Over the years of writing Baggage Reclaim, I’ve heard from many thousands of people who have essentially ended up inadvertently falling into the role of housekeeper, nursemaid, chauffeur, bank manager, secretary, babysitter, mama, papa, armchair psychologist, emotional airbag, masterchef, rehab counselor and the list goes on. When we’re inclined to be people pleasers, we suppress our needs, expectations and wishes and devote our time, energy and emotions into pleasing others so that we can be approved of, loved and in many ways, yes, indispensable. We can feel so unnecessary to ourselves that rolling into a doormat via people pleasing is how we feel vital in people’s lives.
Now I’m not for one moment suggesting that it’s ‘bad’ to do things for others but – and I want you to hear tires screeching or the needle being ripped from the record – when we attempt to make ourselves ‘indispensable’ as a means of showing our love and to also ‘win’ people over, we end up being deeply compromised and very much unappreciated, and what we are appreciated for, is for all of the wrong reasons.
And here’s the kicker: making you indispensable in these ways isn’t a means of being more emotionally open and demonstrative. Suppressing your feelings, opinions, needs, etc, is going to do anything but help you be emotionally available and honest. You’re doing too much pretending for that.
When we go down the Let Me See If I Can Find One Million and One Ways For You To Not Have To Lift a Finger In This Relationship route, it appears ‘easier’ than 1) respecting ourselves and letting things unfold so that we see whether the other party steps up and 2) having to truly put ourselves at ‘risk’ of vulnerability and be more honest with ourselves about what is going on. Both options would ultimately require us to hear, see and to more importantly, act.
I remember many moons ago when I was living with my ex fiance. I knew something major had shifted – I may have had shite taste in men but my ‘ole spidey senses were rarely off (when I heeded them). It literally felt as if the sun had been out in our relationship (with the ‘occasional’ light to heavy rain, thunder and storms) but now there was just darkness with occasional brightness. In previous times, I’d covered the cracks by fussing around, apologising even if it meant making his apologies for him.. and sometimes cracking out the underwear and making out like I was having the most amazing time of my life in bed, when really, it was beginning to feel like putting in a little bit of a debt payment and maybe giving away a few goods (you know like when people give away a valuable to help towards the debt) to keep the inevitable off my back.
In realising that something serious had gone awry and him at one point even saying that he was done, I pulled out the big guns. I tried to keep the place squeaky clean, I cooked, I attempted to master ironing as if I was a dry cleaners (I left more lines in his shirts than a tube map according to him), I tried to be more agreeable (read: mute), I tried never to turn the blinds in the wrong direction…, I let my coursework nosedive, I was probably being a right brown-noser…and basically I finally lost touch with me.
And you know what? Nothing was ever enough.
With the benefit of hindsight, I can see now that I used being indispensable in these ways as a substitute for having to do the emotional work on my end in the relationship, which was even as simple as seeing the two of us as individual entities and recognising the unhealthiness of our relationship and my own issues. I thought that by making myself ‘necessary to him’ that he had no reason to leave but 1) I had plenty of reasons to leave and 2) he could hire a cook, cleaner etc. You lose respect for you and they lose respect for you plus it all gets a bit blurred around what role you play in their life.
As a child I learned how to read a room as well as people’s moods – tension as well as even the slight possibility of drama or being disapproved of, were my cues to jump through hoops. Hell, as a teen, doing chores and sucking up when there was a mood change was how we rolled. Problem is, I was never going to have a mutual relationship with love, care, trust and respect by thinking and behaving in this manner. Ultimately nothing I was doing was actually addressing the problems and I was also making myself indispensable to somebody who drained me.
Being indispensable in your relationships, romantic or otherwise, is the fast track to becoming responsible for everything in the relationship. Unsurprisingly, you’ll be expected to be indispensable on the blame front too plus let’s be fair, because you’ve practically broken your back being a doormat and it’s still not enough, you’re bound to feel like it must be something that you’ve ‘done’ because surely if you’re doing all of this stuff, you should be appreciated? Right?
I’ve talked numerous times about overgiving and people pleasing, especially when you do the whole ‘good girlfriend’ / ‘good boyfriend’ thang to try to get people to give you what you want. Unless being indispensable is how you roll and you are doing it out of the goodness of your heart (yeah, you’re probably expecting something), don’t go down this road.
If that ‘something’ is why you’re doing all of this to create a tipping point with the other party, take this as your code red alert that this is not mutual because you don’t feel and act equal.
Once you’re more honest about why you feel and act this way, you can acknowledge and address any issues plus it’s the first step to acting with self-care, because you shouldn’t be putting you through an emotional mincer in order to feel worthy or to cling onto a relationship that may actually be compromising you. Love is an action but if your action is people pleasing, you’re cutting the self-love out of your life. That and you’re sheltering the other party from their responsibilities and their own actions – that’s not love.
If you wouldn’t do what you’re doing if you didn’t think that there would be some sort of reward at the end of the yellow brick road, roll back, waaaaaay back. Examine what you’re doing all of this stuff as a cover for – to avoid conflict? To play down shady behaviour? To avoid being vulnerable? To avoid being alone or single? To fit in? To avoid having to see what’s actually going on? To avoid being responsible for your own happiness and life?
Often we do this stuff because on some level we believe that it ties them to us. It’s why I hear from people who end up financing someone shady, or repeatedly taking them back despite dodgy treatment, or trying to fix/heal/help with their Florence Nightingale ways. On some level they’re thinking, If I’m doing all of this, they have no reason to leave. Sometimes they’re thinking, I did ________ and put up with _______ so they can’t leave. They owe me!
You owe you your own respect.
Does this even feel good to you? Or do you feel afraid, taken advantage of and marginalised? Relationships shouldn’t involve making you a slave to someone on a throne in your mind. You are vital to your own well-being and there’s no point starving you while overfeeding someone else in the hopes that they’ll throw you back some scraps. They’ll waste what you give.
Your thoughts?
Holiday Update
- I’m still on holiday but… I’m gradually easing back into work. I’ve missed BR!
- BR is going to be 8 this week. Eight years I’ve been doing this. I need to organise some celebrations!
- My hair is the shortest it’s been since I was a teenager. After the initial excitement on Saturday, I woke up on Sunday in a panic although I do actually like it. I will post a photo on the next post. It’s actually been one of those experiences that has reminded me of some important lessons that I will of course be sharing.
- Em and I have started decluttering to get the house ready to sell plus it will make it easier when we pack up. It took about two minutes before we were bickering over who is the biggest hoarder. I still say it’s him but… he took out three Ikea bags of stuff I thought I’d given away ages ago. Handbags, shoes and clothes from my single days. But then there was a huge box of his learn to speak Spanish books which I’m sure he was supposed to have gotten rid of when we moved over six years ago…. It’s been epic, but today we cleared one side of the attic, sorted out a lot of shredding and donated lots of stuff to charity. House hunting is fun but tiring and I’m realising that it’s going to be one of those lessons in decision making and commitment…
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I’m glad that I am reading this, although I don’t think that I am in any danger of going there with the exMM. I have, however, chatted with him a few times in the last month, and even saw his kids (I never did that the whole time we were involved). I kept my guard up and just focused on the kids (who, being kids, are awesome). The exMM and I talked a little bit. I asked him how he was doing, and how things were going in his new home – the home of the Other Other Woman whom he fled to in January when his marriage simply could not take another day of his lies and his wife’s anger. He didn’t seem to be in an easy place with it all, but still, it seemed like the OOW has cast herself in this role. In addition to giving him and his sons a home (they are there half-time), she buys them all gifts and she babysits. I know at this point that they share a room. She’s really given her all to them, with the rationalization that she is indepedently wealthy, so it isn’t much of an effort for her. Still, even if you are so rich that you sweat diamonds, it still is a sacrifice. In a separate conversation, where he was careful not to be specific about whom he was talking about, when I asked him if his trouble marriage was what triggered him to cheat, he, perhaps, honestly said that he doesn’t feel capable of monogamy, and that it is only a matter of time before he philanders, no matter how much he loves and desires his partner. So, in other words, the OOW, no matter how much she gives him, will never have him. In a separate conversation, he half-joked that had the OOW not taken him in, he would have asked me. This is the point that relates to this post; hearing that so-called joke made chills run down my spine. If it hadn’t been her, it would have been me. He doesn’t understand the gift he gave me 8 months ago by running to her instead of me. In that time, I have pulled my head out of my dreamer-ass and have seen the situation for its true colors. I had to be alone, angry, hurt (mostly at myself) for a few months. My heart then opened and I saw that an old friend of mine was someone worth giving my heart to, and for the last few months I have been working on this new relationship. it has its problems, since he is jobless, and that affects the morale of everything and creates some pitfalls for me to take care of him, but he is totally emotionally available, and Does Not Play Games with me. I am glad that when the exMM joked that he would have moved in with me, I only felt relief for myself that he didn’t, and pity for him and his situation. He still loves his wife, yet he desperately takes everything the OOW gives him, yet he says that once he gets his mojo back, he will invariably chase new skirts. Meanwhile, I am no longer caught up in that mess.
