When you really want to believe something, I’ve discovered that you’ll look for any opportunity to legitimise the belief, even when there’s plenty of evidence to suggest that what you believe isn’t absolutely or even a lot true. You’ll know this is you if you’ve experienced any of the following:
You read something in a newspaper/magazine/website, etc., that taps into your fears and beliefs and then go into a tailspin.
‘Oh no! The Daily Fail has an article with statistics that suggest that there are no good people to date/that I don’t look how a woman should/I’ve failed as a parent if I breathe/formula feed/have a glass of wine/have a c-section. This makes me… lose hope that I’ll meet someone/feel like I’m not good enough because I don’t look airbrushed/believe that I’m failing at motherhood.’
Somebody you don’t know tells another stranger, who tells someone else, who tells someone you do know about this terrible dating experience they had. You go into anxious mode.
‘I just don’t think I can face dating anymore. I mean, look at what happened to that woman that I heard about from so-and-so who told so-and-so who told so-and-so! I’m better off alone or with my current assclown.’
You think it’s your fault that someone treated you poorly, has code amber and red behaviour, or even disappeared, so you look for ‘resources’ that will put the blame squarely at your door.
This is one of those situations I hear about too often. ‘I was reading a site that said it was all my fault that they disappeared! I feel so awful! If I had done X/Y/Z they wouldn’t have done it.’
You break up because you’re unhappy with the relationship. You’re incompatible, and you may even have a long list of complaints about them and refer to them as an ‘assclown’ or ‘asshole’, but then you hear they’ve moved on.
‘They’re off being a better person in a better relationship having the time of their life while muggins here is miserable. It was me why they didn’t treat me well, wasn’t it? It’s because I wasn’t good enough.‘
There’s no point holding onto a belief unless it positively serves you.
It’s of benefit for you to recognise that not everybody can be ‘the one’ or be suitable for a relationship. In fact, people aren’t always what they seem and sometimes it takes a little time for things to fully reveal themselves. People unfold. Relationships unfold. This means that instead of bowling in with both eyes closed, you use dating as a discovery phase, are aware of what unhealthy behaviour and situations look like, and are willing to pay attention.
What’s not of benefit for you to believe is that the world is a predatory place full of people that want to screw you over and break your heart. This will not only cause you to be fearful and distrusting but viewing the world through a distorted lens means that you’re never really in anything because you’re expecting the worst to happen. You’re also more likely to gravitate to people that reflect your beliefs.
Unfortunately, when you do have unhealthy and unrealistic beliefs, you actually do believe that there’s a benefit to believing the worst. You get to avoid risking yourself and all the perceived ‘dangers’. You get to say that it’s everyone and everything else’s fault. Or, you say it’s your own fault and make believing the worst your ‘punishment’.
But if you’re unhappy believing the worst and spend your days ruminating on how you’d like things to be different but it’s just a shame they can’t be because of whatever you believe, might as well you go out and try. Try better than you did the last time.
I find that people fall into two traps: not believing in their capabilities, which limits their opportunities, or conversely, thinking that they have superhuman powers and the ability to change people with their feelings and expectations.
Whatever you believe is really tied to your capabilities in that context. For example, people who believe that relationships are hard, most people cheat, and that relationships ultimately fail, believe that their relationships are hard. They believe that their partners will cheat, and they don’t believe they can maintain a relationship.
You have no control over others. And let’s face it, ‘others’ prove you wrong every single day.
So why can’t you [prove you wrong]? Or should I be asking, why won’t you?
Oddly, many of the people who don’t believe in themselves, who essentially have given up or have come to believe that the world is a shady place, haven’t found it too hard to believe in someone they shouldn’t. These same people will protest about how hard it is to love themselves.
- How can it be so hard to love you when you were willing to love someone else who may not even have returned your affections?
- How can it be so hard to believe in you when you believed in someone else in spite of the fact that they repeatedly let you down?
Get behind you. Get behind your choices, your decisions, and who you are as a person.
Don’t be one of those easily influenced people that end up being inauthentic because you’re too busy trying to be what you think others want out of you or you don’t know how to be you because you’ve lost your way.
Stop looking for the easy way out of stretching yourself.
You’re telling yourself the worst and then devoting your life to discovering ‘evidence’ to support your thinking. Wouldn’t it be better to devote your life to challenging the worst so that you can have better experiences?
You can read articles in the media without becoming the story. They have their own agenda. If you’re losing your mind over articles you read, it’s a sign that you are not personally secure and are not grounded in your values. Consciously or not, you’re inadvertently looking for an escape out of the path of being authentic and accountable. You might be gravitating to media that appears to provide evidence of your fears.
You can also hear stories from others about their dating experiences without locking yourself in the house or experiencing great anxiety. If you’re planning to have better experiences, to love and listen to you, to be more alert, that anxiety can be greatly reduced. Use the anxiety and being triggered by these stories to address the fear(s) that’s coming up for you.
If you plan for failure, your anxiety will increase.
Don’t overfeed worry and anxiety by letting you continue to imagine terrible outcomes. Notice when you’re doing this as soon as you can, and hop off the train of thought. Don’t delude yourself by looking for reasons to blame yourself for other people’s crappy behaviour. Recognise that while you can provide a fertile ground for shadiness, they’re only doing what they’re already predisposed to do.
Your ex is not on house arrest until you decide that you’re in a ‘good enough’ situation for them to move on. Them having a good time has nothing to do with you. The sooner you stop thinking the worst–that they’re having a good time to highlight how you’re not good enough–is the sooner you can move forward and have a good time in your own life. You only have to be pissed off about your ex enjoying themselves if you’re expecting not to ever enjoy yourself again.
There’s no benefit to believing the worst about you other than avoiding vulnerability in exchange for playing it safe in situations that cater to your beliefs. The worst that can happen isn’t actually often what you envision it to be; it’s thinking the worst and then getting to a certain point and regretting that you didn’t treat yourself better and take healthier chances. It’s never too late to start thinking better of you. Start now with your actions and choices. Let them inform your thinking, not the outdated and unloving beliefs.
Your thoughts?
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I dunno Natalie…so much of what you say is cognitive psychology, but as someone who is SO confused about my marriage, what I think OTHERS are having that I am denied because of chronic and multiple mental disorders, life IS a perpetual struggle. If you are someone who suffers from Clinical Depression, as I am, it can be hard to think well of yourself and often, while we can forgive others, we are are own harshest critics, especially if we are people who have never really felt friends have been there for me, which is my situation. Alienating oneself is just a protective defence against more disappointment, hurt and frustration and in some ways is valid for the sufferer. People don’t like to be near people with depression and like me, they become like rats leaving a sinking ship – because they don’t want the burden of your problems on top of theirs too. That is just life, or is it depressive realism, because the only benefit I have found from being depressed is that it DOES make you realistic.
However, to end on a positive note, I still really love your work! Sometimes I think the Queen should be giving you some special kind of Honour for service to women!
Regards
G
ella
I’ve had depression and I’ve had family members go through depression. It’s not true that people avoid the depressed (well some might but it’s not universal). it’s absolutely the other way round. the depressed avoid other people. We have a depressed member at church. We call her and she doesn’t answer. We turn up and she hides behind the curtains. Who’s avoiding who?
My sister-in-law in her depression thought her two little girls were better off without her and went back to her parents in another country. We pretty much moved heaven and earth to bring her home. She was simply wrong. She’s doing well now, better than ever I think. Depression is highly treatable these days.
What people think when they are depressed is, in my opinion, not necessarily the truth. I used to think that I was simply being realistic. But when I was waking up at 4am worrying about doing paperwork I realised I had to take myself in hand.
Depression does not have to be lifelong. I haven’t had an episode in nearly three years. I don’t know if I will or won’t again, but for sure I never thought I’d have three years without it. I feel confident that I won’t. And that’s the key. If I believe I’m okay then … I AM okay.
Wow, well put Ella, and while the bulk of people are not depressed in the true sense of the word, it’s easy to sink into situational depression when things in our intimate lives turn bad. And you put it so well in saying we turn away from potential friends and romantic boy/girlfriends to avoid engaging, to avoid possible hurt. I myself have, and because I’m older and have so many other cultural issues centering around age and dating to deal with, sometimes it’s overwhelming and makes even the most eligible among us take pause!
But Nat seems to be saying we have to recognize our potential and not believe the worst. What helps me in the end is that there aren’t any dress rehearsals- especially when you are over forty, wasting time worrying about what someone said, or some dating horror story about a friend of a friend just serves to kill the desire. But if we really feel we want to be in a healthy relationship, we can’t sit back and say poor me. Every situation is a learning opportunity, and Lord knows, I have learned much!
Ella my heart goes out to you but I disagree depression does not make you realistic only the opposite. Depression clouds your judgement, you see only the dark side and blame yourself when in fact you had no control over it. Trying to climb out of the black hole of depression is a monumental task in itself and for those who suffer its unimagineable at times. There is only one truth that applies to every one of us….We can only be responsible for ourselves and our actions no one else’s. I wish you courage in your journey.
…..”You’re telling yourself the worst and then devoting your life to discovering ‘evidence’ to support your thinking” and “Your ex is not on house arrest until you decide that you’re in a good enough situation for them to move on”. Nat that those lines made me smile and even giggle for that has been me in the past but I’m proud to say it is The Past.
It is so hard for the person who gets dumped, it shakes our core, we question everything and inevitably blame ourselves because the one we should blame has left so there is no one else around to blame but oursleves. I mean ya gotta have someone to blame and here we sit like sitting ducks thinking its all our fault.
Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda…I call them the 3 evil step-sisters. I spent waaay to much time disecting everything about our relationship only to find out it didn’t change a thing but I learned two very important things….He was still gone and the world didn’t come to an end as I once predicted it would because he had left.
ella,
things will get better. keep reaching out to others, confiding in those you trust. maybe switch up your exercise routine and/or adding certain foods to your diet might help. spending more time outdoors in the sunshine might help too. droz.com has some good nutrition tips. hope this helps.
*HUGS*
Ella
I don’t know a great deal about depression – I remember having it and how awful it was – but I wanted to reply. Partly because it sounds so difficult and I’m really sorry that you’re having to go through that and partly because I’m a bit paranoid that my post (below) might read as some sort of indirect response to you – insofar as I have a different perspective on the article – which it isn’t.
Depression is, imo, an awful thing to live with and it’s so difficult because it interferes so negatively with your sense of who you are and how you interact with people. I could really relate to what you said about alienating yourself – even now, when I’m unhappy (although not depressed I don’t think) I find it an incredible barrier to relating to people, and yet when I try to overcome the barrier and explain I feel very guilty about burdening them. Besides which, you’re right – most people can’t cope with it – although as a caveat I’d say that there’s a world of difference between saying “I don’t feel qualified or able to deal with x, y and z aspects of your illness” and treating you with a lack of care, honesty and respect. Nobody deserves that, no matter what the circumstances.
I don’t really know enough about a) depression or b) you and your circumstances to comment on your response to the article, but I wanted to extend some sympathy and to say that I really hope that you find some answers and happiness.
Hi Ella,
Your note reminded me of growing up with my depressed father, whose favorite saying was, “I’m not pessimistic; I’m realistic.” I fled from his ‘realism’ at seventeen but I still had been raised by all his emotional habits.
I hear you. It’s so hard to ‘believe’ your way out of depression, particularly because depression interferes with you before you even have the chance to formulate your thoughts. But I don’t think Natalie is wrong about the belief thing, even when it comes to depression. Even if it takes years of cognitive work to get out of depressive habits, how would you ever put in the effort to try if you don’t believe it can work?
I hear you that it can be a tough slog to maintain your beliefs in the face of what seems like evidence to the contrary. But that is why we tell ourselves all those hero stories; heroes beset by hostility from others and self-doubt; they always have to change their beliefs in order to overcome. If there weren’t a few billion people needing to be reminded everyday to have faith in themselves, the movie industry would be kaput.
Take heart: lots of us here have been where you are and some in very dark moments – and many of us have emerged and enjoy long periods depression-free. After living for 30 years depressed without knowing life could be different, my first periods of “no depression” were short, and then I’d slip back into the familiar and have to claw my way out again. Now, like Grace, the “undepressed” periods are years rather than days, and I am not as frightened as I used to be when I recognize that I have gone back to a down zone. I pull up and out a lot quicker, having done it many times before, and can do it again.
Hey ella
I understand what you are saying too. Depression runs in my family – a lot of it is how we are taught to deal with life…I was shown to cave and be the victim, its taking time reprogramming that. I know what you mean about people not wanting to be around you – I even had a friend tell me I needed new friends! And I get it – people don’t want to hear down stuff all the time which has made me listen to myself and try and find moments of gratitude. I have backed away from my ‘friends’, I have learnt not to show them so much of myself and I have learned I need to self support – learn and know the things that make me feel good and use those things when I get down, challenge my thoughts (and this site is REALLY helping to re-educate). It is hard Ella but you WILL be ok – keep going!! Its a ride and its finding a way of smoothing out those bumps – hope I’m making sense ……arg! People are here for you
Hey Ella and all. 🙂
Your post struck me a lot.
I have suffered from depression since sixteen years old following the sudden death of one of my parents. It has affected almost all of my romantic relationships. I will tell you though that the right person will not run from it. I believe this entirely.
I got together with my first serious boyfriend only 6 days following discharge from a psych hospital. We are broken up now (we drifted apart) but lasted almost a decade and never once allowed me to feel like a burden to him. He always encouraged me (would even drive me to counselling and psych appointments) and always tried to understand my postition.
So I have a lot of faith that there are men out there who are patient and kind and who don’t run away when things aren’t good and when you are not yourself.
I have also had quite the oppostie experience with a partner. I told him about my depression in the very early days of our relationship. Naiively I believed that he would be the same as my first boyfriend but instead he used the info to exploit, I personally feel. He used to tease me about my illness. He accused me of bringing him down, said he couldn’t deal with me and when my depression reached fever pitch near the end of our relationship (mainly due to his treatment of me) he avoided me like I had a deadly infectious disease. Never had I felt so betrayed. At first I blamed me and my depression (maybe if I was happier/had a more normal childhood/didn’t cry as much) and wondered if that’s why he was treating me badly and didn’t love me.
Now I realise that it was all about him. Just because I was depressed did allow my ex partner any excuses to treat me like trash.
I sometimes wonder will my depression will prevent me from finding love but only sometimes. I know there are people out there who are accepting and compassionate. I also know that myself, I would never run away from anyone over something like mental illness. Never.
Build up your defenses sure (you can do this by listening to your gut and noting code amber and reds) but please keep your heart open.
I had to look up clinical depression to be more certain of what you were speaking of. I hope that you have a therapist. The multiple matters of the mental issues along with confusion regarding your marriage point to things that need to be addressed with concrete therapy and potentially treated with meds. It is to be expected that you are not a very hopeful and contented person with the issues you live with; however, how we think and what we do has proven to affect our lives. The messages you send yourself are programming you and affecting how you feel no matter what else is going on in your life. Natalie is simply telling us that if a belief isn’t serving us that it isn’t wise to hold onto it. That isn’t unreality it is a fact. I hope you are receiving assistance for your condition and that things improve for you.
Hi Ella, I’m also suffering from clinical depression and PTSD and it’s gotten very very bad with all the perimenopausal symptoms I’m having. I’ve been depressed my whole life. I exercise, go to the gym and then cry in the shower, or go to yoga and start crying there, try to go out, but I have had most of my friends turn away from me because of the depression. ‘You’re STILL depressed?’ like it’s something I can turn off and on. I am back on with my EU man because I just can’t stand to be alone and don’t know how to manage it and still function, I’ve tried and had to take off work, it wasn’t good.
So I know what you are saying and just wanted to say that I get it and am in the same boat,
Hugs to you!
Low-la
Ella….
My God,Your post resignated with me more than you know.
I too have suffered from Mental illness all my life.
It seemed like Blaming myself,not feeling good about me has always been there.I also have come to relalize that it seems I can cope and live when I am single and alone,but the SECOND I meet someone its like my mind goes into a tailspin,and The insecurity,low self worth etc takes over….
