When you’re in the throes of the torment from a breakup, it’s understandable to want to reach out and let the other party know exactly how you feel. It might be because you hope that it will inspire their own desire to return to the relationship, or maybe it’s because you want them to know how much you’re suffering in the hope that they too will feel bad or that they’ll at least have the decency to back off if they’re saying or doing things that are contributing to your pain. The trouble is that in the wrong hands, what you’re sharing with them can be a big, fat, ego stroke.
Particularly when it’s someone who has shown themselves to be emotionally unavailable or has crossed into the territory of lacking empathy and even taking advantage of /abusing you, he/she knowing how much pain you’re in or you making repeated overtures can be as good as the feeling of ‘having’ you in a relationship.
Knowing that you’re in pain and/or that you’re there as an option in their back pocket if they should need to avail of you on a rainy day is like a low calorie ego stroke and certification of your feelings and their ‘option rights’ without them having to put in too much effort.
They know you’re not going anywhere and that’s actually a pretty secure feeling for someone who always likes to have a proverbial bird in the hand and one in the bush. Of course knowing that someone is ‘there’ when them consistently being there and being expected to be emotionally, physically and spiritually available is quite a ‘challenge’ means that their desire and sense of being out of control won’t exist. If the relationship wasn’t working or had never really gotten off the ground, you as an option that they get to remind themselves of can start to seem more attractive than having to stump up a relationship.
Now aside from the fact that you may be giving them even more of an ego stroke than they deserve, there comes a point when you’ve got to roll it back…. waaaaaaaay back, because not only is doing the same thing and expecting different results, insanity and another go-round on the disappointment cycle, but not knowing your own line will cause you immense pain and cost you your dignity.
I know that you can’t just switch off your feelings but your dignity shouldn’t have an ‘off function’ anyway.
Why give someone the comfort of knowing your whole life is falling apart because you’re not together? Not only are they just not that special, but you no longer being together is the sign of the relationship being broken, not a sign of you being broken as a person. You’re not going to feel too happy when they seem to be getting on with their lives and you’re there letting them know that you’ve stopped functioning without them. All this does is open you up to further rejection because the reality is, the type of person who is content with knowing that you’re there as an option, is also the type of person who either won’t find it attractive that you seem dependent on them and will distance themselves or they’ll exploit your feelings.
You’ve got to know the line and you’ve got to know when to fold. Others know the line when you know the line and sometimes you have to back away even when your ego wants you to race in there and do things to get attention and validation or to avoid uncomfortable feelings. There’s a thin line between repeated declarations of love/pain to someone who you’re no longer with or who isn’t treating you with love, care, trust and respect, and desperation. You can say your piece once, twice at a push and then you have to muster every shred of dignity you have left and put one foot in front of the other and walk away.
It’s tough but to be honest, walking away ends up being a piece of cake in comparison to clinging on and then facing everything that you’ve said and done in the process of trying to get them to ‘see’. When you do begin to come to terms with the loss of this person from your life and face your feelings, if you’re feeling low and vulnerable, you’re likely to end up giving you a hard time for chasing after him/her, which will just give you more to ruminate and stew in blame and shame over. In wanting this person to share in your feelings, to ease the pain or to even be inspired to spontaneously combust into a better person or to revert to what you thought that they were, you can end up doing the equivalent of running through several or even multiple red signals that should be alerting you that this is a code red, loss of dignity, unhealthy situation. The more you do, the more you may think that you should just go for bust, after all you’ve come this far and ‘lost’ everything.
It’s never too late to pull back. It doesn’t matter when your dignity kicks in; it just matters that it does at some point. I remember when I was going through No Contact how one day it occurred to me that I didn’t want him to have the security of me always being in the background – what the hell would that have said about me? It was an incentive for me to shut my mouth after the many times I’d thrown my feelings at him.
You can feel all of your feelings and grieve the loss of the relationship and also play your emotional cards a little closer to your chest in terms of letting this person know all of your emotional business, which under the circumstances may be a bit like giving them the blueprints to screw you over further. Love doesn’t look and feel like something where you have no self-esteem left because you lost it in the process of chasing after them. If loving them means that you cannot treat you with love, care, trust, and respect, always with no equivocations choose you.
Your thoughts?
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Thank you!
Natalie, this came just at the right time for me. Thankyou so much. I had reached code red and I was kicking my dignity along the floor. Last night I deleted numbers, contacts, everything – him and all his friends. I especially liked the bit about spotaneous combustion/reversion – I guess you never really know a man until it’s over between you, and half of it is about clinging to the image of the person you thought they were!
Great post and timing as always! I don’t think I could break NC and give him that satisfaction at this point but I was starting to have a conversation with him in my head. I found a recent email from him in an account I seldom use anymore. He said he missed me, nobody will ever compare to my intelligence, sex appeal, yada yada. Part of me wanted to tell him that it’s a shame he didn’t figure that out before he lost me because he felt a need to hold auditions for an (unattainable!) upgrade while lying to keep me as an option.
Ummm, no, he can continue on his quest without me giving him any reason to think I give a flying F what he thinks of me. I’ve also been on BR long enough to know it was probably BS anyway and he’s just alone/low supply again and chancing his arm since I always fell for it before.
I do miss the good bits a lot but I know it is so not worth it to give up any more of my dignity chasing the feeling. It never ends well…
OMG. How do you do that? You write about the very thing I need to hear at the very time I need to hear it!! I broke up with my assclown 5 months ago, and have tried to maintain No Contact ever since. But I’ve broken it at times over the past several months . . . NO MORE. This is exactly what I needed to hear today. The “itch” to lash out or seek validation from him is fading, but when memories or emotions are triggered, it’s still there. I will print this out and keep it in my purse. No doubt he is the type of man who LOVES any sign of attention (narcissist), whether it’s in the form of a sassy text or emotional email. Thank you, NML!! You always tell it like it is.
This has been a weekend of exactly what I’m experiencing with a man who a I care alot about and had been putting off revealing my true intense feelings. My gut however and my ego has prevented me to tell him, but in the last fews days I just grew very tired of being an option and just decided this weekend to take my emotions out of the equation and use my head and then suddenly for the first time in last 9 months I feel a sense of satisfaction and power to not once again expose my emotions to a person who doesn’t regard me as person but an object of his desire and ego stroke. I just decide to open this blog as I often to get clarity when I feeling unsure about myself. Wow!!!like always the blog of the day is exactly what I’m going through. You just don’t how much of a life saver this website has been for me in the last 18 months. Thank you
Amen Late Bloomer. I’m with ya. This site is therapy. An give yourself a great big hug…don’t be his option anymore.
I completely agree with u Tat…I’m nearing the point of doing this..Doesn’t look like anything is left between us bt it is tht image which Im still clinging to.. I hope to brk off this fantasy soon nd get real..
Thanks Natalie…luv all ur posts…
Cheers!!!
Natalie, I love the metaphor about dignity. It really shouldn’t have an “off function”. I 100% agree that it’s NEVER EVER too late to decide to bring your dignity back into the picture. In fact, a lot of us don’t think about dignity in relationships, much less, our integrity.
We get desperate and we forget that we deserve so much more. We deserve someone who’s good for us, who helps us thrive, and I don’t know–someone who WANTS to be in a relationship with us. Who’s dying to make us happy and delights in our personality.
Best wishes,
~Zabrinah
[your everyday girl,
writing about guys]
I needed to hear this so much. It will help me move on. I’ve been in NC for months but I could never move on.
Finally I realize the suffering I am going through has nothing to do with him and everything to do with me “letting go”. .
This post literally brought me to tears because it is so true. Not only am I stuck in the disappointment cycle, the person I am interested in is emotionally unavailable plus he is a chopper. Such a big part of me wants him to “see” me, but he just isn’t and I think that he is trying to exploit my feelings. I was NO contact with him for 4 months and then one day he actually said “I love you” and it threw me so off balance and that’s what sucked me back in hard! A man has never said those words romantically to me before. I immediately jumped in fantasy land. However, for someone who says they “love” me, he has not followed that up with any action at all. It’s almost like he just wanted me to pine over him again because I had completely stopped. Talk about mind effery! I cried last night wondering why I am so attached to him and why its so hard to let him go. My self esteem has taken a beating…I need to draw the line and save my dignity. Thank you soo much Natalie for this post!!!!!!!!! xo
My ex has been feeding off this for years now. I think he thinks I belong to him or something, despite him admitting that we are no good together.
I gone NC for the hundredth time recently! sigh
Being farther and farther away from all the breakups/games/contact with the ex, I can safely say that this is GREAT advice. Even when you want to tell them how much you heart is breaking, just don’t do it. It’s either not going to make a difference with them or they’ll revel in it and exploit you. I know multiple times my ex would tell me how he still loved me, how this wasn’t ‘forever’ and that we could always see what happened. He knew that was just what I wanted to hear! And guess what? I spent a whole year getting taking advantage of and suffering extreme anxiety, so much so that I had to see a therapist over it.
Remember too that the added benefit of not telling them how you’re feeling/how angry/pissed you are is that you get time and perspective, and are that much closer to finding a person who would never treat you the way they did.
WOW.
One thing I’ve gotten good at is disappearing when I get pushed. One of my ex’s recently sent me a text that I was very good at the silent grudge game, because I refused to engage in any communication with him. It isn’t a grudge, it’s me moving on and not giving a shit about how HE feels anymore. I tried to be friends with this particular ex but he was consistently disrespectful. So, no more talking, no more explaining.
A different, most recent ex who dumped me rather coldly on a public side walk hijack style never got another second of my time. I disappeared like he never knew me. I blocked his phone and email immediately, and never went any where I knew he would be. NC is easier for me this way, I’m not waiting to see if he contacts me while my heart and ego is kept on standby. I do it for me, not to bait them. You don’t want me, I’m gone. Mind you, I’ve had my days in my long lost past where I crawled on the floor while holding their ankles as they were walking out on me. Not my finest moment, but I humbly admit I have made a fool of myself before. But who hasn’t? Now, I feel like rejection or bull shit treatment is hard enough to handle, why add self induced humiliation to the mix. Why waste another moment of your time on someone who doesn’t care about you, or only wants you in their life as long as you stay in their back pocket. I have a friend who kept going back to her ex who dumped her. She would find out that he was seeing someone else, then go over to talk to him about it, sleep with him again, to find out he still planned on going on a date with the new girl the next night. I told her, ” This will continue to happen as long as you keep signing up for it.” Stop signing up for the shitfest once you know where it’s at.
“One thing I’ve gotten good at is disappearing when I get pushed.”
Agreed, selkie. One thing I’ve practised ever since I was young is that when I know I’m not wanted, I’m gone immediately – friends, relatives, romantic relationships, etc. Even if I make an ass of myself, once I know what’s going on, I make like lightning and bolt. No need to lose my dignity (or whatever is left of it); I refuse to give ass-wipes the satisfaction.
Yes, Natalie! You are ABSOLUTELY on point here. After the AC admitted that he had a wife abroad and we broke things off, I decided that I would NEVER contact that adulterous fiend EVER AGAIN. This happened in March and I feel A-MA-ZING, knowing that I didn’t contact him, not even once.
Mind you, within days of his sordid confession, he had the temerity, the audacity, the shameless, unmitigated gall to text me! He tried to apologise for the way things went down, for hurting me and of course to let me know that he ‘missed’ me! Yuck…I didn’t answer. My bff thought I should have answered and tried to get closure, but I took a pass on that. He knew I cared a great deal about him, and he probably thought I would be blowing up his phone and waiting for him outside his house. Not *this* bitch…
Had I been 24…yeah, I would have texted him, messaged him, maybe even visited his house (I did that with one of my exes and I won’t say how the ex took that…it WAS NOT PRETTY).
Eventually, the married AC stopped trying to contact me and I meantime had moved on with my life. What made this experience even sweeter was the fact that the AC ALWAYS boasted that he never chased after women. If he was used to having chicks chase him , I was not the one.
After all is said and done, I had no control over his ‘omissions’ but I did have utter control about the way I conducted MYSELF after the shit hit the fan.
Thanks Nat! 🙂
Nat ..You never cease to amaze me with these post. They give me so much strength,hope & faith in my future without the AC..Its like you wrote it just for me :).but I know in truth there are many of us struggling to let go of something, someone that was never worthy of our love. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for helping me so much..
Thank goodness I still have electric to read this post. The winds are howling & I am thinking the lights will be going out soon here. Its so nasty on the east coast of the US right now.. I am in hibernation mode with the 2 canine companions 🙂
Ooh, you´re in the middle of Sandy? I can relate to the no-electricity hibernation, we had a huge earthquake a couple of years ago, it was the same thing (I´m in Chile, btw).
Hope You are OK? Tuesday 11:17 in Florida..
Awesooooooooooooooooome. Again.. So true. I’m so grateful after reading this that my will power kicked in on 9 June & hasn’t dissipated to date. No contact ROCKS my world. No more ego strokes.
Holy Crapola! I had just posted on “he’s not that special” if anyone ever felt like contacting the ex-AC to let them know how they’ve wrecked our lives. I have been so miserable the past two weeks after I answered his email that stated “I can’t get you out of my mind” I haven’t seen him in 5 months, got a divorce, sold my house and moved into an apt. But the minute he pops back into my life, I fall apart. The cyclone of the disappointment cycle starts up all over again. I have a flash of maybe it will be different this time.
Thanks Nat for reminding me of why NC means NC!
I’ve thought about apologizing for my part/faults in the relationship with my ex. I want to let him know I cared. He said none of his exes cared. I did and I want him to know. I feel guilty for NC. He’s moved on. Went back to an ex that he talked about a whole lot and compared me to when we were together. It was hell. I have committed to NC so I won’t get emotional with him. But damn do I get nostalgic/shaky and second guess myself.
Wow your timing is impeccable. It’s coming up to a year since my EUM stopped seeing me, and I’m still in pain. I was toying with the idea of sending him an email on the one year ‘anniversary’ to totally lay out exactly what I’ve been through, both as a result of him, and other traumatic stuff that’s been going on in my life prior to and since that moment. It’s like I have this need to say “hey – my life was unravelling and you pulled away from me at the time when I needed you most and I want to put it into context so you have the full story, then maybe you will understand, realise what an arse you’ve been to me, and come back and make amends, because I still want to believe that deep down you truly care about me, miss me, and want to feel needed by me” and then he’ll come over and hug me and say he’s sorry, and everything will be alright again. But yes it would be a massive ego boost to a deeply insecure and self centred man, and maybe he wouldn’t bother reading it past the first sentence, maybe he’d read it and feel adored and do nothing, and maybe he would actually come over because he knows he can. It sucks when you still love someone even though they’ve treated you like shit, and you still want them to realise what a fool they’ve been and come back in a new, enlightened form, just like Mr Big in the final scene of SATC. It’s hard to stop wishing for a happy ending :’-(
Maybe he´d read it to his friends and have a massive ego stroke! Don´t don´t don´t do it!
Thank you Natalie.
Your post came at the right time for me too, even after almost two years of no contact w/ my abusive EUM (that i will KA). All the feelings I had for this man that I also called my abuser (since he abused me emotionally) came flooding back, after I bumped into him at work (we unfortunately work in the same building, but not in the same Department). First time after almost TWO years!
Although I stayed calm and polite when I run into him and I didn’t spend much time talking with him, I felt that something wasnt right in me. I have started wondering why I still have feelings for this man who told me “It would be unfair for him to say that he is ready to engage in a boyfriend/girlfriend type of relationship with me” after I (unfortunately) let him get too close to me physically.
I have been wondering what else I could do to get rid of this love that I still feel for him, even if I don’t want him back and I know he will never be my boyfriend (he is lacking too many of my core values regarding a healthy relationship and he is definitely emotionally disconnected with himself).
How come I love someone who hurt me so much, disrespected me, abused my kindness and friendship? Why these feelings still linger in me? Why can’t I hate him and hurt him back?
Tonight, I wanted to write to him and tell him how crual he had been with me twho years before. I wanted him to feel my pain so badly.
As I have learned – since I am used to abusers – that these people don’t feel and empathize. And still, I just can’t understand :
a)why abused people like me still like their abusers
b)how someone can be so selfish, self-centered and crual
I have been working on myself for a long time, but during my journey (i. e. after my separation with the father of my son 5 years ago), I started meeting “jerks” only. I even “fell” in love with other men after KA, but their personality got worse than his. I ended up with a verbal abuser and diagnosed narcissist, which urged me to stop dating completely. I was so traumatized that I had to be treated for PTSD symptoms. I’ve been on a “dating sabbatical” since, i.e. for 8 months now.
