Recently a friend called me up, fuming about an acquaintance giving her what felt like a dirty look. “Who the hell does she think she is? I know she thinks she’s better than me!” After she said that she’d been upset all day, I had to ask, “You got all that from a look?”
This is a disproportionate response, especially for an acquaintance who in the grander scheme of things, means nothing to her life. If you don’t feel like you want to let anyone get away with anything, you may find that you have a lot of mental drama going on, never mind run-in’s with family, friends, dates, people on public transport, Facebook ‘friends’, telemarketers and basically anyone that gets in the line of fire.
When you have extensive experience of your boundaries being crossed and feeling like people have ‘gotten away with it’, when you finally recognise the importance of boundaries, it’s not unusual to become sidetracked with patrolling your ‘perimeter’ and getting any and all trespassers.
It’s like taking a precautionary measure of tackling all issues big and small – you’re not letting anything go which means ruminating and/or taking them to task.
When you haven’t resolved your feelings around these past experiences and behaviours, it can leave you feeling reserved, on guard, and in a defensive position ready to attack. The resulting mental and physical drama can be exhausting.
Several years ago, I went on a boundaries rampage, telling anyone who remotely pissed me off all about themselves. I became hypersensitive, seeing criticism even when there wasn’t, or not being able to take any feedback. A few friendships nearly ended and I in essence, had a short fuse. Always privately stewing about the latest injustice, I’d play conversations back in my head, work out what I would and should have said under slightly different circumstances, or plan my next move.
I was making up for lost time – it was payback and I was making sure that nothing was left ‘unexpressed’ and that my voice was ‘heard’.
Much of my behaviour stemmed from me being focused on what I felt were my own failings in regards to my boundaries. I felt so invalidated that being angry and taking people to task or even cutting them off made me feel valid and could even cater to this idea that I was a victim – it righted what I felt were the wrongs of my past.
But the one thing I learned from it, is that riding everyone else’s arses like Zorro will not correct any previous boundary crossings, especially if in doing so, you end up disrespecting others also.
When you’re policing people and ready to strike, you’re mentally taking off your earrings and rolling up your sleeves ready for battle.
People who carry anger and feel like they have to ‘defend’, invariably end up being angry and defending.
People who carry around a feeling of not being good enough, invariably find reasons to feel not good enough.
Unless something is really big because the person matters greatly, it’s code red or amber behaviour, or is one in a long line by the same person (which is a sign you need to cut the line), it’s likely disproportionate to invest so much of your mental and physical energy that it impacts on your personal wellbeing or your ability to enjoy your life.
It’s good, great in fact, that you have boundaries, which are actually fundamental to your wellbeing, but they’re there, to not only alert you to your limits, to when something is inappropriate, you’re uncomfortable, or that you’re in fact, in a dangerous situation, but to actually offer you some helpful hints, clues, and yes, sometimes a proverbial smack in the face, about how you need to shift your perception of someone, adjust your behaviour next time, distance, protect, or opt out.
Boundaries are for you not for other people.
Sometimes your boundaries are saying “Molly… [or whatever your name is] you in danger girl”.
“Jeez, you really need to stop pumping them up and affording them so much importance in your life.”
“Haven’t you got more important things to think about or do than invest your time and energy in getting bothered about this bullshit?”
“Please take care of me and stop running me down with your negative self-talk. If you stopped doing it, no matter what others say, you’d be rock solid.”
“They just said this about you – is this true? No? Well that’s all that matters.”
“Didn’t this crackerjack pull this shite the last time you were with them? Address this situation either by speaking up or distancing, but address it.”
“I know you like a bit of relationship/drama crack but surely there’s no way in hell you’ll be coming round here again?”
“Right, the next time they call to moan for hours on end, end the conversation after ten minutes by saying that it’s not a good time. Better still, let it go to voicemail.”
“Well if that’s how they feel, they needn’t expect to see you around here any time soon.”
“The next time they say something like that or the next time you speak, ask ‘What did you mean when you said [repeat what they said] to me?’…”
“You know you need to block/de-friend ’em right?”
“You’re tired and letting your anger with X affect your day. That’s why you’re so angry at that person that sat too close/farted/didn’t say excuse me when they got off the train. Make sure you take some time out to take care of yourself.”
“You’re feeling small – you do know that you don’t have to give them or whatever they’ve said or done so much power? Embrace you!”
“Do you like and love you? Well then why are you internalising this bullshit? Shake it off! Get up!”
“Please push your Mental Flush Handle and exit this situation.”
“This person is blatantly not bothered/interested – walk!I”
This person has code red issues – time to step.”
If you don’t tell them about themselves, have an argument, request that they explain and apologise, or ‘make’ them change, it doesn’t mean that they’ve gotten away with anything. Experience has taught me that you can go ahead and attempt all of this stuff, but for people who don’t give a damn, are strangers, or who have an allergy to boundaries, it’s a waste of time.
When you do speak to someone about what they’ve said or done, be respectful, make your point, and then let it be. Don’t expect the heavens to open, the seas to part, and for them to throw themselves at your mercy. If after you voice your concern, they repeat the same thing or do worse, it’s time to step or distance yourself.
You’re obviously going to address anything that is critical, but the truth is that if you try to take everyone to task and highlight your boundaries, you will at times look odd. The person who, for example, didn’t say excuse me, might not have seen you or knows they’re rude. Do you need to educate them? Er, no.
This doesn’t make any irritation, discomfort, or anger you feel invalid, just because you haven’t had a confrontation or told them everything that’s on your mind.
It would, for example, be better to move on than call up, text, or email someone you’ve been on a couple of dates with or haven’t even met yet, to tell them off about not calling or something they’ve said – your absence speaks greater volumes.
It’s up to you to decide what’s important – nobody else – but…not everything is important, worthwhile, or if you don’t directly address it, some sort of indicator of you not being good enough or ‘failing’.
Instead of trying to make up for lost time, address your issues and focus on having a healthier relationship with you, which will filter into your other relationships. Boundaries are fundamental and a natural part of living. Policing them isn’t natural – living them through your actions is.
Your thoughts?
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It is strange how these articles seem to hit at just the right time.
I was thinking about my boundaries today, and they’re pretty screwed up, they’ve always been screwed up. Walk into my bedroom at 4am with no warning, sit on my bed and talk about your problems? No bother. Post a slightly inappropriately supportive comment on my facebook wall when I don’t know you very well? I’m not your friend and my hackles will rise whenever I have to talk to you.
This means that I am wasting a lot of energy actively dodging and not-engaging-with and sending ‘Colleague, get thee back!’ vibes to some poor woman at work who actually hasn’t done all that much wrong.
I think I’m doing pretty well at the moment (I met my baby’s father’s girlfriend – the one that he met the minute he became emotionally available again – for coffee the other day AND liked her AND was glad that she was happy with him) but whilst I don’t overpolice my boundaries by getting angry or over-reacting, I’ve pretty much detached from everyone but a teeny tiny small group of people and even then I don’t spend much time with them in case they make me feel uncomfortable in some small and inadvertant way.
I don’t trust my boundaries in the slightest, so I’m just not comfortable engaging with ANYONE right now. The bother is that without human interaction I don’t have very much to base my boundaries on so I still haven’t really sorted out what they are, or at least what they look like in real life. Does anyone know how you get past this, please? It’s like being a ghost.
Hi Yoghurt, maybe if you reread the BR posts on boundaries until you start to embody the feeling instead of it just being a concept, that might help.
It’s often very common when changing a behaviour that is out of balance to go to the other extreme side, which is what this post is basically talking about.
Or, as I’ve been doing since finding BR, avoiding certain things – for me it’s dating – until feeling more secure with new learned behaviour. It is a transition period after all, and so it’s not unusual to feel ungrounded while making changes – I mean it would be great if we could just hop skip the process and make changes instantly.
So go easy on yourself! Talk a deep breath and just pay attention to things that constitute boundary busting (reread posts) and try to relax into it. I have made this transition quite easily but I definitely struggle with other transitions – we all have our ouch places that are scarier than others.
You’ll get there.
Hi Oriana, I think if more people took a break from dating for 3-6 months and actually used the time to nurture themselves, work through lingering issues and more importantly, grieve the previous breakup, there would be a lot less of this unavailable malarkey, especially dating for dating sake and ‘casual’ relationship arrangements. Some readers have taken a year off and really put 100% focus on themselves and the results have been fantastic – it’s an investment. Of course this is very different to taking time off to wallow and avoid life – whatever we do with our time, we must use it productively. Good for you that you are listening to you!
I understand, as I am sure that most of us reading this blog have been where you are at some point in our lives. Immediately after reading your post I started remembering all of those cliches that people spit out. And while they make sense, none of them really help because they don’t give specific instruction on how to get the job done. Nevertheless, I will offer you one: You have to crawl before you walk. All that this means is that you need to start small. You know that you have boundaries, you just don’t have enough practice with enforcing them to feel confident in doing so.
Think about it this way, if we had to learn how to do algebra before we even learned how to add, most of us would have given up due to intimidation because we wouldn’t have even mastered the essentials and fundamentals yet. You have and will undoubtedly overwhelm and discourage yourself if you continue to think that you have to take on this issue without steps in between. Instead of taking this on as a whole, why not break it up piece by piece, or rather step by step. Start with the basics.
You enforce boundaries all the time without missing a step. But they’ve probably been engrained into you for so long that you don’t even realize that you do it. You really should channel into those so you use that confidence to enforce the others that you feel not so confident about. I have found that it is sometimes best to work on one particular boundary at a time, a no brainer that is probably on everyone’s list, one that kind of goes without saying. Make it one that makes sense, but that you’ve never questioned. Find out why such a simple boundary is set in place for yourself, or why the opposite doesn’t work for you. For example, I love friendly/polite people. Experiences with the opposite have a tendency to put me on guard. I love when someone says excuse me when he/she almost runs into me. I love when a coworker asks my permission before using my supplies. Does it kill me when these things don’t happen? Hell no, it may at the most get under my skin for a minute or two, but more than likely I just address it or keep it moving. But when they do happen, I appreciate those moments because I know that I am being treated in a manner in which I feel I deserve to be treated. As well, they are actions that I am also willing to put out there. Just one example, but once I found out what my no brainer boundaries were and realized that I was confident in enforcing them, I had the courage to tackle some of the boundaries that I didn’t have much practice with enforcing.
I know it may feel safer to shut yourself out from the world right now, but what you’re really doing is shutting yourself away from a piece of yourself in the process. By not interacting with others on a more personal level, you’re depriving yourself of the opportunity to learn more about yourself, who you really are, and the world around you. Right now, fear is guiding you and keeping you away from what you don’t want. It’s understandable, I’ve been there. But in reality, you’re allowing yourself to live an inauthentic life by not being honest with yourself about what you truly need. There’s a reason why they say that you have to take the good with the bad, it’s because we don’t really have as much control as we think over either, and both are rewarding in their own ways. Take baby steps, and have faith that you’ll get to that place where you’ll be confident enough to seek out the life that you want for yourself, because you deserve it.
PS- Watch this video, it indirectly relates but I’m sure that you will be able to get something out of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCvmsMzlF7o
Excellent comment Lia, excellent. “By not interacting with others on a more personal level, you’re depriving yourself of the opportunity to learn more about yourself, who you really are, and the world around you.” was my favourite part. I was writing about this whole issue of avoiding bad earlier, and what we don’t realise is that in the quest to avoid experiencing any ‘new pain’, we miss out on experiencing new happiness and other great things that happen in life.
Life in itself isn’t all good or all bad, so there’s no point trying to shut ourselves out of it – the more personally secure we are makes it easier to handle situations, which helps to lessen the bad.
Hi Yoghurt,
I’ve found that if identifying and staying true to your boundaries is something that you need to work on (and it is, for me) there is no shortage of opportunities for practice– it’s just part of daily life and interpersonal interactions at work, with family and friends, and with strangers too. I am learning to listen to my gut, not second guess myself or override my discomfort etc. for the sake of seeing things through someone else’s eyes. I’m also learning to figure out what I want to do about it if I feel angry/uncomfortable/hurt/disrespected by something or someone. Instead of just reacting, I’ve gotten better at sitting with the feeling, identifying where it came from, and doing something about it, in a way that is aligned with my values and what I want for myself. There’s a positive feedback loop that comes from acting in my own best interests– I’ll address an incident in a way I feel proud of, then the next time I feel my boundaries have been crossed I have more confidence about a) it not being my fault and b) my ability to take care of myself. It’s feeling violated, but not paying attention, or paying attention but not doing anything about it that eats away at one’s self esteem.
Yoghurt,
I’m going through the same kind of thing right now. I’m VERY wary of people as my boundaries continually get disrespected. I’m also struggling with being an introvert in the proper sense of the word -not shy or depressed or weird, I just get drained by social interaction and need lots of time alone to recharge. To many in society this is WRONG to want. In addition I have a disability that also drains my energy. I seem to be unable to get people to understand that my energy needs budgeting and that I can’t be there for them whenever they demand it.
I’ve started enforcing my boundaries and woo aren’t the false friends dropping like flies! It’s hard not be rattled and to tune out the little voice that starts to wonder if it’s all me, all my fault and people don’t respect my boundaries as I’m not worthy. But I had an epiphany the other day – I realised that, hang on, I’m NOT worthy of respect from them, but I AM useful enough whenever they want to relieve their boredom, vent, need a shoulder to cry on etc. So, therefore it can’t be that I’m 100% bad, cos if I was then they wouldn’t associate with me at all.
I just keep rereading all the posts here, and searching the web for phrases that help me maintian my boundaries without rolling over or exploding. Staying calm is a problem….I start to panic when I’m pushed and then I explode. A few of the sites I found said that some people will always react badly to boundaries, so to expect it, and that that’s OK….their reaction is THEIR problem, my problem is just ensuring my bundaries are kept intact. That was a bit of a revelation to me. I thought successful boundary setting meant people would respect you first time, every time, and if they didn’t the problem was with ME.
I really liked what Izzybell wrote abut listening to your gut and not overriding it for the sake of seeing things through someone elses eyes. I’ve always tried to step into others shoes, but it frequently gets me used. And learning to decide what to do when I’m uncomfortable instead of just reacting. That was really good too.
I agree with what everyone wrote. It takes time to learn new ways. I think you’ll get there Yoghurt, and with the help of this amazing site, I reckon I will too!!
Stay strong!
Still Standing,
Look up ’empath’ on line and see if this fits your personality type. I have similar traits like being drained by people and liking time alone. Knowing it is a personality type helped me accept it and not feel like a freak. Hope it helps you too.
Hi Jennynic, thanks for the link you gave Still Standing on empaths…very enlightening.It’s enabled me to put together some pieces of my own jigsaw today. My early career, in twenties and thirties involved me facilitating a lot of groups, 4 working days out of five. Positively, it left me with a great sense of non verbals I was great at picking up ‘what wasn’t being said’,processing group dynamics for the group. I also went home drained a lot of the time from the emotional fallout of others. I realise that I was often setting boundaries for them in group work…but ignoring my own limits! Pretty hypocritical really.
