Over the past couple of years, I’ve talked often of the perils of being caught out by Future Faking – this is when someone spins you a future so that they can get what they want in the present. I’m talking references to plans such as something you’ll do together in a few weeks or months, living together/marriage/baby talk, and basically talking as if they’re sticking around. This tends to happen in new relationships, after breakups when they’re attempting to woo you back, or when problems are happening in the relationship. You know you’re experiencing Future Faking (whether you feel it’s intentional or not), when the future doesn’t materialise.
Future Fakers don’t put the action behind the words. If you don’t smell a rat quickly enough and end up internalising the change in the relationship programme as being a reflection of you, you’ll make the mistake of thinking that they were going to do all of the things they said, it’s just that you’re not good enough or you ‘did’ something to eff it up.
Many people end up baffled, wondering “Where the eff is that future that they promised me?” or Why can’t they go back to being who I thought they were?”, and find it difficult to work out what was real and what was fake. They keep chasing the dream, convinced that it’s still on offer, even when the ‘salesperson’ has vanished.
Here’s the thing: It’s a given how thoughtless, hurtful, misleading and inappropriate a Future Faker’s actions are, but after listening to so many people talk about their experiences and seeing some of them go back so many times to the same ‘burning fire’, it’s time to ask: Are you guilty of Future Faking yourself?
If you keep returning to the same relationship, or find yourself Staying and Complaining in a poor situation, or you keep finding yourself in same relationship packaged up in a different person while carrying the same ‘ole issues, you’re faking a future to yourself by Betting On Potential and using denial, rationalising, minimising, and excuses to circumvent what you actually know to be true (reality) or right for you (your values), so that you can continue to get a short-term fix and bury your head about medium to longer term issues.
The same can be said for you, if you kid people into believing that ‘things are going to be different this time’, drumming up support, confidence, sympathy, empathy, help, and even money to ‘back’ your proposed changed self, only to renege. It’ll be familiar if you whip up a lot of drama around you, with people rushing to put their two cents in, Florence, and fight your corner.
You see people with addictions do this all the time, but it’s also the same for people who ‘go’ to therapy but don’t actually do therapy. Experience has taught me that some people are very good at talking the talk and saying what they think professionals, friends, and family want to hear – you can, if you’re not looking out for the hot air, get sucked into their faux confidence.
To be fair, we’re all guilty of a little Future Faking of ourselves. We say we’ll definitely go to the gym before enjoying a sneaky treat, that we’ll get up early and catch up on work before casting aside our task list to chill out, or that we’ll cut back next month and then we go mad with the spending this month. We don’t go to the gym, or get up early, or cut back the spending though. However that’s life and really, it’s only going to become an issue if we never actually do any of these things but keep telling ourselves and others that we will, and then complaining about the results of the fact that we don’t.
When for example, you decide to opt back into a relationship that you know has caused you much pain and that you in fact recognise that the very things that broke your relationship in the first place haven’t been resolved, you’re telling yourself (or imagining) all of the various things that will happen to legitimise your reason to go back right now. That and you have [selective] Relationship Amnesia.
You use an almost dogged focus on the future and the grand plans you have for yourself in it, to avoid very real problems in the now. This is like throwing caution and responsibility to the wind.
It’s also the same when you appear to have a compulsion to break contact, to create drama, or to attention seek, or maybe all of these combined – you mean your intentions for the future about as much as you could mean it at the time, which isn’t much because you have given no genuine thought to anything beyond instant gratification and have exhibited little self-control.
Just like if you’ve been Future Faked by someone else, when you do it to yourself, your mentality is a bit like “I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it.” This allows you to enjoy the fantasy without interruption until the future materialises along with the expectations, needs and desires that go along with it.
It’s a bit of a gamble really. It’s like realising you haven’t got enough money, for example, to go on holiday, but going anyway, acting like you have all of the money for your trip and having the time of your life, and in the back of your mind, hoping a ‘windfall’ will come along to save you, instead of scaling down your efforts and living within your means…or not going. Failing that, you find something or someone to blame when you have to pay bills…or you disappear.
It’s bad enough when others bullshit you, but it’s even worse when you bullshit yourself. It’s also important to recognise that bullshit begets bullshit, so if you lack honesty and integrity with yourself, you won’t be able to smell what’s wrong with a person or situation, because it will be clouded out by the smell of your own bullshit. That and it’ll blur your vision and block up your ears.
Before you opt back into something, it’s time to ask:
Is there a medium to long-term benefit to what I’m about to do that isn’t based in fantasy?
If I have to stand behind my word and follow up with action, can I still open my mouth? You may actually find that the first time you’ll be taken seriously is when you keep it zipped and get on with it.
Have I been here before and if so, what is the genuine, tangible difference now that would legitimise me proceeding, that doesn’t involve my ego, my libido, or my overactive imagination?
There’s no such thing as a life without accountability and responsibility…unless you live in a fantasy or set yourself up with faux goals by having a long shot mentality. By Future Faking yourself, failure is accepted from the outset so you’re not actually being accountable for the dodgy decision making and Betting On Potential that you’re engaging in.
But actually, you’re still accountable, something that is easy to forget when you avoid making decisions and being final about things. You cannot even begin to make change or be happy, if you’re going to trap yourself in Groundhog Day future jacking yourself. You’ll also get on your own tits due to frustration at your self-deception, plus you’ll wear down those who actually buy into your bursts of proactivity showboating- when you do decide to get serious, you’ll be the girl/boy who cried wolf.
There’s more to life than the short-term. Remember this the next time you’re selling yourself out for instant gratification and longer term side effects.
Hi Natalie,
These reminders that keep me grounded in reality is just what this dreamer needs. I still have dreams that I may someday meet a good man and will be able to have a respectful, equal, mutually connected relationship with him. The difference is that now, these dreams are realistic.
Thanks to your timely strengthening wise words I have been able to learn the lessons I needed, from my ‘epiphany’ relationship, to love and forgive myself enough to have the power to disentangle myself from dysfunctional relationships and to experience life in all it’s abundance.
Thanks to you and the BR team sharing their stories. I am free to be true to myself in relationships. Happy New Year everyone. 😀
kristen
on 22/12/2011 at 12:06 am
I agree! I have read this site inside and out and still come back for touch-ups! I have been single and HAPPY for two years now which, in the past, would have made me gasp. I watch my friend stay with an assclown as she clings to the crumbs and the hope that he will make her the exception. She is the one who turned me on to the site, but I guess it didn’t click with her. Take your time to be alone and get to know yourself. Read these posts and get clear on what you want and what you believe. I want to love myself and be happy in my present and confident in my future. I don’t want to future fake myself and end up nowhere fast, having missed the ride and joys of MY life.
Leisha
on 20/12/2011 at 12:00 am
Natalie, I am walking the talk and your blogs have everything to do with it. Thank you
Tracy
on 20/12/2011 at 2:00 am
Me too. I am walking the talk. Feels good too.
Natasha
on 20/12/2011 at 12:14 am
Very thought provoking stuff! It’s interesting, because aside from my ex being an ass, if I developed amnesia like a soap opera charcter and wanted to go back (I’d rather eat questionable sushi laced with broken glass tempura. Trust.), I feel like I could never do it out of respect for the people who care about me and supported me. It would be a lot like the ACs that keep popping up with their “Woe is me! My cat ran away (in 1987).” And then treating the person whose life they are disrupting like sh*t. Obviously that’s not to say that you’re a selfish assclown if you opt back in – hell, if that were true I’d be an assclown many times over! In both scenarios the common ground is a total disregard for reality and consequences. I think the bottom line is that is you want to live a largely drama-free existance, don’t bs yourself or anyone else!
NCC
on 20/12/2011 at 12:58 am
I feel like I could never do it out of respect for the people who care about me and supported me.
Exactly Natasha! I know some of my strength has had to come from this very same thought! Why future fake people that care about ME and want to see me happy! Why tell them “oh i’m so done with him” when I was still going back! A good friend of mine called me out not long ago when I had a blab session of how ridiculous the assclown is, then when it was just the two of us, she asked, “ok, so what’s really going on with you guys?’ It wasn’t mean or cold hearted of her, she was totally accepting of my answer, but I said to myself, wow, not only did she see right through my BS, I hate this feeling of not being authentic! I meant what i said about his assclownery, but i had talked to him just that day, maybe even seen him. I don’t even know if she intended it, but it put a much needed mirror up in front of me.
Barbara Doduk
on 20/12/2011 at 11:42 pm
I feel like I could never do it out of respect for the people who care about me and supported me.
Exactly. After EVERYTHING my ex did to me, not just the whole amazingly selfish bullshit he demanded when I accidentally got pregnant, but even before that – my family and friends ENDLESSLY said to me – ‘you aren’t ever going to go back to him are you?’ For awhile I found it insulting – then I thought about it and realized that due to my previous behaviour in dropping court charges and taking him back time again, believing his bullshit that he would fix himself and change… I had no one to blame but myself for my family and friends having doubt in me. I had to PROVE to them, I have changed and therefore I would never go back to that asshat. They stopped asking by the way. Clearly they see the ‘improved’ me and don’t doubt that I would never go back to that man.
By the way, he is bullshitting himself still, and I pretty much think everything he says is bullshit too. He recently regaled me (while we were doing the daughter swap on his ‘daddy daycare’ days) with the story of how he dislocated his shoulder – rolling out of bed. RIGHT! LOL! The only 2 times in the past that has happened were due to his rage issues combined with alcohol. I know it is a lie. He would endlessly LIE to everyone to cover up his antics while we were a couple, I have no doubt he is now lying to me in the same fashion.
Natasha
on 21/12/2011 at 10:06 pm
@NCC – Oh, it’s so very true that the people who love us will show us where we’re going wrong, if we listen to them! I’m so glad you flushed the assclown.
@Barbara – Girl, I know exactly what you mean. I took my ex back many a time and I found that, as Nat says, by just shutting up and not going back, everyone in my life KNEW I was done! I completely agree that the improved you comes through loud and clear 🙂 I’m not surprised that your ex is still an idiot – liars spend quite a bit of time not just lying to others, but to themselves. It reminds me of George Costanza from Seinfeld’s famous line, “It’s not a lie if you believe it.”
Feast to Famine
on 20/12/2011 at 12:20 am
Thank you, Natalie, I was future faking myself into a vacation I can’t afford and I realize I’d better not go and pay down my bills instead. Also, I just today truly cleansed myself of a former fling who I was secretly hoping might lead to something one day but I’ve accepted never will. I have another man who is giving me tons of attention and I realize he’s the one I need to be looking toward rather than some hopeless case.
Tawny Powell
on 20/12/2011 at 1:29 am
Awesome. So, so, so true and so, so, so necessary for me to read right now.
Thank you.
Your blog is wonderful!
Anon
on 20/12/2011 at 12:32 am
thanks for this post Natalie. i am currently dating someone and i often wonder if i am BSing myself about him and our relationship. so this is very timely 😉
NCC
on 20/12/2011 at 12:43 am
I know I lived in a fantasy with my ex, he was a great future faker (also great at blowing cold and treating me like I was an annoyance, and how dare I expect anything from him) When my suspicions of him proved, I told him I was leaving, but only half-heartedly did, or even wanted to. I took some steps to leave, I moved out, but I then became wrapped up in the fantasy that we could still make it work, that this would make our love stronger. I thought by taking the ACTION and moving out, it would prove to him that I was serious and that he had broken my boundaries and trust, and I had to do what was right for me. I thought that would show him I was worth it. But I kept playing with fire, accepting his invitations to come over, to see him, because I didn’t really want things to be over, I still wanted my fantasy to come true. What I was doing also was showing him that my word didn’t mean all that much. And he had no intention of changing to what my fantasy required. He was just going to take what he could get from me as long as I would give it. I took every short term drug he wanted to give me, and yet here I am now, on NC again just a week, when really this whole thing was over months ago, but I couldn’t resist the short term fix. I was only further humiliating myself because even though I “left” I’m the one who really can’t handle finality. I used words and some action as a means to get a reaction, I do this a lot in my life. It just proves that I was future faking myself, trying to live in that fantasy, and it’s quite clear that short term fix is no friend of my long term desires and vision of my true self in a life I can truly respect and love myself for. Now in the most painful moments of my life, I want to reach out to him. This is where my imagination tries to keep taking over, this is where if I don’t stick to NC, I’m crying wolf. I can always talk a big game to friends about how I’m so much better than him, I so don’t want him, yada yada. In the moment it can feel great to have these “pump up my awesome self” sessions, but honestly, I don’t truly feel better because I’m not being honest with myself, going back to my words not matching my actions. Before NC, my heart swelled and my anxiety vanished at the image of his number on my phone, the sound of his voice…you all know how it is. I’m in counseling now working on self esteem, self differentiation, and learning to be compassionate with myself and accept that I’m human, I am grieving this loss, I do have human needs to love and be loved, but not at the sacrifice of myself.
tired_of_assanova
on 20/12/2011 at 10:03 am
Aargh! This could be almost exactly MY story!
After you dump them (a good decision in itself as they will never amount to anything and actually don’t want you or are not interested anymore, ugh, so hard) you feel guilt, remorse, etc.
I had to get a piece of paper and write on it:
* He’s not interested
* If we meet up again he’s only going to be ‘a friend’ and skim all the benefits
* He’s screwing all these other people (yeuch!)
* It’s never going to work out
and other stuff (like ringing him randomly one night while I was out of town to find out that he was driving off in the night on a freeway at 9pm ‘to see a friend’, *cough*) that just reminded me of WHY this should, could and would not work…
Stop blaming yourself, nobody has to judge you about it or know because it’s personal. Give yourself a license to make mistakes – I spent so many weeks wondering ‘how I looked’, ‘was I too harsh’, ‘what will other people think of me’, ‘am I being mean’ until I realised that this was all in my head and nobody else needed to know unless I told them!
I had to tell myself this:
1. If they were that interested, this wouldn’t have happened anyway.
2. If they were that interested, the relationship (or non-relationship if it didn’t get off the ground) would have not been so *Fragile*.
These guys are like glass- they get all rigid and brittle at the thought of intimacy and commitment, such that when they crack/break/shatter you think it’s all your fault because ‘you broke it’.
Elle
on 20/12/2011 at 11:31 am
I like this idea of easily-shattered glass. Earlier this evening, I had to tell a guy who’s been kinda keen over the past couple of weeks that I couldn’t pursue anything with him. I felt a little bad because he’s really lovely, and will be a great boyfriend to someone, and he’s only been generous and attentive with me. But I am still fragile (read: deflated and a little angry and guarded) from the recent bust-ups. I am not using it to my advantage, and therefore hopefully not an AC, but I can say that it’s real, that feeling of not being up to it. It’s not the other person. Well, it might be – there might be real incompatibility – but, when you’re fragile, you don’t even get to that.
Anyway, that’s a bit of a sorry note! It’s not too grim. I really hope everyone has a wonderful build up to whatever holiday they’re celebrating, even if it’s simply time with family and good friends. As ever, thanks Natalie
Leisha
on 20/12/2011 at 1:46 pm
Elle, You did the right thing. You are fragile. You aren’t up to dating yet. That is being authentic. Def not AC behavior. I’m sure you were firm and kind. Take your time and heal.
Broken
on 21/12/2011 at 1:51 am
Thank you so much for this blog, and this comment:
I had to tell myself this:
1. If they were that interested, this wouldn’t have happened anyway.
2. If they were that interested, the relationship (or non-relationship if it didn’t get off the ground) would have not been so *Fragile*.
Fearless
on 21/12/2011 at 12:47 pm
Broken
“If they were that interested, this wouldn’t have happened anyway.”
Yes. I think one of the crucial and hardest places to get to is realising and processing the fact that these men are *not* that interested in us or we wouldn’t be having to future fake ourselves for short term fixes or for anything else.
I think although it all stems from a lack of self worth I also see myself as having been quite ‘arrogant’ in thinking that despite all the obvious signs to the contrary I would *make* him love me: He *will* love and want me whether he likes it or not! I have decided this is what is to happen and it *will* happen, even if I have to deny, rationalise and minimise the overwhelming evidence against me – even if I have to fake it for myself, I will fake it and so it *will* happen – even if it happens only in my own head where I have written the dream – all the way through to the magical ending! All I need is to get him to be who I want him to be, feel what I want him to feel and do all those relationship things that he doesn’t want to do… OR I could just recognise that this guy is not for me, stop faking that he is, get off the crazy train and get on with my own ‘real’ life instead.
CoffeeCat
on 21/12/2011 at 9:22 pm
I think this is a good reflection of myself, as well. Early on I remember my AC telling me that he had a wall around his heart (hello red flag 962 that I ignored), and I was like, oh heck yeah am I going to scale that wall and get in there and you *will* love me. Joke’s on me, tho. I even had to go back once and get burned. So, no more BS for me.
Nette
on 20/12/2011 at 2:44 pm
I came here for the exact same reason. My imagination is getting to me after 15 days of no contact. I did well the first two weeks but last night the BS began. I am struggling also but inspired by your comment. I told my mother because I didn’t want to put my friends through this once again, I felt like I was dying and needed to tell SOMEONE, and I needed the protection of not future faking her. It would be almost impossible for me to take him back after I let her see my pain once again….Now here I am regretting that I told her because the thoughts of taking him back if he calls are overwhelming. I want to crawl under a rock today!
CoffeeCat
on 21/12/2011 at 9:26 pm
Nette, please be strong. Do not break contact. I made that mistake and I regret it. It is not worth the pain and the set back it will cause. I find myself recovering quicker this time around, but it was not necessary for me to have to go through that process and feel like crap for two weeks to try and get my head screwed back on again. ((hugs))
I went full bore NC this time around and changed my email (deleted the old one so I can’t go back and check) and phone number. No checking spam or blocked calls or anything. Deleted the ‘app’ running in the background. (well, I still sort of think of him, but am squashing it sooner now than before).
Kmac
on 20/12/2011 at 1:04 am
I don’t know…it’s an interesting question, but I’m not so sure it’s that simple. I had been single for 7 years (yikes) and met a younger man this past summer who was my catnip and kryptonite. And there is something about that combintation that can really eff a person up. Even a fairly healthy person who has been walking the walk. Therapy, books, meditation, support groups, and on, and on. We need a part of what they give us so desperately we are willing to overlook what they aren’t (or, better yet, who they really are).
In the end, I know you’re right, Natalie, because so many wanted to tidy the whole thing up for me after I was dumped mercilessly by saying, but yes, wasn’t it worth it? You had the most fun, the best sex, you felt alive like you hadn’t felt in years. Wasn’t it worth it?
The answer is NO. A thousand times, NO.
I’m not really one who lives my life banking on a future, and for that, I make no apologies. But I love your point about breaking contact. I admit I’m struggling so much with that with Merry Crack Day fast approaching. But, to what end? Maybe that’s an even better way of thinking of the future. To what end? No answer? A lame answer? Waking up realizing things still are the way they are…over? So, if the future is only the moments after we make the call, send the text, send the gift, why not invest more wisely in that future?
tired_of_assanova
on 20/12/2011 at 1:14 am
There will be no future faking from anyone or myself while I am on the “No Dating Rule” / dating hiatus (cf. NML’s No Contact Rule) while I get off relationship crack! I used to imagine ‘oh, but if I *just* stay a bit longer, try a bit harder, but up with a bit more crap, hang around a bit more as ‘a friend’, I’ll tip the balance back in favour of me and get what I want and we’ll have a great future together.
Wipe out your online dating profiles, delete Mr Unavailables/booty calls/whatnot from your phone, tape your dialling fingers, tell all your friends that that you are on a TOTAL DATING BAN, institute a ‘no friends policy’ for ex-dates and exes, say no to everybody that even hints a bit of interest (even if you think they’re Mr Right) and do *not* arrange any dates.
I think a few more months on the No Dating Rule plus professional therapy will see the cycle finished and broken completely! I’m at the post-acceptance stage where I’m not so worried about them, I guess I’ more worried about me and fearing if the next time I get into the saddle will I screw it up?
