When we’ve been involved with someone who was at best, narcissistically inclined and at worst, anarcissist or we’ve felt utterly flummoxed by the change we experienced with someone who appeared to have great potential, we might become very gun-shy about new relationships. We find it difficult to trust ourselves due to feeling we’ve been misled (or that we misled ourselves in the past). It’s why one of my most frequently asked questions is, ‘Natalie, how much does chemistry matter when you first meet someone?’
The first thing I want to know is whether they’ve experienced chemistry before. And, of course, the answer is yes.
I then want to know the following:
How much has chemistry played a part in your perception of someone?
Is chemistry a key driver for becoming involved?
Have your feelings and beliefs about chemistry caused you to stay in a relationship even though it wasn’t working?
Invariably, chemistry has played a significant role. With the benefit of hindsight, some realise that it accounted for over 90% of their involvement (and their problems).
And every single time, the answer is yes to the emotional unavailability and no to the relationship being mutually fulfilling.
We don’t have doubts about chemistry or get misled by it if the net result is a loving relationship.
I then want to know: Where are these partners now?
It’s all very well having what you might regard as ‘off-the-charts chemistry’. It’s zero use, though, if it renders your relationship unable to function.
Relying on chemistry is like constantly riding a roller coaster and wondering why it’s difficult to stand on solid ground. You wonder why your stomach’s lurching, and why it only feels ‘normal’ on the rollercoaster. You end up chasing a feeling that you haven’t been able to recapture at quite the same level as the first ‘high’.
If you have a type and are yet to have a successful, loving relationship with it, or you don’t think you do, but have relied on initial chemistry time and again and found yourself in problematic relationships or struggling to make it past the first few dates, weeks or months, chemistry is the pothole that you keep walking into instead of around it.
Chemistry is that hard-to-put-your-finger-on energy between two people.
It’s about how they each resonate and yes, it, of course, needs to be positive. The chemistry, however, is questionable if what results is something rather chaotic or even catastrophic.
It’s not that chemistry isn’t a factor in a relationship, but it’s too much to expect chemistry with a stranger. This is especially so when you might lack the self-awareness to understand why you’re attracted or to recognise that you’re repeating an unhealthy pattern.
It’s one thing to feel chemistry with a stranger or someone you’ve been on a few dates and also have your self-esteem in tow. This grounds you and lets them (and you) unfold to see how things stack up. It’s another thing altogether when you experience that same chemistry, assume it’s a positive attraction, and then proceed despite code amber and red alerts. Chemistry isn’t a viable reason for painting red flags green.
Any so-called ‘chemistry’ shouldn’t make you less of who you are, off-balance, or quite simply, unable to function.
No relationship with healthy chemistry should put you into a child role where they’re an authoritarian parental replacement. A relationship shouldn’t leave you (and them) emotionally unavailable, sampling the highs and ‘tasty bits’ but unwilling to put down roots and have stability.
Loving relationships or even just healthily engaging with a person full stop, have the all-important quality of balance.
In loving relationships, each partner regulates each other as opposed to being sent into turmoil.
Turmoil might be familiar, but when you choose loving relationships, you choose calm.
Chemistry, like secondary values (physical attributes, hobbies, interests and other taste-related things), only matters if the relationship is working. And you’ll know this because you’re happy together in a mutually fulfilling relationship that’s going somewhere.
Healthy, loving chemistry is a by-product of two people aligning in terms of values. Want to stop being tripped up by chemistry? Get clear on your own values and live by them. Become more conscious about the values that speak for your future partner and relationship.
Chemistry only really matters when you first meet somebody if you need instant gratification, you plan to have sex immediately, or you have no intention of doing due diligence.
You don’t know a person when you first meet them. People unfold. Chemistry is something to be mindful of when ascertaining whether you’re a ‘good fit’. It’s not, however, something to use as your sole or primary reason for proceeding. If you’re a good fit, there’s evidence beyond hard-to-put-your-finger on chemistry. And ultimately, getting to know someone takes time and experience.
If you don’t consciously choose the type of partners you want to be involved with, you will use chemistry in lieu of the vulnerability that comes with truly showing up and getting to know someone.
Make a note of these feelings so that the next time they show up, you use them as a cue to stop, look and listen. This practice allows you to discern where you might be repeating a pattern.
If paying attention to chemistry isn’t working for you, pay attention to whether you’re more of who you are or less of it. Note whether things feel and are different from previous unhealthy relationships (which might include it being calm). Make sure you’re going beyond superficial and sexual interactions so that you can ascertain deeper chemistry. And pay attention to whether the signs of a relationship that’s going somewhere good are unfolding.
You always know you’re on the right track in terms of moving towards the loving relationship you want when, even though they might not have worked out, the quality of partner and relationship improves and/or you are flushing out of inappropriate/unworkable involvements much quicker than you would have done before. It’s called growing in awareness but you’re also altering who you will experience chemistry with in the future.
Let us not forget that addiction is a chemical, psychological, mental, emotional, and behavioral process.
When I hear people say they want chemistry above all in relationships, I think to myself, “What! The roller coaster ride of being chemically controlled by an external source?”
We have to create our excitement via healthy sources, not ones that deplete us. If you want excitement, go on a hike, travel to a hot spring, embark on a healthy career change, join a community group, publish your writing, show your art, exhibit your photos. Challenge you in a healthy way.
Looking for a lover to spice things up in our lives or fill a void is simply distraction.
I had a magnetic attraction to an ex. Why? Because he was physically similar to a family member who incested me as a child, and I needed to work out all the deep, horrifying pains from the catastrophically predatory actions that took place in that home for years that I had been denying for ages.
Did I learn from that relationship and get out in time to heal? Barely.
I suggest not dating dubious people in order to work through childhood hurts (which is what most of us do). Perhaps this can be avoided, if we are diligent and honest with ourselves and our actions, and seek appropriate, and or professional help when it is merited.
If you’re looking for the chemistry connection fantasy where this magical magnetic person comes to sweep you and all your problems off your feet, you’re in for a bitter bitter surprise and an all too harsh reality when this not only does not happen but brings you face to face with what you’ve been avoiding (yourself) anyway.
Sugarhoneyicetea
on 20/01/2017 at 12:00 am
Thank you for putting that all into words so well. I am copying this and saving it to refrence when needed.
SilverCloud
on 20/01/2017 at 12:58 am
Sugarhoneyicetea,
Oh! Wow, I am flattered, but above all, grateful that it helped somebody out.
I love your name btw; all my favorite things!
fussy
on 22/01/2017 at 4:44 pm
SilverC,
“We have to create our excitement via healthy sources, not ones that deplete us. If you want excitement, go on a hike, travel to a hot spring, embark on a healthy career change, join a community group, publish your writing, show your art, exhibit your photos. Challenge you in a healthy way.”
This is the best advice. With encouragement from hearing your words in my head, I decided to do something this weekend that proved to be nothing short of healthy excitement, and I really needed a dose. Thanks!
I have this problem with bosses. Some how I keep saying yes to jobs that have the same narcissistic, mid 30-40s female at the helm. Each time gets more catastrophic in behaviour and in emotional damage. Great tips here–4th job is the charm they say, right?
Tatum Ranch
on 19/01/2017 at 12:08 am
Narcissist bosses are now the norm. Have a business on the side and don’t tell anyone at work.
The narcs need to be together in a leper colony.
Beks
on 20/01/2017 at 3:21 pm
Hi Leigh,
I’ve noticed this paradigm myself and started to assume the Universe wanted me to work out my issues with my narcissistic parent. There was always a woman in a position of authority who was so threatened by me that she would set out to chop me off at the knees for doing my job well and making her “look bad” by comparison – my mother to a tee!
Danielle
on 18/01/2017 at 11:59 pm
This article came at EXACTLY the perfect moment for me.
I’ve been dating a guy from school (I’m 22 and in college) for almost a month now. Initially, there was no “hit” of chemistry and I’ve found myself questioning myself and my choice in dating him because of this perceived “lack of chemistry.”
In the past, I’ve used chemistry to choose guys and, when I did, the guys were almost always emotionally unavailable in some way and only wanted “one thing.” With the guy that I’m dating now, I feel this odd sense of calm; I feel like I can be myself and, so far, he’s been incredibly accepting of me as well as encouraging and patient (even when I thought that I had “messed things up” with him).
