Last night I was speaking with a reader who has really been given the emotional beatdown by the guy that she’s been involved with. She couldn’t fathom how she’s got to the point where she’s involved with a guy who’s treating her like a casual sex companion who he can disrespect at will and I quipped that these dubious relationships are comparable with when you have a credit card or insurance and they keep changing the terms and conditions on you – next thing you know, what you’re actually getting is really far removed from what you thought you had.
The credit card has a 7.9% APR. A few weeks later you find out that they’ve increased it to 16.6% and by reading the new T&C’s and continuing to keep and use the card, you’re now agreeing to the new set of terms and conditions. You would tell them to take their card back, but you’ve already spent some of the credit and don’t want or don’t feel that you can afford to pay it back. Periodically you keep getting letters with revised rates and T&C’s until you decide enough is enough. Or…you end up paying back your debt with whacking great interest.
You can meet someone and they offer so much promise. You might not be that interested at first, but they pursue you and shower you with so much attention and let you believe that you have a future. You’re spending time together, you’re laughing, joking, shagging your hearts out and you’re dating and moving into relationship territory. Maybe he makes ‘little’ references to meeting his parents, going on holiday, getting married, moving in together. Then next thing you know, he’s not calling so much, substituting calls with text messages and telling you that you’re moving too fast and that he’s not over his ex. Over the subsequent months, he engages in other dubious behaviours and you stay because you remember what it was like at the beginning and surely he can go back to being this way? Surely he wouldn’t continue to contact you and see/sleep with you, if he didn’t want to be with you? You may feel that you’ve emotionally invested too much to back out now. So you stay and hope that things will change or revert to the original ‘agreement’.
Particularly in dubious relationships, we can make some blind assumptions that can get us into a lot of trouble when someone decides that the ‘terms and conditions’ of the relationship are changing.
For example, he tells you that he doesn’t want the type of relationship that you’re asking for and that he wants to be casual. You have a discussion and it becomes clear that he doesn’t want to commit. However, he’s still trying to sleep with you, contacting you, and carrying on as normal after the conversation.
You assume that because he’s still continuing on with you, that he actually wants to be with you but has ‘issues’ that he needs to sort out. However….
He assumes that because you are still there and you are not telling him to take a run and jump, that you are accepting the new terms and conditions of the relationship, fully aware that you haven’t read the small print (the bit where you don’t get what you want, need, or expect), which basically leaves him free to shift the goalposts and make it up as he goes along and keep you as an ‘option’.
They’re like dodgy sales people – they impose a new set of terms and conditions and try to rush you through the conversation so that you don’t see the small print.
Another example of this is when you get someone who is really full-on and intense at the start of a relationship – they do this so you don’t look too closely at who they really are and see red flags, although this behaviour in itself is a red flag.
As he is the person who holds the powerbase in the relationship (the unhealthy dynamic caused by you not having enough boundaries and giving him too much power to dictate the relationship on his terms), he assumes that until you have and live by your boundaries, that he can shake things up and have the brass balls to reap the same benefits – for example an ego stroke, shag, and a shoulder to lean on.
This is why it’s really important to assess your position in your relationship periodically to ensure that the initial perception of things still stands and is in line with your boundaries and what you profess to want out of a relationship.
There is no point being a casual sex ‘companion’ when you want a relationship for example. If you started out believing that you were dating with a view to being in a relationship and they just want to get laid, this is an abort mission moment.
As I’ve said before, when we date someone and begin to get to know them, we should go in with a reasonable level of trust, and use our internal navigational system – boundaries, values, gut, instincts, judgement etc, – to assess our risk and whether our initial decision to be with this person is still sound.
It’s like going through a series of checks and balances and the reason why someone can change the terms and conditions and tangle us up in ‘small print’ that they may not even share with us, is because even in the face of evidence which shows that we are in a situation that is causing us to have little or no boundaries and go against our own value system and causing us to not be authentic, we continue on anyway, often making assumptions without real basis.
Years ago, when I dated the Mr Unavailable who subsequently gave me my epiphany, I realised that I had made a massive assumption with absolutely no basis and that many women do this. Granted, you would think that you could make some assumptions when someone pursues you or becomes involved with you, but we don’t all come to people and relationships with the same mentality.
He’d been involved with someone for ten years and been broken up for a couple of months when he started to pursue me. I assumed that in him pursuing me, that he was over his ex and that he wanted to be with me. However, many men and women, act first and think later, without real thought or regard to the consequences for the other person. In us making assumptions like this, we fail to realise that they’re making assumptions too – he assumed that because I knew he’d just broken up with his ex and still owned a home with her that surely I couldn’t be thinking that he wanted a relationship? So he gradually changed the terms and conditions of our relationship and blew hot and cold, so that he could maintain the Status Quo and manage down my expectations to a comfortable level.
