Over part one and two of this series I’ve explained about how being involved with someone who doesn’t want to give you the truth up front results in a steady stream of information being dripfed to you over an extended period of time – the Drip-feed Manoeuvre.
When this happens, the aim is “to control the information and control the reaction. Instead of being upfront and giving you all of the information, they make the private decision to only give you information that they think you can handle at that time. It also serves a darker purpose – ensuring that they don’t admit to more than they have to.”
Of course this type of behaviour is not just reserved for assclowns and Mr Unavailables or for Fallback Girl recipients. There are people in walks of life that don’t like to let the left hand know what the right hand is doing. Rest assured that the Drip-feed Manoeuvre is confusing even for the most emotionally healthy of people because the goalposts keep changing.
They key with being confronted by this behaviour is to register the alarm bells that should be ringing, process the information, and take action – just like in other circumstances where your boundaries are crossed.
The reason why you will feel blindsided and confused, potentially even feeling immobile on what to do next is that what you thought was the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth before, becomes a part truth or even a falsehood. When they originally shared the ‘truth’ with you, you then accepted it and adapted to take in the new information and are likely to have based some of your subsequent actions and relationship on it.
Eg. He says that he’s told you everything and that yes he was spending a lot of time with ‘that woman’ but that there was nothing physical. You agree to forgive him and learn to start trusting him only to discover that he actually was sleeping with her. He then tells you he was afraid of losing you and your reaction and eventually you accept the sob story and say ‘No more lies!’ and he agrees. More time passes by and it comes to light that he’s been having cyber chats and cybersex with loads of random women and his ex is claiming that they’ve been sleeping together occasionally….
At the end of the day, the horrible thing about having someone drip-feed you information is that often they make out like ‘that’s it’ and now everything has been ‘confessed’. That is until you catch them out again or a new piece of evidence is uncovered…
But what about when he doesn’t respond when questioned?
When they’re being exceptionally deceptive and unsure of exactly what you may have caught them out on, they will stonewall you by claiming they don’t know what you’re talking about, shutting down, going on the offensive, or even disappearing.
The only way you might get them to admit it is to be really specific about what you know. Even then, with the worst of the liars, they’ll still deny, which really leaves you with having to let go of trying to extract a confession and riding with the one person you can trust, yourself.
In the case of the online dating site, it could be that he’s thinking “Sh*t, did she just see the dating site? Or did she the messages between myself and X about meeting up? Oh hell, maybe she knows about the hook up sites or has even been reading my emails. Screw it, I’m just gonna see what she says. She’s so crazy about me, she’ll probably back off anyway…”
One of the nasty side effects is that if they master the move of stonewalling your attempts, you get taught that if you [rightfully] pursue them on their poor behaviour that you will be punished with them withdrawing communication, affection, or the ‘dream’ of a possibility of a relationship with them.
Don’t challenge me or you’ll be punished, this behaviour screams loud and clear.
Passive aggressive all the way!
You allow them to drip-feed the information to you because your boundaries aren’t in place and with each nugget of info that they drop where you’re still around, they end up learning that you are likely to still be around when they drop the ticking bomb. The Drip-feed Manoeuvre defuses the ticking timebomb. Instead of wreaking devastation, it instead leaves a dent when it’s dropped that gets lost in all the other dents that have been created.
You also have to keep in mind that if he’s drip-feeding you information, it’s unlikely to be the truth even when he throws you a crumb of the story. Why? These guys don’t know their arses from their elbows and are very distanced from the reality of their actions.
By the time they tell you something, it can end up being different from what it would have been originally because they have time to come up with stories and lies.
This is no dissimilar to when they pull their One Time in Bandcamp Story, where they tell you their tried and tested tale of woe where they paint themselves as the damaged, innocent party that got hurt/disappointed/deceived by another person. Over time, the story has been carefully crafted but many women find that when an opportunity presents itself to find out the truth, they’ve been spun a web of lies!
Trust me, these guys with a penchant for lies and the Drip-feed Manouver will spin a story about you when they move on to someone else. Instead of, “We broke up because I played around behind her back and I wouldn’t move out of my mothers house because I have no desire to commit to a woman and be answerable to someone” it becomes “I had to end it with her because she was a needy psycho making demands on me and she even hated my mother!”
Always ask yourself: If this mans lacking the balls to be upfront and tell me the truth and is instead drip-feeding me information, how can I trust him?
What are you waiting for?
Instead of admitting to crossing your boundaries and disrespecting you in one fell swoop, he’s admitting to stuff that crosses your boundaries in little pieces, but what’s the difference? Yes some things will have more impact than others, but at the end of the day, crossing boundaries is crossing boundaries.
From the moment that you find yourself with someone who is drip-feeding you information, I’d let your spidey senses kick into overdrive because it is a sure sign that you are around someone who doesn’t mean you any good and is not interested in having a honest, decent relationship with you.
He may well be afraid of your reaction to the truth, but a real man as opposed to someone behaving like a little boy caught with his hand in the sweet jar, will grow some brass nuts and admit the truth so that you have your right of reply to decide what you want to do and so that you can move forward (if you choose to) in an honest manner.
The difficulty in living with lies is that anything based on it is a lie. One of you holds a vital nugget of information that the other party isn’t privy to.
Some of this behaviour is learned. Depending on how you’re parented, you may have grown up in an environment where the truth meant punishment. In fact, part of childhood is telling lies because we are scared of the consequences. Eventually we learn that it’s wrong to tell lies although that doesn’t mean we won’t do it. If you grow up being taught that expressing yourself or telling the truth may have you penalised, you may be emotionally schooled to be wary of being truthful.
I know this from personal experience. My own mother claimed to despise lies but we were punished whether we told the truth or whether we told the lie – telling the lie delayed the punishment and we told the lie because we feared the reaction. However, I’ve had to learn to differentiate between my mother and ‘everyone else’ and I don’t spend my life being deceptive.
