Some of our strongest ties to even the flimsiest of relationships are based on what we experienced or even hoped for in the beginning. When we’re living in the past because the present has too many code red realities biting at us, we end up spending a great deal of our time trying to recapture the feelings we experienced at the beginning. Or we try to recapture the person we believed or assumed them to be. Sometimes we’re even trying to recapture what we thought was our best self in those moments. It’s for these very reasons that we may find it hard to recover from a relationship that didn’t even happen. We struggle to get over the loss of our hopes and expectations.
We like how we felt and acted at the beginning of the relationship, and we want to make that happen all of the time. Yes, even if the reality of the present doesn’t lend itself to this. This means that we can spend an overwhelmingly disproportionate amount of the entire relationship trying to turn back time. We’re trying to turn the minority of the relationship into a full-time gig. Of course, we lose track of time. When we took up this vocation, the good times were in a different context.
Let’s imagine that we’re saying that the first three months were “fabulous”. Maybe it was “almost too good to be true”, “everything we’d hoped for” and like “the long-awaited reward for all of [our] trauma”. In month four things go off the boil. By the end of that month, though, we forget that it’s a relatively new relationship. We forget that contextually, alarm bells should be ringing if the relationship has gone into a rapid decline or we feel as if the person we met has disappeared.
Instead, by focusing on the ‘beginning’, ‘good points’ and ‘good times’, we reason that the relationship was great for three-quarters of its duration. We might even, at this point, reason that contextually, this person’s three-out-of-four-month record is better than another of our relationships. We’re still focused on the idea that the beginning is the relationship and the happy ending.
If this continues on into month five, the ‘good’ still outweighs the not so good.
In month six, we reason that it’s half great, half not-so-great. We figure we’re capable of getting three good months out of them. Even though it’s not the beginning anymore, we reason that we should be able to get another ‘good run’. It’s a bit like when stars do those Las Vegas shows for however many nights for a few months; we’re now waiting for the ‘next run’.
Of course, we forget that three dodgy months at such a relatively early stage in the relationship is problematic. Sure, we might get another ‘good stint’. However, it would be fair to deduce that we could get another dodgy few months. We also forget that people unfold.
If six months in, a romantic partner is showing a low commitment and consistency stamina along with contradicting values, we’re going to be in for a hard slog. These are signs of incompatibility and emotional unavailability. These factors will only add to what is already a busy plate of two people trying to get to know each other and co-create a relationship.
Still, when it’s half and half, even if in terms of the bigger picture it’s a relatively short period of time for it to be this way, we’ll feel invested. We’ll look for a return on investment.
While we have some highlights, we basically haven’t been able to consistently recapture the beginning. We’ve gone from being in a situation where we could rationalise that it was mostly good to it being almost 67% not-so-good or even straight-up bad. We’ve then spent six months of a nine-month relationship fighting to recapture the past. This is all while struggling in the present and possibly denying, rationalising, and minimising so that we can keep chasing the past.
The more time that goes on, the more out of context the beginning looks.
I’ve heard from so many people who’ve stayed in relationships for years based on the first few days/weeks/months or the first year. Some are clearly waiting for a happy ending.
Films and fairy tales peddle this concept of falling for someone and battling adversities. Think commitment resistance, being treated like a hooker, being ignored, fighting an opponent, aliens, freak weather in a metropolis and other such puff. And then these adversities are resolved and the people live happily ever after around ninety minutes or so. The media and popular culture also peddle the myth of the ability to love someone based on a first impression. You know, gained via the eyes and initial feelings aka love at first sight aka the libido and lust version of Mystic Meg. No need to rub a crystal ball; just follow the gravitational pull of our pattern or even our libido.
We can’t squeeze all of the adversity into our own fairy tale or film. There’s no ‘quick fix’. Not only does it infuriate us when we can’t get instant results or take shortcuts, but the reality is that even if the beginning is brilliant, we can’t base an entire relationship and our desire to stay based solely or primarily on the beginning.
It means that the present isn’t satisfactory. We want to feel safe in betting on the potential, so we try to get reassurances that the beginning will happen again, letting us revise ‘the ending’. For this reason, when we won’t get to work in the present, that beginning we get so obsessed with is also the end, just not the one that we expected.
The first step to addressing issues within our relationships is getting into the present. This is where our attention is needed and also at its most valuable and productive. We can only really know what we’re in and what we can address by being willing to be conscious, aware, and present in our relationships. We have to be connected to ourselves right now.
The past is done so we cannot effect any great change there. Our time is now. When we’ll disregard the present, including our needs, expectations, desires, feelings and opinions, our reliance on our perception of the past to shape our current thinking and actions leads us to a great deal of pain. We’ll blame ourselves for why the beginning is different from the middle and the end. We’ll also burden ourselves with inappropriate responsibilities for trying to put things right. That is not even the beginning of the most appropriate use for our time, energy, efforts and emotions.
Ultimately, we can’t spend an entire relationship at the beginning just so that we don’t have to truly get to know a person and let them know us, or so that we don’t have to deal with reality and things being less than perfect. If we want mutual love, care, trust and respect, we’ll have to step into reality.
Your thoughts?
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Ian Anderson (of Jethro Tull) perhaps put it best:
You know I’d love to love you,
and above you there’s no other.
We’ll go walking out
while others shout of war’s disaster.
Oh, we won’t give in,
let’s go living in the past.
The problem is that it’s incredibly tempting to see those first few weeks or months as the true template of our relationship. We’ve strayed from that template, and so everything has gone to crap. We have to get that winning formula back! How can it be that we loved each other so much – or were so into each other – then, and no there’s just darkness and pain? One of the two must be an illusion – the present or the past – but which one?
That’s the trap so many of us find ourselves in. The solution, I think, is Natalie’s insight that our seeming perfection was based on ignorance – either willful or otherwise.
Even thinking about another serious relationship is exhausting. I am on romance hiatus and my cat James LOVES IT.
Screw love, let me take a nap instead. Ya know?
Karen,
I sure so do know and totally agree! This article was so me…
I so wanted the fairy tale ending and wanted the emotions he was faking at the very beginning that I totally discarded the red flags.
After investing so much time, I didn’t want to give up. But now, five months out of it, I can’t believe how blind I was. Now my eyes are wide open and I see what a liar, phony and despicable person he is. I’m still angry with myself for believing I could change him.
I can’t even imagine getting involved with anyone for a long time. Screw love is right Karen. I’ll focus on myself and my children right now for sure.
Wow, is this timely. I am in week 3 of the self esteem course and working so hard, I think my head may explode. I broke NC this weekend and responded to a stupid email. Which in hind sight was a really stupid thing to do. The great thing that happened was nothing. I got angry a little but no tears, no self recriminations nothing. It was so liberating. After 20 years in a marriage, it has been difficult to let go of the beginning. The person I married no longer exists. So for me to stay in the past and wax nostalgia is ridiculous. I am 51 and this is the first time in my life I have lived alone. This at times can be very difficult. I spend a lot of time writing and looking at my crappy relationship choices though out my whole life. I chose to move forward and discover who I am. I know that my ruminating and obsessing about the past is such a waste of mental energy. It has only been 9 months, so I try not to beat myself up to badly. I work daily on my self esteem which has taken such a beating. I sometimes find myself thinking about the past and do the couda, woulda, shouda. Yes, my ex husband left me for a Ghana romance scam, which at some points gives me fits of laughter. Other times, I have such a low feeling of self worth. That I just wasn’t good enough. I know this is utter garbage so I come back here to read posts over and over again. I am not responsible for what he did and how he mistreated me. I just work very hard every day to focus on me and the present. I am so thankful that I found the NC book first and then this cite. I am grateful that I now have some tools at my disposal to work on me and forget the past. It is over and there is not one damn thing I can do about any of the past. If onlys will just eat me alive if I let them. So what, I fell off the NC after 2 months and got burned for my trouble. Just another validation that NC is the only way to go. Lesson learned again. When he wrote I still love you and “you can never say no to me again”, I thought WTF? Okay, take all the narcissist, the emotionally unavailable and all your other crap and go away. I will NEVER be his fallback girl. I deserve better and I will start with me as he does not get to occupy my thoughts anymore cause he is crazy!
I can’t believe how accurately you described my last relationship! You’re advice is awesome and spot on as well.
I’m getting to the point where I am highly mistrustful of “fantastic” beginnings. I read something that our brain’s tendency to thin-splice, or pick out relevant features and create a whole with the pieces, tend to paint a favorable picture of a narcissist. That somehow their experience has taught them that the best way to fool us is to blind us with all their goodness in the beginning and then ride that wave for as long as they can. I am therefore looking for a much less flashy individual who does not give me that intoxicating mixture of anxiety, excitement and desperation. I am on a hiatus to teach myself the patience it takes to experience a low and slow relationship without freaking the F* out because I’m uncomfortable and can’t feel in control of the situation.
I “go home” to my father by finding men that give me a false sense of security by controlling me, thus absolving me of the responsibility to take care of myself. In that rosy first few months, it’s like “Yay! I get to dump my life onto someone else and just play the sexy kitten role and not have to think or judge or set boundaries or feel guilty or responsible or think about the future! This is so fun!” It is definitely a drug, an escape, an addictive ride, that, like a high, comes crashing down and leaves you looking for your next hit.
I hear you Marian, I’m still drawn by charm and charisma but know to treat these qualities with suspicion.
The problem for me is that it’s often subtle, like blatant smoothness/ flashiness doesn’t draw me in, but I do meet these types who seem to be very emotionally literate, comfortable to show their insecure side and vulnerabilities, not amazingly handsome, well-dressed and coiffured etc., so they seem like a credible and convincing match, but then they still have a kind of magnetism that they can work people with, can sweep women off their feet and are altogether not good news. It’s like I know if they’ve got me so easily, I can’t be the only one. Then I wise up and look back and wonder what was I thinking?!
Good luck with the hiatus. Once you know what it’s like to lose control and then come crashing down, I don’t think it’s likely you’ll go on that artificial ride again so fast, let’s hope!
happy b-you just described my exact problem, I have never been able to articulate it so well but I have time and time again fallen for the early ‘charms’ of these un conventionally charming types-sensitive, unflashy etc…I am trying to get over a very very painful 3 year relationship with somebody I still feel very much in love with but have realized is a rather hurtful and exacerbating person. He was charming in a very understated way as you described….he was even slightly self deprecating, able to poke fun at himself and admit to vulnerabilities. When we first met I fell hard for the offbeat magnetism and what I perceived as strikingly rare gentleness and “emotional literacy” . This quiet sensitive guy turned cold, sour and became downright cruel at times-withdrawing and cold shouldering me for daring to voice needs or wants of my own and raging hateful outbursts followed by more cold shouldering when I wasn’t feeling sexually outgoing or in the mood for whatever reason. It is devastating when I look back and have to realize the gentle, emotional person I believed I was falling for, moving in with and starting a future with was probably never real-in the last weeks and months living together he was downright terrifying-no humility or empathy for me at all, even when I was going through the loss of my dad to cancer. I’m afraid now maybe some narcissists are simply smart enough to paint an understated mask rather than a glaringly obvious one. =(
Sankofa – the need to reflect on the past to build a successful future.
Let’s reflect on the past only. No need to act on it. As always, good post.
Natalie, it’s truly amazing how you always seem to write the entry I need to read at exactly the right time. I reconnected recently with my AC after 2.5 months of no contact, and within days, it was the same old story. We cut things off again recently, shortly after our anniversary. Naturally, I’ve been reminiscing about the beginning of our relationship, when everything was so perfect, and wishing so desperately that we could return to that time. I’ve been clinging to the past instead of living in the present. This entry was exactly what I needed to read. Thank you.
Beth,
It may help to stop thinking of him as “my AC”. Distance yourself from him in your mind. It’s similar to reminiscing. It really is over, is it not? So he’s no longer “my” anything. As we think, so we are. Hope you can relate to what I’ve said. Wishing you the best in letting it go.
I am 8 days re-NC (after blowing it last week after 45 days NC) and I was tempted to send my ex a little text, but decided to go to this site instead (yay me!). So glad I did. Thanks for the lesson, Nat, it is so true. With my ex MM AC things were nice for 3 or 4 months, then I realized a few things about our relationship: even though he and spouse were separated, and he SAID he was getting divorced, he didn’t take any ACTION toward it. I also noticed that he drank. A lot. To the point of passing out and sleeping on my front porch. He had 3 or 4 DUIs. I realized that he was capable of being very mean, sarcastic, snotty, and verbally abusive. He would disappear for a few days, go on a drinking and gambling binge, then come home and blame me for everything. After the first 3 wonderful months came about 2.5 years of hell. I can’t tell you how many buckets of tears I cried. How many pills I had to pop when the panic attacks hit me. How I put my faith in a future “divorce” that was supposed to make everything perfect. I rationalized that his cruelty was my fault, a result of my “asking” him to hurry the hell up and get divorced. Truth is, those blissful days were never gonna come back. I broke up with him in October. Talked a little bit at Christmas time. Did not speak again until last week, when I broke down and spent two days with him “just to see” how I felt. Well, I felt miserable. So get the fu– out of my life, MM AC! I deserve better than you can possibly deliver and I am learning more about myself and moving forward in so many ways. Thanks for the perfect lesson, Nat. I’m going to eat a healthy dinner and go for a nice refreshing walk, and when I come home I am going to read a good book. I no longer feel the need to contact him. You all are my 12 step program. I seriously could not get through this without your help. Hugs, Oregon Girl.
Oregon girl,
Reading about your relationship is like reading mine to a T! I spent the majority of the relationship “waiting” for him to finally get divorced. (Of course to this day he still isn’t) He made me believe that I was pressuring him, being annoying and suffocating, all because I wanted to be in a proper relationship with someone who wasn’t married! The beginning was wonderful of course, filled with so much future faking that I don’t know how I was THAT blind. Thanks to Natalie and this site, I woke up! Good luck….you definitely deserve better!
Great Post!
I had a similar relationship as Susanna & Oregon…He was separated when we met. Supposedly getting divorced. The first year was AMAZING, second & third year was absolutely miserable. I tried relentlessly to get that person back I met in the beginning. It never happened.
I’ve been 6Months of strict no contact. (It is so important to cut contact with these people)
I feel soooooo much better. Since I removed that negativity out of my life, and broke some bad patterns, learned to take care of myself new and amazing opportunities come my way all of the time. It really feels great.
I’ll bet all my money he is still “separated” and on to the next fall back girl. Better her than me.
I am moving on HAPPILY and I’m pretty sure he is still stuck back in time believing his delusions.
This site/Natalie is amazing and got me through the real hard times in the beginning stages of NC.
Best!
Sandybeach
SandyBeach,
You go girl! I couldn’t be happier for you. We can waste so much time, even years for some, betting on potential. Glad you wised up.
Thanks, Tinkerbell!
Hi Karen,
I agree- I am exhausted at the idea of another relationship. There is always a honeymoon period but it does transition to something more mature. It’s not always fun but if it’s right it has deeper meaning and feels safe.
My mistake was being with a guy chasing drama & only wanting the honeymoon. That’s part of what the fights were about at the end and then he got abusive in the first 6 months and then I kept looking for that guy he was at the beginning & spent the next year trying to find him. When you let things go on for far to long it hurts more.
Just imagine the beginning, middle and the end of a relationship that started with you, alone. I experience what I deemed as love with a person who expressed interest, then shied away. living with the idea of what I imagined him to be, which was the perfect person for me. With no evidence, beside the 2 dates we went on.
This was exhausting, It was like a experiencing, a Past that had no beginning. Well not a enough of a beginning to feel so strongly for a stranger.He basically chose not to make him self accessible or reveal who he really was. It sounds a little confusing but this was someone I met in my youth. I greatly appreciate and can identify with this article.
I am so ready to embrace my future.
I have Cher bawling in my head “If I could turn back time!!”.
Sometimes if you really think carefully about what was going on in those early honeymoon days, you realise that actually, they weren’t that great either. There was an underlying unease and anxiety and the red flags were present, and visible, if one was looking closely. It’s possible to put a relationship, or a time in a relationship, on a pedestal, as much as a person. If you can take it off that pedestal it’s helpful to dispel the nostalgia and yearning that keeps you hanging around hoping for the return of the golden times.
Mymble,
“if you really think carefully about what was going on in those early honeymoon days, you realise that actually, they weren’t that great either”
I hear many women say they chose to ignore the early red flags… I have too
The beginning of my relationship with my AC/EUM was heaven. He was thoughtful, caring, showered me with gifts, came to my workplace every day at lunch time just to ‘see me’ . You get the picture. If ever I was out shopping or with friends or anywhere really, he would offer to come and collect me (as I didnt have a car at the time) and never let me down. In my life, I had never, ever been treated this way before and felt on top of the world. He would regularly compliment me and make me feel good.
If I am honest though, (and its only if Im being REALLY honest with myself) there were red flags all over the place which I chose to ignore, just to keep feeling this ‘good’ feeling that he was offering. His temper, his small lies which then turned into massive lies, his blowing hot and cold about 4 or 5 months in. For those of you following my other posts you’ll know that at this time, OUR beginning/building of a relationship he was ALSO involved with his ex for over year(which i didnt find out until 18 months together) So I know that what I struggle with what was real and what wasn’t. I mean sure, he did all these things/ said all these things…. but he was also still buying things for her, telling her he still loved her, etc.(wasnt sleeping with her) SO how much of it was really for me? I refuse to believe he was just saying those things. I think he did care and did think he loved me, but he couldnt let her go and he didnt want to lose me so his behaviour was all over the place.
Eventually he did stop contact with her, and I took him back and thought that THIS would be OUR fresh start. We were 18 months in, had a new house, and I though ‘ok, this is it now’ but its only gone from bad to worse. In this present moment, today, we have been together nearly 4 years and its just been a massive rollercoaster. He never wants to do anything, I cant remember the last time he gave me a compliment or sadly, the last time he walked into a room and just came and gave me a kiss for no reason. During a recent argument he actully sai that he ‘deliberatly withholds showing me affection because all I do is go on about it and therefore hes proving a point’
During the same argument he kept saying things like ‘you love yourself’ and ‘all you care about is yourself’ when I asked him what he meant he made reference to a recent ‘selfie’ I had taken and put as my profile pic on FB. (I had just had my make up professionaly done, for a special event and thought it looked nice so I took a picture of myself) for that I was riduclued and insulted. Why?
As we were on the subject of FB I asked him why he had ignored my friend request for the last 6 weeks (as we were supposed to be tying again in our relationship and moving forward) and why, had he became friends (for the second time) with a woman who he had previously ‘hit on’ behind my back.. he went MENTAL saying i was a psycho for checking out his friends list. He then immediately blocked me altogther from FB!
What happened to this man from the beginning. The proper beginning or even the fresh start beginning. If I walk away, go NC etc he declares his undying love but when Im sitting right next to him he happily withholds affection out of badness. I just dont understand. WHY?!
Deflatedlady,
Don´t bother about the WHY. The reason behind your question is that perhaps, if you know Why, then you can find the formula to reverse things – talk him out of his nonsense, for example. The thing is, IT DOESN´T WORK. There is no way you can change his behaviour, feelings, character, because that is just who he is. Believe me, I´ve been there.
Just try to concentrate on yourself and observe your own thought-patterns. Instead of analysing him, analyse yourself – ask your self WHY on earth you would want to hang around someone who doesn´t treat you well. That´s the only way to move forward.
Lilia, yep, a player. salvage the remainder of your life! you only get one
sorry. DeflatedLady, I was responding to
Hi DeflatedLady,
WHY?!
Why deflated lady are you still with this person? That is the only “Why” you should be extremely concerned about right now.
I don’t wish to come across as harsh but I really have no choice. I think you have already posted about this particular AC, who shockingly, you are still with! Several BR-readers offered you their professional advice. They took their time to respond to you thinking that it may help you finally get rid of this LOSER.
I understand that it may take some time and courage to escape from these toxic yet addictive AC scenarios, but by posting the SAME issues after reading this website including all the support received by your fellow BR-readers, it makes it hard to take you seriously.
Common deflatedlady, let this website actually empower you to take some real action! Everyone is here to help you but it will be alot easier once you take the first steps towards NC.
Stop living under the same roof as this guy!
With love, RP
Well said!
RP. If only doing what we know is right were that easy. Sometimes people are on the road to success, but I dont think berating them for their ‘inaction’ is helpful. I realise you may feel frustrated, but change is not always simple or easy.
Hi Rachel,
I can totally relate/understand the painful process DeflatedLady is faced with right now. It is difficult not to be disgusted by the AC she described in her posts. I simply wanted to jolt her a bit to get out of that situation SUBITO. Only then, is any possibilty of emotional recovery feasible. In my other posts I shared my personal experiences. A few years ago I found myself in a similar situation as many BR readers including DeflatedLady. My friends/family did not stop loving and caring for me but my constant “complaining followed by inaction cycle” did eventually cross their boundaries. Especially for those who loved me most because it was clearly painful for them to watch me suffer for some AC. I think me watching them suffer and lose hope in me woke me up to reality. In that moment I realised which people in my life were most important to hold on to.
I guess the nature of this forum is somewhat different because we are choosing to listen to and offer advice to people we have most likely never met. However, my opinion is one of many and I think DeflatedLady, after reading all comments, is able to come to her own conclusions as to what course of action to take.
Hi DeflatedLady, this sounds so sad. Seems like the two of you have lot of miscommunication, resentment and spite. I know, the BR answer is “cut and leave, apply NC”. You sound like you haven’t been able to do so. I am sure in his mind he has his “reasons”. This ‘deliberately withholds showing me affection because all I do is go on about it and therefore hes proving a point’ says it all, he feels insecure and you are in some vicious cycle going nowhere. Also it sounds like he may be just depressed and you can’t really help him. If you don’t have the strength to just leave, perhaps you can offer him to go to relationship counseling,at least you’ll feel you’ve done everything you could to save the relationship ( I know, the point of this article is to show there is no reason saving relationship investment with diminishing returns). You have to act in any case and do something about it. Having a household together gives you both comfort and leaving means starting from scratch, lowering standards of living,etc. But I think that if the man really wanted you, he would be willing to work on things. Some people prefer to have nothing than to be in relationship like this. Others think ‘something is better then nothing’
Things may not change if there is this comfortable life you both are not really satisfied with but fear of being alone feels worse then what you have now. My parents are like this, but they are 75!!! I am sorry you are going through this. Hope you find some strength to challenge the situation and make it better for yourself.
On the second thought, I think I have to agree with the others, so I take ‘relationship counseling’ back. You need to get yourself out of it, tighten the belt and maybe go live with a roommate if you can’t afford your own place and also to have some company initially. Do something!
M,
C’mon! She needs to have no NC with this guy. All I need to mention, is the first 18 months of deception. This should be enough to stay away from this lying, passive aggressive, cheating asshole.
Deflated Lady,
It’s quite painful reading about what you are going through. Different circumstances, but I remember how it felt to be treated so badly. I remember not wanting to believe it and kept hanging on and I’m sure it would still be continuing if I’d let it. Each day that you stay is another day of your life wasted on someone who does not care enough about you, withholds affection, blocks you on FB (I agree with Sandy he doesn’t want you to see what he’s up to), and as for the situation with his ex, other commentators have said it all. I understand how difficult it is because I wanted the fairy tale ending too and it took me a long time before I finally realised it just wasn’t going to happen. I’m trying to think of something that might help. If I could give you some advice it would be to find a quiet space, re-read all of your posts and all of the responses, including the tough love ones. Don’t let him treat you like this DL, you deserve better don’t you? Hugs, xxx.
DeflatedLady,
I know what it feels like to try to reason with someone who is treating you badly. The thing is, it’s nothing you have done and nothing you can fix. The honeymoon phase you had years ago was just that – it wasn’t real, he was putting on a show to reel you in. Telling you that he refuses to show you affection because you have told him that you want him to? That’s just spiteful.
The longer we stay with people like this, the worse it gets. It’s a common pattern for these guys to suddenly clean up their act and profess their love once you leave. You have already seen firsthand that it does not last. Another pattern: the longer you stick with him, the worse he will treat you, because he thinks you’ll put up with it. Show him that you won’t.
The only ‘why’ you need to figure out is WHY you put up with it. RUN! It doesn’t matter why the resistance and maltreatment. What matters is your psyche, save yourself!
He seriously sounds like a creep to me. I’d stay the hell away from him. What a manipulative jerk. You should look at the site called “Are you dating a loser?” and you will see that that is what he is. Good riddance! Sistah, you deserve so much better!!
Oh DeflatedLady, this guy sounds like he is all over the place.
I think you are just kidding yourself that is going to turn into the guy you want him to be. He has shown no respect to you by keeping in touch with his ex, buying her stuff and telling he loves her.
You need to seriously consider if you A) want to put up with his BS any longer, continue to be unhappy and ruin your chances at finding a fulfilling relationship or B) leave him, no ultimatums, no nothing, just a plain, ‘this isn’t for me’ and leave.
Then you can start to heal and actually work out what you want from a relationship with a decent man.
Hope this has helped, yes, it may have been a bit harsh, but seeing what you have put up with just made me angry.
Thanks Lilia & Eustace for your comments, you are both right – Why am I still there? I know I have my own issues to resolve and work out, and I am getting better. (Yes, really!) But the florence nightingale within me just wants to fix it and have the fairytale!
RP, Im sorry that I seem to have somewhat agitated you by posting my issues / feelings/ problems on here. I didnt realise that a person could only comment on how their feeling just on one or two posts. I am greatful to ALL of the people who have taken their time to reply to me – and I think I have taken the time to reply back to them and thank them for that.
I know that I need to leave and go NC and start looking at myself and working on myself and everything else. Believe me I know this. But its just not easy. Some people can do it and others struggle. I am sorry that my struggling offends you!
If you were struggling to let go and maintain NC then I can totally understand. However, it seems that you are still struggling to figure him out and find a way to make the “relationship” work, despite all the valuable advice given.
Of course I am not offended, I am not playing with you like AC! It is just frustrating to see women put up with this kind of crap. I find his treatment of you offensive, but sadly, unless you kick his ars to the curb and stop picking up the pieces for some crumbs, he will continue to mistreat and humiliate you.
It saddens me because I have been through this myself and it makes me angry to see ACs get away with such shady behaviour.
Valuable people in my life started to lose patience and respect. They could no longer tolerate my inaction. This is when I finally changed and did NC for real. It is the best thing that ever happened to me.
I really hope you give it your best shot.
Deflated,
The comments were meant to help you. You know that this will go nowhere, but you continue to stay – he’s even blocked you from social media.
You can choose the excuse as a ‘Florence,’ or you can make the difficult decision to address your own issues and change.
Please do not make yourself the victim when people offer well-meaning advice, I know it’s not comfortable, but it’s accurate. This site is about support and guidance, and when we see a fellow poster upset about mistreatment, yet continues to engage, we’re going to respond accordingly.
Your happiness is up to you, you can continue with this waste of time, or improve your life!
Deflated Lady,
I so agree with RP and Allison, you have posted, we have replied and tried our best to help but you keep on lathering, rinsing and repeating.
As RP said I too had friends and family who started to lose patience with me always going back, trying to sort things out, when they knew and I knew it was never going to get any better and in fact was just getting worse.
He’s blocked you on Face Book because he doesn’t want you to see what he is up to..don’t you get that?! He’s starting to get more abusive and yet still you stay…you have to ask yourself why? Why do you think he is worth all this? All that seems to be left in your relationship is drama…you KNOW it shouldn’t be like this but still you seem to just try to hang in there.
We’ve all given you advice and at the end of the day it is your choice but as Allison said please stop playing the victim because we are telling it like it is and you don’t want to hear it, yes it is extremely hard to make that final decision but good grief anything is better then letting somebody treat you like utter crap.
DeflatedLady, I might take a different tact on this one. What would you say to a sister or good friend in a relationship similar to the one you are in? What kind of advice would you offer? Would you tell her to get out of the emotionally abusive relationship, and provide her with the support to do so? As fellow BR readers, we are doing exactly this. We are suggesting the best thing for you to do is leave and go NC. In your heart of hearts you know this. It is difficult, absolutely, and no-one is denying that. But your support net is here. Please imagine yourself as that sister or friend. You wouldn’t want her to go through it. We don’t want you to either. Big hugs. I hope you can do this. Your life is short, and precious. He is not worth the space in it. You deserve to be happy.
Natalie, once again you’ve absolutely nailed it! For years I endured terrible relationships, hoping that the beginning would re-appear when, if I’d had healthy self-esteem, I’d have let the guy go. I now have healthy self-esteem and when I see that things are not going to work out, I let him go so that he can go and work out his issues. Thanks for such an insightful piece. Big love to you. <3
Hi Natalie,
I thank God for bringing you, the BR site, and Mr. unavailable and the fall back girl book to me.
I owe you a debt of gratitude because without this information I would still be chasing after an elusive dream that would never come true.
Your book was my EU man owners manual. I tried for so long to find a label that I could tack on his head that could make sense of it all.
But after having waded through tons of information I know he’s just “unavailable” as you have said.
I tried for 2 years to recapture the first 3 months of the relationship where he idolized me.
Thanks to you Natalie my feet are firmly planted in the NOW.
It’s been 1 year and 7 months NC and yet I still have those days that I want to reach out and try one more time to make contact. Instead I come back to this site and start reading and that desire vanishes just like he did so long ago.
For those of you that are just finding this site, hang in there, keep reading and stay strong. Don’t go back and try to recapture something that was never there to begin with.
Stay in the present!
Deflated Lady,
The answer to your relationship problems are evident in your post…There is no joy in your relationship.
There are a million ways to be happy, but you (and many, many people, including myself) act as though there is only one way…. It took me a long time to break from this way of thinking…Of course, it’s a life-long process.
Being single is great! Here are some of the perks:
1) You can go out and enjoy a meal alone. Order a ton of food and eat it all without someone reaching over to “share” some.
2) Discover new parts of your city. Go on night walks and people watch.
3) Make new friends. There are many many single people out there looking for friends, too.
4) Keep the house messy. Or it super clean. Who cares? You’re the queen of your universe.
5) Create your ideal home.
6) Watch horrible television.
7) Feel guilty about watching horrible television and read Edith Wharton novels until 2 am.
8) Read BR
9) Do absolutely nothing. It’s amazing, especially when you can do it without obsessing about some stupid guy.
There are so many other good things. But you have to want them for yourself! It comes from you, not from a guy, not from a website. You have to find your own way. Life is precious! Don’t waste it chasing someone who doesn’t appreciate you.
He’s just a person.
Nat Attack, I’m a fan of Edith Wharton and sometimes at 2am too!
lizzp-Cool. I enjoy the sheer terror of “The House of Mirth.” It’s scary and I love it.
Noquay and EllyB, yep, I agree. I’ve always been independent, but during my asshole phase, I tended to focus on everything that I hated in life, i.e. the asshole. And lately I’ve been trying to focus on positive things and make a very concerted effort not to ruminate about the past. So I make a lot of lists (in my mind and journal). They’re fun.
Ladies,
I agree. Living alone definitely has more perks than living with a man. You NEVER have to try to appear better than you really are. I’m not talking about personality, character, beliefs and opinions. I mean things like your neatness, or lack of, your large appetite, or strange eating habits, your showering every single night before bed or in the morning without exception. Basically, you do what you want when you feel like it, no matter what it is. I think the problem of feeling lonely is far more easy to remedy than an unnatural, stifling relationship in which you have to make too many sacrifices and compromises in order to get along. No thanks.
Nat Attack:
I like your approach. Now that I have finally dumped my ex-MM AC, I am free to focus on my own happiness and feeding my spirit. I started out by identifying my values or “visions” and thinking of activities to support them. For example: Adventure/I volunteer for the Coast Guard. Nature/I am planting a garden Creativity/I have been sewing lately. Etc. my list goes on. These things make me happy whether or not I have a man in my life. Time to get out there and enter into creation!
Hheheheheh
I read this in an advert kind of voice
But, it’d be funny if it wasn’t so spot on. These are normal things we ought to do anyway 🙂
I’ll add things to do by self
Read, write, swim, run, eat icecream with pan cakes, or not.
Go for shisha and dinner alone. I do once every other month. Just for the sake of it.
Hell, sleep past 10 am on a weekend.
Or jog at 5am!
Whatever – travel. Go to that museum
Go look at the charity shops, walk along the water front.
Knit (my fave! along with writing)
But, most of all, to get to do all of the things you like / love about life and yourself, get away from toxicity.
All the best!
Tee Tee – I absolutely LOVED your list! They are all things I do except the knitting. I’d love to do this but can’t. Op-shopping is one of my favourite pastimes, along with writing and reading and drinking tea and coffee and walking my dog (at whatever time I want). I also loved your final sentence – get away from toxicity. So true. Our lives are too precious to have poison streaking through them!
I’m working on it, made some mistakes this year dating wise.
But, in general i try and do what’s on my list when i have time or when i start over analysing past scenarios that really weren’t up to much.
Knitting is calming for me. How could i forget tea! As a londoner tea (mostly green, peppermint or raw lemon and ginger)is a favourite past time. If at home while knitting of course haha.
I wish i had a cat, but landlord rules doesn’t allow animals.
Personally I like taking crap photos. In my head I’m Ansell Adams, taking fabulous, inspiring social commentary pictures. In real life I’m…just not. I don’t even care, I do it anyways, it makes me happy and it’s just for me. Good list!
