When I read a comment by long time reader Fearless on my post about actions matching words, it reminded me how we can get sidetracked by creating backbreaking missions for ourselves.
“Well, what I realise now is that I have never seen relationships with men in terms of what I wanted from a (any) relationship with a (any) man. I always saw relationships in terms of what I wanted from this (particular) relationship with this (particular) man, so that my desire for a relationship was always about a specific man to me and never about relationships in general or about men in general.”
I can totally relate to this, as can any person who has persisted in putting their bucket down an empty commitment well in the hope that on the gazillionth try, some commitment water will finally come up.
Who you are, your values, goals, desires, plans etc then become focused on each person you’re involved with. ‘You’ drop into the background or are even completely forgotten while they and what they’re not offering become your focal point of what you believe you want, in essence distracting and even blinding you. It becomes a backbreaking mission to extract a relationship or commitment.
When you don’t have a clear view of who you are, that grounds you and ensures that you’re living congruently with your values, it’s a bit like roaming around playing pin the tail on the donkey or a very messed up game of tag. It’s like you meet someone and even if they’re the biggest jackass in the universe or keep telling you that they don’t want what you want or they show you, you keep pinning the tail on them or shouting “You’re it!”
Relationships then become this transient desire that’s tied to people not giving them which also means your values around it become transient too.
When you have even less of a clear view of what a healthy relationship looks like, it can seem like your job is to attract someone and then convince and convert them into commitment regardless of what they’re capable of or even what they want.
If you check into a hotel today and complain about the lack of sea view even though you’re bang smack in the middle of a built up area, you’ve either got to accept that the view is the view, or move to a hotel closer to the beach. End of.
In relationships, we become sidetracked because we think, unlike the view from the hotel, that we can change a person or that if we have feelings for them and want the relationship, they should give it, even if they act and say differently.
Instead of knowing what you represent, what does and doesn’t work for you, your priorities etc, you meet someone and they become the vocation that you’re sinking all of your energy into. You don’t do your homework and find out if you have shared values etc – all you know is that you now want a relationship. In fact, it becomes “What values?” This is why I hear from so many women who became focused on getting one man or a series of men to give them relationships they weren’t giving, that are regretting not folding and feeling like they’ve ‘wasted’ their lives.
You can end up wanting a relationship and commitment for the wrong reasons. Instead of it being because you genuinely have a mutual relationship with the foundations for progressing into something that’s potentially long term, you want the relationship because:
It’s not on offer and in fact, you know it many never be on offer so you want to be made the exception to the rule – chasing love against the odds because it seems more ‘worthy’.
You want to be ‘right’ and ‘win’.
You don’t want to admit that you’ve made a mistake.
You think it’s love now (or claim you love), get the relationship qualities later. In fact you may think that love and maybe some common interests and some hot sex is all you need.
They represent a ‘type’ that you’ve had little success with that is actually based on unhealthy ideas about relationships and is even catering to a long held pattern.
You feel like you’ve put in too much time, energy, emotion to turn back now so the least they can do is cough up a relationship.
You just do. Sometimes you want the relationship just ‘because’.
When you genuinely want a relationship that reflects your values, you’ll recognise when you’re around someone that doesn’t want the same things and fold. When you want a relationship from someone even if it’s not on offer, you’ll latch onto their ‘good sense of humour’, their great job, intelligence or status, ‘chemistry’, the fact that you both like Marvel comics and recycling, and claim it feels so ‘right’, when off paper it’s going so wrong.
What you don’t realise when you pin a relationship on a person that isn’t appropriate, is that while you’re trying to ‘get them’ to give you the relationship, you end up having to live by their values to a large extent in order to ‘keep’ them, which in turn leaves you miserable and out of sync with yourself. You’re trying to convince them into your values and they’re sticking to their guns – incompatible.
You’ve got to align yourself with someone that’s on a similar path to you. When you truly want something, you don’t invest a chunk of your life trying to get it from someone that doesn’t want to give it and shows they’re not giving it.
After things ended with the guy with the girlfriend and then the barely there relationship with the next guy for five months, I had to tell myself the truth:
The ‘cheater’ was in no position to offer me a relationship because he was already in one with someone else. I could throw my toys out of the pram, stamp my foot, and throw out ultimatums and threats, but I wanted something that he couldn’t give me. The other guy never actually said that a relationship was on offer. Oh he showboated very quickly out the gate at the beginning, but his actions for about 4.5 out of 5 months were not those of a man with a relationship to offer. When you throw in the fact that there was no direct verbalisation of anything and I was in some very ambiguous territory.
I convinced myself into believing I wanted a relationship from them because it wasn’t on offer so it was like “WTF? It’s not on offer? Why not? Don’t they know who I am? What does this mean about me? Right, I must get them to give me a relationship!” Privately I was very concerned that I wasn’t entirely sure that I wanted the relationship but I had set these missions to prove to myself that I’m good enough to be given a relationship, especially from a reluctant source.
When you genuinely want a relationship, when you find yourself with someone that doesn’t offer one or throws you some half baked excuse for one while telling you that their crumbs are a loaf, you walk.
Stop hammering your square peg and pinning your hopes for a relationship on a ‘type’ that may actually be working against one. Get happy with you, work out who you are and what’s important, and align yourself with a relationship that reflects this instead of only getting the ‘relationship erection’ when you know that one isn’t in the offing or having to ‘suffer’ for your mission. You can tell a lot about what someone truly wants and how they feel about themselves by the relationships they’re in and the people they claim to love. Fact is, if more of us prioritised our self-esteem and our true values, there’d be far less unavailable relationships! You’re the only person you’re in control of, so don’t stand in the way of your own progress.
Love this! I was just like Fearless, i.e. I never was like, “Damn, I wish I had a good relationship.” it was more like, “WHY WON’T {USELESS EX} give me one?! Why am I not good enough? I know he’s ‘dated’ other girls when we weren’t talking. Why not me? I looooove him and it never worked out with any of his girlfriends. {HELLO!} Therefor, I should be a damn girlfriend, because I’m the one who stuck around. {I’m the one who stuck around = I was the one with the lowest self esteem and greatest lack of sense} I know he treats me like crap, but instead of heeding that, I’m going on a Committed Relationship Or Bust mission. Plus, it’s off the chains in the boudoir and we both like to golf. This sh*t is going to work if it kills me.”
If I hadn’t found this blog, I would be going on year SIX of trying to validate myself off of an assclown who had no desire whatsoever to commit to me. Everytime I type that, it stuns me for a good thirty seconds. In that time, was I doing anything to meet a decent guy? Nope. I was too busy focusing on ONE dude like he was…that special (he wasn’t). If someone is not going in the same direction as you are, but is still happy to waste your time, don’t help him by sticking around. At some point, you’ve got to go here for your own sake:
(it really gets rolling at the 2:50 mark)
Lavender
on 21/10/2011 at 11:25 pm
Ohhhhhhh I love that scene!!!! “It’s six years of never being different.”
What’s not great is shortly after they get back together as though nothing happened. Then he jerks her around again at the alter.
Allison
on 22/10/2011 at 1:06 am
You should do stand-up comedy! I always get a laugh out of your comments! 🙂
A
on 22/10/2011 at 2:04 pm
I agree–great scene, although I wish the writers had her do this when she was in a relationship with Aiden (and actually stick to her decision). I kind of hate that the show had her going back to Big. Not a great lesson for women, “hang around indefinitely and maybe that guy will eventually come around!
Lia
on 22/10/2011 at 2:57 pm
Oh my gosh I will forever watch this series from a new perspective. As a teenager I never really saw that situation for what it was. But as an adult, I was taken aback as this scene totally resonated with me (especially that whole radar thing, I’ve said that myself LOL). I feel like she said what a lot of women/men wish they had said, or are not ready to say…
Natasha
on 23/10/2011 at 2:51 pm
True story Lia! That episode aired when I was 22 and I can remeber my girlfriends and I being so happy that Big and Carrie ended up together. My, how things change!
Natasha
on 22/10/2011 at 2:57 pm
@Lavender – Me too! My fav is, “Do you have some kind of radar? Carrie might be happy, it’s time to sweep in and sh*t all over it.” When I watched that ridiculous movie, I was thinking, “Damn girl, you should have stuck with your original sentiments. Even Raoul the chauffeur was probably standing there like, ‘Finally!'”
@Allison – Thank you girl, I’m so glad you enjoy! Humor is a great healer and I think it helped me along tremendously. Yes, my ex is an asshole and the situation was hurtful…but I was being ridiculous. To the extent that at I’ve Lost Count NC, it’s still funny! As my sister put it, “Why are you weeping over a Zero?”
@A – Agreed! My ideal ending would have been that being the final act for her and Mr. Lame. Then Aiden would have shown up in Paris and she’d put the ring on her damn finger this time and marry that fine, furniture-makin’ dude haha!
Allison
on 22/10/2011 at 5:01 pm
I hear you sister!
No more ZEROS!!!!
ThisIsWhereIStopAndUBegin
on 22/10/2011 at 9:08 pm
I had erotic dreams about Mr. Big. What does that tell you??? That’s why I’m here. LOL!
Natasha
on 23/10/2011 at 2:49 pm
That just made me choke on my tea!! That’s why we’re ALL here haha!
p.s. Stringer Bell from The Wire has always done it for me, but I give myself a pass on this one. I mean…IDRIS. ELBA. Come on now. I was relieved to discover that I found him just as attractive as the thoroughly decent John Luther haha!
A
on 22/10/2011 at 11:46 pm
I loved Aiden, he was such a great guy. I watched the last “Aiden episodes” once with commentary by the writers. They said that they had basically paired Carrie with the perfect guy, and had to figure out a way to end it because they couldn’t have the series continue with her in a committed relationship.
It’s even more annoying that they put her with Big in the end, as even the real life “Carrie Bradshaw” didn’t end up with her Mr. Big.
Aimee
on 24/10/2011 at 4:30 pm
I always loved Aiden – couldn’t understand why she gave him up for Mr. AC/Big. But wouldn’t that have made Aiden a fallback guy (like us)??? Just a thought!!
I broke contact last month when the AC called – said he missed me, loved me and effed up. My reply was oh your ready to settle for Aimee now?
Needless to say I am back in no contact and blocked his number again, but I have let it mess with my head, once again. They do have a radar – it’s gross. But if we don’t give them a centimeter they can’t s**t on us? Right? RIGHT!!!
Princessdiamond123
on 22/10/2011 at 7:53 pm
@Natasha:
OMG!!! this scene is AWESOME…this is what happens when a woman is FEDUP she ‘skips town on him’-Agreed…love it when she says, “every time Carries gets happy it’s time to sweep in and mess all over it(so funny-but i feel her pain) & when she says that, “he can drive down the street as much as he wants b/c I don’t live here anymore”,lol (such a good scene)…
I’ve not been a Sex in the City fan because mostly I was living it and didn’t have much time to then watch what I was living but this is a great clip. Thank you for posting it. Drive up and down this street, I don’t care, I don’t live here anymore. Loved it. Let’s all leave for Paris! And, yup the minute they have to face their AC selves, they swoop back down. This brightened my night, thank you. You are all so great!
Lavender
on 21/10/2011 at 11:06 pm
“If you check into a hotel today and complain about the lack of sea view even though you’re bang smack in the middle of a built up area, you’ve either got to accept that the view is the view, or move to a hotel closer to the beach.”
You’ve either got to accept people with their flaws, or move on. And I’ve found that when you’re truly in love with someone, their little flaws become kind of endearing. Stuff that would have driven you mad with someone else become somehow cute. Love is a crazy thing.
Heather
on 22/10/2011 at 12:24 am
Oh, the relationship erection! Thanks so much for putting it this way, Nat: once again you’re right on the money. I’m through chasing only the diffident boys who give me that “I sense he’s not interested and aloof, so he must be The One” erection — and now I have a clear sense of what I want after all. The kicker is, I learned I absolutely do not want to be married and don’t terribly like having men up close around me all the damned time — and chasing this kind of ephemeral soulmate was an ingenious way of making sure no man ever got close enough to be real, and really bother me. Don’t get me wrong, I like penises and think they’re quite magical… I just get very annoyed very quick by the neediness of what’s attached to them. I’m not lesbian, therefore I can’t figure this out. Trying to gives me a headache. This is why a very clever part of me learned to avoid all this nuisance by simply chasing after an unavailable guy and therefore seeming, to myself and everyone else, “normal”.
What do you call a heterosexual girl who likes the occasional shag, as you Brits call it, with a guy, but otherwise can’t be arsed, as you Brits also say, to have him around at all afterward? Whatever that is… I am. Thanks Nat!
Cheryl
on 22/10/2011 at 10:48 am
It’s called being an EUW or Emotionally Unavailable Woman. I don’t mean that as a slight, I’ve spent the last 14 years being one myself. Nat has some great articles here on the subject. You should check them out and see if one resonates with you.
Lynda from L
on 22/10/2011 at 11:19 am
Heather, you made me laugh but….I think us Brits would call you a EUW!(given the content of your article….c’mon own it Girl!?
molly
on 22/10/2011 at 12:37 pm
Not wanting a relationship doesn’t necessarily mean a person is emotionally unavailable in the sense that it is used on this forum. Relationships aren’t for everybody, but where you have to be true to yourself is in being honest with the men in your life about what you want.
If you want occasional rolls in the hay without any commitments, then that is what you tell the men you meet. You don’t have to pretend you want something else. When you pretend like that, you’re doing what these EUMs do!
Just be honest. I’ve gone through periods in my life when I didn’t want a long term relationship. Hell, when I was in graduate school, I just wanted to get laid without ANY strings attached, but the guys knew this. There’s nothing wrong with that.
“Emotionally unavailable” IMO has a negative connotation on this forum – it seems to relate to the people we attach to who are incapable of being honest about their feelings and getting their needs met. Besides which “emotionally unavailable” is not a clinical term anyway. But the truth is that we already KNOW that many of the men we are dating are EU but we CHOOSE to ignore it.
The bottom line is that it comes down to HONESTY. Be honest about what you want. You’re not “abnormal” because you want sex without commitment. Everybody’s needs are different. A long term relationship is just one way we can live our lives. There are other ways to live and interact with men too.
But whatever it is that you want, you just need to be honest about it. What’s “abnormal” is lying to a guy to get it, or pretending you want something else.
imfree
on 21/10/2011 at 11:38 pm
I’m guilty as charged. You took the words out of my mouth – I didn’t want ‘any old relationship’ (I even thought wanting ‘a’ relationship was a bit, well distasteful, or strange) I wanted to be with my AC, and what ever that took i was willing to do/overlook as I only had my eye on the prize. I ignored the mental gymnastics I had to do to get the prize.
Naturally the AC prize being the main aim (rather than my happiness) meant my focus was on him, and i never actually took a step back to think about what I wanted out of a relationship or what made me happy, guess I didn’t know my own values. It was easier to try and take on his than to figure my own out.
Fearless
on 22/10/2011 at 11:20 am
I’mFree:
“I didn’t want ‘any old relationship’ (I even thought wanting ‘a’ relationship was a bit, well distasteful, or strange)”
Yes. Me too – somehow distasteful or strange – exactly! WTF was I thinking????
Natasha: Me too. Your whole comment is me! Wanting a “relationship” – any old relationship was too fuzzy an idea – I wanted a particular man… and when he wouldn’t step up to my plate I stepped right down to his – and it made me miserable (it’s still kinda making me miserable, though I see the total sense in EVERYTHING Natalie has said. I see the problem now.
Natalie: Thanks for this post. Every word is “me”. But I don’t want to be that woman any more! I knew and I knew and I knew time and time again that I was barking up the wrong tree and yet I couldn’t stop barking. I tried many times to drop the whole thing but I always caved in – I see now that was because I didn’t understand myself, my motives or the whole dynamic and I didn’t take my own misgivings seriously enough; I wasn’t for giving in!
One thing you said keeps running through my head: that I wanted the relationship for all the *wrong* reasons. I had never thought of that before. It’s so, so true and I will give a lot of thought to that one from now now on; it also helps me to move on from the aftermath of the ex EUM as I see exactly what you mean by that. Almost all relationships I have wanted, I have wanted for all the wrong reasons; it’s hardly any wonder that I am still single! I just hope it’s not too late for me to make a good relationship for all the right reasons with the right guy.
Thanks Nat x
Natasha
on 22/10/2011 at 3:01 pm
“…and when he wouldn’t step up to my plate I stepped right down to his – and it made me miserable.”
Ahhh Fearless, you are one wise woman. That is exactly what I did too! All while fronting that I expected him to step up to it. Heeeelllloooo?! This is why we had to kick their arses right off the pedestal. Those pedestals belong in an Assclown Museum where future generations can learn from our mistakes. The plaques would read something like, “Circa 2007: She thought he was the love of her life. He texted her when he had nothing better to do. No cameras, please. The woman involved is still cringing over it.”
Fearless
on 22/10/2011 at 6:43 pm
Aaaahh Natasha, sadly, I don’t feel one bit like one wise woman. I feel like a twit! I get all the theory…. and that’s about my lot. Pfft. I haven’t seen this good for nothing ass*ole (ex) since April (before that not since late July last year) and I still have days when I have to try really hard not to reach out to him (that’s how much of a twit I am!). I always knew that if I walked away he’d let me go, and pretty easily; that always hurt – and still hurts (tho’ not nearly so bad now).
I like the plaque idea – too funny! Yes, def. no cameras please!
Natasha
on 23/10/2011 at 3:01 pm
Fearless, I hear that. Everytime my ex “pops up”, I feel like a twit. It’s normal and we all go through it at some point! I still think you are incredibly wise – you have such an on-point grasp of these situations. I have a feeling that your ex isn’t bothering you because your good sense is obvious to him too. Just because it takes some effort on your part not to reach out to him, doesn’t mean you have yourself any less together…because you stop yourself from doing it!
My problem isn’t wanting to reach out, it’s that I have to stop myself from responding. Sometimes, I have to take a walk around the block to stop myself from telling him to leave me alone for umpteenth time (I could hire a skywriter to fly over his house and write “Natasha dislikes you.” and it probably still wouldn’t sink in.). NC is about action and, from where I’m sitting, you’re doing it right!
Leisha
on 23/10/2011 at 3:05 pm
Fearless, You loved…some people never allow themselves that opening after being burnt…keep your love alive and keep learning and remember the good that comes out of it all…shoot it led you to this community…and it continues to teach you about yourself…so you love him it’s okay…wish him love and keep on going with your capacity to love and appreciate yourself and the wonderful woman that you are…this life is for learning and giving and even a bed of roses has those thorns…and the most beautiful roses still carry their scent and put it out for others to enjoy…keep the faith.
Nat great article…I love the part of you need to find someone on a path similar to yours…
We are all teachers and students…
Fearless
on 23/10/2011 at 11:23 pm
Natasha and Leisha,
thank you so much for your support – it means a great deal to me as I don’t discuss any of this with anyone beyond BR (I guess cos I played “him” down for so long – goes to show I knew not to make a big deal out nothing!). Yes, I think the ex EUM knows he’s just one big relationship disaster. Ultimately, I knew all along that it was all wrong; I am coming to accept that I did this to myself.
I was reading a biography last night and was struck by the subject having said that one of life’s common experiences had never happened to him – he’d never been ‘in love’. This got me thinking about the topic of this post. I think most people see ‘relationships’ like that. I did. I expected (or hoped) to “fall in love” – and we don’t fall in love with ‘relationships’ we fall in love with people. So is it foolish to harbour the notion of falling in love? I guess the answer is ‘yes’ if the person you’re falling in love with has no or limited capacity to love you back and being in love with them is only going to make you miserable. For some reason I assumed that I couldn’t choose who I fell in love with – I see now that maybe I can (or that I should have).
Ohbrother
on 21/10/2011 at 11:51 pm
I love this post! They always seem to come at the right times. Here’s the deal though… I’m completely confused on how to accept “the view is the view”?!?! Through the issues behind “the view” there are underlying mutual values and qualities that we share. So its there and there is love but how do I move past the fact that my boyfriend is dependent on helping his recovering adict brother who lives in his bedroom and completely depends on him for EVERYTHING from $$ to entertainment. How????
Fighting for Freedom
on 22/10/2011 at 9:17 am
There’s a show that comes on in the States called ‘Intervention’ on the network A&E. Google it and check out a few episodes (available on A&E website). The series really illustrates the role that enablers play in addiction. Often enablers are told by interventionists to go to codependents anonymous meetings, that helping addicts is an addiction in and of itself. Believe it or not, it is quite common for enablers to suffer similar consequences as substance addicts (bankruptcy, loss of homes/ jobs, inability to maintain healthy romantic relationships). This may help you understand the dynamics that may be happening here. That said, if he is unwilling to let his brother take responsibility for his lifestyle, this is another case of ‘the view is the view’ and you may have to jump ship. You deserve someone who treats you as their #1 priority no matter what is going on. Period. Best wishes, lots of hugs, stay strong!
Fedup
on 21/10/2011 at 11:56 pm
I’ve found that slot of them do lie about what they want. They DO tell you they want a relationship with you. Then x months or whatever later you get dumped. Then they’re with someone else.
Fearless
on 22/10/2011 at 11:32 am
Yes, fedup, my ex EUM insisted that he did want to be with me – to buy a house together (to even have a child together!), but his actions belied these words… and he was not exactly insistent upon them! He was full of his own bullshit, basically. I argued with him at times that he didn’t want any of these things and he insisted that he did – that he just had to “sort himself out” – this ‘argument’ went on (intermittently) for years until I stopped pressing him about it and when I stopped pressing him, hey presto, he stopped telling me he wanted to be with me. Putting any weight on his words when I knew they didn’t hold any water was just an excuse for me to stay in it.
Lynda from L
on 22/10/2011 at 4:28 pm
With you Fed Up and Fearless, I was duped in same way…promises of me being the next Mrs……, ‘the proposal would be on the table in six months!’plans to move me from my city to his(we even talked over utility bills etc), I started looking for jobs near him, made provision for my adult son to live in my house, all encouraged by the EUM. He sold a house he had part ownership of as it would help’create’ a future for us. Then I found he was still sniffing round dating sites and sending ‘offers of sex’ to an ex girlfriend and that he had probably had a fall back girl(s) all his life. This gave him comfort and control whilst promising me the world.
You know, I do not obsess about this anymore because on some level I knew he was shady. My work today is on me and how I was so bent out of shape that I put up with it for so long. trusting your gut instinct is so important to me these days.
molly
on 22/10/2011 at 12:24 pm
I agree that they’re going to tell you what you want to hear, and they know we want to hear that they want a relationship.
But you can still keep your feelers up and make sure you are evaluating their behavior in relation to their words as you are going. Yeah it’s true we can still get blindsided x months down the road because “we never saw it coming and they said they wanted it” but just evaluate-evaluate-evaluate – usually there will be clues and cues as you are dating that things are not what they seem.
The minute you pick up on those, either bail, or give it the three strikes rule – they get three incidents of bad behavior and then they’re gone.
The last guy I was with started his weird performances with our first date. He was about 40 minutes late without an excuse. I told him if he was late again he needed to be respectful enough to tell me in advance and /or reschedule. The late thing never happened again, but there were other weird things going on, like never being available on a Friday night, etc.
So yeah they can lie to us but you have to keep your antennae up for the cues that their behavior is not matching their words.
AngelFace
on 25/10/2011 at 10:36 pm
Molly,
I believe in the ‘Quick Screening Process’ now too. I had been emailing a man who sounded good on paper, however when I talked to him on phone could tell he was a negative, and possibly depressed/jaded man. I told him I am unable to date him. Never even gave this one a chance at first date. NEXT!
AngelFace
on 25/10/2011 at 10:33 pm
They move on quickly… and hurt the next one same way – because they don’t take the time to learn or improve themselves.
AngelFace
on 25/10/2011 at 10:38 pm
Fedup:
My X is already with someone else… He kept promising to take me for a weekend to a cabin on lake. He took her, plus she got a couple of restaurant dates with him. This hurts a bit – but when I reinforce to myself who she is actually having to deal with, and all the lies and trouble and abuse headed her way….. I am not jealous and the pain is a little less. I also know his style is a sexual predator narcissist who always has a coral of women he can contact for his need to be met. He has NO INTEGRETITY, and is careless with other people’s lives.
cavewoman
on 21/10/2011 at 11:59 pm
Wonderful Natalie, thank you.
Those words from Fearless made me nod so hard my brain was getting all jiggled inside. I’ve been noticing that I hardly have a clue what a happy, calm, peaceful, wholesome, safe relationship feels like. Okay. Back up… I hardly have a clue what a happy, calm, peaceful, wholesome, safe me feels like. No one EVER told me that those are prerequisites to love, not goals. (Not my mother for sure.) I grew up around enough harsh criticism that if I’m feeling insecure and doubtful, it’s just business as usual.
I think we have to be able to reject those feelings before we can reject the people who trigger them. Shifting to, opting for, something simple, healthy, constructive, worthy, wholesome. All the time. Every minute of the day, until it’s who we are.
Amazing, how tricky it is to learn to live with self respect and integrity if it wasn’t an early gift in life. Then once it gets more automatic, when some male prospect comes along, I’ll opt in or out because that’s how I’m living my life anyway, always moving towards the good feelings with good conscience. I have opted out a couple of times since I’ve gone NC and I never wonder what I was missing.
Fearless
on 22/10/2011 at 12:53 pm
Cave:
“I think we have to be able to reject those feelings before we can reject the people who trigger them.”
I am with you on that cave; Like you, when I felt like that it seemed like ‘business as usual’ – I didn’t quite realise that I was allowed to reject those feelings; that I was allowed to expect NOT to feel like that! I know now; and I am now very aware of how people (in whatever area of my life) make me feel, and I now feel permitted to reject those feelings and remove or distance myself from people who trigger them. It’s a terrible thing to feel that you are somehow not worthy of putting your own welfare or emotional well-being at the top end of your priority list.
cavewoman
on 24/10/2011 at 2:46 am
YES Fearless the ‘trigger people’! Only a fraction of them are actually consciously pushing our buttons… But so what? Who cares if they’re doing it or I’m “making it up”. Here’s where I trip up: my synapses start firing and the brain lights up like a Christmas tree trying to compute, Is this guy an assclown, or a gentleman with honourable intentions? What if he is trying to be a decent nice guy, shouldn’t a nice girl like Fearless or Cavewoman stick it out and roll with the punches in the name of love or friendship? It’s gonna sting every time I so much as think about this man, but hey I’m a tough cookie! etc.
I love AdriennebytheSea’s counselor’s observation about the ‘diminished self’. I too was raised to ‘quit whining’ with ‘no talking back’ and ‘don’t be so selfish’, so I tend to be a bit of a doormat. Doing what feels right and being true to yourself are such alien ideas that to my ears the former honestly sounds like a recipe for disaster and the latter a corny cliche!
Fearless
on 24/10/2011 at 1:36 pm
Yes, cave; I remember being very frustrated with my parents when I was a child and a teenager… in fact right into adulthood! I felt I was never listened to; my views and my issues, which I thought were fair enough, were ignored/dismissed. I didn’t have a voice that my parents thought was worth listening to – my mother now (quietly) knows I was in fact absolutely right about so many things that I tried to raise with them (in time, I was proved right and if I’d been listened to much of the shit that happened could have been avoided, or handled more effectively). I would like to read more about the ‘diminished self’; I find that interesting too.
Being dismissed, having to fall in with what everyone else thought was a good idea (even if I didn’t) and then being expected to help deal with the ensuing shit, feeling voiceless and not mattering very much was all business as usual for me! I always knew when shit was happening but I never felt I could control it – I guess I learned to be ‘passive’. I am not having any of that any more. i want to control what happens around me and what happens to me. I was away with some family at the week for a few days, some behaviour (drink related) I found to be very selfish and inconsiderate, I got up the following day, spoke to no-one, got in my car and drove myself home – I felt bad about it; am till wondering if i over-reacted and am a prudish pain in the ass; but know what? it made me feel that i didn’t matter, that I had n control over what happened TO me and around me – it triggered those feelings, so I simply refused to engage as if nothing had bothered me; as if nothing had happened; people who misbehave with drink expect everyone else who has had to put up with them to have selective amnesia the next morning. Not me. Not any more. Yes, changes are afoot!
AdrienneBytheSea
on 22/10/2011 at 2:37 pm
Cavewoman, your posting really hit home with me when you wrote: “I hardly have a clue what a happy, calm, peaceful, wholesome, safe me feels like. No one EVER told me that those are prerequisites to love, not goals. (Not my mother for sure.) I grew up around enough harsh criticism that if I’m feeling insecure and doubtful, it’s just business as usual….I think we have to be able to reject those feelings before we can reject the people who trigger them. Shifting to, opting for, something simple, healthy, constructive, worthy, wholesome. All the time. Every minute of the day, until it’s who we are.”
