One of the reasons why I haven’t written directly about narcissists for some time (although I’ve covered the subject many times from different angles) is because there’s an overuse of the term: it can become a catch-all for anyone who behaves badly in a relationship. It’s also because there are so many dedicated resources out there, that I prefer to write about it in the context of BR’s ethos: living and loving with self-esteem and ultimately understanding ourselves and our choices better so that we break unhealthy patterns.
After numerous requests, here are twenty thoughts on narcissists (and the narcissistically inclined). My hope is that you experience a mindset shift that helps you to stop crazy-making yourself.
#1 All narcissists are emotionally unavailable but not all emotionally unavailable people are narcissists.
Narcissists are highly insecure, so their seemingly positive behaviour always disguises a hidden agenda. Sometimes they’re aware of their hidden agenda at the time. In other instances, your response makes them aware of something to exploit. Narcissists love to leverage power and control.
#4 It’s never about you with a narcissist.
This doesn’t mean that you don’t possess very attractive qualities and characteristics, but the overarching aim of a narcissist’s compliments and general activities is to boost his or herself. A narcissist liking something about you is really like saying, “Look at how well I’ve done!” This is something you will be familiar with if you have a narcissistically inclined parent. If you seemingly flourish under a narcissist’s charm and influence, they’ll see no problem in taking credit for your greatness and then discarding you to snatch it back. When they’re complimenting you, they expect you to reciprocate. And, yes, that’s even if you don’t mean it or you don’t know what you’re saying to be true. Who is the most likely to do that? Yep, a people pleaser. This is why Fast-Forwarding and the narcissist’s version, love bombing, are so successful.
Equally, if you put a foot wrong and basically are human, narcissists take that super personal too. They interpret your flaws and humanness as, wait for it, feedback that they’re human and flawed.
#5 Narcissists know that their persona and what you use to put them on a pedestal isn’t true.
On the one hand, they enjoy the adulation. On the other, however, they punish you for ‘mocking’ them even though it’s not what you’re doing. Or, because of their [hidden] low self-worth, you’re punished for being one of the “fools” who doesn’t see through them. Yeah, you can’t win.
Unless you are a narcissist yourself, don’t expect to get in their head. Don’t base your expectations of them on how you or other folk act either. You don’t speak the same language, so they don’t think, act or empathise in the way that you do. Accept what you know wholly and fully right now. Stop burning brain cells and bandwidth trying to figure them out or change them.
#7 Narcissists are masters at building arguments on grains of truth.
They defend the grains with a ferocity that makes it all too easy to forget logic, never mind reality and the actual truth.
#8 Narcissistically inclined is a good enough reason to go.
Or, why split hairs over them having four instead of the five?
Or why wait to see if five becomes more?
Most narcissists are undiagnosed because, yeah, um, they’re narcissists! They’re not exactly rushing to sit in a therapist’s office. Even if they did, they’d lie. They’d claim that the therapist said there’s nothing wrong with them and that it’s everyone else.
Yes, therapists can be charmed by narcissists, too!
Narcissists often function well professionally and socially where persona, charm, surface knowledge, status and even aggression are valued. But boy oh boy do they come unstuck in close interpersonal relationships. Why? Because the more time you spend with a narcissist, the more you see and the more they see. You pose a threat to their carefully crafted persona. That, and they get high on the power and control.
Just because they’re undiagnosed, it doesn’t mean that they’re not a narcissist or problematic. Don’t make the mistake of using lack of diagnosis or denial masquerading as doubt, to opt back in. You don’t need to prove that someone is 100% narcissist or 100% toxic in order to get out! Why would you wait until your broken leg was falling off to go to hospital?
#9 Stop pumping the empty empathy well and putting your bucket down there!
Time and again I talk to people who are so trapped in their feelings that they haven’t stepped back and connected the dots with their past. They’re trying to right the wrongs of the past. One reader shared her story of torment with me last year, and within a few minutes, I uncovered that this narcissistic neighbour represented old pain from her abusive uncle. The light bulb finally went on.
#10 Pursuing the love of a narcissist is like looking for the 50th Wonder of the World.
Yeah, it doesn’t exist. And to get to love, there would need to have been quite a few other “wonders” including empathy, compassion, integrity, a conscience, to name but a few. Narcissists don’t love; they admire and compete. They charm.
Pursuing a narcissist says that you’re looking for love with an outside chance of happening.
Pain and love have become intertwined and you’re setting you up to fail. On some level, you believe that you can only be loved under highly exceptionable circumstances. Yep, making you “special” again. Trying to be the exception to the rule is a way of trying to right the wrongs of the past. It’s like “If I can make them love me; if I can earn their love, it will cancel out the old hurt and loss. I will finally be worthy.” You are and always have been worthy of love though. You don’t need the narcissist.
#11 Narcissists cannot keep up the act that they presented in the beginning.
They’re highly insecure, but also, how can they discard you after building you up if they don’t change?
There isn’t a solution or magic bullet to “fixing” their narcissism. All the people pleasing in the world won’t make them become who they presented as at the beginning or during the ‘good times’. You might get it temporarily, but not permanently or for any significant length of time. It will also never be what it was in the beginning because, well, it’s not the beginning. That would require you living in total delusion (don’t do it). Trying to fix a narcissist just delays and blocks your exit from the cycle of disappointment and abuse. Even when you’re unaware of who they really are or what they’ve been up to, they are communicating their true selves.
They act out and punish you (it might be more subtle passive aggression or betrayals behind your back initially) as if you have done something. In reality, they know based on their pattern, that they’ve done something wrong. They inadvertently and directly sabotage out of fear. Narcissists have an “eat or be eaten” mentality, so they attack you first so that you don’t have the strength left to query it or fight back.
#12 A narcissist knowing that you desire them or are in pain is as good as having you.
The narcissist doesn’t need to come back to somebody who is 1) still chasing him/her or competing with the harem despite being discarded or 2) consumed by what [the narcissist] did to such a degree that it’s obvious that they haven’t moved on. The more practised they are at their bullshit, is the more secure a narcissist is in these assumptions. Why? Knowing that they can have you is as good as having you.
It’s twisted, but it’s like you being affected by them legitimises why they think it’s OK to act as they do.
That’s not because it’s true: it’s warped logic. Narcissists can’t account for their own actions (no empathy, don’t take responsibility), so they blame the victim for being the victim or for not seeing through them. It’s as if being loved or wanted is that person’s ‘weakness’.
#13 Narcissists bail so that they can control the narrative and protect their ego.
They will make a sudden exit or bail (possibly after telling you all about yourself complete with lies or distortions, or after having been caught out). Why? Because you can’t argue back. The ego (and story) they tell themselves remains intact.
If they spread lies, it’s to trash you to get ahead of your story (to discredit you). The ‘clever’ thing is that when they think you still really want them or are reliant on them, the possibility of them returning becomes a way of silencing you from speaking up (because you don’t want to endanger it). Of course, when they don’t come back or do but wreak even more destruction than last time, it feels incredibly wounding to have played nice.
#14 Anyone can be attracted to a narcissist; we’ve all felt attraction to someone who we did not know yet.
Narcissists are also very good blenders, charmers, and performers. That said, if you stick around or this is part of a pattern, rather than blame you for their shady behaviour, take a closer look at any unresolved issues that you may or may not be aware of. When you do, you can and will break the cycle.
#15 Recognising a narcissist for what they are will reveal the truth about someone else.
Our experiences invite us to see what we couldn’t see before. It will hurt to recognise a narcissist’s behaviour because it explains a significant person from your past’s behaviour. You might feel disloyal, not to them (the narcissist) but to the parent or significant person who originally inspired this disproportionate need for validation.
It also dismantles a lies that you may have built your whole life around: that this is love. That this is how you earn love. That your “pleasing” will make someone be and do as you want or change your feelings about you.
You might also find it hard to admit because it reveals that you are in a child role or that you were deeply attracted to how things look (the fantasy). It may be that there’s shame around having liked someone who’s proven to be slim on character. It’s admitting all of these concerns that’s the beginning of ceasing the crazy-making, though.
#16 If someone has bombed your existence or hijacked your reality, they’re an assclown.
Call them a narcissist, a sociopath, a psychopath, or whatever you want to call them. Non-disordered people don’t decimate your life and then feign ignorance at why you’re upset or show no remorse. If you’re going to invest time, energy, effort, emotion and *money* into understanding them, do so to understand how to get away and to heal, not to try and diagnose and justify your way back into a toxic relationship.
#17 Narcissists reflect the need to love yourself.
“If you like the way I look that much, oh baby you should go and love yourself”. The narcissist’s version of Justin Bieber’s ‘Love Yourself’, haha.
The job of a narcissist is to hold a mirror up to your dire need for genuine self-love. Stop looking for a share of someone’s exaggeration.
A narcissist cannot truly love or empathise. You might think that their crumbs and “good times” are amazing, but when you look at what you’re actually getting (or not getting), you realise that the emperor has no clothes on. What you experience is very surface and going through the motions.
Narcissists come unstuck because they’re the equivalent of actors who play the role by acting what they think the character is like.
The best actors are the ones who live and breathe the character, thinking about what that character would think, say and do — and then doing these to become the character. In the real world, people who have strong character and learn to embody their values are able to due to consistently be-ing and do-ing, not just rolling it out for an agenda.
Narcissists fall short because they can play at the charming stuff but they are unable to do the actions of character, intimacy, commitment etc.
#18 A narcissist forces you to heal old pain, fear and guilt.
Similar to what affairs do, relationships with narcissists are like exorcisms that force every ugly feeling, thought and hidden issue out of you. These experiences awaken you to the truth of your struggle and how you’ve been too hard on you. They force you to see the truth about a person from your past. They force you to stop acting like a kid and acting from a place of fear.
If you’re unaware of or ignoring a blind spot or pattern(s), a narcissist will force you to finally recognise it with no equivocations.
This is, though, as long as you see the pain of what is going on for what it is rather than hankering for more of it and trying to get him/her to go back to when you didn’t know who they were. Going back to a narcissist or, in fact, any toxic or shady relationship is like say that was wrong for you is right. It invites more pain into your life until you’re ready to learn from the experience. When you stop trying to right the wrongs of the past and see your connection to the narcissist for what it is, this person rapidly loses their power.
#19 It will become difficult, if not impossible for you to return to the relationship.
Eventually, the pattern of a toxic relationship breaks down in such a way that it’s made too difficult for you to return to something that is going to hurt you. This is when you start over.
If you see the relationship as the sign to know, like and trust yourself more, you will rebuild your life without the opening for a narcissist.
#20 A narcissist will force you to learn true empathy and compassion.
You have the capacity to love, to empathise, to recognise right from wrong and truly connect with other humans. Yes, you do! The spiritual task of the narcissist is to force you to become responsible for you. To own, understand and love you. It is only by doing so that they (and the pain) go away and you finally become open to experiencing real, sustainable love from within and outside of you.
If you’ve been (or you suspect you have been) involved with a narcissist, please ensure that you not only get professional support if you’re finding it difficult to exit the relationship or figure out how to move on, but that you also share your struggle with a trusted loved one so that you stop being isolated in the chaos of your involvement.
Thank you so very much Natalie. You’ve helped me so much with my on going recovery from my toxic, destructive relationship/entanglement through your books and blog posts. Without your wisdom and guidance I dread to think what would have happened to me. Thank you.
Mae
on 01/03/2016 at 12:41 am
Thank you. I’ve been doing a bit of reading the past few days about different types of narcissism, and I’ve finally been able to put a name to the kind of behavior and treatment I experienced at the hands of my ex. It makes me feel better to be able to identify it, up until now it’s just seemed to be this intangible, indescribable ‘something’ that made me feel isolated, belittled, and unloved. So this article is very timely, and is one I’m sure I’ll revisit from time to time.
Marian
on 01/03/2016 at 3:11 am
Hello Mae,
I completely empathize as well as sympathize with what you’re going through. I went through a horrible narcissistic experience three years ago. I felt like my world was shattered into a million bits. I couldn’t understand what had happened or why. I felt like I was losing my mind and would never recover. In fact, I was unfamiliar with the term “narcissist” until I was describing to my mother what I experienced and she said this man sounded like a narcissist based on what she learned watching a program about it. All I can say is educating myself helped a lot initially and in time I was able to come to terms with the hard truth. He was a man who played a role, incapable of genuine love. But what I’ve learned is that he showed me “myself” and the deep core wounding that had been there long before him. I poured over information. Sam Vaknin has a great book called Malignant Self Love. What I can’t stress enough is the importance of No Contact. At all. No Facebook. Nothing. There’s no other way to allow your emotions to settle down so you can sort though the trauma. Best of luck on your healing journey Mae.
Mae
on 01/03/2016 at 1:46 pm
Good luck to you too, Martian. Knowing that we aren’t crazy, that we were being manipulated and mistreated makes all the difference. Being unable to put your finger on what exactly was happening, but knowing that we were being damaged, hurt, and unhappy is so frustrating. Especially when these guys appear to everybody else to be ‘catches’. It isn’t until you get close enough to them to see who they really are, and have them turn on you, that you see they’re no catch at all.
Marian
on 01/03/2016 at 10:35 pm
Also Mae, Melanie Tonia Evans is a narcissistic abuse recovery expert. She has videos on YouTube and also sends out news letters as well as weekly podcasts that are really helpful. So just google her and you’ll find a wealth of information that will help you sort through your trauma. She has tons of radio shows on Blogtalk Radio that are phenomenal! Best of luck to you Mae.
Mae
on 02/03/2016 at 2:22 am
Thank you for the recommendation, I’ll check her stuff out. Best of luck to you, too 🙂
Haley
on 01/03/2016 at 12:59 am
All I can say is “wow” Natalie. This is one of your most powerful posts ever, hit me right in the gut, where I needed it. Every single thing you wrote rang true for me. I grew up with a borderline personality disorder mother and despite knowing that I am replaying this dynamic with men, I have not been able to break the pattern, but I think I’m on the cusp of being able to stop doing this to myself.
I’ve been thinking…when you see the narcissist as they really are and they know it, and the mask is off and you still love them, that’s the real ending. I think because they really do not like themselves, seeing us “love” them makes us repulsive to them, since they do not love themselves and feel bad. Isn’t that why they have to do all the charming, acting, etc? Does this sound right? I was seeing the real person who was unsuccessful in his profession, despite an Ivy League education and impressive past career experience (and communicated this knowledge), a less-than dad of a teenager, and a partner who was “kicked to the curb” and “no longer wanted” by his last girlfriend. This is the same person who I’ve heard misrepresent himself on phone calls and on social media as a together attorney and artist, to acquaintances and old, out-of-touch friends…someone who comes across as the most confident, sexy guy but no woman would really want him if they knew he was living with a roommate in an apartment with another guy at the age of 54. They just see him as he acts — but I know who he is — and still wanted to be with him. That’s why I got ditched. What the hell was I thinking?
I’ve been feeling so sad about my most recent ending but now I starting to see it as a blessing, in that I can heal my wounds from childhood and be with a man who can actually be present, which is what I want so much. Thank you so much for this post Natalie!
Haley
on 01/03/2016 at 1:33 am
I just wanted to add the that the things I said about this last guy are things he told me. He told me he didn’t feel like a good dad, that he did not want to work as an attorney anymore (and was doing side jobs basically, while trying to sell his paintings), and had been kicked to the curb. He said I was lucky to have my current job and a second job offer — he had no real job. When I said that the new home I purchased was not perfect but was all I could afford he said it was more than he had (he has a roommate). The sad thing is I was left feeling like a loser at the end of it, when he kissed me goodbye one morning not to be heard from again. I don’t judge people based on material possessions or career success — but it’s like he hated me for being that way…
Suki
on 02/03/2016 at 12:18 pm
Material possessions and career success is one thing… Living with roommates and having no real job is another. (Sounds like he might have been trying to get out of paying support).
And you don’t have to judge them for it. Nor do you have to pander to them by having them in your life. It shows a lack of planning for life and a lack of drive – everyday life needs drive. Relationships need drive. If the person is used to copping out and settling for the minimum and that’s not how you live, then where’s your common ground? Where are the shared values?
Although again – it seems he was judging you for having your values which make you happy and productive. Why can’t you judge him back?
Sam
on 01/03/2016 at 4:21 pm
Haley,
They are masters of deception! My ex-narc was a charmer and claimed he wanted to be an attorney. Never mind he didn’t graduate from college let alone law school. He had to move from his apartment because he couldn’t afford it without a roommate, had no car and barely had a job. But yet he could do better than me. In essence, he was just an insecure little boy who had to dump on people to make himself look good.
Marie
on 01/03/2016 at 1:15 am
Perfect timing, Natalie. I’ve been reading all week about Narcissists and had a big session today with my therapist on this very topic. Everything I’ve read, including your post tonight could be a portrait of my ex. This is all helping me feel my self-esteem gradually return, and to let go of the incessant questioning, ruminating and re-hashing. It explains so much, but is very sad. He is a damaged soul.
Thank you very much.
Ganesha
on 01/03/2016 at 1:44 am
So powerful. You really are gifted. Many of your articles put words to what I’ve felt before in previous situations which helps to bring it into perspective so much better. Thank you ????????
Karen
on 03/03/2016 at 9:19 am
I think Natalie has metaphysical gifts she pours into her assessments. I have noticed before that in one post she will give as much information as I’d get from reading four books. She has definitely helped me go from victim to angry enough for no contact, to I’m not angry but if we have contact I will be in about 5 minutes, and finally to this stage: I was re-reading a few back pages in my journal (after age 60, I swear you won’t recall what shoes you have on unless you look) and I found a quick note I’d scribbled in a margin, ” Hey, I’ve forgotten to think about ___
for a few days now. 🙂
Tiffany R.
on 01/03/2016 at 2:09 am
This was one of your best posts yet! I like how you included insight to narcissistic behavior, how to respond to this behavior, AND what it teaches us. This is so well-rounded and I LOVE IT! My ex was at the least narcissistically inclined, and the relationship/breakup was one of the most painful of my life. However, it shook me awake, causing me to pay attention to the pain and learn where I need to love ME better. Love, love, love it girl! Your posts are brilliant! 😉
Liz
on 01/03/2016 at 2:14 am
Thanks for this, Natalie. Very timely for me as well. I was completely heartbroken this fall after breaking it off with one following some ridiculous and disrespectful behavior from him. He of course was mad at me for ending it, totally disregarding my reasons for doing so. He trashed me to mutual friends, making me out to be crazy, insecure, unstable, etc. Unfortunately I didn’t fully break, which led to exactly what you described above — me taking all the blame for things and him stringing me along, feeling confident just knowing I was “there.” It was only when I pulled back in December and stopped responding to his emails because I couldn’t take it anymore that he switched gears and started to turn back on the charm and, when I kept ignoring, eventually asked me to meet him in person. Luckily by this point I had had enough distance to get clarity and break the hold he had over me, so I didn’t go for it.
These people are manipulative and toxic and cause a world of pain. I felt off balance our entire relationship once the initial pursuit ended, which will be a big red flag going forward. I agree that they drudge up all sorts of things about yourself, which is helpful to learn. Taking the focus off him and his thoughts and feelings, and placing it on me was very difficult but a huge step in my recovery.
Kirsty
on 01/03/2016 at 2:18 am
Thanks Natalie. I’ve bought all of your books and read some of them several times, while extricating myself from a very toxic relationship with a narcissist. The experience with him has wounded me more than I ever realised, but it has also made me a lot stronger and getting into my second month of no contact with him (despite his rather half-arsed efforts!), I’m feeling stronger every day. He used to win me over with expensive holidays and extravagant gestures, but none of these made up for the day to day lack of respect, coldness, hot and cold, mind-screwing behaviour he used to exhibit towards me. Never, ever, ever again. I took him back several times and I will never do it again. Onwards and upwards and thank you Natalie, you have a great gift and have helped me more than you can know. Sincerely, thank you <3
Anari
on 01/03/2016 at 2:23 am
A narcissist broke my heart and shattered it to pieces a few years ago. You can see some of my comments on BR particularly on assclowns and hot and cold behavior. It was a whirlwind of chaos. It wasant until I was out that I reliazed I was involved in a narcissist relationship with theraphy confirming it.
Rebuilding after the relationship is very different than a typical heart break. With a narcissist so much gas lighting, crazy making, mirroring, lies and deceit occured that I didn’t know what was real and what was fake. Every story was made up- pathological at best.
A narcissist eats away at your self esteem and makes you feel that you’re lesser than without being so obvious about it. All I can say is that if something sets off a red flag listen to your hunches.
After years if theraphy and rebuilding I am leading a peaceful and wonderful life without him. Never think a narcissist changes for the other woman- it doesn’t happen and is a front. A narcissist cares only about their own self. They can’t feel emotion and don’t want to.
Go no contact, seek support and stick through the withdrawl symptoms as much as it hurts. The work you do on you in the end and when you reflect back and see how far you’ve come is so worth it.
In one way Im thankful this experience happened to me because I came out of it completely rebuilt, stronger, confident and an empowered woman.
Xoxo
yeshlee
on 02/03/2016 at 12:44 am
Very well said! I have been in the same boat as you and after 3-4 years of this crazy making, soul destroying relationship, I’m finally starting to love myself. To heal is to understand that when you choose yourself, them choosing you ceases to have value. It has been a life and death struggle for me–the lows are VERY low, but I’m on the up and up. He is still in my environment–I work with him–and he won’t stop his hot and cold, almost stalking behavior, but I’m creating a new life from the inside out. I’m so grateful to connect with other people who have been through this–it helps so much to know that we aren’t alone.