I am not using this asa an excuse,more a realization of me and how things are…
Nat,I was one of those people who was googling websites on why he dissapeared,Thank God you set me straight,No matter what or who I am,which by the way is a loving,caring,beautiful person,with a bit of quirkiness,NOONE ever deserves that shit!!
I also found this website googling why the AC broke up with me. The ironic thing : he works for google 🙂
“If you’re planning to have better experiences, to love and listen to you, to be more alert, that anxiety can be greatly reduced.”
After spending the past year ruminating on my breakup, and figuring out how I contributed to where I am today (fast forwarded and future faked into becoming a mother…and then being quickly abandoned), I am finally becoming more confident of the above. I am loving and listening to myself, being more alert; basically learning to trust myself and my instincts all over again. Having never experienced manipulation by a narcissist, I was truly unprepared for what took place. But….I can now thank my narcissist ex, as he opened my eyes to how willing I WAS to letting someone else redefine my reality and bear total responsibility for any relationship problems. I was a tasty meal for any abusive predator that had an angelic smile. It took this long to heal and to be sure…it’s not over. But, I have gotten to the point where I’m no longer fearful. I am finally considering dating again, because I trust that I will be able to look out for myself. I can go in openminded but not so openminded that I’ll ignore that little voice that tells me it doesn’t feel the way it should. Instead of forging ahead when I’m feeling “I don’t know about him”, I’ll take a step back and not hold on for dear life and chalk it up to my own “trust issues”. I’ve NEVER had trouble trusting people…that is something my narc-ex used to get me to back down when I was on to him. If anything, I was too trusting. Thanks to the education of this website…I feel armed with knowledge and personal power…to the point that I feel I could go on a thousand dates and NEVER worry that some guy will take me down. It just won’t happen because now I know who I am and what my boundaries are. More importantly, I know I’m OK with being alone and that NO guy is going to come along and make me believe that he is necessary to make my life worthwhile. Been there done that. Not to say I might get fooled or my heart broken again…but at least I know I will live through it and I know I will opt out long before it becomes painful and abusive. One chance is all they get now, just one and that is all they should get because I’m that precious 😉
Tasha your words really resonate with me. Thank you. Its like reading what I hope will be my entry in 6 months time! I too was willing to allow my exes to define me and then I got resentful of the control they had over me. They didn’t have to do what they did but I know my part in it now and know that I have to work on what is my reality, my values, my sense of okayness before I can date again. Thanks for giving hope
Wow, did I need to read that! I just got home from visiting family and my mother and sister are, errrrrr, concerned about my refusal to date. When they asked me why, I couldn’t come up with one answer that didn’t boil down to “If I meet someone, they’ll just drop me as soon as something better comes along/It will never work out”, etc. I like to think I’m no longer carrying around any negative beliefs, but since I’m on the BS Diet, I have to woman up and admit that I am! Intellectually and logically, I know that the negative stuff is mallarky, but I’m failing on really taking that to heart and acting on it. I had to laugh at the part about mooning over articles about a disappearing dude being down to something I did – when I first went NC, I shed actual tears over one of those. Like literal, actual waterworks. Cringing at that makes me doubly glad I found this blog!
Natasha, Just to say that you seem pretty ace – funny, smart, warm and kind-hearted. Focus on fostering those traits in everything you do and how you talk to yourself about stuff, including men. I have a feeling – K, from another part of the world with no special powers – that you’re going to meet a very loyal, lovely guy one day. But you do have to be open to meeting him. Not now, necessarily. But when you’re feeling more energetic and confident, see how you go. I assure you, you’ll weed out the ones who would or could leave you for someone else or wear you down well before it happens. You’ll recognise who’s what this time. Til then, keep building your confidence up in non-dating arenas.
Elle, I believe you DO have special powers – you are such a lovely person, I think you qualify for SuperWoman status 🙂 You are right on that I have to be open for it and I think it’s going to take some time and patience. It’s kind of funny, because until they pressed the issue, I had no idea I was being so negative – total “DOH.” moment! Thank you for your kind and incredibly helpful words girl, you are the best-est!
Sometimes, I think that we have to have this “negative” time period for our souls to heal. Part of the process. With time, it will subside. That’s how it was for me. I think in terms of “broken” or emotional maturity. And also the law of attraction. If I am to attract a healthy man or an emotionally mature man, I have to be as well. I believe today that there are healthy men out there and Natalie has given us tools to find them. I feel I have my act together enough to recognize one AND BE ATTRACTED TO ONE (and recognize an AC/EU as well … and trust me, they don’t find me NEARLY AS APPEALING AS THEY USED TO). And as Tasha said, we may get our hearts broken, but it won’t be by a break-up over text message, ’cause he screwed our sister, or because he just disappeared. it will be because it wasn’t a match. Delivered in a decent manner (by either party) and nobody is going to die. (Of course, my telephone isn’t ringing off the hook with offers and as you’ll note with all my posts, I’m not really “out there” looking too hard … but I’m optimistic. Its a start. Hee hee!!)
Lo J, thank you so much for sharing – that was really, really helpful for me to read 🙂 Plus, the “’cause he screwed our sister” and “nobody is going to die” parts made me choke on my tea haha! You are so right. I think if I managed to get to the point where I got into a relationship with someone decent and it didn’t work out I wouldn’t be nearly as upset as I was over my exes, because I wouldn’t be feeling used/duped/like a damn fool in general. I highly doubt the assclowns of the world are finding me alluring anymore either – hallelujah!
I was serious. 😉
Natasha….WOW! We def were sister in another lifetime! My mom and sister (along with all my cousins, aunts and friends) are asking me the same thing. I’ll be visiting my parents for the Christmas holidays in their country in the Caribbean and I already know ALL their friends will as me the same (both my other siblings are married and I’m the youngest, still single! =0). I’ve had to repeat myself on how I am on a hiatus and I’m ok with that. But I agree with you that I need to also own up to my own fears of why dating is terrifying to me. I haven’t had a good experience (except my most current ex up until a time!…a whole other story), but I know that in order for me to move forward, I need to really step out of my comfort zone.
One of my friends recently told me to see the stereotypical guy I date and then go off and date someone completely the opposite of that so I can break the AC cycle. I agree with her as we do get comfortable with that we know and are familiar with. But it doesn’t make it any less scary. Yet one thing I have learned in this heartbreaking year is that if not now, when???
So what ifd my ex is dating an ex friend? I dumped HIM for a reason and it was because he was NO GOOD to me…and I have to own up to that. So what if my ex friend thinks I’m the psycho ex girlfriend (according to her blog posts and other people’s comments), I know what kind of person I am and I stick to my guns when it comes to loyalty and honesty. So what is we effed up with some guys…isn’t that part of growing and learning in life? And so what if we’re alone for the time being? That doesn’t mean we’re lonely, just means we’re taking our times to figure ourselves out and really narrow down what we truly want, since we already know what we DON’T!
One of the things that Nat has def left me with is learning to let go…and I am starting to truly embrace that. We should just let it all go and if that means a good cry once in a while, go ahead. But know that at the end of the day…we are amazing women and we kick ass no matter what!
Love it Karina 🙂 I am definitely well ensconced in my non-dating comfort zone and I will have to kick my own arse out of it at some point! I burst out laughing when you mentioned that your parents’ friends will be asking you about your love life – I recently had a good friend of my father’s that I haven’t seen in awhile say, “When are you getting married?” immediately after, “Hello.” You’re very right my dear, it is definitely all part of the journey!
Ella – I do not want to put myself forward as an expert on depression but I have seen so many people get no where fast with the mainstream approaches to it. These techniques may be familiar to you or may not. I think someone who suffers from depression really does have a hard time with the whole cognitive therapy approach because it only addresses the self talk side of things and not the physiological problems – these two things are like the chicken and the egg!
Try using a high quality fish oil supplement like Wholemega.
Chromium Picolinate has been shown to be a very powerful anti depressant.
Vitamin D3 in high doses (5000 I.U./day if your white – more if you are darker)
A quality probiotic for gut health.
Try these things and see how they help after two months.
The medical industry thrives on people being ill!
Strength, Health and Wisdom
Willy
I heard of a recent study recently that shows depression due to abuse experienced in childhood is particularly resistant to treatment. I can vouch for that. I think many of the treatments are valid, including CBT (which I had) but it can take repetition and a long time. I’m not going to say how long it took for me as it may discourage people and my experience is not going to be someone else’s.
Cover the bases – eat well, exercise, see friends. Take supplements if you think they will help.
And see the doctor. In this, I’ve had many more good doctors than bad ones and great progress is being made in mental healthcare.
I also know, from living in the UK and getting the winter blues, that it’s vital to look into the light at sunrise. Something about the UV at that time is great for stimulating the happy hormones.
Don’t take this personally, but I have to object to this theory, esp. because it’s usually espoused by people who have never had depression. I think it’s doing a disservice to chronically depressed people by peddling to them such nonsense. all the st john’s, fish oil and sunshine in the world didn’t stop me from landing in a hospital after a near suicide (9 yrs ago this Dec). everyone, for years, told me these things were all I needed. For mild or incident related depression maybe they do work. for chronic dysthymia with long and frequent bouts of major depression, they don’t. you need cog-behavioral therapy AND meds. Many people have to go thru a couple different meds before they find the right one. I was lucky in that my docs pinpointed my type of depression accurately and put me on a med that worked quickly and has worked consistently. I resisted meds for years; I thought taking them would acknowledge weakness on my part, that I couldn’t just “get over it” on my own. I’ve had doctors (GP’s) tell me to take herbal stuff and exercise and just “get over it” (BTW I’ve yet to encounter one of those mythical docs who just prescribes anti depressants for everything). Still feeling drugs were a crutch, I twice went off the meds and within three months the depression symptoms come back- kind of a “Flowers for Algernon” effect. I didn’t want to believe I’d have to be on meds the rest of my life. But I do. And I’m alive because of them, and therapy.
Meagan19, I take both of your points (as in you and the brilliantly named Willyb0ne) but ironically I have to object. Yesterday I met up with a friend who has been dealing with depression and has had a nervous breakdown before. She is currently taking St John’s Worts after a history of taking antidepressants and is feeling some of the grey ‘lift’. She’s in fact trying a few different things. . She’s not out of the woods and is dealing with the sources of her depression, but the point is, don’t be so quick to judge. You have no call to say what is mild and isn’t or to shoot down what other people may be doing. What I do love is that you’re doing what’s absolutely right for you and please keep doing so. In fact, you embody what this post is about – get on and do your own thing instead of thinking the worst and deciding you have no options. I would hope my friend wouldn’t read your comment and think that she’s an idiot about what she’s doing, just like I’d hope that you can read this and think ‘Well if it works for some great, but I know what is working for me.’
In agreement with most of what meagan19 said. Back to reading comments, and that’s all she wrote.
Well I too have fought depression all my life and the truth is, the more more positive I have been, the better my life has been. It is a struggle, maybe a never-ending one…but I’m not throwing in the towel now! Over my many years on this earth, different people have gotten through to me and basically reminded me of this message. So it’s important to be authentic and live your life that way…not only is it best for you, but you never know who could be hearing your message and learning from it.
I’m so glad I found Natalie when I did, and I could hear her.
i gotta say, nat…where i “was” then…compared to where i “am” now….i really didn’t KNOW, consiously, WHAT i believed about men. I thought there were decent men, i thought i deserved one, and yet i spent 10 years trying to make it work with the babydaddy assclown. i wasn’t EU when i went INTO it…but i guess i sure as hell was when i came out. Yet I still didnt even see that my beliefs about men had somehow warped over ten years to : most guys are good guys ….to most guys are assclowns. My next pseudo-relationship was a fling with a (likely Narc.) assclown…and it was only reeling from that did i stumble upon your site as i was looking for examples of his behaviour …trying to figure out what the eff had happened.
i think as much as our conscious beliefs can change, we still stumble into relationships that reflect our unconsious beliefs , and that can take a lot of therapy or self-work to straighten out, if even it’s possible.
but i guess your articles sure help!
Once again…dead on the money…much needed and very timely…. Focus on us…loving ourselves and enjoying our lives…what they are doing or not doing will fade away….
I’ve just edited this right down – I originally posted to say thank you for the article and ended up ranting at length about all the barriers that I have to building healthy self-esteem and better relationships.
Some of it was valid, I think – I certainly find that a lack of time and money and energy prevents me from doing things that would help, like exercising and doing new things. But you know – when I read it back I realised that there are a lot of little things that I could be doing (my sister gave me a very old DVD of the Hollyoaks Dance Workout after a clear-out… hey, desperate times call for desperate measures!) and I don’t.
Partly this is because I’m quite lazy and not very proactive but it’s also partly because I think along the lines of “why bother, it won’t work, MY problems are so entrenched that a mere list of to-do tasks can’t possibly solve them and MY situation is so much worse than anyone else’s, living or dead” etc etc etc. Maybe so (although probably not!), but even getting up to the next level would be a positive and if I always think like that then NO WONDER I feel stuck.
So thank you, Nat, for the article and also for actually making me think about it and give myself a talking-to. Little steps might be little but that’s no reason for not taking them.
Hi yoghurt,
I’m a bit lazy too, but do find that it really gives a huge lift to my morale and self-esteem if I make the effort to get out of bed as soon as I wake, roll up my sleeves and get on with tackling the do-to list of things that need attention to make my home nicer. While I’m doing tasks (which I had almost totally neglected while I was with the ex last year), I often consciously remind myself that I’m worth taking good care of. It all makes a difference to that lovely feeling of well-being, even if it’s just crossing one or two things off that list.
“Little steps might be little but that’s no reason for not taking them”. Absolutely!
That sounds great but admittedly I’m not at that point yet… I will be at some stage though and it’s something to work towards. I’ll hold the principle of ‘I’m worth taking care of’ up as a benchmark. Thanks 🙂
Isn’t it strange how one of the hallmarks of a crappy relationship is that the rest of your workaday life crumbles around you?
“Little steps might be little but that’s no reason for not taking them.”
Indeed, yoghurt. Learning the same thing myself, in relation to weight loss. I can’t work out the way that I used to when I was younger and as a result, it’ll take longer to lose weight, but I’ve made changes to my diet and I’m hoping that they make a difference even though I can’t work out hard anymore.
What you said can be applied to so many different things. Thanks for that.
Within one year of getting married, I gained 14 lbs. It creeps up on you. My diet hadn’t changed. The pill I was taking had weight gain as a side effect.
I gained another 3 lbs. over the next few years.
In the first few months of this year, due to pregnancy, I gained 6 lbs.
Since February, I have lost 15 lbs! I am trying to shed that last 8 lbs., to bring me back to my wedding day weight, which was a size 0 or 2.
I feel wayyyyy better, and am more productive, with everything, to-do tasks, work, etc.
Also, the hormonal shifts from that damn pill brought me to low lows. No high highs, though! Interesting; right?
When I am sick with a cold, I don’t treat it with anything but honey and chamomile tea. If I take anything, it will be holistic. I avoid headache medicine, even.
I stay away from people who (try to) make me feel badly about myself. And people who don’t appreciate me for me. I used to tolerate such people. Now I don’t even want to be around them, at all.
I feel wayyy better about myself, overall.
Why do I believe the worst? Well it seems more believable than believing the best. If that makes sense. Like if I am sooo loveable, if I am such a great person (I have more moments now where I believe I am) then why oh why does it seem I keep being reinforced every which way that it isn’t true? If people even say I’m nice or I’m so sweet or I am good, then why the eff doesn’t it feel like it? Why am I continuously let down. Because when I am my funny, silly off the wall self, I get told I am crazy or weird or some other negative something. If I am so great, why don’t I have all these friends? I spend so much time alone. Any friends or acquaintances I have are married, have kids and lives of their own. I am single and childless. There’s only so much I can keep myself occupied with before my mind runs off in awful directions.
“You think it’s your fault that someone treated you poorly”
I hate to say it but I’ve had too many “poor treaters” that I can’t help but believe it is something I am doing to attract it. I’m too nice, I’m not bold enough, I’m too masculine, I’m not feminine enough, I don’t have backbone enough, I don’t stand up for myself enough, I’m too quiet, I’m too awkward, I’m too shy, I said something I should not have, etc” Bla bla bla blablaba.
