Have you ever spent time with somebody who gives amazing date, yet afterwards, it’s crickets? I did that on and off for four years. If you’d met us on dates, you’d be forgiven for thinking we were madly in love. Wearing the face off each other; barely able to keep our hands to ourselves; laughing and putting the world to rights. Sadly, as I mentioned in Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, we’d have The Best Date Ever TM and then he’d go dark. Until next time.
I recently chatted with Margie who’s been ‘seeing’ (I use that word loosely) someone for two years. They have The Best Date/Weekend Ever every 4-6 weeks or so. She thinks they have an amazing connection. She also, however, is very concerned about how she’s on a permanent date with this guy when she technically wants to be in a serious relationship and settle down and have a family. The funny thing is, though, that all they have are these dates/weekends. That’s it. There’s no actual relationship in between. They exchange texts here and there but after two years, even that’s on the wane.
It’s now an established pattern that they can have a date or a weekend and that he will disappear. And she will be right there when he’s looking for entertainment again in the future.
In theory, walking away seems easy. Why would she want to keep seeing somebody who, in the space of two years, has spent the same amount of time with her that someone else would do in the space of a few months?
Margie’s focus on the feelings that she experiences on the dates blinds her to what she feels afterwards. It is a rollercoaster. She harbours a fantasy that one day he’s going to come to her and say, ‘Baby, thank you for your patience over this last two years. I’ve decided you’re the one and I want to be with you every day and live happily ever after. Let me knock you up this minute’. Not.gonna.happen.
When a relationship pops up for a short period and then disappears again, it’s a pop-up relationship (or even pop-up romance).
I have a number of friends who run their own pop-up shops. They don’t want the commitment of running a full-time store, so they temporarily rent a shop or turn their current space into one for a short time. They promote their pop-up, inviting regulars, etc., and they get to sample the joys of retail without too much investment. And, of course, they make lots of sales.
Similarly, there are people who like to sample aspects of a relationship. Think sex, companionship, and the excitement of possibilities. These people get to satisfy their curiosity about someone without having to get vulnerable and intimate. The involvements can be casual relationships. It also, however, covers an ex who boomerangs back into our life promising great change.
If you are involved with somebody who pops up from time to time and gives great date or a few dates before disappearing or reverting to their usual ‘Oops, I did it again. I played with your heart and made out that things would be different this time when they won’t’, you’re stuck in the cycle of the pop-up relationship.
These pop-up relationships feel romantic at the time but they come to an end. And then after a time, probably when the person feels sure that you’re not expecting too much, they hit the Reset Button. Boom, there’s another pop-up relationship and then lather, rinse, repeat.
You end up becoming almost desensitised to how neglectful the involvement is and normalising an unworkable situation.
You forget the confusion, heartache, the self-doubt. There’s the anxiety and wondering what the hell they’re doing, who the hell they’re doing it with, and why they aren’t consistently available.
Notice, also, how these relationships never really develop and deepen.
Well, how can they when you almost have to start over from scratch each time and they keep checking out?
If you believe that you want a committed, loving relationship and instead, you’re attending a pop-up relationship from time to time with someone who’s clearly partial to a spot of Future Faking and Fast Forwarding, you have to ask yourself, as discomforting as it might be, What’s going on with me that I would settle for something entirely different to that? It’s also asking, Where am I bullshitting myself?
If you were being absolutely clear with yourself about what you want, you wouldn’t settle for temporary attention.
There is a level of ambivalence about what you want. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be okay with their ambivalence that shows in their lack of consistency, intimacy, and actually, their general attentiveness. You wouldn’t settle for getting high periodically. Instead, you’d look to enjoy a more consistent, sustainable partnering. You wouldn’t be hiding behind their emotional unavailability.
‘We talk about so much’, said Margie. And yet, they have never talked about where the hell he goes for those weeks or what the hell is going on between them. This is despite having around nineteen opportunities to do so. In truth, Margie’s going out with her rolling stone father and hiding her fear of getting it wrong and her hurt over another relationship in this pop-up relationship.
Romance can seem easier than allowing ourselves to be seen.
A pop-up relationship where, for 24 hours (or however long), we get to pretend that we’re in a relationship and to play out our dreams about this person as well as ourselves, all the while knowing on some level that it’s not real and that they’ll be gone again, protects us from truly putting ourselves out there. We don’t have to share ourselves and put in the level of effort that a consistent relationship would need. At the same time, we wind up in an uncomfortable comfort zone where we give ourselves a hard time about our unmet needs and feel habitually neglected.
Acknowledging the overall cost of continuing to be involved with this person and how it blocks you from being available for an available relationship where you don’t have to wait around to be summoned provides the much-needed wake-up call. It’s also about being honest with yourself about your needs and what’s motivating you to settle for less. When you confront the pain, fear and guilt, the ambivalence and resistance will start to fade, and this person and their fly-by-night ways will no longer seem attractive or normal to you.
Your thoughts?
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Currently breaking up from one of these “two year relationships” I’m on day 3 of it’s death (bawling and various other pain release techniques lol) and this article has just clarified the situation for me even had me aching from the laughter – “plus they sell lots of products” and “oops I did it again……” hilarious! So enlightening, now I just gotta look into the me side of it all to prevent too many more unnecessary heartbreaks.
Dear Dusk Charm,
I left such a “relationship” a little over 6 weeks ago and it hurt like hell at first, but boy oh boy, I feel SO much more relieved (even happy!) now. It will get better. Hang in there! So good of you to have made yourself a priority!
For quite a long while, I’ve been settling for few and far-between ‘pop-ups’ as I’ve not been able to locate more serious/long-term prospects. 🙁
Lauren,
Use the space to get to know you instead of waiting.
I trying to get off that boat myself !
I’m currently at the tail end of a pop-up relationship that I realized for what it was around day 8 of an 11-day trip. I’m now giving him his space to do his thing while I go about mine (I visited him in a city where I have friends). He wants me to keep in touch when I go home, but I’ve told him I don’t want to.
My question(ish): I’m planning to no-contact this guy, but that feels excessive. I haven’t fallen into any of the usual traps for years and I’ll of course be re-reading everything to see where I made my mistakes here. Other than the no-contact and reading over materials, what work should I be doing on myself? And should I be setting any further boundaries before I leave? (We are already no longer intimate.)
Hi S,
No I don’t think no contact is excessive. I have only been able to not get sucked into too much drama with a pop up when I kept it completely non sexual. We were friends, things got flirty, I asked him what he wanted, he replied “sex and friendship”. I said nope. No sex. After giving it some time, I decided to be just friends with him (actual 100% complete platonic). He has a gf now and we barely keep in touch (like a lull in any friendship). His girlfriend knows we are friends and I make a point to mention her and include her in all invites.
Anyhow, that said, it can be tricky when things have passed the friend zone via physical stuffs. If you don’t want to keep in touch, don’t. 100% your choice.
As for what you could be doing, get incredibly honest about what you want in the long run. I realized I can’t healthily deal with casual sex or casual romance. I’d really prefer a committed partner. In the meantime, I practice self-care and make sure my relationship with me is healthy.
That’s what works for me, but we are all different (but watch out for trying to be the exception to the rules). Learn what your values are or what you want them to be, work on them and know that something sustainable isn’t possible with someone who doesn’t share your core values.
Take care xx
Who doesn’t love the feeling of “falling in love”? Pop-up relationships allow us to keep a relationship in stasis at the “falling-in-love” stage. Men are as addicted to that stage as women. Sometimes I think men are more addicted to that stage than women are..because that is the stage where no one has done anyone wrong and we are delighted by each other’s company. Before the demands, and rules, and “have-tos” (have to see my Mother, your mother, pay the dentist), and “shoulds” (should go see my Mother, your mother, pay the dentist) come into play. Before it gets boringly comfortable. But pop-up relationships are not meant to carry the burden of intimate involvement in the non-pretty essentials of intimacy.
I think a sign that we are ready for an intimate involvement is when “boringly comfortable” sounds appealing.
Absolutely brilliant. Thank you. I’m in this pop up relationship myself. The expiration date is approaching.
I agree with your stance that perhaps more men like to stay in this phase, because we can do no wrong. When real life comes roost, all hell breaks loose. They can’t handle. You are ceremoniously knocked off the pedestal.
“Romance is easier than allowing ourselves to be seen.” I melt into this line. What a thing to say! Such writing Nat. You deserve the Nobel. But as we know, not everyone always gets what they deserve for better or worse. And of course I’m not a judge on that, but what you do here is really extraordinarily valuable to so many. BR hasn’t really altogether cliqued for me until the podcasts; I guess I need three hours a day of you explaining to me what I didn’t have a clue about.
First off, I’m wayyyyy too aggressive in communication at times. Going about it all wrong.
Anyhow, it’s all about steady growth and that commitment for the long haul.
Another thought on this is the impulsivity train; I used to get caught up on that so often with men. I’d think, “a tryst might do me good.” Nope. I need something more substantial because I’m tired of being cute and adventurous; I want to be my true, boring self with someone of character for a very very long time.
And headspace is Heaven. Oh oh my. What a peaceful journey. It only took me five years to get on that after you recommended it.
Very true. It’s not as though I don’t know what a good relationship is either, I had one for fifteen years. I did what we tend to do – focused on the good bits while averting my eyes from the less good bigger picture. It’s not even a red flag – it’s a whole shop of the blighters, on fire!
Almondcroissant,
(Oh mah gawd I want an almond croissant from the French bakery here in town right now I could so cry.) Anyhow, I think what we do is common, but, alas unwise. My ex was so fantastically affectionate; he was like this tall lanky teddy bear of a man with a puppy dog face, buuuuuuut, he was also a severe alcoholic. By the time we got together he was in blackout phase of the disease. He said to me at one point “I’m not an alcoholic nor will I ever be.” It was at that point I started to allow myself to see he was never going to change and that he was in a disease process I had no control over. So very sad. So much potential…but we all know how that goes.
I really do hope he fixes himself up and makes it work with his current or finds a steady, healthy partner if he recovers. Sadly, I don’t think he will. But, nonetheless it is none of my business nor will we ever be healthy for each other.
Yep, two years into one of these suckers myself. Sometimes we see a lot of each other, at other points a month or so will pass although the contact remains frequent. I’ve been happy and miserable in equal measure. However, he recently had an accident – and blasted it all over social media but didn’t tell me. I only found out latterly, despite having seen him just a few days before the accident. The hard, daylight truth is that I really don’t matter much to him and I’m not part of his ‘real’ (whatever that is to a manic InstaTweeter) life. Why would I want someone in my life to whom I don’t matter? So I’m now debating how to exit. Unfortunately we also have a work connection so it’s messy to say the least. I should have listened at the start when he said he wasn’t very good at relationships….
Almondcroissant,
We all should have listened from the start or we wouldn’t be here.
Very true. It’s not as though I don’t know what a good relationship is either, I had one for fifteen years. I did what we tend to do – focused on the good bits while averting my eyes from the less good bigger picture. It’s not even a red flag – it’s a whole shop of the blighters, on fire!
I am in one right now, I think, well it gonna be his last strike, if he leaves again, that’s it for me. I am more complicated. (we don’t get physical, he tries, but I not doing that if I am not in a relationship, I explained this last night) I thinks this is why he leaves. I have 7 children and 5 are at home. I have been married twice. It is difficult for me, men don’t seem to want the burden of an already family and a big one at that. I lost.
I’d disagree that it’s mainly men who prefer pop-up relationships. I think it’s my main preference. I have a lovely BF who would probably like something more settled, but the thought of the daily ‘let’s hang out and do dishes together’ boredom of a ‘normal’ relationship makes me feel smothered. I like to go out and do things with him, go on weekend breaks, etc… and not much else.
I’m not afraid to share myself with him, and I’m not afraid to be vulnerable. It’s just that I like my own space, and I don’t feel the need to share all of me with him, all of the time.
I agree with bluelagoon, in both theory and practice. As the old saying goes, ‘familiarity breeds contempt.’ And Elgie’s above term ‘boringly comfortable’ seems like an oxymoron to me – anyone/thing boring causes me discomfort, whether personally or professionally. But maybe I’m just immature…
Hi, I don’t think your situation is the same ‘pop-up relationship’ Nat is speaking about, though, it sounds more like a friendship with sex included (where there’s no pretence about it being romantic, or a relationship). I’m currently in something like this myself, I have a lover who I see weekly, but it’s not a relationship in the sense of being romantic, going on holidays or anything else. We care for each other, but there’s no love here – and that’s okay as it’s clear to us both.
What Nat was describing was more getting an intense high from a relationship, every now and again that remains temporary – this would be extremely damaging long-term; similar to being with a married man, in fact. As you’re looking for more and it seems to be in your reach, almost.
What do you think, am I in the right direction here …
I’m wondering – at what point do you leave the ‘discovery phase’, where taking space and time and not spending every moment together is a healthy, to enter the ‘pop up relationship phase’…i.e. what is the timeframe where you should judge that the relationship is not progressing the way it should?
I’ve drifted into this kind of a relationship with a guy at work. But only this week I’ve decided to get a hold of myself, and deal with the fact that he wants this ‘relationship/friendship’ to go nowhere, and intend to make myself unavailable to him. It’s so hard! I am so very fond of him and he’s been incredibly kind to me in so many ways.
Why have I allowed this to happen? Because I’m lonely. I’m 52 and I’ve been divorced for 13 years. I’m not particularly attractive, my job intimidates men and frankly, single men who are actually interested in me are rarer than hens’ teeth. I’ve spent almost a decade ‘getting to know myself’ and doing all the personal work – it’s just so very hard to face the fact that over a certain age, the men are simply not there. And crumbs have been better than loneliness.
‘And crumbs have been better than loneliness.’
Hear, hear!
Helen,
It’s so tough to read that you don’t find yourself attractive! Are you talking physically and looks?
If that really matters to you and think that’s holding you back from men being attracted to you- you can change a lot about that!
Please take it from a woman in her mid-late 40s who works in the fitness industry and being told numerous times by dates how attractive she is, that it really really doesn’t matter. All you get is attention on a dating app. Then you have to do the work and sort through all the attention and possibly go on dates which left her with a lot of experience after 25 first dates or so but did not yield anything other than a mix of shady guys and EU’s or simply superficial disinterested folks. Superficial attractiveness is not the path.
Ask yourself what being attractive means to you, just like being successful at work means to you?!
To me it means to have enough money to take care of myself and to go to bed being at peace with what I do.
You have a lot of negative beliefs that don’t cater to your values (having a genuine fulfilling relationship with someone else)
Nat has a lot of posts on healthy self love and healthy self concepts and I know it’s tempting to blame loneliness for our longing to belong but it actually is a state of mind and unless you can find in you that you already belong because you have found people (soulpod as Jeff Brown states) and activities that give you validation and belonging you will most likely look for love in the wrong places and settle for crumbs.
You are so worth it at ANY age. It’s just a number and compatible men might be far and few but it’s not impossible.
Wishing you strength!
Yes they aren’t there because they all want to do is bang younger women. I am mid 50s and feel the same way but won’t do crumbs. It doesn’t matter if we are young at heart, attractive in many ways, look after ourselves, we cannot and will never be able to compete with young skirts. The men themselves? Well on an ego trio most likely and being used as a meal ticket. You have to question the emotional maturity of men who have a predilection for much younger women/girls and I’m talking decades younger. I have no desire to be a nurse to an older man and my own father is still alive thankyou so no Daddy issues. Any woman who would date be banged by a man old enough to be her father as some do have issues themselves and no I would not want a man who’d been there as you would always be looking over your shoulder wondering when the trade in would happen. So guess I’ll remain single which isn’t what I want since I haven’t had a relationship since my divorce years ago but the more I hear horror stories from women by age the more I am realising that I can have a full life on my own.
Ok any advice on this? I’ve been seeing someone since early January and after about a month in he told me there is another woman that he had started seeing before me…and he’s still seeing her as of now. He said he’s not interested in meeting anyone new. At the time I was still seeing someone and I had told him that – but recently I also said that I was feeling ready to move to the next level…exclusive…and he said he wasn’t ready.
We now see each other 2-3 times a week and I hear from him every day via text. I’ve told him I’m not interested in sex until we’re exclusive but we do a LOT else and spend the night together a couple times a week. He said that’s a good idea and he’s fine with that. We’re both late 40’s so not looking for kids but I do want a relationship that is leading to long-term.
So – I’m just confused as to how to deal with this…he’s being honest about where he’s at…he’s showing up in lots of good ways…but he’s also not ready to either be exclusive or let go of this woman (not sure which is more important – not sure if it matters which). I’m starting to feel ready for more…I can’t tell if my fear is red flags or impatience. Part of me feels like it’s ok at this stage in our lives to ‘take it slow’ – and it does feel like it’s growing. We’re just shy of 3 months now….I’m thinking of opening up to starting going on other dates again even though I am wishing we would move to another level.
Just kind of confused as to how I feel…I’m ok being patient if I’m also out there giving myself the potential to meet someone new I guess. Any thoughts?
Lou,
I am so put off by how much attention your ‘honest’ guy needs. Why are you not put off by that? It sounds like you have developed feelings and are trying to suppress them until he ‘catches up’. Only happens in movies. His actions tell you everything: He wants to keep seeing this other woman. There is nothing confusing about this and just because you are not having sex, doesn’t mean you are not involved. And it’s confusing you and hurting you that he doesn’t reciprocate. I would feel the same And i would not want that type of behavior in my life. How long do you wNt to sell yourself short and tolerate that?
And even if he agrees to exclusivity, can you trust him not needing more attention in the near future when he is not entertained enough? Flush this loser- he is not special at all- he is predictable and it’s not for great things to come. Sorry.
In the end it all comes down what truly works for you and is healthy.
Lou,
I was in a similar situation in my last relationship where he only told me he was (casually) involved with someone else after we started having sex. This is not honesty. It is selfishness, lack of empathy and cowardice. He denied you your right to make an informed choice and then told you what he was up to so he could transfer the blame onto you. I suppose he is being honest when he says he does not want an exclusive relationship. An honorable man would have made this clear from the start.
When someone tells you they don’t want a commitment, you have to take them at their word. This man has freed himself from all expectations which is exactly the kind of relationship he is looking for. As long as you stay with him you will continue to be disappointed. This isn’t about whether or not he is a good person. It’s about whether or not he is a good relationship candidate. He isn’t.
Amen, Stephanie.
If he’s not going to commit to you, I certainly would not commit to him. If you can handle multiple dating, I would do that or if not, I would leave him. It sounds like you want a ltr. You’re gonna have to make the hard decisions to facilitate that.