(The sons are at the house half time. The exMM is there full time. The exMM still evades telling me about his relationship with the OOW, but when I saw the house, there was only one room set up as an adult bedroom, so I don’t need to ask)
(You may rightfully question my wisdom of seeing where he lives. (and note, the OOW was away at the time, but I knew, with the kids there, that the exMM wasn’t going to pull a move on me). I guess I went because the whole time we were involved, I ended up being most frustrated about how in-the-dark I felt. He managed me by drip-feeding me the truth, and this made my fantasy wheels spin into overdrive. I gathered that it might be helpful for me to really get closure to see where he lives, meet his kids, even meet the OOW, and finally see the truth with my eyes, rather than rely on him. I believe that it has been helpful, and I credit him, in part, with not playing any games with me. It probably helps that he knows that I am in a new relationship as well, and am really no longer an option)
I think in part that since I am no longer lost in my fantasy world (or am not as prone to it), I am finally better able to see his situation with clearer eyes. I don’t want to speculate about the OOW’s motives. She is probably the biggest doormat in the universe, but maybe she isn’t. The point is that it is no longer my concern.
I know that 6 months ago, I might not have had the willpower to turn down the OW’s fantasy of having the MM flee the marriage into her arms. I just thank my stars that I have had that time (that grueling time) to come to my senses about this situation.
Amanda, Come on now. Three posts all about the exMM and his OOW? What about you? What about working on your life and not being preoccuppied (yes 3 posts indicates preoccupation) with this dude. You’ve gone from MM to someone who is jobless. So, imo, you haven’t exactly done better. Work on yourself, your esteem, your goals in life. Maybe, by doing that you will find a man who is worthy of YOU. Unless of course, you are EU which looks like a likely possibility.
Hey, Tinkerbell, I cop to having my moments of falling back in the rabbit hole, and that sometimes comes out when I visit BR, but you aren’t with me the rest of the day, so you have no idea. Give the judgment a rest, will ya? Also, not all people are jobless by choice. You don’t know the whole story about my friend, so, again, give your judgment a rest. Are you quick to judge me because you are too uncomfortable looking at your own life? Did I say something here that hits too close to home? If so, I am sorry for whatever pain you are carrying. I can probably relate to it. You have my full support, care, and love in how you work it out, no matter how many corners you run into, no matter how many times you backslide.
Plus, if you read further in my comments (I know its hard to follow threads here), it doesn’t shock me that you would put the EU-scarlet-letter on me. I have long been aware of it, and have been trying in earnest to work on it. I don’t think that I ever claim here to be immune. I struggle on a daily basis between my real commitments and the imagined ones that serve as escapes. I don’t think that anyone who reads BR has the brazenness to think that they are immune from attracting once again a bad relationship. They either see themselves as victims, or they see how they play a part in the cycle, and are working hard to get better understanding. One thing I try not to do in my recovery is point my finger at others and tell them how bad a job they are doing in their recovery. If I am tempted to do that, I first ask myself, why do I Have such a strong reaction? Do I see myself in this person? The answer is invariably yes. Try it!
Amanda,
You need to realize that what you post is going to be scrutinized by a very wide diverse group of readers. People may give opinions that you may not want to hear but presumably it is done with the intention of helping. I was giving you constructive criticism. I cannot understand why you would waste the opportunity to vent and have the benefit of receiving different opinions which may be contrary to your own. You are correct in saying that your posting must have struck a nerve in me. I responded to you in a vigorous manner because it didn’t seem to me that coddling is what you needed. I have been in your situation. Being involved with a married man is devastine and demoralizing. Most of us after that particular experience want to get over the hurt and pain as throughly and as quickly as possible. Your incessant posting about him and the OW indicates that you are, (despite your saying that you are not) still stuck back there. Why else would you wish to continue talking about not only him, but therir relationship.
Tinkerbell,
Let me be the first to cop to some defensiveness here. I don’t expect to be coddled, no. As I was the first to reply to this post, I know that my comments are going to be widely read, and will generate wide reactions. And, believe me, I have had numerous people kick my ass about this. I don’t see your comments as being necessarily constructive, but I’ll attribute that to perhaps different styles in how we try to help people. You seem quick to tell people how it is with them. I first try to hear them out and give them the benefit of the doubt. Your way gets quicker results, for better or for worse. I don’t like your style, but it may be fine for others.
Of course I am not totally over the exMM. The pain I put myself through in trying to have a relationship with him (the pain which I created for myself) is what led me to BR. When I come here, read the posts, I see that some people are more lost than I am, some people are less lost. I think when people comment on BR (when they share about their stories, rather than comment on others), they are doing so at times when they feel weak, and they may or may not bring their best BR-skills to the fore. I know that when I complain about the MM, its because I am still working things out. I am still weak. I guess it doesn’t help me to hear someone tell me that I am obsessing too much about it, or that I am EU, when I tell myself these things 1,000 times a day.
I appreciate your concern. and I know you mean well.
Here is the conundrum. The day that I am totally over the MM, and totally in possession of myself, will probably be the day that I stop spending so much time on BR. In essence. you will probably never see the totally healed or empowered me, because once she emerges, she wont be spending time on this forum. Meanwhile, while I am here, I am going to share when I feel weak, and I am going to give support to others when I feel strong. When I do give support to others, it will probably be in a different tone from how you do – one which is no more or no less valid.
I guess the things that I felt most defensive about were (a) when you said that I was no less healed for having a jobless boyfriend. and (b) when you called me EU. I know you meant to help, but my feedback for you is that it doesn’t, especially as you don’t know me from Adam.
Amanda,
I can only know you by what you write. That’s all any of us can know about another poster. Presumably, what you write is from the heart. The message I got was that you are trying to move on, but you are continuing to obsess about the MM and the OW. These people should not be your chief concern if you are sincere in trying to recover from that experience. Whatever they do has nothing to do with you and that is the way you should view it. It’s hard, I know, because you are still hurting. dissecting their relationship and fault finding makes you feel better but it is a temporary patch and not constructive at all fior you. The more time you waste on them is the less time you are working on improving your own life. I repeat. Focus on yourself. They are not important. I made the remark about your jobless friend which I admit was wrong. I was thinking in terms of YOU doing better for yourself. True, there are various reasons why individuals are unemployed in these very hard times, but you also made a comment about taking care of him? You don’t appear to be in any position to be taking care of a grown man, regardless of why he is unemployed and why you would want that after the MM experience in which you are still embroiled should be of concern to you. I did not have a man for quite awhile after the MM experience. As a matter of fact, I spent considerable time online because the MM experience was so shameful, destructive degrading, and self- loathing for me until I could no longer stand myself and got out of it. I used OLD to help me forget him and, during that time I was EU. I didn’t really want serious involvement for fear of getting hurt again so quickly. I have shared my stories of a great deal of pain here on BR. I’m no longer in that dark place after doing a ton of work on myself and I want nothing else than to see other women stop throwing their lives away on no-good men. My abrasive style is not easy to put up with. I know this very well. But, fortunately for me it has helped me get out of BS situations a bit more quickly. I have a thriving relationship with a wonderful man, now, for which I am very grateful and satisfied. It’s not perfect, but overall it is a healthy one which gives me great
joy. I hope you will soon arrive there also. Some people get there faster than others. Plus, previous life experiences and age have a great deal to do with how quickly and effectively we are able to move. But it is always a lengthy process. One thing I know to be true is that dwelling on the past, particularly when you are giving him and her so much weight and importance in your life is not the way to move on to happiness. I apologize for upsetting you by my choice of words. Actually, I really do wish you well.
Personally, I like Tinks kick-butt style. It’s helped me realize some of my ‘fantasy’ remnants and stuckness. Also, she does offer supportive feedback when we’re doing well. I’d be appreciative that’s she’s taken time to respond to your situation and taken it upon herself to reflect what she sees. If you are open to it, it will only help. I guess I like her style as it is close to my own, and our experiences were similar. I do however appreciate that not all styles mesh, there are some posters that I don’t gell with, I just skip over their posts and focus on the ones that jibe with me. I hope that you NC this MM loser that you plainly see is a lying user. The mental space that will open up for other things in your life will only benefit you.
Gosh, Amanda, that’s hilarious, sad, and scary all at once… What a pathetic man! I’d count my blessings if I were you, indeed! In fact, I am counting my own blessings because my ex, who was not married, but who was a cheater and, based on what I know about him and how highly addicted he is to sex, porn, and promiscuous sexual behaviors/acts, I would say that he, too, is incapable of staying with any one woman. That is why, at 40, he has never been married — though he claimed he had lived with partners for over 4-5 years. In most of the cases I have heard from my friends, of their own experiences with long-term partners, men who live with their girlfriends for extended periods of time, but do not propose, are almost invariably uninterested in commitment, and are just spending time while they wait for an upgrade to come along. And they HAVE left their partners once they have found those (supposedly) upgrade women.. Anyway, just to point out that my ex appears to have been one of those. Counting my blessings every day.
Unfortunately a proposal and marriage is no guarantee that a person is capable of staying with one person either.
The arseface I was married to for five years had been engaged to his previous partner that he was living with and has now moved onto ‘the future Mrs H…’ as he and the new poor deluded woman refer to her as.
He too consumes copious amounts of porn, cheats whenever the opportunity presents itself (including with work colleagues), and initiates sexting with Facebook friends. And this is just what I actually know about.
So as Nat says a ‘social proof’ of having been married is no proof at all of character or shared values of fidelity and commitment.
True that, but I think the fact that he hasn’t even proposed to anyone at 40, despite moving in with the women he had been in long-term relationships with, indicates severe commitmentphobia/emotional unavailability.
Thanks for the solidarity! Yes, the exMM was/is also extremely immersed in porn. Once I started reading BR and became attuned to living in fantasy versus reality, my eyes opened to the analog world that porn-addicts live in. The exMM was such a devoted consumer of the work of various porn actresses that he had himself convinced at one point that he could meet one specific one in real life. Of course, this was never going to happen, but I know that the fantasy of this kept him going, just like my fantasy of getting “in” with a married man kept me going for so long. As a result, real relationships pale; seem too messy, complicated, and *gasp* two-sided.
