Many BR readers are currently going through breakups, which may include No Contact – this is essentially closing your door on the relationship by cutting contact and distancing yourself, so that you have a chance to gain objectivity, break an unhealthy partnering, and gradually rebuild your life. By closing the door, you signal that the privileges that they’ve enjoyed in or out of the relationship no longer exist, and by enforcing boundaries, you also impose limits on your own behaviour, which may have detracted from you.
But as some of you have discovered, after the breakup or during No Contact, your ex may periodically, or even often, try to get your attention. They might do the same thing, almost like clockwork – I hear from readers who have exes that always reach out on the same day, or every X weeks, or Y months. Or during the holidays or whenever. Some of you have let the same ex back in with the same con numerous times.
When you’re broken up but are still receptive, it’s basically like having a security keypad on your proverbial door. Because you’re still receptive even before they attempt contact, you’ve avoided doing anything as ‘drastic’ as changing the lock or taking back their key. With the access code, you either haven’t changed it, or you have, but you’ve either changed it to a code that you know they’re likely to guess, or you keep dropping hints making it easy for them to figure it out. Maybe you send texts saying that you miss them or that you’re really hurting and finding it hard to move on and they get an idea of which ‘buttons’ to press.
Your post breakup access code can be made up of validation, Future Faking such as plans and claims of changing, and Fast Forwarding including seduction.
When they successfully gain access and are basically inside the perimeter of your heart and mind, your ex may also take it upon themselves to press The Reset Button which can be as drastic as restoring you to your ‘original settings’. Then you end up having to ‘relearn’ why you broke up with them in the first place and gather the strength to boot them out and change the code and lock your door.
Reading a comment from reader ‘Yoshizzle’ a couple of days ago, whose ex comes into the store where she works several times a week, I was struck by the almost brute force mentality of people who are trying to get you to ‘give in’ to them. Yoshizzle has no desire to be with him and is NC but has been unseated by his Jeckyll and Hyde behaviour – some days it’s like she doesn’t exist, other days he says hi, and sometimes he’s giving her filthy looks.
It’s the same when you have an ex that attempts to get their foot through your proverbial door by any means necessary…sending you dumb jokes, weather and sports commentary, asking if you’re friends yet, provoking you with information about them with a new person, sending nasty messages, sending apologetic messages, turning up, moaning to your friends, pitching themselves to your family, slagging you off knowing full well that you’ll hear it back and may confront them, making up lies, claiming that they’re ill, claiming that they’re dying, claiming someone else has died, claiming that they don’t think they can live anymore, saying that they have to get something from your place even though there’s nothing there, reneging on agreements to pay you back, claiming that they’ll leave their wife/husband/partner, claiming that they’re almost ready to leave, and the list goes on.
It’s natural to be affected by this onslaught, but as I explained to Yoshizzle, they’re being tactical to break down your defences so that you ‘open the door’. They don’t want you; they just want to win.
When you remember this, they have less power.
Don’t misread this bullshit and see it as flattering (it’s not, it’s boundary busting big style) or where it’s particularly unpleasant, as being reflective of who you are. You must recognise that when you have boundaries and/or try to move on, for some people, this makes them feel out of control so they have to pull this stuff to try to give themselves a sense of being in control of you. If you give in, with the control follows a loss of desire erection.
Imagine yourself as a door, that you’ve now closed and locked.
Your ex comes along and tries to open the door, but discovers that their key doesn’t work. They keep trying it but no result. They have a root around and pull out a selection of keys that they know used to work on you. Still nothing. They come back another day and try to jimmy the lock with hairpin. Another day they try with a credit card. Another day they kick at it furiously and you’re near crapping yourself and feeling you should cave in and unlock, but you hold your ground.
The next time, they try the gentle and polite approach with the door, maybe pressing the doorbell, and trying to look through the letterbox. The time after that they serenade you (reminds me of Adam Sandler in Happy Gilmore), or leave flowers or rat droppings (snigger) – let’s hope they don’t put poo through your letterbox… Then they get pissed off again that the door isn’t open so they try to take a hammer to it. Maybe they kick at it, thump the crap out of it, or stand a few feet away throwing rocks and hoping you’ll be intimidated. You’re scared and wondering why the hell they’re doing this. They then try a calmer approach to the door. Then get frustrated again. And lather, rinse, repeat.
What you don’t do is open the door. Especially when you’ve previously opened the door and got yourself hurt for your trouble. It’s like letting someone pull the same con on you more than once. Where’s your door chain?
Yes their antics are a pain in the arse but the best thing that you can do is recognise how unbelievably inappropriate their behaviour is and use it as further validation of why your relationship needs to be over.
Let me say it again – it’s not flattering; it’s effed up.
You don’t need this type of negative attention – not all attention is created equal.
Door bashing relies on either a receptive occupant, or the perception that the person will be receptive, and if they keep being met with a closed door, they’ll eventually fade away and find some other fallback option to pester. In the meantime, don’t let their antics own you and keep moving forward.
tired……I keep meaning to say this but forget…..I just love your name. Every time I see it on here I crack a smile. That is good. It reminds me of the “Casanovas” I’ve been involved with and “assanova” just seems more befitting.
MaryC
on 09/12/2011 at 11:52 pm
Thanks so much for keeping me grounded and keeping me NC. I’m happy to say my sadness over my ex has left me and I am once again on my journey.
RES
on 09/12/2011 at 11:52 pm
TOTALLY agree Nat!!
Part of the problem with women who routinely become involved with EUM (like myself— or my former self :-)) is that we have trouble establishing boundaries. Committing ourselves to NC is about SETTING BOUNDARIES, and once we can do that, we realize that “EUREKA, I HAVE CONTROL.” NC might not feel good (it’s hard, believe me, I remember), but it was (and IS — I still maintain NC with my AC and EUM) one of the most empowering experiences EVER. You begin to realize that YOU can break the cycle, and that YOU are at NO ONE’S mercy. Taking that step was the first investment that I ever made in MYSELF, and it changed me (and my life) forever!
grace
on 09/12/2011 at 11:56 pm
RES
That’s it exactly. It’s not about punishing yourself, it’s about taking control of your life. I say it and say it – the rewards are greater than you can envisage if you COMMIT to it.
We keep complaining about these men not committing, but we can be just as wishy-washy ourselves when it comes down to it.
ElleJae
on 10/12/2011 at 1:14 am
I truly believe it is DRIVING HIM CRAZY that I am not opening that “friendship door” to greet him!!! I’m in control & I’m sure he hates that. I kept telling him “NO” over & over again (when we broke up) to be his friend. His EGO is bruised & he’s not used to that either! ALL of his Ex’s remained friends with him – I did not!
And….. Even AFTER I told him he put a “dagger in my heart” (when we broke up) he keeps coming back over & over trying all kinds of tactics to see if I will open the “friendship door” to him. It’s amazing how selfish he is!!!
tired_of_assanova
on 10/12/2011 at 3:28 am
NC is great because at the other side you realise that you CAN survive the pain! You know what is at the other end.
It’s like being immunized against assclowns. First time around it will make you very very sick, second time around you zap them and recover much more quickly.
colororange
on 10/12/2011 at 11:49 pm
I agree setting boundaries is….hard, at least for me. Hell, I came out of the womb exposed to “EUMness” and Assclownery out the wazoo. And for someone to start talking about boundaries…I’m like what? How and what the…….
What if I set these boundaries and people don’t like me and leave? It’s not like I have a great deal of people to reach out to if some up and walk out. This made me put up with allll kinds of poor poor behavior. I’ve been in a 12-step program for years and they talk about boundaries. I am still working on figuring out what that means for me.
I wanted things to be different with the MM. I wanted to believe since I felt so different toward him and thought he did me, that somehow it’d work. Obviously it isn’t and won’t. I’m bordering Shameville now that I am seeing all the men who’ve strung me along one way or the other and puzzled at how I’m so “stringable.” I don’t call him because I know he will not answer (he’s told me he does not answer the phone). I do not text or email or reach out in any way because the last we “spoke” via text I told him I was in love with him. He kept saying he needed to think about what I’d said and “what God is trying to tell him now.” He “said” his feelings were meaningless and probably should not be discussed right now.” Then he went on to say what an “amazing woman I am.” At this point, I have no idea what I could possibly say to him? He has never said anything else so it feels like I would only be begging for his validation or attention or acknowledgment of what I’d professed if I contacted him now.
The old me would have sent some emails or even texts saying “did you get that,” “what do you think,” “how do you feel….” and so on. I’ve been down that road before many times over asking and pleading with a man. If I did, which I won’t, contact him it would be to say “Well, it’s apparent to me that you’ve thought and your decision is to ditch this and go on with your life. Was this ever anything to you at all? Did you even care? Why don’t you want to be with me? Why don’t you want me?” Yeah, saying all that sounds pretty pathetic.
grace
on 11/12/2011 at 1:50 pm
coloro
“good fences make good neighbours”
I get on better with people because I HAVE boundaries. When I didn’t have boundaries I was always worried that people would want too much from me, or I panicked about looking stupid. Yes, that’s a boundary issue – you’re overinvested in what others think of you. Your boundary has become fuzzy and you mix up what you think of yourself (badly) with what others think of you. I couldn’t just ENJOY people. It was too stressful for me.
At church today I chatted to a no. of people about: their medical problems, the economy, engineering, knitting, children, Amsterdam, cleaning. I just wouldn’t have done this when I had NO boundaries. I’d be too busy wondering what they were thinking. And, then, inevitably (it’s church after all), I get invited to THIS meeting and THAT meeting and was able to say no graciously and without feeling awkward. What I really hate is feeling forced to say yes and then either not turning up and feeling like an AC or turning up and feeling resentful. I hate it so much that I would go out of my way to avoid interaction and thereby avoid being asked. But get this, they did not mind me saying no at all. Because they’re not trying to use and abuse me.
All that rambling aside though, your lack of boundaries hasn’t netted you a satisfying relationship or made you happy, so try something different. You can’t keep banging your head against a wall and wondering why it’s hurting.
As for what God is trying to tell him:
“Thou shalt not commit adultery” comes to mind. There aren’t many (respectable) religions that condone extramarital shennanigans. Many non-religions people don’t like it either. And, I hope it never happens to you – you wouldn’t like it if someone did it to you. Keep the door closed.
Lo J
on 11/12/2011 at 5:25 pm
Awesome, Grace. My friend told me this one day, and I thought it was pretty neat, “What other people think about me is really none of my business.” I sometimes picture in my head a line or wall between me and another person (especially boundary busters) … literally picturing that “boundary”. Really is helpful for me.
colororange
on 11/12/2011 at 6:10 pm
Just For Today the door’s shut. I am living moment by moment just for today. God grant me……..
P.
on 09/12/2011 at 11:53 pm
I have been NC for over a year – or almost a year? Since I have sent a random text or two last January or February… What was confusing in the beginning was that after the breakup (on which, I thought, we both agreed), the EUM (oh, it almost hurts to call him that although all signs were there) spent three weeks to convince me to stay friends, and when I finally said yes, he never talked to me, or communicated with me in any way. Why would someone do that? I realize it does not matter for the actual results or lack thereof of our relationship, but it caused me pain and I would prefer to understand.
P.
they do it to make themselves feel good.
“I can’t be that bad a guy, P says she wants to be friends with me.”
Then, the thought just flies out of his empty head as he chases more women, or whatever it was he was doing that caused you to cut him off.
I hope you haven’t been thinking about this for nearly a year. Time to let it go now. I would add that you don’t want to be just friends or you wouldn’t be so upset about it. Even if he did turn up with genuine friendship, I’d still tell you to drop him because it’s too unequal.
You can be his friend when you no longer want to be his friend.
P.
on 10/12/2011 at 2:50 am
NML and Grace,
Thank you. I do not “miss” him anymore (put in quotation marks because I do acknowledge I miss some of the things we did together), but reading BR and the EU/AC concepts reminds me of the relationship; in a way I am probably seeking validation I did the right thing, because I was/am? conditioned to never put myself first, to please everyone, and I did not even know what boundaries were till last year. As in, I did not know the word or what it meant in people-sense.
Grace, you are right, and I was the one who did not want to be friends; and you are right, if it still “matters” then one should not even try.
Eternal Summer
on 10/12/2011 at 9:03 am
@NML & Grace-love!
yep. whenever i “long for his friendship” i have a convo with myself basically asking myself why i would even WANT to have a friend like him?!!!!! i wouldn’t even want a girl-friend like that!!!
so really, wanting a friendship is just me wanting to validate myself through him that OF COURSE i’m AWESOME because he still wants to be friends with me! ha! (he doesn’t-haven’t heard from him since i went NC & i actually count myself lucky i haven’t heard from him since every day i grow stronger from being with the reality of who he is and i don’t think i would have been able to stay NC if he happened upon a vulnerable moment with me….)
madam butterfly
on 10/12/2011 at 11:18 am
I refused to be a ‘friend’ when i was offered this when i was unceremoniously dumped after 3 years together, particularly when he was moving house and wanted me to help him clean up the place when he moved! The audacity of the Narcissist, so full of himself that he thought i was so into him i would become a ‘friend’ not a ‘lover’ and then be demoted even further to be a cleaner. I told him perhaps the woman he was cheating on me with would like to apply for the position of ‘scrubber’.
Its been well over a year since i have heard from him and as for any contact, he would never get back into my life!
JadeSesame
on 12/12/2011 at 4:55 pm
@madam butterfly,
Your post chilled me to the bones, for some reason. Partly because I always identified with the character of Cio-cio San and that once upon a time, barely 1.5 years ago, I happily volunteered to be scrubber/cleaner when my ex-EUM/Narcissist moved house. I went around the messy apartment with trash bags, picked up everything, and washed dirty dishes that had been sitting in the sink for months. Why? I guess I really wanted to be in his good books. Not anymore. Sometimes, I feel miffed/troubled when I think about how he *isn’t* even trying to break down my closed door but that is really just my ego speaking. I didn’t even get a chance to keep the proverbial door closed shut because he can’t even lift a finger, not even to sms anymore. Am much better these days on the whole.
Lynda from L
on 12/12/2011 at 7:21 pm
Re the mind bending audacity of these men….my ex told me when we were first together about a girlfriend who refused to come out and see him when he had broken an ankle. At the time I wondered at her lack of care.
I now know she had left him after another bout of extreme verbal abuse, was in fact his OW, who had been promised a life with him for years,had left him after it became finally clear it was sex and not much else on the table(he had left wife but still not commited to her..)she finally got wise and abdicated.
I now see this in the context of how he treated me, and the woman before me and sadly the woman yet to come. EUMinfinitum!! He’ll never change, thankfully I did.
debbie
on 09/12/2011 at 11:59 pm
My GF should read this.
She recently broke her NC with a man that she was involved with.
This man has put through all kinds of insanity…from cursing her out in the street, finding out he had a live in Gf and the most recently being gone for the past 6 months.
She wrote him(IDK why but it was a completely wrong move)telling him she had hoped everything was well with him and his family.
He responded with the typical “I know it’s been awhile”…. “I do miss you’!!!! statements.
He made other statements BUT they are all irrelevant because she broke the NC he now knows that he has COMPLETE access to her.
What she DOESN’T see it that regardless of his comments: “I still feel you deserve a better man than me”… etc… she REOPENED the door for him to walk right back through and he WILL eventually walk through it.
Doesn’t matter how many live in GF’s he has, how many statements he wrote eluding to the fact that he wants her to move on the bottom line is this…He’ll be back not only based on what I have already said BUT because he has her keys, he has clothes at her house and more importantly he stated in his email that he “Didn’t want any one else to have what he had(especially in the sex)department and that he “Could come by every now and then”.
All she did was opened the door for more PAIN and MISERY.
bubbles
on 09/12/2011 at 11:59 pm
“sending you dumb jokes, weather and sports commentary, asking if you’re friends yet, provoking you with information about them with a new person, sending nasty messages, sending apologetic messages, turning up, moaning to your friends, pitching themselves to your family, slagging you off knowing full well that you’ll hear it back and may confront them, making up lies, claiming that they’re ill, claiming that they’re dying, claiming someone else has died, claiming that they don’t think they can live anymore, saying that they have to get something from your place even though there’s nothing there, reneging on agreements to pay you back, claiming that they’ll leave their wife/husband/partner, claiming that they’re almost ready to leave, and the list goes on.” – my ex has hit about 50% of the above after we broke up.. He told me he was diagnosed with cerebral hemorrhage, he started befriending all my friends on fb, sending me apologetic messages, negative messages…
Stay strong girls!
grace
on 10/12/2011 at 12:18 am
bubbles
I think there’s something wrong with me – when I read “cerebral haemorrhage” I burst out laughing.
What will they think of next.
tired_of_assanova
on 10/12/2011 at 3:34 am
Sometimes I think that a lot of these AC’s and EUMs share common traits with Fallback girls and I kind of have trouble now distinguishing between the two.
I get that they’re both EUM- but what distinguishes EUM from FB other than both being unavailable?
grace
on 10/12/2011 at 12:46 pm
tired of assonova
The difference is, I think, that the FBG gets used and the EUM is more of the user (or vice versa, there are fallback girls and EU women). See above, where madam butterfly’s ex wanted her to come over and do the cleaning. Thankfully she said no, but a lot of us would have leapt at the chance! EUMs have no problem asking for cleaning, cookjng, sex, threesomes, extramarital sex, sexting, dirty pictures, friendship, a foothold in your life etc. FBGs have trouble expecting anything and think a text is a Precious Gift or that a MM using them for entertainment is valuable. We say we want love and commitment (or pretend that we don’t), then chase unavailable men and complain about what we get. As the Radiohead song goes “Girl, you do it to yourself, you do. And that’s what really hurts. You do it to yourself, just you, you and no-one else”.
FBGs suffer more. Please don’t mistake that for love. Yes, I have suffered and hurt for those I genuinely love – when my nieces get sick, or when The Dog died (I sure did love that dog. I’d trade a lifetime with any of the exes for just one more day with The Dog) but it’s a different kind of hurt. And it’s heart it feels right and good and normal. Whereas the FBG drama is just frustrating, self-hating, anxiety-inducing, depression-causing, self-esteem shattering horror. Don’t do it to yourself!
Talking about The Dog, I had to take him down as my profile pic on a website as I couldn’t bear to keep seeing him. I still love him and I don’t forget him but why torture myself?
Tired, without doing chapter and verse as there is a whole book on it and lots of posts – look up for instance about copilotted relationships.
One is a driver, one is a passenger.
Mr Unavailable (or Miss) is the always the driver, the one with the more powerful role.
The Fallback Girl (or guy) is the passenger. They may think they start out as a driver but at some point, there was a bait and switch. You can’t be defaulted to or fallen back on if you’re not a passenger.
Each party behaves in similar ways because you’re both Unavailable, but nonetheless *differently*. This is determined by the two roles which creates a dynamic where you each feed into the others behaviour.
Eg he likes to keep his foot in the door and you like to leave it open.
Tulipa
on 11/12/2011 at 3:40 am
Tierd, I was thinking the same thing, when I read the post and saw the picture of Johnny I thought that was me. I seem to be one who tries his locks, rather than vice versa. When I read some of the articles I see myself as the assclown or euw and can’t distinguish it from being the fallback girl. Maybe they are interchangeable.
I couldn’t agree more, Grace, I do it to myself or rather did it to myself. I’m investing in a lock.
lilylee
on 11/12/2011 at 5:31 pm
Bubbles,
That man needs to get a life…you’re well shot of him
Natasha
on 10/12/2011 at 12:29 am
First of all, that “Heeeeere’s Johnny!” picture made me snort-laugh so hard! Some of these guys wind up looking totally deranged, so it was perfect. You really can set your watch by some of them. My ex used to pop up at mid-Spring, mid-Summer and then the full court press came at some point between Halloween and Thanksgiving. This Turkey Day was such a treat, because I got one text from him a few weeks before, ignored it and then that was it! He got the message, “Access revoked, son.” It’s really funny, because the message was like, “What’s been going on in your life?” He doesn’t know my code anymore, that’s for sure. I really feel like I’ve communicated loud and clear that I’m no longer an option and it’s a REALLY great feeling 🙂
colororange
on 10/12/2011 at 12:49 am
Good for you Natasha. Glad to hear.
Lo J
on 10/12/2011 at 1:13 am
The BIG BAD WOLF walks away with his tail between his legs … we finally see him for the dirty (weenie) dog he is. Actually pretty pathetic. Not quite as glamorous as we once thought, huh?? And gets less scary as time goes on. Ahhh … isn’t clarity a wonderful thing? Keep the door shut.
Elle
on 10/12/2011 at 10:02 am
Yay Natasha!
Natasha
on 10/12/2011 at 5:29 pm
Thank you ladies! 🙂 It took just about a whole year for the message to get through, but it was so worth it. If I hadn’t found BR, I’d either be on year SIX of being this guy’s option or I’d have taken him up on his offer to be “friends”. Yick. Thank you again for the good wishes! *Big Hugs*
j.
on 10/12/2011 at 12:42 am
Hello and thank you, natalie!! this post could not have come at a more appropriate time for me, as i’ve just broken up with my fiance and it’s been very tough to deal with. he was harassing me via emails and calls. at first i answered b/c i was so annoyed, then i stopped after a barrage of angry drunk emails from him, followed up by a, you guessed it, sappy, dramatic email. and no, i kept the door shut. it’s all very painful, but, i’m keeping the door locked.
i am so thankful that this site exists b/c it’s helped me realize a lot about myself and behaviors of the Ex. i enjoy the posts and the comments too, which are also insightful.
Finallydidit
on 10/12/2011 at 12:42 am
After having opened my door twice and being greeted with the same BS, when he came a knocking for the third time he found the door locked, key thrown out and if he listened closely he would have heard me singing that great Fats Domino song “I hear you knocking but you can’t come in. I hear you knocking, go back where you’ve been. You better go back to your used to be cause you and your love ain’t no good for me”. You send a stong message with NC without sending a message at all. Taking it one day at a time and actually starting to feel good. Who would have guessed! Strength to all.
ElleJae
on 10/12/2011 at 12:58 am
What if my EUM breaks the “No Contact”, after 1-year & buys me a gift saying “Happy Holidays, I hope you & your family are doing well”??? My first thought is to return it, sending a note saying “no contact means no contact & giving a gift is NOT appropriate & he should respect my wishes — A “kind” gesture is not “kind” from an ex-boyfriend who dumped you”. He never gave me a Christmas the 5 yrs we dated!!! Really pi**es me off he gives me a cool present now (How I see it – to try to Win me over again).
Sunshine
on 10/12/2011 at 1:43 pm
Send it back with no note and no other communication. That will send a stronger message than an explanation.
dawn
on 10/12/2011 at 5:28 pm
IMHO, donate it, or re-gift it to someone else, or keep it for yourself, whatever. I wouldn’t send it back. Sending it back still gives them what they wanted from you in the first place, your attention. That’s what they crave. Contact from you, even if it’s in a negative form, (for example telling them to get lost, or returning a present with no response, or telling them, thanks, but no thanks, or cursing them out and telling them what a jerk they are) to them it’s still an ego stroke, a reward, a score. Sick, I know, but it’s how these people are. Any contact or response from us no matter if it’s negative or positive they like it. SO the best thing we can do is cut off their “supply” totally and completely and ignore, ignore, ignore. Unless they start stalking you then it’s time to take action.
Don’t feel as though you have to be a “nice girl” and respond to their bids for friendship or to catch up with what you’ve been doing with your life. Never forget that they aren’t really interested in YOU, they are only looking to see if they can get their supply of attention back. You know how easily you can get caught up in all their bullsh*t and start falling for the old tricks they used to use to reel you back in. Stop and think, is this good for me? Remember he really doesn’t have your best interests in mind, if he did he would just leave you alone. He knows why the relationship ended, he knows you don’t want to hear from him, and why you haven’t contacted him. The relationship was broken, that’s why they call it a break up. Remember you teach people how they can treat you. If you have soft boundaries, people who mean you harm will take advantage of that. I once heard the saying that people who want to hurt me will only be able to if I give them permission to. Don’t give someone that you know from their behavior towards you anymore access to you. Once you’ve broken up with them for whatever reasons don’t be foolish thinking that they have some how changed into the man you needed them to be. Haven’t we already given them chance after chance? Be good to yourself, because they certainly aren’t. Go over your list of reasons why you broke up in the first place so you don’t get to thinking all romantic and fairy tale, fantasy land thoughts.
dawn
on 10/12/2011 at 5:40 pm
… me are the ones that wanted sex. Not because they really loved me, had changed and were now able be in a mutually committed relationship. This isn’t a fairytale hollywood movie, this is real life. And the sooner we learn that truth, and accept it, the better off we will be. I’ve learned so much here about unhealthy relationship habits that I have and I am learning to change that. Better late then never right? Hang in there ladies, we can do it. We CAN and ARE doing what’s best for US.
Sushi
on 15/12/2011 at 8:10 am
Words of wisdom, Dawn. You summed up my problem- soft boundaries. Couldn`t understand as I thought I always had boundaries and people violating them made me miserable, but I just couldn`t defend them for the fear of being not nice or understanding enough or too needy or unreasonable. So I ended up overstepping my boundaries with them. Then feeling guilty and angry at myself, while the EUms pull whatever stunts they want. My first reaction to the gift dilemma was to send it back with no explanation, but you are right, it`s still a reaction. I don`t know when I will finally get rid of this automatic reaction to do right by people, rather than doing right by myself.
molly
on 10/12/2011 at 6:51 pm
I agree with dawn. You should not acknowledge ANYTHING they try to get your attention, including giving you gifts!
Nobody put a gun to their head to send you something and spend their money on you. You don’t owe them an explanation, and in fact trying to explain “no contact” to them is you BREAKING CONTACT. Don’t do it.
Unless the gift is something you actually could use or want, I’d give it away, donate it, or toss it in the trash, and stay NC.
I received a postcard from my former EUM last summer after months of NC. I recognized his writing on the postcard and I didn’t even bother reading it. In fact, that postcard never made it out of the Post Office after I found it in my P.O. box – I tossed it in the trash before I left the building!
Allison
on 10/12/2011 at 7:27 pm
Elle,
I agree! Do not send the gift back. Contact is contact!
Remain in NC. He will eventually get the message.
dawn
on 11/12/2011 at 3:54 am
@ Elle Jae
BTW, congrats on not falling for his ploy 🙂
Littleme321
on 10/12/2011 at 1:01 am
What a great day for me to read this ! Just as I was feeling lonely and thinking maybe I should break my no contact rule, this reminded me why I shouldn’t. It’s not a game of tug o war if the other person isnt pulling. Thanks you !
Oriana
on 10/12/2011 at 1:29 am
“Your ex comes along and tries to open the door, but discovers that their key doesn’t work. They keep trying it but no result. They have a root around and pull out a selection of keys that they know used to work on you. Still nothing. They come back another day and try to jimmy the lock with hairpin. Another day they try with a credit card. Another day they kick at it furiously and you’re near crapping yourself and feeling you should cave in and unlock, but you hold your ground.”
About 30 yrs. ago or so, I read a book (can’t remember the title) which explains how people who know you, or at least are familiar with what buttons to push to get whatever, will try the usual buttons, and when that doesn’t work, they try new buttons, or they escalate the intensity of the usual buttons. One day they’re sweet, the next day they have tickets to a show you would love, when that doesn’t work they start an argument, etc. etc.
What was brilliant about the book: the tactic to use if you have to deal with the person, is to not show any emotional reaction whatsoever. Not anger, not sadness, not frustration, not happiness, not disgust, nada, nothing. A total neutral emotional state. When the person is not getting any reaction from you whatsoever, you can sit back and watch them try everything to get one from you. Basically you’re detaching yourself from REACTING in any way, and as a result you can objectively watch them try every trick in the book to get one from you. You’re job is to simply sit back and pay attention to how they are trying to push your buttons and what tactics they’re using. If they say something that upsets you, stand back and pay attention to the feeling of being upset, realize that is their goal, but don’t feed them anything.
When everything they do fails, in most cases they’ll realize what they’re doing, because in every attempted interaction with you, they’re the only one acting/reacting – it becomes blatantly obvious. I tried this years ago when breaking up from a 2 yr. relationship, and my ex tried everything, until he got to the point where he exploded. I still didn’t react. An hr. later he called and apologized and left me alone after that.
(We are often in some way doing the same thing when we try to get a reaction from an EU…)
NC is basically achieving same thing, without having to expend any unnecessary energy.
yoshizzle
on 10/12/2011 at 8:41 am
WOW ok, so i’m doing the right thing. It FELT right. Just to not show any interest whatsoever. Mostly cuz, I don’t HAVE any interest lol… i suppose if nothing from attempted chit chat to ignoring to glaring to complaining…doesn’t get anything but businesslike, professional and utterly disinterested-beyond-that response, at SOME POINT he’s going to have to see that he’s being a ‘tard. thx!
Oriana
on 10/12/2011 at 11:19 am
yoshizzle I personally think you’re doing the right thing. The point is not to engage in the power struggle, the ego, or whatever it is…. The second there is engagement, it paves the way for them not having the responsibility of seeing themselves clearly. If you see an escalation in his tactics, stay calm, let him expose himself on his own.
jennynic
on 10/12/2011 at 1:36 am
Going and staying NC with the last two ex’s has been the best thing I’ve done. One was an AC , the other an EUM, both have hurt me and didn’t treat me with respect, one was abusive. Now I treat ME with respect and won’t respond to any of their attempts to be in contact. What’s the point in signing up for more bullshit, really? Yeah, it was hard at first but it was the only way to get clarity and not lose my mind an d it worked! Talking to them only ripped off the scab and made me feel like shit. Now I’m in control of this thing called my life and they have no power or choices when it comes to me. It’s been a year and a half NC from the AC…..I’ve moved on and no longer think about it. The EUM breakup is fresher and it still bothers me to see him around so I avoid him. One day after the breakup I wrote ” I need to let you go” in the sand and walked away knowing the tide would wash it away during the night. Now my feelings for him are drifting out to sea, farther from me each day and disappearing.
I love that picture of Jack Nicholson. I laughed out loud when I saw that. It’s the perfect image to represent these clowns who are out of control in attempt to gain control.
CoffeeCat
on 10/12/2011 at 1:43 am
I wish I had seen this post two weeks ago! My ex-AC pulled out all the sob stories for me, even apologized, but I sit here and think, what an AC. LOL I am sad that I broke 4 months of NC, but in some ways, going back for two weeks of back and forth emails and a couple phone calls, and me getting burned (not that he hurt me more, but my rose colored, revisionist history glasses came off), I am very confident now that this door has been closed forever, the access code changed, and the AC App has been removed.
The only question I have is why I fell for the crap in the first place. I cannot fathom why.
molly
on 10/12/2011 at 9:47 pm
That’s the “suck it and see” ending. You went back either thinking things would be different, or your hard-wiring simply fell back into place because you had not conditioned yourself and reprogrammed your neurocognitive responses long enough to NOT CARE and AVOID HIM.
Trust me – enough time goes by and you really won’t give a fig about them anymore.
I subscribe to the neurocognitive approach – I think stopping contact and “not caring” any longer is kind of a combination of reprogramming our brains AND psychologically just gritting our teeth and white knuckling it for a while.
Basically, it has to become a HABIT to not have contact. That takes time – your brain has to have different processes going on for you to not care anymore about them.
Oriana
on 10/12/2011 at 1:52 am
The way I did neutral emotion was by saying “that’s nice”, “uh huh” or nothing. You have to be prepared for a major escalation in tactics from them, it can be really tough to not react, just like it’s tough to do NC.
Sunny
on 10/12/2011 at 2:03 am
Thank You Natalie! this article was perfect timing for me,my EX attempted to contact me after over a year of NC, obviously the motives are selfish, as the contents in his letter only include what they wanted to know, expect and were asking about me…and there were no apologies or genuineness anywhere in the content of the message.
NC was the best decision and only way to move on from people who just are not healthy people to have relationship with. It’s good to know that after a full year of NC the feelings are not as strong, and it’s much easier to let this dysfunctional relationship leave my mind, andf soon become a distant memory.
Jess
on 10/12/2011 at 2:06 am
Amazing, that’s you! Just two days ago my ex -lover ( he broke-up with me and I nearly dies of a broken heart) phoned me from South America, of all places, that is where he lives once again. I hadn’t heard from him for over a month and thought he had gotten a new girl, or was satisfied with whatever else he may have gotten himself into. It was a little upsetting to think these thoughts, but I knew in the long run it was a better option than me dropping any interest hints by e-mail or texting (if he can even receive them there? And I was very good and did NOTHING…and pop, he called and left a message for me to call him back, he repeated the number and his request 2 times ( he is spanish so I guess he thought I wouldn’t understand the first time. He is also a narcissist. His timing has always been impeccable.
Also, love the identification with the keys that open us up to them, how very right you are, good description.
The really amazing thing is every time I even think of going there to visit and being with him I start to feel a bit ill and remember all the horribleness I let myself be put through with him. The price was too high. And I am not calling him back. Thank you for helping me once again.
Always on time Natalie.
Jess
Magnolia
on 10/12/2011 at 2:21 am
A great reminder of why I kept the door shut. I made high drama out of the AC’s attempts to contact me at the time; the attention flattered me more than bothered me and I guess being all, “Can you BELIEVE what this guy is doing?” felt good. If he were still at it, yeah, I’d probably still enjoy it but lucky for me he has stopped. Lucky for me because I’d just be down on his level, enjoying the feeling that I’m the one in control and he is pining for me.
I’m glad he pursued me for a bit, mainly because the behaviour was so clearly inappropriate and totally validated my decision to break it off. I’m glad when he showed up at my work I said no more than exactly four words: You. Should. Go. Now. And I’m glad he respected that because I needed time to get over not just him, but to get over myself.
I had a taste for inappropriate attention. As long as I’m letting some guy feed me “junk food” attention, all zingy chemical flavour and no nutritional value, I’m letting my emotional arteries get all clogged up.
I needed to go on the “junk attention” (and BS) diet. I am happy that after so many months of putting up with AC behaviour that I can congratulate myself for having behaved in my own best interest after the breakup. Putting a lock on the door to me felt like a real gesture in saying “I value myself!”
So months later, when attached guy starts giving me all kinds of focussed attention, I recognized it for what it was. He was putting on the charm, the “I-value-you” attention. What he wasn’t prepared for was me actually valuing myself enough already, thank you, and intimate questions from a married guy didn’t feel like the “special” attention he meant it to. In fact, it was kind of insulting.
Elle
on 10/12/2011 at 9:47 am
Neither the AC nor recent Frosty-man ever tried to contact me after I said, directly to the former, indirectly to the latter, that I did not want to be pals. I have to say, Mags, I too would have probably relished in the attempts, because, as it was, I had to accept that they weren’t really as keen on me/us as I had thought. Frosty did call a week later. Admittedly, he essentially blew more snow in my face, telling me all this stuff about how he wanted his autonomy, how I was a decent person, but not the right woman for him. So, I’ve never had the pine! Just more ‘It’s right and good that this is done!’ But, I do know that’s a good thing. It would mean the possibility of another round with people who harmed me, quite deeply and traumatically in one case. And, in more generous moods, I can see them as leaving me alone as respectful and loving in a way. I love this idea of emotional arteries.
grace
on 10/12/2011 at 12:56 pm
Elle
I’m with you. Much as I think the returning childhood sweetheart/MM was a bit/lot of an ass, he did have the decency to leave me alone when I finally shut the door in his face. It doesn’t make me feel less attractive or worthy that he’s given up. Maybe I’m deluded but I think. “At least he had that little bit of respect for me”. I wish him well, I really do, he has a little girl and what seems to be a lovely wife.
I can wish him well because he’s not hammering down my door!
NC is a wonderful thing.
blueberry girl
on 11/12/2011 at 2:24 pm
I agree, Grace. At first I was insulted and pissed that the MM didn’t attempt to contact me after our split, but then I realized that he respected me enough to leave me alone~a shard of decent behavior. He’s still an ass but I’m grateful that I never had a Jack Nicholson moment.
Izzybell
on 11/12/2011 at 4:55 pm
ditto– whenever I start wondering “why has he never tried to contact me, to reconnect, to tell me he’s sorted through all his stuff and is ready to be in a relationship” I realize a) because he isn’t and b) because I told him not to! and increasingly c) because we’ve both moved on and it would be awkward.
It’s like wondering “why hasn’t he disregarded my needs yet again to call/text/email me even though I made it clear that I don’t want him to and I am done putting his priorities/desires/problems before my own?”. Truth is, the ball is not in his court- I took it back a long time ago and I’m mostly just glad that he’s followed directions and respected my wishes.
Natasha
on 12/12/2011 at 1:34 am
Ladies, the irony of this is my last ex, the one who chased me down the longest and most persistently….didn’t like me. I mean literally did not like me and had no desire to be in a relationship with me. Once I got wise to that, believe me, it stopped being flattering!
dawn
on 10/12/2011 at 5:50 pm
“So months later, when attached guy starts giving me all kinds of focussed attention, I recognized it for what it was. He was putting on the charm, the “I-value-you” attention. What he wasn’t prepared for was me actually valuing myself enough already, thank you, and intimate questions from a married guy didn’t feel like the “special” attention he meant it to. In fact, it was kind of insulting.”
Thanks Mags for sharing that story. It is proof positive that we CAN change our unhealthy ways of thinking into healthy ones. I am so thrilled for you that you’ve turned this corner! Inspiring.
colororange
on 11/12/2011 at 1:10 pm
Magnolia,
“I had a taste for inappropriate attention. As long as I’m letting some guy feed me “junk food” attention, all zingy chemical flavour and no nutritional value, I’m letting my emotional arteries get all clogged up.”
I can relate. Any and all kinds of attention would do. I used to date a guy that would spend his time outside with his buddies while I was there. I literally laid in his bed for hours until he would come in and pay me a bit of attention. What I should’ve done was told him obviously he’s too busy to spend time so I’m going to make myself useful elsewhere. But I hung around because I was so starved and desperate for that crumb.
Admittedly I am scared though. If I go walking around thinking (and this feels arrogant) I’m worth positive and genuine and consistent attention from a mate, then am I building myself up for letdown? Am I being unrealistic? I’m not asking a man to put me on a pedestal. I am afraid of getting hurt.
Magnolia
on 11/12/2011 at 8:53 pm
ColorO,
This song, when I first heard it, sounds like a conversation between an FB girl and an EUM, and your post reminded me of it. It’s been a long time since I hung out in some guy’s room waiting for him to come to bed, but I did do it. Thankfully we’re far from that.
“Girl, wait on me”?!!!??? Hell to the no. Someone needs to point Lily Allen to Baggage Reclaim!
As to the attention thing, I don’t think any decent guy should really want to give me too much of the kind of validating, it’s-ok-little-girl-you’re-safe vibe that I was looking for (and to be fair, that our culture encourages women to seek out). So I have stopped expecting to get the right amount of the wrong kind of attention.
I figure that as I grow, I’ll enjoy better quality attention from my relationships. More equal, more mutually admiring and respectful. So, like a very fine quality chocolate, I don’t think I’ll need as much of it to feel satisfied.
You can never get enough of what you don’t really need.
Laurie
on 10/12/2011 at 2:56 am
Sorry, I know this is a bit off topic, but I’d really appreciate some feedback.
I’ll try to make it as relevant as possible! Does the principle of no contact apply when you are in a new relationship with someone else? How much contact with your ex’s is appropriate then? How much contact with friends of the opposite sex is appropriate? And specifically, would you feel comfortable if your bf met up with other girls (including ex-girlfriends) one-on-one for coffee, dinner, etc?
Groundhog Day
on 10/12/2011 at 11:01 am
Hi Laurie
I dont know about other people, and call me old fashioned but i dont think its right for men and women to meet up alone, friends or otherwise, i wouldnt feel comfortable if my fella was meeting up with other women one on one for coffee or anything else! and i wouldnt do it out of respect… other people may have different views but thats just my take on it, its not about trust its just not nice… hope that helps!
x
MaryC
on 10/12/2011 at 12:58 pm
Laurie I guess I’m different but have always found it strange that two people of the opposite sex can’t be friends and go for coffee/dinner or whatever without the other’s GF/BF going off the deep end. I have a co-worker of 15yrs who was told by his GF of 2yrs he can’t speak to me unless its work related. HOW CHILDISH.
I told him I would respect her wishes since she’s the GF and good luck with that relationship. I predict her next target will be his guy friends.
A
on 10/12/2011 at 3:14 pm
The only time I’ve had a problem with this is if the guy is clearly a player and has some weird flirtatious relationship with tons of women in his life. If it’s a platonic friend who has always just been a friend and there’s nothing “off” about it, I don’t see the problem. With an ex it may bother me…..I suppose it would depend on how long they have been apart and what the dynamic is.
I have guy friends who have always been and will always just be friends, and we meet up for coffee or a bite to eat. Sometimes significant others come along, sometimes not.
grace
on 10/12/2011 at 3:22 pm
Laurie
It’s up to you to decide what’s acceptable to you.
I sit somewhere between Groundhog and MaryC.
I think it’s fine to chat with work colleagues and even joke about in the office, in public. I’ve noticed it at work. One of the guys is always larking about with the girls en masse. But one-to-one he keeps it strictly professional. It’s okay to go out as a group. Mid-morning coffee is okay one-to-one. Dinner is where I start to feel uncomfortable – the wine, the dark, the candles, the oysters, the dessert sharing! When I had a married colleague that I got on with extremely well and found very attractive (okay, I was in love with him), we never spent any time alone together except on his last day at work when we went out to get cakes for the office. We just knew not do it.
So there is no absolute right or wrong. But it’s definitely too much if they’re going on holiday together and sharing a sleeping bag! And yes, I have heard of this scenario
tired_of_assanova
on 10/12/2011 at 9:56 pm
Personally I would say ZERO contact. As a fallback I think 10/20/50/80% contact or whatever is still contact. I can only feel safe with 0% contact because that guarantees an outcome. Best to read NML’s blog post on the woman at the party draping herself over dot dot dot man as an example.
I also find contact with ex dates a bit off. Thoughts circle in your mind and you go through the what-ifs. So I cut them off for my own sake.
I think it is OK for a partner to meet up with friends/coffee etc; they’re their own person and I’d feel caged and controlled if I couldn’t have something as simple as a coffee or see friends.
On the other hand you do wonder if it is “just” coffee. Or is it a date…? So on this one I’m not sure.
Natasha
on 10/12/2011 at 11:17 pm
” As a fallback I think 10/20/50/80% contact or whatever is still contact. I can only feel safe with 0% contact because that guarantees an outcome. ”
YUP! So well said. 0% contact is a guarantee of 0% hurt.
molly
on 10/12/2011 at 10:40 pm
It depends on the intent.
I think it mostly has to do with the level of trust between the two of you. With the EUM guy, I didn’t trust him as far as I could spit! I suspect any women he met or already knew he was trying to get into the sack, and he confirmed those suspicions when he simply acknowledged that he was making clear attempts to date other women. !!
But I’ve been in relationships with guys who have had women friends (platonic) for years and I would never have insisted that they not see those women. Because those were important relationships for them.
Just like I have male platonic friends and I don’t want anybody I date having a meltdown because I stay in contact with them – whether that be phone calls, dinners, movies, whatever. I have to say with my platonic men friends, I rarely do the “coffee” thing because we always end up getting together in the evening. Mostly we do dinner, sometimes a movie and then get a drink after to talk, or go see a jazz show together. Whatever works for both of us.
The bottom line is you need your own life and so does your partner.
I dated a guy once who met a woman while rock-climbing (sorry, that’s just not a sport I’m into but he loved it). He met her AFTER we had been dating for many months. They ended up having a friendship doing rock-climbing things together, either the two of them alone or in rock-climbing groups. Why should I care? It’s not like I was going to join him for his rock-climbing stuff. But then again we had a deep level of trust, we both had agreed to monogamy and I trusted him. I met her on several occasions, she attended parties with us at my place, etc. It was a friendship that was important to him.
I think you would need to examine why it bothers you for your partner to have opposite-sex friendships and platonic relationships. You aren’t going to be everything to your partner, and they shouldn’t be everything to you.
Also, your partner should be introducing you to his friends, male AND female. That is one indication that you are important to him and if there is nothing going on, he shouldn’t be uncomfortable with you meeting them.
Natasha
on 10/12/2011 at 11:22 pm
Laurie, since so much of it is situational as the other ladies have said, I’d say if something is making you uncomfortable it’s an issue. If it’s something that they are doing, as Nat says, you’ll have “external evidence” that something isn’t right. If something is making you insecure when there’s really nothing to worry about, there won’t be any external evidence. I loved this article and I think you’ll really find it helpful:
Thanks ladies! Grace, I really appreciate what you said about it ultimately being my decision as to what I find acceptable. That was so empowering to me. I just need to find a guy who believes the same way I do—if they exist! I think I feel as you do, grace, about the amount of appropriate contact. Maybe I lean a bit towards Groundhog Day.
Of course I want my bf to have a life outside of me! And I want him to have friends (both male and female) and hobbies that he engages with regularly. I just really feel uncomfortable with my bf meeting up one-on-one with another girl—especially an ex. For me, it is primarily a matter of respect.
I’ve never really had this issue before my current ex. He had tons of female friends and exes that he met up with one-on-one. It made me uncomfortable. When I found out that he had lied to me repeatedly about using the online video subscription I had bought him to watch pornos ( He told me he would have to be some kind of asshole to use the gift I had given him in that way) I became VERY uncomfortable with these interactions. Of course, guys that watch porn don’t necessarily cheat on their girlfriends, but it made it very difficult for me to trust him after all the lies about it. At that point, the one-on-one interactions became a trust as well as a respect issue.
Sometimes I worry that my standards or values are unreasonable or unrealistic. Then I get involved with guys who I know don’t necessarily share my ideals, but I either try to compromise or get them to change. Obviously, that’s not working out so well for me! I just wanted to make sure that I’m not some nut with crazy expectations, but it seems like there are at least of couple of you who feel like I do. Hopefully that means there are guys out there who feel similarly.
Laurie, I don’t think you see something that’s a recurrent theme with you – micromanaging.
The truth is, how we feel about our partner meeting up with their ex says really more about us than it does about them, although it does say something about them too, even if it’s not what you intend.
The boyf met up with his ex a couple of months after we started going out. They were genuine friends and their relationship had been over for some time – he had no desire to go back. It’s not that I wasn’t like “Jaysus, he’s meeting up with his ex and what if he changes his mind” because it’s only human to have those thoughts. Briefly. Then I recognised that if someone is going to get back with their ex or communicate with them, they’ll do it no matter how much we try to block all avenues. We were having a great time – if she could swing him in the other direction over a meeting, then he was never truly in it in the first place. I recognised though that me laying down the law on him and putting my insecurities out there, would have far more impact than him meeting up with her. I had to trust that he was who he said he was and who I’d learned he was up until that point.
I have male friends and the boyf has female friends. We occasionally meet up with them individually and sometimes they come to things that we’re having like parties. The boyf occasionally speaks to another ex of Google Talk. They’ve known each other since they were children and in fact, she was The Woman Before Me. I couldn’t give a rats. She has her own husband and child now but I also know that if the boyf were around a woman that was trying to hit on him, he’d shut it down – not entertain it. Another friend of ours, her ex comes out to her birthday parties and sometimes she goes for a drink with him after work.
What are you trying to do? Own the man’s past.
Let me say it to you again Laurie – if these are your values, live by them but I would also prioritise. You cannot control everything. It’s only been a hot minute since you were talking about the last guy – how the hell have you found the time to start in on this new one?
What I do agree with though is what Grace and a few others said – when I was single, I was friends with quite a few guys, particularly through work and even though I was dumb enough to be with the guy who had the girlfriend, outside of that, I didn’t make a point of going out with married men on my own, especially if I picked up on The Vibe or if they wanted to Talk About Their Problems.
Sushi
on 12/12/2011 at 12:14 pm
Hi Laurie,
I think the vibe you pick up on is the most important as the situations are so varied and the crucial thing is to listen to yourself, not other people.You will find as Natalie says that the mans behaviour to date will colour your gut reactions greatly.
When I met my last ex, within a month he lied to me and poured on the bullshit thickly to cover up. Then an issue of him meeting up with his ex surfaced. She was in a circle of his pub friends and a neighbour, they finished their relationship six months prior to us meeting. Their relationship was a secret. According to him she was crazy, boring and not capable of a real realtionship, told him she only wanted sex. She also complained that theirs was never a real relationship but the booty call. Confusing or what? After we met they, I quote; met for drinks at his house till 2.30 am, he walked her home and pushed her through her door -she got amorous and was drunk. I suspect if this was Natalie`s boyf, he would not be seeing this woman again. But my ex took her for an early breakfast on a Saturday morning.Huh? She would pop in at 10 pm to ask him out for a drink, only when I was not around. She knew when I would be visiting for the first time at his place, because he told her !!! and actually stood in her front garden watching me turn up- I wish I knew it was her! and was still there an hour an a half later watching us leave to go to dinner. She texted him to find out how our weekend went as soon as my car was gone. He took me everywhere BUT the pub where she was hanging out which was his home away from home. I told him this was not for me, it was making me feel insecure,my gut screaming to run. He was upset for me not trusting him in a very dramatic way – was ready to leave me because I had trust issues. Yes, I absolutely did have a problem with the two of them meeting up alone and if a man behaved that way again I would have trust issues again. Actually, I wouldn`t because I would opt out by the “lies and bullshit” stage.
Another scenario; Man I started to see told me he was in a middle of a divorce and he was going to see ex ( still wife) to talk. I was a bit uncomfortable but thought will wait and see. In a very short space of time he introduced us and I COULD SEE that there was no problem whatsoever. We continued meeting socially with herboyfriend and for work. Nice and normal and drama free.
When there is nothing to make you feel insecure you will not feel the need to ask anyone for an opinion. You will feel fine. Don`t worry that you will make a mistake, just trust yourself
…
Laurie
on 12/12/2011 at 4:08 pm
Thanks, Natalie.
There isn’t a new guy–I was talking about my ex. I really only became uneasy about his relationships with other women when he lied to me about the porn. It destroyed my trust in him, and I tried to *control* him to ease my doubts. I realize how ridiculous that was now. I did try to micromanage him, and I don’t want to do that in future relationships.
I guess I’m feeling so incredibly hurt by his rejection, and I’m trying to come up with reasons why he wasn’t ‘The One’ to assuage my pain: volatile temper, telling lies, going out with other women, etc. In actuality, he was a good, but flawed man, and it hurts to think that I drove him away from me with my trust issues, trying to micromanage, etc. I know he really loved me, and it kills me to think I destroyed that. I want him back so much, and the only way I can stop this ache is trying to convince myself that he wasn’t that great after all.
Laurie, I would be careful of trying to micromanage the breakup… You, like a lot of people who have control issues, tend to be all or nothing. You’re either elevated or taking all the blame. You’re not the only person in the relationship, nor can you say with all of the various issues that were present that you are responsible for the breakup. That’s just too arrogant – at least dignify the man with the responsibility of his part in the relationship. He had no job, no money, a penchant for barefaced lies, a porn habit, a temper, went out with other women, and did a bait and switch on you after he was caught out on a lie and you called off the engagement. If he’d had no job and no money but didn’t do all the other stuff, this would be a very different conversation.
You keep making him The Man With No Responsibility…Even For The Problems In His Own Relationship
You don’t need to vilify the man – this isn’t about him being a good or bad person. I hate to break it to you – you are a person with flaws also. You don’t get to judge this guy – you just have to judge your situation respectfully and realistically. You are disrespecting this man and putting yourself on a pedestal *again* if you hog up the lions share of the blame and act like if only you had been the one to change your behaviour, he wouldn’t have done what he was already predisposed to do. Nobody held a gun to his head and made him lie. He also could have looked at porn and never had any issues with other women, or had a bad temper. The point is though, he did.
Natasha
on 12/12/2011 at 8:18 pm
Laurie, a man with a volatile temper isn’t The One – not even close! You can’t push someone into acting like that. I also think it was really disrespectful that he knew you had a problem with him watching porn and used a subscription that you bought him to watch it. Personally, I could care less if someone I’m dating watches porn on their own time and even I think that’s rude. I think the bottom line here is that if you weren’t happy, he wasn’t The One. Hope this helps and you are feeling better soon! *Big Hugs*
Tasha
on 10/12/2011 at 3:47 am
My ex narc and father of my baby tried a bunch of things to gain access to me. They were all lame…none of it was anywhere CLOSE to making a real effort to get me back. He wrote me a poem…about how everything was my fault but he could forgive me if only I could forget the past, and let him fulfill his dream (to have two more babies). If I could just let him walk back into my life no questions asked after kicking me out with a 5 month old baby on top of two years of covert emotional abuse, then everything would be PEACHY. He asked me repeatedly to go for a walk. I went once…and he talked about himself…did not even ask me how I was doing even though he had shredded my soul just months before. He used to exaggerate the baby being sick…and ask me to go to the hospital with him…but when I said yes…he’d go without me. Then he’d forget the baby’s prescription. Most recently, he wanted to buy us a family gym membership. He has a new girlfriend…and so I could not comprehend why he wanted to do this. After trying to get at me by being all nicey nice, he is now trying the negative route. He harasses me non stop about our little girl…criticizes my parenting even though she is happy healthy and he sees her as much as he likes. I’ve avoided getting a legal agreement in place for a long time as it just seemed to be so FINAL…and I was still holding onto the dream of us being a happy family. Now I’ve finally set the process in motion…and I have stopped hoping for a miracle. I have to keep moving forward. I’ve been good with no contact (as good as I could be considering I have to see him daily since he sees the baby daily), but I’ve had a giant peephole in my door that I keep peering through at him. I’m getting a new door now – no windows and no peephole. Love you ladies, keep the faith!
Eternal Summer
on 10/12/2011 at 9:40 am
Tasha-it’s so hard when you keep holding on to some fantasy that they will change….so it’s really great to hear you are in ACTION to set up some boundaries to protect and take care of YOURSELF! YAY!
ValleyForgeLady
on 10/12/2011 at 4:09 am
This is the time of year that all the Bad Pennies come rolling out or maybe we go looking for them. There is nothing like a New Year to make some the worst people in your life wish they had you to kick around.
Beware! You will hear from them or worse yet…..you will check in with them to see if they are still the same person who gave you so much aggravation. Trust me they are and they are probably not alone. Most really Bad Boys cannot be alone….so expect to be replaced. However, since they will treat the next woman the same….you may be on the list of women to recycle when they find themselves alone. And don’t kid yourself…..they all have a list of women they consider back up ladies.
I am on someone’s back up list ….and the next time he calls or emails ……I will tell him that I am so happy in a relationship (with me) that I am no longer available. I will also suggest that he call the next woman on The List.
dawn
on 10/12/2011 at 5:58 pm
@ VF:
You hit the nail on the head! Good for you removing yourself from his back up list of women. You’ve made it, you’re well and truly free. It what we all strive for, the ability to remove ourselves from their list. Congrats!!!
colororange
on 11/12/2011 at 1:15 pm
VFL,
“I will tell him that I am so happy in a relationship (with me) that I am no longer available.”
How neat. I like that.
Emily
on 10/12/2011 at 4:15 am
Thanks for this, Natalie — once again you remind us just when we need it. Since my ex “birthday texted me” a week or so ago, I can’t get him out of my head even though we’ve been NC since January. This was his first attempt to see if the “pass code still worked”. Thanks for setting me straight… he doesn’t want me… he just wants to win… he never cared before, “lazy communication” is NOT caring…. Drat. It’s just this is harder with the “holiday-itis” setting in — feeling sorry for myself for being alone, the cold weather, all the advertisements of happy couples and families — yikes!
Your post was what I needed to stay strong and carry on…
Misha M
on 10/12/2011 at 4:04 pm
Emily, I just felt like I needed to reply to you cos I was like omg ME TOO. My birthday was in Oct and he facebooked me saying ”happy birthday I really miss you and im soo sorry for being such a bastard to you”…although my first instinct was to say I miss you too cos that is how I felt instead I wrote ”Bastard is a bit of an understatement…try evil c**t”. He did not respond to that and i felt like I was back at square 1 which is waiting for this AC to give me the attention Ive always wanted from him. My point is try to get him off your mind and although yes this is a hard time of year for the broken hearted try not to buy into all the hype if ur getting over something at xmas time or new year or easter or whatever it is your life and you take all the time you need to feel ok!
colororange
on 11/12/2011 at 1:18 pm
Emily,
I hear you….all the holiday crud. Hang in. If you take a look around you and listen, not all these couples/families are so very happy. I remind myself of that so I can keep some level of calmness about me.
carolinajasmine
on 10/12/2011 at 4:39 am
Perfect timing on this post!! NC for 33 hours and this is just the boost I needed today! Always let than man weasel himself back in, but this time I’m throwing out the key, boarding up the windows, and sealing in the cracks around the door.
yoshizzle
on 10/12/2011 at 4:49 am
LOL, yes, the Shining poster was perfect. Now, in my case, I really truly don’t think he wants anything from ME in particular. I think he’s effed up, and whatever mood he’s in, that’s what I get. If he’s angry at himself and his life…he blames others…and i’m just in the way. REALLY in the way, bcuz i work at one of his haunts. It may well be that when he IS in a funk, he’s cheesed off that he can’t secure steady attention from me. I don’t think really he’s being tactical. That would require way too much emotional investment in ME or whatever I have. It became clear to me that I was just a convenient and timely and very brief interest that became uninteresting as soon as he hooked me. I would not flatter myself now to think he’s consciously trying to gain access to the other side of my “door” lol. BUT, it’s a possibility, I suppose. If he were any run of the mill EU i’d say yes. However, the other day he came in just furious, and tried to blast me over a product. I dodged him so he semi-blasted my coworker..but he lingered around till i came back to the counter and then said my name, but i ignored him and he immediately left. ANYWAYS, i’ll continue being professional in demeanor and he can eat it if it doesn’t suit him. I just wish i was immune to his horrible presence 🙂
yoshizzle
on 10/12/2011 at 5:14 am
but nat…you are usually spot-on i must say. so, it is very possible he actually wants to “win” meaning, he wants me to press the reset button as well and be narc. supply again to his oh so witty charming over-intellectualized monologues. oh well, too bad for him! he can huff and puff or smile and cajole, i’m a rock as far as he knows: i got NOTHIN for him.
Australia
on 10/12/2011 at 5:18 am
I was NC, and was getting my power back and then slowly, once again … I opened my door for him.
Now I look like the “bad person” if I say I don’t want a relationship with him…which I don’t know if I want or don’t want! Once again I am stuck in indecision even though he made the decision for me when he broke up with me a few months ago…….
MaryC
on 10/12/2011 at 12:38 pm
Australia you don’t look like a bad person NC is very hard and who cares what others might think its your life. All I can say is if you want to go NC then go NC but don’t use it as a game. He broke up with you so you should ask yourself if he’s worth going back to and is he worth losing the power you were getting back.
A
on 10/12/2011 at 3:24 pm
Australia, if you’re considering going back, remember, as Nat says, whatever was broken in the relationship needs to be fixed first. Has he told you why he ended the relationship, acknowledged that he hurt you and apologized/explained in a way that is satisfactory to you? Are you confident that the same thing won’t just happen again? What do YOU want–and if you’re not sure you want it, I think it’s fine to tell him that and the reason why. His response to that may help you make up your mind.
grace
on 10/12/2011 at 8:48 pm
Australia
If you don’t know if you love someone, then I say that you don’t.
Cut him off.
tired_of_assanova
on 10/12/2011 at 10:00 pm
flip-flapping = code red
HowPredictable
on 10/12/2011 at 6:18 am
How timely.
My ex and I have been broken up for a year. He’s a genuinely sweet man, treated me exceptionally well for the most part, but he is plagued by lots of personal issues and is a textbook EUM. I have no interest in getting back with him, and am seeing someone else now. However, for various reasons I have been admittedly erratic at maintaining complete NC. Once in a while the door creaks open a little, and then I slam it shut again.
Natalie is right about the various methods they try: e-mailing dumb jokes, “miss you” texts, woe-is-me/no-will-to-live messages, apologies, future faking missives, and so on. Mostly I ignore them, but he has quite the creative and resourceful little arsenal.
With the holidays approaching, he has suddenly found a new excuse for his boundary-busting overtures, showing up uninvited and unnannounced with Christmas gifts for my kids and — just last night — a pizza to “surprise” us for dinner. (None of us had any; he ate a slice in awkward silence, while standing up, and then I promptly showed him the door, after telling him in no uncertain terms that his behavoiur was intrusive, inappropriate, disrespectful of my boundaries, etc.). Cue the volley of “I’m hurt” and/or slightly nasty texts (which I ignored), followed by a second round of contrite, apologetic ones (also ignored).
For him, it’s all about regaining control, even when the attempts are camouflaged with nice gestures and expensive gifts. And my boundaries are still getting trampled on; I am the only one who can or will put a stop to it.
Really, it’s like these EUMs are all reading from the same How-To Manual!
Violet
on 10/12/2011 at 6:35 am
How do you shut the door when you have a child and have to have contact?
grace
on 10/12/2011 at 3:11 pm
violet
keep everything about the child. don’t let him in the house. he can stand in the hallway if he’s picking up the child and there’s hailstones outside. you don’t go inside his house. you exchange the child on the doorstep. no phone calls, emails or texts unless they are to arrange visitation or there is an emergency concerning the child. stick to the visitation plan to minimise any re-arrangements.
People manage to do this all the time, so can you. I think it gets easier with time.
And no sex.
louise
on 10/12/2011 at 6:46 am
I was the poster child for being The Fallback Girl. My ex only popped up when he was single and knew he could get an ego stroke/shag/sympathy from me. I did this for 13 years!!!! I went full NC 6 months back and although it was hard in the beginning it is the best thing i ever did. I took ownership for my weak behaviour at letting him in when he needed something. I never considered my own needs and constantly apologised for his vile behaviour toward me. He will pop up again at some point however i am now strong enough to keep that door closed for good. NC is the only way and i only wish i had access to this website all those years ago as it has been a godsend. Thank you Natalie
Fedup
on 10/12/2011 at 7:14 am
Hi I usually have the opposite result, exes never contact me at all. Probably just as well, as they usually try and use you for sex dont they? Someone told me it’s coz I never contact them and try and move on. But what am I supposed to do contact and be a doormat? Shouldn’t it be the dumper/ person that messed up to contact and work for our affections?
Eternal Summer
on 10/12/2011 at 9:18 am
ok, me too!
but this time i think, phew! that is a good thing!
because if they did, i’d be in this emotional hellhole with them longer!
no thanks!
tired_of_assanova
on 10/12/2011 at 11:26 am
Hahahah
The only time the EUM contacted me was to return my stuff – a bag- , of course which I promptly dropped the phone call.
To they care? Hell no, they’re off busy shagging around.
colororange
on 10/12/2011 at 6:16 pm
Fedup, it’s a rarity that one hits me up. Then I’m not much of a talker anyway……
Fedup
on 10/12/2011 at 7:17 am
I’m not a big advocate of trying again with exes. The reason why it didn’t work out will still be there. Most people don’t change and most don’t put enough effort in.
yoshizzle
on 10/12/2011 at 8:35 am
PS…TOTAL COMPLETE NC is totally the way to heal.
In the year since we last spoke, my life expanded, new avenues opened up, this job for instance. I wouldn’t for a second give him, or someone like him, the time of day now. I wouldn’t ignore red flags like I did for him. Know why? CUZ I don’t NEED a man. I realized my self-worth. I came into my own. I was isolated single mom when he came into my life…now i work in one of the most social environments in my town. ALL the single dudes come in. I’ve made new friends. I’ve learned new skills (in and outside of work). Life has expanded.
THiS DOUCHE?!?! PUH LEEEZE!!
I highly recommend reading, devouring, learning from, putting into practise…Nat’s articles and advice. And THEN? MOVING. ON. No more obsessing. Just do it. You got the information, knowledge is power…ok. Done…get on with your life WITHOUT these douchebags. PROPS to NAT for SOMEHOW discovering this weird wild and rediculous breed of men (EU) and for helping us get out of the grip of their insanity and moving on with life!
Elle
on 10/12/2011 at 10:00 am
Good one, Yosh! Great advice. This morning, I wrote a list of all of the things I did in 2011 – not just formal goals (health, career, creativity, contribution etc), but happy, unexpected and challenging experiences. There was so much there, it was great to see. I can say that there is no chance I would have lived all of this with the AC in my life. Apart from the fact that I was turning into an anxious wreck with him (there goes health!), I would have needed constant permission and approval – partly because of my own sh*t, sure, but also partly because the AC and the guys I have been with lately were so extremely critical of me (with the relationship having a surveillance element, especially when I was being happy or productive). Now I don’t need that approval, or at least not nearly as much (not even close). It’s good. Hoping an openness to love/a man will emerge. But can wait!
yoshizzle
on 10/12/2011 at 8:51 am
Another helpful reminder: a NORMAL person , who has every right to frequent the store i work in….would come in , get the product, pay, and leave. Politely.
Having taken responsibility for their actions: they would respect that this is my work environment. They wouldn’t act like nothing happened between us: they wouldn’t try to small talk, get angry over a product they hallucinated that i recommended, or make multiple visits in one day just to try to “chat”.
I can see now, after re-reading this article, that he is boundary-busting, once again. Absolutely no respect for my needing to move on, no desire to consider my feelings or boundaries, no thought whatsoEVER to ME. Period.
Thanks for the reply Nat, and for the article. Very appreciated.
AngelFace
on 10/12/2011 at 7:01 pm
Yoshizzle,
You could end his game by getting a restraining order taken against him – one where he would be legally unable to go to your workplace. Why put up with a fool like him? He has no right to bother you at all, and especially where you earn your living. I wouldn’t put up with it…. Hoping the very best for you!
tired_of_assanova
on 10/12/2011 at 10:02 pm
Sometimes this can backfire- restraining order gives them an audience and a platform for drama. So it depends.
yoshizzle
on 11/12/2011 at 4:05 am
oh, he doesnt bother me that much. i feel anxiety/emotional upheaval when he comes in but it’s totally manageable and i’ll get over it, i suspect. I’m not afraid of him. He’s like that damn mosquito when you’re trying to get to sleep. Only with a little more emotional impact lol!.
And, hey, it’s interesting. I mean, at least! Observing this farce, observing my reaction to it, learning, growing from it.
And really he’s not trying to bother me too much; that would involve ME. It’s just about HIM. He’s doing what he does. I’m ok.
Lo J
on 11/12/2011 at 1:58 pm
But it has given US so much food for thought!!
Gerog
on 10/12/2011 at 9:45 am
I needed to read this, as I’m in this situation with someone I met recently. For a number of reasons I didn’t feel like he wanted to get to know me as a person – I mean, how can you just meet someone and know nothing about their life because you don’t ask any ‘getting to know you’ questions, but you ask sexual ones?
I cut him off, and after he talked me round I decided to give him another chance, approach things with an open mind, see if there wasn’t just a different way of communicating I was missing. WRONG! Fast forward to a few days ago, when I spent some time with him and was proven right again – still no interest in my life and I have to explain to him why it was good manners to see someone to the door if they’ve been at your house.
Anyway, it just proves right my instincts (I won’t be testing them again), and what NML says – he doesn’t want me, he wants control, he wants to win. He has not shown any thought or consideration for my thoughts, feelings or boundaries. He won’t be happy about the door shutting, but the important thing is now I don’t have the lights on or twitch the curtains. Nobody’s at home, bruv! Give up.
mirelle
on 10/12/2011 at 10:47 am
Last week, after months of NC I received some dumb jokes such as “Why did the Maths book died? Because it had too many problems”.
So funny.
He’s so predictable. Next week he’s going to call again, then send some dumb jokes and so on…
Bhoot
on 10/12/2011 at 11:12 am
I am so glad that I came across this article tonight. My EUM ex contacted me tonight just to say “hi” online. Truthfully, I was more then a little perplexed because: A.) I haven’t spoken to him in 2 years and we broke up over 4 years ago B.) That he could even see me online as I thought he deleted me from his list like I did years ago (not an online bf for clarification). The funny part about it is that I didn’t give him an entrance, I just said hi and didn’t ask him any questions. He did ask me if I remembered him and I didn’t answer at first and he said, “Damn. I didn’t think you would forget me!” Umm, okay. I didn’t forget him but I don’t want anything to do with him in any shape or form (mentally, memory wise, etc). The first thing that crossed my mind was that he is contacting me for an ego stroke or to brag about whatever! After a fewneutral answers by me, he suddenly had to go and that was it. LOL! I see he hasn’t changed and that he still so “important” in his own mind. This is a guy who is engaged to be married and lives a “perfect” life. I was again reminded tonight why I left him behind and it’s clear he hasn’t changed/ What a hoot!
RVDHouston
on 10/12/2011 at 12:08 pm
Ironic – I got this a couple hours after my ex-whom I have had no contact with for months – sent me a text hoping all was well and wishing me a happy holiday. Thanks to the blog my door is still closed!
Neptuna
on 10/12/2011 at 2:04 pm
I think going NC means going NC because you genuinely do not want to be contacted. Reading BR and keeping one eye on the peep hole…’just in case’ is not going to work and is going to make your healing harder. When I found BR 6 months ago, I was adamant that this is what I wanted and needed, and yes the first 6 weeks were hard but I got stronger and I managed…Monday will be 6 months NC and for me that’s a huge achievement ( because I USED to be a classic text book Fall Back Girl). I decided enough is enough. In that time, I took an interior design course, joined a fabulous Zumba class and got a new job….life gets better when you truly take the focus and energy spent on them and turn it towards you…
I hope that in another 6 months, I won’t even need a calendar to mark off the NC days because to me that shows that I’m still half heartedly invested!