I am learning to love myself, to medidate, to encourage and comfort me, to replace my old negative programming, etc. but it is a real struggle every day. I forgave me for being emotionally unavailable and dissociated myself (because of childhood pain) and for allowing these men to abuse me. I didn’t protect my inner child and that is the most difficult for me to live with.
The worst part is that all these men WERE the ones who were attracted to me. I never was attracted to them, butI wanted so much to help, thinking I would have been helped and loved back as I loved them … It NEVER happened!
Thank you Natalie for giving me the strengh to keep the most valuable thing I ever had: my dignity. Despite all my unfortunate relationships, I never came back with any EX’s after a breakup and never wanted to. In that particular case (with KA), I don’t want to come back but I am really bothered by this lingering feeling of love. It never happened to me before.
keep going Odile – you are doing the right thing and you will come out stronger. I have a similar story and I’m just starting to invest in myself after years of putting myself last – thats what its all about – YOU.
“How come I love someone who hurt me so much, disrespected me, abused my kindness and friendship? Why these feelings still linger in me? Why can’t I hate him and hurt him back?”
It’s not love you’re feeling but a lack of self-love. It’s the feeling that if they magically changed and suddenly valued you, you would then feel validated, whole and special. You need to do that for yourself. They are never going to do it for you. Look at them more closely. I am willing to bet they don’t even look after themselves that well.
Take care of you. Keep healthy and keep well away from him. It sounds like you’re heading on the right track! x
I feel exactly the same way as you do, in the sense that I know I still have feelings for the man (men?) who emotionally abused me. Five years later, I fall for the exact same type, someone who resembles him so much more than anyone else I met since him… Except I don’t know why. I never had any childhood trauma that could easily explain this need for a man who puts me down all the time. It hurts, because I know I’ll never go back, but WHY, why do I still care about him/them?
“It’s never too late to pull back. It doesn’t matter when your dignity kicks in; it just matters that it does at some point.”
This is a comforting thought because I am someone who doesn’t know when enough is enough.
In all breakups I have never acted with dignity or had any self respect.
There was no point saying how I was feeling and what pain they had caused me when I was still there as an option.
I keep thinking why aren’t I normal??
Him: Hi well I have to tell you I have cheated on you twice with the same lady.
Normal Person: Well thank you for informing me good bye. They then stay no contact keeping dignity and self respect.
(the above situation is assuming you aren’t married, or living together)
This is me
Him: Hi I have to tell you I have cheated on you twice with the same lady.
Me: All angry why do you have to f*%k everything up ? I don’t know what to do I am so angry!!!
Him: Let’s meet up and discuss this
Me: Okay
Then it comes to the discussion in person and I go on etc. but I still don’t cut my losses.
I want to whack myself over the head.
Even if he is trying hard to carry on telling me he does respect etc.
He wants me to work for him, he wants to loan me money he is blowing hot, but underneath all this is he wants me to hurry up and forget, he doesn’t want to cut the friendship with the other woman.
Finally I can see I have to go, walk away and it is not too late to have a little dignity and self respect the message he has so far is he can treat me anyway he pleases and I will keep showing up.
“I keep thinking why aren’t I normal??”
I think after reading BR for any amount of time you should discover that you ARE normal. Everyone – even men – go through this kind of relationship bs. Maybe we can think of it as a right of passage. We become people of wisdom by making mistakes. We couldn’t know how to make good decisions if we didn’t make all the bad ones first.
Be strong, do what is right for YOU, and know that you are not alone. Ok.
Tulipa, I don´t think a “normal” person would say Okay thanks for informing me and goodbye. That´s something a robot would probably say.
You´re a human being, so you have emotions. It´s perfectly normal to react like that. This guy tells you out of the blue he´s been unfaithful, so you get angry, are taken aback, confused (you agree to meet up with him) – that seems perfectly natural.
Don´t punish yourself thinking you´ve acted stupidly, that´s like kicking yourself after someone stomped all over you.
You need to get angry with him, as unpleasant as it is, not with yourself! I think that is part of having dignity too.
Thank you Freya and Lilia for your words of comfort.
I have made a decision and am not going to hang around the trust is totally gone. I don’t have the energy to try either.
I got to no contact but slower than I thought but thats okay.
AMEN. I did this, ended a LONG relationship with an EUM, he kept sniffing around, I caved a few times..met up for a drink. I caved twice actually, and surprise surprise both times he completely exploited my feelings. Exactly what Nat says, it’s an ego stroke for someone who’s EU and doesn’t have an empathetic bone in their body (which he didn’t). I hoped he would, boy was I wrong. After the 2nd time he exploited my feelings (we were both under the influence of alcohol) I woke up feeling sooo bad that I thought “never again!”. Haven’t answered a single call/text message/visit in over 2 years 🙂 went 100% NO CONTACT after that. It is possible ladies! Hang in there xo
Natalie. How long is long enough to punish myself. Knowing the guy is absolutelt a player and everything that goes along with it, i feel like ive lost a piece of myself. I feel like ive let myself down. I didnt listen to anyone who said he was a liar, a loser, a cheat, a fraud, he is the ulti.ate future faker, a snake in the grass, but he made me feel alive, like someone understood me. He used me over & over.. I know all these things & yet i want him to tell me he is sorry for being a liar, that he is so sorry he hurt me & i want him to change & become a great friend. I know. I need my head read. This is never going to happen. The article is about me. Telling him all my pain & never getting an answer. Sometimes i just feel like i will never get over this. Its been such a long association & i cant stop thinking …
Hello Nat and everyone – been AWOL for while but have been reading posts and responses when ever I could. I hope all of you are well and people on NC are holding on and keeping strong. I have been thinking of BR and sending warm thoughts (did you get it?)
“It doesn’t matter when your dignity kicks in; it just matters that it does at some point” –> Nat, this made me feel so human and ok. I always thought I was one of those people who has this high threshold to people’s poor treatment (not anymore). But I realized it came from having a mom who is a doormat. I have learnt my lesson over the past few years but yes, the dignity kicks in quicker now (Im still working on avoiding men who bust my dignity in the first place).
I have so much to learn. It has been..5 months NC (yay! I had to think about that) and I feel SO much better. Im still too scared to date (WiP)but I havent feel this good in a LONG time. Thank you Nat and to everyone here.
Purplelily,
Your comment on having a mom who acted like a doormat really hits home. Mine did too…accepted cheating, verbal/ emotional abuse for 18 yrs. And I am struggling to let go of my boyfriend who cheated, broke up with me repeatedly, etc. I can see now that it is learned behavior and I have to force myself to do different..
@ Learner : Hi there, Im sorry for this late response. I remember reading your post to me ages ago but I couldnt get to reply to it. How are you doing? I hope you are well.
Thank you for thinking about me and for asking me about my job etc. I finally found a new job and start next week. Its been a crazy month having had worked 3 straight weeks. I also ended up losing 2 friendships because I tightened boundaries, which makes me really sad; one of the friend was someone I knew since I was 10. Nevertheless, still NC and havent thought of the exEUM too much. Ive made travel plans, gotten back to the gym on a daily basis and starting a new job – personal WOOHOO!I wouldnt say Im back to being strong and completely confident (I can see my fragile bits) but I will get there.
Thank you again, I send you big hugs from warm Melbourne x
PurpleLily!
It is so great to hear how well you are doing – believe it or not, I was just wondering about your job situation a few days ago, and I’m so happy for you that you found a new position. Even better, that you are still NC – that’s great to hear 🙂 It sounds like you are really taking care of YOU, too, even if it does mean having to end some friendships because you are protecting your boundaries (sorry to hear about your childhood friend though – that’s gotta suck).
I am also doing well, thanks – just passed the 4 month NC point with the exMM. I still think about him wayyy too much, but my jobs have been busy enough lately to limit the amount of brain time I have for him, lol. At least I am no longer letting him know how much he hurt me, as per this post. Of course, like you, I read BR whenever I can too, to help keep me strong. Thanks for your comment PurpleLily, and no worries about the delay – it was sweet of you to reply. Hugs xo
Yes ! Thats been one of the hardest parts .not been able to tally man with what i first knew. Nat is bang on tho in the process of breaking up. Ive nearly sent messages on how i felt but it would not change a thing as its me not him thats dealing with it as it comes out the system , i also dont wish to be there in background as a ego stroke or falling over rest of hareem trying to be cheif sympthasizer , come to me if you feel down bla bla bla. I grabbed my dignity back thank god just in time .hes off making a new life hopefully this time round hes changed as he starts afresh with new girl .
Tired,
Yes, let the new OW have him, keep your dignity, and stay NC! He doesn’t deserve to know how you feel. Hugs xo
“Cheif sympathasizer” I’m laughing! I’ve never heard that one. It’s good… and humbling, knowing how hard I vied to be that for my Person of Addiction (a MM). I switched from being a lover to “chief sympathizer” when he broke off our affair to try to repair things with the wife. He relied on me and one other woman in his harem for support, buttering us up by telling us that he had broke things off with the rest of his harem. The Other OW and I were “trustworthy” and had his back. Oh! Hearing those words was like getting a hit of crack cocaine! Off and on all year, I’ve vied with the Other OW to be chief sympathizer. She beat me to the coveted title… she had offered to lend him her car so that he could do a soul-searching solo road-trip for a week and not take his family’s one car. Holy Moley! (Road trip didn’t happen – I can’t imagine that his wife was thrilled with his solution for getting a second car.) Well, I gave up the “chief sympathizer’s arms race” at that point. The Other OW did me a favor – opened my eyes to the folly of this all. I’ve all but maintained perfect NC with the MM for going on a month, and it feels great. What was I thinking?
Amanda,
Holy crap! What a tale! Good thing you lost the arms race! 🙂
I hear you on the harem…my ex had an old girlfriend from HIGH SCHOOl (and he is 48) that he still called occasionally and once when we were in a fight he said he could get laid (with her) anytime he wanted to…and that ‘she would always be there for him’! ick! Color us the ones who won’t be!!
He actually told you that you and the OOW “had his back?” OMG! Are these guys actually aliens? The unmitigated gall of the things they say in complete seriousness never ceases to amaze me.
I hope this makes you laugh…when I read this staatement of his, the first thought that crossed my mind was, “Yep, I have your back, lined up in my cross-hairs.”
Just some random thoughts…I can’t decide if it makes me feel better or worse to read others’ comments. There is such sadness, turmoil, and heartache in the words other women share. I read their comments and think “Poor Baby, will she be OK? Should she be alone? How can she prevent this from happening again?” Natalie, I commend you for making this work your life’s mission. It is HARD to read of others pain.
Sophie Sun
I agree! There are so many of us that have been hurt by these AC’s, and these are just the ones who comment on BR – there are millions of other who don’t know about BR, or who read but don’t comment. Very, very sad. I know what you mean about worrying about people, and wanting to help, and feeling a bit “vicariously traumatized” by others’ stories too. I am also grateful for what Natalie does, difficult though it must be on a 24/7 basis!
another timely reminder. thank you for that. after my break up, about a week later, i had a freak out on my ex EUM which i now regret. i was in so much pain (get this, we were still traveling together, big mistake) and he seemed to be happy as a clam and i thought it was so ‘unfair’. i was the one who had behaved decently in this relationship and i ended up with a big bowl of hurt.
what ended up happening is that i got rejected again. and again. i not only got rejected again, i also really felt bad for him. i know, this i don’t quite understand, either.
he strung me along on a 3 month trip while he was still in love with his ex. his tactic of showing me he wasn’t ‘ready’ was by withdrawing himself slowly, physically and emotionally. it left me exhausted and totally confused as i had asked him several times if things were ‘okay’ as i felt he was acting ‘weird’. he never said a word that he had doubts, because he ‘didn’t want to hurt me’. this is a 40 year old man, btw.
i don’t know why i’m so devastated by this. i’ve come to the point now, 6 weeks later, where even if he wanted me back (he won’t as he never loved me — his words) i would say ‘no’. i want and deserve someone who loves me back with all his heart, not just with empty words that are not backed by actions.
i am in NC with him now and yes, my dignity switch is on, but it’s so hard not to have a good go at him. part of me thinks it would really make me feel better.
Humbling. Sometimes, we have to learn the hard way. Three years ago, before my most recent lapse of judgment getting involved with a MM, I was having an emotional affair with someone who turned out to be a narcissist. He claimed to not be “in love” with me, but he “loved” me. We were, on the surface, best friends, but in truth, I was his number-one ego stroke. A few months into our “intense friendship”, he starts dating a lovely woman, and Fast Forwards his way into a relationship with her. He is so insecure about her, that he keeps me on stand-by as Ego Stroke. One night, thanks to the wonders of alcohol, he and I hook up. Not surprisingly, he is wracked with guilt after that (as am I). He confesses to his girlfriend, and she puts him in the doghouse while she “thinks” about whether they can stay together. This makes him angry, so he takes it out on me. Tells me that I am a “dangerous person” for cultivating this kind of intimacy with him. This is when I decide that its a great time to tell him my true feelings for him… to complain that I loved him well before he met his girlfriend, and that of course I was going to act on his sexual advances (he initiated. he invited me into his bed). I had been confused with his slippery use of the word “love” with me. He turned that a weapon, of course. Claiming that he “never knew” my true feelings for him, and then telling me more ways in which I was a weak and depraved person. Ugh. I get shivers thinking about that. Since then, the “new girlfriend” broke up with him for being emotionally abusive, as did the one after that, and he sits all day in his house that his father bought him smoking pot. Glad that’s done with! The other silver-lining to this story is that it is possible, with time, to see an AC/EUM for who he really is. I used to love this man, head over heels, and could not see his flaws through my fantasy. I now see his damage (and my own damage) clear as day, and feel really good about only having a collegial relationship with him… this gives me hope that I will get there with my latest Person of Addiction… and you will, too!
i really want to take off these rose tinted glasses and smash them into pieces. i am still looking at him as ‘innocent’ but i think this might change over time. he strung me along and he hurt me much more than was necessary.
Wow. I feel like every single time i’m in the process of contacting him, you end up posting something like this. It blows me away how much you seem to be in my mind! Thank you, Thank you.
Today was a hard day. It took a ton of strength for me not to say HI, i’m still here, piss on me some more please.
It’s been four years of this BS with him. I’ve tried “no contact” way too many times and failed. I’ve recently realized that being friends is just pretty much a stupid move on my part. You’re absolutely right, it’s better to walk away with dignity.
Another wonderful piece Natalie, great work.
I really needed this. Its been 5 months since I’ve had NC with my ex-MM (although he’s no longer married). I pride myself in being strong as to not sending any texts or emails. Although I still try to bump into him at school. I know where his classes are and I feel pathetic trying to catch a glimpse of him. I’ve managed to see him and his girlfriend (a classmate of ours) and its like a kick in the stomach and yet I find myself still doing it.
I feel so stuck because he was my first. Its not fair that I will always be able to remember him and I was just another girl to him. He described our whole relationship as being “friends” and even though I was willing to put aside my feelings, he couldn’t even be that. He came into my life where I was struggling in school and we became close. He said the right words and I was stupid to believe him. I’m 23 and I know there will be plenty more heartbreak to come but right now I just want to move on. I’m really just emotionally drained and I need to focus on myself again. I’d love to hear any advice.
I feel for you sweety. It totally sucks to break up and have to see them with someone new. I think you gave yourself your own best advice: Focus on yourself again. It really is the best thing to do and the more you do things to love you and make yourself feel good the easier it will be to start moving forward. Seriously, doing nice things for yourself WILL work. Eat food that is super healthy, get a pedicure, do something different with your hair, give yourself a hug and tell yourself you love you…I know for a fact this stuff works!
Hugs
Oh Rachelle, Sweetie you are the age I was when I met my husband, younger than I was when I had my daughter and, younger than my daughter is now! You are so blessed to find yourself here with NML now when you are just beginning in life.
As truly awful as you feel now – and I don’t question it is that bad because you found your way here – you arrived at the best place.
You are 23 and involved with a MM…? Was he a professor or another type of authority figure? You don’t need to answer me but you certainly should think about the misuse of power and control in any dynamic involving a younger vs more established person at your age… Just my thought. I don’t know your circumstances and, thank goodness my daughter avoided it. I will admit that I fell for a lot of BS in my youth (and age!), including authority figures and/or MM…
I guess I didn’t think about the possibility this guy is married and close to your age and cheating?!!! That actually makes me more ill than an older guy where you can both ultimately recognize the stereotypical arc of the relationship… If this is a MM near your age even if there are assets, children, etc., he is an AC!!!! (Well, any MM with a gf is an AC but at your age STOP IT!!!) He is someone looking to use everyone he can and it will persist and you will regret this forever. I promise.