It’s hard to train myself out of a “chemistry first” mindset (because it’s the thought process I’ve always defaulted to), but I love what wrote in the article were you say, “If paying attention to chemistry isn’t working for you, pay attention to whether you’re more of who you are, whether things feel and are different to how they have been (which might include it being calm), and paying attention to whether the signs of a relationship that’s going somewhere good are unfolding.” I’ll definitely be using this line of thinking from now on when I start to default into “chemistry first” because I know where that leads (Mr. Unavailable, anyone?)
SilverCloud
on 20/01/2017 at 1:07 am
Danielle,
I used to think I thrived in chaos. Probably not, but anyhow, my therapist and I have been working deeply on accepting that place of clam.
I’ve really grown to value calmness, kindness, and honesty over the past month. I can’t imagine myself choosing something so hectic as I used to.
My therapist explained that when you grow up in a less than stellar environment, you get hooked on the adrenaline that fuels chaos.
I grew up with constant drama and, unfortunately missed out on all the pretty sunsets, beaches, nature reserves, canyons, hikes, swim holes and hot sprigs to soothe a human being right down to their bones.
I feel a lot of rewiring goes on in the brain during healing.
Silvercloud
on 20/01/2017 at 2:22 am
*Hot Springs* I looked up the definition of sprig and can’t stop laughing; I don’t know why because it’s not that funny.
Silvercloud
on 20/01/2017 at 3:43 am
*Place of calm* Not clam. Oh, god, rereading the whole of that phrase is actually very funny but not intended.
Amazing the difference the order of two letters make.
Karen
on 19/01/2017 at 1:18 am
These days, when I feel that “instant chemistry”with someone, it’s a red flag that I am slipping back into accepting an emotionally unavailable person as “good enough.”
They’re not good enough. Not anymore.
Though I feel healed from the emotionally abusive narcissistic, married ratf**k from a few years ago, and life is great, I still haven’t figured out quite how to find an emotionally open, sincere person of good character. So, I am trying to be those good things and I hope like attracts like.
fussy
on 19/01/2017 at 3:45 am
How do you get over an ex who steals an idea that you spoon-fed them and when you point out they’re using your idea, they claim it was all their idea, and in fact, they had that idea before you ever shared it with them (complete lie). Thing is they are in the public eye. I can’t not see it and it’s never going to stop, ever and it feels like they’re rubbing my nose in it. By the way, I’ve been no contact for several years but do not know how to reconcile this. I just can’t get there.
therapy. How does one steal what has been spoon fed to one? You could question your desire to give ideas away, in fact to ‘spoon feed’ them – by this I assume, it wasn’t a throwaway comment, it was something you carefully and diligently informed your ex about. Why? Why not keep it to yourself? Did you think you could execute it? Did you want him to feel admiration or debt to you? I know this sounds like pinning the responsibility on you – I don’t think your ex is wrong to steal the idea unfortunately. It was there, he took it. You gave it to him. He’s churlish and immature and insecure to not attribute it at least the first few times he used it or give you some other type of credit. But he’s not wrong to take it. Thats his business. Also, eventually its not just your idea – he did execute it. Whatever it is, he put money and energy behind it, he saw it through to its end.
Is this an idea you could have used yourself? What really is driving your feelings of …? Whats the feeling being triggered here?
I sometimes think the giving away of ideas is also a form of control, a type of desire to be noticed, and a desire for gratitude. It means you’re surrounding yourself with less than bright people and trying to ‘help’ them. The cost to you is the resentment it causes. Ideas are like butterflies, they come and go. Give this one up. Reassure yourself that you have many more where that came from. Use them for yourself. The more you resent this, the less you are coming up with ideas for yourself, or ideas to feel better. There are infinite ideas.
Tundra Woman
on 19/01/2017 at 2:35 pm
^^^This. All day long.
Fussy
on 19/01/2017 at 5:44 pm
Suki,
Thank you. I do consider the points and questions you have brought up–all of them. One grand conclusion: I have good ideas
And I do accept responsibility for “spoon feeding” the idea. I’m really just mad at myself. I ask myself why did I do that with someone who I didn’t really trust anymore and why can’t I let it go?
The good news: I am now way more conscientious about myself and my own needs come first when relating to others (friends, family and no romantic relationships to speak of yet). I’ve been working pretty hard (still in progress) to identify my unhealthy behaviors, revise, adjust, and identify triggers. I’ve made real, tangible strides and significant changes that I’m proud of, and I don’t see a situation like this happening again in my future. I take a lot of pauses now…
And I agree–ideas are like butterflies, but this one got stuck in my craw because of seeing it come up since it involves other people that I’ve known for years. It triggers many things: how I felt used throughout this and other relationships ( while unhappily sticking with it), how I’ve felt like I haven’t gotten the credit that I deserve throughout my life, which is on me (making myself small, letting others shine=resentment, hurt feelings), and how it didn’t get me the person or the relationship I thought I wanted at the time, sounds like control!
In fact, I witnessed this person use other’s to further themselves prior and it made me lose respect for them, yet I still shared, so yes, it’s on me– I know that, and I would say I was looking for some type of validation by sharing it. Trying to prove myself invaluable, perhaps.
And no, it’s not an idea that I would have or could have executed–it’s not in my wheelhouse. To me, this person is like a politician, shaking hands, holding babies, empty promises and I find myself sick over the fact that I contributed and gave them a golden egg which is working like a charm.
I also agree, more focus generating and executing my ideas, which I do a lot of already, but some of the most important ones to me are still getting put on the back burner for a number of reasons which line up with why I can’t let this go…it’s convenient, it keeps me stuck.
Cheers for giving me feedback and a chance to hash it out a bit. Feeling some relief 🙂
Fussy
on 19/01/2017 at 6:23 pm
p.s. food for thought and with respect: only referred to the ex as them, they, or person. The assumption: they is a “he”.
SilverCloud
on 20/01/2017 at 1:17 am
Fussy,
You still have the ability to have good ideas (I got chills when I read that). This is good news.
In the context I think you might be speaking of, I have terrible ideas. (Failed artist; I’m okay with this.)
Anyhow, just be more (maybe even much more) careful with your precious jewels in the future (not to minimize what you’re going through) but trying to not make the same mistake is all you can do. And if you do make the same mistake again? Forgive yourself.
fussy
on 20/01/2017 at 1:50 am
Thank you, Silvercloud. I am much more protective of my soul, more thoughtful, and careful these days and with a DIY approach in every area of my life (that can often be exhausting) at least I am 100% independent. My choices, my decisions, and yup, I come first. Correction: my 16 yr old dog comes first, everyday!
Also…I believe a true artist is never a failure. It’s in your soul. It’s you!
Silvercloud
on 20/01/2017 at 2:02 am
Fussy,
I HAVE AN ADORED 15-YR-OLD dog 🙂 !!! (She is the love of my life.) I am obsessed with her, and that is one obsession I do not care to change.
“a true artist is never a failure”… I cried at that one. Thank you.
fussy
on 20/01/2017 at 2:33 am
Silver,
Yes, same here. My dog is everything to me. We are 100% in tune with each other…genuine, honest love!
Funny story you might appreciate: years ago I was entertaining the idea of getting involved with a pretty cute guy who suddenly made himself available to me. I hung out with him a few times, at his house, he would show up where I worked at the time, etc. but things hadn’t progress physically (thank god, I wasn’t sure about him) but we started pal’n around and my attraction was growing. He made a remark to me and it was the last time I EVER spoke to him again and trust me, I still saw him around regularly, we were in the same social scene. He asked snidely: do you always have to have your dog with you? That was it. The End. No explanation. See ya NEVER. I don’t even know if he knew what hit him, but I’ve often thought about it and laughed because I didn’t even second-guess it, deal-breaker, no interest in hearing why he would ask me that or concern that maybe I should accommodate him and not have my dog with me… Buh-Bye
The question: why do my past relationships show that had I not stood up for myself without any reserve like the way I stood up for my dog???? ????
Well, things are better these days????
fussy
on 20/01/2017 at 2:45 am
tried to insert smilies but they came out question marks ?
Things are better these days! I stand up for myself. But it is interesting how much crap I’ve personally taken over the years, absorbed blame etc, but you best not even think about messing with my dog.
Silvercloud
on 20/01/2017 at 6:51 am
Fussy,
Ha! The excessive question marks did kinda throw me off a bit. I was like, “Okay, creative writing here we go; I like this.”
You did the right thing by walking away at snideness toward your beloved. I would definitely choose my dog over anyone. Dementia and Einstein hair and all. *Especially Einstein hair*
Elgie R.
on 19/01/2017 at 7:27 pm
Your comments touched a nerve in me, Suki. I so live this – giving away good ideas then being resentful.