To ALL of you starting or progressing through NC, it does get better and it does get easier BUT…YOU have to want it to work and then it will, as for them trying to get a foot back in…believe me, when they keepa knockin and nobody is a home…they do get the message…eventually!!
dancingqueen
on 10/12/2011 at 2:06 pm
I just have to laugh….the EU AC instruction book is apparently translated into every language….years ago before I had headr about BR or all this I had this puzzling French dude when I lived in France who I went on three or four dates with and dumped due to his AC behavior and every three months regular as clockwork he would send me some stupid text begging for attention via either trying to start a fight or acting woe is me…it was not until 2 YEARS later that he stopped…because i cancelled my phone and moved back to the US…at the time I thought that it was French thing now I know that it was an AC thing…probably some dude in the Amazon jungle now is making some poor woman crazy as she tries to do NC through a fragile hut door …at least we have expired cell phone contracts and locks lol!
HowPredictable
on 10/12/2011 at 6:08 pm
DancingQueen wrote:
“probably some dude in the Amazon jungle now is making some poor woman crazy as she tries to do NC through a fragile hut door …at least we have expired cell phone contracts and locks lol!”
This literally made me laugh out loud and spit my coffee. So true — it’s such a universal phenomenon with so many men. And I didn’t realize it until I started reading and eventually found this site. At that time I thought my so-called “relationship” with the EUM was uniquely surreal, but now I know there legions of us. Strength in numbers, as they say.
What I ALSO learned, is that I am EU as well. That has been a lot more astonishing. And every time I read a comment to the effect that “EUMs never change”, I feel a little stab of recognition because I know that MY own EU issues are equally entrenched. It’s like being told by 4 different doctors that you have a terminal disease, you do the internet research and self-diagnose yourself into the same conclusion, and then are left with the question — “Now what?”.
Lots of work to do. Thank goodness I can do it in quiet, now that I am keeping the door is closed from EUMs persistent and predictable intrusions.
FinallyCaughtOn
on 10/12/2011 at 3:32 pm
I only have one question though: I have been reading this blog and it has made the tough days SOOOOOOOO much better! But, why is it that after I ended it with my EUMAC because was pulling all the crap referred to here, ( future faking, resetting and even being out and out deceitful – yes, he was responding to Craigslist ads for casual encounters – ewwwww while I was working or whatnot ) HE gets the new girl, who is crazy for him, he gets the weekends with company, he isn’t unhappy yet I am alone, lonley and for the present, very unhappy? Why was my reward for having the courage and integrity to end a false relationship, the pain? I don’t understand that at all. Maybe someone could explain this to me? I am hurting and he is just as happy as can be – doesn’t seem too equitable to me. 🙁 Thanks for letting me express myself here – you all are wonderful!
molly
on 11/12/2011 at 1:47 am
Your “reward” is being away from him.
Of course he is going to have a new person in his life. That is what these guys do. Read Natalie’s posts on how the “new” girl doesn’t have it any better than you had it with him. If this doesn’t help you, think about the woman he dated PRIOR to seeing you. Don’t you think she was thinking “wow now he’s moved on and I’m alone! Why does he get it good?” Guaranteed there is another woman in his past life who was thinking the same things you are thinking.
I also think you’re exaggerating how “happy” he could be. You’re talking about somebody who doesn’t process emotions and caring feelings in any substantive way, if at all. They want their needs met ON THEIR TERMS. They can’t give back anything. To me that makes them pretty bereft emotionally, and I suspect it doesn’t make for a very happy existence. From experience I can tell you the EUM I was with was absolutely miserable. He was confused, insecure, unsophisticated in his feelings, and completely unsure of himself. All of which contributed to his being an EUM in the first place. He was incapable of emotional depth.
And, these guys don’t change. Do you honestly think he “undid” years and decades of psychological damage, narcissism, and attachment disorder just by hooking up with another girl?!
I think it’s good to be alone after a break-up. You have to process what happened, otherwise you will end up jumping into something just as bad, or worse, with the next person. Figure out the good and the bad from this relationship. Work on becoming a better partner for the next person and work on and decide that you will be more in tune with the red flags from the next guy so you don’t go as deep into it as you did with the last clown.
Also, enjoy being single. It’s not a curse.
LA
on 11/12/2011 at 4:16 pm
Molly – well said. My ex moved in with someone a week after we broke up and they now both appear as happy as can be, while I’ve been left to do all the grieving on my own. It can feel very unfair.
However, you are right. A new woman isn’t going to miraculously solve all his deep-seated psychological problems that he has been carrying around since he was a child. It’s all romance, sunshine and lollipops at the moment, but given time the gloss will wear off and the same problems that led to our break up will most likely reappear in their relationship. Granted, I’m different from this woman, but his issues such as inability to communicate or deal with anything remotely stressful are big relationship red flags. I’ve also got to remind myself that I was unhappy in the relationship. Just because some other woman thinks he is the best thing since sliced bread, doesn’t mean he has suddenly transformed into Mr Wonderful. He is still the same guy that I was unhappy with and did not respect.
Also, a word on Facebook. I must keep reminding myself that just because they post about how wonderful their lives are, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true. I’ve got to stop looking at Facebook because it does hurt me when I do and I’m most likely breaking NC every time I do it – but it’s just too darn tempting.
dawn
on 11/12/2011 at 3:43 am
@ FinallyCaughtOn
I hear you. From the outside it looks like he’s just skipped along his merry way, new girl, etc. etc., meanwhile you’re curled up on the couch with a box of tissues grieving, lonely and yes, angry. Sigh. Seems pretty damn unfair, yes. Your grief is only temporary, you will eventually process it and cycle through it. Here’s the thing, he’s not really happy. He’s happy in an unhealthy way if that makes any sense. This girl will eventually figure out too that he’s EU. The man has major issues and there really isn’t an endless pool of women out there that will put up with his crap, stay with him and tolerate him.
You weren’t getting what you needed and the relationship was emotionally unhealthy. You have made a self-loving decision that is so profoundly important to your present and your future. Like you said it takes a lot of courage to do what is good for you. Go through the short-term pain for the long term gain. Dumping him puts you on a much better path mentally and emotionally. Stay there, don’t look back. You will get through, you can do it.
Lo J
on 11/12/2011 at 11:10 pm
Once you work through it, see it for what it is, you’ll be ELATED he is with her and not you. I once had a BF who broke up with me because I had a child and went straight to another woman. Days later I found out what all he had done to his previous exes (including urinating on their possessions when he was angry, running around on them, etc. oh he was a CAD). But of course, he was in LOVE with this woman and they were together ALWAYS and pics on FB and LOVE LOVE LOVE blah blah blah, etc… Hurtful, yes, but with time, I could see it for what it was. Not going into details, this woman lacked as much character and depth as he and the two deserved each other. And I’m sure they will have quite a charmed and well matched values (or lack thereof) life. And she and he both did me a GREAT favor. Give it time. We can grow from our most painful experiences.
Bhoot
on 11/12/2011 at 5:19 am
@ Finally Caught On
A long time ago I used to feel like you did especially because I saw my ex-fiance moving on to a new girl, a new country, new everything -with a lot of happiness and success. While I was stuck miserable, alone, unhappy, and a total failure in my own mind. I gave up a good job opportunity, lost many of my friends, even didn’t travel to other countries when I had the chance, etc.
Sounds horrible, right? In truth it was, but it made me a better person and caused me to fight for the great life I have now. I have everything I want and he is still stuck in the same mode as he was from before. Sure, he might have some success and happiness but in the long run, it can’t compare with what I have.
Everything hurts now and you’re probably feeling like you’ve been punished and and your ex has been rewarded. Don’t think this. Get through your emotions as soon as possible and keep moving forward. If you look back or stay rooted, you will stagnate! Keep moving forward and it’s cliche to say: it does get better! 🙂
LA
on 11/12/2011 at 4:25 pm
Bhoot,
That’s great to know that you created a great life for yourself – better than what you would ever had had with the ex. I like these good news stories! Just curious to know how long it took for you to completely heal from and get over the ex?
It has been three months post break up for me (together 3.5 years). I’m much better but still have not reached the apathy stage where I do not care one way or the other how his life is – whether it be great or awful. I’m craving apathy!
grace
on 11/12/2011 at 2:16 pm
Finally
I don’t have a boyfriend or weekend with company and I’m happy. And just because someone has those things it doesn’t make them happy. The shine may very well wear off the new girlfriend once he reverts to form. I’ll go a step further, even if YOU had those things it wouldn’t make you happy until you’re happy in yourself. Yes, I know it’s a cliche. I used to roll my eyes when I heard it – it sounds so new-agey. Yet I found it to be true. The way out of the trauma is pretty much to believe the opposite of everything you used to believe.
When you are happy, you want others to be as happy as you are. When you’re not – you resent them for it. Why should they be happy when I’m smarter/prettier/kinder/suffer more/do more/sacrifice more/work harder? Comparing yourself with other people is absolutely invidious. Never mind what he’s doing, concentrate on yourself. It IS easier said that done, but it’s what we are all working towards here.
I’m with molly, happiness comes from TRULY giving, receiving and sharing. Not from these jacked up relationships, however good they may look from the outside. How happy can he really be? Not that it’s your problem anymore – yay.
lo j
on 10/12/2011 at 4:39 pm
I have played BOTH roles, the FBG and EUW, sometimes in the same relationship. Whatever it took to keep me single. And all the while, claiming to want to be coupled. I could sure see the role of the other person but was COMPLETELY blinded of my part.
HowPredictable
on 10/12/2011 at 7:26 pm
[raises hand]. Me, too.
Actually, I will go one better: I was previously married for almost 20 years to a guy who was so quietly EU himself that I knew I would never be called upon by him to be emotionally intimate. From the outside, we looked like a healthy couple. And ironically, we actually made a great (EU) pair.
Now I’m dating, ostensibly looking for a real, healthy, relationship, but I keep choosing men who are guaranteed NOT to give me one.
mirelle
on 10/12/2011 at 9:05 pm
Me too, I even had an ex EUM who, after years became my “Fallback Boy” :). I did it unintentionally; while I was trying to get over him, I started another relationship, an unhealthy one, of course.
I totally recognize myself in the posts about unavailable girls. Looking back, I can say that in all my relationships one of us (or both) was always unavailable. It seems that we attract the same situations until we learn our lesson.
What I can’t understand is why are there people who met their soul mate at 15 or 20 and are still together,married,happy, etc. Didn’t they have any lessons to learn? Why was I supposed to learn the hard way what true love is about, when others just met someone and are happy together?
Groundhog Day
on 11/12/2011 at 7:51 pm
I’m with you mirelle…
im not in a brilliant place at the moment and im attempting NC with an unavailable man but im really hurting at the moment, and im really bitter at the moment too that some people i know have been with their fella’s since they were 18 and don’t have a clue, why do i have to go through all this while they’ve been stable and happy since 18 with none of this to worry about?!
at least this website shows me its not just me, and im praying i can keep strong with my NC, i just need to keep rereading this article until i can recite it ha
xxx <3
mirelle
on 11/12/2011 at 10:15 pm
Hello Groundhog Day,
NC is hard, especially at the beginning. It really gets better after a couple of months. You’ll feel stronger and you’ll congratulate yourself for doing so.
And yes, it’s a good idea to re-read this article in your weak moments. And re-read the posts of women here who broke contact, and felt humiliated again. The ACs just needed the assurance that they were not so bad, that they deserve a talk, and then disappeared again.
Don’t give him a super- power over you. He’s just a man.
Hugs
Wizzy
on 10/12/2011 at 5:05 pm
Great Post! I am one of those people who mistake ridiculously inappropriate behaviour for flattery. It’s a very definite pattern I see in all my relationships, stemming from a horrible abusive childhood ( My Mum for one busts any boundary she can see me trying to erect and used to do it when I was a kid too; let’s not even start on my 1st EUM lets’ call him Dad). So I know now, that I have boundary issues-no doubt. I won’t bore you with all the boring details (I save that for my therapist), but I will say, that I get it when it’s in books and in theory……but when it come to practically, I am still my old self….starry-eyed fall-back girl.
I go out and about in different places and still pick them up by the dozen (EUMs). And now that it’s December, a few of the exes are sniffing around again. So to read this post and to re-affirm my self, to remind myself to keep that door shut, that it’s not flattery, is an invaluable feat for me to achieve. Especially because I made the decision to stay away from family, they are way too toxic.
Rather than to sit around moping about my loneliness this holiday, I have decided to do different. I joined hiking club and we will be up Mt Kenya this Christmas, so basically for my exes, the door will be locked and Elvis will have left the building. And any other guy I come across who so much as nudges my boundaries-will get tossed-has gotten tossed.
I read in yesterday’s comments about fear of relationships and the feeling of burdening him with my super effed up past, and I really love Nat’s response when she said something like ” you can tell him about your past if he’s proven trustworthy over and over again” With my level of dysfunction I am frequently overwhelmed by a feeling of relationship incapacity too and it is how they get into my life again and again.
It’s me; not them.
Michelle
on 10/12/2011 at 5:38 pm
No contact was definitely a struggle and is in itself a difficult thing to sustain especially in the beginning. It has however, proved to be one of the best things I could have done for myself. Knowing there were no answers to be sought in a person who is completely not self aware in any which way and plays the confused victim helped me greatly. I do admit that I kept his number on my phone for a little while after but recently deleted all his contact information. It definitely felt like a milestone moment given how torn up I was in the very beginning. To anyone who is currently going NC I just want to say hang in there! It gets better, and easier, I promise. 🙂
annied
on 10/12/2011 at 5:43 pm
Nat! I am so glad you put this out there now. You’ve captured most if not all of the ploys that my ex AC has tried in the past – including, coming back around a certain time. (I personally think that it’s when he is so backed up sexually, he is in pain) And, come around he has of late with the usual stupid, lame hooks – catching me in the hall JUST to say “hello”, throwing pieces of paper at me at meetings, hanging outside my office door and loudly speaking soooo sweetly to the new girl … the list goes on.
I used to let it get me every time. But like you said, what I took for refreshed or renewed interest in me was just him wanting to win. He knows best. He knows how to get to me. (he thinks b/c he used to) Then there were the times I would actually feel SORRY for the dirtbag, b/c he knows how to play with my empathy.
Now, after years of letting him in, the door is sealed shut and he doesnt know how to handle it. It used to be the other way around – I didnt know how to handle it when I shut the door. I was the one freaking out on the other side. Now I find myself still sometimes leaning against it and listening, but finally, I walk away – with him still standing there! what a switch!
This week, we had a company meeting and I secured a seat in between two people before he came in. I could almost feel his eyes boring into me when he came in the door and throughout the meeting. He loudly told the new girl to sit next to him and when she asked if he bit, he flirted and looked at me. I wanted to puke – so obvious! But, hey for once it did not bother me at all. Afterwards at the Christmas dinner I once again situated myself where he could not sit at my table. Ha. He came in and sat in the seat directly behind me, and pushed it back so it was touching my chair.
But we all sat there for hours and I did not turn to chat with him. I enjoyed myself and I left there chatting with co-workers while he shuffled off alone. Once it would have made me feel sorry for him or guilty … this time, I felt odd and wondered what he must be thinking. This was not the way it was supposed to play out for him.
Anyway, I wanted to tell you that story Natalie b/c it is such a far cry from the stories I used to tell on here. I will always wish that things had been different but they are not and never will be. I’m embracing it.
hELEN
on 10/12/2011 at 5:43 pm
Is there ever a possibility that they have really changed? If your door remains locked how would you find out?
annied
on 10/12/2011 at 8:17 pm
hELEN, for some of these guys, change is not possible and keeping the door locked is for our safety.
grace
on 10/12/2011 at 8:46 pm
hELEN
no.
and even if he does change he won’t want you anyway. when YOU change, you won’t want him either so it cuts both ways. when people change they want someone different.
I would never ever go back to one of my exes. Not because they’re awful necessarily (though some were) but because I’ve moved on. I don’t want that old baggage anymore. And I surely hope that they’ve moved on and wouldn’t want me either. It’s over. Let it be.
Lo J
on 10/12/2011 at 9:01 pm
IF a man wants to change, he has to be pretty insightful and do LOTS of work. And the last person he will be attracted to is the woman in his past because he will know she is not available for a healthy relationship. The last thing YOU need to worry about, Helen, is whether these guys are going to change because when you are healthy and emotionally available, they will lose their appeal. Trust me. Worry about you!! Hugs!
tired_of_assanova
on 10/12/2011 at 10:13 pm
There is a possibility that they change, but it is about the same possibility as winning lotto. When I do this I tell myself that if they REALLY REALLY were that interested (not just half-hearted and shagging around) none of this would have happened and they would be with me now, and make an effort to move, not be off somewhere else.
It was painful to know but then I figured I could be like this forever and ever AND even if they change and come back to you there is no guarantee that you’ll get them and it will be happily ever after- you might break up again anyway!
You also don’t have a claim on their better self just like they don’t have a claim on you. The other thing I realised was that I had to get over myself. If I wanted to find a round peg I could wait for the square one to change… or I could go to the store and buy a round one to start off with.
They also might lock the door too, so even if yours is locked, there is no guarantee that theirs will be open. Not all EU people bang down other’s doors.
AngelFace
on 10/12/2011 at 6:49 pm
I guesss I’m lucky because my x will probably not break NC.
Here’s the thing: He is a Sadistic Narcissistic Sexual Predator and he keeps a harem of women and at least one man (I believe) for his sex. He is an expert in lies and manipulations.
When I first met him he labeled women from his past as “crazy, and stalkers”. One time his phone rang and as he looked at caller ID, said “I don’t talk to you anymore”. So this is a man who also uses the silent treatment and No Contact when he coldly deletes people from his life – and he does it to intentionally hurt them – making room for new sexual victims who are unaware of his real motive or personal composition – which is evil (masked in the package of a very handsome sexy man).
He moved 10 houses down from me, A WEEK AFTER we broke up when I met one woman he was cheating on me with. There is one road on this penninsula. I am certain in his sick mind (Google Cognitive Distortion, because he actually believes his twisted thinking), in his sick mind he is most likely taking pleasure not talking to me – thinking I am in this house in misery. Which I’m NOT!!!! I just got back from working in the Netherlands, I have DATE tonight, I have out-of-town plans for Christmas, and I’m going to take a 4-day sunbreak in Arizona with girlfriends in mid-February – house with pool in backyard!
I’m 8 weeks of No Contact and my life is improving! I’m not in a NC tug of war with him, I am moving forward with my life and activities. I feel healthier and happier as this time goes on. Thanks Nat and everyone who posts! Happy Holidays ! ! !
Stephanie
on 10/12/2011 at 11:35 pm
Angel Face
I had to laugh when I read your comment! Because I think in a previous post I said I thought we dated the same guy. The guy that I am also 8 weeks into NC with done exactly the same thing. On our very first date which was at a expensive restaurant I might add, I asked him why he was single because he is very handsome/sexy, surely me must have met the right woman? He said I’ve met plenty of women most of which have been the right one, but it didn’t suit my lifestyle to be with them and some of them were crazy/stalkers (red flag). He also told me that he was seeing a woman shortly before me who was an attractive professional woman, one night she called him in the middle of the night crying/drunk asking why he didn’t want her and she wanted to come that night to see him. He turned her down flat and said its over and I don’t want to talk to you anymore! At the time I thought that’s weird/sad for her to behave like that. But what I should have thought/asked is what drove her to do that. He just deleted her like he has deleted me! He is used to having a harem of women (and at least one man I think) to satisfy his predatory sadistic needs. The rejection has hurt me a lot and crushed my self esteem because I know its easier for him to remain NC because he is so cold but deep down I also know he is just a narcissistic predator that dates available women and plays with their mind!
Nice to know you have a date, I’d love one of those! Lol
LA
on 11/12/2011 at 4:33 pm
My ex is also very good at hitting the delete button. He can erase the past and the people in it with a flick of a switch. I’m the opposite. I find it very hard to let go.
AngelFace
on 15/12/2011 at 9:24 am
Stephanie,
Do you live in Whatcom County? We might be dealing with the same guy. Hope you read my comment here – because it is a few days past the post.
If not same guy…. maybe same AssClown cookie cutter?… PS: I didn’t ever call him drunk and beg…. but I’m sure there have been a few women who did. He also works out-of-town…. Please reply, because I’m curious.
Emma
on 10/12/2011 at 7:29 pm
Haha love that Adam Sandler scene in Happy Gilmore “I wannnna kiss you all over …. TILL THE NIGHT CLOSES IN”…
What a vulgar tune.
CHICA8
on 10/12/2011 at 10:33 pm
Thank God for this post and for all of your responses. I finally started dating again last week. Baby steps, but I am meeting some great guys and it has felt good to get back out there. Of course, it’s like the exes know right when you start to feel good again and you’re actually moving on…My EUM ex emailed me today (have been NC for nearly 4 months, have ignored his prior texts, emails and phone calls) after not trying for about 3 months. He forwarded an email from last Spring which had a whole list of things we did together. We used to send this list back and forth to each other when we were apart. Manipulative much? Also quite dramatic. Anyway, his email today said some nonsense about how “we” both “crapped on the list” and how he is now “clear of the workaholic fog” he was in when we broke up. He also wants to talk face to face. Thanks to Natalie, and all of the fantastic advice on this blog, his email confirms several things for me: 1- he has not changed (still blames me/does not take responsibility for treating me like shit), 2- going NC was the best decision I could have made for msyelf, 3- responding in any way will set me back to square one. Instead, I am going to put on a new dress, make myself pretty, and have a great time at a holiday party tonight with friends who love and care about me. Good luck to the rest of you guys dealing with the inevitable December-induced contact from the exes.
Complicated
on 10/12/2011 at 11:01 pm
Nat, Thanks for this posting. It really hit home with me today. Unfortunately, I fell off the wagon yesterday with the EUMM after making it almost 2 weeks NC. I had a moment of weakness and it was ME that initiated a text this time. Of course he immediately responded and the communication started right back up as if it had never stopped, as if I had never said I wanted to cut contact. Obviously, I need a chain in addition to several dead bolts that even I don’t have the key to for my perverbial “NC door”. In my head, I’m thinking how much easier it is to communicate and not have to struggle each day to keep the NC door closed, not send communication, or reply when I receive a text. During my almost 2 week period of NC, he had finally stopped trying to reach me because I wasn’t responding to his efforts. I guess that scary feeling of “oh, he’s forgotten about me now” crept into my head. I’m so tired of fighting NC during my waking hours and when I’m asleep he visits me in my dreams. I need some type of strength. I’m even praying that all feelings I have for him will go away, I’m writing on here, I’m volunteering and spending time with friends I haven’t seen in a long time. What else can I do?? This period of NC was the longest I had ever made it in 4 years of communicating and visiting him…and the most pain I have ever felt. There’s even a drug that’s available to addicts when they start their journey of detoxing, I wish there was something I could take to help facilitate my NC. My birthday is coming up this week and I know I’ll hear from him again this week. So tired (emotionally, mentally, physically) of trying to stay NC and do the right thing. I want my NC door to stay shut, but I also don’t want the urge to open it if that makes sense. Just seems I’m fighting to keep it closed while someone else tries to open it and I’m also fighting to keep myself from opening it. Sorry for the venting, but thanks to everyone for listening.
grace
on 10/12/2011 at 11:43 pm
Complicated
I think you should stop calling it communicating. Call it what it is. Texting.
Two weeks is not long at all. I’ve had holidays longer than that.
What to do? Stop contacting him and ignore all his attempts to contact you.
runnergirl
on 11/12/2011 at 1:29 am
Hi Complicated, you are recognizing you going down the path of no return every time you respond and open the door. As Natalie told me when I was in this phase, “you are in danger girl and it comes from within”. It’s up to you to stick to NC and bolt the door and seal it shut. He is married, still married, and will be married in the future. That’s pretty much it. Game over. He’s married. Next time he contacts you, tell him you’ll forward his message to you to his wife. Trust me, you won’t hear from him again! Door closed. Married men don’t want their mistress comunicating with their wife. Just too sloppy.
Happy Birthday. I wish there was a shot or a pill that would help or some words. There’s nothing, just our integrity. Imagine what it would feel like to be his wife when she knows he had a mistress. May I never be her.
Complicated
on 15/12/2011 at 3:49 am
Hi Runnergirl,
Thanks for the birthday wishes! Your comment about forwarding the texts to his wife made me realize something…all texts he has sent me since October (when he dished out compliments and asked me to sext and send dirty pics. ugh, think I just threw up a little) could be sent to his wife. There is nothing remotely personal or loving in any of them. Looking back on the texts, it sounds like he is talking to a sports buddy because as I’ve mentioned before, they’re all sports banter related. I’m not saying I’m forwarding these to his wife (definitely not gonna do that), what I’m saying is that I have received some really mixed messages over the course of 3 months. Texts that would be considered messages between two buddies to texts that would be sent between lovers. The messages sent back in October and those of previous months, are not the same as the past two months texts. The wife’s in enough pain I’m sure already being married and living with an EUM. He’s no different today than he was at the age of 19. I realized some people really do not change. He was cold and distant back then too, unable to get too close to anyone. And I deserve better. I’m reading Nat’s latest book and he fits almost EVERY single characteristic for a EUM! I know he’s not worth the effort (not to mention the time, money, mental energy, etc.) I’ve put into him, so I’ve been working on trying to change my thoughts when he comes to mind, which I’ll admit is alot. But, I’m taking it one day at a time and trying to put the focus back on me. And, I’m so glad I wasn’t the one who ended up marrying him all those years ago. Considering myself blessed today. Sorry for rambling, these random thoughts popped into my mind after reading your comments.
runnergirl
on 16/12/2011 at 2:34 am
Hi Complicated,
You are sounding so much better and it is wonderful you are inviting friends over for a B-Day party. That isn’t cheesy. I think it is an important first step on the road to treating you with love and respect. I’ve been really making an effort to do something nice for me everyday and it feels odd but wonderfully different. I’m starting to see that if I treat myself with love and respect, I wouldn’t tolerate someone in my life who didn’t, particluarly a lying cheat.
It is also a big step to realize that the texts were merely buddy banter. I should have been clear that I was NOT suggesting that you actually send them to his wife. It is another big step to hear you empathsize what his wife must be going through being married to such a loser. She is a person with feelings, hopes, and aspirations and is his wife.
Natalie’s book is awesome. It was the best gift I ever recieved and I gave it to me. I was totally blown away by the dance of the FBG and the Mr. U. I ticked off all the boxes of the classic FBG and him the Mr. U. We danced so perfectly together, although I was stunned to read about my life in the pages of a book by a brilliant author who I’d never met. Keep reading and seeing your counselor. When you feel up to it, I’d highly recommend doing the UNSENT letters and the relationship crime scene(s). The written work really helped me work through some nasty daddy issues and how I’ve continually tried to right the wrongs of my childhood by getting involved with men who were daddy incarnates. The exMM and my father are so similar there was no way to avoid it.
You are blessed. We all are. We discovered Natalie and BR. When you block him, you’ll be taking action to match your words and sealing the cracks in the door. Happy B-Day.
yoshizzle
on 11/12/2011 at 4:15 am
i’d say you are giving WAY too much power to the idea of being with someone. It’s just a relationship. Life is full of different relationships. You could have a more satisfying relatinoship with a cat.
NC isn’t hard. It’s the easiest thing to do, actually. But it means you stop yourself when u start thinking about them. If you have to have a mourning/grieving period, do it..but you’re creating all this drama in your head. It doesn’t actually EXIST…unless YOU are thinking about it.
See it for what it is, and it loses it’s power over you. Its not a living, separate entity. It’s a series of events that happened, that led to repetitive thoughts, that trigger unpleasant emotions. good luck!
LA
on 11/12/2011 at 4:46 pm
Yoshi,
I like what you said: you are giving way too much power to the idea of being with someone…it’s just a relationship. Its not a living, separate entity. It’s a series of events that happened, that led to repetitive thoughts, that trigger unpleasant emotions.
When someone breaks up with us (even though we know it’s the best thing for us) we tend to magnify the ex – make him larger than life and bestow upon him all these magical qualities and traits that he never had. We knew he wouldn’t make us happy in the long run, yet now that he doesn’t want us, he morphs into the man that holds the key to our lasting happiness.
But, he’s just a person. There are billions of us out there. We interacted with this one person and it led to a series of events that caused us emotional pain. Yet he is still just a person.
Let’s not put these guys on pedestals. We were never going to be happy with them in the long run. Be thankful the relationship ended so that we can find another person who will add to our lives for the better.
Australia
on 11/12/2011 at 6:03 am
Complicated, I understand where you are coming from completely! You are not alone.
Keep that NC door shut, you know why? Because the longer you keep contact now, the harder it will be to break it again on your part. From the sounds of it, you are exhausted from all the energy spent on this guy. Trust me, I wish I had cut my ex off after I broke NC, but now its made its way back to the same old pattern …. you do not want to be there. Shut that door.
Complicated
on 15/12/2011 at 4:01 am
Hi Australia,
You’re right. I’m exhausted. I’ve spent WAY too much time, effort, everything on him. I recognize that I’ve been fighting myself to hold onto the “idea of him” I had…not the person he actually is. I just hate feeling like I’ve been rejected by him again. He obviously sees me as someone who can be easily discarded and someone with whom he can just disappear and reappear as he pleases. Just like it says in Nat’s book, I’ve been looking for the validation that he really did care and he was the good guy I thought he was. The more distance I have from him, the more I realize he really isn’t that great. He’s actually pretty rotten as shown in his behavior and actions. They certainly didn’t match his words. Good luck to you on your NC journey.
Blue skies & sunshine
on 11/12/2011 at 9:29 am
Complicated
I have found the single most effective thing I’ve done this time round was to block his texts and e-mails. I also told him I was doing this. That way you can find your feet in NC and get used to *you* not contacting *him* without worrying about finding the strength to ignore his attempts – because you simply won’t know about them.
And if he goes quiet and you feel hurt, you can just assume that it’s because he knows you aren’t receiving his messages. Nothing personal. It would take somebody pretty disillusioned to continue to fire off texts and e-mails into the void where no-one will ever read them.
And don’t forget – going quiet can be an attempt to get the door open too. If he knows your key is to allow you to feel he’s forgotten you, then that’s the one he’ll use. In fact this latest episode will have confirmed that to him, so he will doubtless try it again next time! Be aware of this. Sometimes with these guys it’s like playing chess – you’ve got to be one move ahead all the time!
Happy birthday for next week and let all the wisdom you find here on BR be the strength you need.
Complicated
on 15/12/2011 at 4:08 am
Thanks Blue Skies! After four years, he definitely knows that going quiet is a way to get me to open the door. Problem is, I’ve never really closed it…always left the door open with the proverbial crack. That’s one thing I’ve always hated about him, and told him so…the fact he can easily disconnect from me and forget about me until he’s ready to communicate again. Even as a young boy of 19 he could do this. When I asked him a few months ago how he did this (so I could learn to do the same), he said he didn’t know. I guess he’s always been the EUM and I’ve been the FBG. We played our parts well. Now I’m working on getting the door bolted shut and all the cracks sealed. Here’s to a birthday gift of peace of mind this year!
Complicated, let me say this again: it’s just a text. On lazy forms of reaching out to someone, on a scale of 1-10, 10 being effort and 1 being the least, it’s in minus territory.
Low level effort for high level mental anguish.
If you came here and said “I caved. I picked up the phone / I hopped on a plane and called him from outside his house and said ‘Be outside in 5 minutes or I’m gonna show up at your front door”, at least I’d know you were serious in this fantasy excursion.
And what I’m going to say next to you Complicated, I say to you and to anyone else on here who is going through this and I say it out of empathy, experience, and care:
Stop bullshitting yourself.
“I’m so tired of fighting NC during my waking hours and when I’m asleep he visits me in my dreams.”
Complicated, this is just texting, your imagination, your vagina, a few busted visits where he left you in a hotel room, and some overworked nostalgia based on a very ropey history.
Fighting NC? You’re not fighting NC Complicated – you’re fighting yourself. You are fighting a compulsion to text someone who wasn’t texting you because it bothers you that the married man who has been married the whole time and a ratbag to boot, isn’t texting you. It’s a text. People put more effort into ordering a pizza.
If he’s not shocked, he’s at least bemused that a grown woman could make so much out of some texts from a married man. I guarantee it. What type of impression do you think you’re giving this man? Respectable, cool, calm, collected woman who thinks too much of herself to be strung along anymore and knows she deserves better than a quick text or some text ping pong and some empty promises?
You’re fighting to close the door on a relationship that only exists for you. You are being incredibly lazy, as if you could invest yourself into a fantasy for four years and that it shouldn’t hurt or require some effort. You are better than this.
But I also think that you should get some professional support to help you through this time because if you’re asking for something to ‘take’ to help you through NC, the time has come for you to invest yourself in some physical help, as in a person you sit down with and have a level of accountability to, so that you don’t have too much virtual in your life.
Make this birthday count – give yourself the gift of freedom and a you that that is snatching back her self-respect.
Fearless
on 12/12/2011 at 10:40 am
Love that whole comment Nat there’s a great hard hitting lesson in there for all of us – and me too as much as anyone else!
Love this:
“It’s a text. People put more effort into ordering a pizza.”
Ain’t that one truth – and there’s no escaping it! I just know already that’s one of your magic phrases that will stick in my head for the rest of my life. Thank you! Sometimes you just sum it all up in a one sentence! And what strikes me too is that you say this kind of works both ways – so true! Cos that was exactly the amount of effort that *I* was prepared to put in to “communicate” with him when I was pining for some attention. If I’d been serious I’d have been doing something more than texting him!
Thanks for that. I’ll bear it all in mind!
Complicated
on 15/12/2011 at 4:53 am
Hi Nat,
“Low level effort for high level mental anguish.” Yep, that pretty much sums up the past 4 years for me. Oh, and the “.. fighting to close the door on a relationship that only existed for me”….so true. I’ve been the one who made all the effort, spent the money, and had all the feelings (or at least showed them). He’s not a complete monster so I figure he had some feelings for me, just not on the same level as mine were for him. I’m currently reading your newest FBG book and see myself in just about every sentence you wrote.
I hoped the more he saw me, the more he’d come to care for me and I’d receive the validation that he really did care, that the things he “texted” and did with me when we were together just weren’t to satisfy his own needs. No one wants to think of themselves as being used. However, I don’t believe he used me, I think he’s simply an EUM who is cowardly and who doesn’t even know what his feelings are. He’s actually said he didn’t know what his feelings were for me because he wasn’t good expressing his thoughts and feelings. Unfortunately, I chose to ignore the many “red flags” when I should have just believed him and moved on. Even at the age of 19 he was cold and distant at times when we were dating and I wanted to be the one to “change” him. Yuck. You’re right, I invested myself into a fantasy for 4 years and now I’m working to get myself out of it. Wish I had NEVER reunited with this EUMM and left him a thing of the past. My bad judgement has left me hurting and trying to find the good person again that I always believed I was.
I did start to see a counselor this week and it was if a curtain had been lifted. Being the child of alcoholic parents and learning to be second to their addiction, while always trying to receive validation I really was loved, has carried over into my adult life. Sadly, I always believed I would not be the product of my environment, but I could make myself into anything and anybody I wanted to be without the baggage of my past. I guess my baggage did travel with me. Looks like the addiction that has run in my family for several generations manifested itself in me in the form of being addicted to striving to get an EUMM’s validation versus an addiction that was satisfied from a bottle. I definitely felt the highs when I would receive a text and felt the lows when I didn’t. Hi, my name is Complicated and I’m addicted to relationship crack. Wow, all this after one session. Feeling hopeful today. I’m looking forward to working through this and becoming the best person I can be and thinking of myself as a good person again. I even planned myself a birthday party for the weekend and invited my friends. Kinda cheesy, but oh well. I thought it would be good to be surrounded by the people who truly care for me. I like the idea of giving myself freedom as a birthday present 🙂
Haaaaappppy Birthday Complicated! Yay you for throwing a party – it’s connecting you with *real* life and *real* connections. I’m so glad that you *finally* went to see the counselor and you highlight what can be the single most illuminating blessing from the car crash that is an affair:
They force the worst of the things that you’re fighting out of you – it ends up being like an exorcism if you’re prepared to face yourself, your feelings and the truth.
We have some similarities in our childhoods. I think that Florence’s and OW’s do have a particular thing about righting the wrongs of the past. Your relationship was like trying to right the wrongs of your parents and then right the wrongs of your original relationship with him. You don’t know any other way than to be second, which is it why it feels normal to make a big deal out of a text message.
But I am going to say this to you and it’s important in having an ongoing conversation with yourself so that you can be authentic and get into reality:
Your job is not to judge him as a ‘good’ or a ‘bad’ man, just like you wouldn’t want someone to deem you a ‘bad’ woman for being involved with another woman’s husband. Please stop making excuses for this man – 99% of people when asked if they have been using you will deny it, even when they have. It’s the same if you call someone a liar. He is married and he has been having a dalliance with you for four years, albeit a very imbalanced, one sided one. It is easy to write him off as being unaware of his feelings and yada, yada, yada – you say this because you’re really talking about *yourself*. You and him are not the same people. Yes you have been blindly pursuing an old pattern but even so, much of what you have been doing is *conscious* behaviour. It’s not about his intentions, which let’s be real, were never up to much – he is not a numpty without a clue and don’t think of him or treat him as such because you’re actually only patronising the man and reducing him to being like a child. There are ‘cold’ men out there that don’t screw around behind their wife’s back, string another woman along for four years, send inappropriate texts, or have them sitting in hotel rooms. Stop making excuses for this man – at least if you’re going to make an excuse, do it for *yourself*! “He’s actually said he didn’t know what his feelings were for me because he wasn’t good expressing his thoughts and feelings.” My arse he doesn’t! Funny how it doesn’t stop him articulating sexts…. Remember – I’m not asking you to villainise the man, but stop making excuses and making him out to be a cold man who is a victim of his inability to express his feelings. He *is* a user – he has got off on you losing the run of yourself for four years and he has exploited the past history between you both.
Lynda from L
on 15/12/2011 at 9:46 pm
Hey Complicated,
I just wanted to give you feedback that you are sounding so much better today, more focused and really giving yourself a reality check..it’s great to see.
I’m the adult child of an alchoholic too and a Florence( I’ve attempted some huge and unfeasible renovation projects believe me!!) so your post reverberates.
Once you start putting yourself first then everything becomes easier. Just take it hour by hour…one of the best things is how your judgement alters and how you begin to trust the decisions you are making.What you want,need, your ambitions become validation enough. It is for me like completing’Growing Up,with better boundaries in place this time, boy! it is hard work though..
If you have been brought up in an alky family environment…it may be that you have been used to quelling feelings of anger, embarassment etc or that you behaved in certain ways to get parental support/love. You have made great progress in how you are beginning to link the family sources to your reactions to the MM. It’s brill to see that. Keep going. A Very Happy Birthday.
JadeSesame
on 13/12/2011 at 5:59 pm
Hey Complicated,
I went through the same experience several times and it’s too easy to cave into temptation, old habits are hard to break. But you do have to believe that it will get easier and better with time, as many of us here have testified. It’s frightening to think of how SMSes can take on a life of their own and how dependent one can become on them- I used to be euphoric, my heart would leap for joy when I got a “I miss u” text, I crashed when I didn’t get a response right away, I cried over a text, I can’t believe a stupid text could trigger all kinds of emotions. It caused so much frustration, anxiety, depression, stress and that was undeniably, dangerous. It’s not easy for all these feelings to evaporate overnight when you’ve invested so much of yourself so please be patient and gentle with yourself..
Just a gentle suggestion, have you thought about changing your phone number? In that case, you won’t be waiting around for a text. You don’t want to be a MM’s part-time SMS lover/sports banterer forever, do you? What is it that is keeping you in this situation? Fear of him forgetting you?
Complicated
on 15/12/2011 at 5:18 am
Hi JadeSesame,
Thank you so much for your kind comments. They were very much appreciated. Sounds like you’ve experienced some of the same things as I have. I too have felt the “highs” when receiving a text and the “lows” when I didn’t. The fear of him forgetting me is one of the things that has kept me in this situation. It certainly wasn’t the effort he was making for me that kept me here. In my head, I thought, if he forgets me, I wasn’t good enough and nothing that has happened over the past four year ever mattered. The texts that ran my life. the anxiety, depression, emotional investments, and frustration I allowed myself to put into this situation would all be for nothing. I know that is stupid to think, but that’s exactly what’s been in my mind lately. And I realize now, they really were all for nothing because nothing can come from this. There will be no fairytale/hollywood ending here. And that’s ok. Still hurts like hell though. I’d rather have someone who is comfortable saying how they feel and makes just as much effort for me as I do for them. I read someone’s comments on one of Nat’s posts saying being with these EUM/MM is like a challenge that we don’t want to lose and I’d agree with that. Honestly, it does feel like I’m giving up or failing by doing NC because I didn’t “win” him. But, from what I read, it will be worth it in the long run when I’ve had some time and distance to see the situation and him for what it/he really is. I’m learning from the new FBG book that it’s not about me not being good enough, it’s about him being an EUMM. Yes, I had thought about changing my number, just haven’t brought myself to do it. I thought it would just be easier to block his number, which I’m doing.
Trishamn
on 10/12/2011 at 11:20 pm
I think my EUM AC has run out of keys, tried kicking, cajoling, and even pretended two weeks that he was “accidentally” texting someone who was in the hospital who has a similar last name as me. I didn’t bite this time, no response, I’m so proud of myself and I realize that all his attempts as just as Nat described, pathetic and laughable. I’ve fallen for all his tricks in the past to resume contact and all he wants from me is my attention and for me to go back to fawning all over him and thinking he’s wonderful, his Facebook page is full of harem members and that’s a club I’m not joining. As Nat would say, he can just “sod off” I’m done with him and I’m dating a nice man now and taking things slow. I even kicked a “fantasy” relationship with someone I’ve been holding a torch for for over 5 years, I got the nerve up to actually speak to him and ask him questions…during our conversation, he told me 3 times that he’s “not a nice guy”. Well, guess what, I’m going to choose to believe him and not feed his ego with my attention either. Thanks to BR it’s like I’ve been given some kind of magic bullshit decoder ring, why couldn’t I see these AC’s for what they are, we’ll I see them for EXACTLY what they are now, and I’m deciding to choose me and PASS on the liars, cheaters and pain junkies.
colororange
on 11/12/2011 at 3:23 am
Trishamn,
One thing you said that reminded me of what Maya Angelou has said is “when someone tells you who they are, believe them.” So kudos to you for believing the guy the first time and not getting it in your head that you could change that fact. Be the exception.
If only I had “listened” when the MM showed me who he was over 4-years-ago when he was emailing me these wordy (some two pages long) and seductive emails, texting me, hanging out with me “after hours” and keeping it from his now wife (I wasn’t innocent either. I didn’t have the nerve to leave a man I was not really into). If I would have taken that as a red flag, gotten out of the relationship I was unhappy in and stayed single and not danced the dance, I would have saved myself a lot of heartache. Instead I took the bait this time when MM came around thinking….finally I have a chance with him….oh he’s back for me, oh he’s changed, oh it’s a sign, oh he’s in love with me too………and I’m slowly gathering (this part makes me cringe) since he claims his wife is gone a lot and “doesn’t know where the hell she is”, he decided to hit me up to pay that You Are A God attention to him like I used to. I was hung up on his words of “I appreciate you” and “You bring me smiles” and how he thought God must have been trying to tell him something that he still had my email address in his new phone and him telling me how good I was all the while reminding me he’s married and doesn’t want to lead me on. Not to mention inviting me to his house. Here I am thinking I have a shot in hell with him. But once I dropped the L word, he vanished. Or maybe it was when I was asking why he keeps me hanging and why he won’t call when he says he will. He has a similar passion that I do and it’s what partially kept me going for the ride and him too I imagine. That and I wanted a relationship with him so bad. And it doesn’t appear I’ll ever get one from him. He wanted to write to an attractive woman (me) so she’ll pay all kinds of attention to him and he’ll keep her in his back pocket when the wife’s not licking his arse.
But now I’ve talked myself into being pissed at him which is better than pining. I’ll finish my tea and movie now and go to bed.
Happy for you Trish
yoshizzle
on 11/12/2011 at 4:17 am
mine once told me, while drunk (not unusual) that he was “a bad man.”
can you IMAGINE what must go on behind that mask for him to think that about himself? good riddance.
Blue skies & sunshine
on 11/12/2011 at 10:12 am
Mine once wrote to me: “I don’t deserve you, and you don’t deserve what I do to you … yes, I may have made you happy sometimes, but invariably, in the end, I will just make you sad.”
Now there’s a startling piece of insight if ever I heard one. Was I listening? No.
Am I now? Hell yes.
runnergirl
on 11/12/2011 at 12:03 am
Last December after discovering BR, I figured out that I didn’t need to be friends with exes. ExMM #1 emailed me last December about getting together and I stupidly responded because I thought I had to even though I didn’t want to see him. Fortunately, he went cold, I discovered BR, and we never met. Fast forward to last July, he drops another email about getting together to “catch up”. I responded with the next email, text, and/or phone call would be forwarded directly to his wife. Haven’t heard a thing from that one since.
Apparently, ex’es don’t want their wives or girlfriends to know when they are in contact with their FBG’s?
Cheers to the FBG door. It’s Assclownville season. Keep the door locked, bolted, sealed, and shut. If you are an OW, make them ring in the holidays with their wives. They are married and are still married and not to the OW. La, la la….
colororange
on 11/12/2011 at 2:25 pm
runnergirl…..your post made me laugh. Thanks for that 🙂
“If you are an OW, make them ring in the holidays with their wives. They are married and are still married and not to the OW. La, la la….”
I’m sure MM won’t be slinking in these parts this holiday not after what happened. In this brief moment (I must be on the upside of this for today. Oh, God make it last PLEASE!!!), I must say I feel good knowing I have not gone back groveling or begging or whining or acting whacky to the MM. That is embarrassing and demoralizing. If his wife knew what he’d been doing and saying to me in the last 4+ years, I’m sure she’d be one pissed woman. She’d probably try and whoop my arse and kill his. I’m sure he’d never hear the end of it, and oh how he hates when she bitches at him. In this little moment, I say let him bring in the Christmas cheer and the New Year with his dear wife. And make kissy face under the mistletoe. And hold her tight next to the Christmas tree all the while he’s said sweet nothings to me and flirted with having a full-on affair. If I get too lonely, I’ll take a walk around the Christmas decorated park near my home or whatever. I might even visit a nice bar (that is soooo far out of my comfort zone!!!) just to see if anyone hits on me and show myself that, yes, there are other men in the world that would want me. I don’t necessarily have to do anything with them. Hell, I might bake some bread. At least that way I’ll have a LOAF and not CRUMBS.
runnergirl
on 12/12/2011 at 12:14 am
Hey Coloro,
Now you’re talking. You can make the upside last. Reading Nat’s book and the section on how much I gave to him in order to get him to give to me what I wanted really turned things around. If I gave to me 1/8th of what I gave to him, I wouldn’t have settled for him. I hope you went for a walk in the park and baked bread and ate the whole loaf. You made me laugh. The only way we are going to get the whole loaf is if we provide it for ourselves. I’m thinking we may not be so willing to settle for crumbs once we’ve tasted the whole loaf? Just be careful at a bar seeking external validation. You’ll probably find it. Oh Natalie, sounds like we need the Miss Independent Miss Self-Sufficient sequel!
The exMM used to hate when I wouldn’t respond to his stupid, lazy, sorry excuse for being a cheating liar, text messages while he was with his wife and family during the holidays. I still have to do a round in my backyard of kicking my arse for being a party to such sh*t. During the final suck it and see weekend in July, his wife put a tail on us, hacked his email, and cell. We weren’t in contact for several months so why she chose that weekend is still a mystery. According to his version, his wife would be filing for divorce in August when the last kid left home. Quite a discrepancy. Haven’t heard from him since and I haven’t contacted him. A comment on BR stuck with me: Do I want to be the one who wouldn’t go away or the one who got away. I do feel tremendously bad, sorry, and accountable for how his wife must feel after 27 years of marriage to find her husband was cheating on her. It just makes me shiver and my skin crawl to know I was that woman. NC is the only way out. No more holidays via text. They show up under the tree in person on Christmas or they get the door slamming them in the ass.
colororange
on 12/12/2011 at 3:38 pm
runnergirl,
“Do I want to be the one who wouldn’t go away or the one who got away”
THAT is powerful. About felt shivers go up my arms at that. Too many times I was the one that would not go away. My anxiety was steering my ship to try and PLEASE make the man stay. You know that anxiety, that OMG please don’t go. Nearing, or is, borderline personality disorder. Today my “upside” is a little lower but seeing your post brought me back up a bit. Seeing a new doctor today. I hope like heck she’s a good one. I’m on a new insurance and it has limited my access to doctors. I may look back into meds for anxiety/depression. I want out of this rut so bad. I’m so sick of feeling depressed every single day of my life and then it’s multiplied when I am going through this … stepping away from….the MM. On to living moment to moment…..
angela
on 11/12/2011 at 12:05 am
i’m on no contact again for the 3rd time. ignored his texts and emails over the thanksgiving (i’m in los angeles) holiday. 3 friggen times i was duped – all for a ghost relationship with a future faker, liar, malignant narcissist. i’m stronger now and i guess i needed these terrible lessons so i won’t repeat them. so much to say..i’m still angry, but i’m getting closer to apathy, i think….happy holidays to all you folks out there closing the door on your Prince Harming!
Elle
on 11/12/2011 at 8:01 am
Just back from a party to celebrate the wedding a couple of weeks ago of a friend – who’s 39 – and her new man. She has two kids (so not exactly easy) from previous marriage. But, he’s lovely and they’re planning on extending the brood. She’d had a really unhappy time of it in first marriage – for various reasons, due to timing and compatibility (essentially, they were sh*thouse communicators together). She had to learn how to enforce boundaries as a co-parent, how to communicate with her ex in a new way, and open herself up again. And it’s turned out superbly well for all of the individuals involved. Happy news item!
Lovingme
on 11/12/2011 at 11:04 am
Hi, first of all I’ve changed my name from my real name, Karen, to ‘lovingme’ cos that’s what I’m doing! This article is so spot on, as usual, my ex tried numerous different tactics to get my door open after more than 3 months no contact ~ I eventually opened that door, only to be taken to new heights of humiliation, he was not interested in getting back with me, stepping up to the mark and being the man he professed to be, he just wanted to be in control and I fell for it big time, I even ‘begged’ yes begged him not to leave me, how humiliating, only for him to let me find out he had moved on, got a new lady friend! I thought I was gonna die, the pain was so bad but you know what, all that time NC was not a waste because I haven’t gone back to step one and I’ve actually gone well beyond that, I’m MOT saying that every day is easy but I am saying that, that door is well and truly closed and I also think I’m passed the grieving stage now and ready to look at, why, when all the warning signs were there, glaring atxme from the very beginning, did I allow the faux relationship to continue and last over 5 years??? I’ve got my pen & paper out & I’m writing writing writing & I will make sense of this and I will never open that door, why would I even want to be friends with someone who I really don’t like, the person I was fooled/manipulated into falling in love with doesn’t even exist, evev his name is not his name and there are a load of lies around that but, this is not about him anymore, it’s about my part in it, my responsibility and what I do about that and one of the most liberating things I am experiencing right now is that fact that I am not even going to think about being in another relationship/meeting another man for the next two years ~ it’s very freeing, very liberating, slowly but surely I’m getting there ~ man, what am I gonna be like in two years time when I’ve achieved so much already ~ I’ll be fighting the men off with sticks ~ that AC was by no means my last chance saloon, he was what brought me to my knees and made me realise, beyond doubt that I didn’t love myself enough or look after myself well enough, so thank you AC for giving me this gift, but, by the way, the doors still locked hahahaha x
grace
on 11/12/2011 at 2:02 pm
ha, someone just posted this on my FB:
Better to have loved and lost than to live with the psycho for the rest of your life.
Fearless
on 12/12/2011 at 1:03 am
Nice one Grace!
Healing One
on 11/12/2011 at 3:44 pm
Men who do this stuff (and men of ALL ages do this stuff) are immature and limited. It takes a strong woman who loves herself FIRST to close the door and keep it closed. And that takes time and probably lots of exposure to men like this! But we learn from our mistakes–and it’s great to have this site where we can share our wisdom with each other. Your life is YOURS. I feel privileged and blessed every day to own my own life–and to keep anyone out who doesn’t deserve me.
Michelle
on 12/12/2011 at 2:24 pm
You are so right! These guys are a dime a dozen, really. I had to date more than a few to finally “get it.”
jennynic
on 11/12/2011 at 6:55 pm
I heard this song today and thought it was appropriate to share it in the spirit of NC and starting over. Alanis Morissette, Not As We
Let’s not forget the backdoor; also close all windows and some exes even might take the Santa Claus approach – down the chimney!!!! On the flipside, we have to assure that we don’t feel imprisoned in our own homes and fall prey to our INNER Assclown. – But hearing doors being slammed shut – GREAT! If you let him walk in, in most cases he will walk all over you.
Reading it as a list “…sending you dumb jokes ….etc…” I thought hell, this could be a wonderful script for a one man theatre piece – imagine a stage with a closed door as sole prop that stays shut through the whole performance and an assclown pulling all stunts possible with all dramatic skill – from the viewpoint as onlooker the absurdity would become quite clear and in the end as reader Lo J wrote “The BIG BAD WOLF walks away with his tail between his legs … “. Curtain.
To be fair it should come in a male and female version.
Elle
on 12/12/2011 at 3:04 am
Yes, women and men, not least because there was that US woman who, about a year ago, was so embittered by her AC-man that she ended up not taking his hints and breaking into his house via the chimney, the chimney in which she promptly got stuck and died. While I think he was almost certainly a piece of work, this was quite a desperate stunt.
Lynda from L
on 11/12/2011 at 10:59 pm
I take this post on chin, went back…and regretted it. Had my life turned upside down again…same deal, same promises and same ultimate cowardice… On my side still willingness to sign up for the false deal to assuage reality which was tough at that time. It’s a hard pill to swallow.
My weakness is still with me day by day. Today I am angry at myself, have come through denial, anger at him,depression and feel enraged by myself as I sit and write this today… Why did I take the double standard, why did I even momentarily doubt my logic,belief system, intelligence…. I have to believe that this is the route to being healthier?
I post on here and give advice,ask for empathy,share experience but a lot of sadness at the place I find myself today remains. My only suffrage or solace at the moment is that to get it out there means something…and to still hope for a reasonable life or even a happy life and that means something. It means a lot actually.
Australia
on 12/12/2011 at 12:13 am
Lynda, I don’t know what your situation is exactly, but I want to give you a big hug and say that from all the pain, comes a giant lesson. Going through emotional hell, and to come out alive gives us strength. Why we do some of the things we do? Why we give some people chances despite what we know? We are human and we want to love.
You will go on to a live a VERY HAPPY life, not just one that is ‘reasonable’. Don’t knock yourself down when the future is unwritten. Hold your head high.
runnergirl
on 12/12/2011 at 12:46 am
Lynda from L,
I hear you and you have my empathy. Every time I broke NC in the beginning mostly via phone, email, and text, it was simply more of the same. He was only offering “fish”. I wanted more than “fish”. Every time I broke NC to see if he was going to offer more than “fish” and found that was all he was ever going to offer, I got angry too. Angry at him, angry at me, angry at the whole world. At some point (maybe now), I just had to accept that he wasn’t ever going to give me what I wanted/needed. Maybe I’ve just now started to see that I can give me what I want. I wanted him to fill my void. I assigned him the responsibility for my well-being and I demanded that he do so. NC has allowed me to see that the only one responsible for my well-being is me. No wonder he shirked that responsibility. It wasn’t his responsibility in the first place. It was mine. I shirked it by being with him.
It may sound totally whacky but there is hope. It is within you.
Elle
on 12/12/2011 at 3:11 am
LFL, I think forgiving oneself is the hardest part of all this – this is where we falter and feel bad, because I don’t think we really know how to do it: how to conclude resentment at ourselves for causing ourselves harm? I don’t know the answer. But it is part of a process. Once you feel more confident – through other experiences, you start to see yourself in a gentler light, as someone, as you said of yourself, in a situation where a relationship, of almost any sort, seemed like the best way through. Plus, until you experience this, it really is hard to imagine being fooled like this. Yes, we contributed to our own demise, but, we were often also lied to, seriously manipulated, treated without care, and, in some cases, downright abused. Add to this the fact that when you’re stressed and anxious, it’s very hard to hear our instincts, let alone act on them. I just don’t see anything so terrible in someone wanting a relationship (love, affection, support), especially in a context in which you also want to hand over responsibility for your life, have a break from reality, be able to give up control for a while. Sure, it ends in doom, but it’s pretty easy to see how it happens. Try to smile at yourself that you’re so sweet and open to life that you’re liable to be fooled every now and then. You want to preserve some of this, this vulnerability.
Tess
on 12/12/2011 at 3:19 am
Lynda, your story could be my story…
I too am so angry. At myself, at him. The relationship so changed my life and my family’s. I am angry that I allowed him to lie and manipulate me, and just disappear time and time again, while I’d be sent reeling. I told myself he was screwing with my mind, but his jekyl hyde behavior would fool me, he was so smooth. A great lover, a caretaker, the life of the party. And I loved him. Sometimes I think I still do.
He is a text -book AC/EUM- I never thought he’d be like that. He warned me not to fall in love, but he was the first to tell me he loved me. And I made excuses for his behavior, I helped deposit myself here. That I am sad about. And just recently he “apologized”- meant to free himself from guilt I’m sure, so he can go on with his merry life, unscathed. There was little about me or us in the so-called apology, just a made up Bogart-Bacall fantasy to make me believe it just wasn’t meant to be. He admits no responsibility for the hell he’s put me through, despite my being a willing victim. When I told him it didn’t have much to do with us, he just said I don’t know him as well as I think I do… He definitely isn’t the man I fell in love with for sure!
“Why did I take the double standard, why did I even momentarily doubt my logic, belief system, intelligence…” your words, Lynda. And mine! How can intelligent women get hoodwinked by these ACs? I am left to pick up the pieces, and while I know I can and will, the depression and sadness compounded by the holidays has me feeling as if it’s killed me. I wish I could give you a hug, and you, me. I could use it.
Thanks, Nat
Lynda from L
on 12/12/2011 at 4:05 pm
Australia. Runner, Elle Tess. Thankyou.
I had a bad day yesterday, came on again and saw such words of support that have gone straight to my heart.
Truly he cannot touch me now, I have stayed true to my course for a while now with regard to what I need and want and his didn’t come close..although for a while he said and pretended it did.
I do wonder if before acceptance comes this getting tough with yourself bit, because I literally am looking at all parts of my life these days and shouting ‘L what were you thinking??’ I need to woman up and move on.
Australia/ I believe this too,like steel actually, there is tempering going on when you come out of the other side, you are stronger.
Runner/ I love your posts…yes every time I got less. Stated clearly what I was after, was denigrated. This is the crux of my pain. At myself, that I let it happen and for someone who had clearly being doing it for a while, interchangeably, with other women.
Elle, wise woman. Yep I need to forgive myself and be gentler. I am pretty sweet in my way…I laughed at that when I read it.
I was seriously manipulated, then history was rewritten at the stroke of his pen. I get that now. It’s his loss. Above all, and you have saved me here… I do want to preserve some of my vulnerablity. He isn’t going to have all of that!
Tess, yes,yes…he engaged my family. My elderly relatives came to stay in his house, I met his kids,wanted him to see more of my adult son. It was superficial, designed to show him in a good light. Goalposts shifted weekly and it was always my fault…
I am pretty good today and I hope we all continue to get better, reflect and soar. Thankyou and thanks to Nat x
Hello Lynda, I just realised I read your comment when I was half asleep last night and I remember wondering if you were saying you’d reached out to your ex.
Let me say this to you – you were having a bad day or a bad few days and that is perfectly OK and *natural*. Sometimes you have to tip back a little to yank yourself forward. It’s part of the grieving process. Busting your proverbial balls doesn’t help you. If I languished on all of my mistakes and relationship pain, I wouldn’t be where I am. It’s not that I’ve pressed the Reset Button – it’s just that I’ve accepted that I did the best I could do under the circumstances with what little tools and reference to relationships I had at the time. Bearing in mind your own childhood, you have to teach yourself the things that your parents failed to do. Yeah it’d be nice if they’d stepped up – but they didn’t. You are now and as a result, you must be *patient* with yourself.
You also need to remember that you suffered hurt and a loss – with that comes a myriad of emotions. You’re not made of stone and truth be told, your ex was a twerp who messed with your head. Ultimately Elle is right – it’s his loss.
Lynda from L
on 12/12/2011 at 4:59 pm
Thanks Natalie, love that analogy about tipping to yank myself forward. Yes, have been really hard on myself for a week or two, when that florence turns in, she turns in!
I’m free of him,safe,safe safe but not the feelings yet and I know I’ve got to take that gently..thanks for the reminder of my early stuff too. It’s always good to see things in panoramic vision but you’re right, I need to view things a bit at a time..be patient.
Jacey
on 12/12/2011 at 12:42 am
No contact really WORKS. It is difficult – VERY DIFFICULT – but I’ve challenged myself to commit to it and I’m taking it a day at a time. I never thought I could be this strong and escape the drama, excitement, disappointments and hurt I’ve allowed to absorb my life on a daily basis for the past 6 months. I have only been doing this for 2 weeks and it has already made a massive improvement to my sanity and self esteem. I still miss him and get a thrill when he tries to get my attention but I have no intention of giving up now – that door is shut and it’s staying shut.
Tracy
on 12/12/2011 at 1:02 am
I never even knew that the “No Contact” idea existed. Never really needed to, until now. And I so get it and why I need to do it; I have signed the contract. Thanks Natalie. Truly.
This weekend was hard, 3 weeks in. It was not hard to not make contact, it makes me sick to see at him (and he lives around the corner and we live in a small town)…moreso just coping with “me” and my own resurfacing emotions of stunned disbelief, sadness, hurt ND anger at all the lies he told me. And that i was reeled in, simply taking those words at face value as being truth with no clue that he was lying. And, I think, what set me off this weekend, to be truthful, the incredibly hurt of being rejected. Not being told anything or having any explanation, just rejected…for the second time in a year. Sheesh. (Imagine me hitting my forehead 😉
But I came back here to read….then went and put up my Christmas Tree with thoughtfulness and gratitude, beautifully decorated my “closed and locked!!!” (brilliant to insert the Jack Nicholson photo, Natalie) front door, put on my running shoes and headed out for a head clearing run by the ocean.
While you all may not know it, you all helped me so much today. Thank you.
Lia
on 12/12/2011 at 1:37 am
“It’s the same when you have an ex that attempts to get their foot through your proverbial door by any means necessary…sending you dumb jokes, weather and sports commentary, asking if you’re friends yet, provoking you with information about them with a new person, sending nasty messages, sending apologetic messages, turning up, moaning to your friends, pitching themselves to your family, slagging you off knowing full well that you’ll hear it back and may confront them, making up lies, claiming that they’re ill, claiming that they’re dying, claiming someone else has died, claiming that they don’t think they can live anymore, saying that they have to get something from your place even though there’s nothing there, reneging on agreements to pay you back, claiming that they’ll leave their wife/husband/partner, claiming that they’re almost ready to leave, and the list goes on.”
LOL I used to wonder why things like that happen. I spent a lot, and I mean A LOT of time pissed off about someone dragging out paying me back money. He agreed to return it to me, but then gave me an indefinite date for as to when it would actually be returned. So I would call “just to check up on him”, when really I was trying to stay on his good side so I could have my money back. It never worked because at the end of the day as long as he had that over me I would continue to call him and be on my best behavior for him. But the littlest things would set him off and he would give me the silent treatment until I came crawling back and apologizing for him being angry. But it didn’t matter, it didn’t matter what I said, he was in control of the situation and I was succumbing to his will. I underestimated him and ended up wasting a lot of time thinking that I could control the uncontrollable…Fast forward to now, the money has yet to be returned (big surprise there right?), the only difference is that I don’t feel like I have to have it anymore. Ah the freedom, it feels great!
Franny
on 12/12/2011 at 10:19 am
I started no contact 2years ago now, n to be quite honest I cnt cope. I feel so shit. N his just getting on with his life with the mother of his child nt a care in the world. I went thru so much with him and for him that I feel like I have been left with nothing and no one. Only this mornin I broke NC , n it ending it me flippin out and hurtin n him not caring. I feel like I need to hear why I was treated the way I was and he doesn’t answer me. I wish I wish I wish I never went through this . I have had panic attacks, thought of endin my life, written diaries. Nothing works. I dnt know what to do. I feel like I’m losin my mind.
I’m grateful for this site n I check back regularly and have read every post about 50 times lol.
Franny
on 12/12/2011 at 12:09 pm
I’m not strong enough to be without him and I’m not strong enough to be ‘the other woman’
I should add that being the Other Woman is just ‘alone’ by another name. Or ‘without them’ in another name. He’s just not *that* special. I don’t know how old you are, but you managed to eat, breathe and live for however many years before he came along – don’t give him anymore ass credit than he’s due.
mirelle
on 12/12/2011 at 10:00 pm
Hi, Franny
You are not MEAN enough to be an OW with no remorse. A “professional” OW with no character, no conscience and no remorse wouldn’t lose her time on thinking about her deeds.She would be proud to be an OW.
The OW thing is not for women with a good heart. Good women become OW accidentally and this destroys their self esteem, feel guilty, ashamed, hopeless and helpless. It’s against their whole being, against their life principles and their values. They’re unlucky women, like you, or I, or other OW here who happened to meet a manipulative AC, in a weak moment of their life.
That’s why you feel like this right now. Because you have a good heart, not because you’re weak. Focus on that.
When I was with the ex MM, I met an old friend for a drink and told him about the relationship. He was very angry with me. “How could you do this to yourself??? I have known you for 15 years, you were such a lovely child, you are not like this. You’ll be sorry for doing this to yourself”.
And he was right. Now I’m sorry that I put myself in such a humiliating position for a woman. I’m sorry that I killed that lovely child.
Franny
on 13/12/2011 at 9:14 am
You are right. And I am a good person. My heart is pure and I am ashamed of what I have become. Part of my problem is because I am a good person and I believed he also is a good person. He took my NC as a sign to make things work with her and I think part of me expected him to turn round and fix things with me.
I know I shudnt be feeling like this. I see people who have gone through it and come out happy and a better, stronger person all within months. I’m jus sick of this feeling n on top of that I really miss him. I spent everyday of 3yrs with him n now it looks like I’m gna spend everyday of the next 3yrs mourning, hurting and regretting.
Franny
on 12/12/2011 at 2:08 pm
Thank you Natalie, Ive read all ur posts over n over. im 24 ( i shudnt b feeling like this right?). I just feel like i should be over all this by now ( when we was together i had an abortion, i also regret this but i dnt kno if i regret it for the wrong reasons). Sometimes i feel like i shud jus go back and settle …. how messed up is that.
Hi Franny, you can’t hurry up getting over pain and a loss. If you were supposed to be over it now, you would be. What slows the process of course is if you’re invested in something that keeps you in denial which will also keep you in grief. It’s bad enough to go through an abortion which can really be quite distressing emotionally, without also being in a *secret* relationship. It’s isolating and distorting.
24 or 84, you shouldn’t be feeling like this or in a relationship like this at *any* age.
I’m sure you do regret it but it’s probably tangled up with regretting being involved with this clown in the first place. You can’t do much with regret beyond applying it to your future so you can learn your lessons. Remaining with this man will not make it worth while – it’s like trying to get a return on a bad investment. Let this difficult experience shine a light on the fact that you need to flush his arse pronto. Don’t let this man use you up for another moment. I know it feels like a lot to lose, but really, getting pregnant and going through the abortion must be the wake up call to ditch him.
Oh and you can’t settle for an attached man – there’s nothing to settle for as he belongs to someone else. It’s like settling for air, toxic air at that.
Franny
on 12/12/2011 at 5:37 pm
Im so grateful for this. i havent been able to talk to no one, n he hasnt been interested in hearing my feelings since i stopped being whatever i was to him. i should add we were best friends for yrs b4 i became the other woman for 3 years. i never saw this coming.
Going through it was emotionally distressing , i took comfort in the fact he said we will have a family in the future. And i expected him to see that as sign things need change but 2months later his gf had an abortion too.
i thought i was a strong an intelligent person but how could i still love and want this man. i ask myself will i ever get past it, past him. i feel i hurt less when i was with him but i do kno i shud never go back there. n i refuse to go back to bein his friend.
Michele
on 12/12/2011 at 2:15 pm
“They don’t want you, they just want to win.”
This is something we should all remember! I think this feeling comes into play very often in the process of breaking up. I have been on both sides of it. Granted its not always a conscious thing, but more often it is more than likely an unconscious motivation. The desires to have closure, or an explanation, or one last time together, or to know why xy and z is (fill in the blank), etc, I think are highly motivated by wanting to win. At some point you realize or at least have flashes of clear thinking where you realize you don’t really want the other person. It’s the pursuit and the victory that begins to motivate. The good times and the good qualities are far away from your mind; you just want to win.
Great insight! Thank you!
Lynda from L
on 12/12/2011 at 5:27 pm
yeah Michelle, been there.. I see this now as trying to’make sense of the illogical’ last piece of puzzle stuff and thinking back I think he was motivated by the desire to score points too..