AngelFace
on 21/12/2011 at 2:44 pm
I wiped out all my on-line dating profiles. At first the attention from those men was attractive and gave me hope that there are other men out there besides the xEUM that I was desiring. But when I would meet them in person – I would be so disappointed because there would be no chemistry or spark, and I would compare them to the x who I wanted to marry and spend my life with.
I personally need to be in more social situations because working and being home alone is not enough for me… I plan to join a new choir (mixed voices) in a few months, and been wanting to do Wed. night Country Karaoke… I am much happier NOT being on-line and wasting my time with presenting myself to on-line men….who ultimately don’t cut the mustard.
This is a very difficult Christmas season for me and I am so thankful that I will be out of town with friends this Christmas weekend. Happy Holidays All, be good to yourself & we will get through this and be better people for doing so!!!!!
Ange Fonce
on 20/12/2011 at 2:23 am
“Here’s the thing: It’s a given how thoughtless, hurtful, misleading and inappropriate a Future Faker’s actions are, but after listening to so many people talk about their experiences and seeing some of them go back so many times to the same ‘burning fire’, it’s time to ask: Are you guilty of Future Faking yourself?” ~ Natalie
Are they lying to you?
The answer is YES!
In fact deception is so prevalent in everyday communication that it’s a wonder anyone can actually remember anything they said to someone else. (And, in fact, they often don’t because the part of the brain that most often generates a lie is not immediately conscious!)
Last year I read on research that showed that people lie about three times in every 10 minutes of conversation. So if you talk for an hour, that’s 18 lies. That’s a lot of deception…
Why people do this (including you and me)
Who is mostly likely to not deceive others or themselves
How to influence the person when they are deceiving (remember that’s about 18 times per hour in a conversation)
Square One
It turns out that married couples deceive each other more than single people do.
It turns out that women tend to lie about different things than men.
It turns out that women lie much more about infidelity than men do.
What is going on?
Scientists are now studying deception and they are finding out that those who deceive have a big advantage in nature.
For years I thought that lying and deception stemmed from psychological disorders.
I was wrong.
It may not be nice, or ethical or right…but it is natural behavior….!
All animals deceive. It doesn’t take a human to deceive…and it doesn’t take a bad human to deceive.
Primates strategically deceive…able to misdirect competitors in the group to another location while they eat where the food is and so can select the best mates. Not always…only when food is short in abundance.
Orchids deceive bees. (I’ll explain this bizarre fact…another day…orchids are flowers…by the way.)
It’s adaptive, natural behavior. Deception helps insure survival on the level of one and on the level of the group.
Ugh!
We all hate being lied to.
However, “Honesty” is not adaptive for reproduction.
Prevarication, Embellishment, Story-telling and Deception is what will get you laid!
And get your Genes passed on!
AF
Elle
on 20/12/2011 at 11:43 am
AF, and there’s a lot to be said in psychological and social behavioural terms for not being honest all the time. Indeed, people who are only honest are regarded as at least unsophisticated and, more likely, moronic. However, what a bummer we don’t only have the emotions of animals; that we also relate and engage in other ways, including building relationships with functions other than to breed and get our genes passed on! And that we have this other part of us that wants truth, that wants to relate authentically, that wants to be reached and heard.
Leisha
on 20/12/2011 at 1:27 pm
Elle, love the irony! I will be a moron and unsophisticated anyday before allowing bs to rule and blame it on “nature”.
Artemisia
on 20/12/2011 at 1:19 pm
AF
Yep. Deception will get you anywhere. It’s short gain VS long gain.
From an evolution point of view, men can have more sex to share their genes and a woman can only have one baby at the time – so women have to be careful who they have this baby with ( a good and decent provider) while men can go on sharing. We are reared, as a society to accept a greater level of promiscuity from men than from women. Acting out sexually by men is accepted, boys will be boys, we get branded a slut. Men are more prone to sexualise their emotions, because of biology and talking about emotions is not a male thing ( you guys are so logical on paper) and women are more prone to deny their feelings to have a relationships ( shelter – babies- food). Worse we experience sex in a different way despite the fact that intimacy is the end goal. For guys sex is language while women need to use language to get to the point where we are comfortable to have sex with you. Sex is a language we both speak yet we don’t always understand each other.
Men are capable of faking “relationships” to get their need ( otherwise unmet) met. It seems the only power women have is to say no – he Madonna / whore complex.
One of my friend who had been out of the dating loop for a while was swept of her feet by a friend of one of her colleague. After the crazy lust, she started to feel used as it was only about “him”. By a fluke meeting, she found that the friend he was helping with his house move- the excuse not to be with her on a long weekend was his girlfriend who was moving in with him. She was hurt and humiliated despite the fact she knew it was only going to be a fling and he was a bit scarred by her sexual needs ( the fling gave her licence to be wild but still he got scared by her assertiveness in bed). When confronted he said – “ yeah did not tell you because I knew you would make a song and dance about it” . It did not stop him calling and calling her for sex, having it both ways. He felt trapped at home and needed an escape from tedium. After a dry spell, 2 years of rearranging the house over and over again, watching QVC at night, she got to put on make-up and got sexual again. Not a bad thing in my view.
grace
on 20/12/2011 at 2:19 pm
I think comparing ourselves to animals is of limited value.
I tell you what is upside down though – women competing for men. I don’t see that ANYWHERE else in the animal kingdom. Even my fish know better than that.
As for fibs – some of them are not a big deal:
How are you? I’m fine (even if I’m not).
No, that dress doesn’t make you look fat
Wow, this meal is terrific.
A big deal:
I’ll call you (but I won’t)
My wife and I don’t have sex (except last night)
He’s just a friend (that I snogged the other day).
Sure, you can’t say every stupid thought that goes through your head (well, I do), but that’s a long way from deception. And just because “everyone does it”, it doesn’t make it all right! Strive for better.
Artemisia
on 20/12/2011 at 4:11 pm
And she is immunised against the “ swept off your feet” feeling for a while. You can’t see the red flags when you are delirious.
Leisha
on 20/12/2011 at 1:38 pm
I seriously question the validity of the research that you read. In fact, I question and doubt almost everything that you wrote as an accurate reflection of men and women. Perhaps you have bought into those ideas but I believe they are false for many. You/we are accountable for your/our actions as (a) thinking responsible human(s). You do not run on instinct. Own your action and beliefs and live with the results. Nature is not responsible. If you choose to deceive then you reap the results.
Artemisia
on 20/12/2011 at 4:16 pm
Leisha,
I believe we are totally accountable for our actions. But we also ignore our nature at our peril. Like my partner says : I am not your girlfriend so do not treat me like one.
Artemisia
on 20/12/2011 at 6:09 pm
Leisha,
I was brought up in a repressive environment where men and women have set identity and do not deviate, men are men and women get blame for anything that goes wrong. If you get raped it’s your fault not the guy, and if you wore a revealing dress, you asked for it.
I am not excusing my boyfriend if he cheats on me on nature or his hormones. It takes 2 to tango, nature and up-bringing plays a part. If a man has been taught that women are good for a few things – sex and dinner, that will play a part on his view of women especially if he has learned to hate women because of ignorance. At the same time if my mother has taught me that men are good for nothing jerks that will cheat me with any woman that smiles at me, that will I think, cloud my judgement and wreck my view of men, especially if my dad did nothing to change my mother’s view . I will go on messing my relationship, never understanding my part in their destruction.
We are prisoners in a way of our hormones and our sex drive, it’s not called a drive for nothing. Men and women are different, yin and yang. Growing up and be a fully fledged human is to delay gratification and see the long term rather than the instant and deal with our fears.
I really like Stephen Carter, Julia Sokol, Dr. John Gottman, and Harville Hendrix.
Best wishes
Leisha
on 20/12/2011 at 7:51 pm
Artemisia, Hi, I am not familiar with all of the people you listed. I will probably take a look at them; thanks. The nature/nurture thing is alive and well although many recognise it is a blend.But I take exception to what I view as faulty research and conclusions derived from biased/skewed/questionable studies. Culture and rearing play a huge part in us but with education and self-knowledge many things can and frequently DO change. We also do have control over our behavior despite having strong drives. I have been fascinated with sociology and the differences between many things for most of my life. I questioned things at a young age and was fortunate to have a mother who encouraged it for the most part. I also came up in the 60’s and 70’s where viewpoints were changing radically here in the USA. I still see old ideas based on sex not ability and it still irks me. Wholesale generalisations designed to excuse poor behavior is not something I find acceptable. I believe in thinking and common sense as well as questioning what “everyone” knows. My brother was in Pakistan and his wife stayed in a compound. Women who were raped were accused of being responsible for it. Yound women are circumcised and frequently die from infection and suffer pain for their culture’s beliefs. Slavery was accepted as proper and Godly. Women were property as were children of their husbands and fathers. Some people don’t like things to change in any way that gives others freedom. Some people like to blame others for their bad behaviors and call it natural.Yes, I am familiar with sexism and racism and ageism and many other things. Much of it is about power/resources; who gets it and how it’s shared. Know Thyself is key for me along with Do little harm. I don’t know your story, but you seem to have managed to become a woman who is not repressed in the way your society would have preferred you (if I read your comment correctly). My comment was addressed to AF BTW…So, if I upset you inadvertently I apologise.
Leisha
on 20/12/2011 at 8:31 pm
Artemisia, What does your partner mean by that? It sounds like it’s meant as an insult. Oh yea, and here in the Good ole USA women are still being blamed for rape because they dress or act in provocative ways…total BS but alive and kicking. Best wishes to you as well.
Artemisia
on 21/12/2011 at 1:15 pm
Leisha,
Sorry I got confused with the reply section and thought I had offended you.
Lord I wrote too fast at work and should fire my editor.
Everybody lies says Dr House but he is a misanthropic pill popping EU, prone to manipulation so… Yes many excuse their bad behaviour on their nature even when challenged.
This is how they explain their power trip to themselves sometimes, until they learn their culture and nurture may have played a part in it.
Being unrepressed took therapy, kissing many frogs waiting for them to change me and having to change myself instead.
My partner is not insulting me, he reminds me sometimes that he is a man – so less capable to match women’s vocabulary in interpersonal relationships – and I am not respecting that.
Man #1 we are meeting at 7 pm , Jack is coming.
Man#2 ok then, see you then.
Woman#1 we are meeting at 7pm, Jackie is coming.
Woman#2 ok, ” what are you wearing” ( long thing of outfit, color, maybe reference of weight, fat arms, spandex – fill the gap) “Jackie is coming really I never thought she would” ( long thing about whatever she is going in her life)
Your man at the back, (English accent ): for heaven sake, does it take an hour to know what time you are meeting her? You will have a chance to talk to her then!
Me : yeah I know ( we like to know what is going on beforehand), we were just talking. Do I bother you for talking football with your mates ? ( yeah I do sorry)
I like to point that to him that, when women talk about our problems to men – we want to be listened and heard – not offered a solution within a minute ( because you want to help us) and told off when we do not apply it.
My favorites:
Me: I am not your mother !
Man: then don’t act like her.
Me: blah, tangent, blah, tangent, blah, tangent, are you listening?
Man: sorry, what are you telling me again? There was a point way back…
jennynic
on 20/12/2011 at 5:45 pm
Not all male species are out spreading sperm where ever they can. Eagles and ravens mate for life. Fact. They only move on to another mate when their current mate dies. Some female species kill a newborn that is weak in order to give the other young in the litter a better chance, while some male species kill the young of another male in order to bring the female into heat. Nature is complicated and there are similarities among species but I’m not about to accept being lied to because primates do it in order to survive. It may be natural to some, but white lies are not the same as selfish deception. Just like sampling one grape at the grocery store before you buy them is not the same as mugging someone. The ex used to tell me monogamy wasn’t natural and used to give me example of animals that have multiple mates. He brushed aside my example of eagles and ravens because those animals didn’t justify his ideas or lies. Deception is all around us but we have intelligence and choice as well. Orchids don’t have free will or feelings, so they’re ability to deceive bees is built in without choice. The word orchid stems from a latin word that means testicles……by the way. They don’t have free will either, but the brain that directs them does.
Leisha
on 20/12/2011 at 10:02 pm
Spot-on jennynic
Lynda from L
on 20/12/2011 at 8:29 pm
AF,
Signing up to constantly deceive will get you anywhere…anywhere apart from the search for self..
Every time we set out to seriously lie to someone we move a little further away from our authentic selves.
In creating the illusions you speak of,we are in fact deluding ourselves?
I disagree that habitual liars have it made, in general they are just storing up trouble to come,peace of mind is worth more.
Ange, I felt I needed to respond as you’ve taken ‘honesty’ into some other weird territory. I get your point although I note you don’t mention that we should lick our own genitals, eat our own faeces, or kill or abuse one another as Jennynic, Lynda, Leisha et al have pointed out. It’s one of those weak arguments like when this guy on Facebook tells BR readers that their abuse is manifestations of their own mind brought upon themselves and that it’s only abuse if they see it as such. The moment I mention rape, killers, paedo’s etc…tumbleweeds.
You’re talking like one of those people who thinks that because banks or corporations have money, that it’s ok to steal and that they expect it.
I’m not writing about how to get laid and ‘tricks’ that will manipulate people to hopefully do as you want. There’s plenty of playa sites out there – BR is about healthy relationships for people who recognise that unhealthy relationships and talking out of their batty’s doesn’t work for them. You’ll note that many people who lie to themselves and others can’t hack being lied to themselves…
In the spirit of honesty, I’m very wary of people who boast about the usefulness of being deceptive, in much the same way I feel uncomfortable around those who say that age ain’t nothin but a number especially when they’re sleeping with underage people or even children, that they ‘get’ slavery, trafficking of women and children, or making people work for 10p an hour to make their clothes, or that sometimes a woman deserves to be abused or raped.
There are sites for people that hate blacks or people of mixed race, sites for those that like watching snuff movies, sites for hooking up with married people, or for looking at inappropriate images of children. Basically there’s a site to suit every opinion and taste, even illegal and downright unpleasant ones. Sadly.
There are things that I’ve grown up with that are inappropriate – I don’t replicate the shit behaviour and values to my children and justify it as ‘nature’. I and many others here have worked hard and continue to work hard to break away from unhealthy patterns of behaviour that were taught to us as ‘normal’ by people who lacked self-control, morals etc. If the best thing that you have to contribute in this atmosphere is justifications for deceiving people, you’ve taken a wrong turn and should be at some playa site, not at Baggage Reclaim.
Trinity
on 20/12/2011 at 1:54 am
Hi Nat,
I used to be that girl a long time ago. It was NC after my last relationship that helped me stay true to myself, keep me away from a toxic person and allow me to mend and resolve a tonne of my own issues.
NC really works, its hard and feels like your doing the opposite to what you want or what your heart wants but the payoff is escape from something really unhealthy freeing you up to put yourself 1st and allowing yourself to heal and work out issues.
And I figure what my heart wants hasnt gotten me anywhere before, time to use some intellect.
Never go back to or rely on the source of your hurt and pain.
Trin
XXXX
dancingqueen
on 20/12/2011 at 2:01 am
I swear that the only person who can future fake themselves more than me was that ex epiphany…since I started reading this blog it has helped so much to have terms for the things that I have encountered and it is nice to know that I am not the only dreamer out there! I am looking forward to a third date with a guy who seems really interesting and smart and decent and of course already I am either imagining what a jerk he is going to end up being or what a romeo….I really need to just not look ahead! Thanks for the timely post ….it is so hard to stay with the present:)!
Heartache Amy
on 20/12/2011 at 2:24 am
It’s funny – today my friend asked me what I would do if the EU/MM called me and told me he wanted to be with me and that he was leaving his wife. Despite the way he treated me and ended things, I admit that I gave some serious thought to entertaining the idea of being with him again. I do miss him, but then, I remember: he lied to me, he future-faked with me, he twisted things, and in the end, he was rather mean to me. Plus, it would sure be messy with his wife and kids. (I see him at church every week and do my best to avoid him, although I ran into him yesterday and was forced to say hello and answer a question he asked). The problem is that I’m feeling lonely and, not being yet divorced, somewhat undesirable at the moment. But I’m trying to stay positive. Thanks for writing this. I needed it.
brenda
on 20/12/2011 at 2:33 am
What a Great post today…I needed this one!
Nat,Mom asked me what I wanted for Christmas…..Your Books are on the way…I have found it hard this year to get in the spirit,But I am excited to read your books and start a new year!!!
Brenda
runnergirl
on 20/12/2011 at 2:51 am
Hi Natalie,
When I read your previous article on Future-Faking, I clearly realized I had been totally FF’d. Back then, I knew it wasn’t just all him, I had to be participating in the faking in order for it to work. This post really helps me to see that I not only particpated in my own FF’ing but I contributed as well on many different levels. I kept returning to the scene of the crime, circumventing reality while complaining bitterly by future faking myself that it would eventually be different someday…betting on potential in order to get my short term fix. My therapist repeatedly cautioned me about my focus on the future (which worked for me in academia) while my present slipped away. I used those exact same words “I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it” when my best girlfriend cautioned me about getting involved with a MM. That allowed me my uninterrupted fantasy until I could no longer fake it to myself. It is so absolutely true, it’s bad enough he BS’ed me but I BS’ed myself and I came to the bridge. I clearly lacked integrity and honesty with myself which is why I could not smell, see, nor hear no evil. Yup, I am accountable and responsible for my lack of integrity with myself. My self-deception finally wore me down. How did I expect to have a future with a person so unlikely to offer a future together? I know the answer now. I’m not angry any more. Just grateful for the self-awareness. Thank you Natalie. From my kitchen to yours a holiday recipe: 1/8 of tsp of of self-esteem, a 1/4 of a tsp of self-respect, 1/2 tsp of self-love, 1/2 cup of self-forgiveness, and one cup of white chocolate chips. Bake for 30 to 90 days and cool for another 90 days. It’ll be spring/summer and you’ll be done!
Spinster
on 20/12/2011 at 10:18 am
“This post really helps me to see that I not only particpated in my own FF’ing but I contributed as well on many different levels.” –runnergirl
That about sums it up.
Upon reading this latest Natalie post, I see that I future faked with the on-off again man from high school (The Snake). On our last go-round, I guess that I subconsciously or unconsciously figured “Any day now, he’ll leave the girlfriend. He’s been with her for 10 years and they’re not married, so obviously something’s wrong. We’ve gone through ‘SO MUCH’ over the years on this merry-go-round, so there MUST be some reward at the end. The end is coming soon, right? Oh well… I’ll cross that bridge when I get to it.” This didn’t even cross my mind until I read this. Wow.
But it’s true. Deep down, I guess that I DID think he’d leave her & we’d live happily ever after. He left her alright – after 11 years (I actually feel sorry for her because she was faithful to him the whole time) – and met a new woman at a New Year’s Eve party that we attended TOGETHER. Hey, we were both single & talking to different people so neither of us could hold the other accountable… right? All I asked was that he be upfront & honest with me, no matter who (or what) he was doing. Of course he agreed. Come on – do whatever you want as long as you’re honest? A dicksplash’s wildest dream come true!
… until I found out that they weren’t just friends with benefits like he claimed. She was his new girlfriend. I cut him off immediately. (Thank goodness that we NEVER had sex.)
Almost 4 years of no contact – anyone who knows me well, knows that when I cut a person off, it’s for life & no turning back – and I’m so glad that The Snake isn’t slithering around me anymore or ever again (I won’t allow it). But wow… this post made me see that I had even more of a part to play in that madness than I thought. Yikes. 😐 Never again.
Thank goodness for youth, foresight, & wisdom. And thank you for making yet another lightbulb go off in my mind.
grace
on 20/12/2011 at 10:50 am
spinster
lucky escape. i’d be pissed if my boyfriend called me his FWB behind my back.
