Reading about people’s struggles with dating, relationships and their self-esteem, a recurrent theme crops up – many of these people believe that they ‘can’t’ change. They talk about how ‘impossible’ it is to break habits, change relationship behaviours that are working against them, to fight a compulsion, to set and enforce boundaries, and basically get out of their uncomfortable comfort zone.
Often, they’re caught in a cycle of a long shot mentality, trying to extract love against the odds from a relationship that on some level they recognise they’re not going to be a ‘success’ at. This means that they can’t ‘fail fail’ because they’ve already accepted that they’re going to fail anyway, catering to the self-fulfilling prophecy that validates what they believe.
If you’ve experienced these situations, I’m about to throw a monkey wrench in the works that contradicts this belief that it’s impossible or very difficult to change:
If you have twisted, contorted, bent, back flipped, and basically become a ‘Transformer’, robot in disguise for your relationships, you have been making changes in what are risky, detracting, and at times even dangerous situations, which shows that you can change. In fact, you may even have found yourself in a situation where you made an exception to your normal mode of behaviour because you felt your love for someone was worth it.
You have changed and are capable of change, but if you’ve been doing it in these situations, it seems you only want to change when you know that there’s an eff up at the end of the yellow brick road.
Given the option between making changes that will benefit you because you’ll treat yourself with love, care, trust, and respect, even if it means making uncomfortable decisions that feel crappy initially but far better in the medium to long-term, or making changes that will detract from you and end up ticking the boxes of unhealthy and unrealistic beliefs you hold, you’re opting for what you know.
But if you’re saying that you can’t change or that it’s difficult, too hard, like a punishment to fight the compulsion, this is just not true. You’ve made changes that are difficult, hard, and are actually like doing hard time in Assclownville Prison – you just aren’t believing in changes that don’t have someone else at the heart of them.
If you can adapt your behaviour time and again to accommodate unhealthy relationships and people who have characteristics, qualities, values, and behaviours that are not congruent with your own, why can’t you adapt your behaviour in the other direction to make room for a you that likes and loves you?
From personal experience and the observations of so many relationships, I know that when you’re insecure and have very real fears that seem to permeate your existence, particularly feeling like you’re not good enough and being afraid of failure and making mistakes, you end up putting too much trust in the wrong people and situations and sinking your efforts into inappropriate relationships.
This disconnects you from you – your values including what you say is important to you in order for you to feel happy, good, and to live your life authentically – because you don’t realise how certain behaviours come across.
You may think that you ‘can’t’ change, but really you can if you have ever made excuses, abandoned your boundaries, made exceptions for inappropriate behaviour, tried to fit yourself around an unhealthy relationship, found yourself involved with an attached person, or have found yourself increasingly reliant on texts, email, and the internet.
I don’t think I need to point out, that unless you’re about 12 years old, texts, email, and internet haven’t existed in your lifetime. You have changed your behaviours around these means of ‘communication’ and meeting people.
Here’s the thing you need to consider if you’re still going to remain on the I Can’t Change or It’s Just Too Hard To Change or I Don’t Know If I Can Change tracks:
When you act like someone that doesn’t have boundaries and who appears not to give a rats about themselves, people will treat you as such, especially those that are reliant on you having little or no boundaries for them to dodge acting like a half decent person in a committed relationship.
When you don’t treat and regard yourself with love, care, trust, and respect and get treated as such, it only reinforces what you already think, exacerbating the very fears and insecurities you’re probably not doing the greatest of jobs at hiding.
It’s a vicious cycle, until you force yourself to get off it. On some level, you’ll recognise that your fears and insecurities are distorting what you see, hear, and feel…and yet you can’t, or should I say don’t stop. Why? Because if you did, it would rely on you trusting yourself. I should add as well that this vicious cycle only gets nastier when you realise that you’ve been acting in a manner that detracts from you and then try to correct it and ‘prove’ otherwise – it’s like trying to glue a house back together that has rotting foundations.
The answer isn’t to try to ‘correct’ them – get out. The type of person who would have stuck around hoovering up the fringe benefits of you having little or no boundaries, isn’t interested in seeing you differently – they’d have to see themselves differently too.
The incentive to change is this: how you do things doesn’t work. It doesn’t.
I don’t know anyone who is happy treating themselves badly, and I certainly don’t know of anyone who is genuinely happy and personally secure in a relationship where they have shag all self-esteem and/or they’re being treated poorly.
Some of you only want change to happen in a one mile radius – you just want to make yourselves attractive to the type of person you’ve struggled to win over in the past. This is like saying you only want to make cosmetic changes not deeper, galvanising, life changes.
Who is going to achieve better results? The one that thinks they know better yet again and tries to come up with a ‘winning formula’ for snagging an unavailable person? Or the one that says “I’m not sure where I’m going to end up, but I know where the frick I’ve been, and not treating me with love, care, trust, and respect is no longer an option.”?
Only the incredibly arrogant or the very deluded, continue to throw themselves into oncoming traffic and expect not to get run down. Again. That’s stubbornness of the worst kind; you’re not budging in spite of compelling reasons to do so – experience. Relationship insanity is carrying the same baggage, beliefs and behaviours, choosing same types of people, different package, and expecting a different result.
Change doesn’t come from doing more of the same thing. If you persist in circumventing what you know to be healthy or right for you in terms of your values, it’s just disrespecting yourself by another name. When you keep finding new ways to not believe in yourself and to let your boundaries be busted, all roads lead to unhappy.
This is about making a choice because let’s not forget, that even when you choose not to choose, that’s a choice in itself. Even when you allow yourself to be a passenger in other people’s choices, that too is a choice. You have to choose between a rather painful comfort zone or making change, changes I might add that need to be real changes not faux changes that are just a degree out from your usual mode.
If you’ve done all sorts of things that you never imagined you’d do, have rolled yourself out like a doormat and tried to be ‘good enough’ for people, you can change because you have already been changing – it’s now time to move away from that and head in the direction of you.
Your thoughts?
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You are right, people are capable of changing.
I have put myself under the microscope and examined everything I do wrong (and sometimes right) in relationships. Yes, I used to set myself up for failure. I picked emotionally unavailable people because I was emotionally unavailable.
However, after each bad break up, I believed I had figured out ‘what not to do’ next time… and entered into each new relationship with the ‘idea’ in my head that this man was different, because I surely knew the warning signs. Only to discover, learned habits are very hard to shake, and EU people come in all sorts of packages.
I have spent nearly 3 years now alone. Evaluating myself and healing and learning. Yet still, even though I feel I am the healthiest I have ever been emotionally, and could probably attract an emotionally healthy man, I still have doubt. What if, like all the past times, I am fooling myself? What if I only ‘think’ I have changed and healed? ‘What if’ I again pick yet another EU man just in another form. What if I am still emotionally unavailable. I suppose I will never know, until I get there, but in the meantime I am staying alone and am very happy with it.
I used to believe I was not a complete person if I did not have a man. Our society is so geared about that concept, that you can only be complete in a ‘couple’. I just don’t buy that now. I have never been happier than I am now, and I am single, and alone (except for my 2 year old daughter, and endless family and friends 😉 and have no interest in even entertaining the idea of a date, let alone a committed relationship. I honestly don’t have time for it! I am too important (to me) in my life now.
Barbara, I can relate to so much of what you’re saying. I have recently committed to spending a year on my own in order to fix my awful patterns. I’ve never really been single since I was a teenager. Already I’m starting to see many positive changes. I am just doing so much worthwhile stuff now. Makes me feel sad about the years I spent retarding my personal growth in hopeless relationships. I know you can choose to see even the bad stuff as learning experiences. But honestly, it’s hard to find any lessons at all in some of the situations I’ve put myself in. Maybe that will change in the future.
Shiv, don’t beat yourself up for the ‘wasted’ time… you will learn so much about yourself if you change your focus to be on yourself. I found out that for me, I had very low self-esteem. I allowed my relationship status (and the men I was with) to be what defined me, as I had no real identity and I didn’t love myself. I thought sex was love.
Now that I have learned to truly love myself, and feel a great amount of self esteem, I don’t kick myself for the ‘wasted’ years. I HAD to go through all that I have to become the amazing woman I am today. No use crying over spilled milk as they say. What is done is done, and NONE of those men were worth the pain I put myself through. I forgive myself for being lost and am so proud that I have found self love.
Don’t look for ‘lessons’, just seek to understand WHY you did what you did. It isn’t about the men – it is all about you. Best of luck.
Exactly Shiv – *you* are worthwhile. Sinking your efforts into a poor relationship and other situations and actions that detract from or even abuse you are worthless efoorts. Keep going and enjoy your year!
Barbara
I feel the same but the other day I got chatting to a man at church (single, black man btw so they’re out there), out of politeness more than anything else as he was sat on his own. And we got on famously. Afterwards he was hanging around, possibly to talk to me some more and I RAN.
I think I really could meet someone – if I stop running!
SCARY! I haven’t been on a date in over five years.
Change happens, you can’t stop it.
So let’s all change for the better.
Grace, I have been on dates, here and there, very rare though. One recent fellow wanted to get really serious really fast. RED FLAG! I suspected it was him thinking it was what he needed to do to get in my pants. LOL
I clearly don’t feel like investing any of my time in ‘dating’ and therefore I suppose I know I am not ready – yet.
I know there are good men out there. I certainly don’t paint all men with the same brush. I know many married loving committed family men that I consider my friends. I am sure there are some single men like that too, but really I have no clue where I would (a) find the time to meet them and (b) where they possibly are to even attempt to meet them.
I figure when the universe wants me to find my first ‘real’ love, I will. I am happy to wait. I just hope I don’t mess it up, I just hope I have truly healed myself, when that happens. 🙂
Grace you will stop running when you feel it is right. Best of luck in your journey.
Grace,
I caught myself turning around and, yes, running, when I noticed a guy “noticing” me – I wonder, why? I do not seem to have the reaction when men are uninterested / uninteresting.
P
I think women who like EUMs are afraid of relationships. So a man who is attached, not-interested etc seems non-threatening. Nothing’s gonna happen, right? We’re just friends. He’s married. he lives too far away. He’s too much of an addict. He’s too much off a player. I can handle it. Though of course these men are the most threatening of all to our health.
I may be running from men who are interested but at least I’m no longer running TOWARDS men who are no good for me. As someone has commented, I now find that idea repulsive.
@P and Grace,
Maybe I am just a contrarian tonight but I often find the ones I notice checking me out are usually of the EUM/Assclown/MM variety. And I do run (with the exception of this one MM – never before and never again).
I also know I am usually attracted to sociopaths so it’s my checking out that needs to be checked, in my case.
I have this impulse to flee too! like a super awkward 14 year old who can’t get away fast enough anytime a normal-seeming fella pays even a little attention. Then I wonder why I’m perpetually single!
You have come so far Barbara and the only way is up. The fooling yourself thing is like a relationships version of Imposter Syndrome, something I’m intending to write about. My friend explained one day when we were talking about work and being ‘surprised’ at achievements or things people had said, that she’d read about Imposter Syndrome in a magazine – it’s where you don’t internalise your accomplishments and expect people to accuse you of being a fraud. It’s like any moment now, someone’s going to turn around and say “What the eff are you talking about?” The thing is, you have external evidence of your contentment and personal happiness, and btw, that’s not just your gorgeous daughter. Don’t second guess being happy and healthy (I tell you this as someone who has periodically wondered if it’s all a dream) – embrace it and let it be.
Thank you. 🙂
Such a generous and intelligent post, Natalie. That’s my mind talking. My being is responding as a little kid on a fence, wondering how much this applies to me. I don’t know how much change I need to do (though who does?). Probably a lot – given my jumpiness about all sorts of intimacy issues – but, actually, now I think of it, the biggest changes of this last year have been in myself, being able to be nicer to myself, being quicker at responding to people/situations that are harmful to me, but, also, being gentler in my initial assessments of people/situations (which then makes it easier to leave if you need to, as not the fantasy-lag), being more honest and confident about my needs, being calmer with others. So, yeah, thanks Nat for this. I can change and I have changed. Just need to be less concerned that the changes aren’t translating into obvious relationship outcomes. Need to trust the process, and continue.
BTW, one of my guy friends last night said of my recent short relationships/dates : You need to choose between emotionally smart and rich. Rich guys are rewarded with cash because they are arse-heads. (Not entirely fair, but made me laugh.)
Hey Elle. Nobody knows how much change they need to do. Life is an ongoing journey and at times we’ll experience immense growth and at others, it will be more subtle. There’s always something to learn but I suspect that when you’re being authentic and living in line with your values, hence you feel content within and are just getting on with your life, you won’t be thinking about ‘change’. I never knew how much change I’d need to do or how much I’d end up changing, although at the heart of it, I’m just me, but me with boundaries and self-love. In truth, you won’t know how much you have changed until a situation tests you, or you’re far enough along enjoying life to look back. Try not to be too analytical of the process – you’re doing great.
i think that men who are players are the ones who lose.
the happy men i know and work with have wives and girlfriends that they love a lot and those women are their topmost concern. i get the sense that these men experience a rich fulfillment that a player never will.
i think playboy types are cheating not us, but themselves and i bet 10 to 1, if they found someone to love, who loves them, they would trash that image and go straight into the arms of love. the need for love levels us all.
@ Lynne – Players would have to see that for themselves – no one can love them into loving themselves and that is what it takes – everything else is still betting on potential which leads down the road of trying to be the exception to the rule… a dark and nasty dead end
But yes they are the ones cheating themselves and you if you allow it…
Amen! I’m not into the whole turning a commitment resistant playa into a prince fairtale Movedup.
You’re so right lynne the player types are cheating themselves because most of the time they don’t see a good thing when its right in front of their faces. You would think that type of game playing would get old quickly not to mention down right exhausting. I truly believe its all for show because down deep inside they’re so insecure and afraid of a real relationship.
Nat just got reading your last year’s post “45 Tips For Surviving Christmas/The Holidays Whether You’re Single, In a Relationship, No Contact or Broken Hearted”. It was like a mini-refresher course for keeping sane. Thanks
You’re very welcome MaryC!
you are right Lynne
players don’t get woman for who they are, they get women as a result of the game they played.
Wonder if they have ever been loved for who they really are?
Hi Lynne, I don’t know if the need for love levels us all – some people don’t feel that need or feel it to the same extent. They have greater and different motivations. I’m never comfortable with this fantasy that the ‘right’ woman will change a player – the player has to change themselves. I personally know of a number of player playa’s who, high on the ‘love’ for a particular woman, ‘settled down’ – if they haven’t changed their fundamental mentality, they get itchy feet and cheat.
@lynne – The MM who tried to get in my pants for a year and then disappeared once he didn’t get it dotes on his wife like she is his everything. To the world, he acts like he would move mountains for her. Meanwhile, he is trying to have sex with women in the family car. You can never judge a book by its cover. In fact, some of those attentive ones are the most duplicitous…the whole “buying a gift because he is cheating” routine. That was really a bizarre eye-opener. His fake cheater love *looked* more real than real relationships I know. *shudders*
And while we are on the subject, does anyone have a clue as to why any man puts so much energy into having a wife AND trying to cheat on her? I mean, you have to REALLY need attention from people to have the stamina for that. Just thinking about it exhausts me.
@NML – I totally agree! I do not think these leopards ever change their stripes. In fact, I don’t know if they can – especially in a society that applauds male promiscuity.
As far as your article, I think it is a keen observation. We are willing to twist ourselves into emotional pretzels for others but not willing to untwist for ourselves. I am untwisting. It is hard but necessary. Thank you for putting words to what I am experiencing and reinforcing that I can change to accommodate me. So simple yet so brilliant!
They use the women on the side as an escape hatch to avoid intimacy with wifey.
Emotionally unavailable men get married all the time. They have different ways of dealing with their fears and emotional voids – they cheat, they work too much, they drink too much, they use drugs, they verbally or emotionally abuse their spouse – whatever it takes to push themselves away and keep themselves at arms’ distance.
That’s an excellent summary, Molly, much of which rings very true with my own experiences of emotionally unavailable people. They are incredibly conflict-avoidant – that’s one of the tendencies that has helped me to recognise that I have been emotionally unavailable myself in significant relationships.
“When you act like someone that doesn’t have boundaries and who appears not to give a rats about themselves, people will treat you as such, especially those that are reliant on you having little or no boundaries for them to dodge acting like a half decent person in a committed relationship.”
Today was a great example of me throwing myself under the bus yet again. 🙁 I’m terrified of hearing someone’s opinion (especially negative) about something I’m doing especially if it’s very different from them. It’s like I can’t stand it. I know I know what others think should not matter and I work on it all the time….and seem to fail. It’s as if if someone disapproves of or even sounds like they disapprove of something about me, it automatically makes it so…..even if I don’t particularly care for the person!! If they don’t like it or say some snide remark, then it feels like what they’re saying is true and I’m wrong.
And if I totally trusted myself about everyone I come in contact, I honestly can say I would not spend much time around a lot of them. And that makes me think the problem is me because I cannot handle a lot of people. It seems ingrained that I think almost everyone thinks the same way of me: I’m unimportant, weird, ugly, too this and too that, etc. How do you seriously get out of the rut thinking everyone is thinking SO poorly of you????
“I should add as well that this vicious cycle only gets nastier when you realise that you’ve been acting in a manner that detracts from you and then try to correct it and ‘prove’ otherwise – it’s like trying to glue a house back together that has rotting foundations.”
In small ways each day, I see things I do and say that detracts from me. It nearly makes me want to cry my eyes out in a big Momma lap. It is a bit embarrassing that I think so lowly of myself. But it comes from me beating them to the chase of cutting me down first. But then I get glossed over and ignored. I’m even trying new things, like letting out some things I do that a lot of people don’t know about. Then when I don’t get some sort of attention or “applause” I feel like it’s worthless. It’s like if I love myself and accept me and how I’m feeling and just deal with the discomfort of someone not liking me, I fear they may have been right about me and I wrong. Does that even make sense??
Color — This is all in your mind. Seriously. The people you interact with do not think the things about you that you fear they do. You are projecting your own self-image onto the interactions and believe they are reflecting it back to you. People are seriously too caught up in their own concerns and their own social anxieties to do that. In addition, people are most often more generous in their assessments of other people than they are of themselves — they may be worrying that *they* are not coming across well.
Natalie writes a lot about looking for external validation in relationships and placing one’s peace of mind and self-worth in the hands of others instead of within. You’re doing that not just with primary relationships but with acquaintances and strangers. But you’re not even letting the interaction be genuine and unique — you have pre-decided what “everyone” thinks of you and think you see it confirmed. But that’s distorted.
I have a close friend who loves his wife. And he told me that she thinks everyone thinks poorly of her and this is a huge issue for them because there is no amount of reassurance or reality check he can provide for her to not think this. I was astonished. I’ve known her for years; she is sweet and shy and bright and not only have I never had a critical thought about her, I know of no one who knows her who would even recognize the image my friend says she thinks others have of her.
I told him he should throw a “everybody loves [her name]” party and have everyone come and go around and say how terrific they think she is. He laughed, but said she wouldn’t believe it.