He had a girlfriend(one before me actually)who after much long suffering.. I know that now…had actually just got up and left. Completely incommunicado. It rocked him, more the idea of how anyone could do that to him. Despite the fact he had been emotionally unavailable to her for nearly two years. I wondered if she had got baggage reclaim?!
My regret is that I didn’t take a leaf out of her book sooner because I went for a month or two and then came back for a further six months or so. Although I am well clear now, I couldn’t break as cleanly and in my opinion, with these guys, it is the only way. I wasted 17 months playing a game that had no outcome, it was never in the rules from the outset. I now think that he didn’t want me per se, he wanted to win.
anoosh
on 13/12/2011 at 1:03 pm
“I wasted 17 months playing a game that had no outcome, it was never in the rules from the outset.” omg Lynda, that really hit me. I totally feel for you, where you’re at. I’ve been reading this post and all the comments, spending time trying to compose something on this whole topic — but as usual, NML has already come up with another important thing to think about (holiday crack post), so I think I missed the boat :). your one line really says it all for me, actually. I stuck to NC for 6 months, broke it in July, since then it’s been what NML called “low level contact, high level feelings territory.” so, I wouldn’t say I’m back to Square One exactly, for me in this situation it’s better that I had the chance to leave it behind having achieved a bit more peace w/this man. thankfully there is BR, so I have a better framework for the real moving on. for the last 4 months, I guess he was trying to prove to himself that he wasn’t a total bastard, so we were talking. I thought that was positive and healing, considering how much I love him. but he wasn’t inching back towards “Us”, as he made clear in our last convo — though he was sending mixed messages, doing all the initiating, sending dvd’s he made for me. the reality is 2+ years later he’s still Separated Man W/Kids, not Divorced Man Ready For Real Relationship. he gave me a totally inaccurate picture at the outset about what was going to happen — never told me when he moved out that he planned to continue long-term seeing the kids at the house, not bringing them into his new space and creating a new life. I’m sure the ex is happy, b/c that leaves the door open to reunite, which I’m sure she wants. what woman could tolerate that? absolutely ALL of the heartache and pain could have been prevented by me uttering a few simple words, “Call me when you’re free and clear”. the year of the blissful obstacle course to True Love wasn’t worth what I’ve endured since. It still hurts like hell. if I’d ignored him since July, would I have been further along the road to being 100% over him? I don’t know. this has gotten into my DNA like no other breakup I’ve ever gone through. it doesn’t make sense to me. but — there it is. and here I am, on Baggage Reclaim, back to the NC drawing board…
Lynda from L
on 13/12/2011 at 6:33 pm
Hey Anoosh, yeah, I remember your posts about this guy before…it’s totally ‘cake and eat it’ mind games he’s playing. I get what you are saying about the’totally inaccurate picture at the outset too’ and how that is just so painful when you have to unravel what is actually being presented.
What’s helping me just now is confirming to myself that I was manipulated…he didn’t just infer a future, he invented it. I actually, a few weeks before I went no contact, stated what I wanted, quite clearly and specifically and he swerved. It was like I was looking at a different relationship.
Strangely that helped. Has been the wake-up call I needed. I wrote down and still refer to it now when weakening…just what was actually on the table for him. Basically, company(when he wanted it),sex,humour,backrubs,someone to accompagny him when he saw fit…etc. No shared life in reality at all. Yet, he had kept on dangling the life, moving in together,our future, sharing ups and downs..actually planning it. If it got close…he found something wanting in me. This usually ended in hours of verbal abuse. It was very important that he saw himself as a good person,dad,general gentleman… I wondered if your guy was signing up to same crock of sh*t? My guy was significantly verbally toxic, not a gentleman at all. There were cycles of warmth and then awful behaviour.
NC for me Anoosh, is the only way to go. I get what you say about an ‘obstacle course’ but I just think why put myself through that again. The pain of the continual carrot dangling is severe?
You would have been further along the road believe me. I still get texts and e mails from him but I ignore them, they are about his need to absolve himself and nothing to do with me. These guys are in it for themselves and their own outcomes. I get the DNA, I get it Anoosh but I just think we have to alter our DNA on this one for survival. Thinking of you tonight.
agirliknow
on 13/12/2011 at 8:53 pm
Lynda ~ & I’m thinking of you today. Read a lot of your post today (and all the great replies) and sit with a blank face with tears in my eyes and just nod yes. I know. Me too. It’s all that “seeing themselves as a good person” bs that helped me put him on a pedestal. One where as Nat says, he was always looking down at me. So with all my intellect, I still had the minimal relationship tools to understand that two good people do not always equal a healthy relationship. I pulled every fuzzy math calculation I could, but was still trying to get 2 + 2 to equal 5 (square pegs, round holes.) Frustration, humiliation and I pray realization are all I have to face. I’ve already been the “good girl”. Enough. Good man or not, he wasn’t to me. Actually punished me for trying to get close to him. Sounds like what you went through. And I rationalized, minimalized, excused….even when he would say “I’m sorry I’m so mean…” I would “Oh, you’re not mean, its okay….” UGH! Makes me sick. How can you know one thing and behave anything but what you know like that. It does catch up to you. So yea. My door is FINALLY shut too. So virtual hug from me too. See you on the Christmas post.
anoosh
on 15/12/2011 at 3:10 pm
thanks Lynda from L, means a lot :). you’re right, my DNA needs to change! I’m so tired of listening to myself, sounding like a broken record. I guess we all have different versions with these EUMs, with the same outcome (none). mine was never anything but a prince for the whole first part, totally swept me off my feet. we were friends in college (20+ yrs ago), and to me he was still that same sweet lovely guy. he hooked me in with the story of how his marriage was long over, since his wife had an affair for years, he was trapped there for the kids & house. I was clear I wouldn’t get involved unless he was at least divorcing and got legally separated– so he did! that just took my breath away. yes, he totally “invented” a future with me, moved mountains to convince me that was the road we were on. I swear to you, never in my life have I felt so adored, loved, appreciated, etc. that’s what is so hard– I still miss him so much :(. I thought those “obstacles” were just situational, I just needed to be patient, because here was The One, that *intuition* that all these other friends of mine who are happy long-term said they knew right away they had with their “One”. he was so caring, nurturing, sweet. until the moment he pulled the rug, and I don’t know where that One disappeared to. the last few months of contact, he was being more of his old self, but always stopping short of any actual romantic talk. anyway, none of this matters, not all the effort to get over it, the NC, the last year & half of praying for a “miracle”, nor my recent slip in revealing my feelings. he was clear that “you’re there, I’m here (yadda yadda)”, he’s unavailable, and he doesn’t want me to think our talking is leading to more, and he “doesn’t want to hurt me again.” I wish I could say I was wise enough after how much time I’ve put in on myself, BR, etc, not to have allowed any glimmer of hope deep down. I wish I could say I was like all these people I see who go through serious breakups, brush themselves off after a few months and go out and find new Loves. I used to be more like that. but this just crushed my soul so badly for whatever reason, it still makes me so sad. until 35 or so, I believed there were plenty of fish in the sea– no longer. or, at least, whatever my great qualities are, they sure as hell aren’t attracting any anymore. yah, NC, sigh…
yoghurt
on 12/12/2011 at 7:56 pm
You know, when I look at my son’s father, I sometimes get rocked with this whole ‘I don’t even know you!’ weirdness. I don’t think it’s him that I’m hung up about – in fact I’ve got no doubt that if he’d been into me then I’d’ve dropped him… nicely, and certainly more nicely than he dropped me myriad times, but I would’ve.
It’s all been about chasing the power, fretting over losing the power and trying to get the power back. And failing because, ultimately, I had more of a conscience and I was more bothered than he was.
Not a nice thing to realise. But comforting to realise that he’s just Some Dude With Power and not the Lost Love Of My Life…
Lynda from L
on 14/12/2011 at 3:03 pm
@ Agirl I know. Thanks so much for that. We should perhaps have been suspicious of a guy who has to tell us how good and decent they are repeatedly, methinks?
I get you completely when you say’the looking down’bit, I realise now that he did that..despite any attributes or professionalism I may have had,he found me wanting. I’ve said before on site AGIK, that if I’d jumped through a hoop, the next one would have been higher,set on fire, whilst juggling, etc.
I am a stone’s throw from realisation, simply do not want to analyse it anymore. Was on last night and got Nat’s old post about how if they start to rewrite the history of the relationship…Let them. She had written about having to pretend she was still engaged at party!!That helped a lot, I just have to live with the fact that he lies about what really happened to justify his self construct.
I have to go beyond that and let him fill his boots.
Yeah, also with you on…’He punished me for getting close to him’ towards the latter descent of it all, I was keeping diary and had BR. I began to see that a wkend of closeness and promises and great times would be swiftly followed by withdrawal, moroseness or fault finding. I also knew by that time that I was working my arse off to make it work.. I will not, like you, detract from how hard I tried. I got lost in the maze of future faking and wanting to be his exception. God, he’s treated women badly.
Hey, I’ve had relationships before that ended well for sensible reasons, even my marriage ended because of accepted incompatibility, as adults. This was different. Excrutiating hurt. I hurt and need to recover.
He was a malicious bastard. He had history of being so.
I am actually quite a fan of self preservation(LOL)so it is time for me to fully bail, emotionally as well as it’s less arduous sister physically. If I have anything left it is a sense of loss for him, because although successful in career he was a piece of swiss cheese. He ate too much, drank too much,wanted sex as a’soma’pill,ate up culture,told himself he was living the good life, will distract himself forever, He said goodbye to’Authentic’ a long time ago…perhaps never knew it. This sounds harsh as a recovering Florence, but, not my worry. I do not say that lightly and I bet you don’t too?
By the way, you are great, your post moved me on, I read it again and again…
Michelle
on 12/12/2011 at 2:19 pm
It can seem like the hardest thing in the world to ignore him, but it DOES get easier. I slammed the door shut on my AC, after which he came by my house once and sent some lame texts afterwards. I kept ignoring, even though it was really hard. I have finally forgotten about him after five months (I know, too long, but I am a fantasizer) and nothing he can do or say would make me want to give it another “shot.” He is done. Time has cleared my head and made me see him for what he is… a big-time loser.
“Heeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre’s Johnny!” So appropriate in this article. LOL!
Beckceci
on 12/12/2011 at 5:13 pm
I am now on my 19th day of NC with the man with whom I broke it once and lived to regret it. I am having an excruciatingly hard time with it. Thanks to everyone’s support here, I could make it past the guilty feelings I had about having sent a nasty email, and yada yada yada. I think the moment required such a reaction, he acted in complete disregard of my feelings (not the first time) and so I called him one single name. Whatever.
But I miss him. I have not broken contact and neither has he, so I guess my comment is a little off-topic (he’s not knocking at my door – did it once and I caved, but that was in the past). But I need to get this off my chest. And you all have been such a source of strength so far for me.
In a total reversal of things, I feel rejected now because I found out he deleted me from Messenger (I had him blocked, and you could say – as I repeat to myself time and time again – why bother if you were never going to contact him again anyway???), but somehow that got to me big time. It may be the approaching holidays, it may be that yesterday was our “one-year anniversary” (which I had never thought I would spend like this: doing NC of all things), a moment of weakness… I don’t know.
I try to listen to all the corageous women commenting here, that it gets better with time. That’s all I’ve got right now, because no matter what I do (and I try to follow every advice I have read on how to deal when you get the urge to make contact or feel sad and lonely and depressed: I take long walks, take care of my little garden, call up a friend/relative, have people over to my house, whatever): I feel lonely without him, I second-guess my decision, I feel so weak!!
In any case, maybe it’s the first stages of grief. I know so much: I will not make contact. I will have to go through it, there is no going around it. But it hurts so so so much.
Thank you ladies and thank you Nat. You all are a source of strength for me right now. I am sending you all my hugs.
Maryellen11
on 12/12/2011 at 6:58 pm
Excellent piece of writing which makes perfect sense. I’ve done the nc rule. It was very hard at first but 2 months on I finally have control of my life, freedom and lots of space in my mind to think of positive things. Thank you for your words they have been a great support to me and I know feel I have direction in my life again and my experience hasn’t scared me from future relationships.
Josie
on 12/12/2011 at 7:17 pm
I was contacted last week by my ex and it really made me laugh out loud. He wanted to know if I was dating anyone. I replied ‘yes and it’s going really well” I happened to mention that my new guy was in the armed services and all of a sudden my ex was questioining me about how old this new guys was, what unit was he on, where did he serve and I just said…”hey, that’s part of my new life and I don’t really want to share that with you”//he then said..”Does your new guy know who I am..that’s not fair!” (what an asshole!!) I said “yes he does we may meet at reunions and its important for someone I am involved with seriously now to have some idea of my life” …….So then my ex said “I don’t want you meddling in my life!!! wtf or messing with my train track!!”
So its funny that my getting my life back and basically being happy is all about him and the fact that I date someone who has been in the armed services like ex had been, somehow contravenes some sort of dating rule and I am supposed to disclosethe name of my new guy is to my ex. WtF
Look ass clown the door is closed. I am not obliged to tell you zip!
It made me laugh though!! What the hell was that conversation really about?
Mui
on 12/12/2011 at 7:30 pm
this Nat is exactly what i am experiencing at the moment! The switches between downright nasty and most awaful behavior and something nice are extreme. Mine is trying to kick as much money as he can out of me for the house we both own and next he is sending a present with a card. How f’d up is this, i still cant get my head round that. It makes me quite scared what these types are capable of….. Do they get violant at some point of NC?
Lynda from L
on 12/12/2011 at 11:17 pm
Hi Miu,
Remember if the door is firmly shut…these guys will try and get in the window…or down the effin chimney! By that I mean they will alter their type of verbals,sometimes cajoling, then back to insults again,an apology and then possibly threats. They are basically using all weapons in their arsenal. My ex was very verbally abusive and the switch was quickly flicked… if there is even a suggestion of violence or regular threats seek support and report threats. I agree the switch can be very frightening and can be a sign of deeper issues with anger.
ChiTownKitty
on 12/12/2011 at 9:02 pm
OMG read this minutes after checking my inbox…things have been silent for a while with my EU/MM/AC. Then another message trying to lure me in. I think he misses all the special holiday time attention he got from me.
After reading it part of me wanted to ask “What the hell are you doing? Who’s more important me or your wife?” but mercifully I didn’t. I haven’t responsed at all.
Yet, I feel the way Natalie mentioned. That there was something about it that made me feel like less of a person–that he would think I was that stupid/desperate/idiotic/needy enough to want to hear from him even after specifically saying that I don’t.
Its been a year since the big break-up and months since the last time I responsed to him. When I am tempted to contact him I play out a conversation in my head…
No, we are not friends (Im not friends with liars)
No, I dont want you (I want someone who only wants me)
No, I dont love you (See above)
It may sound silly, but it helps –it puts him and who he is right back in focus.
After the holidays I am thinking about reentering the dating world.
I finally am beginning to think I am ready
ChiTownKitty
Jane
on 12/12/2011 at 10:47 pm
I am so scared. Been no contact for the past 6 months but now its a close friend of mine’s wedding and I know the AC will be there.
I don’t want the awkwardness and I don’t want him to think we are friends, but I cant not go. I could avoid him for most of the wedding but the guest list is not big enough to avoid him completely.
at most I will have to engage in a group convo. No one on one conversations if I can help it.
help!
Natasha
on 12/12/2011 at 11:03 pm
Jane, don’t be scared! Keep in mind that he’s nothing special…just a regular old dime-a-dozen assclown. I know the run-up to the run-in is nerve-wracking, but try to focus on the fact that it’s a wedding and it could be a great time! What’s the worst that could happen? You have to say hello to him and then you excuse yourself and join another conversation. Not so bad, right? I think if you tell yourself you’re going to have a great time, you’ll be much more apt to 🙂 Enjoy the cake!
yoghurt
on 13/12/2011 at 12:59 am
I FINALLY got this today! I FINALLY got it! Woohoo!
I was talking to my counsellor (now that I’ve got off my arse and started trying to sort it out instead of just being miserable over it all the time) and she said something like “You need to set boundaries so that he can’t just dib in and out of your life emotionally when he feels like it”. And I went “Duh! I know!” and then thought “but hang on… if I know this then WHY do I let him do it?”
The thing is that even though he now has a girlfriend and doesn’t tap me up for sex or ego-strokes in the way that he used to, he still periodically unloads his worries about parenthood/our son/his guilt over treating me badly when I was pregnant. I fall over myself to reassure/advise/soothe him and then, once he feels okay, I get dropped back on my arse.
I’ve been feeling for a long time as though I have some sort of responsibility to do this for our son’s sake – even though it makes me feel like a) a muggins and b) chopped liver. But now I realise… why? Although ideally it’d be lovely for our son to have parents who have a MUTUALLY supportive relationship, it’s really better for him to have a mother who isn’t stuck in some sort of internal groundhog day and is actually moving on with her life.
Besides which, he has plenty of support – far more than me – and he’s an adult. And he SHOULD feel bad about the way that he treated me, it was horrid. I’ve no need or desire to be babying him through the situation. End of. And the best thing is that I don’t need to do anything! I just have to be disinterested! Which I already am!
Hurrayhurrayhurray. I’m sure that this high will be short-lived but I think that I’ve finally twigged on and put a padlock on the cat-flap.
Izzybell
on 14/12/2011 at 2:03 am
Congratulations, Yoghurt! So glad to see you thinking/talking about it this way! I recommend printing out what you wrote and hanging it somewhere where you will read it regularly so that you will remember this realization and enjoy the feeling of not being hooked in anymore!
Estelle T
on 13/12/2011 at 10:51 am
I have come to realise recently that if someone genuinely cared for you if you asked them to leave you alone they might be upset – but they would respect your wishes. Any other behaviour is simply self centred and based on, as the blog suggests, control or sometimes self esteem – believing that they are entitled to your flattering attention. Caring means listening and trying to understand and respectfully sharing your own opinion – not trying to convince or cajol or manipulate…
Bri
on 13/12/2011 at 5:25 pm
It’s been 6 days NC with the MM since we’re on a “break.” I don’t know how much longer I can keep it up; I’m crying every day, I can’t eat and I get nothing done at work (we’re coworkers).
When does it get easier? When does this empty feeling finally start to fade? I don’t know how much more of these feelings I can stand but I’m not in a place to reject him if he comes back.
grace
on 13/12/2011 at 9:15 pm
Bri
Get a new job, seriously.
MaryC
on 13/12/2011 at 9:55 pm
Bri, take a deep breath and remember you deserve so much better than this. NC is hard its damn hard but sooo worth the effort. Just take it one day at a time. There were days when for me it was hour by hour. Don’t look at it as a punishment, its a gift you give yourself. You won’t be ready for a good relationship if you’re still hanging on to a bad one. Big ((HUG)) to you.
runnergirl
on 13/12/2011 at 11:50 pm
Hi Bri,
I’m so sorry you are still in that miserable, painful place. I re-read Nat’s post several times to find just the right words but then I realized you probably read it too. So, I’ll just say that I remember being in that miserable, painful place until I couldn’t stand it anymore and had to do something other than cry. At some point, I had to choose me before I knew what that meant. I hope you get to the point soon where you recognize that it’s up to you what happens to you.
Your boomerang situation reminds me so much of my former flipp-flapping situation with the exMM and made me realize more deeply how intensely selfish, cowardly, and cruel this type of man is.
I think I just now realized that he couldn’t love me and treat me like he did. Wishing you the strength to stay NC and the ability to choose you. He hasn’t.
Fearless
on 13/12/2011 at 11:37 pm
Bri
I get that this is painful for you but you’re going from:”It’s been 6 days NC with the MM since we’re on a “break” to “When does this empty feeling finally start to fade?”
Seriously, it’s been *six* days! I hate to break it to you but it’s not going to “finally” fade after six days; it’ll take longer than that, and longer if you work together and it’s not going to fade until you get serious about your predicament and get serious about getting out of it. Grace is not being flippant when she says get a new job! This is not a game, it’s your life, and you only get the one shot at it.
You need to undertsand that NC is for you to focus on *you* (you sense of self worth, your health and wellbeing, both emotionally and physically) not on him, but you are not on NC as far as I can tell – what has happened is that he has told you he is taking a break from the affair (over Christmas hols, as has been said). All that is certain is that he’ll be back when he feels like it, so if you are so desperate for his crumbs and to continue being his bit on the side then you can always just sit back, put your feet up and relax – in the full knowledge that he’ll show up with more of the same for you eventually – sometime in January when the hols are over.
grace
on 14/12/2011 at 10:24 am
fearless
Yep, the last time I witnessed an affair in the office, the girl got fired. Of course. It’s never the bloke!
And, yes, it’s true that for as long as you’re willing they will always be back.
So Bri, turn down the drama meter, he’s not gone yet (though it would be better if he DID go!)
Natasha
on 15/12/2011 at 2:20 am
Grace, I saw that happen at my old job!
Bri, I agree and think you should get a new job. If you’re going to get over this guy, it’s going to be much easier to do without him staring you in the face all day. I once dated a cowoker (unmarried, but still an asshole) that was a real jerk to me and I decided the best thing for me was to start over elsewhere. It makes me sad that you’re making yourself sick over this guy – I can guarantee you he’s not worth it! Hope you are feeling better soon.
Groundhog Day
on 14/12/2011 at 12:46 pm
This saddens me as it reminds me of… me!
It does eventually get better – theres nothing more i can say than what everyone else has said, just thought id send you a *big hug*
x
plumies
on 14/12/2011 at 4:14 pm
Groundhogday ,
i feel the same there is nothing i can said but learn from this site to do better and become better. to me he don;t love me he just want to have control of me Evil , evil.
Allison
on 14/12/2011 at 5:07 pm
Bri,
The feelings start to fade the longer you keep NC. If you continue to go back, you will never find happiness and self-esteem.
Your choice
Leisha
on 14/12/2011 at 7:43 pm
Bri, What happens when you lose your job b/c you can’t focus due to this relationship? Truly…what is it worth to you? How far do you have to go down before you start taking care of yourself? Grace is right: get a new job and start fresh somewhere else. You are unable to think clearly at this juncture and this place of employment and, as Nat has said to others: you are in danger. Read Complicated and Lavendar and other femme’s comments about their grief with MM’s. It is a no win situation and even if you eventually had him as your own in a marriage of your own how could you trust him? Would you track him with gps, put a private detective on him? Install cameras in your residence and other places? Truly…what are you doing all of this for? He’s untrustworthy and not worth the risk and pain… and he’s a sh$t to his wife…do you really want to be in her shoes? You are not in NC. You are in denial.
Bri
on 14/12/2011 at 11:50 pm
It’s like I agree with what everyone is saying and I’d say it to my own friend if she were in my shoes, but there’s still something pulling me to him. My therapist says it’s just playing out old childhood rejections and that I’m not in love with him, I’m co-dependent on him. It isn’t like I haven’t been through this before – we’ve broken up twice aside from this current “temporary break” and I felt just as miserable those times.
You’re right – I’m not doing NC for me, I’m doing it because he told me that if we do, it’ll help him “bounce back” from the mood he’s been in lately and “get us back to a good place.” I’m just so desperate – not eating, not sleeping, constantly crying, making myself sick. I know so many of you have been here before and I’ve yet to read one success story (success meaning he left and you lived happily ever after); the only success I see is women who have moved on from these relationships and become enlightened because of it. I just can’t seem to let go of the hope and the fantasy, even after two years.
AdriennebytheSea
on 15/12/2011 at 2:03 am
Bri, co-dependence is an addiction to unhealthy relationships wherein the Other is seen as more valuable than ourselves. We only exist in relationship to this other person, who we try to win over, control, and use to validate ourselves, to take us out of our own feelings of low self worth. Read everything you can about co-dependency; I have, as the feelings you recount are ones I can absolutely relate to. I have backslided on my own progress; self-sabotage is one aspect of co-dependency. Recovery is a process and sometimes it is so painful to unearth these patterns and hurts from the past that we revert to the pattern, to the pain we at least *know.* NC can work, absolutely, as we have heard from many people on this blog. Not as an excuse, but NC is challenging for the co-dependent, as it can bring up deep-rooted abandonment issues from childhood. The resulting panic we feel in finally ending such a relationship can send us back to the source of pain because we feel so out of control. We feel so miserable partly because we are so detached from our own lives; we are not invested enough in us, always looking to the other for our sense of self. I wish you all the best, Bri. I know this is not easy and the holidays make it worse. Still, take some steps to do stuff for you, be good to you, put the focus on you, be with you, make some plans for your life in 2012. I found this link the other day; it might be helpful as it also touches on some things Natalie has written here about our own EU issues:
runnergirl
on 15/12/2011 at 3:36 am
Hey Bri,
It seems like you have moments of clarity when he has dumped you to play the role of family man. Looks like you are dumped again. So sorry. I remember being dumped around this time too. It’s just so very sad to know that you’ll go on ice while he celebrates the holidays with his wife and family, again. I did it too for two years. Being on ice was very cold and lonely for me. He’ll bounce back and get back to his good place once the holidays are over. So as all you have to do is cry for the next 2-3 weeks and once he is done doing the hubby thing, you’ll be back on. I so lived this bleak, sad, sorry senario. I’m sorry you are still stuck. Last December and over the past year, I cried a river of tears as I let go of the fantasy. I’m wishing you the best. It truly sucks, I know. Grief sucks. Don’t fight it. Grieve the loss of the fantasy. I had to do it and the world hasn’t ended, although I was certain it would.
And Leisha’s comments about trust are spot on. We would like to think the wife isn’t meeting his needs but that isn’t always the case. What if you were the wife and he cheated on you, even though you did everything to meet his needs? I would need a GPS tracking device, a tail, and constant access to his cell/email=NO TRUST. No go.
Your situation makes me remember all the pain. I miss the guy I imagined too. He was never there. Shoot. Don’t wait. You can turn it around if you commit to NC for you. It’ll take way more than 5 or 6 days, more like 5 or 6 months. And every time you engage, it starts all over again.
grace
on 15/12/2011 at 2:21 pm
runnergirl
Yep, I think it’s total BS we tell ourselves that the wife isn’t meeting his needs, to justify our behaviour.It’s also projection – because WE wouldn’t cheat unless we were being msitreated or unhappy, we think he wouldn’t either.
I read an article written by an EUM (though he didn’t see himself that way) who had two girlfriends. At least in this instance the women knew about the existence of the other. He was happy enough with both of them. When he was woman A he didn’t think about woman B. When he was with woman B he didn’t think about Woman A. In his mind, he was being fair to both of them since he treated them both well. Neither of them made him unhappy. Both of them were meeting his needs. He just didn’t want to be monogamous! In the end, he did pick one of them after some years. Don’t know how that turned out. it’s degrading and humiliating to compete with another woman for a man. I wouldn’t be able to forgive myself for having so little self-respect. And it’s not much of a story for the grandkids.
And if she’s NOT meeting his needs, why not say something, or get divorced? What about HER need to know that her husband is screwing another person and lying to her, spending their joint income, taking time away from the family? And what if his “need” is to have two women on the go? One for home and one for fun? What does the wife do then?
Karma is a bitch. When I was with the playa, believe me, his needs were well and truly met. His friends thought he had hit the jackpot. Was he still interested in other women? You bet. I found out for myself what it’s like to be with someone who is disloyal and it’s not nice. It’s worse than being the OW (which I have been before). Never again am I knowingly getting involved in that hot mess again. And if I do unwittingly find myself in it, I’m walking away. I know I can do it because I did it before.
Fearless
on 16/12/2011 at 10:53 am
Grace:
“When I was with the playa, believe me, his needs were well and truly met. His friends thought he had hit the jackpot.”
This is one of the things I find most disturbing about men (at risk of making sweeping statements!) – that they think other men like the playa have “hit the jackpot”. Are these cheating MMs and playas and commitment free EUMS only doing what other men wish they had the nerve to be doing or wish they too could get away with? it would seem so by the many oft used phrases like “hit the jackpot” that are applied to these men (‘all his birthdays have come at once’ and ‘having his cake and eating it’). When I hear other men “clapping” the MM/EUM/playa on the back, I can’t help but wonder, ‘what is the point in forcing men into monogamy when it’s plainly not their first choice or not something they find desirable. Maybe it’s something they are prepared to co-operate with IF they know the woman they are with (and want to stay with) would not tolerate anything less.
I was watching a crime-watch programme last night. A young girl (in the city nearest to where I live) comes out of a nightclub alone (having lost contact with her friends) a man grabs her off the main thoroughfare, pulls her forcibly into an alleyway them into a doorway here he brutally rapes her (this is partially caught on cctv). After the attack as she is trying to get up from the ground, another man walking down the alleyway stops as if to help her but he then pulls her back into the doorway and rapes her all over again (there is some suspicion however that two attackers may be known to each other – but they may not be).
Maybe it’s the way I’m feeling about men generally right now – post EUM , but this horrid tale of this poor girl’s ordeal happening virtually on my doorstep made me feel a total loss of faith in all male humanity ) that girl could have been my precious daughter – except that I make her and her friends promise to leave home together and come home *together* and never to part ways !). These two men will be going about their lives at home and at work with their families/wives/girlfriends etc. for all the world like “normal people” and that’s what bothers me – how (ostensibly) normal these men are (and look).
Sorry – but I am in a bad place with “men” today. And am probably now way off topic.
grace
on 16/12/2011 at 12:31 pm
fearless
no, they thought he had hit the jackpot with ME. These were good guys. they figured the playa would settle down with me. They would introduce me as the girlfriend. Ah, little did they know.
On the other hand, you’re right, other guys DID admire his philandering ways. They were EU hot messes.
There are good men out there, lots of them. But for sure the bad ones really can wreak havoc. Sometimes because they are stronger than us, sadly.
Fearless
on 17/12/2011 at 1:54 am
Hear you Grace. Yes they do wreak havoc. They destroy people.
Allison
on 15/12/2011 at 5:39 am
You don’t want to let go!!!
What do your friends and family think of this?
I’m also curious as to what you get out of this? I hope there aren’t kids involved?
runnergirl
on 16/12/2011 at 3:37 am
Hi Grace,
This thread is truly heart-stopping. I had myself firmly convinced that his wife of 27 years wasn’t meeting his needs. I now cannot for the life of me fathom how I bought it. 27 years, really? Worse, it was NONE OF MY BUSINESS whether his needs were being met or whether her needs were being met. They are married. Their respective needs had nothing to do with me, although I thought so at the time, key in Florence? I’ve never identified with the Florence boxes until now. Runner to the rescue? This is all a tough lesson at 52.
I am sorry you were betrayed. It has to be worse than being the OW because the betrayed partner doesn’t know. It is not fair that a MM spends time away from their spouse/family and spends their money on OW. I can see it from both sides now. I am so very sorry I betrayed his wife, children, my daughter, and myself. All of my doors, the chimney, the windows, my stucco, and my tile grout is firmly bolted and sealed shut. Wonder why I spent the last few months sealing my tile grout. I’ve been subconsciously sealing every single crack in my physical house in hopes of mending the cracks in my emotional house. You asked: “And what if his “need” is to have two women on the go? One for home and one for fun? What does the wife do then?” Answer: Walk?
Fearless
on 16/12/2011 at 11:20 am
Hey runner,
it’s only once you are out of these situations that you really see what you have been involved in – a whole of cheating, a whole lot of lying and a whole lot of hurt – and it can have a severely detrimental effect on the children (if there are any) for the rest of their lives, which is why MMs banging on about how they only stay with the wife for the sake of their children (while continuing the affair) are talking a lot of shite. I have said this before long ago and will repeat now: I heard a church minister once on the radio during a talk about families and the role of the father – he said, very wisely I thought, that the most important thing a man can do for his child is to love its mother. And I thought how true that was on many levels. Having an affair – cheating and lying and betrayal – is detrimental to the mother therefore detrimental to the children.
Magnolia
on 15/12/2011 at 9:29 am
Hi Bri,
There is a classic story by Ernest Hemingway, Hills Like White Elephants. Have you read it? Your story reminds me of Hemingway’s. Why?
Because of the way Hemingway writes how a man like him sees the relationship: he calls the man “the man” and the woman “the girl”. You’ll notice in his story how they ‘fight’ over her getting an abortion – he’s trying to pressure her while saying he cares – she is so concerned with him continuing to like her and trying to get him to care for her that she tries to bargain by getting him to promise to like her if she goes through with it for him.
It’s impossible to see the woman as a woman, as an equal, when she is always, in his mind, ‘the girl.’ And she probably is younger, and he buys her stuff, so there’s that dynamic.
In your story, even the way you tell it, he’s the Man and you’re the Girl.
When I read about this douche telling you, perhaps in lovey tones, but basically to “sit”, like his precious puppy, on a leash and wait til daddy comes back to pet you again and take you out, I am reminded of this fictional douche saying, in the same breath: “I care for you … and ‘it’s perfectly simple,'” ie. I love you sweetie now get the fecking abortion already so we can be done with it.
Your MM is saying, oh good Bri, pretty Bri, now sit and wait for Daddy to be done playing Family Man. I said I’m busy, Bri, now sit. Sit. Good girl!
All the lovey dovey stuff, the I’m sorting myself stuff, is just to try and keep you mollified and available for sex when he decides he wants it again. “I love you sweetie now just stay the fuck off my case until I tell you I’m ready for more.” The fact that he treats you this way means he has no respect or interest in your thoughts.
At the end of the day guys like this just want you to be smiling pretty for them no matter what it costs you.
Anyway, I rant. Maybe trying to show you how you’re being exploited isn’t the way to help.
runnergirl
on 16/12/2011 at 4:21 am
Dear Mag, what a tremendous analogy. I’ve been reading and re-reading the link you provided to Hemingway’s “Hills Like White Elephants” all night. I’ve so been that girl in the bar with the man. I’ve said those exact same words the girl did cos I was the girl. It brought me right back to Feb 2008 in an OC mall and parking lot and so many nights before. I like beer a lot, despite the empty calories. Your insight on how she is the girl and he is the man is, well, genius. I have to admit, however, I haven’t had any formal training in Hemingway. Please tell me the girl was really fine. Otherwise, I’ll stay up all night googling it. Did the girl walk? Too brilliant for words Magnolia. Still trying to get a grip. I feel like when my daughter emails me about a Shakespeare passage or a anthro forefather. I have to go back to the drawing board. The girl was really fine and realized she was a woman and deserved better, right?
runnergirl
on 16/12/2011 at 5:53 am
Still re-reading and thinking. Wow! I think the girl ended up fine and walking. Magnolia, I would like to really encourage you in your academic pursuits. Like Natalie, you are truly gifted. Thank you for sharing your gifts. So, am a right…the girl walked, right?
Magnolia
on 16/12/2011 at 9:57 am
@runner:
You make me laugh with your question – I’m not sure how tongue in cheek it is. But since you ask twice, I’ll tell you how I read it. “The girl” is so passive-aggressive throughout, with the liquorice comment, and the ‘I don’t care about me’; she’s unhappy but will not leave him, so she gets her digs in however she can.
The climax actually comes when for a brief moment, she gets direct with him. The last thing she says to him, before the waitress interrupts them, is basically telling him to shut up or she’ll scream. But he goes and moves the bags, and comes back and pushes the reset button:
‘Do you feel better?’ he asked.
‘I feel fine,’ she said. ‘There’s nothing wrong with me. I feel fine.’
And so she accepts his reset. In the worldview of Hemingway, which wasn’t exactly the most optimistic around relationships or loyalty, especially male/female relationships (read The Sun Also Rises for the portrait of an EUM who pines after an EU woman he can’t have and who taunts him), the couple just carries on. One imagines her ‘going through with it’ and resenting him and making him pay for the rest of their lives together. One imagines him dumping her eventually when she refuses to just “be fine afterwards. Just like we were before.”
I mean, check him out, referring to her pregnancy: ‘That’s the only thing that bothers us. It’s the only thing that’s made us unhappy.’ It? Thing? Ugh.
I don’t think the text suggests the girl is truly fine. Hemingway does a great job of reproducing the classic, halfhearted, exasperated “Honey, is something wrong?” and the martyred, “I’m fine.”
If anything it’s a story illustrating BR wisdom: the fact that they’re even having the conversation means they are so far from the ideal of a supportive man and happy woman looking forward to the birth of their child that the relationship is already dead. She will never get what she wants.
But for you, I will speculate that she goes off with him, cries for a night in the hotel room, finally realizes he is a giant pompous ass, walks without having the abortion, has the child, sues him successfully for child support, goes to night school, reads BR, grows up a lot, and finds herself a few years later loving herself, loving her kid, entertaining interest from far better men, and thanking her lucky stars she didn’t succumb to the Man’s (cough cough) ‘loving’ little solution to their ‘problem.’
Magnolia
on 15/12/2011 at 9:45 am
And, because I’m thinking about this issue for myself right now, I am assuming there are daddy issues behind all this, Bri?
I just went on a date with a very nice man who has three daughters and clearly knows each of them well and is involved with and proud of them. I realized sitting there that there have been all kinds of ways that men have interacted with me as though I were a little girl and I didn’t even know it. I only realized, as I listened to this man talk about his daughters, that what I’ve longed for all my life was exactly the kind of interest he has for his daughters. I’ve wanted someone to think I was that special. So I never rejected it when a man came along and treated me special, like one treats a child who clearly needs to be told she’s special.
But with this guy, I’m suddenly struck with: hold on, his daughters are the sweet, pretty little ones who need to be told they are special. What does a man who already has ‘girls’ in his life want with another little girl (i.e me)? What does such a guy do with a woman? How I would I expect him to relate? What would he expect of me? New questions for me.
Your helplessness now reminds me of my illusions of my own helplessness with exACs. I was a lost little girl looking for love. Unfortunately, the most likely men to sign up for that are the ones who only see “girl” anyway where in fact there is a woman.
But unless we act like women, we get taken about as seriously as the little girls driving our love-seeking behaviour.
You’ve got to start loving yourself, Bri, or else you’re like a shivering homeless girl at the bus stop to whom every smooth talking pimp will offer dinner and a warm bed. Right now you’re feeling back out in the cold, and just longing for the warmth of that bed and the beggar’s meal of his attention.
But you can – and you have to – feed and house yourself, Bri. You’re not a girl anymore, and right now you’re essentially trading sex for something you think you can’t give yourself. But you can.
Thank you Magnolia – this comment is so insightful and *brilliant*.
I had a serious case of Daddy Hunting and did exactly as you described with a string of older boyfriends. Oddly, despite looking to be treated like a girl, I felt patronised and rejected when they didn’t treat me like a woman, even though looking back, I sometimes behaved or related like a girl. “Unfortunately, the most likely men to sign up for that are the ones who only see “girl” anyway where in fact there is a woman.” Bingo
“You’ve got to start loving yourself, Bri, or else you’re like a shivering homeless girl at the bus stop to whom every smooth talking pimp will offer dinner and a warm bed. Right now you’re feeling back out in the cold, and just longing for the warmth of that bed and the beggar’s meal of his attention.” I need to digest both of your comments more – just breathtaking.
Lo J
on 15/12/2011 at 1:05 pm
Awesome. So well said from all you guys!! We have to “Grow ourselves up” and nurture ourselves, giving to us what we didn’t get as children. It is really empowering when we see that we are not at the mercy of others anymore.
Bri, it isn’t just about grieving the loss of this “man” or “relationship”. Put the focus on you. Spend time thinking about WHY this is okay, why it is familiar, why you play this role. I’m sure you have a lot to grieve and you CAN’T do the work if your attention is on this issue. He is like the alcohol for the alcoholic — diverts your attention and focus from you and what is REALLY going on. Stay no contact, for you, and work your ass off.
anoosh
on 15/12/2011 at 5:20 pm
bringing up the issue about dating an EU guy with kids he treats like gold, maybe he even gets the Dad of the Century Award, and then how there is a disconnect in the way they relate to you as a *woman* –it’s something I’ve really been struggling with. nurturing, caring, putting your loved ones first — those are qualities we’re all supposed to be looking for, right? at this point (46), almost all the men who who I will ever date in my life will have children, maybe even grandchildren. I have dated “confirmed bachelors” w/no kids, there’s always something off there, like they’ve never grown out of adolescent selfishness (I don’t see the same as being true for bachelorettes, btw). I think many dads do become comfortable w/a giving style that evolves from their parenting, and when the kids are young, they get that unconditional love too. so then they find themselves single again (or NOT), and they want an *adult* relationship with a woman — or do they? can they really be 100% emotionally available to take the risk of opening up their lives, souls, hearts to another? I guess that’s the big question with any potential partner. I don’t know where I’m going with this, but I’ve spent a lot of time the last 18 months trying to square in my mind how someone can be such an amazing, devoted father, and then turn around and be such a coldhearted bastard to a woman he claims to love. I don’t understand how people can compartmentalize themselves that way. I guess I’m still pretty naive, plus I don’t have kids. and maybe I’m still going by the example I had growing up with my Dad, so I keep expecting that these guys have it together emotionally because they’re “nice”. great — now a whole other thing to have to mull over…
Tulipa
on 15/12/2011 at 8:45 pm
Magnolia,
Wow and thank you so much more food for thought to apply to my own situation.
Magnolia
on 15/12/2011 at 10:07 pm
@ anoosh: I agree that just b/c someone is a great dad doesn’t automatically make them a good partner. This person last night, for example, said more than once that hanging out with his kids is like hanging out with friends. Now, his kids are 7, 10 and 13 so that was a tiny amber flag for me – I think at that age kids still very much need a Dad, who can love AND set boundaries, not just a buddy who plays catch with them and also sniggers with them when Mom tries to lay down the law.
In any case, because he was both clearly engaged in his daughters’ lives AND just a guy who is about my age with no special powers, our conversation got me thinking about how powerful adults are for us as kids, but that these men who were, or should have been, these amazing father figures are in fact just guys (the sun doesn’t shine out of their bums, as Nat would say).
In my case if I had had a more emotionally mature Dad, I might have been older before I had to start dealing with the facts of his human fallibility; I might have been older and the process might have been much more gradual as I matured, took on more responsibility, and he fell from Fatherly God to fellow adult and flawed human.
For lots of us, Dad was unreliable from the time we were so little that his unreliability and his God-like status are all mixed up, and our own sense of self-sufficiency and little girlness are still all mixed up. Don’t know if I’m expressing this clearly…
I’m sure this guy loves his daughters and they love him. I always knew my rescuer ex from way back would have been all about his kids (he actually has them now and is all about his kids). At the time I was so Daddy Hunting that I also knew I’d be jealous of my own kids if I had them with him! But I also knew he’d never be able to say no to them, just like he could never say no to me, and eventually they’d walk all over him, just like I did.
Izzybell
on 16/12/2011 at 5:20 am
This is a truly powerful comment- thanks, Magnolia! I don’t think I’ll ever think about relationships (and my relationships, specifically) quite the same way after reading it.
Anoosh– I’m a bit skeptical about the Best Dad in the World thing. I think a lot of men who are divorced/separated etc. have a lot of guilt about messing up their families and their kids and they go into overdrive as single dads, perhaps because they weren’t truly available and present to their kids in the past. It is all fine and well for them to mend their relationships with their kids and put them first but this doesn’t necessarily make for a great partner. For one thing, they may be too busy proving themselves to their kids/showing their ex she was wrong/righting the wrongs of the past to truly prioritize a a new person. Not that they shouldn’t be striving to be the best possible parent to their children, but we have to make sure they have the capacity to do this AND be available for a mutual, caring, committed relationship with us.
grace
on 16/12/2011 at 10:55 am
anoosh
I’ll get Bitch of the Year Award for this but – all’s fine while the kids are little. These EUMs CANNOT cope when the children are older and need firm boundaries and moral guidance. The kids no longer worship dad. They think dad’s an embarrassment. They have different interests and loyalties. I’ve seen it go pear-shaped a number of times with Dads of the Year when the children grow up.
Even if I’m exaggerating, don’t believe everything he says. The best fathers I know, don’t brag about what good dads they are. If anything. they worry whether they are doing a good enough job.
d.
on 13/12/2011 at 6:52 pm
I guess the FOOL is back from his escapade with one of his many women because today I got the “hello” text. UGH! I was taken aback because I didn’t expect him to contact me and I specifically told him that once he left for his vacation that I would never speak to him again. I’m holding strong to NC. I’m in such a better place since he left. I can think clearly. I’m not having panic attacks wondering who is the new addition to the “harem.” I’m making productive plans for my new year. And, most importantly, I’m actually very excited to be single. I’m FREE! I’m FREE to do ME all the time. And, for the first time in my “dating” life – I’m ok with it.
I learned so much about myself through my non relationship with him. I have learned to stop selling myself short and settling on bits and pieces of a man, when one day, when I’m emotionally available, I will attract a whole man or, at this point…PERSON (hey, who knows 😉 ) But, seriously, NC has given me a great deal of objectivity and I’m going to put him far, far on the back burner because I’m no longer even attracted to him. He repulses me. He is a coward and weak and he’s a mindfuck…and I no longer have the time to spare.
Thank you Natalie, and posters for giving me strength!
H
on 13/12/2011 at 10:47 pm
I am so thankful for this site and for reading all the helpful comments. I too had a manipulative lying non-relatinship with an AC who used to periodically drop in and out and contact me for an ego stroke/validation etc until I finally called him out on his behaviour. I think his jaw must have dropped when I said that I’m no longer an “option” and that I do not wish to be part of his ‘harem’. He then proceeded to tell me he’s seeing a nurse who works at the same hospital as me who he ‘respects’ and ‘wants to settle down with’. Hmmmm my ass! He then blocked me on facebook, damn what a shame! I really am finally just so glad not to have that rubbish in my life! When you look at it this way, how pathetic is it to be 30 years of age and still needing ‘ego’ strokes from multiple people when you have a ‘partner’. Attractive behaviour? I think not. Ladies rejoice that you are no longer in this circus, and are free to love and live life the way YOU want to xx
Natasha
on 14/12/2011 at 10:46 pm
Hell YES d! I too thought I’d never hear from my ex again and got the dreaded text today haha! Except it wasn’t a hello – years ago I told him he looked like a famous athlete and so today I received a text that said, “Hi Natasha. Someone just told me I look like “fill in name of famous athlete” and I thought of you haha.” I mean…seriously?! Girl, like you, I just burst out laughing and thought, “FOOL.” Here’s to a happy and assclown-free 2012 🙂
runnergirl
on 15/12/2011 at 4:56 am
NO WAY! You’ve got to be making this up, right? It couldn’t fall more perfectly in the “Hey Natasha, look at me” zone. Totally amazing how they turn up and do their amazing circus tricks. Good for you for not responding and telling him what a jackass he is. It’s really wonderful to see how predictable these fools are. I guess I better bone up for his amazing circus tricks as it’s assclown season. I’m no longer hoping for a Miracle on Assclown Street…still laughing and slapping my thigh over that one and I can’t get the “Here’s Johnny” pic out of my mind. Thank you Natalie and all BR posters. It is amazing where I was last year and where I am now, thanks to you all. I’m no longer staring at the decision!
Natasha
on 15/12/2011 at 4:11 pm
Runner, you have me cracking up!! Circus tricks is right – it’s amazing how it never occurs to them how dumb they look. My mother was like, “It’s highly possible that no one even said that to him. He’s that much of an ass.” You are very right that every time they act in their attention seeking, loser-ish manner…it just reinforces the decision haha!
Liza
on 16/12/2011 at 10:43 pm
Liza
I am grateful to find this website. I have been reading the posts and need some advice. I am married and work for a good company, enjoy my job and am not going to leave the company for another 5 years. The situation is this, a co-worker, male who is also married befriended me for a period of time. Then his friendship changed into “I want you”. I have made it perfectly clear that I am not a friend who gives out benefits and I am married – period! This has not stopped this person from what I call stalking. He shows up everywhere I am, watches me on security cameras, is very sly and sneaky. Will come into my office whenever he chooses (nothing happens) to show me he has the upper hand or wants to make sure that I am thinking about him, etc. and will not let me purge him from my mind, etc. He filters in and out and causes an upheavel in my day. I cannot report him because he is part of the management that plays and gets away with it. I am a very strong person who can ignore someone as if they weren’t there as in the NC rule. Because it is a work environment I cannot make myself invisible to them, only pretend to be. I truely believe this person is a Narricist and thrives on attention and will stop at nothing to get it. I am careful because some people are unpredictable in behavior and I don’t want to be caught off guard. It drives me crazy with their behavior coming and going and I can’t stop them. I have literally been cold and walked in opposite directions if I see them and they get upset about it and are relentless at making contact. What am I doing wrong? Is there a better way to handle this at work?
Magnolia
on 18/12/2011 at 5:52 am
Liza, that is a tough situation. It is your workplace and you should not be subject to this; but since guys like the ones you describe get their thrills from being the bad boy who breaks the rules, the ‘shoulds’ may not make much difference.
If your company is big enough, you could try to document his harassment and when you have enough evidence, go to HR. Could you be moved to another dept where he wouldn’t have access to you? From watching my exAC react to complaints against him that went through HR, I do get the sense that if a narc feels other people see that he’s harassing a woman, he’ll do what’s necessary to fix the damage to his image. It’s all about image to them. So if you can go through official channels to let it be known he’s bothering you, he may leave you alone.
Lo J
on 13/12/2011 at 11:35 pm
Reading Lynda’s and agirliknow’s posts have got me to thinking … we listen to these guys tell their side of the story. Their stories about the relationships they had with their exes, their childhoods, their traumas, and we get their perceptions and begin to empathize with them, so we have a distorted view as to what is really going on … we’re not getting the big picture, because though these things may be somewhat true and very tragic for them, WE are the ones who are paying the price. Its hard to think of them in terms of being “bad guys” or judging them as Natalie has said in previous posts. That’s the beauty of NC because with time away, we get this clarity and the ability to see it for what it really is. (Like stepping out of and being a “third party” so to speak.) And we can see just how inappropriate and UNDESERVING we are of their actions, despite what their past may be. It helps to think in terms too of ‘would this be acceptable behavior if this were happening to my best friend or my sister or my daughter??’ Puts things into perspective for us. Though their past may be tragic (I myself have sat and cried while hearing about the abuses an ex endured as a child) it is not our responsibility as GF/wives/lovers to pay the restitution for their injustices. They are responsible for their actions and behaviors just as we are.
NoMoreFear
on 14/12/2011 at 12:37 am
I’m finally committing to NC with an ex. I tried before but he always found the right “key” to get me open the door, even if it was to scream, “you have some nerve!” at him. This has been going on for six years. We began as friends and grew very close. He had a girlfriend at the time and I made sure any other feelings I was developing were kept at bay. He broke up with her and told me he had fallen in love with me less than two months later. I felt he needed more time to recover but he kept on me until I caved. He was still living with his ex. He started to get annoyed whenever I expressed that I couldn’t feel secure in the relationship as long as he was still living with his ex. Eventually he broke up with me (I had tried to break up with him several times), saying, “I’m sorry, I just wasn’t ready, I thought I was” two months after his ex moved out a year and a half after we started dating.
I had initiated NC then and after a bumpy start, I was able to start to get on with my life. But we have similar interests in music and share many of the same friends so I knew it was inevitable that I would run into him again. And I did and nothing happened at first but we started being friendly again after awhile and then starting to hang out together again for a couple of years and it was okay, but I knew I still had feelings left and I suspected he did too. And last year, we slept together admitting there was more going on all along. So we “casually” dated, because he still wasn’t ready for a relationship and I didn’t think I was either and we both agreed we should both see other people. I, of course, did not because I’m not comfortable with dating a lot of people at once. And he didn’t either for most of the time we were casually dating. Until last September. He went on one date and told me because he felt badly about it because of his feelings for me but still wasn’t ready for a relationship with me and said we would figure something out and work through it together. I believed him.
Then he went on another date three days later after saying he would take some time to think about it… three days later. Two more weeks after that date he decides this new person is someone he wants to be in a relationship with. Knows me six years and isn’t sure. Knows her three weeks total and knows for certain she’s the one he wants to be with. You’d think…
grace
on 14/12/2011 at 1:22 pm
NoMore
Yeah that’s how it goes.
I don’t think anyone ever gets an upgrade from fallback girl to proper girlfriend.
Although I “achieved” an upgrade to wife (don’t ask me how, I ain’t sharing and I ain’t recommending), I filed for divorce within a year. I also “won” a MM. That ended with him dumping me and then being the most EU “friend” for 15 years before I finally cut him off in exasperation. I’ve also “achieved” an upgrade to live-in girlfriend. That ended with me being punched and pushed around. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work and continuing to pursue it WILL backfire on you. I am seriously telling you, you don’t want this guy.
Used
on 14/12/2011 at 5:59 pm
Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.
And don’t take it personally AT ALL if things work out with this girl.
You can’t control how they see you, or the timing of when you meet. You could be the Virgin Mary, extremely likeable, gorgeous, with 2 grad school diplomas, the reputation, voice, and body of an angel, and a terrific and rich family to boot–if they are not over an ex or not ready (and stupidly think they could “do better” ONLY BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT READY FOR MARRIAGE YET AND NO OTHER REASON), then you are toast!
plumies
on 14/12/2011 at 4:02 pm
i had the on contact but some how gave in . i feel like a fool he told me he have a friend but it nothing serious and that he can let go of that like nothing i felt like piece of shit when he told me that my face felt to the floor the reason is if you have a someone why you still after me. i am so tired of this situation in my life i don;t know what to do. i put the no contact rule again and hope that i will look the other way for ever i been almost a year in this situation.
Magnolia
on 14/12/2011 at 8:49 pm
hi plumies –
glad you have gone nc again. the nerve of that guy telling you he has someone and it’s nothing serious – does he say that to all the women he wants to have on a string? every one of them nothing serious? but him always chasing down a new piece?
you only need to feel a fool as long as you let this man yank you around. you say you want to ‘look the other way’ for ever … can you get him out of your line of sight completely? easier not to have to see him at all than to have to keep turning your face away to avoid the AC glare.
anyway keep coming back here and you’ll get stronger every day
NS
on 14/12/2011 at 6:32 pm
I’ve been no contact for almost 4 months now and my ex just called AGAIN yesterday. I hadn’t noticed, because unlike when we were together, I don’t sit around waiting for him or anyone else to call. Plus, I was working. Since I told him to kick rocks and started NC, I get random calls and texts from all kinds of phone numbers. It’s either him or some family member of his (that I’ve never heard of) leaving voicemail or sending texts telling me he’s sick/in the hospital/not doing well/asking have I spoken to him. It’s really annoying and pisses me off. I blocked him on fb, his calls, and texts. It’s getting to the point where I’m thinking about changing my number, but I’m tired of all these random numbers popping up on my phone.
Anne S.
on 14/12/2011 at 6:41 pm
Another well written post Natalie! I’ve been on NC for almost 2 months, and each day, slowly, I try to reward myself for making it through another day!I dated this AC for awhole 2 years: it amounted to alot of future faking+ lying+denial+rationalising. I finally got tired of making excuses for his shitty behavior and cut contact.
When I did NC I was sure I wasn’t going to hear from him ever again. And then, the first msg came (btw I saved his name under “MR. UNAVAILABLE/ASSCLOWN”) The 1st msg, he told me that he understood that I want to be left alone and didn’t ‘want to intrude’ but that his life has been ‘horrible lately’ etc etc’. I did not respond. Then a few days ago, I got another sorry-ass msg! It began with “It feels like we haven’t spoken for ages….” I didn’t read the whole msg and immediately pressed delete! Ugh! It just gave me such an uneasy feeling.
I am still surprised that he would KEEP at it! I agree that it is nowhere near flattering that he would try to contact me:P And these 2 msgs were longer than any other msg’s he’d ever written me while we were dating! I am more angry than anything + disgusted even. You are absolutely right that these AC’s dont even give a shit about busting boundaries, it is ALL ABOUT THEM! He probably just wants to be in control again + reel me back into another cycle of craziness!no thankyou!
Right now, I’m driven to not turn back. I’m definitely not gonna allow this AC to try jimmy or bash down my door! It is NOT worth the pain at all. Thanks for this!:)
NCC
on 14/12/2011 at 6:46 pm
Today is rough. Yesterday was rough. I’m trying not to think ahead past today, because I know that will only bring me down further if I try to imagine how I’m going to get through any more days. The problem with that is that I’m imagining every day in the future as me feeling how I feel today. It’s terrible, suffocating feeling, but in know I will get better, feel better, I have to know that, or I won’t make it. I’m trying so hard to put the REALITY of him in the forefront of my thoughts, NOT the fantasy. He is, no joke, an assclown who made every assclown maneuver there is. Everything from Nat’s list about how to recognize an assclown, that list IS who he is. But damn that fantasy just doesn’t seem to want to go away. I can’t seem to take him off this pedestal I put him on, one that he should not be on. Why do I have to talk myself into the fact that he lost out on ME? Anyway, NC feels empowering at some moments, and lonely the next. Just needed to vent today, I’m trying to keep in mind that the humiliation I’ve been through when he contacted me for an ego stroke, and I fell for it, is not worth the momentary high, and the lasting hangover of sadness. I’m trying to remember that his lack of contact is GOOD, because it spares me the temptation to answer, but I must remember that MY lack of contact speaks volumes as well, I hope it’s telling him I know I’m worth more than he was giving (basically nothing), and I won’t continue to be used, lied to, cheated on, etc. I was once the live in girlfriend and not the one he deleted texts from and ignored their calls, now I feel like he’s made me the other woman.Yuck. I’m just hurting so much, but trying to feel the pain and not totally try to supress it, but i admit i do need some sort of distraction and outlet, or the pain eats me alive. Seeing a counselor now, feel like I should be in therapy 24/7.
Fearless
on 14/12/2011 at 11:20 pm
NCC
“Why do I have to talk myself into the fact that he lost out on ME?”
You don’t. (I get what you’re saying as I went through all of that niggling myself about what he thinks/what he wins/what he loses/what he thinks of me blah blah). Here’s the thing: he doesn’t matter anymore! You do. Just you. What he’s lost or thinks he’s lost or doesn’t think/could think/might think/might want/ doesn’t want… it doesn’t matter! He is not going to be any part of your future – your future is about you. Here’s the other thing: if you don’t stay away from him and focus now only on yourself as the important person here then the person who’s going to lose out on you is *you*. The longer you make it about him the longer you have lost out on you. Who cares what he’s lost or hasn’t lost. He’s history! You are not.
Mui
on 14/12/2011 at 8:39 pm
Thanks LyndaL! it just makes me feel a little frightened how the switches are, as in, he was sending a present and now its back to full blown threats again after not having had the reaction he wanted. its just sooooooo crazy i just cant get round his way of thinking. I think he knows that i just wanna move on after over 3 month and he is trying honestly everything to get back in. I wouldnt be surprised by him lurking behind every tree 😉 but with this feeling how can i relax? ? ?
oldenoughtoknowbetter
on 14/12/2011 at 9:09 pm
Hello everyone, just checking in with BR, don’t come here too much anymore because I am FINALLY OVER HIM!! Ahh, what a beautiful thing to know and feel and believe in my heart. For those of you who followed the pain of my “returning college lover” and 26 years later a full blown 1 plus year affair and he was married, back and forth just like the rest of you, NC then no NC……
What happened? I think it was a mix of reading BR religiously every day, sometimes several times a day to read the bloggers comments (I think Nat should get a sainthood for being there for us over and over and OVER until it starts to sink in), counseling, and it all was just sinking in a little at a time, almost without me knowing it. My self esteem and confidence starting coming back and it just started growing. We had some half hearted texts back in August, he tried to use his usual sex texts…and they just weren’t doing much for me! And one day he sent me a text, I sent him a text, he didn’t respond….and I just didn’t care! Halelujah!!
I had also started dating again and practiced my red flag awareness (and got the hell out of there if I saw one…no more waiting to see what happened…run, Forest, run is right!!), my boundaries, watched my chemistry not getting out of hand, and prayed a lot for deliverance from this pain. With every success, every time I said no to that red or amber flag, my confidence just grew and grew.
Have not heard from him in almost 4 months and I just plain don’t care. Now when I think about him, there is actually some revulsion on my part. Not at him, but at myself and where I allowed myself to go. The whole thing just makes me think “yuck!” now. It is so amazing when you are finally out of it and looking back, seriously, WTF was I thinking?
If/when I hear from him (and because of this blog, I know it is more when than if), I am going to think of that line from that great song by Gotye that someone on here posted “You’re just somebody that I used to know” (thank you to who ever did that, I must have listened to it a hundred times) and I will delete his text without another thought.
All of you who shared your stories and let me know I was not alone in this pain, thank you. Natalie, you are an amazing woman and I wish you huge exposure to help those of us flailing around with broken hearts out here. I give your website to whoever is having relationship problems.
Runnergirl, I think of you often as we had very similar situations and I pray for the same release for you. I know you will find it, I know it is coming soon, I can tell from your blogs. I had not actually seen him since May, but for some reason I kept allowing the occasional texts until they stopped in August. It is a long road to unwind. God speed!!
Happy Holidays everyone and I wish you all the best Christmas present ever – your life and your heart back. If someone has not been where we have, they don’t understand. It feels so good to belong to me again. I have been dating a SINGLE man for several months and I am having a great time. But he does not OWN me like I let the other one, although we have great chemistry it is under my control. Wishing you all a great 2012, and know if I did it, so can you cause I am just like all of you. Sorry to go on so long, but wanted to share with you all a success story. Yay!!
PS – I will still check in from time to time, because Nat’s down to earth advice is not just about relationships with men, but about relationships in life.
Fearless
on 17/12/2011 at 1:49 am
Oldenoughtoknowbetter,
Glad to hear your good news story. Yay! from me too. Well done. Wishing you all the best.
runnergirl
on 18/12/2011 at 1:25 am
Oldenough,
GREAT news. I’m so happy for you. It sounds like you have finally made it out of the quicksand. A big high five. It is wonderful to hear that you are dating a SINGLE guy and trusting yourself to make decisions in your best interest. Change is possible. It’s just amazing what I put myself through when I look back too. This weekend is a year since the big break-up and we’ve been complete NC since July. I’m truly grateful I am not in that dark turmoil this year. There are still down days but I’m really committed to moving on and implementing my new BR life like you have. Natalie and the folks here are truly fabulous. I agree about Natalie being a saint. She must have told me 100 times “Runner you’re in danger girl” before I heard her. I’ll probably always read BR because you are right, it’s a world view, and a wonderful one.
Hope to hear more about your successes. Thank you for the inspiration. Cheers to an AC-Free 2012 and beyond!
oldenoughtoknowbetter
on 19/12/2011 at 5:29 pm
Runnergirl, thanks for responding! Quicksand is the perfect word for it! That is how it felt looking back at it now. Heavy and slogging. But, I am also grateful for the experience, as I am not sure I would have recognized the man I am dating now as he did not fit my “mate” profile. Had my MM not thrown me into such pain, I may have jumped from EU to EU man for who knows how long! But the pain drove me to BR, to counseling, and to questioning my belief system with relationships. And yes, it mostly stemed back to dear old narcisstic dad. But recognizing it means I can finally change the dynamic…first you have to see it and own it.
Last year at this time I was contemplating my holidays without my “love” (gag) as he spent it with his family. On NY day I got pictures from his facebook showing the happy family man on Xmas eve. Only I knew that the day after Xmas he was in my bed, telling me he loved me. When I saw the pictures I almost threw up, literally. It was the pain I needed to drive me out, and I found BR that same week.
This year, just got off the phone with my single bf of 4 months. We are planning him and his son spending Xmas Eve with me and my boys, and discussing where we want to have a quick get away for a few nights the following week. Helloooo….that would be called a normal, loving, respectful relationship!!! My holidays this year will look nothing like last year…fun and pleasure vs. pain and lonliness. And the MM is welcome to whoever’s bed he finds himself in, the wife or another, who cares.
My counselor said change is always possible if one of two things exist; if the pain or the prize is big enough. Well said!
2012 is not going to be the “end of the world” in my mind, for me it is “the end of the world AS I KNEW IT”, and that is good!! Happy 2012 too!
Facingfears
on 15/12/2011 at 1:49 am
I have been reading this blog for roughly a year – first time posting. I want to say that I feel very blessed to have discovered such an incredible site. Thank you Natalie! I have shared your website & wealth of knowledge with many girlfriends. What a supportive community (:
I have been doing some research in moving through the after effects of a painful breakup. Ex EUM & I broke up in May of this year. Currently I have the most supportive partner I have ever experienced to date. He is the most wonderful man I have ever met – feel like I can truly be myself around him, we have similar values – I often feel like we are the same person in two different bodies lol. I don’t ever feel myself starved in any way.
I still think about my ex on a nearly daily basis though & this is what I am trying to get past. I have recognized that he is very harmful to my psyche & have let go of the desire to be in a relationship with him. In fact I feel often elated that I am out of the relationship. I am just struggling with moving past the painful memories & realizations that I actually was used by someone I have come to believe through my research is a compensatory narcissist. Tonight I stumbled upon one website that speaks of PTSD. I often thought this was just an illness/reaction of mostly war veterans, victims of car accidents, etc but other websites have spoken about having PTSD after relationships with narcissists.
I have experienced many of the symptoms of PTSD after the relationship with the EUM ended. Does anyone here have any more insight into this they can share with me?
I am thinking if I seek therapy with someone who specializes in PTSD I may have some luck in moving forward.
Thoughts?
ixnay
on 17/12/2011 at 11:28 pm
The EMDR technique is supposed to work miracles with PTSD. It’s a short-terms therapy that uses brain repatterning via either eye movements or a vibrated pulse to sort of calm or neutralize memories of the trauma. (Includes emotional trauma.) It’s got a really solid reputation. You need a licensed therapist who is trained in EMDR — Google around and see who does it in your area.
I’m going to do it myself.
Kath
on 15/12/2011 at 1:19 pm
Wow – this is amazing. How fortunate and grateful am I to have stumbled across this site. I am day 1 in to NC with the MM, and thanks to reading all the articles and posts, I now have so much more clarity as to what has been really going on for the past 5 months. Future Faking!!! OMG, what a revealation! The actions not reflecting the words! The walls coming crashing down when he got found out by his wife! In hindsight, it was all so predictable. I did manage to end it with him face to face and I said he wasn’t giving me what I needed in a relationship, which he conceded, but I got all the lines – “no one will ever love you as much as I can” (!) “I can’t bear to think of you with someone else” blah, blah, blah. I have to admit I got into this relationship with him after coming out of an 8 year marriage, and it was too soon – today all I could think of was I had come out of the frying pan into the fire, and of course I got burnt more, and ended up in more pain! The one thing I regret, even now as I write this, is before I broke it off, I booked myself to go away for the weekend (on my own, as he is going to have Xmas abroad with his family – of course) to stay in a villa he owns. I’ve paid for the flights, everything is arranged and its happening in 2 days time. Am I deluding myself I can manage this? I have deleted the MM from my email, my phone book and what’s app (where we could have written a book with the number of exchanges we had), and we agreed a day ago that we would no longer have any contact – which was mutual. I do feel in a good place emotionally, stronger than I ever have, but I hope this doesn’t set me back.
H
on 15/12/2011 at 9:26 pm
A good friend said to me once “H, if you stepped away from the illusion of this guy and wrote down what he really is, you’d run a mile right?”. We should all live in the real world and focus on those who are true and consistent in their behaviour. In saying that, I just recieved a call from the AC this morning, unfortunately I answered it as the bumber was blocked and I thought it could have been my work…. he then proceeded to pretend he was someone else…. *sigh* How do you keep NC if they call intermittantly on other numbers?
d.
on 16/12/2011 at 3:35 am
ohmigudness! i broke NC. the FOOL sent me a text and i replied. no drawn out conversation. but, i did. i feel really foolish. i’m not spinning out of control like i want to see him. i hate when people feel the need to update you on good happenings in their life. i only responded with two one word responses. pray for me ladies. i do not want to get tangled back in the web.