My ex went even beyond consuming / being an avid follower of porn actresses. He made/collected his own porn, with the various girls he slept with / had relationships with. He had a hard drive full of naked pictures of all his exes (dating back to when he was 20 — he’s now 41). Some were just naked pictures of his exes, others were much worse: them performing oral sex on him, etc. The collection also included videos he had taken. And some of the pictures/videos were captured while the exes were naked and asleep, so they probably were not even aware he was taking pictures of them. Unfortunately, I also sent him explicit pictures of myself, thinking (!) that it would help keep the romance/sexual chemistry going, since we were long-distance for most of the ‘relationship.’ Anyway, stupid me. He was only adding me to his ever-expanding collection of his very own porn actresses. Scary. I even kept sending him pictures of myself after I found out he had been keeping that collection of naked pics of his exes. My my, how the mighty fall. I thought I would be different than his exes, that I would be a “keeper” and that I’d never find myself in a situation where I’d be yet another ex he had taken pics of. He even showed me naked pics of his exes so I am sure he will be showing my pics to the next woman who falls to his charming personality. Not to mention, god knows where he has posted those pictures. Knowing what a sicko he is, I would not be surprised if he posts those pictures on amateur porn sites or something like that. Or uses them to blackmail exes. Scary, sick, pathetic. I don’t want to have anything to do with him. I don’t even care at this point if he threatens to post those pictures online. I will not be blackmailed into talking to this perverted man. I don’t know what’s worse: a man who keeps exes’ naked pictures to routinely look at and feel proud of himself for his conquests, or a man who keeps exes’ naked pictures to then blackmail them at any point. Ladies, be careful about sending pictures to boyfriends, even and especially if you are long-distance with a bf/partner. It’s totally not worth it. A man who is sexually interested in you will remain so irrespective of the distance. Do not go on a people-pleasing spree and send out your naked pictures, and always make sure that your bf is not secretly taking pictures of you while you are sleeping. Mine even showed his co-workers explicit pictures of me. I am sure his co-workers respect him so much now. Yeah. I don’t think he realizes that most people think this is disgusting behavior and utterly disrespectful. But he views it as a trophy and likes showing off his conquests to people. This is why I am convinced my ex was a through and through narcissist even though no, he was not officially diagnosed as such by a professional, and I am not a mental health professional either.
Oh, ouch! I did that, too, at the height of the affair with the exMM. I was careful to never include my face in a picture, but, still, it makes me feel very vulnerable knowing that I did that. One of many ways in which I exercised poor judgment in an attempt to please him. I just hope, with the passing of time, that you are able to get to a place where you think, “that was the past. No point in judging it. I just know that I have no interest in acting that way again.” It’s definitely good that you aren’t actively involved anymore. As I was saying above, I think that the analogs between the fantasy world of the Porn-addict and of the Dreamer-person are strong. Its easier to judge the porn-addict, but we dreamers (and those recovering) could get just as lost as they were. One day, none of this will matter to us, respectively, when we live our lives in teh present, in the real, with intention. One day at a time!
I’m sorry you went through your own heartache/headache. I think that more and more people (men and women, alike) are commitment phobic, in part, because the modern world is cast as full of disposable options. This has surely been discussed to the hilt here on BR. Its up to us to say that we’ve had enough. I know that for me, as much as I’ve cried tears over the way emotionally unavailable people have treated me, I, too, have kept them all as options. Is someone in my life getting to “real” with me? I’ve often turned and stoked contact with someone EU to make me feel better. It always bits me on the ass. I’m doing a better job catching myself on that one.
Oh my GAWD, Natalie! It’s like you’re reading my diary. LOL. Even though I know that I have Florence Nightingale tendencies, I sometimes still catch myself being too giving with EUMs (giving little gifts, cooking for them, etc.), in hopes that, somehow, they’ll turn around and think, “Wow, she’s such a nice, sweet, smart, beautiful, easy-going girl! Why wouldn’t I commit to her?”
Instead, the last EUM I dated was a bit suspicious, because, of course, he was not worthy of me and did not have much to offer, and so always questioned why I was “so nice” to him. After three months, he has pulled a classic “fade away” and, instead of going into the wide blue yonder after him, or feeling devastated, I’m counting my blessings and flushing the handle. See? I’m learning! 😉
Wow, this post really spoke to me and for the first time I could see myself in a healthy relationship.
You are right that I don’t have to be a slave to another who is on their throne- but this has been my pattern. I am actually looking forward to getting to a place where I have the confidence to voice my concerns and dislikes so that I am equal in a relationship.
Yay to a positive future!
Amazing post!! Thank you for sharing your intel on these assclowns and EUMs. I just got out of a whirlwind romance with someone who fast forward and future faked the entire relationship. My gut feeling was screaming “you are not interested! Not your type!” but because I allowed him to bend over and fart a whole lot of hot air in my life, I eventually gave him a chance and became a doormat for someone who made me feel like the center of his universe only during the chase phase. The minute I “checked into” the relationship, was the minute he “checked out.” Now, after reading this post and many others, I realize that it wasn’t something I said that made him change, it was the fact that he revealed who he was as did I. I checked in by losing myself and failed to love myself first. I thought that by shaping my needs and become a doormat to fit hit his very limited box if you will, I was being a great girlfriend and reciprocating for someone who did a lot of talking with little to no action. After getting fed up shady behavior, I finally confronted him and he had no choice but to fess up and admit that he “wasn’t over his ex,” “we moved fast,” “couldn’t make a decision about working it out,” said I was an “amazing woman but his mind was clouded” and that “he wanted to be with me but couldn’t deliver.” I did all of that contortion for NOTHING! It’s not worth it ladies. When someone can’t meet you half way and put both feet in, RUN!!! Being nice, a model girlfriend, satisfying his needs but putting your needs aside in fear of being “needy” for someone who is only capable of giving crumbs and pretends they give out a loaf means that something is NOT right. Thanks, Natalie!!’
I am the biggest Florence Nightingale there ever was. lol. I “sacrificed” so much for the AC narc ex in the year that we were together. Drained myself for him. Did his laundry, did his ironing, washed the dishes, he even demanded that I cook for him and go and buy shitloads of food, and bring it back home, and complained that he didn’t like the idea of me going there every day to buy the day’s supply of food. I don’t have a car, so there’s a limit to the amount of food I can carry when walking back from the supermarket. I asked him if he could at least come with me, but he refused to, but still demanded/expected that I bring in enough food in one go, that would last us both a week. And no questions as to who was going to pay for that either, of course. And he wasn’t even living with me. In fact, he wasn’t even living in my country, just visiting every now and then for business, and one time (for 2 weeks), to see me (more like, because he thought he’d give his threesome fantasy one last chance with me — he had been pressuring me to do a threesome with a woman). I went even further, and thought I could show my love for him by buying him a $150 present on his birthday, barely 2 months after we had met (don’t get me wrong, it wasn’t just a bribe, I generally love getting people presents — in fact, I have trouble accepting presents from people because it makes me feel like I owe them something now, but have no problem giving presents). What a big f*cking waste, and more importantly, what a wrong way to go about it. I was the biggest doormat there ever was. It got worse over the months. The last time he visited me, for 2 weeks (he was on vacation), he even went so far as to yell at me and scold me in public, kept telling me I was making him nervous because I mentioned some problem I was having with my bank, and told me I wasn’t taking good care of him. I should’ve kicked him out then and there, and told him to find a maid, but I didn’t want to be a bitch and leave him stranded in a foreign country with nowhere to go (though he had enough hotel points to stay in a hotel for free for over a week). Then, the icing on the cake, me discovering pictures of his Thai prostitute-gf on his phone, with whom he had cheated barely a month after I had given him that $150 birthday present. And then confronting him about it, only for him to turn it into a “how dare you snoop on me, I lost all trust in you, I can’t do this anymore if you’re going to snoop on me” show. I want to slap myself so hard every time I remember all the Florence Nightingale-ing I did for him, to make myself indispensable to him, to make sure that he wouldn’t leave. In the end, it was all about my insecurity and my fear of vulnerability. I wanted to “guarantee” that he wouldn’t leave me and this was the “best” way I knew how to achieve that. UGH UGH UGH! Never again. At least I hope not. I am learning and working on myself. I am also avoiding getting into relationships or pseudo-relationships. And I have decided I have had enough of being a doormat, and am so embarrassed about my previous behavior, that I don’t even want to see/hear from/contact the AC ex again. EVER. That, and the fact that he took and took and took and demanded some more, and disrespected me some more, and then told me it wasn’t working for him, as soon as he got bored or felt strong / desired enough to stand on his own. No place for people like that in my life.
Lara,
I hope you will NEVER, EVER go back to that devil incarnate. He was unbelievably abusive to you. It will never be any different with him because he saw how horribly he could treat you and you still took it and stayed. Don’t give him another chance to hurt you any more. NC forever.
We have all been there. When you put a guy on a pedestal you are in trouble. I think back on those days and tell myself WOW I am soo glad that is over. Once you do this you will WAKE UP and realize – love yourself first, speak your mind and get what you need or tell them to F – Off!!!! Case closed!
