If as a child, we were favoured by one particular parent and treated better than say a sibling or the other parent, we are used to a dynamic where we are preferred at someone else’s expense. If this is how we derive our worth and we also see it as normal or even flattering, this becomes an almost automatic precursor to us being the future Other Woman/Man.
It’s not always overt favouritism either. A concurrent theme was feeling sympathetic to one parent and almost apathetic to the other parent who is/was likely perceived as too passive or difficult, or even a ‘nag’. Whether it’s contempt that’s felt at the extreme end or pity at the other, this perception of things is likely based in part if not all, on looking at things through a child’s lens where assumptions and reasoning that ‘makes sense’ (even though it doesn’t), is used to rationalise why certain things have happened. These become beliefs that are used to inform our subsequent thinking and behaviour. We do things that agree with our outlook.
Those same beliefs are then used to adjust our own behaviour to ‘fit in’ and avoid what we perceive as negative outcomes.
We’ll ensure that we’re not ‘like them’ and this can translate into not voicing needs, opinions, feelings etc., and not wanting to be perceived as a source of ‘drama’. Cue people-pleasing and even Florence Nightingaling. Many of the stories I read referred to not just affairs but also being with people they attempted to fix/heal/help. It’s feeling for a time that they were favoured over that person’s problems and by deriving worth from being needed, feeling special. On some level, we can even derive some of our worth from feeling superior, whether it’s to the person with the problem or feeling superior to the person who is being cheated on.
When we learn to derive worth from being the favourite or certainly from not being like people who that parent did not like, love, or respect, we learn to appreciate and desire being loved or appreciated by someone who somebody else has to work even harder for the same thing or isn’t able to get it. We’ll even choose a someone who shares similar traits with that parent and may not even be aware that we’re doing so.
We may get used to being a sounding board or rolling our eyes in sympathy when they’re being strained by having to deal with these ‘pesky’ others. We try hard to please because we want to influence their feelings and behaviour so that we don’t get what those others do, and also because we want this person to give us the ultimate validation and leave. We feel as if we ‘get’ them even if we’re not actually engaging on a truly intimate level and are unable to relax and be our true selves. We tune out of problematic aspects of this person because we’re blinded and are likely coming up with reasons for these bad points, blaming their partner and the fact that they ‘have’ to lie and have an affair ‘against their will’ until the ‘right time’. We convince ourselves that they’re an honest cheat (no such thing incidentally – that’s an oxymoron) and amp up our specialness by convincing ourselves that it’s only their partner that gets the lies.
An affair can be such a lure because we get to experience that specialness from our childhood all over again. We feel favoured. We feel preferred.
Being the Other Woman /Man activates our competitive side and we feel fantastic initially because we have been marked as ‘better’. This sense of being the ‘real number one’ lasts for as long as it takes for us to realise that they’re not going to leave and/or discover that they are talking out of their bottoms and not anywhere near as great or available as we imagined. We hinge everything on the ultimate validation of being chosen and when they don’t leave, we feel deeply rejected. We decide that we’re not worthy of their love and have failed in some way instead of seeing the dysfunction of the situation for what it is.
And of course, not being the favourite but wanting to be, makes us like a moth to flame for an affair. It represents an opportunity to right the wrongs of the past.
If we’re still nursing old wounds from being second or something-best, we will initially feel high on being number one and then it’s just a matter of time until all of the second best issues are reactivated and we end up feeling like a desperate emotional wreck trying to convince this person to leave while also feeling that ‘yet again’, we have done something that shows that we’re not worth it. We’re using the same reasoning from our childhood – only ‘worthy’ people are loved or made ‘the best’. We think that love from this particular brand of person is the best kind of love and banked on being chosen so that the void from our childhood could finally be filled up. In them not leaving or certainly only viewing us in an affair capacity, it becomes confirmation that our negative beliefs are true. It reaffirms this idea that what we experienced as a child was the fault of our inadequacies and/or it confirms this idea that the only place we have in someone’s life is somewhere down their list.
Whether we were the favourite or felt second best, we can feel locked into a cycle of going back and forth with this person because walking away reopens the old wounds and so we try to get away from these feelings or push them back down, by trying the affair again. We feel temporarily better until the old feelings (and reality) seep in and it’s lather, rinse, repeat.
These realisations caused me to reflect on my own childhood. I was regarded as my father’s ‘favourite’ (I think I remind him of a different time in his life and this is all based on the first 2.5 years – I’m knocking on 37 now…), but I did not feel important to my mother. I didn’t want to be more important than my siblings, I just wanted to be on equal footing. This idolising of my father seemingly put a strain on my relationship with my mother from the outset and of course when they broke up and I felt lost and abandoned, feeling adrift with my mother was accentuated. It took me up until a few years ago to realise that I had also played up to this whole favourite thing around my stepmother in my early years but that there was also some tension with my mother about me getting on ‘intellectually’ with my stepfather in my teens.
The eventual affair I was involved in nearly broke me and served as an exorcism that brought all of the ugly thoughts and old wounds up to the surface. Ironically, choosing me and growing up my perspective somewhat – a lot of my view of me and relationships was from my early years – closed up that void. I stopped being that child looking for attention from its parents.
Of course the answer to having our self-esteem based on being the favourite or second best, isn’t to run interference in someone else’s relationship. Can we really say that it’s good, honest, clean love, if our motivation for loving and wanting to be loved is about not only living in the past but also specifically wanting this love because it overthrows somebody?
It’s when we acknowledge that we are in fact putting the past on repeat and trying to get romantic partners to fill voids from our childhood, that we start to regain our power. In these dynamics of favouritism, affairs put the other party in a powerful ‘parent’ role where we play ‘child’ and assign this person too much power and authority. We end up perpetuating those wrongs from our past by selling us short when what we really need to do is begin the work of healing that part of us that’s still using that same reasoning we used in childhood to run our lives and inform our perspective. The great thing is that when we increase self-awareness and also get a fresh, adult perspective on our past, we begin to release so much of that pain we’ve held onto and free ourselves up to truly love and be loved.
Your thoughts?
If you want to uncover and transform unhealthy beliefs as well as work through feelings of anger, sadness, and loss, check out the downloads section where you can sign up for the Unsent Letter Guide and Get Out Of Stuck email series. I also explore the subject of affairs in my book Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl.
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Wow. I can’t believe the timeliness of this post. I’ve been reading the book “women who love too much” and it touches on some of the same themes. While I wasn’t involved in an affair per se, he was “separated” and started to get cold feet about actually leaving. Anyway, I just told my story in the last post a lot of these ladies have already seen it. Anyway, I could feel old wounds of the past coming up even though I didn’t realize that’s what it was at the time. I felt extremely competitive and when I thought he was going to leave and choose a relationship with me I felt on top of the world. Even though his problems have nothing to do with me and really he’s not a catch at all in fact he is quite a dog.
Anyway, long story short my biological father and my mother divorced when I was around seven years old. My father decided that he would rather not see me until I was 18 instead of pay child support to my mother so he gave up his parental rights to me. He chose his mistress over me and my mom. He married her and had a daughter with her. That daughter is now in her 20s and he and the mistress have divorced. I see now the connection between that scenario and me as a child and what I’ve been through as an adult. It’s not about making excuses, but rather finding an explanation for why we do very unhealthy things to ourselves.
Thank you BR and Natalie for your excellent insight. This is truly a place of reflection and healing.
Thank you for the timely post, Natalie! I definitely felt favored as the first born child so reading this article brought an epiphany. I was in a relationship that ended. He married someone else and a year later (while still married) He came back into my life saying how much he missed me, regretted every ending it, wanted me to commit to taking him back THEN he would leave his wife. I wouldn’t commit to that. We said we were just friends, but it became more than that. I “allowed” it because as you indicated, I felt vindicated (when he left me he went to his now wife)Of course, this relationship is against everything I believe, I feel horrible. I’ve ended it multiple times, he acquiesces, but reaches out again and I acquiesce. I’m hoping this time is it. And by reading this post, it has opened up why I may be stuck. Thanks for sharing! I plan to dig deeper.
That was very powerful for me Natalie. I’m currently trying to wriggle out of one long-standing, very controlling, affair only to be considering another. My brother was favourite and as an un-expected latecomer, I was not even in the running. I worshipped my remote father and had a mutual antipathy with my mother. Even when I married, my then fiance admitted he would never get over a relationship he’d had before me, I was second best even to him. My problem is that all of this insight is of no help, I know I’m doing these things but can’t seem to stop. Whatever I’m projecting means I never get approached by anyone who is really available.
I really love the site, Natalie, your insights often help me to frame stuff that I know, but can’t seem to form.