If I compound this with my childhood stuff, the need to bring control to chaos, the Florencing tendencies. I can see how I constantly disregarded my own needs , health and wellness. Ironically, I had a good reputation for being able to cope with a wide range of group situations, almost like a troubleshooter… I just didn’t come into equation at all! My ego was fed by their progress.
Am balancing this equation just now for a healthier future…thanks again.
Thanks for the tip from me as well, ’empath’ sounds so much nicer than ‘socially inept’ 🙂 which is what I thought I was
I also get drained by social situations and need a lot of time to recharge/digest. I also noticed a long time ago that I’m at my best in one-to-one situations and can’t really cope with a group of more than three. If I’m in a party or large group I either closet myself off with one or two people or else feel overwhelmed and anxious, clam up and shut down.
I also struggle to cope with people that I perceive as ‘fake’ in any way, shape or form, which actually manifests as not being very good at small-talk and the initial introductory phase of meeting new people.
Looking back, I think that one of the worst things to come of my entanglement with the Ex-EUM was that it sent my bullshitometer haywire (probably because he meant everything that he said, he just only ever meant it for about two minutes at a time). Without that, I feel as though there’s a wide-open door straight inside my head that anyone can walk through. Uncomfortable.
Hi Yoghurt – What you have to listen to is that you’re also not able to trust yourself. It’s a chicken and egg situation though because you’re only going to trust yourself and the boundaries, if you set the boundaries, which lets you trust that you are acting in your best interests. It’s also interesting that you can set boundaries publicly but not privately, as well as for minor but not major conflict. You also paint yourself into a corner by starving yourself of human interaction which acts as a means of preventing you from having to trust – you and others.
This gives you basic code amber and red behaviour https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/understanding-code-red-and-code-amber-behaviour-in-dating-and-relationships/
This helps you understand your levels of discomfort https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/understanding-the-levels-of-boundaries-and-discomfort-working-your-way-from-low-level-to-dangerous/
Boundaries in real life looks like saying NO, even in the face of potential conflict. It looks like setting a limit. It looks like knowing what does and doesn’t feel good. It’s what people do day in day out. I dare you to nip around to one of your neighbours houses and sit on their bed at 4am – you’d be lucky if they didn’t attack you and if you were in a country where guns are allowed, you might be shot. It’s called having an intruder. If you don’t so much as flinch at that, something about these situations is *normal*. It’s either that, or you in some weird way, the fact that they’re sitting there telling you there problems at such an extraordinary hour in such an inappropriate situation makes you feel needed and special.
Boundaries looks like all of the things that you recognise went far beyond your call of duty. They’re things you know you should have said NO to, that were dangerous, disrespectful and devaluing. They’re things that in retrospect you recognise as causing you shame, regret, and embarrassment. It’s always important to remember that as we are not fresh out of the womb, it’s not like we need to ‘make something up’ to work out what has pissed us off and busted our boundaries – you have a life resume to work from.
That gave me food for thought – thank you Natalie.
I am puzzled by the middle-of-the-night issues, they never bothered me. It bothered me that I was good enough to go to in the middle of the night but not in broad daylight (where someone might SEE), it bothered me that even he didn’t think that it was acceptable but carried on doing it, it bothered me that he was turning up at ridiculous o’clock after getting kicked out of a club at closing-time and rocking on to a takeaway for a dirty kebab and THEN getting a taxi. But the actual factual waking me up didn’t bother me at all. Even now, it doesn’t bother me that much to think about.
I was all ready to admit that I’m an attention-seeker who likes to feel special enough to visit at 4am (which I think is part of it) but then I remembered that, during my previous six-year relationship with a borderline-alcoholic it was absolutely normal for him to rock in totally hammered at 4am, knock something big over and then wake me up to talk about whatever was on his mind. I’m starting to realise that this relationship messed my boundaries up in more ways that I’d care to realise.
The other thing that I’ve realise is that I need to be stricter with setting boundaries for myself. I’m dreadful at going to bed at a sensible time – I spent years working in pubs and not getting home until 3 or 4am myself. I left my door unlocked because I don’t have anything worth stealing and I didn’t bother getting anything worth stealing because I don’t want to lock my door (it’s worth pointing out here that I live in the lowest-crime area in the UK, also that elementary personal security has rocketed since having a baby).
The bottom line is that I’ve been treating myself like someone who isn’t worth caring about for years and years and years. And then I wonder why other people don’t much care about me either?
It was very uncomfortable, and like you said, you can feel like a ghost and that no-one cares about you. Maybe you feel hurt or hypersensitive. I had spent so much time on online dating sites/IM/facebook/dating as a vocation that my life had become very unbalanced.
My solution was to go to a psycologist and start working through all the issues from the beginning, by telling them I thought I had a pattern of bad (non) relationships. I found more baggage than I ever thought I ever had (shocking – I never thought I had ‘baggage’) and started forcing myself to go out on Friday/Weekends. In time I made lots of new friends who actually spend more time with me than almost any of the dates I’ve ever been with!
Boundaries get stronger by enforcing them and practicing their use, but also knowing when things are so trivial that it’s not worth rolling out the cannon. For example, it used to irritate me to no end that I’d send invitations to things on facebook or through text and I’d get no reply- rude! It used to really upset me, now I think ‘they’re just a friend’, and if this keeps up, I’ll get make new ones…
Thank you for all the replies, lovely people, I am very grateful. It helps to know that, to an extent, it’s normal to hide for a little while whilst I lick my wounds and sort my head out. It also helps to know, though, that sooner or later I need to push out of my comfort zone and get back in the saddle, so to speak.
I do have good, nice friends that I will periodically spend time with, but it’s easy to talk myself out of it because I’m afraid that they’ll look down on me for being such a flake and having such a messy disorganised life.
I’ve also realised that I need to sort out my messy disorganised life, cook myself some proper meals, go to bed at a reasonable hour, get some exercise and keep on top of the laundry. This feels – in addition to being deeply uninteresting 🙁 – extremely overwhelming, like I can’t do it. But that’s ridiculous – if I can cook nice meals and wash clothes and have a routine for the baby (who lives a very contented, well-organised life) AND do a difficult job fairly well, then how come I can’t get my arse into gear for myself?
Having thought it over for the last few days, I’ve realised that my boundaries are fairly well in place. A few weeks ago I went out with one of my nice friends, and a bloke that I know slightly informed me that he had a girlfriend before being touchy-feely, making suggestive comments, getting my number (ill-advised move on my part in giving it to him) and texting me constantly that night and in the morning.
In the old days I’d’ve carried on the correspondence, either from guilt, or for the sake of a new ‘friend’ or because I thought that ‘we had a connection’ or somesuch rubbish. This time, I thought about it, realised that the situation was giving me the heebie-jeebies (specially as he ‘hadn’t really done anything wrong’, the battle-cry of the mindfucker) and just went NC.
So I can do it. I have to say, though, that this site and the lovely people who take the time to reply have been an absolute godsend in helping me sort out these issues. Thank you again.
I’ve shared a lot of BR links and sayings on facebook, almost like a signal to all my facebook friends that ‘I’m not that person anymore’. One of my friends told me that posting so much I was showing that I was bitter (of course I was).
It is like I want to test out my alarm/electric fence system now.
You can see a similar thing if you are into online dating (took mine down) where there are profiles that scream “no games/don’t waste my time/I KNOW if things don’t make sense/If you are a cheater or a liar I will be on to you” and it just makes their profile look like some kind of emotional venus fly trap.
Now I’ve stopped posting BR links to my FB page as it is Those Who Doth Protest Too Much. It has been four days since I bumped into the Assclown and finally was able to crystallize the gains from the No Contact period of 8 months.
I’m happy.
@ tired
“…it just makes their profile look like some kind of emotional venus fly trap.”
I knew a girl who posted intimate details on FB (wth?) of her emotional turmoil as she dealt with separating from her husband. One day she posted the definition of “whore” (he was cheating). The venom was just spewing off the page. I get that she was hurting and needed support, but it was uncomfortable to read. IMHO, something so private should be shared with intimate friends and/or a professional counselor, certainly not posted on FB. Sadly, it just made me want to avoid her rather than come to her aid. She was scary.
Sometimes we don’t just want to police the boundary but we want to do the equivalent of public hanging / public zapping by posting all the details on FaceBook!
It’s like: I have boundaries, someone crossed them, and look, I ZAPPED them! Ha-ha!
So true, tired, but in the meantime, who privately is the “public hanging” really hurting? Rest assured it wasn’t exactly helping her reconcile with her husband and this friend was hoofing it out of hate city.
Natalie’s right; policing is important but branding with the scarlet letter is just too extreme.
On a personal note, If I don’t want to live a lonely life, I can’t push people away because of my own anger.
tired_of_assanova – interesting observation by your friend. Fauxbook is one of those places where you can indeed tell a lot about people by what they post. I’ve seen sides to people, I wish I’d been spared! Good for you on 8 months – woohoo! Keep going!
My daily commute in the rush hour to central London is a lesson in boundaries.
At first, I was TOO timid, and getting barged and shoved around.
Then I was TOO aggressive, getting into fights and arguments.
Now I am mostly relaxed about it. I find that if I bump someone it’s best just to say “sorry” and not try to make out it’s their fault. I learned this from other people (mainly older men I have to say) being very courteous. I guess these guys have been doing it a long time.
It may sound like a small thing but aggro on the trains/tubes used to ruin my day.
What’s really changed isn’t so much what I do, but how I feel about myself. I feel part of the commuting community, rather than an outsider who’s getting (literally) trodden on). I am part of the City, making the money (or, more accurately helping others make the money) that will get this country out of recession. I no longer feel that people are overlooking me or mistreating me because I’m small and chinese.
Healthy boundaries start with feeling generally positive about yourself, it’s not about checking off a huge list of do’s and dont’s – that’s too stressful and its not very natural either. It becomes organic when you’re happier with yourself.
Having a SOLID sense of who you are and really liking who you are. Knowing that what anybody else does and thinks or says changes nothing about you or your worth. I imagine a solid pole in the center of me, grounding me. No matter what obstacles may arise, I may sway, but I won’t fall down. And there is an invisible barrier between me and others that can’t be penetrated by their thoughts or opinions of me, or by circumstances around me. I will still be who I am and JUST FINE despite. And I really work at trying to stay positive as well. And, very importantly, I try to imagine that others have the SAME barrier and respect that they are separate with their own thoughts, feelings, opinions, ideas, and whatever may be going on with them as well. That helps me with boundaries.
Lo J, I that really speaks to me, I will be pinching that thought if I may 🙂
“I imagine a solid pole in the center of me, grounding me. No matter what obstacles may arise, I may sway, but I won’t fall down. And there is an invisible barrier between me and others that can’t be penetrated by their thoughts or opinions of me, or by circumstances around me. I will still be who I am and JUST FINE despite.” Excellent Lo J – that’s unconditional love of yourself, plain and simple. You stay you regardless and don’t internalise any of this stuff.
grace,
I love that you brought up commuting! I live in Los Angeles and battle the dreaded 405 freeway on a daily basis to get to and from work. ‘Battle’ can truly be the best verb to describe it some days. For years, I’d get so pissed off when anyone would dare cut me off in their car; I’d mad-dog them – chase them down in my own car and give them dirty looks, or cut them off as “payback.” How ridiculous. Truth is, like you said, I’m part of a community of people going to work day in and day out as a functional member of society, doing my due diligence for our country and economy, as is everyone on that road. Chances are, many of them are miserable at their jobs, so their actions aren’t overtly meant toward me as a person. Most likely, these rude folks just have other stuff on their minds and they’re just trying to keep their heads above water – driving courteously being the least of their thought process.
Everyone is fighting a battle of some sort. And if I keep that thought in my head, it makes the unintended abuse far more tolerable. I can have compassion on them rather than cuss them out with my horn. And, I just turn up the radio and sing that much louder.
Loved this Ninja Biscuit (and your name is v cool too). We see some real crackerjacks on the M25 and around London. But it really isn’t about you, or us – it’s about them. While some things are personal, not all things are critical. It’s not that we won’t still get pissed off about some of these things, but we’ll give it a minute, ten minutes even and then be done instead of a whole day. I hear people talking about some motorway injustice that happened several days back – you think “Hello! Haven’t you got more to occupied your mind?!”
Grace, that example was brilliant, thank you!
Totally agree re public transport Grace – for me London and NY are prime examples of it. In the original version of this post, I mentioned how you can tell a lot about how much people want to ensure they don’t let people get away with anything by the way they behave in public when travelling – trains, car etc. A few years back, every week for a few months, I witnessed physical fights between passengers on South East trains. I’m guilty of letting the agro ruin my day or at least a morning – then one day I saw my kinesiologist looking at me as if I were on crack as I griped about some crackerjack on the tube and I suddenly realised how ridiculous it was to stress my body out over this BS.
“What’s really changed isn’t so much what I do, but how I feel about myself. I feel part of the commuting community, rather than an outsider who’s getting (literally) trodden on). ” Totally – it’s all about how you see yourself.
I kid you not – I used to have some sort of “Oh no they didn’t!” drama happening a few times a week – now, it’s very occasional.
“Now I am mostly relaxed about it. I find that if I bump someone it’s best just to say “sorry” and not try to make out it’s their fault. I learned this from other people (mainly older men I have to say) being very courteous. I guess these guys have been doing it a long time.”
Had a few experiences recently about getting around busy London.
I had a guy recently who cut in front of me in the escalator, and then was really nice about it. He just said “I’m so sorry, that was so rude, it’s so crowded down here and I just didn’t think”. He was older too, and just lovely. Made me realise a bit of a charm goes a long way.
One time, I got really upset where a woman stood up in the rush hour, from the seat next to where I was stood on on the tube. I then sat in the vacant seat and she glared at me. I took off my headphones and she told me she’d stood up for her boyfriend who was stood somewhere else. She also told me that he’d carried her bags as if he deserved the seat.
I stood up, and let him have the seat and apologised to her.. realised after it had got to me because it all reminded me of being a kid, being told off and ignored and feeling ashamed because I felt I’d done something wrong. At that point, realised it was time to stop and realise it wasn’t a personal battleground…. she was an idiot control freak. But I let it upset me for 2 days. 2 frigging days wasted!
I also started thinking time to think differently when in a queue, a tourist was standing slightly out of line and I barked at her “are you in the queue?” as I was worried someone else would jump in front. She was so nice, said that she was but would I like to go in front. I apologised to her and said I must have sounded abrupt and she was nice.
I am finding it hard to re-adjust though.. but it’s time to let it go as I was starting to make myself stressed with the busy journeys on the tube.
Ladies, I’m the tourist from So Cal who doesn’t have a clue about public transportation….tubes? red lines? green lines? I was with my daughter on the East Co. this summer and I was stunned. I probably bumped into you. So sorry. Lights turned green at the red line and everybody knew which way to go but me. I bumped into many folks. My daughter, bless her soul, took me kindly by the arm and apologized cos I went the wrong way. Public transportation is entirely interesting. I’m proud my daughter figured it out but I was probably the lost tourist who didn’t know if I was in the queue. It wasn’t about you. It’s cos I drive freeways not tubes or red/green lines. Wait’ll you drive a So Cal freeway at rush hour!
Sometimes you get a funny look because somebody – literally – has a hair up their butt, or is about to sneeze, or something. We have to realize, it ain’t all about us, all the time.