I was speaking with my counselor this week exactly about this: how I have made choices in my life (career, relationships, money, etc.) from a “diminished self” — and as my counselor said, after a while, you start to believe that your “diminished self” is your authentic self! But, of course, it’s not! Like you, no one (certainly not my mother) ever modeled good self-esteem behavior nor exactly encouraged it in me–I got a lot of mixed messages growing up with a healthy dose of not being acknowledged/seen as a person, let alone a person whose needs should be important and separate from other people’s. I just love what you wrote–this is what I am working on, too, being happy, whole, safe as myself, first, so that the choices I make in future (all of them in my entire life) are aligned with who *I* really am and what supports *me* as my “exalted self.” I am working on rejecting those diminishing feelings in myself so that I can firmly hit the *flush* when other people bring them ’round. Your post really articulated what I am experiencing right now–thanks so much, Cavewoman! Cheers to you! 🙂
Lily
on 22/10/2011 at 8:01 pm
Cavewoman,
I so relate to what your’e saying. It takes courage, daily discipline and awareness to shift to the place of self love and make these feelings your normal way of living. I am really learning this finally in my 46th year….and what I notice is that when I live from an authentic place of self love, I seem to talk less, because I am not looking for approval or validation. When I talk now, it is from a real place….once you learn this way of living you can’t go back to the way you were…to a place of just reacting to whatever comes across your path and inviting anyone in your life just because they like you….that’s not enough now and it will never be enough… anymore…what a relief and what a sense of freedom.
runnergirl
on 22/10/2011 at 12:18 am
Oh Natalie, I’ve so been looking forward to your insights on Fearless’ comments about being focused on “who” not “what”. Since Fearless’ comments, I’ve been thinking about how I’ve bought into the “who” regardless of what the “who” had on offer. My who’s have never had anything to offer but I was so determined to pin the tail on on donkey, I beat that three legged donkey into the ground repeatedly, telling him what a no good worthless donkey he was, I threw my toys off the pram, stamped my foot, and spewed ultimatums like comet showers. To no avail. How humilating for me. Of course, I didn’t have the foggiest clue what a healthy relationship could be, I just figured he was it and he better reciprocate because I’d given so much, cough up the relationship goddammit cos I said so .
It turned upside down when I started thinking about what I wanted instead of who. As I’ve focused on what I want, it screens out the 3 legged donkeys. I hit on this in my first week of NC when I starting journaling about my goals. I want a healthy relationship based on love, respect, and trust. I want to be number one. I wrote in my journal 10 months ago something like: If you want a healthy relationship, stay NC with the MM. If you want to be an option, call the MM now. If my goal is to have a healthy relationship, the MM gets flushed. Natasha, I’m stunned too. OW’s, MM’s are only to happy to waste your time. What do you want, not who do you want? Can you get what you deserve from being an OW? I identified with Nat’s decription of booking the room on the freeway overpass and wanting the room on the white sand beach.
Natasha
on 22/10/2011 at 3:04 pm
Runner, no matter what flavor of EUM/AC we were each involved with, I think a very common thread in these stories is, “WTF was I thinking?!” I think it’s a very positive sign, because it means that the abnormal has ceased to appear normal!
blueberry girl
on 22/10/2011 at 5:31 pm
@ Natasha
“WTF was I thinking?!” I think it’s a very positive sign, because it means that the abnormal has ceased to appear normal!
I had one of these moments a few days ago and I feel so free and at peace today! Watching my “crush,” drunk yet again off his a**, take mean potshots at his roommate and basically being a total jerk, had me sitting across the room banging my head like “I shoulda had a V-8.” What the ef was I thinking? I refuse to let anyone in my life who doesn’t treat me (and others) with care, respect, love, dignity, VALUE ~ be they male, female, canine, feline, equine…
runnergirl
on 23/10/2011 at 12:03 am
Natasha, you are too funny and keep me grounded. I loved your AC Museum comment. It’s got be a very, very large building based on the comments on this blog. I’m thinking the AC Museum should be on Balboa Island, Newport Beach, California. There are ferris wheels and roller roasters, white sand beaches, toasty weather, and tons of AC/EUM/MM’s. I’d like the AC/EUM/MM’s to see themselves in a museum, all lined up with plaques that read how much they hurt us. I’m still coming to grips with this post. I did it, repeatedly: “It’s like you meet someone and even if they’re the biggest jackass in the universe or keep telling you that they don’t want what you want or they show you, you keep pinning the tail on them or shouting “You’re it!” CRINGE, SMACK, HEAD DESK, FACE PLANT, WTF. I obviously wasn’t thinking. I wasn’t even operating in the same universe. Gotta get out of my fantasy universe ASAP. Gotta go now cos I gotta go kick my arse all around my backyard.
Fearless
on 23/10/2011 at 11:57 am
Runner,
“obviously wasn’t thinking. I wasn’t even operating in the same universe. ”
Me too. Can you give my arse a boot about the yard while your at it!
I actually used to say to a friend of mine re the EUM – ‘it’s not as if I’d be putting up with his crap if someone better came along / if someone better came along the EUM wouldn’t see me for dust, but I’m hardly beating them off with a stick!”
Oh dear… no one better was EVER going to come along while I was investing myself in a whole pile of nothing. Yet, I would deny that the EUM was holding me back – I can see now that he SO was!! Emotionally, I was completely and utterly stagnant. I now find myself noticing quite a lot of attractive men around my own age (just in the passing), and yet I would never have noticed them before – cue Art Garfunkel: ‘I only have eyes for you….’
Duh.
Natasha
on 23/10/2011 at 3:06 pm
“It’s got be a very, very large building based on the comments on this blog.”
Ahhh Runner, you crack me up too!! 🙂 I’m totally down with having the Museum on Balboa Island. I’m not sure if you’re an Arrested Development fan, but if you are, you know that we could hire Lucille Bluth to give relationship advice and Gob could come in and do a magic show.
Don’t be so hard on yourself sister, we all have to kick our little bums around the backyard a time or two (or approximately 37, in my case).
jupiter23
on 24/10/2011 at 7:56 am
runnergirl and fearless,
Yes, when I was seeing the exEUM, it was hard for me to even think about dating anyone else. I remember (I was 21 or 22 then, 25 now), this cute, sweetheart had asked me out. I had one conversation with him and never answered his calls again.
Every time the “cute sweetheart” would call me I would hope it was the EUM calling and would often break down and call the EUM. During those early days, there were a lot of guys asking me out–mostly because the job I was doing had me out and about but I was so “in love” I couldn’t think about dating any one else. When I did go on dates, it would just make me sad about the EUM.
But I can’t regret any of those guys just because the experience I had with the EUM caused me to go to graduate school, move across the country, and basically get my sh*t together. I had some more run-ins with the EUM, but as soon as I put distance and NC between us for long periods, I could date others.
I knew I was okay when I went out on a date with someone–felt absolutely no sparks, knew I would never date him again, and still felt good for having a nice conversation and dinner. It was a blind date, and he wouldn’t let me pay for anything (got to love that!) If I still had the EUM in my life, I would have been in tears when I got home. NC is the only way.
Natasha
on 23/10/2011 at 3:07 pm
Blueberry Girl, I think it’s a very good sign when we get to ther point where it’s like, “Remind me again, what did I ever find attractive about your character? *CRICKETS*” Good for you for flushing this one!!
runnergirl
on 23/10/2011 at 10:06 pm
Fearless, Natasha, & Blueberry Girl,
Fearless, I spared you a kick in the bum. I figure you are doing fine in that department. “Oh dear… no one better was EVER going to come along while I was investing myself in a whole pile of nothing.” I did it too. My Miss Self-Sufficient justification/fanstasy was that I could date any time and the exMM “wasn’t in my way”. Of course, he was. I was so blinded by what he wasn’t offering and so busy trying to the tail on that particular donkey, I wouldn’t have noticed if Brad Pitt showed up at my doorstep. In any event, we are in a better place now, right?
Natasha, I was thinking that rather than an AC Museum, we need to do an AC/EUM GRAVEYARD filled with their tombstones. They’d just see their statue in the museum, admire themselves, and ignore the plaque. A cold, dark, damp boneyard filled with tombstones with vampires roaming around. I’m not an Arrested Development fan but it sounds like a fitting analogy. I feel like my development was more than arrested!
Blueberrygirl…”I shoulda had a V-8″ made me howl! Good for you girl. Thank you all and thank you Natalie for helping me get some clarity even if it is painfully humiliating. WTF!
runnergirl
on 24/10/2011 at 3:13 am
Natalie and Fearless,
I LOVE the 10 Commandments and the links to the articles. Natalie, placing articles in the context of smart dating is brilliant. You have a fabulous knack with context and connecting the dots. I’ve been re-reading the articles hit on your amazing insight in the article on being an option which directly relates to pinning the tail on this particular unavailable donkey. Natalie wrote: “Being an option means you’re uncommitted and they’re uncommitted.
It also means that you’re prevented from having the choice to be available for an available relationship because being someone’s option shuts you off to other opportunities. Don’t believe me? If you’ve ever tried to date while being an option for someone, you’ll have struggled to be emotionally present and correct because you’re unavailable and into the person you’ve optioned yourself to.
You’ll never be able to move on with your life, feel a sense of personal contentment and forge a happier, mutually fulfilling relationship with someone that values you, if you’re option for someone else that doesn’t or only values you for what they can get out of you on their terms.”
That’s it in a nutshell Fearless. No wonder I couldn’t date or move on because I was too busy being his option and too busy doing the backbreaking work in putting my “bucket down an empty commitment well in the hope that on the gazillionth try, some commitment water will finally come up”. I won’t describe what actually came up! Glad it did cos it needed to come up so I can unload it and move forward. How exciting.
Fearless
on 24/10/2011 at 1:20 pm
Runner:
“Don’t believe me? If you’ve ever tried to date while being an option for someone, you’ll have struggled to be emotionally present and correct because you’re unavailable and into the person you’ve optioned yourself to.”
Yes, that struck a serious chord with me when I first read it. It’s so true – we are kidding ourselves on if we think we are “free to date” when we’re occupying option status for some absentee, time-wasting user. I struggled to be emotionally present even when I was at various social occasions, never mind dates, because I was always wishing “he” was there with me or that I was with “him” instead. Pfft. No more!
Used
on 24/10/2011 at 8:11 pm
Thank you, Natasha, for a great laugh, the best one this month, w/your “crickets” aside. How true!
I finally feel this way about EVERY EUM who has come, is coming, and will come, into my life.
Princessdiamond 123
on 24/10/2011 at 2:39 am
I’ll say it for the record…”WTH?? was I thinking??”… I have to admit that I’ve said it a lot of times as well,lol, but it’s ironic that I prolly wasn’t ‘thinking’ (critically) at all (a relationship2nowhere), Wow,oh well, And This Too Shall Pass…
Sweetheart
on 22/10/2011 at 12:31 am
I really needed to see this. I will read it over and over until I get me right on this topic!!! Thank you!
EmJay
on 22/10/2011 at 12:44 am
Natasha! That’s brilliant. Your comment completely echoes my story with a useless ex and isn’t it amazing once you see the light (after those blinkers come off!) Nat, great post as usual xXx ps. “Off the chains in the boudoir” Love this expression 😀
Natasha
on 22/10/2011 at 3:06 pm
EmJay, it’s so true how similar a lot of our experiences are…all further evidence that none of these guys are special 😉
p.s. I use the term “boudoir” as much as possible, as it always makes me think of Blanche Devereux haha!
Magdalena
on 22/10/2011 at 12:54 am
I finally kind of started to get that the ex-EUM couldn’t offer me commitment or a relationship or anything even remotely worth having when I started to visualize my demands for a committed relationship from an unlikely source as actual tangible things, such as ridiculously huge sums of cash.
The relationship dynamic, then, was as follows:
Me: “GIVE ME A MILLION DOLLARS!”
Him: “I’ve told you over and over and over again! I don’t have a million dollars! How many times do I have to tell you before you get it?”
Me (screaming): “I DESERVE A MILLION DOLLARS BECAUSE I’VE MADE SO MANY SACRIFICES FOR YOU AND PUT MY LIFE ON HOLD AND REDUCED MY EXPECTATIONS AND ACCEPTED YOUR CRAP BEHAVIOR AND PUT YOU ON A PEDESTAL AND GIVEN YOU EVERYTHING! YOU OWE ME A MILLION DOLLARS!”
Him: “Um, yeah…so I still don’t have a million dollars to give you, even if I wanted to, which I don’t. But I do have two pennies, if you’re still interested? Oh, apparently you *are* still interested in two pennies instead of million dollars, since you’re still around…”
Me: (sobbing)
And the light started to dawn about how insanely absurd, embarrassing, and futile my behavior really had been and that if I ever wanted committed and healthy relationship, I was going to have to look elsewhere.
I’m now looking elsewhere.
Cheers.
(Note: I used a ridiculously huge pile of money as a visualization tool and as an analogy, not because I place a high value on money and socio-economic status per se, but just to demonstrate the absurdity of my demand for something impossible for him to give me. Feel free to modify the analogy in any way that might make more sense! Carry on!)
Fighting for Freedom
on 22/10/2011 at 9:04 am
Mags- brilliant brain exercise!! I love this, totally going to use this! Thank you!
molly
on 22/10/2011 at 12:44 pm
Great analogy. 🙂
Princessdiamond123
on 22/10/2011 at 7:28 pm
@Magdalena (really like ur name,nice:))
This post is AWESOME, lol, ….I see it, makes sense!!
AngelFace
on 22/10/2011 at 12:56 am
I put my “reluctant source” of an X into No Contact. He had several attributes that were positive, and with those I shaped my desire for him and wanted him in my present and future life. However, such a roller coaster as his negative attributes pounded out. His verbal abuse, lack of empathy, lies, cheating with other women…These wore on me and made me suffer – but still I was holding on to him…and the thought of him as a good man, which he isn’t.
With the help of Baggage Reclaim, Natalie, and all who post, I am taking back my power and my life and my joy. I still have my bad days, but am doing my best to take care of myself, and to heal.
I lowered my boundaries and my values out of sheer loneliness and lack of a relationship with a man. Was without relationship for over five years, and by the time this man walked into my life – and we were instantly attracted and drawn to each other – I was nearly desparate for him. Then I was reluctant, but willing to let him “drive” the relationship, and I had hopes he would Love Me, pick me, and be with me. But he cheated on me at same time secretely, with multiple women. So now it is over.
I have date number 4 tomorrow night with a so far, very good and decent man. He is not a typical ‘type’, and as he is far more quiet and reserved than who I normally date, I sit back and observe him…. and know he is already giving me so much more RESPECT and kindness and consideration, and that our values seem to be lining up., he is giving me so much more than the X who I now have in No Contact… The one that made my heart pound, but who was destroying me.
The man I thought was the Ritz is a skid-row vacant flop house with a bit of sparkly facade from when first built. My eyes are open to see the truth, and to not settle for something I do not deserve. Thanks Nat!!!
snh
on 24/10/2011 at 7:16 am
@AngelFace – so happy to read this. It sounds like you are well on your way to you. 🙂 I went on date #1 last night. For the first time, in my life, I LISTENED to the answers I got from the questions I asked. I’m a journalist by training so I’m always asking questions – what I realised last night though, was that when I asked guys questions it was simply so THEY would see how interesting, and interested, and intelligent, and witty, and charming I was. But I went deaf when they answered my questions. I mean, clearly I went deaf – because I got involved with my ex! It was about getting THEM to like ME instead of gauging their answers against my standards. Last night, though, I actually listened to the answers to my questions and lo and behold, he said something that required further exploration. So I asked a follow-up question, and another and another…I was so interested in the answer to my question (aka. I was more interested in figuring out whether he was someone *I* was willing to go on date #2 with) that I actually didn’t care whether he liked my questions or not. They just had to be asked because, I realised, NO CONTACT HAD WORKED ITS MAGIC. All the hard work I had put into no contact (interesting how no contact can be such hard work), and all the work I put into being with myself, dealing with me, re-aligning my values (which I had compromised severely to be with my ex) getting myself back and focusing on my life and happiness was paying off naturally. All of a sudden HE wasn’t the prize. My happiness was the prize. And the question became: does he fit? Boy. It was life changing to date consciously for once. Granted it’s date #1. I have no expectations one way or the other. I am, deep down, so happy with who I am, what I’m accomplishing and where I’m going that there isn’t room for someone who shouldn’t be there. Thank you Natalie.
Fearless
on 24/10/2011 at 12:57 pm
snh:
“All of a sudden HE wasn’t the prize. My happiness was the prize.”
I think that’s a great way to describe the topic here. Thanks for putting that so succinctly. For me the prize was always “him” and in constantly trying to win the prize I was compromising my own happiness – I was actually miserable (that was the real prize – misery!).
You are spot on – the prize is not a “him”, it’s my own happiness. Love that. That will help me, thanks.
snh
on 25/10/2011 at 5:50 am
Fearless: I’m happy that resonated with you. Really happy. 🙂 I’ve heard it said before, ‘the road is hard. love softens it.’ – I’m realising now that this elusive love that I’ve been searching for to soften the road of my life is, in fact, the love I give myself through doing the things that are right by me. They have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with a man. It’s been pretty revolutionary for me. I realised the other night, after the date, how important this really hard, frankly quite painful time alone with myself has been because the truth is, there are no baggage-free people, let alone men, out there. Which made me see how important it is for me to be a whole person pursuing my own life, seeking only a complement -not a “fill” for the void. There’s no other safeguard against other people, men included, other than self love – which I’ve come to interpret as doing (actions… like NO CONTACT) the things that are conducive to my happiness and balance. And relentlessly counter-acting/thinking/saying anything that would hurt me – even if that action or thought was, gasp, self-generated. I’m a work in progress – the key word being progress.
Marina
on 22/10/2011 at 1:10 am
I could not relate to this article MORE Natalie, literally every word! THIS is my problem in a nutshell– trying to extract “relationships” from unlikely sources (and you described it PERFECTLY by describing it as a “backbreaking mission,” because that’s EXACTLY what it feels like!). Worst of all, is that these men tell me outright that they have problems and are too f-ed up to have a relationship with me, and yet… IT DOESN’T STOP ME! In a sense, the tragic thing is, I seem to pick men who are least GOOD ENOUGH to be honest enough to TELL ME that they will only hurt me and not give me what I deserve.
The thing I perhaps MOST identified with, is how you were talking about wanting a relationship with not just ANY man, but with a PARTICULAR man, and just focusing on that man, no matter how inappropriate he is. Worst of all was this last incident with a man I fell for who basically did everything BUT say he’s gay (but he pretty much spelled it out). And now I’m actually upset that he’s stopped calling and that he no longer acts like my “boyfriend,” when he never really was, and the reason for it is as basic as him not being attracted to women! Yet I am taking this personally, feeling like he was surely different for his ex “girlfriends,” even though they all cheated on him which proves he wasn’t satisfying them that way.
I am very upset with myself that I am in this mess again, because this new man is completely different from my ex, except for now his clear unavailability. But this is one of your best articles Natalie. I can relate to every word, every analogy. I’ve been putting that “bucket” down the empty “well” for years now, and naturally, it always comes up empty. ;(
Sammy
on 22/10/2011 at 1:37 am
Oddly enough I have never experienced this. I always have known what I wanted from a partner and what I can give. I have experienced the mismatching of talk and actions, but then I walk and get out before it is too late. The last relationship I prolonged the inevitable because I was making excuses for his behavior, but in the end, it was the right thing to do for me even though I was quite miserable before and immediately after. It sucked because I cared about him and he probably never cared about me.
Julie
on 22/10/2011 at 3:03 am
I spent 4 long years trying to get my Mr Unavailable to commit, but he always had an excuse for not giving me what i wanted. It was such a waste of time and energy and i wish i could have spent my time looking after myself instead, or even dating available men. I was thinking along the lines of: ” ive put so much time and energy into this so im not gonna fold now, this bastards gonna give me what i deserve!”
I came to my senses thankfully after finding BR and found out it wasnt just me causing all the problems. I blamed myself for too long and totally lost myself in all the drama. Now i know he is just as much responsible and it wasnt me just imagining things, he is Not Available for a healthy relationship!!! BOTTOM LINE!!!
Princessdiamond123
on 22/10/2011 at 5:04 am
Omg, this is the TRUTH!!
Didn’t do the HW for that dude & didn’t check his values in detail to see if they were aligned with mine, had I done that I would have ran for the nearest exit like ‘a bat out of hell’! I’ve learned that he had very different values than mine, we were raised differently, different culture, country,etc.. his values were widely flexible in comparison to mine(he loved more freely as if it was okay for him to adopt more than one wife or lover,etc.)- therefore-so not compatible!
Agree with this entire post, wish I had this knowledge b4 I would have chosen better for myself…Thx :-)!
NML, I agree whole heartedly….
“What you don’t realise when you pin a relationship on a person that isn’t appropriate, is that while you’re trying to ‘get them’ to give you the relationship, you end up having to live by their values to a large extent in order to ‘keep’ them, which in turn leaves you miserable and out of sync with yourself. You’re trying to convince them into your values and they’re sticking to their guns – incompatible.”
“You’ve got to align yourself with someone that’s on a similar path to you. When you truly want something, you don’t invest a chunk of your life trying to get it from someone that doesn’t want to give it and shows they’re not giving it.”
brenda
on 22/10/2011 at 5:44 am
What a great Post!But no surprise there!
My Mom and I had went for a walk today and I was telling her all about this site and Nat,and saying I am finding closure,strenght,and learning more about who I am and what I have settled for in my life!
I am amazed when I look back and see the choices I have made in regards to the types Of Men I have attracted,they all had issues,and the ones that didnt,well I ran away from them because they were to healthy or in Moms words to BORING!!!I have been feeling stronger every day,and am realizing that People cant give what they dont have…Its a shame we have to learn that the difficult way,but to be honest I am also kinda thankful as It has brought me to a place where I WILL NEVER settle for shotty and shady behaviour again…I will not only walk away but will run for the hills if I see one red flag!!!
Fighting for Freedom
on 22/10/2011 at 8:52 am
Brenda, I’m right there with you. All of my men have had issues, from childhood abandonment to PTSD from being involved in wars, I’ve really had some projects on my hands. And not only are they incapable of giving me what I need, but they also made me pay the price for their past suffering (read: abuse). And where are the ‘boring’ ones I ran away from: in serious relationships and/or engaged. I swear to God I am done with this, I am not doing this rescue shit anymore. Cuz at the end of the day, I am the one who needs to be rescued from them and the damage they cause. We’ll get there, this blog has helped me tremendously.
I very much recommend the film soon to be released in the UK (saw it at a foreign film fest in the States last week) ‘David is Dying’ to anyone who has been in this shitty relationship pattern. A synopsis of the film will say that its about a man who contracts HIV from having affairs and may have given it to his fiancée and unborn child, but what it really offers is a view of the world from a man who is completely messed up from childhood trauma and emotionally unavailable. Very powerful film, spoke volumes to me because I have been there (minus the HIV thank God). There is no remorse, no empathy at all for his fiancée, he slowly sucks the life out of her. Reinforces the ideas that men cannot be ‘fixed’, cannot give beyond their capacity, and can do some serious serious damage if you don’t get out.
brenda
on 23/10/2011 at 3:08 am
I googled the film..I am in Canada,soI am going to watch carefully if it is playing somewhere..Thanks for the Tip…I get so much from this site and everyones story…I dont feel like I am the only one who has gone thru this…Before I found this site,I honestly did not know what an EUM was,I thought it was me and I was some kinda crazy!!!!
Lia
on 22/10/2011 at 4:27 pm
“I am amazed when I look back and see the choices I have made in regards to the types Of Men I have attracted,they all had issues,and the ones that didnt,well I ran away from them because they were to healthy or in Moms words to BORING!!”
LOL, soooo guilty of this myself, so I definitely can relate. Men and women in these “relationships” tend to be two peas in one effed up pod, only neither one of them knows it. My male best friend told me that emotionally unavailable men think the same way we do. When you chase after him you throw him off of your scent, for a while at least, by seeming as though you are emotionally available, which is the last thing that he honestly wants even if he claims to, or even wants to want that. By always being available we think we’re sending one message when he’s getting another. Even though we might be consistent and reliable, the flipside to that is “boring” to someone who doesn’t feel worthy or believes that you have to work for love (hence why we may have found ourselves shying away from someone whose “boring”). And because they don’t actually want a relationship, they dodge you because they cannot step up to the plate and maintain, and they know it. They will stick around, but only for a woman who they figure has more issues then they do, or someone whose a “challenge”. But women who try to be the exception to the rule, or try to prove themselves end up playing right into their hands, ending up hurt and empty handed in the end. Love is not supposed to be hard, it’s not always easy, but not hard if it’s right. People who don’t truly love themselves will not be able to give even an inkling of that to someone who will know what to do with it.
So glad that you’re through with the drama too…
brenda
on 22/10/2011 at 9:08 pm
Fightingforfreedom and Lia!!!I am so thankful that we are able to finially see this for what it is!
I was thinking today As I was getting ready for work,If I buy something at the store that is damaged or broken,I dont hesitate to bring it back and get a refund,or at the very least an exchange..And yet when I meet these damaged or broken individuals,I try and keep them around knowing they dont work!!!I have learned I cannot fix anyone,but myself,and this is really what we are all here to achieve…
My ex EUM,is now on a well known free dating site,that to me is all about getting a piece of ass,and yet his profile says longterm….Im thinking,Go for it you piece of shite!!I would not want him back if he was attached to a million bucks…He will be at the foot of a mountain,and I will be over it because of the work I am doing on myself!!!Im free!!!!!
brenda
on 23/10/2011 at 3:05 am
So very true!I just could spend hours if I had it on here!!!!
Tulipa
on 22/10/2011 at 7:10 am
You don’t want to admit that you’ve made a mistake.
This whole article made me squirm with embarrassment I related to all of it.
What really smacked me in the face is admitting I made a huge error in judgement in my last relationship. I feel like he has to stump up and give me what I demand I will not be screwed over again.
I like Natasha put up with all the crap bouncing back from humilating situations he put me through smiling saying yes I’m still here. Now pay up I will not admit my hurt my humilation my defeat I will just keep been here.
Right, I must get them to give me a relationship!” Privately I was very concerned that I wasn’t entirely sure that I wanted the relationship but I had set these missions to prove to myself that I’m good enough to be given a relationship, especially from a reluctant source.
Yes I relate so much to this I am concerned I want someone to give me something who doesn’t want to and I’m not entirely sure that I want the relationship anyway.
Hope I make sense this post is a very accurate insight into me.
Natasha
on 22/10/2011 at 3:10 pm
“Privately I was very concerned that I wasn’t entirely sure that I wanted the relationship but I had set these missions to prove to myself that I’m good enough to be given a relationship, especially from a reluctant source.”
YUP! I would also think to myself on rare occasions of rationality, “If I got him to be my boyfriend, would he really be that much of a different person?”, but that fell by the wayside…clearly. Keep smiling Tulipa, it really is the best way to say, “I am much happier without your sorry ass.” 🙂
Tulipa
on 22/10/2011 at 11:19 pm
Oh, thank you I just had an insight,
Keep smiling, Tulipa, it really is the best way to say, “I’m much happier without your sorry ass”
It is where I fall down I say these words to him when we communicate yes life is great etc. etc. but then when we have finished speaking I end up emailing or texting actually I’m not that happy without you in my life the friendship is not to my liking please improve this and make amends immediately and be the friend I want yes yes life is going very well without you in it.
I go on about his actions not matching his words and ding ding I’m just as bad neither do mine.
I can just see how he would love this his ego been stroked and all he has to do is nothing.
Thanks for your comment.
Natasha
on 23/10/2011 at 3:12 pm
Tulipa, like I mentioned in another comment, I still have to distract myself from responding to my ex. I have no desire to reach out, but if he contacts me, for some reason I have a very hard time just saying nothing – even considering that there is literally nothing left to say.
What I do is put on my sneakers and take a walk around the block (sometimes with dog in tow, if he’s not in the midst of one of his five afternoon naps). Believe it or not, it works! I have a rational talk with myself, i.e. “What do I hope to gain by responding? Will this guy ever understand or care to understand what I’m saying?” The responses to these questions are, “Nothing.” and “No.” If you cut him off completely, I think you’ll find that life REALLY is better without him around. It takes time, but it’s so worth it.
Mango
on 23/10/2011 at 8:41 pm
Excellent advice. Break the cycle of reaction by not only switching thinking gears, yet by also doing something physical. Truly, the combination of the two simultaneously can be quite empowering, as it often leads to more fruitful thought processes.
Though, how you can leave the house with the dog asleep is a mystery to me. Mine would hear my shoelaces tying, and be at my feet before I could say “Red Flag!”
Tulipa
on 24/10/2011 at 7:44 am
Lol wish I had a dog, but conditions don’t allow for one.
Still I joined the gym today.
Thank you again for replying.
Natasha
on 24/10/2011 at 3:09 pm
@Mango – It IS super helpful! I think in these situations we get so used to responding in a certain way – like a bad habit. That’s too cute about your doggie! When I absolutely have to take mine out with me and he’s not feeling it (he’s an English Bulldog – so sweet, yet so stubborn), the most effective means of mobilizing him is to open and close the refrigerator – then he’s underfoot in under ten seconds!
