People who think that they are mighty and powerful and who think that they can force you to oblige their wants and in fact demands even if they are contrary to your own needs etc., and all while encroaching on your rights as a human being, aren’t so powerful and mighty once they realise that you don’t give a beep. It’s at that point that they realise that you just don’t care that much that you’d do you an injustice just so that you can prop up their ego.
What you must understand about people who rely on a sense of superiority on their part or obvious signs of you feeling inferior, is that they pull their moves and if you respond by, for example, looking for validation or claiming that you love them or looking for them to be who you hoped for them to be, they realise that you care too much. Their own rationale and attitude does not make sense but at the point where you are willing to continue engaging them and/or trying to make sense out of nonsense, your rationale (and attitude) does not make sense either so they are then able to exploit this.
At the point where you’re saying or showing, “I don’t care and in fact, I don’t care that you think you’re mighty and powerful; I don’t care if you’re going to leave or find somebody else or disapprove or whatever”, they lose their power and mightiness plus they end up feeling wrong-footed. They realise that you’re a grown-up and that you are not reliant on them for definition and vitality.
It’s not in the playbook; it’s not in their predictions. They don’t know what to do with this kind of mindset because they rely on what they perceive as weakness. They rely on exploiting the vulnerability that exists when a person is not responding to boundary breaches with ‘increased security’ (read: more boundaries and basically having an active response). They interpret a passive response or your seeming positivity and hope even in the face of shady behaviour, as a green light for code red behaviour. This all screams, I care too much. It says, I care so much that I will derive value from my interaction with you and my self-image and future perception and actions will be impacted by you.
Present the person who has enjoyed the fringe benefits of you caring too much with facts, indifference, and in fact resistance to their bullsh*t (BS), and they have to move away from you or at the very least keep their distance. They learn to stay behind the line and put these same attentions on someone else who is more receptive which before, when you cared too much, would have been a devastating thought but now is a the welcome realisation that they’re not your problem anymore.
When a person or group of people have built their security on this idea and image that they are to be seen and treated a certain way and then they’re not, if they cannot ‘make’ you, they will find it much more attractive to cast you out or keep a safe distance because you are a threat. For bullshitters, it’s very exhausting and in fact bloody scary, to deal with people who smell BS from a mile off and laugh in the face of it.
When you care too much about somebody who cares too little about you or just the impact of their actions upon others, you are pumping them up. You’re doing it in the hopes that you’ll be rewarded for your collusion. You’re waiting for the tipping point.
If someone has had the luxury of bullsh*tting you on occasion, they will feel safe in doing so again, possibly upping the ante to what in retrospect will be seen as new levels of ridiculousness. They think that you care so much that it will give you rose tinted glasses and a fur coat of denial. Looking back, this realisation that they were starting to feel near invincible and possibly getting increasingly sloppy in their treatment of you, can really grate because as you play back your mental tapes and allow what they’ve been doing to sink in, you can feel like a fool for having believed.
It’s OK to care what people think about you but never care so much that you 1) edit the hell of yourself or 2) stop doing what you know is right, or 3) forget to take your own needs, expectations, desires, feelings and opinions into account.
It’s not that you need to stop caring about others, and you definitely don’t need to give up on trust and any positive qualities, but what you do need to learn through being more boundaried is where to invest your goodness. Roll back when you are not experiencing a mutual relationship. There is a line with caring and it’s very possible, and in fact necessary, to care about you as well as caring about others and if you cannot do both or you’re caring about others in the hope of getting some of it to flow back your way and fill voids, it’s a code red alerting you to the fact that you are avoiding a personal responsibility while giving this person way too much credit and power. You don’t know where they end and you begin. When you’re caring to that level where they have the power to make or break you, this sense of caring about them is a mirror that’s showing you that you’re not caring enough about you.
Locate that responsibility; locate where you may be inadvertently victimising you by continuing to engage and you disarm the power that you and they have thought that they have over you. You stop caring more for fear than you do about truth and peace.
Each and every time I find myself in a frustrating and painful situation, it changes, not because I manage to ‘make’ the other person change but because I change my response to it by identifying where I’ve become too focused on caring too much about something that doesn’t warrant it. Options open up but these people also stop being so powerful simply because they only really were in my mind and this changes the dynamic. You stop almost cowering around these people and playing it small.
You do not need to give you up in order to experience love, acceptance, and respect. You do not need to stop feeling. What you do need, though, is to see more to your interpersonal relationships than ‘servicing’ others so that you can be ‘chosen’ and finally feel that you’re in a position to live because all it does is give people an overinflated sense of their own importance while diminishing your self-worth. No one is that special that you should do that to yourself.
Outdone yourself again, Nat. This is an incredible companion piece to recovery from codependency.
Note to self: my dad, and all those like him, are not the end-all, be-alls of the universe. They are little self-isolated men puttering around with the opinion that they know everything and deserve everything. I don’t have to live in deference to them. I can tell myself every day that they are mistaken, and they don’t, in fact, deserve ANYTHING that they don’t earn.
T
on 06/05/2015 at 2:09 pm
No Kiddin. So spot on. I can hardly stand it but I need to hear it. \
T
dee
on 07/05/2015 at 6:20 pm
I hope you don’t mind me copying your note to self as my daily mantra, Tangerine. Brilliant.
Sophia
on 05/05/2015 at 11:54 pm
I so needed this. I was recently told “I was perfect” only to be stood up and told I was perfect again. Then another guy who chose to be with someone else took it upon himself to text me “you’re good a woman. I hope you get what you want” 2 years since I saw him. The message is clear stop engaging.
Why
on 06/05/2015 at 9:19 am
Sophia, if a that “You are perfect” guy is someone whom you’ve recently met, then it’s a clear sign too. Any superlative and especially a flow of super superlatives from a someone whom you don’t know is form of manipulation. They don’t know you enough to make such a statement. They don’t have enough information to make such a claim and are messing with your head.
BermieGirl
on 05/05/2015 at 11:55 pm
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Awesome timing to come home and read this. So validating!
Just stepped back from an unhealthy situation none too soon. The flags were there at the beginning and I made my usual mistake of not trusting my gut and giving the benefit of the doubt to someone who had not earned my trust when it should have come to me first!
Now I need to put this all in practice next time and STICK TO IT!! lol
Crazybaby
on 06/05/2015 at 12:06 am
Brilliant Natalie! I started off reading this thinking about how my mother and son pull this crap on me, then had to reread it in the context of my love relationships and realised just how much power I give them to play these games with me. I’ve stupidly believed giving love and devotion by the bucket load no matter what, would make them value me more, when experience has shown me they value me less. I’ve been learning to stand up for myself more, but I clearly need to lower my tolerance to this kind of BS. The good ones do actually feel bad when you call them out, and try to make it up to you. The bad ones just blame you further to desperately try and reclaim their ‘power’ over you. I need to reread this post frequently!
Louise
on 06/05/2015 at 12:42 am
This said so much to me that I have never heard. You seem to understand exactly where I am at like no one else has (not even my therapist). I especially feel that you have said, maybe what my family has been saying for a while, however, you put it in a way I can totally “GET” “When you’re caring to that level where they have the power to make or break you, this sense of caring about them is a mirror that’s showing you that you’re not caring enough about you.” I have been broken over and over again in the past year and this will help me to regain my dignity so THANK YOU!
Karen
on 06/05/2015 at 12:56 am
Natalie,
There really are good reasons to get rid of assclown relationships from your life.
After more than 20 years, I recently ran into on Facebook a former friend from high school. We used to connect romantically every 10 years for short spell. At 18, 28 and 38 years of age we got together for a few days, weeks or months. By age 38 she had become a successful physician, but she had also developed a serious drinking problem that drove us apart for more than 20 years.
In catching up with her over the last few months, I learned she’d retired a few years ago from medicine due to health problems (caused partly by all that drinking). Her liver problems, fibromyalgia, and a few other diseases that required daily meds made drinking even a thimble of wine potentially fatal for her. I was relieved to hear it. I’m a very light drinker, so I can take it or leave it.
I suspect she’s been to rehab or AA because she certainly thinks and talks as if the 12 steps are familiar to her. I went to al anon meetings for 10+ years and I am fluent in 12 step-ese.
After the hell I went through with that conniving, married she-devil last year, it’s been so refreshing to have normal, drama free conversations, and when a snag comes along we both own our parts, don’t try to blame the other and really listen hard to each other and try to muddle through and articulate our feelings.
For instance she forgot my burthday last week and it was daunting to figure out how to tell her how hurt I felt. But I tried just telling her how hurt I felt, and she was very apologetic and good at helping me get through it, and over it.
The point is, whatever this is or may become allows us both the time and space we need; we don’t feel obligated to sacrifice anything to spend time together, and we are affectionate and loving in words and deeds.
The other day I told her that I tended to be too generous with my time and little gifts, snail mail cards, poems, drawings, and just too much romantic stuff all at one time, and it used to always leave me feeling like I did all the giving and left the other woman feeling like she couldn’t ever catch up or match my displays of affection.
I noticed she mentioned she was feeling a little panicky about catching up, so I told her I had spotted the tendencies I described above and not to worry because I knew it was my stuff to clean up. She knows I’ve been on a journey to find and keep good self esteem, and since she’s my first one to practice it on, I warned her there may be a few dips in the road. She said she was fine with that–she’d take that risk.
So, I told her I would ease up on all the schmaltz, and that we needn’t feel obligated to talk on the phone for three hours at a time, or even every day. I said let’s start from scratch and erase the tote board. She sounded relieved, but the best part was when she said, “Thank you for taking care of your end of things, and I promise to try my best to do the same. You make it very easy to work through our s*it together.”
It was better than a dozen roses.
Loving and/or liking someone is not painful. Pain is painful.
There is an old Buddhist slogan that says something like: “When you meet someone who makes your heart pound, your palms sweat and you tingle all over, that’s not love. Love is when you meet the person who makes you feel calm, peaceful and joyful inside.”
As I said, I have no idea where this is headed, but that’s fine. That’s because the present feels great and it seems perfect for right now. No drama, just lots of humor, intellectual and artistic stimulation. And some really nice flirting.
So True
on 10/05/2015 at 10:45 pm
Wait, if she’s conniving and married, why does it matter if she forgot your birthday, to the point that you must tell her that you are hurt?
Do you want this person in your life or out of it?
Heather
on 06/05/2015 at 1:41 am
Thank you! I am realizing I look around for someone to make me feel “chosen”. My dad choose my mom and sister over me, leaving me feeling abandoned and alone. I long to feel special and chosen– and I will put up with bad behavior in hopes to finally be the one to be chosen. In fact, I find myself in love triangles quite often — replaying the triangle of me/Dad/and mom, or me/Dad/sister, and I’m usually not the one chosen.
cindy
on 06/05/2015 at 8:48 am
That’s me too, Heather. I realised it a few years ago… I’ve constantly recreated situations where I’m the ‘other’ woman, like I was with Dad. However, I realised more recently that Dad didn’t love my sister either – he used her to make himself feel god-like. She was his little adorer. She died in 2010. Mum died in 1997. I’m still standing… As long as we can keep looking within, healing old hurts, feeling our feelings… We’re the strong ones, Heather, and we don’t need Daddy’s approval anymore. xx
Thanks for this article, Natalie. Very timely and affirming of behaviours I’m slowly letting go…
dee
on 07/05/2015 at 6:22 pm
Heather, you ARE special. Look in the mirror and tell yourself just that. I’ve begun a practice of looking in the mirror, saying my name and telling myself ‘I love you.’ It begins with us choosing ourselves. <3
Marion
on 06/05/2015 at 2:25 am
Spot on! Currently in the aftermath of realizing yet another has seen fit to go fishing before dispensing of his current Girlfriend, namely me! Confronted him with the facts and haven’t heard from him in 3 days. Giving the benefit of the doubt is fine, but never throw caution to the wind, I say. The disappearing act is always a pathetic excuse for not facing up to their own actions.
Good luck to the woman he’s currently smoozing, it will be short lived, like his ability to hold any woman to his self centered demands, whilst not giving anything in return.
“The good ones do actually feel bad when you call them out, and try to make it up to you. The bad ones just blame you further to desperately try and reclaim their ‘power’ over you” indeed crazybaby, tolerance level lowered again!
Mamaroach
on 06/05/2015 at 2:34 am
Wow this resonated with me. I wear myself out doing for husband, kids and mother just win approval I seem to never get. I keep hoping that one day a few of them will wake up and realize how they have been acting but I am realizing now I have to do this myself. Thanks for the post and the permission to put me first.
Reggie
on 06/05/2015 at 2:52 am
Powerful tools indeed. We work so hard to please. We beat ourselves up for not getting it right or not doing enough. In the end we settle for the emotional crumbs, hug, sex a moment of nice. Yes, we men are raised to “fix” things broken and if it ain’t fixed we up the ante. It’s part of being a man. So, our deal is that in our quest to do what the world expects of us, to lead, we sometimes neglect ourselves to take care of them, her, our work. So, thank you for posting.
Selkie
on 06/05/2015 at 3:00 am
Right now, I find myself dealing with someone who is not on the up and up (my gut is screaming at me) and behaving in a way that is hurtful and disrespectful to me. I am told they are innocent mistakes and to quit looking for things to be wrong and to just trust them. I end up debating why I find them wrong and then am told that they are sorry they caused these insecurities in me. It still feels like they are not accepting any blame or responsibility for their own actions and are trying to spin it as me over reacting. I don’t believe I am. So, I find myself debating again and trying to explain why such and such is hurtful and confusing. They will not address the specific ‘thing’ but keep saying that they made an innocent mistake and won’t acknowledge the damage its done. I am feeling myself go down a familiar bad road of being the woman who talks too much and over explaining the basics of how humans should treat each other, especially if they claim to care.
Why
on 06/05/2015 at 9:33 am
Selkie, damn it is so strange to read this from you 🙂 You are such a badass and give such amazing advice here on BR. But I understand we’re all human.
It’s hard to say much without knowing the context of this relationship you describe. But what you wrote sounds a bit disturbing and too familiar…I am now at a point where “I am sorry you feel this way” or “I am sorry this (aka the thing that THEY did) made you feel insecure” or whatever other variation of this is a red flag to me. Ok, one strike – I give this person the benefit of a doubt. Second strike – they are out.
I KNOW I am at a place where I am sensitive and anxious now. I know that I listen attentively, sometimes TOO attentively to signs and words and actions. But within my history and my psych state right now I say that this is a mind f*ck. Relaying the blame and not really apologizing. They are apologizing to you for YOU. We can only apologize for US and our actions. So what is this now? You’re feeling hurt and now you get a mini guilt trip aka this apology?
I’d be really watching what this person does in the future and how it makes you feel.
Mephista
on 06/05/2015 at 3:22 pm
I’ve also tended to give everybody a benefit of a doubt once. Now I think I shouldn’t, at least in romantic relationships. Firstly, as Nat wrote, why would I give anybody an opportunity to reject me again, and secondly, almost by rule those who stood me up once also stood me up second time. So, I’ve developed a very low tolerance.
CJ
on 06/05/2015 at 11:15 am
Yes exactly know how this feels – explaining what common decency is and basic foundations of love. Is it our job to parent these fully functional adult beings? Please, they know well enough. They just play dumb so they can get away with it and let us think we’re teaching them something while they escape the real consequences of their actions. Eventually though you will realise you have already addressed an issue they keep selfishly repeating and it will dawn on you that the only one who needed anything explained, was yourself about the wool being pulled over your eyes. Save yourself the time and the humiliation. Listen to your gut. Don’t tolerate bad treatment right from the start, life is too short.
Pauline
on 07/05/2015 at 9:38 pm
Selkie
Listen to your gut, it doesn’t lie to you.
Nat’s post on ‘one shot, keep it simple’ is something I have taken to heart.
If someone tries to blame you for their actions, lies to you, says they will do something and then don’t, stands you up when you have made arrangements to meet etc etc, take it as read they will do it again and again even though they promise they won’t.
I have saved myself countless hours of frustration trying to deal with people who are incapable of being honest, ie, they talk the talk but can’t walk that talk.
One shot, that’s all they get. I just smile and say no thanks to any further plans they try to make.
It’s just people pleasing and looking for validation etc to continue with someone who treats you without care, trust and respect. It’s quite soul destroying to continue loving someone who will never feel the same about you no matter what you do or say. You end up being used and abused and lose yourself.
Wish to God I had known Nat Lue and BR when I met the AC, this post is the story of my relationship with that man.
So glad I finally woke up.
Selkie
on 08/05/2015 at 7:25 am
Thank you all for the replies. I had an unsettling week which has left me not thinking quite clearly. I had surgery last week and now have family visiting from out of state. This issue I mentioned above is with the man I was dating that I mentioned a few posts ago who I innocently stumbled upon his recently viewed ex wives porn pics while were trying to watch a movie on netflix. He pleaded and begged, said it was a huge misunderstanding, he was trying to delete them, couldn’t get them to delete, yada yada yada. Anyway, I actually felt bad for him and gave him the benefit of the doubt, sorta, I still doubted, but I gave him a chance to prove himself like he was pleading for. Suck it and see, Ladies, Suck it and see. A few nights ago at my house his phone keeps ringing, same number, he keeps hanging it up. He finally answeres it after three calls in 5 minutes. It’s a woman, ( he says his neighbor is drunk calling him ) he tells her he cant talk ( he is also acting nervous as hell and stuttering by this point, my mother witnessed it ) because he is at a “friends” house, as he is rubbing my feet and telling me how much he loves. Loves me…..yet I am just a friend when a woman calls him. He proved himself enough for me right then and there. Done. Really. Suck it and see. Pauline…thank you for the reminder on Nat’s post about one shot. I need to read it again. I am still leap years away and better on the self care from several years ago, but still it hurts to be treated like this.
Done. Really done this time.
Selkie
on 08/05/2015 at 10:16 am
Wow. I just got a long email from him. After all his telling me I’m blowing things out of proportion, I am making him out to be a bad guy, he had nothing to do with this woman who called, she is just a neighbor, his slip calling me his friend was innocent, I was mistrusting fo him and he didn’t deserve it, that it was my insecurities, he is so honest, he loves me, he would never hurt me, etc, etc…..he reveals after 5 freaking days of this bullshit ( and me NOT falling for any of it, I have not given in this time )he rejected her before he met me, she now stalks him, he is afraid of her. Yet I heard him tell her he would talk to her later that weekend after he told he I was a friend of his. Lies. and more lies. all of it. He previously lied all about her and tried to make me think I was throwing hollow accusations, over reacting, being mean and jealous, and that I was wrong and didn’t see what I saw and hear what I heard. I still think he is lying and this whole stalker thing is a lie too. He’s most likely screwing her. I anguished over this all week while feeling like shit after surgery and doubting my own gut when it was screaming so loud I was sick. How can these men do this?
I cannot describe the sickness I feel inside me right now. My gut was so exactly on, spot on, and I let myself get dragged down in this man’s crazy drama. Although I feel sick inside…..knowing my gut was spot on makes me see how I CAN trust myself. I can! The lesson in all of this that I am seeing like a bright bright light is that I have to listen to myself, my own voice, and not waver. Knowing I was able to see the truth, actually see through him and know at a deep level he was no good, makes me want to stand an rejoice at the power I HAVE. I didn’t trust myself right away, but what a powerful lesson for me to trust myself in the future. Sorry to ramble. I have had another epiphany and have turned a corner in my own growth. Too bad I had to get my feelings hurt to see it, but I will survive. I always do.
Stephanie
on 08/05/2015 at 3:36 pm
Selkie,
Leave this man alone! He is at a minimum dishonest. Your scernario reminds me of the ex-EUM. Sad to say, I was like the girl who was calling your guy and yes he was seeing me and sleeping with me. That’s why I was angry. He was lying to the woman he was seeing and probably telling her I was crazy and a stalker, but he forgot to tell her he was calling me and seeing me too.
Everytime you see this man after he pulls this stuff he believes he has pulled one over on you! Let him go a deal with someone else. I will bet you a million bucks when you stop talking to him, he is going to start dating her!
Selkie
on 08/05/2015 at 5:00 pm
I have not seen him since but did vacillate back and forth with myself after each text or email from him telling me I was looking for things that weren’t there. It made me doubt my own perception, but I came back to my gut each time. I have responded to a few of his texts but have not contacted him. Thank you for sharing your story with me. I believe you are right about him, and it is what I knew in my heart along. He is still at it, texting ilove yous, but I have not responded since the “I didn’t lie but I lied” email.
Say Something
on 08/05/2015 at 7:00 pm
Selkie,
“The lesson in all of this that I am seeing like a bright bright light is that I have to listen to myself, my own voice, and not waver. Knowing I was able to see the truth, actually see through him and know at a deep level he was no good, makes me want to stand an rejoice at the power I HAVE. I didn’t trust myself right away, but what a powerful lesson
for me to trust myself in the future.”
The future is now. For all you know, you saw her the night of netflix gone awry. Keep listening to YOURSELF.
Chutzpelady
on 14/05/2015 at 10:11 am
Block him!
Selkie
on 14/05/2015 at 4:28 pm
He is blocked, I did that pretty early after the incident. Now I get overnighted letters and cards in the mail.
Veracity
on 14/05/2015 at 10:32 pm
Trying to wear you down. Good job staying firm. The fact that he is not respecting your boundaries is very revealing. Hope you’re feeling better from your surgery.
Oona
on 09/05/2015 at 11:42 pm
People can do this because they aren’t taking responsibility for what they are doing – they are putting their responsibility on others all the time – which is why you must take responsibility for yourself and your needs in order to stop attracting them – too many chances being given here Selkie but we’ve all been there don’t beat yourself up – at least you are seeing them! – now you get to act on it and move on.
Pauline
on 10/05/2015 at 1:21 am
Selkie
You CAN trust yourself and that’s something no one will ever take away from you.
ALWAYS pay attention to your gut or instincts when something seems off because it will be.
If experience has taught me anything it is to listen to my gut or inner voice when I don’t feel comfortable with something being said or done. If I ignore my gut or try to rationalise the situation it comes back to bite me – every time.
Remember people unfold and we don’t know who they are when we first meet them. It takes time to find out what sort of person they are, if they are honest and genuine in their dealings with us and others. This isn’t something that can be bypassed and the fast forwarders and future fakers rely on us being swept off our feet by their level of attention, which as we know, is hiding who they really are, the assclown’s, EUM’s and the rest of the slippery creeps who always have a few girls on the go.
You’ve learned a very valuable lesson from this guy, you have your own back and you can trust yourself. The rest will start to fall into place a lot more easily.
Veracity
on 10/05/2015 at 12:37 pm
So, so True! Even if I don’t understand why my gut is telling me something’s off, I go with it now.
When you are unsure, say no.
I recently read that when we have under developed boundaries and are unsure about whether to say yes or no to something, we say yes. We should be saying no.
Doubt means don’t.
kee
on 10/05/2015 at 3:30 pm
wow Veracity and Pauline! Such strong statements!
I know I listened to my gut this year, I didn’t really know ‘why’ my mind kept saying no to my ex-EUM husband asking me back even though my heart was literally breaking into pieces as I was telling him this and crying on the phone to him (I was following something internally that had been so hurt in my subconscious that it was just putting up) red alert ‘say no’ signals in my mind all the time.
The best statement ever: DOUBT means Don’t! Love it :O) Thank you!
So True
on 10/05/2015 at 10:55 pm
Selkie, that is their go-to: “This woman is talking me!” – for proof of this “Why Does He Do That?” by Lundy Bancroft. It’s a cop-out. If this woman is in communication with him and he’s only now explaining himself (because you’ve had enough) it’s because he LIKES having unclear communication with you and all other women, because it suits him.
This man is at the very least exaggerating. He is also trying to triangulate you with this woman by suggesting that he is so in demand as a hunky man that women go CRAZY for him. Unlikely. He’s basically saying that he’s so gotdamn attractive in every way that women can’t help themselves (he’ll be saying the same thing about you unless you go No Contact with this fool). He encourages these women to contact him, guaranteed. If you want to understand more about the manipulation technique called triangulation, I suggest Googling it. It’s much less likely to work on you again. Good luck!
Selkie
on 11/05/2015 at 8:33 am
I am total NC and have blocked him after getting many page long texts telling me I am to blame for all of this, it has noting to do with any of his actions, and that I am being so mean to him, that this is a result of my insecurities. He isn’t even making sense at this point and the way he is trying to spin this as him being the victim is outrageous. I’m not sure about the triangulation, but I really don’t care at this point. I am actually a little worried he might be a bit crazy. Before I blocked him, he threatened to show up at my house if I continue to ignore him. My Mother is staying with me right now to help me after I had my surgery so I feel safe for the moment. So quickly things can change.
Say Something
on 08/05/2015 at 10:55 am
Selkie,
Hope you’re feeling well. No chairs were broken this time. So what next? How are you going to interact with him moving forward?
Selkie
on 11/05/2015 at 8:42 am
Hi Say Something. I am feeling better, thank you. I am not interacting with him, and just want this chapter to be closed.
Allison
on 11/05/2015 at 2:18 pm
Selkie,
I recently read the books the Verbally Abusive Relationship and In Sheeps Clothing. One was about verbal abuse and the other was about manipulation. A lot of the things you posted so far were similar to examples in those books. I think you’re perfectly right to go NC. This guy sounds as best a manipulative liar and worst crazy.
Oona
on 09/05/2015 at 11:33 pm
Selkie if they aren’t validating your spoken needs – whether they agree with you or not is bad enough but for them to actually give – unsolicited by you! – THEIR thoughts/projections on your reasons for your needs when they clearly don’t live in your head IS disrespectful and a mind game in order to shift the blame/guilt/shame, in order to – as you guessed it – take NO RESPONSIBILITY for their behaviour. Ignore and play the people pleaser with them at YOUR peril.
Be clear with them – its just their opinion – they don’t live in your shoes – repeat this and nothing else – and stop any explaining no matter what provocation from them to do so. They already know exactly what you are saying – they allow you to explain further in order to get future ammunition to smash any needs of yours completely/distract you entirely AWAY from your needs – they are not listening to genuinely understand and support YOU.
And by the way – who are you to be teaching them anything? – are you being paid for this excursion into education?!? You should not need to force teach someone who cares – anything – they either see and are keen to learn about you on their own or you withdraw from them and they find out themselves if they care/ not if they don’t care.
Selkie I feel you are describing a complete time waster – ever had the feeling you are on hold until you resolve this? – apply all the things they have made you feel – to them NOT yourself – and please move on.
Selkie
on 10/05/2015 at 4:45 am
Pauline and Oona,
Spot on, both of you. There were some amber flags that deserved a little more time to unfold, but the future faking was a red flag I KNEW was not healthy. I did know this, it registered in my head, but I admit I needed to see around the corner a little bit more before I truly acted on it. I had this fear that I might be wrong, that he might really be someone who saw me as that special one and that little dream was hard to let go of. I am taking responsibility for myself, and aside from maybe faultering a bit longer than I needed to, I feel proud of myself for doing the right thing without losing my head or footing. I did take action. He is out of the picture. I am actually feeling quite relieved to be done with him.
Elgie, if you are reading any of this. You were right.
Shelley
on 06/05/2015 at 3:26 am
Relating this to my mother. She wants me to go to Michigan to visit this summer. Each time I consider this I feel like I already know how it’s going to go and I feel once again “why am I going to spend all this time and money to be ridiculed and audience in her passive aggressive behavior. to listen to her berate every one I love and praise the grandson who does nothing but steal, lie and spend most of his time in prison. It’s just unreal. Then I feel that she was a good mother much of the time and no one is perfect and maybe I need to have some mercy. Then I end up back at square one! Ugh!
Oona
on 09/05/2015 at 11:49 pm
I have been there also, repeatedly – I now use ‘how do they make me feel the last time I saw them/were in that situation with them?’ as the litmus test for, can I trust or commit to them this time, question? Rather than some fantasy dream-scape from childhood about my childhood – which are possibly fantasy or selective at best, depending what mood/anxiety I was feeling/am in.
lookingforcarol
on 06/05/2015 at 3:45 am
Hey Natalie,
Again you have completely changed my life and I want you to know that re-building my self-esteem or even recognizing the fact it was nowhere where it needed to be has everything to do with you. I would love to read from you or get advice on dating as a single parent and the hardships that i’ve been experiencing with that not knowing or understanding my role and how to digest the fact I might have to move on with someone one day and my child might have a step father.
Monica
on 06/05/2015 at 3:59 am
the more I gave the less he valued me, so I ended things only to fall for his running hot. A few days ago I gave him the no contact rule and when I didn’t answer his calls and texts, he showed up and proposed. I said no, but talked it out with him. I feel sure he is future faking to win me back, and even if he did go through with it, I would still be in a one way relationship but just married. Please help me not second guess myself. perhaps you need some details to help. Started hot, then downgraded me to booty call when he revealed he wasn’t over the ex. Did booty call for a while until he did some boundary busting that I could not look past. He then talked me into taking him back and said he would be a bf because he really wanted me. I kept saying prove it, but he never did. When he refused to talk about the relationship I ended it again but said I’d continue to date him until after his b day (50) because we had tickets to Vegas. So he had a month or so to step up his game and he did go to couple counseling with me, but never did the homework. So now his b day is over and I said no contact, and he continually tried to contact me. he keeps saying he has improved, and that is true, but not nearly enough. And he engaged in the same type of boundary busting behavior in Vegas that he did before (sexually did something that he said he would not). So he proposes with no ring and actually I think he would do it due to the shock of turning 50 and the fact his family is bugging him about it and they like me. But I feel I’d be stuck in a marriage where I cooked, cleaned and waited on him and he would devalue me again because that’s what he does when he “has” me. I feel like his cries of I love you are just a way of trying to get me to stay and sort of an “I don’t want to lose my toy” kind of thing. Am I crazy to turn this down? is it possible that he would actually continue counseling and get better? I should add that his mother still cleans his house and does his laundry and that he has never been married. So I’d just be taking over mommy duties because he acts helpless. Even the sex is selfish, despite it’s being good. Can a truly selfish person actually ever think of others?
Crystal
on 06/05/2015 at 6:39 am
Monica,
Trust your instincts with this guy. My jaw dropped when you said he was 50, from his behaviour I was expecting about 22 (or 12).
What you write reminds me of an ex I had, in pretty much every way. We went to counselling also and he not only didn’t do the homework, he purposely did the opposite of what the counsellor directed him to. It was the ex’s way of passive-aggressively getting his way while pretending to make an effort to work on our relationship.
He was also a mama’s boy, dependent and fake-helpless when it suited him. Laziest person I ever met. Mommy even paid his rent for awhile even though he had a full-time job! He was 10 years older than I was and his family too was wondering why he had never been married at his age. Of course then he started to talk about marriage, but he was far too lazy to actually make any effort in that regard. Kind of like yours, not even buying a ring.
When I think of him, the only regret I have is not dumping him sooner. Your instincts are good. Trust yourself!
Kara (heartbroken and letdown in the USA)
on 06/05/2015 at 9:45 am
sounds like my current bf. only he gave me a ring after he proposed but I ended up giving it back because he was such a mean narcissist asshole. lol We are still together but barely and he even tried proposing to me again without the ring and then waffled out of the wedding and now acts like I am the bad person. Would you believe he is 61 and I am 53. I am seriously about to give up on men. I am beginning to think they are all just about useless . My bf is a player big time and he goes around telling every woman he meets he loves them like its just a regular every day thing. I think he believes in the old saying “Baby I think I love you, lie down I know I do. Right. He is definitely a Future Faker among other things such as being an open person who will have sex with anyone and will do anything and everything.
Elen
on 06/05/2015 at 11:20 am
Crystal,
I totally agree with you. Monica shall trust her instincts and her logic and not fall again for this guy.
I faced almost the same case in my personal life. An ex-boyfriend of 7 years, almost two years after breakup begs yet for another chance, but not doing any action showing that he has changed. He is almost 50 yrs old, never married, a mama’s boy (even if he claims otherwise) and when we had a relationship he kept seeing his ex (a married woman of course). I was always suspicious of him (he lways denied) but after the breakup I just stopped making excuses for his behaviour and I confronted him about her and he admitted everything. He was not respecting me when we were together and he keeps disrespecting me right now because he tries to make contact even if I have told him it is over and I don’t respond in any way.
I really don’t believe that he has changed or thta he will in the future and I am not going to wait to see. He has lost his control over me and he feels unworthy and this is the reason why he asks for yet another chance. I don’t intend to give him another minute in my life. The only problem is that I am still angry because of the way that he treated (cheating, disrespect, a lot of disappearing acts, passive-aggressive and so on) but I am on No Contact and I cannot direct my anger to him. But I have started caring about me more and my boundaries are now clear and cannot be busted by him. He is now totally predictable and piteous.
Why
on 06/05/2015 at 10:13 am
Monice, you KNOW the answers. They are RIGHT THERE in the comment you wrote. You just want to suspend your judgement and do not hear yourself. This is too much about him. What he says, what he does, then what he does not.
You say “he has improved, and that is true, but not nearly enough”. He is not even nearly enough for you.
Also, it seems like right now you’re bargaining with yourself and mistrust your own judgement: can you trust yourself that you had a reason to go NC with this man? That it was not just a volatile decision. TRUST YOURSELF. LISTEN to yourSELF. Please.
This man is a total mess. It’ll take years of counseling to just figure out why he acts in such an irrational way. Then, you can also come back to couple’s counselling. Do you want to waste years of your life hoping this guy (ugh, 50 year old man!) might be finally almost enough? There are men out there who are ALREADY enough and are not as exhausting as this person. He produces a lot of noise and caused a mess and I have a feeling it’s a ploy to cover his total lack of substance in regards to you and your relationship.
Diane
on 06/05/2015 at 2:19 pm
@Monica, is there really even a question here? Sounds like you already have it all figured out. Do not talk yourself out of what you already know.
Pauline
on 06/05/2015 at 10:41 pm
Monica
Time to let this guy go. I was surprised when you said he was 50 and had never been married. He’s a mamma’s boy, can’t grow up, show any real responsibility and his mum still cleans his house, does she buy his clothes and cook his dinner too.
I would say he’s never had a real relationship with a woman, he’s still a child.
Up to you if you want to continue seeing this man, but there are so many red flags and you’re trying to rationalise staying with him. Big bursts of effort on his part, then nothing.
You can do better.
dee
on 07/05/2015 at 6:29 pm
I agree with Crystal. You would be crazy to NOT turn this down. I’m dealing with a truly selfish EUM and while no, I do not think he’s a bad person, I do not believe he has the capacity for compassion or empathy. It’s like a missing chip and it looks like your EUM is the same way. Mine is almost 50 too and I keep reminding myself that if he hasn’t learned these basic traits by now, he never will. <3
So True aka DUMP HIM
on 10/05/2015 at 11:07 pm
Dee? Someone without “the capacity for compassion or empathy” defines a ‘bad person’. In fact those are the defining traits of a psychopath, most of which have never seen the inside of a jail. HTH
You don’t get what you deserve; you get what you tolerate.
So, so many people out there happily adopt sociopathic tactics to manipulate people. It’s a pity. This guy wants you when you’ve had enough of him, such that he’ll do something rash like proposing. You can never be secure in the relationship because he takes you for granted just when it’s time (as in healthy relationships) to grow closer with each other and relax into the relationship.
This guy – this guy wants to keep you confused and guessing, always on your toes for him. You can never relax and think clearly because you are in reaction to what he is doing and thinking. He wants to keep playing his guessing game. This man sounds emotionally abusive. He’ll do this with everyone. Don’t ever think you’re not good enough. This man would take Miss Universe for granted.
Catherine
on 06/05/2015 at 4:11 am
…”the welcome realisation that they’re not your problem anymore”…
I have discovered that this dynamic can occur in many different types of relationships. It most definitely is not exclusive to romantic relationships or those connections that have the potential to be romantic.
Case in point . . . I have this male”friend” . . .
Let me preface this by admitting that I used to be a textbook “Florence” – emphasis on the PAST tense now, though.
This “friend” of mine tested the waters early on in our relationship to see just how much boundary-busting he could get away with.
Initially, my reflex / trance reaction ( likely born of very old neural pathways ! ) was to acquiesce . . . “trim my sails”, if you will. Go along to get along.
The difference was that THIS time I was mindful enough to catch myself in the act of turning into a chameleon.
And with the most profound gratitude to you, Natalie, and the choir of healing voices from this site, I also realized that he was actively managing DOWN my expectations.
I could feel myself gradually becoming more and more invisible. At incredible personal cost, I may add.
NEVER AGAIN.
I began to define, patrol and enforce those authentic boundaries of mine. No confrontations were ever really necessary, either, because I discovered that I was actually rather indifferent to his opinion of me. I was able to handle everything with humour while remaining completely true to myself.
Sure enough, the intensity of his interactions began to wane ( this was never a romantic relationship ) and in almost the blink of an eye, he found a new girlfriend and proposed marriage to her within a few months.
This is where it has become REALLY interesting for me.
Predictably, the new girlfriend seems to be the cliche of a people-pleaser. She seems bound and determined to make this work ( she’s significantly older than my “friend” so I suspect there’s a fair bit of “last-chance saloon” thinking at play ) and will throw ANYONE under the bus who challenges her perception of reality.
She even asked her 20-year old son to move out because there was conflict.
…”the welcome realisation that they’re not your problem anymore”…
T
on 06/05/2015 at 3:15 pm
holy Catherine, I just wrote a whole bunch hear, but just read your post, and you said better than I could have dreamed to. Yes it definitely affects any sort of relationship…and what you said about what it cost you…this is probably the most resonant with me… this has cost me and I am still doing it, trying to find my way out…
Stephanie
on 06/05/2015 at 4:18 am
Indeed. I always find myself doing so much for the ones I care for. I’d like to think that I do it without a want or need for reciprocation… But often, I find myself silently fuming when they don’t give me a response that I “favour”.
I just end up feeling so exhausted and unloved.
A more recent situation would be me wanting to do almost anything that would make my ex make me an exception over his religion. I now understand that nothing I did or would’ve, would matter anyways because it wasn’t really the religion differences that was the issue. Anyways, 1 week into the break up I reached out to him wanting to know how he was. Still caring for him when I obviously shouldn’t have.
It’s now a month into the breakup and moving on is still a rocky rocky road. Some days you’re confident of putting everything behind you and moving forward with your life. Others, you shamefully know that if he came crawling back or even just said a measly ‘Hi’, you’ll let him in. Finding your website is a blessing though. It has helped me to understand my behaviour and the relationship I had with the ex.
Demke
on 06/05/2015 at 5:08 am
Such perfect timing. When I started not caring anymore, as usual, he disappeared, a switcheroo if you will. He’s always done that.
I’m sure he’ll try and reach out weeks or months from now. Who knows. Who cares. I made the decision to be done. It was hard. But I knew u could no longer be tortured.
So…. I changed my number, and blocked him in every which way. Regardless if he was ‘done’ and never wants to come around as always, it’s my decision that its over. It was very empowering. And whatever feelings come up, well, I guess I’ll just have to feel them and fight for me. Codependency w a jackass is very hard… And difficult to become completely unattached, however, the alternative in staying in something toxic, never going anywhere, and it feels far worse.
So. I
Monica
on 06/05/2015 at 6:44 am
also, he admitted that last time I broke up with him he “exaggerated” his feelings for me so that I would get back with him he also admits he considers cheating when ever we are not doing great (his history is full of cheating). We have only been together for 7 months. After I said no, he continued to contact me so I sent a very harsh text telling him to not contact me again. I’m starting to feel a bit bad about it, hurting his feelings, which is stupid. My head is also rationalizing his limited ability to be emotionally available as not his fault and other things that were nice about him. Especially how he recently did improve communications (although then he created distance too). I know going back would be throwing away my life for his. Yet it’s still tempting. Its like that little glimpse of availability and connection outweighs all the negative. But that picture of being an unappreciated housekeeper keeps me from acting on it. still need validation from other : ) say I’m doing the right thing.
Magpie
on 06/05/2015 at 8:22 am
Hi Monica, zero tolerance for any person who says that he could/might/or even should cheat when in a relationship with you. This is totally unacceptable. Really, pull that chain woman!
Diane
on 06/05/2015 at 2:24 pm
@Monica, you can be sure any man who actually admits he will likely cheat on you during any rough times WILL. In fact, he will probably instigate or simply make up rough times so he can justify cheating. He’s given you this gift of being upfront about his AC-ness. If you stick with him you can’t say you weren’t warned EXACTLY what is to come.
Veracity
on 06/05/2015 at 3:35 pm
Absolutely, Diane! I had a VERY bizarre job interview last year with the Director of HR of a small/medium size company. It felt like I was being punked. Towards the end he said “I can be passive aggressive.” I thought holy sh*t, thanks for the heads-up, buddy! The job was an ideal fit skills wise and I would have been making more money than I ever had, but the fact that he warned me that he can be passive aggressive, assured me that I was in for living hell and I was grateful for the information! Next!
Elgie R.
on 06/05/2015 at 2:53 pm
Funny, I was not shocked that this man was 50. He has been running from growing up his whole life. I used to say the EUM I know is 50 going on 13.
He’s now 54 going on 13.
Societal pressures cause women to think that marriage is the “brass ring”. That we’ve failed at the basics of life if we never bagged a legal mate. “OMG. I was never married. Horrors!”
Monica, your gut is speaking loudly. Everything you say will be true. You will take over the Mommy role, your needs will be mostly ignored, even more so than they are now, because men like this get worse after they “bag” you. I saw it happen to a coworker. Her boyfriend became a tyrant after he convinced her to give up her apartment and move in with him. She had misgivings, but did the “good man” rationalization in her head…..10 days after she moved in she was ready to move out. He became an emotionally abusive lout who did nothing around the place and expected her to wait on him hand and foot while he did as he pleased. My coworker had left a bad marriage, was a single mother to her daughter, and was taking care of her responsibilities quite well on her own…but she bought into the “being rescued” fantasy and let this “good man” with a “good job” convince her to ignore her gut.
Never ignore the gut.
Magpie
on 06/05/2015 at 8:19 am
God, I love this woman – that’s you Natalie. After dropping my son at school this morning I felt like a BR fix and this was perfect for me.
Now, one month plus out of a relationship that I’d been trying to end for years I can tell you all that the change you will feel when the abuser – he was in my case – is out of your life is remarkable.
I have no idea what ‘happened’ (that’s not true, I do …) over those four years, but it was as NML writes here, he had all the power and I became a shell of myself. I stopped everything that made me feel not only good about myself, but made me feel like myself in essence, in a pure form.
All the while, he saw this dependence of mine as weakness and a sign to further treat me with disrespect and often cruelty. As NML writes it is all about keeping the power over you – with these kinds of men/women.
One danger as I’ve noticed with my most recent ‘boyfriend’ – very part-time but fantastic as it helped me see how a normal man acts, even if he is not in love with you, really …. – is the notion that we can handle it.
We appear to accept sht because we feel like we can handle it, it doesn’t affect us, or we have been through worse. This was definitely my case, as I have been through a few really bad experiences in my life before this one, it gives you a kind of false bravado.
I remember even saying something along the lines of this to my ex about something sexual – that I could handle it, but other women couldn’t (as if my acceptance of his rough treatment made me somehow ‘special’ … yuck).
He, of course, would have registered this as she doesn’t care about herself, so I shouldn’t either (if he ever thought along those lines). What I’m trying to say here is the importance of being careful about a) either acting like we are okay, because we have been through worse – and we are tough women, survivors etc b) not sharing too much about our history with these men, or any men. At the start, especially.
Finally, I agree with another poster here: Nat, could you have a think about writing something about navigating relationships as a single parent? I think part of my ‘toughness’ that I thought was resilience etc came from having survived a terrible abandonment by my son’s dad and also that many men see us as part-time options because we need them less, apparently, or make fewer demands on them.
Being alone with a child/children makes us vulnerable to unavailable types not only because we ourselves may be seeking something ‘part-time’ too on some levels and also because of broader expectations about us and our needs. Complicated a tad 😉
Blessings to you NML, you are a great heroine to me.
Lenny
on 06/05/2015 at 10:31 am
Natalie, your wonderful blog and books are like gulps of fresh healing water for me these days as I’m recovering from a fresh break up from a distant relationship including, as it seems, 80% of what you described as unavailable, lacking commitment and full of illusionary expectations. I could talk about it for ages and pages, but as this post is about caring too much about somebody, I had a somebody who didn’t want things to be as serious as I did (and even had the balls to tell it, though in milder terms and messing up the sequence ‘talk-sex’ as the talking took place after we slept together as usual) and I’ll stick to the point.
What if I’ve been raised up with belief that ‘giving is good and makes you feel good’, not giving of manipulatory kind, but truly caring for those who are dear to me? Expressing love with genuine care while not being needy or craving for gratitude/seeking validation as I know my own value and don’t need others to prove it. Meaning, I’ve been doing this in a natural way since I was a child and I do have several great friends who appreciate it and do the same for me. But this didn’t work with the man and I feel stupid and somewhat guilty and lost, because I seem to face a challenge of change:
– should I act the same in the future, being honest and glad when caring about the person (while being careful not to make the same illusion-mistakes all over) and actually still taking the risk of being rejected nonetheless?
– should I be less giving and caring/ wait for certain signals from the man first? What if these signals are just lies/ manipulation?
– should I embrace the idea the same ex of mine told me: “You should care about yourself and do what you want, because otherwise nothing will work”? Where lies the line between this and selfish then? And what if what I want is caring about him?
I confess each time I want to do something silly about this situation, I run to baggagereclaim and read more of clever things I should have read years ago (but better late than never). Thus I’m gradually getting over the horrifying cold feeling that I won’t have this person in my life any more (plus he already moved on). But I’m afraid these care habits of mine may get me into further relationship trouble and that’s what I don’t want at all.
Thank you again, Natalie, and thanks to all people leaving replies to posts and sharing their experience!
Say Something
on 06/05/2015 at 12:22 pm
Good Morning MJ,
In response to your previous post, I am “out” quite often but I’m probably old enough to be your mother (ha) so my “exposure” is not always to a relevant audience.
Glad you’ve been uber focused and not ruminating as much.
Regarding NML’s new post:
“Present the person who has enjoyed the fringe benefits of you caring too much with facts, indifference, and in fact resistance to their bullsh*t (BS), and they have to move away from you or at the very least keep their distance.”
I’m working on indifference. I definitely cared to capacity.
Yesterday I listened to Natalie’s podcasts on the way to work. One was about the person who says one thing, thinks another thing, and behaves in an even different way. She related it to dealing with three different people. I think I am trying to reconnect a disconnected person.
“This makes accepting it, reallllyyyyyy accepting it, hard for her because she then needs to be reminded every 30 seconds that he is, in fact, permanently pathological. Once she is out of ear shot of a therapist or some other external validating system (books, dvds, cds, etc.) will she still accept his pathology?
‘Coming to believe’ pathology is a hard thing. It’s a shock to learn that someone you thought was the most wonderful person in the world is secretly very, very (did I say very?) sick. NOT only do you have to believe that the person is very, very (did I say very?) sick, but that sickness has no cure.”
“Holding the belief system steady is the challenge of overcoming cognitive dissonance.”
I cared deeply for someone who, in the end, claimed he cared about me (words) but his actions proved the exact opposite. Yesterday I was haunted by words that I recalled him writing, following the TLW: “I’m really sad about this.” As if he had no choice. How PA could he be? And then I remembered that he ONCE, after making all his nonsensical declarations, asked me what I wanted. And it was only so he could refute my wants, and PRETEND to care. Caring would have meant that he asked me along the way. Caring would have felt good. Caring would not have brought me to this site.
Mary Jane
on 06/05/2015 at 4:50 pm
Good Morning Say Something,
Thank you for sending this link. I will look at this article. It sounds like you have moments like I do- where it is just hard to believe they pulled this on us. I constantly read about acceptance. Some days I wish this were just a bad nightmare. Speaking of nightmares I had one about him maybe two nights ago. I hate this. I wake up with a feeling of defeat and quickly have to start giving myself a pep talk.
I have to work on changing the course of my thoughts daily. He said he was really sad. He is a liar. This man is a dating site ho. In my opinion he already had someone lined up just like Judas did. Come on he knew what he was doing. What we have to realize is that it doesn’t take away from our worth. Your hair is still flowing and you will always be a glamour gurl.
Both of us have done some major reading. We need to figure out how to let this GO. We both cared deeply for men who are liars. They were so deceptive. You said it best they are SICK. Are you able to sleep better?
Thank you for telling me about the podcasts. I have never listened to Natalie’s podcast. I will have to do that. Say Something I am already dreading the weekend. This is not a good thing. I have some things planned. Do you have any suggestions for me?
MJ
Say Something
on 06/05/2015 at 6:48 pm
Hi MJ,
Quasi-lunch break. The word “sick” was Sandra Brown’s. I am so stuck in looking for proof/ validation that something was “wrong” or “off” with him that I am stuck on continuing to “care” in some warped way whether I have correctly assessed him. Herein lies my problem. He proved that his caring level was sub-zero, and that apparently isn’t enough of a punch in the face for me to internalize that his empty promises, false words, and cold dismissal support that fact and incorporate it as a belief system.
I read the “symptoms” of complicated grief to my therapist and she said that she doesn’t find it helpful to slap more labels on myself. Then I felt like an idiot. But I realize that for whatever reason, I am still stuck and not letting go IN MY MIND. I am choosing continuous pain and suffering.
I am getting rid of a sheet set I bought “for us”. I brought one of the pillow cases to his house so he’d remember me at night when I wasn’t there. I’m getting rid of all of it. Do you have anything else to purge? Maybe buy yourself NEW SHEETS? Rearrange or redecorate your bedroom. I think I should do this for myself. I still don’t sleep better.
And when I have those 10 minutes of complete focus, with NO BGE thoughts, as soon as I realize it, I am struck with a wave of anxiety, because my conflict of letting go is like an internal battle of the senses. I am fighting myself.
Mary Jane
on 06/05/2015 at 8:32 pm
Say Something,
Talk about triggers. I went to a little grocery store at lunch to pick up fruit and other things for my smoothies. The clerk who use to see us in the store (I would buy Brides magazines) ask me when is the big day. It was like nails running down a chalk board. I had to compose myself and tell her it was off. A man was standing behind me listening to every word. She is always friendly and meant no harm but it was like a punch in the stomach. Now, I understand what you mean when people say are you seeing anyone.
Earlier, I pulled up some other articles by Sandra Brown. She is pretty good. I carry a pretty binder with me that has very positive articles in it (it is like my heart first aid kit-lol). Then I can just sit and read.
Great idea about the bedroom makeover. I love an excuse to get a new duvet. Now, I have a weekend project. My bedroom is my haven. When I found out what he did. The DECEPTION. I did my bedroom over. I ordered a new mattress set and tossed out the chair (he use to sit his dusty ass in it) in my master bedroom. LOL. I even got rid of the sofa he planted his ass on in my family room. It was on that sofa that he probably used his phone to see who flirted with him on his dating profile. It was all premeditated. He knew what he was doing to me. I got rid of the dish set he got me. Gone. I wanted his lying spirit out of my house. It may have been drastic but it was my way to cleanse him out of my place. He is demonic and that is how I feel about it. He actually use to spray his cologne on my pillow so that when he was gone I would think of him. You cant tell me this man didn’t love me. I will never understand why his lying ass just couldn’t say I ain’t happy with you I am moving on. No he needed to humiliate me. You know what I think we have going on here. PEOPLE in general are never really fricken happy. They are always looking for something better. Something is always missing. It is this never ending pursuit of happiness and guess what it means somebody is always gonna get replaced.