This is the script I follow to a tee …. Still haven’t learnt , still trying to be ” the favourite ”
Pathetic. But thank you for this post. Love everything that you write about Nats. X
“It’s when we acknowledge that we are in fact putting the past on repeat and trying to get romantic partners to fill voids from our childhood, that we start to regain our power.” – So true, Natalie. This entire post offers such great insight into what’s really going on subconsciously behind our actions, but this statement, in particular, sums up the answer.
Ouch. This post made me want to hurl because it reminded me of the hell I had to go through to process my affair last year with my ex who ended up marrying the poor sap I suspected she had on the side when I dumped her back in 2003.
Through her expert future faking, flattery bombing and passive aggression, I fell for her line of bullshit last fall like a naive teen. Once she had me, she started in with the guilt she felt cheating on her wife and basically told me thanks for the ego strokes and cyber romps but now that I have seduced you, my little wifey deserves some special attention for not catching me cheating. After that, I was determined to figure out whyI was a magnet for cheaters, liars and passive aggressive witches. Turns out I kept recreating my parent’s horrible marriage…mom the suffering martyr and dad the sex addicted philanderer. I played mom’s part.
But no more and never again.
P.S. The ex had the gall to contact me a few weeks after her guilt attack and asked if we could just be friends with benefits. I was so outraged I called their house and told her wife to keep her cheating whore of a wife away from me. I haven’t had any further contact for months.
Usually I’d never recommend telling the spouse, but the friends with benefits line made me so angry I felt a scorched Earth policy was called for.
I pity her poor wife. Her self esteem must be zilch to stay with that sniveling cheater.
We all deserve more. Cheaters cheat and they rarely evolve past it. Ixnay.
This rings so true. I was the baby of the family and although my parents loved me, by the time I came along they were doing social things and I was left alone a lot. Throughout my adult life I have always been the one to chase the bad guy but then would also be the one to leave the relationship. I needed them to want me SO bad, that I didn’t take the time to ask myself if I really liked them. My most recent relationship is a repeat of my typical pattern. I believe I am struggling with this one, again, because I want him to WANT me, and because he has multiple women, yep…I want to be the winner.
I am working on being happy with me, and to seek out a man that truly is a good person..someone that I WILL stay with. I’m so tired of the games and the hurt. I will take my time and try not to let the little girl that wants attention rear its ugly head.
I think having parents with dubious marriages, being literally “the ugly stepchild” along with my current climate of loneliness and intellectual/emotional isolation, makes me somehow attractive to cheaters (the at work AC), marrieds, folk that are not really in a place for a real relationship. So different from when I met my husband who came into our rship ready, willing, and able to commit. Trying hard to meet out of town athletes, tourists, etc before the summer ends and the door slams shut for a very long 9 months. Thanks to BR and a good deal of Spidey senses, I not only reject such unavailables, I am actually insulted that marrieds etc would even try to get into Noquays knickers. Most of the time, when I find out they’re taken, I walk away, fast. Once, I had lost it and said “You are married; I am a LADY, I do not have slut tattooed on my forehead, WTF!!!”, a statement that was probably a waste of scarce oxygen but felt damned good at the time. Sometimes, feeling snarky, I tell em “the point of married/attached men in my life is to introduce me to your good looking and unattached male friends”. Sadly, cheaters get a lot of encouragement here because a good many single women do take up with them as there are few/no other options other than being alone or leaving. Sad.
Looking for some insights from this marvelous group… [sorry for long post, first time posting]
I discovered BR a month [I wish I had discovered it 8 years ago when it came out], it feels like someone [Nat!] turned the light on. All your comments, gals and guys, also throw even more light on the issues discussed. I have read tons of articles in the archive and this entry today in particular is amazing. I can pin-point in the calendar when my mother went from favoring me to favoring my younger sister. Needless to say my alcoholic father stopped drinking and became a great guy for my stepmother, sort of.
Right now I’m exactly pondering if this married guy is doing the legit thing and my gut feeling is an echo of wanting to be chosen. OR, he’s a master at weaseling out and my gut feeling is right [it’s right 50% of the time, so I can’t trust it].
Long story not so short: Person I had to work on some projects via phone/email and occasional meetings, tells me he had feelings for me but alas he’s married [I knew that]. According to him his marriage and life wasn’t perfect but it wasn’t broken either. “These feelings” for me took him by surprise and that he never cheated in 20+ years of marriage. [Does anybody have a bullshit detector, bc mine stopped working]
After some back and forth on what to do, I propose to spend time together as friends to see if the feelings are based in reality or it was just sheer fantasy and projections. If real, well, he had to figure out what to do with his life. I also suggested to seek counseling and talk to his wife, not about me but about him needing space to figure out things. He said this last one was impossible, she would suffer, get suspicious, blah blah, I don’t need to be specific, you all know the script. How this “choice” for well being makes me fill? Insert today’s blog entry here.
He hires a therapist [good, right? Not so, keep reading] We start talking everyday, even when I had to go abroad for work, and tons of emails all day [fast-forwarding?]. But alas, Monday to Friday 9 to 5 only. It felt clandestine and so convenient for him and not at all for me. He said weekends were for his wife [Insert Nat’s post here again to know how that phrase made me feel]. And it slipped that he was very sexually active with his wife too. More stomachache for me and I asked to call this off immediately.
We continued exchanging work emails but he laced them with niceties. When I got back from abroad I pointed out that no contact meant no niceties and flirtatious comments either. We had a last conversation where it was stated:
– He thought I knew he was sexually active with his wife. He can explain sleeping with her and having strong feelings for me bc he was confused, not thinking and let his emotions lead him. He was sorry. [Crocodile tears or real?]
– He agrees with not having any contact except matter of fact emails that are work related. He’s going to continue working with his therapist, who says to keep the status quo [never heard a therapist saying that EVER, well, yes a bad one, therapist don’t make decision and rarely call for inertia]
– He wants to be with me when he’s fully available [to which I answered You don’t know who I am really?!?!?]
So… it sounds legit, right? Yet why not take into account my needs. I needed to just spend mini time together to see who he is and whether I actually really like him in real life. I know the danger but his plan is equally far-fetched, if sincere. If the feelings were so strong, so so so amazing, why not move out of the bedroom? He said he doesn’t do impulsive things.
Maybe it’s me, I’m just pushing to be “chosen” right now and he has a wiser plan. Or he got scared and is backing off gracefully looking like an amazing guy doing the right thing.
Any thoughts?
This guy is a loser and mind fuck. Trust me AlwaysLearning, this ain’t his first time at the rodeo. He’s a “cake eater” just like the rest of the cheaters…he is loving the attention he gets from all sides.
Do yourself a HUGE favor and RUN (not walk) as far away from this person as possible. Let go of the fantasy you’ve created in your head. This isn’t real. These “feelings” aren’t genuine…from either of you. You need to take the time to delve into your own FOO (family of origin) issues and not waste your time or life on a MARRIED MAN who is not only still sleeping with his wife, but has TOLD YOU he isn’t going to leave her.
He wants his cake and wants to eat it too. RUN dear girl, RUN. You deserve more.
hugs!
Alwayslearning,
My advice to you is to read Natalie’s many articles on *being the other woman*. I think after reading a few of those you may come up with some fundamental questions that are very different to the ones you pose above.
In a nutshell though, a married man is not only emotionally unavailable but in legal contract with someone else. I would in fact pay heed to what he says – that he wants to be with you when he is fully available. That is a kinda soft and cushioned way of referring to the obvious – that he is not available at all at present (no, not somewhat available but *unavailable*. Fully available means when he has signed his divorce papers and after whatever period of time in addition to that it takes him to get over his marriage.
AlwaysLearning,
He wants to have his cake and eat it too. He may in fact have feelings for you but he will never make a decision if you give him the milk without the cow to use an old saying. True love doesnt feel like that.
Always,
I’m certain that his wife believes that they are in a happy marriage.
You are fooling yourself, as all this guy wants is something on the side.
Time to seek out someone who is not involved with another.
Alwayslearning, the one thing that strikes me is …you dont say whether you like him or not (maybe in the end when you say the chemistry was amazing but are you referring to US or HIM?). otherwise it seems like some married guy makes a move on you and you say ‘sure, lets see where this goes’. So thats your part in all this is that at that time I’m assuming you had no real chemistry (how could you through a work relationship? Real chemistry does not depend on clandestine relationships and emails about work). Instead you took up with a married male co-worker and are still wondering if this is legit, if HE is legit. No, he is not legit, because it doesnt appear that YOU are legit in this equation. As you sit around wondering about him, will he leave his wife, stop sleeping with her etc. (and what, you’re going to police this? and this is dignified for you how?), does he really love me, etc etc and on and on… BUT you are not asking yourself WHY do i love a married man that made a move on me then said he’s confused (holy baloney on toast), but lets be friends etc etc. Run, run far away. You’re letting him run this relationship, and not asking yourself why crumbs and lies and ACs are good enough for you.
