When I listen to people explain their frustrations with dating or how they’re feeling rejected after a possible date didn’t materialise, or not getting past a date or few with someone, what I realise is some of us are waiting to be chosen.
In these situations, the dynamic is imbalanced from the outset because you’re putting your fate into someone else’s hands, because you assume that if they choose you that it’s something you want to be in, and on the flipside you assume that if you’re not chosen that it must definitely have been a relationship you should have had.
The trouble with all of this is you’re not showing up as someone who is holding their own and owning their right to choose and go through the discovery phase of dating. Instead, you’re taking a more passive role where you’re happy to be the passenger on whatever journey the driver takes you on, just as long as they take you on a journey and keep driving. If ‘chosen’ for their journey, you may be happy to make their agenda your agenda, or you’ll privately decide that when you’ve got your feet well and truly under the proverbial table, that you’ll be so valued and loved, that they’ll be willing to change.
In effect, it’s like handing over a Choose Me Stick – when someone is in possession of it, they have the power to choose you, validate you, and even shape you.
Why? Because when you’re not showing up to your dates and relationships as an equal party with their eyes and ears open with the right to choose, the only choice you have is to subconsciously and possibly even consciously adapt your behaviour to increase the chances of being chosen.
Think about it: While it’s very possible that initially you might be yourself, as soon as you start to feel like they’re ‘pulling away’, or you’ve already stuck your pump on them and started inflating who they are so that you can think that they’re way more special than they actually are while they look down on you from that pedestal. If what’s on your mind is to be chosen, then you’re going to reflect that in your behaviour which essentially boils down to being and doing things that contradict your values to hold onto someone you haven’t positively chosen, at all costs.
Whatever it is, you change, morph, adapt, twist, and contort to be chosen. You also go into a holding pattern circling over the possibility of the relationship that you want, hoping that air traffic control will give you the signal that you can land and take up your slot.
Waiting for someone to make you a priority, to proceed to a relationship, to not breakup, to leave a different partner, or whatever it is that you’re waiting to be chosen for, just de-prioritises you. If you prioritised you, you’d never be in a situation where someone not only has the power to decide your fate, but to leave a crater sized hole in your life, because by handing out so much power, you’re bound to feel very rejected when it all goes tits up.
When you’re not co-choosing in a mutually beneficial relationship, it all becomes about one person working harder than the other, which by default assigns greater ‘value’ – they’re just not that special.
You may go for the easy, low-hanging fruit option and choose people that you perceive as being more likely to be with you. It could be that you recognise certain things that would register as issues to avoid with someone else, but you see it as an opportunity. Of course, when it doesn’t pan out, it’s like “I can’t believe someone like them doesn’t want me – what’s wrong with me?”
Or you’ll choose a challenge in the form of someone who you think is unlikely to choose you, which may be simply based on the fact that you’d have to convince them to make you the exception to their rule of being unavailable.
Waiting to be chosen is a bit like how some people go about job hunting – they put so much energy into being the right person for the job, it’s assumed that it’s the right job for them. Interview processes do actually involve you evaluating whether it’s the right job for you, which will arise from the questions you ask and what you glean during the interview process plus any other research you do. Instead they get the job offer and then start evaluating whether it’s actually the right opportunity for them. If they don’t get the job, some take it as a huge blow of rejection.
Of course it’s not as great an issue with your job hunting unless you end up miserable in a job that you knew wasn’t right for you but felt compelled to take it because you were asked, or you feel blah about your career, or you end up floating around getting job offers but never staying in a job for any decent length of time and always have a foot out the door…
With dating and relationships, once you start dipping into the Illusions Account, the High Growth Sexual Activity Fund and start planning a future around this idea of what it’ll be like to be The Chosen One, you can see why you will struggle to deal with rejection.
We don’t spend enough time asking if it’s the right job for us, just like we don’t ask if it’s the right relationship for us. It’s like there’s a job going that’s in your field – you want it. Someone in your common interests, appearance or whatever ‘field’ has a vacancy, you’re on it without even truly evaluating what the ‘opportunity’ is. “I’m on it! I’m on it!”
You’re just not that desperate.You technically have a ‘vacancy’ too – surely you don’t want to give it to any ‘ole muppet off this street?
One of the things that job interviews and eventually dating and relationships taught me, is that anything that you get ‘rejected’ by through the process of not being ‘chosen’, there’s normally a very good reason why you wouldn’t have chosen them either. The overwhelming majority of the time, you are already aware of these reasons, it’s just that you get sidetracked by your ego that needs that gold star of someone choosing you. It’s like “I want to be chosen so I have the option of telling them to bog off.”
Newsflash – you have that option already.
What may come as a surprise to you is that your ego needs you to own your power and get on with your life, more than it needs you to bust your proverbial balls, hollow yourself out, or ruminate yourself into a Ph.D on A.N. Other so that you can figure out why you weren’t chosen to be on the rowing team of a boat you don’t even want to be on, or a boat that you’ve already worked out is a bad ride and that you need to get the hell out of.
I’m thankful that whether it was through actions or ego, that I eventually steered myself out of various dodgy dating situations. I’m also thankful that I wasn’t ‘chosen’ for certain relationships – when I was ready to own my power, it left me free to choose and be chosen for a relationship I genuinely wanted for healthy reasons.
This is your life – you must be the primary driver of your choices. Hold your own and put away your Choose Me Stick and stop playing a role in life that says “How can I be the right one for you?” You have control over what you do and don’t participate in – choose (positively) instead of letting life happen to you!
Your thoughts?
Are you ready to stop silencing and hiding yourself in an attempt to ‘please’ or protect yourself from others? My book, The Joy of Saying No: A Simple Plan to Stop People Pleasing, Reclaim Boundaries, and Say Yes to the Life You Want (Harper Horizon), is out now.
Check out my book and ebook Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl in my bookshop.
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I love this and it is totally true. We get so caught up in the “rejection” that we dont stop to think that it was probably one of the best things to happen to us for reasons that we couldn’t see at the moment.
Dating is really hard these days though to the point that it’s even hard to actually find a guy that wants to go on a date. I don’t get the chance to go out with guys to feel them out or to decide if this is something I want to continue with. All I get are invitations to “chill” which in effect= let me come to your house or you come to mine because this will increase the chance that I will get sex from you. I’m 26 years old and I’m beginning to think there is no hope. 🙁
Brianna….there are good guys out there, it just takes a while to find them. But I do agree with you that guys seems to only want the booty call and to chill. Trust me, I lived in the Mid West and the East Coast, no matter where, guys think the same, but again not all…or at least I hope!
Im from Wales in the UK and the guys are the same round here too. the only thing you can do is say no to these “chill” or “hang out” dates… then they have two choices. 1) go elsewhere or 2)ask you on a date. just come back with some sort of “sorry chilling is for amateurs, im only available for dates” something like that.
Good luck!!!!! xxx <3
I recently told two guys straight out NO. Would I like to come round and watch dvds. Sorry boys I’ve only just started talking to you there isn no way I’m coming over to what is basically a complete strangers house.
I’m sure someone desperate would, otherwise they wouldn’t try it on.
I’m available for a date in a public place where I can at least run off or start screaming (I didn’t say that part) I just told them firmly no but if they wanted to meet me for a date that would be fine, 1 wanted to the other kept pestering to get me round to his place. In either case it was enough of an amber flag for me to say No thanks, I’ll keep on walking.
Couldnt believe when an american friend told me he had been on date – now when we say – he went round to her place where she had cooked dinner.
Sorry, it’s a first date, too much??? Anyone else do that or am I guilty of ‘not compromising’ as I’ve been accused by one mr unavailable.
Hooray, you are not compromising! If they can’t be bothered to dress up a little, and take you out for something to eat or some entertainment in the very beginning, then they aren’t worth it, and things will just deteriorate further.
@Eve
sounds like those guys might be part of the Pick Up Artist community aka PUA. Its The Rules for dweebs without a soul PUA guys try to get nookie asap without spending a dime, years ago a guy tried it on me, texting, being busy then inviting me to meet him in a park with his friends. Yeh, right. NEXT.
Yes, men asking you to come to their house to watch dvd’s are
1)cheap
2)out for the nookie
I recently told two guys straight out NO. Would I like to come round and watch dvds.
Visualise the deal. What’s the deal? What is the title of the deal? What are the terms and conditions? What do you bring to the deal? Are you the only one signing the deal?
Commitment and “the deal” are central to everything.
I now have a strict, hard boundary. NOBODY gets to date me without EXPLICITLY saying so. Nobody is in a relationship with me unless they EXPLICITLY put in an application. ‘Sex’ and ‘Friends’ are also strictly kept seperate – if a friend wants an upgrade, they have to ask EXPLICITLY for a date and they get told that if we go forward and it doesn’t work out that there is a high chance that they might lose the friendship at the end too.
There are NO benefits until they sign a deal – whether that be a relationship deal or a dating deal. Natalie might talk about a “choose me stick”, what I’ve got now is an “interest gauge”. Think of it like a flood level stick you see by roadsides. There’s a trigger level they have to reach before I’m going to bother with them. Coming round to ‘watch DVDs’ (and by hint hint – sex – ) is not being asked for a date, its probably being asked to be a free prostitute. There’s no deal on the table, or if there is it’s just payment in kind for sex.
Take the choose me stick, get a big marker and mark a gauge on it. Is their level of interest high enough. It becomes a measuring ruler in which to check if they and (you) have enough capacity for a serious LTR.
There’s a lot to be said for effort and some guys just don’t seem willing to make it anymore. I mean with all of these internet choices why make an effort with one girl when there is another willing to do what’d you’d like just one click away? I remember reading something, an interview with guys where they were going on about who they chat to on FB commenting that to have about 10 girls on an IM rotation is “pretty standard”. What the hell? And yunno I’m not surprised.
I miss feeling special in a romantic partnership. The last lazy bf/AC just made me run around after him all of the time to either ‘hang’ at his place or other places where there was a chance of sex. Sometimes I almost felt like an unpaid prostitute.
Grdoundhog
My welsh friend lived in London for a number of years, met a terrible man. Broke up with him. Spent a year travelling and finally met a wonderful man in …. Wales.
I’ve heard women from NY, London, Scotland, the city, the country and now Wales say there is a scarcity of men.
They’ve got to be somewhere or the human race would be dying out. But we topped 7 billion recently. About half of them are men by my calculations.
Brianna H,
I hear you and I agree. I am 47 and I hear from my young niece and her friends that so many of the guys their age just want to hook up…with facebook and all the online dating sites, this seems to be the main way that the younger generation meets…the texting and emailing as a major source of communication often translates to the guy having to make very little effort..
I remember when I was your age…a guy would ask for your number, call you, come to your house to pick you up and meet your parents and just get to know you slowly…unless he was spending every night in a bar, there would not be endless opportunities to meet a whole bunch of people…like what happens now with online dating and facebook…it is like there is a mentality that there is endless choice and always something better around the corner….there is a real danger in that, in the sense that you could get caught in a place where you never choose…and where everything is just casual….I feel for you, but don’t give up hope…I know many younger people, both guys and girls who want something of substance and feel the same way as you..
Good luck
Wow I just love when I open my inbox and see Nat. I always know there is going to be something that hits home. And this one does very much so for me. At some point in my late 40’s I lost my self respect, and thought I wasn’t worthy, because of ALL the dating over 40 negative articles I’ve read. So yes I was waiting someone to pick me. Oh he wants me, so off I go, happy to be chosen. Like when I was in grade school, waiting to be picked for the softball team. How destructive I became to myself.
In my most recent relationship I tried to adapt to a lifestyle that just didn’t work for me. He was a widow 11 years younger than me with teenage children at home. As hard as I tried to see myself as the woman of the house if things continued, I knew deep down that raising another family was not part of my plan. Regardless, I convinced myself that I was in love with him and when it ended I was heartbroken…go figure. I was chosen by a man years younger than me and my ego took over my common sense. You are describing me in that relationship, being the one who wasn’t ready to give him up even though he could never be the right one for me. This article changed my vision quite a bit. Thanks.
The questions that keeps hounding me is “how can I “CHOOSE”, the apples at the top of the tree, when they are not reachable to be picked in the first place?”.
Yes, I can have that power to choose, ONLY if these men are interested in me. I can’t very well choose someone who doesn’t want to date me.
Don’t you have to be “realistic” on what guys will be attracted to you?
It doesn’t have to do with Settling or being desperate……
I don’t believe we can go out & have the power to choose our perfect mate – Because IF he’s NOT into you, then you won’t be dating him.
It comes down to: you only have the Choice to date the guys who like you in return. And from the pool of guys you do the choosing.
i think what natalie is trying to say is that if they havent “chose” you then you shouldnt and wouldnt have chose them anyway. a healthy relationship consists of both parties being up for it. if one isnt then of course it wont work.
its like going for a job in accountancy when your field of work is retail. of course the manager of accounts isnt going to choose you…
you will meet someone, theres so many men out there its almost impossible not to meet someone =) xx
Groundhog
Good analogy but it’s more like you applied for the job of Partner, and got offered the cleaning job. Part-time.
… unpaid… haha! no, that is true, but would you accept job as part time cleaner when you know your worth partner? yeah, if you were desperate for “A” job? sometimes i’ve felt like that… so desperate for a man and a relationship that ill accept any old sh** haha. just want some fun? sign me up! want a non-relationship relationship? im your girl!!!
oh i really need to spend some time alone =(
xxx <3
I have just texted the guy with the three kids that I want to have a phone conversation. The talk will basically be that I don’t see us as long-term.
This is the first time I feel like I have been “on the other side” of it: the side where he’s cute, he’s fun, he’s not pressuring me, we can relax and hang out – even though I know he’s not material for The One, he’s alright to chillax with. I can see the temptation to keep things light and make-out level non-committal a bit longer … a bit … another week? Another month? Until he wants sex?
Is this not what these guys do with us? Enjoy our company as long as there’s no pressure to close the deal or move toward the kind of partnership that builds family?
And I am on this “side” because of self-esteem. When he mentioned “no expectations” or was less than enthusiastic about more kids, I felt a familiar disappointment. In the past, this disappointment was indistinguishable from a deep-down disappointment in myself, and I would fight like hell to avoid that – by hearing what I wanted to hear, I guess.
Before I knew how to act on my own behalf, I heard the things guys said, I’d feel the disappointment, and yet still move forward thinking, “This x thing I’ve just heard is what I have to be understanding about, what I need to not make such a big deal about, etc.”
Now I feel the disappointment and think, bummer. Guess I have to stop dating this dude, even though he is affectionate and fun (and even though the little red horned Magnolia is like, but surely one more snuggly couch night couldn’t hurt?).
This is the first time I feel the temptation to stay in something that I know isn’t going to work in the long-term … out of conscious selfishness, rather than a desperate attempt to stabilize my self-esteem. But I have to act in terms of self-interest, not selfishness.
Time to have the conversation now so both he and I can keep looking.
“This is the first time I feel the temptation to stay in something that I know isn’t going to work in the long-term … out of conscious selfishness, rather than a desperate attempt to stabilize my self-esteem. But I have to act in terms of self-interest, not selfishness.”
Mag, you really are so insightful. I don’t think you’re being selfish – I think it’s pretty human to say, “Well, I’m attracted to him, so maaaaybe I could make out with him and see what happens?” (I’m just saying that hypothetically. I have never had such ideas in my head. No. Not me. Never. 😉 ) The point is you’re realizing that it’s not going to work for you and ending it for the right reasons, with no drama (and your self esteem front and center). Well done sister. The guy who IS right for you will be a very lucky dude indeed!
Magnolia..
You are beyond awesome lady!
I read your posts often,sometimes twice…I felt so bad when I read this.
I applaud you,that you have the insight to know when something is just not right,Or an in the “meantime” kinda thing…
I have wasted alot of time and energy on Men I knew were not longterm material,Just wanted to ‘chill’ types,The ones who were just not the ones..
Okay – it’s done. Seems like he was thinking the same, said he was “being chicken about sending an email.” An email? Anyway. Funny how there’s a little sting no matter what! What does he mean, “Yeah, we didn’t totally click chemistry-wise”!!!?? Could it be that some of my behaviour didn’t work for him? Fine, I’m over it 🙂
@Magnolia
I have been reading your posts! “When he mentioned “no expectations” or was less than enthusiastic about more kids, I felt a familiar disappointment. ” Yes you said that on another thread, too. I knew it was just a matter of time till you said good bye and WELL DONE. Better to end it now than waste time with a man who will not give you what you want. Good luck to you.
well, I guess you can break it off & look to have him as a friend if you’re both comfortable with that (I’ve tried but they’ve tended to get douchy about it) or cut him loose.
Mags, The sting is normal. Pride, it’s a little bugger. Hold fast to the fact that YOU decided that this guy, despite being attractive and a potential cuddle-trove, was not right for you. That he felt unsure, or said he felt sure, is beside the point. It could have been about you, more likely his interpretation of you and, even more likely, his own concerns about his own life (having already had kids etc – because remember he said he found you wonderfully attractive!?) You could send yourself nuts working out what people say on their way out the door. It feels like it matters, but it doesn’t.
In many ways, it’s actually really positive that he too had mixed feelings about you. I know it hurts a little. But it is actually a good thing. I had two short relationships in 2011, both of which ended mutually. One where he started the ‘end’ conversation, the second where I did. But in both cases, both of us knew it was right to end things. There was no struggle or suffering or villainising. When one person is completely shocked by a break-up (or a ‘let’s not proceed’ chat), there’s usually been some foul play and/or intense fantasising going on.
This is a good thing. Get him, it, and your pride out of your way, and give yourself some credit for recognising and acting on what you want in life. I am writing this as my new guy makes us lunch. It’s early days, but I feel relaxed and good. I don’t feel those sensations of ‘choose me!’ at all, I am having fun and really rather happy, and a lot of that is because I proved to myself in 2011 that I can, and will, leave situations that are not good for me, and therefore not good for the other person. This is a step in the right direction, Mags!
Yep.
1. There has to be a deal
2. The deal must contain expectations and directions by *both* parties (the deal should not be on one party’s terms)
3. The deal must be closed within reasonable time
4. The deal must be delivered
5. If there is no deal, there is NO DEAL!!
Thanks ladies. I smoked one joint over two nights and had myself a little art-and-singing-pity-party. But even that wasn’t about feeling bad for myself as much as acclimatising to the new sense of decision-making power and responsibility for myself, a little scary! and letting my inner victim (whose main adjective lately has been ‘bratty’!) have her moment.
In less than two weeks I am going to present my poetry research as a science poster to the AAAS. I see it as a huge exercise, and experiment, in owning my space.
I have turned down two different dates to work on this thing and I tell you it feels good because I know I chose the more fun option. I know which of my girlfriends are as much fun as my project. I think that in the past, I was so thrilled to be “chosen”, even just chosen for a date, by guys, that a boring time with a male of the species seemed more thrilling than a good time with a real friend. Now I know: to be worth the time, a dude has to be at least as interesting to me as drawing plant-brains on bristol board 🙂
“Now I know: to be worth the time, a dude has to be at least as interesting to me as drawing plant-brains on bristol board :)”
Hahahaha! So true! My litmus test is “Can he not annoy me for the equivalent of an entire televised football game?” (In America that’s like 3 1/2 hours) Good luck with the presentation girl!!
“…there’s normally a very good reason why you wouldn’t have chosen them either. The overwhelming majority of the time, you are already aware of these reasons, it’s just that you get sidetracked by your ego that needs that gold star of someone choosing you.”
Natalie, this is such a timely post.
The married man came back for another roll in the hay, and guess what? I didn’t want him (for obvious reasons). I give myself a gold star for flushing his toxic presence out of my life.
The alky will return in a few months. I actually don’t want to see him either. My ego would love to have him fall at my feet, professing his undying love but, THEN what? I start a doomed relationship with an alcoholic? Uh, no…I’ll give myself a gold star for realizing the futility of being chosen by his unavailable addicted self.
Blueberry,
Congratulations for not offering the MM one more roll in the hay and for not offering him the Chose Me Stick one more time. You get many gold stars. You may want to consider sealing the door shut by blocking, deleting, defriending, and whatever other “de” thing you can do. In my experience, the exMM just kept knocking until it was done and there was no more Choose Me Stick in my front yard. No more rolls in the hay. No more candle-lit dinners. No more nothing. Just darkness.
Since I’m politically inclined and inclined to place signs in my front yard during elections, I think I’ll be placing a “I Choose Me” sign this election season. He, he, he…I may get some votes! Choose you Blueberry. That’s the only choice.
Hey runnergirl101,
I hear what you’re saying about blocking; the MM hadn’t contacted me in at least six months, so I felt pretty confident I was rid of his toxic ass…and when he did, it was from a new number that I didn’t recognize. Now I know his level of subterfuge.
Natalie was right. I hadn’t realized how devious and low these men can sink when they want to worm their way back into your life or, in my case, your bed! They’re like plantar’s warts that stubbornly keep returning!
“I Choose Me” signs on our front lawns = brilliant : )
Hi Everyone,
I have broken & thrown away the “choose me stick” this week.
Over the past 5 months I have:
-stopped seeing EUM
-went NC (signed up for NC emails for support)
-had one final convo thursday with EUM where I expressed my feelings (mine, not telling him who he is)
-after convo I blocked all the numbers I had for him, blocked all the email addresses I had for him on every single email account I have, and for the biggest, I unfriended him on FB and left FB
Over the past 3 years it has been a real struggle for me to let go. With constant support from this site, letting my friends & shrink actually be there for me, and having faith in what Natalie was saying & the actions she was suggesting that would actually bring me to a happier place.
I understand now that the EUM CAN’T give me what I want (versus my believing that he’s just witholding) and I CAN’T give him what he wants! That’s right, I can’t give him what he wants. He wants a casual, once in a blue moon booty call. And I can’t do that! I even tried! But I can’t. Then I realized that he’s not wrong about who he is & what he wants, he’s acting aligned with what he wants, but it’s not what I want.
And if I want something different, I can’t be hoping things will change. I just have to let go so what I do want shows up! I am sad to let go of my fantasy of him, but it’s just that-a fantasy.
Thank you for everything, Natalie. You’ll never know how much I’ve leaned on you.
Eternal Summer, I think you just perfectly described arrival at acceptance. You sound really peaceful.
Thanks Eternal,
I always have found it hard to accept with my ex EUM that I couldn’t give him what he wanted either. I thought he was getting everything and was deliberately witholding what I wanted. But I was as much a ‘fantasy’ of what he wanted as he was for me. He was always very honest about not wanting us to be a ‘couple’ but wanting some free-spirited companion that was always around, not making emotional and physical demands, ok sharing him others (in addition to his wife!). Even though I never signed up to that he fantasised about me being that person just as I fantasised about him being loyal, committed and decent even though he never signed up to that either. Instead of flushing as soon as this became clear I carried on the pretence. We both did. I don’t believe he will find this woman but there will be plenty more EUWs who will play the part for a while I’m sure.
Thanks for helping me on my way to acceptance too!
*FLUSH*
Gurgle…
It’s so heartbreaking NOT to be chosen by someone you love and have invested in. My bipolar ex broke up with me for the second time two months ago. First time i chased him like crazy, trying everything I could to get him to come back and choose me again. Second time around, I went NC straight up. I feel I have to do this for myself now, and I must break my old patterns of waiting and hoping that someone else (a sick and mean bipolar person) would finally “see” my value. I see my own value now. It’s an everyday battle but I’m in it to win this time.
When I was hanging around being the Fall Back Girl for 18months I held up my “Choose Me” stick every day, I even attached neon flashing lights to it but I never got chosen. Best thing that ever happened to me.
Question to you all out there – how do you maintain your feminine identity, i.e. be the “feminine” in the relationship, without being a little passive? I want to be in the drivers’ seat for my life, but how can I do so without seeming aggressive and proactive? After all, men want to pursue!
Its not about chasing them around….it’s about showing up, being present and making decisions about whether they are right for you, not just sitting there hoping they pick you. It’s about not putting all your energy into getting them to like you without figuring out if you actually like them.
Hi Sabrina,
I suppose it’s how you identify with what you describe as ‘feminine’. For me that would be proactive and displaying that I know my own mind as an adult.
Sabrina
I don’t think they do want to pursue. I’ve done a complete 180 on that!
I concede that playas like to pursue, and the chronically insecure showoffs because it gives them the illusion of being in control. You don’t want those guys.
“When you’re not co-choosing in a mutually beneficial relationship, it all becomes about one person working harder than the other, which by default assigns (them) greater ‘value’…”
Grace, I’ve been thinking a lot lately about pursuing in relationships. I get that men are “hunters” and enjoy the pursuit, but it often boils down to playing games. In healthy relationships, I choose them, they choose me, end of story. There’s no ambiguity, Push-Me, Pull-you like Dr. Doolittle and the sickening sense that you’ve handed over the keys to someone else driving the bus (and in typical EU fashion, they are blindfolded).
Do you believe that the guys that want you to chase THEM (through with that, btw) aren’t worth the chase and/or the capture?
