So we (finally) come to the final part in this five part series, where in parts one, two, three and four, I’ve explained how focusing on compatibility, type, and ‘common’ interests is pretty dangerous when you have poor relationship habits that are being driven by some unhealthy ideas about yourself, love, and relationships, and failure to look at the big picture and put all of these things into context.
In constantly chasing a ‘feeling’, we put up with some pretty crap behaviour from men in the name of feeling good for what ultimately ends up being for moments or brief periods of time. You get a taste of what you think is the good stuff and then you keep trying to get him to cook up the same recipe with you again so you can taste it and extend the high.
But really, even though you’ve had some times of feeling good, or even great, invariably, you more often than not, feel pretty awful and you spend your time trying to make yourself be compatible with someone else’s bullsh*t. This is in the hope that you’ll get that feeling, be validated, and get the relationship you want.
In chasing the feeling, even when a relationship ends, we then try to recapture it with our ‘type’, hoping that ‘this time’ things will be different. Be we end up with same man, different, dodgy package.
We then wonder why things are not working out or how we can possibly be expected to start something with someone else when we had so many things in common.
We look for common interests so that we can validate our reasons for staying invested, for trying to make ourselves compatible with them, and to keep pursuing the same type.
Clinging to compatibility, type, and common interests is about justifying why we are continuing with these men and trapped in inaction.
Yep, this is all about The Justifying Zone. As explained in my ebook, this is:
“….the slippery slope we go to when we sleep with a guy too soon or before we have really assimilated whether he is ideal relationship material and then we hang in there as a justification for sleeping with him in the first place.”
We claim common interests with men so that we can validate our decision to stay emotionally/sexually invested with them and to keep pursuing the relationship that we know ultimately, we’re not going to get.
At the end of the day, it really doesn’t mean anything if you claim to have a love of music, healthy living, sports, travelling, reading intellectual books, watching foreign films, cooking Asian French fusion food, no smoking, going to church, dressing up in rubber, dancing till the break of dawn, or whatever you think you have in common with him.
If you and your man do not share basic fundamentals that yield two people with both of their feet in the relationship that share the common interest of loving, caring about, respecting, and trusting one another, no matter how many ‘interests’ you claim to have in ‘common’, you don’t have things in common where it counts.
I am telling you right now that the interests that you place so much value in as a reason for being interested in him and sticking around, are overvalued.
In the meantime, you’re undervaluing the things that do count – values that give you a man with integrity that respects your boundaries, and wants to be a decent guy in a decent relationship.
These common interests are superficial and they don’t add any substance to your relationship because when it’s not working because some of the fundamentals are missing, your relationship doesn’t hold up well to scrutiny.
The worst thing is that many women lose themselves in men so they actually don’t genuinely know what their common interests are because they’ve spent so much time morphing and bending to men.
In trying to make ourselves compatible with the ‘types’ that we pursue, we’ve adapted to suit in the hope that this one guy would finally accept us and validate us. There we are thinking we’re made because he makes us feel excited and he runs marathons, and he likes talking about politics, yet he’s resisting being with us.
Men who are genuinely interested in you and forging a relationship don’t burn up the bulk of their energy trying to resist you.
If he’s resisting you, it’s not because you have so much in common that it’s too hot for him to handle; it’s because whatever you do have in common, it’s not enough to keep him there.
It may appear that he’s playing hard to get but he may not be trying to be caught.
But there’s an even bigger, scarier thing about common interests:
What you think you both have in common, may not actually be the common interest between you both.
A lot of the whole compatibility, type, and common interests issue is ‘assumed’ and ‘projected.
We decide we have a lot in common with these guys and we overvalue it, but the fact that the relationship does not work out shows that they don’t value these commonalities. Often, many women discover that the common interests that they thought were so important to the relationship and made them so compatible with the guy in question, weren’t actually important to him.
Often these men value different things so your common ground that you think you both share is not actually his common ground, so you’re standing alone.
You’re also standing alone because in projecting your idea of him and what he could be, and your ideas about the commonalities you share, you neglect to examine the actual commonalities that you don’t share.
Yes, we’re back to illusions, stepping back into reality, and looking at the bigger picture and going beyond the ‘moments’ and the bits of him that you like.
You struggling with him to get him to be the man you want or to give you the relationship you want is about trying to get him on the same common ground as you which means you really can’t have that much in common.
He’s just not got that much in common with you, and even if he does, it’s not enough of what matters.
As I said on my post last year on common interests, it’s not up to you to decide what you both have in common because for a start, you shouldn’t have to force the issue and if what you had in common was good for the relationship, it wouldn’t be floundering.
What people who are in poor relationships have in common is fears, inaction, overvaluing the wrong things, undervaluing the important things, and beliefs about themselves, love, and relationships that impact negatively on our personal happiness and success in relationships.
You’d be amazed how when you address what’s been driving your relationship patterns and opt out of the misery and inaction, you discover that you don’t have very much in common any longer with Mr Unavailables and assclowns.
I actually bumped into a reader a few days ago who had got in touch with me in her darkest moments with an assclown Mr Unavailable who she’d thought was her type, had tried to be compatible with, and thought they had a lot in common. Months later, she’s happy, has got back her figure after being skeletal, and dropped him and cut him out of her life. In hindsight she recognises that the man drove her mad and to despair and she had nothing in common at all with him. She’s moved on with someone else who is very different, who shares some interests, but more importantly treats her really well and has never given her reason to hate herself and her life.
At the end of the day, if loving a man means you can’t love you and you have to find ridiculous commonalities to give you a reason to stick around, it’s not worth it because you’ll lose yourself and most of us discover in time that we’re not compatible with pretending that this is as good as it gets. Oh we have a damn good go at trying but life rapidly becomes a tedious battle of pain, disillusionment, disappointment, and despair as we try to reconcile the illusion with the reality…and fail, not because we’re failures but because we spend too much time trying to put the proverbial square peg into a round hole.
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*applause* Beautiful. Just beautiful.
“….the slippery slope we go to when we sleep with a guy too soon or before we have really assimilated whether he is ideal relationship material and then we hang in there as a justification for sleeping with him in the first place.â€
It hurts to read this paragraph because i can relate. But I absolutely love the last 2 paragraphs, it gives me hope that things in time will get better =)
“Men who are genuinely interested in you and forging a relationship don’t burn up the bulk of their energy trying to resist you.”
How I can relate to that.I always felt that my ex just wanted to run away from me all the time and I was there trying to make him stay.How tiring it is to keep doing that over and over again.Relationships for me was a huge amount of hard work and I felt I had praticaly to force people for the smallest things like just be there or reciprocate.I dont want to do that anymore,I just want it to just happens naturaly and without all huge amount of effort like I think relationships suposed to be.
NML, a tremendous finale to the series. Thanks for setting it out clearly and in no uncertain terms where we go wrong and where we can set the boundaries. Thank you for being a stand for great relationships in the world! x
There’s something interesting about the whole “compatibility” or “type” scenerio from the last 5 parts. One quote from above that bothers me is as follows….. “”She’s moved on with someone else who is very different, who shares some interests, but more importantly treats her really well and has never given her reason to hate herself and her life””
It’s interesting because now I feel like the AC in reverse. I met a man that had my interest in the beginning but then he started texting all the time, wanting to call all the time, always concerned about something he may have said wrong…worried about how I feel, have I told my family about him, etc. In my quest for losing the AC, it appears I’ve become one….
I like him but he’s just so needy to me…I don’t feel any attraction (and trust me, I don’t expect rockets to explode or the 4th of July). I was attracted to him at first and had an open mind about getting close. I was upfront about not wanting a man that moves to quickly and I just wanted to spend time together….getting to know each other…slowly. But he was just so overly attentive and all too willing to morph into whatever I wanted. I have to say, I could really stand to get to know the real person but he’s become overly conscious of every move, word or action. Now I feel I can’t spend anymore time with him because he wants too much too soon and I’m suddenly feeling responsible for his happiness (or unhappiness).
Yikes ladies….what did I do wrong???? Is there something severly wrong with me? Isn’t this what I wanted from the AC??
I want an equal. Not someone who is puddy in my hands. I can’t seem to find an even balance to relationships now (unlike the woman mentioned in this article). I don’t mind losing the a**clown but I sure as hell don’t want to become one.
@metsgirl – “Yikes ladies….what did I do wrong???? Is there something severly wrong with me? Isn’t this what I wanted from the AC??”
Woah Hun, look how quickly you go to, “What did I do wrong?” And, “Is there something wrong with me?” This is just ONE guy. He’s a little too forward with you – maybe it’s your eum/ac radar going off – you know how they can be in the beginning. Or maybe he IS too needy for you. Either way, you know you’re not liking it. If you have to end it, be kind and tell him the truth…as you would like it told to you. And keep on keepin on…lookin for Mr. Right-For-You. 😉 If you want to give it more time – maybe he’ll relax a little – let him know that too.
Luv.
@Metsgirl – no perhaps there is another way to look at this – he’s co-dependent. Do YOU want to come across that way? That’s what I took from what you said about him to … do I come across that way? I don’t think I do, I am also too uppity (read EUW probably). Hmmm.
Thank you NML, great post!
I know that I dont have any common interests with my EUM, he is more like lover (I know him for 1 year and a half) not like a boyfriend.
I met him last Saturday, we had our fun, and he wanted to stay longer, and strangely enough, I started to feel uncomfortable…I wanted him to go and and be alone…. He even asked me, if I want him to stay…I said: “Its up to you”…HE was shocked…I am so used to his strange behaviour, so when he acts normally, I am getting confused and uncomfortable…HE was explaining to me, why he cannot commit properly, as he does not trust women, his ex tried to kill him…I believe him somehow…I love him so much, but I dont have a future with him, and I have to accept that!!!
“I want an equal. Not someone who is puddy in my hands. I can’t seem to find an even balance to relationships now (unlike the woman mentioned in this article). I don’t mind losing the a**clown but I sure as hell don’t want to become one.”
metgirl, you won’t be an AC just because you are not attracted to him, but you will be one if he is” getting serious” or is crazy about you, yadda yadda, at the same time you are certain you do not want to go furthur with him in a romantic relationship.
You will also be an AC if you decide this but chickenshittedly ( hey, just made that word up, :-))) anyway if you are certain you do not want to continue and you neglect to be considerate of his feelings, and neglect to kindly share the important info that you are not interested. You would be an AC if you were going hot and cold on him, but you do not say you are doing that. How well you can explain you are not interested in continuing, and how kindly you do it, is one of the big differences between AC’s and Emo available people.
Frankly though, I hear nothing AC about what you are saying, just that you are having a dawning realization that the guy is not secure enough for your taste and maybe you don’t feel a strong enough connection to even work with him to talk about that with him. No problem, thats what dating is all about. But be clear about how you feel, be considerate of his feelings as you tell him and you will not be an AC. AC’s do not communicate well and are more than a bit feeble in their emotional capabilities.
“I met a man that had my interest in the beginning but then he started texting all the time, wanting to call all the time, always concerned about something he may have said wrong…worried about how I feel, have I told my family about him, etc. In my quest for losing the AC, it appears I’ve become one….
I like him but he’s just so needy to me…I don’t feel any attraction”
That is where I get confused.We always say the problem is the EUM not us but that just shows that if we meet somebody that has the same behaviour that we used to show to our EUM we wont be atracted.So isnt a litle about us too? Not that it is all our fault,I do agree the way the EUM treat us isnt aceptable at all.But my point is that I think that sometimes we do behave in a non atractive way too dont you think?
metsgirl- I read somewhere that women like us that are atracted to EUM have some behaviours(being a people pleaser,not showing who we realy are,being desesperate for a relationship) that emotionaly avaliable guys can detect and that turn them off,and that draws in the emotionaly unavaliable.So the fact that you arent interested in this guy just shows you ARENT EU in my opinion,cause if you were you would be overwhelmed by all his atention and wanting to morph in what you want .The fact you arent atracted to “unhealthy behaviours”(like the ones that guy is displaying) just shows that you are becaming healthy.
