When you have issues with commitment of any kind, there is this perennial fear that if you make the decision that you’ll get it ‘wrong’ and then it’s like a black mark on your ‘life resume’ or it can’t be undone or managed, and your whole life will go down the tube off the back of it.
Ever been involved with a flip flapping Mr / Miss Unavailable that can’t commit to being with you but won’t commit to leaving you the hell alone? Their behaviour probably drives you crazy and even causes you to question yourself, but it’s important to recognise that the reason why they won’t make and stick to the decision, is that they fear that they may make a mistake and you’ll get snapped up by a better person who will put you in a better relationship, and then they’ll be kicking themselves for not realising your value. If they don’t commit and persist in keeping their foot in your life, messing with your head and essentially keeping you in their back pocket and unavailable for an available relationship with someone else, then they can actually assure themselves that they haven’t made a mistake, because if they had, in their mind you wouldn’t be there. A-ha…
This is a fundamental motivation for avoiding making decisions – it gives the mistaken impression that you have a mistake free life. This of course, is an illusion because not making decisions is actually a mistake in itself plus the effects of decision avoidance are reflected in the results of your life.
And here’s the interesting thing: It is really, frickin’ annoying when someone won’t commit and won’t make and stick to a decision, even if it’s an outcome that we won’t like, but, have you noticed something that’s very wrong with this picture?
Every person who is impacted by someone who sits on the fence, won’t commit, and who basically fannies around, is also sitting on the fence themselves.
It’s the age old thing of us often complaining about things that we’re guilty of – being mad at someone for not making a decision that we could have made ourselves, but choosing not to because we hoped that if we gave them bonus time, that they’d make it easy for us and do what we want. Even when they’ve made half-arsed decisions or even bitten the bullet and put themselves behind a decision, if it’s not the outcome we want, we go back to sitting on the fence in denial and steeped in rejection.
The thing is, handy as it might be, we (and they) cannot sit on the fence in our lives, collecting up people and delaying opportunities to stave off the possibility of a mistake they (and we) can’t handle or ‘failure’.
“Oh sorry. I don’t do mistakes so I know you’d love to know where we stand and be spared from my dipping in and out of your life and your bed for months or even years on end, but that’s just not a decision I can make. What if I become available or decide to change and then you’re not around anymore? What if I have regrets?”
We also cannot sit on the fence in the hope of tipping the other person off the fence or weighing them down with our presence in the hope of getting them to do things on our terms. We definitely cannot expect to have iron clad guarantees, especially because we’re not exactly running around providing them ourselves.
There are very few things you can have an absolute guarantee on – even products tend to come with a limited warranty that expires after a period and is subject to certain conditions. If we could all be guaranteed that whatever decision we make is right, none of us would have to use our brains – we’d just pluck a decision out of our bum and see what unfolds.
Part of being a mature, responsible, accountable grown-up involves making decisions, and yes at times, experiencing mistakes. You’ve got to be brave.
Life is one big learning experience so if you use the insights gained from your journey, then actually, you end up growing out of your so called ‘mistakes’ (which by the way, when it comes to unhealthy relationships are actually blessings in disguise when you get out and a success because you’re not still continuing), because these are what actually pave the way to healthy success.
How the hell else are you supposed to know what is and isn’t working? You also cannot expect to even begin to fulfil your potential and avail of opportunities, if you live in fear of choosing and using your faculties to make decisions.
Many of the things we struggle to make decisions about aren’t black and white, although that being said, they’re often nowhere near as complicated as we make them out to be. When we fear getting it ‘wrong’, we have to recognise that when we make a decision, it’s about deciding about what is ‘right’ for us based on the knowledge we have at that time. What is the point in kicking ourselves for something that we don’t or didn’t know, and being angry for not possessing the knowledge and awareness to not look a gift horse in the mouth or to be a psychic looking into a crystal ball?
Decisions take courage as does admitting when something isn’t working for you and doing something about it – when you sit on the fence, you never truly have a stake in anything and you at best have a half life.
The last thing you want to be doing is looking back on your life wishing that you’d been more brave, said YES, said NO, taken leaps of faith and believed in yourself. And remember: making decisions is like using muscle; the more you use it, the stronger it gets. You don’t ever get to learn how to do anything without actually having a go at doing whatever it is and being prepared to learn from what happens.
Your thoughts?
Find out more about what happens when you don’t make decisions in my books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl and The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship.
Add to favorites
Thank you Natalie 🙂
I could tell the same story 50 times in your comments column! I’m not going to do that – instead I’ll just say thank you for your wisdom and compassion. After spending some serious time on your website, I was able to extricate myself from a deeply-entrenched, fence-sitting extravaganza! Nearly 3 years later, I am in a loving and committed relationship with a wonderful man of absolute integrity and great kindness and gorgeousness. I wish the same for everyone who reads your blog. Don’t be afraid to really look inside yourself! And – Be true to yourself always. x
Kewpie doll, thank you, you give me hope (and cute name!). I have uttered the words, ‘you said you see no future with me..well that future is here!’ (as in, I’m leaving you after too many years to mention, don’t be surprised).
But now in such a limbo. It’s really dragging on and am working so hard to get out of it. I don’t think I’d be in such an emotional limbo if it weren’t for focusing all my time and energy on building a stable career and sorting out my messy life. Then again, I do feel so much better, and I know that being true to yourself is the key. I love those moments of feeling so in tune and I am noticing that people like me and want to be around me, perhaps they always did, but I didn’t believe it or only noticed the (in)attention of one unworthy person. I had a moment when running, a flash of how I felt a year ago when I was fence sitting, totally disconnected from myself and other people, didn’t know my place in the world. I’ve come a long way and it has helped to exercise that decision muscle. But without getting back on my feet materially, I don’t have the foundation for a new relationship. I might cross paths with some wonderful guy and if I did, then day-by-day, would keep checking this site to make sure I’m not expecting him to resolve all my problems or investing too much too soon, maybe I could do it. But definitely not looking or expecting anything until I’m in a better place. It’s been less than a year.
@happy c, thank you so much for your comment! Good on you for getting out of a dead-end situation – “the future is here!” I loved that!
‘emotional limbo’ – I’m guessing you mean that you’re working hard to move on from this experience by becoming very involved in life, in making things good, in investing in your future. This is good! It is exactly what you should be doing ? You can see that already, your confidence has grown, you’re noticing how much better you feel within yourself, and also, how much more connected you feel to others. That’s a very good place to be! I found this statement –
“…how I felt a year ago when I was fence sitting, totally disconnected from myself and other people, didn’t know my place in the world” –
very interesting. I know that feeling very well. I was in a situation almost praying for a particular guy to just get over himself and decide to be with me – for years! (sigh). Back then it was a matter of waiting for him to make the decision to be with me, (groan). I honestly felt that if I gave him enough time, he would make that choice, (shudder). During that time, I got really sick, became depressed, and was in a lot of physical and emotional pain. I became, just as you said, “disconnected from myself and other people, didn’t know my place in the world”. That is a very powerful statement – to be aware that that’s what happened is a huge – well, ‘victory’ would be the word I’d use! It’s a huge leap forward. You’re making an independent life for yourself. That will give you a solid foundation for your emotional and material future. Have hope! And there is no rush. Use this limbo time to decide what YOU want. That is the key to a finding and making a good relationship, career, life. After taking some time and growing up and getting over myself (and being dumped by the guy who eventually decided to be with me!), I made a decision about exactly what I wanted in a relationship. I had very little hope of finding it and resolved to be alone rather than accept anything less than integrity, kindness, loyalty, emotional sensitivity, and strength. A year later I was in a good solid relationship with a guy with all those qualities and much more. Have hope happy c, don’t rush (“there’s no fire”, as Natalie would say), stay strong, take good care, and be very kind to yourself, you’re doing all the right things! All the best to you! KD
Thank you. Beautifully written and shared.
Thank you Tracy, I’m touched by your response 🙂
My deepest apologies happy b!! I believe my brain combined your nick with ‘oc’ below. dear oh dear, I am sorry for missing that one! Take care. 🙂
Kewpie Doll, thank you so much for these lovely comments. I really hold them dear.
The funny thing is, when you say that no longer being disconnected from myself and others is a victory (will remember that!), it struck me that this memory of how I felt didn’t just happen to pop into my mind when I was running as I had thought – I was actually running past the same spot where I’d told a friend that this was how I felt!! I remembered that phone call when I read your response, and I wouldn’t have jogged there if there weren’t a staffie running around my normal stomping ground. Even better, this friend pointed me towards BR, and it makes me think how lucky I am to have fallen in this space of love, care, trust and respect rather than in the arms of another assclown or some other manipulator at a vulnerable time.
Yes sighs, groans and shudders here too. I thought he just took me for granted, that if I chose to back him into a corner, he’d commit to me. Funnily enough, I didn’t put my money where my mouth was. I got sick too, the doctor said I wouldn’t make a full recovery but it appears that I am doing.
Your words are so reinforcing. The record is changing, from feeling like a failure to feeling like a whole, authentic person. Instead of saying ‘what would so and so do’, I say ‘what would I do’, recognising that I haven’t got *everything* wrong and have a lot of successes. I had too little confidence to believe I could make any good decisions.
It brings a lot of comfort to hear there’s no fire. Too much of that fire is wanting to prove to others that I can ‘do’ relationships. Most people think I’ve been single for the last xx years, to them it must be so weird to hear I’m not ready for a relationship. But I say it anyway. Thank you for your thoughtful response and you have made one person a whole lot happier 🙂
Hello happy b! 🙂
Thank you very much. I’m glad my thoughts were of some help to you, know that it was my pleasure to share them with you 🙂
As I said before, you’re doing all the right things and looking after YOU. Take good care, I hope to see you here again sometime 🙂
KD
You take care too KD 🙂
Thank you for this incredible post. I am a 36 year old man that has been future-faking in a long distance relationship w a workaholic woman in Los Angeles. She insisting that I move for the relationship to work but was unwilling to make a commitment and jump in with both feet by explicitly telling me what I needed to hear which was, “I want you to be with me, let’s be together and do this together.” Instead she focused on my faults, nitpicked me for what wasn’t right, and waited for me to make all of the decisions, an experience that was very personally shaming and sapped me of the self-confidence I had when we got together. As a result I waited to hear to words she never said, I never moved, and we both sat on the fence waiting for changes that weren’t going to come until we were both paralyzed to act. I wanted a commitment and balance, she wanted me to handle the hard stuff so she could focus on her career and basically be unavailable. We love each other but we basically scared the shit out of one another with our problems and now there’s nothing to do but break contact completely and rebuild. Like Rumi said, ” you have to ask for what you really want.” I don’t know if either of us ever did. . .
Hello oc
I have to say that most women expect men to declare their love before we do. It’s the male/ female dynamic. I expect it and am going through this right now. I’ve been seeing a man, much older than you and older than me, for 6 months and he won’t use any love language with me. Won’t say I love you, or any other language that expresses how he feels about me. It is difficult and he says, well you don’t say it. No, I don’t and I won’t, becasue as women, most of us give more emotionlly than men, I said most, not all and we get really hurt when men decide they don’t love us. I won’t invest my emotions if I don’t hear those words. I have broken up with him yesterday bascially for this. We broke up 3 weeks ago and he called me and wanted to try again, but when I said what will be different, he says, we’ll see. So, I start asking more questions about the future, like living together and he asked me if I like him enough to move in with him now. I’m thinking, if he stepped up to the plate, I would. He said he does not like me enough to live with me now. Then, I asked if he wanted me to look for condos with him, because he is buying. He said it may confuse him if I influence with my tastes. I say this isn’t a man who has me in his future plans. When I ask about marriage, with the right person says he (kinda like I’m not that) Yet, we had a nice weekend and he was supportive with my family of origin problems that came up and I felt myself getting closer to him. Then I get these answers. If I want to get any feedback about how he feels about me, I need to pull it out of him. It feels like I’m a beggar. So, yes, oc, women expect men to step up tpo the plate and declare their intentions. That would be you oc. That’s my take on it after being dicked around with too many guys and perhaps with one now. And yes, I am still sitting on the fence wondering if I should call him becasue I reacted again and he keeps saying I;m in a rush and he’s only known me 6 months, at his age, I think he should know by now. Even at your age oc, I would expect you to know if you love someone. Correct me if I’m wrong. Good luck to you.
oc
What i wrote already you may not feel applies to you, but in a way it does. Your girlfriend whats you to lead. You are not doing that. Be a man, lead. You do need to impress her, especailly if she is so self sufficient. Don’t be a wimp and claim your woman. I too nitpick at men and have in the past at boyfriends that I feel have lost their true masculinity. It’s sad and doesn’t help strong women be feminine which is what we want. I think your lady wants that. I say, be a man and take control. Make it happen if it’s what you want. Otherwise, you will attract this again and again. DO it, you can do it! And eventaully you will need to for your own self esteem.
It’s so much easier to use stereotyped notions as an excuse for inaction or blame, than to actually put yourself out there and take the risks needed to grow a relationship. This whole “be a man,” “be a woman” bit needs to be outgrown. How about being mature adults, get off the gendered fence, and make the sometimes hard choices we need to make to build successful, conscious relationships.
oc, chloe
This is fear of making a mistake – both the man and the woman are afraid and are waiting for the other to make a move. Mind you, I’m suspecting that a good move may be to just finish the thing! I don’t think saying the man should do this and the woman should do that is helpful. That’s retreating to stereotype rather than genuinely putting ourselves on the line. I personally don’t want to be impressed or claimed. I won’t go so far as to say that women should start buying men engagement rings and proposing but – I’m sure most men who propose are pretty sure of what the answer will be! It’s two-way and both of have to be brave and both have to put their feet in. And, do bear in mind, if a person isn’t committing maybe they – just don’t want to. I’m sure their reasons are myriad and complex but I didn’t break them and I can’t fix it. Not my problem. And if he or she won’t say they love you – maybe they just don’t.
I disclose that I’ve been single for a very long time so take this with a pinch of salt – I do believe that some time spent alone addressing our fears and hopes is the way forward. Trying to work them out IN a relationship gets messy. And backtracking to a previous relationship to work them out there is next to hopeless.
None of us will ever be 100% perfectly ready for commitment and relationship, but there’s a sweet spot where we can say “If this doesn’t work out – it’s okay.” I don’t have to stick like glue to it. And it’s that freedom which will set us free to have what we desire.
I’ve observed a great deal of what looks to me like a variant of bait-and-switch: the man lets the woman feel that he is hers for the taking but makes no move or declaration. This is just so he does not own things later. When the woman comes on though, he goes along on a limited capacity, or changes the game altogether: I did not do anything, she did. This behaviour is pretty manipulative.
hey all and oc-
ok, so – yes, oc, i believe rumi’s words, and it sounds like neither of you asked for what you really wanted. and yes, it sounds like you both fell into gender stereotypes – her nagging and sniping, and you losing faith and feeling diminished and then pulling back. as others have admitted, i’ve been through this myself, and its awful. really trying to never do that again.
one thing i notice – perhaps neither of you really asked for what you really wanted because *neither of you felt you were going to get it even if you asked*. you knew she was EU – if you granted her wish and moved, it was like given her permission to be even more EU – and why would you want to do that, when it would pretty much guarantee that she’d never step up for you like you wanted her to? similarly, if she wants you to move and take on the “man” role, she had other tactics, nicer tactics (catch more flies with honey…) that she could have employed, but she didn’t – because then she might have to become non-EU for the person who moved for her and took on responsibility for her – which is a responsibility SHE doesn’t want.
so you were stalemated. that’s the thing, and i think is inherent in any long-distance situation – you’re on the fence from the beginning. the situation is by definition in limbo – its an EU paradise. and you both have stuff to work on that the other can’t solve. in a way, its as if you’ve swapped gender roles, she’s taking on the “male” role and you the “female”.
look, judging from what you said of her, this sounds like she’s not a fit for you. you need someone who can be fully emotionally generous. i think maybe ending it is the answer. but, if you wanted, you could take a chance and tell her, calmly, gently, but clearly, exactly what you need from her. but realize that if you ask for it – you might get it. so make sure you want it first.