@Tulipa – Anytime sister! Excellent choice joining a gym – it’s very hard to text a jackass and work it out on the elliptical at the same time 🙂
braveheart
on 22/10/2011 at 7:41 am
I love the million dollars visualisation- puts it into great context!!
oh and the ritz one, I likened my EUM to a beaten up old ford escort taxi (loads of fares!) dressed up as a top of the range BMW.
Visualisation really helps me grasp the concepts, and one of the best things that I ever did was imagine him as Gollum in Lord of the rings. He started out ok, but became more and more corrupted by his actions and desires and was really just a slimy, secretive nasty piece of work. Thats his nickname now!!
If you were going to make a huge financial investment like a house, which would affect every part of your life, wouldnt you look at several houses, have a list of what the house must provide and what you would like it to provide, but you could compromise on, and the potential return ?
Shouldnt you do exactly the same on an emotional investment? And…..if you find the house of your dreams…shouldnt you commit to making that house into a home, taking care of its maintenance and being responsible with the morgage etc….whilst the house gives you a safe haven, warmth, shelter and the security of always being there?
If not, buy a prefab…
Lynda from L
on 22/10/2011 at 10:45 am
Yeah… I was definitely living with ‘his values in the relationship in order to keep him.’
I think I ‘ve been doing this for donkey’s years. There was a period at the beginning of my relationships, even during the courtship where I start to shape-shift into what I imagine they might want. Using skills of observation and research I would gradually be the ‘ Ideal’ woman for them. Often dampening down, even hiding my real self. This goes beyond the normal level of ‘good behaviour’ that most people put on at the beginning of a relationship…
What happened next was inevitable. I’d wake up into the relationship with an AC or e EUM, feel at best dissatisfied and at worst distraught,humiliated,angry,shocked that I was being regarded and treated the way I was. Yet, and this is really painful to admit, on some level, my gut… I had known that they were like that anyway. I ‘concealed to appeal’….in order to stay in a relationship with emotionally unavailable individuals because I am emotionally available myself.
When you actually consider that these guys are often made up of smoke and mirrors themselves…then what you have is caricatures of people, having false relationships, like actors on a stage. Full of action and drama,pathos and sex but not based in reality at all. I have truly done my last curtain call in this play of my own making. Great article.
Lynda From L
on 22/10/2011 at 5:56 pm
Hell, big type error above… I meant that I was ’emotionally UNavailable myself’ Living and working in hope tho’!
MaryC
on 22/10/2011 at 11:20 am
On my journey to a healthier life all around I came across this while reading how Zen looks at realtionships, I thinks its very insightful. “How often we try to grasp and hold onto that which is no longer suitable, or to desperately maneuver to obtain that which may be entirely wrong.”
Leisha
on 23/10/2011 at 3:24 pm
I watched “The Secret” last night…it tells how an “attitude of gratitude” and focusing on the good can change your life…I think Nat helps people realign their focus and change their views in ways that allow them to bring joy into their lives…awareness then change…I enjoy looking into religious teachings for the universal lessons that have been brought to us to allow us to have peace within and without…just thought I’d mention another possible source of enrichment.
Lia
on 22/10/2011 at 2:36 pm
“If you check into a hotel today and complain about the lack of sea view even though you’re bang smack in the middle of a built up area, you’ve either got to accept that the view is the view, or move to a hotel closer to the beach. End of story.”
Absolutely 200% correct, but it is oh so hard to want to throw in the towel when you feel like you have the power to change someone else. But after you feel like you’ve exhausted all of your options and reality sets it, you stop caring so much about not having a relationship with this person and start feeling angry with yourself for refusing to use your brain when dealing with him/her in the first place.
It used to be a cycle for me. I would get involved with someone who did not match me at all, but on paper he did. Then when things didn’t work I would all of a sudden remember all of the red flags I saw from the beginning that I refused to understand, and then I would get angry with myself and promise to never go through it ever again. Wrong! I would only be fooling myself because they were just the same guys in different packages. Didn’t realize it at the time, but I was only treating the symptom not the cause….
The last guy this happened with truly was the last guy. Something about me was different with him. My mentality had been going through a metamorphosis for a while and I honestly believe that when I opted out it was because I had learned my lesson. I felt as though I had toed the line of perfection so well when dealing with him, but it wasn’t good enough. I could have been jumping through a hoop of fire in a handstand and it wouldn’t have mattered. I could be the perfect partner, but that would not change who he was or what he could bring to the table. I had no control over him or how he responded to my actions. Relationships take two people putting in quality effort to function properly, not one person doing all of the work, not one person pulling the puppet strings of the other to get them to act/act differently. Plus, in trying to maintain perfection all the time (which is impossible), my spirit felt as though it was beginning to weaken and I did feel as though I was losing sight of myself. After the agony of defeat subsided(LOL), I turned that anger on myself as I realized that all the tell tale signs were there from jump that he was not the one for me, and had I been in my right mind it would have been over before it started. I wanted him, but he was never going to be able to have the relationship that I wanted to have…
Great post! It all sounds so ridiculous and completely makes sense at the same time. Oh the things we will do to get what we “want”…..
Gina
on 22/10/2011 at 4:11 pm
Once again great article Nat!
Natalie’s message over and over again is not only to look at the red flags and walk away from shady and unhealthy relationships, but to look within ourselves and figure out what it is that causes us to knowingly enter into these types of relationships in the first place.
I think that there are many woman on this board who have had nice healthy guys show interest in them, but for whatever reason, they are attracted to the drama of being with a bad boy. If they did/do the work to resolve the issues surrounding why they are attracted to these men, and developed a healthy dose of some kick ass self-esteem, then they could/would meet a great guy.
Question: what if you are NOT the type of woman who is drawn to men who are AC/EUM/FF? And as soon as you find out that you’ve unwittingly entered into a bait and switch type of situation, red sirens go off, and you bounce. However, although you are ready to enter into a healthy relationship filled with love, care, trust, and respect, you find it difficult to meet a good man who is on the same page? The older a woman gets–I’ll be 50 in January–it seems the harder it is to find one because it seems that so many men out there have serious issues and baggage. Message to the younger women on this blog: All the more reason not to waste precious years on men who are not worthy of you.
I’m still putting myself out there, but I am also mentally preparing myself for the possibility that I may never meet the right guy—not because he’s not out there–it’s because our paths may never cross.
jennynic
on 22/10/2011 at 5:15 pm
I’m learning that I have made having a relationship my priority and this caused me no accept less than’s, EUM’s, AC’s, and downright abusive parters, because keeping that relationship was important to me, no matter the toll it took. This was because I was lonely and I wanted a man in my life to give me purpose and fill in void I had. It goes further….I was getting into situations foremost because they showed interest in me and I needed that validation. It didn’t matter if they were all wrong for me…..if they showed interest and I found them attractive then the game was on. The outside shell of pride and aloofness worked as a cover up to what I was really feeling, which was desperate. Bottom line, I was looking for a man and a relationship to fill the emptiness in my life and to quiet the screaming fear of no one loving me. Although I still want a relationship, I have put it into perspective and want it to compliment and enhance my life, not become my life. So many years I was silently crying out, “love me somebody, please, anybody.” This was like the dinner bell for users and parasites. After learning so much this past year about myself and the things NML has talked about it’s like a whole new world has opened up for me. I feel different. I feel my worth. I am not begging for love and validation. Ever. Again.
Sad
on 22/10/2011 at 6:24 pm
I absolutley love this blog! It’s really helping me through some rough times that im still having right now. I have made exactly the same mistake of trying to have a relationship with an EUM who even though I knew he wasn’t right for me, stuck with him anyways for 1.5 years until finally I had enough of his verbal abuse, his coldness and left him which wasnt easy as we lived together. I also had a holiday fling at the end which is something that was never in my nature before. He doesn’t know and I feel so ashamed to this day. Since then I think im finally starting to see the light and take stock of the bad choices i’ve been making with men. Problem is I still feel sad over my breakup. I feel like a failure and im angry at myself for allowing myself to be being stepped on then lowering myself to cheating. I should be having the time of my life but I feel so weary of men now to the point where I don’t even know what I feel anymore. All this values and boundaries are things what I thought I was implementing. Obviously not. Now I just feel lost. Not sure what to do anymore 🙁
Lily
on 23/10/2011 at 6:51 pm
Sad,
I hear you, I feel the same way sometimes. Even though I know I am learning so much about boundaries and how to spot men that are not good for me, I feel weary and sometimes don’t know what I feel. I think it is a stage of transition. You know the old way does not work, but you are in the middle of learning a new way…and you slip back sometimes…that is where the confusion comes in I think.
When I feel confused, I try to just let myself feel and it and tell myself that it is natural. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn’t, but I am trying to be okay with all my feelings and everything that I am learning. Learning new things takes time and integrating them into your life takes time. I was married for years and thought I really understood relationships and men…but now at 46 years old, I’m not so sure anymore…I think with the learning comes crisis, where much of what we know is challenged and we feel lost while we integrate new ways of being…I don’t know really…I’m just at the confused stage myself and I’m really trying to sit with it and not be distracted.
I have had a couple of men ask me out, but I’m just not ready and I am gun shy now…and that is ok…I tell myself that I’m “temporarily emotionally unavailable”, while I am learning this new language.
Whew!! This stuff is tough…but worth it….even on the days that we want to slip back into the old pattern.
Anari
on 22/10/2011 at 7:56 pm
Yup! I wanted him and not the relationship. If I wanted a healthy relationship I wouldn’t have wanted him. I crossed referenced his attributes on an online test and he was a classic Narcissitic. And so, knowing this all along…if I truly wanted a healthy relationship I would have never poured my heart and soul into having him. Natalie you’re right…as always. Thanks!
Magnolia
on 22/10/2011 at 8:52 pm
I’ve been participating in a big lit conference/festival the past few days. Two nights ago I came home on a high because two of the big famous guy authors invited me to join them and another woman for drinks and we all hung out for three hours. One of these guys has always been rude to me; when his buddy invited me, I was surprised, flattered, and said yes and felt like a big insider for most of the afternoon. Yesterday the same guy totally blanked me as if we’d never hung out, and last night I felt like I took it in the teeth again and again as the festival organizer, these dudes, and their buddies all arranged to have drinks with one another after the event – making plans right in front of me, as if I weren’t even there. A couple of them gave me the brush-off as I tried to connect. It was so rude; this morning I actually cried about it.
“It’s like you meet someone and even if they’re the biggest jackass in the universe or keep telling you that they don’t want what you want or they show you, you keep pinning the tail on them or shouting “You’re it!””
I guess that’s what I’m doing with this crowd of cliquey writers. I’m like: am I not famous enough? That’s not it. I saw less famous people getting taken by the arm and invited to the afterparty. Is it that I’m not pretty enough? That’s my old sore point, but that’s not it either, I don’t think. The thing is a few of these guys have ALWAYS been jackasses to me and I feel that originally I always showed them that I want to be their friend – though I would show annoyance when they would be jackasses.
Sigh. There are a bunch of good folks at the events. I’m just really bummed that the guy running it is making a show of being in an exclusive club, and I still want to be in the club. This is how it felt hanging out with my exAC and his city council buddies; I felt thrilled to be there, despondent at the values I was soaking in.
I feel like I’m attracted to the leaders, the people running things, the in-crowd, but I just want the in-crowd to be nice, for once. Isn’t there such a thing? Why does being a nice person always mean being on the outside, on the periphery, excluded?
I know this emotional tangle led me to stick with the AC a long time so I need to figure it out.
“I always saw relationships in terms of what I wanted from this (particular) relationship with this…
Magnolia
on 22/10/2011 at 8:53 pm
“I always saw relationships in terms of what I wanted from this (particular) relationship with this (particular) man, so that my desire for a relationship was always about a specific man to me and never about relationships in general or about men in general.”
This is me and professional relationships right now. I need to figure out who I am in all of this and what I want from my career in general, not “what do I want from these people right now.” In this specific instance I want them all to include me and for us to all be … what? More important than everyone else? Happy?
Well, I would like the inside track on getting awards, book deals, etc. Who wouldn’t? Again – if they’re just about being shallow – am I not famous and connected enough for these people? It’s like, if we’re being shallow here, I thought that I have what it takes to “win” on those counts. If we’re not being shallow, then I do think I’m a decent person with something to offer in conversation and friendship.
Maybe this is a similar feeling to “even an AC doesn’t want me?”
In the meantime, I’m off to an event that actually involves both the cliquey lit crowd and the exACs crowd all at once. I don’t know why this stuff bothers me so much. Shouldn’t I just be able to do my thing and not care if I get invited out? I’ll think more on this later tonight.
Fearless
on 22/10/2011 at 10:17 pm
Frankly Mag, some people just have very bad manners and hanging out in your company one day and then blanking and excluding you the next is exactly that – rude and hurtful, and these people know they’re doing it – they have no shame! I have experienced similar (and in similar situations – my refusal to let go of the ex EUM was partly, in the beginning, a desire to be in his ‘in crowd’ – am still waiting!! Not). All I can tell you is that I sincerely wish now that I had called these people (or person) out on their rudeness OR completely blanked them the next time they came my way (which I did with one or two of them but not with the one that really counted!)
jupiter23
on 22/10/2011 at 10:37 pm
I don’t know the culture of this type of work. But I can just imagine all their self-important chatter. I’m not sure what kind of writers they are. I used to want to be a writer but wanted follow in the footsteps of those discussing social justice. Of course, I’m sure those types of authors can be self-important too. But at least they’re inclusive. Ha.
I would definitely be hurt if this happened to me, of course. But I hope I would be strong enough to know they are jerks. And I’m not sure if this is possible in your situation (professionalism and all that), but I have been known to say something to people when I thought they were–shall we say–stuck up. I remember when this group would exclude me, I felt, because of my race. I called up the manager and–politely I might add–had my say. I went back one more time just to show that I could stand up for myself and not be embarrassed. But I left the group because they were idiots.
Magnolia
on 23/10/2011 at 7:50 pm
Thanks Fearless, and Jupiter. The conference is over, I’m back at home on my own in my apartment and feeling like I need three days to be by myself and recover. My self-esteem is around here somewhere, like a precious marble I dropped rushing from handshake to handshake, air kiss to air kiss. I need to go looking for it again.
Yesterday I saw a woman that I gave a ride to the night before, after she and a mutual friend of mine and I had all attended an evening event. I greeted her warmly, and she was lukewarm and hung back when I waited for her as the line we were in moved. Then when she came into the auditorium I waved and she “didn’t see me” and then she sat right behind me, and I turned around and asked if she wanted to join me, and she “didn’t see me” again – she looked away. Did she not hear me? Is she blanking me, too? Am I totally paranoid?
I’m sensitive because when I saw her and my friend the night earlier, the first thing I did was complain about these dudes, and particularly about the pretty actress (who is not a writer, but seems she knows all the men writers) who was moving comfortably into conversation with all the same guys who freeze me out. Then today I think, wow, now does *this* woman think I’m a total gossipy bitch? A paranoid, self-centred bitch?
I did apologize to her that night, saying that these environments (lit festivals, where everyone is hustling) bring out a bad side of me.
This morning I know I can’t base my self-worth on this friend of a friend’s opinion any more than I can the actions of the rest of the festival crowd. But then I think of a pair of acquaintances I did go out with last night, and am second-guessing whether I didn’t behave like an ass myself (they asked about my current book project, and I told them ALL about it, and then felt like I had taken up way too much time and space in the conversation, because they excused themselves shortly thereafter).
All this awkwardness I used to pin on racial difference – it certainly feels like the “beautiful people” don’t recognize me as one of them – but now I think I just want to breathe, get a bit of distance and look back at what this whole experience did to/for me. There are so many resonances with my feelings and behaviour re the AC that I’m sure I’ll learn something.
EllyB
on 24/10/2011 at 10:14 am
@Magnolia: Is it really just the people who hang out with the “in crowd” who get the book deals? All of them? Or are there other ways?
I’m sure you know many people who got book deals. Did they all do what you’re currently trying to do? Aren’t there other roads, such as picking a “hot” topic, specializing on a particular field or whatever?
Although I work in a creative field as well, I’m not familiar with the book business. However, I can see how unhealthy this “in crowd” is for you.
What do you really want? Awards? Or a happy life, work you enjoy, and enough money to sustain yourself? Don’t you think there might be better ways to get it?
grace
on 24/10/2011 at 1:11 pm
magnolia
Idon’t think it matters what they think. not everyone is going to like you. even mother theresa has her detractors.
here’s a story for you – I arrived at work one day after a terrible commute, crawled under my desk to turn on my computer, and as I came up I banged my head. just as I emerged, with a look of total rage on my face, I caught the eye of my supervisor. she looked completely shocked and turned away. She must have thought I HATED her. Then I felt too shy/annoyed to explain, so we weren’t on good terms for a while!
sometimes it’s just not about you – they are having a bad day, you look like someone you used to bully them. or they’re intimidated (yes, seems unlikely but i’ve been told the same). Or maybe they do dislike you – so what?
Anyway, to bring this back on topic. We focus on getting a relationship from an unlikely source because – we feel like a failure if we can’t force someone to like us. Let it go. Some of us (like me) will never be part of the “in” crowd. No loss.
Used
on 24/10/2011 at 8:39 pm
Magnolia–
Based on the facts you provided, I think that this woman heard you say negative things about people and:
1. may fear that you may do the same (talk negative) as to her; or:
2. she wants to leave open the option of talking negative ABOUT YOU to the very same powerful, “in”, “beautiful”, whatever people you talked negative about–despite the fact that you were telling the truth, the facts–to get herself ahead with/using the same people, if she ver needs them to get ahead in her own life; or:
3. she already talks shite about you with those people behind your back.
And, yes, people like this usually do lack integrity. And they know how to backstab and use to get ahead, usually b/c they were raised this way, or they at least saw this as an easy means to whatever end(s) they want to realize.
Most people on this earth are shite. Sorry to be so blunt. Hard to get ahead being a decent person.
BOttom line is how you relate to your nearest and dearest, and to God. You don’t want to be screwing people over to be forced to beg for mercy in His presence when your day come; do you?
Sorry to be preach-y. But we only live once. I’ll be damned (literally) of the Shite of the Earth steals my wind and spirit.
Oh, and Magnolia, no offense, but you yourself (I’d bet) are s “school snob” or other sort of snob on the intellectual level with those less educated than you. HOw do I know this? I kinda sorta maybe usued to be a little bit like this myself. And this element in you yourself is definitelty a part of why you can’t be yourself, and your best self, right now.
Used
on 24/10/2011 at 8:40 pm
Magnolia–
How did you react with my spelling of “offence” in my earlier comment.
Think about it.
Magnolia
on 24/10/2011 at 9:03 pm
Thanks Elly and Grace. Everything you both say makes sense. I guess I would like a Baggage Reclaim for social groups! I feel quite similar to when I was dating the AC; knowing it didn’t feel good, knowing something was off, but not knowing how much is me and how much is them. Coming to BR helped me see that my own observations of my situation were more reliable than I was giving myself credit for.
So the community of writers doing what I do in my country is pretty small. It’s like one big extended dysfunctional family. Unless I want to absolutely switch careers, I have to stay in the family, ugh. Or get known in the US or UK, which is the way a lot of Canadians get their own fellow Canadians to finally take them seriously.
The new research on bullying is not hopeful. They used to think it was about low-self esteem on the bully’s part. (If you remember, I always thought that the AC’s meanness must have meant low-self-esteem, which could be ‘cured’ if he felt my true love). Now they know that a lot of bullies think very highly of themselves and often rise to positions of power where they continue to mock, belittle and exclude people. So the research finally confirms what I always suspected: they think they are better than me, and they like excluding me and mocking me, and they’ve gained control of a lot of the publishing mechanisms in this country. I’m finished being nice to them because I think that they secretly believe no one likes them.
Magnolia
on 25/10/2011 at 1:02 am
Used and grace, both your comments point to my being too worried about other people, and potentially seeing offense (offence?) where none was intended. Used, was I supposed to see something in the spelling? I thought both are acceptable. If you’re suggesting that I have reacted to your spelling, I hadn’t, so I’m not quite sure what you’re getting at.
I have been a ‘snob’ of sorts, as I think I got called on a few months back, when I enthused about how smart the exAC was/is. I know it was a big mistake to assume that people’s intellect corresponded to their emotional intelligence.
We’re all here learning how to be ‘snobs’ about the right things, aren’t we? I hope I’m becoming an anti-AC snob. There are some people that we ought not to let into our circle: now I understand that I want to be more picky about people’s unkindness or competitiveness, and keep that energy at a distance, rather than thinking that education or achievement correlated to quality. I just spoke to another female writer of colour who said she felt terrible at this conference because of where she felt placed on a hierarchy of popularity. And I know she has dealt with the bigshots coming onto her in racist ways and getting pissy when she doesn’t respond, then cutting her out of the social scene. She is also not a big ego type, but at the same time is often quite negative about the way she gets treated. But she isn’t treated great. So I’m not the only one.
But I want out of the cycle of negativity. How to exist in this environment without becoming negative, and becoming the very gossip and shunner that is so hurtful? Do you just get to the point of being “okay” with being treated like you’re B-list by the A-listers?
I guess I have always harboured a young person’s fantasy about a group of writers at the top of the food chain who would be the ones who wrote about social justice and won Nobel prizes and dedicated parts of their lives to activism, who would eventually welcome me when I had earned my way in. Now I see that there’s no circle, and at top of the food chain there are all kinds: activist writers who are jerks, Nobel nominees who are chauvinist, and puff writers who are lovely people.
Having felt marginalized and forced into being the unpopular kid so many times, it’s not a position I want to just lie down and accept as an adult.
grace
on 25/10/2011 at 9:31 am
magnolia
I don’t mean to suggest that you’re imagining it. There is a good chance that this person IS judgemental, racist and cliquey (like wotsherface in “The Help”). She won’t be the first person like that you’ve met and she won’t be the last. What I meant to say is – she has no power over you (thankfully). Don’t let her cause you grief. If people want to be twerps, let them. It’s got nothing to do with us.
Okay, if everyone you meet is treating you badly, then it may be worth taking remedial action- but let’s not allow the odd one to make us doubt ourselves.
When I was (very) young, I used to imagine that my life would be full of glamour, travel, men, parties, fabulous people. But as it is, my friends are lowkey – teachers, secretaries, not that beautiful (to look at). Popularity, like celebrity or fame, is an illusion. We imagine that other people have fantastic lives that we aspire to but, like you said, it’s not that shiny close up. Anyway, this is drifting off topic but, in one way, it’s in the spirit of the blog – stick to your guns, it doesn’t matter what other people think. Especially if those people aren’t even that special! I may take on board what a kindly, wise person says to me, but I won’t tie myself in knots over someone who looks down on me cos I’m chinese/not as smart as them/not as wealthy/popular/successful etc!
mirelle
on 22/10/2011 at 10:19 pm
“I have never seen relationships with men in terms of what I wanted from a (any) relationship with a (any) man. I always saw relationships in terms of what I wanted from this (particular) relationship with this (particular) man”
I don’t believe in focusing on the type of relationship we want, with ANY man who would meet the criteria. Relationships aren’t a goal, relationships just happen, we feel happy with somebody and that’s why we are together, not because they ticked all the points in our list.
Focusing on a “committed relationship” it’s like keeping a goal in mind (the “proper” relationship) and finding people to fill in, who serve to our purpose.
I believe in meeting people (not EUMs) and having relationships without a specified purpose, just enjoying their company, laughing together, going out, talking all night long about silly things, going on holiday together , etc and , if things progress, maybe settle down, marrying, etc. All these things can happen with a normal guy, not an EUM, not an AC and they happen without prior planning.
I wouldn’t like to meet a guy now who has a list in mind with the things that our relationship must contain. It’s like he wouldn’t care about my feelings, thoughts, personality, but, if I fit in his “relationship must have” list, I am “the one”, if not, he will organize a job fair and find a girl who does.
Aren’t relationships meant to teach us about ourselves? Then what is the lesson after 5 years of a relationship with a man who fits the relationship requirement list? That our list was perfect?
I know I used to be an EUW and I still have some fears about committed relationships. In the past I didn’t truly want a proper and “normal” relationship because, in the end, this would go to marriage and children. I spent my 20s thinking that there must be something more about this life that being a wife and a mother.
EUMs were great partners in my past because they wouldn’t commit, so I was safe. During the relationships I always acted as I wanted more from them, I blamed them for the lack of commitment. Deep inside, I knew I didn’t want any of them as my husbands.
I don’t see things now like I did before, I don’t try to find the “bad” excitement brought by the insecurities of a relationship with an EUM. I think that there can be a “good” excitement with an available man.
Fearless
on 23/10/2011 at 11:26 am
Mirelle,
We tend, I think, to get into more trouble with relationships when we DO have a list of criteria that we want a man to fit (Nat has posts and comments on this very ‘danger’).
Here’s the boxes that Nat has said (and many agree) makes for a healthy relationship: 1) trust 2) care 3) respect.
The point I think is that if a man – a particular man you want to be with (for the short or long term) – cannot offer you trust, care or respect then you are going to be quite miserable in that relationship. EUMs / A/Cs /MMs are very unlikely to be able to bring all of those to the table. if you “met a guy with this list in mind” then he WOULD in fact care about your feelings; conversely if he does not have “this list in mind” then you can be sure that he won’t give a fig for your feelings. so it’s not so much “a list” as a set of values and I would love to meet a guy whose values within a relationship included trust, care and respect. I met the ex EUM (and other men in the past) in exactly the manner you describe and was miserable.
you say Mirelle: “I don’t try to find the “bad” excitement brought by the insecurities of a relationship with an EUM. I think that there can be a “good” excitement with an available man.”
Yes, of course there can be good excitement with an available man (I have had that before) but it may not be “good excitement” for the emotionally available man if he’s getting it from an emotionally unavailable woman??
mirelle
on 23/10/2011 at 7:33 pm
“I met the ex EUM (and other men in the past) in exactly the manner you describe and was miserable.”
The way I decribed it is this: “I believe in meeting people (not EUMs) and having relationships without a specified purpose, just enjoying their company, laughing together, going out, talking all night long about silly things, going on holiday together , etc and , if things progress, maybe settle down, marrying, etc. All these things can happen with a normal guy, not an EUM, not an AC and they happen without prior planning.”
I don’t think you were miserable because you met a guy who made you laugh, because you had long talks or had no prior planning on how your relationship should look like.
You were unhappy because although you saw that he’s EUM and unwillingly to give you what you want, you stayed. They don’t owe us the relationship some of us dream of. It’s our business to find it if this is our priority.
I met guys who wanted “serious relationships”, marriage and children and who couldn’t believe I was not interested in their offer. It was not my business that they had some plans for THEIR life. They weren’t MY plans or OUR plans.
I think a committed relationship is a CONSEQUENCE, not a PRIORITY, not a GOAL. We commit to somebody because we love them/want them/are happy with them and when things progress in the right direction.
I was unhappy too with my ex but not because we hadn’t established clear “list of requirements” for our relationship, but because I stayed more than I should have in a relationship that had nothing more to offer.
You can never know from the beginning what’s on a man’s list (if he’s got one). When I said I did not want to meet a guy with a list I was not speaking about a guy with care, trust, respect on the list. I say that I wouldn’t like to meet one who has some clear established goals for a relationship, who has a profile I must fit.
I would like to meet an available men who wants ME, who wants to be with ME because he is happy with ME and because he loves ME.(and vice-versa)
grace
on 24/10/2011 at 2:01 pm
Mirelle
“I believe in meeting people (not EUMs) and having relationships without a specified purpose, just enjoying their company, laughing together, going out, talking all night long about silly things, going on holiday together , etc and , if things progress, maybe settle down, marrying, etc. All these things can happen with a normal guy, not an EUM, not an AC and they happen without prior planning.”
Mirelle – that was exactly how I conducted my love life. I’m now 46 and haven’t had a dated in over five years. But I had a brush with a MM last year. Before that I was seeing a playa, before that I was in a relationship with an abusive man. Before that, I married and divorced someone who blew hot and cold . I did not have a plan. I just bumped into guys, enjoyed a lot of flirting, laughter and chemistry, and then watched it all turn to shite.
Although we shouldn’t try to hammer every round peg into a square hole, I think it’s important to have a plan. A long, long time ago when we were still little girls, my sister said she wanted to get married and have a daughter. Now, years later she is married with three daughters. To want to get married and maybe have children is perfectly normal. To live your life according to that goal (no married men, no EUMs, trust, respect, optimism) is, I think, perfectly fine. Even though it’s not “cool”.
And lots and lots of men have that goal too. I used to be surprised by how frankly men talk about it, now I just accept it. There are a gazillion men out there who want proper relationships. Somehow we manage to avoid them and head straight for the clowns. Funny that.
mirelle
on 24/10/2011 at 7:39 pm
Grace,
You mentioned your relationships (with the playa, the hot and cold husband etc ) as an example of life failure and gave the example of your sister who has a husband and daughters as an example of success. I think that the lack of marriage in someone’s life is not a failure, is an option.