Flcc crap shots? Cool, i people watch at times, but i have a stern stare at times so i get worried people might think i’m giving them a mean face lol. Have never heard or Adams – off to google!
Nat attack
What you describe sounds like how a healthy autonomous person should do anyway. I did all of these things (except the messy house and TV parts) while I was married.
Noquay: I had the same thoughts, even if I was never married.
I lived in the past with my last boyfriend – kept thinking he would eventually get back to the dynamic beginning of our relationship and stop changing his mind and dragging me back and forth. I did it long enough to realize how stupid it was and I swore to never do it again…I think you see where this is going. My current boyfriend treats me well and is great, but is just not great for me. But, I was head-over-heels, no-question-about-it-he-is-the-one at the beginning (yes, about 3 months) and I can’t get past how I could be so wrong. Now the shoe’s on the other foot and I keep hoping I’ll be the one to get back to that dynamic beginning, but I won’t. Time is ticking by…
I experienced this for three years…trying to resurrect the guy I met in the beginning who effectively barged into my life with persistence, compliments, charm, wit, humor, promises, love, mapped out a future together, marriage, kids, “whatever you want, whatever you want to do, I’m in” he’d say. He had been waiting to find me his whole life and yes, that was music to my ears.
I think the thing that really reeled me in was that he would tell me how smart, amazing, hard-working, talented, beautiful etc I was and that he wanted to be there to support ME and help me reach my dreams and goals and how much he believed in me and thaT I deserved it and he wanted to be that person for me. He recognized that I was doing it all on my own, and had been for a while. I am very independent and this guy came along and boom, i got some serious and needed VALIDATION…he made me feel really great about myself, my abilities, my talents etc and that felt so good to be loved and recognized and to think that maybe it would be ok to have someone take care of me, just a little. At the time, I really needed to hear that from somebody and I so desperately wanted to believe all those things about myself. Is that so wrong? I’d really never had a man recognize and be so supportive and verbal and that enthusiastic about who I am as a person before and what I have to offer.
Sounds too good to be true? I really didn’t think so at the time, honestly, but I was definitely skeptical and cautious and would not move as fast as he was trying to push me to move (he was barely divorced 2nd time). And I said so. I needed the test of time to really see. Like where’s the fire? what’s SO urgent about moving SO fast (in terms of agreeing to get married, live together after a few months.)
It didn’t take long to see that he was NOT delivering on all or ANY of those promises from the beginning, but, man, I hung on like crazy trying to make it all come true. When it came to my needs, my goals it turned out that he was always “too busy” for me, but never too busy when he needed to lean on me and that, my friends, was A LOT, often and exhausting. And the relationship was most definitely on his terms at all times unless I begged and pleaded for his attention(how pathetic)
I feel like such a chump for hanging around, waiting for him for that long, for what I reduced myself to. I truly believe that he knew he was NO match for me. I called him on his bullsh#t regularly, yet as Nat says…I didn’t opt out when I should have long ago, partly because when I would get to that point, that guy from the beginning would make these fleeting re-appearnces just to give me enough to hold onto and then he’d continue to do whatever the eff he wanted
What stings most is that after I said, get out of my life… he found someone right away, fell in love on the spot (like with me),moved her in, planning to get married, kids etc which means that guy from the beginning that I was trying to get to come back…is back, only he’s with someone else and yes, it may not last with her, but I’m left feeling like I wasted a whole lotta time on a whole lotta bullshite and someone else waltzed right in and moved super fast forward with all those plans and promises that never happened with me. So I can’t say to myself, ‘see, he was never going to deliver on x,y,z’, because he is delivering on those things…with someone else. Ouch.
I know things happen when they do BUT God, I wish I had found BR in the beginning or during that relationship when I would spend tons of time online trying to figure this guy out who left me in a constant state of confusion. I feel like I could’ve saved myself so much time and avoided all this horrendous PAIN that I am STILL enduring, but I do have faith and confidence that I have made progress and that, albeit slowly, I am moving on with MY life.
Unlike, can I share a phrase my friends and family have been saying to me these past for month?
You dodged a bullet.
Had any of his promises can to fruition – marriage, living together – there is a strong possibility you’d have been utterly miserable.
Glad to hear you are moving on with your life.
Yesterday the thought struck me this is perhaps one of the most important times in my life. Despite the pain, the feeling of loss and anger I’m learning something.
These experiences can be teaching moments if we let them.
Unlike,
If you had also been willing to rush in, he would have moved in with you and married you just as he is with this woman. He clearly has a pattern, and after the honeymoon period ends with this woman, she will be subjected to the same behaviour that you were.
As Mike said, you dodged a bullet. I also wish I had moved on from an AC a lot sooner, but being angry at yourself just keeps you tied up in the situation longer. You are human. You will make mistakes, but this is also how we learn.
“So I can’t say to myself, ‘see, he was never going to deliver on x,y,z’, because he is delivering on those things…with someone else. Ouch.”
Unlike, I can totally relate to this. In my case, I give myself enough time to mourn the loss. Loss more in the sense of hope for love and a steady relationship. But I see it now as: me not willing to bend like a pretzel to cater to his insecurities. I read quite a bit about narcistic personality disorder. I see now, that he needs and uses people to fill his inner void. Well, it wasn’t me! Good for me!!
AND I did learn through this experience. I do not accept disrespectful behaviour in private and business relationships. And by “firing” certain people, I already made space for healthy connections. So in a way I am much better of than somebody who cannot be alone and needs to lie and charm somebody into “love”.
Unlike – I am in a similar situation. You should read what Mike from Oztralia wrote to me below. My ex is also moving really fast with someone who isn’t even divorced yet. I found out they are moving in together soon…He also would say ‘when we get married…’, we talked about kids etc. He was my ‘friend’ for 2 years before we started dating. I thought with that foundation it would work out…but he’s broken. He’s divorced and it damaged him big time.
Something that stuck out to me is that your guy was fresh out of his 2nd divorce … that says it all there. He isn’t dealing with himself or his issues and just rushing into something else to mask all his emotions. That is exactly what my ex and his gf are doing. I’ve never understood how someone can rush into another relationship after a long term relationship or marriage. They will just continually rebound and compound all emotions and eventually just be alone and sad.
My friends have also been continually telling me that I dodged a bullet and our probably frustrated that I don’t fully see what they see…but I am getting there. It hurts me to think that he is moving in with someone so fast….I know it has no reflection on me obviously but it still hurts but also reminds me that he does not think things through and only lives in the moment. A woman that can rush just as fast as our EUM’s also has issues…our ex’s have just found someone on their level. And eventually it will all explode. Hang in there and focus on yourself…I know its hard but we will be better for dealing with our feelings head on and will be happier in the end then they ever will be.
Yet again, so dead on for me.
I spent 8 months crushing at particular guy, followed by 3 months in a relationship with him, and finally followed by 6 months (and still counting) grieving over the “loss” of him.
In all that time…there was only about a *week* in which I felt happy when it came to him. A week. That’s it.
Things have been much better recently, but I still find myself (more often than I’d like to admit) dutifully waiting for him to come back through the door I closed on him, changed into the man I wanted/hoped/projected him to be.
I’m trying to work on my self esteem (since I believe that it is directly correlated to how easily I am deterred from remaining in the present) and be in the present as Natalie wrote here; but, some days (like today), it can be difficult. Props to this latest blog post for helping me get my head back in the moment. 🙂
Karm, I could have written your post. I was only in a relationship for a short period of time with the EUM too, although it has taken me far longer in grieving it. One lovely poster (Tulipa) gave me a wonderful quote that I’d like to share with you on this point: “No person has the right to condemn you on how you repair your heart or how long you choose to grieve because no one knows how much you’re hurting. Recovering takes time, and everyone heals at her or his own pace.” And yes, I am foolishly still dutifully waiting too. It’s Nat and BR comments which also get my head out of the sand and back in the moment 🙂 Best wishes.
M, RP, Allison & Nat attack.
Thanks for responding , and I apologise if I’m coming across as a ‘victim’. That is not my intention, at all. It really, helps me to hear that he IS and AC because sometimes you feel like you’re the crazy one, and he’s not that bad really etc… So when I come here and vent it’s because I’m looking for the validation I guess. I feel the need to tell the story because I almost don’t believe it myself, if that makes any sense?!
After I got home from work today I made a decision. I took the rest of my things, left his key on the counter and left. I’ve blocked email, phone & text and every other line of communication I could think of. I don’t know his number off by heart and I didn’t write it down. I just deleted it and all messages . I know this is for the best and again, thanks for responding. Whether this time or on my previous posts. We’re all on here for a reason, right? So I hope you are all healing / progressing/ focusing on you as best you can. I know that I will get there too.
Bravo.
If you fall of the wagon and break NC, don’t beat yourself up.
It is hard to pull your self away from abusive or toxic relationships.
Trust your own intuitions, you don’t anybody to validate what you feel.
One day at a time.
Typo correction: “Trust your own intuitions, you don’t need anybody to validate what you feel.”
Confession, having dyslexia means I’ll frequently make errors. I’m sure what I say makes sense 😀
It’s ok, we read dyslexia and typo (both grammar and spelling) here.
Deflated Lady,
I am so pleased to hear this, please, please look after yourself, put yourself first and believe that you truly deserve better.
Big hugs.
Deflated,
Good for you!!!!!!!!!!!!! NC will help you move on from this mess.
Time to take the focus off him, and put it on you. Do some self-reflection to understand what kept you in this place, it will also help you grow and leave his memory behind.
Remember, you can only change you!
Deflated Lady,
Good luck and you don’t have to apologize for your feelings. They are what they are, and there is a beauty and power to expressing your experience, even if you know it’s time to change and move on. We have all had similar experiences, or we would not be here sharing on this website. We have all been stuck; we have all been afraid to move on. You did something incredibly brave today. Hope you’re proud. =)
I really wish you all the best!
Deflated Lady: I think you should change your name to Braveheart Lady. Yay for courage and trust and the leap into joy!!
There were a minimum of 5 other people in what I thought was a relationship. Boy, was I living in la-la land. I KNEW, but kept minimizing, due to the toxic addiction and idealization of what maybe could be? Even when my most excellent therapist said shut it down; he’s a Narc and cheater, it still took me months to face the reality and go NC. It’s been 9 months and shocks me when he hoovers with a lazy text. Really? He must be bored, supply is low or in jeopardy. I don’t need the reminders of how dumb he thought I was. I hope my lack of response clears that up and he goes away!
Ha..I think we dated the same man. I’m not sure how many others he had going at the same time, and still does, but I too had toxic addiction issues with him. I also get the lazy text timed I’m sure when no one is paying him attention, or he just needs to see if I’ll respond which means he’s still got me hooked so he can ignore me for another 3 weeks while he works on other supply. Amazing. Most amazing that I let him get away with it.
Block his sorry ass! So easy to do. Just go to your phone company online and you can enter his number. No more calls, no more texts. Pure peace of mind!
I used to believe in love at first sight (aka the libido and lust version of Mystic Meg) and basically if I wasn’t getting that initial jolt when I first met someone I wasn’t interested.
Being honest with myself (finally) its been a long term pattern with the guys I’ve always gone out with. Sometimes its worked out, a couple of long term boyfriends and my ex husband, and the rest … the inevitable when the lust started fading after 3-4 months and I couldn’t work out why.
It’s taken years for me to realise I was just chasing a feeling and watching Hollywood rom-com’s make me laugh now.
Sigh! I’m never going to be the same now, I’ve changed, I’ve been BR’d.
Thanks again Nat for this wonderful article.
I imagine most of your readership is women, however men need this advice just as much.
I applaud BR for helping cultivate emotional and relationship literacy.
Truly, finding BR has been a godsend. It has made all the difference for my healing and recovery.
I was with my wife for 13 years, more than half of them married. We share a child, but I know in retrospect that so many of those years were wasted trying to get back to the initial honeymoon period. Being a fixer I tried everything; changing my self, dragging us to counselling; talking and more talking; putting up with emotional and verbal abuse.
I ended the marriage. In the weeks that followed people who’d known me for years said I changed almost overnight. I was as different man they said. I stood taller. I looked healthier, happier. I had my dignity back. I was no longer hunched over in emotional and physical pain from the stress of a bad marriage.
The end of the marriage allowed me to experience another relationship, which some of you may know ended about three months ago. There were some wonderful times but it had run it’s course. I have a child, and in the end she worked it wasn’t the life for her. Her words to me “I don’t have the resilience of other women. You deserve better…”
More true words have never been spoken 😉
I’m know NC with the ex-GF(I admit in the first month I broke the rule two or three times). There are times when I’m angry. But the times I miss her are becoming far less frequent. I have more perspective. I have a better understanding of what I want from a future relationship. Oh, and I’m on a dating hiatus – not even a coffee with a woman if she asks.
I practice NC with the ex-wife (as described by Nat in her wonderful book).
The lesson?
Stop chasing unrealistic dreams. I’ve done that in the past. I’m hoping to enter my future relationship/s with greater realism and with my eyes open.
If you fear the end of a bad relationship, trust me when I say just how liberating it is to be free.
The world opens up again. You become a new person, most likely the person you want to be.
Your not alone. BR helps build you up from the inside out. Wish I had found it a few months earlier. It would have made my breaking up with the AC-GF easier. Its over 7 months NC and it hits a point where your head clears about the past and it becomes natural.
Mike,
Thanks for your thoughtful reply to my comment on the previous post. It made much sense to me and I am moved by your other comments as well. I feel sorry for the EUW for not having the resilience, patience, and *intelligence* to hold onto you. I’m glad you accepted the truth about her insecurities. One of the best lessons I learned through BR is that some people tend to bite more than they can chew. Essentially, they overestimate their interest in a person & their ability to be in a committed relationship. Habitually, they rush into relationships instead of (1) understanding & stabilizing their emotions & plans for the future, (2) acknowledging & managing their insecurities, and (3) figuring out their expectations from themselves & others.
The relationship that brought me to BR happened to be with an EUM. Despite the gender difference between our exes, I can see similarities between Mr. Liar and Miss No-Child. Following the rosy period, she disrespected you and sabotaged the relationship before opening up to you. She also acknowledged that you treated her respectfully and patiently. She is right: you deserve better. Basically, the Liar said the same thing to me in his break-up email: “I am sad and sorry that I cannot give you what you deserve”. None of us *need* to be with people who cannot give us basic things like adequate time, attention, care, and respect. Ideally, such people need to take time off dating to overcome their fears and to fix their poor relationship habits. Like you, the Fixer role comes easily to me. Fortunately, over the last five years, I learned to control my savior tendencies. Now I focus on inviting positive people into my life and improving myself – this is rewarding. Supporting and encouraging people in the goals they set for themselves is one thing. Fixing them is another – exhausting if nothing else. I hope next time you meet someone truly capable of reciprocating your care and appreciating your child.
Reading your comments also made me realize that I should let go of one of my defining relationships – the half-year relationship I had with a delightful, talented woman I met at the Uni about a decade ago. Like Miss No-Child, she had insecurities & fears that seemed insurmountable to her at the time. She and I were in our early 20s and attracted to someone of the same sex for the first time. Nothing in our behavior or appearance matched the ugly and unfair stereotypes of bisexual women that surrounded us back then. Culturally, our desire did not exist. Normally, love between women was acknowledged only to be condemned, pathologized, or judged as less than a heterosexual relationship. Both of us had limited access to representations – songs, movies, shows, forums, books – that could help us accept our feelings for one another. So it is not surprising that our relationship existed as a secret. Thinking of her now brings me joy and sadness – joy, because she and I had so many good times together; sadness, because neither she nor I had the courage to fight for our relationship. I felt overwhelming sorrow the day she admitted: “It means so much to me to be with you. But my parents and friends are never going to understand. In their eyes, we’ll always be inferior to others. I can’t give them up – and I can’t offer you anything else. You deserve much better.” Following that conversation, I never contacted her.
To cope with the rejection, confusion, shame, loss, defeat, loneliness, and rage I felt, I resolved to succeed in my goals so that I could prove to myself that I am not inferior to anyone and gain the approval of others. During this phase of my life, I dated casually & used sex as an escape from my emotions. Carrying this decade-old baggage has been tiring. I must let her go – must accept that she chose not to fight for us. I hope she is well. I also hope that one day I can accept that I’m attracted to men & women – ultimately their gender does not matter, their behavior does.
Mike, I wish that the next woman you meet treats you respectfully well past the first few months of dating. You deserve nothing less.
Nigella, thanks for your thoughtful reply and your kind words re my situation. They are greatly appreciated.
Your experience is so reminiscent of mine: that mixture of joy and sadness. However at present, I’m steering my thoughts away from the good times. In time, when I’m healed and well past acceptance I’ll bring out those memories and enjoy them for what they are: memories.
We’re taught love can conquer all, but in reality sometimes it is not enough. Not when one party allows fear to overwhelm them.
As each day passes, I’m a little more healed, happier, healthier and with some hard work wiser 🙂
What you said here:
“One of the best lessons I learned through BR is that some people tend to bite more than they can chew. Essentially, they overestimate their interest in a person & their ability to be in a committed relationship. Habitually, they rush into relationships instead of (1) understanding & stabilizing their emotions & plans for the future, (2) acknowledging & managing their insecurities, and (3) figuring out their expectations from themselves & others…”
Is so very true! To be frank I’d not paid enough attention to this fact. I assumed that if someone states convincingly – to both me and even themselves – that they are up to the task then surely it will all work out. Right?
I recognise both of us entered into the relationship with the very best of intentions.
I have no doubt the ex-GF feels the choice she made was *right for her*. That is not for me to say.
Happier or not, she has to find her own path – as I do mine.
As you said, it is about carefully selecting the people that you wish to become part of your life. Why rush something so important and essential as this?
And if I was to be honest, because of the attraction and ease of being together I over looked red flags (and I dare say she overlooked her own). We’re both doing NC, which is how it should be.
In our last email communication I told her to “Be well; travel lightly; be happy; be free.”
And I meant it. She couldn’t find a way to exit gracefully or with the dignity that respected the time we shared. So I gave the ending the dignity it deserved. Not for her, but for me and in memory of the shared time.
In my mind, I have an image of her running and never stopping: the next relationship, the next job, the next city, the next country, the next, the next, the next…
That’s her path and her choice. She’ll run till she stops, either by choice or exhaustion. Or maybe never.
We ran in parallel for a time, and then no more – diverging into different futures.
I’ve resolved at this point of my life to *stop running* and confront some hard truths about myself, the relationships I’ve selected and how I’ve acted in them. Time to rest, think about what’s next.
I fully accept I’m not the victim. I’m sure her side of the story would sound very different – as it always is the case in the ending of a relationships. Do I hate her? No. Am I angry with some her actions? Of course, and with some justification.
But we all fail at some point in our lives. Whether by design or inadvertently, we are hurt and hurt others.
Like you I’ve sought validation through my career and the opinions of others. Now, I don’t care. Or at least far less than I used too.
Re accepting oneself. That is the hardest thing to do. The narratives we tell about ourselves – that inner voice – is powerful.
But then I was taught a wonderful thing.
The inner voice you pay attention to *can be wrong*. It was the most liberating thing I’d heard, and it wasn’t until my early 40’s I learnt this basic truth. So now when the darkness or negativity comes, I can hold it apart from myself and recognise the “voice” has been prompted by fear, rejection, anger or loss.
We are what we are. I didn’t ask to be born a man, nor you a woman. Culture shapes us of course, but so does nature. Nothing about you is “wrong”.
What we do with the knowledge about the world and about ourselves – and how we can further cultivate an understanding of ourselves – is the most important task we can permit ourselves to undertake.
I was taught to “hate” myself as a child. As an adult I’ve learned to accept and love who I am. It has meant I can see the end of the relationship with sadness, but no self blame or talk of how “unworthy I am”.
Those negative voices always have a source: parents, the Church, society. Excuse my language, but f*ck those voices. We didn’t ask to have them implanted, so turn down their volume and give them far less credit than they deserve.
Thank you for you kind wishes for my future. Likewise, I hope your next relationship is the one you deserve.
Mike,
Thanks for another thoughtful reply. I am finding it helpful to hear your story and perspective on relationships at BR.
May your optimism and resolve to change reap you great results. One step at a time, things are going to get better.
Wow! I found br through someone who bit more than he could chew. It was only 3 months, yet it was enough to bring issues i had forgotten / ignored to surface. I’m glad for it though, i had clearing to do.
This stoof out to me:
“One of the best lessons I learned through BR is that some people tend to bite more than they can chew. Essentially, they overestimate their interest in a person & their ability to be in a committed relationship. Habitually, they rush into relationships instead of (1) understanding & stabilizing their emotions & plans for the future, (2) acknowledging & managing their insecurities, and (3) figuring out their expectations from themselves & others…”
Thank you, very true.
DeflatedLady,
I am happy and proud to hear you have left! I hope you are surrounded by dear friends and family to help support you through this. It will be hard until you REALLY accept and understand that you are better off without this person. Remember you are not alone and there are many women and men who struggle with NC at the beginning but I have not come across a single one who regretted it, at least when it comes to ACs.
Hearing that he is an AC, or hearing that we are right on any matter does not help per se. It may seem paradoxical at first but we to not need to be right in order to do right (https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/do-you-want-to-be-happy-or-do-you-want-to-be-right/). Also, being right may even encourage to stick around for longer so you can prove to your AC that he is wrong and needs fixing. Instead, you need to start asking yourself a set of different questions such as:
What are my basic relationship values/needs?
Does this person match with my values/needs?
You see, it does not even matter if he is an AC. There are many decent men out there who you may not fit with either but that does not mean you need to prove they are ACs or EUM or whatever inorder to justify leaving them.
It is enough to leave for your own sake!
Animo!
RP
It used to really throw me for a loop when someone who professed to be in love with you then became someone who would almost despise you. I suppose this is because I am pretty consistent with my feelings and actions and, in general, I suss out a person as much as I can before making any emotional commitment. I have learned to deal with this by almost pretending that the “old” him is someone that has died and grieve that loss accordingly. Maybe it was Nat that had once said “your relationship is the one you have right now” – wise words indeed.
Nat, you deserve a Nobel. I know I’m not the first person to say/think that, and I won’t be the last.
No, I’m not fully over the ex (I am stubborn and made of pure grit in all ways I guess), but in the fight to save myself from bad men, I have found my heart.
If I hadn’t stumbled across BR in an attempt to “hook”/catch the ex’s interest, I wouldn’t get up every day and put 200% in a career path that I’ve never been more at home in. (It was made for me or I it). I feel like I found the grandprize of life.: A vocation that ignites you. Sure, sometimes it’s miserable (I’m tired, basically spent and my callings never stop demanding of me), but I wouldn’t trade it for the world.
In the beginning, the ex “casually” flipped to a portrait of his ex he had drawn (the one with whom he tortured me with comparisons).
I wanted someone to create a likeness of me, to notice me. I wanted him to draw my portrait; he didn’t. He tortured me with false promises.
Soooo
I got involved in BR, became an art major, poured myself in drawing my own portrait and left my class/professor speechless. It’s magnificent, huge, and a billion times better than the ex’s shitty sketch of his ex.
I hate bragging about what I make, but for BR purposes I let it rip.
Peanut: “I got involved in BR, became an art major, poured myself in drawing my own portrait and left my class/professor speechless. It’s magnificent, huge, and a billion times better than the ex’s shitty sketch of his ex.”
That’s amazing!
I can relate to that. Every time I got rid of a toxic/EU computer nerd I was involved with (and whom I usually admired for their skills and their uncompromising “nerdiness”), I started improving my own computer skills. I think by now I have surpassed many of those guys in knowledge and understanding.
I think it’s a excellent idea to acquire the qualities we admire most in men ourselves.
Congratulations Deflatedlady. Things will get better for you. It wont be easy at times but I like what RP said about never meeting someone who regrets NC w an AC. I certainly don’t regret NC, it saved me. I wish you the very best and I’m proud of you.
Before anything I just want to thank all the ladies who responded to my last comment I left here on another post ( @ A, HappyAgain, Tinkerbell, Australia, Gina and Lynn ) Thank you so much for your kind words of encouragement and advices, I am sorry I didn’t reply I had so much going on, I wish we all had a forum here, where we could comunicate more easily).
Unfortunately a lot has changed since that last comment. I have been officially dumped by the EUM which never happened beore, I was doing NC, for the third time, and I broke the NC after he pursued with calling persistently the same he did every time I tried to get away, I had sex with him, regreted it so bad, but he kept calling me every day after that and I got my hopes up again, from all the cheap talk he kept feeding me with, only to hear about him seeing someone else 6 days after all of that and half an hour after hearing that seeing him in person (!) actually deliberately bringing that person to a place where I was, where I came only because of him, knowing he will be there, and he knew I will be there, he even contacted me that night, we talked and only 3h after that he came with her. I was so shocked, I think I stood there for 5 mins just staring at them getting cosy in total disbelief before I left that place and ran off straight home, hurt and disgusted. When I fianlly calmed down a little, he texts me early in the morning after he went home about some stupidity asking if I was seeing some guy I ofc am not seeing, I got so angry, I lost control typing the messages, I told him he was a pathological lier, a sick person, and all I thought of him. He kept playing dumb, throwing it on me, calling me crazy, deniying the truth and saying all he does is make excuses of himself to me and that he is tired of that, it’s his life, he won’t explain himself ever again and that he doesn’t care If I want to believe in ‘lies’ about him. I stopped reaplying after that.
We went a couple of days without contact, and I broke it off by asking to go out a few days later. I was feeling so bad, I don’t even know why, we fought before I never felt this bad, not being able to stand the fact that things are the way they are, I did that stupid mistake of calling him, for the first time ever, calling him first, i never did it in these 6 months. We went out and it was all I did not expect, first acting all happy and like nothing happened, and then after I said I was so hurt by what I saw and heard he oficially dumped me, so cold, so heartless, saying he ‘doesn’t want me to suffer’ and that we must ‘erase it all’, asking to be friends, and even more insulting asking to be friends with benefits, but without me ‘making problems’ to him, and to top it all saying he doesn’t regret a thing in these 6 months, and that he would do it all again, because HE is more ‘wealthy’ for the experience of meeting me in his life. He suggested we must ‘step on breaks’ with our attraction, and talking a lot of things he never said before. I felt awful I couldn’t even speak properly, I was shocked.
He then kissed me later, I allowed it, feeling so cheap and so humiliated, but still even then I hoped for something, but when he even offered me to go to his place and have sex I kindly refused, snapped out of whatever state I was, back to reality I said goodbye and went home.
Ofc I have seen the red flags, ofc I knew in the back of my mind it would never work out from the start, but all the manipulation and his whole strategy of blowing hot and cold, pursuing me after I’d leave, telling me he can’t be with me, that he is ‘not capable’ of a relationship, does not want one, and then when I leave he calls to see me, only to tell me to forget it all, and that we have such a nice time together, no other women exsist , telling me sweet lies and stories, acting like the most amazing man ever, doing beautiful things, introducing me to his friends and family, contacting me and calling me everyday, caring about me, (and so so much more but I am already writing too much) – it was all nothing but a very well known strategy he uses to get what he wants, satisfy his ego, and nothing more !
But even knowing all of this, I am hurting. It has triggered my anxiety so bad, my health issues which I have are in a very bad place now.
I wish to snap out of it all but I feel so angry and so cheated!
I have no wish to contact him nor will I ever, but I am hurting so much, this time I know it’s over for good, because it’s the first time he did something like this, it was me who always was ending it, and I am happy it is over but my ego is hurt, I realise it is my ego, because he is the one that ended it, he is the one who dumped me when I was at my weakest, humiliating me so much with all that he said and the way he treated me in the end, like a hooker, that is how I felt. He showed no sings of remorse, and I see him moving on like nothing had happened, which hurts me, to see, this person who acted like the most beautiful and generous person in the world is actually such an AC?!
The moment I showed my emotions, the moment he knew I was hooked, things went downhill, only to realize that everytime he had to see me again I was facing him more and more with reality, which he has a problem facing, telling him all about him, aiming at his problems, his issues, ofc I became boring to him beacuse of that and he decided it was time to ‘remove’ me and he did. And is showing no universal healthy human values in him whatsoever after it. It is so hard to accept that he never ever cared at all. We get so caught up in the manipulation, I am so mad !
I don’t even know , I am a bit lost in writing this, I am sorry I had to let at least a bit of it out. I just beg every beautiful lady out there who is doing NC to keep dong it ! Don’t break it ! Keep pushing on, save yourself from humiliation and further pain, I know I wish I could.
Joy,
Why had you given him NC, twice before, if this is the first time he has acted up?
I’m sorry, three times?
Oh Joy, I’m sorry.
These type of people are so soul destroying. You’re not the only one who has been there, please don’t beat yourself up. You are human. You will learn from this experience.
And HE is the one who should be humiliated and ashamed for treating someone else so terribly. What a disgusting excuse for a human being.
Remember that you have nothing to be embarrassed about. I expect that this guy will reach out to you again under the guise of ‘friendship’ or wanting to see how you’re doing….blah blah bs.
You will have your chance to show him that he no longer holds any power of you and isn’t worthy of your time by blocking him out completely. Remain NC and don’t ever respond to him and his nonsense again.
Stay strong.
Joy- you have a cognative dissonance between his confusing messages and loving words, with horrific actions, pulling you in just to pull the rug under you- over and over and over, you are freshly shocked each time. To make it more clear; once and for all- just google “conversations with a sociopath” there will be over 180,000 results, just click on the first ten to twenty…. see if you can see a pattern.
Thank you A and Anon. It is really encouraging to read your responses because we are all seeking vaidation and support here.
A you are right, as I wrote below He actually sent me a message this morning, sending a picture of something and a smiley face. I know he went on a trip and is probably something funny, I didn’t opet it nor do I want to. But I mean, he just acts as if nothing is wrong, or to say, we are now such good friends and he has every right to contact me and act like everything is normal and okay. He has actually no, but I really mean no knowledge or sense about what he did, and how I feel, and this whole situation. He is just that selfish! I sometimes really feel his immaturity, but most of all lack of feeling of respect towards other. In his eyes he is the so innocent and never ever wanted to do any harm… Oh please.
And Anon I belive he is some form of a sociopath. He actually said this himself telling me that everything I am accusing him of is a pattern of a sociopath and that it is insane because he is not like that, stating ‘ Who does does things, you are crazy to believe I am like that’.
Yeah. Right..
Joy,
I think he’s trying to confuse and manipulate you. If he behaves confidently as though nothing is wrong, it’s a bit of a mindf*ck. You may start to question your reaction/feelings. You seem to see this for what it is – don’t let him cause you to question your own feelings or assessment of the situation.
Good for you for not opening his email – blocking his emails so that you won’t see them at all would be a good idea.
Shut him out entirely. These guys feed off of the attention/feeling as though even though he broke up with you he can still contact you and have you in his life whenever and however he pleases.
The assh*le I was involved with pulled the same shit – acting all happy and as though everything was fine. They know when they’ve hurt others, they just don’t care.
Joy, it sounds very familiar, to see how someone you believed to be warm, generous etc really is. These people choose never to see the light or the harm they are doing, they start crazy-making and are skilled in finding support from others.
“In his eyes he is the so innocent and never ever wanted to do any harm” – he will probably keep on believing this. But who knows? My ex-AC thought he was ‘just doing his thing’, was always being ‘straight’ with people and just happened to be leaving a trail of destroyed women behind him, but sometimes he would joke about calling them his ‘victims’ and it was like his obtuseness was an active decision. It’s none of our business anymore, walking away means we focus on enriching our own lives instead.
It’s very infuriating when they act like nothing is wrong because you realise the whole thing has been an act, that they’ve barely ever been genuine with you and it was your choice to accept the BS. I decided my ex was soulless at this point. He will never, ever see what he has done so it is a waste to try and show or convince him.
Bringing the other woman out to where you were sounds like the outrageous principle https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/the-outrageous-principle-when-someone-tests-you-to-see-how-much-they-can-get-away-with/
I think you’ve seen him for who he really is and will keep up NC. You have a beautiful journey ahead of you that isn’t in the hands of someone who will hurt you without caring, it’s a lot of anger to work through, just focus on your recovery and keep coming here for support x
Okay, I know I’m going a bit off topic here, buuut, I am so curious as to opinions on this.
I’ve seen a lot of Facebook posts about love, love, love in a spiritual sense.
Like–Everything is love; love is all there is; love is the answer-and, yes, followed up with a half naked yoga pose.
Am I missing something here?
Love wasn’t the only answer with the ex. Anger was the catalyst that got me speaking up and leaving.
And going through the BR stuff (books and classes) was so messy, but it got me to the other end.
To me, love is not an ambiguous feeling. It’s wanting the best for someone, emotional support, and affection.
I feel a full range of emotions. Yes, loving type things. But when I need to pay my bills, love is not the answer: money is. When I need to eat, love is not the answer, food is. Maybe it’s that these self-preserving actions are self-love? I can’t meet my basic human needs on love alone. I need resources just like the rest of us human folk.
Then what’s the whole thing about “we are all one.” Erm, I’m not everyone else. I am me, a seperate individual/entity–completely my own.
Is this love love love stuff gibberish, or am I just being spiritually inept?
Life is crazy and horrible sometimes and we’re allowed to feel/express/live that. At least that’s my take on it.