This is the key problem with this behaviour – these men don’t like to let the left hand know what the right hand is doing. It’s not in their interests to give you all the facts and let you draw a conclusion and make a decision, and let’s be real, some of us aren’t too keen on letting go of the illusion either so it can sometimes suit us to let them continue with the drip-feed – a bit like a stay of execution…
Where someone’s drip-feeding you information, there’s lies. Where there’s lies, there’s no trust. Where there’s no trust, your relationship is fatally flawed. Even if you attempt to hold onto the relationship, as you’ve already discovered, you’ll lose yourself and end up normalising bad behaviour.
If you find yourself on the receiving end of being drip-fed information, make sure you piece all of the information together and process the evidence of your relationship. More importantly, take action because this will call an end to the dripping tap of lies so that you can live a life in the reality/
Your thoughts? Check out part one and two
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My ex wouldnt dripfeed me information,at least not as mentioned on the post.But sometimes he would tell me half of the story and I wonder if that can be considerated dripfeed.For example once he told me that he have been to the doctor and that he said that I was doing him no good and that maybe he should considerate ending things with me.That was strange since he had never mentioned that he have been to a doctor on our talks and I found weird that a doctor would advice him to break up a relationship.Anyway I asked for more details and he said he didnt want to talk about it,that he needed time to think about what the doctor said and that later when he had come up with a decision he would explain it better.He also asked me to not ask his family,he said that he havent told them about it.Well months went by and he never got back to the subject to explain it.To be honest I think that never happened and that he just made it up to come up with a reason to break up with me.That can be considerated dripfeed?
I also think that he would lie a lot but everytime I confronted him about it,he would act ofended.
“Trust me, these guys with a penchant for lies and the Dripfeed Manouver will spin a story about you when they move on to someone else. Instead of, “We broke up because I played around behind her back and I wouldn’t move out of my mothers house because I have no desire to commit to a woman and be answerable to someone†it becomes “I had to end it with her because she was a needy psycho making demands on me and she even hated my mother!â€
Im sure of that.I bet he is telling everybody that we broke up because I was needy and “didnt let him live his life” like he used to say all the time.And probably never will mention to anybody how EU he used to be when we were together.
Ohhh NML, I wish I was wise like you;-(
When I confronted my EUM and asked him to tell me the truth if he was dating someone else, he was swering of his Mum’s life that I was only woman in his life! I always believed him, as I thought it is very serious…These guys dont care, they can say anything…
I talked to my colleague yesterday and she told me that when her boyfriend let her down, she rid of him at ONCE! She didnt give him second chance, just cut him off for good…and I was putting up wiht lies etc for almost two years…SHE was asking me why? I couldnt give her an answer….
nail on the head! One time in band camp is an absolute classic example, they come out with such crap shes this, shes that, my philosophy is this a shining example of the behaviour he will display with you eventually! These men need to come with refrences from the previous poor soul that had them.(even then some women excuse it)
Where as women will want to be everything opposite of what he told her the ex was like. Rather than thinking hang on a minute whats his part in this charade!
Love your posts NML you have helped me and my friend so much this past year. We have one little problem now, we know too much so seeing a friend bending and morphing to an AC EUM is like torture, we know what she needs to do and she does in fleeting moments of sanity but she continues to entertain this asshole. Any tips? apart from kidnap?
This is so accurate and it’s true, why on earth does someone think it’s ok to conceal the truth so often, it can’t be a good sign.I don’t feel a need to do it. We all have been in a position where telling someone something very upsetting would be too much for them to hear so maybe have softened the info a bit, but that’s not the same at all as the Dripfeed or stonewall approach.
I know that the AC is going away next week to visit the other woman because he’s got no work for a few weeks, I also know that she’s moving in with him soon. So when we met this week I asked,’what are you going to do with your time off?’ Answer ‘I don’t know’ later I said ‘ everyone says that she’s moving here soon.Is it true?’ Answer ‘I don’t know’. ‘What, she’s going around telling everyone that she’s moving here and you don’t know. How can that be?’ Answer ‘Don’t know’
What purpose does this nonsense have? Well it frustrates me, which no doubt gives him some sense of power and I think it helps him carry on believing that he’s the helpless victim to predatory women.
Yes it’s passive aggressive with spots on. Thanks NML.
NML and all the women who have posted here….
I have been reading your words of wisdom for over a year now, almost daily, and I cannot begin to tell you the effect this website has had on helping me to understand how my own flawed belief system has needed a serious overhaul. I have been involved with EU relationships since I can remember and I am in my mid forties now, but piece by piece you have shed light on each area of the problem, one article at a time educating us on the dynamics of this, and I cannot begin tell you how much you have helped me to move myself to a better place emotionally, spiritually, and mentally. I just wanted to express my gratitude NML and say thank you to all.
Thank you to all the women who post here everyday for helping me understand more about myself and make the changes I need a little bit at a time to finally reach for higher ground.
As a textbook example of the truth of what NML says in this post, here was today’s conversation.
Me ‘This really has to stop, it’s no good for me and anyway she’s movng here soon so then that’s it anyway. When is she moving here?’
Him ‘Don’t know’
Me ‘That is boll*cks.She’s told the rest of the world so don’t tell me that you don’t know.’
Him ‘ Why are you so curious about it? Anyway I”m not going to tell you because you’re too curious’
Me ‘ What is it with you, why don’t you ever just answer, it’s not such a big deal. Or is this your idea of ……’
Him ‘It’s my power’
So there you have it – from one of the least self aware people I have ever met but deep down beats the heart of a charming manipulator.
Now I just need to find the off switch and press it myself, my finger’s have been hovering over it for a long time but I switch it off for 10 minutes then completely panic and switch it on again.
Knowledge is power which is what this post is about, so the more we know about what’s going on, the more power we have ourselves, and the more pathetic their way of trying to hold onto power seems.
Sadthing,
Living with real, plain-old, “normal” people, and communicating with people who are truthful is way better than just living with trying to guess what (drip-feeding-type) people may mean when they talk to you.
There isn’t much drama living that simple way, and some people might find it boring, and I think I used to be that way, but living in the truth and in peace about your life really does beat living in bad, untruthful relationships.
