When I worked in advertising, I’d have to deal with clients who wanted a price reduction based on previous experience with advertising with another company or publication. If you work in sales or run your own business, this scenario is very common and one of three things is likely to happen:
You’re going to walk away.
You’re going to basically end up counselling and coaching them over their previous experience in order to convince them into buying your service or product.
You’re going to devalue your own product/service to compensate for their previous experience.
Sound familiar? Well it will do if you’ve been the Fallback Girl (or Guy) who has spent their time trying to convince and convert someone who is reluctant to try dating, to try a relationship, to commit etc., because of their previous experiences.
You’ll be particularly familiar with this if you’re a Buffer in a rebound relationship, effectively acting as an emotional airbag that helps their partner to make the transition from a previous relationship that they’re not emotionally (and possibly legally) detached from. If you’re playing Florence Nightingale and trying to fix/heal/help so that they can be fit for relationship purpose, then you’re also feeling the effects of a ‘price reduction’ based on previous experience with somebody else.
These situations are tough because we’re empathetic and sympathetic enough to recognise some of what that person may be going through. If they’re very forthcoming about the experience (and likely revealing their anger, hurt, sadness, disillusionment etc in the process), we may feel particularly sympathetic and understanding to the point where we may decide to park our own needs, expectations, feelings etc, so that we can give this person a chance to get their wings. We’ll show them how great we are and how they don’t need to worry and how we’re basically an entirely different person and situation, and yet we end up feeling devalued and possibly like an armchair psychologist.
Whenever I tried to work with clients like this, what became apparent was that they said that they were interested but they were also quite skeptical, and that’s dicey territory when you apply that into interpersonal relationships.
When you’re coming from a position of skepticism versus one of open-mindedness, as well as a being present and having a level of trust, you’ve effectively already made up your mind even if you won’t admit it plus you’re gun shy. It also becomes somebody else’s responsibility to solve your internal issues and that’s a fast slide down a slippery slope.
Another issue I found was that it was very tricky to upgrade these clients to the correct pricing because I’d set the tone plus it was also the value they attributed to it. By compromising, they interpreted this as me ascribing their value to it, not as me giving them a trial, so I stopped. Some eventually came on board and the ones who didn’t – they went and found somewhere that they could value and treat similarly.
When you’re in this situation, the person who wants to manage down your expectations and wants you to accept less input from him/her, is living in the past.
They also don’t value you for who you are or aren’t willing to go through discovery and let you and the interaction unfold because they don’t want to ‘spend’. They’re on an economy drive on your time. Sure you’ll keep thinking of the ‘good times’ and the ‘good points’ but on reflection, it’s a with one hand they giveth and with the other they taketh away situation. Next thing you know, you’re giving them the price reduction in the form of some sort of ambiguous setup or a casual relationship where you have to go with the flow and are afraid to rock the boat. They may say that you’re in a relationship but then undermine any progress by passive aggressively sabotaging things each time it feels like you’re going somewhere. I know of so many people who get dumped or have fights picked with them after seemingly happy occasions such as birthdays, weekends away or meeting the family.
You can fall into the trap of giving them the equivalent of a low introductory APR and free balance transfers on a credit card, with the view that given enough time, they’ll see that you’re not the same as the past and will see all of your great qualities. Many of you already know where that ends up: You feel devalued and unappreciated in an imbalanced relationship where there’s three of you in it whether it’s the shadow of the ex, or the elephant that is their unresolved and very much impacting issues.
It’s one thing when you discount a product or service but it’s another thing when you sell you short.
You’re not an interchangeable commodity; you’re an individual entity with your own feelings who is entitled to expect a mutual relationship (if it’s what you want) and who has no business compensating for where others have erred. You have to tidy up from your own experiences and learn from the insights gained… and they do too. These situations are painful to acknowledge and walk away from. Very often you end up feeling guilty. You think that you’re being impatient and demanding by expecting a person who expects you to stick around and meet their needs etc on their terms (while sidelining your own), to get their emotional house in order and value you for who you are instead of devaluing you based on the past.
Their past and any problems aren’t yours to fix; they’re theirs. If a person’s solution is to reduce you so that they can remain in their comfort zone and essentially enjoy things on their terms, it’s time to know your own worth and back away.
Your thoughts?
Add to favorites
Rebound relationships help nobody. The recently broken up party only delays the process of getting over their ex, whereas the Fallback girl/guy is falsely led into thinking they have a robust relationship, only to invariably be met with heartbreak down the line.
That was a fantastic post, Natalie, and as usual, you’ve read my mind and my e-mail to see that until recently I was dealing with a con artist (and a former lover from 10 years ago) who was treating me like a flawed product that she got on sale at a cheap discount store.
Every time I walked away, missed her and returned, I was returning to who I wished she was and not the passive aggressive bullshit artist she actually is.
Some bargains are not valuable to the buyer because they cost so little, something must be wrong with them. That’s how I was being treated.
Rebounders, also know known as wing-walkers, hate the thought of being alone so they always seem to have one or more “options” waiting in the wings. Once I realized I was being told I was the love of her life, brilliant and hot (and all that other crap), but being treated like a toy she only took off the shelf when she felt like it, it was time to admit to myself that I let the flattery and bullshit fool me into thinking that, after 10 years of maturing, this conniving grifter was now sincere.
She wasn’t, so I dumped her stupid ass.
Now when I find myself missing her, I remind myself the person I miss was just a figment of my imagination, so instead I do 10 or 20 ab crunches and ride my bike for half an hour. That way when I stop missing the mirage I created, I’ll have tighter abs, firmer legs and feel more confident when I meet someone I want to be with.
Karen – your sentence ‘Everytime I walked away, missed her and returned, I was returning to who I wished she was…’ that just struck a huge chord with me. I think that is exactly what I was doing…and trying to make my hopes come true. My ex EUM hides behind sarcasm, is emotionally unavailable, and is a good bullshiter/manipulator. I am glad I read that.
Thanks, Stacey. I just figured something out that has been puzzling me for some time now.
If I am someone who is vehemently opposed to cheating, why then do I keep attracting cheaters into my love life?
Easy.
It’s because I am attracted to cheaters. If I wasn’t, they wouldn’t be allowed to get anywhere near me.
If I hate cheating, then why would I be attracted to cheaters? Not so easy,
but I suspect I may not be all that emotionally available, so I subconsciously attract rats I know I will probably end up dumping. By dumping losers all the time, I can play the victim and it also frees me up from having to be authentic, sincere and emotionally available. If I am EU because I am afraid of getting hurt, then that is the issue I need to explore next, because everyone gets hurt at one time or another, and I’ve unintentionally hurt others myself. So maybe the bottom line is, I just need to woman-up and trade a chance for a healthy, happy relationship for my silly fears about getting hurt.
I’ve been hurt before and I got over it, so what’s the big deal?
p.S.
Usually, I prefer to blame the ex for this kinda stuff, but in this case I think I’ve been the rat who’s been screwing myself.
Hmm. How embarrassing.
:/
Karen- You might be attracting these types but make no mistake- you are choosing them.
Yep Karen….you nailed that one.
I finally extricated myself when I realized he was never going to be the guy I wanted him to be (and once believed he was).
If there’s a ‘secret’ to it, that’s it.
Hi Karen:
I read your post more than once, and with each word I identified with my relationship with my ex who has a narcissistic personality. I had only been dealing with her for almost 2 years. I pursued her and she was on the rebound. I had never been in a relationship with a woman. She was my first, but She didn’t really want me or a relationship with me. But eventually she grew to love me but it wasn’t the kind of love that I deserved.
There was nothing right about me. I was always reminded of what I was lacking. There was no physical interaction for almost a year. No matter what I did or changed about me there was always something that I was lacking.
We broke up several times, but each time, I felt so empty like I was missing oxygen. I felt lost without her.
It was during out last break up when she got with somebody else, and I when I found out, I thought I would never recover. I thought I was going crazy. I was overwhelmed with love and loss.
She begged me to come back but it was the same old shit. She hadn’t changed, but I had because I wasn’t the same. I knew I deserved better, and I told her that what she didn’t want. Somebody else would. She didn’t want me but didn’t want anyone else to have me.
It was a constant back and forth until just last week. We stopped speaking after I cancelled a night out with her. I haven’t spoken to her since and I refuse to contact her. There is no reason why I should. I know better is out there for me, and as much as I will always love her. I love me more.
I wish you the best Karen. Thanks for sharing your story with me. I thought I was alone.
I used to observe the way my ex’s words and actions never matched, how she blew hot and cold and other annoying behaviors, and I kept a journal and kept track of patterns that would lead to discord and upset between us. As patterns emerged I started Googling key words to try to figure out if she was as crazy as I thought. Finally on Ask.com I found an article about passive aggressive personality disorder and damned if it didn’t describe her to a T.
Finally I knew what her deal was, so then I read about living with or dating one and I thought to myself, well someone will be codependent enough to put up with her bullshit, but I won’t. We have all heard the term passive aggressive and I thought it just described an individual instance, but no, no, no. When someone is a PA, they can drive you crazier than a rat in a coffee can.
The best way to avoid getting trapped with another one is to work on any codependent tendencies we may have and that helps to keep them from latching on and being emotional vampires.
P.S. One more detail I thought was hilarious about the assclown I just dumped. 10 years ago when we were a couple, I was so traumatized after putting up with her off and on for 3 years, when we reconciled last fall I had literally blocked out huge chunks of memory about our affair. She very kindly offered to fill me in on all the details I had forgotten, and her recollections sounded a hell of a lot more palatable than what little I recalled, but I took her word for it because her version sounded so enticing. Last night I found a journal I had written back when I was seeing her a decade ago. It turns out she was just as crazy and passive aggressive back then as she is now. No wonder she offered to take me on a stroll down memory lane. She wanted to set me up for second round of torture.
These types love to seduce, conquer and discard, but if they can bag the same person twice, that is apparently upping their game to a tournament level. We are not in contact, but if she dares to try, I am going to try to stuff that journal through the tiny holes on my cell and tell her eat it. Then I will end the conversation with two words, and the second word is YOU! 🙂
Neuroticdater,
THANK YOU.
If I had a nickel for every time someone said I needed to date someone else to get over my ex, I could get an iphone 5.
It’s absurd, mad, and just base wrong to use a romantic pursuit to work out your hurt and smooth over that giant bruised ego.
I had men interested in me that I did in fact turn down to not being over my ex. Don’t regret it a bit!
I know when I’m in an ideal place, I’ll meet a perfectly suitable partner, not when I’m sniveling over someone who did me wrong.xx
Peanut
Right on the money with that one, unfortunately so many cannot take even one month off to be with themselves. I spent most of my adult life alone either in healing or in waiting no joke.
the waiting thing I will never do again and the reason that all started is from a young age I was getting these types that did not want me, but did not want anyone else to want me, just left me so damn confused.
And now that I can only look back as each as a coward in some way I only regret having wasted all that time, but still.. at least I was not jumping all over the place.
Just got done being the rebound girl. Admittedly, I’d still be in it if he hadn’t disappeared (likely back with his ex). Struggling with my self-esteem right now, but live and learn 🙂
This article just gave me a heck of a lot of insight as to why I was dumped after spending ALL of the holidays with my BF and his family! Hindsight is a #$^*(!
I understand exactly how you are feeling right now. Hold your head high! You will make it through!
Thank you LL!! You too!
I’m sorry to hear that Chica… I was the rebound girl last year and finally made it through to the other side and you will too I promise!
“you.
not wanting me.
was
the beginning of me.
wanting myself.
thank you.”
Be kind to yourself, you deserve it xx
I love that quote!!!! I have always been the rebound girl because I have been the only one that has stayed with him and encouraged his bad behavior for the past 3 years. I get crumbs when he is out of luck with other bed partners. I haven’t slept with him since before Christmas, and really haven’t seen him but a handful of times. Why? Because he knows I am retreating and won’t sleep with him again…therefore he isn’t interested.
He ALWAYS brings up all the women in his life in some shape or form just so I know that he is adored. Right? ;-)) But the midnight text still keep coming, or the 10:00 p.m. invitations to his house. I have ignored recently. So I get a text from him last night that said “Are you getting laid?” Ha! When I asked why he would ask me that question, he didn’t respond. Three years of my life wasted on exhaustion, humiliation and ego.
I like this from Coco Ginger:
“I refuse to believe you did not love me. For I am too lovable to not have been loved by a villain as monstrous as you. But if facts be true, being…your heart does not beat, your soul cannot sign, and your conscience fled long ago, then I understand. You could not love…lovable as I am.”
Sorry…that should be “your soul cannot sing.”
wow… that’s brilliant
Be strong Rewind, do not go back to him he is killing your soul 🙁
This poem by Warsan Shire is great too:
http://exceptindreams.livejournal.com/389716.html
x
Oh expect a call if that don’t work out, jump around types always return… But usually when your completely over them even if that took years, LOL!