A few corrections! LOL I was a bit younger than 23 when I met my ex-husband but somewhat older when I had my daughter! I want to add that my daughter’s father was not the reason I’m here! In case that was unclear, it was a much more recent mistake! Thank goodness I only met danger later in life. I’m actually listening to the music I shared with the lovely man with whom I raised my daughter…
Here I have to admit I was an EUW and had truly lovely men whom loved me that I hurt. I do think about whether to apologize. One is my ex-husband/child’s father whom I know I’ll see at my child’s law school graduation. He is married for many years and not in my thoughts so much. The other was like a step-dad to my daughter and I ended it years ago but have encouraged their friendship many years later due to similar interests. He is the one I feel the most guilt for being an EUW/AC.
Sometimes I think this whole thing with the AC I’ve suffering is my karma and I’m his, too. Except, I don’t think this messed up his mojo at all and it certainly did mine. Lunacy, I know!
Rachelle,
I went through a similar situation in college when I was your age. I’m now 27. You said there will be heartbreak to come. I hope you didn’t mean with other men or this guy! I mean I know you hurt and will hurt but don’t make you hurt by seeing him with his new gf. Keep reading baggage reclaim and know, please know, you deserve a healthy, caring relationship minus the heartbreak. Heal and take care of you. You are so very very young, and so much opportunity awaits. You are worthy of good. I promise. Geez, I feel for you.I can relate and it is terribly painful. But proccess the pain, seek healthy support (not from pain sources), allow you to feel, love you and move on. Take care. You can get through this. I did. I promise. And, the man who broke my heart at 23, has no and I mean no power over me now. I don’t find him attractive AT ALL.
This is my first post. I’ve been reading BR for quite some time and I thank you Natalie. You truly have a gift with words and ideas.
What do you do when it’s family members that are doing the push/pull? At get-togethers, if I want to see the people who care about me, I will have to be around the people who treat me “less than”. I continually get disappointed by being around the ones who hurt me.
l have to say this is one of the highlight literature, a core thing. Sometimes we might not even be able to distinguish the pain of “love” or “lost dignity.” l think that you can loose love but never your dignity.
Sorry, off topic but I figure this is where people will look for posts.
How does seeking validation in a relationship manifest itself? What does it look like?
In my last serious relationship I was trying to be the exception with the least likely man I knew who would give me a healthy relationship. I tried to be everything I ‘thought’ I should be at the time. Low maintenance, exceptionally understanding etc. I guess seeking validation would be wanting him to engage in a proper relationship with me?
My current relationship I know I can be myself. If I’m feeling down then that’s ok etc. I feel loved, supported and 100% his priority. A few weeks ago I was the happiest I’ve ever been then some stuff happened and I’ve turned into my mom again. Miserable, anxious, panic attacks. Is this further seeking validation that he will be there for me no matter what??
I’d appreciate anyone sharing their thoughts
Tigger
“Miserable, anxious, panic attacks. Is this further seeking validation that he will be there for me no matter what??”
When you are in a relationship you will still feel miserable, anxious and have panic attacks from time to time. Especially if that’s part of your make up. The key is not to see it as being your boyfriend’s fault or responsibility (unless he’s been cheating or something).
I was single for years before I met the boyfriend and I learned a lot from that. Especially how to be an individual who can handle her own stuff. It’s easy when you’re in a relationship to glom onto your partner and expect them to fix you. They can’t do that. And a good person won’t want to. They can support you. But you can’t be supported if you’re looking for something that support can’t achieve.
Will he be there for you no matter what? Only can time can tell. I’m not saying that a relationship should be a constant state of hyper alert but enjoy the days and months and years as they come, and that’s what will enable you to be there for each other no matter what. Anxiety and worry won’t help build your relationship.
Don’t go worrying that worry will wreck your relationship. It’s controllable. Keep yourself busy with fruitful activity and rest well.
You’re two individuals choosing to come together and build a relationship, not survivors of a shipwreck dragging each other down!
Thanks Grace. I’m asking because I’m trying to work out my patterns. I’ve identified that I get into this miserable state eventually in all long term relationships and It’s not just having a down day.
It’s either that I just didn’t learn any better way of dealing with conflict in a relationship and/or I’m punishing him and/or self-sabotaging (emotional unavailability/afraid bad things follow quickly after good). I believe the first two at least is part of the relationship model I got from my parents.
I’m trying to get my head around whether somewhere in my mind I think there is some kind of benefit or payoff for this bahaviour.
I do great when I’m single and have continued building my life as an individual over the past year while I’ve been in this relationship. A few weeks ago I was truely the happiest I’ve ever been then some conflict came up that reminded me of my cheating lying ex.
tigger, for me it was trying to be the prefect girlfriend. my ex EUM was married to a pretty complicated woman, who was very unhappy and depressed for most of the relationship and had a bucket full of emotional and physical problems. and she left him a few years ago.
i wanted to show him that a relationship doesn’t have to be a ‘difficult’ thing. i wanted him to be happy, as i thought he really deserved that, after what he went through in his marriage (which fell apart 3 years before we got together, btw, so it was not an obvious rebound).
i tried to validate myself by trying to prove that this relationship was built on healthy foundations. love, care, trust, compassion, empathy, support etc. in the end it didn’t matter. i’m still not sure if he felt threatened by me being so open about everything and wanting a relationship with him, or if he was still truly in love with his ex wife. it doesn’t matter. he freaked out and started slowly to withdraw. my validation scheme failed.
Rachelle..i feel your pain all the way from the other side of the world where i am.But you said it right, you MUST take care of YOU first and foremost.As Nat says “always choose you”. I too have been in the situation of seeing my now ex with his new girlfriend or even just seeing him at work..and i always felt like i was having an anxiety attack..Please read all that Nat has written about NC..its what has saved me over these past 6 months..Nat says that “it gives you objectivity” and its so true..You physically will feel better for not seeing him even tho you want to.But the toll it takes on your body and emotions is just too much and it is not worth it to be honest. Your emotional well being is an absolute must.SO start small maybe go a different way to class.When you feel like your going to do something that goes against your well being go for a RUN do exercise..Your body thrives on movement it will clear your head.Listen to what your body is telling you..if it feels bad it is bad..if your brain cant take anymore then it cant take anymore you have to stop doing the things that make it hurt..which is hard.but its worth it in the end.I read this quote “giving up doesnt mean your weak sometimes it means your strong enough to let go”
Natalie, sometimes I think you can read my mind! Your post is so timely, exact my situation…IT IS LIKE YOU TALKING TO ME —“I know that you can’t just switch off your feelings but your dignity shouldn’t have an ‘off function’ anyway”. I have to stay strong, and keep my dignity and not allowing ACs to control my feelings and emotions!!!
I’ve been on the other side of this too, the one that exes have been pining for. And, yes, it’s an ego stroke. It did make me feel like I was “all that”.
Yes, I did grow up and either cut them loose or stopped treating them like my personal patsy.
No, it didn’t make me respect them or love them. It’s possible *hangs head* it made me look down on them.
And when I hear people (men or women) brag that their exes won’t leave them alone I bite my tongue. It doesn’t necessarily mean what they think it means! When I was circling my exes it was mainly because I felt shite about myself or thought I was out of options. It wasn’t that they were so great (even if they were).
It’s so amazing sometimes when I think about all the men in my life who at one time I thought were my oxygen. That I could NEVER get over EVER. And when I reflect back I so couldn’t care less…because it was all fantasy with each and every one of them. It’s hard to hold a fantasy in memory because there’s so many details, so when it’s over you just look at the object – said Man and see NOTHING. Because I can’t remember LOL. I think why I get so ‘attached’ to a drama King and the ensuing obsessive ‘talking to him’ in my mind, is because it takes me away from dealing with my own issues of lonliness and the fear of actually really understanding what it is and isn’t. And also the painful part of my life where I need full focus on to create something in it…an inappropriate person removes all that self ‘work’ and acts as a diversion in the false label of LOVE. I know nothing about real love. And it will come when I don’t try and control that too. Jeez, the things I keep learning…and the more I keep lying to myself in storytelling about some faux virture that doesn’t even match the clown I’ve chosen, the more I delay actually treating myself with dignity and kindness. xo
Brilliant. A married man dumped me 5 months ago and made contact for the first time since last Friday. All he wanted to know was that I was still ‘there’ and hadn’t met anyone else. He didn’t even want a booty call – just an ego stroke because, yes, guess what, his home life was hell again.
I jumped at the contact at first – I’d longed for this for months, remember – but realised very quickly that he was exactly the same emotionally unavailable, negative person he always was. After a day of no less than 3 phone calls from him, he disappeared again, still playing those games. And I realised I only missed the fantasy, not the actual person itself.
Sally-Ann,
Good for you for staying strong and keeping your BR wits about you after the exMM contacted you. Let him stay stuck in his miserable life. You are moving forward now!
Thank you Learner. My goodness, it’s tough. I want to ring him and ask him why he is playing these games – all over me after 5 months and then back to withdrawal and silence – but I realise I would be playing into his hands.
I will not, did not, would not EVER get what I wanted from him. EVER.
I went through the insanity cycle so many times, during my last relationship ( and the many break ups, how many break ups can you have in a 9 month relationship, I lost count, that was truly insane). Each time I thought that he got it this time, but all it was-a bit of hot air and re-set and rinse. He has continued to send texts every couple of months after I went NC and it`s been a year and a half now, and that has not helped me in getting over the whole mess but I know that Natalie is right = he just doesn`t like the loss of control and wants to know I`m still an option because he thinks he is that special.When I broke up with him and he wanted us to “try again” I sat there googling “how to get trust back in a relationship” and he was out drinking with his mates-told me he is not going to go there (trust rebuilding). When he was sending me ” I still love you” text-crumbs he was also active on a dating site. Since I did NC properly and stopped checking after every stupid text I am now in this wonderful place where I don`t give a shit anymore. The last thing I would want him to know is how much wreckage he caused in my life and also that he did a wonderful thing for me and disrespected me so much that I am finally, for the first time in my life getting respect for myself. None of his business.
like : )
you go, sushi!
Spot on, Sushi. JUST when we think we’re finally getting there, back they come.
I have to admit I welcomed his contact as I couldn’t believe he didn’t want to know me anymore. And being in touch with him has done me good as it made me realise that he is just the same person and always will be.
Now that he has disappeared again, only to re-appear whenever, I’m just so not bothered anymore.
I take inspiration from your post, thank you.
sushi,
Freaking love it: “I am now in this wonderful place where I don’t give a shit anymore.” And “None of his business.” Nough said. This totally encouraged me to stop fantasizing about tearfully apologizing to this AC and trying to real him in with emotions or allow myself to be realed in with games. It is indeed none of his business.
Double LIKE!
I wish i could shake this feeling , i feel so used and a prop . i been doing so well getting on with things but the news mm has left and him and new ow is all out has knocked me back .It that awful why her not me syndrome and i dont want to feel that .
Tired, it must be simply devastating. For all your exhortions to move on, forget him, you’re worth more, etc, etc, it must be just horrendous to hear that your MM has left his wife, but not for you.
I feared that too – and still do, even though me and MM are no longer in touch. I don’t want him, but if I learned he had finally left his wife for someone else, I would be devastated beyond belief. Why not me? When I tried so hard and was so lovely? Why not me?
I live in fear of this because we still work together and I therefore can’t avoid his news.
But our MMs aren’t decent people and their new relationships wouldn’t work either. Yours chose someone he probably has little respect for, otherwise why should she set up with a MM in the first place?
I feel for you so much, but you’re not alone and we are here for you whenever you need xx
Thanks NAtalie – and like so many others have said this post comes at a good time for me – in fact all the last few posts have been getting me through the last couple of weeks.
I read what you wrote about dignity and thought that was me last week. I wasn’t listening to what he was saying, he was saying he felt nothing for me, whatever was wrong between us was all my fault, not his. He was refusing to even acknowledge any of my comments about him and the mstuff he had done within our relationship. He was standing by himself saying ‘this is who I am, leave if you don’t like it’. I thought if he heard how much I was hurting he would feel sorry, if he heard what my experience was like he would want to change…..Nah – he made it very clear he didn’t give a rats ass and if he did, well he wasn’t going to share that with me! And still I begged! I reached rock bottom. I was that woman holding onto his ankles. Shame on me.
But at least I finally see that and the posts and comments from the last week or so have really helped. And you are right dignity shouldn’t have an off switch but mine did – no more.
Oh my. This reminds me of something the ass used to do. If I ever tried to, ever so tactfully, say that there was something he had done or said that was not good for me he would say “I’m a package”. He sure was…
Kendo,
I understand…was there too…I was the pathetic fool who had phone sex with him AFTER he broke up with me…i also am ashamed of myself and working to recapture dignity.
Once your dignity truly “kicks in”, it makes it very difficult for them to get back in. They do not understand how you can resist them. The ex-AC does not even look attractive any longer. Funny recent experience (and maybe it’s more coincidence than anything) was I had gone out with a mutual female friend. One night I called the friend and left a vmail. Within 10 minutes the AC was texting like nothing ever happened. It was brief but the last thing sent was a future fake. I was cracking up!
That’s when I knew dignity kicked in and I was over it! Another way was when she became referred to as THE ex-AC not MY ex-AC… not claiming her as mine any longer ;).
I loved hearing your recent experience. Made me giggle with delight. Maybe because something very similar happened to me – except that I am the ex AC that sent a text message. The response I got made me realize what a stupid game it was to be playing with someone. It’s not like I love this person I just cant stand that HE had the courage to ignore me. I guess I’m just not that special.
I’m glad to hear you are moving forward. You totally did the right thing.
I needed to read this. I’ve been NC for 2 months now. I actually haven’t spoken to the ex for 3.5 months, but I have made attempts at contact (calls he never picked up, texts he never replied to). After staying in contact with his family and hearing details about the new girl (who he was likely cheating on me with), I said that’s it. I made a conscious decision to opt out of staying connected to his family, hearing details about his life, letting him find out I was still pining for him and I wasn’t moving on.
In the immediate months following the breakup (or actually his cowardly disappearance), I actually considered writing him a letter telling him just how bad he broke my heart. And all those times I tried to call him, I didn’t have a plan of what to say- I just wanted him to know I was hurting. Now I think- for what? He could really care less about how much he hurt me. The most I would get is a meaningless “I’m sorry”.
The breakup happened about a month after my mom was hospitalized for a near fatal car accident and I was so shocked that he never once reached out to me to see how she was doing. Thinking about this just added to my hurt and fueled the whole desire to tell him just how much his disregard for my feelings has impacted me. I should really just take this an evidence that he is a cold POS who doesn’t care about me. He hasn’t tried to reach out to me once during the past 5 months. His father did call me unexpectedly the other night (went to VM). After some overanalyzing (ie. why is his father calling me now after all this time? what could it mean?),I deleted the message and then shut my phone off.
Natalie,
“Why give someone the comfort of knowing your whole life is falling apart because you’re not together? It’s tough but… walking away ends up being a piece of cake in comparison to clinging on and then facing everything that you’ve said and done in the process of trying to get them to ‘see’.”
I am so feeling this. When I discovered the extent of the exMM’s lying-and-cheatingness, I started sobbing on the spot. He put his arm around me, and comforted me, but it almost seemed like he got a perverted pleasure from my pain. Meanwhile he was stone-faced while I felt my world was falling apart. How foolish I was. He later spoke of him “breaking my heart” while insinuating that his was still intact. He worried that a male colleague (who knew of our affair)would think less of him as he had hurt me. No mention of any hurt that he may have brought himself (of his wife!). I am slowly realizing that he does not feel like normal people do. Even though he more-or-less TOLD me he wasn’t in touch with his feelings, I never believed him. How could a human being not feel sympathy, empathy, love, guilt? After being awakened to the ideas of AC’s, narcissists, sociopaths and the like, I now realize they can not only NOT feel like normal people, they may actually thrive on the pain of others. Especially the super-empathetic FBG’s they pursue in their sick, self-absorbed way. As many have said, thank goodness for NC! I will never again let this person know how much he has hurt me. He has no right to know my emotions. He can keep his miserable life – I am no longer in it. WooHoo!