I hope you find the strength to move forward with what you know to be true from reading NML’s articles.
Thanks NML, this is once again an informative and much needed post. It would be nice to have a follow-up article about how women are socialized to “stand by their men” and even work to destroy other women for “their man” even when he treats her like dirt. One of the things I have learned about these AC/EUMs is that they rarely ever give a straight answer. They always have something to hide. So my motto has been: A STRAIGHT FORWARD QUESTION DESERVES A STRAIGHT FORWARD ANSWER. If you have to hem and haw and ummm and ahhh and come back with “new and improved” information that is different from what you originally told me then I gotta leave you alone, because I can’t trust what you say is true. My first EUM, whom I thought I would love forever (NOT) would not tell me his last name for weeks. One day it would be X and then something would come up and he would refer to himself as some other name or someone would call him Mr. Y and I’m like, dude what’s your last name? it’s not that hard a freakin’ question! He fianlly told me he went by both names. But when I asked what was the name on his driver’s license he would not show me. If I have to beg to see you driver’s license to know your last name, really you aren’t worth my time. But these men are assholes who have very little understanding of what being truthful and honest is all about.
More seriously this same man who I should have left when he would not give me a straight answer as to his name, also lied about his status regarding veneral diseases and actually gave me one. I remember asking him if he had any and his answer was “me? I’m clean. I went to the doctor and got a blood test and I’m good” I shoud have insisted he get tested (boundaries, ladies!!! we all need them let me tell you…!) then when I contracted the dissease (NOT HIV thank god!!!) and confronted him as to when he last got tested specifically for STD’s it was like uhhh, ummm… They only give you information they think will satisfy you at the moment beacuse like NML said they don’t have the balls to be honest nor do they respect you enough to actually tell you the truth so that you can be empowered to do right by you.
I have been following many of your articles for the past 7 months now. I had been in a 2 yr relationship with a ‘soul vampire’ that ended bitterly in March of this year. It almost destroyed me…and if it weren’t for this site (and the wisdom of NML), I never would’ve pulled myself up out of the hopeless abyss! A million ‘thank yous’!!! This is the first time I’ve left a comment. I could never really peg my ex ‘soul vampire’ in any ONE category (EUM/assclown/etc..) but this article describes some of the bull I was fed for sooooo long!! He is the King of Half Truths, Part Truths and ‘Safe Wording’ *ahem*!! “No, I didn’t ‘sleep’ with her.” ~ (meaning that he certainly was NOT ‘sleeping’ when he spent the night with her).
To make a long story, short…after 2 years (of what I thought was true love/soulmates ~ he talked the talk) of lies, cheating, verbal abuse, and emotional games, etc., it finally ended. I had lost my TRUE self somewhere along the way, and couldn’t imagine my life without him in it (regardless of the misery that life WITH him brought me). At one point, I stumbled across this site and began to rebuild my inner strength – starting with NO CONTACT. From a distance I could see all the flaws (not just his) and how I had allowed the situation to continue for so long. Since my healing began, I have gained much self-esteem, self awareness, boundries, and most of all GRATITUDE. I have never felt stonger in my whole life…However…..
The ex ‘soul vampire’ has recently started to get in touch. And, since I am strong enough to deal with it, I have accepted calls, etc.. He claims to be a changed man, that he’s been to councelling, that he didn’t realize what he had (with me) until he lost it…blah, blah, blah.
This article TOTALLY hit home, for me today….I was actually beginning to eat the new plate of excrement, that he was serving up to me. Thanks for bringing me back to reality NML!!! Already some of his stories aren’t adding up. My question, though, is …
Should I continue to meet up with him, now and then? Keep in mind that I’m not falling for his crap, or hoping for a future with him, or any garbage like that….The reason why I’m asking is because it almost feels good to see him from where I stand in life, now. He is the same deceitful, smooth-talking, soul vampire….and it almost rewards me to see him in the same rut as he’ll always be. I’m just not sure if it’s a good idea to continue any contact with him?….any advice ladies??
Thanks so much NML & fellow ladies!!
I look forward to reading more here, every day!
🙂
Grateful,
Please ask yourself if you would continue a relationship with a girlfriend who had deceived and hurt you in such a manner. These people do nothing but bring toxicity to our lives, I can guarantee he will continue to bring more, one way or another.
Please go NC and continue to rebuild your life .
my ex kept telling me everything was fine until one day, out of the blue, he said “I met someone else, but things with us had been really bad for a while anyway and it’s obvious we’re not compatible”.
I wonder if I’d have found it easier, if I’d known all the while that’s what he thought. He pulled the rug from under my feet while I was doing a headstand.
If I’d known… I wouldn’t have tried so hard to understand what was going on. In hindsight, I was obviously dealing with his mixed messages during the time immediately preceding the breakup. I couldn’t confront him, he would deny things, I just talked myself into trusting him. Stupid, silly me. I did hear my gut, but didn’t listen. I didn’t know its voice… I had never experienced this. I’ll never make this mistake again, I hope.
“Of course I love you honey, everything’s fine. Let’s make long terms plans… oh no wait, I changed my mind. I met someone else, two weeks ago actually, I kinda fell in love, you and I weren’t meant to be together anyway. But it was fun with you, I enjoyed it, thank you. Let’s be friends.”
Bastard.
@Grateful for NML –
Please apply the NCR for good. I went back and many of us here have been seduced, lured, and whatever else you can think of back to them. I thought I was strong enough too, but the minute they get their claws in you’re hooked again and you’re back where you started before you implemented NC in the first place. And you’re self-esteem gets worse, it’s just plain awful.
Only this time should you choose to go back the AC’s are worse. They’re more evasive, more controlling, in some cases meaner, less respectful than they were before you broke it off. They could change, if they wanted to but more times than not (and you can read all the stories here on NML’s site) they don’t.