And even if somebody *is* trying to tick us off – I like the sign I found on Pinterest, about how you don’t have to attend every argument you’re invited to. We can defend our boundaries just fine by refusing to engage.
“Sometimes you get a funny look because somebody – literally – has a hair up their butt, or is about to sneeze, or something. We have to realize, it ain’t all about us, all the time.” Amen The Writing Goddess. It’s not even about us *most* of the time.
“I like the sign I found on Pinterest, about how you don’t have to attend every argument you’re invited to.” Love it and must track it down. I know some people who would have a fight with a paper bag given half a chance – we’ve got to learn to wind our necks in!
“People who carry anger and feel like they have to ‘defend’, invariably end up being angry and defending.
“People who carry around a feeling of not being good enough, invariably find reasons to feel not good enough.”
I love this quote. It reminds me of a realization I had a few years ago about an “angry friend.” In the end, I had to let that friendship go because she always needed something to be angry about.
But from realizing this about her, I found that, back then, I was doing the same thing with shame, constantly creating things to feel ashamed of in my life.
-Clay
“But from realizing this about her, I found that, back then, I was doing the same thing with shame, constantly creating things to feel ashamed of in my life.” Brilliant insight Clay. When I wanted reasons to believe I wasn’t good enough and to feel ashamed, the reasons were there. Quite a few of those things still exist – it’s me who has changed how I see myself and them.
Also my ma, bless her, does love a good moan, drama and being pissed off. One day, a couple of years back. I realised that in more than three months, there hadn’t be one phonecall out of many, where it was just “Hey…how are you? I’m good”. It’s draining. I had to stop it for my own sanity!
I know all abut that Natalie, sadly – one of my sisters does it; I can’t remember a single phone call in more than ten years that has bee anything but a one-sided tirade of her woe is me, lucky white heather negativity. There’s always a problem and NEVER a solution. She doesn’t want solutions – she doesn’t even register me as a person on the other end of the phone; when I say something she doesn’t ‘hear’ me. I swear I could go off and cook a three course meal, eat it and come back to the phone and she’d never know I’d been gone. It is truly draining – I find myself very depressed after she phones – and she always says she’s only on for a minute… two hours later and my ear is actually sore and my head’s bustin’. I only lend my ear now until I feel my anxiety (or anger) rising then I get off the phone even if I have to be very rude – I can say ‘I need to go now’ thirty times and more but she doesn’t ‘hear’ me. Some people are so goddam oblivious to how their endless moaning, whining and negativity affects the person who is on the other end of it. Typical opener:
her: how are you?
me: not to bad…
her:(…. interrupting); I’ve had the week from hell…
(then every detail of the week from hell will follow – until one of you loses the will to live: me.)
Natalie, how on earth do you manage to get the timing so right? Two friends had a massive boundary-bitching sesh on fb today. Hilarious actually. But both bitter, argumentative with crazy, disenchanted love lives and severely low self-esteem, emotionally unavailable themselves (as a result of being with EU people) and both attacking (where there’s attack there is pain). They were trying to give eachother relationship advice (oh dear) and it all fell apart basically. Ahhh those facebook dramas! Anyway, I’ve just shared the link. But yes, brilliant, I had wondered about being too extreme with setting boundaries, as it’s normal to cross over and be too zealous about something you’re trying to get to grips with, until one finds the balance. So far, so good…I’m not being too zealous, but then it’s still baby steps (it feels like) with the boundary thing! I have to keep reminding myself & testing how I feel about situations, events, people, etc; it’s not automatic.
Sugarblade – it is scary what people do on Facebook. It’s like some people have lost their minds – they were like two fisherwomen!
Boundaries is something that gets better and stronger through living and experiencing – you can’t experience the benefit of your judgement and your decisions, if you never judge situations or make decisions, which is what boundaries involve. Mistakes are there to teach us so really, either way, as long as we have healthy boundaries and even have to go over the top to get to our middle ground, so be it.
Great post! I haven’t been so much telling people about themselves as of late, but am I on “high alert”? Yup, I’ve come to realize that I am. Recently I was watching one of the final episodes of The Sopranos where Tony is hiding out in a safe house because of approaching goons. The final image is of him lying in bed with a rifle strapped across his chest, just staring at the door and waiting for the onslaught. Metaphorically, that’s kind of what I’ve been doing!
In the past I had a bad habit of getting upset about worst case scenarios that haven’t actually, you know, HAPPENED or may never happen. Mainly, I’d apply it to work/money/getting a zit on my forehead, but now it’s seeped into how I look at relationships. I think that after years of some strangely optimistic thinking about assclowns I’ve dated, I’ve now gone a little too far over to the pesimistic side. Lately I’ve had to give myself a major kick in the arse and say, “Natasha, get over yourself. You have boundaries to keep out douchebags, not a hit squad. If someone is rude/mean/useless, you’re not going to shrivel up on the spot. Lighten up.”
Haha! (to the hit squad!) Love it! My sister conveyed something similar to me the other day when I was telling her how I met a guy. Before I went into any details, she said, ‘Whatever you do, Elle, don’t act like you have to be in this, that you don’t have options, and that you wouldn’t make a hard decision and leave if you had to. And don’t create a situation where you can’t leave with kindness and grace, where it has to be blown up and torched to the ground.’ I was all (ahem), ‘Well, OK then. Fair play.’
She knows that I am only just getting out of hypervigilance phase – where I have been using my list of boundaries as a cricket bat, sometimes even just to hit people for things that aren’t about important values – like kindness etc – but bad habits or different ways of speaking (misuse of new knowledge, I know.
The more experiences I have, the more I truly believe in the state preference-watch for response-walk-away if necessary. But it has to be walking away with grace, as my sister says, not in this kind of ‘You didn’t behave as I expected/fantasized about/demand so I am out of here’ dramatic way which, as Nat says, is just way too tiring and pretty arrogant actually. It is so true that boundaries are for us, not to go round as some comical character….The Enforcer.
You will be fine Natasha! With all this growth and knowledge, you won’t even get to the point where someone’s poor treatment of you could floor you. It probably won’t even hurt you. It will just register as something that is not right for you and you’ll do something about it.
“The hypervigilance phase.” Funny. Its neat that you took that observation from your sister so well. You must be getting past it. 😉 My friend last night told me how I was crossing boundaries at my job and being manipulative (as perfect as I’d LOVE to think I am … *cringe*) and she was spot on. And you know, I was able to take that “criticism” if you may, and see it for the truth that it was, and not a ruffle was fluffed nor a hair stood on end. And, I left my cricket bat (though in the US it would be a baseball bat) under the bed. Even if she weren’t correct with her analysis, (FYI, her opinion and thoughts were completely welcomed … she wasn’t crossing boundaries with her ideas on the matter), I would hope that I could have heard her words and not taken it personally.
When I think about this subject, which I have a lot since Nat’s post, I think of how we reach out for EXTERNAL sources to make us happy and to validate us, expecting or even manipulating others to make us feel “OK”. That’s when those boundaries are crossed. For example, the “innocent” flirting with a married man, the telling off the coworker who bad mouthed my job performance, etc. If I were “rock solid”, I wouldn’t want the inappropriate attention of the married man. I’d know I was hot stuff without his suggestive remarks. Likewise, I wouldn’t have to tell the coworker all about her. She didn’t like what I did? So WHAT? I know I did a good job. I did the best I could. It is HER problem. My job performance not up to her standards? She can do HER OWN job to her standards. Live and let live.
We cross boundaries unknowingly all the time. Its good, though to have perspective and to be able to see when that happens, to FORGIVE ourselves when we do, and to FORGIVE others when they do. (When they are minor infarctions of course!!) We are only human.
“The more experiences I have, the more I truly believe in the state preference-watch for response-walk-away if necessary. But it has to be walking away with grace, as my sister says, not in this kind of ‘You didn’t behave as I expected/fantasized about/demand so I am out of here’ dramatic way which, as Nat says, is just way too tiring and pretty arrogant actually.” Amen Elle. There’s just nothing graceful in telling people about themselves or all the other drama. I’ve done enough of it to know that there’s no way in hell I will go there anymore – I’m not raising grown people! Your sister is also very wise – take those words to heart and live them!
-good one- 🙂
**Lately I’ve had to give myself a major kick in the arse and say, “Natasha, get over yourself. You have boundaries to keep out douchebags, not a hit squad. If someone is rude/mean/useless, you’re not going to shrivel up on the spot. Lighten up.”
Note to myself! Beautifully said Natasha. Words I will be reminding myself of again and again. I am emotionally on high-alert these days… having a rough time around people. Just two weeks of NC after 3 years with my EUM/MM/AC. No wonder I am on edge.
BR is a blessing in my life. Thanks to Natalie and all who comment for the clarity and support in making these much needed changes in my life!
As you start to feel better Jaysky, you can downgrade the threat. It’s hard now understandably, but this too shall pass.
Ho, ho, ho Natalie. I’m certain you are peeking over my back fence or peering down my chimney. Yup, I’ve got my boundary guard dogs on high alert and they are on high alert. It’s like Natasha describes. I seem to be over telling folks all about themselves because it seems I’m mostly telling me all about me. But I’m still falling asleep with a rifle strapped across my chest waiting for the next onslaught. Nice description Natasha.
Since I’ve never had any boundaries, it’s difficult to find the balance. Your suggestion of living boundaries rather than policing them is really helpful. Thank you. It may be more about trusting me than not trusting them. I don’t know where I’d be without you all, other than I’d be Molly…still in danger. Okay. I’ll unstrap the high powered boundary rifle, call off the boundary policing dogs and start to trust me. It sounds scary. It can’t be anymore scary than throwing myself into oncoming traffic as an OW, right? Tomorrow, I venture out into the world as a woman with boundaries and a woman I trust. No boundary guard dogs. Got it. Now it’s time to implement and get over myself.
Hey Runnergirl. I think that the balance issue is a natural part of transcending to boundaries, especially after having little or none. It’s like getting carried away with your ‘new found’ power. Unless you’re a crackerjack, it calms down. The key is not to get scared off when you experience conflict form asserting your boundaries – this happens whether you have balance or not. The key is to be at an honest enough place that even though you’re still figuring this out, that you’ll listen to you and be honest enough to say when you’ve gone too far. We mustn’t forget though – people over assert their boundaries all the time. If you’ve ever had your head snapped off by someone, been told no before you’d finished asking your question, or had a Mr (or Miss) Unavailable run off when the going gets tough, whump there it is.
Natasha…my sister of another mother and father! You and I have been doing the same over and over. Just yesterday I felt that I had my boundaries violated by my own sister and instead of getting all worked up (well…maybe just a little bit) I decided to confront her and tell her how I felt, not how she did wrong by what she did. At the end of the day, I didn’t feel guilty as I usually do because I know I was in my right, and stuck to my boundaries like glue.
With all that said, I do have a history of getting upset over anything pre imagined that hasn’t even happened or events that happened so long ago, but they still make me feel all sorts of emotions. This year I plan on changing that and making things not about others, but about me in a good way. Taking a step back, breathing and realizing…in the end it really doesn’t matter if it’s going to turn you into a hysterical mess. My sanity deserves that much!
@Elle – Ohmygod, “The Enforcer” made me choke on my Diet Coke!! Thank you so much for the encouragement and for reminding me that someone acting like a jackass wouldn’t REALLY phase me that much at this point. I love, “The more experiences I have, the more I truly believe in the state preference-watch for response-walk-away if necessary.” Very, very wise words – I should be stitching them on a sampler to hang in my living room, along with “Elle’s Sister Says Not To Go All ‘Scorched Earth'” 😉
@Yoshizzle – Glad you enjoyed! I always love your comments 🙂
@Jaysky – You are doing great! Early NC is the toughest and I promise you that it will get easier (and easier). A great way to take care of yourself when you’re feeling on edge is to spend as much time as you can with the people you love and trust. Also, do something nice for yourself! You’ve just set out on the path to a whole new life – well done 🙂
@Runner – “I’ll unstrap the high powered boundary rifle, call off the boundary policing dogs and start to trust me. It sounds scary. It can’t be anymore scary than throwing myself into oncoming traffic as an OW, right?” Brilliant, just brilliant. I never looked at it from that perspective and it’s ironic because I didn’t feel half as much fear jumping back into the saddle with an assclown. Ironic, is it not?!
@Karina – Sweet Jesus lady, we really are related haha! I too have a sister that can be, well, a bit of a pain in my ass at times. I love her and she loves me, but sometimes she…oversteps. Sticking to boundaries with family can be even harder I think, because it’s supposed to be all unconditional love, even when you are seriously considering moving to, I don’t know, Iceland just to avoid them 😉 This is genius: “This year I plan on changing that and making things not about others, but about me in a good way. ” Love, love it sister!
I remember that episode Natasha – brilliant and hilarious because it just says it all really! That is what most people experience a great deal of anxiety over – shit that’s not happening yet or is unlikely to happen. If it *were* happening, they’d have to be dealing with it.
The key here is that you are acknowledging what lies beneath – you’re happier, you know the score, but how you feel about you and relationships has a little bit of a way to go. That’s OK – you’re a work in progress. The truth is, your confidence has been greatly knocked. Like the average woman that steps into the light, it’s like “Jaysus! I can’t believe I put myself through this…maybe I’m not as great or as intelligent as I or others have given me credit for.” It’s not that you’re not great or intelligent – sometimes, in fact often, until we are aware of putting our minds, mouth’s and actions in synergy, we let our vaginas and egos rule the roost. We think we know better plus to be honest, it’s like we’d rather have the ‘stain’ of the fuck up rather than the stain of some chump who has taken the piss for far too long on our ‘records’ – we don’t want to admit that they’re not all that special and in fact are treating us in a less than manner and that we’ve accepted it.
As I think Elle pointed out, if something happens Natasha, I *know* you’ll handle it. You’ll spin them out so fast, their feet won’t touch the ground. They’ll be standing in your dust marks when you *walk*. Trust in the process of life and trust in you.
Whatever happens, you’ll live and the sky isn’t going to fall down.
“We think we know better plus to be honest, it’s like we’d rather have the ‘stain’ of the fuck up rather than the stain of some chump who has taken the piss for far too long on our ‘records’”
Oh, SO TRUE! I wasted a lot of time pulling a Lady Macbeth, sitting here going, “Out damn assclown spot!” It’s really silly, because I actually don’t know one person in my life that hasn’t had one bad relationship experience/someone trying to jack with their boundaries. The sky didn’t fall down on their arses either! 😉
I haven’t been over policing my boundaries, if anything, I’ve learned here that many times when I’ve been upset with others, they were actually busting my boundaries and I had every right to be upset. Before I would have doubted myself, backed down, questioned my reaction, etc.
An example is a 30 yr. female friendship. We’re very socially connected with many people from over the years, as well as people in our hood, and we live a street away from each other, so I put up with her female competitiveness, jealousy, digs and snide remarks and other annoying behaviour for a long time, being way too afraid to walk away. Finally she busted my boundaries so badly, in front of a guy I was seeing, that I cut off my friendship with her.