Dignity? I didn’t have any. I traded it every time he contacted me by responding back to him. I used to be flattered, not anymore because I know he is just looking for an ego stroke. Once he gets it – it’s adios again! It used to be every few months he would come sniffing around, throw the bait out, I would bite and then he would throw me back in the water. Remember one time I agreed to see him after 3 months of NC. He bought me a drink and then asked me for a BJ!! Throughout my life I’ve always had to learn things the hard way and this was no exception, but I am proud to say I LEARNED and I feel I am going in the right direction. Hell would have to freeze before I would ever respond back to him. I even changed my email address to keep this parasite out of my life. He did enough damage (though he will never know and that’s okay) – not letting him do anymore. And he can find someone else to give him that BJ. FLUSHED.
Perhaps the only thing I have done right in this whole AC mess is keep my dignity and try and avoid social situations where AC and his harem are likely to be found. Talked to a couple of safe friends about the current situation; one said “you have a warriors name, what would a warrior do in this situation “? Take the high ground, make decisions that are best for all involved, and act with dignity. Yep, I am gonna hurt for a long time, reading a previous post kinda depresses me, four years of hurt? Ow! It was somewhat heartening to hear that many others are really pissed at this dude, it’s not just me. Hope all of you out East are safe, dry, and warm.
You may not hurt for as long as you think. Once you pull back from the situation, really sincerely, you can quickly get a proper perspective. I was with my AC for nearly 6 years and whilst it took me a little while to stop being angry it took me a surprisingly short amount of time to stop hurting. I think most of my anger was with myself for putting up with the nonsense for so long.
Love the post. 🙂 As so many others have stated, I can really relate!!
The one thing that disturbs me, however, about some of the comments is this “need” to tell the ex-EUM/chopper/etc. about the hurt that they’ve caused. Having been there a few times myself, I would say this. BE HONEST with yourself. Do you really need to tell them how they made you feel or are you secretly hoping that they will listen to you and then come back with “Sorry dearest heart. What on earth was I thinking?!” or something along those lines. Be very wary of sharing with people in the hopes of changing their behaviour. You cannot control someone else. Think how hard you struggle with your own feelings. How the heck do you think you’re going to then magically control theirs?!
If you truly have this burning desire to tell them how they ‘made’ you feel, then do so in a letter. Get it all out on paper, yell, scream, punch a punching bag,do whatever it takes to acknowledge and release your feelings but, for goodness sake, keep your dignity.
Also, we have to take responsibility for our feelings. We can’t just lump them all in the lap of the ex. How much of your distress is at actually losing what you had? Most times, I think we’re just upset and distressed at losing the possibility of a fairy-tale ending.
What does anyone else think?
Bermiegirl: Perfect. This is exactly what I did. And then when I had it all on paper I burnt it. It was therapeutic and felt good.
I have not spoken, texted, e-mailed, skyped, carrier pigeoned, etc THE ex-AC since we he dumped me. My big issue here is how I let go of the hurt. The betrayal. I still cringe when I see him/them. (Them, being particularly difficult). I still have a massive amount of anger I carry around when I think of him/them.
Berniegirl I agree, when the AC player disappeared I was desperately seeking closure. In the end I called him twice he never answered or replied, so a few days later I sent a text saying that I realised it was over and no hard feelings etc. I was very polite and didn’t let on that I was hurting. I knew he wouldn’t respond but I was secretly hoping that he would and he would still want me after seeing how understanding I was. I never ever got an explanation as to why he disappeared but that was my explanation right there! I maintained my dignity because he never knew how badly I was struggling to get over him, which I’m glad about because now I’m over him I don’t have the embarrassment of losing my dignity. I must admit it wasn’t easy I had to sit on my hands to stop myself from contacting him.
yep. very well said. i don’t particularly miss the ex-EUM. after all, except for the beginning, he wasn’t very nice to me. what i miss is the future we had conjured up. of me moving to his city (abroad), traveling and working together. i know i can still do those things and i have in the past. it’s just that those things are so much more fun and interesting with a partner. sigh.
This makes perfect sense. Thanks for today’s food for thought.
Like so many others, I so needed to hear this TODAY. It will soon be 2 months of NC and while I had been feeling better, this past week has been hard. I really wanted to write him and tell him how much he has hurt me. How I am going through so much pain to get over this 2 1/2 year “friendship” and he seems to be let off the hook- emotionally speaking. He can just let go and I am working so hard, every minute of every day, to let go.
I do feel like I am moving on though- just such a slow process. I realized that I have not been “me” in over 20 years. First my ex-husband and now him, I have been boundary-less and I am just re-learning what to expect for myself- for my self-respect and dignity and I know this will NEVER happen again to me.
Similar to “books” I have a very seriously-ill mother who he knew about prior to NC. He has not once reached out to me to at least see how she was doing. I was just thinking today how that just adds to his lack of empathy or caring for anyone but himself. He was my best friend and that is what I miss the most. How could he just accept my NC without any concern? I know that it’s best that I do not hear from him right now- for the temptation to respond would be too great. NC is still too new.
Anyway- as always Natalie- this came at the perfect time. I went online late last night saying to myself that I needed to read something from you- hoping you posted- and you did! I have just read it and all the replies. I may just print this out and keep it on me.
Your site has been a true blessing. With my faith, my family and friends, and you and your readers, I know I will prevail.
Bernie girl, I could not agree more. I know without a doubt that I grieved not only loss of my ex but every other loss I’ve ever had it presented itself during that time. Most of it had nothing to do with him. He was a mirror showing me everything that was ‘wrong’ with me. With that being said, he did bail on me when I thought I needed him most. Most days, I see it as him doing me a favor but I wanted him to know how he hurt me so much. It’s all blurry now but I’m sure I told him at some point. He disappeared. I cut my losses. Almost 5 months no contact, it feels good.
AquaGirl & Sweetness, I think even if we begin NC without telling them how much they hurt us, we have probably been engaging in “telling them all about themselves” one way or another for a while before we actually take the necessary action and get out. They do know.
These are things I’ve never done: go back after NC, let them see me sweat, or tell them how they got to me.
Because fuck ’em, y’know?
God, I’m a hardheaded Italian woman. And I have pride the size of the Empire State Building (which, hopefully isn’t under water! Yikes! Be safe, East Coasters!!). So no, never did the grovelling or lack of dignity thing. As a matter of fact, I think the ACs probably still think back to me and laugh at my ballsiness. And I think they are afraid to contact me because I would tell them exactly where to put their motherfuckin’ “apologies.”
Does that mean I don’t care? Does that mean that my heart doesn’t hurt? Unfortunately, ye old stereotype is true: blowhards like myself usually do have a hard time with affairs of the heart, and may even feel more vulnerable than most. Still, fuckall that I’m gonna show the ACs of the world that.
Miskwa, I love that you have a warrior’s name. Your friend’s question to you (“What would a warrior do?”) made me stop and think. A warrior would take the hit, check her armor and make adjustments, and move the fuck on.
Love to you all,
Revs
Revolution. Dang. I need some of what you got. I’m a pansie. WAS. I’m getting better.
Thanks Jennifer,
I’m sure that you are hardly a pansy. I mean, you found BR, didn’t you? That means you knew something wasn’t right in Cleveland. That takes guts to be honest with yourself.
Having said that, it’s not a matter of being a pansy and then being a total bitch. It’s a matter of deciding whether you abandon a relationship with someone who is degrading you in some way, or you abandon yourself. It really comes down to that stark reality. And at those moments, you can feel it in your BONES that you need to make a hard right or left. There is no middle ground.
The irony is that if we make the decision to abandon ourselves, we will eventually lose the relationship anyway, and be left with nothing.
We should always ALWAYS take the hard right and abandon those motherfuckers.
Love it revolution! I am also an Italian chick…Sicilian as a matter of fact. Love this website, Natalie and the brave, strong women on it. I have always been tough with men but then there is one that gets to you and even changes your normal behavior. My AC tried with his sob story but in the end I held firm. He was my ultimate challenge and hard to get over. Great sex and I thought a great friendship but the inconsistency, lack of commitment issues were all there, After I dumped he came back bearing the big time gifts, apologies, declarations of the changes he would make and tears. I was tempted to go for validation. I realized that what I felt for him wasn’t this great love that I thought it was but some weird kind of addiction. His supposed great love for me was an addiction as well because I gave him a hard time and the roller coaster, relationship insanity had to stop. I kept thinking of something I learned from this website and Natalie Love isn’t pain and I felt more pain in this relationship than I have ever felt with another man. I had to move on as hard as it was. I will always be grateful for this website for keeping me strong in some very tough moments for me. It would have kept me from experiencing the great relationship I am in now.
Natalie,
So how can I be sure about this? I am with a guy who for the last 7 months have had a secret relationship with. We work together so he didn’t want everyone to know. I know that right now he is emotionally unavailable, but I think that is because of his upbringing and his family. I am sure that if I keep loving him and caring for him that eventually he will be different. And yes I do feel bad about myself sometimes and he does say terrible things to me. But all relationships go thru problems. I have told him I love him even though he has never even said he liked me. I know he feels the same, but is to afraid right now to admit it. Can’t this be the case, isn’t there always an exception to every rule? I don’t want to let him go, I love him so much, but I don’t want to wake up one day and be all alone and wander why I let him treat me like he did. I am so confused!!! Help……….
dear melissa, read at least all the top articles listed on the left. then buy mr. unavailable and the fall back girl. this arrangement has so many red flags, it’s going to end up in heart break. what you consistently see in your guy, that’s what you will get. no, it will most likely not get better. choose YOU. for your own sanity, please get out now. i’m sorry. it does not look good at all.
Dear Melissa …. Natashya has given you sound advise. You are on a one way road to heart break. Can u read between the lines ?? There are HUGE red flags a waving. Maybe if you read what you wrote above as it if someone else wrote it you can see where your heading. Nat has some really good post on about everything your talking about. Read them, let them sink in.. There are very few exceptions to the rules. I thought I was one at one time. Not so much as learned the hard way & you will too if you continue on the path your on. I am sorry I cant give you encouragement to stay course with your relationship because I know that what you want to hear. I cant do that…
Melissa, in the best of cases – he loves you dearly but has some psychological issues that make him unable to treat you right – you´re still in a bad situation.
You do not want to wate your life on a damaged, emotionally disabled man, you need someone who loves you. Because if indeed he is damaged (which I don´t think, but let´s assume in theory that he is), no loving and patience and whatever you do will help him change. On the contrary, you are enabling his bad behaviour.
The only thing that would be helpful in this situation is for you to focus on your feelings and not to accept his poor treatment. If there is an ounce of decency in him, he might – just might – change his ways. But my suspicion is he´s a lost cause, take care of yourself and get out asap.
oh Melissa, i cringed when I read your post. I was exactly the same when I started reading BR. I thought my situation is not so bad, it can still be salvaged…unfortunately that was not the case. I don t mean to be rough, but im sure everyone here will agree. Secret is a big big problem. and the other things that you seem to be perfectly aware of. Reread your post and let it sink in..if you can see it now, believe me, its much worse in reality.
Please Read these posts on BR, they will open your heart and mind, and stay with us. Find a way to exit as elegantly and swiftly as possible, so that you dont have to go through the humiliation of begging and chasing for love like most of us have.
You are an amazing creature and deserve so much more!
Many hugs (from a girl who saw too, but failed to act. then acted. then went back to begging and chasing and waiting to be loved until no dignity was left. then finally left cause it was the only thing that could be done)
Nat is right, Melissa. Read on with the articles, read the posts here, get a book. I think you are getting loving confused with needing. Love is a verb — love is a doing word. If he doesn’t even say he likes you and speaks unkindly, it’s not a mutually satisfying relationship. I see RED flags especially with your thought that he will change with you showing him how to because of what you give. This is the biggest red flag of all.
In my case it’s way too late to salvage any dignity, I can’t really believe how far I pushed it. One Sunday morning we were drinking coffee and talking about getting back together, two days later I ran our of heating fuel (I live in Northern Alaska) and went to his place. It was like Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde: he wouldn’t let me stay the night and I wouldn’t leave. In my defense I had a cold cabin and had just moved out of his place, but I staged Custard’s last stand that night on his porch and he hasn’t spoken to me since. It’s been a month. I also recently had to drop out of school and work full time, and take a second job teaching to pay for the closing costs of selling my property in Anchorage, which I recently lost over 65,000$ on. So a triple whammy at the moment and suffering a good bout of depression. I keep apologizing to him and telling him how sad I am things ended so badly, how much pain I’m in, how I’m not eating and sleeping since. God I feel so awful. Anybody out there who can offer support, advice, etc I am really hurting here.
Hey Ziggy, just wanted to send you some love and warmth form across the pond. That’s a triple and a half you’ve been dealt, and probably why its feels so damn bad right now- a lot of it might be down to the other circumstances, and just wanting to know that someone has got your back, someone cares. I guess he isn’t fulfilling that role, so if you can, please try pull away from him and turn to friends, turn to the ladies on here and also turn to yourself- I always remind myself of Amy Winehouse’s line (who btw, i believe was essentially ‘killed’ via her useless, horrible ‘husband’, but that’s another story…) “I should just be my own best friend, not fuck myself in the head with stupid men”.
Also, don’t know if you’re into that sort of thing, but Pema Chodron, Buddhist nun, is amazing on what happens when life seems have to fallen to pieces- it got me thru a lot of horrible times last year when I was homeless and lost reeling from break-up/ heartbreak. She does audiobooks which I found very soothing.
Take care, stay warm in your heart, and have faith the cold will pass, and remember as Nat says its NEVER too late to salvage your dignity, however late it is, now is as good a time as any. This too shall pass xxx
Hello, I love books on tape. I sit behind a computer all day drafting and it gets to be such the long hours. I will check out Chodron. I initially found this site to find advice on how to apologize and win over your ex. But it is all about letting go and moving on, which is good I guess. I know I need to. But this situation is really hard because HE is not the asshole: I am. I am the one who was being difficult towards the end, being demanding, sulking, getting mad almost daily about things since I moved into my own place. Of course I drove him away with that insufferable, childish behavior. I almost had won him back, working towards a reconciliation, when I totally ruined all that hard work by going to his place (drunk). It was an insufferable display, and he is now using No Contact on me: he doesn’t take my calls, respond to my emails or texts. All the advise on this sight is how you shouldn’t take your ex back if he comes crawling, but I am that ex. I am the one Nat is advising against. I feel like a horrible person.
Ziggy – Maybe you can give yourself the same compassion you would give a best friend, a little sister or brother. Know that you can only do what you can until you reach a point to do differently. Until then, and when and if you do, try to offer yourself the love and kindness you deserve.
you are not horrible ziggy, you are just scared and hurt. talk to us and natalie, read these posts and the stories and you will find some comfort. its never too late and you are out!! you are free, because its all in the past. i hope you will see that soon, i know its hard now. many hugs 🙂
Hey Ziggy, Just give it some time. Don’t paint yourself as the asshole, because then he becomes the saint. These dualisms don’t help, they make the situation more painful. If you were truly a horrible person, you would not be feeling guilty. In fact, it seems to me like you’re behaving very normally in a set of extraordinarily difficult circumstances, so give yourself a bit of a break. Circumstances make such a difference – they shouldn’t, but they do. I know I would not have attracted, let alone loved an EU-meanie, had I not already been crawling in life. Get yourself feeling better and in a better personal situation, THEN see what and who you attract. It’s not about winning him back, and I assure you, he’s not this perfect guy who did not put a foot wrong. But that’s not really the point: look after yourself.
Ziggy, your comments momentarily brought me back to where I was two years ago and even farther back. Go straight to the nearest mirror and repeat 100 times that YOU ARE NOT A HORRIBLE PERSON. Do it every day for 100 days. Sweet Jesus, you are NOT the demanding, sulking arsehole. You may be trying to get love from a dry well? You are not a horrible person. Since you sit in front of computer all day, read everything on BR and order Nat’s books ASAP. You did not drive him away. Stop the finger pointing at you and get him off that pedestal. It seems you may be in the throws of “it” but you need to be honest, what would you “win”? Don’t answer that right now. Put it on the back burner. Be quiet and still. No more texts or emails or calls. Be with yourself and BR for a few days, weeks or months. As Nat says: “It’s never too late to pull back. It doesn’t matter when your dignity kicks in; it just matters that it does at some point.” Trust me Ziggy, I’ve had some ragers, some insufferable drunk displays, and done totally stupid shit. That’s a red flag. If I have to do handstands naked on the porch to get a guy to notice me, he ain’t worth it. STOP. NOW. He’s not that special. He just isn’t. Please write back. I want to know how you are doing.
you are NOT a horrible person. hurt can drive us to do desperate things. stop beating yourself up and turn on your dignity switch. that’s something you can do for you right now. craziness is not a good sign of a healthy relationship and if you’re the one who’s been behaving out of control, time to take your power back.