I was in a relationship with this kind of girl for 3.5 years. It was bad for both of us. I didn’t value her, she didn’t value herself. I felt obligated to be with her because of all she did for me, which ultimately negated my being with her of my own free will. It was a bad dynamic for both of us, and I broke up with her last Thanksgiving. By Christmas she moved in with the next guy. Co-Dependency issues? I think so. During the relationship I was the one who blew hot and cold, and broke up with her umpteen times, so I felt like the bad guy. After the breakup she did a lot of shady stuff like tell my kids all about her new guy (which got back to me), and actually took my kids out with new guy without asking me. I lost my marbles and cut her off completely.
I still miss her from time to time despite the horrible dynamics, but I know who she is, and who I am, and neither of us will change to be what the other needs. I’ve been gaining a lot of insight from Baggage Reclaim. It’s helped me understand my own need for validation, which ultimately helped me stop pining for her long after the breakup. Thanks Natalie, you’ve been a great help!
Nat
I too learned to “read” the tension level in a room prior to entering. Rather than go into pleasing mode, I’d clear out, find something else to do. This was also a valuable skill to have as a grad student as my advisor was prone to random screaming outbursts. I actually initiated an alert system when this as swipe was on the war path. Funny, a lot of other relationship blogs actually encourage women to be pleasing doormats and that we older dames cannot get our man because we don’t bake cookies nor dress in trashy lingerie. One thing I have never had a problem with; don’t pull your weight and you are outta my life post haste. Tired of do nothing deadbeats thinking we owe them a life, tired of men who are emotionally absent. Very true; sometimes nothing will ever be enough. True for the running coach who treated me with utter contempt all summer, true for the incredibly hot fellow athlete who conveniently forgot he had a girlfriend, also for the AC. Some people just hate us and there’s not a damn thing we can do about it.
Great post, Natalie! Just one thing to add: What if after all the over-giving and losing ones self-respect he still loses interest? Then you feel even worse.
I have seen it a number of times: If you play doormat at some point people will NOT appreciate it any more. Either because they resent being given the dominating / using role (often if they are not really vile people but rather afraid of conflict or too lazy to say no) or because they lose their respect for you (there is nothing sexy in a doormat). And somtimes even for the manipulative assclown users it just get’s boring.
So being a doormat is never a good way to keep the relationship! Short term “gain” but even more pain.
Great post Nat!
Being a people pleaser is a sure fire way to end up alone, misused, abused, and brokenhearted. Women who let a man know right from the start–and demonstrate by their behavior–that they will not put up with any bullsh*t., are the ones who come out ahead. These women realize that the only one whom they need to please is themselves.
Since reading Nat’s blog, I have become a smarter person; and can now spot bullsh*t 500 feet away, in the dark, while standing within a crowd of several hundred people, with my back turned. Ha!
The impact of an insult is in direct proportion to your sense of self. If you feel amazing about yourself, nothing anyone else says (or does) will change your mind. If you stand on shaky ground, you will get knocked down time and time again.
I’ve been thinking about this type of dynamic for a while.
A little while ago, I had a flirtation with ‘a catch’ – all the girls want to be with him. We never gelled – mostly, I suspect, because I wouldn’t just bend my will or my social calendar to be available when he was available (which was often on short notice, or just turning up somewhere that he knew I would be and expecting me to go with his flow).
Later I got turfed for a new woman. I wondered: what does she have that I don’t? They moved in together: how did she get that far with him? Without knowing the ins and outs of their relationship as I don’t really have anything to do with him anymore and, given that I heard she had to move to the other side of the country to be with him – I suspect that it’s her ability to put everything in her life as second to ‘the relationship’ and to him.
Relationships are great – I’d love to be in one again, but my life does not revolve around being in one or being with a partner.
I’d love to be wrong about him and her but I suspect that I am not. And, it is a waste of my energy to worry about these things but sometimes I just wonder at how I can possibly still be single? I am a catch! But, I am time poor between studying and working and I think this is probably the issue. I console myself by remembering that it won’t be this way forever…
This is such a timely post for me! I have just gotten back into the dating scene this summer. And what a challenge for me. But the coolest thing is I am flushing men!!! Where at one time I would try to fit what they wanted… Or fix them. or nurse maid them…. I am currently dating a guy, no sex yet, both of our choices, because it means more than just sex to both of us, we talk and make ourselves vulnerable, we have both gotten off the dating sites, he before me, without even saying anything, to me, said he didn’t want to appear controlling. I just joined a healthclub, do things with my friends. I sometimes, want to just pinch myself, to see if I’m awake.. So I have a life, that I’m not giving up but fitting him into it. I have my moments, because I just had court two weeks ago, for the two domestic violence charges against the ex EUM/AC, who has been stalking me since April. And that’s over, he has two years no contact attached to his probation. So I can become a little hypervigilant, start to compare, and then start some self talk, so that I don’t push him away, because of the last guy. But this is feeling healthy!
Take a deep breath. Go slow. If he’s going to be around for the long haul, he will be there next Tuesday….do you get me? Meaning do things besides dating him. Take a five day break, see what happens. Is he cool with it?
Sometimes we think we are not rushing things, but we are. I gotta admit, I don’t like the “didn’t want to appear controlling” line. I would not interpret that positively…..but I am a little sensitive about those things.
Emerlydeyez congrats on your life changes.I am a work in progress but I cannot say the same for myself.
This is timely. I have just changed my hairdesser and lost not much of a friend. She is s single Mum and does me as a mobile. However she cancelled our last planned meet up as her son was ill, never re-scheduled and has done this with appointments as well. I have been accommodating but this time I just thought forget it. She knew my mum was in hospital and never even responded to that. Coupled with not getting my hair styled even though it was cut these are two different things I’d had enough. She has time to chase a man and for other people but not me even as a client. She knew I wasn’t happy with my cuts and she was always dashing around. I sympathise with her situation being a single Mum but need reliability. So I have told her that I’m going elsewhere with my custom and whilst I’ll pay more it is worth it to get a decent style. She wasn’t even a good friend and I thought this is never going to work as I am being taken advantage of and this time she really crossed my boundaries. So I called it and it is her loss financially. She did respond but I didn’t even read the text (yes it is always text with her) and am now no contact having deleted all her numbers. She is a very emotionally unavailable woman and she knew that I don’t take being messed around but didn’t take heed. Whenever I have had to chase up a cancelled appointment she has always been “busy”. Yes so am I….. sorting my life out!
Natalie, you mentioned that your hair is shorter than ever. You are an attractive woman. Please go to a stylist and let her give you a fab style. It’s worth it. I’ve been doing my own for awhile but ran into a girlfriend in the supermarket whose hair looks really great, so I’m going to check out her hairdresser. It’ll cost me more but at my age I want to look the best I possibly can, along with exercise and healthy diet. Sounds like you’ve had quite a wonderful vacation with Em and your family.
Its interesting – I never ever would have described myself as a people pleaser and yet.. In the relationship I was in my late 20s, for 3 years, I always phoned him to arrange to meet, I always initiated in bed. He seemed so passive and sometimes I used to wonder if I stopped phoning would he EVER phone me? Would that be the end? Of course that is exactly what I should have done, let him have the space to take action, or not. I just couldn’t face the possibility of what I might find out – that he just wasn’t really very interested. When I decided to emigrate we never even really had a breakup talk. His friends said he was devastated, but he kept his feelings well hidden from me.
Then with the husband, I was from the beginning in a parental role, making arrangements, feeling responsible for his happiness as though he were a child, and yet also frightened of his disapproval and unsatisfied by his lack of understanding, care and empathy. If I was ill, or upset about problems at work, he was uncaring and hostile,because it was my role to be the carer and his to receive care. I would have to beg for a cup of tea or an aspirin and he wouldn’t set foot upstairs all day if I had flu. And I still feel angry and bitter about how he behaved during and after the long and difficult labour I had for my second child, and the cruel things he said about my appearance and how disgusting I had been. 🙁
Wish he’d never been there.
If I ever have another relationship, I would want something truly mutual, where each is able to show love and care and support to the other as may be needed.
Mymble,
I felt a pang of my past when I read your comment about your husband and how he treated you. I remember my ex treating me the same way. These guys are low life forms. They look for the part of us that is most tender and go for blood. Why? Because they lack character and they are small. Hurting us makes them feel some kind of power so they can stop feeling so small. Coward ego’s. It’s sick and predatory. Those kind of hurts stick to our bones for a while don’t they? It’s been three years since I ended it with this guy and I no longer feel that raw hurt, but the lasting feeling of being treated that way turned into walls. I’m so sorry that you endured that kind of bull shit. Like you, I won’t participate in a relationship again unless it’s mutual and healthy. My walls may interfere with that, but I’m working on softening the armor and learning balance.
My ex AC used to treat me like this as well, I had a very badly infected finger and had to get intravenous antibiotics, one night it took a bit longer to get and apparently I was a c__t for making him wait..you know what when I read what I have written it makes me wonder what the hell was I doing putting my hand back in the fire even just for one night!!
Sandy,
Sometimes we lose our way. We pick up the pieces and find our way back, one little step at a time. I too wonder why I was so blind, but mostly why I was so unkind to myself by stepping into quicksand over and over. Live and learn. Forgive too, yourself first.
Mymble and Selkie,
I’m so sorry for the hurt and pervasive pain you both have experienced with deviant men. Even long after you’ve recovered, as in my case, the memory remains fresh in your mind of how you were made to feel at that time. So incredibly painful. Yes, the more they hurt you, the more powerful they feel. That’s just SICK. But, I often think, you can beat a dog down (one of the most loyal, forgiving creatures around) for only so long and sooner or later he will bite. We are not dogs! Continue strong in your recovery and self renewal, both of you.