Do yourself a favor, save yourself from more misery, pain, suffering and trauma. Leave the AC alone, implement NC, keep working on your self-esteem and you’ll attract the kind of people you would be proud to introduce to your friends, family and the like. Because these AC’s have no clue how to act like a gentleman, be considerate of other’s feelings, needs, or just to commit and be part of your life.
You’re hoping the old dog has changed his color, or removed the spots, or added spots, or what have you …. we all know in the real world these things just don’t happen. You know it too, follow your gut on this one.
Take good care of yourself and I pray you have the strength to use the NCR!
Margrit,
I am so sorry..What make me angry about these men, that when they want you, they will be following you like a puppy, but when they dont want you, they just disappear without explanations or tell you some cr@p without coniderations how you feel afterwards..I wish you all the best!!!
@ Gayle and Betterwithouthim – Thank you both sooo much for your input and vote of confidence! 🙂 I suppose I really KNEW the answer in my gut…this IS a toxic situation and I really WOULD be embarrassed to bring him back into my friend/family circle (even as a ‘friend’). When I see it all spelled out here…I see how I might have been slipping backwards….towards “betting on potential”, “loosening my boundaries”,etc… instead of letting go of the illusion. Whether it’s in full doses or drip-fed…poison is poison!!!
Letting go of a ‘beautiful lie’ and facing the ugly truth, seems hard at first…..but I need to focus on reality and on the simple fact that the truth will set me free!
<3
thanks again!
NML rocks!! (Girl, you saved me from my old self!!) 🙂
Thank you Baggage Reclaim! Every post fits into my experiences, old and recent. It is confurting to know that I’m not the only one who has been sucked by ACs/EUM. I feel dad when I read storries of a$$holes hurting women, and many times I’ve read my own stories.
As soon as I decided that this was the best site out there for dealing with and healing from ACs/EUM, I emailed the site’s URL to 10 of my closest girlfriends, and then some. Even my councelor loves Baggage Reclaim!!
Thank you thank you thank you!!
I just discover three weeks after I ended it with Mr. Assclown of the Universe, he had a girlfriend the entire time!!! I confronted him and he stonewalled. I was at my lowest low until I read this article. Now I can jeep my middle finger up in the air where it belongs!!
Xoxoxo
Grateful for NML,
I know EXACTLY what you mean about feeling almost giddy to be able to view your ex-EUM in a new light… since you are healthier… and able to see his BS for what it is… and you want to continue to see him almost to say hey, I am so over you and in a better place, to prove to him that you “won.” And it’s true – you DID win! And HUGE congratulations to you!!! It’s such an amazing thing to take that step forward (I posted about this a few weeks ago in the article about processing your relationship and moving on).
But be careful. Until recently I had been casually keeping in contact with my ex-EUM, and it felt so good to both still have him in my life (sick, I know) AND be able to see through the lies that I hadn’t wanted to see through before. It felt so empowering. BUT what I have found is that deep down, I am still trying to prove to him that I am a catch and that he should wise up and realize it. Which I’ve realized from reading these articles is never going to happen… like someone said, he’s not rejecting YOU, he’s rejecting commitment, communication, a healthy way of relating, taking responsibility for someone else’s feelings, etc. Which none of these AC’s have any desire (or ability) to do. And each time I talked to him, it would suck me JUST a little bit more back into thinking about him… and then the cycle would begin to start in my head…if I talked to him, I’d want to see him, if I saw him, I’d want to sleep with him, if I slept with him, I’d want him to be my boyfriend, and if he was my boyfriend, I’d want him to start acting in ways that he was completely incapable of acting. So it was a losing proposition no matter how much I wanted to tell myself otherwise.
It’s been almost a month of complete NC and I think I’ve actually made it through a whole day without thinking of him…which is pretty remarkable! I’ve started to notice and even get excited about the possibility of other guys, and I think THAT is what is ultimately going to get me over my ex. You have to replace one “drug” with another to really cut the cord… and this time, I am screening my men carefully!!!
So obviously you know yourself better than anyone else, but be aware of why you want to see him… and if it has anything to do with secretly hoping he will see the “new” you and completely overhaul his personality to be with you… well, I think you know what my advice would be haha. You are WAY too good for that! Find someone who DESERVES the new you!!! And be strong. Use what you have learned to move foward, not backward. You can do it!
I left home at around 18, I remember one of the biggest reasons.. my whole life whenever I asked for something the answer was alway’s ‘we’ll see’, i waited sometimes for months dreaming into ‘we’ll see’, broke my heart evertime when ‘we’ll see’ became, NO. I had counted on, fantazised on, hoped on, prayed on ‘we’ll see’ to become YES, and I would get what I wanted. I know I easily get trapped into, we’ll see if I love you, we’ll see if I take you out next week, we’ll see…blah blah blah..dip drip drip…friggin chinese torture is what it is.
I ran from my parents house to make my life happen for me and I never say to myslf, we’ll see’, I do what I want when I want and to find myself fall for my childhood in another person is devatating cause I have to go through the whole damned process all over again, till I’m that teenager screaming ‘get me the f**&^’ out of here!! This is living my life on other peoples terms….drip drip drip!!!
Life is too short, I want to be in love with life, I do wish the person that say’s yup De what ever you want, lets go for it would come into my life, but tillthen I will say it and do it for myself!!
