My inbox gets filled up with lots of questions and a recurrent theme is around the issue of being pursued. What many people don’t understand is why someone would go to the trouble of pursuing them if they’re only going to back off once you reciprocate?
The three most common situations I hear about:
Being guarded about dating because of previous hurts, meeting someone, them pursuing, dating them and expressing concerns about trusting, them reassuring and laying it on thick with a Future Faking and Fast Forwarding trowel, you drop your guard and shazam, it’s over or they back off sharply and start bleating about how they’re ‘not ready’ or ‘overwhelmed’.
Meeting someone, not necessarily expressing any concerns about trust, having a great time, them talking the future up and peppering the conversation with ‘plans’ and ‘hints’, and then as the relationship progresses and you start looking for more commitment and progression to match the claims, suddenly they’re gone, blowing cold or lukewarm, ‘not ready’ etc, or even calling you ‘needy’.
You meet someone, you go on what feels like an amazing date and may even go on a second and at a push a third, then all of a sudden…tumbleweeds. The next date you said you were going on doesn’t materialise, they’re not returning your texts, calls, or emails, and you’re taken aback. You wonder what you did or said.
There are three very important things you need to remember about pursuing that will keep you out of a lot of trouble and help you fundamentally understand how people that thrive on pursuing work and how you can unwittingly fuel the dynamic:
1) If you expect and have to be heavily pursued before you’ll ‘reciprocate’, you’re ripe for The Chaser, someone that loves the sprint, not the marathon.
People that expect to be heavily pursued tend to be guarded due to struggling with trust issues and fear about relationships. Unfortunately this reticence unwittingly acts as a red rag to a challenge loving bull. The Chaser thrives on uncertainty, not being in control, the unknown, proving you’re not who and what you say you are, and winning. While they might not literally think “I intend to unseat you”, this is actually the driver of their subsequent actions.
Your apparent disinterest or reluctance triggers curiosity and challenge which in turn causes them to overestimate their interest and capacity for a relationship.
The moment they feel in control which is normally when they sense that you’ve genuinely let your guard down and are not only reciprocating but expecting them be and do as they’ve claimed and showboated themselves to be, is the moment their desire erection wanes.
2) Some people don’t do commitment, like actual commitment with actions but they keep on dating, fading out, dating, fading out, and lather rinse repeat.
I know of so many women in particular, who’ve been caught out by Future Faking and Fast Forwarding it’s unreal. Most cannot comprehend, in spite of what in retrospect were some indicators that all was not well, why someone would pursue so intensely and basically chat the crap out of the future only to dump them.
Aside from those indicators that you may have ignored because you focused on their words, it’s important to realise this:
When someone resists commitment and they’re dating you and maybe even sleeping with you, just like the hands of the clock move their way through the day and we find ourselves moving from week to week, date to date, they become aware of progression and direction and the more time that passes, the more you see someone, the more you shag, make plans etc, is the more the Commitment Is in the Offing Ticking Time Bomb starts to get louder and louder and LOUDER.
The only logical direction for dating is to a relationship especially after someone’s talked as if this is what you’re in or that this is where you’re headed. Some don’t even need to do that – there are people out there that get twitchy and switchy after one, two or a few dates. Either way, you can feel blindsided, confused, and hurt. Which brings me neatly to…
3) You didn’t ‘do’ anything – after the Commitment Is in the Offing Ticking Time Bomb went off, their internal panic alarm will have had them solely focused on one goal, and one goal only – get the hell out of dodge and reduce the level of commitment or obliterate it.
They’re often consumed with the panic so I’ll be honest with you, their primary concern is themselves with very little room for you. As they tend to press the Reset Button soon after and pull the same stunt again on someone else or even have the cheek to try and weasel their way back in with you, often with a very lame excuse for their absence/behaviour (don’t listen), it never occurs to them to truly consider the impact of their actions on you.
It’s like the ‘fever’ is over’. Now dating or even you are attractive again.
It would probably shock them to know that you were worried about what you’d said or done or may have even internalised this and allowed it to impact on future dates and your trust levels. They were just responding to their flight reflex. It’s always important to remember that someone who resists commitment also resists responsibility which means they would never truly consider how they impact others, because that’s responsibility.
The key things to remember are:
1) Don’t date unless you have your self-esteem in tow, have addressed your fears (also see the Get Out Of Stuck Guide) and have a reasonable level of trust so that you can use dating as a discovery phase.
2) Meeting people is mutual interest, you pursuing and them holding back or vice versa isn’t mutual. This means sort yourself out and avoid being the type of person who thinks that people need to chase them down and prove their worthiness. All you’re doing is inviting an ever challenge loving dipstick to take a shot. They thrive on your aloofness and distrust.
3) I’ve said it many times – never ignore code amber and red behaviour. That will save you from winding up in pain from having the rug ripped from under you.
4) Just like you shouldn’t rely on being heavily pursued, you also shouldn’t rely on intensity because you’re both Fast Forwarding which just sets you up for a massive fall. Slow your roll. It also means you can’t become over-invested in something that’s been going on for all of a hot minute or is lacking any real action and the landmarks of a healthy relationship.
5) Don’t make their actions about you – you’re almost like collateral damage of the Commitment Is In the Offing Ticking Time Bomb. People who resist commitment will ward off the ‘threat’ of it. “Imminent danger. Must start backing off. Try dropping hints. Not working? Act like a jackass. Stop calling. Feel like can’t breathe. Getting sweaty. Increase to level 10 threat. Back off, back off, BACK OFF. “
If your pattern is to date and be in relationships with commitment resisting unavailables, address your own availability so you reduce your interactions with these folk. The less you make their issues about you is the more you realise their issues are landing in someone else’s lap while you get on with your own life.
Your thoughts?
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My ex is defiantly the first type, after HE decided to breakup (or disappears I don’t even have to make it clear it’s over) he then feels like he loves me again and gets nostalgic and wana get back together, this happened for two years, breakup makeup and I’m always the one on the other end, we always breakup and makeup because he decided to do both
Recovering from it is so hard it’s been 3 months and I still don’t seem to be doing that well, I feel good somedays but other days I feel dead inside & that creepy feeling of needing him comes back, it’s frustrating exhausting and I’m questioning my ability to do it, today’s a really tough day and days like these are the reason I agree to go back, because I don’t wana have them and they go away when we get back (however ironically I’ve never had them before him, I was at peace and alright) he’s actually the first person I “fall inlove” and I’m not sure if it’s love or addiction but somewhere along that line.
I’m questioning my ability to do it, I seem to be struggling alot & I can’t get out of this hole I dug
Rawan – you could be me talking. I count on nothing but I’ve made great progress this past while. I have no inclination to ‘go back’ as I know it’d be more of the same and anyway I think I have lost too much respect for him now that I see more of a sad and pathetic man rather than anything else. If it helps… what I had to conquer was my need for validation from him. I felt like a worthless piece of shit when he wasn’t talking to me, when I thought he didn’t care about me. I had to know he cared about me otherwise I couldn’t care about me.
You have to learn to validate yourself, to know that *you* are worth it. Know your own worth and your own importance and his ‘opinion’ will matter less and less and you won’t need him to make you feel good about yourself, cos you can do that on your own! I have been there. I know how you feel. It’s dreadful. But it can and does get better. Stay NC; it’s the only thing that can really help you, even though it doesn’t feel like it right now. (((hug)))
Fearless is right!
Wise words!
Oh yeah fearless that was exactly how I felt, worthless when he showed me he didn’t care or disappeared or treated me less than how normal couples treat each other, like I was nothing & less than everybody else, too many times did I feel not whole when I’m around people because of the way I’ve ben treated by someone who I loved and wanted to be with more than anything, I’m doing my best to let it go but I’m not there yet, sometimes I wish the earth world just fast forward time to a year from now when I’m almost fully healed or forgotten about it lol, but I know I have to do my work and focus on myself
Whenever I think of him or feel pain I don’t feel like I’m connected to myself I feel like I can go with my thoughts to illusion land and neglect myself spend the whole day thinking about the pain and the past and totally forget about the presence and me, I’m working on that
How much better does it get? Two years I’ve told myself that I can never be without him and he’s the only 1 I’ll love I convinced myself that, it’s like that beliefs been engraved in me and I’m trying to get rid of it I know deep down it can’t be true
“If you expect and have to be heavily pursued before you’ll ‘reciprocate’, you’re ripe for The Chaser, someone that loves the sprint, not the marathon.”
In some ways, this makes sense to me, but at the same time, I feel like I need to screen for a certain level of interest. I don’t understand where the line is.
If someone makes a point of talking to me, then I reciprocate and make an effort to talk to them. But when someone is chatty one day and walks past me the next, then I’m not sure where they’re coming from and I don’t know what to do.
There’s definitely a difference between pursuing and over-pursuing. Over-pursuing is when they promise you or present you with too much, too soon… which appeals to a lot of women’s fantasies and ideas of how romance should work. If they make themselves appear too good too be true right off the bat, it’s probably a “Chaser”. It’s hard to catch it early if you have a very specific idea of how things should start. In reality, most stable relationships are going to evolve at a more steady (and, yes, boring) pace.
I’ve learned that normal people are going be a bit flaky after I’ve just met them, even if they’re initially interested in/attracted to me. Some of the best guys I have been with weren’t that intense or consistent when I first met them. It took a while for them to come around and really be more consistent. I think a lot of women expect way too much consistency too soon after meeting someone they’re interested in, and that’s why they keep getting foiled by “Chasers.” You really want the guy to build up at a steady, slow pace with a little subtle encouragement from your end. In my experience, a really good guy is usually afraid of scaring you off and won’t push that hard in the beginning. So don’t hold it against them in the beginning.
HOWEVER, if they’re still blowing hot and cold after they’ve established a strong interest, then they’ve told you what you wanted to know: they aren’t serious. The problem is a lot of women (and I’ve fallen into this myself occasionally) invest too much into the image of the man too soon and don’t want to believe what they see, preferring to believe what they hear. They cling onto that and then get upset at the man because he’s not meeting up to how they think he should be acting. Even if he technically doesn’t owe the woman anything at that point.
Adele:
Thanks for your post. Really helps me to understand and it resonated with me especially this last relationship that I had to end because I fell for the hard chase in the beginning. Hadnt been out there in awhile and here came this guy who seemed sincere in wanting a relationship, wanting “me” and said and did all the right things. He future faked as well and had me really believing that this was real. I broke it off this past Sat because so many things were off and inconsistent with what he was saying (wouldnt text back for hours, seemed like everything was about “him”, came up with the weirdest excuses as to why he didnt return a call et….) Needless to say, 3months in I saw right through his BS. I guess what I am having trouble with now is not continuing to seek validation from him and wanting him to come looking for me or send me a text or phone call. Somehow I feel I am mourning someone/a relationship that never existed and that is really hard to overcome. I keep thinking about this man he was way at the start and who I believed he was. It hurts that when I ended things he simply said: Ok, if thats what you want I will leave you alone since thats what your asking me to do. Take care babe goodbye.” As if i was this dispensible thing or “obejct/toy” that had no meaning for him. I thought to myself: Uhm, what happened to the guy who every day told me how much he cared, how he was “falling for me” etc…? Its like how do you say these things and then just say: OK Bye bye as if nothing. If anything, this is what hurts the most and its the toughest part I am trying to get through. I did learn my lesson however, and what you wrote is sooo true. Too much pursuing in the beginning is a red flag. A relationship should progress slowly and should feel more “normal”. A guys feelings should slowly emerge not be so intense from day 1 (or not emerge at all but at least its more of a normal progression). I guess i will try my best to forget about this “fake” man and not look back to wanting him to come look for me so that I can get some validation.
You realize this it the EXACT OPPOSITE of “He’s Just Not That Into You,” right?
Not that Greg Barendt is clearly an asshat to even have a clue what he’s talking about enough to write the book.
and really, “scare you off” is something people created. It’s not even consistent across cultures.
Kayle glad you said that about Greg Barendt. In his book he says if a guy treats a girl bad, its not that he is an assclown with poor character, its that he is ‘just not that into you’. What a load of crap. I could go on and on but basically if someone treats you poorly, they almost always treat others poorly as well. I’ve learned that the biggest mistake you can make when dating is to think that you are ‘different’ and that the guy will treat you better than he did his last gf or wife…not
Broke:
“But when someone is chatty one day and walks past me the next, then I’m not sure where they’re coming from and I don’t know what to do.”
Don’t bother figuring out where this one’s coming from.That’s not your job. He’s just rude and igorant so why should you be doing anything about that! What you do is let him walk and you keep on walking – past *him*, past Mr Not-Even-Got-Any-Manners.
It all depends on context – if it’s a colleague or a particularly self-absorbed friend, then likely that it doesn’t mean too much – to them – when they are erratic in their treatment of others. They’re either busy and don’t have time at that moment, or the type of person who takes opportunities as and when, like picking up a doll to play with (and, as Magnolia once said, maybe even rip its head off and chuck it over their shoulder to then find another one). Not everyone owes you the same level of consistency, interest/attention, and openness. Where the (extremely erratic) chatter/chaser is coming from, is a position of intense selfishness. What you need to do is match up your interest and emotional investment according to what the relationship actually is, and how much you can give without feeling silly, depleted or, worst, used. I don’t think there are rules and lines about how much interest someone has to show you. I think it’s more about the spirit in which it’s done. That’s harder to sense and evaluate if you’re in an emotional coma or on emotional crutches, which is when you start filling in crappy behaviour with your fantasies and how YOU would treat others. This is why this post suggests getting yourself pretty emotionally stable and happy BEFORE entering a relationship. That way you know you’re (a) being natural (and not playing games/being aloof as a test – this starts a dynamic that is inauthentic, not to mention tiring) and (b) in a position to leave or deal with disappointment if he turns out to be unworthy or just not up to it.
It would be really helpful if, when these guys appear out of a dramatic cloud comprised of bs intentions, hot air and dysfunction, there could be some kind of full-on alert system…say, the theme from Mission Impossible starts blaring? When I was in Israel, they were doing a test of the bomb warning system where a siren starts up and everyone ducks for cover into their bomb shelters. That’s what these guys doing, except it’s not an air strike that sets them diving for cover, it’s, “This is my boyfriend, Christopher Commitment Phobe.” It’s really kind of pathetic. When my ex-AC pulled the disappearing act, I wanted to be like, “Man UP son.” Ladies, find a real man, not a selfish brat…and no, the size of a penis, bank account or IQ is not the measure of a real man. It’s the size of the piece of his heart he’s more than willing to give up to you! If he can’t, a real man speaks up and owns it (note: “speaks up and owns it” does not equal “whines about his problems while looking for a shag”) . Don’t settle for anything less 🙂
Natasha:
I concur. Love your comment 🙂
Haha! Love the idea of some Mission Impossible music to accompany their stinky dust-cloud arrivals, as they look side to side to see who else is watching. Haha! If only! It really is like this – I remember the AC calling me childish after what was a tense situation – one that was outside the control of both of us. I was so confused (and a little hurt) because I was in the process of actually trying to get us to reflect on how we could deal with a stressful predicament together better than we did. Reading this post, and your comment, reminds me once again that I had very little to do with this. I was simply dealing with someone with debilitating anxiety and pretty woeful relationship skills. He was frightened. And, come to think of it, he told me this a few times. I just couldn’t believe that a relationship could make someone that frightened. The world, yes. But I thought a relationship was a haven of sorts (and probably too much so). In part, as a result, I missed all of Natalie’s rules and got the wind knocked out of me when he bailed. A year on, I have still not recovered from it. I am trying – constantly and energetically trying to get myself better, stronger and more centred, but I still get the major wonkies when new man does not call on time or is inattentive. I wonder if it’s the start of the slow withdraw. I have to remind myself that I am in this too, that I don’t have to stick around if I am not feeling respected and enjoying myself. I also have to let him have the right to end things with me. But, far out, sometimes I wish there was a negligence claim that could be used against these ACs. I am not the same person as I was before. It’s a gift, in many, many ways (yes, it is! Remember that!), but, when it comes to a new relationship, it takes so much more emotional work – just to work out what is mine, what was the AC’s (projected or otherwise) and what is this new relationship’s. I strongly suspect I have a lot more work to do on my own (or at least for myself) before I am going to be able to fully and truly enjoy this new relationship. When we have fun together – when I relax – it’s great. But I seem to forget that in the spaces in between, and brace myself for a bail-out. I have considered that the fear that typifies an EU and (with the bratty, babyish, meanie stuff) an AC may well be contagious, or at least have an aggravating effect!