Thanks Tink. It helps to hear all the women here who have kept moving forward. I remember now days to be grateful for what I have in my life….first being the peace I now live in. I can reflect back with clarity and find the lesson in it. It helped me to better know myself.
Mymble my husband (now separated) is similar. When I was pregnant I had all friends at work saying how amazing I looked at yet I felt like I could have fallen down the stairs & he wouldn’t notice. You know when someone sees you need a hand and offers without u having to ask …..he seemed oblivious to that caring nature of people. It’s like I had to spell everything out & then he would do something but it got tedious. On top of that he was a porn addict. The peace I feel now without him around is profound. I really became a doormat in our relationship walking on eggshells& trying to make things good at the sake of my pride & happiness. It wasn’t worth it.
Mymble
“If I ever have another relationship, I would want something truly mutual, where each is able to show love and care and support to the other as may be needed.”
I am with you there….also an empathic relationship which is engaged and respectful and where each person has insight. It deeply saddens me that I never had that although I constantly tried to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear, as they say. It was a waste of time.
I wouldn’t have described myself as a people pleaser either because it seemed I WAS always trying to talk about what bothered me and was so often frustrated, anxious and upset. I see that I was a “placator” when my needs weren’t met because I would become so anxious about the ensuing conflict and all the games my ex would play. When distressing things happened to me my ex just turned a cold shoulder or said he could empathize because he “didn’t feel the same way.” His lack of emotional engagement in the marriage made me feel alone and anxious. I people pleased way more than I realized.
And dismissed the neglect/cruelty I experienced by feeling sorry for HIM!
He set the tone for the relationship by his “non-involvement” and so he was the driver although he “let me” think I was which made me easy to criticize and even to criticize myself.
I always put such stock in him doing the vaccuming and “tidying up.” He was pretty good at that. This was a way of him showing himself and me that he was a really nice guy and didn’t deserve to be asked for more in the relationship or to deal with my distress.
I hate to think I traded my soul for a clean floor in the kitchen. I never wanted that and it starved me. Now that we are living in separate parts of the house I see his over obsession with tidiness as if he doesn’t exist in the rooms he dwells in. Whereas my space is full of colour, activity, books, music, interests, light and flowers.
Espresso
Funnily enough the soon to be x husband is very handy with a vacuum cleaner and dishcloth and brandished them as evidence of his moral superiority. He would often say he did EVERYTHING round the house (oh if only) and I did NOTHING – not true – and that if I weren’t so inadequate I should be doing it all. Although I worked full time and he worked either part time or not at all.
Funny thing was he would get really angry if I did have a big cleanup because that meant his moral high ground was under threat. Oh goodness I can’t be bothered with all the drama.
He never ever cleaned the bathroom though. Or dusted anything.
I am a people please, with my kids, with my work, with the ex husband and with the ex AC.
My kids get most things done for them, I tend not to nag I just get up and do what needs doing. At work I take on other peoples loads to help them out if required even though I have my own work to do, my ex-husband used to come home to everything being done, housework, lawns, gardens (he worked and I was staying home with the kids) so I always thought that it balanced itself out.
Now the ex AC totally different matter, I worked all week and helped him out with his job in the weekend, no pay, just because I loved him. Being self employed he had plenty of time to do personal jobs if needed but I would spend my lunch times doing these, I cooked, cleaned, washed his clothes not only at my place but also at his.
I helped with hiw lawns but he wouldn’t do mine…I put my hand in the fire again recently just for the one night, I ended up buying the drinks, cooked the meal, cooked him breakfast and washed and dried his only pair of underwear he had with him.
It was while I was cooking his breakfast and found myself stressing out about the fact I hadn’t quite heated his plate up before dishing it up (he used to get angry if I didn’t)that I wondered what the hell was I doing this again for? I still have no answer to that question but I have picked myself up, dusted myself off and I have nicely asked him not to contact me anymore…see how this goes yet again.
Sandy, more than a people pleaser it sounds like you´re a born mom or caretaker! Wouldn´t it help if you´d turn your attention to those who really need it? I´m thinking about volunteering for some good cause, or helping out at an animal shelter or cooking for the homeless or whatever. That way, you´ll be doing something useful and at the same time teaching your kids and romantic partners that they can do their own stuff themselves.
Lilia,
I think what I do is useful and to be honest where would I find the time to volunteer lol but thanks.
Sandy, and what did he do for you in exchange for this royal treatment?
Lol treated me like crap! I wonder where my head was at to be honest.
Sandy-
“My kids get most things done for them, I tend not to nag I just get up and do what needs doing.”
You are hurting your children more than you’re helping them. I had a mom who did everything for me because it was easy, too time-consuming to teach me and she was a people-pleaser. Guess what? I’m in my 40’s, can’t cook, have very poor decision-making and problem-solving skills, rely on others to tell me what supermarkets offer the best deals, etc. This is stuff that adults do without help. You are hurting your kids in the name of “helping”. You are raising them to be dependent and they are going to resent you for it and will choose controlling people because they are powerless to make their own decisions as they won’t have the skills to make or own their choices.
Take offense if you choose but it’s unjust that children must suffer long-term effects of their parents’ poor life skill teaching.
Rosie, I don’t take offense at all, I should clarify that they aren’t really young kids, 17 and 20 and they seem to be doing okay..maybe I do do a little too much for them but that’s how I am, but my son and daughter can cook, they both clean and my daughter is very independent, I meant more along the lines that if my sons room needs cleaning I will do it, or my daughter has some washing I will throw it in with mine but when it comes to their decisions that is something they work out themselves and if they want advice they ask me.
Sure they aren’t as independent as I was at 17 but my mum threw me out of home so it was a matter of sink or swim
Thank you for clarifying, Sandy. 🙂
I’m not a parent so I always run the risk of parents’ ire and haughty attitudes when I stand up for children. I’ve worked with children from newborns to 19 year-olds so I’m experienced. Bad parenting (which includes how parents conduct their romantic lives) is such a sore spot with me, especially when there are so many free resources out there for parents! There really are no excuses for child neglect (in its various forms).
Rant is not directed at you, Sandy, sorry, and rant is now over. [Insert embarrassed emoticon here.]
Rosie,
Excellent advice to Sandy. So true. I’m lucky because my one daughter who grow really getting to know her father was “born independent”. She got yher self a job at the hospital at age 15, and has been working ever since. I look at my gorlfriend who has two grown daughters. They are 22 and 25. She recently rented a lovely brand, new 3 bedroom apartment. Don’t you know the daughters each want the other two bedrooms. So now, with all that space, there goes her office and most importantly her guest room. it seems to me that they never learned independence and now when they should be, she’s still taking care of them. And even worse, or funnier, depending on how you look at it, she is getting remarried next year and expecting to move into a house with her now fiance. I asked her what happens with her daughters and she says “Oh, they’ll be on their own by then”. Hahaha, yeah, right. 2014 is right around the corner. Better her than me.
Being aware and helpful is one thing but I know I went far beyond that with the ex.
It’s funny how one little thing stands out: toward the end, she told me (on the phone) she had had a flat tire at home. I was all ready to go over and help her, but no, she got the Mm neighbor to help. And I happen to know he likes her– alot. It’s pretty obvious but she wouldn’t pursue that– no, she’ll just use his wanting to please to get her tire changed. I remember being pissed she asked him but then it hit me how much it was about having someone useful around. Utilitarian. As in USE-ful.
She had a handful of emergencies that required other people’s help. And I get that that happens, but it happened to her a lot more than most. So obvs now, I got to save the day. Suckered is more like it.
I have to admit I had a sense of entitlement not to have to jump through other hoops to keep someone. They should do for me, buy for me, yada yada but…I will admit I knew sex with me kept them bound to me. I enjoyed it as much, if not more, but at a certain point, especially with the AC, the playing field was no longer level and I was accepting crumbs We were both getting something we wanted, but somehow I was being devalued in the process because I stopped getting the rest of what had previously been on offer… Not to say I have a magic vagina or anything but, in retrospect, to the AC maybe I was just “putting out” while I thought we had equal interest. My worst regret now is that I ended up being a doormat/easy access to the AC because I kept being available to keep him in any capacity even when I knew I was being devalued. I hate to suggest that women are “used” for sex by men if everyone is having a good time, it is equal. I felt used because I found out he lied to me to keep me in his life for sex while he put on the Ritz for someone else as he once had for me.
I have been 15 months NC and I still feel so damaged by my betrayal of my own ability to value myself every bit as much as his betrayal of me.
I know this shouldn’t be a factor, but I was an athlete and hot and now I am older and post-menopausal and am struggling with my identity somewhat. I know I’m smart, engaging, etc., but I can see now how much I depended upon more my transient appeal to men.
FX- I know what you mean by relying on your transient appeal. I don’t think I’ve ever been “hot” but I thought I needed to be in order to be loved and if I were just skinnier, prettier, had more of a “bubble butt”, etc. then I would have a boyfriend who would love me. I would have been jealous of you for being hot as I would have seen it as your ticket to being loved. Yet, you got the men but not always love.
Funny, now that I’m older and am hit on by men whenever I take public transportation (even at 6:00 in the morning, not kidding), I see these beautiful young women dressed so scantily and I just want to tell them how all that sexual display is for nothing, that it’s sooo not that hard to get a guy’s sexual attention, lol! :p Mostly, I just wish I could tell these young women how they’re sexually objectifying themselves and how it’s working against them.
I disagree with you on one thing. I believe men can use women for sex even if it’s mutually enjoyed as his intentions are independent of me. I’m a mere object even if I’m a willing object and am using him also.