@metsgirl-there IS a balance in relationship, but it’s hard to achieve when your own equilibrium is so off. No one wants to be smothered…it’s suffocating and reveals the neediness on his part. Don’t we all just want to be in relationship with someone who’s strong and knows himself, but makes room in his heart for a cherished companion? I don’t think that’s asking too much…I see it in healthy relationships all the time. His neediness will suck the life out of you and leave you feeling, as you say, responsible for his happiness, which you are NOT. If we take time (as a gift to ourselves) to figure out who we are, what we want and where we’re going, we can recognize and choose our relationships from a position of strength, not weakness. At least you know this doesn’t work for you!! Trust your gut, Girl!!!!
Thanks you guys…you really helped to put some things into perspective. I think I’m feeling a lot of guilt because family and friends seem to think I’m just not used to someone treating me nice and being attentive, etc (not their words verbatim but close). And I’m being told that he might appear clingy because he’s nervous.
Regardless, I feel like I can’t trust my own gut because others don’t seem to think his actions are a big deal and yet to me they are a big deal. That’s why when I read about the girl in this article, it seemed she transitioned quite nicely into a decent relationship. And here I am complaining about a nice man all because I’m just not feeling the “thing”…you know. It just made me wonder if I’m completely missing something here or maybe there’s something missing in me. I put so much clout on attraction with my exAC that I wonder if a good relationship is completely void of those strong feelings. I feel so lost and it makes no sense at all.
(“chickensh*ttedly” that’s pretty funny…i’ll have to remember that.) Thank you all for responding…I really needed to hear your cyber voices =) Big hugs!
I just wanted to TELL somebody. I can’t seem to talk about it with anyone IRL. They’re all either tired of it, think he’s an AC, or they know him. I miss my xeum/ac. I just do right now. It’s the last thing I’d want him to know – even though I want to tell him – I WISH I could be emotional with him. It’s probably not HIM I actually miss but my idea of him. But he’s been part of my life for two years – albeit a funky one. Ha ha. I wanted to be his girl. And I wanted to have his babies. But he didn’t want me. And he doesn’t miss me because he’s got someone else. I just feel so lonely right now. I guess it’s because I’ve been in relationships pretty solid for about 12 years. And this is the first time in a long time I’ve been alone. It’s just part of the grieving I guess. Maybe this is the grief/acceptance part. I guess I need to do it. But I’m sad. I’m so so sad.
Just needed to share/vent. Thank…somethin…for this site!
I love this post. It’s great!
“But really, even though you’ve had some times of feeling good, or even great, invariably, you more often than not, feel pretty awful and you spend your time trying to make yourself be compatible with someone else’s bullsh*t. This is in the hope that you’ll get that feeling, be validated, and get the relationship you want.” NML
I just ended a two and half year relationship with a Mr. Unavailable ass clown who (after I slept with him) made me feel terribly guilty about my professional, academic, athletic and social accomplishments. I did not have a problem with the the fact that he had not “acomplished” as much as I did, I had a problem with his attitude about my desire to succeed and his lack of desire to try new things, take advantage of opportunities and sit around complain about global conspiracy’s As a result, I felt as if I had to lower my standards to feel compatible with him and be sure he did not feel uncomfortable if I wanted to go to listen to classical music rather than classic rock, both which I enjoy greatly. I could not even mention Mozart in fear he would feel inadequate. I always participated in the activities he enjoyed. Where was his effort in understanding my passions?
Since the end of our relationship I have have been listening to all the classical music I want, & I have been going to museums to revisit my favorite paintings, sculptures installations and have discovered new ones!
Sitting here, listening to one of Bach’s String Quartet, I can’t believe I let my Mr. Unavailable ass clown influence me to hide away a part of me that makes me feel so alive. Never again. I can’t believe I neglected my passion just to get a few miserable crumbs from him, thinking it would make him feel better if I neglected my self from the things that made me happy. Amid the No Contact blues, when I get down and miss him or the urge to call him, i just play some of my favorite music and open a book about a favorite artist or painter. I remind myself, that my passions are valuable enough to share with a person who will not only appreciate them, but more importantly, allow me to enjoy them without feeling guilty or without feeling incompatible. All of this for a little validation? Not worth it!
“He’s just not got that much in common with you, and even if he does, it’s not enough of what matters.” NML
“You’re also standing alone because in projecting your idea of him and what he could be”
I think a lot needs to be said about projecting, too.
It’s so easy to assume (project) that because he does/is ___ then he must be ___.
He’s a musician, he must be sensitive
He likes to read, he must be intelligent.
He’s a teacher, he must be caring.
He rides a Harley, he must be a free spirit.
He says he’s religious, he must be a good person.
etc.
It’s funny that I thought the AC and I were so on the same page, sharing a hobby, sharing a creative passion, sharing a number of things. But scrape away the superficial and we’re polar opposites: I’m an open, loving person, he’s closed and admits to never loving anyone in his life.
@ Anusha “We always say the problem is the EUM not us”
No we don’t or rather the ones saying that WE are the problem are not heard, discounted or whatever – and that includes NML who says repeatedly that we have to change ourselves. I’m really happy for you Anusha seeing you taking this point on board cos I look back and see how often this fact was in my face forcefully and I didn’t see it (and still don’t at times).
@ TJ I like this! And my take (on the bits that make my light bulbs go) now read like this:
He’s a musician, he probably expects no strings sex and adoration from a harem and might well have addiction issues
He likes to read, he could be trying to impress me or just use books to hide behind when he wants leaving alone
He’s a teacher, he probably likes telling people what to do, likes adulation for his amazing mind and is impossibly stubborn and set in his ways
These are attributes I have exaggerated but they all apply to ME in some way or another not “him” (and I am not pinning “him” on any one of the people in my past).
Hugs to PJ … I am sad this morning too, because I realise that any contact with the ex but one is going to hurt and NC is impractical at the moment. The funny thing is I don’t miss them … either of them … I am just all out sad, and it is grief – the loss of 10 years of a life where I could have been anywhere and done anything instead of being there with someone who took away all my vitality (this guy even said once, as part of his devaluing “what happened to the girl who’d take on the world and win?” and my reply was “You did.” Shrugs).
I had a dream last night, in it was a huge deadly spider which would kill me and anyone close to me … the size of a cat it was and I knew I had to kill it first even though the idea made me want to cry. I got a broom and crushed it in it’s most vulnerable place and as I did it morphed into a cat (which I love) but in my dream I knew I had to keep on so I strangled a cat. I woke up feeling like something had broken inside me. It’s probably just part of the cycle because these men technically are both dead, the men I loved didn’t ever really exist.
This post is good but it’s the one without lightbulbs for me, where previously I was feeling confident. What the hell does that say about me?
I’ve not been to the gym for a week. I am going to go today.
Thanks NML for such a great post… since discovering this website recently it’s given me a lot of food for thought in relation to my relationship… I hate to admit it but this really resonated with me.
In the beginning I put his AC behaviour down to clinical depression, but after a while it became more and more clear that it wasn’t. Didn’t call when he said he would, in fact he hardly calls at all, seldom asks how I am and when I get upset at his behaviour he gets angry at me in return. Hardly pays attention to me anymore. I feel like I’m chasing him all the time and he’s just sticking around for convenience.
And it used to be so different… there was a time when he was crazy about me and it did show… he called, he said nice things, he paid attention.
I have a long history with this person… I had NC with him for a few years and then one day I just broke… and got myself into this mess.
Reading the posts here have given me alot of perspective… just hope that I can eventually find the strength to let it go once and for all… easy enough to read and say “this makes perfect sense” but when it comes to crunch time it’s still so difficult… sigh.
‘If you and your man do not share basic fundamentals that yield two people with both of their feet in the relationship that share the common interest of loving, caring about, respecting, and trusting one another, no matter how many ‘interests’ you claim to have in ‘common’, you don’t have things in common where it counts.’
Great post!!! I have copied this onto a post-it note so I read it many times a day. I know now I got caught up in ‘common interests’ and what things COULD be like – if the UEM ever stopped working insane hours and put some effort into the relationship…I had both feet in, he had his little toe…day 15 of NC and it is getting easier.
Thanks NML for yet another great post that has helped me see the light!
I have a question. Do you ladies find that your menstrual cycle makes things harder at times? I am now convinced, looking at the calendar, that this is a factor.
@ butterfly – no not at all.
@Butterfly — Yes! on the menstrual cycle. A few days before the monthly visit all the cravings intensify hugely — chocolate, pasta, assclowns … 🙂
I just wondered cos the last few days have been intense and … guess what … and it was the same last month … and it was the same when I broke NC and went back for more …
@PJ and Butterfly
Oh dear, we are all missing our exes today! Butterfly, you have quite a symbolic dream!!! I also dreamed about my ex last night, but in the dream, I saw he had written a Facebook status asking some person called “Marina” if she wanted a massage on the way to their “IQ tests” today. It’s a weird dream, as he’s no longer on my Facebook, but I woke up feeling sad about him, and concerned that he had found someone new to be his OW. I will have to remind myself that I am *not* compatible with someone who said he loves me but is also married and possibly seeking other relationships on the side!!!
@Butterfly. I have left a message for you under part 4 about this whole BDSM thing. Oh, and to answer your recent question, my answer is the same as Skyscraper’s. plus I get a little irritable!!
I think it’s a shame that replies to the last post are not still possible. Aega … my heart aches reading your story because I see in it my own past with my ex but one. I ran myself absolutely ragged for him, and threw away who I was in the process. I now can say it was co-dependent, inverted narcissism …
Reading your words about how you feel because of this guy you met who treated you badly is making me think about my ex again (oh god when will this end, even yesterday he wasn’t “mine” and it’s back full force) wondering if he is in pain, wanting to soothe it … well, it’s a one way street and …
It’s no good, I have to go back to work now. Time to get a grip even if my heart is weeping as much as I am trying not to because I do actually know better.
@Butterfly – I hate to admit it but yes my cycle seems to intensify everything. I notice I become much more weepy and it’s easier to feel sorry for myself
@Butterfly
Since we can’t leave comments on part 4 any more, could you just answer my last post to you from part 4 on here?
thanks 🙂
Meant xo
@PlanetJane – You may not see being sad as a good thing but I think it says a lot about where you are (emotionally). Think about it. It wouldn’t take much to just jump from person to person to try and quench that sadness but you’re not….you’re admitting and dealing with it. It takes a strong person to do that. Our need to have an AC validate our feelings is what helped to make us FBG in the first place. But you’re not doing that….instead you’re being human and admitting that you’re struggling to women that can identify. I think that says tremendous things about you.
I’m sorry your sad…stay strong and big Hugs to you!
@Meant yes I will when I am home from work 🙂
I have to say, work really helps me a lot, I have got to put my best face on and be shiny, cheery and positive. There is an awful lot to be said for “acting as if and it will become”, and already I am feeling better.
You’re absolutely right metsgirl I am indeed feeling sorry for myself and I am giving myself a nice big kick up the backside (I do this every month when I think “aha here we go again” and it makes me feel much better!!)
Yes Butterfly…(my) emotions definitely correlate with the monthly cycle! At mid-point, ovulation, I am strong, confident, nothing bothers me, I can shrug off any setback. About two weeks later, I’m a puddle 🙂 🙁 I’ve heard that acupuncture can help with this…and certain birth control pills, though myself, I’m reluctant to mess with chemistry.
Maybe we can look at it as a cleansing process though, however difficult – shedding the old, unnecessary blood…shedding the old hurts and built up feelings. It does feel good sometimes huh?
