I recognised recently that while of course the world has changed over the past seven years, what’s really changed in my life is that I look at things differently, namely me. Many of the people who were in my life back then are still in my life now, my parents are still crackerjacks, my childhood and my past are still the same, but I’ve evolved while still remaining me.
I look at the same things differently – I don’t put me at the centre of them.
It’s wonderful to observe and participate without making myself responsible for things that are outside of my control. I’m free and I appreciate it every day because it’s not too long ago that I felt burdened and if anything, I used to view myself with disdain and at times even contempt.
My daughter’s love the story A Squash and a Squeeze by Julia Donaldson, a tale of a woman who feels that her home is too small – “a squash and a squeeze”. She vents her frustrations to a “wise old man” who one by one sends in a procession of different farm animals that cause the house to be overcrowded and chaotic. “It was teeny for one, and it’s weeny for five” she laments, and then he suggests that she take them all out, to which she protests that she’ll be back where she started. Of course after she’s sent each animal packing, she appreciates the space and calm and eventually she’s back to the house she always had, only appreciating and valuing it.
This is what low self-esteem and not treating you with love, care, trust, and respect looks like – not appreciating who you are and not recognising that you’re good enough, and instead letting in a steady procession of people and experiences that bust your windows, vandalise, take advantage or even abuse, and ultimately end up leaving you feeling crowded out of yourself. When you let someone take over the controls of your life because you’ve designated them as ‘experts’ on you, it’s actually like looking in on yourself and wondering who the frick you are. When you think stuff like “I can’t believe this is who I’ve become” while watching yourself be that very person like an out of body experience, you know it’s gone too far and it’s time to press your eject button.
There is a temptation when you’re not happy inside, to find external solutions in the form of people, things, or even substances.
You think it’ll make you feel better and they often do, certainly in the short-term, but underneath it all, you still feel unhappy and often have to go to greater and greater lengths to feel good. That and you end up feeling crap for doing these things, so it just gets heaped onto your already overstuffed case full of guilt, shame, blame, rumination and the whole kit and kaboodle, which means you then want to get to escape it, which means you end up looking to those ‘solutions’ again. And round and round you go.
When a relationship that’s working against you ends, if you’re not yet at that point of recognising how much you need to love and care for yourself, when you get rid of the unruly folk in your house, you may feel resentful. “Why did I have to do the right thing and tell them to take a run and jump? Yes I did feel like crap but now they’re not here and I’m still left with this house [you] that I don’t like. I need a better and bigger house, or at least find me someone who I can hitch my wagon to and they can act like a big extension….”
Only you’re not likely to ask a wise old man – more like some fool off the street that smells an opportunity in your lack of self-care.
Relationships serve to teach you about yourself and they will keep serving you up the same lesson until you heed and apply it. Until you’re ready to see the same thing (you) differently, you’ll be having a “squash and a squeeze” or may even be near choking in your own home.
I spent most of my life from a very young age thinking about my inadequacies, thinking about a ‘feeling’ and then chasing it. I wanted to feel accepted, content, liked, loved, cared for, trusted, respected, appreciated, valued, worthy, attractive inside and out, hopeful, positive, and whole. I wanted to laugh without reserve, smile and have it meet my eyes (something I didn’t start doing until my late twenties), not be driven by fear, and essentially have someone think that actually, I’m some kinda special.
Well after going out on a search that culminated in me feeling the opposite of any of these things, I came back to base and it turned out, that after spending so much of my energy chasing these feelings, I was capable of creating these off my own steam.
It was me that needed to accept me, to feel content, to like, love, care for, trust, respect, appreciate, value and ultimately consider me worthwhile.
I’d had one hell of a house party with some rather shady guests that I thought would make my dreams come true. Putting them out, setting boundaries with myself and others which fixed my broken windows, meant that I could look at the person I’ve walked around with all this time and suddenly see her with fresh eyes.
Now look, there’s nothing wrong with wanting love, a relationship, and all of the attendant joys, but if you want them, recognise that certainly for a healthy relationship that isn’t going to leave you analysing the crap out of yourself and others, or feeling “not good enough” because of behaviour that detracts, self-esteem comes as part of the package deal. End of.
Stop fighting it, stop shortcutting it because you can try every other which way at it but ultimately the only way that you’re going to feel all of these things and appreciate them in someone else chipping them into a relationship, is to feel these things independently within yourself.
Love doesn’t just happen – we all have to put some effort into taking care of ourselves and if it’s not your natural disposition, initially you will have to work harder than others at it and face some uncomfortable stuff. But beyond it, is the love that’s there anyway. You just need to look at you differently and choose you day after day after day.
It’s good work and a worthwhile investment. Can you honestly, hand on heart with no equivocations, say that you like, love, care, trust, respect, appreciate, and value you? If you answer yes, do you have a life that by and large reflects this?
If you think someone else is going to come along and give you ‘everything’, it’s just too much to leave to chance, too much power to give away, and too much to expect from someone else, especially when you’re not doing it yourself. Show up loved, loving and equal.
Love from a positive place that’s rooted in you instead of ‘loving’ with a view to filling you up and making you whole.
Loving words that can come with a relationship, need the feelings of love and the communication of it through action. Love never involves settling for crumbs – along with seeing you differently, let crumbs be crumbs and stop selling you short.
Are you ready to look at you differently? Take the focus off ‘them’ and positively bring it back to you.
Oh and happy Valentine’s Day from me to you, love Nat xxx
Don’t forget to check out previous V-day posts.
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The post says it all, really. Thanks again, Natalie! xxx
Hi Natalie. I LOVVVVVEE U and your column. I wish my mother could had sat me down and broke it down like you are. I blame her for everything. I was born with an inate sense of values, boundaries, self esteem and all those good stuff. I loved myself. Even at a young age I new AC/UM/EUM all that. But my mother started destroying my sense of self calling me names such as evil, saying I think Im too good for men, basically making me desperate like her. I hated how my father treated us and her. I vowed never to be like her. She made all the wrong decisions with 6 children in tow. Disaster. But little did I know I was destined for her taste in man. My father. EUM. So in return I decided not to have any children and not to ever be married. I m now 40 years old and can honestly say I have not been in love. I have thought I was in love but no cigar. Anyway, yes I blame my mother for breaking me down and accusing me of having values and morals that obviously she did not understand. But now that I am grown and just left a 9 year relationship, I feel like I should be back responsible for all my feelings and own up to my own needs and wants. But I m learning myself again. I m liking myself again, its all because of you. U are reminding me again its ok to be smart and in charge and of my life.
Hi Katie
I had problems with my mum and I put a lot of blame on her.I then read ” The Mom Factor” by Dr Henry Cloud and Dr John Townsend and I see it through different eyes now .My relationship with my mum will never be perfect but I learned to stop fanning the flames and it became easier.Everytime she says something nasty to me because she is ” feeling bad about herself ” I try and think of her as a child sat on her door step in the dark waiting for her mum to return from the pub intoxicated.That is why she was/is so insecure and doesn’t feel good about herself.She had a bad childhood too.I spent 46 years trying to make her see sense .It is such a relief now I have put it behind me.
Katie I felt your pain in what you said about your mom. I’m sorry for your childhood but I hope you’ll take a good long look at your mom and try to figure out why she said/did what she did. She has a story just like we all do. Was she a drug user, abused, what is her story. The reason I say all that is holding on to resentment makes it tough to move forward. And understanding her would surely go a long way in your journey.
Could be a simple as when you were young with a sense of values, boundaries and self esteem she saw herself but then looked in the mirror and really saw herself and what she became and she was scared and sad and unfortunately took it out on you. Forgiveness is for us not for anyone else. Maybe its not to late to help her and in return you help yourself.
I wish you the best.
katie
forgiveness is your journey and your timing. For me, feeling though I SHOULD forgive but was another stick to beat mysef with.
I HAVE forgiven my mother recently but it took a long time to get there and it still hurts; it didn’t turn out to be the panacea after all. I’ve been happy but feeling vulnerable (nothing wrong with that per se) because I like a man for the first time in over 5 years, and the anxiety and doom has been creeping back in. On the plus side, these days I know what it is (a bad habit,/legacy) and what it isn’t (a sign that I’m less than other people, there’s something wrong with me or that the man is going to stick it to me).
Knowledge is power. It’s worth exploring your history and its leffect as it enables you to understand why you feel bad about yourself or feel unable to love/be loved and how to address that. It’s not the same as blaming your parents. I don’t expect anyone to “get” that who hasn’t been through the process themselves and popped out the other side. Forgiveness is helpful, no doubt about it, but in your own time. And it’s not the final stop. Beyond that you STILL have the ongoing work of loving yourself. And the pain can still resurface but does pass. I’ve been through it enough times to know that. And the small things help – a nice meal, a call to a friend, exercise. When you’re in the abyss and those things fail to help or you simply cannot do them, it may be time to get professional help (that’s a general comment, not aimed at you).
Finally, I will never understand why my mother did what she did. Occasionally, well-meaning friends of the family start broaching the subject and I stop them short. I don’t have to put myself in her shoes, I don’t have to know why. I was able to give up on that because I have five nieces and cannot fathom anyone being as cruel to them as my mother was to us. People are different, but FOR ME the answer is there is no answer and I am freed from searching.
I too have had a long journey in coming to terms with the relationship I had/have with my mum.
She didn’t physically abuse or call me names, she simply wasn’t avaialable. She didn’t see or hear what was going on with me right under her nose. I recall trying to tell her about my step dad coming on to me, she sent me away never asked another thing about it. She sent my step dad on holiday and when he returned he told me he was sorry and it was over, true for a week.
There are many other events in my life that my mum ignored and rationalised and made me out to be in the wrong. Thats a lot of mind f*****y for such a passive emotionally unavailable person.
I have forgiven her but only when I came to the conclusion she will never acknowledge the things that happened in my life and she will never turn into the mum I wanted.
I don’t see the point anymore being angry with her and nor do I see the point of blaming her anymore for the relationships in my life I had to conclude that I was responsible for my life and only I can change it as hard as it is.
Ps Katie I have never experienced love either not one single good and healthy relationship to report but its not too late.
@Grace: I’m not sure I’ll ever be able to forgive momster. Doesn’t forgiveness mean acknowleding the good in a person? The problem is, there is nothing good in her. I’ve read somewhere that if you take away the evil traits from a narcissist/psychopath, you’re left with… nothing, and I completely agree with that. What she did to me weren’t “mistakes”, they were… her. It’s what she’s all about. There is nothing else to be found.
I don’t feel any need to take revenge, or to punish her. I simply never want to interact with her anymore. NEVER. I wish I could save other people from her as well, but unfortunately this isn’t in my power.
For my relationship with her, I consider this the final stage. There is no better option.
Maybe one day I’ll be able to forgive God (do I believe in God? I think deep down I still do). At the moment, I’m insanely angry, because he/she (God) let me grow up with that monster. How could God do that to me? But I think I’ll get over it one day. I think the more progress I make, the more there will be to be grateful for.
So maybe I’ll be able to forgive one day… forgive God (is that blasphemy? I don’t think so).
No EllyB forgiving does not mean acknowledging the good in another person, its for you not them. Not forgiving makes you their prisoner because they still have a hold on you. You can forgive and just walk away knowing that by forgiving she can’t hurt you anymore. But by holding all that bitterness and anger inside you give her more power, she still holds all the cards. I hope you’ll take some time to read about what forgiveness really means and what forgiving can do for you.
As for forgiving God, God had nothing to do with it. He gave us all on earth freewill, we are not his mindless robots. Everyone of us has a choice as to how we will live our lives and interact with others. He told us how to love but he isn’t forcing any of us to follow his teachings. God didn’t do anything to you your mother did, she made her decisions and her choices.
I’m sorry to be so blunt, I do hope you find the peace and the joy you’re looking for. I’m rooting for you.
With due respect, I disagree. I’ve even googled “forgiving God”, and I’ve quickly found someone saying that many people who experienced evil feel the need to forgive God. I certainly do.
Of course, God doesn’t need our forgiveness, but we do. I also agree that there are many, many different theological views in the world, but that’s the one that rings true for me.
For decades, I hated God because I thought he created a narcissistic world, a world that was out there to torture and threaten me. This was certainly the way the world looked to me during my first 20 years!
As she isolated me from any other influence except her own and even claimed God to be on her side, I had came to that conclusion. I prayed to God as a child (I was very religious), but to no avail. That made me believe (back then) that God was really on her side, was really her best friend.
Of course, that’s not true, and it’s also true that God gave me power to change things, but only as an adult. I know some religious people say we should never be angry with God, but I am. Telling myself “it’s evil to be angry with God” wouldn’t change a thing. God gave me a free will and feelings. I can’t change my feelings, but only how I deal with them.
I know forgiveness means refraining from revenge, from wanting punishment and so on. I certainly don’t want to do any of that to my mother. She did what whe did, because she couldn’t to anything else. Maybe that is forgiveness already. What I don’t want is reconciliation, because given her personality, it would be cruelty towards myself. Countless times, she urged me to “forgive her”, only to go on with her abuse as if absolutely nothing had changed.
Part of my problem I guess is that I could always fall prey to a psychopath again. Of course, I can be vigilant when dating (thanks to NML!!!) and heed any red flag, but what if I become a very sick and helpless old lady one day and my nurse turns out to be a psychopath? Or what if a psychopathic dictator (like Hitler) takes over in my country and suddendly decides people like I need to be tortured and annihilated (for whatever reason)?
Sounds remote, but such things do happen. If they don’t happen to me, they will happen to someone else. I can barely live with the idea, but I have to.
For a while, I tried to make myself believe I had “everything under control” now but of course, it’s not true. When I met this evil headhunter recently, I tried to get things under control by saying “the right things”, which was, of course, impossible. I should have walked out (and luckily, I flushed him shortly afterwards). But what if I’d been that old lady and he had been my caretaker? Or what if I’d been his little child???
I have to come to terms with the fact that evil will always be possible. For a while, I tried to tell myself I’m making all this up, or maybe evil was just in my childhood and nowhere else, but deep down I always knew it’s not true. I have to come out of denial there too, because denial is painful in the long run.
Evil will always be somewhere in the world, and it’ll always be unspeakably horrible. I have to accept this (I think that’s what I mean with “forgiving God”), because otherwise I will never be able to enjoy the good things in life. It’s that easy. And that difficult.
EllyB
I take the love and forgiveness that God gives me and pass it onto her. It’s like – pass the parcel. I’ve got nothing to do with it. I don’t have enough virtue or strength in me.
Park the momster. Put yourself first, take care of yourself and be happy. The rest takes care of itself. There’s no need to force it.
As for God, rage away, he can take it.
Hi nat !
This pst def. made me smile. Just reminded me of where my head should be !
Thanks !
Thanks Nat! I’m on your mailing list so I read your advice every day. I am applying your lessons and although I am single, I feel it’s working really well. I am happily single. I am not ready for a relationship and I am fine with that, because I know that I am heading in the right direction and I know that I will attract the right man for me when I am truly ready. And better yet, if I don’t, then I know I will be happy anyway. My happiness no longer depends on a man. Right now I am focussing on myself first and my friendships. I have come to value my friends more than ever because I know that aside from the obvious blessings of friendship, having a good set of friends is going to help support any future romantic relationship. Thank you for helping me to find self love and self worth. Just wanted to show how much I appreciate your good work. Happy Valentines Day to you too!
