Imagine that you were trying to fill a job role and one of the candidates made inappropriate comments, or was argumentative, or maybe they crossed the line. Would you still go ahead and hire them or bring them in for another interview?
Let’s take this a step further: Imagine that you’re interviewing/screening for a potential partner for a joint venture opportunity. They’ve said all of the right things that suggest they could be a potential fit. Now, you’re meeting up to see how they stack up in real life. Would you feel as if you could meet them once or a few times and be in business with them?
Let’s say they blew you off and didn’t even call to say that they couldn’t make it. Would you still hold them in the same light? If they were critical, passive-aggressive, aggressive, very forward, railroading your NO, what then? Wouldn’t you think, Hmm, something’s smelling very funky here? You’d maybe try to step back so you could see things more objectively.
Or maybe you’d ask more questions. Perhaps you’d just straight-up flush the situation because you realise that this is not taking you towards where you want to go. You’d put your own instincts ahead of the opinion of someone who you’ve known for a hot minute. You definitely wouldn’t be mentally already in business with this person without having 1) met them or 2) taken some time to suss them out before committing to progressing things.
No one person is having more ‘power’ and deciding votes than the other; you are both free to walk away at any time. It is a discovery phase. After an initial impression triggered curiosity and possibly attraction, you get a sense, not just of how they stack up in real life, but also how you are around him/her. It’s like, Who am I with this person? Am I more of who I am or less? Am I genuinely happy and present or am I in a state of anxiety and if so, why?
If there’s any concern over ‘power’, then it’s not dating; it’s auditioning. And of course, if you go on every date feeling as if you’re possibly on the verge of landing the role of a lifetime, then not only are you going to be stressed about so much as putting a foot wrong but you will actually forget to show up as an equal party.
You will forget to do your part of what is supposed to be a co-interview process. It will be the equivalent of subsisting on scraps and taking bit parts here and there to cover the bills (your self-esteem) but waiting for your the “big break”. Being you and self-care then become like the crappy job until you get to do what you really want.
If you treat dates as if they’re auditions, I hate to break it to you, but they’re now your boss. Or certainly your future one! That’s concerning when you either don’t know them yet, haven’t met them, or have but know that you don’t share similar core values.
It’s crucial to acknowledge that the way an auditionee conducts themselves is entirely different from someone whos’ aware of choosing. The latter knows that they are a separate, worthwhile individual who had a life worth living before this person entered their radar and will still have a life worth living if it turns out that they’re not The One Forever and Ever Amen.
It pains me to see people selling themselves off cheaply. It’s like, “Please let this person be even a little bit decent so that I never have to go on a date again or be alone”. It’s damn lonely in a relationship that isn’t mutual or where you’ve settled for crumbs because don’t get things twisted:
It’s very easy to go, “I went on X dates with Y assclowns so that means that there are no decent women/men left to date” but at some point, you have to start asking questions.
OK, I know that I can’t control who approaches me but in a world where everyone who dates will encounter some duff deals, especially if they’re starting off online,
1) Why do I think I’m different to people who do go on to have mutually fulfilling healthy relationships?
2) What stops me from either cutting and running as soon as it becomes evident that they’re not great partnership material, or from ensuring that I screen with greater due diligence and stay grounded?
Your answers will help you to understand where you’re really coming from.
A change in attitude relieves a hell of a lot of the stress and anxiety associated with dating. It also significantly impacts your choices.
They show up willing to be who they are instead of thinking, OK, what does the role of their girlfriend/boyfriend or future spouse call for me to act like?
Act like? Being yourself is better than signing up for the soul-destroying act of sucking up to ‘The Boss’ in the hopes of getting a promotion or a seat on the board.
When you co-interview while dating, you realise that you matter too.
You think about the partnership you want to create and how you’re going to copilot. There’s not taking a back seat at the outset and then trying to get up to the front. You also listen to the feedback of your experiences and your intuition so that you become more attuned to when to proceed and when to roll back. You don’t agonise about stepping away after one or a few dates.