I don’t think that you wasted your time with all those men. I think you lived as a free human being and did what made you happy and learned your lesson. The only time we DO WASTE with this men is from the moment we realize we should END the relationship (and we don’t, wasting time trying to change/ fix/ heal them or trying to make them give us the relationship we want).
I totally agree that we have to start the relationship with self-esteem, trust, respect, optimism. I will certainly focus on myself and my self esteem in my next relationship because I want to know when to end things at the right time, if necessary.
Yes, it is normal (maybe “cool”-I do know a lot of cool mothers) to marry and have children, but not because these are your personal goals. I think it’s normal to want to marry because your relationship is great ( as a consequence, because it’s the evolution course of things) and you both decide this, while you are in a relationship, after some time together, not something you established as personal objective before having that relationship. I think that is weird to be single wishing someone to accomplish your solitary plan of being a wife and having children.
I don’t believe that having children is a must. Having children is, in my opinion, for the lucky people who have happy relationships. It’s sad that thousands of children are born every year around the world, from unhappily married parents, who won’t be able to offer the children a proper education or care.
Marriage does not ensure a life of EUMs-free; a lot of EUMs or ACs are husbands. Not every man who wants a wife is honest or decent. He can have lots of interests from a wife (from cleaning, cooking, sharing bills/rent to social status, etc.)
When I heard single men saying that they want to get married and I asked “why?” I heard a lot of hilarious reasons ( my mother keeps saying that/ all my friends are married and I’m the only bachelor in the group/ I feel lonely etc). And the saddest part is not the…
Fearless
on 24/10/2011 at 9:03 pm
Mirelle:
“I don’t think you were miserable because you met a guy who made you laugh, because you had long talks or had no prior planning on how your relationship should look like.
You were unhappy because although you saw that he’s EUM and unwillingly to give you what you want, you stayed.”
Mirelle, I do not see these two statements you make (above) as unconnected. I had no prior planning about what a (healthy) relationship should look like therefore I stayed in an unhealthy one. With some prior planning (or considered thought) about what my relationships should look like I may not have gotten involved with a blatant EUM nor would I have stayed so long as I did. I only got out when I started to seriously think about “what” I wanted and, more crucially, what I should be able to expect from a relationship, so a little planning would have done me no harm at all
jupiter23
on 24/10/2011 at 9:06 pm
mirelle,
I don’t think that grace was saying not being married is a failure; I’m pretty sure she was just saying to not pretend to not want marriage if you really do.
Also, most of the time when we are involved with an EUM we realize in weeks, if not hours, that the relationship should never even BEGIN-let alone have a chance to end.
If being married is someone’s goal, then they shouldn’t be involved with someone who doesn’t want to be married. Period. It’s okay to not get involved with someone–even if you really like them–if they don’t share the same life goals. We don’t have to be fancy-free with our hearts.
grace
on 25/10/2011 at 9:14 am
Jupiter
Thanks for clarifying – I was starting to lose the train of my own thoughts! That’s because I’m very confused about it myself. I lived with someone years ago who DID treat me with love, care and respect. I thought (and still do actually) that I didn’t want to get married, that I’m not the “marrying kind”. But when he said he didn’t believe in marriage I remember thinking “we have no future”. Weird. I certainly don’t want to be dating with no endgame. I don’t want to live with someone without being married. When my friends get married, I’m very excited for them. I cry (in a good way) at weddings. So … Hmm! I actually find it quite scary to follow this train of thought.
As for the previous bad relationships, I’m over it but I mention it to illustrate, and to stick to the topic, if you don’t know what you want you’re likely to end up with … something you don’t want. And I should clarify – I absolutely don’t see singledom as a failure.
FX
on 22/10/2011 at 10:43 pm
BR is helping me to be really honest with myself and I have to admit that I was a complete EUF but did look at what I wanted from a relationship and not the individual man back then. I wanted male attention and sex, fine wine and dining, excitement and adventure. I already had an ex-husband and lovely child. I was so EU, I even had 2 relationships of several months with men who worked in my city and stayed in hotels and went back to from whence they came on weekends. Interestingly, my recent AC was a MM when we met. His wife found out and divorced him but we never became a real couple even when we lived together. We both had the baggage from being players when we met and I don’t think either of us could ever develop the necessary trust. The man had a full on girlfriend when he walked down the aisle to marry his wife and always had one so I didn’t feel responsible for the dissolution of his marriage and it didn’t bother me when he was showering me with extravagance and blowing hot but, when he eventually started really blowing cold, I was older and couldn’t imagine being an OW or that woman who could snap her fingers and have a man at her beck and call for amusement. It has been a really long time since I haven’t had a suitor in my life but reading this post and comments, I have to admit I’m really not sure what kind of relationship I do want at this point in my life and I certainly don’t feel confident about my ability to date so I guess I’m not at all ready. At the end, I tried to go back to where we started but I wasn’t who I used to be (thank goodness!) and I was being treated more like the wife than the mistress – he got a new public girlfriend after I moved out and I kept seeing him, too. So insane! He did break up with her but I guess he really still is the same. I know in my heart and from everything on this site that I’m fortunate I can get my self respect back now and it’s foolish to even think about my AC’s life but it still bothers me that I know he must already be blowing hot with someone new and I’m yesterday’s news after almost 6 years with no attempt at contact on either side since I demanded an apology via text months ago. We don’t have any friends in common and he is not on any social network sites which helps I’m sure.
FX
on 23/10/2011 at 2:15 am
I don’t want anyone here to think I’m in denial or dishonest about NC if you’ve read any other of my comments! I did speak with the AC/AU briefly the other day for the first time after 2 months of NC because he called/texted repeatedly saying to please call because he needed to ask me something. I waited 2 days but it seemed specific so I did call and it was for the date of a transaction he thought I would know. I didn’t recall (maybe wanting to forget the last year is working!) and that was the extent of the conversation because, thankfully, he was on another call when I finally called back. I now even regret responding to him for that because, however small of an interaction, he got me to call him and try to be helpful and it was so self-centered a reason and probably a foothold for him to not feel as awful about himself as he should, but, of course, doesn’t. He called me as if nothing happened – like I haven’t been NC and he hasn’t just disappeared. I think that’s the first post topic I read here at BR BTW… There is a difference between NC and disappearing. I think I’ll re-read that great post here now!
I also just want to add that I think I looked to men – and eventually this particular man – to give me attention and engage my time and mind to the degree I did was because I wasn’t fulfilled in other areas of my life. I feel so fortunate that I now have respect in a job I love because I think that is what I was lacking and compensating for in seeking attention from men to a great extent. I can’t afford the lifestyle I had with my AC on my own yet but I think I am excited about my life for much better reasons recently. Also, as I said in another comment, I think my increased confidence and demands for respect were directly related to the AC’s escalation of bad behavior. It still doesn’t feel good to think I’m so expendable but does show it for what it is… True incompatibility!
colororange
on 23/10/2011 at 1:00 am
I’ve done this numerous times, trying to make a relationship fit and work with someone that had different ideas about it than myself. And that is what a lot of it was: I had a different idea/perspective about the same relationship. Some of the guys would take the opportunity of me hanging all over them or chasing after them. Others didn’t stick around long. It may have been one way, but by golly I was going to see it a different way and push like hell to make him see it that way too. I got myself used quite a bit because of that. It’s almost embarrassing to know I really chased after a man that didn’t want a full on relationship with me and how I poured my heart out to him. He soaked it up like a rag and I was left depleted and nothing ever came of it like I’d hoped. Talk about pissing against the wind.
Who knows if I’ll ever be with anyone again. Right now several people around me are pregnant and seemingly happily married. I’m like what the heck are they doing that I’m not doing? Not that I’m up for having children but rather a relationship. If I could just go out in the world without this radar of every guy I pass “is he it? is he?”. Life would be so much more pleasant if I was only focused on what I’m doing and not a penis walking by….ooops I mean a man.
PJM
on 24/10/2011 at 7:00 am
@colourorange:
So why not try living that way, for a day? or a week, if you can? Just as an experiment. And then tell us the results!
PS: I’ve discovered that I have accidentally stopped thinking of myself as ‘single’, and started thinking of myself as ‘free’.
I have married friends who get isolated and lonely and need visiting, relatives whose marriages need support, people having birthdays who need last-minute presents … I find I am really enjoying being ‘useful’ in lots of ways that I didn’t expect.
This morning, I was mentally going through my list of things I planned to do, mostly concerning putting people in touch with each other and helping out, I suddenly thought, ‘Yes, this [particular task] is something that a FREE person could do’.
There it was. It just popped out all by itself. I am a FREE person, as opposed to my paired-up friends who can’t just go anywhere and do anything, because they have partners, kids, etc.
I am going to try to keep this mentality as long as I can!
jupiter23
on 24/10/2011 at 8:04 am
I was 20 before I had my first boyfriend. Before that, I too would look at a lot of guys and wonder if he was the one. I’m curious why I did that. I don’t do that hardly anymore. I still want to have a really good relationship but don’t do this anymore.
I also had a friend who, after she broke up with her one and only serious boyfriend (even to this date, I think), would tell me she would do this as well.
brenda
on 23/10/2011 at 1:35 am
I sat the other day and wrote down all the longer term relationships I had..What an eye opener!Every one of them had issues in thier childhood,anger issues,sex issues…You name it!This last one was the worst I have ever met!Verbal abuse,hot and cold,anger like I have never seen,could not talk emotion and Vindictive to the core!It has been over a month since he walked away with no Goodbye NOTHING..And today I see him for what he is,a Loser,a coward,a spineless man that will end up alone and angry,and you know what I dont care…We choose how we behave..I was thinking if I die tommorrow do I have regrets,Do i have apologies I never gave,and the answer was simple,even tho I was treated like dirt,I forgave them…I will never forget,but I choose not repeat the same insanity…
lynne
on 23/10/2011 at 5:27 am
i am in the same boat. dumped EU two months ago. suddenly, the thrill of that strength i showed to dump him … is waning. and now i am inventing text messages to send from a new phone no. that i got to avoid seeing that he called/that he didn’t call.
i knew throughout it was a bad deal but i had warm times of hope and of apparent need and interest from him.
but right now … i feel what i sometimes told myself: being without him is just as bad sometimes as being with him.
now that i have cut myself off … there is no warm placeholder there … just a cold spot. and i miss that warm placeholder. so many times i was SO wretched over him … yet right now, thinking of how i will never speak to him again … makes me wish mightily that i could “touch” him.
the fact that he is gone seems so odd. it’s like just ’cause you kicked the addiction, doesn’t mean life is going to be peachy. why you picked the addiction in the first place.
but this break up time has its ups and downs. altogether, i am better off but sometimes it just doesn’t feel like it.
Lynne, I don’t think you realise how close part of your comment is to Mr Unavailable…”now that i have cut myself off … there is no warm placeholder there … just a cold spot. and i miss that warm placeholder. so many times i was SO wretched over him … yet right now, thinking of how i will never speak to him again … makes me wish mightily that i could “touch” him. ”
Instead it would be “Now that I’ve been cut off / disappeared / dumped her… there is no warm placeholder there… just a cold spot. And I miss that warm placeholder even though I just like having her there as an option, not as anything beyond a placeholder. So many times I was so ‘wretched’ over her with her wanting more than I wanted to give and all her damn expectations. Yet right now… Thinking of how she might never speak to me again (which makes me then think I’m an asshole)…makes me mightily wish I could ‘touch’ her…even though once I do touch her, I won’t want to be around her anymore or will have to manage down her expectations. Again”
brenda
on 23/10/2011 at 11:34 am
Lynne….I know where you are and how you feel,I think we all do.
I was thinking the other day,how when I was with this Horrible Man,how I used to walk around on eggshells,always fearing when he out rage and then cut me out of his life,and it happened more than once I might add!The other day I found a notebook,and honestly every second day there was something I had written about his actions and coldness,and me saying I think we should go our seperate ways,I of course never gave him these letters,and I should have!You know in your heart love what is acceptable and what is not,thats why you choose to walk away!I know for me I expected him to come back running saying how wrong he was and he loved me soooooo much…Guess what it didnt happen because he just didnt care,couldnt care,and is an empty well.Give yourself some credit for choosing to live without this Guy,Yes the pain hurts,it feels somedays that you are hanging by a thread,But you will survive and get thru this..It helped me alot to think about me and what is it in me to allow these Men to treat me like shit..And it starts with my self esteem..Try working on you for awhile,its refreshing for me…I was going to sleep the other night,and I said I love you Brenda,and it was hard for me to hear that,and I thought how many times did I say I love you to people and it was so easy…but to myself it was difficult…Every night I say I Love you Brenda,it starts there…Hang in there and keep posting and reading all YOU can..
Natasha
on 23/10/2011 at 4:56 pm
Nat, all of what you said is so dead-on! My ex sends me idiotic texts that he “really misses me” and I want to be like, “Homeboy, in case you haven’t noticed, once you have me…you can’t get rid of me fast enough.” It’s funny, because the last time I took up with him, he was yapping, “there was a gap in my life without you”.
Errrrr, as the signs say in the lovely UK, “MIND THE GAP.”
Leisha
on 24/10/2011 at 12:10 pm
I think it’s possible that he needs his Natasha fix but is content to only receive it on occasion which is not in line with what you want…it doesn’t make you any less nor him, it’s just a matter of difference and different needs which make you incompatible for the relationship which you want. We often have differing abilities of coping with intimacy and must accept that in each other as hard as that seems…remember, feelings are different than thoughts and thoughts are frequently changing…you are such an intelligent and funny woman…I hope you continue to refine and project the relationship that you wish for out in the universe and I believe that relationship will come forth…believe and you will receive…try it…
grace
on 24/10/2011 at 1:23 pm
Leisha
I DO think less of him for it. If you’re not interested in being with someone properly and youknow they’re trying to get rid of you/move on then you should leave them alone. GO AWAY!
We shouldn’t be fooled by “I miss you”. The men who hurt me the most, said it the most.
When I hear it, it makes my hackles arise.
DISCLAIMER: I’m completely hardened to this behaviour. I have not one jot of sympathy for it whatsoever.
Natasha
on 24/10/2011 at 3:29 pm
Leisha, thank you very much 🙂 One of my friends keeps leaving her copy of The Secret at my house, I think it’s a hint haha! I think for my ex it’s not a Natasha-specific thing – more that when he’s out of options elsewhere, I’ll do for the time being. You are absolutely right though, it is what it is and there is much better out there for all of us. Hope school is going well!! *Big Hugs*
Leisha
on 24/10/2011 at 7:07 pm
Natasha, Thanks for the wishes…algebra and me had a falling out with regards to the teaching it online and constant date changes and other irritations that created huge literal headaches for me…I finally said “enough”…I’ll pursue my art and find another way to support myself…I had to find out if I really wanted that path (of nursing) and lo and behold it isn’t really what I need or desire…but I had to find out…it was the end of a circle I started years ago and I am glad to have finally completed it. Was hard and painful but, as with all learning about oneself, very valuable and now I know my path lies elsewhere. I believe we gain from every thing that we do…I don’t know about the book, but the ideas presented seem to come up in many metaphysical areas and teachings…I watched it with subtitles on and sounds off to not allow aural distraction…I find focusing on the positive is where we put our energy to best use. (((hugs)))
Natasha
on 24/10/2011 at 9:30 pm
@Grace – Your disclaimer made me burst out laughing! I agree – it’s not like I was shy about the fact that I was really hurt by what happened and wanted to move on with my life. A decent guy would heed that and stop popping up like an unwelcome zit!
@Leisha – Math (in any form) and I have never gotten along! Have you ever considered interior design? That’s what I do and I love it. I think it’s a great fit for someone that has artistic talent like yourself 🙂 I couldn’t paint a picture to save my life and that’s where I found my creativity. Thank you again for the positive vibes and good wishes!
FX
on 23/10/2011 at 5:38 pm
I think what led to my going NC was I woke up to the fact that I was just a warm place holder and was “having to live by their values to a large extent in order to ‘keep’ them, which in turn leaves you miserable and out of sync with yourself” When it became just too much to tolerate (far, far later than it should have) and I tried to live by and enforce my values and boundaries in the relationship, he disappeared, of course! Ironically, proving that for him it was about the kind of relationship he wanted to have (one where he has all the control) and not the person! I am so embarrassed by the doormat I became and how anxious and unhappy I made myself trying to keep him around and, yet, it still hurts that he let me go that easily after so much history. Totally irrational! Fortunately, at the same time I decided to go NC and found this site which has been a true source of strength and my sanity saver. BTW, I’m FX on the site because his name begins with “F” and I’m done!
colororange
on 23/10/2011 at 12:35 pm
” now i am inventing text messages to send from a new phone no. that i got to avoid seeing that he called/that he didn’t call. ”
lynne,
I thought I was the only one that did that!! I hated that a guy would know my number but seeing that he didn’t call/text made me feel like crap. It was just a constant reminder, the phone, sitting there and no call/text from him coming in.
NICOLE93
on 23/10/2011 at 7:25 am
Hey everyone! I’ve been visiting this website for nearly 2 months now and have been reading tons of NML’s fabulous postings! I just want to say that I love this blog and check the postings daily because it is really that good. This is the first time I’m posting a comment on this blog. That being said…
THIS IS SO ME! After reading so many of NML’s blogs, I came to the rather rude awakening that I’m not as “together” on the love/relationship scene as I thought. I really thought of myself as an intelligent and relationship-savvy young woman. I know I’m both of these things and it made me realize that ANY woman… no matter how smart, attractive, and witty can end up with an EUM or AC. Unfortunate, huh? So to all the women here: you are not clueless, naive or relationship stupid. You’re just women! This post rang so many bells in my ear. I was always focused on the “who” and not the “what”. It didn’t matter how emotionally unavailable, reluctant, commitment-phobic or assholic (a favorite term of mine) the guy was, I was going to forge a “relationship” if it was the last bloody thing I did! I ignored the Amber alerts, avoided the red flags and overall just wanted to tell myself that the “relationship” was a gold nugget instead of a common garden rock. The times that weren’t spent beating myself up over “Why doesn’t he want to be with me in THAT way?” were spent on obsessing over it to my girlfriends. They all saw it for what it really was…. a secretive, rinky dink booty call situation.
LarLa
on 23/10/2011 at 1:49 pm
I am done with Emotionally Unavailable Men and with my EUM in particular. He’s never going to give me the relationship I want so its time to look for the one I deserve. After 2 months of No Contact I was an idiot trying to be friends with him again for the sake of our mutual friends. Then I find out he has a girlfriend in a different country on the other side of the ocean which is not really a girlfriend at all as far as I’m concerned. I’m finally done with him and it actually feels fantastic.
H
on 23/10/2011 at 1:51 pm
Just reading this is raising my self-esteem. Thank you! You are steadily getting through to me and I like it. It is showing me very clearly where I had been going wrong. I like the bit about when you find you have to have it on their terms to keep the relationship. In a culture where the media constantly says that compromise is key to relationships, it’s hard to know what kind of compromise is a step too far. I guess in the past there have been things in my ‘best’ relationships that have over stretched me. I should have walked away, but on balance and compared to my useless relationships, I was blind to the problem, so no wonder I was never able to hold down a relationship for any real length of time. This series of short relationships fuelled the secret fear that I was not good enough and difficult to love or even unlovable. It turns out I was actually wise to end these relationships and that them never lasting was a success on my part, even though I felt like a failure at the time. I now consider myself lucky they didn’t last. Also instead of ‘dating as a discovery period’, I had jumped into bed with all of them too fast, got high on the infatuation I felt and not really discovered them or the relationship potential until it was not working or over. I am now starting to get real. I miss sex, so that is a weakness when I meet someone sexy, which rarely happens. But now I can get real and perhaps make an informed decision to have a sex-fling now and then if that suits my needs, without trying to turn those into relationships. And I can also then ultimately look for something entirely more long term from the appropriate sources. Having a sex-fling is at odds with my values… which is where some of my relationship problems have come from (because I have tried to justify having sex with someone by trying to turn it into some semblance of a real relationship). But at least I can make the choice and assess the man’s potential- some maybe great for short term sex relationships and others for long term commitment. With this criteria in mind, I can see more clearly what is motivating me in each situation and make an informed choice. Maybe I don’t really want any sex-flings at all. But at least I can stop kidding myself and make a decision about the man concerned based on the reality of the situation instead of using sex to justify a relationship. Wish me…
Leisha
on 24/10/2011 at 12:12 pm
Yes, wishing you success, light, love on your journey!
NK
on 23/10/2011 at 11:57 pm
Ha! my ex eum and me have bounched between roles in this one. I used to focus on getting one from him – vice versa. Now he has tried to get something from me. Thank gwod thats over and dun with.
Now, its been about 4 months since I broke up with my ex (whom it did not work out with – he showed a lack of interest either he was commitment phobe, wasnt into me as much he as he thought or incompatible) either way
I got rid. I have moved on now and these answered questions will remain and im ok with that now.
I went this long without any romantic interest then I had a brief encounter with a hottie – which I wasnt planning and got rid of quick time (distraction!), then I met another guy just after whom I start chatting to at an event – didnt even clock on my chemistry radar tbh but we chatted away and had a fun night. Swaped numbers, a few days later he asks me to meet up I say yes. We had a nice date, and this sounds so simple but he asked me out, he planned the date, he called me when I asked. Just these small basic, follow through actions I liked. The last guy I dated just didnt do this!. Now these are BASIC things. So far so nice, the aim is to get to know him more. Any thoughts of more than that I imagine that these thoughts get wrapped in a ball and kicked over a fence, usually works.
Only issue I have, is that he looks a bit like my father. This is wierd. I dont know him personally yet so i have no idea wheather he has any other similarities but the looks and a few other similarities (but really how many people have these similar things?) lots probably. I have found in the past that I have been attracted to men with similarities to my dad (gross but we all are affected!) these were often the negative traits too!
This I wish I wasnt thinking about right now….any thoughts?
PJM
on 24/10/2011 at 1:06 am
Now here’s a funny thing. This weekend’s national newspaper here offered no less that THREE articles that were all variations on this very theme.
It’s funny how support can come from the least-expected quarter! I suddenly feel less like I’m left on the shelf, and more like I’m surfing the cutting edge of a very new wave …
Heartache Amy
on 24/10/2011 at 1:15 am
Hi,
My “relationship” with an EU/MM has ended, as I knew it would. He ended it by sending me an e-mail telling me how much he likes me but how, if he were to leave his marriage to be with me, he’d possibly end up blaming me for hurting his kids. He then wrote how he doesn’t deserve to be happy and that he’s not worth the wait. Whatever. Yes, getting involved with him was a big mistake, and while it still hurts (because I liked him a lot and I’m afraid I still do, on some level), I know that he came on way too strong (and my therapist helped me to see that his behavior has been inappropriate), and that he has some mental/emotional issues (he’s being treated for depression and/or bipolar. Besides feeling somewhat hurt and rejected, and besides the difficulty of seeing him at church every week, I know that with time I’ll feel better and get over it. My concern is for the future. I’m afraid that I’ll keep attracting these Mr. Unavailables and that I won’t see it until it’s too late and I’m emotionally invested. I’m tired of getting hurt, and right now, I feel discouraged about meeting “available” men.
jupiter23
on 24/10/2011 at 7:44 am
I don’t think you should be too worried about meeting men yet (although, easier said than done). You’ll have to work out why you were interested in someone married or it is very likely you will end up in another unsatisfying romantic situation and not heed red flags that would save you much trouble.
Have you considered changing churches, at least for awhile? I’m kind of sickened that even churches are filled with all this intrigue. So much for church filtering out “the bad ones.” Kind of discouraging.
grace
on 24/10/2011 at 9:44 am
amy
his coming on too strong is not the issue. he shouldn’t have been coming onto you at all. his depression etc is secondary. HE IS MARRIED. You still don’t sem to get it. It sounds like a minor inconvenience to you!
You don’t have to respond to everyone who finds you attractive, you’re not that helpless. If you want to avoid unavailable men – start with avoiding men who are married, living with someone, with a girlfriend, shagging anyone, “seeing” someone etc. At least start with someone who is single!
This is YOUR life – no-one else can live it for you. YOU have to make the decisions, not wait for unsuitable men to find you – or even a suitable man – there’s so much more to life than that.
Fearless
on 24/10/2011 at 12:38 pm
Amy, yes… sounds like the typical ‘woe is me’ letter – I am willing to sacrifice being with you for the sake of others whose welfare I put before my own – cos I’m such a good guy. Pfft. Not.
I have read Grace’s response and have little more to add – start by avoiding men who you know already are married lying cheaters. Have a look at Nat’s ten commandments on the right-hand side bar here. And ask yourself what it is about you that made you think an involvement with a MM was worth your trouble.
Heartache Amy
on 24/10/2011 at 11:31 pm
I agree with all of you and I thought I knew myself better than to get involved with a MM. I think it may have to do with the fact that I’m getting divorced and was feeling overly vulnerable…and likely not very desirable or attractive to men. This guy seemed nice (I now know better) and was funny and easy to talk to. And he came on hot and heavy. I’m upset with myself for letting this happen, and I’m upset with the MM for blowing me off the way he did. And boy, did he lay on the excuses and the “woe is me, I’m don’t deserve to be happy” crap. But, what did I expect, I guess. I don’t want to be in a relationship right now but I would in the future. I just don’t want to make the same mistakes again.
Carrie
on 24/10/2011 at 3:36 am
I think I’m just now realizing that the hardest part for me is that I did think my relationship was one of those good ones. I felt such pride that I was one of the lucky ones. What I had always craved (and read the romance books from age 11 on to prove it) was this special kind of shared love. I would always say how lucky we were because we had what most people spent their whole life looking for. I knew it wasn’t perfect, but I thought we were both in it whole-heartedly and truly wanted to make the other person happy (oops – there was my first mistake lol). I really thought my dreams had come true and when the bottom fell out after 6 years I wasn’t prepared for it. I really thought he was it and I had no interest in anybody else. I didn’t find anyone else attractive though he had no problem drooling over big boobs while simultaneously putting the woman down somehow. Oh man I was blind wasn’t I? Was it the wishing for so long to feel that way that allowed me to live in that world for so long.. honestly thinking I had it? The love I had been searching for my whole life… that feeling that was promised me by books and TV and movies. I feel duped to be honest. How will I ever feel like opening my heart again and being emotionally available knowing the pain that’s out there? It’s frightening still to think of making myself vulnerable like that.
I’ve already learned so much thanks to BR and therapy. I’ve got the theory down. But I’m feeling disappointed that what I believed my whole life doesn’t really work that way. There’s no guarantee that if you fall in love and have someone fall in love with you that it’ll be happily ever after. And while I would always say I knew that wasn’t true.. I must’ve been lying because it was what I was searching for and the fact that I believed I had finally found it was what allowed me to stay much longer than I should have. At least I’m aware of it now. I can’t watch a movie or read a book without going “Are you kidding me!! That guy’s obviously EU!”. I still enjoy them for the entertainment value, but boy oh boy do I see this stuff with entirely new eyes. I’ve got a whole knew perspective on the way relationships are portrayed in the media. It’s just so wrong! And we wonder how so many of us women ended up in this place.
SarahJ
on 24/10/2011 at 1:29 pm
Hi, I haven’t posted for a while now and I’ve just been reading, reading & reading! Shamefully I have been the OW/best girl-friend and I’m on Day 4 no contact. I feel dreadful. We were together for 2 years then for the past 4 years we’ve faffed around, both have dated other people but nothing serious. The danger was we always came back to each other, familiar I guess. He has now made the decision to be with his girlfriend but wanted us to remain friends. I know that is only said to ease his conscience and in my heart I know that him staying with her is the right thing to do. I just feel so useless.
I’I know its like withdrawal from drugs & cold turkey is the way forward, so so hard. I know I’ve got to do it. I’m filling my time, zumba-ing lots & keeping busy but still thinking about things a lot. I miss my friend.
Any top tips from you lovely ladies would be muchly appreciated xx
PJM
on 25/10/2011 at 2:08 am
Oh Sarah, first thing:
He. Is. Not. Your. Friend.
It sounds like you’re in way too deep to be ‘friends’ – quickly, re-read everything Natalie has ever said on the ‘being friends’ caper!
And then change your phone number and run like hell. You need to make a nice big circle of space around yourself in which you can heal, because I have a funny feeling you’re going to struggle with NC and drag this mess out for a lot longer than you need to.
Be strong – it IS worth it, and it DOES take time, so be patient with yourself, but don’t don’t don’t break NC.