SusieQ
on 19/03/2016 at 1:13 am
Yes it isn’t until you finish a relationship with what you find out later has been with a narcissist/sociopath that you wonder what happened to you! They future fake, treat you like a princess and put you on a pedestal and then comes the dropping of the mask, the lies, deceit, cheating, bringing you down by passing odd comments about your looks, behaviour or anything they think they can get away with. The one I went out with for 3 years, I didn’t know he was narcissistic until he disappeared on me out of the blue without saying goodbye which left me totally bewildered. I caught up with him eventually and he treated me with total distaste as if he had never set eyes on me in his life. I was in shock to think someone who had shared my life, my family, my bed and professed to love me could just shut any memory of me and walk away.
It has taken me a long time, many crying times, and getting my head round how I could have been taken in by someone like him, but after reading up lots of literature about personality disordered people I am now on the right track. Having said that, I cannot bring myself to start another relationship with a man and I really believe no contact is the way to go. This website has been such a help in my search to save my sanity – thank you!
Lou
on 21/03/2016 at 12:33 pm
I’ve written on a few sites recently following a very dramatic and soul destroying discard from someone whom i considered was the complete love of my life.
I had almost six years of him controlling me, keeping me in his life for which I now know, only to fuel his ego. I believed he loved me, trusted that he’d never hurt me. We are both married, and against all my morals, ended up in a very deeply emotional relationship, physically at intermittent periods, always extremely obsessively on his part. I was future faked, lied to, strung along with constant declarations of love. I never knew from one day to the next if we were lovers or just buddies. He would triangulate his spouse, tell me it was hell living with her, then flip and talk fondly of the meal she cooked him the night before.
I was in a bad marriage, devoid of any intimacy, he knew this and used it to fuel his ego/ cause my frustration. There were too many red flags and things he did/ said for me to mention. He instilled very deep love and a very strong fear of losing him into me.
When he started telling me it was me he wanted to be with I planned everything in my head, then he decided he couldn’t leave because she was unstable with depression ( no surprise there) but still kept promising our time would come soon. I was absolutely besotted with him.
I finally started seeing that he didn’t really mean any of it although his constant contact was very easy to believe, it was obsessive.
When I finally began feeling like just a convenience and realised that promises of things getting better were not actually happening, I questioned him on whether it should just stop.
Only days later I got his reaction full force. Testing my intentions, told me his wife knew but didn’t care as shed wanted out for years, then it all flipped and I started getting slanderous threats against my family.
I have PTSD, been in therapy for nearly four months. No one has confronted me face to face, only threatened on social media and text. Then weeks later it started again.
I can’t describe what I went through, I confessed my part to my spouse the first week, so home life was hell whilst I waited to be confronted. I also went through withdrawal symptoms waiting to hear from him. He’d cut me off and sat back whilst the abuse was hurled at me, he’d apparently told her it was a short lived very sexual fling, denying anything emotional, six years worth.
I was and still am devastated that this has all come from someone who obsessively claimed to love me, and only me.
Now I’m coming slightly out of the fog, I believe he has done this all himself, and that he did so because I wasn’t buying his fantasy any more.
I said I’d take it further if I had any more threats, then both of them completely disappeared from social media, very odd for a spouse who wanted answers, to block me so I couldn’t reply? I didn’t want to believe anyone could be this cruel, but I never heard from him again, he didn’t even have enough respect for me to tell me he couldn’t do this anymore, and spoke casually by accident on the phone asking if I was okay. That says he would have given no closure, and wanted me to stay around with my adoration.
I let him know how he’d made me feel still feeling deep love for him, but knowing that I could never go back after he left me drowning and discredited and shamed me….all for things he did as well. He was happy for me to take blame and shame for everything.
I also for my own future sanity, let him know it was over, and have never heard from him since.
I feel like I’ve been in a massacre, panic attacks, waking up crying uncontrollably and don’t know if it will end.
I know I probably deserve it, but no one understands how deeply the grooming goes. I was a very confident person before I met him.
Also need to add that I’m married to a narcissist of the covert kind, and despite my honesty, he won’t leave, because ‘I belong to him’
I will be that person again.
Ash
on 25/04/2016 at 7:22 am
Thank you for these words. I needed to hear them today. x
Wonderful articulation of all the terrible traits it seemingly takes years to understand or even believe possible from the one that feigned so much goodness once upon a time. You poignantly said the word is over-used and that’s sadly true. But for the true demented and disordered it isn’t about name calling or even categorizing. Its about finding understanding, being able to constructively connect the dots of truly empty shallow thoughtless crude behaviors by learning the characteristics that apply. Does that make sense? After these past five years of roller coaster rides and eventual healing (with your help), you begin to wonder if anything makes sense anymore. My needling question is: what could have helped us recognize and accept the trait sooner? I was even told by a psychiatrist who used the words “emotionally unintelligent” and I still didn’t quite perceive the depth of what was going on? I don’t know how I could have been so blind; and yet I see it so often now in others who perpetually accept the crumbs, accept the excuses and wait for the original Mr. Wonderful to return. But he never does. Thank you again.
Jay
on 01/03/2016 at 5:02 am
Thank you Nat. I needed to read this today. I’ve been wondering for the last few months if my ex was actually a narcissist and after reading this I think he was. This guy charmed the hell out of me to the point of almost being phony. I just thought that was his personality and he was such a “great guy” and foolishly told him that too. When it came time to prove himself, he discarded me like trash…literally from one day to the next. It happened so fast, it made my head spin. He had just taken me out the night before and was still playing the part of the great guy. I thought everything was fine. He was a great actor.
The next day he broke up with me, saying such cruel things to me. I didn’t even know who I was talking to! NO EMPATHY WHATSOEVER…Part of me thinks he somewhat enjoyed it. I could tell in the careless way he said things. He would even “sigh” during that convo at times as if I was such an annoyance to him. There was even a little “laugh” in the beginning. I couldn’t make this stuff up! He just didn’t care.
Til this day he has never contacted me, just abandoned me. I stupidly contacted him after the fact and even wrote a letter thinking I would somehow get closure for myself or get it off my chest. It felt good but only temporarily. I don’t necessarily regret contacting him but overall it was a waste of time if that makes any sense? This situation affected me to the point where it scares the hell out of me to trust anyone again. I’ve always been very resilient, even after bad relationships…not this time. At the time I just wanted to lay down and die… I really did because it hurt so bad. Sounds dramatic I know but it’s the truth. I’m better but even now the thought of having a relationship causes me to tense up.
Not to sound bitter but it really disgusts me that I was cuddling up to someone who could do that to me. The sad part is if I had the chance to get revenge and do this to him…I still wouldn’t do it. I can’t say for sure he was a narc or sociopath but he sure played the part of one. If one thing stands out, it’s definitely lack of empathy.
Jay
on 01/03/2016 at 5:09 am
I forgot to add that he did a fantastic job In making me feel like what “he” did was somehow my fault. I blamed myself for months and there’s only so much of that you can do. It’s exhausting.
Sophie
on 01/03/2016 at 6:10 am
I dated a man for a year and a half. He was the most charming, “perfect” guy. My friends loved him, my parents loved him..I loved him…he was amazing. Then one day I came home from being out and he proceeded to scold, taunt and shame me. This behavour was so stunning, so completely out of character, I’m ashamed to say I didn’t walk straight out the door. Instead I slept on it. I tried to speak to him of it, he told me he would not apologize and this went on for weeks. When I wouldn’t stop bringing it up, wouldn’t stop asking to talk about it. He just shut the door. Told me he needed a month apart. Again, I should have walked out the door, but I didn’t. I waited around for a month. We met and he had a bag full of everything I had left at his place. All tossed in with no care and a receipt for a recent hotel we had stayed in on a recent vacation neatly folded on top (apparently he expected me to pay up my share). He proceeded to tell me that he had though a lot on why he had lashed out the way he had that night. He now realized that the true issue was that I “didn’t touch him enough”. I didn’t rub his feet (yes, he actually used that example) and I just wasn’t tactile enough for him and it just “wasn’t who I am” so there was no point in trying to make it work. He also claimed our sex life was not passionate enough. He asked me if I had ever heard that from another boyfriend before ! I was devastated, I was furious and I was gutted. You see, I had thought we were very affectionate, and our sex life was great. Was I crazy? Had I imagined it all? It has taken me a year to recover from this complete devastation. I thought this was the guy I was going to have children with, grow old with. I am shaken by the fact that I never saw any of this coming. How could I have been so wrong? Of course, now I see that this man is emotionally unavailable and maybe even a bit of a narcissist. A year it has taken me, but I see now I have learnt and grown. I feel, I will not so easily fall for the mask again.
Maya
on 01/03/2016 at 11:42 am
I now consider ‘charm’ a red flag. Any human being with a heart or conscience wouldn’t behave like your ex. Consider yourself lucky you didn’t marry him – the pain of being discarded then would be far worse. You had a lucky escape – may not seem that way. Love yourself and find someone worthy of you. He is crazy – not you.
Bee
on 01/03/2016 at 7:27 am
Thank you for this great post. I do find myself being stuck in a difficult situation of moving on from a relationship with a narcissistically inclined ex. We began dating back in 2010 and from the start he was very confused about the relationship we had. He was the one confessing to the relationship, yet he was also the one that after a month of seeing each other made remarks about the limitations of the relationship. I remember I was in the process of getting over an ex when him and I got together. I was very honest and expressive about my life and emotions from the start and I also remember sharing details of my life with him that I would otherwise not have shared with anyone else. Months after, I felt as if my past was being used against me. This could have been that I was also emotionally insecure, being anxious and scared of going through yet another break up. He didn’t help me much and more than anything added to my anxieties. He was a good person but oh so emotionally unavailable. More and more issues would arise, such as his need to see his ex, his flirtatious behaviour with his girl friends, and his need to be distant from me. I broke up with him once, took him back after he begged for nearly a month and after or reconciliation he became much worse. We had less fights but every once in a while he would tell me hurtful things. He used my genetic and family history against me by telling me we won’t be able to have a normal future, get married, or have children. He was very much under the influence of his parents. I should mention I am a cancer survivor and such remarks were damaging on a fundamental level. He also told me that my body was unattractive to him because of my “cellulites”. He lack in proper communication and often had angry outbursts which then we said because of me. I do admit to my anxieties, anger, and fear, which came through in the form of protesting behaviour (name calling i.e. you’re a coward, complaining, giving him the cold shoulder, and feeling resentment towards him). He also told me time to time that I was a burden for being highly sensitive. I started seeking counselling which then opened my eyes to the possibility of our relationship being toxic. I was told he has narcissistic tendencies, while being in essence a good person, his avoidance and lack of healthy communication at times of conflict, mean remarks, and withdrawn from our relationship every once in a while were red flags. I was also told I have codependency issues. My friends and therapist persuaded me to break up. I eventually broke up with him after 5 and a half years in September 2015. However, I find that after two months of no contact, I found myself back talking to him every once in a wile through text or phone. I saw him three times since. I now feel really broken. I feel regret, shame, guilt, hopeless, and I for some reason wish to resume a relationship with him. In the last 5 months of the relationship, my ex tried to persuade me into staying with him by apologizing and making attempts at seeing a counsellor, but I was too fed up to stay. I was angry and could not stand him. I am at aw of this state I am in after 6 months of break up. Why am I longing for that person and why am I stuck thinking of wanting a relationship with him? I told him I wish to give things a try, but he repeatedly mentioned he is confused and would like to figure his life out. He is not a bad person and I still have attraction and love for him and for his essence. I feel like I wanted and needed time to forgive but I never expected to get here. after 6/7 months, I am not sure how to proceed with my life, moving on, and letting go of a relationship and person that didn’t serve me and my needs. I don’t know why I still love him despite knowing we were toxic. He was my second serious partner and we met when I was 21 and when he was 22. I have tried dating others since the break up but they were unsuccessful. I feel like I am very bitter and have even questioned my sexuality. Through the process has been difficult, I have managed to take care of my needs. I picked up a new hobby, I take care of my body more, I eat well, I am now finishing up my master’s degree, have been spending more time with family and friends. I have also continued being in counselling which has helped me improve certain aspects of my life. I am just so confused about my break up and find myself battling the thoughts between staying broken up and getting back together, even when he tells me directly he is unsure and uncertain about our future. He does say he wouldn’t mind the thought of us being back but he needs to spend more time being separate before he can clear his head and decide. When I suggest no contact, he cries and begs me to not cut 100 percent contact. I hurt to see him sad and I also am tired of feeling hurt. I don’t like to just be in touch and have our dating and personal life on the side. I hate to be in a state of limbo, yet I myself find it difficult to complete cut contact. I even confronted him about this but he doesn’t agree with the no contact rule. There is a part of me that thinks my therapist and friends were wrong and I didn’t make the decisions from he bottom of my heart, and the break up has been a mistake. I’m not sure if I am the issue, if I am selfish and inconsiderate or if he is being manipulative and controlling even if he is not conscious of it and even if his intensions aren’t to hurt and break my heart. Any suggestions and advice with this emotional roller coater of emotions and heartbreak is really appreciated.
liz
on 01/03/2016 at 11:50 pm
Bee, even if you were the issue, do NOT go back to this relationship. You are so young and have a whole lifetime to find the right person for you, don’t waste that life with the wrong one, please. He found your body unattractive (sorry, that’s an unforgivable thing to say, and will be the excuse he uses when he cheats on you). You can’t have a future or marriage or kids because of some perceived problem that can’t be fixed – you can’t change your heritage – Nat has a great post on this. This man will continue making you feel inadequate. This man will never commit to you. If you think you were the issue he will use this to push you down even further and silence you. YOU must now commit to loving you, and cutting all contact with him. You cannot sort out your issues while you are having any kind of a relationship with him. Trust your friends. They can see what is happening from the outside. His hesitation to go back to you is actually giving you a lifeline. Back up, do not pass go, do not collect another 5 years of misery. He is not a good fit for you. X
Bee
on 04/03/2016 at 6:07 am
Thank you Liz for your comment. I have been making an effort not to check up on his social media, which has helped me immensely since Monday. He texted again though asking for help with something. It just baffles me how manipulative and narcissistic he can be after all the BS he said and did. I am at a better place since that conversation and can see that the relationship I had with him has left me traumatized and continues to if I allow it. It’s not all his fault, but my pain is real. I know I have to to this. The process as my therapist says is much like cleaning my system from an addictive drug. I’m trying my best to cleanse him out of life for good.
Marie
on 01/03/2016 at 9:22 am
I have always believed in the “no contact” rule after ending a relationship. November 2014,I opted to get off the last merry-go-round ride with obsessive narcissist I was dealing with.
. I was wasting my time and energy on someone that would never reciprocate anywhere near as to what I bring to the table. He continued to try to engage as narcissists cannot believe when someone is over them and their antics.
He would reach out to try to speak to me, which I ignored, but at one point part of me broke and I spoke to him. He gave me a half hearted apology and admitted he didn’t handle things right. I accepted his half witted apology and snapped out of it. Told him that I needed to go.
He continued a few more times to which resulted in me pretending to be a boyfriend that had intercepted the message telling him “she’s moved on and you should too”. Lol. It felt good, redeeming in way to know his ego was brought back down to reality. It’s sad that some give narcissists so much power for them to feel that they can do whatever.
Maya
on 01/03/2016 at 10:56 am
Nat, thanks so much for this post. It is timely for me when I am full of doubt. Sorry this is long. I left my husband after his abuse escalated last October after 18 months of marriage (smashed my phone when I rang my parents in a panic when he was screaming at me and falsely accusing me of meeting them when I was home late from my 12 hour on call, followed by pushing me then hitting my arms). I was left cut, bruised and shaken. There had been occasional ‘low level’ violence during our short marriage when he was angry – i was shoved, pinned against a wall, he threw a bottle at me that missed and bitten when he was drunk etc. I had rationalised it as ‘stress related’ or ‘he was too drunk to mean it’ as we had a lot going on with renovating a new home and he started a business. I had work stresses too. What concerned me more and left me a shadow of my former self was the emotional abuse. Every couple of months, he would get enraged for small ‘perceived insults’ that any reasonable person wouldn’t care about and would rage at me. Literally tear me to pieces and devalue me (things like, you’re lucky I’m here with you, you’re a waste etc) and I’d be left reeling. My confidence and self esteem got chipped away. I tried to raise my concerns that I thought he was emotionally abusive (Ironically as a GP means, deep down I knew what was happening and what constitutes abuse but his crazy making made me doubt myself) I was subjected to more anger, silent treatment for weeks and end up apologising to end the pain of his stonewalling. He said I was like vile women who make false allegations to the police about rape and abuse. I was grateful when he would ‘go back to normal’ and now see that i was never quite the same – he was never sorry, it was always my fault. He would threaten to end the marriage if ever conflict came up. He never agreed to couples counselling as I was the problem. I became a bit of a nervous wreck.
Three long painful and tough months passed after the violence escalated and we separated. What scared me was his initial complete lack of remorse and empathy. He didn’t contact me and didn’t care that his wife didn’t come home for the first week. I was too scared and broken to go home and couldn’t handle him blaming me again for his behaviour and minimising what happened. Everything was always my fault. He apologised and cried, brought flowers and promised to change once my father went round to talk to him and his parents found out (he was the golden child -oblivious to his dark side). I was shocked and confused as the entire time we had been together, I never saw him seem genuinely sorry any time he hurt me. I didn’t trust him. After that, he agreed to move out as I said I wanted space – he said he wanted to work it out with me and said all the times he threatened to leave me, he didn’t mean it. I said actions, consistency and honesty would show me if we could be together again and said he needed to see a therapist which he agreed (advised to tell the truth about his dark side not a version to make himself feel better) and sort out his drinking too (aggressive and abusive more with alcohol). The next 6 weeks he was trying to talk on the phone once a week and get back in the house but each time he was Backtracking and minimising about his violent. He took weeks to see a therapist. I broke down on the phone to him when he kept changing his story and denying how serious his abuse was. I kept saying I couldn’t take the mind games and just wanted honesty and consistency before I could even think about seeing him again. He never was the guy who apologised that first week, though I wished he was. He then started seeing a therapist and backed off with no explanation and when we finally met some 8 weeks after the violence, it was about ‘how unhappy HE is’ and not sure what he wanted. The entire marriage already was all about HIM and his needs and controlling me. His anger towards ME and how I didn’t act or do what he wanted was the theme. I couldn’t understand how after everything he did, he was turning it around to be about him again. I guess that’s a narcissistic for you. I was strong the first 6 weeks and then when he starting pulling back, I felt crushed again. He was succeeding in getting back in control again. Why did I want him to love me? I was ready to leave after he hit me and it was HIM who asked for a chance. My counsellor said it was like I was asking a man with no arms to catch a ball when I asked where his empathy was. Before Christmas, I thought we connected and seemed like there was a shift, he told me he still loved me and wanted to wait a bit longer when I said it seemed there was nothing left and he said he wanted to keep in touch over Christmas. He then made no effort again and it seemed to be a misunderstanding. I then I got a guilt trip. The mind games were making me feel awful and anxious. In the new year I said we should go for marriage counselling or end it as I refused to go back to the type of marriage we had and we had made little progress. The limbo was awful. I didn’t ever want to be scared of him again. He agreed to go for couples counselling after a few weeks, still adamant that he wanted to ‘work it out’ yet his actions suggested otherwise as he barely contacted me or made effort. I felt so down and knew in my heart there was nothing left yet part of me hoped for a miracle, wanted him to come good on all the promises he made when we first separated. I didn’t want a divorce, start again with all my dreams shattered. I wanted him to be the guy I Fell in love with who I married. We had a home, the next step was babies. To the outside world, he was amazing: handsome, charismatic and friendly with a good job.
I saw his car outside our home and called him to finalise our meeting and he didn’t bother to call back for over 24 hours. I felt disrespected again and called to find out why he didn’t return my call yet again after we discussed the importance of gaining trust and respectful communication. He made excuses and clearly lied. I told him we needed to meet the following day and have a serious talk and when I said that, he said I was worrying him and what about. I reassured him and said we should meet face to face. He cancelled the day we were meant to meet with a text stating he had to go out of town suddenly to see his parents and would call later. I was concerned my father in law was sick. I sent a message that night saying I was worried when I hadn’t heard from him. The following day he said sorry for not calling and what time was I free. I was in the middle of my surgery and had a break and said to call me then as I was worried about my father in law.
He rang to say it was ‘over’ and he had seen a solicitor who had said ‘not to talk to me’. I was stunned. I asked him what he had done? He talked completely devoid of emotion, like the separation had been his idea. I was so shocked, I couldn’t understand how he was ending our marriage on the phone. He said ‘I didn’t admit anything to anyone’ – it was so chilling and callous. It was the most traumatic event of my life. He had discarded me like I was nothing. Next thing I knew, I received a divorce petitioner on email which had been filed with the courts so I had no way to ask for amendments – he stated, I was the aggressor and that he left our home after false allegations. I was sick to my stomach. I had been told so many times to go to the police and report him but due to our careers, love and hope it would work out, hadn’t had the guts. A solicitor friend urged me to report what he had done as I was left in a vulnerable position with him having keys to our home. The police took it seriously as I had so much evidence about what had happened though medical records, texts and my diaries. It was clear the divorce petition was his ‘defence’ when I hadn’t even made an allegation in print and he was worried I was going to divorce him. Nat wrote the narcissist think ‘eat or be eaten’ and my husband had told me his mentality was ‘hunt or be hunted’! I feared he would hunt me and it seems he tried.