Spinster
on 20/12/2011 at 1:22 pm
grace: We weren’t even together. 😐 I don’t know WTF to call that merry-go-round that we were on for years. Madness? Yeah, madness. But since I faked – acting like I didn’t care since after all, he was single and so was I – I didn’t think that it’d bother me. But I found out, went ballistic, called & told him to never contact me again. (He did and I ignored him.) That was one of the best decisions I’ve made in my life.
It’s enlightening, and kinda nice, to realize that I future faked too. I’ll make sure to never do that again. 😉
Wizzy
on 20/12/2011 at 6:13 am
I definitely have been future-faked and have also done it to myself it’s like all my relationships have been based on the promise of a fake future. I have always been one to dream up a wonderful fantasy (in my mind) and then go out in search of someone so that the ending can happen.
This is a very wonky way to have relationships, and my past proves it! ?I have a huge pile of nasty relationships to show for it. I was so in love with the imaginary ending that I wouldn’t react appropriately to the grossly inappropriate behaviour that I was experiencing at the time. I fixated on the wonderful ending and got burned because I was not looking. It isn’t that I can’t tell if someone is lying or being a bastard, it’s just that I am looking at a wonderful ending and not wanting to let that go. I explains why I stuck around really nasty inappropriate fiends and couldn’t let go because I had future faked my self to a beautiful magical ending.
Now; woe unto me!… if the guy is a future faker, and he hints that my imaginary ending might happen, he gets Carte Blanche to do his thing in my life while I cling to the dream (which I now feel is definitely assured because he said so. We are soul mates!). I might nag a little, cry, throw a few tantrums when it gets bad and painful but I stick around just in case the fairytale happens, ad nauseum
Magnolia
on 20/12/2011 at 6:37 am
I don’t think you wrote this in response to my last post, but after my last burst of “this time I’m finally going to write my novel/book of short stories!” I read this post with something like shame. I am so sick of promising myself things and not following through. It’s like I got used to disappointing myself in reality, and so I got in the habit of dwelling in fantasies. One day I’ll do x; one day I swear I’m going to do y.
I was out Xmas shopping today and felt my usual sense of being hemmed in by my finances and it dawned on me that I have always told myself that “one day” I’d be able to afford the things I want. It’s now becoming obvious that “one day” will never come if I don’t decide which things I want and start working toward getting them. I believe a big part of the attraction of the exAC was that he provided a lot of what I had been promising myself (materially) – what I felt I deserved – but he could deliver them right now, not in some future that involves the long shot of writing a best seller, or getting the rights optioned on a book I wrote.
There is a lot of pain and embarrassment in feeling that I want things now; in looking squarely at how many times I’ve promised myself I will do something and fail to do it.
I want out of this shame spiral, though. Okay, I said I wanted to do something and I just want to take it back because I don’t want you ladies (and me) to see that I’m full of BS! I don’t want to face you all a year from now when I haven’t done it.
I want this time to be different, and I guess I won’t be sure it has been different until the thing is accomplished. Fortunately part of the change of this past year has been about setting small promises to myself and keeping them, and about working through what it feels like to want something and figuring out how much responsibility I’ll take to get it.
I don’t mean to be super hard on myself; but I do want to be real. It’s not about facing you, or anyone else; it’s about facing myself. All I want for Christmas is ten years of self-trust under my belt!
Leisha
on 20/12/2011 at 1:32 pm
Magnolia, I read your speaking of writing books as a potential goal and not something that has a timetable on it…you have an idea or ideas and you may pursue them. Lady, you are completing a PhD, you are doing intense self-work, you are looking for further advances in your field and applying for them…give yourself a break already!
runnergirl
on 20/12/2011 at 11:32 pm
Hi Magnolia,
I fully agree with Leisha. Slow down girl. I’m not sure Natalie’s post on future-faking directly applies to your desire to write a novel/short stories. That seems more like a long term goal to me. You may do it or not but there is certainly no loss of credibility because you haven’t done it by next year or within 20 years. Goodness, aren’t you defending your thesis in July? One step at a time. You said it yourself: “Fortunately part of the change of this past year has been about setting small promises to myself and keeping them..” Thus, you haven’t been future-faking as I read Natalie’s post. I’ve read Natalie’s responses to you about being too hard on yourself. She’s said that to you as many times as she said to me “Runner, you’re in danger girl”! Based on your posts on this blog, it sounds like you have made tremendous progress this year and you have been an inspiration for many BR readers, including me. Be Proud. Celebrate your many, many accomplishments. Quiet that inner voice.
Also, be careful with the Christmas Shopping Crack. It’s almost impossible not to take a hit when this month is all about spending money. I’ve finally adjusted to not being able to afford everything I think I want. I want limestone tile, granite counter tops, remodeled updated bathrooms, a pool, a jacuzzi, an outdoor fireplace, and a built in bbq. It’d be nice if the TV worked too. Most of all, I want my daughter to have an education. So, I’m baking cookies for xmas presents and knitting scarfs for my nieces.
You are taking the steps to achieve your priority, your PhD and your mental/emotional health. That’s not future-faking. I’m taking the steps to achieve my priority, my daughter’s education and my mental/emotional health. I’m not future-faking.
Mags, I wanted to say before I nod off – this definitely isn’t about you. I had to go back and read your comment.
I have noticed with you that you feel uncomfortable being on a ‘good run’ and so for every two steps of progress you take, you then take another back. This is fine and natural but pay attention to you because you’re undermining yourself by actively seeking to pull yourself down after you pull yourself up. I post three times a week and your cycle shifts each week – allow yourself to feel good and stop being so hard on yourself. You have very unrealistic expectations of yourself and are on one hell of a rollercoaster. Don’t Fast Forward – it’s been a hot minute since you mentioned the book. What are you? On writing acid? Slow your roll. There was no timeline on it. It’s a future goal not an urgent job. Relax!
Elle
on 21/12/2011 at 2:34 am
Mags, As someone who is now a year out of finishing a PhD, please take what everyone is saying to heart: The more anxieties you stir up, especially about who you are and what you have not achieved, while you’re in thesis mode, the longer your recovery will be. Your mind is already being overloaded. It’s doing its best to get you through. It needs exercise, gentleness and rest, not constant reminders that it is not doing enough, or being enough, or getting there quick enough. Focus on your thesis and getting to that finishing line in reasonable mental and physical health. Once the thesis is done, you’ll have a whole part of your life opened up and the energy with which you will be able to meet it will be a function of how you look after yourself now. (I had to spend 6 months at rehab for broke people: at my parents’ place! Mostly resting and only half-heartedly working and certainly not charging towards new horizons. Now I am pursuing all sorts of amazingness.) There is time.
Magnolia
on 23/12/2011 at 7:54 am
Hi Ladies: I am feeling a little fried lately. Feeling not-in-control. The book project I mention has never had a timeline on it, and so never gets done, which is part of why I want to scream thinking about it. It has always been part of my “I’ll do that someday” story. My “but what I really want to do is direct” kind of thing. Anyway.
Thanks for the kindhearted give-your-head-a-shake-girl! messages. Learning to focus on what is on MY plate, and not look at other plates and imaginary plates, is what I keep returning to BR to remember.
I’m at my family’s place in Ontario now, until the new year. I am going to enjoy my brief time away from the hypercompetitive environment of grad school, even if I do use the time to clean out my inboxes and read ahead for next term’s teaching.
My family is abuzz with preparation for my sister’s wedding, which will happen next month. I happen to be in the room fairly often while she skypes with her fiance; makes me wish there were a companion site to BR where a bunch of women would come and post about how real their happiness is in their relationships, and how great their guys are. I have become aware of how tuned to I am to the potential for failure; if I’m not careful, it will affect my ability to be genuinely enthusiastic, for her or myself.
My sis’s fiance really does seem like a great guy, and seems like he loves her. My sis has been through her share of ACs and EUs. It’s good to see someone leave those experiences behind. Though I have to say, for my sis, even though she had many moments of “why me?”, she never let it affect her sense of self-worth. And now she’s with someone who she calls “fabulous.”
It hits pretty close to home to watch my sis get married. In a good way. If she can do it, and she didn’t settle, so can I.
jodie
on 20/12/2011 at 1:17 pm
I think I was with the king of future fakers. For a year, I clung to the little shreds of fantasy that he would throw my way and believed every word, like some obsessed schoolgirl. I was a doormat. He could do anything and I would still want to be with him. He fed me so many false promises, and the worst part was when I realised they were never going to materialise, I would make excuses for him and even blame myself. The last straw came last week, when after telling me for the past 2 months he was coming to spend time with me over xmas (he was supposed to arrive today) he suddenly starts to ignore my calls and texts. This, for me, was my ‘epiphany’ moment. This was when I said to myself enough is enough. This is as far as it goes I literally cannot take anymore crap. So I am now on day 4 of NC and I vow to see it through. I do keep having moments where I think ‘oh but what if his phone was broken and he didnt see all my missed calls/texts blah blah blah…..’ but then I think if the man wanted me, if he was really and truly into me like he made out he was, he would of moved heaven and earth to contact me and be here with me today. I just have to keep reminding myself of that when I feel like making contact.
For me, he has ruined my xmas this year. I am literally at rock bottom and I know the people around me can sense there is something wrong. I am too embaressed to confide in my friends that he has yet again let me down. Especially after saying about how he was coming to visit me with the ‘amazing gift’ he had apparently bought for me. Lastnight, I wrote a list of all his bad points and good. There was a whole page of bad points and only a couple of good points. This speaks for itself and makes any normal person wonder what the heck I saw in him. Im not too sure myself but I know that trying to distance myself from him and fall out of love with him is like coming off a drug. The thing that hurts the most is that I just cant understand how someone can be so into you one minute and just disappear the next, literally overnight. I guess I will never find out, unless I keep asking him. But why should I?
Eloise
on 20/12/2011 at 6:24 pm
Jodie, given that you’ve written a list for this guy – with pages of bad points and only a couple of good points – I really wouldn’t spend too much time trying to figure out why he’s disappeared. It sounds like he’s done you a favour – even if it may not feel like it right now. The only question you could ask yourself is why you were willing to settle for so little and turn a blind eye to so much. Your comment about being afraid to tell your friends makes me feel like you’ve some shame about this guy’s behaviour. Please don’t own someone else’s shoddy behaviour.
I sometimes think this whole dating thing is like a game of snakes and ladders. When you think number 100 is within your sight – you suddenly land on the snake at number 99 and fall all the way back to number 2. For me, it’s been the thought of going back to number 2 that has kept me in some dodgy relationships with losers in the past.
I was in the very same position as you last Xmas (and my birthday is at Xmas also). So, I know how you feel. I wrote off Xmas last year, implemented NC, took myself off on holiday for my birthday and started working on trying to understand why I was willing to settle for so little. It’s the best thing I ever did and (now) I wouldn’t change that time for the world.
Best of luck.
Best of luck to you.
Elle
on 21/12/2011 at 2:42 am
That’s classic, the snakes and ladders analogy. Unlike the game, I think it takes the experience of (and truly getting over) one big ass 99, who takes us right down to two, for us to not to have that again. If I hit another 99 now (and I’ve recently hit a 70!) I certainly would not get taken back to 2.
Jodie – it’s a hideous process, but it gets easier, especially if you concern yourself solely with making things nice and pleasant for you – make yourself a personal health retreat – and DO NOT entertain questions about why he did it, and certainly do not follow any of this up in real life. He acted like a selfish turd because it’s in his nature, he wanted to and because he could.
AngelFace
on 21/12/2011 at 2:58 pm
I sometimes think this whole dating thing is like a game of snakes and ladders. When you think number 100 is within your sight – you suddenly land on the snake at number 99 and fall all the way back to number 2.
OMG. I Love this comparrison. ….I think 6 years ago I fell down the ladder, then I took 5 years completely off from dating. I came upon a whole AC-package of a man/snake…. settled for him, and was too afraid to climb the ladder again. Also, I’m getting older and …….. When I was young and full of admireres and chances for love I could kick an EUM/AC to the curb in seconds.
debra
on 20/12/2011 at 2:18 pm
“It’s also important to recognise that bullshit begets bullshit, so if you lack honesty and integrity with yourself, you won’t be able to smell what’s wrong with a person or situation, because it will be clouded out by the smell of your own bullshit.”
Amen, amen. What I love about this site is the fearless way you deal with what is really the problem. I could have told you nine ways to Sunday what the AC did in his future faking, but the truth is, I was right there with him. I was so caught up in my own fantasy of what was happening, I couldn’t see he was totally full of it. I spent so much time analysing and “spin doctoring” the relationship because without all the projection and drama, I might have had to face the fact that there was no relationship to begin with. What he did was manipulative and cruel. What I did was naive and foolish. No one gets to claim the moral high ground here.
Lynda from L
on 20/12/2011 at 2:24 pm
For me, the future with him, was not to be fake.
When I looked at him, I loved him. I bent my life around being with him, checking his opinion on the minutiae, the actual cast of his eye while he problem solved or laughed is still with me.. I did not crowd, nor did I neglect. I tried(and failed) to stay me throughout.
I believed him when he referred to his ex wife as the first Mrs….., and me as the second Mrs….when he planned for me to move in. I looked for jobs in his city. I referred of him to family and friends as’ How did I get this so late’, ‘How lucky am I.’ It did not feel fake. I did this in response to his urging and promises. To his words, to his words….
Although I did not mishear or misinterpret the meaning.
I misinterpreted the man.
BR has helped change me, not only in how I esteem me but in how I evaluate others. I have to believe that even for the moment, indeed a series of moments he saw himself in that future with me. He got caught up in it. I still think his verbal abuse is awful, I hate the urge to hedonism which he presented and of course I hate the future fakery.
However If I am being real about this relationship and my own future happiness, I have to admit he was a good dad,hardworking,funny, kind to me and sensitive. There was a spark.
Onto this spark(this is the sad bit) I soldered values of commitment,trust,care,future planning,joint decision making, co-piloting.
Onto this spark he soldered good times,listening ear,regular sex, a companion for interests,someone on his arm,bit of culture.
This did not fan a mutual flame. I am proud that I eventually held out for what I wanted. After three days a week for seventeenth months, I wanted recognized commitment, to everyone , everywhere. I just wanted to know what was going on…
I did not get this. I got proverbial humms, status quo negotiating, fading,hot, cold.. This at least was not fake. His behaviour was and is staring me in the face.
Future Faking is such a comfort zone at first. It’s the first pillow that we can both rest upon. A big bouncy bubble, essentially of hot air.. to burst it takes courage, caring for yourself more than a fantasy, believing in your ‘own’ future and the knowledge that bursting will absolutely end the relationship…and a signpost back to self.
NCC
on 20/12/2011 at 6:21 pm
Lynda,
Future Faking is such a comfort zone at first. It’s the first pillow that we can both rest upon. A big bouncy bubble, essentially of hot air.. to burst it takes courage, caring for yourself more than a fantasy, believing in your ‘own’ future and the knowledge that bursting will absolutely end the relationship…and a signpost back to self.
So well put. “It’s the first pillow….”I tell you I can remember the first time he said to me what i wanted to hear, and it did feel like a big comfy pillow to rest all of my fears and doubts on. It was wonderful, it was the first time in maybe my whole life I felt a sense of security. But why do I also know that I didn’t really believe it? Was he saying it too soon, was it because I knew I was ignoring red flags, I knew from day 1 he was shady?
I also feel that I too went into this relationship trying to be my authentic self (but was I? I feel like normal to me IS trying to make fancy out of garbage.) But it quickly changed. When I felt those icky butterflies over what I thought was inappropriate behavior, I tried to rationalize and minimize, telling myself I don’t really know him all that well yet, maybe this isn’t weird, maybe it’s just me. I can’t be too clingy. What’s weird too is, as much of a habitual liar this man is, he told me ugly truths too, that came out harsh and cruel, like he was “warning” me and if I wanted to put up with it, it would be my fault in the end if I got hurt. But then he lied to cover up his infidelity, his financial problems, his mangled relationship with his ex wife…talk about a mindf*#k. The lies seemed to cover the shame he has about himself. The nasty truths, he didn’t care if those hurt me, he was able to be honest about that because his arrogance told him hey, this is just who you are. He literally told me at different times, “I have never met anyone I’ve wanted to marry again since my ex wife. This is the longest relationship i’ve had since my divorce. You are different, you are special.” Then other times, “I can date any girl I want to, I don’t have problems getting women, it’s just that I don’t want to be dating anyone but you.” “I never learned how to treat a woman right…” On a trip, someone once asked, “are you guys married.” His reply was a sarcastic humiliating “NO way!” while looking at me in disgust. Guess he thought it was funny. I didn’t.
Lynda from L
on 21/12/2011 at 2:14 pm
Thanks for comment NCC, stick to your guns…you’re well out of it.
Don’t beat yourself up too much… I’m trying not to. Here’s to an actual future!
Lyric
on 20/12/2011 at 2:33 pm
beautiful blog post….thank you =)
Nette
on 20/12/2011 at 2:39 pm
This is the 15th day with no contact. It is not getting better, actually worse. The depression was unbearable for the first week but I knew that I could not take him back. There has been another woman in my estimation for atleast 2 years so the future faking was over. Now, although I am not crying daily I see myself headed for failure. He called 4 days after I kicked him out but I didn’t answer. Now, I am wondering how could he just let go when I am hurting, wondering how well they are doing over there, I started “researching” him online last night and this morning fantasizing about the apology he will give now that he knows that I am not taking it anymore. He is surprised that I have not attempted to contact him (first time with no contact for 2 weeks) and he will realize that I am not a doormat anymore. He will change!
I was so overwhelmed with those thoughts this morning I knew that I needed help so I came here for inspiration. The article and responses are helping me stay strong. Yes, the pain is unbearable but the alternative is not better.The truth is when could not take it, he left, when I was a doormat, he still left. When I could not take the crap and he left it was MY fault, when I was a doormat and he left it was his fault for being embarrassed that he could not pay his own way, help me out blah blah. He won’t change, he won’t commit to me, I won’t be surprised if he ends up marrying her. Any discussion of marriage somehow led to an argument or him leaving for a few days. I listened to the fact that he needed to get his life together before we could make plans for 4 years. The only difference now is that he has been working for 3 months, of course I helped him get that job! Nothing else has changed so what can I really expect?
Unlike others I do not have the wish of a meaningful relationship. Maybe it is too early for me to see a bright side.
grace
on 20/12/2011 at 4:27 pm
Nette
Let me be the one to break it to you. 15 days is not long. You don’t erase four years in two weeks.
Everything else you say is pretty much what we have all gone through, are going through or will go through. Take comfort from the fact that you are far from the only one to go through this.
I say six months for a marked improvement. If there isn’t one, then it’s time to take remedial action. Such action not to involve getting back together with him in any way, shape or form.
Don’t research him online either.
colororange
on 21/12/2011 at 2:45 pm
Nette,
Ditto what grace said…
It’s been about 3 weeks for me. It’s a whopping b#tch, let me tell you but the sadness/disappointment/whatever that I feel right now is better than the pain I was feeling when talking to the MM. The pain I was feeling of wanting a relationship with a taken man. I’ve known him for four years. I know if I buckle now and hit him up, I’m pretty much making myself look a fool. I’m saying to him “step all over me some more so I can muddle around here again to try but fail to get you to be with me.” Believe me, I tried every which way, written and spoken, that I could think of, to get him to “see”. I’m actually glad I get this sick feeling in my stomach when I think about sending him an email or something. But I can’t get him to see anymore than we can get you to see. Hang on, girl.
Fearless
on 21/12/2011 at 4:50 pm
coloro
“Believe me, I tried every which way, written and spoken, that I could think of, to get him to “see”.”
Here’s the thing: He does see! He sees perfectly well. It is us who fail to see.
And he doesn’t bother trying to explain it to us fifty million different ways – he imagines we should be smart enough to take his very obvious hints, i.e. that he. is. not. there.