((hugs))
Ziggy there are some people who just bring out the worst in us. Keep that in mind. If that isn’t your usual behavior then it may be that situation. My ex once told me my behavior was UGLY Yea well how come it is ugly? You brought it out in me. And btw after he told me he would never talk to me again I said to him….Good Please don’t!!! He came back anyway and stronger than ever because he knew he was the one who made me flip out with his inconsistant, passive aggressive behavior…Don’t contact him. He will most likely contact you then and you can tell him where to go 🙂
Big hugs for Ziggy. Oh my dear. I wish I had magic bullet words for you. Chin up honey. This time will pass and you will be stronger. Draw on whatever support you have there and begin to surround yourself with only POSITIVE people.
Thank you all for your replies, I am just settling into work for the day and these comments really comfort me. Last night I finally managed to get the temperature in my cabin regulated and I slept like a baby – I haven’t really slept more than 2-3 hours since the incident. I woke up at 5 am feeling a lot better. Also, I have been missing a lot of work lately. When I came in this morning my boss gave me a big hug and said she was glad I made it in today. She is so awesome, I would not be making it without this boss. It’s the first time I’ve ever worked for a woman and holy it makes all the difference. I love working for her. At least there’s that. I have much to be thankful for and am so glad to find this website. It’s a place to get out my obsessive thoughts that make it difficult to concentrate on other things like my work. My ex is making his way back to Alaska after being stuck in MA during the hurricane. I plan to go over there on Sunday morning with coffee to try to talk and apologize in person for what went down. He’s been out of town since and I am hoping we can work things out. I know I should walk away but I’m 34 and feel like I’ve been waiting all my life for a nice guy like him. He’s been through two divorces and has 3 DUI’s and is now somewhat sober (more of a binge drinker) and is in the middle of finishing his dissertation. So there’s a lot we are both going through right now. I feel the worst is that the night I was over there was a work/school night for both of us and I kept him up pretty late. I’m not usually so selfish or irresponsible. If I take responsibility, apologize for my actions and try to make peace, I feel really optimistic that we can at least be friends. In all honesty I have already forgiven myself for what happened, and also feel like why didn’t he just let me sleep on the couch? They were delivering fuel the next day it didn’t have to get so ugly. So I really do know I am not the lone ranger on being a jerk: we were both jerks to each other.
Ziggy,
He is NC with you and not taking calls or returning texts or emails.
It’s good you have forgiven yourself, but that doesn’t give you licence to start up the same behaviours. Forgive yourself and use the calm to examine why you did this? If you were behaving poorly what was it that triggered that? Has anything changed. If he doesn’t want to communicate with you you should respect that. What you are saying strongly points to his being an alcoholic. Many women will tell you that no matter how nice the guy, his primary relationship will always be with the bottle, and you and any other woman he is involved with will get repeatedly thrown under the bus. The drink will always come first. I watched my father go through a succession of marriages, LTRS etc with lovely women. The cleverer ones came to their senses and walked sooner rather than later.
He has done you a favour by cutting you off.
There weren’t any incidents prior to the night of October 2nd. Our relationship was good until I moved into my new cabin and we started to fade out. We had been talking about getting back together and communicating regularly, up to the day of. I really messed up because I had stopped after work and had a few drinks then went to his place and he did not want to deal with me while I was intoxicated. His issues with alcohol are such that he doesn’t want to deal with it in terms of our breakup. I knew this and acted out anyways. I am not trying to disrespect him by trying to communicate, I just feel like once he gets home we can talk about it and work it out. Is this inappropriate of me?
Ziggy,
It is not a good idea to doorstep someone when they are NC with you. I many of us understand that urge or impulse to act, and it can be the hardest thing in the world to sit on your hands and hold back. However, a period of “doing nothing” may help you to see the situation more clearly.
There is a good quote which applies here, “if you are uncertain, do nothing and the situation will reveal itself”.
Just park the issue for a while.
i second that.
This is so hard. Like, I feel like if I just walk away now I will always wish I had done something more to try to save what we had. But clearly if he’s giving me the silent treatment on the phone, he would not appreciate it if I just showed up on his doorstep. Showing up with coffee on Sunday mornings was working well up the the incident. We would talk and opened up the possibility of getting back together. So it’s like, I’m looking at what worked well in the past and hoping it will work again. I just wish I hadn’t gone over there that night. It was my “fatal mistake” in a delicate situation. It’s almost like I was setting out to burn that bridge because I couldn’t stand to live in limbo. Now I just want to go back to limbo.
Oh Ziggy, hugs to you. Between now and when he gets back, devour everything on BR. Look up Natalie’s post on the “One False Move”. You don’t have to live in limbo. Some of these guys bolt when asked about clarification or god forbid a commitment. And I went through wishing that what worked in the past would work again. For me, the only reason “it” worked in the past was because I didn’t say anything, didn’t have needs, and tried to please him. That’s what worked but it is no way to live. He may be setting some boundaries. It would probably be respectful if you respected the boundaries and started to focus on YOUR boundaries. Do you really want to live in limbo? Do you really want to be demoted to “friend”. Your situation is all over these BR pages. Keep coming back.
Ziggy,
There’s a good post “one false move” on here. You didn’t make a false move. Don’t look on what happened as an isolated incident, it was the result of a long period of poor and ambiguous behaviour from him, and also, of he genuinely cared about you he wouldn’t cut you off because there was one unpleasant scene. Arguments and even rows do happen even in good relationships – not ideal, but they do – and they aren’t a deal breaker unless there are other serious underlying issues that the argument has brought to the fore. You were miserable about being in limbo, it is a miserable, denigrating, anxious place to be. Don’t try and go back.
He isn’t that special.
If there is any chance of rebuilding anything (and really it doesn’t sound like it, not of rebuilding anything that you will be happy with) you’ll have to let him miss you for a while first.
Before this I was handling the breakup awesomely. I played it cool while still letting him know how much I loved him. He needed space, he needed to finish his dissertation, he needed to work and pay off his ex wife’s lawyers (who just before we broke up sent him a “love letter” demanding 11K$). I was like, totally. You do what you need to do, I still love you babe. Kisskiss good bye. I was awesome!! Then one day I just totally lost my sh*t. They simply REFUSED to deliver the heating fuel for my Toyo until the next day, and I had woken up at 5 am in my cabin and could see my breath it was so cold. I just didn’t want to go home. So it really was my fatal mistake, and he is either moving on to his previous ex or punishing me with this no contact. How long the punishment will last I don’t know. I was such an awesome girlfriend I am good at things like cooking amazing meals (comfort foods my specialty) and I have a healthy sex drive. I’m not overly jealous but just enough to let him know I care, I’m funny. I’m successful, I bring home the bacon and fry it in the pan. So WTF? I don’t know what men want I am so f*cking sick of Alaska men!!!
ziggy, he said he needed space to deal with a bunch of issues. this isn’t about you. it’s about him and his issues. it doesn’t matter that you were this super girlfriend to him. i was that to my ex. it didn’t matter one bit. if they aren’t ready, they just aren’t. he said he needed space. believe him.
“The more you do, the more you may think that you should just go for bust, after all you’ve come this far and ‘lost’ everything.”
I know I am not being “relationship smart”, but this sentence is exactly how I feel. I really appreciate the comments, it is sound advice and in choosing to ignore it – it is not because I don’t appreciate it. I just have to talk to him face to face. I’ve been going through a living hell since October 2nd and I do feel like I’ve lost everything. How much worse could things get really? If he looks into my eyes and says “it’s over” then I will have a second chance to walk away with dignity. Two days prior to the incident we talked about sharing our lives together, when the timing was better.
This is my argument: I will remain sober – both for him and for me (I have always secretly admired tee-totalers anyways, and have no real desire to drink) and agree to see a counselor to deal with my “pain” and my “burdens” as he calls them. I will tell him I have changed from this, that I see myself more clearly now and I will continue down the right path. If he has empathy and cares about me at all, this should be enough. I’m not hitting the “reset button” I’m facing head on the problems that existed in our relationship, belonged to both of us, and I really want to work it out.
I know everyone’s best advise is to just walk away from the wreckage and move on without any further confrontation. I may regret not taking this advise. I will post again after I see him, here’s to hoping for the best.
I talked to him this weekend. He says he forgives me and isn’t angry anymore. But it is over, he has no interest in getting back together and he wants his space. I have no choice but to give up on him and move forward with my life. The only way to do that is to go no contact so I begin today.
Good luck Ziggy. We are all with you on this journey. I got a hoover today. A missed call and a text asking “aren’t you talking to me, ha ha?” Yeah, like how you have treated me is really funny?
I love that bit about how it doesn’t matter when your dignity kicks in, just that it does at some point.
I’d just like to say to all those who are suffering at the moment how well NC works. I did it 18 months ago and it was the quickest and only foolproof way I’ve ever found of getting over a fool.
When I was still raw from the relationship I was on this site constantly, reading all the old posts and hungrily devouring the new. I don’t need to do that any more and haven’t for a long time but I still check in and read because Natalie’s brilliant advice and insights are useful for all the different types of relationships you might have. If you find yourself tying yourself in knots over an assclown the chances are that you have quite the history in family, friendships, work relationships and get into a vicious circle of trying to prove yourself and get validation. NC is a step back to realise that boundaries = self-esteem = boundaries and so into a virtuous circle, healthy relationships and a happy life.
I haven’t read the 66 prior comments, so I am not sure if this has been said, but I think that the same can be advised against chasing for closure at the end of a relationship, especially with an EUM/W. Sometimes, we work to hard to try to learn “why” we were dumped… or we indignantly want the other person to stop being a coward and ‘fess up to the true reasons for why they left. It makes sense right after being dumped to try and get these questions answered, but if the person keeps up with their EU MO and refuses to answer you after weeks or months of persistent chasing, then its best to give up on getting that specific kind of closure. My Person of Addiction (PoA – borrowing from TheLovelyAddict.com’s language) kept assuring me that I did nothing wrong – he just got too busy. I knew it was a total lie! Yet, nothing I said or did got him to be real with me, and I realized that I was losing my dignity, ironically, in this pursuit of truth and justice.
Sometimes, the only closure is that there will be no closure with a person who is avoidant and emotionally unavailable.
Amanda — I agree. I had to do this for myself with the marriage that ended and a recent encounter with an AC. Neither of them gave me peaceful closure so I had to give it to myself. And I’m pretty sure Nat has a post on this in her archives. We have to give ourselves closure. Don’t use the lack of closure from them as an excuse to hang on.
It is hard when you share kids and they want a friendship and you need to heal. Then they say no child support if no friendship while they are dating and hiding it from you. Why hide it we are no longer together if they have someone why want a friendship at least while I heal we broke up a year ago and we text daily still have not told me about her. They are getting a place together soon and still have not even mentioned to me. He even takes me to dinner time to time. How is one suppose to heal?
I don’t know of any courts that require women to stay friends with their ex on pain of losing child support. You owe him a certain amount of civility for the children’s sake, but you don’t owe him face time or daily texting. For your own sake, you should cut your contact to a minimum and perhaps chat with a family law attorney about child support options. Good luck.
Great post! It has been almost 4 months since I was dumped by an EUM. Til this day, I am angry; angry that I wasn’t strong enough to walk away when I knew I was being mistreated, angry that I dismissed all warning signs and warnings from others, and most importantly angry that I allowed someone to use me and disrespect over and over again. I too want to tell him how badly I’m hurt but that would accomplish nothing. I have been 100% NC for about a month, and he even had the audacity to tell a mutual friend of ours that I was being “mean” and “rude” for not responding to his texts! That made me even more angry!
After that I had the strongest urge to tell him how I feel. Why is it rude for me to establish NC to move on, but not rude of him to disrespect me for so long?! I have allowed this person to manipulate me, but I’m finally choosing myself in order to keep my dignity. I no longer want him in my life and can’t wait for the day when I feel completely indifferent about this situation.
Why is it rude for me to establish NC to move on, but not rude of him to disrespect me for so long?!
Because it’s ALL about him. It’s what they do. They are manipulative, arrogant, spoiled little three year old brats! I feel your pain and know your anger. It will get better. It really helps to think about yourself first, as in, “Do I want to be treated like this?” “Do I have any respect for this person knowing what I know about them now?” “Do I need them in my life?” “Do I even want to be associated with someone who behaves like this?”
Once I started asking the questions from MY perspective, I started to feel empowered. I was making the decisions, not Mr. Wrapped Up In His Own Tiny Little Mind. And once you start feeling empowered and in control of making decisions based on what’s best for YOU, not what’s best for him, things get a lot better.
I used to have the same anger, now I think he’s just pathetic and totally ridiculous and I laugh about it to myself. You’ll get there too!
Brilliant post Natalie. I have been reading around and realized taht the ex eum is probably ex narc. The witholding sex is apparently classic cerebral narc. They prefer to do it with the one they love the most ( themselves) actualy he told me early on that he masturbated 2 to 3 times every day. Anyway, I had been waiting to receive a call from him. It’s always a call as he is brilliant verbally whereas I am a little slower and prefer texts/emails, so he NEVER emails. I wanted to get the call so I could ignore it and then send him a shitty text. Not one saying how he had hurt me and destroyed my self confidence ( he has) but just saying how he just isn’t that special etc. after reading this I have decided not to even do that. You just do not know with these twisted people what they might get off on and use to feed their egos. I will just ignore him. I had to go to his town today unavoidably and was really anxious all day, actually terrified of seeing him. I am quite afraid of him now and can see I have had a really lucky escape. I have told him I miss him and that I have been feeling very sad, after he persistently called me and I stupidly answered and puffed him up no doubt. However, it was a comfort to me to read what Natalie says that it doesn’t matter too much. I have my dignity now. I know I was a fantastic source of narcissistic supply to this man and at some point he will be back. He even told me no other woman had ever treated him so well or cared for him as much as me.All I got in return was being dragged along on his ego trip with my self esteem in tatters. Anyone who is secretly hoping the ex contacts them, please listen to me when I say you should be so, so grateful that they aren’t.
Hi all,
I’ve not posted anything in here for a long time, mainly because I’ve been reading stuff here and applying them. Some may remember my AC story, but it doesn’t matter either way. It’s way too long to get into. I got hooked by an AC bus driver and decided to walk away after he asked me for my phone number (while living with a girlfriend) 8 months after I met him. This was in early May. After the most difficult summer of my life, including some Facebook peeking and cycling past his house a couple of times, I’ve not heard from him in any way. That’s the extremely short version.
Last month an auto accident had me driving home another, longer route than I usually go. I also take the bus occasionally. I pulled up to a stoplight and guess who’s bus I see at the other stoplight? He knows what my car looks like and was totally straining to see if it was me. It’s not wishful thinking, either. He was obvious. Well, I decided to do a couple little experiments just to see where his head was. He had never made contact with me all summer, which was hard for me – you know, validation and all. After work I pull up to where I know he will see my car in the park and ride stop, and sure enough, as he drives away he’s straining to see if I’m inside (I’m hiding in the back, tee hee. ME?? STALK?? never….). The next day I did the same thing. This time….I should mention that I would always tell him he shouldn’t wear glasses because he has awesome eyes ….as he drives away this second time I notice as he’s peering in my car once again he’s not wearing his glasses this time. A week goes by and I park there again, and I’m by my car getting ready to drive away after another bus drops me off when I hear this honking. I ignore it. A second honking, this time louder. It’s him getting my attention. I walked over and he tells me, with a big smile, that he’s retiring, and he extends his hand to me and gives me a firm handshake, then introduces me to his grandkids who were on the bus with him. I think to myself that he has FINALLY pulled his head out of his a** and will stop flirting and doing stupid stuff behind his girlfriend’s back, and actually take his family seriously. I tell him to take care and as I walk away he tells me he’ll see me around and winks at me. Apparently he’s NOT pulled his head out of his a**. Does he really think I’m still pining away??? Oh yes, I still have feelings for him, but I’m also a lot smarter and stronger than I was during the summer. Did he peer into my car and take off his glasses thinking he’d see me/I’d see him and all that craziness I felt and went through would come flooding back?? PuhLEEZE. One of his Facebook statuses I saw way back in June was that he was with “the love of his life.” REALLY?? And THIS is how you treat her??? She can fricken have you. Believe me when I say it is totally his loss. I’ve moved on, and in fact am dating a decent guy. I’ve known him for two years but when we met back then we weren’t in the right place to date. It’s funny how life turns. I don’t know where this will go, but I am just enjoying it.