When you’re with an assclown or Mr Unavailable, it reminds me of those medicine commercials in the US or when you hear financial or insurance adverts on the radio. Initially whatever is being advertised appears to have so much promise, then at the end, a voice starts speeding through a list of side effects/terms and conditions.
‘Terms and conditions apply. The said gentleman will blow hot initially because he wants to gain your confidence and win you over. During this hot phase, he’ll believe that he truly does want a relationship with you but when you expect, want, or need too much, or someone better comes along reminding him that he has other options, he’ll start blowing cold and telling you about the litany of problems he has. Note that he will accept no responsibility and you are fully responsible for all costs associated.’
Or
‘This medicine is only approved to be used with women with low self-esteem. Side effects include further lowering of self-esteem, confusion, feeling blindsided, wondering if you imagined what he said/did/promised, major ego stroking, everything on their terms, lots of tear shedding, talking, discussing, and explaining too much and suffering from delusions of relationship status’
When people share information about themselves either by telling you or by showing you, don’t disregard it because you’d prefer to see something better in them or you don’t want to let go of your vision of the relationship. Read the small print and ensure that you are listening and watching.
Actions speak louder than words and communication is not all verbal. It’s not just about what you say and do, but also what goes unsaid and not done.
The small print is the stuff that undermines your efforts and the relationship and changes the reality of what you’re in. The small print is when you recognise the relationship is on their ‘terms’ and what you need to let slide, both in boundaries, but also in maintaining your own sense of self, in order for them to get what they want and serve their needs.
Boundaries are your non negotiables. By knowing what you are not prepared to accept, you teach people how to treat you and what to expect. Every time someone tries to change the ‘terms and conditions’ on you, they’re testing your boundaries and it is an opportunity to assess whether you accept, or reject, or find an opportunity for compromise. Although keep in mind, that when you’re with someone who keeps downgrading your relationship and blindsiding you with new terms that are based on their needs, you may not get compromise.
In the meantime, you need your own terms and conditions – not with small print, but with clear terms (boundaries) that you reflect in what you do in your relationships.
OhMyGod, this is so true!!!! I made such enormous assumptions, and categorically refused to change them FOR YEARS — living in total denial of the fine print.
The final blow from him about what he really didn’t want from me after all of my hopes and time put in and dreams, was so devastating I spent 6 months after that being sorry when I woke up in the morning and wishing I’d died in my sleep.
And since then, the last 2 years almost, I’ve spent several times a week (or every time you post) on your site, trying to learn, beginning to understand, beginning to see and put the pieces together.
Feeling differently about me, about being wiser, finally knowing what healthy boundaries are and what self-esteem feels like.
(At least a little bit, because I wasn’t in a relationship, just saying ‘no’ to some unsuitable men)
It’s funny, because I immediately roll my eyes and turn off if it is b.s. from a company or salesman. I smell the lie and trust nothing from them after that, the minute the double talking or evasiveness begins.
And some men really ARE like those credit card offers ! Too good to be true in the beginning and then a misery in the middle and then end where you end up underwater!
Ah, Natalie, you make me SEE every time.
Now, even if I never try to get out there and date again, I SWEAR I WILL NEVER ACCEPT ANOTHER DODGY CREDIT CARD OFFER WITH A PENIS ATTACHED IN MY LIFE AGAIN EVER (lol).
It’s just not worth it to make assumptions – it only hurts me in the long run, and oh my, oh my, oh my, I’m an “avoid pain” addict now:)
.-= Aurora´s last blog ..Character Assassination =-.
skelly
on 11/02/2010 at 2:06 am
NML, amazing post and good timing. I was internalizing and feeling like my self esteem was in the toilet today. After reading this, I got pissed off, because that guy is a total manipulative jerk who only wanted a relationship on his terms. Thank you, I needed some strength tonight and this was the perfect article.