These men…
With online dating, it’s never been easier for the average Joe to put together his own personal harem. But they don’t really want their “women” out there casually dating as well. Oh no. That wouldn’t do at all. Nun. Uh.
So they get us all emotionally invested so we stay at home knitting hats until summoned into the unholy presence of his Assclowness. And waste our valuable time and self-esteem.
Good grief!
‘he’s showing up in lots of good ways…’
But still seeing another woman at the same time????
Sorry, I don’t get this, basically you’re in the other woman role – no judgment on my side, I’ve been there unfortunately though would never ever EVER do this again.
From your message you sound like a kind person, ready to see good in this guy; but being honest is not the same as acting with integrity or care (love/care & respect). It also sounds like you’re falling for him, and he of course knows this.
If you’re also seeing other men, I so go for it, but if you’re not and falling in love with him, ask yourself why it’s okay for you to be with a man who is having sex – and it sounds like a relationship if it’s being ongoing for months – with another woman at the same time as you.
(Again this isn’t coming from a moral high-ground position, as I mentioned in another comment my current situation is with a lover – I’ve told him that I’m not seeing this as long-term leading to marriage and thought about meeting other men – BUT and it’s a big but we don’t see each other three times a week, it’s once a week if that, with no communication really outside setting up our meetings. He hasn’t met my son, or my friends and has no expectations that he will. And there are no really deep feelings involved on either side and if I did meet another man, I’d tell him and immediately end it).
Be careful with your heart with this man, I don’t think he’s acting in a way that shows you much kindness to be honest. Good luck.
I have been on and off with a man for 5 years I have posted many times on your fb page before. I allow him back in after months of him blocking me, ignoring me, and completely cutting me off after months of blowing hot.
The most recent blocking came after he thought if I got pregnant maybe he would want a real relationship… like one that he would want to stop sleeping with other people… and would want to see me more than his limit of 2 times a week.
I always think he is gone and this time is no different. Everyone else believes once again he will try to come back.
I am a successful, beautiful woman who is divorced from a cheater 8 years before this. I have seen two therapists and I still allow him back and then allow this to destroy me every time he leaves again
I am at 22 days post the last blocking and I am having a really hard time again.
I think I am going to pull out your book and re read it.
Jax,
He sounds like a narcissist. You should read the blog site Knowing the Narcissist. Until I came across this site I never knew there were different classes and cadres of narcissists.
I think a lot of these pop relationships probably involve narcissists and we are just sources of narcissistic supply.
Leave him, it hurts like hell and then some but on the plus side you gain freedom, peace of mind, self esteem and respect and also in time you can meet someone else. CUT him off facebook, phone ect. I wasted 7 years -can’t get it back. Plenty of men on planet free yourself to meet one. You can survive without him using you for what he wants from you- get out ! peace x
This post (and some other things in my life) made me realize that although I say out loud to the world about how I want a real, official, committed loving relationship… in my heart I am a pop-upper. I behave like that with family and friends, and I bet I would be like that in a relationship…
Sometimes I wish I would just wake up and have all this sorted out… I did so much self-work only and feel very stuck. I feel like I was so EU that I wasn’t even able to see that I was EU… (at least now I know)
There are several stages of learning. It goes something like this:
1. Unconscious incompetence. (blissfully (or miserably) ignorant of where you’re going wrong and either not caring about the possibility you might be going wrong, or blaming it all on being somebody else’s fault).
2. Conscious incompetence. (knowing your faults/mistakes and trying to correct them but not yet achieving success with that).
3. Conscious competence. (where you can achieve success but you have to work hard at it and watch you don’t slide into bad habits).
4. Unconscious competence. (where you’re successful but it’s instinctive behaviour that gets you there, because you’ve worked so hard on your past mistakes that you’ve changed and now have new instinctive habits).
I’ve been reading these blogs for a few years now. I think it’s time for me to show face and say that, they keep me grounded even when I keep messing up with all these dirt bags I’ve dealt with all my life . I have 2 beautiful boys, single mom and I’m the only provider for them. Now here it goes, the only type of men I meet are unavailable, liars, cheaters and the list goes on. My recent encounter was a guy I met online. We spoke for 2 weeks and then he drove out to see me . He lived 40 minutes away , we met had a drink and he left because he didn’t know how trafic would be at night? Anyway I didn’t pay mind to that dumb ass excuse . We kept talking through out the week and made plans for me to go see him next. Well, here is the thing, I’ve been celibate for almost 2 years and he knew about this. I already knew this guy wanted some. I didnt think he would just be blatantly all over me when I got there . We had a few drinks and even slept on the same bed . He kept touching me all over , asked me if I wanted breakfast??? Really…??? I was starving. Well needless to say that 3 week Romance went “poof” as soon as I hopped in my car and just texted him that I don’t think I was the girl for him . He answered “really”? LOL I dodged a big bullet this time .
It’s always a feeling of overwhelming sadness when you get to the point and realize “the men are just not there”. This is truth for many, a reality. In this day and age, you have to compete with those younger and social apps makes it easy for someone to find the /bigger better deal/.
I would suggest to everyone, no matter how forlorn, to prepare and envision your life to be alone. Alone and as alone as one could be, and if that should change, then be happy. And the crumbs from the men are just a distraction from your life and the loneliness. It’s inevitable that they will vacate and drop you from whatever heights they temporarily lifted you to.
For some of us, we were robbed fully of our right to choose. My EU tried to do the same to me. Pretended to be single, was careful about what he shared, only for me to find out through diligent searching that he was not only in a long-term relationship BUT married. It was only at this point when the “truth” came out and he promised never to lie again. LOL.
Of course he could freely admit this now because I had found out on my own what he never would have shared or had the courage to do so. Thankfully, it never went further than a surface friendship with 0 dates and 0 intimacy. I knew something was amiss from the beginning thanks to this website.
As someone else said, I’m so alert and vigilant in checking for the signs and making sure my fences are guarded tightly…that I don’t think I could ever find someone now. And that is bittersweet to think that I have woken from my stupor to be able to see people for what they are, only to find that there really isn’t any options out there. How quickly I am able to spot the signs and sure enough I haven’t been wrong yet since becoming a daily reader. Some of the EU that I have screened out have went out to ruin other lives in my outside circle.
I feel sad for their victims, but also glad for me that I was able to spot so soon what they could not. And no, I don’t believe that I could ever find someone now. My only hope would be another reader of this site that would compatible with me! Maybe we could have our own meeting site here. At least we would know we are self-improving and share similar stories.
These pop-ups were once what I had before coming to this site. And silly me that I actually, too, thought they were real. The rush of emotions, feeling special for 24 hours (or less), and left in suspense for hours-days-weeks until the next time. For the old me, it was good enough.
It seems that if you state clear your intentions and expectations, they also are equally aware that you are on to them as they (somehow) were aware that you were once vulnerable prey. They just run for the hills.
@Release&Heal
Don’t give up! Is it strange that I feel the same way sometimes, and I am 33?
I think once your know yourself, everyone you meet isn’t “it” until they are. Which sucks, because it seems like some kinda unnecessary gauntlet, but not everyone can be “it”, or “anything” really when you know you.
Thanks! I am younger than you and feel the same. It’s just reality
This business of using other people’s weaknesses, emotions, or kind, forgiving nature against them in order to get one’s needs fulfilled is just disgusting. Talk about a character flaw! Sheesh!
I have taken this nonsense behavior personally in my recent EUM experience and it was so destructive. Being “on call” for some ridiculous man like some kind of penis junkie?? WTF happened to my self-respect?!! I am so ashamed of myself. I can’t believe I accepted this for the few months it went on.
There were red flags galore just flying high all over and even once a sign that read “The bridge is out!” but I barreled right on through.
Getting over my disappointment in myself is the most difficult part. I let myself down big time. I went into dating after divorce without knowing what I wanted or what my values were. It was like being teenager again.
I was very naive and got burned pretty bad. But I gotta forgive myself and learn the right lessons here. No contact certainly and I haven’t found it that difficult over the past several months. He tried to call once after I broke it off but I didn’t pick up. I just remember all the pain and confusion over the on/off behavior and poof! My desire to talk to him disappears like smoke on the breeze.
Because of this blog, I know what sort of man he is and he’s not the sort of man for me. I’m no longer confused. Thanks Natalie and to all who share their stories. It’s been a huge help and better than therapy to me!
Hi Happyhesgone and other BR ladies (and gents),
Think I’m dealing with a ‘Mr Pop-Up’ right now, you all the type……
Messaged, then he asked for my number, then we texted loads, then we met up. Had a nice time from the afternoon into the wee hours, including a ‘romantic’ walk along the Thames, kissed. He drives for his job so he sent me photos of different parts of the country. Had a road trip to the countryside, kissed when we got back into town and outside my place when he dropped me home. Next day he sent me photos from our day out. Well, that was then and this is now…… Since then (two weekends ago) it’s been texts only (and now not particularly interesting ones at that).
So, unless this guy ups his game significantly and we make some proper plans for face-to-face activities again, I am going to tell him to ‘sling his hook’. Not interested in just chatting with him via texts, don’t want him as a ‘mate’ (I HAVE mates, thanks), nor do I intend to be his ‘reserve’ (always there with an ‘ego stroke’ for him). Nope, not me. No chance!
Clock is ticking, I am perfectly happy to send him off to ‘time-waster island’ if he doesn’t step up sharpish……. That’s the way all of us need to be for the sake of our self-esteem (and our sanity). Stay strong ladies (and gents), don’t put up with any of their nonsense! 🙂
That’s ‘you all KNOW the type……’ Soz. 😉
A few of my “gives good date” then ghost guys have been that kinda pop-up romance. There is a rush of excitement with all the newness, I totally get that. But I am looking for more after that.
The usual: Meet online. Send a few messages. Meet up, have a few drinks, food. Head to a record store, thrift shop, bowling, club, whatever. I had a good time. They say they did and that they’d like to again soon….then poof. Or that ambiguous “busy” text when I ask to meet up again. FLUSH.
Old me would be devastated for weeks, but new me can see it for what it is. Sure, I get disappointed, but my life isn’t ruined. I have discovered that I can have fun, meet people, even have sex, and not let it color my judgement of what is best for me. I never would have thought I could do that without this blog, or putting myself out there with my newfound boundaries.
I’ve been dating over a year now, online, going out to social events to meet people, hitting the bars, ect. Similar results with each avenue, but there are many roads to love! I’m riding that highway on a unicorn because that’s the kind of awesome I deserve! Haha! 🙂
Too many men treat dating like they are shopping for a tin of baked beans in a supermarket. Doesn’t matter what make or price as long as it is a tin of baked beans they aren’t selective. That is not to demean any ladies here what I am saying is that they don’t know what they want but they’ll try all the same. I blame the internet and social media for the demise in dating and attitudes which result in not treating people well. Men don’t want to commit least they be missing out on something better as they see it but they are really like kids in the candy shop with the scope of the internet.
Now I have core values and boundaries that are essential to me in a man and criteria that I need. If they aren’t there it is no go. For many men as long as we are XX chromosome and have a willing vagina that is all they need and as for criteria in a lover/partner/companion there is nothing more as they don’t have a clue. I have been told I am picky but the answer is no I am worth so much more. I am not willing to accept any sh1t from a man just because he is XY and has a penis and I’d like male company. He can go and play his games elsewhere.
I know of a young woman who is being played by the older man she is with because he has been trying it on with me and he never acknowledged her presence. She is unaware of the douche he is. Furthermore he didn’t light up when he mentioned her which says a lot. He hasn’t had any response to his various moves from me for the months he has been trying it on and now I know he has a partner he won’t.
So any more interactions will reference his partner so he gets that I am a one man woman not to be overlapped or be the OW. I suspect that one of two things will happen a) he loses interest or b) he ups the game ‘cos his ego won’t take failure in hitting on a woman and getting no response. Time will tell but there are red flags galore that I am aware of already.
I want to be the main event not the side show and I sure as hell don’t want to be viewed as an option, a fallback or treated like a tin of baked beans. I have characteristics I want a man to see as unique and be drawn to me over other women. If I fall in love then it will be the old fashioned way before sex. If not then so be it there are worse things than being alone and I have female friends who are now recognising that the games men play aren’t worth the hassle but good female friends trump all.
Hi, going through the same thing here with an EU. He definitely chose to up his game after even saying he was going to leave me alone. That did not last even a week! He’s determined to land me because I guess no one else has ever dared tell him no. Acts jealous and possessive despite me never even give him the time of day.
Be careful!
Hi
I just found this blog and am hoping someone can help me gain some perspective. I was involved with this guy and sent him some R-rated photos. Stupid me! He told me he would delete them at the end of the relationship.
We broke up back in January (he dumped me) and I haven’t talked to him since. We were together for three years with the last one being pretty rough. I want to ask him to delete the pictures if he hasn’t already but am feeling a little torn. I was planning to wait another month until my feelings are less raw but now I’m starting to feel like I just want to get it over with. Part of me just wishes I could let it go but I can’t. What should I do?
Hi Lolly,
To be honest (and this is a mans opinion) it wouldn’t matter if you asked him to delete them or not. If he has any morals whatsoever he would respect you as a person and would have deleted them already. Even if you did ask, how would you know if he has or not?
Personally, I have had X rated photos of exes, and they of I. But when those relationships have ended, those pictures were the last things I wanted on my phone! And I’m sure they have too! I have learnt my lesson since then!
If he does anything disgraceful with them like posting on websites or using them against you, contact the police as this is a crime.
Sun,
Send an email request, something like this:
“If you haven’t done so already, please remove any remaining online connections to my identity including name, contact information, and images. I have done the same on your behalf. Thank you.”
This way you have date/time documentation of your request.
Look at it like a basic, business request, no need for emotions.
Good luck!
Comment above was meant for Lolly, oops.
Lolly,
Please don’t berate yourself. If he does something sketch with those pics, it says nothing bad about you and everything horrrid and ick about him.
Mac,
Excellent advice.
This post could not have come at a better time for me (somehow, Natalie’s posts always do…). I spent a miserable night last night when I realized my own version of a “pop-up” had been going on for four whopping years (well, one year was almost all no-contact). Somehow, I just didn’t realized how much time had actually passed. It looked so obviously hopeless now. I feel so humiliated for letting myself be yanked around for so long. It creeps me out to think what his real perception of me is.
I think he goes in cycles of being smitten with me, to then discarding me (with what also feels like thinly-veiled disdain). He’s in the discard cycle now, and my gut tells me this is permanent.
The thing I have the hardest time with resuming NC is that he’s in nearly all my weekly social activities (in fact, one he begged me to come to). These activities are all with good friends of mine, and I don’t really have many other social orbits to turn to instead. I wish I could just pull a no-show this weekend, and take a permanent raincheck on all my social engagements, but I get so much pressure to come hang out from everyone that I feel like a huge jerk just dropping out of sight. The friends have no idea this has been going on with him and I would rather die than give that as the reason. In addition, it would be mean my life would be pretty lonely for a while, as I’m also currently at work by myself.
I feel like I should just bite the bullet and cut all ties that keep me anywhere near his orbit, but lord it’s so hard to face that break alone.
You’ll be fine, don’t worry about the ‘being alone’ time: it’s necessary. Maybe you’ll need to make some new friends and find new activities, something to think about in the future, but for now I’d recommend totally cutting all contact (and that includes stopping going to activities where he’d be, and stopping all the online messaging etc).
You need to make your message to him extremely clear and this means totally removing yourself from any possibility of seeing him, or having contact with him.
It might seem ‘extreme’ but it isn’t, it’s an act of self-love and self-preservation, especially since his treatment verges on the sadistic. I was particularly concerned when I read this:
‘I think he goes in cycles of being smitten with me, to then discarding me (with what also feels like thinly-veiled disdain). He’s in the discard cycle now, and my gut tells me this is permanent.’
This is so unhealthy, and if you have internalised this message (and are able to write it with ZERO judgment of his behaviour, ZERO anger at his cruelty) shows the extent of the damage.
I’d recommend you keep a copy of this comment and keep it somewhere. When you are finally out of this relationshit you will be shocked that you were ever in such a harmful situation and somehow accepted it as normal (I mean look at the way you wrote this as if his behaviour followed some kind of logic?)
I have been there. I was in an abusive relationship on and off for four years, where I completely lost my sense of self. When I started to really end it, after trying to ‘so.many.times’ I suffered trauma reactions, akin to panic attacks.
Now a few years on, I’m shocked and what I experienced with this man, but the only way to achieve this was to completely and utterly cut him out of my life (and have experiences with other more normal men).
He still tries the re-appearance thing, but I have absolutely no interest, thank God.
Look after yourself and cut the ties. Good luck.
I agree — you need to cut out of social contacts for now. This idea that you are a ‘jerk’ for bowing out of your group for a few weeks / months / forever – is in your head. If anyone guilts you, they are fools. IF you cant truthfully tell people about him, then you aren’t that close to them anyway.
I had a social group of which I was a big member and so was the ex, and when the de-connection happened (hardly a split, as he worked very hard to reduce expectations to his standards), I needed him out of my head space. It was hard but I dropped out of a number of regularly scheduled activities. Sometimes I would go to every third or fourth invite only, sometimes I would go if I knew ahead of time that he wouldn’t be there – but yes I consciously made myself decide not to. And it was hard. And a part of me wanted to keep going to keep my connection with him, and yet I knew that I needed distance. After that for a while, I would even consciously tune him out if he was sitting right in front of me talking to someone else.
You have to work really hard at it because this person has their claws in you. The day will come when you’re free – you’ll still have to be vigilant. He triggers something in you, something hungry and grasping and desperate [otherwise you wouldn’t let yourself be treated so shabbily. He will always do that as long as you give him the chance].
What was interesting was that as I took distance from our social group, it was like other groups opened up to me on their own. I didn’t really do anything, I had just started the distancing and hadn’t started reaching out to others, but I still found that the universe just sent me some other distractions. That helped.
By saying no to social events where you know you will be exposed to a toxic person you are; 1) telling yourself that you are weak and that you need to take care of yourself, which is good to acknowledge, 2) putting your needs ahead of other people’s opinions of you, and 3) putting your core emotional needs ahead of shallow social needs for a while. Its a form of discipline and commitment toward yourself.