This is sooooooo true, and actually sort of related to a recent experience. I had commented about it in another post here but I don’t think it was the right post. It’s more for this one, so I’ve reposted here. Sorry for the narcissism 😉 but I’d like to see what you all think:
Hi everyone. It’s been a while since I posted, but I’ve still been reading and learning from everyone here. 🙂 Those of you who remember, my “Mr. One Month” has a girlfriend and they love bomb each other on Facebook. Good for them. I’ve since blocked him and don’t really care.
I also had an interesting encounter with a bus drive some two years back. Well, another interesting development with that POS. A year ago (Nov. 2012) he tried telling me about how he and his girlfriend were fighting and she had gone off to California to visit her son and that she was going to ‘give him (bus driver) her answer about what I assumed to be whether or not she wants him to leave, blah blah, right? Well, after digging around on Facebook I had found lots of pics of them all lovey dovey, so when he tried to come back that Christmas (2012) looking to get laid (while all his kids and inlaws visiting from out of town were in the girlfriend’s house…I kid you not), armed with my new information, I did NOT let him in my house, I was civil yet cold, and sat there on my porch while he continued to lie to me and feed me all kinds of BS about their relationship. It was SO INCREDIBLY EMPOWERING, and hilarious, to sit there and know he was lying. Sooooooooo, fast forward a year, this past weekend to be exact, I’m sitting at home in peace listening to some CDs when suddenly I hear a knock on my door. Didn’t think anything of it until – you know when you get flashes of intuition about something yet you don’t exactly know what or why? – I stopped dead in my tracks and waited. Another knock. Ok. So I tip-toe towards the door and put my ear up to it. I hear bus driver’s voice (“come on, Kathy”), he knocked again. In fact, he stood there and knocked for AT LEAST five minutes. Finally he gave up and left. I was very proud of myself for ignoring him. Curiosity had gotten the better of me so I looked on Facebook to see if I could shed light on this latest. Apparently his GF was in Florida over the weekend. And, AND, not only that, he was love-bombing her all over the place on Facebook while she was away. OMG was I disgusted. I do admit that a small part of me was tempted to open the door; you know, it’s the stuff we all here suffer with, loving someone even though we know it’s not right for us. But if I had, all the work I’ve been doing this last year would have been for nothing and I’d have to start all over again. I would have believed anything he told me about his ‘situation’ as he liked to put it. But now, since I ignored him, I can see the words of one of Nat’s posts (I can’t remember the title but it had something to do with when someone like this comes back into your life after months or even years and we get nostalgic and think it’s meant to be, soulmates, love of our lives kind of thing): why would someone who I’ve not seen or heard from in over a year suddenly show up on my doorstep??? I had given him my number, so if he really cared he could have called, right???? I’m so much wiser now than I was a year ago. Obviously the feelings are still there a bit but I knew I never wanted to revert back to where I was a year ago. And even though Facebook stalking isn’t exactly healthy, it’s helped me see the truth of his ‘situation’, and now I can re-block him knowing just how big the pile of sh*t he is and that I was right to ignore him.
kayakgirl, high five for ignoring that lame dude. He is a huge waste of time, and space.
I had a similar situation with an EUM POS. It was horrible when I realized he’d only contact me when his girlfriend was away — I don’t care what anyone says, Facebook/Twitter/Instagram doesn’t ruin relationships, it highlights behavior. — under the guise they’d broken up; she was cheating blah blah.
He ended up ditching me for another girl who was better looking and had more cash. Then he ditched her for someone who knew nothing about his ways. He is the king of love bombing on social media.
Fast forward to late last year on the heels of my breakup, this jackass sends me one of his “fishing” texts. Needless to say, he didn’t get a response. He will NEVER get a response. I’d already blocked him on FB, so I finished the job on Twitter.
Guys like this will get what they deserve.
I’m pretty sure I’ve been the rebound/fall back girl more times than I’d like to admit; then guys wonder why I have trust issues. Trust is earned.
Any decent guy would not demand you trust them and just know that, lessons learned the hard way.
Slow down, slow down, and if they can’t? Well then run like hell, run like Satan is on your tail no matter how good the tail may have been.
Kayak girl,
Thank you for your post, it helped me. I have a dude just like bus driver dude. I am getting so tired of how married men hit on single girls. Yes I got involved with one, ok two, but now I know what a sleazy and hurtful thing it is. Never again. Good for you and thank you for setting an example for me to follow. 🙂
Kayak girl,
Thank you for your post, it helped me. I have a married separated dude just like bus driver dude. I am getting so tired of how married men hit on single girls. Yes I got involved with one, ok two, but now I know what a sleazy and hurtful thing it is. Never again. Good for you and thank you for setting an example for me to follow. 🙂
Hi oregongirl,
Yeah, it is a very hurtful thing. These guys, at least the bus driver, know exactly what to say to a woman and how to say it, to get us hooked. I’m working on the stuff that enabled me to get hooked in the first place, but there is no way I’m to fully blame for his character flaws. This dude is 58 fricken years old, tells people on Facebook about how ‘we sometimes forget what matters in life, home, kids, family, friends, blah blah blah’, tells his girlfriend (who he’s living with) that he loves her ALL THE WHILE KNOCKING ON MY DOOR EXPECTING TO GET LAID while the girlfriend is out of town. You know why he ‘loves’ her?? Because she provides his sorry retired ass a house to live in for free. His actions speak otherwise. Before I blocked him on FB, I had read that he made his girlfriend attend a football (American) game in freezing temps, about three weeks after her major surgery. She had said that it was very painful but she was glad he made her go. REALLY?? Can you imagine how low this woman’s self esteem must be? After that I blocked him, knowing everything I needed to know. Then he comes a’knockin’ on my door again. Sheezuz. I had hoped and prayed that he had changed for the better, for his family. Guess not. At 58 my guess is he won’t either. It may appear that he has on social media, but I know otherwise. Poor woman….
Hang in there, oregon. You got this!
More than likely though the feelings were for a false self he was pretending to be since he disgust you.
Nah you do not need a “disgusting pig” love situation any more than I need a I can only get let down by this jerk love situation.
For me if they come back.. it’s only becasue I am really over them, LOL!
“Frustrating it was when I was in the middle of wanting to be wanted, and not getting wanted – to usually know when I no longer wanted them that they will think they want what they really do not want – but just want to see if they are wanted.”
And that is ALL the crap I NO longer want.
Thank you.
Sadly, I was a rebound — and in the aftermath, when he went back to his ex, it was one of the worst experiences ever. Never knew I could hurt so deeply. Still recovering, feeling much stronger and less like the biggest fool, albeit I have to see his smug face at work so it’s challenging. Lifelong lesson learned.
I’m so sorry Sanntay. I can’t imagine seeing my ex at work every day. That must be torture 🙁
Thanks R-Chica. Like you, I’d probably still have been in it if he hadn’t cut me off so coldly and abruptly. I’m not smarting so much from the FACT that he did it, it was the WAY that he did it.
Oh gees, I can relate to this too. I read your posts and as I do I smack my forehead with my palm. Durrrrr I’m such a ditz to have fallen for this bullshit. The aftermath is painstakingly, soul destroying and quite frankly, crap!
Excellent article/insight. Thank you. Couldn’t have come at a better time. I’m guilty of recently doing what you described in the article and trying to get back to myself …
This was so right on time. Rebound guy disappeared, I should have known but he was so great at first. Well until he disappeared. Now I’m holding my heart in my hand. And now I am the rebounder, but decided to not date until the rebound guy is out of my system. Thank you!
Hi Sina
I am the same too. I was a rebound, and he had some mental health issues as a result of his previous ex. I thought I could handle it all, and as such I worried more about him than whether my needs were being met. Definitely understand about having our hearts in our hands. Hugs to you.
Love nel
Hi lovely Nel,
…..and then they go and pass on their mental health issues to us.
and I repeat….. Tossers!
Dearest Poppy! I don’t know about you, but I was just a counsellor to him, really – there to listen to all his woes, life problems, money dramas, his ‘awful’ ex, his ‘horrible’ sister, his ‘terrible’ family, his ‘crappy’ friends – the list goes on really. (Nothing was EVER his fault, of course). Everyone to blame and everyone else’s fault! I’m horrified just typing this! (Why does the past reveal itself so clearly six months down the track, and when I put it in writing? In any case, I am getting stronger every day, because of this site and you gorgeous ladies).
And I am sure he holds me firmly responsible for the end of our relationshit too. And wouldn’t have the slightest clue of how I may have felt (horribly depressed and do you know that quote from Shrek – “I’M A DONKEY ON THE EDGE”). That was me. I was a donkey on the edge. But yes, no clue about the mental health issues he may have inflicted. Total tosser. Best word in the dictionary (and if it’s not in there, it needs to be). *Kick in the shins, ex-EUMs*. Love to you Poppy! Nel x
<3 Nell,
I totally relate. I was so clearly his counselor/rebound chick. Listening about horrible ex-wife, horrible boss, horrible parents, horrible siblings… Hmmm, now he can join their ranks since he is a horrible Mr.EUM.
It is funny when the fog of loneliness and desperation lift how clearly you can see ass-hole behavior for what it was.
Yes, kick in the shins with steel toed boots 😉
Hi Hina
They sound very similar. I am sorry to hear of your past too. I hope your fog of desperation and loneliness has lifted?
My bee in my bonnet is why can’t some people (namely, ex-EUMs) neither acknowledge nor accept blame? Do they really see themselves as perfect? Are they lacking in that much self-awareness? It seems so!
Hugs to you. And yes, steel-capped boots it is!
Love Nel
JUST got out of this exact relationship. I was the rebound chick and didn’t want to see it although it was blatantly obvious. Talk about a lot of hurt! I was not myself and felt like i couldn’t be me because i didn’t want to be compared to his ex (which happened anyway in an almost verbally abusive way). I thought I could help him heal and realized too late that i shouldn’t have even put myself in the that position because that’s something he needed to do on his own. I felt totally worthless and devalued, lower than low.
He initially came on so strong it was too rushed but i was vulnerable and fell in love with him. WRONG move on my part. But I am learning to forgive myself and think about why I allowed myself to stay and deal with that type of situation, and to be honest that’s the scariest part and what hurts the most, that I’m responsible for staying. It’s scary, realizing the role I played and for what? For nothing but anxiety, heartbreak, confusion, and a massive loss of self and self esteem. I could cry for the person I was and just thinking about what I took myself through. He did the very least and got the very most from me. Thank God I woke up.
So now that we are no longer together, thank GOD, and the dust is settling i’m returning to the authentic me and I’m feeling better. Still sad some days but I have no desire to return to him or that situation. It’s amazing what no contact will do. No more talking, texting, facebooking, NOTHING…. Almost 3 months clean. I got rid of my facebook because i was still policing his page and making myself miserable. I blocked him from calling and eventually had to change my number because he started calling and texting from other numbers. Thought I had blocked his email but someone an email slipped through UGH, funny how they can feel when you’re moving on just fine without them they want to “come around” and now all of a sudden i’m the one for him, and he loves me and misses me. SMH. It’s disgusting how they try to reel you back in only to try and bring you back down. I would never do that to him, let alone anyone else. But its not going to work on me this time. I look at him and feel somewhat disgusted. I’m proud of me. I’ve got my smile back. I’m glowing again. I’m still learning, but at least I know better. I’ve got a lot to offer, just have to be sure to give it to the right one next time.
If anyone is going through this type of rebound situation, get out and don’t look back! It just not worth it!
Thanks for this article, it definitely hits home. It’s nice to know that we are not alone. And what you said about the fight picking, of course it was always my fault. Ugh, thank goodness he’s no longer in my life.
recent relationship was a new divorcee “not looking for a relationship” which was fine with me — but he was fostering an online reconnection with his highschool sweetie before we met and all through us having a fwb thing — and now they are planning on being together — can’t figure out which one of us is the rebound, the one he falls in love with or the one he’s buddies / fwb with (me) ?! I don’t mind really as I’m working thru my own unavailabilities — never experienced this one before though! Luckily I really am nothing like his ex as far as he’s concerned so I didn’t have to be someone other than who I am – which is why we get along so well as buds – still cant figure this one out but oh well!
Oh my Gawd same situ as me! My ex AC dumped me for this lass he loved way before me. I have a gut feeling his other relationships ended due to her, his feelings for her…etc. swore blind to me that she was just his best friend and that i was the special one..what a complete load of BS. Dumped me by ignoring me & not telling me until I found out on FB.
works for OW and rebound sitches
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rxgp7TJhUE
Being the rebound is a sick and awful feeling. When a guy talks about his ex very much, I’m out. If you can’t show up in a relationship with me ready, then I have no time. Why tell me about the funny thing she said? Why tell me one of her nipples is weird? Why tell me you miss things about her? Really? I miss my ex’s dick….how you feel about that? Silence….then the sound of me walking.