These men are not daft, coloro – usually quite the reverse. They don’t need you (or me or anyone) to enlighten them. What is needed is for us to enlighten ourselves – and when we do we won’t waste our time anymore with men who do not want to be with us (while we keep trying to explain to them that they do and all what else they are doing “wrong” – they don’t give a crap!)
colororange
on 21/12/2011 at 6:42 pm
ouch, ok, Fearless I hear you. He doesn’t want to be with me. I get it. I remind myself of that daily. Bet on it.
NCC
on 21/12/2011 at 8:25 pm
sometimes the tough love stuff is just that, freakin tough! Tough to hear, tough to say, and even tougher to want to believe. Some of us work better with it than others, but i do think that for real change vs. us just wallowing in this endless sorrow forever and remaining in denial, it is necessary. We are all in the same boat but in different stages of this process as well. Be gentle with yourself, but keeping it real is kinda where we have to end up, if we really hope to change. I hate hearing that my EUM/AC doesn’t give a s*%t about what I need, nor does he care to hear me over and over and over and over tell him why he hurt me, but i’ve gotta understand that. I finally realized that, he’s gone down the path of least resistance, aka a new woman who doesn’t yet know his AC ways, and that doesn’t include me anymore because he does know that he won’t make me happy, and he cares more about himself than me. Ok, fine buddy. We can take the path of least resistance as well, in a positive way, meaning the path that doesn’t include us wasting our time with his resistance to “get” us, to finally see the error of his ways and be prince charming. Won’t happen. If we have to convince someone to treat us well, ick, no thanks.
Laurie
on 20/12/2011 at 3:46 pm
Such a wonderful, timely post. And I can’t begin to tell you all what an encouragement it is to read the insights from all you seasoned BR readers. I am so tempted to allow my distorted way of thinking take me down a path that’s going to end in misery—thankfully there are so many of you waving caution flags as if to say, “turn the hell around” and “this is going to end badly for you.”
My ex and I were engaged at one point, and before everything started heading south this summer, we had planned to be married by this time. It’s hard letting go of him and the future we had planned together. Neither of us were ‘faking’ that future at the time, but that’s what I’m tempted to do NOW with all the “what ifs” and “if onlys”. I think it’s especially hard because this failed engagement immediately followed my failed marriage. It’s tempting to simply feel like a failure. Why couldn’t I get these guys to make good on their promises? I know they meant to be with me for the rest of their lives. At the time, I know they meant every word. My ex-husband literally abandoned me at an airport in Northern Ireland because he couldn’t *handle* my depression anymore. We had only been married for a few months, but I had become extremely depressed moving to a different country where I didn’t know anybody and wasn’t allowed to work because of VISA issues. Looking back, I can muster up enough courage to tell myself that I wasn’t a failure. I was young, immature, and scared. And my husband was too.
I think the divorce was a huge reason for me to try to make this last relationship work. I didn’t want to feel like an even bigger failure. I didn’t want to feel like there is something intrinsically wrong with me to make people break their promises to me. So…here I’ve been for the past few days thinking, I’ll give it a month. I’ll call him. We’ll meet up for lunch. We’ll have a great time together—no pressure. He’ll realize that he misses me; that I am the One after all, and then we’ll get back together, get married, and live happily ever after. IN MY MIND. It’s been so hard, but I keep telling myself: even if everything worked out in this nice little fantasy world of mine, would I really feel secure in this relationship? If I have to use stratagems to *convince* someone that I’m worth pursuing, is it really worth it? It’s pretty degrading, honestly. And manipulative. Because even though…
Diane L
on 20/12/2011 at 6:12 pm
This totally describes my relationship with my ex-bf. I fell for his BS sooo many times. I believed he’d buy me a ring, a nice apartment, we’d live happily ever after….blah, blah, bullshit!! When I called him on his bad behavior, he tried to turn it around on me, yet again…that’s when I finally realized I truly had had enough of looking like a fool.
I am now with a man who is real and doesn’t dangle a carrot in front of my nose to get me to do things HE wants me to do.
Marianne13
on 20/12/2011 at 7:23 pm
Nathalie,
Thank you for your brilliant website and oh-soooo-sobering advice – you have helped me to untangle my silliness better than any therapist ever could… and for free! You have a gift and we are blessed that you choose to share it with us. I’ve passed your site along to all my friends in Canada and abroad – your wisdom is literally healing women across the globe. Beat that.
I hope your holidays are full to the brim with the wisdom and the peace that you so freely give to others.
Cheers from Montreal,
Marianne (no contact for two amazing months)
Stephanie
on 20/12/2011 at 8:18 pm
I suppose I could describe myself as a future faker as well because I allowed my self to be future faked! I lapped up the attention, compliments and fantasied what a life with him would be like. However I saw through the lies/false promises pretty quickly as his actions were not matching his words. When I questioned “where this was going” he disappeared as quickly and quietly as he could. I then thought (but didn’t do it) of every trick in the book to win him back, I wanted him to want me again (validation)
Nette – Believe me when I say I know what you are going through! I literally could not get out of bed to go to work because I felt heartbroken, alone, depressed and just rubbish! I couldn’t believe that the person I was seeing could just drop me without ANY word or explanation. One day I was the centre of his universe and the next he just stopped calling/texting and didn’t answer any of my calls. I was baffled, hurt, confused and my self esteem was on the floor! I told everyone who would listen the story of our romance over and over again. You must believe that you will start to feel better, as time goes by and things become more apparent you’ll see that its better to continue NC and get on with your life. Sounds easier said then done? If I can do it anyone can because I allowed someone to make me hit rock bottom and I have picked myself up and said “enough”! I’m taking time out from dating (and definitely won’t be doing on-line dating again) and getting back to my old self and starting to feel good again. Technically I didn’t have to do NC because he done it to me! Just come here everyday and read the various posts and stories and you’ll see that we are more or less all in the same boat, so your not on your own. 🙂
Nette
on 21/12/2011 at 4:46 am
Stephanie,
Thanks soooooo much!
colororange
on 21/12/2011 at 2:49 pm
Stephanie,
Isn’t this online dating thing funny? It’s a new phenomenon and I wonder my gosh there are other ways to meet men (or women if they’re your preference). I mean look at the thousands of years behind us of people who have managed to get together one way or the other. I’m not sure why online dating is pushed to be one of the “best” or “only” ways to meet someone.
Stephanie
on 21/12/2011 at 6:50 pm
Colororange
I totally agree, I actually tried it for the first time a few months ago. It was a site that’s considered a bit more upmarket that matches you on compatibility and so on. After only being on-line for a week I met what I thought was a very gorgeous, smart, hard working guy (he’s a banker). Without boring you with all the details within a couple of weeks later he had future faked me to the hills. Wanted to take me on holiday, thought I was the one he could finally settle down with and marry, took me to dinner, cooked me dinner, texted/called throughout the day and so on. However within a further few weeks later his words did not match his actions! My point is a lot of these guys on-line are predators! I didn’t want to believe this about him because he totally swept me off my feet but they come in all shapes and sizes! I’ve tried it but on-line dating is not for me and I wouldn’t encourage it to anyone.
LA
on 20/12/2011 at 11:31 pm
Yes. Yes. And yes. Guilty as charged.
My break up with the ex and wading back into the dating pool have taught me a lot about this subject.
I want to be in a happy, fulfilling relationship. However, when it comes to relationships, I tend to chase the short term fix. This has meant:
* staying in a relationship with my ex AC, knowing he wasn’t the right one for me to avoid the pain of the break up.
* being attracted to men that are outwardly successful and interesting and regularly featured in the media but EU (my last dating experience was with a CEO connected to billionaires/celebrities/politicians – but married to his job).
On the weekend I went to a wedding and actually met a nice, normal guy. Not a CEO, not wealthy, not in the media – but a nice, emotionally healthy, sweet guy. There was an instant attraction, which I have only had one other time in my life. This is new for me.
I need to think long term, rather than chase the short term fix of “Oh, isn’t he interesting/successful and he likes me.” These relationships have got me nowhere in the past.
Another insight that I’ve learnt recently as well is this:
I’ve had to fight the feeling that I’m running out of time to meet someone (a combination of the biological clock and my perspective that life only happens once and I need to make the absolute most of it, which means a fulfilling relationship). However, I have realised that it is better to take the time now to meet the RIGHT person, than waste years of my life with someone that I have settled for and does not make me happy.
Living in a fantasy world and chasing a short term fix will not lead me into a healthy, normal, fulfilling relationship.
I need to accept being alone now, whether it be for a month, year, or ten years, and wait for the RIGHT person to spend the rest of my life with, rather than spending the next month, year or ten years chasing short term fixes with EU/ACs and being unhappy in the long-term.
Eternal Summer
on 21/12/2011 at 12:04 am
I’ve either thought or commented several times on other posts that this is your “best post ever”, but this is really your best post ever…
lynne
on 21/12/2011 at 12:51 am
i was doing really well being nearly four months NC and suddenly, feel horrified at myself that i have declared it really over.
i am noshing like a starved bear …
i feel like NCC right now. i printed her reply out to reread. maybe it is the christmas crack … must be. you want everything to be sweet and soft at this time … and then jan 2nd to get tough about life again.
i find myself looking for excuses to call his friend … his friend still has a book of mine. but when i changed my no. i did not pass it along so i kinda cut him off too … after all he was the unavailable’s friend, not mine.
boy … this stuff is so hard. i thought i was completely in the clear … now i am creating texts to send his friend, trying to pry. ugh.
CoffeeCat
on 21/12/2011 at 9:35 pm
Lynne — stay strong, hon. 4 months was my cracking point and I did it. From experience, please don’t. It will pass and you will be so much stronger without the backsliding. ((hugs))
colororange
on 21/12/2011 at 10:11 pm
lynne,
I’m just going out on a limb here but if you contact this “friend” and he gives word back to the ex…….I’d imagine the ex would get the idea you’re snooping around. I used to find the flimsiest reasons to get in contact with an ex but you can always buy that book again. They’re cheap on Amazon.
runnergirl
on 22/12/2011 at 12:12 am
Hey lynne,
I loved the phrase “noshing like a starved bear”. I can totally relate. In the US we call it “jonsing”. Like Coloro and Coffee Cat, I’d suggest hanging tight. Don’t text the friend. It is too obviously desperate. After 5-6 months strict NC, a month or so ago, the exMM was doing the scouting thing and contacting my friend who promptly reported back to me even though she didn’t have a clue cos I was an OW. It just made me laugh to know that he was still rooting around trying to see what I was doing. He just came off like a desperate fool. Don’t be the desperate fool. I knew he was fishing and your ex will know too. At some point the rubber meets the road and no amount of future faking by you or by him can mask reality. Stick it out. It gives me great glee to know that he doesn’t know what I’m doing. By next year, I won’t even care whether he knows what I’m doing. Feed your hungry bear with a pot of homemade stew.
Fearless
on 22/12/2011 at 1:11 am
“At some point the rubber meets the road and no amount of future faking by you or by him can mask reality. Stick it out.”
So true runner. Wise words.
SM
on 21/12/2011 at 2:16 am
I never thought of ‘sucking and seeing’ as future faking, but it is! When I’ve gone back, I knew that it wasnt going to work, I knew I would have to face my friends and family as to why I was putting myself in the same situation. I always thought future faking was making promises about the future that one never intended to go through with. But it can also mean knowing that they dont intend to carry through on their promises but fooling yourself into thinking they will or knowing they wont but you ignore that tidbit because of whatever you are getting at the moment. I’ve done both and sometimes wasnt even surprised when nothing materialized. I’ve had two friends tell me in the last week that their boyfriends have basically told them the relationship is going nowhere but they are sticking around because of the holidays. One wouldnt want to be dateless on New Years even if it is fake.
Agirliknow
on 21/12/2011 at 8:11 am
Three words for ya’ll….wolf, Wolf, WOLF!!! Why isnt anyone running? Let me see if I can figure it out…create drama, check…attention seek…check. Everything, check. My esteem is so below the basement (me, not him) that I keep reading “fake it til u make it” & “believe it and it will happen” (not here Nat) can I just say I feel like an even bigger ass for it! Oh I can drum up some really self rightious bs. And not much the pagent type, I still think I reign as ‘Lil Miss Instant Gratification’. The drug reference is so true too. I know it takes about as long to dig out of a hole that it took you to dig. My FF mentality is the stubborn kid who stays out past dark because ‘By God, tell ME to come in, IM going to make it to China (hole digging). Sigh. Like I say, drama, check. Im ready to fel better now.
Leisha
on 21/12/2011 at 10:53 am
Hi Natalie, I’m reading Steven Carter’s “He’s Scared She’s Scared” and I’m reminded that like when I studied biology in college, I used several sources to give me information on the subject in a variety of methods which gave me the basic same info but stated it differently and thus my learning was active and not repetitive through memorisation. Your site, suggested readings, “How to survive your breakup and make it the best thing that ever happened to you”….all of these are teaching me…different voices but similar messages…it is so awesome to have writing and communication available to seekers…and the sharing of the learning which comes about from our lives…invaluable. Wishing you the best and glorious holidays with your loved ones. May 2012 serve us all in our quests. Peace to us all ladies and gents.
Michelle
on 21/12/2011 at 5:50 pm
I love how this blog has awaken me to the role I also played in what happened between me and the guy I was putting up with. It’s different however than blaming myself which I did a lot of in the very beginning. “What did I do wrong?” “Did I push him away?” etc etc etc. Most of you know this song and dance.
Now however, I am able to take responsibility in a logical and constructive way. I see that yes, while he lied and did things I would never have done to him, I was also likely emotionally unavailable not to mention an entire slew of other things (low self-esteem in particular) which is why I struck around. It really does take two for the most part and I have accepted that and don’t go around loathing him anymore. I’m still upset over what he did (lied, made everything into one huge riddle, hanging and almost certainly sleeping with another girl because he didn’t know we were “together”, blowing hot and cold, playing the victim) and on and on and on. But I’m not wrecked with rage anymore which is a nice feeling. I like to move on from things, learning from them so to better myself but inevitably, moving forward.
This blog has indefinitely been the #1 source of me being able to do just that. I see myself in such a different and more positive light than I did just 5-6 months ago. It’s insane the amount of learning and development that can manifest from a bad situation which lead me to the discovery of this blog.
grace
on 21/12/2011 at 8:54 pm
michelle
I think six months really is the magic turning point provided you actively pursue your own happiness (counselling, gym, going out, reading, meditation, religion, whatever rocks your boat), rather than just sit at home shooting yourself in the foot (oh woe is me, I can’t get over it, I’m crap, I’m worthless, I’ll never love again, everyone hates me).
I managed do drag out my recovery for over three years but, you know what, it was still worth it! At least that three years is behind me and not in front of me. The sooner you commit to your real future (not your fake one), the sooner it will come.
PS it won’t be three years for anyone else out there. I didn’t have BR at the time and didn’t know about the powers of NC.
Michelle
on 24/12/2011 at 6:39 am
Grace,
Thanks for the reply! I believe it has been 6 months for me as well. Yup, six months exactly. I guess that really is a magic number. There were days when I would look back after it all and just feel so sad about everything all over again. Now when I think back sometimes, even to the moments that were great, I don’t feel sad. I feel indifferent. They were moments in my life like any other. I don’t regret that they’re over or anything of the sort much like I used to. Now I know that there is much better out there and that those moments will eventually be trumped by others vastly superior with someone who is emotionally avaliable and wants what I want.
Stephanie
on 21/12/2011 at 9:18 pm
Michelle
I totally agree with you as well! I was stuck on thinking when I met him I was so happy, but now he has left/dumped me I feel like shit! The lesson I have learnt is that although I felt good at the time I wasn’t “dating with my self esteem in tow”. Because if I had, I would have questioned certain behaviour and things that he said without just brushing them over and thinking I am going to be the one to change him. This guy would actually brag about the amount of women that find him attractive (red flag) and that at 35 years old he had met so many nice women but chose not to settle down with them because it didn’t suit his lifestyle. Although this made me feel uncomfortable and wonder if I was good enough, I didn’t bloody say anything to him! On reflection I should have questioned him about this or just realised what a tosser he really is and bounced, but I didn’t I continued to future fake with him.
However, I have learnt so much from it and I too am no longer angry or sad. This site and a book called In the Meantime (which I recommend) have been an absolute God send. Thanks NML 🙂
Michelle
on 24/12/2011 at 6:46 am
Hey Stephanie
I did the exact same thing! I overlooked behaviors and didn’t speak up when I should have. The guy I put up with straight out said one time to an acquaintance right in front of me that “relationships were shit,” and pretty much hinted that sex was all you needed etc. When he said it, he looked at me from the corner of his eye and started to laugh. I overlooked it because he has such a warped and dry sense of humor that even his friends (whom have known him for years) don’t know when he’s being serious or not for a large majority of the time. Instead, I should have confronted this comment and talked to him about it. Whether it was a joke or not shouldn’t have mattered because it made me uncomfortable. But nope, I just kept on lying to myself and trucking forward.
It’s such a great feeling not to be angry or sad anymore. This site really is amazing. And I’m totally going to look into that book! 😉
A
on 21/12/2011 at 9:32 pm
“What is needed is for us to enlighten ourselves – and when we do we won’t waste our time anymore with men who do not want to be with us (while we keep trying to explain to them that they do and all what else they are doing “wrong” – they don’t give a crap!)”
Good point, Fearless. My EU obviously didn’t care when he was being rude, disrespectful, etc. He once responded to me (briefly and calmly) telling him a comment was rude with, ‘are you done yet?’ I still feel like it would have been nice to give him a 20 words or less run down at the end, but he wouldn’t have heard it, and even if he did, it wouldn’t result in some kind of fundamental change–it’s all ‘me me me’ with these guys, which is obviously how he wants it.
However, I’m not sure that he was all that aware of what was going on. Of course he knew that I still wanted him and was taking advantage of that, but at the same time I do think he was back and forth on what he wanted. I do think he had feelings for me–who knows, maybe he thought we would be together down the line, although that’s obviously not good enough–but I think part of the reason it was hard to make sense of his actions is b/c he was legitimately all over the place. He’s gone on more than once about “how much he has going on in his mind” blah blah. Not to make excuses–either way, scatter brained or deliberate, it’s not good enough. I think sometimes when they run hot it’s b/c they mean it at the time….and then when something more is expected of them they flake out yet again.
Fearless
on 21/12/2011 at 10:32 pm
A
“part of the reason it was hard to make sense of his actions is b/c he was legitimately all over the place.”
Yes, I do agree, up to a point -he is wanting what he wants when he wants it but he is riddled with ambivalence. They hardly know what they want from one five minutes to the next – fickleness personified. They do know – full well – that they are crap boyfriends, that they run hot and cold, that their behaviour must be confusing, they know their behaviour is selfish, that they don’t want you getting too close, that they don’t want you expecting too much, that they don’t want to commit to anything, that they want things to happen on their own terms and those terms include changing the goal posts whenever they feel like it – they do know all of this. It’s not news to them. They do know that they make very bad boyfriends – they know their behaviour is hurtful. So, all I’m saying is, they know all of this, which is why they have nothing to say when it’s pointed out to them (at least my ex EUM went silent as the grave at the first hint of me telling him what I thought he didn’t get). They don’t need us to explain this to them five million different ways as if they will suddenly “get it” and give us the relationship we want. They already get that they are a waste of our time, is all I’m saying. It’s us who don’t get it…yet! But we all of us will, eventually.
grace
on 22/12/2011 at 9:41 am
fearless
They know. In a moment of contrition the playa said to me “I’m sorry I was a crap boyfriend. I was always going to be a crap boyfriend”. Then he went on to treat me worse than before.
They hold down jobs, play bills, maintain friendships, plan holidays, drive cards, apply for mortgages, feed themselves, iron shirts, put up flatpack furniture, manage a workforce, write music, teach, bring up children. But suddenly when it comes to us they don’t have a clue? If we love them so much we should at least credit them with a baseline level of intelligence. By making excuses for them we are, in fact, being quite patronising towards them and treating them as less than us. “Oh I can’t expect him to understand because he’s not as good/smart/patient/aware as I am”.