The trouble is that Margie probably never sat down at the beginning of this pop-up affair and said what she was looking for. This kind of arrangement is fine if both parties want it, but it needs to be discussed near the start. Unfortunately, I think many folk are a bit scared about having The Chat be as they don’t want to sound pushy and are maybe scared to hear a no, but it’s the best way to see if you’re both on the same page.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with saying that you’d like something to develop. And if the other person isn’t then it’s far better to know sooner so you can meet someone else than to let them call the shots while you hope he/she will find out they want the same as you. X
I was in one these relationships and it lasted for over 1.75 years. About 1.25 years into it I woke from a dream and a thought popped into my head that he was a narcissist, he had all the signs, but I persisted and every time he failed to respond in a normal fashion, I had to remind myself that he was incapable.
Then I had to ask myself why I was still in it. Over the next few months I did some self help exercises that raised my self Esteem, but it’s like there was such a grip, I couldn’t let go. Then I read an article about no contact and was led to your blog. I purchased some of your courses and then bought “No Contact” on Audible and then eventually Mr. Unavailable and Fantasy books. Listening to those books on repeat changed my life.
I have been out of that relationship for almost year. I love myself, learned that I had been codependent from childhood. I am a new woman. I’m patiently waiting for a healthy relationship, and living and loving my life.
2016 was the best year of my life. Your books changed the entire direction of my life. I never understood that I was emotionally unavailable. That cycle has been broken. I could write a book about it. Thank you Natalie, I love you. The best is yet to come.
So I’m interested in your opinion. Recently, I was set up by my mother and her friends. The guy is very attractive, successful, fun to be around, etc. However, there are just a couple tiny problems. 1. He lives in the northeast coast of the US, while I live on the southeast coast. He’s only in town for a couple months. Of course we’re enjoying company and getting to know each other. I’d be happy keeping it light, knowing he’s leaving. I sense he wants more. He’s told me he wants a serious relationship. He wants to take things slow, but also asks what my 3-5yr plan is for the future, etc. 2. He’s been married twice. His first married only lasted a month. He referred to it as his “fake marriage,” which bothered me because he said they’d dated 3yrs before. He finally admitted they were young, right out of college which I understand. Still, why a 3yr relationship and then a month long marriage? He said they mutually agreed to divorce.Then his second marriage, his “real marriage,” only lasted a year. She was running around on him. He said they went to counseling & “really tried to work it out,” but she didn’t stop the behavior. So they divorced. Now, as mentioned, he seems great on the surface. We get along great. Plus, our families set us up so there’s added pressure there. But, long distance relationships aren’t ideal, especially just starting to get to know someone. You set the reset button everytime you leave and get back in town again. But then, what about the two marriages? I’m not a judgmental person, but these two particular short marriages and the way he talked about them make me concerned. Is this a case of a pop-up romance that needs to be over already? Or is there too little to know for sure just yet?
I would smile a lot, but watch him carefully and take notes. His past history is not all the fault of the ex’es and he has to take some responsibility for what he did in the relationships he blew up.
Nothing wrong with keeping it light, but keep your options open, and don’t become exclusive until you have seen his true colors for sure. Hope it works out for you.
Thank you Adele!
Eb,
I could be reading you all wrong, but it sounds to me like you are trying to talk yourself into this relationship. Just remember that not wanting to be in a relationship with someone is a good enough reason to call it off. You don’t need to justify not wanting to be with someone. It doesn’t matter that he is a nice guy and your family likes him. If YOU are full of doubts it is only going to get worse once you are trying to make it work long distance.
Thank you Stephanie!
You know what? The pop-up thing seems like a more fun, less high maintenance version of EU assclownery that is awfully difficult to put in check without a serious convo with self and possibly friends (or a forum here) to put it in perspective and see it more clearly. And from there decide and act upon what you want/need in a serious, organized, non-chaotic way.
Pop-up relationships seems pretty harmless unless you want more and know it, otherwise.. . .?
It’s awfully hard to *connect* connect so for me popup kind of behavior got a pass b/c it seems friendly. Like OH! That person remembered to get in touch, cool! You know you’re going to have fun, so why not? I had a LOT of regular friends like this (meaning:girlfriends, too) — on the periphery, never digging into intimacy, always up for a blitz of “dinner” or “grabbing drinks” or whatever, very sporadically. Seems harmless right?
It is, until you want MORE, more. . .like, knowing you can call the person when sh1it hits the fan — which you can’t b/c you’re only at the having fun stage only and always.
I personally did the fade out on that type of stuff and/or they disappeared permanently on their own when I made it clear I wanted more of a presence from them.
With men? If we have all this fun and then nothing after say a week (two if somebody died or something), it’s an automatic delete of their number from my phone — kind of like automatic no-contact if things don’t progress in a way that I think is reasonable proportionate to the intensity of the previous pop-up time.
It’s strange to be more selective and more inclined toward intimacy though — now that I’m less inclined to hang on to people, it’s almost too extreme. To the point that, in real time, if I sense quickly that the person isn’t “open” or “present” or “available,” I literally forget them! Like, I can’t remember their names if I run into them later, sometimes within a conversation if I just met them and can’t be bothered!
So? I’m not sure that the pop-up thing is all bad — b/c if you’re not using those intimacy skills on the regular, it might be use-it-or-lose-it — I don’t know for sure, but that’s the way it seems so far. . .after one heck of a lot of deleting.
Chemicalsister, not sure it’s any more fun than the usual EU buffoonery but I do agree that it’s an extension of this type of BS behaviour.
These clowns think they’re getting smarter! Thank God for BR really, it’s saved myself and others a whole lot of aggro over the years. ????
Rachel thanks for the perspective.
It’s hard for me b/c my phone doesn’t ring *at all* now that I’ve rejected *all* of the blow-by, floaty, dragonflylike, non-relationships, both romantic and non, by supposedly setting higher standards.
It’s hurtful, but I am mostly at peace with the situation(s) for what they are. I *think* what I mean is more like pop-up relationships are fun in the moment for what they are — but maybe we can all do ourselves a favor by not trying to make those more than what they are at that particular time with that particular person.
If you want more in general and from that person, let pop-ups go, probably — but I don’t think it’s necessarily the light, slightly EU pop-up thing that’s the problem if it’s fun and not hurting your or their feelings in any way.
If a person is stringing you along and trying to make the relationship seem “intimate” BECAUSE they pop-up once in a while, that’s different. That’s *probably* no good — but depends on the circumstances. If he’s popping up as a way to test you sexually(possibly even emotionally), that’s obviously a cause for concern.
I have friends that I truly love (one I would so jump if he were single — possibly a cautionary tale waiting to happen, don’t know yet) that are probably technically pop-ups — they are ways away in other countries. But I don’t love them any less by accepting that all they can offer is popping up when we happen to be in the same place (country!) at the same time. It’s been made clear to me that the “intimacy” can’t be extended through technology (email, skypes, etc.) but for that reason I (try to) make the most of every moment in real time when it happens. I try to be as open and present and intimate as possible at those times, and try not to be overwhelmed or overwhelming. Whether that is successful or welcomed or understood? Don’t know, except making reciprocal effort seems worth it.
I’ve even lost a few friends and lovers by not recognizing (soon enough) that they simply weren’t capable — be it time, values, EU, some combo of all of that — of more than being a pop-up. Relationships aren’t all meant to be enduring and intimate — some are just, well — meant to be pop-ups.
Seeing someone once a year for 20 years and once a week over six months is about the same, in my opinion. The person’s capacity for going deeper isn’t going to change over time — but the willingness to give a damn just a little, enough to pop-up, even — might. It takes a while to know what the deal is.
So, I’ve come to accept that SOME people? Are only for, say, acknowledging and checking to see if they and I are still alive around holiday season, and not for calling upon if I fall down a flight of stairs or whatever — unless it’s around Xmas! Maybe they’d “pop-up” with some holiday cheer if I were indisposed during Xmas.
And there it is — pop-ups! Make it work for you in some way, if not, snip it in the bud.
Okay you’re mind can play tricks on you in the dating world. In college, I was obsessed with two men. I was convinced they were the opitome of pure physical perfection. I came across some old pics of one who I was convinced broke my heart (we never even went on a proper date) and looking at the pictures now near a decade later, his appearance repulses me. He looks sickly and mean and smirking. In these pics, there is a young man who I thought liked me around the same time as my obsession with the other guy was in full effect but brushed him off as creepy bc he stared at me sometimes (but would shyly look away) and now in my current self find him endearing, warm, sweet looking, and attractive looking. People if you feel bad about yourself inside, your mind can play tricks on you with this stuff!!
Nat, can you do a post on obsession?
And I hate that every time
I write you’re instead of your it kills me inside.
Not really, I don’t care.
Don’t worry about it SC, we all make miskates. 😉
Thank You 🙂
I am 50 she is 27. We have been seeing each other every weekend since 2014. She is an engineer for a company 2 hours away. I am a Professional with a business that affords me freedom with my time and flexibility. She has met all my family and friends and had keys to my house and can come and go. However, I have never met her roommates or her family or Co workers. I have nothing at her house. No keys. No incumbent in her life during the week. She texts me every morning. We have a great life in weekends as we both enjoy dirt bike racing and our 2 dogs. Yet… I still have no involvement in Hey life during the week. Dinnertime we met mid week and stay in a hotel. Even when we race at a track code to get house we still rent a hotel room… Her father came to visit a year and half ago and I eat never invited to meet him. I have never been mentioned in any of Hey suicidal media accounts… No pictures of us.. No mention of me when she does great things that I help her with… What’s more is I do most an the work on the dirt bikes and trailers and driving.. Etc… She helps where she can.. But its far from the labor ensue efforts I do… I have tried ending the relationship several times only to have her refuse and argue the course… One time to the recent of her screaming at me and hitting my arm… In the post heart I have begun to shut down… I am slow to answer her texts. I am not excited to be with her… I feel embarrassed if front of friends and relatives with her… I feel used and played… I ended it and within 3 days she was at a race event we go to most every weekend with a man she eat introducing as a CO worker. I knew that as I shut down on the relationship someone else would most likely step in as she is bright beautiful and energetic. A sorority girl from Georgia Tech gets lots of attention. Now I feel like a huge sucker for investing all of myself and my life In her… I can’t eat. I can’t sleep… I’m numb. But I’m intent on learning about myself in an this even at 50… She put in a good debate and argued time and time again that she spends every weekend with me.. She texts all the time… That she loves me.. But in the end I found myself co dependant wanting something that may want going to develop to the logs I wanted with her… And I had to admit that the age gap and the difference in life experiences and ideals were real… It was as if my optimism became fantasy and pessimism became reality… Thanks for letting me share…
Edited my phone typos..
I am 50 she is 27. We have been seeing each other every weekend since 2014. She is an engineer for a company 2 hours away. I am a Professional with a business that affords me freedom with my time and flexibility. She has met all my family and friends and had keys to my house and can come and go. However, I have never met her roommates or her family or Co workers. I have nothing at her house. No keys. No involvment in her life during the week. She texts me every morning during day and afternoon and before bed… We have a great life on weekends as we both enjoy dirt bike racing and our 2 dogs. Yet… I still have no involvement in Her life during the week. Sometimes we meet mid week and stay in a hotel. Even when we race at a track close to her house we still rent a hotel room… Her father came to visit a year and half ago and I was never invited to meet him. I have never been mentioned in any of her social media accounts… No pictures of us.. No mention of me when she does great things that I help her with… What’s more is I do most an the work on the dirt bikes and trailers and driving.. Etc… She helps where she can.. But its far from the labor and efforts I do… I feel like I am just doing her bidding now… I have tried talking to her but it’s to the point where she argues with me like a teenager convincing her parents to buy a new car… Or that everyone she works with lives like this.. I have tried ending the relationship several times only to have her refuse and argue the course… One time to the extent of her screaming at me and hitting my arm several times in the car as I was driving… In the past year I have begun to shut down… I am slow to answer her texts. I am not excited to be with her… I feel embarrassed in front of friends and relatives with her… I feel used and played… I ended it recently and within 3 days she was at a race event we go to most every weekend with a man she was introducing as a CO worker. I knew that as I shut down on the relationship someone else would most likely step in as she is bright beautiful and energetic. A sorority girl from Georgia Tech gets lots of attention. Now I feel like a huge sucker for investing all of my love, myself and my life on her… I can’t eat. I can’t sleep… I’m numb. But I’m intent on learning about myself in all this even at 50… She put on a good debate and argued time and time again that I am who she wants…she spends every weekend with me.. She texts all the time… That she loves me.. But in the end its her career, her dog and her dirt bike that gets most of the energy… I found myself co dependant wanting something that was not going to develop to the extent I wanted with her… I wasn’t expecting marriage.. But living together or some meaningful attempts at being together full time Das a huge dream for me. I was even willing to relocate my business… However, I had to admit that the age gap and the difference in life experiences and ideals were real… It was as if my optimism became fantasy and pessimism became reality… Thanks for letting me share… I hope it helps someone else… Hopefully you can delete the previous post with typos… – Ron
She texts all the time… That she loves me.. But in the end its her career, her dog and her dirt bike that gets most of the energy… I found myself co dependant wanting something that was not going to develop to the extent I wanted with her
Curious — what precisely you’re wanting from someone just shy of half your age? Is there a specific reason you don’t seek that from someone with less of an age gap and more in terms of life experience?
You may not be able to answer per se — but based on the topic, I’m seeing two people who WANT a continuous pop-up relationship with something that has a very slim chance — and it’s not just the age thing, it’s basic life incompatibility. That’s what a pop-up is for, I think — to get with someone purposefully where a real relationship is a no-go. But, not supposed to be a continuing thing — if the pop-up thing becomes problematic emotionally, I’d say kill it, make sure it’s dead and move on. Her priorities are: job, dog, bike — to be expected!
It looks like to me you’re getting heartbroken that a very young girl doesn’t WANT YOU want you — but isn’t that what you signed up for at the outset? That’s what people do when 1) They’re afraid of a real relationship or 2) Don’t want a commitment
In that way, it’s about *your ego* not her actions — that’s on you, not her.
My thoughts exactly. Another man in his 50s and the now infamous mid life crisis. Any man who thinks he can bang a woman young enough to be his daughter and get something back is deluded. These young chicks are only in it for a meal ticket and nothing else on their terms. Older men go for younger women to boost their egos and then wonder why they get dumped or taken to the cleaners and get little love back when she moves on. Hello the clue is in the age gap and god knows what they talk about when one person wasn’t born when the other was going through life. Personally I feel sick looking at photos of lovely young women with wrinkled much older men. As one of my single female friends put it we are left with younger men (meh) who have mummy issues or older men who want a nurse (puke). We can’t provide the replacement family with no kids (not that I’d want to be that) so become about as attractive as a rare tropical disease. My own father is still alive so no Daddy issues with me and older men don’t appeal at all. I have a 5 year up and down age range and that is it.
Wow. So much negativity and stereotypes in these two responses to ‘Ronald DC’.
Yes, obviously he fell for the superficial stuff and ego driven things like age.
But haven’t we all been there in terms of falling into the trap of expecting to be the exception and been driven by ego?
Maybe other motivations than him but no reason to judge so harshly. We all make mistakes and doesn’t it matter more what the individual learns from that?
I have really come dislike these commonplaces that mostly resemble stereotypes—midlife crisis etc. and neatly list certain behaviors underneath. It’s just not true. We all have our very own individual experience and I want to be recognized with these and do the same for others!!
Sorry but felt that these rants are not helpful…at all.
I agree with unfolding. Stereotyping around age difference or the *to be expected* traits of middle aged men vs 30ish year old women is just a distraction in my view.
Basically Ron is (was) in the position of the crumb taker with his ex. She exhibited the classic signs of emotional unavailability and immaturity – most communication by text, excluding him from her life, friends etc even after 2 years, not allowing the development of intimacy, emotionally controlling, doing the talk (‘I love you’) but not the actions. In short he was in a non-mutual relationship without much care, respect or trust. Love does not develop in such circumstances. Presently, Ron appears (from his post) to be in the process of learning what so many of us here have been forced to learn after reaching the thresh-hold of our emotional pain – why did we chose emotionally unavailable partners? However it is manifested individually, the answer is pretty much always based on the deeper question – why did/do we seek to change the uncontrollable in others instead of seeking to change what we can control – our own emotional availability, our own sense of value and worth and hence our own seeking of pain?
I am in a so far seven month long mutual relationship – not without my own personal struggles to stay balanced, to stay with a sense of my worth, and to stay *real* after my long history of fantasy based relating with male love interests. And it is good because all the pains and joys We experience are building intimacy and a solid foundation. I still sometimes feel that being myself is a ‘risk’ – I analyse it. What am I risking – losing him? Better that than losing myself. Because the minute I shut the door on myself our relationship is no longer real. That is the true risk.
I never “got” what it is about youth and beauty that makes people weak until I experienced the feeling. I needed my house exterior painted a few years ago, saw a sign for a house painter nearby my home, liked the way that home looked, so I called the painter.
The MOST beautiful Romanian young man showed up to my door. Model looks, movie star hair, beautiful accent, old world manners, swimmers body, tall. And the effect that man had on the four old ladies (including myself) whose houses he painted was incredible. We’d sneak peeks at him stretching before he worked. The crochety old lady next door who never had a kind word for any body said “He’s doin’ such a GOOD job!” We were all such happy ladies having that beautiful man around.
And that is when I final “GOT” what it is that draws old men to young beautiful women. It is the way their youth and beauty makes that man feel on the inside.
It is a fact of life. That is what is meant by “to every thing there is a season”. For the young and beautiful, they have a power that is granted to ONLY the young and the beautiful. People will drop at their feet and offer them the world. When we were young and beautiful, WE had that power too. So to think a person foolish for being drawn to youth and beauty is to forget that we once had that power.
We have to accept the fact that we don’t have that power as we age. There are men who know that youth and beauty is not ALL there is. While we will never enrapture a man with our looks as we did when we were young, there are men who like the things that aging bring about. However, in this selfie obsessed culture, I do think looks have become the MOST important thing in a lot of peoples’ relationship criteria.
. . .uh — can we we real for a second? Really really, REALLY real?
‘Cause seriously, if there’s men out there that like the things that aging brings about in a woman (hot flashes. . .mood swings. . .dryness down there) PLEASE PLEASE let me give you my info to pass along to them.
Based on the topic, I am clumsily trying to say that a pop-up is to be expected from an extreme pairing of any persuasion: too much of an age gap, too far of a distance away, too many clashes in values or culture or language, etc.
I personally think expecting more is to be disinterested, to whatever extent, in something that has a chance of working out without having to “sell yourself and the idea of the age gap(or whatever)” so hard.