That’s the thing. There’s no amount of reality check that can help if the person with these core beliefs is determined to hold on to them. And, unbeknownst to you, *other people are walking around with the same distorted beliefs* — even people you admire and give the power to judge you.
Are you in counseling? You’ve got to give up this “everybody thinks I’m horrible” internal story. *You* have to. It’s not like there will be a critical mass of people one day who tell you you’re great and then poof! you’ll believe it.
ixnay
100% agree.
We have a very sweet family member who is very shy and unassuming. Went through a LONG period of thinking everyone was talking about her and didn’t like her. Even the neighbours. She has been treated for depression and much happier.
Orange
I don’t say this often as it sounds disrespectful but – it’s all in your head. it’s not real.
ixnay,
“I have a close friend who loves his wife. And he told me that she thinks everyone thinks poorly of her and this is a huge issue for them because there is no amount of reassurance or reality check he can provide for her to not think this. ”
I had a relationship once where I literally needed (felt I needed) reassurance on a daily basis that the boyfriend loved me and wanted to be with me. I exhausted him. With the initial “euphoria” or “confirmation” that the other person thinks I’m OK, it always fades and fast. Then I can be back into wanting that next fix of someone validating me.
grace,
Sounds like you described me 🙂
I realize it’s only in my head but it’s like this little radar goes off when it “seems” like someone outside of me has confirmed my negative belief about myself. I will keep working on this!!! My mind has been distorted most my life!
Orange, that is called lack of self-esteem. I know, I was the same way. I was literally my own worst enemy. NO ONE was saying the awful things I thought about myself, it was all my own inner dialogue. Self abuse. I didn’t feel worth anything, and I projected that self-hatred on to everyone.
I never used to go out the door without ‘doing makeup’ and making sure I looked ‘decent’. I couldn’t even answer the door to accept a pizza delivery if I wasn’t ‘done’ up because – yup in my head – that pizza delivery kid was going to judge me negatively! That is how low my self esteem was. HAH I can laugh at how silly that is now.
Now I answer the door to get the pizza in my bathrobe and jammies and no make up and ratty hair… I just don’t care what other people think of me – BECAUSE I FINALLY LOVE ME.
Focus on loving yourself Orange. When you think someone is thinking bad things about you, remind yourself that that is you. Then correct it. Look at yourself in the mirror and out loud, say to yourself all the wonderful things about yourself. Build your self esteem. I did it. You can do it too.
ColorO,
If you say “most of your life”, does that mean this negative image/pattern comes from your childhood? Have you explored that direction? I am sorry if you have shared this before, but I do not remember…
I had a lovely boyfriend from when I was 16-23 years old who got fed up complimenting me because I always would be negative about myself when he did compliment me. He’d say I looked great – I’d say, no, I think my bum looks too big in this – he’d say he liked my dress, I’d say, no, it would have been better in red… blah.. blah… I didn’t realise what I was doing until one day he said in anger – oh! for God’s sake (insert my name) why can you never just accept a compliment graciously; why do you always need to throw it back at me?
From that day forth, whenever someone says something nice about me I still find myself ready to quash the compliment with some self-deprecating (trying not to display vanity of any kind!) retort, but instead I check and catch myself and I say instead “Thank you, it’s nice of you to say so”, which makes me feel good about me and has the other person glad their compliment is appreciated. Lesson: never belittle a compliment, colororange! Accept it, and gladly! Apart from anything else, it is ungracious and even rude to the person who wants to let you know something good about yourself that they have noticed.
BTW – I think you need to stop riding your life on the back of what everyone else thinks of you. Persistently pestering a person you’re with to reaffirm for you again and again that they love you is very co-dependent behaviour. It’s not attractive – it’s clingy and needy. Healthy people don’t want someone riding piggy back on their lives – they want you to have ownership of your own life – they want you walking alongside them, not looking for a piggy back – they want you to have your own sense of self which you can also bring to the table (of love!) which will add to and be shared with their life and their sense of self. It’s a two way street – it’s not hitch-a-lift. Just showing up (and sticking your thumb out for a ride in someone else’s car) is not enough. They might think you were a pleasant enough passenger for a wee while, but at some point they are going to want to know why you don’t have (or even want to have) your own car or why you never take a shot at the wheel – then you become just a burden for them to carry – you become a drain on their resources. Sorry; don’t mean to be harsh… but you remind me of some worrying aspects of myself many years ago, which I thankfully recognised.
So what, if they’re right about you. If you like who you are you don’t need them to approve….their opinion doesn’t get you into heaven. What makes their opinion more important than yours? Nothing but you letting it. Be yourself ColorO…….you are unique, embrace it. Make positive changes in your life to make yourself happier, not to impress others or make them like you. Like yourself and others will like you, the ones who don’t…..they can kick rocks.
I have caught myself putting myself down in front of others too, or have acted in a way that says…’don’t worry about me over here, I don’t matter anyway (with a smile, of course).’ When I catch myself I stop! I find I do it less now. So when I feel it on the tip of my tongue I stop it from spilling out, then say something positive instead. I do matter and I’m going to act like it. Give yourself a chance!
Colororange, I feel for you as you put yourself through a great deal of torment. You don’t do enough internal and external evidence checking – most of this stuff is just *your* opinion and *your* perception of your experiences – you don’t ask jack and you have such a low opinion of yourself, that you reject you before others can. Remember when I wrote about inverted ego issues? Colororange, not everything is about you. In spite of your very low self-esteem, your inverted ego issues mean that you’re being very egotistical in deciding that this is what these people think and do. As others have rightly pointed out – people just don’t have the time and the energy to think about others, or you, for that matter, in the way that you are making them out to.
“It’s like if I love myself and accept me and how I’m feeling and just deal with the discomfort of someone not liking me, I fear they may have been right about me and I wrong.”
I think you’re missing the point Colororange – who the frick are ‘they’? Are they God or a higher power? Are they even Judge Judy?
You don’t *know* if they don’t like you – they don’t even know you! You don’t like a lot of people yourself Colororange. The sky isn’t falling down on them either. It’s not because you’re not good or powerful enough, or that you’re “ugly” or whatever else – nothing happens when someone doesn’t like someone. There are nearly 7 billion people on the planet – there’s enough people to go around to be liked but you won’t know what like looks or feels like, until you like you. The world doesn’t exist for people to hand clap and pat us on the back for everything that we do. Nobody wants that job, especially when, after they say something nice to you, or even pat you on the back and validate something good, because of the fact that you don’t like you, you tear it down and find something negative to throw back. I used to have an internal dialogue of shitty things I said about myself – one day I overheard me, and every day after that, as soon as it popped into my head, I halted it and replaced it with something positive. Voice is now gone.
Help yourself though Colororange. You love saying all of these negative things about yourself and repeating the same argument, but you don’t *do* anything. Do something – do it every day, but do something.
“…people just don’t have the time and the energy to think about others, or you, for that matter, in the way that you are making them out to.”
But NML, what happens when you have concrete proof that people don’t like you? This week I had someone inexplicably “unfriend” me on FB (the day after she wished me well at a singing performance) and another good friend ignore two of my texts, one of which was the question, “Are you ignoring me?” and a telephone call. I have little idea what I’ve done in the latter case; I suspect the former was my cell phone conversation with her estranged husband in which I ironically told him to reconcile with her. Now, even her husband (who poured his heart out to me about the stress and depression he’s feeling since the split!) won’t answer my recent text. Am I bringing this misery on myself by engaging with people who obviously don’t care a hoot about me? Why do I always feel as if people are punishing me?
Blueberry Girl, I have concrete proof that some people don’t like me. In the words of Smokey from the film ‘Friday’ “I don’t give a f*ck!” You don’t do anything when people don’t like you other than go about your business.
1) It’s just Facebook. I know someone who comes drinking with us sometimes and talks like we’re mates – she follows and unfollows me and other people in the group on Twitter. She compliments me all the time! I never say a word about it. People unfollow and unfriend for all sorts of reasons, but I’m 34 not 13 – these things are unimportant.
2) You know exactly why she’s not responded to your text – because she is having marital problems with her husband and even though you did advise him to reconcile, he poured out his problems to you and you let him and it may have crossed boundaries with your friendship with her. Not everyone wants people all in their business – she may be incredibly embarrassed. It doesn’t mean she doesn’t like you – this isn’t *about* you. She has bigger problems going on in her life and if he *has* told her about the conversation and you saying he should go back, that’s quite uncomfortable to be on the receiving end of. I don’t think she’s punishing you – she’s going through marital problems. My friend is going through a marriage split – she takes a while to get back to me. I don’t even sweat it.
3) He’s not answering your text because he’s embarrassed and has potentially crossed boundaries in his own marriage plus if you and him aren’t really friends, he’s potentially crossed boundaries with you. He may be trying to avoid further issues.
blueberry
I strongly suspect it’s the meddling in other people’s marriages/relationships. Also, when people overshare they may feel embarrassed about it the next day when they’ve sobered up. It’s nothing to do with liking you or not.
Boundaries people!
NML and Grace ~ You know, I have my own issues to worry about. Just like getting embroiled in relationships with EU people, these interactions distance me from addressing my own problems. It’s much easier to give advice to other people than to implement change in my own life. You’re right, Grace, I meddled where I did not belong, but he went there right along with me…I should have halted the heart-to-heart. By the way, he was cheating on her…uh oh…why would I expect a cheater to treat me with integrity?
blueberry
I’m not going to say that you must avoid all cheaters and people with bad relationship habits. By those standards no-one would ever speak to me again! However, while you are still practising being the authentic blueberry, putting boundaries in place, and implementing change, I would avoid as much as possible getting into questionable situations. Actively look to make friends who are reliable, financially stable, have a job, aren’t drug addicts or alcoholics, have solid relationships.
I hope I am not snooty about this – some people you just have to leave to the professionals (counsellors, drug counsellors, debt counsellors, social workers) or to those who have got their own act together and can let such people into their lives with no detrimental effect. You need to have a fairly rock solid sense of self and value before you can deal regularly with people skirting about on the margins.
And you’re right, a cheater can’t treat you with integrity. He’s got enough on his plate with all the lying and sneaking around he has to do!
“some people you just have to leave to the professionals…or to those who have got their own act together and can let such people into their lives with no detrimental effect.”
Grace, interesting point. The key fact is that it DOES affect me negatively whereas I am boundary-busted, disrespected, used, ignored, yada, yada, yada…and I’m helping to put myself there. Even though this is not a romantic relationship, it still has the qualities of interaction with an EU person! So, I just keep going back for more…yikes. Thanks for pointing this out. And thanks to you, Natalie, for answering me directly. I love that : )
color,
I think you may be over thinking this a bit. Instead of giving a rat’s ass about others, take the time to do something productive for yourself. Success is the best revenge!
As someone who is treated like crap often in this big city I live in, I can tell you that I DO NOT internalize it. I truly think a lot of people are nuts! Also, I think people project feelings about themselves onto others. I don’t know. I used to care or internalize what I perceived as rejection (there is actually something called “rejection syndrome” or some such – stems from childhood) but now I couldn’t care less because I choose not to think that way. This life is precious. I am not going to waste it worrying about what others think of me, especially since I’m not a mind reader!
So, instead of “everyone thinks I suck”, I think “damn, a lot of people suck! I want better.”
I can tell you I have had someone come out and say “I don’t like you.” Once, I walked past a guy and heard him say “That girl makes me want to puke.” That, among other things, I’ve internalized.
Yesterday I had a conversation with a woman that is very quiet. It turned out she and I have A LOT in common and I can learn a lot from her. I was pleasantly surprised. Then something strange happened. She asked me about a choice I’d made and I know another man overheard me telling her about it. I was not worried that she’d judge me since I figured out we were both pretty much on a similar page. But there was this *voice* or something in my head saying “that man hears what you’re saying and thinks you’re weird, he thinks you’re crazy, he’s going to talk about you to the others, bla bla bla” So it made it hard for me to just talk naturally to this woman and be honest about myself since my head was saying all this about that man near us! I kept what I was saying short because my anxiety was about to run me over that this man heard me. This woman said there are people in her life that say she’s crazy too. And I immediately jumped in and said “NO, You’re Not!!” What she said was some of the sanest stuff I’d heard in so long in the circle of people I am around daily. I had a bit of epiphany too. The reason some people disapprove or don’t like or question what I’m doing is because it is threatening to them. It puts them in an uncomfortable spot because what I am doing is different.
It isn’t that I’m not doing anything different. Everyday I’m pushing myself to do differently, it’s just that I stumble and fall into my rut. That scared and verbally battered little girl in me is scared of being told again someone is disapproving. Fall down, get back up again? I do even if it doesn’t sound like it.
Say positive things to yourself. Play positive tapes in your head. Focus on the good things about yourself and the good things about OTHER PEOPLE. When your mind automatically goes to that negative thought, SWITCH it to a positive thought. It will feel unnatural at first, but then it will get easier. It can be done. I used to feel negatively about myself and others as well. Now, I am SHOCKED when I find out someone doesn’t like me!! I’m like, “How can you not like me!! I like me!! I like YOU!!!” LOL!! I am sure there are many wonderful things about you!! But, if you want others to see them, YOU have to see them first!!
ColorO, my roommate and I threw a party last night, and in the couple of days leading up to and even a couple times during, I had moments of “everyone is just tolerating me”; “everyone here is disappointed with this party because I haven’t provided cool enough friends for them”; even “my party isn’t cool so everyone here who isn’t here for my roommate must either be bored, or be boring themselves”. These thoughts come almost without having the time to verbalise them; they’re more of an internal seizing up, a clutch where my heart kind of stops; and always it is some form of the “realization” that no one likes me.
I thought of you, ColorO, and people saying kindly to you it is in your head (clear enough from the outside), and imagined kind BR voices telling me the same in my case.
I too have had – mainly in my childhood and teenagehood – people say to me, or so that I could overhear, that I was ugly, that the thought of me made them barf, that everyone hated me, that I stank, that my privates stank, … well, I can go further than that but you get the picture. So I totally relate to you over that feeling of “understanding” that “no one” likes me.
Lately I think that the shock of learning, at whatever tender age, that people can be so cruel as to initiate and take pleasure in your suffering, is too difficult to process. So when someone says, “You know, we all hate you and wish you never came to this school” you don’t think, this person is saying it to watch me suffer, you think, oh my god. Everyone hates me? What possibly could cause that? And the psyche HAS to place blame, and when you’re young, three people thinking something beats one person believing different; so guess who gets blame for their BS?
Anyway, just wanted to let you know that I thought of you this week as we hosted our VERY successful party where I in fact enjoyed the company of old friends and new, despite the emotional flashbacks.
It IS possible to feel confident about yourself. I did go through a period of holding two beliefs together, because my belief that “everyone” didn’t like me was so strong: “Even if they all think I’m pathetic, I think I’m courageous” was one; “Even if everyone does think I suck, I think I’m quite wonderful” was another. Keep repeating until it sticks.
Excellent Natalie! I love the title and as usual you shot straight from the hip… put the spotlight on something we need to realise. If we can twist in these skewed scenes we can certainly twist in healthier ways…unlearning and relearning…I especially loved how you stated that the other party would have to look at themselves as well just as we do…not easy but worth it without a doubt…but we can only teach by demonstrating and putting the info out there…action is required and noone can force another. I can hope for change in others but my responsibility is my own change and responsibility for my actions and recognition of when and how I act inappropriately and then learning how to not repeat old familiar worn nonrewarding and unacceptable behaviors. I can’t rope and tie someone else to take the journey with me. I can guide and point out the way but that’s it. Even more so, my journey is mine and I truly don’t know what is best for others as we all learn differently and have different paths. What I do know is my path is strewn with a lot of past pain and I have had enough of crap relationshits and betting on potential and thinking words meant action when lack of action and contradictory action was occuring…or when I had words that consistently contradicted each other and spun me like a top that I didn’t disconnect…that merry-go-round of confusion is one I hope never to take again. I am sticking with my commitment to not contact the ex and tell him more about what I think although it is difficult. I have been looking at my past and I was an EUW. I was so incredibly fearful of anyone knowing my interior for fear of rejection and hurt. Now, I know I can stand the pain and this is awesome for me. I had a major depressive disorder and PTSD diagnosis several years ago. However, until this last attempt at a relationship I didn’t address all of my broken parts. Some is still inaccessable, but what I have is more than enough for understanding and working to repair and improve.I know that people can change, but first one needs to be aware of the need to change oneself and that takes introspection and education. Thanks again for being here for us all.
Hi Leisha. “I was so incredibly fearful of anyone knowing my interior for fear of rejection and hurt.” Deep. You have been through so much and it must have been hard to deal with your ex’s revelations. Keep with the NC – you can’t afford the toxicity of him in your life. Sometimes loving someone means that you have to do right by them even when you’re not part of it – acting in someone’s best interest’s and loving them isn’t about being there to fix them. You have to recognise that if you remained involved with him, you’d only act as a convenient distraction and wall to his problems, problems I might add that he can’t even be honest about with himself. And then he’d take you down with him. His problems are his to fix – you would never have a mutual relationship when he’s screwing up and lying, and you’re trying to fix something you’re not equipped to while also stunting your own growth.
Thanks Natalie, My magic wand doesn’t work and Florence quit and left, and I don’t run a rehab, nor if I did, would I be the proper one to provide therapy. Nope. Consequences are inevitable all around. I’m having a lot of anger in the grief stage right now. All kinds of mood swings. Aggravated, sorrowful, hateful, regretful, self-incriminating, etc, but I know it’s part of the process. I’m auditing it in that I’m allowing the feelings but not acting on impulses that I would regret. It’s hard as hell but I’m doing all I can to cope with it without lashing out and I am being compassionate to myself. I know what the ex is doing is right for him even if I perceive it as wrong…it’s his journey and my job was to opt out when I realised what I need in a relationship wasn’t occuring. He knows what is needed. I know what is needed. There’s nothing left to say about it at this juncture. Unlike all of the previous times, I now know that I would ask questions and take time to evaluate things despite loving him like the sun. I finally had to love me to the extent that I could state my needs and stick by them. It’s hard and I know you know it. Thanks again for the support and words of compassion and wisdom. xo
Change:
you can no longer ignore the voice in your head that screams: THIS CAN’T GO ON LIKE THIS.
decide a change is needed.
declare your intention to yourself.
let it stew.
make a plan.
implement.
fall flat on your face, pull yourself up and start again, put lippy on.
don’t fight the process.
remain outside your comfort zone, learn to love it, your backbone shows.
accept it will get better.
you no longer feel yourself, but feel fine about it.
people tell you are not yourself and think ” what do you know, and if so how come I feel so good?”
you can’t go back, you don’t know the way back or give a frack.
Then one day a EU no longer register on your radar nor will you bip in theirs, they may even repulse you a little.
This was awesome!!
Actually they repulse me A LOT. My last EUM is the father of my 2 year old daughter. He used to be completely irresistible to me, and now, when I have to deal with him because of my daughter, he absolutely repulses me. I look at him and think WHAT DID I EVER SEE IN THIS GUY? HAHA
Excellent Artemisia. Just excellent.