Thanks for the well wishes and hugs and luvs. I must say that what I what I felt last night was just very pure to me. At a very basic level, I wanted him – I cared for him – he didn’t want me – and I’m hurt. That’s pretty much it. And it did feel good to let it out. I’m hoping I can move on from hurting and obsessing over him soon…but we all know how that goes…or comes and goes actually 🙂
Hope everyone is doing well today!
@PlanetJane and Butterfly
Yesyesyes it makes a difference! For me the two days or so right before my cycle and the day after really warrant some kind of confinement from society… I have to make a conscious effort not to talk to anyone about anything that might make me remotely sad because I know that I will react completely out of proportion. Last month I actually shut the door to my office and professed being on conference calls for the whole day because I was so irritable and just directionlessly angry. I was afraid that the next poor chump that walked through that door would do so at the wrong moment and get the brunt of it all. I’m still “the new boss” and I don’t think that would go a long way to endear myselft to everyone…
I’m missing my bozo, too. (Brad, if you’re reading this, I have you to blame for the nickname because now I can'[t think of him any other way lol…) I am still a long way from accepting that something that felt so right is really over. I am not able yet to think of any of it without this gaping hole opening up inside. Work is a blessing because it sucks up all of my mental processes and gives me a break from hurting. I have got myself back into the routine of hitting the treadmill as soon as I get home because although your mind frees up, endorphins take really good care of you. But there are still the evenings and the weekends and hard as I’ve tried I can’t delete the emails or the pictures yet.
Butterfly, I don’t know that he treated me badly; the worst of all of this is that I can’t get angry because if it hadn’t been for me we never would have crossed over from the friendship into the affair. Anger helps because then pride kicks in and oftentimes stops you from doing stupid things. But I’m only angry at myself.
9 days of NC.
@ Butterfly – I am very new to the participating aspects of this forum but not to the website it self, so please forgive me if I am am not totally in tune with the protocol.
I have to agree, menstrual cycles have a huge impact on my relationships. I find patters of extra sensitivity, insecurity, and break-ups that lead to NC with my last Mr. Unavailable. Which leads me back to the topic of this post.
If I have fears in common with a man then they are going to boil into unhealthy and dangerous relationships. This usually leads to monthly fights a few days before my cycle. But if I had the good stuff in common, the stuff that really mattered, maybe it would not be an issue, or at least he and I would be able to discuss it, get though it and he and I would be able to be a real partners for each other and we would get through it without without a fight.
Not sure if I am being clear.
thanks,
Rose
As a bell, Rose. As a bell. Moreover, people I know in healthy relationships have guys who might not understand but have learned how to anticipate what is coming, dodge any thrown shoes and buy chocolate 🙂
Butterfly “I have a question. Do you ladies find that your menstrual cycle makes things harder at times? I am now convinced, looking at the calendar, that this is a factor.”
Actually, yes– this is biochemical. At the time of your cycle, endorphins, the “feel good” chemicals, are very low. There are positive ways to lift the endorphins, such as exercise, music/dance, massage, or anything fun and joyful… and also negative ways. Negative endorphin boosters include participating in drama, picking fights, over-eating sugary foods, reliving painful memories, any type of physical or emotional pain, etc. That’s why the AC/EUM may seem more appealing during that time of the month- emotional pain boosts endorphins. (This also explains why people feel “addicted” to the AC, They’re really addicted to the endorphin high that pain causes.)
If you realize it’s biochemical you can find other ways to feel better.
TJ I didn’t know this personally “Negative endorphin boosters include participating in drama, picking fights, over-eating sugary foods, reliving painful memories, any type of physical or emotional pain, etc. ”
BING!! Usually what I end up doing is throwing myself into work, which I enjoy a great deal (because you can’t be a misery in my line of work, you have to act in a positive way and that really helps). I hate how I get grumpy but never thought of it as an endorphin thing. Hmmmm …
It does explain the addiction, always thought it was brain chemistry based and it makes sense why going to the gym stops me feeling down even more than I understood it already. Thank you!
Hi girls,Im working on my healing and the first thing I need to do is get a healthier relationship with myself.I know NML talked about it a lot here but Im still figuring out how to do that.I think that means doing things like speak my mind,say no,let people know when Im bothered,dont say negative things to myself and so on right? I would like to hear other ways you might know of doing that.
OMG… I broke NC after 3 weeks…and i feel so, so awful. It turned into an argument as it always does…he called me a psycho. I feel like one, and yet I know he is the reason for my craziness in the 1st place.
Why, why, why did I break it….i have made huge steps backwards.
@ Lorra, Don’t feel bad. Read the following segment by NML posted under the title the “The no Contact Rule”
“The No Contact Rule exists to hasten the healing process. By dragging out the end of a relationship, it only delays you from happiness in the future. It is important to allow yourself time to mourn the end of the relationship but keep the no contact rule in place. It will be hard at first but the longer you go, the easier it gets. Remember, practice makes perfect. If you find that you slipped up on any of the above, don’t beat yourself up. It’s never too late to start fresh. Remember, no contact means NO CONTACT. It’s the first and most important step to moving on. Now, go get started!”
“Remember, practice makes perfect. If you find that you slipped up on any of the above, don’t beat yourself up. It’s never too late to start fresh!”
It’s OK! Just start again!
Rose
I can relate about the menstrual cycle too. Its crazy but when i hit those days I am at my worst and I tend to miss my AC like never before. I just wonder if AC’s actually go through this at least A LITTLE?! Because they all seem to be made out of ICE or STONE. ugh!!!
I am work in progress still. I wish all of you better days ahead <3
@Rose, do you think having fears in common has to be a disaster? I think one of the reasons that I felt like I couldn’t stay in my marriage was that my husband really has no idea what it’s like to be afraid or insecure. When my fears surfaced, it was almost as though he “quarantined” me – literally packed my gym bag for me or stretch a new canvas for me so that I’d disappear into my studio for a day. Or two… We hardly ever fought. I grew up amidst so much screaming and ill will that I can’t stand for anyone to raise his or her voice. If I were feeling PMS’y and conflictive, I would just stay quiet rather than provoke an angry exchange.
@TJ – I have a question for you: since both dwelling on bad memories or physical activity release endorphins into your blood (so does any kind of repetitive movement, right?), why would a person tend toward one versus the other? I’m a die-hard runner. Definitely addicted, because neither weather nor minor injury deters me from heading up to the mountains. Why hasn’t it replaced that compulsion to go into the dark places within myself and relive painful things? I’ve read that runners are basically people with compulsive tendencies, who have chosen a healthier addiction than some of the others. So what gives?
I have other question.When my ex contacted me after the break up and before I go NC,he called me the same nickname he used to call me when we were together and did some sexual jokes(what I found pretty inaproprieted since we were broke up) and I didnt know how to act by then.How I could have handled it? I mean what I should have said or did to him for him to know that wasnt aceptable?
@ Anusha
They do this to see if you are still “available” for sex after the brake up with you. My AC did this by saying things like: “Can I come see you tonight”? but I could see a big smirk over the phone on his face.
As much as it hurt me I responded by declining the offer saying:” I don’t know if it’s a good idea to keep seeing each other” This happened right in the process of braking up. I guess they want to know how much they can get from you after a brake up. like friends with benefits kind of thing.
I was w/my assclown for nearly 2 years. He recalled meetin me 5 yrs ago at my class reunion (he was married at the time); I didnt remember him. I ran into him at an event I did at his workplace where he “laid on the charm.” We talked for awhile over the phone; he worked evenings so we talked via cell. I agreed to meet up with him for a drink. Shortly into the conversation; I asked if he was married – his reply, “its only on paper.” Nice, egh? I stated it was nice meeting him and left; crying the way home that I hadnt asked sooner over the phone. Anyway, a few months later he separated from the wife n kids; we started dating. The red flags were there; I chose not to acknowlege. After 2 months dating it was my birthday on Dec 31 and his was Jan 1; we had plans to go to a party at my sisters. He never showed, never called…bla blah blah. 3 days later his coworker phoned me that something was wrong he never missed work. She located him at a guys house drunk out of his mind. He and I met the next day for coffee and I told him after listening to a lame excuse that if it happened again to lose my number. The remainder of our relationship he was wonderful although closed. He bought me gifts, an engagement ring 6 mths into the relationship, attended church w/me,etc. Last October he took me to Hawaii and we were engaged (he was still married but had the divorce kept getting delayed). During this time he was laid off of his job twice. I encouraged him to go to Tampa FL (we are in OH). He went to FL alright last November. In March he landed a job & I was to move there over July 4th. Once he landed the job this assclown got cocky and started disappearing on weekends. The communication slowed and he didnt share any of his life w/me. He was ignoring me by not answering the phone or texts. He would apologize, give excuses. He was home Memorial weekend; I of course made him a welcome home sign, spoiled him, etc. We had a good time. The following 2 weekends he disappeared with only 5 minute calls here and there. I was back here in OH packing and crying; what was happening? After ignoring me a couple weekends other than playing text games (Im w/Chris & Tracy; oh, you dont know if they are guys or girls he would say); I decided I was through with this game; I couldnt take the abuse any longer. After ignoring me a few days he texted and said “I messed up.” That was it – no other explanation. I ignored him. I got a few calls in the middle of the nite that I ignored. I had a gut feeling & phoned his new job; he was FIRED. 3 jobs in one year! We fought for a few days back n forth, mainly he would “text”. I broke engagement off. I have been devastated since June. I had a great job offer in FL, my 13 yr old dog had died, and I feel so alone. My daughter is in college. He has moved on supposedly with a new girl. The stangest part is the 180 degree behavior. The few times I did talk he was at bars; in Ohio he barely drank around me or my family. I wonder if he is alcoholic n was hiding it…there’s just no closure. He had his ex wife harrass me a few times; saying he has hard time breaking up w/women, she’s sorry he has another girl, etc. Oh, we were going to get a place together and 1 day he sprang on me that he was moving near his job even though my offer was 1 1/2 hr away…he wasnt driving more than 1/2 hr to work (bet since he was fired KARMA may come around!). Anyway, I’ve tried NC but I slip every now and then. I say I want to know what happened but maybe I dont.
He also tried to “project” what he was doing back on me. I went out 2 times since last November without him; the first time when he ignored me when my car was broke down and was calling him as my cell was dying, and the other time I was w/my daughter. I also know he was in my voicemail and emails somehow. He also must have been going through my things when he stayed here cause he mentioned a few items that were in my closet. I had nothing to hide; I thought he was my life partner…my niece and 2 friends said he always thought he was sneaky and could lead a double life!
Teresa, that guy is one messed up AC. I hope you get the courage to just let it go and never look back. He needs some help.
And, if you keep going back, you’re just asking for more of the same.
I’m only speaking from experience. If he is that unreliable and he is making excuses and telling lies on a regular basis while living a different life while you’re not around, do you really want to find out what happened?
Honestly, I’m not trying to sound harsh…. I, too, had a guy jack me around for over 2 years, and at some point I finally said “enough” and walked away for good. I’m so much more relaxed now and not wasting my brain energy on trying to figure out someone who can’t be figured out. (took me awhile, so I know it might not happen right away for you, either), but are you happy with that kind of relationship? And if not, are you expecting that he will change?
I hope you find some peace about all this. This site has been wonderful for educating myself and learning how to decipher what I really want from a relationship and how to set the boundaries in place in order to not get caught up with a guy like this ever again.
Keep reading, and at some point, if you haven’t read about the No Contact rule, I’d encourage to read that booklet. It is really helpful.
@Anusha. Obviously I can’t say too much because I’m work in progress…but…one thing that really sticks out for me is how badly I’ve neglected my own needs. In fact, at one point I couldn’t even identify them. That was a habit that started in early childhood.