Now he is in bail. He claimed I assaulted him and he didn’t touch me, my phone slipped and fell. It’s farcical. I don’t know if the courts will charge him, he was arrested for assault, criminal damage and coercive control, a new law.
The divorce is on hold and I just want this to be over. This is my worst nightmare. I still have doubts that he is a narcissist believe it or not. I remember his parting words and that I brought out the worst in him and I am bad too. Did I push him to act in such a heinous way? I dream of him every night and feel so lost. I never thought the marriage would end so violently. I don’t know how I will get over this.
Claire A.
on 01/03/2016 at 12:06 pm
You didn’t bring out the worst in him or push him into reacting that way; you’ve just seen who he really is and who he’d eventually be with any woman. Isn’t he the one who was showing major red flags even when you were just going out? So that was the start of him showing his true nature – it’s just it ALL came out once he had ‘caught’ you in marriage.
Maya
on 01/03/2016 at 12:59 pm
Yes there were red flags but I was head over heels in love with him by then and had lost my virginity to him and thought he was ‘the one’, couldn’t have predicted in a million years it would have got so messy. I can’t help but question my contribution to this but I know I could never have acted the way he did it ever ‘discarded’ the way he did and tell one lie after another. Chilling. Can’t switch off. Keep thinking I’ll wake up and it will be a bad dream.
Claire A.
on 04/03/2016 at 11:36 am
Yes I know that you would have been head over heels after some time; but what I’m getting at is that some red flags would have been there *before* you got to the stage of sleeping with him, right? You said yourself further up that you now see charm as a red flag….which it usually is. There are always signs that you’re in the presence of a personality-disordered man. Even if he was appearing to be sweetness and light before you slept with him, charm itself often indicates that someone’s wearing a mask to try to get what they want out of you. When men try that with me it’s always counter-productive because it gets all my suspicions going and I get into detective mode.
All I’m meaning is that you obviously realise now for the future that it’s a case of needing to have your spidey senses operating on all cylinders before trusting someone – this all needs to be done in the early stages of dating. Good luck though with extricating yourself from this individual. I hope you’re going to hire a decent solicitor to help as sounds like your husband has taken the gloves off with his false accusations!
Maya
on 13/03/2016 at 1:03 pm
Thanks. He has now been charged and will be going to court, the gloves are off. I hope there will be justice.
Griselda
on 01/03/2016 at 4:50 pm
Maya, it was hard to read your account because it sounds so painful. You’re suffering from cognitive dissonance and maybe even a touch of PTSD after your bizarre experience. Please keep educating yourself on personality disorders like narcissism, this will help you along the road to recovery.
While I was educating myself on Cluster B personality disorders, I read something which sounded horribly blunt, but it hit me with a clue-by-four. A psychologist said something like — I’ll paraphrase heavily — ‘Psychopathic/Sociopathic personality disorder, like every other personality disorder, is PERMANENT and PERVASIVE. Let me explain. It doesn’t come and go, it doesn’t come in waves, it doesn’t get better or worse, it doesn’t happen sometimes in some situations and then not in others. It can’t be trained in. It doesn’t change. It affects their entire being, head to toe, inside and out, 24/7, forever. Hoping that a psychopath will somehow come to understand their condition, and then work to improve it or alter their responses and behaviour, is exactly like expecting a person with Down’s Syndrome to do the same thing. Impossible.’
Whilst many people with disorders such as Down’s can have limited capacity developing intellect, having a personality disorder does not necessarily affect intellectual development. This is why they can develop astonishing coping mechanisms which they use to train themselves to imitate empaths and be accepted in society, to trick and manipulate people, to get what they want — before inevitably finding themselves caught, cornered, flushed out, or just sick of the whole caper of pretending to feel things, to have a conscience, to dream, to behave acceptably. It’s a shock to find what’s underneath.
Maya
on 01/03/2016 at 9:25 pm
Thanks Griselda. I read your comment a few times to get it in my head. I think I do have a little PTSD and think I need to find a therapist who specialises in trauma. He and the situation has really got under my skin. It’s so bizarre and unreal. The tough part is accepting I fell in love with someone capable of creating so much havoc. Your last sentence said it all ‘before inevitably finding themselves caught, cornered, flushed out, or just sick of the whole caper of pretending to feel things, to have a conscience, to dream, to behave acceptably. It’s a shock to find what’s underneath.’
Paula
on 01/03/2016 at 9:40 pm
Griselda,
Have you read up on pro social psychopaths? I do not see them mentioned too often, but, essentially, they know they have a problem, they do not know empathy, but they learn to mimic the behavior. It can be so convincing!
Griselda
on 02/03/2016 at 6:14 pm
Hi Paula, and yes I have! Educating yourself about the behaviour of socio/psychopaths is fascinating and horrifying stuff, but a MUST-DO for any adult. An offshoot of the same personality disorder cluster, I think it’s fair to say, is the narcissist. We empaths need to get it into our brains that they do not choose or control their behaviour any more than small children do. We don’t expect a four year old to achieve the emotional and mental maturity of a 20 year old just because we explain to them again and again that we don’t want them doing four-year-old behaviour any more.
Crystal
on 01/03/2016 at 7:58 pm
Maya,
It doesn’t matter if he’s a narcissist or not. He’s abusive. That makes him a bad person. He won’t change. It’s not your fault. Those are facts.
You write as though you are a doctor. If you are, how would you counsel a patient that came to you telling you even half of the things you wrote about here? Or a good friend of yours? I expect you would try to firstly help ensure her safety by getting her away from the abuser. Then recommend counselling. It’s time to treat yourself the same way.
No woman ever expects or wants to be in abusive relationship. Being in one changes brain function. You can & will recover if you take the right steps. There is a lot of help out there for you if you look for it. Take care of yourself.
Maya
on 01/03/2016 at 9:16 pm
Thank you Crystal. Yes I am a doctor and when I was with him, I thought I should be able to fix the situation. I thought there is a small chance he can get help and we *might* be ok: I loved him and had high hopes when we married. No woman wants or expects to be an abusive relationship but I felt like such a failure for being in it. I have put too much emphasis on his words that ‘I brought out the worst in him.’ He said he had not had these issues with anyone else so the part of me that blames myself for being in this mess takes over. If my patient or a friend came in, yes I’d say leave, you’ll be ok, he won’t change. It’s not you, it’s him. It’s hard being on the other side and take that advice. I have got a counsellor just don’t seem to make much progress. I think it will take time to heal.
Crystal
on 01/03/2016 at 10:47 pm
Maya,
You are SO the opposite of a failure! It would be your impulse to fix things as a doctor. It’s a great impulse to have in your work. But you must also know that there are so many illnesses without known cause or cure. Perhaps it would help you to view him as such.
His issues far pre-date ever having met you. Most abusers have many behaviours in common. Lying is absolutely one of them! You “bringing out the worst in him” is one of his many lies. No matter how many times he says it, that doesn’t ever make it true.
It’s absolutely not something to get over quickly. It will take time & won’t be easy, but you can do it! You are progressing even if you don’t feel it yet. Emotional abuse is a tough one and the first steps to get over it will be small ones. Bigger ones will follow. You might want to try working on forgiving yourself too.
And remember, you’ve got this!
Maya
on 02/03/2016 at 2:12 pm
Thanks Crystal, really appreciate it. I have good moments where I feel stronger (especially when I come on here and read Nat’s points – it seems so obvious that he was disordered) and can feel low and deserted when I get home and have ‘nothing’. I am used to working at things. Now, I don’t have a tough marriage to work on, just a void and no closure which I am trying to get through working on my own. I will use that – think of him as ‘uncurable’! xx
AnnieB
on 20/03/2016 at 12:25 am
I have put too much emphasis on his words that ‘I brought out the worst in him.’ He said he had not had these issues with anyone else so the part of me that blames myself for being in this mess takes over.
That is a lie, my Narcissist was having difficulty having sex with me/ showing any kind of affection. And he said he couldn’t believe it, that it had never happened before.
Until one day he told me that it happened before with others, but since they were short term flings, none of the women brought up the significance of it.
So he is basically lying and putting the blame on you for pointing something out. He surely had the issue before you pointed it out.
Jackie
on 01/03/2016 at 11:02 am
This is a very toxic personality disorder and nothing healthy is really possible. The person is not essentially well. You are not dealing with someone interested in ever living in reality.
E
on 01/03/2016 at 11:46 am
Great timing. I have been doing an awful lot of reading on narcissists and sociopaths over the last few days and it seems that there are some key, but subtle, differences.
I have been involved with men in the past who fit the narcissist traits that NML describes here and, to be honest, I think they are preferable to dealing with a sociopath (which is what I strongly suspect the married man who I got tangled up with is) as interactions with Ns seem to have shorter lifespans.
Narcs are actually masking a very fragile sense of self esteem, so they’ll either discard you for new novel supply or, as NML says here, because they ultimately loose respect for anyone who actually likes them.
They can’t stand criticism though, so my experience of going NC on N men (like the type NML has described in this piece) is that they end up hating you when you go NC, because you refused to join the harem and play nice as a discarded source of supply who he has on layaway.
What’s more, if you try and call an N out on his behaviour pre NC, it pretty much guarantees that the N will really, really hate you and not want to engage with you further.
Sociopaths, however, are much rarer, and a bigger mind f***. They are similar to N’s, with the charm offensive in the beginning, which then changes, but a key difference with a sociopath seems to be that they are unafraid of pretending to apologise and play on your guilt/sympathy if it will get them what they want. Where an N would just respond to confrontation by discarding you because you’re not playing his game the sociopath will use a combination of faux apologies and guilt tripping, to the extent that you wind up feeling awful for even trying to cut them off and you find yourself apologising to them for your attempt to go NC.
I also like NML’s point about why care if the guy has full blown narcissistic PD, as recognising Narc traits should be enough to make you want to run.
I was admittedly splitting hairs by reading up on how sociopaths operate. Regardless of whether or not he is a full blown sociopath, me simply recognising that the MM (who I am trying to rid myself of) resorts to machiavellian levels of manipulation whenever I try and cut him off, should be enough to make me stick to going NC once and for all.
happy b
on 14/03/2016 at 4:51 pm
E, I think that’s spot on, explains a lot.
Janie
on 01/03/2016 at 2:03 pm
This is a wonderful article. I wasn’t going to comment on it, because I didn’t see an need to add anything more. I know that I’ve been extremely attracted to narcissistic types, that it has to do with my childhood, and, a bit uncomfortably, that *I* tend to exhibit narcissistic behavior sometimes. OK. Then, I watched a video comparing various Meyers-Briggs personality types. I know the types are not perfect, but if you have any interest in this psychology, I would suggest to watch out if you are an introverted feeler, especially INFP or ISFP. I am one, and these types experience our own feelings more loudly and clearly than the feelings of others, making empathy more challenging than for extravert feelers. It’s easy for us to get caught up in ourselves and our own feelings, and become narcissistic if things don’t go right. I thought that was interesting.
Sam
on 01/03/2016 at 4:16 pm
One of the worst things I noticed about narcissist is their lack of empathy. They can look you right in the face and do something hurtful and have absolutely no remorse for what they’ve done. I can’t imagine intentionally hurting sometime and then stand their and watch them cry and have no expression at all!
This is how I knew there was something deeply wrong with him! The ones that discard you for somebody else then have the nerve to try to comeback acting like nothing happened! No apologies at all.
The only time they ACT like they care is when you ignore them! Then all of sudden they want your attention. I bet they have the nerve to feel rejected once you stopped dealing with the b.s.. They are a piece of work. My advice IGNORE, IGNORE & IGNORE! They go away eventually.
The Wild One
on 01/03/2016 at 4:23 pm
I recently had my world turned upside down by someone who liked playing mind games with me. I don’t know if he was a narcissist but, so much of the commentary here resonates with me.
I am not ashamed to admit that he broke my heart. But the fact of the matter is that he did not value me, so I had to be ruthless. I finished what he started & shattered what was left of my heart by ignoring any further efforts of his to re-establish contact. It was one of the toughest internal battles I’ve ever fought but I could not back down. I knew that if I did, I would be dismissing who I was as a woman.
I know my worth & I will not allow anyone into my life who does not treat me with mutual respect. Sometimes, you must be brave enough to break your own heart.
Sadie
on 01/03/2016 at 4:50 pm
Mine is to thank you so much from the bottom of my heart for all the lives I believe you save through your writing, because I know you saved mine. This note s long overdue. I actually discovered your writing in 2009 while trying so hard to break free from a narcissistic man-at the time I didn’t understand what he was, couldn’t believe how he had changed to a monster, I couldn’t believe how I was doing things so out of character that I knew myself to be…all I knew is that I was in the process of literally going out of my mind, I could feel myself going madder each day and I had absolutely no one to talk to as I was living in another country with no family or friends close by. I wanted to die because being awake was just too painful and confusing. There I was scouring the internet for clues on what was going on and I found some helpful reading but when I saw yours I devoured your entire archive in just a few days and have looked forward to each piece eagerly. I learned from the articles what was going on and how to get away from such a person. It was through you that I was able to initiate No Contact and finally move on without wanting to go back ever again. He couldn’t believe it!! He kept calling every other time to see if I was still receptive of him until I returned to my country. You also helped me break free from a narcissistic friend whom I had at the same time and other situations as well. I apply your advice to all areas of my life, really. I can honestly say that after more than 5 years, I still have major trust issues but every day is one of recovery and you still help me. God Bless you so much and the day I came across your work
Griselda
on 01/03/2016 at 5:03 pm
Thanks to posts like this one, the world is becoming a better place. People are informed and informing each other about personality disorders. Being able to get educated, share information, to detect and identify the manipulation, the mind games, and predict the inevitable devastation before we allow it to happen, means we now have an advantage we never had before. Narcissists are going to find it impossible to get any booty under these conditions!
Claire A.
on 01/03/2016 at 6:13 pm
‘Narcissists are going to find it impossible to get any booty under these conditions!’
Unfortunately for every person who’s enlightened there are thousands more who aren’t though! I always wonder why, in the age of the internet with all the resources that brings, more people STILL aren’t well-versed on personality disorders etc.
Parker
on 01/03/2016 at 8:08 pm
I cut my narc off a few weeks ago. Now I heard he’s befriended the boyfriend of my good friend.
Should I be worried?
Jennifer
on 02/03/2016 at 1:58 am
Parker,
I would remain mum. You can never really control a person other than yourself. I would continue no contact and do not mention your past narc to your friend other than to politely ask that she not mention him unless it’s an emergency that regards your health. Stay away. Just be polite and absent about it (but not absent minded).
Jennifer
on 02/03/2016 at 1:56 am
Number 12 is chilling. As angry as I was with my ex, I don’t know that I ever wanted him to hurt. Someone getting off (even if it’s just a fleeting ego thing) on pain they have caused is so unbelievably unsettling and creepy.
happy b
on 14/03/2016 at 11:42 am
That’s what got me. With the vanity, boasting, search for validation, I could think, ‘ok this isn’t great, but might be a phase, he’s just had a big ego bruising, maybe he’s a bit of a tw*t, we’ve all got our flaws and he has many brilliant qualities’. But then appeared sadistic behaviour that is an absolute deal breaker. The bizarre, irrelevant put-downs – I care too much what others think, because I’m explaining to him what I did to improve my drawing?! The deliberate attempt to create insecurity and competition by talking of others who are giving the same things. It’s not our place to diagnose or label people, but very helpful to see there are names and explanations for these particular patterns of behaviour. I find it fascinating but my heart goes out to people living with it 24/7. I did once and took a long time to rebuild, I came out feeling like I was nothing. But now have the strength both to open my heart and take risks, and to quit when my values are in question. When it comes to narcs, knowledge is power!
Lenore
on 02/03/2016 at 3:12 am
I loved him so much. I believed in him. He was the love of my life and it was all a lie. He’s told me that he can’t feel empathy, that he has trouble with anger and most recently that he’s “never thought about the effect of my actions on the people around me.” He’s in his 40s and married with two kids and he’s never thought about the effects of his actions on others. I suffer from obsessive thoughts and ptsd. I think about him all the time even though I’ve cut him off and blocked him on every device. I work with him so he’s still in my life. He watches me all the time. He stares at me and studies me and has told me all the ways in which he watches me. I feel totally vulnerable. Everyone thinks he a wonderful person, a great guy, a wonderful family man. Behind the mask he’s kind of scary. I hate that I can’t get over him. After all these years (it’s been almost 4 years since this madness started) and I just can’t move on. The narcissist is a truly evil figure. If I had known I would have run away as fast as possible.
SusieQ
on 19/03/2016 at 3:39 pm
Thank you Lenore you have just expressed my thoughts entirely in a nut shell. I think this type of personality leaves you questioning your own mental stability. How can someone come into your life like a whirlwind, treat you like a princess and make you feel so loved up one minute and then dismiss you as if you never existed and got rid of like trash! It is now almost 6 years since my dismissal by the narcissist that I still, on occasion feel like it was all a dream! Unfortunately it became a nightmare and I will not let this damaged, sadistic non entity occupy my thoughts anymore.
Veracity
on 19/03/2016 at 3:51 pm
Just started really looking at the relationship between codependents and narcissists/disordered individuals. It’s truly frightening. They prey upon our weaknesses and vulnerability. Our reactions give them power over us and we end up unconsciously handing over our emotional selves to them. We re-enact an old familiar pattern.
I’m just coming to understand their sadistic conditioning and how it plays on my masochistic conditioning. Sam Vaknin, a self-proclaimed narcissist, stated that “what the narcissist seeks is the pleasure of your destruction.” Chilling stuff.
Thanks for sharing this video. Educational. You are right is is chilling. Some people play these type of games merely to destroy another human.
He said to perserve your health you just have to move on. I read back over Nat’s blog on narcissists. Wow.
MJ
Say Something
on 02/03/2016 at 3:56 am
Constant, sweet attention is replaced with dismissive silence.
You feel deeply connected, but then are discarded without warning.
The Best Guy Ever transforms into a stranger, and a Jekyll and Hyde show down erupts.
Plans and promises for the future disappear into thin air.
Happiness turns to suffering.
You are swiftly replaced by someone else.
Welcome to the world of cognitive dissonance.
Who is this person? What just happened? Is this for real? Nothing makes sense. Did I miss something? Why am I upset and he is so calm? Where was the transparency? People don’t just shape shift in the blink of an eye.
Unless. They. Have. Pathological. Traits.
Sometimes they keep your things. You are replaced and forgotten. You may feel traumatized and grief stricken, like an addict. Your body is telling you that something is very wrong. People will think you’re over reacting, and that you’ll be okay in a couple weeks. When you’re not, you’ll search the Internet for answers. You’ll do almost anything to relieve the relentless, horrific torture. You didn’t even know you could feel this bad. You do think maybe YOU are the crazy one. You want answers, and evidence, and closure. But he won’t give you that.
Thank you Natalie, for acknowledging that these situations exist. For myself, I’m like the one jury member hold out, still deliberating.
Jay
on 02/03/2016 at 6:18 am
Say something….I couldn’t have said that better myself. That’s exactly what you go through. I’m still deliberating myself, not sure I’ll ever reach a verdict. I’ll never truly know who or what I was dealing with. Was he just an assclown, narc, sociopath, malignant sociopath maybe? So many questions and no real answers, only speculation.
Eli
on 02/03/2016 at 12:02 pm
Thanks for your post… It just Reminds me I am not the crazy one and there are other people in the same situation. So hard so recognize everything was just fake…
Mary Jane
on 04/03/2016 at 1:27 am
Say Something,
I really understand what you mean about being the one jury member hold out, still deliberating. (I like the way you put that.) I do it. I am just thankful it is not like it was early on. Today, I drifted back to what happened. Hate it. I guess I am thinking about it because I am preparing to go on a 13 day vacation alone to a beautiful place (where couples will be for sure). I have a plan in place to enjoy myself (leave the cold and head for the sun). I HOPE.
I am packing tonight after planning for this trip and the excitement that should be there isn’t. This hurts. But I am going to make the best of it. It is days like this one that I reflect and analyze about what happened. I am stunned. I am trying to focus on myself and my future. You mentioned in another post that you don’t celebrate your birthday anymore. You should try. My birthday is coming up and I decided to travel to a place I have DREAMED of going to for years. I am going to celebrate. I felt the same way you did about my birthday. This year I am going to celebrate. But I get what you feel. Big hug.
When the weather changes-NYC-your choice of play-on me. Send me good vibes that this vacation is all I have planned it to be. Natalie a NYC workshop would be lovely.
MJ
Say Something
on 04/03/2016 at 11:28 am
Good Morning Mary Jane,
Sending you every good thought for a wonderful vacation (birthday celebration)! You are so brave to go after what you want! You are NOT letting anything or anyone stop you and that is so courageous and inspiring. I hope for you, that you fully enjoy your trip, and that you remain open to how wonderful it will be. I KNOW your circumstances aren’t ideal, but you are creating a new path, and that’s the best you can be.
I’ve heard from several people that ‘Hamilton’ is a must see. We can start with a two person workshop 🙂
Take care, soak in the sun, sink into the sand, and dance your ass off! I’m wondering how many pairs of heels you’re packing:)
Mary Jane
on 04/03/2016 at 12:40 pm
Say Something,
Thanks so much for sending me positive vibes. I just cleared airport security and there were so many couples. I will be fine. I decided this morning not to go negative. I am solo because I am going to an exotic place for sun and relaxation. Zen.
Yes for Hamilton. YAY! I heard it is wonderful. This trip is one just before my big birthday trip. I am attempting to join a tour group for that trip of a lifetime.