Though I barely sit still for five minutes let alone mediate (though it might serve me well), I am becoming quite fond of my grumpy ass self.
Love is an overused word.
A family member of mine recently adopted two small children. They had been forcibly removed from their mother, who truthfully did love them. But she could not or would not care for them, make sure their basic needs were met or protect them from harm.
Maybe the EUMs have some of that issue- they maybe do have “feelings” but they can’t or won’t translate them into caring behaviour. It’s a moot point.
I read somewhere that when you do caring things for other people your feelings of benevolence, liking, and caring for them increase, so in a way you grow your own love. That’s why it’s important to choose wisely who you will care for.
Peanut,
My humble opinion is that those “universal-love” posts are just an oversimplification of profound spiritual teachings. Something that would look nice on a cheesy postcard with sunsets and babies with dimples, but nothing else.
Perhaps the very few who take the hard work to learn and grow spiritually come to the conclusions you see on those posts, but not in the sense we understand it. Not like in the lazy, all-fits-one formula you see on FB.
Hi Peanut,
I deleted my FB months ago, as at that point I could not stop checking up on my ex husband. I have to agree with you that it seems everywhere you look love is being bandied about as if it is just some trite word. After 9 months of feeling pretty crappy about myself, my ex tells me he still loves me (in an email). I have to wonder what he would have done had he hated me! Yikes. I think it just becomes so easy for people to say the word love and not really have it mean anything. I mean a guy can say I love you after:
signing up for POF dating cite (prior to telling me he was moving out after 20 years of marriage
Then finding out that this person he was leaving me for was a Ghana romance scam
then moving out in a week. Had to sell our house, blah, blah. So now he says I still love you and always will. I ask what the hell does that mean? Nothing. There is nothing there. It is very difficult at times to try to wrap my head around everything that has happened. I am not responsible for the choices he made. So when someone says all this love stuff, I think a lot of it is hogwash! My ex likes to tell people he is a buddhist and “zen like”. I have to laugh. I am working so hard on me. My self worth, my lack of self esteem and to have this assclown say, I still love you? That is why I have doubled down on NC. I find nothing attractive or loving about him and yet there is still this ridiculous pull to the crappy known. I don’t like it there, hell I don’t like him. So when people start throwing around the word love, I just think it is all together used for the wrong reasons. Just my 2 cents worth.
This post and comments are so good! It’s been two years since I went no contact with the loser I was involved with. He was so amazing in the beginning just as many of you have described. I should have looked at the red flags at the time but the rest of the feelings were so good I ignored them. Of course reality hit with a bang about four months in. I finally gave up trying to get it back though it took me much longer than it should have. He immediately hooked up with someone else and I initially thought he was better with her but heard from a friend who ran into her the other day that he continues to be a nightmare with the same issues that he’s always had. A book that got me through the initial phase of NC that REALLY helped me understand how crazy I felt having so much trouble moving on was Narcissistic Lovers. It and this site helped me regain my sanity.
And negative thoughts have been my savior through all of this. When they are mounted in reality, they serve as a springboard to problem solving.
Self-loathing thoughts feel pretty awful, but I’m grateful for those too.
Once they came to the surface, it expained so much (why I chose the people/places I did), and I knew what I was working with.
We’ve gotta feel it all: The good, bad, and the ugly, and process the thoughts that go along with it. Scary shit. But it’s the only way to make full use of a life.
Peanut, yes a big ‘theme’ to me in recovery has been positivity/ negativity. This is because, as I wrote somewhere else, I became fixated on the idea I was a negative person, when really, my life was a mess at that point and had I not been ‘negative’, I would have been in denial.
I try to move away from binaries altogether, I don’t like the false head-in-the-clouds spirituality you see on FB etc, though I am quite spiritual myself and I appreciate that we need destruction as well as creation in life. What is positive is the truth, however ugly it is, not just saying that something is ‘good’ and seeing the silver lining while pretending the cloud doesn’t exist.
I’ve realised that often when I tell close friends that my dad is an alcoholic, they’ll say ‘but he’s nice and cares about you doesn’t he’ – and then I used to feel ashamed and like I’m a negative person for saying something bad in what was a fairly light ‘how’s your family?’ conversation. They’re being well-meaning and I’ve realised it’s not their responsibility to reflect reality, but mine to say out loud or to myself, ‘yes he cares but his choice to solve problems with alcohol and not seek help took over his desire to be a parent so I will not back-pedal on what I see as the truth about him’. I’ve learned to lose that defensiveness and let my friends be considerate without taking it as an attack or using that as a way to ‘blame’ myself for bringing negativity into a conversation.
The upshot is, I have a much better idea now of what being positive is about. It’s about truth (one of my core values), it’s about using that truth to empower yourself to be the best you can be, as Nat once said to me ‘the only limits on us are the ones we set for ourselves.’ The deficient childhoods/ families that have brought many/most of us here set many limits on us that we will only understand if we unpack the people and people and processes that shaped us. It’s about being active and courageous in your own life, changing the things you can change, detaching from the things you can’t change and that are harmful, quitting things that don’t work, building on the things that do work, none of this can be done without seeing the ‘negative’ things first.
Ah! I think I figured it out. Maybe people are confusing love and gratitude (not the same thing), and shameless, lude pretzel selfies in undies as spiritual practise.
I can’t wait to take another one of Natalie’s courses–one of the other few places I feel at home. (Or where sanity abounds).
Just want to say a HUGE Thanks to Natalie and ALL of you wonderful ladies (and Mike from Oz!) who have taken the time to advise me and comment on any of my posts.
I only went NC last night, but I woke up today and actually felt GOOD. This may sound silly but, today the sun is shining (I live in the UK, it always rains!). My drive to work seemed less stressful than usual. Every traffic light was green. My favourite parking space was available. I FEEL a shift in energy (even if its just in my own little world). I have re-read all of the posts from yesterday, re-read Natalies article and I know Im ready for this.
I have even taken off my stubborn/denial hat and see that the ‘tough love’ comments were extremely accurate AND helpful (Thanks RP, Allison, Sandy et al) . I know it wont be easy, but I know I also deserve better and I have LOTS of work to do on myself, which Im ready to embrace. BR is a wonderful site and I am very grateful to have it in my life.
One last thing – we can ALL do this. Together.We must believe we are worth more than crumbs, we are worth more than drama, and no matter what in life, you cannot control the uncontrolable. We are NOT responsible for someone else’s behaviour towards us! I am so proud of the women who have gotten through the other side (or at least are certainly on their way) and they then take the time to come here and share and help others. I will keep coming back to this site, as part of my healing and hopefully I can offer my own advice, support and love in the future. hugs to all of you, and thank you xxx
Deflated,
There will be tough patches, but its only upward from here! 🙂
Good for you!! The way you feel is such a good feeling! You feel empowered! I hope that all women who have been through this understand that there is light at the end of tunnel and it is EUM/assclown free!
Deflated, nice comment. It feels unbearable and impossible to walk away, then when you finally do, it’S amazingly simple and brings serenity, nothing to fear anymore and nothing to do but move forward.
Again bravo. Those little moments of happiness and clarity will come with greater frequency over time. More quickly than you’d imagine. Remember those moments when your feeling the very opposite of that (i.e. lost, unsure or feeling like you’ve made a mistake). Trust your intiutions.
I’ve found the best thing to do is move.
I get out of the house, go for a walk, go the gym.
Even if I’m struggling with my thoughts the movement helps.
Ladies,
I just read the following in PD James´ novel Original Sin and thought of all the Florences among us:
“He (…) recognized that this was one more manifestation of his recurrent psychological need to search out and love the vulnerable, the innocent, the hurt and the weak, to give rather than to receive. He knew that it didn´t make for an equal relationship, that a constant uncritical kindness could in its subtle condescension be as oppressive to the loved one as cruelty or neglect. Was this how he bolstered his ego, by the knowledge that he was needed, depended upon, admried for a compassion which when he looked at it with honest eyes was a particularly subtle form of emotional patronage and spiritual pride?”
Great quote, Lilia! There are such gems of wisdom in literature! One of my favourite quotes is by an Australian author, Luke Davies, in the book “Isabelle the Navigator”:
“I learnt too late that what is most important to us is always most precious at the moment it occurs, and it is precious in its absolute immediacy and not as some vague confirmation of future directions; since the only certain fact, aside from death, is the flimsiness of everything.”
“I learnt too late that what is most important to us is always most precious at the moment it occurs, and it is precious in its absolute immediacy and not as some vague confirmation of future directions; since the only certain fact, aside from death, is the flimsiness of everything.”
Depending on the perspective, this could be a line from EU Manual 101, “How to sweet talk someone so they will Go With The Flow (aka Go With An EU Flow).
Yes, I agree, lizzp. Like most things in life, everything can be interpreted in different ways, by different people. I think I like the quote mostly because it reminds me to be present, in the present. Often I am either envisaging too much in the future, or reminiscing too much in the past. But it can certainly be interpreted from the EU-side too!
Hi Ladies – Just need some love. A friend felt the need to tell me yesterday that my ex EUM is already moving in with his EU GF. They’ve only been together for a few months and she isn’t even divorced yet. I focus too much on his actions because I wouldn’t do this kind of stuff and I’ve always expected more from him even though he’s always shown his true colors. I know it will explode….and whether she knows it or not…he still tries to get through to me in stupid ways. The latest way was sending me a friend request on instagram. I ignored it. He’s so stupid. they both have kids and are setting such a bad example for them. I was preparing myself for this type of news because he moves fast…but it hurts. I haven’t cried over him in awhile but last night I did. Its hard to think that she is getting what I thought I wanted. We talked about living together but I wasn’t ready yet….we knew each other for 2 years though…not just a few months. I am sure if he had moved in with me it would have blown up…and I know I dodged a bullet. Its just hard.
“Its hard to think that she is getting what I thought I wanted.”
If you really think about it, the man you thought you wanted doesn’t exist. The “man” you wanted was only “The Rep”. It’s The Rep’s job to say and do all the right things to cause us to fall in love, in like, or in lust with the person *we think* we’re getting to know. After The Rep’s job is done, he or she leaves, and THEN we’re left with the real person we *thought* we fell for. Unfortunately, it can take months and even years for the TRUTH to really sink in that the person we thought we fell for *never* *even* *existed*.
We only have one life and it’s far too short to spend it with someone, ANYONE who doesn’t truly love us. Yes, it’s hard, but it will get easier with the passage of time — and oftentimes lots of it.
Cami – you are right. He ALWAYS managed down my expectations. I was working on my relationship inventory (something through getting past your breakup) and had to write down the 5 most hurtful things he said or did. One of them was telling me that he was only in the relationship at 75% (because he was scared) and that maybe I should be sowing my wild oats and maybe he needs someone more spontaneous. I remember laying there and I didn’t say a damn thing. I don’t know why I didn’t. I think I just thought he was talking out of his bum…but he never knew what he wanted. At times he would talk about us getting married, at other times he would say I don’t know what I want. I know now that I thought I would BE the exception to his EU behavior. That I could break his cycle. But he is the only one that can and he refuses to go to counseling. He had a rough childhood with verbal and physical abuse and then was very damaged by his divorce. He will never change.
Dear Lynn
I can understand how much it hurts. What I say in this post is probably just reiterating what you already know. But I’ll do it anyway, because I think sometimes it helps to hear it from others. Also, here is a cross-continental hug!
So first of all, leopards don’t change their spots. He will treat her as he has treated you. There is no doubt about that. Surely you would not want to experience that again? Also, the Instagram request – this is a clear illustration of his vacuousness and disrespect for you (and the current GF). “Oh, I’ll just reach out to Lynn while I’m about to move in with someone else.” It is cruel and hurtful, and shows his true colours.
It helps to swivel the mindset a little and be grateful for what you aren’t experiencing. Because I think if someone offered the two options on a platter (being where you are now, or being in the GF’s shoes), you would choose the former. Because you might be grateful for how far you’ve come, you might be grateful for the lessons learnt and the strength you now have, and you might be grateful for not being subject to EUM torture on a regular basis (and in one’s own home. These are just examples.
Although I am unsure where the EUM I recently dated has moved on or not, I do know that I am grateful for:
1) not being subjected to his controlling nature;
2) not feeling unsure and uncertain 75% of the time;
3) not experiencing his moods, woe is me tales, and his endless talk of himself; and
4) the whole ‘take, take, take’ side of his nature.
Sure, there were good times, as there always are. But these lists help me to remember what I am not going through.
So today, please focus on you. Enjoy the freedom you have, and remember what you truly deserve – love, care, trust and respsct. I am sure his current GF is very much settling for less than this. You know that you deserve more than crumbs. She can have his crumbs – in a shared house or otherwise.
Pop down to the shopping mall, eat some of your favourite food, get a haircut, read your favourite novel. Look after Lynn. Tomorrow you’ll wake up and the news won’t be new, and you’ll be happy you’re exactly where you are.
Big hugs.
LoveFromNel – thank you so much for replying. I was really hoping some of you would as I really needed to hear some good stuff! You are right…leopards do not change their spots and I need to remember that. I did tell myself several times yesterday – you are free. You can do what you want. If you were still together you would be hurting in some way whether you realized it or not because he’s not enough and never will be. I doubted my ex’s feelings all the time. So I can relate to your #2. I hated it. I want to be someone’s priority not feel like an option. And your #3 – I laughed out loud because that is what he did. Talked about himself ALL the time. He has no friends, lives with his mom right now but always had something to complain about. Then when I would talk to him about me I would always ask ‘are you listening to me?’ as he’s watching the tv or on his phone. And #4 he did a lot of taking. I was actually waiting to have sex until I got married (since I had waited so long already) but I decided to have sex with him. I don’t regret it and it was alot of fun but I know that this is part of my issue too. He was my first…
I really value everyone’s advice on this site and I am so grateful I found baggage reclaim.
I hope you are feeling a bit better, Lynn? Keep on relishing the freedom! The EUM you dated and the one I dated sound eerily similar. He also had few friends – mainly because they had all wronged him in some way or another. And yes, he didn’t listen to me much either! He was off in his own little world. I also related to Joy’s post below (and you may have too) about the warnings they gave off early on: “I don’t know what I want, I don’t know if I want to be in a relationship, I don’t know if I can give what you need.” Blah blah blah. Next time, I will listen to these words, and next time I’ll trust my intuition, and have strong boundaries. We can only learn from this experience! I can also understand that it’s made somewhat harder by the fact he is the first person you slept with. I think I mourned my first relationship a lot longer, and more intensely, for this reason. Have a lovely weekend. And take care of you.
LoveFromNel – I am feeling better. I think I just need to figure out how to fully let go of the rejection I feel and even when he contacted me in January he was telling me that relationships will never be the same to him since his marriage yet he’s moving in with her? I know how he feels about moving in though – its not a big deal. He told me if we didn’t work out he would just move out….I see it differently then he does. I know that he won’t change. I am just ‘talking’ out loud my thoughts right now.
My EUM doesn’t have many friends because know one gets to know him as he always comes off as a cocky jerk. Ha As I typed that I think why did I hang around but I did get to know him as much as he would allow. I know and saw how his past has damaged him and that’s why he is the way he is today. I have to keep telling myself that he is fast forwarding/future faking and that it will blow up because I can get stuck on the fact that we never got to that point of living together which I guess makes me feel like I wasn’t enough which I Know is ridiculous because he wasn’t enough. The female brain is a wicked thing. haha
Hi Lynn,
Here’s some love (and tissues). Let it all out then it’s back to you and your wonderful future without the EUM. Hugs to you, xxx.
Can I mention this phrase (again)?
“You dodged a bullet”
His actions aren’t a reflection of your value. If anything they reflect more poorly on him. They show a lack of self awareness and understanding. This person lacks emotional maturity. In his need to rush from his feelings he is seeking to paper over his own guilt, shame and grief with a new relationship.
He is also treating this woman with a lack of respect and dignity. Sure the two will shack up, but really how long do you think that honeymoon will last? I’d dare so his latest relationship will follow the same pattern. It will go from “Wow!” to “OMG what hell!” pretty quick smart. Never take the brave faces and false fronts people put on for granted.
Unless people like that make a conscious effort to change, their love lives will continue to mimic hyper-active stock market in swinging from boom to bust again and again.
Generally, they never learn the lessons life teaches them.
As Nat says in her book, his actions do not reflect your worth.
However, *we* can learn to make more worthy investments, and avoid the boom-bust relationship trap. That’s were I’d like to think I’m at.
My ex-GF had a string of two year relationships before we got together.
We lasted… wait for it… two years.
Prior to the end of our time together talk about the future was muted or a strict no-go (she’d get agitated by it). There was my red flag, and I should have paid more attention.
She’s an attractive women, and will have no problem finding suitors. For the first few weeks my thoughts we dominated by the thought of her replacing me quickly. I had awful visions of her swanning off with [insert image of person with XYZ characteristic]
“Wasn’t I good enough?” was the thought that crossed my mind. But that is the feeling of rejection. Don’t turn it on yourself. All break ups are complicated. Don’t expect it to make sense. Don’t expect them to give you an answer that makes sense either. They’re even *more clueless*.
I now think if she’s already found a new BF, partner or lover then she’s really not a person worth my time and investment. If she lacks the self awareness and emotional literacy to take stock of her actions and who she wants to be, then that is exactly the kind of person I don’t want to meet in the future.
At first the more vengeful part of my mind would say “Wouldn’t it be nice if the ex-GF never found love again? That’s karma!”
But I think there is enough hate and bad will in the world. I’m not going to add to it. The only path forward I’m concerned about at the present is mine.
A wonderful friend of mine in New Zealand emailed not long after my break up and said this: “Bad situations pass, good people are consistent in your life”.
Find the good, consistent and trust worthy people in your life and spend time with them.
They are a true reflection of yourself: not the male/female ACs and the like that come into our lives and wreak bloody havoc.
It’s not fair that they do. But treat it as a teaching moment – even if the lesson feels unduly harsh.
Mike, I’m really enjoying your viewpoint and your insights. We need more male input here so please keep posting!
mike from oztralia – thank you! I loved what you wrote. And its nice to hear from a man. 🙂 He is an emotional robot. Very damaged and wont’ work on himself. I realize now that I wanted to be the exception and break his emotionally unavailability cycle. I thought my love would encourage him to be a better person. Yea, he showed some signs of making better financial choices (he’s terrible with money) and some other things but he will never change. I witnessed so many mean and hurtful arguments between his mother and him that I hated being in the house when they fought. The mom would call him fat in front of me and he would tell her he hated it. Just not a good situation. I always thought to myself if he treats his mom like this when will he start treating me like this even though he told me he would never do that because he hates his mom and not me. He doesn’t really have a relationship track record. After his divorce he hated women and didn’t want anything to do with them. Eventually he just started sleeping around and avoiding the emotional connection. Not that he can REALLY connect with anyone.
When we started hanging out (I met him through a co-worker) he was in lust with a woman who had an affair with him and he was good friends with her boyfriend of 10 years. He thought she was the one but he always based it on the physical connection they had not emotional. That is despicable to me…but I hung around anyway because at that point I wanted to be a good influence in his life and I was getting attention whether it was healthy or not.
We broke up because he told me something is missing. One time he told me that he feels like he should want to kiss me every time he looks at me….I remember saying this is not the notebook. This is real life. But I have learned he thinks love is like the movies and is chasing a feeling.
Anyway – I did dodge a bullet. And I need to keep reminding myself that I deserve someone who adores me and makes me a priority in their life…who actually has feelings and truly cares.
as for your ex-gf…its interesting her relationship cycles of 2 years. She obviously needs to take a break herself and work through everything but people like her and my ex-eum won’t and just continually cover up feelings by finding someone else.
I do have amazing people in my life. Its interesting that all my friends are amazing but when it comes to guys I suck at picking the good ones. ha
Lynn,
These two things really stuck out in your post:
“I thought my love would encourage him to be a better person”
“but I hung around anyway because at that point I wanted to be a good influence in his life”
Lynn, this speaks volumes. Ask yourself why you believe you have the power to change someone, as well as, why you feel the need to?
Fixer uppers are a never ending battle, and a waste of time. Focus on your own needs.
Allison – I think I want to help the underdog. I didn’t fully realize that I was doing this with him until I read some of Natalie’s articles about fixer uppers and being a Florence nightingale. I don’t have the power to change him or anyone. And that is something I definitely learned from my experiences with him.
Likewise – the curse of the fixer upper is to never fix, but fail time and time again.
I’ve really come to appreciate the only thing I have the ability to fix is my attitudes towards myself and relationships. I think that’s enough for one person to shoulder 😉
However it has taken me a very some time to finally appreciate this.
First off, sending lots of love to you… I’ve been exactly where you are. Knew AC for five years. Been over for five months, NC for two months. I’m not counting the days anymore. He went back to his ex gf who he now lives with probably half the time. It hurt at first, but the more time that goes by, I realize that I’m so much better off without him in my life and I’m pretty certain he is no different with her and she is settling for crumbs.
First of all, you must remind yourself that what you thought you wanted with him was an illusion. He will never be the man that you need him to be. Not with you, not with her. I wanted this illusion but have finally realized he’s not capable of being the man I wanted him to be.
It’s okay to cry if thats what you’re feeling and yes, it is hard, but what I know for sure is that the longer you can go NC, the less you will care who he’s with or what he’s doing. He sounds like an AC and you sound like you deserve so much more and better than him.
Know you dodged a bullet!
Big hugs…
Deflated Lady,
I’m happy to hear you did it! Keep coming back here to reinforce your decision. I know how hard it is to go through all this so first, be kind to yourself.
Secondly, you sound great in your last post but don’t overestimate your happiness. Instead, prepare yourself for the scenario of him contacting you and be ready to ignore him and stay strong. I’ve found with my journey of healing from the AC, it was always two steps forward and one step back. You will have great days and bad days to come, but I can tell you, each day that you don’t have contact with him is a good day! Don’t allow him to ruin any more of your days by randomly showing up. Always be prepared to shut him down.
The longer the NC goes, the more I realize just how despicable a person he was. It isn’t until you’re completely removed from them that you can really see clearly how little you were settling for. Sometimes something he said or did will pop into my head and it truly makes me cringe that I allowed him in my life at all. NC has made that possible. The “cringe” moments are what has given me strength to heal. Embrace the cringe! LOL
So keep moving forward, knowing you deserve better than him. Best to you!
Well said Lorraine,
@ Deflated Lady you will feel the euphoria for the first few days and then as Lorraine has said the anger, sadness will set in and this is the time for you to really look after yourself and to just take it a day at a time, it is hard, bloody hard but it is worth it…it took me a year but I am at a really happy, calm place in my life. Like Lorraine I think of the cringe moments but they make me feel stronger not weaker, never ever ever again will I let a man treat me like he did…during my five years with him I spent hours googling his behaviour, reading books, trying so desperately to understand what the hell was happening, blaming myself, morphing into somebody I didn’t even like until I just couldn’t take any more, once you get to that stage that’s when you know you deserve better.
And now I am ME again, the fiery, independant woman that I lost, my health has improved, my self esteem is getting better and I know I am so much stronger then he will ever be.
You will get there to, just believe in yourself, come on BR when you need to vent and get support, you will get through this, just know that we are all here for you.
@Allison
Yes, this is the first time he acted up and the first time he stopped contacting me in every way. It’s been a week but nothing from him at all, and even though it hurts to deal with it I am happy he is doing the NC on me (oh the irony) since I have lost all of the illusion I had of him & us. I am clear and honest with myself – I do not want to have anything with the kind of person he is.
But I am hurting because beside everything I knew I still never ever imagined he would treat me this way and dump me – just like that. I thought he had more respect or emphaty, or that he cared about me.
And to answer your question – I went NC with him the first time when I told him I had feelings for him after 4 months of seeing him. He said nothing, claiming he was shocked. I thought that was the end and that he didn’t feel the same way although until then everything showed otherwise. But he surprised me by calling and begging to see me after that which I in fear of what I was going to hear denied. But he was so persistent he came and sat outside my house begging me to talk. I accepted and he shared with me that he also has feelings towards me and so much respect and that he doesn’t want to lose me and what we have but that he just wants to take it slow. I believed that and we made up, only to have him one day after tell me he made a mistake by doing that and that he can’t be in a relation ship because he knows he will hurt me, and that he doesn’t have the energy to change himself. I left that night and pursued NC. I was doing so good but he kept calling again, texting, calling…until I gave in. He then told me I got it all wrong, that he can’t lose me, and yada yada and I gave in – again! But nothing changed so I did NC again and lasted a month resisting and ignoring him but in the end I gave up again and we had sex and he did what he did as I wrote before. And I just can’t grasp the amount of selfishness he has, and the way he turned out to be.
It is always a red flag when they say “they want to take it slow” or “we are moving to fast”. What they mean is you are moving to fast for them. Think about it – If you are dating someone that actually likes you they would act this way about a relationship? It’s not like you are asking to marry them. You did right by backing off and please don’t sleep with him anymore because he is only going to cause more confusion and hurt. Good Luck.
Mymble and Lilia,
Thank you for your comments. I realized, too, that I take Facebook so seriously and it’s really a poor measure of anything. It’s crazy all the cheesy love babble gets at least thirty plus likes and more if it features a scantily clad woman, but posts that are actually interesting get maybe 1 or 2 likes.
And the friends thing. Most people who request me are creeps, so I don’t friend them. But people go on with this like they’re some sort of celebrity. I would LOVE to not have Facebook but there is school stuff posted that I need to pay attention to. I guess it comes down to expectations. I go on there expecting for some kind of social need to be met, and end up just feeling empty and drained of faith in humanity. Facebook. Where the ego lives.
Hi Peanut,
Unknown to me, my now ex husband was running what he “called an experiment” on FB (yeah right). Turns out he was friend requesting everyone and now has 800 of his closet friends. I hate FB. I am sorry but I think it is lazy and a total waste of time. I spent the first month after he moved out, trolling his page and it was so bad. I then decided I would create a fake person and friend him. Of course he accepted as I pretended to be 25 (half my age and his) and he accepted in 10 minutes with his crap. I deleted it right away as I realized how bad my obsessing had gotten. My ex lives only in the virtual world anymore. He has no wife, the kids have not spoken to him since he walked out 9 months ago. He has no friends. His whole life is social media. I am sure the FB has its place but it seems so easy to have it take over ones whole life. I have decided if I want to talk to someone, I will call them. I really don’t need to know what someone ate for dinner or what they are watching on tv. I mean how foolish does a person have to be to think that all happiness can come from the internet? It started 6 years ago when he decided he hated Obama during the elections and just had to find a place to vent online. From there, he lost his mind. He can pretend to be anything. Of course he forgot he had a wife. Long story.
Peanut, If you’re finding or realise that effbook plays to unhealthy or tender and hurting parts of yourself, you can set up a dummy profile (just a name)and deactivate/delete your real profile. Use the dummy profile to check the necessary updates on your school effbook sites.
Precisely what my aunt has just done.
Facebook is entirely what you make of it.
It’s just a space and you can mould that space to be what you want it to be.
My FB space has no more than 35 friends and each of those is there for a good reason. They might be real life (RL) friends that I’m interested in seeing what they’re up to. Some are people I’ve only met a couple of times but they post interesting titbits or information on topics I care about. A couple I have there because they’re RL friends but I filter to only get occasional updates because their posts are cheesy/boring. Basically I apply an ninteresting/informative filter to friends and their posts. I am lucky that most of my friends do have interesting things to share.
I also follow cool pages and really enjoy the posts from them. Pages like ‘Skeletor is love’, ‘I f*cking love science’, ‘I require Art’, ‘Earth Porn’, ‘The Dork Side’ and many more. I commute by train and it’s one way I pass the time with enjoyment 🙂
As for my own timeline; it’s become a place of affirmation and self esteem building and rather like an old fashioned photo album. Apart from little shares or info stuff, I post things for myself. It’s nice when other folks see or comment but it’s not the main reason for posting.
I can get terribly depressed and catastrophise and I have a rotten memory so I use FB as a journal and CBT tool. If I’m telling myself I never go anywhere or never look nice etc… my record in FB tells me otherwise and helps me pull myself back to reality. I’m also starting to post things just for myself, viewable only by myself.
I’m hopeless at journalling and that kind of thing but I recognise how invaluable a tool it is and I’m happy that FB is a space that I can use for that purpose.
Peanut, this is not an easy time to live in. Not socially, not economically, not politically and certainly not culturally. Modern culture is bankrupt in many ways but there are people out there struggling for deeper meaning and high-quality connection in their lives. You don’t have to settle for Facebook mentality and the banal diet of celebrity gossip and other crap we’re spoon fed daily. Keep searching for connections that speak to your soul – finding it in art is already a huge plus. All the great humanities offer a enlarged and noble vision of the world, and there are people out there who embrace this. People also find grounding and meaning in authentic spiritual experience as well. I couldn’t get through the day without leaning on the wisdom of my spiritual teachers. I encourage you to dig deeper than what modern society offers us on the surface because otherwise it’s easy to sink into contempt and cynicism.
Deflated, just wanted to say you gooooo girl! I know exactly how it feels, been there in a relationship with a terrible narcissist / AC… it felt like hell but I am sooo much stronger, now NC for 7 months. You can do this!
I realized why I’m not with the ex. It hurt too much. No matter how good it felt at times, all in all it just hurt. It wasn’t enough, the good wasn’t enough.
I ended it with the ex because it hurt when he abused me and he didn’t want to change.
On a social note:
It feels awful to try and be friends with people that just aren’t interested.
It’s funny, before BR, I had quite a few social outlets/friends, then I got emotionally healthy and couldn’t stand the majority of people I used to spend time with.
I used to think I wasn’t good enough for anybody. Now I think I’m too good for everybody I used to know and frequently meet.
I find people vapid and exhausting so much of the time. Who I am relating to is changing so fast. I feel I see straight through the superficialities of most and it makes so many such a huge turn off. I see everything and I am so alone socially. I think that’s how it goes. But then when I have a chance to be social, it exhausts me.
Dear Peanut
I can relate to what you’re experiencing and feeling about friends.
I also feel I can see through their superficiality to their bare bones.
I never used to be like this. I would want so much to be liked, and wanted and needed as a friend. I used to think the more friends I had, the better.
This year, and towards the end of last year, I changed. It probably coincides with discovering BR.
I am comfortable now in my own skin. Social situations with people I don’t like exhaust me too. I’d rather be at home, in my cosy townhouse, with my dog.
Mike from Oz,
Its refreshing to read your words on here. It is a reminder there are hood decent minded men out there who. I wish you the best in all.
Peanut,
I deleted my FB page in 2010. It was so refreshing. Ive let go of people who weren’t really my friends this last year and found myself kind of uncomfortable in the transition of being me. I have found though as ive opened up to chatting to people I probably wouldnt have before there really is alot of nice people out here. I get out alot for my job so ive found sometimes a smile or a hello to someone ive seen before but maybe never talked to starts an interesting conversation even if its just surface. Honestly ive been through alot w men and the before mentioned “friends” the last couple years and im healing from those things so im cautious about people now. I understand some of what you’re experiencing. Really you are healing from alot so its hard to invest yourself right now but im sure as you continue to heal you will clear up w the people issues. All the best.
Mike from Oz,
Lol, its been a long day. I missed many words. Lets try again. 🙂 Its refreshing to read your words on here. It is a reminder there are good decent minded men out there who want to be healthy for themselves. I wish you the best in all.
Someone mentioned on another post (im paraphrasing) about being relieved to be able to stop having to be responsible for themselves when they were in a relationship. I realized I really held onto wanting my ex to be who he was in the beginning because I wanted to be able to do the same because he was so great at first. I guess im just tired. Ive taken care of myself without much support since I was a teenager and I just wanted to rest. I learned thats not a job you can outsource because I almost lost it with what I went through with that man. But that low brought me here and to a place for me to learn to be healthier for myself. I keep taking it day by day.
I have to be my own friend, best friend, lover, teacher, boyfriend, instructor, counselor, therapist, mommy, daddy, everything…I have to be it all to me.
Everything I’m looking for outside is within to cultivate.
fuck.
I had no idea being human was a heady, full-time job.
But I won’t be my own doctor/dentist. I’ll leave that to the professionals (I have a tooth I’m about to rip out/THE PAIN). I called a dentist.
I won’t be my own gynecologist either…that would be way weird. And dangerous.
that and physically impossible
Peanut: “I have to be my own friend, best friend, lover, teacher, boyfriend, instructor, counselor, therapist, mommy, daddy, everything…”
This isn’t entirely accurate I think. It’s rather that in the past, we’ve chosen “friends”, “lovers”, “teachers” and the like who substracted from our lives instead of adding to it. This is why we were worse off with those people than without them. We just didn’t realize it.
Getting rid of them means LESS work and pain for us, not more. And we’ll be open to others who can actually make our lives easier.
Good luck with the dentist!
Peanut, I agree about how frickin hard it is to be human. Maybe you’ll like this poem about the topic, my favorite poem in fact, from Rumi (one of those spiritual teachers I mentioned earlier).
I loved this poem, Wiser, thanks for sharing. I studied Omar Khayyam at university – another Persian poet I adore. Thanks for your wisdom, as usual.
Joy,
Oh boy! He sounds terrified of any sort of commitment, due to enormous trust issues! What a roller coaster!
You did right by going NC. This guy will continue to remain in fear, for a long time to come.