Just said NO to a drip feeder, his answer ‘but I’m confused’, whatever!! confused is as confused does, not good enough! it’s been a tough couple of weeks but the drip has been dropped 🙂 xx
Love you all
peace
The old dripfeed method brings back some rather mind numbing memories! I can remember taking for 3 hours straight, till I was hoarse, begging him to tell me the truth about things and he would say all but three words – most often it was “I don’t know” Why do keep lying? “I don’t know” – Don’t you see that this is the reason I don’t trust you – “I don’t know” How are we supposed to have a solid relationship when I never know when the other shoe is going to drop” – “I don’t know” …. or even worse he just wouldn’t answer – look me dead in the eye and stonewall me. He claimed in the end that I was too controlling. I thought in time he would learn given that he basically had a mother who was EU and quite selfish – I just needed to teach him 7 years of my own personal schooling didn’t change him – now I see them kind a dudes all the time. Ladies if you recognize these patterns in someone your dating please please don’t make the mistake of thinking that you can change them, or that they will come around RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN AND SAVE YOURSELF THE HEARTACHE!!
dripfeed method brings back some rather mind numbing memories! I can remember taking for 3 hours straight, till I was hoarse, begging him to tell me the truth about things and he would say all but three words – most often it was “I don’t know” Why do keep lying? “I don’t know” – Don’t you see that this is the reason I don’t trust you – “I don’t know” How are we supposed to have a solid relationship when I never know when the other shoe is going to drop” – “I don’t know” …. or even worse he just wouldn’t answer – look me dead in the eye and stonewall me. He claimed in the end that I was too controlling. I thought in time he would learn given that he basically had a mother who was EU and quite selfish – I just needed to teach him 7 years of my own personal schooling didn’t change him – now I see them kind a dudes all the time. Ladies if you recognize these patterns in someone your dating please please don’t make the mistake of thinking that you can change them, or that they will come around RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN AND SAVE YOURSELF THE HEARTACHE!!
@Smarternow ‘ BUT what I have found is that deep down, I am still trying to prove to him that I am a catch and that he should wise up and realize it.’
This has been my struggle too, and only today it really hit me that they KNOW we’re a catch, and that one day we’ll leave them. So they try to control us with any method possible, when that fails we are discarded.
I think that what many AC’s really want is a woman who appears independent but is prepared to give up everything for him and become dependent on him. His ego is boosted as he then appears to have ‘caught’ a strong woman, but it’s actually all under his terms and his need to control the situation will come out in many different ways. Stonewalling, dripfeeding, gaslighting, whatever – it’s all designed to keep us off kilter and boy does it work.
Sadthing, that was brilliant! I never thought about it that way. But that’s EXACTLY what my ex-fiancee (another closet EUM) told me after we broke up…”I don’t have very good self-esteem, and I was worried that you would leave me first” (so instead he started sleeping with a co-worker — classy, huh?).
But I think you’re absolutely right – it is all about control with these guys, and having lots of women at their fingertips so when one decides she’s had enough, they never have to face the loneliness, regret, etc. that might follow. AC’s have perfected the art of never having to feel the emotions of rejection or missing someone. It’s all about controlling not only the other person, but also their OWN feelings. My most recent EUM told me that every time a relationship starts to become significant, he starts to feel completely anxiety-ridden over it. They can’t handle any kind of strong feelings (good OR bad), so they keep everything deliberately at surface level to avoid putting themselves in a situation where they might begin to care.
You are just so right. Control, control, control. It is maddening, isn’t it?
From “red carpet treatment to xanax to take the edge off of his cockroach assclown treatment†Thank you all for all your horrific stories, I now feel normal. I started to think I was going psycho, and didn’t feel “psycho†until he called me C@R@A@Z@Y! among other names but that one, for some reason really hit home and stung! Why? Because, I was going crazy! We have been together for 3.5 years and he is the biggest assclown ever….. We’ve broken up at least 4 times, for 2 to 3 months at a time, but I missed him so badly I couldn’t bare it and would end up giving in and we would both say “oh we keep getting back together because there is just soooo much chemistry bla bla bla!!!! Now I know its me with all the chemistry in my messed up confused little mind†When I met him, I wasn’t attracted to him, but he sucked me in by rolling out the red carpet, worshiping the ground I walked on, getting the door for me, buying me expensive gifts, I was his arm candy and supposedly, the ONLY one, in all his BMW’s, Ferrari’s, Bentley’s, Porsche’s you name it, he had it. I thought I met my prince, finally wheeewww! When in fact, he’s a cockroach assclown. From the moment his business started growing and he made more money, there was way more arm candy to be bought!!!! It then became a quest to ‘change’ him. Till this very hour, he keeps doing shitty things like disappearing, lying huh!! (last night I think I finally heard the message loud and clear and really listened. As I sat there calling him I was disgusted with my self, not extremely sad, just TIRED and disgusted, after he blew me out for the 5th time within 15days. He said he was going to take his mother and father out for dinner on the day we had plans to hang out, so I called him at 11:30p.m., thinking he should be done, right? After all, his parents are not only divorced, but in their 70’s, anyway, I call to say good night even after feeling disgusted with myself for allowing myself to accept his constant bull@#!% and abuse! I heard music in the background and I asked him where he was and he said he didn’t know what the name of the place was where they were presently at, and that he would call me when he found out! He called me at 7am this morning, asking me where I was all night and asking me what the hell happened to me last night….. I hung up on him twice. I was strong all day, didn’t call or text him. He finally text me at 6pm asking if my children and I would like to join him for dinner, I was strong enough to tell him that I had already made dinner but, thanked him anyway, and left it at that. He has not called or text me since. This is a small example of what I go through everyday, I seriously have come to realization, that I am going nowhere and that he isn’t going to change. I’m tired of discussing, explaining, questioning, arguing, debating, and then switching to ‘thinking’ mode, and still end up with 0% outcome. To make matters worse, I have began taking xanax to take the edge off….. I know that once I get passed him, I’m going to look back and wonder why I ever tolerated any of it. But, for now, I need as much support as you ladies can give, please help me drop this cockroach assclown……Thank you all.
Hello to all,
You are just so right. Control, control, control. It is maddening, isn’t it?
SmarterNow
Can you pls tell me how can i be in more in “contol” of myself when i’m so affraid to let someone down. I’m having now almost 3 months NC but i’m so worry maybe something will happend to him and then i will feel afful because i broke contact. yeah i know i’m so naive and maybe stupid but i just really care about everyone included Mr Unavailable.
Hurt,
What do yo think may happen to him? Please ask also ask yourself if he would have the same concern for you?