” because you’re expecting the worst to happen but you’re also more likely to gravitate to people that reflect what you believe. ”
This must be what is happening time and time again. So I AM attracting this poor behavior.
Why should I believe some man is going to stay when they always leave? Why should I believe I could ever have a sane and healthy relationship with someone that wants to stick around? Why should I believe that there is in fact a good man out there that WANTS to be with me and treat me well? Why should I when it’s happened once out of how many times??? Bah.
That all sounds very desperate, and since my divorce 3 years ago I admit I have lengthy spells of feeling the same. I am probably older than you, and I do have children; but one of the things that’s helped me most was reading “The New Single Woman” by Ellen Kay Trimberger, and also “The Cinderella Complex” by Colette Dowling. Both approach ways of being reasonably contented – if not ecstatically happy – without a man. It’s difficult, when the media always portrays happy people as being part of a couple or a family. I studied some TV ads recently – the only ones featuring apparently single women were for diarrhoea remedies and headache pills! Have you seen the one where a woman agonizes over how best to place her new air-freshener, and only relaxes when her man his given it the nod of approval???
“The New Single Woman” discusses deliberate single-motherhood, and is relevant to women of all ages and sexual orientatation.
Yes, I’d like a new bloke (I’ve been borrowing someone else’s for three years – but that’s a different story…) but – as Nat has said before – “I’m not THAT desperate” and I’m working on making my life now as good as I can. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t.
Colororange.
Perhaps some of the negative beliefs are backed by reality but why keep your focus on them? What Natalie’s trying to say is that it is just not benefiting to anyone and definitely not contributing to your happiness. She is right . The mind is broken that way. It gets hooked on rewards and pleasures(like love, sex…) and when the source of reward is gone, it is trying to get it back. How will it get it back? It needs the person to get better. But the negative mind feedback is so evolutionary intrinsic to us – for survival purposes. “I need to get better. I’m not good compared to others, hence I’m not competitive and will not procreate – hence my genes cannot survive. I must change”. But some things are completely useless to try and change or too abstract or impossible to fix (like “I’m too nice, I’m not bold enough, I’m too masculine, I’m not feminine enough, I don’t have backbone enough, I don’t stand up for myself enough, I’m too quiet, I’m too awkward, I’m too shy” – what does that mean? Too nice compared to whom?Too awkward as opposed to what? The mind does not discriminate….)
In these cases we need to practice mindfulness: catch our mind and stop getting involved in the ruminating on these thoughts. The thoughts might continue to come but why do we need to react to them? It’s just our mind playing tricks on us and wasting our time on useless stuff that CANNOT make us happy, when in reality there is so much stuff that CAN make us happy.
I have had some hideous relationships – when I condensed them all to a therapist the other month, I actually shocked myself. How much bad luck can one person have. Literally no one I know of, friends, friends of friends etc has had so many bad outcomes. I think I have been dumped/left/ and variations of the other person leaving sooo many times, that things seem out of my control.
However I think the key thing I have realised is – nope its not possible to get into a relationship with a guarentee it will work out. However, for me, and all my hideous men situations – the writing was on the wall pretty early on in the relationship. Some times as early on as – shouldn’t even be going on a first date, or perhaps a bit later, I realise he is not over his marriage etc etc. If I had exercised some better judgemetn and had better self esteem then I wouldn’t have spent more than a few weeks with some of these ass clowns. Instead I have racked up 18 odd years of numerous relationships (living together, Long distance, dating blah blah) all of which were bad for me. None of them much good at all. That is a bitter pill to swallow when I look at it like that. Especially when I look around me and see friends happily settled down in great relationships.
You ask, why should I believe they will stay when they never do – maybe like me you’ve been dating men who you are actually *right* to think they will not stay, because something tells you (their actions, lack of actions, your gut) they are AC.
I struggle with the idea that men can be faithful (I’ve been cheated on by pretty much all of my ex’s – sometimes with multiple women at the same time. Even had one ex with two houses, one which he shared with another woman). I actually started to believe that maybe it was soemthing I should over look, as well – that is what men are like (especially when you start to listen too hard to all the media messages about x% end up cheating). I cant predict the future and I can’t say for certainty that my next bf will be faithful, however if I try and use my brain and weed out those men in the past i would have blindly dated, then the chances of being cheated on must surely diminish.
@Norfolk,
thanks for the book rec but I’m not reading anymore self-help deals. I’ve read a mountain of those types of books on relationships, etc. None of that helps me. I am the common denominator so the problem is me. It is too painful to be available when I keep getting involved with people that don’t care about how I feel. They continuously let me down and break my heart. They don’t give an eff about me. Then I all but lose it and get angry. I blame myself. I just do. I feel like I’m trying to climb out of a muddy hole and keep slipping back in. I have no grip.
@tanta
Well, I really feel it boils down to something I’m saying (saying things that push others away) and doing. Then I end up feeling like I have to say I’m sorry for what I said.
@imfree
Yes, I pretty much could figure out in the beginning I should go no further but that never derailed me. I was GOING to make it work regardless of the situation. I guess, yeah, I am desperate. Given my history and the constant anxiety and fear, I have been very desperate. I want someone to love me. I want someone to stay. I want someone to be there and fulfill their promises. And that is apparently way too much to ask for and to expect.
colorange
I don’t want to sound like a mind-bending jedi but the only thing that’s wrong with you is that you think there is something wrong with you.
I agree. I also hear a common theme….
You said “This must be what is happening time and time again. So I AM attracting this poor behavior.”
Attracting? Yes. Deserving? No. It sounds like you believe you deserve and expect poor behavior. There’s clearly a difference.
You are right to expect people to care, stay and fulfill their promises but no one is obligated to change the way you feel about yourself. I have a female friend / co-worker that relies heavily on me to boost her spirits and keep her on track with work and her recent divorce. I accommodate to a degree but it can be exasperating at times.
As much as she is my friend, there are still times when I have to exert my own boundaries and recognize when I’m being pulled down. I think that’s what healthy people do and it can be perceived as not caring enough.
But we are the only one’s whose opinions matter of ourselves. If we believe we’re unloveable…l0-and-behold they come right out of the woodworks. Please be gentle with yourself and affirm all the lovely things about yourself…once you really believe them you will notice small shifts in the decisions you make.
I hope that’s not harsh because I would really like to give you big {{hugs}}…because yes, you deserve them.
How can it be so hard to believe in you when you believed in someone else in spite of the fact that they repeatedly let you down?
How true, I always believed in the ex eum to do the right thing, but he did repeatedly let me down.
I have not believed in me or if I have it has been fleeting speaking in regards to no contact and I have not believed enough in me and got myself back involved on a measly crumb. (text)
This time I am working through my anger to end up at the point where I fully believe in me and back me.
Your ex is not on house arrest until you decide that you’re in a good enough situation for them to move on. Them having a good time has nothing to do with you.
I know that my ex is entitled to move on and have a relationship, the thing that gets to me here is in the time they were together he didn’t tell me.
The infomation has only just come to light and so much stuff came to light along with some things that confuse me.
We had made a decision to be friends and he rang me and we went out to dinner and he said he had a good time and enjoyed himself but as soon as we got back to my house he clammed shut said he would call me and thanks and left. I was a bit puzzled now I know he was in a relationship.
Now I know why he never called me when he said he was going to, he was busy in his relationship. Everytime after that dinner we would only be meeting because of my invitation we always greeted each other with a kiss on the cheek but he would always end it with a kiss on my lips.
After one particular lunch I decided enough was enough his words his actions were not adding up. I decided to leave it alone and I did.
He sent me a text to tell me he was down because of his work situation amongst other things but mostly work turns out this text was sent because his relationship had ended.
I feel angry so very angry to have been so dumb, angry at him for not saying anything and angry at me for not continuing to move on and believing in me.
All these incidents and memories keep popping up and making sense now.
Should he have told me about his relationship ??
Um, why was he having dinner/lunch with you if he was in a relationship? I know it was by your invitation but he could say no. He doesnt seem to be very honest, that may be your answer. I’m sure his new girl wouldnt have liked it if she found out he was meeting with an ex. And possibly he knows he wouldnt get the invitation to meet had you known he was in a relationship. He played both ends to meet the middle but that was not your fault.
Tulipa
I’m going to put YOU under house arrest!
Should he have told you about the relationship? Probably, but he doesn’t OWE it to you. He may not even have told his own mother. You don’t have a right to know, except that it’s something a friend might mention!
The problem here is less about him than you now. You can’t be friends with him even if he did treat you well. Because you don’t have friendly feelings towards him, you have romantic and sexual feelings. I think we all know by now, we can’t change those feelings. All you can do is put the distance in and mourn the loss properly. Otherwise, you’re stuck, stuck, stuck.
You’re trying to be friends with someone you’re in love with. Don’t do it to yourself!
The good news is NO I’m not going to be doing it to myself anymore.
I do feel incredibly angry, because he knows if he had told me he was seeing someone I would have stayed away.
I have been trying to ‘win’ in this situation for way too long and if to be honest if I did win I bet I wouldn’t want him, I’m sick of been rejected to the point where I wonder if my primary relationship is with rejection rather than a person.
Thank you SM for your reply. You are right the girl he was seeing at the time wouldn’t have liked it and I would have stayed away. He knows that. There was always enough in these dinners etc to keep me hooked in sometimes I would walk away and think that was an inappropriate topic for friends to discuss.
Thank you, Grace, I have been making this about me this time it just puzzled me because wouldn’t friends mention oh yeah Ive met somebody we have been dating fro x amount of months now.
You are correct I do not have ‘friend’ feelings for him . I don’t know if I would call it love or just plain I have to win this thing. But non the less he made his position very very clear to me on the phone he does not want to get back together with me now hes single again and is out and about actively searching for someone else.
But even with all that stated he still wants us to remain friends and meet up for dinner in December. But I will accept my house arrest and work on me.
I keep thinking what an incredible fool I have been, though slightly puzzled over his reasons for being down to think I cared so much and it was more about his relationship ending than anything he was telling me if I’d known I’d have left him alone.
Hopefully after the anger stage comes forgiveness and moving on.
@Tulipa,
I second your self-imposed house arrest. Personally I do feel that trying to be friends with someone whom you’ve more than platonic feelings for, and especially an ex, is an uneasy mixture. It can be compelling to stay on in a situation, out of a desire to win, or to prove something to oneself. If anything at all, it’s good of him to clarify his position that he’s searching for someone else, but very insensitive to be proposing friendship in this context–he sounds like someone who likes possibilities, enticing you, the idea of knowing that you’re in love while he observes from the grandstands, without being a co-participant. It can be flattering to know someone loves you and maybe he’s addicted to that feeling? I wish you well in moving on.
Go cold turkey on your ex! No contact, no face time, nothing! You said that he repeatedly let you down. Why are you providing him opportunities to let you down? He hurt you, he is not honest with you, and obviously he thinks everything is okay between you two enough to meet you when obviously they are not.
You are legitmizing his poor and shitty behavior towards you by still talking to him. Just ignore him. You will find someone better, I guarantee it! However, you won’t be able to do that unless you move on with your life and get unstuck from this man who has let you down repeatedly. I find disappointment is really hard to cope with. It seems like you are lacking some sort of closure.
Thank you Samantha and JadeSesame,
Iam working on my unsent letter it is tough so many things are popping up.
But one thing it is establishing is my need to be in no contact, that no friendship is possible not now not ever.
Your replies and answers only confirm to me I am on the right track.
Natalie,
I can now say I refuse to take responsibility for my former EUM/AC’s “friend’s” behavior. What a pisstaker. I do however wish I had recognized that it was him, not me a long time ago. I did blame myself for awhile, telling myself that I was not good enough, pretty enough, interesting enough,etc, that it was me not him…but over time after reading your articles and reflecting on things, I realized that overall I have been caring and GOOD to him, HONEST with him, and that he has REFUSED to be honest with me b/c he is more concerned with his feelings than mine. He knows some of his behaviors have hurt me, I told him! and kept doing them anyways, which shows me he doesn’t care about me as a person. No respect or real concern for me. I guess I’ve been a doll to him. A toy to pick up, mess with and put back on a shelf. It’s stung but I am moving on. Healing…I’ve forgiven but not forgotten. Not planning to forget have to protect myself.
Unfortunately I cannot go completely NC as I occasionally see him at work (we’re in the same dept) but I will keep chats super short, just a “hi” if possible, I realized if it’s more it screws with my head and I start losing resolve. Had that happen a couple weeks ago, caused a setback. I hate that I’ve cried over him acting like an ass, wanting him to love me. What a waste of emotion and time. No more. He’s great at saying one thing and acting another. Whatever. His loss.
Your first paragraph really resonated with me bc I did the same with my AC…told him his behavior hurt me, etc. Nothing ever changed. He even went so far as to say that I’m “amazing” to him and that he will never stop talking to me.
About six months ago it all came to a head for me…confronted him and expected a response. The most he said was that he felt bad that he made me feel that way. Needless to say I didnt contact him for six months bc of how he ignored me.
Then I get the lazy *ss text for Thanksgiving. I literally had a physical reaction of anxiety and then realized it’s only a friggin text, for crying outloud!
You’re first paragragh summarized for me why I never returned the msg.
“Healing…I’ve forgiven but not forgotten. Not planning to forget have to protect myself.” Thanks for that =)
Wow. Thank you Natalie. I needed this today.
I woke up feeling quite sorry for myself this morning. It was a beautiful Saturday morning and all I could think about was the AC playing happy family with his new girlfriend. He was happy and in love again, while I was feeling alone and miserable. And then I read your post. It gave me the needed kick up the back side.
I have tended to underestimate my capabilities my whole life – not because I grew up in a dysfunctional family (thankfully I had a great family life), but because I was bullied and ostracised throughout my entire school years due to a facial abnormality. At 18 I had an operation to fix the problem, but the damage had been done.
Outwardly, it seems that I have a lot going for me (doing a PhD, property portfolio, friendly, great laugh, a nice person and now considered attractive according to society norms), but inwardly, I have always wondered if I was enough and I have struggled to feel worthy of a good, healthy relationship.
I spent my 20’s in a string of EU/MM relationships, and it wasn’t until I was 29 that I *drifted* into a relationship with someone who was emotionally available. Unfortunately, he was also an AC. He was a man-child, and while the red flags were there, I let the relationship drag on for nearly four years. He dumped me two and a half months ago for someone else (and moved in with her a week later). The problem was I didn’t think that I could do better.
I’m recently started to date again. I’ve been seeing someone for the last six weeks. By society’s terms, he appears a great catch. CEO of a large non-for-profit organisation, featured regularly on TV and in the newspapers, and has even been called a national hero. The fact that he is interested in me makes me feel validated (I know – wrong) and I struggle with ensuring that I don’t elevate him up onto a pedestal.
While he calls me nearly every night, he is so busy with his work, I’ve barely had a chance to get to know him. I’ve noticed a couple of amber flags – married to his work, divides his time between two states, so if it doesn’t work out, I have to make sure I don’t blame myself – that I wasn’t good enough. I have to stop seeking validation from other people. Like Natalie said previously, just because someone is successful at their job, doesn’t automatically grant them god-like status when it comes to relationships.
A lot of emotionally unavailable men travel for their work!! Just sayin’…
LA: I am glad to see that you have your mojo back. I do agree with you that your new love interest is exhibiting some red flag or amber colored behavior. He makes time to talk to you every night, that says something. He is willing to make time for you. I think most guys would not. I am not making excuses for his behavior, but he probably does appreciate the fact that you are being so patient with him. When he gets back into town, plan a day for the both of you whether it is a picnic, walk through a park or just doing simple things like book shopping just so you can see who he is when he is not in work-mode.
Adolescence and childhood is rough. I came from a dysfunctional family and bullied too. It sucks, but now like you said you are attractive, smart and have a lot of things going for you. You are living the life that you want to live which is the best thing you can give yourself. Scars still remain from our adolescent years but those are in the past. You need to live in the present and look towards the future for your own emotional health. I think it is important to know where we came from and what we have been through so we can be grateful/thankful. You are very resilient. Embrace your strength!