Also, just as you don’t really know what the company, job role or partnership is like until you get started, you need to recognise that proceeding from dating to a relationship is where you essentially agree to see what the professed or assumed values are like in action over time. It’s easier to do this and enjoy positive results when you lay the foundations. Yep, this means showing up as an equal from the outset and co-interviewing. You can’t go from auditionee to copilot!
Suddenly, those who think that they can do as they like because they’ve been accommodated by people who don’t have boundaries, won’t get as much airtime. They won’t be able to go on about how “busy” they are or be able to act as if they have a flock of ‘candidates’ vying for this ‘amazing’ prize.
Sure, there will always be people who act that way (and there always has been). The difference is, though, that you won’t be hanging around them. They’re not suited to what you have in mind for you. In your mind, the cogs will turn and it will be like, Beep, beep, beep. Not partnership material.
There’s also a portion of these people who get wise to their ways and become open to loving, copiloted relationships but it’s not going to happen in a relationship where the other party is sheltering them from the truth and yes, they are likely to regret how they acted with some of their exes.
And this is all done without guarantees but always with a level of investment.
What makes dating hard though is:
Is it really fair to say the latter? Or does that just make it easier to secretly accept failure from the outset and remain stuck in a pattern that’s not serving you where it’s safer?
Don’t give up on you. Until you’ve spent as much time dating from a place of equality as you have from a place of being a pleaser who feels inferior in some way, it’s far too early to call it.
Your thoughts?
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Thanks so much for this, Nat! I am catching myself now — I started out dating my BF with amazing confidence and sense of self, and my pleaser habits and submissiveness crept in and started wearing on the relationship. I set a goal to get my mojo back and things are already improving. It’s much more gratifying to be a busy, friendly border collie who loves to hang out but has plenty to do, than a desperate chihuahua who doesn’t know how to be anything but a lap dog and yaps at the heels of whoever won’t give it what it needs.
I think we both have alpha/omega tendencies that we are trying to grow out of. I hope there’s enough love to walk hand-in-hand into uncharted equal territory.
I totally agree!!!
Natalie, thank you for writing such an articulate piece again! The last paragraphs are so powerful. Your writing is very insightfull, authentic, and rings true every time, while also being so supportive and compassionate.
I have never found better advice on building self worth and dignity. I just wanted to tell you how valuable your blog is to those of us who are on a path of learning to honor and respect our self, which, I believe, also serves a higher purpose of helping to correct the existing enequality imbalance.
You are a blessing ! Keep up your wonderful work!
I agree Inna. I realised there was a disjuncture between my supporting equality on one hand, and on the other, having an instinct to be dominated, as in my old patterns. Thankfully, my instincts have caught up with my values, and it makes me uncomfortable now to feel like I’ve had my power taken away. If my affirmation that I can do as I please falls on my own deaf ears, there is a problem.
I’d like to second this: Natalie, thank you for Baggage Reclaim!
What a lovely article Nat, thank you so much. I think a haunting thought for me that comes to mind is if next time I date, can I trust myself enough – now that I know better, have worked on myself and am more aware and familiar with my pleasing patterns – ? You address that in the self esteem workshop and this is my biggest fear. I have not opened up to dating yet as I am discovering about being happy in solitude and in my own company. But I can hear my inner voice saying: It’s time! Get out there, girl! The happiest moment for me will be the one I feel my own power of stepping away from a “red flag” with due diligence. No drama, no talks, no fixing. Just loving me and choosing wisely. Nat, you rock.
Viviane
I am always nervous on 1st dates. I suppose I go into them like you are stating. I’m always hoping they will like me or think I’m girlfriend material. I’m still present and wondering if they are boyfriend material as well though. I have started to feel there is never going to be someone with both the qualities I seek and who I am attracted to. Dating seems aggravating in that regard. I don’t like endless dates. Taking a break from it for awhile and focusing on myself.
Wow, Natalie, this is truth itself! You always give precise and in-depth advice, yet this one came in a very right time for me.