Anyway, go team! We can do it! (fake smile – because it’s good to fake smile until you actually smile.)
Mission Impossible.
Girl, you just said a mouthful.
I think it’s all a case of ‘watch and wait and see’. If it is a slow withdrawal, like you say, you don’t have to stay and put up with it. Usually it isn’t an emotional cooling and people just have stuff to deal with.
The most valuable lesson for me was to put the control stick down. People have to right to act as they want to act, to commit in their own time. You can’t second guess them and endlessly invent scenarios, you just have to look at the evidence in front of you and take it for what it is. Just like when ACs and EUs show us who they are, so do available guys. There is a pattern to their behaviour too. Everyone gets preoccupied at some point and you can usually suss when and why this happens, if you get to know someone, which helps us to evaluate but not own the action. This is what i have found anyway.
Commitment is about steady progression, factoring in the day to day commitments we have outside the relationship too. It is unreasonable and unhealthy to be totally consumed by another person or relationship (i constantly tell myself!!), but this is perhaps what we are used to – this all-consuming passion, followed my meaness and withdrawal. It’s a case of learning how the healthy dynamic works, without being afraid of it (easier said than done!) not just with partners but with colleagues and friends too. It’s important to see yourself as an individual entity, that is outside all of these various relationships and not dependent on them. The only person you should be dependent on is yourself.
Sorry, i think i’m rambling now!
Hahaha! Natasha, my ex EUM was named Christopher! Too perfect…..
Lois Lane (loooooove the name!), that is too funny! If only they really came with monikers that descriptive, it would save us all a lot of trouble 😉
@Fearless – Thanks lady!! It’s funny how when we get ourselves together these types don’t have the same, errrr, “allure” that they used to!
@Elle – “Negligence claim” made me burst out laughing! It really, really doesn’t have anything to do with us. Before my ex-AC’s disappearing act, I went to visit him where he lives and met his friends. When I arrived, he was intoxicated and seemed ill at ease…and when we woke up the next morning, he was so twitchy you’d think that an air raid was truly imminent! When Nat says these types go into a full-on panic, she’s not kidding. I think what you’re going through with the new guy is totally normal. Changing the whole way our relationships work is a HUGE deal and major change tends to be a bit scary at times, no matter how positive it is. I’ve always been a big believer in “Fake it ’til you make it”, so whenever I feel anxious, I put a big smile on too 🙂
@PJM – I just about choked on my coffee when I read that – you are too funny!!! Sister, believe me, I chose “Mission Impossible” for a reason 😉
Natasha,
I believe there were many red flags, unfortunately most of us failed to act on them. If we’re honest with ourselves and reflect on the relationship, I believe we can recognize what we choose to ignore.
True story Allison! Personally, I’ve been guilty of burying my head in the sand like an ostrich and then saying, “Oh why, why, WHY did this happen?!” when things inevitably went wrong – much more productive to not only recognize the red flags, but freakin’ act on them!
Yes, I recognised tonnes of red flags from the outset – things that made me uncomfortable, that just didn’t “add up”. I cringe now whan I think of those early days and how bloody obvious it all was; I could see them all – indivividually. I treated them as ‘isolated incidents’; I didn’t want to make an issue out of any one of them because sometimes I couldn’t even put my finger on what it was that I felt really uncomfortable about – it would have seemed like a whole lot of explaining and complaining about something very trivial that I couldn’t even explain, I’d have felt neurotic! And I did wonder with some of them if it was ‘just me’; if I was being too sensitive or misreading what he had really meant, or thinking he couldn’t possibly have meant *that*cos *that* would be really awful! I didn’t want to see what they all added up to – it was just too terrible to contemplate, i.e. that he could really be *this* person and not the one I took him for (with no real reason apparently!)
What if other people NEVER pursue? and I do mean NEVER, maybe minus 3.
I’ve found out that men and MOSTLY men project this aloofness onto certain “kinds” of women and I’m sure it’s not as rare or as far-fetched as you might think it is. In fact, I’ve found that non-heteronormitive women don’t do it so much, but sexist women, yes, as well as women who have a heavy gender-presentation bias in their mating decisions as far as who is “’obviously’ un/available”, based on their appearance. and dan savage kinda mentions this frequently, although not in those terms. and I’ve only heard it mentioned once elsewhere, but the anecdote was frighteningly spot-on.
What can you say for other women who go through the same thing?
LMFAO!!!! This genuinely made me laugh out loud!!! My hot n cold EUM has been behaving like a proper jackass lately, and now I see the ticking bomb even though I have done nothing to remotely insinuate I want to move things forward. I was very happy how things were up until a couple of months ago, and believed they would stay the same for the foreseeable future. My biggest stupidity has been that although when he’s a bit of a d!ck I pull him up on it, when he’s in total freak out (which only occurs in public and not with any consistency according to who else is there, etc) I am so dumbfounded that I let him off so lightly, I have even allowed him to come crawling round the SAME night for his ego stroking. Won’t happen again. By being a jackass they actually do you a big favour because it becomes abundantly clear to you that you have done NOTHING to provoke this extreme behaviour, so you realise just how much it is their issue, and not a reflection on you.
I hope you’re not still with this guy. (Didn’t see an “ex” anywhere) Behaving like a jackass is what it is- it doesn’t matter how many times you call him on it if he keeps doing it. And the freaking out in public? Wow. He just doesn’t sound like someone anyone would want to be around. It’s good that you’ve realized you haven’t provoked his behavior- that still doesn’t mean you should put up with it in any way.
If a person never “pursues”, I’d say that something other than you is their motivation in which case there’s your answer. It’s all fraught with ambiguity and paradox. Best thing seems to be to continue making your success (financial, emotional, spiritual, physical) the priority rather than wonder at how puzzling the universe is. I don’t mean to sound harsh, I do empathize heartily. I’ve never posted here before, but this article struck a chord.
I would say if someone ‘pursues’ in the face of (or because of) your disinterest, this is a red flag. If there is mutual attraction and an even amount of ‘pursuit’ on both sides (people always try to impress more in the beginning), then this is perfectly healthy.
Available guys will chance their arm, but if they see that the other person is aloof and disinterested, they will respect that.
OMG, this describes my last EUM/AC to a T! I was “needy” because I fell for him after he put on a good show, introduced me to family and friends (which he has never done before), and lead me to believe he wanted me. “Needy” was his code word. He even bristled when I put my head on his shoulder, saying it was “inappropriate”! He made me feel crazy for falling for him, because he was future faking. What’s sad is, 6 months later, I still love him. I just saw him this weekend and said hi, but that’s all. Wishing he’d call me, but I know he’s toxic to my heart.
Yankeebelle, I’m totally calling you out on this one!
I have a strong suspicion that you don’t love this man at all – you are IN love, with an IMAGINARY man, who he PRETENDED to be.
It’s like falling in love with a fictional character played by an actor, and then expecting the actor to be just like him. And falling in love with fictional characters and actors is the stuff of emotional immaturity and our teenage years.
It’s really, really hard to face up to it, because – as Natalie has pointed out many times to us – it means facing our own problems, shortcomings, commitment phobias, weaknesses, misjudgements. Some of us would rather crawl across broken glass, ‘be the exception’, and doom ourselves to a future of misery with an assclown, than actually face up to our problems.
The hardest part in situations like this is to admit you got diddled – cheated – ripped off. You made a mistake, and invested poorly; it’s something we all do sometimes. If I were you, I’d cut my losses and stop trying to get your money back, because it ain’t coming.
Once you get past this, you might find that you’re not so ‘in love’ after all, and you’ll be able to move on?
Hold your head up high, kiddo – you’ve got nothing to be ashamed of, and nothing to fear in facing your own heart.
“Ladies, find a real man, not a selfish brat…and no, the size of a penis, bank account or IQ is not the measure of a real man. It’s the size of the piece of his heart he’s more than willing to give up to you! If he can’t, a real man speaks up and owns it (note: “speaks up and owns it” does not equal “whines about his problems while looking for a shag”) . Don’t settle for anything less .”
Haha…whines about his problems while looking for a shag…I think that is exactly what my ex has been doing. Even though he’s in another country to me and has now moved in with his new gf, he still must get in touch with me (whenever she is out for the evening without him I assume) to tell me how much he regrets treating me the way he has (still hasn’t actually said sorry though) as if it’s going to magically make me want to start talking to him again like a friend when he told me 2 months ago that he hated me and never wanted to see my face again! No way! I have now asked him not to contact me for 6 months…I doubt he will manage to stay away that long though. I seriously thought that when he told me he hated me, that would be the last I would hear from him.
Moon,
Why would you have contact with this guy at all? He treated you terribly and has a girlfriend, I don’t understand why you would consider contact at a later date!
Allison – Good question and one that everyone keeps asking me yet still I find it hard to answer. I guess I feel mean, which is ridiculous when he’s the one who’s mean. :-\
Moon, i know exactly where you’re coming from! But wouldn’t you rather be thought of as ‘mean’ than a doormat? He’s probably there thinking ‘I can treat Moon however i like and she’ll still be there for me when i need to offload about my life and still feel like i’ve ‘got it’ and that my exes still want me. If things don’t work out with my GF i’ve got Moon to fall back on – bet she’d take me back in a second if i acted ‘sorry’ enough’. Cut him off. He’ll survive, honestly. 🙂
Minky, yes, that’s probably exactly what he’s thinking! I wouldn’t take him back, ever. Been there, done that. But I guess maybe that’s why he stays in touch? Just in case she does see the real him and dump his ass? Sometimes, I feel like he comes back just to rub my face in it. Like, today I realised he had joined FB…he always told me he hated it and would never join it again. When in fact I think it was just another excuse for him not to tell anyone about me, he knew that if he joined when he was with me, then I would expect him to add me and then his friends would know about me and he certainly didn’t want that. I think he knows now that I will look at his page which is exactly why he’s joined. He knows exactly how to push my buttons…I’ve asked him not to contact me for six months so he joins FB! Haha. Maybe he will forget about me during the six months???
Moon.
But, he told you he hated you. And, more importantly, he has a girlfriend.
What do you get by staying on contact with this guy?
Allison,
Another good question. I mostly get pain and frustration when I am in contact with him. He would still prefer to lie to me about how his life is than tell me the truth. I think he tries to make me think that he is really unhappy so I will feel sorry for him. I don’t feel sorry for him because I know he’s lying. I don’t see how we can be friends if he continues lying. I guess I asked him for six months because I think (or hope) he will forget about me in that length of time.
Moon, the dude is what I believe Nat would call a “pisstaker”! A lot of these guys (my ex-AC included) just love to say they “feel bad” without actually apologizing. I have been in the “I can’t believe he’s contacting me after how horribly things ended” boat and I can tell you one thing for sure – this guy is NOT your friend. Mine tried to pull that too and I said to one of my girlfriends, “If he’s my friend, I’d really hate to see what my enemies look like.” Next time he calls, send his sorry self to voicemail and hit DELETE!
Moon, why are you concerned about his facebook when you asked him not to contact you? He has another girlfriend. You are spinning your wheels thinking and analyzing it. Go NC completely. I don’t want to sound mean or have misunderstood you, but maybe his joining facebook has nothing to do with you and you are the one pushing your own buttons on this one. If you truly don’t want contact from him, stay out of his life too. That is what NC is about, it’s for you to move on without the continued drama, unless you are still trying to keep your foot in the door. It’s hard not to be curious. I have been there, so I say this from my own experience and I’m not trying to patronize you. It only ended up ruining my day when I would find out things I really didn’t want to know. Self inflicted torture.
jennynic – I suppose I look at his and her FB so that I can prepare myself for when he does return again. Because he does lie to me, perhaps in the hope that I will feel sorry for him, but FB (especially hers) is the only way I know the truth. Sounds ridiculous. I guess he joined because I pushed him away so the time he would normally contact me will now be spent on FB. But he probably knows I look at her FB.
You are in a holding pattern Moon. Keeping up on him and her so you can pinpoint the lies and be prepared for future contact is keeping you in a place of pain, and futile. Stop the insanity. Go NC and give yourself a chance. This guy is a jerk. You are worth more than having to lurk around in his life. Take care of your own heart Moon and get in the driver seat of your own life. Most of us here have been through this too and IT DOES GET BETTER, but you need to take the steps to make it happen. Read the No Contact post Natalie wrote if you haven’t already.
Moon,
I will add a little to what’s been said already: If you have decided you are not going to take him back, as you say you’re not, then it doesn’t matter if he returns with a pile of lies that you haven’t checked up on yet, does it? If / when he comes looking to lunch at your buffet, are you really going to take the trouble of sifting through all his bullshit to identify the truth from the lies? Why would you do that if the buffet is closed? He’s either history or he’s not. You are either in or you are out (same goes for him) Decide. If he’s history (and he should be) let him lie all he wants – somewhere else, to someone else.
Oh Fearless, that was awesome. Well said sister.
Moon, for serious, I did this for years with a guy. Cutting him off will be the best thing you can do for yourself. Trust me, there is nothing to be gained from checking up on what he’s doing, what he’s been lying about, why he sucks so badly, etc. You deserve way better!
Moon, not to be harsh but it sounds like you want him to contact you. You’re really not helping yourself here.
You make it seem like he’s going to make contact and there’s nothing you can do about it. There is: block him on email, phone and facebook. You won’t even know if he’s contacted you or not. But i suspect that’s not actually what you want. You want to keep him in your life somehow, rather than do the hard work of moving on with your life. You gain nothing by keeping him around, he’s just using you. He has a girlfriend! If he contacts you, it’s just to use you a bit more. Have some dignity, do the difficult thing, cut him off completely. Doesn’t matter if you seem like a ‘bitch’. Best of luck.
Yea, Natasha, I’m good at sorting everybody else out! (me? That’s another story. Lol!)
This is a great post. Would have been perfect to have this time last year!
The only part that continues to boggle my mind (if I think about it) is what it means when these commitment-phobic guys move on to the next girl and stick with them much, much longer and have – what looks like – a committed relationship? Don’t get me wrong – I don’t envy the next girl. I’m very glad my xEUM is out of my life. But this is just something that I’m wondering about. Does the commitment fear just vanish in certain cases?
TT
Let’s say his fear of commitment did just vanish. Does that make any difference?
Well, to me it makes a difference, especially if the next girl was right after. How can someone just switch like that?
TeaTime, the topic you’re referring to is addressed here https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/what-keeps-you-up-a-night-pondering-whether-theyre-a-better-person-in-a-better-relationship-without-you/ here https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/hes-with-someone-else-why-her-and-not-me/ and here https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/is-he-different-with-her-why-did-he-choose-her-instead-of-me-when-youre-not-the-one-or-they-move-on-to-a-fresh-victim/
I’ll put it this way – I committed when I changed and I don’t owe the last guy I dated before I did or anyone else an explanation. It was nothing to do with them. I was in a different space and time. With your attitude, if you go on two dates with one person and they go on ten dates with another and so on and so forth, every single person who has ever come into contact with you through dating and relationships ‘owes’ you an explanation or shouldn’t have committed until you had. That’s just not even going to happen. Shit happens, things change, people are their own person. I know someone that couldn’t commit to any woman. One day after he heard a woman accuse of something that at least 20 other women had. It got through. He stuck it out with the next woman. Another guy, he committed to the next woman because his ex got married. Another decided to commit because he was 45 and living at home with his mother and had no more ‘legitimate’ reasons to cling to. It was time to grow up.
I would also suggest https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/its-not-about-you/ and https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/i-cant-believe-they-dont-want-me-syndrome/ and https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/why-its-important-for-you-to-stop-blaming-yourself-even-when-you-want-to-make-it-all-about-you/ Incidentally they’re all better posts for the subject of your comment which is only loosely related to this topic.
Nat, the sad part is that I’ve read all of those before (maybe I’ve even commented at the time?) and as I read what you wrote I was nodding and agreeing because I know very well all of it is true. Of course what a guy does with the next girl has nothing to do with me. With my xEUM, I could truly say I don’t care one bit! I guess for me I keep getting stuck on the ‘how’ – how in the world a guy can have a switch around overnight. I know I can never have that answer, and as you say it is none of my damn business!! But you see, even though I’m aware, this remains the achilles heel to all the work I’ve done on my self esteem. When I start thinking of this, and my mind zooms in on searching for impossible answers, my mood dips and pulls down my self confidence.
