When we’re confronted with the realisation that our partner has done a U-turn on previously expressed feelings and plans, it’s understandable to feel horribly confused, disappointed, and more than a tad wounded. We may decide that it’s our fault and that something about us is unpalatable and rejectionable. We often jump to the conclusion that people don’t talk about their feelings or make plans with you unless they mean it, and then convince ourselves that we’ve provoked their current attitude and behaviour.
As an initial reaction, making it about us is to be expected. It’s our egos doing the talking and we subconsciously run through our mental Roladex of other unsavoury associations that we have with feeling less than, or being rejected, hurt, or disappointed, and end up reliving that pain. As an ongoing response or a typical habit, it’s dangerous.
If we don’t get conscious, aware, and present, and discern what’s going on, we make dodgy decisions and adjust our thinking and behaviour to accommodate the self-judgement. We try to influence and control their feelings and behaviour with people pleasing so that we get a rejection retraction and the preferred ending.
We are not going to solve a damn thing by taking ownership of their feelings and behaviour. It will muddy the waters even further – we won’t know where we end and they begin. It also sets a precedence that’s difficult to recover from if it’s not nipped in the bud. How is a remotely healthy relationship going to blossom, if each time we encounter problems and disappointment, we disappear into the past and lose ourselves? They also don’t end up having to account for the fact that they haven’t come up with the actions to go with the words; they’re sheltered from reality.
A U-turn in our relationship is an alarm bell symptom telling us to have an honest conversation with this person and to also check in with us and get grounded.
A relationship that’s going to go somewhere requires vulnerability and that at times means owning up when we’re scared and owning up when we’ve erred.
Once we decide to get into a relationship even when we know that we have certain things that we need to address, we must double our efforts to deal with that stuff rather than hoping that the other party will take it away or even anesthetise it. If they’ve done a U-turn and it’s not because they’re 10.8 on the Future Faker Richter scale with a penchant for pressing the reset button and instead, they’ve gotten carried away (possibly by their own hopes, lust or libido) and spoken/acted first then thought later and backtracked, that’s something they need to face up to and address, especially if they’re hoping to continue a relationship with us.
We potentially have something to work with if they haven’t made themselves out to be something they’re not (or reality is better) and they’re also not blaming their jitters and overestimating on us.
If they lack the self-awareness, they may end up dumping stuff on us in an effort to avoid feelings and thoughts, and that’s not fair. A person who can own up and make a concerted effort to address the issue makes for a better relationship co-pilot than somebody who is expecting us to, for example – make up for the fact that they had issues in a relationship with someone else.
We also need to acknowledge where we may have denied, rationalised and minimised any concerns, and if we’ve been swept up in being fast forwarded, we need to acknowledge our part in it because then, if we’re going to work at things, rather than going along with their speed to keep the peace despite concerns, we take ownership of how we want to feel and think about the well-being of the relationship and the team spirit of that, rather than being a passenger who doesn’t want to upset the driver. We then know that we have to go slower and become more mindful and be assertive in the relationship, and this way we know that we can trust ourselves and also get a sense of whether we can trust them.
We mustn’t hide away from the issue (or pretend the U-turn isn’t a U-turn) because we need to know where we stand.
If [their behaviour] is about fear, or miscommunication stemming from not knowing how to handle conflict or criticism, or it’s about the past, we can’t know whether there’s something to work with if we jump to conclusions and make it all about some ongoing narrative where we paint ourselves as an unworthy eff-up who always gets found out. They need to communicate.
We can’t be the relationship tutor or Florence Nightingale, or even spend our time trying to decipher what the hell is going on.
We might be scared. We possibly have our own conflict, criticism, or whatever issues but it doesn’t mean that we’re excused from being conscientious or from having to show up in our relationships. We can be empathetic but we also need to know our line. We matter too.
If they’re not cut out for anything beyond the beginning or for coming up with the deeds to match the talk, it’s better that we know sooner rather than later.
Disappointment is there, not to highlight something about our worth but to let us know where we need to adjust our expectations and come into reality. It lets us know what is and isn’t possible in that specific instance or in that type of situation. Of course it hurts but it also gives us a place to work from, something that denial and other forms of BS-ng ourselves don’t.
So, where do you go from a U-turn?
Make your concerns known. Yes it’s emotional in the sense that you’re both clearly feeling certain things and these are manifesting themselves in thoughts and actions but, it’s better to say, “I’ve noticed __________ and _____________ and that’s confusing to me because you said ______________” than, “You said that you were going to ____________ and you haven’t. Is it because I’m not good enough?”
Step up for you. The thing that we often find difficult to deal with is not about having tried or spoken up, but about having remained silent or inactive despite knowing at the time that there were niggling or even glaring concerns. Don’t just focus on what they need to do and trying to get them to change or adapt in order to make you feel better because you will end up being passive. Know your line, make sure that you have other things going on in your life and that you haven’t sacked off all of your friends, family or interests in order to get into this involvement or to focus on saving it.
Whatever it is that you’re expecting from them is also what you need to expect from you. If you want them to be vulnerable or to communicate, you do too. Often in these situations, because one person starts acting funny, the other person does it too and of course that just makes an already tricky situation much trickier. Know your line. Be authentic. Don’t play games. It’s better to let go of the relationship than let go of you.
Let go of the picture you and they have painted in your mind and come into reality. These situations put one or both of you on a pedestal and it’s hard to keep up with a fast forwarding pace. Take the U-turn as a warning to spend a bit more time getting to know each other and/or that you each need to learn the language of your relationship, so understanding each other’s position and how you each relate in certain situations, not so that you can pander to each other but so that learn how to work as a team and get the best out of each other.
Know when to fold. If it’s very early on in the proceedings, painful as it may be to acknowledge, they may have expressed certain sentiments and plans without the sincerity and reality to back it up. If this is a back and forth that’s been going on for some time, end the cycle before you throw up your life from too much riding of the rollercoaster of U-turns. Don’t let chasing return on investment blind you to a more pressing concern – that you’re in something that’s not working.
Less big, more small. U-turns often result from trying to supersize relationship efforts with words. This creates unrealistic expectations and internal panic. They’ve over-egged it. How about they focus on the less showy stuff and being present as opposed to rushing along? Some of these ‘big shows’ are a means of avoiding being vulnerable with the emotional stuff and truly showing up.
And let me repeat: Don’t make it all about you. Stop blaming you and don’t turn you into a performing seal trying to earn their devotion. You matter.
Your thoughts?
Add to favorites
This was right on time. I was just starting to get to know this guy and then…he started acting flaky. He was the one who said he wanted a relationship. I am proud on myself for deleting his number. No contact starts NOW. He has lost the privilege of being in my world. Thank you, for the confirmation of this blog. I appreciate him showing his natural a$$ early!
Good for you for dumping him! You saved yourself ALOT of time and heartache. My ex was also flaky in the beginning of our relationship. I started noticing it at about a month into it. I brought it up to him that it was a concern and he kept reassuring me that he was interested in me. I asked him friends about his feelings for me and they also said that he adored me and really liked me. But it wasn’t always consistent with his actions BUT sometimes it was and he’d be loving and sweet and SO into me. I was so confused. He was also wanted a relationship with me, I did not push it on him. My friends rationalized it and said “oh, you know how busy people are these days, don’t take it personally I’m sure he meant nothing by it.” or “Some people are just flaky and it’s just their nature, it doesn’t mean he is a bad guy or that he doesn’t like you.” So I just kept dating him even though more red flags popped up like a lack of empathy, calling his ex-girlfriends “crazy” or “psycho”, being rude consistently/demeaning remarks, actions not matching words, broken promises, flirting with EVERY girl (including my boss, his friend’s mom, his friend’s sister, his friends’ girlfriends), cheating, talking to and about his exes, blaming me for his hurtful actions, being mad at me for being upset/mad at him for something mean/hurtful he did and also being hot and cold. The list goes on. It was a rollercoaster. He told me he loved me and perpetuated saying it for a year only to take it back after we broke up and said he never meant it. He only said it because that’s what I wanted to hear. He also said “If you ever get pregnant, you might accidentally fall down the stairs.” All in all, I was emotionally and verbally abused. There were a lot of good times too but the good times got fewer and fewer the more the relationship went on which was a total of year and a half. I am a people pleaser and codependent so I know where I neglected myself and my role in the situation. I have been blaming myself incessantly for a long time because he dumped me and claimed no responsibility for any of his actions. I have internalized the blame he placed on me (he blamed me for so long I started to believe it. His friends also think that because I stayed and didn’t leave, that I deserved it) He thinks that somehow I provoked him to act the way he did. I am now the “crazy” ex whereas before he said he was SO glad to have finally found a SANE girl that was reasonable. Apparently now I am clingy and emotional too according to him. Interesting right? This article is helping me to try to stop taking the blame for his hurtful and soul destroying actions. My people pleasing and very low self esteem helped to keep me in a toxic relationship BUT his use of manipulation and mind games and everything else is still not acceptable. His complete lack of remorse and self-righteousness is mindblowing. The fact that he blames me for it all, was angry at me after the break up(for what I don’t know) talked bad about me to other people, played the victim, was less than polite to me(I had to see him at work)and got a kick out of seeing me hurt when he would flirt with my coworkers and be super charming and nice to them in front of me after the break up while being less than polite to me/ignoring me outright was just too much for me too bear. I kept thinking that I had to have done something to receive that kind of treatment and of course it made me feel worthless and a complete reject. I have left that job but I have a long way to go for healing. Baggage Reclaim is definitely helping me to get there. Thank you!
Bean,
He sounds like a narcissist or sadist or both! Please don’t blame yourself. There was nothing you could have done to bring about his behavior. I bet you if you talk to some of his crazy exes, he has probably done the same thing to all of them. Be happy that you got away and stop blaming yourself and try to heal from this toxic relationship. Yes we all have been there, but the great thing is you seem like you have a great soul and you will prevail and begin having the peace you deserve. Good Luck!
I always wondered why I seemed to constantly attract cheaters. Easy, I was attracted to them– because I knew they wouldn’t be clingy and therefore save me the trouble of doing the U Turn. When your lover does the Youie, you get sympathy and nobody calls you emtionally unavailable. I had to catch myself at it. Now I think I am ready for love…but it sure is harder to find now that I’ve developed some standards. 🙂
“Let go of the picture you and they have created in your mind and come into reality.”
Any tips on how to do this? Almost 2 weeks after finding out that my co-worker with whom I had an on-again, (mostly) off-again secret relationship with is dating another co-worker and I just can’t let go. I can’t stop thinking about all of the things I should’ve said. I can’t stop thinking about how he ignored me and often treated me like shit. I can’t get past the anger I have at him AND myself. I have been a sad, sorry mess for almost two weeks and when I look at it honestly, I’ve been sad about this guy for about 2 years.
I definitely made him into something he wasn’t. I don’t know why I did any of this stuff to myself! Is it because I was lonely? Did I imagine that he even liked me at all? I am normally a fairly smart woman but I feel like an idiot right now. I am going crazy and I should be able to get over this. I am struggling and I need some help with how to just LET. THIS. GO.
Over the past 2 weeks I have read and re-read so many BR posts and comments as well as The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship. I have also watched multiple TED talks about depression, letting go, finding happiness, etc. I have written him about 20 “unsent letters”. All of this and I STILL can’t stop thinking about everything.
I deleted his number and unfriended him on FB but I can’t stop wondering what he’s doing? Is he with her right now? Why did he tell me he couldn’t date a co-worker, only to end up dating one of the very girls I always felt I was “competing” with? Does he even notice I’m gone? Why do I even care? He was a jerk to me – so why do I still care???? I alternate these thoughts with beating myself up for allowing any of this to happen. Can anyone help me or give me tips? I am really hurting and I’m just kinda lost right now.
I would appreciate any advice 🙁
Figuringitout
I am so sorry you have to deal with this. I made the same mistake and its cost me about almost 4 years of pain. Its hard to get over it when you have to deal with the person and their latest conquest all the time. If you can, is there any way to transfer, work in an area where you don’t have to see him or her? I know if you’re older, it can be hard to find another position but that’s the easiest solution. Turn away from him when at all possible, get out, do something in your spare time to ease the loneliness. Look closely at why you were with him in the first place. With me, it was coming off of a bad, disrespectful rship with a local, intellectual and emotional starvation, zero support system, and wanting to be married again but being in a region where there simply are no suitable partners. I deal with the pain by emotionally distancing myself from my career, teaching myself new skills, keeping super active, and trying to meet better men during the summer months when there are more healthy folk in town. It’s going to take time and you have to find ways to distance yourself from the situation. Keep reading BR; it’s a wealth of information.
I’ve been (and largely still am) in the same situation. I don’t see him everyday but I do get copied in every daily email and then hear from him on the phone/conference calls almost daily.
You don’t say much about the relationship itself and how/why it ended. But as a general rule, it takes at least 50% of the time you were dating to get over someone (divide the time you were dating in two). It took me almost 1.5 years to get over an exEUM who is my co-worker still and is hitting on my colleague and who is also, atop of that, I am pretty sure, sleeping with our new colleague too. And did I mention he has a gf who he is in the process of dumping? And has been for the past…2 years?
I want to be absolutely honest: we never were facebook friends but I do still check his and his gf’s facebook pages regularly. I know it’s a shameful way of trying to control the possible pain that is to come when he finally marries one of the women he’s currently sleeping with (he’s getting pressured by his family to get married).
But this is the only thing that I do. He does not know this. And I know it’s a shameful admission and nothing to be proud of.
I think it was Suki who mentioned in the previous post that when someone does something shitty to us or proposes some outrageous something, we should get angry. So this maybe sick, but it helped me to think of him doing the exactly sex related things he did with me (and I with him) to other women. And telling those tender words to them. I don’t recommend this to everyone but it really helped me to get angry at the situation, to see how there’s no value behind that sex or words. That it’s totally disposable to him. And we, as women, were disposable too.
I also blocked him everywhere – phone, every chat and messenger except for work email (and I disabled our corporate chat). It took me lots and lots of crying. It also took changing a therapist and being cornered by her and being given closure by HER – he is never ever going to be with you and you with him; this story is OVER. I screamed like a wounded animal in the forest. It hurt SO MUCH.
Reading BR and talking to the wise ladies here helped tons.
The common thread to all of the above: listening to myself and giving myself every second of my attention. I also started doing this silly thing: I’d stop what I am doing a couple of times during the day and ask myself “What would I like to do now?”. It helps to check in with myself and also helps me feel appreciated by MYSELF. I think it’s the same principle behind, when you are on a date, asking yourself “Ok. How do I FEEL about this man I am here now with?”. Bringing the focus back to yourself.
I also started exercising more intensely. Last year was very bumpy in terms of finance for me so I had to cut going to the class/gym and started exercising with the help of Youtube videos 50% of the time. Now I am back on my feet and go to the gym as I used to. It really helps to get someone out of your head. Exercising has an impact on a hormonal level. And considering I have not been intimate with anyone after I broke it off with exEUM I really need this oxytocin or anything that is similar to it 🙂 I made new friends. But they happened only after I cut all the contact and started working on addressing my own patterns of thinking and behavior. I think it is very true that doing this, you start attracting different people, better suited to your values.
I also signed up for NML’s “Get out of stuck” mailings (it’s free and is GOLD!).
Figureitout,
Right now your ego is bruised and I understand. But what you have to realize is that a man that ignored you, treated you crap and kept your relationship a “secret” was not the person for you. You should not be suprised that he acted the way he did when he showed you who he was. Yes, it hurts, but once you get real with yourself the pain does subside. But you have to let go and forget about whether he cares about how he treated you. I can answer that for you–He does not care!! I don’t say this to be mean, but it reality. Once you accept the reality you can began to heal! Good Luck!
Thank you Noquay, Why, and Stephanie. I really appreciate your responses! It helps to not feel so alone.
I am still having such a hard time not thinking about and analyzing every little thing. I feel like I just can’t let things go. I am trying to keep busy and read every single article I can get my hands on but the thoughts keep creeping back in. The last time we slept together was last May. Because it was mostly a text (i.e. lazy communication) relationship, I didn’t get to see him often. He just sort of phased me out, I guess. He always had a million excuses as to why he couldn’t hang out. I had fooled myself into thinking that we were still “friends” because we continued to chat via text and private FB messages. He texted me the day before I found out about this other girl (which also happened to be Valentine’s Day)!!!!
So on some level I can see that I was foolishly waiting around for him. I know intellectually that this clearly was not a relationship in any true sense of the word, but I was blindsided by the fact that he is publicly in a relationship with another co-worker. He always told me he was adamantly against dating co-workers because he dated a few in the past and it didn’t end well. I thought this was his reason for being so secretive with me. I was OK with keeping things private because I too don’t like the Peyton Place gossip mill at work knowing about my private life. I allowed this and I fooled myself all along. I invented a relationship. Plain and simple.
I just want to stop ruminating. He has taken up enough of my time and my brainspace. We had a GREAT time together when we hung out, something he freely admits. But he is now having a great time with someone else and I’m sitting here like “what the hell happened?”
I did this to myself…he was surely a jerk for having sex with me on and off for 3 years when he KNEW how I felt and what I wanted, but I was a willing participant in this charade. I would like a lobotomy. Or some sort of pill to erase the past 3 years. I know I didn’t deserve this.
I feel like my friends that know about him are all sick of hearing me dissect everything. I will just continue to read every BR post and try to find these “Get Out of Stuck” mailings you spoke about.
Thanks again for the support.
Hey, these are questions I’ve had to ask myself, too. When we keep hurting ourselves, we gotta start digging within to find out why we keep doing ourselves in. Some nasty seeds were planted in our psyches somewhere during our formative years, and we keep trying to fix the wrongs of the past by recreating it in our present and trying to make it come out in our favor THIS time. We may not realize this…or I should say, we DO NOT realize this until we decide to get off the lather-rinse-repeat treadmill of dead-end relationships. We have to let go of these nothing relationships and figure out “Why am I doing this to myself?” Figuring things out takes work, and if one is not up to doing that work, then at least decide to put efforts into other things that are not emotionally harmful to you. Get off the treadmill.
And Nice, you have to stop the negative self-talk. I know I have to watch myself on that too. You did not “lose”. Those folks from your past were not worth holding on to. You want people who show you by their actions that they are on your side in life. Do you know how many people rush into coupledom and are coupled with people that tear them down on a regular basis???? Don’t think you missed the boat. But you need to look over future prospects with a new eye – not a “is he the one to save me from the unchosen list” mindset.
figuringitout – When I find myself in a similar state of mind I find it helpful to imagine my ‘dream’ come true where he gets down on bended knee, declares undying love and asks me to marry him. My response is a surprising always HELL NO! You may be handsome, sexy and charming, we may have had the best time ever when we hung out, but you are also a lying, cheating b*****d and definitely NOT what I want.
On bad days when I’m stuck obsessing negative thoughts I have a mantra that I repeat over and over: Lucky escape, lucky escape, lucky escape! In the end it brings a spring to my step.
Dear figuringitout, you said “ I can’t stop thinking about how he ignored me and often treated me like shit.”. Why did you keep going back to the well after the FIRST time he ignored you and treated you like shit…….? The reason we do that – we are trying to show how tolerant we are and maneuver things to the tipping point where the one-we-must-win-over falls in love with our tolerant asses….for we MUST win his affection…after putting up with all his rejection we have to prove to ourselves that the wait for his love was worth all the agony.
You wanted to WIN. Why did you turn this into a contest? Why was winning him worth everything to you, including your self-respect?
Those are the things you need to answer.
Elgie,
Though your post is not directed to me personally I have in the past attempted to answer these questions.
Why did you turn this into a contest?
I was good to him and he treated me like nothing a nobody and I wanted to him to see my worth.
I was nicer, better, prettier gave more than the other woman he was cheating with. I had to prove that.