This moved me to tears.
I was one of those people who tried to fill up, self medicate, sleep my way around, you name it – all in the name of wanting to feel and be loved.
I just wrote a letter to my 13-year-old self. What a homework (therapy) assignment! It helped me realize my views on Love and Making Love are skewed because of being raped at 13. The drugs, stripping, sleeping around were all a domino effect.
It’s not easy to re-wire my brain, but through therapy, I am learning to recognize my value and learn that it really is up to me.
I started stripping at age nineteen and continued on a downward spiral until I was nearly 30. I’ll be 44 this November, and I am just now GETTING IT. Quite a long time to finally look deep within myself.
Through reading your book and blog, attending ACA meetings and other forms of help along my journey to myself, I know I will get there.
Thank you and Happy Valentine’s Day to you and yours.
Hugs from California,
xxoo
Christine
@thatgalkiki
Dear Christine,
this post moved me to tears for the same reason, i was raped at 15 and have never really forgiven myself and thought I could not ask for a better relationship than the one I was in, since I was damaged goods. Oh, and the ways to hurt yourself by putting yourself out there again and again just to feel used.
I am sending you a big hug. I am in therapy too, it’s been two weeks and I told my therapist what happened to me as I was 15 today.
I am on my journey and I feel more peaceful than I have in a long time. I spent Valentine’s day with a friend and the evening with myself and it was beautiful.
We’ll get there! 🙂
Cookie from Germany
Cookie and Christine…
Big hugs to both of you..
hugs from me too Christine and Cookie x
Group hug all round!
Hugs to you, Cookie! Thank you so much for the comment on my comment. So happy you had a great Valentine’s Day. I was happy, alone and celebrated the fact that I am not settling. We WILL get there! xxoo
Christine
Hey Natalie. I just came back from the store after going out to get my OWN DAMN CHOCOLATE CANDY. Came back, hit my gmail and there’s this blog from you. Talk about timely. I’m feeling real good. Last night I went to my church’s Women’s Ministry meeting, had such a good time meeting and greeting and playing games that I’m still high off of that. They meet once monthly and I won’t be missing any meetings. I don’t know when I’ve felt this much peace and joy and not because of anyone else but Me. We need to just forget the AC’s and Eums, narcissists and psychos and do for OURSELVES. HAPPY YALENTINES DAY to us all.
Ooo – I’ve been ruminating on self-esteem issues a lot recently, so here are some of the rather disjointed conclusions that I’ve come to…
One of them is that, by the time I got pregnant, I was an accident waiting to happen and in my saner moments I’m relieved that I got my wake-up call in the nice form of my son, and not a nastier one. For the last three years or so, the universe (or my subconscious, take your pick) has been hitting me over the head and screaming “Woman, WAKE UP! Work out WHY you think that you’re not entitled to the same respect and consideration as everyone else in the world and SORT IT OUT!”
The annoying thing is that I’ve been aware of my issues with self-esteem for years and I’ve actually known the ‘solutions’ for a long time, I’ve just been dismissing them as fairly boring and hard work.
One of the problems/issues that I’ve had with it is that I actually don’t have that terrible a history (“who are you to have self-esteem issues? don’t be so bloody precious and self-obsessed”) – my parents are nice people and have been loving and thoughtful parents. It’s only recently that I’ve been able to look at parts of my upbringing and think “yeah, that was wrong” without feeling the need to blame them for it. They’ve had their own issues to deal with as well, and some of the things that they said and did weren’t right but they weren’t all about me either.
The other thing that I’ve struggled to realise but finally worked out is that sometimes the root causes aren’t that big or that significant – but things have snowballed. For example, with a bit of digging I can remember deciding (probably precipitated by a falling-out with friends and a total mis-reading of Enid Blyton) that the best way to deal with a disagreement was to apologise, whether I was in the wrong or not. I would’ve been about eight or nine, I think, which means that for OVER TWENTY YEARS I’ve been accepting the blame for things that.weren’t my fault. So really, the vast databank of empirical ‘evidence’ that I’m completely rubbish isn’t really – it’s just a lot of occasions where I let people blame me for things and they did, because it was easier than accepting the responsibility for themselves.
Sorting it out is interesting. It’s hard work and not always very pleasant but after years and years and years it finally feels like something that I have CONTROL OVER. I’ve had recurring attacks of serious social anxiety and periods of self-loathing over the years and I’ve always believed that it was just something random that I’d just have to live with… not any more. Not ever again.
Yoghurt,
I feel the same way. Why did I have all those self-esteem issues (and still kind of do) when I had a lovely upbringing with parents who treated me well, who cared so much about me? External factors, definitely. I mean, they made some mistakes, but who doesn’t?
Definitely the friend thing, where I was bullied into accepting fault for things that were clearly not my fault.
But now, examining my life is a hard thing to do. I don’t know why I am so unhappy here at this point, and I don’t think it’s the man thing. Actually, I feel in control of the man thing since I’ve started reading BR, because I’ve managed to turn down attractive but inappropriate partners at every step. Okay, so I’m still alone, but now I know that it’s because I don’t go out and make the effort, that there are other things in my life that are taking up my energy.
I’m thinking it’s the career thing right now, why I am so unhappy. I feel like I’ve been chasing my parent’s dream career for me for so long, and I’ve been stuck in school for so long. It’s nearing the end, so I feel like obviously I can’t back out now. But I don’t want to have this big important career! I want, honestly, a 9 to 5 job where I can go home after work and watch a film with my dog and not feel guilty for not studying. I feel like I’ve been questioning this for so long, and have been so uncomfortable here that I don’t know how to get out of it. I am very lucky that I have had this educational experience, but now I need to figure out what professional future is right for me without my parent’s input, and I will have to start sorting out my life without their financial support.
Baby steps, I guess. I have 4 more months left of law school. After that, we will see where I go…
Hi Jen
That sounds like a tough situation to be in to me and I think that to be approaching a point where you know you’ll have to say some version of “Thanks but no thanks” to your parents is a scary one. You have the right to live the life that you want, but on the other I guess that the prospect of ‘letting them down’ when you feel that you owe them so much is really confusing.
I know that with my parents, a lot of it was to do with the very strict Christian upbringing – being told that you’ll go to hell if you question the version of the world that you’re given is pretty frightening when you’re little. Feeling as though the love of your parents – and the extended ‘family’ of the church – is conditional to you taking on those beliefs and that lifestyle is also scary, especially when the church contains some rather unkind peers and some adults who very clearly had their own issues.
Even though I kicked against it later on I didn’t really deal with the fear or the sense that I was letting my parents down by not living a Christian life. Or wearing Christian clothes, having a nice Christian boyfriend or being particularly interested in nice Christian outdoor pursuits (is this a good time to say that I HATE potholing?) So I’ve used (crappy) relationships to take my mind off it and I’ve tried to amend for the fact that I’m having premarital sex (:O horrors!) by being super super loving and nice, no matter how I’m treated.
Ironically enough, now that I’ve finally faced those fears and starting questioning whether or not I actually believe or agree with it, I find that a) I don’t always but also that b) I’ve been labouring under some pretty strange misinterpretations for years, based on something that the seven-year-old me heard and applied wrongly. Incidentally, my parents have never been so supportive or so loving as when I found myself single and pregnant – that’s one thing that’s made me see how mistaken I’ve been about everything.
Even more ironically, now that I’ve got myself together I find that underneath the layers of fear and mistaken belief my faith is still sort of there, only thinking on it is far less panic-stricken these days.
Thank you Yoghurt. I think you make an excellent point, one that I know objectively but that thinking about subjectively is so hard–
I can’t live for what my parents want me to do. If I don’t like something, it’s up to me to say “no thanks”.
My family is slightly (very) different than yours on the religion front, in that we don’t believe in organized religion at all, and I definitely felt weird about that growing up but now I embrace it (well, there’s nothing really to embrace, which can be really easy)… however when it comes to intellectual things, such as law, literature, art… it’s almost like a religion for my family. There has always been a pressure to go to university for as long as humanly possible, get amazing grades, be a professional who works 7 days a week. Everyone who is accepted in my family does this, everyone reads competitively (though it’s unspoken) and at family dinners any kind of conversation that is not a discussion of world issues is considered petty.
It’s easy to complain, but I mostly appreciate this. However, I always have this nagging feeling of not being “good enough” for it, because I love celebrity gossip, pop music, soap operas, and cheesy chick-flicks, and that’s definitely not intellectual enough for them.
I don’t know though. I like being where I am because I like my friends, I love my family, but I don’t like what I’m doing, if that makes sense. I like the “law life-style” but I’m not a huge fan of the law itself. I know I need to hang in there for another few months, and then another year for bar school, and then another 6 months… but I don’t think I can. I think I’m going to hang in there a few more months and see how I feel after, if I want to pursue more of this or if I have had enough.
I have never really disappointed my parents in that way– giving up on an entire dream of theirs. Oh sure, I am the queen of bad grades, but I always pass. The thought makes me anxious frankly.
I have to say that eternal damnation almost sounds preferable to working a seven-day week!
When you think about letting your parents down, does it make you more or less anxious than the idea of working in a job that you don’t enjoy for the rest of your life? It sounds like you’re living with constant conflict and that must be really difficult.
I know that there are people on here that have lived through some truly awful childhoods on here, and I’m so grateful that I didn’t go through that. Having said that, I do think that being under constant pressure to live up to a set of expectations that don’t necessarily fit with your natural inclinations, personality and beliefs means living with a constant level of pressure and anxiety and that IS going to affect the way that you feel about yourself.
It’s hard feeling as though you aren’t loved for who you are by your parents, and it’s an immense stress pretending to be someone that you’re not to the people who know you best.
If you’re unaccustomed to conflict with your family, as well, then the prospect of it seems like the end of the world. I didn’t have any sort of teenaged ‘rebellion’ when I was 15/16 (mine was later, messier and didn’t ever seem to resolve itself) – and I do wonder if that process of breaking away from your parents’ control and becoming your own person whilst you’re young enough to get away with it isn’t healthier.
After I typed my screed last night I went to bed and lay awake for hours reliving a vivid and miserable loop of memories from my teenaged years in which I was always trying my hardest but never quite good enough (and had a hard time from my peers), and ended up in tears. This morning, though, I realised that I’m not the person that I was expected to be, but I think that maybe my parents prefer it that way -and I DEFINITELY do. The Me that I am now is wiser, stronger, more centred, kinder and more honest (I hope!) than I would’ve been if everything had been straightforward and I’d dropped into that role without any problems.
I don’t know if any of that helps – if it’s any consolation I can totally relate to where you’re coming from.
Jen,
Your comments about your parents dreams and your path in life…reminds me of a similar story in the book “Finding Your Own North Star” by Martha Beck. Your story very closely seems to match the authors, and in essence the message of her book. 🙂 I’d recommend it.
Jen,
Coming in on the tail end of this. But just to say that professional identity, to be technical, is one of the biggest arses to construct and live with. It’s about learning to live with extreme moral tensions (especially in the law whereby have to learn to justify dubious choices by knowing that you correctly followed a procedure or Code), tedium, and a constant sense of being a fraudster. Of course, there are positive, enabling dimensions to all this, and some variation in people’s experiences, but, for me, this would not be enough.
I suspect I am from a similar’ish background to you – I still have to face my grandparents’ taxonomy of grandchild achievements – but I think you’ll be surprised at how much your parents do, in fact, want you to lead a satisfied and positive life. It’s unlikely that they’ll actively support you quitting the law (and why not forget about bar school? get the law qualification or whatever it is you’re doing now and be done?) and you will have to put up with some backlash for a while (most likely driven by envy, I assure you!), but once you become confident and settled in what you’re doing, I bet they will follow your lead. You’re in charge!
Nat and all you Amazing Ladies..
Happy Single’s Awareness day!!!And Happy Valentines day too!!!
Today I had a great one,No tears,No bad thoughts,just pure Joy in my heart.Oh How I love these days,When I get them I hold them close to my heart!
I threw my arms up in the Air today and gave a big thanks to the Man upstairs that I am no longer being treated without love,care,respect,and trust by this waste of a man…
I told myself to day..’Brenda it is time to nuture your soul,time to love everything about you,That little x roll on your tummy,The funny way You laugh,Your infectious smile,and so on….
Everyone of you Ladies makes me want to be a better person…
As much love as there is possible…
Good for you Brenda! Sometimes we forget to give thanks to the Man upstairs especially when we things are going ok. Continue to look after yourself. 🙂
This made my day! So inspirational and encouraging.. you and your columns rock!
Hi Natalie/ladies
Absolutely fabulous post !
I think if you’re in a good place you will love this post, and if you’re in too much pain you might struggle with it.
Just last night someone said something to me at work and it cut me to the bone, but I was over it quickly because my self esteem is back.
” Can you honestly,hand on heart with no equivocations, say you like, love,care,trust,appreciate and value you ? ”
Yes !
Thanks to you,and the authors of some great books-
“Safe people”-Dr Henry Cloud
“The Mom Factor”-Dr Henry Cloud and Dr John Townsend.
“Who’s pulling your strings”-Harriet B Braiker
The only thing that has changed is my attitude.
This is an awesome post Natalie. just when I think your writing could not possibly get better.!! I love “I’d had one hell of a house party with some rather shady guests that I thought would make my dreams come true. Putting them out, setting boundaries with myself and others which fixed my broken windows, meant that I could look at the person I’ve walked around with all this time and suddenly see her with fresh eyes”.
I’ve been back in Australia now for a few months after living in the UK for nearly a decade and thought I was getting to grips with who I was, and then bam, recently met yet another EUM… I had those butterflies you have talked about, that don’t mean attraction, they mean danger/RUN! After a couple of days of getting swept up chasing that ‘feeling’ I stood back and looked at the situation/”party at my house” … and thought OMG I am better than this. What am I even thinking!? So I have ignored all future crummy texts from him. Was thinking of writing back saying don’t text me unless you want to catch up. Then I thought, what the hell? I am not waiting to be chosen!! I choose ME!! I don’t even want to see him. Cannot tell you how I feel so much stronger being true to myself, not hoping he will change and suddenly combust into a good guy. Odd that a few more assclowns have come out of the woodwork since, and it’s so refreshing to know I can work them out for who they are, and ‘bounce’ !!
I think making a list of all the things that make you happy and working on those each day/week keeps me grounded. And if I’m bored rather than turn to online dating, spend time energising myself. I’ve just started a floristry course and am LOVING it! Spending time with my gorgeous nieces too has been amazing and I’m definitely seeing myself with new eyes. to be honest if I never meet anyone now I don’t mind as I have my values of family and good friends and have lots more I want to do in life that does not revolve around men.
Odd that a few more assclowns have come out of the woodwork since, and it’s so refreshing to know I can work them out for who they are, and ‘bounce’ !!
I have assclown and EUM penetrating radar installed and boy oh boy does it WORK! Shazaaam! It is good to be back in the control room of my own mind and body now.
I am still not dating anyone, have banned online dating (I thought I would never be able to do that and let go after YEARS of being on there), instant messenger is banned, and if someone texts me, I phone, phone, phone! And you know what, nobody texts me for ego strokes or chit chat anymore and it is BLISS!!