Thanks for your words of support and suggestions Sam!
Yes, being bullied throughout your childhood is not nice and does tend to make you question your worthiness as a person (even today). As a consequence, I am always surprised when someone is attracted to me – I tend to wonder what they see in me.
I am meeting up with this new guy this weekend. Your suggestion to do something simple is a good one. I need to get to know him on a personal level to see if we have things in common. Yes, the reason I have stuck around for this length of time is because he has called me pretty much every night for the last six weeks. Had I only been receiving crumbs I would have walked. However, will need to have a discussion as to how much time he will have going forward…not going to be content with seeing him every one to two months!
Lo J – you may be right, although I’ll have to get to know him a little bit more before I can make that judgement call.
I ran out of room to say it in my last post, but like all of you here, I’m just so grateful that I came across Natalie and BR. Life is certainly interesting. Lots of ups and downs and lessons to learn. Natalie, you have and continue to help me navigate the murky waters of my life post break up. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Tonight I swore off my Mr. Unavailable again. I struggle so much with this decision for all the reasons you have ever said. N, it feels as if you are speaking directly to me. And tonight was no exception , for I found myself in the company of one of my good guy friends, teary eyed and asking him if ‘there is something wrong with me’. Having read this latest bit, I think I know what that “something” might be. Thank you, N for your wisdom. You have no idea how much I suffer from my own self-flogging. But then again…you kind of do. I will try to get behind myself.
Someone said this on one of the relationship forums that I read from time-to-time, and I agree 100%…
“You have to be attractive to attract love. And I’m not referring to physical attraction, although you become more physically attractive when you feel good. People are attracted to charisma, vitality, warmth, desire, laughter, inner happiness and peace. Find that in yourself and you will attract someone to share it with.”
Gina
I think the women who comment here have no problem attracting men – men who are successful, good looking, charming, affectionate (when it suits them). Our problem isn’t attracting “love”, it’s attracting the right kind of love and even WANTING the right kind of love. When the right kind of love is offered to us we’re not sure what to do with it.
have to say that charisma is overrated – It shouldn’t be first on that list, or even on it at all. Vitality I’m not so sure about either. Or desire. Inner peace and happy I like, they need to hike that up the list!
Hi Grace,
“When the right kind of love is offered to us we’re not sure what to do with it.”
That is why it is SO important for women (and men) to learn to love themselves! You cannot make good choices in love until you do. Until the majority of women on this board raise their level of self-esteem, they will always attract the kind of men who are willing to take advantage of them.
Case in point: my mom had low self-esteem (even though she gave great relationship advice, she could never follow her own advice). Against the family’s warnings, she married my dad who was a wife beating alcoholic. She eventually divorced him and met someone else who was nice, charming and did not beat her. This guy moved in and lived with us for three years. During that time, my mom kept asking when he was going to marry her, and he kept making excuses. One day, he up and dumped her for a woman whom he’d only known for two months. They ended up getting married, and my mom was devastated (it took her five years to get over him because she allowed him to use her as a FB girl). Rather than looking at the red flags, and vetting the guy, which would have saved her tons of heartache (even my useless father told her to her face that the guy did not love her and that he was just using her!!), the lesson that she took from the experience was this: “Just because a man is nice, charming, and doesn’t fight, it doesn’t mean that he cares about you. Your father may have fought me, but when he wasn’t drinking, he was a good man.” WTF??!? So she went back to dating alcoholic men. Fortunately for me, they weren’t violent.
My mom was a nice looking woman, but she was NEVER interested in men who were truly nice and kind to her, and who would have made wonderful life partners. I used to sneak and read the tons of love letters that she kept stored in her desk from guys that she dated (some of whom were in the service), who asked her to wait for them because they wanted to marry her.
She had tons of physical ailments from my dad beating her up over the years, and ended up being diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic and had to be admitted to a mental hospital, where she lived for the last nine years of her life. She died–alone, depressed, and miserable because of the life choices that she made. Sheesh! What a wasted life!!
Gina
Aw, I’m sorry to hear that about your mother.
My mother is very poorly and in a nursing home. She is still extremely verbally abusive to my father, who has taken a well-earned holiday abroad for three months! I asked her if she missed him. She just complained about him. That poor man has put up with her vile temper for decades, but so did we all. I suppose in a better world he would taken us and run but that really was not an option in those days. He is very passive around her, if you try to defend yourself, she becomes even more bad-tempered and violent.
For years I believed something was wrong with me and that this crazy parenting doomed me for life.
But these days, now I’m happier, I can let it go. I can even go visit my mother and not feel enraged. Because I am happy it is easy for me to pass a little of that happiness on (for the five minute that she’s pleased to see me, before she starts complaining). She’s also become essentially harmless in her old age, as she is quite disabled, so I don’t feel as though I’m in any danger.
PS Your mother didn’t have a wasted life. She had you.
Grace!
I sounds like you are a kindred spirit! I read your post and kept nodding my head in agreement. I, too, experienced the same type of treatment from my mom! She was always criticizing me and putting me down. Saying things such as, “You are stupid just like your father.” I grew up with an inferiority complex. It wasn’t until I finally starting standing up for myself (around the age of 40), and applying all the advice that she’d given me over the years to our relationship, that she started to treat me with respect. She actually would call me from the mental facility that she was living in apologize for being mean to me and tell me she loved me –I’d go and see her and she would start insulting me, so I’d leave. The next time I’d go to visit her, she would compliment me (I almost fell on the floor from shock! LOL!). The last couple of years of her life we actually had a pretty decent relationship… all things considered.
Thank you, NML. I needed to read this.
Only yesterday, I saw an article in the paper that said, when surveyed, women on average say they’ve slept with four men in their life. Well, that set me off writing a list, which got me feeling upset and guilty about my drunken mistakes.
Thank you for reminding me that I don’t need to beat myself up just because of a stupid article.
Yes and men around 30- 40? Well someone is telling porkies.. mine is most def over 4, and while some were definately AC’s I can’t regret what I cannot change, don’t beat yourself up about it.
I love Andie McDowell’s line in ‘4 Weddings and a Funeral…’Less than Madonna, more than Princess Di….!’
In general I hate these surveys, like Nat is saying they do little more than urge us to make(usually unfavourable) comparisons about ourselves in relation to other’s attributes or behaviour.
It’s nobody’s business but mine these days who I ‘ve slept with and I know now that the next person I choose to sleep with will be deserving of me.
I think a lot of us struggle with this in various aspects of life. Even at my most secure, there are moments of “am-I-good-enough?”
While I think it’s great that people seek out information on dating and relationships, and blogs like this are truly helpful and invaluable, there can be a downside.
I got married yesterday. When I got back into the dating game 3 years ago, I fortunately hadn’t “read up” on the dating world. If I had, I probably would have given up before starting. I had so much against me, on paper. At 39, I was “old,” I have short hair, which men hate. I’m a serious nerd. I was widowed, which I later learned a lot of men see as a huge red flag. The marriage that had ended in death was incredibly difficult and nearly destroyed me. I was emotionally unavailable (at least at first) According to conventional wisdom, I had a MAYBE .001% chance of finding someone decent.
Because I didn’t know how many things were wrong with me though, I just jumped in feet first, and eventually met someone wonderful. I guess in that sense, ignorance is bliss.
I guess what I take from all of this is that information is good and so is self-improvement, but you have to exercise discretion. Choose to read and learn things that are positive and empowering. You won’t become a better person simply by thinking you are, but believing you can be one and working toward it will get you there.
Christina
I’m happy for you, congratulations!
Of course there was nothing wrong with you! I don’t read women’s magazines anymore, apart from Vogue every now and then, who thankfully don’t trouble themselves with relationships or sex tips. I also like allure, it can be quite uplifting.
I don’t read the papers much either. I get my news from BBC Radio 4 , who aren’t pumping out crap relationship advice criticising women.
I really hate Cosmopolitan by the way. How to please your man? BLAH!!!
The way I feel about the sex tips in Cosmo is the same way I feel about the craft ideas in Martha Stewart Living: Even with the handy-dandy step-by-step diagrams, I don’t have a clue what’s going on and I get the sense that there are far easier, less time consuming ways to attain the end result.
“I get the sense that there are far easier, less time consuming ways to attain the end result.” Ha ha ha, YES!
I am waiting for the day Martha starts featuring sex tip articles: “10 Ways to Dress Up Your BJs for the Holidays”. You’ll need glitter, craft paper, dried holly leaves, wood glue, and pinking shears…
Ouch.
Back to Nat’s article: there’s an expression in my line of work (computer programming): Garbage In, Garbage Out. If you put junk data and code into the machine, it will spit junk right back out. There’s a ton of garbage stats that are being cherry-picked by authors to back up dubious theories about dating and relationships.
Women’s magazines are some of the worst offenders. Those articles just serve to sell ad space to push products to us promising to fix our insecurities. Bah! What a load of garbage. But I know when I do sneak a peek at those types of articles, I end up feeling queasy and questioning myself. So, I have to be vigilant about not letting the garbage in.
Again ladies I thought I was the only one that didn’t understand where to put the glitter and/or the glue or what to do whether it was a home craft or sex, despite the diagrams. I do now know what to do with the pinking shears, although Martha wouldn’t approve! I’m still hoping for the cream I can rub everywhere (including him) to rid myself of my insecurities and make him available. If it can get rid of my wrinkles as well, I’ll pay double! He, he, he…anti-wrinkle and security cream. Hand me the pinking shears.
I made a deliberate decision, on the back of an awful bout of depression/neurosis, to stop reading women’s magazines when I was about 20. I still occasionally look at the ones that tell you how to knit a tea-cosy and have uplifting stories about women starting up their own businesses whilst recovering from breast cancer (and even then only at the dentists’ or similar), but the sight of a glossy like Cosmopolitan now makes me feel a bit ill.
Following this recent bout of awfulness, I’ve also cut out any form of chick lit (either annoying or unhelpful), newspapers, most crime novels and basically anything that makes me see the world as a nasty and depressing place or that gives an unhelpful view of relationships.
At this rate my reading matter will end up being totally restricted to Anne of Green Gables, the Sue Barton nursing series and the odd Beano annual. I can live with that for a while.
Ladies, you have me dying laughing! I’m so glad I’m not the only one that has read BOTH of these publications and thought, “I…don’t have an effing clue.” Whenever I’m running errands and see a high school age girl picking up a Cosmo, I want to tackle her and give her a 10 minute speech about how bj’s, though important, will not make a jackass/wishy washy dude commit and she’d better make damn sure a guy respects her before even thinking about reading that article about bedazzled bikini waxes. Then, when the police arrive, I can explain that it’s part of a new outreach program called “Life Lessons With Natasha”.
So funny! I was telling my friend the other day how excited I was to finally understand and have self esteem and “boundaries”. I said, “I just want to tell EVERYBODY! I want to just shove it down their throats!!” Ha ha ha!!!
Congrats Christina!
Christina, your comment made me smile from ear to ear! Congratulations and thank you so much for sharing 🙂
@Yoghurt… God, I loved Anne of Green Gables…and her simmering love for Gilbert Blyth! Was he a EUM in the end… I can’t remember?
Noooooooooo… he’s the Love Of Her Life and they have six or seven children in the end!
I have all of those books and although they inevitably with the protagonist marrying a discovering her true role as a wife and mother (humbug), what I really really love about them is that the women in them actually have very very strong boundaries and act on them. I don’t know as it wasn’t easier back in the day, but they’re a lot tougher than a lot of heroines in modern fiction (SATC, say, or – ugh – Bella in Twilight, a woman who is Defined By Her Love For A Vampire). Boy do they make those men work hard!
Just re-read Little Women and Jo March is the same – she doesn’t marry Laurie EVEN THOUGH he’s hot and rich and future-faking her and they have a great connection, essentially because she recognises that they don’t share the same values.
Christina – sorry for subverting your comment with a long discussion about books, but congratulations on your marriage! 🙂
Congratulations, Christina. May we all be as lucky one day. 🙂
Like yoghurt, I stopped reading certain magazines (*cough* Cosmo! *cough* *cough* Essence! *cough* Seventeen! *cough* *cough*) in college, younger than 20. They made me feel like complete & utter shit – yes, even in my late teens – they were (and still are) rife with shady statistics & questionable ways to catch/keep a man. Now, it isn’t so much that they make me FEEL like shit, as much as many of these magazines are FULL of shit (without making me feel bad in the process because they wouldn’t faze me now).
Media are powerful outlets for misinformation. Stick to the GOOD media that give out factual information, otherwise you’ll think that you’re an ugly old morbidly obese hag who’ll never meet a good partner. 😐
Christina, I’ve been meaning to say all week – congratufrickinglations! Fabulous news!
I personally know a number of women who are late thirties or in their forties, and a couple in their early fifties that have found love. Funny enough, most have short hair. Half of them are black, a female demographic that’s supposed to find it ‘extra’ difficult to settle down especially if it’s with a black man. Basically, if any of us, male or female allow media or whatever to dictate what is considered attractive, we’ll go nowhere. We’re not supposed to be everyone’s cup of tea. Incidentally, we also know a number of women older than you (I’m talking 50s and 60s) who are all widows and have all met someone or even remarried. It could be a cultural thing – they’re all African women – or maybe it’s just that they get on with things. In fact, I’ve heard from quite a few readers whose *mothers* have divorced or been widowed and moved on. The reality is, whatever your circumstances, you can find a relationship and a decent one at that.
“What is the Benefit To You of Believing The Worst About You?”
The first words that jumped into my head as I saw the title of this post were:
Duh! My Dad will like me!
I filed THAT under interesting moments in self-awareness.
That was my thought, too. I’m still the little girl wanting daddy to love me and approve of me. *sigh*
Have you ever wondered what that means – not about you, but about your parent?
In my book, if a parent wants you to believe the worst about yourself, there is something wrong with that parent. NOT with YOU.
It might sound harsh, but I guess for me that was the turning point. After I understood that my mother had narcissistic personality disorder, I was (slowly) able to get rid of many negative beliefs about myself. It was tough, because she told me that crap daily (in a thousand different and seemingly “intellectual” ways, she told me basically “I’m as perfect as God himself and you’re the worst crap in the world!”) and expected me to repeat it in my own words. Otherwise she wouldn’t let up.
I’m still working on it and I am still. insanely. angry. But I guess that’s ok for now.
Nathalie, will you stop looking in my frikkin head!!!! 😉 I don’t get scared of the he said/she said, I can handle so called doom news . But X Narc actually not being in solitary confinement in an iglo on the Southpole: that’s whats bothering the hell out of me! How dare he meet people and live on???
So, uhmm okay, after reading your article, I’ll have to be honest and level out: back to the drawing board to look some more at me, instead of at him.
But the pleasant news is: he remains a Narc assclown wether he meets new people here or sits in an iglo, and you can’t take that from me!! 😉 Thanks Nathalie for being spot on, as usual!
lol..that’s how I feel too. He can’t have a life w/out me, he’s supposed to be devastated. But just like yours, he’s a narc AC who isn’t going to change, even for the new ‘lucky lady’.
Nat thank you so much for this post. I’m one of the people taking another job because I feel I am worth it. Since I am in sales, it is so very important that I believe on a continuous basis that I am good at what I do, if I dont I will fail miserably. I recognize this professionally, I need to start recognizing it personally. I believe that if I do this, then the next time some ac disappears on me I will not think that it is something I did to cause it.
Natalie, did you write this blog about depression or about the power of thinking positively? The shares here ARE depressing. When I think highly of myself and take the plunge – like calling an editor who stopped contacting me, fearful he’d tell me he didn’t like my work – I take a step towards increasing my self-esteem. Turns out he hadn’t contacted me to give me time to heal from a hand injury! Thus my perceptions about my work were completely unfounded, and now I’m writing for him again.
Sue,
I really love when things happen and we imagine the absolute worst that it turns out to be something totally different. When we imagine the reasons for why someone else is doing what they’re doing because of something we’ve done and then we hear it wasn’t that at all, it’s relieving. It shows how sick our minds get.