Why was winning him worth everything to you including your self respect?
I had failed at every other relationship.
My dad left and didn’t look back.
My step dad made sexually advances my mum didn’t believe me he got to stay I lost again.
Exes before him all eums, losers and acs.
Who wants to admit they were losing again and couldn’t make a man stay on especially as the years are ticking by and all relationships have been unsuccessful so far.
Who wants their life to end and say no I have never had a good relationship.
I guess last chance saloon thinking creeps in and you feel you have to win at something.
I don’t think I had self respect to begin with I went back a few times after his cheating.
Even now he is not completely out of my life as I struggle to ground myself in reality and face it was my actions led me down a very dark road.
It is hard being stuck, it is a struggle to be no contact it is a struggle to think I suck at relationships that I am eum and I don’t know how to completely fix that.
It has also been two years for me since we split up and it still hurts sometimes I think I will be forever in stuck.
Nice, you say (in exact order):
1) “I had failed at every other relationship.
2) My dad left and didn’t look back.
3) My step dad made sexually advances my mum didn’t believe me he got to stay I lost again.”
Now because I teach mathematics let me correct the equation for you:
[Your dad abandoned you + your stepfather sexually abused you + your mother emotionally abandoned you = T H E Y failed you. ]
Do you understand dear? Once you got this cleared up everything will be fine.
Hughs, V.
nice, v
V, i love the way you put nice’s past into perspective. nice, I hope you are getting counselling, you soundvery depressed. I haven’t had a relationship work out either and I know how tough that can be. It’s not your fault and it’s not about you either. It’s all the wrong stuff you took on and what youmade it mean about you. It’s not about you, its their stuff. as for not having a relationship, you have onewithyourself, try to make it a good one and the rest will appear when its time. Have faith.
Nice,
You said “Who wants their life to end and say no I have never had a good relationship.” I totally understand where you are coming from.
I think you’re right, Elgie! I did want to win. I inadvertently joined his harem and wanted to win. I tried to be “cool” and not needy and OK with the arrangement as it was. Then when I finally said I wanted more, I couldn’t stand that he didn’t feel the same. So I guess I needed to prove somehow (to who? me? him? the universe?)that I was not wrong about things and I would prove it by waiting for him to come around. Insanity.
Figuring it out
As a fellow ruminator, (in all things), I feel your frustration, so i have noted some things I’ve learned that might help:
1) Rumination is simply a habitual pattern of behaviour that needs adjusting. Lots of people do it and it’s completely possible to change it.
2)Your thoughts are just thoughts. Your brain is going to have them whether you fight against it or not, so beating yourself up is only going to make it worse. Accept that this is just a natural function of your brain. Also, realising that you don’t have to buy into the story your thoughts are telling you. Taking pause and challenging each thought as to it’s validity can produce some interesting results!
3)Learning to move the focus from the ‘story’ and thoughts to the underlying emotions and feelings in your body when you have the thoughts is more productive. This is hard but will allow your body to experience the feelings it is trying to feel but that your mind will not allow to happen, (your excessive thoughts are trying to protect you from feeling painful things, for example powerlessness, worthlessness, rejection, abandonment etc). It’s a learned pattern that helped you at some point in your life but no longer serves you. You never learned how to handle emotions differently, so now you need to ‘re-parent’ yourself in this area, so to speak.
4)Until the emotions are fully felt, they won’t be processed and you will stay stuck in this place. Like everything in the body, emotions have a function and need to be felt. And they will not stop until they have been processed. Being able to first identify and name the emotion helps. Then focus on your physical body and see where you can feel it, (maybe stomach, heart throat or elsewhere). And simply allow those feelings to be there, and WITHOUT judgement. Let them know they can be there as long as they like! It’s scary because you will think that the horrible feelings will never end if you let them have free reign, but I guarantee you that they will.
REMEMBER just because you may be experiencing emotions of say, powerlessness, that does not mean that you are powerless. In your case, you have no power over this guy, but you do have power over yourself.
5)You need patience. It will likely take many conscious ‘sessions’ like this to see results, but it’s the only way to truly calm down the mind, or to feel calmer in the midst of a ‘mind-storm’, in my experience. Clearly it’s not practical to be fully engulfed in this when you’ve got a life to lead and focusing on your daily tasks with your whole being also helps. When you are completely present in the moment, your ruminating mind has no power, although it will try!).
Sounds like you have been doing this to some degree anyway, by checking in with yourself a few times a day which is great.
I have learned much of this through practicing Vipassana meditation, (sometimes called Insight Meditation) and mindfulness.
I have come to the conclusion that much of my suffering in life has come down to the fact that I have been unable to feel the uncomfortable feelings. No one likes them but they are a fact of life. I truly believe that by being able to allow whatever emotions come my way and to fully feel them in all their terrible glory, that I will have nothing really to fear anyomre and life will be far more fulfilling. I have genuinely been experiencing this change but it is most definitely a conscious choice followed by actions that must be taken EVERY.SINGLE.DAY. Every morning I DECIDE that, whatever happens in my day, I won’t fight off the experience, pleasant or unpleasant.
It’s not passivity and doesn’t mean that you don’t eventually take action. It is very empowering to know that you can actually handle anything that life throws at you because you can handle the emotional response. Because that’s what it all comes down to anyway doesn’t it? In every single action that a person takes, we’re all only trying to get more of the good feeling and avoid all the bad, (which is an impossible dream by the way). When the bad feelings becomes tolerable, then there is nothing that anyone can to do to you that you can’t handle!
Anyway, I hope you find some of this useful and good luck to you 🙂 x
Lochy,
Thank you so much for the advice! I will absolutely try some of these things starting today!
The “mind-storms” are exhausting, so some calm sounds nice. I think I have always been a ruminator and have had difficulty letting things go my whole life. What you have outlined above is a great place to start making some major changes.
I am so grateful to you and everyone else on here for taking the time to help out and offer advice. It has really been a godsend these past couple of weeks.
Thanks you again-I appreciate it more than you know!
XO
Lochy, I too practice vipassana meditation, and it really helps to just “look at” discomfort, without feeling the need to go into the story behind it, and essentially relive the story and thus go through more discomfort in a never-ending spiral. Glad for your comment on this!
Also, Byron Katie wrote a few books on how we get hooked on our stories, rather than just acknowledging the (fleeing) emotion behind them. Her book “Who would you be without your story?” helps to clarify the difference between the painful emotion, and the story behind it. I still have to work on that one a lot!
I’ve been told that the emotion itself (anger, rage, jealousy, insecurity, sadness) is fleeting, and stays in the body and mind less than a minute or two. It’s when I link into the story behind that sadness, that I can spin it out to last for hours and hours, day after day.
Love your perspective!
Lochy, this was so insightful and is really something I am struggling with personally. I know your advice was not addressed to me but I found it very helpful and wanted to thank you.
Thanks ladies, I don’t usually comment so I’m very pleased that I’ve been able to help. I do read BR regularly though and have found a great deal of comfort myself in the articles and comments so glad to pay it back. 🙂
I’ve heard of Byron Katie but not looked into her work so thanks for the tip Nina! I have a lot of time for a teacher called Tara Brach. She has a wonderful website with many hour long talks and guided meditations, freely available. She has a great sense of humour too! Another great tool we have at our disposal…the ability to laugh at ourselves, and life in general when it all gets a bit too much. One of my favourite sayings is “Not a shred of evidence exists to prove that life is serious!” Lol 😉
Love that Tara Brach quote! Another great one is from Western Buddhist Wes Nisker, who says “I may not be able to control my thoughts, but I’ve learned to ignore them.”
That one is on my fridge!
Lochy,
Thanks for sharing.
I’ve tried something similar to this method, but I only did it for a couple of days.
I have never thought of my ruminating, as a childhood coping skill, …my mind trying to protect me from pain….
That’s really interesting to me, as I identify with you and the other ladies.
Elgie & figuringitout:
the “I can’t stop thinking about how he ignored me/treated me like shit” this is your fuel for when you miss him. We’ve all been in the spot where we try to “win” and prove we can handle all his bs, “it’s really not that bad, etc” and trying to make him see, “look we’re good enough for you,” trying to win him over – but they never see it that way. They see that as us willing to compromise ourselves and do ANYTHING to make them happy.
When I fall into days where I miss my exEUM – I look at every single bad thing that happened in the relationship and it fires me up and fuels me to keep moving forward. You cannot forget all the bad and miss only the good times. If the relationship was that “good” you wouldn’t be here or having these problems or feeling the way you do! Keep forging ahead. It will get better. You will work through the pain and tears and sadness. The get out of stuck 21 day emails help A TON. I am slowly working through them – on day 16 currently re-working my beliefs. It amazes me that I have never honestly sat and looked at what I believe and why. It really is an eye opener.
Elgie is also right here. You have to COMPLETELY STOP with negatively talking to yourself. You have to be your own number one fan and cheerleader. YOU are more important than the EUM/AC. You matter! Your needs, wants and dreams in the relationship MATTER! If you bring your own self up and always have your own back, it helps matters so much. Stop negative thoughts and replace them with positives – all the small tasks you do, praise yourself! No matter how small! If you got out of bed, made it to the gym, made it 2 hours without thinking of him, congratulate yourself!! Keep propping yourself up! Part of my struggle in getting over my exEUM was my extremely low self worth and self esteem. Through BR and all of NML’s books – I’ve found that I and everyone on this site needs to be their own cheerleader because people out there (especially the EUM’s) WILL NOT do it. They won’t validate you. They don’t give a damn about us. And it’s hard to swallow and come to terms with that. It hurts really bad…but you’ve gotta come to terms with reality. Stay firmly planted here in reality and that also helps. See him for who he is and what the relationship was. I am a known fantasizer and day dreamer, who got the pants fast forwarded and future faked right off of her. I’ve made a point to remind myself throughout my day or whenever I catch myself missing the good times – to step back into reality. Stay strong! And I wish you the best of luck!
Look up “intimate betrayal” and “trauma bonding” and add them to your list. Your feelings are intense and real.
This has happened to me twice in a row lately. I’m not making their issues my own nor blaming myself but I really don’t get the need for guys to fast-forward and come on like gangbusters on the first date or the few days. It’s like they freak themselves out.
Diane, coming on like gang-busters should be a sign to you to NOT pursue anything beyond one date with that person, because it is an indication of someone who is emotionally unwise and trying to use romance as a “fix”. And it also says something about ourselves that we are so willing to fall so quickly. We want to believe we hit that elusive relationship “jackpot”.
Oh yeah, I never do. I wait to see if they put actions to words. I just find it really odd. The next time a guy does it to me I’m calling to call him on it right then and there and ask what he’s doing. I imagine I will get a deer-in-the-headlights look but whatever.
Great post, yet again.
My now ex-boyfriend (EUM) showed his true colours within the first five months of us dating, two years ago. Although we broke up (initially) I went into full Florence mode, subconsciously determined to save him and therefore hopefully be rewarded with the relationship I wanted.
My expectations were managed down; I bent over backwards to do everything on his terms; I thought that what was effectively walking on eggshells was actually a form of personal development on my part, ie practicing not having my ego engaged, being accepting of ‘what is’, ‘living in the now’, etc.
We got back together and broke up, continued sleeping together, most of the communication was by text, I would turn up to his place unannounced and I was convinced that because he was always happy to see me that he deep down really wanted a proper relationship but just wasn’t able (yet) to commit to it.
Long story short, after yet another attempt at being together, in Jan/Feb this year (ie very recently) for about a month, where I was yet again doing everything on his terms and being a perfect passenger, it still wasn’t enough.
He magic-ed an argument out of thin air, projected a whole bunch of cr*p onto me, then blamed me for being a moody drama queen (pot? kettle?) and it was suddenly More Clear Than Ever that I had to Just End It For Good.
And I feel soooo much lighter now.
Onwards and upwards. Putting me first. I deserve so much more than his crumbs, and I will never again let my expectations be lowered to that point, and never again minimise and justify away behaviour that is unacceptable, full stop!
🙂
Betty – Have we been dating the same man? I did everything on his terms as well, and as recently as Jan / Feb. And we were mostly on and sometimes off for a year and a half.
The manifesting an argument out of thin air was the part that really got me. That is exactly what happened to me last week. I read his text messages and thought wow – where did that come from?! I didn’t DO anything. Apparently going out with a group of friends – both guys and girls – for dinner is me seeking out male attention… I’m selfish, inconsiderate of his feelings, and will never change. And thus ensued long long text messages about the awfulness that is me. Mind you he was out of town that night, and he would have been invited to go to the same dinner I was going to… even though he wouldn’t have come, as he has never made any efforts to get to know any of my friends. I guess he expected me I’d stay home and longingly count the hours for his return…
And as another example of my selfishness so it was his son’s bday was yesterday and then day before the dinner. I researched and found cool presents on amazon for my ex to get – as he had delayed buying anything. It took me an hour to read reviews and settle on a good collection of things. Then the next day I also spent over an hour calling places for his son’s eggless birthday cake (allergies). How selfish am I?! I kept thinking all yesterday what a fool to yet again do what I could for him, only to have to blow up in my face.
I have been no contact since Monday. I think this was the last straw. It has to be because I cannot keep going on with the U-turns, me being blamed for nonsense, and feeling like I have to adjust all of my life just to make it work.
Good luck to you love! Stay Strong!
Wow, hd, that does sound very similar! I really like what you said about ‘being blamed for nonsense and feeling like I have to adjust all of my life just to make it work.’ That is so much my experience of the last two years.
The major difference is that my ex doesn’t even like to go out, ever! Every time it gets to the weekend, all he wants to do is ‘relax’ and stay at home and play the playstation. If he has a few groceries to buy, that will be his major trip out of the house for the weekend. He barely has any friends and even though when we were first together, he met mine, once we’d been going out about two months the excuses started as to why he couldn’t join me on social nights out. Even dinner out was too big a deal – because why would you pay money to eat out when you can just stay at home and have takeaway home delivered?
Seriously, even writing this, I’m thinking WHY DID I STAY?! We were just SO incompatible in our temperament. Not to mention that he made it really clear that he believes ‘relationships never work out’ and ‘you can’t trust anyone’ and ‘what’s the point?’ and ‘I never want to live with anyone’.
Yep, so glad I’ve woken up to myself.
And I’m glad you have too 🙂
Betty Yes! It seems to be control issues. He didn’t want to go out with you and your friends bc he didn’t have control over the situation, people, or you. He had to start acting like the loving care guy he wasn’t. My friends didn’t like mine bc he never made any effort to get to know them. He’s such an arrogant ass, and he would have a way of making people feel below him, I could never tell if that was intentional or just his demeanor… We would be invited to a social event and he would find things to complain about or he would schedule something of his own that he wanted to do and that we were going to do together instead of the original plan. It’s hard to when you get used to spending all of your time with this one person, that it’s hard to detach and look at the other things your missing by passive aggressive manipulative words and actions.
https://selfcarehaven.wordpress.com/2014/07/21/five-powerful-ways-abusive-narcissists-get-inside-your-head/
Bean, Figuringitout, Betty and Hd. I’m so sorry to learn how badly you’ve been hurt. Let’s face it there are a lot of people in this world that are just plain mean. I really don’t believe these folks should be labelled with a psychiatric term, unless it has been documented by a psychiatrist. People may manifest a few traits that are similar to the suspected term but that does mean the label assigned by their victim is accurate. Some men actually hate women. This hatred may be transferred from their relationships with their mothers or a female relative that raised them from early childhood. Very often this repressed anger that he/she is carrying all along shows itself after the relationship has gone on for a period of time. If they were to show you from day one how they really are you’d run if you had good sense, wouldn’t you? These guys may not deserve a label but there is definitely a serious problem going on that prevents them from copiloting a healthy rship with women. Instead of questioning what is wrong with him, you should be questioning yourselves as to why you stay for the inevitable abuse which deep in your heart you know you cannot control. Why must you feel that being a doormat and florencing will make them love you and treat you with love, care, respect and trust? It does not work. He will instead hate you MORE. You must recognize this fact (that you cannot change anyone else’s behavior) and make a hasty exit. Furthermore, it in within your rights as a human being to be treated well. It’s not a gift that they finally decide to bestow upon you because you’ve worked so hard and turned yourself inside out for them so now you deserve better treatment. That’s pure unadulterated BULL. If you love yourself and are invested in your own happiness and well being you will not stay and suffer abuse. No matter what he says, sometimes showing you his “good side” ( ” Oh, thank you Daddy”) which makes you happy you have to remember that it will not last. He just is not wired in such a way that he can make it last. No human being deserves to perpetually ride a roller coaster, to be persecuted by evil words and actions and to live in fear. We are all grown women. We’re not children anymore. Therefore, we should not allow ourselves to be controlled and manipulated by these men. When you take all the love and care you are giving to a devil in disguise, and when you give it all to YOU first, you will realize that what you are involved in is plain-out insane. That’s when you leave and NEVER engage with that individual again. Ladies, PLEASE kick them to the curb and LIVE in peace. Lastly, STOP sleeping with coworkers! It’s a very bad idea when it goes south and you’re left to suffer the consequences of your indiscretion. Be happy, healthy and love YOU.
You are 100% correct, Tinkerbell! You described it perfectly. And it IS insanity. Holding on to the hope that they will change or their feelings will change just makes it harder to let go in the end. I am going to keep reading this until it sinks in and I can answer some of the”whys” of it all.
P.S. I always had a strict policy about dating co-workers (it is actually a joke amongst some at the job who have tried to set me up with other people) I foolishly made him the exception. LESSON LEARNED. The hard way! Never ever ever EVER will I make that mistake again! EVER!!!! Ugh!
Nat, you really are truly brilliant (and a great writer to boot!). This is so helpful right now. I am still reeling from the u-turn that my ex-MM pulled on me in the fall, but in particular because I let him keep coming back only to sign up for the same shit again and again. I think I’ve heals on too long because I felt like there were mistakes I made and I wanted to undo them and see where things really lay, but in doing so, I was blinding myself from the reality of the situation and his feelings. Focusing too much on berating yourself for mistakes you may have made is so destructive, to yourself and your relationships. It is my new resolve to be more assertive and self-supportive in relationships going forward. Thank you Nat!
I had a rough week because of broken NC on Monday which ended badly. But I have been doing my CBT work hard the last couple days and really trying to get well! Today I had to have an email exchange that involved him (and others), but I was able to be calm, cool and distant. And it made me feel totally empowered! I will be so happy when this has become my habit for so long that I forget my weak days. And I feel that time is coming soon. It makes me realize that maybe 80% of my disappointment over this u-turn is sadness that we can’t be together, and 20% (or more) is embarrassment and shame over silly behaviours and self-flagellation for it. I’m done with that!
Thanks for this amazing post! Hope you are all having great days!!
Leanne. Your journey to greater self-acceptance, may be helped by your changing the way you think of him. Stop calling him “My MM”. He is married to another woman. He is not yours now, nor will he ever be. He is “The MM, or the MM with whom I’ve been involved”.
Those referring to “My EUM”, same thing. He’s not yours and will never be, just as with the MM. They are UNAVAILABLE and cannot be “My” to anyone. I think that when we change the way we refer to them, we’re able to change the way we see them in relation to ourselves. Simply, it’s a form of distancing yourself from them. It may be a small change, but whatever helps is worth the effort.
Really nice point, Tinkerbell. Language and the way we use it is both a sign of our thoughts AND an influence on them. Great point.