What were the initial red flags you mentioned?
Please ignore, as he is a waste of time, and is a total mind fuck!
Thank you Allison, you are right he has an enormous fear of any type of commitment, which shows just in any aspect of his life. ( he still lives with his parents, altho it’s a separted flat – but still at age 34, I know, I know, yikes)
The inital red flags were the initial huuuge desire to seduce me in any way, he was too nice to begin with, big talk, big plans for the future, but the biggest red flag of all was when he told me he doesn’t really know what he wants, does he or does he not want a relationship but adding hat he wants us to meet eachother and take it slow. And I agreed to that thinking it was just the begining (first month), let’s give it a go and take it slow.
The other red flag was when about 4 persons came up to me and told me to not get my hopes up with him, that it is just not going to work out, and that I should never blame myself. They kept saying ‘ it’s not you, it’s him’! But I also ignored that, but I knew they were right.
The funny thing is, I played cool all along, I never ever contacted him first, which drove him crazy. I made sure I was not available always when he wanted, I made sure not to answer immediately when he calls, I was living my life and not putting him at the center of mine. But when emotions got involved I started to get jealous with every right ( that’s another red flag – other women all around), I started to show I care and that started to make him lose interest ofc.
The blowing hot and cold, the not knowing what he wants, his innability to show any type of emotions except of his big and really seducing charm, the pursuing of ‘ we have such a amazing time together, I enjoy so much, I don’t want to ever lose you, yada, yada’ talk but we are not in a commited relationship, all the mixed signals, actions and words, oh I could go on.
He actually sent me a message this morning, sending a picture of something and a smiley face. I know he went on a trip and is probably something funny, I didn’t opet it nor do I want to. But I mean, he just acts as if nothing is wrong, or to say, we are now such good friends and he has every right to contact me and act like everything is normal and okay. He has actually no, but I really mean no knowledge or sense about what he did, and how I feel, and this whole situation. I sometimes really feel his immaturity, but most of all lack of feeling of respect towards other. In his eyes he is the so innocent and never ever wanted to do any harm… Oh please.
Joy,
First thing: BLOCK ALL FROMS OF CONTACT
Much of your description reminds me of the ex, minus the living situation.
Mine was quite charming, and now if I meet someone who is too comfortable upon meeting, I back away – If they’re doing it with me, they’re doing it with many others.
Who were these people that warned you, and why??? That’s odd!
Dear Allison and Joy
This sounds like the EUM I dated, to a tee. “He sounds terrified of any sort of commitment, due to enormous trust issues!”
I remember someone saying to me “those who are hurting, generally also hurt others.”
Joy, please keep up with the NC. These men are only trouble, or more accurately as Allison says – a total mind fuck.
And as Mike says – we must remember we dodged a bullet (Mike from Aus, as others are expressing above, I am also really enjoy your male perspective).
Second last line typo – enjoying. Sorry!
@Love from Nel
Thank you Nel, I am keeping with the NC. I struggled today after receiving his message, but in the end I didn’t even opet it nor will I ever. I caught myself thinking and worrying about what HE thinks, I snapped out of it, why in the world would I be worried about what he thinks? I don’t give a damn!
I realised in the end, I have every right to feel and be offended by him contacting me. It just shows how RUDE and SELFISH he is. He is so used to getting away with anything, and I have let him treat me this way, letting him play this way, so he is expecting that this time also and he does this to amuse HIMSELF. Nothing more, nothing less. But this time I AM NOT PLAYING THAT GAME, I am done.
I am bumping into this conversation – my ex-eum is very much like Joy and LoveFromNel’s … but now all of sudden he is moving in with his separated gf of just a few months. How can someone who is EU do that? I don’t understand. But then my guess is she is just as messed up as him. For someone scared of commitment I don’t get how moving in with someone wouldn’t scare the crap out of them? But then again, moving in together probably means something entirely different to me then someone like him.
It’s funny, I used to spend countless hours on Facebook trolling through pictures lamenting how I was so inadequate to all these people with such “vibrant” lives.
Now? I spend countless hours trolling through people’s pictures judging them and thanking the high heavens I am not like these assholes.
Peanut, Your comment struck me this way: Whether trolling effbook to confirm a sense of inadequacy, or trolling effbook to bolster a need to feel better than other (imaginary)people, both activities are very self sabotaging. This is because either way you stay focussed on your perception of others in relation to yourself and with effbook these ‘others’ -their posted actions and feelings, the moments illustrated in static ‘pics’/videos posts- reside entirely in your imagination. So in this way effbook is used by you in order to distract yourself or even down right avoid keeping your focus on *you* and staying emotionally available to yourself.
p.s. you’re no doubt aware that there are healthier, more productive and certainly more self sustaining ways to spend hours on end!
Lizzp,
So true about effbook. Granted I’m older what I fail to see how anyone can waste soooo much time on that activity. I’ts so false and phony as people try to present themselves in the best light possible. And why would you post every private thing you do? Who cares?
Furry White Dogs,
Skeletor is Love is a visual pops arts orgy. So rad. Such a fan.
And you know it gets plenty of “likes” (I know it gets mine), thousands in fact.
I guess you just have to get in where you fit in.
I keep going to people, places, and things I hate and feel angry all the time because I hate everything. What a weird little world I put myself in sometimes.
It’s like realizing you’re half way through a semester failing a class you’ve already taken and made a B in. (yes this happened to me recently/yesterday.) And going, “Hmm. I don’t have to be here.”
Nel,
I am so happy to hear you have found comfort in a cozy home and with your pup!
Made me smile and feel warm in side. Needed that 🙂
xx
Thanks so much, Peanut. We are slowly settling in. I hope you are doing OK too. So pleased to hear that your art has been hung – what a wonderful achievement. How wonderful that you’re created something in this world. It reminds me that I need to be more creatively productive in this short time we’re on this Earth. Big hugs xoxo
I want out of something but I can’t seem to stay out if it, several attempts later (NC 5 weeks over Xmas) I must seem like a crazy woman! He’s supposed to be going home in October (expat) but he let drop into conversation that he may still be around next year…I thought that was my out! My point of no return…what do I do now?
I love him but he doesn’t want my love, nor does he deserve it. I feel stuck in this stupid relationship with this EU man who has worn my down. I’m not strong enough to stay away for good and I don’t know what to do. I know that the answer is that no one can do it for me, and that I need to be stronger…but I’m weak because of this relationship, because I’m unhappy. I wish I’d never met him, I wish I could meet a nice guy…I know that rebound is not a great concept, but I think that in my case it would be an out for me, a tangible reason to let go for good, someone else to hold onto…I know that’s pathetic isn’t it!
Mel,
I think that if you continue to use the excuse that you’re weak, then you will be.
You know there is no future (proximity and commitment issues) so why would you stick around and put yourself through this. If you wish to make yourself feel more devalued, then keep it going with this dude!
I would look at your own EU issues because if you were emotionally available, you wouldn’t give him the time of day.
I know, you’re right Allison, can I say in my defence though, that loneliness (for love) can lead you to make stupid choices, and I stupidly keep making them. He is depressed and unhappy in his life and of course all i want to do is love him more…fix him, not even in a selfish ‘if I show him my love, he’ll love me back’ kind of way….I just love him and I figure that oh well, at least I can feel when this is finally over, that I gave 150% and I was the best person that I could be. Although I’m probably not really showing him ‘my best person’ am I? I’m showing him that I’m someone without Boundaries, someone that has no love for themselves……a girl who’ll accept crumbs!
Hi Mel, please read Nat’s posts on being a Florence Nightingale fixer. It is often what has led many of us here. It is not your responsibility to ‘fix’ these men. I dated a guy who was depressed and unhappy too. I thought I could make it all better. I just ended up getting very, very hurt. These symptoms (depression, unhappiness) can explain their behaviour but do not excuse it. You are not responsible for anyone else, and only you have the power to leave. Take care of you in this situation, and he needs to own his own. And also, you don’t need a rebound to get over this guy. What do you love doing? Walking your dog? Going to the beach? Reading? Going to the movies? Eating pizza and icecream and Chinese food? Baking your own crumpets? Whatever it is, focus on you and what you enjoy. You don’t need someone else to bring you happiness or worth. That comes from within. Stay strong, and keep reading on here. It will help.
And Mel, I wanted to say that I can recognise a version of myself (from a few years ago) in your words. Yes, I know that loneliness for love can lead to poor choices. But this is just excusing your decisions, and is often a sign of emotional unavailability in you. You must be happy within, and have a strong sense of your own worth, before you can expect someone else to respect you, and for you to be able to have a healthy relationship guided by the principles of love, care, trust and respect.
Thank you both for your time and I appreciate the advice…I feel paralysed and a little bit broken. A massive emotional investment in this Man has taken its toll on my emotional state. I’ve finished with men before and moved on normally…this one has a particular hold. Can’t he feel the love in my kiss, in my touch? He seems oblivious. I’m starting to dislike him, slowly but surely. Maybe it’s a natural disconnection that’s taking place, maybe my own self preservation skills are coming into play. I’m making a conscious effort to limit messaging and contact in the hope things will just fizzle out, without dramatics, without anyone having to be the dumper…or the dumped! Wish me luck?
Mel, I think you would do wonders for your self-esteem if you made a conscious choice to end this dysfunctional and unsatisfying relationship in a dignified, mature manner instead of just letting it “fizzle” out. He sounds more like an unhappy EU than an AC, so you can do this with care and respect for him as well as yourself, openly and honestly. Fizzling always feels horrible, because it means the other person didn’t give enough of a damn to end things properly. The emotional pain and humiliation caused by callous or indifferent breakups is a theme that runs all through BR.
Don’t just “hang in there” endlessly either. Two unhappy people staying in a relationship because they’re both afraid to let go is an awful dynamic. And don’t look for a rebound – that’s called ‘using somebody.’ When men do that to women here, we’re all rightly outraged.
I spent 15 years married to a man who was chronically unhappy and depressed. I felt it was my job to “make him happy” and I was failing as a wife because nothing I did helped. Getting out of that marriage was the best thing for both of us. My mother gave me this piece of advice when I was young and I wish I’d listened to it sooner: “Never be with a man you feel sorry for.”
Thank you Wiser, I very much like that advise your mother gave, wise words! I’m hoping to be out of this by Easter. That’s the plan anyway! The problem for me is not getting out, but staying out…..
Love,
So true!
Mel,
I was the queen of “stupid choices.” But, staying in an empty ‘relationship’ is even more lonely and devaluing, than not being in one.
You can’t fix anyone. You do not have the power. Only he can fix himself, and he has to want to. I would wonder, why you so want someone that seems to be so damaged. Please consider that.
I would also look into co-dependency, as this is more about you, than him. CODA may be able to help, and I believe it is international and free.
Good luck!
Mel,
Tell him that this relationship isn’t working for you and why. Since he isn’t there, you could send him an email (I imagine distance is one of the issues). Then it’s over and you cease contact. It’s really that simple.
I can’t believe it, but today is NC day #44! I saw him running a few days ago and in the past I would have stopped, but he just watched my car disappear, such an empowering feeling. I pulled into the library of the town we live in a few days ago and he was in front of me, so I did a u-turn and left.Even though some days are so hard and I still miss him, I’m focusing on the fact that he hurt me and I’m worth so much more than the crumbs he gave me! See, with him it wasn’t just the beginning of the relationship that was good. He would run hot and cold with me the whole time. He would be amazing and then back away, guess it was fear, and when he felt like he was losing me, he would turn on full steam again! He’s 13 years older than me and I noticed he has this issue with aging. Can you imagine if I stayed with this man? He would be constantly looking for a younger girl, sigh…not a way to live! He’s extremely active and takes care of his body, but when I saw him the other day running, he looked like an old sourpuss! Lol! I’m starting to feel myself again and realize that he is just an unhappy man and there was nothing wrong with me! I’ve gotten my hair highlighted and I’m exercising and eating organically. I joined meet up and last week during a hike I talked to a super cute guy MY AGE and he actually talked to me too! I still need to work on my self esteem and realize there are men out there that will be interested in me, even if we are the same age and are honest, genuine, and real and not a fake coward like my ex!
Oh Wendy, 44 day of NC for me too. I thought I was getting better after a month. Then all of sudden I started crying every day and have been for two weeks. In the restroom at work. In the shower and before going to bed. Sometimes a little cry, sometimes a heart wrenching sob. Reminds me my first days after breakup. Could this be now a depression stage of the grief? Which hopefully will turn soon into acceptance. Grief is not a steady process. I do go among all the things all over again sometimes. Disbelief, denial, shock, rage, depression, acceptance. I read that with time the cycling becomes milder and milder and then finally it’s acceptance. I thought I would be better after 2 months almost… ( 1 year relationship). No. And also my work is affected. Actually I feel like changing my career. I am moving to another apartment and want to change a job too. I just want to change everything. Does anyone else have these feelings? Starting from the scratch? From a fresh start? I can’t recognize myself. Changed for so much better. Respectful of myself. Boundaries with friends even. Affirmative talk and boosting self-esteem. Yet at times like these past two weeks I feel how much hurt I have been through and feel like I am so hurt and damaged and that my worth took such a blow that I will never recover.
Sofia – just wanted to say that it takes longer then 2 months. And you will recycle through the grief cycles. Its normal. You can’t rush healing … I’ve been NC for 6 months and I am not over it all yet and was hoping I would be. Just be patient with yourself, journal and read posts here at BR.
Thank you, lynn. This gives me hope. Would you say after 6 months you are better than after 2 months? Much better or just a bit? The pain is so unbearable sometimes. I have been feeling like contacting him every day. It is so hard. Has your guy contacted you? There has been complete NC for us.
Sofia – Today is day 64 of NC for me and it does get better. I still do have ups & downs but it is different. I too had a relationship for a year which was full of craziness & instability.
It started December of 2012 and in the begining of February 2013 he had broken up with me. Then we got back together on Valentine’s Day 2013 but instead of things getting better they got worst. I kept on holding on to the first 2-3 months when things were amazing. Hoping that things would go back but they didn’t, he blew hot and cold, then would make plans and brake them. Also threw a lot of bread crumbs and I kept on hoping it would go back to at least a slice??
Kind of knew I’d never get the whole loaf again so I broke it off in October 2013. We started again in November and the last time I saw him was in December 2013. He had actually moved away anyways so I just wanted him to be in contact to see what to do next. He did contact me on and off but it started taking longer, the last time it took 6 days. I told him straight out if you care about me you need to contact me every couple of days. He apologized and said he understood then proceeded to stay in contact every couple of days. That only lasted a month then suddenly nothing for 18 days WTF!!??. There was no longer any excuse because even though you shouldn’t have to spell things out to someone who supposedly cares about you, I still had. So I did not respond, thought he’d keep on trying since that was February 12, 2013. Fully expected an apology and another try at reaching out to me on February 14 (Valentine’s Day). It did not happen. So it has been 46 days since the last time he threw the bread crumbs and 64 days since I went NC.
I’m so glad I found BR, all the amazing articles and the wonderful people that share comments on here. It does help tremendously. Thanks to all of you from the bottom of my heart. =)
JS, he is an AC for sure. Mine was decent enough for never doing disappearing acts. Always contacted daily. There was consistency and predictability. But there was no progression or commitment. He broke off with me decently, face to face, no disappearing act. Your case: did you formally break up or he disappeared? You both need to break up because I am afraid when he contacts you it will resume. There needs to be a finalization. Seems like things are not finished. But a great job – 64 days NC!! Today is my day 57 ( I miscalculated about 44 – 3 days ago. Yay! ). Let’s see how it goes. It’s amazing the ups and downs. Half of a day – I feel I am over him. Then something triggers and I have tears in my eyes or full blown sobbing in my car or shower. Then all over again. Up and down, cycling and recycling. Amazing process.
Hi Sofia,
Yes a Narcissistic AC at that…Ugh!
No we never “officially broke up” but it doesn’t really matter anymore. He had not contacted me for 18 days so when he did I did not respond. Since I did not respond to his bread crumbs, he stopped trying. Not only that but when he had contacted me was 02/12. So he didn’t even bother with Valentine’s Day 2 days later. Started seeing my therapist again today, it had been a year since I had seen her last.
Sometimes a “break up” or closure never actually happens. I just let him go first and then he did the same. We disappeared on each other I suppose. If I had replied on that 18th day maybe he would still be around but on his terms. His terms were all about him, I think he lost respect for me and started treating me like “The fallback girl”.
Anyway Congrats on your “57th” day.
Today is day 65 for me.. =)
Still have ups and downs myself btw but it’s definitely a lot better.
JS, true, there is no closure really for me even after a formal, “decent” breakup because I have been, or rather HAD BEEN twisting my brains, trying to figure out what exactly drove him away: noncommitment, fell out of love, another woman, or whatever else. Now though, I came to terms (almost I think) that I have to believe what he said, that I am not the right person for him and he is just not committed. It is what it is. I think if I haven’t had an official breakup I would never think it’s over. Maybe you two need to talk and break it off formally so that the grieving process and moving on can start? Otherwise, either or both will be tempted to get back into it because it’s still “there.”
Sofia – yes I am in a much better place. But I do still carry some hurt around. He has contacted me 4 times. I don’t ask anyone anything about him but a friend of mine felt the need to tell me that he is planning on moving in with his separated gf (Of only a few months) soon and this has put me back a little. It hurts to think of him going home to her (when I wanted him to come home to me) and so on….but he’s classic EUM and it will blow up. I think she is co-dependent and can’t be alone. I also know that he chases passion – and that can only last so long. He told me that something was missing with us. The missing is him…but he would say it was passion. He felt like he should always want to kiss me when he looked at me and want to have sex with me all the time. I said this a lot on here. lol but I told him that this isn’t the notebook and that I don’t want to kiss him every time I look at him. But he thinks love should be like the movies. I was very attached to him – and I can say now that I don’t want to be with him and I don’t think I necessarily miss him…but I miss the companionship, the ability to text someone and we would immediately go do something, physical intimacy. I still get nostalgic – but I have to bring myself back to reality because who he truly is is a selfish person who has no empathy, always his agenda, and has no moral compass. I should have really had issue with things he did in his past, the way he treats his mom (He hates her) and other things but I made excuses, was betting on potential and really wanted him to be someone he just can’t be. Its just hard to let it all go when I had such high hopes for us and I thought he would always be in my life. He still thinks we can be friends like we used to be but at this point I can’t be his friend especially if he is moving in with someone.
lynn, I thought I wrote what you wrote! My ex said and did similar things. When he was breaking up with me he said,”Something is missing. You are a great person, a beautiful woman, but something is missing. you can have anybody else and you will find someone better than me.” Only later I started realizing (thanks to this board, the people here and many books I have read), that something missing is Him. He was happy with me just one month before the breakup, supposedly anyway. Then, once there was an ultimatum we are together or not, he said that “something was missing and he was not committed.” In a way, I sometimes think I broke up myself indirectly. I didn’t have the guts to cut the tie, so I “risked” it so to speak, or actually provoked breaking up (and I grieved myself for couple weeks before because I felt we were done). So I knew if I asked the final and ultimate question he would be out. He won’t contact me. I have that confidence. Not sure why I am so confident. Part of him, although he is EU, he has dignity and the rightness about him. He has his pride and believes he made the right decision. And particularly if he found someone else, he won’t be contacting me. Your ex is an AC besides an EUM because he is not respecting your space and healing and contacted your 4 times. AND he is moving with someone else but contacting you. Why? I see why you don’t want to be with him yourself anymore. It’s hard to respect someone like that. Who is with another woman yet keeps contacting his ex. He should make up his mind. And I agree with you, considering how he was with you and is with her, I don’t think he will last with her. I started thinking, these EUMs, who do fall for us, in their own ways, then they lose us and try to make up and show themselves and the world that they can do it and move in with a rebound person only to realize something is still missing even with that person. That “something is missing” is him. Your ex or mine. Their inability to attach. The fear. I hear you about lack of empathy. I felt like my ex lacked empathy! He couldn’t sympathize with anything I discussed. For instance, my friend got divorced and going through really tough times getting back to work and leaving work for sick days for her toddler all the time, who just started a daycare and gets sick all the time. I was in that situation before. I know how hard it is for a single mom with a young child. He would brush it off saying, “why do you care, they are million of people like that. That’s life.” Or I got worried about my friend doing biopsy on a suspicious mole. Got really worried. He said I was being negative and I shouldn’t worry. What amazes me that only now that i think about it, he displayed no strong emotions, ever, whether positive or negative. It’s neutral or if positive, it is subdued by excess humor/sarcasm. If negative, it’s very controlled to the point of coldness and sharpness and shutting down. It’ s like these people can’t fully shown their emotions. My ex said he wanted to be friends with me but understands I can’t now (the conversation during the breakup ), and he said, “that’s not last time we see each other, we will see each other in couple months.” So about now – April he would contact, according to him. Actually, he said, “Call me whenever you want.” I never contacted him. Like I said, I have a feeling he won’t contact me. I will certainly announce this on the board if he does. But it makes it “easier” for me , that he won’t. I think he won’t out of the respect for me and because he is not interested. And probably he has someone else already. I don’t share any common friends with him and I have no Facebook. I have no clue what he is up to. Which again, makes it “easier,” if you can say that. lynn, looks like our feelings about EUM are really similar. I think you are tormented way more though because for one, he won’t leave you alone ( I had an AC like that – he wouldn’t leave me alone ever for years) and secondly, you know he is with someone else. It must be painful. I am in pain just thinking he might be with someone. However, why should I care? LIke my friend said, ” I don’t care with whom my ex is. There is no one like this one (herself).” I like that. Need to repeat to myself that about myself.
Sofia – It does hurt to know he’s with someone else…but knowing some of what I know about her and what I know about him – they both are EU. And its just a matter of time until it falls apart. My counselor told me last night that he is very emotionally immature and destructive. He said they are probably meant for each other – since they both don’t deal with their emotions. I focus too much on his actions and my counselor explained to me its because I am a loyal friend – and even though I am hurt I still look at what he’s doing and care as a loyal friend. He’s right…I am loyal and care too much. But I have to stop. Its not my life.
when he broke up with me…he told me that something was missing, and that he sees us as great friends and that hopefully in the future I would see he was doing this for me. That I deserve better. He also told me that I was seeking affection one night and he just didn’t want to give it which prompted him to break up with me…but this is his issue. I asked my married friends if they want to be affectionate etc with their spouse all the time – they said no way…and told me that he is very unrealistic. The difference between your ex and mine – is that a month after we broke up he was already trying to get me to meet him for a movie. He would say ‘its just a movie, its not like we are sitting in one of our homes alone’. Over and over again until I finally gave in. That lead to us falling into fwb and hanging out a lot again. I think I thought he was realizing he made a mistake – but really it was all about him getting free sex and someone to listen to him. I think he cared for me in the best way he knew how. But its not enough.
I am friends with his ex wife and she told me the same thing we both said – what missing is him and he will never get it. I don’t want to be like that. I want to find someone healthy. And I need to remind myself all the time that my ex-EU will NEVER change.
Lynn, exactly what happened to me: “when he broke up with me…he told me that something was missing, and that he sees us as great friends and that hopefully in the future I would see he was doing this for me. That I deserve better. …” Did you know it was coming or was it a surprise? See, with my ex, I knew throughout he was not sure about me and our relationship, which exponentially and regularly, increased my fears and insecurities that the relationship would end anytime. I clung more, he pulled away more. If I had been in the same situation now, I would have bailed out at the 2nd if not 1st notice of “I am not sure about us or this relationship” (6 months or more into the relationship).
Another thing, it’s good that you know what his ex-wife is saying. I wish I knew what his ex-gfs are saying about him. I have a gut feeling they went through a similar breakup. Actually, without even knowing, he told me bluntly himself that the first relationship didn’t work out because, “we are too different, feelings changed, she wanted me to move in and I didn’t feel comfortable.” Exactly the same 4 reasons he told me why he can’t commit to me ( I was not asking about marriage or moving in, just wanted reassurance we are into it together at a year mark). About another gf he said a similar thing, not ready, not committed, not the right person. So I think it’s really all the same pattern. And you are right about your ex. It will blow up, particularly you know both of them and you know his history from your own experience and that of his ex-wife.
Sometimes, I think, if it is true, that this kind of individuals can’t find that something missing in the other person, then, you can just really feel sorry for them, right? I can’t imagine not being able to connect with someone.
Because our stories are similar a bit, have you felt like you connected with your EU-ex?I felt like I never did. Like there was such a thick high wall he built around himself that I could never break through it. After a year I still didn’t feel the intimacy and the comfort. Yes, there was finally some comfort associated with familiarity, but not comfort and closeness you would expect in a long-term relationship. I had the synergy and intimacy with others before. I know how it feels. With him I could never feel it although I was open and honest with him. After the breakup I kept wondering if it was me not being a match for him or was it because He himself could not connect to me or anybody? So confusing. Now though, I don’t try to figure it out anymore. I just give up because I don’t know what it was really, what was the reason for the breakup.
Yes, your ex is different. Mine won’t contact me even after 2 months of NC (he said we will meet/talk in couple months. he thinks I will be more equipped to talk as friends in couple months after the breakup). I just had a feeling because I know how he is, he won’t. He takes his word seriously. It is over – it’s over. That’s why makes me think he doesn’t qualify for any of the labels such EU or AC, but still EU he is. Just hard to put this label on someone so nice in a casual, exclusive, yet not committed relationship. Like he played all the cards rights, but bailed out eventually when things got really serious. I can’t imagine if he didn’t leave me alone like yours. It would have been extremely hard for me to move on. So I am glad my ex is determined. I wouldn’t be able to grieve and heal properly if he contacted me after the breakup. Even now, if he does contact, it will be disturbing. I can’t be his friend yet. I can’t hear if he is dating someone. So it’s better if I don’t hear from him at all for sometime. Or forever.
sofia – that is a good question about feeling like we connected…I think he let me in as far as he would let me in. We both knew each other extremely well we could finish each other’s sentences. When we were together, he said that he was in the relationship 75%…he was never good with anything to do with emotions…and when I would be upset about something he didn’t really know how to handle it. And would always say ‘you know me, I don’t know how to deal with this.’ He uses sarcasm alot…which gets old and can be hurtful. After we broke up and I gave in to hanging out I told him one day that I needed a week’s break from him as I still wanted more and he used that in the future saying stuff like ‘as long as I don’t get a text saying you can’t see me for 2 months…’ I am not sure if I ever felt like I was connected with him emotionally…there was always an underlying doubt that he wasn’t listening to me the way I listen to him…even though he said he was and sometimes I felt like I was bothering him when I would want to call him and tell himself but that goes back to him listening intently and maybe was my issue too…and I was always doubtful of his feelings when we were together because of past issues we had…but I thought maybe he had changed. Yea right!
His ex wife and I have also agreed that he thinks love should be like the movies…i realized last night that i am not sure I even have feelings for him anymore…I just have feelings for the rejection and nostalgia and dealing with some illusions I still have of him. I think I am finally starting to accept that he is part of my past.
But who knows…my feelings could all recycle tomorrow…you just never know and have to ride it….
and I think I wanted it to work so much that I made excuses to myself about him…I knew him, the real him…and somehow decided to accept him but also was betting on potential.
sofia – I just re-read this post again from Susan Elliott’s website…I thought it might be good for you t read.
Lynn, our exes are very similar. I read the book (actually still reading it). Thank you!
Well, exactly – I too felt like I couldn’t call him extra time. Couldn’t reveal my emotions extra time (not about us, about some issue on my mind, my reaction to some situation about my friends, or work , or family). I found myself restraining from showing my emotions to him because he would respond with any of the following: 1. cold rationality. 2. sarcasm ( oh yes, you mention sarcasm in your ex – mine was FULL OF IT – nonstop. Now, I am sarcastic too. But appropriately. When it’s about somebody’s feelings, important events in life, I put my sarcasm far away)., or he would just display no empathy. Very even. Or opinionated. But never emotional really. Which I guess men are not, but his reaction to my reaction made me hide my emotions. I felt I was censoring myself almost every time I spoke to him about my strong feelings or opinions about something. See, things like this keep you distant from them. Or rather, their behavior keeps you distant from them. How can you get close to someone if they keep barriers high and make you feel uncomfortable expressing your true self. I do it with my friends, I did it with my other exes and I am always honest and blunt person. And I was with him but because he never paid me back with the same and criticized, teased, laughed at me, I gradually and progressively curbed myself, my expressions, which I have never done in my life. You bring up a good point , Lynn.. you said you don’t think you care for him anymore (although that might change tomorrow – I KNOW THE FEELING), but really, we need to stop and think … why do we care about a person who is a stranger to us, to our world, to our feelings. How can we care about someone who is not tuned into us like we would like them to be tuned in. I need to think about it and realize like you did, that what I am missing and crying about is not HE , but my lost hopes, the planning for a long-term serious relationship, intimacy building, partnership building I had for us and it all crashed. But did it crash? I saw it’s coming. Like you ( a lot of things you say in your posts I can relate) I think I am paining over the rejection, nostalgia of the memories and the illusions I had for us. Truly, stripping all the falsities around us – ask yourself, as I am asking myself now – do YOU see this person as a long-term/life term partner? I remember a friend of mine, happily married for 15 years, told me, “you know if the person you are with is good for you and to you. if at the end of a long day/week, he/she is the ONE with whom you want to cuddle on a sofa, put your head on their chest , and tell him/her all about it, cry it out maybe, tell all your fears, insecurities, frustrations, and hope. Someone you can hide from the world with temporarily, seek protection and safety. Someone with whom you are not afraid that you will be judged for your weaknesses. Who will accept you the way you are.” Is your ex a person like that? Mine is not. I can tell it without thinking. I could say it at any point of our relationship. Amazing how we spend then so much energy trying to get over people, whom we don’t even want. What we are sad about is realizing we are losing our former selves and are renewing and reborn for the better. Again, this friend of mine, who is a psychologist, she said, ” I don’t think you are crying over him .” When i told her that I still cry after 2 months. She said, “you are crying over everything, you are being reborn. The end of the old. The birth of the new. It is scary and sad – every transition is , but that’s what it is.” All for the better. For the wiser, confident, happier us, Lynn!
Sofia – he felt like home to me. He was the one that I wanted to go home to, cuddle with (which we did often) and I did lay my head on his stomach…but yea, the telling him everything part, that didn’t happen a lot. He talks alot…so I listeneds to him alot. Maybe he was always listening to me…and I was insecure about it, but he needed to act like it too you know? I always felt accepted by him, never judged. I think in some ways he actually got a kick out of who I am and my fun personality. I was heavier during our time then I am now, and he would always tell me that he had no issue with my body when I would ask etc…and I truly believed him. I think that made it harder for me too – I finally had found someone who I felt very comfortable with, he accepted me for who I am….but he’s missing other key components that make a long term healthy relationship. Because I thought he would change I think I thought he would make a good long term partner…but that’s not true. I look back and he really didn’t make my life better. Yea, I definitely made his life better…but he didn’t mine. I didn’t want to be a better person because of him, I actually probably picked up some of his bad habits…who knows. I just know that I enjoyed thinking that I had found my best friend to marry. But he wasn’t my best friend….he didn’t have my best interest at heart like I had his….it was all about him.
Lynn, yes, feelings recycle and change tomorrow. Right now I feel good and think why he is even on the pedestal? What was so good about him besides the superficial? What value did he bring to me and my daughter? I have a double responsibility to care for my daughter’s well being and my own. This person never had even a one full foot in the door as far as his relationship went with my daughter and me. That was a red flag I avoided. He even said at the breakup that he couldn’t take the responsibility for the two of us. “Now, there will be 3 people living together, imagine that, I can’t handle that.” How can I and could be crying over a person like that? He didn’t want my daughter and me. He is not the person for us. Period. I do hope I will continue feeling this way. Maybe a good shift happened finally and it’s not just a moment. I feel better now. Why I need a person who doesn’t want me and my daughter?
I see you are saying that your ex was feeling like home to you. You felt cozy with him. I didn’t with mine. I opened up my whole being but he kept withholding his true self. So I never felt comfortable with him. Never found about him. I said that to become closer, we need to spend more time together, to get to know each other. But he limited our time together as much as possible. There was never a foundation to develop intimacy because he ran away as soon as I got too close. It must be very hard for you because you did feel comfortable with him. That’s hard to lose. But yet, something was missing. That’s something is He. These people can’t connect on a deeper level. Just can’t.
Wendy,
I am so happy for you! You sound awesome. It does get easier, right? For us being so close to them, it just takes a little longer because every encounter always set us back, but now it’s empowering! So great!
Glad you’re out and about. Running, joining meetups and talking to other guys. You deserve more and now you have all this new knowledge about EUMs and ACs and you will set boundaries and be aware of red flags and not accept any less than what you deserve!
Best to you!
There IS NOTHING WRONG with you, Wendy. He is a player… not afraid. Find the man who wants you!
I read this post and was reminded of the sadness of trying to cling to those first few months and all the future faking that instilled such hope in me. Can anyone tell me if it is normal to suddenly feel intense rage towards an exAC who I have had nothing to do with since last November? I know I should be over it, but for some unknown reason I am so angry. It’s not normal for me to be so angry. Where is it coming from? Its over, he’s gone and I’ve moved on, but right now I want to hurt him (metaphorically speaking. How dare he be happy when I fell to bits. Is this just another sign that I’m stuck? I don’t want to be stuck, I want to be free. A part of this post that really got to me was that I think I did see him as “the long-awaited reward for all of [my] trauma” is that why I’m angry? Is it me or is he a using, manipulative b—–d who deserves my anger?