Natasha
on 16/12/2011 at 5:48 pm
Oy vey d., our former assclowns are very similar. I can recall getting a text from my ex over the summer saying that he’s planning on buying a house – mind you, I don’t speak to him and he’s well aware that I don’t like him. If you think about it, who the hell is going to text someone that doesn’t speak to them and isn’t a part of their life to tell them their good news? An attention-seeker, that’s who. That’s all this guy is doing when he’s texting you. Falling off the wagon and responding happens and it’s not the end of the world. Us recoverying fallback girls have a tendency to mentally remove our options and decide the situation’s hopeless and we won’t be able to resist. I promise you that you can! I was in a boomerang relationship with my ex for five freakin’ years, so if I can do it, trust me that you can too. Hope this helps!
d.
on 16/12/2011 at 8:20 pm
natasha,
thanks for your support. his texts are becoming more detailed and lenghty. which is interesting because when we were “seeing” eachother his responses were brief. this is the first time that i’ve ever actually paid attention to the actual healing process of a breakup, but in this case we weren’t really a couple, so i don’t know what to call this that i’m experiencing.
and natasha, you are correct! he is an attention seeker. i told him from the start that he’s a narcissist and needs therapy. why is it when we see these red flags, instead of leaving, we stay? i will be blocking him very soon. i’m finding his half assed attempts a little entertaining for now. 😉 mainly because he is so stupid. who pushes someone away only to start chasing them?…gtfohwtbs!!!! who really gives a shit that he’s possibly starting a new career? i really don’t…unless he plans on giving me the money back that i spent on wining and dining his ass. i think i should send him an invoice breaking down the expenditures — everything (i.e. meals, gas, my time, sex…LOL)….UGGHHH…
Natasha
on 17/12/2011 at 12:54 am
He texted you to say that he’s “possibly starting a new career”?! So nothing has actually…happened. You are so well shot of this guy, he sounds like a leech AND a tool!
d.
on 17/12/2011 at 7:21 pm
i like you natasha! he is a leech. a complete user. a tool. and a male whore! i don’t know what i saw in him. i was very lonely and at times i enjoyed his company. but, in hindsight, i wasn’t enjoying his company because my time was spent walking on eggshells and trying to please him. jeez…
NC is working. i ididn’t respond at all to yesterday’s text msg although i really wanted to to say “go f#$%” yourself.” but, knowing him, he would probably responded “how about i f$$% you instead” because he is a jokester and that was our regular banter. so, i left it alone.
lastly, this time around with NC i have opened my eyes and see that if they contact you it’s purely for attention and to see if they’ve still got a hold on you. for example, i have a fallback boy that i reach out to only because i know he still has feelings for me. (look, i’m only a human and EUW…lol), but, in all seriousness, to be fair and considerate of his feelings, i’ve stopped contacting the fallback boy too. i’m working through my issues…
anoosh
on 16/12/2011 at 2:43 pm
heya Magnolia, Izzybell, grace, NML, great food for thought on the topic, how men we’re attracted to fit in w/our personal histories/chemistries around our own Dads. and, relationships with men who are already Dads themselves. frankly, my mind is reeling. I haven’t dated since my breakup, but I’ve been feeling quite pathetic about that since it’s 18 months. Life is very short, not getting younger, etc. Since I never seem to meet anyone in the course of living my life, I decided to go online, TRY to be proactive, at least go through the motions of looking at profiles of men who are putting themselves out there, saying they *ARE* ready. I spent many hours over a few days at a couple sites. I’d say 90-95% in my age range have kids. Such mixed feelings. #1, my exEUM used the excuse of the kids for ultimately why he had to back out w/me. he Future Faked about how things would play out, but when it came down to it, he didn’t want to create a new home with a new partner where he’d only see his kids half the time. unfortunately for me, it took him a *year* to figure that out. he moved out/separated TWO years ago, but still goes to the house every day, basically operates the same as before in a family unit, only he & his “ex” are not “together”, he just sleeps somewhere else (how convenient). I realize it’s pointless trying to analyze the situation anymore, it’s long over. but it makes me look at all these other guys w/kids so differently. who knows what games they play to win you over, and what the reality would be down the line? how much would I invest of myself, my heart before I got to see the real deal? and always, I would come second. what if the kids/wife hated or resented me?
I just can’t believe I bought into the rosy picture that was painted, I never allowed that before. Certainly seeing how deeply devoted he is just melted me. We spent time his older son, who is 25, they have an incredibly close relationship. He was so comfortable about this, I had no hint he would ultimately flip OUT about me meeting the younger kids (11 & 14). He said he had guilt, since he had the first son so young, and he & that mom didn’t work out, he had to travel very far to see him growing up. Again, that woman allowed him to come and stay in her home to make this possible b/c of the distance. Hmm, I see a pattern… btw, not one guy online appealed to me. NC,…
Spinster
on 16/12/2011 at 2:53 pm
I’ve said this plenty of times on here and in real life: trying to make contact is NOT flattering, it’s NOT cute, it’s NOT sweet. It’s disrespectful and when it used to happen to me, I had one of 2 extreme reactions – pure amusement or pure rage. 😐
Lo J
on 16/12/2011 at 5:11 pm
Grace – absolutely regarding these dads. Even with the best of intentions, they can not stand when their children have their own opinions, needs, and separateness from them because they lose control. They have trouble with boundaries in all areas.
Lo J
on 16/12/2011 at 11:45 pm
Case in point why we need to have NC of any form… and stay off their FB … ex EU/AC posted as his status a BR status post!! (The only reason he knows of BR is through me.) I don’t know if I feel like laughing, crying, or vomiting! Staying off his FB page.
Leisha
on 18/12/2011 at 1:00 am
LoJ, you have given him a gift…whether he utilizes it or not is beyond you but could change his life for the better. Good on you. You’ve led him to the water.
Lo J
on 18/12/2011 at 3:08 pm
Okay. I’ve opted for the crying. I would hope that BR would be utilized and help him, but I had also hoped his three years of therapy would help him as well. I was hopeful throughout this whole relationship, as I saw signs all along. Oh, I should have not gotten involved. He was the victim. With EVERYTHING. And I tried not to be the fixer, I’d say, this isn’t healthy, for you, for us … and he’d actively try to make changes. (Then keep silent “score” and when something came up, I’d be blasted with all his grievances against me.) And I thought that because he was “dedicated to personal growth”, that we could grow in the relationship together. I mean, I had my issues as well. And I addressed them. But I didn’t keep score or feel hostility towards him. And when he questioned anything about me, I was like, “bring it!” I know who I am and what I’m capable of. Solid. I loved this man. When I finally saw that he was not capable of loving in return the way HE EXPECTED TO BE LOVED (don’t they have the NERVE), it was like a lightbulb went on in my brain. I believe he saw that light go on as well. And the relationship ended. (BIG DRAMA) He had told my son the day before we were a family. And like that, it was over.
And now, on his FB, he is quoting BR, “You’ll never be able to move on with your life, feel a sense of personal contentment and forge a happier, mutually fulfilling relationship with someone that *values* you, if you’re an option for someone else that *doesn’t*, or only values you for what they can get out of you on *their* terms.” Probably the victim again. I don’t know, maybe someone is setting boundaries with him. I hope. Maybe somebody was smarter than I was and opted out quickly.
I blocked him.
KK
on 17/12/2011 at 8:21 am
My AC also told me the ultimate reason why he couldn’t leave was because of his kids, who are very young. His wife threatened to move back to their home country and take the kids if he left them, and AC said he didn’t want to be away from them, and to be honest I couldn’t blame him. If nothing else he loves being a dad and I would never ask someone to choose between their kids and me. I have managed to maintain no contact, but I ran into his friends at a club last night, who are all cheaters and AC’s, and they told me that the reason he didn’t leave was because he loved his wife more – it was a straight choice. Hard to hear, but the truth can be a bitch that way sometimes. Now I just have to deal with it. F*** its hard.
grace
on 17/12/2011 at 1:44 pm
KK
Count yourself very very lucky you didn’t end up with him.
I personally wouldn’t consider myself loved if my husband cheated on me and the only way I could get him to stay would be to threaten to take his kids away. ACs/EUMs have a warped view of what love is. They see it as some kind of game or bargain.
Don’t be envious of her. If anything feel sorry. And never again put yourself in a position where a man’s wife is YOUR problem.
This has turned out well for you. Stick to NC and keep the door closed and, one day, sooner than you think, you’ll be very pleased that he didn’t pick you. That’s if you’re thinking of him at all!
Franny
on 17/12/2011 at 10:26 pm
luv that look on things…..what i needed to hear also. I hope i get thru this along with you ladies
Smarty
on 17/12/2011 at 2:29 pm
This website has been my saviour – I myself LOST MY MIND over a guy that chased me unrelentlessly while he had a girlfriend overseas for work (whom has now moved in with him and he refers to as his “temporary housemate”). I have basically been in a non-relationship for the past 18 months. I am now in complete NC – i cracked about 2 weeks ago and texted him on his birthday, idiot i know. I am now completely committed to NC – he’s done it to me multiple times, and i have to him too – for some reason this time feels different, one of us always came back, i think my self respect has hit an all time low – i just can’t bear the thought of getting in contact again, i’ve lost my dignity, time to get it back.
He could smell my low self esteem a mile away, he even warned me he was bad news and an arsehole! I am usually a very grounded, responsbile, no-bullshit kind of person, all about quality of friends not qantity – he totally blindsided me. We started dating and spent every waking moment together, he bought me a massive plasma tv so i would housesit for him (i refused, only knew him for 2 weeks at this stage), tried to get me to meet his mum after a week – totally turned on the bullshit.
He was so charming and we got along so well, i thought finally someone who gets me (never had a real relationship at 27!). Then after all the wining and dining and pretty much living together he tells me the girl who was his “casual f&^%” who he also happened to work with was returning from overseas and while he’s crazy about me, he was confused about how he felt. I wish i had of run for the hills then and there, but I was hooked. I ended up behaving in ways that i would never EVER have dreamed. We called it off and decided to be friends – because he needed to be single for a while.
What do you know, he charmed me back into bed and then i had the pleasure of walking to work and bumping into them together, first thing in the morning, multiple times a week (they works next door to me). This is where I lost my brain entirely – I kept seeing him when he knew I knew he was sleeping with both of us! And I kept it up, over and over again, thinking he would eventually choose me.
I am glad I’ve experienced what I’ve experienced, only so I can change my behaviour and stop this craziness. He wore my confidence down so badly and made me miserable, i would lay awake next to him at night actually feeling repulsed by him. That’s a feeling i hope i always remember.
He had no friends other than work people – which is why he said he had to “keep her on his good side” because she was a bitch and would turn everyone against him. The only other friend he had was a girl too – now I see he had to surrond himself with women to boost his own ego. He would talk shit about her and be…
d.
on 17/12/2011 at 11:51 pm
I’m sorry to hear about your story. But, this is the time to really walk away and regain your dignity and self confidence…please believe me! He is not worth you loosing your mind! He is a liar! If he was bad mouthing the woman from overseas, please trust that he badmouthed you too. It will be difficult, so, take baby steps, but cut off all contact with him.
The guy I was seeing was seeing me and about 5 other women! I found emails, videos, all kinds of evidence to support this. And, I continued to see him for months. We all make mistakes and use bad judgement in our pursuit for love and being liked. But, when you engage with people (i.e. men, lovers, friends) who disrespect you and show you that they don’t care for you — then it is time to GO! I’m just realizing this and I’m in my thirties. Life really is too short and your time is too precious.
d.
on 17/12/2011 at 7:29 pm
and another thing…why is he sending only texts!?! same BS crumb communication….he can not only go kick rocks — he can go smoke ’em!
jodief
on 18/12/2011 at 11:05 am
So here I go again, started NC for the 3rd time with this ‘man’ who I have been in an on/off relationship with for a year. I totally fell for him. Would have bent over backwards to be with him. For the last 6 months hes worked away so we were in a kind of LDR. We spoke every day on the phone and sometimes would meet up if either of us could travel to one another. The only thing was that he was a ‘future faker’. He would promise me so many things, but they never seemed to materialise. One thing he promised was that he would be visiting me over the xmas period. So I rearranged plans with my own family and friends so that I could spend time with him. I then find out that he has no intetntion of visiting me over xmas at all. We argued about it but then he drew me back in. The last straw was Thursday. He has called on the wednesday night and everything was fine. On Thursday he didnt answer any of my calls and was the same on Friday. For some reason he is completely ignoring me. I have no idea what Ive done wrong, and although on Friday I felt like my banging my head against a brick wall trying to work out what I had done wrong, I actually now dont care what Ive done and just want him out of my life. The last text I sent was saying I cant be bothered with this anymore. He did not respond. I know that nothing bad has happened to him, or preventing him from contacting me, because there is recent activity on his facebook page.
So Im now on day 2 of no contact. When I had tried to apply no contact before, I would always cave in around day 8 and contact him. I think I wanted to use NC as a way of getting him back. But this time I actually dont want him in my life. Its as if my own heart is telling me it cannot take anymore. So I just wanted to know, would the NC process still work as effectively even though he is the one who started NC by totally ignoring my calls? It feels like I havent had closure because there was no talking or arguing like there was before.
Its also particularly hard this time of year as it was new years eve when I met him. I know Im going to be very sad over the holidays and Im scared of having a bit too much to drink, getting all nostalgic and contacting him 🙁
Groundhog Day
on 18/12/2011 at 11:53 am
ddooooonnntttt doooo ittttttt!!!!!!
leave your phone at home, delete his number, do anything by any means to not contact him when your pissed, trust me it never bodes well! and ul feel like double shit the next day (hangover + breaking NC = misery!)
*biiiig hug*
xxx
d.
on 18/12/2011 at 5:25 pm
hi,
i know NC will work this go round for you. it will be tough, but just stay strong. when someone initiates NC before you have decided to, the initial reaction is to continue to try to break that boundary and contact them for closure, say your last peace, etc. during this time of NC, even though your ex initiated NC, he is more than likely that he is expecting you to cave this time around. don’t give him the satisfaction! i know it works because another ex cut off contact with me after we broke up our engagement. i was usually the one to cave after months and go back to him, but, this time when he cut contact – i closed the door and haven’t looked back. for everyone it is different, but, honestly it took about 6-9 months for me to completely get over him, and stop obsessing.
so, continue to stay strong! and start focusing on you. because the greatest thing i’ve leaned from BR is when you take the focus off of THEM and focus on YOU, your life starts to come together, and you attract people in your life who WANT to be there. you will no longer fight to be in someone’s life who doesn’t really want you.
Leisha
on 18/12/2011 at 10:15 pm
Don’t drink, stay away from your temptations, it will take all of your strength to do this but if you give yourself time to reflect and absorb all that goes with the disconnecting of this relationship you will be back to clarity and feeling better. It takes so much effort but do not drink or compromise your mental state at this time. If you do you will likely fall off the NC horse. I know how you feel. Many of us do. Wishing you strength and healing ( and all of our ex’s as well). Please do not ever regret loving someone.
Fearless
on 19/12/2011 at 12:44 am
Jodie
These barely there “relationships” are so full of hot air, fantasy and fakery that they will in fact come to an end in a manner befitting the nature of their existence – ‘not with a bang but a whimper’ (TS Elliot)
Lynda from L
on 19/12/2011 at 5:46 pm
Jodie, Don’t get hooked on the ‘No closure argument’, you know at heart we say this to ourselves as a way of rationalising that we should make contact one last time. You don’t need it.
Practically, read over your post again, quite rightly you have said that you want him out of your life repeatedly. Stick to it.
It’s a tough time of year, if you are going to have a drink or two, give someone else your phone or leave it somewhere. Remove the temptation. Better still delete all his contact numbers. This states you mean what you say. I get from your post that you are intent on this. Good for you.
Lo J
on 18/12/2011 at 4:34 pm
And this is supposed to be my safe place.
Leisha
on 18/12/2011 at 9:05 pm
LoJ, change your handle if he knows it (if it bothers you that he’d recognise you) that he’s now on the site. You tried all you could with what you knew at the time. Go on with your awesome self and know you are going to be fine. Stay with us.
jodie
on 18/12/2011 at 7:41 pm
Thanks so much for your comments. Today has been one of the worst days of my life I just cant get him out of my head and I keep going over and over reasons why he may suddenly just stop talking to me. Its been torture. Ive sat next to my phone and computer all day in hope that he may contact me. Its pathetic. I cannot for the life of me get this man out of my system. It has been going on for a year now and Ive actually began to wonder whether there is something psychologically wrong with me as to why I just cant let go. I dont really have self esteem issues. Every other aspect of my life is great – family, friends and my job. There are also a number of other guys who are currently interested in me and have been asking me on dates. But they dont match up to him. Not even close. How can I use NC as a time to heal myself when I literally cant get him out of my head? The only thing giving me some comfort now is reading the posts on this website – which has been my saviour bless you NML – and knowing Im not the only one out there feeling this pain.
Leisha
on 18/12/2011 at 10:31 pm
jodie, You aren’t interested in anyone else at this time and that is natural while you are still attached to the man you loved. It would be unfair to anyone else if you did date. IMO there will always be men around for you to date, but if you are emotionally attached it is not a good idea to go out there yet. There is not a set time table for when you are able to do so, however, it is so much healthier to recognise your state than to find someone else to get over your ex and bypass the pain by screwing someone else and throwing yourself into the endorphins of a new relationship. Some people never love again in a couple but have lives that are rich in love in other ways. This may be the case for you. What I see from your correspondence is the waiting by the phone instead of finding other things to do. Please realise that if the man wants to get in touch he will (if you haven’t blocked him) or he may realise that it’s best to move on…whatever that case is, you may not ever know what he is thinking. Nothing is stopping you from calling him except yourself and if that is what it is then you have reasons and those may be what you need to explore and then with the understanding of why you are in NC you can further explore what is going on within you and why you are not moving on with your life emotionally. One year isn’t a long time in the scheme of things. We all do things at our own time. What I think you need to be aware of is why you do what you do. Again, the heart has it’s own time table. Be gentle with yourself.And as you sent him the reply in anger you are regretting it. When we respond in anger we often feel bad later. Perhaps in the future you will sit on your response to a situation that has upset you until calm sets in and you may respond with displeasure in a way that doesn’t make you feel bad later on. I’ve done it too. So sorry you’re going through this…it’s very hard. But, never regret loving someone.
d.
on 18/12/2011 at 11:01 pm
jodie,
NC is your healing time…like NML said in an article, use the time to focus on you. I know it’s hard…we all do….we’ve are dealing with it now. I suggest using this anti-anxiety method in which you allot yourself a certain amount of time per day to think about him. After that time, you can no longer think about him. Or, I used to write letters to the person venting, and never mail them. That way, you have a chance to say what you need to without actually seeing or talking with the person. Try, to use this time for YOU. Today was a little hard for me, but, I went to a museum and had a wonderful time. And you know what…I didn’t think about him at all. The longer you actually cut off contact, the easier it will become. Believe me, I was so wrapped up in the FOOL that I would literally spend my entire work day looking at his pictures, daydreaming about him, looking at his FB and I thought that I would never get him out of my head. It has been 3 weeks that I haven’t seen or talked to him. I did respond to one of his lame ass texts though, but I kept it moving.
Another thing that has helped me is realizing that while I’m sitting around worrying and ruminating about him, he, on the other hand is continuing on with his life. He hasn’t lost any sleep, missed any meals and he’s hanging out with his friends and possibly meeting other women. So, I had to rationalize this by finding things I enjoy to preoccupy myself and focus on regaining my sense of self. You are worth it! You deserve it! Go take a relaxing bath! Call your girls! Have a mani/pedi! Read…Whatever you do, do something GOOD for you! Screw that loser…
YOU CAN DO THIS GIRL!
JSweetz
on 19/12/2011 at 8:20 am
jodie, I can honestly say that I feel your pain more than you can imagine and I know how difficult it is to miss and love someone you know is no good for you. I know everyone says “time heals” and to some extent it does, but to be honest in my personal opinion I feel like the pain will always be there, at least to some extent, it’s like scar tissue develops and the pain is diminished, but it does become bearable. But more importantly, the one thing that has been my savior on those days that drag into weeks, is a journal that I have kept for such occasions. You see I began to realize that although yes time can help you heal the wounds of getting over someone, it can also be your worst enemy by allowing you to remember only the good times, and forgetting all of the bad times. So with this knowledge from personal experience, I began to write down in a journal each and every horrible, deceitful, vindictive, cruel, evil thing my ex boyfriend ever did to me. I wrote it all down, every last detail, as meaningless as it seemed I forced myself to purge my system of it and get it ALL out. And now, when I find myself missing him and having disillusion fantasies that he still loves me and misses me too, I pull out my handy dandy notebook, lol, and I read, and I read, and I read until I am so angry and disgusted with what the asshole once put me through, and worse yet WHAT I ALLOWED, HIM TO PUT ME THROUGH, well that anger fuels me and strengthens me to hold my head up high and my middle finger up higher! And I begin to realize that I really don’t miss him at all, I only miss the man I though he was. I realize that it’s him who’s pathetic…not me! Someday he may wake up and realize what a good woman he had, but you know what…who cares because when that someday comes, you’re going to be with a man who already knows how valuable you truly are!
runnergirl
on 19/12/2011 at 12:02 am
Hi Jodie,
I was in the exact same place and close to the exact same time last year. My first BR post was right around this time. I was a former OW and it was the worst 2 years of my life. You haven’t done anything wrong and you aren’t alone, unfortunately. My first few days/weeks/months of NC were just as you describe. He lived rent free in my head. Is all I did is read and post on BR, think of him, go to the gym, think of him, check my cell/email, and think of him. It was like I was coming off a drug. If I had it to do again god forbid, I would recommend downloading Natalie’s books. The NC Rule is exceptionally helpful in the first few days/weeks/months. Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl (FBG) is awesome. I read all about me on the pages of a book, written by an incredibily insightful author, who I’d never met, and lived on the other side of the world. Once I read it, I could never go back. I only wish I didn’t wait 5 months to download it. It took me some time and some major self-reflection before I could focus on me but it really does work. I thought there was something psychological wrong with me too. Maybe being a FBG is a psychological disorder but the only thing that has helped me out of the grave I dug for myself is NC. It hurts. It’s painful. It’s NC. It took me many months, lots of anger, sadness, and then slowly, acceptance (after a year of hard work). He was unavailable, I was unavailable, and I settled for crumbs. In the end, we wanted different things. I want a committed, loving, respectful relationship. He wanted an affair. And no matter how many times I broke NC, it ended up the same: I want a committed, loving, respectful relationship. He wanted an affair. That’s it. End of story! After a year of my stubborness to accept what is is, there is finally hope. The dog can have his bone. I am no longer struggling for it.
runnergirl
on 19/12/2011 at 12:12 am
You can do it to Jodie. It’ll take some time, some serious work, and you’ve got to focus on YOU, not him. The only way to get him out of your head is to focus on YOU. As I write this, I’m still struggling too. I simply don’t have another year to spend thinking about him. Download Natalie’s books. It’ll be the best holiday gift you ever recieved. Big hug to you and to me.
jodie
on 19/12/2011 at 9:17 am
Thanks again for all your comments. Runnergirl, I literraly cried when reading your post with relief that I am not the only person that has ever felt this rock bottom. This site really and truly has been my saviour and I dont know what I would do without it. Instead of checkin his facebook and twitter I am coming to this site and just reading all the posts, it gives me so much comfort, so thank you.
So Im on day 3 of NC but I am utterly horrified to learn that my best friend has contacted him through facebook, lastnight when she had had a drink, telling him how totally disgusting he is for treating me this way. She phoned me this morning all apologetic and regretful, and while Im grateful that she was looking out for me and had my best intentions at heart, I wish she had never done it as it has made me look sad and needy. Yes I have been crying on her shoulder for the past 2 days but she said that she hated seeing me so hurt and heartbroken and it angered her at how he was treating me. So does this mean that NC is now broken? I still refuse to contact him, even with an apology for my friend’s behaviour.
runnergirl
on 19/12/2011 at 4:58 pm
Hi Jodie,
Stay strong, keep the NC door closed and don’t contact him to apologize for your friend’s behavior. Since your friend apologized to you for contacting him, she hopefully won’t do it again. Don’t worry about appearing sad. You get to have feelings and being sad doesn’t necessarily equate with being needy.
One more suggestion: It would be a good idea to consider blocking and deleting him as soon as possible. Keep the door closed and change the locks. Natalie is right about these guys coming back around just to see if they can “win”. Keep the faith.
JSweetz
on 19/12/2011 at 7:05 am
I just want to thank you, with every ounce of what’s left of my dignity, self respect, and more importantly what’s left of me. I just permanently ended a relationship with a man who was a narcissistic sociopath. I say permanently because I had ended it several times before but always gave in and unlocked the “proverbial door”, even after a broken nose and countless other types and occurrences of abuse. This was the first time I called the police, pressed charges, and have made no attempts to contact him or reply to any of his attempts to contact me. Today is December 18th, one week before Christmas, and I found myself reminiscing about the few and far between good times and of course acquiring a sickening type of amnesia allowing myself to forget about the bad times. When doing my usual internet search for self-empowering, self-worth quotes to post on my page to help give me the strength to get through this, I came across your page, and I have to tell you…something you said hit me like a ton of bricks. It was almost as if someone smacked me upside the head and a light went on after I read: “They don’t want you; they just want to win. When you remember this, they have less power.” It may sound like the obvious to some people, but for me I truly wanted to “believe” him when he said he loved me and I would make excuses and ignore the obvious signs that he didn’t in fact love me. I guess I needed to hear it, or read it, or have it validated by someone who knows exactly what type of person he is. I feel as though you have somehow set me free, free to finally release myself from this man and now that I know it’s a “game” to him, and that he’s only trying to “win”, well I have the power now, and the key. And you can bet damn well that I will never again unlock that “proverbial door” and let him win. I’m not a victim and it’s about damn time I stop acting like one! Thank you for helping me open my eyes and regain myself!
Magnolia
on 19/12/2011 at 7:46 am
JSweetz –
Welcome to BR – hope you’ll keep coming back. Sounds like you still have a whole heck of a lot of self-respect, strength and dignity. Glad you are away from an abuser. You’re right that BR helps validate so much of our experience of these guys. You’ll find your experience isn’t unique (these guys don’t have that much imagination) and that lots of women will be able to identify with whatever you want to bring to the conversation.
H
on 19/12/2011 at 10:14 am
What is it that these guys actually want to ‘win”? Is it to keep us thinking/obessing/wondering about ‘them’ so that possibly after everything we will always be there for them as an ‘option?”. My AC randomly contacts me on blocked numbers… previous times I’d cave and go back only to have the same thing happen time and time again. The games/abuse/name calling/put downs/ hot and cold behaviour, it was exhausting and pointless not only to me but to everyone around me 🙁 He contacted me again after two months last week on a blocked number, I made the mistake of engaging in some disinterested small talk… I don’t get why he won’t just delete my number and leave me in peace 🙁 Is the best thing to do just to hang up if I hear his voice? I have told him to leave me alone but he doesn’t listen.. he does things on HIS terms…
H, I wouldn’t make this anymore complicated than it actually is.
1) As Grace said, don’t answer numbers you don’t recognise.
2) If you pick up the phone and it’s him, hang up.
3) If he calls every couple of months, then obviously you know that it’s highly likely to be him, hence around that time, batten down your hatches.
4) Stop being curious and making small talk – he’s an asshole.
5) Why would someone who behaves in this way stop listening to you? It’s like politely telling a thief to stop stealing from you and then leaving out your handbag.
6) Stop trying to understand assholes. Unless you are an asshole yourself, you can never understand them. If someone plays games, abuses you, calls you names, puts you down and engages in hot and cold behaviour, what else is left to understand other than the fact that you should run in the opposite direction.
7) If he persists in calling or starts upping the ante, get a restraining order. In England, if you call/text/email someone twice after you have already said to stop calling, it’s breaking the law – The Malicious Communications Act.
Michele
on 19/12/2011 at 10:22 am
Wow, this is so spot on. I am writing this in the middle of the night because I can’t sleep having opened my NC door after the kind, gentle approach. I opened the door a crack and it was enough to send me back into pain and suffering. Thank you, I needed to read this.
InLoveWithMarried
on 19/12/2011 at 10:48 am
It was very difficuilt for me to keep no NC since I have a lot to say ( usually afraid to say it before since I was afraid that he might leave) but last night I sent sms and said whatever I ever wanted to say….he was in shock…so I know now that he will leave me alone…I mean…I told him that I want him to divorce to have babies with me, to spend incoming holidays with me….he run faster that Usain Bolt…:)…still running probably….
grace
on 19/12/2011 at 12:17 pm
InLove
Brilliant. That’s why OWs suffer in silence. They know if they REALLY COMMUNICATED, the man would be gone, gone, gone.
InLoveWithMarried
on 19/12/2011 at 1:36 pm
Of course…It is good to dream but sometimes you have to face with the reality…So, if you you speak up, he will be gone…like a wind…so let’s speak and not to be afraid of the outcome….
Leisha
on 19/12/2011 at 9:54 pm
Exactly.
AspiringDiva
on 19/12/2011 at 11:01 am
Well, I’ve been reading the Baggage Reclaim site since June when my mate first starting acting up in a 5 year relationship drama. Repeated break ups after his anger outburst whenever I would attempt to establish my boundaries led me to finally and really do the NC thing. I have to say that I’m confused, but I shouldn’t be; I’m questioning myself, and I shouldn’t. This relationship has caused me so much turmoil. Every article that Natalie writes speaks to me and how stupid I’ve been. I always would question the “what ifs”: what if he meets another girl and acts right, maybe I am nagging him too much about marriage? All those episodes would play out. On Saturday, another episode ensued. I’m moving stuff I’m selling downstairs – three reasonably heavy bags, and he doesn’t lift a finger because he’s mad. This episode culminates with what eventually is my finale – he walks out of the house while I am in the shower and because he doesn’t have a key, he leaves the door unlocked. He doesn’t say anything. Just leaves. What a jerk! We don’t talk for the rest of that day, and then Sunday morning, he calls me four times. I don’t answer. He sends a text. Pulls me in. We talk on yesterday, and I discover he’s not going to ever be for me. This morning, I ignore his call. Decide that after reading the “Cat and Mouse” game that Natalie wrote about, that was us, and that he is just logging “Wins” in his column. I really regret having wasted 5 years with this one. I’d love to see writings about how to tell if it’s love or are you just be stupid because you want someone to love you. Anywhoo….I’m moving on. Changing my phone number, and since he’s totally petrified of my parents (he’s 42) I don’t expect him to come looking. Thanks Natalie for all your support by way of your articles. You are dead on!!! I’m reading the daily NC emails now. Before, I was just getting them. So thankful for this site.
Elisabeth
on 02/02/2012 at 5:27 pm
I dated an assclown for 5 weeks; he was 10 years younger; we had 3 dates; he was a very nice charming EUM – I really enjoyed being around him, lots of chemistry and was getting attached quickly, but red flags started going off after the 2nd date – it was so odd, but my instincts were telling me he’s shady – he started off with an ambush texting me 24/7 (never phone calls) showing lots of attention, but also sending many “stay in your own lane” signals; causing me confusion and anxiety; over time he revealed that he cheated on first wife and back and forth with her over 15 years, threw 2nd wife out, he thought marriage/relationships overrated, only wanted sex with benefits arrangement – I decided to end it with him because I realized I can’t waste my time on such silliness, he’s not the one for me and I need to protect the good life I have; after about 2 weeks I was getting past it and he sent me a text to say Hi, but I didn’t respond. It hasn’t been easy to forget him, because the attraction was strong, but I know now I made the best decision. Also, I should have kicked him to the curb after the first date, so lesson to me to heed the warning signs in the future.
Nathaniel L
on 19/12/2011 at 3:09 pm
I don’t understand why people (SOME) can’t take NO for an answer or except that the relationship is over and the other person has moved on .I’m speaking just from my perspective my heart felt belief speaking for a man that’s confident in self and who has been in a few long term relationships meaning at least a year or more they all have ended differently of course and I’m still friends with some of the women,but will never be in a relationship again with them for the simple reason I don’t back track PERIOD,because it’s NEVER the same again I tried to go back and rekindle a past relationship and it was a DISASTER,so no never again,but getting back on point and I see many men say this if I can’t have her back I don’t know what I’m going to do and it’s VERY SICKNING to be honest to me,I always live with the credo hey if you don’t want me I don’t want you and that’s just the way it is with me,so ladies if you have some sick man who can’t or won’t let go I’m sorry it’s crazy to me and I will never understand that.
Michelle
on 19/12/2011 at 3:31 pm
What a fantastic post! I wish this had been available to me 3 years ago, would have saved me a whole lot of heartache. What you wrote summed up the ex MM so well. At the time I felt like I had no strength to resist his attempts at contact ,and he did a brilliant job of making me feel so guilty as he knew just which buttons to press each time(I’m thinking of killing myself , missing you so much etc).
I decide I wanted to be NC back in March, yet he only stopped emailing and texting 3 months ago (finally got sick of being ignored). I’m so pleased I stuck to my guns and did not fall back into old patterns with him. My self esteem has improved so much since no longer being in contact with him and I’m altogether a happier person. Am also looking forward to Xmas for the first time in years as will no longer be the sad OW whilst he was doing his dutiful husband routine.
Thanks so much Natalie for all the amazing posts – they have helped me so much over the past 2 years and I’m very grateful for that. To anyone else out there struggling with being NC, I’d say hang in there – it can be done even though it aint alway easy!
Complicated
on 19/12/2011 at 3:47 pm
“But as some of you have discovered, after the breakup or during No Contact, your ex may periodically, or even often, try to get your attention.” So true Nat!!! After a fun and wonderful birthday spent with friends that I much needed, the inevitable came. The birthday wish from the EUMM came not by text as the usual MO, I had stopped responding to his lame attempts, but by email. Yes, I was feeling happy, sentimental and had had a few drinks.
I broke my no contact. I replied thanking him for the bday wishes and then that’s when the feelings came rushing back as if the floodgates had opened. I also said I needed to know if i had been used for closure from our past and asked why had he just stopped texting me since we’d been texting everyday for a year until November. (I had sent a long email last month after he did another disappearing act, saying I didn’t want to continue communication because I knew he didn’t care for me the way I did for him). He replied and said he stopped texting daily in Nov. since I had said I couldn’t communicate anymore. He also said he “didn’t do anything for closure, I don’t need closure.”
I miss him, even though he doesn’t deserve it and has never been sensitive to my thoughts or feelings for him. I realize he’s a complete and total AC. Now I just feel like some stupid, desperate school girl pining away for him…which is also how he must see me too! I’m so embarrassed and mad at myself for replying to his message and seeming so desperate like this. He must get a kick out of me making such an effort for him. I must be the biggest ego stroke he’s ever had. I see the stupidity in all this. I’m ready to regain my self esteem and no longer feel desperate to talk to or hear from him. I see now that this situation has nothing to do with him, it has to do with me. ME not wanting to be rejected by him again, ME trying to get validation I wasn’t just used for sex and ego strokes, ME wanting to not look needy with a low self esteem to him. He’s not worthy of any of this attention, my affections, etc. Wish I’d never put myself into this predicament years ago. I can’t wait for my second appt with my counselor this week. I am ready to change!! Just wish it didn’t hurt so much.
NCC
on 20/12/2011 at 11:45 pm
Complicated-
Right there with you! The first time I broke NC, he didn’t respond back…until he needed something, then the sweet little “thanks cutie” comments sucked me back in….I foolishly thought there was a valid excuse he hadn’t answered my calls the day or so before. He let me believe that too (again, to get what he needed from me in the short term), he was never one to offer up the truth if it didn’t benefit him. I took his contact and went farther, actually went to see him, only to catch him with one of his many back up plans at the house I had just moved out of. I was angry, but didn’t cry. But..i ACTUALLY said things like, “Are you over me, am i that replaceable, did you ever really love me?” This is the worst, “is she better than me?” Literally it was like I had no control over what was coming out of my mouth. And figuratively I was grasping at gaining even a scrap of control of him in that moment. when i knew i had NONE. My head was saying, SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP! He asked me to leave and shut the door on me to return to her. Basically the equivlant of a hang up on the phone. Wow, talk about humiliation and self destruction. But I guess all in all i didnt beat myself up too much about it. I played with fire and got burned. But unfortunetely didn’t stop there. He made the next contact a week after that happened, to apologize and CONTINUE to lie about why that woman was there. But this one, was the most humiliating and what has kept me on STRICT NC and honestly, these other gals aren’t kidding here when they say, yes, the pain around grieving the loss, it hurts like hell, not gonna lie. But remembering that i control NOT being put back in the humilation hot seat, that’s what’s keeping me going right now anyway. It stings that I didn’t just leave him hanging the last time he contacted me, left him with the ego blow instead of me. But, I can’t change that now, all I can do is mean business with NC and not worry about what he’s feeling or doing. I know I’m a good person no matter how badly he treated me, or I even treated myself really. I feel stong from moment to moment, then I feel the weakest I’ve ever felt, i work on all of this everyday. I’m in counseling now too, and it’s about the only thing i look forward to these days! That, and reading BR!
Complicated
on 19/12/2011 at 4:48 pm
He also had the nerve to say he would like to go back to our daily texting. I didn’t reply to this because it would basically mean me doing the texting with him replying when he felt like it. In hindsight, I should’ve emailed him back saying “Yes, you go ahead and send me texts and i’ll go ahead and forward them onto your wife.” As runner girl once said, this would send him running, but I was in such shock from him suggesting this and already embarrassed from what I had sent as a response to his email, that I didn’t say anything. Such mind f$##ery, its ridiculous.
runnergirl
on 19/12/2011 at 5:48 pm
Hey Complicated,
I’m really glad you had a nice b-day. See, change is possible!
As for the slip off the NC wagon, gently dust yourself off and get back on the wagon. This jerk is doing exactly what Nat is talking about in this article and what mine did too. Mine did the “Here’s Johnny” thing because he knew I was still receptive just like Natalie says. I kept avoiding changing the lock and taking back the key because I didn’t want to accept the fact that it was over. Being EU myself, I couldn’t commit to the finality. I made the commitment to me when his wife put a tail on us, hacked his email, and got cell phone records. Talk about embarrassing and humiliating! It was time to change the locks. Don’t let it get to that point Complicated. You can make a big change now: Block and delete and seal the door shut. He can only do the mind f$##ery if you are receptive to it. Wishing you the best.
Complicated
on 20/12/2011 at 5:32 am
Hi Runnergirl,
Thanks for the comments. They’re great as always. I got back on the NC wagon today and didn’t fall off…taking it one day at a time. I’ve been doing the same thing with regards to refusing to believe the finality of it all; although, I know it is the right choice to make. I just hate feeling as if he views me as desperate/needy now because everyone who knows me, knows this is certainly not me. If I want something, I work for it and obtain it on my own without having to rely on others. Probably because I never had anyone else to rely on other than myself. I always viewed myself as a ‘strong woman’. However with him, I seem to always end up feeling weak. I guess he’s always been my Kryptonite. Anyways, I realize I shouldn’t even care what he thinks, but for some stupid reason I do and that’s just being honest. Humiliated is the PERFECT word for how I feel right now. Humiliated that I broke NC and Humiliated that I asked all those “Did you sleep with me for closure?” and “Why did you stop texting me?” questions. As I had mentioned above, he said he stopped texting because I asked him too, but that’s not what happened. He continued to send random texts on sports banter and update FB statuses to things only I would understand to get my attention. Guess he forgot about all that and is so good at turning things around on me. If you don’t mind me asking, how did you get over the feeling of being humiliated after everything you went through?
Complicated, not to rain on your parade but I think there’s a dose of perspective and reality needed here because it’s important not to 1) Future Fake yourself (see the latest post), 2) inadvertently Future Fake others particularly here at BR, 3) keep pressing the Reset Button, 4) be in faux No Contact (Runnergirl will tell you I warned her of the perils of this when I said “Molly, you’re in danger girl” from Ghost, and 5) don’t bullshit yourself.
Think before you act and think before you speak/write because you are eroding your own credibility.
“I just hate feeling as if he views me as desperate/needy now because everyone who knows me, knows this is certainly not me.”
This is just not true Complicated and I say this to you, because if you’re actually being serious about therapy, changing, being honest, being authentic, don’t bullshit. You have two Complicated’s when there should be one – the public Complicated appears to have her shit together, works for it without relying on others and the on the down low Complicated has been texting and sleeping with a married man and relying on him and texts – TEXTS! Jaysus!
You have been behaving in a desperate and needy manner with this man, right up until you demanded to know whether he slept with you for closure and asked why he stopped texting. You’ve spent four years behaving in a desperate and needy manner with him plus you have a history that extends back 20 years. In fact, you doing all of this by TEXT is only compounding his perception of you further.
I’ll tell you how you get over the feeling of being humiliated – you stop humiliating yourself and the next time you think about sending a lazy text and reigniting the crumb of an ember that represents this ‘relationship’, remember this feeling today and take yourself as far away as possible from it. I and the many others who have rooted for you here keep telling you that you’re better than this, you agree, and then you comply with this less than situation. You don’t need to wait for an appointment with a therapist to get serious – be serious now, not for us, not for the therapist, but for you. Your therapist can only do part of this process – the majority is down to you.
grace
on 20/12/2011 at 10:48 am
NML
Abso – effin – lutely.
We all need to own our shite. I was waiting around for texts too from a MM. At some point I had to recognise that despite my brains, beauty, good job, fantastic friends and family I was being needy and desperate, and humiliating myself. It didn’t matter what the outside persona was. It didn’t even matter what he thought. What really mattered was my continuing engagement in this behaviour. Which was all 100% DOWN TO ME.
The waiting will slowly kill you – waiting for him, waiting for your feelings to change, waiting for the therapist, waiting to feel better, waiting for it to “sink in”, waiting for a text, waiting for an email, waiting for closure., waiting for the next self-help book. By all means, if this happened yesterday, or even last month I’d advocate patience. But when it becomes months or years – do something now!
In the end, the brush with the MM lasted six months. It’s too long but not as bad as it could have been. I did what I had to do before I felt ready. You never feel ready. There’s never the perfect time. You make yourself do it.
And I was sick of it too. If you’re not sick of it, you’ve become too used to it or you’re lying to yourself. It’s not because there’s anything valuable going on. Look at what is really there.
Fearless
on 19/12/2011 at 9:56 pm
Complicated,
“He also had the nerve to say he would like to go back to our daily texting.”
So there’s a man out there who is married to someone else but would like to offer you daily texts – whoopee-doo! What woman could resist? – Be careful you don’t get trampled in the rush! 🙂
Am glad you are now seeing this a little more for what it actually is – text messages. He’ll be happy to continue to take the piss out of you if you are up for it – that’s what’s on offer. Don’t be up for it. Not anymore.
Complicated
on 20/12/2011 at 5:44 am
Hi Fearless,
I know, right…Who wouldn’t want an EUMM to send them texts everyday about sports banter and the weather? It’s not like he’d be texting me how pretty I was or how much he loves me and wants to be with me or anything. Sometimes (ok, alot of times), I look back and think what was it that drew me to this man? His looks, NOPE. His success, NOPE. His professed undying love for me, NOPE. He has NONE of these things to offer. I believe it was the whole “unavailability” status that made him so appealing to me (as suggested by my counselor and makes total sense). This is the exact thing I grew up with…trying to win over an EU alcoholic father and try to get him to love me and receive validation that I was more important. Eventually all this will sink in and the lightbulb flicker of reality will become a permanent ray of light.
tired_of_assanova
on 20/12/2011 at 10:41 am
Sigh.
When my EUM and I ‘decided to be friends’ it was like nothing had changed, just the “official status” went from unlabelled to ‘friend’, and I wondered really, what the hell was the difference?
Some of these guys are like live twitter feed / facebook feed / texting news service. They’ll tell you almost anything/everything up to date in their lives (I did this/that/went here/am planning to do that) and it made me feel close but the reality was he was more like a live 24/7 chat channel.
I have NEVER EVER had someone ever send me sooo many texts. I’ve never experienced that, so I thought “oh, they must be sooo interested in me!”
Most people when they’re not interested in me- the calling/texting stops. Not this guy!!
grace
on 20/12/2011 at 2:22 pm
tiredofa
if he’s texting he’s not interested.
when people are interested they’ll make time in their calendar and turn up in person.
yeah. radical.
But I know you know this, don’t get side-tracked!
Lynda from L
on 20/12/2011 at 8:50 pm
I hear that sigh Tired of Assanova, joining you..sigh!
My ex used texting almost like a stream of consciousness..long explanation of feelings,justifications, tirades,words of love. Phew!
When I said, Nah, too lazy, you need to be face to face to say such things, it was like I had pressed an ejector button and taken him off the planet. He is probably orbiting the earth as I speak,mobile in hand…
Fearless
on 20/12/2011 at 11:55 pm
Grace:
“if he’s texting he’s not interested.
when people are interested they’ll make time in their calendar and turn up in person.
yeah. radical.”
Yeah – radical right enough. What is it with all this texting, like it means something worth talking about?!
I have often said on BR that I think I get it now and then I got it some more, but I am going to say it again. I think I GET it now! And know what it is that I get? The ex arse EUM *did not love me did not want to be with me and did not give very much of a fig about me at all in the big scheme of things. I get that he was manipulative and selfish and an arse basically*
That is what I get about him. I also get w hole lot more about me too that I didn’t get before. And I am not getting it only now because it was cleverly concealed or because it was soooo complicated. It was ridiculously simple and as plain as day. I get it now because I have been away from him for so long that I have stopped rationalising, minimising and denying so I get now what was actually very, very obvious all along – I just did not want to get it.
So all you BR ladies pining over, begging for and analysing his latest crumb or his latest text – here’s the bog basic sad and sorry fact of the matter: the guy doesn’t actually give much of a fig about *you*. If he did, you’d know all about it. As runnergirl would say, we just need to suck it up! (or get sucked under!). That’s where I’m at anyway. But maybe I have it easy because my ex EUM arse doesn’t try to bust my doors in every other week – he doesn’t do his own humiliation, he was happy enough with mine! Hey, but I am not that woman anymore – and it feels so good. Thank you Natalie!
Fearless
on 20/12/2011 at 11:32 pm
“It’s not like he’d be texting me how pretty I was or how much he loves me and wants to be with me or anything.”
No, it’s not. And anyway the guy who actually meant any of that would NOT be texting it to you – he’d be DOING it. So texting any of that would not make this any better – it would just make him a bigger tosser.
Last time I had any dealing with my ex EUM I was told how pretty I was. Did it make any difference? Nope. A guy telling you how pretty you are means eff all in the big scheme of things. Stop putting so much value on what amounts to a big load of nothing.
runnergirl
on 21/12/2011 at 1:51 am
Oh my, oh my, and o vey. It is so time for me to suck it up and walk it off. I think everything I learned, I learned playing softball. You can’t text when you are at the plate. The pitcher can’t text the pitch and the batter can’t text a hit. When I screwed up at short or second, I had to walk it off. I couldn’t text it in differently. The day I hung up my cleats was when I took a bad hop at second resulting in the worst shiner of my life. At 52, shiners aren’t pretty. It was a sign. Don’t play ball with guys who mean business even if you are playing in a D-League. I thought we where there to have fun. He thought he was there to win.
These guys seem to think that they no longer have to show up in person as long as they text about something that happened to them today and we are sent reeling because they sent a text? What about showing up at the plate?
I’ve hung up my cleats. At some point, it is just too humilating to continue to play. You shoulda seen my shiner! It was hugely symbolic of what I was going through with the exMM. Walk it off Runner!
grace
on 21/12/2011 at 10:06 am
fearless
I got those texts too from the MM, about how beautiful I am (as if I didn’t know already ha ha), how I should have married him, how he would always love me. Didn’t make me feel any better. It was still TEXTSfrom a MM.
And if I had married him – he’d have been sexting one of his exes while I was the one putting the child to bed. No thanks. There’s a reason we didn’t work out first time round and it’s not because he loved me so much!
jodie
on 20/12/2011 at 6:52 pm
Please help me. I have just broke NC after 4 days because I cannot get it out of my head why he has suddenly stopped speaking to me completely. This time last week we were discussing me moving in with him. Now I am in complete limbo not knowing what the heck Ive done wrong. To say Im heartbroken is an understatement. I am totally and utterly in pieces. I cant eat. I cant sleep. I cant concentrate on my job. Im in so much pain that at this moment in time I would literally do anything, ANYTHING, to hear his voice again, for him to tell me that he still loves me. So I sent him a message and lo and behold he hasnt replied. I just text saying that I miss him and whatever it is thats wrong I am very sad. I just want to cry and cry. I cant see a way out of this hole that Im in. I know everyone keeps saying NC will work but I feel that the longer I go without contact the more and more it plays on my mind. I just want to know what Ive done. Ive never felt so low before. Please help me .
Fearless
on 20/12/2011 at 11:37 pm
Jodie
whatever it is that’s wrong it’s all very, very wrong -that’s all you need to know. Go do something else. You need to realise that your value is not dictated by this guy or anyone else. You should read Nat’s posts on validating yourself. You seem to need this man’s approval to make you feel worth something more than a piece of crap. Are you not worth something way more than that whether he thinks so or not? Don’t you have your worth independently of him? Who annointed him with all this power? Is he God? I don’t think so.
NCC
on 21/12/2011 at 12:36 am
JOdie,
I know EXACLTY what you are going through. Fearless is right too, READ EVERYTHING ON Natalie’s site. Honestly, the only thing that has gotten me through the moments and days you are describing…this site. Every blog, not only will it empower you, it highlights links to other blogs that are gonna blow you away, like they were written for you and your situation. (dont mean to assume you aren’t doing all of this already!) Those moments, when you want to run to HIM for comfort (because when you were in a relationship, this a valid human need from your partner!) please know that he is the SOURCE of this pain right now, if anything, he may only offer further pain, or at best, a SHORT TERM RELIEF and that is NOT REAL! Him not answering your texts, that’s him doing two things: 1) increasing your pain because, and correct me if I’m off, but it serves to feel like MORE rejection when he doesn’t respond and 2) in a weird way it’s HELPING you, now you don’t have to deal with his crap, he can’t possibly offer you even an IOTA of comfort! I know these are just words, and your pain feels very very strong. But I am learning more day by day and it’s not instant, but just a few weeks ago I wasn’t in this place. I lost 15 lbs in the last two months because of my break up. It still hurts for me everyday…bad. But please know you aren’t alone, don’t give in you will only feel worse from humiliation once he does what EUs and ACs do! Blow hot and cold, use and abuse, play you, etc etc! Natalie know’s what she’s talking about. Stay on BR Jodie! OH! and “i just want to know what I’ve done.” You know the answer girl, you’ve done NOTHING wrong. You’re just expecting things from someone who is incapable of giving you what you want. If he was worried about your pain, you wouldn’t be in pain over him right now. That being said , remember you are an individual seperate from him, and you are worth loving yourself! Wish you the best.
Dublin
on 20/12/2011 at 8:56 pm
Trust the “No Contact Rule”. Don’t stray from it..EVER. I made the mistake yet again. I was with a man 4 years that is exactly what is described as “Assclown, Mr.Unavailable”. I was stunned to see in writing HIM. He has put me through so much. First he wasn’t ready for a relationship, then he was, then he’s not, over and over. I walk away he chases me and wants me back, and a few times I chased him to have him back. Yet the entire time I KNEW it was unhealthy for me and wanted to walk away. But I couldn’t, because I love him. It’s craziness. He lied to me from day one, about everything, prison, drugs, several other women, loosing his job, etc. When I found out the truth, I was shell shocked, felt like I was living on another planet, how could I ME get taken in by this con man. I walked, he chased me for 8 months. I blocked all calls, and texts, emails. He started showing up at my door, this went on for months. I gave in this past summer. Oh everything was fine and great. He was the perfect boyfriend, talking moving in together, marriage, things he NEVER talked about before. He would cry and tell me how sorry he was for treating me so badly. And I deserved to be treated with respect and love. I fell for it 100%. He found a job, and then his “pattern” began peeking through. He was putting distance between us, calls became infrequent, when questioned he would become defensive, pick fights. Same story different day. He tells me last Sunday 12-18-11 (week before Christmas) he doesn’t want to be in a relationship anymore, surprise, surprise. But he wants to spend Christmas together still. First I was so heart broke I said yes. One minute I feel ok I’ll go have one last holiday (which he always made my holidays miserable) part on good terms, then I feel…NO I’m not showing up. I’m not a stupid women, I’ve never even been in a relationship like this before. I’ve only read about stories of women getting sucked in by men like this. I was single after a 22 year marriage that didn’t have issues like this, we just stopped loving each other. Ladies PLEASE slap some sense into me. Am I so out of touch with reality, and this is what men have become?
Fearless
on 21/12/2011 at 12:19 am
Dublin
at risk of being this evening’s blogger hogger, no it is where your relationshit with this particular man is right now and it’s not going to get any better. You got rid of him once. You’ve sucked. You’ve seen. Same pish, different pants. Tell him to eff off and stay eff offed. And have a peaceful and better Christmas, better new year and better rest of your life, free of this misery-making excuse of a man.
Dublin
on 22/12/2011 at 12:46 am
Fearless:
Well I asked to have some sense slapped into me and you sure did it. No sugar coating with you. Your right it is the relationship I had with this man. THANK YOU for your brutal response, rather refreshing.
Fearless
on 22/12/2011 at 1:30 am
Dublin,
my posts on here generally reflect the tack I’m taking with myself at any given time – right now I am in no more bullshit mode with me as I have come to some very clear realisations about my own misery-making excuse of an ex EUM arse man and what he was all about and how I found every excuse under the sun to let him treat me like an option for a years. It’s depressing but I am calling a spade a spade every time he crosses my mind, so am being pretty tough with myself too – I need to be as I am really a bit of a sap! It gets better the longer you stick with NC, cos all I can think now is – what the eff was I thinking?! Jaysus! (As Nat would say).
Dublin
on 23/12/2011 at 1:48 am
I sorry your going through so much heartache. We can’t get our hearts to get on board with our heads when it comes to some men. Don’t be hard on yourself, we stumble, we get back up. I do understand the “What the eff was I thinking” like he would ever change, and be the great guy we tricked our minds into believing. Now that you know you have been his option is that giving you strength? Like a mental machete whacking through wasted love, and loyalty. I think I’m doing that with myself now. I won’t lie I still have thoughts of seeing him at Christmas. But then I think why, he is a waste of human skin, he has nothing good to offer me. He shit all over me. I let him get away with it. And I’m embarrassed, at my age (53) to be going through this. My family/friends think I am no longer involved with him when I found out about his past and ended it more than 8 months ago. I’m ashamed to even tell them I took him back and he shit all over me again. I’m glad I found this site, you and the ladies here are giving me strength. I hope you have a good holiday. Stay strong Fearless.
IDeserveBetter
on 21/12/2011 at 3:08 am
Dublin,
He sounds like a messed up man who has serious commitment issues. And little to no integrity. A EUM/AC for sure. The push pull crap, I’ve dealt with that too with my EUM guy “friend,” what a piss taker. Often flirty but no follow through.The push/pull mess that they do SUCKS. Why? Because we’re normal people who want normal, healthy relationships & they do not. Everything has to be on their terms or you get nothing at all. Crumbs they give.They want their cake & to eat it too. Selfish & inconsiderate are the adjectives that describe them best. But their charm is blinding at first so you can’t see the negative things or it doesn’t seem to bother you so much. Until one day you wake up & say to hell with it all or come to the point where you just decide to not expect or hope for more than an aquaintance sort of relationship w/them (even if you had more before). At least that’s the point I’m at. Mine has been emotionally/physically draining for me, and only now do I feel like I’m moving into a genuinely healthy place. I can only imagine how you must feel. You need/deserve better. You will find better. Focus on what’s good for u. Spending Christmas with him, would be good for him but prob not for you. Why? B/c right now you want more & he does not. And it would be rewarding his crappy behavior. Exercise self care. Sending good thoughts your way.
Dublin
on 22/12/2011 at 1:29 am
IDB:
Thank You for your response. Yes you are right, 100% right. I am drained in every way possible. I feel numb, like I have no energy to even talk to him, or deal with him at this point. I’m not even angry, hurt, disappointed at this point. When he told me a week before xmas he wanted out again it hurt like hell, but now I’m just confused. Who does that to someone, tell them how much they love them and a week later they want out at xmas. I’m also confused as to HOW a person can pretend to be someone they are not so well, for so long. And how blind I was, yes he is charming that is for sure. I have never been in a relationship like this before, I never met a man like him before. I had zero clue about his past, none. Didn’t know he was in prison for drugs, didn’t know he had several other women. And what stunned me was his car, and truck were in other women’s names, and one had been paying some of his rent because he lost his job, which he never told me about. He was basically prostituting himself the last several months we were together..with his friends wife!! It was all by accident that I found out. I was at a family event, my cousin had a new girlfriend with him. We started talking, she KNEW him, she use to live across the street from him before I met him. When she told me he was in prison for 6 years for DUI’S and drugs. I asked a friend that is a cop to find out about him, I gave car/truck plate numbers also. I was not prepared for everything I was told. I confronted him, and walked. I should have stayed walking. Huge mistake to think a man like him could have any integrity. But for me to go back to him after I found out everything is what I need to work on myself about. Why would I go back after everything I found out? I must be mentally ill.
He was the first man I had a relationship with after a 22 year marriage that had no cheating, lying, abuse we just grew apart. I met this man 3 years after my divorce.
I have to say finding this site has really given me strength. Reading Natalie’s posts are very insightful, and spot on.
grace
on 21/12/2011 at 10:12 am
Dublin
Intelligence or stupidity has nothing to do with it. The smartest most beautiful woman can have rocky self esteem that allows her to engage with crappy behaviour. Long after he’s revealed what he really is. There are women way stupider than me (smart girls!) who wouldn’t stand for half the nonsense I’ve put up with.
When someone subjects you to the charm offensive it’s easy to be taken in by it when you’re feeling love starved. Charm isn’t love, it isn’t commitment, it isn’t friendship. It’s seduction.
Don’t spend Christmas with him, tell him to take a hike. I was going to spend Christmas home alone, quite looking forward to it but in the end a couple at church invited me to their big family Christmas get-together. Good things magically turn up when you free yourself of the idiots.
Without even knowing it you are shutting down all your options by engaging with him. Shut the door, keep it closed.
Fearless
on 21/12/2011 at 1:18 pm
“I was going to spend Christmas home alone, quite looking forward to it but in the end a couple at church invited me to their big family Christmas get-together.”
Have a love filled and peaceful Christmas, Grace. Thanks for all your words of wisdom on BR this year; you have helped me through my troubles more than you could ever know. God bless.
grace
on 21/12/2011 at 8:43 pm
fearless
Thank you my dear.
I got another invitation tonight, and one for boxing day.
I’m WAY less lonely than when I had a “boyfriend”.
A man does not equal company, especially when he’s one of those twerps who hides from you until Christmas is over.
Sure it’s taken me a while to get here, I can be such a slow learner. But it’s all worth it.
Dublin
on 22/12/2011 at 1:38 am
Grace:
Thank you for your response. Again another smart reply to my post. And yes you are correct, 100% correct. I never thought of myself as love starved, or lacking in self esteem. To quote you “When someone subjects you to the charm offensive it’s easy to be taken in by it when you’re feeling love starved. Charm isn’t love, it isn’t commitment, it isn’t friendship. It’s seduction.” That says it all. I am not spending xmas with him. I have not returned his calls. I’m sure he’ll figure it out. Again thank you!!
jodie
on 21/12/2011 at 12:19 pm
Thank you so much for your answers. It means so much that people are taking the time to read and reply to my post in a time when I am feeling nothing but rejection and heartache. I have not heard back from him and very much doubt I will however I am really embaressed that I text him saying I miss him. Should I message again just to say that I didnt mean it or I was drunk or something? If I leave it he might think of me being sad and moping around (which I am). I would just love to send one more saying I didnt mean it and then perhaps say something nasty about him (i.e. his lack of sexual ability) just to hurt him, then break off all contact.
Jodie, if you really are reading the replies, you’ll know that saying you want to text *again* off the back of saying that you embarrassed yourself by texting already and that you don’t want to humiliate yourself further, but you also want to say you didn’t mean it (not true and it’ll be obvious) and that you were drunk (you’ve texted him stuff sober so that’s going to also look silly) and then telling the same person you were attention seeking from that he’s crap in the sack or that his willy is a cocktail sausage or whatever, is going to make you look 1) worse 2) juvenile and 3) like he’s right to behave as he does.
jodie
on 21/12/2011 at 4:24 pm
NML youre right, you are all right, and I know Im not the only one going through this but I am sat here in tears and have been for the past 2 days. It honestly feels like Im going cold turkey off some drug or something, as dramatic as that sounds. Its like all I want is for him to say or do something and everything will be alright again. Its like I need a hit. I know this sounds bizarre but its the nearest I can describe what Im feeling. Im in pieces. Everyone says take one day at a time. But what If Im here this time next week feeling exactly the same? Or two weeks after that? Or in 6 months time still going over and over in my head what Ive done wrong? How can I just walk away from it, put it out of my mind? I know its possible, but at the moment it is so very very hard.
Fearless
on 21/12/2011 at 5:16 pm
Jodie
you sent him a text and told him you miss him. He read it. He gets it. He is not answering you. That’s your answer. You don’t like it so you’re desperately trying to think of ways to get a different answer out of him and if he doesn’t give you the answer you want…well you’ll just insult him instead? (then go begging for forgiveness when he ignores your insult?)
I think you should stop trying to control and manipulate this guy into giving you some attention – into making everything “alright for you” and into making you feel good about yourself. That is your job, not his. He is a separate human being; whatever he is, he is entitled to do what he wants and feel what he feels. It is hard to take rejection but you need to accept that you cannot control him and that he does not feel the same for you and about you as you do about him. He does not depend on you to make him feel ‘good’ about himself (and neither he should). He is fine. Leave him alone. Deal with what is making you crave validation from another person like this. He can’t fix that problem cos it’s not about him, it’s about you – and only you can fix it – for yourself.
Jodie, I have to be real with you – it’s just been two days. If you told me you’d been constantly in pieces for 2 months or even 2 years, I think your questions would be more credible.
I know a woman who was in a terrible accident – angry and in pain and as desperate as she was to be up and walking again, she didn’t expect to after 2 days and knew that she had to go through a process. They thought it might take close to a year and she was up and about after a few months.
Another friend was raped and had to fake her death to survive the mad man. She too didn’t expect life to go back to normal after 2 days.
It’s important that you recognise that none of the behaviour you’re engaging in is attractive so you’re actually shooting yourself in the foot. Every text, every desperate attempt doesn’t convey love – it says that you lack self-control and don’t respect yourself.
For a jackass like him, you are inadvertently legitimising his reasoning behind his warped actions. Don’t give him that satisfaction.
The fact is, you’re not coming off drugs – you’re coming off text messaging. I cut contact with the man sitting two desks away from me as have many others – it’s horrible initially but then, so was the relationship in the end along with my crap self-esteem.
You are attempting to control his agenda – I would make it a priority to see a professional within the next day or so, and get the help you need. If you’re based in the UK, also note that sending more than two unwanted messages, especially if you sent the insulting text, is breaking the law. Now there’s a sobering thought. He isn’t worth even another fingernails worth of embarrassment. Stop.
NCC
on 21/12/2011 at 7:43 pm
Jodie,Natalie talks about No Contact and it’s difficulties and rewards all over her blog. AND you need to buy “The No Contact Rule” Ebook if you can. I believe that a huge first step to NC working for you is knowing why you are doing it, and then doing it for the right reasons. If you are doing it to get a reaction from him, it’s destructive and it’s not really NC. From the sounds of it you DO know something is wrong here, I just don’t think you REALLY believe right now that it’s the right decision or why you’re doing it or what you want to accomplish. Read Nat’s blog, “The Right Decision doesn’t always feel good.” One important thing to remember about No Contact, and a break up in general, and Natalie talks about this, is that if you look at your pain today, and think “how am I going to get through today, this week, this month, this year?” you’re not allowing yourself to grieve the loss and you are putting dangerous pressure on yourself to be over everything NOW. It doesn’t work that way. Today it hurts, yes. Trust me, I’ve been on the floor crying thinking I wasn’t going to ever feel differently. But then I have to tell myself, I know this is hard now, but I will feel better. If you imagine that you will be in pain just like today in two months, or six months, you’re not giving yourself the credit you deserve that you WILL be better, you WILL feel better. As Fearless says too, looking at why you need the validation from this person is key. That takes your focus off of him. If you don’t address this, my experience is that this is bound to happen again, it will just be with another EUM. I’m in counseling now to explore that exact thing. I can do NOTHING about him. Also take him off the pedestal. I would go so far as to say try not to dwell too much on “he’s fine, it’s not his job to fix me, I need to let him live his life as he sees fit.” I get that that is ALL true, but I feel like it still gives him the power in your mind, and to me it’s almost like keeping him on a pedestal still, one that says “I’M the one who can’t get it together, not him.” Does that make sense? Tell yourself those things once, twice, three times maybe if they help. But then let go and start thinking about instead what makes YOU happy, what YOU can fix, why YOU are just fine. Don’t even let HIM and why he’s so OK with everything be on your mind.
grace
on 21/12/2011 at 8:35 pm
jodie
Texting is crap, if you really want to get his attention – turn up on his doorstep, crying, begging for him to speak to you and offering sex. I did this. He then kicked me out afterwards. I remember cos it was raining.
Was I going to take no for an answer? NO WAY. After a long range campaign on my part he married me.
I divorced him within a year.
Sometimes it’s just not meant to be. All the crying in the world does not mean you should get back with him. Cry because he’s hurt you, but see it for what it is – a signal that he’s hurt you, is hurting you, and will hurt you again if you give him a chance. Stay away from him. Here’s a rule of thumb from a friends mother, who has three beautiful daughters:
“A bad man isn’t worth crying over and a good man doesn’t make you cry”.
I couldn’t resist asking – was it a fur coat and no knickers job?
Showing up somewhere was the firm line for me with my ex with the girlfriend. I just couldn’t bring myself to but it was a lot to do with remembering practically grovelling when the ex before him talked about breaking up. After me getting pretty upset, he decided to give us another try (I now know he had the Other Woman by then) and then proceeded to remind me about it a few weeks later. He made a few quips and I could see the look on his face – the woman he thought he couldn’t even get or keep had been desperate. I remember that pitiful look like it was yesterday – his ass was grass the moment I twigged it.
Natasha
on 21/12/2011 at 9:52 pm
“I couldn’t resist asking – was it a fur coat and no knickers job?”
I am CRYING laughing right now!! Just so everyone knows they’re not the only one who’s ever acted pathetic, I once considered donning a fur coat and fancy knickers (I love British-isms. So much.) to surprise a jackass that I was dating upon his arrival at my house. I thought it would be very Melrose Place sexy at first and then the more I thought about it….I didn’t want to ruin the mink. I really had my priorities straight, obviously.
Jodie, no texting this guy! If you get the urge, I want you to write down a list with a minimum of six reasons why he is special enough to embarass yourself over. If you get past ONE, I will be shocked. You’re better than this.
grace
on 21/12/2011 at 9:58 pm
NML
Pretty much but I am anti-fur myself.
How could I stay married to him? He was a constant reminder of how low I had sunk. And when all the drama had died down I realised he wasn’t worth what I had put myself through (to be fair, no-one is. He’s just a man!) Then being in a not-meant-to-be-marriage catapulted me into another self-sabotaging crap relationship (with the abusive AC). So that small step of humiliation really was a slippery slope.
Still, years down the line, I hope he got his act together and is doing well. I just don’t need to know about it.
Fearless
on 21/12/2011 at 11:12 pm
Another I like is: ‘never waste your time on a man who doesn’t waste his time on you’.
runnergirl
on 22/12/2011 at 12:48 am
Dear Natalie, Grace, Natasha, and as always Fearless,
Thank you for sharing how low you’ll go to get the guy. I can’t top your stories nor to I want to but it is truly amazing how we can sink into such darkness and despair. I sunk pretty low too. My pitt of darkness mirrors yours. Jodie, Bri, Complicated and anybody, I sure hope you are still reading these heartfelt words from what are truly amazing women who have turned their lives around. If they can do it, we can do it too. You aren’t alone, thanks to Natalie. BAR the door, seal it shut, change the locks. I’m almost getting out of the zone of despair and humilation. Love the quote Grace. Love the comment Natalie: “his ass was grass the moment I twigged it”. They really hate when their ass is just another ass. Worse, he hated the fact I finally recognized he was one giant ass. I remember the look too. His jig was up.
d.
on 21/12/2011 at 6:10 pm
So my AC aka FOOL showed up at my place a few nights ago. I had a couple of drinks and responded to his texts. I told him not to come, but, five minutes later he was at my door. He said he wanted to talk to me. I let him in for about 30 mins, my girlfriends were here, so I asked him to leave.
His effort was insincere. He just wanted to see what I was up to to keep tabs on me. And, of course brag about his possible new job. He threw a few mental jabs and insults which I just smh to, because he’s so effin predictable. Haven’t heard from him since. So, I know he only came by to check to see if I was still “available.”
Natasha
on 21/12/2011 at 11:23 pm
Oh d., this guy just makes me say “YICK.” Next time he turns up, just don’t open the door. It goes to show you what a lack of a loss this fool is – I mean, who turns up at their ex’s house to insult them and make sure they’re still ‘available’? It’s too bad you didn’t have that invoice printed up for him 😉
d.
on 21/12/2011 at 8:20 pm
i read this blog all day. NML is brutally honest. the moment you send a message you are conveying all the wrong messages. an AC, or anyone you are breaking up with will not perceive an “i miss you” message as that, they will see desperation and desperate ain’t cute. what is more appealing, is conveying the message that you care about yourself more, and that you will no longer entertain him and you are choosing to move on.
one of the most helpful posts i’ve read here was about “when you give too much” or something like that. i learned that when you are constantly the giver in a relationship, the receiver doesn’t think you’re nice, or in love with them, they see someone who doesn’t love themselves enough. i always thought that if i wanted to show a man how much i cared that me bringing them gifts, cooking, helping them get their shit/life together, being their couch therapist, etc would be an indicator of my love through actions. but, what i was really showing was that i cared more for them than for myself. and, time and time again, i was left feeling drained and couldn’t understand why my loving actions weren’t met with praise, or them fulfilling my needs. that, was a BIG eye opener for me!
jodie
on 21/12/2011 at 10:09 pm
Thanks once again for your comments. I havent sent the text and I wont. I suppose it was a moment of desperation. I just hate the not knowing. Why hes done this to me. Everything was fine. There was no hint of him not wanting to be with me anymore. He literally disappeared overnight. Can anyone understand how frustrating that feels? I mean, if there had been problems and we’d argued then yeah I would get why he would just up and leave. But there wasnt. In fact, we were getting on more than ever. He had just been promoted. We were discussing a holiday at easter. And now nothing. Its only natural to want to know what youve done wrong.