This is very relevant inexperienced this after 4 years when my kids entered my life and suddenly he didn’t think he could cope despite knowing about them, we were engaged but in the end he didn’t want that level of responsibility despite indicating he was that type of guy. But it has also made me think about how I responded to that situation from a place of insecurity and fear which along with his own insecuritities and fears made for meltdown. How I totally put him on a pedestal, pandered to his needs forgetting my own. I have put a lot of blame on myself, still do and have struggled to get over the hurt this has caused become real about the relationship and who he was. He moved quickly at first professing his love after 3 weeks, showing all his best sides and although I was freaked out also blown away. I am still processing the whole thing and building up to dating again 10 months on, he moved on after 4-5 weeks which was soul destroying. This post has helped my understanding of him and that situation. Thanks
I have been following BR for a couple of years now. I feel I need to talk about this U-turn stuff. I, just tonight, broke it off with a long term(3 1/2 yrs) relationship that has been, in reality, a roller-coaster ride. I am so angry and hurt I want to punch him in the face!! This man has been running hot&cold for almost 2 yrs now. When he is running hot, he is most loving and affectionate and would call me often, tell me how much he loved me, etc.. But when he turned cold he would distance himself, hardly call (we live 2 hrs apart and would see each other on weekends,get angry with me over the smallest of things but always make it my fault. I learned at one point, that he was still getting on dating sites. He has since denied doing that. Another time that he turned “cold” I learned that he was flirting around with an old girlfriend on FB. He always had excuses and justifications for what he did. He also calls himself very loyal. Many excuses had to do with “How I was behaving towards him” Other excuses minimized his behaviors. I would get angry and hurt and not talk to him. Them he would call and be loving again. Sometimes he would accuse me of playing games. No games, I was hurt. During these times he would also accuse me of being just like his last ex or even worse. I also come to realize that he talks to a couple of his ex’s on FB and he calls them “good people”. When he is angry and puts me down he would tell me that I was worse than they ever were. This behavior would last for a couple of weeks or so then he would “change” and become “hot” again. I felt so good when he was in this state. I felt loved. He even gave me an engagement ring a yr and 1/2 ago. We hadn’t made any real plans as far as getting married because of the distance thing and job issues but when he was “hot” he would talk often about us getting it together. But the past 5 months or so his “cold” times had become more and more frequent. He became angry with me more often and started making frequent statements about “ending it” I would ask him “Are you wanting to break it off?” He would say “wel it’s your decision if that what you want to do” He would turn it around on me and say that if I am so unhappy with him that I should find someone else, it didn’t matter to him. He also started accusing me of having affairs, or wanting to have affairs, and would get very verbally abusive, hang up on me and such.(I don’t do such things. I take my commitments seriously) This past weekend I went with my family to a concert but didn’t get back at the expected time he thought I should call. He called me and “went off” attacking me about being with another man. He would not let me explain anything and he hung up on me. I have maintained minimal contact all week with him but I was really hoping for an apology.He rarely apologized for any of his behaviors. What I got instead was angry, passive-aggressive BS that included how he had enough of my interrogating him and yelling at him. (Yes I did yell because I was so frustrated with his turning it all on me)This happened on Tuesday night. I sent him an e-mail trying to explain my side and feelings, no response. Today I received an e-mail asking me if I was going to go with him this weekend to a benefit, there was no mention by him of anything that happened. So I called him for the second time tonight to tell him I was not going and tried once more to talk about the things he said the past weekend and my feelings. He got angry immediately and said we should just back off of this relationship for a while. I told him “No, I want to either fix this or be done” He accused me of controlling him (which he has accused me of in the past too)then hung up on me. I sent him an e-mail ending the relationship. Right now I am so angry, hurt, and confused. I don’t feel that I have done anything wrong. I think he might very well be getting “close and chummy” with someone on the internet, don’t know for sure. I asked him that but he denied it. and called me a “nut-case” and that I’m confusing him with someone else. I love the good side of him but this other I can’t deal with. It’s so unfair. Please excuse the ramble but I am so confused right now. It’s A “What the hell happened” moment.
Nanner, please don’t go back to this relationship. Your story resonates so much with me in terms of the behaviour this man employs. I had the misfortune to become involved with someone who sounds very similar. Be assured he will be in contact with you – this is NOT over. Don’t think this contact from him is flattering or proof that he cares. It’s more likely he’s at a loose end and needs some attention and entertainment. You shouldn’t take that personally by the way – that’s how these kind of people operate with EVERYONE – it’s nothing to do with how YOU are and nothing to do with anything YOU did.
There ARE good men out there – don’t waste more of your time on this one. The only way is up now. I wish you all the best.
Nanner,
Frankly it sounds like he’s cheating on you, the way he’s accusing you of doing so, and telling you how loyal he is. I’ve never come across a cheater who doesn’t believe they are “loyal” to the person they’re cheating on!
But cheating or not, it’s good that you are walking away from someone who behaves as he does. Who needs that?!
Nanner, you sound just like I felt at the end of a long term relationship with an EUM/AC.
I dont know it for sure, but I feel he was cheating on me at the end. A lot of this projection. Hanging up on me, ignoring me for weeks. I realise now three years later all of that word behaviour was him trying to buy time. Staying in a relationship with me and sampling what else was out there. Pushing my hand to finish things with so he would be absolved from that responsibility and the ensuing guilt.
This will be over for you when you get to the point of realising nothing you do will make a difference. You sound like such a lovely person. Someone who would not do this to someone and so you cannot understand how someone would do it to you. Why not just end it with you? That is what you would think he would do.
Stop thinking about him. Think about how you feel. The weirdness and confusion is enough to step away and keep stepping away for good.
Bx
Wow, this couldn’t have been published at a better time. Thank you. I only wish I had read this about a year ago. I certainly take on all of it and try to perform to show I am still worthy of their love. The U-turn I experienced was so sudden I spent months trying to figure out why it happened.
Hi Nanner. I’ve been reading BR for approx. 2 years. This is my first time to post a comment. In reading your experience, it resonated. You should google the traits of narcissistic personality disorder. Idealisation, devaluation, shame (his) hence won’t ever speak about details of past relationships other than to insult his ex. Complete lack of empathy, and constant need for ‘support’ (yours). Narcissists are also known for grooming their next partner as soon as they realise the current one is ‘catching on’ to them and their irrational relationship traits. NPD is a disorder on a spectrum, so people can be affected a little or a lot, but it is a disorder that particularly shows itself in personal relationships. The aspect of your story that resonated was where, at his discretion alone, he can quickly move on after an episode, like quizzing you/expecting an explanation (as if you were a child) as to why you were home late…….. and raging (a trait of NPD) down the phone to you/hanging up – then in the following day(s), acting like it never happened with no remorse (another trait of NPD).
A friend led me to this site and I really wish I’d found it ages ago. Would have saved me from myself. Been in nightmare relationships since I was a teenager and never knew why. Three bad marriages with AC’s and more ugly relationships with EU’s and AC’s than I care to mention but this last one… oh my gosh… I think it was the worst,even though it was the shortest. I tried so hard to please him, take care of him and I was walking on eggshells every minute. A real trainwreck! Let him be in the drivers seat? Oh yeah. Right on point there and didn’t realize it until we finally had a major blow up and he disappeared for three days. Mind you, stupid me, I had been taking care of EVERYTHING.. He might as well have been my adult child but with a nasty attitude. He wasn’t working and spent most of his time on the computer and a phone I gave him :\ During the time he was gone… nope, he wouldn’t answer the phone. (major red flags everywhere)Suddenly I get a suicide “note” in a text. A total controlling move on his part. I got in touch with his family and a lady friend (red flag)he claims he cares sooo much about in another state to get in touch with him… he suddenly comes home. I’ve finally had enough because I get nothing but a cold shoulder and then a few crocodile tears. He starts packing, making phone calls… I check my phone records… a ton of calls to one number through the time he’s lived with me, lots of them on the day he left… ONE on the day, two minutes after I dropped his sorry butt off at his family’s house!! And the very next day after I had taken that phone back from him??? He had a NEW phone! What does that say about ME? I should have been direct and opened my mouth (respectfully in a kind but business like way?)the minute I started to feel like something wasn’t right in the very first week before I let that man move in because I felt sorry for him and his situation. If he had opened up or acted totally offended or gotten weird at the start so much could have been avoided.
Nanner, further….. the blaming you etc. is him ‘projecting’ another classic NPD trait that blatantly moves the cause of issues firmly away from him and over to you. It will always be “all your fault”. These people hold themselves in the highest regard (he is delusional and in this is genuinely convinced and adamant and will even brag about his values – e.g. announcing that he’s very loyal – yet he is checking out his options behind your back. Its a major head **** and partners can often come out of these ‘relationships’ with post traumatic stress disorder. Narcissists are charming and believable (as they are completely confident themselves in their delusional state), so they literally get away with murder! There is no cure for this disorder of the mind and even therapy is pointless. But take heart Namner, guys like this only go for 10s, i.e. girls who score 10 out of 10 who they consider to be TOP NOTCH as this reflects well on them (and it’s ALL about them). So he may be a looser, but he identified you as a WINNER. Get out and stay out of it and go forward knowing you’re a 10!
Oh my god… Chantilly, thank you, your posts about narcism hit the nail in the head and made me understand the behavior of the guy I was involved with.
At first I was the ideal woman etc., and he wanted to be together forever. Very very charming and wanting to give me everything I want. Of course he said he’s extremely loyal and all that stuff. He’s not even interested in relationships where the other person doesn’t want to be serious. When I asked about his past relationships, only thing I got out of him was oneliners blaming ex’s.
Then after a few months he dumped me, and got into a new serious (according to him) relationship immediately. As I wrote in the other topic about U-turns, I blew up when he told me about it (I made the mistake of agreeing to stay friends after break-up), as it was 2-3 weeks after he had broken up with me with the “reason” that circumstances just don’t meet for a relationship at this point, and it’s better he’s not in any romantic relationship. He really does like me very much.
When confronted with this, it was all suddenly my fault. I was a bitch who could not stand to see him happy with someone else. I was fixated on past. He was the bigger man and looking into the future. I was to blame that our relationship didn’t work. I was at fault for not wrapping up my previous relationship before wanting a new one (separated, paperwork is taking a long time, and he knew it). Then he backpedaled and said he had said from the start that he won’t start a serious relationship with someone already in a relationship. And I was also at fault for living with my mother (what does that have to do with this?). And for lying to him about my character.
Major head *** indeed. Any tips on how to spot this type early on before getting emotionally invested?
Shar, I too have had lots of damage of exactly the same kind done to me by narcissists! Several relationships (not all, tho), and I finally realized after doing a family inventory that two of my family members were narcissists. (one is deceased, the other I pulled the plug on)
An excellent book on narcissism is “Narcissistic Lovers.” There are also many excellent websites. You will be amazed at their insidious characteristics, and how manipulative they really are. And soon,you will have a self-proclaimed PhD, like I do (lol) in Narcissism, and you will be able to spot one after the first few things they say, just about.
I’ve completely rid myself of narcissists in my life; ex-lovers, a few so-called “friends,” and even my own sister, who I thought I was the closest person to the planet with, and who in reality treated me with decades of confused petulant, arrogant, entitled narcissism until I said “Enough” and pulled the plug.
My name here, Nonarchi, means “No narcs !”
You will be able to spot them in the future, and stay away!
Trying to heal after dealing with a narcissistic coworker led me to BR. I have now realized I am a daughter of a narcissistic mother. But no contact is not the path I am taking with my mother. Through BR writings I am learning how to navigate loving a narcissistic personality and still stake a claim to my own sense of self. This is new territory for me, but I love every successful step. I’ve learned that I am doing something well when the mother starts the questions – “When’d you buy that? Why did you want that? Where did you get that idea?” and so on. I’ve taken note of when she withholds and realize now that she is being indifferent because something I did is intimidating to her. I’m not totally in control yet, I still can be made to feel small by her actions. But now I recognize that some subtle cue from her has triggered my “feel small” reaction, and I now work on building my own sense of self when that happens. Recently, we were watching a movie together in her place, I had a hot flash and removed my sweater, revealing a sports bra. Mom got antagonistic over the weather – I said it will probably melt during tomorrow’s sun, she seemed to want to battle to the death that things would not melt. I said “We’ll both see in time”, but she sat there with thinly veiled anger. WTF? A few hours later, it dawned on me that my mother has always been envious of my bosom. She is flat-chested and I am more round. I wonder how many ways during my teen-age development did she cut me to the quick out of jealousy. For a few days after that I still continued to feeling low, couldn’t put my finger on how to stem the turmoil inside myself. So I still need to develop more coping mechanisms. But I count it as a success that I realized the conflict has nothing to do with me being “less than”.
Thanks Nina. I’ve been reading through some websites, and can clearly see the pattern there… I’m actually relieved that he left after experiencing the final outburst. And that it didn’t last long enough that the devaluation phase could really set in (he had just stopped being so attentive for a week or so before break-up). It could’ve been much worse.
But I do feel sorry for the new girl. I suppose can hope that she can fill the void in him. But somehow I very much doubt it. Well, either way that’s out of my hands.
First EUM and now a narcissist. Bad luck that 2 out of 2 first dating experiences turned like that. As someone posted, don’t consider it a relationship if it doesn’t last at least 6 months. 😉 That was good advice. So they’re dating experiences.
Well, I’m learning. I’m not as naive after these two as when I started dating. Although I’m around decade and half too late on stumbling into all the pitfalls of dating people usually fall into in their teens lol. (I got married very young, and it took 6 years after separation before I felt up for the idea of relationship again.)
I’ll keep reading BR to learn more about the scene and improve myself. 🙂 I won’t let a few rotten apples destroy my natural optimism and belief that overall people are good and trustworthy. But I will be a lot more cautious!
Its so amazing how I keep getting these updates and the subject matter is always what I am going through. thank you so much it helps me put things back into a reality check!
Thank you for the comments and support. I know what you are saying, but feelings get hard to deal with. I am very glad I did not marry him. I moved in with him a year ago for 4 months but it turned out to be similar behaviors. I was always wrong and the “Nut case”.
I am very discouraged right now because I am an older woman, (60), and have had 2 previous long-term marriages and one other long-term relationship, all turned out to be users, abusers, and very self absorbed. I lost a lot! I am also just tired of “starting over” Thanks again for the supportive words.
This is exactly why I didn’t give the ex-EUM another chance to screw me over again. If they have treated you bad and then try to come back playing like they care all of sudden, this is your chance to run and don’t get caught in the game again. I figured when he offered his “grand proposal” to have a relationship he was quite delusional since he had just left me for somebody else!
I knew he wasn’t thinking straight so I used that to make the decision for him! I helped him before he had the chance to do a U-turn (sarcasm)!! I knew it even if he didn’t that he was incapable of doing the things he claimed he could do because he was reacting because he felt out of control and he was the wrong person for me. He could never give me what I wanted in a relationship because he was a AC/EUM!
I’m grateful for my U-turn. He seriously broke my heart, but it needed breaking. I met him at work, he was in town for a couple days of meetings. We hit it off, met for drinks, had a great chat and hugged good-bye. Unbeknownst to both of us, we had fallen in love, but by this point he had flown back home. 3000 miles away.
We tried to maintain a relationship by texting. Lame. Doesn’t work. So he’d say things like ‘let’s travel together, let’s meet somewhere half way.’ He had me hook, line and sinker. But of course as soon as I tried to make plans, he would fall off the face of the earth – I’ve fully healed from the experience, but it still hurts my heart just writing that and this was 2 years ago. I thought we would be friends for life, but after he U-turned a few times, I had to walk. Hurt like hell, but it had to be done.
I’m glad he came into my life. He perfectly highlighted my penchant for unavailables and helped me to finally and firmly establish proper boundaries for myself….and it only took 40 years! I read your articles and books every step of the way, Natalie. Thank you.
Sometimes a proverbial kick in the teeth is precisely what the doctor ordered.
Like the movies “Brief Encounter” and “Bridges of Madison County”, some things are meant to be short-lived. They should be special memories and no one should suffer throughout life because of those moments. And we shouldn’t try to turn them into an everyday relationship.
I think U-Turns are different. U-turns are those things where someone was present in your everyday life for a few months, with promises to be even more permanent, then suddenly they blindside you and say they don’t want to be with you anymore. I can’t say I’ve ever experienced a U-turn, except with a female NPD coworker. I went from being her BFF to being hated inside of 20 minutes, after a year of friendliness. I’ve experienced a lot of EU men however, but the EU was always present, so no U-turning there, just one straight-road of unavailability.
Isn’t that what we’d like, really, a ‘Brief Encounter’ or ‘Bridges of Madison County’ ending where everybody’s left with their dignity and self worth intact? Accepting that something doesn’t/can’t work is the easy bit. It’s the WAY it fell apart that hurts and is difficult to deal with.
I couldn’t agree more Larissa.
Awesome post. V
Former Unavailable. Your story is a different one from what we customarily read. That is not to say that everyone has the same story. Not at all. But your experience and subsequent transformation gives hope to many of us. Thank you for sharing. Tink.
I learned my lesson a long time ago! When someone shows you their true colours take it for what it is. No one should ever be that special for you to disrespect or devalue your worth.
http://www.letitbetold101.blogspot.com
There hasn’t been just one U-turn, but several.
For almost two years this person has kept me hooked by blowing hot and then disappearing (and removing me from his contacts too). I never went after him when he did that, but after a few months of no contact – when I was not expecting it at all and my heart was still healing and I was thinking of him daily – he would suddenly make contact again. He would start by say things like ‘I know there is no excuse for my behaviour’, etc. as if recognising his responsibility… Yes, I know, all the things Natalie writes about, and more. I would tell him that he should leave me alone if not serious about me or not interested in a relationship. So he would make all the promises to change; every time it was all going to be different, just to end in the same way. And every time I told myself I was done. But emotionally I wasn’t. The pain was unbearable. If he had not come back, I would eventually been able to move on; I know I should have not let it be his decision and taken more active steps myself, but I did not feel able to. I was already using all my energy to stay away from him, not to seek answers from him, and live one day at a time. It got so bad last spring that I started feeling suicidal (he was the main trigger, but there was a lot else going on in my life too). I went for therapy, which helped immensely. I was lucky to find a very empathetic counsellor, I am nearly 44 but I felt like a child with her, who needed to be acknowledged, and accepted, and tought very basic self-care skills, which obviously I had never learned in the first place (I had always thought of myself as strong and independent, I live in a foreign country by myself, I do not drink, or smoke, I have no addictions, I eat healthily, I have never had causal relationships, etc. and yet here I was, unable to function, or hold any hope for the future). After a few months I started feeling a lot better; I was implementing the new skills everyday, making a habit of it. Stopping the negative self-talk. Learning to love myself unconditionally. Yet the shadow of this person was always there.
We met again, after a long time, towards the end of January this year. He had been consistently contacting me, talking about all sorts of things, showing an interest in my life. He invited me to his apartment, made lovely dinner for me, we watched a film, talked, held hands. Then I drove back to my house. He kept in touch after that, but I could see the withdrawing starting already; he was communicating how he was feeling (his fear), so I was getting this mixed message – ‘I need to keep you at a distance, but I want you in my life’. Then, of course, nothing again for a couple of weeks. Until, last night, he contacted me to let me know he was in the process of making important changes in his life (mainly dealing with his porn addiction), thanked me for being his inspiration, and said he wanted to be a better man for me. I had decided I would not respond if he contacted me, but he always manages to find a way in my cracks. We exchanged a few messages, then he removed me once again from his Skype contacts. So for the first time, this morning, I found the courage to send him this text, ‘I have noticed that you have removed me from your contacts once again. That’s fine. But let’s make it permanent this time. Do not contact me again’. Then proceeded to block him.
I am calm now, even numb. I know that a lot of pain that I was trying to keep away will now resurface. Hopefully I’ll be able to finish my grieving process for good. I wanted to write my story here both as a testimony to all that this blog is about, but also hoping to get some encouragement from the amazing readers.