I had this happen to me with my exEUM…first he talked about how he would reconfigure his house to accomodate my two children as well as his two children, then he turns around and says being in a committed relationship is “suffocating”. But even though a relationship was ‘suffocating’, he still wanted me at his beck and call, he still wanted me to function as the ‘spouse’ in family situations, he still wanted to be included in my family events. But he wasn’t going to commit to ME. He wanted the option of seeing about that ‘greener grass’. It’s really quite degrading to have someone treat you that way, and I struggled for a while trying to make myself ‘better’ so he would want to commit to me. But I was never going to be good enough for him, and after he dumped me, and I spent some quality time with myself, I realized that NO man will ever treat me in such a wishy washy way again, so when the NEXT guy started compartmentalizing me (only seeing me at his convenience, no phone calls, only major texting), I flushed when I realized he was NEVER going to make a decision about me.
Thanks Grace, yes, I am a bit old fashioned that way, but too many women end up being used if the guy doesn’t step to the plate and declare his intentions, they can go on for years sleeping with you…that’s what BR is all about, getting us out of this. That’s what I’m trying to do with the guy I’ve been with. Problem is they can NOT love you and sleep with you forever if you put out and shut up. I might have been putting out, but I won’t shut up. You want to have sex with no attachments, no giving of self emotionally, then I won;t shut up, and of course then eventually I must leave. Just need to figure out how the heck to spot another and not go there. Anyways, hence my rant to oc……cause i want my guy to be a man. ok, I’m done now. Thanks!
Actually, I feel I should clarify. Baggage Reclaim isn’t about perpetuating gender stereotypes – blaming a man for why a woman does or doesn’t do something in the relationship removes her accountability and responsibility. This isn’t the arena for that.
I don’t know what attacking a man’s masculinity is going to achieve no more than attacking a woman’s femininity – some men argue that if a woman was this or that, she wouldn’t be in these situations in the first place, or that they would be inspired to spontaneously combust into a better man in a better relationship. That’s bullshit. Most of the issues I talk about on BR affect both men and women and all of the issues affect gay and lesbian relationships.
You can pick apart what a man should or shouldn’t be doing, but it would be far more useful to ask why you would adopt a position of staying and complaining? It’s like “OK, you’ve ‘been a man’ and stated your position. Well guess what? I ain’t going quietly and I’m going to squat in this relationship until you either do as I want or I’m forced away.” I’m sorry but that is not what ‘being a woman’ is about.
Well said, Nat. My friends and colleagues often tell me that I’m a pretty decisive person. Even if the decision looks dicey initially, it usually turns out to be the right one. But when it came to my ex, when things weren’t going so well, I asked him to decide. That was me being totally lazy and irresponsible, not to mention incredibly stupid. We stayed doing the mad, not so merry dance for a few more months before I decided I’ve had enough. Now making was a relief. Although he made me feel doubtful about it, to me, I’ve decided. It’s done.This is my life, and I know I need to get a grip of it.
Thank you, Natalie. I feel like I’m facing a big decision right now. I’m still waiting on the offer letter from the university (they’ve indicated that they will make me an offer) – as I mentioned a couple posts back, the position was advertised as an “instructor” but they actually interviewed for a sessional lecturer. The pay, and the status, of these is very different. I’m going to have to make a decision over the next week as to whether I want to pick up and move in order to pursue an 8-month, low-paid contract that nonetheless is very much the kind of work I want to be hired full-time to do. There is no “right” answer, only what’s right for me, and there are big pros and cons to both positions (accepting or turning down the job).
I am afraid of making a mistake, of feeling even more stupid years from now for not leaving academia. I feel stupid for pursuing this work sometimes, like I made a dumb mistake, but when I look back at the actual decisions I made, to pursue my goals, to take a risk, etc, I wouldn’t do it differently. I would have had to know all kinds of things I couldn’t have known in order to choose differently, and who is to say those choices wouldn’t have presented me with challenges that I turned into new opportunities to feel dumb?
I think when we realize that all choices are going to have pros and cons, and that one can encounter misfortunes without taking them as indicators of having chosen “wrongly”, then we can move forward with more and more confidence.
I’ve already decided, actually, that I will be satisfied if I can negotiate them up even slightly from their initial offer. What I haven’t decided is whether to be still happy to go if they don’t budge.
magnolia
I think many of us are afraid of doing the wrong thing so decisions take on a disproportionate magnitude. It’s as if there are two options – one of them is WRONG and one is RIGHT, and we’re trying to figure out which is which. But, as you say, there is no moral dimension to this decision at all, only what we do.
If you have your health, a roof over your head and enough to eat – what’s the worse that can happen?
“I want to pick up and move in order to pursue an 8-month, low-paid contract that nonetheless is very much the kind of work I want to be hired full-time to do.” – For what it’s worth, I’m liking this option.
I spent almost a year on the fence because my boyfriend had me convinced all the problems in the relationship were caused by me. I wanted out, but I wanted him the way he used to be and I wanted to “fix me”.
Now that I know he had already hooked up with his current girlfriend while he was driving me crazy I feel like a fool for sticking around so long. I wonder if all along he was trying to get me to breakup with him first.
Magnolia,
I felt the same way you did right now just a few months ago. I applied for grad school into a career I had before and decided to leave because “it wasn’t what I wanted to do”. Years later, I’ve been working in some many other things, yet still being a journalist on the side and I realized that is where my passion lies. I always thought I had to be confined to a newspaper and live like my ex did in a small town to even get by. Heck, I moved back to my hometown of New York City, applied to grad school, got into the program of my dreams at Columbia and even though I am scared shitless to even think about failure, I start class on Friday and couldn’t be more excited.
If down the road it turns out that I made a “mistake”, I won’t see it as one. Why? Because at the end of the day if was MY decision and as long I I hold myself accountable for it I won’t regret ever doing something I wanted. That that I don’t do is what I will eventually regret.
What I’mn trying to say with all this is that, unless you take the plunge, you will never know what you’re either missing or learning to eventually avoid in the far future. It’s the same with the EUM’s, we didn’t know how good we had it until we got rid of them and realized we deserve so much better than that. Hope this helps! =)
magnolia-
i agree with grace, there is no wrong or right. there is only your life. YOUR life.
go with your gut and your heart, just use your head enough so you don’t starve or go into massive debt.
and…if i may…feeling dumb is yet another choice. you don’t have to feel that way. i know how risky it all is, but you don’t have to be perfect, there’s no one with a scorecard – but you. so be on your own side.
as for pay – can you negotiate for something else if they won’t raise the pay? benefits? vacation? anything?
and congratulations, whatever you do. you’re LIVING!!
Mags, congrats on the upcoming offer!! I worked in human resources for a time and I can tell you in 99.99% of situations there’s room for salary negotiation and you are in a prime position in that (a) they already know they want you and (b) it involves a move, so I’d bet on them expecting you to negotiate higher. I can definitely relate to doing a lot of hand wringing over career decisions and eventually realizing it was all leading to where I wanted to be! I say go for it – you have too much to offer to not be doing what you love to do 🙂
I think when we realize that all choices are going to have pros and cons, and that one can encounter misfortunes without taking them as indicators of having chosen “wrongly”, then we can move forward with more and more CONFIDENCE.
“I’ve already decided, actually, that I will be satisfied if I can negotiate them up even slightly from their initial offer. What I haven’t decided is whether to be still happy to go if they don’t budge.”
If you would be satisfied if a “slight” change was made, why don’t you try letting go of the outcome and see what happens in your mind. Try not to control the outcome; let go of the outcome, and see if it helps.
When I am leaning in one direction in my gut, but fear is holding me back, I call in my FAITH that my higher power will “intrinsically support my highest good; for, I trust that I am always being supported in the highest good of my soul’s journey by God.
I don’t know how spiritual you are, so…if not, simply try to look to your higher self…believe in yourself; look within, go past the fear, move past the resistance, and you may find your answer…step back and try to look at the bigger picture… think of it as a direction, not a destiny, and enjoy the process.
(Note to self: practice what you preach)
Magnolia, the one thing I love about my career is that no job I have ever taken has been wasted time. Unlike some men I’ve dated where I could have done without the experience and was left worse for the wear. I’ve gotten valuable experience from each job I’ve taken even if it wasnt the one I would have forever. I was fired once, it was humiliating but that was the job that led me on the path to a 20 year very satisfying line of work that I’m still doing. Your choices look good to me. It is always easier to get a job when you have one, I help with the hiring process sometimes and we like it when someone works in the exact field we want to hire them for.
I finally made the decision to hop off the fence and cut contact with the man that had strung me along for far too long. I know my part in it, which was staying when I wasn’t happy or comfortable with being an option, being told sweet nothings, just being mislead and led to believe he wanted something more with me.
I’m doing it 100% this time, completely deleted from everything. I know it’s for the best, for my own benefit. I need to get my life back and live in the present.
The hardest part now, is just feeling like I was nothing. That I was used…I hope the feeling will pass, but for now I’m having a hard time dealing with what I had to do. It was the right thing, but also the hard thing.
Any advice to help me keep going? How do I let go of feeling meaningless to him?
Gina,
I don’t think you can avoid that ‘feeling’ of being meaningless, you just need to feel through it, it’s all about you at the end of the day, not about him. You know he can’t give you what you want, so as far I can see, what you truly want from him is meaningless to him even when you are with him, therefore, you are meaningless to him…ouch it hurts as I write it, but it may be the hard cold truth. It is better in the long run to deal with it (the feelings) instead of having him future fake you some more, which I’m sure he will. Good luck.
Gina, I know how you feel. I’ve been grappling with the deep realization that I wasn’t loved by my ex over the two years we were together. He too strung me along, with a demented cycle of gushing over me, ignoring me, putting me down, being tremendously cruel, gushing over me again, crying if I threatened to leave… on and on the mind effery went until I had to go in an rescue myself. That was 10 months ago. I still think about how disillusioned I was, how I had set my expectations so horribly low, and allowed my self-esteem to suffer to the point of needing extensive therapy.
The thing that has saved me is the realization that I wasn’t really involved in a loving relationship, but a fantasy of my own doing. If you look back, you will see incidents that you knew were red flags but you chose to overlook. Every time you did that, you deluded yourself more and more and pushed your own real needs further into the background.
It was not a mutually loving, respectful, supporting relationship. It was a fantasy and you were both playing your parts. He was stringing you along callously and you allowed yourself to go with it because you didn’t think you deserved more.
The other thing that saves me is the thought that, like Nat says, mistakes are part of the journey. We learn from them, we become stronger, and we do right next time.
Another thought that saves me is that any guy who’d string you along to get what he wants is not a good guy. Your essential self kicked him to the curb because, deep down, you knew you deserved better. That strength is where you’ll grow from. Turn this pain you’re feeling into resolve that you won’t ever let another ass clown waste your precious time and energy ever again. You’re stronger than you think.
Have you ever read anything by Shmuley Boteach? He’s a rabbi who writes a lot about dating and relationships. He’s funny, but sensible and while he refers to religion, he’s not ramming it down your throat.
Anyway, one thing he wrote that stuck with me is that if a man won’t commit to a woman, yet he still expects to sleep with her and BEHAVE like he’s in a relationship (in other words, if he’s stringing her along), he’s STEALING from her…stealing her time, her love, her emotions, etc. He puts that towards violating one of the ten commandments, and in his opinion, that makes HIM the wrong person. But then to make women more empowered he suggests getting the hell away from these types of men; after all why would you want to be with someone who steals from you? If they’re that morally empty, they aren’t worth your time.
Hi Gina –
Don’t jump out of the plane without a parachute. You do need to get your life back and live in the present, and there is a whole list of stuff you can do to make sure that you’ve got that parachute. They will depend on your budget, inclinations, personality, etc, but here are some starters:
– a new hairdo/haircut/colour;
– go to makeup counter and get makeover at expert hands – see a new face looking back at you for a change!
– a new routine that involves some kind of exercise, like a daily walk or a new gym or a yoga class or whatever suits you;
– find a website with a name like ‘Get A Life’ or ‘MeetUp’ and join it free, and find out about events and stuff happening in your area that suit your tastes, curiosity, inclinations – anything from handguns to ballroom dancing to coffee/movie groups to book club
– GO TO STUFF and hang out with actual people, male and female, in a group, and get outside your head for a couple of hours.
– don’t try to ‘meet guys’ or ‘start a new relationship’ just yet. Get over this one before rushing into anything.
– Be kind to yourself. Get a pedicure or manicure or new outfit if you can run to it.
This is all short-term, small stuff, but it can really help you take those first steps away from feeling like ‘nothing’ and ‘no one’, and back into finding out who YOU are and what YOU like. Bad relationships strip all that out of us and we just turn into mirror-people with no direction, so you have to start putting yourself back together again.
And unlike Humpty Dumpty, it CAN be done, and furthermore, this time you can leave out bits of yourself that you don’t like and don’t need any more!
gina
he doesn’t get to decide if you are meaningless. he doesn’t have that much power. you give it to him. you also don’t get to decide that he thinks you’re meaningless. that’s your own drama.
I don’t recall your exact situation but what he thinks is probably along the lines of “Gina was good fun/beautiful and we had a laugh but I don’t want to setttle down/commit/be monogamous.” It’s not nice but it’s not the same as GINA IS MEANINGLESS. And if he is heartless enough to think that – it says more about him than you.
Plenty of men and women break up without this level of self-torment. If you’re completely sunk by it, you need to recognise it’s not normal and dig deeper into what is underlying it.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t hurt, or that you shouldn’t grieve or feel a loss. But to say that you are now meaningless is not down to him.
Kelly is right – look at what you actually had. Reality will get you to where you want to be more speedily than denial and self-reproach.He’s just a bloke that you decided was better than he is.
I say this as someone who was laid waste for THREE YEARS over a barely-there relationship that lasted less than a year. Too much.
“The hardest part now, is just feeling like I was nothing. That I was used…I hope the feeling will pass, but for now I’m having a hard time dealing with what I had to do. It was the right thing, but also the hard thing.” Gina I know how you feel, these EU/AC are something else. I’ve reflected back on my former EU/AC again months later and reached the following conclusion-yes he cared but he’s afraid. He was afraid of getting “too close,” other people’s reaction (we used to be coworkers for part of the time we knew each other), afraid of making of a mistake…and instead of telling me these things he let me me hope and dream that he would one day move things forward. Because he liked the company and some of the fringe benefits of a relationship w/out a relationship. I used to play a variation of the phrase above you stated over and over in my head, cause that’s how I felt for the longest time but then I started telling myself he did not intentionally hurt me at least most of the time, because choosing to believe that has helped me to forgive him and move on. I no longer feel bitter aftermath.
He did care for you on some level just not the one you wanted him to. That being said I know that being involved with these types rips your self esteem down, hurts, sorry you had to go through that. We’re smarter and stronger now though. Thank God for Baggage Reclaim.
Take Elthereda’s advice, I cut my hair shortly after going NC (inches too!) and are doing the things she mentioned, it has helped me to reconnect with who I am and recognize that I’m in a new chapter of life. Sending good thoughts your way. Hugs to all BR readers.
gina-
i’ll join the resounding chorus – you weren’t meaningless to him, he was EU/AC and didn’t have much to give, and “gave” (rather, took) what made him feel good to give (take). however, who cares, don’t you deserve more, WAY more? yes! the only answer is yes!
i won’t lie – since i broke up with the EUM, there is still a little ache over his not stepping up for me, having valued me – BUT – this ache used to be a huge gaping wound that i healed myself. and the more time passes, the less i can believe i put up at all with some of the stuff he did.
you need to disqualify him from being a judge of you, a measure of you. he was never qualified for the job in the first place, he failed at it, and he was fired. now let him stay fired. and don’t ever let anyone else apply for that job again. and eliminate the job title.
then, create a new job description – the one who loves, VALUES, gina and thinks she’s truly awesome. not perfect, but absolutely wondeful in her own right. then you apply for that job. make sure you’re qualified, and brush up on your skills. do continuing study to make sure you get really, really, really good at it. and keep doing it.
then, let someone else apply for that job. betcha he won’t be anything like the slime you just went NC on.
Gina, I’d like to second what Grace said. Sometimes we just think the worst, it’s taken me 6-7 months to get over someone I dated for 2 months thats way too long. This is mainly because I felt meaningless, not good enough etc and that I had done something to make him disappear. The thing is he never said to me once that that was how he felt, I just assumed it and allowed it to spiral out of control in my head. I thought I would never get over the AC.
I’ve realised that I put my life on hold for the last few months and I have started to get back on track. I’ve also cut my hair! Very short! And I love it. It doesnt change anything but I feel a lot better and a more updated version of my old self. You will get there but try to quit feeling meaningless because you are not. 🙂
loved that post, cc. So great, thanks.
smooches, ixnay
Everything everyone has said in reply to my post was really helpful, I know I have to change my thought process and not give him any power over me.