I dont know why I seek this validation from him. In all honesty, like Ive said before, every other aspect of my life is fine. I have alot of interest from other guys too at the moment, however Im not planning on dating again just yet. I have lots of friends and a loving family. I dont need or crave male attention. I just know that when I met him blew me away. I was crazily in love with him and he has broken my heart. I know I will eventually get over this, I have been in love before with an AC who dumped me for someone else and that took me about 2 years to fully get over it. But I was alot younger then. Im 28 now, an age where I should be getting ready to settle down, not nurse a broken heart!
Fearless
on 21/12/2011 at 11:00 pm
Jodie
“He literally disappeared overnight. Can anyone understand how frustrating that feels?”
Yes. I do understand. So do many of us on BR – that is why many of us are here, Jodie. First time my ex EUM did this I was floored, same as you. I didn’t leave it at that as I should have done, so I got used to it. It became the norm – he came and then he went, a veritable little willo-the-wisp.
Read Nat’s posts on how to spot Mr Unavailable – disappearing without a word, especially when things appear to be “going well”, is what they do.
Natasha
on 21/12/2011 at 11:19 pm
“Can anyone understand how frustrating that feels? ”
Oh Jodie, we can ALL understand how that feels! The fact that he pulled a disappearing act shows that a relationship with him was a non-starter. I was in a very similar situation and I went through the, “What did I DO?!” phase as well. It’s natural and it will pass. The bottom line is, short of someone being abusive, there is no good excuse for disappearing from a relationship. When he inevitably turns up again, don’t respond. I can tell you from experience that the disappearing act is rarely (and by rarely, I mean just about never) a one-off. In my case, the guy also disappeared during the holidays, so I know how awful it feels. The best advice I can give is to enjoy the company of your family and friends and know that there is WAY better out there for you!
NCC
on 21/12/2011 at 11:37 pm
it absolutely is frusertating and confusing (to put it lightly) when someone just disappears. We want to make sense out of it, that is totally normal. I wanted to lend you advice based on what i’ve been through. This last one wasn’t so much just a straight up disappearing act, but i can’t lie, my dating past it riddled with crappy scenarios (and now why i want to change!) but they all start to sort of add up to the same thing, i’m not getting what I want and i’m allowing it to happen. I think that’s part of what everyone on BR talks about as having our last straw/ephiphany moments. For me anyway, adding up all these crappy scenarios, maybe that’s helped me in this last crappy scenario. Trust me i still ask WHY again! WHY did this man who I thought loved me have me move in, only to be a total passive aggressive AC with a completely different agenda behind my back!!!??? ARGH!! (but thanks to BR I have a lot more answers) Jodie, if this guy comes back around and has some awesome excuse as to why he didn’t call or answer (and for us, the excuse doesn’t even have to be awesome!) please don’t listen. There ARE other ways to get a hold of someone, I’m so SICK of men not even bothering to MEMORIZE my number? “oh it’s just saved in my phone.” THAT is a red flag of a lazy lazy unaccountable man! B to the S!!!! Not to mention, you might not want to be involved with a guy who lets say, can’t pay his cell phone bill, “loses” his phone a lot, doesn’t answer his phone for two days, was in jail (trust me i’ve heard them all). The men who this stuff “happens” to, are not worth your time! Wouldn’t you find another way to contact this guy lets say if something happened and you didn’t have your phone? Doubtful you would leave him hanging and wondering.
grace
on 21/12/2011 at 11:41 pm
jodie
you didn’t do anything wrong. he would be the same with any girl.
i think maybe you do crave male attention – two ACs/EUMs would indicate so. it doesn’t mean there is something wrong with you, you just need to get yourself to a happy place so you make better decisions and don’t need to look outside of yourself for approval.
You’re swept up by the promises and the seduction, rather than looking for something solid.
28 is still very young.
ixnay
on 22/12/2011 at 1:43 am
Yeah, 28 is so young I think back on relationships that age and younger and think, we didn’t know what the hell we were doing, we were just so young.
Also, age is so weirdly relative. i had a boyfriend who was 21 when I was 23. He used to say, ‘Maybe you’re just too OLD for me!” And I would feel like an ancient hag. That is very funny to me now.
Lynda from L
on 22/12/2011 at 2:02 am
Jodie, hard and crazy mad as it may seem he left because you were getting on well..because plans might have been getting discussed, because there may have been a move forward. This is what emotionally unavailable people do. He would have being asked to step up, man up. He can’t do that. You cannot help him do that. He is and remains separate to you.
Actually, the more you attempt to do so, the more he will abdicate the situ.Sorry but he needs to get it for himself and most of them don’t.
You are young. Believe me,take time,invest in you,what makes you happy..make yourself curious or interested in something else.
Don’t mope. See people who make you think and laugh. See the future as stretching out before you. Leave him be.
Used
on 21/12/2011 at 10:46 pm
I read this blog and apply what I read to friends, relatives, acquaintances, and work-colleagues. It helps. A lot of the people around me, and who have been around me, are, or have always been, ACs.
I want to let you know that I am out, at the other side. Pretty much 100%. It took a while, and I don’t know fully how it happened, but I do know that reading this blog + seeing how others react to my child’s existence in this world have shown me a lot of human behavior, why people do what they do, and how badly people can act. It is true that the birth of a child represents a rebirth of your own life, in many ways. I am thankful to God that this little guy is in my life. I call him “Angel Baby” all of the time.
I thank you all, esp. Grace, Fearless, Magnolia, Natasha, and Allison for your advice and insights!
People, key is getting out and meeting people of all kinds in all kinds of different venues.
I can not wait for the New Year to come. For tomorrow to come.
Good night, and Happy Holidays!
jodie
on 22/12/2011 at 9:04 am
Hey
Thank you all for your replies. I read every one over and over and I cant be more grateful for your advice. Especially NCC – it really made me think when you said what would I do and how would I get hold of him if I had lost my own phone? And I know that I would of done anything in my power to get hold of him. He cant do the same for me and that speaks for itself. This morning I woke up and instead of feeling that awful sadness where I didnt even want to get out of bed, I felt happier and more clear headed, ready to get on with the day. I feel stronger somehow. Ive deleted him from facebook, and deleted his number and all the texts that he had sent me. There is no trace of him at all in my life. I dont think I would of been able to do that without finding this site and reading the advice, so thank you xxxx
Sadness
on 26/01/2012 at 11:38 pm
This blog is so helpful. I have so much to learn.
runnergirlno1
on 27/01/2012 at 4:25 am
Sadness,
There is a ton to learn and there is no better place than BR to learn it. Order Natalie’s book Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl as soon as you can. Natalie is brilliant and this blog attracts totally awesome people. Just bolt and seal shut the NC door for now. Read BR religiously, read Natalie’s books and within a few months of NC, you’ll have a very different perspective. There will be no going back.
You are worth a few months, right? Invest a few months in yourself instead of a him. It’s amazing what a few months can do.
BR totally changed my life. I started slowly, reluctantly, and resisted every step of the way. Then there was a line: No going back. Keep reading BR.
Fresh start
on 02/02/2012 at 8:04 pm
Hey ladies, I’ve been NC for 6 weeks with my ex MM and there’s been ups and downs but I’m still hanging on in there. I don’t know what I expected to feel at this stage but if I’m truly honest with myself – I still love him. There, I’ve said it. I’ve gone through the stages of feeling very upset, then I’ve gone through a phase of feeling absolutely furious and angry with him, and here I am….I still love him!???
We have several mutual friends and I know it’s inevitable that at some point I’m going to see him or be somewhere that he is.
I’m doing all I can to maintain no contact – there’s an event arranged for the end of Feb (through mutual friends) and I’ve had to come up with an excuse as to why I can’t go as I don’t want to see him. What I’m utterly terrified of is however, that when the time comes that I do see him (and there’s no avoiding it unless I dump several friends and social circles which I had before he and I got together) is that all of the feelings are still there, and that they come flooding back!?
Is anyone else feeling the same??
xxx
runnergirlno1
on 03/02/2012 at 3:04 am
Fresh start,
I felt the same. Congratulations on 6 weeks NC. Good for you and that is a great start. For me, 6 weeks of NC was major progress and I struggled every day. However as I discovered, 6 weeks is still early in the grieving process, at least it was for me. I still thought I loved him too but after many more months and tons of posts on BR, I realized I mostly loved the illusion of him I had created in my mind. I flipped between sadness, anger, and denial for many, many months grieving the loss of the illusion. You really do have to keep the door closed and sealed shut as Nat says. I learned the hard way. One small crack and he slipped right back in and I was spinning in the rabbit hole before I knew what hit me.
Oddly after 6 months of NC, I’m going to have to see the married assclown at an event in mid-Feb. I’m hoping he attends with his wife! Of course, he won’t. But I will now see him for what he is, a married man who lies to his wife and lied to me as well. Thank you Natalie and BR.
Always remember Fresh start, he has a WIFE and it isn’t you: Topline. Another thing about sealing the door shut, if he cheated with you, he could cheat on you. GLUE your door shut ASAP.
Leavingya
on 03/02/2012 at 12:15 am
One week ago I left my EUM. He hasn’t contacted me ‘yet,’ but we’ve done this dance so many times, I know it’s just a matter of time. When he pulled away this time, something happened in my head and I said, “that’s it, I’m done.” It hurt like hell but then I did something. I had bought a book called Instant Self Hypnosis, to help me stop smoking. It worked – so then I thought why not create a script to stop me from missing my EUM. Guess what it worked. I had to do it 7-8 times but part of my script is that my feelings are gone. I feel completely indifferent. Hypnosis is a great tool – it’s kind of like you tell your sub-conscious mind what to do and it obeys…. it worked for me – if you feel like the pain is so great and you need it to stop because it’s wrecking havoc in your life – give it a shot.
Fresh Start
on 04/02/2012 at 2:53 pm
Hey runnergirlno1,
Thank you, thank you, thank you – you’re words are so powerful to me at this moment and this is exactly what I need to hear, and remind myself of!
I think I almost felt as though I was failing at the NC thing given that I felt like only what can be described as a pinbal,l going from love, to hurt, to anger to sadness and back to love, and that it meant I wasn’t succeeding and that something wasn’t working. I guess I need to realise that the situation didn’t happen overnight and therefore will not disappear overnight either but that progress is being made and it will get easier.
I’m lucky that I have some awesome friends and family who I’ve been able to talk to and they have been a huge strength to me, and I know that one day I’ll just look back at the whole episode and think ‘what was I thinking’!!
Thank you again, and well done to you for having such strength to get to where you are! It’s inspiring! I hope the event in Feb goes well, and all I’d say to your ex MM is “watch out buddy, mamma’s got a brand new bag…..and attitude to match” ;0)
xxx
Infinite Corridor
on 22/02/2012 at 8:53 pm
This really reasonated with me today. I’m doing my damndest to make NC happen, and my streaks are getting longer, but I recently “relapsed.” I was feeling very cool and confident and thought I would be in control of the exchange. I was wrong. No matter that I told him all about himself, and used a lot of 4 letter words– it made all the old feelings of helplessness and “love” for this person who has repeatedly emotionally abused, cheated on, degraded and humiliated me come back. I asked him, what is the purpose of contacting me over and over like this? He said, I don’t believe that you really want me to leave you alone.
And why should he? I’ve responded to his BS for so long, saying I want it to end, and then talking to him anyway, that my words carry no meaning. The key to good writing, they say, is “Show, don’t tell.”
As NC has gone on, and I have more time in between my thoughts and his actions, (that is, when I don’t kneejerk react and give him what he wants), I have realized what an UNsophisticated manipulator he really is. There is no intelligence or elegance in his manipulation, he truly is trying every single key he can. It started with insults, to talking about a new girl to make me jealous, to I love you let’s get back together. How does one progress through all those feelings in a few days time? That’s how a crazy person acts! If you are feeling discouraged in NC, just give yourself a month or so of distance (surely you’ve suffered longer than that already) and get some perspective on how truly silly and like spoiled children these men are acting.
SerenityOf TheHeart
on 24/02/2012 at 3:24 pm
Just wanted to say…..THANK YOU!!! Finally a sight after searching since the last go around w/ ex husband that I can tell will help support my NC decision. My divorce was final 8 mths ago but we still commenced a yo yo relationship. We have no children together, but he has used my son’s attachment to him as a ‘power struggle’ w/ me. This no longer worked so he has continued to move down the line of bogus reasons for this n that.
Wow just wow…I knew others would be going through the same as me but to finally actually find a place where ‘we’ can blog is sooo…..refreshing. So comfortable enough that I’m typing this at work and trying not to let the tears roll! thank you
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Installing a new lock!
tired……I keep meaning to say this but forget…..I just love your name. Every time I see it on here I crack a smile. That is good. It reminds me of the “Casanovas” I’ve been involved with and “assanova” just seems more befitting.
Thanks so much for keeping me grounded and keeping me NC. I’m happy to say my sadness over my ex has left me and I am once again on my journey.
TOTALLY agree Nat!!
Part of the problem with women who routinely become involved with EUM (like myself— or my former self :-)) is that we have trouble establishing boundaries. Committing ourselves to NC is about SETTING BOUNDARIES, and once we can do that, we realize that “EUREKA, I HAVE CONTROL.” NC might not feel good (it’s hard, believe me, I remember), but it was (and IS — I still maintain NC with my AC and EUM) one of the most empowering experiences EVER. You begin to realize that YOU can break the cycle, and that YOU are at NO ONE’S mercy. Taking that step was the first investment that I ever made in MYSELF, and it changed me (and my life) forever!
RES
That’s it exactly. It’s not about punishing yourself, it’s about taking control of your life. I say it and say it – the rewards are greater than you can envisage if you COMMIT to it.
We keep complaining about these men not committing, but we can be just as wishy-washy ourselves when it comes down to it.
I truly believe it is DRIVING HIM CRAZY that I am not opening that “friendship door” to greet him!!! I’m in control & I’m sure he hates that. I kept telling him “NO” over & over again (when we broke up) to be his friend. His EGO is bruised & he’s not used to that either! ALL of his Ex’s remained friends with him – I did not!
And….. Even AFTER I told him he put a “dagger in my heart” (when we broke up) he keeps coming back over & over trying all kinds of tactics to see if I will open the “friendship door” to him. It’s amazing how selfish he is!!!
NC is great because at the other side you realise that you CAN survive the pain! You know what is at the other end.
It’s like being immunized against assclowns. First time around it will make you very very sick, second time around you zap them and recover much more quickly.
I agree setting boundaries is….hard, at least for me. Hell, I came out of the womb exposed to “EUMness” and Assclownery out the wazoo. And for someone to start talking about boundaries…I’m like what? How and what the…….
What if I set these boundaries and people don’t like me and leave? It’s not like I have a great deal of people to reach out to if some up and walk out. This made me put up with allll kinds of poor poor behavior. I’ve been in a 12-step program for years and they talk about boundaries. I am still working on figuring out what that means for me.
I wanted things to be different with the MM. I wanted to believe since I felt so different toward him and thought he did me, that somehow it’d work. Obviously it isn’t and won’t. I’m bordering Shameville now that I am seeing all the men who’ve strung me along one way or the other and puzzled at how I’m so “stringable.” I don’t call him because I know he will not answer (he’s told me he does not answer the phone). I do not text or email or reach out in any way because the last we “spoke” via text I told him I was in love with him. He kept saying he needed to think about what I’d said and “what God is trying to tell him now.” He “said” his feelings were meaningless and probably should not be discussed right now.” Then he went on to say what an “amazing woman I am.” At this point, I have no idea what I could possibly say to him? He has never said anything else so it feels like I would only be begging for his validation or attention or acknowledgment of what I’d professed if I contacted him now.
The old me would have sent some emails or even texts saying “did you get that,” “what do you think,” “how do you feel….” and so on. I’ve been down that road before many times over asking and pleading with a man. If I did, which I won’t, contact him it would be to say “Well, it’s apparent to me that you’ve thought and your decision is to ditch this and go on with your life. Was this ever anything to you at all? Did you even care? Why don’t you want to be with me? Why don’t you want me?” Yeah, saying all that sounds pretty pathetic.
coloro
“good fences make good neighbours”
I get on better with people because I HAVE boundaries. When I didn’t have boundaries I was always worried that people would want too much from me, or I panicked about looking stupid. Yes, that’s a boundary issue – you’re overinvested in what others think of you. Your boundary has become fuzzy and you mix up what you think of yourself (badly) with what others think of you. I couldn’t just ENJOY people. It was too stressful for me.
At church today I chatted to a no. of people about: their medical problems, the economy, engineering, knitting, children, Amsterdam, cleaning. I just wouldn’t have done this when I had NO boundaries. I’d be too busy wondering what they were thinking. And, then, inevitably (it’s church after all), I get invited to THIS meeting and THAT meeting and was able to say no graciously and without feeling awkward. What I really hate is feeling forced to say yes and then either not turning up and feeling like an AC or turning up and feeling resentful. I hate it so much that I would go out of my way to avoid interaction and thereby avoid being asked. But get this, they did not mind me saying no at all. Because they’re not trying to use and abuse me.
All that rambling aside though, your lack of boundaries hasn’t netted you a satisfying relationship or made you happy, so try something different. You can’t keep banging your head against a wall and wondering why it’s hurting.
As for what God is trying to tell him:
“Thou shalt not commit adultery” comes to mind. There aren’t many (respectable) religions that condone extramarital shennanigans. Many non-religions people don’t like it either. And, I hope it never happens to you – you wouldn’t like it if someone did it to you. Keep the door closed.
Awesome, Grace. My friend told me this one day, and I thought it was pretty neat, “What other people think about me is really none of my business.” I sometimes picture in my head a line or wall between me and another person (especially boundary busters) … literally picturing that “boundary”. Really is helpful for me.
Just For Today the door’s shut. I am living moment by moment just for today. God grant me……..
I have been NC for over a year – or almost a year? Since I have sent a random text or two last January or February… What was confusing in the beginning was that after the breakup (on which, I thought, we both agreed), the EUM (oh, it almost hurts to call him that although all signs were there) spent three weeks to convince me to stay friends, and when I finally said yes, he never talked to me, or communicated with me in any way. Why would someone do that? I realize it does not matter for the actual results or lack thereof of our relationship, but it caused me pain and I would prefer to understand.
Try http://www.facebook.com/mrunavailablefallbackgirl/posts/295322810507418
P.
they do it to make themselves feel good.
“I can’t be that bad a guy, P says she wants to be friends with me.”
Then, the thought just flies out of his empty head as he chases more women, or whatever it was he was doing that caused you to cut him off.
I hope you haven’t been thinking about this for nearly a year. Time to let it go now. I would add that you don’t want to be just friends or you wouldn’t be so upset about it. Even if he did turn up with genuine friendship, I’d still tell you to drop him because it’s too unequal.
You can be his friend when you no longer want to be his friend.
NML and Grace,
Thank you. I do not “miss” him anymore (put in quotation marks because I do acknowledge I miss some of the things we did together), but reading BR and the EU/AC concepts reminds me of the relationship; in a way I am probably seeking validation I did the right thing, because I was/am? conditioned to never put myself first, to please everyone, and I did not even know what boundaries were till last year. As in, I did not know the word or what it meant in people-sense.
Grace, you are right, and I was the one who did not want to be friends; and you are right, if it still “matters” then one should not even try.
@NML & Grace-love!
yep. whenever i “long for his friendship” i have a convo with myself basically asking myself why i would even WANT to have a friend like him?!!!!! i wouldn’t even want a girl-friend like that!!!
so really, wanting a friendship is just me wanting to validate myself through him that OF COURSE i’m AWESOME because he still wants to be friends with me! ha! (he doesn’t-haven’t heard from him since i went NC & i actually count myself lucky i haven’t heard from him since every day i grow stronger from being with the reality of who he is and i don’t think i would have been able to stay NC if he happened upon a vulnerable moment with me….)
I refused to be a ‘friend’ when i was offered this when i was unceremoniously dumped after 3 years together, particularly when he was moving house and wanted me to help him clean up the place when he moved! The audacity of the Narcissist, so full of himself that he thought i was so into him i would become a ‘friend’ not a ‘lover’ and then be demoted even further to be a cleaner. I told him perhaps the woman he was cheating on me with would like to apply for the position of ‘scrubber’.
Its been well over a year since i have heard from him and as for any contact, he would never get back into my life!
@madam butterfly,
Your post chilled me to the bones, for some reason. Partly because I always identified with the character of Cio-cio San and that once upon a time, barely 1.5 years ago, I happily volunteered to be scrubber/cleaner when my ex-EUM/Narcissist moved house. I went around the messy apartment with trash bags, picked up everything, and washed dirty dishes that had been sitting in the sink for months. Why? I guess I really wanted to be in his good books. Not anymore. Sometimes, I feel miffed/troubled when I think about how he *isn’t* even trying to break down my closed door but that is really just my ego speaking. I didn’t even get a chance to keep the proverbial door closed shut because he can’t even lift a finger, not even to sms anymore. Am much better these days on the whole.
Re the mind bending audacity of these men….my ex told me when we were first together about a girlfriend who refused to come out and see him when he had broken an ankle. At the time I wondered at her lack of care.
I now know she had left him after another bout of extreme verbal abuse, was in fact his OW, who had been promised a life with him for years,had left him after it became finally clear it was sex and not much else on the table(he had left wife but still not commited to her..)she finally got wise and abdicated.
I now see this in the context of how he treated me, and the woman before me and sadly the woman yet to come. EUMinfinitum!! He’ll never change, thankfully I did.
My GF should read this.
She recently broke her NC with a man that she was involved with.
This man has put through all kinds of insanity…from cursing her out in the street, finding out he had a live in Gf and the most recently being gone for the past 6 months.
She wrote him(IDK why but it was a completely wrong move)telling him she had hoped everything was well with him and his family.
He responded with the typical “I know it’s been awhile”…. “I do miss you’!!!! statements.
He made other statements BUT they are all irrelevant because she broke the NC he now knows that he has COMPLETE access to her.
What she DOESN’T see it that regardless of his comments: “I still feel you deserve a better man than me”… etc… she REOPENED the door for him to walk right back through and he WILL eventually walk through it.
Doesn’t matter how many live in GF’s he has, how many statements he wrote eluding to the fact that he wants her to move on the bottom line is this…He’ll be back not only based on what I have already said BUT because he has her keys, he has clothes at her house and more importantly he stated in his email that he “Didn’t want any one else to have what he had(especially in the sex)department and that he “Could come by every now and then”.
All she did was opened the door for more PAIN and MISERY.
“sending you dumb jokes, weather and sports commentary, asking if you’re friends yet, provoking you with information about them with a new person, sending nasty messages, sending apologetic messages, turning up, moaning to your friends, pitching themselves to your family, slagging you off knowing full well that you’ll hear it back and may confront them, making up lies, claiming that they’re ill, claiming that they’re dying, claiming someone else has died, claiming that they don’t think they can live anymore, saying that they have to get something from your place even though there’s nothing there, reneging on agreements to pay you back, claiming that they’ll leave their wife/husband/partner, claiming that they’re almost ready to leave, and the list goes on.” – my ex has hit about 50% of the above after we broke up.. He told me he was diagnosed with cerebral hemorrhage, he started befriending all my friends on fb, sending me apologetic messages, negative messages…
Stay strong girls!
bubbles
I think there’s something wrong with me – when I read “cerebral haemorrhage” I burst out laughing.
What will they think of next.
Sometimes I think that a lot of these AC’s and EUMs share common traits with Fallback girls and I kind of have trouble now distinguishing between the two.
I get that they’re both EUM- but what distinguishes EUM from FB other than both being unavailable?
tired of assonova
The difference is, I think, that the FBG gets used and the EUM is more of the user (or vice versa, there are fallback girls and EU women). See above, where madam butterfly’s ex wanted her to come over and do the cleaning. Thankfully she said no, but a lot of us would have leapt at the chance! EUMs have no problem asking for cleaning, cookjng, sex, threesomes, extramarital sex, sexting, dirty pictures, friendship, a foothold in your life etc. FBGs have trouble expecting anything and think a text is a Precious Gift or that a MM using them for entertainment is valuable. We say we want love and commitment (or pretend that we don’t), then chase unavailable men and complain about what we get. As the Radiohead song goes “Girl, you do it to yourself, you do. And that’s what really hurts. You do it to yourself, just you, you and no-one else”.
FBGs suffer more. Please don’t mistake that for love. Yes, I have suffered and hurt for those I genuinely love – when my nieces get sick, or when The Dog died (I sure did love that dog. I’d trade a lifetime with any of the exes for just one more day with The Dog) but it’s a different kind of hurt. And it’s heart it feels right and good and normal. Whereas the FBG drama is just frustrating, self-hating, anxiety-inducing, depression-causing, self-esteem shattering horror. Don’t do it to yourself!
Talking about The Dog, I had to take him down as my profile pic on a website as I couldn’t bear to keep seeing him. I still love him and I don’t forget him but why torture myself?
Tired, without doing chapter and verse as there is a whole book on it and lots of posts – look up for instance about copilotted relationships.
One is a driver, one is a passenger.
Mr Unavailable (or Miss) is the always the driver, the one with the more powerful role.
The Fallback Girl (or guy) is the passenger. They may think they start out as a driver but at some point, there was a bait and switch. You can’t be defaulted to or fallen back on if you’re not a passenger.
Each party behaves in similar ways because you’re both Unavailable, but nonetheless *differently*. This is determined by the two roles which creates a dynamic where you each feed into the others behaviour.
Eg he likes to keep his foot in the door and you like to leave it open.
Tierd, I was thinking the same thing, when I read the post and saw the picture of Johnny I thought that was me. I seem to be one who tries his locks, rather than vice versa. When I read some of the articles I see myself as the assclown or euw and can’t distinguish it from being the fallback girl. Maybe they are interchangeable.
I couldn’t agree more, Grace, I do it to myself or rather did it to myself. I’m investing in a lock.
Bubbles,
That man needs to get a life…you’re well shot of him
First of all, that “Heeeeere’s Johnny!” picture made me snort-laugh so hard! Some of these guys wind up looking totally deranged, so it was perfect. You really can set your watch by some of them. My ex used to pop up at mid-Spring, mid-Summer and then the full court press came at some point between Halloween and Thanksgiving. This Turkey Day was such a treat, because I got one text from him a few weeks before, ignored it and then that was it! He got the message, “Access revoked, son.” It’s really funny, because the message was like, “What’s been going on in your life?” He doesn’t know my code anymore, that’s for sure. I really feel like I’ve communicated loud and clear that I’m no longer an option and it’s a REALLY great feeling 🙂
Good for you Natasha. Glad to hear.
The BIG BAD WOLF walks away with his tail between his legs … we finally see him for the dirty (weenie) dog he is. Actually pretty pathetic. Not quite as glamorous as we once thought, huh?? And gets less scary as time goes on. Ahhh … isn’t clarity a wonderful thing? Keep the door shut.
Yay Natasha!
Thank you ladies! 🙂 It took just about a whole year for the message to get through, but it was so worth it. If I hadn’t found BR, I’d either be on year SIX of being this guy’s option or I’d have taken him up on his offer to be “friends”. Yick. Thank you again for the good wishes! *Big Hugs*
Hello and thank you, natalie!! this post could not have come at a more appropriate time for me, as i’ve just broken up with my fiance and it’s been very tough to deal with. he was harassing me via emails and calls. at first i answered b/c i was so annoyed, then i stopped after a barrage of angry drunk emails from him, followed up by a, you guessed it, sappy, dramatic email. and no, i kept the door shut. it’s all very painful, but, i’m keeping the door locked.
i am so thankful that this site exists b/c it’s helped me realize a lot about myself and behaviors of the Ex. i enjoy the posts and the comments too, which are also insightful.
After having opened my door twice and being greeted with the same BS, when he came a knocking for the third time he found the door locked, key thrown out and if he listened closely he would have heard me singing that great Fats Domino song “I hear you knocking but you can’t come in. I hear you knocking, go back where you’ve been. You better go back to your used to be cause you and your love ain’t no good for me”. You send a stong message with NC without sending a message at all. Taking it one day at a time and actually starting to feel good. Who would have guessed! Strength to all.
What if my EUM breaks the “No Contact”, after 1-year & buys me a gift saying “Happy Holidays, I hope you & your family are doing well”??? My first thought is to return it, sending a note saying “no contact means no contact & giving a gift is NOT appropriate & he should respect my wishes — A “kind” gesture is not “kind” from an ex-boyfriend who dumped you”. He never gave me a Christmas the 5 yrs we dated!!! Really pi**es me off he gives me a cool present now (How I see it – to try to Win me over again).
Send it back with no note and no other communication. That will send a stronger message than an explanation.
IMHO, donate it, or re-gift it to someone else, or keep it for yourself, whatever. I wouldn’t send it back. Sending it back still gives them what they wanted from you in the first place, your attention. That’s what they crave. Contact from you, even if it’s in a negative form, (for example telling them to get lost, or returning a present with no response, or telling them, thanks, but no thanks, or cursing them out and telling them what a jerk they are) to them it’s still an ego stroke, a reward, a score. Sick, I know, but it’s how these people are. Any contact or response from us no matter if it’s negative or positive they like it. SO the best thing we can do is cut off their “supply” totally and completely and ignore, ignore, ignore. Unless they start stalking you then it’s time to take action.
Don’t feel as though you have to be a “nice girl” and respond to their bids for friendship or to catch up with what you’ve been doing with your life. Never forget that they aren’t really interested in YOU, they are only looking to see if they can get their supply of attention back. You know how easily you can get caught up in all their bullsh*t and start falling for the old tricks they used to use to reel you back in. Stop and think, is this good for me? Remember he really doesn’t have your best interests in mind, if he did he would just leave you alone. He knows why the relationship ended, he knows you don’t want to hear from him, and why you haven’t contacted him. The relationship was broken, that’s why they call it a break up. Remember you teach people how they can treat you. If you have soft boundaries, people who mean you harm will take advantage of that. I once heard the saying that people who want to hurt me will only be able to if I give them permission to. Don’t give someone that you know from their behavior towards you anymore access to you. Once you’ve broken up with them for whatever reasons don’t be foolish thinking that they have some how changed into the man you needed them to be. Haven’t we already given them chance after chance? Be good to yourself, because they certainly aren’t. Go over your list of reasons why you broke up in the first place so you don’t get to thinking all romantic and fairy tale, fantasy land thoughts.
… me are the ones that wanted sex. Not because they really loved me, had changed and were now able be in a mutually committed relationship. This isn’t a fairytale hollywood movie, this is real life. And the sooner we learn that truth, and accept it, the better off we will be. I’ve learned so much here about unhealthy relationship habits that I have and I am learning to change that. Better late then never right? Hang in there ladies, we can do it. We CAN and ARE doing what’s best for US.
Words of wisdom, Dawn. You summed up my problem- soft boundaries. Couldn`t understand as I thought I always had boundaries and people violating them made me miserable, but I just couldn`t defend them for the fear of being not nice or understanding enough or too needy or unreasonable. So I ended up overstepping my boundaries with them. Then feeling guilty and angry at myself, while the EUms pull whatever stunts they want. My first reaction to the gift dilemma was to send it back with no explanation, but you are right, it`s still a reaction. I don`t know when I will finally get rid of this automatic reaction to do right by people, rather than doing right by myself.
I agree with dawn. You should not acknowledge ANYTHING they try to get your attention, including giving you gifts!
Nobody put a gun to their head to send you something and spend their money on you. You don’t owe them an explanation, and in fact trying to explain “no contact” to them is you BREAKING CONTACT. Don’t do it.
Unless the gift is something you actually could use or want, I’d give it away, donate it, or toss it in the trash, and stay NC.
I received a postcard from my former EUM last summer after months of NC. I recognized his writing on the postcard and I didn’t even bother reading it. In fact, that postcard never made it out of the Post Office after I found it in my P.O. box – I tossed it in the trash before I left the building!
Elle,
I agree! Do not send the gift back. Contact is contact!
Remain in NC. He will eventually get the message.
@ Elle Jae
BTW, congrats on not falling for his ploy 🙂
What a great day for me to read this ! Just as I was feeling lonely and thinking maybe I should break my no contact rule, this reminded me why I shouldn’t. It’s not a game of tug o war if the other person isnt pulling. Thanks you !
“Your ex comes along and tries to open the door, but discovers that their key doesn’t work. They keep trying it but no result. They have a root around and pull out a selection of keys that they know used to work on you. Still nothing. They come back another day and try to jimmy the lock with hairpin. Another day they try with a credit card. Another day they kick at it furiously and you’re near crapping yourself and feeling you should cave in and unlock, but you hold your ground.”
About 30 yrs. ago or so, I read a book (can’t remember the title) which explains how people who know you, or at least are familiar with what buttons to push to get whatever, will try the usual buttons, and when that doesn’t work, they try new buttons, or they escalate the intensity of the usual buttons. One day they’re sweet, the next day they have tickets to a show you would love, when that doesn’t work they start an argument, etc. etc.
What was brilliant about the book: the tactic to use if you have to deal with the person, is to not show any emotional reaction whatsoever. Not anger, not sadness, not frustration, not happiness, not disgust, nada, nothing. A total neutral emotional state. When the person is not getting any reaction from you whatsoever, you can sit back and watch them try everything to get one from you. Basically you’re detaching yourself from REACTING in any way, and as a result you can objectively watch them try every trick in the book to get one from you. You’re job is to simply sit back and pay attention to how they are trying to push your buttons and what tactics they’re using. If they say something that upsets you, stand back and pay attention to the feeling of being upset, realize that is their goal, but don’t feed them anything.
When everything they do fails, in most cases they’ll realize what they’re doing, because in every attempted interaction with you, they’re the only one acting/reacting – it becomes blatantly obvious. I tried this years ago when breaking up from a 2 yr. relationship, and my ex tried everything, until he got to the point where he exploded. I still didn’t react. An hr. later he called and apologized and left me alone after that.
(We are often in some way doing the same thing when we try to get a reaction from an EU…)
NC is basically achieving same thing, without having to expend any unnecessary energy.
WOW ok, so i’m doing the right thing. It FELT right. Just to not show any interest whatsoever. Mostly cuz, I don’t HAVE any interest lol… i suppose if nothing from attempted chit chat to ignoring to glaring to complaining…doesn’t get anything but businesslike, professional and utterly disinterested-beyond-that response, at SOME POINT he’s going to have to see that he’s being a ‘tard. thx!
yoshizzle I personally think you’re doing the right thing. The point is not to engage in the power struggle, the ego, or whatever it is…. The second there is engagement, it paves the way for them not having the responsibility of seeing themselves clearly. If you see an escalation in his tactics, stay calm, let him expose himself on his own.
Going and staying NC with the last two ex’s has been the best thing I’ve done. One was an AC , the other an EUM, both have hurt me and didn’t treat me with respect, one was abusive. Now I treat ME with respect and won’t respond to any of their attempts to be in contact. What’s the point in signing up for more bullshit, really? Yeah, it was hard at first but it was the only way to get clarity and not lose my mind an d it worked! Talking to them only ripped off the scab and made me feel like shit. Now I’m in control of this thing called my life and they have no power or choices when it comes to me. It’s been a year and a half NC from the AC…..I’ve moved on and no longer think about it. The EUM breakup is fresher and it still bothers me to see him around so I avoid him. One day after the breakup I wrote ” I need to let you go” in the sand and walked away knowing the tide would wash it away during the night. Now my feelings for him are drifting out to sea, farther from me each day and disappearing.
I love that picture of Jack Nicholson. I laughed out loud when I saw that. It’s the perfect image to represent these clowns who are out of control in attempt to gain control.
I wish I had seen this post two weeks ago! My ex-AC pulled out all the sob stories for me, even apologized, but I sit here and think, what an AC. LOL I am sad that I broke 4 months of NC, but in some ways, going back for two weeks of back and forth emails and a couple phone calls, and me getting burned (not that he hurt me more, but my rose colored, revisionist history glasses came off), I am very confident now that this door has been closed forever, the access code changed, and the AC App has been removed.
The only question I have is why I fell for the crap in the first place. I cannot fathom why.
That’s the “suck it and see” ending. You went back either thinking things would be different, or your hard-wiring simply fell back into place because you had not conditioned yourself and reprogrammed your neurocognitive responses long enough to NOT CARE and AVOID HIM.
Trust me – enough time goes by and you really won’t give a fig about them anymore.
I subscribe to the neurocognitive approach – I think stopping contact and “not caring” any longer is kind of a combination of reprogramming our brains AND psychologically just gritting our teeth and white knuckling it for a while.
Basically, it has to become a HABIT to not have contact. That takes time – your brain has to have different processes going on for you to not care anymore about them.
The way I did neutral emotion was by saying “that’s nice”, “uh huh” or nothing. You have to be prepared for a major escalation in tactics from them, it can be really tough to not react, just like it’s tough to do NC.
Thank You Natalie! this article was perfect timing for me,my EX attempted to contact me after over a year of NC, obviously the motives are selfish, as the contents in his letter only include what they wanted to know, expect and were asking about me…and there were no apologies or genuineness anywhere in the content of the message.
NC was the best decision and only way to move on from people who just are not healthy people to have relationship with. It’s good to know that after a full year of NC the feelings are not as strong, and it’s much easier to let this dysfunctional relationship leave my mind, andf soon become a distant memory.
Amazing, that’s you! Just two days ago my ex -lover ( he broke-up with me and I nearly dies of a broken heart) phoned me from South America, of all places, that is where he lives once again. I hadn’t heard from him for over a month and thought he had gotten a new girl, or was satisfied with whatever else he may have gotten himself into. It was a little upsetting to think these thoughts, but I knew in the long run it was a better option than me dropping any interest hints by e-mail or texting (if he can even receive them there? And I was very good and did NOTHING…and pop, he called and left a message for me to call him back, he repeated the number and his request 2 times ( he is spanish so I guess he thought I wouldn’t understand the first time. He is also a narcissist. His timing has always been impeccable.
Also, love the identification with the keys that open us up to them, how very right you are, good description.
The really amazing thing is every time I even think of going there to visit and being with him I start to feel a bit ill and remember all the horribleness I let myself be put through with him. The price was too high. And I am not calling him back. Thank you for helping me once again.
Always on time Natalie.
Jess
A great reminder of why I kept the door shut. I made high drama out of the AC’s attempts to contact me at the time; the attention flattered me more than bothered me and I guess being all, “Can you BELIEVE what this guy is doing?” felt good. If he were still at it, yeah, I’d probably still enjoy it but lucky for me he has stopped. Lucky for me because I’d just be down on his level, enjoying the feeling that I’m the one in control and he is pining for me.
I’m glad he pursued me for a bit, mainly because the behaviour was so clearly inappropriate and totally validated my decision to break it off. I’m glad when he showed up at my work I said no more than exactly four words: You. Should. Go. Now. And I’m glad he respected that because I needed time to get over not just him, but to get over myself.
I had a taste for inappropriate attention. As long as I’m letting some guy feed me “junk food” attention, all zingy chemical flavour and no nutritional value, I’m letting my emotional arteries get all clogged up.
I needed to go on the “junk attention” (and BS) diet. I am happy that after so many months of putting up with AC behaviour that I can congratulate myself for having behaved in my own best interest after the breakup. Putting a lock on the door to me felt like a real gesture in saying “I value myself!”
So months later, when attached guy starts giving me all kinds of focussed attention, I recognized it for what it was. He was putting on the charm, the “I-value-you” attention. What he wasn’t prepared for was me actually valuing myself enough already, thank you, and intimate questions from a married guy didn’t feel like the “special” attention he meant it to. In fact, it was kind of insulting.
Neither the AC nor recent Frosty-man ever tried to contact me after I said, directly to the former, indirectly to the latter, that I did not want to be pals. I have to say, Mags, I too would have probably relished in the attempts, because, as it was, I had to accept that they weren’t really as keen on me/us as I had thought. Frosty did call a week later. Admittedly, he essentially blew more snow in my face, telling me all this stuff about how he wanted his autonomy, how I was a decent person, but not the right woman for him. So, I’ve never had the pine! Just more ‘It’s right and good that this is done!’ But, I do know that’s a good thing. It would mean the possibility of another round with people who harmed me, quite deeply and traumatically in one case. And, in more generous moods, I can see them as leaving me alone as respectful and loving in a way. I love this idea of emotional arteries.
Elle
I’m with you. Much as I think the returning childhood sweetheart/MM was a bit/lot of an ass, he did have the decency to leave me alone when I finally shut the door in his face. It doesn’t make me feel less attractive or worthy that he’s given up. Maybe I’m deluded but I think. “At least he had that little bit of respect for me”. I wish him well, I really do, he has a little girl and what seems to be a lovely wife.
I can wish him well because he’s not hammering down my door!
NC is a wonderful thing.
I agree, Grace. At first I was insulted and pissed that the MM didn’t attempt to contact me after our split, but then I realized that he respected me enough to leave me alone~a shard of decent behavior. He’s still an ass but I’m grateful that I never had a Jack Nicholson moment.
ditto– whenever I start wondering “why has he never tried to contact me, to reconnect, to tell me he’s sorted through all his stuff and is ready to be in a relationship” I realize a) because he isn’t and b) because I told him not to! and increasingly c) because we’ve both moved on and it would be awkward.
It’s like wondering “why hasn’t he disregarded my needs yet again to call/text/email me even though I made it clear that I don’t want him to and I am done putting his priorities/desires/problems before my own?”. Truth is, the ball is not in his court- I took it back a long time ago and I’m mostly just glad that he’s followed directions and respected my wishes.
Ladies, the irony of this is my last ex, the one who chased me down the longest and most persistently….didn’t like me. I mean literally did not like me and had no desire to be in a relationship with me. Once I got wise to that, believe me, it stopped being flattering!
“So months later, when attached guy starts giving me all kinds of focussed attention, I recognized it for what it was. He was putting on the charm, the “I-value-you” attention. What he wasn’t prepared for was me actually valuing myself enough already, thank you, and intimate questions from a married guy didn’t feel like the “special” attention he meant it to. In fact, it was kind of insulting.”
Thanks Mags for sharing that story. It is proof positive that we CAN change our unhealthy ways of thinking into healthy ones. I am so thrilled for you that you’ve turned this corner! Inspiring.
Magnolia,
“I had a taste for inappropriate attention. As long as I’m letting some guy feed me “junk food” attention, all zingy chemical flavour and no nutritional value, I’m letting my emotional arteries get all clogged up.”
I can relate. Any and all kinds of attention would do. I used to date a guy that would spend his time outside with his buddies while I was there. I literally laid in his bed for hours until he would come in and pay me a bit of attention. What I should’ve done was told him obviously he’s too busy to spend time so I’m going to make myself useful elsewhere. But I hung around because I was so starved and desperate for that crumb.
Admittedly I am scared though. If I go walking around thinking (and this feels arrogant) I’m worth positive and genuine and consistent attention from a mate, then am I building myself up for letdown? Am I being unrealistic? I’m not asking a man to put me on a pedestal. I am afraid of getting hurt.
ColorO,
This song, when I first heard it, sounds like a conversation between an FB girl and an EUM, and your post reminded me of it. It’s been a long time since I hung out in some guy’s room waiting for him to come to bed, but I did do it. Thankfully we’re far from that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noLrCDzAp5M
“Girl, wait on me”?!!!??? Hell to the no. Someone needs to point Lily Allen to Baggage Reclaim!
As to the attention thing, I don’t think any decent guy should really want to give me too much of the kind of validating, it’s-ok-little-girl-you’re-safe vibe that I was looking for (and to be fair, that our culture encourages women to seek out). So I have stopped expecting to get the right amount of the wrong kind of attention.
I figure that as I grow, I’ll enjoy better quality attention from my relationships. More equal, more mutually admiring and respectful. So, like a very fine quality chocolate, I don’t think I’ll need as much of it to feel satisfied.
You can never get enough of what you don’t really need.
Sorry, I know this is a bit off topic, but I’d really appreciate some feedback.
I’ll try to make it as relevant as possible! Does the principle of no contact apply when you are in a new relationship with someone else? How much contact with your ex’s is appropriate then? How much contact with friends of the opposite sex is appropriate? And specifically, would you feel comfortable if your bf met up with other girls (including ex-girlfriends) one-on-one for coffee, dinner, etc?
Hi Laurie
I dont know about other people, and call me old fashioned but i dont think its right for men and women to meet up alone, friends or otherwise, i wouldnt feel comfortable if my fella was meeting up with other women one on one for coffee or anything else! and i wouldnt do it out of respect… other people may have different views but thats just my take on it, its not about trust its just not nice… hope that helps!
x
Laurie I guess I’m different but have always found it strange that two people of the opposite sex can’t be friends and go for coffee/dinner or whatever without the other’s GF/BF going off the deep end. I have a co-worker of 15yrs who was told by his GF of 2yrs he can’t speak to me unless its work related. HOW CHILDISH.
I told him I would respect her wishes since she’s the GF and good luck with that relationship. I predict her next target will be his guy friends.
The only time I’ve had a problem with this is if the guy is clearly a player and has some weird flirtatious relationship with tons of women in his life. If it’s a platonic friend who has always just been a friend and there’s nothing “off” about it, I don’t see the problem. With an ex it may bother me…..I suppose it would depend on how long they have been apart and what the dynamic is.
I have guy friends who have always been and will always just be friends, and we meet up for coffee or a bite to eat. Sometimes significant others come along, sometimes not.
Laurie
It’s up to you to decide what’s acceptable to you.
I sit somewhere between Groundhog and MaryC.
I think it’s fine to chat with work colleagues and even joke about in the office, in public. I’ve noticed it at work. One of the guys is always larking about with the girls en masse. But one-to-one he keeps it strictly professional. It’s okay to go out as a group. Mid-morning coffee is okay one-to-one. Dinner is where I start to feel uncomfortable – the wine, the dark, the candles, the oysters, the dessert sharing! When I had a married colleague that I got on with extremely well and found very attractive (okay, I was in love with him), we never spent any time alone together except on his last day at work when we went out to get cakes for the office. We just knew not do it.
So there is no absolute right or wrong. But it’s definitely too much if they’re going on holiday together and sharing a sleeping bag! And yes, I have heard of this scenario
Personally I would say ZERO contact. As a fallback I think 10/20/50/80% contact or whatever is still contact. I can only feel safe with 0% contact because that guarantees an outcome. Best to read NML’s blog post on the woman at the party draping herself over dot dot dot man as an example.
I also find contact with ex dates a bit off. Thoughts circle in your mind and you go through the what-ifs. So I cut them off for my own sake.
I think it is OK for a partner to meet up with friends/coffee etc; they’re their own person and I’d feel caged and controlled if I couldn’t have something as simple as a coffee or see friends.
On the other hand you do wonder if it is “just” coffee. Or is it a date…? So on this one I’m not sure.
” As a fallback I think 10/20/50/80% contact or whatever is still contact. I can only feel safe with 0% contact because that guarantees an outcome. ”
YUP! So well said. 0% contact is a guarantee of 0% hurt.
It depends on the intent.
I think it mostly has to do with the level of trust between the two of you. With the EUM guy, I didn’t trust him as far as I could spit! I suspect any women he met or already knew he was trying to get into the sack, and he confirmed those suspicions when he simply acknowledged that he was making clear attempts to date other women. !!
But I’ve been in relationships with guys who have had women friends (platonic) for years and I would never have insisted that they not see those women. Because those were important relationships for them.
Just like I have male platonic friends and I don’t want anybody I date having a meltdown because I stay in contact with them – whether that be phone calls, dinners, movies, whatever. I have to say with my platonic men friends, I rarely do the “coffee” thing because we always end up getting together in the evening. Mostly we do dinner, sometimes a movie and then get a drink after to talk, or go see a jazz show together. Whatever works for both of us.
The bottom line is you need your own life and so does your partner.
I dated a guy once who met a woman while rock-climbing (sorry, that’s just not a sport I’m into but he loved it). He met her AFTER we had been dating for many months. They ended up having a friendship doing rock-climbing things together, either the two of them alone or in rock-climbing groups. Why should I care? It’s not like I was going to join him for his rock-climbing stuff. But then again we had a deep level of trust, we both had agreed to monogamy and I trusted him. I met her on several occasions, she attended parties with us at my place, etc. It was a friendship that was important to him.
I think you would need to examine why it bothers you for your partner to have opposite-sex friendships and platonic relationships. You aren’t going to be everything to your partner, and they shouldn’t be everything to you.
Also, your partner should be introducing you to his friends, male AND female. That is one indication that you are important to him and if there is nothing going on, he shouldn’t be uncomfortable with you meeting them.
Laurie, since so much of it is situational as the other ladies have said, I’d say if something is making you uncomfortable it’s an issue. If it’s something that they are doing, as Nat says, you’ll have “external evidence” that something isn’t right. If something is making you insecure when there’s really nothing to worry about, there won’t be any external evidence. I loved this article and I think you’ll really find it helpful:
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/assessing-the-threat-level-working-out-whether-your-fears-are-genuine-or-misplaced/
Thanks ladies! Grace, I really appreciate what you said about it ultimately being my decision as to what I find acceptable. That was so empowering to me. I just need to find a guy who believes the same way I do—if they exist! I think I feel as you do, grace, about the amount of appropriate contact. Maybe I lean a bit towards Groundhog Day.
Of course I want my bf to have a life outside of me! And I want him to have friends (both male and female) and hobbies that he engages with regularly. I just really feel uncomfortable with my bf meeting up one-on-one with another girl—especially an ex. For me, it is primarily a matter of respect.
I’ve never really had this issue before my current ex. He had tons of female friends and exes that he met up with one-on-one. It made me uncomfortable. When I found out that he had lied to me repeatedly about using the online video subscription I had bought him to watch pornos ( He told me he would have to be some kind of asshole to use the gift I had given him in that way) I became VERY uncomfortable with these interactions. Of course, guys that watch porn don’t necessarily cheat on their girlfriends, but it made it very difficult for me to trust him after all the lies about it. At that point, the one-on-one interactions became a trust as well as a respect issue.
Sometimes I worry that my standards or values are unreasonable or unrealistic. Then I get involved with guys who I know don’t necessarily share my ideals, but I either try to compromise or get them to change. Obviously, that’s not working out so well for me! I just wanted to make sure that I’m not some nut with crazy expectations, but it seems like there are at least of couple of you who feel like I do. Hopefully that means there are guys out there who feel similarly.
Laurie, I don’t think you see something that’s a recurrent theme with you – micromanaging.
The truth is, how we feel about our partner meeting up with their ex says really more about us than it does about them, although it does say something about them too, even if it’s not what you intend.
The boyf met up with his ex a couple of months after we started going out. They were genuine friends and their relationship had been over for some time – he had no desire to go back. It’s not that I wasn’t like “Jaysus, he’s meeting up with his ex and what if he changes his mind” because it’s only human to have those thoughts. Briefly. Then I recognised that if someone is going to get back with their ex or communicate with them, they’ll do it no matter how much we try to block all avenues. We were having a great time – if she could swing him in the other direction over a meeting, then he was never truly in it in the first place. I recognised though that me laying down the law on him and putting my insecurities out there, would have far more impact than him meeting up with her. I had to trust that he was who he said he was and who I’d learned he was up until that point.
I have male friends and the boyf has female friends. We occasionally meet up with them individually and sometimes they come to things that we’re having like parties. The boyf occasionally speaks to another ex of Google Talk. They’ve known each other since they were children and in fact, she was The Woman Before Me. I couldn’t give a rats. She has her own husband and child now but I also know that if the boyf were around a woman that was trying to hit on him, he’d shut it down – not entertain it. Another friend of ours, her ex comes out to her birthday parties and sometimes she goes for a drink with him after work.
What are you trying to do? Own the man’s past.
Let me say it to you again Laurie – if these are your values, live by them but I would also prioritise. You cannot control everything. It’s only been a hot minute since you were talking about the last guy – how the hell have you found the time to start in on this new one?
What I do agree with though is what Grace and a few others said – when I was single, I was friends with quite a few guys, particularly through work and even though I was dumb enough to be with the guy who had the girlfriend, outside of that, I didn’t make a point of going out with married men on my own, especially if I picked up on The Vibe or if they wanted to Talk About Their Problems.
Hi Laurie,
I think the vibe you pick up on is the most important as the situations are so varied and the crucial thing is to listen to yourself, not other people.You will find as Natalie says that the mans behaviour to date will colour your gut reactions greatly.
When I met my last ex, within a month he lied to me and poured on the bullshit thickly to cover up. Then an issue of him meeting up with his ex surfaced. She was in a circle of his pub friends and a neighbour, they finished their relationship six months prior to us meeting. Their relationship was a secret. According to him she was crazy, boring and not capable of a real realtionship, told him she only wanted sex. She also complained that theirs was never a real relationship but the booty call. Confusing or what? After we met they, I quote; met for drinks at his house till 2.30 am, he walked her home and pushed her through her door -she got amorous and was drunk. I suspect if this was Natalie`s boyf, he would not be seeing this woman again. But my ex took her for an early breakfast on a Saturday morning.Huh? She would pop in at 10 pm to ask him out for a drink, only when I was not around. She knew when I would be visiting for the first time at his place, because he told her !!! and actually stood in her front garden watching me turn up- I wish I knew it was her! and was still there an hour an a half later watching us leave to go to dinner. She texted him to find out how our weekend went as soon as my car was gone. He took me everywhere BUT the pub where she was hanging out which was his home away from home. I told him this was not for me, it was making me feel insecure,my gut screaming to run. He was upset for me not trusting him in a very dramatic way – was ready to leave me because I had trust issues. Yes, I absolutely did have a problem with the two of them meeting up alone and if a man behaved that way again I would have trust issues again. Actually, I wouldn`t because I would opt out by the “lies and bullshit” stage.
Another scenario; Man I started to see told me he was in a middle of a divorce and he was going to see ex ( still wife) to talk. I was a bit uncomfortable but thought will wait and see. In a very short space of time he introduced us and I COULD SEE that there was no problem whatsoever. We continued meeting socially with herboyfriend and for work. Nice and normal and drama free.
When there is nothing to make you feel insecure you will not feel the need to ask anyone for an opinion. You will feel fine. Don`t worry that you will make a mistake, just trust yourself
…
Thanks, Natalie.
There isn’t a new guy–I was talking about my ex. I really only became uneasy about his relationships with other women when he lied to me about the porn. It destroyed my trust in him, and I tried to *control* him to ease my doubts. I realize how ridiculous that was now. I did try to micromanage him, and I don’t want to do that in future relationships.
I guess I’m feeling so incredibly hurt by his rejection, and I’m trying to come up with reasons why he wasn’t ‘The One’ to assuage my pain: volatile temper, telling lies, going out with other women, etc. In actuality, he was a good, but flawed man, and it hurts to think that I drove him away from me with my trust issues, trying to micromanage, etc. I know he really loved me, and it kills me to think I destroyed that. I want him back so much, and the only way I can stop this ache is trying to convince myself that he wasn’t that great after all.
Laurie, I would be careful of trying to micromanage the breakup… You, like a lot of people who have control issues, tend to be all or nothing. You’re either elevated or taking all the blame. You’re not the only person in the relationship, nor can you say with all of the various issues that were present that you are responsible for the breakup. That’s just too arrogant – at least dignify the man with the responsibility of his part in the relationship. He had no job, no money, a penchant for barefaced lies, a porn habit, a temper, went out with other women, and did a bait and switch on you after he was caught out on a lie and you called off the engagement. If he’d had no job and no money but didn’t do all the other stuff, this would be a very different conversation.
You keep making him The Man With No Responsibility…Even For The Problems In His Own Relationship
You don’t need to vilify the man – this isn’t about him being a good or bad person. I hate to break it to you – you are a person with flaws also. You don’t get to judge this guy – you just have to judge your situation respectfully and realistically. You are disrespecting this man and putting yourself on a pedestal *again* if you hog up the lions share of the blame and act like if only you had been the one to change your behaviour, he wouldn’t have done what he was already predisposed to do. Nobody held a gun to his head and made him lie. He also could have looked at porn and never had any issues with other women, or had a bad temper. The point is though, he did.
Laurie, a man with a volatile temper isn’t The One – not even close! You can’t push someone into acting like that. I also think it was really disrespectful that he knew you had a problem with him watching porn and used a subscription that you bought him to watch it. Personally, I could care less if someone I’m dating watches porn on their own time and even I think that’s rude. I think the bottom line here is that if you weren’t happy, he wasn’t The One. Hope this helps and you are feeling better soon! *Big Hugs*
My ex narc and father of my baby tried a bunch of things to gain access to me. They were all lame…none of it was anywhere CLOSE to making a real effort to get me back. He wrote me a poem…about how everything was my fault but he could forgive me if only I could forget the past, and let him fulfill his dream (to have two more babies). If I could just let him walk back into my life no questions asked after kicking me out with a 5 month old baby on top of two years of covert emotional abuse, then everything would be PEACHY. He asked me repeatedly to go for a walk. I went once…and he talked about himself…did not even ask me how I was doing even though he had shredded my soul just months before. He used to exaggerate the baby being sick…and ask me to go to the hospital with him…but when I said yes…he’d go without me. Then he’d forget the baby’s prescription. Most recently, he wanted to buy us a family gym membership. He has a new girlfriend…and so I could not comprehend why he wanted to do this. After trying to get at me by being all nicey nice, he is now trying the negative route. He harasses me non stop about our little girl…criticizes my parenting even though she is happy healthy and he sees her as much as he likes. I’ve avoided getting a legal agreement in place for a long time as it just seemed to be so FINAL…and I was still holding onto the dream of us being a happy family. Now I’ve finally set the process in motion…and I have stopped hoping for a miracle. I have to keep moving forward. I’ve been good with no contact (as good as I could be considering I have to see him daily since he sees the baby daily), but I’ve had a giant peephole in my door that I keep peering through at him. I’m getting a new door now – no windows and no peephole. Love you ladies, keep the faith!
Tasha-it’s so hard when you keep holding on to some fantasy that they will change….so it’s really great to hear you are in ACTION to set up some boundaries to protect and take care of YOURSELF! YAY!
This is the time of year that all the Bad Pennies come rolling out or maybe we go looking for them. There is nothing like a New Year to make some the worst people in your life wish they had you to kick around.
Beware! You will hear from them or worse yet…..you will check in with them to see if they are still the same person who gave you so much aggravation. Trust me they are and they are probably not alone. Most really Bad Boys cannot be alone….so expect to be replaced. However, since they will treat the next woman the same….you may be on the list of women to recycle when they find themselves alone. And don’t kid yourself…..they all have a list of women they consider back up ladies.
I am on someone’s back up list ….and the next time he calls or emails ……I will tell him that I am so happy in a relationship (with me) that I am no longer available. I will also suggest that he call the next woman on The List.
@ VF:
You hit the nail on the head! Good for you removing yourself from his back up list of women. You’ve made it, you’re well and truly free. It what we all strive for, the ability to remove ourselves from their list. Congrats!!!
VFL,
“I will tell him that I am so happy in a relationship (with me) that I am no longer available.”
How neat. I like that.
Thanks for this, Natalie — once again you remind us just when we need it. Since my ex “birthday texted me” a week or so ago, I can’t get him out of my head even though we’ve been NC since January. This was his first attempt to see if the “pass code still worked”. Thanks for setting me straight… he doesn’t want me… he just wants to win… he never cared before, “lazy communication” is NOT caring…. Drat. It’s just this is harder with the “holiday-itis” setting in — feeling sorry for myself for being alone, the cold weather, all the advertisements of happy couples and families — yikes!
Your post was what I needed to stay strong and carry on…
Emily, I just felt like I needed to reply to you cos I was like omg ME TOO. My birthday was in Oct and he facebooked me saying ”happy birthday I really miss you and im soo sorry for being such a bastard to you”…although my first instinct was to say I miss you too cos that is how I felt instead I wrote ”Bastard is a bit of an understatement…try evil c**t”. He did not respond to that and i felt like I was back at square 1 which is waiting for this AC to give me the attention Ive always wanted from him. My point is try to get him off your mind and although yes this is a hard time of year for the broken hearted try not to buy into all the hype if ur getting over something at xmas time or new year or easter or whatever it is your life and you take all the time you need to feel ok!
Emily,
I hear you….all the holiday crud. Hang in. If you take a look around you and listen, not all these couples/families are so very happy. I remind myself of that so I can keep some level of calmness about me.
Perfect timing on this post!! NC for 33 hours and this is just the boost I needed today! Always let than man weasel himself back in, but this time I’m throwing out the key, boarding up the windows, and sealing in the cracks around the door.
LOL, yes, the Shining poster was perfect. Now, in my case, I really truly don’t think he wants anything from ME in particular. I think he’s effed up, and whatever mood he’s in, that’s what I get. If he’s angry at himself and his life…he blames others…and i’m just in the way. REALLY in the way, bcuz i work at one of his haunts. It may well be that when he IS in a funk, he’s cheesed off that he can’t secure steady attention from me. I don’t think really he’s being tactical. That would require way too much emotional investment in ME or whatever I have. It became clear to me that I was just a convenient and timely and very brief interest that became uninteresting as soon as he hooked me. I would not flatter myself now to think he’s consciously trying to gain access to the other side of my “door” lol. BUT, it’s a possibility, I suppose. If he were any run of the mill EU i’d say yes. However, the other day he came in just furious, and tried to blast me over a product. I dodged him so he semi-blasted my coworker..but he lingered around till i came back to the counter and then said my name, but i ignored him and he immediately left. ANYWAYS, i’ll continue being professional in demeanor and he can eat it if it doesn’t suit him. I just wish i was immune to his horrible presence 🙂
but nat…you are usually spot-on i must say. so, it is very possible he actually wants to “win” meaning, he wants me to press the reset button as well and be narc. supply again to his oh so witty charming over-intellectualized monologues. oh well, too bad for him! he can huff and puff or smile and cajole, i’m a rock as far as he knows: i got NOTHIN for him.
I was NC, and was getting my power back and then slowly, once again … I opened my door for him.
Now I look like the “bad person” if I say I don’t want a relationship with him…which I don’t know if I want or don’t want! Once again I am stuck in indecision even though he made the decision for me when he broke up with me a few months ago…….
Australia you don’t look like a bad person NC is very hard and who cares what others might think its your life. All I can say is if you want to go NC then go NC but don’t use it as a game. He broke up with you so you should ask yourself if he’s worth going back to and is he worth losing the power you were getting back.
Australia, if you’re considering going back, remember, as Nat says, whatever was broken in the relationship needs to be fixed first. Has he told you why he ended the relationship, acknowledged that he hurt you and apologized/explained in a way that is satisfactory to you? Are you confident that the same thing won’t just happen again? What do YOU want–and if you’re not sure you want it, I think it’s fine to tell him that and the reason why. His response to that may help you make up your mind.
Australia
If you don’t know if you love someone, then I say that you don’t.
Cut him off.
flip-flapping = code red
How timely.
My ex and I have been broken up for a year. He’s a genuinely sweet man, treated me exceptionally well for the most part, but he is plagued by lots of personal issues and is a textbook EUM. I have no interest in getting back with him, and am seeing someone else now. However, for various reasons I have been admittedly erratic at maintaining complete NC. Once in a while the door creaks open a little, and then I slam it shut again.
Natalie is right about the various methods they try: e-mailing dumb jokes, “miss you” texts, woe-is-me/no-will-to-live messages, apologies, future faking missives, and so on. Mostly I ignore them, but he has quite the creative and resourceful little arsenal.
With the holidays approaching, he has suddenly found a new excuse for his boundary-busting overtures, showing up uninvited and unnannounced with Christmas gifts for my kids and — just last night — a pizza to “surprise” us for dinner. (None of us had any; he ate a slice in awkward silence, while standing up, and then I promptly showed him the door, after telling him in no uncertain terms that his behavoiur was intrusive, inappropriate, disrespectful of my boundaries, etc.). Cue the volley of “I’m hurt” and/or slightly nasty texts (which I ignored), followed by a second round of contrite, apologetic ones (also ignored).
For him, it’s all about regaining control, even when the attempts are camouflaged with nice gestures and expensive gifts. And my boundaries are still getting trampled on; I am the only one who can or will put a stop to it.
Really, it’s like these EUMs are all reading from the same How-To Manual!
How do you shut the door when you have a child and have to have contact?
violet
keep everything about the child. don’t let him in the house. he can stand in the hallway if he’s picking up the child and there’s hailstones outside. you don’t go inside his house. you exchange the child on the doorstep. no phone calls, emails or texts unless they are to arrange visitation or there is an emergency concerning the child. stick to the visitation plan to minimise any re-arrangements.
People manage to do this all the time, so can you. I think it gets easier with time.
And no sex.
I was the poster child for being The Fallback Girl. My ex only popped up when he was single and knew he could get an ego stroke/shag/sympathy from me. I did this for 13 years!!!! I went full NC 6 months back and although it was hard in the beginning it is the best thing i ever did. I took ownership for my weak behaviour at letting him in when he needed something. I never considered my own needs and constantly apologised for his vile behaviour toward me. He will pop up again at some point however i am now strong enough to keep that door closed for good. NC is the only way and i only wish i had access to this website all those years ago as it has been a godsend. Thank you Natalie
Hi I usually have the opposite result, exes never contact me at all. Probably just as well, as they usually try and use you for sex dont they? Someone told me it’s coz I never contact them and try and move on. But what am I supposed to do contact and be a doormat? Shouldn’t it be the dumper/ person that messed up to contact and work for our affections?
ok, me too!
but this time i think, phew! that is a good thing!
because if they did, i’d be in this emotional hellhole with them longer!
no thanks!
Hahahah
The only time the EUM contacted me was to return my stuff – a bag- , of course which I promptly dropped the phone call.
To they care? Hell no, they’re off busy shagging around.
Fedup, it’s a rarity that one hits me up. Then I’m not much of a talker anyway……
I’m not a big advocate of trying again with exes. The reason why it didn’t work out will still be there. Most people don’t change and most don’t put enough effort in.
PS…TOTAL COMPLETE NC is totally the way to heal.
In the year since we last spoke, my life expanded, new avenues opened up, this job for instance. I wouldn’t for a second give him, or someone like him, the time of day now. I wouldn’t ignore red flags like I did for him. Know why? CUZ I don’t NEED a man. I realized my self-worth. I came into my own. I was isolated single mom when he came into my life…now i work in one of the most social environments in my town. ALL the single dudes come in. I’ve made new friends. I’ve learned new skills (in and outside of work). Life has expanded.
THiS DOUCHE?!?! PUH LEEEZE!!
I highly recommend reading, devouring, learning from, putting into practise…Nat’s articles and advice. And THEN? MOVING. ON. No more obsessing. Just do it. You got the information, knowledge is power…ok. Done…get on with your life WITHOUT these douchebags. PROPS to NAT for SOMEHOW discovering this weird wild and rediculous breed of men (EU) and for helping us get out of the grip of their insanity and moving on with life!
Good one, Yosh! Great advice. This morning, I wrote a list of all of the things I did in 2011 – not just formal goals (health, career, creativity, contribution etc), but happy, unexpected and challenging experiences. There was so much there, it was great to see. I can say that there is no chance I would have lived all of this with the AC in my life. Apart from the fact that I was turning into an anxious wreck with him (there goes health!), I would have needed constant permission and approval – partly because of my own sh*t, sure, but also partly because the AC and the guys I have been with lately were so extremely critical of me (with the relationship having a surveillance element, especially when I was being happy or productive). Now I don’t need that approval, or at least not nearly as much (not even close). It’s good. Hoping an openness to love/a man will emerge. But can wait!
Another helpful reminder: a NORMAL person , who has every right to frequent the store i work in….would come in , get the product, pay, and leave. Politely.
Having taken responsibility for their actions: they would respect that this is my work environment. They wouldn’t act like nothing happened between us: they wouldn’t try to small talk, get angry over a product they hallucinated that i recommended, or make multiple visits in one day just to try to “chat”.
I can see now, after re-reading this article, that he is boundary-busting, once again. Absolutely no respect for my needing to move on, no desire to consider my feelings or boundaries, no thought whatsoEVER to ME. Period.
Thanks for the reply Nat, and for the article. Very appreciated.
Yoshizzle,
You could end his game by getting a restraining order taken against him – one where he would be legally unable to go to your workplace. Why put up with a fool like him? He has no right to bother you at all, and especially where you earn your living. I wouldn’t put up with it…. Hoping the very best for you!
Sometimes this can backfire- restraining order gives them an audience and a platform for drama. So it depends.
oh, he doesnt bother me that much. i feel anxiety/emotional upheaval when he comes in but it’s totally manageable and i’ll get over it, i suspect. I’m not afraid of him. He’s like that damn mosquito when you’re trying to get to sleep. Only with a little more emotional impact lol!.
And, hey, it’s interesting. I mean, at least! Observing this farce, observing my reaction to it, learning, growing from it.
And really he’s not trying to bother me too much; that would involve ME. It’s just about HIM. He’s doing what he does. I’m ok.
But it has given US so much food for thought!!
I needed to read this, as I’m in this situation with someone I met recently. For a number of reasons I didn’t feel like he wanted to get to know me as a person – I mean, how can you just meet someone and know nothing about their life because you don’t ask any ‘getting to know you’ questions, but you ask sexual ones?
I cut him off, and after he talked me round I decided to give him another chance, approach things with an open mind, see if there wasn’t just a different way of communicating I was missing. WRONG! Fast forward to a few days ago, when I spent some time with him and was proven right again – still no interest in my life and I have to explain to him why it was good manners to see someone to the door if they’ve been at your house.
Anyway, it just proves right my instincts (I won’t be testing them again), and what NML says – he doesn’t want me, he wants control, he wants to win. He has not shown any thought or consideration for my thoughts, feelings or boundaries. He won’t be happy about the door shutting, but the important thing is now I don’t have the lights on or twitch the curtains. Nobody’s at home, bruv! Give up.