RfC, I like the reply you gave him ‘I have noticed that you have removed me from your contacts once again. That’s fine. But let’s make it permanent this time. Do not contact me again’. Very classy and put together. I think you don’t give yourself enough credit – yes, you met with him and had dinner. But you also kept your calm. You did not lecture him on what was wrong with him or engage in any of those damaging activities. I think you’ve healed more than you realize. Thank you for sharing your story.
RFC. Agree with Why. You seem to have done some healing during NC even though it was initiated by him. While reading your post I was reminded of the man who beats his wife, putting her in the hospital and then comes crying and begging for her forgiveness because he will never do it again. Your involvement with him has not reached anywhere near that point. He may not even get physical with you, but he is still not worthy of you. He cannot be trusted. You don’t deserve his game playing. If it’s not intentional and he is confused about what he really wants, that still is not a reason for you to stay with him. He’s just wasting your precious time which you don’t have for the likes of him. Try to broaden your life goals. Develop friendships so you can be with others who enjoy your company. Find happiness in whatever way you can. You’ve shown yourself that YOU ARE capable of living without him. It takes a very long time to get over someone you thought you were in love with which is why he remains ever present in your mind. But
you can do it. I know what I’m suggesting may not be easy because you’re alone and in a land which may still be strange and different from your homeland but make an effort. You sound like a woman who is able to “get it together” and live a good life. Do it. Keep reading and posting on this blog. I promise you that doing so, in itself, will strengthen you to feel better.
@Tinkerbell,
reading your reply was very soothing. It is so lovely to feel heard!
Yes, I know I can live without him, but you are right when you think you love someone it takes a long time to get over them. But I will get there. Thank you also for your suggestions, I know I need to try to come out of my isolation and reach out more to people.
Reading BR (including the comments from the readers) is one of my ‘tituals’ for keeping sane
oops, ‘rituals’
outstanding reply. you write very well, too. am impressed. you are too good for this Loser. who is he to delete you from contacts, etc.?
@Used
thank you.
I think I had a bit of an insight last night. I must have failed to recognize his ignoring me as unacceptable, even if it hurt terribly, because being ignored was my default state as a child and teenager (particularly from my father).
This resonated with me RFC. I too put up with being ignored by all 3 men in the 3 relationships I have had.
I realised the last time that I put up with this was because my dad was never around. It felt normal for me to have a man in my life that was never around. To yearn for him but to carry on.
It made me realise I was emotionally unavailable myself.
Why,
thank you for your kind words. It’s funny, that was one of the ways he kept me hooked, by constantly telling me how ‘classy’ and ‘calm’ I was in dealing with him! Maybe if I had let out my inner screams, the whole thing would had ended much sooner… In any case, it is what it is. I can only try to move forward from where I am now. And maybe you are right – I had not thought of it – I may be further along the healing path than I realize. I hope so. Thank you 🙂
I meant ‘would have ended’, sorry for the typo
Reading the link on narcs that Spanish J added. And it made me realize that we tend to disregard our own feelings. Like letting people get away with bad behavior, meaning we had no standards for what we let people do around us. And then ruminating – that link had an interesting take on rumination. We keep turning it over in our minds for a number of reasons – i’m convinced a lot of us suffer from anxiety as most people do anyway PLUS we seek out people that make you more anxious because they lie, dont validate your normal feelings, always make you negotiate for things that dont need negotiation (e.g. how often you communicate or get together) etc.
So the next time you think why her not me, is he happy, what is he doing, why didn’t i do that thing when he, and i wonder if when he said that he really meant…
INSTEAD start repeating; these are OCD thoughts, these are not facts. They really are OCD thoughts. We are mistaking our out of control fantasy ruminations for something real. They’re not real.
WHen people behave badly they are telling you something about themselves.
Ah, Suki. So true: “always make you negotiate for things that dont need negotiation” (and the rest of what you’ve written is so true).
I get what you’re saying but for me personally it’d be destructive to say that these are OCD thoughts and are fantasy. Because it’s in a double negation in a way. I just don’t want to tell myself my thoughts don’t matter because he showed me they don’t matter too. Instead, I try to focus on breathing and LISTEN to those OCD thoughts and be present with them: I feel ugly (“is he with her/them because she’s prettier?”), I feel unloved (“is he happy in his new life?”), I feel rejected, I feel ignored. So that I can accept them as facts of MY REALITY (it does not have to be his reality – because most likely he was rejecting me from the very start) so that I can address them – how can I make myself feel sexy and desirable now? Go work out? This might help. Try on a new dress? Get my bands cut during the lunch break? Also, those obsessive thoughts help me hear the vulnerable points I have from childhood and then bring them to my therapist.
I understand what you’re saying but I just wanted to bring another focus on those OCD thoughts and obsessions. In the end, these thoughts of these men and their new women/lives tell US what WE are actually MISSING in our OWN lives. It’s not that we’re worried he’s happy without us. It’s that we’re unhappy without a person who treated us like crap being in our life.
My biggest fear right now is that although I now know that “people that make you more anxious because they lie, dont validate your normal feelings, always make you negotiate for things that dont need negotiation” is NOT NORMAL, I still am worried that I will only get that kind of relationships and partners. If I am being completely vulnerable and open now, my biggest fear that I will not interest a mature and healthy man or that I won’t meet him. I know it all stems from what an exEUM told me: you’re too needy, nobody (except for unemployed losers) can give you that much of attention etc etc. In short, I am worried that my new expectations are unrealistic. I worry that not waiting for 6 hours for someone to reply to your text message is too unrealistic indeed.
Although, I have to say, that I have a new friend (non-romantic). He calls when he says he will. When he cannot, he updates me (“I am stuck here for another xx minutes. Will get back to you”) and it takes him less than one minute and does not feel like a burden to him. I’ve known him for almost 9 months now and he’s been like this from day one. He’s not weak or a mother’s boy. He’s a very busy professional too. But somehow for him doing what he says he will or telling me why he did not is no biggie.
Another example was given to me by my therapist: one of her clients cannot remember any anniversaries or birthdays and is very reluctant to do so. But they are important for his wife. What he did is that he set dozens of notifications on his calendar that remind him to do those normal things: buy flowers, set up a special dinner etc. I think the common denominator in all of those examples is that you and your partner are actually a team. You want to make it happen. You WORK for it. Instead of engaging in a holy war of who cares less and whose schedule is the busiest.
@Why: I agree that you dont want to dismiss your rumination as just OCD thoughts thus invalidating yourself the way others might have done. But the AC/EU/parents/whoever didn’t just invalidate your ruminations – you ruminate because they invalidated your emotions and ideas before they even became ruminations. By not validating that uncomfortable or difficult thought and thus not resolving whatever serious problem you were having, you were left trying to puzzle it out by yourself and trying to over-think and over-rehearse so you could prepare yourself for the bad things no one would acknowledge (this I see as the start of my OCD in my early or pre-teens).
I think OCD thoughts can guide us to make some needed changes, but mostly what OCD thoughts are telling you is that you are having OCD thoughts. At least this is what I see with mine – I take pretty good care of myself which means that in between the time that i am working which I do a lot of, managing a social life, trying to at least keep the house somewhat functional, and trying to look nice etc, I never can relax because all the rest of the nooks and spaces of my life are filled with OCD thoughts, ruminations, anxieties about things I can’t control and need to let go of. So we might be talking about different types of thoughts.
The moment the thought is OCD or OCT (T is thought or tendencies, anxious people tend to have OCT) is when the content of the thought is irrelevant. So if you’re worried no one is going to fall for you so you get a new haircut – if that makes you feel attractive, then thats good. But most likely the thought is OCD because no matter how great you look and how much effort you put in, the thought doesnt go away. Thats what gives it the OC character. It is not fixable through action on its content, but only on its form.
Suki,
You are talking to Why, but you are talking about me.
These healing journeys are had work. It’s quite humbling, really…the more I know, the more I need to learn; certainly no room for one’s ego to fuss. I knew I had OCD, but I haven’t explored it quite, so directly…missing some knowledge. I’ve been attributing these OCD traits to other things, particularly to my high anxiety and PTSD. It’s a great deal to process. Thank you for the information.
Suki, I did not say that I get a new haircut and it “helps”. I said that I ask myself what those thoughts really try to convey to me, what are bigger fears behind them. And I then ask myself what little something I can do for myself to make it better. Right now. And then schedule an appointment with my therapist to talk about them in further detail. It’s a two fold approach. I am not that shallow to think that a haircut fixes obsessive thoughts.
@Suki,
I would also like to clarify that my fear is not that “nobody will fall for me”. Again, I hope my message did not convey that level of superficiality. I am not looking for someone to fall in love for me. I am looking for a mature relationship where two people can unfold and be vulnerable. The fear that I was describing is the one NML talks about in “Get out of stuck” – do these new values and expectations work? Don’t they mean I will alienate people? Can I trust my own (new) judgement?
It’s very far away from “hey, I am just scared no one’s gonna fall in love with me”. I am not fourteen. I have men “falling for me”. But it is of not much value for me. I don’t want to settle for this now. Now that I know what NML teaches us all. I hope this clarifies my position a bit.
@Why; i totally understand, my comments were not just directly to your thoughts, i was thinking aloud about thoughts vs. action more generally. I understood what you were saying about the haircut as an example of actually taking action rather than only staying in your thoughts.
I know what you mean.
I’m trying to be mindful of this problem and I’m taking control of my mind because I can really spin myself into tizzies: I can create great fantasies or anxiety producing horror stories. I’ve got a giant worry fish swimming around in my head. He, (yes he’s a male), got a hold of my central nervous system…you see, there I go again….
Grace, if you’re out there in BR Land, thanks for the tips about the crocheting, etc, and getting out of my head. I try to engage in activities that get me out of my head, or if I do ruminate I try to invite actual thinking about the solution, followed by taking action, as opposed to simply rehashing the ….
@ Suki
Without meaning to sound rude, Sally, have you considered changing your username? Labelling yourself a stress-head on this site, even when you’re writing about making positive changes in life, cannot be good for you, subconsciously! How about Stilly Sally or Mindful Sally? Just trying to help 😉
Hi Betty,
Good point. But,I like the name Sally-Stress-Head in a playful sense, and it expresses how I feel.
Yet, I understand what you are ‘saying.’ Yeah I might change it…yep…one day.
Betty,
Yep, that feels better. It’s time to move on; I’m not a stress-head.
Thank you 🙂
Betty. That’s right. You caught on my point immediately. The terms we use come from how we are thinking. And, how we’re thinking is the way we behave. When I first came to BR I chose the name Tinkerbell. I think I was attempting to escape from horrid reality at that time. Unconsciously wanting to be a sweet diminutive Disney character. I was in fantasy land which definitely contributed to my problems. Now, I hate the name because it doesn’t fit my thinking and behavior at all. I notice BR reader giving themselves names that I would think they’re hoping is a temporary situation and when they evolve from that place a name change is in order. Better to give yourself a name that indicates strength, conviction and calm and then aspire to be that person.
🙂 I like that name Malae-Mindful! Sally-stress-head is a great name too – its important to have some humor about anxiety. That might be the best way to deal with it really. ANd I do find it freeing to acknowledge this part of my life problem, to have it diagnosed, and to be able to say ‘seeing the ex EU is going to make me feel awful so I’m not going to do it even though that means stepping outside my social group’. To understand the intricacies of my mind and to be accepting of it to some extent – I need to push myself everyday to do all sorts of stressful things anyway, so why make that part of your social life too?
I think before I fully embraced that this part of my mental make up is just never going away and can only be managed or channeled, I would have put myself into very stressful social situations because of not being mindful, or feeling some sense of obligation. Now I put myself into stressful situations only if I need it for work etc,. no more stressful socializing, toxic friends, and so on. Owning up to being a stress head is freeing.
I guess I’m missing the boat. What does “Malae” mean is it another language besides English?
I miss Grace. Her comments were always so mindful. I hope she is having a great time whatever she is doing now.
Another brilliant post, NML! Thank you!
@figuringitout: “I can’t stop thinking about all of the things I should’ve said. I can’t stop thinking about how he ignored me and often treated me like shit. I can’t get past the anger I have at him AND myself.” This is how I am currently. I have been NC for almost 2 weeks with the ex EUM/AC and even though I do feel better and do not want to speak to him, I am STILL going over a lot of what happened. I know that I was lonely, I have very low self esteem, and I bought into the fantasy. But I still rack my brain over everything. Was it ALL a lie? Did he ever care about me? Was I just something to pass the time? Did I help build him up for his new gf/relationship? Why did I let him treat me so horribly? Ugh!!
I know I had a part in things but it still makes me so angry that he can go on like nothing ever happened. Like he is guilt free. Keeping our year long ‘relationship’ a secret and now he is very open about this new girl.
Saturdays are the worst days for me because that is the day he goes to see her and have their dates (she lives an hour and a half away from him). Plus knowing how he is probably being with her. Blowing SUPER hot as they ALL do in the beginning. Acting as if he is some amazing, mature guy! HA! I feel sorry for her. She has no idea what he is really like. As NML says, they use their best representative in the beginning. One day he will unfold and she will see how selfish and cold he can be. Never thinks he is to blame for anything. Like the other week when he said I “take everything so personally”. Um…yeah I do. When someone who claims to still be my ‘friend’ and claims to care about me, treats me as if I am a part time friend, ego stroke, and only talks to me when he wants attention or is bored..YES I do take THAT personally!
But I know…I don’t need to think about their relationship. I shouldn’t care what he is doing. It is over with he and I. I have been keeping busy as best as I can lately and it has helped some. I am analyzing myself and my part in this and it has been difficult BUT needed. I hope all of you are having a better weekend than I am lol. Hugs to you all and stay strong!
Cinders, this is interesting. It’s a new kind of mind f*ck that an exEUM tried to pull with me at work twice for the past month too. Saying I take things too personally.
I know it’s not true as in many years of my career the only thing people complained about was that I am actually absolutely non-personal and really care about the project only and behave a bit like a robot (aka don’t gossip or talk about my relationships during lunch break).
But I am wondering what this “don’t take it too personally” means in EUM speak..? Like, please don’t hold me accountable for my words and don’t put any expectations on me ’cause I can’t stand it because then I still cannot follow through and have to face the truth of being an asshole. Is it the logic?
@Why: Yes, I too think it is a new mind f*ck. He has ALWAYS hated it when I would talk to him about something that was bothering me. Because it usually involved HIM. He hates to feel guilty about anything he does that is wrong, hurtful or sh*tty. Plus that night he sent that text to me (lazy communication: Red Flag), he wanted to know what was wrong with me UNTIL he saw that it was “too serious for text”. Then he made excuses as for why he couldn’t talk to me that week. They are ALWAYS so busy. *eye roll*
When I was going through the pregnancy and told him straight away about it, he was colder than a snowman in the North Pole. Accused me of trying to “drag him into being a Dad”, when ALL I wanted was time to decide what to do about it and his support. And when I miscarried, he was sweeter than pie. Telling me he wished he could be there to hug me, told me it “actually hurts deep inside”, blah blah blah. He never let me talk about the loss. He refused to ever talk about it again because we both knew it had happened and there was “no point”. Him telling me I “take everything personally”? You bet your arse I do! I have a lot of reasons to take things personally.
Cinders,
Sounds like we were involved with the same guy and I too have been NC for 2 weeks. 2 loooong and depressing weeks.
This part of your post struck me to the core:
“I am STILL going over a lot of what happened. I know that I was lonely, I have very low self esteem, and I bought into the fantasy. But I still rack my brain over everything. Was it ALL a lie? Did he ever care about me? Was I just something to pass the time? Did I help build him up for his new gf/relationship? Why did I let him treat me so horribly? Ugh!!
I know I had a part in things but it still makes me so angry that he can go on like nothing ever happened. Like he is guilt free. Keeping our year long ‘relationship’ a secret and now he is very open about this new girl.”
I feel the EXACT same way. So much so that it is scary. Especially “was it ALL a lie?”
I was also always the one at fault – he was never to blame and I was “too sensitive”. It’s like we were with the same guy!
He stood me up a few times. After I “reacted poorly” (his words) he told me he purposely never makes plans with me in advance in case he can’t make it. Seriously? First off, who is happy to get stood up? Secondly, here’s an idea: when you make plans with someone, you should honor those plans! Lastly, I allowed myself to be relegated to last minute girl because of HIS poor behavior!!! He genuinely thought standing someone up and/or canceling out at the last minute was OK and punished me by never making plans in advance because of my “poor reaction”!!! He made happy hour and party plans with other people with ease. It’s hard to NOT take that personally. I am seeing the ridiculousness of it all after so much reflection over these 2 weeks.
I have been keeping busy as well and just kind of allowing things to unfold. There have been many, many, MANY tears and a lot of anger. Instead of acting tough and pushing those feelings down, which is my normal coping mechanism, I am allowing myself to be a sad mess. I need to really feel these things. I think that I have been EU myself, just in a different way than him.
Letting go of any hope has been the hardest. It is done. We will never be together. Nor will we be “friends”. I don’t want a friend who only wants me around when he’s bored or needs an ego boost.
I signed up for the “Get Out of Stuck” emails someone suggested above. Today is Day 2 – hoping this helps. I am finding this site and the support from everyone has been helpful as well.
I hope your weekend improved. I will be thinking of you as we are kind of in this together. Hugs to you too!!!
XO.
@figuringitout:
Yeah they do sound like the same man. Maybe long lost twins? These guys are very skilled in the art of turning things around on us. Making excuses for their behavior. They never want to accept any blame. They actually think THEY are the victims and we are just TOO demanding or too sensitive. All I ever asked for was honesty and not to be used. HA! I was naïve and ignored all the flags flying in my face. Just like his new gf is. The fact that he is 31, been living with his parents for the past 3-4 years and stays home most night just to play computer games should’ve been enough of a Red Flag for me AND her. But oh well. He’s her problem now. Maybe she will be like me and think she can handle it. Or maybe she is EU as well. I wouldn’t be surprised.
Anyway, I know how you feel. It has been a VERY long 2 weeks and I am still angry (can you tell? lol) and honestly still very hurt and somewhat sad. I hope you’re staying strong and keeping busy. Baby steps! The support from you and all the other ladies (and some men) helps me so much. Natalie’s posts are always amazing and insightful. I’m ready for spring so I can get out more and away from my computer. It’s hard knowing that he is at his most days as well and just going on with his life like nothing happened.
Big hugs to you Figuringitout and all the other BR readers! xo
@ cinders and figure
Can I join in? I have a similar issue with my bf. Whenever I try to complain about anything in the relationship it’s one of two things. First is he puts me off – says it’s not a good time to discuss, changes the subject, etc. the second thing is he makes excuses, accuses me of being too sensitive, etc. He tried calling me and my daughter sensitive today even though I wasn’t saying anything negative – I was just sitting there. I told him how it’s funny my daughter and I are only sensitive with him. That shut him up pretty fast.
I tried to go out to eat him him and the funny thing is, every time I tried to talk he turn around, looked up, walked away, etc. I pulled out a book and started reading instead. He asked what’s up and I mentioned it to him and he said he had no idea but did it again that same day.
I’m getting so fed up but I don’t feel I have the support I need just yet IRL to make he changes I need to ask him to move out, etc. Working on that first.
Allison,
I feel your pain. I think it is so sad that so many of us have dated the same kind of boy. And yes, I say “boys” because they are certainly not men!
I wish I could help, but I have zero answers at this point. Being put off, hearing excuses, having the subject change, or the tables turned around on you feels horrible. Been there done that. Then you leave feeling confused and like you missed an opportunity for real communication.
I was told I was “being ridiculous” as well as being too sensitive on several occasions. He once wrote me a long private FB message and told me that I was the opposite of the confident woman I pretended to be. Craziest part is, I started to believe him! I felt like I actually WAS over-reacting when he chose me last over his harem. I felt like I was going crazy and I was reading into things too much. It was a real mindf##k!