I took struggled with thinking that “he must not have cared, he didn’t even fight for me.” But I think I’m starting to understand that he doesn’t have the ability to do that. I had to make the decision to delete him from everything–my phone and facebook. He practically owned my own profile page with his mark all over it. Like he was claiming me without even doing so in real life, what a mindfuck. I thought that when the conversation naturally went to “where this is going” would turn out well this time…it did not. He wants me, him, and another chick in the same bubble. Yet, he doesn’t want to commit because of excuses of “i don’t know where i’ll be in a month.” He just moved back from a terrible job wit his ex and her husband. The WHOLE time he kept badgering me with attention and asked if I was seeing someone else. I thought he wanted to step up to the plate…boy was I wrong…he just wanted me as an option.
I stood up for myself, said my piece, and said NO. Then deleted everything.
Really hard to do, I still feel like maybe I was too mean and it wasn’t warranted. But I couldn’t go on being friends with him, I told him I wasn’t gonna demote myself to that just because he didn’t want to lose me from his life. It just doesn’t work that way…anyway, I hope in time I will heal fully.
Just struggling with the aftermath of “nothingness” and feeling wrong.
ok, let’s see if this helps.
gina – google “mindful awareness”. read about it carefully. be brave, very brave. here’s one:
then, set aside some time and some quiet (start with 5 miniutes, believe me, it will feel like a long time). then sit in the nothing. stay in the nothing. breathe through the nothing. just observe it, don’t judge it. just be there. it will take courage, but you can absolutely do it. do it for a set amount of time every day.
it won’t kill you. i betcha after the first day, it won’t even hurt so much. and this practice will seep helpfully into the rest of your life. when you know you have the guts to calmly be with the nothing, something else will come, there is something past the nothing. something waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than what was there before.
i’m serious, try it. it will scare you, but you can absolutely do it. trust me, its better than running from the nothing or filling it with another low-quality something.
I cut my hair short after the last EUM ex. It does make you feel like a new person.
Now I’m going through feeling like I wasn’t patient enough.
He alluded to “being together” once we were closer (we live 2 hours away) or more settled down because he didn’t know where he would be in a month. He said if we were in a relationship that it wouldn’t make a difference, that things would be the same as in, how often we saw each other, etc. It hurts, that if we were official he wouldn’t make a the effort to see each other more.
But I don’t want to be an option: me, him, and some other girl. We spoke pretty much every day, albeit through text because of distance, and he would leave his mark on my profile on EVERYTHING he put. I guess I got the signals all wrong. Maybe I wasn’t patient enough :/
Ah Gina….it sounds like you’re trying to twist yourself into a pretzel to make things work with him. Why is he so special that you need to be extra patient, sacrifice, and spend all this time analyzing the situation–especially when he is doing shit all on his end? Where is his sympathy, consideration for how you feel and for your needs? It’s not there, and you can’t have a relationship when you’re the only one giving. Of course you want someone to spend time with you. That is reasonable, and he is saying even IF you were in a relationship, he would not make more of an effort. It’s a reflection on him, not you. This is the kind of casual, on-his-terms sort of thing that he wants, and it’s not compatible with what you want. Try thinking of yourself instead of focusing so much on him. What are you needs and wants and how is he meeting or failing to meet them?
I ended it because of everything you said, I was tired of compromising, hoping, waiting, etc. He didn’t even understand why I was so hurt. He said he didn’t want other men to hurt me because they can be jerks, but yet he didn’t even realize what he was doing to me! I know thought that because he let me know up front about being “casual” he didnt do anything wrong. But all the talk and visits in between didn’t feel casual. The final blow was when he told me that he came to visit as a friend. Yet we were definitely not acting platonically. That was the absolute worst. Who drives 2 hours to visit a friend? Hold their hand, kiss them, spend time with them, meet their friends? I dont know what he was doing with this other girl, but I was just stunned that he said that those visits were platonic. After that I deleted him off of fb and his number.
It shouldn’t matter what thinks, but I know I’m my crazy for reacting this way. No WAY could we be “friends” after all this.
I’m not so sure that he’s unaware of what he’s done. He isn’t a complete idiot–obviously ‘playing bf’ with you isn’t platonic. He doesn’t want to admit to any wrongdoing, it’s easier to pretend to be clueless and that if you’re upset, it’s your fault for misunderstanding. It’s a mindf*ck.
I know it’s tough, but be proud of yourself for walking away and try to stay strong. He’s an ass****, and you deserve much better.
I don’t know how to feel better anymore. I’ve read the posts and replies and they seem to help for a little while. But I can’t shut the internal dialogue off. I feel guilty for implementing NC because I don’t even know if he was really wrong here or if he is EU. I know it shouldn’t matter, but I wonder what he’s thinking and if he even cares. I feel so used.
“I hope the feeling will pass, but for now I’m having a hard time dealing with what I had to do.”
Gina, I promise you that the icky feeling of being used DOES pass. I never really believed this could happen for me when I was first NC from a five year long AC debacle, but you really will stop thinking about them and how they treated you. For serious. What really helped me was to focus on all the good things I have in my life – as cheesy as it sounds, it works! Eventually you’ll realize that every day you are Assclown Free is a day when you’re reaping the rewards of having made a tough, but very smart decision. Trust me, you’ll get there!
“What really helped me was to focus on all the good things I have in my life – as cheesy as it sounds, it works!”
I’ve made the decision only lately to open my eyes and be grateful for the good things I DO have in my life, as you endorse, Natasha. And it does work! When I stopped the “woe is me” ruminating and focused on all the positives I have – friends, family, health, lifestyle, music- a lot of my heartache and angst over my EUM started to recede.
And I’ve also noticed, I’m pulling people toward me who are positive and healthy and want to be in my company! Natalie is so spot on with that; when you get behind your decision to love yourself, you exude confidence and personal power and it attracts a completely different type of person.
I like this last bit:”You don’t ever get to learn how to do anything without actually having a go at doing whatever it is and being prepared to learn from what happens.”
Wow. Spot on. I thought my “sitting on the fence” was me just letting him see how “non drama” I could be, because he doesn’t want any more stress in his life right now with kids and financial issues. He stepped back from our relationship, wanting to date others to “see if I’m the right one”, having just gotten a divorce, and never dating in between, but tells me he loves me, doesn’t want to lose me and we are best friends. We still talk all the time and see each other about once a month for a quick bite. We were together for almost 8 months but now have been like this for 5 months…and only had sex once in these last 5 months as friends “in a moment of passion”.
He knows I don’t want to be a Friend with Benefits, so he is respecting that, but reading this…he IS this guy. He isn’t a devious guy or manipulator, but it seems very clear from reading this that I’m his spare tire. His placeholder. Just in case there could possibly be another girl who is better than I am, he doesn’t want to lock in just yet.
We released our exclusivity, but I haven’t dated….maybe I should start. Funny, I thought the “SLOT MACHINE” article was perfect…but this one is even more so. I have more control over this than I thought…and seems like I’m just chicken. I’m accepting crumbs and lowering my value. I can see that, but am just as afraid (like Natalie’s posts say) that once I make this decision to move on, he might “POOF!” turn into Prince Charming, and I would have lost all that I had risked and invested in, missing out on this newly renovated man who is now “healed” of all issues, and is now picking the girl behind me who is next in line…..How our minds F with us, huh?
Goodkarmagirl, Natalie warns repeatedly, to never accept a demotion in the hope of getting a promotion. One never even gets to re-attain the initial position.
What you can do with this chap though, if you are mean enough that is, is to keep him as a harem member yourself, to enjoy his occasional attentions, while dating others and looking for the real deal. But of course this can only work if his attentions pump you up, not if they make you feel devalued like you’re saying they do, in which case there is only one adequate course of action: flush!
I’d suggest refraining from dating and instead, spending some time solo. Extra dating at this time – including having a harem (which is just as ridiculous as a man having a harem) – may confuse things even more. Best wishes.
goodkarmagirl,
It sounds like the light bulb has gone off for you, the key now is to act on it. How does he get to see if you’re “the right one” by dating other people, exactly? It’s not fair to you–essentially wanting to have you around for whatever aspects he wants to parcel out from your relationship while he dates to see if he can find someone ‘better’. And he has no incentive to stop this nonsense as long as you go along with his plan. Stop letting him have his cake and eat it too. Nothing is going to improve for you by continuing along this path. Tell him that you can’t pretend to be his ‘best friend’ while he sees if he can find someone else he likes better, and cut contact with him. If he does change and comes back wanting to give a relationship a shot, then you can consider whether you want that when and if it happens.
Oh, and this post seems right on point, goodkarmagirl:
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/why-youre-better-than-waiting-around-for-someone-to-make-up-their-mind-or-spontaneously-combust-into-being-available/
I love what you said and it is so true. Thanks for sharing. Although we often know what we need to do it is sometimes easier to accept coming from someone else:)
I so agree with you on this because, I have been seeing a man for over a year and a half now. I believe he has messed me around one minute he wants a girlfriend then he doesn’t because he wont have time. I am getting sick and tired of his false promises all talk and no actions vibe, and I have broke it off of seeing him five times but everytime he keeps trying to get me back. I don’t understand why he bothers to come back, if he knows he can’t give me what I need a real established relationship. All I’ve done is be honest so I don’t see why he can’t be. I am the selectee at the end of the day, and if he can’t make a descion that’s his issue but he best know I aint waiting around for him to make a decision, because I am only gonna live once, and I’ll be damned! If anyone let alone him is gonna get in the way of that. I am going to keep dating, as I have wasted my damn time with him for far too long now. There’s only so many chances I am gonna give him.
Reann, sounds like you’ve given him enough chances. Don’t make excuses for him. I think you can try to understand him but will get nowhere. I put up with this behaviour of being picked up and thrown down for years before I saw the cold, hard and liberating truth. That he was being selfish, ego-driven, short-sighted, false, and bottom line, was not at all interested in what his inconsistent behaviour was doing to me, apart from a little show of remorse if I confronted him. He was a fence-sitter extraordinaire and now I think of it, all his nearest and dearest are fence-sitters too, playing along with his flaky status quo. Never thought of it like that before reading this. If you know he is all talk and no action, making false promises (and probably wonderful and ‘sincere’ when blowing hot?) sounds to me like he is similar.
For you also, I’d suggest refraining from dating and instead, spending some time solo after getting rid of this jerk. Extra dating at this time – including having a harem (which is just as ridiculous as a man having a harem) – may confuse things even more. Best wishes.
So spot on time Natalie. I was just about to write about my success story. I thought I had made it through my B-Day and Mother’s Day weekend without getting a single crumb communication from any ex. I was dancing in the street. Not so much today. The exMM sent a clever gift via snail mail replete with $10 worth of stamps of peppers. (I’m growing peppers thanks to Grace’s comment and he must be keeping tabs through mutual friends.) It was a hugely clever gift and made me howl. Once I came back to earth, I got angry. Then, I started the WTF could he be thinking. I ran through all my BR training as to how this is about him not me. So, I immediately dropped everything and signed into BR. Poof, like magic you had the answer. He can’t commit and he can’t commit to leaving me the hell alone. It really did cause me to question myself, again. Maybe he really does love me. Maybe I’ll be Julia. You are so right. He knows I’m done and seeking a committed, healthy, respectful, honest co-piloted relationship, which he can’t offer. He wants to keep me in his back pocket and reassure himself he hasn’t made a mistake while absolving him of his cheating. I’m done being a FBG, an OW, and sitting on the frigging fence. BTW, sitting on a fence is really uncomfortable. I’ve been so guilty of accusing him of not making a decision while I don’t either cos I’m fannying around in my EUW mode. He knows I’ll be howling and think he’s the greatest thing since sliced bread. Thank you Natalie, the ball is in my court. While I’m tempted to go down the path of what is he thinking, you have so brilliantly provided exactly what he is thinking. Probably nothing. Probably just needs an ego stroke. Probably needs to know that I don’t think he’s a lying frigging cheat which he is. I may need to post 50 times to resist responding to him either to tell him how funny he is or what a huge jackass he is. Remember last year when he resorted to snail mail? How does one block snail mail? There’s no return address, thus I can’t do “Return to Sender, Address Unknown”.
Blocking snail mail?
1) Buy a shredder. If you think you’ll try to glue it back together, shred and then put in a bowl of water for a while, and then flush. Literally.
2) Simply find a convenient stormwater drain in your street and post it there.
3) Burn before reading or after reading, as you prefer.
These are all one-way trips for a snail-mail letter.
Yes, FLUSH IT!
Runnergirlno1,
Just do nothing! SILENCE is golden. He doesn’t deserve *any* response (negative or positive) from you. He’s just not that special.
All the best, girl!
Runnergirl, this is a brilliant analysis of the situaion! No need to return the gesture or even appreciate it. However, why not get some ego strokes out of this for yourself, why not take this thing at face value, no more no less, without seeing a reason to get resentful and offended? A “return to sender” would be a reaction, a sort of validation, albeit a negative one. A healthier attitude would be: “This is probably well-meant, but I’m past caring”, a stronger message as well.
runner
Compost it.
Hahah. Imagine a competition where you Mail it to BR and the most outrageous one gets published as “assclown letter of the month” or “Letters from an Assclown” LOL.
Grace, when I read BR quickly this morning, I thought you said Compost “him” because your usual response is “Nuke Him”. That kept me laughing all day! Ahh, I love pronouns! It and/or him, same difference.
I kinda like Compost HIM.
Honey, I totally get you. It’s ok to feel tempted to contact him whether to thank him, or to tell him what an asshole he was/is. But these are just your *thoughts*, you don’t have to *act* according to them. He’s an EU ass. You’re far better without him. I had my ex sociopathic rapist yesterday sending me a note throught the snail mail. You know what I did? Flush. Just think about his last attempt to contact you as a spam message. When you recieve a spam message, you don’t think “oh, they are very kind and attentive, I’ll let them know I appreciate it”. Nope, they just want to sell you their useless junk. Nor you reply to them with anger, telling them they are not allowed to contact you. You just ignore it and put your spam filter ON.
Agreed. Also, a cross-cut shredder is good because it makes it even more difficult for a person to glue papers back together.
I just had a thought – do you have a dog or any other pet? If so, maybe consider putting the letter in the litter box. The letter will be right where it needs to be – in a pile of urine and/or shit. 😐
“The letter will be right where it needs to be – in a pile of urine and/or shit”. Amen to that, and the letter will be exactly where it should be, since it’s probably a load of crap lol.
lmao!
Sweetie…when I was severely depressed back at home and I was broken up with the last asshole, guess what he sent me via snail mail? You know those turkey drawings that kids make with their hands in art cl;ass? The ones you put feathers on the fingers and all? Yeah..THAT! And guess what? I was furious, trembling, crying and just felt outright disrespected. He wrote Happy Thanksgiving on it and I felt like it was a slap in the face. Why? Well for one I was sick as hell and he had the nerve to say that I was just making it up to get his attention and then when I left he never bothered to call, but still got my address to send me a stupid kid’s drawing. That shows you how mature he was. The point is, it will get to you as long as you let it. Heck, it got to me last year when I found out he was dating an ex friend of mine and she resorted to call me psycho and what not. Unfortunately you can’t block snalil mail, but don’t even give him the satisfaction of sending it back. It will make him think you’re still peeved about it all and make him want to try harder. Just burn it and dance around it. Even burn some sage around it and do a cleansing…you’ll see how good it feels in the end. No need to make him feel important, when he truly isn’t and trust me, will never be! =)
Karina, you should have sent him one back with a tracing of just one of your fingers. I think we all know which one I mean.
p.s. I loved “The point is, it will get to you as long as you let it.” – AMEN GIRL!
runner,
beware the charm of the clever reference to your pepper interest, which must feel like someone (male, ‘important,’ clever) is paying attention to your life. see it for what it is. proof that he wants to dangle his attentiveness in front of you, remind you how attentive he could be … when he wants … on his terms … eff him. really.
i’ve likely told this anecdote from my AC story a million times here already, but this move on your AC’s part reminds me of the day I broke up with the ex and for our final ‘talk,’ he showed up with a handcrafted guitar. i felt punched in the gut. it wasn’t just an eff-you look how much i can spend (on you), it was an eff-you that showed me that he knew all along what kind of gift would be special to me, what kind of gift would show me he was paying attention to my likes and dreams.
it’s pretty messed up when someone uses attentiveness as a weapon.