It was simple stuff, like setting appointments with a client and then being forced to stay over because they didn’t make it in on time…now I appreciate my own time and cordially invite them to reschedule. Or I would skip taking breaks at work and sometimes work through lunch because someone else was relying on me to complete a project…now I force myself to take a break regardless of the crunch because my mental health is too important to squander on a company that could easily replace me. You get the idea…
You have to take the adoration you extended to the AC and keep it for yourself. You have to make yourself the most important person and your needs have to be a priority. (Obviously don’t go to the extreme). There is always room for concession but never neglect. Big hugs!
@ Butterfly, yes the time of the month makes a difference to me..
I have found the last couple of days hard to motivate myself to do anything and have to really push myself to just accomplish the basics. I have been angry at myself because I am on the same merry go round that I did manage to get off for a while, so yes certain times of the month I just want to contact him and get some form of validation from him I guess. So far I have managed to sit on my hands and not contact him plus I suppose I am partly curious as to just how long it will be for him to fulfil his word to me…
@ Lorra please don’t feel too bad there are many many posts here where the no contact rule has been broken including myself and the best thing to do is to learn from it.. my contact gradually grew into no contact when I kept recalling how low he could make me feel.. I used to also write out conversations or texts I wanted to send and deep down I would always know what his lame ass reply would be so it helped me in not contacting him.. A long time ago I also had a EUM who would like to call me pyscho best thing is to tell yourself the truth that you are not pyscho and that the smartest thing you can do is stay far away from him.. you deserve better and are worth so much more than that .. good luck just hop back up on the horse…
@Butterfly,
“yes I will when I am home from work” – are you home from work yet? 😉
I am dying to know what you meant by “I bet it gets complex the more you look” from my post about my ex hinting about BDSM in part 4. If you have changed your mind about the email address, I understand, but, can you expand a little on what you meant by this??? I have to see my ex through work in 5 days from now, and I would like to know what I may have been dealing with here, if you are still willing to fill me in.
@Aega – You said “I am still a long way from accepting that something that felt so right is really over.” I completely know what you are saying here! I broke up with my ex-MM almost 5 weeks ago, and sometimes I wonder how it felt so right when everything about the relationship is obviously wrong!!!
Butterfly, that’s why I would like to know the info about people who are into BDSM, so I can become better educated – you had mentioned some seriously messed up people in this culture!
@all my girls from Part 4…LOLOL! (well I didn’t know how else to put it. Y’all know who you are)
“But really, even though you’ve had some times of feeling good, or even great, invariably, you more often than not, feel pretty awful and you spend your time trying to make yourself be compatible with someone else’s bullsh*t.”
This is so ME!!! I was trying with everything I had to mold myself more closely to what would please him. Most of the time I would reason that I really enjoyed the things he introduced me to. I enjoyed spending time with him as often as I could, but it got more forced after the name calling…or, as Serena so truthfully called it…the abuse. Had I seen a therapist before, I would have never looked in his direction. I would have felt better about myself and recognized the “types” of women he was connected to online and thought…”WTF!?!” I didn’t do that until the first “break-up” a year ago. I however, did begin to look at my life and wonder what I was missing. I wasn’t missing his crap though. I just didn’t see the Mack truck heading my way with him in my life, manipulating me…I even read up on Mind Control, because I wondered if I had been “infected” by it. Many of the things I found on the checklist…I could tie into the sorts of things he did with me. Not sexual, but things that I suppose, made the quality of sex less important to me. LOL…there’s that laugh again. But I’m being totally serious.
I looked into things to please him, as I said before. Music he liked I checked out, political viewpoints he had…I tried to empathize with based on what I knew about his background…his love of old movies…his PTSD and how he used these movies to help deal with it…he never watches violent flicks. Heck, he even shared his vast library of books with me. I’m thinking now, of course, he had titles I’d love because he had to be ready for any woman in his lair at the time. I have forgotten what I was going to say!!! LOLOL
Ohhhh…well, the site that I signed up to learn his desires on and that he and his new girl are soliciting NSA women partners on….(she seems to be obsessed by her bra size! Talks of it constantly. LOL) Sorry, I’m being silly. Well…I won’t be going there to look and hurt myself any longer…I deleted the account, so I can’t see anything. He’s on it right now and I swear…I actually looked at it and said….Geez, this man needs help! They are there together and he’s putting in more hours at his age…more power to him if he doesn’t give out. I just don’t care any longer…until next time. I love him, but I must move on. He is keeping me from being who I am, who I was meant to be. There is more to a relationship than a bedroom trist and sexual connections. He was more interested in all the other things to enhance the sex he could offer. But the man I thought I was loving would have been enough. He’s worried about being a man…and doesn’t understand that it does not entail denegrading his woman. He didn’t trust me to love the jerk he was in spite of himself…and I don’t trust him because he can’t trust himself.
No it doesn’t make sense…but I kinda feel that this is a milestone for me…I no longer want to track his every statement there. It was only ripping the scars open over and over.
Okay…I’m done. Check me out and if I’m blowing smoke…just scream it at me. I may be missing something else to fix.
@Anusha
I need to say first that this is not advice on having a healthy relationship with yourself (I hope someone lets me know as soon as they see me get one lol…), but here’s something that works for me for those times when all the doom and gloom just pours into my mind. Ever had a really bad headache or muscle ache and it was hours before you could get some relief? When you do come by a couple of Advil and chug it down, it still takes time for it to work, right? But you know now your headache has an end in sight, you just have to get through the next 30 minutes or so – nothing you can do about this last stretch because the painkiller needs time to kick in. For me, that always meant that I could put reacting to my headache “on hold”. As in, there’s nothing I could do about the 30 minutes so I might as well concentrate on something else.
This works for me when something brings the hurt and the missing into focus again, be it a picture, a phone call you ignore, or just hormones. I know it will pass, because feelings do. I will eventually get distracted or fall asleep or get galvanized into doing the laundry or a run or whatever. So I tell myself that the hurt is here now and since there’s not a damn thing I can do about it I might as well just leave it be. No matter what, I know that 24 hours from now I’m just not going to feel this shitty anymore so why dwell on it. And somehow that takes some of the sting out. It’s like you watch your misery come in, have itself a seat and start staring at you, and you say to it, “OK…? And…?” Well, all it is going to do is just sit there. There is no “and”. Eventually it gets tired and goes away. Silly, I know, but it usually works for me.
Disclaimer: I don’t actually *talk* to my feelings, no need to start padding my apartment yet, and it is after 1 a.m. my time…
The amount of EUM (married man) and Assclowns approaching me is just unbelievable. Sometimes I think do I have it engraved into my forehead ??
Fortunately I have learned a lot lately and I am sending those guys back to reality straight away. It works every time and it is quite funny to watch how those Assclowns and EUM’s react ! 😉
Have a great day everybody !!
@Meant = check your email in the guy’s name please, Nat has worked her magic!
@ Aega, I have never been married, however, I don’t think any human is able to live without feeling fear (being afraid and feeling insecure, as you state above).
Its just so human!
Actions speak louder than words – right?
I’m curious to know what you do Alice 🙂
@Butterfly
OK, I will look. I don’t check that email much, as I set it up just for *him*
I will read what you put, then I will be out for most of the day so will reply later tonight or tomorrow.
Thank you so much Butterfly and NML!
Meant XO
@Jetred,
I don’t have much time to comment, but just wanted to let you know that this part you wrote really rang true with me, too.
“He’s worried about being a man…and doesn’t understand that it does not entail denegrading his woman. He didn’t trust me to love the jerk he was in spite of himself…and I don’t trust him because he can’t trust himself.”
We can’t continue letting them build themselves up at our expense!!!
Hugs to you, Meant XO
Thank you very much Katty,metsgirls and Aega for the coments on my posts 🙂
@Meant…
“We can’t continue letting them build themselves up at our expense!!!”
Yes, you’re right. I let him do that in such a way that I now feel just a slight memory of me, if there is one at all, is his validation. He realized how much I cared for him and it made him even more confident in seeking a better deal. You know, the situation that happens when a woman lets the guy park in her garage til he gets his raggedy hooptie fixed up to drive the next woman around in. I was only an ego booster. He built himself up on my love, caring, and idolization of him…now bi-curious, Thumbellina is reaping the harvest of my investment. Whatever it was worth. LOL…it’s so much like what NML says. Thanks to me, and probably others, he’s ready to be her ideal mate. Wonder if I should charge a fee? LOL
Alli
Sorry about that last post…I’m feeling a lot of anger today…it’s not about her. It’s about me and my foolishness. I’m hating the fact that all I wanted was him and it’s not enough…not enough and this is the most valuable thing I had to give him. It’s so difficult to realize that you just weren’t the one for him when I…
oh well…she’s the one now. She knew to just move in…I hope she gets more than I did. I always told him that I would never compete with other women. I never felt that it should have to come to that. I’ve been known to walk away from a man who’s involved with someone else. This was a good way to get rid of me. Maybe that’s why he didn’t feel the need to say anything…just give me a hint and I’m gonna re-coil. That’s what I did in fear of rejection…I never pressed the issues. I’m so mad about that.
You know I don’t mean that either. I’m going to try to push down the negativity. I can be harsh…I don’t like that.
@TJ – I have a question for you: since both dwelling on bad memories or physical activity release endorphins into your blood (so does any kind of repetitive movement, right?), why would a person tend toward one versus the other? I’m a die-hard runner. Definitely addicted, because neither weather nor minor injury deters me from heading up to the mountains. Why hasn’t it replaced that compulsion to go into the dark places within myself and relive painful things? I’ve read that runners are basically people with compulsive tendencies, who have chosen a healthier addiction than some of the others. So what gives?
Why gravitate towards one and not the other? I’d say habit. It’s so much easier for me personally to sit and dwell than it is to motivate myself to exert myself. I’m not a biochemist, but there are two brain chemicals at play: endorphins and serotonin. Sometimes we try to “self-medicate†two ways: by obsessing on thoughts, or dwelling on painful experiences (repetitive movements like knitting or even sweeping releases serotonin). Also, with endorphins, just like any drug, you build up a tolerance so to speak.
It’s hard to explain here in the “short form”. I’m in a recovery group that’s about breaking all addictions, whether it’s alcohol, drugs, behaviors, shopping, people, drama, sugar, etc. I feel I have broken the “addiction” to the drama the AC/EUM bring. Sometimes I’m tempted to take a “hit” (which I think this website gives me) but overall, I can’t imagine going down that path again.
This is so true it made me sick…
@Anusha
After reading NML’s post ‘How I learned to love myself’ I took an honest inventory of my life and made a decision take responsibility for my embittered disposition. The process of rooting out relationships and environments that were having a negative impact on my life was easier than I thought. If it made me wince, feel dread or drained…it was nixed!
On the flip-side I started working on my ‘Bucket List.’ I’m 40 and healthy, so why not start now? The cool thing about this exercise is that I found myself inviting others to join me on the various kooky adventures: Skydived with my daughter on Mother’s day; took kayaking lessons with my GF; and visited the #2 water park in the world with my little ones. Without realizing it I was reconnecting with the people in my life on a positive note. Incrementally my relationships and self-esteem began healing and improving: I wasn’t so focused on the negative.
I tell my GFs all the time, “They may have got our childhood, but we are responsible for our adulthood!â€
We set the standard for our quality of life, which is why we have boundaries. And once established it is up to us to maintain those standards / boundaries. When we allow them to become compromised: Hello sickly sweet feeling of dread, disappointment and disgrace!
@ butterfly – for example,guy at the gym who is married is chatting me up and flirting while his wife is there with him. I basically ignore him and have a great conversation with his wife who is a really lovely lady and brill to talk to. He tries all sorts to get my attention and eventually moves to another woman who is willing to talk to him.
Find this behaviour of him quite strange .
I just refuse to get furthr involved as to talk about the weather if I know a guy is married. It’s strictly hands off, but unfortunately it just happens that one gets approached by all sorts all the time.
But I have the luxury to choose and after EUM, Narcissist and Assclown, I will choose very carefully.