That’s what I always rationally wanted from dates and (eventually) relationships – being treated as an equal, not as the one controlling or being controlled. Yet here where I live (practically on border between former USSR and Europe) we seem to have a somewhat misshaped dating and relationship culture. Women, as far as I see and hear, are meant to be pleasing their man – in fact, any man who asks them out, because ‘lots of guys drink or don’t have a job or have some other issues’, so ‘you must grab and hold on to the decent guy (even if you feel he’s not your cup of tea), and love, care, trust and respect will come in time if you’re smart enough to make it happen’. Like a woman should be a sorceress or something… I’ve tried to act (to act! I admit it) this way and it hasn’t led to anything but disappointment and self-esteem problems. I’ve only lasted a week on an online dating site the last time because it was just odd and I felt bad and tired. In addition, I’ve never had much luck meeting guys offline either, so… ashamed to confess, but I’ve had a too few dates for a 30+ year old to talk of any serious experience on that front.
Anyway, thanks to your topics on healthy relationships, boundaries and all the rest of them good things, I’m getting focused on how to treat myself better and become more optimistic! :))
“When you co-interview, you realise that you matter too.”
This is good. If I date again (it has been ages), this will likely be the thing I need to work on – not being so nervous & shy that I downplay myself and (inadvertently) blow smoke up a date’s ass. As always, thanks for the words of wisdom.
Seeking Advice:
This post couldn’t have come at a better time. Not really sure how I feel right now. I’ve been in dating unavailable men so long now I honestly don’t know what it’s like to date someone that has genuine interest in me.
Ladies, i’ve been dating this man 2 months now. We’ve gone on a few dinner dates. We’ve also been having sex. I met some of his family / friends but i’ve chosen to keep my friends/family and child out of the picture because i’m unsure of what this is or where it’s going to be honest. It started out great. I liked that we were both parents and we shared a few common interests. But I noticed that he was very reserved…too reserved if that explains it.
Every time we go out on dates he’s quiet. Barely speaks unless spoken to. When we speak on the phone he’s distracted (texting in my ear, watching tv, surfing the net). I remember catching feelings for him and expressing it (crying) and getting no response a couple weeks ago. It was in the early morning after spending the night together and he merely kissed my cheek and said he had to go. Here I am feeling like i’m having to prove my worth…feeling like my feelings aren’t reciprocated. After this happened I remember none of us really spoke to each other for about a week before he was suddenly calling / texting me to tell me how much he misses me and how wanted to come over late night for movies and popcorn. (Starting to feel like a booty call cause this is really all we’ve been doing once or twice a week)
He’s expressed in the past he likes me and isn’t sure where this is headed and mentioned that I really just needed to relax and let things take course but i’m starting to think i’m wrong for staying. I have to wait for this man to initiate the calls/texts because i’m not chasing anyone anymore. I feel like we only get together on his time and never mine. It’s always about what he wants to do and not me. He barely compliments me and after 2 months he has not expressed his feelings towards me NOT ONE TIME. He turns over after sex everytime and falls into deep sleep. No pillow talk, no cuddles…nothing. I noticed he also doesn’t try to get to know me.
Conversations are merely about the stresses from ‘his’ job, ‘his’ life, ‘his’ plans…him, him, him. He take lead of all the conversations & never stops to ask about me and how i’m doing. We also haven’t spent a ‘day’ together. We seem to only get together late night for dinner dates or he’s coming over my place. I don’t even feel like i’m getting to know him. I’m still here because I don’t want to brush him off because he doesn’t feel for me what I feel for him at the time that I feel for him if that makes sense. I can’t expect us to both be emotionally invested at the same time can I? Don’t men typically take longer to catch feelings anyway? Maybe, he’ll eventually come around? Maybe my feelings are based off the sex because to be honest this man hasn’t given me any reason to like him based on how he treats me.
It’s like he doesn’t call / text me for days and knows all he has to say is “I miss you” and “you’re beautiful, can I come see you tonight?” and it’ll be granted. Crazy cause when I hear these words come out of his mouth or read them from our text messages it’s almost foreign to me because in the two months of us dating he’s probably only called be beautiful twice. I could take hours getting ready for our date and I won’t get one compliment or a door opened for me lol. At first I thought he probably just wasn’t romantic …but after he expressed it the other day only to ask to see me I realized he knows what he’s doing.