Ok I reread – now I realize that you dont have a relationship, this is all friends-with-drama (FWD!!). Trust me you dont need married male friends with drama. Cut-it-out. Treat yourself to a manicure, a lovely coffee, and a netflix account till you know how to tell ACs off..
Suki,
FWD, hahaha. Yes, that’s what it is, a sopa opera, all acting no real stuff and in this case, thank goodness it was all fluff.
The working relationship eventually developed in to personal conversations. More than chemistry it was an “intellectual compatibility”, a sense of, Wow this person gets me, gets my humor, sees the world in a similar way… and it grew from there.
But in the end just drama and no, I didn’t settle for the crumbs but feels like a loss anyway to see somebody so interesting be so “confused” on other areas.
“holy baloney on toast” completely made my morning! (Alwayslearning, I was stuck in the same song, the same verse, the same old tired AC of a singer)
AlwaysLearnng
There is only ONE thing you say to married men:
Call me when the ink is well and truly dry on your divorce papers.
No if, buts and’s or maybe’s.
That’s it, end of, move on.
Hey AlwaysLearning
It doesn’t matter if this guys feeling are real or not. He is unavailable and confused. He is not suitable for you even in the near future, he has so much work to do that by the time you see him again 5 years at least may have gone by. Is he really that special? You have made the right decision by doing no contact, but you are still CONSIDERING his interests. I bet in your mind you run over the many ways that your relationship could potentially work. So the prospect of his attention is actually happening for you. I get the impression that in a weak moment you’ll go along with his unhealthy relationship. In fact, I did not pick up on anything from you that suggests that he is your perfect guy. It sounds indifferent and factual, how do you actually feel about him? Is this obsession with how ‘real’ his feelings are related to how you feel about yourself? Do you feel that you are so unable and so unwanted that you that another person wont develop ‘genuine’ feelings for you?
As usual your post is timely. I think your comments can be directed to any woman stuck in a toxic relationship. My father always made it clear that my older sister was his favourite.
As a result I was always playing the pick me dance and ended up staying with a cheating husband because I was determined that I should be the one he chose to give me validation that I was really preferable to all the women he was chasing.
I recognize the problem. Now I have to accept that I need to recognize my own value and if he doesn’t – screw him. It’s his loss.
Easier said than done, but thank you Natalie for making me see this
Interesting post, I have been the OW 2 times now in my life, but was an only child and feel that the fact I was selfish because of this has always spurred on my decision to go after who I want without regard for the consequences. Now, the first OW scenario was an emotional affair, and I found BR when ending it with him. BR really helped me so much to see the light about what a selfish, manipulator, future faker this guy was and I dumped him.
Last year I opted into a similar situation, but this started out purely physical with a man who does not live with his wife, and only sees her a few times per month. There were no promises made, no manipulation on his part, no future faking etc. We spent weekends together, he took me out, treated me well and the sex was off the charts amazing. But, I knew it would not last forever, that he was an AC, and would get empty after a while for me and I just opted out as things were getting complicated…jealousy on his part, and anger on mine knowing I deserved better. I had to break up with him 4 times, but I think he gets it now and he has left me alone. I still run into him, sometimes the wife too, and that has been difficult, but I made my bed and now have to lie in it. Good for me for opting out, bad on me for getting involved in the first place. I know better and am angry with myself for that. I am well-aware that I go through EU phases in my life and when I met him was one of those times. I had also been dating nice guys, but had no physical attraction to them, so when this guy came along and there were immediate sparks that I hadn’t felt in years, I went for it. See, selfish and impulsive on my part! It doesn’t excuse my poor behavior though and I take full responsibility for my actions. His wife has put up with his infidelity for years and is just happy to have the bills paid, doesn’t expect much from him, so it works for them I guess. They have also had an open relationship in the past. I feel bad for her that she is too weak to leave him and didn’t mean to hurt her with any of this, although she doesn’t know. I never tried to take him away from her. I know I deserve better than a man like that, but yet I slept with him which is what I find so disturbing about my behavior. It’s like my libido took over and I had no control.
I also have had relatively successful, stable relationships with men who truly loved me and was comfortable in these situations, one that lasted 10 years, but sometimes I fall off the wagon, so to speak.
What I am having the largest problem with is missing the sex so much. It was like an addiction, and now I am going through withdrawal. Seeing him makes it more difficult as there is still an overwhelming physical attraction that I can’t shake. But, maintaining a healthy self-esteem is more important to me than my physical needs at this point, so I have to move on. How do you get past that physical desire?
BTW, this is a great site. It’s so nice not to feel judged for the mistakes I have made. Not everyone is cookie cutter wanting the white picket fence and 2.5 children and Golden Retriever. I don’t want children and would only marry if someone truly fabulous came along, which has not happened in a long time. I also think monogamy is not for everyone, not meaning I believe in open relationships, quite the contrary! But, I feel that for myself, I find myself bored after several years and that people tend to grow apart. But, that does not mean you start cheating on your partner, it means you leave and find someone new or enjoy getting to know yourself better.
Still Learning,
I hear you about the sex. I sometimes feel like some of the loss I feel is also due to mourning the end of my sex life. I agree that maintaining self esteem is more of a priority than the physical connection, but it can be a real struggle at times. It is great to share in a place where there are no judgments. I wonder how I can get past my own actions and really forgive myself. I sometimes feel overwhelmed by how much time I wasted knocking on a closed door. Thanks for sharing…it helped me to read your experience.
Hey Tangerine, I am glad my post helped you. Typing it out was therapeutic for me and I am feeling much better today. I wasn’t in love with the guy, but boy do I miss that sexual connection…it truly had become an addiction and I am suffering from withdrawal now. And having to see him every so often reminds me I am still very attracted to him. Yes, I screwed up, but that does not make me a terrible person. Same with you, don’t beat yourself up over it too much. Life wasn’t meant to be lived perfectly.
Chemistry is fickle. This is a man 20 years my senior, short and not my type at all, and yet, I was drawn to him physically like a bee to honey the moment we met. He felt the same. But, things like that can’t go on forever….there was always an expiration date for me. And no way would I want to sleep with him while running into him and his wife a few days later. YUCK! Nobody treats me that way!
Stay strong! Keep up with the NC and you will be fine. And your sex life is not over…just your sex life with him. You will meet someone else you’re attracted to in time. No man on this earth is the end all, be all in my book. If I ever meet one who is, I will marry him. ?
Still Learning this is so interesting …
For me,I think it is a case of re defining sex for oneself, and seeing it as one component of a relationship, not the spark that you then try to build something on.
“Amazing sex”, with someone who can’t sustain things, be a little bit real, once the deed is done, is anything but sexy.In addition, it takes such a lot of work, getting yerself back to the new more healthy self, which wants more, wants connection, honesty, and a grown up person to love.
Sex now has to come from a different place, where it develops from love and a intimate connection, coupled with shared values,similar interests and a ofcourse decent heart. Hence I am single at the moment…
I have indulged with some very sexy men, one who was famous and gets anyone he throws some focus on, but all the therapy and reading br and work on myself has paid off, because I know he can’t love anyone, is a little bit stupid, and ultimately it’s all one big act. A true Narc.
I set about finding out what I thought he could offer me, and finding it in myself.
Thank you Lizzp and FedUP.
After posting, I read Nat’s post five times, once aloud so it really sinks in and read my own post three times more, and then reading your posts a few times and… I’m in shock at my own questions and thoughts.
Who am I kidding? So great I got this space to share and read other stories instead of “trying” my lame theories and questions with the real guy and crash and burn like a paper plane.
I’m sharing my realizations in case they help others.
Bottom line: Who cares what he’s thinking, doing, planning, whether he cheated before or not, whether he means well or not? It’s not about him, it’s about me.
So conclusion:
1. He’s not available. Period. That’s all I should care about.
2. He’s not asking me to wait for him, not giving me a timeline, nor a chance to know him, which means he doesn’t care about me at all. Nor should care about him and his plans either because they don’t include me and they shouldn’t. I don’t want to be included!
3. Yes, I have to take stock I was pushing for some emotional affair to at least win a little bit. I’m lucky that our respective positions in our work is pushing him to do the legit thing, he can’t afford [nor can I] to mess things up too much.
I signed up to a couple of dating sites to see the world is bigger than this guy that seemed so compatible and amazing on paper. I just say we are very intellectually compatible but if I want intellectual stimulation I should join a book club.