It’s so easy to internalize the failure of the relationship and think you did something wrong. But I have to remind myself that it’s his issues, not mine. He is not going to change and I cannot accept him as he is. It is not about love, but the fact I deserve better than crumbs.
mE
on 11/02/2010 at 3:42 am
ah, so true! i was with a man years ago that straight up said he was wasn’t looking for anything serious. after seeing each other for months, he told me he wasn’t even going to be in my state for more than eight months or so, yet i spent the entire rest of the time trying to ‘get’ him to reconsider. i mean, he kept coming around and hanging out, he kept calling, he kept sleeping with me and told me he wasn’t sleeping with anyone else, we had a good time, right? why would he if he didn’t want more. yeah, he was having a great time, having sex and companionship whenever it suited him because i was letting it happen, even though that was expressly what i was not looking for. working so hard to get some guy to see more in me was insane. why didn’t i either accept that it was what it was or go out and find someone who actually wanted to be in a relationship and would actually be around in a year?! the utter, utter stupidity. i completely ignored the fact that he TOLD me what was up because i wanted us to be a good fit and had already invested my time, body and heart. why was it a good decision to then throw even MORE of myself into an absolute void? so ridiculous.
Crushed
on 11/02/2010 at 3:48 am
My thoughts…I am so beaten down at this point that all I can think is that I wasn’t even good enough to get in touch with after I decided to do NC. It’s been a week and a half.
The credit card terms or prescription commercials here in the U.S. are such a perfect analogy. I tried so hard to meet the expectations that he had and kept changing until I had nothing left and in the end all he could say was that it was my fault that things didn’t work out. And actually got me to believe that that was true…
SaraK
on 11/02/2010 at 4:08 am
“or someone better comes along reminding him that he has other options”
Excellent post. One quibble: The someone who comes along isn’t “better.” Often, it’s just someone “additional.” Or, someone with even lower expectations.
Thanks again for BR.
Brenda
on 24/02/2010 at 5:39 pm
I agree. I haven’t seen the someone else come along yet. But, I’m trying to prepare myself for that. I need to remember that I should have sympathy for the new girl. This leopard won’t change his spots. She will have to be younger and naive like I was. He’ll emotionally and mentally abuse her too. Why did it take so long for me to see how he really was. Don’t rely on potential. Rely on how a person factually is.
Tara
on 11/02/2010 at 5:20 am
This is great. I went out on three dates with a guy recently and it was great–great chemistry, he was making references to a future, etc. and then he started blowing cold on the third date. It took him five days to contact me after that and it was a text at that. I let him know if he wanted to ask me out on a date, that would be great. And then I didn’t hear from him for another three days (another text: “love the snow” WTF!). I didn’t respond and won’t. Now the ball is in my court–it may only be a ping-pong ball, but, especially thanks to this post, I’m keeping it.
.-= Tara´s last blog ..Mr. Unavailable #28: Or Just Plain Crazy =-.
funms-the rebirth
on 11/02/2010 at 7:44 am
“Boundaries are your non negotiables. By knowing what you are not prepared to accept, you teach people how to treat you and what to expect.”……………
I needed that above statement….thank you!
.-= funms-the rebirth´s last blog ..Love Lingerie?????? =-.
Brad K.
on 11/02/2010 at 4:20 pm
I think a long term relationship is bigger than a personal choice.
If you meet someone, and get closer because of feelings, this has the makings of a decent to great episode of social recreation.
If you want something more, a shared life, a life partner – a mate, then you are looking at building a couple. And couples interact with their community. You will each, as a couple, be making choices and efforts outside the coupledom, because of being part of the couple – at work, shopping, at play, with friends, with family.
Selecting a mate has to take more into account. For one thing, you don’t just have to trust and respect him when he is with you – you have to be sure that he is competent, respectful – trustworthy, trusted, and respected – with those you know and those you meet.
One really big red flag is how he treats you with his friends and family – are you a visitor or a cherished guest? Are there indications he often has “dates” tagging along (! Might be a Perpetual Dater!), or does he have no friends or contact with family (! Might be *unable* to connect emotionally!) or pets? Is he proud of you, like a trophy of some kind (!), is he possessive that you don’t talk or contact anyone (! Isolation issue!), or is he genuinely making you and his relationship to you a part of his private and social life?
Do your friends find him substantial as a member of the community, does he have a life (do you?) socially and personally, outside the dating scene?
How he behaves with others doesn’t matter much between the sheets (or it gets really kinky really quick). But if you want someone for the long haul, then you need to know who he is and where you stand with him. One good way to do that is to find out where you stand when he is with friends, family, and community. Few people can sham and manipulate everyone, everywhere, and still seem genuine. That is the place, socially and within the community, to look for more red flags. Does he see a role for you in his life, or only in bed? Do you matter to him only skin to skin, or out in public, too?
.-= Brad K.´s last blog ..tslr: Spouse choice, change, and surviving. =-.
metsgirl
on 11/02/2010 at 4:45 pm
@ Aurora. I had to laugh out loud at your last line. I’m going to use it on every A**clown I encounter…..”I’m sorry, you are like a really bad credit card offer with a penis attached!!” Haha
MaryC
on 11/02/2010 at 5:51 pm
@SaraK….my thoughts exactly.
trinity
on 11/02/2010 at 9:51 pm
This is a great post, sums up things nicely.