In my experience, If I have to chase a man to get his interest, time and energy, it’s a doomed relationship.
they don’t want to pursue b/c they don’t HAVE to pursue.
why do more work than you have to?
women are doing the work!
plus, free sex, no strings attached.
* there is no better time in the history of the planet to be a man. *
this being the case, it’s mighty hard for the really good-hearted women who DON’T use the sex card to find a decent guy, never mind one of the “catch” guys (who have sex, etc., on tap) (but they get theirs in the end–usually via bitter divorces or wives who cheat).
Hi Grace,
I’ve found that even insecure, shy guys who claim they don’t play games, seem to hate when a woman is proactive. It’s frustrating because I am definitely proactive/assertive when it comes to friends, family, and career. I recently found a guy who didn’t play those games, who made me so comfortable to just be ME…. and then one day he didn’t show up to a dinner date and I never heard from him again. Seems to be a vicious cycle!
“The trouble with all of this is you’re not showing up as someone who is holding their own and owning their right to choose and go through the discovery phase of dating.”
Oh you just said it all right there! In my case, I was handing over the Choose Me Stick (brilliant, just so brilliant) to dudes that were such assclowns that what I SHOULD have said was, “Here, yes, take the Choose Me Stick. Very good. Now take it and shove it….” (You get the idea.)
I 1000% agree that I’m glad that I wasn’t chosen by any of these jerk-offs. I had a hard enough time extracating myself from bs sorta-relationships with these guys, so I can’t image if I’d had to remove myself from being legally bound to them! What I’ve been trying to do now as I think about getting back into dating, is to remind myself of how important it is to take a long-range view of things. Do I really want to end up with anyone that expects me to throw the Choose Me Stick through their shifting goalposts in the hope that maybe, just maybe they’ll let me ‘win’?! No. Hell no. I am saving my pedestals to pretty up my patio, thank you very much 😉
Haha! Cute and funny as ever, Natasha! Really. I now thank whatever amorphous force was responsible for me NOT being chosen by, or choosing, the last few guys I have seen. I could have spent many years feeling small, stressed, jumpy and, with one, more than possibly being in physical danger (experienced the rage lash-outs!). Pretty up that patio and bolster the beams. With help (incl this site), I have gotten to the point where the discovery element of dating – the dynamic of giving yourself, and then more than possibly having to walk away – is no more than a ‘bummer’ factor. When you really know that you are OK on your own, armed, of course, with friends, family, your work/passions, and your health, you can’t be toppled by someone not being right for you. You stand there, see it, and act on it. Then, as might well be the case with me – still too early – you attract someone steady and lovely, and you recognise them.
“Then, as might well be the case with me – still too early – you attract someone steady and lovely, and you recognise them.”
Ahhhh, so simple and so true! Love it 🙂
The ego really has too much control in my life, I was seeing a guy that fast forwarded me to the hilt, and withen 3 weeks told me he loved me, part of me was chuffed as know one had ever declared that before, and then the other part of me thought’yeah this will do, not sure it’s love though’.
I liked him I really did and a week later when he disappeared and would not give me an explanation I was and still am mortified….which is stupid. I still think about him most days and this was 3 damn months ago. I was so wrapped up in the idea of love I chose him and then he took the power.
It’s hard not to want to be chosen in a way when men seem to be becoming more sparce, especially the decent ones. But I must learn to keep my ego (The T rex I like to call it) under control. I came to dating a bit late in life (24) and still have a lot to learn (now 26). With the help of Nat and all you wonderful ladies I will get there.
Pommekat
Been there! I think when you don’t have closure it’s a natural progression to think, why did it all go wrong? Men that future fake, disappear without warning are just out and out ACs period! They generally have issues. I’ve been 3 months of NC and have had the urge to contact him and say wtf? But really what is the point? They’ve already shown you how they are, he is probably in the process of doing it to some other poor woman! sometimes it takes time to realise we are better off without them. 🙂
You Got that right Steph and Pommekat!!
I was reading somewhere about how to Break up with someone,I know I know Dumb!!!
Anyway,in thos article it says what ever you do,DO NOT PULL A DISSAPEARING ACT!!!!,it is very damaging to the psyche….
It is no doubt,It kills you for the first bit.,I remember not being able to sleep,think,eat.It was pure awful..
I am no longer in that place,I do think about him often,but more often in absolute pity for this dysfunctional Man…
I wanted him to choose me so bad,that I never stopped to see how horrible he was at times to me..I can see it so clearly now,but at the time not so much…
Hang in there,We can do the choosing now!!!
Yes, hang in there! I have had two super boyfriends (kind, consistent and loving). Unfortunately, at the time, it was me who was agitated, restless, and wanting love to be an ordeal. Almost all my friends and cousins are in happy relationships. My brothers are adoring husbands. There are many, many decent men out there. As Brenda says, say ‘no’ until you meet a man, not an afflicted boy. And, I would add, be honest about whether you truly want a relationship.
I came to dating a bit late in life (24) and still have a lot to learn (now 26). With the help of Nat and all you wonderful ladies I will get there.
‘Late in life’ what?
I’m 24, hardly think that is late at all. I’m really enjoying just being myself (yeah I know that sounds corny) but the moment you put away the stick, and stop worrying what the ‘world’ thinks of you, the better you’ll feel.
Fastest way to blow up your self esteem – compare yourself to others.
Pommekat,
Please realize, he did not take the power, you gave it away. Once you recognize this, you are less likely to allow it again.
Wow Eternal Summer, what a beautiful post. And through you learning your lesson, you have opened my eyes and taught me something.
I am still in love with my EUM that I broke up with in Nov. I still hear his voice in my head… “I can’t give you what you want”.
Its only because of your post, for the first time it’s dawned on me that instead of reeling from my loss I should be viewing it that he can’t give me what I want!
So thankyou, good luck with your journey moving forward and away from your EUM, and here’s to you, me, and all women that come here for support finding a loving, healthy and balanced relationship.
Just to say that I couldn’t agree more with your post, Brianna!! Very, very true, sadly!
Best wishes,
Heidi x
Thank you for this thread, Natalie. You could say that can identify with this at the moment!
Best wishes (and keep up the good work!),
Heidi x
Wow Eternal Summer, I am proud of u like I would be of my own daughter! “I can’t give him what he wants” and “He can’t give me what I want.” Putting it like that makes it so much clearer to me. I used to think “He won’t give me what I want”…but that gave him all the power and left me holding the choosing stick.
This article went straight to my heart..thankyou Nat.
Thing is, before we even get to the ‘Will he choose me question?’
We have to be 100%commited to choosing ourselves.
I mean you wouldn’t go to a restaurant and say everytime’ Nah, just pick for me, yep, plate of offal for dessert will be dandy…’
Unless we know what we want in a relationship and where we’re heading…we run the risk of leading some unwitting guy up a blind alley too.
I was reminded of how, in past relationships, my time, finances, career choices,(serious stuff), were affected and my core aspirations were put on hold. Instead I spent time and money on’shapeshifting’ to fit his ideal, and we all know that EUM’s tend to be great at appreciating a fully fashioned ideal- then when the real you emerges , it’s just too, too real!
I truly only have the energy to be myself these days,bending out of shape is proving increasingly difficult( in the best and most enlightening way.)
when i got into my last relationship i often felt like he had some sort of an idealised image of me because sometimes he would talk to me about me: about all my great qualities, about the inner workings of my personality, he’d often say he ‘already knew who i was’. this was of course a little alarming because he’d only known me a short time. i was never going to love up to his image of me. never.
and of course there were things he wanted to change about me. he would hint that he thought i was beautiful but could be more beautiful with a little work.
of course i tried to fit myself around his image and it was soul destroying. i de-prioritised my priorities, lost my identity as he made me even less and less of a priority.
eventually i gave up. i can’t say though i feel entirely rejected by him. he didn’t actually know me, he never gave me the chance.
‘Sometimes he would talk to me about me’ Yeah been there too, Alice.
Relationships like this make you feel that you are ticking boxes for them either in the way you look, the job you do, your interests etc.
I know I felt that he would simply set up another ideal after me, pursue it and then proceed to dismantle that too.
It’s nothing about getting to know the real you, as you say.
You made a great choice to give up on it. You are nobody else’s checklist.
Eternal summer. What you’ve gone through and your subsequent feelings are practically identical to mine. Fortunately I only wasted 5 1/2 months. He was married and I was desperate for the attention from a man since I’d been widowed for 6 years. He saw an opportunity and took it. We were friends in a business sort of way and he had to go and make more out of it, and I followed. Dumb! Anyway, I began NC the first week of September 2011, and I have not looked back. You are the first person in all I’ve read on this website and on others that did it (NC) the right way–thoroughly. The only options he had were to use someone else’s phone to get through to me or show up at my door. It felt so great to stop the insanity. He was an EUM to the nth degree and it never ever would have worked out in a million years. I was taken in by his charm, and just didn’t see who he really was. I was waiting to be chosen over his wife. Is that not super ridiculous? But, that’s where my head was then. I am soooo glad I woke up and that someone led me to Baggagereclaim. If it were not for my subscribing to Natalie’s blogs, reading her book , the Eum and the Fallback Girl, praying to God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit I would still be waiting on his arse. I am not that person anymore and it feels GREAT.
Commitment means closing off your other options. Clearly his commitment is nothing but words on a piece of paper. It’s like signing two contracts that both state that signing another contract with the competition is not OK.
Even if you did get that guy, what’s to stop him from trying to play around with other people after that anyway. You can’t win!
Good on you for flushing that guy!
Today a friend of mine told me that the EU/MM from this past summer was “over me months ago.” It felt like a punch in the stomach to hear her say that (and she was saying that to remind me that I have to move on, just as he as done). She may or may not be correct, but it still hurt to hear it. Most of the time, my common sense tells me that it’s a darn good thing things didn’t work out with this jerk. He’s a liar, likely mentally ill, married (of course), has two kids and majorly took advantage of me (I’m going through a divorce). Is this someone I want to be with? Not really. And I think things happened (or didn’t) for a reason — it wasn’t meant to be. I just wonder why I still feel rejected sometimes. My head gives me sensible answers but my heart still feels bruised, if that makes sense.
Heartache
What did you expect to happen when you got involved with a MM at church?
This happened at the church I went to as a child. A single man had an affair with a Married Woman. When the church found out, he was kicked out and an announcement made to the congregation. Then the Woman had to make a confession in front of us all while we all looked embarrassed for her and for her husband. It is seared into my memory as a deeply unpleasant thing to witness.
There’s no happy ever after. Do you really think that your pastor will happily marry you and the MM after an affair conducted under his nose? That you’ll waltz down the aisle while everyone looks daggers at you?
You got off lightly, you really did.
I hear you when you say that he’s a liar etc (of course he is, he has to be because he’s MARRIED and can only conduct extra-marital activities under cover of LIES). I have been mentally ill myself. It’s a hard ask but maybe have some compassion for him, his wife, and his kids, but ultimately – for yourself. He’s got nothing to do with you. He couldn’t choose you or reject you because he ‘s married.
Heart,
How could he take advantage if he is married?? You know you were getting involved with a MM. He’s unavailable!
HA, I’ve read and commented on your posts before. I think you’ve made some progress because you are now distilling what happened down to how *you* feel – ie rejected – and what that means for you. Be careful about playing the victim, though. It’s disempowering. Nobody can take “advantage” of you (other than in some criminal way) without your consent.
From my experience I would say that your feelings of being rejected probably existed way before you met the MM. He was just a trigger. So, I think things did happen for a reason – not because “it wasn’t meant to be”, but maybe to force you to confront your fear of rejection. I also wonder whether the focus you placed on the MM has been a nice distraction from dealing with the emotional issues that the divorce would have thrown up. By dealing with these issues and your fears, you’ll come to use a different adjective to describe yourself.
I spent one full month like an adrenaline fueled zombie, waiting on his call, his text, his email, his instant message. I barely ate, hardly slept, exercised like a crazy person, walked around with my phone in my hand. I was waiting all day every day to be chosen. And then he let me know he’d chosen someone else and said we could be friends. I rejected that friend card and yesterday broke it off for good. Today was the first day of NC and I already feel more like myself. I didn’t know I could get so lost so fast. I hadn’t seen the pattern of waiting to be chosen, but that’s exactly what it is.
Happy to share I have tossed my “choose me” stick as well. Blocked Mr. Married a week ago.
Thank you for another inspirational post. It’s an amazing feeling to realize my worth, and you have a role in my internal self-esteem evolution, for sure.
xxoo
Christine
Oh Natalie, you are on fire.
I think I was born with the “Choose Me Stick” or I learned early on that I needed to morph to please and get chosen. It’s odd though. Other than my original EUM, my father, three males chose me to be their wife. Wahoo! But precisely like you say, I think in retrospect, I was passively happy with being “chosen”, tried really hard to be happy making their agenda my agenda but I never gave much thought as to whether I was actively choosing them. They so quickly snapped up my “Choose Me Stick”, I didn’t even realize I hadn’t really chosen them. Until the end.
So fast forward to the exMM. I’m still waving the “Choose Me Stick” cos it’s all I know. I so stuck my pump on him, inflated him while sucking the air out of myself, he must choose me. That’s what I did as a kid.
I’m getting it. I’ll be thankful he didn’t choose me because as you say I’m the driver of my life. I would have never been happy as a passenger in his life.
BTW, I was usually in charge of choosing members for the softball team which translated in my career of choosing members of committees. I can choose who be best at playing short, who should play third, who would be good at chairing an important committee. Folks trust my judgment because I look objectively at the skills and the fit.
I can’t believe I didn’t apply these principles in choosing who should be in my life. I probably spent more time evaluating who should play short and who should chair a committee than I did who should be in my life. Head plant. Thank you Natalie. You won’t see a “Choose Me” sign in my front yard.
@ElleJae
Ya still go after the top apples on the relationship tree. Yep, many may reject you but you still need to get out there and go for it. Going after the low hanging fruit is going to have you settling for someone you don’t really want. You will feel disappointed and at some point he will know it and be hurt. The longer that continues, the more hurt for both of you, not to mention the waste of precious time. In my past, I tried to settle for men who were far less interested in intellectual things, had much different ideas of how to live, and one that I in no way could ever be physically attracted to. I did this because, at the time, they were the only ones that “chose” me. An absolute freaking disaster, every time. Sometimes no one will be there for you; sometimes one is in the wrong place and really must leave and go somewhere where your values are valued, but never, ever, settle.
Oh, how much do we love Natalie?
I’m single and open to date and I do everything right: staying busy, smiling, not chasing, etc. In my social circle there are numerous house parties. Over the past few months two separate men from my circle have asked for my number, I gave them my biz card suggested they email me and we’d take it from there.
One guy emailed me once, I replied to him… then zero. I let it go.
The other guy acted very interested but. He never emailed me.
Thing is, I see both of these guys at those house parties and they try to chat me up and act flirty/enthusiastic, as though nothing happened! Yeh, the two men who basically ignored/rejected me, for whatever reason. Dang, I don’t want to be a witch but I have no interest in being slotted into the friend zone so I was friendly but brief with both of them.
Keeping my power. The right man will follow up the rest of them want a chick to chase them. No thanks. Back to work and keeping busy while smiling, etc.
Sigh.
you shouldn’t tell them what to do, and especially don’t tell them to email you.
guys want to call!
they may be getting a “businessy” vibe from you.
Used
Hmm, I didn’t think of that. Good point. “Email me” isn’t sending out a romantic vibe.
@Used
I have a card printed up with my email on it not my phone number, cause here in my neck of the words, men bring out their phone and say-give me your number- to begin the texting game. I’m old fashioned and prefer to get to know a man with a few emails then phone then date. Guess thats why I’m single 🙂
Hahah
I always phone back now (with friends), so if they send me a crumb text I phone then and we have a conversation.
Suddenly they’re not texting me for ego strokes so often – *win* 😛
If they were that interested, they wouldn’t be so fragile.
They’re not interested.
FlowerWhite
They’re not rejecting you. They don’t even know you. It would be a very sad world indeed if every interaction between a man and a woman bound us both to follow up with 100% interest and commitment. We’d never speak to each other again.
This is an un-Gracelike thing to say but, just enjoy the moment, if something happens, it happens, if not – what have you lost – a few minutes of your time that you enjoyed? (PS – this laidback approach does NOT apply once you start properly seeing someone).
@grace
thanks for your feedback, much appreciated. I’ve been single going on 2 years, now I’m ready for a man, heh. I do enjoy “the moments”…maybe I wasn’t clear.
Every woman has a different dating style, my style at this point in my life is to vet men for a long term relationship. If a man doesn’t want to take a moment to write me an email before he gets my number, then he’s not the man for me and I do accept being single as a consquence of this sort of vetting.
If they’re not taking a minute to email me they’re not the one for me. To each her own. Here in Northern California the men are kings of texting and putting women on hold. As a matter of fact, in order to NC the ex, I got rid of the cell phone and only have a land line. I do NOT miss texting. Sure, I’ll get a new cell soon but for now it feels very calm.
And I don’t tell the men to email me… I just give them my card when they ask for a number, the smart ones notice theres no phone number and they have emailed me. Look, I’m over 40 and I know what works for me, men who have consideration…and writing skills.
If they didn’t call and ask for a date, they’re level of interest isn’t high enough to reach the trigger level.
Chances are that they have numbers from people at other parties too and also, just because they ask you for your number – just means that they asked you for their number. They could just be interested in you as a friend, or a potential one, a booty call, or a date.
You have no idea why they asked you for their number – what their intentions are or were, they never revealed. They didn’t sign a deal- means go no further.
I like Natalie’s post about putting away the choose me stick. But myself and a lot of us also need to *put away the projector* that we have got. This is how I fell into my fantasy relationship – choose me stick, no boundaries, trying to please and be validated and a gigantic projector the size of a lighthouse that would immediately beam any unavailable or assclown in a warm, bright, angelic halo.
@tired…yeh, I follow you. Notice, I did nothing after they asked for my card, but smile and be polite; no fantasies. Naturally they owe me nothing in return, naturally. I was just puzzled they bothered asking, since they’re in my social circle and act flirty everytime I see them. I’ll be seeing them this week, with a friendly smile while stepping away from them… towards the light 🙂
Flower,
Perhaps, it’s just an ego thing: seeing how much contact info they can collect. If so, it’s sad
Allison
my gut says they want me to chase them for a quick roll in the hay-IGNORE. Its like guys on a dating site sending a wink instead of writing a message IGNORE.
I’m glad to be at this point in my life where I have the clarity and maturity to vet men. I don’t chase men and don’t have fanasties about fake/non existant relationships. Its refreshing to see it all very clear-eyed, leaving the focus for productive pursuits.
I had to learn the hard way to show up was not meant being real. It meant putting the relationship or possible relationship ‘at risk’. I couldn’t keep my mouth shut. I had to act as if my feelings, thoughts and experiences were important.
This approach eliminating more women, but the others developed into amazing relationships.
I like that what you say. We have to act as our feelings, thoughts and experiences are important.
Yeah, we also do have feelings and expectations, not only the other part.
Thank you! I needed to hear this right now! I.ve been talking to a man for 2 years now, a personal trainer I met once after introductions on a dating site.
He knew I was over weight and pursued me anyway even though I’m not his type. After we met he helped me with a fitness plan, continued to call me every night for a year & a half, as I lost 50 pounds.
I have grown extremly attached to him & asked him where he see’s our relationship going, he stated he doesn’t know, that he wants me to continue to work on my goals, focus & to “behave”. I have been confused many times by his mixed signals and often felt very connected and secure one day then confused & rejected the next.
I’m anxious about when we will meet again, he said will take place when I’m ready and he has the time in his schedhel. My friends all give me a different opinion which adds to my confusion.
Thank you again for your insight, =)
Seeking clarity in cali
Kathy
it was nice of him to help you!
Two years?? You’re in the friendship zone and you’re being managed and you’re on hold. There is no romantic relationship. Please don’t be confused any longer, you’re free to tell him goodbye so that you may move on with your romantic life.
Kathy, his “I don’t know” tells you everything you need to know. Grab that Choose Me stick back, and rewrite it to read: I Choose Myself. Then bid this guy adieu, and choose to free yourself up for a mutual relationship.
“behave”?!?
you might maybe possibly sort of have a chance for a relationship when you’ve reshaped your body to meet his expectations?
controlling narcissist … run!
Ah, yes, I got a whiff of Svengali when I read that bit about behaving. Eeks.
I think he wants to be friends and maintain the business relationship. Perhaps, you can fins a new trainer if it is too difficult.
Sorry, but I don’t see anything that says narcissist here.
Danger!
When I was last on a dating (assclown sites?) site you would not believe:
1. How many fake profiles there were
2. How many people were in open relationships, cheating or had ‘revolving doors’
3. How many people were walking & talking facebook and twitter feeds (tell you everything but never progresses in the real world)
4. *How many were pedelling porn videos to their personal porn channel*
5 * How many were pedelling fitness supplements, of fitness plans (taking advantage of people body image and sex appeal and how that fits in with self-esteem particularly on dating sites)*
6 * How many were agents for scams or trying to sign people up
for other dating sites*
If they don’t live with you, if they don’t sleep with you, if they haven’t signed the deal or put in an application and more than one or two months has gone by, and there are no plans for anything, YOU ARE NOT in a relationship.
My suggestion would be to break up, and go NCR. It doesn’t matter if he is nice, he is EU. And I think there is an extremely high possibility that there are other people in the picture too as well.
I think getting professional psycological help before you do this is essential because fantasy relationship break ups (at least for me) hurt like hell (but staying is even worse) and took months to recover from. My self identity and self worth totally and completely collapsed in the fallout (but I recovered, thank GOD).
This is the deal you seem to be currently in, and have signed up to:
—————
Unavailable – Terms and Conditions
—————
* We have no official title
* This situation could go on like this forever and ever –
you could be 80 and in a nursing home and still trying to get
a proper relationship with me
* Contact is only for work purposes or by phone
* You will be slotted into restricted time slots on my terms when I feel like it
* I will manage down your expectations
* We will not live together
* I may be seeing someone else
__________ Your Signature
^^ This is a bad deal!
t_o_a
Love the contract concept – very good way to force oneself into reality!
This post is so true. I can’t believe how right-on the writer is. It’s like she’s lived 1000 lives!
YEAH!! it’s only when you really realize that a happy, healthy partnership will evolve from a MUTUAL attraction to MORE than just materialistic, basic things (looks, a few common interests etc) that you drop the Choose Me Stick. If it’s a good match, things will likely flow smoothly from fairly early on. A mutual attraction is fairly common in healthy, happy relationships, right from the outset or at least very early on. He doesn’t choose you, you choose EACH OTHER.
I think the Choose Me Stick thing comes from low self worth. Low self worth comes from putting OTHER ppl (or rather, the image you have of these other people) up above your own view of yourself.
Just when I thought things were getting a bit better, here I come to try to be the “Chosen One” or two men who didn’t give me the time of day after they both kissed me. Of course I was thinking that kiss meant something more, but alas it didn’t. And I started feeling a bit of resentment and jaded over crap.
Guess what my action plan after weeks of not hearing from them, or them making excuses every time I wanted to see them…DELETE! Yes, I deleted them from my phone and that’s that. And guess what? It feels great!
I refuse to let others choose me, I have to choose what’s right for ME! Thanks Nat…once again…you nailed it!
Karina…see how easy it is? And when you see those dudes give them a smile and keep on stepping!
Yes! Same for people who want your facebook. Ugh!
If I’m in a tight situation, I give them my facebook, and then delete the request, or I add them and then delete them the next day.
Usually I find that they have 800 – 1000 ‘friends’ (bullsh*t) and that they’re adding 4-5 people per week to their facebook and these profile images usually have people in revealing clothing or semi-naked showing off their bodies.
FLUSH!!
@tired, yes. I don’t do Facebook with men unless its biz or friends no new guys are going to be browsing at my pics and surfing my friends list, noseying about. One of the dudes in my social circle who acts flirty & asked for contact info but never wrote me an email, sent a FB request. How stupid does he think I am? Talk about entitled lazy and clueless. Ignore. He can go to my fan page like everybody else.
Thanks Nat. This post really spoke to me today.
I’m getting frustrated with the whole dating thing. Since my break up 4.5 months ago, I dated one man for two months who chose not to continue the relationship because of his unavailability (work and going through divorce); and then proceeded to date another guy (the one I met at a wedding and had amazing chemistry with) for a month, for him to tell me he “wasn’t over his ex” and didn’t want to continue things. It does make you think, “What’s wrong with me?”.
I’ve gone back to online dating, and while I’ve had close to 1000 contacts, I can honestly say that only a small handful sound promising. I went on dates with two of these guys, no physical attraction with one, no physical or mental click with the other. Another guy that I do like, lives on the other side of the country, so that’s out. I’m just getting frustrated – why is it so frigging hard to find someone that you click and who likes you in return? You either like them, but they don’t like you; or they like you, but you don’t like them. The scenario leading to a relationship, where both of you like each other, and it’s good timing, seems nigh on impossible.