Re. the control. The blessing of this nightmare of a relationship has helped me realize that I needed to establish boundaries in every aspect of my life, this includes family as well as friends. When I finally established boundaries-dumped a few toxic people :)-I realized that I had a much more positive support system and was also attracting better people to my life. Good people are attracted to those that love and respect themselves and instill boundaries, and I guess what I’m trying to say-in a long-winded way-is that we cannot continue to extend energy for those who do reciprocate as it is just a waste of time and emotion. The longer you remain in NC the easier it will become for you.
Good luck!
Hurt,
Gayle is completely right! It all comes down to boundaries. I never even knew what this word meant until my lastest AC, and just like Gayle said, once I became aware of it I saw how much I lacked them in every area of my life. I once read an article that said that often “the things we are best at giving are the things we are worst at receiving” – meaning, sometimes we love so much and give so much to others, and excuse people for their poor behavior, but don’t ever expect or require them to do the same for us.
I am SO guitly of this in my relationships – making excuses, oh he is just stressed out, he didn’t really mean it, if I can only give him space he will come around… and all sorts of BS!!! It is our own form of control – if only we are the perfect girlfriend, they will owe us the relationship that we are seeking. If we don’t let them down, they won’t let us down.
But the problem is, he already HAS let you down. I’m sure you are the kind of loving person who is able to see the good parts of him, and you DO care about him and probably will always continue to do so. And that is ok – it is a wonderful gift to be able to focus on the positive aspects of people. However, this is where the boundary part comes in. You can care about them, wish them well, hope they are OK… and still see them for what they are, which is a user, a taker, and someone who probably does NOT care about you. If he did, he would be thinking things like “Oh, I should really stop being such an AC because I love her and don’t want to hurt her.” Do you think this thought EVER crosses his mind? Doubtful.
I know this sounds harsh, but it is the reality with these AC’s. They only view other people in relation to themselves – what they can get from you and how much you’ll give them without requiring anything on their part. And you are probably the kind of person who always thinks about what you can GIVE. It is a fundamental difference in perspective, and people who don’t care about the havoc they wreak on someone else’s emotions are toxic, toxic, toxic.
I know you are afraid of letting anyone down, but what about letting YOURSELF down? Each time you engage with someone who disrespects you in any way, you are sending yourself the message that you are not worthy of anything better. I know that it is SO easy to say and so difficult to do. It took me a long time to even start to believe in this concept, but it really can happen if you commit to it.
One thing that helped me is to make a list of all of the things he has said and done that you would never toleratee from a friend or someone else whom you weren’t in love with. Read it out loud, tell the stories to other people, make a joke out of it… because really, his behavior IS a joke.
Another thing that helped me practice setting boundaries is to start with people I trust. The next time a friend asks you to get brunch when you actually feel like staying in bed and watching a movie, try saying “I’d love to another day, but I feel like staying in bed and watching a movie today.” Just like that. Give yourself permission to say no. If she is truly a friend, she may be disappointed, but she’ll get over it. You will probably feel horribly uncomfortable at first, but once you realize that the friendship won’t collapse if one of you occassionally disappoints the other, your subconscious will start to believe that it is OK to act in your own self-interest.
I don’t know… just some thoughts here. I certainly haven’t perfected the art of boundary-setting, but it is high on my to-do list this year! I am paying so much more attention to the concept now, and life keeps throwing me small chances to practice it in all kinds of situations. It’s amazing how the universe works if you choose to trust the process.
Best of luck to you, be strong in your NC and remember that sometimes leaving the past in the past is the only way to open a new door in the present.
In a process of purgatory of a ten year relationship. The other night i simply said..enough with this crap. i said to her, “i forgive you. i am not going to hold this resentment in anymore or questions. I forgive you for whatever it is you did.If we are going to work on us then everything needs to be laid out and lets move on.” He answer, silence…’i don’t know what to say.”…silence…”i dont know what to say..” I said, “Just be honest, lets get the truth.” She said, “so if i fucked some guy you would be able to forgive me?” I said, ‘yes, i can forgive that. Nothing i can do about it now.” So is that is what you did? her answer, “are you accusing me?’ ..i said “not accusing anyone. just needs to be the truth.” Silence…”you pushed me away…I was so alone.’ i said ‘i understand, but is that what happened.?” No Answer..she tries to change the subject..then claims her battery died on the phone. Thus, I read this to say.. that she is too ashamed to admit it and she doesnt trust I will forgive her.” OR SHE HAS A BOMB THAT SHE DOES NOT WANT TO DROP. LIKE FULL BORE LOVE AFFAIR. thoughts? or experience with this?
dc,
are we married to the same woman? they think we’re stupid or something.
the thing that kills me is what i don’t know. i know she’s been fucking around on me. was it lots of guys and internet dating, one guy she thought she loved? is she over it? why did she string me along instead of doing the decent thing and just leaving for good?
i hate cheaters.
Wow, dc! That’s the first time I’ve heard about an EUF…and sounds to me like that is exactly what/who she is. My advice would be get out of purgatory, drop her like a bad habit and ascend to heaven. Of course, it’s easier said than done, but from what you wrote, she is VERY passive-aggressive and probably has never had any man want her to be honest – she’s so used to lying! As I’ve just learned YESTERDAY as a matter of fact, you CAN’T fix her…she has to do her growing on her own and since you are accepting of her behavior, you can forgive her. You have grown, but she hasn’t. Think about it, why would you want to be with someone who cheats on you? Sounds like it would behoove you to delve some more within and realize that you deserve better and let her go – so you can move on to an EAF who won’t cheat on you, won’t be passive aggressive and will be direct with you.
I am still going through it myself, but I have traded in my rose-colored glasses for bi-focals, so I can look past all of the layers of delusion…
Good luck dc!!