ColiColi
on 24/10/2011 at 1:46 pm
Great! It is exactly what happened. I was involved like this for 8.5 years of my life with Mr cheater, future faker and all this. His actions showed me that he totally didn’t want relationship with me, but he was constanly saying that one day… I believed that I am worth much more and that finally he will see it. I was miserable most of the times. He even told me once “I will do everything to protect my family”. I couldn’t sleep. How is it possible that he wants to protect his family and in the same time going for hollidays with my kids and comming to my mum and nanna for dinners?!!!!! Finally one year ago I discovered love letters and texts from his wife and him to her and I left him going to my friend to another country to cry and recover. however when I came back he started to call me again! the past year was awfull, most of his lies I could esily discover and I asked him why for God sake he calls and visits me? Finally his wife discovered that we went for a short breake and she gave me hell, including obusive e-mails. I had to report this to the police. Guess what…. he did not even responded to me when I sked him to stop her e-mails and phone calls. He gave her my mobile phone!!!! More he gave her mobile he used to contact me with my texts to him and he gave her my e-mails to him! He was furious with me that I dared to tell her that we had long “relationship” and because of me he lost his family. He texted me “I don’t want you or your family, I had fantastic family which I bow away”. He lied to her that he loves her and adores her, all this shit… just for her to get him back. When she discovered this affair he said that “he once met me”. I was broken totaly. I did not expect that someone can put so much dirt on me, just the night before saying how much he loves me. I felt so lonely, lost, disorientated and did not know how will I survive. Almost 2 months passed. I am HAPPY. I cannot imagine what life I would have if this woman still has closed eyes. I would NEVER have him now. What kind of stupidity I was in? I sill feel extremely low the way he dumped me and exposed me. I feel so disgusted with his cawardness. It is still in me. But , hej, I am free. And never ever Mr cheater in my life, that’s the aim.
Love the blog
ColiColi
jupiter23
on 24/10/2011 at 7:34 pm
I’m glad you have escaped this situation and that you are now happy.
But I do have to say I feel the wife was villianized in your post. I don’t necessarily condone her behavior but find it very honest and her right as his wife to be pissed at the person interfering in her marriage.
Natasha
on 24/10/2011 at 10:49 pm
“How is it possible that he wants to protect his family and in the same time going for hollidays with my kids and comming to my mum and nanna for dinners?!!!!!”
It’s possible because he wanted to have his cake and eat it too and has a serious integrity deficit going on. That being said, I have to agree with Jupiter that you can’t get mad at the wife for wanting to protect her family as well or for communicating with her own husband. Both of my parents had their childhoods pretty much ruined by their fathers’ infidelity and neither of my grandmothers were vindictive women out to make trouble for the mistresses – they just wanted their children to have a happy family. I hope you take all of this as a lesson learned and make a pact with yourself to stay away from liars and cheaters!
FX
on 24/10/2011 at 5:20 pm
I know it is irrational but I’m having a tough time again all of a sudden and wanting so badly for my ex AC to be something different than someone I have to do NC on. Sigh. I just wish I could get him off my mind already and not have days like today when I feel like I literally have a heavy heart.
NK
on 24/10/2011 at 10:23 pm
Go out and go for a walk 🙂 have a coffe or cake or something alike. Just let it drift ….
Tulipa
on 24/10/2011 at 11:37 pm
It always passes this need for contact, and you are always relieved you did nothing when it has passed. The thing I did that worked for me was to write out how the conversation would go and read it over realise urgh and do nothing.
sarah
on 24/10/2011 at 6:58 pm
Another brilliant post. This is me, but I had never thought of it that way. I never dated or had experiences with trying on relationships for size. I simply went from one relationship with a specific person to another one, with long gaps in between. I would feel an “overwhelming” attraction to someone and make it my mission to have a relationship with them. EVery last one has been an EUM or assclown (no surprise). The less they wanted to be there, the harder I worked to prove it was right, even if I had the sinking feeling there was nothing right about it. It never occured to me to not invest to the max in every relationship possibility that came along. It never dawned on me that the “attraction” I felt was need, desperation and some really toxic baggage I was working out. Thank you Natalie, and Fearless, for bringing to the fore something we all needed to acknowledge and STOP!
A
on 25/10/2011 at 1:16 am
I’m trying to sort out this post in terms of my relationship with the EU. I really believe that I wanted HIM, not just a relationship….and that’s never happened before (no past history of that sort of thing). I was actually in a relationship with a really great guy previously, which makes it all the more shameful that I’ve now put up with as much as I have.
I guess maybe I can think of it this way–even though I felt that we could have a life together, wanted so many of the same things, had the great “connection” and great times, etc, the minute any red flags show up it’s time to back away, regardless of how much potential I see. Tough to do when I had never felt that way before.
I am wondering now how much I can trust who I’m attracted to, although since this hasn’t happened before, I’m wondering whether my EU issues just take another form, or whether it was a bit of a one off….in which case I should definitely keep my eyes open in the future, but maybe I’m not a total EU magnet?
AngelFace
on 25/10/2011 at 10:23 pm
I gave my love and 14 months of commitment to a EUM with no Integrity. I looked that word up – Powerful. He is a Liar and a Cheater. The thing is: I gave everything to him without getting an agreement of commitment or even true status of our relationship. (and I mean true status because I knew he was lying and deceiving me, but because of reasons I kept giving it time).
I rewarded him for his Bad Behavior, and as soon as he had the first chance – He brought another woman into the mix *secretely*. She got a couple dates out of him and now is getting his daily phone calls and future faking, but mainly he is a SEXUAL PREDATOR and oh… I just can’t believe I went along with it for so long.
I’m in No Contact – suffering my pain, and knowing my healing is happening…And that I have learned a valuable lesson which I will Never Repeat. Yes, Shopper and Dreamer – Point On.
dawn
on 30/10/2011 at 3:20 am
What was I thinking? Were was my mind when I thought that someone who would cheat on their wife is good relationship material? I’ll tell you where it was it was out to lunch. He said his first wife broke his heart and he was never the same after that. His hurt turned to anger and hardened his heart. Resulting in a man that had the attitude that he wasn’t ever going to put himself in the position ever again to be hurt by a woman again. I flew into florence nightengale mode and felt sorry for him, set out to prove that I was the one to “heal his heart” from past hurts. Who the hell did I think I was??? Took on a job that was not mine. Why? because I stupidly thought that if I could prove to him that I loved him that he would love me. Good way to build my self esteem (not). So he got married again, but not to a woman he loved, he wasn’t going to get involved with anyone that he loved deeply again because he believed that if this one left (because according to him all women left him eventually) he wouldn’t get hurt like before. So i listened to all his bullshit and felt sorry for him. I was gonna fix him and show him what a “real woman” was like. How stupid was that. I am a damaged person myself. That’s why I got involved in the first place. I was trying to escape from my own problems and from dealing with my own issues. In my deluded mind I thought that finding another man would solve all my problems. That if only I was with a man who understood me, loved me and wanted me, and accepted me for who I was that was the answer to everything and I would be happy finally. If I could get this man to think that I was his savior he wouldn’t treat me the way he treats his wife. Like NML says, that I would be the exception to his rule. Deluded thinking. He would do the same thing to me. He is the way he is and he wouldn’t be any different with me. It’s taken me ages to get out of denial about the reality. He’s not relationship material, he is too messed up. And I am not relationship material either, I too am too messed up obviously or I wouldn’t have even gotten involved with him in the first place. And I wouldn’t have related to the excuses/reasons he made for being a cheat if I wasn’t one myself. I owe my awakening to NML and the women on here who share their stories and knowledge which I have learned so much from, that has helped me…
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Love this! I was just like Fearless, i.e. I never was like, “Damn, I wish I had a good relationship.” it was more like, “WHY WON’T {USELESS EX} give me one?! Why am I not good enough? I know he’s ‘dated’ other girls when we weren’t talking. Why not me? I looooove him and it never worked out with any of his girlfriends. {HELLO!} Therefor, I should be a damn girlfriend, because I’m the one who stuck around. {I’m the one who stuck around = I was the one with the lowest self esteem and greatest lack of sense} I know he treats me like crap, but instead of heeding that, I’m going on a Committed Relationship Or Bust mission. Plus, it’s off the chains in the boudoir and we both like to golf. This sh*t is going to work if it kills me.”
If I hadn’t found this blog, I would be going on year SIX of trying to validate myself off of an assclown who had no desire whatsoever to commit to me. Everytime I type that, it stuns me for a good thirty seconds. In that time, was I doing anything to meet a decent guy? Nope. I was too busy focusing on ONE dude like he was…that special (he wasn’t). If someone is not going in the same direction as you are, but is still happy to waste your time, don’t help him by sticking around. At some point, you’ve got to go here for your own sake:
(it really gets rolling at the 2:50 mark)
Ohhhhhhh I love that scene!!!! “It’s six years of never being different.”
What’s not great is shortly after they get back together as though nothing happened. Then he jerks her around again at the alter.
You should do stand-up comedy! I always get a laugh out of your comments! 🙂
I agree–great scene, although I wish the writers had her do this when she was in a relationship with Aiden (and actually stick to her decision). I kind of hate that the show had her going back to Big. Not a great lesson for women, “hang around indefinitely and maybe that guy will eventually come around!
Oh my gosh I will forever watch this series from a new perspective. As a teenager I never really saw that situation for what it was. But as an adult, I was taken aback as this scene totally resonated with me (especially that whole radar thing, I’ve said that myself LOL). I feel like she said what a lot of women/men wish they had said, or are not ready to say…
True story Lia! That episode aired when I was 22 and I can remeber my girlfriends and I being so happy that Big and Carrie ended up together. My, how things change!
@Lavender – Me too! My fav is, “Do you have some kind of radar? Carrie might be happy, it’s time to sweep in and sh*t all over it.” When I watched that ridiculous movie, I was thinking, “Damn girl, you should have stuck with your original sentiments. Even Raoul the chauffeur was probably standing there like, ‘Finally!'”
@Allison – Thank you girl, I’m so glad you enjoy! Humor is a great healer and I think it helped me along tremendously. Yes, my ex is an asshole and the situation was hurtful…but I was being ridiculous. To the extent that at I’ve Lost Count NC, it’s still funny! As my sister put it, “Why are you weeping over a Zero?”
@A – Agreed! My ideal ending would have been that being the final act for her and Mr. Lame. Then Aiden would have shown up in Paris and she’d put the ring on her damn finger this time and marry that fine, furniture-makin’ dude haha!
I hear you sister!
No more ZEROS!!!!
I had erotic dreams about Mr. Big. What does that tell you??? That’s why I’m here. LOL!
That just made me choke on my tea!! That’s why we’re ALL here haha!
p.s. Stringer Bell from The Wire has always done it for me, but I give myself a pass on this one. I mean…IDRIS. ELBA. Come on now. I was relieved to discover that I found him just as attractive as the thoroughly decent John Luther haha!
I loved Aiden, he was such a great guy. I watched the last “Aiden episodes” once with commentary by the writers. They said that they had basically paired Carrie with the perfect guy, and had to figure out a way to end it because they couldn’t have the series continue with her in a committed relationship.
It’s even more annoying that they put her with Big in the end, as even the real life “Carrie Bradshaw” didn’t end up with her Mr. Big.
I always loved Aiden – couldn’t understand why she gave him up for Mr. AC/Big. But wouldn’t that have made Aiden a fallback guy (like us)??? Just a thought!!
I broke contact last month when the AC called – said he missed me, loved me and effed up. My reply was oh your ready to settle for Aimee now?
Needless to say I am back in no contact and blocked his number again, but I have let it mess with my head, once again. They do have a radar – it’s gross. But if we don’t give them a centimeter they can’t s**t on us? Right? RIGHT!!!
@Natasha:
OMG!!! this scene is AWESOME…this is what happens when a woman is FEDUP she ‘skips town on him’-Agreed…love it when she says, “every time Carries gets happy it’s time to sweep in and mess all over it(so funny-but i feel her pain) & when she says that, “he can drive down the street as much as he wants b/c I don’t live here anymore”,lol (such a good scene)…
Now, I’m gonna watch it again..then I’m gonna watch SS2 next,lol,:)NICE..thx4that!!
I’ve not been a Sex in the City fan because mostly I was living it and didn’t have much time to then watch what I was living but this is a great clip. Thank you for posting it. Drive up and down this street, I don’t care, I don’t live here anymore. Loved it. Let’s all leave for Paris! And, yup the minute they have to face their AC selves, they swoop back down. This brightened my night, thank you. You are all so great!
“If you check into a hotel today and complain about the lack of sea view even though you’re bang smack in the middle of a built up area, you’ve either got to accept that the view is the view, or move to a hotel closer to the beach.”
Soooooo true!
I was going to say this exactly!
You’ve either got to accept people with their flaws, or move on. And I’ve found that when you’re truly in love with someone, their little flaws become kind of endearing. Stuff that would have driven you mad with someone else become somehow cute. Love is a crazy thing.
Oh, the relationship erection! Thanks so much for putting it this way, Nat: once again you’re right on the money. I’m through chasing only the diffident boys who give me that “I sense he’s not interested and aloof, so he must be The One” erection — and now I have a clear sense of what I want after all. The kicker is, I learned I absolutely do not want to be married and don’t terribly like having men up close around me all the damned time — and chasing this kind of ephemeral soulmate was an ingenious way of making sure no man ever got close enough to be real, and really bother me. Don’t get me wrong, I like penises and think they’re quite magical… I just get very annoyed very quick by the neediness of what’s attached to them. I’m not lesbian, therefore I can’t figure this out. Trying to gives me a headache. This is why a very clever part of me learned to avoid all this nuisance by simply chasing after an unavailable guy and therefore seeming, to myself and everyone else, “normal”.
What do you call a heterosexual girl who likes the occasional shag, as you Brits call it, with a guy, but otherwise can’t be arsed, as you Brits also say, to have him around at all afterward? Whatever that is… I am. Thanks Nat!
It’s called being an EUW or Emotionally Unavailable Woman. I don’t mean that as a slight, I’ve spent the last 14 years being one myself. Nat has some great articles here on the subject. You should check them out and see if one resonates with you.
Heather, you made me laugh but….I think us Brits would call you a EUW!(given the content of your article….c’mon own it Girl!?
Not wanting a relationship doesn’t necessarily mean a person is emotionally unavailable in the sense that it is used on this forum. Relationships aren’t for everybody, but where you have to be true to yourself is in being honest with the men in your life about what you want.
If you want occasional rolls in the hay without any commitments, then that is what you tell the men you meet. You don’t have to pretend you want something else. When you pretend like that, you’re doing what these EUMs do!
Just be honest. I’ve gone through periods in my life when I didn’t want a long term relationship. Hell, when I was in graduate school, I just wanted to get laid without ANY strings attached, but the guys knew this. There’s nothing wrong with that.
“Emotionally unavailable” IMO has a negative connotation on this forum – it seems to relate to the people we attach to who are incapable of being honest about their feelings and getting their needs met. Besides which “emotionally unavailable” is not a clinical term anyway. But the truth is that we already KNOW that many of the men we are dating are EU but we CHOOSE to ignore it.
The bottom line is that it comes down to HONESTY. Be honest about what you want. You’re not “abnormal” because you want sex without commitment. Everybody’s needs are different. A long term relationship is just one way we can live our lives. There are other ways to live and interact with men too.
But whatever it is that you want, you just need to be honest about it. What’s “abnormal” is lying to a guy to get it, or pretending you want something else.
I’m guilty as charged. You took the words out of my mouth – I didn’t want ‘any old relationship’ (I even thought wanting ‘a’ relationship was a bit, well distasteful, or strange) I wanted to be with my AC, and what ever that took i was willing to do/overlook as I only had my eye on the prize. I ignored the mental gymnastics I had to do to get the prize.
Naturally the AC prize being the main aim (rather than my happiness) meant my focus was on him, and i never actually took a step back to think about what I wanted out of a relationship or what made me happy, guess I didn’t know my own values. It was easier to try and take on his than to figure my own out.
I’mFree:
“I didn’t want ‘any old relationship’ (I even thought wanting ‘a’ relationship was a bit, well distasteful, or strange)”
Yes. Me too – somehow distasteful or strange – exactly! WTF was I thinking????
Natasha: Me too. Your whole comment is me! Wanting a “relationship” – any old relationship was too fuzzy an idea – I wanted a particular man… and when he wouldn’t step up to my plate I stepped right down to his – and it made me miserable (it’s still kinda making me miserable, though I see the total sense in EVERYTHING Natalie has said. I see the problem now.
Natalie: Thanks for this post. Every word is “me”. But I don’t want to be that woman any more! I knew and I knew and I knew time and time again that I was barking up the wrong tree and yet I couldn’t stop barking. I tried many times to drop the whole thing but I always caved in – I see now that was because I didn’t understand myself, my motives or the whole dynamic and I didn’t take my own misgivings seriously enough; I wasn’t for giving in!
One thing you said keeps running through my head: that I wanted the relationship for all the *wrong* reasons. I had never thought of that before. It’s so, so true and I will give a lot of thought to that one from now now on; it also helps me to move on from the aftermath of the ex EUM as I see exactly what you mean by that. Almost all relationships I have wanted, I have wanted for all the wrong reasons; it’s hardly any wonder that I am still single! I just hope it’s not too late for me to make a good relationship for all the right reasons with the right guy.
Thanks Nat x
“…and when he wouldn’t step up to my plate I stepped right down to his – and it made me miserable.”
Ahhh Fearless, you are one wise woman. That is exactly what I did too! All while fronting that I expected him to step up to it. Heeeelllloooo?! This is why we had to kick their arses right off the pedestal. Those pedestals belong in an Assclown Museum where future generations can learn from our mistakes. The plaques would read something like, “Circa 2007: She thought he was the love of her life. He texted her when he had nothing better to do. No cameras, please. The woman involved is still cringing over it.”
Aaaahh Natasha, sadly, I don’t feel one bit like one wise woman. I feel like a twit! I get all the theory…. and that’s about my lot. Pfft. I haven’t seen this good for nothing ass*ole (ex) since April (before that not since late July last year) and I still have days when I have to try really hard not to reach out to him (that’s how much of a twit I am!). I always knew that if I walked away he’d let me go, and pretty easily; that always hurt – and still hurts (tho’ not nearly so bad now).
I like the plaque idea – too funny! Yes, def. no cameras please!
Fearless, I hear that. Everytime my ex “pops up”, I feel like a twit. It’s normal and we all go through it at some point! I still think you are incredibly wise – you have such an on-point grasp of these situations. I have a feeling that your ex isn’t bothering you because your good sense is obvious to him too. Just because it takes some effort on your part not to reach out to him, doesn’t mean you have yourself any less together…because you stop yourself from doing it!
My problem isn’t wanting to reach out, it’s that I have to stop myself from responding. Sometimes, I have to take a walk around the block to stop myself from telling him to leave me alone for umpteenth time (I could hire a skywriter to fly over his house and write “Natasha dislikes you.” and it probably still wouldn’t sink in.). NC is about action and, from where I’m sitting, you’re doing it right!
Fearless, You loved…some people never allow themselves that opening after being burnt…keep your love alive and keep learning and remember the good that comes out of it all…shoot it led you to this community…and it continues to teach you about yourself…so you love him it’s okay…wish him love and keep on going with your capacity to love and appreciate yourself and the wonderful woman that you are…this life is for learning and giving and even a bed of roses has those thorns…and the most beautiful roses still carry their scent and put it out for others to enjoy…keep the faith.
Nat great article…I love the part of you need to find someone on a path similar to yours…
We are all teachers and students…
Natasha and Leisha,
thank you so much for your support – it means a great deal to me as I don’t discuss any of this with anyone beyond BR (I guess cos I played “him” down for so long – goes to show I knew not to make a big deal out nothing!). Yes, I think the ex EUM knows he’s just one big relationship disaster. Ultimately, I knew all along that it was all wrong; I am coming to accept that I did this to myself.
I was reading a biography last night and was struck by the subject having said that one of life’s common experiences had never happened to him – he’d never been ‘in love’. This got me thinking about the topic of this post. I think most people see ‘relationships’ like that. I did. I expected (or hoped) to “fall in love” – and we don’t fall in love with ‘relationships’ we fall in love with people. So is it foolish to harbour the notion of falling in love? I guess the answer is ‘yes’ if the person you’re falling in love with has no or limited capacity to love you back and being in love with them is only going to make you miserable. For some reason I assumed that I couldn’t choose who I fell in love with – I see now that maybe I can (or that I should have).
I love this post! They always seem to come at the right times. Here’s the deal though… I’m completely confused on how to accept “the view is the view”?!?! Through the issues behind “the view” there are underlying mutual values and qualities that we share. So its there and there is love but how do I move past the fact that my boyfriend is dependent on helping his recovering adict brother who lives in his bedroom and completely depends on him for EVERYTHING from $$ to entertainment. How????
There’s a show that comes on in the States called ‘Intervention’ on the network A&E. Google it and check out a few episodes (available on A&E website). The series really illustrates the role that enablers play in addiction. Often enablers are told by interventionists to go to codependents anonymous meetings, that helping addicts is an addiction in and of itself. Believe it or not, it is quite common for enablers to suffer similar consequences as substance addicts (bankruptcy, loss of homes/ jobs, inability to maintain healthy romantic relationships). This may help you understand the dynamics that may be happening here. That said, if he is unwilling to let his brother take responsibility for his lifestyle, this is another case of ‘the view is the view’ and you may have to jump ship. You deserve someone who treats you as their #1 priority no matter what is going on. Period. Best wishes, lots of hugs, stay strong!
I’ve found that slot of them do lie about what they want. They DO tell you they want a relationship with you. Then x months or whatever later you get dumped. Then they’re with someone else.
Yes, fedup, my ex EUM insisted that he did want to be with me – to buy a house together (to even have a child together!), but his actions belied these words… and he was not exactly insistent upon them! He was full of his own bullshit, basically. I argued with him at times that he didn’t want any of these things and he insisted that he did – that he just had to “sort himself out” – this ‘argument’ went on (intermittently) for years until I stopped pressing him about it and when I stopped pressing him, hey presto, he stopped telling me he wanted to be with me. Putting any weight on his words when I knew they didn’t hold any water was just an excuse for me to stay in it.
With you Fed Up and Fearless, I was duped in same way…promises of me being the next Mrs……, ‘the proposal would be on the table in six months!’plans to move me from my city to his(we even talked over utility bills etc), I started looking for jobs near him, made provision for my adult son to live in my house, all encouraged by the EUM. He sold a house he had part ownership of as it would help’create’ a future for us. Then I found he was still sniffing round dating sites and sending ‘offers of sex’ to an ex girlfriend and that he had probably had a fall back girl(s) all his life. This gave him comfort and control whilst promising me the world.
You know, I do not obsess about this anymore because on some level I knew he was shady. My work today is on me and how I was so bent out of shape that I put up with it for so long. trusting your gut instinct is so important to me these days.
I agree that they’re going to tell you what you want to hear, and they know we want to hear that they want a relationship.
But you can still keep your feelers up and make sure you are evaluating their behavior in relation to their words as you are going. Yeah it’s true we can still get blindsided x months down the road because “we never saw it coming and they said they wanted it” but just evaluate-evaluate-evaluate – usually there will be clues and cues as you are dating that things are not what they seem.
The minute you pick up on those, either bail, or give it the three strikes rule – they get three incidents of bad behavior and then they’re gone.
The last guy I was with started his weird performances with our first date. He was about 40 minutes late without an excuse. I told him if he was late again he needed to be respectful enough to tell me in advance and /or reschedule. The late thing never happened again, but there were other weird things going on, like never being available on a Friday night, etc.
So yeah they can lie to us but you have to keep your antennae up for the cues that their behavior is not matching their words.
Molly,
I believe in the ‘Quick Screening Process’ now too. I had been emailing a man who sounded good on paper, however when I talked to him on phone could tell he was a negative, and possibly depressed/jaded man. I told him I am unable to date him. Never even gave this one a chance at first date. NEXT!
They move on quickly… and hurt the next one same way – because they don’t take the time to learn or improve themselves.
Fedup:
My X is already with someone else… He kept promising to take me for a weekend to a cabin on lake. He took her, plus she got a couple of restaurant dates with him. This hurts a bit – but when I reinforce to myself who she is actually having to deal with, and all the lies and trouble and abuse headed her way….. I am not jealous and the pain is a little less. I also know his style is a sexual predator narcissist who always has a coral of women he can contact for his need to be met. He has NO INTEGRETITY, and is careless with other people’s lives.
Wonderful Natalie, thank you.
Those words from Fearless made me nod so hard my brain was getting all jiggled inside. I’ve been noticing that I hardly have a clue what a happy, calm, peaceful, wholesome, safe relationship feels like. Okay. Back up… I hardly have a clue what a happy, calm, peaceful, wholesome, safe me feels like. No one EVER told me that those are prerequisites to love, not goals. (Not my mother for sure.) I grew up around enough harsh criticism that if I’m feeling insecure and doubtful, it’s just business as usual.
I think we have to be able to reject those feelings before we can reject the people who trigger them. Shifting to, opting for, something simple, healthy, constructive, worthy, wholesome. All the time. Every minute of the day, until it’s who we are.
Amazing, how tricky it is to learn to live with self respect and integrity if it wasn’t an early gift in life. Then once it gets more automatic, when some male prospect comes along, I’ll opt in or out because that’s how I’m living my life anyway, always moving towards the good feelings with good conscience. I have opted out a couple of times since I’ve gone NC and I never wonder what I was missing.
Cave:
“I think we have to be able to reject those feelings before we can reject the people who trigger them.”
I am with you on that cave; Like you, when I felt like that it seemed like ‘business as usual’ – I didn’t quite realise that I was allowed to reject those feelings; that I was allowed to expect NOT to feel like that! I know now; and I am now very aware of how people (in whatever area of my life) make me feel, and I now feel permitted to reject those feelings and remove or distance myself from people who trigger them. It’s a terrible thing to feel that you are somehow not worthy of putting your own welfare or emotional well-being at the top end of your priority list.
YES Fearless the ‘trigger people’! Only a fraction of them are actually consciously pushing our buttons… But so what? Who cares if they’re doing it or I’m “making it up”. Here’s where I trip up: my synapses start firing and the brain lights up like a Christmas tree trying to compute, Is this guy an assclown, or a gentleman with honourable intentions? What if he is trying to be a decent nice guy, shouldn’t a nice girl like Fearless or Cavewoman stick it out and roll with the punches in the name of love or friendship? It’s gonna sting every time I so much as think about this man, but hey I’m a tough cookie! etc.
I love AdriennebytheSea’s counselor’s observation about the ‘diminished self’. I too was raised to ‘quit whining’ with ‘no talking back’ and ‘don’t be so selfish’, so I tend to be a bit of a doormat. Doing what feels right and being true to yourself are such alien ideas that to my ears the former honestly sounds like a recipe for disaster and the latter a corny cliche!
Yes, cave; I remember being very frustrated with my parents when I was a child and a teenager… in fact right into adulthood! I felt I was never listened to; my views and my issues, which I thought were fair enough, were ignored/dismissed. I didn’t have a voice that my parents thought was worth listening to – my mother now (quietly) knows I was in fact absolutely right about so many things that I tried to raise with them (in time, I was proved right and if I’d been listened to much of the shit that happened could have been avoided, or handled more effectively). I would like to read more about the ‘diminished self’; I find that interesting too.
Being dismissed, having to fall in with what everyone else thought was a good idea (even if I didn’t) and then being expected to help deal with the ensuing shit, feeling voiceless and not mattering very much was all business as usual for me! I always knew when shit was happening but I never felt I could control it – I guess I learned to be ‘passive’. I am not having any of that any more. i want to control what happens around me and what happens to me. I was away with some family at the week for a few days, some behaviour (drink related) I found to be very selfish and inconsiderate, I got up the following day, spoke to no-one, got in my car and drove myself home – I felt bad about it; am till wondering if i over-reacted and am a prudish pain in the ass; but know what? it made me feel that i didn’t matter, that I had n control over what happened TO me and around me – it triggered those feelings, so I simply refused to engage as if nothing had bothered me; as if nothing had happened; people who misbehave with drink expect everyone else who has had to put up with them to have selective amnesia the next morning. Not me. Not any more. Yes, changes are afoot!
Cavewoman, your posting really hit home with me when you wrote: “I hardly have a clue what a happy, calm, peaceful, wholesome, safe me feels like. No one EVER told me that those are prerequisites to love, not goals. (Not my mother for sure.) I grew up around enough harsh criticism that if I’m feeling insecure and doubtful, it’s just business as usual….I think we have to be able to reject those feelings before we can reject the people who trigger them. Shifting to, opting for, something simple, healthy, constructive, worthy, wholesome. All the time. Every minute of the day, until it’s who we are.”
I was speaking with my counselor this week exactly about this: how I have made choices in my life (career, relationships, money, etc.) from a “diminished self” — and as my counselor said, after a while, you start to believe that your “diminished self” is your authentic self! But, of course, it’s not! Like you, no one (certainly not my mother) ever modeled good self-esteem behavior nor exactly encouraged it in me–I got a lot of mixed messages growing up with a healthy dose of not being acknowledged/seen as a person, let alone a person whose needs should be important and separate from other people’s. I just love what you wrote–this is what I am working on, too, being happy, whole, safe as myself, first, so that the choices I make in future (all of them in my entire life) are aligned with who *I* really am and what supports *me* as my “exalted self.” I am working on rejecting those diminishing feelings in myself so that I can firmly hit the *flush* when other people bring them ’round. Your post really articulated what I am experiencing right now–thanks so much, Cavewoman! Cheers to you! 🙂
Cavewoman,
I so relate to what your’e saying. It takes courage, daily discipline and awareness to shift to the place of self love and make these feelings your normal way of living. I am really learning this finally in my 46th year….and what I notice is that when I live from an authentic place of self love, I seem to talk less, because I am not looking for approval or validation. When I talk now, it is from a real place….once you learn this way of living you can’t go back to the way you were…to a place of just reacting to whatever comes across your path and inviting anyone in your life just because they like you….that’s not enough now and it will never be enough… anymore…what a relief and what a sense of freedom.