I didn’t mean to put it all on age, and I didn’t mean to attack the idea by not revealing that much about about where I’m coming from. A poor oversight that ended up seeming like a stereotypical attack on May-Decembers. . .so here goes:
I’m in my mid 40’s. The majority of men who give me a chance are in their 60s. To which I’m like, not more than friendship can I offer, sorry. I’ve had to do a rather mean/obvious excuse-myself-to-the-ladies-room when I ask their age and they wear it like a badge “I’m SIXTY!!!”
There have been *two* that I’d be like well, OK! But those two have been more fit and more vibrant and more active (meaning, naturally virile without The Little Pill) than many in my age range. VERY VERY rare.
But I’m still, even with those two, thinking, how long will that (hardness. . .) last? And is there more there that could possibly keep us together and me monogamous, sexually, over time? Could I sacrifice my hardy physical needs to devote myself to caring for this man, when the time comes?
So, in Ron’s case, I empathize with the girl — with the biking and all, he’s much more fit than most, but I would think it would cross her mind — how long can this last as a permanent relationship in which I might want children? And. . .sex?
Men just don’t think that way b/c most can’t face their age and mortality (hence, seek unreasonably younger catches). Very many in those situations pretty much expect the woman to make sacrifices in return for whatever he has to offer at the time — they just CANNOT think through to what HER needs (for REAL, now) may be.
And, what are those chances I get with these older men exactly? Right, to fool around, as if they are much younger men.
So, again, I feel for the girl — if you know upfront the man is mostly interested in your relative youth and beauty, how much of a real relationship could you offer in return? The pleasure of her pop-up is enough, asking more without her REALLY offering is foolhardy. To me, she’s letting him, kindly know that she does love him as a person or whatever, but not as a long-term lover and partner — whatever the reason may be.
Not a reason to be heartsick, that’s just my opinion. I regret that it came off as judgment. But “learning” to seek someone closer to your own age isn’t a “lesson” most men of say, 40plus will learn. That’s what WOMEN want, for obvious reasons.
So, the “youth and beauty” thing is relative — I’d say it has more to do with “fertility”. Men my age who want to settle down are reviewing my egg supply and taking a pass. But to men in their 60s? I’m still coming off as *sorta* fertile, without them having to dip the wand into some chickadee SERIOUSLY young enough to be their daughter. But, given half the chance? Oh yes, these sixtyplus guys ABSOLUTELY would go for women half MY age.
That’s just life. And biology.
So — I guess I should really clarify based on some of the feedback I sort of prompted by commenting with one of the few lone men that posted — I guess I personally am dumbfounded that older men absolutely don’t know what to reasonably expect from a much younger woman. . .in any stage of relativity.
I think that there are men who know that youth and beauty are not all there is — but those men are with partners with whom they WANT to age and have made room for their OWN aging process. For the most part, men above 40 or so do not purposefully seek out an eggless but fascinating real woman with whom to pass the time.
That’s just life. And biology.
But beyond that, exempting age gaps as the driving factor of my perspective, I say, any extreme detail about the person or the situation? Expect a pop-up, that’s what I think. Not necessarily a bad thing, just, it is what it is.
My thoughts again. What I would say is this. I socialise and have met many interesting, attractive women my age and thereabouts who have given up on having an age compatible partner. Why? Because so many men go for younger women. That doesn’t make us bitter but we do give up. If a man our age is interested then we wonder if he is passing time until the next more “attractive” proposition comes along thanks to social media and the rooster in the hen house scenario.
Many of these women are very compatible with some of these men due to age, being young at heart, interests and life experience but don’t get a look in because of our age. We cannot compete with younger women in terms of age and youth. Two generations of women from 40-60 have given up and resigned themselves to spending their lives alone because of this perception men now have thanks to the selfie obsessed culture for youth and beauty.
Well an intelligent women knows that beauty is often skin deep. Would I be interested in some himbo young enough to be my son……err not ever. A younger woman could be a high maintenance diva and a complete bitch to boot using a man as a meal ticket which is shallow. But hey if she gives good sex and is good arm candy, then he stays even though he may not be 100% happy and a woman his own age could be a much better proposition having learnt more by life experiences. To my mind there is something wrong with a woman who wants a sugar daddy and then cheats on the side or dumps him when the going gets tough.
I had a friend who was hit on by a man in his 80s, she was 30 years younger and she felt like some cheap tart as he flashed his cash to entice her. This does nothing for a woman’s self esteem when men so old try their luck. Needless to say she blew him off. She also gets irritated by the older man younger woman scenario.
So to men who want their May to December romances go ahead but don’t expect it to last because the women are in it for the meal ticket and status if he has a high powered job. Think that if you weren’t in the money or in the high powered job would she take a second look at you? Chances are no and the whole “relationship” is based on superficial attraction not compatibility with common interests etc. which an age compatible women can offer so hence the pop up which damages with the fall out.
I have learnt my lessons and have stricter selection criteria now and if that means a puddle to choose from so be it but once you’be been badly burned with a EU assclown you don’t go back for more. If a man is going to post about an EU women then fine that is one thing. If it is a woman young enough to be his daughter and he is bemoaning about it not working then sorry I can’t empathise as his selection criteria is off the radar really and offends most people’s morals.
When I was young there wasn’t the internet so older men did not have the same access to “shop” for a younger woman. Plus many fathers were more protective of their daughters and our mother’s made sure we followed dress rules. We went through our adolescence at later ages so weren’t sexualised at much younger ages than teens are today.
We had youth and innocence and it was the latter that protected us. If we had sexuality we often didn’t know and didn’t aspire to be tarts like so many young women do modelling themselves on the Kardishans etc.
False nails and lashes were for show girls and hookers yet now so many young women are like clones in their make up and clothes. I believe that the internet has killed romance and made people lazy about putting in effort for love real deep and lasting love. Men pass time until something “better” comes along or bail when a real relationship needs work as they just go online and fall for the next photo that takes their fancy even if the young woman is one dimensional compared to another age matched woman that might be a better match.
Feisty — I mean, yeah, a shoutout to both your passages. What you said is very well thought out based on experience and perspective over time, bringing up many aspects to what is going on.
I think you might be a little older than me, b/c young girls were getting to be sexualized more and more in the media right while I was growing up. My “innocence” was “protected” due to extreme religion in the household, not “innocence” for its own sake as is rightful to a girl under, say, 21.
Me personally? More recently, I started noticing roughly 10 years ago that “cougar” types 40plus were put up next to 20 somethings as equal. I started first seeing on TV shows that older women were presented in the same style as a daughter character, then I started seeing the same thing IRL. I found it SO unsettling, to expected to hoe it out my whole life. Sorry — I have NEVER liked high heeled shoes!
Now. That SHOULDNT EVEN BE A CONVERSATION! Even though I think it’s a GOOD THING that now it is clear that a 40something real woman is HOT. But, it is expected that no matter what the age, a woman must present herself as under 30 — with makeup and clothes (and high heeled shoes, naturally).
The few men I have noticed IRL with *wives* of age appropriate, the women have the same style and presentation of a much younger woman. No fuddy-duddy, soft curve clothes from J. Jill or something, nah ahn — it better be tightish from H&M, and her face needs to have a full bake (or beat or whatever the kids are saying now).
If the man is single and on the hunt, he goes for much younger period, no matter how the age-appropriate woman is dressed and made up.
So — I think a pop-up relationship in a lot of ways perpetuating a man’s fantasy of what a woman is/should be, and from your teens onward, you “have to” play to that fantasy in order to have any sway with most men.
For me, I check way up under the hood at where the man’s head is at if he’s over 40 and hunting — otherwise, I kind of take a pop-up as a given — I already know he probably doesn’t want a real relationship with a (pre-menopausal) woman my age.
P.S. — Creepy ass Gavin Rossdale, who cheated on his lovely, uber talented 40s wife Gwen Stefani (reportedly with a nanny Gwennie treated as a sis) is now reported to have “moved on” (that’s a pop-up, yo!) with a 27 year old model. Further evidence that the struggle is real — this sh!t happens to regular women as well, every single day of our existence.
Adding salt to the wounds here….I guess..
Just watched the new “AbFab” movie (Absolutely Fabulous for the uninitiated), and when an age-appropriate woman told a rich old man that his young-gorgeous girlfriend was just a gold-digger, he replied “Well lucky for me I’m a GOLDMINE!”
Yeah. The men who want young and beautiful ain’t looking for multi-dimensional relating.
Those older men who do appreciate occasional time spent with women of their own age sometimes are only offering pop-ups, too.
I know two older women in “age-appropriate” relationships, but in both cases, the women are better off financially than the men…..not rich, but their income and homes provide a cushy place for the men to lay their heads. I don’t think that is lost on the men…they know where their bread is being buttered.
These are facts of life. As Bette Davis said, “Growing old ain’t for sissies.”
curiositykilledthecat ROFLMAO at your comment “her face needs to have a full bake”! Loved it. I am in my 50s and got out of a really bad marriage. I have learnt a lot since then from this site and female friends with their online dating woes and in the real world meeting men socially. Like you I check under the hood and am aware that many men irrespective of age will only offer a pop up relationship. So as an example. I have leather blazers/jackets and skirts. Do I wear them to look younger….. no I wear them because I can…. for me. Most people will take 10 years off me and I often have minimal make on namely only blusher and lippy.
I can scrub up well as I have been told this and for formal occasions will wear more make up but it is very subtle and only enhances my features. I don’t self tan either. I know what looks good on me and have my own style as I have never followed fashion and if folks don’t like it then tough. Take me or leave me is what I say ‘cos I am not dressing to appeal to men or meet society’s expectations of being a cougar.
Cougar I am not and never will be. I have been known to wear red and wear red lippy with navy and tan when the mood takes me and oh red lippy really does something to make you feel more confident when you need to be. Having had health problems to deal with I dress to cheer myself up and know if I look good I feel good.
I believe that once women are over 50 and post menopausal we become more liberated and just get to the point of this is me and I’m doing for myself. We don’t need to be someone we aren’t and won’t do that to attract or keep a man especially if we have initiated a divorce once or twice.
I watched First Wives Club last night and had a great giggle as it is about wives being replaced ergo dumped for much younger models and how they get back at their low life husbands. I was bopping in the chair to the track sisters are doing it for themselves and really enjoying the moment. The cats looked at me like i’d lost it mind you!
Who cares life is too short and should be enjoyed being the women we are not what men want us to be. You can be all a man wants and still they will move on. The thing is that younger women with older men have to be someone they aren’t i.e. look, act and behave older and eventually this tells on the relationship. There is a lot to be said about ageing gracefully which is what our mothers used to say, as mutton dressed as lamb looks just that and becomes an object of ridicule.
My mother was old in her 50s as that is the way it was back then. Now women in their 50s are more self assured and know what they do and don’t want based on life experience. We take care of ourselves better so can enjoy life as single women finding our own happiness and living in the present.
I should also add that men in May to Decembers are having to be someone they aren’t i.e. younger. How many men in these situations dye their hair like Sir Paul or even wear a toupee like Mr President Trump himself.
A relationship with a younger woman takes a toll on these men too as they become all they aren’t to keep the young woman on their arm. These women are in effect prostituting themselves for the lifestyle and money payback. Only by being ourselves in relationships do we have a chance of finding trust, respect and integrity. Young women trying to keep an older man and vice versa is false as no-one should have to do/be someone they aren’t to be in a relationship as Nat says.
Like attracts like and I feel sad for these people that they can’t enjoy genuine adult love so only have a pop up based on nothing more than falsifying yourself.
Having had a man my age tell me he wasn’t sure if he wanted to marry for a 3rd time and then finding out his partner is young enough to be his daughter my thought was more fool you then.
The relationship is doomed as she will want to marry and he will be under pressure to do so and then regret it or leave. I think he is also with her to validate himself after failed marriages and avoid his emotions as he admitted he is scarred emotionally. Hence a pop up.
I once met a couple where it was obvious the woman was much older and he was a gigolo. She passed him off as her son but they were sharing a room and he then mentioned something that told me he wasn’t. Clearly he was benefiting by holidays which he wouldn’t otherwise have.
Other people were like good for her but my point was that at her age she was setting herself up for heartache and I have to wonder about people’s selection criteria. At my age you want to know that a relationship has a better chance of working and a May to December doesn’t. Sure no relationship is fire proof but if your selection criteria are off you have a higher chance of some EU assclown wheedling in to your life and ripping your heart out.
Feisty, Elgie R, et.al., etc. — A new block b/c the other thread was getting too narrow to read —
So, I went and looked at some other blogs and stuff to read and people were saying EXACTLY what we are saying. However, I think this was the best and most engaging discussion, probably due to Natalie’s work/writing, putting it all in a context so it’s a little more clear (and entertaining! natch) that we can all bond around some of the same or similar ideas/ideals rather than having just your run-of-the-mill B!tchfest.
I’m so happy to have heard some positive and encouraging things around Self b/c I can tell you IRL and online even, women usually just don’t offer that kind of support. Even Natalie stepping up to blog and help us out is most welcome. Maybe it takes going through EU hell and comiserating and comparing notes to get us to stop competing for scraps-heap menfolk. . .and tearing each other down and stepping all over each other to “get” his sorry ass.
Well — go take a look at the requirements to be a Hooter’s waitress — you can Google that one. I found the requirements to be very similar to 1) ANY job, if you’re of a certain age, competing with youngers and 2) pffft, what men want from women, especially if it’s a pop-up scenario
Also, look no further than ole boy David Schmimmer(50) reportedly taking a break from marriage to his much younger Britwife (31). They’d have dated and married when he was in his 40s and she in her 20s. Seems not SO bad. . .but still, further evidence that the struggle is real. Not to judge other peoples situations and certainly all the best to rich people BUT! for a regular person like me, I’m all
1) I’ve got kids to take care of
2) I’ve got aging parents to take care of
3) I’ll have an old husband to take care of soon without the kids being able to help
Guess which one of those things is most likely to get the heave-ho?
So, at my age? I actually PREFER a cougared pop-up with a much younger man! B/C a golden-oldie trying to step to me that JUST! Doesn’t get it but wants to get off is very much a NO, at this point. But, they just don’t *get* that, and never will.
Almost makes you want to utter a tired “pfffft, MEN!” and roll your eyes, but here’s hoping there’s hope. Out there. Somewhere.
I am left wondering if genuine men who date with honesty, integrity and purpose exist or has social media and online dating removed people’s manners completely? Having met 6 men in 6 years, one fried zoned then blew hot and cold keeping his options open as a friend before disappearing without a word. One was a playa who denied it when asked and said he was a flirt but was totally loyal to any woman he was in a relationship with. Cue eye roll and big sigh! Another was having regular sex with the ex several times a week…. so meh. One was younger and just on an ego trip, another wanted a mistress and the latest one conveniently omitted to mention a partner young enough to be his daughter for 10 months which tells me he was on an ego trip and keeping his options open with me. WTF! Feeling that you are an “option”, “fall back” if the current women doesn’t work out or ship to jump to if you are perceived as something better doesn’t feel good at all. Needless to say I didn’t go there with any of them. The latest one has left me feeling completely disillusioned about men and dating such that I am thinking of getting the strongest super glue to stick me permanently to the supermarket shelf.
I could meet an genuine, honest, loyal man who is into me and am not sure I would believe anything he might say because of the low lifes I have met, as at the back of my mind would be is this for real? I have had men say wonderful things to me over my life some just to get into my pants which didn’t work, but am left asking why it is that I don’t get the genuine interest with follow through, actions matching words as oppose to being used as an ego booster.
Do I now fall into the category of a 50 something women who is cynical? Yes I feel that I do now because of the actions of the men I have met since I became single not that men understand that. So many people don’t consider their actions on the person they mess about with or the person that individual then might meet with the damage and destruction to be able to trust.
Not only that but the chance that the person affected in this way may not then feel able to move into the right relationship when it might come to them owing to lack of belief in what is being offered and feeling that it might just be more smoke. There comes a time when you say no more because I can’t take the disappointment, don’t want to invest the energy to get someone to unfold etc. To be honest the thought of meeting a man who is a stranger and getting to know that person scares me now.
Hi Feisty,
‘Another One Bites the Dust’………. 🙁
Definitely can relate to your feeling wary, and weary, of dating (particularly the online variety). I’ve just recently, yet again, had a man I was seeing/texting/e-mailing for about three months reveal his true colours through sudden inconsistent behaviour (yes, that old chestnut). Actions truly do speak louder than words in revealing a man’s character so I had to let him know that I found the situation unacceptable and cut off all contact with him. It really does all start to feel pretty soul-destroying after having gone through this same sort of scenario repeatedly. ‘Not again, surely……….’
Trouble is, unless you’re incredibly lucky in love, (I’m certainly not) trial and error seems the only way to go. Trying to pick the one ‘needle’ out of the massive ‘haystack’ of duplicitous, game-playing, time-wasting, full-of-crap wrong’uns out there is a truly exhausting task at times. All we can do is pick ourselves up, dust ourselves down and start the process all over again.
I too have wondered if I will actually be able to recognise and trust in ‘the real thing’ when (if) I finally do find it (him), after so many false starts………
Try to keep your head up, be good to yourself and live to ‘fight another day’. Good luck. 🙂
M
Never dated online and never will. Am reeling from being groped and molested by a pervert on a cruise ship older than my 80 year old father. It happened at dinner in front of his wife and the other people who saw nothing wrong. That says enough about their morals. Anyway the ship took action but my trust in men is severely dented and it was non existent after what my ex did to me. All I can say is that I felt disgusted, sickened and cheap by his actions and I did nothing wrong barely talking to him. He obviously saw me travelling alone as sad and desperate for him to satisfy his lascivious perversions.
All I can say to any young women who think they are the bees knees responding to advances by men old enough to be their father is this. Ask yourself why these men cannot find an age compatible partner?
Think about why they are interested in you and vice versa?
It might be great while you are young but if you are on your own at 40 and a man near 70 hit on you how would you feel then? No doubt disgusted and cheap especially if the wrinkled old f@rt had his hands on you. But that is what you are signing up for. Go out and enjoy life but leave these perverts alone as all you are doing is condoning their actions and making them think it is acceptable to do what a man did to me.
I’m making bloody sure this man won’t do this again and the cruise company took it very seriously when it happened. I reckon him being called in and spoken to spoilt his and his wife’s cruise. But I ask what sort of woman would sit by and watch then laugh off her husband doing that. A woman selling her soul for a lifestyle which is what young women are doing with older men.