Lilly,
Perhaps, you feel rage because you know it’s over. The rage also indicates that you’re still not over him, and is another step towards moving forward.
Please don’t waste too much time in the rage stage. It only takes away from you, and prevents you from moving forward and getting healthy.
The best revenge is living well.
Live well.
If one person allows themselves to choke on rage, and the other skips off into the future – who is the “winner”.
This week I’ve been looking at furniture making courses. For years I’ve thought I’d love to make something with my hands. I actually have custom built furniture which I designed and had others made. Being your typical white colour worker all I produce is emails.
Now I imagine the things I could make – I have the time. So why not? A nice hobby.
Imagining myself this time year with some new skills gives my some comfort.
Put the focus on your future.
Try this article:
helping.
A good article Mike. It helps to interrupt those negative ‘woe is me, I’m no good, what’s wrong with me, it must be my fault’ obsessing thoughts.
It took me a while to break that negative litany running through my head.
Every now and then I start to slip back into blaming me mode but I snap out of it pretty quickly these days.
I didn’t turn him into an EUM/AC, I can only be responsible for who I am and what I do, not perfect but who is.
Hi Mike, also from Australia. Me, it’s pottery 🙂
Allison,
I so appreciate all your responses to me. I suspect the rage does indicate I’m still not over him, but maybe it is a step in the right direction. I’ve had little moments when I’ve been angry, but then swiftly became depressed again. Right now I desperately want him to be the unhappiest person on the planet (sorry, I can’t help it). I want him to feel just a little of what I went through knowing all the while that none of it mattered to him. That’s a bitter pill to swallow. Time to write out my feelings I think.
Lilly,
Repressing your anger is like sweeping dirt under the carpet. Sooner or later it is going to accumulate to the point that it cannot be hidden anymore – even if you get the biggest and heaviest carpet to cover it up. This is one crucial lesson I learned last year – acknowledging my anger but ensuring it does not consume me.
For the first eighteen years of my life, on a regular basis, I heard my parents either screaming at me & my siblings or arguing with one another. Besides providing the bare minimum food, shelter, and clothing for us, they did not really pay attention to us. I am grateful for what they provided. Still I especially remember the severe distress I felt the week I was preparing applications for Yale and Harvard, and all I could hear my parents do is hurl accusations and abuses at one another. Instead of following their footsteps, I grew more and more detached from my emotions. I became an expert at repressing my anger & turning to my work for solace. In the Mariana Trench of my psyche, I buried feelings of anger towards my parents for their crumbly support and care. I am no longer angry at them and give them no credit for the things I did on my own. It took a lot of effort to reach this point.
To make sense of this emotion, I actually had to look up definitions of anger. If anger is a feeling of annoyance or displeasure at an imagined or real wrongdoing, then I had to ask myself three questions regarding my last relationship (1) How was I wronged or disrespected by the ex? (2) How did I wrong or hurt myself? (3) How did I wrong or disrespect him? Please see, regardless of the answers to Question 3 do *not* blame yourself for his bad behavior. In answering question 3, I actually saw that I had not disrespected him – maybe frustrated him by not acting like a doormat.
It might be helpful for you to write down these questions in three columns and answer them. By doing so, I was able to understand the reasons underlying my anger and assign appropriate responsibility to both of us for the end of the relationship and for the grief it brought into my life.
Sometimes I still feel sparks of anger at him for his weaselly behavior but no longer a raging bonfire. This quotation – “Holding onto anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die” – made me realize that after a certain point it is self-destructive to cling to anger.
Since neither forgiveness nor revenge are appealing options to me, I have chosen to focus on things that help me stay positive and productive. This is not easy but worth the effort. The ex does not matter: your anger is not going to teach him anything even if you were to harangue him or show him that you are doing great.
Like you, I also wanted the Liar to fail and suffer. Eventually instead of craving some sort of justice or punishment for his behavior, I had to accept that sometimes people get away with hurting us. So it is best not to prolong the hurt & postpone our happiness by holding onto anger-inducing memories of the person. Hold onto the lessons – not the memories.
I also realized that my happiness does not depend on the misery or happiness of another person.
The surge of schadenfreude that may come from hearing about the troubles of the ex is going to be temporary and illusory. Ultimately, my happiness depends on the effort I put into improving myself, realizing my dreams, and steering clear of confused-confusing-cunning-controlling-cowardly folks like him.
Feel the anger, Lily. But do not allow it to distract you from the best in you.
Lilly,
It’s completely normal. I felt the same thing. I think that most of us have. In time, it will change, and you will reach a stage of indifference.
When I started making personal changes (becoming more social and getting involved in many activities) I was able to grow and move forward. Not only did I gain many new friends – my social life was a bit lackluster, before – but I enhanced my life, and was not so dependent on him for social interaction. Keeping busy helped in soooooooooo many ways.
All of this will take some time, but you also need to decide to let go of him emotionally.
I know that your situation is much more involved, due to the loss of your child, so it’s impossible to compare. What I was trying to say is, try to enhance your life with new activities and people, it will help keep your mind busy, it will also enhance your self esteem. Keeping busy and new interests really helped me.
No, Lilly, this is a good thing! Don´t worry about the anger, it will subside in time if you let it flow out. This actually means that you are beginning to move on, because you only allow yourself to feel anger when you´re no longer dependent on him. That is, when you stand on your own two feet, when you no longer need this AC to fill some void, you can see him for what he is and thus get angry, as he deserves.
However, beware of the temptation of remaining angry indefinately just to punish him. At some point you have to acknowledge that yes, this man made you suffer and that there is nothing to be done about it. At some point, if you don´t let it go, you will only be harming yourself. Your best “revenge” is to move on and not let him ruin the rest of your life.
Lilly, this anger is normal. It is one of the stages of the grieving process. You are grieving two losses. Denial and sadness come first, then anger, eventually you get to acceptance. Read up a bit on it, you’re right where you should be. Take your time.
Lily,
Honey, I wish I could give you a hug cause I know that’s what I need when I get those feelings. Speaking only from my own experience, it doesn’t matter how much time has passed and how ‘over it’ you think you are, sometimes negative feelings will come from nowhere and seem to sabotage you. In another article NLM wrote about forgiving yourself for the negative feelings and not adding to the negativity by thinking something is wrong with you.
Also, I’ve found that other situations trigger negative feelings in me that I then equate to my past. Like Nat Attack said in her comment, being stressed at work or other unrelated events can conjure up images of your ex because of negative association. For me, when I menstruate, I get completely insane feelings that I’ve learned not to give too much credence to.
This is advice to myself that I’m still learning to follow. You’re entitled to every feeling you have on this journey. If you’re on this site, it means you know there’s light at the end of the tunnel. It means you know you’re not some crazy woman dealing with crazy emotions. You’re a woman that’s believing in her own beauty, loving herself, and being enough. Even if you were burning people in effigy last Monday, Tuesday will be better 🙂
Lilly, how long have you been angry? Maybe you were not angry at first and now it’s all coming out. Anger is good. It’ s essential for grief but as long as you are not stuck in it for months and months. Not for too long. I have another problem. I am not angry. I remember good times only. I had short rage moments but they didn’t last long. The problem with not having anger is that the self-blaming ( could have , should have) turn inwards and may cause depression. That’s not good either.
Lilly anger is normal, indeed part of the stages of grief (note you don’t proceed in a linear fashion, but feel all these emotions at different times and intensity).
Anger is OK.
The problem can be that men and women taught to express it in different ways.
Our culture teaches girls to supress anger – which they then turn inwardly on themselves. They can be made to feel guilty for even experiencing it.
The culture teaches men to express anger outwardly, but misdirect it others as scapegoats. Or they let their anger become rage, and they abuse drugs, alcohol and other people. They seek ways to not take ownership of it.
We all feel anger at one time or another. It can surprise us when it hits you with the force you describe. But it’s OK.
I have felt anger since Miss Unavailable and I parted. And that’s OK.
I will be honest – the very week of the split I got into an email spat with someone at work and my anger spilled over. My anger poured out in an inappropriate way. I’d not slept. I was hurting. I devolved to classic male behaviour. Sure, that person had been inappropriate in a professional sense, but I *went back and apologised*, and it was accepted. That person didn’t deserve my anger. In the last three months I can think of two other times when I inappropriately experienced anger. Each time I went back and apologised, taking ownership. Sure I had to swallow my pride, but that is healthy as well.
You know what – my ex-GF doesn’t deserve my anger.
Last week I thought I saw her walking past me: neither of us acknowledged each other. I felt the full range of emotions. Sadness, anger, loss – and even relief knowing it was over.
Rage is anger left to fester. The only person who suffers the is the person holding onto the anger and rage. If left unattended it can make you very, very sick. Physically, emotionally and psychologically.
When I feel angry, I sit down and write. I get it out of me. I go for a run. Or a walk. I also come to BR to talk, listen and share. I calm myself down and say “It’s ok, the anger will pass and is normal.”
But you’ll make yourself unworthy if you think you need to go back to the AC and give him a serve of your rage/anger. Don’t confront them, email or text.
Simply say to yourself “I have a right to be angry”.
You don’t need the AC to validate that emotion. It is your emotion. Just don’t let it consume you.
I don’t understand why one shouldn’t confront the person they are angry at?
I relate to what Lily is saying about her anger/rage at her ex.
I too have been on one long struggle with my anger (19 months). I have read a lot about rage and anger and asked for help from the therapist I see.
I expressed my anger at the wrong people in the wrong manner many times.
I had been no contact for 8 months and finally I couldn’t stand it anymore I broke no contact and asked to meet him. He agreed and I unleashed my anger at him. My anger was always at him I didn’t know what to do with it, it sat there I didn’t want it anymore. I tried so many things.
I felt like I could scream the place down if one more person said “just let it go” HOW do I let it go I asked 1000 xs nobody seemed to have an answer.
Since expressing my anger at the right person even if he couldn’t care less and was probably rolling his eyes wondering when it would be over, I feel better much much calmer and finally have some peace. I don’t think it has made me unworthy because I expressed it at him.
Another-view,
I’m sorry in all my confusion I missed your post. It helps when others understand the anger and the pain behind it. I don’t know how to let it go either. I think it’s too late now, maybe I’ll get my chance to express it and maybe not. For now I welcome it because it beats depression any day. Thank you for your take and I’m sorry you had to go through all that. You’ve come out well and that makes me hopeful that I can to.
Lovely Lilia, you’ve also helped me a lot and I so appreciate you for it. I’m taking your advice and letting the anger flow ;I’m not going to bury it this time and get depressed. I’m sorry to say this, but I would love to let him have it though. I won’t but I can just imagine his shocked reaction as it’s out of character, but on second thoughts I never, never want to see that cold, cruel, nasty face ever again. Oh dear, here I go again.
Simple pleasures, I’m grateful to you too. ‘Take your time’ three lovely words, thank you. I keep thinking I should be over it all by now, but I’m not. It still hurts, but I will get there I know.
d, you just gave me a cyber hug and here’s one for you too! I think you’re right about other situations triggering the negative feelings. One of my closest friends has just given birth to a beautiful baby girl who has a few problems, but will be ok.We have all rallied round to provide support, and I couldn’t help but notice the way her partner cherishes them both. The exAC didn’t even want to have his name mentioned at my baby’s service (I lost him) and it hurt so much it’s hard to explain. I think this has just triggered my anger with him which is new because usually I would just cry. It feels better to be angry now where’s that effigy :-). I’ve taken in what you’ve said though and I am here on BR to try to believe in myself again and one day I will be enough, thank you.
Sofia, my experience was similar to yours, at first I could only remember the good times which wasn’t good as I let him in again. It was all confusing as I would let him back in even though he treated me appallingly, then I would back off and try to go NC and it would go around and around. I ended up feeling so depressed there were times I didn’t think I would make it. I’ve had little moments of anger, but mostly depression.I’m determined not to go back there.
Mike from Oztralia (me too),
Thank you for the link I can certainly relate to all the stages and it does explain all the ups and downs. I like the idea that anger is ok sometimes, but I’m not comfortable with it. It’s not my usual way. I agree that our culture teaches females to supress their anger because I certainly turned it on myself. I am, however, determined not to go back there. Depression is insidious and I’ve never felt so low in all of my life.
I wish I could be like you and say that the exAC doesn’t deserve my anger, but he most definitely 100% does, but it’s all a little late I should have blasted him when I had the chance. There is no way I’d contact him ever again now. I would never, ever let him back into my life under any circumstances (angry again!).
Writing it all out sounds like a good idea as does a long, long, walk. I’ve suffered enough, physically and psychologically. He’s already taken up too much of my time (see I’m off again!), but as you say “It’s ok, the anger will pass and it’s normal” and I do have the right to be angry!!
Ok, I’m calm again :-)Thank you for your helpful comments.
Nat Attack, it’s good to hear that I have company. I too am furious at myself for letting it go on and on after he’d been so cruel. I’m embarrassed that I let him back in and sabotaged myself. I did it myself! It’s hard for me to forgive myself because of my baby. I can’t do it, now my anger’s turned to tears for goodness sake. Anger, tears, anger, tears………, but at least I’m not depressed anymore, not like I was. I’m coming out of it I know it! Maybe a f—k you email would be good (the idea brought a smile to my face), but you’re right he doesn’t deserve anything from me not even my anger. That thought helps a lot, thank you.
Lilly,
Anger doesn’t have to be a run-amok emotion or one that has you seething with rage and feeling totally awful. My therapist helped me see my anger as a personal ally, like a knight ready to do battle for me. Or simply standing guard as a protector, helping me establish my boundaries. I was always incredibly uncomfortable with expressing anger and thought it would do me physical harm if I blew a gasket (not to mention being humiliating and a sign of emotional instability) – all erroneous conclusions. I came to learn that expressing anger is not the same as blowing a gasket and just exploding in fury. Expressing controlled and appropriate anger is a sign of great strength and absolutely necessary for your mental health. This doesn’t mean yelling, screaming and accusing, but a clear communication of your displeasure about the situation. It is standing up for yourself in a very healthy way.
Sigh, I sure wish I’d known this when I got dumped. Looking back I am absolutely convinced I should have had my say and spoken the truth aloud – not to influence him, but to honor myself! Like me, it is too late for you to confront the ex with your (absolutely justifiable!) anger, and you should NEVER have contact with this evil guy again – but you still have to do it somehow by proxy, either with a therapist or with an unsent letter or whatever means might work for you. We live and learn. It’s a good lesson for future relationships that will serve you well, I’m sure of that. If we don’t express our anger in the moment, it won’t go away. So we both have to not beat ourselves up now for what we couldn’t do at the time.
Lilly, you have every right to be angry and I think once you have fully expressed it you’ll make greater progress in your healing. No one wishes that for you more than I do. Hugs!!
Nicely put. Anger is fine. There is a nice Buddhist phrase that captures why holding onto it for too long and letting it fester into rage is harmful to yourself (and I will paraphrase):
“Rage is like drinking poison to hurt someone else.”
The only victim of holding onto rage for too long is yourself.
That’s why acceptance and forgiveness is in your own self interest.
Lilly, try writing a “F__k him list”, where you write all the things you ever hated about him. Helped me to move through the hurt. We look back on them with rose coloured glasses. Reality (they were a_s holes)hurts less. Good luck
Hi Lilly,
Something that helps me when I feel angry/furious at past EUMs/ACs (and that’s a lot!) is to figure out what my part in it was. Sometimes what I’m really angry at is myself for allowing them to walk all over me, time after time after time. I’m angry that I allowed the situation to get so inverted: here, I was a good catch and he was a jerk, and I behaved as though somehow I “deserved” to be treated like crap and he “deserved” to be treated like a prince. I’m mad at myself for not acting on what I knew. I’m also mad at myself for being attracted to someone of such low moral fiber. I don’t know if that applies in your situation. I am so sorry for everything you went through. I really admire how much effort you have put (and continue to put) into working on yourself, because I know from 4+ years of trying, it is not easy to change these sorts of emotional habits.
Snowboard,
Yes, it does help trying to figure out my part in it and I am so mad at myself. I’m having trouble forgiving myself. I suppose it’s easier to be angry at him, but I am also angry at myself for the reasons you describe. This is a roller coaster of emotions, but I’m finally letting them out. I think this is a good thing and I’m trying to change. Thank you, this helps and I wish you well in your own journey.
Lilly, it’s OK to be angry with yourself and AC, what made me mad that I ALLOWED this to happen for so long, was I blind? I will never allow anyone to use me or my body, it’s precious for me…You will be fine, the most important you don’t see this monster anymore! Believe in yourself, all the best xxx
Lilly,
We seem to be on the same breakup schedule…I also severed contact in November (after he ended things…again…) and have found myself feeling irritated at the thought of him and sometimes downright angry. I think there can be many things at play. First of all, I realized I was actually angry at myself for putting up with a B.S. relationship for so long. I have always prided myself on being an honest, straightforward person who values meaningful relationships. So why did I sabotage myself for so long? It took me a while to see that my anger at myself was manifesting as full-blown hatred towards him. Once I forgave myself, my anger abated. Also, when I’m stressed at work, feeling like my life is not going they way I”d like it to, I sometimes find myself writing “f*ck you” emails to him in my head. That’s just not constructive, so I put an end to that. I try to deal with the source of the problem…taking time to chill out, have fun, journal etc. Whenever I have a any sort of thought about him now, I try to replace it with a pleasant thought about someone I love, or something meaningful I’d like to do. I’m trying to train my mind…It’s an ongoing process…so far, so good…I want to become an expert at this!
I hope you identify the source of your anger so you can deal with it soon. Good luck!
PS He’s a manipulative b–d, but he doesn’t deserve anything from you, not even your anger…
D, that’s so true about the negative feelings, I thought through the break-up that I must just be a negative person who attracts and creates negativity, it was a deeply held belief that kept me from seeing friends or making the effort with them. So I really compounded a negative situation.
And only today I was thinking how far from the truth that is now, what a beautiful and satisfying life I’ve created since, out of the rubble, and how I no longer believe people don’t want to be around me, though I’m still recovering.
You’re also so right about being entitled to every feeling, it’s that balance between facing it head-on and accepting it then pushing yourself to move on from it. Anger really can be powerful, I still do get those feelings sometimes, now towards a different person.
I like Nat Attack’s comment about training your mind. Thinking of people/things you love is a sweet idea.
Nat Attack, it’s good to hear that I have company. I too am furious at myself for letting it go on and on after he’d been so cruel. I’m embarrassed that I let him back in and sabotaged myself. I did it myself! It’s hard for me to forgive myself because of my baby. I can’t do it, now my anger’s turned to tears for goodness sake. Anger, tears, anger, tears………, but at least I’m not depressed anymore, not like I was. I’m coming out of it I know it and you’re right he doesn’t deserve anything from me not even my anger. That thought helps a lot, thank you.
Lilly, here’s a tissue. He was a stupid f_cker… he gave YOU up!
Nat attack, good insight about your own anger at self. Every right to be pissed off at ourselves when we accept less than what we actually want.
In this interesting article:
the future of relationships for young generations to come does not look too bright with proliferation of social media and dating/hookup applications. In fact, some of your EUM/AC look like most charming and romantic partners ever.
Situations and attitudes described in the article are quite real. Even if you have a nice kid, he/she still goes to school with all the others like the ones described in the article.
For those BR readers who have teenage children:
what do you know about their online activities and attitudes towards members of opposite sex? What do you tell them about Facebook presence, having real friends, hooking up, etc. ? Seems like growing up with idea that there is unlimited supply of people to meet, FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) is becoming a major driving force behind of commitment issues and it is only going to get worse I think. I see what my teenage niece post online on FB and this article seems like a reality. And she is growing up in a nice home.
“there is an unlimited supply of people to meet”, which means there is an unlimited supply of sexual encounters out there for you.
There is an age old understanding that sex sells products, and girls/women are used to make money for other people. The internet reaches a lot of females and money.
Unfortunately, the traditional family has been changed, and the needs of children are now taken over by institutions. Schools now clothe, feed, toilet train, teach social skills, oh, and maybe math skills too. Parental guidance is gone. With so many changing family scenes children are with one parent and their current sexual visitor on weekends, and their other parent, as decided by the courts on other designated days.
I am hoping there will be a backlash eventually, a “we’re mad as hell and we’re not going to take it any more” (scene), which means the parent is NOT going to pay for a teenager’s internet access.
The media, the schools, the religious institutions, the government agencies
are NOT to blame. In the words of Pogo, “We have met the enemy and he is us.”
EllyB,
Word. I just entered my portrait to be displayed in the student show at the modern art museum here. Fingers crossed!
Awesome!
Go girl, best of luck.
Mel, as hard as it is to hear you are right : YOU and only YOU can do this , and you have to do it for yourself!
I suggest you go and read somee of Nats posts about self love, selfesteem and loving yourself. I think that is where you should start. You have to be honest with yourself and realise why do you feel the way you feel, I can tell you from personal experience that you have to change that inner dialog that you have, that keeps telling you you can’t do it, you are not strong enough, you need him etc.
I can give you an advice, that I did for myself, since I am too struggling to stay away from my EUM and keep NC. I have writen all of his flaws, all the bad things he did to me, all of his sentences that hurt me so much and stuck with me, all of his selfish behaviour on a peace of paper, I have printed that paper and I keep in everywhere in the house, even in the bathroom. I keep it next to my bed when I wake up and start thinking of him and missing him, when I read that paper I am back to reality and HELL NO I do not need or want THAT in my life. You are still stuck and the illusion, you have and YOU CAN break it! I know you can, big hugs to you!
Joy, I am glad it’s helping you. I wrote a list of bad things he said and did and his traits, but I think I was not very active about it. Just wrote the list and put it away. I have a daughter, so I don’t want to put copies of the list everywhere. But I could be keeping it somewhere so that I can read it when I need. I should try that. If you think it helps, perhaps I should. And I keep coming back to this site for support. It helps so much. To see I am not alone and to read helpful articles. I do need to find articles on self-esteem and self-love. I feel completely ruined. My friends heard it all. I don’t want to bother them anymore. It has been 2 months after the breakup. “time to” heal. But couple of my really good friends listen to me. They say that take your time. Everyone heals on her/his own terms. Don’t put time limit on it. I don’t know what to do. To force myself to move on or heal naturally. I do move on of course. There is a child to take care of, job, working out, hobbies, friends. Still, I think of him every day, several times a day and have been crying over him for two weeks now. Will this ever stop…
Hi Sofia,
I can feel your pain and I really understand every feeling you are describing BUT you have to force yourself at first to start doing anything in the direction of you healing. Please go and opet ‘list of posts’ above, look for self esteem and selflove, make yourself a cup of tea and start reading. But really try and understand every sentence Nat is giving us. You have to let it sink in. Read it as many times you need.
Then go back to that list you made of him, add some more things, I am sure there are plenty! Keep it somwhere your daughter can’t see it, there are many places, I keep it in my pillow case, and every night and morning I read it, they say the thoughts we have right before we fall alsleep and wake up are those that stuck with us deep inside. I have also writen many positive traits about myself and encouragement phrases to myself.
Your friends, real friends will never get tired of you talking and going through your process, but yes, if after 6 months you still can’t talk about anything else, it is time to try and do something about it, but you are only at month 2, take your time, and don’t even think it is too much or to little. It is a process! Take it day by day.
It’s okay to cry, it’s okay to feel the way you feel, just don’t be stuck in it, do anything, anything, little steps, award yourself for them, don’t be too hard on yourself either. It WILL stop!
And you are not alone. I have been having a hard hard day today trying to resist to opet the message I received yesterday, my health got so much worse, the stress is affecting me so much, all day on the verge of a panic attack. But I am not giving up… and neither should you ! Big hugs!
Joy, thank you for your ideas and encouragement. I agree: read the list before going to sleep and when waking up.And a great point about writing about my positive traits. My self-esteem is not good at all. It’s strange because in all other areas of life I have succeeded. Academic, career. I try to be a good mother. But when it comes to looking at how I am in my relationship, it is not good. However, this relationship was an epiphany relationship for me. Since the breakup I have changed so much, I can’t believe the way I used to think and what I used to say even 2 months ago. I can’t believe it. Has anybody had that revelation? This is the first time in my life. Where I look at 2 months ago, 2 years ago and I wonder – who was it? Who I am now? I like myself now so much better. Sometimes I feel part of my depression is that I am grieving my former self. Does anybody have that experience? All my former losses, mistakes, relationships – parents or men – I am grieving all of them. I recognize everything that went wrong due to the men I chose, my mistakes, their behavior, and mostly my choice CONTINUING relationships like that even when it would have been obvious to a healthy person that that was no relationship at all. I am grieving the loss of me, even I am glad my previous is gone and I have changed. I know it is a process, but I have already changed. Has any of you had a feeling, “Oh, now I am changed, I just wish I could tell him how much I have changed, it’s almost breath taking, I am so changed. I wish he knew.” I had these thoughts sometimes, but then I stop and think, “Do I need him myself? The changed me doesn’t want him anymore. He didn’t value what I had to offer. I don’t need him.” I like what my friend said, when I told her (she is separated from her bf but they keep in contact somewhat because they have a baby together but still he won’t fully commit), she told me that she doesn’t care if he sees other women. She said, “There is no one like this one here.” I love that. I will say that to myself and BELIEVE IT TOO, when I get jealousy pains thinking whom he is seeing, maybe he moved in with her already, maybe he is proposing already, the non-committal with me, but all of sudden so ready with someone else. That does bother me and I know there are articles on the subject. About not being there to rip the benefits. I have to repeat my friend’s words, “There is nobody like me.” So says my sister too, “He can go wherever, I am the only one like this. There is nobody like me.” That’s a healthy self-esteem. I really wish I could feel like that. Not just saying it. But I am learning.
Joy, and thank you for saying this about 2 months – that it’s still ok. Yes, I think I will be fine at 6 months mark. Thinking of course, I am sure, but not with pain and tears. We will see, but I do think I am still grieving and that’s ok.
Anxiety and panic attacks!! I started experiencing those and I never had in my life. Actually, I started experiencing these not immediately after breakup. Just recently. I get very anxious, unsettled. Feel my heart is beating too fast. My health has been affected. My job has been affected. My relationship with my daughter has actually improved after getting little bit down. I realized I have to force myself to put focus, warmth, loving, emotions, attention into her. She needs me. But the rest of my life aspects are suffering. I am going have to work on figuring out how to focus on work. How to start engaging socially. I started going to church and met new people. I am planning to join meetup. I am not ready for dating at all. Too soon. I am not interested in anyone and can’t be. This will be a break for sure.
Sofia… Yes, he DID NOT value what you have to offer. Find one who does 🙂
And that’s going to be a great and lucky guy:) Thanks, rachael.
Sofia
Likewise experiencing some of this as well. I’m questioning a great many things about my past, and while painful it also liberating. I’ve had sleepless nights, good days and bad days. Anxiety, and periods of calm.
But – I’m starting to really like the new me emerging. That version of myself that was with miss unavailable seems like a different person.
I recall with embarrassment the things I just accepted, or the times I bit my tounge when I should have said something…
Today I sat around with my neighbors having a classic Aussie BBQ. I’d invited another couple with a young baby who live across from my block to join. Since the split I’ve become better friends with these people. My own friends have been great.
Late in the afternoon, one of them said to me quietly “Your surviving, your doing well.”
Best thing any one has said to me. Neither of us needed to talk anymore about miss unavailable.
It was a moment of affirmation that was both unexpected and wonderful.
We all might be taking a harder path at the moment. But we will all end up the better people for it if we learn from this important period in our lives.
Mike, yes, it is amazing how a painful experience like this can transform us to become better people. For ourselves, our friends, our family. This relationship and the experience I learned from it has been transformational. After no experience in my life, even divorce, did I feel affected as I am now. It feels that the older me died in me and the new one has emerged. It is a rebirth and renewal and maybe that’s why there is so much pain and crying because I feel I am crying over everything else that happened to me before. Over all the mistakes I did, wrong things I said. Learning to forgive myself and not to hold on anymore to something that doesn’t exist anymore. I am trying to figure out why it is so hard to let go. Part of it is a control thing. “How can I let go of something that I thought I used to have.”
Yes, I absolutely can relate to what you are saying about the version of you that emerged is so different from what you were with the miss unavailable. My question to you, feeling that, do you have a feeling that if you were that new and different person with her back then, things would turn out differently? I am thinking if I were this person who I am now , with him back then, things would be different. But I think I am wrong. It takes two people to make it work. In fact, if I were with him and being who I am RIGHT NOW, I would break off the relationship myself after 5-6 months into it when all red flags had surfaced and I had realized my meets were not met (progression of the relationship and intimacy building, commitment). Back then, because I was a different me I kept waiting and hoping that he will understand that I am a rule to the exception and will commit. So I answered my own question. No, even if I were secure and confident back then, the relationship would have not worked out still, because he were the same person and I would leave the relationship myself much sooner.
Sofia,
Your thoughts about “Would it be different if they knew I’ve changed?” also crosses my mind.
It is almost as if I wish I could say “See how great I am now!”
But I was still a good man/person then – as I’m sure you were.
To be honest – for me – I’m not sure that would matter.
“But Miss Unavailable, can’t you see how hard I’ve worked?”
The work we do is for ourselves, and not them. We makes ourselves worthy for ourselves first, then with luck, time and patience we find the person worthy of the amazing things we can offer.
I have a better understanding of myself now than I did. But does that mean that person is capable of understanding that change? Would it register for them?
It takes two people to have a relationship. God knows I gave it my best. In the end Miss Unavailable couldn’t fault me. Her criticism was that she “Loved me and not my situation”.
She said I’d tried, that I’d been present throughout, that yes there had even been progress but… I had a five year old child and a sometimes difficult ex-wife (like most divorced/separated parents).
Another reason why Miss Unavailable left – and would have left – was that she had a history of moving from job to job and relationship to relationship.
One person can’t save a relationship. And you can’t fix the other.
Yes, I frequently miss her company. As a girlfriend, she was wonderful. She was intelligent, vivacious and great company – but as a life partner and female role model for my daughter? Sadly she didn’t make the cut. And that is the hardest truth.
The former is great, but is the qualities of the later I’m hoping to find.
The only way for the relationship to have worked was for her to take the time to address her own fears, insecurities and issues.
It may be after this transformational experience you and I, and everyone else at BR, finally gets to work out what is healthier for us.
All births are painful, so that I’m treating this time as a period of re-birth.
Mike, how long have you been NC? How long was the relationship?
Part of me knows that it was fears and insecurities, internal and external, knowing he will leave. He is on a contract job and he came here from another country. First red flag – circumstantial anyway. Secondly I knew his history of no commitment and not ever living with anyone by the age of 35. Also, just generally a bachelor like, non-committal life style that seemed pretty set in. And more over he was honest and blunt with statements that he is not interested in settling down “right now maybe later.” That “right now maybe later” kept me going. So I had a lot of fears caused by external uncertainty that he was not committed but internal fears as well because I was afraid losing him. I thought I found the One and couldn’t imagine losing him due to all of the reasons above. So I kept checking the status of “us” too frequently – and the first two months of NC I blamed myself so much for “pushing” and “pressuring” him with questions about his commitment to our relationship because I was so unsure of anything with him due to his actions or rather lack of actions and due to my insecurities which multiplied because of his non actions and ambiguity.
I know when I was with people who loved me and cared about me I never felt like that. I had no fears. My ex-husband who loved me – I never had a fear that he would leave or something would change. Then, there was another person after my divorce, I knew he loved me and had no fear or doubt. Things didn’t work out for different reasons, but I never felt insecure with people who showed with their actions that I was important in their lives.
Yes, true, even if you present your new self and changed person, will it matter to them? Will it register for them? I was thinking that too. Then, another thing, did he think that with time, after a breakup, we will think a lot and change? He said several times during our relationship, “people don’t change.” I said, not true, we change gradually with every year for sure, and mostly, important events in life shape you. He didn’t think so.
Yes, it takes two to make a relationship work.
I understand you broke up with your ex. Did you ever contact her afterward? Did she? Was there ever a conversation or possibility to get back together and try again? I don’t think so because I see your priorities. You have a daughter ( I am a single mom of a 9-year old) and you want someone who will be good to and for your daughter. I understand that. I don’t think my ex would be a good person for my daughter. He is not a bad person, but he is not interested and not equipped with parenting skills at all. He said when breaking up that, “yes, I didn’t think about that but that’s too much responsibility. now there are 3 people living together not just two” (when I mentioned that maybe you don’t think we could work out and we are so different because I have a daughter? ) so all of sudden , another reason why we are so different, I have a daughter. Hello? I had always had a daughter and he knew it from the start.
Another thing I learned, Mike, is that I should never introduce anyone to my daughter so fast. My mistake. She got used to him even during those infrequent times he was around. When I date I make sure I get to know person well enough for 3-6 months perhaps,depending how often we see each other. And only then will I introduce my daughter. We as parents, have to put our kids’ happiness first.