Magnolia, I hear you. That’s what messes things up – these men do such heartless things and treat us like toys, then throw in these equally outrageous acts of kindness and thoughtfulness. Makes them think they’re not the assclowns they really are, and we want to believe the best about them too. We wouldn’t stick around with them for so long and get so torn up if they didn’t show how attentiveness and sensitive they can be. I’m disgusted at the thought that they are capable of being so attentive, but just use it as a weapon. It mystifies me.
(and just talking about assclowns here, not men in general)
aw, runnergirl, magnolia-
what a couple of stunning jerks these guys are. that’s so shitty, when they KNOW what you want but won’t give it to you purely to make you happy, but keep it in reserve in hopes of manipulating you. that’s sick.
runner – stick to your guns!
Magnolia, Happy b, cc, and Karina,
That’s precisely what got to me. It was the charming (red flag), clever reference to my new hobby and the fact that the resolution was from an important person I admired, which he knew from way back. Of course, the important person doesn’t know me from Eve. The anger I felt was due to the awareness that he was dangling the attentive carrot in order to keep me on the fence and as his adoring option/blow up toy, just like the fancy guitar. What did you do with it? He’s known all along and dangles it when it suits him. Pretty messed up.
You are all right it is standard fare in the AC arsenal. It was manipulative. Karina, last year I got a B-Day card via snail mail, not a turkey drawing (dear lord…that would win Tired of Assonova’ s AC letter of the month) and I was angry like you. I hope you burned it with sage and did a dance. This year it felt more like when a cat leaves a dead rat on the porch. Yeah, thanks for that.
What did he send? A gift / a letter? and sent using postage stamps with pictures of peppers on them? Am confused (and curious) Sorry.
Runner just hold on to the top line info:
Him? Married.
You? OW? You’re not that woman anymore, so let him get a sore arse sitting on that fence – all by himself.
Hey ladies, your suggestions as to what to do with the disrespectful little gift have me howling. Thank you so much.There’s just so many good things to do unwanted spam snail mail. I’m thinking I will do all of them, shred, burn, and flush, tho I wish my dog were still alive and I could watch her chew it up and then scoop it up!
I def won’t respond or act on my feelings. Spam filter is ON and I’ve gotten to the point of not caring. I’ve told him all about himself so many times. At some point, it becomes too humiliating to continue being a talking, walking contradiction. Actually for me, being an OW is a black/white decision now because I made a giant mistake, took a giant leap of faith in HIM instead of ME, and I learned the hard way. Is all I got from sitting on that stupid fence and putting my faith in him is a broken heart and one hell of a sore arse. Great visual Fearless. Now it’s just his arse on the fence. The “gift” was a resolution from an important person who I’ve admired. The stamps were of peppers because I’m growing pepper plants, which he must have found out about through a mutual friend.
Topline: He’s married, got caught, gone through counseling, and still sending his ex-mistress silly little gifts. Ewe, just typing that made me bristle. Thank you all. I felt much better today and don’t even have the urge to respond anymore. It’s a DEAD END.
Runner, a belated Happy Birthday and Happy Mother’s Day to you lady! This dude is a perfect example of what Nat calls an assclown “with the tenacity of a cockroach.” I adore the other ladies’ ideas of using it for shredder fodder/composting/house training material! I love these “He sent me blah, blah and blah and I did absolutely nothing.” stories so much – I feel like we should have a counter on the blog called “Assclowns Denied”. 😉
p.s. Is it bad that it makes me giggle to think of this dude getting all bemused when his cleverness elicits from you…jack sh*t?! Because it does.
Thanks Natasha. Last year, Natalie responded to me with the analogy of a cockroach after a nuclear bomb. I think I get it now. If I didn’t have Natalie and BR, I’d still be sitting on that fence waiting for the cockroach.
So today I thought about how to respond, knowing that you all aren’t the BR police and I could respond if I wanted to. It’s like go ahead and eat the entire chocolate cake. Swear to honest god, I could not think of one single thing to say. Trust me, I’m clever, intelligent, and at one point, the sun shined out this guy’s arse. So, giggle everyone. I just cannot for the life of me think of one single thing to say. Not only that, it would take a month of Sundays to figure out how to unblock him and which email address I could respond to without his wife finding out. Yup, his cleverness elicited jack sh*t. But I tried! Just nothing…nothing.
Runner, I recently had a very similar “I have nothing to say to this person. Like literally nothing.” when I got a text from my former AC. I know eeeeeeexactly what you mean. I think this is a natural byproduct of NC, because if someone has nothing to do with our lives, what in the world could we have to say to them? I couldn’t even say “HOW DARE YOU?!” because I don’t even care enough to be mad anymore. Sounds like you’re in the “Dude, I can’t come up with three words to say to you. That’s how much of a non-factor you are.” boat right along with me haha! Not a bad place to be 😉
wow that is so me: i just spent two months out of a five month relationshp trying to convince myself to fall in love with a guy that I was not feeling chemistry with anymore and beating myself up about it thinking that I had EU issues….maybe I do but sitting there blaming myself and not talking about the concerns I had to him was sitting on a very uncomfortable fence….it is so hard at 45 to not feel like something is wrong with you when something does not click but it doesnt merit ignoring the problem. no more fence sitting and not communicating!
This post timing is uncanny for me. Hubby and me are in the process of separation, selling our home, moving, me to a new job, him back home etc. A while ago, I wanted to let hubby the option of coming back. Our marriage has been a very good one (with all the landmarks ..wink) but hubby and me have geographical issues, and after 9 years of living in my country, he is still homesick and want to go back home where I see no future for me. Sometimes love is just not enough. Anyhow, after reading Nat blog for a while, I realized that I needed to move on and put boundaries in my life and not allow myself to wait for him to come back. Today I phoned the lawyer to sort things with the divorce paper and move on on our common decision to go our separate ways. It just seems that keeping delaying the whole process is just more painful in the end and neither of us is interested to live in limbo, or as Nathalie wrote it: “when you sit on the fence, you never truly have a stake in anything and you at best have a half life.” The strange thing is as hard as it is for both of us at the moment, because we really gave it all to make it works (both left jobs, moved twice to find somewhere we could both live with etc…neither of us as any regrets for our years together.
Absolutely. What I feel in my heart is ‘terror’, and I have been paralysed for several years now, and still not willing to jump the fence.
What an inspirational article, thank you Natalie!!! I loved it: “””Decisions take courage as does admitting when something isn’t working for you and doing something about it – when you sit on the fence, you never truly have a stake in anything and you at best have a half life.”””All my life I am like this, scared of failure, thinking too much about something goes wrong even without trying and making a decision. I had so many opportunities to be happy and successful in my relationships and jobs, but fear “paralysed” me and was living in fear half of my existence! I must close this chapter of my life and start to live without fear.
Thank you again Natalie. You said something that I really needed reminding of. That making mistakes is not the same as failing or being a failure at something.
Can completely relate I’m well known as an indecisive person. Being the eldest I’m a perfectionist. Although I never know how to actually change this.
“Every person who is impacted by someone who sits on the fence, won’t commit, and who basically fannies around, is also sitting on the fence themselves.”
Indeed. I remember feeling tired of dealing with a fence sitter and asking him if I should just move on or if he wanted things to progress further. And of course I was told that he didn’t want me to move on, but he also didn’t add anything else to the conversation. When I tried to probe more info out of him he just danced around my questions and pissed me off even more. But you know what? He was still sitting on the fence, and so was I. I think I really did want to hear that he wanted to be with me, but at that point I would have been happy with any definitive answer that would have put me out of my misery. I finally snapped on him one day and things were over, we both fell off the fence.
Funny how I can look back at that and see how lazy I was being in all of that. How did I not see how much power I had in that situation?
Lia,
It’s so true. I remember thinking that I did not have control over the situation, because what I wanted was him. And if he didn’t want a relationship at that point, what could I do? Of course as much as I thought I wanted to be with him, I should have decided a lot sooner that having him call me his ‘friend’ or ‘best friend’ and wanting me around for all the perks while he decided whether or not he might want to be with me at some later date was definitely not something to put up with.
Dear Chloe. ~insert hug & empathic smile~
You think PERHAPS this older guy is dicking you around? PERHAPS? As in like ‘MAYBE’ he is. Firstly, go bavlck & read what you’ve written about how he treating you? Can’t say how he feels about you. Thinks marriage is only for the ‘right person’ (implying that isn’t you). Doesn’t want you to influence his property buying decision?
I’m a very simple person so I will give this to you straight. Listen closely – because it’s VERY important for you to ‘get’ this. Ready? Here goes…
THIS MAN DOES NOT GIVE A FLYING F*CK ABOUT YOUR BEST INTERESTS & IS EMOTIONALLY UNAVAILABLE. ALL HE HAS TO OFFER IS A BIT OF ARMCHAIR THERAPY IN EXCHANGE FOR SEX & YOUR (MOST LIKELY) VERY PLEASANT COMPANY.
Problem is, the more you engage with him (glad you broke it off & hope for your sake that it stays that way but also understand sometimes these things are a process rather than a single event) the freater the liklihood you will need a hell of a lot MORE (real) therapy because he drive you mental, with his EU.
Then, if you’re open to it, try saying affirmations whilst looking at youself in a mirror. Try something like ‘I love & accept all of myself & I deserve nothing but the very best in all areas of my life, including romantic relationships’. Say it say 50 times over & over. At first you may feel silly & think of this is stupid, why am I doing this. I promise if you persevere though that you will move beyond the initial awkward stage & end up really believing it – because you NEED to.
More hugs. All the best. T x
teachable, Thanks for your comments. Hard to get that, but glad you are being straight with it, only way I like it and can get it. I did recieve an email from him he sent me a horoscope on the two of us and said it’s true where it say it’s hard work for us. Then he said he found it hard to be with me after sex. I’m thinking to myself, yes, because I expected some kind of love/ affectionate languaging to go along with it. (not necessarily the 3 words we all want), and some kind of moving forward. Anyways, in his mind I am moving wayyyyy too fast for him, and when we did have the last fight, he once again blamed the whole thing on me. And you are right, it may take some time, but I will survive…..thanks
Hi Magnolia
I had a similar job dilemna a few yrs ago (minus the moving issue). Against what I *really* wanted I *settled* on the offer after negotiating the $ up a tad. For me this turned out to be a BIG mistake. Bottom line: I was *never* happy there as the job offered wasn’t the one I’d applied for. They were awful to work for to boot. These decisions are never *easy* at the best of time. Add the NEED for $/employment (esp in industries where opportunities are hard to come by) & they can become very stressful.
In hindsight in my sitch, I vowed never to compromise myself in such a way again. Yr sitch may be quite different but please, tread cautiously. It would be a mistake to presume that the 8mth contract might lead to something more permanent. I’ve watched similar situations play out time & again (usually at the expense of the ‘hopeful’ short term contract employee!
Good luck whatever you decide. T 🙂
As usual, good one. I often question myself when making decisions (not small ones; mostly BIG ones), but if I think TOO much about a decision, I tell myself to stop it, be realistic, and make a decision. When I make the decision, I stick to it come hell or high water. Mistakes, whether we like them or not, are a part of life and one can’t possibly grow without making any.
Hi Magnolia,
So many times I find I can relate the advice to more than dating. If this was a man you wanted to have a long term future with but he offered something a lot less substantial and insecure would you drop everything and move to be with him? And would you do so in the hope that it lead to a committed relationship? Probably not if you read BR. However, if this gives you valid work experience and you go into it with your eyes open and do not invest too much of yourself then it may work well for you. Make sure you use it a as spring board to something better. Remember it is always a lot easier getting another job when you are employed than unemployed. and since they up-front told you its not permanent you are not going to get accused of disloyalty by doing so. I wish it was as easy on the heart to change men as it can be to change jobs.
LOVE the spam filter analogy titi! That rocks!
And Grace, 3 yrs to recover from something that lasted for one. I relate. 18 mths now for me to recover from xAC who only lasted 18 mths. AND, due to severe damage done to all areas of my life, I’ve still got another couple to go. Guess the silver lining is that’s one hell of an incentive to have iron clad bounderies to prevent such a thing happening again. Crappy consolation but better than being a perpetual victim. Ugh. Glad to see u seem to feeling a little better now. I need to hear we DO recover & get to the otherside as the light at the end of the tunnel has disappeared for me & I’m forging ahead on blind faith. Thanks for giving me a touch of hope, all be it tad disheartening in terms of time lost in the rebuilding stage. T 🙂
I was a fence sitter for years. The motivation behind my inability to make a definitive decision was fear–fear that if I chose to walk away, I’d regret it forever, fear that if I asked him to define the ‘relationship’ or his feelings, he’d disappear, fear that if I moved on, he’d meet someone and fall madly in love, get married, etc. Let me tell you, fence sitting will NOT protect you from what you fear most, and it will not protect you from what is likely to happen ANYWAY. Talk about a nightmare, ALL of my fears came to pass. I sat on the fence and allowed myself to be used without saying a word as he would show up, disappear, show up again, disappear to get into a “real” relationship with someone else, come back to me, disappear again… The last time he showed up, things were going well, seemed to be different this time, then the same old behavior started to show itself. I *finally* had the courage to say, “I’m not doing this again. Things have to be different this time, or I’m not participating.” I was shaking as I said it. I was not really ready to hear the truth. My intentions behind speaking up were manipulative. I thought that by telling him I was serious, I cared deeply, and the path to my heart was clear and safe for him to travel down, he’d suddenly become the man I deluded myself into believing he was all along, tell me he felt the same way, had only been afraid, and we’d ride off into the sunset. Well, it ‘backfired.’ He basically said he couldn’t promise me he’d “feel something” this time. He topped it off by saying he didn’t want me to be “mad at him” if we picked up again and he didn’t feel anything (again). So basically, if we do this (again), it’s on my terms (again), and if I take off with someone else (again), you can’t even be hurt or mad because you KNEW the deal beforehand. Thank God I refused to repeat history. My worst fear then happened. He picked up with someone else very shortly after, “fell in love,” got married, and they lived happily ever after (or not). I ended up in therapy. I spent the past 10+ years occasionally beating myself to a bloody pulp over the fact that I should have stayed quiet. Maybe if I had just waited a little longer, he would have chosen me, blah, blah, blah… I found this site and it has been one of the best things to happen to…
Whoops, I think my post may have been cut off before I finished. Basically, GET OFF THE FENCE! All the fence sitting in the world is not going to change a cockroach into Prince Charming. Don’t waste your precious time waiting for someone who has probably ALREADY shown you who he/she really is to suddenly become someone different. Life’s too short and your feelings and your future are too valuable.
Wide Awake, I think you are strong lady and should be proud of yourself, good for you that you flushed him! I wasted few years of my life with AC and was hopping that he was going to change (blowing cold/hot, endlessly promising kids, marriage ( I NEVER even mentioned that to him!)….Obviously, his actions did not match his words!!! I started NC again and thanks GOD he stopped bothering me now:-) I keep reading Natalie’s posts and they keep me going and make me stronger day by day….ALL THE best to you xxx
Wide Awake, your story is heartbreaking x You make such an important point that fear of him meeting someone else if you bail out is no reason to stay. It’s a reason to walk away because it’s not what a healthy and fulfilling relationship looks like, and we’ve learned the hard way that it happens anyway. I was wasting my time on the fence with someone who didn’t have ‘feelings’ for years but still he acted like we were together when he felt like picking me up. It tore me up when he picked up with others and when he got feelings for someone else. It didn’t last. Those feelings were deep as a paddling pool, compared to the puddle he had for me. We deserve some depth. It sounds like you’re ready to stop wasting any more time on him, cut your losses, and focus on you.
I understand your pain. My heart is with you. I’m in the same situation (except the mariage). You did the right thing. He will never change. You don’t know if he is treating her better.
I should clarify that this happened a long time ago, and I have since met and married a wonderful man. My mistake was after I flushed the EUM/AC, I dove head first into the toilet after him and drowned myself in regrets while hitting myself with the rejection paddle. I learned enough in therapy to be able to choose the RIGHT kind of man, and once I began dating again (after a 3-year hiatus), I met my husband and the rest is history. BUT, over all these years I would still occasionally (not very often) revisit the past and dwell on memories of the EUM/AC, imagine him being someone’s perfect husband (lol), and beat myself up all over again. Usually a blow to my self-esteem or a dream about the AC would trigger the trip down memory lane. I started doing it again a few weeks ago, and searching on Google for “getting over an ex” or some such nonsense brought me to BR, and I am a changed woman! My only regret now is that I can’t travel back in time and flush the AC sooner.