I want to be patient. Now when we get together and sleep together I don’t express how i feel, I don’t expect anything anymore, I basically no longer try. He made a joke one time saying that he knows once he leaves he’ll get a long emotional text message from me and that made me feel so bad cause it’s almost like he’s mocking me. So I stopped sending the long emotional dissertations because I never got responses anyway.
Am I wrong for staying? I’m I overthinking? Should I wait 3 months as they say?
What is it that you like about this man? Do you have the same relationship vision? (To me it seems like you dont). It also seems as though he doesn’t value you and if you reach out he doesn’t not respond. There are lots of red flags in your post (to me). I would ditch him.
Cycles,
I agree with Alissa! There are so many red flags and your inner voice knows this is not right. You are answering your own questions based on your post. First, STOP SLEEPING WITH HIM! You have said nothing about a relationship. Men do not equate sex with a relationship. Leave this man alone because based on what you are describing you are heading heartache if you don’t change the dynamic of this relationship.
I don’t even know where to start – the guy has done so many rude things! Basically it boils down to – does it seem like you’re getting trust, care and respect from him? I can’t see one thing you’ve said that indicates ‘yes’. He’s showing you through his behaviour what he thinks of you, and probably all women. If he has started out in this way after a mere 2 months, I wouldn’t be thinking that he’s suddenly going to become nicer to you any further down the line – that isn’t logical. More realistically it’ll be that he gets worse the more he sees that you’ll accept his dismissive treatment. It’s not even to do with it taking longer for guys to ‘catch feelings’. Whether it does or doesn’t, a half decent human being of either gender would treat the person they’re dating in a KIND manner!
As for him half jokingly saying that when he leaves he knows he’ll get a long emotional text from you: he did indeed sound like he was mocking you. He’s pretty much saying he knows he can treat you how he likes and that you’ll still come running. Unbelievable! If I were you I’d show him different i.e. show him the door, thus proving that you do have a decent amount of self-respect. Honestly this guy is causing way too much stress for the ‘discovery period’ of dating – he has unfolded into a jerk already. Have you read Nat’s posts on dating?
Cycles, you are a booty call to this man. You know it, but you don’t want to believe it. You need to read Natalie’s post titled “Why Do They Keep Having Sex With Me If They’re Not Interested or Don’t Want The Relationship I Want?” – it’s in the right navigation bar and also I linked it below. Read the comments in that post, too. You will see that lots of people have been in your shoes, and maybe it will help you heal after you let this man go. Because you do need to let go of this man.
Say goodbye to this man, Cycles. Do not ever contact him again. Do not respond to his cute texts that will inevitably come once you go no contact. This man should be dead to you. Because this man does not want to be YOUR man, and you obviously want a relationship. He is not interested in anything but the sex, and no amount of trying on your part is going to change his mind. That is NOT because you are not good enough. It IS because he is not interested in having a full relationship with you. Sometimes we win, sometimes we lose. Accept this loss and move on. The more you try to change his mind, the more disrespectful he will be. Because your willingness to hang around and take crumbs is telling him that he can treat you like crap and you’ll always be there. That is not love, Cycles. You are not showing him how loving you can be by accepting his crumbs. You are saying to him “I don’t love myself, and I am begging you to love me. So I’ll take any abuse as long as you don’t leave me for good.”
As far as whether he is an AC or not. I don’t know. He’s been very clear that he is not interested in anything but the booty.
And – IS it a loss? You admit that for the most part there is nothing between you two – mentally. Move on, girl.
Why Do They Have Sex With Me If They Don’t Want Me?
Well he’s letting her think that there could be something more by introducing her to family and sending her nicey nice texts if he senses she’s getting annoyed by his treatment. It’s not like he has come out and said that he only wants casual as he probably suspects she doesn’t want that. So to me he’s an AC – it’s the slyness, manipulation and self-interest that shows that to me. Anyway whether he is or isn’t, he’s no good as he’s just plain disrespectful as a person.