Months ago I was itching to start dating again (it is coming up to a year on the hiatus/ban/no dating rule now) part of me wants to try for something decent and serious, but on the other side I actually really really want to spend this time discovering me, doing what I want and so on.
I still have some issues to deal with and work on as I get to the source of my issues and kill them off once and for all time. I still have random sad days once in a while, but mostly it is up up up!
Squeee!!
oh this came at a good time although I am feeling really confused about my feelings right now in a new relationship….he did give me flowers and a v day gift a few days ago and he is on a business trip but…he has not even called today or even texted! i am really upset…I am shocked in fact and we only just celebrated two months together this weekend and things seemed fine when he left….wtf?! okay I am trying to breathe and remember that, if he end up being an AC I can handle it but…it is really hard not to make this action about me as Nat says…I thought I had changed things and I changed my dynamic…what am I doing to attract this in my life and if it is not about me then why is it happening? I really dont want to think that it is not about me because then this will be another flakey guy that I did not see coming….feeling really upset right now….I was so happy a few days ago….
Dancing Queen,Before I start to say anything….Did you hear from him?
Brenda
If he doesn’t phone you, why can’t you phone him?
He’s not a mind reader and may actually have no idea of your pattern.
Don’t assume. Pick up the phone.
Thank you!!!
“Love doesn’t just happen – we all have to put some effort into taking care of ourselves and if it’s not your natural disposition, initially you will have to work harder than others at it and face some uncomfortable stuff. But beyond it, is the love that’s there anyway. You just need to look at you differently and choose you day after day after day.”
That is partly my dilemma: it’s not my natural disposition. And it takes WORK to feel all those things for/toward myself. I see some people do it effortlessly and I struggle with it everyday.
I’d had one hell of a house party with some rather shady guests that I thought would make my dreams come true. Putting them out, setting boundaries with myself and others which fixed my broken windows, meant that I could look at the person I’ve walked around with all this time and suddenly see her with fresh eyes.
I think I suddenly realized that I am looking at, and waiting for change to happen, to the shady people in my life, so my “dreams” can come true. I totally feel crowded out of my own life because I focus my mind on the things that people do and use it as some kind of gauge to measure or define myself with. And totally resenting them for not being what I want them to be!
Happy Valentine’s Day to You. All my Thanks. You have taught me so much. Especially today. A day where hearts should actually be laughingly and joyfullly shared…not wishing they were where they never were to be. Tracy
What a great reminder for me.
I do love myself – most of the time, and I am getting better at trusting myself – most of the time. But still find myself looking for other’s approval. I can validate myself and my actions by myself! I know what I stand for so why rely on someone else to tell me I’m doing a good job?
Thanks for this!
I needed to hear this, Nat. I’ve had an agonizing week — heard that my narcissist ex is dating again. I have a feeling it might be a mutual friend who flirted with him. It was killing me, and I almost — came uncomfortably close — to acting out my pain by jumping into an unhealthy situation with another assclown. Thank God I have been reading your column, because it knocked some sense into my head before it was too late. I obviously am not anywhere close to loving myself. I spent two years with a narcissist who cut me down and used every technique in his toolkit to convince me I am worthless. I can’t express the devastation at having to re-build my “house.” Some days, it feels like there’s no protective veneer left. I’m raw. It’s unbearable — and I have to believe that somehow, some way, I will get beyond this agony.
Thank you.
xo
Please believe that you WILL ! I was there….but you have to get up and GET ON! Ok….. You have to wake up, get up, get dressed, go out and maybe just for a little while hide behind a mask that shows everyone , I LOOK AND FEEL GREAT, you can close the door later and feel the pain in earnest, but eventually not only will the outside stay looking great, but inside will absolutely follow…..be you .
Kelly,
You already took the biggest step by getting away from him. I think you’re stronger than you know–try to be patient with yourself, it will come in time. Find something to do that takes your mind off of him, even if it’s only for a few minutes each day–something physically or mentally engaging that doesn’t leave any room for thoughts of him–go for a run, to a yoga class, take a language course?
I saw this quote today and thought it fitting for BR:
“Growth begins at the end of your comfort zone. Stepping outside of your comfort zone will put things into perspective from an angle you can’t grasp now.”
Sometimes Natalie when I read through your posts I think it’s what – about 8 months? less? – after your epiphany relationship that you suddenly got it all together re self-esteem, health, and self-love. So fast! It seems to be taking me longer than that! I seem to keep discovering new ‘unfinished business’ when it comes to loving myself.
I’m on to the food thing now. When I was younger I had a mild eating disorder. I think I abandoned it not because it was resolved, but because I required more dramatic dysfunction. Now that I’ve cleared away a lot of bs around guys, hmm, what’s this at the back of the bs closet? Some bs around food. Thankfully, this time I totally get the similarity of emotions between how I feel about having to choose my food wisely (wanting to, but also panic, resistance, defiance) and how I felt about having to give up the AC.
So as I experiment with saying no to poor food choices, all kinds of stuff comes up about my Dad. His criticism of our bodies, his inattention to our feelings or illnesses, his totally blanking his sexual inappropriateness with me and numbness to my youth years of peer sexual assault, and then the discovery of the main association of his approval and acknowledgement of me: taking me to McDonald’s. Or for a donut. Or cake. Etc.
What I still long for from someone else: someone who wants to protect me. So I’m working on that. I can connect having boundaries on my eating habits with protecting myself. So I’m working on turning away from the midnight snack with a sense of giving myself all the protectedness I didn’t have as a kid, instead of a feeling of self-denial.
I do hope that on the other side of this new kind of NC (an NC from eating like I’m drugging myself) where I take my health much more seriously, is that feeling of having arrived at that wholeness that Nat you seem to have claimed so fully, so quickly.
Or at least, if not wholeness, that feeling of knowing I am protected, cherished and nurtured – that I still (if I think of my most recent dating foray) have tried to source in a partner.
Hi Magnolia, I’m going to do a post on this at some point as it’s come up a few times recently this whole ‘you changed your life in 8 months’ and in one instance ‘oh maybe it’s because your issues weren’t really that serious…’
Obviously over the years I have made a point of emphasising that I’ve still worked on stuff and continue to. My health was directly impacted for the past two years due to some background stuff that had to be brought to the forefront. I wrote about this several months ago.
Me deciding and acting like I’m good enough as is though, has really got shag all to do with all of this stuff. It was a choice and a mentality. I can also have a fucked up past and a partner and kids – I just don’t have a fucked up present.
I thought I was dying and on borrowed time. It was as simple as that.
I had a certain amount of time to prove to my doctors that I could ‘find another way’. I didn’t even know what the ‘way’ was when I walked out of the room. I’m sorry, but all of a sudden, obsessing about what I might have done in the cot to turn my mother off me, or chasing my fathers love, or all of the exes wasn’t important. Neither was beating myself up and chatting shit about me. It still isn’t.
I didn’t have piddling problems either – emotional and physical abuse is just part of it and that’s before you even get to a number of difficult late teen and adult experiences and that’s even before you get to what happened to my mother and the history in our family. I know that there’s a number of people here like Runnergirl, Spinster, Grace, About Me, Elly B, Brenda, Anoosh, Fearless, Kay and many more who have been there. Some of us even seem to have the same mothers…
I don’t feel I have to lay my childhood and my family bare to legitimise the reality of what I have lived and sought to overcome. I also don’t feel I have to itemise the particularly difficult things in my adulthood.
Yes I did have my epiphany 8 months before getting together with the bf. I’d finished it with the guy with a girlfriend 8 months before that though and that was actually after my rock bottom of the panic attack which came about a month or so before that. It was the subsequent realisations and fuck ups that triggered the epiphany which also happened at the same time as finding a lump in my neck and being back at the hospital.
It shouldn’t have taken the idea of a shorter life and pressure from a hospital for it to click, but whatever works.
It also took 28 years & 8 months to get to that point but it’s taken the best part of 35 years to get to who I am now and there are more years to be added (hopefully).
You will find whatever works for you. Whatever the time is is whatever the time it takes. I didn’t know I would get together with him, or that it would last, or that I would go into remission. It’s looking back that has given the amount of time but I never set a time – I got on with my life.
Nat, Mag
An added dimension for those of us no longer in our 2os is that we’ve been living with negative self-talk and bad habits for a LONG time. For me, undoing 30+ years of it was going to take longer than 8 months (though I get Nat’s point that it took her longer than 8 months too). I was so used to talking myself down and limiting my options, often under the guise of being “realistic” that I didn’t realise I was doing it. If you’re a moderately intelligent human being you’ll find ways to justify your position that are quite plausible – even to professional counsellors (guilty as charged). Mind you, I’ve seen a rash of comments recently from women in their 20s saying they have limited options. What’s all that about (rhetorical, I know what it’s about). Ultimately, whether you’re in your teens or in your 70s, if you’re determined to think shite about yourself and your future – you will.
And what you believe, you will make happen.
I think part of the problem is that many of us still consider being in a relationship as the one and only hallmark of “emotional health”. At least that’s what I sometimes do, and at the same time I’m quite sure I’m not ready to date yet…
I’m happy for Natalie and her partner, and even more so for the two little girls who are growing up with two non-toxic parents!
Anyway, being in a relationship isn’t all that matters. I’ve certainly come a long way and still have a long way to go, but I feel I’m gaining more and more control over my own life. Ultimately, feeling out of control caused all the pain I felt in the past. Getting rid of this pain was what I really wanted. For a long time, I believed finding the “perfect” partner was the way to get there. Now I know this isn’t true.
I, too had toxic parents, and now my only sibling is showing absolute signs of mental illness, raging and screaming and lying unprovoked, so now I feel left with no family. They are all together everyday in their dysfunction. I left home to escape. Which is why I am obsessed with getting my own, and quickly, late thirties. I, too, did the counseling thing, in my twenties to pre-emptively work through my issues so that I could find some answers and have my own family. I even picked a professional pshyc. who was a PhD who worked at taught at University Famous. I feel like if I don’t get some happiness and positive results, they get away with it- twice, they get to be evil and win again. Thank God for the internet. I found BR and toxic family blogs, and am feeling some relief knowing I’m not alone- I have kin in cyberworld 🙂 Sure hope some more of our stories have happy endings, and that karma really exists…
Anon,
“my only sibling is showing absolute signs of mental illness, raging and screaming and lying unprovoked, so now I feel left with no family.”
Sadly, my only brother has verbally abused me for years, unprovoked…the screaming in my face unprovoked and then telling everyone a version of what happened this is a flat out lie. He has screamed at me on public streets, chased me into bathrooms pounding on the door, pounded on my car windows while screaming at me when I locked myself in to escape him. then he told me I was evil for shutting him out. Then he doesn’t understand why I won’t answer the phone when he calls…I am evil for doing that too. I tired to talk to him about it and he came unglued to the point I thought I was going to have to call the police. It’s been two years since I’ve talked to him. I haven’t talked to my narc, liar Father for many ,many years. It’s just me and my Mom now. It’s sad but there really was no alternative. He was verbally abusive and I couldn’t handle it anymore. I miss my brother but I can’t be near him.
Anon and Jenny, I think it’s safe to say that your siblings are just not even beginning to operate in a normal manner. Their behaviour is seriously representative of emotional and psychological issues. Experience has taught me that we only put up with this when we are desensitised to it after putting up with other bollox in our lives, often from a parent who behaves in a similar or worse manner. Someone else who is not used to this type of carry on would either run a mile or at least recognise that the person has some serious issues that have nothing whatsoever to do with them.
I’ve dealt with something similar and it’s weird having a sibling that you just have to say no to. If you co-exist with people like this, you have to participate in the lie. It’s important to remember that yes you are related but you think, see, relate and act differently. Their problems mean that they just don’t see etc in the way that you do. There is an assumption that blood creates a greater understanding. I’ve probably been most misunderstood and misperceived by family.
Yes it is hard but I’ve stopped grieving for the Brady Bunch ideal I never had and what I thought everyone else did have but doesn’t. Their behaviour isn’t about you. Save yourselves.
I’d also like to add that other family members actually make the sibling issue worse by denying the existence of it or enabling them by Florencing. It keeps other lies intact.
I’m thankful that I’m close with my other brothers.
Hi Anon and Jennynic,
About 5 years ago when evidence of my father’s voyeurism was revealed, I immediately opted out for me as well as my daughter. I went NC before I knew what that was and haven’t spoken with him since. This may seem extreme but the evidence was overwhelming (videos of women undressing, computer stuff, ally-ways in his house, and video camera in vents…yuck to say the least). I totally expected that my 4 siblings and my stepmother would follow. Nope. My 4 siblings rallied around my dad as did my stepmother, even though it was her daughter (my stepsister) who finally blew the whistle. Once my stepsister stepped up, so many pieces of my childhood went together. In the early years after the revelation, my siblings would not accept that I wouldn’t show up for holidays and birthdays at my dad’s house. It’s like Natalie says, I couldn’t participate in the lie even though I wanted to. I had to say no to my siblings and my stepmother (her daughter has never been back either). Their denial of the overwhelming evidence was the most difficult thing for me to work through. Their denial made me doubt myself. But there was no way I’d subject my daughter to such a violation. That was my line in the sand. Nat’s right, save yourself.
Gradually over the last five years, I’ve been in contact with my siblings and we get together separately from my father. They’ve come to respect my boundaries regarding never returning to my father’s house and I’ve come to respect their denial.
I guess family members can be some of the folks we need to have firm boundaries with. It is weird having a sibling you have to say no to. I understand. It is even weirder having a father you have to say no to. My father was everything to me. Of course, I was a little girl and I imagined most of what my father was. Some was true, most was imagined. That’s why getting over the exMM has been so hard. Some was true, most was imagined. Frig! Same lesson decades later.
But the bottom line for me, after years of work and discovering BR, my father’s illegal behavior is NOT about me. My siblings’ denial is NOT about me. We have all chosen different paths.
Okay, airports are going to notice a decline in profits since I won’t be charged for my father’s baggage anymore. I’ll be accountable for their decline in profits, wahoo for me. Join me?
runnergirlno1,
so sorry to hear about what you went through. I have been thinking about denial a lot, the huge power of it and how destructive it is. I was with a man once who- it turned out in a wash, liked very young girls. This has landed me distraught at the psych, and then it transpired I was sexually abused by my grandfather at the age around six. Dots and odd memories connected, but I refused to believe the psych, it was too distressing. Ended up having to ask my mum about some stuff that came up at the psych and it confirmed without shadow of a doubt about what happened with my grandfather. Like in your situation, no room for mistake. End of a little girls denial. My mum wanted to know why I`m asking the questions, so I told her and she did not believe me, said impossible, he was nice to me and always bought me toys. I don`t know what was more hurtful, having my denial “taken away” from me, or having to cope with hers. I`m so glad you protected yourself and your daughter.
I relate to these posts about denial in the family when I visit home I feel like I can’t move for the elephants in the room. As I continue this journey (waiting to arrive) I find myself less and less able to cope with the elephants in room and so visit less and have less communication with my family. I feel as though one day I will just scream out the ugly truth about how it really was… deep down I don’t think it will achieve anything I will be left even more on the outer and they will carry on as per usual.