I take BR with me no matter where I go. I can’t wait till we see Hamilton and celebrate our birthdays.
I packed so many pairs of heels that they told me to shift them to another bag or PAY. I shifted them. LOL. I’m gonna follow your instructions and dance my ass off. I will be in da club. Here I go.
NYC MAY??????
MJ
Say Something
on 04/03/2016 at 2:12 pm
MJ,
Love the heel story!!! Yes, a day in May will be perfect as long as I know enough in advance. Keep thriving, enjoy, stay safe!
Stephanie
on 16/03/2016 at 12:47 pm
Oh dear me. Couldn’t have been said better, so short but sweet descriptions of the crazy makings! That is exactly what I went through.
Jennifer
on 02/03/2016 at 5:41 am
While I think education is good (everyone could benefit from a basic Psych 101, as how else would we learn about our own psyches?), labeling can become a huge trap.
It is much easier to throw our hands up in the air and go, “I’ve got it! He or she is a…! There it is; my work here is done.” But no no no no, the real issue (the crown jewel) is backtracking to what lead us to the ill-fated situation.
In my 4 years involved with BR, I have never, I mean NEVER, encountered a situation in which a reader could not admit to having at least one red flag present before they choose to begin on a very shady path with a very shady folk.
I’m not saying place blame on self, just take responsibility for the fact that one must walk away quickly from trouble, not dance with it for a bit, or a while, or a lifetime.
The best thing you can take from being heartbroken is to know what breaks a heart and do not seek that or stay with it or play with it from then on.
Also, I’d advise letting the psychologists to the absolute diagnosis and work on understanding the key components of abusive relationships and how to avoid them. Again, as I have referred, the Duluth Models are excellent, http://www.theduluthmodel.org/training/wheels.html, and the back section of Mr Unavailable and the FallbackGirl (Nat’s book) wherein red flag issues are described along with what to do remains absolutely fantastic.
Safe and sound journeys xx
Jennifer
The Wild One
on 02/03/2016 at 5:01 pm
I absolutely agree. Our downfall is that we choose to ignore the negative & acknowledge only the positive.
Eli
on 02/03/2016 at 7:50 am
It s so good to read you. I have been involved with an assclown for the past 4 years. 2 weeks ago I asked him to stop playing with my feelings and get out of my life. He didn’t answer and I still feel horrible for writing that message and not giving him a ‘ proper ‘ goodbye. Despite all the lies and manipulations it s still hard to recognize that he is an assclown and didn’t give a s** about me…
Karen
on 02/03/2016 at 10:01 am
I think I’ve been involved with a narcisst for 3 half years, he was on dating site married and contacted me we got talking he was very charming long story short we had a affair where he kept finishing it every couple of months but always come back. Last year he and his wife split up and he rang me we were over he was seeing some one else!!! I was devasted he was so cold and awful. He got back in touch months later he has a flat getting divorced, back on dating site am on, and still seeing that women but was stringing me along to keep me as back up!! Had enough no more no contact from now on he is toxic.
cc
on 02/03/2016 at 7:37 pm
hi, guys, i haven’t commented here in years. hope you and your family are well, natalie.
what got me about this post was:
1- “There isn’t a ‘solution’ to their narcissism, so all the people pleasing in the world or trying to find a magic solution to make them become who they presented as at the beginning or during the ‘good times’, just blocks your exit from the cycle.”
and
2- “On one hand, they enjoy the adulation but they punish you for ‘mocking’ them even though it’s not what you’re doing, or because of their low self-worth, you’re punished for being one of the ‘fools’ who doesn’t see through them. Yeah, you can’t win.”
in other words:
– you can’t fix them
– they are the way they are, and that has nothing to do with you, i.e., you didn’t make it happen
– they may even know they’re full of it, but even that is YOUR fault. EVERYTHING they do is justified in their mind
i am still struggling with a shatteringly dramatic experience i had with a pretty classic narcissist a few years ago. i’m still judging myself for not walking away.
Phoenix
on 02/03/2016 at 8:22 pm
Great article and best advice EVER at the end….
“If you’ve been (or you suspect you have been) involved with a narcissist, please ensure that you not only get professional support if you’re finding it difficult to exit the relationship or figure out how to move on, but that you also share your struggle with a trusted loved one so that you stop being isolated in the chaos of your involvement.”
I was so isolated in my shame for the abuse I was tolerating due to being vulnerable and insecure after my 30 year marriage ended. Old flame came back to town and took full advantage – I was literally a sitting duck. So angry at myself for falling for his lies then subsequently tolerating his verbal, mental and physical abuse for EIGHT YEARS !
I am no contact AGAIN but this time have told my story so have the support I should have reached out for a very long time ago.
I robbed myself of too many years with these two narcissistic emotionally unavailable men and I am done.
I feel happy, lighter and filled with hope. I am looking forward to my next chapter in life filled with self respect and gratitude for having survived them and will thrive in my future.
Thank you Nat from the bottom of my heart for being you and for sharing your knowledge.
God Bless
Parker
on 02/03/2016 at 8:45 pm
The worst thing about narcissists is that they make you feel like their world in the beginning. They are amazing. Then after a couple of months the texts dwindle, they blow up at nothing, disappear for days or weeks but still popping in saying sweet things to keep you hooked and wanting the original person to come back. They never do.
Can you imagine What that does to the victim’s well being? I was suicidal and yet he’s out there, famous and on the prowl for new victims.
Phoenix
on 02/03/2016 at 8:59 pm
I agree with you Parker! I think its almost like an addict feels – they constantly chase the feeling of their “first high” .
I was at my utmost lowest when my ex high school flame came to town. He said all the right things and made me feel special. For about a minute lol then the real him reared it’s ugly head but I spent 8 years “chasing” & “waiting” for the nice guy to come back.
All lies.
Parker
on 02/03/2016 at 9:47 pm
I know. I wish I didn’t miss him, I really do.
I have heard he’s a mess and being very self destructive. What’s funny is I was JUST starting to get over him and bam-he befriends someone connected to me. Now he’s in my head yet again.
Phoenix
on 02/03/2016 at 10:41 pm
It will get better… believe me . Better to grieve and be done than to keep ripping off the bandage … over and over and over again.
Every time he disappeared on a drinking binge anywhere from two days to two weeks I would finally be feeling better and poof ! There he was again. I’m sorry , it’s my addiction, I love you , please forgive me…. blah blah blah. Sad and embarrassing thing is I put up with his crumbs and disrespectful behavior. 8 years is a long time to waste on someone who doles out crumbs. You deserve better .
If you want change BE the change ! Sending ((hugs))
GettingItRight
on 04/03/2016 at 5:47 am
Nat, it’s so incredible you’ve given us this gift of a place to go. I felt a lot of shame chasing after a man who treated me like crap, and even more shame thinking I hurt him when I finally went no contact (he couldn’t have cared less by the way). I couldn’t talk to my friends about it, they all adore him. Charming, sweet, accomplished, famous… yup, I must be the nut job who brought out the worst in him. It makes me feel safe and understood to see this guy in everyone’s posts, to see myself too. It’s healing to have that affirmation and is truly a source of strength on bad days when I think of him or have feelings of self-doubt. Thank u for this sisterhood you’ve created, and for all you do.
Parker
on 05/03/2016 at 2:22 am
Mine is famous too and puts on the charm to everyone…and he did with me until his true self came out.
Be glad he’s gone. It takes time to heal, but it does happen. Hugs.
Catalina MaGoo
on 30/03/2016 at 3:39 pm
Well he couldn’t be that famous…I never heard of the dolt…. I’ve heard of you… I’ve read about you… You were a heroine in a scary movie… Remember??? Yeah that one…the same one we all were in… You were the Savior of your beautiful SELF… That AMAZON of a WOMAN that made her way through the learnings of a lifetime!!! You SACRIFICED…. You are no ACTOR. You are REAL…. And that is famous.
Lex
on 04/03/2016 at 5:25 pm
I dated a narcissist for 4 years, and his pattern was ALWAYS the same from the start. Their were HUGE red flags, one being his OWN family talking badly about him. Yet, I never left him. He is a liar, and a cheater he has destroyed me in every way possible. We have a son together, and 4 years later he is still the same horrible person I met. He left me and my son for someone else and Brags about her. He has no respect for the family he left behind. He is selfish and a manipulator. I recently started seeing a psychologist to deal with all the anger and saddens. I am a wonderful mother and a strong college educated woman. Unfortunately, I let this narcissistic 25 year old boy degrade me, and I lost who I am in the process. I loved him more than I loved myself. I hope I can get my self esteem back soon and be the woman I was before I met him.
ground zero
on 06/03/2016 at 5:27 am
One of the many scary moments are when you see that ‘evil smile’. It rarely makes an appearance but when it does – it is like being in the presence of a stranger. Actually, that’s not a good way to describe it because it implies you are in denial. That person is not a stranger, that person is the man you love and have love for years but the inner snake (read that on another site) comes through every once in a while.
Scary stuff…
SusieQ
on 20/03/2016 at 12:35 am
Personally I would compare the ‘evil smile’ to more like a smirk because I experienced this on a number of occasions, its almost like they have something they have just done and know that you don’t know what they have done – if that makes sense?
Poppy
on 06/03/2016 at 12:36 pm
I am puzzled by the fact that my spouse behaviour seemed to deteriorate significantly over about the last 3 years. I realise now that he definitely had NPD characteristics going back decades, but we seemed to have kept his conduct under some degree of control, and he was a loving and good father. But our children reached adulthood and essentially started living their own lives. He is now quite off the rails in terms of conduct, left our marriage and has cut himself off from his children. Having done so, he then demanded we share our marital home and he moves in with his new woman! He didn’t succeed in this, but isn’t this completely weird and irrational?
Anne
on 06/03/2016 at 1:56 pm
oh yeah, totally get it. I have found a few friends who understand the crazy part of it. Just explaining the weird things doesn’t make any sense unless you have been involved with one. The thing that was super weird was how we (me and the children) were an extension of him. Like it would throw him into confusion when I liked something different than he would. Or his memories included me when I wasn’t there (he talked about college and reminded me of how we were in a certain class but I had a totally different major, weird). The narc-injuries could be scary too,
I am a really strong person, I always was so it caused a lot of conflict. But I am also really empathetic so when the narcissistic conflict would pass I would go back to understanding him and it really drained me. It took a long time to realize he did have some control over his actions and he was responsible for them. Then it was over, I was exhausted and hurt so despite the struggles I have had as a single mom I needed to do it.
Funny thing is that we had a really amazing conversation a few weeks ago. I think that he gets into deeply narcissistic times but there is more to him than that (not that I have ever considered going back, he is not safe). He asked my advice, we had a good conversation and he seemed to be dealing with his ego a little. Wow. His image of himself could not last forever so I am glad he is working with it.
In any case thank you for this article, It was really clear.
GettingItRight
on 09/03/2016 at 8:49 pm
Eli, don’t feel horrible u went no contact via writing him instead of face to face. Sometimes given a difficult and emotional time, it’s the best way to make your feelings known without the added stress of seeing him face to face or him having the opportunity to talk u out of it. I tried many times over the years to go no contact face to face because as we all know, we get to a realization we have to get off the painful self esteem-robbing merry go round of hot/cold and disrespectful behavior and a relationship that’s not working (and is likely toxic). But each time I’d be face to face with him he’d talk me out of it, and I’d leave feeling important to him and cared about. Wouldn’t last long of course, as his actions said otherwise not long after. Be proud u put YOU first and had the clarity and courage to decide enough is enough, which is far more important than how that message was delivered. ((Hugs))
Constance Jacobs
on 10/03/2016 at 4:02 am
Excellent post. Thank you for sharing your advice.
annie
on 13/03/2016 at 7:25 pm
Thanks so much for your wonderful writings. Reading these pages and replies is getting me through each day. Currently on NC, and have been for a week – last Sunday my Narc told me via email all the things wrong with me, called ME a narc with an anger problem, and finished it by saying ‘this is why I cant be with you.’
After almost 6 years, I know I MUST stick to this, this time. Have tried to leave, and broke up prob about 20 times. Each time, the silent treatment, the passive aggressive game playing coupled with a few crumbs of a good person, has pulled me back in.
I know it’s because of childhood abandonment issues, and I am trying to find some online resources to heal that part of me. There have been regular red flags (telling me to ‘cheer up’ only a few weeks after my father passed away, secretly contacting his ex and going to her for an ego stroke after we had rows, telling me it was ME causing his panic attacks and depression, the list is endless..)
I have tried to keep busy, but just feel like laying in bed and feeling sorry for myself. I have a few other ‘admirers’, lovely chaps who on paper would make a wonderful partner, but they just don’t ‘do it ‘ for me (which im also aware is likely due to only being comfortable in dramatic turmoil relationships since childhood).
It’s his birthday on Tues, and he know that I had a weekend booked and paid for, and things arranged which have cost me, and cannot be altered. I’m going to struggle this week I know, but whenever I do, I add to my notebook which I have been writing in, all the crappy unreasonable and downright unbelievable stuff he’s said and done to me.
I feel at the moment that I am put of relationships completely forever. I know this will fade – love the ‘fallback girl’ and ‘no contact’ download books which I look at every time I am feeling weak. cant see an end out of the fog at the moment, and fear the lonliness, but each day at a time I suppose.
this man is 50 on tues, and if he hasn’t changed now, he never will..i however, still hope that I am young enough (42) to find the ‘one’, and feel very angry at myself for ignoring all the flags (when I knew something was very bad and I ignored them). Should have left after 8 weeks..the signs were there, but I was just out of another breakup and was feeling vulnerable.
I shall keep using the books – thanks so much online saviours…your site is slowly convincing me that I haven’t in fact, as ive been told over and over, that im’ mentally ill! Thans from the bottom of my heart x
kay
on 20/03/2016 at 5:33 pm
Classic projection on his part. good riddance!
Karl
on 16/03/2016 at 5:22 pm
Thank you so much! I’ve been recovering from a relationship with a narcissist for some time and you really did nail down all the points that describe just how consuming it can be. They are like emotional sponges that soak up, and drain you, of all esteem and respect you have for yourself with no end in sight. Your final point, “
Karl
on 16/03/2016 at 5:23 pm
Thank you so much! I’ve been recovering from a relationship with a narcissist for some time and you really did nail down all the points that describe just how consuming it can be. They are like emotional sponges that soak up, and drain you, of all esteem and respect you have for yourself with no end in sight. Your final point, “If you have it in you to love, to empathise, to recognise right from wrong and truly see and connect with other humans, the spiritual task of the narcissist is to force you to take on the task of being responsible for and loving you, because it is only by doing so that they (and the pain) go away and you finally become open to experiencing real, sustainable love from within and outside of you,” is so spot on.
stlielis
on 22/03/2016 at 2:07 pm
About a year ago I became friends with a man I worked with on and off for years. Circumstances dictated that I now work with him more closely. It was clear that this normally closed, guarded guy described as ‘unemotional” by ppl who’d known him a long time took an interest in me. He’d linger after meetings, walk me to them; we’d go to lunch and talk about our lives and families. We even made a trip together- he was driving for vacation to a state my aunt lived in and invited me along for a 20 hour round trip. It was seemless, like we’d done it before. Our likes, interests, (distorted) family history and personalities were so similar; we felt comfortable with eachother. After the trip – a bit frustrated at his lack of advancing this and 7 mos into our friendship- I told him I’d like to advance our friendship to another level. He declined, saying we worked together. I reduced our contact, but still stayed friendly. We seemd to heat up again in Nov before- long story shortened – he emailed me out of the blue to say he could no longer be my friend because of my romantic feelings for him -keeping in mind I’d said nothing to that effect, was never physical etc. However I admit i still had some feelings for him, although it was only one foot in. Why?
Because I knew he was EU. I’ve had deep experience with EUM and had taken the last several years to work on myself to avoid the next EUM. Interestingly I did figure out why he is EU- he most likely has aspergers. The more comfortable he became with me, the more it showed (I have an aspie brother). And yet i stuck it out in the friendzone, knowing apsies can love but don’t show it well. I “gave” him chances to tell me he cared, thinking he was not my typical ass EUM but a guy with a legit disability. How does this relate? Aspies exhibit many qualities of a narcissist. This list and others like it have helped me to understand him and try and release my connection. And, the relationship generally has shown me how far I’ve come: i accepted the “break-up”, didn’t cling/pursue/beg for an explanation, told him i respected his wish to not talk again while gently saying I wish he’d done so before the break up. I AM hurt though. After my other EUMs i was a crying, begging, letter writing wreck. And YET- the more things change the more they stay the same. One foot in or not, i was still in, rationalizing based on disability that he was not intentionally EU. A divorced man, with many failed relationships. I thought I could be the exception. But for the first time I can say and believe: it’s not me, it’s him. He has limited availability and he’s a self sabotager. The ME part was getting involved in the first place knowing his limitations. He was never an ass or a user, thankfully, so in a sense I got off easy, this EU lesson was a kinder and gentler one, but told me I still need to do work on me.
I would like to say too it’s possible that some of the men women write off as EU or asses may in fact have developmental disabilities or personality disorders like these (NPD and aspie) and we just don’t know it. Regardless, they cannot be fixed.
I apologize for the length. Looong time reader, never a poster.
Dale Kamp
on 23/03/2016 at 3:09 am
I’ve been struggling growing up with a very influential, narcissistic parent. I always felt like society is being turned against me. I’ve been framed for crimes for not complying with demands, and I felt like no one could ever understand my situation. People constantly pressure me to help my parent, to this day. If there was one benefit to such an upbringing, it’s that I can detect narcissists better than most can, and hopefully will be able to help my friends in extremely abusive, narcissistic relationships.
Catalina MaGoo
on 30/03/2016 at 3:51 pm
It’s thoughts… These thoughts.. We keep telling ourself judging these “emotionally .-constipated” like we judge ourself. They are not on our same wavelength. When you come to understand they’re one sole purpose is to be a tool to discover you and how you functions and what you need and what you don’t need. After you realize this you can fix and work on making you better. Just USE them…. To benefit YOU. That’s all it was ever meant to be.
Ash
on 25/04/2016 at 9:47 am
I met a guy in November 2015 who i immediately hit it off with. After hanging out a couple of times, it was clear he wanted more from me than friendship however something just didnt “feel right” – i guess it was because, without sounding childish, he would not accept a friend request on FB – stating that he only used the app for messaging. I brushed it off and continued to sleep with him and get entangled. In December he went to NZ for Xmas and NYE with his family. I did some stalking and found, just by chance, his supposed girlfriend. I threatened to tell her and he used every excuse under the sun: “I didnt want to scare you off”, “its a long distance relationship and i haven’t spoken to her in a while” “we are on and off” “you have shown me that i can do better for myself” “thankyou for showing me she isn’t the one”. I told him that if he was serious about me, he would call it off with her – period. He delayed doing this but eventually sent me a screen capture last minute when im guessing he could sense me getting fed up. The message, looking back, wasn’t exactly a break up, more of a half assed attemp at pussy-footing around what he promised to do.
A few weeks went by, he asked me to officially be his girlfriend. Then started acting weird.. really distant. Said work was stressing him out. That he wasn’t sure if he wanted to stay in town, wanted to move back to the city. On numerous occasions i asked him if he saw a place for me in his future.. he couldnt answer me yet i persisted. I asked him if he was having second thoughts about us.. he said no and that i should stop bringing it up, that he hasn’t met anyone like me before and when asking him if we should start seeing other people he said “i dont know.. i think we get along too well”. On numerous occasions i cried in front of him asking for answers, and he still could not let me know.
I went on a girls trip to indonesia 2 months later and a friend of mine suggested i go NC. Within 2 days i had a message saying “im thinking about you”.. 3 days later i was dumped. When asked why, he said it was due to my “drunken” behaviour one night before i left and that it “turned him off”. He then went into how i am way too good for him and he is depressed and will drag me into his “deep dark hole of depression”.
3 days later i find his (ex)girlfriend positing photos of their one year anniversary.. but wait.. i thought they broke up?? Funny how he was heading to the city this weekend for “interviews”. I threatened to tell her everything and he said he wasn’t sure why she was posting such photos as they were not together. Foolishly i believed him again.. DAMN he was good at lying. He even said he would not be catching up with her whilst down there.. then last minute changed his story.. apparently they had caught up for coffee and he all of a sudden realised he wanted to be with her. Oh and that he told her everything and she took him back.. Then told me he wanted to kill himself and cried to me on the phone. All while i was on holiday.
A month later, he tries to weasle his way back in regardless of me now knowing he was with her. I ended up telling her the truth 3 weeks ago of the whole affair, screen captures and all proving the above. 4 months of cheating. 4 months of lying and deciet. Turns out he never broke it off with her in the first place and that he never meant anything he said to me.
She has taken him back.. apparently he broke down crying and now she believes he just made a mistake because their relationship was long distance and that she just doesn’t think he is that person but is grateful i told her.
Writing this down makes it all seem really childish..What does everyone think of this? How could you take him back after 4 months of cheating? Will their relationship work or will he just throw her out now that she is well aware of who he is???