@PlanetJane – I haven’t been reading consistantly, so I missed your post. I’m so sorry you’re sad. Sometimes I think a broken heart never really goes away, it just hurts less often. Just when you think you’re okay, it creeps up behind you and wacks you over the head again. No matter what a piece of crap they’ve been, we have still given them a part of ourselves we can never get back.
We keep so many secrets about our f**ked up relationships that if we don’t tell someone sometime we might explode or worse. Please lean on us. I won’t give you platitudes, but you can always get sympathetic listeners here. I hope you’re okay.
TJ wrote this
“Why gravitate towards one and not the other? I’d say habit. It’s so much easier for me personally to sit and dwell than it is to motivate myself to exert myself. I’m not a biochemist, but there are two brain chemicals at play: endorphins and serotonin. Sometimes we try to “self-medicate†two ways: by obsessing on thoughts, or dwelling on painful experiences (repetitive movements like knitting or even sweeping releases serotonin). Also, with endorphins, just like any drug, you build up a tolerance so to speak.”
THis is really interesting and I never really knew this. One of the things that frustrated me about the EUM was his comfort in being depressed and stuck on his painful thoughts and past experiences. It was like he enjoyed being unhealthy, and pain was so familiar to him it was comforting. Of course, the danger of this is that i got pulled into the despair and eventually it was too hard for me to maintain my good cheer.
I found that for the first few months of NC I would, either upon waking, or falling asleep , often “conjure up” the pain of the EUM experience by thinking about him/ it/ the whole shebang. It was odd in that I was seeking some comfort by doing it, and getting a bit of some odd comfort, but I also knew it was completely illogical and ultimately unsatisfying to seek comfort by staying with the pain of the whole experience. I have ever though of pain or anger as an addictive force. Guess that might also explain right wing agitating hate radio too. EUM was fond of that junk.
One thing I will say about my one and only EUM experience. As awful as it was it was also fascinating all along in some way, maybe at being exposed to some of the darkest stuff I have ever been through. NOT saying one should ever willingly put themselves through it a second time around, but as far as learning experiences go it was a doozy. What I learned above all is to value my emotional and physical health and sanity above all else, to hold on tight onto those things.
@Jetred
It’s Ok to get angry sometimes! Especially when we have been dealing with men who don’t respect us, don’t respect our boundaries, and use us for their own gain. as NML says: “If you and your man do not share basic fundamentals that yield two people with both of their feet in the relationship that share the common interest of loving, caring about, respecting, and trusting one another, no matter how many ‘interests’ you claim to have in ‘common’, you don’t have things in common where it counts.”
We don’t have enough of what counts in common with these guys!!!
I wish I was like you, and able to walk away right away when you know another woman is involved. if I had done that, i wouldn’t be in this mess to begin with!!! I have a feeling that my ex also got a bit of an ego boost from our “interactions”, and may feel more confident now to find his next OW (yuck!!)
OK, I’m talking about *him* too much already – time to get the focus back to *us*. I think I’m going to find a nice glass of wine that’s compatible with my mood right now 🙂
Have a great evening all!!
Meant
@Jetred you’re making me cry. I wasn’t going to cry since I’ve been busy convincing myself that I have entered the Phoenix-rising-from-the-ashes stage of all this, but I think I’m full of s..*t, because I’m sitting here bawling into my Unsalted Saltine Crackers (who comes up with these names??) and I must have read this paragraph half a dozen times now.
“I’m hating the fact that all I wanted was him and it’s not enough…not enough and this is the most valuable thing I had to give him. It’s so difficult to realize that you just weren’t the one for him when I…”
We had told each other everything, or at least at the time it felt like everything. He didn’t try to “fix†me just as I didn’t want to “fix†him. We were both able to step out of our overachieving A-type personalities in front of each other and get goofy or cheesy or just laugh so hard we would snort. I loved his intelligence and insight and encouraged him to do what he loved and not what paid six figures. I didn’t think that “upgrading†to a house with a pool was more important than a life-long dream of getting a pilot’s license. He had been shy about getting soft around the middle and I thought that was silly because I loved him exactly the way he was.
But none of that was enough. Or maybe it was too much. When I started the NC silence a part of me had hoped that – like me – he would come to realize that finding all those things in another person was one of a kind and irreplaceable and worth pursuing. Now I’m realizing that all that I had given of myself wasn’t what he wanted. They all just happened to be things that came in the 6-foot tall blond package.
My having said good-bye first took a lot of work out of this for him, didn’t it? No need to make up a story now as to why 2K miles is too far to get to you “soul mateâ€.
Boy was I sticking my hand out when our Maker gave out naïve.
@ Aega,
“Boy was I sticking my hand out when our Maker gave out naïve.”
What a beautiful turn of phrase!
Be careful about what you change. Being naive, if you stay around good people, is a healthy and happy way to live. Once we find our partner, build our home – we should be naive about the whole outside world, while being intensely aware of our family and our partner.
But until we weed out the people we dare not trust or respect, naive does risk getting us hurt.
@brokenheartedbabble – “No matter what a piece of crap they’ve been, we have still given them a part of ourselves we can never get back.”
Thanks so much. Funny. I’m feeling so much better today. It helped me to get to the very basics. And it helped for me to say, “I WISH I could be emotional with him” because that is the basis of our relationship and my pain. He never “allowed” me, in the relationship to feel…to want anything, to expect anything of him. He is so EU that, not only his but, MY feelings made him uncomfortable – ESPECIALLY my feelings actually, and I can’t be in that relationship – I’m NOT in it, even if I am in it.
He hasn’t taken anything from me. I’ve found something because of him. I have every right to feel WHATEVER it is that I’m feeling. I don’t have to act on my feelings. But the people who care about me will want to know…and will foster my feelings for them.
He’s an emotional cripple. He’s about 3 years old. And this is not anger, it’s empowerment. I feel GOOD today for the first time in a long time. No one will ever take that from me again.
I only hope I’ll be able to let someone in who truly deserves it. Only time will tell that one.
LUV.
@aphrogirl — pain is highly addictive! If you Google “Pain Addiction Armand DiMele” there’s a good article that explains it:
“Emotional pain can become an addiction. A negative feeling, such as anger, worry, grief, fear, or depression, can become so habitual that you cannot live without it…. The feelings of love and pain are so frequently associated that they become one and the same. Loving unavailable people and staying in intolerable relationships, for example, are signs that love and pain have become intertwined. ”
I believe that the AC/EUM cause us very deep pain and this explains why it’s so hard to let it go– especially if we have to go “cold turkey” with NC– and we crave just a little fix, just a word, just a text… one email… just something.. a little something..!!!
If you think about it, the way we behave with an AC/EUM is very much like an addict:
-The person becomes obsessed (constantly thinks of) the object, activity, or substance.
-They will seek it out, or engage in the behavior even though it is causing harm
-Upon cessation of the activity, withdrawal symptoms often occur.
-The person does not appear to have control as to when, how long, or how much he or she will continue the behavior.
I’ve gone through an addiction recovery program and was shocked to see how “addicted” I was to the AC/EUM types, not only in romantic relationships but also friends, bosses, family members. I’m at a stage where I am hyper-aware of the AC types. I think eventually this hatred of them will ease but right now I am very angry. ( I wonder if hating him is just another way to get my little “pain fix”? Possibly)
I have a hard time “trusting” people who are friendly towards him, though I have to remember that few know the whole story. I have noticed he is working very hard to play Mr Charming. When he preyed on me, his act was Mr. Pitiful.
Someone mentioned that it’s kind of odd that he even instantly recovered from an “injury” he used to talk about and play up to gain attention and sympathy.
I am still feeling duped and conned as I see him play his Mr Charming act, as though nothing happened, or as though *I* had the problem. I kept saying to myself, “he should feel ashamed of his behavior!” and I’m still angry that he “got away with” how he behaved and treated me but I have learned that, him being a sociopath means he has no feelings.
@ TJ don’t feel duped and conned when you see him doing his Mr Charming act. You have to keep in mind that those people only see the surface of him and they don’t have the knowledge about people with personality disorders we have, because we lived with them.
The Narcissist I was with, acted in exactly the same way and fooled a lot of people for many years.
But eventually their world will be collapsing, because eventually “normal”people will see through them and realize what scum they are. It might take a while, but believe me one day they will be very alone.
TJ what a wonderful post. Thank you – every day something else makes more sense (not about any man, that bit makes perfect sense now, about what I need to do about myself).
There’s a guy I like. I’d not normally go for this type – steady, dependable, definitely got integrity given the work he does – we don’t have hobbies in common but I feel at ease with him … yet not “home” or “connected” in the usual way. He is a little shy and hesitant under an everyday confident exterior (again, job). I actually really thought he was very attractive and wouldn’t ever have looked at me because in the past he would not … maybe I have changed in ways I can’t see myself?
My friend said to me last night “You know what? You’ve finally moved on.” and I am not sure if I totally agree with him but … well, we’ll see. Nice and slowly.
Oh gosh, I miss his voice…just want one touch. I may just truly hate him right now. Going back to bed…I can’t handle the waking up as realizing it’s not a nightmare…its what I’m left with.
Oh gosh, I miss his voice…just want one touch. I may just truly hate him right now. Going back to bed…I can’t handle the waking up as realizing it’s not a nightmare…its what I’m left with.
Man, aren’t we having a week, Ladies? Onward to the next…please!
oops…can’t even comment correctly today…Sorry.
@Jetred I remember this phase – being so so so so tired but dreading going to sleep, thinking about the situation, then waking up feeling not great but not bad and then BANG the thump in the solar plexus.
It passes. It does. You can’t see it or imagine it, but it DOES.
I did a little exercise just now – on my mobile phone there is a little game, I was playing it when I was ill and we were “not getting along” as he put it. He threw a crumb to my desperately sad ill self and I remember playing this game and thinking “it’s ok it’s still ok”.
I tried to put myself mentally back in that place – lying on the sofa by the window, listening to the music of the game, reassured. A funny thing happened … yes I had instant recall but I FELT BLOODY AWFUL. Life at that time was horrible, with all the drama and pain. How can I miss that? I don’t. More to the point, you don’t either, you just haven’t got to that state of being. Keep NC. Focus on something else, maybe your favourite song? That’s the voice of an abuser and a skank, with a festering fly ridden crotch 🙂
Thanks again TJ, between this infomation about pain addiction and what you said earlier there’s not been a lightbulb moment, it’s like all the floodlights in a football stadium just shone right in my face.
@everyone
This IS an addiction, and one that I thought I was getting over. I was feeling so strong from reading your stories and advice, and NML’s posts, knowing full well that I am NOT compatible with his bullsh*t, knowing that interacting with him can only hurt me, and also feeling kind of repulsed by him (especially with Butterfly’s visual of the festering fly-ridden crotch!).
Last night, I was missing the ex like crazy – partly because I am staying in a hotel that we have been at together in the past. I am also PMSing, so anyway, I re-added him to MSN and had an online chat with him for about half an hour. We mostly talked about the conference coming up (which we have both been planning and we’ll be facilitating), but we also reminisced a bit about previous conferences (which are occasions we usually “get together”), and he shared some music he had been listening to lately. So it was definitely not “strictly business”.
I don’t feel like have have “gone back to square one” as far as my feelings go, although, like you Jetred, I am now craving his touch, hearing his voice, and smelling his skin. I have not thought through yet where to go from here.
Can someone tell me if this means I have completely broken NC – do I have to start again? I am so ashamed of myself!!!
@Meant – yes you broke NC…but pick right up and start again.
Yes we miss them but we need to focus on what we DON’T miss and the negative aspects of what it did to us…instead of what we miss. Much easier said than done.
Yes, this is all very addicting. I broke NC twice…and had the sadness, frustration and embarrassment all over again. I can only assume it is like an alcoholic having a drink after a short period of time of sobriety…the shame, guilt, frustration and feeling out of control.