They’re not unaware. They just act stupid because it gets them benefits with no cost to themselves.
When I look back, the playa – all of 28 years old and full of boyish charm – played me like the most expert of fly fishers.
Fearless
on 22/12/2011 at 3:02 pm
Yes Grace. I completely agree. I have no idea why I felt compelled to “explain” it all the the ex EUM arsey man. I did stop eventually cos he never made any response – he would not engage with it at all.
Yes, he held down a professional and highly skilled job. An v successful academic – a great thinker – world leader in his field – he could write ten thousand word ‘essays’ for journals without a flinch; he is editor of many publications; he is on the board for this and that and everything else… he is chairman of this and that and everything – essentially he reads and writes and teaches for a living – but ask him to engage in some genuine, heartfelt, frank, open and honest communication and he was was apparently reduced to the level of the illiterate – I would get two or three words containing two syllables each, at most – by text or email and those two or three words would read like a riddle. But the point is that he is most certainly not illiterate, he is in fact highly skilled in that area. So they do know – he knew exactly what he was doing far better than I did – and he wasn’t about to enlighten me! He is also an arsehole. By his own final admission. That’s what he was trying to conceal from me all this time!
Michelle
on 24/12/2011 at 6:32 am
I too felt compelled to explain and tell the guy I was with exactly what he had done wrong and what was wrong with him. I thought I needed him to provide me with closure but this blog taught me that is not the case at all, I am in control of creating that for myself etc. Like Grace said, he played dumb with me. When I confronted him about being with another girl it was all “I’m confused.” His words exactly. Yet, to his friends and mine (because I know him through a best-friend’s boyfriend,) he admitted that he did know what was going on and wanted to know “who told,” etc. When I broke no contact with him and did say much of what I felt I needed to say at that time his response was to ask me about my trip (which I had been on when I found out about him and this other girl etc). I poured out everything to him, took accountability for my part in things, tried to generate a conversation and he blatantly ignored it, pleaded ignorance and refused to take accountability. That’s when I finally realized that he was an extreme waste of time. I cannot be with someone who deals with situations in life by ignoring them and playing the victim. People who cannot own up to their actions concern me a great deal. And now to this day, he ignores every situation in which I will be present. Talk about a sad way to live your life not to mention pathetic.
A
on 22/12/2011 at 6:36 pm
Fearless,
Thanks for the reply. I agree that it’s a waste of time trying to explain anything. I’m sure that in my case the EU knew that certain actions were bs, but I also think that he considers himself to be a great catch and justifies a lot of his behaviour to himself. At a certain point I guess there is no sense in trying to figure out someone who thinks and behaves irrationally!
grace
on 23/12/2011 at 10:13 am
A
exactly.
If I turned up at your house and started throwing all your books on the floor, tormenting your dog, raiding the fridge, while all the time announcing that I’m a great house guest, a terrific friend, and a very houseproud and tidy person would you
a) follow me around, telling me about myself
b) ask me lots of pertinent, searching questions; or
c) kick me out?
Lovingme
on 21/12/2011 at 9:45 pm
Hi guys, thanks for all your posts, I’m not having a brilliant day today but that’s ok, I’m still resolved to NC and see the ex clearly for what he is, a lazy, lying, non working, chasing every woman in site, child leaving, taking money from mother, cruel, heartless EUM/AC. I was feeling very loving today, towards all people and yes,
the AC, not in a way that I wanted to be back
with him but seeing him as I like to see all
people ~ I like to see the good in people, but
this is dangerous territory for me to go down, I
am better off remembering how he treated me
and concentrating on looking after me and
Natalie, these guys should be outed, big time,
as in, you should write a movie, I’m sure it would
be a hit, these guys are everywhere but as one
of you ladies already said, they really do not like
themselves at all and to be that dishonest is a
terrible tragedy, a terrible way for anyone to be
and it permeates those around them, I am just
so glad I can once again be honest, open and
just simply being me ~ if I’m not good enough
for him then bloody good, maybe he’ll leave me
the hell alone. I was wondering why he hadn’t
called, now I’m glad he hasn’t but I’m quite sure
he will as he wants me as a fall back girl, not
because of anything to do with me but because
he needs the attention of women to make him
feel ok, well, I’ve done my time with him, nearly
6 years, my child bearing years gone but hey, it
taught me a lesson I needed to learn, to love,
care for and respect me, it’s been 3 week NC so
I’m not expecting miracles, the feelings, thoughts
etc will fade in time but in the mean time I’m
looking after me and getting on with my life
even if that means just caring for me for now.
But couldn’t do it without this site, without you
Natalie and all you ladies ~ apart from the one that confused me with thinking it’s ok or even good to be deceitful???? I have a migraine and can’t take in that rubbish tonight. Thank you ladies, as always, good luck to all xxx
Cyril
on 22/12/2011 at 4:37 am
This article is right on the mark. I know I’ve been guilty of this at times and it pains me to see other people making that same mistake. In fact I forwarded this article to a friend who is future faking herself beyond belief. She was so in denial that she couldn’t realize the article described our last 7 conversations about her ex. 🙁
Unfortunetly, I am guilty of being this person. The horrible part is that I do it not only to myself but my husband! The whole I promise I’ll massage you if you massage me first then when it’s time to give I’m too tired. A lot of dieters or addicts I could also see being this way. If this is my last burger today I’ll start running tomorrow or this is my last drag of a cig tomorrow I’ll quit. Great post! Thanks for sharing!!
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Hi Natalie,
These reminders that keep me grounded in reality is just what this dreamer needs. I still have dreams that I may someday meet a good man and will be able to have a respectful, equal, mutually connected relationship with him. The difference is that now, these dreams are realistic.
Thanks to your timely strengthening wise words I have been able to learn the lessons I needed, from my ‘epiphany’ relationship, to love and forgive myself enough to have the power to disentangle myself from dysfunctional relationships and to experience life in all it’s abundance.
Thanks to you and the BR team sharing their stories. I am free to be true to myself in relationships. Happy New Year everyone. 😀
I agree! I have read this site inside and out and still come back for touch-ups! I have been single and HAPPY for two years now which, in the past, would have made me gasp. I watch my friend stay with an assclown as she clings to the crumbs and the hope that he will make her the exception. She is the one who turned me on to the site, but I guess it didn’t click with her. Take your time to be alone and get to know yourself. Read these posts and get clear on what you want and what you believe. I want to love myself and be happy in my present and confident in my future. I don’t want to future fake myself and end up nowhere fast, having missed the ride and joys of MY life.
Natalie, I am walking the talk and your blogs have everything to do with it. Thank you
Me too. I am walking the talk. Feels good too.
Very thought provoking stuff! It’s interesting, because aside from my ex being an ass, if I developed amnesia like a soap opera charcter and wanted to go back (I’d rather eat questionable sushi laced with broken glass tempura. Trust.), I feel like I could never do it out of respect for the people who care about me and supported me. It would be a lot like the ACs that keep popping up with their “Woe is me! My cat ran away (in 1987).” And then treating the person whose life they are disrupting like sh*t. Obviously that’s not to say that you’re a selfish assclown if you opt back in – hell, if that were true I’d be an assclown many times over! In both scenarios the common ground is a total disregard for reality and consequences. I think the bottom line is that is you want to live a largely drama-free existance, don’t bs yourself or anyone else!
I feel like I could never do it out of respect for the people who care about me and supported me.
Exactly Natasha! I know some of my strength has had to come from this very same thought! Why future fake people that care about ME and want to see me happy! Why tell them “oh i’m so done with him” when I was still going back! A good friend of mine called me out not long ago when I had a blab session of how ridiculous the assclown is, then when it was just the two of us, she asked, “ok, so what’s really going on with you guys?’ It wasn’t mean or cold hearted of her, she was totally accepting of my answer, but I said to myself, wow, not only did she see right through my BS, I hate this feeling of not being authentic! I meant what i said about his assclownery, but i had talked to him just that day, maybe even seen him. I don’t even know if she intended it, but it put a much needed mirror up in front of me.
I feel like I could never do it out of respect for the people who care about me and supported me.
Exactly. After EVERYTHING my ex did to me, not just the whole amazingly selfish bullshit he demanded when I accidentally got pregnant, but even before that – my family and friends ENDLESSLY said to me – ‘you aren’t ever going to go back to him are you?’ For awhile I found it insulting – then I thought about it and realized that due to my previous behaviour in dropping court charges and taking him back time again, believing his bullshit that he would fix himself and change… I had no one to blame but myself for my family and friends having doubt in me. I had to PROVE to them, I have changed and therefore I would never go back to that asshat. They stopped asking by the way. Clearly they see the ‘improved’ me and don’t doubt that I would never go back to that man.
By the way, he is bullshitting himself still, and I pretty much think everything he says is bullshit too. He recently regaled me (while we were doing the daughter swap on his ‘daddy daycare’ days) with the story of how he dislocated his shoulder – rolling out of bed. RIGHT! LOL! The only 2 times in the past that has happened were due to his rage issues combined with alcohol. I know it is a lie. He would endlessly LIE to everyone to cover up his antics while we were a couple, I have no doubt he is now lying to me in the same fashion.
@NCC – Oh, it’s so very true that the people who love us will show us where we’re going wrong, if we listen to them! I’m so glad you flushed the assclown.
@Barbara – Girl, I know exactly what you mean. I took my ex back many a time and I found that, as Nat says, by just shutting up and not going back, everyone in my life KNEW I was done! I completely agree that the improved you comes through loud and clear 🙂 I’m not surprised that your ex is still an idiot – liars spend quite a bit of time not just lying to others, but to themselves. It reminds me of George Costanza from Seinfeld’s famous line, “It’s not a lie if you believe it.”
Thank you, Natalie, I was future faking myself into a vacation I can’t afford and I realize I’d better not go and pay down my bills instead. Also, I just today truly cleansed myself of a former fling who I was secretly hoping might lead to something one day but I’ve accepted never will. I have another man who is giving me tons of attention and I realize he’s the one I need to be looking toward rather than some hopeless case.
Awesome. So, so, so true and so, so, so necessary for me to read right now.
Thank you.
Your blog is wonderful!
thanks for this post Natalie. i am currently dating someone and i often wonder if i am BSing myself about him and our relationship. so this is very timely 😉
I know I lived in a fantasy with my ex, he was a great future faker (also great at blowing cold and treating me like I was an annoyance, and how dare I expect anything from him) When my suspicions of him proved, I told him I was leaving, but only half-heartedly did, or even wanted to. I took some steps to leave, I moved out, but I then became wrapped up in the fantasy that we could still make it work, that this would make our love stronger. I thought by taking the ACTION and moving out, it would prove to him that I was serious and that he had broken my boundaries and trust, and I had to do what was right for me. I thought that would show him I was worth it. But I kept playing with fire, accepting his invitations to come over, to see him, because I didn’t really want things to be over, I still wanted my fantasy to come true. What I was doing also was showing him that my word didn’t mean all that much. And he had no intention of changing to what my fantasy required. He was just going to take what he could get from me as long as I would give it. I took every short term drug he wanted to give me, and yet here I am now, on NC again just a week, when really this whole thing was over months ago, but I couldn’t resist the short term fix. I was only further humiliating myself because even though I “left” I’m the one who really can’t handle finality. I used words and some action as a means to get a reaction, I do this a lot in my life. It just proves that I was future faking myself, trying to live in that fantasy, and it’s quite clear that short term fix is no friend of my long term desires and vision of my true self in a life I can truly respect and love myself for. Now in the most painful moments of my life, I want to reach out to him. This is where my imagination tries to keep taking over, this is where if I don’t stick to NC, I’m crying wolf. I can always talk a big game to friends about how I’m so much better than him, I so don’t want him, yada yada. In the moment it can feel great to have these “pump up my awesome self” sessions, but honestly, I don’t truly feel better because I’m not being honest with myself, going back to my words not matching my actions. Before NC, my heart swelled and my anxiety vanished at the image of his number on my phone, the sound of his voice…you all know how it is. I’m in counseling now working on self esteem, self differentiation, and learning to be compassionate with myself and accept that I’m human, I am grieving this loss, I do have human needs to love and be loved, but not at the sacrifice of myself.
Aargh! This could be almost exactly MY story!
After you dump them (a good decision in itself as they will never amount to anything and actually don’t want you or are not interested anymore, ugh, so hard) you feel guilt, remorse, etc.
I had to get a piece of paper and write on it:
* He’s not interested
* If we meet up again he’s only going to be ‘a friend’ and skim all the benefits
* He’s screwing all these other people (yeuch!)
* It’s never going to work out
and other stuff (like ringing him randomly one night while I was out of town to find out that he was driving off in the night on a freeway at 9pm ‘to see a friend’, *cough*) that just reminded me of WHY this should, could and would not work…
Stop blaming yourself, nobody has to judge you about it or know because it’s personal. Give yourself a license to make mistakes – I spent so many weeks wondering ‘how I looked’, ‘was I too harsh’, ‘what will other people think of me’, ‘am I being mean’ until I realised that this was all in my head and nobody else needed to know unless I told them!
I had to tell myself this:
1. If they were that interested, this wouldn’t have happened anyway.
2. If they were that interested, the relationship (or non-relationship if it didn’t get off the ground) would have not been so *Fragile*.
These guys are like glass- they get all rigid and brittle at the thought of intimacy and commitment, such that when they crack/break/shatter you think it’s all your fault because ‘you broke it’.
I like this idea of easily-shattered glass. Earlier this evening, I had to tell a guy who’s been kinda keen over the past couple of weeks that I couldn’t pursue anything with him. I felt a little bad because he’s really lovely, and will be a great boyfriend to someone, and he’s only been generous and attentive with me. But I am still fragile (read: deflated and a little angry and guarded) from the recent bust-ups. I am not using it to my advantage, and therefore hopefully not an AC, but I can say that it’s real, that feeling of not being up to it. It’s not the other person. Well, it might be – there might be real incompatibility – but, when you’re fragile, you don’t even get to that.
Anyway, that’s a bit of a sorry note! It’s not too grim. I really hope everyone has a wonderful build up to whatever holiday they’re celebrating, even if it’s simply time with family and good friends. As ever, thanks Natalie
Elle, You did the right thing. You are fragile. You aren’t up to dating yet. That is being authentic. Def not AC behavior. I’m sure you were firm and kind. Take your time and heal.
Thank you so much for this blog, and this comment:
I had to tell myself this:
1. If they were that interested, this wouldn’t have happened anyway.
2. If they were that interested, the relationship (or non-relationship if it didn’t get off the ground) would have not been so *Fragile*.
Broken
“If they were that interested, this wouldn’t have happened anyway.”
Yes. I think one of the crucial and hardest places to get to is realising and processing the fact that these men are *not* that interested in us or we wouldn’t be having to future fake ourselves for short term fixes or for anything else.
I think although it all stems from a lack of self worth I also see myself as having been quite ‘arrogant’ in thinking that despite all the obvious signs to the contrary I would *make* him love me: He *will* love and want me whether he likes it or not! I have decided this is what is to happen and it *will* happen, even if I have to deny, rationalise and minimise the overwhelming evidence against me – even if I have to fake it for myself, I will fake it and so it *will* happen – even if it happens only in my own head where I have written the dream – all the way through to the magical ending! All I need is to get him to be who I want him to be, feel what I want him to feel and do all those relationship things that he doesn’t want to do… OR I could just recognise that this guy is not for me, stop faking that he is, get off the crazy train and get on with my own ‘real’ life instead.
I think this is a good reflection of myself, as well. Early on I remember my AC telling me that he had a wall around his heart (hello red flag 962 that I ignored), and I was like, oh heck yeah am I going to scale that wall and get in there and you *will* love me. Joke’s on me, tho. I even had to go back once and get burned. So, no more BS for me.
I came here for the exact same reason. My imagination is getting to me after 15 days of no contact. I did well the first two weeks but last night the BS began. I am struggling also but inspired by your comment. I told my mother because I didn’t want to put my friends through this once again, I felt like I was dying and needed to tell SOMEONE, and I needed the protection of not future faking her. It would be almost impossible for me to take him back after I let her see my pain once again….Now here I am regretting that I told her because the thoughts of taking him back if he calls are overwhelming. I want to crawl under a rock today!
Nette, please be strong. Do not break contact. I made that mistake and I regret it. It is not worth the pain and the set back it will cause. I find myself recovering quicker this time around, but it was not necessary for me to have to go through that process and feel like crap for two weeks to try and get my head screwed back on again. ((hugs))
I went full bore NC this time around and changed my email (deleted the old one so I can’t go back and check) and phone number. No checking spam or blocked calls or anything. Deleted the ‘app’ running in the background. (well, I still sort of think of him, but am squashing it sooner now than before).
I don’t know…it’s an interesting question, but I’m not so sure it’s that simple. I had been single for 7 years (yikes) and met a younger man this past summer who was my catnip and kryptonite. And there is something about that combintation that can really eff a person up. Even a fairly healthy person who has been walking the walk. Therapy, books, meditation, support groups, and on, and on. We need a part of what they give us so desperately we are willing to overlook what they aren’t (or, better yet, who they really are).
In the end, I know you’re right, Natalie, because so many wanted to tidy the whole thing up for me after I was dumped mercilessly by saying, but yes, wasn’t it worth it? You had the most fun, the best sex, you felt alive like you hadn’t felt in years. Wasn’t it worth it?
The answer is NO. A thousand times, NO.
I’m not really one who lives my life banking on a future, and for that, I make no apologies. But I love your point about breaking contact. I admit I’m struggling so much with that with Merry Crack Day fast approaching. But, to what end? Maybe that’s an even better way of thinking of the future. To what end? No answer? A lame answer? Waking up realizing things still are the way they are…over? So, if the future is only the moments after we make the call, send the text, send the gift, why not invest more wisely in that future?
There will be no future faking from anyone or myself while I am on the “No Dating Rule” / dating hiatus (cf. NML’s No Contact Rule) while I get off relationship crack! I used to imagine ‘oh, but if I *just* stay a bit longer, try a bit harder, but up with a bit more crap, hang around a bit more as ‘a friend’, I’ll tip the balance back in favour of me and get what I want and we’ll have a great future together.
Wipe out your online dating profiles, delete Mr Unavailables/booty calls/whatnot from your phone, tape your dialling fingers, tell all your friends that that you are on a TOTAL DATING BAN, institute a ‘no friends policy’ for ex-dates and exes, say no to everybody that even hints a bit of interest (even if you think they’re Mr Right) and do *not* arrange any dates.
I think a few more months on the No Dating Rule plus professional therapy will see the cycle finished and broken completely! I’m at the post-acceptance stage where I’m not so worried about them, I guess I’ more worried about me and fearing if the next time I get into the saddle will I screw it up?
I wiped out all my on-line dating profiles. At first the attention from those men was attractive and gave me hope that there are other men out there besides the xEUM that I was desiring. But when I would meet them in person – I would be so disappointed because there would be no chemistry or spark, and I would compare them to the x who I wanted to marry and spend my life with.
I personally need to be in more social situations because working and being home alone is not enough for me… I plan to join a new choir (mixed voices) in a few months, and been wanting to do Wed. night Country Karaoke… I am much happier NOT being on-line and wasting my time with presenting myself to on-line men….who ultimately don’t cut the mustard.
This is a very difficult Christmas season for me and I am so thankful that I will be out of town with friends this Christmas weekend. Happy Holidays All, be good to yourself & we will get through this and be better people for doing so!!!!!
“Here’s the thing: It’s a given how thoughtless, hurtful, misleading and inappropriate a Future Faker’s actions are, but after listening to so many people talk about their experiences and seeing some of them go back so many times to the same ‘burning fire’, it’s time to ask: Are you guilty of Future Faking yourself?” ~ Natalie
Are they lying to you?
The answer is YES!