Thanks girls x
Ash
on 25/04/2016 at 9:51 am
I should probably add that when i said “perhaps we should let this go and both move on” i got a response of “is that all”.. also when i was dumped one of the messages was “can we please still be friends” and that i was the only person in his life he could speak to…
I find it hard to admit he has narcisstic traits as ive spent so much time defending him. A part of me believes that maybe it was me and that she will be the lucky one who gets the good side of him.. maybe he really does “love her”. I dont know…
Kristie
on 28/04/2016 at 12:58 am
So good to hear your story!! I have heard the same things that you have. “I am hard on you because I hold you to a higher standard than anyone else” sound familiar??? This was after he yelled at me for making a mistake playing my guitar or relearning how to drive a standard after ten years or the most recent simply asking a question about something that I did not have enough knoledge about (I was wasting his time by asking without enough detail).Haha!! These dudes are without feeling. You are better off without him! SHE is being naive and is going to be really hurt in the not so distant future. We will probably see a posting from her soon once she figures him out!! Take care
Lou
on 06/05/2016 at 7:18 am
Hi Ash,
A big red flag that we don’t see whilst were in the throes of being charmed is that statement ‘ its on and off and we haven’t interacted in a while’
A classic statement from disordered people. If they haven’t spoken to you for a few days they feel justified in making that statement whilst the poor person at the other end is wondering with confusion why they haven’t heard in a few days.
The one I was with spent the last year still telling me exactly the same things, texting/ phone calls/ meetings never stopped but he held back physically saying that ‘ its never been just about sex for you and me, we have much more than that, and if it had been it wouldn’t have lasted this long, you and I are meant forever’ what’s that supposed to mean? ……..it means ‘I want you in my life, loving me, waiting for me, not forgetting or moving on from me, then if I want to I can have sex with you’
They live their days by the precise moment, filling their time with the person who is immediately available and will easily say ‘ I’ve had no contact with her’ and believe it inwardly if they didn’t text someone for a couple of days.
How he manipulated you into believing his excuses, he will have done exactly the same with the other woman, she is long distance and will crave validation from him even more than you because she isn’t there to watch, feel, she only has his word.
Mine told me those things all that time, then told his wife we’d moved on aß friends a year ago….see?? He used words to manipulate me and the same words to his own advantage as well. He would have felt justified in doing so and feel no remorse for keeping me hooked and stringing me along.
I feel such a fool, I’ve never loved anyone the way I do him, I caught him in lies, contradictions, and only ten months in, watched him chasing someone else under my nose, he showed all the same obsessive actions with her, but denied anything even though I heard them making out together. He was so convincing that I stopped believing my own eyes and ears! Then stayed four more years !!
They are emotional parasites who drain you of your soul and the longer you stay the longer it takes to let go of.
Kristie
on 28/04/2016 at 12:49 am
Thought he was many things but narcissistic was not one of them. Was I ALL WRONG!! This was him to the last letter. Although I am over him I do fell sorry for the way he is. I was always wrong, forced into silence and afraid to respond to his opinions in fear that I would be “the victim”. What a troubling place to be! If I asked a simple question I was wasting his time. Although he would usually say that he thought it was awesome that I was trying to gain knowledge…haha. A way of keeping me trapped. An utter and complete ASSCLOWN who knows-it-all!!! I am done! Love myself way too much to put up with his bullshit any longer. Cannot understand why us with empathy end up which those lacking it?!?!? In the past year I have gained this knowledge…..never live by thinking “when this happens I will be happy……if I get him is ill be ok.” This will not happen for happiness comes from within. Cannot stress enough that our own lives depend on us and us alone. No one else can be saved or save ourselves. Be well and don’t fall for ANYONES bullshit!!!
CK
on 29/04/2016 at 1:47 am
I have struggled for months trying to figure out the guy I’m seeing. He’s divorced and came off “looking for a relationship” in the beginning and pursued me hard! He is passive aggressive and emotionally unavailable and definitely has some N traits as well! He’s extremely hot and cold and NEVER speaks of his emotions/feelings/thoughts, and if I bring them up or want to know where this “relationship” is going, I get the silent treatment which sometimes lasts hours to days to a week.Or he eventually lashes out at me if I proceed to attempt to get him to talk to me. I have learned not to bother when he crawls into his shell. Emotionally I feel like I’m on a roller coaster and have such a hard time attempting NC because for some reason I feel strongly for him regardless. He came on very strong at first which lasted a few weeks before it started to go up and down. He wants to keep me around, get all the fringe benefits of a relationship but claims he doesn’t want commitment, has too much going on etc etc. it’s usually when I start to feel ok with the silence that’s when he will creep back in. Unfortunately I see him a few times a week because I have to, so avoiding him completely is out of the question but I bet that it would help immensely if I was able to avoid it. He is extremely different when we are alone together compared to in public. He isn’t touchy in public, (infact it’s like we don’t know each other when we’re in public) the time we do spend alone is fantastic, I love every minute but when I leave I feel lost alone and used. To be honest, I feel like I was a very different person before I met him. I’ve become anxious and depressed from time to time, lost weight and have been questioned by family and close friends if I’m ok. Sometimes I feel like I’m crazy for feeling everything I do, and I’m not quite sure why I deserve this or why I put up with it. I need some strength!!
SSS
on 09/05/2016 at 7:13 am
Great article and some sound advice. I’ve got a pattern of being in toxic relationships with people who have narcissistic traits. It’s only after the last one ended last year did I realise how much internal healing I needed to do. This time round it’s far worse as I have children with my ex so no contact isn’t an option.
For those going through the stages of recovery following the ending of dysfunctional relationship i offer my empathy. And I’ll also say don’t be too hard on yourselves for getting involved with someone like this. I’m retraining as a therapist and it was only my training that started to make me see that something wasn’t right about my partner. Of course, there were big red flags at the start, but I chose to ignore them!
I’ve been through sheer hell for the past 2 years and after trying to get through to my ex, I walked out 6 months ago. Since then it’s been really painful and really challenging. But I am now getting to a place where I forgive my ex for the things she did (yes, this is a female narc I’m talking about and I’m a man!) and the stuff she said behind my back. I accept she’s not complete as a person and her damaged upbringing has caused her to carry around wounds she’ll never heal, for she can’t face them.
I’ll never forget who I’m dealing with, I’ll never trust her, be her friend or share anything about my private life. It’s now a functional relationship based around the children’s needs.
What I did and am learning is how the lack of validation from my parents when I was growing up led me into each of the toxic relationships I’ve been in. A lack of self validation is the perfect breeding ground for attracting narcissists into your life. Until you can parent yourself properly, nurture yourself in a way that was lacking from your childhood, you’ll keep attracting these destructive types into your world.
The narcissist showed you something you wanted to keep hidden, a part of you that’s painful. Take note of what it is and embrace it. I know that one day my ex will be the best thing that happened to me because she showed me where I was lacking. She attacked it, used it and manipulated it. But if she hadn’t of done that I wouldn’t have had to face down the insecurities in me that I’m facing now and should have faced before this person walked into my life. Good luck to all the survivors out there.
Isabelle
on 11/05/2016 at 10:16 pm
Oh wow. This is so timely for me. I just spent years in a LDR with someone that fits this description to a T. He lied about everything. It got to be that’s how I knew he was lying. I was hearing his voice. Sad. He seemed so very sincere but something never felt right or real about it. I questioned myself even though I was raised by a malignant narcissistic sociopathic mother. That’s actually what threw me. He wasn’t viscous the way she was. Ah, but he was. Just passive aggressively. He had this sick habit of leaving crumbs to show the truth, or at least how he defined it but then cloak it in plausible deniability. I wasn’t able to trust myself even though my gut was screaming. Never again. I knew all along but never had any faith in my judgment or established boundaries. He’d just disappear and then call weeks later. He was dealing with a drinking problem. He thought I didn’t want to talk to him (hilarious as he was the one that vanished, whatever).
This time though. Found out he had been cheating and dumped his ass without letting him talk. Did it by txt. Very short and sweet. “I know. All feelings gone. Nothing to discuss. Done.” Then blocked him. I feel free for the first time in years. What a waste of skin. They’re really not human. Have zero empathy. Now when I look back I can easily see ALL the signs and the patterns. What a shame. So much time wasting on some thing not work a second much less years.
Ally
on 22/05/2016 at 12:04 pm
Hi. I just wanted to thank you so much for writing this article. It’s one of the best ones I’ve ever read, and I’ve read so many trying to figure out this man and situation in my life. You really opened my eyes and given me more understanding to finally see & learn the lessons this relationship was meant for me to learn about myself… And maybe finally have the strength to break free for good. Really, honestly thank you for taking the time to help us still struggling by providing your insights. Please keep it up, it’s very much appreciated. It’s life changing.
I’ve been running Baggage Reclaim since September 2005, and I’ve spent many thousands of hours writing this labour of love. The site has been ad-free the entire time, and it costs hundreds of pounds a month to run it on my own. If what I share here has helped you and you’re in a position to do so, I would love if you could make a donation. Your support is so very much appreciated! Thank you.
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Thank you so very much Natalie. You’ve helped me so much with my on going recovery from my toxic, destructive relationship/entanglement through your books and blog posts. Without your wisdom and guidance I dread to think what would have happened to me. Thank you.
Thank you. I’ve been doing a bit of reading the past few days about different types of narcissism, and I’ve finally been able to put a name to the kind of behavior and treatment I experienced at the hands of my ex. It makes me feel better to be able to identify it, up until now it’s just seemed to be this intangible, indescribable ‘something’ that made me feel isolated, belittled, and unloved. So this article is very timely, and is one I’m sure I’ll revisit from time to time.
Hello Mae,
I completely empathize as well as sympathize with what you’re going through. I went through a horrible narcissistic experience three years ago. I felt like my world was shattered into a million bits. I couldn’t understand what had happened or why. I felt like I was losing my mind and would never recover. In fact, I was unfamiliar with the term “narcissist” until I was describing to my mother what I experienced and she said this man sounded like a narcissist based on what she learned watching a program about it. All I can say is educating myself helped a lot initially and in time I was able to come to terms with the hard truth. He was a man who played a role, incapable of genuine love. But what I’ve learned is that he showed me “myself” and the deep core wounding that had been there long before him. I poured over information. Sam Vaknin has a great book called Malignant Self Love. What I can’t stress enough is the importance of No Contact. At all. No Facebook. Nothing. There’s no other way to allow your emotions to settle down so you can sort though the trauma. Best of luck on your healing journey Mae.
Good luck to you too, Martian. Knowing that we aren’t crazy, that we were being manipulated and mistreated makes all the difference. Being unable to put your finger on what exactly was happening, but knowing that we were being damaged, hurt, and unhappy is so frustrating. Especially when these guys appear to everybody else to be ‘catches’. It isn’t until you get close enough to them to see who they really are, and have them turn on you, that you see they’re no catch at all.
Also Mae, Melanie Tonia Evans is a narcissistic abuse recovery expert. She has videos on YouTube and also sends out news letters as well as weekly podcasts that are really helpful. So just google her and you’ll find a wealth of information that will help you sort through your trauma. She has tons of radio shows on Blogtalk Radio that are phenomenal! Best of luck to you Mae.
Thank you for the recommendation, I’ll check her stuff out. Best of luck to you, too 🙂
All I can say is “wow” Natalie. This is one of your most powerful posts ever, hit me right in the gut, where I needed it. Every single thing you wrote rang true for me. I grew up with a borderline personality disorder mother and despite knowing that I am replaying this dynamic with men, I have not been able to break the pattern, but I think I’m on the cusp of being able to stop doing this to myself.
I’ve been thinking…when you see the narcissist as they really are and they know it, and the mask is off and you still love them, that’s the real ending. I think because they really do not like themselves, seeing us “love” them makes us repulsive to them, since they do not love themselves and feel bad. Isn’t that why they have to do all the charming, acting, etc? Does this sound right? I was seeing the real person who was unsuccessful in his profession, despite an Ivy League education and impressive past career experience (and communicated this knowledge), a less-than dad of a teenager, and a partner who was “kicked to the curb” and “no longer wanted” by his last girlfriend. This is the same person who I’ve heard misrepresent himself on phone calls and on social media as a together attorney and artist, to acquaintances and old, out-of-touch friends…someone who comes across as the most confident, sexy guy but no woman would really want him if they knew he was living with a roommate in an apartment with another guy at the age of 54. They just see him as he acts — but I know who he is — and still wanted to be with him. That’s why I got ditched. What the hell was I thinking?
I’ve been feeling so sad about my most recent ending but now I starting to see it as a blessing, in that I can heal my wounds from childhood and be with a man who can actually be present, which is what I want so much. Thank you so much for this post Natalie!
I just wanted to add the that the things I said about this last guy are things he told me. He told me he didn’t feel like a good dad, that he did not want to work as an attorney anymore (and was doing side jobs basically, while trying to sell his paintings), and had been kicked to the curb. He said I was lucky to have my current job and a second job offer — he had no real job. When I said that the new home I purchased was not perfect but was all I could afford he said it was more than he had (he has a roommate). The sad thing is I was left feeling like a loser at the end of it, when he kissed me goodbye one morning not to be heard from again. I don’t judge people based on material possessions or career success — but it’s like he hated me for being that way…
Material possessions and career success is one thing… Living with roommates and having no real job is another. (Sounds like he might have been trying to get out of paying support).
And you don’t have to judge them for it. Nor do you have to pander to them by having them in your life. It shows a lack of planning for life and a lack of drive – everyday life needs drive. Relationships need drive. If the person is used to copping out and settling for the minimum and that’s not how you live, then where’s your common ground? Where are the shared values?
Although again – it seems he was judging you for having your values which make you happy and productive. Why can’t you judge him back?
Haley,
They are masters of deception! My ex-narc was a charmer and claimed he wanted to be an attorney. Never mind he didn’t graduate from college let alone law school. He had to move from his apartment because he couldn’t afford it without a roommate, had no car and barely had a job. But yet he could do better than me. In essence, he was just an insecure little boy who had to dump on people to make himself look good.
Perfect timing, Natalie. I’ve been reading all week about Narcissists and had a big session today with my therapist on this very topic. Everything I’ve read, including your post tonight could be a portrait of my ex. This is all helping me feel my self-esteem gradually return, and to let go of the incessant questioning, ruminating and re-hashing. It explains so much, but is very sad. He is a damaged soul.
Thank you very much.
So powerful. You really are gifted. Many of your articles put words to what I’ve felt before in previous situations which helps to bring it into perspective so much better. Thank you ????????
I think Natalie has metaphysical gifts she pours into her assessments. I have noticed before that in one post she will give as much information as I’d get from reading four books. She has definitely helped me go from victim to angry enough for no contact, to I’m not angry but if we have contact I will be in about 5 minutes, and finally to this stage: I was re-reading a few back pages in my journal (after age 60, I swear you won’t recall what shoes you have on unless you look) and I found a quick note I’d scribbled in a margin, ” Hey, I’ve forgotten to think about ___
for a few days now. 🙂
This was one of your best posts yet! I like how you included insight to narcissistic behavior, how to respond to this behavior, AND what it teaches us. This is so well-rounded and I LOVE IT! My ex was at the least narcissistically inclined, and the relationship/breakup was one of the most painful of my life. However, it shook me awake, causing me to pay attention to the pain and learn where I need to love ME better. Love, love, love it girl! Your posts are brilliant! 😉
Thanks for this, Natalie. Very timely for me as well. I was completely heartbroken this fall after breaking it off with one following some ridiculous and disrespectful behavior from him. He of course was mad at me for ending it, totally disregarding my reasons for doing so. He trashed me to mutual friends, making me out to be crazy, insecure, unstable, etc. Unfortunately I didn’t fully break, which led to exactly what you described above — me taking all the blame for things and him stringing me along, feeling confident just knowing I was “there.” It was only when I pulled back in December and stopped responding to his emails because I couldn’t take it anymore that he switched gears and started to turn back on the charm and, when I kept ignoring, eventually asked me to meet him in person. Luckily by this point I had had enough distance to get clarity and break the hold he had over me, so I didn’t go for it.
These people are manipulative and toxic and cause a world of pain. I felt off balance our entire relationship once the initial pursuit ended, which will be a big red flag going forward. I agree that they drudge up all sorts of things about yourself, which is helpful to learn. Taking the focus off him and his thoughts and feelings, and placing it on me was very difficult but a huge step in my recovery.
Thanks Natalie. I’ve bought all of your books and read some of them several times, while extricating myself from a very toxic relationship with a narcissist. The experience with him has wounded me more than I ever realised, but it has also made me a lot stronger and getting into my second month of no contact with him (despite his rather half-arsed efforts!), I’m feeling stronger every day. He used to win me over with expensive holidays and extravagant gestures, but none of these made up for the day to day lack of respect, coldness, hot and cold, mind-screwing behaviour he used to exhibit towards me. Never, ever, ever again. I took him back several times and I will never do it again. Onwards and upwards and thank you Natalie, you have a great gift and have helped me more than you can know. Sincerely, thank you <3
A narcissist broke my heart and shattered it to pieces a few years ago. You can see some of my comments on BR particularly on assclowns and hot and cold behavior. It was a whirlwind of chaos. It wasant until I was out that I reliazed I was involved in a narcissist relationship with theraphy confirming it.
Rebuilding after the relationship is very different than a typical heart break. With a narcissist so much gas lighting, crazy making, mirroring, lies and deceit occured that I didn’t know what was real and what was fake. Every story was made up- pathological at best.
A narcissist eats away at your self esteem and makes you feel that you’re lesser than without being so obvious about it. All I can say is that if something sets off a red flag listen to your hunches.
After years if theraphy and rebuilding I am leading a peaceful and wonderful life without him. Never think a narcissist changes for the other woman- it doesn’t happen and is a front. A narcissist cares only about their own self. They can’t feel emotion and don’t want to.
Go no contact, seek support and stick through the withdrawl symptoms as much as it hurts. The work you do on you in the end and when you reflect back and see how far you’ve come is so worth it.
In one way Im thankful this experience happened to me because I came out of it completely rebuilt, stronger, confident and an empowered woman.
Xoxo
Very well said! I have been in the same boat as you and after 3-4 years of this crazy making, soul destroying relationship, I’m finally starting to love myself. To heal is to understand that when you choose yourself, them choosing you ceases to have value. It has been a life and death struggle for me–the lows are VERY low, but I’m on the up and up. He is still in my environment–I work with him–and he won’t stop his hot and cold, almost stalking behavior, but I’m creating a new life from the inside out. I’m so grateful to connect with other people who have been through this–it helps so much to know that we aren’t alone.
Yes it isn’t until you finish a relationship with what you find out later has been with a narcissist/sociopath that you wonder what happened to you! They future fake, treat you like a princess and put you on a pedestal and then comes the dropping of the mask, the lies, deceit, cheating, bringing you down by passing odd comments about your looks, behaviour or anything they think they can get away with. The one I went out with for 3 years, I didn’t know he was narcissistic until he disappeared on me out of the blue without saying goodbye which left me totally bewildered. I caught up with him eventually and he treated me with total distaste as if he had never set eyes on me in his life. I was in shock to think someone who had shared my life, my family, my bed and professed to love me could just shut any memory of me and walk away.
It has taken me a long time, many crying times, and getting my head round how I could have been taken in by someone like him, but after reading up lots of literature about personality disordered people I am now on the right track. Having said that, I cannot bring myself to start another relationship with a man and I really believe no contact is the way to go. This website has been such a help in my search to save my sanity – thank you!
I’ve written on a few sites recently following a very dramatic and soul destroying discard from someone whom i considered was the complete love of my life.
I had almost six years of him controlling me, keeping me in his life for which I now know, only to fuel his ego. I believed he loved me, trusted that he’d never hurt me. We are both married, and against all my morals, ended up in a very deeply emotional relationship, physically at intermittent periods, always extremely obsessively on his part. I was future faked, lied to, strung along with constant declarations of love. I never knew from one day to the next if we were lovers or just buddies. He would triangulate his spouse, tell me it was hell living with her, then flip and talk fondly of the meal she cooked him the night before.
I was in a bad marriage, devoid of any intimacy, he knew this and used it to fuel his ego/ cause my frustration. There were too many red flags and things he did/ said for me to mention. He instilled very deep love and a very strong fear of losing him into me.
When he started telling me it was me he wanted to be with I planned everything in my head, then he decided he couldn’t leave because she was unstable with depression ( no surprise there) but still kept promising our time would come soon. I was absolutely besotted with him.
I finally started seeing that he didn’t really mean any of it although his constant contact was very easy to believe, it was obsessive.
When I finally began feeling like just a convenience and realised that promises of things getting better were not actually happening, I questioned him on whether it should just stop.
Only days later I got his reaction full force. Testing my intentions, told me his wife knew but didn’t care as shed wanted out for years, then it all flipped and I started getting slanderous threats against my family.
I have PTSD, been in therapy for nearly four months. No one has confronted me face to face, only threatened on social media and text. Then weeks later it started again.
I can’t describe what I went through, I confessed my part to my spouse the first week, so home life was hell whilst I waited to be confronted. I also went through withdrawal symptoms waiting to hear from him. He’d cut me off and sat back whilst the abuse was hurled at me, he’d apparently told her it was a short lived very sexual fling, denying anything emotional, six years worth.
I was and still am devastated that this has all come from someone who obsessively claimed to love me, and only me.
Now I’m coming slightly out of the fog, I believe he has done this all himself, and that he did so because I wasn’t buying his fantasy any more.
I said I’d take it further if I had any more threats, then both of them completely disappeared from social media, very odd for a spouse who wanted answers, to block me so I couldn’t reply? I didn’t want to believe anyone could be this cruel, but I never heard from him again, he didn’t even have enough respect for me to tell me he couldn’t do this anymore, and spoke casually by accident on the phone asking if I was okay. That says he would have given no closure, and wanted me to stay around with my adoration.
I let him know how he’d made me feel still feeling deep love for him, but knowing that I could never go back after he left me drowning and discredited and shamed me….all for things he did as well. He was happy for me to take blame and shame for everything.