I have been looking so badly for that arrival place where I feel happy with myself. I have read self help books and web sites as sushi did seeing it as more things to be critical about myself and the work far too hard to achieve to overcome the things that hold me back.
To know that I will never arrive is and there isn’t really a destination is going to take some adjusting again in my thinking.
What tips are there to stay out of self pity I am crying now and don’t even know why?
I don’t think self-pity is the right word; it’s judgmental.
You feel sad because there are real things to feel sad about, and even more sad not to have those things validated.
In a way, you carry the sadness of the family.
I do think it’s related to how we become FBGs. We experience the essential sadness of a wasted chance for real human connection on a deep level. We carry the sadness of the potential of the relationship. It’s not self-pity, either, it’s a kind of emotional courage that registers how things actually went down, and overcompensates for the emotional denial of our unavailable partners.
Tulipa,
things are trickiest when it`s family, but it helps to say your piece or make a statement. It might cause havoc, trouble, confrontation, there is a risk of being rejected (again), but someone has to stand up for you, you- and I know I feel better, stronger when I do it now for myself. I have cried a lot today too, I think it needs to happen, I think grace said it once, it`s mourning the past, maybe a relief. You don`t need to go anywhere, you have arrived.
Tulipa
You can ‘arrive’ in the sense that you can get out of whatever hole you are in to a better, happier and healthier place. You *can* be happy/happier than you are now – you can have some control over that. It doesn’t have to be an eternal struggle to cling to the edge of a cliff! You can get on to solid ground. Then you can keep walking, more sure-footed, on that solid ground, living your life and discovering and growing… but happier and healthier and all tooled up for the journey of life! (She said, swinging her love beads – I’m sounding like an old hippie now, but you get the idea, I hope)
Hi, following this thread with great interest. So much I would like to say, b/c a few things are happening I’d love to bounce off people here, but I am such a slowpoke writer! I guess I overthink writing, just like everything else LoL. The question about length of time to get to the other side, where you’re no longer in danger of getting attracted to/involved with the wrong people because you have truly conquered all the issues, demons, etc– I wonder about that often. This last round of being stranded on Heartbreak Island is taking almost 2 years now. That’s upsetting and scary to me, because I have been trying so hard to overcome, sometimes lately I feel kind of hopeless. But I had a couple interesting twists in the last week, and I thought– well, perhaps Life is sending some signals that regardless of how I feel, I *must* get myself over to that raft and push off into the great unknown. Two different men, one an old friend/flame who IM’d me on Valentine’s Day, the other a guy I’m having some emails with from an online dating site — out of the blue, in the space of one week. I feel so unsure of myself, that I could handle even going on a date with either of them. Part of me feels as though I failed to achieve complete 100% BeingOverItness on my own, so I really should not even try to dip my toe in any romance pool. And then I feel, thank god I am finally able to even *think* about another man for 5 MINUTES, and yes it feels good to actually have some other man on Planet Earth actually flirting with me. The old friend/flame has actually proposed getting together to help me “break my stalemate”, meaning… some “You-Know-What” Healing, without strings. We go back 25 years, this man has truly been a great friend the last 5 years since we reconnected. this is all a surprise, it just kind of… happened. He knows what I’ve been going through, and he just got out of a relationship. I feel very tempted– but so scared that somehow I will end up feeling hurt, even though I’d know going in, it’s just for pure fun. And the other guy seems like a doll, very nice. But I’m so afraid that the state I’ve been in emotionally has done some kind of damage to me, that how could anyone want to get in a relationship w/me once they find out how depressed I’ve been for so long, how terribly I fell apart, at this age I should know better. sigh…
Anoosh,
This guy who you describe as an old ‘friend’ who is offering to have a no-strings attached sexual relationship with you–he’s not a friend. I hope that you see his actions as a huge red flag. A friend does not try to have sex with you, period. A friend especially would not do so when you’re having a hard time of things and feeling down/heartbroken. Aside from what I see as his poor character, selfishness, and bad intentions, I don’t think that a ‘FWB’ situation is a good idea at all (probably not ever, but especially when you’re feeling heartbroken). It just sounds like a recipe for disaster–you’re already expressing worry that you might end up hurt if you do this. If you want this guy in your life and want to determine how good of a friend he really is, why not tell him that you’re not looking for casual sex and that what you really need him as is a friend (the true meaning of the word, that is, not a sex-friend). If he actually mans up and shows himself to be a good friend, great. If he continues to make comments about getting it on, then he’s shown himself to be an ass and not someone you need in your life.
Sometimes Natalie when I read through your posts I think it’s what – about 8 months? less? – after your epiphany relationship that you suddenly got it all together re self-esteem, health, and self-love. So fast! It seems to be taking me longer than that! I seem to keep discovering new ‘unfinished business’ when it comes to loving myself.
Magnolia,
It takes time and everyone goes at their own pace. I felt sooo pathetic it took soooo long (8 months – year) to get better but let’s put this in context here – my experience with the AC was one of a long unconscious pattern linked also to other issues deeper in the past – like the tip of an iceberg. I didn’t believe I had baggage, and while things were a bit off (treading water in stress) I wasn’t depressed or anything. I was just annoyed that most of my relationships never seemed to leave the airport or I was just used!
If I had been asked if I had low self esteem or issues back them, I would have looked at you funny. What in the what now?
The 8 months it took me to recover only gets me to a place that is level with other people who normally do have decent self esteem and are relationship wise. It was lucky I saw the AC with someone else (new victim or casual) because it shattered the fantasy/self-doubting (maybe it wasn’t the right time/BS) well and truly. And that is also reading BR constantly, reading the book, making hard changes, and spending over $1000 on psych appointments to explore and understand all this sh*t.
There is still some more work to go as I need to figure out what I want to do with my good years and enjoy just being me.
I found myself at one point complaining to my counsellor in a very exasperated way, “I’m just not *there* yet! When do I get *there*?!”
She peered at me over her glasses, smiled, and replied, “You do realize that there’s no *there* to get to, don’t you? There’s no end destination point at which you arrive.”
Cheers!
Hi all,
Magdalena, I hear you, and I understand that the process is ongoing (I do think I understand that) – but we are operating here at BR as though there is a kind of “there,” aren’t we? The “there” being a solid YES to the question (I think it was posed last post): Can you honestly say that you like, love, respect and trust yourself? For me, being able to say an honest and full YES is my “there”. Wherever I go from that point is bonus, even if it’s the way it should always have been.
I asked about Natalie’s “timeframe” to wonder if I have been missing something obvious. But I don’t think so. Reading your response, NML, I’m struck – I think, if this isn’t totally off the mark to say – the way you were given, or claimed, your clarity is a gift, for all of us. There is no way any of us would want the health scare you went through to galvanize us into action, yet the pressure you were under, as you tell it, seems to have given you a clarity that I have work at like stripping layers of paint. If it took you as long as it takes some of us to get to that base place of self-respect (a kind of “there”), perhaps BR wouldn’t exist.
Magnolia, I personally believe we’re kind of contributing to the problem. Whenever a long-term BR reader rejoins the discussion and reports on a vastly improved life, we say “you seem to be in a healthy place”, especially if there seems to be a good relationship with someone of the opposite sex. What we really mean, I guess, is “you’ve made a lot of progress”.
Quite frankly, those incidents used to make me a bit miserable, because I told myself: I must be miles away from that healthy place. There is no place in sight for me where I could stop, just a lot more work to do. Also, I still don’t feel ready to date. Or maybe I just don’t want to? Is that the same? I’m not sure.
I’ve recently come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a “healthy place” (Magdalena, your therapist seems very wise to me!), simply because being healthy means being constantly on the move. There are always old habits to ditch, attitudes to question, challenges to face, new powers to discover, and new things to learn about ourselves! The challenges will grow bigger and bigger, not smaller, but we’ll be able to meet them by growing as well. It simply never stops, and part of the healing process is coming to terms with it.
We can get stuck in an unhealthy place only. Health is never static (and there is no such thing as perfect health either).
I’m going to disagree.
You know when you’re on the way to a healthier place when you hear the alarm system trip, the signal changes from green to yellow or red, when you operate the flush and are actually excited about flushing, or you hear an NML like ‘voiceover’ in your brain go off when you encounter a situation but don’t react the same way you used to.
I’ve had two people I know I’ve fancied break up from their partners. My old self would be like ‘now here’s my chance to ask them out!’ but now its like CODE RED DON’T GO THERE. It’s fantastic.
A few of my friends are totally EU, possibly even ACs. I hear stories about how many people they are sleeping with (double digit) and then wonder why they can’t get upgrades, how they have become booty call / ‘friend’ to a complete and utter assclown, how they had to dump someone because ‘they got attached too quickly’ blah blah and so on and I can recognise it straight off the bat now.
Things are getting better – the big test will be when I end No Dating, but for now I just want to enjoy myself a bit 🙂
*FLUSH* to my old self!
@ToA: You’re certainly mentioning important steps, but in my personal opinion those aren’t the whole story. It’s like you’re evicting the animals from your house, but then you’re stuck with an empty, uninspiring home. A good home needs to be furnished, painted, weather-proofed, decorated and occasionally repaired though…
I have more or less gotten rid off the toxic people around myself, but I still need to learn to deal with life’s ambiguity. I think my addiction to EUM/AC was basically avoidance behavior, and if I don’t learn to face challenges instead of avoiding them, I will be at risk of getting addicted again (whatever the “drug” might be this time). This doesn’t pertain only to my issues from the past, but also to new challenges I’m quite likely to face.
This has occured to me at work. If I want to achieve any of my goals, I have to deal with the risk of failure and I need to face some mildly toxic people as well (I would do almost anything to avoid psychopaths, but people who are “only” manipulative, greedy or deceitful are impossible to avoid because there are just so many of them!). For some time I believed I would never be able to reach any of my goals anymore because those questionable fellow human beings seemed way too powerful. I’m not sure about that anymore. I think I was just trying to avoid ANY kind of failure. Whenever I face a problem, I need to honestly assess how much power I have: This might even change over time.
For some reason, this matters much more to me right now than the hunt for any possible “future husband”. I guess by clinging to all those “fantasy relationships” I avoided a lot of challenges not only from the past but even from the present.
EllyB- you hit the nail on the head, and it wasn’t the ‘whole story’, the toxic family left me wide open to a sociopath as well- I was with him for years- thinking he was a gift from God- since he made huge money, really successful & great looking. I thought “tee hee hee, I’ll show them, look what I’ve got” Then, the cracks appeared-Tiger Woods level of cheating on me into the second year. Girls throwing bottles at my window, on the doorstep screaming ‘I could love you more than her” naked photos on his phone, blocked calls at all hours. He would come back begging, saying he’s changed, he is seeing a therapist, etc, etc. basically- putting on his mask & mimicking normal human behavior in order to win me back. I would also get the play by play of how ugly, & stupid the other women were- the intimate details, yep. Wasted huge amount of time and lost myself/my faith- Now that I know the signs, I see them everywhere- girls in this blog are getting s-pathed every day- it is epidemic.
Many years ago, I started enjoying my successes at work, the reputation I was starting to built, the respect was gaining. But I always told myself: “Don’t enjoy it too much, Elly, because one day, you’ll have to marry and have kids, and men can’t stand it if a woman is passionate about anything but them”.
I also told myself: “Don’t be too ambitious. If you go on like that, no guy will be good enough for you anymore. Because of your huge flaws, you’ll have to settle for someone very flawed anyway. Slow yourself down at work, QUICK!”.
This was in my head through all those years. I was even scared of the moment I was “ready to date”, because in my mind it meant my happiness at work would have to come to an end!!!
NO. I’m way too valuable for that. If there really is no man who would support my carreer and enjoy my successes (instead of sabotaging them), then I don’t want a man.
I thought “getting ready to date” meant having to slow down my ambitions and having to play down my skills and talents, like any “real” woman does (or so I thought). I have now decided to not believe this anymore, and it’s such a relief!!!
EllyB
I think there is a destination. That doesn’t mean you terminate your life at it though, or you stop there. That’s what I mean – it is a place you pass through one that you aim for.
When I started NC I was at denial and grief and shock. My destination was a healed self and I went searching for answers as part of that.
Have I manged to pass through? – I’d say yes. There are still some other things to sort, but most of the hard stuff the AC helped cause (and I facilitated) is now behind me, in the past. Instead of huge baggage I have now new knowledge and behaviours.
Onwards…
The comments on this post remind me of why I love what I do. There are people in similar situations to you all that have resigned themselves to their past and their present unhappiness becoming their future unhappiness. OK it may be to varying degrees, but I think that most people here want to change their lives and push positively forward.
I agree that Magdalena’s therapist is spot on. I don’t know if there is a particularly tangible moment although as EllyB said, most people attach the tangible moment with a relationship. It’s more the cumulative effect of a way of being that you build upon. Writing was a huge part of my clarity – there’s nothing like exploring your life in writing. Pouring my thoughts into words has healed me many times over. It also acts though, as a trail. When I had my epiphany, I read back over a year of my writing and it was like those moments in a film where lots of frames all come together at high speed as a visual of the actor suddenly making the realisation as the pieces all slot into place. It’s why I tell people to keep diaries, especially Feeling’s Diary’s.
I have however, always had a weird clarity – I just never used to apply it to me. It’s why people have been asking me about my take on things since I was a child. It annoyed some people but it did gain me friendships and has helped me in my professional life even before I started writing. When it came to me and anything directly related to me, my avoidance of my feelings and negative self-talk meant that the clarity disappeared or became fuzzy.
I also seem to be someone who responds ‘very well’ to intense pressure – meeting deadlines on the wire, winging it with presentations, fight or flight from shit relationships at danger moments, or hearing that I have to make critical decisions about my life. It’s a habit I’m working on breaking or at least harnessing although obviously on some fronts I’ve improved it already.
While a relationship and kids were things I hoped to have in my life, my goal was to be a happy me. There’s no measurement on it. There’s no way of going “Uh, I’m 100% happy.” I’m just happy. I’m not a happy clapper all the time but what I have discovered, is that I can be unhappy or pissed off or whatever, but that doesn’t have to affect my own standing with me. What I can say that I have been doing though, is being and doing things that basically make me feel good or enrich my life.
Be patient with yourselves although of course if you want to put a (positive) rocket under you then that’s all good too. I’m always learning on the go. It’s like on the job training. There’s certain things you can do like having a dating break, boundaries, addressing pressing issues, NC, therapy, alternative medicine, support groups, developing yourself etc but you still have to get on with your life *while* you do all of these things.
“I have, however, always had a weird clarity – I just never used to apply it to me. It’s why people have been asking me for my take on things since I was a child. It annoyed some people but it did gain me friendships and has helped me in my professional life even before I started writing”.
I find this really INCREDIBLY helpful and inspiring, as it’s an issue that I keep pushing down to the bottom of my emotional paperwork pile for future perusal.
One of the things that I’ve learnt about myself and my Florence Nightingaling over the last few years is that I’m GOOD at it. All my family are analytical but whilst my brother and my dad channel their superpowers into the wonderful world of business and systems-management, I’ve devoted my time to trying to work out people’s behaviour. Throw in some training in counselling techniques and a job where I have to analyse, control and channel human behaviour all the time and I ended up as some sort of Florencing machine.
