Going through a breakup is one of those experiences that hits you hard emotionally and leaves you feeling restless and left to fill white space where you used to have this relationship. You experience a myriad of emotions and sometimes, you feel guilty or even blame you for why the relationship ended and so it can seem all the more like a big fat kick in the teeth to discover that there was an ‘overlap’ and that your ex had in fact already started seeing someone else before the breakup.
You’re grieving the the breakup and even missing them; they’re already on a new ‘adventure’ with someone else.
You feel replaced and that hurts. You also feel bloody well duped if you were having discussions with them during their overlapping. It makes you wonder what was real and what was fake.
It’s painful and unfortunate but sometimes we do meet our next partner before our current relationship has ended. It doesn’t necessarily mean that something happens but yes, sometimes our heads get turned, we feel deeply attracted to someone and we know that we cannot continue as is. Some people know that their feelings have changed without having any physical overlap. Some people start something else and then have to find a “good moment to break bad news”. Let’s be real: some people use knowledge of a possible imminent breakup to be ‘open’ to new possibilities.
Many people have experienced at least one emotional overlapping at some point and a lot more people than would probably admit it have started something new before they’ve ended their relationship. It’s not habitual and it’s for a short period of time and it’s likely regretted.
Overlapping happens towards the end of a relationship that isn’t working, even if at least one of you is still fighting for the survival of it. If the possibility of breaking up hasn’t been discussed, at least one of you is thinking about it. The overlapper may justify their actions by claiming that the relationship was “practically over” or claiming that they told you they needed space.
Habitual or even serial overlappers are always lining up their next option so it’s ready to use when needed.
- They reopen negotiations with their ex behind your back.
- They’ve got someone at work / the gym / club that they flirt with.
- They’ve got someone at work who they’ve started confiding their problems (real or imagined) or they’ve become a shoulder to cry on for that person and forged a connection.
- They’ve got someone mooning over them and being ‘indispensable’. The woman who overlapped one of my friends took over her old job, then played supportive friend to her then boyfriend, and then started seeing him a few weeks before his relationship with my friend ended.
- They’re already strolling down memory lane on Facebook with someone from school / uni.
Habitual overlappers don’t like to leave a relationship until they’ve got another one to go to. The people they move on to are bridges – providing an excuse and an exit out of their current relationship. Or, emotional airbags providing a soft landing.
Many people don’t know how to break up. It’s like it can’t be because they don’t feel the same way anymore or about incompatibility; the other party practically has to be a serial killer before they’ll leave. Or it’s the ‘ole “Well they’re not beating/cheating..” When they can’t ‘villainise’ the person and in fact, this person is even trying to people please the hell out of them or fighting hard for the relationship, overlapping becomes their go-to exit strategy because they can either claim guilt and finally have a ‘legitimate’ reason to exit or the other person will be putting the pressure on for them to move on. Job done.
Let’s be real, some people don’t do ‘being alone’ very well. I actually know a few people who’ve never had a clean break between relationships. They think that they’re serial monogamists but they’re more like serial feelings avoiders.
Some people need to have their ego stroked elsewhere when they experience relationship problems. It gives them reassurance because getting attention and possibly the offer of another relationship from someone else ‘must’ mean that the problem isn’t theirs.
Overlappers, don’t gain any insights from their relationships. Instead they just ‘transfer’ and assume that new surroundings and a clean slate means problem solved, as if to suggest that they had no contribution and have nothing to learn.
It’s also safe to say that sometimes the people that they overlap you with have no clue. When they’re caught, no doubt it’ll be “Oh we were pretty much over by then!” or “Baby, I was afraid I’d lose you [so I lied to you]…”
Let us not forget that regardless of what state your relationship was in, ‘overlapping’ is cheating. Whoever they overlapped with may feel flattered now and be enjoying the honeymoon glow but they don’t realise that your average overlapper and cheater is demonstrating that when faced with problems and conflict, they don’t do problem solving. Eventually they may find themselves being overlapped too.
If you’re with an overlapper, ask about their breakups. If they’re habitual, you won’t be the only one although bear in mind that they may try to fudge the numbers…
I remember when an ex sobbed about how devastated he was as he ironed the hell out of his cricket trousers just a little over a week after our breakup. A week later I was at our old flat collecting stuff and listened to the voicemails most of which were for me except one from 5am the week before. “Hi….it’s me…. Just to let you know I’ve landed…I’ll try you on your mobile”. I felt like a mug especially because I’d felt guilty and thought we were both struggling with the breakup. Of course he denied it. One year to the day after our breakup, a friend bumps into him with a woman who tells her that she’s celebrating their one year anniversary.
Being overlapped can you leave you feeling ‘replaced’, discarded, rejected. It’s like “Can’t you wait until the frickin’ bed is cold / I’ve got my stuff out of your place / we’ve been broken up for a month?” But they can’t.
Overlappers don’t do facing feelings, thoughts, or even their conscience. It hurts like hell as it jumps right into your grief and forces you out of denial and even short-circuits bargaining because it removes hope. It’s easy to feel like it “must” be you if they’ve moved on but actually, them moving on doesn’t mean that the relationship issues were your fault and it doesn’t mean that they don’t care, but they have buried their feelings and thoughts and gone on the rebound.
They’re just not that special that any issues in their relationships are the fault of all of their exes or that they’re emotionally Teflon coated.
You just want a little respect. You want what you had to mean something but the fact that they’ve moved on doesn’t mean that your relationship is and was meaningless; they just don’t want to face anything and they want a fresh start as soon as possible. It doesn’t mean that the person is better than you. It may mean that they’re ‘there’. Your ex will be processing (probably avoiding it) in a relationship whereas you’ll be going it alone.
Their new relationship may or may not work out and if it does, again it’s not about you but more that they’re still the same person but have found someone who their values and characteristics (even if they’re dodgy) click with (or the person will ignore issues). Ultimately don’t lose sight of why your relationship wasn’t working as it’s all too easy to forget the reasons and make this new person and this idea of you being ‘rejectionable’ the reason. All that’s going to do is ensure that even though you haven’t moved on, that you don’t learn anything new either.
Your thoughts?
About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1082 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
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@Lawrence. I understand what you’re saying. Wanting to believe in the ‘good’, and believing that ‘assclowns’ even understand what humanity is. It’s a nice thought.
The thing is… I’ll start w the extreme examples and work my way down to ‘assclowns’.
In extreme and unfortunate circumstances, pedophiles, murderers, physical abusers (includes mental/emotional… Just as bad), I don’t believe a shred of humanity has ever existed with these “monsters”. Or ever will.
Let’s bring it down a few notches… Assclowns, EUM’s, narcissists… Pathological liars, Sociopaths… Are not thinking of other peoples best interests or ‘humanity’. There’s a buffet of bad character flaws going on w these kind of people. They don’t think about wanting to be ‘good’ for humanity and decide one day to be a volunteer for the Red Cross or something, lol.
They think about themselves. They lie, manipulate, and use other people to get what they need/want from others until they feel ‘better’ about themselves… Then when their not getting their ‘fill’ anymore, they move on to the next.
We all make mistakes… People who care about humanity and are good people, make mistakes, have regrets and try to turn things around, learn from those mistakes… So we can live with integrity and be authentic, not just for us, but for those around us. That’s humanity.
Assclowns will use, and hurt those they know who care about them, some are predators/opportunists… That take advantage of vulnerable women w low self esteem. They ‘play’. And they do it (they do it well, btw… They know how to play a good game) over and over again… And have no problem doing it to others
at the same time.
There’s no chance for humanity where there’s complete selfishness.
Believing these ‘types’ are empathetic towards humanity and really want to be ‘good’, is a lie every fallback girl tells herself. It’s what keeps the door open to them instead of slamming it shut.
Not every person is ‘good’, or cares about how ‘inhumane’ their behaviors are towards people that do care for them.
Sad, but true.
There is a very good book about these points called People of the Lie by Scott Peck. It tackles the concept of evil and shows that some people´s actions are genuinely bad, it´s not the result of a misunderstanding/bad childhood experiences/whatever. I found it really interesting because this is something psychology doesn´t adress, nowadays it seems there is a reasonable explanation for any behaviour that is damaging towards others or ourselves. There is the underlying belief that all “badness” is the result of some disease, perhaps it´s less threatening to see things from that point of view.
After reading that book I´ve come to think that the best thing to do when faced with badness (which the author links to lying, in different aspects) is to just get away asap.
Lilia, I read that book, too, and I heartily agree with you…
Demke,
This is so true. I write about psychopaths and provide survivor support to those who have been so victimized.
While all survivors are at a deficit when getting into these relationships with psychopath,sociopaths, narcissists (whatever label is comfie for you, but they’re all the same in fatal character flaws), many of the survivors who didn’t come from unhealthy backgrounds, were under the illusion that ALL ARE GOOD. They simply cannot imagine that all are NOT good. This is foundational for many survivors, because society and religious backgrounds perpetuate the notion that there is good in everyone. Psychopaths get away with what they do because she is unable to see him for what he is. She sees him through HER perceptions ONLY. This idea that all are good, in my opinion, is the hardest to overcome and in which to act on in getting out of the relationship.
What is so frustrating for me is that psychopaths KNOW this. They know she is easily duped into believing that somehow there is good in him and that he is incapable of the atrocities that he commits and the harm he causes.
When we have empathy and we believe all are good, it is so hard to convince a survivor that what the psychopath is doing to her is nothing less than evil and without conscience. Her empathy is so high, she can’t see the forest for the trees.
Sometimes, that naivete is the only thing that keeps her victimized, yet in my experience, is the hardest belief system to break.
K, I agree with you…
This stuff happens to men too. Women can be wolves in sheep’s clothing as well….