I also for my own future sanity, let him know it was over, and have never heard from him since.
I feel like I’ve been in a massacre, panic attacks, waking up crying uncontrollably and don’t know if it will end.
I know I probably deserve it, but no one understands how deeply the grooming goes. I was a very confident person before I met him.
Also need to add that I’m married to a narcissist of the covert kind, and despite my honesty, he won’t leave, because ‘I belong to him’
I will be that person again.
Thank you for these words. I needed to hear them today. x
Wonderful articulation of all the terrible traits it seemingly takes years to understand or even believe possible from the one that feigned so much goodness once upon a time. You poignantly said the word is over-used and that’s sadly true. But for the true demented and disordered it isn’t about name calling or even categorizing. Its about finding understanding, being able to constructively connect the dots of truly empty shallow thoughtless crude behaviors by learning the characteristics that apply. Does that make sense? After these past five years of roller coaster rides and eventual healing (with your help), you begin to wonder if anything makes sense anymore. My needling question is: what could have helped us recognize and accept the trait sooner? I was even told by a psychiatrist who used the words “emotionally unintelligent” and I still didn’t quite perceive the depth of what was going on? I don’t know how I could have been so blind; and yet I see it so often now in others who perpetually accept the crumbs, accept the excuses and wait for the original Mr. Wonderful to return. But he never does. Thank you again.
Thank you Nat. I needed to read this today. I’ve been wondering for the last few months if my ex was actually a narcissist and after reading this I think he was. This guy charmed the hell out of me to the point of almost being phony. I just thought that was his personality and he was such a “great guy” and foolishly told him that too. When it came time to prove himself, he discarded me like trash…literally from one day to the next. It happened so fast, it made my head spin. He had just taken me out the night before and was still playing the part of the great guy. I thought everything was fine. He was a great actor.
The next day he broke up with me, saying such cruel things to me. I didn’t even know who I was talking to! NO EMPATHY WHATSOEVER…Part of me thinks he somewhat enjoyed it. I could tell in the careless way he said things. He would even “sigh” during that convo at times as if I was such an annoyance to him. There was even a little “laugh” in the beginning. I couldn’t make this stuff up! He just didn’t care.
Til this day he has never contacted me, just abandoned me. I stupidly contacted him after the fact and even wrote a letter thinking I would somehow get closure for myself or get it off my chest. It felt good but only temporarily. I don’t necessarily regret contacting him but overall it was a waste of time if that makes any sense? This situation affected me to the point where it scares the hell out of me to trust anyone again. I’ve always been very resilient, even after bad relationships…not this time. At the time I just wanted to lay down and die… I really did because it hurt so bad. Sounds dramatic I know but it’s the truth. I’m better but even now the thought of having a relationship causes me to tense up.
Not to sound bitter but it really disgusts me that I was cuddling up to someone who could do that to me. The sad part is if I had the chance to get revenge and do this to him…I still wouldn’t do it. I can’t say for sure he was a narc or sociopath but he sure played the part of one. If one thing stands out, it’s definitely lack of empathy.
I forgot to add that he did a fantastic job In making me feel like what “he” did was somehow my fault. I blamed myself for months and there’s only so much of that you can do. It’s exhausting.
I dated a man for a year and a half. He was the most charming, “perfect” guy. My friends loved him, my parents loved him..I loved him…he was amazing. Then one day I came home from being out and he proceeded to scold, taunt and shame me. This behavour was so stunning, so completely out of character, I’m ashamed to say I didn’t walk straight out the door. Instead I slept on it. I tried to speak to him of it, he told me he would not apologize and this went on for weeks. When I wouldn’t stop bringing it up, wouldn’t stop asking to talk about it. He just shut the door. Told me he needed a month apart. Again, I should have walked out the door, but I didn’t. I waited around for a month. We met and he had a bag full of everything I had left at his place. All tossed in with no care and a receipt for a recent hotel we had stayed in on a recent vacation neatly folded on top (apparently he expected me to pay up my share). He proceeded to tell me that he had though a lot on why he had lashed out the way he had that night. He now realized that the true issue was that I “didn’t touch him enough”. I didn’t rub his feet (yes, he actually used that example) and I just wasn’t tactile enough for him and it just “wasn’t who I am” so there was no point in trying to make it work. He also claimed our sex life was not passionate enough. He asked me if I had ever heard that from another boyfriend before ! I was devastated, I was furious and I was gutted. You see, I had thought we were very affectionate, and our sex life was great. Was I crazy? Had I imagined it all? It has taken me a year to recover from this complete devastation. I thought this was the guy I was going to have children with, grow old with. I am shaken by the fact that I never saw any of this coming. How could I have been so wrong? Of course, now I see that this man is emotionally unavailable and maybe even a bit of a narcissist. A year it has taken me, but I see now I have learnt and grown. I feel, I will not so easily fall for the mask again.
I now consider ‘charm’ a red flag. Any human being with a heart or conscience wouldn’t behave like your ex. Consider yourself lucky you didn’t marry him – the pain of being discarded then would be far worse. You had a lucky escape – may not seem that way. Love yourself and find someone worthy of you. He is crazy – not you.
Thank you for this great post. I do find myself being stuck in a difficult situation of moving on from a relationship with a narcissistically inclined ex. We began dating back in 2010 and from the start he was very confused about the relationship we had. He was the one confessing to the relationship, yet he was also the one that after a month of seeing each other made remarks about the limitations of the relationship. I remember I was in the process of getting over an ex when him and I got together. I was very honest and expressive about my life and emotions from the start and I also remember sharing details of my life with him that I would otherwise not have shared with anyone else. Months after, I felt as if my past was being used against me. This could have been that I was also emotionally insecure, being anxious and scared of going through yet another break up. He didn’t help me much and more than anything added to my anxieties. He was a good person but oh so emotionally unavailable. More and more issues would arise, such as his need to see his ex, his flirtatious behaviour with his girl friends, and his need to be distant from me. I broke up with him once, took him back after he begged for nearly a month and after or reconciliation he became much worse. We had less fights but every once in a while he would tell me hurtful things. He used my genetic and family history against me by telling me we won’t be able to have a normal future, get married, or have children. He was very much under the influence of his parents. I should mention I am a cancer survivor and such remarks were damaging on a fundamental level. He also told me that my body was unattractive to him because of my “cellulites”. He lack in proper communication and often had angry outbursts which then we said because of me. I do admit to my anxieties, anger, and fear, which came through in the form of protesting behaviour (name calling i.e. you’re a coward, complaining, giving him the cold shoulder, and feeling resentment towards him). He also told me time to time that I was a burden for being highly sensitive. I started seeking counselling which then opened my eyes to the possibility of our relationship being toxic. I was told he has narcissistic tendencies, while being in essence a good person, his avoidance and lack of healthy communication at times of conflict, mean remarks, and withdrawn from our relationship every once in a while were red flags. I was also told I have codependency issues. My friends and therapist persuaded me to break up. I eventually broke up with him after 5 and a half years in September 2015. However, I find that after two months of no contact, I found myself back talking to him every once in a wile through text or phone. I saw him three times since. I now feel really broken. I feel regret, shame, guilt, hopeless, and I for some reason wish to resume a relationship with him. In the last 5 months of the relationship, my ex tried to persuade me into staying with him by apologizing and making attempts at seeing a counsellor, but I was too fed up to stay. I was angry and could not stand him. I am at aw of this state I am in after 6 months of break up. Why am I longing for that person and why am I stuck thinking of wanting a relationship with him? I told him I wish to give things a try, but he repeatedly mentioned he is confused and would like to figure his life out. He is not a bad person and I still have attraction and love for him and for his essence. I feel like I wanted and needed time to forgive but I never expected to get here. after 6/7 months, I am not sure how to proceed with my life, moving on, and letting go of a relationship and person that didn’t serve me and my needs. I don’t know why I still love him despite knowing we were toxic. He was my second serious partner and we met when I was 21 and when he was 22. I have tried dating others since the break up but they were unsuccessful. I feel like I am very bitter and have even questioned my sexuality. Through the process has been difficult, I have managed to take care of my needs. I picked up a new hobby, I take care of my body more, I eat well, I am now finishing up my master’s degree, have been spending more time with family and friends. I have also continued being in counselling which has helped me improve certain aspects of my life. I am just so confused about my break up and find myself battling the thoughts between staying broken up and getting back together, even when he tells me directly he is unsure and uncertain about our future. He does say he wouldn’t mind the thought of us being back but he needs to spend more time being separate before he can clear his head and decide. When I suggest no contact, he cries and begs me to not cut 100 percent contact. I hurt to see him sad and I also am tired of feeling hurt. I don’t like to just be in touch and have our dating and personal life on the side. I hate to be in a state of limbo, yet I myself find it difficult to complete cut contact. I even confronted him about this but he doesn’t agree with the no contact rule. There is a part of me that thinks my therapist and friends were wrong and I didn’t make the decisions from he bottom of my heart, and the break up has been a mistake. I’m not sure if I am the issue, if I am selfish and inconsiderate or if he is being manipulative and controlling even if he is not conscious of it and even if his intensions aren’t to hurt and break my heart. Any suggestions and advice with this emotional roller coater of emotions and heartbreak is really appreciated.
Bee, even if you were the issue, do NOT go back to this relationship. You are so young and have a whole lifetime to find the right person for you, don’t waste that life with the wrong one, please. He found your body unattractive (sorry, that’s an unforgivable thing to say, and will be the excuse he uses when he cheats on you). You can’t have a future or marriage or kids because of some perceived problem that can’t be fixed – you can’t change your heritage – Nat has a great post on this. This man will continue making you feel inadequate. This man will never commit to you. If you think you were the issue he will use this to push you down even further and silence you. YOU must now commit to loving you, and cutting all contact with him. You cannot sort out your issues while you are having any kind of a relationship with him. Trust your friends. They can see what is happening from the outside. His hesitation to go back to you is actually giving you a lifeline. Back up, do not pass go, do not collect another 5 years of misery. He is not a good fit for you. X
Thank you Liz for your comment. I have been making an effort not to check up on his social media, which has helped me immensely since Monday. He texted again though asking for help with something. It just baffles me how manipulative and narcissistic he can be after all the BS he said and did. I am at a better place since that conversation and can see that the relationship I had with him has left me traumatized and continues to if I allow it. It’s not all his fault, but my pain is real. I know I have to to this. The process as my therapist says is much like cleaning my system from an addictive drug. I’m trying my best to cleanse him out of life for good.
I have always believed in the “no contact” rule after ending a relationship. November 2014,I opted to get off the last merry-go-round ride with obsessive narcissist I was dealing with.
. I was wasting my time and energy on someone that would never reciprocate anywhere near as to what I bring to the table. He continued to try to engage as narcissists cannot believe when someone is over them and their antics.
He would reach out to try to speak to me, which I ignored, but at one point part of me broke and I spoke to him. He gave me a half hearted apology and admitted he didn’t handle things right. I accepted his half witted apology and snapped out of it. Told him that I needed to go.
He continued a few more times to which resulted in me pretending to be a boyfriend that had intercepted the message telling him “she’s moved on and you should too”. Lol. It felt good, redeeming in way to know his ego was brought back down to reality. It’s sad that some give narcissists so much power for them to feel that they can do whatever.
Nat, thanks so much for this post. It is timely for me when I am full of doubt. Sorry this is long. I left my husband after his abuse escalated last October after 18 months of marriage (smashed my phone when I rang my parents in a panic when he was screaming at me and falsely accusing me of meeting them when I was home late from my 12 hour on call, followed by pushing me then hitting my arms). I was left cut, bruised and shaken. There had been occasional ‘low level’ violence during our short marriage when he was angry – i was shoved, pinned against a wall, he threw a bottle at me that missed and bitten when he was drunk etc. I had rationalised it as ‘stress related’ or ‘he was too drunk to mean it’ as we had a lot going on with renovating a new home and he started a business. I had work stresses too. What concerned me more and left me a shadow of my former self was the emotional abuse. Every couple of months, he would get enraged for small ‘perceived insults’ that any reasonable person wouldn’t care about and would rage at me. Literally tear me to pieces and devalue me (things like, you’re lucky I’m here with you, you’re a waste etc) and I’d be left reeling. My confidence and self esteem got chipped away. I tried to raise my concerns that I thought he was emotionally abusive (Ironically as a GP means, deep down I knew what was happening and what constitutes abuse but his crazy making made me doubt myself) I was subjected to more anger, silent treatment for weeks and end up apologising to end the pain of his stonewalling. He said I was like vile women who make false allegations to the police about rape and abuse. I was grateful when he would ‘go back to normal’ and now see that i was never quite the same – he was never sorry, it was always my fault. He would threaten to end the marriage if ever conflict came up. He never agreed to couples counselling as I was the problem. I became a bit of a nervous wreck.
Three long painful and tough months passed after the violence escalated and we separated. What scared me was his initial complete lack of remorse and empathy. He didn’t contact me and didn’t care that his wife didn’t come home for the first week. I was too scared and broken to go home and couldn’t handle him blaming me again for his behaviour and minimising what happened. Everything was always my fault. He apologised and cried, brought flowers and promised to change once my father went round to talk to him and his parents found out (he was the golden child -oblivious to his dark side). I was shocked and confused as the entire time we had been together, I never saw him seem genuinely sorry any time he hurt me. I didn’t trust him. After that, he agreed to move out as I said I wanted space – he said he wanted to work it out with me and said all the times he threatened to leave me, he didn’t mean it. I said actions, consistency and honesty would show me if we could be together again and said he needed to see a therapist which he agreed (advised to tell the truth about his dark side not a version to make himself feel better) and sort out his drinking too (aggressive and abusive more with alcohol). The next 6 weeks he was trying to talk on the phone once a week and get back in the house but each time he was Backtracking and minimising about his violent. He took weeks to see a therapist. I broke down on the phone to him when he kept changing his story and denying how serious his abuse was. I kept saying I couldn’t take the mind games and just wanted honesty and consistency before I could even think about seeing him again. He never was the guy who apologised that first week, though I wished he was. He then started seeing a therapist and backed off with no explanation and when we finally met some 8 weeks after the violence, it was about ‘how unhappy HE is’ and not sure what he wanted. The entire marriage already was all about HIM and his needs and controlling me. His anger towards ME and how I didn’t act or do what he wanted was the theme. I couldn’t understand how after everything he did, he was turning it around to be about him again. I guess that’s a narcissistic for you. I was strong the first 6 weeks and then when he starting pulling back, I felt crushed again. He was succeeding in getting back in control again. Why did I want him to love me? I was ready to leave after he hit me and it was HIM who asked for a chance. My counsellor said it was like I was asking a man with no arms to catch a ball when I asked where his empathy was. Before Christmas, I thought we connected and seemed like there was a shift, he told me he still loved me and wanted to wait a bit longer when I said it seemed there was nothing left and he said he wanted to keep in touch over Christmas. He then made no effort again and it seemed to be a misunderstanding. I then I got a guilt trip. The mind games were making me feel awful and anxious. In the new year I said we should go for marriage counselling or end it as I refused to go back to the type of marriage we had and we had made little progress. The limbo was awful. I didn’t ever want to be scared of him again. He agreed to go for couples counselling after a few weeks, still adamant that he wanted to ‘work it out’ yet his actions suggested otherwise as he barely contacted me or made effort. I felt so down and knew in my heart there was nothing left yet part of me hoped for a miracle, wanted him to come good on all the promises he made when we first separated. I didn’t want a divorce, start again with all my dreams shattered. I wanted him to be the guy I Fell in love with who I married. We had a home, the next step was babies. To the outside world, he was amazing: handsome, charismatic and friendly with a good job.
I saw his car outside our home and called him to finalise our meeting and he didn’t bother to call back for over 24 hours. I felt disrespected again and called to find out why he didn’t return my call yet again after we discussed the importance of gaining trust and respectful communication. He made excuses and clearly lied. I told him we needed to meet the following day and have a serious talk and when I said that, he said I was worrying him and what about. I reassured him and said we should meet face to face. He cancelled the day we were meant to meet with a text stating he had to go out of town suddenly to see his parents and would call later. I was concerned my father in law was sick. I sent a message that night saying I was worried when I hadn’t heard from him. The following day he said sorry for not calling and what time was I free. I was in the middle of my surgery and had a break and said to call me then as I was worried about my father in law.
He rang to say it was ‘over’ and he had seen a solicitor who had said ‘not to talk to me’. I was stunned. I asked him what he had done? He talked completely devoid of emotion, like the separation had been his idea. I was so shocked, I couldn’t understand how he was ending our marriage on the phone. He said ‘I didn’t admit anything to anyone’ – it was so chilling and callous. It was the most traumatic event of my life. He had discarded me like I was nothing. Next thing I knew, I received a divorce petitioner on email which had been filed with the courts so I had no way to ask for amendments – he stated, I was the aggressor and that he left our home after false allegations. I was sick to my stomach. I had been told so many times to go to the police and report him but due to our careers, love and hope it would work out, hadn’t had the guts. A solicitor friend urged me to report what he had done as I was left in a vulnerable position with him having keys to our home. The police took it seriously as I had so much evidence about what had happened though medical records, texts and my diaries. It was clear the divorce petition was his ‘defence’ when I hadn’t even made an allegation in print and he was worried I was going to divorce him. Nat wrote the narcissist think ‘eat or be eaten’ and my husband had told me his mentality was ‘hunt or be hunted’! I feared he would hunt me and it seems he tried.
Now he is in bail. He claimed I assaulted him and he didn’t touch me, my phone slipped and fell. It’s farcical. I don’t know if the courts will charge him, he was arrested for assault, criminal damage and coercive control, a new law.
The divorce is on hold and I just want this to be over. This is my worst nightmare. I still have doubts that he is a narcissist believe it or not. I remember his parting words and that I brought out the worst in him and I am bad too. Did I push him to act in such a heinous way? I dream of him every night and feel so lost. I never thought the marriage would end so violently. I don’t know how I will get over this.
You didn’t bring out the worst in him or push him into reacting that way; you’ve just seen who he really is and who he’d eventually be with any woman. Isn’t he the one who was showing major red flags even when you were just going out? So that was the start of him showing his true nature – it’s just it ALL came out once he had ‘caught’ you in marriage.
Yes there were red flags but I was head over heels in love with him by then and had lost my virginity to him and thought he was ‘the one’, couldn’t have predicted in a million years it would have got so messy. I can’t help but question my contribution to this but I know I could never have acted the way he did it ever ‘discarded’ the way he did and tell one lie after another. Chilling. Can’t switch off. Keep thinking I’ll wake up and it will be a bad dream.
Yes I know that you would have been head over heels after some time; but what I’m getting at is that some red flags would have been there *before* you got to the stage of sleeping with him, right? You said yourself further up that you now see charm as a red flag….which it usually is. There are always signs that you’re in the presence of a personality-disordered man. Even if he was appearing to be sweetness and light before you slept with him, charm itself often indicates that someone’s wearing a mask to try to get what they want out of you. When men try that with me it’s always counter-productive because it gets all my suspicions going and I get into detective mode.
All I’m meaning is that you obviously realise now for the future that it’s a case of needing to have your spidey senses operating on all cylinders before trusting someone – this all needs to be done in the early stages of dating. Good luck though with extricating yourself from this individual. I hope you’re going to hire a decent solicitor to help as sounds like your husband has taken the gloves off with his false accusations!
Thanks. He has now been charged and will be going to court, the gloves are off. I hope there will be justice.
Maya, it was hard to read your account because it sounds so painful. You’re suffering from cognitive dissonance and maybe even a touch of PTSD after your bizarre experience. Please keep educating yourself on personality disorders like narcissism, this will help you along the road to recovery.
While I was educating myself on Cluster B personality disorders, I read something which sounded horribly blunt, but it hit me with a clue-by-four. A psychologist said something like — I’ll paraphrase heavily — ‘Psychopathic/Sociopathic personality disorder, like every other personality disorder, is PERMANENT and PERVASIVE. Let me explain. It doesn’t come and go, it doesn’t come in waves, it doesn’t get better or worse, it doesn’t happen sometimes in some situations and then not in others. It can’t be trained in. It doesn’t change. It affects their entire being, head to toe, inside and out, 24/7, forever. Hoping that a psychopath will somehow come to understand their condition, and then work to improve it or alter their responses and behaviour, is exactly like expecting a person with Down’s Syndrome to do the same thing. Impossible.’
Whilst many people with disorders such as Down’s can have limited capacity developing intellect, having a personality disorder does not necessarily affect intellectual development. This is why they can develop astonishing coping mechanisms which they use to train themselves to imitate empaths and be accepted in society, to trick and manipulate people, to get what they want — before inevitably finding themselves caught, cornered, flushed out, or just sick of the whole caper of pretending to feel things, to have a conscience, to dream, to behave acceptably. It’s a shock to find what’s underneath.
Thanks Griselda. I read your comment a few times to get it in my head. I think I do have a little PTSD and think I need to find a therapist who specialises in trauma. He and the situation has really got under my skin. It’s so bizarre and unreal. The tough part is accepting I fell in love with someone capable of creating so much havoc. Your last sentence said it all ‘before inevitably finding themselves caught, cornered, flushed out, or just sick of the whole caper of pretending to feel things, to have a conscience, to dream, to behave acceptably. It’s a shock to find what’s underneath.’
Griselda,
Have you read up on pro social psychopaths? I do not see them mentioned too often, but, essentially, they know they have a problem, they do not know empathy, but they learn to mimic the behavior. It can be so convincing!