Oh Natalie, I’ve so been looking forward to your insights on Fearless’ comments about being focused on “who” not “what”. Since Fearless’ comments, I’ve been thinking about how I’ve bought into the “who” regardless of what the “who” had on offer. My who’s have never had anything to offer but I was so determined to pin the tail on on donkey, I beat that three legged donkey into the ground repeatedly, telling him what a no good worthless donkey he was, I threw my toys off the pram, stamped my foot, and spewed ultimatums like comet showers. To no avail. How humilating for me. Of course, I didn’t have the foggiest clue what a healthy relationship could be, I just figured he was it and he better reciprocate because I’d given so much, cough up the relationship goddammit cos I said so .
It turned upside down when I started thinking about what I wanted instead of who. As I’ve focused on what I want, it screens out the 3 legged donkeys. I hit on this in my first week of NC when I starting journaling about my goals. I want a healthy relationship based on love, respect, and trust. I want to be number one. I wrote in my journal 10 months ago something like: If you want a healthy relationship, stay NC with the MM. If you want to be an option, call the MM now. If my goal is to have a healthy relationship, the MM gets flushed. Natasha, I’m stunned too. OW’s, MM’s are only to happy to waste your time. What do you want, not who do you want? Can you get what you deserve from being an OW? I identified with Nat’s decription of booking the room on the freeway overpass and wanting the room on the white sand beach.
Runner, no matter what flavor of EUM/AC we were each involved with, I think a very common thread in these stories is, “WTF was I thinking?!” I think it’s a very positive sign, because it means that the abnormal has ceased to appear normal!
@ Natasha
“WTF was I thinking?!” I think it’s a very positive sign, because it means that the abnormal has ceased to appear normal!
I had one of these moments a few days ago and I feel so free and at peace today! Watching my “crush,” drunk yet again off his a**, take mean potshots at his roommate and basically being a total jerk, had me sitting across the room banging my head like “I shoulda had a V-8.” What the ef was I thinking? I refuse to let anyone in my life who doesn’t treat me (and others) with care, respect, love, dignity, VALUE ~ be they male, female, canine, feline, equine…
Natasha, you are too funny and keep me grounded. I loved your AC Museum comment. It’s got be a very, very large building based on the comments on this blog. I’m thinking the AC Museum should be on Balboa Island, Newport Beach, California. There are ferris wheels and roller roasters, white sand beaches, toasty weather, and tons of AC/EUM/MM’s. I’d like the AC/EUM/MM’s to see themselves in a museum, all lined up with plaques that read how much they hurt us. I’m still coming to grips with this post. I did it, repeatedly: “It’s like you meet someone and even if they’re the biggest jackass in the universe or keep telling you that they don’t want what you want or they show you, you keep pinning the tail on them or shouting “You’re it!” CRINGE, SMACK, HEAD DESK, FACE PLANT, WTF. I obviously wasn’t thinking. I wasn’t even operating in the same universe. Gotta get out of my fantasy universe ASAP. Gotta go now cos I gotta go kick my arse all around my backyard.
Runner,
“obviously wasn’t thinking. I wasn’t even operating in the same universe. ”
Me too. Can you give my arse a boot about the yard while your at it!
I actually used to say to a friend of mine re the EUM – ‘it’s not as if I’d be putting up with his crap if someone better came along / if someone better came along the EUM wouldn’t see me for dust, but I’m hardly beating them off with a stick!”
Oh dear… no one better was EVER going to come along while I was investing myself in a whole pile of nothing. Yet, I would deny that the EUM was holding me back – I can see now that he SO was!! Emotionally, I was completely and utterly stagnant. I now find myself noticing quite a lot of attractive men around my own age (just in the passing), and yet I would never have noticed them before – cue Art Garfunkel: ‘I only have eyes for you….’
Duh.
“It’s got be a very, very large building based on the comments on this blog.”
Ahhh Runner, you crack me up too!! 🙂 I’m totally down with having the Museum on Balboa Island. I’m not sure if you’re an Arrested Development fan, but if you are, you know that we could hire Lucille Bluth to give relationship advice and Gob could come in and do a magic show.
Don’t be so hard on yourself sister, we all have to kick our little bums around the backyard a time or two (or approximately 37, in my case).
runnergirl and fearless,
Yes, when I was seeing the exEUM, it was hard for me to even think about dating anyone else. I remember (I was 21 or 22 then, 25 now), this cute, sweetheart had asked me out. I had one conversation with him and never answered his calls again.
Every time the “cute sweetheart” would call me I would hope it was the EUM calling and would often break down and call the EUM. During those early days, there were a lot of guys asking me out–mostly because the job I was doing had me out and about but I was so “in love” I couldn’t think about dating any one else. When I did go on dates, it would just make me sad about the EUM.
But I can’t regret any of those guys just because the experience I had with the EUM caused me to go to graduate school, move across the country, and basically get my sh*t together. I had some more run-ins with the EUM, but as soon as I put distance and NC between us for long periods, I could date others.
I knew I was okay when I went out on a date with someone–felt absolutely no sparks, knew I would never date him again, and still felt good for having a nice conversation and dinner. It was a blind date, and he wouldn’t let me pay for anything (got to love that!) If I still had the EUM in my life, I would have been in tears when I got home. NC is the only way.
Blueberry Girl, I think it’s a very good sign when we get to ther point where it’s like, “Remind me again, what did I ever find attractive about your character? *CRICKETS*” Good for you for flushing this one!!
Fearless, Natasha, & Blueberry Girl,
Fearless, I spared you a kick in the bum. I figure you are doing fine in that department. “Oh dear… no one better was EVER going to come along while I was investing myself in a whole pile of nothing.” I did it too. My Miss Self-Sufficient justification/fanstasy was that I could date any time and the exMM “wasn’t in my way”. Of course, he was. I was so blinded by what he wasn’t offering and so busy trying to the tail on that particular donkey, I wouldn’t have noticed if Brad Pitt showed up at my doorstep. In any event, we are in a better place now, right?
Natasha, I was thinking that rather than an AC Museum, we need to do an AC/EUM GRAVEYARD filled with their tombstones. They’d just see their statue in the museum, admire themselves, and ignore the plaque. A cold, dark, damp boneyard filled with tombstones with vampires roaming around. I’m not an Arrested Development fan but it sounds like a fitting analogy. I feel like my development was more than arrested!
Blueberrygirl…”I shoulda had a V-8″ made me howl! Good for you girl. Thank you all and thank you Natalie for helping me get some clarity even if it is painfully humiliating. WTF!
Natalie and Fearless,
I LOVE the 10 Commandments and the links to the articles. Natalie, placing articles in the context of smart dating is brilliant. You have a fabulous knack with context and connecting the dots. I’ve been re-reading the articles hit on your amazing insight in the article on being an option which directly relates to pinning the tail on this particular unavailable donkey. Natalie wrote: “Being an option means you’re uncommitted and they’re uncommitted.
It also means that you’re prevented from having the choice to be available for an available relationship because being someone’s option shuts you off to other opportunities. Don’t believe me? If you’ve ever tried to date while being an option for someone, you’ll have struggled to be emotionally present and correct because you’re unavailable and into the person you’ve optioned yourself to.
You’ll never be able to move on with your life, feel a sense of personal contentment and forge a happier, mutually fulfilling relationship with someone that values you, if you’re option for someone else that doesn’t or only values you for what they can get out of you on their terms.”
That’s it in a nutshell Fearless. No wonder I couldn’t date or move on because I was too busy being his option and too busy doing the backbreaking work in putting my “bucket down an empty commitment well in the hope that on the gazillionth try, some commitment water will finally come up”. I won’t describe what actually came up! Glad it did cos it needed to come up so I can unload it and move forward. How exciting.
Runner:
“Don’t believe me? If you’ve ever tried to date while being an option for someone, you’ll have struggled to be emotionally present and correct because you’re unavailable and into the person you’ve optioned yourself to.”
Yes, that struck a serious chord with me when I first read it. It’s so true – we are kidding ourselves on if we think we are “free to date” when we’re occupying option status for some absentee, time-wasting user. I struggled to be emotionally present even when I was at various social occasions, never mind dates, because I was always wishing “he” was there with me or that I was with “him” instead. Pfft. No more!
Thank you, Natasha, for a great laugh, the best one this month, w/your “crickets” aside. How true!
I finally feel this way about EVERY EUM who has come, is coming, and will come, into my life.
I’ll say it for the record…”WTH?? was I thinking??”… I have to admit that I’ve said it a lot of times as well,lol, but it’s ironic that I prolly wasn’t ‘thinking’ (critically) at all (a relationship2nowhere), Wow,oh well, And This Too Shall Pass…
I really needed to see this. I will read it over and over until I get me right on this topic!!! Thank you!
Natasha! That’s brilliant. Your comment completely echoes my story with a useless ex and isn’t it amazing once you see the light (after those blinkers come off!) Nat, great post as usual xXx ps. “Off the chains in the boudoir” Love this expression 😀
EmJay, it’s so true how similar a lot of our experiences are…all further evidence that none of these guys are special 😉
p.s. I use the term “boudoir” as much as possible, as it always makes me think of Blanche Devereux haha!
I finally kind of started to get that the ex-EUM couldn’t offer me commitment or a relationship or anything even remotely worth having when I started to visualize my demands for a committed relationship from an unlikely source as actual tangible things, such as ridiculously huge sums of cash.
The relationship dynamic, then, was as follows:
Me: “GIVE ME A MILLION DOLLARS!”
Him: “I’ve told you over and over and over again! I don’t have a million dollars! How many times do I have to tell you before you get it?”
Me (screaming): “I DESERVE A MILLION DOLLARS BECAUSE I’VE MADE SO MANY SACRIFICES FOR YOU AND PUT MY LIFE ON HOLD AND REDUCED MY EXPECTATIONS AND ACCEPTED YOUR CRAP BEHAVIOR AND PUT YOU ON A PEDESTAL AND GIVEN YOU EVERYTHING! YOU OWE ME A MILLION DOLLARS!”
Him: “Um, yeah…so I still don’t have a million dollars to give you, even if I wanted to, which I don’t. But I do have two pennies, if you’re still interested? Oh, apparently you *are* still interested in two pennies instead of million dollars, since you’re still around…”
Me: (sobbing)
And the light started to dawn about how insanely absurd, embarrassing, and futile my behavior really had been and that if I ever wanted committed and healthy relationship, I was going to have to look elsewhere.
I’m now looking elsewhere.
Cheers.
(Note: I used a ridiculously huge pile of money as a visualization tool and as an analogy, not because I place a high value on money and socio-economic status per se, but just to demonstrate the absurdity of my demand for something impossible for him to give me. Feel free to modify the analogy in any way that might make more sense! Carry on!)
Mags- brilliant brain exercise!! I love this, totally going to use this! Thank you!
Great analogy. 🙂
@Magdalena (really like ur name,nice:))
This post is AWESOME, lol, ….I see it, makes sense!!
I put my “reluctant source” of an X into No Contact. He had several attributes that were positive, and with those I shaped my desire for him and wanted him in my present and future life. However, such a roller coaster as his negative attributes pounded out. His verbal abuse, lack of empathy, lies, cheating with other women…These wore on me and made me suffer – but still I was holding on to him…and the thought of him as a good man, which he isn’t.
With the help of Baggage Reclaim, Natalie, and all who post, I am taking back my power and my life and my joy. I still have my bad days, but am doing my best to take care of myself, and to heal.
I lowered my boundaries and my values out of sheer loneliness and lack of a relationship with a man. Was without relationship for over five years, and by the time this man walked into my life – and we were instantly attracted and drawn to each other – I was nearly desparate for him. Then I was reluctant, but willing to let him “drive” the relationship, and I had hopes he would Love Me, pick me, and be with me. But he cheated on me at same time secretely, with multiple women. So now it is over.
I have date number 4 tomorrow night with a so far, very good and decent man. He is not a typical ‘type’, and as he is far more quiet and reserved than who I normally date, I sit back and observe him…. and know he is already giving me so much more RESPECT and kindness and consideration, and that our values seem to be lining up., he is giving me so much more than the X who I now have in No Contact… The one that made my heart pound, but who was destroying me.
The man I thought was the Ritz is a skid-row vacant flop house with a bit of sparkly facade from when first built. My eyes are open to see the truth, and to not settle for something I do not deserve. Thanks Nat!!!
@AngelFace – so happy to read this. It sounds like you are well on your way to you. 🙂 I went on date #1 last night. For the first time, in my life, I LISTENED to the answers I got from the questions I asked. I’m a journalist by training so I’m always asking questions – what I realised last night though, was that when I asked guys questions it was simply so THEY would see how interesting, and interested, and intelligent, and witty, and charming I was. But I went deaf when they answered my questions. I mean, clearly I went deaf – because I got involved with my ex! It was about getting THEM to like ME instead of gauging their answers against my standards. Last night, though, I actually listened to the answers to my questions and lo and behold, he said something that required further exploration. So I asked a follow-up question, and another and another…I was so interested in the answer to my question (aka. I was more interested in figuring out whether he was someone *I* was willing to go on date #2 with) that I actually didn’t care whether he liked my questions or not. They just had to be asked because, I realised, NO CONTACT HAD WORKED ITS MAGIC. All the hard work I had put into no contact (interesting how no contact can be such hard work), and all the work I put into being with myself, dealing with me, re-aligning my values (which I had compromised severely to be with my ex) getting myself back and focusing on my life and happiness was paying off naturally. All of a sudden HE wasn’t the prize. My happiness was the prize. And the question became: does he fit? Boy. It was life changing to date consciously for once. Granted it’s date #1. I have no expectations one way or the other. I am, deep down, so happy with who I am, what I’m accomplishing and where I’m going that there isn’t room for someone who shouldn’t be there. Thank you Natalie.
snh:
“All of a sudden HE wasn’t the prize. My happiness was the prize.”
I think that’s a great way to describe the topic here. Thanks for putting that so succinctly. For me the prize was always “him” and in constantly trying to win the prize I was compromising my own happiness – I was actually miserable (that was the real prize – misery!).
You are spot on – the prize is not a “him”, it’s my own happiness. Love that. That will help me, thanks.
Fearless: I’m happy that resonated with you. Really happy. 🙂 I’ve heard it said before, ‘the road is hard. love softens it.’ – I’m realising now that this elusive love that I’ve been searching for to soften the road of my life is, in fact, the love I give myself through doing the things that are right by me. They have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with a man. It’s been pretty revolutionary for me. I realised the other night, after the date, how important this really hard, frankly quite painful time alone with myself has been because the truth is, there are no baggage-free people, let alone men, out there. Which made me see how important it is for me to be a whole person pursuing my own life, seeking only a complement -not a “fill” for the void. There’s no other safeguard against other people, men included, other than self love – which I’ve come to interpret as doing (actions… like NO CONTACT) the things that are conducive to my happiness and balance. And relentlessly counter-acting/thinking/saying anything that would hurt me – even if that action or thought was, gasp, self-generated. I’m a work in progress – the key word being progress.
I could not relate to this article MORE Natalie, literally every word! THIS is my problem in a nutshell– trying to extract “relationships” from unlikely sources (and you described it PERFECTLY by describing it as a “backbreaking mission,” because that’s EXACTLY what it feels like!). Worst of all, is that these men tell me outright that they have problems and are too f-ed up to have a relationship with me, and yet… IT DOESN’T STOP ME! In a sense, the tragic thing is, I seem to pick men who are least GOOD ENOUGH to be honest enough to TELL ME that they will only hurt me and not give me what I deserve.
The thing I perhaps MOST identified with, is how you were talking about wanting a relationship with not just ANY man, but with a PARTICULAR man, and just focusing on that man, no matter how inappropriate he is. Worst of all was this last incident with a man I fell for who basically did everything BUT say he’s gay (but he pretty much spelled it out). And now I’m actually upset that he’s stopped calling and that he no longer acts like my “boyfriend,” when he never really was, and the reason for it is as basic as him not being attracted to women! Yet I am taking this personally, feeling like he was surely different for his ex “girlfriends,” even though they all cheated on him which proves he wasn’t satisfying them that way.
I am very upset with myself that I am in this mess again, because this new man is completely different from my ex, except for now his clear unavailability. But this is one of your best articles Natalie. I can relate to every word, every analogy. I’ve been putting that “bucket” down the empty “well” for years now, and naturally, it always comes up empty. ;(
Oddly enough I have never experienced this. I always have known what I wanted from a partner and what I can give. I have experienced the mismatching of talk and actions, but then I walk and get out before it is too late. The last relationship I prolonged the inevitable because I was making excuses for his behavior, but in the end, it was the right thing to do for me even though I was quite miserable before and immediately after. It sucked because I cared about him and he probably never cared about me.
I spent 4 long years trying to get my Mr Unavailable to commit, but he always had an excuse for not giving me what i wanted. It was such a waste of time and energy and i wish i could have spent my time looking after myself instead, or even dating available men. I was thinking along the lines of: ” ive put so much time and energy into this so im not gonna fold now, this bastards gonna give me what i deserve!”
I came to my senses thankfully after finding BR and found out it wasnt just me causing all the problems. I blamed myself for too long and totally lost myself in all the drama. Now i know he is just as much responsible and it wasnt me just imagining things, he is Not Available for a healthy relationship!!! BOTTOM LINE!!!
Omg, this is the TRUTH!!
Didn’t do the HW for that dude & didn’t check his values in detail to see if they were aligned with mine, had I done that I would have ran for the nearest exit like ‘a bat out of hell’! I’ve learned that he had very different values than mine, we were raised differently, different culture, country,etc.. his values were widely flexible in comparison to mine(he loved more freely as if it was okay for him to adopt more than one wife or lover,etc.)- therefore-so not compatible!
Agree with this entire post, wish I had this knowledge b4 I would have chosen better for myself…Thx :-)!
NML, I agree whole heartedly….
“What you don’t realise when you pin a relationship on a person that isn’t appropriate, is that while you’re trying to ‘get them’ to give you the relationship, you end up having to live by their values to a large extent in order to ‘keep’ them, which in turn leaves you miserable and out of sync with yourself. You’re trying to convince them into your values and they’re sticking to their guns – incompatible.”
“You’ve got to align yourself with someone that’s on a similar path to you. When you truly want something, you don’t invest a chunk of your life trying to get it from someone that doesn’t want to give it and shows they’re not giving it.”
What a great Post!But no surprise there!
My Mom and I had went for a walk today and I was telling her all about this site and Nat,and saying I am finding closure,strenght,and learning more about who I am and what I have settled for in my life!
I am amazed when I look back and see the choices I have made in regards to the types Of Men I have attracted,they all had issues,and the ones that didnt,well I ran away from them because they were to healthy or in Moms words to BORING!!!I have been feeling stronger every day,and am realizing that People cant give what they dont have…Its a shame we have to learn that the difficult way,but to be honest I am also kinda thankful as It has brought me to a place where I WILL NEVER settle for shotty and shady behaviour again…I will not only walk away but will run for the hills if I see one red flag!!!
Brenda, I’m right there with you. All of my men have had issues, from childhood abandonment to PTSD from being involved in wars, I’ve really had some projects on my hands. And not only are they incapable of giving me what I need, but they also made me pay the price for their past suffering (read: abuse). And where are the ‘boring’ ones I ran away from: in serious relationships and/or engaged. I swear to God I am done with this, I am not doing this rescue shit anymore. Cuz at the end of the day, I am the one who needs to be rescued from them and the damage they cause. We’ll get there, this blog has helped me tremendously.
I very much recommend the film soon to be released in the UK (saw it at a foreign film fest in the States last week) ‘David is Dying’ to anyone who has been in this shitty relationship pattern. A synopsis of the film will say that its about a man who contracts HIV from having affairs and may have given it to his fiancée and unborn child, but what it really offers is a view of the world from a man who is completely messed up from childhood trauma and emotionally unavailable. Very powerful film, spoke volumes to me because I have been there (minus the HIV thank God). There is no remorse, no empathy at all for his fiancée, he slowly sucks the life out of her. Reinforces the ideas that men cannot be ‘fixed’, cannot give beyond their capacity, and can do some serious serious damage if you don’t get out.
I googled the film..I am in Canada,soI am going to watch carefully if it is playing somewhere..Thanks for the Tip…I get so much from this site and everyones story…I dont feel like I am the only one who has gone thru this…Before I found this site,I honestly did not know what an EUM was,I thought it was me and I was some kinda crazy!!!!
“I am amazed when I look back and see the choices I have made in regards to the types Of Men I have attracted,they all had issues,and the ones that didnt,well I ran away from them because they were to healthy or in Moms words to BORING!!”
LOL, soooo guilty of this myself, so I definitely can relate. Men and women in these “relationships” tend to be two peas in one effed up pod, only neither one of them knows it. My male best friend told me that emotionally unavailable men think the same way we do. When you chase after him you throw him off of your scent, for a while at least, by seeming as though you are emotionally available, which is the last thing that he honestly wants even if he claims to, or even wants to want that. By always being available we think we’re sending one message when he’s getting another. Even though we might be consistent and reliable, the flipside to that is “boring” to someone who doesn’t feel worthy or believes that you have to work for love (hence why we may have found ourselves shying away from someone whose “boring”). And because they don’t actually want a relationship, they dodge you because they cannot step up to the plate and maintain, and they know it. They will stick around, but only for a woman who they figure has more issues then they do, or someone whose a “challenge”. But women who try to be the exception to the rule, or try to prove themselves end up playing right into their hands, ending up hurt and empty handed in the end. Love is not supposed to be hard, it’s not always easy, but not hard if it’s right. People who don’t truly love themselves will not be able to give even an inkling of that to someone who will know what to do with it.
So glad that you’re through with the drama too…
Fightingforfreedom and Lia!!!I am so thankful that we are able to finially see this for what it is!
I was thinking today As I was getting ready for work,If I buy something at the store that is damaged or broken,I dont hesitate to bring it back and get a refund,or at the very least an exchange..And yet when I meet these damaged or broken individuals,I try and keep them around knowing they dont work!!!I have learned I cannot fix anyone,but myself,and this is really what we are all here to achieve…
My ex EUM,is now on a well known free dating site,that to me is all about getting a piece of ass,and yet his profile says longterm….Im thinking,Go for it you piece of shite!!I would not want him back if he was attached to a million bucks…He will be at the foot of a mountain,and I will be over it because of the work I am doing on myself!!!Im free!!!!!
So very true!I just could spend hours if I had it on here!!!!
You don’t want to admit that you’ve made a mistake.
This whole article made me squirm with embarrassment I related to all of it.
What really smacked me in the face is admitting I made a huge error in judgement in my last relationship. I feel like he has to stump up and give me what I demand I will not be screwed over again.
I like Natasha put up with all the crap bouncing back from humilating situations he put me through smiling saying yes I’m still here. Now pay up I will not admit my hurt my humilation my defeat I will just keep been here.
Right, I must get them to give me a relationship!” Privately I was very concerned that I wasn’t entirely sure that I wanted the relationship but I had set these missions to prove to myself that I’m good enough to be given a relationship, especially from a reluctant source.
Yes I relate so much to this I am concerned I want someone to give me something who doesn’t want to and I’m not entirely sure that I want the relationship anyway.
Hope I make sense this post is a very accurate insight into me.
“Privately I was very concerned that I wasn’t entirely sure that I wanted the relationship but I had set these missions to prove to myself that I’m good enough to be given a relationship, especially from a reluctant source.”
YUP! I would also think to myself on rare occasions of rationality, “If I got him to be my boyfriend, would he really be that much of a different person?”, but that fell by the wayside…clearly. Keep smiling Tulipa, it really is the best way to say, “I am much happier without your sorry ass.” 🙂
Oh, thank you I just had an insight,
Keep smiling, Tulipa, it really is the best way to say, “I’m much happier without your sorry ass”
It is where I fall down I say these words to him when we communicate yes life is great etc. etc. but then when we have finished speaking I end up emailing or texting actually I’m not that happy without you in my life the friendship is not to my liking please improve this and make amends immediately and be the friend I want yes yes life is going very well without you in it.
I go on about his actions not matching his words and ding ding I’m just as bad neither do mine.
I can just see how he would love this his ego been stroked and all he has to do is nothing.
Thanks for your comment.
Tulipa, like I mentioned in another comment, I still have to distract myself from responding to my ex. I have no desire to reach out, but if he contacts me, for some reason I have a very hard time just saying nothing – even considering that there is literally nothing left to say.
What I do is put on my sneakers and take a walk around the block (sometimes with dog in tow, if he’s not in the midst of one of his five afternoon naps). Believe it or not, it works! I have a rational talk with myself, i.e. “What do I hope to gain by responding? Will this guy ever understand or care to understand what I’m saying?” The responses to these questions are, “Nothing.” and “No.” If you cut him off completely, I think you’ll find that life REALLY is better without him around. It takes time, but it’s so worth it.
Excellent advice. Break the cycle of reaction by not only switching thinking gears, yet by also doing something physical. Truly, the combination of the two simultaneously can be quite empowering, as it often leads to more fruitful thought processes.
Though, how you can leave the house with the dog asleep is a mystery to me. Mine would hear my shoelaces tying, and be at my feet before I could say “Red Flag!”
Lol wish I had a dog, but conditions don’t allow for one.
Still I joined the gym today.
Thank you again for replying.
@Mango – It IS super helpful! I think in these situations we get so used to responding in a certain way – like a bad habit. That’s too cute about your doggie! When I absolutely have to take mine out with me and he’s not feeling it (he’s an English Bulldog – so sweet, yet so stubborn), the most effective means of mobilizing him is to open and close the refrigerator – then he’s underfoot in under ten seconds!
@Tulipa – Anytime sister! Excellent choice joining a gym – it’s very hard to text a jackass and work it out on the elliptical at the same time 🙂
I love the million dollars visualisation- puts it into great context!!
oh and the ritz one, I likened my EUM to a beaten up old ford escort taxi (loads of fares!) dressed up as a top of the range BMW.
Visualisation really helps me grasp the concepts, and one of the best things that I ever did was imagine him as Gollum in Lord of the rings. He started out ok, but became more and more corrupted by his actions and desires and was really just a slimy, secretive nasty piece of work. Thats his nickname now!!
If you were going to make a huge financial investment like a house, which would affect every part of your life, wouldnt you look at several houses, have a list of what the house must provide and what you would like it to provide, but you could compromise on, and the potential return ?
Shouldnt you do exactly the same on an emotional investment? And…..if you find the house of your dreams…shouldnt you commit to making that house into a home, taking care of its maintenance and being responsible with the morgage etc….whilst the house gives you a safe haven, warmth, shelter and the security of always being there?
If not, buy a prefab…
Yeah… I was definitely living with ‘his values in the relationship in order to keep him.’
I think I ‘ve been doing this for donkey’s years. There was a period at the beginning of my relationships, even during the courtship where I start to shape-shift into what I imagine they might want. Using skills of observation and research I would gradually be the ‘ Ideal’ woman for them. Often dampening down, even hiding my real self. This goes beyond the normal level of ‘good behaviour’ that most people put on at the beginning of a relationship…
What happened next was inevitable. I’d wake up into the relationship with an AC or e EUM, feel at best dissatisfied and at worst distraught,humiliated,angry,shocked that I was being regarded and treated the way I was. Yet, and this is really painful to admit, on some level, my gut… I had known that they were like that anyway. I ‘concealed to appeal’….in order to stay in a relationship with emotionally unavailable individuals because I am emotionally available myself.
When you actually consider that these guys are often made up of smoke and mirrors themselves…then what you have is caricatures of people, having false relationships, like actors on a stage. Full of action and drama,pathos and sex but not based in reality at all. I have truly done my last curtain call in this play of my own making. Great article.
Hell, big type error above… I meant that I was ’emotionally UNavailable myself’ Living and working in hope tho’!
On my journey to a healthier life all around I came across this while reading how Zen looks at realtionships, I thinks its very insightful. “How often we try to grasp and hold onto that which is no longer suitable, or to desperately maneuver to obtain that which may be entirely wrong.”
I watched “The Secret” last night…it tells how an “attitude of gratitude” and focusing on the good can change your life…I think Nat helps people realign their focus and change their views in ways that allow them to bring joy into their lives…awareness then change…I enjoy looking into religious teachings for the universal lessons that have been brought to us to allow us to have peace within and without…just thought I’d mention another possible source of enrichment.
“If you check into a hotel today and complain about the lack of sea view even though you’re bang smack in the middle of a built up area, you’ve either got to accept that the view is the view, or move to a hotel closer to the beach. End of story.”