While building the courage to start dating, I’ve been reading on line profiles and have found 7 out of 10 talk about their last bad relationship IN THEIR PROFILE. What a turn on! If they mention drama, I’m wary of them and their negative projection. At least they give us fair warning though, if we’re listening. It’s time we listen and not make up the story line in our hopeful heads. An ex should be in the past, not a sore spot, and not a measuring stick of how you do or don’t measure up. I know a guy who cannot be alone for a week, jumps from girl to girl with the desperate ex always willing and littered in between girls. I was one of the girls, until I figured it out, But if I’m honest, the info was there, I was just more interested in the attention than the truth. The truth caught up and kicked my ass. She stalked me for a bit and left notes on my car, smashed beer bottles on driveway, etc. I washed my hands of both of them and refuse to even talk to this guy now. He tries, but I am cold as ice. I don’t care how good looking he is…he’s not healthy in the head. I’m just too BR educated now, and boy is it liberating to just pass on these losers.
my ex told me once when we were dating that if we weren’t together and his ex wife and another woman he had feelings for in the past came and asked for another chance, he would give them a chance. I am like whhhhhhaaatt?? That made me feel crappy.
Thank you Selkie, I liked your comment, and it made me laugh. Good info for us to learn from.
Hilarious lines, Selky!
To summarize your points, if someone you’re dating is still picking at the scabs an ex left there, it’s gross and it’s obviously not yet healed.
Unless you’re a human Band-Aid, run like Hell. Accepting a rebounder is like going to a restaurant and eating the food other diners left on their plate. Ugh.
Wow again Natalie you have a way of zooming in on things. My heartbreak of ending a relationship with a guy who wanted to be friends but wanted other benefits was exactly the feeling of being devalued.
A feeling of good enough to bide time with good to spend the weekend with if no better offer came along but not good enough commit to. After each occasion spent with him I would spend several more feeling sad about a relationship going nowhere. I loved him plenty but fact is you cannot make a man love you if his heart is not in it. His not willing to commit made me feel insecure.
Thanks for your insight and this wonderful website
Alia
This is such a well- written article, Thanks Again Natalie!
Yes, big red flags when a man tries to control the relation on a past relationship.
I met a seemingly nice man in my neighborhood a few weeks ago & we’ve been talking and planning on a very public walk on our beach. However, I believe he’s mentioned three times who he managed to loose two beautiful homes and an x-wife that he proclaims to be friends with. Yards yards, fine,. But my ears perked up on our last combo when he told me he was not the “marrying kind”. In other words, he is already managing down my expectations and setting arena for him to call the shots .
Ha whatever. I didn’t bother to take his call tonight and found something more fun to do in my home. I might take a walk with him, but I will make it clear that I have no interest in hearing him hash over his past and using me as a soundboard to relieve himself of his own obsessive thoughts.
I’m going to visit family and friends for a few weeks, and during that time will break a Facebook stalking habit… The person I read about is on the roller coaster with my X. Her daily blah blah is more interesting than movie on LifeTime for Women., but it really keeps me enmeshed and it is negative for me. Glad spring will soon be here and I can ride my bike at beach… Walked there myself today & got some fresh sir n happiness. FB stalking is info that keeps us involved & keeps hurting. My aim is to break my little spy habit!!
I am communicating with a man who told me he is not over his ex and isn’t ready to date (even though he is attracted to me) and doesn’t want a rebound relationship, but he wants to be friends with me. I respected this, he told me when we went on a lunch date, our first get together. Then after the date I felt down and thought, he told me he is unavailable now, and what am I supposed to do with this. I told him this in an email. Anyways, he has been calling me everyday and leaving messages, sends me long emails and tonight we spoke for over an hour and tomorrow we are meeting for breakfast, all as supposed friends. I feel somewhere that I might be fooling myself here, even though he says he isn’t available for a relationship, I feel like we are getting ti know each other.I told him in an email that I don’t know if I believe men and women both attracted to each other can be friends. I’ll see how it goes, but after our phone converstion I am finding myself feeling bored, but I think what I am doing is suppressing my feelings of liking him because I don’t want to be emotioanlly available for him either sinc ehe isn’t for me. It’s all weird, plus he is an ex drug addict, clean for 25+ years, but still saying he is in recovery and goes to 12 step programs and I have never dated one before. Any thoughts on this and does it look like I am a rebound person for him. I kinda feel like one, even though it is friends.
Run!!!
CC
He’s not over his ex and he isn’t ready to date. On the other hand he enjoys female company and attention.
That may or may not work for you. Not ever interaction with a man needs to lead to lifelong commitment.
Still, the ex drug addict, recovery, 12 step programs etc sounds like a recipe for naval-gazing, hot air, inaction and confusion for weeks and months and years.
Grace,
Thanks! You are so right with the navel-gazing. He processes more than I do or as much and I have never met a man like this before. What do you mean by hot air? And yes, I am afraid of the state of confusion that might go on for who knows how long.
Take this to heart from the fabulous Greg Behrendt. Somebody that wants to be your ‘friend’ is saying so because they have some VERY unfriendly things in mind. All the perks with zilch to put into it.
You have described the classic “let’s be friends” scenario. You’ll be used, abused and emotionally eviscerated. Get out now.
It sounds like you’ve got feelings for him and you’d like an available relationship. I think it’s appropriate to end it. And maybe be open to continuing at a later date when he becomes emotionally available and wants to be in a mutual relationship. Trying to be ‘just friends’ when you are attracted and have feelings is a recipe for lots of emotional pain.
Regarding his sobriety and continued ‘recovery’ in 12 step programs….that’s not necessarily a bad thing. I have close family members who still go to AA. A lot of what goes on isn’t about abstinence…it’s about continually working on patterns of behaviour, ‘character defects’, etc, and getting ongoing support. Much like what we do here on BR…except our drug of choice isn’t alcohol, it’s unhealthy relationships. “Being in recovery” is kinda like a buzzword phrase for getting support for personal growth. But just like anything, people are always at different points in their ‘development’.
And here’s a little trick that’s fool proof to test if what you’ve got is really ‘just friendship’….if this was all happening exactly the same, but with a woman, would you be feeling confused, etc. like you are now with this man? Remember….throwing around the word ‘friends’ is often an open sesame for casual sex, casual relationships…..and lotsa emotional pain. You already know what to do. You’ve already answered all your own questions. TRUST YOUR GUT 🙂
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/can-men-women-just-be-friends/
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/casual-relationships-all-the-fringe-benefits-of-a-relationship-without-the-actual-relationship/
Dunrob and Grace
Thanks for your advice. I do have feelings for him. After our conversation last night, I found myself feeling unsafe and scared. Today I met with him for brunch. Yes, I am very attracted to him and prefer him in person than over the phone. I told him how I felt, even though I found myself very guarded around him becasue I have feelings for him. He said he has feelings for me too and does like me more than a friend, but he needs time to heal and isn’t available for anything more right now. I asked him if that seems fair to me and he said, no, he said it may look like he is stringing me along, to which I said, yes, it does. So, I asked what he thinks is the best course of action considering both of our needs. He said, that yes it might be best if he takes the time to heal and come back to me later. I said that does seem like good solution otherwise I might feel upset and it might sabotage anything we could have in future. Actually I said i might sabotage it, but i like what I just said here better. So, that’s where we left it, but I feel so unsure about that too. And honestly, this morning before I met with him, I was thinking maybe a guy who’s too much into processing (comes across as self absorbed) might be too much for me or not a good fit because he doesn;t feel stable to me, at least not when I talked with him on the phone when the attraction was not present. I don’t laugh much with him, but I think that’s because of feeling vulnerable because of my feelings for him. He did tell me a joke because he could see we needed to lighten up. It seems so emotional with us and serious, not necessarily in a bad way because there couls be depth there. I have to say I am also afraid of the ex drug addict thing. I kept wondering if he was still using when he went to the washroom for a little longer than I thought was normal. I have never considered dating an ex addict and never have, so that doesn;t help my feelings of vulnerability.
CC – keep trusting yourself and trusting your gut. Good for you…it’s not always easy to step away, but it’s the best thing to do in this situation. It might be good to go No Contact as well. Clear cut. To take care of you. Keep reading BR and look for stuff to support your decision so you don’t second guess and jump back in if he comes calling. Take good care of you 🙂
He’s telling you the truth. He likes you more than as a friend. He likes you as a friend-with-benefits. What’s that….12 letters more, I think.
You think that by *stating* your ground rules, he is bound to a contract to act according to your game plan, so if you two move forward he knows that means he has committed himself to a relationship with you.
Those are YOUR rules. Not his.
Then when you have sex and he disappears, I guess you’ll be all up in his kool-aid about how he said…uh, no…how he ….what? How he promised to live by YOUR rules? When did that happen, exactly…?
Not saying he’s a deliberate conniver. But you are obviously pushing the fact that further involvement means some sort of commitment or promise to a try at a relationship. And he is dancing just shy of a promise…because he is not commitment material and knows he cannot say that to you and expect to get you.
Your gut is speaking and you are second-guessing it. Slow down and see if you even like this guy for the long haul. I sense you’re not really that in to him but you’re trying to force it for some reason. (not judging; I’m familiar with that..)
Dun,
Thanks, interesting perspecitve about the AA crowd. Have never dated anyone from AA or NA which is what this guy belongs to. A lot of processing goes on like for us with unhealthy relationships. Thanks!
CC – RUN! Do not sleep with him…do not fall into fwb, do not give him anything. He will break your heart. He hasn’t dealt with his past and he will just bring it into your life.
He just setting you up for sex, you realize that, right? Then, after the sex, there will be: him disappearing, you feeling duped because sex to YOU meant he was more invested in having a *relationship*, he’ll feel misunderstood because he did say he was stuck on someone else…. Ungh. All bad weather ahead, I’m afraid.
Stacey and Elgie
You could be right. He did tell me that he did not want a rebound relationship and he did not want sex, although today at lunch he admitted to wanting to kiss me and that he likes me as more than a friend. It could be a set up, plus with the addiction in his past, who knows. He said he wanted to take it slow today when I challenged him on the friends thing (I wrote about it in my last post here a few minutes ago) I said I want to take it slow too, but I want to know that we are both clear to move forward in th esame direction and he is not clear now. Yes, it could be a set up or it could be just plain honesty and unreadiness. After all, he wasn’t looking and I just appeared and I did invite him down for coffee we met at my church. How do you think he should act as a man of integrity?
Cc
You should consider more how you should act as a woman with boundaries.
Good question. How do YOU think a man of integrity should behave with you in this situation? I believe that a man of integrity would not lead you on. He would not give you false hope, or allow YOU to have false hope of an actual relationship. He has said he is not over his ex. I’m a twelve stepper and this sounds like the 13th step. Preying on women with the “I’m fragile because I’m an addict (in recovery for 25 years. The recovery part is done but one does have to be vigilant in staying sober, I’m not negating that). HOWEVER I don’t play my sobriety as a sympathy card on any man. I have too much integrity. Integrity in recovery is not using it as a “I’m vulnerable, see?” ace card. If you are really honest with yourself, you might see that you are lonely. The attention is nice. You really do like him. you ARE attracted to him. You are hoping that this could develop into something. But the hard and sad truth is that if he keeps repeating he is not over his ex but you still hang around, those innocent kisses will turn into probably great sex with emotions (I haven’t felt this way for sooo long, he might say) and then he will retreat to continue licking his so-called wounds from his ex. Not only that, he could use your interest as bait for the ex. Which is what happened to me. He was EXUBERANT when he told me that he told her he was in love with me. 24 hours later, she cried and begged him to wait for her; she was coming back to him. How he told me about it was to share how he had LONGED for her to say she wanted to open the door again. He told me how happy he was with me, whispered I love you in my ear and then whispered I’m going back to her;thank you for making me feel so good about myself. When you call him on his shit, he will insist he was completely upfront with you about not being available but you kept coming around so he didn’t want to hurt YOUR feelings. Making you feel confused, blind sided and foolish. He’s a predator. No, wait. A user. He wants to feel good that a woman wants him, and that he can want a woman. It’s practice for the possible return to the ex, or for “the one” that rocks him out of his socks. What I discovered was “not over his ex” was because they were still in contact, still discussing but she was saying “I don’t know…” or even “No, not right now..” and he got ego strokes from me. Plus, your guy will not be bored and lonely while waiting to see if the crumbs she is tossing out might end up as a loaf after all. He seems like such a decent guy, huh? Solemnly leads a clean life, goes to church but still manages to wiggle in some “meaningful friendships” with willing, lonely women. Please protect your heart. If you do continue on, be ready for a possible fall. Instead of being confused about HIS intentions, be real with YOUR intentions. Your doubts are actually founded in realism. I wouldn’t hold it against you if you wanted a fling at all. But if you want more, you might not get it. Damn, I wish I would have stuck to my guns and saluted the red flags keeping both feet on the ground. I was so frigging lonely though! So sister, I urge you to be careful and keep your eyes open and your heart closed for a while.
Lynnie
Yes an ex played the recovery card very early. I then find out he’s married, he leaves his wife, breaks up with me for a woman in his past, goes off with his best friend’s wife, she breaks up with him, he marries and divorces someone else, then marries and divorces someone else, all the while emoting, eulogising and wringing his hands.
I get that not all 12 steppers are like this, but I can spot those that are. And this is one of them.
Jumps around much?
Yeah that is the guy you want some “commitment” from alright and if you were to actually get it “I mean kinda sorta get it”.. Then who’s on third? I mean who’s seventh or eighth?