Hi Paula, and yes I have! Educating yourself about the behaviour of socio/psychopaths is fascinating and horrifying stuff, but a MUST-DO for any adult. An offshoot of the same personality disorder cluster, I think it’s fair to say, is the narcissist. We empaths need to get it into our brains that they do not choose or control their behaviour any more than small children do. We don’t expect a four year old to achieve the emotional and mental maturity of a 20 year old just because we explain to them again and again that we don’t want them doing four-year-old behaviour any more.
Maya,
It doesn’t matter if he’s a narcissist or not. He’s abusive. That makes him a bad person. He won’t change. It’s not your fault. Those are facts.
You write as though you are a doctor. If you are, how would you counsel a patient that came to you telling you even half of the things you wrote about here? Or a good friend of yours? I expect you would try to firstly help ensure her safety by getting her away from the abuser. Then recommend counselling. It’s time to treat yourself the same way.
No woman ever expects or wants to be in abusive relationship. Being in one changes brain function. You can & will recover if you take the right steps. There is a lot of help out there for you if you look for it. Take care of yourself.
Thank you Crystal. Yes I am a doctor and when I was with him, I thought I should be able to fix the situation. I thought there is a small chance he can get help and we *might* be ok: I loved him and had high hopes when we married. No woman wants or expects to be an abusive relationship but I felt like such a failure for being in it. I have put too much emphasis on his words that ‘I brought out the worst in him.’ He said he had not had these issues with anyone else so the part of me that blames myself for being in this mess takes over. If my patient or a friend came in, yes I’d say leave, you’ll be ok, he won’t change. It’s not you, it’s him. It’s hard being on the other side and take that advice. I have got a counsellor just don’t seem to make much progress. I think it will take time to heal.
Maya,
You are SO the opposite of a failure! It would be your impulse to fix things as a doctor. It’s a great impulse to have in your work. But you must also know that there are so many illnesses without known cause or cure. Perhaps it would help you to view him as such.
His issues far pre-date ever having met you. Most abusers have many behaviours in common. Lying is absolutely one of them! You “bringing out the worst in him” is one of his many lies. No matter how many times he says it, that doesn’t ever make it true.
It’s absolutely not something to get over quickly. It will take time & won’t be easy, but you can do it! You are progressing even if you don’t feel it yet. Emotional abuse is a tough one and the first steps to get over it will be small ones. Bigger ones will follow. You might want to try working on forgiving yourself too.
And remember, you’ve got this!
Thanks Crystal, really appreciate it. I have good moments where I feel stronger (especially when I come on here and read Nat’s points – it seems so obvious that he was disordered) and can feel low and deserted when I get home and have ‘nothing’. I am used to working at things. Now, I don’t have a tough marriage to work on, just a void and no closure which I am trying to get through working on my own. I will use that – think of him as ‘uncurable’! xx
I have put too much emphasis on his words that ‘I brought out the worst in him.’ He said he had not had these issues with anyone else so the part of me that blames myself for being in this mess takes over.
That is a lie, my Narcissist was having difficulty having sex with me/ showing any kind of affection. And he said he couldn’t believe it, that it had never happened before.
Until one day he told me that it happened before with others, but since they were short term flings, none of the women brought up the significance of it.
So he is basically lying and putting the blame on you for pointing something out. He surely had the issue before you pointed it out.
This is a very toxic personality disorder and nothing healthy is really possible. The person is not essentially well. You are not dealing with someone interested in ever living in reality.
Great timing. I have been doing an awful lot of reading on narcissists and sociopaths over the last few days and it seems that there are some key, but subtle, differences.
I have been involved with men in the past who fit the narcissist traits that NML describes here and, to be honest, I think they are preferable to dealing with a sociopath (which is what I strongly suspect the married man who I got tangled up with is) as interactions with Ns seem to have shorter lifespans.
Narcs are actually masking a very fragile sense of self esteem, so they’ll either discard you for new novel supply or, as NML says here, because they ultimately loose respect for anyone who actually likes them.
They can’t stand criticism though, so my experience of going NC on N men (like the type NML has described in this piece) is that they end up hating you when you go NC, because you refused to join the harem and play nice as a discarded source of supply who he has on layaway.
What’s more, if you try and call an N out on his behaviour pre NC, it pretty much guarantees that the N will really, really hate you and not want to engage with you further.
Sociopaths, however, are much rarer, and a bigger mind f***. They are similar to N’s, with the charm offensive in the beginning, which then changes, but a key difference with a sociopath seems to be that they are unafraid of pretending to apologise and play on your guilt/sympathy if it will get them what they want. Where an N would just respond to confrontation by discarding you because you’re not playing his game the sociopath will use a combination of faux apologies and guilt tripping, to the extent that you wind up feeling awful for even trying to cut them off and you find yourself apologising to them for your attempt to go NC.
I also like NML’s point about why care if the guy has full blown narcissistic PD, as recognising Narc traits should be enough to make you want to run.
I was admittedly splitting hairs by reading up on how sociopaths operate. Regardless of whether or not he is a full blown sociopath, me simply recognising that the MM (who I am trying to rid myself of) resorts to machiavellian levels of manipulation whenever I try and cut him off, should be enough to make me stick to going NC once and for all.
E, I think that’s spot on, explains a lot.
This is a wonderful article. I wasn’t going to comment on it, because I didn’t see an need to add anything more. I know that I’ve been extremely attracted to narcissistic types, that it has to do with my childhood, and, a bit uncomfortably, that *I* tend to exhibit narcissistic behavior sometimes. OK. Then, I watched a video comparing various Meyers-Briggs personality types. I know the types are not perfect, but if you have any interest in this psychology, I would suggest to watch out if you are an introverted feeler, especially INFP or ISFP. I am one, and these types experience our own feelings more loudly and clearly than the feelings of others, making empathy more challenging than for extravert feelers. It’s easy for us to get caught up in ourselves and our own feelings, and become narcissistic if things don’t go right. I thought that was interesting.
One of the worst things I noticed about narcissist is their lack of empathy. They can look you right in the face and do something hurtful and have absolutely no remorse for what they’ve done. I can’t imagine intentionally hurting sometime and then stand their and watch them cry and have no expression at all!
This is how I knew there was something deeply wrong with him! The ones that discard you for somebody else then have the nerve to try to comeback acting like nothing happened! No apologies at all.
The only time they ACT like they care is when you ignore them! Then all of sudden they want your attention. I bet they have the nerve to feel rejected once you stopped dealing with the b.s.. They are a piece of work. My advice IGNORE, IGNORE & IGNORE! They go away eventually.
I recently had my world turned upside down by someone who liked playing mind games with me. I don’t know if he was a narcissist but, so much of the commentary here resonates with me.
I am not ashamed to admit that he broke my heart. But the fact of the matter is that he did not value me, so I had to be ruthless. I finished what he started & shattered what was left of my heart by ignoring any further efforts of his to re-establish contact. It was one of the toughest internal battles I’ve ever fought but I could not back down. I knew that if I did, I would be dismissing who I was as a woman.
I know my worth & I will not allow anyone into my life who does not treat me with mutual respect. Sometimes, you must be brave enough to break your own heart.
Mine is to thank you so much from the bottom of my heart for all the lives I believe you save through your writing, because I know you saved mine. This note s long overdue. I actually discovered your writing in 2009 while trying so hard to break free from a narcissistic man-at the time I didn’t understand what he was, couldn’t believe how he had changed to a monster, I couldn’t believe how I was doing things so out of character that I knew myself to be…all I knew is that I was in the process of literally going out of my mind, I could feel myself going madder each day and I had absolutely no one to talk to as I was living in another country with no family or friends close by. I wanted to die because being awake was just too painful and confusing. There I was scouring the internet for clues on what was going on and I found some helpful reading but when I saw yours I devoured your entire archive in just a few days and have looked forward to each piece eagerly. I learned from the articles what was going on and how to get away from such a person. It was through you that I was able to initiate No Contact and finally move on without wanting to go back ever again. He couldn’t believe it!! He kept calling every other time to see if I was still receptive of him until I returned to my country. You also helped me break free from a narcissistic friend whom I had at the same time and other situations as well. I apply your advice to all areas of my life, really. I can honestly say that after more than 5 years, I still have major trust issues but every day is one of recovery and you still help me. God Bless you so much and the day I came across your work
Thanks to posts like this one, the world is becoming a better place. People are informed and informing each other about personality disorders. Being able to get educated, share information, to detect and identify the manipulation, the mind games, and predict the inevitable devastation before we allow it to happen, means we now have an advantage we never had before. Narcissists are going to find it impossible to get any booty under these conditions!
‘Narcissists are going to find it impossible to get any booty under these conditions!’
Unfortunately for every person who’s enlightened there are thousands more who aren’t though! I always wonder why, in the age of the internet with all the resources that brings, more people STILL aren’t well-versed on personality disorders etc.
I cut my narc off a few weeks ago. Now I heard he’s befriended the boyfriend of my good friend.
Should I be worried?
Parker,
I would remain mum. You can never really control a person other than yourself. I would continue no contact and do not mention your past narc to your friend other than to politely ask that she not mention him unless it’s an emergency that regards your health. Stay away. Just be polite and absent about it (but not absent minded).
Number 12 is chilling. As angry as I was with my ex, I don’t know that I ever wanted him to hurt. Someone getting off (even if it’s just a fleeting ego thing) on pain they have caused is so unbelievably unsettling and creepy.
That’s what got me. With the vanity, boasting, search for validation, I could think, ‘ok this isn’t great, but might be a phase, he’s just had a big ego bruising, maybe he’s a bit of a tw*t, we’ve all got our flaws and he has many brilliant qualities’. But then appeared sadistic behaviour that is an absolute deal breaker. The bizarre, irrelevant put-downs – I care too much what others think, because I’m explaining to him what I did to improve my drawing?! The deliberate attempt to create insecurity and competition by talking of others who are giving the same things. It’s not our place to diagnose or label people, but very helpful to see there are names and explanations for these particular patterns of behaviour. I find it fascinating but my heart goes out to people living with it 24/7. I did once and took a long time to rebuild, I came out feeling like I was nothing. But now have the strength both to open my heart and take risks, and to quit when my values are in question. When it comes to narcs, knowledge is power!
I loved him so much. I believed in him. He was the love of my life and it was all a lie. He’s told me that he can’t feel empathy, that he has trouble with anger and most recently that he’s “never thought about the effect of my actions on the people around me.” He’s in his 40s and married with two kids and he’s never thought about the effects of his actions on others. I suffer from obsessive thoughts and ptsd. I think about him all the time even though I’ve cut him off and blocked him on every device. I work with him so he’s still in my life. He watches me all the time. He stares at me and studies me and has told me all the ways in which he watches me. I feel totally vulnerable. Everyone thinks he a wonderful person, a great guy, a wonderful family man. Behind the mask he’s kind of scary. I hate that I can’t get over him. After all these years (it’s been almost 4 years since this madness started) and I just can’t move on. The narcissist is a truly evil figure. If I had known I would have run away as fast as possible.
Thank you Lenore you have just expressed my thoughts entirely in a nut shell. I think this type of personality leaves you questioning your own mental stability. How can someone come into your life like a whirlwind, treat you like a princess and make you feel so loved up one minute and then dismiss you as if you never existed and got rid of like trash! It is now almost 6 years since my dismissal by the narcissist that I still, on occasion feel like it was all a dream! Unfortunately it became a nightmare and I will not let this damaged, sadistic non entity occupy my thoughts anymore.
Just started really looking at the relationship between codependents and narcissists/disordered individuals. It’s truly frightening. They prey upon our weaknesses and vulnerability. Our reactions give them power over us and we end up unconsciously handing over our emotional selves to them. We re-enact an old familiar pattern.
I’m just coming to understand their sadistic conditioning and how it plays on my masochistic conditioning. Sam Vaknin, a self-proclaimed narcissist, stated that “what the narcissist seeks is the pleasure of your destruction.” Chilling stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaVn5IPlUvo
Veracity,
Thanks for sharing this video. Educational. You are right is is chilling. Some people play these type of games merely to destroy another human.
He said to perserve your health you just have to move on. I read back over Nat’s blog on narcissists. Wow.
MJ
Constant, sweet attention is replaced with dismissive silence.
You feel deeply connected, but then are discarded without warning.
The Best Guy Ever transforms into a stranger, and a Jekyll and Hyde show down erupts.
Plans and promises for the future disappear into thin air.
Happiness turns to suffering.
You are swiftly replaced by someone else.
Welcome to the world of cognitive dissonance.
Who is this person? What just happened? Is this for real? Nothing makes sense. Did I miss something? Why am I upset and he is so calm? Where was the transparency? People don’t just shape shift in the blink of an eye.
Unless. They. Have. Pathological. Traits.
Sometimes they keep your things. You are replaced and forgotten. You may feel traumatized and grief stricken, like an addict. Your body is telling you that something is very wrong. People will think you’re over reacting, and that you’ll be okay in a couple weeks. When you’re not, you’ll search the Internet for answers. You’ll do almost anything to relieve the relentless, horrific torture. You didn’t even know you could feel this bad. You do think maybe YOU are the crazy one. You want answers, and evidence, and closure. But he won’t give you that.
Thank you Natalie, for acknowledging that these situations exist. For myself, I’m like the one jury member hold out, still deliberating.
Say something….I couldn’t have said that better myself. That’s exactly what you go through. I’m still deliberating myself, not sure I’ll ever reach a verdict. I’ll never truly know who or what I was dealing with. Was he just an assclown, narc, sociopath, malignant sociopath maybe? So many questions and no real answers, only speculation.
Thanks for your post… It just Reminds me I am not the crazy one and there are other people in the same situation. So hard so recognize everything was just fake…
Say Something,
I really understand what you mean about being the one jury member hold out, still deliberating. (I like the way you put that.) I do it. I am just thankful it is not like it was early on. Today, I drifted back to what happened. Hate it. I guess I am thinking about it because I am preparing to go on a 13 day vacation alone to a beautiful place (where couples will be for sure). I have a plan in place to enjoy myself (leave the cold and head for the sun). I HOPE.
I am packing tonight after planning for this trip and the excitement that should be there isn’t. This hurts. But I am going to make the best of it. It is days like this one that I reflect and analyze about what happened. I am stunned. I am trying to focus on myself and my future. You mentioned in another post that you don’t celebrate your birthday anymore. You should try. My birthday is coming up and I decided to travel to a place I have DREAMED of going to for years. I am going to celebrate. I felt the same way you did about my birthday. This year I am going to celebrate. But I get what you feel. Big hug.
When the weather changes-NYC-your choice of play-on me. Send me good vibes that this vacation is all I have planned it to be. Natalie a NYC workshop would be lovely.
MJ
Good Morning Mary Jane,
Sending you every good thought for a wonderful vacation (birthday celebration)! You are so brave to go after what you want! You are NOT letting anything or anyone stop you and that is so courageous and inspiring. I hope for you, that you fully enjoy your trip, and that you remain open to how wonderful it will be. I KNOW your circumstances aren’t ideal, but you are creating a new path, and that’s the best you can be.
I’ve heard from several people that ‘Hamilton’ is a must see. We can start with a two person workshop 🙂
Take care, soak in the sun, sink into the sand, and dance your ass off! I’m wondering how many pairs of heels you’re packing:)
Say Something,
Thanks so much for sending me positive vibes. I just cleared airport security and there were so many couples. I will be fine. I decided this morning not to go negative. I am solo because I am going to an exotic place for sun and relaxation. Zen.
Yes for Hamilton. YAY! I heard it is wonderful. This trip is one just before my big birthday trip. I am attempting to join a tour group for that trip of a lifetime.
I take BR with me no matter where I go. I can’t wait till we see Hamilton and celebrate our birthdays.
I packed so many pairs of heels that they told me to shift them to another bag or PAY. I shifted them. LOL. I’m gonna follow your instructions and dance my ass off. I will be in da club. Here I go.
NYC MAY??????
MJ
MJ,
Love the heel story!!! Yes, a day in May will be perfect as long as I know enough in advance. Keep thriving, enjoy, stay safe!
Oh dear me. Couldn’t have been said better, so short but sweet descriptions of the crazy makings! That is exactly what I went through.
While I think education is good (everyone could benefit from a basic Psych 101, as how else would we learn about our own psyches?), labeling can become a huge trap.
It is much easier to throw our hands up in the air and go, “I’ve got it! He or she is a…! There it is; my work here is done.” But no no no no, the real issue (the crown jewel) is backtracking to what lead us to the ill-fated situation.
In my 4 years involved with BR, I have never, I mean NEVER, encountered a situation in which a reader could not admit to having at least one red flag present before they choose to begin on a very shady path with a very shady folk.
I’m not saying place blame on self, just take responsibility for the fact that one must walk away quickly from trouble, not dance with it for a bit, or a while, or a lifetime.
The best thing you can take from being heartbroken is to know what breaks a heart and do not seek that or stay with it or play with it from then on.
Also, I’d advise letting the psychologists to the absolute diagnosis and work on understanding the key components of abusive relationships and how to avoid them. Again, as I have referred, the Duluth Models are excellent, http://www.theduluthmodel.org/training/wheels.html, and the back section of Mr Unavailable and the FallbackGirl (Nat’s book) wherein red flag issues are described along with what to do remains absolutely fantastic.
Safe and sound journeys xx
Jennifer
I absolutely agree. Our downfall is that we choose to ignore the negative & acknowledge only the positive.
It s so good to read you. I have been involved with an assclown for the past 4 years. 2 weeks ago I asked him to stop playing with my feelings and get out of my life. He didn’t answer and I still feel horrible for writing that message and not giving him a ‘ proper ‘ goodbye. Despite all the lies and manipulations it s still hard to recognize that he is an assclown and didn’t give a s** about me…
I think I’ve been involved with a narcisst for 3 half years, he was on dating site married and contacted me we got talking he was very charming long story short we had a affair where he kept finishing it every couple of months but always come back. Last year he and his wife split up and he rang me we were over he was seeing some one else!!! I was devasted he was so cold and awful. He got back in touch months later he has a flat getting divorced, back on dating site am on, and still seeing that women but was stringing me along to keep me as back up!! Had enough no more no contact from now on he is toxic.
hi, guys, i haven’t commented here in years. hope you and your family are well, natalie.
what got me about this post was:
1- “There isn’t a ‘solution’ to their narcissism, so all the people pleasing in the world or trying to find a magic solution to make them become who they presented as at the beginning or during the ‘good times’, just blocks your exit from the cycle.”
and
2- “On one hand, they enjoy the adulation but they punish you for ‘mocking’ them even though it’s not what you’re doing, or because of their low self-worth, you’re punished for being one of the ‘fools’ who doesn’t see through them. Yeah, you can’t win.”
in other words:
– you can’t fix them
– they are the way they are, and that has nothing to do with you, i.e., you didn’t make it happen
– they may even know they’re full of it, but even that is YOUR fault. EVERYTHING they do is justified in their mind
i am still struggling with a shatteringly dramatic experience i had with a pretty classic narcissist a few years ago. i’m still judging myself for not walking away.
Great article and best advice EVER at the end….
“If you’ve been (or you suspect you have been) involved with a narcissist, please ensure that you not only get professional support if you’re finding it difficult to exit the relationship or figure out how to move on, but that you also share your struggle with a trusted loved one so that you stop being isolated in the chaos of your involvement.”
I was so isolated in my shame for the abuse I was tolerating due to being vulnerable and insecure after my 30 year marriage ended. Old flame came back to town and took full advantage – I was literally a sitting duck. So angry at myself for falling for his lies then subsequently tolerating his verbal, mental and physical abuse for EIGHT YEARS !
I am no contact AGAIN but this time have told my story so have the support I should have reached out for a very long time ago.
I robbed myself of too many years with these two narcissistic emotionally unavailable men and I am done.
I feel happy, lighter and filled with hope. I am looking forward to my next chapter in life filled with self respect and gratitude for having survived them and will thrive in my future.
Thank you Nat from the bottom of my heart for being you and for sharing your knowledge.
God Bless
The worst thing about narcissists is that they make you feel like their world in the beginning. They are amazing. Then after a couple of months the texts dwindle, they blow up at nothing, disappear for days or weeks but still popping in saying sweet things to keep you hooked and wanting the original person to come back. They never do.
Can you imagine What that does to the victim’s well being? I was suicidal and yet he’s out there, famous and on the prowl for new victims.
I agree with you Parker! I think its almost like an addict feels – they constantly chase the feeling of their “first high” .
I was at my utmost lowest when my ex high school flame came to town. He said all the right things and made me feel special. For about a minute lol then the real him reared it’s ugly head but I spent 8 years “chasing” & “waiting” for the nice guy to come back.
All lies.
I know. I wish I didn’t miss him, I really do.
I have heard he’s a mess and being very self destructive. What’s funny is I was JUST starting to get over him and bam-he befriends someone connected to me. Now he’s in my head yet again.
It will get better… believe me . Better to grieve and be done than to keep ripping off the bandage … over and over and over again.
Every time he disappeared on a drinking binge anywhere from two days to two weeks I would finally be feeling better and poof ! There he was again. I’m sorry , it’s my addiction, I love you , please forgive me…. blah blah blah. Sad and embarrassing thing is I put up with his crumbs and disrespectful behavior. 8 years is a long time to waste on someone who doles out crumbs. You deserve better .