Stay strong…thank you everyone. You all really help.
I think it helps if you think the cost it will be to break NC.I do have thought about it a lot lately and sometimes the craving is so strong that I have to restrain myself from going after him.But then I think to myself “ok if I contact him I will get rid of that umcomfortable felling but I will also put myself back on something that is so bad for me”.Is realy worth to go back to all those disapointment,anger,hurt and so on just for that? I know the craving doesnt fell nice but is better stick to that (that eventualy will pass) than going back to the emotional atachment with the EUM.And dont beat yourself up for had broke NC,it happens.Be kind to yourself and jump back in
This is a bit off topic but I really need to vent so apologies in advance.
I’ve been having a FWB thing with my ex AC for a number of years – it’s suited me to some extent. The AC’s current main woman doesn’t live here but visits him every few weeks, in between visits he and I meet. She doesn’t know this but has always said she’ll kill him if he sleeps with anyone else especially me. Now though she’s starting to behave in a way that is worrying me and I don’t know what to do.
I live abroad in a community where everyone knows each other, some people become friends, others acquaintances. I go to a friend’s bar regularly, the other woman has taken to going there too when she is visiting, I ignore her when she does. I went to a party there this week, she turned up bringing the AC (who hates going to this bar) with her and plonked herself and him in front of me. I was annoyed but ignored them and carried on talking to another friend. Then she came over and thrust her phone number into the hand of my friend telling her to get in touch. Friend looked a bit surprised and took the number, half an hour later the other woman came over again, leaned in front of me and asked my friend for her number. By now steam was coming out of my ears!
I considered throwing a drink over her, telling her that leaning in front of anyone was just rude, but decided to maintain my dignity, rise above it and say nothing. Then I felt a wimp for saying nothing, Now I’m just confused and depressed and a bit insecure.
Nowhere is free it seems, wherever I go she is there, I don’t talk to her, I don’t talk to him, now I can’t even talk to my friends in peace!
Anyway sorry, I’m embarrassed to talk to anyone about it, it seems so childish, as I write this I can’t believe it’s about three people over 40. I was alright with the FWB thing but this situation is ridiculous.
@Kimba – “Yes we miss them but we need to focus on what we DON’T miss and the negative aspects of what it did to us…instead of what we miss.”
@Anusha – “Is really worth to go back to all those disapointment,anger,hurt and so on just for that?”
Yeah! I think these are very important points in maintaining NC. It is excruciating at times to cut all contact, to not reply to contact and especially to know that it is permanent – that you are putting the eum/ac out of your life forever. It is a huge loss, and so many emotions come into play – and grief. But I always remind myself that if I go back now…one day – y’all ladies know this sh*te will happen again (it is an undeniable pattern with these guys) – we will have to start over! Do you really want to have to go through ALL THIS again?! It will get better! IT WILL. Please just hang in there for a better life. I’ll try and do the same 🙂
Luv.
@Sadthing –
Sounds like a mess…and a lot of drama for a FWB situation. Are you sure it’s worth it? If you don’t have feelings for the ac, it seems like it would be easy for you to just end it. If you do – and I think you probably do – you probably shouldn’t be in a FWBS, and should take a break and rethink if you really want to be the OW in this threesome – cuz that is what you are. Easier said than done, I know and sorry to be so blunt, but I have the luxury of being an outsider – and wanting the best for all fbgs on this site. Let me know what you think!
@sadthing
Oh honey. Is one man worth this?
@ PJ and Butterfly, thanks and you are both right, he’s not worth the drama that seems to be heading my way. But there’s the addiction part which I can’t quite get over.
The posts above talk about this and I know it’s true, and I also know that I don’t want her to ‘win’ – ha, win an AC, what a prize!
I keep telling myself that I will not stoop to her level, I will never fight over a man especially one I know no-one could never have a successful relationship with because he’s an EUM with spots on – but boy is it difficult not to want to murder the scheming manipulative controlling insecure ugly witch – ooops seem to have lost the plot, and to think I felt sorry for her last week. Grrr
@kimba, Anusha and PJ – thank you for your replies and support. I know and agree with everything you all said. The craving is still there though, just like it is for sadthing – that terrible “addiction part” that seems stronger than me right now 🙁
I *know* I should just forgive myself and get right back on the NC wagon. My mind has been telling me annoying nonsense lately, like “maybe one more time with him wouldn’t be so bad” and “if you don’t get together with him, he will find another OW at the conference, and how will that feel?” I am *so* pathetic that I am concerned about this man, who belongs to someone else anyway, finding a new partner. And all this even though I now know he is an AC. What the hell is wrong with me???
Meant to be Happy-That is normal behaviour,we keep expecting things will be diferent and say those things to ourselves to justificate to continue invested.But you know they wont be,he is a AC and wont change.I do worry about my ex finding somebody else too but is like NML said,if he does she just will go trough everything you did.So you shouldnt want to be in her place.See from this side,she will be suffering with a AC while you will be there free to find a emotionaly avaliable man and get the love you deserve.So who is in a better position?
@Anusha,
Yes, you are right. I must be a slow learner because I have to hear these same ideas many times to sink into my brain!!! Thank you for asking that last question – if I can maintain NC, *I* will be in a better position!!!
Hi All,
Back from my hols and catching up, so forgive me if my comments are not up to speed. (I’ve only read through quickly).
But I just felt a bit pushed to say: from what I pick up, whatever the actual topic, NML’s posts are so often about US looking honestly at ourselves, our expectations, behaviours, wants and illusions. One of the big “things” comes across is our need to be honest with ourselves, in the privacy of our own minds at least.
But is there a part of some of us that believes “love” has to be painful, stressful, traumatic? Is there something in some of us that needs to struggle and compete to make it “worth having”?
I ask not to criticise (sadthing and Anusha) but because for years I battled to get a very dear friend of mine to see the truth about her marriage – which finished 6 months after starting, but didn’t officially end for a further 13 years as she allowed the SadSack to visit every now and again.
She claimed that it was because “it suited her. It fitted in with what she wanted”. Errrr, no, actually.
It brought her years of pain, unhappiness, prevention of starting something good with someone good – and finally, when his new woman found out about her, it turned her into the tacky OW and caused such vitriolic backlashes in her life she sometimes dared not go out of her door for fear of running into new woman’s angry friends…
To me, sadthing, it sounds like you are on the start of that particular journey: his woman DOES know about you, she just has no proof yet. Most likely, she’ll squeeze the truth out of him during some screaming match one night very soon… and then, God Forbid, but are you ready for what you’ll face at that time? Will it have been worth it – the odd visit from an EU/AC looking for a bit of shufty?
I cannot for the life of me understand how a man who made you unhappy in your relationship can make you in any way happy out of it!
Now, as I say sweetheart, I’m not criticising, and most certainly not judging (who the hell would I be to judge anyone on this earth?); but I would encourage you to look at your view of this relationship – do you enjoy the trauma, drama, stress, pain? Is that your interpretation of “love”?
The answer is for you alone to know, your business entirely. But at least in knowing you’d be able to do what NML seems to want us to do: be 100% honest with yourself.
Perhaps you’ll say, “Yes, actaully, I do enjoy the drama, and the trauma that will follow is exciting and I can handle it”. In which case I’d say, “Good for you. Go for it, Babes, and enjoy”.
But, from what I know of you on here, I don’t think you will enjoy the brown stuff hitting the fan. I don’t believe you think he is worth it in any way at all. And I don’t believe he or anything about him makes you happy to any degree whatsoever.
We have to look coldly and clearly at what “we have/had” with these men: it’s crap and the good bits were created by us anyway! The more I look at it, the more I believe women’s wonderful imaginations and expectations can create stories, fantasies and illusions that leave Emma Bronte, Disney and David Blane standing!
While on hols, I had the great misfortune to read what my sister calls her “smelly mags” (Take A Break, it’s life! and such rot), and my sister has an absolute riot tracking the “women who love Turkish Waiters they met on holiday”. Women in their 70’s marrying Turkish Waiters of 23 and trying to get permission for their “husbands” to join them in the U.K. (while sending money abroad to help him finance his “sick mother”); the 27 stone woman who has been alone for 12 years but gets proposed to on her second night at the Turkish hotel…. and whose husband hates taking her money and wouldn’t if he didn’t have a disabled sister to look after…
It’s blindingly OBVIOUS to any and all who read such trot to see the abusive and nasty game being played on these women right from the start; but they won’t hear a word: they KNOW it’s love and no one can tell them any different!
Well, some of us are doing the very same thing – but it’s not so blindingly obvious: OUR users are not 40 years younger than us, bankrupting us, looking for residency where we live…. but they are playing EXACTLY the same nasty game on us!!!
We should at least be prepared to acknowledge to ourselves that “love this ain’t” and “satisfying he ain’t and never was” but “it’s better than nothing/I’m afraid of being alone/I like the painful adventure of it”.
Then we can get on and enjoy the trauma/drama of it all.
Otherwise, please, NO CONTACT. At all. Ever. Cut loose and leave them to the poor women who “won”.
And Thank God all over again it wasn’t us!
Whatever you do sadthing and Anusha, be happy and do take care of yourselves. You’re the ones we give a damn about on here.
Love, Leonine.
Sorry, I did (of course) mean Emily Bronte – jet lag!
love, Leonine
@Meant – “I *know* I should just forgive myself and get right back on the NC wagon. My mind has been telling me annoying nonsense lately, like “maybe one more time with him wouldn’t be so bad†and “if you don’t get together with him, he will find another OW at the conference, and how will that feel?†I am *so* pathetic that I am concerned about this man, who belongs to someone else anyway, finding a new partner. And all this even though I now know he is an AC. What the hell is wrong with me???”
@Anusha – “Meant to be Happy-That is normal behaviour,we keep expecting things will be diferent and say those things to ourselves to justificate to continue invested.But you know they wont be,he is a AC and wont change.I do worry about my ex finding somebody else too but is like NML said,if he does she just will go trough everything you did.So you shouldnt want to be in her place.See from this side,she will be suffering with a AC while you will be there free to find a emotionaly avaliable man and get the love you deserve.So who is in a better position?”
It’s exactly where I am, and I know exactly, exactly how you feel. A lot of the time – and it is getting longer and longer – I’m strong, I am. I feel fine, I know I’m doing the right thing, but a little wayward thought will creep in there, and all of a sudden I’m hurting. I really can’t stand the thought of him being with this other girl. This other girl is an old “friend” who, basically listened to me talk about my feelings for him one night, and then within days, called him up, asked him out and started sleeping with him. It’s HARD to get over that. She “won” him. I’m the loser. But, like Anusha says, I KNOW I have to move on. I’ve known for a long time that I need to move on. The only way to do that is NC. It’s HARD. It is. And when it comes down to it…he’s not contacting me…he could not care less about me. And that’s hard. But I have to accept it for me – and the rules of NC provide a structure to cling to in times of weakness. Go ahead and doubt and panic and grieve and lament and worry and stress and cry and long and wish and feel guilty and make excuses…just don’t contact him, and don’t respond to him.
Luv.
@PJ
“It’s HARD. It is. And when it comes down to it…he’s not contacting me…he could not care less about me. And that’s hard. But I have to accept it for me”
Thank you for this. For some reason your post brought tears to my eyes. Maybe it is partly PMS, but maybe it’s just relief that you understand all too well what I’m going through. I feel so bad for you that your ex is now with your friend. I sooo fear how that would feel.
Hugs to you,
Meant XO
PlanetJane-“And when it comes down to it…he’s not contacting me…he could not care less about me. And that’s hard. But I have to accept it for me”
I know it fells like he doesnt care because he isnt contacting you while you are in NC,my ex isnt contacting me either(besides the text about soccer a month ago).And yes it used to bother me but try to see if this way,if he contact you would be able to resist? I dont know if I would because even though I know I should Im still not over him and have low days,so maybe if he contact me on one of those days I wouldnt resist.So them not contacting us actualy is something good,it makes our route on the healing way easier.It keep us on the right track,try to see it from this side.