Good day ladies! I focused on a odd, blurred line friendship that had these attributes for years. He and I met and absolutely hit it off but we never actually dated. I would go and spend time with him watching a baseball game, his dog fell in love with me so I was the dog sitter when he left town, we texted constantly with random jokes and seeing how our days were. Things slowed up and he kinda vanished. I hadn’t known him for more than 3 years and I was totally naïve . Blinded by his charm and good looks and my “luck”. whenever things looked like they would progress to the next level, he would stop. He would blow cold for a couple of days. What had I done wrong? Well one Sunday I get a text saying he was so sorry and that he loved me, felt torn up and had to see me. I bet you know where this is headed. Yeah he had a GF that was in college states away and never home. I was soooo hurt. We talked , he apologized and said he didn’t want to lose me as a friend and how he loves me still. If things in his life were more simple, and manageable , he could see us together. Ha! Well anyways skip ahead it’s 7 years later and only recently in the past year has he shown his true colors in terms of real selfishness . When I needed his help after a car accident, he didn’t pick up the phone. He didn’t even visit me until about a week later after another mutual friend asked him to tag along because it would mean so much. I called him out and he told me that because of some mental issues (he has ptsd, ADHD,anxiety) from serving in Iraq, he just wasn’t able to be himself. Mostly because of his social anxiety. He started texting again and checking on me, making me feel like he really did care. I tried to make myself realize that this guy was changing and our friendship was changing but it hurt. Fast forward to a week ago. It’s been about two months since he really texted me anything of value. No more funny random texts, how are yous, want to watch basketball tonight etc… he won’t reply to a text unless he is good and ready . Talk about a 1 sided friendship whic is not fun. I saw him in person while waiting in line for something, and he quickly came over and hugged me, told me how amazing I looked, and how he would come by to see me soon. I laughed and nodded knowing full well he wouldn’t. For the amount of times I have boosted his ego when it was on life support, this guy future fakes with me. Before he walked away he leaned in saying how he missed “us” and how he has been dealing with social anxiety issues again and he knew I understand . I do understand, but also know that communicating to friends you love is KEY. the issue I think is that he won’t change even if I tried my hardest to get him through this. I would do that with any friend. He would just be patched up and disappear again while hurting me in the process. The mental push and pull from his hot and cold EU ways has done a number on me. Lost friends , family hates him, some friends I don’t bring his name up because they think the world of him when in fact he’s really just blowing smoke. He shows the world that he is perfect and pulled together when in fact he loves to play the “it’s all about me game.” Selfish and controlling . Finally I decided that my heart can’t take this push and pull anymore. I am not good at NC, and really try but I see things that I think he would like to read, or funny jokes we would share. Keyword “would”. I guess it’s time to accept change and that’s the toughest thing to admit. Peace.
Hello all,
I would start out by saying that reading all of these posts and comments has completely opened my eyes to behaviour that I have been accepting without thought, both on the part of my POP-up and myself.
My situation feels like a total cluster-F*** and I am at a loss how to deal with it.
I have been involved with someone for the past 6 months. I have known him for 15 years and he is one of the best friends of my ex husband. We all met at the same time and he was involved with someone else, whom he eventually married.
That being said, the attraction has always been strong and present between us. He is no longer with his wife and I have been separated for a year and a half.
Throughout our respective marriages, we have always been close. We have maintained a connection that I have always felt even as friends, was stronger than that of the connection I had with my spouse. We could read each others minds in perilous times and were constant sounding boards to each other. We had many good times and I’ve always thought that we would be really good together.
Fast forward to 6 months ago. Neither one of us is ready for a real relationship (ie, dishwashing, visits to family functions and date nights) but we do enjoy each others company and both want companionship on occasion. So we see each other once a week ish and the sex is kind of the best ever. We talk about everything and see the world the same way. We both stated our wishes with this at the beginning, so there was no confusion.
That being said, he has made it clear that the whole thing “feels” wrong, because of my ex. He feels massive amounts of guilt and continually tries to end things with me. I agree every time because at the end of the day, I care enough about him to want him to be happy and I know that he isn’t emotionally available because of the turmoil that he went through with his ex.
He needs time. I need time too. The very thought of anything permanent with anyone makes me want to throw up in my mouth a little bit.
He is a friend and a lover, but this thing that we are doing is always on his terms. I text…he only replies sometimes. I don’t text and he starts to drop messages to me again. He says move on, that it can never work because of his guilt about my ex. I start to and then he invites me over. All i’m after is some consistency and I don’t know how to get it. I feel like i’m on a yo-yo with him.
I suppose its partly because I love him (although I don’t feel like I’m in love) and if there was anyone who I would be willing to break my own rule of no permanent relationships with, it would be him, in time. We are so compatible and have such amazing chemistry that I can’t seem to shake the idea of what it could be with us.
But I’m starting the feel like a backup plan. Always there to give support but not getting much back and the thing is, if anyone else tried to make me dance to this tune, I would’ve been outtie a long long time ago.
Guilt about your ex? A commitment to you would be a betrayal or some such to your ex but having sex with you isn’t? Where’s his guilt about how he’s treating you?
It’s easy to believe that because we get along well with someone, have great chemistry and share common interests that we are therefore long-term compatible. Relationships don’t endure because they possess certain qualities (chemistry, love). they survive and thrive because of what the two individuals possess: kindness, commitment, respect, resolution, and how they use these qualities to build and nurture their relationship. You cannot expect to find lasting happiness with someone who finds excuses to treat you poorly.
You’ve both been through a tough time as you say. It’s perfectly normal to feel emotionally vulnerable and dependent on your long-standing friendship with this man, but you do need to get some distance. NC is always best in these situations. If you can’t go fully No Contact at least stop the texting and quit getting together/having sex.
Phooey — this is meant in the best possible way and no harm or foul intended even though it’s brief:
The only thing to note here is a cautionary tale (yet another) about loving a man who don’t love ya.
I agree with both of your replies. I have decided to step back. I can’t completely go NC because of our friend circle and my job, but I can definitely stick to cutting the sexual side of relationship off.
It will be hard, because I enjoy our time together, but I am determined to move forward with my life in a positive way and I know that I cannot do that with someone for what may be or could be or the potential that I see and isn’t there.
His guilt is an excuse to have this entire relationship on his terms or he wouldn’t be able to sleep with me either.
Hey stuck! I understand your frustrations regarding the chemistry and the level of comfort you have with him. I am the OW (soon to be WAS) and my very close friend of years was the guy. We would think about eachother and either get a text suddenly or see eachother . Spending time with him was such fun because there was no pressure — just friends hanging out. Yeah.. no. As soon as we starting getting past the pg-13 stuff, and the wild texts were flying, the dynamic changed. He admitted his feelings for me, and there I was left in limbo. Well what the heck — so basically I’m in his back pocket for when he just wants a friendly bump n grind but yet he claims that he loves me? It ended up being 2 much for me. I’m working on trying to figure out if I can even stay friends with him because when we see eachother , the sexual tension is immense. But, he rarely texts back, and I only see him in person for about 3 minutes at a time twice a week (work schedules). He has control issues and right now I’m physically tired of it . It’s been years and I deserve better – YOU deserve better. He’s handsome, charming, and EU, and he always will be. The last time I saw him was about 5 days ago and he asked if I could do a favor for him. Sure, yes… do you think he has contacted me regarding that? Nope. I stopped dropping things for him and live my life . It’s a shame , I was just what he needed in so many ways but he is not what I needed. Takes time and hurts but I’m moving forward … good luck !
Listen to The Who’s “Won’t Get Fooled Again” on blast and repeat — helps.
I feel your pain sunshine …. it’s extremely difficult to say no to someone that you have viewed as a friend for so long. That seems to be one the biggest hurdles for me anyway.
This guy is strong and smart, very generous and caring and will do almost anything for his friends, myself included.
Regardless of that fact.. and my immense attraction to him. I realize now that to keep my sanity I need to step back. At the end of the day, no matter how many amazing nights we spend together and how well we get along, there will never be more than friendship between us. He has put up barriers against us having more and I don’t see that changing.
I used to think that if we just spent enough time together on this new level, he would see that we could have something stellar. When both of us were in a place that we might want that.
I have to admit now that this won’t be happening and need to cut the cord.
I shall endeavour to be strong and hope you can be also. All the best xo
Rut- u said it all.. you recognize what is happening and the extremely difficult part is pushing forward and letting go. The worst part that I am dealing with is trying to recognize that my EU Isn’t the guy who I really want. Yes I fell for him, I’m extremely attracted to him but he doesn’t have the level of commitment I want. There is a smaller list of things but that’s probably something everyone else has dealt with as well. It’s awful to have your heart slowly squeezed out of your chest after it’s been puffed out by a guy. Mine is ghosting me right now but I also have to start backing off more and protecting myself and building up my walls. I cannot turn him into my knight in shining armor. I cant. Good luck- read these forums and you will find hope !
You are exactly right Sunshine. Just because there is so much good in a person, does not make them the right person for us. There is no way to get around someone who is EU because it’s their issue and not yours.
If they are not ready to recognize what myself or you bring to the table and make progress in the relationship, then it’s all completely pointless.
These posts have been very eye opening and reading them has strengthened my determination where he is concerned.
They say to “know when to fold em” and I think have just decided to do just that, once and for all.
Xo
Good luck Rut – it may not be easy , but come back and read these posts. I work hard everyday to overcome my Ac EU… it is soooo tough. I want closure. I want answers… but I need to let it go. Accepting that these guys are players and only want u on there selfish terms is so damn frustrating . Be thankful – mine is literally about 1000ft away from me now behind closed doors. Not easy when they are in the same building as you once in awhile. 🙁
I recently had to invoke no contact with my Mr. unavailable (who also is my deceased brother’s best friend). It has been really hard bc this is a man whom I’ve known and [thought I] was in love with for most of my life. We reconnected about a year ago and bc he initiated it, I thought he was serious but soon found out that he was just using that emotional bond to get what he wanted and I allowed him. That’s what hurts the most.
Are there any men on the planet who are not UEAs? Am seeing so many trends on here amongst the women I am thinking not. Better off single methinks as I won’t lower my standards and expectations of what I need in a mutual, respectful relationship with integrity. I blame the internet for the poor behaviour of a lot of people now because it is easy to hide behind a PC screen and muck about with people’s lives then transfer it into reality.
@Feisty – I agree 100% with you. My EU AC got sucked into Twitter and his entire focus changed. Being behind a phone screen, getting his ego stroked by his thousands of followers must have been easier than making time for me. That was a huge red flag for me. I declared him an introvert once he got lost in Twitter. He would be posting and talking on there but not answering my texts. I got upset and left Twitter and Facebook so I wouldn’t have to see him being happy and blind to my unhappiness. honestly I don’t miss either social media so it was a win win. I’m still on NC with mine and finding that space really helps heal the wounds these guys leave behind. I highly suggest it for anyone going through this.
Girls, I also call these pop-ups as ‘part-time’ relationships. And when I say part time, it does not necessarily mean 50-50. It could also mean 20% or even 10% of THEIR time dedicated to YOU. No more no less.
I left one of those that lasted for almost 6 years (yes, stupid me), I was soooo emotionally exhausted, that leaving felt like a total LIBERATION.
.
I think, if we settle for crumbs then the crumbs will be all that we receive 🙁 I just came across this article (links are not allowed here so please click on my Lulu name to read about part-time nightmares) . You deserve better.
Lulu – great way to describe what we go through … pop ups! Many years of crumbs for me with my narcissistic EU AC. Sometimes he blows hot but it’s all on his terms. I think these guys have a lot of control issues, and completely “train” us to expect crumbs and LoVE that. Anytime we hear a text or see them, our hearts beat and we drop everything. All of that has changed for me, as the clouds have lifted and I see how selfish this man has been for so many years. I loved him and he loved me (or so he said, I still don’t know). We were just friends with blurred lines but he kept future faking with me off and on and I got sick of it. I began to dare him to do the things he was saying to me, and each time he would just disappear. No contact has been extremely helpful, and I am sure when he sees me in person he will sweet talk me to try to shove me in his back pocket, but I’m not buying it anymore. I’m sure a lot of us want closure, but it’s not worth your spit. Walk away….
LeviBlue – I am SOOOO proud of you!
The interesting thing about these part time – pop-up relationships is that once we had one, there is a zero chance we will choose to be in another one like this (at least for me). I had enough of pardon my French – c.r.a.p. Not going to happen.
Ahhhh thank you Lulu 🙂 no one understands how taxing these men can be on our psyche. It’s extremely tough to just walk away… believe me I have tried mannnnnny times but at this point I am ready. Being used, FF’ed, ignored… yeah that’s not a normal friendship/relationship. I really had to work hard on the NC because I craved crumbs from him. Any sort of text… well he has changed since I first met him years ago, and he doesn’t have that spark like he used to. Memories are all I have of the guy I used to know. I don’t know when things shifted, but I’m taking back control of my life and not dwelling on him. Since I have gone back to the gym and lost quite a bit of weight, he always notices and makes positive comments when he sees me — bring on the flirting! I just smile and thank him, knowing other guys are also noticing. I hope he gets jealous, and deep down I really wonder if he does want to be with me but I cannot trust him. His control issues are out of this world. Looking ahead, I’ll be very careful. Just because a man is handsome, funny, in good shape, and likes your family doesn’t mean he is the real deal. Or the ONE. His selfishness was seen by others around me, and I blew it off as his shyness. Nope, he’s selfish and always will be. Right now as I stated I’m NC, but he’s also blowing super cold just because he can. If I do see him in person which is highly likely, he will be hot and have excuses. No more… sick of being played. 🙂
Late to it but this seems to be the only active discussion —
Hey, does anyone think men — most sexually active, single men — are capable of looking at women as more than pieces of a$$, serviceable for their own pleasure?
Are they capable of exploring and appreciating her inner depths, her emotions, her full well being — physical AND emotional? Or is it just use-use and on to the next — REGARDLESS! of whether he is a “boyfriend” or a “husband”? B/c you can have a pop-up situation in a supposedly committed relationship as well. . .he kind of has one foot out of the relationship but shows up to eat and screw.
See, I prefer men who genuinely respect ALL women, starting and ending with their behavior and have been relationship-oriented, serial monogamists, not woman-eating man-whores who “like variety.” (sexual, usually not emotional).
But! The current culture does not support this, and I have not met a man that I describe out “dating” in the general population? Like ever — not for myself, but have had many platonic friends like this– which used to give me hope pre-internet/social media, but not now.
Anyone else?
Bullet, it sure doesn’t seem like it. I used to have hope too, but it’s kind of fading. Even if there are men like you describe out there, what’s the chance that they can be found?!
Yes, my husband is a good man who is respectful of all women. I stupidly almost divorced him. I am the EU one in our marriage but I didn’t know it until I got jerked around by another man. I was suffering from “The grass is greener” syndrome. I’m cured, hallelujah! One EUM experience and I am cured.
I am re-committed to my marriage and working hard on my issues.
He has nothing in common with these AC/EUMs described on this blog or the one I met while we were separated. He is of good character. I cant imagine him ever using someone and not caring if he hurt them. He’s dedicated to our marriage, to his family and we are his main focus. He genuinely loves me and is very supportive. Basically a Man. I wouldn’t describe an AC/EUM as a Man. Male, sure. Man, no. But that’s just biology. It’s easy.
There are good men out there. I wouldn’t lose hope but they may be rare gems. If you find one, treat him like the gold he is.
And stop treating these AC/EUMs like gold. They’re not. They’re a dime a dozen, common variety type of man you can find all over the place that have nothing to offer. They’re like damned weeds! Keep your garden beautiful. Pull the weeds. Keep weeding. Eventually you’ll have beautiful blooms!
Well my ex got his dose of industrial strength weedkiller when I divorced him, lol! He was told some choice things by me in no uncertain terms so he was in full knowledge of what I thought of him and his actions. I think the choice phrases that there were amoeba in the garden pond with more backbone and that for future reference he should try sat nav to find his was round a woman’s body summed it up really as he was a selfish and useless lover who never improved with time.
Now that should have been the red flag to tell me early on but I didn’t know about red flags then and you live in hope. So ladies if a man is only all about himself in bed when he wants booty get out quick because that is with holding and signs of a EUM. And… if it is only about booty also get out.
So I am still weeding thanks to Nat and this site.
Levi,
We can’t change the way other people think and feel. We CAN change how we treat ourselves in our relationships. It’s not about blaming yourself. You haven’t done anything “wrong.” It’s about recognizing the things we do that hold us back from knowing, expressing, and getting what we need.
If you want to avoid being in this same situation again you need to come to terms with the part your beliefs and behaviors played in it. This guy has done and said a lot of things that were completely out of line, but, at the end of the day, you are resenting another woman’s boyfriend for not paying enough attention to you.
@stephanie – I’m not going to disagree with you at all. A lot of my issue is the fact that I still hold this man up on a virtual pedestal of sorts. I get protective of him if others speak about him in my circle of friends. I even get jealous sometimes. This is all wrong, and I am seriously working on changing that. Reworking how you felt about someone for so many years is extremely difficult. I think the motivation that has pushed me forward is the fact that if my two closest friends ever found out how he and I have had this “thing” for so long, they would never speak with me again. That scares the crap out of me. Listening to them talk about him, and them not knowing I even associate with him as much as I do, it has also made me realize that I need to listen to them more. They see him without the glitz and glam. They see how selfish and narcassitc he truly can be. Via the grapevine I heard he may swap jobs which would mean he would end up hours and hours away. This could actually be a good thing for me. But until that point I am continuing Nc and if he stops by, I’ll tell him that I deserve better. Much better.
I am feeling so heartbroken today. I have been seeing an old colleague for the last 4 months. He is very newly divorced and was clear when we started that he wanted to be dating. At first it was every week and then there was a large period of travel on his end, and some mixed messages. I was letting him lead, but he simply was not really engaging, despite being in contact pretty frequently. However, he would come forward and then back off
It all came to a head this monday, when he asked me out for dinner last minute, and the proceed to tell me he had been in town the past weekend after telling me he would be out of town. I was furious. Then, I am ashamed to say, I word vomited that I wanted more etc…. He was clear that he wanted to keep seeing me, but was not going to give me more and was making him feel pressured. Sadly, I agreed to keep seeing him under these circumstances of him still dating others and not commitment at all.
That night, my self esteem got the better of me, and the next morning I ended it. I said that I wished him well, but we should not see each other anymore. He responded that he was was disappointed, but held me in high regard, and hoped to see me out soon.