If you can lie to someone and keep coming to their house knowing you are humping someone at a hotel. He was going out late at night and returning in time to give me my morning call to say he loved me. Oh and still continue to talk about our wedding and our vacation home. That is nothing short of DEMONIC.
People who lie have no idea of the damage they are doing. This is why I can’t allow this grief to destroy my life. I have nothing else to toss out. Are you going to delete all of those photos and texts? Yes toss the pillows. I never went back to his place to get things I left. I figured he would put them in the trash. The deception was too hurtful.
Say Something it is so good that you have a professional to talk about this issue with on a regular basis. Is it helping you? When I do my 90 minute heated yoga class that helps me leave my thoughts on the mat. I almost feel new when I leave. I am going to start doing this in the evening before bed at a local studio.
I guess you can hear my anger in this post. It is doing me no good to rehash. How do you move on after a relationship ends? Don’t continue to rehash the past because it is DONE.
MJ (hoping one day this will all just be my PAST)
Sofia
on 07/05/2015 at 12:31 pm
Mary Jane,
“PEOPLE in general are never really fricken happy. They are always looking for something better. Something is always missing. It is this never ending pursuit of happiness and guess what it means somebody is always gonna get replaced.”
True. Because one can’t get happiness from any external material source or a person. No person can make us happy and complete. Some people never get that so they keep chasing the illusive perfect source of happiness.
Btw, thank you for the life coach suggestion in the other post. I am in counseling and had my second session. I feel like I talked too much but it might be normal during the first couple times. She already said some things, which were so revealing to me! (childhood connection to my now anxiety and shame/guilt feelings). Although I have read a lot on this subject, it’s true that a professional can put it in such a context that you finally get the dots connected together. Also, I am hoping she will help me guide to the path to healing. And of course, like she said and I agree, to be helped YOU want to be helped and ready for it. Had I come to see her a year ago I don’t think I would have been very receptive. I was broken, raw, and defensive. I know the theories, but I don’t know how to practically and constructively improve my life outlook and thinking processes using cognitive techniques (or others that she applies). So quite interesting. I don’t think I can go to many sessions but few more will benefit. She said herself that being an analytical and self-aware person, I already know where I am and what to do, just need some help to propel this.
On the subject of the post: wonderful article. Wish I had the access to this site years ago. I too all my life in every relationship, romantic or otherwise, cared for everyone else and disregarded myself. The counselor calls this codependency. When our needs in our childhood are not met, when our security and vulnerability are shaken (alcoholic, emotionally unavailable home and other relatives who were critical and disapproving of me), we grow up taking care of others to control the events, to stabilize the chaos, to prove ourselves that we are needed and loveable. To validate ourselves because we are so unsure of ourselves and don’t think we are worth anything.
Great posts and self-reflection. This definitely should take all or most of us back into our past and think what happened that made us like this (especially those of us who are extreme doormats and pleasers and self-abusers). That’s what I have been doing for over a year and now have reached the point to not only understand all this but heal and build a new life.
Mary Jane
on 07/05/2015 at 2:12 pm
Hi Sofia,
The life coach that I was suggesting is someone that helps you chart a career path. I just wanted to make sure you knew what I was suggesting. These coaches help executives and people at all levels determine who to get their career on track. I know you are considering a new direction.
How are things going with your exploration of a new career path?
Sofia
on 09/05/2015 at 5:34 pm
Hi Mary Jane, thank you for checking with me on the subject. I am brainstorming different options while applying for different jobs. I need to get out of the current environment first to clear my head, to have new challenges, and feel engaged. I have been half-dead in my current work for over a year. Long time overdue. Lots of thinking and evaluating. Trying to understand whether I need a true career change or a different job in the similar career. Going back to school is not scary for me, but it might not be logistically possible to leave my 10-year old daughter at home in the evenings while I am in school. There are online options, but not for every career path.
About the weekend and how you and Say Something dislike it: I had that feeling during the first months of post breakup. Now I can’t get enough time. So much to read, learn, hobbies, working out, being outside, church, and just other things like movies and just being alone in the quiet and enjoying your own company. You will get there too!! On your own timing! I know and believe in it. Be patient with yourself. You will live fully again and enjoy your time off with yourself!
Mary Jane
on 09/05/2015 at 8:56 pm
Hi Sofia,
I really hope you find a job you LOVE. Stay focused till you get a job that challenges you. Set weekly goals and keep pushing. Thanks for your encouraging words today. They are so needed.
Sofia I am STUCK. My moods now are just up and down. I hope Say Something and I get to the point you are now.
MJ
Sofia
on 10/05/2015 at 2:35 pm
Mary Jane, it seems like you are stuck, but you are growing all the time, even when you have stuck or very low days. I have had low days too throughout my healing. Actually these last couple days were kind of low, but I don’t get panicky thinking I am stuck again or back to square one. No, it’s just all part of it. You are healing even without realizing it. You are going on with your life and taking care of yourself. It’s very normal to feel low. Cry it out and know it will pass and the next day or next week will be much better. You won’t be stuck in it forever. It’s just the waves of emotions and feelings we go through. The main thing is not to judge yourself for feeling low. Just feel it out. Sit in your grief for few hours and wait it out and know another day will come and you will feel better. Read Susan Elliot’s website too. She has training in grief. There are articles on grief on her site. I found them so helpful and soothing. It’s ok to feel sad and depressed at times. You will feel better. This won’t last. And remember once you survive this and learn how to feel ok with your grief and sadness, and you will, life will bring other events that will make us grow. Good and bad. And we will go through the same cycles again, but better equipped and more compassionate towards ourselves. I read somewhere and that we are like trees that need pruning once in a while to bear a better fruit with each year. Like vines aging and being pruned and taken care of. Our berries get better and better with each year. Our own healing and the healing of God make us stronger and happier as we mature and grow. I believe in it.
Mary Jane
on 10/05/2015 at 10:23 pm
Hi Sofia,
You have so much wisdom. I am so sorry you have had to endure so many painful things. I thank you for having the courage to share your challenges here. It lets me see that we all experience disappointments. Thank you for your post to me today. It is so helpful. I will look at Susan’s page and read about grief.
I went to see a comedy today. Just like you said we have ups and downs. I had gotten so use to having someone in my life to do things with. I hate starting over but I have learned reading here that we all go thru it.
There are days Sofia that I believe God has actually left me like turned his back on me. Some days the pain does not let up. But I think it is mainly related to loneliness. I worked on my little plan some today for rebuilding my life. I have a little 3 month plan to keep me focused. As I said we all endure disappointments. We have to regroup and start again.
Sofia sometimes when I read stories on here about all the games ass clowns are playing- I just don’t know if I want to do this again. But I have to move forward with the knowledge I have a trust my gut feeling.
You are right I have to be kind to myself and set with these emotions. I want to stop thinking about why he did it. He was a selfish liar who turned out to be a cheater. I want to just accept it. I doubt if anyone will ever occupy that much time in my life again.
I need to renew my relationship with God, but I don’t feel like he is here. When I hear you talk about God I m inclined to try again. This is my foundation but the pain is just overwhelming. I think I am going to have to really stay outside working out and try some other things. I will get thru this. I appreciate your support.
I hope you had a great day with your daughter. Happy Mother’s Day Sofia.
Here is a big virtual hug. Thanks for being here for me. Thanks for helping Say Something too. She has been so hurt. Let’s stick together. It is so important to have support.
MJ
Sofia
on 11/05/2015 at 12:38 pm
Mary Jane, no place to reply to your post, so I will do it here. I hope you will see it.
God never turns His back on us. It DOES feel like that sometimes, but what is happening is that He is letting us experience our pain and suffering so that we can learn and grow. He is always with us, carrying as all along. If you don’t feel like it now, you will realize it eventually that He has always been by your side. As the time goes by you will look at your past and recognize that even the pain and suffering you went through contributed to your growth and betterment and therefore a happier you and a better life quality. Everything has its meaning.
To Say Something: you say that so many things remind you of him and you associate the things you used to do and the places with him. I just thought all of sudden this morning that it has been 15 months for me but I STILL avoid going to the part of the town where he lives. I still avoid doing the things and going to places we went together. I still get startled when I see the car that he drives and find myself peaking inside it, looking for him.
I realize it is a part of the grief process: still searching for the person you lost (or you think you lost). So see, don’t be so hard on yourself that you are still immersed into the past. I am too in a way even though I feel I am doing pretty well overall, but the good thing the associations and memories have been dulling. It is such a S L O W process. Just couple months ago I took the exit on the highway to his apartment and broke down in tears (had not been in that part of the town or taken the exit for a year). Didn’t realize I would react like that after a year. But then I told myself, it’s ok. Take it slow. I will be healed eventually. Just keep living my life. Raise your daughter, focus on professional changes, exercise, eat healthy, and enjoy your interests and hobbies. Just keep doing those things even if while going through the pain at times. The truth is that I find after 15 months I still get sad and some memories, movies, his language (different from mine), cologne, his country, places, certain food still trigger a profound sadness in me, but overall, as time passes by these incidents become less frequent and more dull. That’s the good news. The reality I see and you see too, Say Something, our healing process is still going. And I am ok with it. As long as I keep growing and moving forward and working consciously toward it and do feel relief more and more recently albeit with some occasional episodes of sadness and crying like I did this weekend in between of my good times too.
Healing is a long and complicated process. We can’t rush it especially if we experienced the most traumatic experience (so far anyway) in our life. The experience that brought on the surface all the previous fears, insecurities, my issues, childhood problems, my previous relationships, etc., everything resurfaced and I am dealing with everything at the same time on top of losing the relationship I thought I could have had with him and the loss of the child that I will grieve for the rest of my life.
Every person we meet has a purpose in our life. And this time we all, Mary Jane, Say Something, and I, are going through life altering changes. And that is why, even though it feels like God left us, no He has not. He is there, right by our side, supporting us. I feel it and you will feel too once you heal more and be able to look back and assess your current state and realize you must have had Divine help to raise from the brokenness. Have a good week and the next weekend will be better! Label it with good description and it might happen (cognitive thinking :).
Say Something
on 12/05/2015 at 3:07 am
Hi Sofia/ MJ,
Just returned from 500 miles of am extended, exhausting weekend. I got to spend time with my one friend who listens to me endlessly (in real life). On my long drive home, I did my usual— crying. But it got worse. Across the highway by a river, I saw about 20 EMS/ rescue vehicles. Then I saw a wrecked motorcycle that looked like his. He lives nowhere near where I was traveling, but it didn’t matter because I just reacted like it WAS him. It was reactive and raw. I thought I was going to hyperventilate and felt like I was having an out of body experience or something. I imagined texting and just writing “please just say you’re not dead” but I DID NOT. And I remembered… When it was ME facing a serious medical diagnosis, he didn’t care. He never, ever, EVER contacted me to find out anything. The contact in the aftermath was ALL ABOUT HIM. And then I got more upset. With myself. How can I care to THIS level about someone who doesn’t remember that I even exist? How can I react like that? I didn’t expect to come upon an accident that would trigger an over the top reaction in me. It was like an illogical, horrible, chain reaction of messed up emotions firing inside my mind. I feel completely depleted. I did not realize my feelings could so wrongly misfire and take over like that.
Say Something
on 07/05/2015 at 2:43 pm
Sofia/MJ,
I meant to addreess what Sofia commented on:
“PEOPLE in general are never really fricken happy. They are always looking for something better. Something is always missing. It is this never ending pursuit of happiness and guess what it means somebody is always gonna get replaced.”
Agreed, this grass is always greener thought process is so EU. And super painful when discovered PA style. After TLW, I asked him on the phone “Are you happier without me around?” BGE response was “I don’t know how to answer that.” Once again, he showed his caring level to be at sub-zero.
Sofia, good to hear about your therapy. I’m finding this site to be more helpful than my therapy sessions. And all the co-pay charges are adding up.
Hoping we all find true happiness.
Sofia
on 09/05/2015 at 5:38 pm
Say Something, I find that I already know so much that the therapist has to say, but I like how she has these insights and conclusions that I couldn’t derive myself although I have had all this theoretical knowledge. I won’t take too many sessions, probably 2-3 more to get tips on the strategy on how to move forward. I am quite self-aware and equipped with the self-knowledge and understanding the root of my problems. I just need some directions on how to change my negative and anxious (shame and guilt ridden still sometimes) ways of thinking to rebuild my life. I have been getting better but few recommendations at this point would be helpful from someone who is a professional and an objective person.
Say Something
on 10/05/2015 at 12:57 am
Hi Sofia,
I’m starting to wonder if spending $100/month on a therapist is helpful. I may cut back to alternate weeks again. I just keep thinking there is something that I’m missing, that I’ll find here, in a book, online, in therapy. Something different that I haven’t tried to all but vanish thoughts of BGE from my mind. Erase the imprint. I’m so happy to hear that you’re making progress. May you enjoy a wonderful day with your daughter!
Sofia
on 10/05/2015 at 2:22 pm
Say Something, I think you are very well on your way to recovery. This blog and all the books you read are even more helpful than the therapy I think. I won’t attend more than couple more sessions. I am already equipped with the knowledge and perhaps the counselor can just suggest some kind of plan from the cognitive therapy perspective to redirect my thinking in a different way. I know what I am supposed to think but I am not sure how to do that consistently and what is the plan for the new pattern of thinking that can help me to become healthier. $100 a week is a lot but pretty typical, unfortunately.
Thank you and enjoy your last day of the weekend too. I admire that you run 5K after not running for a long time. That’s quite a determination. I hear from runners that a lot of it’s a mental preplanning and telling yourself “I can do it.” See – you CAN do it if you put your mind to it. With time you will be happy again! You will run out of gas thinking of BGE eventually. I already picture you in a year from now (approximately, could be much sooner!) saying to yourself or to us on BR, “What? BGE? Who is that? I forgot when I thought of him last time.” It will happen:) But you will recycle the depression stages. I have in the last couple days but didn’t post about it on here because I am used to it and see it as normal. I experienced sadness about him. I felt like I missed him. But how I could miss a person that treated me like that? I know what I have been missing is the unrealized hopes and dreams. I feel this quiet sadness, a little heavy, like a sorrow and grief. But I don’t dwell on it because I know it will pass and it’s normal to have these moments now, a year later or maybe 5 years later. Considering my history with him and what happened, I am ok feeling like this once in a while. It is understandable. As long as I live my life and continue growing. The same WILL HAPPEN TO YOU. Give it some time. Don’t get impatient with yourself. I was getting impatient with myself by the year mark thinking what is wrong with me, why I am still thinking of him. Then there was a sudden change (or seems like sudden, of course it was not, I had been growing towards it), which I think was the acceptance. And now it will keep on improving from here and on.
Say Something
on 11/05/2015 at 12:53 pm
Thank you Sofia,
“With time you will be happy again! You will run out of gas thinking of BGE eventually. I already picture you in a year from now (approximately, could be much sooner!) saying to yourself or to us on BR, “What? BGE? Who is that? I forgot when I thought of him last time.” It will happen:)”
I hope you are right. I hope I can get there. As I drove for hours yesterday listening to the radio, I heard my namesake’s song. I need to give up on him.
Mary Jane
on 12/05/2015 at 10:45 am
Hi Say Something and Sofia,
I could not respond under your latest post. Say Something I have had nightmares about him being in a car accident. I wake up with the urge to check on him. At one point, I had a dream about his mom being sick and again wanted to call.
Each time I woke up from these nightmares it was a tough day. I reminded myself about what he did and I have NEVER called any of these people. His mother knew me for years and always said I would be her daughter in law. Once he cheated I never heard from her. I understand because that is her son. He told her and his family what he wanted them to know. A lie for sure.
I point this out to you to say that you had this trigger because you still care about him. But you have now taken the time to think about how he treated YOU. I am so glad you have said how he treated YOU. Even though you could have had cancer this man NEVER called to check on YOU. You don’t need someone like this in your life.
I am so glad you did not call or text him. I think this is part of the grieving process. I have had this experience. I just told myself that he is someone that I need to leave ALONE. Someone who treats us with disrespect should NEVER be invited back into our lives for any reason. These two men did damage to US.
One way to get over them is not to idealize them. When I have thoughts of him I focus on how he cheated and lied. I no longer focus on the good times. I think- how long was he cheating behind my back? I will not idealize a liar and cheater. He had every opportunity to come clean and never did.
Everyday I have to make sure I am telling myself the real story about him. He is a liar and a cheater. Your energy has to be focused on you. You have to focus on your recovery plan.
We are going to have tough times. It is just this whole grieving process and there are days it is really tough. As Sofia says we are going to get thru this. I only have virtual support. Everyone in real life no longer talked about it after two weeks. That is TOUGH. My family thinks I should be OVER it.
I am glad you are safe and that you had a real friend to talk to in real life (SMILE). HUGS.
MJ
Bellakins
on 12/05/2015 at 4:46 pm
MJ,
I just wanted to say that although you may have no support in ‘real life’ you do have ALL of us who have had experienced this pain to give you support here on BR.
I have not commented on your posts as others know you better and have put it better than I could. But please know that we are here right behind you as you re-build and get stronger.
Very best wishes to you and all BR readers. This site has given me so much to aim for I am very grateful. xxx
Mary Jane
on 12/05/2015 at 9:27 pm
Hello Bellakins,
THANK YOU! I appreciate your support. I was out running today and at one point I became overwhelmed just thinking about being ALONE. I kept going and talked myself thru an hour run. I refused to stop. I appreciate all of the virtual support as I rebuild my life. I needed this note today. I think I am gonna make it (SMILE). Each day I wake up committed to keep pushing.
Your note has touched my heart today. I just gotta keep pushing. The hurt will just be a memory on day. One day I will have a couple of new friends. I just takes time.
I appreciate every ounce of support I get here. It is important to me. Big hug from me.
MJ
Say Something
on 12/05/2015 at 10:30 pm
Thank you MJ,
For making me feel a little less crazy…
I checked the news all day, and it was NOT him (duh) but it WAS a fatality. What a horrible, horrible trigger. Anxiety since yesterday… FOR WHAT? No, he never followed up to find out anything. I didn’t give much info, because it wasn’t for him to know. Only that it was a serious medical concern involving specialists, and if there was ANY possibility we’d work things out, he needed to dig deep and be there. He “expressed concern” and disappeared, because he was “dating again”. I got that TEXT just two weeks after our last ever “I haven’t given up” phone conversation.
So, there’s a guy who didn’t love me. At all. My friend is trying to hammer that in my head. But ok, does having no love equate with I don’t even care enough to pick up the phone? It took me two months to contact him, and I never mentioned it again.
I drove myself out of town for biopsy #2 with a new specialist, whom I’d contacted by email. I had pleaded for (and got!) an appt because she wasn’t taking new patients. I remember sitting in the waiting room looking at how many couples were there and making note that there wasn’t anyone with me who cared what my outcome would be. Nobody to go home and cry to while I had to wait for results. No BGE. He didnt even care. They sent my specimen across the country to a “super specialist”. Yes, I had a few friends and family members who knew, but it’s not the same. And in the end, benign, for anyone reading this new.
Even worse, all this was happening on the tails of the breakup. I’d get weighed and the nurses would tell me I was lucky. (no, I lost 11 lbs because I can’t eat) I felt like the biggest POS and cared more about BGE than my health. Part of me wanted the worst possible news. That is how absolutely awful I felt. I must somehow deserve to get a fatal diagnosis. Then it would be understandable why the relationship couldn’t work. Nobody wants to be with damaged goods; with poison. I felt like poison. I WAS POISON.
I knew and I know this was messed up thinking, but I DIDN’T CARE!! And how lucky was I? I could reference my medical issue as the root of my misery, and not the real reason, which people would not accept as legit. Then I’d just be crazy.
Six weeks prior, I’d never been happier. I think last May/June/July was my rock bottom. I have now burned out all my “real life” support, save for one person, and she’s long distance. I am fortunate that she puts up with my stuck-ness.
So yes, I still “care” about a guy who never loved me. Who never cared. Who painted his image with “nice” words and told me in the end, that I was offensively harsh, critical, and chastising. For wanting answers. For reaching out because I so desperately missed him. For being confused. For being left in the dust. For trusting and believing him. For caring.
Mary Jane
on 13/05/2015 at 2:08 am
Hello Say Something,
I wanted to respond a little earlier. I got home a little later than I normally do. Yep. I was at the salon. Big presentation on Wednesday. So, I must be professional. Workouts are killing my hair but saving my soul. I wonder if these people can see how sad I am.
You need a little first aid kit on hand when you have all this anxiety. I know what it feels like. When you can try to calm yourself down and (1) just meditate (2) go for a walk (3) pour your heart out in a journal (4) read a good book or (5) just sit quietly and give yourself a PEP talk.
Consider listening to How to Stop Worrying and Start Living on You Tube (Dale C). His voice alone is so relaxing. I want you to recover. I want to recover.
I have had a scare just like you did in terms of health. You do recall I told you my Auntie died from breast cancer. So, my heart aches for you having to sit in that room alone while other couples were there. I saw couples tonight at the spa. All hugged up (Yuck-lol). Each time I get good news I skip out of those medical facilities. I just felt Relieved.
You have had some hopes and dreams sucked away from you. You need to LOVE yourself. It is so sad but you have put him first. No you come first. You wanted that LOVE so bad. How are you going to start to accept that those dreams are not going to happen with him? You want a true lover who will be in the waiting room if you ever need support. Mr. Ass would never do that for you. Try to visualize a new life for yourself. This is the same reality that I have to face now.
I am glad you have one real life person to call on. Priceless. Thanks to everyone who is going to give me support here. Because this is the support that I will use to dig out. I put all my eggs in one basket and he ran off to a hotel and started over.
When you have tough days just think that someone else is out here pushing daily to leave behind broken promises. Some days I feel like I am trying to climb Mt. Everest. I play games with myself just to keep moving. Some mornings I pretend like I am moving through Khumbu Icefall (the most dangerous part of Mt. Everest). I do this to motivate myself to take care of just getting dressed or knocking out important things QUICK. We all have things we do to keep moving in the face of adversity.
When you think about him start to paint a different picture. Paint one of some guy with a dark soul who manipulated you to take care of his own selfish wants. I see Judas for who he is a rat. He sat in my house smiling while he was out humping someone else. I don’t need that. Visualize what your new world is going to look like.
You are not harsh or critical for wanting answers from him. He felt guilty that you wanted answers. Sweetie that dirty rat had already moved on. He knew when you were in bed crying. He was cultivating a relationship with someone new and when you tired to make sense of it- You called him on the carpet. He wanted you to go away quietly so that he could continue what he was already doing behind your back. he didn’t want to feel the guilt.
Now, I need for you to consider planning out a weekend with something enjoyable to do. Even if this is a weekend where you get pampered from Friday to Sunday. If you feel you have to be quiet and peaceful this weekend I would understand. Just be GOOD to yourself.
Big Hug,
MJ
Say Something
on 13/05/2015 at 11:55 am
MJ,
I’ve been awake since 3:30 AM and am worn out before the day has really started. I watched a show on the dangers of climbing Mt Everest, and remember there was a woman who insisted that she make it to the top, against the advice of the Sherpas. She made it! She took photos at the summit! And then she died trying to make it back down.
I read NML’s next post and thought of you even tho it’s about *online* because you actually wrote that you thought you’d struck gold. Me too. Keep your heart of gold. You put your eggs in one basket. Me too. We got rotten eggs. Sulphur. Fool’s gold smells like sulphur.
Running late this morning, but wanted to thank you so much for being so thoughtful, as always. I’m wondering if you work in the salon/ spa business!
Chickpea
on 09/05/2015 at 5:44 pm
@sofia
“When our needs in our childhood are not met, when our security and vulnerability are shaken (alcoholic, emotionally unavailable home and other relatives who were critical and disapproving of me), we grow up taking care of others to control the events, to stabilize the chaos, to prove ourselves that we are needed and loveable. To validate ourselves because we are so unsure of ourselves and don’t think we are worth anything”
Wow, this this amazing, your very insightful! I couldn’t help but think, this is me! How do we change this?
Sofia
on 10/05/2015 at 2:08 pm
Chickpea, I think being aware of it is the first step. Then, for me, it was the breakup with the ex. I see now how he was the last person in my vicious cycle of self-destruction. The combination of these realizations, reading BR, turning to Faith, and reading psychology material as well has transformed my life throughout the last 15 months. Interestingly, I feel I change every month. Sometimes even every week! It’s like I am a child going through a growth spurt only in an accelerated version. I have been catching up on the growing up in the last year because I had been stuck in the adult-child life for the past 37 years. This has been a fulfilling journey. I feel I have grieved so many different situations and losses at the same time and recognize every event and person for what they are. So that has been the change for me. It didn’t come overnight. It an accumulation of events that brought me to the point where I am now. A lot of problems are brought on by ourselves if we are honest with ourselves. That has been revelation too. Being responsible for our own behavior and acting accordingly. Not engaging in certain situations and people. FINALLY feeling respect to yourself and liking yourself and taking care of yourself have been new feelings for me. It is the intimacy with myself that I have been building all this time. Without it we will continue repeating the history.
Mary Jane
on 06/05/2015 at 9:39 pm
Say Something,
On second thought I do need to PURGE every memory of JUDAS. This has drastically impacted the quality of my LIFE. I want my LIFE back. I am trying daily.
Say Something
on 07/05/2015 at 11:55 am
Good Morning MJ,
Purging is good. You’re on the healing path. I don’t have much to purge since he didn’t give me anything. As a matter of fact, HE kept MY things. And he never acknowledged having or returning them, like he forgot or something. Idk.
And I’m so sorry about your lunch time q&a session? What do you tell the next person who asks? We can’t control what others say to us, only how we respond, right? I got asked the question YET AGAIN by a friend over the phone. At least she is someone I might actually tell. I said “don’t ask” and followed with “how’s your marriage?”
Keep purging. I think physical activity is a form of purging anxiety. So here’s my big accomplishment. Yesterday after work I did my first “treadmill 5k”. I have a treadmill at home that I haven’t used in a year. Even tho I am fairly athletic, and do things that INCLUDE running, I am not “a runner” partly because I don’t love it, partly because I’m lazy, and partly because it’s not my strength. So anyhow today I decided to startup again. I also realized that in the past I was setting my pace too high, so today, even though my pace was a 12 min mile, I ran the whole thing for the first time without walking. Last year I quit at 2.5 miles, but this time I did 3.2 and then realized I only needed to hit 3.1. So even though it took me 37 min, I did it. In the past I have been frustrated because I couldn’t run under 10/mile. I adjusted my expectations and decided I wanted to finish at a reasonable pace. Goal is to do it in under 30 but I realize I’m just not there yet. I’m taking care of myself in this way. I will never have a six-pack, and a couple years ago that was a goal too that I didn’t reach. But I can IMPROVE.
You already did a bedroom makeover too, wow! You are moving forward and healing. I’m thinking about it. And I’m still just sad.
I’m experiencing uncomfortable, internal conflict. Trying to write it out, work it out, purge it out. Trying to let go of sadness, but somehow feeling that I am supposed to be sad.
Did you already have your wedding dress?
Say Something
on 07/05/2015 at 12:14 pm
Above: today = yesterday. I am not running this morning. Was supposed to go biking with a friend today, but found out he told me a lie via omission of the truth, and it pissed me off. He tried explaining that it wasn’t a lie, and that made it worse. I got angry and said “I’ve been lied to enough in my life. I know what a lie is. You can think whatever you want, but I know what I believe.” it was a pretty big one too. He’s had other flags and “little lies” that have caused me to pull back and not trust. I can’t be around that. Having plans for six months to participate in an activity with your (supposed) wife you are divorcing. Why would you agree to do something with her? Well then he used a secondary (but true) reason as to why he was unavailable for something else he was supposed to be at. I found out where he REALLY was, and them came the “not a lie” story. Anyhow, he claims daily that she won’t relent, yet I see he is encouraging her behavior, and coming to me and others for support. I told him that he has no boundaries and is like an amoeba. We are supposedly friends that are supporting each other, but he is losing ground with me. Trying to tell me what is and isn’t a lie was not a good move after going through a PA discard, which he knows all about.
Mary Jane
on 07/05/2015 at 3:22 pm
Say Something,
I am proud of you for setting a boundary and cutting off the friend who lied. It is funny but I have a male friend (associate) who had a break up when I did. The two of us had planned to go out together just as friends to try to have a social life. We had sat around and talked about places to go.
I was too busy thinking about how Judas got over on me. I didn’t really want to socialize. He met someone and went on vacation with her. (This shows you how life can pass you by.) He lied to me about it. Someone else told me. I had no interest in this guy just a friend (if I can even call him that). I just think it is interesting how men lie. I figured this guy really had an interest in me. Otherwise why lie. He is always telling me about a movie star that I resemble and how I deserve to have someone really good. Judas is HOT (liar and cheat but HOT). So, there was flat out no interest in this guy. This may be a fault of mine but I have to be physically attracted to a man to even consider them.
When another associate told me that this friend left the country for vacation I was shocked. He told me he was some where else. Just for fun I sent him a text. He lied about where he was. I never really confronted him because after the HELL I have been thru I don’t do messy. I demand PEACE in my life. He is only a friend I would have just ask him why he had to lie, but I let that go.
I now offer him support in his career and we exchange messages just as friends. He also asks me for advice about his new girlfriend. I give him advice and leave it at that. He has a girlfriend and I would never meet him for drinks unless she comes or knows about it. That is just a flat out violation of girl code. He just told me they moved in together. He ask for advice on that before he did.
He tells me daily he envies all my free time. Really? It can be lonely. I am trying to fill my days full of things so that I don’t have time too think. It is not productive.
MJ
Mary Jane
on 07/05/2015 at 2:59 pm
Say Something,
I happy for you! Keep pushing and doing your workouts. Workouts are like a medicine for me. They really help regulate my mood. Just being out in nature daily is a big help.
Today, I thought about my Aunt. When she found out that she had breast cancer she flew everywhere that she could go to consult with doctors. She wanted to live. Every day she woke up it was about trying to find help to extend her life. She was fighting daily. So, today I am telling myself it is so important to leave the past behind. I see my Aunt’s pretty face filled with pain as she struggled to find any means to LIVE. Sadly, she died but fought to LIVE. Sitting here unhappy over a liar who is living some how makes no sense. If my Aunt were here she would be soaking up everything this life has to offer.
Last night I ran around shopping for things to do over two bedrooms in my house. They don’t really need to be done but ok I am giving them a fresh summer makeover. Found some beautiful duvets and pillows. I found paintings too and all sorts of cute things. So, decided to do all bathrooms over too. I had to make three trips to get everything home. Some other things are being delivered on Friday (chairs and lamps). I was WORE out by the time I finished all of that. No time to think about foolishness.
Yes I already had my beautiful dress. I walked back into the wedding boutique that fitted me for the dress and left it with a note for them to donate it. The lady at the counter ran outside to ask me if I was sure. Her mouth dropped wide open. I didn’t want to be Ms. Havisham (Great Expectations) sitting around with fake hopes and dreams. I closed that door tight to end all HOPE. The gown was custom fit just for me. I hate to rehash these old memories they make my upset. I purged everything related to that relationship in days. Everything else related to my wedding was donated or put in the trash. I have no memories of every planning a wedding at my home. I throw out all pictures that were taken. The newspaper announcement of our engagement all in a hefty and gone with the garbage man.
Each day I also forgive myself for not know what was going on behind my back. I hate to give the snake credit but he deserves an award for faking me out. I had no CLUE. It came down on me like a tsunami. Someone was allowing him to sneak around with them at night. Ultimately it was his choice. I remind myself daily that short of hooking a gps up to someone’s ass you can never know what grown adults choose to do.
Everyday I read about letting go of the PAST. I read two great articles today. I am determined to move on. Determined to let the past stay behind me.
We have to keep moving forward daily.
@Sofia- Sofia these articles are really good. If you get a chance look at them.
“When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened for us.” ~ Alexander Graham Bell
Sorry to hear the ordeal of your aunt, but I like that her positive spirit gives you inspiration.
I understand about needing physical attraction. I completely agree with that too, as long as the other good things are in place. Funny, with BGE, I wasn’t totally sure if the physical/ chemistry part was there at first. But it was and now I wish it never was.
I was completely faked out too. COMPLETELY. It wasn’t your fault, yet you still work to forgive yourself. Me too. I was 100%, both feet in, stand-by-you committed. And it means… NOTHING but pain and sadness. I am sorry to bring up bad memories for you, but I wondered if you’d really purged. And yes, wow! That took guts! I have not deleted. Not yet.
I know you’re still carrying the anxiety of running into him. I hate this residual anxiety. I have never been an anxious person… until 11.5 months ago.
I texted my friend who “omitted the truth” and he apologized, citing his multiple issues, codependency, yada yada. I just need to step back. Our friendship will be different. But I don’t need to be around drama that he is creating.
Liked the links you posted. I hope we can all meet for coffee someday and celebrate our progress!
Mary Jane
on 08/05/2015 at 12:44 am
Hi Say Something,
I will take a smile these days anyway I can get it. I loved seeing the end of your message about coffee one day to discuss our progress. We can laugh about how we thought things would never change and how much happier we are.
I think it is good for us to set boundaries after what we experienced. If I deal with someone who tells lies in anyway- you know I will have no tolerance for that. I am on high alert in terms of lies.
Physical attraction is a must for me. But in the future I will make sure the handsome devil I am dealing with has character.
I don’t like dealing with anxiety like this. I am not use to living like this. I was a joyful woman before. People use to tell me that they loved to hear me laugh. Its coming back and I take it anyway I can get it. When I do laugh now I capture the moment in my mind-it is like I am in awe.
The jerk who said time heals all wounds has a valid point (lol). I am starting to accept it all and I kinda believe one day it might be ok. Let’s just say I am use to being alone now. I don’t like it cause Judas got me so use to having company.
I read everyday to keep myself out of dark places. I can honestly say BR and conversations with you (Sofia and others) have helped me tremendously. Reading the posts here is wonderful support. I appreciate everyone who shares here and the support is great.
MJ
Say Something
on 08/05/2015 at 12:19 pm
Good Morning,
Yesterday I received 3 emails thru the online dating site I’m on.
1. 25 year old: “how’s it goin”. Ummm I’m 20 yrs older than you, freak. I am not your MILF.
2. Hot guy but a smoker (deal breaker) and his only msg was “:)” I think his profile might be fake.
3. Not attractive guy and too old for me plus wearing sunglasses in his pic.
“healthy relationships don’t end abruptly, as if they never even happened because normal people can’t detach so quickly from deeper relationships.”
Here’s to caring about ourselves, to overcoming the weekend blues, and getting stronger.
MJ, you have a heart of gold.
Mary Jane
on 08/05/2015 at 1:58 pm
Good Morning Say Something,
Ahhh I wish I had magical powers. I would make this right for us. Sorry about the creepy responses on the dating site. I would turn all of those down too. But you are out there trying. You just need one guy to be the right one. Smoking is a major deal breaker with me. I am not going anywhere near dating sites. This is going to make it tougher to find Mr. Right.
The manager at the salon (I hang out in-major social life) told me she met a great guy online. They have been dating for two years. She told me they had a great date and went to a ballet. I use to do that every year with Judas. I HATE the memories. I am in here crying on a another Friday morning. Damn it. Who lives like this? If I could purge those thoughts from my hard drive they would be gone to. The lady at the salon is trying to convince me to set up a profile. I am not going to do it.
The good thing about me hanging out at the salon is that the two of us are becoming friends and plan to go lunch. I am trying to build my little social network. It takes time to build a new life. Part of me is still refusing some days to really accept this as my new reality.
Healthy relationships don’t end abruptly. So sad I guess they don’t. I was blindsided. I had to kick him to the curb when I found out what he was doing. I had no clue. He must have been laughing his ass off the night he proposed-he knew it would never really go anywhere. I wish I had kicked him in his teeth why he was on one knee lying. He knew he was out sleeping around. This is where all the questions just start coming up for me. Why bother proposing to pull a dirty deceptive act? Why act so engaged in all the wedding planning only to cheat?
Say Something the questions I just wrote are the ones that take me down a deep dark hole. It does no good to think about these questions. My energy needs to be focused on how I can try to enjoy the weekend. That relationship is OVER.
I am going to do a triathlon weekend like you talked about in one of your posts. I have two gym memberships. I will split my time between both (one has an indoor track-the other has a upscale spa environment along with great workout equipment). Great to have to different environments.
My cousin told me she thinks this broken engagement has made me stronger. Really?She said God knew he was a slickster and it was God who told me to get up that night and go to his house. She said God wanted me to see that it was all FAKE. The man gave me a ring and was still out cheating. She said I would have set-up a little fake family. Now that would be far worse than the pain I am in now. I could almost accept this if he never got down on his knee and proposed. If he never dedicated so much time to being with me. I never got crumbs. He had to be out in the wee hours of the morning humping someone else. We were together all the time. IF I ever meet someone how will I know if they are making a 2 am run to go XXXX someone?
If this is how you gain strength I don’t want it. This pain is like torture. I guess you can detect I am not having a great day and the day is just starting. Rehasing is NEVER GOOD. It is a waste of energy.
I have to pull out my notebook and read some positive things. I couldn’t workout this morning. Mentally just too much going on. I will read the article you sent.
I hope you have a great weekend. I need to go back to bed and start my day over.
MJ
Mary Jane
on 08/05/2015 at 3:07 pm
Say Something,
I read the article you sent. It is really interesting. It made me think about a crime show I watched. A lady was married to a serial killer. This man actually treated her decent but at night he was out raping and murdering women. She had no idea. People can have a dark side.
And this is why we are stuck:
Our heart still yearns for what we have been persuaded, during the luring phase, was our one true love. Our minds are still filled with memories of the so-called good times with the psychopath.
Instead of thinking of the good times I need to focus on how this psychopath was out running the streets late at night. Dirty rat.
I liked this point in the article too:
healthy individuals may have good and bad parts of their personalities, but they don’t have a Jekyll and Hyde personality; a mask of sanity that hides an essentially malicious and destructive self. In a healthy relationship, there’s a certain transparency: basically, what you see is what you get. People are what they seem to be, flaws and all.
He hide behind a dark mask and when it all came out I realized I was dealing with a
Jekyll and Hyde personality. He is not healthy.
I hope I am delivered from this PAIN. Each day I strive for acceptance. I just need one day of PEACE. I wish you could have seen the life I use to live. Golden before him. I am trying to get that inner peace back.
I know you said you don’t like relating things to celebrities. This story really struck me. This lady was betrayed in the worse kind of way. Now she is living a beautiful life. She is focused on her business and looks fabulous. The best revenge is living well. This is how I take care of myself. I am capable of doing this if I just let go.
Look at her story. I think she is an inspiration. Now this is how you pull it together when life’s challenges bring you down. She cried for two years and look at her now.
I saw a great class I wanted to attend. It is near Judas’ house. I just cant go there.
Do you still feel the same way about not traveling near his house? I thought you had mentioned that. I just cant do it.
MJ
Say Something
on 08/05/2015 at 5:51 pm
Hi MJ,
I am not a very religious person, but beyond that, I don’t like to think that bad things happen as an act of God. I think, in our cases, things happened because PEOPLE MADE CHOICES THAT NEGATIVELY IMPACTED OUR LIVES. And now it is up to US to heal and become stronger. I don’t think that a complete betrayal and rejection from someone that I deeply and completely cared for makes me stronger. I think it causes pain like I’ve never experienced, and leaves me with the choice to succumb or overcome. Your cousin, although she is probably well-intended, does not see any accountability or recklessness on behalf of your former “J” and I don’t agree. It’s much easier to go through life by explaining things away. I can’t and won’t do that.
Who knows what he was thinking when he proposed, MJ? He loved you in his way, but SOMETHING ISN’T RIGHT ABOUT HIM. Even though you are super loving with a heart of gold, something about him isn’t right. Not right enough for you, because if he was right for you, he’d BE WITH YOU. The ring, what did you do with the ring MJ? Please don’t cry. My wedding ring is in a wedding ring coffin.
Here’s an online story to keep you away! Last summer/fall I was chatting with an online guy. We exchanged numbers and then started texting. We agreed to let the other know if we met someone else, in that there would be no disappearing. (my idea but no guarantee) Anyhow, never a phone call or date, just casual texting for a couple months maybe. Then he said he met someone. I wished him well and thanked him for being upfront. Of course I was also thinking EU (texting only, over 40 and never married) but good looking and athletic. So ffwd to weeks later he texted that he’d like to stay in touch. Fine, I said. Maybe I’ll make a new friend? (FYI that has NEVER been the result) So then his father died and he texted me. I knew he was in hospice. I texted condolences and calming words. But WTF I don’t even know him. He started texting more often, called me beautiful and said he loves when the pic he saved of me (from online) pops up when I text. Whatever. One month later I finally responded by telling him to actually call me if he wanted to talk. HE DID. Then he called back, left a vm that he is going to call more. Ummm ok? So then he started asking about my schedule, coming to a thing of mine…. And as luck would have it, I was meeting family near him the next day. So the next morning I texted and asked if he wanted to meet for lunch… Just friends with no strings attached. We were an hour, maybe a tad more, away from each other, but this would be closer. We meet for lunch. We both have a burger and a beer. The bill was probably $30. He paid. During lunch I said, “so, tell me about your gf.” BTW, I had already Fb stalked them both because I looked him up on there by cell number. I disabled that feature on my account. Beautiful gf, glamorous, great body, singer, younger than me. Anyhow, he told me she was very “girly” but that she was “trying” (to fit into his sporty lifestyle). I have a story of a friend like that who married an outdoorsy athletic guy and they are together over 20 years later. He said they were still figuring out each other’s personalities. It had been 6-8 weeks maybe, can’t be too sure. But I had seen happy pics of them together. So lunch was over and he had a holiday party to attend with her. We walked to the parking lot, I gave him a christmas cookie, we exchanged a brief goodbye/ nice meeting you kiss. Then 5 min later he called. Wanted a longer kiss, blah blah. The next morning he was texting sexual innuendoes.
Him: So you wouldn’t want my company if the occasion presented itself?
Me: I think you’re way ahead of yourself. You have a gf and you just met me. But if what you’re looking for is someone to hook up w on the side, I am not that person.
Him: To commute on any regular basis would break me in no time anyway.
Me: Ok, well good to know that now. I AM glad to have met you though.
Him: Likewise 🙂
And I NEVER HEARD FROM him again. I checked their Fb pages yesterday and all pics of them together are gone, like it never even happened.
I have no interest in this guy, just wanted to share. No way was I going to be his HO on the side. I don’t want to be anyone’s side ho.
I want someone who is ON my side and BY my side.
Say Something
on 08/05/2015 at 9:16 pm
MJ,
I read some. Long article plus I’m at work! I could almost look like her in that blue dress if I blonded up a bit and got a bit taller. And younger.
Anyhow, BGE lives 2 hrs away, but I have had to take detours to avoid being too close. I’ve been 20 minutes away and that bothers me.
I am sad right now as the Fri work day is almost over. Next weekend will be ONE YEAR from TLW and last time I ever saw him. It will be 8 months of NC. And I’m still hurting. Is the guy I saw at the end who he really is or is that just who he was to get rid of me when MOMENTS earlier we were laughing together? “This is what happens sometimes in dating. Killer, condescending, uncaring words.
“Healthy individuals may have good and bad parts of their personalities, but they don’t have a Jekyll and Hyde personality.”
Or was it just to get rid of me?
Mary Jane
on 09/05/2015 at 2:28 am
Say Something,
Happy Friday!! Yuck. I hate Friday. After working all week I should be embracing the weekend. Not. I went to the salon today (third time this week). I came out of the salon today not feeling good. Not even a pretty hair style lifted me today. Thank you for saying I have a heart of gold. I haven’t heard anything this nice in so long. Sad. Thank you. I am crying again. I truly hate weekends.
Story number two you had about online dating is another tough one. I am going to have to be my own dating agent. I do admire you for going online and trying. You have shared some funny stories and you keep trying. I like your investigative skills. I think it is smart to be aware of what is going on with someone who is trying to date you. You don’t want to be blindsided.
You said you look like the lady in the story. You are beautiful. I agree with what you said related to my cousin. I think her intent was just to try to make me feel good. This kind of pain has not strengthened me. It has torn my life to shreds. I started decorating one room today and could do no more. This weekend is tough for me. This is the weekend my Mom passed away. I am a mushy pea. By the way I purged the ring just like I did everything else. ANGER. RAGE. HURT. He disrespected me and it was my way of showing him a level of disrespect. It didn’t matter because the two of us didn’t ever have any real discussion again. Engaged and no explanation. It is not right. As you said something is wrong with him. Anyone who can detach like that and drive hours away to sleep around (while engaged) is a psychopath.
Once I caught him. He knew the trust was GONE. I think he figured I am busted. He attempted to tell me a lie via text about where he was. IT WAS OVER. Once I caught him that night I sent him a text that said he was a POS and I never wanted to c him again. I think your guy may have changed on you so quickly because he already had plans in mind about who he would start dating.
I want to share an article that I think is mind blowing. Please read this when you can just be quiet and really absorb this. This is about how to let go of the past. Consider asking your therapist about this technique discussed in the article. It is called the Rewind Technique.
The article reads as follows: If you have been traumatized and feel as if the past trauma is still very present for you, try to get help from someone skilled in the use of the Rewind Technique or a similar comfortable and fast-acting method that focuses on changing feelings rather than trying to work just on the thinking (cognitive) level.
Thanks for being so supportive. I am going to watch movies. Let’s try to enjoy the weekend. I know it is tough for you with TLW around the corner.
Please let me know what you think about the uncommon help article. I know I gave you lots to read. If this is the only one you read please read this one.
MJ
Mary Jane
on 10/05/2015 at 3:43 am
Hi Say Something,
Thank you for the reminder about my triathlon. Today, was awful. Cramps and depression = slow moving. Sunday will be gym and day at the park. I m doing a massage and getting my mani/pedi in white.
Why did you stop watching tv? You must read a lot. So, you said he just changed and said he didn’t like sitting or going to restaurants? I read the article you sent. They are like magicians. They can change over night. They obviously never bond. They were raised by a pack of wolves. How will we ever know who to trust?
Congrats on hitting the treadmill. Thanks for the reminder about listening to music. Music is also healing. I haven’t been listening to the radio in the car. I stopped because after he pulled this crap -certain songs make me cry. I cant wait to hear why you cut out television. Did he say something to you about watching television? I need the company or I might go insane like someone in isolation (lol).
I am rethinking being social for right now. My attitude sucks. I need to pull myself together before being Ms. Social Butterfly. I don’t need another psycho. I don’t know what it is going to take to turn things around.
I saw a movie Whiplash and it made me think of Judas. The lead actor was pure evil. Manipulative. My take away from that is that if you allow it -the evil deeds of one evil person can destroy you. I refuse to let this wipe me out. This is grief and it is going to pass.
I am going to follow a couple of Sofia’s suggestions in another post and get a good night of rest. Have a beautiful Sunday.
This will not last forever. Hugs.
MJ
Say Something
on 09/05/2015 at 2:50 pm
MJ,
Sounds like Mothers Day wknd will be rough for you. I am so sorry. Although I have my mom, she is completely EU, and I cannot talk to her about anything at all involving emotions. She and I are total opposites like that. I hope you have good memories. Fathers Day is like that for me.
I read the Rewind article and yes, I need to change my feelings. I’ll check out the other articles, and go back to that after I mow my lawn. I think I’m going to mow my lawn this morning. Sigh.
So I’m reading NML’s No Contact book and I think I’m in the depression stage. Maybe you too? I need to not care about BGE AT ALL. ANYMORE. EVER. This part of the book hit me, because I SO WANTED HIM TO CARE:
“Even tho NC allows you to regain your power and rebuild your life, you may feel depressed that you didn’t have enough power to have them come crawling back on their hands and knees in remorse, to make them change their ways, or even feel enough regret to try to break down your NC walls.
You may feel so much pain at the loss of the relationship or still feel like you’re drawn to them even if you’re not acting upon it and it may feel depressing because you really wish you didn’t feel like this.
This feeling can be especially difficult to deal with if on the face of it you recognise how toxic this person was and yet you still feel drawn them.”
I have no plans for today. I am sad. I am bored. I logged into the online dating site. Three new guys have contacted me. By contact, I mean they clicked a button. No effort. “click” and I get notified that they liked my photo or something. Just frickin lazy “click” is all. And while I was logged in, the porsche douche (oh, WITH a PhD in psychology) that I met last year AGAIN tried to IM me. Again, I ignored him. I still have his cell # if you want a trip to Florida, the Carolinas, all the places he says he owns property and wanted to take me. Lol. He constantly changes his location to three different places. When he first contacted me, it was FL and I’m in the northeast, but he has kingdoms all over the coast. Douche.
I wish I could see your decorating style. I am going to make a clean and purge effort again later today.
Positive thoughts, hugs, peace
Mary Jane
on 09/05/2015 at 8:39 pm
Hi Say Something,
Very tough weekend. I am normally up working out early everyday. Not today. Very quite day. I had to pull myself together to let the guys deliver things to me today. I went out to grab food (curb side pick up). I am being lazy. As I read your note I am in agreement with you. I believe this is depression that I am experiencing. For sure.
I had to laugh about the guy you called a douche. Did you actually go out on a date with him? I think some of these men just lurk around on these dating sites to play games. I LOVE the idea to travel. IF I ever have a new beau I hope he loves to travel.
Someone tried to set me up on a blind date. He cancelled the first date. Big turn off. Then I got to see his photo. He called for a second date. I declined. No need to waste my time or his. The associate who wanted me to meet him said looks don’t matter he could be a travel buddy. No he can’t. LOL. I want to be attracted to the person I date.
If you could see how slow I am moving today I think you would definitely conclude I am depressed. I have been slowly decorating one little thing at a time and doing laundry. When I came up and read about you thinking about mowing the lawn it has given me a push to just keep doing the things I need to do. When my place is in order I feel so much better.
Maybe I need to stop watching depressing crime solving shows. They are a distraction. I like what you said about not thinking about your X anymore. Yes it would be great if you could forget him. Today, I wondered what Judas is doing with his life. I don’t think he is running around at the HO-tel anymore. No need to hide now that he no longer has a fiancé. Maybe he is engaged to her.
How do I shake this mood? I guess I just have to ride this out. I am bored and lonely too.
I really think you deserve better. I can tell from your posts here that you are a thoughtful and very caring person. When you are in love with someone you go all in just like me. When we do this it is so painful when things don’t work out.
Here is a big hug from me. If you were here we would go to dinner and a movie. Then we could go to a coffee shop and sit and talk for hours. Talking is therapeutic. Happy Mother’s Day pretty lady. Someone should be taking you to dinner.
Take a bow for all of your hard work raising your children when your x husband was MIA. You survived that. I know this is TOUGH but you gotta survive this too.
Talk to you soon. Your virtual support means so much to me. THANK YOU.
Hugs, MJ
Say Something
on 10/05/2015 at 12:45 am
Mary Jane,
Are you going to have a triathlon wknd? I mowed (half) the lawn and then ran another treadmill 5k. Better time: 36:32. My calf was starting to cramp, probably dehydration, but it didn’t go full spasm. Not sure if I’ll ever get under 30:00. In my mind, that’s the measure of “outdoor running worthy” and I am far from that. I’ll say tho, that I never thought I could get to where I am. While running I had my “badass” pandora station blasting in my headphones: linkin park, korn, disturbed…
Anyhow, sad day. I HATE that I wonder what he’s doing. I HATE thinking that it should be with me. I HATE that I care ONE LITTLE BIT. And yet I persist. But NC NC NC all the way.