A few things jumped out at me: it’s not wise to wait for him to contact you (all the time) and then complain that the relationship seems to be on his terms.
You’re sending him a very clear message, by not contacting him or changing the dynamic, that you are agreeing to this.
Also, in my experience men know VERY quickly how they see a woman (as a long-term prospect or something less serious), this has always intrigued me and I’ve tried to find out how by asking various men but they don’t want to share the secrets 🙂
But it is pretty much universal, with this in mind two months is ample time for him – and YOU, don’t forget you – to get a sense of how you think about the other.
There’s nothing wrong with a casual set-up, indeed it might be perfect for you, but if that’s the case don’t expect all the other added extras – and this includes compliments, such as you being beautiful. Besides, I’ve learnt that the men who say things like this are often not to be trusted; they show their real feelings by how they act, rather than what they say.
My advice, based on what you wrote, is that you need to focus more on how you feel. Shift the attention back to you. My guess is that you’re wanting to end it, but feel uneasy about doing this for whatever reason (prob nothing to do with him in the end).
Magpie, I cannot agree with this more! I think a lot of problems can stem from this key difference between the sexes.
It’s quite common for me to be indifferent to a guy and not really find him attractive initially, but then gradually come to like him more and more, over time, as a result of getting to know him better. I think this phenomenon of a guy ‘growing on you’ is quite common for women.
Where we go wrong, is in assuming that this is a common way in which men pick relationship partners, too. We assume that because we can become more interested/attached over time, that’s how it happens for men.
In fact, as you say, most men seem to decide very early on whether they want a relationship or just casual sex from a woman who they are involved with. They are also far less picky than the average woman (in terms of needing to feel a personal connection) when simply choosing who they want to sleep with.
We go wrong in thinking:
1) I only ever have sex with guys I really like, therefore he must really like me if he’s sleeping with me.
OR
2) Guys grow on me all the time, maybe I’ll grow on him as a girlfriend candidate.
After more than a month, if a guy is still saying “let’s not rush things/let’s keep it casual” it’s because he’s already written you off as not compatible to be his long term partner, but hey… why be upfront about that and stop a steady/easy source of sex while he hunts for someone more suitable?
In my experience, in my long term relationships, I knew within a matter of weeks that the guy in question was serious. In contrast, any casual/ambiguous situations with men continued to be ambiguous, until I eventually got pissed off about the perpetual casualness and pulled the plug.
These guys are never serious, they just want to see how much hassle free sex they can milk out of the situation until you finally realise that you’re never going to “grow on them” as girlfriend material.
I agree with you Magpie. Men do know very early on whether a woman is a long-term prospect or NO. If you aren’t in that long-term category, then they will string along in an uncommitted way as long as the woman will let them.
Depending on other outside factors, a man may even marry a woman that they really don’t want, and in his head, if he’s never felt emotionally committed, he will be the uncommitted married man.
Cycles,
This sounds like my recent ex – dismissive, no effort to engage with me but still would come over and eat MY food, watch my TV, never made effort to take me out or make plans but was still happy to sleep in my bed. Heck, he even introduced me to some of his colleagues for after work drinks and helped me move home (which he loved to remind me about as if it was the greatest contribution/sacrifice any man has ever made for his woman). What a tool. Anyways, the situationship was lacking in so many basic yet fundamental elements that it became very difficult to ignore, so I dumped him, and never felt better.
You need to give him the boot my friend, and learn that:
– You shouldn’t be sleeping with a guy so early on in the dating process, especially when their feelings for you are ambiguous. Sex is something to be earned, along with trust, love, loyalty etc.
– Any man who doesn’t make an effort to compliment you, take you out and show you off to the world is not worth your time.
– Netflix and chill is NOT acceptable during the dating discovery phase. You should never have allowed him to enter your home so soon, they have to earn that privilege, it’s not a God given right.