I’m spending a lot of time and energy on trying to find a life partner. Finding someone seems to have consumed most of my life at the moment. However, am I trying too hard to be “chosen”? I’m thinking that I may need to give up dating for a while, and just focus on finishing my PhD, as my life is basically on hold until the PhD is finished. Maybe the old adage, “you meet someone when you least expect it” is true? Surely, it shouldn’t be this hard!
LA, dating is supposed to be fun; it’s not a job. I would definitely encourage you to take a break and focus solely on your interests and goals. Sounds like you are losing yourself in the whole looking for mate process. Choose YOU!
RML,
Thank you! Exactly the words I needed to hear! I’m certainly not enjoying dating at the moment. Instead, I’ve turned into a very methodical, job-like process . If I do A (go on one awful date after another) I will get to Point B (a relationship). However, you are right. In doing so, I’ve lost sight of my life, my interests and my goals.
Being a little bit of a control freak, I don’t like the fact that I have no control over this aspect of my life. It frustrates me that I can control nearly every other important area of my life (career, education, lifestyle, finances), however, something that is so important to me – a partner and eventually a family, seems in many ways, out of my control and up to pure chance and luck. Hence, why I’ve been throwing all my energy and time behind this.
Maybe my lesson here is to accept that I cannot control everything in this life. Maybe I need to step back, take a breather, relax, and go with the flow a little more…
LA
If he’s not over the ex, why would you think there’s something wrong with you? Praise the Lord, I no longer see any connection whatsoever between the two. Maybe there’s something wrong with HIM for putting himself out there when he’s not available.
A couple of times I have sparked amazing chemistry with men. But I’ve not done anything about it (they’re too young) and – it just went away and now we are just barely acquaintances/colleagues.
Chemistry is a trick of biology, or the light, or a memory being triggered. It’s a nice to have, but it should be about 10% of a relationship, not 110% as so many seem to think.
grace,
You’re right. Great chemistry doesn’t always lead to a great relationship. I guess I’ve only ever come across that rare chemical combo with one other guy in my life, so I found it hard to let go. I have let this wedding guy go though. He invited me out last week, and then cancelled on me at the last minute – so I flushed him.
While chemistry doesn’t make a relationship, shouldn’t there be some physical attraction there, as well as mental attraction? I guess I’m looking for that *click* – where it just feels right. Maybe that does develop over time, but it’s harder for this to develop with guys that you meet online, as the set up can be quite forced and unnatural.
Dear LA,
I am finishing my PhD too (ha ha), and I have been in a situation that sounds similar to yours. My problem is that I’m trying to have it all – let go for a while and be yourself, enjoy yourself and *give up* for a while. Ban dating for a while – 6 months or a year.
Nothing is wrong with you (ok, maybe you have low self esteem and are a fallback) – they just didn’t want to commit, and 90% of the time the reasons they give are dodgy anyway. Put someone else in their situation and I’m sure they would have come up with the same result – it is not about you.
I’m spending a lot of time and energy on trying to find a life partner. Finding someone seems to have consumed most of my life at the moment. However, am I trying too hard to be “chosen”? I’m thinking that I may need to give up dating for a while, and just focus on finishing my PhD, as my life is basically on hold until the PhD is finished.
The key thing here is that it is very likely that you have sacrificed yourself and that you have no capacity for a relationship *anyway* while this is going through.
I’d strongly suggest a dating detox- ban and take down online dating sites and profiles. I thought I would never cope after being on dating sites for *years* – the validation crack and excitement factor was addictive- but I manged to do it – went back a few times – but now I’ve banned them permanently. Life is good!
Hi t_o_a,
Yes, the validation crack and excitement factor of online dating is addictive. I also suffer from the thinking that if I’m not “out there”, I may miss an opportunity to meet someone special.
Are you on a dating hiatus now? How long have you been on one for? Are you waiting until you finish the PhD? I’m at the last stages of the PhD and if I’m honest, probably don’t have time for dating. Finishing this PhD is very stressful and life-consuming exercise – my whole life has basically been put on hold for the last three years. If I’m honest with myself, I’m probably using dating as a way to fill the social void that comes with trying to finish the thesis – it can be a very isolating at times.
“….surely you don’t want to give it to any ‘ole muppet off this street?” LOL and AMEN!! I just LOVE you Natalie! xoxo
I agree totally with this post, however I am so unsure of myself. I have done this (made myself fit with him) but have only ever been in two relationships, my first at 13 which resulted in two children at 16 and 19 and lasted for over ten years and then twelve years later with an assclown (emotionally unavailable man) which lasted for four years. Im scared and unsure of myself and don’t want to chase but don’t really know what being proactive in a healthy way looks like.
Keep reading. Go back and read all the columns or as many as you can and it will start to come clear to you.
Hi-thanks for the kind words…
It really struck me that he kept showing up, not because I thought he was finally changed, but because he kept wanting ME to have changed as well. He is just in the same position as I am. He is probably as frustrated as I am with him that I am not giving him what he wants…and I can’t. Even if I tried, I couldn’t. That is what changed things for me. To realize I can’t & he wanted that. And CHOOSING to continue to engage with him & allow him any access to me would be choosing my own unhappiness. It would be ME making myself unhappy at this point, not him.
And because of the way he treated me, I can’t even fantasize about friendship.
Even though I went NC in September, he still had access. Now there is none. I am sad, but I’m making space for people I can count on & strengthening my bonds with who I already have that has my back.
I was not really letting go until I blocked/deleted. And I’m so grateful you all here understand the magnitude of those actions.
I have so much hope for all of us to choose happiness…love to you all
Good for you Eternal Summer, you really sound like that door is now firmly closed shut…..I too hope to be in your position within the next few months. I’m on day 20 of NC and so proud of my achievements so far. Ok, so he is still in my phone for now under the name Scumbag, but with time that will be deleted and I will hopefully forget his number.
My experience sounds similar to yours…..I always wanted him to choose me. Him returning every so often to see if I’d changed and me hoping he had changed. But ultimately, like you I’ve now realised he could never give me what I truly want and I could not give him what he wanted (turning a blind eye to his cheating ways). Some other poor woman is now doing that…although she probably still thinks he’s Mr Wonderful!
So looking forward to reaching the one month mark of NC. I will be treating myself to a massage and facial and will congratulate myself for making the right choice……CHOOSING ME!!!!
M x
“He is probably as frustrated as I am with him that I am not giving him what he wants…and I can’t.” Eternal Summer, your whole comment was food for thought and this in particular resonated with me. I actually think my AC thinks with a few tweaks to who I am he would choose me. It’s razymaking stuff but looking at it your way is helping me toward acceptance rather than staying in anger and hurt. Thank you!
Hi Natalie. Thank you for this article today. It was definitely what I needed to hear right now. I have been reading your blog for the past 4 months and it has been so very helpful to me. I appreciate your words of wisdom and all the food for thought that you give to each of your readers.
Instead, you’re taking a more passive role where you’re happy to be the passenger on whatever journey the driver takes you on, just as long as they take you on a journey and keep driving.
I think I have always been happy to be the passenger going on dangerous drives clinging on for dear life.
I can say in my early dating life I went on these rides in complete ignorance about how dating worked, I always thought I had to be chosen and I had no choice but to go along for the drive.
I have many a bad accident going over the cliff etc. probably hasn’t really clicked for me that I get a say in what I want in a relationship till quite recently.
It is frustrating though that I know I am still emotionally unavailable and would probably still choose the wrong car to go driving in… still knowledge is power.
I’m right with you there Tulipa!
A lot of dating profiles online have ‘no dramas’ and to be honest, I never saw myself as a drama seeker. What was drama – I couldn’t imagine it, and of course I would be such a goody goody that I would comply and roll over so there was no drama.
You’re right about the crazy journey though – cue, fireworks, explosions, romeo and juliet style balcony proclamations, stolen moments in alleyways, phone calls late at night, seduction and betrayal – sounds like a action thriller blockbuster than a decent stable partner…
Drama in the context of an AC/EUM is when you take them up on their crap. They’re basically looking for a woman who is willing to put up with their bull without kicking up a fuss. I got accused of being dramatic with an exAC after becoming extremely upset over something very very legitimate. He could just not see things nor did he want to see things from my perspective. So I was causing this ‘massive drama’ over nothing? In the end I didn’t cause as much fuss as I should have because I was afraid of being cast into this dreaded ‘drama queen’ category. What a load of BS.
I would avoid anyone who says ‘no dramas’ in a profile. In fact t-o-a I would agree with you to just avoid online dating sites altogether. There are a lot of predators and sex pests out there who are either EUM in some manner or who reputations are so shoddy in their real life that online dating is their only refuge. Some however just simply wish to add to their harem for the purpose of having go-to’s for ego boosts and ‘options’.
@ t-o-a Haha yeah the ones with 800 friends..hmmmm. You do wonder where they have met all of these women?
Emma
I made this mistake as well. I remember going on my first date with the AC and one of the things he told me was that he doesn’t “do drama”. When the red flags were blowing in my face I didn’t want or know how to confront him because I didn’t want him to see me as a woman that “does drama”. When I finally asked him “where this was going” he told me what he knew I wanted to hear and that was last time we saw each other. After that it was excuse after excuse as to why I couldn’t see him then he went NC on me and disappeared!
ACs don’t like being called up on their BS, as soon as you do that, they delete and move on!
I don’t know how many friends he has on Facebook, because his page/wall/friends are completely private. But he also said most of his FB friends were women.
ps I met him on eHarmony!
surely you don’t want to give it to any ‘ole muppet off this street?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vmVCS4qGoA&feature=related
hehe we should be asking are they a man or a muppet ?
NML; I do believe you are gifted and coming to this site is addictive. There are many readers on BR who are in the infancy stages of discovering EU and recognizing themselves in the blogs. And, there are the women who are quick learners and dignified communicators who follow this advice and get it right every time. However, even they are still single. I would like to see a BR progress chart- i.e. doing it all right for a year will net you the relationship results you want. But men do have the power base here, since marriage is what we are all craving, yet not something you get to decide for yourself, and you DO need to wait for a man who wants to ask you, or would be receptive to you asking him. My point, even doing every thing perfectly, by having the right attitude, career, goals, demeanor, appearance is simply making changes to put ourselves in scoring position, we are still Inertia. (Definition) ‘the property of matter by which it retains its state of rest or its velocity along a straight line so long as it is not acted upon by an External Force.’
Anon
If you believe men have all the power (which I don’t, I think we hand it over even if they don’t want it) the solution is still the same. STOP CHOOSING UNAVAILABLES! It’s mindboggling to me now that women, who say they want marriage, hook up with – married men. He’s already married! He can’t marry you (unless you’re in a polygamous society). Ditto, men who say they don’t want a relationship, won’t be exclusive, can’t even plan a date, flirts with other women, is hung up on an ex. Why the hell would we think THEY want to get married?
And, no, not all of us do crave marriage. I don’t. I don’t feel that “still single” is a “less than” state. In fact, it feels very me. My reservation around relationships isn’t so much that men are this, that or the other, I can’t imagine being happier than I am now – single and living on my own. Living on my own I adore. I did consider marrying someone and living in a separate home then realised that was a very EU way to think
But, I also know that life changes. It’s inevitable. We aren’t just physical bodies. We can’t stay in a state of inertia indefinitely. Something will happen. If you choose to wait for an external force to make your life, then that’s your prerogative. I’m certainly not living that way anymore.
Grace, I have never hooked up with a married man, ever. See message details again- did every thing RIGHT.
Anon
Sorry, that was a general comment but he doesn’t have to married to be unavailable.
You have to own your choices and what you do and your future. By asking Nat for a timeline, you want HER to take responsibility. “I’ve done x,y, z. Where’s my relationship. Give me a guarantee”.
There is no one here who gets it right every time. We are all finding our way. By dividing women up into Us (“still single”, in inertia) and Them ( get it right, get married) you’re limiting your options.
I’ll quote it again, because I finally get it.
“What a man thinks, so he is”.
It’s from the bible, but I wasn’t familiar with it until I read it again in a book written by a woman who was sexually abused as a child, went on to have enormous difficulty with adult relationships but did turn her life around (and is married with a child though that is NOT the definition of success).
It’s called New Shoes.
It used to wind me up that every self help book and counsellor and advice column and even BR says the solution is in our hands. But it is. Whose else could it be in? For me, I’ve handed my life over to God. That may be for you but for sure don’t hand it over to some mythical man to come in and choose you.
“There are many readers on BR who are in the infancy stages of discovering EU and recognizing themselves in the blogs. And, there are the women who are quick learners and dignified communicators who follow this advice and get it right every time. However, even they are still single. I would like to see a BR progress chart- i.e. doing it all right for a year will net you the relationship results you want. “
I’m with Anon, and think Anon has a rather profound point.
I’ve been lurking for some time, and I feel like I’ve observed that there is soooo much energy being poured into “getting and staying away from the negative“, in contrast to taking active action to seek out and nuture positive romantic relationships.
I’m not saying — and I don’t think Anon is either, though not to put words in anyone’s mouth — that an enormous amount of energy needs to be expended in order to break bad patterns.
I know I’m saying — and I think Anon is too — “So. Now. You’ve broken the old patterns. You’ve put away your Choose Me Stick. Okay.
NOW what???”
Isn’t there some Einstein quote about insanity being doing the same thing over and over, but expecting a different result?
What about a different model?
What about some comments from the ladies — including, IINM, the original author — who have broken away from their negative patterns, and are, instead, doing things right … and the results they’re getting?
m
Hmm, we are seeing different things. I see lots of women here who are making enormous progress. Must be the observer seeing different things depending on their vantage point.
Today, I asked the man I like to walk me home from church because of the snow. He offered me his arm because it was slippery. We laughed all the way down the hill. Some might see that as nothing but for me it’s amazing.
m, Hello…can I just ask have you read my post which is placed below yours? I posted it yesterday?
Now can I ask because you seem to suggest that there are no success stories, including asking Natalie to’prove’ hers…how long have you been ‘lurking’ on this site(your words).
If you had truly read the readers posts you would see that many are dating again or about to,there is trepidation for sure, but there is also great encouragement and feedback from other women on site. The site deals with making yourself whole enough to date, surely a precursor to success. That takes a while for some women. It’s not sg you learn by rote. It is hard work, whats wrong with that?
What there isn’t(and I pray to God, there will never be!!) Is some sort of League Table or Progress Chart?which sets us up against one another and means that we can’t admit mistakes or share freely.
If you need to check Natalie’s breaking away from ‘Bad Habits’ history, you could have checked her biography bit at the top of site?(or read her comments to readers)
ps. We often use the Insanity quote(your example) on this site, we use it as a means to ‘ Not Repeat’ the Insanity. It seems to be a good model,not sure why you suggest getting a new one.
Thanks m. You are correct. NML discovered her UE issues while she was in her twenties, and met her partner within weeks and quickly had two babies. Now, that is progress! Those results pack a wallop. Besides her, there are not a lot of those stories on this blog. The other contributors make progress in the “I’m not picking up his calls or sleeping with him anymore” variety for months on end. And, good for them, they are content to protect themselves and discover themselves and blog about it. Grace, it is nice that a man walked you home from church. You are basking in happiness and hope today that healthy partners are out there. However, if he shows up with another women next week, or leaves town, you’ll feel bad. When you are single, you are at the mercy of these temporary situations. If you had a partner, you would have some thing permanent and not be wasting any head space on these social interactions, b/c your social calendar is filled with your family. I have been going to church alone for years, and it has lost its luster. Families everywhere, I feel more alone there than at the bar. I used to try to talk myself out of that, but now I praise God from my home now, and pray he understands.
Right, I have been following this rather strange discussion but when I saw a very blatant exaggeration, it’s time to draw a line.
Anon, I met my partner when I was 28 years and 9 months, 8, almost 9 months after I recognised my issues, not two weeks. The two numbers are not even close and while the exaggeration may suit the agenda of your comment, if it were true, it would completely change the nature of this site.
Next, if you want a schedule, you’re at the wrong site. There are however a lot of sites and books that do catch him in X amount of days and I know that Tulipa has recommended one book so there’s plenty there to get you started. Nobody gave me a schedule!
Next, if you’re doing everything ‘right’ as you claim you are, there’s nothing I can do to help you. You have nothing new to learn, after all, if you didn’t believe you were doing everything right, you’d have room for movement. I don’t do everything right, nor do most people. To have found not one, but two people in this thread of comments who conduct themselves perfectly is literally like lightening striking twice.
I would also like to clear up one other thing implied in these comments – many readers here as well as I, have made mistakes in our past, some that we’re not particularly proud of. Yes some have been with married men but the fact that you deem yourself “RIGHT” doesn’t mean that you’re more entitled than them. It was also unnecessary to ‘shit’ on Grace’s comment.
There are quite a few readers who are in relationships, off traveling, have started businesses, engaged, or who have got married plus some have had babies, adopted, fostered, changed careers, created whole new lives, completely dealt with their pasts and more – that’s what there happiness and success looks like to them. Some still read, some still comment, most keep in touch with me and I’ve even met up with some of them, but what all of them are off doing is living their lives as you would expect. Due to the nature of the topics, you don’t have a whole load of people who are claiming to be happy spending all of their time commenting here. That doesn’t mean that all people here are unhappy – far from it. Most people here are here for inspiration and tools to apply to their own lives.
aww, Grace- that is amazing! So glad to hear your fear didn’t stop you from asking, and that you had a fun walk home in the snow. What a lucky guy : )
Anon
I will be sad, but it’s not going to tear me down like it would have in the past. I’m more concerned about his age actually. I’m 47 and the more I look at him and talk to him, the younger he seems. What I’m happy about is that I wanted to walk home with him and I asked him. I have actively avoided men (and social activities) like the plague and now I feel that maybe a new chapter is opening up. Maybe I will meet a man, yes, but the main change is that I am not lonely anymore. I chat to everyone at church. I especially like to talk to the elderly widows and spinsters. Cos that could be me one day.
Marriage is no guarantee that you will be happy. Since the age of 15 I was permanently in relationships until I was in my 40s. I was even married. I am happier now than I ever was. And I will be even if this man turns out to be, in my sister’s words, “a baby” and I’ll have to call time on it. I will be disappointed, yes, but I no longer allow fear of things going wrong to make me retreat into my shell.
I understand the need to cut yourself off and stay home. It’s what I used to do, it was my go-to solution. I’m happy that I’ve changed that about me.
Christianity is built about a church life. because we belong to a family:
“He was cut off from the land of the living” (not a good thing)
“It is not good for man to be alone”(, or woman).
It’s about more than getting married. We are social animals, like it or not. I’m learning to like it. I don’t consider any of it a waste of headspace just because I don’t have a partner.
Abby
Thanks. He IS a lucky guy! I make people laugh. (Sometimes unintentionally but never mind).
Anon,
You do seem to see marriage/relationships as the be all and end all. It was that kind of thinking that lead me to rush a man down the aisle that I really was not compatible with. And now we have a train wreck of divorce to get through. And 2 kids who will be hurt. I wouldn’t wish my kids away but I should have picked much more carefully and had better self esteem and self knowledge. Then to add to my troubles an MM.
Being single doesn’t look so bad from where I am sitting. Being either married or single isn’t a measure of success. Being happy and living well is. You can’t scientifically measure it, but I do think it more likely you’d meet a nice guy if you are and more able to cope if you don’t.
Have to come in here Anon, appreciate your interesting posts but I am not in inertia… Here is why;
I have been on BR for 3 years, came on to gain insight into my own emotional unavailability and understand the EUM relationship I was continuing. By staying on the site I have gained focus into earlier childhood stuff and it’s lasting reverberations into my adult relationship choices. This has improved measurably my relationships with my family, some friends and my love life.
I went NC after 18 month relationship, stuck to it, signed up for NC newsletter , continued to share with the brilliant women(and men) here. Result: Better motivation and striving in my career,massively increased self-esteem,true behaviourhal change, on a daily basis to my ‘Florencing’, a reduction in fearing the future…I live life much more in the Now.
Finally, I have a date next Saturday, not as a result of random chance or online searching but because I am reconsidering a guy, have known for a while who before BR I might not of considered due to my poor relationship habits. I’m hopeful.
I am in my forties, have twenty one year old son, was married….it does work. Not overnight…you do have to work hard and an attitude of expectation and positivity helps.
You quote a definition that I recognise from my physics class, I would counter with a philosphy ‘It does not matter how slowly you go as long as you do not stop’ Confucius.
As you said, Anon I did make changes to put myself in the ‘scoring position’ and I did not discover Inertia.
“But men do have the power base here, since marriage is what we are all craving,”
This is a false statement on multiple levels.
First, not all of us crave marriage — I certainly don’t. I thrive in long-term monogamous relationships, and that is what I’m seeking. Marriage doesn’t appeal to me.
Second, men do not have the power base unless we choose to cede it to them. There are plenty of commitment-minded men out there (including marriage-minded ones, for those of us who are looking to wed eventually). I’m confident stating this, because I know quite a few, across different age ranges, and continue to meet suitors in my age range (40s and 50s) who are looking for longterm monogamous partners. I haven’t found a proper partner yet, but I have met some solid gents.
I think it’s important not to fool ourselves with the myth of scarcity. I read a LOT of posts here from women who have developed a poverty mentality re: the availability of good men; this thinking is often based on anecdata, fear-mongering articles in women’s magazines, or simply things we repeat amongst ourselves unquestioningly.
Part of losing the Choose Me stick is instead choosing to think critically, and to seek positive reality-based alternatives to the negative falsehoods being perpetuated.
Marriage doesn’t equal happiness.
Happiness equals happiness.
I love this blog and continually get unbelievable insight from reading. I’ve personally always “read” it from perhaps a little of a different perspective. I don’t think about it in terms of correct behaviors to net the relationship results I want, but rather in terms of understanding my own wants/needs/values and how to ensure the choices I make are consistent with those things. It’s like a primer in not trying to cram a square peg into a round hole… something I’ve been guilty of perhaps my whole life.
Having the “choose me” stick is a wonderful analogy to this way of thinking. “Having the stick” is akin to thinking that as long as the square peg chooses me, the round hole of my wants/needs/values is somehow unimportant, or can be subjugated somehow.
I am a big believer in self-love, self-affirmation and self-reliance. I’d even go so far as to say those things are pre-requisite to mature connection with another. However I also understand that people are wired in different ways. Not better/worse; just different. In relationship terms, I think that means that some of us are simply happier in relationships than not and that’s OKAY. It’s *okay* to value love and to want it in our lives.
In my opinion, there’s something to the theories on adult attachment. There is a portion of the population who is more occupied with the pursuit of relationships than others; I count myself among them. At the same time, those of us for whom that’s true should understand our own needs perhaps even more than others. If so, the trick then is to make choices that are truly consistent with those needs and values. I read this blog as promoting behavior toward doing just that. I don’t necessarily read it as describing behavior to getting the relationship in the first place.
I hope that made sense!
Anerak
I agree, for me this isn’t about finding a relationship.
But I disagree somewhat on one thing – more people are looking for love than will admit it. Maybe even me. Eek.
Yeah, I’m very contradictory, I’m working on that.
Hi Anon,
I’m sorry I can no longer remember the website link.
The book I bought from this link is called
‘How to get a Date Worth Keeping’ By Dr. Henry Cloud
I’m sure this book came with a money back gurantee if you didn’t have a relationship at the end of a period of time, mind you you had to follow his advice.
It is also written very much from a christian point of view.
I don’t know if anyone has read it and it has ‘worked’ for them,
I haven’t finished reading it at the time of purchasing it I was still too caught up with ex eum nor did I want to deal with my own unavailability.
I think I also have a degree of skepticism when it comes to if you do x y z you will be married or in a relationship.
I should add that on the front cover of the book it says
Be dating in six months or your money back.
I remember having the ‘who-has-all-the-power’? conversation with a male friend a few years ago – I said that men do, and he said “no, women do, because they’re ultimately the ones to say ‘yes’ or ‘no'”
I don’t particularly know whether I think that this scenario is right or wrong BUT I do think that it at least allows a degree of protection for the woman. You can say no. You have the right to make a choice. In an ideal world you are educated in the characteristics of the sort of man that you want to say ‘yes’ to.
In my opinion, the problem with modern culture and society is that women are told – fairly consistently from some quarters – that they DON’T have the right to say no. Look at the number of stories on this site about men who keep coming back and repeating the same behaviour (some of it scary/dangerous/threatening) despite being asked not to. It gets to the point where you assume that there’s something wrong with YOU for asking.
They’re misinformed about the sorts of qualities that make a successful relationship – films, books, not to mention a bad family precedent in a lot of cases. They’re trained into behaviour patterns (like being the Good Girl) that aren’t helpful when it actually comes down to choosing a mate.
So, not only are they in a position of less power to begin with (if you choose to see it like that), they’re then strenuously encouraged to throw up the power that they DO have in the interests of not being ‘demanding’ or ‘high-maintenance’. It’s sneaky and it’s clever and while some people are grounded enough to ignore it, some of us aren’t.
(Don’t even get me STARTED on the values that are imbued into men. I should add that I know it isn’t exclusively a gender issue and I do believe that both men and women are short-changed by the current system, but that’s the way that I see it).