Wow, this was sort of fast considering I used to be entangled with EUMs for months and months at a time. Though only first time I slipped emotionally with a married man, amazing considering my mother has been a mistress most of her life. In my defense the guy is super astute, I knew he could weave a good tale around me and that’s why I stayed very alert.
Thank you again and in spite of my realization I welcome further comments.
Always Learning,
Loved your #1-3 points. I am 2.5 weeks into NC, and I always assume his life is great and it is all smooth sailing while I struggle. I realize it doesn’t matter what the heck he is doing. Thanks for your insight. I will repeat your post out loud 3 times 🙂
Tangerine,
The grass greener factor. We always thing the other people have it easier or more fun or more anything. When I catch myself with those thoughts I say to myself, Well, they have to wake up and deal with themselves all day long.
Having been the confident on many situations on both sides, I must say, in the end EUMs have similar issues of inadequacies, self-worth and such as we do. They spend an incredible amount of time and energy overcompensating. They just choose a different way to deal with it.
Therefore while I believe that in the early stages of NC is important to indulge in demonizing the “bastards”, eventually it’s healthier to have some compassion. At the end of the day they are the other side of our coin. And I’m so ready to change currencies altogether!
RE-WRITE! Sorry major typo that leads to misinterpretation in previous post.
Tangerine,
The grass greener factor. We always think the other people have it easier or more fun or more anything. When I catch myself with those thoughts I say to myself, Well, they have to wake up and deal with themselves all day long.
Having been the sympathetic “listener” on many situations between EUM and their partners on both sides, I must say, in the end EUMs have similar issues of inadequacies, self-worth and such as we do. They spend an incredible amount of time and energy overcompensating. They just choose a different way to deal with it.
Therefore while I believe that in the early stages of NC is important to indulge in demonizing the “bastards”, eventually it’s healthier to have some compassion. At the end of the day they are the other side of our coin. And I’m so ready to change currencies altogether!
Always Learning, don’t do it. Step far away from the Married Man. Refer to my post above if you want some insight into how these things usually end up. All they really want is sex. And being emotionally involved is worse that being sexually involved. So first he would get you emotionally entangled, which would lead to physical. Double whammy!
Was quite shocked at how relevant this post was when I read it today, I got myself involved with a MM at work around this time last year and am still recovering from it. All these months down the line, going from hating, avoiding, counselling, anything I could think of to forget it after he treated me like garbage afterwards, I now find myself sitting literally 2 feet away from him at work and developing feelings for him again.
He is probably just trying to be the nice person, starting conversations, asking how I am, joining me for breaks etc. but now I find those wounds have opened again and I am struggling badly to cope with it. I cannot get him out of my mind, can’t sleep, can barely eat, feel like crying all the time. I have now come to the conclusion that it may be best to tell him how I feel once and for all, that I have very strong feelings for him and I want to be with him, face the rejection once and for all if that happens and allow myself to grieve. I know his marriage isn’t happy and (fool that I am) really believe I could make him happier if we had a chance. I really have hit an all time low over this, I know it can’t go on, and I can’t go on feeling the way I do. I really feel I have done everything I can to forget him and I just can’t. Any advice would be very much appreciated.
Messed Up Girl,
No, you haven’t done everything that you can to forget him. You haven’t found a new job. Yes that sucks that YOU would have to change jobs in this situation BUT we are talking about your mental, emotional and physical well being. Put your resume out there, and GET OUT. Do not engage with this man anymore than ABSOLUTELY necessary for your job. Other than that, NO CONTACT. No breaks, no chats. This guy is playing a mind game with you!! Why would you want to be rejected one more time baby girl? You don’t deserve that!! If he was truly unhappy in his marriage he would LEAVE IT. But he’s still there. Why? Because he isn’t THAT unhappy regardless of whatever crap he’s feeding you.
Sweetheart, I don’t mean to sound harsh. I’m just being clear for your own good. You deserve better than this. Who knows where a new job could take you. If being in close proximity to this ASS CLOWN is bothering you to the point where your basic human functions are in jeopardy you need to GET THE HELL OUT. This is not love, this is not normal, this is addiction.
hugs!
FedUp is absolutely right. Get OUT, now. I had something similar, working in the next office from the guy who had dumped me. Worse than that, he was not a co-worker, he was my BOSS! It was excruciating. The more I fought it, (the more I said to myself “I’m not going to let HIM have all this power over my feelings,” and “why should I have to leave my job – HE should be the one to leave” and so on…) the more of a struggle it became and the worse it got. I just wasn’t going to win this one. I was lucky – I was able to transfer out to another department in another building and at least stay in the organization. It wasn’t easy, because I loved the job I had. But I got out. It was absolutely crucial to my well-being. And it was without a doubt the best decision I could have made.
I couldn’t heal with him right next to me – and you won’t be able to either. It sucks to have to go through the hassle of looking for another job, no doubt about it, but both you and I took that risk when we decided to get involved with someone at work. So take a deep breath and accept this consequence. You will be MUCH happier, I guarantee it.
+1 for Fed Up
I had small business, but I had the chance to see my miss EU every day ( her office was near 20 meters from mine ). I put her in NC, changed my routines, the time when I go out of work, when I go to work and etc. Anyway it was too stressful for me to go to work and also to lead the company. I got nice offer outside from my country and discussed it with my partner. We were discussing about changing the focus of the business for some moths, just to work some months outside from my country … His question was: “Are you happy here?” Well I was hones and I couldn’t fool myself anymore. I decided, that my mental health is more important, so I got my space ( I am 3 months out of the country and feel great ) and now I can grieve ALONE and to become available for the next available woman in my life.
Well this is my story, but ask yourself are you happy?
Time, space and NC, this is what i can recommend you. Also if you have a chance, read the Natalie books about NC and Mr. Unavailable.
This is what I can advice you.
Rather radical solution, to move the business to another country, but you absolutely did the right thing! I admire your approach, I know it wasn’t easy.
Thanks Mephista,
Thanks for the supportive words. Actually I see, that I wasn’t detailed enough in my previous post.
I closed the business, my partner moved in another company and now he is even in better position. The initial idea was to cooperate with the current company, that I work for, but I decided, that it’s better to move even for a year and more. So right now work for somebody and my life is simple. I have time and space to work on myself.
Yes it’s radical, but the money and the social status is not everything. After the drama and my drained self esteem I realized, that not only miss EU has issues, but I also have issues, if I accept her behavior and participate in the drama that we had. So I got my break and I am working on solving my issues.
For me this is step forward!
Thanks.
MessedUpGirl, he’s gonna hump you and dump you. Are you able to handle that? Please get realistic, stop fantasizing. Why open yourself up to more pain? These men sense when you are trying to pull away. The crave the ego stroke of knowing they can “pull you any time they want”, so they be Mr. Nice guy to reel you back in.
He is not the “fix” for your pain.
Messed up girl
Was in a similar place but my colleague wasn’t married; he had a long term rship with someone else out of town while chasing after me. First thing; as much NC as you can manage. Breaks alone or with someone else, no being on committees with this person, if you have the power, kick him off any committees you chair. If you host social events, he ain’t invited, no company Xmas party. Your socialization needs to be away from the workplace. Don’t bother telling him of your feelings, it ain’t going to get you anywhere and causes unnecessary drama. My AC asked why I was upset, avoiding him, and I eventually told him, which he then apparently related to his latest conquest, making me look like a desperate, old maid, fool. He knows; he doesn’t care. Your place in his life is to stroke his lil ego without getting anything in return. Plus he will talk, perhaps to the very folks who will be the references for your next job. If you can find another job, do so. I understand that in some places that’s hard to do and yep, we have financial obligations we must meet. If you are older, consider early retirement elsewhere, maybe an alternative career. I am a senior level academic teaching myself woodworking. Last, look at your life; why is a dude, unavailable on many fronts, your only option? I have no clue where/how you live, what support network you have. If possible, get involved in your community, away from work. Take up running, volunteering at something to do with social/environmental issues, go to good music concerts. All these places allow one to make connections with folk that tend to have their act together far more than the trashy bar scene. If your community is small/limited, go to stuff outside your community. Some places are horribly limited as to available folk/belief system/values, that force us into bad choices we ordinarily would never make due to overwhelming loneliness and isolation. If this is your case too, you need a long term bailout strategy; pay off all unsecured debt, have your home assessed as to it’s value, and have a plan to be out in a few years. If jobs in your field are plentiful, make yourself send out a minimum of three CVs each week. Doing anything to empower yourself, not helplessly accepting, helps the hurt. Lastly, learn from this situation; we really cannot create a situation that repels all marrieds/attached types, meal ticket seekers and other broken boys, but we do not have to accept them. Any inconsistency, mixed messages, disconnect between words/actions/feelings, a worrisome gut feeling on your part is cause to stop and reconsider. Guts that are attached, that are unable to function in a relationship, are everywhere and WILL approach you again and again. At the risk of being labelled a snob, elitist, entitled (labels stuck to me all the damn time here), our job is to do the best for ourselves.
