Breakups, even expected and mutual ones, often feel like a kick a teeth, but a breakup feels like a mugging when it comes to light that our ex has been in effect, poisoning the waters by saying things about us that are not true or are certainly exaggerated.
Why would somebody who we shared a relationship with and who we believe that we were loving to, choose to spread misinformation designed to discredit us?
There’s a common misconception that breakups only happen to ‘bad’ people or where something terrible happened, which is akin to suggesting that breakups are an emergency measure reserved for the most horrific of relationship illnesses, when in reality, you could be The Nicest Most Fabulous Person Ever TM and short of only ever being in and staying in one relationship, you’re going to be broken up with and do the breaking. That is of course unless you’re one of those people who always gets in there first, but that’s the subject of another post.
Because of that misconception as well as another – we have to have ‘legitimate’ reasons about the other party before we can break – some people do the dishonourable thing and the moment that they feel in over their head, or the moment that they suspect or decide that they want out, rather than be a grownup and say so, they look to build a case around it, which is similar to deciding that a suspect is guilty with no evidence and then looking for ways to fit a preconceived agenda and conclusion around them. It’s shitty and lazy.
A person who is looking to make a strong case for an exit will manage their way out of it by looking for reasons to justify the decision that they’ve already made, a decision I might add that they’re free to make without having to drag your name through the mud. That’s why I hear from people who feel so damned confused, betrayed and blindsided because they realise that they were in effect set up to fail. This type of ex doesn’t give you a heads up as to what is going through their minds because they have already decided.
When this person shares their reasons with you or you hear it through the grapevine, you struggle to reconcile this version of them with the person you thought they were or the relationship experiences that you had. And of course you want to almost shout this at somebody but you don’t want to look as if you’re losing your marbles or ‘shrill’.
Some won’t go through the whole building a case rigmarole – why bother when instead, they can press the reset button? They can find a quick replacement – probably the glitter that caught their eye – and then just fabricate a story about why you broke up and ensure that it’s juicy or awkward enough that people associated with you both, feel it best to either steer clear or ‘take their side’.
The person who sets you up or spreads untruths after a breakup wants to:
Control who is in touch with you and in fact, sever ties. If they run the risk of you all talking and even comparing notes not just on your own relationship but their past ones, you (and they) will figure out what’s up. They want to preserve a certain image.
Stay deluded and avoid responsibility. Some people always give themselves and others very similar reasons for their breakups.
Save face. Some people overestimate their capacity for a relationship or oversell things and Future Fake. Rather than say, I talked out of my bottom a little too much and got carried away, it’s easier to generate a different ending to things. Unfortunately they don’t learn from the experience and so lack the self-awareness needed to see their actions for what they are.
Keep the harem intact. They may have a bunch of sycophants who value being in the lair so much, they’ll believe anything. If your ex is narcissistically inclined, they’ll be very charming and manipulative but they will also have harem members who will be too damn scared to rock the boat by questioning the claims.
Control you. They discard you, mess with your head, and next thing you know, you’re looking for validation from them and you’re at their disposal because you’ve inadvertently become complicit in their deception by still wanting them despite their shoddy behaviour.
People who don’t fabricate reasons to support their decision to break up – it’s making a decision back to front – or who don’t go around spinning stories so that they can make a fresh start and create a vacuum for their next target (while also ensuring that they avoid the truth about their actions as well as their own part in the relationship), cannot for the life of them fathom why somebody would do this.
Of course what you would do and what another would do – and that includes someone who you had romantic feelings for – are two very different things and that’s a kicker too. We don’t like to think that we loved someone who could be so immature, unkind, and even malicious.
As humans, we have a disposition to concern ourselves with what others think. It hurts when we do our best to be decent people, to love and care generously (sometimes too much so), only for that to be mistaken for weakness and treated like this bad thing that makes us tricky to offload. It makes us feel like fools (we’re not and their actions aren’t our fault either).
A good chunk of the pain felt is around that lack of control over what people think. We feel frustrated, angry and wounded because we don’t feel that we have a right of reply. Even if we speak up, it may just make the situation worse, after all, if these people have decided to believe this stuff, they may decide that us sticking up for ourselves is us trying to convince and convert.
You might be tempted to engage in some reputation management if you have mutual friends or if they’ve gone so far as to say things to your family or coworkers (beyond unacceptable) but you will potentially end up fighting to preserve your image of you with people who won’t matter to your world in a matter of months never mind years plus you will end up fighting to correct an image of a relationship that’s over. You will be trying to control the uncontrollable. The main image that you need to correct is of your ex. It doesn’t change that you enjoyed good times together but they have unfolded in a way that shows traits that don’t make them the loyal, loving, caring, respectful, trustworthy person that you deserve to be with. They’re showing you that it’s the right thing that you’ve broken up.
Some people will surprise you by being taken in by this crap and that will hurt but it’s best to know where you stand. Say your piece once if needed and then let the chips fall where they may. I do suggest however that if your ex is being particularly malicious, that you note any and all attempts to make contact with you (don’t tell them obviously) because it’s evidence of their lies and manipulations. But don’t devote too much time to them because you have a life to live…without them.
The best rebuttal in this situation is to live your life well instead of hiding away or devoting your life to defending and convincing this person or their homies (or cronies). It doesn’t mean that they’ve ‘gotten away with it’ – you cannot force feed your ex or their ‘audience’ the true version of events. Trust that their actions will manifest themselves in their lives in some way and go about your business, probably with your teeth gritted at first.
I still occasionally think of two particular social circles who were misinformed by a couple of my exes. Current me doesn’t give a feck but 20-25 year old me does, so I give her a gentle nudge to remind her that these people don’t matter in her future. These people won’t matter in yours either if you don’t let them.
Don’t engage your ex once their deceit becomes apparent because it will be used against you further down the line, whether it’s them or the people who they’ve spread rumours to. You know that what they’re saying isn’t true – tell yourself this often and internalise this. Once you don’t agree and you’re not handing this person your worth and your future, that’s the bulk of the battle.
Your thoughts?
Are you ready to stop silencing and hiding yourself in an attempt to ‘please’ or protect yourself from others? My book, The Joy of Saying No: A Simple Plan to Stop People Pleasing, Reclaim Boundaries, and Say Yes to the Life You Want (Harper Horizon), is out now.
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So true – although this happened a few years back, I wondered how my ex could undergo a 180 personality change and “smear campaign” when seemingly a “nice” person…and he’s the one who brought up separation. I also feel that he wanted to play victim so that some mothering type would sweep him up, which is exactly what happened months later.
Well adjusted people do NOT want pity, especially not from new romantic prospects.
When someone uses the broken wing tactic (“my ex was terrible/crazy/stalkerish/bitch-who-took-the-kids or my family of origin was abusive”) – RUN!
A well adjusted, emotionally available person may well have had these issues, but they won’t try to hook you with them, and especially not want your pity! Sometimes a chance for you to pity them is the ONLY thing a damaged person has to offer!
Lord, this couldn’t have come at a better time! I have a close friend that I also work with (they put our desks next to each other four years ago and Friend Love blossomed in no time) and she was dating another coworker, who joined our company about a year ago. She initiated the break-up, as he was doing the ol’ push-pull and she, well, has better sh*t to do with her time. He’s now dropping hints all around our close-knit office about her being “crazy”. She’s obviously very upset about this impacting her professional reputation. I told her that no one who has worked with her for years is going to believe that she magically transformed into a lunatic overnight and, frankly, he’s the only one that looks stupid at this juncture. Hopefully, he’ll realize that no one is receptive to this talk and will start behaving like a professional.
I think people should keep in mind that adults form their own opinions and, just because your ex says something, doesn’t mean it will be treated as gospel by everyone. As tough as this stuff can truly be, so what if someone’s ride-or-die harem member/third cousin twice removed/fellow I Heart Game Of Thrones Facebook Group member thinks you suck? Is it going to impact you in the long term? More than likely not. As my Dad likes to say, “Take it from where it comes.”
Thanks so much for this, Nat, I am forwarding as I speak! 🙂
Natasha, it’s very, very common for EU and or abusive men to flat out accuse their ex (or current paramour) of being “crazy”, especially if she is not. Such people are so out of touch, they don’t realize how creepy it makes themselves look; if his ex really does have mental health issues, why cast about for pity? Creeps.
If a man tries to tell me his ex girlfriend or wife is crazy or obsessed with him, I’m not interested. If I assume anything, it’s the worst (that he was abusive to her, or stalked her and has a restraining order, or is still in love with her / sleeps with her sometimes). Lundy Bancroft writes about this in his book Why Does He Do That. He says that abusive men accuse their exes of being “crazy” or obsessed with them, and I have found that to be true.
My dad’s ex wife (now deceased) had a blood vessel in her brain burst, but nobody knew about it for months. Her behavior declined until she had to live in an assisted living home with round the clock care, which he paid for.
My dad isn’t violent, but he is a real man and if anyone looked at his wife sideways or spoke ill of her he’d want to punch them in the throat.
Everyone” a man who claims that their ex was “crazy” or obsessed with them is a BAD SIGN. Pass it on.
Love this reminder: “Trust that their actions will manifest themselves in their lives in some way and go about your business”! Really good reminder to realize that other people’s nonsense in the end, is just that—nonsense!
I’m embarrassed to admit, but I’m in trouble again. I found BR over two years ago when I was going through a terribly painful time with an AC. It took me a long, long time to get over it, but I did or at least thought I did. Enter another AC who’s behaving just as described in this post.
I thought I was prepared and ready for a new relationship, but I am so unbelievably desperate for someone to love me that I fell for it all over again, the fast forwarding, blowing hot and cold and quite frankly abuse.
I’m being emotionally bruised and battered by his behaviour and my own acceptance of this behaviour. The last four months have seen me desperately trying to hammer that square peg into a round hole. He is jealous and paranoid. He’s punched another guy for talking to me, apologised later, but then blamed me, accused me and interrogated me endlessly about liking and flirting with his best friend, questioned where I’ve been and who I’ve been with, fed my insecurity by constantly talking about us ending and not working out, basically setting me up for a fall, forgetting his phone several times so I’m unable to contact him and then when I tried to explain how this makes me feel he accuses me of being clingy and needy, leaving me waiting in the cold for over an hour at a train station, telling me that our bodies don’t match physically, apparently my vagina isn’t a good match for him, this one embarrassed and crushed me because I can’t change this.
It goes painfully on and on, but I’ve reached my enough moment. Last weekend he changed the goal posts and downgraded me. He disappeared on me for a few days then despite spending every weekend together for weeks and weeks he was suddenly very busy and decided we could meet on the Monday instead. Enough! Right or wrong I gave him an ultimatum either he’s in the relationship or he’s out. If he wants in he knows where to find me; he wants out then he can go. I received a text message on the Saturday night telling me he’d gone out and that he could “move on easily, easily. But if you weren’t so fucking stupid this would be great”. No response from me I’ve instigated NC, but I’m hurting again.