Last week, after months of NC I received some dumb jokes such as “Why did the Maths book died? Because it had too many problems”.
So funny.
He’s so predictable. Next week he’s going to call again, then send some dumb jokes and so on…
I am so glad that I came across this article tonight. My EUM ex contacted me tonight just to say “hi” online. Truthfully, I was more then a little perplexed because: A.) I haven’t spoken to him in 2 years and we broke up over 4 years ago B.) That he could even see me online as I thought he deleted me from his list like I did years ago (not an online bf for clarification). The funny part about it is that I didn’t give him an entrance, I just said hi and didn’t ask him any questions. He did ask me if I remembered him and I didn’t answer at first and he said, “Damn. I didn’t think you would forget me!” Umm, okay. I didn’t forget him but I don’t want anything to do with him in any shape or form (mentally, memory wise, etc). The first thing that crossed my mind was that he is contacting me for an ego stroke or to brag about whatever! After a fewneutral answers by me, he suddenly had to go and that was it. LOL! I see he hasn’t changed and that he still so “important” in his own mind. This is a guy who is engaged to be married and lives a “perfect” life. I was again reminded tonight why I left him behind and it’s clear he hasn’t changed/ What a hoot!
Ironic – I got this a couple hours after my ex-whom I have had no contact with for months – sent me a text hoping all was well and wishing me a happy holiday. Thanks to the blog my door is still closed!
I think going NC means going NC because you genuinely do not want to be contacted. Reading BR and keeping one eye on the peep hole…’just in case’ is not going to work and is going to make your healing harder. When I found BR 6 months ago, I was adamant that this is what I wanted and needed, and yes the first 6 weeks were hard but I got stronger and I managed…Monday will be 6 months NC and for me that’s a huge achievement ( because I USED to be a classic text book Fall Back Girl). I decided enough is enough. In that time, I took an interior design course, joined a fabulous Zumba class and got a new job….life gets better when you truly take the focus and energy spent on them and turn it towards you…
I hope that in another 6 months, I won’t even need a calendar to mark off the NC days because to me that shows that I’m still half heartedly invested!
To ALL of you starting or progressing through NC, it does get better and it does get easier BUT…YOU have to want it to work and then it will, as for them trying to get a foot back in…believe me, when they keepa knockin and nobody is a home…they do get the message…eventually!!
I just have to laugh….the EU AC instruction book is apparently translated into every language….years ago before I had headr about BR or all this I had this puzzling French dude when I lived in France who I went on three or four dates with and dumped due to his AC behavior and every three months regular as clockwork he would send me some stupid text begging for attention via either trying to start a fight or acting woe is me…it was not until 2 YEARS later that he stopped…because i cancelled my phone and moved back to the US…at the time I thought that it was French thing now I know that it was an AC thing…probably some dude in the Amazon jungle now is making some poor woman crazy as she tries to do NC through a fragile hut door …at least we have expired cell phone contracts and locks lol!
DancingQueen wrote:
“probably some dude in the Amazon jungle now is making some poor woman crazy as she tries to do NC through a fragile hut door …at least we have expired cell phone contracts and locks lol!”
This literally made me laugh out loud and spit my coffee. So true — it’s such a universal phenomenon with so many men. And I didn’t realize it until I started reading and eventually found this site. At that time I thought my so-called “relationship” with the EUM was uniquely surreal, but now I know there legions of us. Strength in numbers, as they say.
What I ALSO learned, is that I am EU as well. That has been a lot more astonishing. And every time I read a comment to the effect that “EUMs never change”, I feel a little stab of recognition because I know that MY own EU issues are equally entrenched. It’s like being told by 4 different doctors that you have a terminal disease, you do the internet research and self-diagnose yourself into the same conclusion, and then are left with the question — “Now what?”.
Lots of work to do. Thank goodness I can do it in quiet, now that I am keeping the door is closed from EUMs persistent and predictable intrusions.
I only have one question though: I have been reading this blog and it has made the tough days SOOOOOOOO much better! But, why is it that after I ended it with my EUMAC because was pulling all the crap referred to here, ( future faking, resetting and even being out and out deceitful – yes, he was responding to Craigslist ads for casual encounters – ewwwww while I was working or whatnot ) HE gets the new girl, who is crazy for him, he gets the weekends with company, he isn’t unhappy yet I am alone, lonley and for the present, very unhappy? Why was my reward for having the courage and integrity to end a false relationship, the pain? I don’t understand that at all. Maybe someone could explain this to me? I am hurting and he is just as happy as can be – doesn’t seem too equitable to me. 🙁 Thanks for letting me express myself here – you all are wonderful!
Your “reward” is being away from him.
Of course he is going to have a new person in his life. That is what these guys do. Read Natalie’s posts on how the “new” girl doesn’t have it any better than you had it with him. If this doesn’t help you, think about the woman he dated PRIOR to seeing you. Don’t you think she was thinking “wow now he’s moved on and I’m alone! Why does he get it good?” Guaranteed there is another woman in his past life who was thinking the same things you are thinking.
I also think you’re exaggerating how “happy” he could be. You’re talking about somebody who doesn’t process emotions and caring feelings in any substantive way, if at all. They want their needs met ON THEIR TERMS. They can’t give back anything. To me that makes them pretty bereft emotionally, and I suspect it doesn’t make for a very happy existence. From experience I can tell you the EUM I was with was absolutely miserable. He was confused, insecure, unsophisticated in his feelings, and completely unsure of himself. All of which contributed to his being an EUM in the first place. He was incapable of emotional depth.
And, these guys don’t change. Do you honestly think he “undid” years and decades of psychological damage, narcissism, and attachment disorder just by hooking up with another girl?!
I think it’s good to be alone after a break-up. You have to process what happened, otherwise you will end up jumping into something just as bad, or worse, with the next person. Figure out the good and the bad from this relationship. Work on becoming a better partner for the next person and work on and decide that you will be more in tune with the red flags from the next guy so you don’t go as deep into it as you did with the last clown.
Also, enjoy being single. It’s not a curse.
Molly – well said. My ex moved in with someone a week after we broke up and they now both appear as happy as can be, while I’ve been left to do all the grieving on my own. It can feel very unfair.
However, you are right. A new woman isn’t going to miraculously solve all his deep-seated psychological problems that he has been carrying around since he was a child. It’s all romance, sunshine and lollipops at the moment, but given time the gloss will wear off and the same problems that led to our break up will most likely reappear in their relationship. Granted, I’m different from this woman, but his issues such as inability to communicate or deal with anything remotely stressful are big relationship red flags. I’ve also got to remind myself that I was unhappy in the relationship. Just because some other woman thinks he is the best thing since sliced bread, doesn’t mean he has suddenly transformed into Mr Wonderful. He is still the same guy that I was unhappy with and did not respect.
Also, a word on Facebook. I must keep reminding myself that just because they post about how wonderful their lives are, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true. I’ve got to stop looking at Facebook because it does hurt me when I do and I’m most likely breaking NC every time I do it – but it’s just too darn tempting.
@ FinallyCaughtOn
I hear you. From the outside it looks like he’s just skipped along his merry way, new girl, etc. etc., meanwhile you’re curled up on the couch with a box of tissues grieving, lonely and yes, angry. Sigh. Seems pretty damn unfair, yes. Your grief is only temporary, you will eventually process it and cycle through it. Here’s the thing, he’s not really happy. He’s happy in an unhealthy way if that makes any sense. This girl will eventually figure out too that he’s EU. The man has major issues and there really isn’t an endless pool of women out there that will put up with his crap, stay with him and tolerate him.
You weren’t getting what you needed and the relationship was emotionally unhealthy. You have made a self-loving decision that is so profoundly important to your present and your future. Like you said it takes a lot of courage to do what is good for you. Go through the short-term pain for the long term gain. Dumping him puts you on a much better path mentally and emotionally. Stay there, don’t look back. You will get through, you can do it.
Once you work through it, see it for what it is, you’ll be ELATED he is with her and not you. I once had a BF who broke up with me because I had a child and went straight to another woman. Days later I found out what all he had done to his previous exes (including urinating on their possessions when he was angry, running around on them, etc. oh he was a CAD). But of course, he was in LOVE with this woman and they were together ALWAYS and pics on FB and LOVE LOVE LOVE blah blah blah, etc… Hurtful, yes, but with time, I could see it for what it was. Not going into details, this woman lacked as much character and depth as he and the two deserved each other. And I’m sure they will have quite a charmed and well matched values (or lack thereof) life. And she and he both did me a GREAT favor. Give it time. We can grow from our most painful experiences.
@ Finally Caught On
A long time ago I used to feel like you did especially because I saw my ex-fiance moving on to a new girl, a new country, new everything -with a lot of happiness and success. While I was stuck miserable, alone, unhappy, and a total failure in my own mind. I gave up a good job opportunity, lost many of my friends, even didn’t travel to other countries when I had the chance, etc.
Sounds horrible, right? In truth it was, but it made me a better person and caused me to fight for the great life I have now. I have everything I want and he is still stuck in the same mode as he was from before. Sure, he might have some success and happiness but in the long run, it can’t compare with what I have.
Everything hurts now and you’re probably feeling like you’ve been punished and and your ex has been rewarded. Don’t think this. Get through your emotions as soon as possible and keep moving forward. If you look back or stay rooted, you will stagnate! Keep moving forward and it’s cliche to say: it does get better! 🙂
Bhoot,
That’s great to know that you created a great life for yourself – better than what you would ever had had with the ex. I like these good news stories! Just curious to know how long it took for you to completely heal from and get over the ex?
It has been three months post break up for me (together 3.5 years). I’m much better but still have not reached the apathy stage where I do not care one way or the other how his life is – whether it be great or awful. I’m craving apathy!
Finally
I don’t have a boyfriend or weekend with company and I’m happy. And just because someone has those things it doesn’t make them happy. The shine may very well wear off the new girlfriend once he reverts to form. I’ll go a step further, even if YOU had those things it wouldn’t make you happy until you’re happy in yourself. Yes, I know it’s a cliche. I used to roll my eyes when I heard it – it sounds so new-agey. Yet I found it to be true. The way out of the trauma is pretty much to believe the opposite of everything you used to believe.
When you are happy, you want others to be as happy as you are. When you’re not – you resent them for it. Why should they be happy when I’m smarter/prettier/kinder/suffer more/do more/sacrifice more/work harder? Comparing yourself with other people is absolutely invidious. Never mind what he’s doing, concentrate on yourself. It IS easier said that done, but it’s what we are all working towards here.
I’m with molly, happiness comes from TRULY giving, receiving and sharing. Not from these jacked up relationships, however good they may look from the outside. How happy can he really be? Not that it’s your problem anymore – yay.
I have played BOTH roles, the FBG and EUW, sometimes in the same relationship. Whatever it took to keep me single. And all the while, claiming to want to be coupled. I could sure see the role of the other person but was COMPLETELY blinded of my part.
[raises hand]. Me, too.
Actually, I will go one better: I was previously married for almost 20 years to a guy who was so quietly EU himself that I knew I would never be called upon by him to be emotionally intimate. From the outside, we looked like a healthy couple. And ironically, we actually made a great (EU) pair.
Now I’m dating, ostensibly looking for a real, healthy, relationship, but I keep choosing men who are guaranteed NOT to give me one.
Me too, I even had an ex EUM who, after years became my “Fallback Boy” :). I did it unintentionally; while I was trying to get over him, I started another relationship, an unhealthy one, of course.
I totally recognize myself in the posts about unavailable girls. Looking back, I can say that in all my relationships one of us (or both) was always unavailable. It seems that we attract the same situations until we learn our lesson.
What I can’t understand is why are there people who met their soul mate at 15 or 20 and are still together,married,happy, etc. Didn’t they have any lessons to learn? Why was I supposed to learn the hard way what true love is about, when others just met someone and are happy together?
I’m with you mirelle…
im not in a brilliant place at the moment and im attempting NC with an unavailable man but im really hurting at the moment, and im really bitter at the moment too that some people i know have been with their fella’s since they were 18 and don’t have a clue, why do i have to go through all this while they’ve been stable and happy since 18 with none of this to worry about?!
at least this website shows me its not just me, and im praying i can keep strong with my NC, i just need to keep rereading this article until i can recite it ha
xxx <3
Hello Groundhog Day,
NC is hard, especially at the beginning. It really gets better after a couple of months. You’ll feel stronger and you’ll congratulate yourself for doing so.
And yes, it’s a good idea to re-read this article in your weak moments. And re-read the posts of women here who broke contact, and felt humiliated again. The ACs just needed the assurance that they were not so bad, that they deserve a talk, and then disappeared again.
Don’t give him a super- power over you. He’s just a man.
Hugs
Great Post! I am one of those people who mistake ridiculously inappropriate behaviour for flattery. It’s a very definite pattern I see in all my relationships, stemming from a horrible abusive childhood ( My Mum for one busts any boundary she can see me trying to erect and used to do it when I was a kid too; let’s not even start on my 1st EUM lets’ call him Dad). So I know now, that I have boundary issues-no doubt. I won’t bore you with all the boring details (I save that for my therapist), but I will say, that I get it when it’s in books and in theory……but when it come to practically, I am still my old self….starry-eyed fall-back girl.
I go out and about in different places and still pick them up by the dozen (EUMs). And now that it’s December, a few of the exes are sniffing around again. So to read this post and to re-affirm my self, to remind myself to keep that door shut, that it’s not flattery, is an invaluable feat for me to achieve. Especially because I made the decision to stay away from family, they are way too toxic.
Rather than to sit around moping about my loneliness this holiday, I have decided to do different. I joined hiking club and we will be up Mt Kenya this Christmas, so basically for my exes, the door will be locked and Elvis will have left the building. And any other guy I come across who so much as nudges my boundaries-will get tossed-has gotten tossed.
I read in yesterday’s comments about fear of relationships and the feeling of burdening him with my super effed up past, and I really love Nat’s response when she said something like ” you can tell him about your past if he’s proven trustworthy over and over again” With my level of dysfunction I am frequently overwhelmed by a feeling of relationship incapacity too and it is how they get into my life again and again.
It’s me; not them.
No contact was definitely a struggle and is in itself a difficult thing to sustain especially in the beginning. It has however, proved to be one of the best things I could have done for myself. Knowing there were no answers to be sought in a person who is completely not self aware in any which way and plays the confused victim helped me greatly. I do admit that I kept his number on my phone for a little while after but recently deleted all his contact information. It definitely felt like a milestone moment given how torn up I was in the very beginning. To anyone who is currently going NC I just want to say hang in there! It gets better, and easier, I promise. 🙂
Nat! I am so glad you put this out there now. You’ve captured most if not all of the ploys that my ex AC has tried in the past – including, coming back around a certain time. (I personally think that it’s when he is so backed up sexually, he is in pain) And, come around he has of late with the usual stupid, lame hooks – catching me in the hall JUST to say “hello”, throwing pieces of paper at me at meetings, hanging outside my office door and loudly speaking soooo sweetly to the new girl … the list goes on.
I used to let it get me every time. But like you said, what I took for refreshed or renewed interest in me was just him wanting to win. He knows best. He knows how to get to me. (he thinks b/c he used to) Then there were the times I would actually feel SORRY for the dirtbag, b/c he knows how to play with my empathy.
Now, after years of letting him in, the door is sealed shut and he doesnt know how to handle it. It used to be the other way around – I didnt know how to handle it when I shut the door. I was the one freaking out on the other side. Now I find myself still sometimes leaning against it and listening, but finally, I walk away – with him still standing there! what a switch!
This week, we had a company meeting and I secured a seat in between two people before he came in. I could almost feel his eyes boring into me when he came in the door and throughout the meeting. He loudly told the new girl to sit next to him and when she asked if he bit, he flirted and looked at me. I wanted to puke – so obvious! But, hey for once it did not bother me at all. Afterwards at the Christmas dinner I once again situated myself where he could not sit at my table. Ha. He came in and sat in the seat directly behind me, and pushed it back so it was touching my chair.
But we all sat there for hours and I did not turn to chat with him. I enjoyed myself and I left there chatting with co-workers while he shuffled off alone. Once it would have made me feel sorry for him or guilty … this time, I felt odd and wondered what he must be thinking. This was not the way it was supposed to play out for him.
Anyway, I wanted to tell you that story Natalie b/c it is such a far cry from the stories I used to tell on here. I will always wish that things had been different but they are not and never will be. I’m embracing it.
Is there ever a possibility that they have really changed? If your door remains locked how would you find out?
hELEN, for some of these guys, change is not possible and keeping the door locked is for our safety.
hELEN
no.
and even if he does change he won’t want you anyway. when YOU change, you won’t want him either so it cuts both ways. when people change they want someone different.
I would never ever go back to one of my exes. Not because they’re awful necessarily (though some were) but because I’ve moved on. I don’t want that old baggage anymore. And I surely hope that they’ve moved on and wouldn’t want me either. It’s over. Let it be.
IF a man wants to change, he has to be pretty insightful and do LOTS of work. And the last person he will be attracted to is the woman in his past because he will know she is not available for a healthy relationship. The last thing YOU need to worry about, Helen, is whether these guys are going to change because when you are healthy and emotionally available, they will lose their appeal. Trust me. Worry about you!! Hugs!
There is a possibility that they change, but it is about the same possibility as winning lotto. When I do this I tell myself that if they REALLY REALLY were that interested (not just half-hearted and shagging around) none of this would have happened and they would be with me now, and make an effort to move, not be off somewhere else.
It was painful to know but then I figured I could be like this forever and ever AND even if they change and come back to you there is no guarantee that you’ll get them and it will be happily ever after- you might break up again anyway!
You also don’t have a claim on their better self just like they don’t have a claim on you. The other thing I realised was that I had to get over myself. If I wanted to find a round peg I could wait for the square one to change… or I could go to the store and buy a round one to start off with.
They also might lock the door too, so even if yours is locked, there is no guarantee that theirs will be open. Not all EU people bang down other’s doors.
I guesss I’m lucky because my x will probably not break NC.
Here’s the thing: He is a Sadistic Narcissistic Sexual Predator and he keeps a harem of women and at least one man (I believe) for his sex. He is an expert in lies and manipulations.
When I first met him he labeled women from his past as “crazy, and stalkers”. One time his phone rang and as he looked at caller ID, said “I don’t talk to you anymore”. So this is a man who also uses the silent treatment and No Contact when he coldly deletes people from his life – and he does it to intentionally hurt them – making room for new sexual victims who are unaware of his real motive or personal composition – which is evil (masked in the package of a very handsome sexy man).
He moved 10 houses down from me, A WEEK AFTER we broke up when I met one woman he was cheating on me with. There is one road on this penninsula. I am certain in his sick mind (Google Cognitive Distortion, because he actually believes his twisted thinking), in his sick mind he is most likely taking pleasure not talking to me – thinking I am in this house in misery. Which I’m NOT!!!! I just got back from working in the Netherlands, I have DATE tonight, I have out-of-town plans for Christmas, and I’m going to take a 4-day sunbreak in Arizona with girlfriends in mid-February – house with pool in backyard!
I’m 8 weeks of No Contact and my life is improving! I’m not in a NC tug of war with him, I am moving forward with my life and activities. I feel healthier and happier as this time goes on. Thanks Nat and everyone who posts! Happy Holidays ! ! !
Angel Face
I had to laugh when I read your comment! Because I think in a previous post I said I thought we dated the same guy. The guy that I am also 8 weeks into NC with done exactly the same thing. On our very first date which was at a expensive restaurant I might add, I asked him why he was single because he is very handsome/sexy, surely me must have met the right woman? He said I’ve met plenty of women most of which have been the right one, but it didn’t suit my lifestyle to be with them and some of them were crazy/stalkers (red flag). He also told me that he was seeing a woman shortly before me who was an attractive professional woman, one night she called him in the middle of the night crying/drunk asking why he didn’t want her and she wanted to come that night to see him. He turned her down flat and said its over and I don’t want to talk to you anymore! At the time I thought that’s weird/sad for her to behave like that. But what I should have thought/asked is what drove her to do that. He just deleted her like he has deleted me! He is used to having a harem of women (and at least one man I think) to satisfy his predatory sadistic needs. The rejection has hurt me a lot and crushed my self esteem because I know its easier for him to remain NC because he is so cold but deep down I also know he is just a narcissistic predator that dates available women and plays with their mind!
Nice to know you have a date, I’d love one of those! Lol
My ex is also very good at hitting the delete button. He can erase the past and the people in it with a flick of a switch. I’m the opposite. I find it very hard to let go.
Stephanie,
Do you live in Whatcom County? We might be dealing with the same guy. Hope you read my comment here – because it is a few days past the post.
If not same guy…. maybe same AssClown cookie cutter?… PS: I didn’t ever call him drunk and beg…. but I’m sure there have been a few women who did. He also works out-of-town…. Please reply, because I’m curious.
Haha love that Adam Sandler scene in Happy Gilmore “I wannnna kiss you all over …. TILL THE NIGHT CLOSES IN”…
What a vulgar tune.
Thank God for this post and for all of your responses. I finally started dating again last week. Baby steps, but I am meeting some great guys and it has felt good to get back out there. Of course, it’s like the exes know right when you start to feel good again and you’re actually moving on…My EUM ex emailed me today (have been NC for nearly 4 months, have ignored his prior texts, emails and phone calls) after not trying for about 3 months. He forwarded an email from last Spring which had a whole list of things we did together. We used to send this list back and forth to each other when we were apart. Manipulative much? Also quite dramatic. Anyway, his email today said some nonsense about how “we” both “crapped on the list” and how he is now “clear of the workaholic fog” he was in when we broke up. He also wants to talk face to face. Thanks to Natalie, and all of the fantastic advice on this blog, his email confirms several things for me: 1- he has not changed (still blames me/does not take responsibility for treating me like shit), 2- going NC was the best decision I could have made for msyelf, 3- responding in any way will set me back to square one. Instead, I am going to put on a new dress, make myself pretty, and have a great time at a holiday party tonight with friends who love and care about me. Good luck to the rest of you guys dealing with the inevitable December-induced contact from the exes.
Nat, Thanks for this posting. It really hit home with me today. Unfortunately, I fell off the wagon yesterday with the EUMM after making it almost 2 weeks NC. I had a moment of weakness and it was ME that initiated a text this time. Of course he immediately responded and the communication started right back up as if it had never stopped, as if I had never said I wanted to cut contact. Obviously, I need a chain in addition to several dead bolts that even I don’t have the key to for my perverbial “NC door”. In my head, I’m thinking how much easier it is to communicate and not have to struggle each day to keep the NC door closed, not send communication, or reply when I receive a text. During my almost 2 week period of NC, he had finally stopped trying to reach me because I wasn’t responding to his efforts. I guess that scary feeling of “oh, he’s forgotten about me now” crept into my head. I’m so tired of fighting NC during my waking hours and when I’m asleep he visits me in my dreams. I need some type of strength. I’m even praying that all feelings I have for him will go away, I’m writing on here, I’m volunteering and spending time with friends I haven’t seen in a long time. What else can I do?? This period of NC was the longest I had ever made it in 4 years of communicating and visiting him…and the most pain I have ever felt. There’s even a drug that’s available to addicts when they start their journey of detoxing, I wish there was something I could take to help facilitate my NC. My birthday is coming up this week and I know I’ll hear from him again this week. So tired (emotionally, mentally, physically) of trying to stay NC and do the right thing. I want my NC door to stay shut, but I also don’t want the urge to open it if that makes sense. Just seems I’m fighting to keep it closed while someone else tries to open it and I’m also fighting to keep myself from opening it. Sorry for the venting, but thanks to everyone for listening.
Complicated
I think you should stop calling it communicating. Call it what it is. Texting.
Two weeks is not long at all. I’ve had holidays longer than that.
What to do? Stop contacting him and ignore all his attempts to contact you.
Hi Complicated, you are recognizing you going down the path of no return every time you respond and open the door. As Natalie told me when I was in this phase, “you are in danger girl and it comes from within”. It’s up to you to stick to NC and bolt the door and seal it shut. He is married, still married, and will be married in the future. That’s pretty much it. Game over. He’s married. Next time he contacts you, tell him you’ll forward his message to you to his wife. Trust me, you won’t hear from him again! Door closed. Married men don’t want their mistress comunicating with their wife. Just too sloppy.
Happy Birthday. I wish there was a shot or a pill that would help or some words. There’s nothing, just our integrity. Imagine what it would feel like to be his wife when she knows he had a mistress. May I never be her.
Hi Runnergirl,
Thanks for the birthday wishes! Your comment about forwarding the texts to his wife made me realize something…all texts he has sent me since October (when he dished out compliments and asked me to sext and send dirty pics. ugh, think I just threw up a little) could be sent to his wife. There is nothing remotely personal or loving in any of them. Looking back on the texts, it sounds like he is talking to a sports buddy because as I’ve mentioned before, they’re all sports banter related. I’m not saying I’m forwarding these to his wife (definitely not gonna do that), what I’m saying is that I have received some really mixed messages over the course of 3 months. Texts that would be considered messages between two buddies to texts that would be sent between lovers. The messages sent back in October and those of previous months, are not the same as the past two months texts. The wife’s in enough pain I’m sure already being married and living with an EUM. He’s no different today than he was at the age of 19. I realized some people really do not change. He was cold and distant back then too, unable to get too close to anyone. And I deserve better. I’m reading Nat’s latest book and he fits almost EVERY single characteristic for a EUM! I know he’s not worth the effort (not to mention the time, money, mental energy, etc.) I’ve put into him, so I’ve been working on trying to change my thoughts when he comes to mind, which I’ll admit is alot. But, I’m taking it one day at a time and trying to put the focus back on me. And, I’m so glad I wasn’t the one who ended up marrying him all those years ago. Considering myself blessed today. Sorry for rambling, these random thoughts popped into my mind after reading your comments.
Hi Complicated,
You are sounding so much better and it is wonderful you are inviting friends over for a B-Day party. That isn’t cheesy. I think it is an important first step on the road to treating you with love and respect. I’ve been really making an effort to do something nice for me everyday and it feels odd but wonderfully different. I’m starting to see that if I treat myself with love and respect, I wouldn’t tolerate someone in my life who didn’t, particluarly a lying cheat.
It is also a big step to realize that the texts were merely buddy banter. I should have been clear that I was NOT suggesting that you actually send them to his wife. It is another big step to hear you empathsize what his wife must be going through being married to such a loser. She is a person with feelings, hopes, and aspirations and is his wife.
Natalie’s book is awesome. It was the best gift I ever recieved and I gave it to me. I was totally blown away by the dance of the FBG and the Mr. U. I ticked off all the boxes of the classic FBG and him the Mr. U. We danced so perfectly together, although I was stunned to read about my life in the pages of a book by a brilliant author who I’d never met. Keep reading and seeing your counselor. When you feel up to it, I’d highly recommend doing the UNSENT letters and the relationship crime scene(s). The written work really helped me work through some nasty daddy issues and how I’ve continually tried to right the wrongs of my childhood by getting involved with men who were daddy incarnates. The exMM and my father are so similar there was no way to avoid it.
You are blessed. We all are. We discovered Natalie and BR. When you block him, you’ll be taking action to match your words and sealing the cracks in the door. Happy B-Day.
i’d say you are giving WAY too much power to the idea of being with someone. It’s just a relationship. Life is full of different relationships. You could have a more satisfying relatinoship with a cat.
NC isn’t hard. It’s the easiest thing to do, actually. But it means you stop yourself when u start thinking about them. If you have to have a mourning/grieving period, do it..but you’re creating all this drama in your head. It doesn’t actually EXIST…unless YOU are thinking about it.
See it for what it is, and it loses it’s power over you. Its not a living, separate entity. It’s a series of events that happened, that led to repetitive thoughts, that trigger unpleasant emotions. good luck!
Yoshi,
I like what you said: you are giving way too much power to the idea of being with someone…it’s just a relationship. Its not a living, separate entity. It’s a series of events that happened, that led to repetitive thoughts, that trigger unpleasant emotions.
When someone breaks up with us (even though we know it’s the best thing for us) we tend to magnify the ex – make him larger than life and bestow upon him all these magical qualities and traits that he never had. We knew he wouldn’t make us happy in the long run, yet now that he doesn’t want us, he morphs into the man that holds the key to our lasting happiness.
But, he’s just a person. There are billions of us out there. We interacted with this one person and it led to a series of events that caused us emotional pain. Yet he is still just a person.
Let’s not put these guys on pedestals. We were never going to be happy with them in the long run. Be thankful the relationship ended so that we can find another person who will add to our lives for the better.
Complicated, I understand where you are coming from completely! You are not alone.
Keep that NC door shut, you know why? Because the longer you keep contact now, the harder it will be to break it again on your part. From the sounds of it, you are exhausted from all the energy spent on this guy. Trust me, I wish I had cut my ex off after I broke NC, but now its made its way back to the same old pattern …. you do not want to be there. Shut that door.
Hi Australia,
You’re right. I’m exhausted. I’ve spent WAY too much time, effort, everything on him. I recognize that I’ve been fighting myself to hold onto the “idea of him” I had…not the person he actually is. I just hate feeling like I’ve been rejected by him again. He obviously sees me as someone who can be easily discarded and someone with whom he can just disappear and reappear as he pleases. Just like it says in Nat’s book, I’ve been looking for the validation that he really did care and he was the good guy I thought he was. The more distance I have from him, the more I realize he really isn’t that great. He’s actually pretty rotten as shown in his behavior and actions. They certainly didn’t match his words. Good luck to you on your NC journey.
Complicated
I have found the single most effective thing I’ve done this time round was to block his texts and e-mails. I also told him I was doing this. That way you can find your feet in NC and get used to *you* not contacting *him* without worrying about finding the strength to ignore his attempts – because you simply won’t know about them.
And if he goes quiet and you feel hurt, you can just assume that it’s because he knows you aren’t receiving his messages. Nothing personal. It would take somebody pretty disillusioned to continue to fire off texts and e-mails into the void where no-one will ever read them.
And don’t forget – going quiet can be an attempt to get the door open too. If he knows your key is to allow you to feel he’s forgotten you, then that’s the one he’ll use. In fact this latest episode will have confirmed that to him, so he will doubtless try it again next time! Be aware of this. Sometimes with these guys it’s like playing chess – you’ve got to be one move ahead all the time!
Happy birthday for next week and let all the wisdom you find here on BR be the strength you need.
Thanks Blue Skies! After four years, he definitely knows that going quiet is a way to get me to open the door. Problem is, I’ve never really closed it…always left the door open with the proverbial crack. That’s one thing I’ve always hated about him, and told him so…the fact he can easily disconnect from me and forget about me until he’s ready to communicate again. Even as a young boy of 19 he could do this. When I asked him a few months ago how he did this (so I could learn to do the same), he said he didn’t know. I guess he’s always been the EUM and I’ve been the FBG. We played our parts well. Now I’m working on getting the door bolted shut and all the cracks sealed. Here’s to a birthday gift of peace of mind this year!
Complicated, let me say this again: it’s just a text. On lazy forms of reaching out to someone, on a scale of 1-10, 10 being effort and 1 being the least, it’s in minus territory.
Low level effort for high level mental anguish.
If you came here and said “I caved. I picked up the phone / I hopped on a plane and called him from outside his house and said ‘Be outside in 5 minutes or I’m gonna show up at your front door”, at least I’d know you were serious in this fantasy excursion.
And what I’m going to say next to you Complicated, I say to you and to anyone else on here who is going through this and I say it out of empathy, experience, and care:
Stop bullshitting yourself.
“I’m so tired of fighting NC during my waking hours and when I’m asleep he visits me in my dreams.”
Complicated, this is just texting, your imagination, your vagina, a few busted visits where he left you in a hotel room, and some overworked nostalgia based on a very ropey history.
Fighting NC? You’re not fighting NC Complicated – you’re fighting yourself. You are fighting a compulsion to text someone who wasn’t texting you because it bothers you that the married man who has been married the whole time and a ratbag to boot, isn’t texting you. It’s a text. People put more effort into ordering a pizza.
If he’s not shocked, he’s at least bemused that a grown woman could make so much out of some texts from a married man. I guarantee it. What type of impression do you think you’re giving this man? Respectable, cool, calm, collected woman who thinks too much of herself to be strung along anymore and knows she deserves better than a quick text or some text ping pong and some empty promises?
You’re fighting to close the door on a relationship that only exists for you. You are being incredibly lazy, as if you could invest yourself into a fantasy for four years and that it shouldn’t hurt or require some effort. You are better than this.
But I also think that you should get some professional support to help you through this time because if you’re asking for something to ‘take’ to help you through NC, the time has come for you to invest yourself in some physical help, as in a person you sit down with and have a level of accountability to, so that you don’t have too much virtual in your life.
Make this birthday count – give yourself the gift of freedom and a you that that is snatching back her self-respect.
Love that whole comment Nat there’s a great hard hitting lesson in there for all of us – and me too as much as anyone else!
Love this:
“It’s a text. People put more effort into ordering a pizza.”
Ain’t that one truth – and there’s no escaping it! I just know already that’s one of your magic phrases that will stick in my head for the rest of my life. Thank you! Sometimes you just sum it all up in a one sentence! And what strikes me too is that you say this kind of works both ways – so true! Cos that was exactly the amount of effort that *I* was prepared to put in to “communicate” with him when I was pining for some attention. If I’d been serious I’d have been doing something more than texting him!
Thanks for that. I’ll bear it all in mind!
Hi Nat,
“Low level effort for high level mental anguish.” Yep, that pretty much sums up the past 4 years for me. Oh, and the “.. fighting to close the door on a relationship that only existed for me”….so true. I’ve been the one who made all the effort, spent the money, and had all the feelings (or at least showed them). He’s not a complete monster so I figure he had some feelings for me, just not on the same level as mine were for him. I’m currently reading your newest FBG book and see myself in just about every sentence you wrote.
I hoped the more he saw me, the more he’d come to care for me and I’d receive the validation that he really did care, that the things he “texted” and did with me when we were together just weren’t to satisfy his own needs. No one wants to think of themselves as being used. However, I don’t believe he used me, I think he’s simply an EUM who is cowardly and who doesn’t even know what his feelings are. He’s actually said he didn’t know what his feelings were for me because he wasn’t good expressing his thoughts and feelings. Unfortunately, I chose to ignore the many “red flags” when I should have just believed him and moved on. Even at the age of 19 he was cold and distant at times when we were dating and I wanted to be the one to “change” him. Yuck. You’re right, I invested myself into a fantasy for 4 years and now I’m working to get myself out of it. Wish I had NEVER reunited with this EUMM and left him a thing of the past. My bad judgement has left me hurting and trying to find the good person again that I always believed I was.
I did start to see a counselor this week and it was if a curtain had been lifted. Being the child of alcoholic parents and learning to be second to their addiction, while always trying to receive validation I really was loved, has carried over into my adult life. Sadly, I always believed I would not be the product of my environment, but I could make myself into anything and anybody I wanted to be without the baggage of my past. I guess my baggage did travel with me. Looks like the addiction that has run in my family for several generations manifested itself in me in the form of being addicted to striving to get an EUMM’s validation versus an addiction that was satisfied from a bottle. I definitely felt the highs when I would receive a text and felt the lows when I didn’t. Hi, my name is Complicated and I’m addicted to relationship crack. Wow, all this after one session. Feeling hopeful today. I’m looking forward to working through this and becoming the best person I can be and thinking of myself as a good person again. I even planned myself a birthday party for the weekend and invited my friends. Kinda cheesy, but oh well. I thought it would be good to be surrounded by the people who truly care for me. I like the idea of giving myself freedom as a birthday present 🙂
Haaaaappppy Birthday Complicated! Yay you for throwing a party – it’s connecting you with *real* life and *real* connections. I’m so glad that you *finally* went to see the counselor and you highlight what can be the single most illuminating blessing from the car crash that is an affair:
They force the worst of the things that you’re fighting out of you – it ends up being like an exorcism if you’re prepared to face yourself, your feelings and the truth.
We have some similarities in our childhoods. I think that Florence’s and OW’s do have a particular thing about righting the wrongs of the past. Your relationship was like trying to right the wrongs of your parents and then right the wrongs of your original relationship with him. You don’t know any other way than to be second, which is it why it feels normal to make a big deal out of a text message.
But I am going to say this to you and it’s important in having an ongoing conversation with yourself so that you can be authentic and get into reality:
Your job is not to judge him as a ‘good’ or a ‘bad’ man, just like you wouldn’t want someone to deem you a ‘bad’ woman for being involved with another woman’s husband. Please stop making excuses for this man – 99% of people when asked if they have been using you will deny it, even when they have. It’s the same if you call someone a liar. He is married and he has been having a dalliance with you for four years, albeit a very imbalanced, one sided one. It is easy to write him off as being unaware of his feelings and yada, yada, yada – you say this because you’re really talking about *yourself*. You and him are not the same people. Yes you have been blindly pursuing an old pattern but even so, much of what you have been doing is *conscious* behaviour. It’s not about his intentions, which let’s be real, were never up to much – he is not a numpty without a clue and don’t think of him or treat him as such because you’re actually only patronising the man and reducing him to being like a child. There are ‘cold’ men out there that don’t screw around behind their wife’s back, string another woman along for four years, send inappropriate texts, or have them sitting in hotel rooms. Stop making excuses for this man – at least if you’re going to make an excuse, do it for *yourself*! “He’s actually said he didn’t know what his feelings were for me because he wasn’t good expressing his thoughts and feelings.” My arse he doesn’t! Funny how it doesn’t stop him articulating sexts…. Remember – I’m not asking you to villainise the man, but stop making excuses and making him out to be a cold man who is a victim of his inability to express his feelings. He *is* a user – he has got off on you losing the run of yourself for four years and he has exploited the past history between you both.
Hey Complicated,
I just wanted to give you feedback that you are sounding so much better today, more focused and really giving yourself a reality check..it’s great to see.
I’m the adult child of an alchoholic too and a Florence( I’ve attempted some huge and unfeasible renovation projects believe me!!) so your post reverberates.
Once you start putting yourself first then everything becomes easier. Just take it hour by hour…one of the best things is how your judgement alters and how you begin to trust the decisions you are making.What you want,need, your ambitions become validation enough. It is for me like completing’Growing Up,with better boundaries in place this time, boy! it is hard work though..
If you have been brought up in an alky family environment…it may be that you have been used to quelling feelings of anger, embarassment etc or that you behaved in certain ways to get parental support/love. You have made great progress in how you are beginning to link the family sources to your reactions to the MM. It’s brill to see that. Keep going. A Very Happy Birthday.
Hey Complicated,
I went through the same experience several times and it’s too easy to cave into temptation, old habits are hard to break. But you do have to believe that it will get easier and better with time, as many of us here have testified. It’s frightening to think of how SMSes can take on a life of their own and how dependent one can become on them- I used to be euphoric, my heart would leap for joy when I got a “I miss u” text, I crashed when I didn’t get a response right away, I cried over a text, I can’t believe a stupid text could trigger all kinds of emotions. It caused so much frustration, anxiety, depression, stress and that was undeniably, dangerous. It’s not easy for all these feelings to evaporate overnight when you’ve invested so much of yourself so please be patient and gentle with yourself..
Just a gentle suggestion, have you thought about changing your phone number? In that case, you won’t be waiting around for a text. You don’t want to be a MM’s part-time SMS lover/sports banterer forever, do you? What is it that is keeping you in this situation? Fear of him forgetting you?
Hi JadeSesame,
Thank you so much for your kind comments. They were very much appreciated. Sounds like you’ve experienced some of the same things as I have. I too have felt the “highs” when receiving a text and the “lows” when I didn’t. The fear of him forgetting me is one of the things that has kept me in this situation. It certainly wasn’t the effort he was making for me that kept me here. In my head, I thought, if he forgets me, I wasn’t good enough and nothing that has happened over the past four year ever mattered. The texts that ran my life. the anxiety, depression, emotional investments, and frustration I allowed myself to put into this situation would all be for nothing. I know that is stupid to think, but that’s exactly what’s been in my mind lately. And I realize now, they really were all for nothing because nothing can come from this. There will be no fairytale/hollywood ending here. And that’s ok. Still hurts like hell though. I’d rather have someone who is comfortable saying how they feel and makes just as much effort for me as I do for them. I read someone’s comments on one of Nat’s posts saying being with these EUM/MM is like a challenge that we don’t want to lose and I’d agree with that. Honestly, it does feel like I’m giving up or failing by doing NC because I didn’t “win” him. But, from what I read, it will be worth it in the long run when I’ve had some time and distance to see the situation and him for what it/he really is. I’m learning from the new FBG book that it’s not about me not being good enough, it’s about him being an EUMM. Yes, I had thought about changing my number, just haven’t brought myself to do it. I thought it would just be easier to block his number, which I’m doing.
I think my EUM AC has run out of keys, tried kicking, cajoling, and even pretended two weeks that he was “accidentally” texting someone who was in the hospital who has a similar last name as me. I didn’t bite this time, no response, I’m so proud of myself and I realize that all his attempts as just as Nat described, pathetic and laughable. I’ve fallen for all his tricks in the past to resume contact and all he wants from me is my attention and for me to go back to fawning all over him and thinking he’s wonderful, his Facebook page is full of harem members and that’s a club I’m not joining. As Nat would say, he can just “sod off” I’m done with him and I’m dating a nice man now and taking things slow. I even kicked a “fantasy” relationship with someone I’ve been holding a torch for for over 5 years, I got the nerve up to actually speak to him and ask him questions…during our conversation, he told me 3 times that he’s “not a nice guy”. Well, guess what, I’m going to choose to believe him and not feed his ego with my attention either. Thanks to BR it’s like I’ve been given some kind of magic bullshit decoder ring, why couldn’t I see these AC’s for what they are, we’ll I see them for EXACTLY what they are now, and I’m deciding to choose me and PASS on the liars, cheaters and pain junkies.
Trishamn,
One thing you said that reminded me of what Maya Angelou has said is “when someone tells you who they are, believe them.” So kudos to you for believing the guy the first time and not getting it in your head that you could change that fact. Be the exception.
If only I had “listened” when the MM showed me who he was over 4-years-ago when he was emailing me these wordy (some two pages long) and seductive emails, texting me, hanging out with me “after hours” and keeping it from his now wife (I wasn’t innocent either. I didn’t have the nerve to leave a man I was not really into). If I would have taken that as a red flag, gotten out of the relationship I was unhappy in and stayed single and not danced the dance, I would have saved myself a lot of heartache. Instead I took the bait this time when MM came around thinking….finally I have a chance with him….oh he’s back for me, oh he’s changed, oh it’s a sign, oh he’s in love with me too………and I’m slowly gathering (this part makes me cringe) since he claims his wife is gone a lot and “doesn’t know where the hell she is”, he decided to hit me up to pay that You Are A God attention to him like I used to. I was hung up on his words of “I appreciate you” and “You bring me smiles” and how he thought God must have been trying to tell him something that he still had my email address in his new phone and him telling me how good I was all the while reminding me he’s married and doesn’t want to lead me on. Not to mention inviting me to his house. Here I am thinking I have a shot in hell with him. But once I dropped the L word, he vanished. Or maybe it was when I was asking why he keeps me hanging and why he won’t call when he says he will. He has a similar passion that I do and it’s what partially kept me going for the ride and him too I imagine. That and I wanted a relationship with him so bad. And it doesn’t appear I’ll ever get one from him. He wanted to write to an attractive woman (me) so she’ll pay all kinds of attention to him and he’ll keep her in his back pocket when the wife’s not licking his arse.
But now I’ve talked myself into being pissed at him which is better than pining. I’ll finish my tea and movie now and go to bed.
Happy for you Trish
mine once told me, while drunk (not unusual) that he was “a bad man.”
can you IMAGINE what must go on behind that mask for him to think that about himself? good riddance.
Mine once wrote to me: “I don’t deserve you, and you don’t deserve what I do to you … yes, I may have made you happy sometimes, but invariably, in the end, I will just make you sad.”
Now there’s a startling piece of insight if ever I heard one. Was I listening? No.
Am I now? Hell yes.
Last December after discovering BR, I figured out that I didn’t need to be friends with exes. ExMM #1 emailed me last December about getting together and I stupidly responded because I thought I had to even though I didn’t want to see him. Fortunately, he went cold, I discovered BR, and we never met. Fast forward to last July, he drops another email about getting together to “catch up”. I responded with the next email, text, and/or phone call would be forwarded directly to his wife. Haven’t heard a thing from that one since.
Apparently, ex’es don’t want their wives or girlfriends to know when they are in contact with their FBG’s?
Cheers to the FBG door. It’s Assclownville season. Keep the door locked, bolted, sealed, and shut. If you are an OW, make them ring in the holidays with their wives. They are married and are still married and not to the OW. La, la la….
runnergirl…..your post made me laugh. Thanks for that 🙂
“If you are an OW, make them ring in the holidays with their wives. They are married and are still married and not to the OW. La, la la….”
I’m sure MM won’t be slinking in these parts this holiday not after what happened. In this brief moment (I must be on the upside of this for today. Oh, God make it last PLEASE!!!), I must say I feel good knowing I have not gone back groveling or begging or whining or acting whacky to the MM. That is embarrassing and demoralizing. If his wife knew what he’d been doing and saying to me in the last 4+ years, I’m sure she’d be one pissed woman. She’d probably try and whoop my arse and kill his. I’m sure he’d never hear the end of it, and oh how he hates when she bitches at him. In this little moment, I say let him bring in the Christmas cheer and the New Year with his dear wife. And make kissy face under the mistletoe. And hold her tight next to the Christmas tree all the while he’s said sweet nothings to me and flirted with having a full-on affair. If I get too lonely, I’ll take a walk around the Christmas decorated park near my home or whatever. I might even visit a nice bar (that is soooo far out of my comfort zone!!!) just to see if anyone hits on me and show myself that, yes, there are other men in the world that would want me. I don’t necessarily have to do anything with them. Hell, I might bake some bread. At least that way I’ll have a LOAF and not CRUMBS.
Hey Coloro,
Now you’re talking. You can make the upside last. Reading Nat’s book and the section on how much I gave to him in order to get him to give to me what I wanted really turned things around. If I gave to me 1/8th of what I gave to him, I wouldn’t have settled for him. I hope you went for a walk in the park and baked bread and ate the whole loaf. You made me laugh. The only way we are going to get the whole loaf is if we provide it for ourselves. I’m thinking we may not be so willing to settle for crumbs once we’ve tasted the whole loaf? Just be careful at a bar seeking external validation. You’ll probably find it. Oh Natalie, sounds like we need the Miss Independent Miss Self-Sufficient sequel!
The exMM used to hate when I wouldn’t respond to his stupid, lazy, sorry excuse for being a cheating liar, text messages while he was with his wife and family during the holidays. I still have to do a round in my backyard of kicking my arse for being a party to such sh*t. During the final suck it and see weekend in July, his wife put a tail on us, hacked his email, and cell. We weren’t in contact for several months so why she chose that weekend is still a mystery. According to his version, his wife would be filing for divorce in August when the last kid left home. Quite a discrepancy. Haven’t heard from him since and I haven’t contacted him. A comment on BR stuck with me: Do I want to be the one who wouldn’t go away or the one who got away. I do feel tremendously bad, sorry, and accountable for how his wife must feel after 27 years of marriage to find her husband was cheating on her. It just makes me shiver and my skin crawl to know I was that woman. NC is the only way out. No more holidays via text. They show up under the tree in person on Christmas or they get the door slamming them in the ass.
runnergirl,
“Do I want to be the one who wouldn’t go away or the one who got away”
THAT is powerful. About felt shivers go up my arms at that. Too many times I was the one that would not go away. My anxiety was steering my ship to try and PLEASE make the man stay. You know that anxiety, that OMG please don’t go. Nearing, or is, borderline personality disorder. Today my “upside” is a little lower but seeing your post brought me back up a bit. Seeing a new doctor today. I hope like heck she’s a good one. I’m on a new insurance and it has limited my access to doctors. I may look back into meds for anxiety/depression. I want out of this rut so bad. I’m so sick of feeling depressed every single day of my life and then it’s multiplied when I am going through this … stepping away from….the MM. On to living moment to moment…..
i’m on no contact again for the 3rd time. ignored his texts and emails over the thanksgiving (i’m in los angeles) holiday. 3 friggen times i was duped – all for a ghost relationship with a future faker, liar, malignant narcissist. i’m stronger now and i guess i needed these terrible lessons so i won’t repeat them. so much to say..i’m still angry, but i’m getting closer to apathy, i think….happy holidays to all you folks out there closing the door on your Prince Harming!
Just back from a party to celebrate the wedding a couple of weeks ago of a friend – who’s 39 – and her new man. She has two kids (so not exactly easy) from previous marriage. But, he’s lovely and they’re planning on extending the brood. She’d had a really unhappy time of it in first marriage – for various reasons, due to timing and compatibility (essentially, they were sh*thouse communicators together). She had to learn how to enforce boundaries as a co-parent, how to communicate with her ex in a new way, and open herself up again. And it’s turned out superbly well for all of the individuals involved. Happy news item!
Hi, first of all I’ve changed my name from my real name, Karen, to ‘lovingme’ cos that’s what I’m doing! This article is so spot on, as usual, my ex tried numerous different tactics to get my door open after more than 3 months no contact ~ I eventually opened that door, only to be taken to new heights of humiliation, he was not interested in getting back with me, stepping up to the mark and being the man he professed to be, he just wanted to be in control and I fell for it big time, I even ‘begged’ yes begged him not to leave me, how humiliating, only for him to let me find out he had moved on, got a new lady friend! I thought I was gonna die, the pain was so bad but you know what, all that time NC was not a waste because I haven’t gone back to step one and I’ve actually gone well beyond that, I’m MOT saying that every day is easy but I am saying that, that door is well and truly closed and I also think I’m passed the grieving stage now and ready to look at, why, when all the warning signs were there, glaring atxme from the very beginning, did I allow the faux relationship to continue and last over 5 years??? I’ve got my pen & paper out & I’m writing writing writing & I will make sense of this and I will never open that door, why would I even want to be friends with someone who I really don’t like, the person I was fooled/manipulated into falling in love with doesn’t even exist, evev his name is not his name and there are a load of lies around that but, this is not about him anymore, it’s about my part in it, my responsibility and what I do about that and one of the most liberating things I am experiencing right now is that fact that I am not even going to think about being in another relationship/meeting another man for the next two years ~ it’s very freeing, very liberating, slowly but surely I’m getting there ~ man, what am I gonna be like in two years time when I’ve achieved so much already ~ I’ll be fighting the men off with sticks ~ that AC was by no means my last chance saloon, he was what brought me to my knees and made me realise, beyond doubt that I didn’t love myself enough or look after myself well enough, so thank you AC for giving me this gift, but, by the way, the doors still locked hahahaha x
ha, someone just posted this on my FB:
Better to have loved and lost than to live with the psycho for the rest of your life.
Nice one Grace!
Men who do this stuff (and men of ALL ages do this stuff) are immature and limited. It takes a strong woman who loves herself FIRST to close the door and keep it closed. And that takes time and probably lots of exposure to men like this! But we learn from our mistakes–and it’s great to have this site where we can share our wisdom with each other. Your life is YOURS. I feel privileged and blessed every day to own my own life–and to keep anyone out who doesn’t deserve me.
You are so right! These guys are a dime a dozen, really. I had to date more than a few to finally “get it.”
I heard this song today and thought it was appropriate to share it in the spirit of NC and starting over. Alanis Morissette, Not As We
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2adOG7jc838&ob=av2e
Let’s not forget the backdoor; also close all windows and some exes even might take the Santa Claus approach – down the chimney!!!! On the flipside, we have to assure that we don’t feel imprisoned in our own homes and fall prey to our INNER Assclown. – But hearing doors being slammed shut – GREAT! If you let him walk in, in most cases he will walk all over you.
Reading it as a list “…sending you dumb jokes ….etc…” I thought hell, this could be a wonderful script for a one man theatre piece – imagine a stage with a closed door as sole prop that stays shut through the whole performance and an assclown pulling all stunts possible with all dramatic skill – from the viewpoint as onlooker the absurdity would become quite clear and in the end as reader Lo J wrote “The BIG BAD WOLF walks away with his tail between his legs … “. Curtain.
To be fair it should come in a male and female version.
Yes, women and men, not least because there was that US woman who, about a year ago, was so embittered by her AC-man that she ended up not taking his hints and breaking into his house via the chimney, the chimney in which she promptly got stuck and died. While I think he was almost certainly a piece of work, this was quite a desperate stunt.
I take this post on chin, went back…and regretted it. Had my life turned upside down again…same deal, same promises and same ultimate cowardice… On my side still willingness to sign up for the false deal to assuage reality which was tough at that time. It’s a hard pill to swallow.
My weakness is still with me day by day. Today I am angry at myself, have come through denial, anger at him,depression and feel enraged by myself as I sit and write this today… Why did I take the double standard, why did I even momentarily doubt my logic,belief system, intelligence…. I have to believe that this is the route to being healthier?
I post on here and give advice,ask for empathy,share experience but a lot of sadness at the place I find myself today remains. My only suffrage or solace at the moment is that to get it out there means something…and to still hope for a reasonable life or even a happy life and that means something. It means a lot actually.
Lynda, I don’t know what your situation is exactly, but I want to give you a big hug and say that from all the pain, comes a giant lesson. Going through emotional hell, and to come out alive gives us strength. Why we do some of the things we do? Why we give some people chances despite what we know? We are human and we want to love.
You will go on to a live a VERY HAPPY life, not just one that is ‘reasonable’. Don’t knock yourself down when the future is unwritten. Hold your head high.
Lynda from L,
I hear you and you have my empathy. Every time I broke NC in the beginning mostly via phone, email, and text, it was simply more of the same. He was only offering “fish”. I wanted more than “fish”. Every time I broke NC to see if he was going to offer more than “fish” and found that was all he was ever going to offer, I got angry too. Angry at him, angry at me, angry at the whole world. At some point (maybe now), I just had to accept that he wasn’t ever going to give me what I wanted/needed. Maybe I’ve just now started to see that I can give me what I want. I wanted him to fill my void. I assigned him the responsibility for my well-being and I demanded that he do so. NC has allowed me to see that the only one responsible for my well-being is me. No wonder he shirked that responsibility. It wasn’t his responsibility in the first place. It was mine. I shirked it by being with him.
It may sound totally whacky but there is hope. It is within you.
LFL, I think forgiving oneself is the hardest part of all this – this is where we falter and feel bad, because I don’t think we really know how to do it: how to conclude resentment at ourselves for causing ourselves harm? I don’t know the answer. But it is part of a process. Once you feel more confident – through other experiences, you start to see yourself in a gentler light, as someone, as you said of yourself, in a situation where a relationship, of almost any sort, seemed like the best way through. Plus, until you experience this, it really is hard to imagine being fooled like this. Yes, we contributed to our own demise, but, we were often also lied to, seriously manipulated, treated without care, and, in some cases, downright abused. Add to this the fact that when you’re stressed and anxious, it’s very hard to hear our instincts, let alone act on them. I just don’t see anything so terrible in someone wanting a relationship (love, affection, support), especially in a context in which you also want to hand over responsibility for your life, have a break from reality, be able to give up control for a while. Sure, it ends in doom, but it’s pretty easy to see how it happens. Try to smile at yourself that you’re so sweet and open to life that you’re liable to be fooled every now and then. You want to preserve some of this, this vulnerability.
Lynda, your story could be my story…
I too am so angry. At myself, at him. The relationship so changed my life and my family’s. I am angry that I allowed him to lie and manipulate me, and just disappear time and time again, while I’d be sent reeling. I told myself he was screwing with my mind, but his jekyl hyde behavior would fool me, he was so smooth. A great lover, a caretaker, the life of the party. And I loved him. Sometimes I think I still do.
He is a text -book AC/EUM- I never thought he’d be like that. He warned me not to fall in love, but he was the first to tell me he loved me. And I made excuses for his behavior, I helped deposit myself here. That I am sad about. And just recently he “apologized”- meant to free himself from guilt I’m sure, so he can go on with his merry life, unscathed. There was little about me or us in the so-called apology, just a made up Bogart-Bacall fantasy to make me believe it just wasn’t meant to be. He admits no responsibility for the hell he’s put me through, despite my being a willing victim. When I told him it didn’t have much to do with us, he just said I don’t know him as well as I think I do… He definitely isn’t the man I fell in love with for sure!
“Why did I take the double standard, why did I even momentarily doubt my logic, belief system, intelligence…” your words, Lynda. And mine! How can intelligent women get hoodwinked by these ACs? I am left to pick up the pieces, and while I know I can and will, the depression and sadness compounded by the holidays has me feeling as if it’s killed me. I wish I could give you a hug, and you, me. I could use it.
Thanks, Nat
Australia. Runner, Elle Tess. Thankyou.
I had a bad day yesterday, came on again and saw such words of support that have gone straight to my heart.
Truly he cannot touch me now, I have stayed true to my course for a while now with regard to what I need and want and his didn’t come close..although for a while he said and pretended it did.
I do wonder if before acceptance comes this getting tough with yourself bit, because I literally am looking at all parts of my life these days and shouting ‘L what were you thinking??’ I need to woman up and move on.
Australia/ I believe this too,like steel actually, there is tempering going on when you come out of the other side, you are stronger.
Runner/ I love your posts…yes every time I got less. Stated clearly what I was after, was denigrated. This is the crux of my pain. At myself, that I let it happen and for someone who had clearly being doing it for a while, interchangeably, with other women.
Elle, wise woman. Yep I need to forgive myself and be gentler. I am pretty sweet in my way…I laughed at that when I read it.
I was seriously manipulated, then history was rewritten at the stroke of his pen. I get that now. It’s his loss. Above all, and you have saved me here… I do want to preserve some of my vulnerablity. He isn’t going to have all of that!
Tess, yes,yes…he engaged my family. My elderly relatives came to stay in his house, I met his kids,wanted him to see more of my adult son. It was superficial, designed to show him in a good light. Goalposts shifted weekly and it was always my fault…
I am pretty good today and I hope we all continue to get better, reflect and soar. Thankyou and thanks to Nat x
Hello Lynda, I just realised I read your comment when I was half asleep last night and I remember wondering if you were saying you’d reached out to your ex.
Let me say this to you – you were having a bad day or a bad few days and that is perfectly OK and *natural*. Sometimes you have to tip back a little to yank yourself forward. It’s part of the grieving process. Busting your proverbial balls doesn’t help you. If I languished on all of my mistakes and relationship pain, I wouldn’t be where I am. It’s not that I’ve pressed the Reset Button – it’s just that I’ve accepted that I did the best I could do under the circumstances with what little tools and reference to relationships I had at the time. Bearing in mind your own childhood, you have to teach yourself the things that your parents failed to do. Yeah it’d be nice if they’d stepped up – but they didn’t. You are now and as a result, you must be *patient* with yourself.
You also need to remember that you suffered hurt and a loss – with that comes a myriad of emotions. You’re not made of stone and truth be told, your ex was a twerp who messed with your head. Ultimately Elle is right – it’s his loss.
Thanks Natalie, love that analogy about tipping to yank myself forward. Yes, have been really hard on myself for a week or two, when that florence turns in, she turns in!
I’m free of him,safe,safe safe but not the feelings yet and I know I’ve got to take that gently..thanks for the reminder of my early stuff too. It’s always good to see things in panoramic vision but you’re right, I need to view things a bit at a time..be patient.
No contact really WORKS. It is difficult – VERY DIFFICULT – but I’ve challenged myself to commit to it and I’m taking it a day at a time. I never thought I could be this strong and escape the drama, excitement, disappointments and hurt I’ve allowed to absorb my life on a daily basis for the past 6 months. I have only been doing this for 2 weeks and it has already made a massive improvement to my sanity and self esteem. I still miss him and get a thrill when he tries to get my attention but I have no intention of giving up now – that door is shut and it’s staying shut.
I never even knew that the “No Contact” idea existed. Never really needed to, until now. And I so get it and why I need to do it; I have signed the contract. Thanks Natalie. Truly.
This weekend was hard, 3 weeks in. It was not hard to not make contact, it makes me sick to see at him (and he lives around the corner and we live in a small town)…moreso just coping with “me” and my own resurfacing emotions of stunned disbelief, sadness, hurt ND anger at all the lies he told me. And that i was reeled in, simply taking those words at face value as being truth with no clue that he was lying. And, I think, what set me off this weekend, to be truthful, the incredibly hurt of being rejected. Not being told anything or having any explanation, just rejected…for the second time in a year. Sheesh. (Imagine me hitting my forehead 😉
But I came back here to read….then went and put up my Christmas Tree with thoughtfulness and gratitude, beautifully decorated my “closed and locked!!!” (brilliant to insert the Jack Nicholson photo, Natalie) front door, put on my running shoes and headed out for a head clearing run by the ocean.
While you all may not know it, you all helped me so much today. Thank you.
“It’s the same when you have an ex that attempts to get their foot through your proverbial door by any means necessary…sending you dumb jokes, weather and sports commentary, asking if you’re friends yet, provoking you with information about them with a new person, sending nasty messages, sending apologetic messages, turning up, moaning to your friends, pitching themselves to your family, slagging you off knowing full well that you’ll hear it back and may confront them, making up lies, claiming that they’re ill, claiming that they’re dying, claiming someone else has died, claiming that they don’t think they can live anymore, saying that they have to get something from your place even though there’s nothing there, reneging on agreements to pay you back, claiming that they’ll leave their wife/husband/partner, claiming that they’re almost ready to leave, and the list goes on.”
LOL I used to wonder why things like that happen. I spent a lot, and I mean A LOT of time pissed off about someone dragging out paying me back money. He agreed to return it to me, but then gave me an indefinite date for as to when it would actually be returned. So I would call “just to check up on him”, when really I was trying to stay on his good side so I could have my money back. It never worked because at the end of the day as long as he had that over me I would continue to call him and be on my best behavior for him. But the littlest things would set him off and he would give me the silent treatment until I came crawling back and apologizing for him being angry. But it didn’t matter, it didn’t matter what I said, he was in control of the situation and I was succumbing to his will. I underestimated him and ended up wasting a lot of time thinking that I could control the uncontrollable…Fast forward to now, the money has yet to be returned (big surprise there right?), the only difference is that I don’t feel like I have to have it anymore. Ah the freedom, it feels great!
I started no contact 2years ago now, n to be quite honest I cnt cope. I feel so shit. N his just getting on with his life with the mother of his child nt a care in the world. I went thru so much with him and for him that I feel like I have been left with nothing and no one. Only this mornin I broke NC , n it ending it me flippin out and hurtin n him not caring. I feel like I need to hear why I was treated the way I was and he doesn’t answer me. I wish I wish I wish I never went through this . I have had panic attacks, thought of endin my life, written diaries. Nothing works. I dnt know what to do. I feel like I’m losin my mind.
I’m grateful for this site n I check back regularly and have read every post about 50 times lol.
I’m not strong enough to be without him and I’m not strong enough to be ‘the other woman’
That’s called a ‘quagmire’ Franny or in layman’s terms, painting yourself into a corner and acting like you have no options. https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/are-you-painting-yourself-into-a-corner-when-your-beliefs-remove-your-options/
I should add that being the Other Woman is just ‘alone’ by another name. Or ‘without them’ in another name. He’s just not *that* special. I don’t know how old you are, but you managed to eat, breathe and live for however many years before he came along – don’t give him anymore ass credit than he’s due.
Hi, Franny
You are not MEAN enough to be an OW with no remorse. A “professional” OW with no character, no conscience and no remorse wouldn’t lose her time on thinking about her deeds.She would be proud to be an OW.
The OW thing is not for women with a good heart. Good women become OW accidentally and this destroys their self esteem, feel guilty, ashamed, hopeless and helpless. It’s against their whole being, against their life principles and their values. They’re unlucky women, like you, or I, or other OW here who happened to meet a manipulative AC, in a weak moment of their life.
That’s why you feel like this right now. Because you have a good heart, not because you’re weak. Focus on that.
When I was with the ex MM, I met an old friend for a drink and told him about the relationship. He was very angry with me. “How could you do this to yourself??? I have known you for 15 years, you were such a lovely child, you are not like this. You’ll be sorry for doing this to yourself”.
And he was right. Now I’m sorry that I put myself in such a humiliating position for a woman. I’m sorry that I killed that lovely child.
You are right. And I am a good person. My heart is pure and I am ashamed of what I have become. Part of my problem is because I am a good person and I believed he also is a good person. He took my NC as a sign to make things work with her and I think part of me expected him to turn round and fix things with me.
I know I shudnt be feeling like this. I see people who have gone through it and come out happy and a better, stronger person all within months. I’m jus sick of this feeling n on top of that I really miss him. I spent everyday of 3yrs with him n now it looks like I’m gna spend everyday of the next 3yrs mourning, hurting and regretting.
Thank you Natalie, Ive read all ur posts over n over. im 24 ( i shudnt b feeling like this right?). I just feel like i should be over all this by now ( when we was together i had an abortion, i also regret this but i dnt kno if i regret it for the wrong reasons). Sometimes i feel like i shud jus go back and settle …. how messed up is that.
Hi Franny, you can’t hurry up getting over pain and a loss. If you were supposed to be over it now, you would be. What slows the process of course is if you’re invested in something that keeps you in denial which will also keep you in grief. It’s bad enough to go through an abortion which can really be quite distressing emotionally, without also being in a *secret* relationship. It’s isolating and distorting.
24 or 84, you shouldn’t be feeling like this or in a relationship like this at *any* age.
I’m sure you do regret it but it’s probably tangled up with regretting being involved with this clown in the first place. You can’t do much with regret beyond applying it to your future so you can learn your lessons. Remaining with this man will not make it worth while – it’s like trying to get a return on a bad investment. Let this difficult experience shine a light on the fact that you need to flush his arse pronto. Don’t let this man use you up for another moment. I know it feels like a lot to lose, but really, getting pregnant and going through the abortion must be the wake up call to ditch him.
Oh and you can’t settle for an attached man – there’s nothing to settle for as he belongs to someone else. It’s like settling for air, toxic air at that.
Im so grateful for this. i havent been able to talk to no one, n he hasnt been interested in hearing my feelings since i stopped being whatever i was to him. i should add we were best friends for yrs b4 i became the other woman for 3 years. i never saw this coming.
Going through it was emotionally distressing , i took comfort in the fact he said we will have a family in the future. And i expected him to see that as sign things need change but 2months later his gf had an abortion too.
i thought i was a strong an intelligent person but how could i still love and want this man. i ask myself will i ever get past it, past him. i feel i hurt less when i was with him but i do kno i shud never go back there. n i refuse to go back to bein his friend.
“They don’t want you, they just want to win.”
This is something we should all remember! I think this feeling comes into play very often in the process of breaking up. I have been on both sides of it. Granted its not always a conscious thing, but more often it is more than likely an unconscious motivation. The desires to have closure, or an explanation, or one last time together, or to know why xy and z is (fill in the blank), etc, I think are highly motivated by wanting to win. At some point you realize or at least have flashes of clear thinking where you realize you don’t really want the other person. It’s the pursuit and the victory that begins to motivate. The good times and the good qualities are far away from your mind; you just want to win.
Great insight! Thank you!
yeah Michelle, been there.. I see this now as trying to’make sense of the illogical’ last piece of puzzle stuff and thinking back I think he was motivated by the desire to score points too..
He had a girlfriend(one before me actually)who after much long suffering.. I know that now…had actually just got up and left. Completely incommunicado. It rocked him, more the idea of how anyone could do that to him. Despite the fact he had been emotionally unavailable to her for nearly two years. I wondered if she had got baggage reclaim?!
My regret is that I didn’t take a leaf out of her book sooner because I went for a month or two and then came back for a further six months or so. Although I am well clear now, I couldn’t break as cleanly and in my opinion, with these guys, it is the only way. I wasted 17 months playing a game that had no outcome, it was never in the rules from the outset. I now think that he didn’t want me per se, he wanted to win.
“I wasted 17 months playing a game that had no outcome, it was never in the rules from the outset.” omg Lynda, that really hit me. I totally feel for you, where you’re at. I’ve been reading this post and all the comments, spending time trying to compose something on this whole topic — but as usual, NML has already come up with another important thing to think about (holiday crack post), so I think I missed the boat :). your one line really says it all for me, actually. I stuck to NC for 6 months, broke it in July, since then it’s been what NML called “low level contact, high level feelings territory.” so, I wouldn’t say I’m back to Square One exactly, for me in this situation it’s better that I had the chance to leave it behind having achieved a bit more peace w/this man. thankfully there is BR, so I have a better framework for the real moving on. for the last 4 months, I guess he was trying to prove to himself that he wasn’t a total bastard, so we were talking. I thought that was positive and healing, considering how much I love him. but he wasn’t inching back towards “Us”, as he made clear in our last convo — though he was sending mixed messages, doing all the initiating, sending dvd’s he made for me. the reality is 2+ years later he’s still Separated Man W/Kids, not Divorced Man Ready For Real Relationship. he gave me a totally inaccurate picture at the outset about what was going to happen — never told me when he moved out that he planned to continue long-term seeing the kids at the house, not bringing them into his new space and creating a new life. I’m sure the ex is happy, b/c that leaves the door open to reunite, which I’m sure she wants. what woman could tolerate that? absolutely ALL of the heartache and pain could have been prevented by me uttering a few simple words, “Call me when you’re free and clear”. the year of the blissful obstacle course to True Love wasn’t worth what I’ve endured since. It still hurts like hell. if I’d ignored him since July, would I have been further along the road to being 100% over him? I don’t know. this has gotten into my DNA like no other breakup I’ve ever gone through. it doesn’t make sense to me. but — there it is. and here I am, on Baggage Reclaim, back to the NC drawing board…
Hey Anoosh, yeah, I remember your posts about this guy before…it’s totally ‘cake and eat it’ mind games he’s playing. I get what you are saying about the’totally inaccurate picture at the outset too’ and how that is just so painful when you have to unravel what is actually being presented.