Well said, Demke, well said….
Natalie: Thank you!
I’m sorry but I have to disagree. CHEATING IS CHEATING.
Abusive (physical & emotional) is a justification and does not absolve you of this vile behavior. Where does the the justification on cheating stop? Don’t men who have cheated have similar justifications?
I was in a emotional abusive marriage for 15 years and I never once cheated even when I had a chance.
My values include not cheating. But then I hold myself to standards that I expect from others.
Confused
Yep, my ex pushed me down the stairs, landed me in hospital twice, the injury will dog me for life, as will the scars, he choked me until I passed out. Because I cheated on him, he will forever hold himself out as the “good guy” if he ever thinks about our relationship at all. That pissed me off for ages but I’m over it now (mostly).
And my next boyfriend hurt me even more!
I wouldn’t cheat again. Yes, it’s wrong but, also, from a purely selfish viewpoint it’s not even worth it!
Grace: I’m sorry you went through that. From someone who went through abusive, I related and understand how difficult it is. My issue is that I don’t like the justification of cheating with the “I had no other option but to cheat to get out” excuse.
There ARE other ways. Friends, family, the law, shelters, etc.
The justification cheater makers are unbelievable (this unfortunately includes women). I find the whole act of cheating vile.
Cheating damages everyone. The person cheating the most and it destroys the person cheated on. (I have first hand experience here). You self esteem plummets and soul dies a little.
Anyway, I”ve been reading the post and so glad you are happy with your boyF. You deserve to be happy.
Cheating,
I understand how you feel, I really do. When it comes down to DYNAMICS though, particularly in an abusive relationship, “cheating” is just surface dirt. There is no nobility in living with a manipulative, “cheating” liar. Adultery is not the only sin an abuser commits. There are red flags missed when marrying someone like this a whole lot of overlooking very BAD behaivor prior to a revelation or discovery of cheating out of an abuser.
Being married to an abuser doesn’t absolve anyone of anything either.
Having been married to a lying, cheating, manipulative psychopath is not exactly a source of pride for me. Nor is it an excuse for the nonsense I put up with and the pain caused to others in my DENIAL.
Just sayin….
K
Agreed. Nat does blow the overlappers behaviour out of the water but we take responsibility too. Not by blaming ourselves for being over lapped or others for overlapping or comparing ourselves to others. We take responsibility for our own lives and behaviour, and looking down on others does not help us do that. It,s a distraction.
As for sin, let him who is without cast the first stone. All the woman,s accusers left, one by one starting with the oldest. If you,re older maybe you,re more aware of how you,ve fallen short. Or you,ve just had more time for screw ups! God forgives me and if he forgave my ex i would be happy(ish). What a man or a woman thinks of me is not even on the scale compared to that.
Of course it,s taken me a long time to get here and i understand the transitional and necessary period of anger, unforgivenesss, pain but it,s not the plan to stay in that place.
within six months my ex met his beautiful future wife. i can,t even tell myself that karma wins out and they get theirs. Maybe they won,t. And that,s okay. It,s only my own standing before God I need be concerned about.
It has nothing to do with “casting the first stone…”. I has to do with the reality that you must see before your eyes and calling it for what it is. Simple.
I’m offering my recent personal experiences with overlapping to present another side to it. Hope it helps with keeping things in perspective.
I’ve never overlapped until this year. It was not intentional, not something I was seeking but I think it actually did more good than harm. I was at the end of my rope in more ways than one with my then EUM/AC. I had tried breaking up before but he had a smooth way of saying enough to keep me in the “justifying, minimalising, denying” zone. Mind you, that before him I had not been w/ anyone for 4 years — 2 of which were by choice in terms of healing and the other 2 because I simply went on bad first dates w/out bothering going on a second. I think the reason I was so vulnerable and willing to put up with his crumbs was my loneliness.
I also had started to believe that ALL men behaved in varying degrees like this EUM/AC. So I’d add “normalizing” to the above three denials. Ironically, the EUM/AC pulled yet another stunt that made me question my future happiness with someone as inconsiderate as him. I went out with a friend later that night and we wound up meeting some of her friends for a late-night dinner.
One of their friends was a gorgeous, single, Frenchman! He was charming, attentive, considerate, fun and debonair. I hadn’t technically ended it with the EUM-troll yet, so I was very guarded but flattered all to pieces by his interest. I practically burst into tears when I said I’d like an espresso and he jumped from the table and brought it to me. My current EUM would never do anything remotely thoughtful like that.
Meeting this man right at that pivotal time was a godsend and gave me the opportunity to compare. I suddenly saw that a man could be polite, generous and even romantic by pulling the chair out for me, walking on the right side of the road and taking special care by putting a good foot forward. I hadn’t experienced that in so long I thought such niceties didn’t exist anymore.
I didn’t feel right about giving him my number but I didn’t feel entirely wrong either. I’m extremely loyal (to a fault) and I had just earlier that day been reconsidering my relationship when I had this example of something else presented to me.
I tried to end it with the EUM. I even told him about the Frenchman and how he treated me well. How it made me feel as a woman and a person. How his lack of care pissed me off because it made me vulnerable to do something with someone else. I felt set up by his lack of actions to be swept away when providence intervened. That made me mad!
EUM/AC was warned. He said enough for me to warily give him another chance. I should have booked. We continued on life support for another couple of weeks until he pulled another craptastic stunt in front of his son. In all that time the Frenchman pursued me but I did not return his interest. I stayed the course until I finally had enough!
I ended it with EUM/AC on the 4th of July. Happy Independence Day to me! A couple of days later the Frenchman contacted me (not knowing about the split) and asked me out yet again. I accepted.
I felt weird and awkward. I’ve never gone literally right from one to the other like that before but I have to say it was the best thing that happened to me. The Frenchman was like a breath of fresh air. He was lovely and dear.
We went on a few dates and they were so counter to everything I had experienced with the EUM/AC that I think it did wonders for my self-esteem. Ultimately, we just didn’t “connect.” Probably because I wasn’t truly ready but it came down to lifestyle choices — he was a party animal and I’m not and never will be. He also wanted arm candy. He wasn’t mean or selfish like the EUM. He just wasn’t the right fit. I was bummed but I felt validated and then Frenchie went to Australia for a trip…and I overlapped AGAIN!
Met a guy of all places in jury duty. We were in the same room, got to chatting and discovered we were neighbors, worked in the same industry and had crossed paths peripherally. By the end of the day we exchanged numbers. Frenchie was in the land down under and I was soon having coffee with a fellow juror. We dated until it became clear all he was willing to offer was a booty call…got to say he was great in the sack (yet another quality EUM lacked) and worth a few rounds but after a couple of months I lost interest. I wasn’t devastated just let down and adrift.
Frenchie came back but I never saw him again. I was rebounding in a way I hadn’t before and while it spun me around in some positive ways, I also was still dealing with the emotional aftermath of the EUM. I never promised anything or became exclusive with these men. I simply dated.
After these blokes I took some time off, found Natalie’s site and altered my perception and worked on healing without distraction. After reading this article, I have to say I’m guilty of “overlapping.” I did it. For me, it was a save. I think I would’ve been vulnerable to the EUM/AC right when I was so distracted by the Frenchman followed by the juror. By the time I was done w/ both of them, I knew I still had work to do (even more so) but I also had a yardstick of something else to go by too which helped enormously. I was disappointed by both men but for different reasons. That didn’t help totally either so it’s a bit of a draw. I had more stuff to work on.
I did not purposely seek to overlap. I was close to done w/ the EUM and I think the universe gave me a little nudge. It presented options I didn’t even think I had. I was acutely aware of rebounding so it wasn’t like I wanted to jump start into another relationship, but knowing that I could be treated far, far better restored my confidence. It was a blessing that dovetailed with finding Natalie.
I think there are those who can’t be alone and they set up backdoor people as options. That’s a serial overlapper. Then there are those who by turns of fate find themselves meeting someone at an opportune moment that gives them clarity. I seriously doubt the longevity of these relationships when they do happen, but I suppose anything is possible. I wasn’t in the head space of “replacing” my EUM by any means. I explored the opportunities presented to me and this only after I finally pulled the life support plug of the so-called “relationship.”
I don’t feel bad about what I did. It was not with any intent that I met 2 men straight away. They were oddly enough my “emotional air bags” although I did not abuse this and they were unaware of their role. They had fun, no harm, no foul. No one got hurt or led on.
Strangely enough, I had the opportunity to overlap after the juror with yet another guy. Because of Natalie’s wisdom however I was able to spot amber then code red flags of Future Faking and other undesirable traits before getting involved physically or emotionally. After I stopped returning his calls and went NC…I met yet ANOTHER guy while hiding behind a bush in the dark to sneak a smoke on museum grounds. Seriously, it was like the song “It’s Raining Men.” Again, thanks to Natalie, I dodged a potential bullet as he made it clear on our first date that any relationship with him would be “strictly on his terms.” I smiled, nodded and jogged. Went NC.
Now as some of you know, I’ve been depressed through all of this too because I feel like damn…the quantity is overflowing after not meeting anyone for years (and my lifestyle has not significantly changed) but the quality is lacking.
I made a list of the qualities I want, deal breakers, and made a conscious decision to go it alone for a while. I told myself if I meet someone with said qualities I’m looking for, I’ll slowly “discover” them but I probably won’t for a long time…and that’s okay. I ain’t looking…frankly, I’m a tied and spun out to even bother.
Natalie has cleared my head, shielded my heart and many ladies on here such as Grizelda make me feel supported and safe to express my thoughts. I won’t say I’m bustin’ w/ happiness but I’ve been improving each and everyday. Life’s been good.