I just have to stop overthinking. This overthinking had stopped for a while but it’s back again because of how my life has changed in the last month. Thanks for the reality check. I know I can always count on your comments to give me a well-deserved kick in the arse back to reality.
Nat, I love this one. I laughed out loud when I read it, its such a light hearted way of explaining the crazy of eu’s. I seem to have a gift for finding the ones where I’m going along happy as a clam expecting the relationship to naturally progress and then bam, they freak out. I am to blame though because I tend to dismiss minor boundary violations in the beginning and ignore or redefine my gut instincts of red flags.
I did want to comment to you Tea Time. I dont care if my last eum ‘changes’ with the next girl. My opinion of him will never change, because he cannot take back the assclown way that he treated me. I dont think poor character can be changed overnite. I may have low self esteem which has lead to bad choices but I do not have poor character.
It had never occured to me that my stand-offish-ness had created such a serious problem, so that’s a new idea for me.
I have been told (pre-ex EUM!!) that I was:
“too picky”
“have a sign on my forehead saying “Piss off – not interested”
And here was me thinking I was only like that with assh$les! I saw assh$les everywhere; but failed to see the guys I was actually interested in were too often the biggest assh$les of them all. The decent guys were frightened off very quickly. The chancers took a chance – sometimes they got somehere, sometimes they didn’t. If I decided I really liked a guy – I went on the chase for him – and always lost, eventually.
Oh dear, what a mess it’s all been.
When told often enough, that my “piss off – not interested” sign was a problem I tried to be more receptive, drop the growl and give guys a chance but I think I too often replaced it with the more alluring, “flirty in an aloof and mysterious sort of way” sign thinking this was me being more receptive, but I was actually putting myself right up there up for the chase – then the drop.
With the ex EUM, when I dropped the aloof, windswept and mysteriously interesting sign and actually became genuinely receptive he vanished off the face off the earth after 3/4 months. I was 39/40 years old at the time and believe it or not, this was my first experience of this kind of behaviour: there one minute gone the next. I was floored. Literally. But not one to be beaten, and liking a love challenge myself, I left it for a long time… got back in touch with him… and here I am – ten years later – ten years of lather, rinse repeat. Me mug? Yep.
You are right when you say Nat that unless you get out and get out fast, what once upon a time was gobsmackingly unbelievably hurtful behaviour becomes your normal. I had, for the most part (other than periods of clarity when the denial bubble just wasn’t holding out too well) completely normalised the most abnormal relationship with a man I have ever had.
I am getting it now; so okay – even though it’d be harder to carry off either at my age – no more “piss off -not interested” and no more “flirty in an aloof and mysterious sort of way”. Just me, right up front. Take it or leave it And give me the same back or your history. Fast.
That doesn’t work either.
Kayle:
“that doesn’t work either”
That made me laugh! No, I’m sure you’re right! 🙂
I think, truth, is I am just all out of steam with difficult relationships. I don’t have the patience for “games” anymore – from him or from me. If there’s ever another man asking me out, he doesn’t need to be perfect, just “genuine” – surely that’s not too much to ask! And if I were to even get a sniff that I’m not getting “genuine” – I’m gone.
Fearless, you just described me. I used to let them chase me to show me how much they wanted me…I felt better about myself (validation, ego stroke) that I was worth the chase, but when the chase is over and I act like I want them around and start to expect from them, poof, then they have doubts, start acting up or become assclowns and tell me I have issues ( I do, actually but am workin on that) and stop chasing me. I think that I appeared EU to them and seemed like a safe bet to chase because it seemed I wouldn’t want to get close….but uh oh, I actually wanted them to love me and show up on time, even tell the truth and this was not part of their plan. We both showed up with hidden agendas….mine to have someone prove his love by chasing me and CATCHING me and him to chase an uncatchable girl for fun and challenge only, not to really CATCH me.
I’ve currently been dating a new guy for about a month. I try to call and initiate equally, not get too wrapped up in him and try not to get completely freaked out when he is not chasing me 24/7. I started to have a little internal freak out self doubt session when I didn’t hear from him as soon as I wanted to. I didn’t freak out openly and just took a deep breath, he didn’t do anything wrong, it was me getting panicky. He ended up inviting me over for dinner and we had a really lovely time (no sex!). We are only dating and he doesn’t have to live up to my unspoken time table. That said, if he becomes hot and cold instead of progressing, I will opt out. My hope is to manage this with no drama, no crying …..just be smart and see what is real right in front of me, and act accordingly. I am using all of Nat’s posts and principles as my base. Let’s see if I do better this time. If any man becomes cold, or backs away without a reasonable explanation ( shit does happen sometimes), then it’s a done deal for me from now on. If impending commitment makes a guy run……let him run. I don’t want a man I have to coerce or beg for.
I swear this becomes more complicated by the minute!! Its really exhausting having to decipher what everything means or doesnt mean! I feel like a neurotic mess out there in the dating world hoping to seriously just find a nice, NORMAL guy. But i have to make sure i dont play too hard to get, but also not be so hard either. I cant believe what he says 100% in the beginning because i have to wait until i see if his “actions” match up but then even when his actions match up, i still have to wait to see if this is really for the long haul or if it just temporary during this “chase” phase when he is blowing “hot” or if indeed he can stay for the long haul. But even then, when i feel “safe” and start to recipricate, it could be then that I have to be careful because thats what could cause him to back away and turn “cold”. Seriously, i am starting to think there is an epidemic going on with men. Something in our society that is raising more and more “EUM’s”. But what about us women? When can we be ourselves and let go? When can we feel “safe” and unguarded? Perhaps there is no perfect dynamic? What if i am EU as well but the best scenario for me to be in is in finding that man that is ME when i meet an EUM. That guy that will try and stay no matter what rather than the tables being turned and having me be the one that is more invested. Is there any truth to when they say: “Find someone who is more in love with you than you are with them” is that the way to go so that we avoid pain and heartache?? I dont know NML i am having a hard time trying to understand this one. I guess if you have gone 6 months with no issues than you’re in the clear??? I agree with Broke that because i know i have the propensity to get close, want a relationship, be committed etc… i have to screen them first to evaluate their level of interest. So many times this has happened to me where i meet someone, they are the one’s calling/texting/ wanting to go out, making plans etc and it feels great and then BOOM! I begin to give back and it all comes to a halt. It is extremely disappointing i have to say and exhausting. No wonder we have huge walls and are weary, i mean really…what are we supposed to do?? It is a self protective reflex, one that i dont care to let go of because its the only way i dont get too emotionally invested too soon and its the only way…
Offtrack
If you have good self-esteem, good boundaries, trust your judgement, are happy with yourself, behave authentically, if your values and lifestyle are in alignment, you’re self-aware, if you don’t treat every date as the last chance salon, if you’ve no room for co-dependency and drama, if you proceed with a reasonable level of trust, you’ll recognise that in other people. And likeminded people will recognise it in you.
You can’t find those things in another person if you don’t have them yourself. It seems like a long list, and there’s even more to it than that, but at it’s simplest it’s about good self-esteem.
Walls, self-protectivenss and wariness will not get you a good relationship. Neither will throwing yourself 100% at every person who comes your way. It’s not a halfway house between the two. It’s a whole different country that, firstly your find by yourself, and THEN meet a fellow citizen.
Um, this isn’t entirely accurate because it negates the existence of people who HAVE all those things and that people just don’t know what it looks like sometimes because they’re all acculturated a different way. I know in my case, I really had no idea that there were that many bad flaky neurotic crazy etc. people in the universe or that people THINK I am because of their own ideas. I didn’t have any reason to be on guard or “build” trust the way others are TAUGHT to and people honestly think I’m just blanket distrustful because of the way the EXPECT me to relate to them a certain way because they all got the same training. It’s really not cool or my fault. And I can pretty much pinpoint when in my life it started happening. I just had no idea until now why.
Hi Off Track,
I was reading your post and found your words so poignant because they describe perfectly how I have felt (and still often feel now)…
And how DO you ever really know for certain, that someone is genuine and “for real” in their interest and feelings for you?
I honestly don’t know. My gut instinct is to say “time”…that, over a period of time, you get to see, as Natalie has so often said, “If the words match up with their actions”…maybe ultimately, it just comes down to good old fashioned “luck”…the timing, the circumstances, etc…I do think that, on some level, you instinctively know if someone is worthy and valuable of your time.
Maybe that’s the most difficult part of it all: just allowing ourselves to trust our instincts…and loving and respecting ourselves enough to do so. My best thoughts to you 🙂
That’s pretty much it, yeah. There are no guarantees and, if you want to have a relationship at some point, you have to make yourself vulnerable. You will potentially be taken for a ride, but its not about trusting the other person 100% – you can’t. It’s about trusting yourself 100% – to act in your own interests, to be a good jusdge of character, to be strong, to stand up for yourself, to get over the hurt if things don’t work out. You have to get to that place first, before you can engage with another person in a healthy way. It’s not about them – it’s about YOU.
It would be the equivalent of wanting to know for sure that nothing bad was going to happen to you tomorrow. Impossible to know. Your options are either to deal with whatever may come your way, or lock yourself in the house. I hope this helps.
“It would be the equivalent of wanting to know for sure that nothing bad was going to happen to you tomorrow. Impossible to know. Your options are either to deal with whatever may come your way, or lock yourself in the house”.
That’s a really great analogy, Minky, and it certainly does help.
@Off track: These are great questions and I sense a real desperate attempt to figure it all out. Your questions like: “When can we be ourselves and let go? When can we feel “safe” and unguarded? Perhaps there is no perfect dynamic?” are questions I’ve asked myself too. The way I’ve started to see relationships is like this: You can take HIGH RISK ACTIONS (which for many of us here would be being vulnerable, being available, being ourselves etc.) with SAFE people & situations. My pattern was taking what are HIGH RISK ACTIONS for me (vulnerability, trust, loyalty, intimacy etc.) with UNSAFE people & situations. So how do you know who’s safe and who’s not? You date, try people on, see what they’re like. How do you know what they’re like and if they fit? You spend time with them, get to know their character and values (something I always failed to investigate). And what if their values/character etc. just don’t align with yours? You leave the relationship. No explanation. No ambivalence. No indecisiveness. No consultation even. And how do you know when it’s time to leave, if ever? Healthy self-esteem will tell you. That’s why there’s such an emphasis on it on this site I think. Healthy self-esteem – and all that it encompasses – IS the ANSWER to EVERY question because healthy self-esteem will give you the answers when the questions arise. Right then. Right there.
“And how do you know when it’s time to leave, if ever? Healthy self-esteem will tell you. That’s why there’s such an emphasis on it on this site I think. Healthy self-esteem – and all that it encompasses – IS the ANSWER to EVERY question because healthy self-esteem will give you the answers when the questions arise. Right then. Right there.”
DAMN STRAIGHT. *applause*
How funny I was just talking about this very subject yesterday with friends. Thanks for reinforcing the Code Amber/Code Red behavior, that alone should save lots of heartache down the road with these guys.
Actually as we were sitting having coffee at the bookstore a couple next to us we could tell was listening to our conversation. Whenever we said something about EUMs he made a face, I got the impression he was realizing his own behavior and she would slightly nod her head in agreement to what was being said. I said “Baggage Reclaim” several times in hopes she’d make a note of it.
I was definintely gulity of being distrusting and aloof in turn attracting the types that were about chasing… I can see how unhealthy that is now and can see my own unavailability in the mix. The roles reverse once you give into the illusion of things being real between you..
My ex EUM was a major commitment phobe! After a year and a half of ambiguity he agreed to call me his ‘girlfriend’ (yes I was stupid enough to wait it out this long all whilst dealing with a load if bullshit). Anyway he remained a commitment phobe, for the next 4.5 years. The part where Natalie mentions “guys who resist committment really resist responsibilty, which means they’d never really think about how they impact others bc that is responsibility”. This statement explains my ENTIRE relationship in a nutshell. He did NOT want the responsibility of a mutually caring, selfless, loving relationship. He wanted the benefits with ZERO responsibility! I carried my end of the relationship, and his, for years. We were BOTH looking out for him, but who was looking out for me?! I wasn’t! neither was he. I made a lot of mistakes investing in this person. And shortly after I broke up with him after years together, he had another girl (aka. Victim). Big on needing to be heavily pursued too, bc I’m reserved, been burned obviously…but I need to let that go. I rarely hit on anyone, I usually wait to be pursued and even then make them work for it…and natalie’s right, I ended up with an EU chaser! I need to learn some healthier habits. It’s been a year and a half since my break up and I still struggle to cope some days…I still miss the companionship. But I’ve also been alone since them and haven’t put myself out there.
A good refresher, Natalie – I went back and re-read your ‘landmarks of a healthy relationship’ piece again, which is really helpful.
I need to do my groundwork at the moment because I have this particular chap in the offing. So I need to remember to ‘slow my roll’, take my time, give him time, and ensure that I really am emotionally available.
And you know what? I think I might be getting there. I wouldn’t have found this guy interesting a couple of years ago – in fact, that’s when I first met him, and I didn’t give him a second glance.
But now that I’ve been burned, and am learning to face my own considerable commitment phobia, I see things and people differently.
He IS shy, but he’s also capable of coming up and talking to me when he wants to, so I feel no need to ‘pursue’, but just to be open. The waiting is the hardest part for me.
Anyway, we’ll see. (not putting all eggs in one bastard …)
Ha! “Not putting all our eggs in one bastard”. That is hilarious!
RisingUp, I wish it were original, but it’s a quote from Dorothy Parker – now THERE was a woman with men problems, and mostly of her own making. If BR had been around, Dottie would possibly have been a much happier lady!
Again, thank God I found this site here in Canada. Your posts always seem to be just what I need at just the right time! Struggling so much to get over my long distance future faker, fast forwarder. Every day want to contact him to ask why? Thanks to your posts I know why as hard as it is to admit, going on 3 weeks no contact but tortured by “what might gave been”….the plans for me to move, the kids we were going to have, how he lived me, wanted to spend the rest of his life with me, after a MONTH…of course I wasn’t interested at first, know I’m too good for him mo matter hgorgeous and charming he is!!! I questioned the “crazy talk” but of course ge meant every word…until I started reciprocating…then the back off and vanishing act! He had the ever present “ex”, now doubting she was ever an ex at all. They just went on family vacation together “for the kids” ha ha!! I know I am an idiot to still care, so I come back here daily for my kick in the head so I don’t contact him. Thank you for helping me better than any of my girlfriends ever could!!
Isla,
That’s an interesting typo you made there, “gave” instead of “have”:
“Thanks to your posts I know why as hard as it is to admit, going on 3 weeks no contact but tortured by “what might GAVE been”….the plans for me to move, the kids we were going to have, how he lived me, wanted to spend the rest of his life with me, after a MONTH…”
If you look back, you will see that it was going to be YOU giving, and HIM taking… Step one: YOU moving to be with him.
Okay, I thought I was starting to sort out me and my long string of EUM/AC’s as well as the exMM until I read this. Every single guy has said that they pursued me for years before I noticed them. I’ve called it my “blind spot”. I know you’ll think this is stupid but I never saw it coming from the time I was 2o something to 50 something. I always thought that we were going for beers after a long, stupid meeting. I swear to god, I didn’t know they e hitting on me. Each EUM/AC and the ex MM , admitted that it took years for me to get a clue. I simply miss the social clues because I see them as colleagues trying to resolve an issue. “All you’re doing is inviting an ever challenge loving dipstick to take a shot. They thrive on your aloofness and distrust.” That’s it, Natalie. You have helped me in identifying my blind spot. The synergy of FBG’s and EUM’s never ceases to amaze me. They thrive on my unavilabilty because they are unavailable and I thrive on their unavaiblity. Now tell me that isn’t simple? The ticking time bomb exploded this time. I’m so sorry for all the betrayed wives. I cannot imagine what his wife of 27 years could be feeling. I wish I could take it all back, hit delete, he would go away, and we would have never met. Sign up to kick me now. Arrragh. What a dweeb I was.
runner, you don’t need anyone here to give you a kicking; you’ll be doing that all by yourself – till you feel like you’ve just done ten rounds with Muhammed Ali! Most of us are here cos we’ve all been “dweebs”. I had no idea there was such a thing as “emotionally unavailable” till I found BR. Boy, did I feel like a dweeb! I was running my relationships with a blind-fold on! That ex EUM of mine? Textbook! Natalie KNOWS him – knows eveything about him; and she hasn’t even met him! Her post here has been my life for ten effing years and I didn’t see it – or I refused to see it… or I didn’t see it as she describes…or I made excuses… or I am seriously thick (and need a good kickin’!) But I couldn’t explain it clearly to myself; I didn’t have the words. I think now I could spot an EUM at a hundred paces! And I know that I NEED to actually seriously look out for *me* and do always what is in my best interests cos no-one else is doing it for me – least of all “him” – the scoundrel!