Shortly after that I found BR and it confirmed my position. I finally understood what boundary busting was and why I shouldn’t allow it. And even though initially it was very disturbing with regards to how our social connections would be effected, it was the best thing I’ve done in a long time. It was a big boost to my feeling of self-worth. Even better, I’ve made so many new amazing friends that don’t function on her level. And as for our social circle, well I’ve actually gained some respect. I think if you feel comfortable with knowing your boundaries, most people start treating you accordingly.
So overall I’m not hypersensitive about people busting boundaries, I’m grateful that I’m aware when it happens and can react accordingly. The folks on transit etc. well they’re strangers who cares!! With someone important I will now just shut up and walk away.
Great post. I especially liked the last line “Boundaries are fundamental and a natural part of living. Policing them isn’t natural – living them through your actions is.” Lately I have embraced “actions speak louder than words” and not confronting people over every little issue or thing they have said/done. Unfortunately I was that way for a while, especially with people closest to me. I think it’s because when I was a teenager/college I was quieter, didn’t stand up for myself, people took advantage of me, etc so then as an adult I overcompensated. It’s definitely all a balance – knowing when to stand up for yourself and when to let it (or them) go.
Hi Chelsea – I was, while not quieter, far more of a people pleaser at uni so did much of the same thing. What you learn out of this is that you just have to get on and do it, rather than try to fill the deficit. You know better now – that’s all that matters now.
I appreciate you spelling this out, Natalie, because these very issues have been top of mind for me. I have been the queen of “privately stewing about the latest injustice,” and “playing conversations back in my head.” It’s an unproductive, and even at times dangerous, habit.
For a long while, I had highly sensitive ‘virtual’ boundaries that would get set off but I wouldn’t necessarily take action other than to talk, either to myself or to the (oh-so-easily) offending party. I let the angry ranting take the place of actually doing anything about the information I was getting from the boundary alarm. Now that I know I need to take action beyond words, I have been having to learn what taking action means.
It helps to hear that I can take action within myself and it still “counts” as healthy, for I have felt like if something they do makes ME change MY behaviour then aren’t they, in some way, “winning”? They get to behave their merry old way and I have to make decisions about distancing myself?
Ironically, sometimes people bumping you by mistake, emotionally or otherwise, actually indicates they assume that you wouldn’t be bothered. It’s a compliment that they aren’t treating me like a delicate flower. Of course, when I was daddy-hunting, I was desperate for someone to treat me gently, but confused wanting gentleness and wanting to be treated like a fragile flower who can’t stand the mildest slight. How ironic that I have turned into an angry ranting she-bitch to try to get consistent tenderness.
Want to know what I managed to take as the latest offence? The most recent guy (2 dates), who so far has been uniformly kind and decent, said in an email over the holiday that I had ‘alluringly beautiful eyes’. Seriously – I thought for a moment I should cut off interaction, that he was insulting my intelligence with lame drivel!
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa Magnolia! The absurdity of taking that as an insult worth ditching the guy for … I mean, come on.
So I can see that my defenses are at DEFCON 1 pretty much all the time and yeah, it’s exhausting. Guess that’s why the serenity prayer asks for the wisdom to know the difference between things worth getting bent out of shape about and what not to. These days I’m focusing on the habits of ruminating and taking-things-too-deeply-to-heart, which both usually have me feeling a lot shame and then acting out defensively.
I’m still feeling positive, though, because at the core of a lot of these behaviours is fear, and I know I can keep working on that.
magnolia. That story (about the guy complimenting your eyes) reminded me of a similar thing I did. I went out once w/ a guy I had known when we were around 15, hadn’t seen since, and then last year reconnected w/. We had emailed and talked on the phone a lot before we finally got together. (I was still enmeshed with the EUM mm AC so I was NOT EA but I hadn’t found BR yet and thought getting ‘out there’ was the way to get past the AC). Anyway, we sat and talked for a while and that was that. The next day or so I get an email from him talking about how beautiful my smile is.
Well, I threw a huge fit!! Just like you, I was ready to can him right then and there for “daring” to mention my smile. I felt he had no right to do that, doesn’t know me well enough, etc etc. I felt he was being way too familiar.
??????? At the time, I knew my reaction was crazy and over the top but I couldn’t stop it and I didn’t understand it. Mostly I figured I was defensive because he wasn’t the AC and therefore had no ‘claim’ to me. (stupid I know but that’s where I was).
Now I can see what was going on there. My boundaries were on hyperalert and I tazed him for an innocent compliment.
Live and learn.
“It helps to hear that I can take action within myself and it still “counts” as healthy” – absolutely Magnolia. People put too much emphasis on doing something to others.
This isn’t about winning – the majority of this unproductive stuff that we engage in to ‘win’ has us actually losing. Explaining myself time and again has been demoralising – if I had put half as much effort into myself and action as I did into that, I’d have been far happier.
What are they ‘winning’? It’s not a war or a game. You’re the only person you can control. When your time is up on earth, what would you rather have taken pride in doing – living your life, rising into your potential and being happy or spending your life keeping a profit and loss of People Who Try To Get Away With Shit. It’s demoralising – these people will be who they are with or without you there. The less you make them matter, is the less of an impact they can make on you. Most people who have always been in my life haven’t changed – I have. As a result, they’ve adapted their behaviour or stepped. I also know who I can talk to, who I can’t, who will criticise, who is the passive aggressive one, or who will have a fight with a paper bag. I’ll still be me around these people, but I don’t give very much room to their behaviour so their impact is limited. When you keep trusting the people that can’t be trusted, when you keep talking to the people who don’t understand or want to understand you, when you hang around the people who are always kicking off stuff, of course your boundaries are busted – you’re still acting like everyone else should change.
It’s a lot easier for you to stop giving a shit and do your own thing, than it is to try and change ‘everyone’ or at least everyone that gets on your tits.
There’s a book by don Miguel Ruiz…called “The Four Agreements” and one of them is “don’t take anything personally”. People are literally in their own perceived reality. Most “slights” have very little to do with anyone but the “slight-ER”.
It appears to me that when defending boundaries becomes our new obsession it speaks for itself: we’re obsessed with keeping ppl OUT. When done with anger (at the littlest bump) it shows anger at ourSELVES. Neither display is particularly pleasant and it’s a fake-high. It eventually passes with time and nothing else might’ve changed: we might still be alone, or lonely, or attracted to EUM. It was all a distraction.
I eventually approached boundaries with a bit of common sense…and mainly listening to my intuition. I don’t enjoy confrontation but it’s a lot easier now to say “hey, this is my thing. sorry if you don’t like it, but this is how I roll.” If my very reasonable boundaries aren’t respected, I don’t mind backing off. In fact it’s a relief to just trust my gut and not analyze it to death.
The Four Agreements is great – the Fifth Agreement is a little harder concept to engage. Doubt as your friend not your enemy…
My two sisters had a major fight via email over the weekend about family matters. I hadn’t opened my email yet that day and knew nothing of their tiff till one called me and right after her the other one did to see if I’d seen their messages. After hearing them both vent I read the emails and found both to be childish and non-productive in dealing with the problem. I decided what they really wanted was for me to just take sides, they weren’t interested in my opinion.
I sent an email back to both that said “I’m Switzerland” . The emails came back all bothered that I didn’t take the problem seriously and I should care more about our family. I sent another email with just the flag of Switzerland for the message. I never heard back from either one, I think they got the message.
MaryC
That’s laugh out loud funny.
Email drama is a waste of time. Whether at work or at home, after a few rounds it’s time to pick up the phone and clear the air!
And don’t get me started on texts.
” I sent another email with just the flag of Switzerland for the message. I never heard back from either one, I think they got the message.”
MaryC, that is HILARIOUS! My Mom and my sister have gotten in email fights and, if it happens in the future, I’m just going to send the flag of some random country so they think I’ve fled the scene 😉
p.s. How amazing is the chocolate there?! I need to know.
I had a couple of relatives that used to do this – it used to be like poison letters but I imagine it’s all done by email now. You handled them brilliantly – how juvenile is that behaviour! “I decided what they really wanted was for me to just take sides, they weren’t interested in my opinion.” A-men MaryC. Bit like when we get those fishing around texts and emails – they’re not interested in how you are – they just want to know that you still fancy them.
Timely post. As I wrote some resolutions last night, one of them was “keep my emotions in check… think calm, cool, and collected”. As I’ve grown and learned over the last year or so I’ve found it much easier to keep control of my emotions. A lot of it has been the huge lesson that much of other’s actions are no reflection of me. It’s just them being them. This realization has allowed me to let a lot more things roll off my back, especially at work, and not internalize them as personal attacks against me.
The other day I had to tell a long time friend that I felt she had done something inappropriate and as a result my trust in her had been questioned. Even though I made the decision to tell her, I knew that what she had done was not because she was out to get me. It was because of her own insecurity. But still, it was hurtful and so I knew I had to tell her if we were going to continue to the friendship. Communicating my feelings has always been very hard for me, in the past I would just get pissed or cry and then cut people off. I do think it’s healthy to express boundaries and feelings but in a calm, respectful manner. It’s also healthy to distance yourself from boundary breakers and even cut them off if it’s continual.
Great resolution CC. The key to being honest is being truthful with respect. You did the right thing by saying it to her and I like that you’re astute enough to recognise that it wasn’t about malicious intent but her own insecurities, but at the same time, that it doesn’t change the fact that it’s hurtful and unacceptable, wherever it’s coming from. It’s a lot easier to express ourselves when we’re not operating from “They’re trying to get me” or “I’m not good enough”.
Sorry babbling a lot today, but wanted to add that in the scheme of things it really doesn’t matter what he/she said/did – if you recognize it as a boundary issue that’s all that counts. It helps to not get caught up in the drama of it, the endless details, the should I be upset or not, should I let it go or not, how dare they, etc. It is what it is, crossing your boundaries, easier to just look at it that way. Of course no one can cross your boundaries if you don’t let them.
Approaching it this way you’re not vulnerable, you have the upper hand.
This is such an important distinction, because it IS very easy to go too far in the other direction. While I don’t consider myself hypersensitive (I tend to not notice a lot of of nonverbal cues) I do have a tendency to think it’s all about me. So, if my boss is grumpy, it’s because I screwed up somehow- never mind that she has twenty other employees who might be giving her grief! If my husband is unusually quiet, I start wondering what I’ve done to upset him- it’s almost never anything I’ve done. It’s crazy-making and leads to a lot of unnecessary stress and anxiety.
Over the years, it’s gotten a bit better and I’m now usually able to distinguish between what’s truly a boundary-buster and a person just being a bit thoughtless or uncommunicative. I try to make a distinction between things I have to live with, and everything else. Therefore, a random stranger’s rudeness is no big deal; neither is a casual acquaintance making a thoughtless remark. Neither are difficult family members I only see once or twice a year.
The important boundaries need to be established with the people you live and work with. That’s where continuous bad behavior can really do a number on your self-esteem. I think too many of us tend to worry far too much about the opinion of strangers, or near-strangers. If they’re not someone who impacts your life on a daily basis, their behavior and opinions just shouldn’t matter that much.
I hear you Christina. I always thought it was something to do with me when an ex was quiet or grumpy – I now recognise that I made too much of things about me.
“I try to make a distinction between things I have to live with, and everything else. Therefore, a random stranger’s rudeness is no big deal; neither is a casual acquaintance making a thoughtless remark. Neither are difficult family members I only see once or twice a year.” This is golden and reflects how I see my own life. It’s so much easier this way!
Nat:
“Boundaries are for you not for other people.”
I think this is the thing, isn’t it? Other than EUMs who I think I’m in love with I’m usually okay with boundaries in the sense that I don’t get involved in family squabbles and the like or suffer very drunk people who want to babble a crap conversation at me into the early hours – I just leave and go home! Yep, boundaries are not about putting the world to rights and explaining other people’s shit to them, boundaries are for saving yourself the trouble and strife of other people’s shit.
Fearless, I just wanted to respond to your comment about not having dated in so many years and your concern that something was wrong with you. Like Grace said, you were involved with the EUM and so weren’t available to date…I think when you give your loyalty (as you did) you do not see other men as they simply aren’t on your radar due to the way you are with the one you love. I know that you want to be available to date but from what I’ve read you aren’t really over your feelings for the EUM and that may not happen…who knows…but I wouldn’t rush into anything with anyone new. I mean just think how you spoke with him within the last few months on the work-related thing. He’s still in your head. You are still vulnerable to him and perhaps always will be. If you can become comfortable and find things to do outside of your home then you may meet someone to date BUT I would give it another several months before dating as you are still processing things. Set your boundaries. Know what you will accept and what you will do when they are crossed. You are smart and loving. You are just now developing full use of your knowledge of relationships. Be kind to yourself and know that recovery from the EUM relationship isn’t quite over just because you want it to be. When you are ready you will go out and mingle again. Until then, don’t be concerned that you are still processing. You were involved with the man a very long time in your mind and heart. We don’t heal overnight from physical wounds nor do we recover overnight from loss of our fondest dreams/hopes whether due to ourselves alone or with others. Remember, you were devoted to him and because you were not aware of boundaries and the things that we learn here, you lost yourself awhile. You and I and Grace and any others here may not have another significant relationship in the parnering aspect,but our lives will go on and hopefully be wonderful in any case.
Leisha
Thanks very much for your concern and your kind words. I appreciate. You are absolutely right in everything you said. I can’t fault any of it. No, I am not over the hurt of that relationshit yet, not by a long chalk. I have my positive days but I also have days when I just don’t want to interact with the world at all. I feel I have almost no-one, no , correction – *no-one* in my life who ‘gets me’ (if you see what I mean). I miss lots of things about the ex EUM that I think I clung to so long cos I wasn’t getting these things from anywhere else. I find it hard to articulate what I mean by ‘things’ (but I don’t mean sex).
But I am imposing boundaries on myself which I think are way too rigorous. I do need to make an effort to meet with friends/family and be more sociable, but I often find myself feeling empty and unfulfilled in the company I do keep (mainly a few family members – who I do love, but…!) am usually just glad to get away after a few hours. You are probably right that I am not ready to date yet (I don’t know how to anyway!)… but at my age, I can’t hang around forever and I am also aware of having given over way too much of my potential dating life to the ex arsehole already; I don’t want to impose boundaries on myself because of him or my feelings for him and sometimes the only way to start doing something different is just to start doing it. I don’t see myself launching head-long into another relationship (or shit) anytime soon, so no worries there! But I feel if I don’t start spreading my wings soon, even tentatively and carefully – even just seeking out the kind of company I want to leave the house for, then I am going to end up just dying a long and painful and needless ex EUM death. Maybe it’s just the January blues. I’ll be okay when I start work again next week.