– Get rid of any man who can sit there and watch you cry whilst you bare your soul to him about your feelings. He obviously doesn’t care about you.
– Two months isn’t a long enough time to know someone and decide that you’re going to commit to a relationship with them. SLOW down in future and give the man and relationship time to unfold.
– Always trust your instincts in future! If you start to second-guess yourself and/or feel anxious about a man’s behaviour/attitude towards you, it’s a strong sign that he’s not The One. Flush, flush, flush!
– Read all of Natalie’s posts on BR and embed them in your heart, mind and soul. I have learnt so much in the last 2-3 years from reading her blog and I love the support and advice that is given by the BR community.
Ultimately, it’s up to you to decide what you deserve. If you want to be this man’s booty call then by all means carry on. If you want an actual relationship based on trust, respect, shared values, love etc – then you need to dump him now, and start loving yourself more.
Wishing you all the best!
i dont usually reply in comment section but dam this spoke to me on so many levels.
First of all i am a man and i have acted just like this man you are dating. He is immature, selfish and very misguided on how relationships work but i do not judge, or try not to. Also i have done work on myself reading natalies blogs and others like it, still a human learning and evolving. Always a work in progress to know i needed to change. not everyone else.
I say all that because what i want to know is Do you even really want answers to your questions or are you just wasting our time with your rant because you are in a space that doesnt make you happy and you are not willing to change? It seems to me that its very obvious what you need to do.
Its not fair of you to share all that stuff, which is good stuff and sounds like you are in distress, if you are not willing to look at yourself and actually listen. There are some very helpful people on this site. People who know what you are talking about and want to help cause they been there and they are pulling for you to do the healthy thing. This guys actions are so blatantly obnoxious its ludicrous that you are putting up with it..and i know its easy for me to say but seriously i cant help but think you are being selfish in your own way. I dont mean to sound insensitive because i am not. I am a sensitive feeling guy but your post triggered me in such a way i needed to reach out. I felt like i needed to be the one to throw some reality holy water on this confession. If thats all this is then its not our job to help. What you need is a journal and some good therapy.
In my opinion, and i am just some bloke in the states having a strong reaction so what does my two cents add up too, but this web site is meant for taking action. Maybe thats what you are doing and this is your first step so congrats on that but dont waste anyones time if you just plan to stay with this fool while he just keeps getting what he wants, free sex, while you keep giving away your spirit and he is lying next to you snoring.
Thank you so much ladies. It’s almost like I needed validation for what I already knew. It hurts because he’s so nice and one of the ‘least’ expected people to ever put me in this sort of predicament and I feel like he could be starting to like me sometimes and then he does something questionable and i’m back to square one. *sighs* Back to ground 1 and the healing process.
Thank you for being such a great support ladies.
Good for you, Cycles. I really hope you stick to your guns and end it with this guy. The hardest part is going to be keeping your resolve when he starts with the I miss you/ you’re beautiful texts, when you try and break it off.
He sounds very much like a man who I have been involved with, so I think there is a high chance that he may throw in some guilt tripping, along with the flattery, to try and make you feel bad for asserting your boundaries. Don’t let him make you feel guilty for wanting to leave something which is a poor substitute for the kind of relationship that you want and deserve.
I’d suggest writing down what has happened when you have caved in and responded to the “you’re beautiful/I miss you” stuff in the past. The answer is nothing; he didn’t suddenly change his behaviour and become the loving/equally invested partner you wanted.
If he was anything like the guy who I was involved with then he, no doubt, went straight back to late night dates and rolling over and being cold/detached after sex.
There are some men who are very calculated and will use the correct combination of flattery and guilt tripping when you try to exit an unsatisfactory casual situation.
When he does this, recognise it for what it is: it’s not an expression of any real feelings on his part but a cynical attempt to hint at feelings that don’t exist, as he knows the hint of feelings will make you second guess your decision to walk away and stop being his booty call.
Cycles
Reading your comment made me feel both sad and angry on your behalf.
Not sure why you think you have been dating this man . It sounds like apart from having dinner with him now and then he is basically just using you for sex .