Yes, I went out once with Porsche douche. Mistake based on how forward he was with me online and on the phone that was last summer. We met in public and then he was upset because I wouldn’t ride with him. I told him I was taking Xanax (I did for a few weeks then) thinking it would repel him. Anyhow, it was all about his braggy lavish lifestyle. Not a turn on. Just douchey. Plus no attraction on my part. Gotta have that.
I did laundry also and once again am ready to crash before dark. I love crime shows too: criminal minds, CSI, law and order, 48 hours. I could watch marathons. I have barely watched tv in the last year, partially due to feeling so awful and partly because of his aftermath email where he seems to point out how different we are: How quickly (in 3 months) he transformed. No drinking, sitting, tv, or restaurants! Then I read how psychopaths change their personas…
“the psychopathic relationship is not real. The persona of the psychopath is manufactured. As far as the psychopath is concerned, there is no such relationship. He has simply manufactured it to manipulate you. He has told whatever lies necessary to convince you of one thing, while he is organizing something else.”
Yes, I will go “all out” for the right person. I’m basically all or nothing. If a guy is ehhh, I’m not going to date him at all. So that’s another reason why it was such a huge crash and burn.
I’ll spend mothers day traveling with my son for sports. And wishing things were different. For all of us. Someday we ARE going to talk over coffee. Until then, keep doing what makes you feel good. You said you were checking out some social options. Only stick with the ones you like. Save your caring for people who deserve it!
Say Something
on 10/05/2015 at 1:02 pm
Hi MJ,
Not sure where to reply, so hope you see this one. The tv thing… Well last August I mailed him a letter. I expressed how I missed him, and wrote specifically about some activities we shared. His response, in which he also told me he was a big fan of me (WTF), how his life with me was “great” but how I didn’t know the REAL him; he doesn’t even drink; doesn’t go to restaurants; doesn’t watch tv; doesn’t even sit down. We had two series shows we watched together. There wasn’t much else to do during brutal winters at night in the middle of nowhere. Middle.Of.Nowhere. I didn’t even care because I enjoyed just spending time with him. But “that’s not him.” keep in mind, most of what we did together happened AT HIS HOUSE, on his planning. He never really planned anything. Never took me to a movie. No concerts. No parties. I’m the one who got concert tickets (he was gone by then) and I’m the one who took him to a Ted talk, to a craft beer place. He SEEMED to really enjoy my choices. I’m the one who made the assembled “beer can cake” for his bday, wrapped in ribbon with the beer he told me he liked. I saw several large bags of empty cans at his house. He never asked when my bday was. I’m the one who gave him books to read when he talked about wanting to do that. He still has them all.
Bottom line, his responses hurt me so much and made me feel like I’d done something wrong. I know in reality, I didn’t do or want anything abnormal. I’m not some huge drinking, tv watching, restaurant patronizing slouch. It was like he was trying to define me and “prove” that we were incompatible. Made up shit. But on some level it got to me. I’m the one in local athletic leagues. He’d been to my games, and always, always asked about them. But I just sit around and watch tv in his mind? He said it “felt like our lives were headed in different directions” but that made no sense either. We never discussed having different future plans. I thought we were working on “together”.
Maybe part of me felt like I had to prove to myself that he is wrong in what he is implying about me. I can have triathlon days and do more than he’ll ever do. Idk. I know it was hurtful reading his words. Claiming that he still cared, that he thought about getting in contact, and that he did miss me. But oh, it wouldn’t be fair to the girl he’s seeing now. And if he could see me, he’d give me a hug. He’d be sad if he never got to see me again. I should contact him when I’m out of this mindset. He’s a liar. If Judas said, “sorry MJ, umm I’d like to see you so I can give you a hug. I’m a big fan of MJ, and I hope you do well in life. I hope you contact me once you’re done being crazy (implied) and I DO miss you.” I bet you’d react like I am (still).
I need to take a shower, stop crying, and pack my bags. Enjoy your day of beautification!
Mary Jane
on 10/05/2015 at 4:24 pm
Hi Say Something,
If Judas said those things to me I would point that MOFO to the nearest bridge and tell him to jump. The things he said to you make no sense. He knew you loved him and he was already seeing someone else. He is cruel. He just kept playing with your emotions down to the end.
From all the things I have been reading and what I hear from you about this ass I think he suffers from NPD. He did this whole thing of luring you in and then he started devaluing. Finally, when you were really hooked he discarded you (that night in the bed when you were crying). A real human doesn’t do someone like that.
He does not warrant anymore of your tears. But real humans have to grieve these kind of loses. Drive safely today.
I was up at the crack of dawn did two hours of cardio in the gym. At day break I hit the trails and did a 10 mile walk (took me 2.5 hours). So, I did over four hours of cardio. Let’s just call this cardio Sunday. Cause if I have one negative thought today I am going to do more cardio. I m o my way to spa, movies and then I am going to sit and read the newspaper. Today, it is full of high fashion, book reviews and exotic travel escapes.
I am going to take Sofia’s advice and end the day with a message from Joel Osteen. I need something really positive. The cardio today has not allowed me to think of anything too bad.
This cardio is like a pill. My mind is clear. In fact crystal clear. I feel pretty good. I may have some blisters from the walk. LOL.
Don’t allow this fool to change everything about you. If you really like to watch television do it. He didn’t have any major activities to do with you. Sounds like he just wanted to sit on the sofa. Don’t allow him to shake your confidence. I can tell with the planning that you cared about him. We gotta let go.
Think happy thoughts and try your best to have a peaceful day. Hugs.
MJ
Say Something
on 11/05/2015 at 3:43 am
Hi MJ,
Great job on the super cardio workout, and clearing your mind. I had hours of driving today, and that always causes my mind to wander and ruminate – yuck. I know exactly what you mean about the radio, and Natalie’s podcasts are a good replacement.
I can’t watch the two shows we watched. Never again and I miss that too. I looked forward to that. We watched them together exclusively. When I mentioned missing that, he claimed to not even watch tv. He would say “don’t watch it without me”… Yeah. I wonder if he has ANY sense of how cruel he was. Either of them. Well, if they acknowledged ANYTHING, that would mean facing responsibility and feelings. So we work through it. We keep working through it.
Thank you for listening to me. And understanding. And caring. There’s some info in the NC book that I need to look at again and mention later when I’m not so tired. We made it through the weekend… Next weekend will be rough.
T
on 06/05/2015 at 3:07 pm
I have a seriously unhealthy issue with this, it is so embarrassing, and here I am bringing it here. I actually do this with someone who I am not even friends with!!! It is someone with whom I work alongside, and we do not get along. Her personality is very strong and over bearing – she tells it like it is – where as I, miss nice guy, sugarcoats most things and avoids confrontation like the plague I only tell it like it is if conditions are exactly right for me…code for I must feel sure that I will still be accepted even if I speak my mind. And – and this is always hard for me to stand up and say – though she has a lot of respect in our business, is good at her job, has lots of friends, not everyone likes her, and she cam be a very mean and nasty person. There! I said it! Why is it so hard for me to admit someone isn’t nice to me? This is a deep thing I think, have to do with facing confrontation, and self esteem, standing up for myself, etc – but I digress. Though the fact that we really don’t like each other was established a long time ago, we have worked along side each other for about 5 years, and we were work colleagues. however as time passed, one day – about 2 years ago – she told me exactly what she thought of me. some things that were bugging her, and though some of the things she said rang true, part it was not, and she was really really nasty about it. And I know this is because I allowed her to walk on me, and I now have a name for some of this behavior as fall back girl behavior, if I am using the jargon right, She could smell my weakness, my feeling of inferiority, and just went for it. Prior to this announcement I cared so much of what she thought of me because I thought it important that we be friends because of the nature of our business, we work alongside each other, and well of course because I want everyone to like me. Since her announcement to me apprx 2 years ago, it has been a personal hell for me. I too have my own strongish personality – I’m a funnygirl and love to laugh at work, I am well liked…but inwardly at work I am like a shrunken violet, if that is the right phrase. I am so insecure when she is around, and I have to work so hard for this not to show. And lets face it, I am sure, more often than not, that it does show. It really sucks. Before I go into work I give myself a pep talk, and when I leave, I have to council myself again. Thank god we work by appt and not 8hr shifts!
I have let this situation affect my life, my livelihood, my performance in my job, my well being…I even no I am not as successful in my business because of this….and it all me, I know!! I am addressing this obviously. I have only one friend in my life who knows about this, and they know very little. Which makes it even more sick. The situation here has also made it very hard for me to make friends, as the nature of our business is very holistic and carries into personal life. This is the place I established myself when I first moved to this area 7 years ago. Normally when we are at work with our clients and other colleagues we all talk with each other as we work, but she and I have no interaction, She established that. On several occasions, my clients have either eluded to or asked straight up what was wrong, and I give a very neutral answer, because beyond that I would be talking behind her back. Meantime her clients also sense this – I am sure she has probably told some of them – and so there is this awkwardness there. It sounds so childish,but words really can’t express how awful it is.
This is going to sound funny, but it is actually getting better. Not the situation, but me. Slowly. I think she thought that I would go away, but I have not. Believe me, I have wanted to – I have looked at this from lots of angles. But I am established there also. I think it might be healthier for me to be someplace else, but this is the most convenient place for my client s to get to, and there are other factors as well. All financial pretty much. So, the fact that I haven’t gone away, has taken it’s toll in the ways I have already mention. But because I am staying – at least right now – I have had to, and continuer to strive for ways to make it better for me. The improvement has very little,but it’s there, It still sucks, I need help with, I know. Writing here is a step. It feels very embarrassing. Anyway, this is turning more into a journal entry than a post, so I am going to stop here. I am going to go back and read all about what others wrote in response to this post – I am sure I will learn something.
T
V.
on 07/05/2015 at 6:29 pm
@T: I have been in a similar situation and unfortunately the bottom line was that that female colleague represented aspects of my mother that I hadn’t seen because I had idealised her. To cut it short, I had a decent relationship with my mother in my young adulthood but through the uncomfortable situation and subsequent fights with said colleague I recovered some memories of my mother basically wanting to get rid of me when I was very little. It’s not that I had exactly forgotten how nasty she was, I had just covered it with the more pleasant and recent memories. So the conflict with the colleague basically unearthed the truth. Good luck, V.
Mike
on 06/05/2015 at 3:35 pm
OMG, yes, yes, yes!
My problem is trying to get friends to think the same way.
Thanks for this.
Mistea1
on 06/05/2015 at 4:42 pm
Lenny and all,
I have struggled with this feeling too in the past. Recently I had it put to the test so to speak. Perhaps this incident was to signify, am I really capable of unconditional love and what does it mean? I concur that first one has to love oneself more than anyone else. During this test I could feel myself waffling between giving myself up to someone else’s manipulations and holding myself steady in my self love. This site was very helpful in providing that external locus of control for me. I’ve spent hours reading and reinforcing and meditating!
Gradually, I could feel that how this person acted to me was not right. It was hurting me. My dilemma then was to react in anger, hurt, pain and meanness right back at him and going against my belief system or to take the bigger picture and not be bothered by his reaction. After all his reaction doesn’t have to require the same from me.
Several stories and teachings helped me. First, my goal is to be love. Wow, how to get there with all these weirdos in the way!
One story concerns a scorpion who offered to take the mouse across the river. The mouse said, “Oh sir, you will sting me and I’ll die.” The scorpion smiled his most friendly smile and said, “Oh, but you want to get across this river and I can take you.” “Well, Ok,” said the mouse. Whereupon the scorpion promptly stung him and he died. One of two people watching said, “That is the nature of the scorpion.”
Hopefully you get my drift in this shortened version.
The second is a song called “The Immortal Song,by Chitrabhanu.
In part it says, May the sacred stream of amity flow forever in my heart..my heart sings at the sight of the virtuous and may my life be an offering at their feet……heart bleeds at the sight of the wretched, cruel…and may tears of compassion flow from my eyes……may I always be there to show the path to the pathless wanderers of life… . . .YET IF THEY SHOULD NOT HARKEN TO ME, MAY I BIDE PATIENTLY. ( I would add and go about my own business.)
To me this means exactly what Nat and all these others say about NC, keep away etc.
We don’t have to give up on being love, we don’t have to react in harshness or against our own gentle nature.
The third story I have is from another of my most respected teachers, Molly the Owl. Some may rememember her as part of the videoed owl family from San Marcos, CA.
One day Molly was out taking a break leaving the 4 owlets alone in the box. When she tried to return, a giant hawk was trying to attack the box with cries of war. She fought to get in and arrived to her very disturbed babies and her own upset feelings. The hawk left in defeat. She stood in the front of the box, feathers shaking violently. The babies were shaking too and tried to peck at her in their distress. I was surprised to notice that she didn’t try to scold them for pecking at her. She stood by patiently until they all quieted down then she gathered them all under her wings once again.
And some say animals are just wild creatures!!
Hopefully this is helpful, it certainly is helping me.
Lenny
on 06/05/2015 at 5:48 pm
Thank you Mistea1, you make a very fine point that others’ treatment or opinions isn’t the reason to force the not so good change in yourself, going from sincere person to game playing bi*ch etc. Healthy self love rules!
Monica
on 06/05/2015 at 6:16 pm
Thank you to all!!! I love this site and you guys for the insight. It keeps me grounded in reality instead of heading off to what if land. I actually only got those truths from him toward the end because he was in the hot (chase) phase and I demanded answers and he is sort of stupid. But I was rationalizing that because he told the truth that some how that meant he was getting emotionally honest. But I know that if the only time someone tells the truth is when they are losing you, it’s not an honest relationship.
It makes me feel so much better that others have been through the exact same thing! also that you all validated my saying no and opting out, I was totally sure of myself until he broke contact and tried to get me back, so thank you for backing up my instincts. Its funny how you can know something to be true and still not want to do it, until your back in it and saying to yourself, oh ya, this sucks, that’s why I should have trusted myself. But I don’t need to do that this time. Thank you!!!!
Robin
on 06/05/2015 at 7:15 pm
It’s like how negotiation works. You have to be prepared to walk away from the deal…
Stephanie
on 06/05/2015 at 7:32 pm
This is so funny because this is the exact thing that happend with the ex-EUM! When I stopped caring and treated him with indifference his whole demeanor changed. He no longer had any power and he realized I could see through his b.s. He would distance himself when I didn’t react the way he expected me too. Then he would keep trying to get a reaction from me that would put him in his comfort zone and I just wasn’t budging. I set my boundries and he could no longer break them. I honestly believed he knew he started to lose his luster with me. He even up the ante by talking about having a relationship after he left me for someone else, disappeared and reappeared acting like everything was okay. I acutally think he thought I like him soooo much that I would overlook his behavior
I feel that when he couldn’t pull the wool over my eyes anymore, I became less appealing to him. In turn he continued talking to the woman he was seeing while checking in to see if I “changed my mind yet”!! It’s funny because even after a year in the half of no contact he still called with the same b.s. and the only thing I could do was wish him well, laugh and hang-up the phone.
Pauline
on 07/05/2015 at 9:56 pm
Stephanie
The ex AC behaved exactly the same as your ex EUM after I dumped him.
He still tries to check in with a text every now and again even though it’s been 3 years since I broke up with him. I check my spam folder occasionally and there he still is. He even sent me a text from a new number this past Xmas. I just laughed and blocked that number too. I can’t understand why he still tries to get a rise out of me. Weird.
Michelle
on 06/05/2015 at 10:52 pm
This post is excellent, particularly the inset about presenting the person who has enjoyed the fringe benefits with facts, indifference, and resistance – they have to move away from you/keep their distance.
One of the beautiful things about this website is: you can recognize yourself/them and this dynamic when you’re deep into it – and you can also recognize the signs early and PULL OUT before you hate each other.
In my case, I took a step back from someone after four months of dating due to signals that he is EU. I went NC to heal (thanks BR!) and I have so much more perspective now. The other day, I was thinking back and I had that “What were you thinking?” kind of moment – teasing myself about all the (now obvious) signs that this really was doomed from the start but I gave it my best effort. Admirable, given how little (it turns out) this guy had to offer me.
Anyway, we recently decided to continue with our friendship. We do run into each other regularly because of a shared local hobby that’s fairly uncommon, a small scene. We’d already parted amicably (thank you BR for showing me the light!) so I felt this was possible.
There are ways to use their EU indecisiveness and laziness to your advantage if you have to interact with them for some reason. Taking the time to heal is what makes it possible – it’s been more than two months and it’s clear he is (sadly) the same as where I left him. He still tried to make me his armchair therapist and so *poof* FB messenger is off for him indefinitely. He’s playing nice with me on email but says he hopes we hang out soon. Instead of jumping on the hint, I ignore it. Public, local, group hobby events will be our “hanging out,” my friend. I now see how much of our connection was dependent on me doing a lot for him… and now that I won’t, his lack of initiative is so obvious.
Personally, it’s satisfying to remember how I would have reacted in the past when we were dating and how comfortable I am *NOT* overgiving anymore. He’s tried his old shit and he gets my ::crickets:: (silence) and that doesn’t bother me at all. When our paths cross, I feel relaxed and calm and happy because I have fully embraced that his lack of understanding about what he wants, who he is, his lack of effort is about him, not me. Boundaries are a wonderful thing. Thanks BR!
Chickpea
on 06/05/2015 at 11:32 pm
“When you’re caring to that level where they have the power to make or break you, this sense of caring about them is a mirror that’s showing you that you’re not caring enough about you.”
I wish it was so easy as to just let someone go when its obvious they don’t care about you. It’s been more than two years since we’ve connected with each other. But whenever I have doubts about anything, I think of him. I know that I continue to be attached because I still seek validation from him. This is so painful, how can someone have so much influence on me, when I don’t even exist to them. How do I take my power back? How do I let go of this?
Michelle
on 07/05/2015 at 2:44 pm
Hi Chickpea… sorry to hear you’re having a hard time. I hate that feeling of, “I need this person to feel xyz about me” or “I need them to do xyz” to feel better. It’s the worst.
One of my friends has this great exercise she suggested to me and I found it helpful in my healing. She said, “Michelle, imagine you’re in a field and it’s full of flowers and the sun is out and it’s a gorgeous day. Step into the field and imagine that you’re meeting yourself five years from now. She greets you, hugs you, smiles… and what does she tell you about this situation?”
I find it powerfully healing to imagine myself five years from now, so beyond this guy and his opinion of me. I offer it in case it helps you too! Hang in there!
Monica
on 08/05/2015 at 7:30 pm
Michelle, this future me is the exact thing I need to think about to help me not go back right now, Thank you!!
Chickpea
on 09/05/2015 at 1:28 pm
Thanks for your support, I will try that!
Jennifer
on 07/05/2015 at 2:06 am
This article really resonated with me. It was unbelievable. I tolerated such terrible, terrible treatment from my ex in order to “win” in the end. He was cheating on me with multiple women and we really were all competing with each other to be the chosen one. I don’t know why I allowed myself to ignore the blatant disrespect of repeated infidelity and instead, was fixated on who he decided to be with. My self esteem was completely wrapped up in his actions. It is just so sad to think back about how much hell I allowed him to put me through, all the humiliation I suffered and how incredibly unhappy my life was. I remember reading posts from Natalie back then and how they helped me. I can’t go back and erase all of the misery. But I can make much smarter choices in the future and because of that, I feel like there is still hope.
Mary Jane
on 07/05/2015 at 3:28 pm
Jennifer,
Forgive yourself. Love yourself. There is now HOPE for a better future. I am sure it is tough emotionally but be glad that it is over and you see it for what it is.
MJ
dee
on 07/05/2015 at 6:18 pm
Jennifer, you sound so good now. How long ago was this? How did you begin to move on from him?
So True aka DUMP HIM
on 10/05/2015 at 11:21 pm
Jennifer, he was “triangulating” you. You felt miserable and he was in heaven. A lot of men do this and it’s disgusting.
Lisa
on 07/05/2015 at 3:08 am
when I started to call him out on all the BS he was feeding me, he dumped me. 2 months has gone by, and with basically zero contact, I see I /we were the poster people for all NML talks about. I’ve seen him around doing nothing but trying to act like a twenty year old when he is forty. I saw it all but just didn’t know I had the power, the value, the worth to change it. I am still learning, but gratefully, I wont EVER have to live like that again.
Why
on 07/05/2015 at 11:40 am
Lisa, may I disagree with you on this one? 🙂 You say you did not know you have the power, the value and the worth to change it. BUT YOU DID. You did change the situation. Yes, he bailed out when YOU called on his BS. But it was your call. And you’ve reclaimed your power. Maybe it took you longer than you’d have liked, or you feel like you wasted too much time on that person. But, this is a story of your WIN, not your failure. You RECLAIMED the power. Yes, he dumped you but you WON by him doing that. And, again, you opened both your eyes and his (well, he was unlikely to see it but that’s another topic) to the BS.
Don’t tell this to yourself as a story of your failure or the loss of power. Tell it to yourself as a story of victory and reclaiming your power over BS. Because it is.
dee
on 07/05/2015 at 6:19 pm
Hear, hear!
estrella
on 07/05/2015 at 4:51 pm
I so belong in this group. Thanks Natalie for your blog.
Ive been obsessing on a guy for the past month. He is just another one of the many in my pattern of un-available-s. this pattern started so long ago. I remember the crushes I used to develop as a teenager and how I used to feel so high when some cute guy/man/someone gave me attention. and how its continued….
Here is just one quote that resonated with me out of the many…
“It’s not that you need to stop caring about others and you definitely don’t need to give up on trust and any positive qualities but what you do need to learn through being more boundaried, is where to invest your goodness. Roll back when you are not experiencing a mutual relationship. ”
it so painful to realize I am sharing my goodness with someone who doesn’t seem to want it. When this happens, I tend to try and then push myself on them. These days, its by continuing to text or show up at their place of work (its a public café,) expecting/wanting something in return.
the lesson I continue to learn with all this is to be more choosy and discerning at the beginning and to take time before I let someone in.
I like how you said in another post or maybe one of your books, to imagine an electric fence around you. Basically, I need to strengthen my boundaries and take a stand for my worthiness and roll back when im not getting at least a mutual reciprocal connection back my way.
thanks for all of your posts and thanks for everyone’s shares.
its so helpful.
dee
on 07/05/2015 at 6:16 pm
Natalie, I cannot tell you how helpful your site has been. I have been visiting daily for a few weeks. I’m trying to do NC with a very EUM ex-boyfriend. I know better, I’m 40 years old…and yet, I am completely wrecked over this guy even though we only dated for a short while. He was a complete future faker and while I was skeptical at first, I allowed myself to fall for all the B.S. and made constant excuses for him after all of the love and affection he showered me with abruptly STOPPED all at once after only 2 months! I’m ashamed to say that I let him off the hook, made excuses, took his crumbs, for another 4 months after. 🙁 I’ve come to realize that I’m addicted to the drama. Our brain makes neuropathway connections and, regardless of whether they are healthy or not, it becomes a literal addiction and difficult to change these connections to healthier pathways in a physiological sense (!!!). I began NC last week and bawled every day because I wasn’t receiving the attention from him that I’m addicted to. He finally called on Day 5 and I got swept right back up in communicating with him. I’m starting again today. I am healthy, beautiful, strong, smart and deserving. My friends are absolutely at their wits’ ends with me because really, I should know better. Am I that afraid of being alone??? I guess I am. Perhaps some of you wonderful people can tell me how to begin to build boundaries and values? I grew up in an alcoholic home, am very co-dependent and have a past of being EU myself. The minute someone treats me the way I should be treated, I’m bored (again, addicted to the drama). Reading these posts and all of the comments is saving me. I have tears in my eyes as I say that because it’s true. Blessings to all of you!!!!
Why
on 07/05/2015 at 8:43 pm
dee, if I may, get “Getting Past Your Break Up” by Susan Elliot. It’s a very no BS book that was recommended here. She describes her situation that has changed her life when her husband left her with 3 kids and no job in sight. But the book is not about her. It’s a solid plan on what to look for within your self, about boundaries and what to look forward in the future.
During all the time reading it (I am on the last pages now), I realized it’s exactly the kind of thing I missed growing up with my EU mother. What is ok and what is not? What do you tolerate in a relationship and what not? I feel like a child because of this.
I saw that someone said here recently that Nat and BR changed their life and I had tears in my eyes (and I am not a cryer at all) when I realized that it is 100% true for my life too. The support, the tough love, recommendations and wisdom here is unbelievable.
What you say about addiction is very true. My therapist told me the very same thing about my struggle. The book actually explains it with “nature abhors vacuum”. When the EUM relationshit dissipates you have to fill it in with some quality activities and self-love. Which many of us have no idea how to give or what they look like (including myself here).
dee
on 07/05/2015 at 9:34 pm
Thank you Why.
I see everywhere ‘trust your instincts!’ and ‘trust your intuition!’ but I feel like growing up the way I did, I didn’t ever learn HOW to trust my own feelings, so it’s very hard to know where to start. I will get the book! xo
Judy Nonarchi
on 09/05/2015 at 3:55 am
Susan Elliott’s book turned my life around 180 degrees. I threw out all toxic people from my life.
Veracity
on 09/05/2015 at 2:38 pm
Why, This really resonated with me “I realized it’s exactly the kind of thing I missed growing up with my EU mother. What is ok and what is not? What do you tolerate in a relationship and what not? I feel like a child because of this.” As I am becoming more aware (awake), I am realizing how child like I am in some ways. I just ordered this book as well and appreciate the recommendation.
Stephanie
on 07/05/2015 at 9:10 pm
Dee,
First take a deep breath! You will be fine, we all have been there and know what you are feeling. Believe it or not you have started your healing process by looking at yourself and not just making this about him. I learned that many times we hold on to these toxic relationships because of our own issues. The EUM only trigger those issues. Acknowledging that you have issues is a major step because you start your soul searching process.
The next step is continue with your no contact because the EUM is only going to cause you further pain. If necessary, seek some therapy to deal with these issues if you don’t think you can do it on you own. Things will get better, I promise you!!
dee
on 07/05/2015 at 9:38 pm
Thank you Stephanie. Like NML has said in other posts, the problem ends up being us looking for these EUMs and ACs to validate us. This is simply the ego at its finest, i.e. ‘How dare HE not want ME?’ I’ve been through far more serious and fulfilling and complex and deep relationships and break-ups, and am SO DISAPPOINTED in myself for letting this guy get under my skin. I truly feel like I’m losing my mind sometimes.
I know things will get better! And I know there are good men out there. I know I should not just settle and try to mold a really attractive, seemingly cool/fun person into the man I *want* him to be. He’s just not! It all feels so shallow and ridiculous, but then again I know shaming myself isn’t going to help. I so appreciate you taking the time to reach out. xo
Diane
on 08/05/2015 at 3:17 am
@Dee, growing up in an alcoholic home (alcoholics are by nature EUM) you are probably very accustomed to that teeth-pulling feeling of TRYING to get someone to give you the love/attention you deserve. So when you feel that feeling with someone, you associate it with love. I grew up in a similar environment, and I know that “teeth pulling” feeling very well. I have a tendency to go for guys who are somewhat aloof, shy, “mysterious” and inspire me to “pull” them towards me — because of course that is what I grew up doing with my parents. It feels comfortable, familiar, and like “love.” My struggle has been to feel comfortable around men who don’t give me that feeling because they are already “there.” It’s something I’m still working on.
Why
on 08/05/2015 at 11:23 am
Diane, thank you for writing this. My biological father was an alcoholic too. And although I understood that he was not present..well..ever, I did not connect this with “teeth pulling”. I just wanted him to disappear. But what you say is very interesting. And something I can definitely relate to. My mother is deeply EU. But your comment made me realize that both my parents instilled this association “anxiety and having to prove you are worthy of love and perform -> love”. This is also something I am trying to catch myself doing (stop performing and think “hey, but do I actually like HIM?” and also AVOID all men who breed competition (you compete with their job, their schedule, their exes, the women they brainwash into “possible” girlfriend/wife material, their family etc) and AVOID all uncertainty and anxiety inducing relationships (not the normal nervousness but the real anxiety. when they don’t call or disappear and all that classic AC vocabulary).
dee
on 08/05/2015 at 1:08 pm
Why, this rings so true. I don’t want to blame my parents but especially with my dad it’s all about proving worth. 🙁 He grew up in an abusive/alcoholic household too, cripes are we all doomed? LOL…
When I try NC with ex-EUM, he sulks and pulls this ‘poor me’ routine, sending a text saying “I’m sorry if I’m bothering you…” I tell him not to contact me until he can be straight and honest about what he wants from me, so I’M the bad guy. Then I want to cave and text him a little heart or a little kiss. Blech. I’m fed up with myself!
dee
on 08/05/2015 at 1:09 pm
(I meant ex-EUM when I said ‘he grew up in an abusive/alcoholic household too,’ although…my dad did too!)
dee
on 08/05/2015 at 1:02 pm
Exactly Diane. How can I ‘know’ what I never learned??? (lightbulb moment) It’s really hard. And yep, I gravitate toward EU men because it feels comfortable! So hard to put the brakes on your initial feeling to ask, ‘Do I even like him?’ Again…learning to trust my intuition…how????
To be honest, I DIDN’T like ex-EUM when I first met him! I really didn’t! Why didn’t I trust my gut? I remember thinking, ‘He’s weird, I dunno, something seems off…’ but he pulled me in with his attention and put me on a pedestal….and I LOVED it! Now I”M the one putting HIM on one. Blech. 🙁
Diane
on 08/05/2015 at 3:07 pm
@Dee, you are here, so you already have taken the first step towards healthier habits. And they do become habits, just like being with an EUM is a habit you learned from when you were little. Your brain has been wired one way, and now you have to rewire it. The first step is to keep reading Nat’s blogs. Any time you have a question, put a key word in the search engine, she will have a post on it. Read and re-read, and when you are weak, read again. I also recommend reading “Men Who Can’t Love,” “Bad Boyfriends: Using Attachment Theory to Avoid Mr or Ms Wrong,” and “He’s Scared, She’s Scared.”
You may go through a period where you are hyperalert and put major walls up and won’t let anyone through — but eventually those start weakening a bit, and then you are left with strong boundaries, but with an open heart/mind (but not TOO open!). This is when you might meet the right person, as many on this board have (I have not yet), however, even if you don’t, believe me, you will be a much happier person!!
Monica
on 08/05/2015 at 7:16 pm
Dee, my story is the exact same as yours, in my 40’s and EUM is a good looking guy who seems sweet and shy and I feel totally superficial for still wanting him. I have more depth than that, but somehow his desire for me pulls me in due to such validation. And this time he came in and said he wants to marry me, wow that is a mind f@#$, because I’m questioning, well maybe he is for real, maybe he will actually act like it this time. And he DOES act like it, when he wants to (mostly for sex) but then when he is busy or is on I have her, so I don’t need to chase mode, he can be so rejecting. It’s not shallow to want to believe what someone is saying. Nearly anyone would be tempted by someone who acts like they love you. The hard part is remembering all the little lies that they told because that is what you wanted to hear, so that is what they said without meaning it. He did not mean it, is my mantra to keep away, but it’s still hard. Anyway, your not alone.
Oona
on 11/05/2015 at 11:52 pm
Dee take a deep breath and let it out and again – YOU ALREADY KNOW WHAT YOU NEED TO DO BUT YOU ARE CHOOSING NOT TO LISTEN TO YOURSELF and WHEN YOU DON’T LISTEN TO YOURSELF YOU CHOOSE TO USE IT TO BEAT YOURSELF UP.
The Lose lose situation is what keeps the addiction going and you have to break it for a new addiction – to only do things that will make you genuinely feel good. Try it for a day, then build it up.
When you listen and act on it – it will all come good – allow yourself like a toddler learning to walk to make a few trips here and there – without beating yourself up – you are a good person – nobody is perfect – you deserve a better life than this – you are at the start of the best adventure of your life – to find and fall in love with yourself.
I wish you lots of love and happiness – good luck.
AngelFace
on 08/05/2015 at 2:21 am
8 2 as in this type relationship with my X narcissist, sadist, harem master, lier, cheater. KARMA!! Yesterday he was arrested for assaulting his daughter’s boyfriend and went to jail and next is criminal trial. He broke into the guys house and attacked him with a cattle prod and threatened to cut the d off. This story is now going Nationwide and on tv. Google: cattle prod, Bellingham WA. Lol….
Okay girl. To be honest, I don’t care if you publish this comment or not. I just want you to know that (aside from the MYRIAD of other reasons that I LOVE this blog and this post in particular)as a fellow writer, I love that you put “BS” in quotes after “bullshit.” You are just the queen of everything in my mind, girlfriend, and I just love you to bits and pieces.
Love,
Revs
Revolution
on 08/05/2015 at 3:16 am
Ugh. I’m drinking. I meant, not quotes, but parens.
Jackie
on 08/05/2015 at 7:10 am
This post has come at just the right time for me. I’ve been friends with this guy for over 10 years, neighbours and our children were good friends too. Then his marriage was failing, I was there for him as a friend and one day he confided how he felt towards me, that he was in love with me and had been for several years. I was surprised but felt the same, we got on so well, have similar likes, views and all seemed good. Now, after eighteen months of his very messy divorce, him having to leave the marital home and still being controlled by his ex, I waited for him to do the things he said we would. Hahaha let down or what!! I lost my mum in December after a very short illness and he was very supportive, but then he wasn’t I was gutted and so I stepped away. He contacted me again and asked for another chance, “I’ll always be there for you if you need me” he said, but nothing came of it, so I did the no contact again. Then just last week he contacted me, why did I allow myself to be sucked back in? I contacted him a few days later to talk as I was struggling with the loss of my mum……no answer. I text him to say how hurt I was that he hadn’t replied and we got into a text argument and he said that he couldn’t be there for me as he has too much on (his mum has been placed into a home as she has dementia) and he’s “not a one-man army”.
I’ve been left feeling a complete fool for allowing this man to get under my skin, for allowing myself to care so much for him that I didn’t see that he didn’t care that much for me. I know texting is a crap way of communicating but it was the only way to that day.
Right now I feel like I’m grieving for both my mum and him…..aaaarrrrrgggghhhhh!!!
Suki
on 09/05/2015 at 8:46 pm
Jackie, him = anxiety, mum = grief.
Your anxiety is helping to distract you from your grief. This grief has a time stamp, that first year after a loss is important, its important to not make big decisions that first year because we are very very vulnerable and lost. It helps to be open to processing the grief, and not distract yourself. I think I also took up with an EU after my parent died. Its messy stuff. When you need someone to share, get online, call a friend, call your siblings, your mum’s friends, other friends that have lost a parent and can help you. Dont contact him. Because by contacting such an emotionally empty man, you are willingly making a choice to be unfulfilled about your grief.
Anyway, if you need to grieve him, do. To help, I will say, man is an idiot. Childish, immature, unable to deal with whatever he’s going through. Maybe he’s a great guy, reeling into EU passive aggression through grief – then he’s doing it on your time and you deserve better. Or he’s just an idiot, always was. He’s desperate at the loss of his marriage and quickly proclaimed love. You are grieving an idiot.
I share your sadness about your mum. It is a universal grief, to lose a parent. It is something essential to us as humans, I felt very connected to something much deeper, truer, in the face of death because this is one of our core emotional lessons and challenges in life. To face that.
Diane
on 08/05/2015 at 3:14 pm
I just wanted to warn everyone that Mercury in Retrograde is happening or something, and that your ex might contact you. I don’t believe in this stuff, but oddly, every time there has been a MIR, my ex-EUM contacts me, and he did again last night. I hadn’t spoken to him since January, except for a few short emails dealing with a package of mine that had been sent to his place by mistake. When he contacted me last night out of the blue (saying he had found an old email of mine and how “funny” I was) I told my friend, who told me it was all down to astrological shenaningans — beware of the stars! 🙂
Why
on 09/05/2015 at 12:12 am
“If only I wasn’t being myself, I might win over someone that treats me like shit”
This is an old comment from Nat on the “One shot” post. This is EXACTLY how I used to think (and still fall down that hole sometimes) with people care too little for me. And seems like many of us can relate to this pattern of thinking.
If only I stopped needing him to respond to my questions about what exactly his promise meant, if only I stopped having expectations and jumped right on his “I just wanna be positive and inspired” train of depth and planning, if only I stopped being bothered by him drip feeding me information, if only I stopped caring he’s having unprotected sex with his gf and then asks the same of me, if only I could try need less. *head explodes*. God, this website is so so amazing and keeps me so sane. I can’t believe I was seriously trying to twist myself into that much of a pretzel. And guess what, it did not work either! They treat you like shit now, and if you get to “win” them (whatever that is), you’re only gonna get more of the same shit.
Thanks but no thanks.
kee
on 09/05/2015 at 9:05 am
Hi everyone!
This site has been a real ‘godsend’ for me, I wish I had discovered it 15 months ago when my divorce was finalised (well on paper)……. Because in the past 15 months I have gone from ‘high on life to be free of ex-EUM husband’ to missing him so terribly that I would cry myself to sleep when ‘dating’ this random rebound guy (I know I learnt my lesson and ended it after a couple of months when I realised that I am so not ready), to a full-blown depression (of which I am currently trying to get out of) due to the fact that ex-EUM decided to BEG me back….
I wish I had taken the no-contact rule from start of our divorce, the only thing ‘positive’ I did was move away to a different country to get away from him and his hot/cold and emotional rages. We were together for 9 years, and married 4 years of which the last 3 years were simply a roller-coaster ride for me.
I think he might have some borderline personality traits, having a very EU mother who abused him (physically) from age 0-13. Then he also had intense anger management issues, would shout and scream at me (and I am a conflict-avoidance type of person) so I would just go quiet and take all the verbal abuse (which I now was the exact wrong thing to do). Because he would then storm off and leave the house and come back in the evening with a ‘sheepish’ look on his face saying sorry and he saw ‘red’.
Now in hindsight I should have not accepted all these red flags (which were there from start) but I was sooooooo in-love and I am such a people pleaser/Fixer type of person that I just thought: ok, you can fix it he says he loves you and you are his everything and he has no one in the world but you, so you can be strong for him. He has so many issues with his dysfunctional family and himself. No one can fix it for him. I know that now.
My family never liked him, and found him hostile. He didn’t like them either and he used to blame them for a lot of the problems in our relationship saying that if ‘my parents’ would be more supportive he would be able to see a future with me (this is AFTER we have gotten married).
There were so many hurtful words and emotional outbursts that in the end I was fed up with his behaviour. He had isolated me from my family, because when I did see them he would get upset that I would spend time with them and yet he would not want to come and would tell me: why should I want to be with them who has disrespected me? Then the next day he would be all sweet and declare his undying love for me. I never knew when he was going to be in happy or depressed mood. His mood swings were undpredictable. And he would blame me for it sometimes, saying that since I am not a ‘sex addict’ as him and since I am so boring he gets bored with me and depressed.
During our marriage he left me two times, once in 2011 for 3 months (to his homecountry and travelling to Thailand) to think about whether he can ‘cope’ being married. He came back and I took him back, then he said no he wants a divorce in 2012 and decided to leave (again back to his homecountry and travelling around Europe) for 4 months. I told him I will sell our marital home because i dont want to stay there after our divorce, When the house sale is almost finished he decided he wants me back.
This time I tell him are you sure, he says he CAN’T IMAGINE being away from me for 1 day! Wherever I go he will come. And as I had planned a 10 months trip around the world (quit my job to get away from daily grind and try to get my head around being single after all my dreams of family and husband had been shattered by him), he says he will come to the end of world with me. I a super happy and he joins me in the travels, he says he wants to forge a new relationship with my family too. He has seen that his old ways were hostile and not welcoming so we decide after the trip is ended we should visit them and have a ‘family meeting’.
5 months into our trip – he has another one of his rages (he used to have them regularly before, but they had subsided or so I thought) and for 2 hours in the streets of Argentina he hurls insults at me. When I try to leave he tells me I am selfish to not want to ‘fix our relationship’. I am just at loss, I tell him if I am so difficult ‘to live with/love’ then maybe we should go our separate ways. He says he wants to leave immediately (our tickets were for another 5 months)and as he never had any credit cards I tell him he can use my credit card to get his ticket back. He storms off, comes back in the evening to the hostel and tells me he loves me too much to leave me by myself travelling in South America. He can’t have that on his conscience. Instead he says he will travel as a friend.
We continue a very awkward and at time very emotionally taxing travel for 5 months, where he is so cold and distant and even ‘acts out’ a couple of times getting so drunk that he loses his passport. Basically for me it was the worst emotional roller coaster in my life (or so I thought at the time).
When we are back home in 2013, I decide I need to leave and do some healing work. I go to see my sister in Australia and then after wards I come back, he meets me and we are intimate for the first time after his rejection during our travels. I tell him, this wont change anything. We are still divorcing and he says he cant believe that we are divorcing. ANd I say yes, but you know why. You told me so many times over the past 3 years that you cant see a future with me or children. I leave 2 months later in Jan 2014 to Far East to work.
What my biggest mistake was to keep in touch with him on the phone and text while I was in Far East last year. I cried every other night and missed him terribly, but also I cried for the loss of my dream of a family with him (he had also done the future faking with me whenever he wanted me).
Then when I start to feel better last summer, I stop calling and texting. He notices this and starts making an effort, even asks me for money (which I am foolish enough to give) because he is setting up a restaurant and he doesn’t have enough.
Then as I start dating a rebound guy, my ex-EUM husband calls me and tells he needs to tell me before it gets too late.
He has CHANGED! He wants all that I want. A proper wedding (we never had one since he didn’t want to spend the money) and marriage and kids and the whole thing. I didn’t believe him. I told him it won’t work, we tried in the past. He kept changing his mind during our marriage and I cant see how all the past issues have all of a sudden disappeared? He told me oh he has thought through all of his behaviours and he knows he made mistakes….. But he was inexperienced (he was 33 when we divorced). He tried again 2-3 times over the phone, and kept saying that he doesn’t have any money to come to Far East and if he had money he wouldn’t lose me who is ‘his everything’ (again now I was his everything). So I said well why don’t you go and live your life, get yourself sorted so you have enough money to be able to afford to come and see me and basically not living on the breadline (we have lived on the breadline before, because he couldn’t get himself a proper job while I worked fulltime and got our mortgage and were able to pay the rent and all bills, he doesn’t have any education but yet thinks that he should be his own boss and can’t work for anyone in a company).
So we don’t talk for 3 months, but all that work I had done to move forward starts slipping, I fall into a depression. This depression worsens this year between January and March, as he calls me again and begs for us to be together he can’t believe that ‘just because’ he doesn’t have money, he can’t have me as ‘mother of his children. This is from someone, who never wanted a child with me in the first place, told me he doesn’t think he is the married type and repeatedly had told me he can’t stand me and my family.
When I told him that its not all about money, he would say yes it is because he had FORGIVEN ME….. What about me? What about all those times you screamed and shouted insults at me? I can’t believe you have now changed based on a few months of ‘deep thinking’. And I said do you think its normal to break up and make up EVERY YEAR? And he said YES, for your true love you do everything. But I said no I am tired of this roller coaster But I still love you, and I just can’t see it working. Maybe in a couple of years time? He said no, if you don’t want me now I am gonna go ahead and move on. So I should have started NO CONTACT then but still allowed him to talk to me (I still had love for him more than for me I think). Then a couple of weeks later he says there is a girl who tells him she loves him, so I say Oh you have a gf then why you talking to me? But he says no she isn’t my gf yet and she knows about you. She knows that you are the love of my life (now I am his love of life that he can just leave and come back to whenever). I don’t believe he just all of a sudden got himself a gf he probably had this girl on the side from last year, but they became official this year. He even tells me about her, yes the gf knows about ME and SHE still loves him, and wants to be with him, even if he has my name TATOOED on his neck and whenever he wants to he will call me and text me while she is around. He tells me ‘we are so matched’.
That’s when I REALISED he has NOT CHANGED> he was just empty words again. I stopped calling him, and have had no contact for over a month. But it is hard to get over this depression. I don’t want him back. But I can’t seem to stop thinking about all the hurtful behaviours and words he told me over the past few years. And even more hurtful was his behaviour this year. Because he called me up saying he can’t live without me and I am the love of his life, and when I told him I don’t know how to go back to ‘us’ maybe if both of us give it another year (he can set himself up and I can set my teaching career up so we are both ‘established’ and healed) he said oh ok I’m not waiting any longer for you, its now or never…. I’m moving on, and within a couple of weeks had a gf that he is so matched with and loves. What kind of love did he have for me?
I have been struggling to get over our 9 year marriage for the past 15 months…. it took him much less time. I wish I had never married him. I wish I had listened to my parents …… Because in the end my support network is coming from parents now. He told me he would ‘always’ be there for me come rain or shine, and he left me several times in our marriage and now for good.
Sorry for the lengthy post. I really have been trying to do all the exercises and written 2 unsent letters and spoken for several hundred hours about all the ‘problems’ for the past month with my support group. But still I am sooo down…. I have always been a cheerful and happy person, even when he left me twice I didnt let that get me down. But this time its like I finally realised how badly I ALLOWED him to treat me and still I had/have love for him. It’s hard to understand why I can’t let go of someone that obviously is no good for me?? ANY advice is welcome…..
Why
on 09/05/2015 at 11:30 am
kee, get into therapy and block ALL of his contacts. just blocking him everywhere will give enough space to think of you and for you.
who cares what he wants from you? he’s OUT. now block him and show him he really is.
no, he has not changed. but even if he has, he is not the right person for you. plus, you have too much bad memories between you two. a responsible thing would be to let go and learn from this. but this is not what he’s doing or gonna do. maybe it’s just some ploy for money. maybe it’s as easy as that. there’s no surprise there’s someone else whom he’s holding on ice, the other woman. gosh, what a mess. but it no longer is YOUR mess.
why he said this, why he said that…imagine you got in your car which is parked in a totally snowed driveway. You start your engine but you CAN’T MOVE until you move all that snow in your way. You can scream at the snow, wait for Spring to melt the snow or try any other scenarios. The only scenario that’s gonna work though is that you take a shovel and push that pile of snow to the curb and clean a passage for yourself.
Once you pushed this snow to the side, you can jump in your car and drive the hell out of that driveway. You have the car, you know the road, you know what you need to do. He’s just snow. He does not matter pertaining to what YOU will do with YOUR life.
kee
on 09/05/2015 at 2:22 pm
Oh Why, thank you so much for your kind words and uplifting analogy.
I am so aware I am ‘stuck’. Its just like you say, I am in the car, I know the road, but I am not going anywhere. The snow is all in the way….. I feel so down because I seem to have also ‘lost’ my shovel. 🙁
I have no more contact with him, although I have to get my money back and also he has some of my stuff in a storage back home, remember I am in Far East (I pay for the storage but he has the key as he also has his stuff there). I plan on not contacting him for these things but my dad will deal with him later this summer. SO even if I don’t have any contact, I can’t yet ‘delete’ all cords until later this year when all of this is finalised.
Thank you for your sweet words …. It is definitely needed.
Sofia
on 09/05/2015 at 3:34 pm
kee,
I think it’s an addiction on your part. Codependency. Please block all his contact and get into therapy as soon as you can. You are not missing him. You are having withdrawals from addiction to pain. Strangely enough but we can get addicted to pain and want it again, thinking it’s love. The guy, by the way, is a borderline psychopath, I think. I avoid giving labels to anyone, but reading your story made me think that he is mentally unstable and perhaps even dangerous. I had a boyfriend like that several years ago and back then because I was so broken, I got constantly involved in the drama and took him back thinking with love, understanding, and patience I can fix him. Only 7 years later I understand now that he is mentally unwell, immature adult-child stuck in some unresolved development phase. He is still the same and has not changed a bit. They don’t change unless they have a life epiphany and want a change themselves, but of course people like that lack introspective and don’t think anything is wrong with them. They have zero self-awareness.
Good you are physically away from him. People come into our lives for a purpose. They reveal to us who we are and what we need to improve and change. I firmly believe that once you go through the healing and therapy you will see the light and understand why he happened to you, why you kept taking him back, and why you are depressed now. It will all get well with time, but for now, block him and seek help and counseling.
kee
on 09/05/2015 at 6:17 pm
Sofia
Thank you for your words. I think it was addiction too, because it was not healthy, I remember telling a friend I met here in Far East about my relationship (who did not know him and never met him) and she said it sounded more like you were ‘familiar mother figure’ than his wife. And that is what I think I have learnt from him.
He wanted a mother (his mother was awful to him as a child) and you are right he did sometimes act out like a teenager or even at times as a 3-year old throwing a tantrum.
I have some issues about therapy, because here the language is a barrier so the earliest I can get some therapy is in 10 months time. I don’t want to continue feeling like this though for that long. I feel I have given enough of my life to him. If I could just stop having these nightmares then I think my mood in the day would improve too.
Any suggestions to get over nightmares?
Sofia
on 10/05/2015 at 1:57 am
Kee, do you believe in God or any High Power? Meditation, prayer? These can help you to have calm nights with good dreams or no dreams. Drinking alcohol, too much caffeine, dark chocolate (too much of it!) triggered weird dreams for me. I pray before I go to sleep and fall sleep with a cross in my hand sometimes when I am particularly anxious during that day or before going to sleep. If you are not a believer, I think yoga might help you. You need to relax your mind and body. You are having vivid disturbing dreams because you are tense and depressed in your waking hours. Try a calming soothing tea before going to bed. Warm bath. Develop a ritual to calm yourself down before sleep but most importantly throughout the day. Read this blog, wear out yourself with exercise if there is a gym or place to run or walk where you live. I see you are in a different country, so you can’t find a therapy due to the language obstacle. Try reading as much as you can. This blog and the books that people recommend. The reading material choices depend whether you are spiritual or not. Spiritual literature along with psychology and BR have been my healing tools over a year now.
kee
on 10/05/2015 at 10:06 am
Sofia
Yes I so believe in the healing power of YOGA. I wish I had access to group yoga exercises, I feel I am in a rut right now. The yoga I do is minimal (or barely any, more like stretching). I know how to do it ‘correctly’ I have even had training it (professionally in India). So it is more like my mind is distracted and I cant seem to be able to shut it off, or get it to stay still. Plus I dislike doing yoga at home, it makes me feel ‘trapped inside all day’ and the gym I go to doesn’t offer it so I end up doing some yoga stretches by myself on the mat.
It is so hard though to get going, I think it is because of my depression. I used to practice 5x a week back home before I came over to Far East. Some things I really do miss from home….. like the accessibility to yoga studios and like-minded people lol 🙂
I don’t drink (I gave that up on NY day this year cause I realised I was drinking last year because of being in pain as a coping mechanism), I drink only one cup of coffee a week and 1 green tea a day, I am pescatarian here but back home I was 100% vegan so I am all about eating healthy with lots of fruit and veggies, I take my supplements here too but in the end I think I have been so down for so long it is not going to just get better by itself all of a sudden in one day.
It took me a good while to get this low though (at one point a couple of months I actually was considering the point of staying alive – I know scary!!) so I guess it will take a while to get back to being happy and feeling hopeful again.
Today – having blogged and got all of your supportive messages the past 24h has helped me – I feel a little stronger :). I have been studying all day so I guess that means I can focus on something meaningful a little longer than before.