The all-time beauty of this site is that it encourages women (/people) to take back the power of being able to say ‘No’. And no, it isn’t changing the old system, but quite frankly I think that the revolting mess that society made of the situation when it attempted to do so last time around is argument enough against it, tbh. I prefer inertia to deliberately making myself emotionally and physically vulnerable and believing that that’s ‘normal’.
Another thing I’ve realised is that I’ve realised that the price that I’ll have to pay for being patient, for making sure that I’m in a fit state to start a healthy relationship AND for meeting someone that I find attractive AND reliable enough to be happy with, is TIME. And the element of doubt.
The cost of being choosy is turning people down even when they’d fix the short-term problems of loneliness or self-doubt. I think that it boils down to patience.
So I don’t think that a time-scale is a good idea, it puts you under pressure that you don’t need. Admittedly I’d personally have more chance if I was getting out and about and trying to meet people (between the baby and work I have approximately three minutes to myself per day) – so some people will move quicker than other.
The good news, I suppose, is that waiting patiently is a lot easier when you aren’t taking your single state as a reflection of all your personal shortcomings and failings and you’re not accepting shoddy treatment to fill in the gaps 🙂
That’s it I think. I should add, though, that BR has been directly responsible for me a) deciding not to stay in an awful situation b) not having a nervous breakdown (probably) and c) therefore being able to raise a healthy happy child. Whether or not I get a relationship again I’m always going to be pretty grateful for it! Thanks Nat.
Yoghurt,
This an interesting debate but your last comment sums me up.
I found the go-round with the MM was so very bad, so painful and debilitating that it screwed me up and caused me to screw up a lot of other things. Work, children, family & friendships were all affected. My purpose in vein here is a) to get over it and live a happy free life and be there for the people who need me and b) to make sure I don’t ever get in such a state again.
My own situation is that I am married, legally separated, but still living under the same roof, my marriage has been over really for a long time but there are huge problems with him moving out, the first of which being he won’t leave, and admittedly it will be financially difficult for him. Hes on the list for council housing, but the list is long, it could be years,’and he cannot afford a private tenancy in this area, certainly not one big enough to allow him to have the kids to stay. So that problem has to be addressed and dealt with before I can think about another relationship, my bad for getting involved with someone else before that was sorted.
yogurt
Yes, BR is directly responsible for me not having sex with the married returning childhood sweetheart. I was in knots over wanting him to CHOOSE ME. Even though I didn’t really want him. We broke up because – wait for it – other women!
I think I found this site googling something pathetic like how can I make him choose me? The irony.
mymble – that’s it exactly I think. I was practically insane with everything that was going on, and you know, it’s just SO NICE being in control of my life again. I’m sure that I’ll take the risk of getting into a relationship again at some stage, but right now I’m going to enjoy Not Being Insane and focusing on the people who’ve had a raw deal from knowing me over the last two years.
grace – I loved your comment above about talking to everyone, everywhere. When I’m ‘on form’ (ie not insane/broken/about to burst into tears) I love doing that – it’s been a measure of my state of mind that I’m starting to chat to people again.
It occurs to me, as well, that the reason that people don’t come on here and say “Hey! I’m in a happy new relationship!” is because they’re actually off out HAVING the relationship. I lean pretty heavily on this site at the minute because I need to (having son’s dad in the picture three or four times a week means that there’s too much potential to go veering off the right path into a ditch), and I comment a fair bit because I’m going !epiphanyepiphanyepiphany! all the time.
When I’m sorted and in a relationship then I won’t need to – I’d like to think that I’ll still be focused on the concepts and look in every so often but I think that people’d tire of hearing me say “hey! I’m in a RELATIONSHIP!” over and over again. It wouldn’t add anything to the debate.
Brilliant post. Sometime ago, I was talking through my dating woes with a married girlfriend who has never had bad relationship experiences. I remember saying to her something along the lines of “I’m not sure whether he likes me or not, or wants to be with me” about someone new I was dating.
She told me I was approaching dating arse about face. She said it’s not about whether he likes you and wants to be with you, it’s about you deciding whether *you* like him and choose to be with him. She also said that it’s not just a decision you make at the beginning, but one you have to consistently think about throughout the relationship. I know it sounds crazy, but this was all new to me.
I recognise now that I was putting myself on the back foot by approaching dating in the way that I was. I kept giving my power and self esteem away by putting myself in situations where my feelings of inferiority/ not being worthy would be confirmed in some way.
How is it that in a day and age where women can hold their own financially, can vote, own property, hold a place in a political office, can even have a baby without a man that we are STILL feeling at the mercy of a man? Let’s get with it ladies!! It’s time for another revolution! I for one am straight up sick of feeling like I have to bend to the norms of society (get married, have kids) and many of my choices are little more than real life Beavis and Buttheads. Seriously? Men are EUM/AC because WE LET THEM! If we all stopped choosing them because society tells us it’s what we have to do then they would eventually have to straighten up or be voted off the island…because another women isn’t waiting in the wings!! I am resolved to spend the rest of my life alone if I have to. I will NOT settle for less than a mutually fulfilling, co-piloted, loving, supportive relationship ever again. BECAUSE WE DON’T HAVE TO!
I loved reading this. It is great.
And I agree. You know, it’ll be shame if someone as great as me with all my fine qualities ( 😀 ) ends up dying alone. BUT if it happens, at least I want to be able to look back on a life happy and well-lived. Not one where I spent all of my time beating myself up because I wasn’t ‘chosen’.
Rah!
Nat:
You are an assclown’s worst nightmare. Because of you and your incredible wisdom there are many men getting laid less often, many falling off their pedastel right on their deflated arses but, most importantly, there are many women who are finding themselves again (me among them).
There have perhaps been 5 relationships in my life that I was ‘future faked’ into believing were’ the one’. Each one, by the time they ended had taken a huge tole on me and there were times I thought I would never recover, in fact, I am going through one such time now. But, looking back I now know that the future I had thought was going to unfold was the best thing that NEVER happened to me. Each time it was a case of being chosen and feeling validated as a woman and partner because someone had chosen me! Now I chose me! And I like how Nat has drawn parallels between job interviews and relationships. In this area I treat a job interview as an opportunity not only to be interviewed, but to also interview the company I could be working for. I have rejected lots of jobs because I have felt they weren’t right for me and invariably something much more suitable has come up. From now on I am going to take the same stance when weighing up prospective partners. They have to be right for me, and not just because they are doing the choosing!!
This post and the comments on it have been a revelation!
Looking back at my last relationship I never thought ‘Do I actually like this person?’..the main question was ‘Does he like me?’. How I felt about him was irrelevant to me.
He wasn’t even a good boyfriend. He was often offensive, critical and inconsiderate. I certainly did not feel like a priority in any way beyond the intensity of the first few weeks. I didn’t even like him towards the end, I was just clinging onto the promises that he made to me. I waited, hoped he’d snap out of it and choose me like what Natalie would describe as a disgruntled customer.
When I look back it now it’s embarrassing. How silly and nonsensical? It’s definitely something to think about for future relationships..’Do I like this person?..
So ashamed to admit I went back to try and be chosen again. This time I was just pissed off and gave it my all wanting to WIN this jackass I don’t even like. My ego got the best of me. Seriously this guy is a huge creep and I went BACK for try number three and it was only because my ego cannot conceive NOT being chosen. I’m out $500 and even more self respect.
I have my first counseling appointment on Monday. I’m a very broken person but this was exactly what I needed to read to help me get through my day. I SO wanted to be chosen by the MM AC (btw the other night I told him all about himself and then he actually became NICER to me). We are both effed up. And I STILL want him to choose me even though I don’t want to be with him. I don’t know how to let go of that.
I don’t even trust myself anymore. I want to come back on here and say I’m NC and getting better but instread I’m sharing my failures and struggles. Maybe it’ll help other people realize this process isn’t always linear… I know what my goal is and I want to get there so badly. I’m hoping therapy helps.
Lim
I can beat that. I married someone I didn’t even like very much so I could “win”.
You’re already doing better than I did.
NC him. There’s no shame in admitting that you don’t have the skills to deal with an EUM/AC. That’s not what life is for.
Oh yeah been there done that.:-(
I dislike this word “broken”. It seems to pop up a lot everywhere.
It suggests you feel you are helpless and unable to prevent yourself doing what you’re doing.
If you believe you can stop running around after him, then your belief is true. If you believe you can’t stop, then that will be true.
This was the office sex pest guy? Did you give him money? Why?
Limerence,
I’ve been there and done that too. I know it feels awful the morning after but you’ve got to chuck the Chose Me stick. I believe it was Grace or one of the other wonderful ladies on BR that pointed out to me that a MM can’t chose you. He has chosen his wife, thus the term wife!
The exMM played me like a fiddle because I allowed it in classic FBG fashion. I thought that one day he’d see how good my stick was and choose me and I would be the exception to the rule. I didn’t realize until after several suck and see’s, he was never going to prioritize me cos he had a wife. Slowly, almost imperceptibly, I started to prioritize me and by the bitter end, I didn’t really like him much either once I saw him as a cheating, lying MM who used me as a distraction. Dust yourself off and do something nice for yourself that makes you feel like you are a priority to you. Natalie is really right about the fact that ” If you prioritised you, you’d never be in a situation where someone not only has the power to decide your fate…”. I know it’s all easier said than done.
> This was the office sex pest guy? Did you give him money? Why?
YES! I’m so ashamed to admit it, but I went back trying to get validation and chosen again. This time I figured I’d go all in. My ego was (and is) out of a control. I was going to SHOW HIM how amazing and caring and patient I was and WIN HIM OVER, even if it took me giving him money, a shoulder to cry on as he’s being investigated regarding the sexual harassment at work, me bending and breaking more and more boundaries. In a way, I got what I wanted. I mean, I didn’t “win” him. He’s still with his wife. He said he “can’t” leave her. But I had him begging and chasing after me because I was “too amazing” to lose and it was “killing” him if he couldn’t be my friend. It was a big effed up ego game and in the end I hurt him and I hurt myself. I’m a poster child for how you can know the right things to do and still choose to do the wrong things. I knew what I was doing was wrong and I didn’t even CARE about him anymore but I kept going for it because I wanted to be validated and right and I couldn’t fathom not being chosen. I’m as bad as him in many ways. Maybe worse because I KNEW what I was doing was wrong. It felt so good to have the power for ONCE in this entire sick dynamic and have HIM hurting over me and begging me instead of the other way around and that’s just messed up of me. I’m SO ashamed of myself and it’s hard to even share this anonymously, but I’m hoping it can help someone see how much you can lose yourself in the games these AC (especially married ones) play. Once you let your boundaries and values slip, let them get busted down by these guys, pretty soon you’re engaging in some AWFUL, horrendous behavior yourself and busting down your own boundaries to try to even the playing field.
Yeah, so I’m off to therapy. I don’t trust myself anymore at all. Whenever I think I can’t sink any lower, I do. I’ve lost myself so much to this situation.
Sounds similar to me!
They don’t have to be married to be attached to someone else- lots of ‘open’ relationships and people cheating etc out there as well.
I have had a similar problem with getting OFF validation crack, pining and basically jiggling my ‘choose me stick’ up and down so I can get my hit of validation crack. Worse, just when I thought it was all about to end, I would regress or experience parts of the cycle or have flashbacks. Horrible.
Ego issues still need to be worked at for me, but like Nat says, judgement and good decisions get better the more you exercise them. It is coming up to a year soon that I’ve been at the Psych, but that in combination with the bans and this site have helped me recover my ashed self-esteem and self-identity.
Limerance, no shame love…just start over from here. NC is the only way out! It’s hard not looking back but once you start seeing the fog clear you will be so glad you made the choice to opt out. You know what ‘s even better than him choosing you? You NOT choosing HIM and choosing YOU! You can do it.
And we’re here to help! 🙂
Limerance, So many of us here have done the same. I’m sorting myself from it now. Rejection is the worst of the worst emotional experiences even if you are being rejected by someone you know you should be rejecting instead. Please forgive and be kind to yourself, 🙂 No, it’s not always linear. It’s a process and we get there the way we can being who we are in the moment. So many of these relationships skew our identity and thinking. The woman I once was would never have tolerated what I did or be here now but, though I may be working my way out of the damage of this relationship and seeing the light through the knowledge I’m gaining here and my own increasing strength, I still can only do what I am capable of as who I am now. When I am stronger, I will do things differently.
Nat, you know us all so well. When I think about my last relationship and the fact that the guy didnt choose me and how I felt ‘this’ was the relationship I was meant to have, I just want to slap myself upside the head. What was I thinking, I mean this guy had absolutely nothing to offer me but a lot of problems and drama, none of which came from my end at all.
Thank you flower white & tea cozy………..yes you’re very right I need to give myself permission to detatch & move forward and remind myself that no matter what fantasy ideas I had about a relationship, given all his push/pull & mixed signals we are just “friends”.
Flower white, yes I agree with you, I am very thankful to him helping me to lose 50 pounds and talking to me for 2 years on the phone every night for hours, not ever being inappropriate (trying to have phone sex) with me.
I really do see the positive & although I became extremly attached & wanted to see where it could go, I don’t believe that my waiting for him with anxiousness in my heart while he decides what he wants & expecting me to “wait and see” is not fair to me .
It doesn’t mean he’s another chump from the chump bucket, he is still a great guy, just not meant for me in that way, his prerogative. I can let him go then after some time keep him as my friend. =)
Hey Kathy! Thanks back at you. You might want to consider how you feel later on about being friends with him…if you do No Contact, which might be wise for you. Good luck whatever you decide.
Great post! The owner of my company was in town today to work an event with me and I felt so energized and positive all day. He thinks I’m fabulous, respects me, let’s me know he enjoys working with me. I feel capable and confident and all around great when we work together and I admire him, too. (There is nothing romantic in either of our minds about the other. I think is wife is a lucky woman, though, because he is a good man.) I want to be my best for him and his business. Contrast that with the AC who makes me feel less than, anxious, rejected, unsure of myself, etc., and I know him to be a liar and cheater. And, I have engaged in some pretty inauthentic and shady behavior in the relationship because it’s so twisted and broken and I’m trying to do and be things that don’t feel good or right. Why on earth am I making myself crazy over him rejecting and not choosing me?!! Whether the AC “won’t” or “can’t” become a decent man and give me a decent relationship is on him and I don’t have to choose to engage in the crazymaking nonsense or feel bad about him rejecting me.
After the good day I had with a decent man/employer and reading this post and the comments, I feel lighter and clearer on things with the AC and my role in the relationshit than I have in a while. Thank you!
I’ve been letting this piece simmer a bit in my brain before jumping in. It seems that I have had a one-or-the-other experience and nothing in-between in my entire adult dating life, including my two-year courtship and subsequent marriage to my husband which crashed shortly after take-off.
Exhibit A: No chemistry. No interest. No further exploration on my part.
Exhibit B: Instense chemistry. Lose all sense of reason. Pick me, pick me, pick me, regardless of how you’re treating me, which I can’t feel or see clearly ’cause I’m too tripped out on the dopamine rush.
Now, I know for sure there’s more to it, especially since I was raised by an emotionally distant male and harshly critical female, and do not think it’s pop-psychobabble when I say that if there is an “I can’t love you” energy coming from a guy that neither of us are even really cognizant of from the start, I will work like an addict to try to make it happen.
Done. Still reeling from the last one that I recently broke no contact with and several of you extraordinary women have weighed in on and are helping me through. He brought me to my knees and most importantly he brought me to Never Again. EVER. The great poet Rilke encourages us to live with the questions. The big one for me right now: Where do I go from here?
I teach school and I have a younger colleague who lost his sight and then his father not long after. I asked him how he ever got through it. He said: Kmac, it’s like my dad used to tell me, you get up in the morning and keep putting one foot in front of the other and hold your head up high.
Maybe it’s as simple, and impossible, as that. If my friend can live through that, then maybe we can all put our Pick Me cards away once and for all and stand together on this journey of becoming the godesses we were meant to be, whether we get picked or not.
Right on spot, Natalie!
Thanks to you and to myself, I am having one major epiphany after the other this week.
I am seeing so much more clearly, why I am acting the way I am.
I have been through a lot of shit and I have been through it alone, because i’ve learnt that nobody really cares.
In fact, my mom is supra protective and co-dependant of my brother, who, granted, did not have it easy. For me it was always ‘be a grown-up, I don’t have the energy to deal with you’.
Not only did I learn to keep everything to myself, but also that the problems of others are legitimate and that you have to take a lot of crap from them, because the poor things can’t help themselves.
I’ve managed to extricate myself from this painful familiar reject from my family by moving 1600km away (it still does hurt, mind you), but I realized just this morning, how much crap I am willing to take from others, namely boyfriends, all because I am hardwired to think that they have more legitimate reasons to feel bad/act bad etc. than I do and that I need to get the hell over it, while they can rely on me and laying yet another shitload of their problems on me, because they can and I have to be the grown-up.
Rambling again.
Long story short, I am heartbroken for myself. I will nurture myself, starting now!
Yesterday my ass-clown of 3 months showed up, behaved super-unfriendly and even dared to say that he was “bored” by the evening. He did not even show a tiny bit of affection and I went with it until later in the night, while reading this entry again (couldn’t sleep), it hit me: that’s not okay behaviour.
Now I am waiting for him to get up and FLUSH. Yes, he does have problems, but I am done waiting around for him to get better and give me what I want. I am taking that choosing-stick back. Yay!
At the risk of sounding like Snow White and naive as all hell but why are there so many f’ed up people spending their lives manipulating others rather than seeking anything of true value. I have never led someone on or wasted their time. I knew there were “bad” guys out there but I was smart, I didn’t sleep around, I’d been raised well and was no push over. I saw people but was never serious on anyone that was something that would happen later on, I wanted to study and travel etc. So why is it that I ended up spending 5 years in a very unhealthy relationship. The first 6 months was the dream come true. He was good looking, super intelligent, funny and besotted, so was I. His actions seemed to show how much he cared then gradually it came tumbling down then would reappear briefly then fall down again. That pattern continued and I used to tell myself, family and friends – it’s okay, I am a strong person, he is vulnerable has issues and I can handle this. Plus loyalty is my best quality and I love him so this is just what life will be like and that is okay. My parents had a great marriage over 40 years together until Dad passed away 2 years ago. That’s when I got it, my partner was incapable of ever being 1/10 of the honest, loyal, supportive, honourable partner that my father had been to my mother. Within an 8 month period my father passed, my ex and I finally finished and my 2 uncles passed also. When I did the emotional tally of what I willingly put up with from my ex my overwhelming feeling was humiliation. I felt ashamed I had been so pathetic and I just felt sad that all the strong males in my life were now gone too. Everyone was relieved that I finally broke it off but that was soon overtaken by this concern of “will she ever find someone?” For a while now I feel like I am drowning in a pity party. Unfortunately over the last year it has got to me. Iam 31 and starting to feel terrified I will not meet someone. (I know – so original) Don’t hate me because it is how I feel but I find myself thinking if I didn’t find that, I don’t know whether my life would feel complete or I would ever be happy – so what is the point. For a number of reasons in the last year I’ve compromised on my values and invited more…
Sophia, I totally understand you. I also always thought that I had to be the stronger person in a relationship. But I realize now that I was kidding myself and opening myself up to being used since I did not put up some boundaries.
I’m feeling you, I’m turning 30 soon and almost all of my friends are settling down and having babies.
I’m scared that my ‘slot’ for having a kid will pass, but at the same time, I won’t compromise anymore. I’d rather be happy with myself than catering to an assclown and kidding myself into believing that this is ‘the one’.
I’ve noticed a few comments on here by women who are around 30 years old who worry about missing out on children. There is still *so* much time! Better to sort one’s self out and have kids within a healthy, loving relationship than with the wrong guy–having children a few years later than your friends sounds like a small price to pay for that.
Really, you could meet a man a year from now, five years from now, fall in love, have a great relationship, and still have plenty of time for children.
Well, I just told him to go and that this relationship wasn’t something that makes me happy. He just said “I don’t know what to tell you” and acted all superior and bitchy, packed up and left while I sit here thinking ‘the poor guy’. Man, I need to snap out of it.
And now I feel bad because apparently, I still don’t trust my own judgement.
For me it’s the worst when someone just acts this aloof, I would have at least hoped for an “I’m sorry you feel this way”.
Well, it’s madly sunny here in Germany and really cold, I guess I’ll have a good cry and then go for a walk.
I feel really uncomfortable right now, but I guess I have to sit through this, since I know in my heart that I did what was good and right for me. Tomorrow (maybe even later today), I know I’ll feel better because I set some boundaries and for once, stood up for myself.
Cookie,
You could be describing my breakup with the ex MM. he showed little emotion, well, no emotion really. I didn’t embarrass myself by getting upset but yet it was deeply humiliating. He didn’t make any attempt to make me change my mind. He appeared to have no feelings whatsoever and I have felt tempted to ask him directly did you have no affection for me at all? But to be honest I am frightened that he might say no. You meant nothing to me. It has made it harder I think to get over because I feel such an idiot. Putting him on a pedestal , pumping him up etc. I find it helpful to try and focus on where I want to be in one month, three months, six months time. Comments Nat has made about short term thinking have helped. Don’t want to be obsessing about him.
Cookie, I read your description of your early family stuff, and feel so much emotion for you. I understand what you’re going through, believe me.When you’ve been asked to man up and be the strong one for many years in the family dynamic…you may think it makes you the one who can do the choosing, but as you know, it doesn’t work out like that. You end up feeling like a mini adult as a child, and miss out on the nurturing. You become resilient(on surface)
For me that expressed itself in being really independent and controlling in the form of Florencing others. I’d pick guys who needed fixed. Inverted ego when I needed to fix myself. Of course it renders you emotionally unavailable…
You said you were wired to accept other’s laying their probs on you…get rewired. You seem to be identifying all the right things, you know you need to revisit boundaries and you need to nurture you. You can make those choices right away for yourself.
It will hurt about the guy, definitely, but he wasn’t making you feel good, you assessed that, you acted. What helped for me was writing down for a wee while how I felt. When the positives came in, I felt great. I trusted my choices.
You are a young intelligent woman, with all your life in front of you, plenty of time to get the relationship you choose. Be aware that taking time out to suss out what’s going on with you, is never wasted time..it’s putting in work to make your life better.
This was another great great post.
I remember posting a status once on fakebook that said something like “I’m a background character in the film of my own life”.*
At the time I was pregnant, struggling to control an anxiety-related eating disorder (and therefore), anaemic, panicking about money/maternity leave, bereaved and over-worked and yet the EUM and the toxic friends that I was choosing to surround myself with were STILL managing to make it all about them. And the worst thing is that I let them! I didn’t ever focus the camera on myself, instead I traipsed after them, trying to capture THEIR experiences and ignoring mine completely.
Thinking back, I think that I possibly didn’t think that I deserved my own film… I wasn’t pretty/charming/interesting enough, and I was relying on the opinions of people who were so wrapped up in their own starring roles that they probably aren’t even aware that other films exist.
Nobody is going to make you the star of THEIR show (unless they’re unhealthy and unhappy with their own in some way, and then they’ll only nick your ideas and try to pass them off as their own) – the only way to make sure that you get any air-time is to give it to yourself.
I’m trying to work on that principle now… it’s not the most interesting cinematic experience just yet but I’m sure that imdb’ll love it when I’m done. And it’s MY life, lived for ME (and my son), not total undeservables.
*the only comment that I received on this status was from one of the aforementioned ‘friends’, about how she was the star of someone else’s film. Great. Thanks for that. Served me right, though
Jeez, this resonates with me so much.
With my ex MM I thought if I acted like the perfect,loving, caring, understanding, sexy woman that he wanted that he would choose me, and leave his wife for me. He future faked me by planning things that we would do (once he was with me), even said he’d think about changing aspects of his job so he’d be close to home and not travel so much, and asked me where I’d like us to live? I always made him laugh, told him how amazing and special he was, always looked great for him and gave him the biggest ego boost he’s probably ever had in his life, and yet in the end when I finished it, he didn’t really have anything to say! No “please don’t do this” or “give me more time”, nothing. He basically looked rather pathetic and sheepish, and told me that he’d always love me, and then said “I’ll go because this is awkward”.
I felt so hurt and humiliated because this guy who continuously professed his undying love for me didn’t fight for me and choose me.
Even now after 6 weeks of NC (with no effort by him to contact me), I’ll be honest when I say that part of me would still like him to even make an attempt to get in touch so as to allow me some sort of feeling of validation and less of rejection. Not that I would start seeing him again, no way.
I know I’ve got work to do on myself still the fact that I do still love him and am even thinking like this. Two weeks ago (after 4 weeks of NC) I was in a kick-ass frame of mind. I felt strong and sure about everything and good about me, and felt that he was slowing coming out of my system, and now two weeks further on I feel like I’m back a step or two?? Frustrating as hell but I know I’ve just got to look ahead and keep working at this, put me first and choose me!
xxx
I feel for you so much. You are even doing way better than me! I’m not even one week out of NC and I’ve never been able to go more than one month and that was back in October when he was in NC with me.