So, I’ve been dumped by all these guys because they are all head injured!! I like that better!
So many of the responses to this have meaning. @CrumbsNoMore – I feel the same!! I was good to my exes – probably too nice in the face of what was abusive behaviour – I thought I could pour love over it all and it would get better – to my own demise. I had a huge breakdown. I have had therapists say to me I wasn’t really being caring or loving or putting others first because I was actually doing it to make myself feel better. It goes so far back into our upbringings – in mine I was taught to put everyone else first, to not think of myself and that when I did think of myself I was wrong. If I came home saying someone had been mean to me my mothers response was ‘what did you do to upset them?’ And so I have spent my life BELIEVING that I can be the cause of others poor behaviour, that what I do DOES affect others – then my exh told me that because of things that had happened in my life (my parents deaths, my loss of a baby, losing my job) that I had made all those things happen – that I was a bad luck attractor of some sort and that he didn’t want to be with someone who had so many things happen to them!. OMG! Deep inside I KNEW that was evidence of how crappy he was but something else inside me said ‘yes you really are an awful person’. It is taking a long time to recover it but slowly and surely I know those thoughts do not serve me – why should I want to believe the worst about myself?? What good does that do me?? All my life it has kept me miserable and I am so tired of being that person . Yes – I look at my exh now and say he’s having such a great time, new family, having fun and all those thoughts are doing is damaging ME – not him! I still have anger to work though and let go of but realisation is the first and biggest step.
Jane
I hear you. I’ve let go of everything being my fault.
I learned a lot from a colleague at my former work. When we ran into problems with our supervisor trying to control and bully us, not for ONE SECOND did she express an iota of self-doubt. I was all “what have we done wrong? Why is she doing this? ” And she said “We haven’t done anything. That woman is a ****”. I didn’t agree with her at the time, but I admired her spirit.
Now I do agree with her. And I have some of that spirit too.
I wonder if you have considered how you would feel if those you once loved really had hell…would if truly make you feel any better? For me, if those I love/d learn to really love and have good lives it will only be better for the world…may the good be better and the bad be good is one of my prayers…I just want those who can’t be good to/for me to stay the #### away and out of my life…wishing you good things!
I’m here crying feeling almost identical to how I did when I was 16-years-old when I was dating the pothead jerk. Everyday was a constant state of anxiety. Never knowing when/if I would get to see him, whether he would call. I remember as soon as my eyes would pop open in the morning, I’d be flooded with fear and worry. It took six years to get out of that relationship and that was only because another man “rescued” me, to which I am grateful. I do not know that I could have gotten away on my own. I was being nosy on FB and found pothead’s new girlfriend with whom he has a child by. She was posting all over her wall about him only texting her, not calling or won’t talk to her. She is experiencing now what I did with him over 13 years ago. So I know it wasn’t ME that made him act a total ass toward me because he is doing it to someone else. That’s a bit of relief.
This is part of my “condition” that I can not have relationships much less close friendships with many people. I fall into this debilitating fear. I can hardly function. Don’t want to eat or do anything. Just stationary. I’m always worried I say something wrong or offensive (I have done this before) and I’m scared they’re going to leave me. I know I know people leave. People die, that’s life. But should my fear of it be so strong? So all encompassing?! I remember I had a friend in high school that other people would ask her what was wrong with me because I never spoke. It’s my personality to be quiet and I seem to come alive around people who are unavailable or “off”. It became, from earlier on than high school, “clear” or so it seemed, that people just don’t like me. They don’t want to be around me and if they are it is to use me for something. I have all these YEARS of negative feedback and I’m supposed to find a way to believe that I’m better than that? Is that even possible in this case? ? I must have some undiagnosed mental disorder.
coloro
I have felt as those things. I also used to think about death a lot too. I’ve had extreme anxiety when I wanted to cut off my own head to stop the THOUGHTS. Mine was diagnosed as depression. One in four people will suffer from it. We all know someone who has had it. We also all know someone who has recovered from it.
Even if you don’t have depression you certainly have low self-esteem. I know you think it’s more complicated than that. I used to think that my extreme thoughts, feelings, situation and years of negativity had to be about more than low self-esteem.
Your condition (whether depression, low self esteem or both) is not unique. It is well-known and treatable. If the day comes when the medical community identifies a new disorder called Colororange Syndrome, feel free to let me know and I’ll eat my words.
lol @ grace…………colororange syndrome. that’ll be the day!
“It became, from earlier on than high school, “clear” or so it seemed, that people just don’t like me. They don’t want to be around me and if they are it is to use me for something. I have all these YEARS of negative feedback and I’m supposed to find a way to believe that I’m better than that? Is that even possible in this case?”
colororange – I also have years and years of empirical evidence to suggest that I’m a completely annoying and useless waste of space. But this suddenly popped into my head as I was reading your post and I thought I’d share it. Before I got pregnant by Gitface McGee, I started seeing someone in a long-distance dealio that culminated with him coming to stay for the weekend. It was nice, but during it we had the following conversation:
HIM: Why d’you keep apologising? You apologise all the time.
ME: I don’t know, it’s just something that I do. Live with it. (I am strangely assertive about my lack of assertiveness, it bogs me off when it gets picked up on).
HIM: Well don’t. I’m having a lovely time, you’ve planned a great weekend for me, you’re lovely company except that you keep on apologising. Stoppit. It’s annoying.
ME: Okay… sorry.
That one didn’t work out.
Then, recently I had a conversation with Gitface, in which he said “It always really used to annoy me that you apologised all the time. You’re attractive and you do loads of things really well but you always apologise for yourself” And I said “hmmm, I think that I would take that better from someone who hadn’t eaten my self-esteem with some fava beans and a nice Chianti. F-f-f-f-f-f”. (finally! got to tell someone about that line! I was proud of it 😀 )
Point being that low self-esteem manifests itself in a range of verbal and non-verbal cues – like non-stop apologising – that are off-putting to people, ESPECIALLY if you clearly have no outward reason for low self-esteem. They also act as a big neon PLEASE COME HERE AND SCREW ME OVER sign to EUs, thus providing you with further justification for negative self-belief.
So, from what you say, it could be that you’re the World’s Most Awful and Irritating Person (in which case live it up cos EVEN THEN you have the right to a nice happy life) but I bet it’s not… it’s much much much more likely to be that you maybe walk with your arms folded over your chest and say ‘sorry’ a lot, or similar (maybe yours are more subtle). I don’t know what the solution is though – I’m considering assertiveness training.
Now I want to apologise for coming across as shamelessly self-promoting in my last post. But I WON’T…
Love your post Yoghurt and its a GREAT line ! 🙂
Thanks 🙂 He didn’t get it though, I don’t think he’s seen Silence of the Lambs.
I try very hard not to formulate a ‘list’ for any future man but ‘laughs at my jokes’ is going to be a MUST…
Telling someone who is treating you like shit that you deserve better, then allowing them to continue to treat you like shit is really telling them that even you don’t believe in what you’re saying. Telling YOURSELF that you deserve better and then allowing others to treat you badly tells YOU that you that you don’t believe in yourself. Positive thinking still needs to be backed up with positive actions. What this blog has taught me is that I can’t positive think myself out of bad situations without backing it up with positive actions for my own well being. Negative thoughts about myself (and others) only keep me miserable and stuck in unhealthy cycles. This doesn’t change over night but with small steps and a little self forgiveness you can change. Unless we are dead, we always have better options. It’s up to you to pick them.
nice, jenny 🙂
colourorange,
This is very sad. What I don’t really get is why you (or anyone) cares so much about what other people think of you. Why do they matter? I can see that it can be hard not to care what people think of you when those people are the man you love/your friends/your family/people you have respect for/your boss.
But as we have seen, it’s often a mistake to care what the man we love thinks about us, or some reckless family member or some bully of a boss… etc.
I do care what people think of me, yes: people whose opinion I respect. Not people I don’t know, might never know and def. not people who I think are idiots, show poor judgement or who have no credibility with me, for whatever reason.
But to care so much, so badly about what people you don’t know well yet or even total strangers think of you/might think of you/could think of you – that I don’t get.
Why does what other people think of you matter so much to you? This is perhaps where the answers lies.
Who cares what folk think of you? What difference does it make to you? let them think what they like. Other people are just other people – you are a ‘people’ too! So what you think has at least equal merit. And more merit actually if the judgement is about *you*. Point to the person out there who is the expert on you? Who’s the nutty professor out there who has this PhD, this lifetime of study and industrious examination of ‘colororange’. Who are these colourorange ‘experts’ appointed to cast out their judgements, punishments and rewards on colourorange on a daily basis?
People’s opinions of you color, are just people’s opinions of you – you are free to ignore them and carry on as you are. They are not the law. You are not in the dock. if people have decided they don’t like you, let them, don’t fight them, don’t try to befriend them, just let them not like you. it’s okay. The sky will not fall on your head. Be your own person and let people take you or leave you. You don’t have to convince anybody of anything.
Fearless – You said you don’t get how anyone can care so much about what others think … I won’t speak for colororange but because her anxieties are so familiar to me I’ll say that for myself, I have too often had the experience of going into a social situation, and realizing a few months in that “nobody likes me.” I think you can start to care a LOT when you feel like just being you draws hostility instead of neutrality or collegiality.
For me it had a lot to do with always being both very under-educated, in relation to peers my own age, in how to enter new social groups and social situations, and very over-educated in the dynamics of social hostility.
I am still unlearning social habits borne out of a highly dysfunctional home and being put unprotected and unsupervised into new school situations in racist hicksville prairie provinces where my simply being me meant being verbally abused daily, bullied and physically attacked. I never got to figure out how to “just be” because I had to learn defenses and avoidances before I even learned how to make friends. And I did decide quite early that “I didn’t give a care” what people thought of me, so early that I became adult who really hadn’t learned how people who did care about each other, and wanted to become friends, would behave.
It has been a very zigzaggy line of learning not to care what people think (ie. finding that a familiar situation of rubbing someone the wrong way has happened again, and I need to just let it be rather than rush to investigate and make it worse) while still being mindful of the effect my interactions have on me and on others.
For me it has been as embarrassing as having to learn basic manners as an adult, in some instances. I was raised by two very socially avoidant parents; I have had to fight for the skills I now have. For the longest time, if someone said, “You need to stop caring what others think,” it just sounded to me like “You need to stop caring that everyone dislikes you.”
I think of my poor Dad: there was a guy at his work who would tell him everyone hated him, and my dad would come home with his head hanging. And yet, it is awful, the fact that he took it to heart is what made it so easy to pick on him, and his dislike of them of course made it easy for them to dislike him.
.
While others still actively disliked me, it was very hard to grow the self-esteem and balls to tell them all to go eff themselves (in my head), especially when I would have liked to get along with them, yet also felt I actually didn’t like them much.
I’m still on this learning curve. But I’m learning to really like me, trust me and esteem me – me first, then them. As that changes, the anxieties I feel about my own solitude, and my own compulsions around social interactions, have calmed down a lot.
And of course, people like me better for it. Or I imagine they do; I actually care less now because I care about whether I like me. But still, I like believing that I’m likeable these days: it works for me.
Hey Mags,
Yes, I appreciate what your saying. It’s easier for some than for others. Believe it or not I was painfully shy and lacking confidence in social situations for all of my younger life. I think self assurance improves with age and experience
“But I’m learning to really like me, trust me and esteem me – me first, then them.”
I think that’s got to help. We’ve go to like ourselves and accept ourselves for “who we are” first and foremost. People can smell the anxiety from people who are trying too hard be liked and accepted and it becomes a vicious cirlce. But yes, repeated experiences of open hostility, antipathy and prejudice from others would be very hard to overcome; I appreciate that.
Hi Colorange, Yoghurt and Grace,
I recognise some of the feelings you are talking about. I now believe that low self esteem is not a condition that affects some people and not others for no reason. I think there is always a reason, sometimes we just don`t connect the dots or maybe we don`t want to dig because the stuff is painfull. I`m 49 and just recently recognised the reasons for my low self esteem, which are rooted in childhood. Having a controlling, flirting, rubbernecking dad who had anger problems too and an upbringing that did not allow me to have opinions would have been enough, but was made worse by sexual abuse by my grandfather. It took two “epiphany quality” relationships ( the first with a man who I discovered had a fixation with underage girls- well that opened the floodgates) and a lot of digging with professional help to understand why I feel the way I feel and have let people walk all over me practically all my life. Like Yoghurt, I apologise for breathing, and often feel I`m such a mess nobody`d want me. I know I`m intelligent and observant yet I have trouble believing myself. If I look at something that is white and some asshole says it`s black, I wonder if my eyes are ok. Every single time. You are worried that you`ll be alone if you don`t dance to AC`s tune? Correct, they do leave. And you will feel lonely. Strangely, I manage brilliantly well in all areas of my life except relationships, and I have gone through a lot. I do see a positive shift in myself, but on bad days it seems such a long and rocky road. I`m beginning to understand what Natalie means by putting the focus on yourself, it has to be a POSITIVE focus, and that is an alien proposition to me. I`m really struggling with that, but since I`m at a point of not wanting to ever go back to how things were I`ll just plough ahead and see what happens. I get the general idea, but in practice…..blank. I don`t think a bath with candles will cut it somehow, though I just saw a homoeopath for all the numerous physical stuff I`m struggling with at ( no doubt just my body protesting) and she said; you need to look after yourself as you would after a child.
“I`m beginning to understand what Natalie means by putting the focus on yourself, it has to be a POSITIVE focus…” Thank you! That’s very true!
Telling someone who is hyper-self-conscious and hyper-self-vigilant to “put the focus on yourself” can so easily be misunderstood! I mean, I thought I already focused too much on myself …
It’s subtle to recognize that there is a “quality” of attention. Like you can stare at a painting by standing back and admiring, or going up and trying to see all the brushstrokes, or looking for the flaws, or trying to figure out what label to put on it, or getting jealous that you don’t have that painting, etc. Focus can be all kinds of positive or all kinds of fearful.
I understand that “focus” as the superego quality that is supposed to look after the ego, or the inner parent that is supposed to look after the inner child. In an ideal world, the inner parent is wise, strong, calm, and positive, seeing the child’s potential, and strengths, and correcting mistakes with love and patience. In some of our worlds, our inner parents are just as scared sh*tless as our inner children, or the inner children have all the bravado and “responsible” vibes, such that the overseer in us is actually worried sick, or brutally critical. That quality of attention, that kind of self-focus, is anxious and self-monitoring.
Part of what is so attractive/addictive/compelling to me about romantic relationships is the experience of someone else giving you as close to as much focused attention as you give yourself – and I think we can only assess what good “up close” from someone else feels like when our own internal “up close” is consistently loving, non-judgmental and secure.
Hi Magnolia,
I think to achieve the positive focus we might need to give up the idea of perfection. Or even striving for pefection, which whether we like to admit it or not a lot of us Fallback Girls do (feeling not good enough for the latest AC and trying to win his love is a common thing for us) Perfect childhoods, looks , health and relationships have eluded us ( and millions of other people too, even the ones that look happy on the surface or live in denial). Some experiences can`t be wiped out or fixed so we might never get to be consistently loving, non-judgmental towards ourselves and always feel secure. As long as we tip the balance enough so we just listen to ourselves and trust in our instincts I think that`ll do nicely. That`d be positive without the anxious and self- monitoring. It`ll be enough to assess someone`s “up-close” and follow with action, and we should end up very different places to were we`ve been so far.
Good point, Sushi – it kind of defeats the purpose to be perfectionist about being loving – ! You’re telling it to someone who needs to hear it right here!
Magnolia, I used to know someone who never gave a shite about what people thought about him. He was quite overweight and NOT a Brad Pitt lookalike, and he irritated and was loved by an equal amount of people. Made me smile every time when I saw him look at himself in the mirror in the morning and saying ” Ah, you are bloody gorgeous!!!” 🙂
I love this post and I do want to echo others’ comments to people who are unsure of its validity for the depressed: part of getting better and feeling better IS just realistically looking at things; a depressed, cynical viewpoint is just skewed! You have to challenge your crazy-making depressed view of the world: it is NOT realistic. Colororange and Ella please do not doubt your worth or yourselves: so many people on this site are rooting for you!