Then my car got towed. I didn’t even know what to do as I’ve never had a car impounded before. There I am looking my worst with oily hair, a sweatshirt, a recently popped zit and no $$ (again, in the dark) sitting on the curb in shock.
A man who happens to be friends with one of my neighbors comes up to his truck and sees me there shaking like a leaf. I told him what happened and he immediately made phone calls, took control of the situation and offered to help me out. Just because. Both men went to DMV the next day, got my car out of impound, and even refused to let me buy them lunch! This friend of my neighbor’s put his money into fixing up my car (which I’m selling) and told me not to worry.
Granted, this is a crazy “white-knight” situation to which I’m being very cautious. Still, this man who I’ve been thrust with spending a couple of days with in dealing with my car has not shown one damn red flag yet. Not even a freakin’ amber. He’s kind, thoughtful, asks questions, takes charge when necessary but is not overly aggressive, laughs without restraint, has a solid career, is not pretentious and has taken me out to two dinners and drinks. He isn’t a grab-asser, he’s attracted to me but has respected my wishes not to rush into anything physical just yet (recent article Natalie wrote helped me enormously w/ this sex first — discover later issue). He’s attractive, no dependents, was married in his youth, divorced for several years and would do it again with the right woman. I’m looking for flags. I haven’t found any yet but it’s all new so I’m enjoying the discovery phase right now. I’m moving slowly and letting him unfold. Am I in shock? Yes. Am I doubtful? Yes. Am I willing to give a man who hasn’t given me a reason to jog a chance? Yes.
And I have Natalie to thank because I think she’s responsible for fixing my compass and giving me the strength I need to be braver, wiser and recognize both the good that maybe is really out there and the bad which definitely is abundant.
I apologize for the length of this. If any of you ladies find yourself in a similar situation where a good guy pops up when you’re time-wasting with a bad one…I’m not recommending cheating but I have to say be open, honest and if there’s an overlap, take care of yourself and take a little leap.
Today, in America, it’s Thanksgiving. I just want to say many thanks to Natalie and all of you. If you took the time to read this, I thank you for that too. Have a wonderful Thursday in the UK and elsewhere. All my love and support!!
Ha! How fab
I know that a few days in is too early to say that I hope it works out but… I hope that he at least restores your faith in the elusive Good Man! And if not, the fact that you’ve had a couple of flag-free days at least indicates that there are some Better-Than-Appalling men out there, I suppose.
Fwiw, and whilst I’m sure that the quantity-over-quality issue is disheartening, I think that you’re in a much stronger position when you CAN meet a string of men and keep on flushing until someone nice comes along. I don’t meet anyone atm (circumstances dictate) and whilst I’m okay with that, it does mean that there’s a lot more hanging on any man that DOES pop up – I desperately want him to be half-decent just because he’s likely to be the last for a while. And I think that I run the risk of distorting my perception.
I suppose it’s just a probability thing – the more men you meet the more likely you are to find a good egg.
Anyway
Anyway…?
Nope, no idea why that popped in!
It is too early to know what’s what but I’m keeping my focus on the “discovery phase.” Looking back, I think I had a tendency to ignore obvious flags because I so much wanted the “discovery” to last a little bit longer. I had a weird way of justifying honesty in that I’d think “If they’re willing to show me their worst upfront then it’s up to me to decide if I can deal with it.”
The quantity vs. quality aspect really had and still has me down. It’s no fun to meet someone and then immediately flush…over and over until you lose hope for common decency and consideration.
I don’t think I’m ready just yet so I’m taking it slow and without expectations. The fact that he hasn’t shown any red flags is the reason I’m engaging at all. I don’t want my negativity and bad experiences to keep me from letting a possible good guy unfold. So, we’ll see. I don’t think I’d have given him a chance but for Natalie. Her advice is giving me the validation that what I want isn’t unreasonable. A string of EUM’s will leave you questioning your standards eventually. This site is invaluable.
These posts are so invaluable to me because I learn so much about myself and amazingly, it helps to clarify my boundaries and what I am willing and not willing to do now.
I’m absolutely convinced, without a shadow of one doubt, that being absolutely ALONE is the only way to a genuine recovery from painful relationships. I’m also convinced that doing this is the hardest, most challenging thing for most women to do. I see it over and over again.
If you cannot be ALONE for a very LONG established period of time and reach a point of truly knowing yourself, trusting yourself…you’ll repeat your patterns. This is so repetitive, so cyclical, I’m convinced it’s true.
It isn’t a relationship with a man that will validate you. Even a good man. It’s you that has to validate you.
I think after an assclown experience, being single at LEAST two years is wise.
Why are we obsessed with the notion that time is not on our side and that we have to have a relationship RIGHT NOW? WHY do we have to have a relationship RIGHT NOW?
What harm would it do to be without a man for a couple of years and fall in love with YOU?
More and more I’m seeing that I’m doing the absolute right thing for me in staying out of the dating pool. I want to be in a place where I’m comfortable alone, and I’d be comfortable in a relationship EVENTUALLY that was right with a good man. And if it doesn’t happen, that’s okay too.
I want to learn just to be happy being with me now.
Thank you for sharing your experiences.
MRwriter;
Girrrrl…..that doesn’t sound like ‘crickets’
Anon — Okay, you got me there. When I wrote that I had just kicked all 4 men to the curb for various reasons and was in a calm stillness (little did I know before the storm). I consciously made a decision to not date for a while (and I still think that applies).
Until this year, I’ve never experienced this much interest from a variety of men. Ever. I usually go long stretches (years) because very few men approach me. I’m sure that doesn’t help my ego or self-esteem. I’m no beauty by LA standards and it doesn’t help that most men act like they’re doing me the favor of being on my arm. The upgrade attitude is almost always on the table and I have to work really hard not to let that suck out my spirit.
I keep trying to figure out what I’m doing differently but I cannot find anything to explain this sudden in flux. I think it’s just a fluke.
I am enjoying the interest though. If I can date, discover and allow men to unfold, I think I’ll be in a better position to not accept the crumbs I was so willing to gobble up before because it felt like I was stumbling on a watering hole in the desert only to find out it was just a mirage. The couple of EUM/AC’s I dallied with were the ones between long, lonely stretches of no man even giving me a second look. So when one did seem to “see” me I was all too willing to try to make it work (against my better judgment/gut/Natalie’s “betting on the long shot”). I don’t think I realized until this spree of men how much feeling invisible had made me vulnerable and electing for crumbs.
At least I didn’t stay too long with any of these EUM/AC’s, I somehow maintained my self-esteem despite being the “Invisible Woman.” But I think it doubly hurt to go without, be offered crumbs and still walk away starving for more. A decade of that made me emotionally anorexic.
If nothing else, I feel desirable, that I do have options and if this is just a brief merry-go-ride, I need to hold on to the knowledge that a man can want me and want to do right by me. Maybe that’s the lesson in all this.
And if I hear crickets chirping again…well, at least they won’t be coming from the back alley of my old attitude of the “Last Chance Saloon.” That’s an improvement.
Well after reading this and all the comments about how common this behavior is, I’ve just gotten a terrible case of cold feet about dating again.
I love being single and drama-free. Good luck to those of you who worry day to day when your man will slip up and break your heart. I’m just not courageous enough to go there at this point in my life.
Read this, it will help you to find the courage again:
http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/ready-aim-fire-how-willing-are-you-to-stretch-yourself-in-dating-relationships-and-life/ .
Good luck!
Me too. I actually wonder if in the UK there are any men who are not mentally unsound, control freak, selfish assclowns.
S,
I don’t think it’s about “courage” to walk into a house on fire, do you?
What you’re doing, I think, IS healthy.
It’s hard because learning to be okay alone and single, being happy with you, can really feel like something is amiss somehow with you when the majority have extinguishers in hand running toward that house on fire, even when it’s nearly burned to the foundation.
You’re doing the right thing!
I find this site incredibly helpful to me in my own recovery. I’m very grateful for the support I have found here and to you, Natalie for your brilliant writing and posts.
Leaving a gift for you behind and hoping everyone here has a wonderful and Happy Thanksgiving!
http://theabilitytolove.wordpress.com/2012/11/22/blog-review-natalie-lui-and-baggage-reclaim/
I needed this. My ex is the mother of all assclowns. He overlapped me with a new gf when our son was 3 months old. He broke up with me without a valid explanation and just said things are not working out. We had already started plans on getting married. A week later he had pictures all over FB of him and a new chick who I had been suspicious of and who he had said was just a friend. A month later he proposes to her and the new gf is now flashing her ring all over social media and posting pictures of them happy together. They are both not my friends on FB but we have mutual friends so its hard to avoid. Word has it they are getting married next year. My son is 6 months old and the EUM ex still insists on being in his life and sees him once in a while and helps with support.And he also has the whole let’s be friends line going on. Im going through a difficult time and I do not know how to initiate NC while we share a son, so Im forced to have this assclown in my life forever.Worst thing, I still love him.
BR has really helped go through this and I hope Nat will write something about assclown baby daddys and how to deal with them.
Aw Celeste.
I had a very similar situation (except that my baby was two months old and we weren’t ever getting married… I was just a permanent piece of overlap until he met someone ‘worthy’). I’ve since been lucky enough to see him three times a week, pretty much every week, and I know that it’s not easy.