Thank you Australia, Barbara and Natalie,
I find the subtle change always interesting. You unconscious has made a decision without warning you and drops the information on your lap at the most inopportune moment or when you are ready.
I used to go out with a man that looked really good on paper, intelligent, successful and handsome. All the things I was not, so I was all those things by association ( he is a success – he is with me – so I am a success) and I ignored his other side, controlling and subtle demeaning at time.
I found that later he likes women his “ intellectual and socially inferior” so he can feel good about himself, he had amazing manners because of suppressed rage rather and not because of a beautiful soul. He started to get on my nerves but I put it down to being not good enough. He left for an assignment and I did not miss him. He comes back after 3 months and I start to walk on eggshells.
We go to a party and I remain soberish ( 2 drinks) . One of his friends, a slick PR guy that I hate, because he looks over your shoulders to see if somebody else more interesting is about, stops and talk to me. It’s all slick bull and he start to do his trick, usually I would have talked more to try to get his attention and I open my mouth to say : “listen why don’t you go to the person you are looking out over my shoulder, I am obviously boring you”, he laughs and say “ not at all, you are not boring me “ but I know he is being sarcastic and I say nothing, just smile, stare at him and move out of the way. I am totally surprised, where did that come from?
My guy takes me to one side and says I have embarrassed myself, I suddenly looked at him and think – you are so ugly and I am so much better than you, why do I think the opposite – and leave the party, swearing at him, the things he hates.
Few months later, I woke up at 5 am thinking – what do all the nobs I have been with have in common: ME.
Love this! It reminds me of a quote I read last week that goes, “People change for two reasons, either they learn enough that they want to change, or they’ve been hurt enough that they have to change.” For me it’s been a combo of both, but in any event, hell to the no would I ever go back to where I started!
I’m the same Natasha, I’m the same. The day I realised I was the common denominator, I was so shocked that I vowed to knock it on the head. It wasn’t bad luck and it wasn’t all them – I’m the only recurrent character showing up to each and every day of my life. Keep striving (and making me laugh)!
Oh so true! I was always bemoaning the fact that my life was turning into a soap opera with an intro that went, “Like bullsh*t text messages through the data network…these are The Assclowns Of Our Lives.” and it finally occcurred to me that not only was I the permanent lead actress, I was writing the script to ensure that the plot never changed!
When my ex texted me recently to inform me that someone told him he looked like a famous athlete that I once (by once I mean several years ago) told him he resembled…
(subtext: “LOOK AT ME! I got a compliment! Damn girl, I’m the sh*t.”)
…I laughed for several minutes straight and then mentally thanked you for teaching me not to engage with morons 😉
Natalie and Natasha,
Your comments about being the common denominator in all your former situations is what really caught my attention last year and why I kept reading. The guys came and went but I was always left with just me. Could I have something to do with my life? I was the permanent lead actress starring in my own soap and writing the script to ensure I could avoid myself. Thus, since I am the permanent lead actress in my own life and can write my own script, it’s a different script now. It’s been months (not counting) since contact with the exMM and the drama of being an OW is fading, although I can conjure up the drama, hurt, and sadness at a moments notice. With all of your help, I’ve had time to turn the focus of the script to me. I’m actually okay despite my past. I’m a good mother, a good teacher, a good person. I think I’ve changed to fit me.
Good for you Natasha for not responding to the “Look at me cos I’m the shit text”. So totally desperate. Don’t you wish you could warn the next woman that will be there to stroke his ego and other things? Totally loved this post Natalie. It is as clear as a bell, change lies within me.
YEAH RUNNER! You are doing so awesome lady and I’m so happy for you. Trust me when I tell you that it will come to a point where you can’t even remember feeling hurt about it – I think if I tried to conjure it up, I’d come up empty. I think you’re well on the way there! I burst out laughing at, “Don’t you wish you could warn the next woman that will be there to stroke his ego and other things?” Girl, I’d need a Bat Signal so I could show up at various watering holes and yell, “Nooooo! Back away from the assclown slowly.” I think it’s safe to say that we’re both moving on up 🙂
Love this idea, RU, of changing to fit ourselves. That’s what I feel like these days, more myself: more well-integrated, less prone to second guessing or apologising for stuff that I don’t need to, much less interested in external validation, much less prone to gossip or drama, more using my powers for good (eg my ability to observe and analyse social situations going into my fiction-writing and performance, rather than my need to engage with, and potentially ‘solve’, psycho-social absurdities in real life), little inclination to explain things (in first year of BR, I was as zealous as a former-smoker might be, and would explain what guys, in particular, were doing according to the EU model, rather than just smiling and making my polite excuses), no longer concerned about what will happen to the sh*tdogs of the world, much better at handling myself, and focusing on what makes me feel positive and energised. It’s good times!
(And Natasha – I am glad you laughed at that text. What a tool! Talk about the world testing you to see whether you’re still charmed by the pathetic!)
@Elle – “no longer concerned about what will happen to the sh*tdogs of the world, much better at handling myself, and focusing on what makes me feel positive and energised. It’s good times!” LOVE IT! Amen sister, amen.
@LoJ – That story made me choke on my Diet Coke! Runner and Elle’s characterizations of these idiots as “desperate” and “pathetic” couldn’t be more right on 😉
If some enterprising company wants to make some serious money this holiday season, they should release a line of assclown-friendly mirrors with a feature that chirps random affirmations to them (“You look SO GOOD.”, “Every woman on Earth wants a piece of THAT.”, “She was CRAZY. You’re a catch.”). Not only would they made millions, they’d be cutting way down on the number of dumbass texts flying around.
I had an old on again/off again ex-AC during a conversation say, “Remember when we were dating?…” … (and I, with baited breath, heart pounding in my chest, anticipating those long awaited romantic words of forever yours… ) … “do you remember how much I weighed?” He was a body builder. I’m sure I tried!! Hee hee!! If only I had remembered. He would be mine. *said tongue in cheek.
Oh, Natasha, that’s so dang funny!! I needed a good laugh! I’ve seen a few fools preening in the mirror, probably thinking those very thoughts! Really would do womankind a favor if this mirror existed. “…cutting way down on the number of dumbass texts flying around.” LMAO!!
I am getting off relationship crack. Relationship Crack Withdrawal symptoms are there but as each day passes I feel much better. I wish it wasn’t like this and it had worked out. But that wasn’t my fault if they’re not interested enough to give me the whole full course meal and not just crumbs of ‘friends’.
I am getting off relationship crack.
I am getting off relationship crack.
I am getting off relationship crack.
My last assclown boyfriend was so selfish and immature, and did not care one iota about my happiness. He snapped at me all the time and did not show me respect. When I look back on the whole miserable experience six months later, I realize that I was not commanding respect, so why should he give it? The new me would have spoken to this idiot for about all of 30 seconds and counted my blessings I hadn’t given him the time of day.
This is the catch with these types of guys, I believe… That they do not respect themselves, so there must be something wrong with anyone who wants them. I don’t think they consciously go through this thought-process, but I believe it happens all the same. You cannot win with these types of guys. They can only look up at you in awe and know they can never have you, or do just the opposite and look down at you with disgust and disrespect. They cannot find the middle ground and just love and respect another because then they would have to love and respect themselves (which they have no concept of).
@Michelle
YES!!! Oh my goodness. Lived it. Is that the whole narcissist “pedestal/devalue” thing? That is some creepy cold sh*t. I had/have never met anyone like the crazy MM before so I was blindsided. I called him out at every turn though because he shocked me so!
Maybe that is how they are able to have wives and mistresses – they are cycling through with each of them in a rotation with little to no real respect or emotion (unless it’s pedestal time – but it’s still fake because it’s transitory). As a matter of fact, when I mentioned to the MM (I refuse to call him “my” MM) something he said – something positive about us- he said “I am sure I meant it at the time.” Exactly. When I was on the pedestal.
And I tried to command respect, btw, he still didn’t care. Or would pretend like he did (pedestal) and then turn on me.
Hi Tired_of-assanova – yes you are! “I wish it wasn’t like this and it had worked out.” I think you’ll revise that wish in time. It’s like wishing that coming off crack didn’t leave you feeling the way it does and wishing that it wasn’t like this and that taking crack would be painless – wishing for it to work out with an unhealthy partnering will keep you stuck. Keep striving, keep getting off the relationship crack.
My antidote to relationship crack/fantasy crack (thank God there is such a thing) other than high doses of BR is to imagine (for all those who have runaway imaginations, this exercise is for you!) the MM/EUM/EUW/AC in this situation:
1. Imagine them with you on a very first date, you’re just getting to know them
2. Imagine them sitting across from you at the table in the cafe over coffee
3. Now imagine them leaning over the table at the cafe and then introducing themselves, talking about themselves BUT replace the usual dating spiel (Oh I’m so kind/caring/honest) with what they *actually did*- Example:
“Hi, I’m X. I’ll blow hot, text you and IM you like crazy, we’ll spend hardly any time seeing each other, after sleeping with you and telling you in the bedroom that ‘people come and take what they want and leave’, I’ll go dead cold, I’ll press reset then I’ll go off and sleep/hook-up and date other people (because that’s OK if there isn’t a discussion about committed LTR, like that’s the ‘norm’ you know all my friends I spoke to do it), I’ll make sure I hardly have any time for you (like I will have more time after working/camping/when my car comes back/blah), the whole thing will be unlabelled, then you will be downgraded to ‘friend’, then after a month I’ll be interested again and blow hot, I’ll f*ck your mind, you’ll do all travel to my place but I’ll never ever visit yours, feed you a diet of excuses and crumbs, then towards the end while your emotions go on a rollercoaster up and down I’ll return your stuff and go NC with you when you ask for more. You’ll be left devastated, your job and study will suffer for months, you’ll rack up 1000s of dollars in intensive psycology session bills and leave you a shell of yourself wondering what the hell happened and who you are. And I’ll just go on my merry way shagging around having a great time…
What would you say? Just IMAGINE if your EU/AC/MM actually revealed all of this on the first date with you had with them? You would probably be like HELL NO! And run out. But yet this is what they do, this is what we accept, and we do it because it creeps up on us and it is done in increments such that it is always *just* pushing our boundary but not quite crossing it.
The key to breaking a fantasy relationship is use your imagination to create the nightmare that is actually was!
Interesting way to put it…
I can’t honestly answer I’d like to think no but how many of us have posted that we saw and ignored the flying red flags right from the beginning and jumped in anyway ?
I’m glad you found a way out your horrible situation.
I know your intention was not to be funny, tired, but I laughed at the irony of your post and shook my head in amazement because it is so perfectly true. Instead of imagining riding off in the sunset with our white knight, we should be imagining the reality that we’re really riding along with someone closer to the grim reaper. Beautifully depicted, tired.
That’s so true especially what you said about them pushing boundaries slowly but surely. They’re so good I wonder if they’re aware of their terrible behavior and the motivation behind it or if they are completely oblivious and in denial. I think the guy I put up with was a mix of both. He’s definitely aware but he will never admit to having done wrong. I feel badly for the next girl to be honest although I feel ever worse for the one before me who wasted 4 years of her life. It’s interesting because I can look back and pinpoint instances when he was attempting to push the boundaries, always with such ease and precision. I’m still disappointed that I let him take advantage of me but then I remember how I told him where to go in the end, cutting off all contact and then I feel better haha. He’s the type of person that doesn’t get told off very often (people just let him get away with things, his friends kind of put him on this pedestal) it’s weird. Anyways, I’m very glad I got to be the exception. 😉
Change doesn’t come from doing more of the same thing. If you persist in circumventing what you know to be healthy or right for you in terms of your values, it’s just disrespecting yourself by another name. When you keep finding new ways to not believe in yourself and to let your boundaries be busted, all roads lead to unhappy.
Exactly, if I persist in my usual way of communication with the eum I am harming myself. Experince has already shown me where I will land and that is me being unhappy.
Change in my thinking is thinking, change how I view myself is needed.
I am someone who changed myself to stay in the relationship so I know I’m capable of changing to stay out of it.
How can I say what the benefits will be if I never strived to do something different about this situation.
If I am serious about my 2012 being eum free then I bet roll up my sleeves and start doing the work.
I had a dream where I was with a man and it was mutual relationship it was so incrediable to my mind that this could happen to me. Something to strive for.
Yeah change in your *action* is also needed Tulipa. None of your thinking or decisions ever exist long enough for them to take effect. Accept that this is *done*. Let it go. But great dream though!
Thank you, Natalie, for your reply.
Two people (seperately) have told me that I have wasted a whole year on this eum though one said I have wasted far longer than one year on him and it is time to leave it all behind.
Finally listening and acting.
I want the dream.
Tulipa: so ironic that “the dream” you want is actually what is possible in reality. I remember in high school having dreams of being treated well and loved; I’d wake up and the lingering feeling of someone having been kind was beautiful and excruciating because for me, it was *just a dream.*
How ironic that the real fantasy is getting the caring from an unlikely source, and that the reality is that such caring exists in the real day-to-day world, if we know how to recognize it in its day-to-day realness.
Your *dream* is what is truly possible for you Tulipa.
Oh yeah,
The last relationship I was involved in I accommodated him to the max. We were not together for too long but I often found I was the one doing the running around travelling to see him, putting in the time and effort, abandoned my boundaries..changing who I was…with his critical nature by the end of the relationship I was almost too scared to be myself around him. He often commented that *I* made him feel ‘rage’ that he had never felt before *I love you even though sometimes I want to kill you* that admission along with his behaviour frightened me. I lost my identity. I felt I couldn’t do anything right.
Christmas this time is hard. I am in NC and am happy to be in NC. I get upset that he hasn’t contacted me at all. It’s more of an ego bruise than anything — I know not having him in my life is the best thing for me. However he seems to have moved on and it hurts. I am glad to be in NC but he seems to have forgotten me effortlessly. The only thing stopping me from moving on is the idea that he really think I was the one who was in the wrong — his failure to see things from my perspective in addition to his lack of empathy.
I think accommodating someone else and their assclownishness is a surefire route to unhappiness. You lose a part of yourself in the process of accepting their ridiculousness
I understand your feelings completely, but truth is, he will NEVER see your perspective. Best to remain NC and heal yourself and become the amazing woman you can be. Once you do that, you will find you never think of the ex.
Oh dear Emma. Even if you didn’t go beyond the first para, I’d have said leave, fast. Anger is normal, rage is not. Saying “love you even though sometimes I want to kill you”. This man has *serious* issues.
Now on to the next thing – it’s time to lay down your crack pipe. We all have ego’s but let me tell you straight – I’m pretty certain he hasn’t forgotten you, like 99.9% certain. Unless he has amnesia, he hasn’t forgotten you. Mr Unavailables and the abusive variety, assclowns, which is where your man fits, don’t forget. Just ask all the readers who get random texts and emails after a few years, or have them turn up after 20 years. All this stuff you’re saying about forgetting you is a fantasy you’re using to persecute yourself. Do not invite shit behaviour into your life by having an ego that needs some wankstain who *abuses* you, to give you attention. This is how people end up gravitating back to abusive ex’s – it’s like “I can’t believe I’m not important enough for you to want to abuse me still”. Not all attention is created equal. Put yourself in his shoes – If you were a critical, raging abuser that claimed to love someone but felt like you wanted to kill them, what would you do when your target cut you off? Torment them some more? Stalk them? Find a new target? Come up with a story about why they left that makes you look like a saint? Make a note in your mental asshole diary to touch base with them to see if they still have no boundaries? Wait for the right moment to strike where you can pretend you’ve changed and that you’re sorry, lure them back in and then switch back?
Which one of those options are you waiting around for?
Or were you hoping he’d change? I wouldn’t hold your breath. You will be just one more woman trying to be the exception to someone’s rule of assholic behaviour. Let him go.
Emma,
This alone should make you happy you ran for the hills:
“He often commented that *I* made him feel ‘rage’ that he had never felt before *I love you even though sometimes I want to kill you* that admission along with his behaviour frightened me. I lost my identity. I felt I couldn’t do anything right.”
That’s a game of russian roulette, my friend. You love you more, for sure. Glad to hear you are NC. Who cares what he thinks. He’s bad news.
“All this stuff you’re saying about forgetting you is a fantasy you’re using to persecute yourself. Do not invite shit behaviour into your life by having an ego that needs some wankstain who *abuses* you, to give you attention. ”
Oh my gosh, NML! That’s a good topic. Self-persecution over a wankstain. I’ll have to think about that as it relates to me. (I NC’d him already)
Thanks for this, Natalie. Although I’ve only been following this blog briefly, I’ve discovered that I have a lot of changing to do in order to be ready for a healthy relationship. I honestly had no idea how controlling I had been in my previous relationship until it was brought to my attention on here. It’s a bit humiliating when you finally realize that you’ve been behaving like a complete ass. It reminds me of the time when I was shopping at the mall with a huge “L” sticker stuck to my butt–obviously unbeknownst to me. Hours later, a woman was gracious enough to point it out. How embarrassing!
I just want to make sure that I actually do learn from my mistakes. I want to ensure that in the future, I find a partner that shares the same values as I do–someone that I accept completely and won’t be tempted to micromanage. Of course, I think a lot of that temptation comes from my own insecurities, and the areas that I try to control are areas in which I feel insecure. I know I need to do some major work in this department.
Do any of you have practical suggestions about confronting your insecurities and dealing with them?
Laurie, I have the same problem re insecurities. I think that the only way to overcome them is to trust yourself, because that is the base line point of reference. Otherwise, how do you decide who is right, there are as many opinions as there are people. Assclowns and EUms have opinions too.If we don`t trust ourselves we will put trust in others and it`s all fine and dandy when they have our best interest at heart. But sometimes they don`t, not even people who are supposed to do good by us, like our parents. When we don`t trust ourselves to decide who/what is good for us we end up in bad relationships. Most of us on here don`t set out to have a bad relationship and be in pain. I know I don`t. I micromanaged too and sometimes my behaviour was so desparate, controlling and doormat and confused. I think, if I just trusted in how I feel and what I see I would know there is no other way than go, rather than hold on to something that had no hope in hell of existing. All for the fear of making a mistake.
Hey Laurie,
I’ve followed and commented on your posts before. Your comment moved me and I wanted to say don’t beat yourself up too much,you are really working hard to understand this and it takes time and set backs… it’s not easy.
I was a Florence extraordinaire. Like you I micro managed situations in order to just feel normal. Over the course of fifteen years, marriage break up, a longterm relationship with an alky/a EUM/revisiting my relationship with my mother(who also had alchohol probs…in the last two years I have had breakthrough. I am beginning to live my life in a completely different way, only wish cause I’m in forties that I had got it sooner! You can.
What worked for me was going back completely to my core relationship values(not just in romantic situations but everyday, colleague,relatives, friends) and putting myself at the head of the queue eg. I’m a good person, have a right to be happy what is going to make me happy? I wrote it down and am trying to live it. So far so good. So far, brilliant.
I have found that my boundaries, because of this, have taken care of themselves. They have changed in last year.. I am happy with them. I have respect for myself.