What’s helping me just now is confirming to myself that I was manipulated…he didn’t just infer a future, he invented it. I actually, a few weeks before I went no contact, stated what I wanted, quite clearly and specifically and he swerved. It was like I was looking at a different relationship.
Strangely that helped. Has been the wake-up call I needed. I wrote down and still refer to it now when weakening…just what was actually on the table for him. Basically, company(when he wanted it),sex,humour,backrubs,someone to accompagny him when he saw fit…etc. No shared life in reality at all. Yet, he had kept on dangling the life, moving in together,our future, sharing ups and downs..actually planning it. If it got close…he found something wanting in me. This usually ended in hours of verbal abuse. It was very important that he saw himself as a good person,dad,general gentleman… I wondered if your guy was signing up to same crock of sh*t? My guy was significantly verbally toxic, not a gentleman at all. There were cycles of warmth and then awful behaviour.
NC for me Anoosh, is the only way to go. I get what you say about an ‘obstacle course’ but I just think why put myself through that again. The pain of the continual carrot dangling is severe?
You would have been further along the road believe me. I still get texts and e mails from him but I ignore them, they are about his need to absolve himself and nothing to do with me. These guys are in it for themselves and their own outcomes. I get the DNA, I get it Anoosh but I just think we have to alter our DNA on this one for survival. Thinking of you tonight.
Lynda ~ & I’m thinking of you today. Read a lot of your post today (and all the great replies) and sit with a blank face with tears in my eyes and just nod yes. I know. Me too. It’s all that “seeing themselves as a good person” bs that helped me put him on a pedestal. One where as Nat says, he was always looking down at me. So with all my intellect, I still had the minimal relationship tools to understand that two good people do not always equal a healthy relationship. I pulled every fuzzy math calculation I could, but was still trying to get 2 + 2 to equal 5 (square pegs, round holes.) Frustration, humiliation and I pray realization are all I have to face. I’ve already been the “good girl”. Enough. Good man or not, he wasn’t to me. Actually punished me for trying to get close to him. Sounds like what you went through. And I rationalized, minimalized, excused….even when he would say “I’m sorry I’m so mean…” I would “Oh, you’re not mean, its okay….” UGH! Makes me sick. How can you know one thing and behave anything but what you know like that. It does catch up to you. So yea. My door is FINALLY shut too. So virtual hug from me too. See you on the Christmas post.
thanks Lynda from L, means a lot :). you’re right, my DNA needs to change! I’m so tired of listening to myself, sounding like a broken record. I guess we all have different versions with these EUMs, with the same outcome (none). mine was never anything but a prince for the whole first part, totally swept me off my feet. we were friends in college (20+ yrs ago), and to me he was still that same sweet lovely guy. he hooked me in with the story of how his marriage was long over, since his wife had an affair for years, he was trapped there for the kids & house. I was clear I wouldn’t get involved unless he was at least divorcing and got legally separated– so he did! that just took my breath away. yes, he totally “invented” a future with me, moved mountains to convince me that was the road we were on. I swear to you, never in my life have I felt so adored, loved, appreciated, etc. that’s what is so hard– I still miss him so much :(. I thought those “obstacles” were just situational, I just needed to be patient, because here was The One, that *intuition* that all these other friends of mine who are happy long-term said they knew right away they had with their “One”. he was so caring, nurturing, sweet. until the moment he pulled the rug, and I don’t know where that One disappeared to. the last few months of contact, he was being more of his old self, but always stopping short of any actual romantic talk. anyway, none of this matters, not all the effort to get over it, the NC, the last year & half of praying for a “miracle”, nor my recent slip in revealing my feelings. he was clear that “you’re there, I’m here (yadda yadda)”, he’s unavailable, and he doesn’t want me to think our talking is leading to more, and he “doesn’t want to hurt me again.” I wish I could say I was wise enough after how much time I’ve put in on myself, BR, etc, not to have allowed any glimmer of hope deep down. I wish I could say I was like all these people I see who go through serious breakups, brush themselves off after a few months and go out and find new Loves. I used to be more like that. but this just crushed my soul so badly for whatever reason, it still makes me so sad. until 35 or so, I believed there were plenty of fish in the sea– no longer. or, at least, whatever my great qualities are, they sure as hell aren’t attracting any anymore. yah, NC, sigh…
You know, when I look at my son’s father, I sometimes get rocked with this whole ‘I don’t even know you!’ weirdness. I don’t think it’s him that I’m hung up about – in fact I’ve got no doubt that if he’d been into me then I’d’ve dropped him… nicely, and certainly more nicely than he dropped me myriad times, but I would’ve.
It’s all been about chasing the power, fretting over losing the power and trying to get the power back. And failing because, ultimately, I had more of a conscience and I was more bothered than he was.
Not a nice thing to realise. But comforting to realise that he’s just Some Dude With Power and not the Lost Love Of My Life…
@ Agirl I know. Thanks so much for that. We should perhaps have been suspicious of a guy who has to tell us how good and decent they are repeatedly, methinks?
I get you completely when you say’the looking down’bit, I realise now that he did that..despite any attributes or professionalism I may have had,he found me wanting. I’ve said before on site AGIK, that if I’d jumped through a hoop, the next one would have been higher,set on fire, whilst juggling, etc.
I am a stone’s throw from realisation, simply do not want to analyse it anymore. Was on last night and got Nat’s old post about how if they start to rewrite the history of the relationship…Let them. She had written about having to pretend she was still engaged at party!!That helped a lot, I just have to live with the fact that he lies about what really happened to justify his self construct.
I have to go beyond that and let him fill his boots.
Yeah, also with you on…’He punished me for getting close to him’ towards the latter descent of it all, I was keeping diary and had BR. I began to see that a wkend of closeness and promises and great times would be swiftly followed by withdrawal, moroseness or fault finding. I also knew by that time that I was working my arse off to make it work.. I will not, like you, detract from how hard I tried. I got lost in the maze of future faking and wanting to be his exception. God, he’s treated women badly.
Hey, I’ve had relationships before that ended well for sensible reasons, even my marriage ended because of accepted incompatibility, as adults. This was different. Excrutiating hurt. I hurt and need to recover.
He was a malicious bastard. He had history of being so.
I am actually quite a fan of self preservation(LOL)so it is time for me to fully bail, emotionally as well as it’s less arduous sister physically. If I have anything left it is a sense of loss for him, because although successful in career he was a piece of swiss cheese. He ate too much, drank too much,wanted sex as a’soma’pill,ate up culture,told himself he was living the good life, will distract himself forever, He said goodbye to’Authentic’ a long time ago…perhaps never knew it. This sounds harsh as a recovering Florence, but, not my worry. I do not say that lightly and I bet you don’t too?
By the way, you are great, your post moved me on, I read it again and again…
It can seem like the hardest thing in the world to ignore him, but it DOES get easier. I slammed the door shut on my AC, after which he came by my house once and sent some lame texts afterwards. I kept ignoring, even though it was really hard. I have finally forgotten about him after five months (I know, too long, but I am a fantasizer) and nothing he can do or say would make me want to give it another “shot.” He is done. Time has cleared my head and made me see him for what he is… a big-time loser.
“Heeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre’s Johnny!” So appropriate in this article. LOL!
I am now on my 19th day of NC with the man with whom I broke it once and lived to regret it. I am having an excruciatingly hard time with it. Thanks to everyone’s support here, I could make it past the guilty feelings I had about having sent a nasty email, and yada yada yada. I think the moment required such a reaction, he acted in complete disregard of my feelings (not the first time) and so I called him one single name. Whatever.
But I miss him. I have not broken contact and neither has he, so I guess my comment is a little off-topic (he’s not knocking at my door – did it once and I caved, but that was in the past). But I need to get this off my chest. And you all have been such a source of strength so far for me.
In a total reversal of things, I feel rejected now because I found out he deleted me from Messenger (I had him blocked, and you could say – as I repeat to myself time and time again – why bother if you were never going to contact him again anyway???), but somehow that got to me big time. It may be the approaching holidays, it may be that yesterday was our “one-year anniversary” (which I had never thought I would spend like this: doing NC of all things), a moment of weakness… I don’t know.
I try to listen to all the corageous women commenting here, that it gets better with time. That’s all I’ve got right now, because no matter what I do (and I try to follow every advice I have read on how to deal when you get the urge to make contact or feel sad and lonely and depressed: I take long walks, take care of my little garden, call up a friend/relative, have people over to my house, whatever): I feel lonely without him, I second-guess my decision, I feel so weak!!
In any case, maybe it’s the first stages of grief. I know so much: I will not make contact. I will have to go through it, there is no going around it. But it hurts so so so much.
Thank you ladies and thank you Nat. You all are a source of strength for me right now. I am sending you all my hugs.
Excellent piece of writing which makes perfect sense. I’ve done the nc rule. It was very hard at first but 2 months on I finally have control of my life, freedom and lots of space in my mind to think of positive things. Thank you for your words they have been a great support to me and I know feel I have direction in my life again and my experience hasn’t scared me from future relationships.
I was contacted last week by my ex and it really made me laugh out loud. He wanted to know if I was dating anyone. I replied ‘yes and it’s going really well” I happened to mention that my new guy was in the armed services and all of a sudden my ex was questioining me about how old this new guys was, what unit was he on, where did he serve and I just said…”hey, that’s part of my new life and I don’t really want to share that with you”//he then said..”Does your new guy know who I am..that’s not fair!” (what an asshole!!) I said “yes he does we may meet at reunions and its important for someone I am involved with seriously now to have some idea of my life” …….So then my ex said “I don’t want you meddling in my life!!! wtf or messing with my train track!!”
So its funny that my getting my life back and basically being happy is all about him and the fact that I date someone who has been in the armed services like ex had been, somehow contravenes some sort of dating rule and I am supposed to disclosethe name of my new guy is to my ex. WtF
Look ass clown the door is closed. I am not obliged to tell you zip!
It made me laugh though!! What the hell was that conversation really about?
this Nat is exactly what i am experiencing at the moment! The switches between downright nasty and most awaful behavior and something nice are extreme. Mine is trying to kick as much money as he can out of me for the house we both own and next he is sending a present with a card. How f’d up is this, i still cant get my head round that. It makes me quite scared what these types are capable of….. Do they get violant at some point of NC?
Hi Miu,
Remember if the door is firmly shut…these guys will try and get in the window…or down the effin chimney! By that I mean they will alter their type of verbals,sometimes cajoling, then back to insults again,an apology and then possibly threats. They are basically using all weapons in their arsenal. My ex was very verbally abusive and the switch was quickly flicked… if there is even a suggestion of violence or regular threats seek support and report threats. I agree the switch can be very frightening and can be a sign of deeper issues with anger.
OMG read this minutes after checking my inbox…things have been silent for a while with my EU/MM/AC. Then another message trying to lure me in. I think he misses all the special holiday time attention he got from me.
After reading it part of me wanted to ask “What the hell are you doing? Who’s more important me or your wife?” but mercifully I didn’t. I haven’t responsed at all.
Yet, I feel the way Natalie mentioned. That there was something about it that made me feel like less of a person–that he would think I was that stupid/desperate/idiotic/needy enough to want to hear from him even after specifically saying that I don’t.
Its been a year since the big break-up and months since the last time I responsed to him. When I am tempted to contact him I play out a conversation in my head…
No, we are not friends (Im not friends with liars)
No, I dont want you (I want someone who only wants me)
No, I dont love you (See above)
It may sound silly, but it helps –it puts him and who he is right back in focus.
After the holidays I am thinking about reentering the dating world.
I finally am beginning to think I am ready
ChiTownKitty
I am so scared. Been no contact for the past 6 months but now its a close friend of mine’s wedding and I know the AC will be there.
I don’t want the awkwardness and I don’t want him to think we are friends, but I cant not go. I could avoid him for most of the wedding but the guest list is not big enough to avoid him completely.
at most I will have to engage in a group convo. No one on one conversations if I can help it.
help!
Jane, don’t be scared! Keep in mind that he’s nothing special…just a regular old dime-a-dozen assclown. I know the run-up to the run-in is nerve-wracking, but try to focus on the fact that it’s a wedding and it could be a great time! What’s the worst that could happen? You have to say hello to him and then you excuse yourself and join another conversation. Not so bad, right? I think if you tell yourself you’re going to have a great time, you’ll be much more apt to 🙂 Enjoy the cake!
I FINALLY got this today! I FINALLY got it! Woohoo!
I was talking to my counsellor (now that I’ve got off my arse and started trying to sort it out instead of just being miserable over it all the time) and she said something like “You need to set boundaries so that he can’t just dib in and out of your life emotionally when he feels like it”. And I went “Duh! I know!” and then thought “but hang on… if I know this then WHY do I let him do it?”
The thing is that even though he now has a girlfriend and doesn’t tap me up for sex or ego-strokes in the way that he used to, he still periodically unloads his worries about parenthood/our son/his guilt over treating me badly when I was pregnant. I fall over myself to reassure/advise/soothe him and then, once he feels okay, I get dropped back on my arse.
I’ve been feeling for a long time as though I have some sort of responsibility to do this for our son’s sake – even though it makes me feel like a) a muggins and b) chopped liver. But now I realise… why? Although ideally it’d be lovely for our son to have parents who have a MUTUALLY supportive relationship, it’s really better for him to have a mother who isn’t stuck in some sort of internal groundhog day and is actually moving on with her life.
Besides which, he has plenty of support – far more than me – and he’s an adult. And he SHOULD feel bad about the way that he treated me, it was horrid. I’ve no need or desire to be babying him through the situation. End of. And the best thing is that I don’t need to do anything! I just have to be disinterested! Which I already am!
Hurrayhurrayhurray. I’m sure that this high will be short-lived but I think that I’ve finally twigged on and put a padlock on the cat-flap.
Congratulations, Yoghurt! So glad to see you thinking/talking about it this way! I recommend printing out what you wrote and hanging it somewhere where you will read it regularly so that you will remember this realization and enjoy the feeling of not being hooked in anymore!
I have come to realise recently that if someone genuinely cared for you if you asked them to leave you alone they might be upset – but they would respect your wishes. Any other behaviour is simply self centred and based on, as the blog suggests, control or sometimes self esteem – believing that they are entitled to your flattering attention. Caring means listening and trying to understand and respectfully sharing your own opinion – not trying to convince or cajol or manipulate…
It’s been 6 days NC with the MM since we’re on a “break.” I don’t know how much longer I can keep it up; I’m crying every day, I can’t eat and I get nothing done at work (we’re coworkers).
When does it get easier? When does this empty feeling finally start to fade? I don’t know how much more of these feelings I can stand but I’m not in a place to reject him if he comes back.
Bri
Get a new job, seriously.
Bri, take a deep breath and remember you deserve so much better than this. NC is hard its damn hard but sooo worth the effort. Just take it one day at a time. There were days when for me it was hour by hour. Don’t look at it as a punishment, its a gift you give yourself. You won’t be ready for a good relationship if you’re still hanging on to a bad one. Big ((HUG)) to you.
Hi Bri,
I’m so sorry you are still in that miserable, painful place. I re-read Nat’s post several times to find just the right words but then I realized you probably read it too. So, I’ll just say that I remember being in that miserable, painful place until I couldn’t stand it anymore and had to do something other than cry. At some point, I had to choose me before I knew what that meant. I hope you get to the point soon where you recognize that it’s up to you what happens to you.
Your boomerang situation reminds me so much of my former flipp-flapping situation with the exMM and made me realize more deeply how intensely selfish, cowardly, and cruel this type of man is.
I think I just now realized that he couldn’t love me and treat me like he did. Wishing you the strength to stay NC and the ability to choose you. He hasn’t.
Bri
I get that this is painful for you but you’re going from:”It’s been 6 days NC with the MM since we’re on a “break” to “When does this empty feeling finally start to fade?”
Seriously, it’s been *six* days! I hate to break it to you but it’s not going to “finally” fade after six days; it’ll take longer than that, and longer if you work together and it’s not going to fade until you get serious about your predicament and get serious about getting out of it. Grace is not being flippant when she says get a new job! This is not a game, it’s your life, and you only get the one shot at it.
You need to undertsand that NC is for you to focus on *you* (you sense of self worth, your health and wellbeing, both emotionally and physically) not on him, but you are not on NC as far as I can tell – what has happened is that he has told you he is taking a break from the affair (over Christmas hols, as has been said). All that is certain is that he’ll be back when he feels like it, so if you are so desperate for his crumbs and to continue being his bit on the side then you can always just sit back, put your feet up and relax – in the full knowledge that he’ll show up with more of the same for you eventually – sometime in January when the hols are over.
fearless
Yep, the last time I witnessed an affair in the office, the girl got fired. Of course. It’s never the bloke!
And, yes, it’s true that for as long as you’re willing they will always be back.
So Bri, turn down the drama meter, he’s not gone yet (though it would be better if he DID go!)
Grace, I saw that happen at my old job!
Bri, I agree and think you should get a new job. If you’re going to get over this guy, it’s going to be much easier to do without him staring you in the face all day. I once dated a cowoker (unmarried, but still an asshole) that was a real jerk to me and I decided the best thing for me was to start over elsewhere. It makes me sad that you’re making yourself sick over this guy – I can guarantee you he’s not worth it! Hope you are feeling better soon.
This saddens me as it reminds me of… me!
It does eventually get better – theres nothing more i can say than what everyone else has said, just thought id send you a *big hug*
x
Groundhogday ,
i feel the same there is nothing i can said but learn from this site to do better and become better. to me he don;t love me he just want to have control of me Evil , evil.
Bri,
The feelings start to fade the longer you keep NC. If you continue to go back, you will never find happiness and self-esteem.
Your choice
Bri, What happens when you lose your job b/c you can’t focus due to this relationship? Truly…what is it worth to you? How far do you have to go down before you start taking care of yourself? Grace is right: get a new job and start fresh somewhere else. You are unable to think clearly at this juncture and this place of employment and, as Nat has said to others: you are in danger. Read Complicated and Lavendar and other femme’s comments about their grief with MM’s. It is a no win situation and even if you eventually had him as your own in a marriage of your own how could you trust him? Would you track him with gps, put a private detective on him? Install cameras in your residence and other places? Truly…what are you doing all of this for? He’s untrustworthy and not worth the risk and pain… and he’s a sh$t to his wife…do you really want to be in her shoes? You are not in NC. You are in denial.
It’s like I agree with what everyone is saying and I’d say it to my own friend if she were in my shoes, but there’s still something pulling me to him. My therapist says it’s just playing out old childhood rejections and that I’m not in love with him, I’m co-dependent on him. It isn’t like I haven’t been through this before – we’ve broken up twice aside from this current “temporary break” and I felt just as miserable those times.
You’re right – I’m not doing NC for me, I’m doing it because he told me that if we do, it’ll help him “bounce back” from the mood he’s been in lately and “get us back to a good place.” I’m just so desperate – not eating, not sleeping, constantly crying, making myself sick. I know so many of you have been here before and I’ve yet to read one success story (success meaning he left and you lived happily ever after); the only success I see is women who have moved on from these relationships and become enlightened because of it. I just can’t seem to let go of the hope and the fantasy, even after two years.
Bri, co-dependence is an addiction to unhealthy relationships wherein the Other is seen as more valuable than ourselves. We only exist in relationship to this other person, who we try to win over, control, and use to validate ourselves, to take us out of our own feelings of low self worth. Read everything you can about co-dependency; I have, as the feelings you recount are ones I can absolutely relate to. I have backslided on my own progress; self-sabotage is one aspect of co-dependency. Recovery is a process and sometimes it is so painful to unearth these patterns and hurts from the past that we revert to the pattern, to the pain we at least *know.* NC can work, absolutely, as we have heard from many people on this blog. Not as an excuse, but NC is challenging for the co-dependent, as it can bring up deep-rooted abandonment issues from childhood. The resulting panic we feel in finally ending such a relationship can send us back to the source of pain because we feel so out of control. We feel so miserable partly because we are so detached from our own lives; we are not invested enough in us, always looking to the other for our sense of self. I wish you all the best, Bri. I know this is not easy and the holidays make it worse. Still, take some steps to do stuff for you, be good to you, put the focus on you, be with you, make some plans for your life in 2012. I found this link the other day; it might be helpful as it also touches on some things Natalie has written here about our own EU issues:
Hey Bri,
It seems like you have moments of clarity when he has dumped you to play the role of family man. Looks like you are dumped again. So sorry. I remember being dumped around this time too. It’s just so very sad to know that you’ll go on ice while he celebrates the holidays with his wife and family, again. I did it too for two years. Being on ice was very cold and lonely for me. He’ll bounce back and get back to his good place once the holidays are over. So as all you have to do is cry for the next 2-3 weeks and once he is done doing the hubby thing, you’ll be back on. I so lived this bleak, sad, sorry senario. I’m sorry you are still stuck. Last December and over the past year, I cried a river of tears as I let go of the fantasy. I’m wishing you the best. It truly sucks, I know. Grief sucks. Don’t fight it. Grieve the loss of the fantasy. I had to do it and the world hasn’t ended, although I was certain it would.
And Leisha’s comments about trust are spot on. We would like to think the wife isn’t meeting his needs but that isn’t always the case. What if you were the wife and he cheated on you, even though you did everything to meet his needs? I would need a GPS tracking device, a tail, and constant access to his cell/email=NO TRUST. No go.
Your situation makes me remember all the pain. I miss the guy I imagined too. He was never there. Shoot. Don’t wait. You can turn it around if you commit to NC for you. It’ll take way more than 5 or 6 days, more like 5 or 6 months. And every time you engage, it starts all over again.
runnergirl
Yep, I think it’s total BS we tell ourselves that the wife isn’t meeting his needs, to justify our behaviour.It’s also projection – because WE wouldn’t cheat unless we were being msitreated or unhappy, we think he wouldn’t either.
I read an article written by an EUM (though he didn’t see himself that way) who had two girlfriends. At least in this instance the women knew about the existence of the other. He was happy enough with both of them. When he was woman A he didn’t think about woman B. When he was with woman B he didn’t think about Woman A. In his mind, he was being fair to both of them since he treated them both well. Neither of them made him unhappy. Both of them were meeting his needs. He just didn’t want to be monogamous! In the end, he did pick one of them after some years. Don’t know how that turned out. it’s degrading and humiliating to compete with another woman for a man. I wouldn’t be able to forgive myself for having so little self-respect. And it’s not much of a story for the grandkids.
And if she’s NOT meeting his needs, why not say something, or get divorced? What about HER need to know that her husband is screwing another person and lying to her, spending their joint income, taking time away from the family? And what if his “need” is to have two women on the go? One for home and one for fun? What does the wife do then?
Karma is a bitch. When I was with the playa, believe me, his needs were well and truly met. His friends thought he had hit the jackpot. Was he still interested in other women? You bet. I found out for myself what it’s like to be with someone who is disloyal and it’s not nice. It’s worse than being the OW (which I have been before). Never again am I knowingly getting involved in that hot mess again. And if I do unwittingly find myself in it, I’m walking away. I know I can do it because I did it before.
Grace:
“When I was with the playa, believe me, his needs were well and truly met. His friends thought he had hit the jackpot.”
This is one of the things I find most disturbing about men (at risk of making sweeping statements!) – that they think other men like the playa have “hit the jackpot”. Are these cheating MMs and playas and commitment free EUMS only doing what other men wish they had the nerve to be doing or wish they too could get away with? it would seem so by the many oft used phrases like “hit the jackpot” that are applied to these men (‘all his birthdays have come at once’ and ‘having his cake and eating it’). When I hear other men “clapping” the MM/EUM/playa on the back, I can’t help but wonder, ‘what is the point in forcing men into monogamy when it’s plainly not their first choice or not something they find desirable. Maybe it’s something they are prepared to co-operate with IF they know the woman they are with (and want to stay with) would not tolerate anything less.
I was watching a crime-watch programme last night. A young girl (in the city nearest to where I live) comes out of a nightclub alone (having lost contact with her friends) a man grabs her off the main thoroughfare, pulls her forcibly into an alleyway them into a doorway here he brutally rapes her (this is partially caught on cctv). After the attack as she is trying to get up from the ground, another man walking down the alleyway stops as if to help her but he then pulls her back into the doorway and rapes her all over again (there is some suspicion however that two attackers may be known to each other – but they may not be).
Maybe it’s the way I’m feeling about men generally right now – post EUM , but this horrid tale of this poor girl’s ordeal happening virtually on my doorstep made me feel a total loss of faith in all male humanity ) that girl could have been my precious daughter – except that I make her and her friends promise to leave home together and come home *together* and never to part ways !). These two men will be going about their lives at home and at work with their families/wives/girlfriends etc. for all the world like “normal people” and that’s what bothers me – how (ostensibly) normal these men are (and look).
Sorry – but I am in a bad place with “men” today. And am probably now way off topic.
fearless
no, they thought he had hit the jackpot with ME. These were good guys. they figured the playa would settle down with me. They would introduce me as the girlfriend. Ah, little did they know.
On the other hand, you’re right, other guys DID admire his philandering ways. They were EU hot messes.
There are good men out there, lots of them. But for sure the bad ones really can wreak havoc. Sometimes because they are stronger than us, sadly.
Hear you Grace. Yes they do wreak havoc. They destroy people.
You don’t want to let go!!!
What do your friends and family think of this?
I’m also curious as to what you get out of this? I hope there aren’t kids involved?
Hi Grace,
This thread is truly heart-stopping. I had myself firmly convinced that his wife of 27 years wasn’t meeting his needs. I now cannot for the life of me fathom how I bought it. 27 years, really? Worse, it was NONE OF MY BUSINESS whether his needs were being met or whether her needs were being met. They are married. Their respective needs had nothing to do with me, although I thought so at the time, key in Florence? I’ve never identified with the Florence boxes until now. Runner to the rescue? This is all a tough lesson at 52.
I am sorry you were betrayed. It has to be worse than being the OW because the betrayed partner doesn’t know. It is not fair that a MM spends time away from their spouse/family and spends their money on OW. I can see it from both sides now. I am so very sorry I betrayed his wife, children, my daughter, and myself. All of my doors, the chimney, the windows, my stucco, and my tile grout is firmly bolted and sealed shut. Wonder why I spent the last few months sealing my tile grout. I’ve been subconsciously sealing every single crack in my physical house in hopes of mending the cracks in my emotional house. You asked: “And what if his “need” is to have two women on the go? One for home and one for fun? What does the wife do then?” Answer: Walk?
Hey runner,
it’s only once you are out of these situations that you really see what you have been involved in – a whole of cheating, a whole lot of lying and a whole lot of hurt – and it can have a severely detrimental effect on the children (if there are any) for the rest of their lives, which is why MMs banging on about how they only stay with the wife for the sake of their children (while continuing the affair) are talking a lot of shite. I have said this before long ago and will repeat now: I heard a church minister once on the radio during a talk about families and the role of the father – he said, very wisely I thought, that the most important thing a man can do for his child is to love its mother. And I thought how true that was on many levels. Having an affair – cheating and lying and betrayal – is detrimental to the mother therefore detrimental to the children.
Hi Bri,
There is a classic story by Ernest Hemingway, Hills Like White Elephants. Have you read it? Your story reminds me of Hemingway’s. Why?
Because of the way Hemingway writes how a man like him sees the relationship: he calls the man “the man” and the woman “the girl”. You’ll notice in his story how they ‘fight’ over her getting an abortion – he’s trying to pressure her while saying he cares – she is so concerned with him continuing to like her and trying to get him to care for her that she tries to bargain by getting him to promise to like her if she goes through with it for him.
It’s impossible to see the woman as a woman, as an equal, when she is always, in his mind, ‘the girl.’ And she probably is younger, and he buys her stuff, so there’s that dynamic.
In your story, even the way you tell it, he’s the Man and you’re the Girl.
When I read about this douche telling you, perhaps in lovey tones, but basically to “sit”, like his precious puppy, on a leash and wait til daddy comes back to pet you again and take you out, I am reminded of this fictional douche saying, in the same breath: “I care for you … and ‘it’s perfectly simple,'” ie. I love you sweetie now get the fecking abortion already so we can be done with it.
Your MM is saying, oh good Bri, pretty Bri, now sit and wait for Daddy to be done playing Family Man. I said I’m busy, Bri, now sit. Sit. Good girl!
All the lovey dovey stuff, the I’m sorting myself stuff, is just to try and keep you mollified and available for sex when he decides he wants it again. “I love you sweetie now just stay the fuck off my case until I tell you I’m ready for more.” The fact that he treats you this way means he has no respect or interest in your thoughts.
At the end of the day guys like this just want you to be smiling pretty for them no matter what it costs you.
Anyway, I rant. Maybe trying to show you how you’re being exploited isn’t the way to help.
Dear Mag, what a tremendous analogy. I’ve been reading and re-reading the link you provided to Hemingway’s “Hills Like White Elephants” all night. I’ve so been that girl in the bar with the man. I’ve said those exact same words the girl did cos I was the girl. It brought me right back to Feb 2008 in an OC mall and parking lot and so many nights before. I like beer a lot, despite the empty calories. Your insight on how she is the girl and he is the man is, well, genius. I have to admit, however, I haven’t had any formal training in Hemingway. Please tell me the girl was really fine. Otherwise, I’ll stay up all night googling it. Did the girl walk? Too brilliant for words Magnolia. Still trying to get a grip. I feel like when my daughter emails me about a Shakespeare passage or a anthro forefather. I have to go back to the drawing board. The girl was really fine and realized she was a woman and deserved better, right?
Still re-reading and thinking. Wow! I think the girl ended up fine and walking. Magnolia, I would like to really encourage you in your academic pursuits. Like Natalie, you are truly gifted. Thank you for sharing your gifts. So, am a right…the girl walked, right?
@runner:
You make me laugh with your question – I’m not sure how tongue in cheek it is. But since you ask twice, I’ll tell you how I read it. “The girl” is so passive-aggressive throughout, with the liquorice comment, and the ‘I don’t care about me’; she’s unhappy but will not leave him, so she gets her digs in however she can.
The climax actually comes when for a brief moment, she gets direct with him. The last thing she says to him, before the waitress interrupts them, is basically telling him to shut up or she’ll scream. But he goes and moves the bags, and comes back and pushes the reset button:
‘Do you feel better?’ he asked.
‘I feel fine,’ she said. ‘There’s nothing wrong with me. I feel fine.’
And so she accepts his reset. In the worldview of Hemingway, which wasn’t exactly the most optimistic around relationships or loyalty, especially male/female relationships (read The Sun Also Rises for the portrait of an EUM who pines after an EU woman he can’t have and who taunts him), the couple just carries on. One imagines her ‘going through with it’ and resenting him and making him pay for the rest of their lives together. One imagines him dumping her eventually when she refuses to just “be fine afterwards. Just like we were before.”
I mean, check him out, referring to her pregnancy: ‘That’s the only thing that bothers us. It’s the only thing that’s made us unhappy.’ It? Thing? Ugh.
I don’t think the text suggests the girl is truly fine. Hemingway does a great job of reproducing the classic, halfhearted, exasperated “Honey, is something wrong?” and the martyred, “I’m fine.”
If anything it’s a story illustrating BR wisdom: the fact that they’re even having the conversation means they are so far from the ideal of a supportive man and happy woman looking forward to the birth of their child that the relationship is already dead. She will never get what she wants.
But for you, I will speculate that she goes off with him, cries for a night in the hotel room, finally realizes he is a giant pompous ass, walks without having the abortion, has the child, sues him successfully for child support, goes to night school, reads BR, grows up a lot, and finds herself a few years later loving herself, loving her kid, entertaining interest from far better men, and thanking her lucky stars she didn’t succumb to the Man’s (cough cough) ‘loving’ little solution to their ‘problem.’
And, because I’m thinking about this issue for myself right now, I am assuming there are daddy issues behind all this, Bri?
I just went on a date with a very nice man who has three daughters and clearly knows each of them well and is involved with and proud of them. I realized sitting there that there have been all kinds of ways that men have interacted with me as though I were a little girl and I didn’t even know it. I only realized, as I listened to this man talk about his daughters, that what I’ve longed for all my life was exactly the kind of interest he has for his daughters. I’ve wanted someone to think I was that special. So I never rejected it when a man came along and treated me special, like one treats a child who clearly needs to be told she’s special.
But with this guy, I’m suddenly struck with: hold on, his daughters are the sweet, pretty little ones who need to be told they are special. What does a man who already has ‘girls’ in his life want with another little girl (i.e me)? What does such a guy do with a woman? How I would I expect him to relate? What would he expect of me? New questions for me.
Your helplessness now reminds me of my illusions of my own helplessness with exACs. I was a lost little girl looking for love. Unfortunately, the most likely men to sign up for that are the ones who only see “girl” anyway where in fact there is a woman.
But unless we act like women, we get taken about as seriously as the little girls driving our love-seeking behaviour.
You’ve got to start loving yourself, Bri, or else you’re like a shivering homeless girl at the bus stop to whom every smooth talking pimp will offer dinner and a warm bed. Right now you’re feeling back out in the cold, and just longing for the warmth of that bed and the beggar’s meal of his attention.
But you can – and you have to – feed and house yourself, Bri. You’re not a girl anymore, and right now you’re essentially trading sex for something you think you can’t give yourself. But you can.
Thank you Magnolia – this comment is so insightful and *brilliant*.
I had a serious case of Daddy Hunting and did exactly as you described with a string of older boyfriends. Oddly, despite looking to be treated like a girl, I felt patronised and rejected when they didn’t treat me like a woman, even though looking back, I sometimes behaved or related like a girl. “Unfortunately, the most likely men to sign up for that are the ones who only see “girl” anyway where in fact there is a woman.” Bingo
“You’ve got to start loving yourself, Bri, or else you’re like a shivering homeless girl at the bus stop to whom every smooth talking pimp will offer dinner and a warm bed. Right now you’re feeling back out in the cold, and just longing for the warmth of that bed and the beggar’s meal of his attention.” I need to digest both of your comments more – just breathtaking.
Awesome. So well said from all you guys!! We have to “Grow ourselves up” and nurture ourselves, giving to us what we didn’t get as children. It is really empowering when we see that we are not at the mercy of others anymore.
Bri, it isn’t just about grieving the loss of this “man” or “relationship”. Put the focus on you. Spend time thinking about WHY this is okay, why it is familiar, why you play this role. I’m sure you have a lot to grieve and you CAN’T do the work if your attention is on this issue. He is like the alcohol for the alcoholic — diverts your attention and focus from you and what is REALLY going on. Stay no contact, for you, and work your ass off.
bringing up the issue about dating an EU guy with kids he treats like gold, maybe he even gets the Dad of the Century Award, and then how there is a disconnect in the way they relate to you as a *woman* –it’s something I’ve really been struggling with. nurturing, caring, putting your loved ones first — those are qualities we’re all supposed to be looking for, right? at this point (46), almost all the men who who I will ever date in my life will have children, maybe even grandchildren. I have dated “confirmed bachelors” w/no kids, there’s always something off there, like they’ve never grown out of adolescent selfishness (I don’t see the same as being true for bachelorettes, btw). I think many dads do become comfortable w/a giving style that evolves from their parenting, and when the kids are young, they get that unconditional love too. so then they find themselves single again (or NOT), and they want an *adult* relationship with a woman — or do they? can they really be 100% emotionally available to take the risk of opening up their lives, souls, hearts to another? I guess that’s the big question with any potential partner. I don’t know where I’m going with this, but I’ve spent a lot of time the last 18 months trying to square in my mind how someone can be such an amazing, devoted father, and then turn around and be such a coldhearted bastard to a woman he claims to love. I don’t understand how people can compartmentalize themselves that way. I guess I’m still pretty naive, plus I don’t have kids. and maybe I’m still going by the example I had growing up with my Dad, so I keep expecting that these guys have it together emotionally because they’re “nice”. great — now a whole other thing to have to mull over…
Magnolia,
Wow and thank you so much more food for thought to apply to my own situation.
@ anoosh: I agree that just b/c someone is a great dad doesn’t automatically make them a good partner. This person last night, for example, said more than once that hanging out with his kids is like hanging out with friends. Now, his kids are 7, 10 and 13 so that was a tiny amber flag for me – I think at that age kids still very much need a Dad, who can love AND set boundaries, not just a buddy who plays catch with them and also sniggers with them when Mom tries to lay down the law.
In any case, because he was both clearly engaged in his daughters’ lives AND just a guy who is about my age with no special powers, our conversation got me thinking about how powerful adults are for us as kids, but that these men who were, or should have been, these amazing father figures are in fact just guys (the sun doesn’t shine out of their bums, as Nat would say).
In my case if I had had a more emotionally mature Dad, I might have been older before I had to start dealing with the facts of his human fallibility; I might have been older and the process might have been much more gradual as I matured, took on more responsibility, and he fell from Fatherly God to fellow adult and flawed human.
For lots of us, Dad was unreliable from the time we were so little that his unreliability and his God-like status are all mixed up, and our own sense of self-sufficiency and little girlness are still all mixed up. Don’t know if I’m expressing this clearly…
I’m sure this guy loves his daughters and they love him. I always knew my rescuer ex from way back would have been all about his kids (he actually has them now and is all about his kids). At the time I was so Daddy Hunting that I also knew I’d be jealous of my own kids if I had them with him! But I also knew he’d never be able to say no to them, just like he could never say no to me, and eventually they’d walk all over him, just like I did.
This is a truly powerful comment- thanks, Magnolia! I don’t think I’ll ever think about relationships (and my relationships, specifically) quite the same way after reading it.
Anoosh– I’m a bit skeptical about the Best Dad in the World thing. I think a lot of men who are divorced/separated etc. have a lot of guilt about messing up their families and their kids and they go into overdrive as single dads, perhaps because they weren’t truly available and present to their kids in the past. It is all fine and well for them to mend their relationships with their kids and put them first but this doesn’t necessarily make for a great partner. For one thing, they may be too busy proving themselves to their kids/showing their ex she was wrong/righting the wrongs of the past to truly prioritize a a new person. Not that they shouldn’t be striving to be the best possible parent to their children, but we have to make sure they have the capacity to do this AND be available for a mutual, caring, committed relationship with us.
anoosh
I’ll get Bitch of the Year Award for this but – all’s fine while the kids are little. These EUMs CANNOT cope when the children are older and need firm boundaries and moral guidance. The kids no longer worship dad. They think dad’s an embarrassment. They have different interests and loyalties. I’ve seen it go pear-shaped a number of times with Dads of the Year when the children grow up.
Even if I’m exaggerating, don’t believe everything he says. The best fathers I know, don’t brag about what good dads they are. If anything. they worry whether they are doing a good enough job.
I guess the FOOL is back from his escapade with one of his many women because today I got the “hello” text. UGH! I was taken aback because I didn’t expect him to contact me and I specifically told him that once he left for his vacation that I would never speak to him again. I’m holding strong to NC. I’m in such a better place since he left. I can think clearly. I’m not having panic attacks wondering who is the new addition to the “harem.” I’m making productive plans for my new year. And, most importantly, I’m actually very excited to be single. I’m FREE! I’m FREE to do ME all the time. And, for the first time in my “dating” life – I’m ok with it.
I learned so much about myself through my non relationship with him. I have learned to stop selling myself short and settling on bits and pieces of a man, when one day, when I’m emotionally available, I will attract a whole man or, at this point…PERSON (hey, who knows 😉 ) But, seriously, NC has given me a great deal of objectivity and I’m going to put him far, far on the back burner because I’m no longer even attracted to him. He repulses me. He is a coward and weak and he’s a mindfuck…and I no longer have the time to spare.
Thank you Natalie, and posters for giving me strength!
I am so thankful for this site and for reading all the helpful comments. I too had a manipulative lying non-relatinship with an AC who used to periodically drop in and out and contact me for an ego stroke/validation etc until I finally called him out on his behaviour. I think his jaw must have dropped when I said that I’m no longer an “option” and that I do not wish to be part of his ‘harem’. He then proceeded to tell me he’s seeing a nurse who works at the same hospital as me who he ‘respects’ and ‘wants to settle down with’. Hmmmm my ass! He then blocked me on facebook, damn what a shame! I really am finally just so glad not to have that rubbish in my life! When you look at it this way, how pathetic is it to be 30 years of age and still needing ‘ego’ strokes from multiple people when you have a ‘partner’. Attractive behaviour? I think not. Ladies rejoice that you are no longer in this circus, and are free to love and live life the way YOU want to xx
Hell YES d! I too thought I’d never hear from my ex again and got the dreaded text today haha! Except it wasn’t a hello – years ago I told him he looked like a famous athlete and so today I received a text that said, “Hi Natasha. Someone just told me I look like “fill in name of famous athlete” and I thought of you haha.” I mean…seriously?! Girl, like you, I just burst out laughing and thought, “FOOL.” Here’s to a happy and assclown-free 2012 🙂
NO WAY! You’ve got to be making this up, right? It couldn’t fall more perfectly in the “Hey Natasha, look at me” zone. Totally amazing how they turn up and do their amazing circus tricks. Good for you for not responding and telling him what a jackass he is. It’s really wonderful to see how predictable these fools are. I guess I better bone up for his amazing circus tricks as it’s assclown season. I’m no longer hoping for a Miracle on Assclown Street…still laughing and slapping my thigh over that one and I can’t get the “Here’s Johnny” pic out of my mind. Thank you Natalie and all BR posters. It is amazing where I was last year and where I am now, thanks to you all. I’m no longer staring at the decision!
Runner, you have me cracking up!! Circus tricks is right – it’s amazing how it never occurs to them how dumb they look. My mother was like, “It’s highly possible that no one even said that to him. He’s that much of an ass.” You are very right that every time they act in their attention seeking, loser-ish manner…it just reinforces the decision haha!
Liza
I am grateful to find this website. I have been reading the posts and need some advice. I am married and work for a good company, enjoy my job and am not going to leave the company for another 5 years. The situation is this, a co-worker, male who is also married befriended me for a period of time. Then his friendship changed into “I want you”. I have made it perfectly clear that I am not a friend who gives out benefits and I am married – period! This has not stopped this person from what I call stalking. He shows up everywhere I am, watches me on security cameras, is very sly and sneaky. Will come into my office whenever he chooses (nothing happens) to show me he has the upper hand or wants to make sure that I am thinking about him, etc. and will not let me purge him from my mind, etc. He filters in and out and causes an upheavel in my day. I cannot report him because he is part of the management that plays and gets away with it. I am a very strong person who can ignore someone as if they weren’t there as in the NC rule. Because it is a work environment I cannot make myself invisible to them, only pretend to be. I truely believe this person is a Narricist and thrives on attention and will stop at nothing to get it. I am careful because some people are unpredictable in behavior and I don’t want to be caught off guard. It drives me crazy with their behavior coming and going and I can’t stop them. I have literally been cold and walked in opposite directions if I see them and they get upset about it and are relentless at making contact. What am I doing wrong? Is there a better way to handle this at work?
Liza, that is a tough situation. It is your workplace and you should not be subject to this; but since guys like the ones you describe get their thrills from being the bad boy who breaks the rules, the ‘shoulds’ may not make much difference.
If your company is big enough, you could try to document his harassment and when you have enough evidence, go to HR. Could you be moved to another dept where he wouldn’t have access to you? From watching my exAC react to complaints against him that went through HR, I do get the sense that if a narc feels other people see that he’s harassing a woman, he’ll do what’s necessary to fix the damage to his image. It’s all about image to them. So if you can go through official channels to let it be known he’s bothering you, he may leave you alone.
Reading Lynda’s and agirliknow’s posts have got me to thinking … we listen to these guys tell their side of the story. Their stories about the relationships they had with their exes, their childhoods, their traumas, and we get their perceptions and begin to empathize with them, so we have a distorted view as to what is really going on … we’re not getting the big picture, because though these things may be somewhat true and very tragic for them, WE are the ones who are paying the price. Its hard to think of them in terms of being “bad guys” or judging them as Natalie has said in previous posts. That’s the beauty of NC because with time away, we get this clarity and the ability to see it for what it really is. (Like stepping out of and being a “third party” so to speak.) And we can see just how inappropriate and UNDESERVING we are of their actions, despite what their past may be. It helps to think in terms too of ‘would this be acceptable behavior if this were happening to my best friend or my sister or my daughter??’ Puts things into perspective for us. Though their past may be tragic (I myself have sat and cried while hearing about the abuses an ex endured as a child) it is not our responsibility as GF/wives/lovers to pay the restitution for their injustices. They are responsible for their actions and behaviors just as we are.
I’m finally committing to NC with an ex. I tried before but he always found the right “key” to get me open the door, even if it was to scream, “you have some nerve!” at him. This has been going on for six years. We began as friends and grew very close. He had a girlfriend at the time and I made sure any other feelings I was developing were kept at bay. He broke up with her and told me he had fallen in love with me less than two months later. I felt he needed more time to recover but he kept on me until I caved. He was still living with his ex. He started to get annoyed whenever I expressed that I couldn’t feel secure in the relationship as long as he was still living with his ex. Eventually he broke up with me (I had tried to break up with him several times), saying, “I’m sorry, I just wasn’t ready, I thought I was” two months after his ex moved out a year and a half after we started dating.
I had initiated NC then and after a bumpy start, I was able to start to get on with my life. But we have similar interests in music and share many of the same friends so I knew it was inevitable that I would run into him again. And I did and nothing happened at first but we started being friendly again after awhile and then starting to hang out together again for a couple of years and it was okay, but I knew I still had feelings left and I suspected he did too. And last year, we slept together admitting there was more going on all along. So we “casually” dated, because he still wasn’t ready for a relationship and I didn’t think I was either and we both agreed we should both see other people. I, of course, did not because I’m not comfortable with dating a lot of people at once. And he didn’t either for most of the time we were casually dating. Until last September. He went on one date and told me because he felt badly about it because of his feelings for me but still wasn’t ready for a relationship with me and said we would figure something out and work through it together. I believed him.
Then he went on another date three days later after saying he would take some time to think about it… three days later. Two more weeks after that date he decides this new person is someone he wants to be in a relationship with. Knows me six years and isn’t sure. Knows her three weeks total and knows for certain she’s the one he wants to be with. You’d think…
NoMore
Yeah that’s how it goes.
I don’t think anyone ever gets an upgrade from fallback girl to proper girlfriend.
Although I “achieved” an upgrade to wife (don’t ask me how, I ain’t sharing and I ain’t recommending), I filed for divorce within a year. I also “won” a MM. That ended with him dumping me and then being the most EU “friend” for 15 years before I finally cut him off in exasperation. I’ve also “achieved” an upgrade to live-in girlfriend. That ended with me being punched and pushed around. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work and continuing to pursue it WILL backfire on you. I am seriously telling you, you don’t want this guy.
Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.
And don’t take it personally AT ALL if things work out with this girl.
You can’t control how they see you, or the timing of when you meet. You could be the Virgin Mary, extremely likeable, gorgeous, with 2 grad school diplomas, the reputation, voice, and body of an angel, and a terrific and rich family to boot–if they are not over an ex or not ready (and stupidly think they could “do better” ONLY BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT READY FOR MARRIAGE YET AND NO OTHER REASON), then you are toast!
i had the on contact but some how gave in . i feel like a fool he told me he have a friend but it nothing serious and that he can let go of that like nothing i felt like piece of shit when he told me that my face felt to the floor the reason is if you have a someone why you still after me. i am so tired of this situation in my life i don;t know what to do. i put the no contact rule again and hope that i will look the other way for ever i been almost a year in this situation.
hi plumies –
glad you have gone nc again. the nerve of that guy telling you he has someone and it’s nothing serious – does he say that to all the women he wants to have on a string? every one of them nothing serious? but him always chasing down a new piece?
you only need to feel a fool as long as you let this man yank you around. you say you want to ‘look the other way’ for ever … can you get him out of your line of sight completely? easier not to have to see him at all than to have to keep turning your face away to avoid the AC glare.
anyway keep coming back here and you’ll get stronger every day
I’ve been no contact for almost 4 months now and my ex just called AGAIN yesterday. I hadn’t noticed, because unlike when we were together, I don’t sit around waiting for him or anyone else to call. Plus, I was working. Since I told him to kick rocks and started NC, I get random calls and texts from all kinds of phone numbers. It’s either him or some family member of his (that I’ve never heard of) leaving voicemail or sending texts telling me he’s sick/in the hospital/not doing well/asking have I spoken to him. It’s really annoying and pisses me off. I blocked him on fb, his calls, and texts. It’s getting to the point where I’m thinking about changing my number, but I’m tired of all these random numbers popping up on my phone.
Another well written post Natalie! I’ve been on NC for almost 2 months, and each day, slowly, I try to reward myself for making it through another day!I dated this AC for awhole 2 years: it amounted to alot of future faking+ lying+denial+rationalising. I finally got tired of making excuses for his shitty behavior and cut contact.
When I did NC I was sure I wasn’t going to hear from him ever again. And then, the first msg came (btw I saved his name under “MR. UNAVAILABLE/ASSCLOWN”) The 1st msg, he told me that he understood that I want to be left alone and didn’t ‘want to intrude’ but that his life has been ‘horrible lately’ etc etc’. I did not respond. Then a few days ago, I got another sorry-ass msg! It began with “It feels like we haven’t spoken for ages….” I didn’t read the whole msg and immediately pressed delete! Ugh! It just gave me such an uneasy feeling.
I am still surprised that he would KEEP at it! I agree that it is nowhere near flattering that he would try to contact me:P And these 2 msgs were longer than any other msg’s he’d ever written me while we were dating! I am more angry than anything + disgusted even. You are absolutely right that these AC’s dont even give a shit about busting boundaries, it is ALL ABOUT THEM! He probably just wants to be in control again + reel me back into another cycle of craziness!no thankyou!
Right now, I’m driven to not turn back. I’m definitely not gonna allow this AC to try jimmy or bash down my door! It is NOT worth the pain at all. Thanks for this!:)
Today is rough. Yesterday was rough. I’m trying not to think ahead past today, because I know that will only bring me down further if I try to imagine how I’m going to get through any more days. The problem with that is that I’m imagining every day in the future as me feeling how I feel today. It’s terrible, suffocating feeling, but in know I will get better, feel better, I have to know that, or I won’t make it. I’m trying so hard to put the REALITY of him in the forefront of my thoughts, NOT the fantasy. He is, no joke, an assclown who made every assclown maneuver there is. Everything from Nat’s list about how to recognize an assclown, that list IS who he is. But damn that fantasy just doesn’t seem to want to go away. I can’t seem to take him off this pedestal I put him on, one that he should not be on. Why do I have to talk myself into the fact that he lost out on ME? Anyway, NC feels empowering at some moments, and lonely the next. Just needed to vent today, I’m trying to keep in mind that the humiliation I’ve been through when he contacted me for an ego stroke, and I fell for it, is not worth the momentary high, and the lasting hangover of sadness. I’m trying to remember that his lack of contact is GOOD, because it spares me the temptation to answer, but I must remember that MY lack of contact speaks volumes as well, I hope it’s telling him I know I’m worth more than he was giving (basically nothing), and I won’t continue to be used, lied to, cheated on, etc. I was once the live in girlfriend and not the one he deleted texts from and ignored their calls, now I feel like he’s made me the other woman.Yuck. I’m just hurting so much, but trying to feel the pain and not totally try to supress it, but i admit i do need some sort of distraction and outlet, or the pain eats me alive. Seeing a counselor now, feel like I should be in therapy 24/7.
NCC
“Why do I have to talk myself into the fact that he lost out on ME?”
You don’t. (I get what you’re saying as I went through all of that niggling myself about what he thinks/what he wins/what he loses/what he thinks of me blah blah). Here’s the thing: he doesn’t matter anymore! You do. Just you. What he’s lost or thinks he’s lost or doesn’t think/could think/might think/might want/ doesn’t want… it doesn’t matter! He is not going to be any part of your future – your future is about you. Here’s the other thing: if you don’t stay away from him and focus now only on yourself as the important person here then the person who’s going to lose out on you is *you*. The longer you make it about him the longer you have lost out on you. Who cares what he’s lost or hasn’t lost. He’s history! You are not.
Thanks LyndaL! it just makes me feel a little frightened how the switches are, as in, he was sending a present and now its back to full blown threats again after not having had the reaction he wanted. its just sooooooo crazy i just cant get round his way of thinking. I think he knows that i just wanna move on after over 3 month and he is trying honestly everything to get back in. I wouldnt be surprised by him lurking behind every tree 😉 but with this feeling how can i relax? ? ?
Hello everyone, just checking in with BR, don’t come here too much anymore because I am FINALLY OVER HIM!! Ahh, what a beautiful thing to know and feel and believe in my heart. For those of you who followed the pain of my “returning college lover” and 26 years later a full blown 1 plus year affair and he was married, back and forth just like the rest of you, NC then no NC……
What happened? I think it was a mix of reading BR religiously every day, sometimes several times a day to read the bloggers comments (I think Nat should get a sainthood for being there for us over and over and OVER until it starts to sink in), counseling, and it all was just sinking in a little at a time, almost without me knowing it. My self esteem and confidence starting coming back and it just started growing. We had some half hearted texts back in August, he tried to use his usual sex texts…and they just weren’t doing much for me! And one day he sent me a text, I sent him a text, he didn’t respond….and I just didn’t care! Halelujah!!
I had also started dating again and practiced my red flag awareness (and got the hell out of there if I saw one…no more waiting to see what happened…run, Forest, run is right!!), my boundaries, watched my chemistry not getting out of hand, and prayed a lot for deliverance from this pain. With every success, every time I said no to that red or amber flag, my confidence just grew and grew.
Have not heard from him in almost 4 months and I just plain don’t care. Now when I think about him, there is actually some revulsion on my part. Not at him, but at myself and where I allowed myself to go. The whole thing just makes me think “yuck!” now. It is so amazing when you are finally out of it and looking back, seriously, WTF was I thinking?
If/when I hear from him (and because of this blog, I know it is more when than if), I am going to think of that line from that great song by Gotye that someone on here posted “You’re just somebody that I used to know” (thank you to who ever did that, I must have listened to it a hundred times) and I will delete his text without another thought.
All of you who shared your stories and let me know I was not alone in this pain, thank you. Natalie, you are an amazing woman and I wish you huge exposure to help those of us flailing around with broken hearts out here. I give your website to whoever is having relationship problems.
Runnergirl, I think of you often as we had very similar situations and I pray for the same release for you. I know you will find it, I know it is coming soon, I can tell from your blogs. I had not actually seen him since May, but for some reason I kept allowing the occasional texts until they stopped in August. It is a long road to unwind. God speed!!
Happy Holidays everyone and I wish you all the best Christmas present ever – your life and your heart back. If someone has not been where we have, they don’t understand. It feels so good to belong to me again. I have been dating a SINGLE man for several months and I am having a great time. But he does not OWN me like I let the other one, although we have great chemistry it is under my control. Wishing you all a great 2012, and know if I did it, so can you cause I am just like all of you. Sorry to go on so long, but wanted to share with you all a success story. Yay!!
PS – I will still check in from time to time, because Nat’s down to earth advice is not just about relationships with men, but about relationships in life.
Oldenoughtoknowbetter,
Glad to hear your good news story. Yay! from me too. Well done. Wishing you all the best.
Oldenough,
GREAT news. I’m so happy for you. It sounds like you have finally made it out of the quicksand. A big high five. It is wonderful to hear that you are dating a SINGLE guy and trusting yourself to make decisions in your best interest. Change is possible. It’s just amazing what I put myself through when I look back too. This weekend is a year since the big break-up and we’ve been complete NC since July. I’m truly grateful I am not in that dark turmoil this year. There are still down days but I’m really committed to moving on and implementing my new BR life like you have. Natalie and the folks here are truly fabulous. I agree about Natalie being a saint. She must have told me 100 times “Runner you’re in danger girl” before I heard her. I’ll probably always read BR because you are right, it’s a world view, and a wonderful one.
Hope to hear more about your successes. Thank you for the inspiration. Cheers to an AC-Free 2012 and beyond!
Runnergirl, thanks for responding! Quicksand is the perfect word for it! That is how it felt looking back at it now. Heavy and slogging. But, I am also grateful for the experience, as I am not sure I would have recognized the man I am dating now as he did not fit my “mate” profile. Had my MM not thrown me into such pain, I may have jumped from EU to EU man for who knows how long! But the pain drove me to BR, to counseling, and to questioning my belief system with relationships. And yes, it mostly stemed back to dear old narcisstic dad. But recognizing it means I can finally change the dynamic…first you have to see it and own it.
Last year at this time I was contemplating my holidays without my “love” (gag) as he spent it with his family. On NY day I got pictures from his facebook showing the happy family man on Xmas eve. Only I knew that the day after Xmas he was in my bed, telling me he loved me. When I saw the pictures I almost threw up, literally. It was the pain I needed to drive me out, and I found BR that same week.
This year, just got off the phone with my single bf of 4 months. We are planning him and his son spending Xmas Eve with me and my boys, and discussing where we want to have a quick get away for a few nights the following week. Helloooo….that would be called a normal, loving, respectful relationship!!! My holidays this year will look nothing like last year…fun and pleasure vs. pain and lonliness. And the MM is welcome to whoever’s bed he finds himself in, the wife or another, who cares.
My counselor said change is always possible if one of two things exist; if the pain or the prize is big enough. Well said!
2012 is not going to be the “end of the world” in my mind, for me it is “the end of the world AS I KNEW IT”, and that is good!! Happy 2012 too!
I have been reading this blog for roughly a year – first time posting. I want to say that I feel very blessed to have discovered such an incredible site. Thank you Natalie! I have shared your website & wealth of knowledge with many girlfriends. What a supportive community (:
I have been doing some research in moving through the after effects of a painful breakup. Ex EUM & I broke up in May of this year. Currently I have the most supportive partner I have ever experienced to date. He is the most wonderful man I have ever met – feel like I can truly be myself around him, we have similar values – I often feel like we are the same person in two different bodies lol. I don’t ever feel myself starved in any way.
I still think about my ex on a nearly daily basis though & this is what I am trying to get past. I have recognized that he is very harmful to my psyche & have let go of the desire to be in a relationship with him. In fact I feel often elated that I am out of the relationship. I am just struggling with moving past the painful memories & realizations that I actually was used by someone I have come to believe through my research is a compensatory narcissist. Tonight I stumbled upon one website that speaks of PTSD. I often thought this was just an illness/reaction of mostly war veterans, victims of car accidents, etc but other websites have spoken about having PTSD after relationships with narcissists.
I have experienced many of the symptoms of PTSD after the relationship with the EUM ended. Does anyone here have any more insight into this they can share with me?
I am thinking if I seek therapy with someone who specializes in PTSD I may have some luck in moving forward.
Thoughts?
The EMDR technique is supposed to work miracles with PTSD. It’s a short-terms therapy that uses brain repatterning via either eye movements or a vibrated pulse to sort of calm or neutralize memories of the trauma. (Includes emotional trauma.) It’s got a really solid reputation. You need a licensed therapist who is trained in EMDR — Google around and see who does it in your area.
I’m going to do it myself.
Wow – this is amazing. How fortunate and grateful am I to have stumbled across this site. I am day 1 in to NC with the MM, and thanks to reading all the articles and posts, I now have so much more clarity as to what has been really going on for the past 5 months. Future Faking!!! OMG, what a revealation! The actions not reflecting the words! The walls coming crashing down when he got found out by his wife! In hindsight, it was all so predictable. I did manage to end it with him face to face and I said he wasn’t giving me what I needed in a relationship, which he conceded, but I got all the lines – “no one will ever love you as much as I can” (!) “I can’t bear to think of you with someone else” blah, blah, blah. I have to admit I got into this relationship with him after coming out of an 8 year marriage, and it was too soon – today all I could think of was I had come out of the frying pan into the fire, and of course I got burnt more, and ended up in more pain! The one thing I regret, even now as I write this, is before I broke it off, I booked myself to go away for the weekend (on my own, as he is going to have Xmas abroad with his family – of course) to stay in a villa he owns. I’ve paid for the flights, everything is arranged and its happening in 2 days time. Am I deluding myself I can manage this? I have deleted the MM from my email, my phone book and what’s app (where we could have written a book with the number of exchanges we had), and we agreed a day ago that we would no longer have any contact – which was mutual. I do feel in a good place emotionally, stronger than I ever have, but I hope this doesn’t set me back.
A good friend said to me once “H, if you stepped away from the illusion of this guy and wrote down what he really is, you’d run a mile right?”. We should all live in the real world and focus on those who are true and consistent in their behaviour. In saying that, I just recieved a call from the AC this morning, unfortunately I answered it as the bumber was blocked and I thought it could have been my work…. he then proceeded to pretend he was someone else…. *sigh* How do you keep NC if they call intermittantly on other numbers?
ohmigudness! i broke NC. the FOOL sent me a text and i replied. no drawn out conversation. but, i did. i feel really foolish. i’m not spinning out of control like i want to see him. i hate when people feel the need to update you on good happenings in their life. i only responded with two one word responses. pray for me ladies. i do not want to get tangled back in the web.
Oy vey d., our former assclowns are very similar. I can recall getting a text from my ex over the summer saying that he’s planning on buying a house – mind you, I don’t speak to him and he’s well aware that I don’t like him. If you think about it, who the hell is going to text someone that doesn’t speak to them and isn’t a part of their life to tell them their good news? An attention-seeker, that’s who. That’s all this guy is doing when he’s texting you. Falling off the wagon and responding happens and it’s not the end of the world. Us recoverying fallback girls have a tendency to mentally remove our options and decide the situation’s hopeless and we won’t be able to resist. I promise you that you can! I was in a boomerang relationship with my ex for five freakin’ years, so if I can do it, trust me that you can too. Hope this helps!
natasha,
thanks for your support. his texts are becoming more detailed and lenghty. which is interesting because when we were “seeing” eachother his responses were brief. this is the first time that i’ve ever actually paid attention to the actual healing process of a breakup, but in this case we weren’t really a couple, so i don’t know what to call this that i’m experiencing.
and natasha, you are correct! he is an attention seeker. i told him from the start that he’s a narcissist and needs therapy. why is it when we see these red flags, instead of leaving, we stay? i will be blocking him very soon. i’m finding his half assed attempts a little entertaining for now. 😉 mainly because he is so stupid. who pushes someone away only to start chasing them?…gtfohwtbs!!!! who really gives a shit that he’s possibly starting a new career? i really don’t…unless he plans on giving me the money back that i spent on wining and dining his ass. i think i should send him an invoice breaking down the expenditures — everything (i.e. meals, gas, my time, sex…LOL)….UGGHHH…
He texted you to say that he’s “possibly starting a new career”?! So nothing has actually…happened. You are so well shot of this guy, he sounds like a leech AND a tool!
i like you natasha! he is a leech. a complete user. a tool. and a male whore! i don’t know what i saw in him. i was very lonely and at times i enjoyed his company. but, in hindsight, i wasn’t enjoying his company because my time was spent walking on eggshells and trying to please him. jeez…
NC is working. i ididn’t respond at all to yesterday’s text msg although i really wanted to to say “go f#$%” yourself.” but, knowing him, he would probably responded “how about i f$$% you instead” because he is a jokester and that was our regular banter. so, i left it alone.
lastly, this time around with NC i have opened my eyes and see that if they contact you it’s purely for attention and to see if they’ve still got a hold on you. for example, i have a fallback boy that i reach out to only because i know he still has feelings for me. (look, i’m only a human and EUW…lol), but, in all seriousness, to be fair and considerate of his feelings, i’ve stopped contacting the fallback boy too. i’m working through my issues…
heya Magnolia, Izzybell, grace, NML, great food for thought on the topic, how men we’re attracted to fit in w/our personal histories/chemistries around our own Dads. and, relationships with men who are already Dads themselves. frankly, my mind is reeling. I haven’t dated since my breakup, but I’ve been feeling quite pathetic about that since it’s 18 months. Life is very short, not getting younger, etc. Since I never seem to meet anyone in the course of living my life, I decided to go online, TRY to be proactive, at least go through the motions of looking at profiles of men who are putting themselves out there, saying they *ARE* ready. I spent many hours over a few days at a couple sites. I’d say 90-95% in my age range have kids. Such mixed feelings. #1, my exEUM used the excuse of the kids for ultimately why he had to back out w/me. he Future Faked about how things would play out, but when it came down to it, he didn’t want to create a new home with a new partner where he’d only see his kids half the time. unfortunately for me, it took him a *year* to figure that out. he moved out/separated TWO years ago, but still goes to the house every day, basically operates the same as before in a family unit, only he & his “ex” are not “together”, he just sleeps somewhere else (how convenient). I realize it’s pointless trying to analyze the situation anymore, it’s long over. but it makes me look at all these other guys w/kids so differently. who knows what games they play to win you over, and what the reality would be down the line? how much would I invest of myself, my heart before I got to see the real deal? and always, I would come second. what if the kids/wife hated or resented me?
I just can’t believe I bought into the rosy picture that was painted, I never allowed that before. Certainly seeing how deeply devoted he is just melted me. We spent time his older son, who is 25, they have an incredibly close relationship. He was so comfortable about this, I had no hint he would ultimately flip OUT about me meeting the younger kids (11 & 14). He said he had guilt, since he had the first son so young, and he & that mom didn’t work out, he had to travel very far to see him growing up. Again, that woman allowed him to come and stay in her home to make this possible b/c of the distance. Hmm, I see a pattern… btw, not one guy online appealed to me. NC,…
I’ve said this plenty of times on here and in real life: trying to make contact is NOT flattering, it’s NOT cute, it’s NOT sweet. It’s disrespectful and when it used to happen to me, I had one of 2 extreme reactions – pure amusement or pure rage. 😐
Grace – absolutely regarding these dads. Even with the best of intentions, they can not stand when their children have their own opinions, needs, and separateness from them because they lose control. They have trouble with boundaries in all areas.
Case in point why we need to have NC of any form… and stay off their FB … ex EU/AC posted as his status a BR status post!! (The only reason he knows of BR is through me.) I don’t know if I feel like laughing, crying, or vomiting! Staying off his FB page.
LoJ, you have given him a gift…whether he utilizes it or not is beyond you but could change his life for the better. Good on you. You’ve led him to the water.
Okay. I’ve opted for the crying. I would hope that BR would be utilized and help him, but I had also hoped his three years of therapy would help him as well. I was hopeful throughout this whole relationship, as I saw signs all along. Oh, I should have not gotten involved. He was the victim. With EVERYTHING. And I tried not to be the fixer, I’d say, this isn’t healthy, for you, for us … and he’d actively try to make changes. (Then keep silent “score” and when something came up, I’d be blasted with all his grievances against me.) And I thought that because he was “dedicated to personal growth”, that we could grow in the relationship together. I mean, I had my issues as well. And I addressed them. But I didn’t keep score or feel hostility towards him. And when he questioned anything about me, I was like, “bring it!” I know who I am and what I’m capable of. Solid. I loved this man. When I finally saw that he was not capable of loving in return the way HE EXPECTED TO BE LOVED (don’t they have the NERVE), it was like a lightbulb went on in my brain. I believe he saw that light go on as well. And the relationship ended. (BIG DRAMA) He had told my son the day before we were a family. And like that, it was over.
And now, on his FB, he is quoting BR, “You’ll never be able to move on with your life, feel a sense of personal contentment and forge a happier, mutually fulfilling relationship with someone that *values* you, if you’re an option for someone else that *doesn’t*, or only values you for what they can get out of you on *their* terms.” Probably the victim again. I don’t know, maybe someone is setting boundaries with him. I hope. Maybe somebody was smarter than I was and opted out quickly.
I blocked him.
My AC also told me the ultimate reason why he couldn’t leave was because of his kids, who are very young. His wife threatened to move back to their home country and take the kids if he left them, and AC said he didn’t want to be away from them, and to be honest I couldn’t blame him. If nothing else he loves being a dad and I would never ask someone to choose between their kids and me. I have managed to maintain no contact, but I ran into his friends at a club last night, who are all cheaters and AC’s, and they told me that the reason he didn’t leave was because he loved his wife more – it was a straight choice. Hard to hear, but the truth can be a bitch that way sometimes. Now I just have to deal with it. F*** its hard.
KK
Count yourself very very lucky you didn’t end up with him.
I personally wouldn’t consider myself loved if my husband cheated on me and the only way I could get him to stay would be to threaten to take his kids away. ACs/EUMs have a warped view of what love is. They see it as some kind of game or bargain.
Don’t be envious of her. If anything feel sorry. And never again put yourself in a position where a man’s wife is YOUR problem.
This has turned out well for you. Stick to NC and keep the door closed and, one day, sooner than you think, you’ll be very pleased that he didn’t pick you. That’s if you’re thinking of him at all!
luv that look on things…..what i needed to hear also. I hope i get thru this along with you ladies
This website has been my saviour – I myself LOST MY MIND over a guy that chased me unrelentlessly while he had a girlfriend overseas for work (whom has now moved in with him and he refers to as his “temporary housemate”). I have basically been in a non-relationship for the past 18 months. I am now in complete NC – i cracked about 2 weeks ago and texted him on his birthday, idiot i know. I am now completely committed to NC – he’s done it to me multiple times, and i have to him too – for some reason this time feels different, one of us always came back, i think my self respect has hit an all time low – i just can’t bear the thought of getting in contact again, i’ve lost my dignity, time to get it back.