Hey Fearless,
Thanks for your support, I’m done kicking myself for a while. Gotta heal a bit before I get back in the ring with Ali. It is wonderful to finally start to get some clarity surrounding relationship issues but the light can be blinding once the blindfold starts to unwind. Natalie not only knows HIM, she knows ME!
You are so right about looking out for “me”. I don’t plan on getting into the dating world until I can date with my self-esteem in tow, have addressed my issues, and know I can spot an EUM from 100 paces.
Congratulations to you. You and all the others here are such an inspiration. Thanks all.
Oh my gosh your timing with your articles can be ridiculously scary! I just had an epiphany this afternoon about my last situation. Well actually, it was partially influenced by a conversation with one of my former boyfriends (0ne of the good ones that has forgiven me for mistreating him). He told me that I’ve been spoiled in my relationships and the last one was the only one who never did that. I’m just not used to not getting my way. He is right. Most people who knew about this guy could not believe that me, the independent intelligent analytical chick with a good head on her shoulders, was letting this guy get away with what no other guy has or would be able to. I realized that the reason why I felt so drawn to the last one was because I secretly enjoyed the challenge of pursuing him. I have always been somewhat spoiled when it comes to men, never really had to do too much to get what I want from most of them, and that has always felt boring to me and I never felt very into any of them that gave me what I wanted. So him dragging his feet was something completely different than I usually experience and it peaked my interest. But feeling like you have to pull teeth to get any real intimacy is extremely nerve wracking. I was settling for crumbs just so I could tell myself that I was making progress with him and continue on chasing him. (But oddly enough, through later conversations with his friends I found this guy thrives on the thrill of the chase too, and just that nothing more.) Eventually I felt emotionally exhausted and frustrated so I let him go. But now I think about how much time and energy I put into the chase, I don’t actually know what I would have done had he given me what I wanted…my suspicion is that you are right, I would thought that my mission had been accomplished and would probably have moved on to the next completely unfazed…
Spot on about the whole not being in control thing…I was raised by a control freak who was raised by the control freak from hell, and I’ve only recently begun to realize how those same issues have manifested in my own personality. I always thought that I had escaped that trait, but it’s just dressed in a different outfit. Never felt the need to control anyone else, only myself and my own happiness, and I also never wanted anyone else having control over me. But a desire for control is the same regardless. Starting to figure out how warped that really is…
Not only did my EUM/FF have me believing that he was sincere about a future with me, my friends (and some of his) were fooled as well! I think that he’s the type who’s “in love with love.” Without even taking into consideration the things he said that indicated that he wanted a future (he initiated talk of a future; I didn’t), I could even show you old pics of us together, and you would swear up and down just from the way he looked at me, that he was totally smitten and ‘in love.’
It’s none of my business, and I don’t wish him any ill will, but you cannot keep playing with other people’s heart/emotions and not expect consequences. If he continues to Future Fake his way into unsuspecting women’s hearts, he may very well meet someone who will be so deeply hurt by his actions that he ends up in the hospital or worse. Simply turn on the news, and you can see that crimes of passion happen everyday.
“someone that loves the sprint, not the marathon” and “Don’t make their actions about you”
I swear you always include words that touch on the deepest part of what I am feeling. An inspiring reminder to stay strong and grow in depth and width. Thank you.
Wow–the first type of situation you mention is exactly what I have found myself in repeatedly. I have thought that because I wait longer than the last time before I almost unintentionally find myself in the next friendship/relationship in the making, it will be more “solid”. I am going slowly, cautiously, oh so carefully. Trusting takes so much time. Finally, slowly, I am becoming won over–then WHAM! I see only dust as I hear his wheels screech around the corner. And then I feel a combination of supreme anger (I’ve been used!) and excrutiating embarrassment (haven’t I learned by now?). Your advice is the best (tho easier said than done!!): Don’t date unless you have your self-esteem in tow, have addressed your fears, and have a reasonable level of trust. Many, many thanks for sharing your wisdom!
@Melinda: I love this line: “then I feel a combination of supreme anger (I’ve been used!) and excrutiating embarrassment (haven’t I learned by now?).” You describe my feelings after each of my failed relationships to a tee. This is exactly the place I used to get stuck in: anger at the other person for being manipulative, and then anger at myself for not having learned my lessons. It turned into a: “I HATE you (ex), I hate myself” – I have started to see that hate + hate leaves no room for love, and I just wasn’t going anywhere. I’d never tried this “touchy feely” (lol) self-love stuff before. But I figured now was the time to start trying things I’d never done – so in the beginning of NC (something I’d also never done), when I was working to turn around some pretty brutal self-criticism/blame, the most self-love I could give was: “I HATE you (ex), but I’m alright” – these days it’s more like: “I DUMP you (ex), and I’m just fine”…less hate all round, and little by little more self-love. My mind is turning my heart it seems 🙂 Thanks for your comment!
My ex is totally a commitment phobe who blew cold after 10 months when I started dropping hints about maybe moving in together. It’s been 5 months since we split (he delivered a break up line of ‘I’m not ready for a relationship. You love me more than I do. I am going to work on finding me I think’) I was heartbroken because I really saw a future with him (he tricked me big time), and I found out that 2 months after we split that he was already with someone else.
I still can’t help but still feel like rubbish 5 months on. That I wasn’t good enough, EVEN THOUGH I know he was a tool/assclown/waste of space commitment phobe. It’s hard to deal with rejection, but I am working on my career and getting my mojo back before I start the dating ball rolling agiain.
Katherine, I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I had the same kind of situation and the same bullshit lines and the same shopping around for the replacement straight afterwards.
You WERE good enough, kiddo. You WERE good enough, but he wasn’t. That’s all there is to it. He still IS a tool/assclown/not good enough; it’s just that now he’s someone else’s problem. (This is the bit where you say ‘Hallelujah!’, and really mean it.)
Rejection may hurt, but it’s God’s protection – Natalie has had some good posts on this in the last month or so.
In the meantime, if you feel like rubbish, do some work on that: go the manicure/pedicure/new exercise routine line. Go and get your brows reshaped or your hair colour changed.
Or, finally do that thing you’ve always been meaning to do – no matter how weird – and do it. It’s serious pampering time.
And then, when you DO feel like getting back on the horse, you’ll look a million dollars and it will boost your confidence.
Awesome advice PJM, thank you for caring.
I stumbled upon and have been reading Natalie’s blog since April when I found myself single again, and she is amazing. I agree with you – being set free is undoubtedly a blessing in disguise. He is now someone else’s problem, despite the pain I still feel knowing that that someone else is looking into those beautiful eyes.
So onto bigger and better things, but yes, first I have to work on my self esteem some more. I just started a new job, and have recently changed my exercise routine (including kickboxing and yoga, excellent for stress and self love).
I wish you all the best and thanks again for replying
Katherine
Beautiful eyes aren’t worth it. Beautiful heart is worth is. Believe me.
And when you find ‘beautiful heart’, a pair of very ordinary eyes can suddenly look very, very beautiful to you.
In the meantime – keep kicking!
This article reminded me of my other ex. He future faked and tried to fast forward things. He wanted to meet my parents after a few weeks. And after he knew how I felt, he lost interest in me. Blew hot and cold. Then tried months later to push the restart button. He’s the one that broke NC, NOT me, yet he called me the crazy one! WTF?
Hi All,
Wow, another stunner of insightful thoughts, thank you Natalie and thanks to everyone here for sharing too! It really does help me so much.
Last night, I just happened to see a re-run of SATC and Samantha had been dating this man who pursued her, she showed interest, they went on a few dates, he began talking about “we” as in “We will spend the summer together at my house in the Hamptons” and “We will walk on the beach, eat lobster, make love” and, after they had the requisite sex, they were supposed to meet for dinner the next evening and as Samantha sat there by herself, surrounded by other couples, waiting…and waiting…and waiting for him to show, she realized, after having a few too many glasses of wine, that he wasn’t going to and that he had “future faked” with her.
She was in tears and couldn’t believe she had allowed herself to believe in all this man was telling her…and wow, yet another timely post from Natalie about this the very next day! This made me think of an ex of mine who gave me both a key to his apartment, saying what a big deal it was, that he had never trusted ANY woman enough to do that AND he also gave me his father’s wedding ring, saying, “I want you to put it on my finger when the time is right”…and of course I believed everything he was saying as he seemed so adamant about it. Sigh.
Later, of course, when he realized just “what” he had begun with me, he started to back off, telling me about dreams he had been having of his house being broken into, and his “prized” guitar collection stolen and how afraid he was of losing himself, etc. It completely blindsided me for sure.
I can only hope I have learned my lesson (s) from these types of men.
I hope that for all of us here.
Lessie, that was a really good post.
It makes me think that we tend to forget that men can be just as emotional as women can: they can let themselves be carried away by a wave of feelings, and then – to their horror – discover that there’s not a lot behind the feelings. And not always to their horror: for some of them, it’s just part of a normal routine of ‘what you have to say to get sex’.
Yesterday (while wasting time at work) I read the following website, and was really, really grossed out by what these guys thought about the women they went home with for the first time. It is an excellent wake-up call for anyone who thinks that getting into bed in a hurry is a way of obtaining love … !
I actually found that article really funny! I’m a fan of casual sex (if i’m single obviously) so none of that came as a huge surprise.
Hi PJM,
Thank you so much for sharing this link! Wow, it IS a bit scary!
I think you’re right on with this comment:
“It makes me think that we tend to forget that men can be just as emotional as women can: they can let themselves be carried away by a wave of feelings, and then – to their horror – discover that there’s not a lot behind the feelings”…
I think both men and women can often be overwhelmed by feelings of infatuation and mistake it for something much more profound. And the thing is, when one person is doing this, they then, perhaps unknowingly, give this vibe to the other person who in turn thinks, “Wow, they’re really into me and this is so great” and before you know it, without even really actually taking the TIME to think about your own feelings, you become carried away on their feelings for you and, you’re caught up, up and away in the bliss of these “clouded visions” yourself.
And then, it’s almost as if, at some point, the bubble bursts, for one of you, and it can almost feel like having the veil of illusions pierced, ie., “What? You mean it’s NOT real, after all”…and both of you end up walking away in a terrible haze of confusion.
At least, that is how it has felt to me sometimes. Sigh.
Okay, now I feel as if I need to go and buy something 🙂
This post just makes me overwhelmingly glad that I have lost my interest in dating and all the games that go along with so much of it, Nat.
Having healthy self-esteem and boundaries, paying attention to ‘amber light’ behavior’ – well, that is all true and great advice.
Better to not even bother with going into the minefield!
When you don’t want kids any more, and your sex drive is gone, the only thing as man is good for is, well, is?
Enjoying your own company makes a man redundant!
Enjoying the company of male and female friends – real friends, who really care about you and who enjoy your company – is even better.
Being single is so NOT about being alone! That’s when the problems start …
Just stumbled upon the biography of a woman from the past, and I was impressed about how her personality evolved (if the story is true):
First hopelessly in love with a guy from “above” her (Joseph Chamberlain) who apparently didn’t even respect her talents, and later on married to someone from “below” together with whom she became amazingly successfull (and hopefully happy).
Of course, not all of us are rich, beautiful ladies who would want to marry a plain, poor guy and fill the rest of our lives with “copious research and constant socializing”. Many will prefer “sex and babies”, and this is just all right, I guess!
But for me the point is that in her thirties, she learned to rely on her own talents, while in her early twenties, she was desperately seeking external validation (from Chamberlain). I think overall she’s a great role model!
Fantastic link!
One of the best books I’ve read on this – and it was kind of an accidental ‘self-help’ book for me – was Virginia Nicholson’s ‘Singled Out: How Two Million Women
Survived Without Men After the First World War ‘.
This book opened my eyes to what a whining selfpitying mess I was in danger of becoming, through being ‘unsuccessfully’ single. It also gave me a ton of ideas about how to be successfully and happily single.
If women could do this kind of stuff nearly 100 years ago with practically no rights or benefits, how much more could I do, today, with every advantage I’ve got? It really put things in perspective for me.
Absolutely love that book too, very inspiring. And her more recent one about women in WWII
I used to believe “commitment” meant “putting up with abuse”. I thought “commitment” meant starving myself if a guy told me I was eating too much (although I’m seriously underweight!!!), or it meant giving up my beloved career if a guy didn’t like working women and so on… I called myself a “commitment phobe” because I always refused to commit to things like this.
Abusive parents can do horrible things to us. My mother called me “horribly selfish” whenever I refused to do something that was bad for me or made me unhappy, and I believed her. I always told myself she abused me only because of that (my “commitment phobia”), and that I could have stopped her abuse if I had been (even) more compliant.
Sorry if I often seem to digress a little. It’s just that Nat’s posts often trigger unexpected insights for me, and I somehow feel I need to express them publicly…
Grace, the whole different country you mention sounds wonderful. I hope I’ll get there someday!
EllyB,
I get what you’re saying. If we have a crappy role model for commitment, then we are scared of having that kind of relationship as adults, then it’s not really commitment we are scared of, but some distorted version of a relationship that scares us.
@ICanDoBetter: Thanks for putting in a nutshell what I was trying to say! That was exactly my point.
EllyB, I’m hoping that the mist I see on the horizon is actually the border of this country, and not just another mirage …
Oh I can totally identify with you. I always thought that I was commitment phobic until I looked and realized that what I actually feared was having a relationship like the ones I had been exposed to. It sucks when your blueprint for relationships is dysfunctional. It sucks even more when you know it, but also didn’t have any other positive ones to counter so you don’t even feel like you know how to have a healthy, functional relationship…but knowing that is truly an important step, because after that we are actually able to make steps towards getting the relationships we truly want. I wish you well in that journey as well.
Oh, and a tip that I received from one of my friends a few years back I will hand off to you. Everyone human being is selfish in some way shape or form, and it’s not always a bad thing. Sometimes it’s unavoidable and you have to be. And a sidenote, manipulative people have a tendency to throw the “selfish” bomb towards others when they’re not getting their way. Selfish people get upset when you’re unwilling to cater to their selfish needs, and they know that it’s a trigger word that works on decent people a lot of the time…But, most of the time what we’ve been taught to believe is selfishness is actually something entirely different, as there is a difference between being purely selfish and acting with self concern. Being selfish would mean that you never consider anyone else, or you consider yourself and you interests at the expense of others. Being self concerned, on the other hand, means that you do care and have regard for others, you just consider yourself and your well being as important as well. Everyone is better off if you actually consider all parties involved, and to do anything else would be irresponsible. Guess you could say I’m going through my “selfish” phase right about now…
Wow Lia, that’s spooky! I had a conversation with my therapist just yesterday about “selfishness”, and we said pretty much just what you wrote!
Lia – excellent comment! “Manipulative people have a tendency to throw the “selfish” bomb towards others when they’re not getting their way” – so true! One of my exes used to do this ALL the time. He even called me ‘selfish’ once because i was going to go outside for a smoke and wasn’t going to wait for him to finish his drink so he could come too. I thought he was one of my ‘healthy’ exes, but looking back now i am not so sure…
It’s typical of narcissists to call other people “selfish” even if they are themselves the most selfish people on the planet (which was absolutely true for my mother). Narcs are masters of projection!
I had a similar conversation with my counselor who told me “You are the most important person in the world!”. At first I was appalled, but then I got her point. It’s completely normal to put yourself first, unless it means doing harm to others. All healthy people act like this.
Pardon me for possibly confusing this… what is an “offing ticking time bomb”? Wondering if this is either lost in translation (American English vs. Queen’s English) or something that’s never even been in my vocabulary before.
As far as pursuing, #1 seems fairly accurate for me… in the past at least. (Since no one is in the picture, can’t really say if this is still accurate for me.)
Gonna re-read this. Good food for thought.