Listen, I still rant about how stupid I was and mourn/slag the EUM. I allow myself that now. I still miss him and will for a while..he’s not changing though.This site permitted me to do so.
Let your hurt and anger happen. Also, you say you are looking for someone that ‘you will accept completely’..that may never happen Laurie. You may get someone who has a habit or two that annoy the hell out of you but who consistently shows you that he is at the same place in the book that you are. Ignore the habits…throw out the list and spot the action, how he makes you feel again and again. I think that is the key. Real actions are the building blocks.Talk is cheap. Cliche but cheap.
Also, us Florence’s, renovators, micromanagers, have to know we are also resilient, survivors,who made order out of chaos,reliable,go where angels fear to tread,brave, compassionate.. Often we learnt those skills as kids, we learned to use them for other people. Biggest change is learning to use them for ourselves. It should be a transferable skill ?You have made great changes, awesome. Keep on…take the L off your backside and put a P on..then take the plates off ! Keep moving.
Sushi and Lynda-
Thanks so much for the encouragement. It means a lot to know that I’m not the only one here that struggles/used to struggle with these things. I’m going to focus my Florence tendencies at my job as a social worker from now on.
Lynda, Your comment about the “L” sticker was great. I’m from the states, and the “L” sticker was actually for *large* and not *learner*. I spent a few years living in England, though, so I knew exactly what you were talking about…great analogy 🙂
“Assclowns and EUms have opinions too.If we don`t trust ourselves we will put trust in others and it`s all fine and dandy when they have our best interest at heart. But sometimes they don`t, not even people who are supposed to do good by us, like our parents. ” Absolutely Sushi. What you must both recognise as well though, is that if you are a micro manager, your relationships will only ever be painful, so if you don’t want to be in pain, stop micromanaging and address the need to control the uncontrollable.
Also, it’s important to recognise this: if you’re micromanaging *and* there are code amber and red behaviour, the mistake you fear making has *already* been made.
Hi Natalie,
My micromanaging, thing is I wasn`t doing it at first ( it became a bit of a chicken and egg situation admitedly, when you are in the thick of it with the EUM for a while you don`t know your bum from your elbow). But having had a good think, I was always the passenger, always (apart from the aspergers guy) with super-controlling men ( hello Daddy! ) and just to confuse me further they showed no outward lack of commitment ( as in marriage, living together, being the girlfriend ect.) Except it was on their terms and with me having to accomodate a LOT of red and amber stuff and go against myself. They liked me there to control I guess and they screwed with my head when I was breaking away and trying to flush. I took that negative attention as a loaf. Then I ended up concentrating on micro stuff, I don`t know why, to regain some control when I felt I had none perhaps ( passenger situation?). I was definitely in denial about the big picture, I was even buying into their denial. You are right Natalie, the mistake was already made. ” Address the need to control the uncontrollable” Hm, I need to figure out why I have such trouble just accepting reality. I keep going in circles and it all keeps coming back to; I just need to trust myself.
A lot of people have control issues Laurie – they just present them differently. If you’re a Fallback Girl, – a Florence, Renovator, Flogger, Miss Independent/Miss Self-Sufficient, Yo-Yo Girl or the Other Woman – there are control issues in all of these relationships.
You’re a Renovator. Your job is not to shame yourself – your job is to be compassionate to you and deal with your issues. Sitting around feeling horrified has limited use other than using the feeling in the future, to remind you of where you don’t want to be again. Sort out your own insecurities. The truth is that a woman trying to control a man’s use of porn, is trying to control the presence of other women in his mind. It’s about feeling inferior, believing that you’re being undermined or that you’re not fulfilling him enough, when that’s just putting too much of you in it. Short of giving him a lobotomy, you couldn’t control his thoughts.
It goes beyond the scope of a comment to advise on major work. The blog is here to provide a springboard for you to start looking at things differently and taking action. There’s lots of posts on self-esteem, fear, beliefs (there’s some stuff at the library link at the top of the page), etc but if you feel it’s major work, go and see a professional.
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/100-tips-thoughts-for-better-self-esteem-because-if-you-dont-like-love-you-youll-choose-people-that-reflect-this/
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/are-you-insecure-about-whether-youre-insecure-in-your-relationships/
I would love to see you do a post about control NML,
I was involved in a controlling relationship and I’d love to see some alternative logic behind controlling behaviour.
I am the least controlled person there is. I was even discussing with my housemate yesterday about control. She said when she’s stressed she gets OTT OCD about cleaning. Whereas I’m the opposite- if I get stressed I let everything go. In a relationship I tend to let the man run a muck if he’s controlling—I let him be the driver.
I guess that for some when they feel out of control internally they seek to control things externally whether that be by controlling a person or controlling your living environment.
I also often wonder about this thing ‘locus of control’. It is said that people with internal locus’ of control (believe they have control over their environment as opposed to feeling like their environment controls them e.g. fate, luck.. etc.) suffer less from depression and stress.
Flowerpot
But I think you may be controlling, in a different way. You’re controlling your wants, emotions and needs because you’re afraid that if you expressed them, something bad will happen. You’ll look stupid. You may completely flip out. Everyone will hate you. Someone could end up dead (okay, slight exaggeration there I hope). Or you don’t even know HOW to express it
It may help to compare and contrast yourself with people who aren’t controlling at all – young children. They’re happy, they’re upset, they get excited, they get hungry, they get tired, they cry, quarrel, fight, make up, cuddle, demand attention. You can see the whole gamut and fullness of emotion and reaction. Of course, it’s not appropriate at work to burst out crying in a meeting because you need a nap, but do you feel that you’re constantly on guard against yourself?
People describe me as calm. I am the least controlling person I know when it comes to others – I accept them for what they are. Even twerps and ACS (I just don’t let them through my metaphorical door).
But for years I was plagued by self-doubt. I didn’t even know I was doing it, I was so used do it. Why question something when it’s all I ever knew?
it’s gone now, thankfully. Ditching the unhealthy (unequal) relationships is the big step 1 to instigating change.
Thanks, Natalie! I’m beginning the work. I will say this–I am coming to understand that there are things that I need to let go of because I’m insecure, and things I need to hold up as values and not get involved with someone who believes differently.
Meeting up with an ex — should NOT cause me concern unless the guy has given me a reason not to trust him. In which case, I shouldn’t be with him in the first place. I need to work on not being insecure/controlling in this area.
The porn issue on the other hand, I feel very strongly about. It’s more than just my insecurities – it is something that I am opposed to on a moral/philosophical level. I work with women who are victims of sex trafficking, and I believe porn contributes to this culture of objectifying and devaluing women. I know most people don’t feel this way, and perhaps I’m a prude BUT, this is something that I don’t want to compromise on. It is something that I am fundamentally opposed to. I don’t expect everyone to share this perspective, but I don’t think it means I am wrong in having this value. I just need to make sure I don’t get involved with someone who doesn’t share this belief.
Laurie,
I’ve been following your comments and I know you don’t need further vaildation of your values regarding porn but I agree 100% and I know others may not as well. That’s okay. I’m so turned off on so many levels, including moral, philosophical, and legal. If it is something you are fundamentally opposed to there is no compromise. It’s a boundary and we get to have boundaries, as I’ve learned on BR regardless of who agrees or disagrees. Many years ago, I bounced a guy who was into the porn thing, and trust me, I didn’t bounce more deserving AC’s. I didn’t want to control him, it was just a giant turn-off and even though I barely had any boundaries, porn was one. Just yuck. Nothing against folks who like it.
It’s all about shared values. Good luck to you. Sounds like you are heading in a good direction. Stick to your boundaries, even if it is only one for now.
Laurie I understand about the porn..especially on the level of the reasons you state. I would like to not think of myself as a prude but I remember once going on my exACs computer and there was SO much porn, so so much..I couldn’t believe he needed all of this and he was very unashamed about it. I didn’t feel jealous, that wasn’t an issue..but along with some other sexual habits displayed really really early on, only after the first three or four weeks (trying to coerce me into performing sexual acts—three/foursomes, exhibitionism etc.)..it made me wonder who I was involved with. I try to be as open minded as I possibly can and I do enjoy experimenting but after seeing someone just a few weeks I don’t not want to have to be asked for these kinds of acts or for my boyfriend to behave in this manner.
It goes back to what NML said in her red flags post about differing sexual values. You need someone who shares the same values as you do or who at least is open to seeing things from your perspective. The porn is a strong value of yours. You shouldn’t have to compromise on it.
Thanks, ladies. That actually means a lot. The more I think about it, the more I realize that the porn was indicative of a larger red flag: a lack of self control. My ex actually told me that he didn’t want to watch porn but couldn’t *help* himself. I think I would have had more respect for him if he said: this is what I do; I don’t think it’s a problem, etc. This lack of self control also came out in a more disturbing way: he had a volatile temper, and though he never hit me, he hit other things, pulled out his hair, screamed profanities in my face, etc. Again, he recognized it as a problem, but I never saw him do anything to deal with it.
I have come to accept: I cannot make someone act consistently with what they claim to believe. Here I was trying to control someone who had no self-control. How ridiculous! Also, I need to accept that someone’s actions are a more accurate reflection of what they truly value. Talk is cheap. I need to pour all my energies into living a life that is consistent with my own values. And I need to accept people as they are. In the future, if someone demonstrates that they can’t control themselves, I won’t apply for the position. It’s not my job. I can only control myself.
Exactly. Also, there is a book, “Girls Like Us” Rachel Lloyd, about human trafficing of young women…the sex trade…what they call “the life”…many of the methods are those used by the AC’s many of us have run into. Interesting and enlightening. Values. Education. Self-knowledge and self-defence. All necessary items for a healthy existence. Awareness of the methods used to rope people in is empowering but so damn depressing at times.
Laurie its not prudish not to accept the porn industry. It is very damaging to everyone no matter if they think it is or not. I dated an eu/not ac that had a porn addiction that ruined his life. He cant have a healthy relationship/ sexual relationship with anyone. I know several of my friends who’ve dated guys who watched so much porn that they couldnt get it up with dealing with a live girl. There is a whole industry devoted to helping people with porn addictions. Thats another thing that I’m glad I left behind, not watching porn, but not worrying about whether someone thinks I’m prudish or not. I am very healthy in the intimacy arena, noone should have to do degrading outlandish acts to ‘prove’ that they are worthy of someone else’s attention. Think about how stupid that is.
“This lack of self control also came out in a more disturbing way: he had a volatile temper, and though he never hit me, he hit other things, pulled out his hair, screamed profanities in my face, etc. Again, he recognized it as a problem, but I never saw him do anything to deal with it.” Umm, run Laurie, run. The porn thing is rotten to the core and coupled with a violent temper…you are next. This can’t be a committed relationship based on respect, love, trust, and honesty, right? Don’t wait for him to hit you. He will. God speed in getting out dear. Don’t wait to be hit. Dear lord, being hit or avoiding being smacked isn’t love. Please tell me you are running?
Hi Laurie, I just wanted to respond as I can see the comments descending into some porn debate at this rate – you are 100% right to have your values. What you’re 100% wrong to be doing is forcing your values upon your exes. You are not the Porn Board. You meet a man, he’s into porn, he says he can’t control his use of it and actually, whether he can control it or not, you have a no porn rule, you leave. Plain and simple. Case closed.
You are the person who has these values, is working with women who are victims of sex trafficking and then being with a man who likes porn – that’s pretty outrageous. It would be like me writing Baggage Reclaim and then being with a Mr Unavailable and abusing myself.
It’s not about what most people think – you don’t need to justify your values, you just need to live by them. I would also add that nobody said you were wrong for having the value. Something that you’re fundamentally opposed to is something that you walk away from – I’m fundamentally opposed to racism, control freaks, abuse, criminals and the list goes on. I don’t try to teach anyone who behaves in this way anything, I just don’t involve myself with them.
I’m glad he’s your ex here but oddly, after all of your porn comments, it concerns me that you would invest so much energy into commenting about and addressing the porn, when you were with a man who had rage issues. While you could describe it as a lack of control, really what it is, is about rage, which is different to anger. It’s like saying “It’s OK for him to have that high level of anger, just as long as he doesn’t react to it.” Yes reacting to it and throwing things, tearing his hair out etc is a problem, but it’s the fact that he has that high level of anger in the *first* place.
Be very careful of denial Laurie. You have blamed yourself, gone on about the porn again and again, and yet you have been in a volatile relationship where you also caught him out on a lie, broke off the engagement, and then had him turn the whole thing around on you. You’ve even gone back to him and wondered if it was down to your control issues. You didn’t say you broke off things over the rage – you said it was catching him out with the porn. I don’t know where you found this man with no job, no money, no education, a porn habit, a lying habit, immaturity, manipulative, and some serious anger issues but please toss him back to wherever he came from and focus on YOU. One person’s trash, is another person’s treasured trash.
Thanks, Natalie. I promise this is the last time I’ll use ‘porn’ in a post! I’m not sure why I fixated on that, but I understand that I was missing the forest from the trees (or a tree in this event). I guess it was more difficult for me to call a spade a spade when it came to the anger issue. I have no idea why. I do feel like I’ve learned my lesson in this relationship, and I know it has nothing to do with porn. It has to do with living consistently with my values, and not trying to change someone else’s values so that we can be compatible. I’m letting go of that need to control what I perceive as ‘bad’ behavior.
Runnergirl-I am out of that relationship. It’s been really hard, though. I actually told him a couple of weeks ago that everything was my fault, that I had tried to control him, etc. and that I didn’t want to do that anymore. Then I realized that even if I behaved ‘perfectly’ I would still be absolutely miserable. Instead of trying to change him, I would be compromising on some of my core values and putting myself in a potentially dangerous situation.
The two most important messages I keep learning through BR are to trust yourself and to be kind to yourself. Really working on these two has helped me change positively so much from a year ago (when I started reading BR), when I too couldn’t imagine really changing.
Button I agree! Those are the two most important messages to me too. I do know when something is awry, I always have. But what I used to do was tell myself that I was bad at relationships so what did I know. Then I would beat myself up when I realized my first instinct was correct and I ignored it. I would subconsciously beat myself into inaction for being so foolish. Not anymore. I’m calling a spade a spade and if I do make a mistake, I now know that noone is perfect and that includes me, that even I can get ‘it’ wrong at times.
So simple and so true Button. If more people lived with this at their core, there would be far less problems of the romantic kind, especially when it comes to allowing others to disrespect and abuse.
Great point. I’m just learning to set boundaries. Because of my upbringing I never knew about boundaries or that I had a right to let people know how to treat me. I always tried to please them and I thought stating my needs or setting limits would make them go away so I didn’t. Now that I’m going through the difficult (and rewarding!) life change of establishing and protecting my boundaries I’m finding that Guess What? boundaries DO make people go away, exactly the types of people you don’t want anyway. Dating is a process of discovering what you do and don’t want, not an exercise in trying to be what the other person wants. It has taken me a long road to get to a place where I am thinking of my needs first, and I won’t lie, it is incredibly difficult to stick to my guns when I know they can just go shag another girl the next day. But I must for my own self-respect and being true to myself. I keep telling myself I only need ONE, just one man in the whole world who sees that I’m worth waiting for/putting in the effort for. Truthfully, if I never find him I will still be happy on my own.
Feast to Famine- that IS a great point!
You said it sister. 🙂
“I’m finding that Guess What? boundaries DO make people go away, exactly the types of people you don’t want anyway.” Totally Feast to Famine, and it’s this that people who are still very embroiled in the idea of being The Good Person and pleasing someone who doesn’t concern themselves with respecting healthy boundaries, will struggle with.
What you have to accept is – if you think allowing someone to disrespect you will ‘win’ them over or even have them change, it won’t. What you won’t put up with, plenty of others will. To complain about someone else having the opportunity to be treated shittily by that person instead of you, is to do yourself a disservice.
It’s slowly sinking in. As has been said many times over, learning to like oneself, particularly after an entire childhood of abuse is, in fact, very difficult, but what finally struck me in this post is the focus on values. And yes I know you’ve written about values many times but this time, in this context, it really struck a cord, because it’s not just about shared values, it’s about my values. Regardless of the low self-esteem, sticking to important values that one can’t do without in relationships is imperative. I should value my values, more than any attention from any man. And anything less than that is jumping into the fire. By valuing my values, I’m valuing myself, which hopefully will boost the old self-esteem. Values will be my main motivation now… thanks for another stellar post.
I agree, neglect and abuse in childhood damaged my self esteem to the point where I continued to ‘self abuse’ myself in my adult life. I felt worthless – so I continued to put myself into situations in my life and relationships that reaffirmed that negative belief. My inner voice was always putting me down BUT once I learned to love myself, that verbal self abuse stopped. 🙂
“it’s not just about shared values, it’s about my values” Absolutely Oriana. Where people cause a lot of problems for themselves is they focus on making another person share their values instead of actually respecting their own values and recognising when there’s a difference that makes you incompatible.
What an awesome, awesome post. Especially nice to think about change at this time of year, when we look back at one year and look forward to the new. It’s so true: if we can bend ourselves into pretzels for a guy, changing our schedules, our diets, our wardrobes, our opinions, our mannerisms, etc (hell, I’ve done it), for a GUY, then why. the. eff. can’t we do it for ourselves?
We can do it for ourselves! I almost want to shout a hallelujah here …
Since my break up 15 months ago, I have learned so much about myself. Two steps forward, one step back, every day. Slowly I discover that I can feel in charge of my own life and actually like throwing energy into my decisions. I can feel powerful and pretty and wise and funny and … wait for it … hmm, look at that, no more internal asshole in my head snidely asking me who the eff I think I am. Big change!
I can actually feel some of the things I really really want, and feel how much work it would be to get them, and … hmm, I’m not collapsing, crying victim, getting pissed off, running to the fridge. Big change!
I can say no to shame. Big change!
I can think: Man. I can’t stand that b*tch/a**hole, and … I don’t bend over backwards trying to get myself to like them! Actually, they seem a lot less assclownish now that I feel no need to get over not liking them. Big change!
I’m beginning to crave sobriety, consistency, organization, and reliability, from myself and others, as much as I seek out vibrance, stimulation, excitement, glory and adrenalin. It isn’t one or the other; it isn’t boring guys versus charismatic winners; it’s about balance. Big change!!
Finally, I’m willing – finally – to let go of my old identity. She’s angry, and hurt, and mistrustful, and goes into dark rages, and she had good reason to do so, at one point. There is a lot of wisdom and unique perspective in that old identity. I don’t know what new identity will take her place, but sometimes now I find myself getting triggered, furious, about to attack verbally … and then I just let it go. That’s not – or it doesn’t have to be – ‘me’ anymore. Big change.
These changes come slowly, and some days, it feels like I’m back to square one. But every now and then we get a chance to take inventory. And then we can see we have made real progress. Props to BR, as always.
Mag,
Sometimes you go deeper than anyone…and you do that for others as well as yourself and I get that and am humbled… lump in the throat stuff.