I feel like I was dumped, and I keep swirling that he is actually wanting to commit, but just not to me. Just heartbroken.
Tall Girl,
You have nothing to be ashamed of. You did the right thing by telling him how you feel. Tough as it is to be rejected after baring your soul, you have freed yourself from the confusion and doubt. The embarrassment will pass and you will soon realize that it doesn’t matter what he thinks. Had you not told him what you wanted things would have continued “as is” with him not committing and you wanting more and living in doubt. Please don’t make the same mistake I did and go back to him in order to (temporarily) relieve the pain of rejection. Believe me, that only makes it worse.
Ran though some old notes that I made in 2009, while in a bad relationship, found the term “spellbinder”. Read it in some book, it means-men who get off hurting women because they were devastated.
I don’t know what book I read it in. But, thought it was pertinent since I was going back as to why that relationship never was going to go anywhere.
The men were devastated, so, they also devastated the women they were involved with. That was the “high” that they achieved. LOSERS!!!
That’s an interesting term and a great point! I think these guys really do get a high off of having control and seeing us squirm. When we flip it on them, it’s like the world has ended and they can’t handle things! My EU AC Narcassist had commitment issues — he couldn’t make decisions about when he could come over and visit if I asked him. Buuuuut if it was on his terms and he had control, suddenly he would blow hot and tell me that he was going to come over finally. He would also flirt hot n heavy bragging about himself and promoting the fact that he would be over to make me “extremely happy”. Really? When. Talk about a future faker. I’m not holding my breath on that one. This is why he is in the past tense.
They do love control and they also don’t like it when we fail to give them the attention they think they deserve.
Its completely true that their ego’s are based on the attention they receive from women and how many they can string along at a snap of the finger.
On Mothers day he gave me a huge hug and said he loved me (first time ever). Then he asked me if I was busy after my shift and I said yes, actually I am.
I don’t think he saw that coming at all and it made me feel free. I also quit that part time job a day later to ensure I could get some distance between us because we usually hook up after my shift.
I walked away from a social gathering last night because he was there and it was hard to some extent, because our other friends were there also, but i did it and just focused my attention on something else.
The past week my EU has finally started noticing that I am distancing myself and the texts are coming fast and furious. It remains difficult to see him and not want him, but so far I have remained strong. We have a bond because of our 15 year history as friends, but I know he wont let us go any further so I have officially given up.
Late night romps are not what I want from him, but that seems to be all there will ever be and I CANNOT keep letting him suck me in the abyss that there may be more.
I think I’m finally at the point where I cannot see anything but friendship between us and after some time removed from him, hopefully we can just get back to that.
Mardi wrote “…found the term “spellbinder”. Read it in some book, it means-men who get off hurting women because they were devastated.”
Wow great term for what I came across in an ex Narc ‘friend’. He openly admitted in his mid 40s that he was still suffering from being rejected by a girl in his teens!
He went onto try and devastate my own relationship. It was all about power, control and getting off on others pain. Ugh. Good riddance.
Ultimately if you’re not happy with that “pop-up” situation then it’s time to confront it head on. If the guy can rent the space for free whenever he likes, why would he buy it? I’ve put up with this situation before – everything was so amazing that I though maybe, just maybe he really liked me, he would come around in the end. Sadly it didn’t happen. In my case he kept it going until he left the country and disappeared. What happens is he keeps you at arms length until a ‘real’ relationship comes along. Better to move on to something real, not the fantasy date once every 4 weeks.
I had a pop up marriage where he blew got and cold. It was after it broke down that I googled why do men blow hot and cold and came here. I am also celebrating being single for the simple reason that I am a free spirit and can do as I please without a man playing me.
I know a man who is seeing a woman young enough to be his daughter. Social media is a great way to check up on people and how I found out her age. I did this because he was flirting with me for months before he mentioned his partner. A recent conversation with him about holidays elicited an I singular response which I’d had for all those months when he talked about his life. I asked if his partner went with him and he said yes.
Then he told me she was younger to which I stated if she was as young as I thought she might be, I’d rather not know. He blushed then and asked how I knew. My response was that with a young child I didn’t need to be Einstein as when he told me the age of the child my mind had already calculated her age and I was right. He goes on his choice of holiday and she slots in.
So she is with a selfish, workaholic man who has a chronic health problem and he never mentions her or uses we. From this I’ve deduced that she a) isn’t that important to him b) fits in when it suits him c) he is embarrassed about the age gap so keeps her secret d) she is probably a passing time candidate and e) being used. He doesn’t know if he wants to marry again and after 12 months plus together if he doesn’t know if he wants to marry her he is passing time with her and she’ll be disappointed. She is selling her soul and body for a pop up relationship on his terms albeit getting the holiday perks. The reality is that he has a young child himself and doesn’t include that child in his holiday plans with her once a year but includes her child. Other breaks they go on without the child.
He spoke about something in relation to his future dream and in response to something I said, he then said to me “you are a woman after my heart”. WTF! I wasn’t even flattered by this. This encounter when I thought about it told me that he is a total douche and probably a future faker as he won’t achieve his dream due to his age and health. His ego is women and he flirts given the chance but I’ll not reciprocate as he has a partner even if she is kept a secret when he talks about his life. Cad of a man and EUA.
Ohhh wow this guy reminds me of what I went through. Total EU Narcassist AC! He was older than me, had some health issues, and flirted constantly! If we were out at the local grocery, he would flirt with someone just walking by us. I won’t lie, I was the OW for a few years with him but only when it suited him. He would pop up and text when he wanted to talk and see me. When he needed an ego stroke he would pop up. He never would commit or make a decision about us. As soon as i told him I wanted to talk to him about whatever it is we had, he scurried away and hid as usual. He always hid and dropped off the radar because he lost control of things. I ended it by doing NC and when I saw him, I was friendly and chatted but never took a word he said seriously. He would future fake until the cows came home about finally stopping over and working around my place. He even asked if I would paint a picture for him (I’m an artist), and so I had said yes originally. Well he still mentions that. I told him if he really wants a painting he can come over and I’ll paint it right in front of him. He couldn’t find a rock to hide under fast enuff. BUT he flirted like crazy up until that was mentioned , saying he would be over blah blah… these guys really do a number on you, and they are not worth it! The EU AC I dealt with is still with his GF, unhappy with her, and I wouldn’t doubt trolling to find another woman like me. I regret falling for him, but I also learned a lot about being a Florence nightingale and how I need to watch out for myself. Being single is just fine with me 🙂
As soon as I know a man is taken even if he isn’t really in the relationship, I act with propriety and am more circumspect. If he doesn’t like it tough because I know what it is like to be married and cheated on twice over as there was on overlap. That was living in ignorance and having a pop up marriage. The ex didn’t want a divorce only to have his cake and eat it. He got way with what he did because he worked away and could lead his double life Monday to Friday then made my weekends hell, when I naturally called him on his obnoxious behaviour towards me, to justify what he was doing. I didn’t know about the cheating until the marriage broke down then kicked him to the kerb.
I will call any man on his bs and know there are worse things that being alone after my marriage. Men in their 50s have what I call rooster in the hen house syndrome after one or two divorces and will go after anything in a skirt as long as it is legal for most of them. The fact she may be young enough to be his daughter doesn’t freak some of them out at all. Many men might think about that but won’t follow through as they go for compatibility and common values being more emotionally mature. No age matched woman should be flattered if a man comes to her once his May to December fails.
If you aren’t good enough the first time then why should you be good enough after this? You know he wasn’t seeing you as you properly first time and could only be passing time with you until the next young skirt comes along. If he wasn’t getting what he wanted from his young bit of skirt then he wouldn’t stay and would end it promptly. Many of these men come to an age matched woman when their health fails and they want looking after. Nope not me. 5 years up and 5 years down is my age range.
I really think there is something wrong with men who go for such young women in their 20s with 20+ year plus age gaps and I also think there is something wrong with the women too as it is so shallow. The phrase pervert comes to mind. Having been groped by a man older than my 80 year old father I can tell you it felt so disgusting to me. I cannot fathom why any self respecting parent would allow their daughter to be banged by an older man. In my 20s men my father’s age seemed so old and our parents were more protective of us. Any man who can’t get an age matched partner has some serious issues in my book which mean that only a naive youngster won’t know about or act on. Plus we would have told older men hitting on us to fcuk off.
But….. what goes around comes around and one day. These women will in time be my age and will see the men who are their age matched peers chasing after their daughters or women young enough to be their daughters. The circle of life and karma.
Fiesty- wow you have seen it all! Your heart has certainly dealt with it all as well.
I’m guarding mine now with this EU AC. You spoke of age and that made a light go on. He is 11 years older than I, and he does have some health type issues. Eyes, shoulder, back… but he patches himself up and keeps going! He doesn’t let on about those details with people because he’s always been able to woo the girl with his looks and muscular physique. Hell thats how he landed me. My entire mind set about him has changed since reading your posts and others. He has flirted around with others behind his Gf’s back , and he told me that early on when we became friends. I figured if he fell for me, he would never do that and leave his unhappy relationship with her. Oh no… years later and nothing’s changed. Well I have changed. My temper is usually under control with him, and I’ve never called him out on a damn thing. Ever. But now more than ever I see that he is a snake in the grass who is soooo selfish, and I deserve much more. I deserve a real man!
re: Many of these men come to an age matched woman when their health fails and they want looking after.
And. . .sometimes it’s before — they get wise that being single too long without emotional connection and support that a woman needs to care about his a$$ was literally a grave mistake.
Believe me, the skirt chasing never stops. . . I have a dear friend who is in her 80s who warned me about just that. She’s zippy and healthier than men around her. She says her age-matched peers finally step to her when they need something and are hobbling around because, you know, 60 year olds aren’t having it and she’s like “well, why didn’t you call me BEFORE? I just don’t have time, NOW.”
She cracks me up — sobers me — and cracks me the eff up.
Not good enough then not good enough now. Bye bye! She is so right. That is the way these men learn if ever. For one day I’d like men to be ignored they way they do to women in their 50s and seeing these women getting it off with younger men with younger women ignoring these older men. Then they might understand. But to be frank a friend said to me that at our ages the quality of single men is pretty poor and I agree with her. So if the younger women mop up these older deviants, put up with their bs and take them off the market then that hopefully means that some of the men left might be worth being with. Am not holding my breath on it though. Life is too short to waste it on a wash, rinse and repeat cycle of bs, future faking, lying and EUA @ssclown men. Divorced one, learnt the lessons, got the T shirt and that was enough.
Well the karma for the man who is in the pop up with his young thing is this. According to him we (he and I) are in our prime and need to keep on living despite health problems. Well I am doing just that and always have done on my own by travelling the world, having adventures and generally doing things that he can only dream about. I have also been places and done things he can only dream about.
He meanwhile has his Europe breaks when she tags along and his once a year sun tan bucket and spade holiday to accommodate her son. With his earnings he could go anywhere he wanted and live his dreams but no it is nothing like what I am doing. Yes I do let him know what I’m doing if we speak should our paths cross and am polite but that is all. She is also afraid of the unknown for venturing off the beaten path with a holiday. WTF sounds like a cosseted, immature, submissive girl. Afraid of the unknown is having to divorce at 50 and having chronic health problems. Anyway I am having a ball with life and to be honest I’m not sure I’d want a man who would cramp my style. Most men my age couldn’t keep up!
Speaking of age difference, started a new friendship with a man who is 70, I am 50. Started organically, in real life, (not dating), interests line up, collaborating on a project together, super cool, nothing more than friends but spending more and more time together, having a really good time wrkng together, also hanging out, getting to know each other on a personal level, meshing, laughing, sharing details of life, daily contact, don’t know at this point if he has romantic feelings and not 100% sure about my own romantic feelings for him. He lost his wife, several yrs ago, he’s still working, succesful, kind of a recluse but publicly known, 100% independent, self sufficient man. Sometimes I am falling for him, but check in with myself regularly. I don’t notice his age. He’s interesting and attractive. I would never have considered such an age difference. Our paths crossed, wasn’t looking, really enjoy time together. Still waiting to see how things unfold, it’s been a few months now, most importantly committed to working on our project together. Unsure about his feelings and mine, don’t want to ruin our collaboration by asking those questions so going to let it be for now.
Don’t go there girl — you are 50 and foxy, go younger! Imagine interesting + attractive + a walker, ready for that? Men of that age line you up for exactly that, don’t be falling for it, let someone 15 years older than YOU do that.
Yes, I am 50 and foxy, thanks feck, and I don’t need a relationship, it’s not my goal in life. I am self-employed, self-sufficient, pursuing my interests, do it yourself, independent, all the way… been single for over four years, after the last bang-up, completely-destroyed-me, relationship, I finally woke up (hello BR). Truthfully? maybe I AM ok with someone and a walker in 10 years or whatever, anything could happen before and if that day comes. So far, I see an authentic, rare, and consistent person, and I don’t see him lining me up to be his nurse, gross, wouldn’t hang out with someone if I sensed or thought that, at all, and I would call them on it. And no, not looking for a daddy, sugar or otherwise. I admit I have thought why couldn’t he be 10 years younger or whatever, but it’s not like I’m 20 or 30, I’m freakin 50 🙂 Since I’m not even clear about feelings, going to chill, spend some more time together, work on cool project and figure it out.
Be careful is what we are saying. The question to ask is why he is pursuing a woman 20 years younger than him as that is what I’d do. I have an age range of 5 years down on my age and 5 years up. 6 maybe at a push. Other than that is no go with me. Older men don’t pursue younger women for no reason. Would you have been interested in him when in your 20s or 30s? If the answer is no then you have it. He can probably smell vulnerability and I’m getting that from you.
He is lining you up to be his nurse. I heard of a woman who met a man that was older similar ages and he was everything she wanted, kind, considerate a gentleman. When the relationship got serious he just wanted her to move in and look after him. In other words he was a fake and an ulterior motive. Don’t get sucked in by him.
Feisty, thank you very much for sharing your story. There’s two things I’d like to comment on:
“But to be frank a friend said to me that at our ages the quality of single men is pretty poor and I agree with her. ”
I’m in my 40s and I can recall my single friends saying this when we were at high school, in our 20s, in our 30s, in our 40s and now some of my friends are in their 50s and saying this. I’ve said it myself I don’t know how many times at various stages in my life (I’ve been married 13 years now, working hard at overcoming my own emotional issues that I have tons of and my husband is doing the same so I’m no expert in relationships, far from it!). I think it is probably true that the overall quality of single men IS poor. It might be true in all age categories. It might be even truer in some age categories than others. But, we are not looking for a statistic probability, are we? We are searching for just ONE person. One person who is travelling to the same direction that we are travelling, ie. who shares our values and wants the same things (including love, care, trust, respect). And if we never meet this person it is not that big a deal because we are on this path that we chose and are going to do what we feel is important in this life anyway. Whatever it may be, it will of course be different things for different people. For me the important things are (among others) love, compassion and finding ways to live a full life in harmony with nature.
So my point is that discussing the quantity of emotionally available men may be looking at the issue from a counterproductive angle? I hate it when people use business metaphors in talking about relationships (a relationship is not a business deal!) but I’m now going to do it, sorry! 🙂 If you are thinking about starting a business and start thinking about the probability of failure (the failure-rate of new businesses is high) I don’t think it helps in making your business a successful one. It’s other things that are vital: business plan, strategy, adequate start-up capital, commitment, stick-to-it-mentality, getting up when you fall, etc.
“He is lining you up to be his nurse. I heard of a woman who met a man that was older similar ages and he was everything she wanted, kind, considerate a gentleman. When the relationship got serious he just wanted her to move in and look after him.”
This can happen at any age, sadly… I know many people (close relatives) that are having/ have had this kind of relationships and these relationships are/ were between people of approximately same age. In some cases the man is (or appears to be) a considerate gentleman, in some cases he is anything but. There will always be people who just want a nanny/ a nurse and my guess is that they have been like this all their lives, even when they were young.
One of my friends dates to find a man she can marry and who will put her bins out! She has done online dating and says she is giving up but doesn’t. I am not even dating. I agree with your last comment but I am not approaching socialising with the aim of finding a man. I go out to do interesting things for me. Were I to meet a man and we hit it off, he asks me out then I would go. But always I would look to be treated with integrity, consideration and respect.
I do have qualities I need in a man that reflect mine and if I don’t find them then it is no go. That is not looking at dating as a business transaction or expecting things to fail. I live my life for me and know that I can wake up each day and like myself for the person I am. I am at peace with myself and am in a place that if I met a man and it progressed it would be for the right reasons and not like the friend I described above. I don’t need a man to define who I am as a women or complete me.
Sure I miss companionship from time to time but this would not drive me to have a man in my life for that reason just to have a man in my life. That is why I won’t do crumbs from a man or a pop up. I am not looking to marry again or even live with a man to be honest. It is difficult these days to find genuine men because so many don’t know the qualities they want in a woman and they just like to sample the goods to see. Then they become men who serial date to validate themselves and not all of them are starting in a place where they are content with their lives like I am. To me if a man doesn’t know the qualities he needs in a woman then he isn’t for me. I don’t wish to have a time waster and would prefer to start on a level playing field with a man who has his act together and knows that what I can bring to the table matches what he can and will also bring.
I come back to baggage reclaim again and again to remind myself that I’m doing the right thing by paying attention to actions and respecting the choices others make. I enjoy pop up relationships on occasion. If my self confidence is low, I don’t want to share too much of myself and a fleeting romance is a great way for me to enjoy some attention without making a mess. I enjoyed a two month pop up romance recently and it changed my life. I got a big boost of self confidence after a serious illness, the motivation to transform myself, I set some goals and have have a completely new mind. It was during this temporary romantic situation that I realised that I never want to compete for attention with the ex girlfriend. I will never try to persuade a man to be attracted to me. I told myself to stop acting like used car salesperson. It is undignified. So why, I asked myself, was I trying to talk an unemployed, mentally-ill guitarist/painter/academic who was facing jail time for assault, who was living with his parents and who was obsessed with his (allegedly) abusive narcissistic ex partner of ten years? WHY?! Facing the reality of what this person had to offer, I decided I wanted a relationship with a partner who wanted to build a real future with me. I told him. He said, “I don’t know what love is,” and then he creeped out. Before, he told me I was “as sexy as f*ck”. After, he sent me single alphabet letter text messages – “x” and apologised for not staying in touch. I do not hate him. I have, however, ended all contact because his behaviour tells me he doesn’t want to be my boyfriend. If he wanted to be my boyfriend, he would make the effort to be someone I could commit to. By handicapping himself (he has a Master’s degree and lots of fellowship/grant and job offers which he refuses to accept) he’s made sure so no-one but his ex partner will want him. This is the truth about pop up romances. They are an illusion. Look your partner in the face and see the truth. You are accepting what you believe you deserve, even though you’re complaining that it’s not enough. Instead of trying to change a man’s mind, it is better to work on changing your attitude.