Fearless, I don’t know what to say to you except that I hope you continue to be kind and patient with yourself and not to feel time is running out as a driver to get out before you are truly ready…fire, for me, before BR, it took a decade to recover from my marriage (and if I’d listened to myself I would have walked from that scene very, very, fast but I didn’t…I was in my early 20’s at the time, and I must confess, I took on that relationshit to get over someone and to get close to someone else; my relationshit with the male I married was not something that happened out of love but because of some commonalities and I didn’t want to be alone…boy did I get a lot of learning from that exercise in futility)…after that I entered the relationship that ended up devastating me and it took another decade to recover from it (I had relationshits during both the recovery from the marriage and from the next f-up)…I just know how I am and how attached I have become in the past even when I knew I should back out…the work I’m doing is to prevent myself from becoming invested in those who are unable to give me the trust and time needed to have anything worth the emotional investment that I do make when I am involved. I do this to protect myself. I know the want of someone who “gets you” and it is not sexual( or that much more must be felt to indulge sexually; if you are like me the sex itself is an expression of how you feel and to get nude and be touched by another is an extremely personal act of trust not simply lust)…it is connection that is felt and so hard to describe. It is uncommon and thus when we feel it we find it so devastating to release so I understand and empathise. However, when the cost of the connection is much pain then the connection is ultimately worthless because the other party overall is disconnected in very essential ways from what we need and deserve to have. Do not let fear drive you. Not of age, stage, etc. It is better to be alone than caught up in emotional quagmires with people who are simply incapable for whatever reason of giving us equal time and building and growing a relationship of mutuality and loving care. Refuse to settle. Keep your toolbox handy and you will make the choices that are best for you and which are also best for those you interact with even if they have to learn by losing you.
Runner: You are…
Leisha
Thanks. Sorry you have had such an arduous journey; glad you are all the better for it. I don’t become easily attached to people, believe it or not; it takes a while for me to ‘fall’ for a man, but when I do, I really do. I will keep your good advice in mind. I am not overly concerned about finding a man, what I am mostly noting about myself (in comparison to many others) is actually my disinterest in finding a man / in dating (that what seems like normal to others is an alien concept to me) – or my lack of pro-action about it that others do as a matter of the normal course of life. And I speak for all my life – not just for this difficult period. Believe me, I am not in any imminent danger from men – very far from it – unless the postman turns out to be the axeman! (oooh… maybe I shouldn’t tempt fate – I take that back!)
Fearless, Thanks. For me, letting go, good-bye’s have always been hard as I did get so attached and felt change was possible…before BR I didn’t have the tools I have now REGARDLESS of how much I’d experienced and so kept on having unhealthy relationships that life was teaching me to LET GO OF ALREADY…but no…not me…Florence and Superwoman and the Goddess of HOPE stood ready and willing to fix it all (ignoring my broken parts while fixating on THEIRS)…ah well, better late than never…while not meaning to be deceptive I was and that is something I monitor now very stringently. Boundaries and values and info of the top-line nature…boy, when I do get the info I need to step even after I’m attached…if it’s of an unacceptable nature…that’s probably the next “lesson” I’ll encounter. I’m betting I’ll get an “a” and spin em fast out of my life with or without explanation.Each relationshit I’ve had has taught me and I value them for that. I am not proud of many of my interactions and my behaviors. I am responsible for not repeating them again. I own it all now. As more comes up in memory and experience I acknowledge it. All of my past made me who I am now and the knowledge I’ve gained is priceless. I have sympathy for those I’ve hurt. I hope to not create more hurt. Just 15 years ago I was still “out there” having fun and enjoying socializing. I am now totally different in viewpoint and activities and how I rate what is important to me. Good-bye’s are still hard when I care for someone but I now know better than I did before about so many things and am able to let go knowing the greater power in the Universe takes care of things (myself included) and that we all have our work to do. Mutuality, trust, honesty, integrity, forgiveness, hope, all of these are essential in my dealings with others. I learn who I can trust for what and I learn when I must let go. Today I am different from last year. Today I am different from last week. I keep learning and hoping for the best, but I now know what is in my control and that alone is huge.
Leisha,
I don’t mean to butt in here as you are responding to Fearless however your response resonated with me too. Thank you. “Be kind to yourself and know that recovery from the EUM relationship isn’t quite over just because you want it to be. When you are ready you will go out and mingle again. Until then, don’t be concerned that you are still processing.” Thank you. I really, really want it to be over. Your message is spot on. Thank you for the wise words….helped me a lot today. Still processing.
Yes Runner, I think that is a fair point – that wanting it to be over is not the same as it being over. I bought a ticket onto the ‘get yourself out of here’ journey a year ago last August (August 2010). It’s been a long trip and am unhappy to still be on the same train. It’s been two stops forward, reverse, four stops back again. I think the only thing holding me back now is me. I want to be on a different train now but I need to get off this one so I can buy the new ticket!
I now wonder how much of the boundaries I police to keep people out are actually functioning more to keeping me in. Sometimes I feel frustrated to screaming point with myself that I cannot or will not or don’t know how to take a sledgehammer to my own boundaries and let myself *out*. I think I like to be in total control of my own time and movements and I don’t like feeling ‘obliged’ to go places/functions/nights out etc. if I just don’t feel like it at the time – I worry I will want to leave but am stuck there. Committing too far ahead go to nights out can make me feel hemmed in – committed – so I generally don’t commit to anything; I prefer to wait until the day the thing is on and then see if I feel like going ad if i do, i will, but I don’t like people wanting ‘definites’ from me (also mainly cos I know there’s a good chance I will not be there and make some excuse – and I hate doing that; letting people down; saying I’ll do something and then not wanting to go – it creates anxiety for me). EU or what?!! Lol.
I really need to have a long an honest conversation with myself! I don’t know about anyone else, but I have frequently thought, throughout my adult life: I wish I was someone else. I thought that when I woke up this morning! Perhaps I don’t need to build up more boundaries (other than with potential assclowns and eums – but got those sorted now, theoretically at least); perhaps I need to break some boundaries down – ad the biggest boundary I need to break down and out of is *me*.
Runner:
You are always welcome to comment! You have grown so much! Keep it up!
“boundaries are not about putting the world to rights and explaining other people’s shit to them, boundaries are for saving yourself the trouble and strife of other people’s shit.” One of your best yet Fearless! We have a choice about what we do and don’t get involved in. The sooner we stop acting like we’re victims to other people’s shite, is actually the sooner we stop bullshitting ourselves and the sooner we can get on with our lives and set the terms by which we want to live. Until then, it’s like holding yourself hostage in crap situations – unnecessary!
Fearless,
I’ve felt this myself–not wanting to commit to an upcoming event as you’re not sure how you will feel at the time/don’t want to feel stuck. In addition to saying yes and then not showing up, I think that refusing to RSVP one way or the other can be equally frustrating to the person doing the inviting. Your comment also reminded me of the EU and his unwillingness to plan anything, ever. It wasn’t a good feeling to be on the other side of that (granted, what you describe isn’t on the same level as this, but I think there is still a comparison to be made).
Just my two cents, but I say decide whether or not you want to go and stick with your decision (barring unforeseen circumstances, of course)–it’s one way to work on being more ‘available’ in this life and on being more decisive. I find that sometimes I’m hesitant to go out, but usually enjoy myself once I do. And rather than feeling stuck at some event, why not practice enforcing your will/boundaries by leaving when you see fit?
A
I agree with all you said. I am not a total cow about it – it depends on the type of event. If I tell a friend I’ll meet her for lunch – I give a definitive answer and I show up if I’ve said I will. I don’t stand people up! I am more talking of being asked if I want to join in on something which is not going to die any kind of death cos Fearless didn’t show. I always RSVP invites that come through the post – like for weddings or birthday parties. I am not that rude!
I think my trouble is having to say yes or no right there and then on the phone. For example the other day I phoned a friend to wish her a happy new year and she said ‘why don’t you come down, I am having so-and-so and so-and-so over for lunch; now I know instantly that I do not want to make the 45 minute (each way) drive and that I can’t be bothered getting myself together at such short notice but I am very bad at saying “no, I can’t be bothered – I don’t feel like it”. Is anyone good at that? And I find that unless I come up with a rock solid excuse for why I simply can’t come the friend will harp on, just come, just come. Unfortunately some people just don’t take a straight ‘no, not today’ for an answer and I can’t be bothered with the pressure they then apply. I am aware, as you say, that I need to be more definitive, so I did tell this friend that ‘it was unlikely that I would make it but have a nice afternoon’. I had no intentions of going, but that was the best I could do to avoid a ‘discussion’ about it.
Like you, I usually have a good enough time when I say yes and go – but also, for various reasons, depending on the circumstances, it really is not always that easy just to leave when I want to – I may not have come alone; sometimes I am the driver. (Try telling my mother at some family do, ‘that’s me off then’ and leaving her with no ride back home!) This is what I mean about control of my movements. Sometimes I don’t go to things cos I just know that I will not be able to leave when I want – and I hate being in that position. If I know I can go if I want, not if I don’t want and leave when I want without a fuss, I usually go.
I do get that I have EU issues. I am not defending them – just saying what I think is true about me. But I am not EU like my ex EUM; I would never treat anyone with such neglect and disregard as he has treated me. Never.
Fearless
I’ve had a few last minute invites I’ve turned down, mainly from young people at church. I don’t know them very well, it seems they would like to get to know me more. I feel fraudulent because they probably think I’m their age. I look young for my age oh WOE IS ME. I get on well with the young men – but I see them like my younger brothers. But it would be naive of me to believe that their interest is more than brotherly, so that adds an extra layer of complexity but mainly I just don’t like last minute invites. I detested that when I was seeing the playa but of course I let him get away with it.
All my other friends know very well to give me a min. of 24 hours notice before going out. In fact, one of them once complained when I turned her down “I’m giving you 72 HOURS NOTICE FFS!”. I like the anticipation of going out, I like planning what to wear, do my hair etc. For me that’s half the fun. Just chucking on any old thing and running out the door is not fun for me. It’s kind of a boundary.
Also, I don’t drive so it’s a bit of trouble to get anywhere, I have to look up maps, bus timetables etc.
Still, it probably wouldn’t hurt for both of us to be a bit more flexible in 2012 if we’re not to spend too much time home alone. And it’s not an age thing, I’ve always been like it. But I think pre mobile phones, we planned things in advance a lot more.
Grace:
I get what you’re saying about the ‘young’ men. I’d feel the same. I know people say there are single and available people of all ages who’d be glad to meet someone to date and maybe form a relationship with; this is true, of course, if we assume we are talking globally, or within a whole nation or a whole city – sure, there will be many single, available people of all ages who’d be happy to meet someone. But the reality is that in our everyday lives, in the limited circles (socially and geographically) that most ‘normal’ people inhabit and move about in, we do not come across that many single, available people over the age of about 40/45 – maybe even under that age bracket (being generous in my estimation)… And if we up that age bracket to 50/55, seriously, how many available single men, for example, do we actually know or know of in the confines of the world we do inhabit? Let me think… single men over 45 that I know or know of?..I know about three. And those three are players and assholes. I think there may be another three or four hanging around the local pub most lights of the week; I suspect those I am thinking of are still single – they are heavy drinkers who wouldn’t look out of place as specimens of idiocy in Ripley’s Believe It Or Not. I may not be a social butterfly but I know and know of a lot of people; I also work with a lot of people in a big building – and in that building I know not of one single man over about 32yrs. Not one.
What I’m saying is there are probably bucket loads of single men over 40/45 and even 50/55 out there in the world but one would need to actively seek them out (on-line dating?) or just be lucky to come across not only one of them but the right one of them in the normal course of daily life. I ain’t that lucky!
Am babbling now… sorry… I know I’ll get shot down for such negativity – that’s oaky; I can take it! But I ask before anyone defends their view of a plethora of over 45/50-ish singletons out there to first count in your head the number of men of that age you actually know or know of who are single – and then how many of those are date-able/available.
Still and all, I am same as you on this, Grace:
“It probably wouldn’t hurt for both of us to be a bit more flexible in 2012 if we’re not to spend too much time home alone. And it’s not an age thing, I’ve always been like it.”
Fearless,
I think everything you said is reasonable. I’m not sure how many people just flat out say “no, not today”–I think there is usually some excuse about having errands to run or some such thing. Your response to your friend of “it was unlikely that I would make it but have a nice afternoon” sounds perfectly fair to me. And if someone insists even after you have said you can’t/don’t want to make it…..another chance to practice boundaries?
Re RSVP’s, I had in mind events that are, say, a week or two off….I sometimes find myself wanting to wait and see how I feel closer to the date. And like you said, these are group things that won’t be all that affected if I don’t go. I had a bit of guilt about a situation like this recently, although to be fair, it was a 4-5 hour drive away, hence my hesitation. But in hindsight, I think it would have been more courteous for me to have made the decision and told my friend earlier on whether or not I’d make it, even though my appearance wouldn’t make or break the night.
Any anxiety when you are at these functions, especially if you can’t leave? Maybe social anxiety disorder or something? I use to feel that way and didn’t even realize that was what it was until I was medicated for depression/anxiety/ADD. World of difference in my tolerance for others and social situations. Just some food for thought.
LoJ
No, I don’t have anxiety when I’m in social situations at all – they don’t bother me in that respect; I am socially confident now in my older age – I can talk to anyone – if I feel like it; I can talk for Scotland -many of my friends/work colleagues would attest to that! Sometimes I just wish I was in my bed with a cup of tea and good book instead, and sooner rather than later! It’s more deciding to go or not to go that can sometimes be a problem – but not always by any means. I am actually quite sociable when I’m right in the mood and in the right company – it does happen.
A – yes, I am pretty much wth you on all you wrote. Yes, it’s learning how to handle people who think ‘no’ is the starting point for negotiation and I think I could be a bit more courteous by being more definitive sooner. That’s another new year’s resolution put on the list (that makes… mmmm…. three hundred and sixty-five! Lol!)
Natalie,
I am so glad you posted about this subject!! I thought I was the only person that did this type of thing, thinking almost anyone and everyone was always crossing my boundaries or pushing my buttons. Makes for having very little friends or ability to even be around anyone for any length of time for fear of what they might do or say and what that might mean. There’s someone right now I do everything I can to stay away from. I do not like how I feel around her and some of the things she says ticks me off. I didn’t have the courage to speak up in the beginning and any being *nice* to her now seems like it’s okaying how she was to me. It’s like “it’s ok, say crappy things to me and cut me down, I’ll go on and continue to be a nice and kind person to you.” I’ve had so many years of being trampled on that yes, I have grown to wonder or become confused at what I should take personal or what I shouldn’t.
“it doesn’t mean that they’ve gotten away with anything.” YES! That’s what it felt like, like they got away with something.
It is like the girl that bites my head off. I finally just quit talking to her. I even feel inauthentic exchanging niceties with her because it feels like I am saying her behavior toward me is acceptable. Telling her the way she speaks to me is a waste of time, I have figured that much out. Avoiding her seems to be my safest bet for now.
Just the other day I had an experience where what someone said upset me. The person came back and asked me about it. Turns out what he said was meant totally different than the way I took it. We immediately apologized to one another for the misunderstanding and all was well. I think the deal is figuring out what is a big deal and what isn’t. And asking what the heck someone means by what they say instead of jumping to conclusions!
For what it’s worth, I’m almost without real life friends right now. Over the course of the last months, I realized that the few people I called “friends” were really toxic for me. At best they were completely unreliable and selfish. At worst they were abusive, and they were gaslighting me (especially the woman I called “best friend” because she reminded me so much of my narcisstic mother).
I was simply done with them. I didn’t start a fight or “told them about themselves”, I just stayed away and most of them didn’t even care. Only one started a fight (the former “best friend”) which was so nasty and hurtful that it still makes me shiver. I went no contact. Thank God.