I have read Natalie’s advice on situations where people share a child/children before (think there’s a post on here somewhere about it – I’ll go and look in a sec). But in the meantime and with the benefit of hindsight and in the spirit of do-as-I-say-not-as-I-did, here’s my advice:
a) you are under no obligation to be friends with him. He hasn’t treated you as a friend, he’s been emotionally callous at the most vulnerable time of your life. So I’d aim for civil, but don’t let him act as though you owe him ANYTHING other than access to his child – don’t let him into your house and don’t talk to him about anything other than the child. Remember – it’s pretty noble of you to be doing the Right Thing and letting him have that, considering how painful he’s made it.
b) have rigid and regular arrangements and make it clear that you won’t accommodate him if he messes you around. He has a right to see his child, but on your terms and only if he honours the arrangements. Don’t let him stroll in and out whenever it suits him, and don’t run around making it easier for him. If he wants to see his kid then he can put the welly in.
c) you don’t want your child growing up seeing him make you miserable – you want your child to learn healthy relationship habits. So make it clear that if he breaks ANY of your boundaries and makes you feel uncomfortable or upset IN ANY WAY he will forfeit ALL contact with you and have to put up with complicated and tiresome arrangements with third-parties etc to see the baby.
d) Treat it like a business/professional relationship wherever possible – see Natalie’s advice on working with your ex.
e) DON’T fall into the trap of sitting around a lot on your own because you’ve got a baby – get out and about wherever possible and try to build an interesting life for both of you in other directions. I know it feels as though nothing will make you feel better atm, but even something that makes you feel a teeny bit better/distracts you for a short while is better than nothing.
f) (This one is hard) Make a pact with yourself that you won’t EVER use the baby to ‘get’ at him. Even if you don’t think that’s morally wrong, it’ll just keep you bound to him and his reactions emotionally, you won’t get the result that you want and it’ll just suck.
g) Don’t subscribe to his portrayal of events – it isn’t true. At the moment he’ll be making out to himself and everyone else that you were a ‘mistake’ and she’s the love of his life. This is utter codswallop. What happened was that he was too much of an immature and emotionally stunted little boy to be able to cope with the responsibility and difficulties of having a child, and he dealt with that by finding himself an easier situation. He’s still an immature and emotionally-stunted little child and she’ll find that out the minute things get difficult in any way, shape or form for them.
h) Remember that things change – I imagine that it feels like you’re stuck in this situation forever but things will look different in the future.
i) Get your head round the fact that you aren’t EVER going to be together, no matter what happens – not because he didn’t want it, but because YOU don’t want it. Your baby is too precious to risk taking a chance on his/her emotional health by getting together with a flaky ac, father or not. You want to be modelling a positive relationship and one day you will be.
j) Take lots of photos, make a million souvenir scrapbooks, create lots of brilliant memories and make the all-time most of your gorgeous baby. The thing that I most regret now is that I was too busy being sad to really enjoy my son’s babyhood.
I know that this is really really really hard and I think it sounds as though you’re doing terrifically well so far. Lots of hugs for you and the baby xxxx
PS The most important thing that you can give your child – far far more important than a father figure – is an upbringing with an emotionally healthy and coping mother.
If you feel as though it’s getting too much for you then imo you’re perfectly within your rights to do what you can to stay okay and sane, even if that means making his life much harder.
Also, call in any and all help and support that you can from family, friends etc.
http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/reader-question-how-do-i-stick-to-no-contact-when-we-have-kids/
Awww you guys, You’re the greatest. That has helped me so much more. This site is awesome. I know it really needs for me to have a thick skin but with your advice I believe Im a step further into happier land.
No worries – glad it helped
Thick skin schmick schkin. Don’t beat yourself up for the way that you’re feeling (it’s a horrifically difficult situation, whichever level you look at it). Having said that, you need to make sure that you don’t give him anymore opportunities to wriggle in and make you feel worse. You’ve got enough on your plate and you need to be able to keep it together.
(I wish I’d followed my own advice! The number of times I’ve had to deal with the baby, the laundry, work, other responsibilities AND process another lorry-load of rejection that he just casually dumped on me… flamin nuisance and completely pointless).
One day you’ll be in a place where you can look at him and just see him as a bit of a pest but nothing more. I know this because if I can get there then anyone can.
In the meantime, keep posting and do as many nice things for yourself as you can, whenever you possibly can
yoghurt?
you. are. awesome.
thanks cc
you. are. awesome. too. (and I miss your posts).
Mind, I’d be MORE awesome if I’d actually followed my own advice from the beginning…
Grizelda,
I really enjoyed your post. With overlappers it is definitely an ego thing. They justify it by thinking, “Hey I’ve gotta look out for me and get my needs met.” Well, yes, but they take it to such an extreme. So much so they lose the ability to empathize. They can’t imagine/put thought into how their actions will affect the current partner and the new one ( who they are using as a buffer to get them over the current/previous relationship problems, which doesn’t work, it just puts them in more emotional debt). When we don’t fully experience the pains of our losses or thoughtfuly, authentically and honestly examine the issues/ problems, they follow us into the present and future until we face them. Also, there are people who find themselves severely unhappy/in a funk and they think a new town (geographical fix, often times seen with addicts/alcoholics and my exes) or that a new job/change in scenery will do the trick. And that a previous or different woman will fix their inner turmoil. I’m not saying it’s wrong to want to move, change careers, hobbies, friends or partners…..but first: ill gotten gains are never, ever good under any circumstance, and we have to be really solid, self loving and self accepting people or we will repeat the same mistakes using the same bad habits with the same shady people, jobs, etc. Real, lasting change starts from the inside and permeates outward. Also people (women do this too in dating) are not automobiles to be discarded and traded up.
Natalie, Jennifer, Rosie:
You all pretty much summed up my last ex. It took me a very long time to get over her. I was her overlap. I didn’t realize then what I know now after finding BR.
She did a geographical, moved clear across the pond, told me her relationship was over. I waited a few months to get to know her before it became romantic. I wanted to make sure she was out of that relationship. We hung out as friends, she kept telling me it was over. I believed her because she was “only a friend”, and I thought she was being honest, speaking with no ulterior motives.
An attraction grew, I acted on it when I finally believed she was out of her relationship. Because she was in a new country, I figured she really was single now. Yeah, there were red flags, but she was so….
It ended so badly, all along she was trying to get her “ex” back into her life, move her to the US. Even though I knew something was wrong, I still thought she would pick me.
I’ve done every single thing Natalie has written about. This being overlapped, felt like being cheated on, and used. I know a lot of you str8 women feel used by men for sex sometimes. I’d never felt that with a woman. This woman used me for sex, and to buffer her loneliness. To help her establish a new home in a new country, her business, to feel connected to her new life.
She threw me away when she was done. She is rotten to the core. I felt so bad for so long, and I guess I still do a little but nothing like I used to.
This woman feels entitled to use others, she was very vain. I now understand why she moved to another country. I’m sure she burned bridges. Her “ex” had cheated on her for years, like a fool I let her use me to get back at her ex. She must have really rubbed her ex’s nose in it. I was just a device, I was just what was needed to help her work her plan out. It was really awful! I stuck my head in the sand and let it all happen. I paid dearly for this. She ended up with what she planned, she was a very good planner.
Thanks to BR, I will never ever ever be involved with a shady using cheating lying excuse for a woman.
Thanks you guys, you’ve all helped tremendously.
Wow, pinkpanther, it doesn’t seem as if you were subconsciously trying to sabotage this one. It seems you were trying to do everything “right” but still got burned. I’m really sorry.
I haven’t posted much as to why I read BR and started posting and I don’t know if it’s necessary. BR is helping me too. Even though I thought I’ve learned many of the lessons already through therapy and boundary-work, each of Natalie’s posts brings up an issue or a past memory that I had forgotten about or thought I was healed of but…and I start crying, not sure why.
Awh Rosie,
Work through those tears. Validate them. They are worth something. I promise. Feel those feelings! They are worth their weight in gold. Take care. I know facing all the things BR can bring up hurts. But it is worth it. And it gets easier/empowering.
Years ago, an ex-boyfriend who was a habitual overlapper, married an ex-friend who was also a habitual overlapper (her mom was one too, didn’t leave her pedophile husband until she found somebody to replace him with). Ex-boyfriend needed to return something that was mine; thus, we were talking on the phone and his wife was in the background pulling all sorts of loud attention-getting behavior as if Godzilla just walked in the room. Ex-boyfriend called her “stupid” and seemed embarrassed by her behavior unaware that I also noticed his abusive behavior toward his own wife.
Because I was still hurt and feeling betrayed, I inflated my ego to the size of Godzilla and thought that I, “Rosie” was the reason the wife was feeling so insecure. Really, though, her insecurity had nothing to do with me. Because their getting together was an overlapping, the foundation was insecure from the get-go. Really, if he started paying attention to the dog down the street, she’d be jealous of the dog.
Overlappers don’t engage in real relationships. Using somebody as a security blanket isn’t engaging that person in a relationship; it’s viewing that person as an “object of use”. Sick.
Thank you for this post Natalie! It is really pissed me off, why these men can do these horrible things and we cannot??? I am so fed up, I really want to hurt them, especially after reading all comments here:( Hate. Men.
Little Star,
Plenty of women do this, too!
Little Star,
please don’t hate men.
I for example love my dad to bits.
He is a man. He has flaws. He didn’t always do a good job in raising me. But his heart is golden. Many of us here don’t always have a good relationship with their father, mine portrays one that started out gentle, followed by very rough moments (alcoholic) and continued in a recovered, grown up and loving way. Not every man who makes mistakes in his life is an *sshole.
It’s not always easy to keep your faith in men in general when all you’ve experienced is betrayal, lies and incapability of having an honest tender relationship, but do try to look for, or remember a man in your life who gave that you. Surely there has to be some male example you can trust your image of men onto?
Aw no, little star, you’ve got that upside-down.
The people who behave like this? THEY AREN’T THE LUCKY ONES. Unless they change (which’ll be hard) they’re going to go through life never being satisfied, never being secure and never growing as people because they never face up to anything difficult.
Really, they’re just big wimps. You can hardly expect to handle life properly, with all of its attendant joys, challenges and miseries, if you can’t even handle a break-up.