Coming back to this post he has now contacted my sister telling her that this is all my fault, that I’ve been texting other men!, that I’ve finished with him for no good reason, that I’m insecure and this bit makes me question myself because I am insecure, but I’m sure he fed this. I’ve taken Nat’s advice here and I’m not engaging. I’m trying to not internalise any of this. It’s back to square one for me. I’m hurting and I want him to come back to take it away, but instead I’m going to push through it. There comes a time when I’ve really got to dig deeper so this doesn’t keep happening, but it really, truly hurts.
Lilly, he’s not going to come back and take it away. If he does come back then you must run, run like the wind because you have been handed a freedom pass, by yourself. You are not back to square one at all. You have learned and assimilated all of your BR lessons. This could have been 4 or 5 years of your life, instead you’ve condensed it and dealt with it. Stick with NC, he sounds awful. Your vagina isn’t a good match for him? How about his utter stinking cockwomble behaviour isn’t a good match for you? The digging deeper is what hurts honey, those wounds need cleaning out and healing thoroughly before you are ready to go again. be brave and be strong. take your time.
TheSeamStress,
Thank you for your encouragement. I thought I was back at square one, but you’re right I’m not. I can’t be because I do have an understanding of some of what is happening and I’m trying to use my knowledge to protect myself. Your comment that he’s not going to come back and take the hurt away made me cry because it’s so true and I know it. It ‘is’ the digging deeper that hurts and I’m afraid to go there. I’m finding life so hard right now.
Lilly,
this man is not worth kissing the ground beneath your feet. The whole thing screams abuse. You are absolutely right, he has fed your insecurity, who wouldn’t feel insecure with gaslighting? You have been so strong, initiating NC. You have been through worse, please do not question yourself, and as you said yourself do not internalize any of this. Hugs x
Readyforchange,
I looked up gaslighting and was horrified to recognise what’s been happening. In a few short months I cannot believe how much I’ve begun to doubt myself. But it has only been a few months and I am getting out now. Thank you for the encouragement and hug, x
Hello Lilly,
Please do not engage anymore with this guy! He sounds like an abuser and chicken. Please do not look for validation from this person, because for me he looks more like an attention wh*re. Obviously he uses some disrespectful tactics to put you down and later to get what he wants ( attention, sex and etc. )
As I understand he is talking BS to your family and friends. I don’t know what is the best to try to prove, that he has lied OR to take care about your life and to not engage and try to prove the opposite and to build more self confidence and self esteem. If I was in your place I will not engage in this, because it will be a huge amount of effort and will eat mental energy.
“… telling me that our bodies don’t match physically, apparently my vagina isn’t a good match for him …”
Seriously! Flush him, so he can engage in his Vagina seeking journey somewhere else. A decent guy will never tell things like this. What’s the point? If a decent guy is not happy with the relationship will never blame you. A decent guy will never blame you, because you can’t satisfy his Vagina fetishes. There is a difference between fetishes and mutual relationship.
Please stick to NC, block him, change phone number and don’t listed to the rumors, that he is telling about you, because this is just part of his plan.
Take care!
Still Mr. U,
Thank you for responding. It is most definitely abusive and I can feel my self-esteem slipping away more and more. I should know better because I’ve been here before and I’m embarrassed that I got caught out again. Given my past experience with an AC I know the best thing to do is not engage, but it’s terrible to feel this hurt again. As for ‘that’ comment it made me feel terrible and inadequate. I cried when he said it which has just reminded me that I’ve been a snivelling wreck for most of the relationship. I’ve come here for strength to help me stop engaging. Thank you for helping.
Lilly,
I like to share the experience about my Ex gf, that I treated as how a decent man treats a woman. Basically I was very careful, because she was a single mother and she presented her kid to me. So I decided, that the best is to slow down and to pay attention over the dates, because sometimes we were together with the kid.
At some moment she just started to behave strange, talking about other guys and how cool they are, but in the same moment I was on pedestal.
I think, that she was looking for her abuser, something like trying “right the wrongs of the past”. I think, that was her comfort zone … to be near to abuser. Well I stayed passive, in waiting to collect more information and to rise a question / issue. I was wondering, how this is possible: “Why the hell she is challenging me to be harsh with her in case she introduced me to her kid and sometimes the kid was playing near to us?” My gut was telling me that something is not ok, but I didn’t react, because I didn’t want to believe!
Well one night she behaved very strange and I decided to ask what is going on. So she told me that she wants to stop to meet with me, but I tried to have normal conversation and explained, that I am not BS-ing her and I am here for her and will help to her with the kid and etc. She was crying and BOOM, she just shot me with this: “Don’t you ever ever hurt people?” Come on! Did she ever expected from me to hurt her … I never showed myself as somebody who will hurt her.
We had more meetings and she started to behave with no respect, I also asked her if there is somebody else and BOOM, she said that she was meeting with somebody from time to time.
One night she went to company event and I got a text message at 00:00 “These men are wild”, I didn’t punish her, but I did the opposite and replied back asking if everything is ok and how should I understand this message. ( I couldn’t sleep well in the next 3 weeks. )
I don’t know if she was the abuser OR she was looking for her abuser and was just provoking me. Seems, that she wasn’t comfortable to be treated in a decent way.
After this relationship I revisited my circle of friends and found 2 girls which childhood sweethearts were controlling and abusive. After their breakups with the abusers they found some nice guys, but they were not comfortable to be treated in decent ways, so they were constantly creating some drama.
For e.g. my friend shared with me, that his ex made a big scandal, because she behaved disrespectful with him and he didn’t react, basically the poor guy was still wondering what is going on. He also shared with me, that her ex was abusive and controlling.
What I wanted to say is that some people habitually put themselves in abusive relationships and don’t feel comfort in mutual relationships.
My point is that the abusers and the abused are dependent on each other and it’s up to the abused to try to escape from their comfort zone and to change their life!
Take care!
Mr. U, I’ve noticed how sometimes women (I’m sure men can do it too) use their kid/s as a shield. Not cool.
For instance, I’ve been confronted twice by strangers who bring their kid along! My parents would never put me in an awkward situation. Who knows what a stranger will say, will react when confronted?
So, this taught me that plenty of people out there are willing to say and do outrageous things, relaxed in the knowledge that others will not “make a scene” in front of their eight year old kid. As dysfunctional as my family was, there was at least some common sense there. Using your kid as a social shield in potentially bad situations screams major dysfunction.
So True,
Probably there is something wrong with her, but this is not my business, because I am in NC almost 1 year. I could go around the city and to tell to our mutual friends, how she behaved with me and etc. But I really I didn’t want to spread any information in our circle of friends, because I didn’t want to ruin her reputation. For example her kid became a friend with the kid of a friend. I didn’t want to do anything because most of my friends will take my side and for example there was possibility her kid to loose a friend. On the other hand she slightly crossed some boundaries, because she became friend with my friends in case she didn’t respect me.
There was a boiling point and one night I knocked on her door. This night I told her (texted), that I am initiating NC and I am saying goodbye, so I was begging her for 5 minutes conversation (facte to face). I knew, that this night the kid is not in her apartment and that’s why I crossed the line and knocked on her door. After that I was discussed from myself, because I felt guilty because I knocked on the door where she is growing her kid. This night she didn’t open the door. I couldn’t believe that she contacted me 3 times after that scene, before I completely blocked her. I really didn’t want to participate in this anymore.
Anyway seems, that the kid was her shield, but for good or bad I didn’t spread any information about her in the circle of our friends. Of course I felt abused, because of her actions and I went on something like therapy and I shared what happened with me to my relatives, because I really wanted have a check with the reality.
She is past! I will never tell to my friends, that one of my exes was crazy, because I saw only the half of the story and I made my judgement based on limited information. The question is what I was doing in this situation and why I stayed so long.
Thanks to BR, that gave me information about self care, EU/AC … so now I can work on myself on to discover my issues.
Lilly,
This is a scary situation: this man is mentally abusive!
Please, look into a counselor to try to understand what attracts you to this type of individual, as this type of relationship is soul destroying.
You need to want more for yourself!
Allison,
He is mentally abusive and the worst thing is I think I recognised it a while ago! I have absolutely no excuse and no one to blame but myself for keeping it going. I do need to see a counsellor and I’ve made an appointment. I’m a train wreck and it seems I’m out to destroy myself. I worked so hard before to get over the AC and I’ve brought myself down again.
Please Lilly,
do not blame yourself! You are hurting already, you do not need more hurt. Be compassionate towards yourself! You had been badly hurt before, and were likely still in a fragile position. It is not your fault if this AC used your vulnerability against you and to his own advantage. All this says is that he is an abuser, there is nothing wrong with you. Great to hear you are signing up for counselling. Best of luck with that!
Lily, I think one problem here is you asking him ‘either you’re in or you’re out’. Why does he get to decide? You should get to say that he’s out, that you’re out. Then you should list everything you said here [but only in your own mind, he doesnt need to know – he doesnt deserve to know your feelings and your insecurities].
During breakups we can feel like we dont know whether we are taking the right decision – maybe I’m unavailable and should try harder, maybe I’m over-reacting, maybe his behavior is normal. Some of this might even be true at some points in your relationship – none of us are saints thank the lord for that. However, no matter whatever your mistakes, your insecurities etc etc., what he has done and said are total deal breakers. If you feel you are flawed, does that mean you deserve less than decent behavior? Why do you want to ask him whether he is in given all he has said and done?
Your image of the relationship seems to be this thing where you are a sitting and willing duck and he gets to swan around [i like these duck and swan metaphors! they just occurred to me!] — you seem to have no agency at all to make decisions — the question is – are YOU in or are you out? You know that your friends and BR readers would support you in being out, we support your intuition that you should be out.
Its funny that when people say negative things about us we actually hang on or forgive them or feel worse about ourselves. Someone that sleeps with you after saying you are physically incompatible is not a good person at all. Just think about his motivations here – why is he hanging out with you if you are no good? Blah! The nerve of this feckwit. Get out!
BUT — why do you want to be with someone that is no good and treats you badly? Thats the question you should ask yourself. What do you expect from relationships and love in your life? Do you want to be with someone that you find funny and smart and attractive or someone you find boorish, rude, cruel, and lousy? Since he’s clearly the latter and you still want him, write down the reasons why. Explore your own emotions and motivations and how you feel. Just write them down, think about them. I hope you find the answers that will help.
Lilly:
What Suki said.
It´s exactly what I was thinking only she worded it much better than I can.
Also, there is a certain pull to difficult situations: it´s much easier to let go of relationships where you´ve been treated decently than those where you´ve been abused, which is very ironic, I know. So it´s up to you to have the wisdom and discipline to disentangle yourself from the bad.
Lilia,
It ‘is’ hard to pull away because I can’t stand feeling hurt, but I’m hurting in the relationship and hurting out of it! There’s no difference and I will use all my BR skills to disentangle myself. Thank you.
Lilly, is this a familiar pattern to you – making yourself smaller and weaker than you really are in order to win someone’s love? How was your home life?
I think that if you keep reading BR, Natalie’s books and get social support like from a 12 step group (love addiction, or adult children or alcoholics, al-anon etc.) to get nonjudgmental support (friends and family can only help so much, and may not even have your best interest at heart. Also, the abusive partner can get to them and manipulate) you will undo the reality warping effect that these men have wrought.