See, you are saying, the only way for the relationship to work was for her to face her fears and insecurities. did you tell her that? If my ex told me that and I told him you need to face your fears of commitment, let’s work on this together. I would give it a chance. I know I had issues with fears and insecurities, which were driven by his behavior too, it was a combination of things. I would work on my own anxieties too like I have been in the last 2 months. But he never gave me a chance to work on anything. he never said we had any issues. He just decided we are different and he is not committed and he walked out. He never said there was anything wrong me or something that I did. he said that something was missing and he doesn’t feel I am the person for him. I guess I should take it as it is but it’s hard because why would we spend together such a long time for him to figure out at the end that I am not for him. Still lost sometimes trying to figure out what happened…
“Unfortunately, the traditional family has been changed, and the needs of children are now taken over by institutions. Schools now clothe, feed, toilet train, teach social skills, oh, and maybe math skills too. Parental guidance is gone. With so many changing family scenes children are with one parent and their current sexual visitor on weekends, and their other parent, as decided by the courts on other designated days.”
@ Simple Pleasure,
That’s a bit of a generalisation isn’t it? It’s never been that way for myself or I would say many others who have raised their children themselves.
We all bring our own experiences to this kind of debate. As a single parent – close to having my daughter 50% of the time – the heavy hand of the school has not been my experience.
If anything the lack of support and resources is extremely challenging and isolating.
Thankfully my child started her first year of school this past January, and I can finally start tapping into a community.
It’s a relief to know I’m not alone anymore! Solo parenting is hard enough – thank goodness for the school and community I’m becoming part of!
No, it’s not a generalization, it’s the reality behind the scenes at least in the public schools of the USA. If you have raised your children on your own without financial support from the other parent, or grandparents or the government, I commend you. In America, this could only be done if you have the wealth of a movie star or a neurosurgeon. In the US single parenting is a direct line to poverty. In the US, single parents (usually mothers) and their children are subsidized with health insurance benefits for well child care and immunizations, breakfast and lunch subsidies in the public schools, and daycare/childcare subsidies. The public schools where I live have clothing donated and on a daily basis if a child wets their pants or “forgets” their coat, it is provided.
From my professional experience, it it just about impossible for a single parent to raise a child without financial help, either, their own parents, child’s parent, or government, which is what I would call the schools. If you’ve done it on your own, I applaud you!
Simple pleasures,
I am a single working parent and certainly don’t get any of the support you mentioned. Quite the reverse in fact I find I have to teach my children a lot of things (eg handwriting) that one would expect them to have learned at school. (And I myself learned at school.
I cook properly for them with fresh ingredients.
I do not spending my time shagging around, I may have been on a date or two but no man will meet my bairns for a very long time.
Your denigration and stereotyping of single parents is offensive.
That term “sexual visitors” OMG, so sleazy. We aren’t all whores!
Btw., my personality disordered (and married) mother always touted Christian and conservative “family values”. According to her that meant confining me to the home, not allowing me to socialize with people outside the family and always telling me what a horrible and immoral person I (purportedly) was. According to her I “brought shame on the family” simply by being a normal child.
I think quite a few people in here were raised in a similar way. “The good old times” weren’t always good… they also gave a lot of power to abusers.
EllyB
I agree and in keeping with the theme of this post, too many people hanker back to some imaginary golden era circa 1950 when all was right with the world and people were hardworking, respectable and had high standards. Conveniently forgetting about the cruel and inhumane ways in which huge numbers of people were treated. Life might have been pretty good if you were a white, middle class heterosexual male but for just about everyone else it was not so rosy.
Mymble and S.P.,
I don’t feel that the remark was offensive, but rather misquided. In the U.S. the type of schools and what they provide is quite varied. Making an assumption about this just isn’t possible. So many different states, different state regulations, different schools chancellors and administrations prevent the broad generalizations that you make, S.P. I do however agree that public schools in general seem to be lacking in basic eduacational requirements that were taken for granted year, ago, like penmanship. These days with all the focus on modern electronic equipment, I can see many kids incapable of clear, legible handwriting as their penmanship will be atrocious.
BTW,
I was a single mother from my daugther’s infancy until she went to community college, because I could not afford to send her to a four year college.
Tink,
It was me who made the comments about handwriting:-)
Anyway I agree that we all have our own personal story and sweeping generalizations about single parents and their morality and parenting aren’t helpful. It’s also wrong to conflate poverty with lack of values or morals or love for children.
Hi S.P.
Just wanted to comment on you post above about single parenthood ans the enormous expense in the U.S. My niece raised he daughter in NYC, sending her to private schools for 12 years. She is not wealthy but has a master’s degree and good paying jobs throughout the years. Now her daughter has begun her first year at Cornell U. on scholarship. After footing all the bills caring for her daughter all of these years, at the age of 18 she is finally suing the father for child support. My grand niece has a good scholarship but expenses at any college, esp. an Ivy League is very costly. I’m glad she has decided to stop letting the father off easy.
Appalling lack of support toward single parents by the US Govt *shaking head*
simple pleasures, I am a single mom and live in the US. You are absolutely right. If I didn’t have a regular child support coming from her dad, Idon’t know how I would make it. I don’t have any family support here because I came from a different country. I have to rely on myself only. Another hard part here is very limited sick days and very expensive daycare/summer camps. Summer is approaching and it’s easily $200 a week for any summer camp. It’s hard for single parents in this country particularly, I think, unless one has a support network. I don’t qualify for any subsidies because my income is not low enough. I am glad some people do get help.
And EllyB,
The tooth is fine 😉 They fixed that right up.
Wendy,
Congrats! I sssoooo desperately want to be where you are. You give me hope. Keep up the good work!
—————-
Sophia,
I want to change everything too! He’s a coworker. I want a new job. He’s been at my condo. I want to move. Unfortunately, I JUST moved in here six months ago, so I can’t move out. But good for you! Keep up the good work on NC. I envy you too.
—————–
Again, another post that I think was written especially for me! I spent the last seven months trying to recapture the first two months. I feel like Sisyphus, always working to accomplish something only to have to start over every.single.day. He blows very hot when he wants sex then he’s ice cold and throws me crumbs (which I eagerly receive). Regardless, I know KNOW that I need to let go. It’s difficult and my head is filled with “LostInNYC, you can’t…this hurts too much…this is hard…” =(
My NC lasted three whole days. THREE. =( I’m OK if I don’t see him at work, but all bets are off when I do. This is the dialogue in my head “I haven’t texted D in three days (work days! Remember…he goes m.i.a. on weekends and after 5pm on weekends). He’ll think I’m mad at him. I am, but I don’t want him to think that cuz the last time we left it everything is OK. Everything is NOT ok. But NO, he can’t think this. I better text him.”
Tonight, through my super duper internet sleuthing skillz, I found definitive proof that they still live together. He isn’t divorced as he claims. Huh?
I’ve suspected this since August (two months into the “relationship”), but always gave him the benefit of the doubt…oh who am I kidding…I gave him excuses to make myself feel better. Now I have real proof so I have NO excuse to continue talking to him. I doubt he’ll give me an honest answer if I confront him.
I am so desperately trying to find that magical thought that will make my brain click and realize that I need to treat myself better, put myself first, and stop thinking about him because he certainly isn’t thinking about me. But how? I’m freakin’ 39 years old!
I’m so mad at myself for ignoring the red flags and letting this drag on for NINE months. I need to forgive myself and move on, but all I hear in my head is “You’re so stupid for believing him…You’re in the exact same spot you were 10 years ago and why haven’t you learned?!…this NC thing is too hard…you’re gonna give in anyways so just do it.”
I have an appointment with my doctor tomorrow morning to discuss meds for my depression and anxiety. Work alone gives me enough anxiety, but I also see him there.
Thanks for letting me get this out of my system. I am trying to boot him from my life. It’s happening at a excruciatingly slow pace. I’m sad, frustrated, angry, and anxious. I hope some of these feels are due to the depression and the meds will help. I hope that my brain “clicks” soon. I really want to be done with him and forgive myself but I don’t know how. “Just be done” is easier said than done.
Almost as if Natalie is in our lives… this post is exactly what is happening to me now. I met a man 2 and half months ago, up until last week he was great, always had time for me , made me feel great, i was starting to think i had found a suitable partner …till last weeek … he made an almost complete 180 degree turn, didnt call me as much, didn’t see him as much missed 2 appointments with me, he tells me its because of his exams ( he is trying to finalise his last year in the Uni where I am currently a PhD) but somehow i an dissatisfied with this , i guess its because its too drastic a change, one moment he was all over me now he is too busy, when i called him up on this, he tried to explain to me that he has always been busy and actually normally dedicates up till 12 hrs of his time prep for exams, but becos he was trying to be with me he dedicated time to me in the hope that i will be able to cope with his busy times…. i dont know but its starting to sound like i was mislead or manipulated, or maybe i am not being understanding enough , after all it is exam time… hmm not sure what to think at what points are we being idealistic in our expectations and when are is it normal expectations?
Moh, anyone who puts him or herself out there on the relationship market has the responsibility to make enough time for said relationship. If someone is busy with work or school and they want a relationship too, then they have to kick their efforts into high gear. It is possible. I know quite a few people who do almost superhuman things in order to keep a relationship going.
You then have to judge whether or not his efforts are both sincere AND acceptable. If you think he is truly sincere and doing the best he can with his busy schedule, and you really like him, then you need to be understanding and willing to accommodate him. Real life is always going to intrude on the “honeymoon” period and you might have to temper your expectations. He will have to do the same for you at some point. Then again, if you really want someone with more time to spend with you, then it’s a matter of being incompatible. Doesn’t necessarily mean he is manipulative or misleading you. Sounds like you need to have a mature conversation with him about what you both want.
Moh,
I would give him a break. If it continues, after exams, then let him go.
This guy has a lot on his plate, now. Please put yourself in his place.
Moh, question…
How do you feel when you think of him?
and…
if a man likes you he makes time for you and he communicates what is going on
I posted earlier about the joys of living alone and how the ensuing loneliness is not difficult to remedy reading the post that Peanut got a puppy, reminded me of my craving to adopt a pet, a dog or cat. I don’t particularly want to walk a dog, but then I don’t have an appropriate place for a litter box. This is why I haven’t done anything, yet. Decisions, decisions. Thank God I no longer have such critical ones to make.
Tinkerbell – do you have a furnace room? That is where my litter box is. You can also buy litter boxes that go into a corner box that hides the litter box inside…and the cat can just walk into it. I’ve had cats for 11 years as I travel a lot. They are much easier then dogs.
This so makes me think of my relationship. Was with someone for 7 years, weve been broken up a year and a half. I totally fell in love with the image of the person I thought he was. After a few months he stopped putting in real effort and I realized he wasnt over his ex (the same ex 7 years later he would leave me for) anyways, I fell in love with the idea of who he was. I thought he was a good guy . Boy was I wrong . We always had drama. I wasnt a saint but I realize: he created conflicts always. I was always willin to give it my 100% and he wasnt . He was unsure of me alot . Woudl leave me and come running back to me… Until the girl he apprently always wanted finally wanted him again …
I look back and wonder what issues I had within myself. Someone unhealthy would do the things I did and apparently I was . I am so glad I got away from it. It still hurts a little bit but I am doing so much better. I guess it hurts because we were together for so long and he just left me coldly. But thank heavens, i havent talked to him since weve been broken up (2012)
now i know better for next time and have even met someone great
I’m in the same place! Been broken up since December, NC since Early February- I was doing so good but then waves of destructive emotion wash over me. I get so angry & think of all the nasty things I’d like to say. I haven’t broke NC & I cancelled my email account so if he ever tried to contact me he’d get a auto message: ‘this account has been terminated’ but I doubt it since I sent him a last email in feb & he never responded then 30 days later I cancelled my email. I keep seeing him driving around & I know one of these times we’re going to run into each other. He is a classic narc but he threw me away & there’s no hoovering now he’s done with me. I have 2 questions: when does the roller coaster stop? I want OFF this crazy train! What do you say/do if you run into them? I’m scared I’m going to unleash everything by saying no! We are NOT having a conversation so you can try to make yourself feel better by thinking ‘oh gee, she’s talking to me, I can’t be THAT bad’- you are vile & wretched & there is nothing about you that I want anywhere near me!’ Dear Lord- help me! I want to be free. What a drama-seeking crazy making ass!
Brandy, the same here. I am almost 2 months NC. Nothing from him or me. I can’t call him EU or AC, but I think he is an EU because he didn’t want to commit. I threw a final ultimatum at him at about a year mark of a relationship. He said, ” I don’t see you as my life-time partner. And perhaps because I am not committed. Let’s be friends and let’s talk in couple months.” I don’t want to be friends with him and am not ready for that. Yet is is a roller coaster. Jealousy overtakes me. I started going to church. Finding strength in God to help me overcome this. Psychology only takes you so far. You just keep recycling your feelings. I am stuck.But 2 months is not enough yet. It’s a grieving process still. Hang in there. Stay NC please. I feel I am about to break it, but I won’t. Stay strong. Post here, read others’ posts. It helps me to get through. A day at a time. I don’t want to hurry time, but I know after one year, or even less, time goes by and I won’t care for him anymore. Just give it time. Please know it will pass. That’s my hope that I won’t care for him at all by the end of this year.
I have been in this position many times in life. Today I don’t feel those feelings about them. Time DOES heal. You will look back one day and wonder why you spent so much time hurting about each one.
rachael, I believe you and I agree with you. I look back at 1 long -term relationship and two short ones and they were painful breakups!!!! I just forgot by now how much pain it was. But the truth is that you do get over. It is inevitable. I would say, one year is truly a max. 6 months+ is the time to get really better. I am 2 months after, so I recognize I am too fresh.But from my previous experiences, this will get better. Although my this one last one, epiphany relationship has been the most painful in my entire life. But I know this pain will go away too. I have to believe it.
Sofia,
conquer this “the most painful in my entire life.” and who knows what you can do!!
rachael, I am strong. I will! 🙂 Thank you:)
Brandy,
I would pretend not to see him if at all possible. If you absolutely cannot pull that off, say hello and keep walking.
Brandy – it takes as long as it takes. I’ve been NC for 6 months with a few communications from the ex EUM. He was in my life for 2.5 years – we dated during the first year casually, then committed to each other during 2013. He is classic EUM and I thought I would be the exception. He’s already in another relationship with someone who is separated and I just found out they are planning to move in together. I am still not over it all and I was hoping I would be 6 months out. Seeing as he was in my life for so long and I was very attached there is a lot to work through. I decided to not date as I would just be rebounding and it wouldn’t be fair to the other person. I am in a much better place, but I still hurt and the latest news (I didn’t not go seeking for it) hurts…but I know at some point his ‘relationship’ will explode. There are cycles of grief and you need to go through them and feel what you feel so you can heal healthily and will be ready for a healthy relationship. NC is very hard the first few months but it will get easier. A book that has helped me a lot is Getting Past Your Breakup by Susan Elliott. She has amazing advice just like Natalie and has a great website as well. Its time for you to focus on yourself. Figure out who you are, what you want and to treat yourself with love. Find a new hobby, start a series on Netflix (I did this), start an exercise class etc. Focus on you…and start reading Natalie’s articles as well as the comments. I’ve learned a lot and know that you aren’t alone. 🙂
lynn, I was about to ask you how long was your relationship. I see, 2,5 years. Mine was one year. The good thing we don’t have any common friends (he is from another country) and I don’t have Facebook. So I have no clue what’s going on with his life. He has not contacted me since he broke up with me. That breaks me heart just to imagine knowing he is moving in with someone. You must be in such pain. I am jealous of what might be happening with my ex, if he is with someone, moved in, etc. That part that he moves in with someone, but couldn’t with me, it is killing me. This recycling doesn’t stop . I feel the last 2-3 weeks have been so hard that I can’t take it anymore. Still wake up thinking of him, go to sleep thinking of him. And he is on my mind throughout the day. On and off. Work, gym, being at home. Even church. That’s really bad. But I guess it’s normal. I did read the book you recommend. And coming back here and reading over and over helps the pain. I don’t know what I would do without this board.
When your ex contacted you in the last 6 months, what did he want? What was the reason for breakup? Did he break up?
I know my ex won’t contact me. I just have a feeling he won’t because if he decided for final that he is not committed to me and I am not the right person, that’s it. He is not the person to go forth and back. Makes it “easier” for me to move on and yet it’s so hard because it is a 100% NC and for good.
Sofia – have you thought about talking to a counselor? I have done that a few times (Just today actually) in the last few months and its helped. The last time he contacted me was to tell me that they had broken up…he thought that I stopped talking to him because he was seeing someone else. Its a long story – but after we broke up…I barely gave myself a break from him because he was very persistent in getting me to see him. We fel into fwb and hanging out all the time. I was in denial and thought he would change his mind about us. Then 3 days after a time he initiated sex – he told me that he is talking to someone new and that he should be good. It was devastating. I asked him why it was ok for him to initiate sex 3 days ago when he knew he was talking to someone new. He said he didn’t think about it and that she is really into him so he thought he should be good. So I finally ripped th band aid off and told him I needed no contact. There were other reasons I told him I needed to go no contact…I was lying to myself all summer.
anyway – he contacted me in January to let me know that they had broken up – and seeing as that is the reason we stopped talking (not the only reason)- if I was ready to be friends and then joked about friends with benefits. I was pissed. I shouldn’t of responded but I was pissed. So I said I can’t believe you had the balls to joke about friends with benefits when we haven’t spoken in a few months. Told him that I wasn’t ready and may never be ready to be his friend. And that him seeing someone wasn’t the only reason for no contact. He apologized for his joke in the text…and told me that he missed me and that he understood and wished me well.
I think a week or 2 later – without even thinking – my first nephew was being born and I texted him immediately to tell him. I kept his number in my phone from the previous text. We had a normal convo – and after asking him how he was he said that they had gotten back together after she worked some things out in her head – and that he was hoping we could be friends again. Then 2 weeks ago I got an instagram friend request from him.
hang in there – its good that your ex won’t contact you. I know that you think it will make you feel better – but every time he’s contacted me I’ve felt worse for a few days. Just keep focusing on yourself and when you start to ruminate on him saying STOP! It doesn’t matter it doesn’t matter it doesn’t matter.
lynn, I thought about a counselor but then , for me it is “easier” because he left me alone completely. I have no forth and back. Also I read so many books on the subject and I have a support of friends and this site. Plus, I have support of my faith and friends from the church I go to.
It’s good that a counselor is helping you. Whatever works, do it. I see you texted him when your first nephew was born. See, I know how it feels, wanting to share important events and that’s what is “easy” but hard. You still have contact with him but yet you are not in a relationship. I want to share things with my ex so much, but I can’t. We have NC and it is definite and mutual (not agreed upon, just a natural thing that happened). From talking every day, consistently to going NC is very hard. But they say it’s the best way to get over someone. And sometimes you ask, “why why why” Why we didn’t even try to work on the issues, if there are any issues. That’s the thing. We never argued about anything. Nothing serious I mean. There was never a fight. We compromised quickly, made up quickly. And all of sudden, the end, with no even opportunity to work on the relationship, to give it a chance. Just over. Hard to comprehend.
Sofia,
I read your recent comments and must say that I can identify with a lot of what you are feeling. Like you, I was stumped when the ex went from frequently meeting me, daily calling & emailing me to disappearing on me. Eventually, he sent an email in which he admitted for the *first* time that he felt he could not “bridge our social and professional differences”. Up to this point, he led me to think that he had no issues with my social and professional commitments. He made no mention of our differences – let alone those he perceived to be unbridgeable. Like you, I could not *comprehend* why he chose not to discuss or resolve anything. How could he just disappear after getting my hopes up?
However difficult it was for me to say this to myself, the fact is that he did not care about me. Instead, he wanted to run the relationship on *his* terms to meet *his* needs. Till date, I have no idea what he meant by our “social and professional differences”. Did it bother him that I work at least 70 hours a week – and derive satisfaction from my work? Did he resent me for not dropping everything to meet his friends so that he could, as he said, “show me off to them”?
Sofia, it does not matter “why” our exes did not commit to us. Here is one answer: because they are idiots & escapists. By running away from the relationship, they could *avoid* taking responsibility for the way they treat us. Since they could not continue *taking* things from us on their terms, they bailed out. Simple.
Sofia, no matter how busy your ex was with his work and life, if he wanted he could have made more time for you over the weekend. I hope you and I never again make the mistake of seeking care and companionship from reluctant people – if we have to twist their arm to get their attention and time, then they are not the One for us. If resolving issues or making plans with them feels like pulling teeth, then they are not the One for us.
Never beg them for their time or attention: you are not a pauper. Never allow them to use you for a night out and sex: you are not a prostitute. Never again put up with jibes at your interests, likes or dislikes, mannerisms, and so on: you are not a punching bag.
Most importantly, do not set yourself up for disappointment by looking for love from a noncommittal person. This is something I too need to remember. You are right: in theory these lessons are easy to absorb, but in practice they are not easy to implement. This is why it is important to take our time to grow as individuals before returning to the joys & perils of dating.
Nigella, I think you and I have finally come to the point where we will never accept anything less than on mutual terms. Looking back at my last relationship and the others I can’t believe I would wait for someone, accepted limited, on their terms time together. And hoping to have a relationship with a noncommittal person. These two – 3 months have been life transforming for me and I am happy about it although it has been a very painful experience. But that’s the only way to learn when you are hurt really really bad that’s when things start becoming clear and better.
Brandy, who cares what he feels should you run into him. Get off the train by finding someone that you give a sh_t what they feel.
Nigella and Wiser, thank you for your responses. I will write back soon when I’ve calmed down. If I was angry before I’m now twice as bad! Totally out of the blue I just received an email from the exAC. He’d received a request from another professor asking for more information about some research I had carried out under his supervision. He didn’t even bother to say Hi Lilly, just copied me this correspondence with the other prof. I feel unbelievably disrespected right now and furious. Who does he think he is and how dare he think he can treat me this way. I had his baby for goodness sake, my baby was a human being, he died, I’m a human being, I’m someone. I’m crying now can someone help me please.
Is this my chance to tell him what a despicable person he is?
Lilly, This reply will most likely get to you too late if you have already reacted and replied to the email. If you haven’t then please try to act on the knowledge that your initial and panicked reaction to his email will pass in the space of time. This is not the time to make any decisions because of the terrible and hurt feelings his email has immediately invoked inside you. For now there is nothing to be done but to wait out the pain of those feelings. Whilst doing this try and do a minimum to nurture yourself. Things like having a nice bath, then watching your favourite comedy or reading a favourite book. If you can’t bring yourself to the level of concentration watching TV or reading requires then I’d suggest trying for an early night/afternoon nap. Whatever it takes to get you through the initial reaction without damaging yourself emotionally or physically (by this I include things like not eating, it is important to eat and even if you feel like you are on auto-pilot you must try to find something inside yourself to either cook/warm up something you have in the house or go out and buy a take away or other food).
Lilly, there is plenty of time to respond/not respond in a way that will enhance your self esteem and reflect your caring for yourself. No rush. Do what you can to look after yourself for now. You will feel better tomorrow or the next day.
lizzp.
“I had his baby for goodness sake, my baby was a human being, he died, I’m a human being, I’m someone. I’m crying now can someone help me please.”
Dear Lilly, I want to let you know and confirm with you that yes your baby was a human being, yes you are a human being, yes you are someone. I think you may be having a little trouble believing in your little baby’s and your own humanness right now but that belongs to him Lilly not you. You feel, you are human.
Lilly, you said in a previous post that you don’t want to be stuck, you want to be free. Please, please hold onto that. If you respond to him, you will be engaging him again and encouraging him to continue to try with you, pure and simple. He’s just fishing, trying to get a response. Until this guy is dead, there is always the possibility that he will contact you, out of the blue, for years to come. I don’t care how important he is in your professional field, you have to BLOCK him, so he can’t contact you out of the blue anymore and put you in these kinds of tailspins. Or at least make it a lot harder for him. I don’t know what else I can say. This guy is poison for you and like all poisonous things, you have to keep your distance!
I think in Lilly’s case I could not honestly say: don’t do it. Take your time, and if you still feel that understandable anger – tell him, what you have to say! Then cut contact.
Lilly, Wiser is right. However and whoever the F**k he is in your professional area, you need to block this piece of sub-human pond scum a pronto. NO-ONE at your work can stop you from blocking ALL emails from him immediately because you are never going to work on ANYTHING with him EVER again and emails such as the FYI one he just sent you require NO RESPONSE so can go straight to TRASH, Lilly, you’re under no obligation to receive emails from him. Remove this piece of shite from your every field of your vision. xo
Lilly,
Lizzp hit the nail on the head. If one is open to listening, this sort of practical feedback can help one flush crap out of their life – decisively. Time is precious – invest it in you.
Lizzp,
I thought of skipping my Saturday swim but your comment has put me in such a good mood, I am heading off to the pool. Thanks for posting.
Nigella, Hope you swam your heart out. Your posts are without exception an inspiration to me. Keep going down your own path friend.xo
Ditto, Lizzp, a thousand times!
Lilly,
Why haven’t you blocked????
Don’t do this to yourself!
Allison, this is a good question. I blocked him from my private email, new address and new phone numbers. The only place I haven’t blocked him is my university email and this might sound like an excuse, but I’m a little bit scared to do that. People here are aware of our connection (business not personal) and his name comes up because of the research I’m involved in. I’ve even had someone suggest I contact him for information, but of course I didn’t. The information he’s just forwarded to me is of interest and I will be contacting that particular prof. It’s all intertwined and feels like a small world;I’m confused and not sure what to do about it.
Lilly:
If it’s professional request, reply directly to the person requesting the information. Then block the married ex. He can forward your email address to others who request it, he doesn’t need to be the one contacting you, they do.
No. It’s pointless. It will just reinforce (for him) his decision to leave you at the airport was the right one(for him). He doesn’t care. He is married, he has his life, you were just a tasty dessert option for him. He never cared for you or the baby. He will never care about either. You can’t make him care, he is incapable of caring.
There’s a book right here on this site that will be of use to you in letting go: CURBING YOUR OBSESSION QUICK GUIDE Another book you may find helpful Obsessive Love: When It Hurts Too Much to Let Go
You are poisoning yourself. You are the only one who can stop poisoning yourself.
We love you and are trying to throw you life preservers, please reach out and grab one, any one.
Obsessive Love: When It Hurts Too Much to Let Go
flee, Absolutely spot on.
Lilly, I hope you might consider flee’s words with deep reflection. Wiser’s and Nigella’s posts address what seems to be the crux of the matter too. I posted below in the same vein.
Lilly,
I get the sense that you want to write him and tell him how terrible he is, and assume that this will elicit some kind of response from him. How many times can you try to squeeze blood from a stone?
My fear is that contacting him will set you back. His response will not be what you want it to be, and the cycle just continues. You have tried and tried before to get him to care about you and your baby, what you went through with your baby’s loss, and he has not. He will not. But that is entirely a reflection upon him and you know this.
Cutting him out completely shows him that he is a terrible human being who you will not waste your time on any longer. It will also hurt his ego more than anything else – sending him an angry email will just let him think that he still has power over you.
I sugget an unsent letter that is completely unfiltered. Get it all out. Then burn the letter, and hopefully it will be a release for you.
Lilly,
It may be a good idea to discuss any communication you may or may not decide to make with your ex with a good therapist. Do you have one? Your anger seems normal and reasonable, but my gut tells me that writing to your ex to vent may actually cause you more harm than good. I think you can regain your happiness, self-respect, power, and stability without engaging with him. Of course your feelings of anger are 100% legitimate, but I am worried that he could respond in a way that could really hurt you. You don’t need that right now. Maybe asking for the guidance of a counsellor would be helpful…
Lilly,
My advice may sound extremely silly but it is the only strategy that has helped me. At some point I just imagined I was in the middle of an epic battle between good and bad (me being good, of course). So I stuck to Max von Sydow´s excellent advice in The Exorcist:
do not engage with the devil
do not argue with him
do not believe anything he says
(he is extremely manipulative)
DO NOT believe anything he says, he is LYING
I´m paraphrasing, but you get the point. Somehow thinking of the situation in those terms helped me made peace with it and disentangle myself from it. I think this has been the only period in my life when I found looking at scary movies useful.
More seriously, at some point (but this was way before the EUM who brought me here) I read a very controversial book about the psychology of evil by M. Scott Peck (I think it was called People of the lie) and it helped me understand why and how some people just don´t take responsibility for their actions, and how this harms others and themselves, and basically to get far away from them as soon as possible. Because you just can´t fight them.
Yes, People of the Lie is a disturbing and illuminating book that I recommend everyone read. It will stick with you for quite some time. The average hurtful person is (to various extents) immature, wounded, selfish, clueless, dishonest, shallow, narcissistic, etc. That’s most of the ACs and EUMs we read about here. Then there is another category of people who are evil according to M. Scott Peck’s definition, who take lying and selfishness to a terrifying level. These people are toxic to your soul, your health and your life. I really believe Lilly’s vile guy is one of these. You can do nothing with them. Psychologists such as M. Scott Peck can do nothing with them. You must stay away from them.
Lilly,
Ultimately only you can decide what is best for you – and also deal with the consequences of your choice or decision. In case it might help you decide whether you want to contact him, you could ask yourself:
(1) What do I expect to achieve by telling him that he is “despicable” because he did X, Y, Z?
(2) Why do I want him to see my anger and hurt? Why do I want to impress upon him that I no longer idealize or desire him?
(3) Is it true that I no longer idealize and desire him?
(4) What do I expect him to say?
(5) Do I expect an apology? Remorse for his lack of respect for me? Do I expect him to feel bad about himself and confess this to me? Do I expect him to grovel, sob, beg for forgiveness? Do I expect him to express concern for me? Do I expect him to tell me that without me he feels miserable?
(6) In best-case scenario, if he seems to feel bad, sheds (crocodile) tears, provides reasons (excuses) for his behavior, and says sorry for hurting me, can I really accept this response? Can I really trust him after *everything* that has happened? How can I be sure that he is being *sincere*? Maybe he is feigning remorse – acting contrite & expressing regret – just to get me off his back?
(7) In worst-case scenario, if he (a) ignores my email or (b) retaliates & tells me to move on and leave him alone – and tells me that I am responsible for prolonging my pain – then am I prepared to handle this response? How am I going to feel and act if he (a) ignores me or (b) retaliates & defends himself?
(8) Do I want him to stop dehumanizing and objectifying me – stop treating me as *something* rather than *someone*?
Lilly, this man has objectified you, has treated you as an object that can be admired, desired, used, and tossed aside. Objects do not have feelings or thoughts – needs or expectations. Objects are there to serve a purpose for someone – and often they can be replaced by other objects that can supply X, Y, Z to the person using them. It makes perfect sense that you are feeling angry at him for objectifying you – for not recognizing your feelings.
There is nothing you can do to change the past or change him. To think otherwise is to engage in self-delusion. This man *lacks* empathy – his actions have shown this to you already. Perhaps it is not just anger you are feeling, Lilly. Maybe you are still in denial about this man – the anger is a *cover-up* for this denial. There is a part of you still hoping that he is – as you said – a “reward” for you. He is not – just a harbinger of the painful lessons you had to learn. Learning the lessons is going to be rewarding.
From what I gather, it is not just that you want to tell him off. But as you said – “I want him to feel just a little of what I went through” – you want him to recognize your suffering and feel hurt like you. This requires *empathy* – something he lacks or refuses to offer you. This also requires him to confront his issues – something he is unlikely to do.
I am sorry for your loss, Lilly. Justice is important: I detest nothing more than seeing people get away with deceiving, bullying, and harming others. Like you, for a while I struggled to accept the fact that there is nothing I could do to punish the Liar for deceiving & disrespecting me. But I am glad I never contacted him after politely, foolishly acknowledging his break-up email. Contacting such people only proves to them that you need them more than they need you – and this need for approval or attention makes them respect you less even if on the surface they express remorse for their misdeeds. They move on – and so can you. Think before you act – our feelings are not enough to guide us in the right direction. Think. Dig deep. Let go.
For your sake, I do hope you do not give the duffer the satisfaction of seeing you suffer.
Wise words Nigella.
Justice is living well, and not letting the ACs, MU and the like pull us so down we can’t get up.
Living well proves just how wrong they were. Indeed, I half suspect they get smug satisfaction out of seeing others suffer – it proves to them HOW SPECIAL THEY ARE.
You’re just feeding their narcissism of how important they are by continuing to let them dominate your world and thinking after the split.
NC is the best remedy – it is going cold turkey after a harmful, but addictive drug.
Wiser,Allison,Chutzpelady, Nigella, Lizzp, Lilia, A, Nat Attack,
BR Ladies, I’ve read and clung to each and every comment and I really cannot thank you enough for helping me. What triggered most of my anguish was him not acknowledging me, not even using my name, just forwarding the correspondence. It might not make sense, and I can’t really explain just how much it hurts, but it’s like a reflection of the whole ‘relationship’ the disrespect, the ignoring of my feelings, dismissing my baby, dismissing me, his arrogance, nastiness, cruelty, coldness. It’s a reminder and it hurts. If he’d just said “Hi Lilly, here is some information for you” or something similar I wouldn’t have felt quite so bad. This may have been a mistake, but I was angry and reacted instead of waiting; I replied with a simple “Hi (ac), Thank you, Lilly”. I do have a ‘name’ after all even if he couldn’t remember it. Maybe it was a mistake, I don’t know. I should have waited.