The bother was that I didn’t have any boundaries, self-awareness or self-respect and so I ended up in a situation where nigh-on everyone who was a regular fixture in my life was sucking me dry – even when I was clearly not coping with life myself. I fielded a constant stream of people who came to my kitchen (at all hours) to drink tea and talk about themselves and yet when their lives improved and they were having fun or when *I* had a problem (unplanned pregnancy? broken heart?) they were nowhere to be seen, or still there but making it all about them and their dramas.
Anyway, I culled the friends, started talking to the nice ones again (I stopped spending time with them because I felt redundant when I couldn’t ‘help’), set up boundaries with son’s dad etc and pulled a blanket over the entire issue with “I Am Not A Mental-Health Professional” stamped on it in big black letters.
It wasn’t until recently that I’ve started really *talking* to people about things again that I realised that I’m good at it and I enjoy it, and it’s put me in a bit of a quandary – do I celebrate this ‘skill’ and channel it into something useful, or is it more of a curse? It’s only just occured to me that I’ve been regularly reading a blog for a year and a half by someone who’s successfully channelled it (in a healthy way with boundaries)… so it can be done 🙂 I’m not sure how I should go about it just yet but it helps to know that it won’t automatically mean that terrible things will happen if I do. Thanks Nat.
I liked what you said here Natalie. I often feel misunderstood by the world and have become somewhat solitude because of it. Recently I have turned to writing and it has helped lift my spirits since my break up and get to my thoughts unedited. I have been going to writing groups and have surprised myself with what has been coming out on paper. I try to express myself here, but it doesn’t come out right because I think to hard about what I’m thinking and it gets stuck. These writing practice groups have opened up something in me I never knew I had. I am remembering buried things about my childhood that poor out on paper. It is exciting for me. This writing is for me only and I am discovering more about myself since I’ve been doing it. It’s been therapeutic.
It’s helped with my struggle these past couple weeks with my recent failed relationship. I thought I was ready but it was just another bad ending and it has opened up all kinds of doubts about myself. Am I still that screwed up after all the work I’ve done on myself? Did I try to hard? Not try hard enough? Was I too cautious or did I become careless and ignore the warning signs? I thought I was going slow and doing things right but I still don’t know what was right and wrong, who was right and wrong….was I living in an illusion or was I taking a chance? These questions plague me right now. I was happier with myself and felt good when I started these last two relationship. The one I opted out of with the pretty boy alcoholic was a no brainer but this last one has really shaken up what I thought I knew about myself. I’m still standing but feel a little spun looking for right side up.
I’m so glad you love what you do Natalie because you have such a gift. Thank you for your willingness to share your gift.
I don’t know where there is either and I agree with Magdalena’s therapist, I think mine said something to the same effect years ago. Thanks to you all I know where there ISN’T! There ISN’T being an OW or hanging around in any disrespectful circumstance or allowing nonsensical, dishonest, disrespectful characters in my house (I loved the analogy with the girls’ favorite story).
For me, I think it’s been a decade long process of self-awareness starting with therapy in my early 40’s (after a verbally abusive relationship where I became aware of my abusive childhood) culminating in hitting rock bottom in my early 50’s when I discovered BR. I had to learn and re-learn the same lesson many times and probably will continue to make mistakes. But I remember one day while posting on BR when I suddenly realized my present and my future did not have to be my past. Slowly since then, I’ve started to see me differently. I have a past but I’m not my past. I certainly don’t have to own the sins of my father….that was a big step. I didn’t realize how much of my father’s baggage I was still lugging around. Other things I’ve started to see differently about myself is that I’m a separate person from others and their experience may be different from mine, including males as well as my daughter. I also see that I’ve given myself quite a nice house (once I kicked the shady folks to the curb) and a nice life, albeit without a male. Thanks as always Natalie for giving me the language to understand the differences I’ve been feeling but couldn’t articulate. It’s odd but I did always think that someone else would come along and give me “everything” meanwhile I didn’t notice I was already doing it for myself. It was like a part of me was on auto-pilot looking out for me while another part of me was attempting to sabotage me. I’ve been looking at myself differently and didn’t realize it. Sometimes it feels like I’m speaking in riddles so forgive me. It’s like more pieces of me are becoming integrated, although I thought I did that work in my 40’s. I haven’t done anything for me today so I got to go do that now.
“It’s like on the job training. There’s certain things you can do like having a dating break, boundaries, addressing pressing issues, NC, therapy, alternative medicine, support groups, developing yourself etc but you still have to get on with your life *while* you do all of these things.”
Love it Nat!! For the past month or so I’ve had to work on pushing myself out of the nest, so to speak. I found I was sort of hiding behind, “Oh, I can’t date unless I’ve sorted out every single issue to 110% perfection!” I’m still a work in progress, but everything’s sorted out to the point where I can start getting on with it. I did my dating break, I addressed my formerly absent self esteem, could give a flying sh*t what any of my exes are up to and I know my boundaries. Do I still want to focus on having a little more faith in my ideas at work and more confidence putting them forward? Yup, but that’s not a reason to say, “I don’t believe in myself enough in general and therefor I’m not ready.” I think not! Thank you so much for all that you do lady 🙂
EllyB, I agree and think we need to believe we are good enough the way we are now. Because we are. Not when we get to some imaginary place of perfect realisation and resolution of our problems. We need to be impressed with ourselves, because we are asking questions and wanting and striving to be happy, good people and we especially need to be impressed with what we have overcome. We are light years ahead of people who hurt us. It is a lottery, what you are dealt with in life, look how far we have come.
Sushi and EllyB, you have homed in on exactly what needs to be focused on.
You are all good enough right now. Right now. It is important not to get things twisted and see the things that you’re working on as making you ‘good enough’.
The moment I accepted me in my entirety and stopped busting my own proverbial balls, the hunger stopped. I said it out loud, I said it in my head and I acted like it. I had to say it a lot at first because my default button is to have a background soundtrack of “I’m not good enough” and other greatest hits from the Negative Self Talk Collection.
Some of you are like those people who spend all evening surfing TV channels trying to find the perfect programme and end up watching nothing& feeling frustrated. You could just choose a programme and watch it. Seeking perfection makes for a highly dissatisfactory life. There’s a lot of pleasure to be had from learning from life as you go instead of devoting your life to working on being perfect enough to step out on stage.
Some of you are so busy chasing perfection, you cannot see what’s in front of you nor can you appreciate what you are now nor what life is giving you.
I am good enough right now. Yes I’ve grown, yes I’ve changed and yeah, I’ve fucked up, but I am and always have been good enough. You all are too.
Natalie,
I am having a problem getting something, please help. It might be my negative music playing in my ear.
“You are all good enough right now. Right now. It is important not to get things twisted and see the things that you’re working on as making you ‘good enough’.”
Yes, I strongly feel that and yet;
Someone who isn`t working or has worked through childhood issues- and abuse is a big one- is a relationship red flag. That`s why I do think, that it`s the working on my issues as well that makes me good enough. So was I good enough before, but a red flag at the same time? My negative music when I first found BR was so loud that I took a lot of what you wrote as a critical ” wow, you have so many problems and you are EU, definitely not good enough”. Blinded and panicked, but I realise now you were not saying that, I was translating it to myself that way. I need to get my head around this. That music is thumping in my ear right now and I feel really confused.
sushi
At the risk of sounding like The Mad Hatter – The problem isn’t that you’re not good enough, the problem is that you THINK you’re not good enough.
The answer isn’t to make yourself good enough, it’s to change how you feel about yourself. I thought my childhood had an effect on me I could not overcome. But I did.
Not being ready for a relationship doesn’t mean you’re not good enough – you’re just not ready. If I broke my leg, best wait for it to heal before starting ski-ing lessons. Do the time in plaster, do the physio, build my strength. Otherwise I’ll just hurt myself or even others in the process as I go careering around the slopes.
And try not to benchmark success against your relationship status or whether you are date-able . Otherwise being single = feeling a failure = desperate for a relationship = hot EU mess = depleted self esteem = rinse,lather, repeat.
It’s worth examining your relationship history and your past. But – and this contradicts my previous comments – there’s no need to spend ages doing it. There’s better things to do with our lives. A part of me thinks I had to “pay” for the bad stuff I’ve done and that has been done to me with months/years of suffering, introspection and analysis. I have done enough hard time.
Spring’s coming, time to bloom.
Grace:
“I have done enough hard time.
Spring’s coming, time to bloom.”
I’ll second that. For you and for me and for all!
You have done enough hard time, Grace. Enough.
Sushi,
I hope you don’t mind me butting in here with my tuppence worth – I related to what you have said. I think it’s maybe better thought of as if ‘we are a red flag’ it is because we are not yet aware that we *are* good enough. Perhaps the ‘journey’ is not about getting to a place where we become ‘good enough’ but about getting to a place where we *realise* that we *are* good enough.
Yes, perhaps negative self belief is a red flag – it’s certainly going to land us with all kinds of unhealthy people, dramas and scenarios that both mirror and perpetuate our sense of not being good enough, of being less than deserving. As Nat has said, and I agree, we are and always have been good enough, so it’s not about getting to be good enough, it’s about getting to know, to believe and to realise that we *are* good enough and we have been good enough all along – we just didn’t see it that way.
Hi Sushi, in business, particularly in IT, many create products that are good enough to put out there and then evolve them.They start off with simple and possibly even quick designs, launch and then evolve. That is good enough.
In fact, you only have to watch the ads for Daz, Ariel and other soap powders from the 80s to see the whole good enough in action. They all washed clothing back then. They’ve evolved and wash better.
Unless you have deemed yourself impossible to evolve, you’re good enough right now.
One of the things I recognised about my old obsession with being good enough is this:
We do not arrive into this world as fully functioning. We have to grow, learn and evolve. We did not need to have full functionality from the outset otherwise we’d all have been screwed. We also don’t even need full functionality at 18 because it’s like when we become adults, many of us have to fuck up quite a bit and then raise ourselves into adulthood. We’re always learning and evolving or at least those of us who want to learn and evolve are.
I have been worried about being good enough for as long as I can remember. I can specifically remember thinking about it when I was 5. But I was good enough when I arrived – it just took me another 23 years to realise this.
Them being unwilling to address issues that affect their ability to healthily relate in a relationship means that you can judge the situation as a no-go. The person who has accepted themselves and who could continue to evolve from there but instead opts to eek out results in their comfort zone is their version of happy. It’s recognition of an issue and instead of thinking “I could really enrich my life and my experience if I addressed this because it isn’t working for me in the wider sense”, they don’t want to evolve for whatever reason. Circumstances may force them to evolve at a later stage, but right now, it’s good enough for them.
Thank you Natalie, Fearless ( you are welcome to butt in anytime 🙂 and Grace,
I get it now, it`s sinking in. Came up with; if I met a man who was like I am, same wars, scars, determination to address what needs addressing, same imperfections and capacity to love, would I feel safe to trust him with my life? Hell, I would!
So, that`s my answer. I`m good enough for me. Your last paragraph Natalie was all about my ex alcoholic AC, it puts a lid on that box. I got so emotional today, I feel like a wreck and my brain cells have fused. Thank you all again.
Magnolia, I think you are striving for perfection. I don`t think there is a point in trying to perfectly “be there”, that is too much pressure. Loving yourself to me also means to give yourself some time, a break, a benefit of the doubt. I was going to answer, yes, I absolutely love myself now after all this time on BR, I feel like a different person, I like myself a lot and I feel safe- that is very new to me. At the same time I definitely don`t think I`m “there”. But really,I also loved myself a year ago when I was in depths of despair after breaking up with an alcoholic AC. I thought , honestly that he was the last man on earth and my soulmate, and leaving him felt like I was cutting my arm off. Still, I did it because I loved myself and my children more. This is scientific 🙂 proof that this whole thing is a journey, and we`d better enjoy it as it`ll probably go on for as long as we are alive.
Magnolia
This wanting to arrive at the destination may be to do with fear of failure or anxiety.
I used to have a terrible problem at work with “rushing” things. I wanted to get to the end of a task and have it DONE rather than have it hang over me. I can work really fast, but I feel better about the task, about myself, about my job and make fewer mistakes if I SLOW DOWN and enjoy what I’m doing rather than pushing myself to finish in record time. I’m not competing in the Olympics.
With the man, I want to know how things will turn out RIGHT NOW because I’m scared that I won’t be handle whatever might happen. I want to nip it in the bud before anything begins, sabotage it by ignoring him, or fast forward it so that I’ve got a result rather than going through the discovery phase of dating. I am panicking myself with all kinds of scenarios of how it will go wrong and what I will do about it.
It strikes me that men fast forward because they want to get control of their emotions, our emotions, and the unknowable.
Let’s not fast forward ourselves. It’s a bit rich coming from me but – kick back, enjoy. Life is good.
Talking of children’s books, I enjoy “Slowly, Slowly, Slowly Said the Sloth”. In my heart of hearts I am a calm and calming person, not a drama-seeking missile. Time to be true to me.
This thread has helped! Sushi, thanks for asking that question because I was still thinking, nope, I don’t quite get it. I want to be “ready”!
The back and forth discussion – very Socratic!
The way I understand it for now is, no matter where I am in my learning curve, I don’t need to feel conflicted about me as if some healthier or happier people are more evolved. We’re all evolving.
I went to the first day of this science conference today – no agenda, no expectations, just curiosity – feeling whole and justified in being there no matter what my contribution. I was enjoying that feeling, as I was riding the Skytrain, and then suddenly it went: ping!!
That’s what Natalie means!
I am whole and justified in being here, in Life, no matter what my contribution, and whatever the contribution is is Good.
I love a squash and a squeeze! Do you sing the sing the song as well? It’s a cute story and a great allegory. You’re right, we can apply it to our lives in so many different ways.
Just joining you. Thank you so much for writing about this and putting it all out there. I’ll say it- I go only for emotional unavailable men but even worse is that I seek them out only to further enable my own emotional unavailability. Wow.
I remember the 1st line of the tx I sent the creep when I finally had the courage to end it, it went something like this, ” all I ever got was scraps …..I don’t want scraps anymore……” that was 3years ago , he hasn’t changed but I have, so very much. I am the person I was looking for……thank you Natalie
Thank you for writing this post. I started reading BR about a year ago when I was trying to get out of a very negative relationship. Even though I knew that everything I was reading here was true and it made sense, the man was EU he was emotionally cruel and distant, I still would not let go. I made excuses, kept on going and coming back, thinking ‘maybe this time he will see that I’m worth loving’ but of course he only had less and less respect for me or interest as time went on. I had to reach a point where I was suicidal and getting medical attention before it finally clicked for me. Since then it has been a slow road back to myself. Now, when I reread your posts instead of thinking ‘yes, that’s what I should do (but I won’t )’ I finally feel why it is better to be standing in myself and looking out rather than abandoning the house entirely, which is what I’d done, letting any opportunistic passerby occupy it and trash it to bits! It’s quite sobering to realize how self-destructive I was and how easy I find it to fall back into that behavior. But I’m so happy I am reading this now at a point where I can really take it on board, from a place where I know I have moved on and am not going back there. Thanks and happy belated Valentines Day!
“But I’m so happy I am reading this now at a point where I can really take it on board, from a place where I know I have moved on and am not going back there.”