Suki,
I’ve been thinking a lot about what you wrote and I agree I am like a sitting and willing duck giving him far too much power. I made a list as you suggested and I’m horrified at the things I’ve accepted and disappointed with myself. I know what’s happened I’m ‘still’ trying to right the wrongs of the past and that’s why I’m back with an older, ‘father like’,man who happens to be an abuser. I expect to be let down and of course inevitably I am. I thought I’d worked it out,but here I am again. Sometimes this feels like too much to cope with, but posts like yours help me so much. Thank you.
Lilly, this guy is garbage. You should be proud that you’ve seen him for what he is within a few months. I agree with Suki ~ why give this guy a choice? You get to choose. If you consider contacting or responding to him, remind yourself of the terrible things he has said and done. You did nothing to cause any of this ~ he has acted this way because this is who he is. It won’t change, it won’t get better. I really hope that you will decide to be done with him for good.
A,
Thank you for the support. I’m ashamed to admit this, butif I’m truthful I did recognise some of this as abusive much earlier, but pushed those thoughts aside and chose to carry on regardless. Stupid mistake, but time to try and put all my BR knowledge to good use. I have no idea why I gave him the choice probably because I was hoping that he would come back (and he has tried several times now). I’ve got to realise that this is my choice and take responsibility for the outcome and you are 100% right it won’t change and it won’t get better. I know this, but I wish it didn’t all hurt so much. I truly am beginning to feel there is something fundamentally wrong with me.
Lilly,
There is nothing fundamentally wrong with you, other than perhaps a lack of self-awareness, but this is something you can work on. When I started to read and learn from BR, I found out that the thing that helped me most to disentangle from an abusive situation was to learn to know me. That is, to find out when and why some things make me feel bad, and to take them seriously. Most times it´s much easier to hide your head in the sand regarding the things that are hurting you, because then you don´t have to look at them very closely, you don´t see them clearly and you can pretend nothing´s wrong, or things are better than they seem, etc. It´s a defense mechanism, and as such, it has a utility, otherwise we wouldn´t use it.
The problem is that once you get used to hide things from yourself (something that isn´t all that effective, because on some level you or your body knows that something is off), things tend to escalate. And then the abuse gets more and more intense, and you get more and more hurt.
I relate to what you say about hurting both in and out of the relationship, this makes it extra difficult for you to know what to do. The only solution I can think of is to do what you know is best, regardless of how you feel at the moment. Just follow BR´s guidelines, maintain NC and don´t pay much attention to those doubts you´ll have popping up all the time.
Imagine you´re a little girl with the flu, waiting to get healthy. The doctor (Nat and the BR ladies) came over and prescribed a very bad-tasting medicine (NC), which is so disgusting you think it´s making you feel worse. If it were up to you, you´d just throw the bottle of medicine out of the window when no-one´s looking, but you´re a sensible girl and you know that the doctor knows best, so you just take it and wait for it to work. In the meantime you try not to think about how bad you´re feeling, because you need all your strength to get healthy again. You´ll probably want to snuggle with your teddy bear, take a nap, or read some funny book. And rest a lot, because that´s how to get the flu out of your system.
Just trust the process, Lilly, don´t question yourself and maintain NC. Sooner or later you´ll be able to stay away from abusive older men, because you´ll see them for what they are. They won´t have any power over you anymore.
Lilia,
I’ve had a moment of what I can only describe as pure weakness (anxiety I think) and I (unbelievably, I could kick myself) responded to one of his emails in which he made a list of all the things I’ve ever done wrong, including forgetting to tell him where I was going and berating me for talking to my sister although he wrote to her listing all my faults. He wants to get together and talk, but suggested that “you need to go to the doctors first and get a lobotomy”. Presumably this last part was a joke, but I’m not buying it. I’m following your suggestion instead and paying attention to the stuff he wrote and it does make me feel bad and I can’t pretend otherwise. I also realise it’s not worth the effort to defend myself because he’s not going to change and if I go back I instinctively know he will be worse. The other side of me, the part that responded with “I’ll think about it” is full of pain and anxiety and wants to go back as a way to reduce the hurt, but I’m not going to hide my head in the sand. I’m also trying not to internalise any of it, but it feels like a battle. Your post really helped me and I’m going to keep it as a reminder that what he says and does seriously hurts and if I can push past the feelings and stay in reality I’m going to get passed this. Thank you Lilia this was amazing, xxx.
Lilly,
If in a moment of weakness, you decide to contact him again, why not tell him you will certainly meet up with him after you have had a lobotomy.
He might not be smart enough to get that means NEVER, but it’s well past the time that you had a laugh at his expense. He’s horrible, nothing more to it than that.
Hi, Lilly
Things will get better. I have to see my ex-gf/EU weekly at the Christian singles group where we met. But NC worked. I can no longer remember why I was attracted to her. I don’t have the energy to spare to be angry with her, though I do often wonder how she sleeps at night pretending to be nice and share the same type of values when I know the truth of her is that she doesn’t at all, even though she talks as if she does. A lot of folks don’t understand my shunning her but they don’t have to. I am not going to run a smear campaign and don’t care one way or the other if she has. Actions speak louder than words. I tried to be nice but ultimately she followed the AC/EU playbook almost to the letter for keeping a foothold in my life. She broke some boundaries that stunned me because I thought she was too stubborn to break NC. Had to block her phone (my phone lets me do that) and route her emails to trash to get some peace. She was obsessed about her image in the social circle and me as an option and bluh, blah, bluh, all of you already know the story.
The experience was a wake up call. I admit I have been swayed by sexual desire before. I don’t know how she killed it. But now I’m much more interested in care, trust and respect and it’s helped me in evaluating dating prospects. I opened myself to that a month ago, even after being approached immediately following the breakup a few months ago. I’d made some plans with a friend of a friend to go to a concert this month and told her I wasn’t looking for a new relationship – just coming out of the one with Miss Unavailable – but that I would follow up a month before the concert. We exchanged numbers, I did wish her a happy birthday when that came and attended her birthday celebration where I reiterated I’d get in touch about the concert a month beforehand. But when I reached out she hadn’t even stored the number. When I reminded her about the plans, got crickets.
Flush.
Met another girl, we talked/texted a few weeks with me calling every couple of days. She was nice and everything but then stopped responding when I sent a have a nice day, feel better text. No call back either when I called later.
Flush.
Got approached at the gym by someone I chatted with last year. Something felt off, though. She acted weird. Turned out she was dating one of the PTs there, but was happy to approach me when he wasn’t around.
Flush.
I’ve had this half-hearted interest, lazy approaches or responses from women five times in the last month. If she’s not interested I’d rather she say so instead of playing games. But it doesn’t matter; if I have to deal with this crap already, she is not a relationship prospect and a friendship is dubious at best. I do what I say I will do when I say I will do it. It’s just how I am. Actions not matching words is my Achilles’ heel, I don’t understand it, but I decided after the last one I am done with being too understanding.
You get one warning.
I read a lot of BR, and I do not understand why women take so much crap from men who aren’t even halfway decent, or why I have put up with BS from women so long, myself.
But if someone makes you feel bad, or if they are a hassle before you even get started, probably best to get rid of them immediately because they’re not going to be any better when you chase them down or whatever, or get involved. I don’t even feel rejected, I think I’ve finally reached a point where I’m putting that crap behavior on them. I can’t control what they do or how they respond. I can only react to it. The best part is that I don’t feel bad about dropping the chase. I used to feel obligated or something, or like it was my last chance or no one would ever be interested. Now I don’t care. I flush and forget, onto the next. While I hope I meet some women with integrity soon (They must exist, right? I see plenty here) I will not be wasting any time or emotional energy on those who show me right away that they don’t have it when it comes to me. Especially the ones who chased me for the attention in the first place and then started playing silly games. I think that’s the key I was trying to think up; it’s not your last chance, Lilly. Someone else will come. Only you can decide if they’re better. If not, feh. Flush them. Don’t get emotionally (or if you’re like me and get attached sexually, then sexually) invested until they prove they are worth the investment and can be trusted. I’ve found it much easier to discard trash when I am looking at it purely as discovery and not thinking of them as anything more than potentially someone to go out with on one occasion. Until that occasion happens I have no idea if I’d even want to see them again, so much easier to hit the flush handle if I never let myself think beyond that. Long term, who knows if that approach will work out but so far it’s already saved me some heartache.
Lilly, Try not to be hard on yourself. We’ve all been there ~ wondering why we didn’t break things off with some jerk at the first sign of disrespect. Internalizing what we learn from BR is a process and takes some time. I think when we had parents who were abusive, we recognize when something makes us feel bad, but spend too much time trying to figure out why the other person did or said what they did, or giving them “chances”, rather than realizing that it’s indicative of his/her character and distancing ourselves.
Lilly my dear,
There is nothing wrong with you. Hey, when we met someone we don’t know, it takes time to see who they really are and you saw the red flags popping up all over the place so you knew there was something wrong. Good for you.
Seriously Lilly, this guy is a joke. He’s trying to hide his sexual inadequacy and any others he has, by blaming it on you. Really! I would have just about fallen down laughing if some guy had ever said that to me.
Don’t even go there, he’s winding you up big time and that’s the truth!
Guys who do this aren’t worth the steam off your pee. (Got that one from one of Nat’s previous posts). You’ve swallowed his crap hook line and sinker, where you should be putting all that garbage back where it belongs, squarely onto his shoulders, this was all down to him. He was the one doing all that crap, saying all those things, NOT YOU.
Draw up your list of boundaries and red flags and when anyone steps over them, take a huge step backwards and have a very good look at what is going on.
If you recognise something that isn’t going to have a good outcome – step away before you get too involved.
Don’t break your heart over this guy, he’s just too pathetic for words.
Chin up girl, it’s all a learning process and we all have to go through it. You’ll know better next time.
Lilly my dear,
You are doing the right thing by getting away from this guy. He’s not right in the head or heart. Please don’t think you are at “square one” as 1) you aren’t–you’re adequately using your BR skills to redirect this, and 2) that type of language to yourself will unnecessarily program you to think that you’re beyond all hope (far from it) or so far gone or into this mess that you can’t get out (you’re not). Keep coming to BR when you need to, love. And pay special attention to Still Mr. EU’s comment below, as it is spot on (and great to hear a decent man’s perspective).
Sending you love and encouragement. You can do this,
Revs
Revs,
So wonderful to hear from you! Can you believe I’m back; different AC similar abuse! But you’re right I do have the skills to redirect this and I can do it. This might be a long, slow learning process for me, but I have learned.
Thanks Rev, your love and encouragement is priceless, xxx.
Lilly,
Please take a few years off of dating.
These last three guys have all fit into the same exact mold: abusive!!!!! It’s the same man, over and over again.
You really need to understand the men you are repeatedly choosing, and what draws you to them, so that you will not end up with another asshole.
Lilly,
Not sure what else I can add to everyone else’s great words.
This man can only ever abuse you and insult you — that’s who he is and what he does. There is no other, better, more civilised version of this man waiting to blossom. He has already blossomed, it’s ugly, and it stinks.
Your life is too precious to be wasted on garbage. Praise be to NC and fade-to-black this assclown.
While living well is always the best revenge, when the exN started his slander campaign I would respond by saying calmly “of course he says that, that’s what abusers do. They discredit their victim so no one will believe what kind of monster they are.” And I left it at that. So every time he opened his mouth, his actions proved exactly what he was/is.