I have a freind who has a life that, from the outside, looks fantastic; loads of money, mansion, beautiful daughter, long-term marriage, yada yada…and on the inside it is all a facade, her husband is a jerk, her daughter is not respectful…..and recently she confided that she wished sometimes that she had my life because even though I don’t have kids or a husband or money, my life to her seems more “authentic” which I guess it is. You have to question the “validity” of the information that is making you depressed. Weird fast-forwarding man who freaks out and makes you feel less-than? Why are you considering this man as an authority who can dictate your feelings about you? Even circumstances like losing a job due to mistakes you make or bad choices such as taking drugs, over-indulging in alcohol….at the end of the day there is ( for the large part) ways that you can fix the mistakes that you make ( hopefully)…but often we blame ourselves for the mistakes that others make towards us…that is them. They are idiots, messed-up, unhappy themselves…yada yada…what about celebrating what you have and loving your own life no matter what form it takes? I have to say that right now, I am kind of enjoying my own little house and thesis-writing, diy home-improvement projects, Meet-Up groups etc…I have to thank this website, some books, some solid freinds and yes, the epiphany relationship(s)- both romantic and family-wise- that led me to question my false beliefs that others are the authority on my life and my worth. I am! And as long as you are a kind, loving person and respectful to others no one has the right to tell you how to live! So there:) Happy post-Thanksgiving all! Feeling very thankful for all that I have learned here:)
The guy I dated trolled meet-up groups to find women to date. He always denied it when I asked him about it, but it was also clear those group meetings were more important to him than setting up time to be with me. He usually had at minimum two meet-ups per week, sometimes more. And I was never invited.
My take on “Meet-up” is that it’s like a gigantic fluid world-wide pick-up venue for men. It’s the real-life version of match.com or something similar. That’s got to be a horror for the women, many of whom are probably attending these things to meet eligible emotionally healthy men. I have a male friend in NYC who says the Manhattan meet-ups rival anything he’s ever dreamed of with respect to the ratios of women to men. It’s like a freaking candy store for these guys.
I got such a bad vibe about Meet-Up from the EUM I dated, I doubt I’d ever consider using it even for strictly intellectual pursuits. But good luck!
Nat…THANK YOU!!!
For most of this year I have been feeling sorry for myself in thinking that there was really something wrong with me! I’ve been cursing my ex and his new gf for “betraying” me the way they did. I’ve been wishing…admitdley guilty…for them to have a horrible relationship. But I have finally realized I am a loved person with flaws and all and that is OK!
Last night I got a letter (yes, paper letter) from a person who has become a a really great friend and she thanks me for being in her life and showing her a new light. She has no idea how much her friendship has helped me as well and I realized…wow…I’m not as bad as I thought!
I know I have my attitude and a straightforward personality, but that is what makes me ME and I am really starting to feel proud of it because I see how I am loved and finally getting to love myself. So what if he’s happy? I was happier after I left him! SO what is he’s dating someone I thought was my friend? Good to know now what kind of people I can trust and who to stay clear from. I’ve been beating myself over for this crap for so long and I have forgotten how happy I have been without him all these years! I’m letting go of all things past slowly and I def have you and BR to thank for!
Color Orange,
I wish I could give you a hug right now because I have been where you are now and truth be told, on certain days, at certain times, I still am in my own way. Your words about “I am the common denominator” echoed exactly what I said the other week to a male friend of mine and he reassured me that no, this was not the case, that I had been very “unfortunate” (his word) in terms of the family I lived with (and cried many many tears over for a very long time) and also, rather jokingly, but also quite true, he said, “And darling, you have shit taste for men” and I laughed because, I had to admit that, with perhaps one or two exceptions, he was right!
My point being: I too, struggled with depression and anxiety and have done so and continue even now, to still deal with this in one form or another. YOU are not the “problem” you are worth so much more than you have been led to believe, I know what this is like, I have lived it, but living it does not make it “true”…
I often ask myself, “Why is it always so much easier to believe the bad (negative) things about ourselves than the good (positive) things?” I honestly don’t know, but it has been that way for me much of my life and I am now attempting to change those beliefs and it is, without a doubt, one of THE most difficult things I have ever had to do. But you can do it. You deserve to love yourself 🙂
Sending the very best thoughts your way.
I think that having low expectations can be about protection. If people have been deeply disappointed in the past then it’s logical to think being pessimistic may prevent them from feeling this disappointed again. If you don’t have dreams then you can’t have your dreams taken away and trashed.
Much of the pain, and shock, of a break up for me is not just losing the man, the love, or the relationship, it’s losing the future. It’s losing the one hundred or even one hundred thousand ideas, plans or casual day dreams of what you would do together. A cobweb of thoughts about where your life is going is always present and then suddenly it can be destroyed. It’s like your sense of where you are and where you’re going is ripped away. You lose your future. You lose you’re sense of what your life is and what it will be. You’ve gone from sunbathing on warm beach in the south of France to being pushed out of a helicopter at night and dropped into the arctic ocean. So to not experience this shock, this horror again, we try not to “get our hopes up”, to expect little in the hope that we can’t be disappointed again. Believing the worst may not feel good but it may feel better than being devastated again. At least this is my take on it.
A better choice would be to dream and be optimistic when there is enough evidence to justify it.
Intouch and Lessie,
A lot of what you said made me think about Natalie’s post, what is the benefit of thinking the worst? It is difficult to not think the worst when we’ve lost future dreams and a break up is about loss. Your comments made me think about my future dreams with him. As I reflect, I see he was never in the plane with me or sunbathing on the warm beach with me, even though we talked about both. I was as guilty of future faking as he was. It sure felt good at the time. My future with him was in my imagination. I was flying solo. It wasn’t a co-piloted flight. I fell into the FBG trap of thinking I had superhuman powers and could convince him of how wonderful life could be if he would only choose me. When he didn’t choose me, despite twisting myself into a pretzel with a thousand yummy toppings, I had to take a parachute and jump into the cold artic ocean of reality. I don’t believe the worst. I believe I made a terrible mistake (actually several) but I’m starting to believe in me. I’ve believed in total AC’s and if I’m not a total AC, I deserve the benefit of the doubt, right? I’m thinking I may be starting to trust myself not to get back in the plane and fly solo with an imaginary co-pliot. I’ll run if there is any hint of EUM or AC before the plane takes off. Oh, and there is no such thing as lying MM or otherwise attached arsehole in my future. I’d fly the plane and dump their cheating arses into the Bering Sea sans parachute. It’s about trusting myself. I can do that now. My hopes are up because it’s about me and I trust me to do the right thing for me.
Keep one thing in mind if and when you start tripping on these guys “moving on”: The woman before you was probably lamenting the same thing!
The two women my commitphobic “partner” dated before me both wanted relationships with him (this is according to him). To be honest, they sounded like terrific women: bright, accomplished, attractive, one was 10 years younger than me which puts her 15 years younger than him, etc. They went into the dating scheme with him probably thinking THE SAME THING I THOUGHT: “I want a monogamous relationship and I’ve met someone I like.”
Who was the one who opted out of these situations? He was. The man who claimed he was “desperate for a relationship” was the same guy who said he couldn’t be monogamous. Crazymaking.
I suspect they ignored the signs just like I ignored them. If they (or I) had abused him worse than he abused them, then he would have stayed. But this guy is going to leave a hit parade of women in his wake: broken hearted, pissed off, questioning their sanity and their value, ad nauseam.
I want to advise everybody reading this to look STRONGLY at the relationship these guys had with their opposite sex caregiver. From my experience the man who was abandoned in some way by his mother will turn into a hardcore EUM and will torture good women who come into his life. They’ll be good to the women who abuse him and try to win THEIR love.
It’s the abused becoming the abuser.
The moment I hear about an abusive childhood on a date or in a phone call, I’m out of there. Unless they have had years of therapy, I really don’t see the point.
I understand that not all emotional injuries are limited to abuse or abandonment by the opposite sex caregiver, and certainly there are varying degrees. (My EUM described his relationship with his mother as hot/cold, where she would cuddle him, adore him, shower him with attention, and then disappear on him emotionally for days or weeks at a time likely due to alcoholism). But this is something to strongly keep in mind, especially with this scenario of “Oh god, he’s moved on!” They don’t change from one partner to the next; the damage is too deeply rooted.
Molly – I have to agree with you there as it relates to my AC ex. His mother died when he was a child and he spent his childhood years in foster homes and boys homes. Given his abandonment combined with an abhorrent childhood, he has spent his adult life going from one long-term relationship to another, seeking out a mother figure and the love that he missed out on as a child. He said to me at the beginning of our relationship that if things got too hard he would walk – and that’s what he did. Straight into the arms of another woman. He has played the victim all his life, and while I used to feel sorry for him, I’ve come to realise that there are plenty of other people out there who have had equally bad or worse childhoods, but have still managed to take responsibility for their lives. Unfortunately, this man-child never grew up and will most likely repeat this relationship pattern until the end of his days.
Hi Molly, I agree when you say that the women before us were most likely lamenting the same things we do when we break up with EUMs. The woman that`ll come after us is very likely to have exactly the same experience. Should help us let go. Also, plenty of people react their childhoods off on a partner, yes. But, would your ex stayed with someone who abused him more? Not necessarily, he might want no relationship at all. With anybody.
Equally, I think that abused doesn`t become an abuser always, even without years of therapy, and I`m saying it from a perspective of someone who was abused at 6 years old. It`s not always so black and white. Some people, having had shit childhood want and strive for the opposite. They don`t want to perpetuate the bad. And they don`t turn into abusers. So, I have a low self esteem. I ended up in relationships with EUMs but I was NEVER HAPPY in them and always left a bad situation. I didn`t sleep around on anyone, I didn`t give anyone mixed messages, never avoided commitment ect. My dad is a serial flirter and rubbernecker, but I never did that. I`m conscious of it and I reject it. My sin is I tolerated too much crap behaviour and didn`t flush fast enough, but flush I did. If you collectively asked my exes they would complain that I just got up and left one day. Perhaps I would sound like a serial “dumper”. But I did that because I would not tolerate being cheated on, being the OW, being with an alcoholic or a man who`s “interest” were underage girls. And some of it I did before I was fully conscious of everything that happened to me in childhood. Now, that doesn`t make me an EU, or does it? Yes, you have to be careful, and you have to make a judgement. My psychologist told me that I was ” scratched but not broken” and |I do agree.
OMG!! Molly, Molly, Molly!!
“I want to advise everybody reading this to look STRONGLY at the relationship these guys had with their opposite sex caregiver. From my experience the man who was abandoned in some way by his mother will turn into a hardcore EUM and will torture good women who come into his life. They’ll be good to the women who abuse him and try to win THEIR love. It’s the abused becoming the abuser.”
You are SO right!! My ex was born and raised in Northern Ireland. He told me that his mom never told him that she loved him, was cold, did not show him affection, and would leave him outside, in the cold, on the porch in his crib when he was a baby. He said that his father was a well known politician who wanted his son to follow in his footsteps. My ex said that his dad was hard on him because his dad felt that being the oldest son, he never lived up to his dad’s expectations. He also told me that he was using the woman he dated before me and would lead her on telling her that he loved her (he said that he was speaking in the moment and knew from the start that he could never feel as strongly for her as he did for the ex gf that criticized and rejected him). When the toxic ex that dumped him popped back into the picture for an ego stroke, he dumped the rebound girl and tried to get back with his ex. She told him there was no future, so he and I started seeing each other (me foolishly thinking that I would be the exception to the rule!) . When I came to my senses and realized that he was still carrying a torch for his ex, and did not see a future with me, I bailed. He then tried to get back with the ex that dumped him, but when she rejected him for the umpteenth time, he started dating someone else. He has a pattern of being attracted to women who don’t really love him (he was married for almost 20 years to a woman whom he said was controlling and manipulative), and who criticize and try to change him.
I have learned my lesson from this experience, and will not allow myself to get into this type of situation again.
I read this post and, as with all other posts, it makes sense, it’s clear, it’s obviously “right. ” Yet, I constantly find myself slipping into feeling rejected, first, by my husband of 11 years who no longer wants to be with me and second, by an EU/MM with whom my “relationship” never really stood a chance. A good friend of mine constantly reminds me of how neither of these men rejected me…yet I keep slipping back into feeling that way. I know my soon-to-be ex-husband is off enjoying himself with friends and very likely a woman, and the other jerk is either back home with his family or off trying to woo some other unsuspecting woman. Both of these men have their issues (my husband is likely bipolar and has a lot of pent up anger, and the other guy suffers from depression and is immature in so many ways). As I write this, I see how much better off I am without either of them, yet, I’m alone. I come home, alone, to an empty house (except for my cat) every night. And they’re not alone. And I keep thinking that neither of them wanted to be with me, so what’s wrong with me? I know that there are decent, kind men out there, but I have yet to meet one…who is eligible, I mean. Well, enough of the pity party, but still…sometimes it’s so hard and discouraging. I try to believe in myself but then doubt creeps in.
Amy
There are other people in the world besides these two.
You belong to a church. I can’t move without being invited to some event or other – housegroups, social groups, women’s groups, singles groups, bible studies, prayer meetings. If your church doesn’t do those things – how about finding another church instead of continuing with this one so you can maintain a tenuous connection with a MM.
If you are home alone it’s not their fault. They’ve got nothing to do with you. That’s your responsibility.
And as we are talking about belief – I don’t believe that God wants this for you – a MM or a serial seducer. He made you for better things and you should believe him.
why not take a break from men and relationship-seeking? When you are more grounded in yourself, when you have your own friends, hobbies, and interests., when you’re BUSY and have no time for a relationship – that’s when the right man will turn up! And if he doesn’t, at least you’ll be HAPPY.
What you are doing now is not achieving very much. I know cos I’ve done it too and there wasn’t even a cat.
Natalie you say why expect the worst from men? Well because the worst did happen. I’m 24 and trying to find someone on my intellectual level is difficult. Why do guys in their twenties just want to drink and score as much women as possible? I’m finding it difficult to find anyone who actually wants a relationship. They all say they do, but actions speak louder than words. I’m sick to death if the media complaining that women are having children too late. Easy for them to say? What man wants to settle down in his twenties? Not many from my experience.
FedUp
You are absolutely determined to believe this, despite the fact that many of us, of various ages and with quite considerable experience, responded to this exact same question of yours only a few days ago. Do you read the responses or are you just venting?
In fact, most of your questions are a variation on the same theme of men are all bastards. Why do you need to believe this? You’re 24, I’m going to pull out the age card and say that’s very young to be so sure. Who knows what the next five years, or even the next year, will bring if you lift your head and heart up high.
And mix with better people (as I said before).
No worries, though, I type very quick so it’s not a big deal for me to keep repeating myself.
Fed-up,
My daughter is 22 and a half years old. She has has a boyfriend. He is 24 yrs – 25 in January. They have been seeing each other a couple of years. She seems very happy with him (I fink she loves him!) he is attentive and loving towards her (I fink he loves her!). He shows her care and love and respect and she shows him the same. He has been working about 300 miles away since October (a six months thing – so temporary). He calls her everyday – yes, they “talk”! They text / they skype a couple of times a week / they facebook. He comes home every two weeks; she visits him where he is every two weeks – so they never go more than two weeks without having at least a whole weekend together. And they make plans! Yes, plans! S’truth! For their summer hols and their weekend outings and concerts/gigs and all god knows what else! Who knows what the future holds – but they are a lovely wee couple… awww… so nice, caring of each other.
It happens, Fed-up, there are good guys out there who want a good g/friend. So, stop being so Fed-up! You are going to become a self-fulfilling prophecy! You’re the prophet of doom. Dump the negativity or you’ll continue to attract it. I believe in love! It just doesn’t look like what I thought it looked like! But even I can believe – and I have been shat on from great heights – more than once!…And am still cleaning up the mess so that better things can have a chance to happen to me (and I’m over 49 yrs old! Don’t make me say it. hee hee.)