Spinster,
Would it help you to see it written like this – The “Commitment-is-in-the-Offing” Ticking Time Bomb. It’s only when they realise that a committed relationship is in the offing (i.e. expected/imminent because you have now started to show feelings for them that they led you to believe they had for you) that EUMs and ACs start back-pedalling on all their hard chasing, Future Faking and Fast Forwarding.
By the way, scenario #1 is the most applicable to me too. My ex could Future Fake and Fast Forward for England (or rather, Scotland, as he originally came from Aberdeen)! He did the handing-over-the-key-to-his-home thing within the first 2 weeks of us getting together. He’s an airline captain, and (also within the first 2 weeks) he made me his official “staff travelling companion” with much fanfare, saying that we would spend weekends for free in exciting places around the world that he flew to. When no travelling was forthcoming after around 4 or 5 months, I modestly asked if we might spend a Saturday night away in Dublin, as he was rostered to fly there on an overnight stop. You would not believe the number of reasons why I apparently wouldn’t actually be able to fly there & back with him (or anywhere else), including that I wouldn’t be allowed to travel in the jump seat in the cockpit with him and his first officer because of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Er…..hellooo….that happened over *eight years* before our relationship began!!! Lame, lame, lame! He was so commitment-phobic by the end of our year together, when I flew thousands of miles to join him in Argentina (at my own vast expense), that he was audibly nervous when we discussed beforehand on Skype about sharing the perfectly-adequate space in the flat he was renting out there, and I could see him on the video link practically breaking out in a cold sweat about it. By the end of our holiday (and our relationship), when he literally ran away at Heathrow airport, he was totally unrecognisable as the charming man who had chased me so hard in the early days that he’d nearly scared me off (red flag of my uneasy gut feeling which I stupidly ignored). Hopefully never again!
How amazing. Are you sure he was actually a pilot, and not just a check-in operator or ground crew? or worse, he actually worked in an office somewhere and was totally lying?
Lol, PJM 😀 – I now have this picture of my ex being like Frank Abagnale Jnr. in the film “Catch Me If You Can” where he faked different careers, including being a pilot! The one thing about him that I can be sure of is that he is genuinely a commercial pilot of over 30 years’ standing. We first met 20 years ago at a local flying club we both belonged to. A lot of airline pilots flew light aircraft from there in their spare time, and I should really have known better than to get involved with him as I hardly ever saw any of them be anything other than classic EUMs and ACs. If you think about it, an airline crew member’s lifestyle of constant travelling and overnight stops is perfect for a dyed-in-the-wool commitment-phobe. Very few of the ones at my club had relationships that lasted very long. Guess I mistakenly thought, with all the intense chasing and many “hallmarks” of a serious relationship (I really did get the complete works from him), that he & I would be the exception to the rule despite all the evidence to the contrary that I had observed at our club for years beforehand. Incidentally, he’s also yet another example of how a person’s IQ/career status/work responsibilities and even long-term commitment to their job are absolutely no indication at all of their emotional intelligence, maturity, sense of personal responsibility or ability to commit to a relationship.
@RadioGirl: That’s so funny! I used to be a hobby pilot too, and I met quite a few professional pilots there who fit your description to a tee. Luckily, I never got romantically involved with any of them. However, I think they contributed to my view that we shouldn’t expect too much from men. They taught me to put up with far too much crap!
There was also a lot of mysogyny around. They used to talk about women (especially flight attendants) as if they were either strange, incomprohensible creatures or disposable objects *sigh*.
Well, I guess some professional pilots are decent husbands/boyfriends. But you probably won’t meet many of them at flying clubs, because for them flying would only be a job and not the center of their lives.
Radio Girl,
Oh wow, this post resonated with me A LOT because of my own situation with the key producing man…I even remember thinking at the time, because (a) it was a pink key (he chose the color) AND (b) he had “Princess” engraved on it as well, “Wow, he really is into me big time and really wanting us to be a couple”…and…sigh…again.
I am sorry this happened to you as well. Why do we always think that keys or even rings symbolize so much?! When I asked a very dear male friend of mine about this he said, “Darling, I think he meant it at the time” and I said, “What does that mean” and he said, “I think it means that he thought he meant it when he said it and wanted to believe it himself”…and…I was still confused!
Sending good thoughts to you.
Lessie,
I think your friend was right – they mean it ‘at the time’, but this is a very irresponsible and selfish way to exist (no surprises there, considering the men this applies to!). It’s also a very childlike way to be. Like small children who get very excited about a new toy and then get bored of it a few days later. Or kids who beg for a pet and then don’t want to feed it/ take it for a walk/ clean out its tank/hutch/litter tray. These guys get swept up in the novelty and excitement. They don’t think of the repercussions or the effect it will ahve on the other person. They’re swept up in their own fantasy – they have to be to come out with the stuff they do – how can you logically decide you want to live with someone after a matter of weeks?! It’s madness if you think about it.
It would be like promising someone you could lend them £1000 to get them out of a tight spot, without checking your bank account, getting carried away by how amazingly kind and generous the action makes you, how good it makes you feel, then discovering you only have £10 to your name. They shouldn’t have been offering the £1000 in the first place! Then again, we don’t have to take them at their word – especially if they’re making outlandish statements (or moving way too fast).
I’m afraid those guys do those things mainly… because they work. A guy with whom I had a weird “friendship” of four weeks (it wasn’t even dating) and who turned out to be a big fat AC used to go on and on about a property in the countryside his family owned. He often mentioned he wanted to take me there.
The odd thing was:
1.) Right from the start, I was sure he didn’t mean it.
2.) The idea didn’t even appeal to me, because I’m totally a city person who at that time lived in the country herself and hated it. I wanted to hang out downtown (where he had an appartment), and not go someplace in the country. He should have known that, because I mentioned it frequently.
Then why did he talk about the country home anyway? I guess he just gave it a shot because it had worked well as a “bait” for many other female victims in the past….
Another case of: This had nothing to do with me but everything with him!
Lessie,
Sending good thoughts to you, too. My heart has gone out to so many of the ladies who have been sharing almost identical stories to my own on BR. I suffered a severe breakdown with anxiety attacks at the end of my relationship in February, to the extent that I could barely continue getting on the train up to London and function properly at work, but I’m starting to feel a lot stronger and more positive after eventually rejecting his ego-driven offer to be post-breakup “friends” and sticking to NC for almost 3 months now. Natalie and the more long-standing ladies on here are absolutely right – proper NC and working on self-love, self-care, self-trust and self-respect are the *only* way to recover from the trauma (and I don’t think that’s too strong a word) of a relationship with an EUM or AC.
“I think it means that he thought he meant it when he said it and wanted to believe it himself”. I can understand what your male friend was saying here. Commitment phobes do actually crave a loving and affectionate relationship to try and escape from the emptiness they feel inside, and if they are prone to the Future Fakery thing with you I think they are often actually faking it to themselves too for a while (until they realise that Ticking Time Bomb is threatening to go off in their face). Turns out my ex is quite a fantasist. He does the fantasy thing to his teenage daughter, friends and associates – and to himself – every bit as much as he does it to his girlfriends. I don’t even think he’s aware he’s doing it, and I also think he truly believes all that he says and does *at the time*. So I’ve no doubt that he really did feel and desperately want to believe that he was very deeply in love with me for a while. Even months after our breakup, he still texted that “we were so in love”, and he probably did still believe this was the truth on some fantasy level that didn’t involve a real-life commitment to me.
Radio Girl, Fearless, Magnolia, Minky and Everyone,
And “wow” again…reading your comments sets off the “light bulb” part of my brain and I have yet more “a ha” moments.
Radio Girl: you wrote, “I think the lack of confrontation in a relationship is a part of being emotionally unavailable – one of those things I squirm ” and this reminded me SO much of my EU separated but married man who told me that, with his wife, they had NEVER had an argument in over 16 years of marriage! And they have 3 children as well! And I remember saying to him, “So you’ve never even disagreed about issues with the children” and he said “No, we respect each other” and I remember thinking at the time, “That’s great but it doesn’t seem very realistic to me at all”…
Magnolia: “Showed me that some dudes think of women as accessories to the houses they own. In fact, once, when I was in ex’s hot tub, he even said, “Wow, you look like you come with the house.” Yes, my EU guy said to me, as we were laying together, my head resting on his shoulder, “Its like you were made to be with me, you fit so well”…and at the time I thought, “Oh, that’s so sweet” but now, after reading what you wrote I am thinking, “Ahh, accessory”…that’s very interesting, it hadn’t occurred to me in that way.
Fearless: I too, am sorry this happened to you but wow, talk about a “Daniel Cleaver” type moment, to actually RUN away! It is funny, albeit in a sad way. Gosh!
Minky: excellent analogy with getting caught up in the initial excitement (such as having a new pet). As Natalie says “It’s the idea of responsibility and having to BE THERE” they are rejecting. This is so true!
So many great insights from all of you! As always, thank you thank you thank you 🙂
There is a line from a song in the Grey Album: “Young ho with that house, is so necessary …” where the guy is making a list of things he requires (next is, “no bra with that blouse, is so necessary”). That line reminded me of the ex who handed me a key to his new house very quickly, and your story of a key with “princess” on it reminds me of the song. Showed me that some dudes think of women as accessories to the houses they own. In fact, once, when I was in ex’s hot tub, he even said, “Wow, you look like you come with the house.”
But after many months, when I began asking if he might follow up on the offers to put a writing desk in a room he never used, so that I might write when I was over, he began quickly changing the subject.
I was also not supposed to ever expect that the fancy dinners would happen at my request. If he wanted to take me out three nights a week, fine, but when I took a chance and named a posh place I’d like to go, he barely registered it, then took one of his harem friends there three nights later.
Re “he meant it at the time”. I DO get it. Think about something you really like – say shoes or handbags. I love handbags. When I buy a new one I think “This is THE ONE. I love this handbag! I don’t have to buy another one again. I put my stuff in it. I show it off to my colleagues. I even put it on the coffee table and look at it. If that handbag was a person it would be thinking, “Wow, Grace really digs me”. And I do. Then a few weeks/months later I’m back on the internet looking at … handbags” Novelty IS exciting. A new toy. A new car. A new hobby. Yippee!
Yes, a person isn’t a thing or entertainment. But some people really will treat you that way if you let them.
I think a mature person with a sense of responsibility, even if they do REALLY REALLY LIKE YOU isn’t going to promise the moon on a stick. They’re aware that infatuation is very nice but isn’t permanent, that you need to get to know someone before committing, that it’s a BIG DEAL that needs to be backed up.
Think about it, to give your key to someone you’ve known for two weeks is a bit nutty, whoever you/they are.
That “princess” thing? Makes me angry! That EUM of mine started calling me “princess” about 3/4 of the way through our ‘relationship’. Should be a compliment? I didn’t think so. It really grated with me; I had to grit my teeth everytime he used it; he woudn’t even make me or call me his girlfriend yet he thought “princess” was a suitable appellation WTF is that? Eventually, I couldn’t suffer it any longer and told him to stop calling me that; that in the circumstances it was patronising and made me think that he must think I am stupid. He stopped. Then I felt bad cos I knew I had hurt his feelings – like he thought he was making me feel special and I told him to stop doing that, which was why I felt I couldn’t really say anything about it until I just coudn’t bear him to say it one more time.
Some princess I turned out to be – humph!
fearless
i got princess too. and sweetheart. in my case i think it saved him the embarrassment of getting names mixed up
Thank you for the clarification RadioGirl & grace.
Radio:
“when he literally ran away at Heathrow airport,”
This makes me laugh because when I have used that phrase about the ex EUM: “he ran away” I always thought the person on the other end of my conversation did not get that I meant he *literally* ran away – that I was never using a figure of speech!
My sister said to me recently that I must have had loads of arguments with (insert ex EUM name here). I said, no, never, we never argued, certainly not for more than about 45 seconds. She looked at me blankly and I could tell she was thinking that must either be a lie or I had the best relationship ever. I explained by telling her that *he* did not do arguments. At the first sniff of even a “discussion” he ran away. Literally, ran. As an example: one time, we were in my house, I decided to discuss a certain something with him (something he’d told me the day before that I knew wasn’t true)… he was like a rat caught in trap, he left the room (the kitchen) and when he didn’t come back after a few minutes I went through to the sitting room thinking he was in there – nope. He was nowhere. He had left. Not a word. Just lifted his jacket and gone. So we had a wonderful relationship – never a bad word!
Fearless,
“As an example: one time, we were in my house, I decided to discuss a certain something with him (something he’d told me the day before that I knew wasn’t true)… he was like a rat caught in trap, he left the room (the kitchen) and when he didn’t come back after a few minutes I went through to the sitting room thinking he was in there – nope. He was nowhere. He had left. Not a word. Just lifted his jacket and gone. So we had a wonderful relationship – never a bad word!”
I’m sorry, but this is an absolute riot!!!!! Oh Lord!!!!
Allison, yes, it is a riot! – and that’s only one example of countless similar. Once – similar scenario – he had cycled to my house and so he had to “run away” by bike! It became a standing joke between me and a good friend of mine that he was training for the “Tour de France”!
Everytime – and I mean *every* time I tried to have a “talk” with this guy he ran away – literally ran away. I knew there was something very wrong with him; I just didn’t know the words for what it was!
On the phone he always had some reason why he simply could not talk about this “right now” (e.g, ‘I have a meeting in three minutes’ (exasperated tone), or ‘you know that I’m not feeling well’ (woe is me tone). He did this “I have a meeting in three minutes” last time I was talking to him when I fell off the NC wagon in March/April. I told him he has had a meeting in three minutes for the last ten years! He never had anything to say to my quips – cos it’s true.
In the end up it was very rare that I raised anything with him. His reaction made me feel like I was an irritation – a moan; and I did not want to be a moan or an irritation. And I knew he would run away if I persisted beyond one sentence and not come back till he knew all sentences had been dropped! I pretty much gave up trying to be heard. It was utterly pointless and infuriating. He was pointless and infuriating, actually.
Fearless,
Yes, it was exactly the same for us – we never had a single argument in the whole year we were together! We had just landed at Heathrow after a 14-hour flight from Buenos Aires, and had got on perfectly well during all that time – even falling asleep with our arms around each other for some of the journey. It’s as if neither of us wanted to admit that we had compatibility problems that were far more deep-seated than just “getting along” okay (i.e. we didn’t actually have shared values at all, as it turned out). I think the lack of confrontation in a relationship is a part of being emotionally unavailable – one of those things I squirm about when confronting (ha!) myself with the uncomfortable truth that this applies to me every bit as much as it does to him.
Yes, Radio. For me, he avoided confrontation at any cost and I avoided dealing with his confrontation avoidance. It’s all about “avoidance” really, I suppose.
I knew at the time that I should not be having anything more to do wth a man who literally ran away from me when I raised any topic about the “relationship” that he didn’t want to deal with (or be honest about, is the truth really). For a long time after the incident I mentioned when he ran out of my house without a word I scolded myself terribly for not having the courage to tell him to get the eff out of my house (as I should have done) before he had a chance to run away and leave me feeling like a twerp – and like crap.
I just couldn’t deal with it as I knew I should. I was plunged into a pit of despair when he did the “running away” thing and I knew how his running away would affect me so I was always grappling to avoid that situation; I couldn’t bear the distress it caused me later, which could go on for weeks. I always capitulated; I was the one always trying to “fix” it; to get back in his good books so to speak, so that all could be “right” between us again (what a joke!). It was never right. I was a coward, really. I knew I should be kicking him to the kerb; I just didn’t have the nerve to do it. We were two cowards thegither – not a good mix.
Sorry for being the blogger hogger here (well, not that sorry as I’m doing it anyway!) but your aeroplane story had me reminded about a flight I took with my ex EUM (mainly cos we didn’t cuddle the whole flight!).
We had just spent a great weekend away in London (as we did sometimes as he’d have meetings down there) where we had done a lot of cuddling and a lot of “coupley” things together. For all the world a couple – like an old well-married couple, comfortable with each other, affectionate and caring.
But… on the (fairly short) flight home to Scotland he barely uttered a word. He never touched me, never turned his head in my direction. He simply sat staring fixedly for the whole flight at a green dot on a screen above his seat which indicated the flight path of the plane – it showed where we were on the map (you know the thing).