Lately, I realized how scared I am to make a move of any kind. I’ve been so afraid of all kinds of mistakes. I’m 51, and I’ve put the erroneous idea in my head that whatever big decisions I make at this point in life are going to be final, unlike decisions I’ve made earlier in life.
I know the truth is change is always possible, and just cause I’m 51 doesn’t mean I am stuck with my decisions forever. I’m really trying to get to the essence of this, and digest it so that I can move on without so much fear.
I’m thinking about both career and geo. changes, I’d also like a relationship, and been on a few dates since I found this site, only to quickly come to the conclusion that none of the dates were worth pursuing. I’ve lost a certain lightness I used to have, now everything seems to bear so much weight.
I live in a great city now San Francisco, and have a business I like, so it’s not like I want to flee, but I wonder about what/where else I can experience in life.
Thanks Nat
The penny has droped for me and I understand why I have been ending up with Mr Unavailables, because I’m too scared to make a mistake. My parents had a messy divorce when I was 11 and the aftermath was horrendous (it went on for years)… I vowed never to get married. I am 38 now and have spent 27 years avoiding repeating the same mistakes. I couldn’t even say to partners/lovers what I wanted; love, kids, commitment, respect, friendship, trust, a home and security. I didn’t really know what I wanted, or never felt deserving. I couldn’t speak up for myself, even though I come across as strong and confident, deep down I was fragile and felt vurnerable in every relationship. I didn’t believe any of it was for me. Since the last and very painful experience with a man, I’m working on changing these beliefs and I believe I am loving and deserving. The last experience catapulted me into determination and focus to change, to live life and not to fear love or pain. Thank you Natalie for your wise words and thank you to the person who catapulted me into change xxx
sam, I am 36 and also have very low self esteem. I didn’t start working on it until this year.I have been divorced twice and cheated on both of my husbands.One day last year , I slept with 3 men in 24 hours. I am only telling you this so you don’t feel alone. I didn’t want to be at this point in life at this age but I am. I would voluntarily go into FWB situations and then wonder why I got treated badly. I would know in my heart it was bad treatment, not abusive, just rude, ignoring calls and texts except when they wanted something , things like that. They were all “nice” men. Bought me dinner, sometimes gifts, well educated , good conversation etc. It just wasn’t enough for me and I am afraid to “really” date because that means I will have to commit to someone, and I am afraid to do that. just wanted to let you know, its never too late to change. I haven’t yet, I am just trying harder.
peeing my pants @ Spinsters last comment!! Too funny!!!
Usaidit raises some good points Magnolia. Very sound advice.
“Oh sorry. I don’t do mistakes so I know you’d love to know where we stand and be spared from my dipping in and out of your life and your bed for months or even years on end, but that’s just not a decision I can make. What if I become available or decide to change and then you’re not around anymore? What if I have regrets?”
Nat…did you write this for me specifically? LOL…I have realized lately that I am a committment phobe! GASP!!! It’s been hard to even grasp because I’ve also wanted a relationship so bad, but I just noticed how much I over think what could go wrong and if I fail and what if, what if what if!!! Lately, I have been making decisions surrounding my life that feel good even if there’s a fear of failure in there. I think this new push with grad school will eventually help with that as for the rest of this year and the following I will need to sort out my life in major ways. But I am still afraid of even dating becaus eof my past history. I know I have to make that decision, but how can I get rid of this fear of dating?
I’m an Aquarian/Pisces cusp, Mr EUM is a Libra/Scorpio cusp. He is therefore supposed to be my ideal astrological match (yeah right – and if you read NML’s blog regularly you’ll laugh with me at how we cling to this astrological BS as a reason to try and make things work when clearly they were screwed from the get-go). I have been on the ‘back-burner’ for the past nine months with occasional crumbs, hook-ups, and plenty of texting when he’s in need of an ego stroke. I have tried to finish it and he has used these opportunities ‘man up’ as a way of confusing me and my feelings towards him even more. A typical ‘Libran’ (here we go again) – constantly weighing up the pros and cons and unable to make a decision. Still not divorced which I now know is a major red flag (despite splitting from ex nearly three years ago) which of course underlines his inaction even more. I gave him the opportunity to come to New York with me three weeks ago as my BOYFRIEND. For him to have a great time with me before his deployment. He was up for it, sorting his visa etc. Unsurprisingly he backed out at the last minute. It was all too much of a commitment. I have friends in NY anyway so I upgraded myself and went and hung out with them. Drank far too much wine and co-woffee 😉 EUM was deployed to Afghan a couple of weeks ago. All is quiet. I’m strong and I will maintain NO CONTACT this time. The whole NYC thing was the final straw.
Hey Natalie – I’m at a stand-still in my life right now. I’ve always had difficulty with making decisions, but usually about small things. I used to be “brave”. I don’t know if this last years-long drama filled non-relationship has sucked the wind out of my sails or what… I just cant make myself move.
I know you are right, but my motivation is nil. I can’t see the future. I don’t really know what I want. I can’t decide on anything. I know I am stuck. Don’t know how to get UN-stuck 🙁
and like the wise lyrics in the song “Freewill” by RUSH …
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
The truly ironic thing is we avoid making a decision because we’re afraid we will make the “wrong” one and end up miserable for the rest of our lives, but by sitting on the fence we are making ourselves miserable ANYWAY. Do you know what I regret most in life? Not the choices I made that had less than stellar results or a painful outcome, but the TIME that I wasted by NOT making a choice at all. While sitting on the fence, lost in my delusion and paralyzed by fear, I passed up countless opportunities for happiness, fun, positive experiences, and true love.
Hello everyone. Although, I have read a few articles over the past year and have also read comments by BR users, this is the first time I’m commenting. I have avery low self esteem and have always attracted ACs and EUMS for so many years but it didn’t reach the commitment stage because I myself had commitment issues. I have a question for Natalie, Magnolia and anyone else that can advise me on this. I had finally fallen in love with a man a few years ago. He’s the nicest person I have ever met and finally, I wanted to commit to someone. However, although I’m the same religion, he has become more religious over the year and doesn’t feel that we are compatible because I would have a slightly different lifestyle to him so has made it clear that there isn’t a future. This guy isn’t an AC or an EUM. He’s the most caring person person I’ve come across and my best friend. I just don’t know what to do about this because I know I will never find someone as caring again. Nowhere as near to caring as him. I am hoping that I will become more religious one day and ha he will accept me.
Hi Finding Me,
What a heartbreak to have your love tell you that he thinks you are incompatible, especially if you felt you were on the same wavelength for a number of years.
My antennae are up regarding his statement, because if you have been together this long, and his faith was moving in a new direction, either he has been slowly moving away from you emotionally, in tandem with his faith shift, or he is using the “slight” difference in lifestyle to give you a reason he no longer wishes to be with you. (Or is letting you know he doesn’t want to marry.) In any case, he’s saying he sees no future. That is pretty stark.
Have you discussed “conversion”? Is the difference in faith a matter of converting? If you’re willing to do this, is there hope?
That said, your faith is a huge deal. It’s huge whether you are heavily religious, mildly religious, anti-religious or not religious at all, because your religiosity (or lack of it) is part of how you see the world. You can’t just change your own way of seeing the world on a dime. Conversion itself should be a deeply considered commitment.
If you are simply hoping you’ll “get more religious someday,” then I’d take a huge step back. You’re only hoping that so that you can save the relationship; you’re hoping to please him. Any girl I’ve ever known who tried to get more pious or devout to please a guy has set herself up for a lifetime of trying to follow someone else’s moral standards and … well, one girl I know developed serious mental issues trying to be a godly girl the way someone else wanted her to be.
You’re talking about your relationship with your own soul/conscience/consciousness/higher power here. Do not compromise that for anyone. If you are someone who believes in God, I’ll put it this way: your relationship with God is YOUR business and is between you and God. It comes BEFORE your relationship with a man. Your bf is just a man.
I am nowhere near as religious as many people but I have my relationship with the Mystery and I don’t care who tells me I’m not pious enough. And if it were a bf saying so, we’d be done.
Finding me
I’m religious. What kind of difference are we talking about? If you both share the same religion that shouldn’t be a stumbling block.
Religion has been misappropriated for many purposes, and this seems to be a particularly cruel one. It doesn’t sound caring to me.
Has he done the semi-decent thing and broke up with you over this allegedly insurmountable difference or is he jerking you around?
Finding me
I’m with Grace. Sounds like a lot of baloney to me. It’s astonishing what “reasons” these guys will come up with – but this is a cracker: Even though you are the same religion he has “become more religious over the year and doesn’t feel that we are compatible because I would have a slightly different lifestyle to him”.
If he says so. groan.
finding me-
i’ll see if i can help. first, you’re brave to write, its always hard the first time.
a couple questions –
1- were you actually in a relationship with him? what was the nature of the relationship?
2- over the years you loved him, did he love you back and say so? what kind of expectations were set for the relationship (if there was one) over this time?
i hope this makes sense, i may be off the mark and it may be hard for you to hear this BUT from what you write…
– you say he is so nice, so caring, so wonderful. but how does his religion stand in the way of his loving you? that doesn’t sound “nice” to me, it sounds very judgmental. and, um…sorry, ignorant.
– how is he such a nice, caring guy when he’s allowed you to love him – for years, no less – and only now told you there is no future – again, that doesn’t sound caring, it sounds controlling, manipulative and emotionally unavailable.
– you say he’s your best friend, but not one word you have written demonstrates how he actually does things that are caring, respectful and supportive of you.
– you have him on so high a pedestal that you are completely abdicating your right to your own spiritual life (who is to say you’re not religious enough?!?) and your right to feel good about yourself. you’re letting him shape your whole existence – nonono!!
honey, listen. this guy is NOT (i know you don’t know how to believe this but its true) the only guy on the planet for you. there are plenty of wonderful, caring people out there who – i can’t believe i’m going to type this – DO NOT DISCRIMINATE BASED ON RELIGION.
bravo for you for working on your commitment issues. now you MUST raise your own esteem further. you probably need a counselor to help with this, but don’t go to one from whatever church he goes to. and don’t talk to him about this.
you need perspective so you can see what’s really happening here. i can guarantee you, its not what you think. you’re a precious soul. don’t limit yourself by thinking this guy is so special – he’s not. why? because he’s not treating you as if YOU are special. you must realize how special you are and find people who agree, wholeheartedly. they are out there. honest.
Hi Finding Me,
I would like to say that love is always enough to keep people together, but on the long run, shared values and a sense of common destination is what make people stay together for the long haul. In a couple, you’re basically like a team of horse pulling and if you’re not in synch, both tire and go nowhere. As I wrote in my previous comment, my husband of 9 years and I are going through a separation because we changed and we are not anymore on the same journey. And there is no cheating with these things, as in “I’ll change to accommodate or I’ll write off my dreams forever to stay with that person.” The two of you have to be very honest with yourself and each others and see if compromises can be made without giving up on something essential. But it seems to me that by what you wrote, his mind is already made that this relationship wont work. If I was in your position, and after two years, I sure would have a honest discussion with him about a common future and move on if he does not see one with you. Its not very caring of him to let you marinate in your juice.
hmmm. You probably don’t want to hear this, but if he made it clear there isn’t a future, what is your choice? Is he asking you to change? That doesn’t sound very caring to me.
“When we fear getting it ‘wrong’, we have to recognise that when we make a decision, it’s about deciding about what is ‘right’ for us based on the knowledge we have at that time.”
yep – we sit around, waiting for omniscience, waiting for the last piece of information that tips the scales in one direction or another. problem is, we never get it until way too far after the fact. if we had more faith in ourselves, and were willing to trust ourselves, and to love ourselves even if we make a mistake, it wouldn’t be so bad, so hard.
so, we should all tell ourselves we’ll love ourselves, unconditionally, no matter what – and then take the chance we’re facing.
CC, Chloe, and Grace, thank you so much for responding to my comment. You are ALL right in your own ways. . . I am moving on.
My 12 year old did something several months ago, a pretty serious offense, which resulted in much discussion and a month long grounding. Today we were discussing regrets and changing the past and he said, “I wouldn’t change anything I’ve done quite honestly.” I asked him about this particular incident and he replied, “Are you kidding me??!! Do you know how much better I’ve been since then? Mistakes are what MAKE us!” Wow. 🙂
I got the teaser blurb to this post delivered to my email inbox and couldn’t wait to get home to read it (for some reason, my work server blocks this site as inappropriate material – the IT dept must be EU!). Anyway, I know that I’ve been sitting on the fence for a couple years now, hubby and I living in separate rooms, living separate lives, etc. But I can’t pull the trigger on divorce because of my fear of what the decision will do to my CHILD. So, I read this post with great anticipation – and it was a good post; don’t get me wrong – but it was about EU’s and people who won’t commit because of choices that are neither right nor wrong…I guess I struggle with the thought that some choices ARE wrong – and some mistakes can’t be managed or undone, especially mistakes that impact the innocent and voiceless. Yes, I have a choice. But what of my child’s choice? The guilt and potential regret I’ll feel over the pain I’ll inflict has kept me on the fence living half a life. Why? I guess because it’s MY life that’s been halved. Not my child’s. Ugh.
Just this past weekend I was telling someone about when my parents divorced. I was 15, my sisters 13 and 11. My mother called us in together and was trembling and crying and telling us she wanted a divorce. I jumped up and shouted, “HOORAY! FINALLY!” and my sisters and I were all very excited and happy.
Our parents’ marriage was horrible. We couldn’t wait for them to be done with it. My mother had spent literally YEARS worrying and fearful about how it would affect us and was so involved in her own inner conflict she couldn’t see how the terrible marriage was affecting us already, and was shocked that we would be thrilled about the divorce.
I left home shortly thereafter, because come to find out, what gave her the courage to leave the marriage was an AC she had taken up with from work…but that is another story 🙂
Yes I have to agree with Sunshine and I really hope Rosenfire that you never tell your child or imply that the reason that you have remained in your marriage is because of them, as you will teach your child some very negative beliefs about themselves. That and the reason you have remained is because of you – it isn’t fair to put it on the child. It isn’t a responsibility that they deserve.
I was besotted with my father and missed him greatly but I’ll tell you something – even at age frickin five I figured out that it would have been absolutely disastrous if he and my mother stayed together. My mum and stepfather stayed together for 18 years – again we had figured out very early on that they should not be together. I am one of many people I know who has been told by parents that they stayed together, persisted in being miserable, did Ike & Tina part two for the kids – parents do far more damage by holding their children hostage to their inability to make a decision and then communicating by actions and possibly even words how miserable they are. This is why there are so many emotionally unavailable people who are scared of commitment and don’t want to repeat what their parents did, or already are repeating it.
Rosenfire
My situation is similar to yours, so I have a good idea how it feels.
I am making tentative steps towards dealing with it. Ending a marriage is a very, very hard thing to do. The thing is though I have known in the bottom of my heart for a long time it isn’t right and cannot be fixed and if I don’t leave it will gnaw at me forever, and be a constant source of anxiety and regret. I am having individual counselling which I am finding helpful in looking at what my underlying beliefs are about relationships. I too have been in the spare room for some considerable time. The thing the therapist has pointed out to me which I found helpful is that we have a friendship, of sorts, not a marriage. There’s no reason why we can’t continue to have a friendship and to co-parent our kids, but we don’t need to be married to do that. Good luck to you.
Good luck to u
I think that it’s true that having a child does make things more difficult in terms of making a firm decision, if only because your wellbeing becomes so intrinsically tied up in doing what’s right for them.
I’m not in your situation (although sympathy, it sounds seriously difficult) but I know that when I was pregnant, the drive to bring my child into a ‘normal’ family was overwhelming, to the point where I sacrificed all of my dignity trying to get Son’s dad to ‘choose’ me and stopped being able to eat with the anxiety.
I nearly posted something similar myself to this post – I don’t particularly like having to interact with Son’s dad when he really cares so little for me and feel compelled to ‘fix’ the relationship in some way when I do (it’s unfixable). But, at the same time, I don’t want Son to grow up with two parents who don’t talk at all, I don’t want to cut Son off from a dad who loves him dearly and I tend towards believing that I should ‘get over it’ in the interests of Making It Work, so it’s awkward. I flip-flap a lot.