Absolutely 200% correct, but it is oh so hard to want to throw in the towel when you feel like you have the power to change someone else. But after you feel like you’ve exhausted all of your options and reality sets it, you stop caring so much about not having a relationship with this person and start feeling angry with yourself for refusing to use your brain when dealing with him/her in the first place.
It used to be a cycle for me. I would get involved with someone who did not match me at all, but on paper he did. Then when things didn’t work I would all of a sudden remember all of the red flags I saw from the beginning that I refused to understand, and then I would get angry with myself and promise to never go through it ever again. Wrong! I would only be fooling myself because they were just the same guys in different packages. Didn’t realize it at the time, but I was only treating the symptom not the cause….
The last guy this happened with truly was the last guy. Something about me was different with him. My mentality had been going through a metamorphosis for a while and I honestly believe that when I opted out it was because I had learned my lesson. I felt as though I had toed the line of perfection so well when dealing with him, but it wasn’t good enough. I could have been jumping through a hoop of fire in a handstand and it wouldn’t have mattered. I could be the perfect partner, but that would not change who he was or what he could bring to the table. I had no control over him or how he responded to my actions. Relationships take two people putting in quality effort to function properly, not one person doing all of the work, not one person pulling the puppet strings of the other to get them to act/act differently. Plus, in trying to maintain perfection all the time (which is impossible), my spirit felt as though it was beginning to weaken and I did feel as though I was losing sight of myself. After the agony of defeat subsided(LOL), I turned that anger on myself as I realized that all the tell tale signs were there from jump that he was not the one for me, and had I been in my right mind it would have been over before it started. I wanted him, but he was never going to be able to have the relationship that I wanted to have…
Great post! It all sounds so ridiculous and completely makes sense at the same time. Oh the things we will do to get what we “want”…..
Once again great article Nat!
Natalie’s message over and over again is not only to look at the red flags and walk away from shady and unhealthy relationships, but to look within ourselves and figure out what it is that causes us to knowingly enter into these types of relationships in the first place.
I think that there are many woman on this board who have had nice healthy guys show interest in them, but for whatever reason, they are attracted to the drama of being with a bad boy. If they did/do the work to resolve the issues surrounding why they are attracted to these men, and developed a healthy dose of some kick ass self-esteem, then they could/would meet a great guy.
Question: what if you are NOT the type of woman who is drawn to men who are AC/EUM/FF? And as soon as you find out that you’ve unwittingly entered into a bait and switch type of situation, red sirens go off, and you bounce. However, although you are ready to enter into a healthy relationship filled with love, care, trust, and respect, you find it difficult to meet a good man who is on the same page? The older a woman gets–I’ll be 50 in January–it seems the harder it is to find one because it seems that so many men out there have serious issues and baggage. Message to the younger women on this blog: All the more reason not to waste precious years on men who are not worthy of you.
I’m still putting myself out there, but I am also mentally preparing myself for the possibility that I may never meet the right guy—not because he’s not out there–it’s because our paths may never cross.
I’m learning that I have made having a relationship my priority and this caused me no accept less than’s, EUM’s, AC’s, and downright abusive parters, because keeping that relationship was important to me, no matter the toll it took. This was because I was lonely and I wanted a man in my life to give me purpose and fill in void I had. It goes further….I was getting into situations foremost because they showed interest in me and I needed that validation. It didn’t matter if they were all wrong for me…..if they showed interest and I found them attractive then the game was on. The outside shell of pride and aloofness worked as a cover up to what I was really feeling, which was desperate. Bottom line, I was looking for a man and a relationship to fill the emptiness in my life and to quiet the screaming fear of no one loving me. Although I still want a relationship, I have put it into perspective and want it to compliment and enhance my life, not become my life. So many years I was silently crying out, “love me somebody, please, anybody.” This was like the dinner bell for users and parasites. After learning so much this past year about myself and the things NML has talked about it’s like a whole new world has opened up for me. I feel different. I feel my worth. I am not begging for love and validation. Ever. Again.
I absolutley love this blog! It’s really helping me through some rough times that im still having right now. I have made exactly the same mistake of trying to have a relationship with an EUM who even though I knew he wasn’t right for me, stuck with him anyways for 1.5 years until finally I had enough of his verbal abuse, his coldness and left him which wasnt easy as we lived together. I also had a holiday fling at the end which is something that was never in my nature before. He doesn’t know and I feel so ashamed to this day. Since then I think im finally starting to see the light and take stock of the bad choices i’ve been making with men. Problem is I still feel sad over my breakup. I feel like a failure and im angry at myself for allowing myself to be being stepped on then lowering myself to cheating. I should be having the time of my life but I feel so weary of men now to the point where I don’t even know what I feel anymore. All this values and boundaries are things what I thought I was implementing. Obviously not. Now I just feel lost. Not sure what to do anymore 🙁
Sad,
I hear you, I feel the same way sometimes. Even though I know I am learning so much about boundaries and how to spot men that are not good for me, I feel weary and sometimes don’t know what I feel. I think it is a stage of transition. You know the old way does not work, but you are in the middle of learning a new way…and you slip back sometimes…that is where the confusion comes in I think.
When I feel confused, I try to just let myself feel and it and tell myself that it is natural. Sometimes it works, other times it doesn’t, but I am trying to be okay with all my feelings and everything that I am learning. Learning new things takes time and integrating them into your life takes time. I was married for years and thought I really understood relationships and men…but now at 46 years old, I’m not so sure anymore…I think with the learning comes crisis, where much of what we know is challenged and we feel lost while we integrate new ways of being…I don’t know really…I’m just at the confused stage myself and I’m really trying to sit with it and not be distracted.
I have had a couple of men ask me out, but I’m just not ready and I am gun shy now…and that is ok…I tell myself that I’m “temporarily emotionally unavailable”, while I am learning this new language.
Whew!! This stuff is tough…but worth it….even on the days that we want to slip back into the old pattern.
Yup! I wanted him and not the relationship. If I wanted a healthy relationship I wouldn’t have wanted him. I crossed referenced his attributes on an online test and he was a classic Narcissitic. And so, knowing this all along…if I truly wanted a healthy relationship I would have never poured my heart and soul into having him. Natalie you’re right…as always. Thanks!
I’ve been participating in a big lit conference/festival the past few days. Two nights ago I came home on a high because two of the big famous guy authors invited me to join them and another woman for drinks and we all hung out for three hours. One of these guys has always been rude to me; when his buddy invited me, I was surprised, flattered, and said yes and felt like a big insider for most of the afternoon. Yesterday the same guy totally blanked me as if we’d never hung out, and last night I felt like I took it in the teeth again and again as the festival organizer, these dudes, and their buddies all arranged to have drinks with one another after the event – making plans right in front of me, as if I weren’t even there. A couple of them gave me the brush-off as I tried to connect. It was so rude; this morning I actually cried about it.
“It’s like you meet someone and even if they’re the biggest jackass in the universe or keep telling you that they don’t want what you want or they show you, you keep pinning the tail on them or shouting “You’re it!””
I guess that’s what I’m doing with this crowd of cliquey writers. I’m like: am I not famous enough? That’s not it. I saw less famous people getting taken by the arm and invited to the afterparty. Is it that I’m not pretty enough? That’s my old sore point, but that’s not it either, I don’t think. The thing is a few of these guys have ALWAYS been jackasses to me and I feel that originally I always showed them that I want to be their friend – though I would show annoyance when they would be jackasses.
Sigh. There are a bunch of good folks at the events. I’m just really bummed that the guy running it is making a show of being in an exclusive club, and I still want to be in the club. This is how it felt hanging out with my exAC and his city council buddies; I felt thrilled to be there, despondent at the values I was soaking in.
I feel like I’m attracted to the leaders, the people running things, the in-crowd, but I just want the in-crowd to be nice, for once. Isn’t there such a thing? Why does being a nice person always mean being on the outside, on the periphery, excluded?
I know this emotional tangle led me to stick with the AC a long time so I need to figure it out.
“I always saw relationships in terms of what I wanted from this (particular) relationship with this…
“I always saw relationships in terms of what I wanted from this (particular) relationship with this (particular) man, so that my desire for a relationship was always about a specific man to me and never about relationships in general or about men in general.”
This is me and professional relationships right now. I need to figure out who I am in all of this and what I want from my career in general, not “what do I want from these people right now.” In this specific instance I want them all to include me and for us to all be … what? More important than everyone else? Happy?
Well, I would like the inside track on getting awards, book deals, etc. Who wouldn’t? Again – if they’re just about being shallow – am I not famous and connected enough for these people? It’s like, if we’re being shallow here, I thought that I have what it takes to “win” on those counts. If we’re not being shallow, then I do think I’m a decent person with something to offer in conversation and friendship.
Maybe this is a similar feeling to “even an AC doesn’t want me?”
In the meantime, I’m off to an event that actually involves both the cliquey lit crowd and the exACs crowd all at once. I don’t know why this stuff bothers me so much. Shouldn’t I just be able to do my thing and not care if I get invited out? I’ll think more on this later tonight.
Frankly Mag, some people just have very bad manners and hanging out in your company one day and then blanking and excluding you the next is exactly that – rude and hurtful, and these people know they’re doing it – they have no shame! I have experienced similar (and in similar situations – my refusal to let go of the ex EUM was partly, in the beginning, a desire to be in his ‘in crowd’ – am still waiting!! Not). All I can tell you is that I sincerely wish now that I had called these people (or person) out on their rudeness OR completely blanked them the next time they came my way (which I did with one or two of them but not with the one that really counted!)
I don’t know the culture of this type of work. But I can just imagine all their self-important chatter. I’m not sure what kind of writers they are. I used to want to be a writer but wanted follow in the footsteps of those discussing social justice. Of course, I’m sure those types of authors can be self-important too. But at least they’re inclusive. Ha.
I would definitely be hurt if this happened to me, of course. But I hope I would be strong enough to know they are jerks. And I’m not sure if this is possible in your situation (professionalism and all that), but I have been known to say something to people when I thought they were–shall we say–stuck up. I remember when this group would exclude me, I felt, because of my race. I called up the manager and–politely I might add–had my say. I went back one more time just to show that I could stand up for myself and not be embarrassed. But I left the group because they were idiots.
Thanks Fearless, and Jupiter. The conference is over, I’m back at home on my own in my apartment and feeling like I need three days to be by myself and recover. My self-esteem is around here somewhere, like a precious marble I dropped rushing from handshake to handshake, air kiss to air kiss. I need to go looking for it again.
Yesterday I saw a woman that I gave a ride to the night before, after she and a mutual friend of mine and I had all attended an evening event. I greeted her warmly, and she was lukewarm and hung back when I waited for her as the line we were in moved. Then when she came into the auditorium I waved and she “didn’t see me” and then she sat right behind me, and I turned around and asked if she wanted to join me, and she “didn’t see me” again – she looked away. Did she not hear me? Is she blanking me, too? Am I totally paranoid?
I’m sensitive because when I saw her and my friend the night earlier, the first thing I did was complain about these dudes, and particularly about the pretty actress (who is not a writer, but seems she knows all the men writers) who was moving comfortably into conversation with all the same guys who freeze me out. Then today I think, wow, now does *this* woman think I’m a total gossipy bitch? A paranoid, self-centred bitch?
I did apologize to her that night, saying that these environments (lit festivals, where everyone is hustling) bring out a bad side of me.
This morning I know I can’t base my self-worth on this friend of a friend’s opinion any more than I can the actions of the rest of the festival crowd. But then I think of a pair of acquaintances I did go out with last night, and am second-guessing whether I didn’t behave like an ass myself (they asked about my current book project, and I told them ALL about it, and then felt like I had taken up way too much time and space in the conversation, because they excused themselves shortly thereafter).
All this awkwardness I used to pin on racial difference – it certainly feels like the “beautiful people” don’t recognize me as one of them – but now I think I just want to breathe, get a bit of distance and look back at what this whole experience did to/for me. There are so many resonances with my feelings and behaviour re the AC that I’m sure I’ll learn something.
@Magnolia: Is it really just the people who hang out with the “in crowd” who get the book deals? All of them? Or are there other ways?
I’m sure you know many people who got book deals. Did they all do what you’re currently trying to do? Aren’t there other roads, such as picking a “hot” topic, specializing on a particular field or whatever?
Although I work in a creative field as well, I’m not familiar with the book business. However, I can see how unhealthy this “in crowd” is for you.
What do you really want? Awards? Or a happy life, work you enjoy, and enough money to sustain yourself? Don’t you think there might be better ways to get it?
magnolia
Idon’t think it matters what they think. not everyone is going to like you. even mother theresa has her detractors.
here’s a story for you – I arrived at work one day after a terrible commute, crawled under my desk to turn on my computer, and as I came up I banged my head. just as I emerged, with a look of total rage on my face, I caught the eye of my supervisor. she looked completely shocked and turned away. She must have thought I HATED her. Then I felt too shy/annoyed to explain, so we weren’t on good terms for a while!
sometimes it’s just not about you – they are having a bad day, you look like someone you used to bully them. or they’re intimidated (yes, seems unlikely but i’ve been told the same). Or maybe they do dislike you – so what?
Anyway, to bring this back on topic. We focus on getting a relationship from an unlikely source because – we feel like a failure if we can’t force someone to like us. Let it go. Some of us (like me) will never be part of the “in” crowd. No loss.
Magnolia–
Based on the facts you provided, I think that this woman heard you say negative things about people and:
1. may fear that you may do the same (talk negative) as to her; or:
2. she wants to leave open the option of talking negative ABOUT YOU to the very same powerful, “in”, “beautiful”, whatever people you talked negative about–despite the fact that you were telling the truth, the facts–to get herself ahead with/using the same people, if she ver needs them to get ahead in her own life; or:
3. she already talks shite about you with those people behind your back.
And, yes, people like this usually do lack integrity. And they know how to backstab and use to get ahead, usually b/c they were raised this way, or they at least saw this as an easy means to whatever end(s) they want to realize.
Most people on this earth are shite. Sorry to be so blunt. Hard to get ahead being a decent person.
BOttom line is how you relate to your nearest and dearest, and to God. You don’t want to be screwing people over to be forced to beg for mercy in His presence when your day come; do you?
Sorry to be preach-y. But we only live once. I’ll be damned (literally) of the Shite of the Earth steals my wind and spirit.
Oh, and Magnolia, no offense, but you yourself (I’d bet) are s “school snob” or other sort of snob on the intellectual level with those less educated than you. HOw do I know this? I kinda sorta maybe usued to be a little bit like this myself. And this element in you yourself is definitelty a part of why you can’t be yourself, and your best self, right now.
Magnolia–
How did you react with my spelling of “offence” in my earlier comment.
Think about it.
Thanks Elly and Grace. Everything you both say makes sense. I guess I would like a Baggage Reclaim for social groups! I feel quite similar to when I was dating the AC; knowing it didn’t feel good, knowing something was off, but not knowing how much is me and how much is them. Coming to BR helped me see that my own observations of my situation were more reliable than I was giving myself credit for.
So the community of writers doing what I do in my country is pretty small. It’s like one big extended dysfunctional family. Unless I want to absolutely switch careers, I have to stay in the family, ugh. Or get known in the US or UK, which is the way a lot of Canadians get their own fellow Canadians to finally take them seriously.
The new research on bullying is not hopeful. They used to think it was about low-self esteem on the bully’s part. (If you remember, I always thought that the AC’s meanness must have meant low-self-esteem, which could be ‘cured’ if he felt my true love). Now they know that a lot of bullies think very highly of themselves and often rise to positions of power where they continue to mock, belittle and exclude people. So the research finally confirms what I always suspected: they think they are better than me, and they like excluding me and mocking me, and they’ve gained control of a lot of the publishing mechanisms in this country. I’m finished being nice to them because I think that they secretly believe no one likes them.
Used and grace, both your comments point to my being too worried about other people, and potentially seeing offense (offence?) where none was intended. Used, was I supposed to see something in the spelling? I thought both are acceptable. If you’re suggesting that I have reacted to your spelling, I hadn’t, so I’m not quite sure what you’re getting at.
I have been a ‘snob’ of sorts, as I think I got called on a few months back, when I enthused about how smart the exAC was/is. I know it was a big mistake to assume that people’s intellect corresponded to their emotional intelligence.
We’re all here learning how to be ‘snobs’ about the right things, aren’t we? I hope I’m becoming an anti-AC snob. There are some people that we ought not to let into our circle: now I understand that I want to be more picky about people’s unkindness or competitiveness, and keep that energy at a distance, rather than thinking that education or achievement correlated to quality. I just spoke to another female writer of colour who said she felt terrible at this conference because of where she felt placed on a hierarchy of popularity. And I know she has dealt with the bigshots coming onto her in racist ways and getting pissy when she doesn’t respond, then cutting her out of the social scene. She is also not a big ego type, but at the same time is often quite negative about the way she gets treated. But she isn’t treated great. So I’m not the only one.
But I want out of the cycle of negativity. How to exist in this environment without becoming negative, and becoming the very gossip and shunner that is so hurtful? Do you just get to the point of being “okay” with being treated like you’re B-list by the A-listers?
I guess I have always harboured a young person’s fantasy about a group of writers at the top of the food chain who would be the ones who wrote about social justice and won Nobel prizes and dedicated parts of their lives to activism, who would eventually welcome me when I had earned my way in. Now I see that there’s no circle, and at top of the food chain there are all kinds: activist writers who are jerks, Nobel nominees who are chauvinist, and puff writers who are lovely people.
Having felt marginalized and forced into being the unpopular kid so many times, it’s not a position I want to just lie down and accept as an adult.
magnolia
I don’t mean to suggest that you’re imagining it. There is a good chance that this person IS judgemental, racist and cliquey (like wotsherface in “The Help”). She won’t be the first person like that you’ve met and she won’t be the last. What I meant to say is – she has no power over you (thankfully). Don’t let her cause you grief. If people want to be twerps, let them. It’s got nothing to do with us.
Okay, if everyone you meet is treating you badly, then it may be worth taking remedial action- but let’s not allow the odd one to make us doubt ourselves.
When I was (very) young, I used to imagine that my life would be full of glamour, travel, men, parties, fabulous people. But as it is, my friends are lowkey – teachers, secretaries, not that beautiful (to look at). Popularity, like celebrity or fame, is an illusion. We imagine that other people have fantastic lives that we aspire to but, like you said, it’s not that shiny close up. Anyway, this is drifting off topic but, in one way, it’s in the spirit of the blog – stick to your guns, it doesn’t matter what other people think. Especially if those people aren’t even that special! I may take on board what a kindly, wise person says to me, but I won’t tie myself in knots over someone who looks down on me cos I’m chinese/not as smart as them/not as wealthy/popular/successful etc!
“I have never seen relationships with men in terms of what I wanted from a (any) relationship with a (any) man. I always saw relationships in terms of what I wanted from this (particular) relationship with this (particular) man”
I don’t believe in focusing on the type of relationship we want, with ANY man who would meet the criteria. Relationships aren’t a goal, relationships just happen, we feel happy with somebody and that’s why we are together, not because they ticked all the points in our list.
Focusing on a “committed relationship” it’s like keeping a goal in mind (the “proper” relationship) and finding people to fill in, who serve to our purpose.
I believe in meeting people (not EUMs) and having relationships without a specified purpose, just enjoying their company, laughing together, going out, talking all night long about silly things, going on holiday together , etc and , if things progress, maybe settle down, marrying, etc. All these things can happen with a normal guy, not an EUM, not an AC and they happen without prior planning.
I wouldn’t like to meet a guy now who has a list in mind with the things that our relationship must contain. It’s like he wouldn’t care about my feelings, thoughts, personality, but, if I fit in his “relationship must have” list, I am “the one”, if not, he will organize a job fair and find a girl who does.
Aren’t relationships meant to teach us about ourselves? Then what is the lesson after 5 years of a relationship with a man who fits the relationship requirement list? That our list was perfect?
I know I used to be an EUW and I still have some fears about committed relationships. In the past I didn’t truly want a proper and “normal” relationship because, in the end, this would go to marriage and children. I spent my 20s thinking that there must be something more about this life that being a wife and a mother.
EUMs were great partners in my past because they wouldn’t commit, so I was safe. During the relationships I always acted as I wanted more from them, I blamed them for the lack of commitment. Deep inside, I knew I didn’t want any of them as my husbands.
I don’t see things now like I did before, I don’t try to find the “bad” excitement brought by the insecurities of a relationship with an EUM. I think that there can be a “good” excitement with an available man.
Mirelle,
We tend, I think, to get into more trouble with relationships when we DO have a list of criteria that we want a man to fit (Nat has posts and comments on this very ‘danger’).
Here’s the boxes that Nat has said (and many agree) makes for a healthy relationship: 1) trust 2) care 3) respect.
The point I think is that if a man – a particular man you want to be with (for the short or long term) – cannot offer you trust, care or respect then you are going to be quite miserable in that relationship. EUMs / A/Cs /MMs are very unlikely to be able to bring all of those to the table. if you “met a guy with this list in mind” then he WOULD in fact care about your feelings; conversely if he does not have “this list in mind” then you can be sure that he won’t give a fig for your feelings. so it’s not so much “a list” as a set of values and I would love to meet a guy whose values within a relationship included trust, care and respect. I met the ex EUM (and other men in the past) in exactly the manner you describe and was miserable.
you say Mirelle: “I don’t try to find the “bad” excitement brought by the insecurities of a relationship with an EUM. I think that there can be a “good” excitement with an available man.”
Yes, of course there can be good excitement with an available man (I have had that before) but it may not be “good excitement” for the emotionally available man if he’s getting it from an emotionally unavailable woman??
“I met the ex EUM (and other men in the past) in exactly the manner you describe and was miserable.”
The way I decribed it is this: “I believe in meeting people (not EUMs) and having relationships without a specified purpose, just enjoying their company, laughing together, going out, talking all night long about silly things, going on holiday together , etc and , if things progress, maybe settle down, marrying, etc. All these things can happen with a normal guy, not an EUM, not an AC and they happen without prior planning.”
I don’t think you were miserable because you met a guy who made you laugh, because you had long talks or had no prior planning on how your relationship should look like.
You were unhappy because although you saw that he’s EUM and unwillingly to give you what you want, you stayed. They don’t owe us the relationship some of us dream of. It’s our business to find it if this is our priority.
I met guys who wanted “serious relationships”, marriage and children and who couldn’t believe I was not interested in their offer. It was not my business that they had some plans for THEIR life. They weren’t MY plans or OUR plans.
I think a committed relationship is a CONSEQUENCE, not a PRIORITY, not a GOAL. We commit to somebody because we love them/want them/are happy with them and when things progress in the right direction.
I was unhappy too with my ex but not because we hadn’t established clear “list of requirements” for our relationship, but because I stayed more than I should have in a relationship that had nothing more to offer.
You can never know from the beginning what’s on a man’s list (if he’s got one). When I said I did not want to meet a guy with a list I was not speaking about a guy with care, trust, respect on the list. I say that I wouldn’t like to meet one who has some clear established goals for a relationship, who has a profile I must fit.
I would like to meet an available men who wants ME, who wants to be with ME because he is happy with ME and because he loves ME.(and vice-versa)
Mirelle
“I believe in meeting people (not EUMs) and having relationships without a specified purpose, just enjoying their company, laughing together, going out, talking all night long about silly things, going on holiday together , etc and , if things progress, maybe settle down, marrying, etc. All these things can happen with a normal guy, not an EUM, not an AC and they happen without prior planning.”
Mirelle – that was exactly how I conducted my love life. I’m now 46 and haven’t had a dated in over five years. But I had a brush with a MM last year. Before that I was seeing a playa, before that I was in a relationship with an abusive man. Before that, I married and divorced someone who blew hot and cold . I did not have a plan. I just bumped into guys, enjoyed a lot of flirting, laughter and chemistry, and then watched it all turn to shite.
Although we shouldn’t try to hammer every round peg into a square hole, I think it’s important to have a plan. A long, long time ago when we were still little girls, my sister said she wanted to get married and have a daughter. Now, years later she is married with three daughters. To want to get married and maybe have children is perfectly normal. To live your life according to that goal (no married men, no EUMs, trust, respect, optimism) is, I think, perfectly fine. Even though it’s not “cool”.
And lots and lots of men have that goal too. I used to be surprised by how frankly men talk about it, now I just accept it. There are a gazillion men out there who want proper relationships. Somehow we manage to avoid them and head straight for the clowns. Funny that.
Grace,
You mentioned your relationships (with the playa, the hot and cold husband etc ) as an example of life failure and gave the example of your sister who has a husband and daughters as an example of success. I think that the lack of marriage in someone’s life is not a failure, is an option.
I don’t think that you wasted your time with all those men. I think you lived as a free human being and did what made you happy and learned your lesson. The only time we DO WASTE with this men is from the moment we realize we should END the relationship (and we don’t, wasting time trying to change/ fix/ heal them or trying to make them give us the relationship we want).
I totally agree that we have to start the relationship with self-esteem, trust, respect, optimism. I will certainly focus on myself and my self esteem in my next relationship because I want to know when to end things at the right time, if necessary.
Yes, it is normal (maybe “cool”-I do know a lot of cool mothers) to marry and have children, but not because these are your personal goals. I think it’s normal to want to marry because your relationship is great ( as a consequence, because it’s the evolution course of things) and you both decide this, while you are in a relationship, after some time together, not something you established as personal objective before having that relationship. I think that is weird to be single wishing someone to accomplish your solitary plan of being a wife and having children.
I don’t believe that having children is a must. Having children is, in my opinion, for the lucky people who have happy relationships. It’s sad that thousands of children are born every year around the world, from unhappily married parents, who won’t be able to offer the children a proper education or care.
Marriage does not ensure a life of EUMs-free; a lot of EUMs or ACs are husbands. Not every man who wants a wife is honest or decent. He can have lots of interests from a wife (from cleaning, cooking, sharing bills/rent to social status, etc.)
When I heard single men saying that they want to get married and I asked “why?” I heard a lot of hilarious reasons ( my mother keeps saying that/ all my friends are married and I’m the only bachelor in the group/ I feel lonely etc). And the saddest part is not the…
Mirelle:
“I don’t think you were miserable because you met a guy who made you laugh, because you had long talks or had no prior planning on how your relationship should look like.
You were unhappy because although you saw that he’s EUM and unwillingly to give you what you want, you stayed.”
Mirelle, I do not see these two statements you make (above) as unconnected. I had no prior planning about what a (healthy) relationship should look like therefore I stayed in an unhealthy one. With some prior planning (or considered thought) about what my relationships should look like I may not have gotten involved with a blatant EUM nor would I have stayed so long as I did. I only got out when I started to seriously think about “what” I wanted and, more crucially, what I should be able to expect from a relationship, so a little planning would have done me no harm at all
mirelle,
I don’t think that grace was saying not being married is a failure; I’m pretty sure she was just saying to not pretend to not want marriage if you really do.
Also, most of the time when we are involved with an EUM we realize in weeks, if not hours, that the relationship should never even BEGIN-let alone have a chance to end.
If being married is someone’s goal, then they shouldn’t be involved with someone who doesn’t want to be married. Period. It’s okay to not get involved with someone–even if you really like them–if they don’t share the same life goals. We don’t have to be fancy-free with our hearts.
Jupiter
Thanks for clarifying – I was starting to lose the train of my own thoughts! That’s because I’m very confused about it myself. I lived with someone years ago who DID treat me with love, care and respect. I thought (and still do actually) that I didn’t want to get married, that I’m not the “marrying kind”. But when he said he didn’t believe in marriage I remember thinking “we have no future”. Weird. I certainly don’t want to be dating with no endgame. I don’t want to live with someone without being married. When my friends get married, I’m very excited for them. I cry (in a good way) at weddings. So … Hmm! I actually find it quite scary to follow this train of thought.
As for the previous bad relationships, I’m over it but I mention it to illustrate, and to stick to the topic, if you don’t know what you want you’re likely to end up with … something you don’t want. And I should clarify – I absolutely don’t see singledom as a failure.
BR is helping me to be really honest with myself and I have to admit that I was a complete EUF but did look at what I wanted from a relationship and not the individual man back then. I wanted male attention and sex, fine wine and dining, excitement and adventure. I already had an ex-husband and lovely child. I was so EU, I even had 2 relationships of several months with men who worked in my city and stayed in hotels and went back to from whence they came on weekends. Interestingly, my recent AC was a MM when we met. His wife found out and divorced him but we never became a real couple even when we lived together. We both had the baggage from being players when we met and I don’t think either of us could ever develop the necessary trust. The man had a full on girlfriend when he walked down the aisle to marry his wife and always had one so I didn’t feel responsible for the dissolution of his marriage and it didn’t bother me when he was showering me with extravagance and blowing hot but, when he eventually started really blowing cold, I was older and couldn’t imagine being an OW or that woman who could snap her fingers and have a man at her beck and call for amusement. It has been a really long time since I haven’t had a suitor in my life but reading this post and comments, I have to admit I’m really not sure what kind of relationship I do want at this point in my life and I certainly don’t feel confident about my ability to date so I guess I’m not at all ready. At the end, I tried to go back to where we started but I wasn’t who I used to be (thank goodness!) and I was being treated more like the wife than the mistress – he got a new public girlfriend after I moved out and I kept seeing him, too. So insane! He did break up with her but I guess he really still is the same. I know in my heart and from everything on this site that I’m fortunate I can get my self respect back now and it’s foolish to even think about my AC’s life but it still bothers me that I know he must already be blowing hot with someone new and I’m yesterday’s news after almost 6 years with no attempt at contact on either side since I demanded an apology via text months ago. We don’t have any friends in common and he is not on any social network sites which helps I’m sure.