NML what does this mean or what type of person does this below?
My X partner used to do this weird very confusing thing where because he was quite jealous and possesive he would create all these expectations, rules on what we can and cant do. Id get use to doing things a certain way, or talking to certain people, not using facebook or what ever. Then slowly he would change the rules but not tell me about it. For instance start talking to a guy that i was not really aloud to talk to because he felt threatend and jealous or start using facebook. Then as you can imagine id get a bit confused and upset because what he had set up was now no longer happening and with out my knowledge and obviously the only dam reason i was doing it was to make him feel comfortable and hopefully he would be able to see that he could trust me. But heres the real kicker, because id be upset and confused he would then blame me and say that i was the one with control, jealousy and trust issues 🙁 It was so confusing for me. Because he was setting and up and then changing the rules all the time with out my knowledge, it felt like lies, secrets or something odd? So his issues somehow became my issues:( If he had sat down and said, hey im starting to feel i can trust you more now and would like us to be able to use facebook or talk to as a certain person,then id would have been happy and actually excited that the ealtionship was growing and moving 4wards. It was almost like he wanted to be able to do things but didnt want me to? not sure?
As you readers already know my X was always blowing very extreme hot or very extreme cold. When i look back on my relationship with him, it was bloody horrible and difficult. 1.5 years together, 6 months parted and 3.5 months of NCR and i have no desire to go back in any capacity, friends aquantices, nothing. When he dumped me i felt like i was going to die and now im thankful he did 🙂 Even at work now, i barely register he exists, im pretty proud of myself. This site has really helped me because you vaildated my feelings and helped me sort through the mess, confusion, the self blame and sheer anxiety left behind. He left with no real explanation and was happy to let me believe it was pretty much my fault.
As a footnote i no i did the wrong thing by pandering to his needs, isolating myself to a degree to make him feel more comfortable. At the time he seemed like such a lovely guy, who had been hurt and i new that he would eventually see that im a very loyal and trustworthy person and that we could then both together add new things to our realtionship to open it up to more trust.
Take care ladies xxxxxxx
Aurora
on 11/02/2010 at 10:52 pm
metsgirl: a good smart-ass remark always comes in handy:)!
.-= Aurora´s last blog ..Character Assassination =-.
Laura
on 12/02/2010 at 4:44 pm
This was a perfect analogy! Sometimes the terms and conditions degrade into something that sounds good, but in fact are another condition that sets you up for more debt.
My ex pulled this on me (after priming me for long term marriage discussions): “I just think we need to take a step back and reestablish a firm foundation of friendship before we proceed to the next level. I just love and respect you too much, and when we do take that plunge, I want it to last a lifetime…”
Oh..he was good…
I fell for it, hook, line, and sinker. I’m still paying the interest on that one!
Excellent post!
LuckySweet
on 12/02/2010 at 11:07 pm
Hi Laura,
I’m still paying interest on that line too! My ex was really good at making me feel like I was the contolling one when he was renegotiating terms. The promise ring was just to keep me from seeing the real him. I fell for it! The promise ring was definitely not an investment with a return of an engagement ring. The return was an even bigger assclown.
I also bought (some really early red flags) – “my father told me he’d kick me out of the house if you broke up with me.” Oh well, I just have to move on. I deserve better than that!
Happy Valentine’s everyone!
Kathy G.
on 13/02/2010 at 10:22 pm
NML, I think maybe that you were BORN to help women with relationships, and to guide them to better protect themselves and make better choices. This cannot help but make for a better society and a better world. I have benefited GREATLY from reading your work. Do not ever stop. I am so proud of you. And also proud of all the readers who are wising up. Rock on!
@Aurora Assumptions are so dangerous as you’ve discovered and in reality, you can only really start making assumptions when you 1) have boundaries and 2) have a solid base to work off. Bit by bit, block by block, you’re building a healthier picture. “Now, even if I never try to get out there and date again, I SWEAR I WILL NEVER ACCEPT ANOTHER DODGY CREDIT CARD OFFER WITH A PENIS ATTACHED IN MY LIFE AGAIN EVER (lol).” – brilliant x
@Skelly Don’t make his problems your problems. Instead focus on ensuring that anything you contributed is being dealt with so that you don’t fall in sync with someone who behaves in this way again. We can’t change others – we can only adapt ourselves or focus our attentions on more worthy partners. Take care!