In fact deception is so prevalent in everyday communication that it’s a wonder anyone can actually remember anything they said to someone else. (And, in fact, they often don’t because the part of the brain that most often generates a lie is not immediately conscious!)
Last year I read on research that showed that people lie about three times in every 10 minutes of conversation. So if you talk for an hour, that’s 18 lies. That’s a lot of deception…
Why people do this (including you and me)
Who is mostly likely to not deceive others or themselves
How to influence the person when they are deceiving (remember that’s about 18 times per hour in a conversation)
Square One
It turns out that married couples deceive each other more than single people do.
It turns out that women tend to lie about different things than men.
It turns out that women lie much more about infidelity than men do.
What is going on?
Scientists are now studying deception and they are finding out that those who deceive have a big advantage in nature.
For years I thought that lying and deception stemmed from psychological disorders.
I was wrong.
It may not be nice, or ethical or right…but it is natural behavior….!
All animals deceive. It doesn’t take a human to deceive…and it doesn’t take a bad human to deceive.
Primates strategically deceive…able to misdirect competitors in the group to another location while they eat where the food is and so can select the best mates. Not always…only when food is short in abundance.
Orchids deceive bees. (I’ll explain this bizarre fact…another day…orchids are flowers…by the way.)
It’s adaptive, natural behavior. Deception helps insure survival on the level of one and on the level of the group.
Ugh!
We all hate being lied to.
However, “Honesty” is not adaptive for reproduction.
Prevarication, Embellishment, Story-telling and Deception is what will get you laid!
And get your Genes passed on!
AF
AF, and there’s a lot to be said in psychological and social behavioural terms for not being honest all the time. Indeed, people who are only honest are regarded as at least unsophisticated and, more likely, moronic. However, what a bummer we don’t only have the emotions of animals; that we also relate and engage in other ways, including building relationships with functions other than to breed and get our genes passed on! And that we have this other part of us that wants truth, that wants to relate authentically, that wants to be reached and heard.
Elle, love the irony! I will be a moron and unsophisticated anyday before allowing bs to rule and blame it on “nature”.
AF
Yep. Deception will get you anywhere. It’s short gain VS long gain.
From an evolution point of view, men can have more sex to share their genes and a woman can only have one baby at the time – so women have to be careful who they have this baby with ( a good and decent provider) while men can go on sharing. We are reared, as a society to accept a greater level of promiscuity from men than from women. Acting out sexually by men is accepted, boys will be boys, we get branded a slut. Men are more prone to sexualise their emotions, because of biology and talking about emotions is not a male thing ( you guys are so logical on paper) and women are more prone to deny their feelings to have a relationships ( shelter – babies- food). Worse we experience sex in a different way despite the fact that intimacy is the end goal. For guys sex is language while women need to use language to get to the point where we are comfortable to have sex with you. Sex is a language we both speak yet we don’t always understand each other.
Men are capable of faking “relationships” to get their need ( otherwise unmet) met. It seems the only power women have is to say no – he Madonna / whore complex.
One of my friend who had been out of the dating loop for a while was swept of her feet by a friend of one of her colleague. After the crazy lust, she started to feel used as it was only about “him”. By a fluke meeting, she found that the friend he was helping with his house move- the excuse not to be with her on a long weekend was his girlfriend who was moving in with him. She was hurt and humiliated despite the fact she knew it was only going to be a fling and he was a bit scarred by her sexual needs ( the fling gave her licence to be wild but still he got scared by her assertiveness in bed). When confronted he said – “ yeah did not tell you because I knew you would make a song and dance about it” . It did not stop him calling and calling her for sex, having it both ways. He felt trapped at home and needed an escape from tedium. After a dry spell, 2 years of rearranging the house over and over again, watching QVC at night, she got to put on make-up and got sexual again. Not a bad thing in my view.
I think comparing ourselves to animals is of limited value.
I tell you what is upside down though – women competing for men. I don’t see that ANYWHERE else in the animal kingdom. Even my fish know better than that.
As for fibs – some of them are not a big deal:
How are you? I’m fine (even if I’m not).
No, that dress doesn’t make you look fat
Wow, this meal is terrific.
A big deal:
I’ll call you (but I won’t)
My wife and I don’t have sex (except last night)
He’s just a friend (that I snogged the other day).
Sure, you can’t say every stupid thought that goes through your head (well, I do), but that’s a long way from deception. And just because “everyone does it”, it doesn’t make it all right! Strive for better.
And she is immunised against the “ swept off your feet” feeling for a while. You can’t see the red flags when you are delirious.
I seriously question the validity of the research that you read. In fact, I question and doubt almost everything that you wrote as an accurate reflection of men and women. Perhaps you have bought into those ideas but I believe they are false for many. You/we are accountable for your/our actions as (a) thinking responsible human(s). You do not run on instinct. Own your action and beliefs and live with the results. Nature is not responsible. If you choose to deceive then you reap the results.
Leisha,
I believe we are totally accountable for our actions. But we also ignore our nature at our peril. Like my partner says : I am not your girlfriend so do not treat me like one.
Leisha,
I was brought up in a repressive environment where men and women have set identity and do not deviate, men are men and women get blame for anything that goes wrong. If you get raped it’s your fault not the guy, and if you wore a revealing dress, you asked for it.
I am not excusing my boyfriend if he cheats on me on nature or his hormones. It takes 2 to tango, nature and up-bringing plays a part. If a man has been taught that women are good for a few things – sex and dinner, that will play a part on his view of women especially if he has learned to hate women because of ignorance. At the same time if my mother has taught me that men are good for nothing jerks that will cheat me with any woman that smiles at me, that will I think, cloud my judgement and wreck my view of men, especially if my dad did nothing to change my mother’s view . I will go on messing my relationship, never understanding my part in their destruction.
We are prisoners in a way of our hormones and our sex drive, it’s not called a drive for nothing. Men and women are different, yin and yang. Growing up and be a fully fledged human is to delay gratification and see the long term rather than the instant and deal with our fears.
I really like Stephen Carter, Julia Sokol, Dr. John Gottman, and Harville Hendrix.
Best wishes
Artemisia, Hi, I am not familiar with all of the people you listed. I will probably take a look at them; thanks. The nature/nurture thing is alive and well although many recognise it is a blend.But I take exception to what I view as faulty research and conclusions derived from biased/skewed/questionable studies. Culture and rearing play a huge part in us but with education and self-knowledge many things can and frequently DO change. We also do have control over our behavior despite having strong drives. I have been fascinated with sociology and the differences between many things for most of my life. I questioned things at a young age and was fortunate to have a mother who encouraged it for the most part. I also came up in the 60’s and 70’s where viewpoints were changing radically here in the USA. I still see old ideas based on sex not ability and it still irks me. Wholesale generalisations designed to excuse poor behavior is not something I find acceptable. I believe in thinking and common sense as well as questioning what “everyone” knows. My brother was in Pakistan and his wife stayed in a compound. Women who were raped were accused of being responsible for it. Yound women are circumcised and frequently die from infection and suffer pain for their culture’s beliefs. Slavery was accepted as proper and Godly. Women were property as were children of their husbands and fathers. Some people don’t like things to change in any way that gives others freedom. Some people like to blame others for their bad behaviors and call it natural.Yes, I am familiar with sexism and racism and ageism and many other things. Much of it is about power/resources; who gets it and how it’s shared. Know Thyself is key for me along with Do little harm. I don’t know your story, but you seem to have managed to become a woman who is not repressed in the way your society would have preferred you (if I read your comment correctly). My comment was addressed to AF BTW…So, if I upset you inadvertently I apologise.
Artemisia, What does your partner mean by that? It sounds like it’s meant as an insult. Oh yea, and here in the Good ole USA women are still being blamed for rape because they dress or act in provocative ways…total BS but alive and kicking. Best wishes to you as well.
Leisha,
Sorry I got confused with the reply section and thought I had offended you.
Lord I wrote too fast at work and should fire my editor.
Everybody lies says Dr House but he is a misanthropic pill popping EU, prone to manipulation so… Yes many excuse their bad behaviour on their nature even when challenged.
This is how they explain their power trip to themselves sometimes, until they learn their culture and nurture may have played a part in it.
Being unrepressed took therapy, kissing many frogs waiting for them to change me and having to change myself instead.
My partner is not insulting me, he reminds me sometimes that he is a man – so less capable to match women’s vocabulary in interpersonal relationships – and I am not respecting that.
Man #1 we are meeting at 7 pm , Jack is coming.
Man#2 ok then, see you then.
Woman#1 we are meeting at 7pm, Jackie is coming.
Woman#2 ok, ” what are you wearing” ( long thing of outfit, color, maybe reference of weight, fat arms, spandex – fill the gap) “Jackie is coming really I never thought she would” ( long thing about whatever she is going in her life)
Your man at the back, (English accent ): for heaven sake, does it take an hour to know what time you are meeting her? You will have a chance to talk to her then!
Me : yeah I know ( we like to know what is going on beforehand), we were just talking. Do I bother you for talking football with your mates ? ( yeah I do sorry)
I like to point that to him that, when women talk about our problems to men – we want to be listened and heard – not offered a solution within a minute ( because you want to help us) and told off when we do not apply it.
My favorites:
Me: I am not your mother !
Man: then don’t act like her.
Me: blah, tangent, blah, tangent, blah, tangent, are you listening?
Man: sorry, what are you telling me again? There was a point way back…
Not all male species are out spreading sperm where ever they can. Eagles and ravens mate for life. Fact. They only move on to another mate when their current mate dies. Some female species kill a newborn that is weak in order to give the other young in the litter a better chance, while some male species kill the young of another male in order to bring the female into heat. Nature is complicated and there are similarities among species but I’m not about to accept being lied to because primates do it in order to survive. It may be natural to some, but white lies are not the same as selfish deception. Just like sampling one grape at the grocery store before you buy them is not the same as mugging someone. The ex used to tell me monogamy wasn’t natural and used to give me example of animals that have multiple mates. He brushed aside my example of eagles and ravens because those animals didn’t justify his ideas or lies. Deception is all around us but we have intelligence and choice as well. Orchids don’t have free will or feelings, so they’re ability to deceive bees is built in without choice. The word orchid stems from a latin word that means testicles……by the way. They don’t have free will either, but the brain that directs them does.
Spot-on jennynic
AF,
Signing up to constantly deceive will get you anywhere…anywhere apart from the search for self..
Every time we set out to seriously lie to someone we move a little further away from our authentic selves.
In creating the illusions you speak of,we are in fact deluding ourselves?
I disagree that habitual liars have it made, in general they are just storing up trouble to come,peace of mind is worth more.
Ange, I felt I needed to respond as you’ve taken ‘honesty’ into some other weird territory. I get your point although I note you don’t mention that we should lick our own genitals, eat our own faeces, or kill or abuse one another as Jennynic, Lynda, Leisha et al have pointed out. It’s one of those weak arguments like when this guy on Facebook tells BR readers that their abuse is manifestations of their own mind brought upon themselves and that it’s only abuse if they see it as such. The moment I mention rape, killers, paedo’s etc…tumbleweeds.
You’re talking like one of those people who thinks that because banks or corporations have money, that it’s ok to steal and that they expect it.
I’m not writing about how to get laid and ‘tricks’ that will manipulate people to hopefully do as you want. There’s plenty of playa sites out there – BR is about healthy relationships for people who recognise that unhealthy relationships and talking out of their batty’s doesn’t work for them. You’ll note that many people who lie to themselves and others can’t hack being lied to themselves…
In the spirit of honesty, I’m very wary of people who boast about the usefulness of being deceptive, in much the same way I feel uncomfortable around those who say that age ain’t nothin but a number especially when they’re sleeping with underage people or even children, that they ‘get’ slavery, trafficking of women and children, or making people work for 10p an hour to make their clothes, or that sometimes a woman deserves to be abused or raped.
There are sites for people that hate blacks or people of mixed race, sites for those that like watching snuff movies, sites for hooking up with married people, or for looking at inappropriate images of children. Basically there’s a site to suit every opinion and taste, even illegal and downright unpleasant ones. Sadly.
There are things that I’ve grown up with that are inappropriate – I don’t replicate the shit behaviour and values to my children and justify it as ‘nature’. I and many others here have worked hard and continue to work hard to break away from unhealthy patterns of behaviour that were taught to us as ‘normal’ by people who lacked self-control, morals etc. If the best thing that you have to contribute in this atmosphere is justifications for deceiving people, you’ve taken a wrong turn and should be at some playa site, not at Baggage Reclaim.
Hi Nat,
I used to be that girl a long time ago. It was NC after my last relationship that helped me stay true to myself, keep me away from a toxic person and allow me to mend and resolve a tonne of my own issues.
NC really works, its hard and feels like your doing the opposite to what you want or what your heart wants but the payoff is escape from something really unhealthy freeing you up to put yourself 1st and allowing yourself to heal and work out issues.
And I figure what my heart wants hasnt gotten me anywhere before, time to use some intellect.
Never go back to or rely on the source of your hurt and pain.
Trin
XXXX
I swear that the only person who can future fake themselves more than me was that ex epiphany…since I started reading this blog it has helped so much to have terms for the things that I have encountered and it is nice to know that I am not the only dreamer out there! I am looking forward to a third date with a guy who seems really interesting and smart and decent and of course already I am either imagining what a jerk he is going to end up being or what a romeo….I really need to just not look ahead! Thanks for the timely post ….it is so hard to stay with the present:)!
It’s funny – today my friend asked me what I would do if the EU/MM called me and told me he wanted to be with me and that he was leaving his wife. Despite the way he treated me and ended things, I admit that I gave some serious thought to entertaining the idea of being with him again. I do miss him, but then, I remember: he lied to me, he future-faked with me, he twisted things, and in the end, he was rather mean to me. Plus, it would sure be messy with his wife and kids. (I see him at church every week and do my best to avoid him, although I ran into him yesterday and was forced to say hello and answer a question he asked). The problem is that I’m feeling lonely and, not being yet divorced, somewhat undesirable at the moment. But I’m trying to stay positive. Thanks for writing this. I needed it.
What a Great post today…I needed this one!
Nat,Mom asked me what I wanted for Christmas…..Your Books are on the way…I have found it hard this year to get in the spirit,But I am excited to read your books and start a new year!!!
Brenda
Hi Natalie,
When I read your previous article on Future-Faking, I clearly realized I had been totally FF’d. Back then, I knew it wasn’t just all him, I had to be participating in the faking in order for it to work. This post really helps me to see that I not only particpated in my own FF’ing but I contributed as well on many different levels. I kept returning to the scene of the crime, circumventing reality while complaining bitterly by future faking myself that it would eventually be different someday…betting on potential in order to get my short term fix. My therapist repeatedly cautioned me about my focus on the future (which worked for me in academia) while my present slipped away. I used those exact same words “I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it” when my best girlfriend cautioned me about getting involved with a MM. That allowed me my uninterrupted fantasy until I could no longer fake it to myself. It is so absolutely true, it’s bad enough he BS’ed me but I BS’ed myself and I came to the bridge. I clearly lacked integrity and honesty with myself which is why I could not smell, see, nor hear no evil. Yup, I am accountable and responsible for my lack of integrity with myself. My self-deception finally wore me down. How did I expect to have a future with a person so unlikely to offer a future together? I know the answer now. I’m not angry any more. Just grateful for the self-awareness. Thank you Natalie. From my kitchen to yours a holiday recipe: 1/8 of tsp of of self-esteem, a 1/4 of a tsp of self-respect, 1/2 tsp of self-love, 1/2 cup of self-forgiveness, and one cup of white chocolate chips. Bake for 30 to 90 days and cool for another 90 days. It’ll be spring/summer and you’ll be done!
“This post really helps me to see that I not only particpated in my own FF’ing but I contributed as well on many different levels.” –runnergirl
That about sums it up.
Upon reading this latest Natalie post, I see that I future faked with the on-off again man from high school (The Snake). On our last go-round, I guess that I subconsciously or unconsciously figured “Any day now, he’ll leave the girlfriend. He’s been with her for 10 years and they’re not married, so obviously something’s wrong. We’ve gone through ‘SO MUCH’ over the years on this merry-go-round, so there MUST be some reward at the end. The end is coming soon, right? Oh well… I’ll cross that bridge when I get to it.” This didn’t even cross my mind until I read this. Wow.
But it’s true. Deep down, I guess that I DID think he’d leave her & we’d live happily ever after. He left her alright – after 11 years (I actually feel sorry for her because she was faithful to him the whole time) – and met a new woman at a New Year’s Eve party that we attended TOGETHER. Hey, we were both single & talking to different people so neither of us could hold the other accountable… right? All I asked was that he be upfront & honest with me, no matter who (or what) he was doing. Of course he agreed. Come on – do whatever you want as long as you’re honest? A dicksplash’s wildest dream come true!
… until I found out that they weren’t just friends with benefits like he claimed. She was his new girlfriend. I cut him off immediately. (Thank goodness that we NEVER had sex.)
Almost 4 years of no contact – anyone who knows me well, knows that when I cut a person off, it’s for life & no turning back – and I’m so glad that The Snake isn’t slithering around me anymore or ever again (I won’t allow it). But wow… this post made me see that I had even more of a part to play in that madness than I thought. Yikes. 😐 Never again.
Thank goodness for youth, foresight, & wisdom. And thank you for making yet another lightbulb go off in my mind.
spinster
lucky escape. i’d be pissed if my boyfriend called me his FWB behind my back.
grace: We weren’t even together. 😐 I don’t know WTF to call that merry-go-round that we were on for years. Madness? Yeah, madness. But since I faked – acting like I didn’t care since after all, he was single and so was I – I didn’t think that it’d bother me. But I found out, went ballistic, called & told him to never contact me again. (He did and I ignored him.) That was one of the best decisions I’ve made in my life.
It’s enlightening, and kinda nice, to realize that I future faked too. I’ll make sure to never do that again. 😉
I definitely have been future-faked and have also done it to myself it’s like all my relationships have been based on the promise of a fake future. I have always been one to dream up a wonderful fantasy (in my mind) and then go out in search of someone so that the ending can happen.
This is a very wonky way to have relationships, and my past proves it! ?I have a huge pile of nasty relationships to show for it. I was so in love with the imaginary ending that I wouldn’t react appropriately to the grossly inappropriate behaviour that I was experiencing at the time. I fixated on the wonderful ending and got burned because I was not looking. It isn’t that I can’t tell if someone is lying or being a bastard, it’s just that I am looking at a wonderful ending and not wanting to let that go. I explains why I stuck around really nasty inappropriate fiends and couldn’t let go because I had future faked my self to a beautiful magical ending.
Now; woe unto me!… if the guy is a future faker, and he hints that my imaginary ending might happen, he gets Carte Blanche to do his thing in my life while I cling to the dream (which I now feel is definitely assured because he said so. We are soul mates!). I might nag a little, cry, throw a few tantrums when it gets bad and painful but I stick around just in case the fairytale happens, ad nauseum
I don’t think you wrote this in response to my last post, but after my last burst of “this time I’m finally going to write my novel/book of short stories!” I read this post with something like shame. I am so sick of promising myself things and not following through. It’s like I got used to disappointing myself in reality, and so I got in the habit of dwelling in fantasies. One day I’ll do x; one day I swear I’m going to do y.
I was out Xmas shopping today and felt my usual sense of being hemmed in by my finances and it dawned on me that I have always told myself that “one day” I’d be able to afford the things I want. It’s now becoming obvious that “one day” will never come if I don’t decide which things I want and start working toward getting them. I believe a big part of the attraction of the exAC was that he provided a lot of what I had been promising myself (materially) – what I felt I deserved – but he could deliver them right now, not in some future that involves the long shot of writing a best seller, or getting the rights optioned on a book I wrote.
There is a lot of pain and embarrassment in feeling that I want things now; in looking squarely at how many times I’ve promised myself I will do something and fail to do it.
I want out of this shame spiral, though. Okay, I said I wanted to do something and I just want to take it back because I don’t want you ladies (and me) to see that I’m full of BS! I don’t want to face you all a year from now when I haven’t done it.