Congratulations Willow and welcome to a whole new way of life 🙂 Happy Belated Valentines to you too!
True post. This and the last one have given me discernment back in dating. I am by nature happy and loving – yet was too willling to watch these traits crumble as I tried to adapt to men I was seeing – mainly because I was hitching myself to an illusion. One such man whom I had a good thing with but who wanted a break from the relationship but now wants to “try again” – I am willing to date him again, to listen, to not let him into my heart again til he earns his way. I will not let him back into my bed quickly either. It feels muxh more loving to myself not to make myself vulnerable again by loving before its warranted. And while a man may get one pass to “try again” –
no longer does anyone get multiple passes.
Hi all,
I’m an all-time reader of this blog, a sometimes-commentor, and a long-ago phone appointment with Nat. That was several years ago and things have changed alot for me. I read this column and commented to a friend recently that Natalie should hang out with my counselor; she and I seem to be discussing the very issues that Natalie will blog about the next week. Uncanny.
In any event, I might be happier than I’ve ever been right now. Not batshit-over-the-moon happy, but definitely content. I never, ever thought I’d type those words, much less believe them. The short story is that I have a long history of crappy relationships, daddy issues, self-esteem problems. Among other things, I think a large part of my problem was that I looked at the world through a very fucked up lens. I looked at myself with the same goggles. The depression that ensued required professional help. A lot of professionals.
Anyhoo, I realized that I have spent so much time pissing my life away, moaning because my life doesn’t look like everyone else’s. I thought I had to have a relationship that looked just so, a ton of friends with a burgeoning social schedule, a less consuming job. I don’t have 50 friends to run with like the chicks on Sex and the City? OMG, there must be something wrong with me. Men are not changing all of their ways because I love them so very much? Well, clearly something must be wrong with me. I’m almost 40, not married, and I don’t have 2.2 kids? Everyone else does, so I must just not be good enough for that kinda bliss. I could list a thousand more of those examples, but you get the picture.
But after counseling, alot of hard work that I continue to put it, and yes, a nice antidepressant, I’m changing. I realized that my life is actually perfect for me. I don’t have 50 friends and a burgeoning social schedule because, really, I don’t need that nor do I really want it. I just thought it should be that way because that’s how I perceive everyone who is “normal”. The truth is, I’m a much more handful-of-insanely-trustworthy friends kinda girl, and blessedly, I have that. I’m not a social butterfly, nor have I ever been, but again, this is how I perceived the Beautiful, Shiny People of the world to be, the happiest of the happy. But I’m perfectly content to watch a good movie, read a book, whatever. I like to do…
To Willow et all. I know exactly what you mean when you say learned all about the guy and his bs and still would not let go. I got the most of my realizations after going NC. Before that I really couldn’t see how much he was playing me. But I knew that I was tired if feeling so bad about myself and the adultery I was engaging in. Before I went to my Women’s Ministry meeting I was actually entertaining the idea of calling him and telling him that I want to see him and have sex once a month. After pondering that for a little while I told myself that adultery is what it is and it doesn’t matter how often one indulges it adds up to the same damn thing and I am better than that. What I find so amazing is that I have come sooo far from where I was with low self esteem and STILL I would consider the idea of doing that. Fortunately, thinking about unhealthy behavior and acting on it are two different things. After I went to my meeting and had such a great time, I came back home “with a HELL NO! ” attitude. Getting over an EUM takes such a long time because you have to give up the dream. But, I can honestly say I’m treating myself with love, care, trust and respect, and the backsliding is in thought only. Thank you, Natalie and all the rest of you who are still struggling. It will get better as long as you stay away from that person.
You’re finally doing it. Very good to hear from you. The amount of pressure you put yourself under had to give. I’m so glad that you’ve discovered the ‘house’ you’ve always lived in. xx
I moved last week. My brother, who is EU, reluctantly helped me. He did the whole p/a ‘I’ll be there. I’m running late. I have to work. The car, the phone blah blah blah. My brother. My family, my flesh & blood. During the last week at my old place, my car broke, so no car for a day. He knew this. He would show up with coffee, just for him and tell me ‘you live near a Dunkin donuts now’ [an American coffee chain] and would mill about and correct and oversee how I did everything. I’ll try to make this short, for the last 3 days of the move, I was exhausted physically & emotionally, I’d been in the place for 20 years and had memories, both good and bad, I had not eaten, I had not rested. Final straw, my hands are full, his are empty and he hands me a pint container of paint and asks ‘aren’t you taking this?’ I must have forgotten how I’m supposed to address him and said ‘put it down, I don’t know what I’m doing with that’. Like a switch was flipped, his eyes rolled back in his head and he bellowed ‘You can show some gratitude!! I’ll leave all this here and you can move on your own! You’re not talking to ME like that!!’ On and on all this bile about how other people ‘let you get away with this! and even ‘you better watch your step!’ ‘It’s not my fault you didn’t plan better!’. I said are you actually threatening me? [thug, bully] All this took place in public. This is who my family is and how I was trained to accept crumbs and just shut the F up. It went on and I tried to just end it and walk to my car. I told him he was not welcome in my home. Long story short, now he’s been ‘texting’ me, like nothing’swrong. Oh, and he also told me to ‘drop it’ when I said he was out of line. The difference is, now I understand how I wound up accepting crumbs from the last EUM and really, truly, how none of it was my fault, I was born into this life and I will be DAMNED if anyone is sending me back there EVER again. Sorry this is so long.
Outergirl
My brothers and sister are so kind and supportive to me, and we all trust each other. I wonder if I’d have survived without them.
There’s no excuse for your brother to treat you that way. I snapped at my youngest brother when I was on holiday and under stress. I felt AWFUL afterwards. I apologised and he said “No, no, it’s good for me to know how you feel”. Made me feel even more guilty, actually, but bless him!
I’m sorry to hear about your horrible experience but, if it’s any consolation, it’s made me appreciate what I have.
Thank you Grace. You are so kind and I always look forward to your comments and insights. Yes, appreciate the good people in your life. I have a family that love me, I hand picked them. I also have a biological family; … in name only. My eyes are truly open now, I think there’s a fairy tale, is it the Baba Yaga who gave a girl the skull with the burning eyes? To shine all the way through. Truly I did not see the forest for the trees [or the wood for the trees as you say] because toxic was normal for me. What role models? My brother is divorced btw and spends all his free time either ‘hanging out’ [he’s in his late ’50’s] or with ‘mommy & daddy’ as he still calls them; hoping that call will come in when they say ‘son, we love you’. I feel bad for him because he is my brother and sure there were times when he looked out for me. But he crossed a line now.
Hi Outergirl, you’ve done the right thing. You’re not children anymore – you don’t have to be around one another and he’s still catering to a very old dynamic. I don’t even think he hears or sees you. He obviously has his own issues and of course it’s a shame, but you cannot fix him nor keep putting yourself in the line of fire. You can love him but you don’t even have to like him and you can do it from afar. I think that people use the whole ‘family’ thing as a license to bust boundaries or to put up with crap behaviour. We don’t have a choice as kids, but we do as adults. Keep choosing you.
“The difference is, now I understand how I wound up accepting crumbs from the last EUM and really, truly, how none of it was my fault, I was born into this life and I will be DAMNED if anyone is sending me back there EVER again”
Outergirl, this is a sentence for me to remember.
I would love to hear more about how everyone took the steps to overcome. I have a problem with being ‘labeled ” by myself and others. I have had a very shady past. I have horrible self esteem and have hooked up with many casual partners and created tons of drama and pain. I sometimes have people who I have shared my journey with kind of sitting and waiting for my next drama . when i do handle things ok, its like I am not allowed to get better. same with my family. I have been divorced twice. they never stop reminding me, of the bad decisions I have made. I don’t want to be like that anymore. I don’t want to hate myself, i don’t want to look for sex to feel good enough and i don’t want to play a victim or create pain and drama. I am not saying I am better, not even close, I just started this , but get frustrated when I can’t overcome my past
Hi Katy,
I get what you are saying about labels.A few years back I had an old schoolmate tell me as she dropped me off from a night out that I had ‘had an interesting life’…She didn’t mean this in a kind way but inferred that I had been promiscuous etc. She had been married for twenty years to a boorish man(but I chose not to say this!)
The thing is, I had never been promiscuous, I had dated a lot at times, been hurt a lot, had low self esteem and she hadn’t seen me for years and years. So her words meant nothing really. She knew very little about me.Nada.
I think Katy that the most important label is the one we give ourselves.We have to start believing we are special, a worthwhile person, interesting, deserving of love.
I tune out a fair bit of the feedback I get from certain family members.They are not in touch with themselves never mind giving me feedback. Believe yourself, trust your own instincts about you before you listen to the’putdowners’ Also, the Past is the Past. You create the you of the future.
Hi Katy,
You cut contact, same as any toxic relationship. If they add to a problem, they add nothing to your life. Addition through subtraction.
There is no bad situation my family can’t make worse once they know about it. They are like hyena, sharks. They smell blood in the water and they are all over you like a wolf pack on a wounded deer. Just like dealing w/wild animals, I can’t show fear or weakness around them. Start building on the good you and others see in yourself. Are you kind? Are you supportive? Are you good at story telling? Do you volunteer? You get the idea. Ain’t nobody’s business but your own how you lived your life, as long as you don’t intentionally hurt people to get your way.
“There is a temptation when you’re not happy inside, to find external solutions in the form of people, things, or even substances.”
I think this is my new favorite post of yours, Nat.
If it wasn’t drugs or medicating with food, it was promiscuous sex, followed by material things, then the attentions of as many men as I could gather (not quality interactions, of course, married men, jerks, players, etc.) all designed to fill the gaping hole of self-hatred inside me. I haven’t had the horrific “Mommy dearest” experiences of the amazing survivors who post here, but middle-child syndrome, the constant carps of a critical mother and being overweight and shy still left its share of scars. Overall, though, I’ve been my worst enemy. Everyday, it feels so good to finally start seeing a best friend in the mirror. You’re right; it’s a hollow existence to depend on things and substances and people to validate you. It means nothing if you don’t feel the love for yourself. Thank you for a lovely post.
Lovely post Blueberry, like the bit about being our own’ Best Friend’.
You’re dead right, you’ve got to root for you!
i would also like to add something we used to talk about in SAA, called a “dry drunk”. take the men away, (married, casual hook up, etc) and you are not cured. you just took your drug away. the SYMPTOM is being promiscuous, the DISEASE is lack of self esteem and love. same goes for food, alcohol, anything we use outside of ourselves to fill up or ease pain
Hi Katy,
Thanks for your insightful comment. Just attending the SAA meetings tells me you are dedicated to changing your path. I’ve never had the courage to go to any of those meetings and I wish I had. So, kudos to you.
Distance yourself from family if they keep reminding you of your past mistakes and indiscretions. When I’m with my overbearing mother and the judgements and criticism begin, (the day of my dear father’s funeral, she hissed at me that I was “so irresponsible” in front of other family), I know it’s time for a hasty exit. I don’t confide much of my personal life to her or to my other family members because it invariably comes back to haunt me. Let them read the tabloids for their drama fix.
I wasn’t really feeling Valentines Day yesterday. I thought about my ex, and I imagined that he was probably celebrating with someone new, and I didn’t feel like going out to buy my own candy, or blowing up my own balloons, or writing a love letter to myself, although I think those are all good and fine.
For me, I just wanted to give myself a chance to feel whatever I needed to feel without pretending, without stuffing myself with chocolate because I have a history of avoiding my feelings, emotions, self-medicating, etc.
I felt pretty sad mostly…bored, but I’m ok with that…. I just allowed myself to feel my feelings…didn’t try to control anyone or any situation; I worked out, ate right, did my work, and attended my support group, laughed at some funny shows, my son gave me a heartfelt hug, and I went to bed.
Not very exciting, felt very uncomfortable all day…still feeling withdrawls from chaos, …felt like my demons were right on top of my head all day with their feet in my face, but I did manage to tinker on my piano yesterday, and started drawing a mural the day before…enjoyed a documentary on the Impressionist.
…still plugging away at creating my own life.
Thanks for the continued encouragement 🙂 🙂
@Sugar and Spice: “I didn’t feel like going out to buy my own candy, or blowing up my own balloons, or writing a love letter to myself.”
Been there myself, but believe me, sometimes it’s exactly the good things you “don’t feel like doing” that actually make you feel better if you decide to do them anyway. It’s amazing what a change this can make. Sounds odd, I know, but it’s true.
How about going out TODAY and buying yourself… well, maybe not candy (if eating too many sweets is a problem for you) but flowers or something like that?
Hi EllyB,
” sometimes it’s exactly the good things you “don’t feel like doing” that actually make you feel better if you decide to do them anyway. ”
Hey, maybe you are right…. It’s not that I haven’t ever bought myself flowers; I bought some for myself about two weeks ago, but, I’ve been thinking about what you said, …I haven’t been giving some activities a chance…ya, I’ve been predicting that they won’t be enjoyable…I don’t know; I think I’m looking for something magical to come along and lead me off into a fulfilled life, and I’m pooh-pooing other activities that just don’t excite me, or seem boring; yet, I don’t know that because I haven’t tried…, or else I haven’t tried doing them in a different way.
Ok, so, I’m thinking about treating myself to some piano lessons for Valentines Day. I wanted to play again on my own, but it’s not really working, so maybe if I take some lessons it will inspire me to practice…it’s worth a shot….
Thanks EllyB 🙂 :), and Happy Valentines Day
‘Relationships serve to teach you about yourself …’
So timely for me and I’m really thankful Natalie
I had a date on Saturday, (after many months) and just agree so much with this article…
It went well because I’m thinking differently about myself these days.
We had lunch and a walk around a seaside village, then a couple of drinks in a wee pub. I felt relaxed, not anxious, loved his conversation and we discussed when we could see each other again. No tension.
The thing is, this guy would not have been in my radar before. He isn’t arrogant or mysterious or standoffish or all the crappy things I used to equate with attractive.He is just a man, I find quite physically attractive who I’d like to get to know…before I would have analysed the situation to death!
I’m laughing because I got a text from him last night and wondered if it would be flirtatious or sexy or sg-and it was to tell me he had lent me e-books on our kindles! I smiled for a whole hour at that.
He said he’d phone tonight ‘to’ arrange meet up at weekend?’.
It is of course early early days and if it doesn’t work out so be it, but I really like myself like this, not obsessing or afraid to lose control.
It feels exactly as if I am enough to validate me.
Nat,
As always you hit the nail on the head. Thanks for sharing your insight!
Happy Valentines Day ladies!
After a lifetime of abusive relationships (probably starting with my father) I had my epiphany relationship with the EU, porn using, fantasist of a man at the age of 39. This last ‘relationship’ really was the worst in terms of abuse (standing me up, emotionally abusing me and sexually assaulting me), but also the best because I came to a new understanding about me and I found BR. Looking back now I can see that most of my ‘relationships’ really consisted of 1. once in a blue moon, meet hot guy that I have oodles of chemistry with, 2. shag hot guy, 3. spend copious amounts of time trying to turn a shag in to a relationship (florence, etc) 4. dwell on the fact that I couldn’t turn a shag into a relationship (ie make it all about me) and 5. spend months or years getting over….. a shag.