Messed Up Girl,
I feel your pain, confusion, disappointment. When I feel the same way I go back to where I felt that way for the first time. Was with my dad, my mom, my sibling? And talk to them in my mind or looking at the mirror.
Another thing I try is to write down what I hope to get with that conversation I think I want to have. There are great posts here about that. Write down the conversation as you see it happening.
I did drama therapy for a while, it’s a lot of fun bc you get to experience the situation but without the AC involved and doing his part.
All in all those feelings are like an alarm clock, they are telling you to wake up, but not to this guy, to wake up to your own self.
hugs to you.
Messed Up Girl, he is not trying to be nice. He is trying to get you to play along with his attempt to make himself feel like less of an a-hole. If he can get you to play along, then he gets to kid himself that what he did wasn’t so bad; that if you are willing to be friendly with him, then “no harm, no foul”.
My suggestion would be to shut. him. down. Tell him, in plain language, that he is NOT to interact with you in any way other than what is required for professionalism. Don’t apologize or ask his permission: state it as a mandate, not a request.
If you can find another job, that would be ideal. If not, perhaps see if there is a low-drama way to have your workspace relocated elsewhere in the office. And if possible, see if you can increase the support you are getting — perhaps see a counselor 2x week; find an online group for women in your situation; and stay close to BR.
Please, do NOT abandon yourself by confessing your feelings to this man. No good will come of it. You don’t need him to give you that final “no” to set yourself free. You can be the one to say, “No more.”
You can do it.
I thank God for this blog. I come here when I need strength. I walked away from AssClown. Again. (this is time number 32 that I have broken up and taken him back)…~Cue studio audience laughter~. No wonder he finds every which way to get back into my life everytime, I have a record of taking him back! The sad thing is that I feel a mix of mostly relief and sadness at the same time, mixed in with a shot of ‘i wanna slam him in the fucking face’. I take this to believe that I can now clearly see him for who he is cuz all the other times I somehow managed to blame myself for something he had done to upset me.
Truth is, you hate to believe that what you saw in this person and all the fun times you had and all the ‘love’ you shared when you told yourself they were your soulmate was actually a lie.
I love this blog and like I said I come here to hear your stories and to stay strong. Right now, a glass of wine in, I feel like weeping but still resigned that it will never be. The wine usually had me feeling like calling and apologizing for ‘my part’ in causing whatever he did…lol..but not really 🙁 … Tonight though it hasnt affected me like that and I feel quite like I did the right thing. Could this be the last time I take him back and excusing his behavior???
Ohhh geeez (I relate); hot dayum this is so good!!
I was/am my grandmother’s (and perhaps) grandfather’s favorite. This made me ripe for envy and bullying via the rest of my family.
My little sister is my father’s absolute favorite and he’d sadistically (before I cut contact with him) rub it in my face constantly. My younger brother is his least favorite and my father would try and pit us against each other. Stand up guy, aye!
Anyway, the ex constantly rubbed it in my face I wasn’t his ex and that he’d prefer her. I wasn’t number one; she was and I was just alright.
I still see this theme unravel in my current (well semi current as I have no contact with the following man now) dating life: I watched a man I had previously attempted a one night stand with leave the bar with a far younger, prettier lady.
I was hurt. I felt inadequate and now I just feel a slight ache when I think about it, albeit I am mostly busy with things that benefit me and have nothing to do with him at the moment.
Oh! And recently I ran into another Mr Unavailable who had future faked me a bit and was veering toward a possible attempt at positioning me as the other woman when he got a girlfriend. I didn’t fall for it. I cut contact (and remained steadfast over a year ago).
I ran into him at a coffee house yesterday, ignored him until he said “hey”, then I looked at him and said,”Ohhhh….it’s you,” and frowned, finished my business (chatting with a warm, lovely male barista), and left!
I love your response to him! I guess you were supposed to be all bright eyed and bushy tailed to see him!
IWokeUP,
“Truth is, you hate to believe that what you saw in this person and all the fun times you had and all the ‘love’ you shared when you told yourself they were you soulmate was actually a lie.”
This so eloquently written. And an absolute truth.
Thanks Peanut, Yep sad and true.
I have to work with AC for another couple of weeks. I just started no contact. Can anyone tell me how I can handle seeing him at least three times a week?
Truth is when I see him I feel absolutely nothing, no ‘giddyheadedness’, butterflies or anything, which is good. I ask myself what I thought I ever saw in him. However, just being around him causes deep sadness and the pang of regret and he gets to see me and act out like a male peacock all the time in his head thinking that I must think he is the business.
Help.
IWokeUp
You’re in charge of you and your feelings only, not him. He doesn’t get to tell you what to do, say or think so why would you let him have this much power over you?
He can’t derail you in any way unless you let him and why would you want to do that?
Let him strut around like a peacock if he wants to, it’s no skin of your nose. Why do you care what he’s thinking and how do you know he’s going to be thinking about pulling you back in?
All you have to be is polite and if he tries or says anything, look bored and roll your eyes at him and say what is is about NO you don’t understand.
Dear girl, just don’t give him this power over you, it’s a waste of your time.
That is so true Pauline. I see him tomorrow. I pray for strength.
You can do it easily. Rarely are things as bad as we anticipate, he’s probably more scared of you and what you might do or say than you are of him.
The last time I saw the AC he must have seen that glint in my eye that said one wrong word or move and I’ll rip you a new one! It worked for me, he was almost falling over his own feet to be nice and polite. It also helped that I couldn’t have cared less what he thought of me.
Good luck and let’s know how it went.
Hugs
I received the first pull you back in ‘I love you and miss you’ text tonight. I swear before this blog, that would have been all it took to start the slow pull back into a relationship with him. I deleted it without a response. I just completed my first milestone! I swing back and forth between I cant stand him to omg I miss him. I have to keep reminding myself of what my final straw was and why it was indeed so horrible. Because of my history of taking him back, he expects that I will always do so. What he doesnt know is that I see him now quite clearly for what he is…..AN ASSCLOWN.
IwokeUp
Yep, remember all the shitty things he did and will keep doing over and over again if you let him back in. History will keep repeating itself, one of the worst things we do as women is to conveniently forget all the crappy things they do to us and we keep giving these totally sucky guys a free pass and open invitation to treat us badly again.
Words don’t mean anything to assclowns, actions do.
Really happy for you that you have finally seen him for what he is, a loser and a sucky creep. You got your power back dear girl, don’t give it away again.
Thanks Pauline. I wont. I think I did well today in portraying someone who was serious about not engaging with him and was serious about moving on. All that….. without saying one word. Im so over it. I have really sad moments when I get nostalgic but I am absolutely sure that this is not the person for me. Today our eyes met and he shot me that million dollar smile today that always got me but today I simply looked away and continued my conversation with another coworker but a part of me felt sorry for him. Why do I feel sorry for him??? He looks so sad and broken. I know I cannot go back and I have to remember the straw that broke the camels back and that given a chance he will do it again. Going to bed sad but resigned. I wont go there again.
Even if he is sad and broken it is his problem not yours do not allow this to draw you back into what is obviously a situation not good for you.
IWokeUp
You’re feeling sad and nostalgic for the man who never was.
You could see the potential of that great guy with the million dollar smile … and in reality that man never existed.
The real man is the one who treated you badly and who you had to dump in the end because you knew deep down that he didn’t love you.
Just know that the pathetic texts, the sad and broken look and whatever other manoeuvre he tries, is just designed to suck you back in. It’s all an act to play on your feelings and sympathy.
If he was serious about you and getting back together, you would be having a real conversation and getting to grips with what happened.
The fact that he sent you that pathetic text after how long since you last heard from him, says he isn’t, that’s very low effort looking for a maximum return, i.e. Getting you into bed for sex. Any guess as to what would happen afterwards if you did?
He really isn’t that special.
Pauline you are absolutely correct. He will never change. Still steadily maintaining no contact. I reward myself for each day I do. I see him for what he is. Your statement “if he was serious about you and getting back together, you would be having a real conversation and getting to grips with what happened’ hit the nail on the head. Truth is I dont even believe that having that conversation with him would change my opinion on him being an Assclown. I am completely done with him.
This post really hit home and has prompted me to share my story, convey one thing I have learned and pose a question to all of you.