Veracity
on 09/05/2015 at 2:55 pm
Great analogy, Why! I’m going to use this as a visualization when I need to get unstuck! Thanks! Veracity
Mary Jane
on 09/05/2015 at 8:46 pm
Hi Why,
It is probably 80 degrees here today. I feel like my driveway is covered with snow. I am moving slow. It would take me a month to shovel out at this rate. This reminds me of the story people tell about the caged bird. One day the cage door is open and the little bird still want fly out. That is me today. I guess I just don’t have the energy mentally to dig out.
MJ
Say Something
on 09/05/2015 at 1:09 pm
Kee,
I reading your post, although you say you miss him terribly, everything you write about is truly a reason NOT to miss him. You didn’t mention the wonderful, thoughtful times with him. You didn’t mention how caring he was toward you. You didn’t mention how special he treated you. He has treated you horribly and you have recognized it. You admitted to losing your dream of a family and even said that he didn’t want children with you. Throwing the new gf in the picture was to control you. It’s triangulation, and he wants to seem more valuable than he is. I really don’t know what GOOD qualities you saw in him, but even if he possesses any, giving him another try is not going to remove the pain that he has caused. These are your words:
“I think he might have some borderline personality traits
he also had intense anger management issues, would shout and scream at me
I would just go quiet and take all the verbal abuse
He has so many issues with his dysfunctional family and himself
His mood swings were undpredictable. And he would blame me for it sometimes, saying that since I am not a ‘sex addict’ as him and since I am so boring he gets bored with me and depressed
During our marriage he left me two times
for 2 hours in the streets of Argentina he hurls insults at me
he calls me again and begs for us to be together he can’t believe that ‘just because’ he doesn’t have money, he can’t have me as ‘mother of his children. This is from someone, who never wanted a child with me in the first place, told me he doesn’t think he is the married type and repeatedly had told me he can’t stand me and my family”
You have basically said he is:
Uneducated
Financially unstable
Verbally and emotionally abusive
A sex addict
Hater of your family
Uninterested in starting a family
Unpredictable
Unreliable
Cruel
Insensitive
Angry
Manipulative
Involved with another woman
Meanwhile, you are NOT this type of person at all. From what I’ve read, we can be caught in a “trauma bond” with someone. It’s unhealthy. It’s addicting. And you need to get out of it.
I am reading Natalie’s book ‘The No Contact Rule” right now. I’ve just hit the section about depression. I suggest you read it if you haven’t yet. She says:
“You may feel so much pain at the loss of the relationship or still feel like you’re drawn to them even if you’re not acting upon it and it may feel depressing because you really wish you didn’t feel like this.”
You are over-caring for someone who doesn’t deserve anything from you AT ALL. Depression comes before acceptance. I think I’m lingering in that space myself right now.
Use your pain to fight for what you REALLY WANT.
kee
on 09/05/2015 at 5:12 pm
Say something,
Thank you for repeating all my word to me – I think I needed to re-read them again to let it sink in. I know i didnt highlight the positive, its because the positive has been overshadowed by all the negative behaviours …..
I used to only remember the positives last year when I was still crying for him in bed, remembering how sweet he would/could be towards me when he was ‘happy’ and how he would always pick me up from work and drop me off at the train station in the morning (especially in winters when it was freezing) even though he didn’t have to go to work at same time as me (when he had a job that is). He would do little sweet things for me, like get me favorite sweet to have with tea and make me breakfast in bed. And even if he was ‘non-commital’ I trusted him to be faithful. He has a special thing about him when it comes to being unfaithful, when he was with me I am 100% sure he was faithful even though girls would flirt with him (sometimes while he was standing holding hands with me) which he never reciprocated. He was soooo good looking, and he knew it! I mean he did have good qualities — just not enough of them.
But this year, following his last attempt to get me back and at the same time tell me about his gf, I have been focusing on ‘WHY’ i didn’t take him back. Because when I was telling him no, I couldn’t put a finger on why my instincts were saying no. I just told him we have ‘too much baggage’ to which he responded ‘but those were just mistakes, we both made mistakes, we were young and inexperienced (we are both the same age so not so young and inexperienced in my view).
I started to really think back on the relationship and then i started to remember so many instances that were abnormal. I allowed it because I loved him and I also thought he was unhappy because of :
1) me (if I did something differently then maybe he would become happier)
2) his dysfunctional family dynamics (which I supported him on and tried helping him with to create a ‘normal’ bond with his family, that is until he started to open up to me about the abuse. At which point I thought it might be best for him to cut contact with them and instead get therapy, but he never wanted therapy as he said he knows his issues and he is dealing with them).
I agree with you, I am over-caring and I am in depression for sure. I want to get out of this state. I know he is not worth it and I know I deserve more. I knew that last year (hence moving across the world). I am just upset with myself that I can’t just snap out of it! I do little things everyday, but EVERYTHING is a struggle. I feel like I am in a fog, and I know there is a road in front of me but it is so hard to take one step in front of me ‘blindly’. Plus something that is not helping the situation is that I did move ACROSS the world to get away from him, but it also meant I moved away from my friends and family. So my support network is mainly through phone and online. I feel extremely isolated.
I have 10 more months of my contract left here, so it is just trying to survive the next 10 months without getting into a clinical depressed state.
I might read the book you recommended…
Thank you so much for your words! Appreciated 🙂
Say Something
on 09/05/2015 at 6:31 pm
Kee,
I’ll point out your own words again, which you used somewhat as qualifiers for the happy times:
when he had a job that is
even if he was ‘non-commital’
even though girls would flirt with him (sometimes while he was standing holding hands with me)
i started to remember so many instances that were abnormal
^Red flags galore^
We all process grief differently, and at our own pace. I’m almost at the one year mark and it’s frustrating as hell. There is no way to “snap out if it” and that’s why we are here. This site is our common denominator.
Look up Sandra Brown (author of Women Who Love Psychopaths) and super traits. Everyone else has also provided helpful advice and suggestions.
NC is crucial. You may never be paid back, and best to let that go. It’s a way of holding on. Sounds like you are doing well in your career, and he has been nothing more than a parasite. Loving the wrong person is painful. Beating yourself up about it causes suffering.
These are also your words:
I know he is not worth it and I know I deserve more
So true.
kee
on 10/05/2015 at 8:12 am
Say something
Oh wow – I just read a description of Sandra Brown’s super traits …. THAT IS SO ME!
I am so: Excitement Seeking, Extraverted and Dominant. I like to be in control, love to travel and see exciting new things and definitely an extrovert.
Although now that I am depressed/heartbroken all of the above traits are somewhat lacking/disappeared.
I also have very high amounts of the following :
(Competitive) – less
Sentimentality
Bonding
Attachment
Tolerance
Friendliness
Empathy
Helpfulness
Compassion
Responsibility
Purposefulness
Resourcefulness
Loyalty
Trust
I guess I need to look out for who I allow enter into my life, because I think I used to call myself a very ‘accommodating and flexible’ person but maybe in reality maybe it was a sign for just high amounts of tolerance, attachment, empathy and sympathy. That is perhaps why I was soooooo in-love with my ex-EUM.
It is true the love I have felt for him I have never felt for anyone else, and I had a couple of boyfriends before him but I never imagined marrying them. While the way I ‘fell’ for my ex-husband, I was determined that we would make it because of our Love (he would confess to having an undying love for me too).
‘Women who love psychopaths tested very high in relationship investment and positive sociability.’
OK yes, I had VERY high relationship investment and VERY positive sociability. Now maybe I need to ‘curb’ these traits somehow?
How is everyone else dealing with this knowledge (if you think you have some of these traits in excess?). Is it just practicing being aware? Or trying to lessen their degree?
Say Something
on 10/05/2015 at 12:17 pm
Hi Kee,
Well not all EUM are psychopaths, but I would bet that that these traits attract EUM as well. I don’t KNOW that the guy I was with was a psychopath, but he was def EU and he has several traits. He was a future faker. He claimed (in the aftermath) that I never knew the REAL him. He pulled a Jekyll-Hyde breakup on me. I witnessed a totally different personality emerge on the spot. Told me “I feel like I’m living a lifestyle that isn’t mine.” He fell asleep next to me while I was crying, and it didn’t seem to bother him at all. He was able to cut me off and never see me again. He was with someone else in less than a month, possibly sooner.
If you relate, get the book ‘Women Who Love Psychopaths’ and read her articles. http://saferelationshipsmagazine.com/
I don’t think you can “curb” your traits, but being aware and making different choices IS within your power. The traits listed are POSITIVE ones, but they can be exploited.
The person you are fleeing also seems to have many borderline traits, and obviously has MANY, MANY problems. Stop giving ANYTHING to him. You are not “giving up on him” but rather you are saving yourself.
kee
on 10/05/2015 at 3:58 pm
Hi Say Something
THANK YOU! The quote I need to remember: I am not giving up on him but I am rather saving myself.
I think I lost that thought somewhere in the midst of my depression between last year and now. I actually have been feeling bad for ‘giving up on our love’ and giving up on him.
Because according to him, ‘he waited for me for a year after our divorce and tried his best to get me back’ (he tells me this as he recounts how ‘free and light he feels having accepted the break up and moved on’).
Wow – your ex-EUM seems VERY cold! That is very mean behaviour…..
I agree, I think in hindsight this year I have read up on borderline personality disorder and on paper he matches so many traits. On the other hand reading up on psychopaths, well he exhibits traits of that too. 🙁
Although I think he is able to exhibit sympathy (maybe not empathy) – and regret to some degree.
But in my experience, he didn’t exhibit positive traits strongly and consistently. For years he exhibited poor behaviours, it was just that I was always ‘blinded’ by how good his loving words were and how he would put me up on a pedestal (before bringing me and my whole family down on me when he had an emotional outburst). I always tried to excuses his poor behaviours by either agreeing with him (about me not being supportive enough or understanding that he would get frustrated because we didn’t have sex 4 times a day – which is what he used to claim was what he needed) or agreeing that something my family had said was perhaps disrespectful and I would try to calm him down.
Tbh he did ‘change’ somewhat over the years, his outbursts and so called need for sex 4 times a day subsided but never completely went away. Well, according to him he had no more issues with me after we divorced but HOW can I be sure of that based on years of historical evidence?
I have read that borderline personality disorder is treatable, but needs a lot of work in therapy> I remember suggesting to him in 2011 that he might want to see someone go to a doctor to get help (back then I meant for his depression, because he would get sooo low and depressed and then he would have snap out of it after a few weeks and be all happy and energetic) maybe the doc would have realised he has BPD traits and it might have made a difference. But he never wanted to see anyone.
In the end – its always their loss right? Not ours. I just wish my heart would hurry up and follow the logic of my head…..
Say Something
on 11/05/2015 at 12:34 pm
Kee,
“Well, according to him he had no more issues with me after we divorced but HOW can I be sure of that based on years of historical evidence?”
You have more than enough evidence. He has issues that will last him a lifetime, but they don’t need to last for YOUR lifetime.
CUT HIM OFF. Stay NC.
Pick a new baby name.
Stop giving him money.
Don’t give him your time.
Your heart cannot hurry. Call it feeling bad for him, a habit, addiction, whatever. Whatever you want to call it is still unhealthy. Don’t try to normalize what’s abnormal about him.
Diane
on 09/05/2015 at 2:27 pm
@Kee, this is the kind of relationship that drives someone to kill, commit suicide, or go insane. Should by some miracle none of those things happen, then the “best case scenario” is that you live a completely miserable life. This man doesn’t know how to have a relationship. When he’s with you, he’s anxiety-ridden and frightened over feeling “trapped.” When he’s not, his anxiety lessens, he panics, and chases you. But when he’s with you, he doesn’t know how to be. YOU can NOT solve his issues! In fact, it’s clear from your recounting that he thinks everything is your fault and he has no issues. You’ve given him more than enough chances to “change” and he hasn’t and will not. Forgive yourself for loving him and hoping he would change– you are human and I’m sure he had his good points. But he is not a relationship person and that is his problem to figure out (and likely he never will, most men like this easily find another woman who will hang around hoping he “changes”). Block ALL contact, since you don’t have kids you can do this, and know that your depression will lighten in time — but only deepen if you continue with this madness. I’ve been there (though not with all of the traveling!) and I came out of it. Good luck!
Sofia
on 09/05/2015 at 3:37 pm
Diane, I agree. The man is dangerous. The story of his behavior is scary. I hope Kee will stay very far away from him.
kee
on 09/05/2015 at 6:00 pm
Thank you Sophia! Yes, he was no good for my emotional, mental or spiritual being….
kee
on 09/05/2015 at 5:23 pm
Diane
I know I felt like I was going in insane, especially in 2013!! I also felt like I was making progress last year and would have if I had BLOCKED contact with him earlier.
Well I guess lesson learnt for future eh?
You said ‘from your recounting that he thinks everything is your fault and he has no issues.’:
I think that was what I didn’t understand? When I told him but seriously you have no issues with me anymore? You had issues with me (or yourself perhaps) for the past 9 years and by thinking about the past and your behaviours and our relationship as a whole you have no longer ANY issues? And I know he didn’t go to any therapy, so he has just “thought his problems away”.
I think there is a point why I couldn’t take him back, but he only got hung up about the money part (well he is currently broke, because he hasn’t yet been able to pay me my money back and lives in a single rented studio). When I asked him how envisaged us getting back together and living and getting married and have kids, when he has no house car or steady income (the restaurant he opened with his friend is not making profit yet) and I am starting a new career and need a couple of years to get myself settled (financially and otherwise) he said: it doesn’t matter as long as we are together we can do it. We have love and then everything else comes…… But what is very disturbing is that we had Love, House, Car and Job BEFORE and he didn’t want it and threw it away…… But to him that was just ‘a mistake’ because at the age of 33 he was still inexperienced and not knowledgeable about relationships….
I can’t wait to get out of this feeling. I know its not good for me I just don’t know how long I am supposed to feel this pain before ‘it’ leaves me?
Diane
on 09/05/2015 at 7:49 pm
@Kee, you can be sure that not only will this man continue to drain you emotionally and spiritually, but financially too — while you are handing him your hard-earned cash, are you saving for retirement? Investing? Buying a home? Why he is a good investment for you financially? He’s not. Don’t give him one more penny. My guess is he wants to use you as his personal ATM machine.
There is no timeline on feeling pain — you were with him for 9 years and need to mourn all of the hopes and dreams you had for him. Don’t go back to the source of your pain hoping he alleviates your pain. He won’t.
For myself, 8 months after my break with my EUM, I was still feeling very heart heavy, so I began studying Buddhism. That helped A LOT for me. It was the first religion to tell me point blank that life doesn’t always go as planned or desired — that is part of life. You did nothing wrong. It focuses on learning to let go.
Reading support boards like BR also helps. As for me reading books like “Men Who Can’t Love,” “He’s Scared, She’s Scared,” etc.
Meditating helped. Taking care of myself. Putting MYSELF as a priority. Exercise. Healthy eating habits.
What does not work: Drinking, casual sex, rebound “relationships,” trying to fill a void with a man. Beating myself up for “giving too many chances” or “believing his lies” etc.
Working on forgiving yourself.
There are myriad ways to move through the pain. No contact works wonders. I think I didn’t totally get over things until I fully realized I couldn’t email him occasionally “as friends” or “casually” or “because I’m bored” etc. I do not stalk anymore, I don’t even LOOK at his Facebook page. If I’m ever tempted, I think, “I’m having a pretty good day, and feeling pretty good. Why would I want to chance seeing something that will make my day, possibly my week, miserable?”
For some people therapy works — I did a bit of it, but honestly, Natalie is a better and cheaper therapist than most of them. Mine did offer me a few golden nuggets that were helpful though.
It’s a PROCESS. Your pain doesn’t miraculously disappear one day. Even now, about 4 years after my break, and 4 months after total NC, I can have moments of pain, regret, heavy heart. But they move along swiftly.
kee
on 10/05/2015 at 7:44 am
Hi Diane
Yes I sometimes feel like I am mourning my dreams and hopes more than him, well he is linked to the dreams but he is no longer THE dream. I feel like I have wasted so many years… I should have given up on him in 2011 when he left me the first time. But when you are married, you don’t give up just like that do you? I mean I didn’t get married to get divorced, I got married cause I was dreaming of having a long life with him.
He was so hot and cold on the issue of family with me, but what tops it all off is that following our divorce he has named the restaurant with MY BABY name.
Ok, so when we were married I had already gone far ahead in thinking what names we would have for our children, I had already told him those and he had accepted the names and would ‘talk about our 2 children’ and what we would do as a family, just wouldn’t accept to actually having/making them. He kept hesitating and saying ‘we’ll see’ or ‘when the time is right’.
THen he goes in to what I call ‘fantasy-land’ and last year when he is begging me back, he tells me he is wearing his wedding ring now every day (He never wore it before, he used to wear it on his keyring), and this is after we have divorced and I am living in a different country.
He doesn’t tell me what he plans to do with the restaurant, but this year I find out he has named it in ‘my honor’ with the flag of my home country (different from his) and ‘the name of the baby’ I always talked about. He told me he had envisioned I will come back to him, he will propose, I will say yes and we will get married and have the kids I always talked about. Is this NORMAL?? I mean I guess flattering, if we were actually married, but once I have left because of several rejections, is it normal to behave like this?
These words has not helped me in my process AT ALL. Because he said those things earlier this year and then a couple of weeks later he is telling me how he has accepted that we are over and there is this girl etc…..
I remember crying so much hearing this dream of his, because it sounded like a movie, but also because I had wanted that for 5 years while he only seemed to have decided he wanted it AFTER we have divorced. But wanting something (a dream) and actually producing it is what I didn’t believe he would actually be able to do.
I read somewhere on Natalie’s post that the EUM is a dreamer, somewhat fickle, and I don’t know if all of his actions the past 15 months were just part of a big ‘dream’ or not.
I guess these thoughts keep distracting me from focusing on myself. Even while I am studying today I find my thoughts drifting to his words, And in the end of the day they were words because I never went back to him ( for the 3rd time) to see if they were REAL or not.
I am not religious, I do believe in some higher energy in Universe though. I have read Power of now and other yogic books, but not so much Buddhist (although Yoga and buddhism have very similar ideas and literally 5 core differences). I have listened to Buddist monks talks about happiness, but I think I need to learn the art of letting go.
‘How to get out of this fog and pain and I wish I had done this instead of that’ attitude is the book I want to read! lol Anyone heard of something like that?
What kills me is my own behaviour more than his. I had always treated him better than myself, I had put him first and ‘invested time and money’ in him for what? What is the return of that investment? Only a hard life lesson learnt…. No one should be worthy of you so you lose yourself in the process. I think Nat had a post about something like this a few weeks back. I have learnt my lesson, but I regret it took me so long to realise it. Even this year I bought him a present (before I went NC) for his birthday that was delivered to his workplace (I have always bought him presents or at least a birthday card, even when it was rocky or we were separated). I think I thought more of him like a family member, you don’t give up on your family member. But actually in this case, I think I should have given up and will now give up on him.
I bet you he won’t be buying me anything this year let alone sending me a card. Not that I want it, but it just shows his true nature….. Last year his birthday present was a phone call, he told me he couldn’t afford anything else.
You are right Diane, he is not sound investment. I am just sad because I made such a HUGE investment and I feel he played with my life. Even after we broke up he kept playing with my emotions. Or should I say I allowed him to play with me? Either way, the only way is up…. Just such an uphill right now!
Diane
on 10/05/2015 at 2:54 pm
@Kee, this man can talk to invisible babies, but not real ones. He can name a restaurant after a baby, but not have one. He can put up the flag of your country, but not honor and respect you as a person. None of those things require real effort or commitment — anyone can look at an empty space and call it by a name and baby talk it. Don’t take any of that junk seriously. And stop focusing on his words because they were just that, words! Guys like this thrive on words and they know women respond to things like “You’re the love of my life.” Words and actions should match. Yes, maybe you should have left in 2011, but maybe not. Maybe you would have always wondered what would have happened if you gave him another chance. Well, now you know. No need to wonder any more. And no need to wonder about the third chance you never gave, because you know exactly what would have happened there too. Congratulate yourself for finally choosing yourself over him. 9 years is a long time but you’ll see women on this board who gave up 20 or more … I gave up 6, and even more if you count the time I spent back-and-forthing via email with him after I broke it off. It’s okay … some of us learn our lessons slowly … but the important thing is that we learn them. Be gentle on yourself … you’ve been battered enough, have compassion for yourself.
Diane
on 10/05/2015 at 7:55 pm
@Kee, and I just wanted to respond to this part: “But when you are married, you don’t give up just like that do you? I mean I didn’t get married to get divorced, I got married cause I was dreaming of having a long life with him.”
I hear a lot of women use marriage as a reason to put up with bad treatment. I think it’s that “better or worse” line that gets to them. For me, “worse” means my partner gets cancer — not that my partner abuses me. “Worse” means he loses his job, not that he loses all his money gambling or seeing hookers. “Worse” means our house blows away in a storm, not that he knocks it down with his own hands in a fit of rage.
And “better or worse” definitely doesn’t mean “he gets the better, I get the worse.”
By those definitions, he is the one who “gave up” on the marriage, not you.
kee
on 11/05/2015 at 4:27 am
WOW Diane! That’s so true! It’s the for better or worse that makes me feel like I ‘gave up’. Also You are right, He made most of the ‘worse’ happen….
There were quite a few ‘worse’ actions and these actions hurt me so much, I didnt realise how much til this year, because the nightmares are all mixed up with his latest words from earlier this year (about me being the love of his life/the restaurant and baby name etc) and the actions of him dismissing me and being cold during our relationship.
I feel I am so weak for his words, that is my problem. His words affects me so much. 🙁
Well, now that I have gone NC its the words from the before that haunts me.
truthinclarity
on 09/05/2015 at 2:33 pm
Hi Kee,
You are much stronger than you give yourself credit for, you’ve been through a lot emotionally and it’s very normal to miss him. You were together for a long time. As I see it, I think you are on your way to recovery. You are doing the work (i.e unsent letters) and more importantly, you are not romanticizing him by focusing on his good qualities. Sometimes we do that by refusing to see the real person, instead we focus on the fantasy. You recognize that is not the right person for you and you admit not wanting him back.
As for learning to let him go, Why has given you some good advise. In my case, I learn to change my thought process. We teach our mind to think the way we want it to think. Learning to meditate is the starting point. It is hard in the beginning if you are not used to quiet your mind, and many people give up immediately. But like everything worthy in life, we must be consistent. Also, think about the times you are likely to miss him. Is it late at night or when you are alone? Late at night, that’s when meditation helps. During the day, go out with a friend, go for a run, get a manicure/pedicure, get a new hobby, join a social club. For me, doing all those things are little ways I learned to take care of myself. Focusing on improving my Spanish saved me after a humiliating breakup. Last but certainly not least, reading this blog. I am so incredibly grateful for this blog and all the people that share their stories, however painful they might be. As for Natalie, I think of her as my spiritual sister, I can never thank her enough for her wisdom and straightforwardness. So kee, take comfort in the fact that you are recovering from this painful experience. I have no doubt that you will be your cheerful self again. Don’t give up if it doesn’t happen as quickly as you want, eventually, you will get there. I wish you a peaceful weekend.
kee
on 09/05/2015 at 5:59 pm
Truthinclarity
Thank you for your words – i dont feel so strong though> i feel weak. I have always been able to get back into a happier state even when things were ‘rocky’ between me and my ex-husband.
It is for sure late at night and weekends that are a struggle. I am trying to fill my time with reading blogs (like this one), hiking as exercise and also studying for my MA but i do miss the social life I had access to back home to get my mind off things. Plus for so many years I was used to putting HIM first. Although in his mind I was a very selfish person, because the one thing I didnt want to do in 2012 was ‘support him in his real estate business’ because I didn’t want to take out a 2nd mortgage in my name for him to get enough capital to get into real estate (his background is building renovation that he learnt on the job, he has no formal qualifications just raw talent). He obviously couldn’t get a mortgage cause he never had a good enough credit.
I feel this recovering might just take forever, I have so little life force right now. on weekends i struggle to get out of bed
🙁 and I force myself to go outside hiking for a couple of hours or I will just stay inside in front of computer either studying or reading blogs and getting distracted by my own mind.
I also have recurrent bad dreams EVERY NIGHT for the past 6 months. I sometimes feel a little scared about falling asleep because so far, all my dreams are about him and me and various negative emotions. I wake up feeling exhausted.
I have been to an acupuncturist but her approach was not ‘healing’ enough. I think I need a more energy work approach to help me with my sleep.
Diane
on 09/05/2015 at 11:35 pm
@Kee, you might want to read “Love Fraud” by Donna Andersen. Between his wanting you to finance his real estate dreams and his restaurant, sounds you got yourself caught up with a real fraudster and/or psychopath. Sure, he might think those dreams can become reality, but why does he need to use YOUR money to finance them? Go get a bank loan, for god’s sake. If his credit is so bad he can’t get a loan of any kind, he will most likely make a crappy businessman too. Start putting your money towards your own future and not down a black hole — one that doesn’t treat you well to boot. Sounds like you are suffering from PTSD and the only cure for that is to go NC and stay that way and gradually heal.
shano
on 10/05/2015 at 4:29 am
Please, go get your hormone levels checked asap. Do a complete hormone panel- you could be low on Progesterone which causes major depression. If you need hormone therapy, try the bio-idenitcals first, they are a miracle.
kee
on 10/05/2015 at 9:50 am
Shano
Thanks for the advice, will look into it. Going back home for a holiday in 2 months planning on seeing My healer, docs and see whats up generally with me…..
truthinclarity
on 11/05/2015 at 2:52 am
Hi Kee,
You are not weak, from reading your original comment, I think you are adventurous and courageous. Very few people would have the courage to sell their home and living their support system behind and move to a foreign country for a job. It’s hard to be a foreigner, and I should know despite having my family living near me. I can empathize with the loneliness and alienation you are feeling.
I also understand from your posts that you are blaming/punishing yourself for allowing him to mistreat you so badly. Please forgive me if my next sentence is crude, but I think at one point we need to learn to say f…ck it, it happened and it’s in the past. We need to learn to uplift and pat ourselves on the shoulder for becoming a better version of our former selves, the version that will never let any other human being dim their light. Relationships are not mistakes if we learned the lessons that were worthwhile. Yes, you could have left sooner, but in the end you did, and that’s what count. I hope you get to the more empowering stage of acceptance and self-forgiveness soon. You are young, you still have the time to create the family you’ve always wanted with a man who will want to build a life with you. Don’t waste your precious child-bearing years rehashing the past and questioning his actions. Who cares about him. Life is short, use it wisely by taking good care of you and make the best of it everyday. Get the support you need and fight your way out bed, go out and do your best to live. If you don’t, you will wake up one day and realize that you have very little time left to start the family you have always wanted.
Finally, him naming the restaurant after a name you wanted for your child isn’t flattering. You liked that name, and I bet now you can never use it for your kid. I think he did it to be cruel.
My best to you!
kee
on 11/05/2015 at 2:47 pm
Thank you Truthiclarity!
I have no problem hearing the ‘truth’ even if its harsh. As a matter of fact my support group all say ‘harsh’ things to get me going lol.
I was in a state of denial last year, I think it has taken me around 10 months to just get to a point of really grieving my ‘loss’ (of dream). I am no longer having intense anxiety or panic attacks, but the sadness is still lingering. Still can burst into tears at the drop of a hat!
But I have a goal in mind, I am not planning on staying in this limbo forever. I have to just get through the next 10 months to get closer to my goal, and get back home to re-settle.
I sometimes do feel like I ‘should’ be in a much better position, life wise (not financially), as it is easy to get caught up in the FB-update-world (where it seems everyone has got an idyllic family life set up at this age). So thank you for reminding me that I am still ‘young’ (even though I feel this divorce has AGED me!).
I am going to study now – its 10.30pm over here, but I think I’d rather study and feel that I have been somewhat productive today than do something mindless. My mind is seldom at peace, so having read your encouraging words, I need to take hold of myself and my life! 🙂 🙂
Sofia
on 09/05/2015 at 3:44 pm
To all the BR readers and posters: if you haven’t read Codependent No More and the next book Beyond Codependency, please check both books out. I am reading two books now ( I have read the first one years ago but it didn’t register back then), and a lot of the subject we read about on BR. I couldn’t stop reading in awe yesterday. Some points I was familiar with, other ones, I was nodding my head and astonished how true it all was and had been until I started changing me. In fact most things in the first book apply to me pre-ex breakup. I was so happy to read and understand that is who I was and how much I have progressed and recognize there are still some things to work on. I think the second book will apply more to those who are already well on the healing path and getting better with each day. The first book is diagnosis and treatment, I would say. The second one is like a life continuous check-in and reaffirmation ( I haven’t read it yet, just scanned). I highly recommend both!
Why
on 09/05/2015 at 6:53 pm
Sofia, thanks so much for this reminder. I purchased “Codependent No More” and I am starting reading it today. It took me years to come to terms I have those issues and I am finally working on them. I will be definitely getting “Beyond Codependency” on your recommendation.
Oona
on 09/05/2015 at 3:47 pm
Dear Natalie – does this include politicians? I am so disappointed. All the games! on all sides!
You are right we cannot care for those who blatantly don’t care for us, in reality, but its how to defend yourself in the building of your strength back up in the meantime? while they run around doing damage everywhere they can, in a torch and burn strategy. Attacking our health, wealth and happiness head on.
You are saying let them run their own ruin to doom – without us – while we focus on what we need – WITHOUT THEM – and that even with any provocation stay AWAY from them – be independant/ self sufficient emotionally etc.. – it is THEY who need to draw us IN to THEIR drama in order to dump THEIR guilt/give themselves an ego boost/toe shine/take extra money they don’t really need at the expense of people who do etc….
Brace yourselves and buckle up – there is no way out of the ride – you either walk away emotionally and physically from disrespect and unloving behaviour or you support them effectively abusing you and others – there is no way out – unless you choose it for yourself and take the necessary actions to follow your choice and protect yourself in the future.
Unboundaried – they will get crueler and crueler until eventually – you get to a point where you finally COMMIT to your need of true health, wealth and happiness BEFORE their need to destroy you repeatedly in order to strike fear into others to tow their line – devide and conquer strategy which strikes fear into the weak in order to see who survives – survival of the fittest strategy.
Look after yourselves AND others who come across your path – if they don’t give you the same in return – RUN + stay completely independent of them – no matter what pretend carrot they wave in front of your face to stop you seeing the red flags all around them.
Oona
on 09/05/2015 at 5:05 pm
Which is in reality what they really want anyway – because if they really wanted you to be dependent on them and them on you ie truly connected with you – they would treat you with unconditional love and honesty from day 1 and continue even when the going gets tough not give it away to others and use any vulnerability you may have to abuse and take advantage of you.
If the actions don’t match the words – sack them and walk away from THEIR problem.
Rosie
on 09/05/2015 at 11:38 pm
I cried when I read this post, which I haven’t done since finding this site 2-3 years ago. The topic is exactly what my therapist and I have been working on recently. It’s normal (expected) for adult children of narcissistic parents to be overgivers while accepting and receiving very little in return. As it turns out, I’m classic textbook of someone raised by narcissistic parents.
It was scary at first to realize that both my parents were/are quite narcissistic (not full blown NPD). Yet, the more the light bulbs turn on in my head, the more compassion and self-forgiveness I’m having for myself and the choices I’ve made in everything from underachieving to men I’ve dated. It’s all making sense!
Oona
on 12/05/2015 at 12:08 am
So pleased for you Rosie – this IS where you get your wind in your sails back once and for all – and the more power to you.
Took me a real struggle – from knowing they were Narc to fully accepting that was who they were and who they were staying – no matter what I did or how good I was but I still find myself trying every now and again – less and less though – the more I fully see how they make me really feel compared to others who don’t.
Your Therapist must be good to guide you through this – I’m pleased for you – alot if they know the symptoms of a Narcissist – don’t understand the full implications of being the child of a Narcissists – just like ourselves – until it all unravels and we finally become aware and can act with our eyes fully open.
Veracity
on 12/05/2015 at 12:36 pm
Rosie & Oona,
Thank you for your post. I’m so pleased for you, Rosie. There’s so much freedom in the truth. Self compassion is such a wonderful gift.
I am just coming to terms with this myself. I kept trying to figure out which one was the Narc. I am accepting that both of them were quite Narcissistic as well. I wasn’t aware that the overgiving and (learned/expected) inability to receive was textbook for being raised by Narcs. This is one of the many things that frustrates me about therapy. I’ve gone for YEARS. It would have been very helpful to me for someone to tell me that! It would have explained a lot.
Whatever
on 19/05/2015 at 8:41 pm
I have a hard time giving to myself, and recieving. My parentas are narcs. Like right now, I have lived in the same place for 2 decades and can’t get myself to move, so I can have a pet or even for a change.
Many other things I keep changing like men and jobs, both not by choice. Is this a symptom of being raised by narcs? How does one get the hell out of that pattern? It’s very dibilitating and I feel like I am missing out on a lot of joy, like having a pet.
Whatever
on 19/05/2015 at 8:34 pm
Rosie
Tell me more about the being with Narc parents, my folks are like that too. YOu said underachieving with men, what about underachieving in life in general?
Veracity
on 10/05/2015 at 1:48 pm
In the past I found myself trying too hard, caring too much, in most of my relationships, not just romantic. I was afraid of being thought of as mean/rude/inconsiderate. I was taught to be good, compliant and that good/compliant= nice (worthy). I also had this belief that it was virtuous to be patient, flexible, and to give people the benefit of the doubt over and over again.
Basically, I was screwing myself over repeatedly. I now realize that I was taught that it was my role to lose. That there are winners and losers in every situation and my role was to lose.
If you’ve ever heard the expression “take one for the team”, that was my job/role. And I certainly wasn’t aloud to complain about it ‘cause my feelings didn’t matter – I didn’t matter. Of course I stopped recognizing that I had feelings about it and that I had a choice and that they were full of shit.
I’ve thankfully come to the place where I recognize this and am no longer willing to play that role. I also no longer want to be nice! Nice is a doormat. Nice just pisses me off these days. I kinda want to punch nice in the nose (processing some anger over here! Yay!!). I am not nice. I am kind – to myself as well as others.
I am finally at the point where if you are not meeting me halfway, you’re done. If you treat me poorly, you’re done. You want to play games? Sure, go play by yourself. You want me to do all of the work? Take a hike. You want me to take responsibility for your BS? Bite me.
I’ve had enough. Actually, I’ve had more than enough. I am worthy of being treated with dignity, kindness, respect, and consideration and in intimate relationships – love.
I matter. I always have, I just didn’t know it.
Selkie
on 11/05/2015 at 8:50 am
Love your tenacity, Veracity. 🙂
“You want me to take responsibility for your BS? Bite me.”
This is great! lol. You BS meter is back in order.
Veracity
on 11/05/2015 at 9:30 pm
🙂 Thanks, Selkie!
Yes, the BS meter is back in order!!
Why
on 11/05/2015 at 8:59 am
Yesssss, Veracity! What a powerful comment.
Say Something
on 11/05/2015 at 11:41 am
VeraciTY!!
Yes!!!
It’s like you just kick-boxed your way through the baggage.
kee
on 11/05/2015 at 2:28 pm
Thank you Veracity – I needed these words today!
I’ve felt soooo low today – need to keep on remembering your words:
‘I am worthy of being treated with dignity, kindness, respect, and consideration and in intimate relationships – love.’
Best
Kiana
Veracity
on 11/05/2015 at 9:39 pm
You’re welcome, Kiana. I’m so glad the words helped you today and I hope they continue to help you to stay strong and remember your worth. Hugs, Veracity
Oona
on 12/05/2015 at 12:22 am
Beautiful Veracity 🙂 It’s so nice to read so many who understand when you’ve been in a sea of nonbelievers all your life telling you – you are wrong – that you weren’t.
I was reading somewhere the other day that the scapegoat/ blacksheep of the family that is chosen IS always the most loving AND strong person in the family and they are chosen specifically in order to carry the families psychological problems in secret – like the families personal dumping ground. Of course we are taught to be extra loving as children – it wouldn’t work otherwise.
Loving too much, turning the blind eye & cheek to bad behaviour and strong in order to take the repeated abuse and keep going as if nothing is going on. So good to hear people having had enough and re evaluating what is really being strong and loving – to themselves. I hope it gets stronger and stronger for you.
Veracity
on 12/05/2015 at 9:40 pm
Thank you, Oona. It’s interesting to me that in my family anyone but my parents were wrong – another words, they could do no wrong, so of course it was us. So I guess we all felt like (were) the scapegoat.
Originally I was the lost child, my sister was the scapegoat. I felt/feel bad for her. I was the only one to stick up for her and try to protect her. Now it seems as though I am the scapegoat (or maybe we both are).
I was wondering if that was what was happening at work. They (bosses) deny responsibility/accountability and put it on me. Would that count as being the scapegoat?
Stephanie
on 12/05/2015 at 11:57 am
Amen.
truthinclarity
on 11/05/2015 at 1:46 am
Hi Veracity,
Big AMEN to the last five sentences.
Mary Jane
on 11/05/2015 at 2:38 am
Sofia and Say Something,
This book list is really worth reviewing. Some great books are on the list including The Four Agreements (Say Something suggested for me). It is a great list of self help books with a brief description of each. I am going to get some of these for sure.
THANK you Mary Jane! I will definitely look to get some of the books on the list!
Sofia
on 12/05/2015 at 12:49 am
Thank you, Mary Jane. Great sources of self-help and self-knowledge!
Rosie
on 11/05/2015 at 3:03 am
Veracity- “You want me to take responsibility for your BS? Bite me.”
LOL!!! I love it! 🙂
AngelFace
on 11/05/2015 at 3:51 am
Hi All & Mary Jane, Cardiovascular did it for me too. When I was devastated by something the EUM pulled, I went to gym every morning at 5am before work and did 30 minutes on treadmill, then alternated the machines. At about the eleventh minute on treadmill I had relief from obsessive thoughts.
I’m over that horrible guy. I’m getting ready to start daily cardiovascular again for the energy, joy, and weight loss it brings me.
PS. Happy Spring and Happy Mother’s Day ! Broken Hearts Heal.
Peanut
on 11/05/2015 at 4:25 am
The true diamonds of the world are found here at BR in Nat’s words. This post is soooo good like roast and carrots.
Peanut
on 11/05/2015 at 4:31 am
Nat,
It would be exceedingly cool to have a BR app. I would pay for that.
kee
on 11/05/2015 at 2:24 pm
I second that!! 🙂
Peanut
on 11/05/2015 at 6:45 am
Recently a man showed some signs of interest in me, then came the mixed signals, then came the red flags. After the red flags, I have no more desire for him. Why would I? Being with him in any capacity would only mean getting wrapped up in some sort of shadiness. If there had been a tryst, it would have invariably ended and I’d be left to deal with the fact that I willingly gave someone what they didn’t deserve (the worst of feelings). No thanks.
kee
on 11/05/2015 at 2:53 pm
Good on you, Peanut! (lovely name by the way)
So strong…. And so wise (to notice shadiness so quickly)!
I think that’s what this site does for you (at least for me) — opens up one’s eyes to not only what one deserve but who one really is (apologies for the really poor English grammar, but my brain is fried from today’s teaching).
I am no longer going to accept SHADINESS 🙂
estrella
on 11/05/2015 at 6:32 pm
reading and re-reading these posts and comments helps.
Im trying to change my habits. this really is all about habit change I believe.
Going a different way to work, avoiding a certain place I see guy.
Thinking different thoughts than I normally think, focusing on life fulfilling goals rather than on life demeaning habits.
I need something larger than the habit I turned him into.
Im working on it.
thanks for all of your words.
Oona
on 12/05/2015 at 12:26 am
Totally Estelle, trying so many new ways to get you out of the rut until you find things that make you feel genuinely good and sticking with them.
Mary Jane
on 12/05/2015 at 11:18 am
Say Something,
One of the best things you can do for yourself right now is to workout. It is the best medicine you can give yourself on a daily basis. It is my first appointment everyday. You have to take care of yourself.
Woke up yesterday and didn’t feel like working out. I forced myself to go to the gym and then I hit the trails. Felt great.
@Kee- if you can get outside do it. I know you are having a tough time. Please go outside if you can. It will help you think clearly. I was out at a beautiful area that has a lake and it lifts my mood. I saw a beautiful crane. I saw a mama duck protecting new baby chicks. Being out in nature will help alter a bad mood combine that with some movement and you will be amazed!!
Health is so important.
Hugs,
MJ
Disillusioned
on 12/05/2015 at 3:02 pm
An AC I dated literally only a handful of times when he was in one of his off-again time periods from his on-again, off-again ex-girlfriend (who he ultimately married) wanted to become buddy-buddy again (he and his wife were smiling and all-friendly at a mutual friend’s party). I ignored both of them.
Now he and his wife, when they are present at the same mutual friend’s parties, are openly critical of me, in front of everyone, at these events. The wife will smirk at her husband when my kid doesn’t behave. The husband will shake his head at what I say. Mean time, he tries to get in my way, too! He blocks my path when he sees I am on my way to the washroom, or to the kitchen. I wait for him to leave, to avoid him.
I don’t want to care, but I do. I don’t deserve to be treated this way. He was the one who was a jerk to me when we dated.
Why is he, and are they, both so nasty now?
Why is he trying to get in my way?
truthinclarity
on 12/05/2015 at 10:53 pm
Hi Disullusioned,
If I were you, I would have kicked him in the nuts real good. Sometimes you have to hit them where it hurts.
Disillusioned
on 13/05/2015 at 6:04 pm
Funny how the victim keeps getting beaten up–this is the final (and, now, ongoing) insult. It’s not just him who doesn’t want to take responsibility for his actions…it’s also his wife. They both are not being real about things.
Well, however he is acting, he is very nervous about it. He was squeezing his (empty) water bottle, more than a few times, when I entered the main party room.
They are not as tough as they look.
Disillusioned
on 13/05/2015 at 12:34 am
Well, he was doing this (hanging out type of blocking or hovering) out in the open. Why? Snd why so MEAN?
Mistea1
on 13/05/2015 at 1:48 am
Kee, I am so sorry for your pain. My heart cries for you. I hear you very well.
Here are some more suggestions. I got out of a similar contract many years ago for similar reasons. You may need to use the services of your home country and be with family. Perhaps a family member can come and visit you?
Listening to classical music can be very helpful. They are doing studies that show that our genes are positively affected for health and mood. I still listen to Mozart at least a half an hour a day. I just got through listening to Sheherazade by Rimsky-Korsakoff. So beautiful. I encourage your to try this. I feel over the past year it has changed my life.
Mistea1
on 13/05/2015 at 2:00 am
Kee,
The other thing I just learned is that these people are so emotionally stunted that they don’t know how to take responsibility for stopping a relationship. I ended a relationship first part of January. However, he still attempted to make contact. I was polite but still minimally engaged when I was in the vicinity. Somehow I still kept thinking something might happen. (still hoping I guess)
Next Saturday I have one more obligation in which I will probably see him. I will then drop the entire organization and the few friends I have made. I have made arrangements to get involved in another organization (music) that no one knows about. I didn’t know that he would probably keep trying to contact me. Thanks to all here who’ve talked about this.
I need to get stronger and by the time anyone figures it out, hopefully I will be all better!!
Kee, you wil make it through this and be stronger for it. My best wishes to you. Mistea
kee
on 16/05/2015 at 12:49 pm
Hi Mistea1
Wow – you are so spot on about the family thingy and music….
Before reading your comments this week, I had started to listen to classical music and at night I listen to Yogic mantra music. Thank you for the recommendations – I am currently listening to Rimsky-Korsakov 🙂
Also, my parents have become much more involved now that I have gone full NC with him and really trying to get him out of my life. My mother actually came out to Far East last week to visit me.
You are right about not understanding when it is ended – it’s ended. He called it ‘not giving up on your true love’ as I was his so called true love. But in hindsight, many times in our relationship (since 2011) I felt like a rag doll that he would take out and play with when it suited him. When it didn’t then he would throw me (and our relationship) away. But those actions were according to him just mistakes, you know he was not yet fully knowledgeable at 31,32,33 years of age….
I have also been reading a lot of quotes about how to let go. I am still sad and cry many days a week (not every night and day like before) but I have found that it helps to read uplifting quote that assures me that I did the ‘right’ thing in not taking him back for the 3rd time.
I am not familiar with your specific situation but if it is related to mine then you might appreciate this:
~~ Don’t hold on because you think there will be no one else. There will always be someone else.You have got to believe you are worth more than being repeatedly hurt by someone who doesn’t really care….and believe that someone will see what you are really worth and treat you the way you should be treated. ~~
We just need to keep hope….
I am sorry you still have to see him one more time, I plan on not seeing my ex any time at all. At least for the foreseeable few years.
Can someone go with you on Saturday, for moral support that is? (I realise I am replying on the day you are due to see him so sorry for the late reply).
I hope we all get to a better (happier) state soon-ish.
xxx
Peanut
on 13/05/2015 at 3:57 am
Disillusioned,
I’d find different friends or different parties because to me that does not sound like a party at all.
You may be asking, “Why should I have to?” Quite simply, because life is like that sometimes.
Take Care and stop puting yourself around these two.
Disillusioned
on 25/05/2015 at 9:20 pm
Thank you.
Peanut
on 13/05/2015 at 4:05 am
kee,
Your English is fine! I’ve been coming to BR for near three years. It has changed my life and will continue to do so because as long as Nat writes, I will read.
Plus, the principles in which Nat grew BR, are the ones in which I strive to live my life: honesty, mindfulness, & courage.
Michelle
on 13/05/2015 at 3:11 pm
I’ve been thinking recently about this urge to connect with someone we know isn’t fundamentally good for us. Natalie uses the “crumb” analogy, which is really right on.
More and more, I’ve been thinking of my EUM as cotton candy: it looked like fun and tasted good so I kept eating it… but there was no nutrition, just sugar. So no matter how much I ate, I wasn’t going to get what I really needed. I might feel full for a little while and enjoy the taste… but eventually, I just had to go away and make myself a steak, a salad, eat an apple and drink some water.
It’s hard to admit that someone I really liked is just a bunch of fluff but once I started eating “real food” (healthy relationships, stable friendships, etc.), it’s easy to walk past cotton candy. The craving goes away. EUs taste good for awhile but there’s nothing of substance to nourish you or a relationship. That’s my food analogy for EUs.
Selkie
on 13/05/2015 at 6:34 pm
Michelle,
I love your food analogy. It’s so true. When we’re emotionally unhealthy we get caught up and lost in hollow people who have little to offer but a five course meal of crumbs. We starve in all kinds of ways while we think we are being fed.
Mistea1
on 13/05/2015 at 4:24 pm
Peanut,
thank you for your commmon sense wisdom. “Because life is like that sometimes.” Slaps forehead. Of course, you are right. I’m one of those who will analyse things to death only to get myself upset about it. No reason to do this at all. Thanks
Disillusioned
on 25/05/2015 at 9:21 pm
Yes, no more over-analyzing.
Freedom Tastes of Reality
on 13/05/2015 at 7:05 pm
Hi, Veracity!
I really liked your comment, but just had to throw in my two cent’s worth: I’m glad that you distinguished between being nice and being kind in your post, but obviously being nice doesn’t automatically make one a doormat. Being a doormat would equal being *too* nice, bending over-backwards with people-pleasing behavior, etc. It can certainly be a fine line, but I feel that it’s an important distinction to make.
Veracity
on 14/05/2015 at 10:58 am
Hi Freedom…, Point taken! It’s my own personal issue with being *nice*. I was too nice and allowed people to walk all over me. Now when someone tells me I’m nice, I cringe a little inwardly! That’s probably why kind strikes me as more boundaried than nice, because it is for me.
Thanks for the feedback!
Confused
on 13/05/2015 at 8:27 pm
Hi everyone,
Just started reading some of the posts trying to make some kind of sense of the situation I am in and get some answers. I an in a long term relationship which I am not happy in at all, been together for 7 years and there is no passion, we live like flatmates, have done for a long time now and it is just getting too much for me. My partner is not a bad person but just does not seem to want any kind of relationship like that at all, I have come close to walking before (the last time being the day after our engagement party when I ended up hysterically crying after he refused to hold my hand during it because he found it embarrassing), but stayed when the crying and promises to change etc happened.
We have been looking after a young family member of his for the last few years as well which has been unbelievably stressful, I am now on the verge of a stomach ulcer now through anxiety and stress and taking medication everyday for it. We have no kids but a dog who I adore and (god help me) is, if I’m absolutely honest, probably the only reason I’m still here. How can I leave my little dog, he wouldn’t have a clue why?? I couldn’t take him because if I leave I have no idea where I’m going to go, it’s his house and I have no family to go to so I’m starting again from scratch. God I’m about to start crying now…
Anyway, recently my partner has been spending more and more time out of the house, taken up a hobby which takes up a lot of his time. I briefly suspected there could be someone else, I don’t really think so but he obviously cannot take the toxic atmosphere between us either. I am too exhausted to hide it anymore, he doesn’t deserve the way I’m being either but it’s too much. Where do I start to tell him? This is ripping my heart to pieces and I just don’t know how much more I can take, any advice would be appreciated.
kee
on 16/05/2015 at 1:16 pm
Hi Confused
It’s always hard to give advice to someone else without being fully in that person’s shoes or even have full knowledge of the relationship.
I can only go from my own experience, which was slightly different from yours, but I had to follow my gut. There is only so much you can accept when it comes to words, if there is no change in action then there is no point. But I have to say I also did try and gave second chances, although we never went to counselling because he didn’t believe in talking to outsiders about his problems/ our problems. Instead I believed him when he said he had ‘had time’ to think about things and wants to make it work. Just like you I had invested many years in my relationship and I didn’t feel like I should just give up. But in the end, it became too much for me.
My mum said to me just this week, no matter how difficult a relationship gets if either party stops communication, or shuts down and then makes an active decision that they want to leave (and actually in my case he did leave twice) then they have thrown the first brick to shatter the house (relationship) that you have built together. It is very difficult to re-build something that has been shattered…..
In terms practical advice – I started from scratch too. I mean I have family, but I have always been an independent person. I left my birth country when I was 19,where my parents still live, and since then I have lived in 3 different countries (and continents). However, the country that I had settled down with my ex-husband, I left following our divorce (marital home sold + money spent travelling around world) and came to Far East to a country I did not speak the language/know the culture. I simply came for work purposes and to get away from the toxic back and forth relationship.
I am re-building myself, changing career, studying for my MA, getting work experience teaching and trying to not cry every day for the way my life have turned out. It is VERY HARD but it isn’t IMPOSSIBLE. Back in 2013, following the final decision to divorce, it took me a couple of months to figure out how to move on and what to do with my life. I spent time alone researching and thinking and at the time this move was the best solution I could come up.
If you follow your gut then you will come to the right decision. Remember just because a decision is hard to follow through doesn’t mean it isn’t the right one.
All the best
Kiana
Justdiscovering
on 13/05/2015 at 11:12 pm
Hi confused
I was in a marriage just like this .. It is soul destroying and in my case no amount of relationship counsellling made the slightest difference. I had to get out after 14 YEARs of trying on my part. He just checked out of the relationship one day and refused any discussion. Your “partner” sounds the same.