WTF! Have you got any selection criteria? From what you’ve told me I would have run a mile. Set yourself some qualities that you will not negotiate on in a man and stick to that for your own sake please. That wasn’t even a pop up it was a car crash waiting to happen
I am having trouble not feeling guilty for standing up to my EU AC Narcassist . He’s had me in his back pocket for years and I have found lately I’m exhausted …. cannot take it anymore. I go out of my way for him, and he doesn’t reciprocate. (He used to!) now I feel empty and so angry. He won’t text me like he used to when I ask him a question. He claims he doesn’t like texting people anymore because he has so busy with his chaotic life. In person he will talk just fine, but can’t ever commit to hanging out. I purchased something for him as a favor and he told him about it. Never got a text back. Never got a text saying “sorry I am working I can’t swing by.” Nothing. So I felt angry this morning and texted him saying how it would be nice if he could at least give me the courtesy of telling me if he can or cannot meet me. I mean seriously ? I felt guilty though for standing up to him afraid to lose him. Is he good for my self esteem? He used to be. Ego? He used to be. He’s changed so much that now I see him for being controlling and someone I don’t know. 🙁
CalendarGirl,
Good relationships are not the source of self esteem. it is the other way around: self esteem will lead you to have healthy relationships. You need to get away from this selfish, controlling soul-sucking person and start taking care of yourself. Rebuild your self esteem and find a guy who will meet you half way.
Go No Contact. It will be hard at first because you are so dependent on his attention and you are in the habit of waiting for him, thinking about him and analyzing the relationship to the point that you don’t know what else to do with your time. I know. I’ve been there. He can’t or won’t give you what you need. You can’t change him or fix the relationship. Your only choice is to stay stuck or move on.
Stephanie thank you for your words. I saw him this afternoon and everything is an excuse with him. “Yes I got your text but I’m so busy working…” “no I don’t know when I can have u help me with that favor I have asked you about for awhile now..” he just keeps saying is life is chaotic. He then proceeded to hug me twice and give me his usual smile and laugh, compliment me and head back into his office. It’s a whirlwind. He does not have focus to talk to him while at work. If I talk to him it has to be elsewhere but I can’t get him to commit. I want to walk away from him but it’s extremely tough. He’s my comfort zone. Going NC is extremely tough for me. I feel like he owes me answers as to why he is doing this but maybe that’s not really the point here. He’s just not in this like he should anymore. 🙁
He hasn’t changed Stephanie you are just seeing him as he always was. Before he was blowing hot and future faking now he can’t be bothered to hide it. The leopard doesn’t change it’s spots the spots just become more visible!
Well put Feisty. I know he has a day or 2 off starting today, so in my mind the favor he had asked me to do for him would take about 5 minutes and we could just get it done. Why can’t he see it that way? Am I being selfish? I really need to step back and see that he’s got toooo many things going on, he’s changed, and we just don’t click anymore like we used to. I keep trying to be there and act like like I used to and he’s showing me the other side of him. I can’t deal with that anymore. It’s ruined my health immensely (the stress and anger). This isn’t me…. I want the old me back!
CalendarGirl,
Until you go No Contact you will continue to find things to be angry, hurt or jealous about. This will only keep you stuck. You need to get this guy out of your head. Take all that energy you are wasting on him and pour it into YOU.
NC will give you your life (and the old you) back. Stop talking to him, quit texting and don’t “stalk” him. Cut him out of your life completely. And no cheating! I worked with my guy so the first time I attempted NC I kept checking his work calendar (stalking) and therefore kept feeding my obsession until I finally caved and went back to him. Once I cut all contact and stopped checking up on him it was easy to move on because I very quickly ran out of reasons to be mad at him or feel sorry for myself. I was then forced to acknowledge that this (anger and self-pity) was all that had kept me tied to him.
I’m not sure what drew me to him. It’s been a couple of years and I’m a different person now. All I know is that I was looking for him to supply the things I should have been giving to myself.
Stephanie – woooo wow your situation mirrors mine. I see him occasionally because of work location, so I go over and say hi or vice versa. Going Nc having him so close is extremely difficult. It’s funny you mentioned the stalking because he told me years ago that we shouldn’t fall in love and stalk eachother if we got closer than just friends. What on earth? I actually like having days where I don’t see his Jeep in the parking lot and it’s a sigh of relief. The NC will be tough because as you said he feeds an obsession and makes me feel wanted when he flirts with me. The issue that I have is that he cannot give me more and he never will. Time to stop wasting time and think about myself more. I even get upset with myself when I catch myself thinking about him and trying to figure out why he is acting the way he is. It gets tireing. It’s been like this for over 3 years now. Mind you he was never like this when we first met. Stephanie I give you kudos and props for your strength. It’s a daily thing for me to try and not think about him, and want to text him but I have to somehow figure this out before my health declines any further. Anxiety, migraines, anger… he’s not worth it. I’m sure he hasn’t a clue as to what he is doing to me either. Did you tell your man how he was an EU AC? Was he shocked when you did NC and try to rope you back in?
Every situation is different. I told him it was best if we didn’t have contact “for a while” and he made no attempt to get in touch. I was just a boot call and an ego stroke for him so he probably decided I wasn’t worth the trouble.
I did not tell him off much as I wanted to. I could never work up the courage. In hindsight I’m glad I didn’t because I think I would have just looked pathetic. And–you know what?–I WAS pathetic. Sitting around obsessing over a guy who didn’t want me.
I did keep a feelings journal which really helped me to let you some of the pent-up emotion that was binding me to him. The first couple of weeks I had a lot of reconciliation fantasies, much anger and a lot of hurt that he didn’t get in touch. I spent all kids of time wondering what he was doing and ruminating over the relationship. As time went on, I got bored rehashing the same old stuff and I began to heal. You need to identify the things that are feeding your obsession and figure out how to stop yourself.
You keep me staying focused and positive Stephanie, thank you! I have found that I want to confront him a lot, but it’s amazing how he quickly turns the conversation around. Sudden case of ADHD, and the topic is about me. He’s very much in control of every conversation, and very vocal with any feelings he may have so I have always tended to wait until the time was right to ruffle some feathers and say something. Lately though, that conversation isn’t happening because of his lack of focus and time. My family keeps saying, “why can’t you just ignore him? Stop thinking about him and move on?” Well… I would but it’s not that easy. I don’t think anyone understands unless they have been in this situation. I don’t want to keep making excuses to my family, and I want to move on but it’s not a quick resolve. That’s why I am grateful for your input, and you make me realize that I can get through this! I wrote a letter to him that I will never mail, and it was 6 pages. I had no idea that I was that angry. Then I made a list with two columns. Column A was positives and Column B negatives. Basically looking at the overall picture with all of the years we have known eachother I worked on those lists. You can guess which list was longer. All of the negative aspects just crushed the positive. I deserve much more, and this isn’t a man who can do that. All he wants is an ego stroke and quick sugar. I’m done playing games.
P.s. Stephanie – what drew u into your man that you finally went NC on? Mine is “out of my league”. No one would match us up so when I am near him, I feel special. Pretty.
Stephanie, what exactly makes him out of your league? Maybe one of the things you need to consider changing is that mindset. If you stop thinking he’s doing you a favor by granting you attention, then it will be easier for you back away. Obviously he didn’t think he was out of your league or he wouldn’t have gotten involved with you in the first place.
Unfortunately, when someone isn’t treating us the way we deserve it makes us question everything about ourselves. Our self esteem takes a huge hit, especially when we aren’t used to being treated this way.
The EU guy I’ve been involved with, who I also share a 14 year friendship with, to all observers is my equal in every way. We share the same sense of humor, friend circle, ambition, success and attractiveness. Most of our friends have even commented on how much of an ideal match we are and it still has come to naught.
I have been doing n/c for the past couple weeks, pulling back to save my sanity and this weekend I fell into the abyss again.
I bumped into him at the beginning of the weekend, he was all over me like a dirty shirt, compliments, laughs, he even said he wanted to come to my house and make me dinner (which isn’t normally a thing with us). Made me pinky swear that we would spend time together this weekend. Against my better judgment, I caved…because I’ve missed him and how I feel when we are together.
But guess what? He stood me up…didn’t answer my texts and then didn’t even apologize for it after! Made up some pathetic excuse that he fell asleep and didn’t wake up until the middle of the night.
The only thing I can come up with about the whole mess is that he’s felt me pulling away, and had to make sure that he could still rope me in…and it worked.
I am so angry with him, but more with myself. The only way I can truly get past this is to cut him out of my life completely. I thought I was ready to do that before this weekend, but fell into his trap with a snap of his finger and now feel 1000 times worse for doing so.
Hey in a rut ! I think u meant to direct that comment to me? Either way I ABSOLUTELY understand what you just went through. I have years of friendship, we match so well but he has changed. I find that when others talk about him and say they have seen him or they share a funny story I am jealous because he doesn’t make time for me anymore. I want that back. As for getting together, I have done the pinky swear/promise before and t actually worked. But now, I ask if he can come over and he just shuts down and says he doesn’t know when his schedule will allow. He turns his phone off when not working so I can’t even reach him that way. NC is critical for me at this point and I have to make myself realize that he has changed, isn’t for me, and need to move on. When I have disappeared before he shows up to make sure I am still talking to him. He will send a funny text but disappear quickly. His avoidance of questions which require a simple yes or no absolutely irritate me and he doesn’t care. No one he works with sees this side of him at all. He puts on a heck of a show and that drives me nuts as well. No one knows the hurt he has put me through over the past 2 years. Soooo time to rebuild me and it’s going to be a process!! Stay strong RUT!
Oh yes, I did mean it for you..lol Monday brain on a Wednesday.
It’s funny how we completely change ourselves for these people isn’t it? If ANYONE on the planet treated me with such disrespect I would have deleted and blocked them from my life in a heartbeat. There wouldn’t be any chance of changing my mind either. For some reason, with him, I am weak and put up with alot more. Likely because of our history and i suppose the pedestal I’ve always placed him on.
The funny thing is, I always thought that he put me on the same pedestal. That he would NEVER treat me without respect and disregard my feelings because of our friendship. We have always had each others backs in the past and it seems that taking our relationship to this new level has made him treat me completely different.
I used to think that it was because he was scared of what any relationship beyond friendship with me would mean (he is very anti commitment) and he wouldn’t be able to push me aside like I’ve seen him do with other women since him and his wife split.
But I am finally seeing him for who he is and I’m not a fan!
I just wish I could totally and forever let him go…I’m trying REALLY hard. I get attention from other men all the time and that doesn’t even help. I guess because even though I know I deserve better, I still want him above all others. (which is totally ridiculous given how he treats me)
Reading these posts helps…until he contacts me again. Then I just eat it up as always…:(
Rut- are you sure we haven’t been dealing with the same exact guy?? lol seriously I feel the same way pedistal and all. As you said, I would never ever put up with this with any other male friend. Ever. It’s ridiculous how he’s trained me and molded me over the years. I’ve gotten to a point where I see he won’t change, he won’t make allowances for me. I want more from him and it’s not going to happen. If he wasn’t in my life on a daily basis because of what we do for work, I would be able to handle this better. Not seeing him on weekends absolutely rejuvenates me. I started seeing a therapist because of him, and I swore to myself that I would never let my anger and anxiety regarding him take over but it has. This is not fair to me. This is not fair to my family. I’m working very hard on letting go of guilt I feel for going Nc and reading Stephanie’s posts and yours really make me see that I am not alone!!
You are absolutely not alone! Sadly for us, these jerks seem to be everywhere if what I’m reading on this blog is any indication.
The worst part of this whole thing and what it makes it all the harder to swallow for me, is that men FLING themselves at me…Constantly. Some of them are really decent, funny and attractive people, but because I am all wrapped up in finally seeing this guy after all these years of waiting, I don’t see anyone but him. I blow the other guys off and eventually they just fade into the woodwork.
I WISH above all else that I could just forget him. I wish that we never started down this path and he just stayed some untouchable, but perfect for me dream. Because I liked that version of him. I respected him.
Sometimes I think the part that crushes me the most is that I’ve pined after this guy for so long and the reality is crap. He can’t offer me anything. Won’t offer me anything, except pathetic crumbs that I’m supposed to cherish and I can’t, because crumbs aren’t what i’m about.
I don’t even want some grand declaration from him. I don’t want anything too serious. I just want to be able to call him up and DO things. Go out, chill at home, watch movies, go on a trip. Although at this point, just returning my texts and keeping plans would be something.
I’ve ended it in my mind a million times and I am still doing my best to stick to n/c. I am fortunate that at least I don’t have to see him every day…or now that i’m no longer working at the bar he frequents, even once a week. That would drive me over a bend.
One thing that I have to look forward to now is that I leave on a trip to St Maarten next week, and when I get back he’s going away for two weeks. Hopefully, by the time we run into each other again, he will be out of my system once and for all!
Omg. Everything you said – every feeling and want… that’s exactly the way I feel as well! I met mine and put him up on that pedestal and he hasn’t moved. Mine has a career that requires him to put his life on the line everyday. Proud of him? Yes. Love being seen with him? Absolutely. I as well just wanted that guy to hang out with and watch football, or go see a movie. When we first met I didn’t realize he had a girlfriend. He said that they were not happy and that’s why he moved a few hours away. To start over. Well, I later found out he still was seeing her off and on. To this day he still says he doesn’t trust her and they have issues but he is with her. I have never slept with this man, and we have kept it best friend, blurred lines mode. I’m not proud of that , but at times he swears he is done with her. Okay.. then he flip flops. So I’m stuck within that issue as well. As you said, I just want something simple — why can’t these guys think more like us ?? I work with a lot of his colleagues , and they all flirt with me and always have. I have ignored them hoping he would finally be the one for me. I’ve wasted time, years holding out for him. I’ve had mini relationships with other guys but no one ever compared to him. “Oh he’s not like Mr Eu. He doesn’t laugh like him. He’s not a sports fan…”excuses as to why I shouldn’t look past him and move forward. In my mind I know that I have to just stop. He doesn’t text me now — he has excuses. Mind u this guy used to blow my phone up like crazy . I know the real him, and what he shows everyone else is just a smoke and mirrors show. He’s unhappy with his situation and at one time I felt I could be the one to fix that and make him happy. Hell no. It’s toooo much to take on. I feel scared to try and move forward but honestly what has he done for me lately ? I give and give . Whether it’s texting him a joke or offering him help he just ignores it. In person he’s caught – he talks to me but he controls the topic. He doesn’t want to hear how upset I am that he doesn’t text me. He knows he sucks. So, the goal is to go no contact and avoid him where others see us. Everyone knows we are best friends so it’s normal but I just don’t want to do it anymore . I’m exhausted . I’m guessing you are as well. Have u deleted his number before and then re-added it in a panic ? Guilty. Longest I’ve been no contact was 2 weeks and he texted me. This is no joke .. this is very hard for us but we can do this. I honestly know what u go thru and sometimes he twirls in my mind a lot. I stop myself and refocus. These guys aren’t worth it !:))
They aren’t worth it. They give nothing and take our generosity as a given because we are good people.
He’s like a drug to me and no matter how many times I’ve deleted his number, or how many times I’ve told myself I’m done, I always fall back into the trap.
What I don’t get is why he keeps trying to suck me in…I know him so well and he has a healthy ego, but nothing out of bounds.
He says his reservations stem from the fact that he’s my ex’s best friend but I think that’s just an excuse. (i want you but I don’t want you) is what he used to say to me. He used to tell me to move on because he isn’t going to be ready for a relationship and I say ok..bye then…back to friends only. But then when I pull away and he makes a move again, invites me over and we spend an amazing night or weekend together which only serves to screw me up all over again.
I feel like i’m on a roller coaster and I know that I need to get off for good. Strength friend. Strength and determination and maybe we can finally find someone worth our time.
Yeah .. I have sooo been there as well. He doesn’t want me but he does! He hugs and kisses me, flirts like crazy … make a move already! He future fakes like crazy about us finally getting together. At one point he said he would move out of his place and just live with me. I was extremely hesitant knowing how he acts. Well it didn’t pan out. Honestly I am glad it didn’t because of the way he can be. He tends to be very secretive, super independent, and info is on a need to know basis depending on what it is. I’ve got so many other guy friends who are not like this and I always say “why can’t x be like my other friends?” Cuz he’s not and he never will be. We cannot change these guys at all. Natalie’s Book about No Contact is amazing. I am finishing it now and really recommend it. This entire blog is a value of information. Ive also felt that the EU guy in my world is like a drug. He disappears, and I suddenly need a little. I get crumbs from him and it’s a quick high. That’s not enuff. That’s not how healthy relationships work at all. You and I as well as everyone else going through this deserve better! Go NC rut- I am. If I see him in person I will be polite and say a quick hello but no hugs and chatter. It’s going to take a lot but NC is cruicial. After awhile, I’m hoping I won’t even realize that I am doing NC. I’m just living my life…
I know what you’re going through, Calendar Girl and In a rut! I finally left my EU boyfriend 15 years ago but it took me 6 years… it wasn’t until it got to the point where I was so depressed that I started crying the moment he stepped inside our apartment and couldn’t stop crying until he went out the door. And that was the point when I finally stopped desiring him too. And then I realised all of the things I thought about him did not matter. I was better off alone. Even if he was “the love of my life”, “the only one I could ever love”, “my soulmate”, it was still too painful and I was still better off alone.
In our six years together many of the things I wanted did actually come true but it didn’t help. He did leave his girlfriend – only to cheat on me with other women. I was able to help him get a job, actually a really meaningful project that we started together and it became a full time job for him. But working together did not solve our problems. We did move in together but living with him was a nightmare. He was a pig, he slept all day and stayed up all night, he never cleaned anything, he “did not believe money could be saved” so he spent everything he got on partying and hobbies. I was his cleaner and nanny. It was truly amazing to see how this guy with an academic degree could not handle the basics of life.
Fast forward 15 years. He is now over 50. He has finished his thesis and has a PhD. He has had gazillion relationships, is single, has one child (with a woman he of course is no longer with because “she has a personality disorder”). He has gone to see a therapist but “the therapist said there’s nothing wrong” with him. He is out of job. He is as full of excuses as he always was. He calls me about once every 2 years and gives me the update on his life and it’s always the same. He is not very interested in hearing about my life.