I used to be this kind of wimp. I’m not now
Feels much better.
Little star
Unfortunately karma, fate, the laws of the universe do catch up with them.
My father is one. He has left a trail of damaged women and children behind him and now lives on the other side of the world. His health is failing, he battles with depression and alcoholism and has little money even though he was highly paid all his life. There is not one single solitary person where he lives who cares whether he lives or dies, other than his latest ex wife who is desperately trying to offload responsibility for him.
We who were discarded without a second thought are trying to do what we can from the other side of the planet.
I hope and believe that people can change otherwise the outlook for all of us is bleak. But if they fail to change and go on with their AC ways they do pay a heavy price for it.
The hide of them June! Seriously! Your ace there is that everyone at work knows exactly how lacking in moral fibre they are! Ugh. Good for you standing yourlground though. If it’s a good job that you love & worked hard to get why should you leave? If anyone feels uncomfortable let it be the other party. Too rediculous for words! Again, very sorry to hear you’ve had to go through this. No sense making there except glad yr shot of them both!
MRwriter I really enjoyed reading of your exp. What a lovely story. Thanks for sharing. T
Sometimes a relationship is not going well and you do think that you would be better with someone else. Fine. Take care of business first. End things, be honest, take time to heal so no ones your rebound. As a woman on the receiving end of a chronic overlapper, I can attest that it’s an extremely hurtful place to be, discarded like some sort of unwanted dog once you’ve served your purpose.
@Jennifer: yep, sometimes folks move/ switch jobs because they have burned their bridges with their crap behavior. Sometimes they move/switch jobs because they have been on the receiving end of crap behavior and options for meeting someone healthy are very few where they live. Unfortunately the folks that really ought to reflect on what they are doing and how it affects others do not; they just keep on destroying others.
Sam … “some do it as a self protection”. Uh, they ALL do it as a self protection. But when you are in a relationship, you are (supposed to be) accountable and concerning of someone else. Regardless of if you no longer desire to be. It is SELFISH to overlap … all about making sure you aren’t uncomfortable. It is uncomfortable to break up with someone. But grownups have to deal with those feelings, can handle them, and they act responsibly so they aren’t kicking themselves in remorse. If you can’t deal with all the feelings/accountability/ uncertainty of dating, don’t date.
Well I´m feeling a bit sad right now because it´s my birthday and my former supposedly good friends (who I was working with last year and overlapped me before making life impossible for me so I´d quit) haven´t taken the trouble to wish me well on facebook.
Neither has the exEUM (who put my photo in the social pages of a newspaper last year). He must be really offended because I told him You either want to be with me or you don´t. So he probably went after someone less demanding he had been grooming before.
I know I don´t ever want to have anything to do with all these people but somehow I expected some level of decency or goodwill in that they would at least acknowledge my birthday, as they´ve done for years. Is this some kind of declaration of war? As in, If you don´t approve of our behaviour, Lilia, we don´t want anything to do with you?
Perhaps I´m feeling bad because them making some gesture to maintain contact with me would mean that they were wrong and I was right – it would be a way to ask for forgiveness or something?
Lilia, it was my birthday a couple of weeks back and the exMM acknowledge it. I’ll admit I was secretly hoping he would remember. Now, I wish he hadn’t. It was enough for me to let my guard down and I let things slip back into the personal again. I can see now it was just a way in, an opportunity to manipulate my feelings and unfortunately, it worked for a while. You don’t need birthday wishes from people who have hurt you and will probably continue to hurt you. But you do need them from people who care. Happy Birthday, Lilia.
Not a declaration of war. Just so incredibly thoughtless, selfish and wrapped up in their own “I’m so great, my sh** doesn’t stink,” pathetic selves that it probably never even occurred to them to think that it was your birthday.
FLUSH, FLUSH and FLUSH again. You are so much better off without these weasels.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!! I hope this is the first day of the rest of your wonderful, joyous life!
Aw thanks Lilly and Pintura Bella!
And you´re right Lilly, actually the exEUM did send me a message on gmail and posted on my fb page. I just replied “thanks” but it didn´t make me feel better, I was just reminded of his existence after months of peacefully living in NC.
Flush indeed!
Long time Lurker, First Time Poster….I need yall input my beautiful BR community!
Little Background: I am 26, being in two relationships, 4-5 years each. First one, we were just childhood sweetheart teens who grew apart. Second one, great guy, never doubted his love, but he had so many family baggage (no kids, but his parents, siblings are really MESSED up), I would not mind, except he did not want to distance himself from the mess even though it was negatively affecting his health and as we started planning to settle down (he proposed)affecting my health as well. I just began my carreer and there are nights I would sleep only ONE hour because of his family members have gotten themselves into some f–ked up mess. Anyway, I felt bad for him, I know he was the one holding the family together and he felt some sort of responsibility. So we broke up six months ago. I did not put myself out to date for 4-5 months after to obviously heal from the break.
A month and a half ago, this AC I met randomly, asked me out. He was a decade older, ridiculously good looking a foot taller than me and just confident (I would soon find out what I thought was confidence, was him being a GRADE A dou**che)
I should have known how shallow he was because the first time he approached me he said “you are just my type, I love my women petite” but I just thought this was a man who knew what he wanted.
Date one – he takes me to a Japanese restaurant, paid for the date, asked me questions etc but what kept standing out to me was he kept commenting about how beautiful he found me and my body. I was like “ummm okay”, I get attention but not THIS intense. I just shrugged it off.
Date two – We go out for dinner again, he tells me AGAIN about how pretty I am, and then comments that I should wear tighter clothes (I met him right after work, so i had on conservative coporate gear)…this was when little clinking sounds of bell started going off but boy was he good looking, so I ignored the rings
Date three – we go to some park thing, I notice he is talking mostly about himself and checking out girl, blatantly, almost creepily, as we walked by, I was never one to feel insecure EVER, none of my past BF EVER made me feel insecure so now I am noticing this new emotion/feeling and I am like okay something aint right. I start distancing myself, I should have stuck to my gut
Date four: he takes me out to celebrate a monumental carreer moment that week, very nice sushi restaurant, I drink too much sake (it was a very exciting moment) and of course end up in his place. You guessed it, we had sex. Mind you this is the first guy I am “dating” since my split, so even though I am younger, due to being in two LTRs I was naive about the current dating climate. The next day, he cooked me breakfast, we went on a stroll and I went home. I did not hear from him the rest of the day, I myself did not text him.
The next day I sent him a text saying “Hey Baby!” Mind you we started calling ourselves with pet nick names playfully since the first date. He replied in a somewhat monotone and said “Hi (Insert my Name Here)”. I was like, oookay then, trying to figure out what is going on. I did not text him anything for the rest of the day. The next day I heard nothing until late that night (I think he was expecting that I text/call him). When he saw that I was pulling away he started texting/blowing up my phone. HOT/COLD indeed.
Then I got the “come over and give me some love”, I called him out on it immediately and he was like “why are you being emotional, this is what dating is”. lol I was done. He has since called and texted me, but I have not responded. So I need your guy’s opinion, I am not sure if I am being “too emotional” or this guy is an AC.
Oh he is also a future faker, Told me he was going to take me to meet his parents/friends for a xmas dinner then after one night of staying over told me he had to travel to Brazil but it was in the middle of a heated conversation so I am guessing he forgot to future fake. Another thing that shows just how ridiculously shallow he is was that I was talking about one of my 33 year old cousin, whose an amazing girl and he was like “I would not even LOOK at anyone over 30″…he is 36-37. I know it has been a short time but I wish I just followed by instinct and just cut it off. smh
Ewww. Flush immediately.
Fmi – Your story sounds eerily like mine which is why I ended up finding BR. The AC I had the misfortune to meet last year future faked me to the hilt, told me he wanted me to meet his family and friends (I never did)took me to a lovely Japanese restaurant and on date 3 we went for a night out in the City and of course drank a little too much and ended up back at his place, and he was calling me babe/baby from day one. He also used a trip to Brazil as part of his plan to fade me out. Oh and he was extremely good looking! This guy swept me off my feet then dropped me like a hot potato after dating for about 2 months. However, more to the point it seems like he has got what he wanted and now wants to make an exit. I think you should ask him straight out what he his looking for, is it long term, friendship, short term? Everything has happened so fast and he has been showering you with compliments and nice meals, this makes it difficult to know what the hell is going on. I wish I had followed my instinct!
@ Stephanie, we do have a similar situation! I asked him straight up and he was like “I want you to be my girlfriend, Chill Out!!!” which was what he tied to be being too emotional. Like I said, it was just a little over a month and since I am new to the dating climate I was not sure if calling him out on trying to put me in a fck buddy category was too soon. Like I am just so shocked that someone that old will be into these kinds of games…but obviously after reading so many of the posts here i now know Assclownry has no age limit. smh
@FMI: For what it’s worth, I do believe in global warming, but I do NOT believe in any kind of “dating climate change”. Guys like that have always been around (at least since the “sexual revolution” of the 1960s I guess). I’ve been fed similar BS 10 years ago when I was in my mid-twenties, and I know 60 year old guys who have ALWAYS had that attitude towards women.
Don’t use a purported “change in dating climate” as an excuse to put up with disrespectful treatment. There is no such change.
Oh no, please do not ask him. It’s quite clear what this guy wants.
Go NC!!!
Following,
Sorry to say this, but this guy was only out for sex.
When you mentioned the comment made about your body on the first date, I knew this dude was not up for anything permanent. If a man is respectful and wants to seriously date a woman, he will not make these types of comments.
If something doesn’t feel right, it usually isn’t. Next time, follow your gut and dump after the first date. BTW, he is a waste if time!!!!!