@mE I think hindsight gives wonderful 20:20 vision. He totally had a relationship on his terms and he would have let himself off the hook on the basis that he gave you a heads up and you were still around. However a decent guy in knowing that he wasn’t going to be around, would opt out when it became clear thatt you were not on the same page, especially when you kept trying to make you both a good fit. Not every prospective guy can be a good fit. If you do this, you’ll always be trying to fit square pegs in round holes.
@Crushed Hugs!!! It really was not your fault. He was shifting the goal posts and no matter what you did, it didn’t change the fact that he emphatically stated that he didn’t want a relationship and that he just wanted it on his terms. He’s a user and that’s not your fault – the key is not to give him anything to take advantage of. This type of person takes no responsibility for their behaviour – they think it’s their right to assume that they can just throw out the terms and by being in their presence, you’ll automatically be in sync. He’s an idiot.
@SaraK You’re absolutely right. I don’t mean that the person *is* better but he just thinks it’s a better option even if it isn’t.
@Tara Please keep the ball in your court and walk off it. This guy seems to be doing a slow fade with an side of keep your options open. He’s hanging at the edge of the court, toying with you, undecided if he wants to play.
@funms-the rebirth No problem at all!
@Brad K I responded to this over on your blog!
@metsgirl I agree – it’s hilarious!
@trinity I think it means that you were in one of those dangerous relationships with a controller – someone who was manipulative and passive aggressive and shifted the goalposts to suit himself without clueing you in. Whatever his motivations were, for instance, not wanting you but enjoying the control and keeping you in the background, he had no respect for you and every thing you did to accomodate him only served to legitimise what he felt his justifications were for his behaviour because by sticking around to put up with it, you conveyed that you didn’t care about yourself *enough*. That’s really what the whole thing means. I wouldn’t try to fathom out every last thing he did – what you wrote there is more than enough to let you know that he was a bad move. He wasn’t a nice guy – he was sneaky and manipulative.
@Laura Jaysus, he said that? What a sap! It sounds like you’ve had a lucky escape!
@LuckySweet Sounds like a very strange ‘man’. Promise ring? What kind of rinky dinky stuff is that? I’m surprised he didn’t try and slip you a friendship bracelet!
@Kathy G Wow! Thank you! I have a big beaming smile right now!
Trinity
on 21/02/2010 at 10:24 pm
Hi NML,
Thank you for your responce and i also hope your feeling better.
I think you are right, everything that he has done since has also shown me he is quite controlling, manipulative and passive aggressive. At the time i didnt see it, i saw a person who had been hurt and seemed to have some self confidence and trust issues. Id been in that same boat and i thought, what would i like someone to do for me? So i chose to make adjustments to ease him through in the hope he would see i was loyal and trustworthy and move from there. I thought at the time he was a really nice guy so i thought he was worth some work on my behalf. Now of course,i look back and things look so differently to me. Now i realise i was just with a very emotionally unstable, insecure, confused, maniplutaive and controlling person. That the whole hot and cold thing was actually used as punishment and to box me in. It reminds me of a quote i read somewhere “evil comes in many forms and just when you think you know it, it changes shape” For me the bad boys in the past were very obvious, ive realised back then i was actually emotionally unavailable which is why i chose them. I thought i new what to look out for, i also new that i was really open to a real relationship which is what i thought he had on offer. I was wrong. I can only hope that me cutting contact and walking away altogether, after trying the frienship thing, has shown him that I DO have respect for myself and I WONT allow someone to treat me bad. Im very thankful for the NCR as it has given me freedom. My X has nothing on offer that i want, need or require. Which means im free, free just to continue to move on, heal and learn. The spell has been broken and i see him for exactly what he always was. I believe thats why he and other AC’s try to hold on, with friendship and keep you confused, its because they fear you seeing the truth, seeing them for what they really are which validates what they really think about themselves, that they are no good. Its hard to see that in a perpetual state of confusion and emotional upset. I think im doing extremely well after 3.5 months of NCR especially since i work with him 🙂
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OhMyGod, this is so true!!!! I made such enormous assumptions, and categorically refused to change them FOR YEARS — living in total denial of the fine print.
The final blow from him about what he really didn’t want from me after all of my hopes and time put in and dreams, was so devastating I spent 6 months after that being sorry when I woke up in the morning and wishing I’d died in my sleep.
And since then, the last 2 years almost, I’ve spent several times a week (or every time you post) on your site, trying to learn, beginning to understand, beginning to see and put the pieces together.
Feeling differently about me, about being wiser, finally knowing what healthy boundaries are and what self-esteem feels like.