As women , I believe it is important to be aware of when we are being lied to or mislead . If someone says that they are not sure where things are headed , they like us etc that seems to imply that they are open to the possibility of a relationship .
Most people having a pretty good idea very quickly whether that is the case and it becomes more clear over time . He’s letting you believe and hope for what you want to believe and hope so that he can go on exploiting you .
If a man really likes you , and is genuinely interested it will be obvious .
His behaviour will be very different from what you are experiencing . Even then you’ve got to be wary .
That does not make it any easier to detach from someone you are emotionally invested in , particularly if you are lonely or fragile . You have to do it though .
This person is feeding off your sadness and your hope , in order to gratify himself sexually . He knows and can see that you will pay a high price and he’s got no problem with that
“This person is feeding off your sadness and your hope , in order to gratify himself sexually . He knows and can see that you will pay a high price and he’s got no problem with that”…Great point! In my experience, they can sense the loneliness and desperation (desperate for love, companionship, affection, approval, etc) based on our responses to their poor behavior. They don’t care how much their exploitation of those vulnerabilities or weaknesses hurts you, as long as they get want they want/need. Selfish and uncaring. He will try and come back and it won’t be because he cares about you, it’ll be because he wants you taking care of HIS needs, at your expense. Flush and NC.
I had one try and come back years later. My therapist warned me that they seem to have a sense for when you are down and vulnerable and they show up then!
I have also experienced that (with any ex that you’d prefer to leave in the past) they also have a sense for when you are moving on and happy and will try to show up then and reel you back in.
I once had a boyfriend of 1+ years say to me “It seems like you’re waiting for me”. I can’t put my finger on why this feels disrespectful, but it does. I also can’t think of a good response to it that isn’t drastic, such as suggesting that we no longer be exclusive. I didn’t really respond at the time. We only made it to the 18 month mark.
I would be very curious how other readers interpret his comment if you would be willing to do so.
I think it seems disrespectful because he’s being conceited/arrogant and also putting you in the lower or less powerful position. It comes across like he knows he has the upper hand – like he has you dangling on a string and he gets to decide what he wants to do with you…and *when* he wants to do it. So it’s kind of mocking in tone as well.
Thank you for replying Claire. I hadn’t considered him mocking me, but that could very well be. How would you have responded to his statement? Looking back, I wish I told him I would like to date other people, to no longer be “exclusive”, and also tell him that his comment was divisive and arrogant.
I think my self-esteem has been so low that I don’t even see how low it is because I’m in it. I let him get away with that, and that makes me angry.
Assclowns like this are so annoying. It seems necessary to apply this post to friendship, not just dating.
It seems that when you become “just friends” with these assclowns, they are also just looking for an ego stroke and attention. I was involved with one for several months, was very painful, I never want to go through that kind of massive turmoil again. Now, several months later, we are supposedly “friends” – but he keeps flirting and wanting to get as physical as possible without being romantic (e.g. slow dancing). I am 99.9% sure it’s an ego-stroke rather than any kind of interest in me, but I almost don’t care at this point.
I guess I just feel… pity that people who overall are rather interesting (like this guy) have the emotional availability and integrity of a rock.
Cycles we’re all rooting for you, good luck!
These men who want to keep it casual don’t completely hate us, you know. They like getting the best parts of us for free. They’ve learned the stock phrases that women will pin dreams to – “Let’s take it slow. Let’s see where this goes. Relax and just let it happen. Let’s be friends.” It works most of the time, so they keep using them.
For me, any of those stock phrases would be deal-breakers. I would stop seeing that man. Definitely no booty on the horizon for him. That’s because I know that I am looking for a boyfriend.
I’ve never had anyone use those phrases because I do not ask the guy for the relationship forecast. I go with how I feel.
I am certain that a man has outright said “I don’t want to be in a committed relationship right now” and the woman that he is seeing still thinks she’ll change his mind. Isn’t that the “Pretty Woman” plot line?