One of my best guy friends told me that the bus driver honked because he was thinking, “hey, I could have tapped that so I better get her attention.” LOL I admit that I do wonder what he his thinking and feeling, though. I probably always will, and I told myself that I truly didn’t want to forget him. After all, I did have some fun with him and the feelings I had were mostly of a fantasy, and some dependence on my part. But, I do have decent memories of him. I’d like to think that that firm handshake he gave me was a sign of respect. Who knows. Doesn’t really matter anymore. I doubt I will see him again, at least not on purpose.
KayakerKathy,
Oh dear, hiding in your car to see if he pays attention to it seems counterproductive to me. Honestly ask yourself….if the guy you are currently dating told you he was hiding in his car to see what his ex would do when she saw it, would you feel he was too wrapped up in her still? I’ve done some stuff in my time, so I’m not judging, but this seems to be exactly what Nat’s post is about. I had a jerk ex rubberneck my car when I drove by an intersection a few months ago and it made me furious, like how dare he! I would never purposely put myself in the position to bait him….it seems self degrading and pointless ( and a bit like ripping off a band aid). Why go there? You already know he’s an AC who runs around behind his girlfriend’s back…why look for more proof? Who cares why he honked, it makes no difference.
Hi Selkie,
Well, I actually didn’t start dating my boyfriend until about three weeks ago, so my psycho moments had already passed. lol But you’re right, I was not a very productive thing to do. I saw the AC peering at me and all those feelings came back. We didn’t even have a ‘relationship’, it was just me hoping after an image and responding to his carrots he would dangle in front of me. I still go through ‘moments’ but it’s all getting so much better. I guess these things just take time to get out of our systems. What’s weird is that we know these idiots are not good for us (pity the girlfriend) but we still have feelings for them.
DEAD ON Natalie! Thank you so much for another wonderful piece that I much needed to read.
I’ve been in NC for over 2 months now and it’s really been the best solution.
My ex, me and my best friend moved in together back in May after only 6 months of being together.(Yeah…should have probably been with him longer then the lease). Seemed like such a good plan at the time until we broke up a MONTH into the lease lol. I lived there for 2 months after I broke up with him…It was horrible to say the least. A constant mind game and finding myself tipsy in his bed, him and his friends joking about our relationship on Facebook like it was a joke, me sitting on his bed telling him how I felt I made a mistake and him talking to girls in hearing distance…it became unbearable.
I moved out the first of September. BEST DECISION EVER. The downside is that my best friend still lives there until the lease is up, that’s what makes this break up harder on me.
He sent me a text wishing me a happy birthday and to have a great day. I wanted so bad to ask him how he was blah blah but all I texted back was “Thanks”. Im sure that fed into his ego garden but I have vowed NC since then and have stuck to it since.
I have my off days but Natalie’s blogs and writing have been the best therapy. My good friend who’s a psychology major told me she thinks my ex is gay…which made me laugh hysterically and made me and my best friend really considerate it. He might be.
That mind set of thinking my ex is gay has inspired me to write this please give it a read 🙂 it reminds me when I feel like Im going to break that I felt this way before and will feel this way again, Enjoy!
Note: comment has been edited to remove a poem that is in breach of site guidelines. As people have already commented, I have left the remainder of the comment and the subsequent responses.
I’m not so sure about your analogy. Perhaps you can change “gay” to “dead”
I appreciate your input 🙂 But for my particular situation and my friend’s diagnosis on my ex, he reall could be gay lol. It’s not an analogy. Thinking that this break up wasn’t all about me and my issues and seeing it in a way of it being him and his not yet discovered sexuality issues made my mind not put all the blame on myself.
I agree, PP. Lisalamb, it sounds as though you just want to live as though you know there’s no chance of ever going back to them, and that it wasn’t about you.
Them being gay doesn’t necessarily guarantee any of that (having seen more than one friend move from one orientation to another and back over decades).
I agree, and if he were gay would you just stop loving him? I doubt it. Re the “dead” alternative, I saw a made up bumper sticker on another site that read “Beep if you’re a narcissist – then drive straight into a tree.” Well that cheered me up for a bit.
PP, Magnolia and Victorious I understand what you mean and you are very much right.
I guess right now I can’t see him as “dead” as I would like. My best friend is still his roommate and it is difficult to see him as dead in my heart and mind. I guess the “gay” analogy is my coping analogy. I can’t cut off from him mentally right now as I would like as if he was dead, it’s taking time.
Thanks a lot guys! Your comments really opened my eyes
The reason why I suggested you might want to change that is because it’s a tad homophobic.
I’ve got to call em as I see em.
I just wanted to add a note here that my comment scanning was clearly not very good last night as I don’t recall seeing this poem (note to self don’t read comments while half-asleep and watching Made In Chelsea).
I appreciate that the intention of the poem was to find a way to change the perspective you hold on this guy so that you can neutralise your feelings, but there is some very insensitive language in there that can be construed as homophobic. For instance, even if he is gay, it wouldn’t make him any less of a man. This is one of those situations where just like when I’ve intervened on comments about race, or mental illness, or weight, or attractiveness, to just be careful and consider how your comment may be read by others or how you may be saying something that is actually about some readers of the blog. Yes gay men and women do read this site. Again, I recognise that it was not your intention to offend and I also see that you now see the point that commenters have raised on the issue, so hopefully you can find another way of coping.
This is a bit demeaning to gays, isn´t it? And I agree with Victorious, his sexual orientation wouldn´t change your love for him – because it´s yours, not his.
I have sort of a crush on a lovely kind handsome male gay friend, and I don´t feel it makes any difference that he likes men. He would be a wonderful partner, though… men always get the best pick, lol.
Don’t go there Lilia – I have that t-shirt and it has haunted me the past 25 years. I still dream of him.
Thanks Victorious, but don´t worry. I fully know and accept that he is out of bounds.
I´ve been around gay men since I was a kid so it´s not something ambiguous to me – I never fall into the “if only”s, you know?
Thank you for posting this Nat. I am trying to go NC with my assclown, but its difficult. He has done all the crazymaking things to me over the last two and a half years, but it’s worse than that. He is friends with a bunch of losers that also like to harass and bully me. The assclown has never stuck up for me. When I try to stick up for myself, then all of a sudden it gets turned around, and I am the one causing trouble. I am a rape victim, and he has even used that to hurt me with. He uses my problems as a stick to beat me with.He says terrible, awful things to me. I feel very alone and isolated. I find strength from reading Nat’s posts and from all you lovely ladies.I am trying to get better, but it’s hard.
It hurts,
You have the power right now to make a choice. Do you want to continue to be around a crazymaking bully who abuses you (along with his cronies) or do you want to find other friends who will love you and allow you to get stronger without enabling you? It’s a choice. Right now you have it. Do you see it? It’s right in front of you. You are not locked in a prison. The door is open if you want to walk through it.
It’s not going to get better as long as you view yourself as a victim and as long as you continue the relationships with these people. Why do they abuse you? Because they can. Because you’re there. Because you allow it. Don’t.
Maybe I’m the bitch of BR, but I don’t have any sympathy for you. Yes, you have been through some horrid things that you didn’t deserve and have no control over. But you’re here now. As long as you see yourself as the victim, you will be victimized. Make a different choice.
Rev is right. When the ex narc/eum got his claws into me I was a victim. I was his prey. I was naive and innocent and did not deserve the subsequent managing down of my expectations and crumb feeding, boundary busting and devaluing.
However, after I finally got the strength to ditch him and mean it, but then a month later, answered my phone when he called, I was no longer a victim. I then became a VOLUNTEER.
Revolution, or should that be Revolting? Thank you for your lovely.comment. Yes you are indeed a bitch. I don’t see how any decent person could tell a rape SURVIVOR that they don’t have any sympathy for them.
It hurts,
Maybe I should rephrase my comment.
I don’t have any sympathy for you NOW because you have a choice NOW to get out of your situation.
As for what you previously went through, and in line with my first comment, I think what happened to you was vile in every way and you were powerless to stop such a thing at that time. I am very sorry you had to go through that, and yes I have all the sympathy in the world for that.
Having said that, let’s get back to the present moment. This is where you live NOW, and where you have the power to make a different choice. A choice that can make a positive difference in your life. Having sympathy for you NOW will not help you. The only thing that will help you NOW is empowering you and encouraging you to take ACTION. Do you see the difference?
I hope that you take the steps to get out of your situation, not for me or anyone else on BR, but for YOU.
I wish you nothing but the best.
Rev
It Hurts,
Please go No Contact this instant and get some counseling for Rape Survivors. There are places that even counsel for free. And it doesn’t matter how long ago the rape occurred. I know, I’m a survivor too. Notice I said SURVIVOR, not victim???
You are most likely picking EUMs/ACs because of the trauma and damage to your sense of self and worth due to the rape. The counseling will help immensely with all of this. I beg you, find a rape crises center in your area, call them now and go talk to someone qualified to help.
You survived. Because you ARE strong.
Thanks Pintura, I have been getting counselling from Victim Support, its hard going,but I’m getting there.
It was so sad to read your post dear It Hurts…I wish you all the best. Stay strong please, rid of your unsenistive AC, try to be around postive and understanding people…I hope counselling will help you xxx
It Hurts, You are very welcome. It is hard going, but very much worth it because we are worth it. I’m glad you’re going to Victim Support. It really does help, even when you feel like you’re feeling stuck and going over and over the same stuff. It’s a process, hang it there!!!
Thank god for these timely posts. I have been NC for ten months, the first three months were hell but gradually and through BR I am healing. Then, the ex AC seems to be showing up and accidentally (!) bumping into me while I am shopping, out with friends, walking etc. I exchanged pleasantries and once I buckled and had dinner. I felt it was time wasted when I could be doing something more enjoyable. I kept him at arms length, then recently the texting started. These long winded texts bout how much he missed me,wanted to get back together, he was thinking of me all the time and could not move on till he knew that it was REALLY over! etc etc I told him I had moved on. Still more texts, so I finally agreed to meet for coffee. The first thing he said was “I made a mistake in sending those texts”, I was feeling low and melancholy and had drunk a bottle of red wine!!!” So are you now retracting everything you said??? “No I still miss you” and then he said “I am not a predator.” Weird thing to say which makes me think he has been doing a bit of stalking!!!! He proceeded to tell me all the things bout ME that he thinks contributed to our failed relationship. I wanted to give him a piece of my mind and my thoughts bout his hurtful ways but I held it together, maintained my dignity. He got nothing back, no tears, no sorries, no I miss yous and I told him I have nothing to offer you anymore. It was a total ego stroke for him in getting me to meet for coffee. Never, ever again.
“You’ve got to know the line and you’ve got to know when to fold.”
I think because my marriage was not brutal or cruel in the “traditional” sense (I just lived in an emotional desert with a people pleasing underdeveloped man and had to make all the decisions – but I got confused because he had decent qualities too and was a good father) I just never knew when to “fold” – it was like I was brainwashed in some ways and because he was always “trying to change” (so he said) I kept justifying staying “in” the relationship. But I kept going round in circles and it WAS a type of insanity. And my gut knew it. My “brain” however, kept trying to talk me out of what I could feel. (Maybe he would change? Maybe I was too demanding? Maybe?)
My never actually leaving the situation gave him “permission” to NOT work on himself in a real way. I talked and talked and cried and cried but I actually didn’t do anything but drag him to some more therapy or go to therapy myself. He got used to my being there…and it saddens me to think that I contributed to this sick and actually degrading (to me) arrangement. I think that too much talking, too much trying to get somebody to “see” – how you are hurting does become degrading and one of the indicators that I am getting better is that I don’t have that need anymore. It was a real hook and not a healthy one.
I also LOVE the comment about needing to play my my emotional cards closer to my chest. Because I wanted the marriage to work (the stakes were high) I felt I needed to explain what I was feeling so he would “get it” and be more aware, more emotionally engaged etc. And I did want to share my feelings with somebody close. I feel good about protecting my emotional privacy more in the past year….and in not having to convince anybody that I should be treated in a certain way. I see clearly that it is up to ME to see how I want to be treated and take appropriate action. I haven’t got the time to screw around anymore.
Wow, espresso. Were we married to the same man? 😉
I actually did tell an exAC in vivid detail how fucked over I was by her lying/cheating using ways. In her case I think it really shamed her to the core. It ended up working in my favor because she never shows her face anywhere that she thinks I may go. This is great for me. I have complete freedom to visit and place I wish without ever a worry that she may also be there, even if some of her friends may be there also. I know this is a rare scenario in that I believe she is so ashamed. I also think she may be paranoid that I may somehow “do” something to make her life hard as she is not a naturalized citizen of the US. I would never resort to such lowly behavior, but I think on some level she must feel like she deserves to be punished!
It’s sort of funny and ironic, and at lest I can go out without ever running into her. I think she now lives under a rock…
As far as any other case which may happen in the future, I won’t try to gain dignity through telling them how much they hurt me. This one was just a free pass.
Once again another very timely post right when I need it. I made the mistake of answering the phone after being NC for over 2 months. With that phone call, I lost all shred of dignity. I puffed up his ego so big I’m sure he floated away. It felt so good to hear that he missed me and that everything reminded him of me, but what did I gain from that? Absolutely zilch. Instead I was left with my heart shredded and my eyes pouring for days afterward. Natalie is right though. It is never to late to find your dignity and play your cards closer to your chest. He has subsequently sent me texts “how are you.” and what not, but I have reminded myself over and over how I felt the last time I let the floodgates open, and remained NC. It’s really really difficult to do. I almost overflow with the urge to call and tell him the little things about the days that go by that I know he would laugh about. I ache to hear his voice. I long to feel that validation and the relief in my heart. It’s sad to say but that’s what I feel when I hear him say he misses me. Complete and utter reprieve from the constant pain I feel. I am working so fucking hard to give myself the validation and love that I need. This blog has been absolutely imperative to my “recovery” and I am trying to take it one day at a time. I just wish sometimes that it wasn’t such an uphill battle. I just want to rest for a while.
Jen,
Your comment really struck a cord in me. My BF just broke up with me recently and I have been very poor on sticking to NC. I get sad and lonely and call or he calls and he says he misses me and I feel worse. It happened on Monday…he called, I sounded down, he said what is wrong, and I tried to play it off but finally said I miss you and I’m sad. And of course he said I miss you too, but not enough to get back together apparently.
Hang in there and I will take heed of your experience to stick to the NC!
Hi to all,
These posts are keeping me sane while I try to survive one month of NC with the ex-MM. I want to say I found Pema Chodron before I met the MM and she along with BR has saved my soul.
Chodron writes so well about what to do when things fall apart. I have felt so many times that I couldn’t go on. My heart is broken, my soul is crushed and I have lost faith in humanity all because of a lying, cheating, pot smoking, sex addict of an AC.
BR has told me that I am not alone and to find a way to love myself (I could use some help on that one). But Pema helps me to understand this difficult time can also be a way for me to open up my heart.
Namaste
I too have started reading Pema and it has helped a lot. And meditating (or trying to as its hard to calm my mind enough sometimes).
Like the person above posted there are days when I so long to just hear his voice and talk about the day. I can’t believe 11 years are gone like *that*.
All I can say anymore is thank you for making me what I am today, NO – That don’t mean I am returning to you, It just means I know a lot more about what I really want and where I want to go in life.
Thank you UM’s for being so undecided and wishy washy that I see it’s just not for me, “looks weak anymore and NOT something to take personal, or ever take on again.” and sorry for your pains but you need to look in the mirror before looking at me, and her, and the other from now on, becasue that is where it all starts and ends for all of us.