Yes! Turning the blinds exactly right for Mr. Insano! I tried that and it never worked anyway. Am so happy to be completely out of the misery.
What is it with ac and blinds? My ex was/is the same – and heated plates? That too…and collecting up every tiny leftover in the fridge that I would discover wrapped up in toxic dripping saran wrap with mould on it a few weeks later. He was so controlling about these things and made it all about “respect for him.” He has a great sense of entitlement which I never saw before. I was blind totally to this. It makes me sick to think of it now.
He was/is an expert at the little things but never did get the big picture.
BTW Nat,
Girls 2 is terrrrrrrible. The first season had it’s charm, but this second time around, WOWZA, what a frickin’ let down.
It’s just about a bunch of horny, unavailable people being horny and unavailable while painstakingly dragging the entire audience with it. No thanks! Spare yourself.
But DO watch Portlandia, specifically Seasons 1 and 3, as you won’t regret it.
Thanks for saving my life, and I look forward to the rest of your posts!
Ah, I did just watch the first episode and all episode trailers in all fairness. But it was baaaad. Couldn’t take anymore.
I like to watch reruns of Sex and the City – there is so much truth in those episodes about love and modern dating hell…
Amanda I do understand where u are coming from to an extent. Only because I feel like watching someone else’s life that u are trying to cut ties with seems as though it kinda slows u down from living yours, especially if its not a substantial amount of time gone by that u have not been envolved with that person. Really its due to the fact that you both may still have feelings for each other.
I know because I did this for a long time and I stopped a few mths ago.Checking facebook listening to his half ass stories of how he is single but his phone keeps ringing with one of the three baby mothers calling, and I’m wondering why if u are single is your car is in your baby mothers name and one of them or all call you at least 5 times a day.The text are usually never about the kids.
Sitting around collecting all that info about his life moving forward with him constanly stating that he’s single and never mentioning or showing me that we are in a relationship it all just kept me second guessing myself.
Second guessing me as a woman my looks, my intelligence, and wondering should I just jump into the circle because he had got to be a catch if its 3 or more women having babies and loving him.
I watched his life for yrs and not included and it drove me crazy broke me down.I understand where u are coming from u say its been 7 mths so u may be stronger than I am to be in contact woth your x now.I am not at that point and I don’t want to be at the point where I can be friends with my x because my situation is different maybr worse than yours.
I am all for growth and change moving on, good days, bad days falling off the wagon which I have done is why I have not been on this site.I can’t be friends with my x.I have a restraining order but I had sex with him a week ago.He was in his car by my house when I got off work a day before my bday, it was kind of coincidence he was with his friend who was seeing a mechanic that lives on my block.The friend for yrs has always used the same mechanic so it was understandable that I would wind up seeing his friend in my area along with the x who always helped him when his car was down they do favors like that for each other.I was lonley and burned out from kids and work my bday was the next day.So he spoke and he looked sad which I know is just bs he said happy bday and if he could get a hug so I accepted. He asked what would I be doing and it felt good to talk to him.
He asked if we could get a bday drink so I went alkng with him and we been together ever since.He took me to the spa on my bday he brung me lunch to work and has even paid one of my bills.I know he is who he is and I am going to wind up in deep s… quick.
Why am I entangeled with him again? He paid a 200 bill that I was so behind in without me asking him to do it, and he is spending time and money on me and the kids, has even sat and helped my son with homework yesterday and has brung his kids over on the weekend for movie night.This is fast and I’m guessing he has someone who maybe gave up on his crap and I’m who he chooses to pass time with for now.
He says he loves me but I keep replaying all the hurt and in some crazy why I feel like I deserve the nice things he’s been doing lately and that when I’m on track I will Nc again in another week for permanent.
It is the most idiotic thing but this is what I’ve been thinking of doing getting stuff accomplished and letting go for good, but its that thing still there called feelings that I have for him or maybe just confusion, maybe I don’t love him Idk what I’m doing at this point.
So I am in no postion to give advice to u Amanda, I just want u to know I know where u are coming from and this doesn’t usually have a happy ending.
Lacy,
You should listen to Tinkerbell, she may be very abrupt but boy does she tell it like it is, while I too am not as strong with him as I would like to be I am learning, each time I find myself just picking myself up faster, being more aware of his patterns, and his behaviour and the only way I have done this is to come on here, it’s an amazing place because we have all been there, just because he paid your bills doesn’t mean you owe him! Are you able to work at all, maybe part time, I am telling you, you will feel so much more independent being able to support yourself and your kids. First thing I did after being home with the kids for years and my husband supporting me was to upgrade my skills and get a job, I hated relying on the Domestic Purposes Benefit, something NZ has for single mums, I love the fact I pay for the food in the cupboard, the house, the fact that we are warm and comfortable, you don’t need a man to do that for you!
Sandy I do work but sometimes it feels ood to get extra mone and help if u fall behind on something.
My truth today is that I have not gotten over him completely even though to thoroughly think about the situation I may not even love him that way.He has beeen reaching out in different ways I have been nc and not accepting his attempts to reach me for a few mths.I have been feeling good about myself.
A few days before my bday I have had some trials and tribulations and I wind up seeing him a day before my bday.At this point I accepted his attempt to spend time together. We had a lovely time and have been around each other everyday.
He has stayed nights at my house and I guess we are back fwb and he is giving a lot more benefits than before so I think I would accept cause I feel he owes me anyway, when really I know I need to go about my buisness and move on.None of this is worth it the games he played with me.
My truth is he is continuously on my mind, I guess I haven’t worked hard enough to keep him out of my mind.I am lost and now thinking taking what he is giving is payment for all the pain, but my mind keeps wondering and waiting til something else hurtful happens.
So my truth is I’m hanging on to him accepting gifts and time sex and still loving him but waiting til he hurts me again.I want to be stronger but I’m not
Oh Lacy,
I know where you are coming from so I can’t even give you any advice, yet again I am hoping he stays out of my life as I too am not strong where he is concerned…when I don’t hear from him I feel better, I look better, I smile and laugh more, I enjoy my own company more, I go out with friends without feeling guilty..there is so much less stress that I wonder why I tried again but like you I think about him all the time and when he did call me I just caved.
But as I said I am picking myself up and dusting myself off again 🙂 and this time it isn’t as hard as it has been.
Hi ladies,
This is my first post for quite a while, I really had to get my act together after the disastrous affair and subsequent breakup with the MM/AC. It’s now been over 3 weeks NC which I initiated after embarrassing myself again by texting him and basically having him totally ignore me when I said something he didn’t want to hear. Eventually sent a final text telling him I wouldn’t be contacting him again, that it had taken too much of a toll on me health and sanity-wise and that was it.
I won’t lie, it hasn’t been an easy few weeks although I feel it is healing, I hate having to see him every day at work and today was particularly bad as he was right there at my break this afternoon, it took every bit of resolve I had but I did not speak to or look at him at all. Was so upset for the rest of the afternoon and all of this evening about it. Why is this AC still in my head, how long will it be before these thoughts just go away? I don’t have his number anymore (thank god) because I knew on nights like this I wouldn’t be able to stop myself texting him. I wanted so much to e-mail him today at work and physically had to prevent myself typing an e-mail to him.
I know he is a using, pathetic worm of a man so why can’t I just put him out of my thoughts entirely. I know I have come a long way in the last few weeks but I just want to forget I ever knew him, is that ever possible??
Messed Up Girl,
I hate to break it to you but you are in one of the worst situations a woman could be in. Not only is he a MM but you have to see him every day at work. I don’t know how you manage. But, because it is such an utterly distasteful place to find yourself, you have got to draw up all the strength you have to ignore him as much as possible and maintain your dignity at all costs. Please do not have anything to do with him if you can help it. If he comes into your space and you have no work connection between you to be dealt with, remove yourself and go somewhere else. Do you have a therapist to help you with this? It would be a worthwhile investment for you to have one, because it’s tough to be hit with all the ramifications of what went wrong when you have to look at him every day. IMO, a woman therapist is more understanding and able to relate to you as a woman better, but some people here are satisfied with a male. DO NOT text him for anything. You are NC? Is that really possible? If so, do it full on. There was no reason for you to text him to tell him he would not hear from you again. Just don’t let him hear from you period. You were giving him a last chance to declare his undying love. Don’t ever do it again. You may have to become very inventive to avoid him, such as staying away from the break room and cafeteria as much as possible until you are stronger. Go out for lunch or eat at your desk. When you really want to keep NC you’d be surprised how inventive you can be. I wish you all the luck in the world. And never, ever get involved with a coworker again.
Lol oh Tinkerbell, boy you say it like it is, I love reading your posts, I to wonder how she can be non contact at work, never ever shit in your own nest..sorry to be so blunt, but you just shouldn’t go there with a work mate.
Hi Sandy,
I applaud your efforts at trying to get over this man that you are still very much involved with. I know how extremely difficult it is. I can remember when just the sound of the exMM’s voice cast a spell on me. I remember waiting 8hrs on his ass to come over and see me. He was the busiest man on the planet. And, I remember the pain, the wondering how he could be so negligent and careless in the way he treated me. He just didn’t give a damn. I served the purpose of sex and sex only. This is the story of the MM and his OW. It is very sad. I guess I learned my lesson very well. This is why I am so painfully blunt. I KNOW THE PAIN all too well and it’s not in my nature to gently persuade. I get deeply involved in other people’s stories. Amanda said that I tell other people how it is with them. That’s because many times when I read the comments I recognize very quickly where they’re going, what train they are on. When you think about it, Sandy, are the stories we read VASTLY DIFFERENT from each other? These AC’s have got women well figured out. We’re so damned emotional, predictable and we love with total abandon.