You will regress. This isn’t a linear process. You will feel things you think you should be over. I don’t even LIKE my MM/AC anymore. I don’t respect him and I don’t think he’s a good person and yet I STILL find myself hoping he’s at home, pining for me, planning on ways to leave his wife and CHOOSE ME ONCE AND FOR ALL. My ego still can’t fathom not being chosen. It’s ridiculous and breaks my heart over and over again.
It ain’t gonna happen. These guys are married. They are the ultimate unavailable. They aren’t even available to choose you, even if they want to, because they are MARRIED and they aren’t going to divorce, for whatever reason. Their marriages work for us, no matter how crappy we think they are and no matter how great we think ourselves.
You gotta protect youself. I went back THREE times playing this game, and nope, I never got chosen. Not even close. All that happened was I lost more and more of my identity and my self-respect.
Stay strong.
I know just where you’re coming from. I’m only two weeks out of the gate, and while I don’t have any answers yet, I want to say, “Kudos to you” for the attitude I’m seeing in your post. Good luck, Fresh Start. 🙂
ladies, i have just discovered these posts. very timely. i thought i had things under control, i was happy, people were commenting how happy i looked, i had been non contact for about 7 weeks now…then last night my ex decides to message me about ‘needing to see me please”, i wait an hour because i wasnt sure what to do, then out of sheer curiousity (my mistake) i see him. he tells me that he’s been seeing a counsellor and that he was told that it would be beneficial for him to gain forgiveness from the people he hurt. so he asks me to forgive him for being a user and a bastard amoung other things and to be the ‘better’ person and forgive him, i say yes, i do. then bad things happened. i am ashamed . he tells me he hasnt had sex since we saw each other. he becomes very agitated, and demands oral sex or he will see a prostitute. i say no, and i keep saying no, then he keeps pressuring me, then i give in. i didnt want him to see a prostitue. i have feelings for him. i told him after he blackmailed me.. then ladies, i write this now. i have been crying the whole night, i sent him numerous messages, i get no reply. this has broken me, and i have a bruise on my arm. i need help 🙁 im too ashamed to tell anyone.
Mila,
I am so sorry. That is shocking.
I think he must be actually evil. His actions were malicious, there is something wrong with him. You should talk to someone in real life, you should not be ashamed of his nastiness. But you need to protect yourself too, change your number etc.
mila
someone should sue that effin counsellor. of course your ex could be lying about that.
Stop messaging him. Don’t panic. Call your local woman’s shelter if you are desperate for someone to talk to.
I’ve been here a long time and this is, as Mymble says, one of the most evil things I’ve ever heard.
Don’t be ashamed, honey. This is a conjuring trick – they make you feel bad about what they have done wrong. I’ve been there, and there’s light at the other end. Promise.
Is there someone you can stay with?
At the very least, stop contacting him. He’s dangerous, especially when you are feeling so vulnerable.
Mila
this man IS a user an abuser and a bas-turd (make no mistake about it) and all the forgiveness and feelings and blow jobs in the world are not going to make him anything else. If you have any clue in the world about what is good for you, you will stop messaging him, block all his access to you, have not one other thing to do with him – ever again! Do not be ashamed to seek help from a professional – they will be well used to hearing about this kind of abuse; sadly, it’s not that uncommon. You must take care of yourself as a top priority and this guy is very, very bad news for you. Stay well away from him.
Hi Mila,
I am sorry this happened to you. I hope you will take the advice of the others and talk to a professional ASAP and take care to protect yourself from him. He is seriously dangerous. A professional and/or a trusted friend/family member will not judge you, nobody could under these circumstances.
This guy needs more than a counselor and a prostitute. He needs an attorney. Stay away from him.
@mila
Yes you need more help than you can get here…go see a professional or call a hot line.
STOP replying to him, period. Its okay if he sees a sexworker, you’re noT his women, remember?? We can tell you what to do but you must do it. Block his number, delete it unfriend him DO NOT CONTACT HIM there is nothing to gain anymore, you allowed him to debase you and the only way to take your power back is NO CONTACT.
You poor dear. I am so sorry to hear about what happened to you. Please don’t feel ashamed; he’s the shameful one. You’re just a woman who believed and cared about an ass who manipulated you and served his own selfish needs. Please get some help and do everything in your power to stay away from that awful man. I know it will be hard for you, because like all of us, you have a weakness for him and have a lot of emotions tied up in him no matter what we say. But sweetie, it’s the best thing for you and now it sounds like it’s not just your emotional well-being, but your physical safety that’s in jeopardy. Be careful and let us know what happens.
XO
Mila
Don’t be ashamed! You did what you did under duress.I once did something under duress because I was terrified.
Don’t contact him again.Don’t let him in your house.Change your number if it’s possible and keep your self safe.Get some help from women who have been in similar situations.
You are not responsible for what he does and if he wants to go to a prostitute,that’s his choice.
Mila,
Please don’t feel ashamed–HE is the one who should be ashamed, not you. Please don’t have any contact with this man again. He has shown you who he is. He is not a good human being and he will only do you harm. He has treated you horribly and you need to focus on taking care of yourself. Whatever he may threaten to do, it’s not your problem. He’s an adult and chooses his own actions–if he chooses to go to a prostitute, it has nothing to do with you, or whether or not you will engage with him sexually.
I’m sorry that you’re hurting, but it will get better, I promise. Just take it day by day and focus on taking care of yourself.
i must admit i did text him about 6 times within 2 days. he never replied. but i’ll be okay, i can choose to live in self pity and i really want to. but then i think theres no point dwelling on negative stuff. I really feel like hating him. i feel like i deserve to have those bad feelings towards him. i feel weak if i dont hate him, however i want to leave the pain and hurt behind and not dwell on it. thankyou ladies for caring, i appreciate it. im right back to the start now. it took me 7 weeks to be happy, so its a setback, but i can do it. i know i can. this is just a slight road bump on the way to happiness.
Your story truly touched me. Probably because I can relate to it. if it makes you feel any better, we have all been there, or close to it. Please, do not rely on your will, block your numbers and all access that he can have to you. Do what you need to do, pray, talk to a professional, meditate, anything but talk to him. He is not and will never be the answer to the peace and happiness that you want and deserve.
I had a couple days of clarity and feeling okay that ‘ I wasn’t chosen’ recently. But, I saw the recent ex ( broke up two weeks) yesterday at the beach and walked the other way. He caught up to me and on a crowded public sidewalk and apologized for not calling me back, being mean and being so cold literally overnight, then rehashed why he can’t be in this relationsip with me. This was being said as people I knew walked by. It felt so belittling. I left the conversation feeling completely disrespected and disposable. The apology and the impersonal and public way it was delivered seemed more like a guilt relief for him. He said an email was not very personal, and he just couldn’t pick up the phone. I would much rather of been able to feel what I felt yesterday in some privacy. I went home and cried the rest of the day, and night. I knew it wasn’t going to work out with him deep down, but the feeling of rejection and not being ‘good enough or not chosen’ is overwhelming at the moment. Two days ago, I was feeling hope. I told myself not to come on here and complain but I’m having a really bad day.
Jenny, you’ve been through a breakup and it’s understandable to be upset, hurt, frustrated, angry and a whole myriad of emotions. What your ex did wasn’t the most appropriate way to conduct a ‘discussion’ (read: hijack with a verbal diarrhoea pot) but it’s done. There’s a lot of things you wanted in this relationship to be in a different way. Really all you do when someone who you just blanked comes up to you in the street, is tell them that you have to go and keep walking.
When I was a child, my mother used to say “familiarity breeds contempt”. Really no idea what the frick she was telling a six year old this for but what I think applies to you is this:
“Familiarity after previously unhealthy relationships breeds a new unhealthy relationship.”
When you have given yourself time to grieve the relationship, I hope you will heed what I say next:
Take the time out that you should have taken last year. Instead you chose to start something new when the truth is, you weren’t confident enough in yourself that if he proved not to be a great match, that you’d could walk.
Stubbornness is holding tight to a course of action, way of thinking etc in spite of compelling reasons to change. You have changed a lot but you still seem to think that you should play the I Can Handle It game with what you think is a lesser shade of unavailable.
His unavailability may not have been immediately obvious but it did show itself – there was nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade and opting out. You’ve got to stop playing out your old pattern. You say you were ok with not being chosen for a couple of days – Jenny, you didn’t choose him either. You were not happy with the situation – you just didn’t finish things up by behaving like a jackass. You did not choose him – you chose who you thought he might be or become but who he was became very unsatisfactory to you. You seem to be forgetting this as if he’s got fireworks shooting out of his arse and the sun is rising and setting on him. You’re upset about not being chosen to take a booby prize. You continue to sell yourself short. He’s lucky I wasn’t there to tell him to take a long walk off a short pier.
You have every right to be upset, complain etc but when you’re ready, it’s time to own the part you can control – you – because if you don’t like what the pattern computer spits out, it’s time for you to stop keying in variations of the same programme.
Natalie, you are like an elixir. I am grateful for your comment. You have a way of seeing people, through the bullshit, even though you never met most of us. A lesser shade of unavailable, ( I had clear denial about this) seemed like a good find for me after some of my past assclowns, and his niceness felt like a gift. But, unavailable is unavailable. I tried to do things right this time by going slow, but slow stayed slow, and I feel misled about how he really felt, honestly, but I get that the big picture is that all the rights I could possibly do were not going to matter. The contradictory things he’s said to me the past couple weeks (months, actually) just don’t add up. I was doing what I perceived to be the right things on the wrong guy. Although I am sobbing even harder now and getting my keyboard all wet, what you said makes clear sense and makes me feel better. I agree that taking time out of dating is key for me. I have been approached a couple of times this past week by random men and it made me feel panicked like a caged animal. Thank you, you are a very sweet and soulful person.
Jennyic, “a lesser shade of unavailable”. I remember stating with all confidence that the last guy that I dated was not an AC and he treated me like a queen, he was soooo nice. But at the end of the day, “he was a lesser shade of unavailable”. And I was so desperate to make him the one, that I was more than willing to over look the traits in his character that made him unavailable. The lesson that I learned is that just because someone is not in your face unavailable, does not mean that I should move full steam ahead.
In terms of taking time out for your self, it has been approximately, a ten months since I broke up with my ex. Initially, I did not even notice men, I simply was not interested in dating. But, lately, I am noticing men more. A part of me feel like I want to start dating. But, I know that my confidence is not where it should be. So, I am going to take it easy, and just continue to work on me. As I replay my relationships in my head, each relationship that I entered into, I was not happy at the moment that I met the next guy. I believe that my unhappiness spirit attracted the next AC, they and other people can smell your low self esteem and vulnerable state. Slow down, just concentrate on yourself, the costs of just jumping back out there in the dating world is just too high in my estimation.
Another great post. Thanks Nat! I’ve been working so hard reading this website and many other blogs, falling off the perverbial wagon, then getting back on again just to find out this morning that my unrequited love, my EU/MM of 4+ years is having a baby with his wife. The stick was just crushed and put away for me. He didn’t tell me. I read it on his facebook page. His wife made a comment to someone who had commented on a picture. A week ago today i actually got a message from him saying “I’ll chat with you when I get back from vacation.” He had been attempting to contact me daily and sometimes I was weak and gave in to respond. Other days I was strong. He and the wife were on a vacation together this week and I had gotten up my strength to not even look at his page for a week…until today. And of course, that’s what I saw glaring on the page! My heart…and my “choose me” stick are broken. I couldn’t even hold it up to him now if I wanted. Which I don’t. I feel sick. It was just last month he was asking me (again) to send him pictures and sext!! Honestly, knowing how much of a coward he is, I can’t wait to see if he’ll contact me now that he’s back and knows that I know. I mean, I can read. If he attempts to contact me (always text or messaging), do I just start screaming or do I just block?? I let him go easily years ago when he broke it off with me when we were seeing each other legitimately and both single. So, part of me doesn’t want to be so nice this time and go quietly into the night. I do feel bad for his wife. This is horrific. Would never wish this upon anyone else. Stay away from MM even if you have a long history and believe that it couldn’t been destiny or whatever. Just stay away.
Complicated
Block everything.
You are in an extremely dire state of denial and fantasy-lala land if you think you have a right to anything here. He’s allowed to have sex and a child with his wife.
Drop it please for your own sake.
Comp,
Sadly, the only one here who will be surprised at this latest plot ‘development’ in this fantasy faux affair is you. Having babies is not exactly an unusual event in the lives of married couples. Grace is right; you actually have no right to be shouting/complaining about anything. It’s way past time you bought a one way ticket on the fast train out of la-la-land and got back to reality. You were never a choice he was going to make – he was not taking you seriously at all – not even a wee bit! He was taking you for a mug. You need to focus on the choices you have/are making and think about why you have chosen to martyr yourself and your own life for four years of nothingness with Mr Not-Even-There.
Comp,
I wish two things for you. That your counsellor is someone worth her salt and can help you to help yourself from living further in the mirage you have created around this tosser.
I am with Mymble and some of the other ladies in this, it’s not about your relationship with him. It how you need desperately to pin all your hopes on air. By this obsession, you stop yourself actively pursuing your own life? Your other relationships, your kids….you’re just about to divorce,how does your child or children feel.
You’ve posted the same story for two years now, my heart is sore for you but at the same time you block resolutely your own progress.
Secondly, that you are able to feel real empathy for this guy’s wife and his unborn child and simply man up and close the MM file for good.Sometimes, in life , we have to take the hit.We have to bear the pain because that’s rooted in reality.
Please just block and let it go. I’m in the midst of my own chaos with an MM/AC. You will lose your identity and all self-respect playing these games. It’s the hardest thing not to look and not to snoop and not to feel hurt and pain and angry. I was angry once when his wife posted about how he got her a gift unexpectantly. WELL IT’S HIS WIFE! That’s what husbands DO! This guy doesn’t belong to you.
Work on yourself. It’s easier said than done. The jackass will probably come sniffing around again to see what he can get away with. And you won’t always have anger to fuel your NC of him. I learned once the anger faded a the beginning of Jan. when I swore to myself I had had ENOUGH and was DONE FOR GOOD, I went right back to the games with my MM/AC trying to be chosen.
I feel for you so much. It’s hard to get off that ride but you will not win. Ever. No matter how long you stick around. No matter what you give.
Hi Limerence,
You’re right, I already lost my self-worth and self-respect. I had never been involved in anything like this and was married myself when the relationship started. I stupidly thought this could’ve been fate. Always been a hopeless romantic. Not anymore. I’m not one that gets angry easily, I get hurt. So it’s the rejection part that’s killing me. Especially, now that I’ve let him do it to me twice!! I don’t see him coming back sniffing around. He’s always been a coward and always will be. He’s the same man now that he was when I dated him at age 19. After all, I caught him in this lie (which he would’ve kept from me for who knows how long) when just last week he was saying “talk to you when I return from my trip.” All this time he knew she was pregnant, unless she just told him yesterday which is highly doubtful. Doesn’t matter now anyways. Weird part will be never again hearing from someone that was messaging me everyday. I also want off this ride and hopefully the work I’m doing to stay off it (not just the on-again, off-again stuff) will eventually sink into my soul. This is more painful than the loss of my parents. Thank you for the kind comments.
Complicated
the loss of an AC MM is more deep than the loss of your PARENTS? You truly need to speak to a professional at this point.
I don’t think that is very helpful to say that. The loss of the AC/MM for me feels like it’s harder than when I went through the death of my father. I don’t know if it’s because there’s so many unresolved issues tied to the affair (acting out issues I’ve had since I was a child), but it is harder for me to get on with my life right now. And the fact of the matter is, the MM/AC is still around so I have to work almost every hour right now to not engage with him in some way and it’s exhausting (I broke last night, thanks to good ole alcohol, and THIS MORNING texting him and I freaking HATE myself for it but I can’t undo it. The downside of it being lazy communication is its SO effortless to break contact).
I have my first therapy appointment today. I am excited that I’m doing this for myself.
Complicated: I know it’s hard. You’re doing better than I am in terms of NC, but I did stop facebook/twitter stalking him and his wife because that HURTS so much and I couldn’t stand that pain. Give yourself a break from that. All that is there is PAIN.
Also, I understand about not receiving texts anymore. I still look at my phone… I would get a good morning text every day and now there is nothing there. Which is GOOD, I understand that logically, but my ego and heart do not.
It’s a long, long process to put yourself back together after an affair. I’m in the beginning stages. But we will be stronger when this is over.
Limerance, Comp and others who are hurting in similar situations: BR helped me so much in many ways (and continues to help me), but one of the first light bulb moments I got from Natalie (and the related posts) was that I finally saw – with real horror! – that what I was getting from the ex EUM was CRUMBS.
Seriously, this is what you need to do/where you need to get to: You need to wake up to the fact that what you have been living off is *crumbs*.
What some of you are telling yourself is:
‘I cannot see how I can possibly live without him’.
Here’s what I’m hearing:
‘I cannot see how I can possibly live without a daily (if I’m lucky) text message from this man’
Ergo, what you’re really saying is:
I cannot see how I can possibly live without a daily crumb from this man’
Believe it or not, I know how you feel. But I came to realise that what the ex had been contributing to my life made no practical difference to me – had no benefit to me – none. None at all. So, could I live without him? I already was living without him!
You already ARE living without him! You are doing your life by yourself anyway. He is not adding anything to it! You are just clinging to a crumb and making it out to be something worth jack-shit. It’s not worth anything at all. It’s nothing. It’s a text message. it takes him ten seconds to send it, it takes you ten seconds to read it – and there’s your lot! that’s what you imagine you cannot live without. Go do something else that you like to do for the ten seconds it’d take you to read his text (aka, eat his crumb) – and the full hour it takes you to compose your carefully crafted text response! Think of something else you like to do and go do that instead.
You think he’s surviving off crumbs? Off a few text messages a day? Not on your nelly! He wants more than that. And he’s getting it.
fearless
yep. For a few months of madness my life was focused around texts from the MM. There I am, waiting for texts while:
He goes on two holidays with his wife and children
Takes his wife to hospital for an operation and brings her home
Hits the town with his wife once she recovers
Takes his daughter to her first day at school
Yeah I know all this cos I FB stalked him. Of course it does beg the question of why someone feels the need to advertise their life so much, but not my problem.
He has all this and what do I get:
SEXTS AND PORN PIX AT THREE IN THE MORNING!
We are waiting for him to choose us – he doesn’t have to choose us. He already has a full life. It’s us who are trying to dine off his crumbs.
I didn’t even want him anyway *head desk*. Ironically, though, there’s a safety net in being involved with someone you can’t actually have. I know it’s feels horrible but the crying, yearning, drama, anger and fantasizing is not as risky as genuinely putting yourself in front of a person.
All the time that I was weeping and wailing and being shocked by his antics, I pretty much knew that it was all very predictable.
Weird.
I actually just put this post on my phone. When I feel like texting or sad that he hasn’t texted, I’m going to read it again and again. It makes so much sense and is SO SIMPLE it seems so silly. Thank you for the dose of reality.
Limerence, I have come to understand that AC /EU usually start off texting you good morning everyday, “hello beautiful, have a good day”. it is part of the game to get you hooked. What made me realize that it is an important part of the game, these type of men can turn that type of attention off in a split second. And then you you are left even more hungry for them and that type of attention, especially if you were craving for it in the first place.
I am learning to tell myself, that I beautiful, so when the next AC says it, I can say thanks, but whats most important is that I say to myself, regardless of whether you say it or not. Most AC are not consistent, so eventually, all of that “good morning beautiful” texts will come to an end.
I’m totally with you on this, Complicated. Even though it was mostly through the lame daily forum of email/text, the prospect of not hearing from my “boyfriend” ever again leaves me incredibly hopeless. I think, like me, you’ve been waiting around, and had pinned your hopes on a future with your guy. Now we’re both having to come to terms with the fact that it’s not happening and we aren’t sure how to put one foot in front of the other. Correct? I read a lot of your posts from back in November today, as my situation is similar but fresh. The main difference I see is that my MM lied and fabricated a separation and divorce (the only reason we aren’t still seeing each other is his wife found out; nice), while yours was at least up front about being married. But the whole not telling you about the pregnancy thing was not cool. Did he think you’d not find out? Wouldn’t care? I know some people think you have no rights when it comes to him and while as OW, frankly we don’t, I understand that you feel he owes you more than that after all the time and love you’ve given him. I know that you, like me, were hanging on your MM’s every word and that we both seem to have inflated the sentiment behind their halfhearted gestures. I mean, how have we settled for relationships conducted via texting? Seriously. I know I feel like a chump.
Well, tomorrow is another day. But don’t FB stalk him anymore. It’s only going to be torture for you. I, for one, will never be able to erase the memory of a photo I saw on my MM’s wife’s page of them together where she referred to him as her “hubby” the day I found out he was lying to me. Pure torture. Good luck, and thanks for your posts. They’ve given me a lot of insight.
Blindsided,
Wow, our stories do sound similar! I could relate to everything you said! You are correct. It is a sad, hopeless feeling not knowing whether I’ll hear from him again (and yes, I know I shouldn’t even want to). But, I’ve put so much effort into this and collected the bread crumbs hoping to make my loaf that I actually convinced myself something good could come of this. I’ve been that blind for 4 years. 4 years. I want to scream WAKE UP COMPLICATED, YOU ARE SMART, KIND AND BEAUTIFUL!! I always thought of myself to be such a good person, and being too nice did get me into this predicament. Anyways, I was lying in bed this morning and as soon as my eyes opened, the flood of tears came along with a feeling as if I’d been punched in the stomach. I wasn’t even out of bed yet, how much better could this day get? Well, its noon here and I’m ok. The sun is shining and I’m healthy and alive. I plan to keep posting and lurking about on here haha, meeting with my counselor and reading about love addiction until it finally sinks it.
Complicated,
Your story has similarities to mine.
I have looked back through BR and I notice you cropping up over the years with the same story about the (largely fantasy) relationship with the MM. And while all this has been going on, quietly in the background, only occasionally mentioned, your marriage has broken down. All this pain, it cannot be about this man. Its as though you have magnified one insignificant detail out of huge canvas.
Do you not think that perhaps all this drama about the nothing much happening with MM is perhaps a way of escaping from the sorrow of the loss of your marriage? Even if you had fallen out of love with your husband, it is so hard breaking up a marriage, the feelings of disappointment, regret, and hurt even if you are the one who instigated the breakup. Especially if there are kids.
This is what is happening with me. After 2 months NC with the MM I am starting to really feel the much worse pain and fear of the loss of my 14 year marriage.
Sometimes, today, I feel so bleak.
My marriage, that’s what I have to pick up off the carousel and unpack and put away. Much harder, short term, than the fantasy relationship, (mine had a lot of fantasy in it too, although we did spend quite a bit of time together) but its work that has to be done or I will never move on.
Sometimes, I think the way our thoughts turn all the time to the EUM/MM/AC is almost a habit, like biting your nails, but it serves an underlying purpose of blocking more difficult thoughts about things that really matter and that require our focus and attention and action.
I think theres some kind of buddhist theory that the more we try to escape the pain of reality, with fantasies, daydreams, intoxication etc, the more pain we cause ourselves and others.
mymble
this is insightful.
Since I started talking to the man I like, I’ve been crying neearly every day. These days, thankfully, I’m smart enough to know it’s not about him.
I am mourning the life I could have had if my parents hadn’t subjected me to emotional and physical abuse, and neglect. I could have met a nice man in my 20s or 30s, I could have had better academic success, a decent career, a garden, even children. Those things I can’t have anymore. Well, maybe the garden is achievable
For sure, I can still be happy, and carve out something that is mine but there’s still a loss. I’ve only just got round to processing it because I was so relieved not to be dealing with ACs anymore, or depression and anxiety.
But I’ve gained too – wisdom, insight, compassion. Things I wouldn’t have needed so much if my life had been all rosy. For all my “take no prisoners” comments I do understand what you all are going through.
grace, I want you to know that my daughter won`t be learning destructive stuff from me because you helped me with your wisdom. That chain of bad is cut. If there is karma, and I`m sure there is you will be getting more than that garden. I also think people with rosy lives just don`t appreciate it anyway, but between the crying and trying to get my head around the past and now I still feel oddly lucky. My nose is Rudolf Red right now though.
Grace,
Yes, I think compassion is important, and the trouble with fantasies is they tend to blind you to other people’s suffering. Even, in a funny way, the MM/AC/EUM because you’re fixating so much on what you want, you forget to pay attention to what’s really going on with him.
Your comments never sound harsh or angry at all. They’re usually helpful and funny.
Mymble and Grace,
I do believe I blew this whole situation out of proportion. I’ve put more time, effort, money, my self respect into this ‘thing’ than the MM ever did. I realize I was just an ego stroke to him. Possibly a distraction from what was going on in his life. Nothing more. Even though I tried shunning his attempts to reel me in at first, I gave in. Me. It was my doing. Then he backed off. My first EUM was my alcoholic, verbally abusive father. Then it was my verbally abusive, neglectful husband. Seems I was always holding up the “choose me” stick and chasing men that would give me the validation I was good enough to want to spend time or be with. It shouldve been me working to treat myself well. But, we don’t learn this as 3 year olds in these family settings. I never wanted to use my childhood as a crutch and always thought I would persevere despite my childhood upbringing. I’ve learned through counseling, love addiction books, and this site, that sometimes it is what is because of how it was. Now I have to feel the pain instead of trying to just rush through it, do my own processing and hopefully become stronger like the other women I’ve read about here. I just hate that empty feeling I have right now.