Aega,
“I’m missing my bozo, too. (Brad, . . ., I have you to blame for the nickname…)”
Well, I guess I have to accept the blame, then.
But do remember what is in a name. I have no relationship to someone that sounds inept, ignorant, and hurtful. When I say clown or bozo, that is a mild term for someone that hasn’t done me harm.
But I respect NML’s terms, EUM, Assclown – these are very strong words. When they apply to someone in your life, use them. Using the strong word every time you think of him reminds you of the harm he has done. When I help one of my neighbors work his cows, I tend to call them names – Precious and Pretty, mostly. Maybe Dear. I want to hear myself treasure the animals when I address them, so that I treat them with respect and joy. And generally I have fun driving, sorting, and helping to handle the cows.
When you are separating from someone hurtful, it helps to hear yourself use a name appropriate to the hazard he represents to your life. Bozo and clown are laughable, disrespectful but not serious. Assclown is clearly vulgar and unacceptable, clearly like the bozo that has wasted so much of your time, energy, and pain.
Blessed be.
@Butterfly…
” That’s the voice of an abuser and a skank, with a festering fly ridden crotch.”
I’m still sitting here laughing loudly every time I think of this line. You’ve got a way with words, dearie! So funny…you’ll keep me laughing through this horrible N/C won’t you? Not a bad idea. Thanks so much. He’s a waste of my time and thoughts. I know it’s gonna get better, I’m just not there yet. Such a despicable way to treat someone…especially me! I didn’t deserve toying with…and he never deserved someone like me. Waste of just about everything, as he doesn’t amount to much. And I’m still thinking about him, anyhow.
Sorry just ranting. Take care today everyone.
I married an assclown/bozo/skank, divorced him after 12 years. I’ve just got away from an abuser/assclown/EUM par excellence after 5 years. In both relationships I was the one doing the work, I had to reel them in and hold them here, even though they said they loved me, wanted to be with me. Both times the breakup cost me my home and left me penniless and holding the baby (literally in the case of my husband). Both times I did all the emotional labour and had to work hard at getting them to ‘open up’ despite them saying they were in pain and needed someone to share it with. Maybe they both ‘shared’ with the other women they were knocking off. So, I decided after #2 – no more. I’m OK by myself and not interested in being held back any more. Until X comes into my life, a few weeks ago. X made it clear from the start he was interested, and I made it clear I was not. He is not My Type. Ho Ho. Thanks NML for these latest posts. To answer the person who wondered if she was becoming emotionally unavailable, to tell what the difference is between EU and cautious in yourself/needy and confident in him, I say “Can he look you in the eye and not be afraid to be himself?”. Wow. What a difference it is, too. Yes, I was the one saying “it’s too soon, I need to have my space, I can’t talk about it, it’s private”. I think it happens when you lose trust in yourself, when you realise you can’t believe anyone any more. But kind, gentle, mature X was not going to be the pushover to my EU behaviour. He said “I know you are in pain and I know how hard it is for you to deal with it. But if you don’t open up and tell me how can I understand the best way to hold your heart safe? I’m not going to stand in the corner and wait, but I don’t want to miss this opportunity.” I realised I was at risk of punishing the person who should be my saviour. Already the difference is stunning. And guess what? He IS my type after all. I’m not sure I would have seen it without this site. Great, great stuff. I am having a wonderful time with a wonderful man who respects me, adores me and stands up to me, all at the same time as making me feel safe and gorgeous. It’s possible. Hang on in there!
Prickly
I often wishes there were more posts on this site about good
outcomes from learning about EUM. Today I realized that i have the EUM to thank for me being very very clear about what I am looking for as I am single for the first time in 30 years.
Thanks for sharing. What your story says to me is that the man is self confident and emotionally aware enough to be conscious of your feelings as well as his. Does this make him perfect for you ? Ahhh, only time will tell but…. so far he is not EUM and for that reason alone I am breathing a sigh of relief for you, cause EUM’S are a PIA, or worse !
Hey everyone! I haven’t posted in a while. I just wanted to see if my EUM really was one since it had been the first go around at the whole breaking up no contact thing. Well sure enough I let him back in and it was all “oh I missed you so much” and ” I have feelings for you that I had never felt before and thats why i pulled away/broke up with you” I really wanted to believe him. He did seem different to me for a bit, like a few weeks, but for the last few days it seems like its back to the old ass clownery behavior. I even got a call from him this morning which I didnt answer and didnt return because he didnt leave a message. But a few minutes later he sends me a text asking if I can talk and making it sound kind of important. I swait a few minutes then call him only to have him basically have nothing to say except to tell me what he is doing today ( which wasnt anything exciting) and he will call me later and then sounded like he wanted to get off the phone quickly. WTF?? Crazy! So now I know and am whatever about him. Thank you so much for this site!!! I would have been completely blindsided by this hot and cold shit. Stupid!
Anyway, I have someone else now who I have a mututal flirtation going on with ( i know im being long winded but im getting to the good part) well he works with my AC. I dont think they see eachother often and since I was always kept such a secret by my AC I dont think he or anyone else who works with him knows that we were ever going out.
So Question 1: Am i just playing with fire here? If it should go beyond flirting should I some clean right away that I was seeing this other person? Will this just make me look like some slut or someone who is going with a better option because AC didnt know a good thing when he had it? I would never bad mouth AC to this new guy or anything I would just keep it at it didnt work out.
Question 2: How do I know that this guy isnt an AC also? I mean do we have to get so involved before we find out? Is EVERY guy who flirts AC? Is that just their M.O.? I just hadnt really had the AC experience before this last one, my past relationships started differently I guess. Like meeting someone and being asked on a date soon after, ya know? Ok sorry for the long post 🙂
@ Leonine
Thanks for your comments, I hope I’m not in for trauma, drama, stress and pain in the future as I really don’t enjoy it, but you’re probably right in that on some level I’m more comfortable with this than anything else as I grew up in a house full of it.
I can see that the relationship between the AC and the scary woman is the same as that between my father (EUM supremo) and scary stepmother. My stepmother was like a spitting cat when it came to competing with me for my father’s attention and guess what? 40 years later here I am again, only this time I am armed with knowledge and the help of this site. Thanks again.
@ Prickly
Great story and very uplifting to hear. Your comment about always having to ‘reel them in’ reminded me of something my stepmother said when advising me on how to deal with the AC’s hot and cold behaviour ‘they are scared deep down so you need to reel them in gently, I to do this with your father’ Subsequently both my Dad and the AC said ‘once a woman gets her hooks into you there is no escape’ – there is though a guaranteed future of pain and misery trying to please them.
NO, NO, NO -you should not have to reel them in at all, they should be splashing and swimming towards you with enthusiasm, no need for hooks at all.
“NO, NO, NO -you should not have to reel them in at all, they should be splashing and swimming towards you with enthusiasm, no need for hooks at all. ”
Sadthing, well said and what a great visual, thanks for that one. Love is supposed to be healthy fun and engaging, and not filled with weak efforts, disappointment and pain. And we are capable of deciding who we choose to share our time with.
sadthing,
please get away from these two quickly and quitely. Neither are any good for you – alone or together. What a horrible pair, and what a horrible r/s, and what a horrible way of going on. You really don’t need any part of that.
I understand that our upbringings have had a deep impact on how we recreate our relationships as adults – but, before now, we didn’t understand that. Certainly I didn’t. My parents have been together for over 54 years and, while they wouldn’t see each other hurt or ail, they hate each other on a day to day level. Like you, my expectation of what a r/s is going to be like comes from that…
But not now I understand the how and why of that; and, thanks to this site and its wonderful posters who are always so ready to share, I’m learning more and more all the time.
I now declare – hand on heart – that if the option is to live in a r/s like my parents (or many of the other relationships I’ve witnessed throughout my years) I’d rather stay by myself.
Actually, I like my life. I could do with earning a lot more money (lol) but, apart from that, I enjoy me, my daughter, our animals, getting out and about, writing, doing my own thing…
I hate what these eejits do to my life and how they make me feel – or, maybe, rather how I make me feel over a dopey nobody who was my own mental creation anyway.
I’m promising myself everyday now that the very MOMENT some guy makes me feel “maluky” in any way whatsoever, about anything at all – HE’S OUT. No more. I’m not working to clean up my life, self and mind just to let it be soiled again by a ninny of any description.
A friend and most certainly a Lover/Husband/Partner should add to life, not detract from it; not mar and disrupt it.
Will you please stay away from this man, sadthing, forever? Leave him to the awful creature screeching and scrawling around him right now – they deserve each other.
You deserve way, way better.
love, Leonine.
I don’t know how I came across this site, but I’m extremely thankful I did. I read NML’s articles on compatibility and interests and the EUM..and as I read, I had the sinking feeling that I was in a relationship with one. Many signs. Many symptoms. The message from the posts were to get the courage to leave this EU and not wait for him to. Well, at that time, my guy hadn’t spoken to me in a week…didn’t return calls or texts, or make any attempt to contact me. I had a tennis match and he didn’t come to support me, I was injured and known over FB and no contact…All this after several weeks of bliss…he had just told me he loved me the day before all contact stopped, we were making plans to do a bit of fun things in a couple of weeks…then all of a sudden he disappeared. That time was horrendous for me…the pain, the hurt…not knowing what I had done to cause him to go to this extreme…I mean he had done this before not talking after being angry, but he came back after 3 days. Now it was a week… I refused to believe that it may be a sign it was over…After all he had done this before, 3 days…maybe he needed more time, or so I thought. Finally I saw him at work (yes I work with him too) and he acted like nothing happened. Two days later, meeting up at a local bar, that’s when he decided to break it off with me. He said he did not want to be tied down…this was always there from the start of our 8months together. Every so often he pulled himself back from the relationship and thought he can’t continue knowing he doesn’t think it’s gonna go anywhere. We broke off twice before, but each time he came back and stayed. I let him because I wanted to be with him still. But in the 8 months of being together, he was hot …very charming and loving and nothing felt as good as when he was attentive to me, but he was also cold and went away for long periods of time if he was really angry or if he didn’t want to talk about something we didn’t talk…he didn’t follow through on plans, he always said ‘I’ll make it up to you” and never did, he disrespected me by changing or cancelling plans last minute and walked away when I got emotional or when I wanted to talk and he didnt…This last week of silence was the most disrespectful, because when asked why he didn’t call, he simply said I didn’t care. What’s worse is that we ended things saying hurtful things out of anger. I walked out, without saying what I wanted to say. And now, not only do I feel awful we broke up, I feel moreso that I want just one more time to talk to him, so that we can end on a good note…I emailed him asking for one last time, but as expected, he didn’t respond. I have been at home on these lovely lovely days of summer, not doing anything except staying in bed with my laptop… I came on this and other sites as my sources of comfort in the hopes of pearls of wisdom. Yes, I waited…I didn’t break up with him, I waited until he did…though I wasn’t surprised at its coming. So many signs of EU that I didn’t know about til I came onto this site, but who am I kidding…I’m not sure I would have had the strength or self-respect then to just break off. I realize my abandonment issues are there…I stayed because when he did show me ‘love’ and caring, I’ve hung onto that as my reason for staying…I guess I just CRAVE the love and affection, that I would stay to take what I could get.. and I stayed because, after reading all the posts here, I didn’t have the self-respect to do anything about it..because in my small mind ‘love’ was better than not having it. I realize it all now…in my mind anyway…and I will be on this site for constant constant reminder of what I need to keep in my brain, and not fall back into my delusional thinking. Part of me wants to make excuses for him (he really is a nice guy, he had no parents as models, etc etc) but I stop…I need to start thinking that he wasn’t as ‘wonderful’ as I made him out to be, but more importantly I need to start thinking about building my self-respect…which I’ve often wondered…How do you do that? How do you learn to love yourself? How do you learn to build that self respect to a healthy level? When your whole life of 46 years, you never knew how to do? Again I think I will be scouring this sight for some much needed comfort and wisdome and a slap upside my head if I need it. So please go ahead and slap me upside the head…if that’s what it takes. NC??? Well I’m one day in…I’ve re-thought the idea about meeting him again and I will let that idea go. I plan to leave my company (due to another job opportunity) so I won’t have to see him) and I plan to avoid him at the sportsclub or gym where we went together, at least for now. I feel numb, and I do break down in tears…but my mind says this is what I need to do. I’m so thankful for this site, and I’m thankful for seeing the posts by all of the women who had/have the courage to get on the right track…it’s my inspiration and support that I’m not alone. Wishing everyone the true love that we all deserve…
.-= Magenta´s last blog ..Threadless Tshirt Giveaway at jaypeeonline.net =-.