So, later in life than I would have liked, I’ve come to recognise I have choices (unlike women in some parts of the world) about the life that I lead, the relationships I have and the way I feel about myself. I believe a lot of the problems I’ve had in relationships with men (and bosses and girlfriends even) have resulted from the fact that I have not been aware that I have a choice about anything (as weird as that sounds). I was wired from an early age to put others first and the religious elements of my upbringing made me feel that women were put on earth to serve men. Until I arrived at BR ‘boundaries’ may as well have been a word written in Japanese characters. How I felt about myself was based on how others behaved towards me – so boundaries weren’t an option.
So, now when there is a choice to be made (including about how I feel about myself), I try to remember to ask myself; will this choice empower me or disempower me and, if there is a decision to be made; is this choice right for me or am I trying to please someone else. It’s hard work changing the patterns of a lifetime, but I recognise I owe it to me and nobody else can do it for me.
this post put a picture on my house guests. I do not understand myself why i invited them?! I still havent been able to deal with the issues. Its been over 6 month now. I always used to be quite healthy, but am starting to have breathing problems and heart rythm problems now. Apparently am still shell shocked about the whole situation. The worst bit is i know it will carry on even longer, due to sorting the house out, which he is using as pressure. Hope this will get better, I need to work out, how to not let this stuff get to me. And no more AC’s !!!!!
Hi Mui, I don’t know if you’ve read my post about how I learned to listen to myself again where I talked about vertigo, tinnitus etc and how we throw out physical symptoms of our stress? Anyway, I took the liberty of consulting ‘the book’, You Can Heal Your Life by Louise L Hay that I reference in that post.
“Breathing problems: Fear or refusal to take in life fully. Not feeling the right to take up space or even exist.
Heart problems: Longstanding emotional problems. Lack of joy. Hardening of the heart. Belief in strain and stress.”
Your body is trying to communicate to you – listen to it and deal with it. It seems like you need to serve an eviction notice as I think this is preferable to keeling over.
I was having breathing problems and was in intense physical pain over the past week. I first acknowledged that I was doing it to myself, then started asking why. Turns out I was conflicted – a man at work I am very attracted to asked if I could be friends outside of work. He is not available for a romantic relationship, and I kept fantasizing about how we *could* be friends.
Finally I admitted to myself that we couldn’t, I was too attracted to him and it was inappropriate. I told a friend, said it out loud, repeated it a a few times…80% relief within a few hours.
I told *him* and admitted it would be inappropriate because of *my* feelings (I had been projecting and making him out to be the one who wanted something more, ha!), and felt 100% better within an hour. He responded with such care and respect I felt almost dizzy, it was utter pure relief and No Drama!
Actually, make that 125% better, because I was singing and dancing around and more playful and bouncy than I have been for as long as I can remember. Getting real feels risky as heck at first, but it’s so damned GOOD it’s addictive!
Beautifully written Natalie. I’ve been dating someone for a month now. It feels so different. Not heady craziness but just ‘real’ if you know what I mean. But mostly because I am different. I’m in love with my life right now and yes, me too. I have so much to look forward to even without this new guy, that I cant conceive of losing it over someone who is not right for me.
@sm – you beautifully state the result of dating after reading all of this good information. The person I most need to manage is myself. I have been too willing to get excited and assume that all that is presented to me is what is. No idea if anyone else has this problem or whether I’ve just been blinded by my own optimism and wishful thinking, with guys that seem really nice – they are NOT up-front, classic “bad boys”. This willingness to totally trust and believe in the initial smiles and the words has not served me well, and was rather silly. It has led me in and out of relationships that have no solid ground, even a couple of marriages. I need to keep my hormones away from my healthy skepticism!!
Broadsided,
YES, I have the same problem. Because of my pattern they almost always turn out to in fact be the bad boy…and sadly one worse than the next. BAD in the truest sense of the word. It starts out the same: This guys has seemingly more to offer than the last guy. Car, check. Job, check. House of his own, check. Mmmm, seems responsible enough. Well this has to be better than the last guy who had no money, no car, no job right? In the end, I pay attention to even fewer of the red flags than before, because I want so badly to feel safe and secure without discovering nearly enough of what is really going on. What i’ve learned from BR is this-do you notice me saying ANYTHING like, values friendship and loyalty, check. Values empathy and relating emotionally and being emotionally supportive but values self differentiation, check. Why? Because you can’t POSSIBLY know any of that in the short time it takes to know someone has a car, a job, a house, etc. Jackasses own houses, cars and have jobs!!! I IGNORE the gut reactions to them squashing my boundaries and the signs they do not share my values, it’s so much easier to tell myself THIS IS THE ONE now based on visual cues than to wait. I have never wanted to wait. I think because I have never really liked myself so i’ve looked to others to fill the void. Writing this is so theraputic because it helps me to realize that why would I expect, from a total stranger, what I can’t even give to myself, who I’ve been my whole life!? Insanity. Went from EUM bad boy on your basic levels, to EUM drug addict, to EUM/AC physically abusive to EUM AC cheater and liar. It sounds crazy but this last one has been the toughest to handle. Illusions, fantasy, not loving myself and looking at love as something that will happen the minute I feel those warm fuzzies=disaster for me so far. I put base desires, illusions, and wishful thinking first, then am left to do the discovering of all the dark truths when I’m “invested.” Que the merry-go-round of pain and emotions. All Back Asswards as to how it should happen if i valued myself over these men. But not for always….I am coming to grips now too with my own EU tendancies.
Anyway, just wanted to let you know you aren’t alone.
NCC,
…does not live with mom… check. This one must be perfect, right? I am soooo relating to what you wrote.
Ncc I have the same check list. Now something very peculiar is happening. My new guy is slowly telling me about past relationships and I am shocked at the poor choices he’s made, IMAGINE THAT. I have to keep reminding myself of my own poor relationship choices, really I do, and if I told him the half of it would he run in the other direction? Whew something to think about. I still want a guy with a job, 401k, own home, stable etc… I’m 45 now, I cant be raising no man 😉
Hi SM,
I totally agree, i too want a man to be stable and meet those basic adult items. Having a car can mean they have to or had to pay for it most likely if not be making regular payments, have to maintain it, etc. Not having a car as an adult usually can mean no license, no money, no amibition, (again, stereotypically, there is nothing wrong if someone chooses not to have a car :))These things can “show” responsibility, (i think modern society deems it so, but it’s not always the case) stability, that kind of thing. But what I always find out later is that he ISN”T paying on time for his car, he DOESN”T maintain it and it’s it’s 20000 miles past the last oil change! This is turning into a pretty good metaphor for how they live the rest of their lives, and they treat people in the disrespectful and poor manner they treat their car! The AC just assumes that by it being parked in his driveway and it started up the last time, and the time before that, and the time before that, that it’s always going to be in his driveway, and it’s always going to start for him. That’s how i feel treated. I keep ending back up in his life, (the driveway) and I keep giving him what he needs everytime (starting up) regardless of how he’s treating me. No care, no respect, no love.
First, I want to wish Natalie and all of the beautiful ladies of BR a very Happy Valentines Day.
Although, I spent Valentines Day evening alone, I was so content and peaceful. I am so thankful for this period of time in my life. I feel like I am in a phase where I am learning so much! Just so thankful. Anyway, I called a few people and gave them my wishes; which made me feel good. Normally, I am jumping through hoops to get just the right gift for my mother, like I do for her b-day, Moms day, christmas, etc. But, this time, I sent a card with some money in it and I called her. You see, my mother feels like she does not have to give me any gifts or tokens of appreciation because she gave me life and she took care of me when I was a child. She is now exempt, from all gift giving. That is a long story…not going there right now.
Because of the insight that I have gained from reading BR and some deep soul searching, I see myself and situations differently. I am retraining my thoughts and behaviors to match. I am consciously doing things differently, let me share this story. I have a friend who is heavily involved with an AC/EUM; it is so obvious to me based on my experiences and reading BR. My GF told me that she can not break it off with him because she is very lonely on the weekends . She is single with no kids, like me. Her AC/EU keeps saying that he wants to be just friends and will not stop calling her. But he is getting all of the other “fringe” benefits, without any commitment. I decided to ask my GF if she wanted to get together on Sat. night for dinner and drinks. She sends me a text simply saying”that may work”. Thats not a definite answer! My internal alarm went off. I recognized that language from the many AC/EUM that I have dated. I see it for what it is, she wants to see if Mr. AC/EUM is available first, if not she will go out with me. So, what am I doing differently? 1) I made the decision not to personalize this situation; in the past I would have 2) My GF appears to be emotionally unavailable; flashing yellow lights. I will proceed with caution with her.
So, I decided to make other plans, I will go to the movies alone. I am not waiting around to be chosen by a GF, who cant even commit to going to dinner.
I may not have arrived at that “destination” But I am certainly not “that woman” who waits around to be chosen.
Very good article Nat, as it describes me as well. Once I learned to love and accept me for me, I have been so much happier. Exercising boundaries was uncomfortable at first, but once I got use to it, I don’t think twice about setting people straight if and when they overstep them. This year has started on a positive note as far as my love life is concerned, but I had to kick a few girlfriends to the curb who were not treating me with the love, care, and respect that I deserved. I love me—friends or no friends–so although I was dissappointed in their bevhavior, it did not affect how I felt about me. I am now focusing my energy on cultivating friendships with those individuals who show me that they value me just as much as I value myself.
Over the last two days (and the last six months) I have been suffering from huge depression. I keep sleeping in all day, avoiding life, avoiding life (to some extent). Yesterday I had a huge lightbulb moment, concerning childhood abuse. I keep crying and my heart is beating really fast.
The point Natalie made earlier up the page about being ‘enough righ’t now is very true. I really want to accept this but I keep hitting a brick wall.
I am starting sokme new CBT therapy soon and hope to dispell this latest realisation.
Nk..
Firstly Big BIG BIGGER hug!
I have suffered with Depression my whole Life..There were days and even a time or two when I felt like I could not go on anymore.
It is a debilatating disease.
Are you taking any Meds?
I wish there was something I could say to make you Feel better,but alas there just isn’t.You feel what you feel.
I tried the CBT therapy as well,It was hard for me to grasp it at first,and still is at times,But It has helped.
For years the Dr’s diagnosed me as BP,Put me on a whole hosts of Meds that did me no good,and after yet another Breakdown and Hosp stay,It was discovered I am Unipolar,which means,I have highs and lows,but mostly Lows…
I have always been a functioning Depressant,I could got to work,pay the bills,and for all outward appearances I was A fun person,But look out in the comforts of my home..It was cry cry cry..
If I look back,my episodes always centered around Men,The minute I get into something it someone,it’s like Brenda changed,I told myself I can’t do this stuff,and therefor made it into a self prophecy,So out came the sabotager…
I also have been an addict(gambling)for most of my life,so the stress and depression I already had was now 50 times magnified.
Depression is so treatable of we only let it be.If w want to have ourselves labeled well we can do that too.It really is our choice,not a death sentance…
My heart knows your Heart,You can Do this!!!
Hi Brenda,
Thanks for the niceness 🙂 I have not taken meds and at this point don’t think I ever will. I haven’t been diagnosed with anything more serious than ‘moderate’ depression. Perhaps I will be diagnosed with something else clinical depression? who knows?
Its my personal opinion that I am ‘very or severely’ depressed. Its taken getting ‘let go’ from a job and abstaining from sex to realise how many layers of the onion I need to peel back and move out of denial. At the age of 25 I am finally slowing down, cuting toxic people out of my life (especially romantic relationships) and I have come to the conclusion that I need a simple life. for the time being while I heal from my complicated childhood. I am a permantly busy person who over commits very often and self sabotages in most areas of my life.
I was angry that my body kept me in bed all the time at first, but now I realise that it is trying to get me to face my stuff and I am begining to understand the gravity of my stuff……
I wish you the best and know that I am have banned relationships and sex for at least a year…
I’ve been feeling very sad these last few days (obviously Valentines Day didn’t help….). I’m trying to rediscover myself again after my last relationship stole my confidence and I guess it’s difficult to come to the realisation that I am now very far removed from the person I was pre-AC.
Taking baby steps. Trying the whole dating thing again too but I have to say it’s challenging…I never thought I’d be going on dates again so it can be rather emotional. However it is nice to feel desired and attractive to someone again.
Is rebuilding confidence generally a slow process and how can this be aided? I can feel it now starting to gradually build up but really it is so slow. But..as time goes on I realise that the way the AC treated me had a lot more to do with him than it had to do with me and that life goes on and that not everyone is going to see me the way he did. That gradual realisation is making me feel a lot better. 🙂
Orchid…
You hit the Nail on the head when you said,”It has more to do with them than me”
Bingo!!!!!!
What has been the hardest for me to grasp is that for most of my last go round with the “DISSPEARER”was not making it about me..I did that for son long,thinking I must be the worst person in the world for such a cruel and cowardly way out..
I now know a few things…
1…He is a cruel coward
2…No matter what my issues were,nothing or noone is worth that kind of treatment
3…That with the help of BR my values and morals are beginning to take on new meaning…
I am not ready to date,I have worked on my far enough,Not even close,But making me my choice is so liberating…Much love
@Orchid and Brenda. I don’t know what to say except keep going and thinking of you today..keep on confronting that pain, feel it but don’t let it master you. You are on a journey, just take each step as it comes. Enjoy every good moment that comes your way, however small. Don’t obsess with the dating, you will know when you are ready again. Concentrate on your own feelings and needs, what makes you fufilled, proud and content. Remove the need to pin this on another person. Even if you have small triumphs, pat yourself on the back.
You are worth it. You have purpose and a place in the world.
I’m not sure if I’m allowed to post links but this has really helped me recently. Not long ago I asked you all how I seem to be emotionally unavailable when I didn’t think I was and working through these points has helped me understand why I am not and what I need to do along with NML’s brilliant posts.
I have been reading for a year I would say and posted a few times but right now I need you more than ever as I will not slip again into the same pattern that I have been in for so long with the EUM. Very hurt but self inflicted I know. Anyway, I hope these tips help xx
Thanks Shinestar, I enjoyed the quote about forgiveness. Really empowering.
I had been a hermit for much of my life, whenever I tried to have more invited the wrong people out of loneliness maybe, .. I would rather be lonely, it hurts but it hurts MORE to have all of these memories I wish could rid of.
You gotta be careful of who you let in, I had no idea what it would end up doing to me, having bad experiences over and over again,and them on top of it worked with some pretty rough people over the years too, and I am sensitive.
Sometimes even nice people can hurt you when you love them more than they can love you, I don’t really know what else to do right now – but be OK with being lonely longer, I would rather take my time after all these years, and not accept things near me that really I don’t want or rush blindly into things from being needy.
Sometimes it really does seem like you can’t win for loosing, well today I am depressed and maybe should not be writing, But if anyone-else is feeling depressed your not alone.
I actually had a thought today that maybe I should turn into a lesbian? I started looking at a woman today even, maybe I would been much better off?
I cant seem to NOT get put on the back burner, no matter how good other things are going in every other way even.
Right now I feel like I hate men, and don’t want any part of anyone’s games, so much seems to be a game to AVOID anything real in the now, there is always some excuse some reason and that can go on for decades.