Perhaps you need to just sit down with him and have a heart-to-heart? A REAL talk. It will be a difficult conversation but it might help to just get it all out once and for all. At least you will know where you stand. Don’t waste any more time – you will regret the time you wasted no matter what the outcome.
I wish I could offer better answers or insight for you, but I’m a little lost myself. Keep coming here to BR – the posts are great and the comments and support have been helpful.
It sounds like you have a tough situation there and you may have a tough road ahead of you. I wish you the best of luck…I will be thinking of you and the others who are hurting right now. (((HUGS)))
XO
@figuringitout
Thank you for the kind words. I know what I should do but just not quite ready to yet as the EUM does have a lot of good points too. It would also be a big change to my life to be back on my own, move, etc. without much of a support system.
It’s just nice seeing the same situation in some of the posts as it makes me remember what I need to work towards. I need to go out, make new friends, get my life back on track so I feel better about doing NC.
@Bean,
It sounds like you were dating a narcissist! You should google terms such as “narcissistic abuse”, “narcissistic hoovering”, “gaslighting”, “narcissistic” triangulation. Also names such as Kaleah LaRoche, Melanie Tonia Evans, Kim Saee, Sam Vaknin and Carrie Reimer – they have great blogs and Youtube videos on NPD, including advice for victims, and I am pretty sure you’ll recognise your ex’s patterns! Good luck:-)
This is exactly my last relationship! He rushed into telling me he loved me and wanted to spend his life with me, after only 3 weeks…he didnt take me in his arms look into my eyes and tel me, he posted it on Facebook! He was going to relocate to be near me… The day after Christmas I made a comment about a very young (he was 50) cleavage bearing female flirting with him on Facebook and he used that as his excuse to be angry with me and not talk to me for days, he broke up with me via email a few days later! These men are such cowards.
Lori. Was that a “relationship”? A few weeks on Facebook, him living LD and breaking up with you via email? Really? Be glad he broke it off. That leaves you free to find someone mentally stable and emotionally mature. Don’t even consider it a relationship until after 6 months, minimum of no BS. After 3-4 months is usually when they start slipping up and showing who they really are.
Wow. I wish I had this knowledge a year ago! I am totally guilty of being aware of a u-turn and making it all about me. Then the fear/self doubt set in, and instead of being transparent and rationally talking about the confusion, I became very scared of losing what I thought I had, and started trying to control him. A year of trying to control him later… he officially hates me. And now I’ll never know if, perhaps with a productive conversation about self awareness and setting boundaries/expectations, if we could have developed a healthy relationship where both partners were driving. Or, it would have revealed that he wasn’t capable of giving me what he had promised, and I could have decided whether or not what he was truly capable of was something I wanted.
We live and we learn, right? Haha, I have to focus on that, or else I’ll be filled with regret and self loathing :\
J, I’d like to warn you about this “perhaps with a productive conversation about self awareness and setting boundaries/expectations, if we could have developed a healthy relationship where both partners were driving” – this sounds like even post-relationship you still think that by modifying your behavior you’d have changed him. Nope. The relationship might have ended earlier, that is the only thing you could have influenced. You do not have magical powers to convert other people from what they are. The way one treats their partner in a relationship is their choice and responsibility. There’s no magical word you could have said that would have opened his eyes.
Yes, Why, I absolutely agree. I was vulnerable with my ex, and I told him how I felt about his U-turn. Now, I own my snarky-flight-response after he ignored my mature, open approach; I behaved badly…so immature. I need to forgive myself for acting like a mean girl, but, on the other hand, I ultimately protected myself by ending the relationship with this bully, who figuratively tried to run me over with his car in response to me merely spitting on his car windows. I was immature and hurtful. He has a bad temper and is dangerous. In my next relationship, I won’t say mean things to my partner. I’ll watch my mouth. I have a bad habit of really firing off mean, unfiltered remarks, which I later regret, and wish I could amend. BUT, next time, if a man ignores me when I’m being vulnerable in my attempt to talk to him about something, or he tries to fast forward me, or jump my boundaries, it’s a deal breaker for me.
If he doesn’t have the ability to be the slightest bit vulnerable and openly commuicate, I’m.out.end.of.goodbye.
J, I agree with Why. If one even needs to have a convo with someone about setting boundaries, then there’s some red flag flapping. Shouldn’t that be a given, that healthy boundaries are the norm, the standard, the default? Not something that has to be talked through? I think his u-turn actions showed very clearly who he was, sadly.
Cinders. I would like to know what in your mind you feel you are accomplishing by fixating on his connection with the OW. What does it do for you? You must be gaining something that nobody else can see because you will not leave it alone. If it makes you angrier so that you can maintain NC, you would just maintain NC without ruminating over him and her.
I don’t have any answers to that question, Tinkerbell. It doesn’t do anything for me. I’ve only known about his OW for a couple weeks. All I can say is that it is still very hurtful. Being told to my face that he doesn’t want a relationship with anyone and then finding out that a month and a half later, was on some dating site & started dating this new girl.
I’m not sitting around fixating on them but I would be lying if I said that I don’t think about them at some point during most days. All I can say is that I AM trying. I’m staying as busy as I can. I’m reading BR posts and all of the comments. I’m on 2 weeks NC and I am sticking with it.
Okay, Cinders. Thank God you are sticking with NC and not weakening. I asked you that question, in an effort to get you to see the futility of obsessing. Thinking about and talking about him and her is NOT GOING TO CHANGE he situation. You know this. It’s as if you’re using what he is doing as some sort of self-punishment for failing? Failing what? Not being able to keep him? I guess I’m trying to understand because this obsession you have is mystifying to me. It is so foreign to my psyche. When a person hurts me whether it’s one incident or ongoing mistreatment like I suffered with the ex-MM, I get away. I make a total retreat MENTALLY as well as physically. I’ve always had a very strong mind, which is a blessing because I am exceedingly emotional. I “go all in” with people. Years ago and long before BR I got hurt many times because I trusted the wrong people. I didn’t dig into who they really where and had the attitude that everyone will treat me well. But, now I pull back quickly when a person acts just a little shady and I study her/him and how they are behaving toward me. Now I am able to much better reign in my feelings and not waste my precious brain wishing for a different outcome or hoping that person will have an epiphany and see how good I am and follow suit. I can command my heart to just “Stop It”. It may not be immediately a complete process, but I refuse to ruminate over lost causes.
I’m not saying that I cannot be hurt anymore but I’m much better able to control how much I’m impacted by hurtful actions or callous, inconsiderate people. You need to toughen up, honey. Life is full of disappointments, hurt and pain. You need to be able to somehow cut through all of that and even though, it seems unlikely, try to find your own joy.
You’re very lucky that you can do that. I don’t know how to fully stop thinking about it. Some days it’s not so bad but as I said earlier, Saturdays are VERY difficult for me. I do know that I don’t do it as a form of punishment for myself. No one deserves to have someone treat them the way he has treated me. And I also know that I don’t want him back. I guess I am just ‘stuck’ on trying to wrap my brain around this relationship he is pursuing. Even though I know that he IS EU and has some narc tendencies. I’ve read a lot of NML’s posts about EU people. I need to get her books sometime as well.
I know I need to toughen up and that sh*tty things happen to good people every day. I know it’s a lost cause. Maybe it’s because this recently happened and it’s shocked & hurt me to my core. I’ve never been used and tossed aside like rubbish before. I thought better of him and truly thought he cared more about me than he obviously does. Silly me.
All I can do is keep trying every day. Keep myself busy. Work on myself. Right now it’s just baby steps for me. I refuse to break NC. I’ve been weak enough with him.
Cinders,
It just takes time. Don’t be hard on yourself and don’t pressure yourself into forgetting and feeling better. Busy or not, you are still thinking of him. And yes, weekends were the hardest for me in the first 3 months after the breakup.
I know it doesn’t help much right now. That’s what people told when I just came on board one year ago. Time helps. Gently remind yourself and pat on the back that it’s okay experiencing all these feelings. Don’t rush yourself. Feel everything and process. Time will naturally lead you where you need to be. There is no fast-forwarding to healing, unfortunately.
I am glad you found BR. I still come back here regularly. It helps rebuilding my self-esteem and focusing on me. No more venting and ruminating about the ex. That part is done. I still think of him and have my bad days, but now I am fully focusing on me only. And that takes time to do too. Because at first you are focusing on him only when you are going through the first stages of grieving.
It’s all normal. Take your time. We are here to support you.
Sofia~
Thank you very much for your kind words and support. I have days where I still cry at some point but I have noticed that it’s not as often as it was. I keep reading various posts (and all the comments) here on BR and it has helped me so much. I am letting myself feel every emotion and I have been a lot kinder to myself for everything that I allowed to happen. I allowed him to treat me like a doormat. When he would disappear on me for days (sometimes weeks), I just assumed he was ‘depressed’ or ‘too busy’ to call me, let alone message me. Pfft. No one is TOO busy for people they truly care about.
Staying busy with reading, volunteering, etc is helping as well. I’m fully focused on ME now. Making myself better and focusing on building up my self-esteem as well. I still think of him but I know each day it will be a little less than the day before. We can’t all be blessed with an internal off switch like these EUM/AC’s! Lol.
I can’t thank you all enough for your support and advice! I will be sticking around BR and reading all I can from Natalie and all of you.
My heart goes out for you Cinders, that is so rotten situation to be in. It’s not the break-up that hurts so much, but that you were lied to, right? I really don’t get these guys who say that they don’t want a relationship with anyone to end it, and then immediately jump for next one! The one I was involved with recently did the same. :/
Please stop dwelling on it. It’s very likely that he’s not giving you as much as a thought (unless it feeds his ego that you’re hurting). I wish I could give you any suggestions exactly how to stop ruminating over it. For me it took the realization that the face he showed me was fake all along, and only when things got to confrontation did he show his true face. Then I could stop thinking about him.
I’m in some ways a lot like Tinkerbell. I get very emotional and “go all in”. I really need to curb this tendency before I consider dating again. I don’t consider myself to have a particularly strong mind (although friends tell me so), but I’ve also learned to cut myself off both physically and, more importantly, mentally from people who hurt me (it’s not instant of course to mentally cut yourself off from someone). Once I firmly believe that it was on purpose instead of accident anyways. Anything repeated becomes on purpose no matter what though.
I’m also taking this to heart “You need to toughen up, honey. Life is full of disappointments, hurt and pain. You need to be able to somehow cut through all of that and even though, it seems unlikely, try to find your own joy.” I’m well aware that life is full of hurt and pain (I go through hell on daily basis because of medical reasons, and have made it a point to still try and find joy), so I don’t know why I thought that finding a good romantic relationship would be any easier.
Hi Shar. Other than inheriting my Mom’s toughness. Like you, I have had a serious medical situation also. It’s bad but it’s good because I don’t need any more sh*t piled on top of what I already deal with daily. And, agree. Why should finding a good man, living fairly close by, be any easier? LOL!
Thank you Shar for your reply. Yes, it hurts that I was basically used and lied to about things. Mostly that he wasn’t who I thought he was. Partly was my fault because I put him up on a pedestal. I bought into the fantasy. And yeah, I guess I am still hung up on the whole ‘don’t want a relationship/girlfriend. want to sort myself out first’, only to get on a dating site a month and a half later and start dating someone & pursue a relationship with that person. But oh well. Guess that’s just how EUM/AC’s are.
I too believe that he get’s some sort of enjoyment over the fact that I am still struggling and hurting. I am still NC and actually feeling good about it. I haven’t been tempted to message him either. Yay me! 🙂 My birthday is Friday and hopefully I don’t hear from him at all on any social site or email (he has several email accounts so who knows). If I do, I will happily ignore it.
As Serene said: We ALL need to toughen up and find our joy. I hope you are doing well with everything as well. Stay strong!
Cinders, your ex sounds EXACTLY like my ex from about 2 years ago. He was blowing all hot and saying all the right things in the beginning, he wanted a relationship, was all about long term, wasn’t looking for something casual, etc. etc. Anyways he did a GIANT U-turn suddenly one day and started pulling the good ole fadeaway on me. At the time I had not yet discovered this site and this had never happened to me so I reacted like an unknowing girl and tried even harder, confronted him, the whole nine yards, culminating in him saying he wasn’t ready for a relationship, he was just looking for something casual, not looking for a girlfriend, blah blah blah. Anyways apparently he met someone else because within two weeks of “breaking up” with me (through text mind you, and we lived 5 min from each other), he was “in a relationship” with a new girl, facebook official and everything. That hurt me the most and made me feel worthless, I kept thinking why her and not me…
It was a rough few months, but in that time I found BR where after reading so many articles, I deleted him from FB, off my contacts everything. Even with him deleted I still checked his and her page until I realized that I was only hurting myself. One day I made a pact with myself not to look at either pages and to let it go. It was hard but I stuck with it. It was really hard because I thought he was the one, the guy I was meant to be with, my one and only. And to see him with another girl giving her what i so desperately wanted from him, a relationship, ohh that was very painful.
When I look back now, I wish I could get the Delorean and travel back in time. I would do two things, 1. I would give myself a hug because I know how bad it sucks and 2. I would slap myself and say “wake up, look how this guy treated you, you’re worth so much more and in the very near future you will be SO thankful this happened as it made you a stronger person. You’ll also have dodged a bullet because this guy isn’t worth your tears or time.
When I look back now I truly want to kick myself in the rear, and question my sanity won what I actually saw in him BUT I am thankful to have gone through it. And I can fully say that if he texted or called me tomorrow I WOULD respond, but only because I’m fully over him. And he would have no chance of a date. The opposite of love is indifference and I feel completely indifferent towards him. Going through that has helped me, I’ve noticed some similar signs with guys I’ve dated since and I have adapted my behavior, I still stumble sometimes but now I’m armed with knowledge.
Anyway, sorry if I rambled on a bit, I know it’s a rough time right now for you, but it WILL get better with time. I can promise you that.
Sammy, I could have written your post!
I don’t know if the ex had another girl lined up, but the behavior was exactly the same.
I am one year past the breakup and time does heal. I am not indifferent to him yet, but it sounds promising that 2 years after you feel indifferent. I know there is no time table, but about 2 years sounds about right to not feel much or any emotion left. Of course depends on the length of the relationship and/or what exactly happened and how much damage was done. My story was not of cheating (possible though, I was never sure) but the betrayal and something else quite damaging. So it takes different time for everyone.
Time and your own spiritual and emotional work help. The support here is tremendous.
Yes, Sofia. The amount of time it takes to get over someone differs from one person to the next and depends upon all the factors you mentioned. Also your own level of commitment to YOU is important.
Ive been following BR for about a year. I love it. I check in now and again and always feel much stronger for doing so.
I am so distraught with my situation. Started dating an ‘amazing’ man 3 and a half years ago. a few red flags/undesirables situations early on but I enjoyed his company and thought it would be fun for a few dates….he had 7yo twins, he had custody, their bi polar mother was in another state, he lived with his mother, he had a 3 month old baby from a friend with benefits who also lived in another state. I Know!!!! hit me over the head now!! what was I thinking. wait til you hear the next bit….he lived about an hour from, me, and we started to get closer and My daughter and I would go spend weekends with him. His extremely narcissistic controlling mother felt threatened by all this and was getting increasinlyg nasty. I didn’t even want to come up anymore. he then had the bright idea of me moving up here and getting our own place. I had serious reservations but he promised me the world, I told him that once we blended families and got into ‘normal’ would we be ok. yes it would be our normal and i was the woman of his dreams.
so I took a leap of faith, first couple of months were great and then the hot/cold push/pull started. I was BEYOND devastated. this went on for the next year and a half til I finally left 15 months ago. This is where it gets tricky… HE IS STILL IN MY LIFE!
why!!!!! why why why. Now Im nothing but a friends with benefits and I accept his scraps because my self esteem is destroyed and I honestly cant get my heard around the fact that I was once held in such high regard. Now he acts like my boyfriend (calls me every day, gives me rides, fixes my car and all that other boyfriendy stuff)
Ive cut him off twice but keep going back, he has showed up where I was, etc and its like he cant commit to being with me OR without me!!!
wtf is wrong with me? I have to get out of this madness!!! please help me! 🙁
Kelly, I am so sorry to hear about the destruction of your self-esteem by this scrap-giver. It happens a little at a time, I think, until one day you wake up feeling lower than whale manure. Lower than the gum on the bottom of someone’s shoe. And you wondered how you got there.
Yes, you will regain your sanity and your self esteem if you do get out of this madness. Otherwise, it will just continue on, because what you accept is what you will get. Being used for booty call is really an ego blow, and you need to stop that right away; you are worth far more than FWB, booty calls. (and if you don’t know who else he may be boffing, it would be smart to stop and then get an STD test)
It’s hard,but will be much harder if you permit him to destroy every last shred of your self-esteem. You deserve better!
Thanks guys. wait… isn’t whale manure a delicacy somewhere? lol
I just don’t understand. I don’t. There was nothing I wouldn’t do for him. I treated him like a King but he just withdrew and the more I would try hold on the more, he stood back. In the end it was futile, trying to hold onto a handful of dry sand.
He said he was sorry, never meant to hurt me, he didn’t know why he was like this, but knew he was like this but refused to get help
(oh but was gung ho in the beginning prior to moving in, to meet a family therapist who specialized in step and blended families!)
was he just a big fat fake phoney
Why wont he extricate himself from my life? I know I should do it but hey I still love the schmuck, wtf is HIS excuse!!
I said to him, when I don’t love someone amnymore, I am done, I don’t wanna hang out, talk, have sex, catch up. have dinner, grab a drink. no no no.
But he loves spending time with me (even when sex is not on the table), talking to me, confiding in me. the other night I was feeling a little emotional and was like ‘WHY!!! WHY DID YOU DRAG ME UP HERE ONLY ON A WHITE HORSE TO REJECT ME AND WATCH ME LEAVE ON A DONKEY!’ He put his head in my lap and said he cant answer, hes sorry he doesn’t know why.
He has made me so miserable for 2 and a half years now! we only had one good year really. 15 months I moved out, I should be soooo over him. I know I need to take responsibility for my own actions and reactions but I cant seem to until I can get round his!
Ive had some great moments of clarity and strength but they don’t seem to last. Perhaps because I am still living in the town he does (daughter in great school and I found a great job)and it doesn’t help that my own family are 3000 miles away. So I know I use him as a crutch, I know this. I feel like Im stuck on stupid somewhere between codependency and insecurity. And everytime I think about how weak and pathetic I am it just takes my breath away 🙁
I could have written your post except for the kids part. I’m trying to get up the courage to break mine up with mine too but not quite there.
Like the eum you mentioned, the one I know calls every day, helps with things, etc too. But there are too many eu behaviors and I feel like such a passing time candidate for him.
You asked how to move on. I’ve been reading a lot – here and some other books/sites. I understand how I’m contributing and my mindset is changing. For example I was recently able to question and say no and go NC with another guy who was trying to make me his FBG. I wanted to go into people pleasing mode but didn’t and recognized a lot of issues with this second rum. Also have noticed a lot of issues with people’s actions at my work and among people I know. So definitely improving… But still a long way to go.