However hard it is please get out and build your own life! All the best
Freedom Tastes of Reality
on 14/05/2015 at 3:04 am
Confused, rent a pet-friendly apartment and take the dog with you. It’s true that they’re harder to come by than the other kind, but they do exist. I have two cats and I’ve had them for four years. My last serious ex-boyfriend kept telling me to get rid of them (this wasn’t the reason for the break-up, which would take too much time to explain in one comment) but I still have my critters and he is long gone from my life.
truthinclarity
on 14/05/2015 at 3:40 am
Hi Confused,
I definitely understand your sentiments about the dog, I couldn’t leave it behind either. But don’t you have any friends or acquaintance? Sometimes people baffle me by their generosity, you never me. Maybe you check in with social services from your town and see if you could find a temporary place. I don’t know if my advise is useful or not, but my heart goes out to you. I will keep you in my prayers tonight.
Teachable
on 17/05/2015 at 12:03 am
I went on a first date last week. Noticed that although a good match on paper, guy seems to possibly think he’s in the running for casual sex (two polite kisses on date supposed to be cheek peck he forced to lip to lip ~ amazing as first was a debarcle due to him doing this ~ very poor form he pulled same move second time). Also, sent me a 2 line email (internet dating) calling me “chocolate eyes”. Truth is, I’m out of his league but internet dating seems to have given him false bravado. I do not care for this man & have not responded to chocolate eyes BS. My profile says, explicitly, I’m not interested in casual sex. Yuk. This guy has put me off.
Another guy, a touring musician, said he’d take me out to dinner a certain evening. Had my number & was supposed to call to arrange. Time came. No news. Days later he wanted me to travel across town to still spend time with him. How unfortunate for him. I declined!
Another internet dude (didn’t meet this one) thought it was bad I’m a psych major. Why, I asked? Because it meant I could ‘work guys out’ he replied. Damned straight. Needless to say he too was stopped dead in his tracks, again despite possible good match on paper.
I’ve been off ciggs four months now (can I get a yay teach?) & am finally dating after a four year break. So far so good. It will take a very special.person to get me to interrupt my routine for dating & I know EXACTLY what I’m looking for. No hurry here. If he doesn’t come along I’m busy with my own goals anyway.
Thinking of you all. T 🙂
Whatever
on 19/05/2015 at 8:16 pm
Yeah Teach!
I am in similar situation, taking it slow with this online stuff. Online guys are frustrating, but I guess I’m frustrating them as well. Last guy who contacted me said goodbye because we couldn’t make a conversation happen within a couple weeks, says he wants someone whose schedule works with his.
Too bad I said, becasue I have a lot of availability, he just caught me in a busy week (not the norm). However, I told him I’m glad it happened becasue I am looking for the right guy and he can’t be it since he is giving up on our connection so quickly. I can’t stand this ‘next’ mentality, it really gives online dating a bad name. I know we need to do that too, and truth be told, I am not ready to jump at any situation. This guy told me he’s a widow and I asked when did your wife die, he replied, 2 weeks ago! OMG, the body is still warm!
I asked him about this and he said that that they were just living together, but not really partners and he stayed with her until she passed away. But still, 2 weeks later he’s trolling online. I didn’t feel right about this guy anyways, so I’m sure it’s a blessing in disguise that he ended the connection.
teachable
on 22/05/2015 at 11:48 am
Definately a blessing for you there Whatever. Sounds creepy! Best of luck with it all and remember, hopeful and optimistic but guard UP! 🙂
Brenda
on 17/05/2015 at 3:27 am
How did you know I used to do that?
“They think that you care so much that it will give you rose tinted glasses and a fur coat of denial.”
Just know your talking about what I was doing, Nat broke into my home or something, and was spying one me everyone! : )
Brenda
on 17/05/2015 at 3:34 am
Think I cared to the point of crucifixion – and died then woke up and said what about me though?
I’ve been a 1/4 of something for so long even I am curious to know what else I have to offer? Even if it is totally messed up or something there has to be more of me than one fourth that is interesting to get to know, God I don’t care anymore if I DO discover the rest is messed up.
Mistea1
on 21/05/2015 at 2:28 am
Hi Kee,
I’m so glad you took my advice before I even gave it!!
I canceled the Satuday event. I feel so irresponsible canceling my obligations like that. It makes me feel so flighty. They had plenty of help though. I can’t tell anyone why because it’s someone they already know and respect. I’m sure they don’t know how he treats certain people as it’s only ones he gets emotional about. I just didn’t know about this narcissistic thing. Thanks for your support.
JustWatchMe
on 29/07/2015 at 12:23 pm
OMG!!!..Natalie has done really a good job and all the ladies here are wonderful!!!
Ok, I have been wanting to dunmp my excess baggage here since sooo long now. I dont know if any one will want to look at it…but i am doing it anyway.
Let me start with me…I am a happy loner since forever. I always had this idea of ‘ men are pigs, dont bother’ thing. I think it started in my childhood when I got abused by more than one family member. Well, now I am happily married with 2 kids :). I refuse to sob over my past ( but I think I unconsciously did).
What happened last year: My husband gave away all our savings of 10 years to his dad wanting the badge of ‘amazing son’…yeah, I generally dont get pissed but I had to this time. Also because he has a chronic illness and we are unsure of how long he will be strong enough to earn. I got insecure on OUR future, our kids future. He said “its ok, its gonna come back to us after dad”…really?…I got messed up, used happy pills left right and center, but this thing grew like a plague inside me. I had no besties at any point in my life…I helped people and they loved me, that’s all. I needed someone to listen to me and say its ok…I could not say it to my family as it will only make them sad..I needed someone else.
The Assclown entry:
One of my school mates found me on FB and added me friends group. I chatted when I could and there was this guy who always got my humor and the comments I made, we began chatting separately, at this point I was not talking to my husband, he never knew (not that I would reveal it even now). I started to feel that I got a bestie, felt so happy that i got some help, I told him all about my childhood, my college stuff, and a lil bit about my husband. But I NEVER insulted or talked bad about my husband to him and NEVER had any intentions to sleep with him (also that we are across the globe)NEVER. But he kept on flirting(he is married), I kept on denying and checking on his flirts, told him straight that I was not here for an affair. He got pissed but didnt stop, actually, I trusted him more that he deserved. He sent me songs and i cried coz I was in pain, this lasted for 2 months.Suddenly one day he said ” I love you”…I was like wtf. But I got attached to him!, he was not like my husband but pretty close he came!!!…I said I was not expecting for us to be like this. He did take no for an answer it but…(boy did he?)
The Flip
One day suddenly he decides to flip , just like that. What ever I do is “not that cool”…what ever I show is ” I dint like it that much”….and then comes ” you took me the wrong way, I was not interested in you either”….yeah BS, I know. I tried for a month to make him feel better because now I was feeling guilty of hurting him!…He was emotionally unavailable. The flip was amazing, from “you are the best person I know”, ” you are cute, wait, I already told you!” ” you are hot and your voice is sexy”…to “hm”.
Then came the ignoring saga, he ignored sooo many of my messages, even the ones when I asked some help from him. I still didnt grow brains…I spent 400 effing $..yup $400!!!!! for his birthday gift. He spoke to me well when I was buying gifts and then after they reached him…he shut me down. Assclownery at its best.
The End:
I said to myself ” you gotta be fuck1ng kidding me”. I wrote a kinda bad message on his birthday, stopped texting and cut him outta FB. I cant believe I fell for this $hit. I lost emotions,trust and money. Its been 3 weeks of NC and hopefully will last forever. He dint come back, if at all he comes back, I will try flush him. I must because it will be only for more gifts or for an ego stroke FOR SURE.
I believe that I am a strong lady but sometimes idiocracy takes over us… I am saying to myself ” you are ok, dont do it again”. Hopefully, he will come back and I get a chance to hurt him. If he dosnt, its so fine too…I dont care. I do think about him but not like a fool, I grew brains now.
OMG…I lost 120 kgs just now…
JustWatchMe
on 29/07/2015 at 5:00 pm
Well, also the thing is its been 2 weeks of NC now..as much as I never choose being in this sort of confusion, that too for a person who could just switch from ‘so caring’ to ‘so dont give a f’…I get reminded of the days when he was the only one listening and reciprocating with me, taking time off and giving me the support I needed…unfortunately my husband was giving me cold shoulder then (its like if not one the other…aggh)
The pain and me paying off in his gifts does outweigh his time (if I can say so, please mind I am not counting money here)….but I am not able to get out of ” well, he was once so kind to me” thought….
I really dont want to have someone who confuses me to this levels and messes my brains up as to what the eff am I in…I mean who would?
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Outdone yourself again, Nat. This is an incredible companion piece to recovery from codependency.
Note to self: my dad, and all those like him, are not the end-all, be-alls of the universe. They are little self-isolated men puttering around with the opinion that they know everything and deserve everything. I don’t have to live in deference to them. I can tell myself every day that they are mistaken, and they don’t, in fact, deserve ANYTHING that they don’t earn.
No Kiddin. So spot on. I can hardly stand it but I need to hear it. \
T
I hope you don’t mind me copying your note to self as my daily mantra, Tangerine. Brilliant.
I so needed this. I was recently told “I was perfect” only to be stood up and told I was perfect again. Then another guy who chose to be with someone else took it upon himself to text me “you’re good a woman. I hope you get what you want” 2 years since I saw him. The message is clear stop engaging.
Sophia, if a that “You are perfect” guy is someone whom you’ve recently met, then it’s a clear sign too. Any superlative and especially a flow of super superlatives from a someone whom you don’t know is form of manipulation. They don’t know you enough to make such a statement. They don’t have enough information to make such a claim and are messing with your head.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Awesome timing to come home and read this. So validating!
Just stepped back from an unhealthy situation none too soon. The flags were there at the beginning and I made my usual mistake of not trusting my gut and giving the benefit of the doubt to someone who had not earned my trust when it should have come to me first!
Now I need to put this all in practice next time and STICK TO IT!! lol
Brilliant Natalie! I started off reading this thinking about how my mother and son pull this crap on me, then had to reread it in the context of my love relationships and realised just how much power I give them to play these games with me. I’ve stupidly believed giving love and devotion by the bucket load no matter what, would make them value me more, when experience has shown me they value me less. I’ve been learning to stand up for myself more, but I clearly need to lower my tolerance to this kind of BS. The good ones do actually feel bad when you call them out, and try to make it up to you. The bad ones just blame you further to desperately try and reclaim their ‘power’ over you. I need to reread this post frequently!
This said so much to me that I have never heard. You seem to understand exactly where I am at like no one else has (not even my therapist). I especially feel that you have said, maybe what my family has been saying for a while, however, you put it in a way I can totally “GET” “When you’re caring to that level where they have the power to make or break you, this sense of caring about them is a mirror that’s showing you that you’re not caring enough about you.” I have been broken over and over again in the past year and this will help me to regain my dignity so THANK YOU!
Natalie,
There really are good reasons to get rid of assclown relationships from your life.
After more than 20 years, I recently ran into on Facebook a former friend from high school. We used to connect romantically every 10 years for short spell. At 18, 28 and 38 years of age we got together for a few days, weeks or months. By age 38 she had become a successful physician, but she had also developed a serious drinking problem that drove us apart for more than 20 years.
In catching up with her over the last few months, I learned she’d retired a few years ago from medicine due to health problems (caused partly by all that drinking). Her liver problems, fibromyalgia, and a few other diseases that required daily meds made drinking even a thimble of wine potentially fatal for her. I was relieved to hear it. I’m a very light drinker, so I can take it or leave it.
I suspect she’s been to rehab or AA because she certainly thinks and talks as if the 12 steps are familiar to her. I went to al anon meetings for 10+ years and I am fluent in 12 step-ese.
After the hell I went through with that conniving, married she-devil last year, it’s been so refreshing to have normal, drama free conversations, and when a snag comes along we both own our parts, don’t try to blame the other and really listen hard to each other and try to muddle through and articulate our feelings.
For instance she forgot my burthday last week and it was daunting to figure out how to tell her how hurt I felt. But I tried just telling her how hurt I felt, and she was very apologetic and good at helping me get through it, and over it.
The point is, whatever this is or may become allows us both the time and space we need; we don’t feel obligated to sacrifice anything to spend time together, and we are affectionate and loving in words and deeds.
The other day I told her that I tended to be too generous with my time and little gifts, snail mail cards, poems, drawings, and just too much romantic stuff all at one time, and it used to always leave me feeling like I did all the giving and left the other woman feeling like she couldn’t ever catch up or match my displays of affection.
I noticed she mentioned she was feeling a little panicky about catching up, so I told her I had spotted the tendencies I described above and not to worry because I knew it was my stuff to clean up. She knows I’ve been on a journey to find and keep good self esteem, and since she’s my first one to practice it on, I warned her there may be a few dips in the road. She said she was fine with that–she’d take that risk.
So, I told her I would ease up on all the schmaltz, and that we needn’t feel obligated to talk on the phone for three hours at a time, or even every day. I said let’s start from scratch and erase the tote board. She sounded relieved, but the best part was when she said, “Thank you for taking care of your end of things, and I promise to try my best to do the same. You make it very easy to work through our s*it together.”
It was better than a dozen roses.
Loving and/or liking someone is not painful. Pain is painful.
There is an old Buddhist slogan that says something like: “When you meet someone who makes your heart pound, your palms sweat and you tingle all over, that’s not love. Love is when you meet the person who makes you feel calm, peaceful and joyful inside.”
As I said, I have no idea where this is headed, but that’s fine. That’s because the present feels great and it seems perfect for right now. No drama, just lots of humor, intellectual and artistic stimulation. And some really nice flirting.
Wait, if she’s conniving and married, why does it matter if she forgot your birthday, to the point that you must tell her that you are hurt?
Do you want this person in your life or out of it?
Thank you! I am realizing I look around for someone to make me feel “chosen”. My dad choose my mom and sister over me, leaving me feeling abandoned and alone. I long to feel special and chosen– and I will put up with bad behavior in hopes to finally be the one to be chosen. In fact, I find myself in love triangles quite often — replaying the triangle of me/Dad/and mom, or me/Dad/sister, and I’m usually not the one chosen.
That’s me too, Heather. I realised it a few years ago… I’ve constantly recreated situations where I’m the ‘other’ woman, like I was with Dad. However, I realised more recently that Dad didn’t love my sister either – he used her to make himself feel god-like. She was his little adorer. She died in 2010. Mum died in 1997. I’m still standing… As long as we can keep looking within, healing old hurts, feeling our feelings… We’re the strong ones, Heather, and we don’t need Daddy’s approval anymore. xx
Thanks for this article, Natalie. Very timely and affirming of behaviours I’m slowly letting go…
Heather, you ARE special. Look in the mirror and tell yourself just that. I’ve begun a practice of looking in the mirror, saying my name and telling myself ‘I love you.’ It begins with us choosing ourselves. <3
Spot on! Currently in the aftermath of realizing yet another has seen fit to go fishing before dispensing of his current Girlfriend, namely me! Confronted him with the facts and haven’t heard from him in 3 days. Giving the benefit of the doubt is fine, but never throw caution to the wind, I say. The disappearing act is always a pathetic excuse for not facing up to their own actions.
Good luck to the woman he’s currently smoozing, it will be short lived, like his ability to hold any woman to his self centered demands, whilst not giving anything in return.
“The good ones do actually feel bad when you call them out, and try to make it up to you. The bad ones just blame you further to desperately try and reclaim their ‘power’ over you” indeed crazybaby, tolerance level lowered again!
Wow this resonated with me. I wear myself out doing for husband, kids and mother just win approval I seem to never get. I keep hoping that one day a few of them will wake up and realize how they have been acting but I am realizing now I have to do this myself. Thanks for the post and the permission to put me first.
Powerful tools indeed. We work so hard to please. We beat ourselves up for not getting it right or not doing enough. In the end we settle for the emotional crumbs, hug, sex a moment of nice. Yes, we men are raised to “fix” things broken and if it ain’t fixed we up the ante. It’s part of being a man. So, our deal is that in our quest to do what the world expects of us, to lead, we sometimes neglect ourselves to take care of them, her, our work. So, thank you for posting.
Right now, I find myself dealing with someone who is not on the up and up (my gut is screaming at me) and behaving in a way that is hurtful and disrespectful to me. I am told they are innocent mistakes and to quit looking for things to be wrong and to just trust them. I end up debating why I find them wrong and then am told that they are sorry they caused these insecurities in me. It still feels like they are not accepting any blame or responsibility for their own actions and are trying to spin it as me over reacting. I don’t believe I am. So, I find myself debating again and trying to explain why such and such is hurtful and confusing. They will not address the specific ‘thing’ but keep saying that they made an innocent mistake and won’t acknowledge the damage its done. I am feeling myself go down a familiar bad road of being the woman who talks too much and over explaining the basics of how humans should treat each other, especially if they claim to care.
Selkie, damn it is so strange to read this from you 🙂 You are such a badass and give such amazing advice here on BR. But I understand we’re all human.
It’s hard to say much without knowing the context of this relationship you describe. But what you wrote sounds a bit disturbing and too familiar…I am now at a point where “I am sorry you feel this way” or “I am sorry this (aka the thing that THEY did) made you feel insecure” or whatever other variation of this is a red flag to me. Ok, one strike – I give this person the benefit of a doubt. Second strike – they are out.
I KNOW I am at a place where I am sensitive and anxious now. I know that I listen attentively, sometimes TOO attentively to signs and words and actions. But within my history and my psych state right now I say that this is a mind f*ck. Relaying the blame and not really apologizing. They are apologizing to you for YOU. We can only apologize for US and our actions. So what is this now? You’re feeling hurt and now you get a mini guilt trip aka this apology?
I’d be really watching what this person does in the future and how it makes you feel.
I’ve also tended to give everybody a benefit of a doubt once. Now I think I shouldn’t, at least in romantic relationships. Firstly, as Nat wrote, why would I give anybody an opportunity to reject me again, and secondly, almost by rule those who stood me up once also stood me up second time. So, I’ve developed a very low tolerance.
Yes exactly know how this feels – explaining what common decency is and basic foundations of love. Is it our job to parent these fully functional adult beings? Please, they know well enough. They just play dumb so they can get away with it and let us think we’re teaching them something while they escape the real consequences of their actions. Eventually though you will realise you have already addressed an issue they keep selfishly repeating and it will dawn on you that the only one who needed anything explained, was yourself about the wool being pulled over your eyes. Save yourself the time and the humiliation. Listen to your gut. Don’t tolerate bad treatment right from the start, life is too short.
Selkie
Listen to your gut, it doesn’t lie to you.
Nat’s post on ‘one shot, keep it simple’ is something I have taken to heart.
If someone tries to blame you for their actions, lies to you, says they will do something and then don’t, stands you up when you have made arrangements to meet etc etc, take it as read they will do it again and again even though they promise they won’t.
I have saved myself countless hours of frustration trying to deal with people who are incapable of being honest, ie, they talk the talk but can’t walk that talk.
One shot, that’s all they get. I just smile and say no thanks to any further plans they try to make.
It’s just people pleasing and looking for validation etc to continue with someone who treats you without care, trust and respect. It’s quite soul destroying to continue loving someone who will never feel the same about you no matter what you do or say. You end up being used and abused and lose yourself.
Wish to God I had known Nat Lue and BR when I met the AC, this post is the story of my relationship with that man.
So glad I finally woke up.
Thank you all for the replies. I had an unsettling week which has left me not thinking quite clearly. I had surgery last week and now have family visiting from out of state. This issue I mentioned above is with the man I was dating that I mentioned a few posts ago who I innocently stumbled upon his recently viewed ex wives porn pics while were trying to watch a movie on netflix. He pleaded and begged, said it was a huge misunderstanding, he was trying to delete them, couldn’t get them to delete, yada yada yada. Anyway, I actually felt bad for him and gave him the benefit of the doubt, sorta, I still doubted, but I gave him a chance to prove himself like he was pleading for. Suck it and see, Ladies, Suck it and see. A few nights ago at my house his phone keeps ringing, same number, he keeps hanging it up. He finally answeres it after three calls in 5 minutes. It’s a woman, ( he says his neighbor is drunk calling him ) he tells her he cant talk ( he is also acting nervous as hell and stuttering by this point, my mother witnessed it ) because he is at a “friends” house, as he is rubbing my feet and telling me how much he loves. Loves me…..yet I am just a friend when a woman calls him. He proved himself enough for me right then and there. Done. Really. Suck it and see. Pauline…thank you for the reminder on Nat’s post about one shot. I need to read it again. I am still leap years away and better on the self care from several years ago, but still it hurts to be treated like this.
Done. Really done this time.
Wow. I just got a long email from him. After all his telling me I’m blowing things out of proportion, I am making him out to be a bad guy, he had nothing to do with this woman who called, she is just a neighbor, his slip calling me his friend was innocent, I was mistrusting fo him and he didn’t deserve it, that it was my insecurities, he is so honest, he loves me, he would never hurt me, etc, etc…..he reveals after 5 freaking days of this bullshit ( and me NOT falling for any of it, I have not given in this time )he rejected her before he met me, she now stalks him, he is afraid of her. Yet I heard him tell her he would talk to her later that weekend after he told he I was a friend of his. Lies. and more lies. all of it. He previously lied all about her and tried to make me think I was throwing hollow accusations, over reacting, being mean and jealous, and that I was wrong and didn’t see what I saw and hear what I heard. I still think he is lying and this whole stalker thing is a lie too. He’s most likely screwing her. I anguished over this all week while feeling like shit after surgery and doubting my own gut when it was screaming so loud I was sick. How can these men do this?
I cannot describe the sickness I feel inside me right now. My gut was so exactly on, spot on, and I let myself get dragged down in this man’s crazy drama. Although I feel sick inside…..knowing my gut was spot on makes me see how I CAN trust myself. I can! The lesson in all of this that I am seeing like a bright bright light is that I have to listen to myself, my own voice, and not waver. Knowing I was able to see the truth, actually see through him and know at a deep level he was no good, makes me want to stand an rejoice at the power I HAVE. I didn’t trust myself right away, but what a powerful lesson for me to trust myself in the future. Sorry to ramble. I have had another epiphany and have turned a corner in my own growth. Too bad I had to get my feelings hurt to see it, but I will survive. I always do.
Selkie,
Leave this man alone! He is at a minimum dishonest. Your scernario reminds me of the ex-EUM. Sad to say, I was like the girl who was calling your guy and yes he was seeing me and sleeping with me. That’s why I was angry. He was lying to the woman he was seeing and probably telling her I was crazy and a stalker, but he forgot to tell her he was calling me and seeing me too.
Everytime you see this man after he pulls this stuff he believes he has pulled one over on you! Let him go a deal with someone else. I will bet you a million bucks when you stop talking to him, he is going to start dating her!
I have not seen him since but did vacillate back and forth with myself after each text or email from him telling me I was looking for things that weren’t there. It made me doubt my own perception, but I came back to my gut each time. I have responded to a few of his texts but have not contacted him. Thank you for sharing your story with me. I believe you are right about him, and it is what I knew in my heart along. He is still at it, texting ilove yous, but I have not responded since the “I didn’t lie but I lied” email.
Selkie,
“The lesson in all of this that I am seeing like a bright bright light is that I have to listen to myself, my own voice, and not waver. Knowing I was able to see the truth, actually see through him and know at a deep level he was no good, makes me want to stand an rejoice at the power I HAVE. I didn’t trust myself right away, but what a powerful lesson
for me to trust myself in the future.”
The future is now. For all you know, you saw her the night of netflix gone awry. Keep listening to YOURSELF.
Block him!
He is blocked, I did that pretty early after the incident. Now I get overnighted letters and cards in the mail.
Trying to wear you down. Good job staying firm. The fact that he is not respecting your boundaries is very revealing. Hope you’re feeling better from your surgery.
People can do this because they aren’t taking responsibility for what they are doing – they are putting their responsibility on others all the time – which is why you must take responsibility for yourself and your needs in order to stop attracting them – too many chances being given here Selkie but we’ve all been there don’t beat yourself up – at least you are seeing them! – now you get to act on it and move on.
Selkie
You CAN trust yourself and that’s something no one will ever take away from you.
ALWAYS pay attention to your gut or instincts when something seems off because it will be.
If experience has taught me anything it is to listen to my gut or inner voice when I don’t feel comfortable with something being said or done. If I ignore my gut or try to rationalise the situation it comes back to bite me – every time.
Remember people unfold and we don’t know who they are when we first meet them. It takes time to find out what sort of person they are, if they are honest and genuine in their dealings with us and others. This isn’t something that can be bypassed and the fast forwarders and future fakers rely on us being swept off our feet by their level of attention, which as we know, is hiding who they really are, the assclown’s, EUM’s and the rest of the slippery creeps who always have a few girls on the go.
You’ve learned a very valuable lesson from this guy, you have your own back and you can trust yourself. The rest will start to fall into place a lot more easily.
So, so True! Even if I don’t understand why my gut is telling me something’s off, I go with it now.
When you are unsure, say no.
I recently read that when we have under developed boundaries and are unsure about whether to say yes or no to something, we say yes. We should be saying no.
Doubt means don’t.
wow Veracity and Pauline! Such strong statements!
I know I listened to my gut this year, I didn’t really know ‘why’ my mind kept saying no to my ex-EUM husband asking me back even though my heart was literally breaking into pieces as I was telling him this and crying on the phone to him (I was following something internally that had been so hurt in my subconscious that it was just putting up) red alert ‘say no’ signals in my mind all the time.
The best statement ever: DOUBT means Don’t! Love it :O) Thank you!
Selkie, that is their go-to: “This woman is talking me!” – for proof of this “Why Does He Do That?” by Lundy Bancroft. It’s a cop-out. If this woman is in communication with him and he’s only now explaining himself (because you’ve had enough) it’s because he LIKES having unclear communication with you and all other women, because it suits him.
This man is at the very least exaggerating. He is also trying to triangulate you with this woman by suggesting that he is so in demand as a hunky man that women go CRAZY for him. Unlikely. He’s basically saying that he’s so gotdamn attractive in every way that women can’t help themselves (he’ll be saying the same thing about you unless you go No Contact with this fool). He encourages these women to contact him, guaranteed. If you want to understand more about the manipulation technique called triangulation, I suggest Googling it. It’s much less likely to work on you again. Good luck!
I am total NC and have blocked him after getting many page long texts telling me I am to blame for all of this, it has noting to do with any of his actions, and that I am being so mean to him, that this is a result of my insecurities. He isn’t even making sense at this point and the way he is trying to spin this as him being the victim is outrageous. I’m not sure about the triangulation, but I really don’t care at this point. I am actually a little worried he might be a bit crazy. Before I blocked him, he threatened to show up at my house if I continue to ignore him. My Mother is staying with me right now to help me after I had my surgery so I feel safe for the moment. So quickly things can change.
Selkie,
Hope you’re feeling well. No chairs were broken this time. So what next? How are you going to interact with him moving forward?
Hi Say Something. I am feeling better, thank you. I am not interacting with him, and just want this chapter to be closed.
Selkie,
I recently read the books the Verbally Abusive Relationship and In Sheeps Clothing. One was about verbal abuse and the other was about manipulation. A lot of the things you posted so far were similar to examples in those books. I think you’re perfectly right to go NC. This guy sounds as best a manipulative liar and worst crazy.
Selkie if they aren’t validating your spoken needs – whether they agree with you or not is bad enough but for them to actually give – unsolicited by you! – THEIR thoughts/projections on your reasons for your needs when they clearly don’t live in your head IS disrespectful and a mind game in order to shift the blame/guilt/shame, in order to – as you guessed it – take NO RESPONSIBILITY for their behaviour. Ignore and play the people pleaser with them at YOUR peril.
Be clear with them – its just their opinion – they don’t live in your shoes – repeat this and nothing else – and stop any explaining no matter what provocation from them to do so. They already know exactly what you are saying – they allow you to explain further in order to get future ammunition to smash any needs of yours completely/distract you entirely AWAY from your needs – they are not listening to genuinely understand and support YOU.
And by the way – who are you to be teaching them anything? – are you being paid for this excursion into education?!? You should not need to force teach someone who cares – anything – they either see and are keen to learn about you on their own or you withdraw from them and they find out themselves if they care/ not if they don’t care.
Selkie I feel you are describing a complete time waster – ever had the feeling you are on hold until you resolve this? – apply all the things they have made you feel – to them NOT yourself – and please move on.
Pauline and Oona,
Spot on, both of you. There were some amber flags that deserved a little more time to unfold, but the future faking was a red flag I KNEW was not healthy. I did know this, it registered in my head, but I admit I needed to see around the corner a little bit more before I truly acted on it. I had this fear that I might be wrong, that he might really be someone who saw me as that special one and that little dream was hard to let go of. I am taking responsibility for myself, and aside from maybe faultering a bit longer than I needed to, I feel proud of myself for doing the right thing without losing my head or footing. I did take action. He is out of the picture. I am actually feeling quite relieved to be done with him.
Elgie, if you are reading any of this. You were right.
Relating this to my mother. She wants me to go to Michigan to visit this summer. Each time I consider this I feel like I already know how it’s going to go and I feel once again “why am I going to spend all this time and money to be ridiculed and audience in her passive aggressive behavior. to listen to her berate every one I love and praise the grandson who does nothing but steal, lie and spend most of his time in prison. It’s just unreal. Then I feel that she was a good mother much of the time and no one is perfect and maybe I need to have some mercy. Then I end up back at square one! Ugh!
I have been there also, repeatedly – I now use ‘how do they make me feel the last time I saw them/were in that situation with them?’ as the litmus test for, can I trust or commit to them this time, question? Rather than some fantasy dream-scape from childhood about my childhood – which are possibly fantasy or selective at best, depending what mood/anxiety I was feeling/am in.
Hey Natalie,
Again you have completely changed my life and I want you to know that re-building my self-esteem or even recognizing the fact it was nowhere where it needed to be has everything to do with you. I would love to read from you or get advice on dating as a single parent and the hardships that i’ve been experiencing with that not knowing or understanding my role and how to digest the fact I might have to move on with someone one day and my child might have a step father.
the more I gave the less he valued me, so I ended things only to fall for his running hot. A few days ago I gave him the no contact rule and when I didn’t answer his calls and texts, he showed up and proposed. I said no, but talked it out with him. I feel sure he is future faking to win me back, and even if he did go through with it, I would still be in a one way relationship but just married. Please help me not second guess myself. perhaps you need some details to help. Started hot, then downgraded me to booty call when he revealed he wasn’t over the ex. Did booty call for a while until he did some boundary busting that I could not look past. He then talked me into taking him back and said he would be a bf because he really wanted me. I kept saying prove it, but he never did. When he refused to talk about the relationship I ended it again but said I’d continue to date him until after his b day (50) because we had tickets to Vegas. So he had a month or so to step up his game and he did go to couple counseling with me, but never did the homework. So now his b day is over and I said no contact, and he continually tried to contact me. he keeps saying he has improved, and that is true, but not nearly enough. And he engaged in the same type of boundary busting behavior in Vegas that he did before (sexually did something that he said he would not). So he proposes with no ring and actually I think he would do it due to the shock of turning 50 and the fact his family is bugging him about it and they like me. But I feel I’d be stuck in a marriage where I cooked, cleaned and waited on him and he would devalue me again because that’s what he does when he “has” me. I feel like his cries of I love you are just a way of trying to get me to stay and sort of an “I don’t want to lose my toy” kind of thing. Am I crazy to turn this down? is it possible that he would actually continue counseling and get better? I should add that his mother still cleans his house and does his laundry and that he has never been married. So I’d just be taking over mommy duties because he acts helpless. Even the sex is selfish, despite it’s being good. Can a truly selfish person actually ever think of others?
Monica,
Trust your instincts with this guy. My jaw dropped when you said he was 50, from his behaviour I was expecting about 22 (or 12).
What you write reminds me of an ex I had, in pretty much every way. We went to counselling also and he not only didn’t do the homework, he purposely did the opposite of what the counsellor directed him to. It was the ex’s way of passive-aggressively getting his way while pretending to make an effort to work on our relationship.
He was also a mama’s boy, dependent and fake-helpless when it suited him. Laziest person I ever met. Mommy even paid his rent for awhile even though he had a full-time job! He was 10 years older than I was and his family too was wondering why he had never been married at his age. Of course then he started to talk about marriage, but he was far too lazy to actually make any effort in that regard. Kind of like yours, not even buying a ring.
When I think of him, the only regret I have is not dumping him sooner. Your instincts are good. Trust yourself!
sounds like my current bf. only he gave me a ring after he proposed but I ended up giving it back because he was such a mean narcissist asshole. lol We are still together but barely and he even tried proposing to me again without the ring and then waffled out of the wedding and now acts like I am the bad person. Would you believe he is 61 and I am 53. I am seriously about to give up on men. I am beginning to think they are all just about useless . My bf is a player big time and he goes around telling every woman he meets he loves them like its just a regular every day thing. I think he believes in the old saying “Baby I think I love you, lie down I know I do. Right. He is definitely a Future Faker among other things such as being an open person who will have sex with anyone and will do anything and everything.
Crystal,
I totally agree with you. Monica shall trust her instincts and her logic and not fall again for this guy.
I faced almost the same case in my personal life. An ex-boyfriend of 7 years, almost two years after breakup begs yet for another chance, but not doing any action showing that he has changed. He is almost 50 yrs old, never married, a mama’s boy (even if he claims otherwise) and when we had a relationship he kept seeing his ex (a married woman of course). I was always suspicious of him (he lways denied) but after the breakup I just stopped making excuses for his behaviour and I confronted him about her and he admitted everything. He was not respecting me when we were together and he keeps disrespecting me right now because he tries to make contact even if I have told him it is over and I don’t respond in any way.
I really don’t believe that he has changed or thta he will in the future and I am not going to wait to see. He has lost his control over me and he feels unworthy and this is the reason why he asks for yet another chance. I don’t intend to give him another minute in my life. The only problem is that I am still angry because of the way that he treated (cheating, disrespect, a lot of disappearing acts, passive-aggressive and so on) but I am on No Contact and I cannot direct my anger to him. But I have started caring about me more and my boundaries are now clear and cannot be busted by him. He is now totally predictable and piteous.
Monice, you KNOW the answers. They are RIGHT THERE in the comment you wrote. You just want to suspend your judgement and do not hear yourself. This is too much about him. What he says, what he does, then what he does not.
You say “he has improved, and that is true, but not nearly enough”. He is not even nearly enough for you.
Also, it seems like right now you’re bargaining with yourself and mistrust your own judgement: can you trust yourself that you had a reason to go NC with this man? That it was not just a volatile decision. TRUST YOURSELF. LISTEN to yourSELF. Please.
This man is a total mess. It’ll take years of counseling to just figure out why he acts in such an irrational way. Then, you can also come back to couple’s counselling. Do you want to waste years of your life hoping this guy (ugh, 50 year old man!) might be finally almost enough? There are men out there who are ALREADY enough and are not as exhausting as this person. He produces a lot of noise and caused a mess and I have a feeling it’s a ploy to cover his total lack of substance in regards to you and your relationship.
@Monica, is there really even a question here? Sounds like you already have it all figured out. Do not talk yourself out of what you already know.
Monica
Time to let this guy go. I was surprised when you said he was 50 and had never been married. He’s a mamma’s boy, can’t grow up, show any real responsibility and his mum still cleans his house, does she buy his clothes and cook his dinner too.
I would say he’s never had a real relationship with a woman, he’s still a child.
Up to you if you want to continue seeing this man, but there are so many red flags and you’re trying to rationalise staying with him. Big bursts of effort on his part, then nothing.
You can do better.
I agree with Crystal. You would be crazy to NOT turn this down. I’m dealing with a truly selfish EUM and while no, I do not think he’s a bad person, I do not believe he has the capacity for compassion or empathy. It’s like a missing chip and it looks like your EUM is the same way. Mine is almost 50 too and I keep reminding myself that if he hasn’t learned these basic traits by now, he never will. <3
Dee? Someone without “the capacity for compassion or empathy” defines a ‘bad person’. In fact those are the defining traits of a psychopath, most of which have never seen the inside of a jail. HTH
You don’t get what you deserve; you get what you tolerate.
http://www.psychopathfree.com
So, so many people out there happily adopt sociopathic tactics to manipulate people. It’s a pity. This guy wants you when you’ve had enough of him, such that he’ll do something rash like proposing. You can never be secure in the relationship because he takes you for granted just when it’s time (as in healthy relationships) to grow closer with each other and relax into the relationship.
This guy – this guy wants to keep you confused and guessing, always on your toes for him. You can never relax and think clearly because you are in reaction to what he is doing and thinking. He wants to keep playing his guessing game. This man sounds emotionally abusive. He’ll do this with everyone. Don’t ever think you’re not good enough. This man would take Miss Universe for granted.
…”the welcome realisation that they’re not your problem anymore”…
I have discovered that this dynamic can occur in many different types of relationships. It most definitely is not exclusive to romantic relationships or those connections that have the potential to be romantic.
Case in point . . . I have this male”friend” . . .
Let me preface this by admitting that I used to be a textbook “Florence” – emphasis on the PAST tense now, though.
This “friend” of mine tested the waters early on in our relationship to see just how much boundary-busting he could get away with.
Initially, my reflex / trance reaction ( likely born of very old neural pathways ! ) was to acquiesce . . . “trim my sails”, if you will. Go along to get along.
The difference was that THIS time I was mindful enough to catch myself in the act of turning into a chameleon.
And with the most profound gratitude to you, Natalie, and the choir of healing voices from this site, I also realized that he was actively managing DOWN my expectations.
I could feel myself gradually becoming more and more invisible. At incredible personal cost, I may add.
NEVER AGAIN.
I began to define, patrol and enforce those authentic boundaries of mine. No confrontations were ever really necessary, either, because I discovered that I was actually rather indifferent to his opinion of me. I was able to handle everything with humour while remaining completely true to myself.
Sure enough, the intensity of his interactions began to wane ( this was never a romantic relationship ) and in almost the blink of an eye, he found a new girlfriend and proposed marriage to her within a few months.
This is where it has become REALLY interesting for me.
Predictably, the new girlfriend seems to be the cliche of a people-pleaser. She seems bound and determined to make this work ( she’s significantly older than my “friend” so I suspect there’s a fair bit of “last-chance saloon” thinking at play ) and will throw ANYONE under the bus who challenges her perception of reality.
She even asked her 20-year old son to move out because there was conflict.
…”the welcome realisation that they’re not your problem anymore”…
holy Catherine, I just wrote a whole bunch hear, but just read your post, and you said better than I could have dreamed to. Yes it definitely affects any sort of relationship…and what you said about what it cost you…this is probably the most resonant with me… this has cost me and I am still doing it, trying to find my way out…
Indeed. I always find myself doing so much for the ones I care for. I’d like to think that I do it without a want or need for reciprocation… But often, I find myself silently fuming when they don’t give me a response that I “favour”.
I just end up feeling so exhausted and unloved.
A more recent situation would be me wanting to do almost anything that would make my ex make me an exception over his religion. I now understand that nothing I did or would’ve, would matter anyways because it wasn’t really the religion differences that was the issue. Anyways, 1 week into the break up I reached out to him wanting to know how he was. Still caring for him when I obviously shouldn’t have.
It’s now a month into the breakup and moving on is still a rocky rocky road. Some days you’re confident of putting everything behind you and moving forward with your life. Others, you shamefully know that if he came crawling back or even just said a measly ‘Hi’, you’ll let him in. Finding your website is a blessing though. It has helped me to understand my behaviour and the relationship I had with the ex.
Such perfect timing. When I started not caring anymore, as usual, he disappeared, a switcheroo if you will. He’s always done that.
I’m sure he’ll try and reach out weeks or months from now. Who knows. Who cares. I made the decision to be done. It was hard. But I knew u could no longer be tortured.
So…. I changed my number, and blocked him in every which way. Regardless if he was ‘done’ and never wants to come around as always, it’s my decision that its over. It was very empowering. And whatever feelings come up, well, I guess I’ll just have to feel them and fight for me. Codependency w a jackass is very hard… And difficult to become completely unattached, however, the alternative in staying in something toxic, never going anywhere, and it feels far worse.
So. I
also, he admitted that last time I broke up with him he “exaggerated” his feelings for me so that I would get back with him he also admits he considers cheating when ever we are not doing great (his history is full of cheating). We have only been together for 7 months. After I said no, he continued to contact me so I sent a very harsh text telling him to not contact me again. I’m starting to feel a bit bad about it, hurting his feelings, which is stupid. My head is also rationalizing his limited ability to be emotionally available as not his fault and other things that were nice about him. Especially how he recently did improve communications (although then he created distance too). I know going back would be throwing away my life for his. Yet it’s still tempting. Its like that little glimpse of availability and connection outweighs all the negative. But that picture of being an unappreciated housekeeper keeps me from acting on it. still need validation from other : ) say I’m doing the right thing.
Hi Monica, zero tolerance for any person who says that he could/might/or even should cheat when in a relationship with you. This is totally unacceptable. Really, pull that chain woman!
@Monica, you can be sure any man who actually admits he will likely cheat on you during any rough times WILL. In fact, he will probably instigate or simply make up rough times so he can justify cheating. He’s given you this gift of being upfront about his AC-ness. If you stick with him you can’t say you weren’t warned EXACTLY what is to come.
Absolutely, Diane! I had a VERY bizarre job interview last year with the Director of HR of a small/medium size company. It felt like I was being punked. Towards the end he said “I can be passive aggressive.” I thought holy sh*t, thanks for the heads-up, buddy! The job was an ideal fit skills wise and I would have been making more money than I ever had, but the fact that he warned me that he can be passive aggressive, assured me that I was in for living hell and I was grateful for the information! Next!
Funny, I was not shocked that this man was 50. He has been running from growing up his whole life. I used to say the EUM I know is 50 going on 13.
He’s now 54 going on 13.
Societal pressures cause women to think that marriage is the “brass ring”. That we’ve failed at the basics of life if we never bagged a legal mate. “OMG. I was never married. Horrors!”
Monica, your gut is speaking loudly. Everything you say will be true. You will take over the Mommy role, your needs will be mostly ignored, even more so than they are now, because men like this get worse after they “bag” you. I saw it happen to a coworker. Her boyfriend became a tyrant after he convinced her to give up her apartment and move in with him. She had misgivings, but did the “good man” rationalization in her head…..10 days after she moved in she was ready to move out. He became an emotionally abusive lout who did nothing around the place and expected her to wait on him hand and foot while he did as he pleased. My coworker had left a bad marriage, was a single mother to her daughter, and was taking care of her responsibilities quite well on her own…but she bought into the “being rescued” fantasy and let this “good man” with a “good job” convince her to ignore her gut.
Never ignore the gut.
God, I love this woman – that’s you Natalie. After dropping my son at school this morning I felt like a BR fix and this was perfect for me.
Now, one month plus out of a relationship that I’d been trying to end for years I can tell you all that the change you will feel when the abuser – he was in my case – is out of your life is remarkable.
I have no idea what ‘happened’ (that’s not true, I do …) over those four years, but it was as NML writes here, he had all the power and I became a shell of myself. I stopped everything that made me feel not only good about myself, but made me feel like myself in essence, in a pure form.
All the while, he saw this dependence of mine as weakness and a sign to further treat me with disrespect and often cruelty. As NML writes it is all about keeping the power over you – with these kinds of men/women.
One danger as I’ve noticed with my most recent ‘boyfriend’ – very part-time but fantastic as it helped me see how a normal man acts, even if he is not in love with you, really …. – is the notion that we can handle it.
We appear to accept sht because we feel like we can handle it, it doesn’t affect us, or we have been through worse. This was definitely my case, as I have been through a few really bad experiences in my life before this one, it gives you a kind of false bravado.
I remember even saying something along the lines of this to my ex about something sexual – that I could handle it, but other women couldn’t (as if my acceptance of his rough treatment made me somehow ‘special’ … yuck).
He, of course, would have registered this as she doesn’t care about herself, so I shouldn’t either (if he ever thought along those lines). What I’m trying to say here is the importance of being careful about a) either acting like we are okay, because we have been through worse – and we are tough women, survivors etc b) not sharing too much about our history with these men, or any men. At the start, especially.
Finally, I agree with another poster here: Nat, could you have a think about writing something about navigating relationships as a single parent? I think part of my ‘toughness’ that I thought was resilience etc came from having survived a terrible abandonment by my son’s dad and also that many men see us as part-time options because we need them less, apparently, or make fewer demands on them.
Being alone with a child/children makes us vulnerable to unavailable types not only because we ourselves may be seeking something ‘part-time’ too on some levels and also because of broader expectations about us and our needs. Complicated a tad 😉
Blessings to you NML, you are a great heroine to me.
Natalie, your wonderful blog and books are like gulps of fresh healing water for me these days as I’m recovering from a fresh break up from a distant relationship including, as it seems, 80% of what you described as unavailable, lacking commitment and full of illusionary expectations. I could talk about it for ages and pages, but as this post is about caring too much about somebody, I had a somebody who didn’t want things to be as serious as I did (and even had the balls to tell it, though in milder terms and messing up the sequence ‘talk-sex’ as the talking took place after we slept together as usual) and I’ll stick to the point.
What if I’ve been raised up with belief that ‘giving is good and makes you feel good’, not giving of manipulatory kind, but truly caring for those who are dear to me? Expressing love with genuine care while not being needy or craving for gratitude/seeking validation as I know my own value and don’t need others to prove it. Meaning, I’ve been doing this in a natural way since I was a child and I do have several great friends who appreciate it and do the same for me. But this didn’t work with the man and I feel stupid and somewhat guilty and lost, because I seem to face a challenge of change:
– should I act the same in the future, being honest and glad when caring about the person (while being careful not to make the same illusion-mistakes all over) and actually still taking the risk of being rejected nonetheless?
– should I be less giving and caring/ wait for certain signals from the man first? What if these signals are just lies/ manipulation?
– should I embrace the idea the same ex of mine told me: “You should care about yourself and do what you want, because otherwise nothing will work”? Where lies the line between this and selfish then? And what if what I want is caring about him?
I confess each time I want to do something silly about this situation, I run to baggagereclaim and read more of clever things I should have read years ago (but better late than never). Thus I’m gradually getting over the horrifying cold feeling that I won’t have this person in my life any more (plus he already moved on). But I’m afraid these care habits of mine may get me into further relationship trouble and that’s what I don’t want at all.
Thank you again, Natalie, and thanks to all people leaving replies to posts and sharing their experience!
Good Morning MJ,
In response to your previous post, I am “out” quite often but I’m probably old enough to be your mother (ha) so my “exposure” is not always to a relevant audience.
Glad you’ve been uber focused and not ruminating as much.
Regarding NML’s new post:
“Present the person who has enjoyed the fringe benefits of you caring too much with facts, indifference, and in fact resistance to their bullsh*t (BS), and they have to move away from you or at the very least keep their distance.”
I’m working on indifference. I definitely cared to capacity.
Yesterday I listened to Natalie’s podcasts on the way to work. One was about the person who says one thing, thinks another thing, and behaves in an even different way. She related it to dealing with three different people. I think I am trying to reconnect a disconnected person.
My friend sent me this link:
http://saferelationshipsmagazine.com/external-locus-of-belief-2
“This makes accepting it, reallllyyyyyy accepting it, hard for her because she then needs to be reminded every 30 seconds that he is, in fact, permanently pathological. Once she is out of ear shot of a therapist or some other external validating system (books, dvds, cds, etc.) will she still accept his pathology?
‘Coming to believe’ pathology is a hard thing. It’s a shock to learn that someone you thought was the most wonderful person in the world is secretly very, very (did I say very?) sick. NOT only do you have to believe that the person is very, very (did I say very?) sick, but that sickness has no cure.”
“Holding the belief system steady is the challenge of overcoming cognitive dissonance.”
I cared deeply for someone who, in the end, claimed he cared about me (words) but his actions proved the exact opposite. Yesterday I was haunted by words that I recalled him writing, following the TLW: “I’m really sad about this.” As if he had no choice. How PA could he be? And then I remembered that he ONCE, after making all his nonsensical declarations, asked me what I wanted. And it was only so he could refute my wants, and PRETEND to care. Caring would have meant that he asked me along the way. Caring would have felt good. Caring would not have brought me to this site.
Good Morning Say Something,
Thank you for sending this link. I will look at this article. It sounds like you have moments like I do- where it is just hard to believe they pulled this on us. I constantly read about acceptance. Some days I wish this were just a bad nightmare. Speaking of nightmares I had one about him maybe two nights ago. I hate this. I wake up with a feeling of defeat and quickly have to start giving myself a pep talk.
I have to work on changing the course of my thoughts daily. He said he was really sad. He is a liar. This man is a dating site ho. In my opinion he already had someone lined up just like Judas did. Come on he knew what he was doing. What we have to realize is that it doesn’t take away from our worth. Your hair is still flowing and you will always be a glamour gurl.
Both of us have done some major reading. We need to figure out how to let this GO. We both cared deeply for men who are liars. They were so deceptive. You said it best they are SICK. Are you able to sleep better?
Thank you for telling me about the podcasts. I have never listened to Natalie’s podcast. I will have to do that. Say Something I am already dreading the weekend. This is not a good thing. I have some things planned. Do you have any suggestions for me?
MJ
Hi MJ,
Quasi-lunch break. The word “sick” was Sandra Brown’s. I am so stuck in looking for proof/ validation that something was “wrong” or “off” with him that I am stuck on continuing to “care” in some warped way whether I have correctly assessed him. Herein lies my problem. He proved that his caring level was sub-zero, and that apparently isn’t enough of a punch in the face for me to internalize that his empty promises, false words, and cold dismissal support that fact and incorporate it as a belief system.
I read the “symptoms” of complicated grief to my therapist and she said that she doesn’t find it helpful to slap more labels on myself. Then I felt like an idiot. But I realize that for whatever reason, I am still stuck and not letting go IN MY MIND. I am choosing continuous pain and suffering.
I am getting rid of a sheet set I bought “for us”. I brought one of the pillow cases to his house so he’d remember me at night when I wasn’t there. I’m getting rid of all of it. Do you have anything else to purge? Maybe buy yourself NEW SHEETS? Rearrange or redecorate your bedroom. I think I should do this for myself. I still don’t sleep better.
And when I have those 10 minutes of complete focus, with NO BGE thoughts, as soon as I realize it, I am struck with a wave of anxiety, because my conflict of letting go is like an internal battle of the senses. I am fighting myself.
Say Something,
Talk about triggers. I went to a little grocery store at lunch to pick up fruit and other things for my smoothies. The clerk who use to see us in the store (I would buy Brides magazines) ask me when is the big day. It was like nails running down a chalk board. I had to compose myself and tell her it was off. A man was standing behind me listening to every word. She is always friendly and meant no harm but it was like a punch in the stomach. Now, I understand what you mean when people say are you seeing anyone.
Earlier, I pulled up some other articles by Sandra Brown. She is pretty good. I carry a pretty binder with me that has very positive articles in it (it is like my heart first aid kit-lol). Then I can just sit and read.
Great idea about the bedroom makeover. I love an excuse to get a new duvet. Now, I have a weekend project. My bedroom is my haven. When I found out what he did. The DECEPTION. I did my bedroom over. I ordered a new mattress set and tossed out the chair (he use to sit his dusty ass in it) in my master bedroom. LOL. I even got rid of the sofa he planted his ass on in my family room. It was on that sofa that he probably used his phone to see who flirted with him on his dating profile. It was all premeditated. He knew what he was doing to me. I got rid of the dish set he got me. Gone. I wanted his lying spirit out of my house. It may have been drastic but it was my way to cleanse him out of my place. He is demonic and that is how I feel about it. He actually use to spray his cologne on my pillow so that when he was gone I would think of him. You cant tell me this man didn’t love me. I will never understand why his lying ass just couldn’t say I ain’t happy with you I am moving on. No he needed to humiliate me. You know what I think we have going on here. PEOPLE in general are never really fricken happy. They are always looking for something better. Something is always missing. It is this never ending pursuit of happiness and guess what it means somebody is always gonna get replaced.