I read a magazine that I didn’t want to read so that I had something else to do other than look my own green dot above my own seat. I occasionally turned to look at him, looked at the dot on his screen to see if it was doing anything exciting yet which might explain his fascination with it then I’d go back to my mag. I was bored stiff. Aside from that, I thought to myself… this guy is truly weird, what *is* his problem? But I was also very angry that after the “close” weekend we’d just spent, that I had now seemingly morphed into a stranger on a plane.
And not even an interesting one at that. He had utterly disengaged. So cold. I shuddered then. I shudder now, still.
Heh damn I wish I could say we never argued. My exN got off on the arguments because he *always* had to win. Even when I would try to say “Can’t we just agree to disagree?” – Nope! It had to be his way or the highway. I have a lifetime issue with not being heard that goes back to my mom not expressing empathy when I needed her to, so I would stay in the fight trying so hard to get him to see my side. But he would talk round and round and it was just sooo exhausting! He just couldn’t let it go and the guy can talk endlessly. By the end, he would’ve somehow managed to turn it around so the entire thing was my fault and I was always in the wrong. Didn’t find out until after we broke up that this is very typical of the Narcissist. He was that way with everyone. No one but him could ever come out on top.. even when you were just looking to come out even.
Carrie & Fearless,
I used to think it was a good thing that I don’t tend to have arguments with those who are closest to me. Funnily enough, I don’t have any problem standing up for myself or family, friends or colleagues in a work situation (I am a union rep) or in a shop etc – i.e. when confronting people who are not close to me. I am polite and assertive in those situations, so I do know that you don’t have to be rude or obnoxious to stand your ground. Now I think my lack of confrontation in my personal life is an indicator of my lack of healthy boundaries and my need to be the Good Girl in order to “earn” validation as a nice person who doesn’t make waves. I developed this people-pleasing behaviour as a successful way to be as a child – it charmed everyone and seemed to make life pleasant and easy. As I posted before, it’s all part of my own emotional laziness and unavailability, which I’ve been struggling for months now to acknowledge and deal with while still striving to be gentle on myself. It’s a really hard balancing act, isn’t it?
spinster
offing refers to commitment not to the time bomb
so commitment is in the offing = commitment seems likely, it’s on the agenda, it’s going to happen.
and once it’s in the offing, the time bomb starts ticking, because one or both parties doesn’t want to commit and sabotages it. I’ve done it myself, though at the time I wasn’t aware of what I was doing. I thought they were just not the right guy (I’m not talking ACs here or even EUMs).
I think if the other person runs when you commit they have issues from a past relationship! Just forget about them and find someone new!
@Spinster: I’m in the same American boat. I think what Nat meant was “Commitment In The Offing” Ticking Time Bomb, as in there is a possible commitment on the table and we’re just waiting for the EUM bomb to go off and ruin it all.
Got it. Thank you Rising Up.
Lessie- Its that sort of behavior from guys that really confuses me. It makes me want to give up on love completely.
Hi FedUp,
Yes, I understand completely! As this is often how I feel, too.
I’m just trying to “keep the faith” about it all as I have to remind myself constantly on a daily basis, to try and have “balance” with life and so, with regards this, I “try” and remind myself that in my past, there have been very good, decent and kind men who I have known and loved and been loved in return and, for one reason or another, it just didn’t work out between us.
Please try not to let yourself get bogged down by the belief that ALL men are like this, they’re not! The key, I think, is in being able to ascertain the men who are worth your time and effort from the ones who are not and it can be a life long process I think!
Stay strong, my best thoughts to you.
It also helps if you identify good men in your life: friend’s boyfriends/ husbands, men in your family, friends, colleagues – men you know are decent people – and use these as a basis for comparison. It’s amazing how quickly the ACs stand out when you have good guys as templates.
Minky, so true! We need to know what ‘healthy’ looks like to know when we are not getting it – or giving it.
Fearless
Many of the relationships/marriages of my close friends and family are hitting the ten+ year mark. Even my youngest brother has settled down and got married after a couple of halfhearted relationships where we were all wondering “”What’s he playing at?” I have to say, though it goes against what I’ve been preaching, his wife IS BETTER SUITED to him than his previous girlfriends and I can see why he chose to commit to her and not the others. Yes, it does happen and we have to get over it!
It’s seeing these relationships GROW over the years that has made me realise what the hallmark of a healthy relationship is. And it’s nothing to do with charm, promises, hot and cold, pursuit, games, dumping and getting back together, analysis, puting up with crap. It’s the progression. Whereas the scenarios I hear about here are a lot of running to stay still, or even to go backwards.
@Grace: I think this is just another reason for not trying to morph into another person just in order to be “better suited” for someone else. Not only it won’t work, but we would also miss the chance of meeting a good match for the real us!
Even if that means not marrying Chamberlain but “the brainy son of a London hairdresser”, who btw became a Baron later on (referring to my link about Beatrice Webb from above)!
Wow, I needed to read that. I dated a Mr. EU and couldn’t understand why he disappeared after 2 dates only to show up again with some lame excuse that he didn’t think I was interested. We went on 1 more date and I sat and listened to him wine and belly ache about his life, his dashed dreams and the toubles he was having trying to offload his leased porsche. I sat and thought to myself how he had helped me dodge a major bullet the first two dates and I wished I knew he was a Mr. EU so I wouldn’t have wasted time blaming myself as if I did something wrong. That was when I was in my blaming phase. As he plattered on I realized, this entire time it was all his issues not mine. I never contacted him again and avoided him whenever our paths crossed. I think he is a sad individual. He did me a favor.
I now realize I am ripe for the Chaser by my expectations. I have been wondering this phenomenon lately why some seem to disappear and this post puts it into perspective. How does one stop expecting to be chased? I was raised that this was wooing, that when a man liked you he pursued you and anything else ends up in heartache because he didn’t choose you first. I know this thinking is flawed, how do I go about changing it? What should I do?
bronze
Chasingdoesn’t necessarily = I’m interested in a longterm relationship. It could also = I want to have sex/ I’m overwhelmed by hormones and need to do something about it/ You remind me of my ex/ I love the feeling of impressing a new person with my song-and-dance routine/ I fall in love really easily and out of it just as quickly/ I’ve learned all these dating techniques and want to try them out/ I’m very excited/ I’m a showoff. None of this is necessarily a forerunner to love and marriage, and much of it is the opposite.
When I look back, I did have a few relationships which were better than my later EU/AC disasters. I don’t recall any chasing. I remember attraction but not being completely swept off my feet. I don’t remember waiting for phone calls or wondering who should call who. I just knew they were interested. And if I wanted to call them or speak to them it was no big deal, I just would. The relationships progressed naturally. Though we broke up there was no back and forth nonsense. (That’s simplified, I did screw them up because I was commitment phobic but it’s the closest I got to a proper relationship).
It was only later, when the EU habit became entrenched that I found myself wondering “when should I call, how long should I wait, why isn’t he calling, what did he mean by x,y,z, why was he so interested and now he’s not? why doesn’t he break up with me – is eh still interested? is he going to do what he said he would?will I see him again? what can i do?” and so on.
The man who chased me the very very most, broke my heart to the utmost. And, in the end, turned out to be one who was the least interested in me. He treated me like an unpaid prostitute. No man had ever done that to me before.
The funny thing is all his friends and colleagues thought he really cared about me but, even in the beginning, a part of me knew he didn’t, that he was just chasing. It can all look wonderful to the outside world and even to the man himself, but I think we know when it’s not right.
Your so right. Honestlym till I read this article it never hit me. I kept wondering why this was happening. So now I have to change my thinking and realize that I am getting what I am putting out. The ex, bent over and contorted himself into hoops to prove he was worthy of me. He succeeded and we embarked on a 3 year relationship that ended in him cheating. Talk about a lesson yet I didn’t realize that I was repeating the same pattern which is what I don’t want. I don’t want to attract another assclown or EUM into my life.
Everyone thought the ex was wonderful too. Your right, we all know. How did you go about changing your mentality from chasing to just going with the flow?
I started reading BR in the hopes that THIS blog would explain what was wrong with THEM, HIM, ALL THE MEN I’ve ever dated. Validation much? What I’ve found though is a mirror – constantly, safely, lovingly nudging me away from THEM/HIM/ALL THE MEN I’ve ever dated and back to me. I’ve had to start to deal with my own self-esteem (you don’t know how hard it is for me – the successful, attractive, go-getter, determined…oh boy am I determined 😉 woman…to admit I have pretty low self-esteem) and my own commitment/ambivalence issues. And this one hit me pretty hard:
“Some people don’t do commitment, like actual commitment with actions but they keep on dating, fading out, dating, fading out, and lather rinse repeat.”
While this is my ex, to a tee, guess who else I saw in this statement? Me. I’ve just justified the way I date because I date guys who have bigger emotional problems, and larger, more glaring commitment issues. I literally go for the guy that’s hanging on for dear life so that it looks, mostly to me I’ll bet, that I’m totally committed. But commitment is relative I’ve started to see. The difference this time around is that I’m not getting mad at myself, or blaming myself as much as I used to. I think it’s because I’m more interested in dealing with it and moving on – than wallowing in my own criticisms of myself and being stuck. You know how they say you have to reach rock bottom before there’s a real, authentic compulsion to change? Well, this last relationship was my bottom. And there’s no one left but me. 🙂
The commitment issues I face extend beyond my intimate relationships to career, money, family and of course, me. I have to say the saving grace has been NC. I’m almost a month of NC and the longer I go, the more sure I am of me, and the path I’m going in. All that “determination” and fighting to make myself, and others, work has been exhausted out of me. I’m starting to see that my overall exhaustion is a blessing. It’s keeping me out of trouble. Hitting personal rock bottom is actually not so scary now that I’m here- there’s no place to go but up. 🙂 It’s also a pretty good place for the commitment-phobia in me – I can’t really be ambivalent about myself when I’m squared off with myself. I mean I either deal with this stuff, or I don’t. But the alternative just isn’t appealing in any way.
I can relate to this and many of your posts too. My ex broke up with me (on my birthday) because apparently neither of us had been happy for a while – mainly because of his drinking and shouting but that’s beside the point of course.
So we break up…the texts and emails started a week later but I stayed NC for 6 weeks, then he turns up at my house with a handwritten love letter, which I ignored, but eventually he wore me down and i spoke to him. His take on the whole thing at this stage was that I was the love of his life and I walked out on him.
If I hadn’t read the book ‘Facing Love Addiction’ by Pia Mellody I would’ve thought I was going mad. Basically he can’t deal with me getting too close because I might not only see the truth about him but it might force HIM to see the truth as well, so the answer is to push me away and make it my fault so he can stay in denial. Then when I’m gone he feels safe enough to love me again. It’s cowardly and cruel and I’m GONE FOR GOOD.
snh
So true. Yes there are commitmentphobes and worse out there but the only person who can turn our lives around is us. We have to understanding that what other people do is their choice. And what we do is ours. We aren’t as helpless as we think.
When the time bomb goes off what you’re left with is … debris. You could try putting it all back together but it would be quicker and less frustrating to build a new house. Not keep picking through the debris and wondering What did I do wrong? Why is he like that? When is he going to change? What is he doing now? Is the world/men/society/ evolutionary biology/ feminism/ sexism against me?
What I have learned (finally) is that a mutually committed relationship is natural, organic, wholesome and even … easy. I don’t think anyone can say that about our EU situations, least of all us.
“What I have learned (finally) is that a mutually committed relationship is natural, organic, wholesome and even … easy. I don’t think anyone can say that about our EU situations, least of all us.”
This really is true, trust me. I was so surprised at how easy it was to come together with my mate. He was ready and so was I. By ready I mean, ready to stop the bullshit. We decided, before we met, that we were done. DONE.
BUT…we still have challenges that are very hard and lessons to learn. That’s just being human.
And sometimes he drives me crazy. Don’t tell him I said that. *grin*
“I’ve just justified the way I date because I date guys who have bigger emotional problems, and larger, more glaring commitment issues. I literally go for the guy that’s hanging on for dear life so that it looks, mostly to me I’ll bet, that I’m totally committed. But commitment is relative I’ve started to see.”
I learned that very lesson. I always thought that I was doing SO much for my relationship, feeling like he was doing nothing. It used to amaze me when he would spout off about what he did for the relationship, because it amounted to nothing to me. But what I learned is that it only felt like I was doing a lot because he was doing nothing, or what I thought was nothing. Even more was that I actually think that he believed that he was doing a lot for the relationship, he was just contributing what he thought was valuable all the while I didn’t value much of it. So it was just as likely that he didn’t value my contributions either. In the grand scheme of things I really wasn’t doing a whole lot. In comparison with some of the healthier relationships I had, I can look back and honestly say that I was in a lazy relationship, and what I had contributed in that relationship was more than him by default, but minimal at best. It is all relative, relative to what you want and value as important contributions to a relationship vs what he wants and values in a relationship. I think that’s the danger in going after people who are not truly looking for healthy commitment, in the end we find that our values are not the same and we’ll never be able to be satisfied or satisfy the other’s needs. A hard lesson to learn, but a necessary one for some of us…
Oh I’ve been caught out by this and it really is one of the most excruciatingly painful things you can go through in the dating world.
A few months ago I was involved with a dude who pursued me to the ends of the earth when I wasn’t interested in him … he was’t my type. But eventually I warmed to is advances because I was insecure and what he was doing made me feel good about myself and I admired his level of dedication towards me, he was also attractive and seemed kind. However I expressed concerns on numerous occasions: ‘this relationship is going too fast’, ‘I’m not sure meeting your parents so soon is a good idea’, ‘moving in together is a huge step are you sure?’ … I put my concerns on the back burner because he seemed so adamant. So I put my faith in him. However as soon as he became aware of my requirements as a partner and quite frankly as a human being he backed off. He realized that he just couldn’t stay out all night at random without having to consider someone else’s feelings, he couldn’t have his bed to himself, he couldn’t go to a brothel to hang out with the guys (yes, really) … suddenly I was ‘needy’ and asking too much of HIM. Outrageous. We ended up breaking up, he was acting like such a jackass I didn’t have a choice but to put a stop to the relationship even though I still cared, he didn’t even fight for me when I ended it. It was one of the most hurtful things that has ever happened to me, his interest and ‘love’ for me diminished into nothing within the space of about a fortnight.
It makes you question yourself and it makes you question your future, ‘how will I ever trust someone again?’ …
However I realize now that I don’t want a dude who is doesn’t have the intelligence to take things slow and savor the dating discovery phase that passes by all too quickly. I’ve developed this knowledge now but it came at a cost. I view him now as pathetic.
And quite frankly I don’t want a dude that’s as flimsy as a cheap, scratchy lace thong from a 99cent store bargain bucket.
Hindsight, my ex AC went to a brothel “just to check it out” Yeah right. He lied about it, so he knew it was wrong. He never really fessed up found a mysterious what went on….but come on….you don’t go to a brothel to window shop. You go to a strip club for that (still gross to me). I found out about it when his buddy’s 8 month pregnant wife called me when she found a mysterious two in the morning $300 withdrawal from their ATM account in Nevada town.) If a man steps into a brothel, he isn’t looking for a commitment with you. He’s looking to have his cake and eat it too. Not only did it hurt, it made me feel ugly and humiliated. This guy turned out to be a liar about many things and abusive too. Funny thing, he just texted me a few weeks ago out of the blue to tell me he loves me still and that I was the best thing that ever happened to him ( was he thinking how great I was when he was screwing a hooker? ) . I ignored it. Yuck. The nerve of these guys.
Indeed. It’s funny because we had an an argument once because his friend wanted to go to a place like this (he’d just split up from his gf) and asked me could he take him. I said ‘no’ because he had gone before (“for a quick drink with his friend”, I believed him and forgave him.) and lied to me about it initially. He got angry with me for not letting him go as if I was being unreasonable. These types of men are just abnormally immature and unable to see anything from anyone’s perspective but their own. They don’t actually realise what impacts their actions have on others and if they do they certainly don’t care.
jennynic I’m so sorry that that happened to you, I completely resonate. What a vile way to treat someone that cares about you. They must think we’re stupid. Go you for ignoring the text 🙂 … cheek of him.
Hindsight,
What you wrote here really resonated with me a lot:
“It was one of the most hurtful things that has ever happened to me, his interest and ‘love’ for me diminished into nothing within the space of about a fortnight”…
Yes, this is exactly how I felt (and still, to some degree, feel even now and my own break up happened at the end of June). And also what you wrote about how this man pursued you so intensely and how you had concerns, yes, me too, with my own situation.