Run forest run, the frogs are jumping all over here and cannot even remember the last pad they sat on.
Lynnie….wow….a heck of a post. CC, it’s good advice.
I guess in my mind, if he knows he needs to heal and he knows you have a feelings for him regardless of how he feels, I think he should cut contact with you. I am not sure building a friendship during his healing time would be good for you…you could become more attached, deeper feelings and he could not reciprocate those the way you want him to for a long time. I was friends with my ex for a long time, he would say things like this guy is, but never do anything about it. He blew hot and cold…one day he finally did do something about it, but its a long story. I was hurt deeply and I just don’t want the same thing to happen to you. I know you have feelings for him – but try to stay in reality and be logical. Guard your heart. I am sure you have a lot of friends…do you really need another one? I think integrity wise he would put you before himself, not try to kiss you or tell you how he feels about you and maybe even put distance between you while he heals.
Stacey,
Thanks, I agree. He didn’t try to kiss me, he responded to my challenging him on only wanting to be friends to which he replied, that he likes me as more and would like to kiss me (but he didn’t attempt it) Anyways, I will become more attached and when would I know that it’s more than friends or fwb. I have never met a man like him, a processor. most guys I dated aren’t that self aware. My friend says I have been looking for a man who is self aware so I should check it out by being friends with him to see if i really like this kind of man….not a bad idea, but I do need to guard my heart because I am pretty vulnerable in a few areas of my life now.
CC,
This is a late entry so I don’t know if you’ll see it. The MM that I had a 6 month affair with a couple years ago was a former hardcore addict for 25years. He was still attending AA meetings weekly. He’d been “clean” for 10 years. But you know what? He was a master manipulator, con artist, wolf in sheep’s clothing. He had no regard for people’s feelings, their time, their interests and certainly not their needs or desires. From the way he spoke he was abusive to his wife, at least mentally. After he got me “hooked” on his charm, kindness, sexual expertise, etc. I began to see him for who he really was. Quitting drugs and attending AA does not change the person. A drug addict does not behave or feel empathy toward others. They are only interested in what they want and you are just an object of their fleeting desire.
CC. Do not trust him. Do not get involved. Go NC. He, as Elgie said, is setting you up for a terrible fall. He’s using a slow, so called gentlemanly approach on you so that you’ll believe he’s a harmless, nice guy. I can’t say that he is not, but the chances are next to none. Put YOU first and get out of this NOW!
Thanks Tinkerbell!
CC – Nat says, “When a man says he cannot give you what you want and you want a relationship, it means that he doesn’t want a relationship and it’s time for you to let go and move on.
A decent guy in this situation will not only tell you this, but will opt out and move on with his life. A guy who wants to enjoy the fringe benefits of the relationship while managing down your expectations has a thinking that works like this:
‘I’ve told you that I cannot give you what you want. I am giving you a heads up and if you don’t have enough self-respect to move on and you stick around, I am not responsible for any pain that you may experience, even if I continue to shag you/get an ego stroke/or lean on your shoulder and moan. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that because I’m still around that I’m in a position to give you what you want – I’m not, but I am all out for getting my own needs met if you’re going to stick around and let me use you up.’”
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/reader-question-what-does-i-cant-give-you-want-you-want-mean/
CC- Did you meet him Online? If you did, why is he Online meeting women if he’s not ready?
It seems you’re already way too attached to this guy for it to be “just friends”. I don’t know if he’s trying to set you up for fwb and it doesn’t matter. What do YOU want out of this? It seems you’re not on the same page with this guy so are you going to continue with “wait and see” while your heart is screaming for a real relationship? Your feelings are just going to grow stronger as you’re waiting…and waiting…and waiting…you know that, right?
You’re clearly uneasy with his past and it seems you’re trying to be open-minded but it’s resulting in your not listening to your own uneasiness. Again, whether or not there’s cause for concern is beside the point. This is about YOU and where YOU are in this.
Rosie,
No I did not meet him online, I met him at my church.
CC – Girl, stop, drop and roll! If I have learned one thing from Nat (and I’ve learned MANY) it is believe what they say about themselves. He said “I am not over my ex and I am not ready to date (relationship) BUT, I am attracted to you (wanna kiss??). Oh and by the way, I am ex (?) drug addict.” No – does not sound promising to me. I would not worry about a future with this man as he doesn’t even have his head on straight for today. Telling you all this but then having breakfast with you, phone conversations, telling you he wants to kiss you and likes you more than a friend (and since you haven’t really become friends yet, yes I would read this as code for I want to have sex with you).
He is already giving mixed messages and things have just started. I’d say if he can’t be all you want and need in a man TODAY walk (quickly) away and don’t look back. Nat also warns about banking on potential. Although I am not (sorry) seeing the potential in this man at all.
Do yourself a favor, cut and run, and save your loving energies for a man who can state “I am ready for a relationship. I am truly present for YOU here today. Let’s get to know each other with the possibility of a future.”
ALWAYS trust your gut instinct my darling, if it feels wrong then high chances are it is. Listen to everyone on here and run for the hills… YOU have the choice. And you’re too good for that bullshit xx
If I met a 12 stepper with 25 years of sobriety, I would grab her with both hands. Former addicts or alcoholics committed to recovery for that long a time work a vigorous program of honesty, owning their own parts in conflicts, and not playing the blame game. If someone was sober for 25 days I might not take the risk, but 25 years? I say go for it.
CC,
Aha! You met him at church. That is so funny and in keeping with the picture of himself he wants to portray to the world. The ex MM also pretended to be interested in religious instruction and told me after a few months that he’d joined a church because he knew I attended. Don’t be fooled into thinking he is a sweet, pious soul. There’s an old saying “He speaks with forked tongue”, which simply means he is devious and has plans for you. Don’t wait around for him to put through hell. His words and actions don’t match and you’ll be miserable.
Seems like I was the Fall Back Girl for 30 Years. Phone calls every Year on my birthday and then his Wife died. He came on strong four Months after her Death (Red Flag)Phone calls three times a day. Spending every week end together for 8 Months,then he disappeared. He moved to another State for 8 Months then moved back and started calling again three times a Day however this Time I was not taking the Bait…would not see him..Four Months later the calls stopped and then 6 Months later I received a Birthday Card saying he would call on my Birthday. I was not and have not been available to him since. I love him but will not be used or hurt again No contact now for 8 Months..I know as long as I do not have any contact with him I will survive…Hang in there Lady’s.
Alia, i can relate to your story soo much, i’m pleased you found the strength to walk away, i have walked away and back again more times than i can count.
Seven years on i still live in hope it will work out, sad but true…
Yikes dead on the money once again! No rebound relationships for Florence Nightingale this time . I’m done with those fixer uppers and the Psych chair has been tossed in the trash. They couldn’t even pay me to listen to all their issues and hang ups. That energy is best spent on ME and making MY life what I want it to be! So done with those dead end streets 🙂
Eeh, I think I will give a friend of mine this article to read! Both her and her boyfriend are part of my group of friends, and they are having the second shot at a relationship. The strange coincidence of now and the previous time (June-July) is that the guy started dating her very soon after he had experienced heartbreak with other girls. The first time, he was clear with my friend that he didn’t want anything serious and wanted to keep his options open. However, this autumn, after another failed attempt with another girl (foreign girl, long-distance story), he starts dating my friend again, this time making it more “official” as in they are openly “boyfriend and girlfriend” now. However, I have the feeling he’s only with her for comfort and familiarity. Mind you, they didn’t even spend Christmas and/or New Year together, even if their hometowns are not far from one another. Almost a month apart during holidays, and my friend simply doesn’t want to create pressure on him. She also complains about him having become more “workaholic” than usual since he’s been with her. But she hopes he will gradually change and learn to love her more in time. He’s not treating her badly, but still, I feel he’s taking her for granted. My stance is a bit “delicate”, me being friends with both of them. On one hand, I wouldn’t like to interfere in other people’s business, and on the other hand, I don’t see this story in a good light.:S
Sandra,
For comfort and security is an excellent call, you can also throw in “will do while he’s looking for better”. I have the T-shirt.
I’m sure your friend knows in her heart this is true, the thought of it is just so hurtful and horrible that she can’t bear to face it. She’s going to need a lot of emotional support.
Bless you’re heart for being a good enough friend to risk getting in the middle of something like that.
Thanks! :)The thing is, the guy went through a very strange phase after his latest squeeze went back to her country. And while she was here, he also introduced her to us, his group of friends. Objectively speaking, I had nothing bad to say about her. After she left, he went away on his own for a while, to see his parents, then he came back home, and was feeling very low. Then my friend went to comfort him and one thing led to another. My friend is having this “enjoying it while it lasts” mood, but sometimes she wonders if distance was no longer an issue, and if the ex moved here for good, what would happen. I don’t know… personally I’ve never been on any side of a rebound story, or someone’s “security blanket”. Therefore, sometimes I’m willing to give the guy “the benefit of the doubt”, but on the other hand… if he loved my friend so much, and she’s always been there, available and interested, why didn’t he remain with her from the very beginning, or from the 1st time they were together?
Thank you, Natalie! I recently came through a relationship like this (I was his rebound/buffer), and he still is so angry at me and blames me for why it “didn’t work”. Truth is, he was playing out issues with me that were unresolved from his childhood and his marriage, and I started to feel manipulated and disregarded and unheard. Anyway, I got out and am still disoriented by what the hell happened. I do still miss him, the good times, etc. But it wasn’t right for me, and I am glad I was able to recognize that, and that I deserve better. This post came at a time where I was starting to think about letting him know I miss him, but I am now going to stand strong 🙂
Lynette,
My ex blames me too, I should have been able to just ‘get over our it’. Yeah, I might could have had he addressed even one instance of his aggregiously bad behavior.
Well, if it’s my fault, maybe I’ll realize it someday and take him back. Maybe his reputation won’t suffer, maybe he’ll have a poor-me story to tell the next one, maybe he’ll continue on in his fantasy that there are no consequences for doing whatever the hell you want whenever the hell you feel like it.
I don’t know. Their ability to ignore reality and rewrite history involves levels of pathological I can’t even begin to digest.
i read this now and think back on a relationship i had with an EM … what is it…two years ago now…yes, exactly 2 years ago and i see that that, in a way, was a rebound relationship for HIM. and YES, THIS – When you’re in this situation, the person who wants to manage down your expectations and wants you to accept less input from him/her, is living in the past. – is COMPLETELY true. he wanted me to fix him, to, essentially, get to suck the life out of me while he managed down not just my expectations, but who i was allowed to be.
i am actually proud of myself to look back on that and see how far i’ve come.
also – hi guys!
A very timely post for me right now. Several years ago I went out with a nice guy whose wife had died a couple of years previously and he thought he was ready to date again. After four months I broke it off as it was obvious he still hadn’t worked through his grief and loss and I wasn’t up for a rebound relationship, shoulder to cry on etc. Everytime we went out there was a comment about his partner. Poor guy, he was still suffering and I decided to let him work through it organically until he came out the other side while I got on with my life.
Recently he called me to my surprise and I agreed to go out for the day and we had a nice day out.
He called me the next day to say he had a good time and wants to see me again, BUT, he wants to tell me all about himself, open and honest, no surprises and we can take it from there.
I kind of hit the internal panic button and asked if it was really necessary to rehash his past life when it’s the here and now that matters. Many of us have done some dumb things in the past that we’re not proud of and we’re not that person anymore, have learned from our mistakes and come to terms with what happened to some degree or another, hopefully.
I really don’t want to know what he did in his past life and I’m thinking he can do remorse on his own time not mine if he wants to confess to some dark deed or another.
He not an AC but he was EU at the time I met him. I have agreed to see him again and we going to have a talk this weekend about what is stirring through his mind and he wants to know what I’m thinking and where I want to go in life, if I’m not scared off by this whatever it is and he hasn’t given me any clues as to what it may be.
I did tell him I’m really not feeling too good about this whole true confession situation but he feels it’s necessary. He did tell me that it’s nothing to do with drugs or anything illegal and apart from the odd speeding ticket he’s never been in trouble with the law. That’s a relief as he wouldn’t have seen me for dust as I sped off into the distance. He has a good responsible job in a big hospital that he’s been in for years and really likes the work he does.
I like this guy but after several years apart I’m not going to jump into anything in a hurry and would prefer to take my time in getting to know him and I really don’t want to be fast forwarded into anything.
I’m really in two minds about this whole scene.
Man…I see I have always put myself on sale. I’ll give you what you want for the bargain price of YOU giving me ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Matter-of-fact, I’ll even give you things that you probably don’t particularly want. I will just make you the King of All You Survey in Elgie’s house.
I let AC come by this weekend – it was a business transaction. I noticed that I think that AC is “too good” for me, class-wise I mean. I read that people tend to fall in love with other people that they deem just a little bit out of their own league. I did not realize I thought that way until I found myself cleaning and straightening up more diligently because AC was coming over.
This article made me think of other men in my past. How they never treated me the way I wanted…I just molded myself to them, tried to please them. Hell, I’m not sure I even liked a lot of them, as people I mean.