-Autumn 🙂
Autumn:
Thanks, She still wont be completely honest and I do admit my beahvior was disrespectful at times. Apparently last night she went into my facebook account and saw an e-mail that said “I felt like she just got up and left without really explaining anything.” She took that to mean that i have not changed and will not take responsibility for my actions and was blaming her for everything.There was anothre e-mail that said i took responsibility for my actions etc.. but she said that one didnt really matter because of the other. I also tried to delete them because i know they would start a huge fight. I regret that ..but thats honesty. I love her and gave into her way too many times over the last month but it stops now. I cant continue to let her act this way and me not have a scintilla of info other than its my fault. DC
These three posts were exactly what I needed. I was involved with an EUM for two years. He pursued me while I was married and my husband and I were drifting apart. Not a great foundation for a relationship at all. There were red flags – mid-40s, never married, string of relationships etc. He never pressured me to sort out my own issues first, he suggested that we have an affair, and I stupidly went along. I was dazzled by how handsome and talented he was (jazz musician) and felt lucky that he wanted me. At the beginning of our affair it was very intense. He told me he loved me first, he was very attentive to me. Then one night, about a month in, after a disagreement he completely shut down on me and I was bewildered. Thus began a pattern of him shutting down or getting disproportionately angry when he thought I was out of order with my temper or needed his emotional support. Of him consistently cutting contact with me when we had problems, giving me the silent treatment. To make a long story short, I got a divorce, and tried to make a proper go with our relationship. We broke up and got back together so many times, even though I knew that this was a toxic relationship. All my friends told me that this guy was emotionally abusive, but I could not walk away. He could not communicate like an adult, he told me to shut up and swore at me when I articulated my needs or issues with our relationship, he threatened to hit me and at one point, physically shook me (this after using me for sex). In between breakups he’d go to the next girl or flirtation.
My ex constantly drip-fed me with information – when I saw him looking at dating websites, he told me he had no idea how he got email updates about women who matched his criteria. When I found out he invited another girl to go away with him (in between a break up), he lied and said that he would never invite someone else and that we were exclusive. When I found out about him meeting someone for a drink behind my back and lying about it (and also planning a day with her), he told me it was nothing and he didn’t want the bother and trouble which would ensue if he told me, because I’d blow it out of proportion. When I found out that he was pursuing another woman (who was interested and pursued him as well), he told me it was again nothing, and that he had his right to privacy. That was the dealbreaker – him actually moving on with someone else and having an emotional affair (with someone who, by all accounts, has been involved with another EUM for 7 years, and was pursuing my ex behind this guy’s back). And with the drama and emotional angst that f*cked my head in this last month and a half – after me begging him repeatedly to try again, to make this work, to see where our relationship could go, of feeling like someone had literally hooked you at your heart, dragged you around and left you there to bleed – my ex explained his actions as: ‘I don’t know if I can commit to you. This is not whether I want to be with anyone else or etc., it is whether I want to be with YOU. I don’t have time to work on a relationship with you – I’m 46 and I want children, and maybe we’re not right for each other, and maybe this other woman is right for me. I don’t love you anymore. We were getting in deeper and it scared the shit out of me.’ And he has moved on to another relationship without a backward glance as to how much his actions, words and everything have completely destroyed me. He blamed me and my lack of trust of him as colouring and causing our relationship to fail, but he never cultivated that trust with care and compassion. Our beginnings were not conducive to trust, and I couldn’t shake the feeling that something was untrustworthy about him and his actions (if he is willing to cheat with me, he will cheat on me. And I later found out that when he was pursuing / sleeping with me at the beginning of our affair, he had a girlfriend), and he didn’t try to cultivate that trust. I can acknowledge where I went wrong and how my own negative self-belief (and my own emotional unavailability at the beginning) led to this relationship, but it does not stop the pain and feeling of rejection, particularly when he leaves you for another woman.
The more I read these posts, the more I can try to objectively assess my relationship (or non-relationship) with my ex. I went through a self-blaming period (if only I was … he would have committed to me). I am trying to stay with NC and it is very hard. I am trying not to obsess either, and reading this post as well as everything on this website has been like a healing salve to the deep hurt, confusion, and utter devastation that my relationship has brought.
Sorry it has been so long. I’ve been reading other people’s stories here on this site and I have found it has helped. I hope my story can help someone else so they don’t feel alone.
Mel.
Oh. My. God. This is the most spookily accurates (series of) post(s) ever. I don’t know where to begin, it’s that full on. I’ve been with the same guy on and off for nearly five years, the early three years were VERY messed up, together for a month and then not for six and so forth. I blamed myself partly, for being unused to relationships and immature, but he also had a whole series of “why I’m so stuffed up” stories about his ex-girlfriend and how she’s screwed with his head. He had been unpopular at school but then in the last few years became very attractive and very successful with girls – a bigtime player. I was originally over-awed by him finding me attractive, then by his brain, intellect etc – we shared a passion for study. Everything was so hard for those years: then finally early last year we got together “properly” and made a go of it.
It was initially amazing – we essentially moved in together straight away, and it was passionate and loving and extremely intimate. But: he was always rather controlling (didn’t like certain friends, or any of them really – so I stopped seeing them), very insecure about people I’d been with during the breakups before (so I removed all mention of them and tied myself in knots to avoid any hurt to him) and worried by my academic success (so I didn’t apply for things/played down my academic credentials). Hmmm. Warning bells? But by that time we’d been so important to eachother for so long that I was DESPERATELY HAPPY (focus on desperate) that is was “working” so well – and in many ways it was. So I knew he lied about little things, here and there – but I was different, right? Not to me, right? And the player stuff, that just made it more amazing how committed he was to me, right?
To be honest, it was an amazing connection – or at least, I felt like it was. We were sympatico – totally at one with what we wanted and enjoyed (though even as I write I remember all the compromises that I was making, how willing I was to bend to his will.)
Then, we moved cities together, and shit got crazy. Admittedly, I had a bad time – previous dramas came to the fore. One way or another, I started to feel mega insecure about his fidelity – with a number of people, but specially with one girl at work. He was spending too much time, too many little mentions of her – and just like me, she was someone who’s mental history suggested a kind of vulnerability that I knew he’d find attractive.