“That special guy” who was sooo interesting is actually the dullest and the second most predictable person I know. The most predictable being my father.
Lots of hugs to you and everyone who struggles to get over an EUM/W! I hope from the bottom of my heart that you will see the truth sooner than I did! Even if you don’t, just remember, you are still okay and you are not alone.
It’s amazing how much we put up with thinking that things will change. My EU is in the same building as me today. I have not seen him, but I cringe if I hear him or think I will see him. I just don’t want to see him right now. If he cannot answer texts and be “normal”, I don’t want to keep putting myself through this. No more back pocket girl. No more ego stroking. NC is the way to go and if I see him, it will be a quick hello and that’s it. My luv to all of u ladies stay strong! I highly suggest Natalie’s books as well- she’s brilliant!
Just an update : I have been doing NC and it’s been amazing. Early today a text popped up. I had deleted the AC’s number. It was him charming his way back… he was kind and funny. He wanted something. All these men are the same.
Hi Everyone,
I actually thought I was alone in this, but it has a name “The pop up relationship”. It is frightening to think that it is THAT common and makes me wonder what is happening to people,what is going on? I fell in love for the first time at 33 (now 36) with a man that made me realised that I was beautiful (I am very obese and on a daily basis for 33 odd years I had been told I was ugly, disgusting, not normal, an oddity in this thinness obsessed world). We were together for 7 months and he broke it off and I did too on some level but this is where the craziness started, OBSESSION. I have been obsessed with him so much so that from february last year I have allowed myself to engage in a pop up relationship with him whereby we will spend weekends together and play house. I know and I am certain I no longer love him, some times during the weekends I even wonder if I like him as a person and I’m quite sure if I hadn’t been in love with him then and the sex was amazing he is not the type of person I would want to be friends with. So why do I keep going back and why do I obsess about him. He would disappear for weeks without giving a sign then pop back up and not even asking how I have been doing and would say he wants to meet up and I do, well did I have been fighting the urge for a week now. But why do I wonder if has been seeing some else this all time, why do I care , why am thinking about him all the time, not in the dreamy sense more like “you are such an ass***, if you could ask me how I am now and again before treating me like a sex object, I would be game for this pop up relationship because it’s enough for me, but you can’t even be a decent human being”. I guess what I am asking is, the arrangements is too detached for my liking because basic human interaction are inexistant when a simple how are you before let’s meet up would suffice, so why why is ending this is so difficult giving ALL THE ABOVE?
Hi Audrey ! I can understand your desire to be with him because he is a comfort. Do you feel you love this man and would want to be with him forever? I think communication is a key role in all of this. You need to see what he wants as well. Good luck.
Hi Adidas,
I didn’t love him and loved the way he made me accept my body as beautiful. This is all I was to him a body, when I realised it I tried to stop several times but the world being an awfull place where it’s alright to hate on the fat ones made it hard to stop, I needed to feel beautiful so I let him back in over and over again. Outside having sex, he would only talk about himself and slag off all his previous girlfriends, then he would insult, belittle me and show me no respect. I knew that I didn’t like him as person but the fear of never finding one that like my body as much as me made me check out my self-esteem and dignity. But no more, it over, they will be no more contact and I will never see him again. I am free and breathing again. I just need to accept the fact the world is what is and everyone was giving the rigth to insult me, belittle me, hate me, ostracise me, spit on me and I have to find a new way of coping with us without his attention. It was never love it was a hiding place and a poor one at.
Audrey,
I know you are feeling stuck, but you deserve a lot of credit for recognizing your “relationship” and your obsession for what they are. Are you having obsessive thoughts about the guy and the relationship when he is not around? Or is the problem just that you can’t end the relationship?
I was in an almost identical arrangement last year, right down to the part where I wasn’t sure I even liked the guy anymore. He was using me for sex and, as much as I resented it, I would agree to see him whenever he asked. I ended things by sending an email telling him I was ending our arrangement and asking him not to contact me.
The first few weeks of NC were very hard. I kept a feelings journal and this helped me to realize how almost all of my feelings for him were negative. Even my reconciliation fantasies were about me telling him off and him making amends for being such an assclown. Eventually, because I wasn’t seeing him and getting fresh fuel for my obsession, I was able to (mostly) let it go. I still think about him and get angry sometimes, but I have gotten much better at identifying and redirecting my obsessive thoughts.
Thanks Stéphanie,
I never missed his presence, during our long week-ends I was eager for him to leave after about 24 hours. I guess I was obsessed because as he would talk about the previous
(Possibly other Who knows) girlfriends (usually right after sex with me), I would wonder what have they got that I don’t for him to have obviously stronger feelings for them. I wanted his affection, his acknowledgement even though his words, ideas and behaviour repulsed me. My obsession made no sense whatsoever I see that now. Obsessing over someone that leaves you cold, that you do not want to spend more time with than you have, someone you are not projecting with or particularly like to have around, what was I thinking?
As of yesterday he is my past, I told him he wasn’t a good person and it was over. The beginning of his reply (I deleted the message before I could read the rest of what was most likely venom spitting at me), is ringing over and over in my head “hahahahaha is fine with me …” I’ll never know what the rest of his message was and I don’t really care as I know it wasn’t anything good but I just want his reply to fade from my memory soon. I wasted 2 years over him, I don’t wish to waste anymore time because he laughed at me for calling it a day.
I’ve been going through everything that you all have. Pop up, on his terms relationship. He is my best friend, and we have kept our feelings for eachother hidden from everyone. He disappears and doesn’t text for weeks at a time. Some days he texts me and is happy, outgoing, and flirty. The next day he won’t reply and won’t answer any questions. I’ve tried to get him to commit to things and he won’t. I find that it’s just worn me down to the point where I am thinking that he just uses me as an ego boost. A quick fix via text. I see nothing ever really happening with us in the future u fortunately because of certain circumstances. Look up Florence nightingale and my name is right there. I’m drawn to him like a drug and wish I could quit him. I went Nc for a week and he popped up charming me the entire time. I thought he would be different but he disappeared after that brief encounter. Why do men do this. I trusted him, let down my walls with him and he just uses me. Does he even see that he does this ?
“Does he even see that he does this?”
Frankly, I’m not sure which would reflect more poorly on his character: that he’s knowingly acting this way or that he’s blissfully oblivious to his complete selfishness. Are you asking because you believe that if he does see it he could change? Or that if he doesn’t see it he could be made to see it (and might, therefore, change)?
He may change or he may not. You have no say and no control over this. He will (or won’t) change on his own terms and in his own time. He will not change for or because of you. He will change when and if he gets tired of his own behavior and how it impacts his relationships.
He has given all that he is willing to give. I know it hurts to walk away after you have invested so much in him but there is nothing else you can do. YOU need to change for you. You deserve so much better than this. Keep up the no contact and build a life for yourself without this guy.
Hi Stephanie. I guess I feel like I am also at fault in all of this. I found out he still has a GF and has had one. I’ve been his back pocket girl and so in my mind I feel like he owes me more. I stood by him when he was upset with her, helped him deal with other issues, and now… now I just am a “toy” to him when he does feel like texting? Sadly I think I was hoping that if I stayed by his side as a very close friend for all of the time I have known him, he would get closer to me. He would commit , but he can’t do that. Especially now,he appears to be torn between her and me. It sucks getting crumbs from a guy that you felt had so much potential. The NC works great until he suckers me back in, flirting and making it seem like he will actually spend more time with me and leave her. I don’t know how to handle this anymore. I do love him, and he says he loves me, but he has a cruddy way of showing it. His lack of communication and just being present more when I give and give sucks. If he showed up now , I would tell him how hurt I am but doubt that would do any good. I refuse to text him my frustration. I believe in face to face. The offer was given to him to come by this weekend if he was going to have time (he’s traveling). I mentioned it twice . No answer. Maddening. I’ll take any advice or experiences you have Stephanie. This guy really made me feel like he and I were meant to be, but he isn’t looking so good in the light now.
Google the “laws of attraction”. Play their game. He knows what he is doing. Saying “I love you” is not to be taken lightly.
Be scarce. Date others. Don’t answer texts. Answer only calls. When on the phone with him, keep it light, quick; don’t give any advice/help; get off the phone first. Treat yourself the way you want to be treated. Treat him exactly as he has treated you.
Do this. For a while. While doing NC with him. (Unless he calls you. Then do as stated above. Don’t offer to meet with him, though! Let him do that.)
You won’t want him when he comes back.
Knowingly selfish soul-sucking jerk.
Uhhh– so. . .everything stated from “sadly I think. . .to “funny way of showing it” strikes me, a casual reader as fantasy, nearly bordering on delusion. And that’s not meant to be mean.
Me personally, when I got in deep like this, I would take a sheet of scrap paper and fold it in half. On one side, I’d write “what I want” and the other “what I’m getting”. That step forced me to look at reality in black and white, staring me right in the face.
Your columns don’t add up. . .and neither does the girlfriends, for that matter! You both appear to want a loving, committed relationship from this man, but he has not chosen that. . with either of you!
Get, real, and real fast — I once waited patiently for 5 years to get married to someone I didn’t understand that when he said he didn’t want that, I thought it meant at the moment, not not ever. It’s now too late and all that’s out there seem to be jerks and losers.
If your comittment column isn’t filling up the way you want it, do NOT waste time on guys like the one described.
Amen, go — no run — in peace.
Marilyn,
From reading your last post it sounds like you are doing tons of overthinking and overanalyzing. It’s like one of those mind-teaser puzzles where you keep rearranging the pieces in order to get them to fit but they never do. “in my mind I feel like he owes me more,” “I was hoping that if I stayed by his side as a very close friend,” “he appears to be torn between her and me.” You are spending waaayy too much time going over and over AND OVER this relationship in your head, trying to figure out how to make it work, how to get him to change, how to make it acceptable to you. All of this is futile.
I used to do this sort of thing as well and it is very unhealthy. What matters is that you are not happy and that he is not showing up to the relationship. Nothing else matters. You need to break this habit of obsessing over the particulars of the relationship in a desperate attempt to figure it out.
Do not take the advice to “play their game.” Get away and stay away. Go no contact, period. Do not talk to him only on your terms or anything else to try to get the relationship (or him) back under your control. You will only keep yourself stuck and you may develop some bad relationship habits that prevent you from finding a better guy.
Stephanie and all – thank you! Yes I am overthinking a lot of this because I’m so torn between my feelings and emotions. He’s found a way to manipulate me and use my kindness. The fact that he knows he can text me for a “quickie”, and then disappear really irritates me! I’ve taken into consideration all of your advice , and this morning it’s been tough because I’m just focused on the fact that I want him here with me so I can tell him how he’s been such an AC! Is it weird that I feel like he’s a drug I can’t quit? The idea of making a list was awesome. Yeah, we all know which side came out as winner with that. How is it that a man can be so EU, manipulative , but also suck us in? His charm, looks, kindness… but yet he has so much control. My plan is to not text him. NC. If he does text I’m going to be firm and tell him i need to talk to him and would appreciate it if he came over asap. If he avoids it and texts something else, I’ll just be a broken record. It’s all about me and what I want and I need to figure out if he really does want something with me or if he plans on using me as a side girl. That just isn’t something I can do anymore, and I feel nothing but guilt because of it. This will be extremely tough standing my ground and doing everything I said because he knows how to lure me back in. I’ve got to do this for me. I lost myself somewhere along the way with him, and I plan on taking that part back.
You’re creating too much drama for yourself, for him and for the situation. That’s not NC, it’s disempowerment and weakness.
Just delete.
No contact.
No explanations.
And especially? No drama.
Sorry you love(d) someone who didn’t love you back the way you want — maybe look deeper into why that is, eh?
Hi hyper! Thank you for your bluntness and advice. The no contact is tough, especially when I see him around town a lot. I’ve done a lot of thinking about it, and as much as it hurts I need to just stop all of this. You are right – he’s not really loving me back the way he says he loves me. He’s throwing me crumbs and figures I will accept that because I always have. At this point in my life I want more and he cannot give that to me. Looking at what he wants, he just wants flirting, maybe a random hook up, and that friend he can chill with on his terms. It’s alllll in his terms he is in the drivers seat. I’m not really comfortable with that anymore. I’ve asked him to stop by many times and he just ignores that and circumvents things making excuses. I’ve heard so many… he wasn’t always like this btw. He blew very hot for years and now in the past year he has stared to act like this. Losing a best friend and someone who I really have/had feelings for is not going to be easy. I tried deleting his number out of my phone and that was even a task. I don’t know how you all do it so easily. I really admire you all – and I know what I need to do and have to focus on me and not let him take over my life. 🙂
Marilyn,
I think you are doing very well indeed and I admire you! You are in the right place (BR), you are looking for help, you recognize your problem – you are doing so many good things, give yourself credit for these steps.
As for doing it so easily, like I wrote above, I couldn’t do it at all. I was stuck in the pop up relationship for years… Then I managed to make it LOOK more like a real relationship because of us working together and eventually living together but it never was a real relationship because it lacked most of the key elements (love, respect, trust, care). Looking back, that has been the hardest thing for me to accept.
You say he is your best friend but if that is really so then I definitely wouldn’t want to meet your enemies! A best friend in my opinion would be someone who has your best interests in their heart, is dependable and supports you through thick and thin. A best friend does not vanish for long periods of time or leave your messages unanswered.
Many hugs to you and good luck on your journey! You are on the right path even if there are bumps in the road.
@Iris – thanks so much for the boost, I am working very hard to sort this all out. I’m half way through “Mr unavailable & the Fallback Girl” right now !:)
I’m realizing that this man who I felt was such a great friend for so many years, really wasn’t. I thought crumbs was acceptable, and he’s had soooo many excuses. Commitment doesn’t appear to be a word in his vocabulary unless it’s work related. When he would need help with something, I would drop things and help him. I’ve had 2 times where I texted him and needed help (serious and scary times), and he never texted me back. He had excuses for those times as well. “It’s not that I don’t care, I love you but…” the fact that he and I have been a secret from our friends for so long is also wearing on me. It’s no fun to do this, and honestly none of my other close friends even like him. They think he is selfish and always on an ego trip. Not going to argue with that. I guess I have felt like a Florence nightingale around him for this long. My “job” was to side with him when he was frustrated with his GF, listen to him bitch and moan about his job, and reassure him that he still looks amazing for his age. We have an age gap between us, I am younger. I’m finding that the more I read on BR and Natalie’s book, the more angry I am at him. I’m also angry with myself for taking such crumbs for all of this time. Whenever I go Nc or if he doesn’t see me to talk with (we work in the same very busy department), he reaches out to me. The last text I got was him telling me how pretty I am, and how I turn him on all of the time. Great. Lovely. I see nothing in return, no real conversations of value anymore, just quick fixes for him. Going NC and trying to avoid him in the building will be tough. I’m sure that if I throw off an attitude he will get worried that he’s losing me. Good. As he should. I don’t know how u all do this but I have to because he consumes my thoughts all day long. “Why? Will he text? If I could only talk to him for a minute..” I loathe that. I fight this and I am tired. There are moments where I feel very motivated and feel free – I want that again. So here I go , nooooo contact. If I see him in person it will be just a “hello have s good day” sort of deal. No hugs. Nothing. I can do this !!!!
Ignored as always…
“We accept the love we think we deserve.” (from The Perks of Being a Wallflower)
Somehow this quote and the BR website helped me leave a pop up pseudo-relationship about a month ago. I felt a little sad about it at first, going through crumb withdrawal, but am glad to be out of it now.
I am really grateful to have found this website and feel like Natalie’s blog has been a real lifesaver.
It’s day two of NC, I’m not suffering from crumbs withdrawal but instead I remember the two years of mental torture every snark remarks, the toying with my feelings, disguised insults and I’m at angry at myself for being so stupid. Either way the tormentor did it, eating away at my self esteem until I m just an empty shell. I feel so numb I hope I’ll snap out of it soon.
It’s good that you recognize this and focus on the fact that you deserven much better. Great job of NC – it is not easy!!
I’m trying to figure out what kind of a situation I have. I’ve read the comments and stories here, and if you combine them all, you have my disaster. I’ve been the OW for awhile now, never slept with him (he happens to be a close friend of mine). I’ve only met her once as she goes to college 5 states away. He and I see eachother on a weekly basis just in passing at school. I’ve always been super supportive of him when he has wanted to try new things, or travel etc . He claims his GF is not like me at all and that’s why he loves me. We text occasionally , and don’t see eachother in person outside of classes to go out to eat or spend down time together because of our hectic lives. All we do now, is have a virtual friendship via text. It’s all flirting and more via text. I have actually told him that I don’t want to lose him as a friend since it’s been so many years, and I want him to stop by my place in person so we can talk. Just talk! I’m not comfortable with this setup anymore. After he randomly texts me, he disappears for days, or he claims he will stop by after classes but it never happens. I need advice… my roommate says I should ignore his texts and he will show up. I don’t want a game, I want a solution.
“He claims his GF is not like me at all and that’s why he loves me.”
Be careful not to overvalue such a compliment. It makes you feel special to be told this sort of thing, but really this is about him rather than you. All it means is that he wants you to make up the shortcomings of his other relationship(s). You fill a very specific need in his life: to give support when his girlfriend doesn’t. That is all.
You are right to want a solution rather than a game. Unfortunately, the solution is to take a step back and accept that he does not want a relationship of any real depth. You have been very direct about what you want and he has made it plain that he isn’t interested in spending more time with you. Move on. And stop being flattered by comparisons to the GF.
Good morning Stephanie ! Yes I need to listen to what he is really saying to me and physically showing. It appears that this has turned into a quick sext once in awhile, and tons of disappointment . He claims he will come over but.. but… excuses one after another. It’s maddening. Being the fall back girl and ow isn’t how I pictured any of this with him. I pictured graduating and us being together but somehow that’s just not written in the stars anymore. I have started NC with him and because I see him around campus a lot this makes it tough. Plus his texts always lure me back in with sweet talk etc or jokes… but I have to stay strong. Should I confront him Stephanie ? Or just move on and mingle with the cute guy from Arizona that lives down the hall? I think I know the answer ….
As a side note when I did ask him to stop by, he said I apparently didn’t understand his busy schedule. That he had early classes and late meetings and would just end up going to sleep after and waking up early to repeat. So frustrating. I replied saying “okayyy I’ll see u on a day off….” sigh