What keeps me from executing on my own behalf? Why do I fail myself ?
I’d chalk it up to laziness but I have so many examples of me working hard to implement ideas for other people…bosses. It never got me a ride up the corporate ladder, and at my last job, I think my immediate superior actually resented my capabilities…he put his thumb on me…felt like he made a decision that my career growth stopped where HE said it does.
You gave me real food for thought. Thank you, Suki.
Suki
on 19/01/2017 at 9:24 pm
I’m glad if it did so Elgie. I have struggled through this giving of ideas and now I either try not to expect anything if I am helping or try to resist giving ideas especially if there is the remotest chance I will regret it. I also see that sometimes people actually resent you for giving them ideas – gratitude is not an emotion people enjoy feeling. So not only will they not be thankful they will perversely maybe treat you worse to further convince themselves they had no need of you.
I grew up being told I must be grateful for literally everything given to me. It made me hugely resentful. I didn’t ask for a lot of that and giving should be out of love and not followed by threatening demands for gratitude (especially within families). I definitely used to give help to colleagues as a way to be more needed and I stopped after seeing that nobody respected me and I was getting used.
But so many other people will be, not grateful, but appreciative and happy that you help them and they will help you back. The other day someone gave me a good idea. I’m happy they did. And they didn’t want anything back. Perhaps the real trick is that our need for giving should either be totally out of love where you will not expect anything and discount any backlash or adjusted to the person where you give freely to those in your circle of trust.
Crystal
on 20/01/2017 at 12:05 am
Suki, why do you say that gratitude is not an emotion that people enjoy feeling?
Suki
on 20/01/2017 at 12:26 am
A good question, that made me think!!
I think some people in some situations don’t enjoy gratitude because it feels like a debt. Either they don’t know how to receive gracefully, or they carry out relationships with a give and take calculation. So when someone does something for them, they don’t want to feel grateful because they dont want the debt and they don’t want the other person having power over them through their ‘gift’ of help.
I think that’s why it’s also important not to ‘give’ or ‘help’ in ways that are too much for the level of your relationship or that you know the other person can’t reciprocate. Because by doing it you’re putting them in your debt.
Crystal
on 20/01/2017 at 1:25 am
Interesting, Suki. Your explanation reminded me of a friend I used to have. I had bought her a drink when we were out one night. Later that evening, she bought me one. And made a point of saying to me “Now we’re even!” It stuck in my mind as being very odd, not to mention taking the some of the joy out of me doing something nice for her. It’s one thing to keep a score card going in your own mind, quite another to broadcast it out loud I think. Both ways seem like sad ways to exist, always trying to keep track of innocent actions and perhaps ‘win’ by doing so.
fussy
on 20/01/2017 at 12:42 am
Suki, thanks for expounding further. Exchange of ideas and approach is giving me strength. I want to be free of the shackles keeping me invested in what someone else is or isn’t doing and get mad at myself when I react upon seeing something that reminds me that I got burned. The outrage can take over, even after all this time, which is why I posted originally. I needed to vomit it out !
Jane
on 19/01/2017 at 3:45 am
I was involved for the first time with a narc about two years ago. I was not attracted to him AT ALL when we first met. I even told him when we dated the first couple of months he needed to date other women. He kept pursuing me ardently. I fell for his charms. Fast forward a few more months and he was not the person I fell in love with. It was the worst break up I ever went through. “Lack of instant chemistry” doesn’t matter when you are with a Narc.
Laurie
on 19/01/2017 at 3:09 pm
One of your best posts yet and they are all great so that is saying a lot. reading your posts always make me feel more confident and put me back on track.
anna maruggi
on 19/01/2017 at 5:01 pm
Natalie, i must have real issues with self esteem, as i keep thinking about that certain someone who i think i have chemistry with, but in short, is very toxic for me. i can’t get my thinking of him out of my system. what to do, its been over 2 yrs, and he has no problem moving on quickly and seems to attract people that linger a long time.
help?
SilverCloud
on 20/01/2017 at 1:29 am
anna,
I was in a similar place five or so years ago, and did not listen to Nat’s advice to certain things. (I kept cheating no contact.) I went into obsessive mode over a mediocre man. I think you can choose. Choose to seek out resources on breakups and dating (I have yet to find better than here). Your mind can play tricks on you into thinking someone is your “soulmate”, when really it’s best to get away from them. If we haven’t worked out childhood issues, we will be drawn to people who represent the same kind of struggle (and Hell) we underwent as our younger selves. I was avoiding the truth of how cruel my family was with cruel men. It doesn’t make sense; that’s why it’s so agonizing, but we humans do this.
I strongly recommend Natalie’s Mr Unavailble and the FallbackGirl (Amazon), all her podcasts; they are gold, and then her new book: Love, Care, Trust, & Respect (Amazon). That should do it. And a competent, respectful therapist if one is available to you. You can get through all of this and be free of the obsession. I promise. But it will take a heck of a lot of work and commitment toward yourself.
Alix Lola
on 19/01/2017 at 5:06 pm
I usually go for chemistry when I meet a guy — I need that initial spark! And even though it dies down once the “honeymoon” phase is over, I think it’s important that it remains to some degree. I lacked sexual chemistry with a man I really liked , which I didn’t realize until we slept together 2 months into dating, and it was the demise of our relationship. We got along great otherwise, and we cared about each other, and we stuck it out for almost a year, but the lack of sexual chemistry was a black cloud hanging over us. Chemistry is part of a the relationship equation.
Carly M
on 19/01/2017 at 8:30 pm
I had an experience with a “separated” man who pursued me day and night last Summer. I was weary because he and his wife had been apart for only 8months but together for 13years and with two sons. My gut instinct was to leave this one alone, but eventually I returned to my default setting of Florence nightingale and felt sorry for him&they way he said his wife treated him badly for all of those years. Of course he was manipulating me but I started to enjoy the attention he gave me and eventually went out with him… Well the chemistry between us was off the scale and then t continued like that for about 3weeks. I couldn’t sleep, eat, my life became chaotic. All I wanted was him day&night because I had become addicted to brain chemicals my body was producing when we were together. We felt like we’d known each other our whole life. I felt like id been transported to higher dimension! Of course it all came crashing down when he completely changed into a guy I didn’t like, almost Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. I felt uneasy around him, and thought it was me because I’d been with a dozen Mr unavailables before and I must be projecting. I didn’t know my a*se from my elbow. I then realised I’d became dripping in codependency again. He just wanted to use me as a place to go/someone to “play” with until his wife welcomed him back. He “ghosted” on me when I told him I wasn’t happy at the way he was treating me and he’d better start taking me out again as I was bored.. Then..nothing.. He wouldn’t answer my phonecalls, the didn’t answer my texts. I’ve tortured myself wondering where he is and whether he’s back with his wife. Luckily its now opened up my interest in my own self as I was so focused on the external which left me empty so he had access to my lonely heart in the first place, not anymore. I’m filling up myself with love and new learning experiences. I’m evolving, growing and I keep on moving – away from “separated” men. Lesson learned. Love to all you people out there who get this xxxx
Jane Doe
on 20/01/2017 at 12:03 am
Same here. Except I never not liked him even when he was hurting my heart he was still a friend …it’s so lonely to fall for another woman’s husband. They are never separated it’s always a lie.
MillionReasons
on 19/01/2017 at 10:39 pm
From Carly: “I had an experience with a “separated” man who pursued me day and night last Summer…”
So did I! And for me that period of pursuit made each day wonderful. For a number of reasons we did not have physical contact for a few months. In a way that just added to the pursuit because it was romantic and had an element of the forbidden.
“felt sorry for him&they way he said his wife treated him badly for all of those years. Of course he was manipulating me but I started to enjoy the attention he gave me…”
Yes, the laser beam focus during the pursuit phase is intense.
“Well the chemistry between us was off the scale…”
“All I wanted was him day&night because I had become addicted to brain chemicals my body was producing when we were together…”
It was the same for me and I should have realized that the highs were OTT. Adding to it, his divorce, at that time, was imminent, or so he said. And as time went on and we experienced our “firsts” I bonded with him strongly.
“I’ve tortured myself wondering where he is and whether he’s back with his wife…”
In my situation the “imminent” divorce became “soon” then “after the holidays” then “after the spring semester”. Now there is no talk of divorce and they are back together.
I keep telling myself that he has every right to change his mind and to fall out of attraction. It could not be more clear that he is emotionally and physically no longer available to me. I find comfort in yoga, meditation and working on my playlists. I do though still feel overwhelmed by the pain and grief.