And I can’t take it anymore being less, its better to have nothing and be sad and cry from being lonely than it is to experience that pain of not being thought of enough… “knowing your not being thought of enough” and waiting for it to happen.
I think as long as your around it never will happen either, just too bad when you are gone and was hurt too much later on your suddenly the something you could not be when you where right there wanting to be something.
I want to be SOMETHING when I am actually there, and I swear I will be a lesbian if I need to be one then , that other stuff finally hurt me way too, excuses can stay away from me.
Brenda..
Love love love you Name!!!
I do know how you are feeling,as much as you think this is Unique to you.In fact many of us know exactly what you are going thru.
You are SOMETHING!!
You are WORTHY!!
I too am having a really hard time leaving the house,I go to work,do all the requirments of life,but when it comes down to meeting people,I would rather sit at home and watch a good movie.
There are moments when I start to feel sorry for myself and do the whole “why me”stuff…
“Why me”,I will tell you why…Why me can now see the difference of what a good Man,relationship,etc.. is…
Why me is making it about Her,her choice,her feelings,her thoughts,her values,her morals and so on and so on…
5 months ago,I was exactly where you were,devastated,alone,tired,defeated,not good enough and so on..
I can remember writhering on the floor like a small child crying and almost unable to go on.I kept coming here and reading and posting till the cows came home,trying to make some sense of what the hell went wrong with this major asshole I was with…
It was not overnight,and hell I still have thoughts of him,but they are few and far between.It does get better,I can promise you that.
You will heal,you will go on.
I recently received Nat’s book in the mail,and my God,the things I am learning,not only about the Asshole I chose,but more importantly about myself.I have a new meaning to the ‘AHA MOMENTS’,I am not ready to date,I have said that before,it’s not that I am lazy about it,it’s more about trying to work on myself and make this recovery about me,instead of some Man..
Please keep coming here,Write it’s healing,and please stop making this about you….There are bad people out there yes,but there are good ones as well,a gazillion on here!!!
Brenda (first one),
You are not alone. I just came home early from work, did so yesterday, too, and didn’t go in on Monday at all, because I can hardly function; I am on the edge of tears all the time. I feel like I have to rebuild from scratch and don’t want to.
Just on the lesbian thing — I tried that. In my mid-20’s, right after a heartbreak, a close friend fell in love with me and she was a terrific, nurturing person, so I thought, why not? It lasted 4 years plus a bunch of aftermath drama, and of all my relationships, including bad ones, I regret it the most. Why? Because I am not a lesbian. Therefore it was some kind of adoration/codependent thing where I was using her. In fact, I don’t think she was a lesbian either. She was engaged to be married when we met and I think I was the escape. I wouldn’t be surprised if she has 5 kids now.
And all of the issues that come up in heterosexual relationships do also in same-sex ones. It was no solution to anything, although she was a fantastic cook and I ate really well. I wish we had remained friends only.
I know that this is somewhat off-topic, but as a lesbian, I had to put my two cents in. It’s absolutely true that all the issues that come up in heterosexual relationships also come up in lesbian relationships. Don’t get me wrong, there are a lot of great women out there, but there are also a lot of sisters who are EU, abusive, unfaithful, future-fakers, and/or unwilling to commit. Natalie’s advice is as good for lesbians as it is for heterosexual women.
Yes, Tanya. Right after that relationship I let myself get seduced and future-faked by a Don Juan-ess. She was stunning and self-confident. She would paint a picture of all we would do together, use a lot of “we” language, and then look faintly puzzled and annoyed when I tried to make any of it happen. She enjoyed letting me know how in demand she was, saying, seemingly slightly perplexed, “This really hot woman in a skirt came up to me on the street and pressed her business card in my hand and said, ‘Call me,’; that happens to me all the time,” or letting me know how her exes couldn’t let go while she has no problem moving on. She reframed us as “friends,” and then confided in me about other lovers. The worst was when we spent all of gay pride day together, went out dancing, and then at 3 in the morning, she picked up someone else right in front of me at an ATM machine and cheerily waved good night. We reconnected after 20 years, had dinner, and she told me she has been with over 80 people, men and women, and “everyone falls in love with me and I have to set them straight.” She would give any EUM/PUA a run for his money, and win.
I’m feeling really blue today.
This longing for my ex is KILLING ME.
I was enjoying a nice respite, after 6 months of post-breakup sorrow hell, and now it came back.
You know the drill, it’s the missing the friendship, the good parts, even though the bad parts obviously outweighed the good or we would still be together!
I guess I’m probably still grieving the loss. 7 years, although on-and-off, are a long time. There has been NO ONE else in my life or mind for the last 7 years…
After 5 months no contact it was starting to become easier for the first time. I had started to have feelings and process them without snapping back to the longing, I was starting to take real distance from him emotionally. I am now back there, I’m now sitting on my hands to not contact him.
For the first time I had really started to feel powerful in shaping my life, as opposed to what’s described in this article that I’ve always done, hitching my life to someone to make it complete or worthwhile.
It felt so good, so empowering!
But I guess this is a process with a seesaw shape… ups and downs… but I’m still choosing not to give in and go back for the same. A moment at a time. I know I need to look after my body and mind in moments like this so I’m going out for a walk and exercise.
If you have experience to share with similar stuff, I’m all ears!! I need all the support I can get in getting over this way of living my life and creating a new one, making a life for myself with vitality and love that comes from ME, not a man/lifesaver!
Thank you all!
Brokenhearted…
It has become a ritual,that in the morning I get up make coffee,and read and reread all the posts on here,Kinda sounds OCD….lol kidding of course..
I am sorry you are feeling this way,7 years is a long time,give yourself a break,Try and remember the reasons you are not with this person,instead of glorifying the Good times..
I did that for months,Would think of things he would do for me,things said,moments of happiness……But I see those as crumbs now.The real Man was angry,thoughtless,unavailable,mean,spiteful,controlling,a coward and the list goes on and on….
I don’t dispute there were good things about him,they are just way way WAY deep down..
My Ex EUM,had a MAJOR issue with his Mother,so much so that he hated her,even threatned once to kill her.
Part of me feels sorry for this Man,because to be honest,he does not stand a chance in anything healthy.But again,not my problem.
There are Drs and such for everything,if he wanted to get help he could have,He knows he has a problem,but does nothing about it,so the cycle will continue.I too have my issues and baggage,hell we all so,but You and I are here at BR,getting healthier and by God “GETTING IT”…You are on the right path,sit on those hands,NC all the way,its a feeling,and feelings are fleeting!!!
Much love….
Brokenhearted —
I think maybe you get scared when you start to prioritize your own life. Longing for him is a kind of emotional touchstone — a safe and familiar, even when painful, state. That’s okay. You are doing great; the longest I’ve gone NC is 2 months (in 2008!). You really really really don’t want to have to start all over again. it sucks; stay strong.
Brokenhearted,
For about three weeks 8 months after the NC was first started, I really really did miss the AC and all the mannerisms and little things they did. It was like something was missing in my life, it wasn’t nice.
Looking back I am shocked just how severe the reaction was – being so bored / mindf*cked that you spend your weekends wandering city streets is shocking.
It’s definitely a see-saw process. Over a year after my break from an AC, I went through a week or so where I really found myself aching for the times when I would drive over to his house, the snuggles on the couch, etc. I knew it made no sense logically, I didn’t want him.
I dug a little and noticed I had been particularly stressed recently, and my body was craving its old drug a little bit. Once I saw the pangs for what they were, I focussed on reducing the stress, rather than worrying about what the pangs could mean. It’s not regressing, it’s just an opportunity to ask yourself what triggers you to want to run into someone’s, anyone’s, arms? Now is your wonderful chance to deal with the real feelings, because if your AC was around, you’d just go to him, avoid the initial trigger and then feel much worse later. Then you’d be distracted by the “worse.”
Hope that helps. You’ll pull through!
On Day 2 of NC. I decided to once and for all cut all of the ties…every single one and to gather every ounce of inner strength to pull myself out of how angry and stuck I feel. My life has revolved around him (the ex EUM) for almost a year now. What a sad existence. I don’t even know who I am anymore, I have become so defined by him and what he did..that someone thought that little of me to betray me in such a way.
I have tried NC a few times now but keep breaking it (the last time was Valentines), then feel even worse. It’s such a horrible, mean cycle. I want to find myself again and I want to forget.
I’m going to start by participating in some of the activities that I used to really enjoy. Hoping to make it this time!!!
Day 2 NC, you need to really be intentional.It’s going to be hard, i’ve been there, but it will get better over time. It took me a year i would say getting over ex EUM, and I know right now it seems a lot of time, but it was worthed. You might need less time, who knows. The best thing is that you recognize that it is time to stop the madness. I pray God will give you strenght.
I’ve just completed almost 5 weeks of NC with my exAC who would contact me about every 3-4 weeks for the past NINE months. At first I would respond, but each time I got a little further removed from the situation and a little better off emotionally, until right about after Xmas he contacted me saying I was the “love of his life” etc. I should not have ever responded or agreed to his text to meet up, but I did. However, something in ME was different. I was not desperate for him anymore. I told him to leave me alone for good, there would be no reason for us to meet up ever again, as I would not risk my future on a man who would walk out of a relationship with me then try to throw me crumbs. Fast forward about a week. He pulls up beside me on the highway (I’m in a rental car) he texts me, calls me while we are driving asking if I saw him. I do not respond or look over at his car. He then sends me the following text “C’mon I never did anything to you and now you won’t even respond to my text messages.” I still maintained NC. So here is the kicker- it has been about 5 weeks since his highway act and, last night I get a picture text from him. It is him holding a baby. No words or message just the picture. (I am assuming this is his sister’s new born baby because she found out she was pregnant about the time we broke up- NINE months ago.) Now, first, why would he do that. I would never send any of my ex’s pictures of me in my new life doing anything. Second, I don’t want to be that mean person who doesn’t give a flip about his sister’s child. But I also don’t want to open the flood gates and break NC. Thoughts?
Dazed
Ignore, he’s an idiot.
And don’t make it all about you. His sister and the baby don’t care what you think of them. They’ll be just fine without your congrats.
He’s just trying to get your attention. It will be puppies next.
Grace- I am laughing out loud “he’s an idiot” haha. Thank you for the confirmation of what I was thinking and the reality check!
Dazed.
Grace is right. What does this assclown think? That you are now supposed to play Columbo by spending your time figuring out who the mystery baby is?! Wouldn’t it be just like the thing if you sent his sister a congrats card and it wasn’t even her baby! It has echoes of the politician who tries to get the female vote by having his picture taken being nice to a baby. What woman could resist? Errr… you, Dazed?
OMG I got a puppy picture recently after not hearing from him for 3 or 4 weeks! And yes, he’s an idiot too! LOL
Maybe I should get a puppy and text the pic to all my exEUMs? Does not that sound just so ridiculous even thinking it?
@P. the thought of it is so absurd I am laughing out loud haha
Total manipulation. He wants to “win” by breaking your boundary, because he knows damn well what he did but you’re *not allowed* to protect yourself. You are in a very strong position right now; do not give in to the manipulation. My ex called *my mom* and I fell for it and got tears and promises, and then he moved in with another woman. He just wanted to make sure I was on tap again because I’d gone 7 weeks NC, and I was very clear why. It was brutal, I mean i cannot believe what a mess i am as a result of my hopes that it all meant something.
What the hell is this guy smoking?
Assclown crack perhaps.
@Fearless- I didn’t even think about it, but completely agree about the “politician move”- if he can keep up his “good guy image” with pictures and such, he thinks people will buy in to that lie too. I did for a while, now I see straight through that.
@ixnay- agree, manipulation on his part all the way.
What mostly makes me ENRAGED is the fact he thinks he still has the right to try and pop in and out of my life!!
@tired_of_assanova- I’m pretty sure my exAC is a assclown crack dealer haha
Help ladies,i have been a faithful reader of baggage reclaim for almost three months and i have been trying to do justice to myself by following advice i find on Nats posts and your comments but i backslided this weekend after a month of NC. I went to a wedding of a mutual friend and AC was there and he ddnt butter me that much and one thing let to another and… He did exactly what he ussually does after he gets my attention,he runs… Thinking about it i feel sooo stupit,its replaying in my head over and over and i thought i wasnt that person anymore,i thought i was over all that and he didnt even try hard yet i just gave in. I know i know,i ws used AGAIN and i dont know is it that i dont love myself or am i just desperate what? I am extremely tired of doing this to myself but how do i get free…?
Jones
“I am extremely tired of doing this to myself but how do i get free…?”
I think the answer is to stop doing this to yourself. I don’t mean to be trite; I know the feeling of having let myself down – yet again – only too well. There is only one way to make it stop and that is to make it stop. NC. No exceptions. I began to see myself like a child who kept trying to sneak out to go kick a ball about in the middle of the road. Every time I even considered breaking NC I gave myself a very large row and sent myself to my room! Grounded! I am much more compliant these days. Eventually you start to get that playing with this man is the same as throwing yourself into oncoming traffic. I see my ex EUM now as literally ‘dangerous’. My well-being was never on his list of ‘things to do’. Thankfully, it’s now on my list. Put yourself and your own safety and well-being at the top of your list of ‘things to do’ and you’ll get there.
Jones,
You get up, dust yourself off, and look at yourself differently. I’ve been down the same path. For me, it was one step forward two steps back. I had to dust myself off so often there isn’t a cobweb left anywhere. Eventually, it became one step back two steps forward as I began to take the blinkers off, clean the animal out of my house, and claim my house and me.
Start NC again and use every precious NC moment to focus on YOU, not HIM. Don’t give in to the blame-shame-rumination cycle Nat describes in this post. You can get free.
I really, really struggled too. I’m not completely “there” yet but I’m not that woman anymore no matter what tricks he has up his sleeve. BR has helped me to see his tricks are pretty standard run of the mill AC lines. I’ll be posting on Natalie’s most recent article as I just encountered the ex MM. Same tricks. No magic!
NC really does work.
Fearless & Runnergal, thanks for that lil kick. The last thing i want is for this creep to occupy so much of my thoughts and for me to feel the way i do now. Been thinking of changing my number but then again i reckon he’s not that special for me to even think of that, i just wish my mind stops going on wee wee mode when this douch comes back with his lies. Its funny that before i came across BR i thought this was normal,that hes the type of guy that likes his space like i do but i kept wondering why arent i comfortable with the type of space he wants,i now know that i was only jus a pit stop for this dumbag and i let him have his way coz maybe i thought thats what i deserved. If only i could just wake up and have all this turmoil as a distant memory.
I love your metaphors. “Its been a house party with several shady guests”. I couldn’t put it better. Thanks to your blog, I’ve gotten past a lot of hurt and learned to make wiser decisions that are beneficial to me , most importantly. Thanks for sharing your wisdom..
Out of all the posts I have read here for over a year’s time, this one resounds within me the most. However you came to your personal clarity and awareness about the love of onesself, I hope to follow a similar path, and attain such awareness for myself.
The analogy between the crowded house and the men I have allowed to “love” me is so helpful. Being alone, rather, choosing to spend time with myself to honor, discover and love who I am is the place I’m in now. It feels guilty and selfish…but I imagine that will turn to nurturing and comfort. Again, thanks for help with such a hard thing to learn. If I can do this, my daughter will benefit, too.