Anyway, getting back to my point, I want to encourage you to stay on the path you are on. Keep him out of your life. You said you feel better when you don’t hear from him but you hope that he won’t contact you. Sandy, you know full well you can block him in every way if you want to. You’ve been A1 doormat and was not appreciated. The time for being “Miss Nice” is passed. Go NC. And, please don’t announce to him what you’re doing. That’s like announcing: “I’m tired of you pissing on me. This is your last chance. Are you going to straighten up?” He’s not an idiot. He will know. And he ain’t gonna change. Just be prepared to be strong as hell not to bend because he will expect it and it will be your doom. All the best to you, Hon. xx, Hugs, Tink. Keep me posted.
I also had to work with the ex, and it was not easy but I was determined to figure out every way possible to avoid him and you CAN do it if you put your mind to it. I made sure to avoid him physically throughout the building, the parking lot, the break room, etc. The only concession I made was if I had to pass him in the hall, and just ignoring him was too awkward and obvious to others, I would give a brief non-smiling nod, say “hello” and keep moving. He always looked so happy to see me, big smile, and wanted to make small talk like nothing had happened. Nothing doing! Never. If I had to discuss something about work, I figured out ways of doing 95% of it by email. The rare times I had to talk to him on the phone, I kept it all business and got off as soon as possible. If I was stuck in meetings with him or all-day trainings, I sat on the other side of the room, and avoided him during the breaks. If he went left, I went right. If he was the person speaking and I had to look at him, I would repeat to myself “Remember what he said, what he did and who he really is.” I managed to get through 14 months like this and then he finally retired. But by that time, it didn’t matter anymore.
One more thing. Do NOT bash him to any coworkers. Never tell them about what an ass he was and is. I never did this and now can hold my head high that I kept my dignity through the whole thing. Make a vow that you won’t let it affect your coworkers or your performance in a negative way. I kept my job and kept the respect of the staff. He’s gone, thank God and it’s done.
You can do this!
Wiser:
I applaud you! I loved your post so much I read it again and again, and I wanted to commend you on carrying yourself with such dignity and grace.
It took everything I had within to just get through my coworker situation, but I lived to tell the tale. The saga continues, but it’s so much easier now. Whenever that jerk comes in the office, I cringe at the sound of his voice. If he comes near my desk and tries to make small talk, I leave the room. I avoid the coffee maker, the copier, or wherever he may be standing. I don’t engage him in conversation because I seriously don’t understand how you can ostracize someone for three months and then try and make nice like nothing ever happened. WTH?? If I have to ask a work related question, I send him an email. If he asks me a question, usually it’s in person, so I take a deep breath before I respond. I say Good Morning, as I do to all my coworkers, but if he asks how I’m doing, I take it as a rhetorical question and don’t respond, cuz I know he doesn’t give a shit. I’ve run into him in the parking lot a couple of times and he’ll say ‘Whatcha doing?’ My response: “What are YOU doing?” And I keep it moving. I shouldn’t even offer that much. He has, in the last couple of months, offered empty compliments about my hairstyle or what I’m wearing, and depending on my mood and how the pseudo compliment is delivered, I will either say thank you or ignore it. Yesterday, he had the nerve to tell me, ‘You look really nice when you smile, and when you don’t … not so much. Sometimes when you give me the gas face, it makes me feel awkward’. I didn’t know how to respond to that, so I didn’t. I just scoffed and kept typing. What a total fuckwit. I was secretly glad to hear that I made him uncomfortable, because that’s nothing compared to what I went through.
My coworkers don’t know the sordid story (at least I didn’t tell them), but I’m sure they detected something was rotten in Denmark when he just stopped talking to me out of the blue. When they asked why he stopped talking to me, I would say “you have to ask him about his behavior because I don’t know.” Surely, that was alluding to a problem, but I was not about disclose details to anyone there. I will admit to responding at least twice to a query about him with “Don’t know, and don’t care.” So much for that. Now I’m faced with another year or more of dealing with him on the next project, but you know what, I’m good. I’m gonna be just fine. I am so over it now. I can continue ignoring him and although he isn’t close to retirement age, maybe something else will lead him away to other ventures. We can only hope. Thank you Wiser, for your strength, and for showing us how it should be done. You Rock!
Sandy,
re my previous reply to your people-pleasing comment: the thing is, what you describe is exactly what an aunt of mine has done all her life. And the results have been disastrous.
She made life so easy for her two daughters that they grew up to be a pair of completely useless rude spoiled brats. They barely finished high school, then got some schooling in jobs below their capabilities and soon became pregnant without even bothering to establish themselves first (also without being in a serious relationship).
So, in the end, my aunt is now
– paying for practically all their expenses
– babysitting her grandsons about 50% of the time
– buying groceries and cooking for these grown women
– also doing their laundry.
So yes, she is indispensable to them. They haven´t left her with an empty nest, they´ve managed to fill it to the brim. But they treat her very rudely, which after all is natural as she´s always behaved like a doormat.
Then, as for her husband, he has cheated on her since they were engaged. He even lived with an OW for a while when he was abroad for his work. But did she divorce him, hell, did her attitude even change? No, no, no, she behaves like a true geisha around him. Whenever she´s with him she´ll quietly sit by his side and agree with everything he says. Needless to say, he does anything he wants.
It is really sad, because deep down, my aunt is a very good hearted, generous person. She could´ve done some real good in this world. If only she´d have dared to say “no”, to put herself first once in a while, to focus on helping those who really need and deserve help. But she´s very stubborn in “serving” her family all the time, no matter what nonsense needs they come up with.
I just hope you don´t go down that road.
Wiser.
What a fantastic job! You put into practice every single thing I just told Messed Up. I hope she reads your post. That’s the way to do it. You kept your DIGNITY and kept it away from your co-workers. Kudos, and then some to you!
Thanks for the comments ladies, I’ve been feeling a good bit better today. I thankfully can avoid him in regards to anything work-wise as we work in different departments although we are on the same floor and it is an open-plan building so I have no choice but to see him every day.
I have done everything I can to avoid him, and there is only one very good friend at work who knows about us, I would never say anything to anyone else about it. NC has been full NC, nothing whatsoever, no e-mails, texts, conversations, if I see him I basically put my head down and walk in the opposite direction, and he pretty much does the same. Unfortunately it’s a different matter when I’m at home etc. and cannot get him out of my head. Knowing what a lying, using, manipulative scumbag he is this is where I draw a blank as to why this weasel should have any head-space at all, especially since we had sex only once and he is basically impotent. So what does that make me??? Worrying to say the least…
I have been seeing a therapist who has been fantastic, I have lots of affirmations which have helped a lot, I know it will take time and I’m trying to be patient with it and allow myself to heal. Thanks again for the advice ladies, and never again will I become involved with a co-worker or a MM, it simply is not worth it.
Mymble
Your post made my day! My ex and yours must be twins. My ex’s speciality is vaccumming cause his mum made him do it. He feels very entitled because he helps around the house but he actually doesn’t notice basic things – most of which I take care of. He tends to do things that are visible so he gets good feedback(from himself) and is seen a a really great guy.
Recently I had an argument with him about cleaning up the outside of the house before the realtor came for the assessment – it was covered with dusty cobwebs and dirt around the windows as well as swatches of green mould….things it was hard for me to do anything about because of my size (and things that have always bothered me). He immediately turned this back on me saying “it just can’t BE done, what do you EXPECT me to do clean the cobwebs every day???????
Because I no longer want to engage with him except on a business like level I now do everything myself and I can see that this bothers him because he no longer can take the moral high ground. He is extremely passive agressive – even though we agreed on things to share I am doing a huge part of the tasks and all of the major decision making. He denies this and I have heard him in the past talk to the children on the phone taking credit for something I initiated and fought with him over before he reluctantly agreed to do it. I really wish karma existed.
He is frequently obstructionist – creating more work for me because he won’t make decisions. He likes to have me make decisions so he can put extra work on me and not take any responsibility.
So I have the choice of entering into multiple conflicts with him or just remembering it will soon be over and to get on with it myself. You must be happy to have him out of the house at last.
really great post. i’m so frustrated with how i know i’m behaving in my ‘relationship’ with a probably EUM because for me being ‘indispensable’ translates to being the most sickly angelic version of myself with no needs, no boundaries of my own. he’s an actor (red flag right there?!) and often has auditions/callbacks come up late notice, but almost EVERY time (multiple times) we have had concrete plans (which involve me devoting most of my weekend, my only free time, to him), he cancels on the day or the day before. he’s not even that apologetic, he just accepts it as ‘the nature’ of his work and the one time i expressed disappointment he couldn’t empathise at all with why my saturday night was suddenly empty and why that might annoy me at such late notice. now i don’t even bother reacting, i just try and act ‘supportive’ of his acting even though it’s increasingly at the expense of any ‘relationship’ we have. i’m not even sure when i’ll next see him as he ‘might’ have rehearsals a few days next week, but doesnt know and doesnt seem bothered to find out. i keep wondering whether it really would be unreasonable to express my frustration, but he has told me his acting ‘saved his life and has to be a priority’ and that i shouldnt expect our plan-making to get any more concrete in future as a result.
i know we are heading for meltdown and i cant continue to be so supportive and accommodating but i dont want to lose him.