(At least a little bit, because I wasn’t in a relationship, just saying ‘no’ to some unsuitable men)
It’s funny, because I immediately roll my eyes and turn off if it is b.s. from a company or salesman. I smell the lie and trust nothing from them after that, the minute the double talking or evasiveness begins.
And some men really ARE like those credit card offers ! Too good to be true in the beginning and then a misery in the middle and then end where you end up underwater!
Ah, Natalie, you make me SEE every time.
Now, even if I never try to get out there and date again, I SWEAR I WILL NEVER ACCEPT ANOTHER DODGY CREDIT CARD OFFER WITH A PENIS ATTACHED IN MY LIFE AGAIN EVER (lol).
It’s just not worth it to make assumptions – it only hurts me in the long run, and oh my, oh my, oh my, I’m an “avoid pain” addict now:)
.-= Aurora´s last blog ..Character Assassination =-.
NML, amazing post and good timing. I was internalizing and feeling like my self esteem was in the toilet today. After reading this, I got pissed off, because that guy is a total manipulative jerk who only wanted a relationship on his terms. Thank you, I needed some strength tonight and this was the perfect article.
It’s so easy to internalize the failure of the relationship and think you did something wrong. But I have to remind myself that it’s his issues, not mine. He is not going to change and I cannot accept him as he is. It is not about love, but the fact I deserve better than crumbs.
ah, so true! i was with a man years ago that straight up said he was wasn’t looking for anything serious. after seeing each other for months, he told me he wasn’t even going to be in my state for more than eight months or so, yet i spent the entire rest of the time trying to ‘get’ him to reconsider. i mean, he kept coming around and hanging out, he kept calling, he kept sleeping with me and told me he wasn’t sleeping with anyone else, we had a good time, right? why would he if he didn’t want more. yeah, he was having a great time, having sex and companionship whenever it suited him because i was letting it happen, even though that was expressly what i was not looking for. working so hard to get some guy to see more in me was insane. why didn’t i either accept that it was what it was or go out and find someone who actually wanted to be in a relationship and would actually be around in a year?! the utter, utter stupidity. i completely ignored the fact that he TOLD me what was up because i wanted us to be a good fit and had already invested my time, body and heart. why was it a good decision to then throw even MORE of myself into an absolute void? so ridiculous.
My thoughts…I am so beaten down at this point that all I can think is that I wasn’t even good enough to get in touch with after I decided to do NC. It’s been a week and a half.
The credit card terms or prescription commercials here in the U.S. are such a perfect analogy. I tried so hard to meet the expectations that he had and kept changing until I had nothing left and in the end all he could say was that it was my fault that things didn’t work out. And actually got me to believe that that was true…
“or someone better comes along reminding him that he has other options”
Excellent post. One quibble: The someone who comes along isn’t “better.” Often, it’s just someone “additional.” Or, someone with even lower expectations.
Thanks again for BR.
I agree. I haven’t seen the someone else come along yet. But, I’m trying to prepare myself for that. I need to remember that I should have sympathy for the new girl. This leopard won’t change his spots. She will have to be younger and naive like I was. He’ll emotionally and mentally abuse her too. Why did it take so long for me to see how he really was. Don’t rely on potential. Rely on how a person factually is.
This is great. I went out on three dates with a guy recently and it was great–great chemistry, he was making references to a future, etc. and then he started blowing cold on the third date. It took him five days to contact me after that and it was a text at that. I let him know if he wanted to ask me out on a date, that would be great. And then I didn’t hear from him for another three days (another text: “love the snow” WTF!). I didn’t respond and won’t. Now the ball is in my court–it may only be a ping-pong ball, but, especially thanks to this post, I’m keeping it.
.-= Tara´s last blog ..Mr. Unavailable #28: Or Just Plain Crazy =-.
“Boundaries are your non negotiables. By knowing what you are not prepared to accept, you teach people how to treat you and what to expect.”……………
I needed that above statement….thank you!
.-= funms-the rebirth´s last blog ..Love Lingerie?????? =-.
I think a long term relationship is bigger than a personal choice.
If you meet someone, and get closer because of feelings, this has the makings of a decent to great episode of social recreation.
If you want something more, a shared life, a life partner – a mate, then you are looking at building a couple. And couples interact with their community. You will each, as a couple, be making choices and efforts outside the coupledom, because of being part of the couple – at work, shopping, at play, with friends, with family.
Selecting a mate has to take more into account. For one thing, you don’t just have to trust and respect him when he is with you – you have to be sure that he is competent, respectful – trustworthy, trusted, and respected – with those you know and those you meet.