Needless to say, I was in an affair that lasted a little over 3 years. I am embarrassed and ashamed that I fell into this trap of a life but I am trying to forgive myself a little bit every day. I was a big girl and I do not blame my EU for making me the OW. I did that all by myself. After an interaction with him that truly confirmed what I had suspected all along — I was an object to him that wasn’t supposed to have my own feelings or needs — I instituted a 3-month NC period followed by a hard NC period that he has periodically tried to bust. I am about a little over 1 year post the initial NC. Everyday is easier and easier but there are still moments that are hard. I have had to remind myself that this was an addiction, and that there may be days where I feel really sad but ” three steps forward-two steps backward” is still progress! Nat and ALL of you in this BR community have inspired and helped me to stay firm and strong (more than you can know) but also to know that I am worthy of respect from others and myself.
My bit of wisdom is this. About 5 months ago, my EU tried to break contact using a pretext and it worked. I thought he was in trouble and needed professional assistance (my job is to help people). Not surprising to all of you – this was an attempt to get back in. I won’t belabor the discussion – but the main point is that I actually got to have the dream discussion that we all think about having (although it wasn’t nearly that dreamy). Here’s the takeaway:
EU: We couldn’t start the A again, could we? Could we start again?
Me (WTF – mouth agape): No.
(Repeat three times)
EU: You would have to be ok with me working on my marriage.
Me (still WTF): Uh – I don’t want this. There is nothing in this for me. I deserve someone who wants me and only me and I don’t want to be with you. And, I am in a relationship that is working and I don’t want to open the door to anything that would screw that up.
EU: Oh.
Despite my finally getting to say “no thank you – your crumbs are sucky” I was a mess for weeks after that call. I learned that NC has to mean NC. There was obviously still some part of me holding onto some fantasy idea of him and for my own well being I had to let go. I have had to eliminate social settings and situations and friends from my life to do this and the real test will be if he ever tried to reach out again – I CANNOT respond. So – lesson is Nat is right. NC really is the only way to truly get better and move on. Please, all of you, stay hard and firm on this very, very important and life saving approach to caring for yourself.
Finally – my question to all of you: If we are reenacting our childhoods by people pleasing and trying to be chosen (and I agree – I am at least), what are our EUs reenacting with us?
Wising up,
These EU have some real balls! You dodge a bullet because the mere fact that he wants to continue having an affair while working on his marriage shows you what you would have gotten from him had you married him!
While I never knowingly had an affair with a married man, the ex-EU tried to talk me into engaging in his deceitful behavior by trying to meet with me after just telling me he was getting married! I guess if I had said yes and starting to catch feelings he had already manage my expectations by him telling me upfront he was getting married. Thank God, I said no and continuing moving into a positive direction.
It does get better, just stay NC and you will be fine.
Wising Up..your insight about NC comes at a good time for me. I am hanging onto “no thank you – your crumbs are sucky.” Crumbs are sucky. I am 2.5 weeks into NC. It is so friggin’ hard at times. I had a great few days and now I am struggling a bit. I know it will pass, and I will be glad I stayed strong with it. I just find wondering about him and why he doesn’t contact me can drive me nuts. I just keep repeating, “not my circus, not my monkeys.” As far as your excellent question about what the EUM’s are re-enacting…I find I can’t come up up with anything. I would love to hear others’ take on this. Thanks for sharing.
Hi Tangerine,
Let’s shake hands, I’m also 2.5 weeks in into NC! I asked my ex to not contact me anymore. His texts and emails drove me emotionally insane. He already wants to be friends, I can’t. He respected my needs and has not contacted me since.
I also wonder too much about him, but I’m sure that will slow down, since I am not getting any crumbs right know. Eventually a pigeon won’t return to the spot she found all those nice crumbs, right? I am sure you will get there too, seeing as you already have had a few great days.
Regarding the re-enactment of EUMs. Well, does it really matter? At times I find myself over-analyzing my ex, I could almost earn a PhD on his behaviour. I do it to justify that I’m sane, that I was right, that he’s the one with issues, blah blah blah. I urge myself to stop this thought train, it doesn’t lead to anything.
Also, if you come up with a great sounding re-enactment theory, then what? He will fit the box perfectly (because it’s custom made), but does that make it more true? My ex had a great childhood, great available and supporting parents. He just has a huge lack of discipline and hides this through future faking to himself and to others. These are character flaws, that’s all I can objectively say about it. All the rest is playing armchair psychologist…
Please note that this is my view on things and helps me in my healing process. It might not be the way to go for others. Just wanted to share, might help some other lost souls out there 🙂
Tangerine, keep up the NC and be proud of the 2.5 weeks already!
Umbrella,
I love your pigeon analogy, and I certainly hope they do not return to the site of the crumbs. I also could earn a Ph d in his behaviour, and you are right about it not really changing anything. I guess in some ways the wondering and the figuring it all out is just another way to stay hooked in somehow. I am trying to just breathe and remember that is those weak moments, reaching out and engaging in another round of insanity will not change a thing. At times I wish he would reach out, but that is nuts and not helpful in the long run.
I am sure each week it will get better and easier.
Thanks for your feedback….it really helps.
“Not my circus, not my monkeys”.. Love that!
That’s what I think the EUs are (re-en)acting.. They wear masks. Constantly. It must be exhausting! It’s like the circus scenario.. They are performing monkeys. It’s our choice to not join the circus and get carried away with their acts!
Well lets see, I have a unstable, malcontent, triangulating, rage-aholic, moody, couldn’t decide whether she wanted to be good or vicious towards me, emotionally and verbally abusive mother who I refer to as a bottomless snake pit and a father who has little backbone, enabling, and essentially was all about what was most easiest and convenient route for HIM. She operated in fear and intimidation. This included periodically throwing me under the bus like he is one of the siblings. Being a sensitive, intuitive, and empathetic child growing up with parents who when it came to certain things, handled it like children. My mother can/would get just down right ignorant acting like I’m some type of female competition in the street. She refused to realize that I namely don’t exist to keep her from getting pissed. She had no respect for the fact that I am my own being. Between that and dealing with teasing/bullying in school, I learned how to function in abuse and dysfunction. I handled it by blaming me. I took shit in and took shit in until I couldn’t take other folks stuff no more. Dealing with lots of depression and anxiety, and just not taking care of ljsrmissy. I found that my empathy, even keeled, and intuitiveness is my greatest strength…..and weakness! I also have an hell or high water, hell bent, ‘against all odds’ attitude. I can say that I always been highly spirited and confident in my abilities but I just recently (in the last year or two) learned how to truly take care of and look out for me. Finally getting the lady balls to be honest instead of polite. As far as my mother and father goes, I deal with them in a very abbreviated manner if at all. Problem solved. I am/and always have been at the point to where I am not really asking anyone to change…I just want them to leave me the fuck alone. How I look to my parents, namely my mother, I don’t care as there was ALWAYS some issue, she is gonna be malcontent about something. I remember being 9,10,11, and 12 and she was the same way. Now tell me, what in the hell is your 9 year old doing to you to make you call her all kinds of names including a bimbo? She is her own problem and I no longer avail myself for her to use my presence to keep her from avoiding the fact.
Hi all, I’ve recently been caught up with a MM….what’s worse is that I’m engaged so not only am I having an affair, I’m also cheating. I feel like the worst person alive.
My fiancé and I got in a huge fight a few months ago over a pre-nump, and I emotionally shutdown.
I’m a teacher and the principal above me had been eyeing me for a long time. I guess I fell prey to his tactics and now am caught in a giant dysfunctional affair.
I keep trying the NC and failing at it….as much as I know I need NC for awhile, I can’t completely end my friendship with him. It works to my advantage in too many ways politically for my career. I know that seems silly, but education is very political, ask anyone who is apart of it.
My MM is probably the most powerful gorgeous man you’ve ever seen. And I thrive off the fact he’s chosen me. He wants me, when EVERYONE in our town wants him. The funny thing is he’s married. So he isn’t actually choosing me. It’s a false sense of security,
This post truly relates to me, I was the only child. And my father always took my side over my mom. He treated me like a queen and she was the nag. It’s funny how I’ve chosen a MM who is by far the most talked about gorgeous piece of earth you’ve ever seen, and I secretly relish in the fact he’s after me….but the truth remains…I’m hurting a multitude of people in this situation.
I need to get out of this, ignore him, forgive myself, and move forward in my life. It’s hard, because I feel addicted to someone…and this I someone is not who I am betrothed to. I know it sounds awful, but please realize I cannot convey everything through this post.
I feel so horrible and judged, and it’s funny because the most raved romantic movie was about an engaged woman cheating on her fiancé with her ex…the notebook
So celebrated, but yet if it was reality, she would have been hated.
Wish my luck, and any encouragements or advice on how to finally pull the plug would be appreciated.