In thinking this over, I’ve come to the following conclusions, which may or may not be wise and you may or may not find helpful:
Here goes:
a) Children exponentially complicate any relationship – whereas before you had one dynamic to worry about (you and partner) you now have four (you and child, partner and child, you and partner, all of you together). BUT the really important dynamics for the well-being of the child are, imo, between you and your child and between your partner and the child. A bad situation in one in which the dynamic between you and your partner damages one of the other dynamics – either because you separate badly or because you stay together badly.
b) Having a child gives you an even bigger responsibility in terms of your own emotional well-being – a happy parent is a better parent, I think. Case in point: I let myself get to the point where I couldn’t eat while I was pregnant – HOW was that good parenting in any way, shape or form? Even if I’d ended up with Son’s dad, it still wouldn’t have been worth the potential harm.
c) You also have a responsibility to model healthy relationships to your child. This isn’t necessarily a good or a close or a romantic relationship – but it isn’t one where either party is deeply unhappy or one person is giving way more than the other either.
d) I think that you have to let go of the past when it comes to relationships with children (which I still find incredibly difficult) but that doesn’t mean that you have to put up with the stuff that you put up with in the past, either. I find myself doing a lot of ‘fire-fighting’ atm – dealing with issues decisively when they arise.
I tend to find that, when we’re focusing on Son and how much we both adore him, me and his dad get on pretty well and I feel okay. The problems come up when either of us tries to operate along the old ‘us’ dynamic. That’s broken and mouldy.
I know that this is all a bit glib and probably teaching my grandmother to suck eggs, but when I broke it down like that I found that my priorities and course of action were pretty clear. Ignore it if it’s rubbish, though.
Thank you for the comments, everyone. As I sit on this fence trying to come to a decision I can live with, I will consider everything that all of you wrote. In my particular situation, there are several mitigating factors that I won’t go into because I’d feel like I was hijacking Natalie’s site, but suffice it to say that they all center on my son, and my own wellbeing, since I recognize that my health impacts my ability to mother and care for my son.
NML, I hope I never tell my son (or imply) that he is responsible for either my leaving OR my staying. I make choices, and I have to live with them. He has to live with my choices too – even the ones I made before he was born (e.g., to marry, to conceive, etc.) – but this in no way makes him responsible for any of them. If my son is aware of anything I’m experiencing, it’s on a subconscious level, which does concern me, but I’ve been very careful to keep things to myself or with my husband behind closed doors. My misery is primarily internal – caused by the stress of living one way on the outside (for my son’s sake) and desiring a whole other existence on the inside.
Sunshine, my husband and I are civil. People might look from the outside in and envy our marriage (so they’ve told me). In fact, friends and family can’t understand why I’d possibly want a divorce and tell me I’d be making a mistake. My son is young now and adores his father and thinks his family is awesome…so I imagine he’d side with those who won’t understand why I want a divorce and think I’m making a mistake.
Mymble, Yoghurt (your comment was cut off)…I can’t reply right now to either of you specifically because your comments make me cry when I consider them. But thank you; they mean a great deal to me.
NML: I meant to add that you’re right – there are lessons I certainly do NOT want to be teaching my son. Which, actually, is one of my biggest motivators for leaving the marriage. This, that I just said, “My misery is primarily internal – caused by the stress of living one way on the outside (for my son’s sake) and desiring a whole other existence on the inside,” is NOT something I want to teach my son, by precept or by example. I don’t want to model a half-lived/fake life or a life of repression or sublimation. This much I know. Still figuring out the rest.
Hi Magnolia,
Being new here that is the first time I’ve heard a little of yr story & I so feel for you. What an awful thing for your ex to do! I’m a former professional musican (retired many years back now – a lifetime ago) but it remains a passion I hope to return to as hobby when my health permits, so the example you gave really resonated with me. I’m so sorry you were treated with such emotional cruelty. And you are very astute. They DO use attentiveness as a weapon – i.e only when it suits their twisted mind effery purposes.
Reading people’s stories here (not to mention dealing with the real fallout from my own), is making me feel so relieved to be out of the dating game for a couple of years. I’m FAR too fragile to be able to withstand even the slightest knock of any of this unacceptable, & sometimes downright abusive behaviour from these EUM’s & AC’s. Ugh. Too much already.
Looking forward to hearing how the job turns out.
T 🙂
PS Hugs needed here today. Managing to focus on me (ie exam prep) but xAC *is* on my mind. No temptation whatsoever to break NC but still angry at myself for letting myself down where he was concerned. The only antidote I have is to deepen my resolve to stuggle through the challenges I’m dealing with in the aftermath with the aim of rebuilding my life & self stronger than ever before.
In this though I’m sitting on the fence about a work / health decision. I’m putting it aside until after my upcoming exam though as I’d be too overwhelmed otherwise.
Meanwhile my health is *really* shot. It’s making day to day life & exam prep very difficult. Maybe instead of berrating myself for sitting on the fence about work / health issue it’s ok to realise I can only deal with so much at one time? I hope so. Each day is already like trying to walk in concrete boots. Bugger.
teachable-
hugs to you. hang in there, and yes, don’t waste energy getting on your own case.
Firstly, I just want to thank those have responded. I have read comments before under every article I have read and was touched to see women helping each other here.
Magnolia – I am of the same religion and he hasn’t stopped loving me but as he’s become more religious, he feels that in a marriage, two people should be on the same wavelength, this includes the mentality of how we see things in life. Over past several months, he’s felt that he doesn’t know where whatever we has is heading and doesn’t want to feel he’s holding me back from finding someone else just because he himself wants someone where the lifestyle won’t clash. I find this all so bizarre because it’s gone beyond religion now, it’s also about the mentality and how we look at things in life. For example, it can be about being too much into clothes to make one happy or watching movies which inn his view changes the way we think. I find all this weird since a husband wife will have these differences and it doesn’t mean that it would cause issues. To be honest, I really am tired of convincing him that it would work. I know he’s not an AC or an EUM but considering I had been trying to convince ACs and EUMs for years, I’m honestly tired of it now. I myself am trying to find help from God from this situation just so that I get some sort of comfort. I know that ideally, I have to stop talking to him so that he gets with someone he wants eventhough he’s not even looking for anyone at the moment. He hasn’t even tried to change me. He doesn’t want to but he knows what kind of woman he wants and that sure isn’t me so I think it’s for the best, I just focus on my life now.
Annied – Yes, he’s told me that we won’t be compatible so I should just try and accept it.
cc- The nature of what we have is strange. We love each other but we don’t do anything physical. Yes, we used to kiss before he became religious. That was part of the reason why he stopped kissing and also because he didn’t want to lead me on especiall when he started to talk about lifestyles. He didn’t want to say it can’t happen and yet kiss me too. When I tried to kiss him, he gently pushed me away because he didn’t want to lead me on. He knew this isn’t going anywhere which is why he has tried to let me go for my sake so that my love for him isn’t the cause of holding me back from meeting someone else. We…
Finding
I’m sorry – this is EU to the nth degree.
There are lots of gay men in church trying to be straight. I’m not saying this is the case here but – it could be. Even if he is straight, he seems to have issues around sexuality. He sounds guilt-ridden – hence the issues around clothes and movies. There’s bigger fish to fry than what someone else wears. He can still wait for marriage to have sex while leaving you in no doubt that he finds you attractive (if he does). You need to leave this well alone.
He doesn’t have to be sexing you, or being mean or cruel to be EU. The EU – without exception, however nice or kind or caring they are, however religious – are AMBIVALENT. Many of Nat’s posts point to that, including this one. And knock him off his pedestal. I don’t know if you’re a christian but don’t make for yourself idols. And that includes men. He’s just a bloke.
“He knew this isn’t going anywhere which is why he has tried to let me go” They all say that. He is using you. Don’t let him do it anymore. He won’t decide – YOU do it.
But- are you two actually in a relationship? Careful of those sandcastles in the air.
Finding Me – I think you’re missing the wood for the trees. You’re with an unavailable man – you have an excuse filled relationship and after him essentially declaring that you’re incompatible which is code red, abort mission, he has not LEFT. That is what an available person would DO. He has also revealed both through actions and words that he has undermined your relationship by not believing in it and finding some of the most obscure reasons to lessen the commitment. He has also, when faced with commitment, baulked at it, which is automatically unavailable. You cannot convince him – it will remove your dignity. If he wanted in an this, he’d be talking about a solution you can both live with – compromise – not pontificating out of his bottom. Bottom line – he doesn’t want to commit, which means it’s over and out. Don’t believe me? Stick around and offer to fix every issue and see how he finds another one. This isn’t about you. This is him and his issues which are his to fix.
The rest of my comment was cut off because I think I exceeded the number of words.
cc- Just to some it up, we are 2 people that love each other. Although, we feel it’s a relationship, the relationship label isn’t attached. I can’t explain well. He’s just on a different wavelength now, practising more and his mentality has changed too but I am still the same person so we’re not on the same path. He hasn’t tried to change me. He wants me to be me and find someone else who will accept me for who I am. I know I should let go of this so that he can end up with someone he wants eventhough he’s not looking at the moment.
Grace and Fearless – Yes, he tried to stop talking to me for my sake so that he feels he’s not holding me back but it was me that would cling onto the friendship. He hasn’t jerked around. He doesn’t event touch me except give me a quick friendly hug. He doesn’t want to lead me on. He still says that he loves me but that religion is the most important thing in his life now and doesn’t want to marry someone who’s not compatible and won’t let love cloud what he wants out of a marriage. I know I need to let go but he’s also been my best friend and it will be strange to not have my best friend around.
Finding
Don’t walk, run!
Speak to one of your elders or equivalent. Maybe a woman in that position. Get this out in the semi-open (don’t tell EVERYONE). You’re taking everything he says as the gospel truth. You need support and a more realistic second opinion.
He’s not looking? Why is he talking about marriage so much? Just let the picture go through your mind of him walking down the aisle with someone else. I think you need to prepare yourself.
(Yes, this is striking a chord with me!)
yeah, finding me-
please take what natalie and grace said seriously. he is completely EU. this doesn’t mean he’s a bad person but he is absolutely unavailable and not worth 1 ounce of further time or effort. and honestly, he doesn’t sound like a prize – not fun, not nice, all dogma and excuses. not just that, but you’re letting yourself be brainwashed into his point of view, and this needs to stop.
there is nothing here. but there is something wonderful elsewhere and within you.
Finding, from one God believing person to another… this is not about religion. I assure you because this same situation happened to me. Only that guy ended up being a sex addict who only had illicit encounters with other men. I dont know what your guys problem is but I can guarantee you it isnt ‘difference’ in religious commitment. There is always a back story.
Finding Me,
Scroll up a bit and read my comment – it’s about me and my life, and my misery, but all of this could be yours, too! Everything you’ve written sounds nearly identical to what I lived about 15 years ago…*before* I talked my “best friend” into marrying me. We met at Bible school, so you can imagine the religiousity. But all that your man has been saying to you – my man said to me. I just didn’t listen/believe him/accept it as fact. God, how I wish I had. God, how I wish I had let him go, so that we BOTH would have been happy. Don’t try to figure him or his views out. Don’t try to understand the shift or the reasons why. Don’t try to find a way to make it “work.” He is absolutely, 100%, completely correct when he tells you that these differences (you might think them trivial and workable) will impact the way the two of you view life and will create an incompatibility that you can’t bridge. He is right.
Let him go. Feel the present pain and mend. It will, without a doubt, be less than the future pain you’d feel trying to forge a relationship with someone who already knows you aren’t fit to be partners, and the future pain you’d feel when you inevitably break up. Or, as in my case, when you sit on the fence for years, lonely as hell and miserable too, because you now have a child to consider.
PS: One thing you write, “For example, it can be about being too much into clothes to make one happy or watching movies which inn his view changes the way we think. I find all this weird since a husband wife will have these differences and it doesn’t mean that it would cause issues.” You are wrong here, Finding Me. Veeeerrrryyyy wrong. These differences will definitely cause issues. Why? Because he has told you that they will. Believe the man. He’s telling you the truth. Don’t try to psychoanalyze him or read between the lines. You will be doing yourself a favor (and not making yourself crazy) if you simply believe what the man says and let. him. go.
It’s too personal and painful for me to go into specifics, but please at least consider my comments. I’m serious when I say this sounds nearly identical to my situation. Clothes, movies, kissing – exactly. I tried to change to please him, and it caused me to live such an incongruent, inauthentic life that it messed me up mentally, emotionally, and physically. He, on the other hand, didn’t change. Oh, I *tried* to change him – and that, too, messed me up mentally, emotionally, and physically. Now, we’re back to where we were originally, and both sad, lonely, and full of guilt and regret. I don’t want this for you. Let him live his life, and let you live yours.
Finding Me, I’ve been where you are with the truth right in front of me but desperately trying not to see it or believe it. As heartbreaking and painful as it is, there are only two things you need to know here–and you already know them:
1. He told you he does NOT see a future with you. (The reason why does NOT matter).
2. You need to BELIEVE him and start moving in a new direction (away from him).
Everything you do from this point on that is an attempt to change how he feels about you will only cause you more suffering.
I’m so sorry. I know how painful this is.
finding me-
i know i’m repeating myself –
please listen to rosenfire and wide awake’s advice. rosenfire has so obviously been through it, and boy, does her story resonate.
THEN – remember that you have every right to live in JOY. fully expressed joy, whatever that looks like to you. with no one else suppressing, repressing, restricting you or boxing you in. don’t you want a partner who relishes you just as you are?!? who loves you and appreciates all the little things about you that make you YOU? the only answer is yes! i know there is a little person of you inside screaming to be loved just. as. she. is.
let him go. and then BE yourself. fully.
Finding me,
“Just to some it up, we are 2 people that love each other. Although, we feel it’s a relationship, the relationship label isn’t attached. I can’t explain well.” But he IS leading you on by letting you believe this. He loves you, and you feel like it’s a relationship, but it’s not, and he does not see a future with you. What? How can you have a relationship with someone who has told you he does not want to be with you down the line? It’s not a relationship, this is him keeping you around even though he knows that you have feelings for him and want something more. That’s not fair, and it’s EU. Whether or not you think his reasons are valid (you expect there to be differences between partners and that that in itself is not a deal breaker–but he is telling you that it is) you have to listen to what he is saying. Sometimes when their reasoning makes no sense it’s because these guys are not being entirely truthful with you. Either that, or they have a strange, screwed up way of thinking. Which ever it is, it’s not something you can change. You are not open to finding a relationship with someone who accepts you and wants to be with you as long as you continue with this. Tell this man that you want a relationship with someone who wants to be with you, and that you can’t move on with him in your life. If he truly cares about you, he will respect your wishes and leave you alone. If he says “but I’ll miss you, I still want you in my life, can’t we be friends” or any of the like–it’s selfish and another example of him wanting to keep you around even though he does not want to commit to being with you. Don’t be swayed by it.
@Finding Me, hi again. I once asked an older man that I trust his opinion on a romantic confusion I was experiencing. The guy I was seriously into didn’t see a future with me, and I couldn’t figure out why. My paternal figure first joked that the man in question must either be gay or myopic if he wasn’t interested in a relationship with me, but then he got serious and offered this advice, saying: the bad men in life will break things off with women by being mean; i.e., they will treat them horribly, neglect them, call them offensive names, etc. The genuinely good guys will try to find something nice (and true) to say to the woman to let her know that there isn’t anything “wrong” with her; it’s just that they don’t see a future with her. They aren’t necessarily making stuff up (as some commenters have implied or accused about your friend) or hiding something. They truly care for you and don’t want to hurt your feelings, and they truly believe that you will make a fine partner – for someone else. They are trying to do the right thing and also let you down easy. You might not understand their reasons, but you can respect the fact that they were honest and let you go.
In your particular case, I can’t be the judge because I don’t know the guy. But it doesn’t sound like he’s stringing you along. It actually sounds like HE has made himself very clear (while trying to be kind and making it about HIM, not you) and that he’s also drawn some very clear boundaries. I would think the commenters/readers on this site would appreciate such a man. Why do we instantly malign him? He has his vision for what he wants in a partner and he’s going to stick to it. (Would that we were all so upfront and dedicated!) It seems, instead, that you aren’t listening to him or respecting his boundaries (trying to kiss him)because you fear losing him. Sadly, he’s not yours to lose.
It also doesn’t sound like he’s EU or being uncaring. He loves you, but he loves something else more: himself. This is not selfish; it’s healthy. He knows himself. He knows what he wants. He knows the kind of life and wife he wants. He wants you to find what YOU want, and he knows that HE isn’t it. I know this hurts you, and I’m truly sorry for your pain, but I respect a man who is honest and upfront.