One really big red flag is how he treats you with his friends and family – are you a visitor or a cherished guest? Are there indications he often has “dates” tagging along (! Might be a Perpetual Dater!), or does he have no friends or contact with family (! Might be *unable* to connect emotionally!) or pets? Is he proud of you, like a trophy of some kind (!), is he possessive that you don’t talk or contact anyone (! Isolation issue!), or is he genuinely making you and his relationship to you a part of his private and social life?
Do your friends find him substantial as a member of the community, does he have a life (do you?) socially and personally, outside the dating scene?
How he behaves with others doesn’t matter much between the sheets (or it gets really kinky really quick). But if you want someone for the long haul, then you need to know who he is and where you stand with him. One good way to do that is to find out where you stand when he is with friends, family, and community. Few people can sham and manipulate everyone, everywhere, and still seem genuine. That is the place, socially and within the community, to look for more red flags. Does he see a role for you in his life, or only in bed? Do you matter to him only skin to skin, or out in public, too?
.-= Brad K.´s last blog ..tslr: Spouse choice, change, and surviving. =-.
@ Aurora. I had to laugh out loud at your last line. I’m going to use it on every A**clown I encounter…..”I’m sorry, you are like a really bad credit card offer with a penis attached!!” Haha
@SaraK….my thoughts exactly.
This is a great post, sums up things nicely.
NML what does this mean or what type of person does this below?
My X partner used to do this weird very confusing thing where because he was quite jealous and possesive he would create all these expectations, rules on what we can and cant do. Id get use to doing things a certain way, or talking to certain people, not using facebook or what ever. Then slowly he would change the rules but not tell me about it. For instance start talking to a guy that i was not really aloud to talk to because he felt threatend and jealous or start using facebook. Then as you can imagine id get a bit confused and upset because what he had set up was now no longer happening and with out my knowledge and obviously the only dam reason i was doing it was to make him feel comfortable and hopefully he would be able to see that he could trust me. But heres the real kicker, because id be upset and confused he would then blame me and say that i was the one with control, jealousy and trust issues 🙁 It was so confusing for me. Because he was setting and up and then changing the rules all the time with out my knowledge, it felt like lies, secrets or something odd? So his issues somehow became my issues:( If he had sat down and said, hey im starting to feel i can trust you more now and would like us to be able to use facebook or talk to as a certain person,then id would have been happy and actually excited that the ealtionship was growing and moving 4wards. It was almost like he wanted to be able to do things but didnt want me to? not sure?
As you readers already know my X was always blowing very extreme hot or very extreme cold. When i look back on my relationship with him, it was bloody horrible and difficult. 1.5 years together, 6 months parted and 3.5 months of NCR and i have no desire to go back in any capacity, friends aquantices, nothing. When he dumped me i felt like i was going to die and now im thankful he did 🙂 Even at work now, i barely register he exists, im pretty proud of myself. This site has really helped me because you vaildated my feelings and helped me sort through the mess, confusion, the self blame and sheer anxiety left behind. He left with no real explanation and was happy to let me believe it was pretty much my fault.
As a footnote i no i did the wrong thing by pandering to his needs, isolating myself to a degree to make him feel more comfortable. At the time he seemed like such a lovely guy, who had been hurt and i new that he would eventually see that im a very loyal and trustworthy person and that we could then both together add new things to our realtionship to open it up to more trust.
Take care ladies xxxxxxx
metsgirl: a good smart-ass remark always comes in handy:)!
.-= Aurora´s last blog ..Character Assassination =-.
This was a perfect analogy! Sometimes the terms and conditions degrade into something that sounds good, but in fact are another condition that sets you up for more debt.
My ex pulled this on me (after priming me for long term marriage discussions): “I just think we need to take a step back and reestablish a firm foundation of friendship before we proceed to the next level. I just love and respect you too much, and when we do take that plunge, I want it to last a lifetime…”
Oh..he was good…
I fell for it, hook, line, and sinker. I’m still paying the interest on that one!
Excellent post!
Hi Laura,
I’m still paying interest on that line too! My ex was really good at making me feel like I was the contolling one when he was renegotiating terms. The promise ring was just to keep me from seeing the real him. I fell for it! The promise ring was definitely not an investment with a return of an engagement ring. The return was an even bigger assclown.
I also bought (some really early red flags) – “my father told me he’d kick me out of the house if you broke up with me.” Oh well, I just have to move on. I deserve better than that!
Happy Valentine’s everyone!
NML, I think maybe that you were BORN to help women with relationships, and to guide them to better protect themselves and make better choices. This cannot help but make for a better society and a better world. I have benefited GREATLY from reading your work. Do not ever stop. I am so proud of you. And also proud of all the readers who are wising up. Rock on!