Fedup,
“you say the worst has happened to me” and it made me think……I certainly don’t think that men are all evil and looking at the way life is gaining experience when you are young is surely what it is all about. Sure some men are shallow, men whores in their twenties if they can have half a chance but there are also some shallow women as well. Looking back, given that I am nearly 50 herw’s some of the “worst” things that happened to me..I put it down to life and got back up and moved on with my life..being dumped..yeah got over that!, being cheated on..yes got over that, getting pregnant and then dumped..yes got over that, lost my job..that was bad, recovered from that, was bullied at work..overcame that…went into a mental hospital..came out got over that…broke my back….wuldn’t walk for 6 months to a year got over that..so yes the WORST does happen but you know what YOU get over MOST things and find you enjoy life again. Its a bit like when you get a new car and see cars just like your own all over the place. You can choose to only see what you have ie a low downer on men right now OR you can choose to own some of your stuff and get on with your life.
Fedup,
From the bitterness I have read in your comments, and the fierceness with which you hold onto your generalizations about how crap “they” all are, I seriously thought you were much older (with apologies to us older ladies! I think you’ll know what I’m saying here!). I pictured you very differently, perhaps with frown lines and the lines of pursed, tight lips etched into your face!
But you’re 24! (This is me readjusting my mental image.) You must be angry for more than one reason, FedUp, or angry from an early injustice … it’s totally okay to bitch about things and even be “a bitch” … but to be spitting bitterness unrelentingly has got to be the worst way to let these guys win.
I’m learning from you, FedUp, because I have been pissed-off most of my life, and when I read your comments, I remember sounding similar. Thing is, I thought, gee, I must start getting over my anger, because I’ll end up stuck in it forever, like FedUp – because I thought you were near the end of a long angry life, and seeing more angry years of experience behind you than possibility of good ones ahead.
Now I learn even more from you because I see that you are young and yet so bitter, and that makes me both sad for you and pissed off at the ACs. I think I’m still young enough that I could imagine an older woman looking at me and thinking I still have lots of time ahead of me; and how awful it would be if a few, or even two dozen, ACs managed to destroy my softness, my hope, my humour, and my optimism.
You’ve got to fight for your right to party.
Learn to value yourself, which means to fight for your happiness.
Ayn Rand
You are strong. . . when you take your
grief and teach it to smile.
You are brave. . . when you overcome your
fear and help others to do the same.
You are happy. . . when you see a flower
and are thankful for the blessing.
You are loving. . . when your own pain
does not blind you to the pain of others.
You are wise. . . when you
know the limits of your wisdom.
You are true. . . when you admit
there are times you fool yourself.
You are alive. . . when tomorrow’s hope means
more to you than yesterday’s mistake.
You are growing. . . when you know what
you are but not what you will become.
You are free. . . when you are in control of
yourself and do not wish to control others.
You are honorable. . . when you find
your honor is to honor others.
You are generous. . . when you
can take as sweetly as you can give.
You are humble. . . when you
do not know how humble you are.
You are thoughtful. . . when you see me
just as I am and treat me just as you are.
You are merciful. . . when you forgive in
others the faults you condemn in yourself.
You are beautiful. . . when you
don’t need a mirror to tell you.
You are rich. . . when you never
need more than what you have.
You are you. . . when you are
at peace with who you are not.
Thank you, Lo J, for sharing this. Did you write it?
Thoughtful…Nice. Simple. Direct. True. Thanks for taking the time to share that LoJ
I have 2 to share:
After Awhile (Veronica A. Shoffstall)
Ater awhile you learn the subtle difference between holding a hand and chaining a soul and you learn that love doesn’t mean leaning and company doesn’t always mean security. And you begin to learn that kisses aren’t contracts and presents aren’t promises and you begin to accept your defeats with your head up and your eyes ahead with the grace of a woman, not the grief of a child and you learn to build all your roads on today because tomorrow’s ground is too uncertain for plans and futures have a way of falling down in midflight. After awhile you learn that even sunshine burns if you get too much so you plant your own garden and decorate your soul instead of waiting for someone to bring you flowers. And you learn that you really can endure you really are strong you really do have worth and you learn and you learn with every goodbye, you learn…
I was afraid I’d run out of room… ” May you trust that you are exactly where you are meant to be. May you not forget the infinite possibilities that are born of faith in yourself and others…May you use the gifts that you have received and pass on the love that has been given to you. May you be content with yourself just the way you are…Let this knowledge settle into your bones and allow your soul the freedon to sing, dance, praise and love. It is there for each and every one of us.” (author unknown)
Intotouch,
“A cobweb of thoughts about where your life is going is always present and then suddenly it can be destroyed. It’s like your sense of where you are and where you’re going is ripped away. You lose your future. You lose you’re sense of what your life is and what it will be. You’ve gone from sunbathing on warm beach in the south of France to being pushed out of a helicopter at night and dropped into the arctic ocean”…
WOW. When I read your words, it nearly took my breath away because you have described, exactly, ALL of the many thoughts and emotions I have felt (and still feel, even now sometimes)…
Yes, it is the loss of an “imagined” future that is so very heartbreaking and painful to deal with: all the talk, all the plans, all the trips to be taken, joys to be shared, etc…in an instant, it seems, it all vanished, into thin air and then you are left, standing there, wondering what happened and for me, at least, it also felt very disorienting as in: I remember feeling very dizzy, as if I would fall over if I stood up, it was as if my visual perception was gone and there was no solid ground underneath me anymore.
I usually am not on the computer on Sundays, but when I read your post last night, I thought, “I have to at least make my own post with regards to this and let this person know how very much her words have resonated with me, thank you for this 🙂
Sending good thoughts to you.
All of us have struggled with some kind of depression or dysfunction or we wouldn’t be here. We’d be off living a happy, healthy life. So, unfortunately, we are going to have to swim against the current to attain that — whether it be working doubly to change our thought processes, medication, reading self-help books, therapy, daily affirmations, and surrounding ourselves with people who are positive and healthy as we want to be. Or, we can just throw our hands up and say, SCREW IT!! This is the way I am, I’m doomed, life sucks, I’ve been dealt a bad hand and I am going to continue to belief and choose to live this way.
Yes. It SUCKS. It does. Whether it is physiological, environmental or whatever. BUT, we have choices. And options. It takes A LOT of hard work. And it isn’t fair that we have to overcome it. Its not. But in the end, it is worth it. And it is better than being stuck and miserable. And we don’t have to be miserable. We don’t!
I struggled with depression for MANY years. And I’m finally on the right meds. And after several attempts at therapy, different therapists, and reading my ass off and working, working, working, I get it! I don’t know if I’ll go through a depression again. But I went through a major break-up and was fired from my job in the last four months and I miraculously have not made it about my worth. That is progress.
Prayers for EVERYBODY!! Wish I knew where you guys were! I live in Texas, BTW. That’s why I talk funny!
Oh, and Color, all those books you have read? They may not have done you any good now, as you have claimed, but later on down the road, you’ll remember bits and pieces that you’ve read and it will be applicable. So, it hasn’t been a waste of your time. Keep on keeping on.
I used to post on here a lot, about a year ago after a break -up with an EUM/assclown. I went on to meet a woman (I’m bisexual) who was *exactly* like him (lazy communication, drip-feeding, games). They even smiled the same way! Anyway, I’m basically at a point where men are out of the question and the woman has to be pretty special.
While your blog has helped me tons, Nat, as I approach 40 my beliefs are that I’m too old, I have a child, I’m educated and relatively comfortable, so I don’t need a man…What guy would want me anyway?
It’s really hard to shake these beliefs and yup, I’ve acted on them to such an extent that I’m surprised when a man is interested in me! I actually feel lucky that I have the option to date women because they are much more accepting of age, body differences, and family situation. Men seem to have a laundry list (under 30, blonde, not smarter than he is…) and I just don’t measure up.
I’ll admit to feeding into media garbage, but I just don’t know what to do. I’ve literally brainwashed myself of even looking at men and wanting them in my life. However, as my story shows, women can be equally cr*ppy as men, so my thinking is completely illogical and self-defeating.
Charla, Seems you will “settle” for a woman b/c you can’t find the right man…please keep yourself out of the running until you realise you are lovable and capable of loving the right person for you and who is capable of loving you in return…being bi you up the chances IF you choose wisely. Good luck…but please don’t create another train wreck and heart ache for anyone else (which so easily could occur in your present frame as I read it)…40 with kids is young…as you wrote, you found the same traits in a different package…that is where you need to investigate and arm yourself with tools and not buy into the media disinformation…I wish you well.
Lo J, Natasha and Runner Girl,
I wish I could give you all a big hug right now 🙂
Lo J: I am sorry about your recent losses; I can relate, as I also have had a bad job situation (not fired, as you have been, but I have had my hours cut back, shortly after moving and signing a lease, no less) and experienced a very bad break up this past summer so yes, I very much agree with what you said here: that you have not allowed these things to determine your value, and I am trying to do that as well for my own self. Stay strong sweetie.
Natasha and Runner Girl, as always, your comments are so spot on and resonate so much with me, thank you. Runner Girl, the bit about Martha Stewart, SO true! “Here’s something you can do with leftover turkey, and some Christmas tinsel that will really wow your man”…and like yourself, apart from reading the occasional “Vogue” I also stay far away from women’s magazines…they are too messed up and only end up making me feel even worse usually.
Natasha, absolutely hilarious! “Cosmo” is the worst offender, for sure. “Natasha’s Life Lessons”…yes, I only wish I had had this site years ago, to come to, it would have saved me SO much wasted time, energy and tears, oh well, better late than never I guess 🙂
Good happy thoughts to you all!
Grace- yes I read everyone’s responses everytime. It’s difficult for me to believe otherwise, when life proves that they are bastards. I didn’t have a normal introduction to dating. I was actually date raped by someone when u was younger. Thanks to our jusctice system I didn’t have enough proof and he got off. How can I ever feel good about that? And for the millionth time I did go to counseling. Didnt give me ant justice though.
Fedup, I have to agree that in all honesty, I thought you were in Shady Pines territory age wise by your comments. I hear you on date rape and no-one is here to invalidate what happened or your feelings surrounding it. I learned about date rape as a teenager in the 90s when it was a heavily discussed topic in the media. Whether you are raped or date raped, the sheer number of people who are successfully prosecuted, never mind the number that are *reported* is miniscule. I know *many* people who have experienced date rape and unfortunately I’m all too familiar even from personal experience of how it can mess with your mind.
That said, no doubt you’ll get arsey with me like you did with Grace, but you do not write comments like someone who *went* to counseling and was *counseled*. You write comments like someone who went to counseling and was like ‘I’m angry, I didn’t get justice, all men are bastards, what the eff is this numpty counselor talking about, none of this will make a difference, I will never get over this, I’m angry, I want revenge, how can they get away with this, all men are bastards, the whole world is against me’.
It’s the same with the reading. You read and then it’s like ‘Whatever, I’m angry’
I had a woman stand before me at the BR birthday party who has been raped several times as a child and as an adult. I am and was truly humbled by how positive and determined this woman is and who is fighting tooth and nail for a better life and has not given up on herself. Another friend of mine was raped, mutilated and had to pretend to be dead to survive. She refuses after years of counseling to be a victim or allow what happened to dictate her life. She is married with a baby doing a great job, living abroad. She’s done amazing work for charity, written a book, overcome all sorts and is still standing. You, these women and every woman who has ever been raped and abused has a right to be angry – but what happened does not have to be your life, where it effectively ends with the day of the crime.
Being angry is a natural response and a necessary part of grieving and dealing with a traumatic situation. You have remained angry and are intent on remaining angry and talk often of revenge and querying why people get away with stuff and how you’re the perfect girlfriend. You did not deserve to be date raped. You did not deserve to be treated as you were by your ex or any other guy you’ve been with, but please seek additional professional support before you are 34, 44, 54, or 64 saying the same thing. You have a right to be angry, but you also have a right to move on, a right that only you can grant.
If you don’t, you will wake up one day and have regret for the fact that you have thrown away your life and feel exactly the same at, for example, 54, as you do at 24, when you could have made a difference to your own life. By then, when for example 30 years have passed, you won’t be able to blame the twat who took advantage of you – you’ll know that you have to be accountable for you and what happens next.
NML/Magnolia/FedUp
I always thought that FedUp was young, lol! Just goes to show how perfectly intelligent people can differ in their perceptions and beliefs. As I’m in my 40s and way less bitter and cynical about men than I was in my 20s/30s, my assumption was that FedUp must be much younger than me (isn’t everyone, ha!). I’m in that age group where most of my friends are in their 40s/50s and even 70s/80s. We are quite a mellow, easygoing lot, not bitter at all. Don’t be afraid girls, it doesn’t all end when you’re 40.
It’s not over yet, FedUp. Don’t give up the fight – but fight better and in a way that will benefit YOU. Even as I sit here, I can feel the physical twinges from the injuries inflicted by the abusive AC. It’s not all been happy clappy for me either. But I am very okay now.
I also felt Fed-Up was young and kept waiting for her “handle” to change…I also experienced the “bitter” with youth…ah, a thought I had for Fed-Up and others was hypnotherapy. I went to one when I could not get over rapes and other traumas in youth and it worked…just another idea to consider…she was great and although I don’t recall a thing about the experience, the feelings that were so intense became manageable. Life does go on if you allow it…time does work wonders if you also work with it. Doing the work isn’t easy as so many of us testify…but managing the anger and getting the sweetness rather than allowing the bad to take over and destroy is so very important. We do have control over our behaviors and can learn to control our reactions to life; although many seem to ignore that. Peace.
Yep, Grace – am with you; I always assumed fed-up was very young and for the same reasons. I don’t think you get more bitter as you get older (well, I don’t) – you learn to cope, roll more with the punches, see yourself as ‘separate’; you gain more self-assurance and yes, become more mellow cos you have learned, in many ways at least, what really matters and what really doesn’t matter; you learn what is really important in life and what is important to you (and it’s not what you thought it was in your mid -twenties) – perhaps also as you get older you have a keener sense of your own mortality; I certainly find myself at funerals on a fairly regular basis now (some of these being people I grew up with of my own age or not much older); you become also keenly aware of just how tenuous life is – just how suddenly it can all be over – so I don’t want to spend the rest my life sucking lemons!
Where here’s another perspective – I thought FedUp was older than everyone here, not because of bitterness but more like sounding like she’d lived her entire life and seen more bastards than you can shake a stick at. I nearly fell off my chair at 24.
There’s this brilliant quip by lord Sugar “What I know about bullshit, you haven’t even learned yet.”
FedUp, there are women here of all ages who are basically saying you can get over something terrible no matter what age you are. Don’t let this anger dictate your whole life. Change and happiness can happen at any age. If I had a choice between trying to be happy through positive endeavours or spending my life being angry, I know what I’d choose and I say this as someone that’s had to make the choice.
‘justice’ doesn’t mean everyone knows about it or the perpetrator gets punished or you don’t have to do a lot of work to resolve your feelings. My friends who have successfully seen their rapists imprisoned, in the end still had to do a lot of emotional work and do justice to *themselves*.
Isn’t that the biggest injustice of them all, that because people have committed crimes against us we now have to use all our engergy to fight for ourselves?
Thats what I hate the most, things that happened to me I did not choose to happen, but happen they did now ernormous amounts of time are spent ‘fixing’ me over stuff I had no say in.
I don’t like having a victim mentality and have struggled and fought not to but I feel robbed because I will never know who I would have been if various events had not happened to me.
I think I’d probably be a person of self esteem, happy and quite possibly in a mutual relationship.
But it is all a fight with times where I have wanted to lay down and die. I must have made progress somewhere because these times are rare now.
I sincerely hope and have done for a while that Fedup will reach a point where she sees herself as someone worth standing up and fighting for. Though it is unjust that we have to do this in the first place and the journey is rough somewhere along the line a point will be reached in your life where you are satisfied and reasonably content with life.
Thats what keep me trying despite many failures I don’t want to die having not achieved happiness and satisfaction in life.