I spent the night at my sister’s and she said the same as Wiser and that he is just fishing. Well this just takes me back to all the horrible times when I had to try to second guess what his behaviour meant, the ambiguity, the lack of proper communication, etc, etc. I detest being thrown back into that kind of thinking and I shouldn’t care less what his motives are. I know I shouldn’t give this another moment of my time, but it’s so hard. I feel as if there is unfinished business between us. Right now I keep swinging from anger to immense sadness back to anger. Not the right time to let him have it. I’ll take the advice here and write it all out, all of it, the rage, anger, pain, hurt, disbelief, disappointment, I thought I loved him, I know I love my baby. Nigella, what you wrote was simply amazing and I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to write out those questions they will help me so much to work through this.
My anger makes me want to write to him to tell him how terrible he is and my pain makes me want to write to him to try to get him to acknowledge my baby. I know it is futile and I’m stuck with it all. I’ve got to learn to accept it. I’m left here with the loss of something so precious to me and it’s still so incredibly painful. I need to let go and I’m trying so hard.
I can’t forget Alexander and just leave him there and when I think of him I then think of the AC and it’s so difficult to let go.
Lizzp, you said “I think you may be having a little trouble believing in your little baby’s and your own humanness right now but that belongs to him Lilly not you”.
This touched me so deeply because it’s true if I replace the word ‘humanness’ with ‘worth’ it says it all. To the AC we were worthless, but we aren’t and I mustn’t let him make me feel this way.
I’m truly, truly grateful to you ladies. You have helped me beyond words ………………..thank you.
Lilly,
Not a big deal that you responded to his email with a “Thank you” note. But ask yourself if sending such polite notes of gratitude is necessary. He can continue fishing for responses, but only *you* can decide whether to take the bait. You no longer have to accept his crumbs. I doubt the sky would fall if you do not reply to him. If acknowledging his emails is necessary, then at least consider not including the words “Thank you” in them. He is not the King of the Universe. Have confidence in your ability to carve a niche for yourself in your field *without* his assistance. You do not have to live under his shadow.
Be clear about what you expect to accomplish by expressing your anger & pain to him. Telling him that he is “despicable” is like telling a spitting cobra that he is poisonous. Doing so does not stop him from unleashing poison.
I doubt that shaming or browbeating him to acknowledge your child is going to make you feel better in the long run. Even if he cries or says sorry, you could never be sure if he means what he says. Saying sorry is easy. Treating others with care and respect is what counts. He has done enough damage.
You can stop serving yourself up to him to do more damage. If you expect to affect some change in him or hurt him, then I doubt you will get what you want. He could apologize & acknowledge your pain – and then go back to his sham-merry life. If you want to express your anger & pain just to *unburden* yourself, then that might help you to some extent. Still, you need to ask yourself:
1. Why did I put up with his cruel behavior?
2. How did I lie to myself about him?
3. What could have I done to protect myself from him?
Take good care of yourself, Lilly.
Lilly, After you answer the questions Nigella has suggested honestly to yourself, I hope you will begin to take care of yourself by deleting and blocking him from ever contacting you through work email again. You say in a comment above “maybe I am making excuses”, but you will use the email in a professional capacity. Lilly,yes you are making excuses. When you received that email it triggered feelings of worthlessness because it reminded you of how he treated you and still treats you – that is with a complete and utter disregard for your feelings, your humanness and your deceased babies humanness. I was glad to read you equated humanness with worth because what this ARSEHOLE does is communicate to you that in his world you have no worth as a human being. Your problem is that you are still tied up in ARSEHOLE’S world so that you take the unwritten communication to heart automatically.
Lilly, it is up to you now to remove this innately poisonous person from your life. It will continue to take time to get past this piece a ahuman stinking feaces (sp?) on an emotional level, however I think you do have the capacity to take very seriously the damaging nature of keeping yourself attached to a drip of his toxic poo runoff. Because that is what keeping the work email option open amounts to – a little injection of his stinking shite, it keeps you attached and keeps you addicted to a fantasy hope that runny smelly crap will one day transform to apricot nectar. Sure Lilly. As Nat writes why are you trying to sew a silk purse out of a pig’s ear? Though I’m buggered (Aust slang) if I’m going to insult those lovely (but yes smelly) intelligent and *empathetic* creatures by equating their ears with the leakage coming out of this sociopath’s bum. S So Lilly, you can’t create nectar out of poo or pond scum. I don’t care if you are a Noble Prize winning alchemist. It simply can’t be done.
Ok, so Lilly take yourself seriously, take your pain seriously, take his lethality goddamn seriously and cut the drip. You *will* move on.
Lilly, I am going to be blunt. I believe the “thank you” in your reply also reflects the nature of your fantasy/dream connection with him. Something like ‘if I show him what a polite and good, mature girl I am, he will think well of me and acknowledge me as a human being and respect me and our past’. To say thank you is to disrespect your own truth, your own feelings. You do know this on the deepest level. Thanking him is a negation of the *reality* of your connection as it is – a drip from him to you which now and then delivers a foul,lethal brew. A drip that you are free to dislodge from your blood stream.
Lizzp,
For their empathy and intelligence, I find pigs fascinating too – and I cringe to think of their unnecessary suffering in factory farms. Years ago I made the decision not to consume any animal products – people close to me have respected my decision even if they have chosen not to join me on this path of compassion for animals.
Your mention of pigs reminded me of a disconcerting episode. Despite our differences, I never felt the need to police or judge the ex for his eating choices. Unlike him, I did not find pork sausages appetizing – on discovering this simple fact he felt the need to tell me that he thinks I am “depriving” and “repressing” myself by refusing to consume animal products.
Far from appreciating or trying to find out why I choose not to consume animal products in any shape or form, he tried instead to make me second-guess a decision that is so close to my heart.
I have come to the realization that if someone ever again trivializes my compassion for factory-farmed animals or tries to make me doubt or defend my reasons for saying No to animals products, I will leave him or her.
I do not expect others to mirror or praise my choices. But I do expect them to reciprocate the respect I show them. Choosing not to consume animal products brings me peace and strength. This is my truth – and the fact is that the ex tried to convert my strength into a shortcoming. In an attempt to normalize or universalize his eating habits, he tried to undermine the faith I had in my choices. He could not digest our differences.
How in hell did I fall for him? Dashing looks. Charming words. Epic shags. Shared interests. Similar professions.
Shallow Hooks.
Never again.
Nigella,
That’s nice that you feel the same way about pigs. It seems that, like me, you are what I would call an “ethical vegetarian” (albeit a more ethical one than I am), as from what I understand you avoid eating animals owing to what they suffer prior to ending up as a packaged product. Most of the time I make a conscious effort not to eat “batterised” animals and in Aust that means pigs, sheep and many chickens. I do eat free range chickens and free range cows, which includes most cattle in this country. I also do not eat any baby animals – baby cows and of course baby pigs, baby octopus…the list goes on! I do not eat creatures like crabs or lobsters or any other sea creature that is regularly subject to being boiled alive en mass. When I was pregnant with my son I am sorry to say that I felt so compelled to eat bacon that I broke my resolve for a month or two.
I would have been dumbfounded and irritated by Liar’s response to your eating choices – sounds like he was compelled to pull some psuedo-intellectual claptrap to cover for his intolerance of your differences. A theme that I see emerging from your comments about him seems to be is inability to tolerate and accept your individuality. When it became clear to him that your were not malleable to his terms the distancing began. This is a man with little to no self awareness which makes Mr Liar a great name because his lack of ‘self’ makes his life and his way of ‘relating’ a fraud and a lie. Just one more reason he was simply just not good enough or a big enough person for you Nigella.
I commented above over the weekend to say hope you swam your heart out the other day and keep going down your own path friend.xo
Thank you for allowing the off topic Natalie and as ever the insightful articles. When time allows, I continue to read and benefit as always and feel that your writing has been an anchor in helping me to face myself.xo
Lizzp,
I swam my heart out & will do the same today. Your comment left me smiling. Thank you. Besides writing at BR, swimming is one of many activities I find cathartic. I’ve read your comments to others, and it’s heartening to hear that you’re pursuing your goals – yet not over-investing in their outcome – and taking time away from dating to face, rather than avoid, things that require *your* attention. From the bottom of my heart, I hope you’ll continue on your own path and someday find a man brilliant and beautiful enough to be worthy of your time & care.
Yes, I stay away from animal products strictly due to ethical reasons. I’m wary of donning labels but I qualify as a vegan: nothing I use or own comes from an animal. I don’t judge others for purchasing animal products. People are free to make their own choices. But if someone tells me – like he did – that I’m “depriving” myself, then I can’t connect to that person. You’re right. Mr. Liar couldn’t accept our *differences*.
Fortunately, I didn’t need him to approve of my choices. In addition to my work in the green industry, my commitment to a cruelty-free lifestyle is something that enlivens & anchors me. I’d feel lost & empty without the above two.
Like you, my sister is an ethical vegetarian, and she too ate meat during her pregnancy. It’s okay – and it’s best not to expect perfection from ourselves. You’re free to be you – and you’re beautiful.
Have a wonderful weekend.
Nigella, the only person depriving themselves of anything in your past relationship was him. For a start he deprived himself of getting to know you. Enjoy your swimming ( likewise, swimming is and always has been my main form of exercise. I also experience water as very cathartic.).
Lizzp,
Quick endnote: as an Aussie, you might appreciate that the writings of Peter Singer (Australian Philosopher) and John Kinsella (Australian poet & novelist) inspired me to embrace a cruelty-free lifestyle that is based on *empathy* – not just for people – but also for animals.
In case you might have time to read some of their works, I thought I’d mention them.
Nigella, So pleased that you mentioned Peter Singer.I almost mentioned him in my last comment but wanted to keep brief as off topic. His philosophy was the catalyst that moved me towards a more compassionate awareness of farm animals. It is also completely owing to Peter Singer that I have been sponsoring children through World Vision for over 14 years. I identified strongly with his work when I was coincidentally about your age (early 30s).
Lilly,
I really think you need to block him from your professional email. Whatever research you may need, cannot be worth the possibility of you returning to this married asshole.
As an earlier poster asked, what do you think you will gain by telling him who he is? What if he ignores you? What if he says he doesn’t feel anything. Then what? This is for you, and you alone. He was never there for you. You need to reach out to the people that care about you, as you will get nothing from him.
You need to start to move on from this guy, you just seem to stay in a position of stuck.
This man has shown you who he is, time and again. He is not capable of caring! You must leave him behind, for you and his family.
Lilly,
Like you, I said “Thank you” in my last email to the Liar. Like you, I made the mistake of replying too quickly – unnecessarily – to him. For months, I felt excruciating embarrassment for this misstep. By thanking him for emailing me, and for the good experiences he and I had, I thought I could end things on a polite note. The good girl in me thought I should put up a dignified and unruffled front – maybe if I did so, he might reconsider his decision and return to me. Yuck. How could I be so deluded? To put it mildly, it was injudicious of me to immediately fall for his apologies and excuses, and for the nice things he said about me in the email. Hastily, I gobbled up the crumbs. Yuck. The fact is that his email did not make up for his disappearance & disregard for my feelings. The fact is I owed him nothing. Lessons learned. I share this pathetic episode to encourage you not to repeat the mistake of *acting* in a polite manner towards anyone who disrespects you. Ignore them. Press delete or block.
Like Lizzp said, do not *disrespect* yourself by sending him polite replies. Flush him.
Nigella, I too sent a nice “Thank You” to the ex for which I kicked myself later. As you said, excruciating embarrassment. I also got a Last Talk with him in person, in which I was composed and calm while he was telling me he was dumping me for somebody else. He even thanked ME for not being angry with him, which he was clearly relieved about. I remember I was concerned that the encounter would be pleasant one – for HIM! I was so foolish… I thought I was being dignified, mature, taking the high ground. I wasn’t. I was actually abdicating my own responsibility to myself. I thought that by being the nice, polite girl he would actually “like me” more and be impressed. Ugh.
What I’ve learned since is that I can be both dignified AND angry at the same time. I can be a woman of grace AND stand up for myself. I can have poise and integrity AND speak my truth completely without mincing words.
It’s too late to practice this with the ex (even though there is a nagging part of me that still wants to) so I have to accept it as a lesson learned and move on. This has been hard, as it feels like there is unfinished business between us. After two years I still want to call him on the phone and say “Ok, I know how to be angry with you now and I’m going to finally tell you what I think of you!” Ridiculous. There is no unfinished business. It’s an illusion – it’s just an unfinished conflict within myself. I suspect that’s what Lilly is struggling with too.
Wiser,
Thanks for your comment. It helped me understand *what* I continue to feel about the epiphany relationship and *why*. The self-betraying “Thank You” note – along with a few other ways in which I doubted & discounted my feelings around him – had been gnawing at me.
Since I never got to confront him, I felt “there is unfinished business between us”, just as you feel about your relationship. The fact is there is no point confronting such people because they refuse to take responsibility for their actions. By hook or crook, they can justify whatever they do or say. It did not take me long to realize that the Liar rarely thought twice about blaming others for his decisions. In his eyes, he was always the sensitive soul in need of rescue and personal space from the people he dated.
It is futile giving such narcissistic people a piece of our mind let alone a place in our heart. Once their true colors show, the best strategy is not to *act* nice around them and to stay away from them.
You put it so well: “There is no unfinished business. It’s an illusion – it’s just an unfinished conflict within myself”. I need to remember your comment & forgive myself for the mistakes I made & feel good about the lessons I have learned in the past year.
“There is no unfinished business. It’s an illusion – it’s just an unfinished conflict within myself. ”
Wiser, that’s just perfectly insightful and something I will remind myself of to keep myself focused on my goals, my life and my own inner conflicts. Own our own and let others own theirs.
Nigella;
Absolutely spot on, rock solid advice. I know it’s meant for Lilly, but, I can use this for… everything! Thank you!
Lilly… some grief counselling for your baby dying? And YOU ARE VALUABLE. His actions have no bearing at all on your worth… independent facts. He is an insensitive arse and you are spectacular
rachael,
you are an angel and brought a smile to my face.
Let’s all hope Lilly is doing well, and took what advice she could and the actions best suited to her.
Lilia’s use of her imagination – picturing a a battle between good and evil – is a great tool.
I’m doing a lot of that. Trying to imagine a different future; imagining what it would be like to have a healthy, honest and trusting relationship (without specifically picturing who that person may be, look like etc.); taking care of myself.
It will pass. I’m eight weeks pass the split. The times when I’m “clear” and much more accepting are becoming greater. Yes there are times when the emotions want to boil over.
And yes, I even had those imaginary/fantasy conversations where I say just want I want to say to Miss Unavailable…
And it is just that – a fantasy.
I use positive affirmation:
“I was the honorable party in this relationship:
“I was the one who ended it with the dignity it needed, because Miss Unavailable lacked the emotional maturity to do so”
“I’ve got great friends to surround myself with.”
The thing about these people is that *they never take responsibility for their actions.”
Tell them they are wrong, and it only firms their belief they – not you – where right.
I
Mike,
So glad to hear of the effort you are putting into mending your heart. I can really relate to your words. Thanks for sharing your positive affirmations – they articulate messages I should be feeding to myself.
By no means am I perfect. But I do think that I showed care and respect to Mr. Liar throughout the relationship. Like Miss Unavailable, he chose not to find a way to exit gracefully. He went from blowing hot to lukewarm to cold in a short span. During the two-week run-up to the break-up, he started to pass snide comments cloaked as jokes, belittle my interests, backpedal on plans, make empty promises, text & email his friends in my company, ditch me for his friends, act too-busy-to-meet-me yet flaunt spending time with his friends through social media, dodge my questions regarding his past relationships and current “friendships”, withhold affection, engage in lazy communication, and mislead me by choosing not to share his actual feelings or hesitations about the relationship.
Far from speaking the truth in person, he disappeared for ten days and dropped me a break-up email to assuage his own sense of guilt. Like you said, such people do not take responsibility for their actions. One way or another, they exculpate themselves and save face by offering apologies and excuses for their behavior.
I made the mistake of falling for his future-faking, misinterpreting his actions, overlooking red flags, not asking him the right questions, over-giving, trusting his words, and sending an overly *polite* reply to his last email. But after some time, I realized that I do not buy any of his apologies or lousy reasons for not having a conversation with me to end the relationship. I resent that he blindsided and deceived me by not sharing his true feelings in person. Reading other BR stories, I am disgusted & saddened to hear of the ease with which people cough up self-exonerating claims: “I remained silent and disappeared because I feared disappointing you. I rushed into things. Sorry. I am *scared* of getting hurt in a relationship. I have too much on my plate and I am not *ready* for anything serious.”
If they are so scared of getting hurt or hurting others or scared of settling down & missing out on things, then they should not be dating – at least not be dating someone looking for a committed relationship. But I have learned that this simple thing does not make sense to the EU types. I think your experience with Miss Unavailable resonates with me because both Miss Unavailable and Mr. Liar overestimated their capacity to be in a committed relationship. Instead of confronting their limited capacities, such people dig a hole for themselves by telling lies to themselves and others about how much they would like to fall in love and settle down. But as soon as one resists giving into all their demands or refuses their crumbs, they climb out of the hole they have been digging and leave the other person in a pit of darkness.
I have come to accept that I will always be in the dark about the things he actually thought about me or did behind my back. I take comfort in knowing that next time I will be far more careful: even if someone overestimates their interest in me, I need not make the same mistake they are making. Even if they might be lying to themselves and to me, I need not participate in their fibs or half-truths.
I can exit gracefully. Thanks for highlighting this in your affirmations, Mike – our ability to end things with dignity. Your affirmations are uplifting – a positive reflection of you.
“Instead of confronting their limited capacities, such people dig a hole for themselves by telling lies to themselves and others about how much they would like to fall in love and settle down.”
Nigella~
This summarizes my experience perfectly. In the end, the ex would fabricate lies about our relationship (and I think really believe them also), all so he wouldn’t need to look at his own behavior and his inability to deal with his commitment issues. It became clear that he would rather hurt me and blame me, than look at the root of his problems. He apologized a million times. But I just see those sorries as excuses, as yet another form of avoidance. I couldn’t take it anymore and have been NC for five months. I am so proud! Sometimes I struggle still, but I try to remind myself that the fact that I can remain NC while I am struggling is a sign of strength, not weakness.
I know that for my next relationship, whenever that happens, I am looking for someone who knows himself (and many more things). I think it’s funny and sad that I never had requirements before. I was very, very lucky early on in my dating life, and dated a couple of amazing guys. But my absence of (conscious) standards got me into trouble later on. Now I have quite a long list! And I have a long list of things I need to work on as well..
We will never know what moves people in their minds.
We can’t rationalise with the irrational, it’s a waste of our time.
All we can do in the end is to just accept as best we can that whatever it was is over and walk away with some pride and dignity.
There is no point in trying to get someone to see our point or validate our pain and anger when they don’t want to and they don’t care one little bit. God knows I’ve tried in the past and only made everything worse.
When I finally dumped the AC and went NC, that was it, no shaming no blaming, I walked away with my dignity intact and I’m so glad I did, the urge was overwhelming at times to tell him exactly what I thought of him but it would have been water off the ducks back, he’s been there done that many times before me no doubt about it.
NC is the only way, no matter how much it hurts, I made a promise to myself that I wouldn’t lose my personal dignity to a waste of space like him. And I’ve kept my promise.
I saw him last week, he’s leaving Australia this week to live in the UK permanently. I agreed to meet him and I’m glad I did, I saw what a phoney, lying, shallow man he really is. He was so polite and courteous, bending over backwards to be nice to me (I nearly threw up in my lunch.)
I wished him Bon voyage, all the best in his new life and said GOODBYE.
Hehe! Personal dignity intact.
I just had a guy illicit me for electronic Facebook sex. He’s an aquaintance from another town I used to live in.
It was hillarious. I let it go on a bit because I was so amused (and increasingly turned off).
I shut it down pretty quick, though (I got sleepy anyway).
Thank god for BR. Had I no boundaries, I might be wasting precious sleep time on what would be a very uncomfortable situation.
Oh, the gents of Facebook.
Ah, to clarify: This guy was looking to get busy via messaging through Facebook.
Phone sex is so 1990.
Hi Sofia,
Well together you & I will get through this. I went out after seeing him driving around. I had a nice time with friends & we talked about actions matching words. I thought about how my actions didn’t match my words in the relationship & neither did his. I think they started out matching but then after not paying attention to the red flags it went sideways from there. It really does take you away from your true self & creates conflict & unhappiness. I just don’t know what my true self wants anymore- how do I figure that out?
Brandy, I think to figure out what your true self wants – you need to find out who your true self is. I have just started learning and I am 36. I was never completely comfortable being single. There would always be exes or potentials occupying my head or I would emerge myself into a new relationship too intensely. That’s the thing.
You have to allocate some time spending with your self. One year maybe or several months I don’t know. I have been single for 2 months now. I do all the things I need to do to stay busy but the truth is that It doesn’t help to not think of him and cry over him. It just doesn’t. I can only hope that time helps. Do I know what I want myself? I just want health for myself and my daughter. Peace and stability.
For myself as a woman: I would like to have a partner who will love me for who I am, won’t pick on me, manage my expectations, control the level of intimacy whether emotional or physical, someone who won’t be greedy with his time for me and my daughter, someone who doesn’t do everything on his timing and schedule. In other words,a man who will respect and love me for ME, without me having to change anything about me, to prove anything to him. I had couple relationships in which I felt myself. You know how it feels? I remember I used a phrase to describe this feeling. It is like when you are around the person, you are not even aware sometimes that he is there. Not in a bad sense that you don’t notice him, I mean, you feel so comfortable around him, so yourself, it’s like he is not even there. You are not conscious of your actions and thoughts and words all the time. In the beginning of a relationship of course we are all conscious, but I mean, after some time, when intimacy progresses and you are tuned into each other, you know when the person is right for you when you feel like that. So free and happy to be You around him or without him. I experienced the feeling before and know what it is. You will know what you want when you are comfortable with yourself and with a person you are with.
Hi all
I’m new to the site and I just wanted to say how nice it is reading all the comments and seeing how supportive everyone is of each other.
I started seeing someone a few months ago. We talked on the phone every day, would meet up, and he respected when I said I didn’t want to have sex outside a relationship. After a month we had a conversation about exclusivity, which we both agreed to honour. He also told me he was not looking for a relationship.
At first, this didn’t bother me, so it only felt like a hypothetical problem. As it was otherwise all going great, I carried on. I think I thought I could change his mind, or maybe I didn’t believe him.
Although I got a lot out of this book (it prompted me to end things when I started to feel bad), I am also confused, angry and rejected. I can’t even make myself feel better by persuading myself he was an assclown – he wasn’t. But it hurts that he would rather us end even though it was so good, and he was clearly upset when I ended it too xxx
“After a month we had a conversation about exclusivity, which we both agreed to honour. He also told me he was not looking for a relationship”
wtf? contradiction?
Meagan, you did the right thing. If he said he didn’t want a relationship – he didn’t. Imagine dragging this out for a year, like I did and he broke up finally after I said, “are you with me or not?” My ex in the beginning said, ” I want a relationship, but nothing like moving in, settling down, marrying, family. Ijust want to have fun now in a long-term relationship.” If I had read Nat’s posts and the book back then, I would know what that meant, ” I want a casual exclusive relationship with you but don’t even dream about me moving in with you.” He was honest with me. I was the one who chose to be strung along when everything was clearly indicated at the start and throughout the relationship, with me checking his commitment status periodically and him, dutifully and CONSISTENTLY, saying ” I am not sure yet if. ” Every time I asked him he would say, ” I am not sure about us yet.” How was that not a red flag. You are lucky, Meagan, you came across this site soon enough. Will save you from a heartbreak. I have been in a wrenching pain for 2 months after breakup. Could have reduced that by ending things myself after the honey moon 4-5 months phase was over.
Meagan,
I am glad you got out of an exclusive-yet-casual arrangement before getting too attached to the fellow. It is good that at least he did not string you along by lying to you or overestimating his capacity to offer you all that you deserve.
How puzzling is that phrase: exclusive yet casual? Is it E or C? In my mind this translates as: “I am committing only to you yet I am not really committing”. To solve this puzzle, the following dialogue pops into mind – a dialogue that might take place after dating someone for at least two months and before deciding to have sex with them.
I: “I need some clarity – are you interested in being in a committed relationship with me?”
Doublespeak reply: “I am interested in dating only you. I want this to be long-term – not just for sex. But I am not promising anything definite or serious”.
I: (Thinking: you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Basically you want it both ways – to commit & not to commit at the same time. Do you really think I have time for such ambiguity? Generally I am wary of binaries, but it can be either exclusive or casual. Not Both.) “Oh, I see. Thanks for clarifying. I am not interested in your exclusive-yet-casual offer (because although you say that you are committing only to me, you are actually not committing to me). Bye now.”
Thanks to one of the posts Natalie recently wrote, I found the language to *differentiate* between two types of relationships that on the surface seem to be alike but are in fact quite far apart from one another. Both relationships offer exclusivity: one is exclusive-yet-casual and another is exclusive-and-committed.
Once and for all, I have realized that an exclusive-yet-casual relationship holds no attraction for me. I prefer to be on my own rather than sign up for such an arrangement because – once one puts aside the rhetorical fluff used to describe this arrangement – it is simply an arrangement involving crumbs rather than meaningful commitments. Maybe some people are content to be mutually feeding crumbs to one another – this is genuinely the most they can give-and-take and not feel burdened, overwhelmed, or smothered. Good for them.
I cannot speak for you but I find noncommittal crumb-offering people rather unattractive. However boring or terrifying this might be for some solo-driven souls, for me it is exciting to be around clear-headed and commitment-oriented people who know (1) who they are, (2) what they want, and (3) what they can offer in a relationship. This is sexy – a sign of maturity and emotional stability.
I think it is illusory to think that an exclusive-yet-casual relationship can grow into an exclusive-and-committed one. Maybe for some people this does happen. But for most this line of progression is nothing more than an idle fantasy that eats up their time and leaves them feeling hungry.
Meagan, it is great you opted out after realizing that you were “feeling bad”. The arrangement did not satisfy your needs. I see that you feel rejected and confused by the end of something that seemed good. But the fact is Meagan that it was not good enough. Do not lower your standards just because someone else has lowered his standards and expectations. Do not settle for crumbs.
In an exclusive-and-committed relationship, both people are happily & consistently offering their care, time, attention, and respect to one another. They make plans together. They create things together. They bring out the best in one another. They share responsibilities and joys. Together, they shine brighter.
Stay true to your feelings and standards – you will find the person ready to commit to you.
Nigella, you just described my relationship!! Exclusive yet casual. He was “decent,” I keep repeating this because he said very early, that we are exclusive and I want a long-term relationship with you. Later he said he is committed to me, when I was about to break up after 3-4 months into a relationship because it was continuing to be too casual and he won’t even call me his girlfriend at that point. Once he realized it was about to be over, he said he was committed to me. Time fast forward, commitment meant exclusivity. It didn’t mean building the relationship, becoming closer, progressing. None of it. It remained the same: consistent and predictable – casual and committed. I should have bailed out a long time ago. I kept waiting. The guy didn’t want me as a person with whom he could commit. How could I not understand that back then , I don’t know. Good job, Meagan for bailing out so early.
Meagan,
The exclusive-yet-casual setup sounds like he wants you to be exclusive with him, while he keeps his options open.
Meagan
We do tend to ignore red flags at the start of seeing someone we like. You’re right when you said it didn’t seem too important at the time, you basically didn’t know the guy and like most of us you kept going out with him to see what would happen and there’s nothing wrong with that. He liked you too and respected your wishes about no sex without a commitment.
You had the presence of mind to end it when you started feeling bad and your needs for a committed relationship weren’t being met and that’s very good, you do know what you want and he wasn’t providing it.
Don’t feel angry or confused, your own inner boundaries kicked in even though on the surface you’re really annoyed he didn’t fight for you.
You rejected him, he didn’t reject you.
You’ve dodged a bullet which I think you know that’s why you felt bad and that’s why you dumped him. Listen your your inner voice or gut it won’t let you down.
When someone tells you who they are as in I’m not looking for a relationship – he means you, the person he’s talking to – listen to them and walk away if that’s not what you are looking for.
Lilly,
I believe things may become easier, when except the man for who he is, and not who you want him to be. I don’t believe he was ever a decent man, and he wil never change. You must see him for who he is.
Meagan,
Some people just do not want to commit. And it’s really painful for the people who love them and want them too.
It doesn’t mean he doesn’t care or that he doesn’t miss you/feel anything for you; he, for whatever reason, isn’t in it in terms of a commited relationship.
Still, you need to move on and find someone who wants what you want. He’s not going to change unless it’s on his own accord and for him.
Thank you, Peanut, for reminding me about that. My ex admitted that when breaking up with me. That he just can’t commit. Honest like he was during the relationship. And he said I am not the right person for him. Wait a second, if you can’t commit, is there a RIGHT person for you?? I have been sad about not being the RIGHT person for him. It is irrational I know but you can’t help the feelings. I keep forgetting the fact that when a person can’t commit yet or EVER, there is nothing one can do. There might be a RIGHT person for him somewhere. I read this book recommended by someone here, “He is Scared, She is Scared,” I think that’s the title. I am still reading it. And it clearly states that the person who doesn’t want to commit will find every possible flaw in you, so that he will justify later or very soon why you are not the right person for him. It hit home really hard when I realized that is what happened when he critized and picked on me even in the beginning: my clothes, music, movies choice, my life style, etc. It was not offensive but more like constant teasing/joking, which in itself is offensive and disrespectful. But now, looking back I see what he did. He put up barriers and protection for himself to not commit to me even if he fell for me, but he would find so many things that are wrong with me or different from how he is, that it will be a great justification, “you are not the right person for me and well… yes, I am not committed too.”
Sometimes though, I just think, maybe it’s as simple as he fell out of love with me? And all of these reading is overanalyzing and protecting myself from hurt? I don’t know… I get confused sometimes, how do we know when people fall out of love and when people are very confused, non-committed and scared. It seems with my ex he had feelings for me through the end. When he ended he said it hurts for him too. He has feelings for me (not the same anymore but still feelings – perhaps he confused that being fallen in love doesn’t last forever – that these feeling do change when intimacy is the next step and familiarity kicks in around a year mark) and cares for me a lot. But he doesn’t see us long term.
Oh it is all confusing…. Feels like he just ran away. I guess he is noncommittal, I mean it is so obvious sometimes and then I go in circles thinking maybe he found someone else, or lost the feelings, not meant to be, blah blah blah.
It seems like I will never find out WHY, no matter how many books I read. Anybody has that feeling? And knowing we will never find the answer and closure, you would think it would be so easy to let go the unknown, inexplicable, uncontrollable and just let go?
Sigh…..
Do people, those who break up, the fairly normal ones, not ACs but some EU though, do they ever come back after few months? Anybody had that happening that to them? I don’t wait for him, no. I feel confident he won’t. But if I still wonder, I guess there is a glimpse of hope deep inside me. … I am not over yet. So far not over. Only 2 months. Will work on this and heal and focus on my life without him. I am trying my best…
Sadly, even when two people have the best intentions and aren’t AC, EU or sociopathic it can still come to end.
And it may not even be love that is lost. People’s expectations change, or their life goals. There are 1000s of reasons. Some make sense, many don’t.
Some people reconcile, and others don’t.
Sadly, nothing can be said with 100% certainty. Even now my mind can wander to hoping that “Sorry, I made a mistake” phone call may come.
All I know is that I sit around waiting, I may do that for years.
The best thing I can do is live my life.
Even when your thoughts keep turning to that person, you can “fake it till you make it”.
Keep your body and mind active, even when those intrusive thoughts come. That’s what I’m doing. It helps. When I feel that anxiety I get up and move, give myself an affirmation and calm down.
Reading everyone else’s experiences here reminds me that what I’m experiencing is normal and healthy. This is like week 9 for me. That’s still a pretty raw time. I wish I could think less about it, but the thoughts are far less painful.
I try and imagine myself in six months time. I give myself small and big projects to fill my time. They don’t always distract but I feel better for getting a task done.
As you say, one day at a time.
Mike, we are on the same schedule. It is very raw and I do too think how I am going to feel in 6 months. Right now, it’s a day at a time. Do you feel lonely and missing her even when you are out and busy doing activities. Like being with your friends, with your child? Do you feel you wish she would be here? To share the time or at least call her later and share the experience with her? It hurts me so much that I am trying to enjoy my time and I can’t fully because I keep thinking I wish he were here to share the experience with me directly or indirectly. I hope this is temporary and will go away soon. Because even if I am trying my best to move on, he is in my thoughts everywhere almost. It has to be just because I am still fresh and raw. I hope so much it will get better.
Oh and about waiting for the phone call, “Made a mistake.” The second this idea crosses my mind, I shut it down. I don’t want to even hope or wonder. I am confident he will never call me. Iknow him well enough ( I think I do) that if he said “that’s it,” then that’s it. So that makes it “easier” to move on.
I wanted to add: yes – it’s not necessarily that either person is bad, EU, AC, or you name it. Sometimes people just decide they don’t want what they wanted 6 months ago. It’s sad and hurtful, but what can you do? Marriages end, long-term relationships end. I don’t want to sound EU myself, like my ex used to say, “no relationship lasts.” In a sense that’s true. Every relationship ends. Either in death or the breakup. It hurts and all we can do is to heal and go on with our lives.