Jane Doe
on 20/01/2017 at 12:04 am
Same story the happy phase made every day a good day. I was so lonely before him and now I’m just not even living.
Carly M
on 21/01/2017 at 1:46 am
Jane, you will start living again, those feelings produced were yours and you can feel them without him because they were already there (within you).
I know how painful it is for you and I’ve often thought how I could ever have been so stupid as to fall for his lies. It felt so real at the time. At least we have both got the insight and wisdom to body swerve men like these from now on. I wish you well on your new adventures xx
Carly M
on 21/01/2017 at 10:49 am
For Millionreasons, I have been no contact with Married EUM since the end of Sept last year, and had been in so much pain just wanting to know where he is, the lies he must’ve told me about his wife to gain my attention were nothing short of gargantuan.. I’ve had opportunities to speak to a couple of people who he knows but I refuse to give away my energy on a human being who is like a cave man. I think he should remain in his cave while I evolve, I had to “lower” myself when I was with him which means I was out of alignment with my soul. We (both you and I) knew we were being tricked (if even on a deep subconscious level).. Millionreasons, you have so much to look forward to – surround yourself with women of integrity, and who are honest, creative and love themselves and you WILL start to feel empowered. Take back YOUR power. Much love Carly x
MillionReasons
on 23/01/2017 at 1:48 am
Thank you, Carly, for the supportive karma. For me it hasn’t even been 2 weeks since our last contact. This was not physical contact but a face to face conversation that lasted about an hour. I admire your resolve.
Actually the first few times he mentioned the ‘imminent’ divorce I believed him. She had moved to a different state and so eventually I asked him in which state he planned to file. Barely missed a beat- “we have not decided yet”. Still though; I wanted to believe him so much. Yes, you are correct, I pushed that as well as other things into my subconscious.
Beks
on 20/01/2017 at 3:46 pm
Just this morning a man sent me a message saying that he didn’t feel we had a “strong enough of a connection to meet”. We’d only messaged each other through a dating (introduction) website for a few days and talked on the phone for an hour on Wednesday evening. And to top it off he then asked me, “What do you think?” as if it’s up to me to change his mind and barter my worth. I told him that I agree we shouldn’t meet because its downright ridiculous to expect or determine whether or not we have a strong connection after just one phone call. I based my decision on his obvious lack of realism. Buh-bye! NEXT! Great article Natalie!
Suki
on 20/01/2017 at 5:03 pm
“based my decision on his obvious lack of realism” —- bravo! and i hope you told him that too!
Beks
on 20/01/2017 at 5:53 pm
I did!
Suki
on 20/01/2017 at 4:59 pm
I recently met someone that I liked. I don’t think it will go anywhere [won’t get into why, both having reasons to be cautious]. But what has been interesting is that while I think there is mutual interest, an attraction, I wouldn’t say there is that kind of crackling chemistry that I have had with people earlier [often with EUMs!].
This is sort of nicer, it feels more mature, where you aren’t falling over yourself or having the other person smother you with their interest and showing the funnest most exciting, charming parts of themselves. Its also less pressure, because I’m not doing that either. I don’t have to show up with the funniest, most appealing parts of myself on a platter. He might still be an EUM, but at least I’m not being subject to a wave of emotion, and chemistry addiction. AND without that, the feeling of wanting things to happen kind of goes away too. Maybe what I am saying is that attraction is not chemistry; you can be attracted and not feel that intense opiate hit.
Carly M
on 21/01/2017 at 10:33 am
Opiates! Not a truer word said Suki!! The comedown after these opiates cease being produced are pretty low, and not dissimilar to a heroine addict’s withdrawal, not physically but psychologically – I’m not getting on that crazy train again. Thanks for reminding me how powerful our brain chemistry can be towards certain individuals. Peace x
NoMo Drama
on 21/01/2017 at 9:46 pm
Chemistry is kind of like a spice, or hot sauce perhaps — without it what you’ve got may be pretty boring, but if you try to eat it by itself, straight from the jar, the result usually ranges from bad to disastrous.
I have also found that there is more than one variant of chemistry. I have learned to hold way back on the instant hot type, as there are too many known and unknown unknowns in the situation at that point. The kind that sneaks up on you as the relationship unfolds is often more reality- and sanity-based. This is why it is generally good policy to go on more than one date with someone if there wasn’t anything obviously wrong at the outset. If you let your hormones take charge, you may end up going around in circles, getting involved with essentially the same people over and over.
Shar
on 22/01/2017 at 12:35 pm
I have been in an on and off relationship with a Mr Unavailable for six years. He has fed me so many lies and every time he disappeared I would pine for him so much that I would swallow the lies wholeheartedly so I could take him back without hating myself. I have been obsessed with this man and the good times are the only things I would remember. He always had the mother of his child in the background. She would be the one always invited to family gatherings and he left me for her after the first 6 months we were together. They didn’t last long and back he came after a volatile couple of months. He always told me he hated her and he would never go back to her. I got so used to his disappearances and unexplained absences that I stopped pining for him because I knew he’d always come back, usually just for sex. With this new year arriving, I decided I would ask the Universe to help me detach from this man. I wanted to make room for something more substantial. I hated the thought of him hurting me again, so thought if I were to meet someone else, I would be able to detach totally from him- finally. Even last week he rang three times to ask to come around. I resisted three times because I at least wanted to put an end to the casual sex-only relationship. Then on facebook yesterday, I saw that he got married to his ex on Saturday.
I am in shock, I am devastated, I am in pain that I have been passed over for someone else – the same thing that has happened after my marriage dissolved, and another two relationships – they all ended up marrying someone else.
I can’t stop thinking about him with his now wife and their wedding, which I secretly dreamed of having with him. I don’t know how to end this pain. I feel like my life is too painful.
Shar
on 22/01/2017 at 12:47 pm
Someone please tell me the pain will subside…..
Eli
on 22/01/2017 at 4:29 pm
It will. It might not be a quick or an easy process but you will get past it. At heart you knew what the relationship was and you had the right instinct – to move on. Keep going, it will probably be difficult, but ( the bit you’ve got to hold on to) not impossible. Good luck.
Suki
on 22/01/2017 at 5:37 pm
So this guy that you are in an on and off relationship w got married. So he was cheating on his now wife, then fiancé, unless they eloped on a days notice. The odds are very high he will be back.
The pain will subside. I think in fact you should feel it. You should allow yourself to grieve. You should lie on the floor and not talk yourself out of it. For a few days. The reason is that some part of you actually doesn’t take yourself very seriously. It’s totally understandable that it hurts. But he didn’t betray you. You knew what he was. You’re betraying you by hanging on to this addiction to HiM which is actually an addiction to the belief that you deserve to be treated badly. Or addiction to the belief that it’s not in your control which is a way to avoid responsibility.
You haven’t been passed over for someone else. Or if you were it’s because he’s been passing you over since he knew you and you decided that that was ok. It’s your choice to believe you were passed over. It’s your interpretation that a man you were casually seeing and in fact trying to break up with, when such a man ups and marries someone else (showing that he’s either bonkers and impulsive or was trying to cheat on his fiancé), that this means you’ve been passed over. Yes! You’ve been passed over from getting an Std from this guy or another divorce. It’s your choice how to see it.
Shar
on 22/01/2017 at 9:35 pm
Thanks for the honesty. You are so right and I always knew it. I have such low self worth to have kept allowing it, thinking that every time I agreed to see him, something would be different. I think part of my pain is about betraying myself for the slimmest of hopes that he would commit.
I am absolutely feeling it atm – the pain of what I have allowed most of my life for the payoff of feeling loved. I know the only thing left for me is to learn to love, care, trust and respect myself, but I just don’t know how to. But that’s the goal.
Thanks for your help, it’s what I needed to get out of my pity party.
Suki
on 22/01/2017 at 10:26 pm
I think thats why I said to let yourself feel the grief. Because at heart its your belief that you’re unloved and unlovable which led you to let him manage down your expectations to nothing. AND it still broke your heart. Thats cuz you’re a sensitive person. You’re not the person for casual relationships. Nat has some pages on that.
The way I explained my EUM to myself so I wouldn’t feel foolish was —- sometimes we know we’re [in love / attracted / involved / whatever] with an idiot, but it just takes us a while to catch up with our minds. And thats okay. It happens. You can forgive yourself and do differently next time. You say that this has happened to you before; but maybe when you look closely it might be that you knowingly took up with bad bets and ‘lost’. Or, you took up with bad bets, and thankfully, lost every time 🙂 Those guys were obviously not in a mutual relationship with you or they wouldn’t have left, so its good they are out of your life, and now you have a chance to sit and think about your patterns. You have enough data points to see how YOU tend to behave in the face of bad behavior or rejection and abandonment. You might never feel differently, rejection always hurts, but you can definitely behave differently.