Brilliant! I’m so swiping it! Perfect, not just for abusive exes, but any abuser who has resorted to this behavior. A former volunteer group I was in was headed by a narcissist and his sycophant, who regularly ostracized members that either threatened the sycophant or dared to have a different opinion than the narcissist. They would immediately then go into smear campaign mode, and unfortunately, many people in the organization would believe it — until it happened to them. Despite the long trail of ‘suddenly former’ members, I’m afraid I was one of those taken in, until it happened to me too. Now I know only too well the truth of your statement and will forever be on the lookout for such tactics. This kind of response could be one of the best ways I’ve ever heard to combat such behavior and make the third party listeners perk up.
🙂
Your comments are on POINT! I find me in SO many of your articles!
You’ve been in this world before! Your knowledge is on extreme levels ABOVE your AGE!
I love reading your thoughts and comments on LIFE. Besides the GOOD BOOK—you give the BEST advice on CONTROLLING you, moving ON, and the NCR!
? it ALL!!!!
LOVE it ALL!!!!
So good. People talk talk talk. I do it too. (Not lies though–pointless). And then people forget. I have maybe 3 or 4 people who care about me on a deep level (dog included). And that is all you need. Really, before BR/rehab I was so concerned with being social (ie emassing scads of people to like me to make up for me not wanting to do the work of getting to know me and then deciding if I liked myself).
Now I can’t be too bothered by what others think, beyond trying my best to be assertive, respectful, and honest (still need to work on those), there isn’t any reason to include a bunch of people in my business. So I guess I don’t know what people are saying about me. Honestly, I don’t think they care too much (if at all) beyond trivial gossip and as long as I’m not there to hear it…carry on.
The anger that can boil up inside of you when faced with disgusting lies that get spread by disgruntled ex’s is something I am all too familiar with. It completely consumed me, I was filled with dark and heavy feelings and the more I tried to correct the lies, the worse a level my ex would stoop to. And very publically too! It was at the lowest point that the penny dropped – he is doing it to have some effect on you, some form of control as he enjoys the satisfaction of watching you squirm under his hand – and you are giving him the power! I took it back by realising what he says and does is a reflection on who HE is and by no means a relfection on me. I stopped caring about his words and opinions or what his audience believed. Those who matter to me know my truth, I know my truth. The freedom this gives you allows you to move on and expend your precious time and energy on things that matter. Dreadful lying ex’s do NOT matter.
LILLY: That he is looking to justify himself to your sister shows he feels the need to remove blame from himself, so he knows it’s on him. The more power you give to him the more he will use it over you to your detriment. This man is never satisfied with what he has – you have done well to cut off from him. You gave him all a woman possibly could give, and he played around with your feelings possibly thinking you need him too much to walk away. Just keep walking girl, and heal.
CJ,
I’m so sorry that you had to endure the viciousness of your ex. It’s a struggle not to internalise them and I agree it is a reflection of who they are not us. Luckily for me my sister refuses to buy into it and has cut him off, although a friend today agreed with him that my insecurity would be a major problem and she agreed that I’m “too sensitive”. Who wouldn’t be sensitive to judgments and negative comments about themselves! I’m back in a dark place again, but I’m going to keep walking. Thank you for taking the time to help.
I was seeing someone for a month or so, just casually as it was new (no sex) when my female friend and his female friend started a mini smear campaign against me/us….he subsequently dropped me in a txt message….long story short, they did me a favour as I was not in a good place at the time, and he was a narcissist, the relationship would have gone no where..but I digress! I’ve never forgiven my friend and it upset me a great deal, I saw her in a different light from that time fwd. I didn’t confront her about it, I figured our relationship was damaged regardless, rather I’ve just distanced myself from her ever since, sad really, adults in thier 40’s acting like school girls.
I have to see an ex AC Narc at a work do this weekend. He scuppered a major work project for me, but always bad mouths everyone, me included ,and nothing is ever his damn fault. He is very manipulative, trendy and arrogant…
Part of me wants to tell everyone at the event how phoney he really is, but the best policy I feel is just to ignore him and talk about future projects and not my past, which he was professionally very much part of .
What am I really scared of I ask myself, I don’t give a monkeys about what people think these days, and he can’t manipulate me if I stand over the other side of the room, and remember who he truly is under the cool façade, a frightened little boy, who decided to choose attack as his default mode.
What I am really scared of, is in fact admitting, that I allowed someone who is I think quite evil, into my life, and how messed up I must have been to allow this to happen.
He knew my voids, and he filled them, he saw my insecurities and he provided, once in he saught to control and destroy, because that was the only way he knew how to be .
I am loved, I am lovable, destruction has no place in my life. I used to think he was so sexy, now I just think he is ill.
It’s taken me a year, it all starts with NC, believe !
Louise, you’ve done very well to get where you are in a year! And you’re right, just keep doing what you’re doing, don’t worry about countering his manipulations. I’m sure most people know who to trust.
These ACs do prey on our vulnerabilities and destroy us. It leaves us wondering how we could let ourselves down so much. But getting out and identifying what those vulnerabilities were, and how we can address them, is the important thing. I feel fine saying out loud, or in more subtle ways, that I WAS a wreck (and did all kinds of stupid things), better than I AM a wreck (so please help me/exploit me), or pretending I was just unlucky. The former shows strength, humility and learning. You’re right that it begins with NC, this means that right now we can take the power back and then over time, our thoughts, the stories we tell ourselves, and reactions will follow.
just to clarify, nothing wrong with asking for help in our more distressing moments – but certainly in new relationships, we can admit mistakes but should not be looking to that person to fix us.
Happy B – thank you – yes saying WAS a wreck is the way to go. Plus indeed no one person can fix us, be it new fresh men or great therapists. We have to put in the graft, we have to do it, support is good, community does help, but ultimately it’s a self esteem job on our part.
But eh we are getting there , thanks BR XX
They are spreading misinformation about us because they were so sure that we loved them, yes it is true, and they thought we would not survive without them. But somehow we managed without them, and they are so mad, they can do anything to crash us again and again.
They are very bitter because they thought we are finished, they are very jealosy to see us moving on. Let us give them one last blow and kill them forever (Best revenge), let us take care of ourselves more than before, it is the best revenge ever
Very true Matlou
My first and last attempt to “settle” with a pretty redneck, uneducated (by choice) local was frought with problems from the get go. He was spreading disinformation about me from the start to be sure I was in a place that, if I broke up, I’d never be able to move on. He knew we were light years apart as to core values and lifestyle but he wanted the exotic woman on his arm in public. When the final break came, he started a major smear campaign; I was working with his business partner at the time in this small town. Very uncomfortable. I’d go to public places with colleagues after work and his friends would be glaring at me. The best way to overcome this is to show through your own actions that you are a good, wise, person. A few years later, one of his friends and his wife, very prominent folks, came to me, told me I looked 10 years younger since I got rid of him. Living well is the best revenge.
Wow, this is exactly what I needed to read today! I have been very anxious about the campaign going on by my ex who dropped me suddenly and refused to speak with me after a three year relationship. It’s so tempting to attempt to manage my reputation, but I don’t need to concern myself with the opinions of his harem- they are peter pan rock star wannabes, and I am a successful professional. No one who can affect my life would consider their opinions in the least. Let them talk while I hold my head high and continue creating the life I want, free from the obligation to spend time with people who were incredibly immature and dramatic. I’m letting it go!
Great post Natalie. Any discussion about social circles and their fickleness is salve to my wounds. I work hard now to not try to control the uncontrollable, something I wish I had known in hindsight of my mistakes. Its really good advice to let the chips fall where they may.
A friend said to me one time, regarding an ex who he was friends with, “Don’t think that the other people that know her aren’t aware of the same issues you are with regards to her.” In other words, most of the time people won’t rock the boat and will steer clear of your personal relationship dramas while still being mindful of the issues. Its better to think of this in terms of people respecting your privacy instead of not caring. When you’re hurting, you want people on your team but that can be divisive and sometimes demands people choose sides.
In my experience when dealing with large groups of “psuedo-friends” in nightclub or partier communities, the integrity of the group is paramount and the person with the highest standards always loses out. My favorite saying is, “The greatest common factor in a community is always the largest amount of bullshit that can be universally tolerated. . . Paradoxically a principle required for division.”
I bow out.
“The greatest common factor in a community is always the largest amount of bullshit that can be universally tolerated.” This is brilliant and perfectly encapsulates a certain type of social circle.
When my ex AC and I ended our long term relationship… It was brewing for months. I finally, FINALLY realized nothing, no matter what good I brought to the relationship or the sacrifices I made, didn’t mean much to him, and barely reciprocated. i started backing off, easing my way out if it, and letting him know we needed to end things. He turned it around and blamed me for things going wrong (building a case), and named all these reasons why I was pushing him away, he’d rather be alone, etc. I just said to him… ‘Its okay if we’re not good together, we don’t have to try and make something that wont work, work’, and we don’t need to blame one another, its just not a good match.’ Hours later, he was texting me, lol. As if he was joking around. I really didn’t want to make excuses and go through the immature BS. He was lying about a lot of things about me… It was really frustrating not to want to defend myself and explain the truth. But, since I was already exhausted from the emotional turmoil of the relationship… I didn’t care what he said about me. I knew what happened, why I felt the way I did, and knew he was full of sh!t. Period. I am dating someone awesome now who treats me like gold. Its best to keep your dignity in tact during and after a break up, no matter how painful it is. I’ve gone through a lot of negative, Assclown behavior which ultimately led me to an awesome guy. He showed up when I was done w the drama (some inspiration for you single ladies :)). He says to me all the time how lucky he is, he’s waited so many years, tells everyone how awesome I am and how much he loves me. And I never thought he existed! So, please… Have faith, trust and believe that someone wonderful is waiting for you to show up. He says about my ex AC/Narcissist… “Man… Did he eff up”, lol.
Demke,
I agree with you! Your situation sounded just the conversation I had with the AC/Narcissist. I just accepted that it was over after he acted like a fool and treated me poorly. I think he thought I was joking until I stopped engaging with him. I too met a great guy and got married! So it is possible to meet someone after all the turmoil. Just stay strong ladies and you will be have the peace you deserve.
Demke,
How wonderful!!!!
I so agree! There are great people out there, we just must be receptive to it!
I have not been here for a while but reading this I have to say: while Nat and BR readers call a narcissist A/C, I read a lot about NPD, narcissism and codependency, NPD stages and abuse. One of the phases in NPD behaviour is smearing campaing and inability to accept their responsibility. They are sick, perverted guys who enjoy hitting you when you are low (where they intentionally plan and place you in the first place).That’s how they setup a breakup: you are crazy, pscycho and lunatic. The best to deal with narcs and a/c : no contact ever! I consider the guy I loved to death at one point: dead. I mourned the loss but I’m still trying to get rid of his toxins (after 5 Years of abuse).