Sadly enough, before learning about narcissism I was almost obsessed with finding friends who reminded me of momster. They somehow seemed “special”, “sacred” to me – like they held the key to happiness.
During the last months, I felt very ashamed about that. Now it makes me rather sad, because all this was a really really sad thing. I feel sympathy for the former me, because she went through so much unnecessary suffering!
Even if it feels weird to be so much alone, I feel less lonely than I used to with all those toxic people in my life. I don’t know how real friendship looks like, but I think if it’s anywhere, it’s in my future and not in my toxic past.
Anyway, so far I managed to NOT piss of my coworkers, and I’m very glad about that. I’m often angry at them, but I know starting a fight wouldn’t do me any good, unless there is something concrete to fight for (such as a day off). If a coworker attacks me in public, I try to deflect that attack briefly without escalating the conflict. It’s usually possible. I love my job. I don’t want to put it at risk. That’s why I put so much effort into controlling my emotions there, and I believe it’s worth it.
Hi Colororange – I definitely feel that you could benefit from saying those six words on a regular basis as it would save you from your own internal episode of Murder She Wrote. Some of these people may well be assholes, but if they are, you don’t want to know them anyway. Some of these people have come across the wrong way – we all do that at times. You don’t like everyone – you don’t and you don’t have to. As a result, yeah maybe there are people who don’t like you, but there’s plenty of people to go around. Not everybody likes me, but who the frick is ‘everyone’? It’s impossible to strive for always being liked. To add to that, most people are not thinking about us to the degree that we think they are.
The more you think that someone is thinking about you and they actually have no personal importance to you, the *less* they *are* actually thinking about you and it’s actually you thinking about you. It’s the inverted ego issue.
I’m very good friends with someone who I used to work with. We both said we thought each of us hadn’t liked the other initially. The truth is this – neither of us liked the other initially. Both thought we were scary, bossy cows!
I never speak to people who are rude to me. At work, I’d just keep a distance and be polite and professional where needed. You’ll find that if anything, they start suddenly trying to speak to you. I don’t do brown-nosing and effectively that’s what it is when you’re nice to someone who is rude – let someone else lick their arse (not literally).
Natalie,
I am just in awe that you know the things you know. I mean, seriously. All this time when someone would be a complete ass to me, sometimes I wouldn’t even realize it and others I would but kept on going like nothing happened. I kept being nice to them because I didn’t want to upset them. I know that sounds insane. How do you figure all this out? It feels so tangled. Maybe because I stayed so isolated and away from people that my reading people skills or whatever skills aren’t there or strong enough. I”m not sure. I mean is it a logical or a *thing* to do to stay away from someone you are not comfortable around? I have given up trying to figure out why I don’t like being around the person or what it is they’re doing is something I might be doing and bla bla bla. I just need some kind of validation that what I am doing is healthy for me. Still searching for what *healthy* is.
EllyB
I hear what you’re saying and can relate. The few people in my life I call friends, I even question that sometimes. Sometimes it seems like being alone is so much easier albeit painful. But I get so messed up in friendships/relationships. Not sure what to share and to keep to myself and whatever. When I do talk to people, I swear, it seems like everyone is screwed up somehow!!
Its like you read my mind! This post is SO perfectly timed its almost creepy. lol. This past Sunday I ran into an EU of my past who tried to break down my boundaries looking for a therapist, a shoulder to lean on and a shag. It almost worked and then I began feeling badly for even hanging around him as long as I did. I got SO upset that when I got home that night I sent him an email letting him know that I didn’t appreciate him using me and disrespecting me any longer. That was the first time I ever “voiced” my feelings and set up some boundaries with him. But because I’ve never sent an email like that, it felt very uncomfortable and I wondered if I was getting carried away or if I was too mean.
Setting up boundaries is definitely a process but I see being out of my comfort zone as a sign of growth. And I will continue to set up my boundaries while making sure I don’t swing to far to any side.
Thank you Natalie for another great post! As usual I’ve learned a lot and thanks to everyone who posted comments.
Knowing my own boundaries has given me back my sanity and my peace of mind. However as I learnt how to reimpose my boundaries, I still spent three years telling this EUM all about himself in an attempt to change him and get him to understand my boundaries and essentially who I am and for him to have more ammunition with which to take the piss. Needless to say my voicing my needs had no effect whatsoever except to further lower my self esteem.
Now I realise that policing my boundaries does not mean I have to call every idiot on their behaviour, but it does mean I can recognise it and walk away. Problem solved.
Sometimes you don’t have to fight a battle to win a war. The battle of no contact is so much eaier to fight now that I realise that changing someone else is never a positive agenda. Now in 2012, I am changing myself. It’s about time!
it’s the trusting myself that i struggle with. I’m in a difficult situation at work, working for a group of people who have built up a leadership team that only furthers their careers, they constantly take credit for the rest of the teams work. I had decided to resign (I don’t have a job to go to) because i don’t TRUST myself to be calm and collected if they cross my boundaries. What’s worse i don’t like them or respect them but still want them to like and respect me which they will ever do. it’s like being left out of the popular group in high school. After reading this post i feel I need to trust myself and try to stay in my job until I find something else.
I’m ok some days and angry the next about the way I was treated by my exEUM. Yes we ended over 2 months ago but each days, I guess gets easier but I’m still so angry about not voicing to him when I had the opportunity to tell hI’m all about himself. I’ve heard from him a few times with pathetic Xmas wishes and one phone call but when we spoke all I made him do was feel good about himself. I was ignorant to what the phone all really meant to him and that was an ego stroke etc. he just waffled on about how we would have been good together, how he would have married me eventually and with no intention of getting back together. I ended it with him and that was his excuse to move on, which he was in the process of dojng as he was too coward to end it himself. He was nasty and pushed me away and spoke to me like I was nothing half the time. Three days previous he’d finished with me but we’d sorted that out and that was just one time of about ten others that he had. The only time I finish it him it’s enough for him to walk out of my life. I’m do angry I gave him all those second, third, tenth, eleventh and twelve chances and tried to be ‘perfect’.
I want to email him and tell him I know what he did while he was with me, I know he moved on and was sleeping around, I know he never really cared. Where would it get me? Would it make a difference? Would it make him see my side? I know the answer from reading this site for months now but why am I still asking all these questions. He thinks im ok. Ive made out I’m ok, he may see through all that but how can he expect not to have done any damage to my self esteem with his verbal abuse and pushing around and then move onto someone ‘better’. You have many posts on anger and getting over break ups but I just can’t seem to stop obsessing and it’s ruining my days. Sorry ive rambled. Xx
I hope my post makes sense!! I have a lot of work to do and I sometimes just don’t know where to start
Shinestar: I’m going to say something that sounds a bit off the wall. From what I’ve read about the EUM’s and the reset that occurs amid all of the chances we give the relationship…I think that giving them the knowledge of your boundaries is important…but after stating my boundaries a few times and having them tested to see if I meant them or if I still cared/was “into him” I finally read where the only way these men can truly move on is if they believe that they can return…so, this time I let the male know what I thought and what I was going to put up with and what I wouldn’t and that if he was ever capable of returning with monogamy and commitment that I would be happy to consider it if I wasn’t already commited to someone else. I let him know that I love and care about him but my conditions were non-negotiable. It is my hope that he is able to feel good about himself and just move on without me in his life in any capacity. When I had stated my rules he had broken them before and as I know about the odd ways of the EUM now with the issues of commitment (unable to commit to staying or leaving) plus the fact that there are some major anger and substance abuse issues not to forget lack of basic trust and integrity, I made certain that I didn’t reject HIM but that I reject his behaviors and standards of conduct in relation to me. In doing so I knew it was likely that I wouldn’t hear from him ever again and that was okay. I knew that I didn’t want to create an unconscious need in him to bust my boundaries. So, for him, to state that I love him and yet I let him go was actually freeing to the both of us. We can’t fix anyone but ourselves. We can’t truly know anyone but ourselves. We can choose our actions and how reactive we are. Now, I don’t know if I will always love this man, I have loved before, and eventually I would always get to a place where they become “someone that I used to know”. Where I am now is that I am no longer concerned with having a relationship of any type and I know that is part of the healing for me. Boundaries will ensure that I will disengage if ever I encounter another such tangled web as I resided in before. I am building a new safe and secure nest of well-being and peace within myself. I still love the man, but I hate so many of the behaviors I encountered, participated in, and allowed. Getting over it is tough…
I know that I am still ashamed of the many times that I did not not enforce my boundaries with my recent exes, co-workers, family, friends, etc., and I do think that they “got away with” taking advantage of me, and as I take care of myself, I do find that I am overdoing it in some situations, but for me it seems to be a necessary part of transitioning into the application of this newly learned behavior, and right now I am more concerned about, as some other posters have stated, with just having the … and the … to enforce my boundaries because I have serious codependency, people pleasing, external validation issues, so if I have to err, I will err on the side of “learning what my boundaries are and enforcing them”… for now, and I think I will eventually balance out….
I had to chuckle though when I read this because I’ve been pretty long winded when explaining why I ‘m enforcing a certain boundary, and ya’, I can now see that I’ve really been talking to myself, but I like that because I’m digging the idea that I’m echoing this new skill in my head…nice reinforcement of a new skill…, but I think that’s too selfish of a skill implementation to continue, and it feeds the fact that I’m self-righteous, and I’m trying to knock that off, so…. Besides, I like the idea of just enforcing your boundaries without explaining it to people, or telling them about themselves…it seems to come from a more confident position. I think I can just start working on telling them what I want, or just detaching, and doing what I think I need to do to take care of myself. Thanks Natalie, I like that….
I think my some of my problems right now are still deciding how I want to enforce my boundaries, but your article has given me some help in that department. And, I’m trying to avoid enforcing a boundary, and then turning around and undoing its enforcement when I feel guilty about…, now that was a real problem for me before, and I’m still ashamed…, so I guess that’s another reason why I’m blasting some perpetrators at my borders…. Also, I cut some people out of my life because I felt like they “knew me when I was a people-pleasing, external validation seeking, etc…person, so I decided it would be too hard on me to try to overcome
that because I have found that some people tend to try and discourage your personal growth when they are uncomfortable with the “changed” you.
Great post Natalie! As yoghurt said, these posts seem to come at a very ironic time. 🙂
I must admit I was also guilty as charged of some of the things in this post. Once I woke up (thanks to this site) and began creating my newly found boundaries and standards, very conveniently, my on-off EUM/assclown that I’ve had a thing with for a few years made an appearance in my life (albeit short-lived). I found myself verbally policing my boundaries to him to the point I may have come across as a little bitchy or demanding… but guess what? I don’t really give a crap because it seems like he got the message since he mysteriously disappeared after our first time seeing each other in a year. The fact that he went “dark” is actually a compliment in disguise because he knows he won’t be able to pull his dodgy behavior on me anymore. Would I do this to every guy? Of course not… this one is just extra thick. Now, I back off at the first whiff of disrespect instead of waiting around while minimizing, denying & rationalizing. I’m so proud of myself and a lot of thanks goes to you Natalie! 🙂
Could you do a post on being a woman of action, not just word? I have this close friend who is the type of female to rub the “I have respect for myself” line in a guy’s face but then go and participate in behaviors that totally contradict that. Claiming you have boundaries is pointless if you’re not LIVING by them.
I’m going through this at the moment. I’ve shut out a lot of friendships in exasperation. I just have no patience with being stepped on anymore, and anyone who transgresses gets unceremoniously booted out of my life. I feel good about enforcing my boundaries but at the same time I don’t have many friends left… I guess that leaves room for new friends? Still trying to figure out where that leaves me. At least I got rid of some ass clowns in my entourage. Thank you for the very timely post.
‘If after you voice your concern, they repeat the same thing or do worse, it’s time to step or distance yourself.’
Finding this post and the comments incredibly helpful today. I’ve been struggling with coming to terms with how my ex is reconstructing our relationship, to my detriment. He’s doing/has done a character assassination.
Just gone over again some early articles on’When they rewrite the relationship’ I’ve definitely stepped, I’ve distanced, feel secure in that but the ruminating, the playing back of what he’might’ be saying is like a bur under the saddle.. Honestly, I am kicking myself whilst writing this today! Why do I still care?
Not helped by the words of love texted to me over the holidays…then when I did not engage as he wished, comments became disparaging again..including an awful negative description of how his brother saw and described me.(This man and his wife knew nothing about me, didn’t appear interested in me when we met, ignored me?)
I woke up, worked,reminded myself that I have people around me who know me very well and like me. I got on with stuff I needed to do yet still the concern remains….how dare he do this!
I know that I have come so far today that I will get a handle on this within the next few days. The Ex is hitting out because I did not capitulate and do what he wanted. I am secure in what broke up our relationship and that has not shifted one iota…he was still on dating sites whilst texting me on Christmas Eve… I was a bottle to get off ice for a while he hoped?Perhaps he waits to see which fish bites first…?
Logically, he he did this when all his previous relationships ended, I believed him for a while when he slagged off his exes. No doubt the next woman will believe him about me.. butI have to let this go.
There is a small part of me that feels sad and outraged. Like all of us, you lie in someone’s arms and they speak of the future, then the future melts and all that remains of this is a twisted description.
However, due to BR ,due to me, why on earth would I waste valuable time telling him off when my absence ‘speaks volumes’
It’s so true, if someone lies to you during the relationship…why would you expect them to tell the truth afterwards?
This situation is about him and his need to retain status/be the good guy/impression manage. That is not my business, anymore…
Lynda, He’s trying to get a reaction. He hasn’t let go. IF you can state your boundaries and tell him that those types of comments are unacceptable and whatever you really want him to know then I would probably do so if you are able to live with the consequences. If not, just don’t respond in anyway. Many people do not let go unless they can villianise a person and this may be what he is doing. I don’t know. What I do know is that you are kind and thoughtful and you cared for him and he misses that BUT is unable to give you what you need and want in a relationship at this time, in the past, and likely in the future. He’s being an ass. Think carefully before you give him anymore of your time. Take care, Leisha
I have ruminated like a ruminating machine but not ever wondered what he`d be saying about me. Judging by how he talked of his exes I presume I`m a psycho-witch. It`s been 10 months since we broke up (which is now longer than the relationship itself) and he still texted ( for my birthday this time) The texts are hooks and I did respond the first three months because I was stupidly still hoping then that he would see the light ( and choose me over the alcohol, oh dear was I naive and deluded) The texts are getting spaced out more and rattle me less and less. He is on the dating site too. I can`t block him as my phone provider doesn`t do that and it is a number I had for the last 15 years and use for business. I WILL NOT let him mess with my livelihood, he already messed with my head and health as a result. My health is my next project, not him. Decided to Florence myself 🙂 I am convinced that my ex is suffering from a wounded ego, he wants to be right. Yours sounds the same. EUMs are in denial about themselves and want to keep it this way and we dare say otherwise.Well, I used to jump to his tune and now…. nothing. Actually, HE is nothing. There is no substance to his texts, and what I got from him in the relationship. I think something snapped in me lately, perhaps after the last text. Got a little rattled, angry, indignant, panicked that I`m without him and then just remembered all the other texts from before, my responses and hopes and feelings upside down…and the resulting nothing. He just wanted to know he still has the power over me. I can genuinly feel- not anymore. I think I`m getting tired/bored of feeling angry now but we have to go through all the stages I guess, It`ll pass Lynda.