Dear Mam,
one of my russian friend in london broke up with my another friend (Indian) in Dec and immediately started daring someone else, rebound relationship! she got engaged to the new guy who is also in march and wedding in June and now in honeymoon in cyprus. this female friend and my previous friend were in a brilliant relationship and real but things got difficult over long distance and she broke up with him! they were real and amazing… noone knew about their relationship until engagement in march well I knew through my male friend… she invited very few people to their sudden wedding in june… she did not invite me though at one time we were close… now none of us told her that this is a rebound… and since they are married now we dont want to tell her… what should I do? the previous guy was way more robust, attractive, kinder, gentleman, friendlier and helpful! no offence i know the guy he is nice & helpful but he is immature and he is kinda lame with girls more like a typical IT guy! the previous one was really someone good and attractive and i saw huge positive changes in both of them, this guy and this relationship has done no growth for them! they are very over mushy and weird… smiling and holding hands too much, too many fb pics, same coloured jackets as if romeo & juliet reincarnated and born as them! whether would u propose someone within 2.5 months of dating? where they started dating the day after she broke up? when they dated for 2 years says that the guy is weak and desperate what do u think? and what would you do? what is the justification, smartness & bravery in a rebound relationship?
she kept the break up and the new relation so secret i came to know from my indian friend only everyone came to know when shewas engaged in march after break up in mid december and suddenly so many pictures from then till now too many pictures single girls on her profile can feel complex she is a very nice caring girl loving girl but immature and inexperienced (i met her few times and it clearly appeared so)
My Indian friend The Indian guy is an amazing guy and he is a very close friend of mine. He is 26. She is 26. She was a friend but she rarely talks with me. She got engaged widin 2 months of dating, she started dating the very next day of breaking up with her ex. She always telling her ex, mom n others she has to move on. In an obsession n misconception she started dating! And such was her vulnerable state, she wud hv dated anyone, it was this guy her friend from 3 months previously who asked her out, he is russian, single and they used to meet quite regularly at salsa! The guy is 31, however he is weird, he is a nice intelligent techie, but lame with girls. Petr think he is funny, cool and stylish. He is not at all also he is ugly. He is blindly following british culture n society, says he does not miss russia at all n loves uk! Am not surprised as he must have had a tough time having any gf in russia!Am angry on her for rebounding with him. Whoever fault it was, break up happens, face it n move on. She has a decent job in london, comes from a rich family like mine. Her parents wud do anything for her as she is a single child! She is with someone clearly below her league. She is so sad, hurt, frustrated that any validation from a single guy wud make her happy. When i asked her in jan n april what he was doing, she replied she is very busy with her work n bf ie she devotes all her time to her bf as if he saved her from burning train n nursed her back to health and as if she has no existence without him! Why does she crave love so much? She cud have waited and dated better men. It is easy to meet nice attractive single guy with high salary in uk. I have rarely men with these qualities n over 30! Such men over 30 are married or in a relationship in uk. However he was single! This new guy puts up so many pictures on fb and esp now with her. This overmushyness is very weird n funny! He gets 2/3 likes at max.He is under the illusion that he is awesome hence such a girl got into a serious relationship with him so quickly and said yes to his proposal so easily. He proposed to her with an ordinary flower bouquet at his house on a saturday morning! It is difficult to say yes to that kind of proposal. No wonder he had problem in having gf in a city like london! She thinks she is happy! They tell each other i luv u so many times unnecessarily! She keeps saying i have moved on and am happy where i am kind of brainwashing us and herself! he does look like a happy overexcited kid with her. He is 31 but often he behaves like 21-23!!! I met them accidentally at starbucks it was so mushy as if they met after a decade of separation and true love! I nicely greeted them and left the place. I dislike and disapprove this relationship, 2 of my friends hate it and stopped talking to her! I am unsure of meddling i prefer avoiding them! Anyway they seem to be oblivious of their surrounding and always busy showing off esp the guy, the girl is still shy! Best revenge for her would have been to be happy and single post break up!!!!
The Indian guy treated The Russian girl damn well, they were so good and
amazing together, learning, growing up, maturing, fighting together!
both are 27! this new guy is 31 but he acts like 26 and sometimes even
younger! what is the stupid obsession with so many pictures on FB? he
used to upload pictures on fb even before he met her and after they
have been engaged there have been too much pictures on his a/c! this
is lame & boyish! he is fun but not really funny. he is not open to
positive criticism, now that a girl like her has been in a serious
relationship so easily with her! he is over confident thinks he is so
funny, wise & amazing! he has become overconfident instead of
maturing! she has been kiddish off late chasing happiness! the new guy
was better before this relationship, he has become weird & over
confident now, his jokes or ideas have not improved either! he is more
of a lame IT guy!
but she does treat him well as he is a nice guy and she is above her
league, younger and much better compared to him! Hopefully they will
be happy together and he grows up and becomes mature and not over
confident, over bearing, over controlling and cocky and selfish like
many russian guys become which result to pain and suffering and
divorce for the females in russia!
with the Indian guy she used to be mature happy more than childish happy, with
the new guy it is more of childish happiness! she says this sentence
too often – I am so happy now, he makes me happy! as if she needs to
prove to the world and to herself that she is happy, they are very
happy together and their relationship is going great! through FB he
shows his happiness to the world, though he gets very few likes as he
is not like the Indian guy, certainly not a tom cruise or brad pitt!
I feel bad for The Russian girl, it appears she was desperate for love and
searching for one, and whoever gave her affection & admiration when
she was lonely, vulnerable, sad, stressed & needy! we ourselves should
save us and not other right? someone else should complement us and not
complete us! The Russian girl could have done much better for herself, could have
got a much better guy with visa in UK! it is so easy to date in UK and
come across good guys with proper jobs in UK! she had a decent job,
from a rich family from russia though she had very very few friends in
london to help her! why do so many young girls assume and become self
convinced that moving on means dating or saying yes to the new guy,
giving chances as if relationships are like training or jobs, something is not working try out a new one, instead of just facing the reality!
I have seen rebounds from close, they are over mushy, weird & bad mostly suffer! this is the 1st time I am seeing a rebound marriage, may be this is common in USA or hollywood or fashion industry where people are too busy with work, money & glamour to identify the real world!
after my amazing & real relationship broke off, I myself was in a rebound, my friends rescued me. I realized what huge mistake i was doing. i clearly remember how intense & fun the rebound was, it was for 3 months! but i was not being practical, real & mature! i am thankful to God & my friends for saving me from that rebound relationship! i was in rebound with an old female friend she herself was struggling big time with her long time bf! my problems were bad job, bad boss & break up! i was so so stupid n impractical to enter into that rebound. am glad it broke off without long term disaster. but my real relationships as well as this rebound taught me so much about relationships and females!
I have respect for all girls everywhere. Just because a girl is nice & cute, that does not mean I have to date her. Neither she nor me are doing anyone a favour by asking out! This is not charity! One night stands or FWB are different! A job is a necessity a girl is not. Marriage is something very very serious and for lifetime, I do not want to have the feeling that I am stuck in a serious relationship like it is a very tough or crappy job that I have to leave! Still things like this happen in good relationships and people break up! This is normal! However such things are abnormal in a marriage! Girls are human beings and not furniture or car or even job or training, that once bored or we have our experience we throw them out, unless it is casual and she knows it from the beginning! There are girls who know, understand and support one night stands or FWB!
Marriage is not a destination rather a journey, a commitment with another person to share life, to be there together for each other on good, bad and the ugly days fighting like a team, growing together and helping out each other and agreeing to disagreeging but sticking together!
So to be in a serious relationship/engaged to/marriage to that kind of girl, we must have a good compatibility and chemistry and we must belong to the same league and must be worthy of each other! It is most important that we both (more than our family & friends & relatives) think & feel we can be right for each other! However, my choice of girls are usually suitable for my family as well! I am not so strict on girls for long term & serious relationship like old Bengali people! But 40 years from now, I and my partner would be alive and also we have to spend maximum time together, others wont be with us. Hence it is most important that our individual opinions matter the most, secondary are family & friends and relatives come last. I strongly despise and disapprove rebound relationships! Sorry nothing can support it! It is bad, unfair & unhealthy in the long term!
Arjun
I am sorry your relationship broke up. I would block her on Facebook or better still deactivate your profile. Looking at her photos and reading her posts will make you miserable and prevent you from getting over her, which you must because she is married. Good luck
Hi all
Spent 15 years in on/off relationship and then he left me. Was free of him for 13 years but stupidly got involved again when he found me in Facebook 3 years ago. He said he changed but was just a better AC, and future faker. I could see what was happening but couldn’t face him leaving. Gave him thousands, put a roof over his head several times, helped him get work and gave him love despite lots if bad treatment, particularly threatening to leave, getting silent treatment etc. I would apologise even when it wasn’t my fault just to keep him. I had no boundaries until….. I found out he had been getting drugs from my troubled teenage niece who has only just turned 16! How bad is that! He is nearly 50! He was about to come and stay again and finally I said no and that he had crossed a line. As a result he is living on people’s couches and has moved away. I did the right thing but now he punishes me with silence. He has changed his number and didn’t call me for my birthday which was yesterday. I know I should be happy he is gone but it feels very devastating right now! Giving everything I did meant nothing to this AC. I hope I am strong enough to get back on my feet soon. I can’t quite believe how quickly he can ‘switch me off’ : it’s terrifying and leaves me feeling that the last 3 years were a complete waste. It feels hard to come back from. This site is great and you guys will I hope give me the strength to regain my sense of self and self respect.