Put your thumbs up for the two steps forward, one step back. At times there is no other way. It is about balance, much as vibrancy and depth and intelligence have their hour.. also we have to salute consistency and authenticity. We have to go beyond the signage, salute not enough, we have to sign up to the behaviour. Tough.
Magnolia, the woman who dissected the Hemmingway short story for others…can do anything. You put it out there, believe me..applaud your old identity as you see its passing. I am.
There is a lot of wisdom and perspective as you say..but she’s allowing it to be built on, she welcomes enhancements? I think your old identity is generous in that way? She’s well wise.
Magnolia, thank you for dissecting the Hemmingway short story for me. I totally missed the reset button when he bailed to deal with the luggage and returned with are you fine. That’s the the button I”ve failed to see in the past. On an up note, last year I would have been rooting for her to change him as they ride off into the sunset. I’ve changed. This year, I’m rooting for the girl to walk. I really liked your version of what happened to the girl. Your analogy of the girl and a woman is profound. We can change. Oh, and I probably don’t want to read anymore Hemmingway, Tolstoy….anybody have some good lit recommendations? Are all our great novelists EU’s?
Runner, Try Doris Lessing
…and Barbara Kingsolver
Try Cannongate’s myth series ‘The Peneleopiad’ or Atwood’s ‘The Blind Assassin’… if you do stray to Russian I prefer Mikhail Bulkagov’s ‘Master and Margarita.’
runnergirl
Thomas Hardy’s Far From the Madding Crowd. Fantastic heroine – headstrong, independent. BAD choices in men. Spot the AC. Terrible relationship behaviour. See how it turns out.
For some reason, I did “A Brave New World”. I had to watch the 1980 movie version because I’m frantically finishing knitting scarfs for my nieces and can’t read just yet. Oddly, “A Brave New World” was completely appropriate on many different levels. Once I got into it, I remembered it was one of my father’s favorites. He, he. But truly remarkable. So many perfect quotes from “I’ll set my dail so you can drive me wild” to “pompous and self-serving, perfect management material”. The movie certainly summed up everything Natalie writes about and where we could be headed, god forbid.
Oh thank you ladies. It sounds like I have a lot of reading to do over winter break.
Magnolia, wishing you the best in the upcoming year and beyond. You are an awesome inspiration.
Thanks for the comment, Mags. I am so glad for you, it’s such a wonderful thing, and I too applaud the old Mags who got you here the best way she knew, and who also gave you the chance to learn, and now share, these insights of yours.
I am hungover and happy today, and things feel good. But I can relate to that sense of slipping behind for a bit. I too at times get overwhelmed with the sense that I will never be able to get over the abuses, tragedies and, quite frankly, bizarre confusion of some aspects of my childhood and young adulthood. Really, some it is still very difficult. But, these days, it does feel like it is all starting to file into proper order in my mind, as the past, not as something so close to the surface of things. There are days and times when I think I will never escape that compelling instinct to shut-down or lash-out or (metaphorically) set fire to things. I sometimes think of myself as someone who will fight to the end, a narrative I’ve had for a long while. But, these thought-spirals are far less frequent and persuasive, as I practise being better to, and lighter with, myself, and remember that I must have been good, and wanted to be good, to myself all these years. As Lord of the Rings as I sound, there is something in us all along. Well done, Magnolia. I am really happy for you. And, this all reflects back onto NML’s changes and her generosity in sharing them.
Magnolia, Wise one, your fighting spirit will remain but become more integrated with your changes and growth…your whole self is adapting to new and yet retaining what’s been learned…you need your warrior to be with you as the protector she is but the shaman and peacemaker are also coming out and balancing and tempering your spirit. Your obvious growth is awesome. I remain, as always, in club Magnolia. P.S. : those people who let you hear nasty things knew they were being harmful and yet it was they who were trying to control you through such methods. Wrong as hell, but not untypical. The trick is to decipher what is worth fighting for. You are a light-bringer.Love ya.
Ladies, thank you. Sometimes I have no idea what I wrote that strikes you all, and then many of you respond so deeply that I myself am moved. Those moments, where all of you outside my head respond to something that is just me thinking stuff through “on the page,” have really touched me and give me pause. You remind me that it is special to have the opportunity to write.
I have managed to get as far as I have in my profession as a writer without writing stories. It’s pretty easy to hide behind the pretention and complicatedness of poetry or scholarship, and lately I don’t want to do that anymore. I’d like to write, like, a story. Or some stories. Maybe some magical stories, or some about my childhood. Or maybe some magical stories about my childhood!! Where ACs wake up in their beds covered with shiny scales! I’ve always – kind of – wanted to do that.
Coming here, I usually write without thinking (too much) of the performance of it. But I have had some of the most satisfying writing moments through this blog, wonderful moments of writing something down and it simply making sense for others.
In this process of learning to love myself, learning to notice what I like and what feels like a big fat YES, I have re-learned the profound satisfaction of simply saying what is true for me, without expectation, and then having that rewarded with others’ being able to relate. That and there are so many excellent writers here – such distinct voices! There are so many of you whose voices I feel like I have become familiar with, and I learn a ton from that.
I feel like you all might be helping me move into a whole new phase of work. I’m not at the place of committing to writing those stories yet (still worried about $$!). But I’d like to be.
Hmm. Just writing this entry out makes me think: Magnolia! Do it for the action of doing it. Prove to yourself you can do what you have always said you wanted to do. There has got to be some BR-kind of authenticity, courage, and self-love in that! Oh, but to say I will would mean I was committing and would open me up to “fail fail”ing … wanh!
Sigh. I want to change before I try, so that I know I won’t fail. But I probably won’t change unless I try. Argh! Dither, dither, dither … hmm, I feel a thought about the exAC coming on.
Superb post! How logical too. I can relate to so much of it, I changed so much trying to accommodate and please the ex-EUM by trying to be a perfect feminine doormat (cook, cleaner, masseur), kept conversations light, made special efforts to dress up, lashed out in anger and frustration early on, was “punished” with silence, then ended up apologizing for being too harsh and demanding. I made all sorts of compromises, excuses, kept biting my tongue, I couldn’t be honest or be myself around him, because the consequence would have been punitive, I’d have lost him if I didn’t communicate on his terms and on his level– if I was too assertive, too intellectual, too serious, too emotionally demanding, too witty, too communicative, too thoughtful, too complex, too literary. When I didn’t work, I tried even harder. I believed it was worth it and that I ought to change/be his perfect little woman in order to keep him in my life. It was a tacit “if you want to be with me then shut up and don’t complain” message. But I lost myself instead, all those changes were soul-eroding, alienating and I became someone I was not, practically a shell of my former self, someone who was dependent upon him and whose moods/well being could be dictated by what the contents of a SMS. It shocks me now when I think about what I did in order to win over his love. That was the real tragedy of the episode and it is never worth it to try to change for someone else and downplay one’s real needs/feelings in the process.
Jade, something about your post resonated very strongly with me. I think what you said about lashing out very early and being punished with silence was something that I experienced. I think in the beginning of getting involved with him I was very happy and confident…I had boundaries and sensed when they were being violated and my initial reaction was anger. But of course when I reacted to his misbhavior with anger, I was told I was in the wrong. I was the bad person. I was punished with silence until I morphed into someone that was always apologizing for things even when I wasn’t the person who did wrong because I didn’t want the cold shoulder and or to be made me feel so guilty for my own feelings. Once we made plans, and he stood me up. I reacted with anger and then I became the bad guy. I once expressed to him that I felt like something he did made me feel like he was taking advantage of me and he told me that was a red flag. All of that worked to silence me. I started swallowing my feelings and my pain in order not to be a “a good woman, and a good friend,” and to avoid being labeled a red flag that would make him not want to be with me. I bit my tongue, made excuses for his behavior, and compromised my feelings, needs, and even started to compromise my values. It was so foreign to me that someone would do something wrong and hurtful, but wouldn’t accept responsibility for it, but instead turn it around on me to make me feel bad for my feelings. It really dazed and confused me, and it took me a long time to realize this was manipulation. Especially because I had known him as an acquaintance for a few years prior and he was always so sweet and polite and respectful and kind to me. I was really caught off guard by all of this and it made me question myself.
You’re so right….about feeling like you will lose him if you are too assertive, too communicative, or have too high of emotional expectations. I felt like I had to deaden or numb myself in order to keep him in my life. I had to walk on egg shells and watch how I said every little thing so as not to offend him. But towards the end, when I was fed up…he couldn’t handle it because I refused to smother my feelings and my voice anymore. I started expressing my feelings again despite his reaction and as I was doing so…he’d disappear or run away. He’d wait a few weeks and…
Jade/StillHurt.
Been there. Nat’s words;
“I’m not sure where I’m going to end up, but I know where the frick I’ve been, and not treating me with love, care, trust, and respect is no longer an option.”?
Has to be the way forward for me now.
You are right, it takes a few miles hard hike to recover from unjustified criticism, the twist of words that makes you apologise for something they did or the fact that you had an WHOLLY appropriate reaction to being disrespected.
This is why the the rebuilding or the new build of boundaries is so important. These guys cannot operate when your boundaries are so intact that you know what is right and wrong for you. They try to switch on their weapons and just get a dull click.
I have a theory that these guys often know acutely that they have behaved appallingly, with real meaness,and the most important factor for them is to somehow hold onto the belief that they are ‘right’ or still ‘the good guy’,therefore you have to be the one at fault…In a way we are just props in their own little psychodrama,we seemed important at first but the more we take, buckle down to, the more our boundaries shift…the more they kick them down. Eventually they lose respect because why would they want to stay with a woman who takes every bit of BS they can offer. After all, they wouldn’t want it for their daughters/sisters,would they? It’s sick but its their logic.
I do not want it for their daughter/sisters either but more than that I will not have it for myself. I have begun to love and trust and respect myself too too much. I wish that for you too.
@Lyndafrom L, thank you for your affirmative words, good wishes and wise reminder. I totally agree with what you say, have a hunch that your theory about these guys is right (bafflingly true) and I wish you’ll be able to forge a positive way forward. My boundaries will be firmly in place from now on, no one in the world can be an exception or make me detract from myself again. I feel angry when I think about how I was a complicit participant in this insidious brainwashing– that I was made to feel I was the desperate, insecure, hysterical, aggressive one and ended up apologizing for things I needn’t have. My ex-EUM used to say “you’re always upset/angry with me”, without wanting to understand why. I found myself trapped in this straightjacket of having to be sweet, smiling and sexy all the time. But these moments of anger are also counterposed with sadness, I found myself weeping this weekend as I thought of how I really did try to be the best and most understanding person I could, it was misguided, unhealthy love but still real for me.
@stillhurt, your description of what you went through and your emotional trajectory, is exactly the same as mine, the part about self-negation, walking on eggshells so as not to offend him. It’s difficult to overcome the emotional residual feelings of hurt and betrayal, though one can break it down rationally. I keep replaying these moments and I wonder if it’s stalling my process of recovery. “It was so foreign to me that someone would do something wrong and hurtful, but wouldn’t accept responsibility for it, but instead turn it around on me to make me feel bad for my feelings”. I’ve given up trying to understand why/how people are like that, the best thing is to flee is these cases and not hang around trying to hope it’ll get better– I suspect these behaviors are compulsive and deeply entrenched. Like you, my ex-EUM was also polite, charming, elegant, a self-declared gentleman and I mistook all these qualities for something that signaled a good core, but it was merely a veneer, a smokescreen of kindliness, not true sincerity, empathy or care. We have to stop holding onto this fantasy figure, I think we feel we can manage these situations at the beginning but it just isn’t sustainable in the long run as one is bound to explode in rage due to this self-distortion and prohibition against being ourselves.
The title of this post says it all. It’s really that simple… easier said than done, but definitely simple.
I’m reading a very helpful book which addresses my low self esteem and former state of victim. It called”In Sheep’s Clothing-Understanding and dealing with manipulative people.” I noticed two earlier posts that claimed that the eum/assclown is hurting himself just as much as he is hurting you. I disagree since reading the above mentioned. These people are character disordered personality. They hurt you and don’t care. They don’t have enough conscience to care what damage they’re doing to another because they are completely wrapped up in their thing, satisfying their illicit desires and “winning” at all costs and at your expense. I dumped the eum >3 months ago. He is literally unable to reach me nor can I reach him if I were to weaken. I’ve blocked him from my land line and cell. He cannot even text me and doesn’t have my email address. He thinks he is the greatest man walking on earth, so he would never ring my doorbell. Thank God. These men enjoy pulling the wool over your eyes. and will never change because it is a long standing modus operandi and works for them. They truly mean you no good. They won’t deal with having hurt you because you are not important. They see nothing wrong in their behaviour and are incapable you giving you love, care, trust and respect. They are just not made up that way. And, for you, you need to get past the feeling that have any remorse or regret about the end of the “relationship”. I have learned sooo much with Natalie, a psychologist, reading helpful material and getting support from my best friend, my sister. I have truly changed. I recognize that I was exceedingly vulnerable when he intruded into my life. I had warned him that I was no longer the depressed wimp that he initially took up with. But, he didn’t believe me. All he wanted was to continue exploiting me for his own pleasures. It has been so difficult for me to accept that these kinds of people exist in the world, but there are plenty of them. Once you face reality, stop kidding yourself, redirect the focus on yourself. You can change because no way in hell can you see them in the light that you once did. You have become stronger and wiser than you thought you could be. It gives me great comfort t know that I will never get into another unhealthy relationship with ANYONE because I know the signs. Praise the Lord!
Tinkerbell, there are indeed sociopath people with no emotional concepts that exist and do ‘use’ people. They are completely toxic and yes, they will never change because it is a mental problem that is unchangeable and untreatable.
However, in general, emotionally unavailable people (male and female) are usually ‘broken’ or ‘wounded’ people that can in fact change for the better – if they learn to heal.
I consider myself a former emotionally unavailable woman, and I hooked my ride to emotionally unavailable men. I have healed myself and have changed and will continue to change for the better for the rest of my life.
EU people CAN change for the better and become healthy people. Not all EU people change though. Some are stuck in a life where they are the walking wounded forever – they are hurting themselves.
Sociopaths, psychopaths are mentally ill, and permanently unchangeable – they are very damaging and yes they should be avoided.
Barbara,
What do you think was your turning point? The change or event or time line that it took for you to become emotionally unavailable? Did you consciously make some change, realize you needed help? Get counseling, or something else? Just wondering. I question my own emotional availability b/c in the past few years I’ve been attracted to EUM like a magnet.
Crumbs, my childhood made me emotionally unavailable. I mean I was not mentally healthy, suffered abuse, and I started having sex at 14 because I thought that was how to get attention that I needed. I equated sex to love. I never understood what real love was.
One man after another it built up to the point where by my mid 20s I felt worthless. I had also witnessed my mother who is a classic Florence, and learned her behaviour, taking in men that I was going to ‘save’ and ‘fix’ because my love was that powerful… I was a total train wreck.
I met a very mentally ill man, and spent 7 years with him. I lost everything, my house, my car – myself. I got to the point where I thought the only way out was to kill him or myself or both. My cats were my only reason for living in my mind, and I reached out to my family whom he’d disconnected me from. They were shocked to see the state of me, and extracted me with the help of the police. I was 33. I felt I had died. I literally had to start my entire life over.
I swore I’d not get involved with another EUM and heal myself.
However 6 months after my rescue, I met my now 2 yr old daughter’s dad. He certainly isn’t the worst of men. He has all the classic problems of someone who is EU (someone that has a history of low self esteem, bad childhood, and string of bad relationships but someone who if they took the time to heal could be a fabulous person.)
I thought he and I were both on a path to heal ourselves. I was wrong, and it is now 5 years since we first met and he is exactly the same person he was then. I thankfully was able to see how I was healing and growing and he was not.
I attended my first therapy sessions at the age of 15. I have sought therapy on and off over the years, however now I am able to ask myself the questions a therapist would.
If you want help seek it. Therapy can open your eyes. Don’t fear any kind of stigma, A LOT of people seek help in their lives. It is normal. See a therapist, talk to your doctor, or someone in your church even? Join a help group? No one will judge you for it.
Hi Tinkerbell,
I’ve read that book and it is a real eye opener. When I was with my ex I always had this feeling in the pit of my stomach about his actions and intentions. Something just didn’t ring true. He appeared to be benevolent and so accommodating to all his friends and family, but he would come out with these thinly veiled nasty comments, disguised as a “joke”.
When I started to put the pieces together, I came to realize that he was without a conscience…for all the “good” things he was doing for everyone..he left a trail of people behind him that had these vague uneasy feelings about him…just like I did. We compared notes and I gave a few people that book and it was a light bulb went on for all of us. He lost a number of friends in one fell swoop after we figured it out…
Even when we were together and he would tell me he “loved me”, the tone in his voice was hollow and just got a chill up my back every time…and of course within two months of meeting me he wanted us to move in together….I just looked at him as if he was crazy and said…”Er…No…not a good idea…
That book, In Sheep’s Clothing, but the final nail in the relationship coffin…I tried to break up with him twice before…and he wooed me back in…but after I read that book and could make sense of what I was dealing with…I was just scared straight and broke up with him the next day…no further contact…I have been NC for almost a year…blocked him on everything..
Congratulations on getting out.
The only person you can change is *you* and your perception of what is happening in your world.
The idea that that we have dysfunctional and self-defeating behaviours in and out of relationships is somewhat challenging to most of us. I could not entertain the idea that I had somewhat been a party to crap behaviour. In fact, as I found out, I enabled it and rewarded it. For years I asked the same question “why does this (insert drama) happen to me?”
Why indeed.
I was taught to be nice, polite, sensitive yet sexy, and not a person who would intentionally rock the boat. My role model was a mother who traded on her looks and who kept me hung up on mine for years. Growing up, I always had lots of close male friends some of whom would complain about their girlfriends or friend’s girlfriends. I heard the words whipped, obedient, b*8ch and slave bandied around. I of course took note of the derogatory comments and vowed that they would never be applied to me. Mix in a hint of parents failed marriage, a pinch of stubbornness, a thimbleful of desire for freedom, a strong work ethic, and you have a recipe for disaster. I didn’t care if a relationship didn’t work out, it was really just a case of next. The last *disaster* was the slap in the face that I needed.
In reading Natalie’s blogs I had to admit to myself that I had been hopelessly unavailable all my life and had to take responsibility for the situations I found myself in. Plus I was just being too darn nice to dickheads. Strangely, these ideas were confronting and empowering at the same time. Life stopped *happening to me*. It wasn’t fate, it was me that kept me locked in perpetual dramas. The realisation was life changing.
I am not convinced you will achieve or even see evidence of a step-change overnight, but I seem to have made significant inroads in my dealings with others. So I *know* that my changes moved from thoughts to actions.
I gave a book how to please men straight back to the well meaning relative who gave it to me as birthday present and reminded them that swinging upside down from a crystal chandelier in a gstring with whipped cream was not going to win me respect from men(would have kept it to be nice), left a very lucrative job (never done this), spent 1 minute with Amytiville Horror 4 – Return of the Assclown when he returned from living overseas I ran into him…
The idea that that we have dysfunctional and self-defeating behaviours is somewhat challenging to most of us. I could not entertain the idea that I had somewhat been a party to crap behaviour. In fact, as I found out, I enabled it and rewarded it. For years I asked the same question “why does this (insert drama) happen to me?” Why indeed.