Hey Leisha and Hey Sushi…Thanks for perspective on this. You know Leisha, good call. Our expectations did not marry and my boundaries were back in place..the words he said angered me and drew me back in for a little while. I think my anger’s legitimate. He said his brother compared me to some awful woman they both knew??? I just thought…here we go again with the insults…
I don’t think I need to engage further with him. Like you, I had said what I expected from the relationship, months ago, he swerved but wanted to downgrade me into what he wanted. A companiable back-rubbing, poetry reading, stylised shag..(his perception.. not me!) It is over.
I may think ‘ How dare he?’ for a bit longer…thats ok.
Sushi, yeah I’m tired too. I simply do not want to feel angry anymore…I want to be with myself for a while or with someone who is my actual co-pilot…realistic relationships absolutely. I do want commitment. Will wait for that.
I get what you say on Health, too important to let it be messed up.
If I had let him in, ha! I would have had to engage a set of dobermans, some special ops,flak jacket, flares and extreme counter intelligence to scan my boundaries. Hypervigilance would have been the order of the day. No way, 2012 is the time to be gentle with me, to explore, to be with someone who wants me. As I am.
This was definitely me after I broke up with my ex FF a year ago this month. Becoming a boundary setting ninja caused me to almost pass over a great guy because I was so focused on finding red flags, I initially did not want to meet him in person (we met on “How About We”) Fortunately, a girlfriend talked some sense into me and told me to give the guy a change before shutting him down. SO glad I did because we are now in an exclusive relationship and he treats me like gold.
I recently underwent a hysterectomy and he came to the hospital everyday after work to keep me company in the evenings. When I threw up because I could not hold down any food, he held the puke container and then washed it out for me. When the hospital put me out after three days, he came and cooked for me, cleaned up, fixed things around the house, and looked after me. He calls and texts me during the day to let me know that he is thinking about me.
It is SO hard to believe that a year ago I was a hot mess after my breakup, and today I am SO happy with my new beau. He totally blows the ex FF out of the water. Listen to Natalie’s advice! You do NOT know what’s coming (it could very well be something good), but you will never find out if you hold on to the past. Let go, love yourself, and don’t be afraid to give love a try again. Don’t you deserve it??
So lovely to hear from you Gina – you’ve been missed! I know the recuperation period takes a couple of months so I’m glad that you’re letting him support you and more importantly that he’s doing it off his own back. It’s not only wonderful to hear of you happy with your beau – it’s just wonderful to hear how happy you are with you and that you’ve left your ex where he belongs – in the past. Take it easy and stay cool xxx
Thanks Nat 😀 Happy New Year to you and your family 🙂
Lynda,
just change your number then he can not leave you messages of “love” and then you can move on and not worry about wondering what he says about you.
It’s pointless to think about what they say about you, as it is unlikely to be good. I mean, when people treat others badly they usually justify it in some way rightly or wrongly. These relatsionships are usually rubbish anyhow on both sides with dick wad behaviour from both parties in any case!
My ex EUM was annoyed to hear that maybe some stories of his antics may have got round to some of his ex military mates through my current boyfriend who is also in the military. When he was spitting feathers about it, I told him straight that he doesn’t have anys ay on what I say about my life and if he had wanted me to say great things about him, he should have treated me a whole lot better when he had the chance. It works both ways.
I don’t worry what he says about me because he’s an ass and totally unimportant to my life. When your ex is no longer important, you won’t even be thinking about him. My ex meant me nothing good, so I am not surprised if he disrespects me when we are not together, he did so when we were. What’s new?
At first, I did not think this post applied to me. Then, I started reading the comments about how policing your boundaries can keep people out. I am the queen of that. Opened up recently and got hurt and my natural inclination is to take cover again. Two related posts, one on the challenges of opening the heart and one on figuring out where my anger is (apparently, my thighs!): and
I love this post. This has been a big challenge for me. I am learning to calm down some though, and not get so worked up about things. People who push my boundaries on purpose and know it aren’t going to admit it and apologize, so why waste my time on them. If it’s someone I respect, it’s worth talking about but you can still talk it to death, and I have a tendency to do that. I have been guilty of talking too much and over explaining my boundaries to people hoping to get them to see my side. I wanted (needed) to be right. Some how this has been the whole point to me……they have to agree with me and back down. It’s forcing my boundaries down their throats and looking for that to earn me some respect. Doesn’t. Work. It’s been hard for me, but liberating to learn how to just walk away. I slip up still and get mad and mouth off to some inconsiderate stranger…..yes, just to put them in their place. Is it graceful? No, and I want to be able to control that more and be in control of my defensiveness.
I never had a big pool of friends but have very limited friends now because I have cut so many of them off. What I realize though, is that because I lived without healthy boundaries for years, I collected not only a string of EUM/AC’s but also crappy, using, shifty and manipulative friends. They needed to go. One girlfriend in particular always tried to bring me down because of her own insecurities, and it was blatant. She was very controlling and condescending in group settings. When it was just me and her we had fun times but I got tired of getting mad at her for finishing my sentences, not letting me talk in groups, or talking down to me in front of people to make me look bad, especially if there were any men around. When I tried to talk to her about it it was clear that her issues were larger than my discomfort and it was a losing battle for me. We aren’t really friends anymore. She calls me occasionally still, but only when she needs something or when she’s having relationship trouble and needs to vent about things. I don’t take her calls anymore. My hope is that I will build new friendships with solid people. This won’t happen overnight and that’s okay.
Hi Jennynic,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts:
” I wanted (needed) to be right. Some how this has been the whole point to me……they have to agree with me and back down. It’s forcing my boundaries down their throats and looking for that to earn me some respect. ”
I think I’ve been doing the same thing, and no, it isn’t graceful, …yes, I’m shoving my boundaries down their throats, and I think sometimes I am being defensive….
Funny, I read a post once about the “need to be right,” and how this lady decided to let go of an argument with a good friend, etc., and I thought, “No, you just let that guy get away with stepping all over your boundaries; I would have ‘told him about himself.'” I felt like that would be coming from a position of strength, and that I would be teaching the guy how to treat me.
I really could not see past the fact that I thought she was “right,” and that she should set him straight, cuz he was being a real jerk.
Yes, and I feel respected and validated by them first agreeing with me, ….and then backing down. Oh myyyy, I have been waiting for them to say “you’re right,” and bow down to my world…to me that means I won……ugggghhhh, and “this” has got my codependency written all over it because I am so controlling and….
I think I know where I got this from–my mother–our conversations are more like arguments, and I am always insanely arguing with her, trying to get her to see things my way, and I get all riled up because I feel as if she doesn’t listen to me, which she doesn’t (smile), she is extremely opinionated, even when it comes to subjects that she knows nothing about; she doesn’t seem to respect other people’s opinions. I remember my brother, who is a doctor, used to get really pissed off with her when she tried to explain medicine to him, and she wouldn’t listen to him…it was like “hello, your son is a doctor…duh, don’t you think you should at least consider his opinion, and perhaps he might know more about some of this than you?” But, my mom probably picked up all of this from her scary grandmother……oh, boy.
This is good; I’m starting to make more connections between my childhood and myself and my codependency. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. 🙂
I have ignored myself for so long, it is taking some real work to get to know me, but I’m glad I am…
Umi,
Thanks for your comment. If you’ve followed any of my posts over the last two years you will know that I’ve actually done quite well being NC with this guy and have reached a point regarding how I feel about myself and my expectations for future relationships that I’m good about.
I needed to vent thats all.. It’s important to me to be authentic on site and in my everyday behaviour, including mistakes, set backs,getting stuck in a feeling etc.
Your comment;
‘These relationships are usually rubbish anyhow on both sides with dick wad behaviour from both parties in any case!’
I would not describe my behaviour as dickwad, I have not repeated stories about him to anyone,nor was I untruthful within the relationship. In fact I left because of my sense of integrity and my need to be true to what I wanted. I also recognised that if I stayed with a EUM, I was wholly emotionally unavailable myself.
I do not doubt that I will think of him less, sometimes I do and sometimes I don’t. That’s part of the journey, the journey I think many women on site are on, including yourself.
I’m kind of proud at how far I have come..but have learned to be gentle with myself too though.
I am annoyed at his rewriting of things. I need to own that anger and it’s complexity just now. I am in this good place in general Umi, because I work these things through. You ask ‘What’s New?’ I will answer, many many great things are new for me, including a whole new attitude to relationships.. BR and the supportive posts and articles have been intrinsic to that.
I’ve been reflecting some more on this, and I can really see that I am not only just talking to myself, and trying to straighten other people out in accordance to my world (smile), but I am trying to write some wrongs for some issues that I haven’t resolved, and I really appreciate you bringing this to my attention Natalie because, yikes, I just saw my mother, but I’m grateful because honestly, I can be a real angry person, and I have been really working hard on my temper, …I can really get riled up sometimes…and, I’m gaining some more understanding regarding my codependency …, thanks Natalie, this really helps me. 🙂
Oh, and I really like how you explained how boundaries are supposed to work; that was an excellent explanation. I’m finding some peace in your explanation…wow, policing my borders really is waaaaaaaaaay off the mark.
I can see that now, and I’m going to keep thinking about this…I really have been engaging in unnecessary dramas 🙁 , but I’m happy to know this 🙂 🙂
What a great thread! I was just thinking about these things last Friday, when I suddenly realized what I break through I had made without really even noticing it. Someone asked me to go shopping with them, and I replied with yes, I can make it in an hour. They responded with “But I’m bored now!”
Sounds normal, right?
But here’s the thing: A year ago, I would have dropped everything and left right that instant to make that person happy, then come home upset with myself that I didn’t take the hour I needed to get done what I wanted. 6 months ago, I would have interpretted their comment as boundary busting, gave a defensive apology, listed the reasons I shouldn’t leave at the moment, gone anyways, and been pissed the entire time. But last Friday, all I did was say “Okay, but I’ll still see you in an hour.” No apologies, no explanations, no guilt. The subject was immediately dropped, and I went on to have a great evening that night. In fact, I’m sure said person never even thought of it again, simply because I didn’t make a big deal out of it. So small, so simple, yet such an important lesson.
Here’s another thing I’m noticing. I started a new job about 9 months ago, and I’ve never been happier at one. A year ago I would have gone in feeling like a fake who didn’t belong there, unliked by people who didn’t go out of their way to speak to me, going out of my way to set myself up as Queen Bee of Niceness who would do anything for anyone…and then probably become pissed when someone inevitably took advantage of that. But since I’m NOT always Queen Nice who will do anything for everyone, I opted to finally not try to act like I am. And how wonderfully it worked out. I offer my help when and where I truly can, I don’t overstep into something I’m not paid to do, and I’m content with biding my time in building relationships with others. And I never for one second dread walking into my office. Gee, why does this all sound so familiar?
There was once girl who rode my ass in the beginning. Actually, I never had speak to me the way that she did. I didn’t snap at her, but I didn’t roll over, either. I remained calm because this job was a great opportunity for me, and I wasn’t about to let anyone else ruin it, and if I had snapped, there was a chance that it would. But I also didn’t kiss ass or apologize for…
I think you almost need to go through the period of being over the top with the boundaries before it all falls into place. I`m noticing that this whole getting over the guy-BR-get yourself back or just get yourself for the first time ever journey does resemble a wave. You get over the top overwhelmed at times with the realisation of stuff, then you get over-angry with them, then with yourself, over-blame, over-shame, and once you deal with those intense feelings one at a time you get some clarity and calm and that`s such a great feeling. I`ve had recently this feeling of peace and release and just feeling happy for the first time in nearly a year and a half ( that would be nearly since I met the ex EUM) but my mind is still working overtime. I was just going about my business just now and had this sudden thought; He was a separated alcoholic in denial with an ex girlfriend lurking in the background with him lurking on a dating site, who also lied, didn`t trust me and displayed signs of less than interest plus all the “little things” ; managing by text ect. God, I feel ashamed, how low did I let myself fall. Twisting myself into a pretzel for him to love me and be with me- understatement of the year!! My final frontier: my children. If it wasn`t for him telling me basically that he sees it a problem, me cancelling a dinner and night in a pub on him because my kid was in trouble I might still have been there taking all this shit. OMG, more shame. Waiting for my peace and calm now and thinking who cares if I`m overzelous with the boundaries for a while. At least I`ve got them now.
Oh, I had another thought. I am ashamed to the eyeballs but still feel this inner conviction that everything will be well. Natalie, I wish someone invented a better word than thank you, so THANK YOU!!!!
@Leisha, oh my goodness, I am so in awe of you, I ended up telling the ex EUM/AC that I loved him, would do what ever it took to make the relationship work etc but that I had boundaries ~ at the time, I didn’t realise I was just giving him the ego boost he needed to move on to his next ‘victim’, sorry, girlfriend but I soon
realised that that is exactly what happened and
that he actually engineered it to happen that
way, he manipulated the whole situation ~ he’s
very good at manipulation ~ but, I am finally
coming to terms with the fact that it is infect
better for me that he does move on and no longer contacts me but I still get bouts of wanting to tell him what I think of him, I am in no way as gracious as you are and as for enforcing my boundaries, well, I’m doing the same as some other readers and disengaging almost totally from all human contact, which isn’t difficult as I am currently not working, live in the middle of nowhere surrounded by fields, live miles away from family and friends, moved here only in April with the ex EUM/AC and we were over by July but having said that, it has been like my own private healing spa and I have valued this time alone more than any other time in my life because I don’t just want to ‘get over this’ I want to heal completely so I never repeat this behaviour again, life is too short to be with an AC/EUM and although I have learned so much and healed so much I know I have further to travel and I know I can’t avoid making mistakes but I just want to be sure of me and who I am so while ‘getting out there’ might be good advice for some, my time in almost solituted has been priceless and I feel very fortunate and grateful to have had this time, it has taught me so much and strive to be where you’re at now, having graceful thoughts/feelings towards the ex where they are still pretty angry!
Lovingme, I have tried 3 times now to respond…I guess I’ll just make my reply short and sweet. I get angry. I experience all of the emotions in connection with the severing of the assn with someone I loved so dearly but with whom a mutual relationship was not possible and had not been good for most of it’s existence. I love him. I hope the best for him. I refuse to take any more crap just to be near him or hear his voice…I’m no longer capable of that because I have learned so much now and see how things were and what I refuse to deal with any longer. I have left the door open with conditions but that is something that I chose to do and fully realise that I may never hear from or see him again. I am going forward regardless. I finally let go and it is very hard dealing with the finality of it, but I am pleased that I stood up for myself and stated what I need as well as let him know I loved him. This gift of time for the healing is one of the best gifts you could ever receive for it prepares you and arms you for the rest of your life as you gain the knowledge and tools to go forward and love with healthy boundaries and self-respect. Lonely; yes…worth it? Absolutely. We can’t take back what was, we can only go forward. The anger lessens as NC continues and we get stronger and wiser. It is my fondest hope that those we love/d learn and grow as well, but they have to do the work. We didn’t break em, we can’t fix em. We can love em at a distance, and that’s what I choose to do. Take care.