You’re so right Elle. When the distinctive behaviour forms a pattern or a package, it so often points to a serious personality disorder. Those people cannot be helped, cannot be saved, and cannot be changed — ever. Their behavioural condition is pervasive and permanent. Explaining behavioural issues to them and trying to correct them by offering love/understanding/rewards, or by telling them how much their behaviour is hurting other people in the hope that they’ll stop acting like that, is completely and utterly futile. It’s like expecting that a person with Downs Syndrome can somehow be made not to have the characteristics of Downs Syndrome any more if only the right person comes along and shows them enough love and understanding. Impossible.
‘Trust that their actions will manifest themselves in their lives in some way’
This line resonated a lot with me but I question whether so called Karma exists in this universe. I don’t want my ex back but the thought of him happy with someone else nauseates me.
He is a vile cheating , lying bastard who managed to keep a girlfriend for two years after we split while I can’t seem to meet someone decent inspire of being a good decent loving caring person with good morals. I don’t believe in much anymore. 🙁
Confused123,
You have no idea how his relationship is going! You assume he is happy, but even if he is that has no reflection on you. You should be happy that he is gone, especially if he was a cheater. Based on your comments, you are looking for some validation that somehow if you meet somebody like he did that you win! You don’t realize it now but you have won already because you don’t have to deal with his lying cheating ass anymore.
Confused,
It doesn’t sound like you’re ready for something new, as your focus is still on him.
Time to take your life back, and stop worrying what he is, or isn’t doing.
You’re simply wasting precious time, and energy!
Confused
Unfortunately, being good folk guarantees us nothing in life other than a clear conscience and the satisfaction that you did/and am doing, everything possible to change things. Karma happens, but on its own time scale and in its own way. Men and women both, if conventionally attractive (don’t know you, not saying you aren’t) will always snag someone right away because physical is what folks initially look for, not human decency. Single men, particularly older ones, will always find someone sooner as they are a limiting resource and similar aged single women are 10x as abundant. I don’t know what proximity the ex is to you, whether it be a common social circle, the same neighborhood, whatever, but you need to not speak to, hear about, see this person. My new dating mantra is to select men that, should things crap out, I need never see them again, hear about them. It used to be that you’d find someone from one’s own social circle, thru common projects/activities, but now, with a lack of accountability, one can no longer do that. What you’ve gained is clarity; no longer being lied to. Believe me, this person hasn’t changed; they’re still lying, just not to you.
NML, ladies and gents, I’ve been reading BR for a couple months now, trying to get my mind right about a situation, and I hope you would be willing to give me some support if you are able to. I apologize for the length.
A year and a half ago my 10 year long relationship ended. My ex was decent and kind but as a couple we had run our course. We broke up amicably and while I have regrets about how long I remained in a dead-end relationship, I do not wish to be with my ex anymore.
In March of this year I met a man my age (32) who had just split with his fiance due to her persistent drug problem. We had some mutual pals, were neighbors, and got on really well together, lots of flirting, seemed like a kindred spirit. I was scared to take it any further, though, in case things went badly and we had to see each other all the time.
In the meantime I had been making plans to move to a city two hours away (new job, fresh start, yada yada yada). So I figured, what the hell, might as well see if he’s up to hang out one-on-one. He was super keen and said he’d been trying to get with me for weeks and figured I must not be interested. I told him I didn’t interpret his flirting as a direct invitation and considered the possibility he was just practicing flirting again after his break-up. Anyway, we had a nice time together but nothing spectacular. Yes, we had sex. “Just some casual fun!” Yeah right.
A few weeks later he came to my going-away party and we ended up spending the whole weekend together. We talked for hours and hours, are very compatible and I just felt like I could be myself and be accepted for who I am, while accepting him. This included lots and lots of fantastic sex, of course–something I never experienced with my ex. In fact he’s the total opposite of my ex in many ways. I got more positive feedback about my beauty and sexiness and humor in two days than I got from my ex in ten years. Crap, I was getting hooked.
Over the course of the next two months I spent a day in his city, he spent a weekend in mine, then I spent a weekend in his and finally this past weekend he spent the weekend here. He came on very strong about that first visit to me, trying to find the right day, “I wish I were there with you now,” tons of cutesy texts and pictures exchanged, and then afterwards he told me it was one of the best weekends he’d ever had. Of course I was loving it but I tried to keep my cool and not initiate too often.
At the same time I was getting very torn up inside because the crumbs are not enough to sustain me and I could feel myself turning into a doormat. He never really showed any interest in who I am as a person, but talks at length about himself, his opinions, ideas, observations, life story, and I have dutifully listened, ugh. But I’d never felt so sexually desirable. This man was not very attentive outside the bedroom but went to great lengths to please me sexually. I am 32 years old and had my first partnered orgasm last month. I have been dickmatized. I really wanted him to be my “second chance” at love; I’ve been feeling so hopeless, lonely and invisible since my break-up. With this guy I still felt lonely most of the time but I ignored all the warning signs and believed what I wanted to believe–that I could fit a square peg into a round hole and live happily ever after.
So during my most recent visit to his city I met his sister and a few of his friends, which felt great. But by Sunday morning I got the sense he wished I would leave. As I gathered my things (while he slept, and slept …) I found an opened box of condoms between his bed and the wall. We haven’t been using condoms (I KNOW). My heart sank and I continued on my way. He showered me with kisses and said he’d come to my city soon.
The next week I got the usual “wish you were here” texts and pictures of him. He invited me to another concert in my city at the end of September, so I felt like maybe I could keep ignoring red flags. Against my better judgment I invited him to accompany me and a couple friends to the beach (which was this past weekend–two weeks in the future at that point) and he accepted. But he was pretty distant during that two weeks. Seemed like he was having to force his interactions with me. I was a nervous wreck during this whole time. My sleep was interrupted because I’d think I heard my phone beeping to indicate a text. But I wanted an opportunity to see him in person because I was determined to tell him that this arrangement is not working for me.
From the moment he arrived he seemed unenthusiastic. I worked hard to show him a good time and felt like a failure. He was just kind of grumpy and acted like he was doing me a huge favor by being with me. I had to initiate each time we had sex, which was very unusual. He was pulling away in every respect.
Finally on Sunday as we puttered around my apartment, I spoke up, telling him I have been getting too invested in this, that I have feelings for him beyond lust and it’s hurting me. He was very soft and gentle with me during this conversation. He said he had a feeling we’d need to have this talk this weekend, that he’d have to say something. “But you didn’t say anything. I had to,” I said. He said yeah, he’s a wuss.
He said of course he has feelings for me too but he doesn’t want a commitment. I told him I’m not asking for one since I’m not really interested in an LDR, but the status quo is not right and I have to say something. I definitely revealed too much about what’s been going on under my surface, because I’d been bottling it up all this time. He apologized for hurting me but I ended up brushing it off and accepting all the blame.
He poured on the flattery (in between pecks on the lips): that I’m so smart and lovely and sexy and funny and engaging and I deserve a real relationship but he can’t give it to me. I know I deserve a real relationship but that doesn’t mean I’ll ever find it, you know? This seemed better than nothing to me, sadly. So we’re both crying. But as he’s being all Mr. Sensitive he’s saying things that are really insulting in retrospect. “All I wanted was some affection and companionship …”, “A relationship would mean I’d have to call you regularly and get involved in your life” (as opposed to just taking me for a ride in his life), when I said our time together had been meaningful to me he agreed … I made him feel attractive again. He did the same thing for me but I actually cared for him! Then he starts talking about how much pain he’s in, the trauma from his last relationship, he’s just trying to put band-aids on the pain, etc. So before I know it I end up comforting HIM! We spent a lot of time just sitting there, crying, asking each other what we should do. I said I could sell the concert ticket I’d bought. Then I guess he couldn’t take it anymore and he left. We started at each other at my door, said goodbye and that was it.
I don’t expect to hear from him. I know I’ve outlived my usefulness to him. But I am grieving this loss very hard. I wish I knew when exactly things changed in his mind, how he knew we’d have to have a talk that weekend? I feel like my whole summer was an illusion and I can’t even enjoy the fact that I had the best sex of my life because he barely considered me a person. My urge to “tell him about himself” is so strong. Yes, I’ve read all the BR entries about that. I feel so foolish for accepting the blame, not calling him on his crap, and letting him leave my apartment with his hands clean. I wish I’d had the presence of mind to tell him I know I’ve been used as an emotional airbag and ego boost, that I saw the condoms. I hate to think that he considers me a naive dope.
While I know I’ve been used I’m also obsessing about where I went wrong. What could I have done differently to change the outcome? Now I wonder if I wasn’t so much of a doormat, or had a lower sex drive, he’d have respect for me and want me to be his girl. Not that I want to be with a man who thinks that way! It is hard for me to know whether he is EU, because I figured: he was about to marry a woman he was with for six years! He is so close to his family! (one of the things that impressed me about him) He is not stereotypically masculine! Sucks to know that I may have just caught him during an EU time, and if he weren’t fresh off a break-up we might work out. Or, he is just EU with me because I am that unimportant. Soon enough he will have a real girlfriend who’s not me. I’m hurting and still swell with hope each time I get a text. It’s never him.
Thanks for reading. Much love.
Trainee, you are really mind-effing yourself.
This was just a brief interlude in your life. It does not need to cast a pall over the rest of your entire existence. If you reframe how you think, this can be the brief interlude that made you know that sex can and should be fun for both parties. Never forget that.
His actions told you he wanted casual and noncommittal. WHY do we INSIST on the words when actions speak so much louder? You said he never seemed truly interested in YOU, who YOU were….does that automatically make him a pig? You kept choosing to see him. At any time you could have said outright – ‘I only want to be with a man who wants to be my mate for life, is that what you want too? ‘ Instead, you chose to spin fantasies, and when you found out you were in that fantasy alone, now he is an EUM or AC or you’re not good enough or your timing was bad or you missed you last chance at good sex with a nice man who could love you or…PLEASE….enough already.
It was a brief encounter. If casual is not your thing, don’t let it happen again, with HIM or anyone.
Lesson learned.
And if I don’t seem sympathetic, I apologize. I think I’m jealous. I’d love to have the problem you are having. Great sex…?…kissing…?…with someone who is not trying to own all my free time….but who likes me enough to do things with me occasionally..?
One woman’s prison is another woman’s paradise!
Trainee,
I agree with Elgie R, you caught him just out of a relationship, it doesn’t make him EU at all. It appears that you have been out of your relationship longer so you have moved on and you are at a stage where you are looking for more. He needs time to move on and get over his recent ex, yes, maybe you were just a band aid but I don’t think that makes him a bad person or you somebody who isn’t deserving of more. I just think it was bad timing and that is all it appears to be.
I don’t think he’s a bad person either now. That makes it harder. I didn’t dodge a bullet from a bad guy; I was rejected by a good one. Thanks for being gentle.
A good one? Not so fast. No need to put him on a pedestal, either.