I want this time to be different, and I guess I won’t be sure it has been different until the thing is accomplished. Fortunately part of the change of this past year has been about setting small promises to myself and keeping them, and about working through what it feels like to want something and figuring out how much responsibility I’ll take to get it.
I don’t mean to be super hard on myself; but I do want to be real. It’s not about facing you, or anyone else; it’s about facing myself. All I want for Christmas is ten years of self-trust under my belt!
Magnolia, I read your speaking of writing books as a potential goal and not something that has a timetable on it…you have an idea or ideas and you may pursue them. Lady, you are completing a PhD, you are doing intense self-work, you are looking for further advances in your field and applying for them…give yourself a break already!
Hi Magnolia,
I fully agree with Leisha. Slow down girl. I’m not sure Natalie’s post on future-faking directly applies to your desire to write a novel/short stories. That seems more like a long term goal to me. You may do it or not but there is certainly no loss of credibility because you haven’t done it by next year or within 20 years. Goodness, aren’t you defending your thesis in July? One step at a time. You said it yourself: “Fortunately part of the change of this past year has been about setting small promises to myself and keeping them..” Thus, you haven’t been future-faking as I read Natalie’s post. I’ve read Natalie’s responses to you about being too hard on yourself. She’s said that to you as many times as she said to me “Runner, you’re in danger girl”! Based on your posts on this blog, it sounds like you have made tremendous progress this year and you have been an inspiration for many BR readers, including me. Be Proud. Celebrate your many, many accomplishments. Quiet that inner voice.
Also, be careful with the Christmas Shopping Crack. It’s almost impossible not to take a hit when this month is all about spending money. I’ve finally adjusted to not being able to afford everything I think I want. I want limestone tile, granite counter tops, remodeled updated bathrooms, a pool, a jacuzzi, an outdoor fireplace, and a built in bbq. It’d be nice if the TV worked too. Most of all, I want my daughter to have an education. So, I’m baking cookies for xmas presents and knitting scarfs for my nieces.
You are taking the steps to achieve your priority, your PhD and your mental/emotional health. That’s not future-faking. I’m taking the steps to achieve my priority, my daughter’s education and my mental/emotional health. I’m not future-faking.
Mags, I wanted to say before I nod off – this definitely isn’t about you. I had to go back and read your comment.
I have noticed with you that you feel uncomfortable being on a ‘good run’ and so for every two steps of progress you take, you then take another back. This is fine and natural but pay attention to you because you’re undermining yourself by actively seeking to pull yourself down after you pull yourself up. I post three times a week and your cycle shifts each week – allow yourself to feel good and stop being so hard on yourself. You have very unrealistic expectations of yourself and are on one hell of a rollercoaster. Don’t Fast Forward – it’s been a hot minute since you mentioned the book. What are you? On writing acid? Slow your roll. There was no timeline on it. It’s a future goal not an urgent job. Relax!
Mags, As someone who is now a year out of finishing a PhD, please take what everyone is saying to heart: The more anxieties you stir up, especially about who you are and what you have not achieved, while you’re in thesis mode, the longer your recovery will be. Your mind is already being overloaded. It’s doing its best to get you through. It needs exercise, gentleness and rest, not constant reminders that it is not doing enough, or being enough, or getting there quick enough. Focus on your thesis and getting to that finishing line in reasonable mental and physical health. Once the thesis is done, you’ll have a whole part of your life opened up and the energy with which you will be able to meet it will be a function of how you look after yourself now. (I had to spend 6 months at rehab for broke people: at my parents’ place! Mostly resting and only half-heartedly working and certainly not charging towards new horizons. Now I am pursuing all sorts of amazingness.) There is time.
Hi Ladies: I am feeling a little fried lately. Feeling not-in-control. The book project I mention has never had a timeline on it, and so never gets done, which is part of why I want to scream thinking about it. It has always been part of my “I’ll do that someday” story. My “but what I really want to do is direct” kind of thing. Anyway.
Thanks for the kindhearted give-your-head-a-shake-girl! messages. Learning to focus on what is on MY plate, and not look at other plates and imaginary plates, is what I keep returning to BR to remember.
I’m at my family’s place in Ontario now, until the new year. I am going to enjoy my brief time away from the hypercompetitive environment of grad school, even if I do use the time to clean out my inboxes and read ahead for next term’s teaching.
My family is abuzz with preparation for my sister’s wedding, which will happen next month. I happen to be in the room fairly often while she skypes with her fiance; makes me wish there were a companion site to BR where a bunch of women would come and post about how real their happiness is in their relationships, and how great their guys are. I have become aware of how tuned to I am to the potential for failure; if I’m not careful, it will affect my ability to be genuinely enthusiastic, for her or myself.
My sis’s fiance really does seem like a great guy, and seems like he loves her. My sis has been through her share of ACs and EUs. It’s good to see someone leave those experiences behind. Though I have to say, for my sis, even though she had many moments of “why me?”, she never let it affect her sense of self-worth. And now she’s with someone who she calls “fabulous.”
It hits pretty close to home to watch my sis get married. In a good way. If she can do it, and she didn’t settle, so can I.
I think I was with the king of future fakers. For a year, I clung to the little shreds of fantasy that he would throw my way and believed every word, like some obsessed schoolgirl. I was a doormat. He could do anything and I would still want to be with him. He fed me so many false promises, and the worst part was when I realised they were never going to materialise, I would make excuses for him and even blame myself. The last straw came last week, when after telling me for the past 2 months he was coming to spend time with me over xmas (he was supposed to arrive today) he suddenly starts to ignore my calls and texts. This, for me, was my ‘epiphany’ moment. This was when I said to myself enough is enough. This is as far as it goes I literally cannot take anymore crap. So I am now on day 4 of NC and I vow to see it through. I do keep having moments where I think ‘oh but what if his phone was broken and he didnt see all my missed calls/texts blah blah blah…..’ but then I think if the man wanted me, if he was really and truly into me like he made out he was, he would of moved heaven and earth to contact me and be here with me today. I just have to keep reminding myself of that when I feel like making contact.
For me, he has ruined my xmas this year. I am literally at rock bottom and I know the people around me can sense there is something wrong. I am too embaressed to confide in my friends that he has yet again let me down. Especially after saying about how he was coming to visit me with the ‘amazing gift’ he had apparently bought for me. Lastnight, I wrote a list of all his bad points and good. There was a whole page of bad points and only a couple of good points. This speaks for itself and makes any normal person wonder what the heck I saw in him. Im not too sure myself but I know that trying to distance myself from him and fall out of love with him is like coming off a drug. The thing that hurts the most is that I just cant understand how someone can be so into you one minute and just disappear the next, literally overnight. I guess I will never find out, unless I keep asking him. But why should I?
Jodie, given that you’ve written a list for this guy – with pages of bad points and only a couple of good points – I really wouldn’t spend too much time trying to figure out why he’s disappeared. It sounds like he’s done you a favour – even if it may not feel like it right now. The only question you could ask yourself is why you were willing to settle for so little and turn a blind eye to so much. Your comment about being afraid to tell your friends makes me feel like you’ve some shame about this guy’s behaviour. Please don’t own someone else’s shoddy behaviour.
I sometimes think this whole dating thing is like a game of snakes and ladders. When you think number 100 is within your sight – you suddenly land on the snake at number 99 and fall all the way back to number 2. For me, it’s been the thought of going back to number 2 that has kept me in some dodgy relationships with losers in the past.
I was in the very same position as you last Xmas (and my birthday is at Xmas also). So, I know how you feel. I wrote off Xmas last year, implemented NC, took myself off on holiday for my birthday and started working on trying to understand why I was willing to settle for so little. It’s the best thing I ever did and (now) I wouldn’t change that time for the world.
Best of luck.
Best of luck to you.
That’s classic, the snakes and ladders analogy. Unlike the game, I think it takes the experience of (and truly getting over) one big ass 99, who takes us right down to two, for us to not to have that again. If I hit another 99 now (and I’ve recently hit a 70!) I certainly would not get taken back to 2.
Jodie – it’s a hideous process, but it gets easier, especially if you concern yourself solely with making things nice and pleasant for you – make yourself a personal health retreat – and DO NOT entertain questions about why he did it, and certainly do not follow any of this up in real life. He acted like a selfish turd because it’s in his nature, he wanted to and because he could.
I sometimes think this whole dating thing is like a game of snakes and ladders. When you think number 100 is within your sight – you suddenly land on the snake at number 99 and fall all the way back to number 2.
OMG. I Love this comparrison. ….I think 6 years ago I fell down the ladder, then I took 5 years completely off from dating. I came upon a whole AC-package of a man/snake…. settled for him, and was too afraid to climb the ladder again. Also, I’m getting older and …….. When I was young and full of admireres and chances for love I could kick an EUM/AC to the curb in seconds.
“It’s also important to recognise that bullshit begets bullshit, so if you lack honesty and integrity with yourself, you won’t be able to smell what’s wrong with a person or situation, because it will be clouded out by the smell of your own bullshit.”
Amen, amen. What I love about this site is the fearless way you deal with what is really the problem. I could have told you nine ways to Sunday what the AC did in his future faking, but the truth is, I was right there with him. I was so caught up in my own fantasy of what was happening, I couldn’t see he was totally full of it. I spent so much time analysing and “spin doctoring” the relationship because without all the projection and drama, I might have had to face the fact that there was no relationship to begin with. What he did was manipulative and cruel. What I did was naive and foolish. No one gets to claim the moral high ground here.
For me, the future with him, was not to be fake.
When I looked at him, I loved him. I bent my life around being with him, checking his opinion on the minutiae, the actual cast of his eye while he problem solved or laughed is still with me.. I did not crowd, nor did I neglect. I tried(and failed) to stay me throughout.
I believed him when he referred to his ex wife as the first Mrs….., and me as the second Mrs….when he planned for me to move in. I looked for jobs in his city. I referred of him to family and friends as’ How did I get this so late’, ‘How lucky am I.’ It did not feel fake. I did this in response to his urging and promises. To his words, to his words….
Although I did not mishear or misinterpret the meaning.
I misinterpreted the man.
BR has helped change me, not only in how I esteem me but in how I evaluate others. I have to believe that even for the moment, indeed a series of moments he saw himself in that future with me. He got caught up in it. I still think his verbal abuse is awful, I hate the urge to hedonism which he presented and of course I hate the future fakery.
However If I am being real about this relationship and my own future happiness, I have to admit he was a good dad,hardworking,funny, kind to me and sensitive. There was a spark.
Onto this spark(this is the sad bit) I soldered values of commitment,trust,care,future planning,joint decision making, co-piloting.
Onto this spark he soldered good times,listening ear,regular sex, a companion for interests,someone on his arm,bit of culture.
This did not fan a mutual flame. I am proud that I eventually held out for what I wanted. After three days a week for seventeenth months, I wanted recognized commitment, to everyone , everywhere. I just wanted to know what was going on…
I did not get this. I got proverbial humms, status quo negotiating, fading,hot, cold.. This at least was not fake. His behaviour was and is staring me in the face.
Future Faking is such a comfort zone at first. It’s the first pillow that we can both rest upon. A big bouncy bubble, essentially of hot air.. to burst it takes courage, caring for yourself more than a fantasy, believing in your ‘own’ future and the knowledge that bursting will absolutely end the relationship…and a signpost back to self.
Lynda,
Future Faking is such a comfort zone at first. It’s the first pillow that we can both rest upon. A big bouncy bubble, essentially of hot air.. to burst it takes courage, caring for yourself more than a fantasy, believing in your ‘own’ future and the knowledge that bursting will absolutely end the relationship…and a signpost back to self.
So well put. “It’s the first pillow….”I tell you I can remember the first time he said to me what i wanted to hear, and it did feel like a big comfy pillow to rest all of my fears and doubts on. It was wonderful, it was the first time in maybe my whole life I felt a sense of security. But why do I also know that I didn’t really believe it? Was he saying it too soon, was it because I knew I was ignoring red flags, I knew from day 1 he was shady?
I also feel that I too went into this relationship trying to be my authentic self (but was I? I feel like normal to me IS trying to make fancy out of garbage.) But it quickly changed. When I felt those icky butterflies over what I thought was inappropriate behavior, I tried to rationalize and minimize, telling myself I don’t really know him all that well yet, maybe this isn’t weird, maybe it’s just me. I can’t be too clingy. What’s weird too is, as much of a habitual liar this man is, he told me ugly truths too, that came out harsh and cruel, like he was “warning” me and if I wanted to put up with it, it would be my fault in the end if I got hurt. But then he lied to cover up his infidelity, his financial problems, his mangled relationship with his ex wife…talk about a mindf*#k. The lies seemed to cover the shame he has about himself. The nasty truths, he didn’t care if those hurt me, he was able to be honest about that because his arrogance told him hey, this is just who you are. He literally told me at different times, “I have never met anyone I’ve wanted to marry again since my ex wife. This is the longest relationship i’ve had since my divorce. You are different, you are special.” Then other times, “I can date any girl I want to, I don’t have problems getting women, it’s just that I don’t want to be dating anyone but you.” “I never learned how to treat a woman right…” On a trip, someone once asked, “are you guys married.” His reply was a sarcastic humiliating “NO way!” while looking at me in disgust. Guess he thought it was funny. I didn’t.
Thanks for comment NCC, stick to your guns…you’re well out of it.
Don’t beat yourself up too much… I’m trying not to. Here’s to an actual future!
beautiful blog post….thank you =)
This is the 15th day with no contact. It is not getting better, actually worse. The depression was unbearable for the first week but I knew that I could not take him back. There has been another woman in my estimation for atleast 2 years so the future faking was over. Now, although I am not crying daily I see myself headed for failure. He called 4 days after I kicked him out but I didn’t answer. Now, I am wondering how could he just let go when I am hurting, wondering how well they are doing over there, I started “researching” him online last night and this morning fantasizing about the apology he will give now that he knows that I am not taking it anymore. He is surprised that I have not attempted to contact him (first time with no contact for 2 weeks) and he will realize that I am not a doormat anymore. He will change!
I was so overwhelmed with those thoughts this morning I knew that I needed help so I came here for inspiration. The article and responses are helping me stay strong. Yes, the pain is unbearable but the alternative is not better.The truth is when could not take it, he left, when I was a doormat, he still left. When I could not take the crap and he left it was MY fault, when I was a doormat and he left it was his fault for being embarrassed that he could not pay his own way, help me out blah blah. He won’t change, he won’t commit to me, I won’t be surprised if he ends up marrying her. Any discussion of marriage somehow led to an argument or him leaving for a few days. I listened to the fact that he needed to get his life together before we could make plans for 4 years. The only difference now is that he has been working for 3 months, of course I helped him get that job! Nothing else has changed so what can I really expect?
Unlike others I do not have the wish of a meaningful relationship. Maybe it is too early for me to see a bright side.
Nette
Let me be the one to break it to you. 15 days is not long. You don’t erase four years in two weeks.
Everything else you say is pretty much what we have all gone through, are going through or will go through. Take comfort from the fact that you are far from the only one to go through this.
I say six months for a marked improvement. If there isn’t one, then it’s time to take remedial action. Such action not to involve getting back together with him in any way, shape or form.
Don’t research him online either.
Nette,
Ditto what grace said…
It’s been about 3 weeks for me. It’s a whopping b#tch, let me tell you but the sadness/disappointment/whatever that I feel right now is better than the pain I was feeling when talking to the MM. The pain I was feeling of wanting a relationship with a taken man. I’ve known him for four years. I know if I buckle now and hit him up, I’m pretty much making myself look a fool. I’m saying to him “step all over me some more so I can muddle around here again to try but fail to get you to be with me.” Believe me, I tried every which way, written and spoken, that I could think of, to get him to “see”. I’m actually glad I get this sick feeling in my stomach when I think about sending him an email or something. But I can’t get him to see anymore than we can get you to see. Hang on, girl.
coloro
“Believe me, I tried every which way, written and spoken, that I could think of, to get him to “see”.”
Here’s the thing: He does see! He sees perfectly well. It is us who fail to see.
And he doesn’t bother trying to explain it to us fifty million different ways – he imagines we should be smart enough to take his very obvious hints, i.e. that he. is. not. there.
These men are not daft, coloro – usually quite the reverse. They don’t need you (or me or anyone) to enlighten them. What is needed is for us to enlighten ourselves – and when we do we won’t waste our time anymore with men who do not want to be with us (while we keep trying to explain to them that they do and all what else they are doing “wrong” – they don’t give a crap!)
ouch, ok, Fearless I hear you. He doesn’t want to be with me. I get it. I remind myself of that daily. Bet on it.
sometimes the tough love stuff is just that, freakin tough! Tough to hear, tough to say, and even tougher to want to believe. Some of us work better with it than others, but i do think that for real change vs. us just wallowing in this endless sorrow forever and remaining in denial, it is necessary. We are all in the same boat but in different stages of this process as well. Be gentle with yourself, but keeping it real is kinda where we have to end up, if we really hope to change. I hate hearing that my EUM/AC doesn’t give a s*%t about what I need, nor does he care to hear me over and over and over and over tell him why he hurt me, but i’ve gotta understand that. I finally realized that, he’s gone down the path of least resistance, aka a new woman who doesn’t yet know his AC ways, and that doesn’t include me anymore because he does know that he won’t make me happy, and he cares more about himself than me. Ok, fine buddy. We can take the path of least resistance as well, in a positive way, meaning the path that doesn’t include us wasting our time with his resistance to “get” us, to finally see the error of his ways and be prince charming. Won’t happen. If we have to convince someone to treat us well, ick, no thanks.
Such a wonderful, timely post. And I can’t begin to tell you all what an encouragement it is to read the insights from all you seasoned BR readers. I am so tempted to allow my distorted way of thinking take me down a path that’s going to end in misery—thankfully there are so many of you waving caution flags as if to say, “turn the hell around” and “this is going to end badly for you.”
My ex and I were engaged at one point, and before everything started heading south this summer, we had planned to be married by this time. It’s hard letting go of him and the future we had planned together. Neither of us were ‘faking’ that future at the time, but that’s what I’m tempted to do NOW with all the “what ifs” and “if onlys”. I think it’s especially hard because this failed engagement immediately followed my failed marriage. It’s tempting to simply feel like a failure. Why couldn’t I get these guys to make good on their promises? I know they meant to be with me for the rest of their lives. At the time, I know they meant every word. My ex-husband literally abandoned me at an airport in Northern Ireland because he couldn’t *handle* my depression anymore. We had only been married for a few months, but I had become extremely depressed moving to a different country where I didn’t know anybody and wasn’t allowed to work because of VISA issues. Looking back, I can muster up enough courage to tell myself that I wasn’t a failure. I was young, immature, and scared. And my husband was too.
I think the divorce was a huge reason for me to try to make this last relationship work. I didn’t want to feel like an even bigger failure. I didn’t want to feel like there is something intrinsically wrong with me to make people break their promises to me. So…here I’ve been for the past few days thinking, I’ll give it a month. I’ll call him. We’ll meet up for lunch. We’ll have a great time together—no pressure. He’ll realize that he misses me; that I am the One after all, and then we’ll get back together, get married, and live happily ever after. IN MY MIND. It’s been so hard, but I keep telling myself: even if everything worked out in this nice little fantasy world of mine, would I really feel secure in this relationship? If I have to use stratagems to *convince* someone that I’m worth pursuing, is it really worth it? It’s pretty degrading, honestly. And manipulative. Because even though…
This totally describes my relationship with my ex-bf. I fell for his BS sooo many times. I believed he’d buy me a ring, a nice apartment, we’d live happily ever after….blah, blah, bullshit!! When I called him on his bad behavior, he tried to turn it around on me, yet again…that’s when I finally realized I truly had had enough of looking like a fool.
I am now with a man who is real and doesn’t dangle a carrot in front of my nose to get me to do things HE wants me to do.