Trying,
Doesn’t sound like you’re ready to get married. You are making many excuses: work, his hotness and the pre-nup. You need to look deeper, as this is not about the men, but your own issues.
Do your fiance a favor: be honest and end the relationship. He doesn’t deserve this! No one does!
Interpersonally,I honestly felt I was doing the right thing. I put forth what I wanted to get back and got tired of being disappointed with the results. It spelled my being OVERRESPONSIBLE, and OVERUNDERSTANDING and too NEGLECTUL of self when it came to many. Starting with my family. I’m the most reasonable and better off child so I was scapegoated a lot! They figured ‘oh ljsrmissy will be alright’. I was also repeating the toleration of abusive ass people that moms was the template for. That and not believing in me (believed highly when it came to my skills, but lacked confidence interpersonally) enough to have the lady balls to know what I deserve and to ACT accordingly. Fear has been my biggest issue. Fear that if I don’t ‘do all of that’ then they wont get chosen. I kept throwing myself into a frickin volcano for others…..and for what?!
Now I finally have/getting the courage to act accordingly, to be it. And what I mean by acting accordingly is being HONEST. Being honest with me first and foremost. I recently had an experience with a married man who owned the bar I used to frequent. I went on Monday nights as I wanted somewhere to chill, not to get picked up on. To make a long arse story short I stopped going as the owner was looking for a shag, I didn’t want to sleep with him, and he was disrespectful/abusive. It wasn’t the patrons that was the issue, it was the owner. As a married man he felt entitled on some level to other women as we are here to service his penis. In regards to the married men, I feel like any man with a WHOLE ENTIRE WIFE doesn’t need my ‘help’ for nothing. Married men don’t need your help ladies.. don’t fall into that trap. I believe on a certain level many guys feel that women are at their disposal and EU’s and AC’s will literally try to pilfer, part and parcel another woman. I am a whole, full WOMAN. I’m not going to let a man take what he wants out of the total package and not give a crap about the rest. I know what I have to offer, and I know what ljsrmissy deserves so a man better come with that in hand or get the fuck off my (figurative) porch. Married and attached men are good for this. They wont tell you that their wife is a good wife, but they just want the thrill of some extra coochie, feel good, ego stroke. Or you are something to flirt with while you two are at work and he has nothing else to do. They are NOT going to tell you that. He hasn’t left because he don’t want to. To him you are the water/Gatorade girl, he runs to the side lines (you)to get a lil breather, a sip of water/Gatorade until he is ‘recharged’ and ready to get back into ‘the game’ which is working everyday to make life and living better, safer, nicer, and more comfortable for HIS WIFE! Not you. Remember that. For me its knowing in my core that I deserve a whole and healthy man that is here for ME…and not just here. Men are supposed to be the protectors, providers, and problem solvers.. not the other away around. Not a guy who we have to protect ourselves from because he is doing nothing but providing us with problems?
Amen ljsrmissy!!
These men are cowards and selfish and unfortantely many women fail to see this. Don’t get me wrong I am not judging anybody because I feel we all can fall prey to these men, but for me a BIG ASS red flag goes off when I know they are married! Its bad enough if they have a girlfriend, but its twice as bad when they have a wife and throw in the kids! eew
I think that we as woman need to understand that men like these are trying to turn woman in to co-conspirators in their bad behavior and many of us fall right into the trap. Once we understand that I hope we can start to make better decisions and let these men go deal with their issues.
Stephanie,
I think we also don’t realize how different men are from us. Grown people have a tendency to FIND a way of getting away from that which they want to get away from. So all of that ‘I cant leave because of money, house, car, kids, dogs, his left foot, his right foot, he has a headache, she has my favorite cd in her car, he stubbed his toe….COME On! We westerners are far too divorce happy for all those excuses.
“I think that we as woman need to understand that men like these are trying to turn woman in to co-conspirators in their bad behavior…” And us women don’t realize that these guys WILL double cross us EVERY.SINGLE.TIME.
LJ,
This is not a woman thing. The ladies are almost equal in the cheating department. Bad behavior is not gender-oriented.
I meant a male thing.
Miss Allison,
I mention men as this site is owned by a woman, the majority of BR nation are women and I believe this is a site that is namely geared towards women becoming empowered in their relationships.
Well said ljsrmissy
Over the years I have known quite a few girls who fell prey to married men. Initially the attraction was mutual and the girls thought that it would amount to something, the man would leave the wife and children and be with them.
It NEVER happened. Not one of these girls ever ended up with her married man.
Once the attraction wore off as it usually does given time, they were dumped or just used for sex until it finally hit home that this so called wonderful man had no intention of ever leaving the wife and kids for them.
All they got was heartbreak and rivers of tears.
I’ve held a few hands and helped pick up the pieces afterwards and all I can say to all you ladies out there who are thinking you are in love with a wonderful married man who’s wife doesn’t understand him (she does) is GET OUT and GET AWAY. It might feel like love on your part but it isn’t, its infatuation, your libido, your fantasy and imagination working overtime.
He gets to sleep with you and his wife. How can you possibly believe he doesn’t have sex with his wife (if that’s one of the lines he spins you). How are you going to justify his wife getting pregnant as happened to one girlfriend many years ago and this girlfriend of mine still hung on thinking he would leave his wife and baby. Talk about being in denial, eventually she woke up and dumped him when his wife got pregnant again. How bad does it have to get.
Prevention is better than cure, no matter how cute, sexy, rich or gorgeous that married man is, no matter how much you think you want him or he wants you, say NO and walk away before you get sucked into a bad situation brought on you by YOU. You are an adult and responsible for your own decisions. You made the choice to get involved with a married man when you could of said no in the first place.
I have been lurking on this site off and on for a few years. In the past, the advice helped me tremendously to understand what was going on with a MM who chased me for years, and I was able to go NC and cut ties for good. I find that most of the advice on this site is invaluable and appreciate everything I have gotten out of it.
My question to all the posters out there is, have you ever successfully entered into another relationship after learning what you have on this site? I sometimes see posters who have not had s*x or dated in years and am wondering if they are overly fearful now because of red flags, etc. Nobody is perfect and all will exhibit flaws, but are a few small negatives enough to write someone off? Not having s*x for 10 years is not normal in my book, and I would probably spontaneously combust if that happened to me. haha I wonder if some on here have been so hurt that they are overly fearful of entering a relationship with anyone.
Unfortunately, hurt and disappointment will always be a component of any relationship you enter into in life. The only way you can guard yourself against that is if you stay relationship/hook-up free. But, how is that really living?
can you believe a friend of mine said exactly that just two minutes ago on the phone?
I’m working hard to disengage from the drama with a MM -nothing got consummated but emotions ran high-. In the process I don’t want to demonize him. Because if I do, then I’ll be too raw and sensitive and closed up for future opportunities.
He is married, I don’t want that, we are leaving it at that and taking a break from each other “friends”-wise. But ultimately I want to believe some other guy will come along, will have some drama like we all do [not married, pls] and he will see equal but workable drama with me and both will be willing to accept each other and go through it.
thanks for your post.
Sometimes it’s the least unhealthy choice you can make in certain life circumstances. I live in a place where women like me (foreign, past a certain age, etc.) are seen as casual, secret hookups, women you cheat on your wife or serious girlfriend with — when we’re even seen at all. With the lines I get, never bothering with anyone, ever again, hardly seems like a worst-case scenario.
Risqué Red, it’s not being fearful, it’s being selective.
After doing so much inner work, sex has now got to be part of a relationship for me, and therefore no relationship, because my standards are high now, consequently no sex.
But life has other things to offer, stimulating work, good friendships and simply enjoying the beauty of being alive.
Learning new skills, attaining knowledge, doing stuff for someone else,is so much more rewarding a life, than being on a EUM’s hook.
Ofcourse it would be nice to meet someone, but I have done too much graft, to put up with something that is merely alright.
Sure I do have some trust issues lurking in my subconscious, and probably need to do some more exploring, but fantastic sex, with someone who can’t follow through on the real stuff, is the biggest turn off of the lot.
Louise
Thanks for your post. You have summed it up in a nutshell and I agree with everything you said.
I’m certainly not afraid, in fact I feel so much more confident that whatever happens I can handle it much better than I ever did before. Like you, still a few areas that need work and I’m getting there.
Risque
Nope, no real, functional rship since the AC, but he came round and pulled his BS right at the time I was understanding that having a meaningful rship, with an equal, ain’t gonna happen while living here. Probably why I was vulnerable to him in the first place; had a gut feeling that I was doomed here from the start. Tried to date other guys, had sex with a few, gave it up because I could tell we had zero future together. BR has really helped confirm what I’d already suspected about this area.