Trainee, you didn’t do anything wrong. He was not ready or wanting anything serious. His actions and words showed. Your story reminded me mine a bit. Although mine lasted for almost a year, with a hot pursuit at first, cooling down, and cold later, and with “commitment” and possibly a relationship (words no actions). At least you got out soon enough. Yet it still hurts whether it’s 3 months or 12 months. I know. It’s interesting how I read you now and remember everything I thought back then after he broke up with me or after he just contacted me recently 4 months after 1st NC breaker and ruined my healing process, so I have been in the 2 weeks of rollercoaster of all the emotions associated with grief: very fast from bargaining to acceptance and all over again. Having glimpses again: if, could have, should have. So I understand your feelings. I have been healing for 8 months after the breakup and learned a lot about myself, him, thanks to BR. You didn’t do anything wrong. There is nothing you could have done differently. That’s what he wanted at the time and he actually acted that and told you about it. But I understand you refused to hear. I refused to hear and see too. I was so sexually and emotionally attracted to me. I became blind and deaf to any warnings. So it’s perfectly understanding you chose to not see him for what he was and what he was offering. He wanted a casual relationship. Maybe after some time goes by and he heals from his breakup, he might contact you. We never know what future might bring. But in that situation – during your summer – it was purely casual for him. I am sorry to say that but as an outsider that’s how I see it, reading your story. I know you are hurt. Please be gentle with yourself. Don’t judge yourself. You didn’t do anything wrong. You opened up and trusted him. This is your first relationship as I understand after your long-term one. You became a bit rusty on dating and figuring out men because you have been with one for so long. Again: you did nothing wrong. It’s the situation. Different people, different needs, wrong timing as well. Nothing you could influence. I would say, you don’t need articles on EUs and ACs. Read something that will help you focus on YOU right now. As you are healing and moving on from all your past. Take care of you. Hugs.
Trainee
Your post reminded me of several similar situations I had been in Pre BR. I feel for you as I know the anxiety and frustration in your situation. You liked him, he appeared to like you. He didn’t lay his cards on the table from the start though and neither did you. Once upon a time, at the same age, I was you, hoping that if I played it cool enough I would get ‘chosen’, if I didn’t get too ‘heavy’ and discuss the relationship we might be having one. The key point in this situation is that you don’t really know each other. It always seems too official to have the “are we in a relationship” discussion after you’ve had sex. You are mourning someone you knew briefly and I understand that this is painful as the fantasy has not been invaded by real life. I was very disturbed about the same situation a few years ago And it took me a long time to realise that I barely knew the other person. That this stranger could have such a pull on my emotions and cause me sleeplessness and anxiety.
The time has come to be gentle on yourself, it’s not been that long since you broke up with Mr LongTerm. While you wait for your next relationship you could take up embroidery and hand wringing like a Victorian spinster waiting for a husband or you could go crashing beautifully into your next adventure not even caring about becoming involved with someone and leave all of this behind. Honestly, when this one does come nudging back, cock in hand waiting for Round 2, (inevitable) you will be far too busy and happy engaging in a whole new chapter of your life. Think of this episode as cutting your teeth, slightly painful but easily forgotten.
In the future, if you aren’t sure where you stand with someone, don’t have sex with them as it clouds the view. I learned that being honest about my expectations gained me enormous respect instead of the ridicule that I imagined.
I wish you well, I urge you to let it go and you’ll be amazed by what the rest of your life has to offer. Today is just the start of it.
Trainee, I’m full of admiration for you. You have a healthy and intact self-preservation alarm system, and you paid attention to it when it went off. You ‘listened to his actions’, you read the vibes, you connected the dots. You drew the conclusion you needed to draw based on the information in front of you, as hard as that must have been. You didn’t hide from the truth. And then you took a deep breath and did what’s right for you. You chose self-respect over months or years spent on your knees begging for emotional crumbs. Good! I’m sure many ladies here wish they had the same insight and courage at the time.
When he says he won’t give you a real relationship, you have to believe him. His ex was an addict, so until recently he was accustomed to the unconventional priorities and misbehaviours that are part and parcel of all that. Now he seems only interested in arranging his life in a way that openly allows him to have multiple sexual partners. This doesn’t sound too healthy — physically or emotionally.
The good news is that other men are much more capable and willing to swing from the chandelier with you AND offer you the relationship you want when you jump down from the chandelier.
“The main image that you need to correct is of your ex. It doesn’t change that you enjoyed good times together but they have unfolded in a way that shows traits that don’t make them the loyal, loving, caring, respectful, trustworthy person that you deserve to be with. They’re showing you that it’s the right thing that you’ve broken up.”
I recently broke up with my boyfriend about 3 months ago, it was all for good reasons. I had some signs of this during the relationship, but I also saw lots of potential and really hoped things would work. One night in particular everything came to a head in a very dramatic way. He behaved in an immature, cruel, inappropriate and disrespectful way during the break up. Something I couldn’t ignore or work thru anymore, leading me to end the relationship. I knew this wasn’t a good sign. We reconnected a month later, after he called. We talked about the breakup, he stated his wishes to try to work things out. I wasn’t interested at the time, there were lots of things I had to think about and work thru on my own. But we continued to sporadically reengage with each other. I wasn’t exactly comfortable with this since I was still hurt, and dealing with my own part in the demise of the relationship, he was aware of this. I then started to doubt the end of the relationship, even started to reconsider the relationship. Thinking maybe I overreacted, or we could work things out, despite living far away now. We hadn’t really talked about the breakup or where we stood in terms of the relationship during this time. And I was still very attached and emotional about things. I knew I would have to make a decision as far as the relationship, because I knew my continued contact was very hurtful and draining to myself. In fact I had not worked at all towards moving on with my life, I was stuck. Then recently about a month ago I noticed a change, he seemed more distant. I decided it was about time we had a discussion about where we stood and talked about whatever we wanted to clear up about the breakup and relationship. We talked about the breakup, although he didn’t seem interested. He then told me he had moved on and had reconnected with his ex-gf and had been together a month after we broke up. I was surprised to say the least, but wished him the best and told him I wasn’t comfortable with our continue contact. This happened about a week ago. At that time he reassured me he would call me the next day to continue talking about things. I wasn’t optimistic about this since it was obvious that he wasn’t interested in talking about it anyway. Besides I had the information I was seeking. He didn’t call. Yesterday he called me out of the blue, I went ahead and answered. This time we talked at length about things, and also told him not to contact me anymore. Not only because I must move on, but also because the realization that he had been talking to both me and his other ex at the same time made for sneaky type behavior I wanted no part in. There’s nothing really to think about he has showed me it was right to be broken up. I just wish I hadn’t reconnected, and doubted my decision, because now I have to initiate NC. Day 1, UUgggghh 🙁
chickpea
He probably called you out of the blue because the other one has gone out of town or dumped his arse, don’t engage with him. you’ve had your discussion, he’s fishing if he calls again.
he reconnected with his ex?
Don’t be the next ex he reconnects with.
Stay strong.
theseamstress
Thanks for the feedback and support! You are so right, before he called me few days ago I did get a few fishing texts, I ignored, then the phone call. During the call I did get the feeling that he was confused about things. He told me that actually he hadn’t moved on. His excuse for reengaging with his ex was that he wasn’t married or engaged, lol. He also told me she had no idea he was also talking to me, but that he wasn’t talking to me to patch things up or anything. WTH
Ha he’s hedging his bets, if it doesn’t work out with the ex then you will still be there!!! Men like that are boomerangs who find it easier to try to go back to an ex because they are too lazy to try with someone new. Same thing with my AC, recent contact after 6 months of nothing, obviously things aren’t going well with her but I am lucky to say that after seeing him I realise I am no longer attracted to or interested in him..yay me 🙂 Mind you that took a long hard 18 months to get to this stage but get there I did.
Sandy
GOOD FOR YOU!!! I hope I get there too. What a bunch of scoundrels, lol. Too bad I wont be there anymore.
Very true @ thesemstress
I am just learning that he has been one chapter in my story, I am now learning how to turn that page, not the whole book. Thanks to my family (BR)
I ran into an ex today. An ex-BFF. The very BFF who is the female equivalent of ACMM. Haven’t had any contact with her in over 20 years, and here we are, both in line at the local jerk chicken establishment…..two people away from each other. We had been friends from junior high school through our early thirties.
BR helped me see the pattern I have, of choosing my close friends from the pool of people who are funny, smart, sexually attractive and always thinking about themselves FIRST. “What’s in it for me?” is their motto.
I realize they never mislead…not in my case anyway…..they just allowed me to people please to my heart’s content.
We talked, it was a little awkward but pleasant, no hugs or anything…..I asked questions about her life…she asked nothing about me…told me I hadn’t aged…I was vain enough on the inside to be happy that I’d lost 43 pounds in the last two years and kept it off so I am the weight I was when she knew me before….. And neither of us offered the cell numbers to “stay in touch”. She seemed a little thrown to see me, a little distant.
I remember we parted ways back in the day when I got the strong stomach pulling vibe that she was going to flirt with AND take the guy I was seeing at the time. She could easily do it – she is stunningly attractive – and she wanted to hurt me, I could feel it…jealousies over career choices, me being financially solvent and able to help her with money but resenting me at the same time…… I’d had a different BFF steal a man on another occasion, and I was not about to let it happen again, not with this woman who had meant so much to me….it would be a hurt I would not recover from easily. I backed off of contacting her then; the friendship faded to black.
Some of my deepest emotional hurts were inflicted through my dealings with her.
Anyway…back to today…it interested me that we did not seek to rekindle. I had NO DESIRE to rekindle. And I fast forwarded in my brain to running into ACMM 20 years from today…what is there to rekindle? He did not really get to know me as a person, and I don’t know him.
Elgie R- It’s bittersweet running into these people, isn’t it? The painful memories of who they are and what we unconsciously agreed to are bitter. Yet, seeing them again in a more conscious, self-aware state is sweet.
Years ago an exbf contacted me because he owed me money & was in a position to pay me back (my pattern is choosing selfish men with consciences). He married my (now former) bff who was all in an uproar over our conversing on the phone. She was so obviously insecure that her hubbie could have been petting the dog & she would be jealous of the dog. Her hubbie verbally abused her while on the phone with me, told her to “shut up”, called her “stupid”, etc. As much pain as I was in over their relationship, my heart went out to her & I became aware that I dodged a bullet by his breaking up with me & my ending the fwb nonsense. So…I got my money back and closure too. Yes, bittersweet but it was good for me.
Rosie,
I had a bff that married one of my exes. It was unfortunate because they got divorced and she lost a friendship because she valued that deadbeat man over my friendship. I haven’t seen her in years, but she was one of my best friends since middle school. It’s sad that women will sacrifice a genuine friendship for the love of a unworthy man. Oh well, tis life.
Stephanie,
Breaking girl code. Not good! Don’t understand the attraction of men who already attached to others, as it should send off an alarm they cannot be trusted.
Sometimes, I think we are our own worst enemies.
Oh, Rosie. Spot on. The encounter has been playing over my thoughts since yesterday…bittersweet thoughts as you say….no tears or anything. When I came into work today I wrote out my feelings, thinking I’d post them here…but after writing them down I felt released and did not need to post them.
You succinctly stated my feelings here: ‘the painful memories of who they are and what we unconsciously agreed to’.
The run in was good for me too. Self-awareness is swe-eet. Made me commit to myself more strongly. Although the lid was on the ACMM coffin, yesterday’s run-in makes me feel like there are nails in that coffin now. Don’t want him. I am not that woman.
And OMG, you dodged a bullet…karmic justice there.
My X has a harem which seems to be dwindling down in participants. Pathetic, he’s still doing the stripper niece whom he was a major influence on her poor decisions. Pity.