Grace,
I feel like I’m into a new chapter of a Grace story with you having noticed your new interest in dating over the past few weeks, and now after avoiding this person you like, deciding to talk to him and get to know him a little. I don’t know if I’m exactly sorry to hear you’re crying every night – sorry to hear about your pain, of course – only, because it seems, from my distant reader’s perspective, like a bit of a thaw??
I’ve taken a lot of strength from your clarity and positivity about living alone. I also see bravery in you taking some risks around that strong position.
Whatever transpires with you, Grace, thanks for sharing your thoughts about your explorations and choices with us.
Aw thanks Magnolia
It’s not every night!
When I got the train home today the charity folk were collecting for a children’s hospice. And I thought, my life is good. It’s a cliche but some people do have it worse than me. A children’s hospice. Could any two words be sadder?
You’re right, I AM taking a risk. It IS scary. I don’t know what’s going to happen, see. I just don’t know! Eek.
Amazing Grace,
don’t cry Grace (:
You are still a young woman! You have a whole life ahead of you. Write nothing out. My dad used to say to us ‘ go out there, take life by the scruff of the neck and shake it!’. He never did that himself, sadly, but that’s what I’d like to say to you Grace. You are a fabulous woman. The world needs to know this! You have the knowledge now, you are a realist, you have the nerve and just the right amount of cynicism! And you will not shirk doing what has to be done if it needs doing. Have faith in yourself. Don’t be afraid. I for one am willing you every possible happiness – and a lovely garden, which is no small thing! (I love gardens too!). Nothing ventured and all that… no more regrets. xx
Grace
I want to add something. When I first came to BR around 3 months ago fresh out of my AC experience, I was confused/lonely/looking for answers, I used to read your comments and think “wow, when am I going to be at the same stage as Grace, she seems harsh, but very real” I can’t remember which article it was, but I was commenting about my experience and how I was feeling and what I was going through. And you told me exactly what I needed to hear. I desperately wanted to reach out to the AC that disappeared on me but you flatly told me that I wouldn’t get the answers I wanted and I was just seeking validation. That has stuck with me, and very occasionally I think, to hell with it I’m going to contact him, but I won’t because I remember you telling me it was pointless! By the way I live in a flat (quite a decent one) but long for a garden and someday, somehow I’m gonna get one! Thanks Grace 🙂
Grace,
CRY!! Feel!!! Its GOOD!!! But keep pushing forward! It’s emotions. Its scary, yes, but exciting and different and you will survive and along with the bad, and there will be, you will feel the good!!! And it is so worth it!!! And we are so excited to hear what happens next!!
Grace, how do you deal with the feelings of loss? Sometimes, I just weep for all of the years that I lost and what my life could have been. Everything that I have been reading, has said that you cant look back and you cant blame your parents, which I wont to to because my childhood was hell, but that really does not feel good.
What do you do?
Aboutme
There is a difference between blaming your parents and acknowledging what they have done and the effect that it has had on you. I think if you don’t process it, you try to work it out via crappy relationships instead. Although I’m “over it” as much as someone can be, a part of it will always be with me. I don’t mind that. It does my experience and the experience of all the abused a disservice to say “Oh just forget it and move on”. It will always be with me but I can still recover, be happy and it’s deepened me as a person.
I had a very good counsellor, a man in his 60s. At the time it was important to me to have a man in my life I could trust. May or may not work for you. I also read BR and realised that all the solutions that I thought wouldn’t work – would work. I’m reading a book at the moment called New Shoes. It’s aimed at those who have been sexually abused but it’s just as helpful to me though I wasn’t abused that way. When my counsellor said I talk like someone who has been sexually abused, I realised that physical and emotional abuse can be just as damaging. It’s not a league table.
I like the New Shoes book because every single contradictory, mixed up, self-sabotaging, avoidant, anxiety-ridden, fantasy-driven, learned helplessness, boundary busting, shame-filled, guilty thing I have felt is in there. It’s really good to know that you’re not alone and there are tried and tested solutions. It’s not an unfathomable mystery. It’s totally treatable.
I think this “don’t blame your parents” advice is both right and wrong at the same time. Of course, it’s wrong to blame your parents for your alcoholism, for your laziness or for your crappy relationships, because those are all due to your own (sometimes unconscious) choices.
On the other hand, it’s completely okay to blame one’s parents for all the crimes they committed. I used to blame MYSELF for even their most outrageous actions from the past, and that was certainly wrong and basically one of the reasons why I had all those issues in the present. When momster told me I was mentally ill, that was her fault and not mine, because she lied. When my parents abused me sexually, that was their fault and not mine (out of some “inner perversity” I believed I had). When my mother failed to teach me any practical skills, that was her fault and not my “mental illness” (= incapability of mastering basic skills as a child because I had never been taught how).
For a while, I even used statements like “don’t blame your parents” as an excuse for my own very very unhealthy thoughts and behaviors. That had to stop. Not all advice is right, and it certainly doesn’t apply to everybody in any situation. It’s up to us to pick the right advice/advisors. We have to take control. Other people should not have that power over us. We need to claim it back.
Thank you Grace. I am finally admitting that the abuse that I experience as a child really did have a effect on me. For years, I thought that, oh well it happened, I am fine, just unlucky in love. Now, I finally coming to grips to how my childhood affected my life.
I have been doing a lot of reading and will pick up the book that you mentioned. As far as a counselor, I think that it is time for me to find one. Thanks again
Wow, Grace. I’ve been rereading your posts and noticing so many similarities in our situations and feelings about them. This new post really got to me, because my own therapist told me last week that she saw many parallels between what I was saying and what women who were sexually abused as kids expressed. I have no memory of having been abused in that way, but I wonder if the fact that I grew up in a dysfunctional home with an alcoholic parent might have skewed my thinking and made me crave validation and seek chaotic relationships. Food for thought. Thanks.
Grace, your post just moved me so much. You contribute so much here and your terrific spirit shines through.
I wanted to share with you something a friend told me when I was (have been for a while) in deep grief over lost opportunities, lost time, that I won’t have a child, that I made terrible choices and all is lost.
“what is making you despairing is that you have structured your entire emotional life around an issue which you don’t need to solve
the issue is: how to be loved by your mother
but that issue is bogus. you don’t need that, and you don’t need EUM.
you want something from him, you are desperate for that thing you imagine he can give you
that feels like love and it is overwhelming, but it isn’t really love
you need to find a way to access your own real resources
and stop attempting to get them from someone else
you can get them from what you already have access to at all times and always have
Of course, even though you see this now, you’ll backslide again, but you’ll recover again. But the thing is, now the old habits are coexisting with a new level of awareness, insight, wisdom …. and the latter will slowly grow to dominate, because it is more true. The truth is more consistent with reality, it’s more satisfying, it’s more true, it gives you positive feedback because it’s connected to reality.
Ultimately the point here is to immerse yourself in truth, not as a matter of asceticism… but as a matter of truly exploring the vastness of reality, rather than staring sadly at a crayon drawing from your childhood, wondering why it doesn’t work as a blueprint for your life. Time to explore the world freshly, as it is, right here and now, vastly available and satisfying, unlike impossible and needless projects from ancient, no-longer-relevant disappointments.
Your passion for EUM has never really been about EUM, it’s been about you unconsciously trying to find someone who reminds you of your mother enough for you to attempt to rectify a childhood psychological breach. Someone popular, smart, but emotionally unavailable to you. While you imagine you love EUM for his personal qualities, the reality is, it’s not only his personal qualities, but his emotional unavailability which is key.
But that whole project is and has always been a terrible waste of time and effort. You don’t need to rectify that situation with your mother. You have to live YOUR life, or start to live it. All these years trying to rectify this breach, you’ve stopped trying to live your own life as you search for a mythical someone to rectify the breach.
Your whole life, you keep thinking, “if only I was a better daughter-or-lover then this UNAVAILABLE PERSON would forgive my transgressions and love me for real, the magic thing would happen I’ve been waiting for all my life”. But no, that’s not the case. You don’t need to be a better anything. You are like a supplicant hoping for the gods to grant you your fondest wish, you keep thinking that the gods are right and you haven’t been worthy.
These people, EUM your mother, ex-EUM — they’re not who you think they are. It isn’t and wasn’t your fault, you didn’t fail and you weren’t unworthy, and no change in your behavior would have resulted in the skies opening up for you and love and acceptance finally raining down on you, because the problem has never been you.
Live your life. If you keep waiting for one of them to love you as you should be loved, you will never start living yourself. Start living now.”
Grace, you are farther from me on the path. You ARE living now. These terrible griefs from the parents who had their own problems, they cannot stop us anymore. No one can make it up to us, but no one has to. They failed US, and we do not have to serve a life sentence for it.
much love.
thanks ixnay, that’s very encouraging.
This issue is becoming “live” again for me now that I’ve “exposed” myself (not literally) to a man. I’m feeling quite vulnerable. He’s done absolutely nothing wrong – no future faking, no charm offensive, no texts. Nada. We just chat at church. I’m wondering if he likes me at all, even though I don’t want those things and they would be a turnoff to me.
But I’m not picking up that flippin choose me stick again. It’s officially retired.
In the past, the flashpoint for me, which at least I’m aware of now, is when they rejected me, then I would pick up that stick and start a campaign to make them choose me. I was very good at it. What a misuse of talent!
Thank God that I met my “match” – the man who would NEVER EVER choose one woman when he could have his pick of so many. I had to give up and the world didn’t end. Best thing that happened to me.
Yeah, my friend’s words i pasted in reference to our *old* patterns, not this new situation you’re in. But it’s about why we developed a choose-me stick in the first place. Mine is so keyed to my family of origin it’s textbook.
It is a misuse of talent and energy, yes.
Hi Grace
I am about where you are now too, processing all the hurt, all the loss perpetrated by my upbringing which of course, follows me like a ghost through my entire life. I find I am crying all the time too and I just wanted to share that w/you. I can only offer my support and show of solidarity. I’m really sorry I can’t make it better for all of us.
Mymble
I didn’t realise your situation was so similar to mine.
What you have wrote is so true.
Is it possible to go back to the marriage if that’s what you want ?
In my case,I realised that although my ex husband was my best friend I wasn’t deeply emotionally attached to him.If I went back it would be because I was lonely and he would be the fall back guy.I haven’t felt the loss for the marriage even though it was a good one.The nasty words he has used have helped me with that decision.
I feel authentic now and I wonder if I really want a relationship at all.
Hugs x
Tanzanite,
Thanks. The situation with my husband is much how you
describe yours. He has begged for us to stay together. He is a good – very good father to our children, and in some ways a good husband, (although at a deeper level I feel that he is of poor character and inclined to be a liar) but for many years our marriage has been a sham (if you know what I mean). I can’t explain all the issues here – if I started i would never stop -but I feel that if I don’t end it will have failed myself. I feel buried alive. Yet, if I do end it
I will be inflicting a lot of damage on him. (and hurting our kids). My mind goes round and round in circles with it. Much more so now that the silly escapade with the MM is over.
I am glad for you that you feel at peace with the way things have worked out for you.
Mymble
If you ever want to talk about it I don’t mind listening.I am on face book.I will never tell you what to do though,we have to come to our own conclusions.
I think people leave their marriages very easily without realising if they will be any better off in the next situation ( me included ).I am sad because of what happened over the last few years and like you,I can’t help wondering what my true path was / is .
x
That is a kind offer, but how would I find you on FB?
Complicated
I agree with the ladies that have mentioned the fact he was a married man, and there isn’t a woman on here who doesn’t know the pain of being lied to.These men are leading double lives.Even if he chose you,all you have is a man who can’t be trusted.
I have been in a similar situation and knowing he had a baby which he must have conceived whilst he was in a so called relationship with me was the final straw.I recognised that the baby was innocent and being with his wife and baby is the “greater good “.
You can now get to know yourself and find out why you thought the MM was such a good catch.Don’t be too hard on yourself while you are in pain .When the pain has gone or is not so raw you will see the situation for what it is.
Take care x
Hi ladies,
I was feeling a little better tonight after reading the posts on a different article, but now I’m feeling despondent. It just feels like this pain is never going away. The MM I was involved with had lied to me about being separated/on the verge of divorce, but just dropped me completely when his wife found a bunch of emails we’d exchanged. I went on her FB page and saw a photo of them together while he’d been sending me emails fabricating a “business trip” he was on. We had a LDR and he managed me by text/email, so I never really knew what he was up to.
I feel like I’m withering away. I’ve wasted 16 months on this man I planned to share the rest of my life with. I can’t get my head around the fact that he kept promising me the moon and stars and keeping me on the line when he had no intention of following through. Who does that???
I have a very messed up relationship history where I’ve been the EUW, and I saw this relationship as my turning point, where I could put someone else first, be true to him, love him through thick and thin, etc. I know you’ll say I need to find a way to love myself, but I just have no idea how to go about that or where to even begin. I’ve jumped from relationship to relationship since I was 17 (I’m 37 now), and I’ve never been alone. Literally. Never.
I hate that I have no control over the situation, and keep trying to rationalize why he chose her over me when he said they’d never reconcile and I was his “passion, joy, and future.” Blech. But what’s so sad is she had him forward me the letter he wrote to her detailing why he chose her, so I know. I can’t stop replaying it in my memory and it’s killing me. What a jerk. The least he could’ve done is told her no, he wouldn’t send it to me since he’d been lying to me the whole time about being separated for years. But he wanted to cover his own rear and didn’t mind if I was a casualty. This from the guy who kept telling me I was his soul mate. I would really appreciate any encouragement you can offer. Thanks in advance.
blindsided
Who does that? Married men do that.
I get that he lied to you but, before the 16 months was up, did you not have an inkling that not all was right? When the relationship is mostly email/texts, it’s not a proper relationship whether or not he’s separated.
I’m not saying this so you can kick yourself some more but so you know you’re not as powerless as you think. Get your instincts in tune and you can completely avoid 90% of these numpties. Of the 10% that might get through Stage One Filter, most of those will reveal themselves within six months or less. The key is not to make crumbs into a buttered loaf or to cling on when you know it’s not working.
I would love to be 37 again and know what I know now. Onwards!
PS And no more separated men. There are enough men out there who are properly divorced or single. Sure, there are exceptions but ex-FBGs must avoid catering to their old pattern. For me, I must avoid the separated and the ex-holics. Really, is that such a huge sacrifice? I think not.
And they all spin this soulmates, I will love you always. I want to be a part of your life crap. I’ve had ten page letters telling me how wonderful I am. Then he couldn’t even show up for pizza after we had been “friends” for over fifteen years.
Action is where it’s at.
He couldn’t even show up for pizza? Lol. Thanks for injecting some levity into my morning, grace. I needed that, and I really appreciate your response. No more separated men!
I’m so with you, Grace, regarding the banishment of separated men from our lives. It was so easy to think that separated = completely done with his marriage. Um… not so much. I’m still trying to recover from a lengthy relationship with a separated guy and it’s more painful than any relationship ending I’ve ever experienced.
In some ways, the “choose me” stick is even worse when he’s finally divorced… and doesn’t choose. Literally. Wouldn’t choose to be with me (despite all the dipshit promises when he was in the depths of divorce hell) and wouldn’t choose to be without me either. Let the AC games begin!
Regarding your comment about “soul mates”, I’m reminded of something Big said to Carrie on Sex in the City. He was talking about a whirlwind romance/marriage between two acquaintances of Carrie. He said, “Did they actually use the word soulmate?” Carrie replied in the affirmative, to which Big responded, “Then I give it 3 months tops.”
My whole family refers to my guy as “Mr. Big” and keeps telling me I’m Carrie. I throw away the nice men and clamor after the EUMs. Strangers tell me I even look like her and it makes me cringe because I can’t help but feel like Carrie=dysfunction=unhappy relationship=me
I’m sort of laughing as I type this, but really, it’s just screwed up and sad.
Blindsided,
You are not alone. We are here for you and going through the same things. They are bad, cowardly, selfish, using men. We happened to get caught up in their webs. We are not bad people for wanting to give and receive love.
It will and does get better. Be patient.
As someone once said here, take all the energy you focus on him and put it on yourself. Give yourself the same love you attempted to give him. It’s a process but it works. You deserve inner peace and happiness.
Forget him as much as you can. He is a mirage.
Thank you so much. Just knowing a lot of you have experienced this helps me, and your saying you’re here for me is like a balm. A mirage. I’ll keep repeating that to myself. Thanks so much.
Hi Complicated,
Well good god damn! I think I’m seeing a giant flame on the horizon as we all pitch our “Chose Me Sticks” into the fire, thanks to Natalie and BR. I know you are hurting and sad. I thought about you and the MM with the newly impregnated wife all day. Your comment was so real and I could feel your hurt. It re-triggered that moment of reality for me when I could no longer hide in denial. It hurts. Your comment brought back everysinglething Natalie has said about cheating MM’s. They lie to their wife, the OW, and everybody else, there’s no such thing as an honest cheat,their marriages work for them which is why they don’t leave etc. But here’s the thing that so relates to Natalie’s post and what I experienced as a former OW: While I was in the role of the OW, I clearly didn’t prioritize myself but I held him accountable for not prioritizing me. I had this twisted view that if HE prioritized ME, I’d be number one. It’s taken me some time to realize that only I am responsible for prioritizing me as number one. I knew it within a few weeks (thus the RunnergirlNO1) but it’s taken more time to make my words match my actions. Still trying.
Reality was horrific for me too. Sounds like your EXMM is doing things a husband should be doing, including having sex with his wife, having babies with his wife, and going on vacation with his wife. He gets to do that cos he’s married to his wife. The only problem…he’s got something else going on the side. Don’t be the side dish. You are right about staying away from MM’s. Just a nightmare on Elm Street. Plant the “I Choose Me Stick” in your front yard. F**K MM’s, not literally, of course.
Hi runnergirlno1!
Good to hear from you. I definitely didn’t prioritize myself and he certainly didn’t prioritize me either. I am hurt, hurting badly actually. Even though I feel like I have no right to hurt over something I never lost because it was never mine to begin with, I hurt. Maybe if this had been reality instead of my fantasy, it would be easier to get over. I don’t know. I had moments (small ones) with him that were reality, but I made those small realities into a BIG fantasy. I’ve been hiding in denial too.
Right at this moment, I’m being eaten up inside with questions that I want to ask him. Questions that would require me to contact him. “Was she pregnant while you were asking me for dirty pics, was she pregnant while you were trying to get me to sext, if I we’re such a “close friend” (that’s how he referred to me), then why didn’t you feel the need to share this exciting news with me? How could he just sleep with me then decide to treat me as what you call a “close friend”? I mean, what is it that you consider me…A)The other woman B) Friend with Benefits C)The woman you don’t want to marry and be with, just the one you want to sleep with, sext and exchange dirty pics with or D) A woman you ended up loving but the timing sucks and this character you portray is your coping mechanism?”
I want to vomit just thinking about all this. My counselor will be getting an earful tomorrow. I won’t be contacting him to ask these questions, but I’d really like to know the answers. I realize having the answers (even though I couldn’t trust the validity) wouldn’t change anything. He’s still married. Wife is pregnant. I’m not even a priority. Never have been, never will be. See, the reality of the situation is there for me, I just have to get it to resonate with my emotions. I want to cry, shout, stomp and get him out of my system. Thanks for listening.
happy to say i am past this point described in the post. I do now start to take a step back and watch how my reactions in these situations are. Am having a good look now, if the goods on offer are the ones i want. If i buy fruit i would also look if its right and not mouldy or squishy 😉
Hi Grace,
I know I have no chance with this man especially now. Especially knowing he’s been lying to me about his wife being pregnant for who knows how long. My divorce was final last month and the stupid idea I had that the MM and I would somehow end up together is gone. *Red flag* I should’ve seen…he’s been lying to her, why wouldn’t he also be lying to me. However, we all have a right to be treated with respect. No matter how broken we are or how many mistakes we make. Just my opinion though. The part that bothers me is he kept coming back to me when I’d break it off saying “I can’t believe you don’t want to stay friends, why won’t you talk to me, etc.” In my opinion, close friends (especially when married) don’t sleep together, want to sext and exchange dirty pictures, and of course, close friends tell each other when they’re expecting a baby. To say the least, this relationship or whatever it was, cost me everything. I was so hell bent to hold up that “choose me” stick that I did everything I could to get him to choose me. It didn’t work. I’ve recently started going to several SLAA meetings in addition to continue seeing a counselor working to get this man out of my head and my life. Now, I feel like Im right back where I started after reading that one comment today. It’s my fault. I should’ve never gotten involved with him to start with. I’m not perfect, but I’m working so hard to get out of this horrible situation. It ruined my life and I can only blame myself. Since I couldn’t bring myself to block him from FB, I tried to stay off the site, but would relapse from time to time. Today was one of those days. To be honest, I did have expectations…expectations that he would treat me with the same decency and kindness I treated him with. I know, it’s stupid. Hoping he would start start making the same effort for me that I’d made for him. I had always been his Fallback Girl. Now, I know what rock bottom feels like. He’s now rejected me twice. Once when we were single and dating legitimately and now. This time hurts alot worse because more was at stake. Trying to look at any brightside I can find, at least there’s no where to go from here but up. Just wish it didn’t hurt so much.
Comp,
“However, we all have a right to be treated with respect.”
Yes we do. And to treat ourselves with respect, first and foremost.
I have learned (through BR – thank you!) that we can hardly expect to get respect from what we already know is a very unlikely source. A man who offers you nothing but text messages and asks for dirty sext pics is not a man who wants you or respects you. Quite the reverse.
But more to the point here – I have learned that the the person in my life who must, no matter what, treat me with respect is *me*. We cannot expect to get respect from a man (or anyone) when he sees quite clearly that we have no respect for ourselves. We show people how to treat us; we show them what we are worth. If we show a man we think we are worth jack-shit, he will believe us. Why would he not?
Fearless and Grace,
I’d love your feedback on how I begin to start to even go about putting myself first and respecting myself? I’m sure it would be helpful to others too. I feel that I’ve lost so much of my self worth and respect by being with a MM that I don’t even know where to go from here. Love your comment Fearless…”We show people how to treat us; we show them what we are worth.”
Comp, start respecting yourself by first booting this using asshole out of your life – or out of your mobile phone and social networking. Start by choosing you. Who else is going to do this, if you don’t?
Complicated
Respect may not be what you think it is. The respectful thing for him to do is NOT be your close friend and NOT share the personal details of his marriage with you. The respectful thing for him to do is, in fact, to cut you off. I’m not sure he respects you enough to do that, so it’s up to you to respect yourself and cut HIM off.
Respect isn’t always cuddly, sometimes you have to do the hard thing and boot someone out of your life. It’s for the greater good.
It’s not about being “nice”. Nice is what got you into this mess.
Decency and kindness we all deserve. But not from someone else’s husband.
Hi Complicated,
I’m sorry to hear about what is going on. Fantasy relationships are right up there on the same level of damage/impact as domestic violence/abuse. This guy is totally taking advantage – and he TOTALLY knows it too. How could he not know? But you are also caught in the fantasy too. I’ve been in fantasy relationships before (as much as I wish I’d like to say I was all prim and perfect) and they are extremely hard to let go of because they’re not really there *anyway*.
There’s usually a source problem deep down somewhere that is driving this- it might be fear, it might be not knowing how LTRs work or what to do, it might be a combination – this latest fantasy is probably just the latest surface manifestation of what is a much larger, longer term issue. If it is not dealt with, it is likely to re-appear in another form later – different person, same situation.
Other posters are right – his wife has a LEGAL claim over him, and by what you have said, he is an assclown. This may be very painful to let go, but it must be done. You don’t even have to say or announce anything.
I’d treat this the same way as a break up. I’d humbly suggest a psycologist to see (not a counsellor, but a psych), sign up for NMLs No Contact Rule Mail, block him on Facebook, delete all his messages and contact details from his phone (if you can’t do this, get a trusted friend to delete while you watch), block his phone number, e-mails and anything else. You might feel good for a day or two but the pain will then hit you, so be prepared. Don’t do this on your own – have a psych to help you. Tell them you’ve had a break up, but there’s a larger pattern and go from there.
A total dating and relationship ban for a while may also be a good idea. I’ve been there (not with a married person, but hey the other person was partnered and I was still trying!), so don’t fret. Don’t blame yourself too – forgive yourself, you have a license to make mistakes.
The part that bothers me is he kept coming back to me when I’d break it off saying “I can’t believe you don’t want to stay friends, why won’t you talk to me, etc.” In my opinion, close friends (especially when married) don’t sleep together, want to sext and exchange dirty pictures, and of course, close friends tell each other when they’re expecting a baby.
I’ve been through something similar – it confused the hell out of me as to whether they were a friend or not (‘ do you break up with a friend?), what label the relationship was – there just are not the words. Too busy looking at solving the puzzle pieces as a distraction.