Thank you leisha. Your post to me makes so much sense. Oddly I bumped into him yesterday and we saw each other from a distance and I walked the other way. Childish maybe but it was the only way I could handle the situation at the time. Im so much stronger but cannot take the risk of bursting into tears. He did subtly try to comr after me, I knew he would he’s done it before . Shortly after he sent a text saying how broken he is I’m out of his life snd that ignoring me is unnesseary. I’ve not replied but how can I bulieve this after all the lies, how can I know what’s true and what’s not when I’m still confused with emotions? I might try your approach and reply but at the same time breaking no contact and opening myself up to a line of communication is too painful. The consequences too much. Why do I feel guilty?
Shinestar: He sent a text. He hasn’t had time to work on himself as you are doing. He was content with the on and off again situation and would like things as they were where he could waltz in and out of your life. Guilt and sadness is part of the process of healing. Yep, he’s broken, but what is he doing to repair himself? Natalie has written about questions that you need to ask if the ex calls…ask him what does he want? Ask yourself what you want. What could be done to repair that which has been broken? What has changed besides his wanting things on his terms? What are your requirements for assn with him? Do you want to try again? What would be different? Have you addressed your issues? Are your boundaries strong? Are you ready to opt out when/if red flags appear or is the same ole games start again (if you did re-enter the assn). His not wanting to let go or wanting to be friends isn’t unusual…NC is hard…could you have an honest conversation with him about your history together and is he willing to work with you to make things better? Could you get close to him physically without ending up in bed together? Think carefully. Whatever you do will not be easy. My ex had huge potential for havoc…I dislike drama…we were not a good fit. Yep, I loved him, but I chose/choose me and my needs for monogamy, trust, commitment, versus where he chose/ chooses multiple women, drugs, distance. There is no rush to decide. Think on it.
You are so good with words leisha. You make so much sense. For now I have decided not to reply as I still have doubts on the truth of the text. He actually wouldnt have sent it if he hadn’t seen me. I also question the fact that it was a text. If he wanted me back and treat me well then he would ring, he would be persistent, an apology maybe and I have heard nothing since then. After the last time I see this as another door for him maybe. It’ll set me back to square one again and I’m exhausted with it all. So for now, I guess my decision is made to ignore it. Very hard, you are right with that one. I hand answered all your questions and it’s scary to think that a huge part of me does want him back, I miss him terribly and it’s also scary to think I’m still partly willing to put up with the crumbs but no, my boundaries must be stronger, they must or I would have caved already. I think I choose me!!! Oh wow this just might be a turning point.
Thank you, I honesty appreciate the personal reply, it really helps.
Shinestar, You are so welcome and I appreciate your situation and thankyou for the compliments. I think whatever you do must be aligned with your boundaries and values and right now you are an emotional tornado…makes you so weary and you must take care of yourself. Nat told me several times that the ex was toxic for me and it’s true; the behaviors and lack of so much in addition to excess of bad equaled very toxic and I HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD to stop it; yet at the same time I had to tread with care knowing I too was experiencing emotional storms. Ultimately for me to have peace I did as I did . There is NO WAY either of our ex’s has done the work required to have healthy relationships. NO WAY. Since you are near each other I would def consider how I’d react to running into him and NOT feel any shame about turning around and going the other way. You must heal and then you can deal. IF there is any chance that you are to have a healthy anything in assn with your ex then things must change. He is hurting but he is responsible for how he behaved, and as Ixnay wrote, he may well be seeking comfort just to pull the same shite again (also typical EUM behavior on the clown level)…It happened to me with my ex several times, BUT I never asked questions that I posed to you with him so I didn’t change the dynamics. You need to ask him what he means/intends if he attempts to return. I don’t know why I didn’t say it before: Do you intend to be here in a mutual, commited, monogamous relationship with me? I would also suggest that this conversation (if it occurs) NOT happen until you have taken several months to address your own needs and to know what you will take and won’t. You are only in month 2 of NC…Nat has several posts about how a person with good intent will act…read em and decide what you want and need. Hang in there…you rate a good man and not the crap that has brought you here. Maybe your ex will learn from this experience, but he won’t if you just take him back and hit the recycle button.Take care. Leisha
Shinestar —
if you can, do not reply. write all you want in a journal. sometimes I write emails to my eum and send them to myself instead of him. i ALWAYS am glad i did not send them to him.
I just fell for the “I am so broken up about losing you” ploy a couple of months ago. he really meant it, but I thought that also meant he wanted to be with me. NO! he just wanted to cry about how hard it was for him. he wanted ME to say it would be okay for him to proceed with another relationship but also see me on the side for these noatalgia-fests. The truth is, once we were talking again, he felt a whole lot better, and i felt like someone hit me with a 2-by-4. literally, I had to take several days off from work and have lost 10 pounds again. when i told him how distraught I was he said, “now you know how i feel.” BULLSHIT. For one nanosecond he felt how i have felt on and off since frigging 2007 when (he now admits) he “checked out” of the relationship and basically dated on the side (but this was totally legit in his view because i “wasn’t meeting his needs”). I FINALLY went no contact and he manages to have some authentic feelings of loss and uses those to play me like a fish.
Let him feel loss! let him soak in it! let him feel the genuine consequences of his actions instead of being guilted into letting him have you as an emotional fail-safe. Don’t do what i did; i frigging fell for the crocodile tears and meanwhile he’s actually looking for apartments with another woman. (I had to tease this out of him.) Now that he sucked me in, I have a long email from him about how busy he is (12 paragraphs of how busy he is; he wasn’t so busy when HE wanted to be comforted) and how he hopes I will channel my energy into “productive avenues.” Dissed and dis-missed!
My guy is a pain machine. Sounds like yours was — DO NOT LET HIM FEEL BETTER ABOUT HIMSELF AT YOUR EXPENSE!
ixnay,
We dated the same guy, I’m convinced. 😉 Lot’s of similarities here, especially his finally admitting when he “started pulling away from me and had to go to other women.” All of which he felt was totally legit because I said no to his requests for financial help and I “demeaned” him. I too almost lost my job in all of this, and also lost 10 lbs. Everyone asks me “how I did it?” I tell them, “It’s not worth the pain, don’t follow in my footsteps. Stick to a healthy diet of high self esteem and self love.” 😉
Great post. I have been reflecting on my behaviour of late and my obvious lack of bounderies with people over periods of my life. Currently my flatmate constantly having ‘not enough money’ and me having to cover the rent and not getting the money back/waiting months for it. And secondly the AC who keeps reappearing in my life. Both these situations are within my control, and unfortunately I keep choosing to let it happen as I find it difficult to hurt peoples feelings. When the AC last contacted me on NYE, I ignored it but then felt livid a few days later and broke contact saying that I’ve moved on with my life and am no longer available to him as an ego stroke…. he then proceeded to say that he “rang the wrong Hayley in his phone and that he is deleting my number’. He then sent me a picture of a text I’d sent to his phone with my number deleted’. If he’s deleted my number or not does it matter? No, for if he calls answer I will answer with a simple ‘thanks, but no thanks’ and hang up. Game over. As for my flatmate, it’s a tad trickier, but unless I lay down bounderies I fear they will keep getting stepped over again and again.
H
“He then sent me a picture of a text I’d sent to his phone with my number deleted’.”
Eeeewww! Tosser.
Ixnay – thank you to you too. You see the thing is I kind of learned my lesson about 6 weeks back when I fell for similar to what you did. I got message through his friend saying how much he missed me. I replied immediately and told him to ring me but guess what!! HE DIDN’T until the day after and then proceeded to tell me what we could have had and how he did this and felt that and should’ve and would’ve – crap and all past tense. I honestly thought we were going to work things out even though it wasn’t the sensible option but no it was just an ego stroke for him. In fact, exactly the same as you. Boy did that set me back miles at the time. I was mortified I fell for it like you so even though this is a similar scenario with the well worded texts I just can’t expose myself.
Your reply reminded me of this and reiterated the reasons why I won’t contact him. It’s good that we all learn from each other or ourselves.
I did something today at work that I have been putting off for ages – it was a supervised management role which I have been putting off due to lack of confidence and the usual “I’m not good enough” problem and that was something he always abused. I couldn’t have done this 2 months ago because my self esteem was smashed. OK fair enough it’s still a little cracked – today has been a massive turning point for me in more ways than one.
Natalie – how one earth did you work all this out?
I’ve been reading your blog for a long time, but this is my first time to comment.
This whole issue of “boundaries” has been something I’ve struggled with and been working on for the past few years. Most of the examples and threads I’ve read on this blog deal with partners or peers, and while they are ALL helpful to read, I still struggle because one of the main boundary busters in my life, IMO, is my mother.
For various reasons, I can’t “cut her off” at the moment, and I don’t really *want* to, since she plays an active role in my child’s life. But I stood up for myself the other day (the story is too long to post about) and her reaction was typical: silence. No response. No reply email, no phone call, nothing. In the past (childhood and young adult life), whenever I gathered enough guts to stand up for myself, she would turn icy and after a few days of the stony looks and silent treatment, I would cave and give up whatever stance I had taken.
I’m 38 now. Her response STILL hurts me. But I can’t cower anymore…I think I would literally go crazy if I continued the dance of dysfunction. And yet…this all still feels SO dysfunctional to me. And, even though I did what I thought was right, and did it with respect and kindness, I still feel sad.
Thanks for your blog. NML, your words and those of your readers are so insightful and helpful.
rosenfire
I hope yuo don’t mind a response for me on this because this made my blood run cold when I read it cos this is what my ex EUM use to do and it would made me feel and react exactly as you describe with your mother:
“But I stood up for myself […] and her reaction was typical: silence. No response. No reply email, no phone call, nothing. […], whenever I gathered enough guts to stand up for myself, she would turn icy and after a few days of […] silent treatment, I would cave and give up whatever stance I had taken.”
The answer with an EUM of course is to stop engaging with the fecker – which I failed miserably to do. Maybe with a mother it should be: Don’t cave. Stand your ground. Be firm and consistent about what *your* standards are and what *you* will accept and not accept. Identify what that is and enforce it – and do not cave. I kinda did this with my father (who had a drink problem); they eventually get that you are not that child of theirs who is going to or has to tolerate their poor behaviour any longer (you are an autonomous adult now afterall). Let them do all the adjusting to you, rather than the other way round. It might take time to penetrate but it will.
But what the hell is the matter with these people anyway?
Fearless and Rosenfire – the last few times I’ve stood up for myself with my mother, it’s resulted in her not speaking to me for 4-9 months. The hurt was horrible but it won’t stop me from standing up for myself again – the other route doesn’t work.
Fearless, an ex of mine would freeze me out if I stepped out of line. Ugh!
Fearless – yes gross indeed lol I actually recoiled in horror at how ridiculous the text was. I would rejoice with great pleasure if he has deleted my number as it would save me the stress of having to ignore him if he feels the need to direct his next Ego Stroke/Game towards me, but an AC wouldn’t be so kind would they
I am so emabarrassed at how I have behaved in the past, feeling a loss of control and not exercising boundaries. I react to situations such as disappearing or change in level of contact, or not feeling paid attention to like a child. I am not proud of it, and trying to change. I am even MORE embarrassed that the people I tried to “educate” were not even boyfriends, just people I was sleeping with, going out to dinner with or even had a few dates with. I sometimes get caught up in the shame
11 days before Christmas my BF grabbed me and shook me and threw a book at me – twice, once hitting my dog. This was the absolute dealbreaker. The next day he called crying, begging for my forgiveness, saying he’d quit drinking and get help. So. I called his bluff – knowing full well he’d NEVER go to counseling. He’s too arrogant. I left it that if he sets it up, give me the where and the when and I’d be there, in the meantime i want nothing to do with him.
Silence for days and days. Then a call saying he hurt his back at work, his dad’s sick, blah blah. I remained detached and calm and reiterated my position. Since that call it’s been all texts starting 5 days ago. Here’s how it goes.
1. Friday 11:45 pm – I’m really missing you tonight. (I ignored.)
2. Saturday 6 pm – How are you this eve? – I replied “great I’m watching football at (the local bar)” Following this it was a series of unanswered texts 1) I thought of going there 2) I’m glad you’re having a good time 3) I won’t crash your party. 4) Thanks for replying. I guess I just wanted you to know I wasa thinking about you. 5) It is soooooooo annoying when you don’t reply to my texts! You know, I’m trying to communicate with you and you ignore me. Hurts deeply….”
3) Sunday afternoon – a rambling text about all the wonderful times we’ve shared, all we’ve meant to each other…..am I going to throw that all away?
You notice NONE of these messages addresses the issue – his violent behavior and counseling.
4) Monday – a text about what a mean, selfish person I am. All he’s done for me. blah blah.
I text back that I’m not interested in anything he has to say to me unless it’s an appointment for counseling.
then – he’s not paying $200 for counseling, He’s been out of work w/ an injury, finances are tight
me – I’ll pay half. Plus it’s covered by your insurance
him – No thanks, I’m doing all I can to keep my household running.
me – As you wish. Now please leave me alone.
***** OK – ARE YOU READY FOR THIS?****
him – I wish you loved me.
LOLOLOL!!!!!
Ok, and then at 8:30 last night..
Him – The new Two and A-Half Men sux!!
It really is getting comical to see how many different angles he’s playing. What an ass.
WNC
Ignore him. He’s a prize idiot. Can you change your number? Your dog will thank you for it.
HiWNC lady,
He’ll use some more still I bet! If these guys can’t get in the door, they try the window….
Sorry for what you went through but you are doing the right thing, he isn’t serious about getting help, may never be.
Alcohol and resultant violent behaviour is a big red flag.Watch out for yourself and stay strong! Step away from the phone, I know I am.
WNC
I enjoyed your comment! Good read! Stick to your guns. His drunken violence is the top line data – There’s nothing else worth talking about until that is dealt with – if it can be, which I think is doubtful anyway – or certainly unlikely unless the person truly wants to change – and even then it’d be along and arduous road. This man doesn’t even want to change – he wants you to have relationship amnesia (or ‘getting a beating amnesia’!)
Magnolia posted recently a comment from a relationship counsellor, I think – or a book – that she’d read that said ‘as soon as one person starts lying everything has to stop’ until that issue is resloved – if indeed it can be. Plainly the same goes for violent and aggressive outbursts. Everything must stop until he deals with that; you are doing the right thing. Don’t budge an inch. Keep repeating same message until he gets it. He won’t get help until/if his problem/behaviour/addiction affects *him* badly enough – he will eventually just bugger off to be drunk and a shambles and abusive somewhere else. Good luck!
Thanks, ladies. I really appreciate your supportive comments. How true – violence and lies must bring any relationship to a grinding halt. I’d never thought of it that way! I’m still having moments of missing him but it’s not really HIM I’m missing – it’s my dream of him. The person I knew before he revealed his true colors. BR is helping tremendously. Thanks to Natalie and all of you!
This is, by far, one of the very best blog articles I’ve read in a very, VERY long time. No bullshit. I loved it. I’m going to share this on my fb page. Very valuable, worthwhile and straightforward insights. You have a wonderful gift!
This is a good one, as it’s still a struggle for me to this day due to my boundaries being crossed as a kid/teenager by relatives & so-called friends/acquaintances. This definitely gives me some perspective, as well as a clear path to take it on.