I was taught to be nice, polite, sensitive yet sexy, and not a person who would intentionally rock the boat. My role model was a mother who traded on her looks and who kept me hung up on mine for years. Growing up, I always had lots of close male friends some of whom would complain about their girlfriends or friend’s girlfriends. I heard the words whipped, obedient, b*8ch and slave bandied around. I of course took note of the derogatory comments and vowed that they would never be applied to me. Mix in a hint of parents failed marriage, a pinch of stubbornness, a thimbleful of desire for freedom, a strong work ethic, and you have a recipe for disaster. I didn’t care if a relationship didn’t work out, it was really just a case of next. The last *disaster* was the slap in the face that I needed. In reading Natalie’s blogs I had to admit to myself that I had been hopelessly unavailable all my life and had to take responsibility for the situations I found myself in. Plus I was just being too darn nice to dickheads. Strangely, these ideas were confronting and empowering at the same time. Life stopped *happening to me*. It wasn’t fate, it was me that kept me locked in perpetual dramas. The realisation was life changing.
I am not convinced you will achieve or even see evidence of a step-change overnight, but I seem to have made significant inroads in my dealings with others. So I *know* that my changes moved from thoughts to actions. Here’s the proof – Spent 1 minute with Amytiville Horror 4 – Return of the Assclown when he returned from living overseas I ran into him downtown (would have invited out for a coffee previously), listened with boredom at a friend’s bbq to his woe is me tales of his chick dejour pseudo relationship not working because of her issues (would have sympathised previously) and if he rings me (used to all the time) I ain’t picking up the phone. After being told to ring on the Sunday after Valentine’s last year for a chat, I was then told not to because his live-in girlfriend (news to me) was…
It’s interesting because this whole “relationship” I was in really opened my eyes. It made me realize so much about myself that I don’t think I would have seen otherwise,especially not to such a large degree. I have changed a lot since that disaster ended and I began to read this blog. I can honestly say that although it was hurtful and exhausting, spending my time with that person for a handful of months was one of the greatest things I could have done for myself. I know that sounds weird but what resulted from it all- the moving forward- has been an amazingly rewarding journey. My self-esteem no longer is where it was at the beginning of this year and being in that “relationship” made me realize what I want and how I’m deserving of all those great things that individuals in committed relationships possess. And I’ll get there, we all will but for right now I am sincerely enjoying this discovery phase and all the self learning and improvement attached with it.
Michelle, I hear ya. I finally feel like I am worthy of being with a good man. I used to shy away from ‘healthy’ men because I frankly didn’t think I was good enough for them. Now I have healed and had self discovery, and I know now I am indeed ‘good enough’ to deserve real healthy happiness.
With you in this ladies! I realised that I am no longer saying what a waste of time my 17 months with the EUM were… I’m saying ‘ Tough but what did I learn about myself?’
im not sure where to begin because i have changed myself so many times i have lost count. I am a recovering sex and love addict , have been involved with as many as 4 men at once, married men as well, even while I was married.i ended my bad marriage, and whiddled myself down to one man, that i thought cared about me. He also oddly enough one night, asked if i had “abandonment ” issues? we would gettogether weekly, have sex, talk on the phone daily, he bought me presents. I thought he cared about me. Well, i had a small surgery 2 weeks ago and he forgot, didn’t call , didnt come see me(even though he said he would) well, i lost it, i ended it with him and absolultely embarrassed myself telling him for days how selfish he was etc , etc. well, then I panicked, and pleaded for him to come back and I will lower my expectations. He often asked to take me to a swingers club to watch me have sex with another man. I offered to do this if he would come back. I feel like I have sold the last of my soul. he is asking me for naked pictures now too, etc, and i fear may be manipulating me. I am such a mess. I have never in many years been on my own , and I have changed to fit whoever I was with and I am scared
Katy, go No Contact, and stay alone and single and heal yourself. You clearly know what your dysfunctions are. Seek therapy to get back to being a healthy person. You can change. You just have to believe you can and take the first step. It will get easier, you just have to want to stop the madness and drama that is your life. You have to want to stop degrading yourself. You have to be the change.
If you are scared and feel uncomfortable then don’t do it by all means. Leave that guy. I know it is easier say that done, it will hurt, but you would hurt more if you lower your expectations any more.
Thank you, I know you are right, i feel so bad when I end it, and then beg him to come back. I even apologize. He is much older, 30 years actually, and isn’t interested in a relationship. I just thought because we went out sometimes, and he bought me things and we talked that he cared about me. It is such a struggle, and appreciate the support. Being a sex addict, many people think it is always about sex , but actually has nothing to do with it. I liked the attention, etc. and if i were to list everything i have done, would be humiliating.
katy
i’m not sure that it’s helpful to call yourself an addict? i don’t know enough about it but be careful of painting yourself into a corner “i can’t help myself, I’m an addict”. that said, heroin addicts, alcoholics, smokers do kick their habits every day and you can too. When you do, don’t call yourself a “recovering addict” or an “ex-addict”.
I used to smoke. I don’t think of myself as an ex-smoker or a recovering smoker. It would make me feel that I was in constant danger of smoking again when it’s just not on my radar at all.
Call it what you will, what I see is a woman being jerked around. You are also putting yourself in physical danger. I suppose it’s pointing out the obvious but do not get naked in a roomful of men.
Yes he is manipulating you. Still, there’s something you can be cheered by – you do have a limit! take your self-respect and your dignity, and get away from this Loser User. It all sounds hideous. Choose better for 2012. Choose better for TODAY
Katy,
I just see you as reaching out here, to affirm that what you are going through is not what you want or somehow you have ended up in an unsafe situation and recognise that.
His question about’abandonment’ issues makes me think his agenda is shady at best, especially when it was followed by suggesting you hit a swingers club together… but you know that.
Re the label you use Sex addict. I can’t claim to know how you were diagnosed as being so..who told you this etc? Are you attending a group for this? The term ‘recovering’ would make sense if so. Many addicts choose to use this term when they quit the substance of their addiction, indeed are encouraged to do so by the group because it both recognises the addiction/highlights the future recovery. This is perhaps most common if you are in a 12 step group which you don’t mention….?
The crucial point is that noone gets in the way,muddies or sidetracks you from your path to wellness. The guy you describe and his suggestions fly in the face of this. You need to raise this with your therapist or group as soon as possible. If you are strong enough Katy you need to stay away from this guy, utterly.
Thank you, yes I was diagnosed a few years back as a sex and love addict and did attend therapy and 12 steps. I have had several relapses and just have to start doing something instead of talking. This man i wrote of, did zero in on my abandonment issues which took me by surprise. Noone ever said that in so many words before. I have ended it with him several times and panic and try to go again. Nat has talked about this before, but i still struggle with breaking it off because, he is a hard worker, has lots of money and lots of friends. everyone likes him. I know that seems crazy but I still focus on that .
katy
yes, it’s crazy.
His money has got nothing to do with you, neither have his friends unless they’re the same friends he wants you to have sex with. There are easier ways to earn a living than being pimped out by a man and waiting for handouts.
If you feel that money and friends are missing in your life, then it’s better to get those things for yourself rather than getting them one step removed from a man. The playa I was involved with had lots of friends too and a good income. It was sod all benefit to me. I didn’t even get any decent presents.
These days, I live on a modest income and am only quite comfortable. I feel rich though because I have peace of mind. You may find money less important when you are happier. However, if you really are in dire financial straits, see a debt counsellor. But Iif you got rid of this man I think you’d naturally find an upturn in all areas of your life. You possibly wouldn’t need all the counselling I’m recommending!
He’s a hard worker – aren’t we all? Get on my train to the City and it’s chock full of hardworkers. You can’t move for them. I bet only a very small minority of them would want their girlfriends to have sex with other men.
And he didn’t forget your surgery. He didn’t want to be bothered by it. He’s a selfish git. Everyone likes him? I don’t!
Katy, As Grace wrote, I am in agreement with her, I want to add that what another has does not mean they will share it with you…this is something I think many people fail to comprehend…go after the person with xyz and I will get xyz…maybe you will but what does it cost you? If you have what you need and are taking care of yourself then everyone else is a gift but not a need and you can treasure them in whatever capacity they as people offer you not as people who have things (money, popularity, power, fame, etc)that you want for yourself. I am very pleased that you are working the program not just acknowledging it exists…action is required…anyone who pimps you out is just a pimp and you my fine femme are better than that even if you do not acknowledge it at this point.
Great article as usual Natalie!! Hmm I changed- last night in fact. The last two guys I really liked and kind of dated blew me off- or last minute bailed on me because they “had to work” or “fell asleep.” I gave them more chances- which ended up being more chances to blow me off again! So last night when I got stood up by the new guy because he too “fell asleep” I told him “I hope she was worth it, you are scum.” He didn’t like that too much…you know what? I don’t care. No one is walking on me again. And I’m pretty sure once you cultivate this kind of attitude- decent guys will start to show up.
Yup. If you respect yourself – other people respect you too.
Thought I would share this quote I saw today:
“Some people come into your life as a blessing AND OTHERS come into your life as a LESSON.”
Excellent!!!
I needed to read this post. I needed to recognize the power of change rests with me, not whom I am with. Bad! EUM relationship of one year. No Contact for 2 months. Feel good and strong and happy.
A fellow that I have known as a friend for many years asked me out a few weeks ago. His wife passed away a year ago. We are about the same age, work in the same field and have common interests. I panicked. I started looking for the “code red and amber”. I just assumed that the codes would be there. And that I needed to protect myself.
They are not there. He wants to spend time with me, talk to me, walk with me, make me dinner, hear about my day, go out for coffee and teach me to ski. He is interested in my life. There are no inappropriate advances, no blowing hot and cold, no fast forwarding or future faking….there are no games here.
Thing is, I needed to change. To see that what I assumed would just be the normal “challenges” or relationship “potential” (ie: it will be a mutual relationship once he is happier, not so busy, the divorce is final….as it was with last guy ) just are not here; this man actually wants a mutual and caring relationship with me. Hard to explain. I need to change to recognize this and begin to enjoy it. Tracy
what i need to change
1 If I feel uncomfortable and upset, that’s my inner warning system kicking in telling me that I am in danger of losing my sanity. I will listen to my body, be aware of my emotions and honour my feelings. If I am unhappy in any work/friend/partner relationship and it’s early days…leave. If they can’t make an effort in the first three months, then it’s really doomed.
2 Honesty is a personal value yet I never correct people when they lie. WTF. At what point do you stop turning a blind eye to the small stuff and say “hey, you said…” Any tips on how to address this diplomatically?
3 I actually don’t hold people to what comes out of their mouths especially the m word or the k word.
Now must question men who say you could be my wife, when we are married, when we have children, I never thought I would want to get married again, now I’ve changed my mind. Sadly, I don’t believe them when they make these comments to me. Is it just me? Have I got intimacy fatigue? Have I normalised this rubbish talk as meaningless? I *would* *never* *dream* of *saying* *things* I *don’t* mean *at* the *time*.
Note to self – call them on it. Why aren’t we calling our parents when we hear talk of marriage? It’s a major life event. Note to self – call parents when I hear talk of marriage again if I suspect it’s hot air. Next person who says when we are married will be marched off to Tiffany’s pronto because as someone pointed out to me – they missed one important step – I was never given an engagement ring. Kids you say? That’s lovely. Do you want kids? How many? We should start planning now. Would you like to stay at home and raise them, or should I?
Should I check in with people when they make these statements? In one particular instance, this led to an epic The Young and Feckless style scene when I blew a gasket due to ongoing disrespectful interactions as well as a month of meaningless references to marriage. I was incensed by the latter. I called his bluff and told him to marry me or go away. He ran away and afterwards, I’m sure he convinced himself that I had secretly been scheming and plotting to covertly trick him or force him to marry me *cue evil laugh*. Nope, last minute decision to raise the topic and I only said something then because I hadn’t addressed the marriage bs comments earlier. I’m amazed that he conveniently forgot I didn’t want to discuss going forward, moving in and freaked out when either topic was mentioned. But then…should I have been surprised that I forgot.
Wow Buffy.
you are so right. I also have to learn to listen to my body and be aware of my emotions and feelings. So many times I get caught up on his emotions and trying not to hurt his feelings and never stop to ask myself how am i really feeling? do I really want this??
And i value honesty and have caugh guys lying early in the relationship and don’t know how to confront them or if I should confront them at all. It might be stupid stuff, but it does botter me.
And I have also experienced a guy talking like “if we become serius……” “if we date….” The question is :does he want a serious relationship with me? or is he just saying?
I have learned that in case of doubt then they don’t mean it, if they wanted a relationship there would not be any doubt.
Allie,
You’ve raised some good points.
I’ve made some mistakes in the past because I haven’t checked in to get some understanding on what the other person wants, needs or expects and how they’ve defined serious. To some it might mean you are exclusive and to others that might mean that you spend five nights out of seven together at your house. It’s pretty hard when you hand the power over to someone else to define your relationship. It’s your right to define or co-create your relationship and don’t let anyone else tell you otherwise.
all the best
Allie, sounds like some of the questions were hypothetical and a way to sound out your thinking and ideas…what we must do, IMO, is be brave enough to ask the hard questions and and be prepared to walk when the answers and actions don’t fit with our needs. So tough when you like someone and want more. Well, we eventually find out one way or the other.
Thanks.
I get it! the message has always been to move towards me- Not others. I need to learn to decipher what’s healthy vs what’s not before I consider changing. I do try these days to remember myself when I am dating. I have always been one the got swept up by him. From the first date it was all him him him, and I didn’t even see it. These days I look at the small stuff, does he include me in any choices about the date? how does he respond to my input about what we do or where we go?
Not to be petty, but I did blow off a very cute guy who went in a lecture about how I need to call him since it was he that made the initiative to ask for my number. I decided that this was not an avenue I wanted to explore, didn’t want to know more about him. I had enough information about where I needed not to be (you know, analyse the feedback and act appropriately?). I bumped into him while I was having lunch with friends. he came to the table and again he went into a long lecture about this phone call that I had to make, my “obligations” towards those who asked for my number. He never even noticed my friends nor did he acknowledge them. I was left thinking, boy I must have a really low self esteem, coz believeyou me, in the past, I would have gone for any man that showed interest in me, even if they showed me just how self-absorbed he was from day one.
Anyhow, I call this progress….Good change
Barbara, I think there are many different kinds of EUM’s. I maintain that most of them won’t change. First off, they need to realize they have a problem and WANT to correct it. Most of them are too self-absorbed and too lazy to make the effort. They are perfectly satisfied “playing” people and they know how to pick their targets. They have a penchant for aggression and seduction. Often they have quite a charismatic personality and offer a good time spent with them until you realize that they are not the person you thought they were. They mask their true intentions so well and feel fine doing it. Perhaps, this kind of person is a sociopath. As a matter of fact I was labelling my ex a sociopath until I dug for more information. There are so many different kinds of these unsavory personalities. I think the common bond is that they are character-deficient. I do agree that a person can change if they want to do so, but first they have to recognize the harm they do to others. If one is character-deficient and miraculously comes to the conclusion that he does not wish to continue on the same destructive path, then I believe he needs to enlist professional help to accomplish a true. lasting change. I’m glad you wanted to change and have done so.
Tinkerbell, (saw that you responded down here by mistake) and just want to say, you were Emotionally Unavailable too. Even if temporarily, and you became involved with an unavailable man. It takes 2. One to do the ‘playing’ and one that allows their self to be ‘played’.
I ended an almost affair with a MM because I couldn’t tolerate the situation. I’m still hung up on him and it’s been a year. I know it was a good decision for me but when will this get better? After the break he did not pursue me nor I him. But our paths cross sometimes, and I feel very down when I know he intentionally avoided a situation where he knew he would see me. Why does he do this? I want to think it’s because he cares about me, but I come to this site and guess that he’s probably with someone else. So how do I get to the point where I don’t care anymore and how specifically do I start validating myself? Any advice would be appreciated.
Daisy. It is very hard. I was in a horrible situation with a married man. After 23 years of a good marriage, I was unprepared and ill-equipped to deal with this person. I was very depressed and needy when he came along. Plus, I had known him for 5 years. I knew he had been with a certain woman for many years, but I did not find out that he had actually married her until I was already roped in. I could not see them being together and felt that I was the person he should be with. I knew I was wrong, but didn’t care. Thankfully, I’ve been brought up to have good character and wanted to get out of the situation. I kept asking him if he wanted to break up because things were going downhill and he kept telling me “No”. But, after 6 months I just could not go on any longer. I knew it could never be a true progressive relationship and I tired of his lack of consideration for my feelings and the lack of respect was increasing. He had a great personality which I loved even more than the sex which was very good also. It was very, very hard to maintain NC. It was one of the most difficult things I’ve had to do ever, but I was deeply disillusioned and saw more and more things about him that I had not noticed. I was slowly starting to wake up and smell the coffee. You can do it. Just dig deep and find the
DETERMINATION. It is not impossible if you really WANT OUT.
I better be able to change, because the way I’ve been allowing myself to be a OW doormat with persona-non-grata status is just disgusting. I’ve had some galvanizing events happen recently, and I’m DONE. I’ve said I’m done for months, but now is the time for ACTION and I’m not looking back. I could beat the crap out of myself about it too, which would be my uncomfortable comfort zone as well, but not this time. It’s time to LOVE myself. I’ve been beat up enough. Nothing like making changes when change is due – forget New Year’s Resolutions. Can’t put this off for another second.
Thank you Natalie for being my voice of reason yet again. I’ve been reading this blog for about 2 months now, and I wouldn’t be anywhere near this mindset without your wisdom and insight. NC is my goal, yet I’m currently working a short-term exit strategy. Mental flush is in process!
Hi Nat,
Its been a long time since ive posted but I read each new blog without fail.