You need to have a guide for your life that only you can write. My guide says this: Friends and Sex do not mix. If they’re a friend, they are not trying to sleep with you. If they want something more, they need to stop being a friend and ask for a date so I can determine whether they (and I) have capacity for something serious. Obviously he has ZERO capacity because he is Married.
THIS GUY IS NOT YOUR FRIEND, THEY ARE A SMILEY PARASITE, A MOLE, A WOLF IN SHEEP CLOTHING, A SMILING ASSASSIN ASSCLOWN. The SMILEY ASSCLOWNS are one of the hardest to detect but also the MOST DANGEROUS after Abusers.
Visualise the deal- what have you signed up to and is it a good deal?
———————–
Married Assclown – Terms and Conditions
———————–
* You agree to hand over your self respect, self-identity
* You agree to keep waiting forever
* We will have no title
* You will be in competition with my wife
* You will only be able to see me when a position in restricted slot opens up
* We will not live together
* Most communication will be done by distance
* I will have access to your body on demand for free
* I will keep you on a rollercoaster while I get on with my life
and have babies etc
* I will lie to you by omission or avoidance techniques
_________ Signed
^^^ This is not a good deal! Don’t sign it, rip it up and burn it!
You sent me a similar “contract” post about a week ago and I taped it up to read repeatedly, but I like this one even better! Thank you, thank you! It’s funny, but in such a dark way because it’s been my life for over a year, even though I didn’t realize it until recently.
I remember my first “affair” with an attached man. I was still a teenager and grieving my first love. At this point, this guy, 15 years my senior, started pursuing me. He “failed” to tell me he was in a long-distance-relationship. When somebody else told me he was attached, I confronted him, but kept seeing him anyway.
Anyway, I dumped him as soon as I moved away from my parents for college. I knew I didn’t want such a “relationshit” anymore, but I still believed I didn’t deserve any better. Afterwards, I dated many guys who weren’t attached but toxic in other ways. Whenever I dumped one of them, I told myself: I DON’T WANT THIS, but it’s all I can have. What is wrong with me? Why am I not happy with the toxic stuff that’s on offer?
I’m sure better things were on offer even back then, but as a child, all relationships I experienced personally were toxic. As a consequence, I tuned out any good relationships I witnessed between other people, because I knew I couldn’t have anything like that with my own parents (or my toxic grandparents and school bullies). It was an act of self-protection.
This contact sounds exactly right! Sadly, I read it, signed it with a heart and xoxoxo’s, and handed it back to him with a big ole’ smile on my face last time (and also $500 to help it get through the month because his wife doesn’t understand and they don’t share money and poor guy is all alone. This was all in the name of WINNING btw, I frankly didn’t care much at this point about his BS claims). I am the one who “ended” it again (third times a charm????) but DAMN IT, it hurts that I let myself go back to try to be chosen YET AGAIN.
Wow, this is amazing. I basically had this contract signed on the dotted line. It’s not a good deal. It’s not a deal I’d want my best friend to take. So why can’t I get it through my head this isn’t something I should want to be in either? I go back and forth between making excuses for him and seeing the real person he is. A really bad person. I’m a good person and don’t deserve this and should want more for myself. Have.To.Move.Forward.
comp,
“I go back and forth between making excuses for him and seeing the real person he is.”
We can all relate to that. I still have days when I find myself wondering if my thoughts about him’ are too harsh! I suffered terrible angst for the longest time trying to figure out just how “bad” he is and if I had him figured out yet! Now, I just don’t think it matters. What I do know is that he is not the man I thought or hoped he was and that his feelings for me were not what I wanted them to be. It seems ridiculous to me now that I could ever have thought/imagined that he was serious (for want of a better word) about me. He plainly wasn’t anything remotely like it!
What helps me now is not to see it as a ‘good guy’ or ‘bad guy’ scenario. I see it more now as simply a ‘very bad situation’ – for me! And I am now just shocked not at his behaviour but at my own denial and avoidance and treating myself as ‘less than’ and not even fully realising that this is what I was doing.
Now I just try to see what is/was actually there – what I was actually getting from it. And I see nothing. It’s hard to get your head around a feeling of terrible loss over what amounts to ‘nothing’. You cannot lose this man – only your hopes and fantasy of what coulda, woulda, shoulda been – if only he had given a shit! (oh, and been a decent bloke, oh, and not married!)
We need to accept that whatever it is we think we want from these relationshits – the EUM/MM does not want it. He is not with-holding it – he is not fighting it! We are simply not what he wants. Full stop. That is the reality we are faced with and it is painful but the sooner we face it the sooner we can get to acceptance. In many ways it’s a relief to stop trying to force someone to want you when they simply don’t. It’s like realising you can actually stop banging your head off this brick wall! The pain can stop – you just need to choose to stop banging your head off the wall.
Fearless, your comment sums up where I’m at right now many months down the NC road. I can see how I kept waving the Choose Me Stick and he was choosing me…not in the way I wanted, however. He chose me on his own terms as long as I played the loving doormat, always up to stroke his ego. That’s been the most difficult thing to get my head around, what amounts to nothing. How do you get your head around nothing? At one point when I broke NC and responded to him, he went on and on how he isn’t trying to forget me. I was stunned because I was trying so hard to forget him. He wasn’t with-holding it, he wasn’t fighting it because he had everything he wanted, a wife and a mistress. We ended up wanting very different outcomes and it ended up in a bad situation for me stuck holding the choose me stick.
Gotta share this. It’s going to rain tomorrow and I needed a new BBQ cover so I bought one I thought looked right. I spent about 15 mins trying to get it to fit. It didn’t fit no matter which way I tried, upside down, right side up, and side ways. After about 10 mins, I realized it didn’t fit but I kept trying for another 5 mins. Then I faced the sad fact, it didn’t fit. I brought back to the store and exchanged it for one that does fit. I wish it would have only taken 15 minutes for me to realize that a MM doesn’t fit no matter how I tried waving the choose me stick, upside down, right side up, and side-ways. It was a bit ironic because we loved BBQing. It didn’t fit. That’s it!
Hi Comp,
“The part that bothers me is he kept coming back to me when I’d break it off saying “I can’t believe you don’t want to stay friends, why won’t you talk to me, etc.”
The bottom line is that you have “more-than-friends” feelings for him (along with the fact that he’s married; that goes without saying).
His wanting to stay friends has more to do with keeping you on tap when he wants an ego massage, sex with someone outside his marriage and to convince himself he’s not the shit he’s been.
I know you’re feeling hurt and addicted, but as you admit being with him has “cost you everything,” use all your will power, strength and sense of self to cut him out of your life. Permanently. I picture the skull and cross bones when I think of this man. He’s poison. Fight for your life. Do it now.
Thanks Blueberry Girl,
I love your comments btw. Everything you said was true. I’m trying to fight. Somedays are easier than others though. Just feel like a stupid fool for ending up as the OW to someone who could either take or leave me…not to someone who actually gave a damn. How could I not have seen up front that he was such a horrible human being. I did everything to get him to “choose me”. All he had to do was give crumbs, which I gladly accepted. Actually, can’t believe I ended up being an OW at all. It’s done and now I’m left to pick up the pieces to something I broke myself…me. I hate this.
I choose ME. I choose ME over crumbs, being treated as an option, and all the other bs that some dish out. And yes it’s being selfish. And it’s okay. It’s OK to be selfish in the name of self preservation. I’ve finally reached this revelation and it feels GOOD. I refuse to be anyone’s doormat or option any longer. I choose ME. Protecting my health and sanity is my right. Thank you Natalie and BR peeps for helping me realize this. *Hugs*
IchooseMe
I concur. Except that I do not think it is selfish at all – not one bit selfish to refuse to be a doormat or an option or treated as ‘less than deserving’. It may be self-preservation but more than that, it is essential in order to live a ‘good’ life and also be good to others. We do no-one any favours by allowing them or others to treat us badly.
My first lesson on BR was if choosing him means you cannot choose you, then choose you – every time. I had never thought of my relationships that way before and that one pearl of wisdom has changed my outlook on many areas of my life. The only person we should be waving a ‘choose ME!’ stick at is ourselves – never again will I wave it about at anyone else. Thanks for BR, Natalie.
Fearless
I am having a fit. I am choosing me but I’m fit to be tied that after all I did for him, he didn’t choose me. That is the bottom line, I gotta choose me and not leave it up to a “him”. Oh, you all and Natalie are so spot on. Frig, rummus frumms, damn, my fate is up to me? I gotta own up to the plate? I want to continue to blame the lying cheating bastard MM. I’ve probably never kicked and screamed so hard as having to face choosing me. Okay. Tomorrow is a new day. I’ll breathe and refrain from kicking his married asrse around the track. Breathe runner, breathe. Sigh!
Runner girl,
You acted in accordance with your values to treat him well. You just chose the wrong person to channel your gracious energy.
I know. It’s a blow when you realize it’s all on you. I’ve gotten myself into more pickles because I’ve ignored obvious signs. Some of them flashing neon, “The Misery Motel.” In retrospect, I’m glad I wasn’t chosen by some of the men I’ve set my sights on. Yikes.
RunnergirlNo.1
choosing to wait for this guy to choose you – choosing this guy – is turning your back on yourself, is letting yourself down, is telling yourself every day of your life that you don’t think you’re good enough for better than this. Why would we treat ourselves this way? Why would we turn our backs on the one person in the world that we should be able to trust to look out for our best interests – ourselves?
It’s like saying to these guys “okay, here’s the problem: I don’t think I am worthy or deserving of your time, your consideration, your care, your respect, your honesty, your fidelity, your presence – even, a phone call even, your love, perchance… I don’t think I am worth any of these things from you – but gonna give me them anyway? I’ll wait. And while I’m waiting and hoping and asking to be chosen I’ll keep on reminding you of what I believe – that I am not worthy or deserving of your love, care or respect. So, when am I getting it? Anytime soon?
I liked Nat’s comment recently to runnergirl (hope she is doing okay!): would you rather be the one that got away or the one that wouldn’t go away?
Fearless, I just love your posts. Thank you for being able to deliver a slap across the face with infectious humor. That whole paragraph about what we’re basically communicating to these guys was so spot on. I can actually hear myself saying it. I loved the, “So when am I getting it? Anytime soon?” part. I shouldn’t, but I so wish he was reading that and knowing that’s the low to which our situation had descended. But you know what? He already knows it, I’m sure. It’s me to which it was news.
I know this Fearless and I’d never, ever, ever go back thanks to you all and BR. I see how clearly I was saying one thing (I want a committed relationship) and doing another getting involved with a MM which is a complete contradiction. My actions did not match words, no matter how I worded it. Thank you Blueberry and Fearless, I checked into the “Misery Motel” and paid dearly for every night. No way in hell I was going to get anything other that what I signed up for cos I signed up for disrespect, dishonesty, and infidelity. Choose Me?
I guess it’s still me I’m angry with. Still working through the grief and I’m eternally grateful for BR and all of you.
Thank god and BR I had the wherewithall to be the one that went away.
This is a really great post!
I wish I would have read something like this as a teenager. It would have saved me from alot of heart ache and pain.
Thank You!
@ grace and stephanie from the last post that I was not able to reply to…i heart you guys too:)….and as far as respect and everyone deserving respect I have to be honest I dont agree: you deserve respect only when you are willing to give it…sleeping with an MM is not respectful to you NOR his wife who is another woman with feelings and vulnerability too…so no offense but get real: unless you are giving respect you have no right to complain about not getting it..right?
I need to put down my chosen stick. I always want my ex to choose me over his new girlfriend the one he cheated on me with by the way. He even came crawling back to me and I foolishly thought he wanted me back but nope he just wanted an ego stroke and a shag. He still contacts me even though he has a girlfriend! I am tired of the choose me stick and I need to put it down once and for all because I am tired of his games! He really isn’t anything special and me hoping he will choose me is a total waste of space. Thanks for this post!
Hi Ollie! The same thing happened to me! I “lost” my EUM few months ago only for him to crawl back saying that he made a mistake. When I made sure he understands that I would not sleep with him and don’t trust him, he turned around and went again back to his girlfriend.
Now, why am I upset to see that she accepted him back? ( she obviously doesn’t read BR lol)
I think we all want to be the chosen one. The one who is picked out of all the others, it’s what we grow up doing all our lives. We want dad or mom to choose us to do something special, we want to be chosen as the teacher’s pet, we want the popular kids to include you in their group. We want to be chosen for the job. With men whom you know are dating you and others you feel a certain amount of accomplishment when you think they have chosen you to be there one and hopefully only. I remember lying in bed with one AC who proclaimed, you’re not my girl yet, because I haven’t defined our relationship. I thought to myself, wow do I want to continue laying in your bed now, what am I doing? We put up with the disrespect because we hope that when we are chosen things will be better. We have to define what we want out of a relationship so we are not disappointed when not chosen, or if it takes so long to feel chosen. Many times because they don’t have to choose they won’t, If were in need of validation in the relationship we are in it for the wrong reasons. I’ve decided that if I want to continue to date and if I choose to become sexual that it’s because I want to not because I want to be chosen.
I think we all want to be the chosen one. The one who is picked out of all the others, it’s what we grow up doing all our lives. We want dad or mom to choose us to do something special, we want to be chosen as the teacher’s pet, we want the popular kids to include you in their group. We want to be chosen for the job. With men whom you know are dating you and others you feel a certain amount of accomplishment when you think they have chosen you to be there one and hopefully only. I remember lying in bed with one AC who proclaimed, you’re not my girl yet, because I haven’t defined our relationship. I thought to myself, wow do I want to continue laying in your bed now, what am I doing? We put up with the disrespect because we hope that when we are chosen things will be better. We have to define what we want out of a relationship, so we are not disappointed when not chosen. If it takes a long time many times it’s because they don’t have to choose, because they can string you along. If we are in need of validation in our relationship we are in it for the wrong reasons. I’ve decided that if I want to continue to date and if I choose to become sexual it’s because I want to not because I want to be chosen.
This is a wonderful post Natalie which summarises the waiting, wishing and stalled living that so many of us have experienced once we’ve lost sight of our own value.
This blog is a daily reminder that we ARE our thoughts. If predominantly we think we aren’t good enough, we end up with someone who treats us as such. It’s a false thought but the obsession with being chosen and therefore validated crowds out and suffocates all others. Before we know it, we are editing ourselves in an attempt that something will strike a chord with ‘the one’ and they will decide that we have finally found the right combination of characteristics and behaviours to suit them. It seems a lot of us have done it and it’s so sad.
The analogy of being willing to be a passenger on a journey, without even really addressing where you’re being taken or in what manner, is perfect and it’s totally empowering exploring escaping this ‘less than’ image of yourself. Personally, I find it useful to imagine saying ‘stop the car please’ and simply opening the door, getting out and walking away. I wouldn’t even say slam the door as I think typically, this kind of dramatic behaviour and attention seeking is the type of negative attention that an EUM lives off.
I really really want all the ladies (and gents?) on here to imagine asking the driver to STOP the car and then to just calmly get out. This is the emotional equivalent of a crooked taxi driver who takes you all around the houses on a trip to nowhere, costs you a whole lot of money and smells of cigarette ash and kebabs. It’s far more pleasant to walk and at least that way you control where you’re going.
Spot on Natalie!
Athena
I like this analogy but it also applies when you’re not being driven around by a taxi driver. Maybe the two of you just aren’t compatible, or want different things (children can be a dealbreaker). It’s okay to walk away from that too. Sure, it hurts but it’s better to make a decision and deal with it than bury your head in the sand hoping that the problem will go away.
It’s scary to me that I have to do more than just be chosen and cling on for dear life. But it’s empowering too and the only to get what’s truly best for me (rather than a few short-term thrills).
Grace
Very true. Some ‘taxis’ are perfectly pleasant but just won’t amount to what we’re looking for or be heading where we want to go. In that scenario, hopefully we can eventually exit with gratitude, dignity and fond memories (meaning either they haven’t plastered the cab with false advertising or we’ve had the wherewithall to spot it!!). Ok I’m done torturing this analogy to death!
It’s so important that we get to grips with what we want (and don’t want). I agree. it’s scary developing the habit of thinking about what you want and holding THEM up to that barometer rather than engaging with this battle to be chosen based on what we think THEY want. Every single one of us has so much to offer – even if we struggle to believe that thought sometimes.
Thanks NML
Of all your posts that I’ve bookmarked, this one resonates the most with me. I’ve got my worklife sorted, but in many ways, in my personal life (not just my relationships), I’m just going along for the ride.
I’ve written on my arm:
Choose, instead of letting life choose you.
And about my ex:
I love the idea of what you could become more than I love me.
Please write more about this.
Thanx
toby
I am *so* confused right now, and any insight would be appreciated. For just over 2 months I dated a man whom I’d met nearly a year ago. From the get go, we seemed to be just what each other wanted – both good communicators, many other common traits….he even came on strong, writing birthday cards that he was looking forward to “many years” with me, I was so loving and supportive and he was so lucky – we had a lot of fun and chemistry -no disagreements yet. He told me he loved me and promptly told me and his friends he was in a relationship. Introduced me to his boss, etc., etc. – appeared the perfect, emotionally available man – a breath of fresh air after the last EUM crazy guy I was with. He planned to take me to this restaurant and on that hike, told me I was the woman of his dreams, just blah blah blah. Because of our chemistry and who he appeared to be, I ate it up. I thought he was my Prince at last.
So – two weeks ago his mom passed away with cancer – a traumatic event to him. Upon coming back from his trip he was totally different to me. I understand some grief….of course….or articulation of needing space, etc. None of that was given – BUT – upon coming back, he planned his Friday night going out dancing with a guy friend (we’d always been together weekend nights) and wine tasting with a woman friend – no advance notice to me. Instead of making it out, he had a random attack on him by a guy in the street, and wound up in the ER. He called me late that night, under influence of vicaden, to tell me about the accident, then dropped the bomb that he didn’t know if he wanted me for a girlfriend any more. No explanation, he was “hurting too much” to explain. I was shocked and unable to sleep. He called last night, and we were going to arrange a face-to-face meeting to discuss all this. I suggested next Friday or Saturday night, and he said, “I will have to check my schedule and see what is happening.” ???
So – I am so hurt. I opened myself to him and trusted him. I’m having trouble reading this. Was he a future faker? Is he exhibiting an irrational reaction to grief? (Though my own father died, and I didn’t feel like ditching over it.) My best friend calls “red flag” for when he called last night he did not apologize for or explain his words last Friday – rather talked to me as though I were a sister.
SO…
That sounds somewhat similar to my ‘ex’ (inverted commas because for nearly 2 years he told me he loved me and wanted to marry me but..not yet). I don’t understand that kind of behavior myself where they go into overdrive making it seem like everything is great only to blindside you with sudden disinterest. Ive come to the conclusion that they do not want a normal adult relationship, but to have someone who is there when they want it and who they can send away when it suits them to do that. Its callous and not very emotionally mature.
Broadsided,
Hi, if this guy hadn’t been so recently bereaved… I would say head for the hills, you’ve had a lucky escape. However, I agree, his mother’s death, two weeks ago,he may still be reeling from that?
His behaviour has been shitty though and your gut is telling you sg here.
Just my take on it, but I’d back off for a while and allow him to contact you. Don’t pursue a meeting with him.
If he’s had a difficult grief reaction then it will settle, you need to decide whether it’s a one off(mum’s death pretty significant) or whether he’s dodgy, a prize future faker.This type of reaction may be how he deals with any stressful life event. Ask yourself is that ok for you ? You choose.
One thing to add, the death of a loved one often makes us question our own mortality, hence ‘the living it up’reaction.
It’s a tough one, you know for sure that he’s staying apart from you just now, believe him. Get on with your life, take care of your needs.
If he returns, you have some careful thinking to do.
Sorry to hear it, Broadsided. Sounds like a future faker and an a**hole, if you ask me. He’s not too busy grieving to go out with his friends, but he can’t even make time for a real conversation with you? His comment about having to ‘check his schedule’ to see whether he can meet with you is rude and arrogant. It sounds as though he wants to break up and is too cowardly to tell you face to face.
Never make excuses for someone’s poor treatment of you. If he comes to you to apologize and offers an explanation, that’s one thing, but when we start to make excuses for someone who treats us badly, it’s a slippery slope–please don’t create some kind of justification for his actions. I suggest that you don’t contact him. If he calls you with anything other than a suggestion that you meet to talk, I would call him on his crap and walk away.
Thank you guys all very much for your straight talk. Points are all well taken. It’s just so unbelievable that someone you think you’re close to and sharing what feels to my radar like authentic intimate times and closeness for a couple of months would do a 180 like that. It’s not normal OR nice. I guess whether it was a blip in the radar due to grief, or just an excuse to hit the “eject” button in an unkind and abrupt fashion, time will tell.
It’s also weird that we both had what we mutuall thought was outstanding, direct communication and he had no trouble verbalizing feelings….until now.
He emailed suggesting we get together Saturday night, but that he’d “call to confirm.” I’ll report back on what actually happens – then anyone else going through something similar might have a heads up as to this bizarre M.O.
I cant help but keep coming back to this website, even when I think the advice doesn’t apply to me anymore.
I was warned not to meet my ‘ex’ a few months back when he appeared saying everything had changed a few months ago. He was as a friend of mine put it “on his best behavior” for three months. I was warily proceeding and it looked good. Until he failed to show up on the day and time we’d agreed upon, the same day he knew I was bringing my sick dog to the vet – she had to be put to sleep 🙁 . I tried calling him, messaging him and nothing until seven hours later when he called to say he’d been asleep all day because of an all night drinking binge the night before.
I’m not even hurt or angry anymore, just disappointed that I gave him another chance to let me down. I’m trying to look at why I’m attracted to certain people and Ive noticed an unhealthy pattern of men who may not be addicted to alcohol but they are happy to choose it over a woman they’ve been apparently trying to impress. Then theres the men with possible personality disorders who are flaky and inconsistent with their attention. I can see their flaws and why it wouldn’t work out and in general don’t try to pursue anything once these issues become apparent but I’m starting to wonder if I’m seeking out men who have no interest in developing a healthy relationship, and why would I do that?
I don’t mind being single, I’m not hell bent on finding someone. If I was to start a relationship I want it to be healthy and with someone I care for and who treats me with respect. I don’t think I’m interested in ‘fixing’ the injured puppy, so why do the men who start off seeming so promising, sooner or later turn out to be puppies with a sore paw?
I will share my experience with this one. Sometimes, with mental health issues or “personality disorders”, narcissism, etc…..you don’t see it coming. I didn’t. Many of these guys compensate for it by being very charming and authentic seeming. Much harder to detect than those with blatant bad behavior. I’m not sure you (and me!) are seeking them out – I think I just had a run in with my second guy with hidden mental health issues based on bizarre, out of character behavior – neither me nor my friends could see it coming. I am thinking, it is not possible to see much in advance. The best we can do is pay careful attention and take immediate action when it arises. I don’t believe in “second chances” any more. I gave a guy a second chance who assured me 3x he would not ditch me again, and guess what??? I also am too willing to love, open up and believe. I just paid for this one more time, so next time – not.
Lady Jane,
Hi. Like many of us here you do it because you are/were emotionally unavailable yourself. You may have self-esteem issues which make you settle for these types of shady guys…you don’t think you are worth more. You may have inverted ego issues and want to make them better( I did) and that’s about trying to maintain control over what can sometimes be chaotic, unrewarding or frankly dangerous situations..
It’s not easy accepting at first that it can be about you. I balked at that when I was first on site but the good news is once you gain insight- things get a lot healthier.
With the alkies,and I was with one for a while, it can be about the drama, the highs and lows as well as the feeling that you will be the woman he will quit for?? I know that I was attracted to guys who seemed different, slightly arrogant, slightly out of control, of course this is not a recipe for a productive, contented relationship.
I don’t know whether any of these situations apply to you, but I do know that if you take yourself as a starting point and stay on site for a while, the mist may clear. The awful treatment you describe in your second paragraph is dodgy, unacceptable behaviour and totally a reason to never see the guy you describe again.
Keep on posting
I just received a message from the MM. Yep the one I said wouldn’t come around sniffing now that I (and everyone else in FB land) knows his wife is pregnant. I obviously still have alot to learn. I hadn’t blocked him on FB (yes, I know I need to do this). But, I did block his texts and email account. I know I am only torturing myself by continuing to receive his communications even if I don’t send any of my own. He seems to be trying to view me as a friend here (but he is well aware of my feelings for him):
“Hey, hope ya had a good week. I got home yesterday. Great trip, sad to be home and back to work tomorrow. Oh well. Looks like your sports teams are up to their usual ways. Have a good one. Chat to ya later.”