Yeah lots of them do say they don’t want to be in a relationship yet the woman hands around trying to change his mind – we’ve heard those stories on here before. Not all guys who are honest about wanting to keep things casual ‘hate’ women but the ones who aren’t upfront about it aren’t exactly respectful of women now are they? They’re needy users – spoilt brats.
Saying outright that they don’t want a relationship is a gamble on the guy’s part because he doesn’t know how the woman in question’s going to react. She could either hang around trying to change his mind OR she could be more sussed, realise he’s being up front and sail off over the horizon. He doesn’t want the latter as he’d lose his booty call so that’s probably why this one has chosen not to say that.
*hangs
Btw, to me it makes not a jot of difference whether a bloke outright ‘hates’ women or whether he’s just being underhanded in using the stock phrases that he has learnt works. Both of those end up with the woman being hurt and having her self-esteem lowered so how much he likes women doesn’t matter to me – not our role to psycho-analyse him. It’s the end result of his dysfunctional behaviour that’s important.
I agree there is a category of man who won’t care about your feelings and will use you. But WE control whether or not we allow ourselves to be used. We can’t decide that since I said I don’t do casual, and he is stilling calling me for sex, he knows I don’t do casual so he must want a relationship with me. I think too many women do that kind of circular thinking, resulting in heartbreak.
The guy Crystal deals with did say he liked her but was not sure where “this” was headed. He also said “relax and let things take its course”. Those are stock phrases.
I think we women should be able to read stock phrases…like being a girl scout or boy scout…you learn to read the trail….. by what is said or not said, done or not done.
We should know that meeting family and friends is not the holy grail of a relationship builder. It is often rolled out by the uncommitted, as if to have something to point to when your gut is telling you he does not care for you as much as you would like.
I think we are giving up our power if we require the other person to say to us in WORDS – “I don’t want to be in a committed relationship with you.” People say more things in actions (or non-action), not words. It’s giving up our power when we don’t want to interpret the action or non-action.
While I’ve never had a stock phrase delivered to me, I have felt non-interest from a man. And on those occasions, I stopped making efforts to “win” him over, and guess what… he disappeared from my life. As he should.
The men who really had NO interest in me disappear for good. The ACs and EUMs who want the booty with no strings keep sending the cute texts – years later, even. But they get no response, because it is up to ME to take care of my heart.
And then there are the ones who SAY they want a relationship, even ILY, but their actions are inconsistent and/or lukewarm….e.g. flowers then the push-away, ILY then a subtle dig, regular caller but then “not sure”. Now that’s a confusing mess to swim out of!
After 2 years of being single after breaking up with the Future Faking/Fast Forwarding assclown. Thanks to Natalie Lue I healed and move on with my life rather nicely. This year I braved the dating world one more time. So far the first man that I date after 2 years I think is a weirdo. He started to treat me like his girlfriend only after 1st date. Talking about trying too hard. I explained it to him that I’m not his girlfriend and I barely know him stop treating me like one. I also said that I don’t think this is working out. So i cancelled the second date. 2 days later he text me again like nothing happen. Like I never said all those words to him. I ignored all the text. Once in a while he send me a text to get a reaction from me. I just ignored him. Eventually he stop. Now I have a date with this new guy. 1st date went smoothly though a bit awkward. After the first date I found out this guy just recently broke up with his long time girlfriend. I sense that he is a bit depressed, lonely and horny. LOL. He did asked me to go out on second date. I did say it to him that I’m not interested being used as a rebound sex. He said its ok. Lets just go out to dinner and jogging together once in a while. I’m looking for a serious commited relationship at the same time trying to enjoy any dating experience along the way and get to know new people. I don’t see any harm in having dinner with this fella though. Still I’m scared that I will going to be sucked into a relationship with EUM again.
This is the most moving piece I have ever read on the problem with dating.
My crummy relationship outcomes are exactly due to the auditioning mentality. I want these jerks to be just barely decent so I can stop dating.
I am turning it around. No more throwi g pearls to pigs.
This a very interesting piece I stumbled upon. I don’t have much experience in the dating scene but this is very informative for me. Thanks for sharing. 🙂