I accused him outright, so many times, and it just made him all of the above stuff from the post – defensive, attacking, blaming me and my insecurities, refusing to speak to me, making me think it would make him leave me. I would cave every time, apologise, blame myself, tell him how I would change and improve (!) and stop being so neurotic. By mid-year he was saying he needed space, that I was impossible to live with, that we should stay together for a finite period (until March, when we’d planned to travel together) but then that he needed to go on his own, and that he didn’t know whether there would be an “us” in the future, etc etc. He even said – you should be grateful I’m being so honest. Like a fool I said – sure, no worries, I can accomodate that – thanks for your honesty.
Long story short, I was right – about the girl, and about specific incidents. It had started before the conversation in which I agreed to stay with him, despite the cut-off date. The times when I’d been climbing the walls with stress about the future, about why I was so neurotic, about why I was so jealous, about whether I was doing the right thing in staying….I had been at the receiving end of such a partial drip-feed of the truth – and worse, I’d been outright lied to.
The thing was, by that stage I was so worried about my own mental health that I’d seen a pysch, I’d gone on medication, I was concerned I was losing my mind and becoming obsessive – and so when I found emails (which I admittedly snooped to find) he was able to say – see, your jealousy and controlling behaviour drove me to this! And of course, because I’ve ALWAYS been the one who is accomodating, I believed him. So even the breakup is now my fault, his behaviour is my fault, I caused all this and I’m the one who has to change…
It’s too recent for me to be fully across how crap that is: I wax and wane. Suffice to say that good chats with loved ones (bless them, still there for me even though I cut them off for him) and things like this site (which I’ve just found) are absolutely awesomely helpful. With time, I’m confident that I can change the things in me that let me tolerate this behaviour for so long. It’s hard, because even though I know our relationship was really “my” relationship (the one I thought I was having) I derived such strength and love from what i thought it was, that I’m now pushing a barrow of shit up hill, trying to get better without that “support”.
But yes. This is too long, too. If anyone has any thoughts on these expereiences, anything that would help me with the process of getting through this and remembering how to absolve myself of guilt, I would be very grateful to hear it.
You’re whole site is spot on – except for me I am a man and my AC is female! I went non contact for good 2 months ago and it’s torture at times as my mind plays tricks on me but I’m working it through.
I’ve found the info on boundaries and validating to be eye-opening and have started to look at myself rather than at her.
This article on drip feeding is the only one I have replied on because I’m aware this site is not really for men but this one is just so true I had to comment.
My ACF (yep – I’ve just made that up!) stood before me 15 years ago and said she was leaving because she needed big holidays. I dumped her then and then but she kept chasing and I ignored.
Eventually 10 years later I gave in (I was going through a bad patch) .. and we emailed … it took 2 months but she eventually came clean – that time she’d stood infront of me and said she needed holidays she’d actually had someone else’s child growing inside her but didn’t want to tell me … and she actually said in her email the reason .. because I would have dumped her … err, yes!!!
My point here is just to agree – the witholding of information is power for them … and they do it to deny you the ability to make your own judgement of the facts.
2 months after that email I went NC (although I didn’t know it was called that then) as she’d said she was leaving her husband at Christmas (just one more with him for the “family”) and nothing happened so I walked away.
She stalked me for 8 months on email/phone and I never gave in – finally she tricked me calling me from a phone i didn’t know and told me she’d left her husband and had moved to my country and was looking for property right now.
OK – so we met up … and she didn’t have her kids with her, so she said they were at the hotel … who with? I said .. “mumble, mumble ” was the reply, but i camly persisted “you haven’t just left them have you … etc etc ” … eventually (after much yadda yadda) I cornered her logic and she got quite cross and told me that her husband was with her and looking after the kids … (but it was just one last holiday !) … so I kept going … “ok, no problem, let’s go out there together and chat to him .. where are you staying ….”) …
Eventually we get to the truth – she’s on a family holiday with dear hubbie …
SO after being extra patient for 3 hours to get to this truth I then asked her if there was ANY truth in the claim she was house hunting .. guess what .. none at all !!!
So, I asked her why she’d called me and lied … her answer ???? – I knew you would hang up if i told the truth!
Yes of course. So in order to get her own way she withheld info/lied in order to remove from me the right to make my own descision based upon the truth.
And that’s why this article rings a big bell for me …
Sadly (and i’ve read all your articles) she then used all the AC tricks (this is the truth now etc etc) to keep me hooked in for the next 3 years …
It was only on coming across NC descriptions, understanding how my power had been removed from me and that she had no intention of commiting that I was able to finally put names to the strategies and remove myself from the damage zone.
I’m still putting together the pieces of the damage but I am, hopefully wiser, as a result.
Great site – as a guy who got stuck with a player (albeit F) it’s been a real help ….
C
Hi Chris, I just wanted to say – there are quite a few male readers of this site and you are more than welcome to comment. In fact, I will be making a point of doing more to highlight that both sexes can actually be guilty of the same behaviour. I’ve had a lot of emails about female assclowns and am planning to do a post on it. I have to say, your ex is very manipulative. The thing is that you have to remember that she will feel out of control as things aren’t on her terms. She wants you to want her even though she has no intention of actually giving you the commitment you originally wanted. It’s a power struggle – she would rather that you were being manipulated by her than her feeling upset so she is playing these games to kid herself into believing that she has power that she doesn’t. The best thing you could do is continue to be NC and continue to not do as she expects. Unfortunately she is persistent but she will run out of steam eventually. Obviously if she crosses into dangerous territory that’s a police matter. Hopefully it won’t come to that. This woman is incredibly duplicitous – the lies and deceit just keep coming which mean you will *never* get the truth and be in the know. She’s on a need to know basis weaving a web of lies around herself. Highly unattractive!
Thanks NML … you’re absolutely right and I will *love* to read your comment on female assclowns … if you need any supporting material let me know .. I seem to have quite a lot of examples!
What I love about this site is the underlying positivity … it’s very focused on helping a normal people to
a) understand and recognise that ass clowns exist
b) then to understand that it doesn’t make one bad to have been taken in by one
c) from these two foundations to then focus on how we, as decent people, can use this experience to develop boundries, learn a bit more about ourselves and really grow our lives
I’ll keep reading 🙂
Chris