No different than any other friendly message. Except one little, bitty detail was left out. I’ll be honest, I was tempted to respond and ask “when is she due?” but I didn’t. I deleted. Maybe he’s scared that I”ll go public with details or maybe he was just “fishing” to see if I’d respond after finding out this new information. Doesn’t really matter. Now it’s up to me to do the right thing. If you wouldn’t mind and have a few seconds to spare, please send up some prayers of strength and motivation or positive energy for me to do the right thing and stop ALL contact. If I felt I could do this all alone I wouldn’t be here gathering inspiration from all of you. I know I need to block everything..even his FB and stop trying to fool myself (I have this thought often) that we can just be friends. Going back to Nat’s 30 day NC emails and re-reading. Glad to have this site to write on instead of feeling the urge to respond to him. Thanks for listening.
‘
Ew, Complicated. That text is so surface-y it could have come from anyone. It’s the kind of thing one says to people at work when we run into them in the hall.
“Hey, hope ya had a good week. I got home yesterday. Great trip, sad to be home and back to work tomorrow. Oh well. Looks like your sports teams are up to their usual ways. Have a good one. Chat to ya later.”
I can remember when an email or a text like this would seem like a big deal. A boy is texting me! Who cares, if he’s texting you the equivalent of his weekend report he could repeat around the water cooler?
We take the contact to be the thrilling thing without looking at the content. Well, Complicated, you’re looking at the content now and noticing how much it’s missing. When you’re with an MM you have to have a habit of not noticing all that isn’t being said.
Since the AC (who was the king of saying nothing in a whole bunch of talk), I have gotten zero-content, fluff texts like that from a couple of the single, “available” guys I’ve gone out with. I see it for the shallowness it is. I’ve responded in kind only if I too want to keep things light and surface. In that case I’m happy they’re not probing too deep.
But if I actually care about someone, and hope they’re interested in me, those fluff texts disappoint with their casualness, and signal their casualness, and I know I need to move on.
My God. He is utterly shameless. Can you distract yourself with friends, go out to dinner, bookstore, library, music, cocktails, karaoke?
I’m sorry, Comp, but this text could have been sent from my dead grandmother. It’s that impersonal.
He might be fearful that you will blow the whistle on his escapades, but no matter…block FB, too. He is NOT your friend and you don’t need this mind fuckery. Choose you! Think how great it will feel to be free of him. And it will feel like that eventually, I promise.
Oh Complicated,
I’ll send up a prayer for you and for me and for all of us . Yeah, it’s time to cut all contact with this married AC. He’s got a pregnant wife. If you were the pregnant wife, what would you want you husband to be doing?
Oh, wow. What a jerk. But I know that no matter how lame his message nor how disgusted with him you are, you got a jolt of happiness and a high from seeing his name on your phone. But sweet girl, please see it for what it is. Don’t get sucked in. Seriously, even if he said, “I’ve made a huge mistake and I love you,” the fact of the matter is he has a baby on the way. Ouch. And he didn’t say that; he made some stupid sports comment again. You are worth so much more than this. Please accept that and please don’t respond.
“No different from any other friendly message. Except one little itty detail was left out. I’ll be honest, I was tempted to respond and ask “When is she due?” but I didn’t. I deleted. Maybe he’s scared that I”ll got public with the details or maybe he was just “fishing” to see if I’d respond after finding out this new information.”
complicated, I’ve been holding off making this point because it’s one that would upset me greatly if someone else pointed it out, but here’s the thing:
He probably hasn’t given a SECOND’S thought to whether or not you know or don’t know about his wife’s pregnancy. I honestly don’t believe, from what you’ve said, that the thought has crossed his mind. I don’t think that he thinks about you enough to make the connection between something being public on facebook + you seeing it. In his mind, it’s not important because you and your response isn’t really important.
As far as he’s concerned, he’s with his wife, you know this and that’s that. Her pregnancy or otherwise is, in his head, none of your concern. I suspect that he texted you because he thought “Hmm bored. I know what, I’ll text complicated because I know that she totally loves me cos I’m such a hot sex god. Yeeeeah, hot sex god me” and that was it.
If it’s any consolation, I don’t believe that he cares for his wife all that much either, but if he HONESTLY felt bad about being in touch with you then he wouldn’t be. If you do ‘go public’ he probably has a lovely story in reserve about you being an obsessed psycho ex and he’s never given you a moment of encouragement blablabla. He’d just expect to bluff it out and manipulate everyone – specifically you and his wife – into believing his version of events.
All this effort that you’re putting into thinking about him, he’s probably thinking about ketchup-flavoured crisps or his ingrown toenail for most of the time. This man is no catch. Change your number and cut all contact, please, otherwise you’re going to find yourself with many more years thrown away and with all the recovering STILL to do. xx
Yoghurt, I was thinking about that too.
The pregnancy is neither here nor there, it changes nothing. He wasn’t available before it and he isn’t now. Complicated, I spent last summer feeling anxious and miserable about the MM, I won’t be doing that this summer. How many summers will be ruined for you? We only get so many of them. If you start NC and do all the work on yourself you could really be free by then and have a nice one to remember. Please wake up, life is too short.
Complicated, your time is precious and you can never get those years back. You dont want to wake up, and realize that you have wasted , years and years with this guy. The thought of wasted years is not a good feeling, take it from me. Simply put, If you are really really serious about cutting this guy out of your life, delete him from your facebook.
Im sorry, but IMO, you are not finish with him yet, when you are really done, i mean hit rock bottom, you will not need anyone to tell you to delete him from facebook.
i not inlove with my ex any more i seem the ugly of him he is not a good person . but i been trying for the past year to be in a peace place with him but i can’t no more . it hurt me to accept that my ego was in the wrong place i had wasting my time on someone that don;t deserve it. i want to like clean my soul and spirit to refresh myself from everything i had share with him . i see i was giving him the wrong message when i pick up his call or when out with him a couple of time after we broke up. i am shame hope this shame feeling goes away asap. stay bless
Me again. Hoping to get this all off my chest to sleep peacefully tonight. I really want to be happy for his upcoming arrival of a baby. I mean, having a baby is an exciting time in any married couple’s life and I did/still do care for him even though I shouldn’t. Even though he is an AC. Such an awful situation to be in, but reality is, I have the choice to leave anytime and choose to put ME first. In addition, I’m going to do my best to stay No Contact out of respect for his wife. She did nothing to deserve this. I’m trying to be thankful it’s not me who is left at home pregnant while the husband is out trying to get other women to sext him and chatting them up daily. Hmmm, maybe I should send him a thank you note for showing me who he really is and NOT choosing me to marry all those years ago. I won’t of course, but it was an interesting thought.
When one figures out that the power lies within oneself, it can be life-changing.
Day 2 No Contact:
No sooner had I opened my eyes this morning, the sickness filled my stomach and the anxiety attack (or what I could only assume it was) began. Yep, even though this was going on, I found myself turning over to see if that darn notification light was blinking. Sheer habit. I wasn’t even out of bed yet. Serenity prayer! I’ll say that. After saying it about 100x, I decided to focus on my breathing. Afterall, something has to work…right? Well, I don’t have the option of just laying in bed feeling this way, so I get up. I feel like a hollowed out pumpkin right before Halloween. Who’da thought spending 4 years of waving that “choose me” stick would get me to this point in my life. How can I be so miserable and the MM end up being so happy having it all..a woman he knows is in pain over him and a wife with an unborn child on the way. Part of me hopes he’ll find a way to get through to me or that I’ll become weaker (if that’s possible) and unblock him so I can get the confirmation from him (via text or messaging of course) that she is indeed pregnant. That she was indeed pregnant all this time he was asking me to give more of myself knowing he was keeping that pertinent information from me. He knew it would be the end for me and him, because I can’t do this with a man who has a pregnant wife. Even the OW has standards (insert sarcasm). Maybe in my twisted mind, this self-fulfilling prophecy of him leaving (although he was never really here) was fulfilled. Or maybe he’d still want to continue on with this ‘thing’ we have confirming he wasn’t that great all along and I simply chose to ignore it. I was too busy trying to get him to choose me.
Oof, Complicated you must really like texting.
He’ll be back. Not because he likes you so much but because he really couldn’t GAF. Why should he change whats suits him just because you’re unhappy and his wife is pregnant? He’s not bothered. He’s a …. (insert expletive – I’m trying to give up swearing).
You’ve always had the pertinent information – MARRIED. You’re acting like he’s the first man in the world to get his wife pregnant and he should justify that to you. You have no rights over him at all, none whatsoever. We don’t think so, he doesn’t think so, his wife wouldn’t think so and neither would their child.
Change your number.
Grace, Complicated and all,
So many great comments on this thread.
Complicated, the thrill of the blinking red light does fade but I do remember the fantasy that the blinking red light means he was choosing me. Nope, in reality it was just another crumb text. I don’t stare at my cell anymore or get the jitters if is blinking. But I remember those sad, hollow moments when that’s all there was.
It really finally dawned on me from reading Natalie’s posts and so many incredible comments on this thread that these MM/AC/EUM’s are separate people with separate wants, needs, and problems. The exMM was not feeling my humiliation and despair. I get it finally. He wasn’t even worried about my fantasy or my “choose me stick”. He had what he wanted. A wife, a family, and a mistress. Is all he had to do was throw me a few crumbs feeding my illusion that “one day air traffic control was going to give me the signal that I could land and take up my slot”. Why would he change if I still stuck around in a holding pattern? His problems weren’t the same as mine. That’s a little ahha moment for me. Don’t know who had bigger problems, doesn’t matter.
Complicated, even though the fact that his wife is pregnant seems like a big deal, it may just be the dose of reality needed for you to move on. I hope so for you. I’m betting he hasn’t given it any thought as to how you may feel because he’s married, you knew that, and MM’s have babies with their wives, even when they have mistresses. My dose of reality was that he’d be spending the second X-mas with his wife and family while I spent X-mas waiting for the blinking red light. His experience of X-mas was different from mine. It may be that his experience regarding their pregnancy may different from yours? He has chosen to have a child with his wife.
Hi Grace,
I have always had the right information…I was just choosing to live in denial. Well, I’m back in reality now and feel like I’m in withdrawl from a drug. The trip from fantasy land to reality is a bumpy one. I did this to myself, so now I’m paying the consequences. Hopefully, ill emerge wiser and stronger like most of you have. The only right I have, is the right to be happy. Im choosing me for once.
Complicated and Bri, I’m going to say something to you both that you probably don’t want to hear but must be said because it pains me that not only are you both up to your usual mischief in real life but that you still both press the reset buttons with yourselves and then come here and do it too.
The first step out of denial is for you both to stop acting like you have never been at this point before. Stop pretending that this is fresh, stop pretending that this is a surprise and stop pretending that you both haven’t been at this point before talking the talk. Stop pretending that you’re going to do something and that you want to change – you are not at that point yet.
Stop pretending that you have a relationship – you both give a whole new meaning to the ‘Other Woman’. Neither of you are having an affair – whatever it is that you both think these men are participating in, they *ain’t* participating. You are both having affairs with your ego’s and imaginations. That is it. These men are just props – like cardboard fricking cutouts. These are not affairs.
Let me tell you – when a man (or woman for that matter) wants to screw around and has someone throwing it to them on tap, they’ll take it. These men do not want to screw around – they want some low level entertainment occasionally but they are not leaving their wives. What would they be leaving for? There’s nothing to base a relationship on.
They have tried various means of squeezing you both out and hoped you’d both have the self-respect to take the hint of this crap that’s masquerading for an affair and their even crappier treatment of you and that you’d LEAVE. Fearing conflict and problems in general means that they hope you both just scuttle off instead of turning into Glenn Close’s.
These men have bitten off more than they can chew – this has gotten out of hand and they don’t know how to make you both go away. Quietly. They’re also fucked up enough to derive a certain amount of ego stroking from you both making much ado about nothing.
In virtual terms, you two are both a hop, skip and a jump from pulling a Glenn. One of you thinks you’re having an affair with a man who is fending you off in the office and won’t see you and has a wife, three kids, two of whom are disabled, and the other is stalking Facebook and waiting for an explanation as to why he has stuck his willy in his wife and made her pregnant.
This is pure fuckery.
Remember what Magnolia said – the moment that there is deception, stop everything. You two are out and out responsible for the bulk of the deceiving. Take responsibility! Stop lying! Save yourselves. You two have lied so much you don’t even realise that you’re lying anymore. Please get some help and learn the language of truth – reality, honesty and authenticity.
i don’t see how anyone can have affairs with married people. perhaps for me, its always been a no go territory, though my friend recently quit her job because she is attracted to a married man, who is attracted to her too and has been giving her the ‘signs’ to make a move. if she did make a move, he would be accepting of it, though in his mind, won’t blame himself because hey, she made the move. so my friend doesn’t want to be the cause of potentially ruining someone’s life (his family). in saying that, why are women hell bent on these affairs with these married men. put it in perspective, if these men were to dump their wives for you, would you really trust, that he won’t do the same back to you? why would you want someone with those kinda morals. So i suggest for people who work with married men and have affairs with them, i think it would be best to remove yourself from that environment. also, i think women need to consider the innocent people involved-the wife and children. how would you feel like being in their position. i must say i find absolute distaste in people conducting affairs with married people then complaining about it. he’s not your love/soul mate he’s taken and has a family. leave him alone.
Jasmine,
True. But the MMs are responsible too. No one has an affair against their will. The internet is full of MMs actively seeking out clandestine affairs/hookups/hookers etc. And they do often tell a lot of lies to the OW in order to get what they want.
The wives and children are principally the man’s responsibility as a husband and father.
Mymble,
They may tell lies, but it doesn’t matter. They’re married.
One is not a victim if she chooses to get involved with a MM!
Allison,
Victim is your word, not mine. I dont make excuses for either party. But I don’t feel that women should bear all the blame, or be the custodians of mens morality.
Totally agree with mymble. I used to flirt with attached or married men in the past, even had one or two OST with such guys, and came close to that in a few more cases (shame on me – and truth told, I felt really really crappy while doing that!). But many of those guys simply found another OW candidate as soon as I lost interest in them. Others kept pursuing me against my will which bordered on stalking in a few cases.
Some people tend to blame only the OW and maybe the wife too (!!!), while sparing the cheating husband, claiming he fell victim (!) to the OW’s “seductive skills” and/or to his wife’s “bitchiness”. I call that sexist. Wife and kids are victims, not the cheating husband.
OW situations are just an ugly thing all around. They are a crime, commited by the husband together with his OW as his accomplice. Do you really want to participate in a crime? STAY AWAY.
Nat
This comment is one of your best.
I’m gonna print it off, build a time machine and hand it over to my younger, prettier self. And give her a quick slap round the head while I’m at it (though violence is not the answer).
Hi Nat,
As always, I appreciate your comments and tough love. Where I have to disagree is when you said: “In virtual terms, you two are both a hop, skip and a jump from pulling a Glenn.” I realize this was probably said as tongue-in-cheek, but struck a cord with me probably because I’ve been so passive about this whole situation and ended up feeling like a doormat (yes, I know, I allowed myself to be treated this way). I may have deceived myself into thinking this man cared for me based on his words and crumbs (no actions), and while I obviously was in Fantasy land hoping this would be my happily ever after, I was in my own head. In addition, I am taking responsibility for my own actions and feelings by attending LAA meetings, reading, blogging on this site, blocking him and doing my best NOT to relapse this time. Most addicts of any type relapse between 7-9 times before recovering. Obviously, I have been powerless over my fantasy and affections of this man for years (Fyi..first step in LAA recovery is admitting this) and now working on the steps to make myself better and face the reality so I can have a true relationship based on “reality, honesty and authenticity”. I realize this is not a self-help website, but those that have chosen to be non-judgmental along with others who share their similar stories have given me more insight and wisdom along this journey. I recently started reading the book “Women Who Love Too Much” by Robin Norwood, which talks about how many of us have been “”Man junkies” and we need to admit the severity of our problem before we can begin to recover from it”. This was definitely written for someone like me. I am not perfect and have never claimed to be. One day, I look forward to finding myself in a better place, free of this fantasy.
Complicated, if only you wrote more comments like this, consistently, how different things would be. It’s all very well taking exception to what is being said or feeling ‘judged’ which I think is quite unfair considering that you are by far the most replied to and supported commenter on this blog. Ever. You may think I’m a pain in the arse or dislike others or whatever – before you judge, you might want to take a second or few to consider why so many people have rooted for you, shared, and yes, even expressed their outrage. Nobody wants or expects any brownie points – it’s only you who has to expect anything of you so instead of making snarky comments about “those that have chosen to be non-judgmental”, it may be better to focus on the positives. Just because people aren’t saying what you want to hear, doesn’t mean that they’re mean or don’t care.
Anything said to you here is based on what you present. The commenting facility provides an opportunity to add to the subject of the post – over the past 72 hours, you have made no mention of any of these things that you’re doing. Instead, you blazed in after an absence with this whole pregnancy thing and revisited this whole thing in much the same way as previous times. You talk about receiving texts, analysing the rather mundane message, checking Facebook, wanting to play the game of trying to get him to admit that his wife is pregnant etc etc. Why *aren’t* you talking about all of this stuff that you’re doing like the LAA? Don’t you think it would help you? Don’t you think it’s something great to share?
No, because, and you’re not the only one that does this, it feels better to whip yourself up over these shenanigans.
And I should add – it’s not that you have to share this stuff you’re doing but if you’re going to burn up airtime talking about this other stuff, accept responsibility for that also.
If you want people to talk about something different and to have a different perception of your situation, talk about something different. If you burn up the comments with all of this drama over the texts, pregnancy, that is what people have to work from. It shouldn’t take me saying something for you to do the whole ‘Er, actually, I’m doing this, this, this and this’. I am not a mind reader – I couldn’t even begin to glean this stuff from your comments. Good for you taking responsibility and good for you helping yourself. I already know that behind what you have presented here or even convinced yourself that you are or have been, is a woman that deserves better than what she’s been giving herself and has been given by others who have only been too happy to take advantage of your hands being off the wheel and your eyes being off the road in your own life. Good luck and take care of you.
I have a good friend who has supported me through my entire saga, and he says, consistently, although I won’t do it justice here, that we are not our stories. That the story that I wasted bla bla amount of time and am limited and inadequate and there’s this vast distance that must be traveled to be whole — is false.
He says that we *already are* powerful, we already are whole, and we already have access to vast riches we’ve delegated or ceded to validation from , love from, something external.
So our broken or limited stories we share here, yes they’re real and honest, but they are a function of not understanding what truly is. He says change feels like it is this huge, daunting, exhausting undertaking, but actually could be instantaneous, if we woke up to the truth of our power and infinity.
Last night he came over and we did sitting meditation. I can feel that he’s right, but it’s so scary to give up the repetitive story of self. What if everything was *already okay*? That it just took a shift of perception?
Just to tie this to the thread, what strikes me is that we post here, as best we can, entrapped in our stories and stuckness. We present, while believing it entirely true, our smaller selves, our limiting stories. My friend believes we already are what we so much wish we could become or have delegated to our EUMs to supply for us. We just need to wake up. That validation and love and acceptance and wholeness we are seeking is already ours, and always has been.
Natalie, I am rolling with laughter at what is not supposed to be a funny post, because you just summed up exactly what I think was going on in my MMs head. I have thought the same things (and even said some of them to him in moments of utter frustration), only to be reassured that the thought had never crossed his mind that I might turn on him. Ha. I even compared myself to Glenn Close, saying I wouldn’t go that route. Thank you for your brutal honesty. Sometimes that’s what we need to see the light, and our scared MMs aren’t going to be the ones to deliver it.
Ok… so the thing is, the pity parties I have thrown for myself aren’t working anymore because I realize that there was a moment in my relationship with my MM, where I decided to go against my morals, against my better judgement, against my heart pounding out of my chest warning me to RUN and I jumped into something. From “that” moment on, I was no longer Little Red Riding Hood being lulled in by the wolf. Oh no… from that moment on I became an accomplice.
And the biggest revelation for me in my journey of getting over this was realizing my own ugliness. My own unavailability. My own unwillingness to live my life to the fullest. My own lack of being the girl who got away and becoming the one who wouldn’t go away. I thought he owed me something. But it’s been said, I signed a contract to nowhere.
And now I find myself blaming it all on him. Are these guys wolves?! YES! But are they taking us hostage? No! We willingly went along for the ride, we seen that things weren’t right, we weren’t being treated right, this situation was shady. We felt the uneasiness, we cried ourselves to sleep and yet we still got in the “car.”
So now that it’s become unbearable… who are you going to blame? Him… or you? Which person has control of you? Which person should have control of you? Are there people out there that will use and abuse you if you let them? YES! Are we supposed to learn to protect ourselves from them? YES! I remembered in the very beginning of my “non- relationship” with a MM, I actually said to him… “you need to protect me by going away…” he said, “that is ridiculous, how can I protect you if I am not around?” What he didn’t understand is that I was asking HIM to protect me from himself. I knew he was going to destroy me. I knew his charm… I knew I would fall in love and that he wasn’t available and in the end there would be pain. I KNEW! Ugh! And so I handed over the power of protecting myself TO THE WOLF. No wonder I didn’t make it.
So you know what…. I’m sorry but the pity parties have to stop. The real work of taking ownership of our choices has to begin. That is the only way to handle this situation. Cut it off, Cut it out… and fix ourselves. Over analyzing… etc etc…we just drag out the process. The only ones responsible for this mess are those of us who decided or keep deciding to go along with it.
Reality, I could’ve written that post, it was so similar to what I’ve been thinking. Wolves in sheeps’ clothing, the snake we pick up not expecting to bite us, etc. I basically gave my MM a user guide entitled “How To Manipulate Blindsided” early in our relationship when I was explaining my vulnerabilities and how I’d messed up past relationships. But then I was outraged when he actually used what I’d given him to his advantage.
I’m unavailable too, which is why I keep pursuing these guys and have always found the sweet men blasé. I just hope all of us who are in this situation can work out our issues and get better. Reading this blog and Nat’s book are helping, but I’m the “smash and grab” type who wants what I want RIGHT NOW. I need to change my expectations and be more patient. Thanks, all.
Thanks Nat! Half the time I feel like my comments are all over the place too. Kinda seems like sometimes I have several streams of consciousness occurring all at once and can’t get them out fast enough haha.
Up until this article I have always agreed 100% with Natalie. However, I disagree on this one regarding waiting to be “The Chosen One.” In my personal experience and what other women have shared with me about theirs, it is the MALE who CHOOSES whether he is going to be in a relationship or not. It is NOT the woman. When was the last time any woman told the guy “I’ve decided that you’re the one for me, I’ve chosen you, we are now in a relationship and will stay in it ’til death us do part”?!
I can only speak for myself, but I can definitely say that although I am very assertive outside of a romantic relationship with a male, when I am in what I believe to be “relationship” or in “the early stages of a what I believe may become a relationship” (which I define as regular and consistent dating, going out with the person at least one night in the middle of the week and spending Friday evening through Sunday morning together), I ADAPT myself to the guy. I do this NOT because I’m a wuss (at least I don’t think that I am), but because I don’t like to pursue the guy – so I LET HIM INITIATE the contact. I also don’t like lazy guys who expect the woman to do the “courting,” so I let HIM plan the dates, although if there is some place that I would like to go to or a movie that I’d like to see, I let him know in a nice way. I also “adapt” myself to the guy in the sense that I don’t initiate calls to him (although I do return calls promptly, since I was raised to believe that delaying returning calls to people is rude). I definitely, with few exceptions, do not email the guy (I expressly tell them that I am a phone person and that I don’t communicate via emails unless it’s to send directions to a place or send a link to a social activity or event we might both enjoy going to, and that type of thing). I don’t text at all (it’s too impersonal – so if he’s interested in me, he can PICK UP THE PHONE AND CALL ME!). I also do NOT ASK ABOUT WHETHER WE ARE IN A RELATIONSHIP OR WHETHER THEY LOVE ME OR ANY OF THAT NONSENSE. This is what I mean by adapting myself to the guy; in other words, I LET HIM TAKE THE INITIATIVE and I wait to see if he is going to initiate the “I love you talk.” I do, however, say from the get-go that if we progress to physical intimacy, I expect monogamy out of basic mutual respect and consideration for each…
This sounds a lot like morphing, shaping, bending, twisting. I take a gender neutral approach, both should be seeing whether its what they want.
Anne
I think men would say the opposite. It’s women who choose. The truth is probably somewhere else.
For someone who is waiting to be chosen, you are doing a lot of controlling – he has to do this, that or the other. You have to do (or not do) this, that or the other. Sounds a bit stressy. I’ve done all that stuff myself but my best relationships (and I did have a couple that were all right until I sabotaged them) didn’t start out with anyone pursuing anyone else. It was mutual.
The one that broke my heart – he pursued me. Took me out, wined me, dined me, paid for everything. I no longer see it as indicative of anything other than a fat wallet.
And no more adapting for me, I’m not a chameleon.
Still, good call on the emails and texting.
I’m back here again. I had to re-read this post as a reminder about my current situation. I’ve been waiting a year for him to see the light and choose me but it’s never going to happen. I’m right back at point A feeling really stupid for breaking NC and accepting him back. He lied again,skipped town to visit his ex again. I did not see it coming and only learned about it due to my superb intuition and investigative skills. He didn’t tell me shit! I feel like a fool. I am a fool. I should have left him alone months ago.
He is never going to choose me! Why would he when I’m so willing to give him everything for nothing?