This blog was and is a huge reason why I was able to go NC with an X who had shattered my confidence. Anyone on here that remembers me knows i had the hard task of working on the same floor as my x. V-hard stuff. He finally left 6 months ago without saying a word. Just kinda vanished and strangely enough I hit bottom. Was a big suprise to me since I thought id already hit bottom during the grief period. This last thing was to tap into my horrible abdonment issues even deeper than ever and bring up things about my mom. I didnt know this untill i started to get my anxiety problem back, panic attacks and all. The last time i had this problem was 7-8 years ago and i sought therapy and used tools to help me get a handle on it. Now its back and im exhausted, scared, skinny and my life feels like its been stolen slightly as im unable or find it difficult to do normal things like go to work, catch the bus, gym or go out. Im back at therapy and i also have time off from work over the xmas break. So this post has hit a good time for me, to remember change is possible, ive done it for men and all the worng reasons and turned myself inside out. Most importantly ive done it for me and now i need to find my way back there. I need to find the faith i had back then, use tools, believe in myself and no that with a little work ill be o.k no matter what. What have i learnt so far from this experience? is that i truly appreciate what i thought was my mundane life, to be able to do things with ease, to go to the gym and even to go to work with some ease/confidence. All gifts 🙂 Peace of mind and contentment is the most amzing gift to have and horrible to lose. Ive learnt that my mothers abdonment runs a lot more deeply then expected. That my x leaving with out saying a word, even though we had been apart for 2 years, gave me the same feeling “im so worthless that he would not even think to say goodbye” I realise this is a common feeling ive had. It comes from how i felt when mum left. So im being brave, change comes from a hard place and with hard work. I love myself enough to face this again, im worth it 🙂
Take care everyone
Merry Xmas Nat 🙂
Change is possible if you want it, really want it. I can change and have because I wanted to end the bad situations I got myself into. I wanted to be more fulfilled with myself and feel proud of my authenticity. I am getting there, each day presents new challenges, some I climb over easily, some I trip over but I get back up and learn from it. I think even my ex’s can change. They either aren’t ready or don’t want to. If they do, I have left them behind and won’t know and it won’t matter anyhow. Life moves forward. Like Magnolia said, two steps forward, one back. That’s still forward. Thats change in motion. Stagnation is doing nothing but waiting for change. Take the reins.
I love the Kierkegaard quote: “life can only be understood backward; but it must be lived forward.”
I try and recognise even the smallest step I make forward on this path of change I am taking… I am hoping that in time I will turn and realise that I have travelled so far that the person who set me on this journey is nothing but a faint dot on the horizon. Even baby steps add up to a great journey if you take enough of them.
I’m right there with you Blue Skies and Sunshine…love the quote too!
i am not advocating changing a player.
in saying this, i want to point out that players are never worth it …
but the man who values a solid relationship — is!
players can hang themselves … and i feel they do everyday. they are fooling themselves if they think that a life of scoring is the ticket.
finally, i think in the end, they come to that sad realization too … and in their blackest moment, if they are lucky, will hope one day they’ll find someone for them. if they don’t, it’s a massive and lonely loss.
lynne, it is sad, but it is up to them to change just as we are changing ourselves. At least the tools exist and the ablility is there for the willing.
Hi Buffy,
Your post resonated with me. I cannot fathom people how anyone can say such serious things and not mean it (or how someone can supposedly mean it in the moment but not in any kind of real sense). I saw the EU lie to others, and I caught him in some lies to me. I called him out on occasion, only for him to deny or justify. He always went on about having no money, and pressed me to get him a gift at one point when he knew that I did not have much disposable income. After I bought it for him, he inadvertently left an ATM receipt lying around showing that he had a decent amount of savings. When I called him on it, he tried to say it was someone else’s receipt, then switched to saying that “even if” it was his, his expenses are such that the amount would only last for a month. Sigh. He also mentioned marriage a lot, always fishing for *me* to tell *him* that I wanted to marry him one day. Yet we weren’t even officially in a relationship. It seems like the first step would be for him to excitedly talk about us being bf and gf, no? If I’m someone you could see yourself marrying, why not talk to me about progressing things *right now* instead of making some grandiose statements about the future? And if you don’t mean it, why bring it up–it’s not as though I was pushing for it or said anything along those lines. Maybe he just wanted to get me to say it to boost his ego…
I’m NC now, but still, I keep on blaming myself b/c I was in a LD relationship when we started seeing each other (which he knew…and he pursued me). I told him that I separated from my bf once we started seeing each other, and I never saw my LD from that point on. I should have made a full on break (my own issues, I know) but if he really wanted me, couldn’t he have had the balls to come right out and say so, rather than hinting once or twice at how he was free and clear and the only thing in the way was my having unfinished business? I guess I was hoping he could come right out and TELL ME that he wanted me, and I wasn’t comfortable enough to just ask and clarify what we were doing. He called me every day, throughout the day, and we saw each other a lot….I could tell that he fell for me, but then he would always pull back. I made the excuse that it could be b/c of my situation, but I wasn’t comfortable breaking it off completely with my LD for this guy when he was not consistent with me. We never went out, which I didn’t mind really b/c I was so happy every time we were together and just loved being around him so much, but it did bother me on some level that he wasn’t at least putting *some* effort in.
I realize this all has EU written in bright flashing lights–him getting involved with someone who isn’t single, me getting involved with him without making a clean and clear break with the LD bf. But I do keep on blaming myself and wondering what if….what if I had just made a clean break, at least if the EU pulled this crap I wouldn’t be sitting here blaming myself. That, and as much as I read and as much as it makes sense, I really thought this guy could be ‘the one’….and I’ve never felt that way before. I know that he had feelings for me….but he broke it off, blaming it all on the me for still having someone else in my life. Even after I told him I ended things with my LD (a week or so later), and it seemed like we were re-kindling things… I brought up what we doing a couple of times….and nothing. It would be nice to just understand–does he just not want to commit? Seems plausible since he can’t even commit to planning to see someone even a day in advance. Does he just not value me enough to try to give it a shot after I didn’t “choose him” early enough….even though it wasn’t clear if he had chosen me?
Sorry this is so long…..clearly this is all running through my mind all over again. BR really helps, but the thoughts, questions, regrets, are still there all the same…
A, read through your post…he lied, you were unavailable, the assn was bound to fail through dishonesty on all fronts. Learn from it and go on…I think you need to address the losses you’ve had and all of the reasons you stayed in both assn’s. Reviewing and seeing more about your own role will assist you in not returning to similar events in your future.
Thank you Natalie for reminding me that I CAN change. I have sat in stunned silence thinking “how did I get here?” “How did I manage to do this to myself? Care about and invest in such a messed up man?” But then I paused and looked back and realized that I’ve allowed him to manage down my expectations, and I’ve driven myself nutty trying to get him to have and want a normal relationship with me. That sounds so ridiculous, which it is. I’ve never met anyone before who has seemingly just wanted crumbs from me (and has gotten upset with me when I’ve stopped doling them) and expected me to be happy and grateful for just crumbs in return. Bizarre. I guess the last girl he went out with did a number on him or something and he hasn’t dealt with it or he just likes me just in a “I’m bored now lets see what she’s doing” kind of way, which is not flattering or heart warming. I have issues but thank goodness at least I can see how unhealthy it has been. It has negatively impacted my emotional and physical health. I am in the process of healing and have been meeting new people, spending more time with God, and exercising more self-care…it is making a difference. I encourage you all to do the same.
I too believe it’s possible to change and as hard as it may seem at the time to learn to love yourself and have values and bounderies. These men at times are so ‘altered’ in their own behaviour that they brain wash us into thinking we can ‘do no better’ than to be their ‘door mat GF/Ego stroke/OW”. My AC called me yesterday on a blocked number pretending to be someone else (gross)…. previously I would have listened and emphasised but I was completely not interested. Two weeks prior he mentioned he’d ‘met someone he respects and wants to settle down with’ and that ‘he never does anything with his behaviour’. I truly believe they must have a small fear that they are no longer in control of all of their ‘options’. pfft pathetic. As NML said one persons AC is another persons AC and truly being ‘involved’ with people when it’s all about themselves and their ego is the most boring circus ride, don’t you agree? 🙂
Re: the incentive to change is this: how you do things doesn’t work. It doesn’t.
Accepting this truth (without beating ourselves up about it) is the only way forward. I think many of us must have tried the so called army system – if it doesn’t work, do it twice as hard – for long enough. Time to realize that, outrageous as it may at first sound, we get the relationships we want. Understanding how that can be so by reading these posts has been invaluable to me, although it can be a bitter pill to swallow.
I want to share a little quiz that can be food for thought, but do this quickly and don’t over think it.
Just think of your three favorite animals (in order) right now, you’ll know what they are. This isn’t some animal spirit stuff so don’t try to work it out.
Everyday, scary, predictable, whatever just say them right now and don’t change them. Sorry if this is tedious for the people who know what it’s about. I’m submitting this and adding another comment later to explain it so that you don’t adjust your little list. Ok, mine were 1. Leopard – just because, 2. Meerkat – what’s not to like and 3. Dog – because they really are the best mate you’ll ever have.
Favourite animal quiz part 2. This is not supposed to be deep and meaningful (although it did make me thoughtful and a little uncomfortable), this is how it goes: no.1 is what you really are like, 2 is how you see yourself and 3 is how other people see you.
So that means I may be (leopard) solitary with no knowledge or expectation of ‘mutually beneficial’ interaction, whilst seeing myself (meerkat) as sociable, involved and looking after others, but being perceived (dog) as eager to please, trusting and so on …you get the picture. Yes, it’s a bit mad and supposed to be funny but ..well, you try it.
Anyhow, just wanted to say again that these posts and comments have saved my sanity, and to echo something Grace said – you can’t pay for this stuff, and I also wish someone had spoken to me like this years ago. But better late than never, when the time is right the teacher appears etc etc.
Seasons greetings.
This website has helped me grow up, counsel me, comfort me and assist me in understanding the wealth of complicated (and not so complicated) emotions and situations that life throws my way. Thank you Natalie. X
I have changed. I have absolutely changed and I want to post this to show and prove again that it is possible and it’s possible for one more woman like us.
Three and a half years ago I realized my pattern and left a man who I had loved for seven years because I couldn’t take the stress and constant fear anymore. My body got sick from it. I was miserable. The sometime happiness didn’t make up for the constant underlying fear in me, the real knowledge that at any moment he could leave me. I couldn’t take it anymore. I couldn’t take him back again. I realized, as most women here have, that I wasn’t with the man in spite of the fact that he would not make any commitment to me, but actually because of it. Although this may have been obvious to others, to me this was a profound revelation. I did not know myself until that moment. This changed me.
I can never be this person again who will put up with “less thans”. Less than what I hope for, feeling less than worthy, less than his ex, having less than what I deserve, being less than sure when I would see him again and for how long.
I proved this unfortunately by falling in love again and then finding out from this new man that he would not be faithful. My whole body, mind and spirit wanted to run from him immediately. I felt like I was in a horror film and just found out that I was dating the devil. I couldn’t get away from him fast enough. I felt horror and fear. I did not feel an urge to persuade him! No urge to talk him round existed, no urge to try at least to have an open relationship and do things his way. No urge to enjoy him for as long as I could. Just fear. Run, go, leave. My instincts have changed! My mind has changed. My beliefs have changed. Anyone who says anything that reminds me of my ex fills me with fear now and everything in me screams to get out.
Later I did miss him and cry, and had to almost chew my arm off not to call him and it was horribly hard not to be with him for at least two months. But my initial instincts were not to do anything I could to persuade him or to try to change myself to be with him. This is a huge deep shift that has happened. Other feelings of love and attachment came up and were strong but that fear was and is stronger.
Unfortunately this also means that I still fall for and attract EUMs so I think I’m in some half way limbo between…
Intotouch, it sounds as though you are well along a path of growth and giving yourself a better break. Thanks for sharing your courageous story.
Thanks for the blog Natalie. I’ve only just discovered this site and have been reading the posts for the last 2 weeks and it is really helping me.
I have been trying to change – NC for 6 weeks now.
I’ve been stuck and beating myself up over how I handled an ex who came back to say that ‘the door is open for getting back together’… then led me on for 3 months and ended when I backed him into a corner and he said’ I don’t want to be a couple. I though it was a good idea but I don’t now. When I was away on the weekend, I thought that it would be nice to have you there but I should really, really want you to be there with you.’
I put up with endless conversations and a lot of bad behaviour. All v humiliating stuff.
The background is that I hurt him v badly 2 years ago when I was in EU mode. I went behind his back in a moment of crisis ( deep depression over being made redundant, freakout about turning 40 at the time, starting a family and never being able to go back to my home country 15,000 miles away) and organised to meet up with an old flame and kissed him . It was a big mistake and I realised that I wanted to settle down with my bf. He found out about it by going through and reading my emails that I left open on his laptop a few weeks later,couldn’t get over it and broke up with me. The emails were v flirty and cheeky and read a lot worse than what happened in reality.
We remained in contact and I spent a lot of time trying to make up for what I did and trying to make him want to get back together with me.
So fast forward 2 years and I got the call – the call that I had been really wanting.
In hindsight , he was having his own turning 40 crisis and I was clearly his fallback girl. He asked me if I would ‘in theory’ move from the UK to Ireland with him and there were a number of hoops that I would have to jump through if we were going to get back together. I jumped through all of them but it still wasn’t enough. I then gave him ‘time ‘ on our non existent relationship to sort himself out and in his mind, it was – we get back to together , get married and start trying for a family or nothing .
So he chose nothing … after putting me through hell first.
I let this happen – I let him walk all over me.
I am now working out how to let it go and the fact that I probably won’t have a family now as I wasted so…
Lou
Oh dear. I was always going back to EU relationships too. I don’t recommend it. Sometimes/Usually it doesn’t matter how sorry you are or he is, it can’t be undone and it’s better for everyone concerned to take the learning to a new relationship. I’m also not a great advocate of remaining in contact. If you’re 110% sure it’s not stopping you from moving on, then I guess it’s okay. Maybe.
My sister got accidentally pregnant in her mid-40s. It can happen.
Many women have been unable to have children, some go through menopause in their teens, some have infertility problems, some just miss the boat.
I will say something contentious – I think if a woman REALLY wants children, rather than it being “a nice idea” she will make it happen. I don’t think it helps to lay the blame at the man’s door or on a particular relationship. Either just get pregnant, get sperm from somewhere, stop dealing in crap relationships, or go all out to find a good man.
I don’t have children and sometimes I think it a bit sad. But I didn’t want children when I had the chance. The way my life has been developing, I may emotionally feel ready when I’m in my 50s, talk about being a late developer! So, it won’t happen for me.
You don’t know what life will bring you. Maybe you can adopt, foster, be a stepmother, work with children.
I have five nieces so feel content that I have children in my life. Maybe there are children in your family you can enjoy?
Lou, stay proud of the fact you set out what you wanted, gave him option to be with you in the way forward…he bailed at the end, you were honest. I did this too and had similar reaction.
Re kids..is this the most important thing for you? If it is, do it.
I’m a Mum, was single Mum for a long time,lost another child, also brought up a nephew much of his teenage years. I needed that in my life and as far as it goes it’s my life’s success story.
As a woman who also jumped through hoops, in my experience, this ability is never enough. The skill set required just gets higher. Its being used to manage your relationship. On their terms.
See yourself as apart from him. Do you want a child, is that feasible, emotionally,practically, do you think about that every day? If the answer is yes then make it happen..
I have a 21 year old son,lost a baby a little girl who would have been eight,have a twenty five year old nephew, they have enriched me and show daily that the scars of my childhood stopped with me.
I don’t say that like some Dickensian tale of woe and suffering but just that I managed, for the most part to bring up balanced,creative, curious offspring..with ongoing reciprocal love and respect. In this life,for me,it doesn’t get better.
There are plenty of children already here that can use your time and attention . Yes, it’s not the same, but they need care and attention that you could provide in ways other than the traditional methods ( which have failed many children already). Many of us here are proof of less than stellar parenting…I chose not to have children and we certainly don’t have a shortage of people… also, be aware that frequently surgery to enhance fertility actually creates scarring and that is detrimental to the entire idea; isn’t that crazy? Many women don’t seem to realise it though, and their physicians don’t seem to be in a hurry to explain such things. You loved. You have more love to give. Take care.
Wow, I’m a firm believer change is possible after today. I saw the effects of what living an authentic life treating yourself and your partner with love, respect, and care really could be like. I attended the funeral services for the young husband of a dear young colleague. I’ve always adored her. Her Phd is in the Psychology of Happiness and she embodies the truest form of eudaimonic “happiness”, although I know eudaimonia is not properly translated as “happiness”. The circumstances surrounding his death are tragic and he leaves behind a lovely wife of 23 years and two adorable little daughters. I was dreading today for the obvious reasons, including the fact it triggered memories of the funeral of the exMM’s young son. It didn’t help that the church where the services were held today was on a street that had his last name. I just about turned around and went home. I’m so glad I didn’t. Natalie, I saw the type of life you have described, filled with love, respect and trust. I wish I had transcripts of how my friend described her husband and how his family and friends described him. It was everything you have written about. It is possible. I wish you all could have been there today. Seeing the stark contrast between twisting myself into a pretzel to be loved and seeing what could be like to simply be loved and be treated with respect was…no words can describe…other than your words: “I’m not sure where I’m going to end up, but I know where the frick I’ve been, and not treating me with love, care, trust, and respect is no longer an option.” My friend has tremendous support from 100’s of friends and family and we’ll all be there for her. She was NEVER an option for anybody and it shows. She has this inner spirit of self-love and it shows. Thank you Natalie for helping me see that I can make galvanizing life changes. There is hope.
Thanks for sharing this RU, even if it was painful. I feel this sense of possibility, in small ways, when I see my brothers with their wives. The wives too each display self-love and a lightness about their marriages.
Nat,
I had a conversation about this very thing with my friend today, she mentioned that although I had done a lot of work, not dated for two years, for a time out, that I am always going to be attracted to the same kind of men. That we don’t change, we just become better informed, tolerate less.
I respectfully disagreed, and said, that since I had twisted my values to be with someone in the past, I knew was capable of change, and that I had just done it for the wrong reasons. I told her I refused to believe I would only be attracted to boys who need a mama, a therapist, or a doormat, or a talking sex toy. I think she was a little suprised by my conviction 🙂
I already know that I am repulsed by them now. I am so looking forward to meeting a men with integrity! I know it will happen, I ‘m just working a few more things out. Thanks so much for the post, it really helped me today.
Jasmine
Good one, Jasmine. Don’t take on her views. They are narrow, deflated and unhelpful, no matter her intention. I went to a wedding yesterday – a very low-key picnic-style wedding, and I was all ‘yeeessssssssssssssssssssss’ inside. My friend, who’s been with a string of guys who were no good for her (from married ones to addicts to meanies), is now married to a great guy – funny, smart, adoring and honest to a fault. It’s wonderful, and shows real, radical change from my friend.
Elle,
That’s fantastic. I also enjoy being around healthy couples, seeing how men treat their wives with love and respect. It makes it easier to look back and see that my past relationships don’t even come close. I mean it hurt at the time, but what I was mourning wasn’t healthy, wasn’t meaningful. So superficial, and it wasn’t just their fault… I didn’t know how to be healthy either.
I know my friend meant well, I think it comes from her struggles in her current relationship. I asked her that if she were single again, would certain habits that her partner has now (and is causing conflict in the relationship) be red flags for her? She said that she believed that she would always be attracted to the same guy, and that she found stable men boring, she couldn’t help it. She is going to therapy though, so she may not always feel that way. We all follow or own paths. Thanks for the support Elle 🙂
I am finding it very difficult to believe it possible for me to change. I have gone NC with the MM but am just left with my own self which feels broken.