Hi FMI,
although I would have the energy right now to reply to you on various things you mentioned about your dates with this man, (as I’m sure others will be more concise in commenting to you about this or to be more precise, I’m a bit insecure of how I’m coming off in english so I try to stick to what I see myself commenting clearly about)
I’d like to take you on a very short ride.
The kind of ride you took yourself with this man.
You’re young (yes!) and you had your first *fling* with a definite AC.
He was clearly after the physical aspect and he is trying to maintain a physical realtionship with, one that is clearly casual but he masks it up with what he thinks women want to hear.
The fact that he is handsome is not something he earned through life or experience, he is merely exploiting that, because like you say so yourself throughout your comment, you don’t even like him AT ALL.
I understand the wanting to date part, boy I do to, and please enjoy yourself while doing so, there is nothing wrong with that. But don’t try to put meaning into something you clearly don’t want to be putting meaning into.
Even if this would last longer than it does right now, you don’t like him.
You are asking if he is an AC? I think he is textbook AC. I think it’s not your inability to read him (because you are questioning your own gut feeling), it seems to me to be the reality of him. After what you described, I might want to watch him as he’s handsome, but boy I wouldn’t want to spend time with him.
D’you know what, fmi?
Quite aside from the fact that the guy is clearly a big massive creep, your post seems to show that you don’t particularly like or respect him that much ANYWAY. You think he’s a total slimeball and he was really making you feel uncomfortable from very early on.
Frankly, although I don’t think that you were too emotional, I think that ANY emotion (or time or effort) spent on this dude is way way too much. Good-looking or not, YOU didn’t like HIM and you thought he was a creep. So dance as you walk away and stop fretting – you aren’t stuck with a slimeball, whoop!
Yoghurt and FHS, perhaps I got lost in translation. I did find that him checking out other girls blatantly and commenting non stop about my body creeped me out and his comment about him not dating anyone over 30 made me see him as a DOUCHE, but there are parts of him I like. He is quite charming, funny (aren’t they all?) I have seem how he talks to his mom (on the phone) and he has two dogs who he adores….I love his dogs too! Anyway I hear you guys loud and clear but wanted to clear it up. It is not that I do not like him, it is more that there are AC traits I see in him that I do not like and find downright unnerving. So I have another question? How do I let him know that I am not into this whole thing anymore? I have never had to go NC after such a short period? do I send a text? email? give the reasons why? or do i just say “sorry this isn’t working out”?
P.P.S. update* So after pretty much ignoring his texts and calls after the whole “calling out” incident after the “come over and give me some some love” comment, he just called and was like “I want to take you out on a date”…these Ac’s man, they know just what to say to have us women second guessing ourselves don’t they? smh….anywho off to the movies and look forward to reading your replies.
I personally quite like the idea of sending something like “Thanks for the outings but I’m not interested. Good luck for the future but please don’t contact me any more”. I think that at this stage it’s polite and sensible to send some sort of official cut-off but I agree that you don’t owe him anything.
I can see what you’re saying – I’m sure that if I was in your position I’d be thinking “ooo, but he’s so nice in some ways…” (it’s so easy when it’s other people!) BUT I think it’s about headline data. His manky moral attitude towards relationships might not seem like the most important thing now, but it’ll still be there when his mum has died, he’s too arthritic to own dogs and all his teeth have fallen out.
(Unless he changes it. Which he won’t while it gets him results).
In short, if you don’t like his attitude towards women then, as a woman, you don’t like HIM… no matter how tasteful the gift-wrap.
Thanks! I’ve been a bit of a cross-patchy ranter – on here and in rl – recently, so that was lovely to read!
You can say it in person, send a text, an email, a letter, smoke signals, anything you like because you’re not in a relationship and you don’t owe him an explanation.
You do have to mean it and be firm though.
I agree about the comments about your body. He sees you as a collection of body parts, not really as a person with their own thoughts and feelings. Remember that if he hassles you (and he likely will) and cut him off.
Sorry for murdering the English language “VHS” and Yoghurt. Trying to rush to get ready for the movies with some of my girls.
P.S. Yoghurt, I have read a lot of your posts and I love your insight.
Stick to no contact this guy has shown you who he is and he will not change do not waste years on a guy like this, take it from who tried for 5 years it is not worth it.
You responding to him in anyway will result in him blowing cold again because you have stroked his ego.
STAY AWAY cannot emphasise that enough.
FLUSH! Sounds like the ONLY thing this sex-seeking clown has going for him is that he’s good looking. Something HE didn’t create or earn…accident of genetics.
Write him off, don’t give him a second thought. The thing to take away from this is: ALWAYS trust your gut! It’s never wrong.
Follow, given what you’ve said, observed, and experienced, I’d suggest following your instinct. You can jog on even though you had sex with him. You aren’t married, engaged, or have any other ties with this guy other than sex. If you are getting the heebie jeebie’s, blowing hot/cold, it’s probably not going to get better. BTW, dating for some folks means “come over and give me some love”. Read Natalie’s posts on the “Justifying Zone”. Just because you had sex, doesn’t mean you have to spend the rest of your twenties trying to justify it. Count it as experience and contemplate whether having sex before you know the guy is the way to go.
In ten years, this guy will be 46-47 and will probably look a little different! He’ll have to look at ladies over 30 then.
Omg You ladies are nothing short of amazing! Thanks for all the advice and input. Taken all to heart and going NC, I know he will try to contact me and he is in a profession where I am scared he can track my phone via my phone number and find me..lol maybe I am just paranoid but the only reason I picked up his phone last time (after ignoring his messages) is because I thought I saw his car across from where I was waiting for my transit..but I digress…DEFINITELY NOT ENTERTAINING THIS AC anymore.
I have the policy that I won’t date separated men as you never know you could be listed in a divorce! They are also emotional wrecks. Some of you may remember me telling the tales of the 4 men I’ve met since my marriage broke down. I am now divorced but it is just a year and I’ve been on my own for 2 years. Anyway the MM (married marauder) that pursued me for 20 years and got blown out 5 times yes really, got a bloody nose big style. His business recently folded and he has debts of millions of pounds due to his gold digging wife. I escaped that bullet as he was trying to overlap with me with the following events.
One of his investors sells out so the business is taken over but he still has his stake which he eventually loses. He survives a life threatening event and then realises on his death bed how much I mean to him (one time in band camp). Declares undying love then disappears so gets blown out as I wasn’t going there with him. Not long after he makes his declaration his business goes into administration and I reckon his marriage is next. But he will be bankrupt. I don’t do pity parties where men are concerned nor am I a rescue service financially or emotionally. I knew that even if he left his wife he would be an emotional wreck. Anyway he knows that I found out his business collapsed as I sent him a text (couldn’t resist that). I reckon he went off radar because he knew he was rumbled and that I wasn’t a pushover. What the sequence of events tells me is that he was looking at me as a lifeboat and is just a total shit bag. I hope his marriage fails so he knows what it is like as he tried to manipulate me at my low times under the umbrella of “friendship” when mine failed. If he ends up single he will be a serial overlapper as I know that he had 11 sexual partners in 3 years before he met his wife! They actually deserve each other and boy have I learned a lot from his behaviour in a positive way. Thank goodness I never got involved with him. He is now reaping what he sowed as he allowed the debts to accumulate. His wife isn’t likely to stay as her lifestyle is too important as she wasn’t coping after he recovered from his near death event when he wasn’t earning and her lifestyle was turned upside down. I would never trust him if he was single. What goes around comes around.
First, I would like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for all your words of wisdom. I have been reading your posts for several mths. now & I have to say what an eye opener after spending 7 yrs. with questions of is my ex just an alcoholic,EU,AC,narcissist or all of the above. He ticked several boxes in each. I know I have to come to the realization that he was what he was, he did what he did & I accepted all of it. There is nothing I can do now to change what is but, I sure do need to change myself which is probably the hardest thing I’ve had to face thus far. I have been living with the pain, betrayal,lonliness, destroyed self-esteem, feelings of what was real or not craziness & most recently anger for over 2 yrs. since our final breakup.
This post has been one of most profound as my ex was a major overlapper & I’m embarassed to say, more than once during our 7 yrs. together. When I first met him he was recently seperated (1st Red Flag)from a 14 yr. marriage. I was assured by mutual friends of what a great guy he was & that their marriage had been an abusive one. Also,that my ex was the one who suffered by the hands of his wife. From then on he quickly fast forwarded me & future faked me though, I had no clue at the time.He quickly introduced me to his family & friends & they embraced me- they all were so elated that I had come into his life telling me he deserved someone who really loved & cared for him. Needless, to say I fell head over heals with him. I felt sorry for what he had gone through (what he made me believe) & thought I was going to fix things & show him what having a loving relationship was like.
Although, he drank continuously (2nd Red Flag) he was never physically abusive to me but, was very self-absorbed, selfish at times & emotionally distant…things were always on his terms after the first few mths. He constantly showered me with lovely & expensive gifts, told me he loved me several times a day & talked about our future continuously. All through that I still felt like something was missing..he was emotionally detached & sex had just about ceased (due to his drinking I’m sure). Four yrs. later we have a huge fight ending in me throwing him out. He immediately gets involved with a married woman who I find out later he had been messing with while still with me. That lasts for 4 mths. & she leaves her husband for someone else. 4 mths. after that my ex is back on my door step & pours the same bs to me he did in the very beginning. It took a while but, I eventually gave in to him believing he had changed & really was sorry for what he did. Yes, what a fool but, I loved him. Within the yr. we become engaged & move to a home out in the country although, I still kept my apt. Things were great for awhile but,then issues of various kinds started to seep back into the picture. We started to fight alot instead of discussing things in a civilized manner, his drinking increased & my feelings of anxiety began to creep in again. Two yrs.later after a huge fight he announces that he is not happy & wants to end the relationship. I was devestated to say the least. At this point I had invested more than just my love into our relationship planning on our marriage & setting up our house. Come to find out, he once again had someone waiting in the wings. Someone who made more money than I did. She knew nothing of me but, it didn’t matter because she stayed with him even though, she knew he had been dishonest with her, also. He becomes engaged to her 2mths. later but, that relationship ends within the yr. All during the time with her I remained NC even though he continued in all that time to drive by my house. I still remain NC after hearing of their break even though, he starts to call me again which I ignored. Then I hear a few mths. later he is moving someone in to what was supposed to be our home & 2 mths. later marries her. This woman is a drinker like him & obviously desperate to get married. She calls me 1 mth. after dating him to tell me to leave him alone & that they were getting married. I was dumbfounded..told her I hadn’t spoken to him in 2yrs. & good luck. Not sure why she felt the need to call me.