I remember asking one long-ago AC how he treated women he *really* liked. He said he wasn’t any different with other women. Somehow, I thought I did not rate the “good” treatment.
I clearly remember giving a guy a pedicure, because his feet needed some work, and as I was sitting there doing it I said to myself “Why am I doing this?? I am not that into this man.” He had not asked…I just ..offered.
With AC, I watched him from afar when he came over. We had a “visit”. He reclined on a chaise and I positioned myself in a chair behind him. We watched football. I noticed my first inclination was to offer him sex, because I did not know what else to do with him. I did not offer it…I asked myself is that what YOU want and I did not. There were long silences, but again I asked myself to stop trying to be entertaining, just let it be quiet.
I did apologize to him for calling him an “ass” over his convoluted suggestion on how we meet for the business transaction. It was high school – kind of ‘I know you hate me so I won’t bother you, just meet me at this corner and I’ll pick up that folder, you don’t even have to talk to me.’ Kind of childish, but I agreed to it but said he can really be an ass. I twisted it into his being able to come by to my home for sex, but not coming by if it doesn’t involve sex. I knew I was purposely misunderstanding…
He did give the classic line “I’m sorry you feel that way about me”. I just let that pass.
During our visit he related a funny story about a time with his son. In the past, I always cherished hearing his life memories, felt they indicated a bond was forming between me and AC….made me feel special This time, it just felt like the anecdote it was. I even now wonder if “family stories” are a ploy to make crumbs seem more like a meal.
We said ‘see ya’ when the game was over. No physical contact. I got the feeling AC was showing that he did not always expect sex, not in an “I respect you” way, but in an “I can take it or leave it” way.
The next morning I woke up and cried a few tears. I also found myself checking for e-mail from him, any acknowledgement. I checked my email all day Monday – nothing. Lo and behold, I felt joy when I saw a phone text saying “had a great time” had been sent early Monday.
What is wrong with me.
He’s phone texted twice more.
Why would I let this man back in. Why is that even being entertained by me.
I’ve dumped men in the past and NEVER looked back.
Anyway, I’ve not had more tears, not responded to any of the mails.
Elgie – it’s okay to cry. You have to allow yourself those moments. BUT, you were self-aware enough to recognize your first inclination was to offer sex but you DIDN’T! That is so huge and I am proud of you!! You are becoming aware of so many things with him – not attaching too much meaning to his story about his son. But this is a process, and (of course) you maybe still have this small glimmer of hope that he would follow up. I would be the same way. But recognizing that even though you have this part of you that still wants validation from him, that still wants the fantasy (he’s changed when he realized what how I am a good person/worthy/worthwhile lovable), you are still growing and it takes time. I am the same. But distance makes clarity so much easier. It is too hard with any contact, even when we are able to have some boundaries. I have gotten so much clearer on Mr. UK during these months of NC. Distance yourself. Don’t allow these “visits” – they’re not good for you. ((((hugs))))
Elgie,
This whole thing sounds like espionage. Was he an ex or a customer? I’m confused, but it isn;t good for your self esteem.
@cc
he is creating tons of drama in your life andmaking you neurotic and insecure.
Getting to know someone healthy makes you feel happy.
You have already been told exactly who he is, by him
Stop putting your hands over your ears and humming or, if you do want to do that fine, but don’t complain later when he hurts you. You are choosing a person who is self-absorbed and managing down your expectations.
Agreed, Queen. Never, ever, in my experience, has the humming turned out to be the appropriate course of action.
Good timing… I have been 3 1/2 months NC (yay!) but have been feeling a bit nostalgic lately. Sometimes feel sad/lonely; sometimes feel angry/duped. This article reminds me that Mr. UK was basically using me as a Buffer and I was playing Florence Nightengale. I look back and can’t believe I sat there and listened to so much bull shit from him about his ex-wife. We’d be at a restaurant and he’d say “this is the last place we ate together” (waaahhh wahhhhh) and he even pointed out the street corner where she told him it was over! Of course, being the good Fallback Girl I was, I enthusiastically attempted to make “new memories” at these places with him. I look back and want to hug myself and then say – Honey wake up! Hello…
I finally threw down the towel after 5 months in and we had a huge fight after he did something that was the “last straw” in my mind. I should’ve walked away then. But of course, wanted to believe I was more important and he could love ME, so I stayed. I have to say he didn’t pull those wwahhhh waahhh moments about his ex anymore… but he continued to tell me little tidbits about all his other former flames. Many of whom he stayed ‘friends’ with. I could never get to the point where I felt in the present and a priority to him. He was always lurking in the past in some form.
UGH. I want to kick sense into that girl I was a year ago. But here I am on my path to self-knowledge. Not just about him or my other ex’s but about my parents too.
Anyway, I have changed my name from “michyl” on here to Hina. As I suspect Mr. UK may have lurked on here to see my comments about him. I am hoping not, but regardless, HINA is a Hawaiian Goddess and represents awareness and knowledge. I like it 🙂
Hi again Hina
Ohmyyyyyygosh! I had to write again – this is so similar as mine! Was yours as angry at his ex as mine was at his? Mine was fixated on her, but it was in a super angry sense! In fact, worryingly so! Not pining at all.
I played my favourite song (by an artist named Robyn) and he couldn’t listen to it because that’s his ex’s name.
He went to open a wine bottle for me and couldn’t find a bottle open. Whose fault? (The [insert rude word I won’t use here] … of an ex strikes again!)
And I got tidbits about other flames too! He once told me he nearly slept with someone famous (not that famous because I couldn’t put a face to the name), who he met at a pub once. And I thought to myself (but Florence Nightingale Nel here didn’t say anything): “errr why are you telling me this crap? To prove how great/hot/awesome you are at picking up famous women?” Wow.
They are just so awesome that it’s all about them – their woes, their exes, their problems. But it’s also about their greatness too. And how good and perfect they are.
Pffff give me strength.
Same story here Nel and Hina with the ex and constant reminders, your little entry at the end “pffff give me strength” did make me LOL.
You have no idea how similar our stories relate. It’s uncanny in fact. I am aware more than ever now but I am so scared I will miss the signs again in a future relationship or will see them but ignore them or see general human behaviour as red flags when they are not and be too aware and push decent people away. I have a habit of pushing the wrong people away and holding onto the toxic. Oh it’s so confusing. Sometimes I wonder if I will ever get through this nightmare.
Oh Poppy – totally understand. When you said ‘it’s so confusing, sometimes I wonder if I will ever get through this nightmare’, I thought – yep, that’s me too.
I hate him, but I miss him (and the good times) enormously. Is that where you’re at too? I can write on here all these horrible things that he said and did, and the not-very-nice man that he was (is), but I’m still here focussing on him, aren’t I? I know what I need to focus on, but for some reason I don’t put it into practice.
I caught up with an old friend yesterday, who I hadn’t seen in a very long time, and she asked me if I was seeing anyone. I told her the long story of the EUM. And I got a bit teary and apologised and said, “gosh, sorry, I should be over this by now, things ended in August.” Obviously my friend was fine with my running mascara but it made me realise that, like you, I am holding onto the toxic.
I’m stuck in this kind of no-man’s-land. I hate him (for what I now know that he was), but I can’t get over him either. I can’t process the cruelty. I dwell on it, I check his instagram and facebook to see if he’s seeing anyone else. I know what I have to do to get over it, to be kind to me, to do what’s right for me. But I struggle.
A big squishy hug again, Pop.
Love Nel
Hi Nel,
Yes, I’m the same, a little bit of no mans land, it is getting easier but it’s been a long drag. Did you read the post by Peanut where she explained about why we feel nostalgic. It really helped me so if you feel nostalgic at any time just know that you are getting better.
One thing that helped me immensely is when I went no contact I did it with all sincerity, maybe a couple of slips but I learned early on that it was just not good for me to do that so I stopped. That is something I might advise you to do too. No Facebook, no Instagram. When you look at these things and you see a post from him that might say his whereabouts or what he is doing etc etc. Are you then letting your mind wander and creating a mini drama series in your head….. “Who is he with? Who is he talking to? Oh he’s taken a photo in the park, who is he with in the park, I bet they had a picnic etc etc etc. it’s never ending all from looking at these things. Stop right now because it makes the healing process so much longer.
It’s been a long drag for me and that is without looking and asking question and basically not uttering anything to anyone, even if they don’t know him (apart from you guys) as I just don’t want to know. Why do you want to know? It just hurts Nel to know what he is doing! You are avoiding your win life. If he is with someone else, if you’re anything like me which I think from what you write we have a lot of similarities, then you will create drama in your head from nothing.
When I finally went to see a therapist she puts her hand in front of her face and she said this is him, right here in front of your face even though he isn’t physically with you, emotionally he is. I have now used what she did and started to slowly, with my mind, move that metaphorical hand away from my face. I don’t want him with me at all, no more barriers, no more hands and no more him.
Strangely, I had a dream about him the other night, he was very small and I towered above him, he looked, insecure and needy and was shaking. I can only assume that this dream means that he is slowly moving away from my life and my subconscious mind is making him smaller for this reason and one day he will disappear from my thoughts. I enjoyed that dream very much as you can imagine.
Don’t worry about breaking down in front of your friend, it is good to get it out sometimes. It helps and maybe she gave some advice that triggered something inside of you. I’m not sure if not talking about it has helped or not with me as I bottled a lot up. In honesty, I was thinking of my friends too, I just couldn’t put them though anymore stories as they had heard it a million times before. No news answers, no new revelations just a case of healing and time. I have realised that because I reduced my emotional support to bare minimum I don’t need it so much anymore and I am emotionally strong enough to figure most things out for myself. Not all the time of course but much more than I ever thought I was capable.
Keep going beautiful Nel, I understand everything you have said. We went through all of this for a reason you know. Cliche yes, but we will come out with the strength of an ox.
Big squishy hug right back at ya
Dear Poppy,
I think I did read that post! And then I read Peanut’s mirage one. Such wisdom! (Thanks Peanut!).
You are so very right in that I have to do NC 100%. No half-arsed effort, because, although I haven’t texted (well, nor has he, so that makes it a billion times easier!), but I haven’t gone NC on my little baby-sized stalking habits either.
But I think you may be proud of me. I read your comment this morning, and I was like – “No, Nel, you are not checking it today! Poppy said NO!” Haha! So I haven’t checked his page/s. I don’t have Instagram, but can still see all his pictures, and I deactivated Facebook, but I can still use my sister’s. I am not making things easy for myself am I?
But, it’s 11.24am in Australia and I have not checked (it’s a morning habit!) – because of you! I can’t thank you enough. And I’m not going to check anymore. Because, yes, I absolutely create stories. My imagination is wonderful at times (thanks imagination haha!) but it’s also a grizzly bear too.
Incidentally, the ex-EUM had posted a picture of a river (he was fishing somewhere) and I was like – ohmygosh, is he camping with someone? Is he with someone new? Or is he on his own? Oh, Nel, maybe he’s just with his Dad! I created a whole prime-time mini-series in my little head! For the record, I think he’s on his own BUT AGAIN NEL WHO GIVES A FLYING F*CK. Good for him! He’s fishing. So what. But there is no need for me to know anything else, anymore.
And your dream, Poppy, my gosh! That is definitely a metaphor for your healing, absolutely. Do you seem him on a daily basis? At work? This very story/dream actually reminds me of Wiser’s post a few weeks ago: “Please remember that YOU have not been diminished by this awful treatment. They have. They have diminished themselves by their own crappy behaviour. This is a reflection on them, totally. No matter how effortlessly they seem to be bouncing through life, please remember this. “This is a ‘small’ man.” These are small, dimished human beings. Small of heart. Small of spirit. Deficient in self-respect. Shrunken internally.” (Thanks Wiser!).
But it is so applicable to your EUM. He’s small. Metaphorically, imaginatively, physically, emotionally. In dreams, and in reality. A small man, Poppy. Shrunken by his behaviour. You are the towering pillar of strength and hope and light!
Hugs to you again, too, Precious!
That’s great Nel, keep going. It’ll be hard at first as it has become part of your day but you must, for yourself, stop looking.
I read a lot of your replies and you give sound advice to many people about looking after themselves so you, now, must apply this to you. By looking you are actually putting your hand in that proverbial fire, it’s going to hurt, you know it, and it will scar so stop, for you. I’m very proud of you. Make something else your morning habit.
Fortunately, I don’t see my ex, we work at the same company in different departments, different buildings and different areas of the country miles apart so the likelihood is small and I thank my lucky stars for that. It could happen but it’s doubtful in reality. The fears have dissipated so much where that is concerned.
I tried to look for the post by Peanut about the mirage. I missed that one. Do you know where I can find it or was it one the same post and I missed it?
Stay strong Ozzie girl. When you delete them from your life in every way physically they then disappear more rapidly emotionally. I know nothing of him or about him and I like it that way. Keep going with the official NC. You will see.
I found the mirage post.
Hi again Pop
I had to share – I’ve made it one whole day. Woooo!! And I’m not even tempted to check this morning either. I thought, I’m coming to BR instead. I’ll offer some words of advice to others, I’ll chat to Poppy and tell her my good news, and I’ll read some more comments and posts!