He likes to name call and belittle, but when I was involved with him I caught on to that and would talk back to him if he called me a name.
It’s easy to find his other victims in our county – not that I go around and bring his name up in every conversation, ha, it’s that he effed so many of the women! Small town. We share truthful info with each other to reveal just what a sick predator he really is, and for me, this has helped me knock him all the way off the pedestal I put him on.
When men discredit women aren’t they trying to make themselves more important? Yeah. Good luck with that.
AngelFace- RE: men discrediting women: Sometimes I’ll browse men’s blogs. So many of the posts are written by braggarts (sp?) who speak of women only in terms of “targets” and “conquests”. They go on & on of how they “got” this one and that one but if you pay attention, you’ll notice that all these “victories” have one common theme: The “conquered” were all at a desperate time in their lives. Thus, all these so-called “men” are obliviously insulting themselves in their bragging attempts. By bragging about conquering desperate women, they’re saying that only desperate and naive women are giving them the time of day. If I were a guy, I don’t know if I’d brag about that…
Hello Rosie,
As a man I can say that I have similar talks the circle of my friends. But basically the talks are never in humiliating way, it’s more like “Yesterday I got laid.” or “I had a lot of fun with a girl last summer.” and etc.
It think, that some women do something like the men that you are describing above. I was witness of women’s talk about how they humiliated their BF or current suitor, how they dated 5 men in the same time and how they really enjoyed it. For me this sounded like they were just looking for revenge of previous relationship, but according to me they were looking for this revenge in the wrong place.
I still can’t understand what is the point of humiliating the opposite sex, but seems that the both sexes are doing it.
This is such a great post, Natalie.
For anyone tempted to give as good as they get when you find out your ex (or whatever) has begun some sort of whisper campaign – don’t go there! Keep your dignity and sanity intact and seek a professional to talk to, and when you do talk, don’t use the guy’s (or woman’s) real name.
Keep you head high, conduct yourself with respect and realize that your future is bright. Shake off friends and acquaintances who don’t have your best interest at heart (who gossip about your or others – if they do it about others, they do it about you when you’re gone!).
Don’t feel the need to correct anyone who believes false things about you. Don’t get drawn back in to a mess someone else made. Get up and leave.
Still Mr. U- I’m replying by phone so I hope my reply is somewhere near your reply to me, lol. First, yes, bragging does take place in both sexes. Thank you for the correction. 🙂 I think you made a good observation regarding women’s motives. It does seem as though men brag to showcase for each other and women brag out of pain from a present or previous relationship. My point, though, is all the bragging really shows the pathetic place the braggart is in. After all, if getting a desperate or naive woman into bed is worth bragging about, this must be the best the braggart can do. Again, if I were a man, I wouldn’t be bragging about this. If running an ex’s name through the mud or “dating” 5 different men is something to brag about, how pathetic and desperate this makes the woman seem.
As far as feeling humiliated by someone’s bragging about “conquering” me, I can only feel humiliated if I feel responsible for his behavior/motives or if I was after validation/approval or if I didn’t know that I should be the one to be angry that my trust was violated. Otherwise, why should I feel humiliated over someone else’s bad behavior/motives toward me? I was fired once due to lies said about me and the undermining of my authority due to jealous co-workers. I didn’t feel humiliated nor vengeful. I felt strangely peaceful and strong because I knew I was innocent. I found another job rather quickly that set me on the path to creating a career goal that I would never have thought I was capable of achieving but I am! 🙂
This post isn’t just for you, Still Mr. U, it’s for anyone reading this who feels broken and humiliated over someone dragging your name through the mud and costing you much more than just a bruised ego. Maybe this person has the power to rob you of seeing your children or keeping your job or what have you. I can’t promise you that you’ll get what you want or even what you need externally but you can get what you need internally to turn this situation around to work in your favor down the road. You can do this! 🙂
Hello Rosie,
Thanks for the detailed answer, because it really gives clear view of your view about the bragging. I really like this blog, but seems that most of the visitors here are females and there is not so much information about the females EU / AC. Will describe 2 stories, one fresh about a friend of mine and one about a girl.
Story I:
Bargaining is funny and sad thing. This Friday I was out with friends and I got to know interesting details about one of them. Somehow the conversation got the point that I must have more fun and to “socialize” more with the local girls. I stated, that right now I am not good relationship material … but after that my friend started to talk about his “victories”.
He explained, how he is constantly cheating to his gf and showed my naked pictures of a girl that he had sex before a couple of months. I was surprised, because first I don’t get how some people allow other people to get naked pictures of them. The girl on the photos was obviously posing. So what can I say, obviously she was smiling and enjoying it.
I asked him 3 questions:
Q ( 1 ): Does your gf knows about your affairs ( aka are you in casual / open relationship )?
A ( 2 ): No there is no serious relationship, but she gets angry and she suspects me, that I am cheating ( Obviously he was creating some drama and this girl staued with him probably because her insecurities ). And you know the women likes to be involved in some drama, also if they feel, that they the center of you universe they are leaving.
Q ( 2 ): Why you are in relationship in case you are cheating?
A ( 2 ): You know if they don’t catch you then it’s not a cheating. I will never cheat in marriage. When I meet the one, then I will not cheat on her.
Q ( 3 ): Don’t you have the feeling, that you are challenging yourself to cheat? Imagine that you find the one, but how you will know that she is the one? Will you try to cheat to prove that?
A ( 3 ): Here he became a bit shocked and actually he couldn’t answer with confidence. He basically repeat, that he will now cheat in marriage.
Story II:
I will conclude, that in the past I met female versions of my friend and as my friend they were so confident in their actions. I mention a girl that was dating 5 men at the same moment. The reason was because she was looking for revenge, because her ex was cheating on her. She told me the story 4 years after she was doing this “magic” with the 5 man and obviously she was still angry to her ex and didn’t give a f*ck about the 5 men, that she was playing with.
What I can say is that I learned a lesson and it’s to use the dating as a discovery phase: https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/dating-is-a-discovery-phase-where-you/
Thanks.
Mr. U,
This asshole actually said that you’re not cheating unless you’re caught? What did you say? How would this dude feel if it happened to his sister? Also, if it’s not serious, then why doesn’t he have open relationships?
She’s an asshole, too!!!! Was she sleeping with all of them? Did any of the men think they were in a relationship?
Both stories reflect how self-serving society has become. Me, me, me!!!!! I would bet money that both will cheat on their prospective spouses, as character does not change!
Hello Allison,
This situations that I described are extreme. Hopefully not all my friends are like this.
He was confident, that his current relationship is not serious, but I told him that may be his gf thinks, that they are in serious relationship. I didn’t try to teach him. He is near 4 years old than me, but showed him my disapproval and asked him some extra questions, so at one moment he was lost.
About her: I think, that she was sleeping with some of them, with the other she was just spending some time. I think, that she started to do this couple of days after the breakup with the bf who was cheating on her. So she had rebound with 5 boys. I hear some other stories about girls and boys, that really freak out after breakup and do things like this. She she stated, that with her current bf they are from 2 years and she is happy.
I wish them all the best.
Mr. U,
I’m glad you asked the questions. You’re right about not teaching, as this is who he is.
Glad to hear she has worked through her stuff!!!!!
You sound very insightful!
Allison, I’ll bet my last few dollars as well to your last few comments in that they have no self-restraint now while they are fooling around, they will certainly have zero self-restraint when married. The guy in particular mentioned by Mr U is highly delusional as in his mind (he thinks) he’ll be loyal to ‘the one’ alas his body will betray him big time as he has conditioned himself to copulating here, there, and everywhere, and with anyone…..zero discipline.
The people from the stories are real professionals and they look like good people, but obviously it’s not good to be in relationship with them. Of course with the time they/we unfold and then, if the person on the receiving end has good self esteem will walk away.
Everybody has a chance to chance, but we also need to count, that the time is a factor. As “Still Mr. U” I can say that I was Unavailable before my epiphany and I am still Unavailable. Now I am working on my Unavailability and commitment issues, but I have a chance to review my previous relationships and to see how I hurt some girls. I am happy that the I wasn’t an AC and the NC with the girls was natural and nobody of us bothered each other. I was future faker, but I actually future faked myself and this affected my partners.
My choice is to change and to move slow!
What I realize is how some people normalize their behavior. For example they take example from their friends. It’s like if my friend does it, that it’s normal, I can do it as well. You know, when we are out with the boys we talk about relationships and experience. The girls do the same, they share experience. I remember at least 2 stories, how girls used as excuse the statement: “The girl Y from my company freaks out her BF, then this is normal an I do the same with mine … just to be more interesting.” The same with the boys. Good example is my friend, who regularly is cheating and tells the stories to us. Some boys will think, how normal and cool is this.
When I had my epiphany I was looking for advice in the circle of my friends. Basically I never pointed my ex, I just shared what happened with me and I didn’t do this in the circle of our mutual friends. Some suggested to me to go out and to have sex with random girls. Other suggested “A love is forgotten by another love!”. Other suggested to call her and to say something bad ( This should help me to heal ). There were some other people who don’t have PHD of relationships and never read BR, but they just suggested: “Do not engage anymore!” … I chose NC!
I am just reading BR since one year and three months and I read so often in the reader’s comments: “… EUM/AC …” and how they know that the person is EUM/AC and they still engage.
Please READERS do not engage. Take your time, work on your issues and flush this person from your mind/life, no matter if they are still messing with you!
‘I am just reading BR since one year and three months and I read so often in the reader’s comments: “… EUM/AC …” and how they know that the person is EUM/AC and they still engage.’
With smear campaigns – its a technique as Natalie says to Control and make this ‘engage-ment’ carry on/ making it more difficult to mentally and emotionally dis-engage because you are torn by your belief to ‘look after yourself’ by remaining vigilent at all times for signs of further abuse/need for defense/people pleasing behaviour/withdrawing ie focusing on OTHERS – instead of focusing actually on yourself!
THUMBS UP!
oona,
You are right!
I actually understand that this is a bit harsh:
‘I am just reading BR since one year and three months and I read so often in the reader’s comments: “… EUM/AC …” and how they know that the person is EUM/AC and they still engage.’
Yes it’s easy to say it when you are in complete NC with the AC/EUM, but of course when you are still in the “game” you can’t get objective score and the recognize the AC as AC. This reminded me how desperate I was before one year and how I enjoyed each crumb of attention.
Thanks again to this blog and the shared reader’s stories!
Get better friends?
Still Mr. U and Allison- I had this well thought-out, lengthy reply going on in my head but, Allison, you said it best.
Allison, you get some flack sometimes but I love your no-nonsense, short, straightforward replies. 🙂
Rosie,
Big thank you! I love your, responses, too! 🙂
I know I can be on the extreme side regarding cheating. Personally, I have never been cheated on – not that I know of – but have heard the heartbreaking stories of children and partners, and how it has impacted their lives. The kids tend to follow the pattern of the parents, and the partners are never able to trust again. Heartbreaking!
We must put more thought into the people we get involved with, and how those actions affect others lives.