This is an amazing post, and more so because of the phrase about it never being too late. I just wanted to say that it is only a month since my partner/EUM/Control Freak’s slow emotional withdrawal (followed by a spineless nod of the head when I asked if he was trying to tell me something). I left straight away and moved in with a friend (dignity points). He did not even try to see where I was or if I was ok that night (serious blow to self-esteem). There then followed an exchange of emails and a few phone calls where I lost the dignity points gained when I walked, and this was precisely for the reasons Outlined in the post. I did not beg to be taken back, but I wanted him to appreciate how his life had not changed when I moved in with him. I had rented my own house out so had nowhere to go, I had turned down a seriously well paid job abroad because I was in luurrrv. I was not eating or sleeping (still struggling there) and I wanted him to KNOW because he was so callous, clinical and emotionless. The result was: I got more upset because he became more callous, clinical and emotionless. He even sent an email attaching a list of handy hints for “getting over me”!! How helpful. But most painful of all, when trying to negotiate the return of the possessions I have left, I tried to do this through friends so that I did not have to see him. He refused, insisting that we do it ourselves. He wanted it to be controlled and organised. I was so frustrated that I did cry on the phone and tell him that I wad suffering and all over the place. His response? I don’t deserve to hear this. Do you realise how unattractive ranting is? (Major loss of dignity). So it is NOT WORTH IT! This post has given me some hope, however. After I got my stuff back, I received an email saying that he hoped we could be friends in time. I have not replied (slight regain of dignity) and do not intend to. No Contact is the only way I can recover, and this site is a Godsend. Thanks to those who replied to an earlier post when I was having a very bad day. I just wish I knew how to get rid of the anger I feel now because even if I don’t act on the feelings, deep down I still want him to know the consequences of his actions and I feel ready to explode.
Wow. Sending you a list of “handy tips” on how to get over him ranks up there in the top ten major asshole things I’ve heard of yet on this site. Sounds like a major, callous effing creep!! Of course you’re angry! You have to find an outlet so that you don’t a) send him a rage-filled letter, which will just make you feel worse afterwards (trust me, I’ve done this) or b) turn the anger against yourself (I’ve also done this – it’s called depression).
But getting angry and feeling the anger is healthy. Then you have to work through it, not ignore it. I’m a big bike rider and it helped me enormously to pedal my bike as fast as I could and with each pedal I would yell “fuck you, fuck you” as loud as I could (I was out in the middle of the woods). Using profanity is not easy for me, but I can’t tell you how liberating it was – and helpful – to call him every name in the book and get the anger out in a physical way. I’ve always had a hard time with anger but I’ve learned it’s a tool and ally.
I am with SBW, when I read about the handy hints to get over him I winced for you. What an arsehole! One day he will get over himself but by then you will be happy living your life and you genuinely won’t give a damn.
Ha ha, victorious he definitely needs some “handy hints” about how he can get over himself.
Here, I’ve got one for him! An affirmation!
Start with looking in the mirror each morning and repeating slowly “I am a partronising, hearless, jackass” three times. Do this every day, for as long as necessary.
I agree; what a cruel thing to do..the list of how to get over him!! Good for you for not replying to his email. Have you blocked his phone number yet? You being happy and fulfilled in your own life and not moping over his lame ass will be the best revenge.
I agree, this is incredible. If we ever choose the nr 1 AC from all of our experiences, he gets my vote.
Ha ha, he always thought he was the best at everything, so he would love that!! Anyone who monitors how much washing up liquid you use etc etc has to qualify! Am sure in the long run, I would have disappeared down the plug hole with it, had lost so much of myself. He told me I was not a viable long term proposition, too! Probably had a lucky escape, but the urge to point out his control freakery is great. Only day 5 NC. Long way to go x
Reminds me of the pregnacy I had by someone that wanted a baby then “changed his mind” and left me in the snow crying would not annwer the door.. My crying and hurting was just being desperate and stupid, never mind I had no idea where I was going to live, being told for months he would be there, don’t worry about it.
It is like those types really really get off on seeing you in pain.. Oh yeah I raised my son alone, he never had to change a diaper “Nothing” and has the nerve to call drunk asking if I would like to have another baby?
Yeah I want that again… and to gain 80 pounds from depression, raise another kid on my own and have no adult life.
Oh yeah I was the one trying to trap him.. NO I think it was the other way around, He was telling me that I was doing what in fact he was doing.
Likes to think we have something? we have nothing – I may as well gotten knocked up from a turkey baster seriously.
Trust me one day you will feel NOTHING for this guy.. Yu will see it’s a twisted and sick power trip he is on.
Thanks Revs
My armor and BR spidey senses has successfully repelled any and all attempts at inappropriate dudes to infiltrate my defenses in my attempts to move on (and whats UP with these on line nitwits anyway!). Theres still a raw festering wound that AC turns a sharp knife into regularly. Am going to have a realtor friend look at my casa and give me a realistic evaluation of my options. Another friend says that I need to find a new job where it means an increase in rank and salary, not accept financial ruin as the price of getting away from AC and this broken town.
Miskwa,
Standing in the face of AC attempts to break you (knife-turning). Considering your options and planning changes to help yourself (job and casa). Yep. Sounds like a warrior to me.
I’m with that second friend!
Dear Natalie,
I was just composing today an email to somebody i cared a great deal about for a long time and who in the past years i repeatedly had the feeling that he fancied me/liked me more than a colleague. Not even an ex, then… now i am not a teenager, and I like to believe that i did not imagine all that. the man in question has flirted with me now and then, he asked me out on a double date, he tried to make me go to some conference he was going to so that we get to know each other better (his words). i did not go, and my answer to this was ambivalent, as he never took it further. it was always yoyo-ing: he would get very close (not physically, though) to me, and then next time we saw each other, he would behave very profesional like we were just colleagues. i was going crazy., i have to say that in the beginning of our interaction i was depressive, still hurting after a very tough break-up, and not that successful at what i was doing. so that’s the reasons why i think he hesitated. but then, i cleaned my act, my work got better. still the yoyo continued.
I deleted him from facebook twice, although it caused me great pain, just to take distance. but he added me back. only later to behave like i am just a colleague…
now i applied for a job in another country just to get away from the situation (unfortunately due to the nature of my job, as long as i stay where i am, i have to be colleagues with him). i got accepted, so i will go, as it’s also a step forward for my career. still, my heart bleeds. I want to write him how much i liked him. not that i still want him, but i want him to know this. as there were so many fuzzy things between us. is that that bad?
Cri
Sounds a little like a fantasy relationship? It’s never got off the ground. You’ve neve been boyfriend, girlfriend in any meaningful sense of the word. Seems neither of you know what the other is thinking. It’s rich territory for imagining it would all be perfect if only …
If you think it is worth a shot, then ask him out. However, not if you can’t take no for an answer or if you sense that he’s enjoying having you around but doesn’t want to take it further.
I did ask out the boyfriend but only after he said “I really like you!” And he didn’t mean just friends
Dear Grace,
thank you for answering me. we are beyond that point (of dating, etc). i am going away, there is no turning back from that.
my feeling is that he liked me, but then there were lots of misunderstandings, hesitations, etc in the beginning. then, he might have got into a relationship (I am not 100% sure, but this is the only explanation i can find for his behavior lately), but still somehow cared about me. hence, the yoyo stuff. kind of like he was trying to keep me hooked to him like Natalie describes in this article without stepping further.
the context is also that i am an immigrant in his country. once he mentioned something like: sadly people like me (meaning having my work position) all have to leave eventually. so i was kind of not safe enough for him.
now i know that in a way contacting him might just feed his need to have some connection to me without giving much in turn. on the other hand, what drives me crazy in this situation is the lack of clarity, the ambiguity. i can take rejection. but with this guy all i seem to get unless i am really going for the kill (like confessing my feelings) is ambiguity. so i just need to clarify at least what can be clarified, which is my side of the story. and i confess, i hope i’ll get some crumbs of explanation. i am guilty i know, but i need to understand why things went the way that went
the way they went. sorry for the typos, i am just too emotional now
Cri
I would walk away from this, especially if it,s been going on a long time. Say more than six months. He’s as good as told you he isn’t interested in anything long term.
You may also be exaggerating in your own mind how deep the connection is. Facebook friends doesn’t mean anything and you don’t need to have much to do with him even if you’re in the same field. Unless you’re both astronauts in the same spaceship or suchlike.
You won’t get an explanation, i would let go of that. Time will make it clear enough if you avoid him as much as possible.
thank you, avoiding is just what i have been trying to do now. this goes on now for years. i avoided him as much as possible, dated other guys, trying to move on,… quite a few times i felt i was totally over this. then, somehow he just creeps back in my subconscious.
like in the summer we were at some conference (7 days of having to attend same work events, same social events). i avoided him in the coffee breaks, literally leaving people in the middle of the conversation when he was approaching and walking to the other corner of the room, skipping receptions, etc., but he still caught me up a few times. the worst was one evening at a dinner when he came to me while i was filling my plate and he invited me to sit next to him at the table. then, the whole evening he talked mostly with me (very unusual given the people around), there were some sexual innuendoes, jokes about marrying in my country, enquiries about my family, etc.
so, trust me is not in my imagination. when something like this happens all my defenses go down (cause i like(d) him so much). he also knows i am avoiding him, he knew i was avoinding him when he did that. it’s like we are not even greeting sometimes, and he has this hurt look when i avoid him. only if i let him close to come very close and then next day revert to indifference.
sorry for the rant. i just need to let it out somehow. the hardest part is exactly this, that i have no claim to anything whatsoever cause we never had sex. sometimes i think that’s also what goes on in his mind. that i am fair game for mindfucking as long as he doesn’t touch me.
Cri
What’s real: he likes jerking you around.
What’s imagination: that sex talk, jokes about marriage, being nosey about your family, showing off in front of other people, and being FB friends is a good prospect for a relationship.
If he wants to talk to you at events you don’t have to run off. Just say “hello”, be polite for a couple of minutes and find someone else to talk to. You’re not obligated to spend the evening with him being an ass.
I take back what I said. Don’t ask him out. And if he asks you out, say no.
It’s absolutely true, they don’t have to touch you to screw you over. But you don’t have to take it either.
E-xact-ly!
Don’t honor this guy with any more valuable time, at all. He’s what Americans call a di#k.
I agree with everybody here: don’t say anything!
I went through something like that ages ago. This German guy was being super flirty with me, but somehow, he never really asked me out. One day, I got tired and did the asking. You know what he said? “We’ll talk about it tomorrow.” The next day arrived. Nothing. A week passed. Nothing. He was clearly avoiding me. I felt so stupid! I finally met him by chance at a party three weeks later. And… he blanked me!!! Thank God he moved back to Germany soon after (I had no idea he was moving back btw, otherwise I’d have never asked him out).
Trust me, they know what they’re doing. Leave ambiguous guys where they belong!!
Cri,
I’ve recently found myself in a similar situation. Guy in yoga class flirts, shows up where I go for coffee afterward, invites me to join, walks me to my car, repeats this the next week, then is cool to me the next yoga class and won’t look at me. I decided that I value my yoga class (and myself) and don’t want it messed up with the whole ‘not shitting in your own yard’ thing. I had a tiny crush, but had no fantasy clouding my vision and let it go with relative ease when I saw the hot cold game, even in small proportions. I recognize the pull to try and jump through some hoops to try and get his attention (validation seeking) after he did a turn around….then stopped myself and said, Nah, flush that whole idea along with him. I’m not a dog doing tricks hoping to get a tiny treat out of it, and it feels damn good.
If this back and forth has gone on for some time now, you have more than enough info. Choose you Cri. Let it go, move on to greener pastures where the grass is offered readily, not where you have to squeeze your head through the fence to get more than a taste.
just to add: as long as i do not completely change my work area (like starting from scratch with some unrelated thing), I will never be completely away from this guy. even in the new job, there will still be connections, common meetings, etc.
Cri, I feel for you. Several times in my life I have emailed guys who sound like your bloke (who’ve been flirty, attentive, charasmatic) I’ve emailed out of politeness, wanting closure, or secretly perhaps wanting them to combust into a different person and FINALLY be clear as to what all those signals meant. It does not work.
If a guy wants to pursue you he will pursue you. You will feel so much better when you move on. Try to go as No Contact as possible. Hugs to you xx
This article was my situation to a tee.. He had issues with how i treated him earlier on in the relationship, when i went back to try and sort things out, it consisted of him using me to his advantage and expoliting me for what he could get, payback in his mind probably.. Ive finally woken up after telling him last week i want to move on properly now, he keeps sending the odd message but the main thing is im concious to the situation now and think if he wanted me back i dont think i would go back to somebody like that i deserve better and somebody who at least respects themself aswell as me..
W O R D !!!! and, will not get different results from same x-narcissist, sadist, predator. So I don’t give it another try.
I LOVE NO CONTACT and I’m truely Happy Again!!!
Life is too short to waste on these men.
I’m so grateful for this blog. I remember I was the girl who chased the guy this time last year & now I’ve grown into a strong woman who knows how to respect herself.
*Never thought I’d be able to say that*
It was a PAINFUL teary process letting go of Mr.”Hot Mess” lol, but it’s gotten soooo much better.
*Never thought I’d be able to say that lol*
I’m FINALLY dating again & enjoying myself & not obsessing over ever little interaction :-). Thanks Natalie
This post was perfect for me so thanks Nat!! I had been having a relationship with an EUM (married) for 6 years. After an event which made me feel pretty bad, I told him that it wasn’t fair that he had a public and private life, while my life revolved around him so I hooked up with another guy. My EUM went to pieces, told me to end it and that he didn’t realise how much he loved me (madly apparently). He spent three months telling me he’d leave his wife and when he got back from a two week family holiday, he told me he was going to do it. He held my hand and said ‘I want to spend the rest of my life with you.’ I encouraged him to go to counselling and make sure that that was what he wanted – I wanted him to leave because he wanted to leave – not because he had a better offer. Anyway, after we met up, he went home and told his wife it was over. Then he stayed in the spare room and next morning told me it was over with me. Then he met me that day, went home and told his kids it was over between him and his wife. He then drove to my house to break off with me (again). I was a mess. He stayed that night at his Mums house and I asked him to see me again but he didn’t – just left a letter in my mailbox about how he wanted to work things out at home.
He said if I try to contact him he will show his wife so I can’t even say goodbye. Also, he is still lying to her and saying we were together for 2 years which is not the case.
I feel used and stupid – I never asked for a committment and it feels like he had to lead me to the top of the mountain before dashing my dreams at the bottom. I don’t understand this at all and am really struggling to let it go. We were very close over that time – staying together one night a week and he worked for me for 5 years too (not any more).
Any words of advice would be really appreciated – I feel I have nothing left, am getting older and have nothing to offer and that he gets away scott free while I suffer on my own 🙁
Miss Mopey
Don’t know if it will make you feel better or worse but this is a common OW story. Good because it’s not just you. Bad because … the situation is not special or unusual. Yes men do leave wives and wives leave husbands for other people, but it happens quickly (exhibit A: Brad Pitt). Once it’s dragged on for x months/years (I hesitate to put an exact no. on it but six years is a long time), it’s not happening.
Oh, by the way, I did have a MM leave his wife after a few months. He dumped me for another woman.
If he can’t commit to his wife, if he can’t commit to being faithful to her, if he can’t commit to leaving her and if he can’t commit to seeing you more than once a week, if he can’t commit to being with you now after his wife has found out, there is no reason to think he’s suddenly going to make a decision and give you clarity. Give yourself clarity. He is not that special.
And you did want commitment even if you didn’t ask for it. Nothing wrong with wanting commitment but trying to get it from someone who is married (with kids) is very long odds indeed. You know that now, so it’s not all lost.
Thanks Grace – that’s all true. I just don’t understand why he had to hurt everybody – he could have let me go and no-one would have been any the wiser. And I was happy with no commitment (up until recently) as I had come out of an abusive relationship – so this MM was a ‘safe’ option while I got myself back together again. There was no need for the melodramatic exit where everyone was hurt and upset.
Hi Miss Mopey,
My 2 years as a OW sounds a lot like your 6 years and our stories sound a lot like the other OW’s who post here and elsewhere. Like you, I thought the exMM was a ‘safe option’ because I was totally EU. It has been very difficult to switch off my feelings. I had my dignity on a dimmer switch and it just couldn’t any dimmer. Like you, there was a melodramatic ending (his wife put a tail on him just like the TV show Cheaters). Our never-ending love ended while he went to counseling with his wife and went on his merry way. Sorry you went through such trauma/drama. He’s in, he’s out, back with his wife, staying with his mum, back with you, back with his wife. That’s one confused guy.
My only advice would be to read everything Nat has written. Her insights are brilliant, particularly with regards to OW’s. Once there was a tiny ray dignity, I had to take some time to address why I got involved with a MM in the first place. Scary stuff for me.
We are all getting older (a very common theme after a break-up). My 23 yro daughter just went through a traumatic experience with her bf that ended in a break-up and she said the same thing. She is getting older and has nothing left to offer. I refrained from screaming you are twentyflippingthree for goodness sake. I don’t think it matters what our chronological age is, it does feel as though there is nothing left, nothing to offer. I felt it too, still do sometimes. I felt used and totally stupid. I’m 53 and in two years could move into senior housing! Hang in there Miss M. Natalie was a former OW and is now married to a wonderful man with two gorgeous, adorable daughters and manages to be a wife, mother, and be here for all of us!