And I am going to try to be kinder to me. I’m going to go shopping at lunchtime today and buy a leopard print top that I’ve seen! It sounds a bit trashy but it’s actually a really lovely classy one so I’m going to get that as a treat for day two of proper NC.
Am so glad you don’t see the EUM at all. That would be so much harder to recover from. But in writing this, it just occurred to me that that’s exactly what I’m doing by checking his Instagram and Facebook. I’m seeing him on a daily basis. Yuck.
I hope you are going well too, and the EUM continues to shrink away. ThreeDLife in the most recent post wrote that she’s come to the realisation that it is his loss that the EUM (paraphrasing here) “won’t get to see her again, hear her speak, touch her again.” That was a bit of a revelation to me. I thought – huh? It’s his loss too? Not just mine! It is your EUM’s loss, Poppy. Big time! Remember that 🙂
Love Nel
xo
Love is emotional support, physical affection, and that person wanting the absolute best for you.
Romantic love is when you are physically attracted to each other and agree to take the aforementioned to a whole higher level. And you have sex regularly.
Hina,
The nostalgia simply means you are on a precipice about to fall into neutrality. Let yourself sink into the indifference after the waves of longing.
You will become all that you doubted you could be if you stick with no contact.
The more you want him, the closer you are to getting completely over him.
Peanut,
This was helpful for me to hear too! I have been strict NC for 5 months and sort-of NC for 2 years. And sometimes I still find myself desperately craving his touch.
I am ashamed to say I still think about him every single day.
It helps to know that it doesn’t necessarily mean that the so-called recovery I thought I was making has been totally useless. I always understood that I couldn’t totally forget him, but I just expected it to be faster.
Thanks again, JH
JustHer,
You can totally forget him. Get a robust life (if you already have one, keep living it). Set out to do what you’ve always wanted but doubted yourself on doing and don’t give up.
My ex was always the quirky, creative artist type in the relationship. I dumped him (after 2.5 months of bitter mistreatment and yes some sticking good points), quit my job and chose a career in the arts and academia in music.
I cried over him for near two years. Now I am starting to forget he exists — I have way too much going on in my own life to dwell on him. I am even starting to be attracted to other men. (Though a bit young for my taste – I’m twenty-nine/they are in their early twenties). But there are some lovelies around here in the man department.
I am finally so close to freedom. Sure the ex was super sexy and handsome and smart. But he was also a liar who saw me as an opportunity to make his ex jealous.
No matter how great the superficial traits are, I have no patience for people who treat me with disrespect. Quite frankly I just won’t have it.
Keep at it and you WILL forget him.
Just know that right before you’re about to hit neutrality (the granddaddy of all rewards in this process) you will get longings like none other. You will feel as though you’ve gone without water for 40 days, are near death and that he is a tall, tall cool drink.
IT’S A MIRAGE.
Don’t contact. Don’t do it. You don’t need him in these moments. You need to get away from all things him and take good, good care of you. I took a lot of bubble baths and ate fabulous meals. Take care of you. This is the truest test of loyalty to yourself. You can pass. With flying colors.
Rooting for you.xx You can do this. If I can, anybody can.
Peanut
Peanut, your answer was directed to another poster, but it was just what I needed to hear.
Thanks!
Great response Peanut!
Yes Peanut what a great post. Probably something that most of us need to read. It’s certainly made sense of my nostalgia that annoyingly creeps up and gives me a little tap on the shoulder to say hi every now and again. In fact you have given me a lot of positive insights that I have come a long way even though it doesn’t feel that way sometimes. Thanks.
I did it. I dumped AC. Just now. Told him he was not the man for me.
No longer feel like I’m in NC limbo.
I don’t feel like tears. Don’t feel angry.
Earlier today I saw his number on my work phone and I picked it up without any anxiety. Just at that moment my office got busy, so I told him I’d call back.
I realized he was calling to set up a booty call. I felt like I needed to get out of NC limbo and be clear about what was going to happen with me and AC.
When I called back he had already left the office. So I emailed him the dump notification after getting home.
For the first time, I felt relief and excitement about it being over, instead of fear.
Last week, this post led me to the “Dear So & So” post, which blasted the last cobwebs of fantasy from my mind.
Then Peanut’s recent reply post here got me over the final emotional hurdle.
I made it to the other side. Good for me!
Peanut,
I hope you come out with some more of those wise words. You have certainly turned something around for me too.
Elgie R, brilliant.
A few years ago I was the rebound girl for a guy with three young kids (I have kids, too). He insisted he was ready for a relationship, I would just have to be a little patient because of the kids. Seemed fine to me, I was certainly in no rush for anything.
At the beginning, we kvetched about our exes and it seemed fine. But after a while I realized that he was consumed by her. She had left him and the kids for another man and he was obsessed with her life and new man. (She had dumped him for other guys several times before they married and he had always taken her back…plus she was significantly younger than him).
The reason I write this is because of my total STUPIDITY in that I continued this relationship after the first time I went to his house. He invited me over and would make me dinner, he promised. I went to his house, walked in and was greeted by a massive photograph of ‘the family’. There she was, front and center. The dinner was a fiasco, because she had ‘broken’ the stove before she moved out…a year and a half previously. So he was raising three little boys with no stove because the ex had left it broken. The house was decorated entirely by her and he went on and on about what a great cook she was (judging by the kitchen, I can assure you she was probably not), was a great decorator she was (not). The kicker was that their wedding pictures were all over the house. His excuse was that it was ‘for the boys’. But this woman had been out of the house for over a year, she was engaged to another man, and this guy just couldn’t let go.
So I figured (like an idiot) that I would bide my time until he worked through it. So dumb. When I finally had enough his attitude was a bland, “OK”. A year later I saw his profile on line and he wrote about how ‘available’ he was and how he had met a wonderful woman on line but the timing wasn’t right (subtext: and what an awesome guy I am to have let her go…)
Never again. Like others have said, if the conversation veers too much towards bashing/adoring/mentioning the ex, I’m out.
I was just thinking today that it feels like I’m off drugs. And this is my undoing, because as soon as I decide I love someone (horrible men) they take up every single brain cell I have – I believe it’s called OCD in other worlds. I am just so ready to abandon myself. The worse the better for me because all that pain and drama takes me away from my own life.
I get to ask better questions now. I won’t drone on with the pathetic and embarrassing details – but trust that I was treated like an object/bauble and that the douche bag felt he could be so cocky with me because I stayed and stayed and stayed. Until the deal breaker came….for me.
What is it about my self that needs to be blurred over by someone wretched? What would it take to keep both eyes open next time, sniff, and run like hell if there is even something remotely familiar about the next ‘nobody.’
What is it about me that I, not he, rejects so wildly?
And what makes me stay thinking that this is the only way I know how to love…is to be in pain?
I want to answer these questions. And I don’t ever want someone else to be centre piece in my life ever ever ever again. I know enough that this is not love. Love does not hurt. Hate does.
xox
It never fails, Natalie is there. I met this kinda nice guy and he said he had been divorced three times. I know that sounds like a loser but I’ve been divorced three times. Come to find out he is “separated” and not actually divorced. I called him this evening and said nope. You are still legally married and just simply no. He did the guy thing about how he hasn’t seen her in a year and I just responded with you are legally married. PERIOD. END OF. I’m an attorney and until a guy is divorced, they are married. We haggled a bit, but he is legally married. There is no getting around that and I have a boundary. Thank you Natalie. I didn’t invest a thing until I knew more about him. That’s the key. Kicked to the curb. Now he can figure it out. Not my problem.
CC
You’ve been offered some really great, thoughtful advice and insights by the other ladies. This ambiguous “friendship” is at best a waste of your time and energy and at worst something that will screw you over . He is SO NOT THAT SPECIAL!!!
I second a previous poster who questioned why so many folk are on line who are presently incapable of being in a relationship. Yep, I love it when they talk about exes, their lousy finances, their health. Thanks for the warning dudes. Its the ones that are able to hide all their crap, at least for a while, that we have to look out for. It still baffles me that someone would go to all the trouble to pursue someone knowing full well they cannot deliver. Maybe other women have given them attention/sex etc anyway; I tend to suss out this kind of crap right away and either bail outright or friend zone them pronto. I was rebounded upon once, many years ago. Same stuff Nat wrote about; managing down expectations, wanting me to play shrink, wanting no-strings sex, then overlapped with my best friend. Thanks f#$%wit. I have decided to forget about on line entirely until I can leave this area for good. My age group within 100 miles of here seems to consist of education-hating good old boys interspersed with some seriously wounded birds. Teying to find someone who works for me is what lead to me becoming involved with the at work AC in the first place and since he and latest conquest are right there, in my face, many times a week, will be a source of continued anger and pain until one of us can leave (heard he too has been looking for other jobs for years-good!) Since then, in an attempt to get “out there” , find someone I can be attracted to, I have wasted way too much money trying to “upgrade” myself, wasted valuable time, wasted my sense of hope, on men who eventually resent who and what I am or are simply broken. A lot of blogs out there talk about how women should settle, lower expectations. Nice in theory, in reality not so much. I want, feel I deserve, an emotional, physical and intellectual equal who is able to be in, and function in, a committed relationship. I just hope to hell I will still be able to find someone that works for me when I am 60 and live somewhere else. In the meantime, I need to hunker down, save money, work on this house and land to improve it for eventual sale, less dating, more work with power tools. I so do miss physical affection, good conversation, going places with someone I love and respect. May sound like an entitled old b@#$% but so be it. I think all of us here deserve respect, to be valued, to be loved, cherished and NOT to be expected to accept anything “less than”.
What wisdom can any/all of you share for when he avoids conflict, walks away and resorts to silent treatment for weeks or longer if I didn’t go to him first… It’s so cruel.
Hi Dori,
My most recent ex avoided conflict because of his complete inability and unwillingness to discuss his emotions. He said, “I’m just not good at that kind of stuff,” and “I’m like my father,” and “It’s not necessary to talk about everything,” and “Why are you so emotional?”
My therapist warned me to leave him unless he went to therapy. My ex refused, and I let it go. Six months later, he betrayed me again. It was awful. It’s been three months since I’ve gone NC, and I’m finally feeling like myself again. This breakup is the best thing that ever happened to our relationship. It liberated me. I do worry about my future–if I will be alone, and for how long. But the pangs of loneliness I feel now are nothing compared to the incredible loneliness I felt when he ignored me. The loneliness I feel now when I am alone often fades into a sweet satisfaction. Lying in bed at night, I feel that I understand myself again. I am willing to talk to myself, no matter what. I like my own company, no matter what. I do not give myself the silent treatment. I do not avoid conflict with myself. I can fight with myself, and know that I’ll talk through it and find some peace.
I’m not telling you any of this because it necessarily applies to your life directly. Everyone must find their own way. But people who avoid conflict can be dangerous. They store all their feelings inside, and then they blow up. What’s more, they feel they have the right to blow up. They feel they have the right to betray, to cheat, to lie. They are very lonely, hurt people, and they make the people around them suffer. I think they live very sad lives, and I do feel compassion for them, but it’s their choice to live that way. They can choose to live differently at any time, but they must make that choice themselves.
Best of luck to you. I hope your partner is willing to go to therapy…and not be such a jerk…=)
I had an ex act that way because he was a full blown narcissist. I respect that there are some cases where the guy is just too sensitive to discuss issues like a grown-up, but in most cases it’s going to boil down to a character disturbance of some sort.
Dr. George K Simon has an excellent site, and provides some insight you’ll find tremendously useful. Please take the time to read everything he has to say about covert aggression.
It is cruel. And only cold, selfish, unrepentant people have it in them to be cruel.
Dori – it might be worth considering what his behaviour is telling you. He’s trying to punish you for expressing disappointment about something that’s happened between you. He’s telling you that you’re not allowed to do that. If you’ve been let down by him, he’s essentially saying ‘tough tooties, I don’t want to hear about it.’ This sounds to me like someone who neither understands nor values the feelings of other human beings. These kinds of people are usually repelled by talk of therapy — they can no more listen and speak in that kind of environment any more than they can understand Martian. If this is the case, I can only say this is someone who should not be in a relationship of ANY description.
I think Nat Attack’s right about that soothing cocoon of contentment that your own company can bring you. Security, stability and peace — you can find an infinite supply of this from within yourself, if you allow yourself to draw on that liberating well of inner resource. Once you do, watch out for the bucketloads of self-esteem you’ll find are in there! It just might make you decide once and for all… he’s just not that special.
Oh Dori, the wisdom is for you to leave him be and not go to him first like you always do. Change this unhealthy routine you both seem to get caught in and you be the one to make the decision for your own sake and sanity to just leave him be once and for all (and not take you for granted). All the ladies here that give so generously of their time to counsel and console the wounded heart speak from wounded experience themselves so please do take their counsel seriously. And unfortunately you are the cause of your own cruelty when you keep hanging around especially after weeks on end of silent treatment and even then you are the one to always smooth things over when it simply needs to be over. Wish you well in your decision to hopefully be done with him, you are so not deserving of his ill-treatment, hurtful and uncaring ways. Peace and strength.