If you want change BE the change ! Sending ((hugs))
Nat, it’s so incredible you’ve given us this gift of a place to go. I felt a lot of shame chasing after a man who treated me like crap, and even more shame thinking I hurt him when I finally went no contact (he couldn’t have cared less by the way). I couldn’t talk to my friends about it, they all adore him. Charming, sweet, accomplished, famous… yup, I must be the nut job who brought out the worst in him. It makes me feel safe and understood to see this guy in everyone’s posts, to see myself too. It’s healing to have that affirmation and is truly a source of strength on bad days when I think of him or have feelings of self-doubt. Thank u for this sisterhood you’ve created, and for all you do.
Mine is famous too and puts on the charm to everyone…and he did with me until his true self came out.
Be glad he’s gone. It takes time to heal, but it does happen. Hugs.
Well he couldn’t be that famous…I never heard of the dolt…. I’ve heard of you… I’ve read about you… You were a heroine in a scary movie… Remember??? Yeah that one…the same one we all were in… You were the Savior of your beautiful SELF… That AMAZON of a WOMAN that made her way through the learnings of a lifetime!!! You SACRIFICED…. You are no ACTOR. You are REAL…. And that is famous.
I dated a narcissist for 4 years, and his pattern was ALWAYS the same from the start. Their were HUGE red flags, one being his OWN family talking badly about him. Yet, I never left him. He is a liar, and a cheater he has destroyed me in every way possible. We have a son together, and 4 years later he is still the same horrible person I met. He left me and my son for someone else and Brags about her. He has no respect for the family he left behind. He is selfish and a manipulator. I recently started seeing a psychologist to deal with all the anger and saddens. I am a wonderful mother and a strong college educated woman. Unfortunately, I let this narcissistic 25 year old boy degrade me, and I lost who I am in the process. I loved him more than I loved myself. I hope I can get my self esteem back soon and be the woman I was before I met him.
One of the many scary moments are when you see that ‘evil smile’. It rarely makes an appearance but when it does – it is like being in the presence of a stranger. Actually, that’s not a good way to describe it because it implies you are in denial. That person is not a stranger, that person is the man you love and have love for years but the inner snake (read that on another site) comes through every once in a while.
Scary stuff…
Personally I would compare the ‘evil smile’ to more like a smirk because I experienced this on a number of occasions, its almost like they have something they have just done and know that you don’t know what they have done – if that makes sense?
I am puzzled by the fact that my spouse behaviour seemed to deteriorate significantly over about the last 3 years. I realise now that he definitely had NPD characteristics going back decades, but we seemed to have kept his conduct under some degree of control, and he was a loving and good father. But our children reached adulthood and essentially started living their own lives. He is now quite off the rails in terms of conduct, left our marriage and has cut himself off from his children. Having done so, he then demanded we share our marital home and he moves in with his new woman! He didn’t succeed in this, but isn’t this completely weird and irrational?
oh yeah, totally get it. I have found a few friends who understand the crazy part of it. Just explaining the weird things doesn’t make any sense unless you have been involved with one. The thing that was super weird was how we (me and the children) were an extension of him. Like it would throw him into confusion when I liked something different than he would. Or his memories included me when I wasn’t there (he talked about college and reminded me of how we were in a certain class but I had a totally different major, weird). The narc-injuries could be scary too,
I am a really strong person, I always was so it caused a lot of conflict. But I am also really empathetic so when the narcissistic conflict would pass I would go back to understanding him and it really drained me. It took a long time to realize he did have some control over his actions and he was responsible for them. Then it was over, I was exhausted and hurt so despite the struggles I have had as a single mom I needed to do it.
Funny thing is that we had a really amazing conversation a few weeks ago. I think that he gets into deeply narcissistic times but there is more to him than that (not that I have ever considered going back, he is not safe). He asked my advice, we had a good conversation and he seemed to be dealing with his ego a little. Wow. His image of himself could not last forever so I am glad he is working with it.
In any case thank you for this article, It was really clear.
Eli, don’t feel horrible u went no contact via writing him instead of face to face. Sometimes given a difficult and emotional time, it’s the best way to make your feelings known without the added stress of seeing him face to face or him having the opportunity to talk u out of it. I tried many times over the years to go no contact face to face because as we all know, we get to a realization we have to get off the painful self esteem-robbing merry go round of hot/cold and disrespectful behavior and a relationship that’s not working (and is likely toxic). But each time I’d be face to face with him he’d talk me out of it, and I’d leave feeling important to him and cared about. Wouldn’t last long of course, as his actions said otherwise not long after. Be proud u put YOU first and had the clarity and courage to decide enough is enough, which is far more important than how that message was delivered. ((Hugs))
Excellent post. Thank you for sharing your advice.
Thanks so much for your wonderful writings. Reading these pages and replies is getting me through each day. Currently on NC, and have been for a week – last Sunday my Narc told me via email all the things wrong with me, called ME a narc with an anger problem, and finished it by saying ‘this is why I cant be with you.’
After almost 6 years, I know I MUST stick to this, this time. Have tried to leave, and broke up prob about 20 times. Each time, the silent treatment, the passive aggressive game playing coupled with a few crumbs of a good person, has pulled me back in.
I know it’s because of childhood abandonment issues, and I am trying to find some online resources to heal that part of me. There have been regular red flags (telling me to ‘cheer up’ only a few weeks after my father passed away, secretly contacting his ex and going to her for an ego stroke after we had rows, telling me it was ME causing his panic attacks and depression, the list is endless..)
I have tried to keep busy, but just feel like laying in bed and feeling sorry for myself. I have a few other ‘admirers’, lovely chaps who on paper would make a wonderful partner, but they just don’t ‘do it ‘ for me (which im also aware is likely due to only being comfortable in dramatic turmoil relationships since childhood).
It’s his birthday on Tues, and he know that I had a weekend booked and paid for, and things arranged which have cost me, and cannot be altered. I’m going to struggle this week I know, but whenever I do, I add to my notebook which I have been writing in, all the crappy unreasonable and downright unbelievable stuff he’s said and done to me.
I feel at the moment that I am put of relationships completely forever. I know this will fade – love the ‘fallback girl’ and ‘no contact’ download books which I look at every time I am feeling weak. cant see an end out of the fog at the moment, and fear the lonliness, but each day at a time I suppose.
this man is 50 on tues, and if he hasn’t changed now, he never will..i however, still hope that I am young enough (42) to find the ‘one’, and feel very angry at myself for ignoring all the flags (when I knew something was very bad and I ignored them). Should have left after 8 weeks..the signs were there, but I was just out of another breakup and was feeling vulnerable.
I shall keep using the books – thanks so much online saviours…your site is slowly convincing me that I haven’t in fact, as ive been told over and over, that im’ mentally ill! Thans from the bottom of my heart x
Classic projection on his part. good riddance!
Thank you so much! I’ve been recovering from a relationship with a narcissist for some time and you really did nail down all the points that describe just how consuming it can be. They are like emotional sponges that soak up, and drain you, of all esteem and respect you have for yourself with no end in sight. Your final point, “
Thank you so much! I’ve been recovering from a relationship with a narcissist for some time and you really did nail down all the points that describe just how consuming it can be. They are like emotional sponges that soak up, and drain you, of all esteem and respect you have for yourself with no end in sight. Your final point, “If you have it in you to love, to empathise, to recognise right from wrong and truly see and connect with other humans, the spiritual task of the narcissist is to force you to take on the task of being responsible for and loving you, because it is only by doing so that they (and the pain) go away and you finally become open to experiencing real, sustainable love from within and outside of you,” is so spot on.
About a year ago I became friends with a man I worked with on and off for years. Circumstances dictated that I now work with him more closely. It was clear that this normally closed, guarded guy described as ‘unemotional” by ppl who’d known him a long time took an interest in me. He’d linger after meetings, walk me to them; we’d go to lunch and talk about our lives and families. We even made a trip together- he was driving for vacation to a state my aunt lived in and invited me along for a 20 hour round trip. It was seemless, like we’d done it before. Our likes, interests, (distorted) family history and personalities were so similar; we felt comfortable with eachother. After the trip – a bit frustrated at his lack of advancing this and 7 mos into our friendship- I told him I’d like to advance our friendship to another level. He declined, saying we worked together. I reduced our contact, but still stayed friendly. We seemd to heat up again in Nov before- long story shortened – he emailed me out of the blue to say he could no longer be my friend because of my romantic feelings for him -keeping in mind I’d said nothing to that effect, was never physical etc. However I admit i still had some feelings for him, although it was only one foot in. Why?
Because I knew he was EU. I’ve had deep experience with EUM and had taken the last several years to work on myself to avoid the next EUM. Interestingly I did figure out why he is EU- he most likely has aspergers. The more comfortable he became with me, the more it showed (I have an aspie brother). And yet i stuck it out in the friendzone, knowing apsies can love but don’t show it well. I “gave” him chances to tell me he cared, thinking he was not my typical ass EUM but a guy with a legit disability. How does this relate? Aspies exhibit many qualities of a narcissist. This list and others like it have helped me to understand him and try and release my connection. And, the relationship generally has shown me how far I’ve come: i accepted the “break-up”, didn’t cling/pursue/beg for an explanation, told him i respected his wish to not talk again while gently saying I wish he’d done so before the break up. I AM hurt though. After my other EUMs i was a crying, begging, letter writing wreck. And YET- the more things change the more they stay the same. One foot in or not, i was still in, rationalizing based on disability that he was not intentionally EU. A divorced man, with many failed relationships. I thought I could be the exception. But for the first time I can say and believe: it’s not me, it’s him. He has limited availability and he’s a self sabotager. The ME part was getting involved in the first place knowing his limitations. He was never an ass or a user, thankfully, so in a sense I got off easy, this EU lesson was a kinder and gentler one, but told me I still need to do work on me.
I would like to say too it’s possible that some of the men women write off as EU or asses may in fact have developmental disabilities or personality disorders like these (NPD and aspie) and we just don’t know it. Regardless, they cannot be fixed.
I apologize for the length. Looong time reader, never a poster.
I’ve been struggling growing up with a very influential, narcissistic parent. I always felt like society is being turned against me. I’ve been framed for crimes for not complying with demands, and I felt like no one could ever understand my situation. People constantly pressure me to help my parent, to this day. If there was one benefit to such an upbringing, it’s that I can detect narcissists better than most can, and hopefully will be able to help my friends in extremely abusive, narcissistic relationships.
It’s thoughts… These thoughts.. We keep telling ourself judging these “emotionally .-constipated” like we judge ourself. They are not on our same wavelength. When you come to understand they’re one sole purpose is to be a tool to discover you and how you functions and what you need and what you don’t need. After you realize this you can fix and work on making you better. Just USE them…. To benefit YOU. That’s all it was ever meant to be.
I met a guy in November 2015 who i immediately hit it off with. After hanging out a couple of times, it was clear he wanted more from me than friendship however something just didnt “feel right” – i guess it was because, without sounding childish, he would not accept a friend request on FB – stating that he only used the app for messaging. I brushed it off and continued to sleep with him and get entangled. In December he went to NZ for Xmas and NYE with his family. I did some stalking and found, just by chance, his supposed girlfriend. I threatened to tell her and he used every excuse under the sun: “I didnt want to scare you off”, “its a long distance relationship and i haven’t spoken to her in a while” “we are on and off” “you have shown me that i can do better for myself” “thankyou for showing me she isn’t the one”. I told him that if he was serious about me, he would call it off with her – period. He delayed doing this but eventually sent me a screen capture last minute when im guessing he could sense me getting fed up. The message, looking back, wasn’t exactly a break up, more of a half assed attemp at pussy-footing around what he promised to do.
A few weeks went by, he asked me to officially be his girlfriend. Then started acting weird.. really distant. Said work was stressing him out. That he wasn’t sure if he wanted to stay in town, wanted to move back to the city. On numerous occasions i asked him if he saw a place for me in his future.. he couldnt answer me yet i persisted. I asked him if he was having second thoughts about us.. he said no and that i should stop bringing it up, that he hasn’t met anyone like me before and when asking him if we should start seeing other people he said “i dont know.. i think we get along too well”. On numerous occasions i cried in front of him asking for answers, and he still could not let me know.
I went on a girls trip to indonesia 2 months later and a friend of mine suggested i go NC. Within 2 days i had a message saying “im thinking about you”.. 3 days later i was dumped. When asked why, he said it was due to my “drunken” behaviour one night before i left and that it “turned him off”. He then went into how i am way too good for him and he is depressed and will drag me into his “deep dark hole of depression”.
3 days later i find his (ex)girlfriend positing photos of their one year anniversary.. but wait.. i thought they broke up?? Funny how he was heading to the city this weekend for “interviews”. I threatened to tell her everything and he said he wasn’t sure why she was posting such photos as they were not together. Foolishly i believed him again.. DAMN he was good at lying. He even said he would not be catching up with her whilst down there.. then last minute changed his story.. apparently they had caught up for coffee and he all of a sudden realised he wanted to be with her. Oh and that he told her everything and she took him back.. Then told me he wanted to kill himself and cried to me on the phone. All while i was on holiday.
A month later, he tries to weasle his way back in regardless of me now knowing he was with her. I ended up telling her the truth 3 weeks ago of the whole affair, screen captures and all proving the above. 4 months of cheating. 4 months of lying and deciet. Turns out he never broke it off with her in the first place and that he never meant anything he said to me.
She has taken him back.. apparently he broke down crying and now she believes he just made a mistake because their relationship was long distance and that she just doesn’t think he is that person but is grateful i told her.
Writing this down makes it all seem really childish..What does everyone think of this? How could you take him back after 4 months of cheating? Will their relationship work or will he just throw her out now that she is well aware of who he is???
Thanks girls x
I should probably add that when i said “perhaps we should let this go and both move on” i got a response of “is that all”.. also when i was dumped one of the messages was “can we please still be friends” and that i was the only person in his life he could speak to…
I find it hard to admit he has narcisstic traits as ive spent so much time defending him. A part of me believes that maybe it was me and that she will be the lucky one who gets the good side of him.. maybe he really does “love her”. I dont know…
So good to hear your story!! I have heard the same things that you have. “I am hard on you because I hold you to a higher standard than anyone else” sound familiar??? This was after he yelled at me for making a mistake playing my guitar or relearning how to drive a standard after ten years or the most recent simply asking a question about something that I did not have enough knoledge about (I was wasting his time by asking without enough detail).Haha!! These dudes are without feeling. You are better off without him! SHE is being naive and is going to be really hurt in the not so distant future. We will probably see a posting from her soon once she figures him out!! Take care
Hi Ash,
A big red flag that we don’t see whilst were in the throes of being charmed is that statement ‘ its on and off and we haven’t interacted in a while’
A classic statement from disordered people. If they haven’t spoken to you for a few days they feel justified in making that statement whilst the poor person at the other end is wondering with confusion why they haven’t heard in a few days.
The one I was with spent the last year still telling me exactly the same things, texting/ phone calls/ meetings never stopped but he held back physically saying that ‘ its never been just about sex for you and me, we have much more than that, and if it had been it wouldn’t have lasted this long, you and I are meant forever’ what’s that supposed to mean? ……..it means ‘I want you in my life, loving me, waiting for me, not forgetting or moving on from me, then if I want to I can have sex with you’
They live their days by the precise moment, filling their time with the person who is immediately available and will easily say ‘ I’ve had no contact with her’ and believe it inwardly if they didn’t text someone for a couple of days.
How he manipulated you into believing his excuses, he will have done exactly the same with the other woman, she is long distance and will crave validation from him even more than you because she isn’t there to watch, feel, she only has his word.
Mine told me those things all that time, then told his wife we’d moved on aß friends a year ago….see?? He used words to manipulate me and the same words to his own advantage as well. He would have felt justified in doing so and feel no remorse for keeping me hooked and stringing me along.
I feel such a fool, I’ve never loved anyone the way I do him, I caught him in lies, contradictions, and only ten months in, watched him chasing someone else under my nose, he showed all the same obsessive actions with her, but denied anything even though I heard them making out together. He was so convincing that I stopped believing my own eyes and ears! Then stayed four more years !!
They are emotional parasites who drain you of your soul and the longer you stay the longer it takes to let go of.
Thought he was many things but narcissistic was not one of them. Was I ALL WRONG!! This was him to the last letter. Although I am over him I do fell sorry for the way he is. I was always wrong, forced into silence and afraid to respond to his opinions in fear that I would be “the victim”. What a troubling place to be! If I asked a simple question I was wasting his time. Although he would usually say that he thought it was awesome that I was trying to gain knowledge…haha. A way of keeping me trapped. An utter and complete ASSCLOWN who knows-it-all!!! I am done! Love myself way too much to put up with his bullshit any longer. Cannot understand why us with empathy end up which those lacking it?!?!? In the past year I have gained this knowledge…..never live by thinking “when this happens I will be happy……if I get him is ill be ok.” This will not happen for happiness comes from within. Cannot stress enough that our own lives depend on us and us alone. No one else can be saved or save ourselves. Be well and don’t fall for ANYONES bullshit!!!
I have struggled for months trying to figure out the guy I’m seeing. He’s divorced and came off “looking for a relationship” in the beginning and pursued me hard! He is passive aggressive and emotionally unavailable and definitely has some N traits as well! He’s extremely hot and cold and NEVER speaks of his emotions/feelings/thoughts, and if I bring them up or want to know where this “relationship” is going, I get the silent treatment which sometimes lasts hours to days to a week.Or he eventually lashes out at me if I proceed to attempt to get him to talk to me. I have learned not to bother when he crawls into his shell. Emotionally I feel like I’m on a roller coaster and have such a hard time attempting NC because for some reason I feel strongly for him regardless. He came on very strong at first which lasted a few weeks before it started to go up and down. He wants to keep me around, get all the fringe benefits of a relationship but claims he doesn’t want commitment, has too much going on etc etc. it’s usually when I start to feel ok with the silence that’s when he will creep back in. Unfortunately I see him a few times a week because I have to, so avoiding him completely is out of the question but I bet that it would help immensely if I was able to avoid it. He is extremely different when we are alone together compared to in public. He isn’t touchy in public, (infact it’s like we don’t know each other when we’re in public) the time we do spend alone is fantastic, I love every minute but when I leave I feel lost alone and used. To be honest, I feel like I was a very different person before I met him. I’ve become anxious and depressed from time to time, lost weight and have been questioned by family and close friends if I’m ok. Sometimes I feel like I’m crazy for feeling everything I do, and I’m not quite sure why I deserve this or why I put up with it. I need some strength!!
Great article and some sound advice. I’ve got a pattern of being in toxic relationships with people who have narcissistic traits. It’s only after the last one ended last year did I realise how much internal healing I needed to do. This time round it’s far worse as I have children with my ex so no contact isn’t an option.
For those going through the stages of recovery following the ending of dysfunctional relationship i offer my empathy. And I’ll also say don’t be too hard on yourselves for getting involved with someone like this. I’m retraining as a therapist and it was only my training that started to make me see that something wasn’t right about my partner. Of course, there were big red flags at the start, but I chose to ignore them!
I’ve been through sheer hell for the past 2 years and after trying to get through to my ex, I walked out 6 months ago. Since then it’s been really painful and really challenging. But I am now getting to a place where I forgive my ex for the things she did (yes, this is a female narc I’m talking about and I’m a man!) and the stuff she said behind my back. I accept she’s not complete as a person and her damaged upbringing has caused her to carry around wounds she’ll never heal, for she can’t face them.
I’ll never forget who I’m dealing with, I’ll never trust her, be her friend or share anything about my private life. It’s now a functional relationship based around the children’s needs.
What I did and am learning is how the lack of validation from my parents when I was growing up led me into each of the toxic relationships I’ve been in. A lack of self validation is the perfect breeding ground for attracting narcissists into your life. Until you can parent yourself properly, nurture yourself in a way that was lacking from your childhood, you’ll keep attracting these destructive types into your world.
The narcissist showed you something you wanted to keep hidden, a part of you that’s painful. Take note of what it is and embrace it. I know that one day my ex will be the best thing that happened to me because she showed me where I was lacking. She attacked it, used it and manipulated it. But if she hadn’t of done that I wouldn’t have had to face down the insecurities in me that I’m facing now and should have faced before this person walked into my life. Good luck to all the survivors out there.
Oh wow. This is so timely for me. I just spent years in a LDR with someone that fits this description to a T. He lied about everything. It got to be that’s how I knew he was lying. I was hearing his voice. Sad. He seemed so very sincere but something never felt right or real about it. I questioned myself even though I was raised by a malignant narcissistic sociopathic mother. That’s actually what threw me. He wasn’t viscous the way she was. Ah, but he was. Just passive aggressively. He had this sick habit of leaving crumbs to show the truth, or at least how he defined it but then cloak it in plausible deniability. I wasn’t able to trust myself even though my gut was screaming. Never again. I knew all along but never had any faith in my judgment or established boundaries. He’d just disappear and then call weeks later. He was dealing with a drinking problem. He thought I didn’t want to talk to him (hilarious as he was the one that vanished, whatever).
This time though. Found out he had been cheating and dumped his ass without letting him talk. Did it by txt. Very short and sweet. “I know. All feelings gone. Nothing to discuss. Done.” Then blocked him. I feel free for the first time in years. What a waste of skin. They’re really not human. Have zero empathy. Now when I look back I can easily see ALL the signs and the patterns. What a shame. So much time wasting on some thing not work a second much less years.
Hi. I just wanted to thank you so much for writing this article. It’s one of the best ones I’ve ever read, and I’ve read so many trying to figure out this man and situation in my life. You really opened my eyes and given me more understanding to finally see & learn the lessons this relationship was meant for me to learn about myself… And maybe finally have the strength to break free for good. Really, honestly thank you for taking the time to help us still struggling by providing your insights. Please keep it up, it’s very much appreciated. It’s life changing.