I guess I may be confused by my last “relationship” as to whether he is what is called an EUM here or he did a U-Turn. This may be long, it’s my first comment and the first time I’ve talked about it with a community of people who may have insight into this behavior. I have never dated a guy like this before, always had good relationships, and this one has left me SO confused and heartbroken. It was from May to end of Oct. I was cautious as I usually am when we met, but we connected so well and without “digging” for any checklist items so to speak, he was everything I’ve been waiting for it seems. Truly, I’m 30 and have never had a connection to someone on so many levels before, he felt like a male version of me. EXCEPT – after my heart was won, he starting with the I guess “blowing hot and cold.” Would talk about how much he liked me, how he wanted to see me yet didn’t put forth the effort to make it happen except for a few times. There were some valid reasons, we are 3 hours apart and he works every weekend unless requested off, but there were times he was in town and didn’t even take 10 minutes to see me. Then he’d go home and ask when he could see me or invite me to visit him.. it was frustrating. Then he’d talk about going to the hills in the fall, skiing in the winter, taking a Europe trip.. and I thought, no he must be serious about me. We probably had three conversations where I gave him the option to opt out because of the blowing hot/cold, noting if the distance was a problem, if he has “a lot going on,” if he really isn’t looking for formally date anyone, it was all okay and we could just be friends. Each time he said that that wasn’t what he wanted, he wanted to move towards dating me “100%,” he’d communicate more, he’d see me, etc. His actions however never matched these words. He’d start to communicate minimally (after being daily) or disappear for a day or two, once for 5 days. At this I ended it saying he clearly doesn’t want this. I cared for him so much however that he came through town a week later as he was headed to New York and I saw him. I could tell he wanted to kiss me, I did not let him saying to myself “keep your respect girl! He hasn’t earned it!” He sent me lots of things while in New York (wish you were here type things) and when he returned he told me he still liked me. (This is middle of Oct) I asked what he wanted and he said, “I live somewhere else but I want you. I want to do everything with you.” Melted me. We kept talking that night and decided to rekindle however in it he mentions some girl in his town had been talking to him. He said it was nothing, just some girl talking to him, she doesn’t need to know about me because nothing is going on with her, he’s pursuing me and when I ask him if he’s being honest and will be invested, he says yes. 13 days later, he had again begun the disappearing act and so I re-quoted his words and asked if he was sincere. He stated of course he was! Except, by the way, “I met someone.” Proceeds to tell me it is the girl who was “cool but not you,” he’s sorry, he doesn’t know what to do so I shouldn’t waste any time on him (6 months in), he’s stuck in the middle of all this sh*t where he lives and he drug me into it (because he identified with me), I’m too good for him and any guy would die to be with me, it’s “not like that” with her, not serious, he has no long-term interest in her, she’s halfway though a divorce (he doesn’t believe in divorce by the way- “you work on things” good grief)but yet he was cutting me loose and “I’m sorry, please don’t hate me.” He took no responsibility/accountability for not following through on the things he said. How can someone say they are sincere in saying they want you and within the next few breaths say well actually I guess not. I admit, I was pathetic, I gave him a good ear full of dead on truth, then basically recanted by stating I just wanted to be normal friends. CLEARY me not wanting to let go, not understanding what the hell happened and who is this Jekyll/Hyde, was I just totally used?, etc No one has ever treated me this way before or made me feel so anxious and disposable. Anyway he had already been “hanging out” with her prior to this conversation (who does that when they’re telling someone else they are what they want) and dove right in once we were over. I creeped(I know)a week and a half after our conversation and she was adding his parents on FB. He seemed to panic because for almost every day of November was still liking girls selfies or pics, spending time with her, continued to engage with me,and then suddenly first week of December.. vacation to the hills, with her. Christmastime activities, with her. And just returned from a vacation to Mexico, with her. Painful to say the least!! Still liked my new cover photo while he was in Mexico with her though! Unreal. How is this guy who seemed so inconsiderate, immature or incapable of a decent, adult relationship and respect with me suddenly able to commit to this girl and doing all the types of things we were to do? Being with her and still liking things I post, seems odd. Doesn’t she think, who’s this girl? I did when I’d see him like other girls things when we were seeing each other. I don’t really know if he is truly EUM, or if he was just unavailable to me. It’s not like he had time alone to reflect after, he had total crossover between us and I feel that anyone who attempts to have two women and then just discards of one so easily and doesn’t seem to think or connect to how his actions affect others has probably done it before, so I’m inclined to believe that he’s still “that guy” but you question yourself, and your worth unfortunately, when you see him immediately move on and give what you patiently waited for to someone else. He was never mean, always sweet except for lazy efforts, never said anything negative about me or our relationship, quite the opposite!, he’s of a reserved personality, friendly to everyone, appeared to love his family and have similar values/principles..I did always feel I had to walk on egg shells when approaching things with him though, he felt sensitive to criticism or pressure.. I just don’t get how that good guy is the same guy I got in the end – one who moved on before ending things with me, who has no connection to what he did or it hurting me, never attempted to sincerely apologize or take any accountability for what he did and is still I guess trying to let me know “we’re cool” or he’s around by liking my stuff even though we have had no words exchanged since the week of Christmas. I refuse to contact him. EUM or U-Turn? I think I know but I may be seeing what I want to hear.
Jen, I read everything you wrote and I have two things to say a) I really wanted to punch that man in the face b) you sound very young.
He may very likely be EUM or just a plain ole Assclown but what for sure has happened is that you had a FANTASY relationship with this person. Yes, he told you that you were special and that he wanted to date you. But there’s nothing of substance. At least not in the story told by you. All I could see is that he said some things. Where are the actions, Jen? Where’s the effort?
Liking images on social media does not equal effort. You are not twelve. You cannot possibly think that it might convey some secret veiled message to you: “Hey, I am here in Mexico with my new girlfriend, but I liking your cover image to let you know that I’d rather be with you now”. MEN DO NOT DO THAT. THEY DON’T THINK that way. It’s some destructive strereotype we as women sometimes have (‘ooooh, what does it mean? maybe it means he misses/likes me’). I wonder where it came from historically speaking. But in reality – ask any grown up male friend or even a relative – and you’ll hear that men don’t construct those implications via liking someone’s facebook posts/images whatever. It’s what we’d like to think. Us. But not them.
You need to block him and his girlfriend. You need to get rid of him completely. He’s toxic. And he feeds some unhealthy patterns in you. THESE you need to address. Why did you still hung around when he was evidently moving on with someone else? Don’t YOU deserve someone SO MUCH BETTER? Don’t you WANT a man who’d take you on a vacation to Mexico and give YOU his undivided attention?
Why, thanks for the response. I’m 30 actually, and have never been involved with someone who has behaved this way towards me before. If I told the whole story it would have been even longer so those were the highlights. None-the-less yes, the effort was lazy by any normal standard, even with things working against it such as distance and work schedules. That was not what I meant by his liking my photos at all, sorry should have worded it better. I’m sure he just finds what I’ve been posting visually pleasing. I meant I found it tacky, he knows what he did, he’s there with her, why is he paying attention to what I’m doing? I’ve let him stick around, I understand that too. I point out that he’s been “liking” stuff not because I’m trying to decode social media like a teenager, but because I read some things on this site about it kind of being their “m.o.” if they are a EUM, they like the internet – they lurk and keep tabs, seek and give attention, possibly have an internet “harem”.. Agreed, I wanted to delete him immediately, she is blocked, but it felt so reactive and immature. Plus in the weeks following my head understood he treated me poorly, my heart was not catching up so part of me still wanted that “good” guy. I understand it’s what I should have done on the grounds of self-respect but I’ve never had to do it. Seriously, I don’t date too much but when I have I’ve dated quality guys, when it ends its sad but you care for one another, stay in touch for a while and naturally go your own way. This is so unlike anything I’ve experienced it does make me feel young and crazy. And yes, trying to wade through this emotional wreckage has felt toxic. That’s why I’m here, trying to understand and officially move on. I’m just still licking the wounds I guess. I can’t turn things off as easily/quickly as he did. I can’t imagine doing that to someone. Of course I want those things. I know I deserve better, I’ve had better. I kept him around I think because of disbelief, I wanted to see if this would last longer than a minute with her, to see if he really is “that” guy or was he just that way to me, and more importantly to see if he’d wake up and finally give me a real apology and take some responsibility for his actions like I feel he owes me. You hope you are wrong, you weren’t just used and you mattered. Even as I type that I know those are poor motives but it’s honest.
I understand. I am sorry for sounding so harsh. It was not towards you but rather towards that behavior that these kind of people exhibit and unfortunately, get away with.
You say “why is he paying attention to what I’m doing” but you have answered this yourself before – “the effort was lazy by any normal standard”. That’s why. Because it doesn’t mean anything, it doesn’t take anything, it’s empty, meaningless and superficial.
But not for you. For you, or rather, IN YOU, it stirs a variety of emotions and reactions. Your response to his liking your picture is unproportional. Why? There might be some answer there, if you ask yourself this question. Why his actions and his opinions of you and the stuff you post matters to YOU? Why an opinion and movements of a person, who has proven to be more than untrustworthy and definitely unworthy of your time, is taking so much space in your heart?
Jen, I am not pontificating really. I know your pain. As I were there myself. It took me a long time to heal. Much longer than I am comfortable admitting.
You’ll get to that place of indifference towards him and his petty actions, I promise you.
Ladies, I really need support over the next month as I try to go no contact again. I’ve had a few moments of broken no contact this week as we still try to figure out what our relationship/friendship looks like now and who’s going to what events at work, Etc to avoid each other. He says he wants to try to be friends in the fall after his baby is born and that’s fine, but then when I said sure, I think he’s worried since then that hea misleading me (like we’ll be together in fall). So now he’s being super cold at work.
Holy sheise, this sucks. And is further example of why you should never get involved with a married co-worker. For some reason it still takes all the strength I have not to text or email him to say, look, I’m not waiting to be with you, so stop being cold to me at work! I have to just go no contact again and stay no contact. I need to get back to the place where I can see him for the jerk he truly is and not feel sad. And I need to really just heal and let go of a relationship that has become so dysfunctional it leaves me feeling terrible every time we talk. My mini-goal is to make it to middle of April (and hopefully by then it will just be a habit of being and a way of thinking so that it isn’t hard anymore. I may be posting a bit on my progress for support here during that time. Hope it doesn’t bother anyone and thanks for listening!!
Leanne, I feel that I need to interject here as this situation rumbles and rumbles on and what I say next will hopefully resonate with those of you in similar situations.
There is no point in you going No Contact until you actually understand why you would be doing it in the first place. What’s the point in going NC when two shakes of a lambs tail and you’re engaging him again? You’re riding the hamster wheel. You keep pressing reset and forgetting the pain and disappointment. This man cannot take your pain away. The singular problem here is that you seem to be in denial about this man being married and you want him to take away your pain. You don’t take it or what has happened between the two of you seriously enough. Instead, you look for his validation and continue to engage him and fan his ego. Who the eff says shite like, they want to be friends after the baby comes? You do not need to organise who is going to what events. You are not in a relationship with him. He’s not one or your parents. If he feels uncomfortable, that’s his frickin problem. Stop hanging around in the shadows of your life and making asinine arrangements with him – not your monkeys, not your circus. If he wants to be cold towards you at work, so what? He’s married with a baby on the way and has been screwing around behind his wife’s back. If anything, you need to stop letting this man dictate and direct things and take responsibility for your own life and how you want to feel. He is not the boss of you and if you keep absconding from your duties to you and putting it on him to ‘act right’ so that you can feel better, you will never feel better. Take responsibility. Yes, you made a poor choice in having an affair but you are human, you want to love and be loved and in that process, you make mistakes. I’ve been there. This choice can be nipped in the bud but only by you. Right now you’re carrying on as if you would be having this affair if only for the fact that a baby has come into the fray – UM – there’s bigger bloody personal reasons for you to opt out of this situation. Yes he’s talked out of his batty, yes he’s been a jackass, yes he’s misled you, yes he’s married, yes he’s knocked up the woman he’s married to ‘behind your back’ but you know what? You have misled you too and you’re still misleading you. Do not own his feelings or behaviour but do stop shuffling all of this blame and pain around and take the focus off of him and bring it back to you with compassion and responsibility. Stop trying to control his feelings and behaviour and take responsibility for you and your well-being. There will be grief support groups in your area plus look up Codependents Anonymous as well. Invest more time and effort into seeing a counsellor or alternative therapies than you do in engaging with this man. Address the root cause of this involvement – this is not about him; it’s about the past. Heal that abandonment wound and acknowledge the impact of the past and the hunger for this affair will dissipate.
And I have to mention this but remember that you have to put on topic comments in and that you can’t use the comments as a forum. This doesn’t mean that you cannot update with your progress where appropriate (I’m sure that readers want to hear from you) but do make sure that it’s in line with the commenting policy to ensure that all comments show.
Crickey Leanne. She doesn’t show up very often in the comments and those are very wise and sincere words from The NML herself. I really hope you take them on board and start to live for you now. God bless you. It’s really hard but it would be much harder to continue on your current path. Take the easy way, take YOUR highway. Everyone here will help you along. This guy is a mess, his poor wife is having their baby and he is a first class arsehole. Run like the wind girl…
NML-You have been a life saver and I love this site! I am still struggling with an issue that happened 2 months ago and if anyone could weigh in or just allow me to yell and scream and vent, I would appreciate it.
I am 33,I met “C”, also 33 on an online dating site back in early October 2014. It was going to be a month before I moved to his city so we kept up email conversation. He was so “different” than most online guys. He actually took the time to write well written emails in honest attempts to get to know me. Very sweet guy. A week later we started texting. Right off the bat I noticed it was “odd” that he would text me, it would then be HOURS if he would respond to my response, if at all. He let a lot of conversations just die. He would also go days without texting. I found all of this odd and told him I felt he wasn’t that interested. He immediately called me and assured me that he was.
I moved to his city in November. He has his kids, age 11 and 6, 10 days a month and he is a big shot at his job and travels the US and Canada 6-9 days a month so it was November 23 before we had our first date. The first date was lovely; the guy was clearly very interested in me and was so sweet to me.
Red flags I found out from the 1st-3rd date:
–He had only been officially divorced since July 2014, so all of 4 months by the time I met him!
–His divorce was due to his ex wife cheating for 1.5 years. He said HE filed for the divorce. He states she also attempted suicide after he left her.
–During 2nd date he said he was finding it hard to forgive. I asked if he was SURE he was ready to be dating. He brushed me off and said he wasn’t even attracted to her anymore and that I should quit looking for reasons why “it won’t work because he felt this was the start of something good”.
–Told me on date 1 that he is ADHD (he was talking 90 mph). Also told me that his dad was bipolar and schizophrenic. He made it a point to ask me “Do you know what bipolar is”? (My therapist thinks C is also bipolar based on what I’ve told her about him)
–His younger brother committed suicide in 2011. C was the one to discover his body.
–His father passed away from cancer in July 2013.
–Admitted he get’s bored easily and is very spontaneous (adhd symptoms as well).
–Said that he is a bad communicator.
–Said that he is bad at dating/relationships.
–He had been with his ex wife from the time he was 15-31. Pays her $2700 a month in alimony/child support.
–Is having drama with ex wife over child care… she is not sending them to school with lunch money and failed to get the older kid registered for basketball.
–Told me he has had the cops called on him 3 times: Once by ex wife, she said he had a gun in his briefcase, it was actually her cell phone that he stole from her to get evidence of cheating. Another time he said “I was dating a girl back home and 2 guys tried to jump me in the bathroom, get into fight and the girl called the cops on HIM” and lastly, his other brother and brothers fiance were living with him. He and brother got into a fight and the fiance called the cops on him. He said it was just a verbal fight, no punches thrown.
–He kept telling me he is a “mess” but would never elaborate. I told him he seemed perfect to me and he always replied “I’m not as perfect as I seem”
This man was CLEARLY into me:
–would actually CALL versus text.
–always telling me how amazing, beautiful, successful I am. Would say he is so proud of me for career success, for volunteering, etc. Said he admired me.
–Told me I am too good for him.
–Told me he felt “This is the start of something good”
–Told me he couldn’t possibly like me any more than he already does
–Very loving and affectionate when with me.
His texting habits did bother me and on 2 other occassions I gave him an “out” saying I felt he wasn’t interested He always assured me he was very interested and that he is just new to dating and bad at communicating. Told me he felt he would never have a relationship again due to lack of time. I assured him I am very independent and understood he had kids and has to travel and that time would not be an issue with me.
Anyway, after all of 3 dates and 2 months of talking, he traveled home for Christmas. For 5 days I did not hear from him (I didn’t text him either). So, by day 5 I had had it. I told him I felt he wasn’t interested anymore and that I had enjoyed getting to know him. He replied “It is not that at all, I too enjoyed getting to know you. My life may seem a bit complicated and I apologize for that”.
That answer didn’t suit me so I said “It takes all of 30 seconds to send someone a text. I am obviously not that important to you for you to do so. I am just going to assume you met someone else”.
For the first time ever he was COLD with me. 2 hours later he replied with “OK”. Normally he would call and reassure me. I told him “No, not ok. You have hurt me”. We finally talked that night and he gave me this spiel:
I am back home and I miss my dad and brother. I feel guilty about my brothers suicide. I feel guilty about not seeing my kids more. I don’t even know if I’m going to have a job/house in 3 months, I haven’t even turned in my timecard from last week. I shouldn’t have been dating, I shouldn’t have rushed into things with you, I shouldn’t have come on so strong.
He asked to be friends. I declined and went NC.
10 days later he texts me a pic of his newborn niece. We make small talk. He ends with saying “You are honestly amazing and beautiful to boot”.
The next day I ask “What was the problem, honestly?” He said “IT’s honestly nothing. We are just both very busy and you seem to need more from a relationship than I can give”.
I am guessing this is a classic EUM or could it be that he was just not that into me and was using his past issues as an excuse? I don’t understand how he went from telling me that we would take a trip together, planning our next date, telling me “Don’t give up on him”, saying he couldn’t possibly like me any more than he does, saying I’m perfect, etc. Then he travels home from Christmas and leaves me!! It makes no sense to me. 🙁
ChicagoGirl – you did a lot of things right but you are giving away a lot of your personal power.
Why do we leave it up to the man to decide how deep the relationship is going to go? You did not like his texting and if you were coming from a place of personal power you would take the reins and say – “Hey, you’re nice, but I don’t dig men who text me rather than talk to me. …so, sorry, I’m out.”
And then really be OUT. Don’t wait to see if he does a grand gesture to keep you. You are asking him to change for you, and PEOPLE DON’T CHANGE. Or rather, you can’t change other people.
Once a person says “You are too good for me”, we should all hear the END OF THE RELATIONSHIP. That person is a fantasy chaser, an in-love-with-love person. I have never said that to the men I have loved. I did not think they were too good for me, I just thought they were great people. I’m saying, we all have something unsavory about us. For one thing, we all fart.
And the drama going on in these U-turners lives is amazing. Someone has died, or is in the hospital, or suffers from movie-of-the-week illness, or…whatever. The real thing that these people can’t say is he lost interest, is not up to the steady maintenance of a real relationship, only wants to reach out when he is at loose ends.
This guy sounds like a nightmare. He’s telling you all this incredible drama and you only went on 3 dates? Can’t imagine what a lifetime of this would be like. And a man who tells you “You’re too good for me.” Believe him! YIKES!!!
Chicagogirl; I agree with Elgie and Brenda. You’re asking if he’s EU. I dont even know where to start – he’s so messed up it wouldnt even matter. And some of this doesnt ring true – a suicide, an attempted suicide, bipolar, schizophrenia, guns, cops, fights. He’s either from a very messed up family and seeks out more messed up people or he is making stuff up. He told you he’s a mess but wouldn’t elaborate?! I think he elaborated enough! And you told him he’s perfect? No one is perfect. This man is definitely not perfect.
Please run away from this guy. And then ask yourself why you need a guy so badly that you’d pick this one.
Suki- I do know for a fact that he had the cops called on him. I checked his criminal record. I know for a fact that his brother committed suicide, there’s a Facebook page dedicated to him. I know for a fact that he’s an unmedicated adhd. Now I truly don’t know if his ex wife attempted suicide after their split and I don’t know for a fact that his deceased dad was bipolar or schizophrenia. Either way, he clearly told me he was a mess and I didn’t listen. The biggest hurt for me?! How could someone that is such a mess reject me? I’ve got my life together,so why wasn’t I good enough?!