@ Magenta,
Be sure you follow the links and read the full description of what NC is defined as – an active choice, a physical block to any means he might have to contact you, by blocking his phone, filtering out his email to trash before ever knowing he emailed you, blocking his texts. The point is to never know if he *tried* to contact you. If you see he left a voice message or text, if you notice an email, even if you don’t read or hear the message, then that is not NC.
NC is about taking a stand. NC says to your inner self, “I am done.” No matter what he wants, I don’t care. “I don’t care if he changes, I don’t care if he mends his flaws, I don’t care if he left X and is ready to settle down with me.” You recognize that men, dysfunctional men, don’t change. And you recognize that, for the rest of your life, you cannot risk his contact or attention, because it *will* harm you.
NC is about healing. You accepted someone into your life that wasn’t suitable for the long term relationship you need. That is a problem, a well adjusted woman in charge of her own destiny, exercising her knowledge of what she needs would not have allowed herself to be distracted by eye candy, a sob story, or a fixer-upper that would be oh, so grateful if her loving could fix his problems. Shoes don’t stretch, the song goes, and men don’t change. NML points out the insecurity, the danger, the silliness of falling in love with what he could be, instead of rationally dealing with what he is.
NC lets you identify why you accepted this kind of dysfunction partner-prospect, and why you stayed when you should have known that what you wanted wasn’t in the works. Because you need to change that inner vision, rediscover the inner voice that screams “This guy ain’t got it! Run!”, you need NC to keep the past, the bozo, from distracting you from the work and self discovery you need.
NC helps put time and insight between yourself and the silliness of the past. As long as you wait on his input you are really deluding yourself that he will come around, that the dysfunction of the past will be mended, that even though you picked a perpetual dater with no concept or interest in anything beyond a dating relationship, that he might become prince charming. By leaving him in the picture, by keeping up the idea of a relationship with him you bind yourself, body and soul, to your dreams of what he might be – and you bind yourself into the pain and disappointment and delusions of the past.
So NC is a conscious choice to build a new you, one without bonds to that bozo. NC recognizes that you cannot afford to have him in your life. NC is a promise to yourself, to pick a mate-prospect that is suitable first, and only then will you pursue the important question of whether you enjoy making him happy.
NC is an important step toward self esteem. NC is a refusal to compromise what you know is right and what you need for the sake of someone that isn’t going to be happy with you anyway, or at least beyond the moment.
We talk about red flags and warnings. And we talk about boundaries. When one does something that steps across what we consider acceptable, we might enforce a boundary with a warning, “I was disappointed you didn’t show up last night. Lying to me about plans, failing to let me know when something comes up is very disrespectful, and feels as if you take me for granted.” But letting such things repeat – is not a boundary. A boundary has teeth. “I am sorry, your lack of consideration shows lack of character, lack of honor. I cannot trust or respect you or your word. Thanks for your time. Goodbye, please do not contact me again.” A boundary might trigger either a warning or an ending. Knowing and acting on boundaries is a very good way to discover and develop self esteem.
“Didn’t your mother tell you that it is the dates a girl walks home from that shows her mettle, not the ones she rides home from?” (Mike Shepherd, in a SF novel).
Value your own values and needs first. This is very, very scary stuff.
Best of luck!
.-= Brad K.´s last blog ..ps: Empowering girls, and self confidence =-.
@Brad
Wow…thanks for giving it straight up, and taking the time to do this. I take to heart how important NC is, and trust me, will read your post NML’s posts and all the others, over and over again, for strength and courage when I need…and that will likely be every day.
@NML
This site is such a blessing…its raw honesty and bang-on insights, the like of which I’ve NEVER EVER seen before…I’m day 2 NC. And never in my life did I get it until now. I’ve had AHA moments before, but WOW…reading your posts and the experiences of others REALLY puts all the disjointed pieces…puts EVERYTHING together me. I’m only now just starting to “get it”…the pieces are fitting…and now, for the first time in my life, I understand what seems to be the huge missing piece of the puzzle…the answer to my achilles heel. Funny enough, it feels like the windows have opened and I am breathing fresh air again, and look forward to ….discovering my life. I’m only just starting to feel a sense of empowerment that I never had before..it’s been a lifesaver. I still have a long road ahead of me…but thanks to you and your posts, I’m starting to get it…finally, after a lifetime…finally.
Your site has helped me get over my very long term trend of being with men who are bad for me.
I have decided to educate myself on how to get past choosing the wrong guys, and for now decide to be alone. I have not been in a real relationship in two years yet have been stringing myself along (and being pulled in by) a bad unrequited love for years.
I am very sad lately because I do not believe there are great guys out there. I cannot trust a guy- how he will be wonderful and pull me in only to turn out to be a jerk. I cannot trust a guy. I can only trust I will not involve myself with one.
I’ve been busy with a lot in life anyway so I have a lot that makes it easier being single, but as far as I recall I wanted a wonderful man to call my own and me all his.
I just don’t believe anymore. I don’t believe there are great guys at all.
I will value myself, and do what I want to help the world a better place alone by myself.
My heart wishes there were great guys. If there are, I don’t live on the right planet.
I do not feel broken in spirit. I do feel my dream guy bubble is burst. I’m very tired. Thank you for letting me get this out so I can get some sleep.
SadLady,
I am pretty sure that by the early twenties, most of the good guys have either found a mate – or stopped looking very hard. And that is what you are facing. Nothing that pairs you up in the singles market is likely to include all those men of good character that aren’t interested in dating as social recreation.
My recommendation is to continue as you plan, to stop dating for a couple years. But I think you will find someone in your community, if you get active in your community. Get to know the good people and important issues in your community, and let a few (happily married) women know when you are again interested in making a home and family. Call it networking, call it being active in your community. Or just call it healthy living. Focus on character issues, and honor and honesty, in your life and those around you. Don’t assume that any guy knows or understands any social rules or expectations, especially about dating. At the same time, run away, quickly, from any guys with slick lines, that are too easy to get to know – that are demonstrably focused on sex and not a shared life.
The guy boxing groceries, the guy in the back of the hardware store or ushering at worship service – that you never see where singles hang out. There are lots of candidates for a woman looking for a good man. Just be prepared to win his trust before you can get his attention. Keep everything based on respect and honor, and the worst that is likely is to win a friend.
Sleep tight, don’t let the bed bugs bite!
Thank you Brad, I appreciate greatly your insight.
I’m almost 33, and have lived so much I may as well be 80.
When, and if I ever, decide to date then being involved in local community service will be the way to go. I have no more fears of running from a guy who alerts my danger vibe now- I used to be a fixer and one who craved outside validation (“If I fix him, he will love me forever and then I will feel love for myself” kind of thing). No more. I have been loving myself okay for two months now. I have no wishes to have the past two guys be in my life due to their abuse, as well I will not let anyone remain in my world if they get out of line. This site has helped me realize that abusers can only change themselves (if one in a million chance they realize they are abusers). I don’t have time to waste on that project, nor energy.
I will kick away any prospect who turns out to have abusive signs, and I will practice daily healthy boundaries so I do not let myself get trapped again. I can get angry at me at times for staying with two of them for so long- but I was not the abuser just a sad confused girl with no boundaries and no idea of what love looks like. I do have a vague idea now, but trust that someone can meet that vague idea is low. I know I have been sucked into abuser-boy-land for the last decade so as I write this, haha, I think I need to go discover great-guy-land then maybe hope will return. For sure. 🙂
Where is great-guy-land? I need a map.
Thank you Brad, and thank you NML!!
xoxox
Thank you again, Brad.
Well these series are so great and insightful. I will share something that I am going through that scares me and some of my friends disagree with which makes me more scared and doubtful! I am 25 yrs old and I started seeing a man who’s 38 yrs old, has been in the servics for almost 20 yrs, he loves his family, has plans for his next career after he retires, respects me, treats me like a lady, encourages me, listens to me, he is kind and patient..the only “problem or problems” is that he is divorced and has a little boy. All my friends are telling me that I am better than that, including mom, that I should date a single man with no previous engagements, in the beggining I did not realy care about his history since he is now single and completely emotionally available but i cant lie, my friends are puting doubts on me. The other problem is that while he is not a bad looking man, he is definitely not what I would go for usually, he doesn’t have the athelic body that one dreams of or my friends tell me I could have..superficial?? yes it does sound that way..but when you have people constantly telling you you can do so much better it gets to you and you wonder. So I went from really liking him just for who he is a person to completely freaking out (maybe a lil bit of committment phobia happening here too, since I have dated EUM before)about settling too soon. You see I was in a really hurtful 3 yr relationship with a completely EUM last year and I just feel as though if i dont date more people and just settle that I may be misiing out on something..the whole package..ANY ADVICE OR COMMENTS???THANX
lil scare of love:
I dont want to seem harsh but i do think your friends and you to a certain degree are being very superficial about how you judge this man. Im 33 years old and I’ll tell you, if you have a good man that has all those nice qualities you say he has, go for it! And not for nothing but he has a son……not a disease. Alot of men may have “no baggage” (as your friends try to tell you) but then again– they aren’t responsible or mature enough to know what it takes to be in a serious relationship with someone not to mention how to really take care of a lady. It really comes down to what is more important to you. You dating this guy doesn’t mean you are accepting “less” or settling. In fact, I would say thats a bit insulting– not only to all divorced men who are now single dads but women too as if this makes them “damaged goods”. But if that is really how you feel and see the situation than to be honest……. this man is better off without you. If what you say about him is true— there are plenty of women out there who would be willing to date him and have no problems with it.
I question however, if you are being fair and giving 100% of yourself to this man if you are having these doubts? I question whether or not you are mature enough (at 25) to really understand what is important in finding a partner and not being so easily “swayed” by your friends?
Like I said, this is really up to you but it does sound like your friends and your mom etc…. are being a bit superficial. Most women come on this site because they have been with a man who hasnt treated them well…. i would hate for you to later regret having let go of someone who was treating you well over these really lame reasons.
Sorry– like i said, dont mean to be harsh but once again– you are treating this man like he is “damaged goods” just because he has been divorced and has a child and not really taking a look at the “bigger picture” and giving someone a chance who might really be sincere and genuine.
Good luck with your decision!
2much2handle:
I trully appreciate your time, advice and thoughts. Your way of looking at my situation is refreshing and it opens my eyes to things I have not thought of. It does bother me that my inmaturity allowed me to have outsiders potentially ruined what could be a great relationship.
Unfortunately, before i read your response I had told him that I was perhaps not ready for committment and may need time for me and to meet people before I can commit. He’s response was interesting he only said “ok sounds good”, i think is because I had told him about my fears before and he is not at a point where he desires to wait around. All I can do is wait to see what happens, I do believe what’s meant to b will b. Some of your words were a little harsh but needed:) Thank u again!