Anyways, although I know he was a waste of my time I still have moments of regret, feelings of love for the person I thought he was & feelings of why her & not me but, I am working hard on that & thanks to you Natalie, I’m starting to realize that I really wasn’t crazy.
I dated an overlapper once for about 10 months. Sure enough I saw the signs, but he ended up dating her next. Because he’s still in my circle of friends, I have now seen him do the same cycle exactly 5 times. Every single one has been the ONE. He chooses the same physical type, all nice women, but before he breaks up with someone he will have another lined up. He accepts no responsibility for the breakups, it’s always them. The sad part is, everyone around him knows this now. So absolutely right, these people don’t change or grow because they are too busy working on the next relationship to find out why they have a pattern, why it isn’t working or who they really are and what they want. I actually pity both him and the poor women who get suckered in. But very glad he isn’t with me anymore
If your partner is overlapping, there’s a very strong chance that he/she may be a malignant narcissist. Please take some time to read up on the warning signs of narcissism and the way they think. The narcissist ALWAYS has one or more sources of “supply” on tap, waiting in the wings, or sometimes carries on with several people at the same time. It’s all about getting THEIR needs met, not yours.
Even if your relationship has ended, it’s a good idea to learn about narcissistic behaviors and compare your ex to the checklist. If you find that you were involved with a narcissist, at least now you’ll know what warning signs to look for so you don’t do it again!
Lori,
What a great post. It didn’t even occur to me to relate the two. It makes sense. Thank you!
Lori,
Yep! I write and educate about psychopaths. I do believe that narcissism is their CORE trait. It’s unfortunate that many are educated only AFTER the fact, but it’s better late then never.
I think even though it’s really important to understand the disorders in order to define and clarify the characteristics, it’s even better to be a healthier person, to have boundaries and values. Believe it or not, there are healthy people out there who are able to put a disorder out to pasture quickly, even if they don’t know what to “call” them and their behavior. A disorder SCREAMS unhealthy from the very beginning. But if we are at a deficit, we will not see it.
Awareness, building boundaries, self confidence and adhering to our values, means a disorder cannot penetrate.
They are the ULTIMATE boundary violators and they do it from the very beginning of a relationshit
Where’d that Sam guy go? Can’t see his post anymore to reply.
I wanted to tell him: Irrespective of behavior being conscious or unconscious we are still responsible for our behaviors each in every day in each and every moment/second irrespective of how difficult it may be.
I was an “overlapper”. Having been raised in a pathological home, I ran from my fears and feelings. I went from first boyfriend, to ex husband psychopath to an affair with last ex psychopath. I say WAS because I have implemented MANY changes to my life. I have been single for nearly two years. Much of those two years have been spent purging my inner demons and “shady” like behavior to get to the bottom of what amounted to an extraordinary amount of childhood sexual abuse and trauma.
I consider it a miracle to have this awareness now. It’s true that many overlappers are assclowns and/or EUM’s. What really matter is do they, in the end, have the ability for change. Most do not. But some like me, do. Maybe some of us here were overlappers too, but not for the same reasons as those who are without empathy or conscience.
I’m choosing now, to be kind to myself and to others who are also capable of change.
http://theabilitytolove.wordpress.com/2012/11/23/to-the-psychopath-we-are-all-the-other-woman/
K,
Thanks for the blog link. Very helpful indeed!
Crumbs, I’m watching my 23 yro daughter go through a bad break up with the bf and she is turning to another guy. She is currently in the yo-yo phase with the bf, trying to resurrect their relationship. He keeps leading her on and then shutting her down. She keeps getting dressed up to go out with the bf and then I keep getting the call to come pick her up all tear stained and demoralized. Recently, she revealed to me that in August, she was pregnant and had an abortion. So rather than dealing with the shame/pain/hurt/disappointment of the abortion and subsequent break up (because he wasn’t empathizing with her), she has jumped at the first next guy who seems to be giving her attention. Damn. She’s rebounding, overlapping, and trying to avoid a ton of stuff. I’m sitting on the sidelines watching her rebound, overlap, and avoid her pain. Wow folks, I’m not sure what it more difficult, going through it or watching it and not being able to rescue her. She is sooo not conscious of what she is doing. She is confused as hell and in a ton of pain. I’m doing the “being there for her at every turn”.
If this new guy is taking advantage of her, he may turn up missing a body part. But who is overlapping whom? Arrgh…parenthood. Cherish every moment before they can drive!
Yoghurt, I read everything you write with such great admiration. You are one awesome, amazing, incredible person. I want you to know, I think of you often as I do everyone on this wonderful site.
Now I just have to find a way to turn my daughter on to BR.
@runner: Please don’t try too hard to “make her see”. Make your point, but don’t worry too much whether she “gets” its or not. I can imagine how difficult this is if it’s your own child (even if I don’t have kids), but still she’s an adult. I think you should focus on yourself and YOUR healing instead. Believe it or not, but your example and your successful healing might help her more than anything else.
Aw runnergirl… I have to admit that you’d probably find me very uninspiring in real life right now, as I have a streaming cold and am feeling dreadful in body, mind and spirit… but reading your comment has just cheered me right up
And I think that you’re great too!
Your poor daughter – and poor you. That sounds awful – wish I knew what to suggest. It’s great that she’s felt able to tell you about the abortion and I wouldn’t underestimate how much your support is helping her, though, or how grateful she’ll be for it when she looks back on this time in her life.
You could do with being able to take her away for a few weeks to somewhere with absolutely no phone or email contact, where there’s nothing to do but think, walk, cry and sit in the sun. Still, as nice an idea as it is, I appreciate that it isn’t exactly doable
Runner, You sound like a wonderful Mom. Your daughter is so lucky to have you. I don’t have answers for you, but can only say I understand how hard it is to watch our children fall into the same holes or watch as they run towards barbed wire. My son is 26 and feels compelled to fall into he same hole over and over. When he was 6 I could scoop him up before he fell, but he makes his own choices now. I try to talk to him, and sometimes he hears, sometimes he doesn’t. I hurt for him and want to shake him at the same time. I also feel guilt that possibly my fumbles in life taught him some unhealthy habits. I am famous for saying, learn from my mistakes Son. Don’t do what I did. See, I did that and it didn’t work out. He sees, he understands, but as we know all to well, some times we put ourselves in a place we don’t like. At least I am here for him, to support and help. I had no one to tell me how to recognize holes in front of me. We can only be there, tell them the hard truths sometimes but let them know we love them. I have hope that it is collecting inside his head and will one day form a very nice epiphany. Hugs to you and your daughter.
runnergirl… I know where you are coming from. My daughter is 26yrs old.
Recovering addict, praise the lord for that, has 2 children w/different fathers and is a fabulous mother. Her choices in men remind me of myself at her age. Ugghh. Its frustrating at times and luckily we have a great relationship & I try to talk to her as much as I can about my struggles & give advise although most of the time its not acted upon by her. She does get it, but seems stuck in a rut both financially & emotionally. Its hard to watch our children struggle but there is only so much you can do.. Beyond frustrating at times. And she was there for me when the tears are streaming down my face thru all the AC stuff.. She is a blessing to me
Runner,
(((Hugs)))
runnergirl, it must be awful to watch your daughter go through this. however, i also think our awakening is often of the rude variety for a reason. she’s lucky you to have you. she’ll be on BR when she’s ready for it. ((hugs))
Thank you ladies. It’s tough to watch your own kid go through the pain of young adulthood. Yeah Selkie, it is like watching them fall in the same hole or run into barbed wire. I could scoop her up and rescue her when she was little too. Like you all say, now I guess is all I can do is be there for her. In Nat’s self-esteem course (perfectly timed), I had to work through some major issues with regards to blaming myself for my daughter’s mistakes after working through blaming myself for my parents mistakes on top of blaming myself for my mistakes. I didn’t realize how much blame and shame I was wallowing in. Talk about the sandwich generation or to be on topic, the overlapping generation!
Yoghurt, it may be time to get away. We used to travel before she went away to school. Thank you. That is a great idea.
Watching her fill the white space has been difficult. Watching her try to get him back has been painful. Then watching her fill the white space with new guy has been worse.
Talk about overlapping! My ex who promised me the world, said I was his soul mate, that our love was made in heaven, that he loved me and that he only needed me, did exactly what Natalie wrote- openned negotiations with his ex behind my back and for no reason whatsoever. We had a very peaceful relationship and had never had a disagreement or anything that would justify he calling his ex in another town and fetching her in the bus station and completely disappearing from my life without a word till I tracked him through his neighbour and he just said he had come back to his ex.
It seems that after all that loving I didnt even deserve an explanation,the consideration of a phone call, nothing. If I had not phoned him I believe that I would never had heard from him again.