Dori
This is classic passive/aggressive behavior. Sorry but time to bail. You do not deserve this.
@Dori
Ask yourself why you are still attracted to this kind of immature manipulation.
Cut contact.
Resolve how to heal yourself so that unhealthy people are not attractive to you. You need to pinpoint what your areas to work on are and get a plan for doing it.
Thank you all for sharing your stories, providing sound advice, and reminding me that I too have a choice. I do take responsibility for the choices I made but need to remember I’m not responsible for his. He was unavailable from the start (divorce (going on 2 years), kids, issues), told me, and I continued to pursue. I wanted to comfort, help, etc. I would receive big enough crumbs to hang in there (not that anyone forced me to). We work together which makes it harder. Either way – I just need to focus on me, be compassionate with myself. I should have listened to him from the start … he was toxic. Love addiction with the EUM is my shortfall … work in-process. Thanks again.
It’s been 17 months since he bailed after talking marriage. I spent so much time and energy trying to figure out why. Sometimes I get it and then days like today I miss what I love about him…and then a post from BR saves my ass.
I was she. I was rebound girl, the Florence Nightingale, even though I asked him if he was over her….his actions and talk showed he wasn’t. I focused on his needs, thus abandoning mine. And when he bailed, my heart shattered, as did my body.
I’m so grateful that I’m at the tail end of the grieving process and that BR exists – these perfect posts and the stories related by others.
Its been over a year n I’m still in love with her (I think)…. that notion scares the hell outta me. If I’m completely honest she was never supposed to be one I fell in love with…. but somehow…. she brought me here….. here where I’ve earned a clarity I didn’t have before….yet in still no one I’ve dated has come close to what we had…when it was good. Is that all we can expect??? A little more good than bad??
That is #1 Reason or #2 do not recall why date sites turned me off like hell, You would get talking to someone and as soon as you show any interest?
They are suddenly afraid of everything becasue of the ex wife. And I can tell they expect from that point that you should be WORKING and JUMPING through hoops or something.
Then your left wondering why the hell they are on a date site for then?
I mean we all have fears but to go on date sites acting like your looking for someone, then can only find reasons not to go on a date was retarded ego stroking I think then.
I just bought the paper back book no contact rule even though I had the eBook, and the reason is I really want to have that book on me in case I ever need it and to read it and never waste again any time with this being an option crap to anyone.
But so you know I have been doing research on narcissist and all the rules are basically the same to recover from them, and many experiences are the same as well, and think there are is a variation on degrees of that.
But seems to really be a “connection” as well, the Ego stroking especially at the cost of someone else s very self esteem, the relationship jumping and all if it.
And I will tell you I would never ever tell myself anyone is the ONE until I see proof and have a ring on my finger, never ever ever.
I recently walked away from a man who was not clear on what he wanted with me. He suggested that we first start by having ‘fun’ and see where that leads us too…..I think by now I’ve read enough of BR to know this was a slippery slope… the sad part is I felt exactly as Natalie put it ‘guilty’ and like I had rushed things to an end. One thing though that i think people forget is that sometimes, the men who offer casual relations offer it with the promise for better in the future, confusing u further (possibly future faking?)but hw do you know if its future faking when it hasn’t yet occurred? A part of me still wonders if things could have really gotten serious after all.. but then again I don’t want to be anyone’s exception so I followed the general RULE or what i believe to be the rule- ‘people who want something serious don’t normally start off casually’ and hope and pray that I am able to continue on this part though tempting to stray…
If your tempted I can guarantee your putting a knife to yourself, FUN? who’s idea of FUN would that be.. his or yours?
That is the question and I think you already know the answer.
Moh,
I get what you are saying. Let’s have fun and see where it goes or let’s be friends first, it’s a tough one. Is this how you see it? Do you say to a guy let’s have fun and see where it goes. Of course you are going to see where it goes, but why not say, let’s commit to a an exclusive relationship and see where it goes. He may have been meaning that?? you can ask him if he means that, or at least no sex until he does. I guess the first few dates are supposed to be ‘fun’ to see where it goes. Tough one. Maybe getting clarity is the trick, but if they already positioned it in this way in their minds then who knows what they are really intending. Makes you wannna scream.. I’d ask for clarification, and I have and it really didn;t matter, they are doing what they want to. I finally got clarification from an ex (when we hooked up again and I pressed for commitment this time) he said, he doesn’t want a relationship and had all these excuses plus a calander full of dates! Maybe it’s best to do what you did and if he wants more he knows where to find you.
I’ve just had this put to me – “let’s be just friends and see where it goes “. I don’t think anything shady was meant. Anyway friends may be the way it pans out but that isn’t my objective. Start as you mean to go on. I think it was managing down my expectations. – telling me really he has nothing to offer. I have asked him for clarification and he said I “made some good points” but I don’t think that means he’s going to suddenly decide he does after all want a relationship. Ho hum. I liked him but I’m not invested and not going to get invested.
2fearce
I really feel for you. Yep, sometimes we fall in love with the one we should live, sometimes with the one we shouldn’t. We set our standards as to level of connection, physical attributes, lifestyle, according to these folks and yep, often others do not even remotely match up. It’s frustrating and may take a lot of time to resolve. Part of the issue is that since an EU brought us to BR, we have learned spot potential problems sooner, hence our inability to connect with new folk. We now see problems from the get-go. We also are protecting our hearts, not investing right away. These are good things but it is frustrating to find that often 99% of your dating pool is not going to work with the new, BR aware you. I don’t remember your living situation nor your age range, but it well could be a case similar to mine here where due to socioeconomic factors, past history of the area, a good many older folk are trapped due to higher living costs everywhere else, because they only learned skills that are obsolete (here mining, ranching, light industry), a pervasive drug/alcohol culture, and a lack of education. Your area may be similar, I don’t know. These issues affect the pool of available folk for huge areas here. They’re not bad folk, just wrong for us. Under this scenario, when we do meet someone we grow to love and it doesn’t work out, it is a lot more devastating than if we had many options to choose from. In the case of EU/cheating/narc behaviors, our psyche really takes a beating and we feel as though we will never meet someone who works ever again. I know I regret the end of my marriage to a wonderful man, I will probably feel pain seeing the AC with latest conquest until I can leave here. Many well-intentioned folk will say to settle for someone you are not attracted to, that you can not connect with. Rubbish. That doesn’t work and is grossly unfair to both parties. Try dating well outside your region if possible, get a circle of female friends to do stuff with (I have a weird little harem of guys to go to dinner, climbing with that are strict friends), and do what I am doing, putting my energy into home repairs, looking at antique cabinets rather than dating sites. Power tools truly are the broken hearteds best friend.
When you lowered my expectations it was suicide for you in the end, Because I cannot in REALITY think that HIGHLY of anyone that would need me to be low in the first place.
Men who say they want “fun” use that as a euphemism for sex. I don’t and never will do on-line dating as having spoken to those who have, it is soul destroying. Many men seem to think that a lot of women are sad, lonely and desperate, ready to fall for any bullshit or other crap in order to be in a “relationship”. If they walk on by when they realise I am none of these then fine by me and I now count myself lucky that they have recognised I am not going to play ball their way so saving a lot of ball ache. I have never felt guilty walking away from any man who showed interest in me but whom I recognised as broken sale goods. If they talk about or demean their ex they haven’t dealt with their baggage. Even had one man who was used as a doormat for 18 months, try it on but knew he was desperate and besides a gambling addict such as him or any addict isn’t for me. Even if someone is a recovered addict that for me is a deal breaker. Another man I knew through work was only too willing to slag his ex off and it became embarrassing as he moaned on and on like the boy he was.I couldn’t tell him I didn’t want to hear about it as he was my boss. My belief now is that you need to date for a good while to decide if you want a relationship and then continue if worthwhile for 18 months to 2 years before moving in or marrying. This gives enough time to see if there is any pretence or change in behaviour as no-one can keep an act up that long. I’ve learnt this through experience and learning on BR. The saying married in haste etc. holds very true as do many other sayings.
Once again, Natalie has provided an article that is extremely relevant to my situation. As I learned the hard way, there is no point in trying to convince someone who is commitment phobic due to a previous relationship.
I would like to point out that the previous relationship doesn’t have to be recent. In my case, the AC’s past hurt was from an ex-fiancee over 10 YEARS ago!
He gave me what Natalie calls a “one time in band camp” story about his ex-fiancee breaking his heart, and I thought I would be so much better for him, and unintentionally started playing a Florence Nightingale role. I didn’t realize I was devaluing myself by putting aside my needs to try to help him recover from his past hurt.
I’m not even sure he’s aware that he’s put this ex-fiancee up on a pedestal where no one will ever measure up or be “good enough”. After our first round in the relationship ended, I became aware of this and started calling her Pedestal Girl (to myself, not to him).
As Natalie so astutely observed, “When you’re in this situation, the person who wants to manage down your expectations and wants you to accept less input from him/her, is living in the past.” My AC was living in the past but I didn’t recognize it. I thought he and I could be great together if I could just help him get over her, so I gave him a second, and yes, even a third chance. And at the time, I didn’t realize he was “pressing the reset button” by telling me how much he missed me, loved me, wanted to marry me and buy a house together. I guess (giving him the benefit) that he meant it as much as any EU person can mean it at the time, but it never lasted. Nothing ever changed.
He never valued me for me, & never became emotionally invested in our relationship except during the times when we were broken up and he couldn’t get his ego strokes, then he ran hot again to convince me to come back. And I fell for it. At the time, I hadn’t read Baggage Reclaim, but I sure wish I had known. It would have saved me extreme amount of grief and hurt.
I always focused on the good times we had in the beginning and kept wanting him to turn back into the guy I fell for originally. I didn’t realize he was EU and ended up in a casual relationship where I was constantly walking on egg shells.
He was extremely passive aggressive, Every time we had a great time together, he would do something hurtful. For example, we spent a 2 day weekend at the beach and everything he did during that time indicated he enjoyed it very much, but when he got back home, he posted on facebook about never settling for something other than “true love” (in other words, setting for anything less than his Pedestal Girl).
I definitely hoped that (as Natalie states) “given enough time, they’ll see that you’re not the same as the past and will see all of your great qualities.”
Of course, this led to being in a one-sided relationship. The shadow of Pedestal Girl was always there. He still had the mementos she gave him displayed proudly in his house. He still wanted someone exactly like her. He told me one time I was an “80% solution.”
My AC enjoyed all the perks of my involvement on his terms. He always remained in his comfort zone and managed my expectations. This resulted in me feeling fear every time I saw a text or email from him. Before I opened it, I was always imagining what bad news it contained to make sure I didn’t “expect” anything from him. I realize now this is a form of emotional abuse.
I only recently realized I was giving, giving, giving and he was taking, taking, taking. He could never truly love me because he was still (and may always be) in love with his Pedestal Girl.
I wanted him to validate me, then felt very guilty and blamed myself when he didn’t. In the end, I wound up confronting him (and he was always uncomfortable with conflict because it meant he had to deal with some emotions) about his betrayal and his lies, and of course he denied everything. I knew the truth at that point, but he continued to lie and deny.
It was very painful to go NC at first, but in the end it was the only possible solution. I was manipulated, used and devalued. The worst part was recognizing that I let it happen.
I was GLAD each time we got back together, thinking this time it will work because he’s realized he has been seeking the perfect replacement for his Pedestal Girl, and would change his ways. But of course the same issues were there. It just ended up in more hurt for me.
I will never again try to fix someone else’s problems, and never again get involved with someone who is hung up on someone else, even if it was a LONG time ago. It is a recipe for pain.
So very true. I even heard of a man who married for 25 years but was never over the one that got away. Now not only did he do his now ex wife a disservice by taking 25 years of her life but he never moved on. I’ve known a man who was divorced for 20 years but still called the ex his wife. These are not men I’ve known other than socially but it goes to show that so many men devalue women period and can’t/don’t/want to move on and it becomes an excuse for them being single or players “I’ve not met the right woman” blah blah. If any of these men did meet the right woman they wouldn’t have the courage to do something about it and leave a so so, comfortable relationship because the truth is they are weak cowards. Men are such wimps these days not lie in times gone past when they went for the woman they really wanted. I’ve even had an ex say to me when I dumped him that I was a better person than him. It turned out that as long as he got good sex he would hang in even if the relationship wasn’t right whereas he said that I wouldn’t and would do something if I wasn’t happy….. which in his case meant moving on!
ThreeDLife,
I’m sorry that you went through this. The “80% solution” comment saddened me. So cruel for someone to speak to you that way. I recognize the behaviour–the arrogant comments, acting as though he’s the judge and you need to be concerned with his “rating” of you. It’s a weak and pathetic man who tries to tear down the person in his life rather than build her up.
I agree…that 80% line was very cruel. I would’ve walked right then.
I think you should reframe your thoughts, 3D. The BEST part was realizing you let this happen. Made you realize that YOU are in control of who you give love to. Kicking this AC to the curb was the best thing you could do.