If you can lie to someone and keep coming to their house knowing you are humping someone at a hotel. He was going out late at night and returning in time to give me my morning call to say he loved me. Oh and still continue to talk about our wedding and our vacation home. That is nothing short of DEMONIC.
People who lie have no idea of the damage they are doing. This is why I can’t allow this grief to destroy my life. I have nothing else to toss out. Are you going to delete all of those photos and texts? Yes toss the pillows. I never went back to his place to get things I left. I figured he would put them in the trash. The deception was too hurtful.
Say Something it is so good that you have a professional to talk about this issue with on a regular basis. Is it helping you? When I do my 90 minute heated yoga class that helps me leave my thoughts on the mat. I almost feel new when I leave. I am going to start doing this in the evening before bed at a local studio.
I guess you can hear my anger in this post. It is doing me no good to rehash. How do you move on after a relationship ends? Don’t continue to rehash the past because it is DONE.
MJ (hoping one day this will all just be my PAST)
Mary Jane,
“PEOPLE in general are never really fricken happy. They are always looking for something better. Something is always missing. It is this never ending pursuit of happiness and guess what it means somebody is always gonna get replaced.”
True. Because one can’t get happiness from any external material source or a person. No person can make us happy and complete. Some people never get that so they keep chasing the illusive perfect source of happiness.
Btw, thank you for the life coach suggestion in the other post. I am in counseling and had my second session. I feel like I talked too much but it might be normal during the first couple times. She already said some things, which were so revealing to me! (childhood connection to my now anxiety and shame/guilt feelings). Although I have read a lot on this subject, it’s true that a professional can put it in such a context that you finally get the dots connected together. Also, I am hoping she will help me guide to the path to healing. And of course, like she said and I agree, to be helped YOU want to be helped and ready for it. Had I come to see her a year ago I don’t think I would have been very receptive. I was broken, raw, and defensive. I know the theories, but I don’t know how to practically and constructively improve my life outlook and thinking processes using cognitive techniques (or others that she applies). So quite interesting. I don’t think I can go to many sessions but few more will benefit. She said herself that being an analytical and self-aware person, I already know where I am and what to do, just need some help to propel this.
On the subject of the post: wonderful article. Wish I had the access to this site years ago. I too all my life in every relationship, romantic or otherwise, cared for everyone else and disregarded myself. The counselor calls this codependency. When our needs in our childhood are not met, when our security and vulnerability are shaken (alcoholic, emotionally unavailable home and other relatives who were critical and disapproving of me), we grow up taking care of others to control the events, to stabilize the chaos, to prove ourselves that we are needed and loveable. To validate ourselves because we are so unsure of ourselves and don’t think we are worth anything.
Great posts and self-reflection. This definitely should take all or most of us back into our past and think what happened that made us like this (especially those of us who are extreme doormats and pleasers and self-abusers). That’s what I have been doing for over a year and now have reached the point to not only understand all this but heal and build a new life.
Hi Sofia,
The life coach that I was suggesting is someone that helps you chart a career path. I just wanted to make sure you knew what I was suggesting. These coaches help executives and people at all levels determine who to get their career on track. I know you are considering a new direction.
How are things going with your exploration of a new career path?
Hi Mary Jane, thank you for checking with me on the subject. I am brainstorming different options while applying for different jobs. I need to get out of the current environment first to clear my head, to have new challenges, and feel engaged. I have been half-dead in my current work for over a year. Long time overdue. Lots of thinking and evaluating. Trying to understand whether I need a true career change or a different job in the similar career. Going back to school is not scary for me, but it might not be logistically possible to leave my 10-year old daughter at home in the evenings while I am in school. There are online options, but not for every career path.
About the weekend and how you and Say Something dislike it: I had that feeling during the first months of post breakup. Now I can’t get enough time. So much to read, learn, hobbies, working out, being outside, church, and just other things like movies and just being alone in the quiet and enjoying your own company. You will get there too!! On your own timing! I know and believe in it. Be patient with yourself. You will live fully again and enjoy your time off with yourself!
Hi Sofia,
I really hope you find a job you LOVE. Stay focused till you get a job that challenges you. Set weekly goals and keep pushing. Thanks for your encouraging words today. They are so needed.
Sofia I am STUCK. My moods now are just up and down. I hope Say Something and I get to the point you are now.
MJ
Mary Jane, it seems like you are stuck, but you are growing all the time, even when you have stuck or very low days. I have had low days too throughout my healing. Actually these last couple days were kind of low, but I don’t get panicky thinking I am stuck again or back to square one. No, it’s just all part of it. You are healing even without realizing it. You are going on with your life and taking care of yourself. It’s very normal to feel low. Cry it out and know it will pass and the next day or next week will be much better. You won’t be stuck in it forever. It’s just the waves of emotions and feelings we go through. The main thing is not to judge yourself for feeling low. Just feel it out. Sit in your grief for few hours and wait it out and know another day will come and you will feel better. Read Susan Elliot’s website too. She has training in grief. There are articles on grief on her site. I found them so helpful and soothing. It’s ok to feel sad and depressed at times. You will feel better. This won’t last. And remember once you survive this and learn how to feel ok with your grief and sadness, and you will, life will bring other events that will make us grow. Good and bad. And we will go through the same cycles again, but better equipped and more compassionate towards ourselves. I read somewhere and that we are like trees that need pruning once in a while to bear a better fruit with each year. Like vines aging and being pruned and taken care of. Our berries get better and better with each year. Our own healing and the healing of God make us stronger and happier as we mature and grow. I believe in it.
Hi Sofia,
You have so much wisdom. I am so sorry you have had to endure so many painful things. I thank you for having the courage to share your challenges here. It lets me see that we all experience disappointments. Thank you for your post to me today. It is so helpful. I will look at Susan’s page and read about grief.
I went to see a comedy today. Just like you said we have ups and downs. I had gotten so use to having someone in my life to do things with. I hate starting over but I have learned reading here that we all go thru it.
There are days Sofia that I believe God has actually left me like turned his back on me. Some days the pain does not let up. But I think it is mainly related to loneliness. I worked on my little plan some today for rebuilding my life. I have a little 3 month plan to keep me focused. As I said we all endure disappointments. We have to regroup and start again.
Sofia sometimes when I read stories on here about all the games ass clowns are playing- I just don’t know if I want to do this again. But I have to move forward with the knowledge I have a trust my gut feeling.
You are right I have to be kind to myself and set with these emotions. I want to stop thinking about why he did it. He was a selfish liar who turned out to be a cheater. I want to just accept it. I doubt if anyone will ever occupy that much time in my life again.
I need to renew my relationship with God, but I don’t feel like he is here. When I hear you talk about God I m inclined to try again. This is my foundation but the pain is just overwhelming. I think I am going to have to really stay outside working out and try some other things. I will get thru this. I appreciate your support.
I hope you had a great day with your daughter. Happy Mother’s Day Sofia.
Here is a big virtual hug. Thanks for being here for me. Thanks for helping Say Something too. She has been so hurt. Let’s stick together. It is so important to have support.
MJ
Mary Jane, no place to reply to your post, so I will do it here. I hope you will see it.
God never turns His back on us. It DOES feel like that sometimes, but what is happening is that He is letting us experience our pain and suffering so that we can learn and grow. He is always with us, carrying as all along. If you don’t feel like it now, you will realize it eventually that He has always been by your side. As the time goes by you will look at your past and recognize that even the pain and suffering you went through contributed to your growth and betterment and therefore a happier you and a better life quality. Everything has its meaning.
To Say Something: you say that so many things remind you of him and you associate the things you used to do and the places with him. I just thought all of sudden this morning that it has been 15 months for me but I STILL avoid going to the part of the town where he lives. I still avoid doing the things and going to places we went together. I still get startled when I see the car that he drives and find myself peaking inside it, looking for him.
I realize it is a part of the grief process: still searching for the person you lost (or you think you lost). So see, don’t be so hard on yourself that you are still immersed into the past. I am too in a way even though I feel I am doing pretty well overall, but the good thing the associations and memories have been dulling. It is such a S L O W process. Just couple months ago I took the exit on the highway to his apartment and broke down in tears (had not been in that part of the town or taken the exit for a year). Didn’t realize I would react like that after a year. But then I told myself, it’s ok. Take it slow. I will be healed eventually. Just keep living my life. Raise your daughter, focus on professional changes, exercise, eat healthy, and enjoy your interests and hobbies. Just keep doing those things even if while going through the pain at times. The truth is that I find after 15 months I still get sad and some memories, movies, his language (different from mine), cologne, his country, places, certain food still trigger a profound sadness in me, but overall, as time passes by these incidents become less frequent and more dull. That’s the good news. The reality I see and you see too, Say Something, our healing process is still going. And I am ok with it. As long as I keep growing and moving forward and working consciously toward it and do feel relief more and more recently albeit with some occasional episodes of sadness and crying like I did this weekend in between of my good times too.
Healing is a long and complicated process. We can’t rush it especially if we experienced the most traumatic experience (so far anyway) in our life. The experience that brought on the surface all the previous fears, insecurities, my issues, childhood problems, my previous relationships, etc., everything resurfaced and I am dealing with everything at the same time on top of losing the relationship I thought I could have had with him and the loss of the child that I will grieve for the rest of my life.
Every person we meet has a purpose in our life. And this time we all, Mary Jane, Say Something, and I, are going through life altering changes. And that is why, even though it feels like God left us, no He has not. He is there, right by our side, supporting us. I feel it and you will feel too once you heal more and be able to look back and assess your current state and realize you must have had Divine help to raise from the brokenness. Have a good week and the next weekend will be better! Label it with good description and it might happen (cognitive thinking :).
Hi Sofia/ MJ,
Just returned from 500 miles of am extended, exhausting weekend. I got to spend time with my one friend who listens to me endlessly (in real life). On my long drive home, I did my usual— crying. But it got worse. Across the highway by a river, I saw about 20 EMS/ rescue vehicles. Then I saw a wrecked motorcycle that looked like his. He lives nowhere near where I was traveling, but it didn’t matter because I just reacted like it WAS him. It was reactive and raw. I thought I was going to hyperventilate and felt like I was having an out of body experience or something. I imagined texting and just writing “please just say you’re not dead” but I DID NOT. And I remembered… When it was ME facing a serious medical diagnosis, he didn’t care. He never, ever, EVER contacted me to find out anything. The contact in the aftermath was ALL ABOUT HIM. And then I got more upset. With myself. How can I care to THIS level about someone who doesn’t remember that I even exist? How can I react like that? I didn’t expect to come upon an accident that would trigger an over the top reaction in me. It was like an illogical, horrible, chain reaction of messed up emotions firing inside my mind. I feel completely depleted. I did not realize my feelings could so wrongly misfire and take over like that.
Sofia/MJ,
I meant to addreess what Sofia commented on:
“PEOPLE in general are never really fricken happy. They are always looking for something better. Something is always missing. It is this never ending pursuit of happiness and guess what it means somebody is always gonna get replaced.”
Agreed, this grass is always greener thought process is so EU. And super painful when discovered PA style. After TLW, I asked him on the phone “Are you happier without me around?” BGE response was “I don’t know how to answer that.” Once again, he showed his caring level to be at sub-zero.
Sofia, good to hear about your therapy. I’m finding this site to be more helpful than my therapy sessions. And all the co-pay charges are adding up.
Hoping we all find true happiness.
Say Something, I find that I already know so much that the therapist has to say, but I like how she has these insights and conclusions that I couldn’t derive myself although I have had all this theoretical knowledge. I won’t take too many sessions, probably 2-3 more to get tips on the strategy on how to move forward. I am quite self-aware and equipped with the self-knowledge and understanding the root of my problems. I just need some directions on how to change my negative and anxious (shame and guilt ridden still sometimes) ways of thinking to rebuild my life. I have been getting better but few recommendations at this point would be helpful from someone who is a professional and an objective person.
Hi Sofia,
I’m starting to wonder if spending $100/month on a therapist is helpful. I may cut back to alternate weeks again. I just keep thinking there is something that I’m missing, that I’ll find here, in a book, online, in therapy. Something different that I haven’t tried to all but vanish thoughts of BGE from my mind. Erase the imprint. I’m so happy to hear that you’re making progress. May you enjoy a wonderful day with your daughter!
Say Something, I think you are very well on your way to recovery. This blog and all the books you read are even more helpful than the therapy I think. I won’t attend more than couple more sessions. I am already equipped with the knowledge and perhaps the counselor can just suggest some kind of plan from the cognitive therapy perspective to redirect my thinking in a different way. I know what I am supposed to think but I am not sure how to do that consistently and what is the plan for the new pattern of thinking that can help me to become healthier. $100 a week is a lot but pretty typical, unfortunately.
Thank you and enjoy your last day of the weekend too. I admire that you run 5K after not running for a long time. That’s quite a determination. I hear from runners that a lot of it’s a mental preplanning and telling yourself “I can do it.” See – you CAN do it if you put your mind to it. With time you will be happy again! You will run out of gas thinking of BGE eventually. I already picture you in a year from now (approximately, could be much sooner!) saying to yourself or to us on BR, “What? BGE? Who is that? I forgot when I thought of him last time.” It will happen:) But you will recycle the depression stages. I have in the last couple days but didn’t post about it on here because I am used to it and see it as normal. I experienced sadness about him. I felt like I missed him. But how I could miss a person that treated me like that? I know what I have been missing is the unrealized hopes and dreams. I feel this quiet sadness, a little heavy, like a sorrow and grief. But I don’t dwell on it because I know it will pass and it’s normal to have these moments now, a year later or maybe 5 years later. Considering my history with him and what happened, I am ok feeling like this once in a while. It is understandable. As long as I live my life and continue growing. The same WILL HAPPEN TO YOU. Give it some time. Don’t get impatient with yourself. I was getting impatient with myself by the year mark thinking what is wrong with me, why I am still thinking of him. Then there was a sudden change (or seems like sudden, of course it was not, I had been growing towards it), which I think was the acceptance. And now it will keep on improving from here and on.
Thank you Sofia,
“With time you will be happy again! You will run out of gas thinking of BGE eventually. I already picture you in a year from now (approximately, could be much sooner!) saying to yourself or to us on BR, “What? BGE? Who is that? I forgot when I thought of him last time.” It will happen:)”
I hope you are right. I hope I can get there. As I drove for hours yesterday listening to the radio, I heard my namesake’s song. I need to give up on him.
Hi Say Something and Sofia,
I could not respond under your latest post. Say Something I have had nightmares about him being in a car accident. I wake up with the urge to check on him. At one point, I had a dream about his mom being sick and again wanted to call.
Each time I woke up from these nightmares it was a tough day. I reminded myself about what he did and I have NEVER called any of these people. His mother knew me for years and always said I would be her daughter in law. Once he cheated I never heard from her. I understand because that is her son. He told her and his family what he wanted them to know. A lie for sure.
I point this out to you to say that you had this trigger because you still care about him. But you have now taken the time to think about how he treated YOU. I am so glad you have said how he treated YOU. Even though you could have had cancer this man NEVER called to check on YOU. You don’t need someone like this in your life.
I am so glad you did not call or text him. I think this is part of the grieving process. I have had this experience. I just told myself that he is someone that I need to leave ALONE. Someone who treats us with disrespect should NEVER be invited back into our lives for any reason. These two men did damage to US.
One way to get over them is not to idealize them. When I have thoughts of him I focus on how he cheated and lied. I no longer focus on the good times. I think- how long was he cheating behind my back? I will not idealize a liar and cheater. He had every opportunity to come clean and never did.
Everyday I have to make sure I am telling myself the real story about him. He is a liar and a cheater. Your energy has to be focused on you. You have to focus on your recovery plan.
We are going to have tough times. It is just this whole grieving process and there are days it is really tough. As Sofia says we are going to get thru this. I only have virtual support. Everyone in real life no longer talked about it after two weeks. That is TOUGH. My family thinks I should be OVER it.
I am glad you are safe and that you had a real friend to talk to in real life (SMILE). HUGS.
MJ
MJ,
I just wanted to say that although you may have no support in ‘real life’ you do have ALL of us who have had experienced this pain to give you support here on BR.
I have not commented on your posts as others know you better and have put it better than I could. But please know that we are here right behind you as you re-build and get stronger.
Very best wishes to you and all BR readers. This site has given me so much to aim for I am very grateful. xxx
Hello Bellakins,
THANK YOU! I appreciate your support. I was out running today and at one point I became overwhelmed just thinking about being ALONE. I kept going and talked myself thru an hour run. I refused to stop. I appreciate all of the virtual support as I rebuild my life. I needed this note today. I think I am gonna make it (SMILE). Each day I wake up committed to keep pushing.
Your note has touched my heart today. I just gotta keep pushing. The hurt will just be a memory on day. One day I will have a couple of new friends. I just takes time.
I appreciate every ounce of support I get here. It is important to me. Big hug from me.
MJ
Thank you MJ,
For making me feel a little less crazy…
I checked the news all day, and it was NOT him (duh) but it WAS a fatality. What a horrible, horrible trigger. Anxiety since yesterday… FOR WHAT? No, he never followed up to find out anything. I didn’t give much info, because it wasn’t for him to know. Only that it was a serious medical concern involving specialists, and if there was ANY possibility we’d work things out, he needed to dig deep and be there. He “expressed concern” and disappeared, because he was “dating again”. I got that TEXT just two weeks after our last ever “I haven’t given up” phone conversation.
So, there’s a guy who didn’t love me. At all. My friend is trying to hammer that in my head. But ok, does having no love equate with I don’t even care enough to pick up the phone? It took me two months to contact him, and I never mentioned it again.
I drove myself out of town for biopsy #2 with a new specialist, whom I’d contacted by email. I had pleaded for (and got!) an appt because she wasn’t taking new patients. I remember sitting in the waiting room looking at how many couples were there and making note that there wasn’t anyone with me who cared what my outcome would be. Nobody to go home and cry to while I had to wait for results. No BGE. He didnt even care. They sent my specimen across the country to a “super specialist”. Yes, I had a few friends and family members who knew, but it’s not the same. And in the end, benign, for anyone reading this new.
Even worse, all this was happening on the tails of the breakup. I’d get weighed and the nurses would tell me I was lucky. (no, I lost 11 lbs because I can’t eat) I felt like the biggest POS and cared more about BGE than my health. Part of me wanted the worst possible news. That is how absolutely awful I felt. I must somehow deserve to get a fatal diagnosis. Then it would be understandable why the relationship couldn’t work. Nobody wants to be with damaged goods; with poison. I felt like poison. I WAS POISON.
I knew and I know this was messed up thinking, but I DIDN’T CARE!! And how lucky was I? I could reference my medical issue as the root of my misery, and not the real reason, which people would not accept as legit. Then I’d just be crazy.
Six weeks prior, I’d never been happier. I think last May/June/July was my rock bottom. I have now burned out all my “real life” support, save for one person, and she’s long distance. I am fortunate that she puts up with my stuck-ness.
So yes, I still “care” about a guy who never loved me. Who never cared. Who painted his image with “nice” words and told me in the end, that I was offensively harsh, critical, and chastising. For wanting answers. For reaching out because I so desperately missed him. For being confused. For being left in the dust. For trusting and believing him. For caring.
Hello Say Something,
I wanted to respond a little earlier. I got home a little later than I normally do. Yep. I was at the salon. Big presentation on Wednesday. So, I must be professional. Workouts are killing my hair but saving my soul. I wonder if these people can see how sad I am.
You need a little first aid kit on hand when you have all this anxiety. I know what it feels like. When you can try to calm yourself down and (1) just meditate (2) go for a walk (3) pour your heart out in a journal (4) read a good book or (5) just sit quietly and give yourself a PEP talk.
Consider listening to How to Stop Worrying and Start Living on You Tube (Dale C). His voice alone is so relaxing. I want you to recover. I want to recover.
I have had a scare just like you did in terms of health. You do recall I told you my Auntie died from breast cancer. So, my heart aches for you having to sit in that room alone while other couples were there. I saw couples tonight at the spa. All hugged up (Yuck-lol). Each time I get good news I skip out of those medical facilities. I just felt Relieved.
You have had some hopes and dreams sucked away from you. You need to LOVE yourself. It is so sad but you have put him first. No you come first. You wanted that LOVE so bad. How are you going to start to accept that those dreams are not going to happen with him? You want a true lover who will be in the waiting room if you ever need support. Mr. Ass would never do that for you. Try to visualize a new life for yourself. This is the same reality that I have to face now.
I am glad you have one real life person to call on. Priceless. Thanks to everyone who is going to give me support here. Because this is the support that I will use to dig out. I put all my eggs in one basket and he ran off to a hotel and started over.
When you have tough days just think that someone else is out here pushing daily to leave behind broken promises. Some days I feel like I am trying to climb Mt. Everest. I play games with myself just to keep moving. Some mornings I pretend like I am moving through Khumbu Icefall (the most dangerous part of Mt. Everest). I do this to motivate myself to take care of just getting dressed or knocking out important things QUICK. We all have things we do to keep moving in the face of adversity.
When you think about him start to paint a different picture. Paint one of some guy with a dark soul who manipulated you to take care of his own selfish wants. I see Judas for who he is a rat. He sat in my house smiling while he was out humping someone else. I don’t need that. Visualize what your new world is going to look like.
You are not harsh or critical for wanting answers from him. He felt guilty that you wanted answers. Sweetie that dirty rat had already moved on. He knew when you were in bed crying. He was cultivating a relationship with someone new and when you tired to make sense of it- You called him on the carpet. He wanted you to go away quietly so that he could continue what he was already doing behind your back. he didn’t want to feel the guilt.
Now, I need for you to consider planning out a weekend with something enjoyable to do. Even if this is a weekend where you get pampered from Friday to Sunday. If you feel you have to be quiet and peaceful this weekend I would understand. Just be GOOD to yourself.
Big Hug,
MJ
MJ,
I’ve been awake since 3:30 AM and am worn out before the day has really started. I watched a show on the dangers of climbing Mt Everest, and remember there was a woman who insisted that she make it to the top, against the advice of the Sherpas. She made it! She took photos at the summit! And then she died trying to make it back down.
I read NML’s next post and thought of you even tho it’s about *online* because you actually wrote that you thought you’d struck gold. Me too. Keep your heart of gold. You put your eggs in one basket. Me too. We got rotten eggs. Sulphur. Fool’s gold smells like sulphur.
Running late this morning, but wanted to thank you so much for being so thoughtful, as always. I’m wondering if you work in the salon/ spa business!
@sofia
“When our needs in our childhood are not met, when our security and vulnerability are shaken (alcoholic, emotionally unavailable home and other relatives who were critical and disapproving of me), we grow up taking care of others to control the events, to stabilize the chaos, to prove ourselves that we are needed and loveable. To validate ourselves because we are so unsure of ourselves and don’t think we are worth anything”
Wow, this this amazing, your very insightful! I couldn’t help but think, this is me! How do we change this?
Chickpea, I think being aware of it is the first step. Then, for me, it was the breakup with the ex. I see now how he was the last person in my vicious cycle of self-destruction. The combination of these realizations, reading BR, turning to Faith, and reading psychology material as well has transformed my life throughout the last 15 months. Interestingly, I feel I change every month. Sometimes even every week! It’s like I am a child going through a growth spurt only in an accelerated version. I have been catching up on the growing up in the last year because I had been stuck in the adult-child life for the past 37 years. This has been a fulfilling journey. I feel I have grieved so many different situations and losses at the same time and recognize every event and person for what they are. So that has been the change for me. It didn’t come overnight. It an accumulation of events that brought me to the point where I am now. A lot of problems are brought on by ourselves if we are honest with ourselves. That has been revelation too. Being responsible for our own behavior and acting accordingly. Not engaging in certain situations and people. FINALLY feeling respect to yourself and liking yourself and taking care of yourself have been new feelings for me. It is the intimacy with myself that I have been building all this time. Without it we will continue repeating the history.
Say Something,
On second thought I do need to PURGE every memory of JUDAS. This has drastically impacted the quality of my LIFE. I want my LIFE back. I am trying daily.
Good Morning MJ,
Purging is good. You’re on the healing path. I don’t have much to purge since he didn’t give me anything. As a matter of fact, HE kept MY things. And he never acknowledged having or returning them, like he forgot or something. Idk.
And I’m so sorry about your lunch time q&a session? What do you tell the next person who asks? We can’t control what others say to us, only how we respond, right? I got asked the question YET AGAIN by a friend over the phone. At least she is someone I might actually tell. I said “don’t ask” and followed with “how’s your marriage?”
Keep purging. I think physical activity is a form of purging anxiety. So here’s my big accomplishment. Yesterday after work I did my first “treadmill 5k”. I have a treadmill at home that I haven’t used in a year. Even tho I am fairly athletic, and do things that INCLUDE running, I am not “a runner” partly because I don’t love it, partly because I’m lazy, and partly because it’s not my strength. So anyhow today I decided to startup again. I also realized that in the past I was setting my pace too high, so today, even though my pace was a 12 min mile, I ran the whole thing for the first time without walking. Last year I quit at 2.5 miles, but this time I did 3.2 and then realized I only needed to hit 3.1. So even though it took me 37 min, I did it. In the past I have been frustrated because I couldn’t run under 10/mile. I adjusted my expectations and decided I wanted to finish at a reasonable pace. Goal is to do it in under 30 but I realize I’m just not there yet. I’m taking care of myself in this way. I will never have a six-pack, and a couple years ago that was a goal too that I didn’t reach. But I can IMPROVE.
You already did a bedroom makeover too, wow! You are moving forward and healing. I’m thinking about it. And I’m still just sad.
I’m experiencing uncomfortable, internal conflict. Trying to write it out, work it out, purge it out. Trying to let go of sadness, but somehow feeling that I am supposed to be sad.
Did you already have your wedding dress?
Above: today = yesterday. I am not running this morning. Was supposed to go biking with a friend today, but found out he told me a lie via omission of the truth, and it pissed me off. He tried explaining that it wasn’t a lie, and that made it worse. I got angry and said “I’ve been lied to enough in my life. I know what a lie is. You can think whatever you want, but I know what I believe.” it was a pretty big one too. He’s had other flags and “little lies” that have caused me to pull back and not trust. I can’t be around that. Having plans for six months to participate in an activity with your (supposed) wife you are divorcing. Why would you agree to do something with her? Well then he used a secondary (but true) reason as to why he was unavailable for something else he was supposed to be at. I found out where he REALLY was, and them came the “not a lie” story. Anyhow, he claims daily that she won’t relent, yet I see he is encouraging her behavior, and coming to me and others for support. I told him that he has no boundaries and is like an amoeba. We are supposedly friends that are supporting each other, but he is losing ground with me. Trying to tell me what is and isn’t a lie was not a good move after going through a PA discard, which he knows all about.
Say Something,
I am proud of you for setting a boundary and cutting off the friend who lied. It is funny but I have a male friend (associate) who had a break up when I did. The two of us had planned to go out together just as friends to try to have a social life. We had sat around and talked about places to go.
I was too busy thinking about how Judas got over on me. I didn’t really want to socialize. He met someone and went on vacation with her. (This shows you how life can pass you by.) He lied to me about it. Someone else told me. I had no interest in this guy just a friend (if I can even call him that). I just think it is interesting how men lie. I figured this guy really had an interest in me. Otherwise why lie. He is always telling me about a movie star that I resemble and how I deserve to have someone really good. Judas is HOT (liar and cheat but HOT). So, there was flat out no interest in this guy. This may be a fault of mine but I have to be physically attracted to a man to even consider them.
When another associate told me that this friend left the country for vacation I was shocked. He told me he was some where else. Just for fun I sent him a text. He lied about where he was. I never really confronted him because after the HELL I have been thru I don’t do messy. I demand PEACE in my life. He is only a friend I would have just ask him why he had to lie, but I let that go.
I now offer him support in his career and we exchange messages just as friends. He also asks me for advice about his new girlfriend. I give him advice and leave it at that. He has a girlfriend and I would never meet him for drinks unless she comes or knows about it. That is just a flat out violation of girl code. He just told me they moved in together. He ask for advice on that before he did.
He tells me daily he envies all my free time. Really? It can be lonely. I am trying to fill my days full of things so that I don’t have time too think. It is not productive.
MJ
Say Something,
I happy for you! Keep pushing and doing your workouts. Workouts are like a medicine for me. They really help regulate my mood. Just being out in nature daily is a big help.
Today, I thought about my Aunt. When she found out that she had breast cancer she flew everywhere that she could go to consult with doctors. She wanted to live. Every day she woke up it was about trying to find help to extend her life. She was fighting daily. So, today I am telling myself it is so important to leave the past behind. I see my Aunt’s pretty face filled with pain as she struggled to find any means to LIVE. Sadly, she died but fought to LIVE. Sitting here unhappy over a liar who is living some how makes no sense. If my Aunt were here she would be soaking up everything this life has to offer.
Last night I ran around shopping for things to do over two bedrooms in my house. They don’t really need to be done but ok I am giving them a fresh summer makeover. Found some beautiful duvets and pillows. I found paintings too and all sorts of cute things. So, decided to do all bathrooms over too. I had to make three trips to get everything home. Some other things are being delivered on Friday (chairs and lamps). I was WORE out by the time I finished all of that. No time to think about foolishness.
Yes I already had my beautiful dress. I walked back into the wedding boutique that fitted me for the dress and left it with a note for them to donate it. The lady at the counter ran outside to ask me if I was sure. Her mouth dropped wide open. I didn’t want to be Ms. Havisham (Great Expectations) sitting around with fake hopes and dreams. I closed that door tight to end all HOPE. The gown was custom fit just for me. I hate to rehash these old memories they make my upset. I purged everything related to that relationship in days. Everything else related to my wedding was donated or put in the trash. I have no memories of every planning a wedding at my home. I throw out all pictures that were taken. The newspaper announcement of our engagement all in a hefty and gone with the garbage man.
Each day I also forgive myself for not know what was going on behind my back. I hate to give the snake credit but he deserves an award for faking me out. I had no CLUE. It came down on me like a tsunami. Someone was allowing him to sneak around with them at night. Ultimately it was his choice. I remind myself daily that short of hooking a gps up to someone’s ass you can never know what grown adults choose to do.
Everyday I read about letting go of the PAST. I read two great articles today. I am determined to move on. Determined to let the past stay behind me.
We have to keep moving forward daily.
@Sofia- Sofia these articles are really good. If you get a chance look at them.
“When one door closes, another opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the one which has opened for us.” ~ Alexander Graham Bell
Great articles:
http://www.elephantjournal.com/2015/05/im-letting-go/
http://www.elephantjournal.com/2014/12/learning-to-leave-the-past-behind-in-7-steps/
MJ,
Sorry to hear the ordeal of your aunt, but I like that her positive spirit gives you inspiration.
I understand about needing physical attraction. I completely agree with that too, as long as the other good things are in place. Funny, with BGE, I wasn’t totally sure if the physical/ chemistry part was there at first. But it was and now I wish it never was.
I was completely faked out too. COMPLETELY. It wasn’t your fault, yet you still work to forgive yourself. Me too. I was 100%, both feet in, stand-by-you committed. And it means… NOTHING but pain and sadness. I am sorry to bring up bad memories for you, but I wondered if you’d really purged. And yes, wow! That took guts! I have not deleted. Not yet.
I know you’re still carrying the anxiety of running into him. I hate this residual anxiety. I have never been an anxious person… until 11.5 months ago.
I texted my friend who “omitted the truth” and he apologized, citing his multiple issues, codependency, yada yada. I just need to step back. Our friendship will be different. But I don’t need to be around drama that he is creating.
Liked the links you posted. I hope we can all meet for coffee someday and celebrate our progress!
Hi Say Something,
I will take a smile these days anyway I can get it. I loved seeing the end of your message about coffee one day to discuss our progress. We can laugh about how we thought things would never change and how much happier we are.
I think it is good for us to set boundaries after what we experienced. If I deal with someone who tells lies in anyway- you know I will have no tolerance for that. I am on high alert in terms of lies.
Physical attraction is a must for me. But in the future I will make sure the handsome devil I am dealing with has character.
I don’t like dealing with anxiety like this. I am not use to living like this. I was a joyful woman before. People use to tell me that they loved to hear me laugh. Its coming back and I take it anyway I can get it. When I do laugh now I capture the moment in my mind-it is like I am in awe.
The jerk who said time heals all wounds has a valid point (lol). I am starting to accept it all and I kinda believe one day it might be ok. Let’s just say I am use to being alone now. I don’t like it cause Judas got me so use to having company.
I read everyday to keep myself out of dark places. I can honestly say BR and conversations with you (Sofia and others) have helped me tremendously. Reading the posts here is wonderful support. I appreciate everyone who shares here and the support is great.
MJ
Good Morning,
Yesterday I received 3 emails thru the online dating site I’m on.
1. 25 year old: “how’s it goin”. Ummm I’m 20 yrs older than you, freak. I am not your MILF.
2. Hot guy but a smoker (deal breaker) and his only msg was “:)” I think his profile might be fake.
3. Not attractive guy and too old for me plus wearing sunglasses in his pic.
Three strikes here.
Oh, Friday morning cognitive dissonance:
https://psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com/2011/07/29/a-painful-incredulity-psychopathy-and-cognitive-dissonance/
“healthy relationships don’t end abruptly, as if they never even happened because normal people can’t detach so quickly from deeper relationships.”
Here’s to caring about ourselves, to overcoming the weekend blues, and getting stronger.
MJ, you have a heart of gold.
Good Morning Say Something,
Ahhh I wish I had magical powers. I would make this right for us. Sorry about the creepy responses on the dating site. I would turn all of those down too. But you are out there trying. You just need one guy to be the right one. Smoking is a major deal breaker with me. I am not going anywhere near dating sites. This is going to make it tougher to find Mr. Right.
The manager at the salon (I hang out in-major social life) told me she met a great guy online. They have been dating for two years. She told me they had a great date and went to a ballet. I use to do that every year with Judas. I HATE the memories. I am in here crying on a another Friday morning. Damn it. Who lives like this? If I could purge those thoughts from my hard drive they would be gone to. The lady at the salon is trying to convince me to set up a profile. I am not going to do it.
The good thing about me hanging out at the salon is that the two of us are becoming friends and plan to go lunch. I am trying to build my little social network. It takes time to build a new life. Part of me is still refusing some days to really accept this as my new reality.
Healthy relationships don’t end abruptly. So sad I guess they don’t. I was blindsided. I had to kick him to the curb when I found out what he was doing. I had no clue. He must have been laughing his ass off the night he proposed-he knew it would never really go anywhere. I wish I had kicked him in his teeth why he was on one knee lying. He knew he was out sleeping around. This is where all the questions just start coming up for me. Why bother proposing to pull a dirty deceptive act? Why act so engaged in all the wedding planning only to cheat?
Say Something the questions I just wrote are the ones that take me down a deep dark hole. It does no good to think about these questions. My energy needs to be focused on how I can try to enjoy the weekend. That relationship is OVER.
I am going to do a triathlon weekend like you talked about in one of your posts. I have two gym memberships. I will split my time between both (one has an indoor track-the other has a upscale spa environment along with great workout equipment). Great to have to different environments.
My cousin told me she thinks this broken engagement has made me stronger. Really?She said God knew he was a slickster and it was God who told me to get up that night and go to his house. She said God wanted me to see that it was all FAKE. The man gave me a ring and was still out cheating. She said I would have set-up a little fake family. Now that would be far worse than the pain I am in now. I could almost accept this if he never got down on his knee and proposed. If he never dedicated so much time to being with me. I never got crumbs. He had to be out in the wee hours of the morning humping someone else. We were together all the time. IF I ever meet someone how will I know if they are making a 2 am run to go XXXX someone?
If this is how you gain strength I don’t want it. This pain is like torture. I guess you can detect I am not having a great day and the day is just starting. Rehasing is NEVER GOOD. It is a waste of energy.
I have to pull out my notebook and read some positive things. I couldn’t workout this morning. Mentally just too much going on. I will read the article you sent.
I hope you have a great weekend. I need to go back to bed and start my day over.
MJ
Say Something,
I read the article you sent. It is really interesting. It made me think about a crime show I watched. A lady was married to a serial killer. This man actually treated her decent but at night he was out raping and murdering women. She had no idea. People can have a dark side.
And this is why we are stuck:
Our heart still yearns for what we have been persuaded, during the luring phase, was our one true love. Our minds are still filled with memories of the so-called good times with the psychopath.
Instead of thinking of the good times I need to focus on how this psychopath was out running the streets late at night. Dirty rat.
I liked this point in the article too:
healthy individuals may have good and bad parts of their personalities, but they don’t have a Jekyll and Hyde personality; a mask of sanity that hides an essentially malicious and destructive self. In a healthy relationship, there’s a certain transparency: basically, what you see is what you get. People are what they seem to be, flaws and all.
He hide behind a dark mask and when it all came out I realized I was dealing with a
Jekyll and Hyde personality. He is not healthy.
I hope I am delivered from this PAIN. Each day I strive for acceptance. I just need one day of PEACE. I wish you could have seen the life I use to live. Golden before him. I am trying to get that inner peace back.
I know you said you don’t like relating things to celebrities. This story really struck me. This lady was betrayed in the worse kind of way. Now she is living a beautiful life. She is focused on her business and looks fabulous. The best revenge is living well. This is how I take care of myself. I am capable of doing this if I just let go.
Look at her story. I think she is an inspiration. Now this is how you pull it together when life’s challenges bring you down. She cried for two years and look at her now.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2965977/I-caught-husband-cheating-trashed-100-000-Porsche-not-mention-laxatives-drink-cut-clothes-fought-tooth-nail-control-bra-company-MICHELLE-MONE.html
I am going to try to enjoy the weekend.
MJ
Hi Say Something,
I saw a great class I wanted to attend. It is near Judas’ house. I just cant go there.
Do you still feel the same way about not traveling near his house? I thought you had mentioned that. I just cant do it.
MJ
Hi MJ,
I am not a very religious person, but beyond that, I don’t like to think that bad things happen as an act of God. I think, in our cases, things happened because PEOPLE MADE CHOICES THAT NEGATIVELY IMPACTED OUR LIVES. And now it is up to US to heal and become stronger. I don’t think that a complete betrayal and rejection from someone that I deeply and completely cared for makes me stronger. I think it causes pain like I’ve never experienced, and leaves me with the choice to succumb or overcome. Your cousin, although she is probably well-intended, does not see any accountability or recklessness on behalf of your former “J” and I don’t agree. It’s much easier to go through life by explaining things away. I can’t and won’t do that.
Who knows what he was thinking when he proposed, MJ? He loved you in his way, but SOMETHING ISN’T RIGHT ABOUT HIM. Even though you are super loving with a heart of gold, something about him isn’t right. Not right enough for you, because if he was right for you, he’d BE WITH YOU. The ring, what did you do with the ring MJ? Please don’t cry. My wedding ring is in a wedding ring coffin.
Here’s an online story to keep you away! Last summer/fall I was chatting with an online guy. We exchanged numbers and then started texting. We agreed to let the other know if we met someone else, in that there would be no disappearing. (my idea but no guarantee) Anyhow, never a phone call or date, just casual texting for a couple months maybe. Then he said he met someone. I wished him well and thanked him for being upfront. Of course I was also thinking EU (texting only, over 40 and never married) but good looking and athletic. So ffwd to weeks later he texted that he’d like to stay in touch. Fine, I said. Maybe I’ll make a new friend? (FYI that has NEVER been the result) So then his father died and he texted me. I knew he was in hospice. I texted condolences and calming words. But WTF I don’t even know him. He started texting more often, called me beautiful and said he loves when the pic he saved of me (from online) pops up when I text. Whatever. One month later I finally responded by telling him to actually call me if he wanted to talk. HE DID. Then he called back, left a vm that he is going to call more. Ummm ok? So then he started asking about my schedule, coming to a thing of mine…. And as luck would have it, I was meeting family near him the next day. So the next morning I texted and asked if he wanted to meet for lunch… Just friends with no strings attached. We were an hour, maybe a tad more, away from each other, but this would be closer. We meet for lunch. We both have a burger and a beer. The bill was probably $30. He paid. During lunch I said, “so, tell me about your gf.” BTW, I had already Fb stalked them both because I looked him up on there by cell number. I disabled that feature on my account. Beautiful gf, glamorous, great body, singer, younger than me. Anyhow, he told me she was very “girly” but that she was “trying” (to fit into his sporty lifestyle). I have a story of a friend like that who married an outdoorsy athletic guy and they are together over 20 years later. He said they were still figuring out each other’s personalities. It had been 6-8 weeks maybe, can’t be too sure. But I had seen happy pics of them together. So lunch was over and he had a holiday party to attend with her. We walked to the parking lot, I gave him a christmas cookie, we exchanged a brief goodbye/ nice meeting you kiss. Then 5 min later he called. Wanted a longer kiss, blah blah. The next morning he was texting sexual innuendoes.
Him: So you wouldn’t want my company if the occasion presented itself?
Me: I think you’re way ahead of yourself. You have a gf and you just met me. But if what you’re looking for is someone to hook up w on the side, I am not that person.
Him: To commute on any regular basis would break me in no time anyway.
Me: Ok, well good to know that now. I AM glad to have met you though.
Him: Likewise 🙂
And I NEVER HEARD FROM him again. I checked their Fb pages yesterday and all pics of them together are gone, like it never even happened.
I have no interest in this guy, just wanted to share. No way was I going to be his HO on the side. I don’t want to be anyone’s side ho.
I want someone who is ON my side and BY my side.
MJ,
I read some. Long article plus I’m at work! I could almost look like her in that blue dress if I blonded up a bit and got a bit taller. And younger.
Anyhow, BGE lives 2 hrs away, but I have had to take detours to avoid being too close. I’ve been 20 minutes away and that bothers me.
I am sad right now as the Fri work day is almost over. Next weekend will be ONE YEAR from TLW and last time I ever saw him. It will be 8 months of NC. And I’m still hurting. Is the guy I saw at the end who he really is or is that just who he was to get rid of me when MOMENTS earlier we were laughing together? “This is what happens sometimes in dating. Killer, condescending, uncaring words.
“Healthy individuals may have good and bad parts of their personalities, but they don’t have a Jekyll and Hyde personality.”
Or was it just to get rid of me?
Say Something,
Happy Friday!! Yuck. I hate Friday. After working all week I should be embracing the weekend. Not. I went to the salon today (third time this week). I came out of the salon today not feeling good. Not even a pretty hair style lifted me today. Thank you for saying I have a heart of gold. I haven’t heard anything this nice in so long. Sad. Thank you. I am crying again. I truly hate weekends.
Story number two you had about online dating is another tough one. I am going to have to be my own dating agent. I do admire you for going online and trying. You have shared some funny stories and you keep trying. I like your investigative skills. I think it is smart to be aware of what is going on with someone who is trying to date you. You don’t want to be blindsided.
You said you look like the lady in the story. You are beautiful. I agree with what you said related to my cousin. I think her intent was just to try to make me feel good. This kind of pain has not strengthened me. It has torn my life to shreds. I started decorating one room today and could do no more. This weekend is tough for me. This is the weekend my Mom passed away. I am a mushy pea. By the way I purged the ring just like I did everything else. ANGER. RAGE. HURT. He disrespected me and it was my way of showing him a level of disrespect. It didn’t matter because the two of us didn’t ever have any real discussion again. Engaged and no explanation. It is not right. As you said something is wrong with him. Anyone who can detach like that and drive hours away to sleep around (while engaged) is a psychopath.
Once I caught him. He knew the trust was GONE. I think he figured I am busted. He attempted to tell me a lie via text about where he was. IT WAS OVER. Once I caught him that night I sent him a text that said he was a POS and I never wanted to c him again. I think your guy may have changed on you so quickly because he already had plans in mind about who he would start dating.
I want to share an article that I think is mind blowing. Please read this when you can just be quiet and really absorb this. This is about how to let go of the past. Consider asking your therapist about this technique discussed in the article. It is called the Rewind Technique.
The article reads as follows: If you have been traumatized and feel as if the past trauma is still very present for you, try to get help from someone skilled in the use of the Rewind Technique or a similar comfortable and fast-acting method that focuses on changing feelings rather than trying to work just on the thinking (cognitive) level.
Here is the link for the article: http://www.uncommonhelp.me/articles/let-go-of-the-past/
I pulled these to share with you.
http://tinybuddha.com/blog/10-tips-let-go-of-the-past-so-it-wont-anchor-you-dow/
http://www.lifehack.org/articles/communication/when-you-start-let-your-past-these-10-things-will-happen.html
By the way the books arrived today. I have The Four Agreements. I bought a bunch of books. I need the entertainment and I love to read.
This article is full of interesting ideas to make small changes in your life:
http://www.lifehack.org/articles/productivity/simple-3-week-plan-better-yourself-1-every-day-that-will-100-benefit-your-life.html
Thanks for being so supportive. I am going to watch movies. Let’s try to enjoy the weekend. I know it is tough for you with TLW around the corner.
Please let me know what you think about the uncommon help article. I know I gave you lots to read. If this is the only one you read please read this one.
MJ
Hi Say Something,
Thank you for the reminder about my triathlon. Today, was awful. Cramps and depression = slow moving. Sunday will be gym and day at the park. I m doing a massage and getting my mani/pedi in white.
Why did you stop watching tv? You must read a lot. So, you said he just changed and said he didn’t like sitting or going to restaurants? I read the article you sent. They are like magicians. They can change over night. They obviously never bond. They were raised by a pack of wolves. How will we ever know who to trust?
Congrats on hitting the treadmill. Thanks for the reminder about listening to music. Music is also healing. I haven’t been listening to the radio in the car. I stopped because after he pulled this crap -certain songs make me cry. I cant wait to hear why you cut out television. Did he say something to you about watching television? I need the company or I might go insane like someone in isolation (lol).
I am rethinking being social for right now. My attitude sucks. I need to pull myself together before being Ms. Social Butterfly. I don’t need another psycho. I don’t know what it is going to take to turn things around.
I saw a movie Whiplash and it made me think of Judas. The lead actor was pure evil. Manipulative. My take away from that is that if you allow it -the evil deeds of one evil person can destroy you. I refuse to let this wipe me out. This is grief and it is going to pass.
I am going to follow a couple of Sofia’s suggestions in another post and get a good night of rest. Have a beautiful Sunday.
This will not last forever. Hugs.
MJ
MJ,
Sounds like Mothers Day wknd will be rough for you. I am so sorry. Although I have my mom, she is completely EU, and I cannot talk to her about anything at all involving emotions. She and I are total opposites like that. I hope you have good memories. Fathers Day is like that for me.
I read the Rewind article and yes, I need to change my feelings. I’ll check out the other articles, and go back to that after I mow my lawn. I think I’m going to mow my lawn this morning. Sigh.
So I’m reading NML’s No Contact book and I think I’m in the depression stage. Maybe you too? I need to not care about BGE AT ALL. ANYMORE. EVER. This part of the book hit me, because I SO WANTED HIM TO CARE:
“Even tho NC allows you to regain your power and rebuild your life, you may feel depressed that you didn’t have enough power to have them come crawling back on their hands and knees in remorse, to make them change their ways, or even feel enough regret to try to break down your NC walls.
You may feel so much pain at the loss of the relationship or still feel like you’re drawn to them even if you’re not acting upon it and it may feel depressing because you really wish you didn’t feel like this.
This feeling can be especially difficult to deal with if on the face of it you recognise how toxic this person was and yet you still feel drawn them.”
I have no plans for today. I am sad. I am bored. I logged into the online dating site. Three new guys have contacted me. By contact, I mean they clicked a button. No effort. “click” and I get notified that they liked my photo or something. Just frickin lazy “click” is all. And while I was logged in, the porsche douche (oh, WITH a PhD in psychology) that I met last year AGAIN tried to IM me. Again, I ignored him. I still have his cell # if you want a trip to Florida, the Carolinas, all the places he says he owns property and wanted to take me. Lol. He constantly changes his location to three different places. When he first contacted me, it was FL and I’m in the northeast, but he has kingdoms all over the coast. Douche.
I wish I could see your decorating style. I am going to make a clean and purge effort again later today.
Positive thoughts, hugs, peace
Hi Say Something,
Very tough weekend. I am normally up working out early everyday. Not today. Very quite day. I had to pull myself together to let the guys deliver things to me today. I went out to grab food (curb side pick up). I am being lazy. As I read your note I am in agreement with you. I believe this is depression that I am experiencing. For sure.
I had to laugh about the guy you called a douche. Did you actually go out on a date with him? I think some of these men just lurk around on these dating sites to play games. I LOVE the idea to travel. IF I ever have a new beau I hope he loves to travel.
Someone tried to set me up on a blind date. He cancelled the first date. Big turn off. Then I got to see his photo. He called for a second date. I declined. No need to waste my time or his. The associate who wanted me to meet him said looks don’t matter he could be a travel buddy. No he can’t. LOL. I want to be attracted to the person I date.
If you could see how slow I am moving today I think you would definitely conclude I am depressed. I have been slowly decorating one little thing at a time and doing laundry. When I came up and read about you thinking about mowing the lawn it has given me a push to just keep doing the things I need to do. When my place is in order I feel so much better.
Maybe I need to stop watching depressing crime solving shows. They are a distraction. I like what you said about not thinking about your X anymore. Yes it would be great if you could forget him. Today, I wondered what Judas is doing with his life. I don’t think he is running around at the HO-tel anymore. No need to hide now that he no longer has a fiancé. Maybe he is engaged to her.
How do I shake this mood? I guess I just have to ride this out. I am bored and lonely too.
I really think you deserve better. I can tell from your posts here that you are a thoughtful and very caring person. When you are in love with someone you go all in just like me. When we do this it is so painful when things don’t work out.
Here is a big hug from me. If you were here we would go to dinner and a movie. Then we could go to a coffee shop and sit and talk for hours. Talking is therapeutic. Happy Mother’s Day pretty lady. Someone should be taking you to dinner.
Take a bow for all of your hard work raising your children when your x husband was MIA. You survived that. I know this is TOUGH but you gotta survive this too.
Talk to you soon. Your virtual support means so much to me. THANK YOU.
Hugs, MJ
Mary Jane,
Are you going to have a triathlon wknd? I mowed (half) the lawn and then ran another treadmill 5k. Better time: 36:32. My calf was starting to cramp, probably dehydration, but it didn’t go full spasm. Not sure if I’ll ever get under 30:00. In my mind, that’s the measure of “outdoor running worthy” and I am far from that. I’ll say tho, that I never thought I could get to where I am. While running I had my “badass” pandora station blasting in my headphones: linkin park, korn, disturbed…
Anyhow, sad day. I HATE that I wonder what he’s doing. I HATE thinking that it should be with me. I HATE that I care ONE LITTLE BIT. And yet I persist. But NC NC NC all the way.
Yes, I went out once with Porsche douche. Mistake based on how forward he was with me online and on the phone that was last summer. We met in public and then he was upset because I wouldn’t ride with him. I told him I was taking Xanax (I did for a few weeks then) thinking it would repel him. Anyhow, it was all about his braggy lavish lifestyle. Not a turn on. Just douchey. Plus no attraction on my part. Gotta have that.