I don’t want anyone here to think I’m in denial or dishonest about NC if you’ve read any other of my comments! I did speak with the AC/AU briefly the other day for the first time after 2 months of NC because he called/texted repeatedly saying to please call because he needed to ask me something. I waited 2 days but it seemed specific so I did call and it was for the date of a transaction he thought I would know. I didn’t recall (maybe wanting to forget the last year is working!) and that was the extent of the conversation because, thankfully, he was on another call when I finally called back. I now even regret responding to him for that because, however small of an interaction, he got me to call him and try to be helpful and it was so self-centered a reason and probably a foothold for him to not feel as awful about himself as he should, but, of course, doesn’t. He called me as if nothing happened – like I haven’t been NC and he hasn’t just disappeared. I think that’s the first post topic I read here at BR BTW… There is a difference between NC and disappearing. I think I’ll re-read that great post here now!
I also just want to add that I think I looked to men – and eventually this particular man – to give me attention and engage my time and mind to the degree I did was because I wasn’t fulfilled in other areas of my life. I feel so fortunate that I now have respect in a job I love because I think that is what I was lacking and compensating for in seeking attention from men to a great extent. I can’t afford the lifestyle I had with my AC on my own yet but I think I am excited about my life for much better reasons recently. Also, as I said in another comment, I think my increased confidence and demands for respect were directly related to the AC’s escalation of bad behavior. It still doesn’t feel good to think I’m so expendable but does show it for what it is… True incompatibility!
I’ve done this numerous times, trying to make a relationship fit and work with someone that had different ideas about it than myself. And that is what a lot of it was: I had a different idea/perspective about the same relationship. Some of the guys would take the opportunity of me hanging all over them or chasing after them. Others didn’t stick around long. It may have been one way, but by golly I was going to see it a different way and push like hell to make him see it that way too. I got myself used quite a bit because of that. It’s almost embarrassing to know I really chased after a man that didn’t want a full on relationship with me and how I poured my heart out to him. He soaked it up like a rag and I was left depleted and nothing ever came of it like I’d hoped. Talk about pissing against the wind.
Who knows if I’ll ever be with anyone again. Right now several people around me are pregnant and seemingly happily married. I’m like what the heck are they doing that I’m not doing? Not that I’m up for having children but rather a relationship. If I could just go out in the world without this radar of every guy I pass “is he it? is he?”. Life would be so much more pleasant if I was only focused on what I’m doing and not a penis walking by….ooops I mean a man.
@colourorange:
So why not try living that way, for a day? or a week, if you can? Just as an experiment. And then tell us the results!
PS: I’ve discovered that I have accidentally stopped thinking of myself as ‘single’, and started thinking of myself as ‘free’.
I have married friends who get isolated and lonely and need visiting, relatives whose marriages need support, people having birthdays who need last-minute presents … I find I am really enjoying being ‘useful’ in lots of ways that I didn’t expect.
This morning, I was mentally going through my list of things I planned to do, mostly concerning putting people in touch with each other and helping out, I suddenly thought, ‘Yes, this [particular task] is something that a FREE person could do’.
There it was. It just popped out all by itself. I am a FREE person, as opposed to my paired-up friends who can’t just go anywhere and do anything, because they have partners, kids, etc.
I am going to try to keep this mentality as long as I can!
I was 20 before I had my first boyfriend. Before that, I too would look at a lot of guys and wonder if he was the one. I’m curious why I did that. I don’t do that hardly anymore. I still want to have a really good relationship but don’t do this anymore.
I also had a friend who, after she broke up with her one and only serious boyfriend (even to this date, I think), would tell me she would do this as well.
I sat the other day and wrote down all the longer term relationships I had..What an eye opener!Every one of them had issues in thier childhood,anger issues,sex issues…You name it!This last one was the worst I have ever met!Verbal abuse,hot and cold,anger like I have never seen,could not talk emotion and Vindictive to the core!It has been over a month since he walked away with no Goodbye NOTHING..And today I see him for what he is,a Loser,a coward,a spineless man that will end up alone and angry,and you know what I dont care…We choose how we behave..I was thinking if I die tommorrow do I have regrets,Do i have apologies I never gave,and the answer was simple,even tho I was treated like dirt,I forgave them…I will never forget,but I choose not repeat the same insanity…
i am in the same boat. dumped EU two months ago. suddenly, the thrill of that strength i showed to dump him … is waning. and now i am inventing text messages to send from a new phone no. that i got to avoid seeing that he called/that he didn’t call.
i knew throughout it was a bad deal but i had warm times of hope and of apparent need and interest from him.
but right now … i feel what i sometimes told myself: being without him is just as bad sometimes as being with him.
now that i have cut myself off … there is no warm placeholder there … just a cold spot. and i miss that warm placeholder. so many times i was SO wretched over him … yet right now, thinking of how i will never speak to him again … makes me wish mightily that i could “touch” him.
the fact that he is gone seems so odd. it’s like just ’cause you kicked the addiction, doesn’t mean life is going to be peachy. why you picked the addiction in the first place.
but this break up time has its ups and downs. altogether, i am better off but sometimes it just doesn’t feel like it.
Lynne, I don’t think you realise how close part of your comment is to Mr Unavailable…”now that i have cut myself off … there is no warm placeholder there … just a cold spot. and i miss that warm placeholder. so many times i was SO wretched over him … yet right now, thinking of how i will never speak to him again … makes me wish mightily that i could “touch” him. ”
Instead it would be “Now that I’ve been cut off / disappeared / dumped her… there is no warm placeholder there… just a cold spot. And I miss that warm placeholder even though I just like having her there as an option, not as anything beyond a placeholder. So many times I was so ‘wretched’ over her with her wanting more than I wanted to give and all her damn expectations. Yet right now… Thinking of how she might never speak to me again (which makes me then think I’m an asshole)…makes me mightily wish I could ‘touch’ her…even though once I do touch her, I won’t want to be around her anymore or will have to manage down her expectations. Again”
Lynne….I know where you are and how you feel,I think we all do.
I was thinking the other day,how when I was with this Horrible Man,how I used to walk around on eggshells,always fearing when he out rage and then cut me out of his life,and it happened more than once I might add!The other day I found a notebook,and honestly every second day there was something I had written about his actions and coldness,and me saying I think we should go our seperate ways,I of course never gave him these letters,and I should have!You know in your heart love what is acceptable and what is not,thats why you choose to walk away!I know for me I expected him to come back running saying how wrong he was and he loved me soooooo much…Guess what it didnt happen because he just didnt care,couldnt care,and is an empty well.Give yourself some credit for choosing to live without this Guy,Yes the pain hurts,it feels somedays that you are hanging by a thread,But you will survive and get thru this..It helped me alot to think about me and what is it in me to allow these Men to treat me like shit..And it starts with my self esteem..Try working on you for awhile,its refreshing for me…I was going to sleep the other night,and I said I love you Brenda,and it was hard for me to hear that,and I thought how many times did I say I love you to people and it was so easy…but to myself it was difficult…Every night I say I Love you Brenda,it starts there…Hang in there and keep posting and reading all YOU can..
Nat, all of what you said is so dead-on! My ex sends me idiotic texts that he “really misses me” and I want to be like, “Homeboy, in case you haven’t noticed, once you have me…you can’t get rid of me fast enough.” It’s funny, because the last time I took up with him, he was yapping, “there was a gap in my life without you”.
Errrrr, as the signs say in the lovely UK, “MIND THE GAP.”
I think it’s possible that he needs his Natasha fix but is content to only receive it on occasion which is not in line with what you want…it doesn’t make you any less nor him, it’s just a matter of difference and different needs which make you incompatible for the relationship which you want. We often have differing abilities of coping with intimacy and must accept that in each other as hard as that seems…remember, feelings are different than thoughts and thoughts are frequently changing…you are such an intelligent and funny woman…I hope you continue to refine and project the relationship that you wish for out in the universe and I believe that relationship will come forth…believe and you will receive…try it…
Leisha
I DO think less of him for it. If you’re not interested in being with someone properly and youknow they’re trying to get rid of you/move on then you should leave them alone. GO AWAY!
We shouldn’t be fooled by “I miss you”. The men who hurt me the most, said it the most.
When I hear it, it makes my hackles arise.
DISCLAIMER: I’m completely hardened to this behaviour. I have not one jot of sympathy for it whatsoever.
Leisha, thank you very much 🙂 One of my friends keeps leaving her copy of The Secret at my house, I think it’s a hint haha! I think for my ex it’s not a Natasha-specific thing – more that when he’s out of options elsewhere, I’ll do for the time being. You are absolutely right though, it is what it is and there is much better out there for all of us. Hope school is going well!! *Big Hugs*
Natasha, Thanks for the wishes…algebra and me had a falling out with regards to the teaching it online and constant date changes and other irritations that created huge literal headaches for me…I finally said “enough”…I’ll pursue my art and find another way to support myself…I had to find out if I really wanted that path (of nursing) and lo and behold it isn’t really what I need or desire…but I had to find out…it was the end of a circle I started years ago and I am glad to have finally completed it. Was hard and painful but, as with all learning about oneself, very valuable and now I know my path lies elsewhere. I believe we gain from every thing that we do…I don’t know about the book, but the ideas presented seem to come up in many metaphysical areas and teachings…I watched it with subtitles on and sounds off to not allow aural distraction…I find focusing on the positive is where we put our energy to best use. (((hugs)))
@Grace – Your disclaimer made me burst out laughing! I agree – it’s not like I was shy about the fact that I was really hurt by what happened and wanted to move on with my life. A decent guy would heed that and stop popping up like an unwelcome zit!
@Leisha – Math (in any form) and I have never gotten along! Have you ever considered interior design? That’s what I do and I love it. I think it’s a great fit for someone that has artistic talent like yourself 🙂 I couldn’t paint a picture to save my life and that’s where I found my creativity. Thank you again for the positive vibes and good wishes!
I think what led to my going NC was I woke up to the fact that I was just a warm place holder and was “having to live by their values to a large extent in order to ‘keep’ them, which in turn leaves you miserable and out of sync with yourself” When it became just too much to tolerate (far, far later than it should have) and I tried to live by and enforce my values and boundaries in the relationship, he disappeared, of course! Ironically, proving that for him it was about the kind of relationship he wanted to have (one where he has all the control) and not the person! I am so embarrassed by the doormat I became and how anxious and unhappy I made myself trying to keep him around and, yet, it still hurts that he let me go that easily after so much history. Totally irrational! Fortunately, at the same time I decided to go NC and found this site which has been a true source of strength and my sanity saver. BTW, I’m FX on the site because his name begins with “F” and I’m done!
” now i am inventing text messages to send from a new phone no. that i got to avoid seeing that he called/that he didn’t call. ”
lynne,
I thought I was the only one that did that!! I hated that a guy would know my number but seeing that he didn’t call/text made me feel like crap. It was just a constant reminder, the phone, sitting there and no call/text from him coming in.
Hey everyone! I’ve been visiting this website for nearly 2 months now and have been reading tons of NML’s fabulous postings! I just want to say that I love this blog and check the postings daily because it is really that good. This is the first time I’m posting a comment on this blog. That being said…
THIS IS SO ME! After reading so many of NML’s blogs, I came to the rather rude awakening that I’m not as “together” on the love/relationship scene as I thought. I really thought of myself as an intelligent and relationship-savvy young woman. I know I’m both of these things and it made me realize that ANY woman… no matter how smart, attractive, and witty can end up with an EUM or AC. Unfortunate, huh? So to all the women here: you are not clueless, naive or relationship stupid. You’re just women! This post rang so many bells in my ear. I was always focused on the “who” and not the “what”. It didn’t matter how emotionally unavailable, reluctant, commitment-phobic or assholic (a favorite term of mine) the guy was, I was going to forge a “relationship” if it was the last bloody thing I did! I ignored the Amber alerts, avoided the red flags and overall just wanted to tell myself that the “relationship” was a gold nugget instead of a common garden rock. The times that weren’t spent beating myself up over “Why doesn’t he want to be with me in THAT way?” were spent on obsessing over it to my girlfriends. They all saw it for what it really was…. a secretive, rinky dink booty call situation.
I am done with Emotionally Unavailable Men and with my EUM in particular. He’s never going to give me the relationship I want so its time to look for the one I deserve. After 2 months of No Contact I was an idiot trying to be friends with him again for the sake of our mutual friends. Then I find out he has a girlfriend in a different country on the other side of the ocean which is not really a girlfriend at all as far as I’m concerned. I’m finally done with him and it actually feels fantastic.
Just reading this is raising my self-esteem. Thank you! You are steadily getting through to me and I like it. It is showing me very clearly where I had been going wrong. I like the bit about when you find you have to have it on their terms to keep the relationship. In a culture where the media constantly says that compromise is key to relationships, it’s hard to know what kind of compromise is a step too far. I guess in the past there have been things in my ‘best’ relationships that have over stretched me. I should have walked away, but on balance and compared to my useless relationships, I was blind to the problem, so no wonder I was never able to hold down a relationship for any real length of time. This series of short relationships fuelled the secret fear that I was not good enough and difficult to love or even unlovable. It turns out I was actually wise to end these relationships and that them never lasting was a success on my part, even though I felt like a failure at the time. I now consider myself lucky they didn’t last. Also instead of ‘dating as a discovery period’, I had jumped into bed with all of them too fast, got high on the infatuation I felt and not really discovered them or the relationship potential until it was not working or over. I am now starting to get real. I miss sex, so that is a weakness when I meet someone sexy, which rarely happens. But now I can get real and perhaps make an informed decision to have a sex-fling now and then if that suits my needs, without trying to turn those into relationships. And I can also then ultimately look for something entirely more long term from the appropriate sources. Having a sex-fling is at odds with my values… which is where some of my relationship problems have come from (because I have tried to justify having sex with someone by trying to turn it into some semblance of a real relationship). But at least I can make the choice and assess the man’s potential- some maybe great for short term sex relationships and others for long term commitment. With this criteria in mind, I can see more clearly what is motivating me in each situation and make an informed choice. Maybe I don’t really want any sex-flings at all. But at least I can stop kidding myself and make a decision about the man concerned based on the reality of the situation instead of using sex to justify a relationship. Wish me…
Yes, wishing you success, light, love on your journey!
Ha! my ex eum and me have bounched between roles in this one. I used to focus on getting one from him – vice versa. Now he has tried to get something from me. Thank gwod thats over and dun with.
Now, its been about 4 months since I broke up with my ex (whom it did not work out with – he showed a lack of interest either he was commitment phobe, wasnt into me as much he as he thought or incompatible) either way
I got rid. I have moved on now and these answered questions will remain and im ok with that now.
I went this long without any romantic interest then I had a brief encounter with a hottie – which I wasnt planning and got rid of quick time (distraction!), then I met another guy just after whom I start chatting to at an event – didnt even clock on my chemistry radar tbh but we chatted away and had a fun night. Swaped numbers, a few days later he asks me to meet up I say yes. We had a nice date, and this sounds so simple but he asked me out, he planned the date, he called me when I asked. Just these small basic, follow through actions I liked. The last guy I dated just didnt do this!. Now these are BASIC things. So far so nice, the aim is to get to know him more. Any thoughts of more than that I imagine that these thoughts get wrapped in a ball and kicked over a fence, usually works.
Only issue I have, is that he looks a bit like my father. This is wierd. I dont know him personally yet so i have no idea wheather he has any other similarities but the looks and a few other similarities (but really how many people have these similar things?) lots probably. I have found in the past that I have been attracted to men with similarities to my dad (gross but we all are affected!) these were often the negative traits too!
This I wish I wasnt thinking about right now….any thoughts?
Now here’s a funny thing. This weekend’s national newspaper here offered no less that THREE articles that were all variations on this very theme.
It’s funny how support can come from the least-expected quarter! I suddenly feel less like I’m left on the shelf, and more like I’m surfing the cutting edge of a very new wave …
Hi,
My “relationship” with an EU/MM has ended, as I knew it would. He ended it by sending me an e-mail telling me how much he likes me but how, if he were to leave his marriage to be with me, he’d possibly end up blaming me for hurting his kids. He then wrote how he doesn’t deserve to be happy and that he’s not worth the wait. Whatever. Yes, getting involved with him was a big mistake, and while it still hurts (because I liked him a lot and I’m afraid I still do, on some level), I know that he came on way too strong (and my therapist helped me to see that his behavior has been inappropriate), and that he has some mental/emotional issues (he’s being treated for depression and/or bipolar. Besides feeling somewhat hurt and rejected, and besides the difficulty of seeing him at church every week, I know that with time I’ll feel better and get over it. My concern is for the future. I’m afraid that I’ll keep attracting these Mr. Unavailables and that I won’t see it until it’s too late and I’m emotionally invested. I’m tired of getting hurt, and right now, I feel discouraged about meeting “available” men.
I don’t think you should be too worried about meeting men yet (although, easier said than done). You’ll have to work out why you were interested in someone married or it is very likely you will end up in another unsatisfying romantic situation and not heed red flags that would save you much trouble.
Have you considered changing churches, at least for awhile? I’m kind of sickened that even churches are filled with all this intrigue. So much for church filtering out “the bad ones.” Kind of discouraging.
amy
his coming on too strong is not the issue. he shouldn’t have been coming onto you at all. his depression etc is secondary. HE IS MARRIED. You still don’t sem to get it. It sounds like a minor inconvenience to you!
You don’t have to respond to everyone who finds you attractive, you’re not that helpless. If you want to avoid unavailable men – start with avoiding men who are married, living with someone, with a girlfriend, shagging anyone, “seeing” someone etc. At least start with someone who is single!
This is YOUR life – no-one else can live it for you. YOU have to make the decisions, not wait for unsuitable men to find you – or even a suitable man – there’s so much more to life than that.
Amy, yes… sounds like the typical ‘woe is me’ letter – I am willing to sacrifice being with you for the sake of others whose welfare I put before my own – cos I’m such a good guy. Pfft. Not.
I have read Grace’s response and have little more to add – start by avoiding men who you know already are married lying cheaters. Have a look at Nat’s ten commandments on the right-hand side bar here. And ask yourself what it is about you that made you think an involvement with a MM was worth your trouble.
I agree with all of you and I thought I knew myself better than to get involved with a MM. I think it may have to do with the fact that I’m getting divorced and was feeling overly vulnerable…and likely not very desirable or attractive to men. This guy seemed nice (I now know better) and was funny and easy to talk to. And he came on hot and heavy. I’m upset with myself for letting this happen, and I’m upset with the MM for blowing me off the way he did. And boy, did he lay on the excuses and the “woe is me, I’m don’t deserve to be happy” crap. But, what did I expect, I guess. I don’t want to be in a relationship right now but I would in the future. I just don’t want to make the same mistakes again.
I think I’m just now realizing that the hardest part for me is that I did think my relationship was one of those good ones. I felt such pride that I was one of the lucky ones. What I had always craved (and read the romance books from age 11 on to prove it) was this special kind of shared love. I would always say how lucky we were because we had what most people spent their whole life looking for. I knew it wasn’t perfect, but I thought we were both in it whole-heartedly and truly wanted to make the other person happy (oops – there was my first mistake lol). I really thought my dreams had come true and when the bottom fell out after 6 years I wasn’t prepared for it. I really thought he was it and I had no interest in anybody else. I didn’t find anyone else attractive though he had no problem drooling over big boobs while simultaneously putting the woman down somehow. Oh man I was blind wasn’t I? Was it the wishing for so long to feel that way that allowed me to live in that world for so long.. honestly thinking I had it? The love I had been searching for my whole life… that feeling that was promised me by books and TV and movies. I feel duped to be honest. How will I ever feel like opening my heart again and being emotionally available knowing the pain that’s out there? It’s frightening still to think of making myself vulnerable like that.
I’ve already learned so much thanks to BR and therapy. I’ve got the theory down. But I’m feeling disappointed that what I believed my whole life doesn’t really work that way. There’s no guarantee that if you fall in love and have someone fall in love with you that it’ll be happily ever after. And while I would always say I knew that wasn’t true.. I must’ve been lying because it was what I was searching for and the fact that I believed I had finally found it was what allowed me to stay much longer than I should have. At least I’m aware of it now. I can’t watch a movie or read a book without going “Are you kidding me!! That guy’s obviously EU!”. I still enjoy them for the entertainment value, but boy oh boy do I see this stuff with entirely new eyes. I’ve got a whole knew perspective on the way relationships are portrayed in the media. It’s just so wrong! And we wonder how so many of us women ended up in this place.
Hi, I haven’t posted for a while now and I’ve just been reading, reading & reading! Shamefully I have been the OW/best girl-friend and I’m on Day 4 no contact. I feel dreadful. We were together for 2 years then for the past 4 years we’ve faffed around, both have dated other people but nothing serious. The danger was we always came back to each other, familiar I guess. He has now made the decision to be with his girlfriend but wanted us to remain friends. I know that is only said to ease his conscience and in my heart I know that him staying with her is the right thing to do. I just feel so useless.
I’I know its like withdrawal from drugs & cold turkey is the way forward, so so hard. I know I’ve got to do it. I’m filling my time, zumba-ing lots & keeping busy but still thinking about things a lot. I miss my friend.
Any top tips from you lovely ladies would be muchly appreciated xx
Oh Sarah, first thing:
He. Is. Not. Your. Friend.
It sounds like you’re in way too deep to be ‘friends’ – quickly, re-read everything Natalie has ever said on the ‘being friends’ caper!
And then change your phone number and run like hell. You need to make a nice big circle of space around yourself in which you can heal, because I have a funny feeling you’re going to struggle with NC and drag this mess out for a lot longer than you need to.
Be strong – it IS worth it, and it DOES take time, so be patient with yourself, but don’t don’t don’t break NC.
Great! It is exactly what happened. I was involved like this for 8.5 years of my life with Mr cheater, future faker and all this. His actions showed me that he totally didn’t want relationship with me, but he was constanly saying that one day… I believed that I am worth much more and that finally he will see it. I was miserable most of the times. He even told me once “I will do everything to protect my family”. I couldn’t sleep. How is it possible that he wants to protect his family and in the same time going for hollidays with my kids and comming to my mum and nanna for dinners?!!!!! Finally one year ago I discovered love letters and texts from his wife and him to her and I left him going to my friend to another country to cry and recover. however when I came back he started to call me again! the past year was awfull, most of his lies I could esily discover and I asked him why for God sake he calls and visits me? Finally his wife discovered that we went for a short breake and she gave me hell, including obusive e-mails. I had to report this to the police. Guess what…. he did not even responded to me when I sked him to stop her e-mails and phone calls. He gave her my mobile phone!!!! More he gave her mobile he used to contact me with my texts to him and he gave her my e-mails to him! He was furious with me that I dared to tell her that we had long “relationship” and because of me he lost his family. He texted me “I don’t want you or your family, I had fantastic family which I bow away”. He lied to her that he loves her and adores her, all this shit… just for her to get him back. When she discovered this affair he said that “he once met me”. I was broken totaly. I did not expect that someone can put so much dirt on me, just the night before saying how much he loves me. I felt so lonely, lost, disorientated and did not know how will I survive. Almost 2 months passed. I am HAPPY. I cannot imagine what life I would have if this woman still has closed eyes. I would NEVER have him now. What kind of stupidity I was in? I sill feel extremely low the way he dumped me and exposed me. I feel so disgusted with his cawardness. It is still in me. But , hej, I am free. And never ever Mr cheater in my life, that’s the aim.
Love the blog
ColiColi
I’m glad you have escaped this situation and that you are now happy.
But I do have to say I feel the wife was villianized in your post. I don’t necessarily condone her behavior but find it very honest and her right as his wife to be pissed at the person interfering in her marriage.
“How is it possible that he wants to protect his family and in the same time going for hollidays with my kids and comming to my mum and nanna for dinners?!!!!!”
It’s possible because he wanted to have his cake and eat it too and has a serious integrity deficit going on. That being said, I have to agree with Jupiter that you can’t get mad at the wife for wanting to protect her family as well or for communicating with her own husband. Both of my parents had their childhoods pretty much ruined by their fathers’ infidelity and neither of my grandmothers were vindictive women out to make trouble for the mistresses – they just wanted their children to have a happy family. I hope you take all of this as a lesson learned and make a pact with yourself to stay away from liars and cheaters!
I know it is irrational but I’m having a tough time again all of a sudden and wanting so badly for my ex AC to be something different than someone I have to do NC on. Sigh. I just wish I could get him off my mind already and not have days like today when I feel like I literally have a heavy heart.
Go out and go for a walk 🙂 have a coffe or cake or something alike. Just let it drift ….
It always passes this need for contact, and you are always relieved you did nothing when it has passed. The thing I did that worked for me was to write out how the conversation would go and read it over realise urgh and do nothing.
Another brilliant post. This is me, but I had never thought of it that way. I never dated or had experiences with trying on relationships for size. I simply went from one relationship with a specific person to another one, with long gaps in between. I would feel an “overwhelming” attraction to someone and make it my mission to have a relationship with them. EVery last one has been an EUM or assclown (no surprise). The less they wanted to be there, the harder I worked to prove it was right, even if I had the sinking feeling there was nothing right about it. It never occured to me to not invest to the max in every relationship possibility that came along. It never dawned on me that the “attraction” I felt was need, desperation and some really toxic baggage I was working out. Thank you Natalie, and Fearless, for bringing to the fore something we all needed to acknowledge and STOP!
I’m trying to sort out this post in terms of my relationship with the EU. I really believe that I wanted HIM, not just a relationship….and that’s never happened before (no past history of that sort of thing). I was actually in a relationship with a really great guy previously, which makes it all the more shameful that I’ve now put up with as much as I have.
I guess maybe I can think of it this way–even though I felt that we could have a life together, wanted so many of the same things, had the great “connection” and great times, etc, the minute any red flags show up it’s time to back away, regardless of how much potential I see. Tough to do when I had never felt that way before.
I am wondering now how much I can trust who I’m attracted to, although since this hasn’t happened before, I’m wondering whether my EU issues just take another form, or whether it was a bit of a one off….in which case I should definitely keep my eyes open in the future, but maybe I’m not a total EU magnet?
I gave my love and 14 months of commitment to a EUM with no Integrity. I looked that word up – Powerful. He is a Liar and a Cheater. The thing is: I gave everything to him without getting an agreement of commitment or even true status of our relationship. (and I mean true status because I knew he was lying and deceiving me, but because of reasons I kept giving it time).
I rewarded him for his Bad Behavior, and as soon as he had the first chance – He brought another woman into the mix *secretely*. She got a couple dates out of him and now is getting his daily phone calls and future faking, but mainly he is a SEXUAL PREDATOR and oh… I just can’t believe I went along with it for so long.
I’m in No Contact – suffering my pain, and knowing my healing is happening…And that I have learned a valuable lesson which I will Never Repeat. Yes, Shopper and Dreamer – Point On.
What was I thinking? Were was my mind when I thought that someone who would cheat on their wife is good relationship material? I’ll tell you where it was it was out to lunch. He said his first wife broke his heart and he was never the same after that. His hurt turned to anger and hardened his heart. Resulting in a man that had the attitude that he wasn’t ever going to put himself in the position ever again to be hurt by a woman again. I flew into florence nightengale mode and felt sorry for him, set out to prove that I was the one to “heal his heart” from past hurts. Who the hell did I think I was??? Took on a job that was not mine. Why? because I stupidly thought that if I could prove to him that I loved him that he would love me. Good way to build my self esteem (not). So he got married again, but not to a woman he loved, he wasn’t going to get involved with anyone that he loved deeply again because he believed that if this one left (because according to him all women left him eventually) he wouldn’t get hurt like before. So i listened to all his bullshit and felt sorry for him. I was gonna fix him and show him what a “real woman” was like. How stupid was that. I am a damaged person myself. That’s why I got involved in the first place. I was trying to escape from my own problems and from dealing with my own issues. In my deluded mind I thought that finding another man would solve all my problems. That if only I was with a man who understood me, loved me and wanted me, and accepted me for who I was that was the answer to everything and I would be happy finally. If I could get this man to think that I was his savior he wouldn’t treat me the way he treats his wife. Like NML says, that I would be the exception to his rule. Deluded thinking. He would do the same thing to me. He is the way he is and he wouldn’t be any different with me. It’s taken me ages to get out of denial about the reality. He’s not relationship material, he is too messed up. And I am not relationship material either, I too am too messed up obviously or I wouldn’t have even gotten involved with him in the first place. And I wouldn’t have related to the excuses/reasons he made for being a cheat if I wasn’t one myself. I owe my awakening to NML and the women on here who share their stories and knowledge which I have learned so much from, that has helped me…