Nathalie,
Thank you for your brilliant website and oh-soooo-sobering advice – you have helped me to untangle my silliness better than any therapist ever could… and for free! You have a gift and we are blessed that you choose to share it with us. I’ve passed your site along to all my friends in Canada and abroad – your wisdom is literally healing women across the globe. Beat that.
I hope your holidays are full to the brim with the wisdom and the peace that you so freely give to others.
Cheers from Montreal,
Marianne (no contact for two amazing months)
I suppose I could describe myself as a future faker as well because I allowed my self to be future faked! I lapped up the attention, compliments and fantasied what a life with him would be like. However I saw through the lies/false promises pretty quickly as his actions were not matching his words. When I questioned “where this was going” he disappeared as quickly and quietly as he could. I then thought (but didn’t do it) of every trick in the book to win him back, I wanted him to want me again (validation)
Nette – Believe me when I say I know what you are going through! I literally could not get out of bed to go to work because I felt heartbroken, alone, depressed and just rubbish! I couldn’t believe that the person I was seeing could just drop me without ANY word or explanation. One day I was the centre of his universe and the next he just stopped calling/texting and didn’t answer any of my calls. I was baffled, hurt, confused and my self esteem was on the floor! I told everyone who would listen the story of our romance over and over again. You must believe that you will start to feel better, as time goes by and things become more apparent you’ll see that its better to continue NC and get on with your life. Sounds easier said then done? If I can do it anyone can because I allowed someone to make me hit rock bottom and I have picked myself up and said “enough”! I’m taking time out from dating (and definitely won’t be doing on-line dating again) and getting back to my old self and starting to feel good again. Technically I didn’t have to do NC because he done it to me! Just come here everyday and read the various posts and stories and you’ll see that we are more or less all in the same boat, so your not on your own. 🙂
Stephanie,
Thanks soooooo much!
Stephanie,
Isn’t this online dating thing funny? It’s a new phenomenon and I wonder my gosh there are other ways to meet men (or women if they’re your preference). I mean look at the thousands of years behind us of people who have managed to get together one way or the other. I’m not sure why online dating is pushed to be one of the “best” or “only” ways to meet someone.
Colororange
I totally agree, I actually tried it for the first time a few months ago. It was a site that’s considered a bit more upmarket that matches you on compatibility and so on. After only being on-line for a week I met what I thought was a very gorgeous, smart, hard working guy (he’s a banker). Without boring you with all the details within a couple of weeks later he had future faked me to the hills. Wanted to take me on holiday, thought I was the one he could finally settle down with and marry, took me to dinner, cooked me dinner, texted/called throughout the day and so on. However within a further few weeks later his words did not match his actions! My point is a lot of these guys on-line are predators! I didn’t want to believe this about him because he totally swept me off my feet but they come in all shapes and sizes! I’ve tried it but on-line dating is not for me and I wouldn’t encourage it to anyone.
Yes. Yes. And yes. Guilty as charged.
My break up with the ex and wading back into the dating pool have taught me a lot about this subject.
I want to be in a happy, fulfilling relationship. However, when it comes to relationships, I tend to chase the short term fix. This has meant:
* staying in a relationship with my ex AC, knowing he wasn’t the right one for me to avoid the pain of the break up.
* being attracted to men that are outwardly successful and interesting and regularly featured in the media but EU (my last dating experience was with a CEO connected to billionaires/celebrities/politicians – but married to his job).
On the weekend I went to a wedding and actually met a nice, normal guy. Not a CEO, not wealthy, not in the media – but a nice, emotionally healthy, sweet guy. There was an instant attraction, which I have only had one other time in my life. This is new for me.
I need to think long term, rather than chase the short term fix of “Oh, isn’t he interesting/successful and he likes me.” These relationships have got me nowhere in the past.
Another insight that I’ve learnt recently as well is this:
I’ve had to fight the feeling that I’m running out of time to meet someone (a combination of the biological clock and my perspective that life only happens once and I need to make the absolute most of it, which means a fulfilling relationship). However, I have realised that it is better to take the time now to meet the RIGHT person, than waste years of my life with someone that I have settled for and does not make me happy.
Living in a fantasy world and chasing a short term fix will not lead me into a healthy, normal, fulfilling relationship.
I need to accept being alone now, whether it be for a month, year, or ten years, and wait for the RIGHT person to spend the rest of my life with, rather than spending the next month, year or ten years chasing short term fixes with EU/ACs and being unhappy in the long-term.
I’ve either thought or commented several times on other posts that this is your “best post ever”, but this is really your best post ever…
i was doing really well being nearly four months NC and suddenly, feel horrified at myself that i have declared it really over.
i am noshing like a starved bear …
i feel like NCC right now. i printed her reply out to reread. maybe it is the christmas crack … must be. you want everything to be sweet and soft at this time … and then jan 2nd to get tough about life again.
i find myself looking for excuses to call his friend … his friend still has a book of mine. but when i changed my no. i did not pass it along so i kinda cut him off too … after all he was the unavailable’s friend, not mine.
boy … this stuff is so hard. i thought i was completely in the clear … now i am creating texts to send his friend, trying to pry. ugh.
Lynne — stay strong, hon. 4 months was my cracking point and I did it. From experience, please don’t. It will pass and you will be so much stronger without the backsliding. ((hugs))
lynne,
I’m just going out on a limb here but if you contact this “friend” and he gives word back to the ex…….I’d imagine the ex would get the idea you’re snooping around. I used to find the flimsiest reasons to get in contact with an ex but you can always buy that book again. They’re cheap on Amazon.
Hey lynne,
I loved the phrase “noshing like a starved bear”. I can totally relate. In the US we call it “jonsing”. Like Coloro and Coffee Cat, I’d suggest hanging tight. Don’t text the friend. It is too obviously desperate. After 5-6 months strict NC, a month or so ago, the exMM was doing the scouting thing and contacting my friend who promptly reported back to me even though she didn’t have a clue cos I was an OW. It just made me laugh to know that he was still rooting around trying to see what I was doing. He just came off like a desperate fool. Don’t be the desperate fool. I knew he was fishing and your ex will know too. At some point the rubber meets the road and no amount of future faking by you or by him can mask reality. Stick it out. It gives me great glee to know that he doesn’t know what I’m doing. By next year, I won’t even care whether he knows what I’m doing. Feed your hungry bear with a pot of homemade stew.
“At some point the rubber meets the road and no amount of future faking by you or by him can mask reality. Stick it out.”
So true runner. Wise words.
I never thought of ‘sucking and seeing’ as future faking, but it is! When I’ve gone back, I knew that it wasnt going to work, I knew I would have to face my friends and family as to why I was putting myself in the same situation. I always thought future faking was making promises about the future that one never intended to go through with. But it can also mean knowing that they dont intend to carry through on their promises but fooling yourself into thinking they will or knowing they wont but you ignore that tidbit because of whatever you are getting at the moment. I’ve done both and sometimes wasnt even surprised when nothing materialized. I’ve had two friends tell me in the last week that their boyfriends have basically told them the relationship is going nowhere but they are sticking around because of the holidays. One wouldnt want to be dateless on New Years even if it is fake.
Three words for ya’ll….wolf, Wolf, WOLF!!! Why isnt anyone running? Let me see if I can figure it out…create drama, check…attention seek…check. Everything, check. My esteem is so below the basement (me, not him) that I keep reading “fake it til u make it” & “believe it and it will happen” (not here Nat) can I just say I feel like an even bigger ass for it! Oh I can drum up some really self rightious bs. And not much the pagent type, I still think I reign as ‘Lil Miss Instant Gratification’. The drug reference is so true too. I know it takes about as long to dig out of a hole that it took you to dig. My FF mentality is the stubborn kid who stays out past dark because ‘By God, tell ME to come in, IM going to make it to China (hole digging). Sigh. Like I say, drama, check. Im ready to fel better now.
Hi Natalie, I’m reading Steven Carter’s “He’s Scared She’s Scared” and I’m reminded that like when I studied biology in college, I used several sources to give me information on the subject in a variety of methods which gave me the basic same info but stated it differently and thus my learning was active and not repetitive through memorisation. Your site, suggested readings, “How to survive your breakup and make it the best thing that ever happened to you”….all of these are teaching me…different voices but similar messages…it is so awesome to have writing and communication available to seekers…and the sharing of the learning which comes about from our lives…invaluable. Wishing you the best and glorious holidays with your loved ones. May 2012 serve us all in our quests. Peace to us all ladies and gents.
I love how this blog has awaken me to the role I also played in what happened between me and the guy I was putting up with. It’s different however than blaming myself which I did a lot of in the very beginning. “What did I do wrong?” “Did I push him away?” etc etc etc. Most of you know this song and dance.
Now however, I am able to take responsibility in a logical and constructive way. I see that yes, while he lied and did things I would never have done to him, I was also likely emotionally unavailable not to mention an entire slew of other things (low self-esteem in particular) which is why I struck around. It really does take two for the most part and I have accepted that and don’t go around loathing him anymore. I’m still upset over what he did (lied, made everything into one huge riddle, hanging and almost certainly sleeping with another girl because he didn’t know we were “together”, blowing hot and cold, playing the victim) and on and on and on. But I’m not wrecked with rage anymore which is a nice feeling. I like to move on from things, learning from them so to better myself but inevitably, moving forward.
This blog has indefinitely been the #1 source of me being able to do just that. I see myself in such a different and more positive light than I did just 5-6 months ago. It’s insane the amount of learning and development that can manifest from a bad situation which lead me to the discovery of this blog.
michelle
I think six months really is the magic turning point provided you actively pursue your own happiness (counselling, gym, going out, reading, meditation, religion, whatever rocks your boat), rather than just sit at home shooting yourself in the foot (oh woe is me, I can’t get over it, I’m crap, I’m worthless, I’ll never love again, everyone hates me).
I managed do drag out my recovery for over three years but, you know what, it was still worth it! At least that three years is behind me and not in front of me. The sooner you commit to your real future (not your fake one), the sooner it will come.
PS it won’t be three years for anyone else out there. I didn’t have BR at the time and didn’t know about the powers of NC.
Grace,
Thanks for the reply! I believe it has been 6 months for me as well. Yup, six months exactly. I guess that really is a magic number. There were days when I would look back after it all and just feel so sad about everything all over again. Now when I think back sometimes, even to the moments that were great, I don’t feel sad. I feel indifferent. They were moments in my life like any other. I don’t regret that they’re over or anything of the sort much like I used to. Now I know that there is much better out there and that those moments will eventually be trumped by others vastly superior with someone who is emotionally avaliable and wants what I want.
Michelle
I totally agree with you as well! I was stuck on thinking when I met him I was so happy, but now he has left/dumped me I feel like shit! The lesson I have learnt is that although I felt good at the time I wasn’t “dating with my self esteem in tow”. Because if I had, I would have questioned certain behaviour and things that he said without just brushing them over and thinking I am going to be the one to change him. This guy would actually brag about the amount of women that find him attractive (red flag) and that at 35 years old he had met so many nice women but chose not to settle down with them because it didn’t suit his lifestyle. Although this made me feel uncomfortable and wonder if I was good enough, I didn’t bloody say anything to him! On reflection I should have questioned him about this or just realised what a tosser he really is and bounced, but I didn’t I continued to future fake with him.
However, I have learnt so much from it and I too am no longer angry or sad. This site and a book called In the Meantime (which I recommend) have been an absolute God send. Thanks NML 🙂
Hey Stephanie
I did the exact same thing! I overlooked behaviors and didn’t speak up when I should have. The guy I put up with straight out said one time to an acquaintance right in front of me that “relationships were shit,” and pretty much hinted that sex was all you needed etc. When he said it, he looked at me from the corner of his eye and started to laugh. I overlooked it because he has such a warped and dry sense of humor that even his friends (whom have known him for years) don’t know when he’s being serious or not for a large majority of the time. Instead, I should have confronted this comment and talked to him about it. Whether it was a joke or not shouldn’t have mattered because it made me uncomfortable. But nope, I just kept on lying to myself and trucking forward.
It’s such a great feeling not to be angry or sad anymore. This site really is amazing. And I’m totally going to look into that book! 😉
“What is needed is for us to enlighten ourselves – and when we do we won’t waste our time anymore with men who do not want to be with us (while we keep trying to explain to them that they do and all what else they are doing “wrong” – they don’t give a crap!)”
Good point, Fearless. My EU obviously didn’t care when he was being rude, disrespectful, etc. He once responded to me (briefly and calmly) telling him a comment was rude with, ‘are you done yet?’ I still feel like it would have been nice to give him a 20 words or less run down at the end, but he wouldn’t have heard it, and even if he did, it wouldn’t result in some kind of fundamental change–it’s all ‘me me me’ with these guys, which is obviously how he wants it.
However, I’m not sure that he was all that aware of what was going on. Of course he knew that I still wanted him and was taking advantage of that, but at the same time I do think he was back and forth on what he wanted. I do think he had feelings for me–who knows, maybe he thought we would be together down the line, although that’s obviously not good enough–but I think part of the reason it was hard to make sense of his actions is b/c he was legitimately all over the place. He’s gone on more than once about “how much he has going on in his mind” blah blah. Not to make excuses–either way, scatter brained or deliberate, it’s not good enough. I think sometimes when they run hot it’s b/c they mean it at the time….and then when something more is expected of them they flake out yet again.
A
“part of the reason it was hard to make sense of his actions is b/c he was legitimately all over the place.”
Yes, I do agree, up to a point -he is wanting what he wants when he wants it but he is riddled with ambivalence. They hardly know what they want from one five minutes to the next – fickleness personified. They do know – full well – that they are crap boyfriends, that they run hot and cold, that their behaviour must be confusing, they know their behaviour is selfish, that they don’t want you getting too close, that they don’t want you expecting too much, that they don’t want to commit to anything, that they want things to happen on their own terms and those terms include changing the goal posts whenever they feel like it – they do know all of this. It’s not news to them. They do know that they make very bad boyfriends – they know their behaviour is hurtful. So, all I’m saying is, they know all of this, which is why they have nothing to say when it’s pointed out to them (at least my ex EUM went silent as the grave at the first hint of me telling him what I thought he didn’t get). They don’t need us to explain this to them five million different ways as if they will suddenly “get it” and give us the relationship we want. They already get that they are a waste of our time, is all I’m saying. It’s us who don’t get it…yet! But we all of us will, eventually.
fearless
They know. In a moment of contrition the playa said to me “I’m sorry I was a crap boyfriend. I was always going to be a crap boyfriend”. Then he went on to treat me worse than before.
They hold down jobs, play bills, maintain friendships, plan holidays, drive cards, apply for mortgages, feed themselves, iron shirts, put up flatpack furniture, manage a workforce, write music, teach, bring up children. But suddenly when it comes to us they don’t have a clue? If we love them so much we should at least credit them with a baseline level of intelligence. By making excuses for them we are, in fact, being quite patronising towards them and treating them as less than us. “Oh I can’t expect him to understand because he’s not as good/smart/patient/aware as I am”.
They’re not unaware. They just act stupid because it gets them benefits with no cost to themselves.
When I look back, the playa – all of 28 years old and full of boyish charm – played me like the most expert of fly fishers.
Yes Grace. I completely agree. I have no idea why I felt compelled to “explain” it all the the ex EUM arsey man. I did stop eventually cos he never made any response – he would not engage with it at all.
Yes, he held down a professional and highly skilled job. An v successful academic – a great thinker – world leader in his field – he could write ten thousand word ‘essays’ for journals without a flinch; he is editor of many publications; he is on the board for this and that and everything else… he is chairman of this and that and everything – essentially he reads and writes and teaches for a living – but ask him to engage in some genuine, heartfelt, frank, open and honest communication and he was was apparently reduced to the level of the illiterate – I would get two or three words containing two syllables each, at most – by text or email and those two or three words would read like a riddle. But the point is that he is most certainly not illiterate, he is in fact highly skilled in that area. So they do know – he knew exactly what he was doing far better than I did – and he wasn’t about to enlighten me! He is also an arsehole. By his own final admission. That’s what he was trying to conceal from me all this time!
I too felt compelled to explain and tell the guy I was with exactly what he had done wrong and what was wrong with him. I thought I needed him to provide me with closure but this blog taught me that is not the case at all, I am in control of creating that for myself etc. Like Grace said, he played dumb with me. When I confronted him about being with another girl it was all “I’m confused.” His words exactly. Yet, to his friends and mine (because I know him through a best-friend’s boyfriend,) he admitted that he did know what was going on and wanted to know “who told,” etc. When I broke no contact with him and did say much of what I felt I needed to say at that time his response was to ask me about my trip (which I had been on when I found out about him and this other girl etc). I poured out everything to him, took accountability for my part in things, tried to generate a conversation and he blatantly ignored it, pleaded ignorance and refused to take accountability. That’s when I finally realized that he was an extreme waste of time. I cannot be with someone who deals with situations in life by ignoring them and playing the victim. People who cannot own up to their actions concern me a great deal. And now to this day, he ignores every situation in which I will be present. Talk about a sad way to live your life not to mention pathetic.
Fearless,
Thanks for the reply. I agree that it’s a waste of time trying to explain anything. I’m sure that in my case the EU knew that certain actions were bs, but I also think that he considers himself to be a great catch and justifies a lot of his behaviour to himself. At a certain point I guess there is no sense in trying to figure out someone who thinks and behaves irrationally!
A
exactly.
If I turned up at your house and started throwing all your books on the floor, tormenting your dog, raiding the fridge, while all the time announcing that I’m a great house guest, a terrific friend, and a very houseproud and tidy person would you
a) follow me around, telling me about myself
b) ask me lots of pertinent, searching questions; or
c) kick me out?
Hi guys, thanks for all your posts, I’m not having a brilliant day today but that’s ok, I’m still resolved to NC and see the ex clearly for what he is, a lazy, lying, non working, chasing every woman in site, child leaving, taking money from mother, cruel, heartless EUM/AC. I was feeling very loving today, towards all people and yes,
the AC, not in a way that I wanted to be back
with him but seeing him as I like to see all
people ~ I like to see the good in people, but
this is dangerous territory for me to go down, I
am better off remembering how he treated me
and concentrating on looking after me and
Natalie, these guys should be outed, big time,
as in, you should write a movie, I’m sure it would
be a hit, these guys are everywhere but as one
of you ladies already said, they really do not like
themselves at all and to be that dishonest is a
terrible tragedy, a terrible way for anyone to be
and it permeates those around them, I am just
so glad I can once again be honest, open and
just simply being me ~ if I’m not good enough
for him then bloody good, maybe he’ll leave me
the hell alone. I was wondering why he hadn’t
called, now I’m glad he hasn’t but I’m quite sure
he will as he wants me as a fall back girl, not
because of anything to do with me but because
he needs the attention of women to make him
feel ok, well, I’ve done my time with him, nearly
6 years, my child bearing years gone but hey, it
taught me a lesson I needed to learn, to love,
care for and respect me, it’s been 3 week NC so
I’m not expecting miracles, the feelings, thoughts
etc will fade in time but in the mean time I’m
looking after me and getting on with my life
even if that means just caring for me for now.
But couldn’t do it without this site, without you
Natalie and all you ladies ~ apart from the one that confused me with thinking it’s ok or even good to be deceitful???? I have a migraine and can’t take in that rubbish tonight. Thank you ladies, as always, good luck to all xxx
This article is right on the mark. I know I’ve been guilty of this at times and it pains me to see other people making that same mistake. In fact I forwarded this article to a friend who is future faking herself beyond belief. She was so in denial that she couldn’t realize the article described our last 7 conversations about her ex. 🙁
Thanks for helping me out, though. 🙂
Unfortunetly, I am guilty of being this person. The horrible part is that I do it not only to myself but my husband! The whole I promise I’ll massage you if you massage me first then when it’s time to give I’m too tired. A lot of dieters or addicts I could also see being this way. If this is my last burger today I’ll start running tomorrow or this is my last drag of a cig tomorrow I’ll quit. Great post! Thanks for sharing!!