I’m having a difficult day because of work reasons. So I’m trying to write through everything and at least mentally work through it all even if my emotions cant catch up. Try it.
Shar
on 23/01/2017 at 1:08 am
Thanks Suki. You write like Nat. I need to keep on this site to hear from others like yourself so I will continue with my goal of at least caring for myself. I hope your day gets better.
Elgie R.
on 23/01/2017 at 4:04 am
I don’t think this is about a woman hanging on to a man because she believes she deserves to be treated badly. I think woman fall in love with the way a man looks. And because the way he looks makes her feel all giddy inside, and makes her feel like she is special because this great looking man wants her company. She receives such a rush of validation from it. He wants ME!
And I don’t even think it is about being shallow…..being attracted to good looks.
I think it is because we women are raised to be hungry for external validation. We are conditioned to seek external validation and to expect external validation and to judge ourselves via external validation, mostly in the arena of physical looks.
Some of us are so in need of external validation that we give all of ourselves to a man simply for the price of some focused attention….meaning if he gives us some attention….. texts/ conversation /voice message……we become committed to keeping him in our lives. We do stupid things just to keep getting a “hit of attention”.
This need for external validation is deeply rooted in so many women. Men aren’t immune, but for women, it is epidemic. And we reach for the low-hanging fruit just to get some validation.
blue74
on 23/01/2017 at 8:19 am
Hi,
I really think that’s right/ true- in my case it surely is!
I got hooked by his looks / chemistry and the attention he was showering me with…
Even though I am a survivor of an abusive childhood- I really think that don’t (subconciously) want to relive and resolve it! I want to find love- with a man I find attractive and who is attentive/ interessted in me.
From there on it’s a 50:50 chance if you meet and fall for an AC or if he’s a good guy….
(Sorry- I’m no native english speaker!)
Shar
on 23/01/2017 at 12:10 pm
Very true. Well that’s how it’s happened for me anyway. But I guess that’s why Nat writes what she does – to show we women that we don’t have to do it that way. That we can be re-conditioned to validate ourselves instead of looking for the external validation from anyone, let alone assclowns and EUM’s. I just hope I can really change things from here on.
MillionReasons
on 23/01/2017 at 9:15 pm
From Elgie R: “I think woman fall in love with the way a man looks. And because the way he looks makes her feel all giddy inside, and makes her feel like she is special because this great looking man wants her company. She receives such a rush of validation from it. He wants ME!”
From blue74: “I got hooked by his looks / chemistry and the attention he was showering me with…”
For me the lust component has always been strong. And then, as said above, the pure rush of that validation is so intense it can be overwhelming. Well, I’m interpreting- anyway; I can only speak for myself.
Henny
on 27/01/2017 at 9:08 am
I feel terrible. I re-connected with someone I rejected some time ago, because I didn’t feel attracted to him at all on our first meeting. However, after faithfully reading BR blogs I thought that as he was so nice I should give it a second try. I hoped this would be a casual ‘let’s see’ meeting. But he went all out booking an amazing restaurant, insisted on paying and at the end of the evening when he dropped me home, he produced a big bouquet of flowers. I was mortified. Now I don’t know what to do. I still don’t feel attracted to him. We had a perfectly nice evening. There was no awkwardness. Of course I thanked him for dinner and the flowers, kissed him on the cheek and that was that. Thoughts on what to do next? I have been hurt so many times, I don’t wish to do the same to this nice man.
Rebekah
on 29/01/2017 at 11:38 am
I’m praying the next time I feel chemistry I won’t repeat my patterns and all this studying what you are sharing will finally click. I’m ready to feel like this is working and altering who I experience chemistry with. I’m sick to death of my patterns.
I’ve been running Baggage Reclaim since September 2005, and I’ve spent many thousands of hours writing this labour of love. The site has been ad-free the entire time, and it costs hundreds of pounds a month to run it on my own. If what I share here has helped you and you’re in a position to do so, I would love if you could make a donation. Your support is so very much appreciated! Thank you.
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Let us not forget that addiction is a chemical, psychological, mental, emotional, and behavioral process.
When I hear people say they want chemistry above all in relationships, I think to myself, “What! The roller coaster ride of being chemically controlled by an external source?”
We have to create our excitement via healthy sources, not ones that deplete us. If you want excitement, go on a hike, travel to a hot spring, embark on a healthy career change, join a community group, publish your writing, show your art, exhibit your photos. Challenge you in a healthy way.
Looking for a lover to spice things up in our lives or fill a void is simply distraction.
I had a magnetic attraction to an ex. Why? Because he was physically similar to a family member who incested me as a child, and I needed to work out all the deep, horrifying pains from the catastrophically predatory actions that took place in that home for years that I had been denying for ages.
Did I learn from that relationship and get out in time to heal? Barely.
I suggest not dating dubious people in order to work through childhood hurts (which is what most of us do). Perhaps this can be avoided, if we are diligent and honest with ourselves and our actions, and seek appropriate, and or professional help when it is merited.
If you’re looking for the chemistry connection fantasy where this magical magnetic person comes to sweep you and all your problems off your feet, you’re in for a bitter bitter surprise and an all too harsh reality when this not only does not happen but brings you face to face with what you’ve been avoiding (yourself) anyway.
Thank you for putting that all into words so well. I am copying this and saving it to refrence when needed.
Sugarhoneyicetea,
Oh! Wow, I am flattered, but above all, grateful that it helped somebody out.
I love your name btw; all my favorite things!
SilverC,
“We have to create our excitement via healthy sources, not ones that deplete us. If you want excitement, go on a hike, travel to a hot spring, embark on a healthy career change, join a community group, publish your writing, show your art, exhibit your photos. Challenge you in a healthy way.”
This is the best advice. With encouragement from hearing your words in my head, I decided to do something this weekend that proved to be nothing short of healthy excitement, and I really needed a dose. Thanks!
I have this problem with bosses. Some how I keep saying yes to jobs that have the same narcissistic, mid 30-40s female at the helm. Each time gets more catastrophic in behaviour and in emotional damage. Great tips here–4th job is the charm they say, right?
Narcissist bosses are now the norm. Have a business on the side and don’t tell anyone at work.
The narcs need to be together in a leper colony.
Hi Leigh,
I’ve noticed this paradigm myself and started to assume the Universe wanted me to work out my issues with my narcissistic parent. There was always a woman in a position of authority who was so threatened by me that she would set out to chop me off at the knees for doing my job well and making her “look bad” by comparison – my mother to a tee!
This article came at EXACTLY the perfect moment for me.
I’ve been dating a guy from school (I’m 22 and in college) for almost a month now. Initially, there was no “hit” of chemistry and I’ve found myself questioning myself and my choice in dating him because of this perceived “lack of chemistry.”
In the past, I’ve used chemistry to choose guys and, when I did, the guys were almost always emotionally unavailable in some way and only wanted “one thing.” With the guy that I’m dating now, I feel this odd sense of calm; I feel like I can be myself and, so far, he’s been incredibly accepting of me as well as encouraging and patient (even when I thought that I had “messed things up” with him).
It’s hard to train myself out of a “chemistry first” mindset (because it’s the thought process I’ve always defaulted to), but I love what wrote in the article were you say, “If paying attention to chemistry isn’t working for you, pay attention to whether you’re more of who you are, whether things feel and are different to how they have been (which might include it being calm), and paying attention to whether the signs of a relationship that’s going somewhere good are unfolding.” I’ll definitely be using this line of thinking from now on when I start to default into “chemistry first” because I know where that leads (Mr. Unavailable, anyone?)
Danielle,
I used to think I thrived in chaos. Probably not, but anyhow, my therapist and I have been working deeply on accepting that place of clam.
I’ve really grown to value calmness, kindness, and honesty over the past month. I can’t imagine myself choosing something so hectic as I used to.
My therapist explained that when you grow up in a less than stellar environment, you get hooked on the adrenaline that fuels chaos.
I grew up with constant drama and, unfortunately missed out on all the pretty sunsets, beaches, nature reserves, canyons, hikes, swim holes and hot sprigs to soothe a human being right down to their bones.
I feel a lot of rewiring goes on in the brain during healing.
*Hot Springs* I looked up the definition of sprig and can’t stop laughing; I don’t know why because it’s not that funny.