Hi Natalie,
I often see the advice to “take it slow”. But honestly, I don’t even know what that’s supposed to look like. Does it mean not seeing your new boyfriend more than once a week? Is it something you’re doing in your head by trying not to get too excited about the new relationship? How does one take it slow?
Thanks.
In my opinion, taking it slow means not making major life changes in order to have “the relationship”. Like – don’t give up your job or place of residence. Don’t hold off on plans you already had in order to make room in your life for the new guy – just schedule him for a different day. Stop being so accommodating and twisting yourself around for HIS schedule. If he’s into you, he’ll hang around. Don’t use the number of dates to determine when sex should be on the menu. Don’t rush into overnight trips together. Don’t lend or borrow money early on. Do date outside of the eating-out or movies realm – even if that is outside of YOUR comfort zone. A good way to gauge compatibility is how people are when they are thrown into a new environment – go to a museum or an afternoon live play. Is he bored-shocked-intimidated by doing something different? How does he handle it? How do you handle it – do you make it his fault if it doesn’t go well? Does he make it your fault?
Taking it slow just means getting to know the other person as a complete individual – not as a the fantasy Prince or Princess Charming. IMO.
Laney. Good advice from Elgie. Also, some really active things to do are bowling and ice/roller skating. These are opportunities in which you both may look awkward, less poised or confident. They’re opportunities to laugh at each other and laugh at yourselves. The idea is to observe each other in a variety of situations. After this goes well, then go on to meeting each other’s friends. Do all of these things over a period of several months. Don’t be quick to declare yourself “in love”. Take your cues from him.
Elgie, I am totally writing these down in my notebook to keep reminding myself. Sometimes I forget what “slow” means too. You have provided excellent suggestions!
Thanks @NML,
That is all very true and very helpful. It’s been so hard for me to deal with this sudden change of events, this u-turn, because he was saying and doing things that led me on, but more than anything, I was way too willing to believe and continue to create, a fantasy life with a man who has proven to be a jackass. I’m sorry for clogging up the airwaves here like it is a forum. I am in counseling and will look for some grief support as I get through this. I appreciate the support I’ve received here and am sorry for my waffling and over-posting!!
The more days I go without any contact, the less I crave love (and validation I guess) from this idiot. and the stronger I feel. So thanks. I will report back on progress eventually down the road.
Thanks Nat and BR readers/posters.
Hi Leanne. You WILL get better and prevail over him as long as you maintain NC. DO. NOT. I repeat, DO NOT break NC. It requires a huge effort to shift your mindset. If you lose your resolve you have to start all over again. Keep going AWAY FROM HIM.
Thanks Serene,
So very true. I am going to make it to my April 15th goal and then carry on from there in continued NO Contact. It’s the only way to truly heal from this and move on. Thank you for all of your support 🙂
I am changing my name too.. What a great idea! BetterThanEver.. This is how I will be soon (and already am becoming with no contact from here). Thank you!!
Hi Better Than Ever. Like you, my new name is not really accurate YET. However, I have come so incredibly far from where I was when I first came to BR. And, I can still see continued progress very rapidly, I might add. So that is why I gave myself the name Serene. Most of the time I feel that way. I live alone but I’ve learned to be content and happy with myself. Another thing that helped tremendously was adopting a rescue cat who I’ve named “Happy”. He is happy to have a loving home, with lots of attention and I am more than happy to have the company. Actually, it’s much like living with another person, but without any aggravation, disagreements, etc. We must keep doing the work necessary to fully reach that point that we have chosen to name ourselves. I am almost there. You have work to do but if you are consistently dedicated to being a better YOU, there is no reason why you cannot be “Better Than Ever”. Take to heart everyone’s advice, especially Natalie’s. Keep in mind that the longer you maintain NC the easier it becomes and with it getting easier you feel increasingly better. Keep strong and believe in yourself. If you don’t, nobody else will. Serene.
Cinders, Tinkerbell, figuring it out
Thanks for posting. I too have spent ages thinking and rethinking about the MM and our relationship. Like some of you, I turn it over again and again (not just the bad parts but the good parts and the great sex) . I’ve posted my story earlier in January.
I also obsess about how much I hate the other Other Woman.( Ie a other woman who MM ditched me for to sleep with despite saying he wanted us to be long term affair partners. )
Its been over ie 5 months- I STILL think about it and rethink it in the hope I can find an answer to WHY he did a U-turn on me. When it seemed easy going and available BUT in my heart knew it had to end because I knew it was making me feel sick I’ll and miserable. It didn’t make sense.
I think NML says- I probably never will. My therapist spent a whole session trying to figure him out (with me present, her asking to fill in facts).not helpful: I wish id found BR 5 mths and a few hundred bucks earlier!
I ruminate a lot. Lochy: thanks for the tips. So I wrote down my own “lessons learned” after it ended in October, as I thought it would help- before I fond BR.
One lesson I’d written about was:
when they do the U turn and its over, you dont HAVE to give him an explanation. And don’t rush trying to explain your feelings-in the confusion I didn’t know how I felt… I didn’t owe him an explanation but somehow felt i did!!! He took me out to dinner “to explain it” and why I was being ditched for other OW but gave me no explanation at all, no apology. He just said other OW was sad her new relationship was over and wanted to visit him to get comfort. He was in my town for two weeks- wld rather have spent it with me but felt he “owed” her as she was such a good friend. She was demanding a drama queen high maintenance- but even though he did not love her any more he loved her once- even though their affair lasted just a few months, more than a year ago. They still saw each other occasionally. But he was sad it had gone “down the pan”.
Ugh. I listened to this all- was it lies or did he REALLY believe that all?
No apology, no listening to me. No “owing” me. I said I wanted it to end. I didn’t want his emotional baggage complicating my life. But I trie to go on about how I felt… I pretended to be all cool and calm but didn’t pull it off.
He got v drunk and shouted at me, saying his own marriage was a mess/ his job stressful etc etc. AGAIN I tried to explain myself and my reaction.WHY???????!!!!!!
He was too drunk to remember.
Then I slept with him again ( he’d be texting her moments after sex…it was DISGUSTING) as I felt I’d “lost” so couldn’t lose anything more, and wanted more good sex. I was at Rock bottom.
Before his U turn ie when things were going ok , I’d wanted to end it. I’d even planned a conversation to tell him it was over- maybe casual sex might happen if we met again, but no long term plans (ie his fast forwarding) sexting, naked photos, plans to meet for sex (he lives nr my parents: after he left my workplace I tried to end it but he would say I’d also see him when I visited my parents…) emotional texting/,smsing 20 times a day had to end.
I was annoyed he did the U turn – with another OW- before I was able to end it first!
BR makes things much more simple. My lessons are that:
– I don’t need to identity or explain feelings. I can trust my gut but that doesn’t mean I need to articulate.
– it takes time for feelings to settle. Figufingitout: 2 weeks isn’t long yet!
I’m on NC now but took me a while to get there….was on reduced contact. It’s not the same.
– Learn from it, A dear friend told me that. he made it easier for me as he showed his true colours. Another friend said: she saw I wanted to be loved by him but it wasn’t a competition with the Other OW. (I still feel it was ) I don’t need to think about her, but I still do…
I flick an elastic band when her name appears on work emails (she’s works for same organisation as me, in a different country. So she’d fly in to see MM, but he lied about it to me)
– the childhood or previous thought patterns is a great point. In therapy my brother and mother putting me down all my childhood and the insecurity I felt as a result, and low self esteem were cumulative….And led to bad depression in my mid 30s, triggered by a boss who would put me down, undermine me, tell me he didn’t trust me, talk about me to other colleagues behind my back (they’d tell me he did..)
I was told by his boss that DESPITE him being a jerk, I hsd to do more to massage his ego, accept his judgement and unfair behaviour and not take it to heart. JUST like my mother would say to me, after she’d put me down, which she said was character building for me. She still says ” I put you down because it makes you stronger”.
So I thought I could handle anything and embarked on the affair feeling I was in control. Tried to end it but he was persuasive, insistent, very affectionate, and sex was great. It boosted my confidence.
I see the patterns from work and childhood.
I wanted to end it- planned to do so at end of his stay. I kick myself for not doing so just two weeks earlier: because he got to do the U turn.
I wanted it to be ME saying it. But instead I know he didn’t give a s**t about my feelings or he wouldn’t have invited/ had other OW to stay (and then try to carry on as if nothing had happened by texting and emailing the day he went back to his wife after his “work” trip).
I wanted to be the person who *finally* in my life was the strong person who would not accept the situation any more. He beat me to it with the U turn, and now I feel I’m over-affected by my colleagues still saying how great he is/ a female colleague saying she’d look him up as she “loved him” and how great he was; a jealous female colleague who liked him too giving me the silent treatment.
I wish he hadn’t done the U turn and let me cut it off instead.
ICBIFT. You can think and ruminate over him until you are blue in the face and you are not going to get the answers you are looking for. And hating on the other woman is equally futile. Just try harder to get better control over your thoughts and actions. If you want it to end with him, don’t turn around and sleep with him again. He’s not the only one making u-turns. When you do things like sleeping with him you appear as though you don’t know what you want so you can’t expect him to take you seriously. He is an AC. That’s all you need to know. There is nothing to “figure out”. No disrespect but I’m surprised that your therapist was joining in with you trying to figure him out. The aim of therapy is trying to figure YOU out. Eff him and the OW. You say you wanted to finally be the strong person who would not accept the situation anymore. You wish you had cut it off before he had the chance to ndo the u-turn. ICBIFT, that kind of thinking is useless and a colossal waste of time. Can you go back and change what has already happened just by wishing it had been different? NO!!! So just stop going over it ad infinitum. You can still be that strong person that you want to convey to him by not engaging. But, it is far more important to YOU to be strong and to really believe it. The hell with him. There is no hope coming to you from him. Accept it and move on.
ICBIFT, my goodness. I wish I could just – hold you. And I’m not gay – not that there’s anything wrong with that. Don’t you see it was your childhood that is making you cling to this nothingness with this prime AC?
Don’t even rehash the details of this non-relationship any longer. They don’t matter. You are accustomed to hoping that THIS TIME someone will say something nice. That someone will give you the support you so willingly give them.
The hardest thing for people who have grown up without emotional needs being met is to learn to invest love wisely. I speak from my own experience. We have pent up dreams of being in something mutual, and we START the game at mutual, giving everything that we wish someone would give back to us. Which leaves us vulnerable to takers.
So, to get out of this habit, we have to start giving to ourselves only. Give ourselves space away from the takers. Give ourselves moments of healthy happiness – you have to find what works for you. For me, I love classic sit-comedies, or British TV shows. Sometimes physical work can boost our good feelings – decluttering for me, getting the home and finances organized. It doesn’t need to be an earthshattering change, just small changes that improve YOUR life.
You’re trying to convince yourself that you were getting a good deal because the sex was good. But if you wanted sex only, you would not be in pain over his involvement with another woman. Although good sex does boost a sense of physical well-being, you’re venturing into unhealthy territory when it is used as a confidence booster. And I think it is atrocious that he confided in you about his issues with the OW. You were not being authentic about your feelings and he was treading all over you and your boundary-less upbringing made you take it lying down. You should have put up a STOP sign, told him to shut up, you don’t care to hear about it, tell him to find another shoulder, and you are leaving. Then get up and go and never acknowledge him again.
I grew up with a Narc mom who is still wielding those ways. I was watching the comedy Absolutely Fabulous, and heard the character Patsy snap “Don’t question me!” when judgment questions were being thrown at her – questioning me is something my mother does to me all the time. I can’t wait to use that Patsy line. Baby steps.
ICBIFT; you say ‘Ugh. I listened to this all- was it lies or did he REALLY believe that all?’.
I wonder if you realize the paradox here, and whether this says something about your larger views on feelings and reality. The opposite of lie is truth, not belief… it is possible for something to be a LIE and for him to BELIEVE it. Him believing it doesnt make it true FOR YOU. Where is your truth in all this? Also, if he’s talking about his feelings, then there is no truth or lie anyway, feelings are just feelings, his feelings are true if he believes them. Similarly your feelings are true if you believe them – you are allowed to have feelings, and to trust them. You are waiting for him to tell you the truth about his feelings so that that can be the truth of your feelings, not realizing that the position he is in is a lie anyway – his feelings are irrelevant, his actions dont match, he’s a MM.
You are trying to get inside his head and see reality through his eyes instead of trusting yourself to see it. I think so many of us here went through periods where we were told our feelings were untrustworthy so we ended up with really really poor radar. Really poor ability to identify our emotions (I am sad, angry, suspicious) and then to act on them (I can walk away, stay silent, step back, refuse). And poor ability to recognize bad treatment. We have unhealthy boundaries and find it hard to say no. If you dont recognize pushy, then you will keep giving in. If you dont recognize your feelings, you will give in, feel bad, and wonder what HE is thinking. It is very hard that we are so poorly taught to manage relationships.
I think there is only one lesson to be learnt. No MMs. That is the one lesson if you want to ruminate that might be useful for the long run. ‘Not explaining things to the MM’ isn’t much use if there is still an MM in the picture.
Leanne,
In her comment to you Nathalie says: “There is no point in you going No Contact until you actually understand why you would be doing it in the first place.”
This is essential. Are you going NC because you want to remove yourself from this unhealthy (sick, really), destructive pseudo relationship?
Or are you going NC so that he finally understands what an AC he is and whatever else you want him to understand/do? If it’s the latter, there is no point in going NC, and this NC won’t help you to get out of this situation.
Be responsible and accountable to yourself. It’s been quite a few times that you promise BR readers to start NC(I guess that’s your way of enforcing NC for yourself), only then to break it. And – you obsess about his coldness to you, about his behavior…this should not be your concern at this point at all!
Yes, real NC is no fun but it is a way to kick your addiction, learn valuable lessons and reclaim yourself, your power. Do REAL NC and have it very clear in your mind WHY you’re doing NC. It won’t be easy in the very early stages but as Churchill said: “When you’re going through hell, keep going”.
Save yourself and your precious time. When you finally do extricate yourself from this situation and stop being addicted to this drama and pain, you will look back and think with regret about time and effort wasted. You really have to do some work on yourself – try to determine what’s made you an easy prey for this particular MM and address that issue (issues). You must become whole again and this requires effort and action from you!
Hugs.
What really flew out at me from this post was the eloquent way in which Nat discusses the fact that how we behave after a U turn is important:
“Whatever it is that you’re expecting from them is also what you need to expect from you. If you want them to be vulnerable or to communicate, you do too. Often in these situations, because one person starts acting funny, the other person does it too and of course that just makes an already tricky situation much trickier. Know your line. Be authentic. Don’t play games. It’s better to let go of the relationship than let go of you”
I have been so guilty of this in the past. Weirdly enough – but actually a very good thing indeed – when I have communicated and been vulnerable with the WRONG man- he has skedaddled!
However being truly vulnerable with the RIGHT man is way way scarier. When the RIGHT man does a U-turn due to VALID reasons/jitters we must be careful not to freak out because of what all the WRONG men have done in the past.
Not all u-turns are due to the man being wrong for you. Sometimes a u-turn is as Nat says, a chance to slow down, reassess and have a conversation.
I experienced a significant u-turn with a man almost 1.5 years ago. Due to all the u-turns I had experienced before with PAST men, I took off and ran for the hills.
After loosely staying in touch respectfully and getting on with our own lives, he recently apologised and explained the reasons for the u-turn. I am able to see that we BOTH rushed the relationship. That we BOTH had some growing to do and that we BOTH had things from our past we needed to work through.
Now we can slowly continue to build on what we have learnt about each other. The u-turn was actually a learning curve.
Boo. That’s a nice story. I think it showed maturity on both your parts to be able to get to that point in the friendship. You both derived a benefit by learning more about yourselves and each other. Now, step back and allow him to lead. If he wants more from the rship he will make it clear. But don’t you spoil things by jumping ahead trying to steer things the way you want them to go. If you only remain good friends that isn’t bad at all. A sincere friend who wants the best for you is a gem to have these days especially one of the opposite sex. Be satisfied with whatever happens.
Thank you 🙂 Very good advice and I totally agree. Its advice that I have found very hard to heed in the past but I finally feel like I can take it on board now. This sitting back thing. Not just with men but in all relationships and in life in general. Sitting back lets the right thing happen. Thank you.
Bx
I have recently met a nice, respectful man. At least that is my perception at the moment. We’ve only gone out 5 times. Because of my past relationship, I have a lot of fear. And I was honest with my date that I needed to take it slow. He is still around and we are having some really good times. I find it amazing that we are doing “normal” things. He calls me before 9 or 10 at night. We go out in public. He does what he says he is going to do. And if he U-turns, I don’t even know if I would be upset. At least he is showing me that there are nice men out there, and he is helping me to get over my fears. I like that.
Rewind,
I am in the same situation. I met a nice man ( so far, right?! Haha, it’s funny we have to second guess that ) and he is consistent, takes me places, doesn’t rush me when I say I want to go slow. It’s nice yet a little scary. I know I would be disappointed if he did a u turn or started doing shitty stuff, but I know I can handle it without getting crushed. My eyes are wide open to the reality of what is unfolding, and my heart is following but I’m still careful not to enter the fantasy of betting on potential or who I want this man to be. I am looking at him as he is. But……..he is over the top nice, which I am sometimes a little wary of, but I think that I’ve been so unused to men being nice and going out of their way for me that I don’t fully trust it yet. I pinch myself regularly. I pinch him too to make sure. Anyway, time will tell. I’m ready.
Sounds like we are in the same place, Selkie. I find it sad that I was attached to the narcissist for so long, that I forgot completely who I am. Again…we have only been dating a short while. But it is very clear from the get go that he is just who he is…no mask that I can tell. And when he drops me off at my house and says he would like to see me again, he means it. No disappearing act, no false promises. The main that that worries me, is me. I have a lot of self doubt and fear that just doesn’t go away immediately. One day at a time…..
Yes Rewind, me too. I can feel when I’m acting up a little or creating a little drama, maybe to test the waters…his AND mine. I am aware enough this time though ( I lost myself too but with an abuser ) to recognize when I’m acting out of fear and reel myself in. I have said here on BR in the past that although I feel so much at peace and happy being single after all my self searching and healing, that relationship triggers haven’t been triggered in a while and wasn’t sure how I would react when they did. Well, they are being triggered now and I’m trusting my own voice, being rational, and most of all….being gentle and forgiving of myself. I’ve also learned to be a bit more gentle on him than the previous post assclown guys. While I feel I have solid boundaries in place, I’m not punishing him for the sins of the past assclowns or expecting him to mess up….yet keeping a close eye on how things unfold. I’m looking for balance between excitement, fear and hope. AND I’m having fun. This isn’t life and death, it’s just dating. My life is intact either way. That is my blessing this time around. Forging on with fingers crossed.
Rewind and Selkie. I am so happy for both of you that you believe you’ve met a “nice” man. I’m even happier that you both are showing the wisdom in being reserved, watchful of his actions and not allowing yourselves to jump into fantasy land. I can relate so well to the feeling of “How can this be? Is he real or am I imagining this?” There are good men. Granted they are few and far between but they’re there. Look at Natalie. My best friend remarried after 30 yrs of being divorced, at the ripe age of 62! It happens. A lot of it is luck, unfortunately. I wish you both well. As long as you remember Natalie’s teachings and keep your heads on straight you should have nothing to regret however it goes. All the best. Serene.
Serene/Tinkerbell: Thsnk you for your comment.
I also found it very unhelpful the therapist was trying to work him out- I told her several times to focus on me and my self esteem!! I actually stopped seeing her after-. as found it ridiculous to pay to discuss him!