I did laundry also and once again am ready to crash before dark. I love crime shows too: criminal minds, CSI, law and order, 48 hours. I could watch marathons. I have barely watched tv in the last year, partially due to feeling so awful and partly because of his aftermath email where he seems to point out how different we are: How quickly (in 3 months) he transformed. No drinking, sitting, tv, or restaurants! Then I read how psychopaths change their personas…
http://www.decision-making-confidence.com/mind-control-trick.html
“the psychopathic relationship is not real. The persona of the psychopath is manufactured. As far as the psychopath is concerned, there is no such relationship. He has simply manufactured it to manipulate you. He has told whatever lies necessary to convince you of one thing, while he is organizing something else.”
Yes, I will go “all out” for the right person. I’m basically all or nothing. If a guy is ehhh, I’m not going to date him at all. So that’s another reason why it was such a huge crash and burn.
I’ll spend mothers day traveling with my son for sports. And wishing things were different. For all of us. Someday we ARE going to talk over coffee. Until then, keep doing what makes you feel good. You said you were checking out some social options. Only stick with the ones you like. Save your caring for people who deserve it!
Hi MJ,
Not sure where to reply, so hope you see this one. The tv thing… Well last August I mailed him a letter. I expressed how I missed him, and wrote specifically about some activities we shared. His response, in which he also told me he was a big fan of me (WTF), how his life with me was “great” but how I didn’t know the REAL him; he doesn’t even drink; doesn’t go to restaurants; doesn’t watch tv; doesn’t even sit down. We had two series shows we watched together. There wasn’t much else to do during brutal winters at night in the middle of nowhere. Middle.Of.Nowhere. I didn’t even care because I enjoyed just spending time with him. But “that’s not him.” keep in mind, most of what we did together happened AT HIS HOUSE, on his planning. He never really planned anything. Never took me to a movie. No concerts. No parties. I’m the one who got concert tickets (he was gone by then) and I’m the one who took him to a Ted talk, to a craft beer place. He SEEMED to really enjoy my choices. I’m the one who made the assembled “beer can cake” for his bday, wrapped in ribbon with the beer he told me he liked. I saw several large bags of empty cans at his house. He never asked when my bday was. I’m the one who gave him books to read when he talked about wanting to do that. He still has them all.
Bottom line, his responses hurt me so much and made me feel like I’d done something wrong. I know in reality, I didn’t do or want anything abnormal. I’m not some huge drinking, tv watching, restaurant patronizing slouch. It was like he was trying to define me and “prove” that we were incompatible. Made up shit. But on some level it got to me. I’m the one in local athletic leagues. He’d been to my games, and always, always asked about them. But I just sit around and watch tv in his mind? He said it “felt like our lives were headed in different directions” but that made no sense either. We never discussed having different future plans. I thought we were working on “together”.
Maybe part of me felt like I had to prove to myself that he is wrong in what he is implying about me. I can have triathlon days and do more than he’ll ever do. Idk. I know it was hurtful reading his words. Claiming that he still cared, that he thought about getting in contact, and that he did miss me. But oh, it wouldn’t be fair to the girl he’s seeing now. And if he could see me, he’d give me a hug. He’d be sad if he never got to see me again. I should contact him when I’m out of this mindset. He’s a liar. If Judas said, “sorry MJ, umm I’d like to see you so I can give you a hug. I’m a big fan of MJ, and I hope you do well in life. I hope you contact me once you’re done being crazy (implied) and I DO miss you.” I bet you’d react like I am (still).
I need to take a shower, stop crying, and pack my bags. Enjoy your day of beautification!
Hi Say Something,
If Judas said those things to me I would point that MOFO to the nearest bridge and tell him to jump. The things he said to you make no sense. He knew you loved him and he was already seeing someone else. He is cruel. He just kept playing with your emotions down to the end.
From all the things I have been reading and what I hear from you about this ass I think he suffers from NPD. He did this whole thing of luring you in and then he started devaluing. Finally, when you were really hooked he discarded you (that night in the bed when you were crying). A real human doesn’t do someone like that.
He does not warrant anymore of your tears. But real humans have to grieve these kind of loses. Drive safely today.
I was up at the crack of dawn did two hours of cardio in the gym. At day break I hit the trails and did a 10 mile walk (took me 2.5 hours). So, I did over four hours of cardio. Let’s just call this cardio Sunday. Cause if I have one negative thought today I am going to do more cardio. I m o my way to spa, movies and then I am going to sit and read the newspaper. Today, it is full of high fashion, book reviews and exotic travel escapes.
I am going to take Sofia’s advice and end the day with a message from Joel Osteen. I need something really positive. The cardio today has not allowed me to think of anything too bad.
This cardio is like a pill. My mind is clear. In fact crystal clear. I feel pretty good. I may have some blisters from the walk. LOL.
Don’t allow this fool to change everything about you. If you really like to watch television do it. He didn’t have any major activities to do with you. Sounds like he just wanted to sit on the sofa. Don’t allow him to shake your confidence. I can tell with the planning that you cared about him. We gotta let go.
Think happy thoughts and try your best to have a peaceful day. Hugs.
MJ
Hi MJ,
Great job on the super cardio workout, and clearing your mind. I had hours of driving today, and that always causes my mind to wander and ruminate – yuck. I know exactly what you mean about the radio, and Natalie’s podcasts are a good replacement.
I can’t watch the two shows we watched. Never again and I miss that too. I looked forward to that. We watched them together exclusively. When I mentioned missing that, he claimed to not even watch tv. He would say “don’t watch it without me”… Yeah. I wonder if he has ANY sense of how cruel he was. Either of them. Well, if they acknowledged ANYTHING, that would mean facing responsibility and feelings. So we work through it. We keep working through it.
Thank you for listening to me. And understanding. And caring. There’s some info in the NC book that I need to look at again and mention later when I’m not so tired. We made it through the weekend… Next weekend will be rough.
I have a seriously unhealthy issue with this, it is so embarrassing, and here I am bringing it here. I actually do this with someone who I am not even friends with!!! It is someone with whom I work alongside, and we do not get along. Her personality is very strong and over bearing – she tells it like it is – where as I, miss nice guy, sugarcoats most things and avoids confrontation like the plague I only tell it like it is if conditions are exactly right for me…code for I must feel sure that I will still be accepted even if I speak my mind. And – and this is always hard for me to stand up and say – though she has a lot of respect in our business, is good at her job, has lots of friends, not everyone likes her, and she cam be a very mean and nasty person. There! I said it! Why is it so hard for me to admit someone isn’t nice to me? This is a deep thing I think, have to do with facing confrontation, and self esteem, standing up for myself, etc – but I digress. Though the fact that we really don’t like each other was established a long time ago, we have worked along side each other for about 5 years, and we were work colleagues. however as time passed, one day – about 2 years ago – she told me exactly what she thought of me. some things that were bugging her, and though some of the things she said rang true, part it was not, and she was really really nasty about it. And I know this is because I allowed her to walk on me, and I now have a name for some of this behavior as fall back girl behavior, if I am using the jargon right, She could smell my weakness, my feeling of inferiority, and just went for it. Prior to this announcement I cared so much of what she thought of me because I thought it important that we be friends because of the nature of our business, we work alongside each other, and well of course because I want everyone to like me. Since her announcement to me apprx 2 years ago, it has been a personal hell for me. I too have my own strongish personality – I’m a funnygirl and love to laugh at work, I am well liked…but inwardly at work I am like a shrunken violet, if that is the right phrase. I am so insecure when she is around, and I have to work so hard for this not to show. And lets face it, I am sure, more often than not, that it does show. It really sucks. Before I go into work I give myself a pep talk, and when I leave, I have to council myself again. Thank god we work by appt and not 8hr shifts!
I have let this situation affect my life, my livelihood, my performance in my job, my well being…I even no I am not as successful in my business because of this….and it all me, I know!! I am addressing this obviously. I have only one friend in my life who knows about this, and they know very little. Which makes it even more sick. The situation here has also made it very hard for me to make friends, as the nature of our business is very holistic and carries into personal life. This is the place I established myself when I first moved to this area 7 years ago. Normally when we are at work with our clients and other colleagues we all talk with each other as we work, but she and I have no interaction, She established that. On several occasions, my clients have either eluded to or asked straight up what was wrong, and I give a very neutral answer, because beyond that I would be talking behind her back. Meantime her clients also sense this – I am sure she has probably told some of them – and so there is this awkwardness there. It sounds so childish,but words really can’t express how awful it is.
This is going to sound funny, but it is actually getting better. Not the situation, but me. Slowly. I think she thought that I would go away, but I have not. Believe me, I have wanted to – I have looked at this from lots of angles. But I am established there also. I think it might be healthier for me to be someplace else, but this is the most convenient place for my client s to get to, and there are other factors as well. All financial pretty much. So, the fact that I haven’t gone away, has taken it’s toll in the ways I have already mention. But because I am staying – at least right now – I have had to, and continuer to strive for ways to make it better for me. The improvement has very little,but it’s there, It still sucks, I need help with, I know. Writing here is a step. It feels very embarrassing. Anyway, this is turning more into a journal entry than a post, so I am going to stop here. I am going to go back and read all about what others wrote in response to this post – I am sure I will learn something.
T
@T: I have been in a similar situation and unfortunately the bottom line was that that female colleague represented aspects of my mother that I hadn’t seen because I had idealised her. To cut it short, I had a decent relationship with my mother in my young adulthood but through the uncomfortable situation and subsequent fights with said colleague I recovered some memories of my mother basically wanting to get rid of me when I was very little. It’s not that I had exactly forgotten how nasty she was, I had just covered it with the more pleasant and recent memories. So the conflict with the colleague basically unearthed the truth. Good luck, V.
OMG, yes, yes, yes!
My problem is trying to get friends to think the same way.
Thanks for this.
Lenny and all,
I have struggled with this feeling too in the past. Recently I had it put to the test so to speak. Perhaps this incident was to signify, am I really capable of unconditional love and what does it mean? I concur that first one has to love oneself more than anyone else. During this test I could feel myself waffling between giving myself up to someone else’s manipulations and holding myself steady in my self love. This site was very helpful in providing that external locus of control for me. I’ve spent hours reading and reinforcing and meditating!
Gradually, I could feel that how this person acted to me was not right. It was hurting me. My dilemma then was to react in anger, hurt, pain and meanness right back at him and going against my belief system or to take the bigger picture and not be bothered by his reaction. After all his reaction doesn’t have to require the same from me.
Several stories and teachings helped me. First, my goal is to be love. Wow, how to get there with all these weirdos in the way!
One story concerns a scorpion who offered to take the mouse across the river. The mouse said, “Oh sir, you will sting me and I’ll die.” The scorpion smiled his most friendly smile and said, “Oh, but you want to get across this river and I can take you.” “Well, Ok,” said the mouse. Whereupon the scorpion promptly stung him and he died. One of two people watching said, “That is the nature of the scorpion.”
Hopefully you get my drift in this shortened version.
The second is a song called “The Immortal Song,by Chitrabhanu.
In part it says, May the sacred stream of amity flow forever in my heart..my heart sings at the sight of the virtuous and may my life be an offering at their feet……heart bleeds at the sight of the wretched, cruel…and may tears of compassion flow from my eyes……may I always be there to show the path to the pathless wanderers of life… . . .YET IF THEY SHOULD NOT HARKEN TO ME, MAY I BIDE PATIENTLY. ( I would add and go about my own business.)
To me this means exactly what Nat and all these others say about NC, keep away etc.
We don’t have to give up on being love, we don’t have to react in harshness or against our own gentle nature.
The third story I have is from another of my most respected teachers, Molly the Owl. Some may rememember her as part of the videoed owl family from San Marcos, CA.
One day Molly was out taking a break leaving the 4 owlets alone in the box. When she tried to return, a giant hawk was trying to attack the box with cries of war. She fought to get in and arrived to her very disturbed babies and her own upset feelings. The hawk left in defeat. She stood in the front of the box, feathers shaking violently. The babies were shaking too and tried to peck at her in their distress. I was surprised to notice that she didn’t try to scold them for pecking at her. She stood by patiently until they all quieted down then she gathered them all under her wings once again.
And some say animals are just wild creatures!!
Hopefully this is helpful, it certainly is helping me.
Thank you Mistea1, you make a very fine point that others’ treatment or opinions isn’t the reason to force the not so good change in yourself, going from sincere person to game playing bi*ch etc. Healthy self love rules!
Thank you to all!!! I love this site and you guys for the insight. It keeps me grounded in reality instead of heading off to what if land. I actually only got those truths from him toward the end because he was in the hot (chase) phase and I demanded answers and he is sort of stupid. But I was rationalizing that because he told the truth that some how that meant he was getting emotionally honest. But I know that if the only time someone tells the truth is when they are losing you, it’s not an honest relationship.
It makes me feel so much better that others have been through the exact same thing! also that you all validated my saying no and opting out, I was totally sure of myself until he broke contact and tried to get me back, so thank you for backing up my instincts. Its funny how you can know something to be true and still not want to do it, until your back in it and saying to yourself, oh ya, this sucks, that’s why I should have trusted myself. But I don’t need to do that this time. Thank you!!!!
It’s like how negotiation works. You have to be prepared to walk away from the deal…
This is so funny because this is the exact thing that happend with the ex-EUM! When I stopped caring and treated him with indifference his whole demeanor changed. He no longer had any power and he realized I could see through his b.s. He would distance himself when I didn’t react the way he expected me too. Then he would keep trying to get a reaction from me that would put him in his comfort zone and I just wasn’t budging. I set my boundries and he could no longer break them. I honestly believed he knew he started to lose his luster with me. He even up the ante by talking about having a relationship after he left me for someone else, disappeared and reappeared acting like everything was okay. I acutally think he thought I like him soooo much that I would overlook his behavior
I feel that when he couldn’t pull the wool over my eyes anymore, I became less appealing to him. In turn he continued talking to the woman he was seeing while checking in to see if I “changed my mind yet”!! It’s funny because even after a year in the half of no contact he still called with the same b.s. and the only thing I could do was wish him well, laugh and hang-up the phone.
Stephanie
The ex AC behaved exactly the same as your ex EUM after I dumped him.
He still tries to check in with a text every now and again even though it’s been 3 years since I broke up with him. I check my spam folder occasionally and there he still is. He even sent me a text from a new number this past Xmas. I just laughed and blocked that number too. I can’t understand why he still tries to get a rise out of me. Weird.
This post is excellent, particularly the inset about presenting the person who has enjoyed the fringe benefits with facts, indifference, and resistance – they have to move away from you/keep their distance.
One of the beautiful things about this website is: you can recognize yourself/them and this dynamic when you’re deep into it – and you can also recognize the signs early and PULL OUT before you hate each other.
In my case, I took a step back from someone after four months of dating due to signals that he is EU. I went NC to heal (thanks BR!) and I have so much more perspective now. The other day, I was thinking back and I had that “What were you thinking?” kind of moment – teasing myself about all the (now obvious) signs that this really was doomed from the start but I gave it my best effort. Admirable, given how little (it turns out) this guy had to offer me.
Anyway, we recently decided to continue with our friendship. We do run into each other regularly because of a shared local hobby that’s fairly uncommon, a small scene. We’d already parted amicably (thank you BR for showing me the light!) so I felt this was possible.
There are ways to use their EU indecisiveness and laziness to your advantage if you have to interact with them for some reason. Taking the time to heal is what makes it possible – it’s been more than two months and it’s clear he is (sadly) the same as where I left him. He still tried to make me his armchair therapist and so *poof* FB messenger is off for him indefinitely. He’s playing nice with me on email but says he hopes we hang out soon. Instead of jumping on the hint, I ignore it. Public, local, group hobby events will be our “hanging out,” my friend. I now see how much of our connection was dependent on me doing a lot for him… and now that I won’t, his lack of initiative is so obvious.
Personally, it’s satisfying to remember how I would have reacted in the past when we were dating and how comfortable I am *NOT* overgiving anymore. He’s tried his old shit and he gets my ::crickets:: (silence) and that doesn’t bother me at all. When our paths cross, I feel relaxed and calm and happy because I have fully embraced that his lack of understanding about what he wants, who he is, his lack of effort is about him, not me. Boundaries are a wonderful thing. Thanks BR!
“When you’re caring to that level where they have the power to make or break you, this sense of caring about them is a mirror that’s showing you that you’re not caring enough about you.”
I wish it was so easy as to just let someone go when its obvious they don’t care about you. It’s been more than two years since we’ve connected with each other. But whenever I have doubts about anything, I think of him. I know that I continue to be attached because I still seek validation from him. This is so painful, how can someone have so much influence on me, when I don’t even exist to them. How do I take my power back? How do I let go of this?
Hi Chickpea… sorry to hear you’re having a hard time. I hate that feeling of, “I need this person to feel xyz about me” or “I need them to do xyz” to feel better. It’s the worst.
One of my friends has this great exercise she suggested to me and I found it helpful in my healing. She said, “Michelle, imagine you’re in a field and it’s full of flowers and the sun is out and it’s a gorgeous day. Step into the field and imagine that you’re meeting yourself five years from now. She greets you, hugs you, smiles… and what does she tell you about this situation?”
I find it powerfully healing to imagine myself five years from now, so beyond this guy and his opinion of me. I offer it in case it helps you too! Hang in there!
Michelle, this future me is the exact thing I need to think about to help me not go back right now, Thank you!!
Thanks for your support, I will try that!
This article really resonated with me. It was unbelievable. I tolerated such terrible, terrible treatment from my ex in order to “win” in the end. He was cheating on me with multiple women and we really were all competing with each other to be the chosen one. I don’t know why I allowed myself to ignore the blatant disrespect of repeated infidelity and instead, was fixated on who he decided to be with. My self esteem was completely wrapped up in his actions. It is just so sad to think back about how much hell I allowed him to put me through, all the humiliation I suffered and how incredibly unhappy my life was. I remember reading posts from Natalie back then and how they helped me. I can’t go back and erase all of the misery. But I can make much smarter choices in the future and because of that, I feel like there is still hope.
Jennifer,
Forgive yourself. Love yourself. There is now HOPE for a better future. I am sure it is tough emotionally but be glad that it is over and you see it for what it is.
MJ
Jennifer, you sound so good now. How long ago was this? How did you begin to move on from him?
Jennifer, he was “triangulating” you. You felt miserable and he was in heaven. A lot of men do this and it’s disgusting.
when I started to call him out on all the BS he was feeding me, he dumped me. 2 months has gone by, and with basically zero contact, I see I /we were the poster people for all NML talks about. I’ve seen him around doing nothing but trying to act like a twenty year old when he is forty. I saw it all but just didn’t know I had the power, the value, the worth to change it. I am still learning, but gratefully, I wont EVER have to live like that again.
Lisa, may I disagree with you on this one? 🙂 You say you did not know you have the power, the value and the worth to change it. BUT YOU DID. You did change the situation. Yes, he bailed out when YOU called on his BS. But it was your call. And you’ve reclaimed your power. Maybe it took you longer than you’d have liked, or you feel like you wasted too much time on that person. But, this is a story of your WIN, not your failure. You RECLAIMED the power. Yes, he dumped you but you WON by him doing that. And, again, you opened both your eyes and his (well, he was unlikely to see it but that’s another topic) to the BS.
Don’t tell this to yourself as a story of your failure or the loss of power. Tell it to yourself as a story of victory and reclaiming your power over BS. Because it is.
Hear, hear!
I so belong in this group. Thanks Natalie for your blog.
Ive been obsessing on a guy for the past month. He is just another one of the many in my pattern of un-available-s. this pattern started so long ago. I remember the crushes I used to develop as a teenager and how I used to feel so high when some cute guy/man/someone gave me attention. and how its continued….
Here is just one quote that resonated with me out of the many…
“It’s not that you need to stop caring about others and you definitely don’t need to give up on trust and any positive qualities but what you do need to learn through being more boundaried, is where to invest your goodness. Roll back when you are not experiencing a mutual relationship. ”
it so painful to realize I am sharing my goodness with someone who doesn’t seem to want it. When this happens, I tend to try and then push myself on them. These days, its by continuing to text or show up at their place of work (its a public café,) expecting/wanting something in return.
the lesson I continue to learn with all this is to be more choosy and discerning at the beginning and to take time before I let someone in.
I like how you said in another post or maybe one of your books, to imagine an electric fence around you. Basically, I need to strengthen my boundaries and take a stand for my worthiness and roll back when im not getting at least a mutual reciprocal connection back my way.
thanks for all of your posts and thanks for everyone’s shares.
its so helpful.
Natalie, I cannot tell you how helpful your site has been. I have been visiting daily for a few weeks. I’m trying to do NC with a very EUM ex-boyfriend. I know better, I’m 40 years old…and yet, I am completely wrecked over this guy even though we only dated for a short while. He was a complete future faker and while I was skeptical at first, I allowed myself to fall for all the B.S. and made constant excuses for him after all of the love and affection he showered me with abruptly STOPPED all at once after only 2 months! I’m ashamed to say that I let him off the hook, made excuses, took his crumbs, for another 4 months after. 🙁 I’ve come to realize that I’m addicted to the drama. Our brain makes neuropathway connections and, regardless of whether they are healthy or not, it becomes a literal addiction and difficult to change these connections to healthier pathways in a physiological sense (!!!). I began NC last week and bawled every day because I wasn’t receiving the attention from him that I’m addicted to. He finally called on Day 5 and I got swept right back up in communicating with him. I’m starting again today. I am healthy, beautiful, strong, smart and deserving. My friends are absolutely at their wits’ ends with me because really, I should know better. Am I that afraid of being alone??? I guess I am. Perhaps some of you wonderful people can tell me how to begin to build boundaries and values? I grew up in an alcoholic home, am very co-dependent and have a past of being EU myself. The minute someone treats me the way I should be treated, I’m bored (again, addicted to the drama). Reading these posts and all of the comments is saving me. I have tears in my eyes as I say that because it’s true. Blessings to all of you!!!!
dee, if I may, get “Getting Past Your Break Up” by Susan Elliot. It’s a very no BS book that was recommended here. She describes her situation that has changed her life when her husband left her with 3 kids and no job in sight. But the book is not about her. It’s a solid plan on what to look for within your self, about boundaries and what to look forward in the future.
During all the time reading it (I am on the last pages now), I realized it’s exactly the kind of thing I missed growing up with my EU mother. What is ok and what is not? What do you tolerate in a relationship and what not? I feel like a child because of this.
I saw that someone said here recently that Nat and BR changed their life and I had tears in my eyes (and I am not a cryer at all) when I realized that it is 100% true for my life too. The support, the tough love, recommendations and wisdom here is unbelievable.
What you say about addiction is very true. My therapist told me the very same thing about my struggle. The book actually explains it with “nature abhors vacuum”. When the EUM relationshit dissipates you have to fill it in with some quality activities and self-love. Which many of us have no idea how to give or what they look like (including myself here).
Thank you Why.
I see everywhere ‘trust your instincts!’ and ‘trust your intuition!’ but I feel like growing up the way I did, I didn’t ever learn HOW to trust my own feelings, so it’s very hard to know where to start. I will get the book! xo
Susan Elliott’s book turned my life around 180 degrees. I threw out all toxic people from my life.
Why, This really resonated with me “I realized it’s exactly the kind of thing I missed growing up with my EU mother. What is ok and what is not? What do you tolerate in a relationship and what not? I feel like a child because of this.” As I am becoming more aware (awake), I am realizing how child like I am in some ways. I just ordered this book as well and appreciate the recommendation.
Dee,
First take a deep breath! You will be fine, we all have been there and know what you are feeling. Believe it or not you have started your healing process by looking at yourself and not just making this about him. I learned that many times we hold on to these toxic relationships because of our own issues. The EUM only trigger those issues. Acknowledging that you have issues is a major step because you start your soul searching process.
The next step is continue with your no contact because the EUM is only going to cause you further pain. If necessary, seek some therapy to deal with these issues if you don’t think you can do it on you own. Things will get better, I promise you!!
Thank you Stephanie. Like NML has said in other posts, the problem ends up being us looking for these EUMs and ACs to validate us. This is simply the ego at its finest, i.e. ‘How dare HE not want ME?’ I’ve been through far more serious and fulfilling and complex and deep relationships and break-ups, and am SO DISAPPOINTED in myself for letting this guy get under my skin. I truly feel like I’m losing my mind sometimes.
I know things will get better! And I know there are good men out there. I know I should not just settle and try to mold a really attractive, seemingly cool/fun person into the man I *want* him to be. He’s just not! It all feels so shallow and ridiculous, but then again I know shaming myself isn’t going to help. I so appreciate you taking the time to reach out. xo
@Dee, growing up in an alcoholic home (alcoholics are by nature EUM) you are probably very accustomed to that teeth-pulling feeling of TRYING to get someone to give you the love/attention you deserve. So when you feel that feeling with someone, you associate it with love. I grew up in a similar environment, and I know that “teeth pulling” feeling very well. I have a tendency to go for guys who are somewhat aloof, shy, “mysterious” and inspire me to “pull” them towards me — because of course that is what I grew up doing with my parents. It feels comfortable, familiar, and like “love.” My struggle has been to feel comfortable around men who don’t give me that feeling because they are already “there.” It’s something I’m still working on.
Diane, thank you for writing this. My biological father was an alcoholic too. And although I understood that he was not present..well..ever, I did not connect this with “teeth pulling”. I just wanted him to disappear. But what you say is very interesting. And something I can definitely relate to. My mother is deeply EU. But your comment made me realize that both my parents instilled this association “anxiety and having to prove you are worthy of love and perform -> love”. This is also something I am trying to catch myself doing (stop performing and think “hey, but do I actually like HIM?” and also AVOID all men who breed competition (you compete with their job, their schedule, their exes, the women they brainwash into “possible” girlfriend/wife material, their family etc) and AVOID all uncertainty and anxiety inducing relationships (not the normal nervousness but the real anxiety. when they don’t call or disappear and all that classic AC vocabulary).
Why, this rings so true. I don’t want to blame my parents but especially with my dad it’s all about proving worth. 🙁 He grew up in an abusive/alcoholic household too, cripes are we all doomed? LOL…
When I try NC with ex-EUM, he sulks and pulls this ‘poor me’ routine, sending a text saying “I’m sorry if I’m bothering you…” I tell him not to contact me until he can be straight and honest about what he wants from me, so I’M the bad guy. Then I want to cave and text him a little heart or a little kiss. Blech. I’m fed up with myself!
(I meant ex-EUM when I said ‘he grew up in an abusive/alcoholic household too,’ although…my dad did too!)
Exactly Diane. How can I ‘know’ what I never learned??? (lightbulb moment) It’s really hard. And yep, I gravitate toward EU men because it feels comfortable! So hard to put the brakes on your initial feeling to ask, ‘Do I even like him?’ Again…learning to trust my intuition…how????
To be honest, I DIDN’T like ex-EUM when I first met him! I really didn’t! Why didn’t I trust my gut? I remember thinking, ‘He’s weird, I dunno, something seems off…’ but he pulled me in with his attention and put me on a pedestal….and I LOVED it! Now I”M the one putting HIM on one. Blech. 🙁
@Dee, you are here, so you already have taken the first step towards healthier habits. And they do become habits, just like being with an EUM is a habit you learned from when you were little. Your brain has been wired one way, and now you have to rewire it. The first step is to keep reading Nat’s blogs. Any time you have a question, put a key word in the search engine, she will have a post on it. Read and re-read, and when you are weak, read again. I also recommend reading “Men Who Can’t Love,” “Bad Boyfriends: Using Attachment Theory to Avoid Mr or Ms Wrong,” and “He’s Scared, She’s Scared.”
You may go through a period where you are hyperalert and put major walls up and won’t let anyone through — but eventually those start weakening a bit, and then you are left with strong boundaries, but with an open heart/mind (but not TOO open!). This is when you might meet the right person, as many on this board have (I have not yet), however, even if you don’t, believe me, you will be a much happier person!!
Dee, my story is the exact same as yours, in my 40’s and EUM is a good looking guy who seems sweet and shy and I feel totally superficial for still wanting him. I have more depth than that, but somehow his desire for me pulls me in due to such validation. And this time he came in and said he wants to marry me, wow that is a mind f@#$, because I’m questioning, well maybe he is for real, maybe he will actually act like it this time. And he DOES act like it, when he wants to (mostly for sex) but then when he is busy or is on I have her, so I don’t need to chase mode, he can be so rejecting. It’s not shallow to want to believe what someone is saying. Nearly anyone would be tempted by someone who acts like they love you. The hard part is remembering all the little lies that they told because that is what you wanted to hear, so that is what they said without meaning it. He did not mean it, is my mantra to keep away, but it’s still hard. Anyway, your not alone.
Dee take a deep breath and let it out and again – YOU ALREADY KNOW WHAT YOU NEED TO DO BUT YOU ARE CHOOSING NOT TO LISTEN TO YOURSELF and WHEN YOU DON’T LISTEN TO YOURSELF YOU CHOOSE TO USE IT TO BEAT YOURSELF UP.
The Lose lose situation is what keeps the addiction going and you have to break it for a new addiction – to only do things that will make you genuinely feel good. Try it for a day, then build it up.
When you listen and act on it – it will all come good – allow yourself like a toddler learning to walk to make a few trips here and there – without beating yourself up – you are a good person – nobody is perfect – you deserve a better life than this – you are at the start of the best adventure of your life – to find and fall in love with yourself.
I wish you lots of love and happiness – good luck.
8 2 as in this type relationship with my X narcissist, sadist, harem master, lier, cheater. KARMA!! Yesterday he was arrested for assaulting his daughter’s boyfriend and went to jail and next is criminal trial. He broke into the guys house and attacked him with a cattle prod and threatened to cut the d off. This story is now going Nationwide and on tv. Google: cattle prod, Bellingham WA. Lol….
@AngelFace, is this him too? http://badboyreport.kr/2012/05/vincent-p-jones-is-a-liar-cheater-narcissist-un-diagnosed-aspergers-sadist-vincent-jones-2/?ckattempt=1
Okay girl. To be honest, I don’t care if you publish this comment or not. I just want you to know that (aside from the MYRIAD of other reasons that I LOVE this blog and this post in particular)as a fellow writer, I love that you put “BS” in quotes after “bullshit.” You are just the queen of everything in my mind, girlfriend, and I just love you to bits and pieces.
Love,
Revs
Ugh. I’m drinking. I meant, not quotes, but parens.
This post has come at just the right time for me. I’ve been friends with this guy for over 10 years, neighbours and our children were good friends too. Then his marriage was failing, I was there for him as a friend and one day he confided how he felt towards me, that he was in love with me and had been for several years. I was surprised but felt the same, we got on so well, have similar likes, views and all seemed good. Now, after eighteen months of his very messy divorce, him having to leave the marital home and still being controlled by his ex, I waited for him to do the things he said we would. Hahaha let down or what!! I lost my mum in December after a very short illness and he was very supportive, but then he wasn’t I was gutted and so I stepped away. He contacted me again and asked for another chance, “I’ll always be there for you if you need me” he said, but nothing came of it, so I did the no contact again. Then just last week he contacted me, why did I allow myself to be sucked back in? I contacted him a few days later to talk as I was struggling with the loss of my mum……no answer. I text him to say how hurt I was that he hadn’t replied and we got into a text argument and he said that he couldn’t be there for me as he has too much on (his mum has been placed into a home as she has dementia) and he’s “not a one-man army”.
I’ve been left feeling a complete fool for allowing this man to get under my skin, for allowing myself to care so much for him that I didn’t see that he didn’t care that much for me. I know texting is a crap way of communicating but it was the only way to that day.
Right now I feel like I’m grieving for both my mum and him…..aaaarrrrrgggghhhhh!!!
Jackie, him = anxiety, mum = grief.
Your anxiety is helping to distract you from your grief. This grief has a time stamp, that first year after a loss is important, its important to not make big decisions that first year because we are very very vulnerable and lost. It helps to be open to processing the grief, and not distract yourself. I think I also took up with an EU after my parent died. Its messy stuff. When you need someone to share, get online, call a friend, call your siblings, your mum’s friends, other friends that have lost a parent and can help you. Dont contact him. Because by contacting such an emotionally empty man, you are willingly making a choice to be unfulfilled about your grief.
Anyway, if you need to grieve him, do. To help, I will say, man is an idiot. Childish, immature, unable to deal with whatever he’s going through. Maybe he’s a great guy, reeling into EU passive aggression through grief – then he’s doing it on your time and you deserve better. Or he’s just an idiot, always was. He’s desperate at the loss of his marriage and quickly proclaimed love. You are grieving an idiot.
I share your sadness about your mum. It is a universal grief, to lose a parent. It is something essential to us as humans, I felt very connected to something much deeper, truer, in the face of death because this is one of our core emotional lessons and challenges in life. To face that.
I just wanted to warn everyone that Mercury in Retrograde is happening or something, and that your ex might contact you. I don’t believe in this stuff, but oddly, every time there has been a MIR, my ex-EUM contacts me, and he did again last night. I hadn’t spoken to him since January, except for a few short emails dealing with a package of mine that had been sent to his place by mistake. When he contacted me last night out of the blue (saying he had found an old email of mine and how “funny” I was) I told my friend, who told me it was all down to astrological shenaningans — beware of the stars! 🙂
“If only I wasn’t being myself, I might win over someone that treats me like shit”
This is an old comment from Nat on the “One shot” post. This is EXACTLY how I used to think (and still fall down that hole sometimes) with people care too little for me. And seems like many of us can relate to this pattern of thinking.
If only I stopped needing him to respond to my questions about what exactly his promise meant, if only I stopped having expectations and jumped right on his “I just wanna be positive and inspired” train of depth and planning, if only I stopped being bothered by him drip feeding me information, if only I stopped caring he’s having unprotected sex with his gf and then asks the same of me, if only I could try need less. *head explodes*. God, this website is so so amazing and keeps me so sane. I can’t believe I was seriously trying to twist myself into that much of a pretzel. And guess what, it did not work either! They treat you like shit now, and if you get to “win” them (whatever that is), you’re only gonna get more of the same shit.
Thanks but no thanks.
Hi everyone!
This site has been a real ‘godsend’ for me, I wish I had discovered it 15 months ago when my divorce was finalised (well on paper)……. Because in the past 15 months I have gone from ‘high on life to be free of ex-EUM husband’ to missing him so terribly that I would cry myself to sleep when ‘dating’ this random rebound guy (I know I learnt my lesson and ended it after a couple of months when I realised that I am so not ready), to a full-blown depression (of which I am currently trying to get out of) due to the fact that ex-EUM decided to BEG me back….
I wish I had taken the no-contact rule from start of our divorce, the only thing ‘positive’ I did was move away to a different country to get away from him and his hot/cold and emotional rages. We were together for 9 years, and married 4 years of which the last 3 years were simply a roller-coaster ride for me.
I think he might have some borderline personality traits, having a very EU mother who abused him (physically) from age 0-13. Then he also had intense anger management issues, would shout and scream at me (and I am a conflict-avoidance type of person) so I would just go quiet and take all the verbal abuse (which I now was the exact wrong thing to do). Because he would then storm off and leave the house and come back in the evening with a ‘sheepish’ look on his face saying sorry and he saw ‘red’.
Now in hindsight I should have not accepted all these red flags (which were there from start) but I was sooooooo in-love and I am such a people pleaser/Fixer type of person that I just thought: ok, you can fix it he says he loves you and you are his everything and he has no one in the world but you, so you can be strong for him. He has so many issues with his dysfunctional family and himself. No one can fix it for him. I know that now.
My family never liked him, and found him hostile. He didn’t like them either and he used to blame them for a lot of the problems in our relationship saying that if ‘my parents’ would be more supportive he would be able to see a future with me (this is AFTER we have gotten married).
There were so many hurtful words and emotional outbursts that in the end I was fed up with his behaviour. He had isolated me from my family, because when I did see them he would get upset that I would spend time with them and yet he would not want to come and would tell me: why should I want to be with them who has disrespected me? Then the next day he would be all sweet and declare his undying love for me. I never knew when he was going to be in happy or depressed mood. His mood swings were undpredictable. And he would blame me for it sometimes, saying that since I am not a ‘sex addict’ as him and since I am so boring he gets bored with me and depressed.
During our marriage he left me two times, once in 2011 for 3 months (to his homecountry and travelling to Thailand) to think about whether he can ‘cope’ being married. He came back and I took him back, then he said no he wants a divorce in 2012 and decided to leave (again back to his homecountry and travelling around Europe) for 4 months. I told him I will sell our marital home because i dont want to stay there after our divorce, When the house sale is almost finished he decided he wants me back.
This time I tell him are you sure, he says he CAN’T IMAGINE being away from me for 1 day! Wherever I go he will come. And as I had planned a 10 months trip around the world (quit my job to get away from daily grind and try to get my head around being single after all my dreams of family and husband had been shattered by him), he says he will come to the end of world with me. I a super happy and he joins me in the travels, he says he wants to forge a new relationship with my family too. He has seen that his old ways were hostile and not welcoming so we decide after the trip is ended we should visit them and have a ‘family meeting’.
5 months into our trip – he has another one of his rages (he used to have them regularly before, but they had subsided or so I thought) and for 2 hours in the streets of Argentina he hurls insults at me. When I try to leave he tells me I am selfish to not want to ‘fix our relationship’. I am just at loss, I tell him if I am so difficult ‘to live with/love’ then maybe we should go our separate ways. He says he wants to leave immediately (our tickets were for another 5 months)and as he never had any credit cards I tell him he can use my credit card to get his ticket back. He storms off, comes back in the evening to the hostel and tells me he loves me too much to leave me by myself travelling in South America. He can’t have that on his conscience. Instead he says he will travel as a friend.
We continue a very awkward and at time very emotionally taxing travel for 5 months, where he is so cold and distant and even ‘acts out’ a couple of times getting so drunk that he loses his passport. Basically for me it was the worst emotional roller coaster in my life (or so I thought at the time).
When we are back home in 2013, I decide I need to leave and do some healing work. I go to see my sister in Australia and then after wards I come back, he meets me and we are intimate for the first time after his rejection during our travels. I tell him, this wont change anything. We are still divorcing and he says he cant believe that we are divorcing. ANd I say yes, but you know why. You told me so many times over the past 3 years that you cant see a future with me or children. I leave 2 months later in Jan 2014 to Far East to work.
What my biggest mistake was to keep in touch with him on the phone and text while I was in Far East last year. I cried every other night and missed him terribly, but also I cried for the loss of my dream of a family with him (he had also done the future faking with me whenever he wanted me).
Then when I start to feel better last summer, I stop calling and texting. He notices this and starts making an effort, even asks me for money (which I am foolish enough to give) because he is setting up a restaurant and he doesn’t have enough.
Then as I start dating a rebound guy, my ex-EUM husband calls me and tells he needs to tell me before it gets too late.
He has CHANGED! He wants all that I want. A proper wedding (we never had one since he didn’t want to spend the money) and marriage and kids and the whole thing. I didn’t believe him. I told him it won’t work, we tried in the past. He kept changing his mind during our marriage and I cant see how all the past issues have all of a sudden disappeared? He told me oh he has thought through all of his behaviours and he knows he made mistakes….. But he was inexperienced (he was 33 when we divorced). He tried again 2-3 times over the phone, and kept saying that he doesn’t have any money to come to Far East and if he had money he wouldn’t lose me who is ‘his everything’ (again now I was his everything). So I said well why don’t you go and live your life, get yourself sorted so you have enough money to be able to afford to come and see me and basically not living on the breadline (we have lived on the breadline before, because he couldn’t get himself a proper job while I worked fulltime and got our mortgage and were able to pay the rent and all bills, he doesn’t have any education but yet thinks that he should be his own boss and can’t work for anyone in a company).
So we don’t talk for 3 months, but all that work I had done to move forward starts slipping, I fall into a depression. This depression worsens this year between January and March, as he calls me again and begs for us to be together he can’t believe that ‘just because’ he doesn’t have money, he can’t have me as ‘mother of his children. This is from someone, who never wanted a child with me in the first place, told me he doesn’t think he is the married type and repeatedly had told me he can’t stand me and my family.
When I told him that its not all about money, he would say yes it is because he had FORGIVEN ME….. What about me? What about all those times you screamed and shouted insults at me? I can’t believe you have now changed based on a few months of ‘deep thinking’. And I said do you think its normal to break up and make up EVERY YEAR? And he said YES, for your true love you do everything. But I said no I am tired of this roller coaster But I still love you, and I just can’t see it working. Maybe in a couple of years time? He said no, if you don’t want me now I am gonna go ahead and move on. So I should have started NO CONTACT then but still allowed him to talk to me (I still had love for him more than for me I think). Then a couple of weeks later he says there is a girl who tells him she loves him, so I say Oh you have a gf then why you talking to me? But he says no she isn’t my gf yet and she knows about you. She knows that you are the love of my life (now I am his love of life that he can just leave and come back to whenever). I don’t believe he just all of a sudden got himself a gf he probably had this girl on the side from last year, but they became official this year. He even tells me about her, yes the gf knows about ME and SHE still loves him, and wants to be with him, even if he has my name TATOOED on his neck and whenever he wants to he will call me and text me while she is around. He tells me ‘we are so matched’.
That’s when I REALISED he has NOT CHANGED> he was just empty words again. I stopped calling him, and have had no contact for over a month. But it is hard to get over this depression. I don’t want him back. But I can’t seem to stop thinking about all the hurtful behaviours and words he told me over the past few years. And even more hurtful was his behaviour this year. Because he called me up saying he can’t live without me and I am the love of his life, and when I told him I don’t know how to go back to ‘us’ maybe if both of us give it another year (he can set himself up and I can set my teaching career up so we are both ‘established’ and healed) he said oh ok I’m not waiting any longer for you, its now or never…. I’m moving on, and within a couple of weeks had a gf that he is so matched with and loves. What kind of love did he have for me?
I have been struggling to get over our 9 year marriage for the past 15 months…. it took him much less time. I wish I had never married him. I wish I had listened to my parents …… Because in the end my support network is coming from parents now. He told me he would ‘always’ be there for me come rain or shine, and he left me several times in our marriage and now for good.
Sorry for the lengthy post. I really have been trying to do all the exercises and written 2 unsent letters and spoken for several hundred hours about all the ‘problems’ for the past month with my support group. But still I am sooo down…. I have always been a cheerful and happy person, even when he left me twice I didnt let that get me down. But this time its like I finally realised how badly I ALLOWED him to treat me and still I had/have love for him. It’s hard to understand why I can’t let go of someone that obviously is no good for me?? ANY advice is welcome…..
kee, get into therapy and block ALL of his contacts. just blocking him everywhere will give enough space to think of you and for you.
who cares what he wants from you? he’s OUT. now block him and show him he really is.
no, he has not changed. but even if he has, he is not the right person for you. plus, you have too much bad memories between you two. a responsible thing would be to let go and learn from this. but this is not what he’s doing or gonna do. maybe it’s just some ploy for money. maybe it’s as easy as that. there’s no surprise there’s someone else whom he’s holding on ice, the other woman. gosh, what a mess. but it no longer is YOUR mess.
why he said this, why he said that…imagine you got in your car which is parked in a totally snowed driveway. You start your engine but you CAN’T MOVE until you move all that snow in your way. You can scream at the snow, wait for Spring to melt the snow or try any other scenarios. The only scenario that’s gonna work though is that you take a shovel and push that pile of snow to the curb and clean a passage for yourself.
Once you pushed this snow to the side, you can jump in your car and drive the hell out of that driveway. You have the car, you know the road, you know what you need to do. He’s just snow. He does not matter pertaining to what YOU will do with YOUR life.
Oh Why, thank you so much for your kind words and uplifting analogy.
I am so aware I am ‘stuck’. Its just like you say, I am in the car, I know the road, but I am not going anywhere. The snow is all in the way….. I feel so down because I seem to have also ‘lost’ my shovel. 🙁
I have no more contact with him, although I have to get my money back and also he has some of my stuff in a storage back home, remember I am in Far East (I pay for the storage but he has the key as he also has his stuff there). I plan on not contacting him for these things but my dad will deal with him later this summer. SO even if I don’t have any contact, I can’t yet ‘delete’ all cords until later this year when all of this is finalised.
Thank you for your sweet words …. It is definitely needed.
kee,
I think it’s an addiction on your part. Codependency. Please block all his contact and get into therapy as soon as you can. You are not missing him. You are having withdrawals from addiction to pain. Strangely enough but we can get addicted to pain and want it again, thinking it’s love. The guy, by the way, is a borderline psychopath, I think. I avoid giving labels to anyone, but reading your story made me think that he is mentally unstable and perhaps even dangerous. I had a boyfriend like that several years ago and back then because I was so broken, I got constantly involved in the drama and took him back thinking with love, understanding, and patience I can fix him. Only 7 years later I understand now that he is mentally unwell, immature adult-child stuck in some unresolved development phase. He is still the same and has not changed a bit. They don’t change unless they have a life epiphany and want a change themselves, but of course people like that lack introspective and don’t think anything is wrong with them. They have zero self-awareness.
Good you are physically away from him. People come into our lives for a purpose. They reveal to us who we are and what we need to improve and change. I firmly believe that once you go through the healing and therapy you will see the light and understand why he happened to you, why you kept taking him back, and why you are depressed now. It will all get well with time, but for now, block him and seek help and counseling.
Sofia
Thank you for your words. I think it was addiction too, because it was not healthy, I remember telling a friend I met here in Far East about my relationship (who did not know him and never met him) and she said it sounded more like you were ‘familiar mother figure’ than his wife. And that is what I think I have learnt from him.
He wanted a mother (his mother was awful to him as a child) and you are right he did sometimes act out like a teenager or even at times as a 3-year old throwing a tantrum.
I have some issues about therapy, because here the language is a barrier so the earliest I can get some therapy is in 10 months time. I don’t want to continue feeling like this though for that long. I feel I have given enough of my life to him. If I could just stop having these nightmares then I think my mood in the day would improve too.
Any suggestions to get over nightmares?
Kee, do you believe in God or any High Power? Meditation, prayer? These can help you to have calm nights with good dreams or no dreams. Drinking alcohol, too much caffeine, dark chocolate (too much of it!) triggered weird dreams for me. I pray before I go to sleep and fall sleep with a cross in my hand sometimes when I am particularly anxious during that day or before going to sleep. If you are not a believer, I think yoga might help you. You need to relax your mind and body. You are having vivid disturbing dreams because you are tense and depressed in your waking hours. Try a calming soothing tea before going to bed. Warm bath. Develop a ritual to calm yourself down before sleep but most importantly throughout the day. Read this blog, wear out yourself with exercise if there is a gym or place to run or walk where you live. I see you are in a different country, so you can’t find a therapy due to the language obstacle. Try reading as much as you can. This blog and the books that people recommend. The reading material choices depend whether you are spiritual or not. Spiritual literature along with psychology and BR have been my healing tools over a year now.
Sofia
Yes I so believe in the healing power of YOGA. I wish I had access to group yoga exercises, I feel I am in a rut right now. The yoga I do is minimal (or barely any, more like stretching). I know how to do it ‘correctly’ I have even had training it (professionally in India). So it is more like my mind is distracted and I cant seem to be able to shut it off, or get it to stay still. Plus I dislike doing yoga at home, it makes me feel ‘trapped inside all day’ and the gym I go to doesn’t offer it so I end up doing some yoga stretches by myself on the mat.
It is so hard though to get going, I think it is because of my depression. I used to practice 5x a week back home before I came over to Far East. Some things I really do miss from home….. like the accessibility to yoga studios and like-minded people lol 🙂
I don’t drink (I gave that up on NY day this year cause I realised I was drinking last year because of being in pain as a coping mechanism), I drink only one cup of coffee a week and 1 green tea a day, I am pescatarian here but back home I was 100% vegan so I am all about eating healthy with lots of fruit and veggies, I take my supplements here too but in the end I think I have been so down for so long it is not going to just get better by itself all of a sudden in one day.
It took me a good while to get this low though (at one point a couple of months I actually was considering the point of staying alive – I know scary!!) so I guess it will take a while to get back to being happy and feeling hopeful again.
Today – having blogged and got all of your supportive messages the past 24h has helped me – I feel a little stronger :). I have been studying all day so I guess that means I can focus on something meaningful a little longer than before.
Great analogy, Why! I’m going to use this as a visualization when I need to get unstuck! Thanks! Veracity
Hi Why,
It is probably 80 degrees here today. I feel like my driveway is covered with snow. I am moving slow. It would take me a month to shovel out at this rate. This reminds me of the story people tell about the caged bird. One day the cage door is open and the little bird still want fly out. That is me today. I guess I just don’t have the energy mentally to dig out.
MJ
Kee,
I reading your post, although you say you miss him terribly, everything you write about is truly a reason NOT to miss him. You didn’t mention the wonderful, thoughtful times with him. You didn’t mention how caring he was toward you. You didn’t mention how special he treated you. He has treated you horribly and you have recognized it. You admitted to losing your dream of a family and even said that he didn’t want children with you. Throwing the new gf in the picture was to control you. It’s triangulation, and he wants to seem more valuable than he is. I really don’t know what GOOD qualities you saw in him, but even if he possesses any, giving him another try is not going to remove the pain that he has caused. These are your words:
“I think he might have some borderline personality traits
he also had intense anger management issues, would shout and scream at me
I would just go quiet and take all the verbal abuse
He has so many issues with his dysfunctional family and himself
His mood swings were undpredictable. And he would blame me for it sometimes, saying that since I am not a ‘sex addict’ as him and since I am so boring he gets bored with me and depressed
During our marriage he left me two times
for 2 hours in the streets of Argentina he hurls insults at me
he calls me again and begs for us to be together he can’t believe that ‘just because’ he doesn’t have money, he can’t have me as ‘mother of his children. This is from someone, who never wanted a child with me in the first place, told me he doesn’t think he is the married type and repeatedly had told me he can’t stand me and my family”
You have basically said he is:
Uneducated
Financially unstable
Verbally and emotionally abusive
A sex addict
Hater of your family
Uninterested in starting a family
Unpredictable
Unreliable
Cruel
Insensitive
Angry
Manipulative
Involved with another woman
Meanwhile, you are NOT this type of person at all. From what I’ve read, we can be caught in a “trauma bond” with someone. It’s unhealthy. It’s addicting. And you need to get out of it.
I am reading Natalie’s book ‘The No Contact Rule” right now. I’ve just hit the section about depression. I suggest you read it if you haven’t yet. She says:
“You may feel so much pain at the loss of the relationship or still feel like you’re drawn to them even if you’re not acting upon it and it may feel depressing because you really wish you didn’t feel like this.”
You are over-caring for someone who doesn’t deserve anything from you AT ALL. Depression comes before acceptance. I think I’m lingering in that space myself right now.
Use your pain to fight for what you REALLY WANT.
Say something,
Thank you for repeating all my word to me – I think I needed to re-read them again to let it sink in. I know i didnt highlight the positive, its because the positive has been overshadowed by all the negative behaviours …..
I used to only remember the positives last year when I was still crying for him in bed, remembering how sweet he would/could be towards me when he was ‘happy’ and how he would always pick me up from work and drop me off at the train station in the morning (especially in winters when it was freezing) even though he didn’t have to go to work at same time as me (when he had a job that is). He would do little sweet things for me, like get me favorite sweet to have with tea and make me breakfast in bed. And even if he was ‘non-commital’ I trusted him to be faithful. He has a special thing about him when it comes to being unfaithful, when he was with me I am 100% sure he was faithful even though girls would flirt with him (sometimes while he was standing holding hands with me) which he never reciprocated. He was soooo good looking, and he knew it! I mean he did have good qualities — just not enough of them.