*Place of calm* Not clam. Oh, god, rereading the whole of that phrase is actually very funny but not intended.
Amazing the difference the order of two letters make.
These days, when I feel that “instant chemistry”with someone, it’s a red flag that I am slipping back into accepting an emotionally unavailable person as “good enough.”
They’re not good enough. Not anymore.
Though I feel healed from the emotionally abusive narcissistic, married ratf**k from a few years ago, and life is great, I still haven’t figured out quite how to find an emotionally open, sincere person of good character. So, I am trying to be those good things and I hope like attracts like.
How do you get over an ex who steals an idea that you spoon-fed them and when you point out they’re using your idea, they claim it was all their idea, and in fact, they had that idea before you ever shared it with them (complete lie). Thing is they are in the public eye. I can’t not see it and it’s never going to stop, ever and it feels like they’re rubbing my nose in it. By the way, I’ve been no contact for several years but do not know how to reconcile this. I just can’t get there.
therapy. How does one steal what has been spoon fed to one? You could question your desire to give ideas away, in fact to ‘spoon feed’ them – by this I assume, it wasn’t a throwaway comment, it was something you carefully and diligently informed your ex about. Why? Why not keep it to yourself? Did you think you could execute it? Did you want him to feel admiration or debt to you? I know this sounds like pinning the responsibility on you – I don’t think your ex is wrong to steal the idea unfortunately. It was there, he took it. You gave it to him. He’s churlish and immature and insecure to not attribute it at least the first few times he used it or give you some other type of credit. But he’s not wrong to take it. Thats his business. Also, eventually its not just your idea – he did execute it. Whatever it is, he put money and energy behind it, he saw it through to its end.
Is this an idea you could have used yourself? What really is driving your feelings of …? Whats the feeling being triggered here?
I sometimes think the giving away of ideas is also a form of control, a type of desire to be noticed, and a desire for gratitude. It means you’re surrounding yourself with less than bright people and trying to ‘help’ them. The cost to you is the resentment it causes. Ideas are like butterflies, they come and go. Give this one up. Reassure yourself that you have many more where that came from. Use them for yourself. The more you resent this, the less you are coming up with ideas for yourself, or ideas to feel better. There are infinite ideas.
^^^This. All day long.
Suki,
Thank you. I do consider the points and questions you have brought up–all of them. One grand conclusion: I have good ideas
And I do accept responsibility for “spoon feeding” the idea. I’m really just mad at myself. I ask myself why did I do that with someone who I didn’t really trust anymore and why can’t I let it go?
The good news: I am now way more conscientious about myself and my own needs come first when relating to others (friends, family and no romantic relationships to speak of yet). I’ve been working pretty hard (still in progress) to identify my unhealthy behaviors, revise, adjust, and identify triggers. I’ve made real, tangible strides and significant changes that I’m proud of, and I don’t see a situation like this happening again in my future. I take a lot of pauses now…
And I agree–ideas are like butterflies, but this one got stuck in my craw because of seeing it come up since it involves other people that I’ve known for years. It triggers many things: how I felt used throughout this and other relationships ( while unhappily sticking with it), how I’ve felt like I haven’t gotten the credit that I deserve throughout my life, which is on me (making myself small, letting others shine=resentment, hurt feelings), and how it didn’t get me the person or the relationship I thought I wanted at the time, sounds like control!
In fact, I witnessed this person use other’s to further themselves prior and it made me lose respect for them, yet I still shared, so yes, it’s on me– I know that, and I would say I was looking for some type of validation by sharing it. Trying to prove myself invaluable, perhaps.
And no, it’s not an idea that I would have or could have executed–it’s not in my wheelhouse. To me, this person is like a politician, shaking hands, holding babies, empty promises and I find myself sick over the fact that I contributed and gave them a golden egg which is working like a charm.
I also agree, more focus generating and executing my ideas, which I do a lot of already, but some of the most important ones to me are still getting put on the back burner for a number of reasons which line up with why I can’t let this go…it’s convenient, it keeps me stuck.
Cheers for giving me feedback and a chance to hash it out a bit. Feeling some relief 🙂
p.s. food for thought and with respect: only referred to the ex as them, they, or person. The assumption: they is a “he”.
Fussy,
You still have the ability to have good ideas (I got chills when I read that). This is good news.
In the context I think you might be speaking of, I have terrible ideas. (Failed artist; I’m okay with this.)
Anyhow, just be more (maybe even much more) careful with your precious jewels in the future (not to minimize what you’re going through) but trying to not make the same mistake is all you can do. And if you do make the same mistake again? Forgive yourself.
Thank you, Silvercloud. I am much more protective of my soul, more thoughtful, and careful these days and with a DIY approach in every area of my life (that can often be exhausting) at least I am 100% independent. My choices, my decisions, and yup, I come first. Correction: my 16 yr old dog comes first, everyday!
Also…I believe a true artist is never a failure. It’s in your soul. It’s you!
Fussy,
I HAVE AN ADORED 15-YR-OLD dog 🙂 !!! (She is the love of my life.) I am obsessed with her, and that is one obsession I do not care to change.
“a true artist is never a failure”… I cried at that one. Thank you.
Silver,
Yes, same here. My dog is everything to me. We are 100% in tune with each other…genuine, honest love!
Funny story you might appreciate: years ago I was entertaining the idea of getting involved with a pretty cute guy who suddenly made himself available to me. I hung out with him a few times, at his house, he would show up where I worked at the time, etc. but things hadn’t progress physically (thank god, I wasn’t sure about him) but we started pal’n around and my attraction was growing. He made a remark to me and it was the last time I EVER spoke to him again and trust me, I still saw him around regularly, we were in the same social scene. He asked snidely: do you always have to have your dog with you? That was it. The End. No explanation. See ya NEVER. I don’t even know if he knew what hit him, but I’ve often thought about it and laughed because I didn’t even second-guess it, deal-breaker, no interest in hearing why he would ask me that or concern that maybe I should accommodate him and not have my dog with me… Buh-Bye
The question: why do my past relationships show that had I not stood up for myself without any reserve like the way I stood up for my dog???? ????
Well, things are better these days????
tried to insert smilies but they came out question marks ?
Things are better these days! I stand up for myself. But it is interesting how much crap I’ve personally taken over the years, absorbed blame etc, but you best not even think about messing with my dog.
Fussy,
Ha! The excessive question marks did kinda throw me off a bit. I was like, “Okay, creative writing here we go; I like this.”
You did the right thing by walking away at snideness toward your beloved. I would definitely choose my dog over anyone. Dementia and Einstein hair and all. *Especially Einstein hair*
Your comments touched a nerve in me, Suki. I so live this – giving away good ideas then being resentful.
What keeps me from executing on my own behalf? Why do I fail myself ?
I’d chalk it up to laziness but I have so many examples of me working hard to implement ideas for other people…bosses. It never got me a ride up the corporate ladder, and at my last job, I think my immediate superior actually resented my capabilities…he put his thumb on me…felt like he made a decision that my career growth stopped where HE said it does.
You gave me real food for thought. Thank you, Suki.
I’m glad if it did so Elgie. I have struggled through this giving of ideas and now I either try not to expect anything if I am helping or try to resist giving ideas especially if there is the remotest chance I will regret it. I also see that sometimes people actually resent you for giving them ideas – gratitude is not an emotion people enjoy feeling. So not only will they not be thankful they will perversely maybe treat you worse to further convince themselves they had no need of you.
I grew up being told I must be grateful for literally everything given to me. It made me hugely resentful. I didn’t ask for a lot of that and giving should be out of love and not followed by threatening demands for gratitude (especially within families). I definitely used to give help to colleagues as a way to be more needed and I stopped after seeing that nobody respected me and I was getting used.
But so many other people will be, not grateful, but appreciative and happy that you help them and they will help you back. The other day someone gave me a good idea. I’m happy they did. And they didn’t want anything back. Perhaps the real trick is that our need for giving should either be totally out of love where you will not expect anything and discount any backlash or adjusted to the person where you give freely to those in your circle of trust.
Suki, why do you say that gratitude is not an emotion that people enjoy feeling?
A good question, that made me think!!
I think some people in some situations don’t enjoy gratitude because it feels like a debt. Either they don’t know how to receive gracefully, or they carry out relationships with a give and take calculation. So when someone does something for them, they don’t want to feel grateful because they dont want the debt and they don’t want the other person having power over them through their ‘gift’ of help.
I think that’s why it’s also important not to ‘give’ or ‘help’ in ways that are too much for the level of your relationship or that you know the other person can’t reciprocate. Because by doing it you’re putting them in your debt.