Meagan,
When someone tells you that they can’t do a relationship, believe them. It will save you a lot of heartache.
Please, never enter a relationship thinking you can change someone’s mind. It’s not fair to you, or them.
It’s been two years since I walked out on ex AC. I thought I would never get over him. Intellectually I was well over him. But at times, I wondered if I would ever get over the heartache. I have read this website a lot over the last two years. But then, unexpectedly, I met the most amazing man who I have been dating for three months. I have put everything I have learned from this website into practice, and Natalie, I cannot thank you enough. I approached this relationship with a very healthy and honest heart and mind. My new man has one thing that tops everything. He treats me with absolute respect and it is a wonderful thing. It is so different and I now just look back at laugh at what an AC I was once involved with. I saw AC last week at a function and I just felt nothing but a little bit sorry for him. Natalie, thank you again for this website and thank you for giving me the tools to find (well, stumble upon when I least expected it) the kind of relationship I have always wanted.
Fernleaf, I am happy for you. It is motivational to read your story. That you recovered. That gives us all hope. How long had you been with your AC? When would you say you fully recovered? How long did it take? My ex was not AC. Just non-committed and perhaps EU.Otherwise fairly normal, I would say. It’s great to hear you found a man who respects you and that the lessons on this site helped you. This site has already been helping me and I have been reading it for 2 months only. I will never approach a new relationship with the same attitude again. In fact, I can’t believe that was Me when I started dating him and throughout the relationship. It was a different person. I can’t believe it was Me.
Fernleaf – I like what you said ‘intellectually I was well over him, but at times, I wondered if I would get over the heartache.’ I think sometimes this is me. I finally KNOW I don’t want him or that he’s right for me but I continue to carry around hurt/heartache. I guess emotionally I am not over him. I am hoping that I will organically meet someone through friends or social outings with groups. I am not sure I want to do the online thing again.
Were you still carrying the heartache when you meet this new man? If so, did the heartache fade once you started getting to know him? What worked for you?
Hi Everyone I have been in a holding pattern relationship for close to 4 years :'( Up and down on and off.. He tells me he loves me(text).. typically doesn’t call me.. Usually only sees me when he needs to.. I told him I feel like I’m on layaway and being used. His list of excuses for not being “IN” the relationship changes often. But I Love Him. How is this my reality? Help I have been getting stronger and have been pulling away from him…. But how do I truly let go of him when I feel like we were meant to grow old together? I feel like I am crazy for hanging onto him and this thought of our future together.. Especially because he can’t/won’t/doesn’t give me the present. :/ Brenda
Brenda,
I think you have answered your own question.
Clearly his inaction shows that he is not in the relationship, and will continue the status quo, as it’s easy. He’s getting his needs met. Words are very easy. Do the actions of a man that you rarely speak to or see, reflect a man that is in love. No! Do you only meet up when he wants sex?
You say you love him, but you really need to start loving yourself. This relationship has no future, and he is clearly stringing you along for his own needs. The longer you stay in this type of situation, the more difficult and devaluing it becomes.
Please don’t waste another four years. Get out and understand what kept you here so long.
Brendab,
“He tells me he loves me(text).. typically doesn’t call me.. Usually only sees me when he needs to.. I feel like I’m on layaway and being used…But I Love Him.”
why?
Hi Brenda, I am in agreement with Allison (her recent comment and the one further up) with the emphasis on you knowing the answer already. He is hanging around only because you are hanging around…and for what, for the miniscule effort (which you clearly see going by your description of his behaviour) he now and then throws your way. The next step from pulling away is to stay away and truly letting go of him (disentangling from his lame excuses and the growing old vision) will come once you do so. Much warmth your way.
I don’t think this fits here, but I’m desparate and didn’t know where to put it, or where to go or what to do.
I can’t let him go, it’s like I’m pulling out my internal organs. Like keeping him connected to me emotionally is holding me up, literally holding my insides together, helping me to breath and pump my blood. Stay sane, stay calm with him near physically or in my mind. Know who I am when he is with me. Without him, I am empty, nothing inside anymore, nothing without him. Seriously nothing without him. Panic and anxiety just that’s all there is. I CAN’T let him go emotionally. Impossible. I’ve known him over 22 years, he is all I’ve known outside my fragmented, broken birth family. He was my family in between all the break ups and on/off’s, my greatest friend, my only friend. He was always gentle and helpful, lent me money, helped me move house etc. But still dumped me on a few occasions, and then tried to support me through the break up, as I couldn’t cope. He has seen me broken and helped me with so many things, but never as a wife or partner, always at an arms distance – but can you blame him – no. He is 50 and only seems to want long distance relationships now. I am 43, no children for me now. I feel like I’m tied to him like a cord, I will go mad if I have to let him go emotionally. The last 6 months, I have had to keep away, and I’ve only seen him twice for dinner/coffee. He seems fine as usual. He phoned me up drunk a few months ago, saying he missed and loved me, despite being in a long distance relationship. He apologised about that phone call later. I didn’t want him to apologise. But I didn’t respond, I thought I was over him, but I wasn’t, I never am. He is in a long distance relationship now, that’s all he says he wants. There is nothing I can do, I just live in the past now. I can’t form other relationships. I have dated via internet, but I don’t want anyone close. I can’t do it. Though Im desparately lonely and spend most time alone, which makes me sad, anxious and depressed, with suicidal feelings. I have had suicidal feelings on/off for years, never acted on them though, I won’t now either. It’s very traumatic though.
Catherb,
What you are going through, sounds so hard, and deeply traumatic.
It is so good, you had the strength and courage to post on this site.
I was in a very similar situation to you and over the years as a result of professional consistent help, and reading sites such as BR, have managed to move away from a set up such as yours. It has taken every bit of strength I had, but I found myself in the process. I can’t say I am fully “cured”, don’t believe that actually exists…but now I have boundaries, expectations, and I know the triggers and I walk away, as soon as I get a whiff of that kind of man again. 43 is not old, I am nearly 47, there is so much to learn in life, there are lots of good people out there, young women to mentor and educate, once you find your strength…life is not and cannot be about, one man for any woman.Please take care and keep posting and asking for help
Thank you Louise – I’m glad you found your way, well done. I felt like such a freak with my post, i didn’t think anyone else would have felt quite that bad, it’s nice to be understood. I always knew i was dependent on him, but never really faced it fully. I don’t think I’ve got the courage. When I feel like I can face the day, it’s when I feel like there may be a chance for us again, so I’m really not letting go. I maintained a friendship with him for years after we finally finished, but I never faced the break up back then. I think he would be hurt if I was not to be friends with him at all. I don’t want to lose his friendship, really I can’t. do i really need to? Can I do it another way? A couple of years ago we ‘tried again’ he did try I think as best he could, but it was my anxieties that really drove it to the ground, and he wouldn’t give it another chance after that. Since then I have kept my distance a bit more, which has been hard; but I can’t handle this new relationship he is in. I don’t know, it feels so confusing. I don’t think I can live my life like this, so traumatised all the time, it is very exhausting. I’m not sure how to change after all these years. Thank you again. x
Catherb, I really think you need to concentrate on solely you and go NC asap. He is in a relationship with somebody else, and this focus on him and what is going on there, is damaging you deeply. You can overcome stuff, but you need to make you a priority, your main thing has to be Catherb’s health and recovery. Your ability to express yourself, in your responses, shows me that you are someone who is intelligent and has lots to offer. We can never make a man, the sole reason to get up in the morning, especially somebody else’s guy.Swap your addiction to him, to making you well. You deserve it, people will show up and help you,xx
Hi Louise, I’m not sure I can do no contact. he has been such a pivotal figure in my life, helping me out when my family haven’t been there etc. I have limited contact much more over the last 6 months – to the extent that I cancelled a birthday present/event that I had organised for him. And I have not emotionally ‘relied’ on him the way I used to, so that feels like a little step to make. I have kept him at more of a distance, but that’s all I feel I can do. is life always as clear cut as that, after knowing someone for 20+ years? It makes my cry and tear up everytime I think of having to do that, and I don’t think it’s possible. I will try and continue with building myself up, I will find some counselling etc, but i can’t just cut him off. Is this something I really have to do to get myself healthy? I understand that maybe its an addiction, I don’t know. It’s not a physical relationship anymore, and hasn’t been for a long time. It never was physical when we weren’t actually together. It feels like I would be cutting out a member of my family. It looks like I really am a mess!!
….but saying that, I know I’m not getting what I really want from him, which is a partnership and everything that goes with that, so that upsets me, and will upset if/when I ever do see him. he said of his current relationship that is long distance and will never be anymore than that, and he doesn’t want to live with anyone. And I that obviously includes me. So I got completely emotionally dependent on someone who can never give me what I need. How stupid am I?
catherb,
I thought I’d replied to this so my apologies if you wind up with 2..
Firstly, I’m so sorry for how you feel. You WILL get through it, and be assured that most people who’ve posted on here have experienced similar feelings, you’re in the right place for recovery.
I relate to what you say because my family is also fragmented and I spent most of my adult life with a man in my life who I thought was my rock, but who also kept me at arms length or close whenever suited him. He was incredibly helpful and supportive at times, seemed to ‘get me’ like no other, and losing him was unthinkable. The 2 are linked because sadly, we lose sight of what a loving relationship looks like and so we allow crumbs of affection and inconsistency to become ‘normal’.
This man does not hold you together, does not help you to breathe and pump your blood, and you will not go mad if you let him go, you will not be empty without him. He is an addiction. Just like you start to feel increasingly below par when you’ve stubbed out a cigarette, and the only way to stop feeling anxious and be ‘ok’ again is to have another cigarette, when in fact that cigarette is the problem, not the solution – so it is with this man. If you stop your dependency on him, the anxiety and panic will go, I can tell you this from experience. I remember being cowed in the corner of a room, in panic, barely able to move, for a day or so when he didn’t show up at a time when I needed him. But I found only peace when I walked away and took control over my life, no longer waiting for this unreliable and inadequate fix, and what’s more felt so much more complete.
Are you saying he’s in a long distance relationship with you or someone else? I gather that he calls the shots? And in the meantime, you can’t be interested in anyone else because as you say, you’re living in the past and holding everything up to the best times without truly seeing the entire painful reality or knowing that you need love, care and respect.
You are not empty, you do not have nothing inside – this simply isn’t true and I think you can lose this belief quite easily, again going on experience. You’re relying on another person for your self-esteem and he is acting broadly in his own interests, not yours, regardless of the times when he’s helped you. You need to reclaim your identity, think about what you’ve achieved, what you like doing, what you don’t like doing, what you would like to try. You also need to grieve for your lack of family and become your own parent, instead of looking to distant people to do this for you. It does sadly leave a huge void in our lives when family is broken, and it’s hard to overcome it, but no one person can or should fill it. It will take work to feel complete again but will make you so much happier. Spend less time alone by joining support/interest groups, getting exercise etc.
I have good hopes for you because you’re at rock bottom – you’re in despair and you know your dependence is a problem, so the healing can begin.
Hugs to you x
Thank you for your long reply, and for the replies of the others; and for sharing about yourself. It was amazing that you and others understood, I felt like such a freak posting that message. It was straight from my gut yesterday, whilst I was composing a different message to him, and stopped, because I knew I wasn’t addressing what was really going on for me. the addiction stuff was interesting, i never thought of it like that before. And yes he replaced a lot of what I needed to get from family, and no one can do that. I don’t know if I can lose him completely, I don’t have many people in my life.
no, he is in a long distance relationship with someone else. Actually about a year and half ago, he asked me to move in which I did, but I seriously ruined it for so many reasons. he did try, he wasn’t perfect. I was very hard work . So I have a lot of anger towards myself about that, and feel like I need to fix it, but he wouldn’t give it another chance after that. I have had a history of anxiety/depression.
I guess i still think ‘if i can get my act together’ than maybe he will give us another chance again. That must be my addiction, but it makes me feel like I can face the day a bit more. I think i’ve tried to do that with other people before not just him, friendships etc – you know looking for a family, looking for emotional support. I do feel like a needy child a lot…still. I don’t like that about myself and need to try and change it, but it’s hard to know how; it’s such a powerful, gut feeling. I’m not sure how to reclaim my identity, i’m not sure what/who that is. When I met him when I was 21, i was very immature, and had already missed some emotional milestones I think.
I’m grieving and angry for the life I could have had with him, friendship, companionship, stability (financially as well), a life. A life I feel I have had and crave so much. But I’ve put myself in this situation, it’s hard to change especially when you don’t know how. It feels like I need to change my whole self, which feels overwhelming and impossible. More familiar and harder to sink into victimhood.
Thank you again, and for the hugs.
catherb, though it doesn’t add up, the relationship you’ve had with this man is depleting you. you say you have no one else, but this is because you’ve invested all of you in him. In short, life is lonelier with than without him. I know it doesn’t make sense, but it’s incredibly lonely to experience constant distancing from someone, and in this way, having a bit of someone is worse than having nothing.
You’re blaming yourself for everything and while it’s good to take responsibility for your part, it looks like you’re not being compassionate to you, would you be so mean to anyone else going through what you’re going through? Have a look at this post and the links in it https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/perspective-takes-the-sting-out-of-rejection-its-broken-youre-not/
You’re right about being too vulnerable for internet dating right now. I like the way you’re so honest about your position now, that’s why I think you’re on the road to recovery. You can learn a lot on here and I recommend you take Nat’s self esteem course if you can. It’s overwhelming but once you’ve identified the problem, there are lots of answers and support on here to stop feeling lonely or needy and be the best you can be. Do call helplines and get as much support as possible from counselling etc. as well.
Hugs again
Hi, thanks, I’m going to get some counselling. I don’t think I can do ‘no contact’ with himever forever though, that feels unimaginable to be honest. He has always been there, and yes I know, from a distance and not as a true partner, but he has always been there; and I just can’t face anymore loss in my life. I wonder if I can ever get to the stage where just being a friend is okay. He said his current relationship is long distance with no chance of it ever becoming more than that, as he doesn’t feel like he can live with anyone anymore. I dont’ know anymore. I’ve tried to limit contact for the last few months, but that’s all I think i can do. To cut him out my life completely seems unimaginable. Is it not possible that some people are meant to stay in your life in some way or another? Is life as clear cut as all that. Perhaps if I had done this years ago, it might have been easier, but years ago, I didn’t see how dependent I was on him emotionally, and he was always about, sometimes helping me to sort myself out, when my family weren’t there. It feels to entrenched to break. This maybe means i cannot move on or find someone else, and maybe I’ll just be alone, which is sad. I don’t know if NC is the answer though for me – is it? I’ll find some counselling. Thanks.
catherb, the problem is that you’re living your life for someone who doesn’t want a relationship, trying to ‘please the unpleasable’. This has nothing to do with your worth as a person but is just how he/it is. He is in some way committed to another person so you’re set up for pain.
I don’t think you realise that you’re going through the perpetual loss of him as long as you attach your emotions to him, because we don’t realise how terribly painful it is until we’re free of it. So it is important for you to take up counselling and to reach out to services and people if you have terrible thoughts, but I hope you realise too that trying to fix yourself while keeping a situation going that depletes you has its challenges. I say this as someone who did a lot of counselling while I was putting all my worth into someone who picked me up and dropped me on his own whims. I am grateful for it, would not reverse it, but I also see in hindsight that I spent a lot of time trying to work out ‘what is wrong with me’ and went off on a few red herrings, becoming far too focused on my flaws and loving myself even less, when really HE was what was wrong with me! It is that simple in hindsight.
Of course we have to ask ourselves very deeply why we’re emotionally dependent, who we are etc., but I don’t think you can address these questions unless you go NC, and if you go to counselling to be a better person for him and not for you, you won’t get the best out of it. Please keep posting on here, so many people will understand.
thanks for your thoughtful replies happy b. I understand. I think this is the start of process, i don’t feel strong to rush. just messaging on here and hearing the replies has helped me already, and has started the process i think. x
ps. when I have tried to do internet dating etc, i go through the motions, but what I’m really scared of is that fact that I know I’m vulnerable and I have little trust. I’m scared of getting hurt again, i’m scared of meeting someone horrible who will hurt me in an even worse way. i don’t trust myself! My ex’s manner is gentle and kind, so I felt ‘safe’ with him, in that respect.
You can’t judge a person on good points/times alone, and you can never make the decision to stay based on those ‘good times’ or the way a person makes you feel if you want to avoid heartache. It’s about character really. And how a person is in conflict.
And of course, values, values, values.
I felt like cloud nine with the ex sometimes–he was oh so handsome, sweet, and charasmatic, yet, during conflict he would go into a rage and blame me. It was sad and scary.
Scary cancels out any good. No, my ex is not a monster, but he is not a proper partner. This is serious stuff–breaking no contact–toxic relationships by their very nature are dangerous.
The key to beating nostalgia is staying in the present. Sure, I miss the cuddling, but I am alone. Why am I alone? Because I chose to cut contact with someone who was not overall good for me and I needed time to heal.
Even sociopaths and murderers can have ‘good points,’ i.e., nice looks, a good job, money, charm…or whatever. It’s all about character. And values. Nothing more, nothing less.
A bad eu man doesn’t come growling bathed in blood (though I’m sure some do and there are women who would still take them); you have to keep boundaries intact and watch people unfold.
catherb,
You need a competent, safe therapist stat.
Also, never be afraid to call a suicide hotline. I have. It helped; I am here.
What you are going through has very little to do, if at all, with dating. Your problems are rooted in your childhood (far deeper than just fancying a man).
You need help with this from safe people; you can’t do it alone. It’s too much.
My gut is aching and twisting for you; I’ve been there.
Several years ago I thought I’d die without a man who was violent toward me (just like my father). The truth is I could have died with him and getting away (no contact) is what saved me.
Your mind/feelings will play tricks on you. Why? I have no idea. (Subconscious fear of the unknown even if the unknown is good I guess).
Don’t let the lies you believe that cause you to feel terrible win. Fight ’em.
You have a right to be here. It is your human right to exist. Look in the mirror and say twenty times if you need to, “I HAVE A RIGHT TO BE HERE.” You do.
I have fought suicidal thoughts and attempts for twenty years. You can come out on the other side. You can overcome this and have a happy life.
You deserve it.
Hugs to you. My God I feel for you and hope you get through this.
Thank you peanut. Thanks for your sharing your experiences with me, and making me feel not quite such a freak. I haven’t managed to stand in front of the mirror and say those words 20 times at all as i don’t believe it, but I will try again. I hate the suicidal thoughts, it’s so painful and traumatic to have them. I have never managed to have the courage to actually attempt it, living with the thoughts is hard. I’m not sure what happens to me from here, I’m not sure I’ll get through it, it seems like i’ve been going through it most of my life. I have a history of depression/anxiety as an adult. I hate feeling so vulnerable, needy and like a scared child really (I never expressed emotion as a child in a traumatic environment, so I guess I just waited until I was adult, it has held me back alot). Sometimes I think i’ve got that emotional instability disorder thing, but I don’t like labels, they make me feel worse. happy b said it was like an addiction, and maybe it would be useful if I can see it like that, more manageable…I’m not sure. Thanks again.
Sofia,
This is not the man for you.
Constant “teasing/joking” is actually quite abusive.
You need no contact, and though you may not get all the answers, you will gain clarity and the greatest gifts of all: Perspective then Neutrality.
It won’t be easy, but the alternative is bleak, at best. Trust me.
Please do not go back to this man.
And it might take time to get over this. Give yourself that time. You deserve it.
Thank you, Peanut:) And I do have no contact with him. He does have good traits about him then, I can respect that. He left me alone.
I agree. I don’t see how I put up with teasing about my preferences and taste. That’s abusive and immature.
There are even moments that I feel relieved. That I don’t have to keep guessing his behavior anymore. I don’t have to keep asking whether he is committed to me. It was such an energy drain. Finally over. Until I get sad again and recycle and cry over him. But I know I will be over him eventually.
catherb,
Don’t worry with the words, it’s just really important for me to say and get the message across that you do have a right to exist.
We blame ourselves for our childhoods and that is so unfair but natural.
Hugs to you. A million hugs to you. I know how you feel; I can relate. I deal with it at times every day. Just because we feel this way doesn’t mean it’s our fault or that we deserve it. We deserve good.
Sofia,
And after you cry and cycle him out of your psyche, you will be better for it!
Peanut, I believe in it! And that’s why I don’t hold it in. I cry it out, recycle but YET I keep in mind ” watch out , don’t get stuck in this. recognize this will be and should be over at a due time.” I believe it’s very important to feel everything thoroughly and fully before one can move on. Everyone has his/her schedule, but it’s important to remember to not make a lifestyle out of it – the memories and the past. Move on while grieving and you will be moved on soon enough!
Mike,
Your comment broke my heart. It’s a different kind of pain to be emotionally available and lose something truly good. It’s scary.
That’s why emotionally unavailable people invest in those they see as not so risky to lose.
Thoughts are with you. You are such a stand up guy; keep your head up 🙂
I married a master charmer. So charmers can actually go as far as keeping their “happily ever after promises”. Except the “happily” bit exited in a hurry after he succeed moving me into his turf..his own country. I wish I knew red flags then, and vocabularies like “fastforwarder” because I was fastforwarded in a few weeks of meeting online we were talking marrying and him gushing I deserve to be “treated like a princes because that is who you are.” Cheesy stuff which after getting married and him subjecting me to all manners of abuse(I don’t want to retraumatise you with it), he woul revert to and go “I worship the ground you walk on.” Words just escape their mouths and I think sometimes they don’t even think they are saying it. This man I still resent because he continues his cruelty long after I summonned my pieces of scattered self esteem to leave him to save my son from a home of abuse. He is a very cruel man. I still remember the first time he came to my country, I had nightmares all night of him strangling me, not being real etc. Apart from controlling and not wanting me to see friends on my own, he would be excessively charming to them. One time he really hit it off with my then close friend and I felt like a third wheelat a ddinner table, until my friend got turned off when he told her “you do look really fuckable!”. When I had my son and him leaving me locked inside the house in pain with no support. The first time I allowed my two girlfriends to come and see me with the baby, he even closed his office early (he never did it for me and my son), then showed up with 3 bunches of flowers, one for me and two others for my friends, quipped with “I only buy flowers for HOT ladies. ” I can go on and on….now I feel a bit uncomfortable when a guy showers me with out of the blue complement which before BR would make me smile until it aches. Like yesterday I went to the bank. This particular bank officer was nice and chatty which I attributed to “great people skills.” As I went to the office the questions got more personal and I got easily comfortable and we were chatting and laughing like old friends, and comparing notes on the great artists and performets out there today and back then. He had already said how hot I was and how he can’t believe how he has relaxed his professional muscles on me etc. By the end I had his business card with his personal number for “catch up” and possibly attend a concert. With a weired squeese of my hand he said bybye punctuated with a sleezy wink on his part. The buoyant I felt lasted the distance i walked to reach my car as red flags kept on waving like no tomorrow. No future contact from me.
Hé guys! I have to share something I just realised today. I dated a guy for a few weeks, but I had this weird feeling about him, like he was selfish and cold and immature (but you know, I continued to be enthousiastic and thought I was cr-a-zy to think that because he is very successful in his career – plays music in bands ubër popular in my part of the world, won prizes and stuff + he’s very intelligent, being accepted at an Ivy league Uni for a PhD and all) and it got me very stressed out in our interactions. At some point, he began to pull away – and I thought I was responsible for all of it. You know, the first dates were marvellous, he was soooo excited, blablabla, made me meet his super good friends, etc. Pffff… But then, I cut my finger pretty badly (could have cut it definitly actually) and he wouldn’t acompany me at the hospital and texted me 2 days after to see if I was fine. WHAT THE HELL!!??? Honestly, what kind of cold hearted b!st@rd does that?
So, I did not text him for 3 weeks. But then I thought I was the one being immature, cutting him loose without a word. So I wrote to him that I was sorry that I did not quit with an explanation, but that I thought his not calling (at least) was disrespectful. He wrote back that I was needy and judgemental (not true. And well, if wanting some basic decent human alongside me is being needy, then, yes, I AM needy), but that he was disapointed because he was going to fall madly in love with me (WTF). And did not say sorry.
Quick story short : I said I was sorry I seemed judgmental, that I liked him and i might have acted a bit stressed out, but that unfortunatly I couldn’t make him want to get to know me (he asked 3 weeks in what I was actually doing with my life) and step in. So it was not “just” because he texted that I stepped back.
Welllllllll…. He answered that actually he did not like me, that he did not like the way I was dancing in our “2 to tango”, that he did not like that I was enthousiastic and that I had fits of giggles (!!!!!!! sorry for being happy!!!! – and well, those caracteristics are kind of what my inner self is)… And so on with talks about himself and how he laughed and cried when he read my email. But again no sorry on his part.
So tonight, I realised it was NOT all about me. I was not part of the equation. He IS a selfish cold hearted immature dude, who was actually jealous of my happiness. There is no way it could have worked. I could have been whoever, a boring never laughing girl, interested in him, open, genuine in my vulnerabilty and he would still have find a way to only think about himself anyway.
So, next time, I have to believe in myself and trust my instincts. They are good guides. And thanks Nat, I think my instincts are good indicators because of you and your wisdom. 🙂
Oh wow! I’m glad he showed his colours really quickly! Jerky man. That’s a bit weird, not to like someone’s giggles when that’s them being happy or being themselves in your presence. Oh dear oh dear.
Rosie B, that guy already has Ph.D. in selfishness and jerkiness!!!! Wow!!! You are lucky you escaped him fast. The fact that called you needy and judgmental after an incident which didn’t call for such words, which any human being would support you and ask how you are SOONER than two days after. He sounds like an arrogant, cocky SOB, I am sorry to say that, but that’s my impression. Good he showed his true himself IMMEDIATELY. Run and forget about him. Phew…. Good riddance!!!!! I feel relieved for you it’s over! What an ass!!!! You are true and genuine to yourself. Of course there is nothing in this story about you! Wow,that guy will be a single for the rest of his life, watch my words. He sounds so judgmental, full of himself, so serious, so controlling. I got scared and terrified of being his gf just reading your story. You are lucky this is over quick!!!!
Sofia,
I just wanted to tell you how much I admire the honesty, insight and self reflection you exhibit through your posts. I imagine you getting through the difficulties and pain and reaching a more self accepting place.
I feel I may have been through a somewhat similar experience over the past year to 18 months or had similar questions owing to the fact I was not dealing with an AC. He was EU though and because I could not remain in contact with him without having to become EU to myself, we ended and I was left with an enormous amount of pain, confusion and regret. I cannot explain or make linear sense of the process I have been through since and the changes I am undergoing but I do know that there is a positive shift inside and it would never have happened/be happening without my being forced through emotional pain to face myself. I do know that I no longer over invest (ie invest where my trust and vulnerability has neither been earned or reciprocated) in other people. I am too realising that I must not prematurely out of fear or obsession over-invest in the ‘potential’ and outcomes of my work or goals in such a way that I am replacing unhealthy relationship patterns directly with work/goals.
lizzp, thank you for your kind words. I know you can relate to the experience of pain, which nevertheless transforms you into a better and much more positive self. I need to reread your earlier posts because I don’t think I am aware of what happened to you. I see your relationship didn’t last long 1 year to 1,5, kind of like mine. And your ex was not an AC. And I know you understand me WHY it makes it much more difficult. When they are ACs and play games with you and all the different terminology that Natalie provides us with, we can at least make sense of it. With other people, like your ex and mine, who are not ACs, and were decent people on different levels, it’s hard and we might blame ourselves much more for what we think we did/say wrong and keep holding ourselves overaccountable for what went wrong in the relationship because we can’t blame them much. However, both parties are responsible and with EUs, which mine truly was, there is just nothing you can do. He was kind, gentleman, predictable, consistent, no fast forwarding, no future faking. I thought many times and blamed myself hard during the last months of the relationship and after breakup that I pushed him to commit. That I was too fast for him. I didn’t push to move in or get married, but I wanted to know if he would stay around (contract job from another country – contract with unknown term length..hmmm), I wanted to know if he felt like we could have a future and get seriously involved (meaning I could let my fears down and let him in my life fully because he was committed). He always doubted whether he would stay here, whether I am the right one for him (He would say, ” I don’t know yet, not enough time went by (6 months or 10 months doesn’t matter), if he wants to settle down, if I am a good match for him and on and on “maybe” doubts. My fears grew with every month that he will just back off and I made a huge mistake of making him pull away even more by questioning his ability to commit to me and at all, by doubting his interest in me (external evidence was present, not just my internal fears). So I blamed myself so much for “pushing him away,” that I chose to ignore the facts that he kept me away from his life. From his family and friends in his native country. He would not let them know about me. He wouldn’t show me pictures, wouldn’t tell stories about them unless I asked questions, which he reluctantly answered. He also refused to take me to his country over the holidays to visit his family or friends into 10 months relationship mark. I said, ok, if no family, at least I would like to see your place and meet your friends. He never wanted to meet my friends and my family. He was lukewarm to my child. He set his own terms and limits on how frequently and how long we see each other. There were many signs he was not and would not be invested into me. I don’t know why I blamed myself so hard that ” I screwed it all up by asking him so many questions about our status.” It doesn’t matter. The thing is I would have not asked any of those questions if we HAD a solid relationship. We didn’t. I know I never had to ask such questions with two good relationships I had before. You just know it that the person is with you. you don’t worry. you are calm. You feel loved. You know you are loved and cared for. His actions show. His treatment shows. No reason to ask, “are we together or not?”
Back to our changes, yours and mine, yes, I can relate too. I feel I will no longer invest myself , whether friendship or romantic involvement, with anyone who is not trustworthy. Who doesn’t show respect, gives me time and consideration. When I treat people with respect I expect the same. Another great change, perhaps you noticed in yourself too, because I am guessing you are undergoing the same changes like me, is that I am not so sensitive anymore to others’ remarks and judgment. It just doesn’t matter. I know my life, I know who I am. I am responsible for my decisions. I am not going to get worked up for not pleasing someone or making someone calling me names, or whatever else. I just don’t care. I treat others well and if someone disagrees with me, I won’t be upset about it. I am not afraid to say “no ” nowadays for the first time in my 36 years of life. I am much more calm about the idea, “perhaps I will be single for the rest of my life,” and I am ok also to start a relationship, if someone trustworthy and available comes along. I have become wiser I hope in the last just 2 months BECAUSE of the emotional upheaval and pain that were so strong like never in my life. I don’t remember anything so painful in my life before. I had not experienced such pain before. Even my divorce was nothing at all in comparison to this loss. Well, “loss” – it was and IS such a gain in many ways. Sometimes I think I am grateful he came along into my life and all the things that happened. Because if they had not happened I would have not been where I am and who I am now. I know for sure I will never be the same. Like you too, I will never bet on the potential and obsess with a relationship. Truly, as much pain and disappointment and self-blame and guilt I have incurred since the breakup of this relationship, I am so much better for it. I am having good 2-3 days in my week 9 of NC and postbreakup. I know I might recycle and cry again tomorrow, but that’s ok. I have been through this cycle before, about 3 weeks ago. I was seemingly good one month NC and then all over. Now I am better, but I comfort myself that if I go sad and depressed again tomorrow and miss him, that’s ok. With every time the recycling becomes less and less intense. He is not an AC exactly because he will never contact me and play games with me for any selfish reason like the ladies here describe their exes do to them. So I am very lucky in that sense, and I hope you are too. Decent, or fairly decent people break up maturely. Over is over. No coming back. Potential friendship attempts (mine offered friendship immediately and I said I am not ready and he said he understood and said perhaps some time later), maybe but after a long time, after all the emotions are over. That could be easily one year after for a 1-1,5 year long relationship. Even then, do we need to be friends if we were not treated fairly and equally in a relationship? No. I don’t see a need for such a relationship. Do you feel anger at your ex? What are you feeling now?
Wow…just had this happen to me. Was casually dating someone for 6 months who treated me with respect and listened to my needs and concerns. The last time we went out, it was like he morphed into a different person. He disrespected me in public and ignored my feelings. I told him I didnt appreciate it and received a half Ase apology. He’s asked to see me a few times since and I avoided it but finally told him last nighti had lost interest. He sent me a text ignoring what I said whining that we had plans this week when he never formally asked. I guess he thinks I’m on call. I never texted back.
I am wise enough to know that us the real him and that guy from the first 6 months won’t be appearing again. The way he treated me turned my stomach and I would never put up with it. Especially from someone casua. Good to know I am dating with my self esteem in check.
Wow, nyer1, you are ahead of the game than most of us here! I am only learning theoretically at the age of 36 about the things that came naturally to you. You did the right thing! That is what I would have done now myself.
Exactly, 6 months seems to be the honey moon phase. Then, “feelings gone, sorry, you are not the person for me and I am not committed after all.” The next 5-6 months it was ME and my mistake and doormat behavior for accepting the crumbs. He didn’t have the guts to break up, I provoked by forcing to say yes or no to the commitment, and he said NO. What I should have done, which I did partially around 4-5 months mark when things kind of were strange sometimes, is to break up myself. But I didn’t have any self-esteem back then. I couldn’t walk way from the bad or “good” as I saw it. How did I know what was good or bad for me? Wisdom finally. Thanks for sharing, nyer1. Even if they are nice in the beginning it doesn’t mean they are good for us.