I remember just how completely shocking it was to me, how he could be “so in love” to being just unbelievably unemotionally cold towards me; it reminded me of that scene in “Dangerous Liasons” where the John Malkovich character keeps saying over and over to the woman who is sobbing at his feet, “Its beyond my control”…
I wasn’t that bad about it, but I was (and still am) very very hurt and very very confused. What upsets me most of all is that: some days I feel good, and confident, and almost maybe even happy and then other days, such as today, I am feeling so sad and distraught.
I struggle to remind myself that it will be like this during recovery. Some days will be better than others. I am sorry this happened to you and I am sending you my very best thoughts.
Thank you. It’s reassuring but more so extremely horrifying to know that there are other people in the same boat as me.
It’s the most disturbing ever to have someone persuade you into something you are scared of: you put faith in them, they run away when the full realization of what they have offered becomes apparent to them.
I too have my off days. It’s hard to have the carpet pulled up from under you and for someone you once perhaps regarded as overly keen to turn around and call YOU needy for wanting to be treated as a priority to them … akin to what they promised.
My heart goes out to anyone who’s been future faked. It’s a tough cookie to deal with and it affects you long after the dust cloud they have left behind has dispersed.
Also since June is still a relatively short space of time. Its totally OK to still feel this it’s been less than three months.
I wish you all the best and you will get past this. It takes time but you will.
Lessie & Hindsight,
So many of us have had such similar experiences with the almost overwhelming hard pursuit, our early disinterest in them, our deep-down unease and the rapid evaporation of their interest once they realised that they had “caught” us. Yes, Hindsight, it really does make you question yourself, your own judgement and whether you will ever be able to trust anyone ever again. Lessie, you’re a few months behind me in your experiences, as my breakup in effect happened at the end of January – though we didn’t “officially” split until the end of Feb (when he texted asking me to phone so he could break up with me!). He spent February behaving like a childish jerk (aged 53!!) doing the avoidance thing, hoping that I would do the dumping I suppose, and I never actually saw him in person again after we landed at Heathrow airport on 30th Jan and he ran off. I spent February in complete denial of what I knew in my heart was happening. I even sent him a birthday present on the 14th (what an appropriate day he was born on!) and for a few weeks accepted his pathetic “friends” offer until the scales started falling from my eyes. Then I got fed up with the crumb-like texts and FB comments he threw me every now and then when he needed an ego-boost/shoulder to cry on, and I started No Contact. Please rest assured, Lessie, that your swings from feeling strong and almost happy to being deeply upset and sad are all a normal part of the recovery from such a disturbing and surreal experience with a commitment-phobe when the Time Bomb of Commitment has exploded and flattened the landscape of your life. I asked my therapist this week if it was too far-fetched to say that I had been traumatised and she said that is in effect what had happened to me, because the rug had been pulled sharply from under my feet when I discovered he was in no way, shape or form the person I believed him to be. I have been going through the same range of feelings as you, and even this week have been feeling a little sad from time to time. But it’s so much better compared to the barely-functioning wreck I’d become by the end of Feb. Stick with NC, read BR for support, spend time with people who love and care about you, and take gentle and patient care of *yourself* and you will make progress. It’s baby steps, sometimes 2 forward and 1 back, but keep the focus on *you* and I promise things get calmer and the feelings get less extreme. (((Hugs)))
Radio Girl,
This is so beautiful, what you have written to me here and I wanted to say “thank you” for taking the time to do so. I am reaching out to you through these words as well and sharing.
When I read your words about how he texted you and asked you to phone him (so he could then break up with you)…I am so sorry that happened. What a jerk. My EU separated MM asked me to please bring the sunscreen when I met him later that morning and THEN proceeded to break up with me and I still think even now, “Wow, that is just…so cold, very cold”…
When you used the word “surreal” I had to smile because in my previous post, I said that when this occurred, I felt myself to be in a Dali painting where time itself felt distorted. And it has not returned to normal for me, even now, 3 months on. Sigh.
The thing is: I know in my head, logically and rationally, that he is NOT worth this and I am more deserving, BUT, in my heart, in my core, it HURTS. It hurts tremendously and I sometimes feel as if I forget to even breathe and then I do, and am reminded I am, in fact, still alive, because just to breathe sometimes feels like knives plunging into me.
I feel as if I am still having the various stages of grief and often the emotions (anger, acceptance) overlap and I can’t seem to focus myself on any one feeling, except that of terrible confusion, hurt, and immense frustration at the “not knowing”.
And by that, I just mean, “not knowing” if he ever really truly cared and again, being upset with myself for even wanting to know in the first place. But I DO want to know and yet I also realize that now, because of what has happened, I could never believe anything he would say to me, how could I?
Like so many have said, I wanted the illusion to be real. I wanted to believe that he really WAS all that he made himself out to be. I remember he once read me a bedtime story that he had often read to his little girl (it was her favorite story) about a glass heart and he said to me, at the time, “I will always take care of and guard both of our glass hearts, my darling”…
Thank you so very much for your kind and gracious words to me. You take good care of *you* too and know that you are not alone and with BR to help us, we will be okay.
“And quite frankly I don’t want a dude that’s as flimsy as a cheap, scratchy lace thong from a 99cent store bargain bucket.”
Classic!!
Well…. after the narcissist, followed by the ass-clown, followed by the then seemingly normal (awesome) guy I’ve known for 30 years, I’ve decided that they all subscribe to the same relationship play book – and are, thusly, en mass ticking time bombs.
It begs the question, “Where are all the grown-ups?”
Haha had enough
the grown ups are all….here!!
Wonder if Nat could do some match making with the few dudes that comment on here from time to time (kidding Nat honest)
🙂
Thanks Natalie and everyone for sharing. Now I don’t feel quite so foolish as I see how easy it is for so many of us to fall for the behaviour of such people. Will try to be wiser in the future with relationships! Knowing what to watch out for is very helpful and also knowing to learn to trust our own instincts at every stage. As Natalie recommends in her book, in the future I’ll try to keep a journal of how I’m feeling to reflect on and let it go if it doesn’t feel right , rather than live in a future world of imagination and expending energy thinking about how to act to keep a person around, who really doesn’t deserve it.
Natalie ,
Thank you for this excellent advice. I met a man who seemed to be a very good choice, intelligent, good looking , enjoyed similar sporting activities. He had ended a 4 yr relationship a year ago. Thought this might have been enough time to heal. After a few dates it was obvious he was still not over it. We had both discussed our previous relationship in the casual overview way. But he became very angry when talking about why his failed. And although there had been some earlier passionate kissing that I must say I enjoyed. I was rebuffed for it ,when I initiated it on a subsequent date. Stiff lips are hard to misinterpret. He was probably not thinking of me during those earlier kisses, but of her. You are giving me the resolve to maintain No Contact. It would be a waste to invest my time in a man who is still not over his previous relationship. Your advice is so straight forward & so true.
Willow,
“Stiff lips are hard to misinterpret. He was probably not thinking of me during those earlier kisses, but of her”. That’s so heartbreaking and I’m so sorry you had to experience such horrible, cruel behaviour. If you ever waver with NC, you must think back to how that made you feel and carry on with your resolve to keep away from him.
Rawan, Off Track, Fearless, Hindsight, etc…
How very thankful I am to each of you for your sharing and insights. As always, thank you!
Rawan: Yes, the fast forwarding I can very much relate to as I was asked (during our time together) if I would accompany him on a business trip to China in October. I feel myself to be in an emotional shell shock from this. I am so sorry this happened to you as well. My best thoughts to you.
Off Track: what you said about “Mourning a relationship that never existed” very much resonated with me as well as I am now wondering how much was “real” and how much was never real at all but just “future faking”…how to discern the difference is SO difficult! You are not alone.
Fearless: yes, what you wrote about the emotional coldness; this was exactly how I felt when he went from “wooing” me to being very emotionally detached from me and then breaking down sobbing with me. I began to feel as if I were in a Dali painting and time itself were distorted. It is incredibly painful and hurtful when this occurs because you don’t know “why” or “how” or “what just happened”…all these questions.
Hindsight: yes, it’s just been three months and the thing is, I don’t even feel as if I’ve had a summer myself, because of this feeling of being completely unable to un-lodge my heart from my throat; meanwhile, he is back in Bermuda, no doubt with his barbecues and boats. Yuck. I often feel as if I am somehow able to look “together” on the outside but on the inside…I am slowly crumbling and I hate so much that I feel that way, I really do.
My heart goes out to you, and to all the wonderful ladies here.
I have to say, I HATE being “pursued” by someone who thinks he’ll “wear me down.” By his actions the guy is saying “This is all about me and what I want, it doesn’t matter what you want.” Double if you make it clear you’re not interested.
Then again, another form of unavailability I have encountered is one in which he may initially flirt with you, get in your face to get your attention, but then he expects you to initiate all the contact and do all the “work” — I have a policy of not getting mixed up in non-reciprocal, one-sided situations, so that’s non-starter No. 2 in my book.
Yet if you’re “wary” you’re setting yourself up to be more attractive to this type of AC? At least then you’re better prepared to walk when he starts playing his games.
I’ve just finished a book published in the early part of the 20th century. I thought it would be a nice romance. It certainly read that way until – after the friendship, the pursuit, the trips, the jewelry, the sex, the talk of marriage – our “hero” disappears and we find out he’s engaged to someone else! I was tricked!
I felt so hurt and it was only a novel. My heart goes out to you all going through this. It’s been going on for a long time, it’s not just a modern thing at all. It’s really not about you. But it is up to you to save yourself. Bon courage!
I so wish i had found BR a few weeks back! But, its never too late i guess and its really helping me through the pain i’m feeling right now. But this part of me still wants to believe that he did actually want me.
I’m currently on day 9 of no contact, but still feel in my heart i will try one more time to reach out to him.
I met him online, in March. Messaging was pretty random until May, when it became a daily occurance. I told him i was not looking for a full on relationship. But i did want one man to see fairly regularly, when i didnt have my kids. He lives away from me, but we eventually met up in June. There was an instant attraction on both parts. We were so excited to meet again 3 weeks later, when i travelled to his town and we spent a wonderful night and day together. He told me he was looking for a relationship.
Over the next 8 weeks our texting got so intense we were sending 2000 texts a month between us! Along side that we were skyping upto 2 – 5 hrs a day. He told me he had never felt like this before about anyone, that he felt we were a couple now (and asked if that worried me), that he had no intention of running from this. He talked in the long term, about taking me to meet his mum, xmas, holidays etc, and if i responded by saying something like ‘well, if we’re still together and all is going ok’ he would refer to me as a doubting Thomas and that i need to believe in him.
After a few more weekends together he just stopped contact. Said he had issues at home to deal with ( ex and step child) and needed time to sort his head. I became ill during this time, which in turn made me very negative, and i contacted him after only 4 days of silence appearing needy saying stuff like ‘i take it we’re over’ and like an idiot i told him i was falling in love with him.
Aside from that needy blip i have remained fairly cool with him, and told him i expect nothing from him that he isnt willing to give, but i would like to stay in touch and see him now and again. We’ve seen each other since and he has admitted he does like me, wants to stay in touch, doesn’t want commitment but does want to see me.
Confused or what! I’m beginning to see he may be an EUM, but I don’t want to believe he didn’t care at all!
wurzel
Yes he’s EU (the key is in the flip-flapping). It’s not about him “not caring at all”. That’s the whole point. He cares for you in a limited way. He will care for you one day but not the next. It’s inconsistent. And he also “cares” for his ex. He’s told you he doesn’t want commitment. Believe him. It would be better if he didn’t care for you at all and just left you alone. He’s jerking you around.
And “I take it we’re over” is not needy. Are you going to spend the rest of your life accepting crumbs?
He’s never shown he cares for his ex. He’s never had a good word to say about her while ive known him. He cares deeply for his step child, and the child does for him. He’s mad about this child. Even after 2 yrs of being separated from the mum he is as devoted as ever to his step child. The mum stopped him seeing the child, but the child continues to call and text him daily begging to see him. I think the mother game plays him, because if she really didnt want her child talking to him she would remove all access to contact. The child is under 10 yrs old!
He gets depressed when his contact with her is removed. As he dealt with this and came to terms with it, thats when we grew close. Then he was told he could see child again. He was so happy. But before he saw child, mum stopped it again. Thats when he asked for space to deal with this issue at home. Now he is seeing child every weekend, and i know this makes him happy. but its made him more unavailable than ever.
I still cant see him as a totally bad man. I’m getting stronger each day with accepting ‘we’ are not together. We are now nothing! But i’ve always seen his dedication to this child that is not biologically his as his most admirable attribute.
Wurzel,
“I so wish I had found BR a few weeks back”. I wish I’d found it 25years ago! Lol.
Sounds like your thing with this guy is riddled with problems from both sides: he “wants” a relationship but you don’t, then you do want one but he doesn’t, then you want whatever he’s offering then he’s offering FWB to frequent your all-you-can-eat for free buffet. What a fankle. This whole scenario is exactly what Nat’s post is a warning about.
It’s not been a long time – you can cut out now before it hurts even more.
“I’m beginning to see he may be an EUM, but I don’t want to believe he didn’t care at all!”
He is. So are you. Maybe from now on you should decide whether you actually want a relationship or not instead of toying with the idea, which is what a lot of these folk re Nat’s post do – they toy with people in relationships because they don’t have a foggy clue what they actually want – they are riddled with ambivalence, so the buffet style meal is right up their street; they don’t have to commit to a single choice from a set menu – they can have a taste of everything. Which is fine when it’s food but not when it’s other people’s lives!
I will say that I have my best days when I don’t care about the ex EU and whether he cared or didn’t care about me or if he was really EU or just an evil bastard. My bigger concern is that I believe “I” didn’t care for me at all! And that was root of “my” problem. On my best days (and mostly now those are what I have) I know that whether he cared or didn’t care is neither here nor there, cos one way or another it’s over – Fearless’s buffet business has gone bust and is bankrupt, so whether the customer cared about the buffet or not doesn’t matter! Although my buffet business going bust is still emotionally troublesome for me sometimes, I do know in all certaintly that it is best thing for me and for my future. And it’d the best thing for yours, you will come to know. Focus on you – you are in charge of what happens to you and how you feel, not him. And you need to get your own house sorted. Good luck.
Thank you for your words x
I’m only a year out of my marriage, and didnt think i wanted a relationship yet. With 4 children, and past step parenting issues with 2 of my kids, a full on heavy relationship, involving living with someone is out of the question for me right now.
That why a long distance (70 miles) appealed to me. I could see him when my kids were with their father, and enjoy some time out. I didnt want living together commitment, but i did want just one man to see regularly. I thought that was casual dating! I guess i was so wrong!
Still, on the positve side at least i’ve found this site now! At the grand old age of 39, i’ve only had 2 long term relationships, and 2 one night stands in between them. I’ve never had a short fling/relationship/ or even dating! Its all new and alien to me. Hopefully i’ll learn my lessons fast!
And because its all so new to me, i think thats why i’m struggling to come to terms with this. I just didnt realise people could treat others like this.
Wurzel,
They can and they do. My ex did the same thing.
You cannot have a casual relationship with this man. Remember how you felt after you had not heard from him? Plus, you’re in love with him. This man has clearly shown you it is not going beyond casual!
To continue with this man would be devaluing. Why not focus on yourself and the kids, in time find someone who will value and respect you.