Interesting, Suki. Your explanation reminded me of a friend I used to have. I had bought her a drink when we were out one night. Later that evening, she bought me one. And made a point of saying to me “Now we’re even!” It stuck in my mind as being very odd, not to mention taking the some of the joy out of me doing something nice for her. It’s one thing to keep a score card going in your own mind, quite another to broadcast it out loud I think. Both ways seem like sad ways to exist, always trying to keep track of innocent actions and perhaps ‘win’ by doing so.
Suki, thanks for expounding further. Exchange of ideas and approach is giving me strength. I want to be free of the shackles keeping me invested in what someone else is or isn’t doing and get mad at myself when I react upon seeing something that reminds me that I got burned. The outrage can take over, even after all this time, which is why I posted originally. I needed to vomit it out !
I was involved for the first time with a narc about two years ago. I was not attracted to him AT ALL when we first met. I even told him when we dated the first couple of months he needed to date other women. He kept pursuing me ardently. I fell for his charms. Fast forward a few more months and he was not the person I fell in love with. It was the worst break up I ever went through. “Lack of instant chemistry” doesn’t matter when you are with a Narc.
One of your best posts yet and they are all great so that is saying a lot. reading your posts always make me feel more confident and put me back on track.
Natalie, i must have real issues with self esteem, as i keep thinking about that certain someone who i think i have chemistry with, but in short, is very toxic for me. i can’t get my thinking of him out of my system. what to do, its been over 2 yrs, and he has no problem moving on quickly and seems to attract people that linger a long time.
help?
anna,
I was in a similar place five or so years ago, and did not listen to Nat’s advice to certain things. (I kept cheating no contact.) I went into obsessive mode over a mediocre man. I think you can choose. Choose to seek out resources on breakups and dating (I have yet to find better than here). Your mind can play tricks on you into thinking someone is your “soulmate”, when really it’s best to get away from them. If we haven’t worked out childhood issues, we will be drawn to people who represent the same kind of struggle (and Hell) we underwent as our younger selves. I was avoiding the truth of how cruel my family was with cruel men. It doesn’t make sense; that’s why it’s so agonizing, but we humans do this.
I strongly recommend Natalie’s Mr Unavailble and the FallbackGirl (Amazon), all her podcasts; they are gold, and then her new book: Love, Care, Trust, & Respect (Amazon). That should do it. And a competent, respectful therapist if one is available to you. You can get through all of this and be free of the obsession. I promise. But it will take a heck of a lot of work and commitment toward yourself.
I usually go for chemistry when I meet a guy — I need that initial spark! And even though it dies down once the “honeymoon” phase is over, I think it’s important that it remains to some degree. I lacked sexual chemistry with a man I really liked , which I didn’t realize until we slept together 2 months into dating, and it was the demise of our relationship. We got along great otherwise, and we cared about each other, and we stuck it out for almost a year, but the lack of sexual chemistry was a black cloud hanging over us. Chemistry is part of a the relationship equation.
I had an experience with a “separated” man who pursued me day and night last Summer. I was weary because he and his wife had been apart for only 8months but together for 13years and with two sons. My gut instinct was to leave this one alone, but eventually I returned to my default setting of Florence nightingale and felt sorry for him&they way he said his wife treated him badly for all of those years. Of course he was manipulating me but I started to enjoy the attention he gave me and eventually went out with him… Well the chemistry between us was off the scale and then t continued like that for about 3weeks. I couldn’t sleep, eat, my life became chaotic. All I wanted was him day&night because I had become addicted to brain chemicals my body was producing when we were together. We felt like we’d known each other our whole life. I felt like id been transported to higher dimension! Of course it all came crashing down when he completely changed into a guy I didn’t like, almost Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde. I felt uneasy around him, and thought it was me because I’d been with a dozen Mr unavailables before and I must be projecting. I didn’t know my a*se from my elbow. I then realised I’d became dripping in codependency again. He just wanted to use me as a place to go/someone to “play” with until his wife welcomed him back. He “ghosted” on me when I told him I wasn’t happy at the way he was treating me and he’d better start taking me out again as I was bored.. Then..nothing.. He wouldn’t answer my phonecalls, the didn’t answer my texts. I’ve tortured myself wondering where he is and whether he’s back with his wife. Luckily its now opened up my interest in my own self as I was so focused on the external which left me empty so he had access to my lonely heart in the first place, not anymore. I’m filling up myself with love and new learning experiences. I’m evolving, growing and I keep on moving – away from “separated” men. Lesson learned. Love to all you people out there who get this xxxx
Same here. Except I never not liked him even when he was hurting my heart he was still a friend …it’s so lonely to fall for another woman’s husband. They are never separated it’s always a lie.
From Carly: “I had an experience with a “separated” man who pursued me day and night last Summer…”
So did I! And for me that period of pursuit made each day wonderful. For a number of reasons we did not have physical contact for a few months. In a way that just added to the pursuit because it was romantic and had an element of the forbidden.
“felt sorry for him&they way he said his wife treated him badly for all of those years. Of course he was manipulating me but I started to enjoy the attention he gave me…”
Yes, the laser beam focus during the pursuit phase is intense.
“Well the chemistry between us was off the scale…”
“All I wanted was him day&night because I had become addicted to brain chemicals my body was producing when we were together…”
It was the same for me and I should have realized that the highs were OTT. Adding to it, his divorce, at that time, was imminent, or so he said. And as time went on and we experienced our “firsts” I bonded with him strongly.
“I’ve tortured myself wondering where he is and whether he’s back with his wife…”
In my situation the “imminent” divorce became “soon” then “after the holidays” then “after the spring semester”. Now there is no talk of divorce and they are back together.
I keep telling myself that he has every right to change his mind and to fall out of attraction. It could not be more clear that he is emotionally and physically no longer available to me. I find comfort in yoga, meditation and working on my playlists. I do though still feel overwhelmed by the pain and grief.
Same story the happy phase made every day a good day. I was so lonely before him and now I’m just not even living.
Jane, you will start living again, those feelings produced were yours and you can feel them without him because they were already there (within you).
I know how painful it is for you and I’ve often thought how I could ever have been so stupid as to fall for his lies. It felt so real at the time. At least we have both got the insight and wisdom to body swerve men like these from now on. I wish you well on your new adventures xx
For Millionreasons, I have been no contact with Married EUM since the end of Sept last year, and had been in so much pain just wanting to know where he is, the lies he must’ve told me about his wife to gain my attention were nothing short of gargantuan.. I’ve had opportunities to speak to a couple of people who he knows but I refuse to give away my energy on a human being who is like a cave man. I think he should remain in his cave while I evolve, I had to “lower” myself when I was with him which means I was out of alignment with my soul. We (both you and I) knew we were being tricked (if even on a deep subconscious level).. Millionreasons, you have so much to look forward to – surround yourself with women of integrity, and who are honest, creative and love themselves and you WILL start to feel empowered. Take back YOUR power. Much love Carly x
Thank you, Carly, for the supportive karma. For me it hasn’t even been 2 weeks since our last contact. This was not physical contact but a face to face conversation that lasted about an hour. I admire your resolve.
Actually the first few times he mentioned the ‘imminent’ divorce I believed him. She had moved to a different state and so eventually I asked him in which state he planned to file. Barely missed a beat- “we have not decided yet”. Still though; I wanted to believe him so much. Yes, you are correct, I pushed that as well as other things into my subconscious.
Just this morning a man sent me a message saying that he didn’t feel we had a “strong enough of a connection to meet”. We’d only messaged each other through a dating (introduction) website for a few days and talked on the phone for an hour on Wednesday evening. And to top it off he then asked me, “What do you think?” as if it’s up to me to change his mind and barter my worth. I told him that I agree we shouldn’t meet because its downright ridiculous to expect or determine whether or not we have a strong connection after just one phone call. I based my decision on his obvious lack of realism. Buh-bye! NEXT! Great article Natalie!
“based my decision on his obvious lack of realism” —- bravo! and i hope you told him that too!
I did!
I recently met someone that I liked. I don’t think it will go anywhere [won’t get into why, both having reasons to be cautious]. But what has been interesting is that while I think there is mutual interest, an attraction, I wouldn’t say there is that kind of crackling chemistry that I have had with people earlier [often with EUMs!].