You’re right: I also was uncertain how I felt, so gave mixed messages- as I said, I pretended to be fine because perhaps I have learnt from childhood and now workplace- I always need to accept it when people aren’t nice to me!
MM. Low self esteem. No boundaries. Classic BR territory.
I did end it in some ways- told him clearly, a few days after I found out Other OW was due to come visit, that it was over. But by then I felt so sick and upset I felt I had no choice!!!!!
I was clear in my head I’d not sleep with him again. He said he wanted to be friends, I agreed. But not ready to really be friends so not seen him since then. NML and others have written a lot about friends here. Im on MC- minimal contact ie he writes and I sent v short replies or don’t reply, for past 4 mths.
Part of me wants to tell him to eff off, but as you say, nothing I say will change him OR the past.
I worry I’ll second-guess anything good that ever happens. I hope it does but fear it might not. It’s not easy. Relationships makes so many of us sad and miserable! I’ve just turned 40…feels Ive now entered “no children possibilities” territory… Diff kinds of men now. And more difficult.
You did the right thing canceling that therapist. Why should you pay a hefty fee for her to attempt to figure him out. YOU are her client. My therapist has told me on more than one occasion, “I’m interested in what YOU want, or what YOU think not him.
PS- NML/ others: any tips on how to stop ruminating would be much appreciated.
This post is very timely for me. I’ve ventured into dating and met a guy who I like. It’s early days and I’m earnest about keeping my head on straight while at the same time enjoying myself. Keeping the line. Thanks Natalie. I’ve come so far since I first started reading here.
Happy for all you who have met some good guys. But why a need to say in words “I want to take it slow” or “Let’s take it slow”….? To me, that is putting quotation marks around a fledgling relationship. Putting a box around something-that-hasn’t-formed-yet.
Just actually take it slow and let things happen in their own time. If you fall in love in 8 months or 12 months or 18 months, it’s still love and it’s still good.
Elgie. Some people know that they have a habit of “going all in” a fledgling rship prematurely with poor results. They’ve learned to recognize the fact that they jump in quickly and begin to fantasize before there is enough info gathered to fantasize about. Not to say that fantasizing is healthy at any point. And, then there are others who, by their very nature, move more slowly and with caution. There is nothing wrong with stating you want to “take it slow”. Saying it aloud or, in this case, writing it is merely used as a reminder to oneself and an effort to be self protective. That’s a GOOD thing, imo.
Elgie,
In my case he wanted to see me more than I felt I was ready for and was buying me things I felt were too expensive. I told him I wanted to slow down and savor getting to know each other and not rush into things before we really know each other. It seemed he felt too sure about me in the beginning (after 5 dates) and was making proclamations that got my attention ( possible fast forwarding ). So I said he needed to slow down, it’s too much too soon. He said okay he would respect that and that he didn’t want to do anything to mess this up. I’m paying attention, believe me. So, saying slow down was communicating a need of mine. I think it’s healthier to communicate this need than to just assume they will figure it out. Plus, me saying that to him was a good way to see how he communicated back with me. He did fine…..but still we unfold. One day at a time.
My alarm bells go off at your post, Selkie. When he asks to see you and you don’t want to because he is crowding you, all you have to say is “No, thanks.” If he presses for an explanation, I think that is a bad sign. He should just say “OK. I’ll call you soon “ or “OK. Call me when you have some time.” Pricey gifts early on is a bad sign too. It’s a sign of someone who wants to reel you in, then control you or abuse you in some way…even if the abuse is simply to start ignoring you and taking you for granted after the “newness” has faded. Sounds like he likes fantasy relationships, too.
But what do I know.
Let’s not go off the deep end so quickly. They are just getting to know each other on a deeper level. Communication is not going to be perfect. There will be some awkwardness in the beginning until they’re a lot more comfortable with each other. She may say things to him that could have been put in a more acceptable way in his opinion and he may do things such as buying her expensive gifts too soon. At this point, let’s not jump to conclusions about their interactions and just wish them well. Rships later in life are harder because there’s more at stake and both parties have lived a long time with ingrained thoughts and behaviors that they bring into the mix. A positive outlook is as important as honest straightforward communication. There’s a thin line between being wary and careful and looking for problems to appear before they have done so.
Serene (Tink),
Thank you for your encouragement and positive outlook. I am right where you described. 🙂
Selkie. I know you’ve been here a long time as I have. The huge benefit one can gain from being on BR > 4yrs is just amazing. The traumatic experiences we’ve suffered which lead us to look for answers is huge. BR is that place to come for many of the answers. What you said above sounds very wise and emotionally sound. It sounds like he is someone you can work with who will listen and respect your views and your feelings. At least for now during the discovery phase. You have probably learned enough that if, in the event it does not work out, you won’t undergo the same degree of devastation and confusion that you may have experienced in the past. You will be more likely to understand better WHY it fell apart. You’ll remember that you don’t have the power to change someone else or their patterns of behavior. And, that you can only change yourself and the way in which you respond if you should choose to do so. Good luck, Selkie.
I have considered he may be fast forwarding and am aware of the possibility of it. I am also aware that not everyone needs alone time and space as much as I need it, so that is the unfolding I talk about. I cannot expect someone who has had a whole different set of life circumstances to understand my own and move at my pace by reading my mind or my reading his. He has not pressed me for an explanation, it was more of calm, respectful and heartfelt talk were we both expressed about how we felt. I’ve done the assumption route before and it doesn’t lead to very good outcomes and creates confusion. At least this time I am saying what I need to say and being true to my feelings while also keeping firm in reality. We all move at different paces, which can be a problem if it gets misunderstood but doesn’t have to be if we communicate how we feel, are honest, and keep aware of what is happening. I see a couple things that got my attention. It may also be me expecting the perfect man to show up and make all the right moves without hitting my highly sensitive electric fence. He won’t be perfect. I have to rely on my intuition and self care to decide as things move forward. I trust myself this time around. I may end up disappointed if it comes to me ending things over red flags or him ending things over the fading fantasy he may or may not have of me, but I can’t find a copiloted relationship if I don’t get out there and try. All this learning I’ve done over the past four years is to my benefit but it’s not a guarantee I won’t find duds or get disappointed. It gives me options on how to take care of myself.
I’ll update on the state of things with this guy if any U turns happen or things get weird. Maybe someone can learn vicariously through me as I learn too. It is a little scary, I admit. Thanks for you your input Elgie.
Narcissts should be made to walk around societu with a giant red narc stamp on their foreheads
After moving state to get away from my narc ex and best friend I felt healed enough to date again and get into a healthy relationship .. After meeting what I thought was the healthiest potential I had ever met after 2 amazing months about to meet my only living relative go away with etc .. one sat night when we had plans at 8am the next day near my place I expressed if like him to stay over (I was noticing an all too familiar pattern of no intimacy in bed and making excuses not to stay) and commented I felt vulnerable in a round about way by the excuse ..
My response was that I should take my toys out of the pram and that he was not on earth to soothe my wounds and I should get over my baggage from my past relationship as he was perfectly “lucid” after his separation .. Then in response to my comment of shock I was selfish and childish. After asking to stop as id had a bad week being in court I was repeatedly told I was selfish and childish. After losing it saying I did not appreciate such narcissistic comments I was discarded brutally and next day when I tried to soothe it over I was abused no end including him telling me he was proud of who he was.
A month later I tried to get some closure as I was in a lot of emotional pain from having this thing happen twice in a row. I commented the comment about not being on earth to soothe my wounds was particularly hurtful being I am an only child whose parents have both died – I was told it had nothing to do with it and that he worked out the type of person I was and it was poor taste to use the death of my parents as an excuse and I didn’t know who I was dealing with (with him)
These men are sick and it should not be legal for them to be able to install the emotional damage they do and go on living life without a second thought to what they do to people
i met a man in December he was the most kind and loving man ive ever men, I met his folks he moved in, treat me well, never took a penny off me, last thurs told me he was planning to take me on holiday and how much he loved me, then Saturday morning he told me he was leaving me and he was gone. ive since spoke to his father and found out hes a lier and done this loads of times, my ex wont talk to me, and im left heartbroken and in shock and I don’t know how to pick my self up. why and how could he be like this and do it with no warning and why would he lie about his whole life, even lie to his parents.
Jessica. Don’t you think you should have left it up to him to ASK YOU if he could stay over rather than you asking him. If he made excuse in the past to leave what makes you think that your asking him to stay would yield a better result? His response was outrageously rude and mean. In light of that of that I certainly would not open myself up to more insults by “seeking closure”. The man gave you closure by being unnecessarily nasty to you. People like that you leave alone. You don’t go seeking closure from them. That’s like going to him and asking, Did you really mean to be so cruel to me. Answer. YES. You chose to put yourself in harm’s way repeatedly, expecting a different result. Some people are just not “nice” human beings. He may very well be a sick AC, but do you have to engage mith him? No, Run for the hills and be glad it wasn’t worse.
Serene, ElgieR, Suki
THANKYOU.
I don’t know if any of you are counsellors or therapists but your insights have given me lightbulb moment of why I am the way I am. At work, with men and with family.
Yes, why should his truth be mine (answer because I don’t trust my own, I’ve been told by my family since childhood that my thoughts don’t mstter….) links to NMLs new post.
The AbFab link is something close to me: the way I’ve been brought up to take anything lying down: put up or shut up.
Friends have told me I start at mutual and give too much. Takers will take.
After months in therapy for this and other things- a lot of which was looking for explanations for why my mother/boss/friends/men/MM did what they did. But not wanting to be the victim always or having no confidence, I’m suddenly- from this post and the comments- starting to see it.
Is there anything else I can read about this?
Sorry I meant- after months of therapy whereby the therapist discussed w me why the person did what they did, I’m finally seeing that it should be about bringing it back to me
Oh, ICBIFT. You are too kind. As for myself, I’m not a therapist or a counselor. I’m just a sponge who observes others closely and with therapy have learned to observe myself even more closely. I try put it into practice. That’s all. Being a senior participant here I try to share with kindness, compassion and a bit of tough love thrown in when I see people clearly going down the wrong path. Thank you.
I’ve read Natalie’s book Mr. Unavailable and (it seems like) almost all the posts and thoUsands of comments. Last year, almost 10 months ago I experienced the U-turn of the entire relationship, served on a platter that appeared oUt of thin air. The person I thought was the BGE – Best Guy Ever, after setting me up to ask “when will I see you” after he started talking about all his alleged plans for the sUmmer, declared that I lived too far away and that the relationship was UnsUstainable. WHAT? WHAT? So nonsensical becaUse I was doing most of the driving. We all know that two hoUrs is NOTHING for someone who REALLY cares aboUt you.
He’d just told me three weeks earlier that he wanted to plan a vacation together after allUding it to it for several weeks, he’d asked me to attend events that I was now Uninvited to. We’d never disagreed or argUed. We’d spent almost every weekend together for five months and I had by now totally fallen for him. We were in the middle of grilling dinner… WHAT? WHAT is happening?
I look back now at all the fUtUre faking, the little things he promised that never came trUe becaUse they were mostly reserved for the sUmmer: drinking coffee on the deck, the concert I boUght tickets for, getting me a bike so we coUld ride together. And jUst hoUrs earlier, yes this SAME DAY we drove by a restaUrant on the bay and he said (once again) that he really wanted to take me there. When we got back to his hoUse he commented that he wanted to wax my car for me. My daughter and her bf stopped over and he invited them to summer bonfires. None of these things ever happened though, becaUse I NEVER SAW HIM AGAIN after that weekend.
I got the “love bombing” and attention and the kind words until he BECAME A PERSON I DIDN’T EVEN RECOGNIZE IN the MATTER OF AN INSTANT. Because the guy I knew would NEVER do this to me. NEVER. But now I am facing a stranger whose words are hUrtful, whose look is cold, and whose entire tone is dismissive. But then he says he’s NOT ditching me. I asked if there was someone else. NO. What? What is it? He says his drive do his “things” is soooo great… Confusion sets in. SAY SOMETHING!!!!! I DON’T EVEN REMEMBER HOW THE CONVERSATION ENDED so that we could leave the room, go back to grilling, then eat dinner, watch a show, and go to bed. I CAN’T REMEMBER but I know it would have to be something HE SAID, because I would not have stopped trying to get an answer.
But something MUST be wrong because the BEST GUY EVER would NOT do this to me because he has ALWAYS been nothing but kind, caring, attentive, affectionate, and trustworthy. We have a GREAT relationship that could not feel better, right? We get along SO WELL, appear to share the same values, have taken interest in each other’s activities, communicate multiple times a day and spend every weekend together. The relationship and being with him now feels natural and comfortable and perfect. I can tell him anything. I probably did. We have shared dozens of stories, the sex is great and all the stars are aligned. This guy does it for me physically, emotionally, intellectually. And I’ve purposefully looked for someone who was offering a relationship, because at this point in my life,(we are both mid 40’s) I know what I’m looking for. I’ve finally found it. But…
I didn’t know about “love bombing”. I thought he liked me.
I didn’t know about “fast forwarding”. I thought he liked me.
I didn’t know about “future faking”. I thought he liked me.
I didn’t know about texting over talking being lazy. I thought he liked me.
So that night… we’re still having sex. I thought he liked me. But his mindset has not changed. And in the morning we have sex again, initiated by him. I thought he liked me.
So I stayed for another day thinking we would “be ok” and back to normal. Because he’s the BGE. He goes to work. I stay at his house, frantic and anxiety ridden. I call a friend who tells me to get my things and leave. But I CAN’T because he’s the BGE, right? He comes home and I tell him what my friend said. His comment is “that would have been harsh”. REALLY? Because what he did to me was almost ten months ago and I still haven’t slept through the night since then. I stayed the night. He turns away from me and here is no sex. When I get up in the morning< I take a quick shower and try to leave. But now he's "nice" again and wants me to sit down and have coffee with him. WHAT???? So we "talk" again. He says things like "I gave you all my free time" and "I feel like I'm living a lifestyle that isn't mine". I have NO IDEA what is happening but now I'm intimidated by him for the first time ever (emotionally) and crying.and.can't.stop. So I ask… "I'm never going to see you again, am I?" and he replies that he thinks he'll be around next weekend. He walks me to my car, holds me for a long time. Kisses me goodbye. I'm.still.crying. Tells me to text him when I get to work.
A couple phone calls and texts, one text telling me all the qualities I have that he admires, (so WHAT'S WRONG THEN???) over the next few months and THREE times tells me he hasn't given up, says we need to talk in person… More confusion. I have a serious medical issue arise and without getting into detail ask him to please, if there is a chance we are getting back together, to dig deep and support me. I'm scared. He texts back that he wants to have a positive impact, would "go to the dr with me" and that he is dating someone else. I had a two hour breakdown in public, at lunch with my friend when the text came in. Yes, he did it by text. I did not respond and went NC for 2 months. T W O B R U T A L months.
Then I broke and sent an actual letter. A week later I get an email from him that tells me that "sometimes people can get along really well and it doesn't mean it's forever" and that he's still a big fan. I email back. My writing is emotionally charged. He hopes I'll contact him when I'm "over this frame of mind" and that he still cares about me and misses me. UMMMM WHAT? But NOW I KNOW that words have to match actions. They don't. So now I AM HARSHLY OFFENSIVE, CRITICAL and CHASTISING for pointing out how I feel and that I am still so hurt and disappointed and missing him. Because he wrote "sorry" so that means he pressed the RESET button. Yes, still missing someone who rejected me. Messed up I know.
I took the time to compose the most difficult letter I have ever written. And I let marinate in my email drafts. And I read it to some friends and to my therapist because, yes for the first time in my life I am seeing a therapist. And then a few days later I finally hit send. And I never heard from him again, the BGE, the guy who won my heart, the guy who would NEVER turn his back on me.
what a u-turn i am trying to recover from. after dating for almost a year, my EUM assclown of a man decides a few months ago that he is ready to live together. HIS decision, i point out again!! the day before moving in together, he tells me he is not ready. he is just not ready for that commitment. a week later, he ends our relationship over the phone. he states that he is afraid of commitment. no longer ready to commit. wants to see other people. that he is feeling lost and confused. i must admit that these issues existed from the beginning, so i never forced or pushed anything. i just hoped for the best and went with HIS flow. i now know that i had found myself a real EUM!! we went from him talking about marrying me and spending the rest of our lives together. him professing his love to me, to his family, to his kids. he talked about what kind of house we were going to have and the types of trips we were going to take, to it all ending in one phone call. it has now been one week today with NC and as the fog slowly starts to lift and i come up for air. i wonder where this U-turn came from out of the blue. of course he has moved on for sexual satisfaction and i am not surprised. i am disgusted, but not surprised. this u-turn has left me numb and in moments of temporary insanity, but i will continue the NC because i know that is what is best for me. i respect him for his honesty of ending the relationship because of him not feeling it anymore. i do not respect how he handled everything afterwards. i feel at our age (43 me and 46 him) when you are truly happy with someone, you don’t walk away and give up so easily. i feel you try to work through it. this was the happiest he has been. words, directly from his mouth. how do you make such a u-turn from that? why walk away from all that? i will never understand.
I think maybe I AM this person… After a long term relationship that just didn’t work out,I dated a lot of men who didn’t want relationships, and I got fed up of it. About two years later, I went on a date with a lovely man, things got serious pretty quickly, and within a couple of weeks we were planning out a future together, and he was offering to move so that I could go back to my home country. He’s basically everything I was looking for and not finding – but there was never any proper chemistry on my end, and after a few months of trying and failing to create it, I broke up with him. He was so heartbroken that I agreed to get back together, but I just know that I can’t follow through on all the promises I made him without always feeling that something is missing. Maybe I’m just looking for more than I’m ever going to find.
Hi, Confused. Not sure if you are male or female, but your post serves as a lesson that everyone who pulls a U-Turn is not a totally bad person. The U-Turner is more than likely confused about his emotions, trying to turn something “good” into something “great”, but all the while trying to ignore that nagging feeling that something is “missing”. On paper, the intended looks so good, so the U-Turner has been ignoring his doubt. U-turners tell themselves they are looking for “too much”, convince themselves that this is the “right “ relationship. But, eventually, they make what seems to be a huge U-turn in their feelings, when what they have done is decided to stop kidding themselves.
And I feel that a person being left behind kinda knows when the other person isn’t all in. Your intended is making things too easy for you…like he has nothing better to do in life than to cater to your needs, which says to me that he knew you were on the fence about the relationship.
Tough situation ahead. That is a lesson in not moving too fast.
I’ve been watching “My Crazy Ex” on TV, and I love seeing the number of days tally. It is usually within 90 days that “the love of your life” becomes “the crazy ex”. Really people, take your time getting to know someone before declaring yourselves connected at the hip! What is the hurry?
It is scary when those that we love do a 180 on us, and its natural to blame ourselves. I have recently come out of a relationship where, for the last 4 months he was pulling away from me and couldn’t explain why. This was all (seemingly) over night for me. He went completely cold and gave reasons such as “something is missing, I’m not feeling what I should be” etc. Before this, our relationship was blossoming and nothing in particular happened. Of course I was crushed and the more I tried to communicate with him, the more he closed up. This was strange to me because he had always been pretty open about his feelings and loved talking about us and how happy he was. I blamed myself so much for everything, but only now and with the help of my therapist, am I able to look back and realize that I did give it my all. My ex would often accuse me of ridiculous things and he was very paranoid/insecure. His jealousy would create huge arguments and he would not rest until I admitted to something that I honestly hadn’t done (ie checked out another guy). He would use my “wrong doings” against me and eventually it dragged me down. I hated myself and truly believed I was a bad person. I sacrificed so much for him and changed myself as a person to become someone he wanted me to be, it was still never enough. Stepping away from him has allowed me to hop onto the road of loving myself again and seeing the beauty within myself. I have learnt that the right person will appreciate me for who I am and never expect me to change.