Ours was a very loving relationship, very caring, very intimate, or so I thought, till he showed his true overlapping face and just went after the past.
I really loved reading this because it revealed just how i was overlapped myself and did not know i was being overlapped. Me and he had a really great relationship, went everywhere together and he said he was ‘very happy’. However, i found out quite by chance he had overlapped me for 14 months with a work colleague who i eventually saw, and which has helped me considerably to get over and out of the relationship for good.
There is absolutely no chance of me entering into any sort of conversation/meeting up with this man again. She is welcome to him as i feel she will eventually feel what i did when he decides to overlap her, and he surely will as apparently that is how he operates. He is a narcissist which i did not know at the time of the relationship but having read up on these type of people. i feel even though it has been a long haul to recover i know i am happy without him in my life, and because i do now know how these types operate i will not be taken in again by their shady behaviour.
@Sam
I think that’s a poor excuse. You say it was unintentional and that u don’t handle breakups very well so how is that justify saying that you leave the relationship only to overlap with someone else. You should really seek help because you are only damaging so many women when you should probably not even be dating at all and taking the time to see what the problems are within and what you need to work on to fix them. There are so many of us on this site that are sharing our stories about men like you. You have to have some serious issues if you are participating in behavior like this. Seek a therapist and get some help.
I wont enter into all the ‘Sam’ frey beyond this:
It is true that people can have unconcious patterns of behaviour they are unaware of
One’s penis (or vagina) does NOT without ‘purpose’, connect with another penis or vagina however. Of course there is a purpose to this behaviour, which is to have sexual relations in this case, to line up the next overlap.
Sam notes feeling ‘terrible’ about this however. Although this is not a declaration of intent to change (my ex AC for example stated he similarly felt ‘terrible’ about many of his AC behaviours, but continued nonetheless to engage in them, TOTALLY unabated lol), we might at least hope that whatever drew Sam to BR at some point triggers a committment for Sam’s sake & the sake of any future parties.
We might also hypothesise (for that is ALL it is), that Sam has some work to do, but haven’t we all, & we also need to remember, that we all started somewhere. I hope that’s a fair & balanced assessment.
T
Lilly, if you were dealing with someone with NPD, knowing that critical piece of info can be the turning point in your own healing. I was at a COMPLETE LOSS to understand WTF I had found myself caught up in, & why the trauma bonding was so difficult to break until I found this GIANT key which was the missing piece of the puzzle for me. Once I was armed that KNOWLEDGE (& a stack of surrounding info) I WAS FREE because I finally knew the beast with which I was wrestling. So YES, it makes ALL the difference to know this information. Good for you! Hugs! Teach x
Teachable, “…..I finally knew the beast with which I was wrestling”. The more I read and compare my experience with others the more I’m convinced I’m dealing with a narcissist. It all fits, the manipulation, the cruelty, lack of empathy, etc, etc. Informing myself about the psychodynamics of N means that I can learn how to deal with him and protect myself (until I can finally break away and I’m working on that). It also means that I can start working on why I allowed myself to be a ‘target’ in the first place. I read somewhere that they don’t target ‘weak’ people because they a looking to feed their ego which is a relief! I like to think of myself as a strong, capable person. At least I was before he came along and this means I can be again. Thanks, Teach. Hugs right back,x.
@Lilly: “Informing myself about the psychodynamics of N means that I can learn how to deal with him and protect myself (until I can finally break away and I’m working on that)”
Nope. Someone being a narcissist means abort mission IMMEDIATELY. Get out now!
You can’t “protect yourself” while you’re with them. Many of us (especially the ones with a narcissistic parent) have ended up in utter misery while trying that. If he’s a narc, OPT OUT.
And btw, they “target” everyone, weak or strong. The only difference is how people respond to them.
I agree with EllyB. He can’t target you if you’re not there.
Wow. When I met my last girlfriend two years ago, she was at the end of a relationship. But she didn’t actually tell me that until our second outing. A few weeks later she broke up with him and let me know. I tried to let her take it slow; still we were dating within two months.
A year later when she broke up with me, I was shocked to eventually find out she had started up immediately with a coworker. I hear they were married a couple weeks ago, while I’m single and still only 98% over it.
Sure sounds like a serial overlapper. But if I were to show her this article, which seems to describe her perfectly (not that I speak to her anymore), she’d probably say what she said at the breakup: She had to move on quickly because she’s “looking for someone to spend her life with.”
Good for you Lilly. Yes, they target kind, loving women who have a strong sense of decency. Also high achievers so they can tear us down, afterwards, bit by painful bit! It is a boost to his ego to think that he can land such a great catch as us! He knows all along though that he is not anywhere near on our level. He may even make comments to this effect in the early days & we will scratch our heads, & wonder what he is talking about, before replying with encouraging words trying to boost his non existant self esteem (which we will mistakenly see as merely a lack of self confidence).
Does this mean we that should stop being any of the fine qualities attracted him to us? Hell no! What it does mean is that we can more FINELY TUNE our eyes & ears next time for the signs of the narrcissist, because now we know WHAT TO LOOK FOR. I don’t have to tell you how deadly his sting is, for you lived it, as too have I, & many of us @ BR. And now you are on well on your way to healing. Big hugs! Xxx
yes, with a narc, the better he thinks you are, the more value he will place on the “supply” he gets from you. That is why at the start you go through the idealization stage where they seem to put you on a pedestal and worship you. Next (when he knows you are hooked) comes the devalue stage where they will withdraw physically, sexually or emotionally. Or all three. The nasty comments will start. Or the “big freeze” or the “I’m just not feeling it/don’t know what I want.” Finally you will either be discarded, or your self esteem will hit such a low that your “real/old self” will jump in and rescue you before he destroys you, and you will dump him. Then, when you least expect it, he will decide he is low on new supply/admiration, and will call you up, and expect you to just slot in where you left off. He may even try to be “that guy from the beginning” for a few days/weeks, cos he know that works. Then, when you are hooked again, the devaluing will start again. Some women have spent/wasted YEARS of their lives in this cycle.
PS And Lilly, you ARE a strong & capable woman. Always know & remember that, come what may. Xx
My husband targeted his next victim while I was away on holiday with my children.
She was already on the scene when I came back.
He then walked out on me on My Birthday.
They have to have another woman set-up before they leave.
Just shows what weak, horrible men they are.
Hey Yoghurt (I enjoy reading yr posts btw, thanku for sharing with us
).
Just a quick note on something I picked up on:
Psychopaths & ppl with NPD (Narrcissistic Personality Disorder) do share the common trait of coming across as verying charming but this is false charm underpinned by a lack of empathy & a host of other very toxic behaviours.
Being able to identify a perp of abuse or ex or current partner as having traits of these disorders ought not be seen as any sort of ‘kudos’ as it’s quite the opposite. At worst, your consumate psychopath is a serial killer! A lesser one, or narrcissicist in top form, will clear out your bank accounts, those of your elderly frail parents too & leave you penniless all while doing the same thing to numerous other women similtaneously!
Naming someone as suffering these conditions isn’t ‘cool’ in any way, shape or form. Quite the opposite! It should strike terror & dread into the heart of anyone unfortunate enough to have fallen within their highly manipulative & life destrying web! The moment I suspect anyone of these conditions I can assure you I don’t don’t think, ‘cool’ or ‘charming’. I think, RUN FOR MY LIFE, as I know well, that mine, may very well be in danger! It’s kinda like saying saying someone has a dreadful anti social DISEASE that is going to HARM you! Because that is what psychopathy & NPD are – incurable personality disorders. People with these disorders will literally distroy all they leave in their wake! Ugh!
I just wanted to mention that because, narrcissism, is in fact as far from ‘charming’ as one can possibly get!!!!
T
I disagree with EllyB & maintain that the research suggests that narrcissicists tend to target strong, successful, high achievers, with good values in terms of kindness, generosity, & having a social conscience etc, (generally speaking, which isn’t to say there aren’t exceptions, I.e. it is ‘beneath’ a true narrcissist to see themselves with a low achiever), however, I agree STRONGLY that the only sane option with a narrcissist is to OPT OUT; the sooner the better.
Staying with a narrcissist is highly detrimental to all areas of ones life, especially your health.
Hi everyone, help please.
Could anyone recommend a good read on narcissism? There is so much on the web, don`t know where to start and what I looked at refers mostly to clinical/extreme characteristics while my narc experience, while certainly there was I think of a more “narcisstically inclined “, subtle but still deadly variety. Or possibly since I grew up with it I register some of the issues as normal. I`d like to sort my narc/father thing in my head a bit more since prospect of family time at Christmas is starting to make me anxious. Thanks in advance.
Sushi, I’m afraid I don’t know very much about narcissism yet, but Susan Forward has written a book called ‘Toxic Parents:Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life’ which might be useful to you. I’ve read a couple of her books and found them to be really helpful. I hope the holidays go well for you.
Thank you very much Lilly, I`ll try that.
@Sushi
There is a book called ‘The psycopath next door’ which is quite good and there are extracts of the book online if you search. I wanted to find anything which related to his behaviour and like you, i searched the net and found quite a lot about NPD and psycopathic behaviour. There are reams of information to be found if you search. There are also quite a few sites with forums where people can tell their own experiences with having been in relationships with NPD people.
@ Teachable and Victorious
Thank you so much for your postings you do not know how you have helped me. I was wondering why it has taken me so long to get over this man, he almost sent me over the edge i kid you not when looking back. But your comments have endorsed my observations after we split that NO i was not going mad, i was in the presence of a full blown NARCISSIST and i NEVER, EVER want to meet anyone like him again. These people are aliens, a race apart and evil personified. How can someone do this to another, and why do they get a kick out of bringing someone down after putting them on a pedestal. They truly are sick individuals and best left alone.