I did it face to face with him because I needed to make it real – no more emails – so that I would feel it has really happened and not go back. He has promised not to contact me, and I don’t think he will. He did not like the reality and suggested we discuss through email. Without the distraction of his contacts and arrangements, new insights come to me from time to time that show me how empty it all was. I dreamed last night that he came to visit and kissed me and said he was sorry. (that will most definitely never ever happen). For his coldness, lying and the indifference with which he let me go. What was interesting in the dream was thaty father was there too and had to give up his bed for the MM to sleep in. my father was an alcoholic who abandoned us and emigrated when I was young. I guess what I was looking for was someone to look after me (MM is the same age as me but very competent and successful) and the change I have to make is to look after myself better. I am very sad today.
You’ve already changed, and therefore it is possible. You’ve already broken things off, in a way that is honest and dignified, for good reasons, because, on some level, you DO love yourself and want something better for yourself than what you got as a child. You’re facing the right direction, Clarissa.
I can relate to that sense of craving an impressive, successful man. I think us women are compelled by that more than men, on the whole. But they mean nothing without the guy also having (a) a healthy mind; (b) an open and unattached heart; and (c) good character.
Keep on going in this direction. Feel sad, but keep fighting for yourself – not in a mad struggle way, but with the stoic, warm-handed compassion of a 1950s hospital matron.
Elle,
Thankyou – that is kind of you – I do realise that for many people I deserve a slap, not sympathy for having gotten mixed up in this. Although lies were told (that the marriage was loveless, sexless and that he intended to leave, all untrue as it turned out).
The thing I have to remind myslef of it that the writing was on the wall, I don’t even think there was any potential to bet on. The longer it went on, the more damaging it would have been to me. He made me feel so inferior so much of the time – subtly patronising, boastful, (once or twice he over-egged the pudding so much that he actually made me laugh).
I guess his wife wasn’t too admiring any more.
I will imagine your 50’s matron wagging her finger and admonishing me to get up out of that puddle of self pity, wrap the christmas presents, clean the house, anything, but don’t. speak. to. that. arse.
Hi Clarrissa,
No slapps, just change. If you read the OW’s comments throughout this blog, we all got the same sad, stupid line: “that the marriage was loveless, sexless and that he intended to leave, all untrue as it turned out”. The hardest thing to come to grips with is that there was no potential to bet on. He was burning the candle at both ends. In my case, the sad sorry sack was getting a home cooked meal with me, a bottle of wine by the fire with me, and a shag with me, and then going to church with his wife in the morning. Worse, he saw nothing wrong with that picture. As he explained it, “it’s what I do”. It’s been the hardest lesson I’ve ever had to learn. Don’t go there: ” I guess his wife wasn’t too admiring any more”. His wife could be cooking dinner, lighting candles, and having amazing sex with him. What are the chances a MM will tell the OW how wonderful their wife is and what great sex they had last night? Just wondering? Just saying?
Runnergirl, I did once ask him if he felt guilty. He seemed to find that an amazing question. Of course he didn’t! But as for me, today I am having a very bad attack of embarrassment and remorse. I was reading a lot on the surviving infidelity website. There is a thread on there about how MM always “affair down” to a woman who is inferior to their wife. I am not reading any more of it now as it just makes me miserable and is not particularly helpful, but I am finding it really hard to imagine how I can move on in a positive way from this. Wallowing in shame and regret is not constructive.
Hi Clarissa, I felt I should respond as what you’ve read is a very painful, horrible thing to read and you need to ensure that you get past the whole wallowing thing.
Here’s the thing – While in some circumstances, it’s an ‘obvious’ affair down, I think that as a result of participating in the affair, OWs shoot themselves in the foot. I say this from personal experience. Hard as it may be to hear, if you’ve flirted, made your interest known, hung around when you knew they were attached, asked them to leave, put up with all of their shenanigans, you’ve sent the *wrong* messages about yourself. They are conflicting messages with who you really are.
This means that he may still believe that you are beautiful, intelligent, great fun, business savvy, great chemistry, sex great and yada yada yada, but that if you’re pushing boundaries and busting your own boundaries and are already involved with him, he’ll also believe that you’re lacking in integrity, morals, etc, things that in the wrong context, suddenly make his wife/partner look like a saint. This is actually highly unfair.
Most OWs make an exception for this one particular man. He forgets this. This means that when you have lacked integrity, lost your moral compass, been disconnected from who you are, disloyal, secretive, and whatever else…, it’s been *for* this guy. The affair that he has you participating in, creates doubts about you.
What this tells you is never compromise your character for anyone, especially an attached, double standard-ing person.
It’s also important not to be surprised by information you have always had at hand – you always knew he was married just like I always knew that my ex had a girlfriend. There’s no point in feeling embarrassed and remorseful about it now – this info is old news to you. The only point of feeling it now is if you’re done – but just use the recognition of her presence, to close the door firmly on it.
You are not ‘inferior’ to his wife but an affair is an inferior situation by the very nature of it.
Also, and I say this as someone who has been cheated on – it’s easy to call the OW inferior because they’re rightfully hurt. Whatever makes them feel better but it doesn’t make it true. You are not the first person to make a mad bad judgement and decision out of ‘love’ – hell, these people are still attached to these cheaters!
Thanks NML. Yes I did know it, but chose not to think about it, particularly with what he had told me and the fact that he himself did not feel guilty. It did make horrible reading. One week in NC.
clarissia, you have now learned, brush yourself off, don’t do it again, go forward and follow Nat’s advice for dating: no attached men, date with self-esteem in tow, etc…sometimes the only way we understand something is to experience it…so what if he is okay with it…obviously he had to be to be cheating…you on the other hand woke-up…now go forward and take the learning with you. Be firm and uphold your values (and if you don’t know what they are investigate until you do!)
OMG I have said this to you before Natalie, but you have followed my thoughts and make that difference to my life time and time again. As you know I’m back in Australia trialing life here out again. Have started dating and met loads of new guys, but somehow not able to be myself with them. I feel myself thinking ‘yeah, he’s ok, give him a chance’ when in actual fact there are red flags, or he’s just not that interested (and I’m doing the old ‘well he’s not all that, how can he not want me!??’) After a few of these type of dates I started to doubt myself again thinking I am just so hopeless with men, I will never meet anyone, maybe I’m destined to be alone and not even bother trying… cried myself to sleep the other night type of behaviour. Your post actually brought a tear to my eye as I know that my problem still lies with me, not having enough confidence that I can change. That I am responsible for my own thoughts, and that it is possible to be happy with myself and the rest may naturally follow. I am hoping to give myself a bit of a break and believe that I’m worthy and trust my instincts and trust in myself. Thanks again Natalie for helping guide me to believe in myself!
love love love this website!!!!!
i NEED to change… rapidly! but its so hard! i love coming on here and listening to everyone elses perspectives it really inspires me :):):)
ps i think Nat should make some sort of chat room on this site 🙂 xx
I get it all now *slaps forehead*. In all honesty I was the female equivalent of an assclown and a poster girl for emotionally unavailable women. Possibly not by choice, but more than likely I did not know what a healthy relationship was because I did not have good role models. I don’t believe the majority of men or women choose to be an AC, it’s just that they don’t know any better. I think my subconscious has been going medieval on me during my sleep over the past three nights and as a result, I’ve had more epiphanies about myself over the past two days than in an entire year. I left an untenable situation a month ago and after I rationalised someone else’s behaviour towards me I vowed to read up on their truths about me. I’ve spent the past week reading books on conflict resolution, interpersonal communication, boundaries, confidence, listening and reflection. I changed. I must have integrated the BR learnings with what I was reading. The clue phone rang and this time I answered. So here I am… I have (hopefully had) a fear of intimacy and being vulnerable, that’s what has contributed to major conflicts.
Even if I caused a minor upset or a major conflict I didn’t have the skills to work through it and I was too scared to admit to another person how I really felt and truly share my feelings and fears. I’ve had to learn the hard way that if trust is demonstrated through another person doing what they say they will do and when you open up and share yourself and they walk…it’s not you, it’s them and I’m not to take it personally.
Natalie, you brought up some good points. I hope I understand your message correctly – don’t change to please someone else or do anything that makes you uncomfortable and comprimises your integrity. But to understand that, you have to know what motivates you to act in the way that you do and why. When things go pear shaped it’s easy to apportion all the blame to either someone else or yourself, it’s harder to look at how two people contributed to the meltdown. EUM and EUW = ?
I can admit to myself that I didn’t want to be in a normal relationship, let aIone a committed relationship because commitment=c word and quite frankly that word and what it meant to me as well as the thought of being accountable used scare me. I can’t believe the level of my own denial and how long it took for this to sink in on a *soul level*. I’ve acted like a mini tornado – destructive. Engagement nah (in hindsight that might help explain why an ex gave himself a hall pass for the last five months of a four and a half year relationship) or would you accept a ring after five years of being together? Nah I ran away two weeks after that left an exe’s mouth. I’m ashamed to admit it but ambiguity, blowing hot and cold, acting up so some people would get the hint etc was the norm. I’ve acted like an absolute twit.
I’ve only just joined the dots – understanding the interconnectedness of self confidence, vulnerability and interpersonal communication – three former seemingly insurmountable stumbling blocks. I don’t know if this revelation might help anyone wrap their head around what their AC nightmare might be struggling with, but I hope it might give some food for thought.
I say this with love but hopefully this will be the last time I visit BR. I wish this site was on my radar years ago.
Peace and blessings to all you lovely ladies. Have a merry xmas and a joyful and memorable new year.
ACs can change but only if the AC is ready to change and if they really want to be honest with themselves. This former EUW knows she is ready to be in a healthy, loving relationship built on strong foundations and I won’t push people away.
Buffy, Now that you are aware, why turn away from the site that offers you so much? IMO awareness is the first step to change and at least for me, this site continues to show and teach, and although I have learned so much, there is still a lot of work to do. I think you would be doing yourself a service to continue “visiting” if not participating as you go on with your journey. This site offers continuous support. You don’t have to go it alone. What I have found is that we continuously are tested to verify learning and we can slip up. This is a site that will continue to support many stages and only enhance and reinforce what we learn. Whatever you choose: fly well!
I really needed to hear this because I am at a place in my life where I no longer trust my choices. I would rather be alone than to make the same unealthy choice over again and again
kathy
I’ve been going through the “rather be single for the rest of my life phase”. I still WOULD rather be single for the rest of my life than be in a bad relationship but it feels more like a choice than something that has been inflicted on me by external factors.
Ironically, now that I’ve reached the point where I am really genuinely happily single, seemingly decent men are showing an interest in me. It’s weird. There’s no charm, or flattery, or boundary busting or any of that yucky stuff. It feels genuine and different to my previous EU days. And they are single. Yay. This is major major change. I don’t know what will come of it, I’m just enjoying life. This is my first winter without the winter blues. Amazing.
So, I hope it doesn’t sound like a threat, you could still meet someone!
Totally on board Grace. For the first time ever in my life at 52, I’m discovering being single. Being single is no longer an infliction. It’s kinda fun, kinda wierd, kinda me. My daughter (22) flew in from the East Coast last night and left this morning for Japan for Xmas. She was a bit conflicted because she wouldn’t be “home” for Xmas. I told her, it’s time to fly sweetie. Your mom and your dad will be fine. Fly. We want you to fly and experience the world. She’s off to Japan. I miss her. She’s doing what 20-somethings should be doing, exeperiencing the world. I miss her more than I miss him, wahoo!
Thanks Grace and Lynda
You are right, I should be proud that that I set my stall out and was honest about what I wanted. That is a positive way of thinking about it.
I too was a poster girl for EUW but have spent a lot of time working on my EU issues and trying to understand what happened and why I acted the way I did. It can’t be undone and I have to stop dwelling on the past.
The hoops were a way to control the situation on his terms – even though he came back to me. I spent weeks beat myself up over what ‘I couldda, shoulda, outta said’ and if only I did this or that etc. I clung on like some kind of limpet while he hedged his bets and said that he ‘didn’t have an overwhelming sense that marrying me was the right thing to do’.
Kids are important to me – I didn’t realise how much until too late with him. I have taken action recently and looking into going it alone if it is still possible – I don’t want to regret not trying further down the line.
Hello all, I’ve loved reading all these posts. I think the article is so pertinent and Nat’s line ” If you have twisted, contorted, bent, back flipped, and basically become a ‘Transformer robot in disguise for your relationships ” described me absolutely. My pinnacle awful relationship with a MM, future faker, liar, charmer, abuser, seducer, harem-gatherer, which left me so twisted, broken up and damaged had all the unhealthy elements that many readers describe on here. Self-help books, reading this blog for 2 years and a powerful personal consultation with Nat, endless analysis with good women friends, all fueled my recovery from these dreadfully damaging relationship patterns.
Now I have changed for the better and can indentify with so much of what the folk here write, the good and the bad stuff. Its so positive to see how many of us have and do see the light and continue to change our relating habits for the better. I find that now I’ve sorted myself out (with some way to go too) and have a fabulous man in my life to show for it, I have transferred my new positive attitudes to all my relationships with family, friends, acquaintances, colleagues etc. I now manage to politely distance myself from unhealthy people with growing ability, ease and swiftness (and no drama). It does take time to undo the unhealthy patterns because we have normalised them; distortion and pain becomes a ‘comfort zone’ to reside in. However, once we’ve done the main work it transfers into all areas of life, maybe we could call it the Snowball Effect 🙂 I now see how healthy relating habits attract positive and good people into my life which becomes a bubble of good energy to be in and bounce off. There is no going backwards once the good ball is rolling.
I still continue to log on here and read all the articles and blogs. I imagine over time that’ll become less and less of a need of mine. Theres a part of me that must still need the resaurrance and ideas that I’ve always taken from the good, wise and wonderful women on here.
Thank you all and I wish you all good tidings and good energy over the festive season. Dont ever give up striving for happiness and good energy in your lives, the only way is the NatWay (my mantra) ………..
X Kim X
I just had to Thank youGrace for your comment. It made such sense to me, and at the end, I laughed for the first time in 3 weeks, thank you
katy
you’re welcome. Just knocking him off his pedestal for you.
Don’t go to the swingers party. I had a similar such invitation from the playa (by text people!). My first thought was “that’s disgusting” and the second was “you really don’t think much of me”. He didn’t think much of women as a whole, strange given his constant pursuit of women but that’s not my problem anymore
I guess there are women who are into swinging but – not as many as think they are! Plenty, I’m sure, are pressurised into it by men, subtly or otherwise. Hold onto who you are and what you believe in. It’s not that you have to change who you are – ditch the bad relationship habits and you’ll naturally become more your true self.
You are trying to change yourself, because you are aware of your own faults, while you are trying to help them to change theirs and to become what you think they can be. Meanwhile you silence your gut, that screams warnings about something being very off and blame yourself for being control freak and possibly needy. You believe that everything they say is truth and blame yourself for not seeing it in real life. You doubt yourself. What a bad person you have to be not to see all that effort they are talking about and putting in. You explain, beg for hug, for attention and try to explain, that you just want same thing they enjoy from you so much. They said, that you are the One after all and that no previous relationship gets even close to ours. So why is hug or compliment such a big deal and problem to get?!
Then you get so tired and lonely and unhappy, that you leave. In week you are speeding back, because you love them, miss them and your mind made you believe, that if you try harder and work on yourself, then they will become that potential you see in them. Because you are the one holding their change back from happening by your own misbehavior. They tell you, that they forgive you, drop guy who is already there and take you back. They tell you, that you are lucky for having such a forgiving and loving person.
So you feel more and more off. Like in some strange foreign land, where your well intended actions seem bad and their bad behavior is explainable and right. Suddenly you look in the mirror one day and see more and more them instead of yourself. Emotionally distant, cold person. You leave again and come back again, which by their opinion makes you evil and unstable. You agree.
Then they leave with ex who was always around as just a friend. Reason is, that you are critical, never happy with them and in/out kind of person with commitment issues. They tell you, that they love you, but don’t see the future with you. They say, that your relationship was lacking communication and connection. And you are standing there not understanding what the hell just happened. Coulda, woulda, shoulda kicks in and you are going crazy by trying to see, where you went wrong and wrong them. It is very hard, when you doubt everything you did. Your very core seems just plain bad. Even things, that seem by logic good and kind suddenly look as a not enough or straight bad.
Cherry on the top of the cake is feeling, that YOU did destroy by your issues another relationship and you hope, that they may come back and give you another chance to prove yourself to them. This time you will do better. You promise… You see craziness of all this, but what if you are just trying to make excuses for yourself?
Dance of destruction…so horrid what our own minds can do…hope you are better now and out of the mind-f7kery. Been there myself. You described it so well. Madness incarnate.
‘In week you are speeding back, because you love them, miss them and your mind made you believe, that if you try harder and work on yourself, then they will become that potential you see in them. Because you are the one holding their change back from happening by your own misbehavior.’
nibos, tears are streaming down my face right now. I’ve been really struggling tonight, and this post is exactly what I’m experiencing. I feel like a complete crazy person with all these raging thoughts. Thanks for helping me realize that I’m not alone in this experience. I have to fight my way out of this distorted way of thinking.
Thank you so much.
There is that weird self-blame involved. Everything that makes sense and shows us how wrong they were is pushed back by fear, that we are just making excuses for ourself and are unjust to them. That is just sick, but so hard to fight. Twisted sense of justice, where we make ourself a ultimate evil that almost deserves all this.
I am so pushing through this. It is process. Like quitting a drug. Every try gets easier. Be strong. Logic and reason will take over eventually…
Oh, I have been there and you described it so well. It took nearly a year, this website and all of my willpower to start crawling out of that dark place. His number is listed under ” Headfucker” on my phone, because he still tries to press the reset button. I would tell him that, but not breaking NC.
I have a long way to go still, but if I got where I am right now, so will you. Believe it. Natalie, and all you who post here helped me to believe in myself, you are my rock! Thank you from the bottom of my heart, and Happy Holidays x
Hi Natalie – Thank you for this post. I have been a dedicated reader of your blog for the last few months, following a triple whammy – turning 40, getting dumped by someone I was dating (who in hindsight I’m not sure I even liked!), and suffering a short-term illness that knocked me out for a month. It was because of your writings – and the comments of everyone here – that I got the strength to FINALLY do something about my low self-esteem and recognize that I not only can change, but that I must change. I started therapy, knowing it will be a long road, but the right road. I realize now that must take full responsibility for my happiness and stop the cycle of thinking “Oh, when I meet that great guy then I’ll be happy and my life can begin.”
Happy holidays to all.
Thank you for this important reminder. Unfortunately, for so many of us, especially women, it’s all too natural to roll ourselves out to be someone else’s red carpet. In detatching myself from my unavailable man/assclown, I’m also having to learn to become more self-reliant and develop self-trust. For my UM, and maybe it’s true of a lot of them, they seem like really attractive “protectors” or “providers” on the surface, but in reality, they’re unavailable and are the WORST people to rely on. I know that I need to learn to rely on myself, and maybe then I won’t even want these losers as much.
Merry Christmas to everyone who celebrate!!!!
Just purchased THE NO CONTACT RULE: I deifnitely need to read it! 🙂
Thanks so much for your extraordinary work.
Lara
I’ve been reading your posts for the past year, and this is probably among the best. You help a lot of us women who have had very little respect or real love in our relationships. Your writing has influenced my life profoundly. Thank you!