There is something that maybe i’m not getting or dont 100% agree with. I just broke it off with someone about a week and a half ago that was EUM. He future faked, he told me he loved me, wanted a relationship, made it exclusive etc… all within 3 months and all of it was at *his* request. Was I wrong to think this *could possibly have been real? I entered into this relationship feeling really great about myself. So great, that in fact I wasn’t even sure i wanted anything to do with this person. But like everyone else: I started to slowly warm up to his advances and even said to myself: “you have to be open for love and be willing to trust if you want love to enter your life”. So bam, I opened the door only to be met with so much inconsistency, lies, not returning calls, weird excuses, relying mainly on texts, not feeling I was important (it was all him,him him) he controlled mainly when we saw eachother (hey, ill be at the park with my son, want to join us? I’m gonna be available for lunch this afternoon, want to join me…? If you still want to talk, call me.) stuff like that. Because the relationship was fairly “new” and it takes time to get to know someone, I sort of just went with it. Yes at times I thought hmmm, something doesn’t seem right and when I finally put it to the test, I got my confirmation that indeed not all was right and that my gut feeling was correct. I ended it (good for me and I know it was the right thing to do) but that doesn’t minimize how painful it is to come to terms with knowing that someone was just “using” you and lieing to you the whole time!. And how is this not loving myself? I loved myself enough to venture out there again to date and find someone. I loved myself enough to not build huge walls and gave someone a chance, opened my heart and TRUSTED someone. Thank god it was only 3 months before I saw who he really was but then I loved myself enough to see the reality of what was going on and inspite of how hard it was to end something because “I HAD TO” not because I wanted to (I wanted very much to believe this person was real) I did end it. And now im stuck with all these questions, it has made a mess of my self esteem, im afraid to trust and there are even times when I still want to contact him because it hurts so bad and its so bizarre and confusing to be with men like this.
but basically just want to know what exactly am i supposed to be changing about myself? Why do i now need to contemplate the possibility that I may be EU as well? I feel like i went out there like any normal person, met someone, gave it a chance, saw what was happening and chose to end it. I got a “bad apple” but how else are you supposed to find out who someone “really” is? There is no telepathic way to know how things will turn out. You have to take a “risk” and see what happens no?
If someone could please help me to understand. And also help me to understand what im supposed to be “working” on and how i get over this feeling. 🙁
Thank you
xoxoxo
Offtrack:
I don’t think you need to assume there’s a whole lot “wrong” with you if you were able to take a risk, do some exploring, and get out when you realized the situation wasn’t what works for you.
Natalie addresses this topic here:
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/why-dating-is-a-discovery-phase-to-work-out-if-you-want-a-relationship/
It sounds like you surprised yourself with the amount of emotional investment you have for him after only three months, if you feel a mess has been made of your self esteem. Otherwise, breakups hurt. They just do. It’s only been a week and a half – go easy on yourself.
Only you can say if you overinvested and ought to have gotten out sooner. But we all make mistakes, and even then, three months isn’t that long. Maybe it took that long to get a grip on this person’s character. Focus on rebuilding your self esteem and consider yourself wiser about certain types of people!!
OffTrack
You did the right thing. The only thing you MAY have done better is bail earlier. I think “I love you” in three months is too soon, but that may just be me.
One thing I will stick my neck out and say – it does no harm to wait before sex.
@ Fearless…I love it…”although my buffet business going bust is still emotionally troublesome for me sometimes, I do know in all certainty that it is best thing for me and for my future.”
It helps so much to be reminded that we are in control, we do have the power, we can shut down the buffet…and that it can always be re-opened for the right customer. This pearl of Nat’s wisdom has become my mantra: “He is not that special and I am not that desperate.” Raise your glass…
offtrack
That could have been me writing your post! The only difference is i havent actually ended it, so to speak. I’m on day 12 of NC now though.
Did we date the same man, by any chance?? your story is so similar. He said it all, i was wary, but thought i had to take the risk, as i couldnt walk away because i liked him, even though i wasnt quite ready for a full on relationship. But his words, and actions at the time made me start falling for him. It was just all so lovely, and so was he.
Then 3 months in, and silence! for a bit, and random contact since. He hasnt tried to contact me in my 12 days of NC, but i have to say i am finding it incredibly hard to not text him. He was online last night, as he’s still on my facebook, and for the first time i resisted opening up the chat window. But i’m not yet ready to remove him from my friends list.
The last time we were in contact it was left that we wanted to remain in touch, but as neither were ready for anything more (although i realised from my feelings i would be if it was on offer) that we would get together now and again. He said he didnt see me as a fuck buddy as i’m worth more than that. (so what am i then????) I just cant get him out of my head, or my life. Still not sure i want to. I wish i could do the casual thing easily. At the end of the day we are 2 single consenting adults, but me developing feelings have made it so hard. Trouble is i cant blame him, because i have told him i’m happy with it being this way. And as men see it all in black and white i guess he thinks that i am!
Wish i could switch off!!
Was just listening to an album and this so is so fitting to our situations
Fall for Anything – The Script
Girl they bring you down, down, down
Don’t give yourself away
Don’t live your life that way
Of course he’s gonna say, anything you want
Then leave quicker than he came
Now you’ve got yourself to blame
Don’t put yourself back in the fire again
It’s the same damn things you’re so quick to believe
You do it over and over again
And it’s the same mistakes that I’m watching you make
You do it over and over again
So before they bring you down
You gotta stand for something or you’ll fall for anything
Girl they bring you down, down, down
Please don’t be so naïve, don’t wait till your heart bleeds
Love wasn’t built for speed, listen to me girl
He keeps fukin with your head, try’na get you into bed
And in the morning you’ll just hate yourself
It’s the same damn things you’re so quick to believe
You do it over and over again
And it’s the same mistakes that I’m watching you make
You do it over and over and over again
So before they bring you down
And you give until there’s nothing left to give
Until there’s nothing left to give until there’s nothing left to give
Before they break you down…
Wurzel: I’m so glad im not alone. And when i think about all of this, you know what’s really really bothering me? It may sound sick but yes “I” broke it off, because i was just not happy and everything had to be on his terms. He never said I dont want you. In fact, he kept telling me how much he loved me and missed me while me catching him still logging into the very site where I had met him (this is after him telling me that “HE” wanted to be exclusive). Mixed signals? I still can’t wrap my head around this. So while I read that so many EUM/Assclowns are relentless and trying to get back in touch, through the door etc…etc… does this mean that this guy i was with isn’t EUM or an ASsclown? I broke it off and yes he was like: If that’s what you wish, I will leave you alone. And that sounds like to me: Well, since you said it ok ill just go with it. So if i say: Hey I love you too and want to stay thats ok too??? I dont understand and its making me crazy.
Ok so yesterday i fell “off track” a little. We texted. Ok, ok, I called and he didnt pick up. So he sends me a text saying: I saw that you called but didnt call back because im sure it was a mistake. So I responded: Yes im sorry, meant to call my son (his name and my son’s name are the same). And i proceeded to say: No pun intended and i dont harbor any bad feelings towards you. Hope you are well and maybe 1 day we can even be friends”.
(Yes yes, i wanted to “leave a door open”.)
To which he responded: “OK”. and i said: “Cool, i do miss talking to you, so keep in touch”.
He responded: “I know it will take time but if you ever want to talk or need a friend, you know my number and my door is always open to you. I miss talking and laughing with you.
My response: “yeah to be honest, this hasnt been easy but things happen. It would be nice to keep in touch so thanks for the open door. Likewise on my side. Miss laughing with you too.
His reponse: I can relate on the not being easy part.
So i sent him a picture of this thing that said *HUG* and said, looks like we both need one. And he said: A real one would feel better!
and I said: “yes I agree”. And that was it
(sorry for the he said/she said, I feel like im in High school) But i want someone’s opinion on him. His he being respectful and leaving me alone or is he being “lazy” again and…
OffT
When there is this much drama/stress/worry I think it’s a warning sign. It really should not be this difficult. When two people love each other they don’t hesitate to call, to initiate contact, to meet up, and eventually to get married. I see it all around me.
It’s only in the ambiguous situations that we get “He said this, he did that, what does she mean, what’s this text about, why has she emailed me?” etc etc etc. My rule of thumb is – the more you have to think about it, the less worthwhile it is.
Another warning sign is when you start making excuses for them – she’s complicated, he’s got problems, she’s busy, the ex, the kids, the mortgage, the pets, the job, etc etc etc. The children one really puts my back up, by all means put your kids first, but don’t wheel them out as an excuse for crap behaviour. And, I get it, maybe you genuinely don’t have the energy for children and a relationship, in which case – pick the children and commit to that. Not find someone to make life a bit more fun on your own terms.
I don’t think this man is an AC, he’s definitely EU. But there’s no need to get hung up on categorising him. He simply can’t give you what you want. Many women here have been told far far more amazing things than he told you, including me, and still didn’t get the love that we thought was being promised. All you’ve got is some stuff he said to you. If you were in a relationship, you would be with him. Maybe going to the aquarium with his stepdaughter, going for dinner, watching TV, planning a holiday. Not telling us what he told you and trying to make it into something significant. It’s just crumbs.
For the longest time I stored in my heart the things my ex said to me but, in the end, it was dust (and I’m not talking stardust).
Anyone can say they love you. Do you feel loved?
Offtrack,
All that stuff he said is really easy to say. And you’re the one saying “i miss talking to you” and “it hasn’t been easy” and he’s all about just being vague and giving signals that friends is a someday thing. So easy to say you miss laughing with someone. Not the same as saying you miss someone. Heck, I miss laughing with anyone – I like laughing. Missing laughing isn’t the same as missing a person. He’s just trying to not be too mean to you now, and give you words, when his behaviour told you that he wasn’t in love. Sorry if this sounds harsh. You’ll do your dignity a service by not getting in touch.
Magnolia
Well spotted.
For people so careless with our feelings, they sure are careful with what they say.
Here’s another classic line:
“I want to be a part of your life”. Start waving the red flags.
To drag this back on topic – it’s the doublespeak they come out with when commitment is in the offing and they don’t have the guts or decency to say “Clearly you want more than I do. I’m sorry I led you on. We should go our separate ways”. No, chuck him/her a few crumbs and watch them make a loaf out of it.
Mag and Grace, when my ex made a comeback last year he busted out, among other gems, “I really miss talking to you” and “I want to be a part of your life and I want you to be a part of mine.” I thought those were sentiments meaning, “I want to come back because I’ve missed you and I want to be with you.” Errrrrrrrrr, not so much. I always say these dudes really missed out if they haven’t taken up a career in law 😉
Off Track
I fell of the wagon today too! 12 days in and i text. I knew i would when i woke up this morning. I went to see my friend to gain strength, read more on here, but by this afternoon, i just did it! I thought if i dont do it now, i’ll be thinking about it all night. So i did it. Any way, he responded straight way, i guess we sent about 6 texts each, he said he’d moved back to his home town (which now takes him further away 🙁 ), It was all friendly, i made no sexual innuendos or offers of invites to my ‘buffet’, just left it with a take care and catch up soon. He asked about my life, what i’d been doing, called me lovely and sent kisses.
Until reading some posts here tonight i hadnt really realised the difference between the EUM and the AC. I dont think he’s an AC. He’s never been abusive, or even nasty. Ignoring texts and the silent treatment is the worst its got. I cant even see him as a bad man. I’ve tried but i cant. Like your man too, he still lingers on the site we met on. But then so do i. Checking him out, and getting my own ego stroke from other men. Reading on here is really making me see how EU i actually am.
Now he’s moved further away i guess i really do have to move on and get over this. But right now i want to be friends, or in contact at least, with him. As for seeing him, i’m not sure. I think that will be too much of a head f**k for me at the moment and i know i’d sleep with him, without a doubt. So the offer wasnt put out there, not via him or myself. I’m going to try hard to just see him as a friend. We have spent 6 months getting to know each other. We cant be together so why not get something out of it, or what was it all for.
I do intend to try and cry tonight. I always stop myself because i say he’s not worth my tears. But i think they need to flow in order to move on. Bottling it up will not help in the long run!
Wurzel,
Do friends treat one another this way? I don’t think so. I too, wanted to remain ‘friends’ with the ex after he had treated me disrespectfully; the result, a boatload of hurt and further depletion of self-esteem.
I have better friends now.
“We cant be together so why not get something out of it, or what was it all for.”
That sends shivers down my spine. I did ten years of Plan A: ‘I’ll get something out if it otherwise what was it all for’….
….okay, so plan A is actually very painful, so let’s try Plan B: we”ll just be friends then and not have any sex, just friends… Ooops, I slept with him again! Right, so Pan B didn’t work out. Oh well, neither plan A nor B seems possible so it’ll have to be Plan C: finish with him completely; No more contact at all…
…Ooops, I texted him and we seem to have gone back to Plan A by default.. Oh well, so much for Plan C – that was just impossible. I know – may as well try plan A again, at least I’ll get something out of it, otherwise what was all of this for?…Actually Plan A really is too painful, let me see if I can make Plan B work better this time, so, we’ll be just friends… Ooops…
I’ll tell you what it’s all for, Wurzel – more of the same, forever until you die, if that’s what you’re up for.
Wurzel, in case you need some additional info on identifying whether you’re leaving an EUM or an AC in the dust, this sums it up (plus the Assclown Watch picture made me giggle):
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/how-to-spot-an-assclown/
You are an incredibly intelligent lady with a ton of insight and I have no doubt you’ll leave him and this icky experience in the rearview. *Hugs*
sounds exactly like my EUM! And yes even said the same things. I´ts an emotional game they play. If you come back fine, if you dont they have others.
Maggie
They all say it. They may even believe it. But, who on this green earth is going to say, “I can see you for about an hour or two a week, for a cuddle/sex. Some weeks I may not fancy it at all. The rest of the time I’m too busy with cleaning/work/family/my wife/ husband/ the dog so I won’t call you or answer the phone. We can text though, cos that doesn’t take up much time and I can do it while I’m watching TV/tidying up/masturbating. We can’t make plans in advance because I’ve only got time for you when I’ve nothing else on. I don’t fancy the thought of you seeing other people, that dents my ego and you might choose them instead of me, which is inconvenient. But if I want to see someone else, or rather text someone else cos I’m so busy, that’s none of your business because I haven’t promised you anything. I enjoy talking to you because you give me a lot of attention for little in return. You laugh at all my jokes that everyone else is sick of and you make me feel good about myself”.
There you go – my free translation service.
Thanks for sending me to bed laughing my head off!
I’m headed for bed laughing too. Grace, may I please send any future texts and emails to you for translation? However, since I don’t do texts or emails anymore, you may not get a request for translation regularly.
I’m just howling and quite humilated that I thought his clever little texts and lengthy emails meant something. Loved the masturbating image while tidying up, taking care of the dogs, and texting. Apparently, the opposite sex is capable of multi tasking? When it suites them?
Grace – you are such good therapy! So true. So awful. But so true.
That was hysterical Grace! Loved it! So sad but true, the reality of it all.
Wurzul: I hope you didnt cry too much. Cry to get him out of your system for “you” but he honestly doesnt deserve your tears. I gathered strength from reading your story and what every one else has said on here. I’m glad that im not alone. I also see how some other’s EU experiences have been worst than mine and every time something resonates within me, it reminds me that I need to have the strength to remove the blinders, stop wanting to “believe” what i want to believe and instead, get in touch with the reality of it. I know its hard, its a process, it takes time. I’m not gonna sit here and kick myself for ‘falling off track” a little and you shouldn’t either. Its a very hard situation to get through and get over. Every day im seeing more and more who he is and ALLOWING myself to get angry. Perhaps that will help you see him in a different light. Grace asked me if i feel loved, i most certainly dont and i dont think you do either….it really is that simple. If they were making us feel happy, we wouldnt be on this site talking and analyzing about the relationship because we would be too busy having one.
Lots of hugs and strength for you…
Thanks everyone for your replies and advice! 🙂
Offtrack
Oh yes, i cried all right. And again last night, and today my eyes are filling with tears continuously, but they dont seem to fall. I guess i’m stopping them to have a brave face infront of the children. My closest 2 friends are the only two people who know everything but i dont think they know how much i’m really feeling.
I know what i had was very short term, in comparison to what others on here have gone through. So i feel pathetic for finding it all so hard. But i am. I fell in love with the guy. Or the guy he was at the beginnning anyway! There is no other way to see it in my eyes, or why would i find it so hard to let go. Now he has moved even further away, and i know i will never see him again as long as i live, and i cant bare that thought. I’m crying just writing this bit now, the tears have come in full flow.
I’m scared to even think about meeting anyone else in the future. It seems easy to say you need to keep 2 feet in reality, but how do you do that? Because in my experience my feelings just take over. My feet tried to stay in reality with him. I kept being real with him, but he asked me to believe in him, and slowly my barriers came down.
Its the not knowing why it all stopped so suddenly when it was all going so right. If i could get closure from him i would find it easier to accept i think. I seem unable to close it myself, when i dont know why he changed! My head is accepting it and starting to understand it, from the the insight on here, but my heart is taking longer to get the message.
Natalie,
You. Are. Amazing.
people who doggedly pursue, translate into pests… if they’re not taking no for an answer then they don’t care what you feel. … You make some great points Natalie.. Do find your overall tone a bit patronising though… we’re all equals here, and just stopped by to support your work… have a great day