Thankyou so much for that runnergirl. It’s been a month now since that happened and there has been no contact from him, so he too is on his merry way. I have been at counselling and (when I return from holidays) will be going down the dark path of why I choose such people – I mean I knew when it started that it would end this way 🙁 I still feel empty, shallow and I cry here and there but your comments have helped a lot – as has this site and the non-judgemental people on it! Hugs
Rachelle, I had a ‘friend’ like yours. He had a girlfriend who he said he couldn’t leave. The thing carried on for 9 months, with him saying he cared about me soo much… until another (beautiful) girl came on the scene. Guess what? Yes, predictably he left his girlfriend of seven years for her and they are now together. I got a phone call to say we should just be friends, and then a couple of messages via Facebook when I tried to ask why her, not me? His response was a babble of bull about circumstances and situations and not comparing anybody and he said ‘sooner or later we’ll talk face to face’ and ‘if it hurts you to care about me, try to stop’ Now I’m picking up my dignity from the floor and trying to move on and get some self-esteem back. I don’t have any advice for you but I just want to let you know you’re not alone. be strong and have courage! xx
Cri. You have said you are going to another job in another country. So just go. Why do you feel you have to email him a confession of how much you felt for him? So what? If you don’t want to go and you want him, then stay. If you are committed to going, just go. What’s the issue? I don’t understand why so many of us have to create and blow up problems unnecessarily. It’s making up reasons to be unhappy when there needn’t be. Why would you do that? Forget him. Stop worrying about running into him in the future. You cannot control the universe. No letters or emails. They are not an adequate way to express your feelings anyway. Just go and get your life together without him.
I applied for this new job just to extricate myself from the situation. But now i find myself very sad, still not getting any closure, every day wondering what went wrong and trying to make sense of the past. did i do something wrong at some specific moment? maybe when i was in my depressive phase he thought i was not interested? these are just example questions… it’s all about closure really. i would feel so much better to hear i do not like you and never did. cause one part of him always felt like he did like me and another like he did not.
Also, being successful at my new job = meeting him. the more succesful i am, the more we’ll meet (conferences, symposiums, etc). whenever i will work on something, i will think if this is successful, i will see him there. the job i am taking is also temporary, and one possibility after this would be to return to where i am now. not that i know what i will do now. what i am trying to say is that that are still some connections (I work in a very specialized field, there are just a few places in the world where i could be employed and they are all tightly linked to each other)
so, in a way, it is about having a ‘clear’ start. otherwise i will just drag everything there, i am afraid.
Cri
What you described is the same exact thing I go through with at work AC. Seemingly wanting to connect then absolute coldness. Showed up at my house, showered me with complements about my house and buildings that I built, insisted on seeing them though it was dark, promised to help, then evaporated. Then spent nearly an hour asking how my dad was doing, my upbringing, tins of complements about how far I have come in life etc. Asked if he could come to our pre movie dinner then a period of seemingly avoidng me at all costs. Yesterdays meeting, wouldn’t even make eye contact. Effing weird. At another get together after a meeting he was flirting with a married woman right in front of his latest girlfriend. He has criticized me for taking care of my dad; he does so with his mom. He has criticized me for feeling financially trapped, yet he is too. Criticizes the awfullness of the local dating pool yet chastises me if I do the same. I too avoid all work related social things now though I catch hell from others I dont wanna be the unwanted stray dog in the corner while he flirts around. The only things that have changed is there is no physical touching, whining about how alone he is, invites to his home etc.
miskwa, the guy i talked about has never openly criticized me, but he is probably judging me and finding me at some level as not good enough.
I guess somehow this is what always happens with these guys: they are attracted by some part of us (be it personality, looks, etc), but repelled/afraid of another.
as they see something interesting in us which they want to have they keep us hooked on some level, but without giving too much back.
from what you say the guy in question might be a player as he is flirting around with more people. maybe seeing him in action makes it easier for you to detach?
Dear Cri — this person blows hot and cold for his own reasons. You aren’t good enough for him? I think it’s the other way around.
I was hung up for too long on a person much like the one you describe. It never got resolved and never went anywhere, so I went NC. Who knows why people behave like this, and who cares? All you need to know is it’s not how you want to be treated.
Also, just a word of warning. Men who want to get you alone at conferences but who won’t give you the time of day in your regular work setting are never anything but trouble. Attractive trouble, maybe, but trouble.
This is the first comment I have ever written anywhere outside of Facebook, so forgive me for its length. I must confess to dismissing those testimonials on websites and blogs which claim their lives have been revolutionized in some way by the author. But now I find myself in that same position. After just 2 days of reading Natalie’s posts– I basically put all my work on hold and crammed in dozens– I feel liberated from all this pain I had been carrying around for the past 4 years. I now have the answer to why I was stuck on hurt and not moving on all these years: what I had mistook for my undying love and an unbreakable connection that could only be explained by some para-psychological phenomenon, was just an inability to process the pain and grieve. After 4 years of denial it has finally dawned upon me that he left me not because he couldn’t handle his love for me but because he simply didn’t love me any more and didn’t want to be with me.
Gone were the psychological excuses I used to invoke to reassure myself that he did indeed still love me but couldn’t see past his diagnosed depression and Narcissistic Personality Disorder. And I could no longer convince myself that he had pushed me away because our relationship was a dead-end given that he was forced to emigrate to another continent where he was deeply unhappy. He returned home a few months ago and still didn’t want to be with me; only worse, he no longer wanted to communicate with me once he resettled here.
Of course this realization was also facilitated by his recent behaviour –blocking me from all social media and cutting me out of his life completely in response to my emotional messages. I had been humiliating myself for years and at times he had given me hope; other times not, but it was mostly me who initiated the contact so I have no one but myself to blame. I don’t know if he qualifies as an ass-clown or someone who simply left me, but either way, his emotional inconsistency which culminated in extreme unkindness broke me.
After a spiritually enlightening dream a week ago, I suddenly realized it was long over between us and I panicked at the sudden surge of grief that hit me, not knowing what to do with it. That is when I came across this godsend of a blog and noted how I shared so many psychological and emotional commonalities with other readers, most notably the “I can’t believe they don’t want me syndrome”. My inability to accept how a loser like him could reject someone like me (reinforced by a question he once asked after he left: how someone like me could STILL love someone like him) kept me in futile pursuit of “rejection retraction”. 4 years of numerous No Contact attempts that even lasted 9 whole months at one point before I gave in and contacted him. 4 years of throwing my dignity down the toilet because our “unique” connection transcended things like self-respect and pride.
Now it has come back to hit me hard. The pain has greatly subsided but I am now left with overwhelming feelings of shame, self-disgust and humiliation and anger for allowing myself to stoop so low, to be that kind of woman I usually pity. And what kills me the most is imagining how HE must perceive me as this pathetic woman, attractive, successful, loved by all yet obviously so disturbed psychologically that she kept pursuing a man who clearly no longer wanted to be with her. How can I stop caring what he thinks of me and how he views me and viewed me all along? How do I stop hating myself? How do I process this shame? I know it’s never too late to get one’s dignity back but after 4 years, my complete disgust for this man seems too little too late.
Pumpkin Pie, if he is a diagnosed narc then you have your “evidence” He is the one who is mentally ill. People who have had “relationships” with narcs are often said to have a form of post traumatic stress disorder as the experience is such a total mind fuck. You refer to his emotions but you must understand he doesn’t have any. He has learned to copy certain behaviours in “normals” and replicates them in order to get the attention he so desperately needs. Anyway, anough of him, what about you? Stop beating yourself up over this. It is NOT Too late. You even said yourself you are attractive, successful and loved by all. You have escaped this monster and you have a wonerful life to live now, free of his oppression and games. He has nothing and he knows it. Stay with the site and keep reading. THe site has indeed been a life saver for me after my experience with an ex with NPD that has left me a shaking shell of my former self, when I was a real kick ass before. I am slowly getting myself back and you will too. First step is to understand. Second is to forgive yourself.
Pumpkinpie
Your post brought tears to my eyes. I wish I had answers to your questions.
I also abased myself repeatedly to someone who clearly didn’t care about me.
I wish I could say he disgusts me but even now he doesn’t, although I do get occasional jolts of anger when I think about him.
There is no answer, except that we are all human, and look for love sometimes in the wrong places.
I treated my first boyfriend abominably But he stuck around and continued to love me; ultimately I left him. He is in many ways a better person than I. In somany ways we were perfect together, and yet somehow we weren’t. I dont actually think he was a fool, or look down on him at all. I regret how I behaved, and I can see and admire his great qualities. In a strange way I do actually believe he was too good for me. I doubt very much if your ex looks down on you either. There is no answer. It just is what it is. Try to accept it and
stop feeling so ashamed.
Pumpkin Pie, First, I totally understand what you are feeling. Your ex is a diagnosed Narcissist. Victorious is correct. This is a bona fide personality disorder. There is no cure.
That said, YOU are NOT THE PROBLEM You are more than good enough, he is the one who isn’t Narcissists are attracted to people who are or have what they don’t. They then become so jealous, they destroy the very thing they are attracted to and lack themselves because they know they can’t be/have that with they covet. Every nasty, abusive thing he’s said or done to you is projection. It’s how he feels about himself. However, they can’t admit that so they project it onto someone else to relieve their anxiety, feelings of shame, etc. Do some research. It’ll make a lot of sense.
There is nothing wrong with you. Victorious is correct, their victims are very prone to post traumatic stress disorder. They are true masters of manipulation. I know, my father is a narcissist and I had no idea that the crap I got from him wasn’t normal until I was 40 years old. It’s insidious, the way they turn your mind inside out, are loving one moment, complete nightmares the next. This is ALL ABOUT HIM and HIS mental problems. I highly recommend talking to a professional to help sort this all out. It is mind fucking as an art form with these people and it can really mess you up until you understand the truly twisted dynamic. Hang in there.
Cri
Our boy is indeed a playa. Didn’t know this till later (why in hell don’t we womyn compare notes?)and He’s a very good playa, is gorgeous and intelligent where other men anywhere near here are NOT. Sick of being totally alone, tired of being told to “settle” for unattractive problem men, older women friends have left, no functional family. At age 52, dont wanna be financially ruined by leaving, nor do I feel like financially abandoning my dying father nor my animals. In a normal place, with options, getting over him would be easy. Again, he’s left a loong trail of wreckage behind him. Now he will destroy a friend. Wish I’d have known that three years ago. I don’t get the weird stuff criticizing me for the very same things he does. Maybe just needing to turn the knife into the wound a few more times? Cri, him in action was witnessed not by me but someone far above us in the college heirarchy. I no longer subject myself to any social situations where he might be. Life is waaay too short to play the part of unwanted, humiliated dog. It’s not as though I can flirt with someone else there as our other colleagues are not very attractive and I will not use someone to get even. Just wish he’d get it and go away.
haven’t been following your posts, so i don’t know what this guy has done to destroy someone else, as you mention above, however, based on what you have written here, and recently, this guy is a man of low morals & incredible selfishness. that’s how guys who leave wreckage behind are. karma will take care of him, at least a little bit. especially as you all live where everyone knows everyone else.
nc nc nc nc.
& don’t talk about him, at all, with anyone else. it is indeed sick that some people out there like to stir the pot & thus allow him to have info. that he otherwise shouldn’t have and/or be REWARDED for his behavior.
but that’s human nature.
& these guys are used to how life is not fair–they learn, early on, that they are “hot” or whatever, so they don’t NEED empathy &, the way they see it, they don’t “have to” feel guilty of society favors them or helps them out.
it’s great when you see them, later on in life, (“stuck”) with daughters of their own!
“You’ve got to know the line and you’ve got to know when to fold.” So true! And you’ve got to learn to let go.
I’ve left two marriages and two relationships post marriages, and I’ve never looked back. No regrets. Absolutely.
Each loss of relationship was insanely painful. I’ve grieved intensely, but I knew it was time to fold, and to let go. I’ve learned to be strong and to have faith that I will pull through and survive.
In each relationship, I had loved passionately and given my all. Each time they ended, I thought I’d learn my lesson. But some lessons I needed to learn again. I was twice, the Other Woman. It’s absolutely pathetic. Waiting in the sidelines of their lives for crumbs of their time? And communication blackouts whenever they are with their families? What was I thinking? I had no self-respect for allowing myself to be treated that way. No more. I’ve moved on and have a gorgeous life now.
Someone once wrote, “There are things we don’t want to happen, but have to accept.
Things we don’t want to know, but have to learn.
And people we can’t live without, but have to let go.”
Be strong.
I can so identify with all that has been written. Sometimes even though you know you should “fold them” you don’t. There comes a time when the returns lessen for the effort put in. I realize I don’t let go until, there is no longer a payback,whatever that is. Companionship, sex, not wanting to be alone. For me, it was believing the words, and not believing the actions, that were so telling. I heard all the words, I wanted to hear, and early in the relationship, they were congruent with his actions. But it slowly started to change. Narcissistic, borderline personality, someone who cheated, and when caught, had plausible excuses. What I forgot, was how I felt about it all. A lesson I learned from my mother. The last straw happened. This weekend, one of my dogs, got ill and died very suddenly. The vet said it was from something she ate, and felt it was from the fatty bone, he had given her. an acute pancreatitis, that took her life. I had just got off the phone with the vet, making the decision to put her down, because she had taken a turn for the worse, and her systems were shutting down. I got a cold, cold, chill and put a robe on. The AC got angry that I didn’t come back to bed and cuddle with him, and told me I had to leave. I was in shock. I just got done making a decision to put my dear pet down, I was sick inside, and in shock because this happened all in 12 hours. And he is worried about himself!!!! This was the final straw. I have blocked him, on my text, my cell, my email. I have spent a year, making excuses for his continued contact with his ex-wife, for his name calling, for his verbal abuse, his disappearing acts, etc, etc, etc. No more. I will continue to read all the posts, everyone’s responses, to keep my committment to No Contact.
Typical narc. Your dog died but it is still all about him. Keep strong wit the NC. It is so hard but if it helps you at all, I fell off the wagon and I PAID. Now I am ignoring his contact as I have to accept I am addicted to this man and it is not safe for me to be around him. All the whys and wherefores cannot cancel out that basic truth. It is a huge loss to me but I have to toughen up and get on with my life without him. Because if I go back again I do not know how I will keep finding the strength to recover. Again. Rinse and repeat. Getting weaker and weaker instead of getting stronger and stronger through NC.
Thanks for the reply. I have given in, several times. And it has gotten worse and worse and I began to wonder about myself, what it was going to take. He would hit the reset button, over and over. He has two warrants out for his arrest, because months ago I called the police because started to scream at me out in public, while walking with my dogs. He continued to scream while I was driving and I stopped and said if you don’t get stop, you need toget out. I can’t drive this way. He grabbed my keys and took off with them. Leaving me stranded on a mountain path with my dogs in the car. Once the police came they did get him on the phone to come back with my keys. He ended up being smart with the cops, and he ended up with two charges against him. They told me to lose him. He was a bully and abusive, and they were afraid for my safety. He is unstable. He will be fine one minute and the next go ballistic over a simple conversation. That is the narcissist. I was not able to have a thought, opinion, anything that was different from his. If I did, I was told I was starting an arguement. I would look at him like he came from a different planet. Because I could talk to other people and we’d have a nice conversation. I realized he was so into power and control. I was being brainwashed. This wasn’t love to me. I realize for me, it was to get him to validate me. That was my part in it, my addiction. I realize that I was just a toy for him. He will find another, if he hasn’t already. I’m doing some soul searching, and not rushing into another relationship, not dating. Grieving my loss of my pet. My other dog is grieving too.
Emeraldeyez, his lack of empathy about your poor little dog is showing a clear lack of support and caring for you as is the verbal abuse and disappearing acts. I would be heartbroken if something like that happened to my dog. She has been an amazing companion during my own recovery from emotional neglect (dare I say abuse). Lack of empathy is a clear red flag and if I ever come across it again I will run like the wind. Keep going with NC you deserve so much more. Sending you lots of support and encouragement and I’m so sorry about your dog.
Omg. I want to start by really thanking you. I recently went through a break up and the result was a broken heart and a baby. I have been looking for articles that would help me ease my grief and havent been lucky until now. Your articles are real, very insigthful, and help you to see things that were always there in a brighter light. Thank you thank you and thank you.