He could smell my low self esteem a mile away, he even warned me he was bad news and an arsehole! I am usually a very grounded, responsbile, no-bullshit kind of person, all about quality of friends not qantity – he totally blindsided me. We started dating and spent every waking moment together, he bought me a massive plasma tv so i would housesit for him (i refused, only knew him for 2 weeks at this stage), tried to get me to meet his mum after a week – totally turned on the bullshit.
He was so charming and we got along so well, i thought finally someone who gets me (never had a real relationship at 27!). Then after all the wining and dining and pretty much living together he tells me the girl who was his “casual f&^%” who he also happened to work with was returning from overseas and while he’s crazy about me, he was confused about how he felt. I wish i had of run for the hills then and there, but I was hooked. I ended up behaving in ways that i would never EVER have dreamed. We called it off and decided to be friends – because he needed to be single for a while.
What do you know, he charmed me back into bed and then i had the pleasure of walking to work and bumping into them together, first thing in the morning, multiple times a week (they works next door to me). This is where I lost my brain entirely – I kept seeing him when he knew I knew he was sleeping with both of us! And I kept it up, over and over again, thinking he would eventually choose me.
I am glad I’ve experienced what I’ve experienced, only so I can change my behaviour and stop this craziness. He wore my confidence down so badly and made me miserable, i would lay awake next to him at night actually feeling repulsed by him. That’s a feeling i hope i always remember.
He had no friends other than work people – which is why he said he had to “keep her on his good side” because she was a bitch and would turn everyone against him. The only other friend he had was a girl too – now I see he had to surrond himself with women to boost his own ego. He would talk shit about her and be…
I’m sorry to hear about your story. But, this is the time to really walk away and regain your dignity and self confidence…please believe me! He is not worth you loosing your mind! He is a liar! If he was bad mouthing the woman from overseas, please trust that he badmouthed you too. It will be difficult, so, take baby steps, but cut off all contact with him.
The guy I was seeing was seeing me and about 5 other women! I found emails, videos, all kinds of evidence to support this. And, I continued to see him for months. We all make mistakes and use bad judgement in our pursuit for love and being liked. But, when you engage with people (i.e. men, lovers, friends) who disrespect you and show you that they don’t care for you — then it is time to GO! I’m just realizing this and I’m in my thirties. Life really is too short and your time is too precious.
and another thing…why is he sending only texts!?! same BS crumb communication….he can not only go kick rocks — he can go smoke ’em!
So here I go again, started NC for the 3rd time with this ‘man’ who I have been in an on/off relationship with for a year. I totally fell for him. Would have bent over backwards to be with him. For the last 6 months hes worked away so we were in a kind of LDR. We spoke every day on the phone and sometimes would meet up if either of us could travel to one another. The only thing was that he was a ‘future faker’. He would promise me so many things, but they never seemed to materialise. One thing he promised was that he would be visiting me over the xmas period. So I rearranged plans with my own family and friends so that I could spend time with him. I then find out that he has no intetntion of visiting me over xmas at all. We argued about it but then he drew me back in. The last straw was Thursday. He has called on the wednesday night and everything was fine. On Thursday he didnt answer any of my calls and was the same on Friday. For some reason he is completely ignoring me. I have no idea what Ive done wrong, and although on Friday I felt like my banging my head against a brick wall trying to work out what I had done wrong, I actually now dont care what Ive done and just want him out of my life. The last text I sent was saying I cant be bothered with this anymore. He did not respond. I know that nothing bad has happened to him, or preventing him from contacting me, because there is recent activity on his facebook page.
So Im now on day 2 of no contact. When I had tried to apply no contact before, I would always cave in around day 8 and contact him. I think I wanted to use NC as a way of getting him back. But this time I actually dont want him in my life. Its as if my own heart is telling me it cannot take anymore. So I just wanted to know, would the NC process still work as effectively even though he is the one who started NC by totally ignoring my calls? It feels like I havent had closure because there was no talking or arguing like there was before.
Its also particularly hard this time of year as it was new years eve when I met him. I know Im going to be very sad over the holidays and Im scared of having a bit too much to drink, getting all nostalgic and contacting him 🙁
ddooooonnntttt doooo ittttttt!!!!!!
leave your phone at home, delete his number, do anything by any means to not contact him when your pissed, trust me it never bodes well! and ul feel like double shit the next day (hangover + breaking NC = misery!)
*biiiig hug*
xxx
hi,
i know NC will work this go round for you. it will be tough, but just stay strong. when someone initiates NC before you have decided to, the initial reaction is to continue to try to break that boundary and contact them for closure, say your last peace, etc. during this time of NC, even though your ex initiated NC, he is more than likely that he is expecting you to cave this time around. don’t give him the satisfaction! i know it works because another ex cut off contact with me after we broke up our engagement. i was usually the one to cave after months and go back to him, but, this time when he cut contact – i closed the door and haven’t looked back. for everyone it is different, but, honestly it took about 6-9 months for me to completely get over him, and stop obsessing.
so, continue to stay strong! and start focusing on you. because the greatest thing i’ve leaned from BR is when you take the focus off of THEM and focus on YOU, your life starts to come together, and you attract people in your life who WANT to be there. you will no longer fight to be in someone’s life who doesn’t really want you.
Don’t drink, stay away from your temptations, it will take all of your strength to do this but if you give yourself time to reflect and absorb all that goes with the disconnecting of this relationship you will be back to clarity and feeling better. It takes so much effort but do not drink or compromise your mental state at this time. If you do you will likely fall off the NC horse. I know how you feel. Many of us do. Wishing you strength and healing ( and all of our ex’s as well). Please do not ever regret loving someone.
Jodie
These barely there “relationships” are so full of hot air, fantasy and fakery that they will in fact come to an end in a manner befitting the nature of their existence – ‘not with a bang but a whimper’ (TS Elliot)
Jodie, Don’t get hooked on the ‘No closure argument’, you know at heart we say this to ourselves as a way of rationalising that we should make contact one last time. You don’t need it.
Practically, read over your post again, quite rightly you have said that you want him out of your life repeatedly. Stick to it.
It’s a tough time of year, if you are going to have a drink or two, give someone else your phone or leave it somewhere. Remove the temptation. Better still delete all his contact numbers. This states you mean what you say. I get from your post that you are intent on this. Good for you.
And this is supposed to be my safe place.
LoJ, change your handle if he knows it (if it bothers you that he’d recognise you) that he’s now on the site. You tried all you could with what you knew at the time. Go on with your awesome self and know you are going to be fine. Stay with us.
Thanks so much for your comments. Today has been one of the worst days of my life I just cant get him out of my head and I keep going over and over reasons why he may suddenly just stop talking to me. Its been torture. Ive sat next to my phone and computer all day in hope that he may contact me. Its pathetic. I cannot for the life of me get this man out of my system. It has been going on for a year now and Ive actually began to wonder whether there is something psychologically wrong with me as to why I just cant let go. I dont really have self esteem issues. Every other aspect of my life is great – family, friends and my job. There are also a number of other guys who are currently interested in me and have been asking me on dates. But they dont match up to him. Not even close. How can I use NC as a time to heal myself when I literally cant get him out of my head? The only thing giving me some comfort now is reading the posts on this website – which has been my saviour bless you NML – and knowing Im not the only one out there feeling this pain.
jodie, You aren’t interested in anyone else at this time and that is natural while you are still attached to the man you loved. It would be unfair to anyone else if you did date. IMO there will always be men around for you to date, but if you are emotionally attached it is not a good idea to go out there yet. There is not a set time table for when you are able to do so, however, it is so much healthier to recognise your state than to find someone else to get over your ex and bypass the pain by screwing someone else and throwing yourself into the endorphins of a new relationship. Some people never love again in a couple but have lives that are rich in love in other ways. This may be the case for you. What I see from your correspondence is the waiting by the phone instead of finding other things to do. Please realise that if the man wants to get in touch he will (if you haven’t blocked him) or he may realise that it’s best to move on…whatever that case is, you may not ever know what he is thinking. Nothing is stopping you from calling him except yourself and if that is what it is then you have reasons and those may be what you need to explore and then with the understanding of why you are in NC you can further explore what is going on within you and why you are not moving on with your life emotionally. One year isn’t a long time in the scheme of things. We all do things at our own time. What I think you need to be aware of is why you do what you do. Again, the heart has it’s own time table. Be gentle with yourself.And as you sent him the reply in anger you are regretting it. When we respond in anger we often feel bad later. Perhaps in the future you will sit on your response to a situation that has upset you until calm sets in and you may respond with displeasure in a way that doesn’t make you feel bad later on. I’ve done it too. So sorry you’re going through this…it’s very hard. But, never regret loving someone.
jodie,
NC is your healing time…like NML said in an article, use the time to focus on you. I know it’s hard…we all do….we’ve are dealing with it now. I suggest using this anti-anxiety method in which you allot yourself a certain amount of time per day to think about him. After that time, you can no longer think about him. Or, I used to write letters to the person venting, and never mail them. That way, you have a chance to say what you need to without actually seeing or talking with the person. Try, to use this time for YOU. Today was a little hard for me, but, I went to a museum and had a wonderful time. And you know what…I didn’t think about him at all. The longer you actually cut off contact, the easier it will become. Believe me, I was so wrapped up in the FOOL that I would literally spend my entire work day looking at his pictures, daydreaming about him, looking at his FB and I thought that I would never get him out of my head. It has been 3 weeks that I haven’t seen or talked to him. I did respond to one of his lame ass texts though, but I kept it moving.
Another thing that has helped me is realizing that while I’m sitting around worrying and ruminating about him, he, on the other hand is continuing on with his life. He hasn’t lost any sleep, missed any meals and he’s hanging out with his friends and possibly meeting other women. So, I had to rationalize this by finding things I enjoy to preoccupy myself and focus on regaining my sense of self. You are worth it! You deserve it! Go take a relaxing bath! Call your girls! Have a mani/pedi! Read…Whatever you do, do something GOOD for you! Screw that loser…
YOU CAN DO THIS GIRL!
jodie, I can honestly say that I feel your pain more than you can imagine and I know how difficult it is to miss and love someone you know is no good for you. I know everyone says “time heals” and to some extent it does, but to be honest in my personal opinion I feel like the pain will always be there, at least to some extent, it’s like scar tissue develops and the pain is diminished, but it does become bearable. But more importantly, the one thing that has been my savior on those days that drag into weeks, is a journal that I have kept for such occasions. You see I began to realize that although yes time can help you heal the wounds of getting over someone, it can also be your worst enemy by allowing you to remember only the good times, and forgetting all of the bad times. So with this knowledge from personal experience, I began to write down in a journal each and every horrible, deceitful, vindictive, cruel, evil thing my ex boyfriend ever did to me. I wrote it all down, every last detail, as meaningless as it seemed I forced myself to purge my system of it and get it ALL out. And now, when I find myself missing him and having disillusion fantasies that he still loves me and misses me too, I pull out my handy dandy notebook, lol, and I read, and I read, and I read until I am so angry and disgusted with what the asshole once put me through, and worse yet WHAT I ALLOWED, HIM TO PUT ME THROUGH, well that anger fuels me and strengthens me to hold my head up high and my middle finger up higher! And I begin to realize that I really don’t miss him at all, I only miss the man I though he was. I realize that it’s him who’s pathetic…not me! Someday he may wake up and realize what a good woman he had, but you know what…who cares because when that someday comes, you’re going to be with a man who already knows how valuable you truly are!
Hi Jodie,
I was in the exact same place and close to the exact same time last year. My first BR post was right around this time. I was a former OW and it was the worst 2 years of my life. You haven’t done anything wrong and you aren’t alone, unfortunately. My first few days/weeks/months of NC were just as you describe. He lived rent free in my head. Is all I did is read and post on BR, think of him, go to the gym, think of him, check my cell/email, and think of him. It was like I was coming off a drug. If I had it to do again god forbid, I would recommend downloading Natalie’s books. The NC Rule is exceptionally helpful in the first few days/weeks/months. Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl (FBG) is awesome. I read all about me on the pages of a book, written by an incredibily insightful author, who I’d never met, and lived on the other side of the world. Once I read it, I could never go back. I only wish I didn’t wait 5 months to download it. It took me some time and some major self-reflection before I could focus on me but it really does work. I thought there was something psychological wrong with me too. Maybe being a FBG is a psychological disorder but the only thing that has helped me out of the grave I dug for myself is NC. It hurts. It’s painful. It’s NC. It took me many months, lots of anger, sadness, and then slowly, acceptance (after a year of hard work). He was unavailable, I was unavailable, and I settled for crumbs. In the end, we wanted different things. I want a committed, loving, respectful relationship. He wanted an affair. And no matter how many times I broke NC, it ended up the same: I want a committed, loving, respectful relationship. He wanted an affair. That’s it. End of story! After a year of my stubborness to accept what is is, there is finally hope. The dog can have his bone. I am no longer struggling for it.
You can do it to Jodie. It’ll take some time, some serious work, and you’ve got to focus on YOU, not him. The only way to get him out of your head is to focus on YOU. As I write this, I’m still struggling too. I simply don’t have another year to spend thinking about him. Download Natalie’s books. It’ll be the best holiday gift you ever recieved. Big hug to you and to me.
Thanks again for all your comments. Runnergirl, I literraly cried when reading your post with relief that I am not the only person that has ever felt this rock bottom. This site really and truly has been my saviour and I dont know what I would do without it. Instead of checkin his facebook and twitter I am coming to this site and just reading all the posts, it gives me so much comfort, so thank you.
So Im on day 3 of NC but I am utterly horrified to learn that my best friend has contacted him through facebook, lastnight when she had had a drink, telling him how totally disgusting he is for treating me this way. She phoned me this morning all apologetic and regretful, and while Im grateful that she was looking out for me and had my best intentions at heart, I wish she had never done it as it has made me look sad and needy. Yes I have been crying on her shoulder for the past 2 days but she said that she hated seeing me so hurt and heartbroken and it angered her at how he was treating me. So does this mean that NC is now broken? I still refuse to contact him, even with an apology for my friend’s behaviour.
Hi Jodie,
Stay strong, keep the NC door closed and don’t contact him to apologize for your friend’s behavior. Since your friend apologized to you for contacting him, she hopefully won’t do it again. Don’t worry about appearing sad. You get to have feelings and being sad doesn’t necessarily equate with being needy.
One more suggestion: It would be a good idea to consider blocking and deleting him as soon as possible. Keep the door closed and change the locks. Natalie is right about these guys coming back around just to see if they can “win”. Keep the faith.
I just want to thank you, with every ounce of what’s left of my dignity, self respect, and more importantly what’s left of me. I just permanently ended a relationship with a man who was a narcissistic sociopath. I say permanently because I had ended it several times before but always gave in and unlocked the “proverbial door”, even after a broken nose and countless other types and occurrences of abuse. This was the first time I called the police, pressed charges, and have made no attempts to contact him or reply to any of his attempts to contact me. Today is December 18th, one week before Christmas, and I found myself reminiscing about the few and far between good times and of course acquiring a sickening type of amnesia allowing myself to forget about the bad times. When doing my usual internet search for self-empowering, self-worth quotes to post on my page to help give me the strength to get through this, I came across your page, and I have to tell you…something you said hit me like a ton of bricks. It was almost as if someone smacked me upside the head and a light went on after I read: “They don’t want you; they just want to win. When you remember this, they have less power.” It may sound like the obvious to some people, but for me I truly wanted to “believe” him when he said he loved me and I would make excuses and ignore the obvious signs that he didn’t in fact love me. I guess I needed to hear it, or read it, or have it validated by someone who knows exactly what type of person he is. I feel as though you have somehow set me free, free to finally release myself from this man and now that I know it’s a “game” to him, and that he’s only trying to “win”, well I have the power now, and the key. And you can bet damn well that I will never again unlock that “proverbial door” and let him win. I’m not a victim and it’s about damn time I stop acting like one! Thank you for helping me open my eyes and regain myself!
JSweetz –
Welcome to BR – hope you’ll keep coming back. Sounds like you still have a whole heck of a lot of self-respect, strength and dignity. Glad you are away from an abuser. You’re right that BR helps validate so much of our experience of these guys. You’ll find your experience isn’t unique (these guys don’t have that much imagination) and that lots of women will be able to identify with whatever you want to bring to the conversation.
What is it that these guys actually want to ‘win”? Is it to keep us thinking/obessing/wondering about ‘them’ so that possibly after everything we will always be there for them as an ‘option?”. My AC randomly contacts me on blocked numbers… previous times I’d cave and go back only to have the same thing happen time and time again. The games/abuse/name calling/put downs/ hot and cold behaviour, it was exhausting and pointless not only to me but to everyone around me 🙁 He contacted me again after two months last week on a blocked number, I made the mistake of engaging in some disinterested small talk… I don’t get why he won’t just delete my number and leave me in peace 🙁 Is the best thing to do just to hang up if I hear his voice? I have told him to leave me alone but he doesn’t listen.. he does things on HIS terms…
H, I wouldn’t make this anymore complicated than it actually is.
1) As Grace said, don’t answer numbers you don’t recognise.
2) If you pick up the phone and it’s him, hang up.
3) If he calls every couple of months, then obviously you know that it’s highly likely to be him, hence around that time, batten down your hatches.
4) Stop being curious and making small talk – he’s an asshole.
5) Why would someone who behaves in this way stop listening to you? It’s like politely telling a thief to stop stealing from you and then leaving out your handbag.
6) Stop trying to understand assholes. Unless you are an asshole yourself, you can never understand them. If someone plays games, abuses you, calls you names, puts you down and engages in hot and cold behaviour, what else is left to understand other than the fact that you should run in the opposite direction.
7) If he persists in calling or starts upping the ante, get a restraining order. In England, if you call/text/email someone twice after you have already said to stop calling, it’s breaking the law – The Malicious Communications Act.
Wow, this is so spot on. I am writing this in the middle of the night because I can’t sleep having opened my NC door after the kind, gentle approach. I opened the door a crack and it was enough to send me back into pain and suffering. Thank you, I needed to read this.
It was very difficuilt for me to keep no NC since I have a lot to say ( usually afraid to say it before since I was afraid that he might leave) but last night I sent sms and said whatever I ever wanted to say….he was in shock…so I know now that he will leave me alone…I mean…I told him that I want him to divorce to have babies with me, to spend incoming holidays with me….he run faster that Usain Bolt…:)…still running probably….
InLove
Brilliant. That’s why OWs suffer in silence. They know if they REALLY COMMUNICATED, the man would be gone, gone, gone.
Of course…It is good to dream but sometimes you have to face with the reality…So, if you you speak up, he will be gone…like a wind…so let’s speak and not to be afraid of the outcome….
Exactly.
Well, I’ve been reading the Baggage Reclaim site since June when my mate first starting acting up in a 5 year relationship drama. Repeated break ups after his anger outburst whenever I would attempt to establish my boundaries led me to finally and really do the NC thing. I have to say that I’m confused, but I shouldn’t be; I’m questioning myself, and I shouldn’t. This relationship has caused me so much turmoil. Every article that Natalie writes speaks to me and how stupid I’ve been. I always would question the “what ifs”: what if he meets another girl and acts right, maybe I am nagging him too much about marriage? All those episodes would play out. On Saturday, another episode ensued. I’m moving stuff I’m selling downstairs – three reasonably heavy bags, and he doesn’t lift a finger because he’s mad. This episode culminates with what eventually is my finale – he walks out of the house while I am in the shower and because he doesn’t have a key, he leaves the door unlocked. He doesn’t say anything. Just leaves. What a jerk! We don’t talk for the rest of that day, and then Sunday morning, he calls me four times. I don’t answer. He sends a text. Pulls me in. We talk on yesterday, and I discover he’s not going to ever be for me. This morning, I ignore his call. Decide that after reading the “Cat and Mouse” game that Natalie wrote about, that was us, and that he is just logging “Wins” in his column. I really regret having wasted 5 years with this one. I’d love to see writings about how to tell if it’s love or are you just be stupid because you want someone to love you. Anywhoo….I’m moving on. Changing my phone number, and since he’s totally petrified of my parents (he’s 42) I don’t expect him to come looking. Thanks Natalie for all your support by way of your articles. You are dead on!!! I’m reading the daily NC emails now. Before, I was just getting them. So thankful for this site.
I dated an assclown for 5 weeks; he was 10 years younger; we had 3 dates; he was a very nice charming EUM – I really enjoyed being around him, lots of chemistry and was getting attached quickly, but red flags started going off after the 2nd date – it was so odd, but my instincts were telling me he’s shady – he started off with an ambush texting me 24/7 (never phone calls) showing lots of attention, but also sending many “stay in your own lane” signals; causing me confusion and anxiety; over time he revealed that he cheated on first wife and back and forth with her over 15 years, threw 2nd wife out, he thought marriage/relationships overrated, only wanted sex with benefits arrangement – I decided to end it with him because I realized I can’t waste my time on such silliness, he’s not the one for me and I need to protect the good life I have; after about 2 weeks I was getting past it and he sent me a text to say Hi, but I didn’t respond. It hasn’t been easy to forget him, because the attraction was strong, but I know now I made the best decision. Also, I should have kicked him to the curb after the first date, so lesson to me to heed the warning signs in the future.
I don’t understand why people (SOME) can’t take NO for an answer or except that the relationship is over and the other person has moved on .I’m speaking just from my perspective my heart felt belief speaking for a man that’s confident in self and who has been in a few long term relationships meaning at least a year or more they all have ended differently of course and I’m still friends with some of the women,but will never be in a relationship again with them for the simple reason I don’t back track PERIOD,because it’s NEVER the same again I tried to go back and rekindle a past relationship and it was a DISASTER,so no never again,but getting back on point and I see many men say this if I can’t have her back I don’t know what I’m going to do and it’s VERY SICKNING to be honest to me,I always live with the credo hey if you don’t want me I don’t want you and that’s just the way it is with me,so ladies if you have some sick man who can’t or won’t let go I’m sorry it’s crazy to me and I will never understand that.
What a fantastic post! I wish this had been available to me 3 years ago, would have saved me a whole lot of heartache. What you wrote summed up the ex MM so well. At the time I felt like I had no strength to resist his attempts at contact ,and he did a brilliant job of making me feel so guilty as he knew just which buttons to press each time(I’m thinking of killing myself , missing you so much etc).
I decide I wanted to be NC back in March, yet he only stopped emailing and texting 3 months ago (finally got sick of being ignored). I’m so pleased I stuck to my guns and did not fall back into old patterns with him. My self esteem has improved so much since no longer being in contact with him and I’m altogether a happier person. Am also looking forward to Xmas for the first time in years as will no longer be the sad OW whilst he was doing his dutiful husband routine.
Thanks so much Natalie for all the amazing posts – they have helped me so much over the past 2 years and I’m very grateful for that. To anyone else out there struggling with being NC, I’d say hang in there – it can be done even though it aint alway easy!
“But as some of you have discovered, after the breakup or during No Contact, your ex may periodically, or even often, try to get your attention.” So true Nat!!! After a fun and wonderful birthday spent with friends that I much needed, the inevitable came. The birthday wish from the EUMM came not by text as the usual MO, I had stopped responding to his lame attempts, but by email. Yes, I was feeling happy, sentimental and had had a few drinks.
I broke my no contact. I replied thanking him for the bday wishes and then that’s when the feelings came rushing back as if the floodgates had opened. I also said I needed to know if i had been used for closure from our past and asked why had he just stopped texting me since we’d been texting everyday for a year until November. (I had sent a long email last month after he did another disappearing act, saying I didn’t want to continue communication because I knew he didn’t care for me the way I did for him). He replied and said he stopped texting daily in Nov. since I had said I couldn’t communicate anymore. He also said he “didn’t do anything for closure, I don’t need closure.”
I miss him, even though he doesn’t deserve it and has never been sensitive to my thoughts or feelings for him. I realize he’s a complete and total AC. Now I just feel like some stupid, desperate school girl pining away for him…which is also how he must see me too! I’m so embarrassed and mad at myself for replying to his message and seeming so desperate like this. He must get a kick out of me making such an effort for him. I must be the biggest ego stroke he’s ever had. I see the stupidity in all this. I’m ready to regain my self esteem and no longer feel desperate to talk to or hear from him. I see now that this situation has nothing to do with him, it has to do with me. ME not wanting to be rejected by him again, ME trying to get validation I wasn’t just used for sex and ego strokes, ME wanting to not look needy with a low self esteem to him. He’s not worthy of any of this attention, my affections, etc. Wish I’d never put myself into this predicament years ago. I can’t wait for my second appt with my counselor this week. I am ready to change!! Just wish it didn’t hurt so much.
Complicated-
Right there with you! The first time I broke NC, he didn’t respond back…until he needed something, then the sweet little “thanks cutie” comments sucked me back in….I foolishly thought there was a valid excuse he hadn’t answered my calls the day or so before. He let me believe that too (again, to get what he needed from me in the short term), he was never one to offer up the truth if it didn’t benefit him. I took his contact and went farther, actually went to see him, only to catch him with one of his many back up plans at the house I had just moved out of. I was angry, but didn’t cry. But..i ACTUALLY said things like, “Are you over me, am i that replaceable, did you ever really love me?” This is the worst, “is she better than me?” Literally it was like I had no control over what was coming out of my mouth. And figuratively I was grasping at gaining even a scrap of control of him in that moment. when i knew i had NONE. My head was saying, SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP! He asked me to leave and shut the door on me to return to her. Basically the equivlant of a hang up on the phone. Wow, talk about humiliation and self destruction. But I guess all in all i didnt beat myself up too much about it. I played with fire and got burned. But unfortunetely didn’t stop there. He made the next contact a week after that happened, to apologize and CONTINUE to lie about why that woman was there. But this one, was the most humiliating and what has kept me on STRICT NC and honestly, these other gals aren’t kidding here when they say, yes, the pain around grieving the loss, it hurts like hell, not gonna lie. But remembering that i control NOT being put back in the humilation hot seat, that’s what’s keeping me going right now anyway. It stings that I didn’t just leave him hanging the last time he contacted me, left him with the ego blow instead of me. But, I can’t change that now, all I can do is mean business with NC and not worry about what he’s feeling or doing. I know I’m a good person no matter how badly he treated me, or I even treated myself really. I feel stong from moment to moment, then I feel the weakest I’ve ever felt, i work on all of this everyday. I’m in counseling now too, and it’s about the only thing i look forward to these days! That, and reading BR!
He also had the nerve to say he would like to go back to our daily texting. I didn’t reply to this because it would basically mean me doing the texting with him replying when he felt like it. In hindsight, I should’ve emailed him back saying “Yes, you go ahead and send me texts and i’ll go ahead and forward them onto your wife.” As runner girl once said, this would send him running, but I was in such shock from him suggesting this and already embarrassed from what I had sent as a response to his email, that I didn’t say anything. Such mind f$##ery, its ridiculous.
Hey Complicated,
I’m really glad you had a nice b-day. See, change is possible!
As for the slip off the NC wagon, gently dust yourself off and get back on the wagon. This jerk is doing exactly what Nat is talking about in this article and what mine did too. Mine did the “Here’s Johnny” thing because he knew I was still receptive just like Natalie says. I kept avoiding changing the lock and taking back the key because I didn’t want to accept the fact that it was over. Being EU myself, I couldn’t commit to the finality. I made the commitment to me when his wife put a tail on us, hacked his email, and got cell phone records. Talk about embarrassing and humiliating! It was time to change the locks. Don’t let it get to that point Complicated. You can make a big change now: Block and delete and seal the door shut. He can only do the mind f$##ery if you are receptive to it. Wishing you the best.
Hi Runnergirl,
Thanks for the comments. They’re great as always. I got back on the NC wagon today and didn’t fall off…taking it one day at a time. I’ve been doing the same thing with regards to refusing to believe the finality of it all; although, I know it is the right choice to make. I just hate feeling as if he views me as desperate/needy now because everyone who knows me, knows this is certainly not me. If I want something, I work for it and obtain it on my own without having to rely on others. Probably because I never had anyone else to rely on other than myself. I always viewed myself as a ‘strong woman’. However with him, I seem to always end up feeling weak. I guess he’s always been my Kryptonite. Anyways, I realize I shouldn’t even care what he thinks, but for some stupid reason I do and that’s just being honest. Humiliated is the PERFECT word for how I feel right now. Humiliated that I broke NC and Humiliated that I asked all those “Did you sleep with me for closure?” and “Why did you stop texting me?” questions. As I had mentioned above, he said he stopped texting because I asked him too, but that’s not what happened. He continued to send random texts on sports banter and update FB statuses to things only I would understand to get my attention. Guess he forgot about all that and is so good at turning things around on me. If you don’t mind me asking, how did you get over the feeling of being humiliated after everything you went through?
Complicated, not to rain on your parade but I think there’s a dose of perspective and reality needed here because it’s important not to 1) Future Fake yourself (see the latest post), 2) inadvertently Future Fake others particularly here at BR, 3) keep pressing the Reset Button, 4) be in faux No Contact (Runnergirl will tell you I warned her of the perils of this when I said “Molly, you’re in danger girl” from Ghost, and 5) don’t bullshit yourself.
Think before you act and think before you speak/write because you are eroding your own credibility.
“I just hate feeling as if he views me as desperate/needy now because everyone who knows me, knows this is certainly not me.”
This is just not true Complicated and I say this to you, because if you’re actually being serious about therapy, changing, being honest, being authentic, don’t bullshit. You have two Complicated’s when there should be one – the public Complicated appears to have her shit together, works for it without relying on others and the on the down low Complicated has been texting and sleeping with a married man and relying on him and texts – TEXTS! Jaysus!
You have been behaving in a desperate and needy manner with this man, right up until you demanded to know whether he slept with you for closure and asked why he stopped texting. You’ve spent four years behaving in a desperate and needy manner with him plus you have a history that extends back 20 years. In fact, you doing all of this by TEXT is only compounding his perception of you further.
I’ll tell you how you get over the feeling of being humiliated – you stop humiliating yourself and the next time you think about sending a lazy text and reigniting the crumb of an ember that represents this ‘relationship’, remember this feeling today and take yourself as far away as possible from it. I and the many others who have rooted for you here keep telling you that you’re better than this, you agree, and then you comply with this less than situation. You don’t need to wait for an appointment with a therapist to get serious – be serious now, not for us, not for the therapist, but for you. Your therapist can only do part of this process – the majority is down to you.
NML
Abso – effin – lutely.
We all need to own our shite. I was waiting around for texts too from a MM. At some point I had to recognise that despite my brains, beauty, good job, fantastic friends and family I was being needy and desperate, and humiliating myself. It didn’t matter what the outside persona was. It didn’t even matter what he thought. What really mattered was my continuing engagement in this behaviour. Which was all 100% DOWN TO ME.
The waiting will slowly kill you – waiting for him, waiting for your feelings to change, waiting for the therapist, waiting to feel better, waiting for it to “sink in”, waiting for a text, waiting for an email, waiting for closure., waiting for the next self-help book. By all means, if this happened yesterday, or even last month I’d advocate patience. But when it becomes months or years – do something now!
In the end, the brush with the MM lasted six months. It’s too long but not as bad as it could have been. I did what I had to do before I felt ready. You never feel ready. There’s never the perfect time. You make yourself do it.
And I was sick of it too. If you’re not sick of it, you’ve become too used to it or you’re lying to yourself. It’s not because there’s anything valuable going on. Look at what is really there.
Complicated,
“He also had the nerve to say he would like to go back to our daily texting.”
So there’s a man out there who is married to someone else but would like to offer you daily texts – whoopee-doo! What woman could resist? – Be careful you don’t get trampled in the rush! 🙂
Am glad you are now seeing this a little more for what it actually is – text messages. He’ll be happy to continue to take the piss out of you if you are up for it – that’s what’s on offer. Don’t be up for it. Not anymore.
Hi Fearless,
I know, right…Who wouldn’t want an EUMM to send them texts everyday about sports banter and the weather? It’s not like he’d be texting me how pretty I was or how much he loves me and wants to be with me or anything. Sometimes (ok, alot of times), I look back and think what was it that drew me to this man? His looks, NOPE. His success, NOPE. His professed undying love for me, NOPE. He has NONE of these things to offer. I believe it was the whole “unavailability” status that made him so appealing to me (as suggested by my counselor and makes total sense). This is the exact thing I grew up with…trying to win over an EU alcoholic father and try to get him to love me and receive validation that I was more important. Eventually all this will sink in and the lightbulb flicker of reality will become a permanent ray of light.
Sigh.
When my EUM and I ‘decided to be friends’ it was like nothing had changed, just the “official status” went from unlabelled to ‘friend’, and I wondered really, what the hell was the difference?
Some of these guys are like live twitter feed / facebook feed / texting news service. They’ll tell you almost anything/everything up to date in their lives (I did this/that/went here/am planning to do that) and it made me feel close but the reality was he was more like a live 24/7 chat channel.
I have NEVER EVER had someone ever send me sooo many texts. I’ve never experienced that, so I thought “oh, they must be sooo interested in me!”
Most people when they’re not interested in me- the calling/texting stops. Not this guy!!
tiredofa
if he’s texting he’s not interested.
when people are interested they’ll make time in their calendar and turn up in person.
yeah. radical.
But I know you know this, don’t get side-tracked!
I hear that sigh Tired of Assanova, joining you..sigh!
My ex used texting almost like a stream of consciousness..long explanation of feelings,justifications, tirades,words of love. Phew!
When I said, Nah, too lazy, you need to be face to face to say such things, it was like I had pressed an ejector button and taken him off the planet. He is probably orbiting the earth as I speak,mobile in hand…
Grace:
“if he’s texting he’s not interested.
when people are interested they’ll make time in their calendar and turn up in person.
yeah. radical.”
Yeah – radical right enough. What is it with all this texting, like it means something worth talking about?!
I have often said on BR that I think I get it now and then I got it some more, but I am going to say it again. I think I GET it now! And know what it is that I get? The ex arse EUM *did not love me did not want to be with me and did not give very much of a fig about me at all in the big scheme of things. I get that he was manipulative and selfish and an arse basically*
That is what I get about him. I also get w hole lot more about me too that I didn’t get before. And I am not getting it only now because it was cleverly concealed or because it was soooo complicated. It was ridiculously simple and as plain as day. I get it now because I have been away from him for so long that I have stopped rationalising, minimising and denying so I get now what was actually very, very obvious all along – I just did not want to get it.
So all you BR ladies pining over, begging for and analysing his latest crumb or his latest text – here’s the bog basic sad and sorry fact of the matter: the guy doesn’t actually give much of a fig about *you*. If he did, you’d know all about it. As runnergirl would say, we just need to suck it up! (or get sucked under!). That’s where I’m at anyway. But maybe I have it easy because my ex EUM arse doesn’t try to bust my doors in every other week – he doesn’t do his own humiliation, he was happy enough with mine! Hey, but I am not that woman anymore – and it feels so good. Thank you Natalie!
“It’s not like he’d be texting me how pretty I was or how much he loves me and wants to be with me or anything.”
No, it’s not. And anyway the guy who actually meant any of that would NOT be texting it to you – he’d be DOING it. So texting any of that would not make this any better – it would just make him a bigger tosser.
Last time I had any dealing with my ex EUM I was told how pretty I was. Did it make any difference? Nope. A guy telling you how pretty you are means eff all in the big scheme of things. Stop putting so much value on what amounts to a big load of nothing.
Oh my, oh my, and o vey. It is so time for me to suck it up and walk it off. I think everything I learned, I learned playing softball. You can’t text when you are at the plate. The pitcher can’t text the pitch and the batter can’t text a hit. When I screwed up at short or second, I had to walk it off. I couldn’t text it in differently. The day I hung up my cleats was when I took a bad hop at second resulting in the worst shiner of my life. At 52, shiners aren’t pretty. It was a sign. Don’t play ball with guys who mean business even if you are playing in a D-League. I thought we where there to have fun. He thought he was there to win.
These guys seem to think that they no longer have to show up in person as long as they text about something that happened to them today and we are sent reeling because they sent a text? What about showing up at the plate?
I’ve hung up my cleats. At some point, it is just too humilating to continue to play. You shoulda seen my shiner! It was hugely symbolic of what I was going through with the exMM. Walk it off Runner!
fearless
I got those texts too from the MM, about how beautiful I am (as if I didn’t know already ha ha), how I should have married him, how he would always love me. Didn’t make me feel any better. It was still TEXTSfrom a MM.
And if I had married him – he’d have been sexting one of his exes while I was the one putting the child to bed. No thanks. There’s a reason we didn’t work out first time round and it’s not because he loved me so much!
Please help me. I have just broke NC after 4 days because I cannot get it out of my head why he has suddenly stopped speaking to me completely. This time last week we were discussing me moving in with him. Now I am in complete limbo not knowing what the heck Ive done wrong. To say Im heartbroken is an understatement. I am totally and utterly in pieces. I cant eat. I cant sleep. I cant concentrate on my job. Im in so much pain that at this moment in time I would literally do anything, ANYTHING, to hear his voice again, for him to tell me that he still loves me. So I sent him a message and lo and behold he hasnt replied. I just text saying that I miss him and whatever it is thats wrong I am very sad. I just want to cry and cry. I cant see a way out of this hole that Im in. I know everyone keeps saying NC will work but I feel that the longer I go without contact the more and more it plays on my mind. I just want to know what Ive done. Ive never felt so low before. Please help me .
Jodie
whatever it is that’s wrong it’s all very, very wrong -that’s all you need to know. Go do something else. You need to realise that your value is not dictated by this guy or anyone else. You should read Nat’s posts on validating yourself. You seem to need this man’s approval to make you feel worth something more than a piece of crap. Are you not worth something way more than that whether he thinks so or not? Don’t you have your worth independently of him? Who annointed him with all this power? Is he God? I don’t think so.
JOdie,
I know EXACLTY what you are going through. Fearless is right too, READ EVERYTHING ON Natalie’s site. Honestly, the only thing that has gotten me through the moments and days you are describing…this site. Every blog, not only will it empower you, it highlights links to other blogs that are gonna blow you away, like they were written for you and your situation. (dont mean to assume you aren’t doing all of this already!) Those moments, when you want to run to HIM for comfort (because when you were in a relationship, this a valid human need from your partner!) please know that he is the SOURCE of this pain right now, if anything, he may only offer further pain, or at best, a SHORT TERM RELIEF and that is NOT REAL! Him not answering your texts, that’s him doing two things: 1) increasing your pain because, and correct me if I’m off, but it serves to feel like MORE rejection when he doesn’t respond and 2) in a weird way it’s HELPING you, now you don’t have to deal with his crap, he can’t possibly offer you even an IOTA of comfort! I know these are just words, and your pain feels very very strong. But I am learning more day by day and it’s not instant, but just a few weeks ago I wasn’t in this place. I lost 15 lbs in the last two months because of my break up. It still hurts for me everyday…bad. But please know you aren’t alone, don’t give in you will only feel worse from humiliation once he does what EUs and ACs do! Blow hot and cold, use and abuse, play you, etc etc! Natalie know’s what she’s talking about. Stay on BR Jodie! OH! and “i just want to know what I’ve done.” You know the answer girl, you’ve done NOTHING wrong. You’re just expecting things from someone who is incapable of giving you what you want. If he was worried about your pain, you wouldn’t be in pain over him right now. That being said , remember you are an individual seperate from him, and you are worth loving yourself! Wish you the best.
Trust the “No Contact Rule”. Don’t stray from it..EVER. I made the mistake yet again. I was with a man 4 years that is exactly what is described as “Assclown, Mr.Unavailable”. I was stunned to see in writing HIM. He has put me through so much. First he wasn’t ready for a relationship, then he was, then he’s not, over and over. I walk away he chases me and wants me back, and a few times I chased him to have him back. Yet the entire time I KNEW it was unhealthy for me and wanted to walk away. But I couldn’t, because I love him. It’s craziness. He lied to me from day one, about everything, prison, drugs, several other women, loosing his job, etc. When I found out the truth, I was shell shocked, felt like I was living on another planet, how could I ME get taken in by this con man. I walked, he chased me for 8 months. I blocked all calls, and texts, emails. He started showing up at my door, this went on for months. I gave in this past summer. Oh everything was fine and great. He was the perfect boyfriend, talking moving in together, marriage, things he NEVER talked about before. He would cry and tell me how sorry he was for treating me so badly. And I deserved to be treated with respect and love. I fell for it 100%. He found a job, and then his “pattern” began peeking through. He was putting distance between us, calls became infrequent, when questioned he would become defensive, pick fights. Same story different day. He tells me last Sunday 12-18-11 (week before Christmas) he doesn’t want to be in a relationship anymore, surprise, surprise. But he wants to spend Christmas together still. First I was so heart broke I said yes. One minute I feel ok I’ll go have one last holiday (which he always made my holidays miserable) part on good terms, then I feel…NO I’m not showing up. I’m not a stupid women, I’ve never even been in a relationship like this before. I’ve only read about stories of women getting sucked in by men like this. I was single after a 22 year marriage that didn’t have issues like this, we just stopped loving each other. Ladies PLEASE slap some sense into me. Am I so out of touch with reality, and this is what men have become?
Dublin
at risk of being this evening’s blogger hogger, no it is where your relationshit with this particular man is right now and it’s not going to get any better. You got rid of him once. You’ve sucked. You’ve seen. Same pish, different pants. Tell him to eff off and stay eff offed. And have a peaceful and better Christmas, better new year and better rest of your life, free of this misery-making excuse of a man.
Fearless:
Well I asked to have some sense slapped into me and you sure did it. No sugar coating with you. Your right it is the relationship I had with this man. THANK YOU for your brutal response, rather refreshing.
Dublin,
my posts on here generally reflect the tack I’m taking with myself at any given time – right now I am in no more bullshit mode with me as I have come to some very clear realisations about my own misery-making excuse of an ex EUM arse man and what he was all about and how I found every excuse under the sun to let him treat me like an option for a years. It’s depressing but I am calling a spade a spade every time he crosses my mind, so am being pretty tough with myself too – I need to be as I am really a bit of a sap! It gets better the longer you stick with NC, cos all I can think now is – what the eff was I thinking?! Jaysus! (As Nat would say).
I sorry your going through so much heartache. We can’t get our hearts to get on board with our heads when it comes to some men. Don’t be hard on yourself, we stumble, we get back up. I do understand the “What the eff was I thinking” like he would ever change, and be the great guy we tricked our minds into believing. Now that you know you have been his option is that giving you strength? Like a mental machete whacking through wasted love, and loyalty. I think I’m doing that with myself now. I won’t lie I still have thoughts of seeing him at Christmas. But then I think why, he is a waste of human skin, he has nothing good to offer me. He shit all over me. I let him get away with it. And I’m embarrassed, at my age (53) to be going through this. My family/friends think I am no longer involved with him when I found out about his past and ended it more than 8 months ago. I’m ashamed to even tell them I took him back and he shit all over me again. I’m glad I found this site, you and the ladies here are giving me strength. I hope you have a good holiday. Stay strong Fearless.
Dublin,
He sounds like a messed up man who has serious commitment issues. And little to no integrity. A EUM/AC for sure. The push pull crap, I’ve dealt with that too with my EUM guy “friend,” what a piss taker. Often flirty but no follow through.The push/pull mess that they do SUCKS. Why? Because we’re normal people who want normal, healthy relationships & they do not. Everything has to be on their terms or you get nothing at all. Crumbs they give.They want their cake & to eat it too. Selfish & inconsiderate are the adjectives that describe them best. But their charm is blinding at first so you can’t see the negative things or it doesn’t seem to bother you so much. Until one day you wake up & say to hell with it all or come to the point where you just decide to not expect or hope for more than an aquaintance sort of relationship w/them (even if you had more before). At least that’s the point I’m at. Mine has been emotionally/physically draining for me, and only now do I feel like I’m moving into a genuinely healthy place. I can only imagine how you must feel. You need/deserve better. You will find better. Focus on what’s good for u. Spending Christmas with him, would be good for him but prob not for you. Why? B/c right now you want more & he does not. And it would be rewarding his crappy behavior. Exercise self care. Sending good thoughts your way.
IDB:
Thank You for your response. Yes you are right, 100% right. I am drained in every way possible. I feel numb, like I have no energy to even talk to him, or deal with him at this point. I’m not even angry, hurt, disappointed at this point. When he told me a week before xmas he wanted out again it hurt like hell, but now I’m just confused. Who does that to someone, tell them how much they love them and a week later they want out at xmas. I’m also confused as to HOW a person can pretend to be someone they are not so well, for so long. And how blind I was, yes he is charming that is for sure. I have never been in a relationship like this before, I never met a man like him before. I had zero clue about his past, none. Didn’t know he was in prison for drugs, didn’t know he had several other women. And what stunned me was his car, and truck were in other women’s names, and one had been paying some of his rent because he lost his job, which he never told me about. He was basically prostituting himself the last several months we were together..with his friends wife!! It was all by accident that I found out. I was at a family event, my cousin had a new girlfriend with him. We started talking, she KNEW him, she use to live across the street from him before I met him. When she told me he was in prison for 6 years for DUI’S and drugs. I asked a friend that is a cop to find out about him, I gave car/truck plate numbers also. I was not prepared for everything I was told. I confronted him, and walked. I should have stayed walking. Huge mistake to think a man like him could have any integrity. But for me to go back to him after I found out everything is what I need to work on myself about. Why would I go back after everything I found out? I must be mentally ill.
He was the first man I had a relationship with after a 22 year marriage that had no cheating, lying, abuse we just grew apart. I met this man 3 years after my divorce.
I have to say finding this site has really given me strength. Reading Natalie’s posts are very insightful, and spot on.
Dublin
Intelligence or stupidity has nothing to do with it. The smartest most beautiful woman can have rocky self esteem that allows her to engage with crappy behaviour. Long after he’s revealed what he really is. There are women way stupider than me (smart girls!) who wouldn’t stand for half the nonsense I’ve put up with.
When someone subjects you to the charm offensive it’s easy to be taken in by it when you’re feeling love starved. Charm isn’t love, it isn’t commitment, it isn’t friendship. It’s seduction.
Don’t spend Christmas with him, tell him to take a hike. I was going to spend Christmas home alone, quite looking forward to it but in the end a couple at church invited me to their big family Christmas get-together. Good things magically turn up when you free yourself of the idiots.
Without even knowing it you are shutting down all your options by engaging with him. Shut the door, keep it closed.
“I was going to spend Christmas home alone, quite looking forward to it but in the end a couple at church invited me to their big family Christmas get-together.”
Have a love filled and peaceful Christmas, Grace. Thanks for all your words of wisdom on BR this year; you have helped me through my troubles more than you could ever know. God bless.
fearless
Thank you my dear.
I got another invitation tonight, and one for boxing day.
I’m WAY less lonely than when I had a “boyfriend”.
A man does not equal company, especially when he’s one of those twerps who hides from you until Christmas is over.
Sure it’s taken me a while to get here, I can be such a slow learner. But it’s all worth it.
Grace:
Thank you for your response. Again another smart reply to my post. And yes you are correct, 100% correct. I never thought of myself as love starved, or lacking in self esteem. To quote you “When someone subjects you to the charm offensive it’s easy to be taken in by it when you’re feeling love starved. Charm isn’t love, it isn’t commitment, it isn’t friendship. It’s seduction.” That says it all. I am not spending xmas with him. I have not returned his calls. I’m sure he’ll figure it out. Again thank you!!
Thank you so much for your answers. It means so much that people are taking the time to read and reply to my post in a time when I am feeling nothing but rejection and heartache. I have not heard back from him and very much doubt I will however I am really embaressed that I text him saying I miss him. Should I message again just to say that I didnt mean it or I was drunk or something? If I leave it he might think of me being sad and moping around (which I am). I would just love to send one more saying I didnt mean it and then perhaps say something nasty about him (i.e. his lack of sexual ability) just to hurt him, then break off all contact.
Jodie, if you really are reading the replies, you’ll know that saying you want to text *again* off the back of saying that you embarrassed yourself by texting already and that you don’t want to humiliate yourself further, but you also want to say you didn’t mean it (not true and it’ll be obvious) and that you were drunk (you’ve texted him stuff sober so that’s going to also look silly) and then telling the same person you were attention seeking from that he’s crap in the sack or that his willy is a cocktail sausage or whatever, is going to make you look 1) worse 2) juvenile and 3) like he’s right to behave as he does.
NML youre right, you are all right, and I know Im not the only one going through this but I am sat here in tears and have been for the past 2 days. It honestly feels like Im going cold turkey off some drug or something, as dramatic as that sounds. Its like all I want is for him to say or do something and everything will be alright again. Its like I need a hit. I know this sounds bizarre but its the nearest I can describe what Im feeling. Im in pieces. Everyone says take one day at a time. But what If Im here this time next week feeling exactly the same? Or two weeks after that? Or in 6 months time still going over and over in my head what Ive done wrong? How can I just walk away from it, put it out of my mind? I know its possible, but at the moment it is so very very hard.
Jodie
you sent him a text and told him you miss him. He read it. He gets it. He is not answering you. That’s your answer. You don’t like it so you’re desperately trying to think of ways to get a different answer out of him and if he doesn’t give you the answer you want…well you’ll just insult him instead? (then go begging for forgiveness when he ignores your insult?)
I think you should stop trying to control and manipulate this guy into giving you some attention – into making everything “alright for you” and into making you feel good about yourself. That is your job, not his. He is a separate human being; whatever he is, he is entitled to do what he wants and feel what he feels. It is hard to take rejection but you need to accept that you cannot control him and that he does not feel the same for you and about you as you do about him. He does not depend on you to make him feel ‘good’ about himself (and neither he should). He is fine. Leave him alone. Deal with what is making you crave validation from another person like this. He can’t fix that problem cos it’s not about him, it’s about you – and only you can fix it – for yourself.
Jodie, I have to be real with you – it’s just been two days. If you told me you’d been constantly in pieces for 2 months or even 2 years, I think your questions would be more credible.
I know a woman who was in a terrible accident – angry and in pain and as desperate as she was to be up and walking again, she didn’t expect to after 2 days and knew that she had to go through a process. They thought it might take close to a year and she was up and about after a few months.
Another friend was raped and had to fake her death to survive the mad man. She too didn’t expect life to go back to normal after 2 days.
It’s important that you recognise that none of the behaviour you’re engaging in is attractive so you’re actually shooting yourself in the foot. Every text, every desperate attempt doesn’t convey love – it says that you lack self-control and don’t respect yourself.
For a jackass like him, you are inadvertently legitimising his reasoning behind his warped actions. Don’t give him that satisfaction.
The fact is, you’re not coming off drugs – you’re coming off text messaging. I cut contact with the man sitting two desks away from me as have many others – it’s horrible initially but then, so was the relationship in the end along with my crap self-esteem.
You are attempting to control his agenda – I would make it a priority to see a professional within the next day or so, and get the help you need. If you’re based in the UK, also note that sending more than two unwanted messages, especially if you sent the insulting text, is breaking the law. Now there’s a sobering thought. He isn’t worth even another fingernails worth of embarrassment. Stop.
Jodie,Natalie talks about No Contact and it’s difficulties and rewards all over her blog. AND you need to buy “The No Contact Rule” Ebook if you can. I believe that a huge first step to NC working for you is knowing why you are doing it, and then doing it for the right reasons. If you are doing it to get a reaction from him, it’s destructive and it’s not really NC. From the sounds of it you DO know something is wrong here, I just don’t think you REALLY believe right now that it’s the right decision or why you’re doing it or what you want to accomplish. Read Nat’s blog, “The Right Decision doesn’t always feel good.” One important thing to remember about No Contact, and a break up in general, and Natalie talks about this, is that if you look at your pain today, and think “how am I going to get through today, this week, this month, this year?” you’re not allowing yourself to grieve the loss and you are putting dangerous pressure on yourself to be over everything NOW. It doesn’t work that way. Today it hurts, yes. Trust me, I’ve been on the floor crying thinking I wasn’t going to ever feel differently. But then I have to tell myself, I know this is hard now, but I will feel better. If you imagine that you will be in pain just like today in two months, or six months, you’re not giving yourself the credit you deserve that you WILL be better, you WILL feel better. As Fearless says too, looking at why you need the validation from this person is key. That takes your focus off of him. If you don’t address this, my experience is that this is bound to happen again, it will just be with another EUM. I’m in counseling now to explore that exact thing. I can do NOTHING about him. Also take him off the pedestal. I would go so far as to say try not to dwell too much on “he’s fine, it’s not his job to fix me, I need to let him live his life as he sees fit.” I get that that is ALL true, but I feel like it still gives him the power in your mind, and to me it’s almost like keeping him on a pedestal still, one that says “I’M the one who can’t get it together, not him.” Does that make sense? Tell yourself those things once, twice, three times maybe if they help. But then let go and start thinking about instead what makes YOU happy, what YOU can fix, why YOU are just fine. Don’t even let HIM and why he’s so OK with everything be on your mind.
jodie
Texting is crap, if you really want to get his attention – turn up on his doorstep, crying, begging for him to speak to you and offering sex. I did this. He then kicked me out afterwards. I remember cos it was raining.
Was I going to take no for an answer? NO WAY. After a long range campaign on my part he married me.
I divorced him within a year.
Sometimes it’s just not meant to be. All the crying in the world does not mean you should get back with him. Cry because he’s hurt you, but see it for what it is – a signal that he’s hurt you, is hurting you, and will hurt you again if you give him a chance. Stay away from him. Here’s a rule of thumb from a friends mother, who has three beautiful daughters:
“A bad man isn’t worth crying over and a good man doesn’t make you cry”.
I couldn’t resist asking – was it a fur coat and no knickers job?
Showing up somewhere was the firm line for me with my ex with the girlfriend. I just couldn’t bring myself to but it was a lot to do with remembering practically grovelling when the ex before him talked about breaking up. After me getting pretty upset, he decided to give us another try (I now know he had the Other Woman by then) and then proceeded to remind me about it a few weeks later. He made a few quips and I could see the look on his face – the woman he thought he couldn’t even get or keep had been desperate. I remember that pitiful look like it was yesterday – his ass was grass the moment I twigged it.
“I couldn’t resist asking – was it a fur coat and no knickers job?”
I am CRYING laughing right now!! Just so everyone knows they’re not the only one who’s ever acted pathetic, I once considered donning a fur coat and fancy knickers (I love British-isms. So much.) to surprise a jackass that I was dating upon his arrival at my house. I thought it would be very Melrose Place sexy at first and then the more I thought about it….I didn’t want to ruin the mink. I really had my priorities straight, obviously.
Jodie, no texting this guy! If you get the urge, I want you to write down a list with a minimum of six reasons why he is special enough to embarass yourself over. If you get past ONE, I will be shocked. You’re better than this.
NML
Pretty much but I am anti-fur myself.
How could I stay married to him? He was a constant reminder of how low I had sunk. And when all the drama had died down I realised he wasn’t worth what I had put myself through (to be fair, no-one is. He’s just a man!) Then being in a not-meant-to-be-marriage catapulted me into another self-sabotaging crap relationship (with the abusive AC). So that small step of humiliation really was a slippery slope.
Still, years down the line, I hope he got his act together and is doing well. I just don’t need to know about it.
Another I like is: ‘never waste your time on a man who doesn’t waste his time on you’.
Dear Natalie, Grace, Natasha, and as always Fearless,
Thank you for sharing how low you’ll go to get the guy. I can’t top your stories nor to I want to but it is truly amazing how we can sink into such darkness and despair. I sunk pretty low too. My pitt of darkness mirrors yours. Jodie, Bri, Complicated and anybody, I sure hope you are still reading these heartfelt words from what are truly amazing women who have turned their lives around. If they can do it, we can do it too. You aren’t alone, thanks to Natalie. BAR the door, seal it shut, change the locks. I’m almost getting out of the zone of despair and humilation. Love the quote Grace. Love the comment Natalie: “his ass was grass the moment I twigged it”. They really hate when their ass is just another ass. Worse, he hated the fact I finally recognized he was one giant ass. I remember the look too. His jig was up.
So my AC aka FOOL showed up at my place a few nights ago. I had a couple of drinks and responded to his texts. I told him not to come, but, five minutes later he was at my door. He said he wanted to talk to me. I let him in for about 30 mins, my girlfriends were here, so I asked him to leave.
His effort was insincere. He just wanted to see what I was up to to keep tabs on me. And, of course brag about his possible new job. He threw a few mental jabs and insults which I just smh to, because he’s so effin predictable. Haven’t heard from him since. So, I know he only came by to check to see if I was still “available.”
Oh d., this guy just makes me say “YICK.” Next time he turns up, just don’t open the door. It goes to show you what a lack of a loss this fool is – I mean, who turns up at their ex’s house to insult them and make sure they’re still ‘available’? It’s too bad you didn’t have that invoice printed up for him 😉
i read this blog all day. NML is brutally honest. the moment you send a message you are conveying all the wrong messages. an AC, or anyone you are breaking up with will not perceive an “i miss you” message as that, they will see desperation and desperate ain’t cute. what is more appealing, is conveying the message that you care about yourself more, and that you will no longer entertain him and you are choosing to move on.
one of the most helpful posts i’ve read here was about “when you give too much” or something like that. i learned that when you are constantly the giver in a relationship, the receiver doesn’t think you’re nice, or in love with them, they see someone who doesn’t love themselves enough. i always thought that if i wanted to show a man how much i cared that me bringing them gifts, cooking, helping them get their shit/life together, being their couch therapist, etc would be an indicator of my love through actions. but, what i was really showing was that i cared more for them than for myself. and, time and time again, i was left feeling drained and couldn’t understand why my loving actions weren’t met with praise, or them fulfilling my needs. that, was a BIG eye opener for me!
Thanks once again for your comments. I havent sent the text and I wont. I suppose it was a moment of desperation. I just hate the not knowing. Why hes done this to me. Everything was fine. There was no hint of him not wanting to be with me anymore. He literally disappeared overnight. Can anyone understand how frustrating that feels? I mean, if there had been problems and we’d argued then yeah I would get why he would just up and leave. But there wasnt. In fact, we were getting on more than ever. He had just been promoted. We were discussing a holiday at easter. And now nothing. Its only natural to want to know what youve done wrong.
I dont know why I seek this validation from him. In all honesty, like Ive said before, every other aspect of my life is fine. I have alot of interest from other guys too at the moment, however Im not planning on dating again just yet. I have lots of friends and a loving family. I dont need or crave male attention. I just know that when I met him blew me away. I was crazily in love with him and he has broken my heart. I know I will eventually get over this, I have been in love before with an AC who dumped me for someone else and that took me about 2 years to fully get over it. But I was alot younger then. Im 28 now, an age where I should be getting ready to settle down, not nurse a broken heart!
Jodie
“He literally disappeared overnight. Can anyone understand how frustrating that feels?”
Yes. I do understand. So do many of us on BR – that is why many of us are here, Jodie. First time my ex EUM did this I was floored, same as you. I didn’t leave it at that as I should have done, so I got used to it. It became the norm – he came and then he went, a veritable little willo-the-wisp.
Read Nat’s posts on how to spot Mr Unavailable – disappearing without a word, especially when things appear to be “going well”, is what they do.
“Can anyone understand how frustrating that feels? ”
Oh Jodie, we can ALL understand how that feels! The fact that he pulled a disappearing act shows that a relationship with him was a non-starter. I was in a very similar situation and I went through the, “What did I DO?!” phase as well. It’s natural and it will pass. The bottom line is, short of someone being abusive, there is no good excuse for disappearing from a relationship. When he inevitably turns up again, don’t respond. I can tell you from experience that the disappearing act is rarely (and by rarely, I mean just about never) a one-off. In my case, the guy also disappeared during the holidays, so I know how awful it feels. The best advice I can give is to enjoy the company of your family and friends and know that there is WAY better out there for you!
it absolutely is frusertating and confusing (to put it lightly) when someone just disappears. We want to make sense out of it, that is totally normal. I wanted to lend you advice based on what i’ve been through. This last one wasn’t so much just a straight up disappearing act, but i can’t lie, my dating past it riddled with crappy scenarios (and now why i want to change!) but they all start to sort of add up to the same thing, i’m not getting what I want and i’m allowing it to happen. I think that’s part of what everyone on BR talks about as having our last straw/ephiphany moments. For me anyway, adding up all these crappy scenarios, maybe that’s helped me in this last crappy scenario. Trust me i still ask WHY again! WHY did this man who I thought loved me have me move in, only to be a total passive aggressive AC with a completely different agenda behind my back!!!??? ARGH!! (but thanks to BR I have a lot more answers) Jodie, if this guy comes back around and has some awesome excuse as to why he didn’t call or answer (and for us, the excuse doesn’t even have to be awesome!) please don’t listen. There ARE other ways to get a hold of someone, I’m so SICK of men not even bothering to MEMORIZE my number? “oh it’s just saved in my phone.” THAT is a red flag of a lazy lazy unaccountable man! B to the S!!!! Not to mention, you might not want to be involved with a guy who lets say, can’t pay his cell phone bill, “loses” his phone a lot, doesn’t answer his phone for two days, was in jail (trust me i’ve heard them all). The men who this stuff “happens” to, are not worth your time! Wouldn’t you find another way to contact this guy lets say if something happened and you didn’t have your phone? Doubtful you would leave him hanging and wondering.
jodie
you didn’t do anything wrong. he would be the same with any girl.
i think maybe you do crave male attention – two ACs/EUMs would indicate so. it doesn’t mean there is something wrong with you, you just need to get yourself to a happy place so you make better decisions and don’t need to look outside of yourself for approval.
You’re swept up by the promises and the seduction, rather than looking for something solid.
28 is still very young.
Yeah, 28 is so young I think back on relationships that age and younger and think, we didn’t know what the hell we were doing, we were just so young.
Also, age is so weirdly relative. i had a boyfriend who was 21 when I was 23. He used to say, ‘Maybe you’re just too OLD for me!” And I would feel like an ancient hag. That is very funny to me now.
Jodie, hard and crazy mad as it may seem he left because you were getting on well..because plans might have been getting discussed, because there may have been a move forward. This is what emotionally unavailable people do. He would have being asked to step up, man up. He can’t do that. You cannot help him do that. He is and remains separate to you.
Actually, the more you attempt to do so, the more he will abdicate the situ.Sorry but he needs to get it for himself and most of them don’t.
You are young. Believe me,take time,invest in you,what makes you happy..make yourself curious or interested in something else.
Don’t mope. See people who make you think and laugh. See the future as stretching out before you. Leave him be.
I read this blog and apply what I read to friends, relatives, acquaintances, and work-colleagues. It helps. A lot of the people around me, and who have been around me, are, or have always been, ACs.
I want to let you know that I am out, at the other side. Pretty much 100%. It took a while, and I don’t know fully how it happened, but I do know that reading this blog + seeing how others react to my child’s existence in this world have shown me a lot of human behavior, why people do what they do, and how badly people can act. It is true that the birth of a child represents a rebirth of your own life, in many ways. I am thankful to God that this little guy is in my life. I call him “Angel Baby” all of the time.
I thank you all, esp. Grace, Fearless, Magnolia, Natasha, and Allison for your advice and insights!
People, key is getting out and meeting people of all kinds in all kinds of different venues.
I can not wait for the New Year to come. For tomorrow to come.
Good night, and Happy Holidays!
Hey
Thank you all for your replies. I read every one over and over and I cant be more grateful for your advice. Especially NCC – it really made me think when you said what would I do and how would I get hold of him if I had lost my own phone? And I know that I would of done anything in my power to get hold of him. He cant do the same for me and that speaks for itself. This morning I woke up and instead of feeling that awful sadness where I didnt even want to get out of bed, I felt happier and more clear headed, ready to get on with the day. I feel stronger somehow. Ive deleted him from facebook, and deleted his number and all the texts that he had sent me. There is no trace of him at all in my life. I dont think I would of been able to do that without finding this site and reading the advice, so thank you xxxx
This blog is so helpful. I have so much to learn.
Sadness,
There is a ton to learn and there is no better place than BR to learn it. Order Natalie’s book Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl as soon as you can. Natalie is brilliant and this blog attracts totally awesome people. Just bolt and seal shut the NC door for now. Read BR religiously, read Natalie’s books and within a few months of NC, you’ll have a very different perspective. There will be no going back.
You are worth a few months, right? Invest a few months in yourself instead of a him. It’s amazing what a few months can do.
BR totally changed my life. I started slowly, reluctantly, and resisted every step of the way. Then there was a line: No going back. Keep reading BR.
Hey ladies, I’ve been NC for 6 weeks with my ex MM and there’s been ups and downs but I’m still hanging on in there. I don’t know what I expected to feel at this stage but if I’m truly honest with myself – I still love him. There, I’ve said it. I’ve gone through the stages of feeling very upset, then I’ve gone through a phase of feeling absolutely furious and angry with him, and here I am….I still love him!???
We have several mutual friends and I know it’s inevitable that at some point I’m going to see him or be somewhere that he is.
I’m doing all I can to maintain no contact – there’s an event arranged for the end of Feb (through mutual friends) and I’ve had to come up with an excuse as to why I can’t go as I don’t want to see him. What I’m utterly terrified of is however, that when the time comes that I do see him (and there’s no avoiding it unless I dump several friends and social circles which I had before he and I got together) is that all of the feelings are still there, and that they come flooding back!?
Is anyone else feeling the same??
xxx
Fresh start,
I felt the same. Congratulations on 6 weeks NC. Good for you and that is a great start. For me, 6 weeks of NC was major progress and I struggled every day. However as I discovered, 6 weeks is still early in the grieving process, at least it was for me. I still thought I loved him too but after many more months and tons of posts on BR, I realized I mostly loved the illusion of him I had created in my mind. I flipped between sadness, anger, and denial for many, many months grieving the loss of the illusion. You really do have to keep the door closed and sealed shut as Nat says. I learned the hard way. One small crack and he slipped right back in and I was spinning in the rabbit hole before I knew what hit me.
Oddly after 6 months of NC, I’m going to have to see the married assclown at an event in mid-Feb. I’m hoping he attends with his wife! Of course, he won’t. But I will now see him for what he is, a married man who lies to his wife and lied to me as well. Thank you Natalie and BR.
Always remember Fresh start, he has a WIFE and it isn’t you: Topline. Another thing about sealing the door shut, if he cheated with you, he could cheat on you. GLUE your door shut ASAP.
One week ago I left my EUM. He hasn’t contacted me ‘yet,’ but we’ve done this dance so many times, I know it’s just a matter of time. When he pulled away this time, something happened in my head and I said, “that’s it, I’m done.” It hurt like hell but then I did something. I had bought a book called Instant Self Hypnosis, to help me stop smoking. It worked – so then I thought why not create a script to stop me from missing my EUM. Guess what it worked. I had to do it 7-8 times but part of my script is that my feelings are gone. I feel completely indifferent. Hypnosis is a great tool – it’s kind of like you tell your sub-conscious mind what to do and it obeys…. it worked for me – if you feel like the pain is so great and you need it to stop because it’s wrecking havoc in your life – give it a shot.
Hey runnergirlno1,
Thank you, thank you, thank you – you’re words are so powerful to me at this moment and this is exactly what I need to hear, and remind myself of!
I think I almost felt as though I was failing at the NC thing given that I felt like only what can be described as a pinbal,l going from love, to hurt, to anger to sadness and back to love, and that it meant I wasn’t succeeding and that something wasn’t working. I guess I need to realise that the situation didn’t happen overnight and therefore will not disappear overnight either but that progress is being made and it will get easier.
I’m lucky that I have some awesome friends and family who I’ve been able to talk to and they have been a huge strength to me, and I know that one day I’ll just look back at the whole episode and think ‘what was I thinking’!!
Thank you again, and well done to you for having such strength to get to where you are! It’s inspiring! I hope the event in Feb goes well, and all I’d say to your ex MM is “watch out buddy, mamma’s got a brand new bag…..and attitude to match” ;0)
xxx
This really reasonated with me today. I’m doing my damndest to make NC happen, and my streaks are getting longer, but I recently “relapsed.” I was feeling very cool and confident and thought I would be in control of the exchange. I was wrong. No matter that I told him all about himself, and used a lot of 4 letter words– it made all the old feelings of helplessness and “love” for this person who has repeatedly emotionally abused, cheated on, degraded and humiliated me come back. I asked him, what is the purpose of contacting me over and over like this? He said, I don’t believe that you really want me to leave you alone.
And why should he? I’ve responded to his BS for so long, saying I want it to end, and then talking to him anyway, that my words carry no meaning. The key to good writing, they say, is “Show, don’t tell.”
As NC has gone on, and I have more time in between my thoughts and his actions, (that is, when I don’t kneejerk react and give him what he wants), I have realized what an UNsophisticated manipulator he really is. There is no intelligence or elegance in his manipulation, he truly is trying every single key he can. It started with insults, to talking about a new girl to make me jealous, to I love you let’s get back together. How does one progress through all those feelings in a few days time? That’s how a crazy person acts! If you are feeling discouraged in NC, just give yourself a month or so of distance (surely you’ve suffered longer than that already) and get some perspective on how truly silly and like spoiled children these men are acting.
Just wanted to say…..THANK YOU!!! Finally a sight after searching since the last go around w/ ex husband that I can tell will help support my NC decision. My divorce was final 8 mths ago but we still commenced a yo yo relationship. We have no children together, but he has used my son’s attachment to him as a ‘power struggle’ w/ me. This no longer worked so he has continued to move down the line of bogus reasons for this n that.
Wow just wow…I knew others would be going through the same as me but to finally actually find a place where ‘we’ can blog is sooo…..refreshing. So comfortable enough that I’m typing this at work and trying not to let the tears roll! thank you