As for those who made remarks questioning whether religion is the “real…
I went over limit unintentionally, so I’ll simply say: consider priests and monks or anyone who chooses an ascetic lifestyle. Men can be that devoted to religion, without it being a crutch or an excuse to end a relationship, and the devotion can evolve/increase over time. Let him go. NO woman can compete with God. And you shouldn’t have to.
Rosenfire, I have been in the same situation as Finding. I do agree totally with your assessment, except if he really cared about her he wouldnt still be hanging around. The good guys go away and they dont lead you on by hanging around lapping up your friendship. Also on the religious commitment, two people will not always their whole life be at the same level. Even if you marry someone, you will definitely have different levels of commitment to God at different times in the relationship.
finding
may as well chuck in my tuppence worth.
“Although, we feel it’s a relationship, the relationship label isn’t attached. I can’t explain well.”
The reason you can’t explain well is because none of it makes any sense, and I guarantee you that it makes no sense because he is talking out of his arse and/or because you are fooling yourself. In this case it’s both those things.
You are making way too many assumptions about how he feels and why he does or doesn’t do x, y or z, and he is taking advantage of your gullibility. If he wants a different relationship with a different women, why the eff is he still hanging around you? And what are o doing? Sticking around offering him ego strokes, giving him endless chances to reject you while hoping and waiting for an upgrade? I’ve done this. It brings no rewards and much pain.
Get this guy off his ‘best-most-super-duper-caring-considerate -guy-ever-in-the-whole-wide-world’ pedestal. He is a just another total chancer who’s taking the piss (whether he knows it or not). Don’t be fooled by the Holy Willie, moral high ground grabbing routine; there’s nothing admirable about the way this man is running his ‘not technically a relationship’ with you. If he cared anything for you he’d eff off and leave you alone.
You should read Natalie’s ‘the dreamer and the fantasy relationship’ book – for your own good. I don’t mean to be harsh here, just straight.
Fearless, I don’t think the guy is the one you have the problem with. In one of Finding’s posts, she explains, “Yes, he tried to stop talking to me for my sake so that he feels he’s not holding me back but it was me that would cling onto the friendship.” He has told her to find someone else, stopped all romance, and made himself clear. AND, he stuck to his boundaries when she tried to kiss him anyway. I find this quite admirable behavior on his part. She is the one who is struggling with the boundaries and with leaving him alone because (her words) “it will be strange to not have my best friend around.” HE is not on the fence that Natalie is talking about; she is.
I’m suspicious of any guy who suggests finding someone else, it’s so hurtful. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the 2 decent, available men who ended things with me did NOT say I’d be great for someone else, because it’s a painful thought even when breaking up. One lovely man said he wished we’d meet again in the far future. It sounds so paternalistic when someone says it, like they don’t see you as an equal and maybe never did.
I think I personally win the prize for fence sitting. After 6.5 years of EUM – I decided to leave. At that point my ex said he had something important to share with me – that he realized he’d been ‘on the fence’ the whole time and was now wanting to come off. I couldn’t believe the nerve of him. He said he’d been thinking about it for a couple of months (but of course never shared it with me till after it was clear I was done). Well I broke up with him anyway, told him I didn’t even want to know what ‘off the fence’ meant to him. A year later, after he’s working overseas, he comes back and wants to meet up. Leaves a vm for me that using my pet name. I ignore it for a few days. He then emails me a picture of his newly buff naked upper body and says ‘here’s your punishment for not getting to me’. I seriously could’ve killed him. I wrote him a blistering email basically telling him what a mind f**er he was and to get out and stay out of my life. He pretty much has since then. I heard he’s going out with a 28 year old now (he’s 48! – I’m 41). I just how could I have gone for such a scuzz ball. Now I’m too afraid to date. it’s been almost 2.5 years. I know I’m EUM and it’s depressing…
In short, “Dump him before he dumps you!” It’s gonna feel a lot worse the other way around, especially if he’s a schmuck:)
I just want to comment on something Blueberry Girl said, about pulling positive people toward you once you free yourself of the AC who tormented you, and get your self-esteem back. I have to give my ex AC a lot of credit for teaching me everything I don’t want in a relationship. His cruelty and selfishness ultimately forced me to wake up and discover that I do love myself, that I am worthwhile — and to say “no” to all the selfish, miserable people out there who are like him. Never again. It’s taken 10 months and a lot of self-discovery, but I have changed for the better. I am seeing that I have developed boundaries, and it feels good. Just the other day, someone who I thought was a friend (the type of person who boasts that she is “brutally honest”), said something very nasty. I didn’t say anything for a couple of minutes, felt the anger well up inside me, and with total clarity told her exactly what I thought of her nasty comment and what it said about her, not me. I also told her that I am not interested in being around people who make me feel bad about myself. Those days are over. I could see she felt ashamed. The important thing was, I had reacted that way only to honour myself, not to shame her. I left there feeling good and strong.
The old me would have taken her insult as the gospel truth, and I would have gone home feeling angry, hurt, and resentful. I used to think that when others made negative comments about me, it was truly about me. Now, unless they are given with love and meant constructively, I know that nasty comments are about the person making them — not about me
For the first time in my life, I feel good about who I am, and I’m seeing that it’s absolutely essential to surround yourself with good, healthy people in this life. I’m also learning to tell the difference between the healthy ones and the unhealthy ones. When you get to this point, it’s a fantastic feeling.
I’m ready for a healthy relationship now, for the first time ever. I now understand the meaning of, “Without pain, we don’t grow.”
good for you kelly!!! its true, there is no growth without pain, but maybe the pain is there to burn the lesson into us. its like a crucible that we get reborn in. ouch. but, ultimately, yay! thanks for this!
I have been reading comments on this site for awhile, and recently dwelling on the comments to (and from) @Finding Me, and I have something I want to say – I’m still working this out in my own head, so please hold the stones (tomatoes, I can take). It seems that when a man tells us that he doesn’t want to be with us, we deem him “EU.” This title *may* apply in particular cases, but it can’t possibly *always* be the case. Perhaps the man is just our “you’re-sitting-on-the-fence-and-I’m-gonna-hop-off-(or push you off)-and-make-this-decision-for-you” guy. Maybe his actions tell us he doesn’t want to be with us, and we consider this even MORE evidence for EU, when maybe he’s just immature or inexperienced or ignorant. The fact might be that he’s VERY emotionally available…for someone other than us.
Maybe he flat out tells us that he doesn’t want a relationship or see a future with us. Why do we start to analyze the minutiae of his possible reasons or issues or [fill in the blank] of what might have caused him such a serious lapse in judgment as to not want to be with us?! Why do we tell ourselves or our girlfriends who are going through it themselves: “maybe he’s gay?” or “he’s an EU!” or “he’s got issues.” Maybe he’s just a self-aware man who knows it’s not going to work out and he’s also kind enough to TELL us instead of future faking or stringing us along for sex or an ego stroke until we realize for ourselves that it’s not gonna work out.
Do we see a future with every man we meet? No. Does that mean there’s something wrong with him? Or US? No. So why does we get so mental when a man we fancy doesn’t return the feeling? We should be grateful that he calls it quits early on rather than 5 years in. Does it mean there’s something wrong with him, or us? No. We’re not fit to be with everyone any more than everyone is fit to be with us. And if he doesn’t see it working out, he’s RIGHT: it won’t work out! If only due to the fact that a healthy relationship takes two equally invested people. Be grateful for the memo and don’t be yourself up. Like NML says: it ain’t always about you.
Rosenfire
No stone-casting from me, but I think there is a clear difference between someone who is EU and a guy who just doesn’t want to be with us. From my own experience, the guy who doesn’t think it will work but is emotionally available will pull away pretty quickly, leaving no ambiguity. There may be a messy, uncertain period and rubbish attempts at being friends but it shouldn’t drag on. This is because he was emotionally invested and, having decided it’s not working, will want to get out of it because he is disappointed and compassionate for the other person (and no reflection on the person they’re with, some relationships just don’t work). In short, he is unable to BS the other person into thinking there is something there when there isn’t.
The EU on the other hand, sits on the fence and acts in a contradictory way.
rosenfire
We don’t (or we shouldn’t) say EU just because he doesn’t want to be with us. They might SAY they don’t want a relationship, but they’re still there, hoovering up the benefits. It may not be sex, it may just be the friendship or the female attention or – any attention. Not wanting to be the “bad guy” is EU too. Sometimes you just have to be cruel to be kind. I think he has been stringing her along, still is stringing along will continue to do so. That’s why Finding needs to make the decision. They BATHE in this “I’m a good guy” image. And I get the impression this has been going on for YEARS, we’re not talking a couple of months.
It’s not that Finding’s guy is the worst guy here. I expect he DOES believe he’s doing the right thing. I can understand how you see our responses as disproportionate but we’ve been there – it’s the subtlety of it that’s so dangerous.
Also, I don’t see EU as being an insult (for want of a better word), having been EU myself. A lot of women here are exhibiting EU behaviour as well. Not being able to make decisions, fantasizing, throwing your lot in with a man who you KNOW isn’t committed, making excuses for him/her is all EU. (AC is an insult, but deserved). We’re not casting Finding as a victim (though we all feel for her). We know she’s gotta dig herself out of this. He will not finish it. Cos he’s such a good guy. Ha!
Will he, after stringing her along for several years, telling her he oves her, telling her that her movie watching and love of fashion is a problem, suddenly morph into an emotionally available man when he meets a woman who ticks his frankly outlandish boxes? I doubt it.
He may become emotionally available IN TIME but he better get off his high horse and join the rest of us first!
Your last para. is spot on.
rosenfire,
I totally agree with the point you make in general – just cos a guy doesn’t want to be with us doesn’t make him anything but another guy who doesn’t want to be with us. But let me tell you, all the guys who do not want to be are not around anymore! They are not hanging around me, telling me how much they love me but shame they can’t be with me because I like fashionable clothes and watch movies (and the like). It sounds like the run of the mill, as Nat says, excuse filled EU relationship. And if it’s not, why has he not buggered off yet to find his suitable mate? Maybe cos he’s one of those guys who likes to pontificate about his feelings from his seat on the fence where can lap up all the ego stroking while waving his big disclaimer about.
Never mind the disclaimer and just get off the fence! Guys (and women) who do not fence sit don’t need a disclaimer; they just say sorry, this isn’t working for me, and check out of the relationship.
Yes, I’m with happy b.
all the fence sitting, on either side, is a display of ambivalence – the hallmark of the EU. He always has a “reason” (disclaimer) why he can’t get off the fence. What I notice is that we too also have a reason to join him there: our disclaimer is a re-hashed, echoed version of his, so that we sound like this: “I am not checking out of the relationship because he says he is on the fence for x or y or z reason, which (because I am a dreamer) sounds very plausible to me so I am going to sit here getting a sore arse on the fence beside him until his disclaimer becomes null and void and he jumps”
Why do we imagine that so long as he can rustle up any old worn-out disclaimer to wave around that this gives him (and us!) good cause to sit around the fence until one of us loses the will to live? People in bonfide relationships do not have disclaimers and have never needed one. People who are single and available for bonafide relationships are not brandishing disclaimers about at potential partners.
So here’s my conclusion to my evening’s musings on this: The minute you hear a disclaimer, you’ve got a fence sitter. You can go join them – with your photocopy of his disclaimer (cos you’ll be needing to read it every day to remind yourself why your on a fence instead of having a life), or you can walk on.
Brilliant!
Fearless, I laugh when I see your big disclaimer because I was onto this way before I knew about BR. There should be a posting just on this! What are the clauses that lock you in a fence-sitting contract?
He will be amazingly attentive sometimes (see runnergirl discussion above) so that you cling on to his potential.
He will say he can’t commit so that whenever he feels like disappearing, you will not have a leg to stand on
He reserves the right to press the reset button and you, in turn reserve the right to make him feel good about himself when he needs an ego stroke. This does not entitle to the bearer to any love, care or respect.
What kind of contract is this?
rosenfire-
totally, absolutely agree. no tomatoes, no stones, just utter agreement.
in finding me’s case, i wasn’t slapping on the EU label as a matter of reflex. i was reacting to, granted on the basis of little information, the facts that 1) he was still around in some form and 2) she was idolizing him (sorry, finding me, don’t mean to talk about you like you’re not here) in a way that both severely degraded herself while, i would say, inappropriately elevating him. she had completely capitulated her self, power, and position to this guy.
now, part of this is my own … ok, i’ll say it, prejudice. go ahead, throw stones. organized religion isn’t for me. i’m all for faith and spiritual ecstasy, i am very spiritual, and i have an iron clad code of ethics, but i really can’t stand *dogma* and religious rules and the kind of people who cling blindly to them. now, i respect everyone’s right to live how they want, love who they want, do what they want, believe what they want, practice what they want. and i hope the guy in question has a wonderful life that is exactly how he wants it. but for finding me to demote herself because this guy thought she wasn’t religious enough? because he criticized her clothes, her movies, her kissing, etc? no!! maybe she wants to expand her mind and not live in narrowness. maybe she wants to have a lush experience with the person she loves. there is nothing wrong with that, and she shouldn’t think there is. again, i have no wish to be disrespectful to anyone, but what she describes of him doesn’t sound like spiritual life, it sounds like spiritual death. and she needs to learn to stand up for herself, to be her own champion. her laying herself out for him made me want to tell her to tell him to go eff himself.
finding me – if you’re reading this, i should say this directly to you – once you elucidated a bit on the details, it did seem to me that he had been very clear with you and that you just couldn’t hear it. we mustn’t ever throw ourselves after people. sometimes the truth is hard to bear, particularly if it is so far from our own emotional experience. but he is telling you the truth. i meant what i wrote to you about joy – your joy isn’t him, but it is out there. but you will find it by being YOU, not what you think someone wants you to be. be you.
Grace, Karina, cc, SM, usaidit, and teachable:
Thanks for the weigh-ins. I don’t expect this job will lead to more, which is why the decision to move is so weighty. I expect to have to move back to the city I live in now, and find a new place to live, when I finish this contract.
I got a note from the head today offering me even less than expected, and than mentioned in the interview “because I am a PhD student.” Now, the job ad didn’t ask for a PhD, so in my view my PhD, which I will have in hand by the time the contract is done, makes me more qualified, not less. But I’m not entirely sure what he meant by that. He also asked me to accept the job based on a two-line email, after telling me he’d have an official offer letter to me on Friday, then on Monday.
My response, gently, has been that I need to see an official offer before I can properly consider the job. I haven’t raised any of the pay issues yet; I want to wait until I have a piece of paper in front of me.
My spidey senses are up: first, the misleading language in the job ad, then the head not meeting his own timelines, then this surprise figure in the offer. Still, there is the reality of me not having work come January, and the attractiveness of experience teaching my own courses. Will keep you all posted.
Karina: Columbia j-school? Good on you!
I’m following your situation Mag. It’s a tough one. What ever decision you make, it’ll be the right one. Can you finish your degree while working/teaching? Wouldn’t finishing the degree be a priority?
Teaching is a ton of work…and academic hiring is tantamount to magic, witchcraft, and sorcery, in my opinion. When I finished my degree, I applied for teaching positions (part-time) and was hired immediately everywhere. After five years of freeway flying, teaching everywhere for peanuts and working at a convenience store, I went to law school. Of course, after 60k in law school loans, passing the bar, I got a full-time teaching gig paying 1/3 what I could have made a lawyer and was 9 months pregnant. Don’t know if that was the “right” decision. It was and is my decision. Still teaching after 23 years and practicing law as a hobby. That’s just the route I went. But I never felt as though I was sitting on the fence. I did what I needed to do.
My Pleasure Chloe. You’re doing well. We all have a ‘tipping point’ typically reached when the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the fear of change. It sounds like you’ve reached that point. Stay with the NC & a whole new relationsip will open up for you. Primarily to begin with – a relationship with yourself. This has been my experience at least 🙂
Magnolia you’re a highly intelligent & competent woman. Well handled. You’re right not to accept or decline anything until you’ve had a chance to peruse the contract. That job I mentioned, where a similar thing happened to me (but slightly different details, also tried to pressure me into accepting the alternative position before seeing the contract & delayed on sending the contract to me. Employers are not silly. They can see your worth. They probably realise you are going to try to negotiate $ up a tad & are trying to cut short the negotiation phase deliberately. Our most powerful position & time for negotiating is PRIOR to accepting a position in writing. If they really want you they will be willing to negotiate. You’re on the ball though. Good luck.