@Aurora Assumptions are so dangerous as you’ve discovered and in reality, you can only really start making assumptions when you 1) have boundaries and 2) have a solid base to work off. Bit by bit, block by block, you’re building a healthier picture. “Now, even if I never try to get out there and date again, I SWEAR I WILL NEVER ACCEPT ANOTHER DODGY CREDIT CARD OFFER WITH A PENIS ATTACHED IN MY LIFE AGAIN EVER (lol).” – brilliant x
@Skelly Don’t make his problems your problems. Instead focus on ensuring that anything you contributed is being dealt with so that you don’t fall in sync with someone who behaves in this way again. We can’t change others – we can only adapt ourselves or focus our attentions on more worthy partners. Take care!
@mE I think hindsight gives wonderful 20:20 vision. He totally had a relationship on his terms and he would have let himself off the hook on the basis that he gave you a heads up and you were still around. However a decent guy in knowing that he wasn’t going to be around, would opt out when it became clear thatt you were not on the same page, especially when you kept trying to make you both a good fit. Not every prospective guy can be a good fit. If you do this, you’ll always be trying to fit square pegs in round holes.
@Crushed Hugs!!! It really was not your fault. He was shifting the goal posts and no matter what you did, it didn’t change the fact that he emphatically stated that he didn’t want a relationship and that he just wanted it on his terms. He’s a user and that’s not your fault – the key is not to give him anything to take advantage of. This type of person takes no responsibility for their behaviour – they think it’s their right to assume that they can just throw out the terms and by being in their presence, you’ll automatically be in sync. He’s an idiot.
@SaraK You’re absolutely right. I don’t mean that the person *is* better but he just thinks it’s a better option even if it isn’t.
@Tara Please keep the ball in your court and walk off it. This guy seems to be doing a slow fade with an side of keep your options open. He’s hanging at the edge of the court, toying with you, undecided if he wants to play.
@funms-the rebirth No problem at all!
@Brad K I responded to this over on your blog!
@metsgirl I agree – it’s hilarious!
@trinity I think it means that you were in one of those dangerous relationships with a controller – someone who was manipulative and passive aggressive and shifted the goalposts to suit himself without clueing you in. Whatever his motivations were, for instance, not wanting you but enjoying the control and keeping you in the background, he had no respect for you and every thing you did to accomodate him only served to legitimise what he felt his justifications were for his behaviour because by sticking around to put up with it, you conveyed that you didn’t care about yourself *enough*. That’s really what the whole thing means. I wouldn’t try to fathom out every last thing he did – what you wrote there is more than enough to let you know that he was a bad move. He wasn’t a nice guy – he was sneaky and manipulative.
@Laura Jaysus, he said that? What a sap! It sounds like you’ve had a lucky escape!
@LuckySweet Sounds like a very strange ‘man’. Promise ring? What kind of rinky dinky stuff is that? I’m surprised he didn’t try and slip you a friendship bracelet!
@Kathy G Wow! Thank you! I have a big beaming smile right now!
Hi NML,
Thank you for your responce and i also hope your feeling better.
I think you are right, everything that he has done since has also shown me he is quite controlling, manipulative and passive aggressive. At the time i didnt see it, i saw a person who had been hurt and seemed to have some self confidence and trust issues. Id been in that same boat and i thought, what would i like someone to do for me? So i chose to make adjustments to ease him through in the hope he would see i was loyal and trustworthy and move from there. I thought at the time he was a really nice guy so i thought he was worth some work on my behalf. Now of course,i look back and things look so differently to me. Now i realise i was just with a very emotionally unstable, insecure, confused, maniplutaive and controlling person. That the whole hot and cold thing was actually used as punishment and to box me in. It reminds me of a quote i read somewhere “evil comes in many forms and just when you think you know it, it changes shape” For me the bad boys in the past were very obvious, ive realised back then i was actually emotionally unavailable which is why i chose them. I thought i new what to look out for, i also new that i was really open to a real relationship which is what i thought he had on offer. I was wrong. I can only hope that me cutting contact and walking away altogether, after trying the frienship thing, has shown him that I DO have respect for myself and I WONT allow someone to treat me bad. Im very thankful for the NCR as it has given me freedom. My X has nothing on offer that i want, need or require. Which means im free, free just to continue to move on, heal and learn. The spell has been broken and i see him for exactly what he always was. I believe thats why he and other AC’s try to hold on, with friendship and keep you confused, its because they fear you seeing the truth, seeing them for what they really are which validates what they really think about themselves, that they are no good. Its hard to see that in a perpetual state of confusion and emotional upset. I think im doing extremely well after 3.5 months of NCR especially since i work with him 🙂