This is sort of nicer, it feels more mature, where you aren’t falling over yourself or having the other person smother you with their interest and showing the funnest most exciting, charming parts of themselves. Its also less pressure, because I’m not doing that either. I don’t have to show up with the funniest, most appealing parts of myself on a platter. He might still be an EUM, but at least I’m not being subject to a wave of emotion, and chemistry addiction. AND without that, the feeling of wanting things to happen kind of goes away too. Maybe what I am saying is that attraction is not chemistry; you can be attracted and not feel that intense opiate hit.
Opiates! Not a truer word said Suki!! The comedown after these opiates cease being produced are pretty low, and not dissimilar to a heroine addict’s withdrawal, not physically but psychologically – I’m not getting on that crazy train again. Thanks for reminding me how powerful our brain chemistry can be towards certain individuals. Peace x
Chemistry is kind of like a spice, or hot sauce perhaps — without it what you’ve got may be pretty boring, but if you try to eat it by itself, straight from the jar, the result usually ranges from bad to disastrous.
I have also found that there is more than one variant of chemistry. I have learned to hold way back on the instant hot type, as there are too many known and unknown unknowns in the situation at that point. The kind that sneaks up on you as the relationship unfolds is often more reality- and sanity-based. This is why it is generally good policy to go on more than one date with someone if there wasn’t anything obviously wrong at the outset. If you let your hormones take charge, you may end up going around in circles, getting involved with essentially the same people over and over.
I have been in an on and off relationship with a Mr Unavailable for six years. He has fed me so many lies and every time he disappeared I would pine for him so much that I would swallow the lies wholeheartedly so I could take him back without hating myself. I have been obsessed with this man and the good times are the only things I would remember. He always had the mother of his child in the background. She would be the one always invited to family gatherings and he left me for her after the first 6 months we were together. They didn’t last long and back he came after a volatile couple of months. He always told me he hated her and he would never go back to her. I got so used to his disappearances and unexplained absences that I stopped pining for him because I knew he’d always come back, usually just for sex. With this new year arriving, I decided I would ask the Universe to help me detach from this man. I wanted to make room for something more substantial. I hated the thought of him hurting me again, so thought if I were to meet someone else, I would be able to detach totally from him- finally. Even last week he rang three times to ask to come around. I resisted three times because I at least wanted to put an end to the casual sex-only relationship. Then on facebook yesterday, I saw that he got married to his ex on Saturday.
I am in shock, I am devastated, I am in pain that I have been passed over for someone else – the same thing that has happened after my marriage dissolved, and another two relationships – they all ended up marrying someone else.
I can’t stop thinking about him with his now wife and their wedding, which I secretly dreamed of having with him. I don’t know how to end this pain. I feel like my life is too painful.
Someone please tell me the pain will subside…..
It will. It might not be a quick or an easy process but you will get past it. At heart you knew what the relationship was and you had the right instinct – to move on. Keep going, it will probably be difficult, but ( the bit you’ve got to hold on to) not impossible. Good luck.
So this guy that you are in an on and off relationship w got married. So he was cheating on his now wife, then fiancé, unless they eloped on a days notice. The odds are very high he will be back.
The pain will subside. I think in fact you should feel it. You should allow yourself to grieve. You should lie on the floor and not talk yourself out of it. For a few days. The reason is that some part of you actually doesn’t take yourself very seriously. It’s totally understandable that it hurts. But he didn’t betray you. You knew what he was. You’re betraying you by hanging on to this addiction to HiM which is actually an addiction to the belief that you deserve to be treated badly. Or addiction to the belief that it’s not in your control which is a way to avoid responsibility.
You haven’t been passed over for someone else. Or if you were it’s because he’s been passing you over since he knew you and you decided that that was ok. It’s your choice to believe you were passed over. It’s your interpretation that a man you were casually seeing and in fact trying to break up with, when such a man ups and marries someone else (showing that he’s either bonkers and impulsive or was trying to cheat on his fiancé), that this means you’ve been passed over. Yes! You’ve been passed over from getting an Std from this guy or another divorce. It’s your choice how to see it.
Thanks for the honesty. You are so right and I always knew it. I have such low self worth to have kept allowing it, thinking that every time I agreed to see him, something would be different. I think part of my pain is about betraying myself for the slimmest of hopes that he would commit.
I am absolutely feeling it atm – the pain of what I have allowed most of my life for the payoff of feeling loved. I know the only thing left for me is to learn to love, care, trust and respect myself, but I just don’t know how to. But that’s the goal.
Thanks for your help, it’s what I needed to get out of my pity party.
I think thats why I said to let yourself feel the grief. Because at heart its your belief that you’re unloved and unlovable which led you to let him manage down your expectations to nothing. AND it still broke your heart. Thats cuz you’re a sensitive person. You’re not the person for casual relationships. Nat has some pages on that.
The way I explained my EUM to myself so I wouldn’t feel foolish was —- sometimes we know we’re [in love / attracted / involved / whatever] with an idiot, but it just takes us a while to catch up with our minds. And thats okay. It happens. You can forgive yourself and do differently next time. You say that this has happened to you before; but maybe when you look closely it might be that you knowingly took up with bad bets and ‘lost’. Or, you took up with bad bets, and thankfully, lost every time 🙂 Those guys were obviously not in a mutual relationship with you or they wouldn’t have left, so its good they are out of your life, and now you have a chance to sit and think about your patterns. You have enough data points to see how YOU tend to behave in the face of bad behavior or rejection and abandonment. You might never feel differently, rejection always hurts, but you can definitely behave differently.
I’m having a difficult day because of work reasons. So I’m trying to write through everything and at least mentally work through it all even if my emotions cant catch up. Try it.
Thanks Suki. You write like Nat. I need to keep on this site to hear from others like yourself so I will continue with my goal of at least caring for myself. I hope your day gets better.
I don’t think this is about a woman hanging on to a man because she believes she deserves to be treated badly. I think woman fall in love with the way a man looks. And because the way he looks makes her feel all giddy inside, and makes her feel like she is special because this great looking man wants her company. She receives such a rush of validation from it. He wants ME!
And I don’t even think it is about being shallow…..being attracted to good looks.
I think it is because we women are raised to be hungry for external validation. We are conditioned to seek external validation and to expect external validation and to judge ourselves via external validation, mostly in the arena of physical looks.
Some of us are so in need of external validation that we give all of ourselves to a man simply for the price of some focused attention….meaning if he gives us some attention….. texts/ conversation /voice message……we become committed to keeping him in our lives. We do stupid things just to keep getting a “hit of attention”.
This need for external validation is deeply rooted in so many women. Men aren’t immune, but for women, it is epidemic. And we reach for the low-hanging fruit just to get some validation.
Hi,
I really think that’s right/ true- in my case it surely is!
I got hooked by his looks / chemistry and the attention he was showering me with…
Even though I am a survivor of an abusive childhood- I really think that don’t (subconciously) want to relive and resolve it! I want to find love- with a man I find attractive and who is attentive/ interessted in me.
From there on it’s a 50:50 chance if you meet and fall for an AC or if he’s a good guy….
(Sorry- I’m no native english speaker!)
Very true. Well that’s how it’s happened for me anyway. But I guess that’s why Nat writes what she does – to show we women that we don’t have to do it that way. That we can be re-conditioned to validate ourselves instead of looking for the external validation from anyone, let alone assclowns and EUM’s. I just hope I can really change things from here on.
From Elgie R: “I think woman fall in love with the way a man looks. And because the way he looks makes her feel all giddy inside, and makes her feel like she is special because this great looking man wants her company. She receives such a rush of validation from it. He wants ME!”
From blue74: “I got hooked by his looks / chemistry and the attention he was showering me with…”
For me the lust component has always been strong. And then, as said above, the pure rush of that validation is so intense it can be overwhelming. Well, I’m interpreting- anyway; I can only speak for myself.
I feel terrible. I re-connected with someone I rejected some time ago, because I didn’t feel attracted to him at all on our first meeting. However, after faithfully reading BR blogs I thought that as he was so nice I should give it a second try. I hoped this would be a casual ‘let’s see’ meeting. But he went all out booking an amazing restaurant, insisted on paying and at the end of the evening when he dropped me home, he produced a big bouquet of flowers. I was mortified. Now I don’t know what to do. I still don’t feel attracted to him. We had a perfectly nice evening. There was no awkwardness. Of course I thanked him for dinner and the flowers, kissed him on the cheek and that was that. Thoughts on what to do next? I have been hurt so many times, I don’t wish to do the same to this nice man.
I’m praying the next time I feel chemistry I won’t repeat my patterns and all this studying what you are sharing will finally click. I’m ready to feel like this is working and altering who I experience chemistry with. I’m sick to death of my patterns.