@FedUp: I’m sorry to hear that happened to you. Like the others who have responded, I want to say the fury and sense of injustice that you feel makes total sense.
Do you ever feel simple hatred for anyone and everyone who hasn’t been through what you have? I discovered by writing some unsent letters that I felt that way, that the unnamed rage that springs up so often is a feeling that deep deep down I want everyone to hurt the way I do/have.
I found starting my letters with: “Fuck you ____ and fuck you ______ and you too, _______, you stupid fuck” etc, actually really helped … 😮
I came to see that it’s not wrong to feel that way, especially after the kind of experiences that some of us have had. What is torturous is trying to function as a happy, pleasant individual with a murderous rage careening about inside you. As Natalie said, the feelings that need addressing don’t get addressed simply by seeing someone get punished and finding justice.
Counselling doesn’t give you justice. But it might finally help you rid yourself of the poisonous stuff that injustices have left in your system, and that continue to control you just now.
@Nat, Grace, Leisha, Fearless: Thank you for those details and for reminding me that those who have suffered deeply triumph when they learn how to free themselves of suffering’s grip.
Each day I shed another layer of anger-humiliation-fury. I do some work and the ugly feeling rises to the surface to be examined then shed, like an ugly dead skin I no longer need or want. If this is what it means to unload my baggage, I look forward to lots more lightening and brightening up!
Thank you for the kind words of optimism everyone, it is nice, but I am struggling too. I fall head-over-heals with men who I desire sexually, because I just don’t have that with my husband, but you know what, he is the only man who has ever cared, paid my bills, etc for 20 years of my Goddam waste of a life.
None of these other men regardless of how hot or good in bed they are or were, have ever treated me nicely, but due to my hormones hitting ‘sexual’ late in life (38), men were suddenly on the agenda.
I blame society. I wanna blame someone.
We are led to believe that if we are not having sex and producing kids and have friends around us like the women in Sex and the City, there is something wrong with us. We feel bad that no matter how much we tell ourselves we are beautiful, someone else as we speak is getting rooted, and it could be from anyone, but the fact is they are having sex and someone is telling them they are hot, beautiful, etc.
But it ain’t me
And that sucks.
Sucks because I know this latest man I obsess and fantasise about doesn’t give s sh*t about me, even though my behaviour was crazier than Glenn Close’s and my desire to get back at my then “girlfriend” (who was his ex-partner many years ago) for her and her gay/bi boyfriend, setting me up and tricking me bout his coming over to see me, playing games with me, and my jealousy at her and her ability to basically “diss” him but at the same time tease him so that I graffitied all these obsessive messages using her name instead of mine outside the poor man’s flat. I am peri-menopausal, I have family health problems, I have severe OCD, the most severe that it would make the literature.
I have only got myself to blame.
Only because society says I shouldn’t be be happy because I am not having intimacy and sex with my husband.
Ptooie to that. Since when did we feel we all have an entitlement to sex?
And now that I know what it’s about and I hear and see of others getting it, of course I am angry and feel cheated.
It’s life. Basically.
Realism.
No psychotherapist, or Cognitive Behavioural Therapist is gonna fix me because I am BEYOND being fixed.
I sabotage everything in my life, men, friendships, or they mistreat me and I don’t think I am a bad person, I just have lots of mental health issues, but no-one, or rarely no-one sees beyond this.
The only man who sees any worth in me is my husband. So he doesn’t wanna f*ck me nor I wanna f*ck him.
Somehow I have to get over it.
I give up.
ella
i shared this before but will repeat it. I know a woman who was married for around 20 years to a man who was not interested in sex, though they did have children – it was pretty much the only time they did eet. When the family was complete, the sex stopped altogether. She felt undesirable, unattractive and unhappy. He turned out to be gay (not saying this is the case for you). They divorced. As she was going through menopause, she met a widower who asked her to go to a play – about the menopause! He was the only man in the audience. They are now married. I think they have sex but I didn’t ask.
It’s not too late for you.
You are married. Any decent male will not be with you as long as you are. And this man who adores you? You are endangering him as well as yourself with your sexual proclivties outside of marriage. Even if I were married I’d be damned if I’d sleep with someone doing as you say you are. I truly hope you get help and stop the abuse to you and your spouce. Get a divorce if you can’t be true to your husband. You are treating him as many of the men treat their spouces with their mistresses and it is just plain wrong. The other issues that you have can be treated but your behavior needs to be addressed and some self control exhibited or you will continue this downward cycle. I don’t know what you hoped to find here. I hope you find what you need. Obviously what you are doing and believing isn’t working for you in any positive sense.
FedUp
Most of us won’t get justice in the traditional sense, although between us we’ve been raped, sexually abused, physically abused and robbed/defrauded. Most of these crimes won’t see the inside of a court. I didn’t use to know what it meant to “move on”, “accept” and “let go”. I thought it mean overlooking the crime. It doesn’t mean that at all. We do have to acknowledge the seriousness of what has been done to us. You don’t need a court to do that. It would be better for the world if the perpetrators were prosecuted, but you know what you know. No-one can take that away from you.
Most men are not not like this, not even a sizable minority. However, we still have to be careful. But not to the point of bitterness, paranoia and negativity. Unfortunately, it’s self-fulfilling. If you feel bad, then you will make bad choices. You mix with people who make bad choices. You pick men who are not reliable or even downright dangerous. Logic dictates that, in our state and with our experiences, we wouldn’t take that risk and we would pick better. But we do what we know, and so we pursue the wrong path.
You are not happy. And that unhappiness is the key to unlocking your potential. It’s the universe’s way of telling you that there is something better out there for you.
Counselling isn’t a magic bullet. I am sure that up and down the land there are counselors patiently, patiently, patiently pointing out to their poor, battered, crushed clients that they have options. But we’re not listening because the noise in our own heads is so loud. It’s not the fault of the counselor (unless he/she is completely useless, which I haven’t experienced). I’ve had four psychiatrists/counsellors over 20+ years. It was slow progress but I got there and am still getting there.
You have options.
Fed Up:
With the things that I’ve gone through in my life (rape wasn’t one of those things, there but for the grace go I), I was an enraged bomb waiting to explode. Instead, I quietly imploded (that’s what introverts do). I could’ve died because of it. But because I realized that I’d imploded, I sought help & got it.
Don’t let the anger eat you up so much inside. You are way too young to die, and surely you have so much more ahead of you. Bless.
Well, I’m pretty down at the moment too. Grandmomster (I went NC with my momster years ago, but her mother contacted me repeatedly during the recent years, doing heavy “guilt-tripping” every time) called me on my cell yesterday. My cell number (which I had for more than a decade) is more or less the only way they can still contact me (luckily, they have neither my new postal address nor my landline).
I ended the call as soon as grandmomster said hello. Then she called again and got redirected to my mailbox. I deleted her message without listening to it.
And I feel so guilty, so horrible! How could any daughter/granddaughter be so “evil” as to not want to talk to any of her parents/grandparents anymore? How can I be so scared sh…less of all of them? Why do I feel I would have to commit suicide if I stayed in touch with them, because that would be the only way to please them? Maybe I’m really such a horrible, horrible person?
It’s still difficult for me to let go. I know I have to face the truth sooner or later. They all hated me, and I can’t do anything about it. They hated me because they are toxic people. My whole family is/was toxic. I still don’t want to believe it.
I know it’s time to get a new cell number. I’ve been postponing this step for weeks, using excuses like “I don’t want to give up that number after all those years!” “It’s so complicated! So many people have that number, and I would have to to notify them all!” “If I changed my cell number to hide away from my own family, wouldn’t that make me a very very bad girl?”. Excuses.
I had my number for almost 10 years before I moved very far away, and 99% of the family didn’t get any of my new information. If I feel stronger around toxic relatives and/or other toxic persons, I’ll restart contact. If I still can’t deal despite feeling stronger, oh well. 😐
If it saves you from stress, by all means, change the number and block all toxic people as best as you can. Easier said than done, of course. Wishing you the best.
I’d like to add that it was grandmomster who always told me my own mother “spoiled me”. She claimed any “sane” parent would treat me much worse than momster did. And I think I already mentioned how horribly my own mother abused me. Plus, I had to go to school everyday and get bullied like crazy by my schoolmates there without any support.
And still, grandmomster told me I was the most horrible, lazy, bad, evil spoiled brat in the world! I only saw hatred and contempt in her face. I wished she would help me in any way – but she did the opposite!!!
I wondered: What did I do wrong? Why couldn’t I win her love, or at least her respect? Why oh why???
According to my grandparents, I destroyed the whole family because my hair was messy and because my table manners weren’t perfect. That was why all people pointed their fingers towards us, that was why our family fell out of grace everywhere! Because of me!!!
Truth told, my grandparents had a marriage that was basically incestuous. My grandfather married a very close relative who was several decades younger than he (momster, however, was his first wife’s daughter – unless they lied to me about that point). In many legislations, this kind of marriage wouldn’t even be legal (in my country, it’s legal, but a strict no-no).
And yet they told me they were the one perfect family in the world and all evil, all shame came from me! I destroyed it all! I alone!!!
Sigh.
EllyB, change your number and don’t even hesitate about it. Your family has a history of abusing very basic boundaries – you refusing to participate anymore or to say that what they’re doing is OK challenges their status quo. It is the same as families where there is sexual abuse that one parent or other family members turn a blind eye to or deny, even if they’re victims of it themselves. When one family member speaks out, they react badly because it challenges their carefully constructed ‘reality’ based on lies.
Your reality and theirs are very different. You will never be ‘in sync’.
There is no point trying to understand abusers and essentially people who will shag their own relatives, as if they have some special rules that apply to them. You don’t think like they do. If you were thinking like them, you’d still be in the thick of things. What they’ve done is hideous and evil, no questions asked. None of it was your fault, all of the stuff they said to was lies and mind fuckery to try to force you to normalise abuse. They’re obviously not the perfect family. You’re an intelligent woman EllyB – obviously you know that they’re not perfect and they’re in fact incestuous, abusing criminals. Just because someone tells you they’re something doesn’t make it so. I could tell you that I’m the singing equivalent of Beyonce while singing like Frankie from XFactor (like listening to someone strain notes out of his arse) – you have to make up your own mind.
You’ve broken their cycle of abuse. Leave them to abuse one another, cut the mofo’s off and stop feeling guilty for what is, quite frankly, self-preservation.
I responded without seeing Natalie’s response. Natalie pretty much said it all.
Elly B, please change your cell number…it will just be another brave and appropriate reaction to add to the courageous way you have chosen to live your life.
These people choose these tactics with you to make you conform. At some level, you ‘returning to the fold’ would allow them to justify or minimize their abuse of you.
I feel your guilt and have been there too. The self doubt and guilt is there because basically you have been drip-fed at a vulnerable age that you were wrong to feel as you do. You were not wrong.
You were right and must be a strong woman to have left this behind you.
Don’t falter, remember if you change the cell phone number you will immediately get rid of the stress that comes when she makes the call and when you recognise the number. You will lessen the guilt trip.
You destroyed nothing,they destroyed themselves and your relationship by their behaviour,you are not culpable for their mistakes. Reject this from your life… you cut off contact so that you could begin to build. Keep on building, moving on,praise yourself for this, feel great about it!
Congratulations on your awesome bravery Elly B.
EllyB,
I`s the worst thing being betrayed by the people who are suppsed to love and protect you. Trust yourself and don`t feel guilty. Thinking of you.
It’s interesting & funny, you know – those of us who try to break away from the matrix, so to speak, are the ones ostracized & considered black sheep. You’d think that people would appreciate the fact that “Hey, something isn’t right here. I need to break the cycle.” But au contraire, mon freres & soeurs. 😐 Many times, people don’t want to upset the balance, no matter how shaky & dysfunctional that balance is. This isn’t just in terms of toxic families or family members (as in EllyB’s case), but also in terms of the main focus of this blog – ourselves AND our romantic relationships.
By blocking them, EllyB, you are breaking the cycle not just for yourself, but possibly for future generations. Get out of the matrix, my dear. Change that number. If leaving the matrix is wrong, do you wanna be right?
“If leaving the matrix is wrong, do you wanna be right?” I feel like clapping. Spot on Spinster.
@Thank you so much, Natalie, Lynda, Sushi and Spinster! I got a new cell phone number last night and busied myself notifying all important places (bank, insurance, employer, e-mail password recovery and the like) afterwards. And no, it wasn’t a big deal at all. Bottom line: Why did I wait that long???
I think it was a very important step for me (cutting that “last tie”), even if the consequences have yet to sink in. This morning, I woke up after another horrible nightmare – starring: Momster. Once I was awake, I remembered my brand new cell number and told myself: Don’t worry anymore, Elly. It’s all over. She can’t harm you anymore. She’s gone. And the rest of the pack as well.
Btw, I was raised strictly Christian, but in my imagination, God always looked (still does!) exactly like my grandfather (the one who married his young, close relative). Like my grandfather, whom I can barely remember, this “God” seems to hate me intensely and to watch me incessantly, always ready to punish me for even the smallest “transgression”.
By not believing my family’s stories anymore and listening to all those “evil” normal people instead, I’ve finally fallen for “the devil”, according to my family’s logic. They don’t need to tell me that now, because this message has been firmly planted into my head before I turned 10.
It’s very difficult to get rid of this whole concept. I’m telling myself it doesn’t matter whether my mind still believes my grandfather is “God”. The only thing that matters is that I made a choice. That choice is against my grandfather, his daughter and that whole other mess. MY choice. I’ve chosen my own truth. Maybe that truth comes from some higher power. But ultimately, it’s my truth.
I guess I’m slowly starting to understand what powerful forces are holding those people together. For months, I’ve been telling myself (and my counselor) “I know I’ve been sexually abused. But I. absolutely. refuse. to. remember. a. thing.”.
It’s as if I’ve finally opened another door by changing my phone number. I still don’t remember any actual events, but tonight, I suddenly had the strong feeling that there were more horrible things in my childhood. Things that are too bad to even think of. Things that are bad enough to keep them “under the lid” forever, at all cost. Or at least that’s what I used to believe. Now I know that “keeping them under the lid” only makes them worse.
I think handling those memories is going to be a very hard fight, but isn’t it basically a fight I’ve already won? Whatever it was, I’ve survived it. The worst is behind me.
YIPPEEEEEEE!!!!! Good for you EllyB! 🙂 Your journey out of the matrix continues. Come along, be wrong with me. 😉
This is a good one – curl up with some nachos kinda good one. Might comment more later but just wanted to say that.
Nat you are reading my mind today – “Stop looking for the easy way out of stretching yourself. You’re telling yourself the worst and then devoting your life to discovering ‘evidence’ to support your thinking. ” Not that this has anything to do with relationships with other people – more of my relationship with myself… Auditions are coming up for a Burlesque show I would love to do but… I’m scared to even try. I’ll seen the others in the troop – they are looking for new members that can dance – I can… but… I haven’t auditioned for anything in years – too much childhood trauma that is hard to face, bad memories from being dragged around from one audition to the next as a child. I am afraid I will choke… like the last time. Wish I could get past this. Hubby supports it – why can’t I see myself through his eyes… ARRRGGGG!!!!! I know – I hear you – It’s never too late to start thinking better of you. Start now. What do I have to lose… but still – there is that word again … but
Your ex is not on house arrest until you decide that you’re in a good enough situation for them to move on.
This one really resonated with me. ” I thought Natalie really, they don’t it sounds good though”, lol!
I thought for the longest time that I needed to be living better than him to feel good about myself.
I even thought recently that a friend who found a decent guy didn’t go as long as I have between boyfriends and has not put in the same work as me as far as getting a healtier mind, why does she get the decent boyfriend before me.
I think she must of reached the healthier mind before me because I did the other thing you mentioned:
Stop looking for the easy way out of stretching yourself.
I haven’t stretched myself out as much as she did.
I am thinking more positive these days and have plans to keep on working on making my mind healthier.
Thanks again Nat for the the words of Wisdom, you truly are brilliant!
Check out Rachel Yamagata’s lyrics to ‘sidedish friend’. It’s all about how the guy views his fallback girl. Chilling!