Thanks Rosie for offering a ray of hope as far as being a serious victim of smear campaigns. It has been three years since I was in my ‘relationship’ and I am still dealing with the ramifications of the ex’s serious smear campaign – even with full non contact. Losing work, support in communities, new friends, new colleagues and being harassed/verbally abused by his believers in roughly three rural/local communities – from my new next door neighbour to complete strangers – almost costing in loosing my home also.
For anyone out there in a similar position, the following things help me.
1. Document all weird or possible happenings of smearing of your reputation from your ex’s or others connected to them, in a diary, factually. No matter how small. Just in case legal help/protection is needed.
2. Do not bite back or eat yourself when you feel so shocked you don’t defend yourself immediately – do something positive for yourself/ treat yourself.
3. Try and find or develop your own solid sensible form of support that will never believe any of the rubbish they are saying/ give you good advice that actually helps / listen to you and stick with them and tell them what is going on as and when it happens – fully or write it all out in letters.
4. Get your own life OUTSIDE/AWAY from ALL of these people – do NOT try to defend yourself to them/ or try to get them to ‘love’ you – they use it to take it back to the person they originally got it from to start the whole fire up all over again. They are enjoying acting as the judge over you, they are enjoying the drama, they are displacing their own guilt possibly by judging you harshly and they won’t want to give that up lightly.
5. Put boundarys in place with them and keep them – they are NOT treating you with love which you deserve – if they won’t treat you with respect you do have the choice to walk away and keep walking away – no matter how ‘rude’ it looks – you have a right to defend yourself and not to put yourself, or stay, in abusive situations.
6. Hang out only with people who treat you with respect and wouldn’t believe gossip or betray you in a million years.
7. What others think is none of your business – they get one boundary and that is it – what is your business is you and what you want and think and feel.
If this is a repetitive situation get some deep counselling/ therapy that will look into the origins of this for you – find ways to cope with the serious betrayal, any guilt feelings, any feeling of lack.
Useful sayings for people not behaving respectfully are ‘I’m busy”I’m too busy right now…’ ‘I’m sure you are amazing but I’m not interested.’ ‘It’s not my cup of tea’ Repeat once if necessary and then if they are still going on – nothing – walk away. That will tell any decent person all they need to know – if it doesn’t they aren’t the great person you need to hang around.
Remember the next time someone comes to gossip to you about somebody – they are talking more about themselves than the person named. Do not attribute the person with the qualities they want you to believe. Make your own mind up based on actual experiences you have had yourself. They WILL also gossip about you and any problems or issues you may have. Steer clear of the gossip. Get your entertainment elsewhere, healthily.
Any more advice or lines to extract yourself from this ongoing negativity from smear campaigners is really welcome.
The best rebuttal in this situation is to live your life well instead of hiding away or devoting your life to defending and convincing this person or their homies (or cronies). It doesn’t mean that they’ve ‘gotten away with it’ – you cannot force feed your ex or their ‘audience’ the true version of events. Trust that their actions will manifest themselves in their lives in some way and go about your business, probably with your teeth gritted at first.
FANTASTIC. Best advice you could give for this situation. There is a lot to be said for self-control at first, and keeping your dignity – then the lies simply aren’t believeable.
Also, get away. Get some new friends. Try a new interest. Move on. De-tox the social circle for a bit.
Your real friends will come back to you, even if they’ve heard the lies. The ones who believe them and don’t come back don’t deserve to be in your life in the first place.
Yes, having lived it; it’s true.
I’m really looking forward to saying ‘having lived it’ past tense – so true – it gives me great hope. Yep really good reminder Ethelready / Natalie – gritting teeth right now – pushing through – and had my head down focused on MY life all this afternoon…sorted a new interest! – outside of this area – and it was free, sorted some other things I needed doing!
Life since BR has usually not been so difficult because of following the above posts – simply amazing but when its back in a bad patch/when I find a new pocket from the smear campaign or the sycophants think they have ‘got me’ on something else –
At these times there is a war inside between feeling like I need to be on full alert to defend myself ie watching them and knowing what they are getting up to – so I can stop them/pre-empt their behaviour/defend myself before they do anything too stupid/hurtful or…..OR actually getting on with MY life. When I do the first – it is swimming in mud and winds me up (making me more angry and wanting revenge)- when I get on with my life it usually eventually calms right back down again. But it takes some grip!! over myself. (Which is if you think of it what we are actually expecting them to do.)
As a result of the smear campaign I have hidden definately. It was terrifying but I have reminded myself that it was far far far worse and it is now nowhere near that mainly because I am soooo careful, I have literally cut off from everyone not good for me – even if they seem nice – in my experience it is quite a local gang and everyone round here, usually has some link with one or two of the harem of sycophants of my ex and either cannot resist joining in or withdraw from me in order to protect themselves.
Ethelready I am going to go through your suggestions one by one till I get through this. Many thanks once more. Think developing more to my social circle – away from the puppets – is definately long overdue and really good idea.
This recently happened to me with my NOW ex ass clown bf! (Thanks Nat!) He refused to take any responsibility for our failed relationship & has blamed me for almost 9 months! I’ve let him be verbally abusive & manipulate me as well. When he blew hot & cold for the last time last Sat., gas-lighting & triangulating me, I dropped him like a hot potato & changed my #.(Thanks to Nat’s blog, “Faking A Future to Get What They Want In The Present.”)
He sent angry & abusive emails & said he met another woman who thinks I’m bipolar, a rat for what I did to him, a lady of the night, etc etc etc. He also said that he told her that he hated me, destroyed our pics we recently took on vacation together & she told him not to.
Yes, hearing that hurt because after all, she’s new, a stranger & wasn’t present in our relationship. I feel betrayed because he should be on my team. But I’m better off because he’s been showing his true colors for months. He isn’t loyal & that isn’t love. That was the straw that broke the camel’s back & what I needed to let go permanently.
I cut all contact with him for good. I changed my #s & deleted my email like I’m going into hiding. It hurts when I think of my love for him but I’m much better off without him. It is liberating to take control & leave the ass clown who has always caused pain, anxiety & lowered my self esteem!
Stay strong, Ladies!
Ohh Lilly. Lilly, Lilly, Lilly. Stop beating yourself up over this. You just need to keep practising how to pull the flush handle more quickly & forcefully, that’s all. I recommend 6 mths of NC (to remain permanent) with this abusive man & no dating in that time. Then, draw up a list of two things; one what you want in a person you see as a life partner potential. The other with your deadset bottom line deal breakers. Then, when you’re ready, date in a very specific way. Have THREE relationships in a row (these may be sexual or not – this is for & those concerned to decide) where the focus for you will be on practising pulling the flush handle as soon as you realise the person isn’t what you’re looking for. If you don’t meet your true love / life partner as one of the three (in which case don’t flush!), you will by the end of this exercise, feel more confident in your skills of getting out of relationships that aren’t right for you.
Also, I second everything Rev said. Good to see you Revs.
~sits down with Lilly & Rev to share some Tim Tams & a nice pot of tea~ 🙂
Otherwise re males & females bragging about sexual conquests, I beg to differ. Generally speaking, females with multiple partners or ‘too many notches on their belts’ are looked down upon by males & females, alike. Why? F
Generally speaking females who are even thought to be promiscuous (let alone actually being so) are denigrated as ‘sluts & whores’ ect whilst males that are promiscuous are considered ‘studs’. There are always exceptions but this is the general trend. Visit any ‘slut shaming’ internet site to see what I mean. Innocent female members of the public vilified on these sites are not even neccessarily promiscuous; usually they are judged this way merely for how they dress! There are no ‘promiscuous male, or even ‘looks like he might possibly be a promiscuous male shaming’ web sites however. This is because for males a greater number of sexual conquests relates to greater status. For females this relationship is inverse. I will leave this here. I am too tired to provide a feminist anaysis of why society denigrates women that are promiscuous except to say this is a basic double standard of patriarchal societies, where women acheieve greater status for their chastity, because this supports their roles as mothers & wives.
I would that if a male is friends with another male that cheats in relationships, & regularly associates with that person (or persons) then they too, are highly likely to be cheaters also. This has been researched in the area of psychology & found to be so. Again, there are always exceptions but this is the general trend. Hence, to get idea of a potential mates likelihood of infidelity, note the behaviour of those he associates with. Birds of a feather stick together.
I am feeling great after noting ‘potential for abuse’ by an ex that contacted me via facebook a month or two back. He tried to rewrite history TO ME about our relationship many years ago & after this, when I asked him to please refrain from further contact after initial emails & only ONE ph call, did not respect my request. I blocked him on facebook & email & now screen my calls in case he calls. When he called once, I just didn’t acknowledge who I was, told him he had the wrong number & hung up! Too easy! (He thinks I changed my number as I told I’d be doing ths. I did attempt to do so, but after the telco failed to do so promtly, after 3 wks, I decided to just leave it the same as I’ve changed my number a couple of times already a few yrs bk, to eradicate a different ex from my life)!
This guy is a total deadbeat. No other way to describe it. I got email invites to join his twitter account a few weeks back. He must be delusional! I just deleted them.
Meanwhile, I got a rescue dog that’s now my best friend & we do walks & dog training daily. His medical care has also kept me focused on something positive & this week I started back at uni (1 subject only online to start with due to chronic illness but it’s a start!)
I dated this guy for only 9 mths when I was 19 or 20. I had a stable partner I’d been living with for a cpl of years & our relationship had ended months before I started dating this guy but my defact was taking ages to actually move out of my home as he’d been diagnosed with a life threatening illness (I didn’t know this when I ended things).
This ex that contacted me all these years later had the gall to say I only ‘used him’ for a place to stay! Hilarious as he was in fact HOMELESS when I first started dating him whilst I in fact had a home (that I was just waiting on my former defacto to move out of). Later when the guy I dated (who is the ex that recently made contact) got a place to live I stayed with him for ONE WEEK as a breather from things at home (everything was above board & my former defacto knew I was now dating someone else. We’d been seperated 6 mths before I met the new guy). New guy treated me like SHIT in the week I stayed with him so I ended it with him too!
I now know, under any & all circumstances ALL EXS are off limits even to talk to, as they are exs for a reason. Especially from that time period. Clearly dating a homeless guy to start with was rediculous (he was my age & had a kind of swagger I fell for wheras my former defacto was 17 yrs my senior ie too old for me)
I dont need to worry about this ex spreading misinformation about me as we have zero friends in common so there’s noone to spread it to.
Frightening the kinds of awful men that are out there. I’m feeling safe & empowered though. They simply can’t get into my life because I block them as soon as dodgy crap begins. Am feeling much better for it too!
Dear,wonderful, BR ladies,
Just wanted to say a quick thank you to So True, Crystal, BurnedbyaMissUnavailable, A, Grizelda, Pauline and Teach (so happy you are back at uni)for responding to me and I apologise for not replying. Have been unwell for a while which has given me some much needed space to take in everything. I love the BR community so much and it has truly been a lifeline. One of these days I will give back; I promise.
“As humans, we have a disposition to concern ourselves with what others think.”
Very true! Makes you wonder what the world would be like if people weren’t so terrified about their image in the eyes of others…
Some need to make a conscious effort to acknowledge the fact nobody will ever be liked by EVERYONE… things are much easier once we accept that.
It may only be a small part of the puzzle, but it’s important throughout life 🙂