Hello everyone. I have read each and every comment twice after my initial reply. I have taken everything into consideration. Yes, he is my best friend and yes he did try to stop talking to me slowly and wanted me to find someone else. After having a good night’s sleep, I have been able to think clearly without my needy side getting in the way. The truth is that he doesn’t love me. I’m sorry but if someone loves you and there will be shared religious values and practise but TINY differences in WHAT we prefer which has nothing to do with religion, like liking clothes, movies etc…if he LOVED me, he would compromise on these couple of things and accept that a wife and husband won’t always have the same hobbies and interests. These are just excuses. Looking back, the more I tried to convince him, he would start picking at anything else. The truth is he doesn’t love me. You can’t love someone, pick on minor differences that are nothing to do with religion and hope that you find someone else. These were all just excuses. I will always say that I’m partly to blame. This guy had made it clear, whatever reasons he gave, the point was that he didn’t want to be with me. I should have backed off. I sent a farewell email and I have started my NC from today. I emailed him because he deserved it for the friend he’s been for years. Maybe I should start being my own best friend first instead of fixating on others to be my best friends first and work on my self esteem.
Finding Me, though it is work, I think things will get much better for you from now on. You are not a needy person – it’s just that you have been in an unfulfilling situation. Now you know what you need. Be kind to yourself. Watch your favourite movie, buy yourself some clothes, and enjoy being 100% YOU 🙂
finding me-
good for you. very brave, very honest. you’re going to be just fine. proud of you, and i only mean that in the best way.
Finding Me, I’m so proud of you!
My father was never there for me so I attracted to ACs before and my mother to this day is so negative and puts me down all the time. But instead of latching to anyone else’s care, I really need to start reaching within in and accept that I’m a human being and be there for myself. I can’t choose my parents but what I can do is sort out my own self esteem which IS in my control. Thank you so much for the advice. I can’t thank you enough. I know this is going to be a hard journey for me but I know this sad feeling won’t last forever. Lots of Love, Finding Me. Xxx
Big hugs to you.
aw, baby girl. lots of love back.
My father was EU, too. He never left us, but he was checked out emotionally. My mother was codependent and had terrible self esteem. So I grew up with the idea that men are distant, aloof, disconnected, and women cater to them and feel bad about themselves. My very first crush in grammar school was on a boy who did not like me back. I crushed on him for a few YEARS–beating myself with the “rejection paddle” Natalie mentions. That was the first in a series of very similar situations. I’ve even chosen FRIENDS who were EU and would blow hot and cold, come into my life and be my BFF, only to “dump” me when something/someone better came along. I’m finally now Wide Awake to the pattern in my life, and the childhood history behind where I chose to put my love. Waking up is hard and painful, but there’s also a real sense of power and freedom in it–once the pain starts to fade.
Wide Awake,
Thanks for sharing your story. It resonates with me, and I find it inspiring. Oh, yes, my first crush, and my first crumbs were in elementary school. Thanks for helping me connect the dots.
Snap, I didn’t realize my pattern started when I was so young.
Awesome finding me. You are right on the money. I’d add that when we’ve had ineffectual, or abusive parenting as children, the journey of learning to love ourselves, includes re-parenting ourselves. We can’t choose our parents, or change our childhoods, & many of us are the walking wonded in adulthood, who suddenly realise, we have low self esteem. There comes a point though where WE as ADULTS have to take responsibility for this. Some parents were terrible, others meant well but just got it wrong. Still other factors have nothing to do with parenting but our own temperaments or throw back genetic inclinations. I can see you are taking full responsibilty for yourself but for some of us, it was almost too easy, in adulthood to lay the blame for our shortcomings at our parents feet. I’ve learned that as wrong as mine got it only I can make the changes needed to heal myself. Good on you for making that same decision. I wish you well. Hugs.
Thank you so much! I just read any comments I may have missed. Thank you for all the support. He did call but I didn’t know it was him as it was a private number and then came clean that he was looking to get married to someone else so someone else is in the picture. I wished him all the best and left it. But, he didn’t want me to leave and said he needs time to think as he loves me too which is why he didn’t give her or her father an answer. I paused and thought to myself that I won’t change for anyone but myself and said that I won’t be messed around by anyone. I have left it. Sometimes we really need to take care of ourselves. Always be kind to yourself. I wasn’t kind to myself for years and have battled with a low self esteem but I made peace myself and will start working on myself. I’ve learned now that it’s better to be alone than to settle for someone just because your low self esteem tells you that you might not find a caring person again. Once again, thank you so much for your help. I’m indebted to the helpful comments. Much Love. *Hugs*
Finding
Wow. After all he said, he calls you with … that? Oof, I feel for you. It would be justice if he got neither of you. If I was her father I’d be locking her up until he finds someone else to torment!
But glad we could help. Stay strong. And away from him.
Finding me
Guy is a user, a hypocrite, a liar and a cheat. He has no credibility – not one jot. That you can still refer to him as a “caring person” I find astonishing (and so will you in the due course of time when the fantasy fog clears – unless you stick around to be managed down – or sideways? – from FWB to OW status. I so hope not.) Best of luck. If you know what’s good for you, have nothing else to do with this this man – he is *not* your friend by any measure.
Finding me, OMG, he’s looking to get married to some one else? I think I just fell off the fence with a face plant in the dirt when I read your comment. “But, he didn’t want me to leave and said he needs time to think as he loves me too which is why he didn’t give her or her father an answer.” Yup, so sorry. That’s so typical. If you want to truly find you, the answer is not with him. Okay, I’ll go dig the dirt out from my teeth now as I have been there. Every time I log on to BR, I heal and get stronger. Finding Me, don’t go down the road of OW, although you would now be the OW to the OW. Dear lord, these guys simply cannot be that special. I’m always so grateful for everyone who comments as I see a bit of me in every comment. Finding Me, we will find us and it won’t be by sitting on the fence waiting for him to grace us with his crumbs. I’m writing to me as well as you, more me. Note to self…
I think there is a difference between wise (or prudent) decisions and decisions that feel comfortable and safe, and thus are deemed ‘wise’.
I think sometimes I am just afraid to take a risk, as has been said, and I know that I just need to put myself out there, and I am not talking about skipping the decision making process, etc.
Yes, I think sometimes it is just easier for me to sit on the fence, and justify sitting there without taking responsibility for the blisters on my a$$: it is effortless to blame someone else after all; and I know how to get off the fence; for, I have already designed the solutions; it is just that implementing my designs makes me uncomfortable, and I don’t want to be uncomfortable because I DON’T want to be uncomfortable–it makes me too anxious, besides , I don’t want to deal with having to solve more problems, unless I am in a crisis, and I am forced to get off the fence because someone is going to take the fence, itself, away from me. In a crisis, I function at my best.
BUT…….. until then, I will usually just reach into my pocket and put some more ointment on my a$$, but the problem is that I’m still stuck on this damn fence living a comfortable, safe, “half-life.” So, I guess that is where my fantasies come in; I mean what the hell else do I have to do all day while I’m sitting on this damn fence, but live vicariously through my fine, intellectual, creative mind.
Ok, so I guess I will go write this damn resume…yuk, yuk, spit, “I hate writing resumes,” but I plan to suck it up big time.
Thanks Natalie
Well, he said that techincally we’re not in a relationship so he said he didn’t do anything wrong. But, what hurt me was that he kept using the “I am cutting down contact for you so you find someone else” when all along it was for him. He said that if he stopped contacting me, he would stop loving me and then marry her who is compatible. Nat was right. Once a man makes his decision, it doesn’t matter how much you try to offer solutions or try to fix things, it won’t happen. I’m not staying. I had put an end to our friendship because I knew that it was my low self esteem that was clinging onto the friendship too and nor do I want a man to take long to decide if he wants to be with me or not. I can’t believe that changing myself, adopting a strict lifestyle etc had crossed my mind, just for a man. It’s proving to be difficult but I’ll try my best to not get weak and stick to NC.
Finding Me, I can’t believe this man. Well sadly I can.
You really have a bright future without him. This man says he wants you to find someone else, then says he was thinking of keeping you. He is heartless.
Please keep listening to the others comments you’ve had, print them out and highlight the reasons to stay away from him.
Hugs.
Finding Me, I must admit to being surprised when I read this comment and thought that I was misreading or had you mixed up with someone else. A quick look and I see that, no, it is you that said that this man wasn’t an AC and wasn’t emotionally unavailable. Reading the trail of comments, I can only summise that you must have been with some superduper assholes in the past, if you actually thought that this man and his rinky dinky offering is what you call ” the nicest person I have ever met” and “He’s the most caring person person I’ve come across and my best friend.”
Is this what nice looks like to you? Is this what a relationship with a caring person who is your best friend looks like to you? If he’s your best friend, I’d hate to see what your enemies look like. This man is hugging you one arm, knifing you with the other and engaging in mind fuckery. When someone tells you that you’re incompatible, keeps plucking excuses out of their bum to justify themselves, and talks about marrying someone else, it’s time to ask “Well if that’s the case, what the eff are you doing here talking to me? Jog on!”
You know why he still has airtime? Because in spite of his assholic, manipulative behaviour, you’re there holding on and treating him like he’s nice, caring, and your best friend – this is why the man is so deluded. If you treated him as you found him, he’d know which way was up – on the outside of your life. This man is not asking you to find a solution you can both live with – if he wanted to be with you, he wouldn’t be continuously objecting to your relationship. Stop haggling, stop bargaining, stop listening and stop giving him airtime and space in your life. NC all the way.
I really don’t know what to say because everything you’re saying is right. Everything just seems muddled right now. I have attracted really bad apples before so thought because this guy was always there for me and was polite, that he was the nicest person I had come across. But, lately, I know now as I’m thinking clearly, he hasn’t respected me, wasn’t honest and then put it on me. that it’s for me just so he feels it’s the easier option. I wished he had been straight to the point. I think it was unfair of him to let go slowly and then in the call say that he doesn’t know what to do and to not stop talking to him. I had to end the friendship because I couldn’t cope and didn’t want to hover around in the background whilst he decides what to do. I know that I am feeling low with the NC right now but in time it will get better for me. Thank you once again. Xxx
Just wanted to add that I didn’t know about him trying to cut contact until the day I wrote my first comment here. He had a huge project he was working on and kept saying he’s busy and that we will talk to soon. All he kept saying was that he’s extremely busy. In my head I took his words as the truth and thought that we would talk again like he always did AFTER the project. I confronted him and that’s when he said that for the past few months he’s been cutting contact so that I stop talking to him. And that it was me that was latching onto him eventhough he was slowly letting go, told me I wasn’t compatible and instead of focusing on shared religious values, it was non religious things like how I love clothes and movies etc. Then when he called from a private number he admitted that he went to see someone else for marriage which is why he was cutting down contact with me so that his feelings go away. Even writing this in this comment box is making me feel slightly disgusted and also upset with myself for hanging on the way I did and that changing my lifestyle had crossed my mind. He wanted to hang onto this friendship just because he said he didn’t want to say what if down the line. I had to cut it off completely as it was hurting me. I’m extremely hurt and I know that this pain is temporary.
Finding Me, it must feel so weird to see the truth behind this man who’s felt like your rock, who’s so charming and lovely and attentive and your best friend. Everything changes. I’ve been there with the ‘nice, caring person’. But he has lied to you big time, is clearly manipulative, hasn’t invested any feelings in you, makes you feel like you need him. He treats you like a child or worse, a lesser person, telling you to ‘run along now’ or that he’s protecting you, only acting in your interests (don’t buy this crap!), so patronising but still dangles the prospect of an adult relationship over your head. If you let him break your heart again, it will be worse the next time, don’t let him. Right now you might find it hard to believe that you are not only equal to, but better than him, but you will. This man is an empty vessel, he’s pathetic.
Thank you. This post really made me think about how I am spending my life in limbo … just waiting … not taking action … being helpless … surrendering the ability to make decisions in someone else’s hands. No wonder I felt powerless and weak – I was choosing to make myself powerless by giving away my power because I am terrified of making the ‘wrong’ decision. I always liked when decisions just fell into my lap, made it easy for me. But that’s not realistic and in life I need to learn how to make and stick to my decisions, and most importantly stand behind them without a doubt in my head.
I have a very long journey ahead of me but my gut is at peace, and I feel stronger and more powerful already. I love myself but I have always been jealous of females that are strong and level-headed and have their sh*t together. Now instead I can drop that jealousy and focus on me being that powerful women.
I really need help to decide what to do. I am living with the boyfriend and we have a child together. We have been together 10 years. But a year ago, I met another guy and I think i really like him. We been dating now for nearly a year, and I really do not know what to do. I do not want to hurt my boyfriend by moving out and starting new relationship. I know my boyfriend loves me and will do anything for me, but the feelings are not mutual.
The problem is that I am not sure that the new guy will be able to cope with me and my child. And I do not think he will be as committed to the relationship as my current boyfriend. I really do not know what to do and need help. I know it is wrong to carry on with things as they are now. I really do not know what to do?
INH,
I think on some level you do not find either possibility attractive enough. May be a good starting point is to examine this.
Is you date making any future plans with you? Is there a real possibility? Does the topic come up at all? I have a feeling the topic may not be on the table at all because neither you nor him want anything to change, which is often the case with EU situations, as we’ve learned from BR. Are you just chasing a feeling? I gather from your post that you are very conscious yourself that this feeling you’re chasing with your date is not likely to last.
One thing I want to warn you about is this: limbos are very painful states, and on some level, both men feel this pain as well; they will come to associate you with it, which means, that very likely, you’ll lose both men. And then the reality will hit you. So if you are hoping the limbo will resolve by itself, I have to point out that the likely outcome is that you’ll find yourself to be the biggest loser of the trio.
I don’t want to make black predictions, but I’d suggest one thing: discuss with your date what he wants and plans to do with the situation. And then you’ll know if it’s just a mirage, as I strongly suspect.
Happy B,
yeah I know I’ve given him many chances. I try to leave all the time because I realize his character is just selfish and will always be, unless it’ because I am not his official girlfriend, hence why he is being that way towards me.
Everytime I try to leave he begs for me back, and makes me feel guilty and tries to turn the problem out on me, when it’s him with the problem not me. I know what I want in a man already. Why bother with a woman if you can’t give her what she needs, why is he still here I just don’t get it!
australia, you said exactly what I had running in my thoughts when I read this post. As for me, this post resonated with me most strongly because I had an unfortunate experience with a dating relationship. all my childhood I have (due to ineffectual parenting) had a low self esteem, considering myself highly unworthy despite all the achievements I had (mostly academic and artistic). most guys would not look at me twice and then this one guy gave me his attention. The fact that he was handsome made me accept whatever crumbs he threw my way. our relationship was the classic one that you discuss in this site. am happy to say that I was the one to break off completely. But even two years after this, I am so scared shitless to enter into a new relationship. the feeling of unworthiness coupled with extremely high anxiety levels make me want to run miles in the opposite direction, even though I deeply desire a long-term relationship.
Have always been told of how I muddle things so much, that dating and considering a new life partner are highly stressful transitions to make. Have found some good potential matches in an online dating website but am falling into the trap of liking them but not being able to move forwards to getting to know them (what if they really disappoint me?). The reason I keep sitting on the fence even though all I really want to do is jump off and continuously learn from the decisions I make, is that I do not have any emotional anchor inside me. and do not know how to build one. Can you help point me in the right direction?
(Thanks Natalie, even putting my thoughts out there feels like a cathartic release 🙂 )
Gosh, Natalie’s post are always so spot on. Sometimes too much so. I am so guilty of this sitting on the fence stuff. Actual time: 17 years. So much of my life wasted on someone so undeserving of my time and love. I am happy to report I have at least one huge decision in my life and that is to finally be done with my AC/EUM/EX once and for all. It just got so toxic the last 18 months that left no room for either one of us but out. All the red signs were there, but I didn’t pay attention. I guess I didn’t want to pay attention. It just seemed easier to sit on the fence then to actually make a decision and stick to it. But, I thank God that finally I was able to see him for the jackass he really is and has been to me. So, it’s been no contact since April 26 and overall it feels like a huge relief to be set free of him. I will admit that every now and then I find myself missing him terribly but I almost immediately embrace that thought for a moment and set it free. We did share some great memories after all. I just don’t dwell on them anymore. Thanks Natalie for all your wisdom!!!