But this year, following his last attempt to get me back and at the same time tell me about his gf, I have been focusing on ‘WHY’ i didn’t take him back. Because when I was telling him no, I couldn’t put a finger on why my instincts were saying no. I just told him we have ‘too much baggage’ to which he responded ‘but those were just mistakes, we both made mistakes, we were young and inexperienced (we are both the same age so not so young and inexperienced in my view).
I started to really think back on the relationship and then i started to remember so many instances that were abnormal. I allowed it because I loved him and I also thought he was unhappy because of :
1) me (if I did something differently then maybe he would become happier)
2) his dysfunctional family dynamics (which I supported him on and tried helping him with to create a ‘normal’ bond with his family, that is until he started to open up to me about the abuse. At which point I thought it might be best for him to cut contact with them and instead get therapy, but he never wanted therapy as he said he knows his issues and he is dealing with them).
I agree with you, I am over-caring and I am in depression for sure. I want to get out of this state. I know he is not worth it and I know I deserve more. I knew that last year (hence moving across the world). I am just upset with myself that I can’t just snap out of it! I do little things everyday, but EVERYTHING is a struggle. I feel like I am in a fog, and I know there is a road in front of me but it is so hard to take one step in front of me ‘blindly’. Plus something that is not helping the situation is that I did move ACROSS the world to get away from him, but it also meant I moved away from my friends and family. So my support network is mainly through phone and online. I feel extremely isolated.
I have 10 more months of my contract left here, so it is just trying to survive the next 10 months without getting into a clinical depressed state.
I might read the book you recommended…
Thank you so much for your words! Appreciated 🙂
Kee,
I’ll point out your own words again, which you used somewhat as qualifiers for the happy times:
when he had a job that is
even if he was ‘non-commital’
even though girls would flirt with him (sometimes while he was standing holding hands with me)
i started to remember so many instances that were abnormal
^Red flags galore^
We all process grief differently, and at our own pace. I’m almost at the one year mark and it’s frustrating as hell. There is no way to “snap out if it” and that’s why we are here. This site is our common denominator.
Look up Sandra Brown (author of Women Who Love Psychopaths) and super traits. Everyone else has also provided helpful advice and suggestions.
NC is crucial. You may never be paid back, and best to let that go. It’s a way of holding on. Sounds like you are doing well in your career, and he has been nothing more than a parasite. Loving the wrong person is painful. Beating yourself up about it causes suffering.
These are also your words:
I know he is not worth it and I know I deserve more
So true.
Say something
Oh wow – I just read a description of Sandra Brown’s super traits …. THAT IS SO ME!
I am so: Excitement Seeking, Extraverted and Dominant. I like to be in control, love to travel and see exciting new things and definitely an extrovert.
Although now that I am depressed/heartbroken all of the above traits are somewhat lacking/disappeared.
I also have very high amounts of the following :
(Competitive) – less
Sentimentality
Bonding
Attachment
Tolerance
Friendliness
Empathy
Helpfulness
Compassion
Responsibility
Purposefulness
Resourcefulness
Loyalty
Trust
I guess I need to look out for who I allow enter into my life, because I think I used to call myself a very ‘accommodating and flexible’ person but maybe in reality maybe it was a sign for just high amounts of tolerance, attachment, empathy and sympathy. That is perhaps why I was soooooo in-love with my ex-EUM.
It is true the love I have felt for him I have never felt for anyone else, and I had a couple of boyfriends before him but I never imagined marrying them. While the way I ‘fell’ for my ex-husband, I was determined that we would make it because of our Love (he would confess to having an undying love for me too).
‘Women who love psychopaths tested very high in relationship investment and positive sociability.’
OK yes, I had VERY high relationship investment and VERY positive sociability. Now maybe I need to ‘curb’ these traits somehow?
How is everyone else dealing with this knowledge (if you think you have some of these traits in excess?). Is it just practicing being aware? Or trying to lessen their degree?
Hi Kee,
Well not all EUM are psychopaths, but I would bet that that these traits attract EUM as well. I don’t KNOW that the guy I was with was a psychopath, but he was def EU and he has several traits. He was a future faker. He claimed (in the aftermath) that I never knew the REAL him. He pulled a Jekyll-Hyde breakup on me. I witnessed a totally different personality emerge on the spot. Told me “I feel like I’m living a lifestyle that isn’t mine.” He fell asleep next to me while I was crying, and it didn’t seem to bother him at all. He was able to cut me off and never see me again. He was with someone else in less than a month, possibly sooner.
If you relate, get the book ‘Women Who Love Psychopaths’ and read her articles. http://saferelationshipsmagazine.com/
I don’t think you can “curb” your traits, but being aware and making different choices IS within your power. The traits listed are POSITIVE ones, but they can be exploited.
The person you are fleeing also seems to have many borderline traits, and obviously has MANY, MANY problems. Stop giving ANYTHING to him. You are not “giving up on him” but rather you are saving yourself.
Hi Say Something
THANK YOU! The quote I need to remember: I am not giving up on him but I am rather saving myself.
I think I lost that thought somewhere in the midst of my depression between last year and now. I actually have been feeling bad for ‘giving up on our love’ and giving up on him.
Because according to him, ‘he waited for me for a year after our divorce and tried his best to get me back’ (he tells me this as he recounts how ‘free and light he feels having accepted the break up and moved on’).
Wow – your ex-EUM seems VERY cold! That is very mean behaviour…..
I agree, I think in hindsight this year I have read up on borderline personality disorder and on paper he matches so many traits. On the other hand reading up on psychopaths, well he exhibits traits of that too. 🙁
Although I think he is able to exhibit sympathy (maybe not empathy) – and regret to some degree.
But in my experience, he didn’t exhibit positive traits strongly and consistently. For years he exhibited poor behaviours, it was just that I was always ‘blinded’ by how good his loving words were and how he would put me up on a pedestal (before bringing me and my whole family down on me when he had an emotional outburst). I always tried to excuses his poor behaviours by either agreeing with him (about me not being supportive enough or understanding that he would get frustrated because we didn’t have sex 4 times a day – which is what he used to claim was what he needed) or agreeing that something my family had said was perhaps disrespectful and I would try to calm him down.
Tbh he did ‘change’ somewhat over the years, his outbursts and so called need for sex 4 times a day subsided but never completely went away. Well, according to him he had no more issues with me after we divorced but HOW can I be sure of that based on years of historical evidence?
I have read that borderline personality disorder is treatable, but needs a lot of work in therapy> I remember suggesting to him in 2011 that he might want to see someone go to a doctor to get help (back then I meant for his depression, because he would get sooo low and depressed and then he would have snap out of it after a few weeks and be all happy and energetic) maybe the doc would have realised he has BPD traits and it might have made a difference. But he never wanted to see anyone.
In the end – its always their loss right? Not ours. I just wish my heart would hurry up and follow the logic of my head…..
Kee,
“Well, according to him he had no more issues with me after we divorced but HOW can I be sure of that based on years of historical evidence?”
You have more than enough evidence. He has issues that will last him a lifetime, but they don’t need to last for YOUR lifetime.
CUT HIM OFF. Stay NC.
Pick a new baby name.
Stop giving him money.
Don’t give him your time.
Your heart cannot hurry. Call it feeling bad for him, a habit, addiction, whatever. Whatever you want to call it is still unhealthy. Don’t try to normalize what’s abnormal about him.
@Kee, this is the kind of relationship that drives someone to kill, commit suicide, or go insane. Should by some miracle none of those things happen, then the “best case scenario” is that you live a completely miserable life. This man doesn’t know how to have a relationship. When he’s with you, he’s anxiety-ridden and frightened over feeling “trapped.” When he’s not, his anxiety lessens, he panics, and chases you. But when he’s with you, he doesn’t know how to be. YOU can NOT solve his issues! In fact, it’s clear from your recounting that he thinks everything is your fault and he has no issues. You’ve given him more than enough chances to “change” and he hasn’t and will not. Forgive yourself for loving him and hoping he would change– you are human and I’m sure he had his good points. But he is not a relationship person and that is his problem to figure out (and likely he never will, most men like this easily find another woman who will hang around hoping he “changes”). Block ALL contact, since you don’t have kids you can do this, and know that your depression will lighten in time — but only deepen if you continue with this madness. I’ve been there (though not with all of the traveling!) and I came out of it. Good luck!
Diane, I agree. The man is dangerous. The story of his behavior is scary. I hope Kee will stay very far away from him.
Thank you Sophia! Yes, he was no good for my emotional, mental or spiritual being….
Diane
I know I felt like I was going in insane, especially in 2013!! I also felt like I was making progress last year and would have if I had BLOCKED contact with him earlier.
Well I guess lesson learnt for future eh?
You said ‘from your recounting that he thinks everything is your fault and he has no issues.’:
I think that was what I didn’t understand? When I told him but seriously you have no issues with me anymore? You had issues with me (or yourself perhaps) for the past 9 years and by thinking about the past and your behaviours and our relationship as a whole you have no longer ANY issues? And I know he didn’t go to any therapy, so he has just “thought his problems away”.
I think there is a point why I couldn’t take him back, but he only got hung up about the money part (well he is currently broke, because he hasn’t yet been able to pay me my money back and lives in a single rented studio). When I asked him how envisaged us getting back together and living and getting married and have kids, when he has no house car or steady income (the restaurant he opened with his friend is not making profit yet) and I am starting a new career and need a couple of years to get myself settled (financially and otherwise) he said: it doesn’t matter as long as we are together we can do it. We have love and then everything else comes…… But what is very disturbing is that we had Love, House, Car and Job BEFORE and he didn’t want it and threw it away…… But to him that was just ‘a mistake’ because at the age of 33 he was still inexperienced and not knowledgeable about relationships….
I can’t wait to get out of this feeling. I know its not good for me I just don’t know how long I am supposed to feel this pain before ‘it’ leaves me?
@Kee, you can be sure that not only will this man continue to drain you emotionally and spiritually, but financially too — while you are handing him your hard-earned cash, are you saving for retirement? Investing? Buying a home? Why he is a good investment for you financially? He’s not. Don’t give him one more penny. My guess is he wants to use you as his personal ATM machine.
There is no timeline on feeling pain — you were with him for 9 years and need to mourn all of the hopes and dreams you had for him. Don’t go back to the source of your pain hoping he alleviates your pain. He won’t.
For myself, 8 months after my break with my EUM, I was still feeling very heart heavy, so I began studying Buddhism. That helped A LOT for me. It was the first religion to tell me point blank that life doesn’t always go as planned or desired — that is part of life. You did nothing wrong. It focuses on learning to let go.
Reading support boards like BR also helps. As for me reading books like “Men Who Can’t Love,” “He’s Scared, She’s Scared,” etc.
Meditating helped. Taking care of myself. Putting MYSELF as a priority. Exercise. Healthy eating habits.
What does not work: Drinking, casual sex, rebound “relationships,” trying to fill a void with a man. Beating myself up for “giving too many chances” or “believing his lies” etc.
Working on forgiving yourself.
There are myriad ways to move through the pain. No contact works wonders. I think I didn’t totally get over things until I fully realized I couldn’t email him occasionally “as friends” or “casually” or “because I’m bored” etc. I do not stalk anymore, I don’t even LOOK at his Facebook page. If I’m ever tempted, I think, “I’m having a pretty good day, and feeling pretty good. Why would I want to chance seeing something that will make my day, possibly my week, miserable?”
For some people therapy works — I did a bit of it, but honestly, Natalie is a better and cheaper therapist than most of them. Mine did offer me a few golden nuggets that were helpful though.
It’s a PROCESS. Your pain doesn’t miraculously disappear one day. Even now, about 4 years after my break, and 4 months after total NC, I can have moments of pain, regret, heavy heart. But they move along swiftly.
Hi Diane
Yes I sometimes feel like I am mourning my dreams and hopes more than him, well he is linked to the dreams but he is no longer THE dream. I feel like I have wasted so many years… I should have given up on him in 2011 when he left me the first time. But when you are married, you don’t give up just like that do you? I mean I didn’t get married to get divorced, I got married cause I was dreaming of having a long life with him.
He was so hot and cold on the issue of family with me, but what tops it all off is that following our divorce he has named the restaurant with MY BABY name.
Ok, so when we were married I had already gone far ahead in thinking what names we would have for our children, I had already told him those and he had accepted the names and would ‘talk about our 2 children’ and what we would do as a family, just wouldn’t accept to actually having/making them. He kept hesitating and saying ‘we’ll see’ or ‘when the time is right’.
THen he goes in to what I call ‘fantasy-land’ and last year when he is begging me back, he tells me he is wearing his wedding ring now every day (He never wore it before, he used to wear it on his keyring), and this is after we have divorced and I am living in a different country.
He doesn’t tell me what he plans to do with the restaurant, but this year I find out he has named it in ‘my honor’ with the flag of my home country (different from his) and ‘the name of the baby’ I always talked about. He told me he had envisioned I will come back to him, he will propose, I will say yes and we will get married and have the kids I always talked about. Is this NORMAL?? I mean I guess flattering, if we were actually married, but once I have left because of several rejections, is it normal to behave like this?
These words has not helped me in my process AT ALL. Because he said those things earlier this year and then a couple of weeks later he is telling me how he has accepted that we are over and there is this girl etc…..
I remember crying so much hearing this dream of his, because it sounded like a movie, but also because I had wanted that for 5 years while he only seemed to have decided he wanted it AFTER we have divorced. But wanting something (a dream) and actually producing it is what I didn’t believe he would actually be able to do.
I read somewhere on Natalie’s post that the EUM is a dreamer, somewhat fickle, and I don’t know if all of his actions the past 15 months were just part of a big ‘dream’ or not.
I guess these thoughts keep distracting me from focusing on myself. Even while I am studying today I find my thoughts drifting to his words, And in the end of the day they were words because I never went back to him ( for the 3rd time) to see if they were REAL or not.
I am not religious, I do believe in some higher energy in Universe though. I have read Power of now and other yogic books, but not so much Buddhist (although Yoga and buddhism have very similar ideas and literally 5 core differences). I have listened to Buddist monks talks about happiness, but I think I need to learn the art of letting go.
‘How to get out of this fog and pain and I wish I had done this instead of that’ attitude is the book I want to read! lol Anyone heard of something like that?
What kills me is my own behaviour more than his. I had always treated him better than myself, I had put him first and ‘invested time and money’ in him for what? What is the return of that investment? Only a hard life lesson learnt…. No one should be worthy of you so you lose yourself in the process. I think Nat had a post about something like this a few weeks back. I have learnt my lesson, but I regret it took me so long to realise it. Even this year I bought him a present (before I went NC) for his birthday that was delivered to his workplace (I have always bought him presents or at least a birthday card, even when it was rocky or we were separated). I think I thought more of him like a family member, you don’t give up on your family member. But actually in this case, I think I should have given up and will now give up on him.
I bet you he won’t be buying me anything this year let alone sending me a card. Not that I want it, but it just shows his true nature….. Last year his birthday present was a phone call, he told me he couldn’t afford anything else.
You are right Diane, he is not sound investment. I am just sad because I made such a HUGE investment and I feel he played with my life. Even after we broke up he kept playing with my emotions. Or should I say I allowed him to play with me? Either way, the only way is up…. Just such an uphill right now!
@Kee, this man can talk to invisible babies, but not real ones. He can name a restaurant after a baby, but not have one. He can put up the flag of your country, but not honor and respect you as a person. None of those things require real effort or commitment — anyone can look at an empty space and call it by a name and baby talk it. Don’t take any of that junk seriously. And stop focusing on his words because they were just that, words! Guys like this thrive on words and they know women respond to things like “You’re the love of my life.” Words and actions should match. Yes, maybe you should have left in 2011, but maybe not. Maybe you would have always wondered what would have happened if you gave him another chance. Well, now you know. No need to wonder any more. And no need to wonder about the third chance you never gave, because you know exactly what would have happened there too. Congratulate yourself for finally choosing yourself over him. 9 years is a long time but you’ll see women on this board who gave up 20 or more … I gave up 6, and even more if you count the time I spent back-and-forthing via email with him after I broke it off. It’s okay … some of us learn our lessons slowly … but the important thing is that we learn them. Be gentle on yourself … you’ve been battered enough, have compassion for yourself.
@Kee, and I just wanted to respond to this part: “But when you are married, you don’t give up just like that do you? I mean I didn’t get married to get divorced, I got married cause I was dreaming of having a long life with him.”
I hear a lot of women use marriage as a reason to put up with bad treatment. I think it’s that “better or worse” line that gets to them. For me, “worse” means my partner gets cancer — not that my partner abuses me. “Worse” means he loses his job, not that he loses all his money gambling or seeing hookers. “Worse” means our house blows away in a storm, not that he knocks it down with his own hands in a fit of rage.
And “better or worse” definitely doesn’t mean “he gets the better, I get the worse.”
By those definitions, he is the one who “gave up” on the marriage, not you.
WOW Diane! That’s so true! It’s the for better or worse that makes me feel like I ‘gave up’. Also You are right, He made most of the ‘worse’ happen….
There were quite a few ‘worse’ actions and these actions hurt me so much, I didnt realise how much til this year, because the nightmares are all mixed up with his latest words from earlier this year (about me being the love of his life/the restaurant and baby name etc) and the actions of him dismissing me and being cold during our relationship.
I feel I am so weak for his words, that is my problem. His words affects me so much. 🙁
Well, now that I have gone NC its the words from the before that haunts me.
Hi Kee,
You are much stronger than you give yourself credit for, you’ve been through a lot emotionally and it’s very normal to miss him. You were together for a long time. As I see it, I think you are on your way to recovery. You are doing the work (i.e unsent letters) and more importantly, you are not romanticizing him by focusing on his good qualities. Sometimes we do that by refusing to see the real person, instead we focus on the fantasy. You recognize that is not the right person for you and you admit not wanting him back.
As for learning to let him go, Why has given you some good advise. In my case, I learn to change my thought process. We teach our mind to think the way we want it to think. Learning to meditate is the starting point. It is hard in the beginning if you are not used to quiet your mind, and many people give up immediately. But like everything worthy in life, we must be consistent. Also, think about the times you are likely to miss him. Is it late at night or when you are alone? Late at night, that’s when meditation helps. During the day, go out with a friend, go for a run, get a manicure/pedicure, get a new hobby, join a social club. For me, doing all those things are little ways I learned to take care of myself. Focusing on improving my Spanish saved me after a humiliating breakup. Last but certainly not least, reading this blog. I am so incredibly grateful for this blog and all the people that share their stories, however painful they might be. As for Natalie, I think of her as my spiritual sister, I can never thank her enough for her wisdom and straightforwardness. So kee, take comfort in the fact that you are recovering from this painful experience. I have no doubt that you will be your cheerful self again. Don’t give up if it doesn’t happen as quickly as you want, eventually, you will get there. I wish you a peaceful weekend.
Truthinclarity
Thank you for your words – i dont feel so strong though> i feel weak. I have always been able to get back into a happier state even when things were ‘rocky’ between me and my ex-husband.
It is for sure late at night and weekends that are a struggle. I am trying to fill my time with reading blogs (like this one), hiking as exercise and also studying for my MA but i do miss the social life I had access to back home to get my mind off things. Plus for so many years I was used to putting HIM first. Although in his mind I was a very selfish person, because the one thing I didnt want to do in 2012 was ‘support him in his real estate business’ because I didn’t want to take out a 2nd mortgage in my name for him to get enough capital to get into real estate (his background is building renovation that he learnt on the job, he has no formal qualifications just raw talent). He obviously couldn’t get a mortgage cause he never had a good enough credit.
I feel this recovering might just take forever, I have so little life force right now. on weekends i struggle to get out of bed
🙁 and I force myself to go outside hiking for a couple of hours or I will just stay inside in front of computer either studying or reading blogs and getting distracted by my own mind.
I also have recurrent bad dreams EVERY NIGHT for the past 6 months. I sometimes feel a little scared about falling asleep because so far, all my dreams are about him and me and various negative emotions. I wake up feeling exhausted.
I have been to an acupuncturist but her approach was not ‘healing’ enough. I think I need a more energy work approach to help me with my sleep.
@Kee, you might want to read “Love Fraud” by Donna Andersen. Between his wanting you to finance his real estate dreams and his restaurant, sounds you got yourself caught up with a real fraudster and/or psychopath. Sure, he might think those dreams can become reality, but why does he need to use YOUR money to finance them? Go get a bank loan, for god’s sake. If his credit is so bad he can’t get a loan of any kind, he will most likely make a crappy businessman too. Start putting your money towards your own future and not down a black hole — one that doesn’t treat you well to boot. Sounds like you are suffering from PTSD and the only cure for that is to go NC and stay that way and gradually heal.
Please, go get your hormone levels checked asap. Do a complete hormone panel- you could be low on Progesterone which causes major depression. If you need hormone therapy, try the bio-idenitcals first, they are a miracle.
Shano
Thanks for the advice, will look into it. Going back home for a holiday in 2 months planning on seeing My healer, docs and see whats up generally with me…..
Hi Kee,
You are not weak, from reading your original comment, I think you are adventurous and courageous. Very few people would have the courage to sell their home and living their support system behind and move to a foreign country for a job. It’s hard to be a foreigner, and I should know despite having my family living near me. I can empathize with the loneliness and alienation you are feeling.
I also understand from your posts that you are blaming/punishing yourself for allowing him to mistreat you so badly. Please forgive me if my next sentence is crude, but I think at one point we need to learn to say f…ck it, it happened and it’s in the past. We need to learn to uplift and pat ourselves on the shoulder for becoming a better version of our former selves, the version that will never let any other human being dim their light. Relationships are not mistakes if we learned the lessons that were worthwhile. Yes, you could have left sooner, but in the end you did, and that’s what count. I hope you get to the more empowering stage of acceptance and self-forgiveness soon. You are young, you still have the time to create the family you’ve always wanted with a man who will want to build a life with you. Don’t waste your precious child-bearing years rehashing the past and questioning his actions. Who cares about him. Life is short, use it wisely by taking good care of you and make the best of it everyday. Get the support you need and fight your way out bed, go out and do your best to live. If you don’t, you will wake up one day and realize that you have very little time left to start the family you have always wanted.
Finally, him naming the restaurant after a name you wanted for your child isn’t flattering. You liked that name, and I bet now you can never use it for your kid. I think he did it to be cruel.
My best to you!
Thank you Truthiclarity!
I have no problem hearing the ‘truth’ even if its harsh. As a matter of fact my support group all say ‘harsh’ things to get me going lol.
I was in a state of denial last year, I think it has taken me around 10 months to just get to a point of really grieving my ‘loss’ (of dream). I am no longer having intense anxiety or panic attacks, but the sadness is still lingering. Still can burst into tears at the drop of a hat!
But I have a goal in mind, I am not planning on staying in this limbo forever. I have to just get through the next 10 months to get closer to my goal, and get back home to re-settle.
I sometimes do feel like I ‘should’ be in a much better position, life wise (not financially), as it is easy to get caught up in the FB-update-world (where it seems everyone has got an idyllic family life set up at this age). So thank you for reminding me that I am still ‘young’ (even though I feel this divorce has AGED me!).
I am going to study now – its 10.30pm over here, but I think I’d rather study and feel that I have been somewhat productive today than do something mindless. My mind is seldom at peace, so having read your encouraging words, I need to take hold of myself and my life! 🙂 🙂
To all the BR readers and posters: if you haven’t read Codependent No More and the next book Beyond Codependency, please check both books out. I am reading two books now ( I have read the first one years ago but it didn’t register back then), and a lot of the subject we read about on BR. I couldn’t stop reading in awe yesterday. Some points I was familiar with, other ones, I was nodding my head and astonished how true it all was and had been until I started changing me. In fact most things in the first book apply to me pre-ex breakup. I was so happy to read and understand that is who I was and how much I have progressed and recognize there are still some things to work on. I think the second book will apply more to those who are already well on the healing path and getting better with each day. The first book is diagnosis and treatment, I would say. The second one is like a life continuous check-in and reaffirmation ( I haven’t read it yet, just scanned). I highly recommend both!
Sofia, thanks so much for this reminder. I purchased “Codependent No More” and I am starting reading it today. It took me years to come to terms I have those issues and I am finally working on them. I will be definitely getting “Beyond Codependency” on your recommendation.
Dear Natalie – does this include politicians? I am so disappointed. All the games! on all sides!
You are right we cannot care for those who blatantly don’t care for us, in reality, but its how to defend yourself in the building of your strength back up in the meantime? while they run around doing damage everywhere they can, in a torch and burn strategy. Attacking our health, wealth and happiness head on.
You are saying let them run their own ruin to doom – without us – while we focus on what we need – WITHOUT THEM – and that even with any provocation stay AWAY from them – be independant/ self sufficient emotionally etc.. – it is THEY who need to draw us IN to THEIR drama in order to dump THEIR guilt/give themselves an ego boost/toe shine/take extra money they don’t really need at the expense of people who do etc….
Brace yourselves and buckle up – there is no way out of the ride – you either walk away emotionally and physically from disrespect and unloving behaviour or you support them effectively abusing you and others – there is no way out – unless you choose it for yourself and take the necessary actions to follow your choice and protect yourself in the future.
Unboundaried – they will get crueler and crueler until eventually – you get to a point where you finally COMMIT to your need of true health, wealth and happiness BEFORE their need to destroy you repeatedly in order to strike fear into others to tow their line – devide and conquer strategy which strikes fear into the weak in order to see who survives – survival of the fittest strategy.
Look after yourselves AND others who come across your path – if they don’t give you the same in return – RUN + stay completely independent of them – no matter what pretend carrot they wave in front of your face to stop you seeing the red flags all around them.
Which is in reality what they really want anyway – because if they really wanted you to be dependent on them and them on you ie truly connected with you – they would treat you with unconditional love and honesty from day 1 and continue even when the going gets tough not give it away to others and use any vulnerability you may have to abuse and take advantage of you.
If the actions don’t match the words – sack them and walk away from THEIR problem.
I cried when I read this post, which I haven’t done since finding this site 2-3 years ago. The topic is exactly what my therapist and I have been working on recently. It’s normal (expected) for adult children of narcissistic parents to be overgivers while accepting and receiving very little in return. As it turns out, I’m classic textbook of someone raised by narcissistic parents.
It was scary at first to realize that both my parents were/are quite narcissistic (not full blown NPD). Yet, the more the light bulbs turn on in my head, the more compassion and self-forgiveness I’m having for myself and the choices I’ve made in everything from underachieving to men I’ve dated. It’s all making sense!
So pleased for you Rosie – this IS where you get your wind in your sails back once and for all – and the more power to you.
Took me a real struggle – from knowing they were Narc to fully accepting that was who they were and who they were staying – no matter what I did or how good I was but I still find myself trying every now and again – less and less though – the more I fully see how they make me really feel compared to others who don’t.
Your Therapist must be good to guide you through this – I’m pleased for you – alot if they know the symptoms of a Narcissist – don’t understand the full implications of being the child of a Narcissists – just like ourselves – until it all unravels and we finally become aware and can act with our eyes fully open.
Rosie & Oona,
Thank you for your post. I’m so pleased for you, Rosie. There’s so much freedom in the truth. Self compassion is such a wonderful gift.
I am just coming to terms with this myself. I kept trying to figure out which one was the Narc. I am accepting that both of them were quite Narcissistic as well. I wasn’t aware that the overgiving and (learned/expected) inability to receive was textbook for being raised by Narcs. This is one of the many things that frustrates me about therapy. I’ve gone for YEARS. It would have been very helpful to me for someone to tell me that! It would have explained a lot.
I have a hard time giving to myself, and recieving. My parentas are narcs. Like right now, I have lived in the same place for 2 decades and can’t get myself to move, so I can have a pet or even for a change.
Many other things I keep changing like men and jobs, both not by choice. Is this a symptom of being raised by narcs? How does one get the hell out of that pattern? It’s very dibilitating and I feel like I am missing out on a lot of joy, like having a pet.
Rosie
Tell me more about the being with Narc parents, my folks are like that too. YOu said underachieving with men, what about underachieving in life in general?
In the past I found myself trying too hard, caring too much, in most of my relationships, not just romantic. I was afraid of being thought of as mean/rude/inconsiderate. I was taught to be good, compliant and that good/compliant= nice (worthy). I also had this belief that it was virtuous to be patient, flexible, and to give people the benefit of the doubt over and over again.
Basically, I was screwing myself over repeatedly. I now realize that I was taught that it was my role to lose. That there are winners and losers in every situation and my role was to lose.
If you’ve ever heard the expression “take one for the team”, that was my job/role. And I certainly wasn’t aloud to complain about it ‘cause my feelings didn’t matter – I didn’t matter. Of course I stopped recognizing that I had feelings about it and that I had a choice and that they were full of shit.
I’ve thankfully come to the place where I recognize this and am no longer willing to play that role. I also no longer want to be nice! Nice is a doormat. Nice just pisses me off these days. I kinda want to punch nice in the nose (processing some anger over here! Yay!!). I am not nice. I am kind – to myself as well as others.
I am finally at the point where if you are not meeting me halfway, you’re done. If you treat me poorly, you’re done. You want to play games? Sure, go play by yourself. You want me to do all of the work? Take a hike. You want me to take responsibility for your BS? Bite me.
I’ve had enough. Actually, I’ve had more than enough. I am worthy of being treated with dignity, kindness, respect, and consideration and in intimate relationships – love.
I matter. I always have, I just didn’t know it.
Love your tenacity, Veracity. 🙂
“You want me to take responsibility for your BS? Bite me.”
This is great! lol. You BS meter is back in order.
🙂 Thanks, Selkie!
Yes, the BS meter is back in order!!
Yesssss, Veracity! What a powerful comment.
VeraciTY!!
Yes!!!
It’s like you just kick-boxed your way through the baggage.
Thank you Veracity – I needed these words today!
I’ve felt soooo low today – need to keep on remembering your words:
‘I am worthy of being treated with dignity, kindness, respect, and consideration and in intimate relationships – love.’
Best
Kiana
You’re welcome, Kiana. I’m so glad the words helped you today and I hope they continue to help you to stay strong and remember your worth. Hugs, Veracity
Beautiful Veracity 🙂 It’s so nice to read so many who understand when you’ve been in a sea of nonbelievers all your life telling you – you are wrong – that you weren’t.
I was reading somewhere the other day that the scapegoat/ blacksheep of the family that is chosen IS always the most loving AND strong person in the family and they are chosen specifically in order to carry the families psychological problems in secret – like the families personal dumping ground. Of course we are taught to be extra loving as children – it wouldn’t work otherwise.
Loving too much, turning the blind eye & cheek to bad behaviour and strong in order to take the repeated abuse and keep going as if nothing is going on. So good to hear people having had enough and re evaluating what is really being strong and loving – to themselves. I hope it gets stronger and stronger for you.
Thank you, Oona. It’s interesting to me that in my family anyone but my parents were wrong – another words, they could do no wrong, so of course it was us. So I guess we all felt like (were) the scapegoat.
Originally I was the lost child, my sister was the scapegoat. I felt/feel bad for her. I was the only one to stick up for her and try to protect her. Now it seems as though I am the scapegoat (or maybe we both are).
I was wondering if that was what was happening at work. They (bosses) deny responsibility/accountability and put it on me. Would that count as being the scapegoat?
Amen.
Hi Veracity,
Big AMEN to the last five sentences.
Sofia and Say Something,
This book list is really worth reviewing. Some great books are on the list including The Four Agreements (Say Something suggested for me). It is a great list of self help books with a brief description of each. I am going to get some of these for sure.
http://time.com/3478972/self-help-books-permanently-changed-my-life/
THANK you Mary Jane! I will definitely look to get some of the books on the list!
Thank you, Mary Jane. Great sources of self-help and self-knowledge!
Veracity- “You want me to take responsibility for your BS? Bite me.”
LOL!!! I love it! 🙂
Hi All & Mary Jane, Cardiovascular did it for me too. When I was devastated by something the EUM pulled, I went to gym every morning at 5am before work and did 30 minutes on treadmill, then alternated the machines. At about the eleventh minute on treadmill I had relief from obsessive thoughts.
I’m over that horrible guy. I’m getting ready to start daily cardiovascular again for the energy, joy, and weight loss it brings me.
PS. Happy Spring and Happy Mother’s Day ! Broken Hearts Heal.
The true diamonds of the world are found here at BR in Nat’s words. This post is soooo good like roast and carrots.
Nat,
It would be exceedingly cool to have a BR app. I would pay for that.
I second that!! 🙂
Recently a man showed some signs of interest in me, then came the mixed signals, then came the red flags. After the red flags, I have no more desire for him. Why would I? Being with him in any capacity would only mean getting wrapped up in some sort of shadiness. If there had been a tryst, it would have invariably ended and I’d be left to deal with the fact that I willingly gave someone what they didn’t deserve (the worst of feelings). No thanks.
Good on you, Peanut! (lovely name by the way)
So strong…. And so wise (to notice shadiness so quickly)!
I think that’s what this site does for you (at least for me) — opens up one’s eyes to not only what one deserve but who one really is (apologies for the really poor English grammar, but my brain is fried from today’s teaching).
I am no longer going to accept SHADINESS 🙂
reading and re-reading these posts and comments helps.
Im trying to change my habits. this really is all about habit change I believe.
Going a different way to work, avoiding a certain place I see guy.
Thinking different thoughts than I normally think, focusing on life fulfilling goals rather than on life demeaning habits.
I need something larger than the habit I turned him into.
Im working on it.
thanks for all of your words.
Totally Estelle, trying so many new ways to get you out of the rut until you find things that make you feel genuinely good and sticking with them.
Say Something,
One of the best things you can do for yourself right now is to workout. It is the best medicine you can give yourself on a daily basis. It is my first appointment everyday. You have to take care of yourself.
Woke up yesterday and didn’t feel like working out. I forced myself to go to the gym and then I hit the trails. Felt great.
@Kee- if you can get outside do it. I know you are having a tough time. Please go outside if you can. It will help you think clearly. I was out at a beautiful area that has a lake and it lifts my mood. I saw a beautiful crane. I saw a mama duck protecting new baby chicks. Being out in nature will help alter a bad mood combine that with some movement and you will be amazed!!
Health is so important.
Hugs,
MJ
An AC I dated literally only a handful of times when he was in one of his off-again time periods from his on-again, off-again ex-girlfriend (who he ultimately married) wanted to become buddy-buddy again (he and his wife were smiling and all-friendly at a mutual friend’s party). I ignored both of them.
Now he and his wife, when they are present at the same mutual friend’s parties, are openly critical of me, in front of everyone, at these events. The wife will smirk at her husband when my kid doesn’t behave. The husband will shake his head at what I say. Mean time, he tries to get in my way, too! He blocks my path when he sees I am on my way to the washroom, or to the kitchen. I wait for him to leave, to avoid him.
I don’t want to care, but I do. I don’t deserve to be treated this way. He was the one who was a jerk to me when we dated.
Why is he, and are they, both so nasty now?
Why is he trying to get in my way?
Hi Disullusioned,
If I were you, I would have kicked him in the nuts real good. Sometimes you have to hit them where it hurts.
Funny how the victim keeps getting beaten up–this is the final (and, now, ongoing) insult. It’s not just him who doesn’t want to take responsibility for his actions…it’s also his wife. They both are not being real about things.
Well, however he is acting, he is very nervous about it. He was squeezing his (empty) water bottle, more than a few times, when I entered the main party room.
They are not as tough as they look.
Well, he was doing this (hanging out type of blocking or hovering) out in the open. Why? Snd why so MEAN?
Kee, I am so sorry for your pain. My heart cries for you. I hear you very well.
Here are some more suggestions. I got out of a similar contract many years ago for similar reasons. You may need to use the services of your home country and be with family. Perhaps a family member can come and visit you?
Listening to classical music can be very helpful. They are doing studies that show that our genes are positively affected for health and mood. I still listen to Mozart at least a half an hour a day. I just got through listening to Sheherazade by Rimsky-Korsakoff. So beautiful. I encourage your to try this. I feel over the past year it has changed my life.
Kee,
The other thing I just learned is that these people are so emotionally stunted that they don’t know how to take responsibility for stopping a relationship. I ended a relationship first part of January. However, he still attempted to make contact. I was polite but still minimally engaged when I was in the vicinity. Somehow I still kept thinking something might happen. (still hoping I guess)
Next Saturday I have one more obligation in which I will probably see him. I will then drop the entire organization and the few friends I have made. I have made arrangements to get involved in another organization (music) that no one knows about. I didn’t know that he would probably keep trying to contact me. Thanks to all here who’ve talked about this.
I need to get stronger and by the time anyone figures it out, hopefully I will be all better!!
Kee, you wil make it through this and be stronger for it. My best wishes to you. Mistea
Hi Mistea1
Wow – you are so spot on about the family thingy and music….
Before reading your comments this week, I had started to listen to classical music and at night I listen to Yogic mantra music. Thank you for the recommendations – I am currently listening to Rimsky-Korsakov 🙂
Also, my parents have become much more involved now that I have gone full NC with him and really trying to get him out of my life. My mother actually came out to Far East last week to visit me.
You are right about not understanding when it is ended – it’s ended. He called it ‘not giving up on your true love’ as I was his so called true love. But in hindsight, many times in our relationship (since 2011) I felt like a rag doll that he would take out and play with when it suited him. When it didn’t then he would throw me (and our relationship) away. But those actions were according to him just mistakes, you know he was not yet fully knowledgeable at 31,32,33 years of age….
I have also been reading a lot of quotes about how to let go. I am still sad and cry many days a week (not every night and day like before) but I have found that it helps to read uplifting quote that assures me that I did the ‘right’ thing in not taking him back for the 3rd time.
I am not familiar with your specific situation but if it is related to mine then you might appreciate this:
~~ Don’t hold on because you think there will be no one else. There will always be someone else.You have got to believe you are worth more than being repeatedly hurt by someone who doesn’t really care….and believe that someone will see what you are really worth and treat you the way you should be treated. ~~
We just need to keep hope….
I am sorry you still have to see him one more time, I plan on not seeing my ex any time at all. At least for the foreseeable few years.
Can someone go with you on Saturday, for moral support that is? (I realise I am replying on the day you are due to see him so sorry for the late reply).
I hope we all get to a better (happier) state soon-ish.
xxx
Disillusioned,
I’d find different friends or different parties because to me that does not sound like a party at all.
You may be asking, “Why should I have to?” Quite simply, because life is like that sometimes.
Take Care and stop puting yourself around these two.
Thank you.
kee,
Your English is fine! I’ve been coming to BR for near three years. It has changed my life and will continue to do so because as long as Nat writes, I will read.
Plus, the principles in which Nat grew BR, are the ones in which I strive to live my life: honesty, mindfulness, & courage.
I’ve been thinking recently about this urge to connect with someone we know isn’t fundamentally good for us. Natalie uses the “crumb” analogy, which is really right on.
More and more, I’ve been thinking of my EUM as cotton candy: it looked like fun and tasted good so I kept eating it… but there was no nutrition, just sugar. So no matter how much I ate, I wasn’t going to get what I really needed. I might feel full for a little while and enjoy the taste… but eventually, I just had to go away and make myself a steak, a salad, eat an apple and drink some water.
It’s hard to admit that someone I really liked is just a bunch of fluff but once I started eating “real food” (healthy relationships, stable friendships, etc.), it’s easy to walk past cotton candy. The craving goes away. EUs taste good for awhile but there’s nothing of substance to nourish you or a relationship. That’s my food analogy for EUs.
Michelle,
I love your food analogy. It’s so true. When we’re emotionally unhealthy we get caught up and lost in hollow people who have little to offer but a five course meal of crumbs. We starve in all kinds of ways while we think we are being fed.
Peanut,
thank you for your commmon sense wisdom. “Because life is like that sometimes.” Slaps forehead. Of course, you are right. I’m one of those who will analyse things to death only to get myself upset about it. No reason to do this at all. Thanks
Yes, no more over-analyzing.
Hi, Veracity!
I really liked your comment, but just had to throw in my two cent’s worth: I’m glad that you distinguished between being nice and being kind in your post, but obviously being nice doesn’t automatically make one a doormat. Being a doormat would equal being *too* nice, bending over-backwards with people-pleasing behavior, etc. It can certainly be a fine line, but I feel that it’s an important distinction to make.
Hi Freedom…, Point taken! It’s my own personal issue with being *nice*. I was too nice and allowed people to walk all over me. Now when someone tells me I’m nice, I cringe a little inwardly! That’s probably why kind strikes me as more boundaried than nice, because it is for me.
Thanks for the feedback!
Hi everyone,
Just started reading some of the posts trying to make some kind of sense of the situation I am in and get some answers. I an in a long term relationship which I am not happy in at all, been together for 7 years and there is no passion, we live like flatmates, have done for a long time now and it is just getting too much for me. My partner is not a bad person but just does not seem to want any kind of relationship like that at all, I have come close to walking before (the last time being the day after our engagement party when I ended up hysterically crying after he refused to hold my hand during it because he found it embarrassing), but stayed when the crying and promises to change etc happened.
We have been looking after a young family member of his for the last few years as well which has been unbelievably stressful, I am now on the verge of a stomach ulcer now through anxiety and stress and taking medication everyday for it. We have no kids but a dog who I adore and (god help me) is, if I’m absolutely honest, probably the only reason I’m still here. How can I leave my little dog, he wouldn’t have a clue why?? I couldn’t take him because if I leave I have no idea where I’m going to go, it’s his house and I have no family to go to so I’m starting again from scratch. God I’m about to start crying now…
Anyway, recently my partner has been spending more and more time out of the house, taken up a hobby which takes up a lot of his time. I briefly suspected there could be someone else, I don’t really think so but he obviously cannot take the toxic atmosphere between us either. I am too exhausted to hide it anymore, he doesn’t deserve the way I’m being either but it’s too much. Where do I start to tell him? This is ripping my heart to pieces and I just don’t know how much more I can take, any advice would be appreciated.
Hi Confused
It’s always hard to give advice to someone else without being fully in that person’s shoes or even have full knowledge of the relationship.
I can only go from my own experience, which was slightly different from yours, but I had to follow my gut. There is only so much you can accept when it comes to words, if there is no change in action then there is no point. But I have to say I also did try and gave second chances, although we never went to counselling because he didn’t believe in talking to outsiders about his problems/ our problems. Instead I believed him when he said he had ‘had time’ to think about things and wants to make it work. Just like you I had invested many years in my relationship and I didn’t feel like I should just give up. But in the end, it became too much for me.
My mum said to me just this week, no matter how difficult a relationship gets if either party stops communication, or shuts down and then makes an active decision that they want to leave (and actually in my case he did leave twice) then they have thrown the first brick to shatter the house (relationship) that you have built together. It is very difficult to re-build something that has been shattered…..
In terms practical advice – I started from scratch too. I mean I have family, but I have always been an independent person. I left my birth country when I was 19,where my parents still live, and since then I have lived in 3 different countries (and continents). However, the country that I had settled down with my ex-husband, I left following our divorce (marital home sold + money spent travelling around world) and came to Far East to a country I did not speak the language/know the culture. I simply came for work purposes and to get away from the toxic back and forth relationship.
I am re-building myself, changing career, studying for my MA, getting work experience teaching and trying to not cry every day for the way my life have turned out. It is VERY HARD but it isn’t IMPOSSIBLE. Back in 2013, following the final decision to divorce, it took me a couple of months to figure out how to move on and what to do with my life. I spent time alone researching and thinking and at the time this move was the best solution I could come up.
If you follow your gut then you will come to the right decision. Remember just because a decision is hard to follow through doesn’t mean it isn’t the right one.
All the best
Kiana
Hi confused
I was in a marriage just like this .. It is soul destroying and in my case no amount of relationship counsellling made the slightest difference. I had to get out after 14 YEARs of trying on my part. He just checked out of the relationship one day and refused any discussion. Your “partner” sounds the same.
However hard it is please get out and build your own life! All the best
Confused, rent a pet-friendly apartment and take the dog with you. It’s true that they’re harder to come by than the other kind, but they do exist. I have two cats and I’ve had them for four years. My last serious ex-boyfriend kept telling me to get rid of them (this wasn’t the reason for the break-up, which would take too much time to explain in one comment) but I still have my critters and he is long gone from my life.
Hi Confused,
I definitely understand your sentiments about the dog, I couldn’t leave it behind either. But don’t you have any friends or acquaintance? Sometimes people baffle me by their generosity, you never me. Maybe you check in with social services from your town and see if you could find a temporary place. I don’t know if my advise is useful or not, but my heart goes out to you. I will keep you in my prayers tonight.
I went on a first date last week. Noticed that although a good match on paper, guy seems to possibly think he’s in the running for casual sex (two polite kisses on date supposed to be cheek peck he forced to lip to lip ~ amazing as first was a debarcle due to him doing this ~ very poor form he pulled same move second time). Also, sent me a 2 line email (internet dating) calling me “chocolate eyes”. Truth is, I’m out of his league but internet dating seems to have given him false bravado. I do not care for this man & have not responded to chocolate eyes BS. My profile says, explicitly, I’m not interested in casual sex. Yuk. This guy has put me off.
Another guy, a touring musician, said he’d take me out to dinner a certain evening. Had my number & was supposed to call to arrange. Time came. No news. Days later he wanted me to travel across town to still spend time with him. How unfortunate for him. I declined!
Another internet dude (didn’t meet this one) thought it was bad I’m a psych major. Why, I asked? Because it meant I could ‘work guys out’ he replied. Damned straight. Needless to say he too was stopped dead in his tracks, again despite possible good match on paper.
I’ve been off ciggs four months now (can I get a yay teach?) & am finally dating after a four year break. So far so good. It will take a very special.person to get me to interrupt my routine for dating & I know EXACTLY what I’m looking for. No hurry here. If he doesn’t come along I’m busy with my own goals anyway.
Thinking of you all. T 🙂
Yeah Teach!
I am in similar situation, taking it slow with this online stuff. Online guys are frustrating, but I guess I’m frustrating them as well. Last guy who contacted me said goodbye because we couldn’t make a conversation happen within a couple weeks, says he wants someone whose schedule works with his.
Too bad I said, becasue I have a lot of availability, he just caught me in a busy week (not the norm). However, I told him I’m glad it happened becasue I am looking for the right guy and he can’t be it since he is giving up on our connection so quickly. I can’t stand this ‘next’ mentality, it really gives online dating a bad name. I know we need to do that too, and truth be told, I am not ready to jump at any situation. This guy told me he’s a widow and I asked when did your wife die, he replied, 2 weeks ago! OMG, the body is still warm!
I asked him about this and he said that that they were just living together, but not really partners and he stayed with her until she passed away. But still, 2 weeks later he’s trolling online. I didn’t feel right about this guy anyways, so I’m sure it’s a blessing in disguise that he ended the connection.
Definately a blessing for you there Whatever. Sounds creepy! Best of luck with it all and remember, hopeful and optimistic but guard UP! 🙂
How did you know I used to do that?
“They think that you care so much that it will give you rose tinted glasses and a fur coat of denial.”
Just know your talking about what I was doing, Nat broke into my home or something, and was spying one me everyone! : )
Think I cared to the point of crucifixion – and died then woke up and said what about me though?
I’ve been a 1/4 of something for so long even I am curious to know what else I have to offer? Even if it is totally messed up or something there has to be more of me than one fourth that is interesting to get to know, God I don’t care anymore if I DO discover the rest is messed up.
Hi Kee,
I’m so glad you took my advice before I even gave it!!
I canceled the Satuday event. I feel so irresponsible canceling my obligations like that. It makes me feel so flighty. They had plenty of help though. I can’t tell anyone why because it’s someone they already know and respect. I’m sure they don’t know how he treats certain people as it’s only ones he gets emotional about. I just didn’t know about this narcissistic thing. Thanks for your support.
OMG!!!..Natalie has done really a good job and all the ladies here are wonderful!!!
Ok, I have been wanting to dunmp my excess baggage here since sooo long now. I dont know if any one will want to look at it…but i am doing it anyway.
Let me start with me…I am a happy loner since forever. I always had this idea of ‘ men are pigs, dont bother’ thing. I think it started in my childhood when I got abused by more than one family member. Well, now I am happily married with 2 kids :). I refuse to sob over my past ( but I think I unconsciously did).
What happened last year: My husband gave away all our savings of 10 years to his dad wanting the badge of ‘amazing son’…yeah, I generally dont get pissed but I had to this time. Also because he has a chronic illness and we are unsure of how long he will be strong enough to earn. I got insecure on OUR future, our kids future. He said “its ok, its gonna come back to us after dad”…really?…I got messed up, used happy pills left right and center, but this thing grew like a plague inside me. I had no besties at any point in my life…I helped people and they loved me, that’s all. I needed someone to listen to me and say its ok…I could not say it to my family as it will only make them sad..I needed someone else.
The Assclown entry:
One of my school mates found me on FB and added me friends group. I chatted when I could and there was this guy who always got my humor and the comments I made, we began chatting separately, at this point I was not talking to my husband, he never knew (not that I would reveal it even now). I started to feel that I got a bestie, felt so happy that i got some help, I told him all about my childhood, my college stuff, and a lil bit about my husband. But I NEVER insulted or talked bad about my husband to him and NEVER had any intentions to sleep with him (also that we are across the globe)NEVER. But he kept on flirting(he is married), I kept on denying and checking on his flirts, told him straight that I was not here for an affair. He got pissed but didnt stop, actually, I trusted him more that he deserved. He sent me songs and i cried coz I was in pain, this lasted for 2 months.Suddenly one day he said ” I love you”…I was like wtf. But I got attached to him!, he was not like my husband but pretty close he came!!!…I said I was not expecting for us to be like this. He did take no for an answer it but…(boy did he?)
The Flip
One day suddenly he decides to flip , just like that. What ever I do is “not that cool”…what ever I show is ” I dint like it that much”….and then comes ” you took me the wrong way, I was not interested in you either”….yeah BS, I know. I tried for a month to make him feel better because now I was feeling guilty of hurting him!…He was emotionally unavailable. The flip was amazing, from “you are the best person I know”, ” you are cute, wait, I already told you!” ” you are hot and your voice is sexy”…to “hm”.
Then came the ignoring saga, he ignored sooo many of my messages, even the ones when I asked some help from him. I still didnt grow brains…I spent 400 effing $..yup $400!!!!! for his birthday gift. He spoke to me well when I was buying gifts and then after they reached him…he shut me down. Assclownery at its best.
The End:
I said to myself ” you gotta be fuck1ng kidding me”. I wrote a kinda bad message on his birthday, stopped texting and cut him outta FB. I cant believe I fell for this $hit. I lost emotions,trust and money. Its been 3 weeks of NC and hopefully will last forever. He dint come back, if at all he comes back, I will try flush him. I must because it will be only for more gifts or for an ego stroke FOR SURE.
I believe that I am a strong lady but sometimes idiocracy takes over us… I am saying to myself ” you are ok, dont do it again”. Hopefully, he will come back and I get a chance to hurt him. If he dosnt, its so fine too…I dont care. I do think about him but not like a fool, I grew brains now.
OMG…I lost 120 kgs just now…
Well, also the thing is its been 2 weeks of NC now..as much as I never choose being in this sort of confusion, that too for a person who could just switch from ‘so caring’ to ‘so dont give a f’…I get reminded of the days when he was the only one listening and reciprocating with me, taking time off and giving me the support I needed…unfortunately my husband was giving me cold shoulder then (its like if not one the other…aggh)
The pain and me paying off in his gifts does outweigh his time (if I can say so, please mind I am not counting money here)….but I am not able to get out of ” well, he was once so kind to me” thought….
I really dont want to have someone who confuses me to this levels and messes my brains up as to what the eff am I in…I mean who would?