Back in the 1993, for 4 months I dated a EUM. He is textbook PA…which I just realized in 2010.
On our first date I remember him saying he “could not get involved with any woman who made less than 75K per year” I thought that was the strangest comment – was that supposed to make me think he was so special? Was I supposed to “prove” I was worthy of him? I bailed on him after 4 months because I always felt off balance – did he like me? did he want me?
Over the years, we’ve been pseudo-FWBs twice…there really is no friendship…it’s just been a long acquaintanceship. The last acquaintanceship –with-benefits stint was in 2010. I went to his home – actually it is his parents home, his Mother died in ’93, Dad is in a facility since 2008……. I think it might have been the 3rd time in 20 years I’d been to his home. It looked the same as it did 20 years ago – his mother’s doilies on the sofa arms, no microwave. It was in a horrible state of disrepair..missing ceiling light fixture in the bedroom and a ceiling that needed scraping and finishing. He entertained me in his bedroom and the only light was the light from the TV. What struck me is that his bed, this 50 year old man’s bed, was the “big boy” twin bed his parents got him when he was 10 years old. WTF?
This man is a bookkeeper, has always been employed, buys thousand dollar guitars as a hobby, and has yet to live like an adult.
It is telltale when someone approaches you as not being up to THEIR standards. They are pretenders. They are trying to make themselves feel superior by rejecting you.
In 2011 I kicked the FWBs idea to the curb…one of the best things I’ve ever done for myself. I still do a little jig inside when I think of never being with him again. And recently, I have been letting go of his acquaintanceship, not going to his “gigs”. And true to the AC playbook, he has upped his texting/vmailing/emailing about upcoming gigs. He feels insecure. How can he reject me when I am not around?? He doesn’t know what to do!
CC
This guy’s topline data is that he is unavailable. He says he wants to be ‘just friends’ but is behaving in a more emotionally intimate (fake as unavailable) way by even ‘going there’ w convo’s about ‘the r.ship’ at this early stage. True friendship is initially based on shared mutual activities. Unless ‘sharing breakfast’ is some great passion the two of you both coincidentally enjoy, something is wrong here.
On the other hand, IF it’s true this guy is 25 yrs sober he MIGHT have higher than usual insight. Upside, if GEUNINELY has recovered can be good in terms of being straight up. Down side, as you say, rediculous amount of navel gazing & may STILL be royally screwed up.
I have almost two & a half decades of total abstinance in 12 step circles under my belt. I’m currently back OFF dating.market until I can.successfully STAY STOPPED smoking ciggarettes (started w ex now deceased AC 3 yrs ago. 1st day off AGAIN today. Sigh). I am otherwise, ALMOST ready to start dating again (I need to find work first also).
Otherhand, I just DUMPED a fully employed guy, supposed (only ever platonic) ‘friend ‘, 12 stepper, 26 yrs clean & sober, owns house outright same as me etc. Why? Misogynist, sex addict & emotionally abusive. There are a LOT of these wolves in sheeps clothing out there. Ok on paper. Seriously screwed up once you really know them. Ugh.
Your guy is.being inconsistent. Does.not bode well. I’d walk. 😉
@feisty woman
Agree.
I shudder to think of the poor man who accidentally lets slip, in my kicking distance, the words “lets just have fun and see where this goes”. I seriously think I would either laugh derisively, kick, or both. So immature.
Me, I’d heave him into the nearest snowbank. Just have fun with THIS dude!
Another thing CC. I know of numerous guys in 12 step grps, all 25-30 clean & sober who are ROYALLY screwed up re women..These guys are narcissists, sex addicts, totally emotionally unavailable, prey on sex with new women seeking recovery, involved in dishonest / shady business dealings, even dealt drugs & owned brothels (legal in my country) all whilst in recovery & supposedly on.the straight &.narrow !
The men I speak of involved in these things were ALL 25+ yrs clean & sober. Hence, sadly, it is not true that staying clean & sober so long means ANYTHING other than that one single fact. A lot of ppl with so many years of recovery have indeed turned their lives around most genuinely. Some though, remain highly dysfunctional in other areas & will never change.
You right abt the navel gazing also. I am personally fed up w tht aspect of 12 step grps. I have never known a more self.obsessed group of ppl. Not only do they work the steps once or twice, but the latest craze where I am from is to just continually keep doing them 1-12 as if one has nothing better to with ones time but shove yr head head up yr own arse & analyse yrself to death! I find it incredibly self indulgent to be frank & not at all productive. If ppl spent even a fraction of tht time helping others or their communities instead, the world would be a much better place IMO.
I wish you well whatever u decide w this guy. I am now crawling bk into yr Genie bottle for a rest. 🙂
Teach
Yep, one of my worst dates was with a 12 stepper. This was an older dude that lied about his health (heart attack city!), lied about his intentions to stay in the region, apparently thought dirty clothes were approriate attire on out two, count em, two dates and tried to get me in the sack on date two. And to think I drove 100 miles to meet this guy.
Staggering Noquay. Some guys really do take the cake huh!
I just wanted to add some thoughts to my prior post on this in the interests of being responsible.
12 step fellowships are a wonderful resource for people dealing with the various issues they are available to help with, in particular, addiction and alcoholism.
Many members have indeed changed their lives in profound ways and have triumphed in the face of great adversity. It is more common than not for many to have abuse histories that accompany their substance issues, as substance abuse is often (although not always) a common way of self medicating the pain of abuse, which for many began in childhood. I myself and one of these people. Had I not found 12 step groups in my teenage years my life could have turned out very differently to how it has. I was fortunate though to take what is good about 12 step groups and to incorporage this into my life, augmented by counselling on and of over many years, which has indeed enabled me to a great extend, at least from the outside looking in, to overcome the legacy of severe abuse which I experienced as a child. I was fortunate too that I did not become an abuser myself, possibly because I sought help at such a young age, because I was a teenage mother, and I was determined not to pass the legacy of my childhood onto the next generation. Despite my best efforts at this the intergeneration trauma has still had a profound impact on my son, but I can at least take some heart that it was not due in way shape or form as a result of any maltreatment of my son by me.
Using myself as an example, for say ‘fitness for dating’, I would be someone who is as I say, basically an honest person, who has some pretty deep scars but who keeps them under wraps as best I can in my efforts not to allow them to cause myself or others harm. This means that if I am not fit to date, I don’t. As an example, I recently put a free profile up on a dating site which had advertised a trial period over the xmas holidays. I was bored so created the profile. I then realised though, that having not yet managed to stay stopped smoking, that this issue was interferring with how I could present myself and so instead of bothering to even meet a single person, I simply deleted the profile, until such time as I am ‘available’ and in a fit state to date. The same is true I realised of my financial situation. I am unable to work at the moment and I realised that dating costs money! I have other plans to take in a student perhaps to help out financially, but this is not yet all in place, so again this is a reason I am ‘unavailable’. (Or if I could work even just a few hours a week that would good, but even that is a long way off yet. Taking a student in would suffice to make things at least bearable for dating purposes). So, a healthy person in 12 step recovery would realise all of this, and instead of stringing anyone along for the attention ect, delete their profile and go back off the dating market until they are ready. This is action matching what is on the inside emotionally. That is ‘recovery’ emotionally as well as emotional honesty and maturity. It’s saying I’m not even going to bother toying with anyone’s hopes here because actually, this smoking and living on the smell of an oily rag are pretty big issues so I will sort them out first and get back to dating later, WHEN I AM READY.
Now, there are lots of guys in 12 step circles who are actually very genuine guys rather like I fancy myself to be, in that they are responsible people and emotionally healthy. What I have noticed is that they are almost all married (to other members in 12 step groups) or in relationships with people not in 12 step groups.
I personally, in all of the 28 years I have been going to 12 step groups have never, not even once, dated ANYONE in them. Why? I don’t go to 12 step groups to find a partner. I go there to get recovery from the issues I go there for. There are much higher than average rates of a variety of psycholocal disorders in 12 step groups, for ISSUES OTHER THAN ADDICTION, than there are in other groups of people in society. This is only an anecdotal observation but I am quite sure that it is the case. I posit that this is because substance abuse often co-ocurs with other disorders, primary amoung them are things like, borderline personality disorder, bi-polar disorder, schizophrenia, narcissistic personality disorder (not in the dsm v, btw), as well as sociopathy and psychopathy. That is not to even mention depression and PTSD or C-PTSD (both of which can be phychiatric INJURIES incurred as a result of abuse rather than organic mental illnesses per se which is why I mention them seperately).
As such, my reasons for not ‘fishing in a toxic well’ for a partner are well founded. We have a saying in 12 step circles which is, “I’m fucked, your fucked, let’s fuck? NO WAY!” which expresses my own personal philosophy on this although I wouldnt agree that ‘I’m fucked’ as such, and this is just a colloqialism.
No returning to CC’s guy. The guys I refer to who have decades of clean and sober time but who are still putrid in their behaviour were not saints who ‘went bad suddenly’ when they turned 20 or 25 years sober. They were always that way, all through their recovery process. Some of them have multiple marriages (one I know has had 8!) and a while host of nasties going on (including domestic violence). These guys are PREDATORS. CC’s guy is showing very subtle signs of being an emotional predator. I will tell you why.
He has done the classic, “I am not available” move and then proceeded to engage with her in a scenerio that is MORE than just platonic friendship as indicated by the level of (fake) EMOTIONAL INTIMACY he is engaging with her. To even be going there with all this guff taking about ‘ the relationship’ at such an early phase is totally inappropriate.
If he is knows he is unavailable then the RIGHT THING FOR HIM TO DO is to say, I really like you but I am not available for a relationship. He should then LEAVE IT THERE and MOVE ON and leave CC FREE to find someone who IS AVAILABLE. What he is instead doing is involving her in a psuedo-relationship. That’s right, this is the relationship you have when you’re not having a relationship! Talk about crumbs! This guys doesn’t give crumbs even! He’s offering up the empty box of the crumb ingrediants and hoping CC will make it into a crumb and then fantasize that it might become a lovely golden loaf. Gee, CC, how many available men might pass you by while you are distracted by this guys guff? And how long do you think it will be before that ‘attraction factor’ is over ridden and you both throw caution to the wind and then oops look at that, now you’re in a casual fuck buddy arrangement with mr unavailable! This is EXACTLY what this guy is ULTIMATELY aiming for. I would get out now. He is so dishonest that he is deluding HIMSELF so he CANT be honest with CC. CC can he honest with herself though.
Here is my question to CC. Do you deep down think you deserve more? Answer that and you have your answer.
Love to all. X
ps sorry for all the typos!!! you all know me. I notice our different personalities on here. Some obviously spell check and go to great care with their posts, whilst mine are shot off from my mobile (mostly). I’m a bit like this in real life. I don’t worry too much what others think of me. I hope you can get the gist. Keep up the great work Nat. I am still working on things here and have a long way to go but am getting there, still in very slow baby steps. I have decided it’s ok to take out the slow poke in recovering from an encounter with AV award. After all, my life was totally demolished! I will continue to hopefully report little bits of good news as they come to hand. In the interim it’s been very difficult but I’m bloody determined not allow these abusers I’ve encountered to win. My latest was getting rid of that fake male friend with 26 years of recovery in 12 step circles. He was CONSTANTLY devaluing me based on his abuse history (he claims) with his mother. I dont care why he was devaluing me but I finally put a stop to it and have gone NC. I am getting like a black belt in boundaries. I have literally weeded all of the abusers out of my life since first coming to BR a couple of years ago. Abusive job/ work environ? Gone. Ex now deceased AC? Gone. Weird new female friend from 12 step circles who befriended in this very vulnerable time of my life who I suspect has bi-polar disorder and was just a user? Gone. Mother and sister? Gone. What I am realising is that I have been programmed with some very hateful and destructive things and it is a miracle that I have managed to live the reletively functional life that I have all of these years. I feel a bit like the ‘struggler’ here on BR because I now have no career and my identity was previously very tied up with that but all things can be rebuilt in time. I have to keep remembering that I dont need to impress anyone. I am me and I am ok. You all rock. Kick arse folks. Over and out.
Why did I not find you 4 years ago? This sums up the issue with my previous relationship to a T!! We were together for 4 years (he ended things out of the blue 3 weeks ago)and I was his rebound after his divorce. I’m really enjoying your blog.
I absolutely agree with this post. Love it! It took me almost a year to realize that I was putting a man before I put myself. I would take less than what I deserved because I figured I could change/fix him because of his past heartbreak with a woman of only “3 months” yes that short of a time period. I came to the conclusion that he would never stop talking about this woman no matter how many times I told him to drop it. I was being punished because of someone elses actions and he did not see it that way. I couldn’t have the commitment because he was afraid of being hurt again,but still wanted me at arm’s length. I would try to make him see that I was not her, but it never worked. I finally asked myself, why am I putting a man before myself? One that refuses to reciprocate my love, one that cared less of my feelings, and why am I having to prove I am worthy? When a woman get’s tired…not even love can make her put up with the BS any longer. I’m worthy of love, affection, commitment, and I’ve found it. It was a lesson learned. Never play second fiddle to someone who doesn’t value you you.