Natalie, everyone –
Thanks for this article and your comments. I find them so very helpful, and knowing I’m not alone – and feeling understood through this site! – has helped me bring my 4 years as an OW to a MM to a close.
I’ve often wondered if my competitiveness and need to achieve are what made me ripe for an affair in the first place. I have always been a great student, hard worker, competitive in sports. My parents are caring and sensitive, but very hands-off when it comes to expressing love and praise verbally. I really only heard it when I got wonderful grades in school or achieved something worth talking about. I craved that verbal affection, and achievements were my way of getting it, and knowing for sure that I was loved and important and good.
With the MM, I was inherently “second-best” to someone else. It triggered in me my need to be first. Best. Wanted and validated. Looking back, what’s crazy to me is that I realistically did not want him to leave his wife or break up his family – or even be with him! He’s 20 years older than me. Rather, every interaction with him triggered my competitive urge to be first – even if logically that’s not what I wanted! It made me feel awful inside. I cried alone and with him. Broke up with him numerous times, and he’d come sniffing around and I’d take him right back. I thought he came back because he truly loved me, and cared. Clearly he wouldn’t come back, knowing how intensely upset this situation made me, right?
Wrong.
Like Wising Up’s guy, he basically told me POINT-BLANK he wants it both ways. Me and his wife, and let’s just continue that way.
The rose-colored glasses are off. The fantasy man I thought he was never existed. He is gone. I’ve expressly told him I need to go “no contact” and yet he continues to pursue, text, email, which shows me he just has no capacity to care about my interests or well-being. It has been a difficult road, but I am trying to make sense of my own actions in all of this. It was wrong, wrong, wrong.
The blessing in all this is that I am slowly blossoming into a woman who is comfortable with herself, and I had to hit rock bottom to do that. (Trying But Failing, go no contact and hold on to this site for dear life. Day by day, things will get clearer. Many of us have been where you are, and when people say that NC helps healing, I’m evidence that it does.)
Thank you to the whole Baggage Reclaim community for sharing of yourselves and being a welcoming forum for very tough topics.
This spoke straight to my soul. I’ve wondered for so long why I kept getting back together with the same emotionally unavailable man who made me terribly unhappy. I can’t say that it was all bad but I felt like I was constantly trying to live up to his image of me. I would try to be the perfect girlfriend and even grew my hair because I knew he liked really long hair. It would make me anxious when we had a disagreement that I had gone too far beyond teasing and what if I said something he didn’t like. We broke up two months ago “for a break” but from speaking to family and friends I realised that the relationship was hurting me so much that it was taking away from other aspects of my life and was not going anywhere anyway. So I eventually told him that it was no longer a break but a break-up because I just didn’t think we were good for eachother in a relationship and that we had different needs. We haven’t had contact since then but I have to admit that I did feel horrible that he didn’t even send me a birthday message earlier this week. Maybe that was an unrealistic expectation but anyway the point is this post has helped me to realise that I am still holding onto my childhood where I was constantly trying to be daddy’s little girl and resenting my mother at the same time. I always had an issue with the way my mom spoke to my father, and “nagged” him about little things. I felt like she should have given him a break to be himself and why did she always drag him to social events when she knew he wasn’t a social person? Why did she act so cold to him when she was irritated with him, why couldn’t she just tell him? Why did she insist that he chew softer and get annoyed with his snoring? In my relationship that just ended I was trying really hard to be what my mother wasn’t to my father. My ex reminded me a lot of my father because he was also not very social, also prone to bouts of introspection etc but in many ways I’m only just realising that he wasn’t like my father at all because while I can call my dad at any time and he’ll be there in an instant, my ex could never offer me that. I think I was putting him on a pedestal and trying to accept him for who he was instead of being like my mother. But then a strange thing happened, my ex never appreciated that I held so much back- probably because he didn’t know, I was holding all of that inside me- so pretty soon I did start getting annoyed with him and angry that he wasn’t fulfilling my needs, angry that he placed so much importance on what he needed but not what I needed that I became my mother. I started acting cold and annoyed and speaking my mind when he did something wrong. The difference is that while I may have resented my mother for “nagging” my father, he didn’t. He stuck around and if he felt he did something wrong he would sit my mother down and talk about it, they still have these tiffs but they’re such a strong couple because of the sacrifice and compromise they’ve both given to the relationship. My ex just wasn’t that person. He left me, saying that he tried to change but he can’t and I should accept him the way he is and not have so many expectations of him. It still hurts but one good thing is that after 26 years of being so distant from mother we’ve touched base on the same land and are finally seeing eye to eye because I know what she went through and I don’t resent her anymore.
Married and otherwise attached men can’t stay out of my face, to the point where whenever someone starts going out of his way to try to get my attention, flirting, bantering, I just sit tight, do nothing, consciously detach, and say to myself, OK, where’s the girlfriend? When do I find out about the wife? Unfortunately, I am usually right.
Once I started leading with the question: “Is he really AVAILABLE?” that washed a lot of them out of the running right off the bat. Lots of people out there trying to have it both ways, as others have noted here.
If this is “unavailability attracting unavailability,” well I guess I just have to be even more unavailable than they are.
GettingStronger12 –
I could have written your post. When things were good in the relationship and I felt chosen, in control, “best,” – I would have these moments where I thought – I don’t think I really like him – why am I wasting my time on this again?” Being out for about a year has made me see the addictive and competitive aspects of the whole thing. Good on you for staying firm on NC. It is tough when these EUs make it seem like there should be no problem with you staying in touch with them.
Tangerine –
LOL at not my circus not my monkeys. Very good to keep in mind!! I agree with umbrella- whatever is plaguing my EU is and should be really of no concern to me and I am not really looking for closure or an explanation from him cause I am definitely DONE and know that there is no risk of ever going back. I think it is actually more interesting to me from a purely clinical perspective – why do we all do the crazy things we do? Sometimes knowing that makes it a lot easier to take things less personally (because almost all of the crap behavior is never about us anyway) and to move on. I think that “not taking things personally” is hard for people who want to be chosen or viewed as the best. I know that has been a struggle for me and I am getting a lot thicker skinned about this stuff the older I get!
Regardless – congratulations on 2.5 weeks (you and Umbrella)!! Every day does get easier and the light at the end of the tunnel is brighter. STAY STRONG sisters!
Red,
When I am happy and content with my dating (or not dating) life I really don’t post as much here. Problems lead me here so when I am enjoying the benefits of the work I’ve done, I’m busy doing just that. But, because I am human and still working out deeply engrained issues, I end up here when I fall.
I’m sure I’m not different than so many other women on this. Deep despair lead me to BR. Women who have happy dating lives already might not ever consider a source as this.
I don’t have sex (tried after a dry spell to no avail). For me, it’s just something that is a part of a healthy relationship. I am struggling with a lot of deeply engrained emotional wounds and had to be real about settling on bad men because I wasn’t healed enough for the commitment of a solid relationship with a solid guy.
So I am single and sexless. By choice.
Just wondering how people have moved on from being the OW? I guess I am talking about the self-forgiveness aspect. I read other blogs sometimes and the comments sections are full of, “you are a predator, the worst kind of scum,” “you are soulless slime,” “karma will get you for being so horrible.” I certainly want to take responsibility and own my part in things, but I also hope to move on and maybe be kinder to myself, since some of these negative self image things probably contributed to such self destructive behaviours in the first place….
Tangerine,
I’ve read around some of the infidelity sites too, and as a former OW it does not make comfortable reading. You have to remember that those comments are made by people who have been betrayed, lied to, and let down by someone they loved and trusted. It is in some ways easier to blame the OW and vent a lot of the fury in their drection because it is easier than looking at the real source of their pain, the AC lying next to them. They too get sucked into the “competition” to “win” the cheating MM. While you are wondering why you’re not good enough to leave his wife for, she is wondering why she wasn’t good enough to be faithful to. Whereas in reality the truth is he does it because he is just an entitled, selfish AC.
It is important to understand that the MM is not only lying to them but likely lying to the OW about what is going on in the marriage, pretending that the wife is cold, indifferent, refuses to have sex, etc etc, in order to justify his crappy treatment of her. In reality often none of these things are true and if they were why isn’t he either trying to sort it out or leaving? Very often it is the cheater who is emotionally or even physically cruel and abusive.Some of the stories are so sad. Why would you want someone who treats other people like that? I don’t think the answer lies in punishing yourself but in moving towards “meh”. Who cares how handsome, successsful, charming, blah blah blah he is.Be THANKFUL you CAN walk away and never look back, that you don’t have his children, that you won’t be wondering for the rest of your life who that text was from or why he was late home from work,
The worst stories are those where they “reconcile” only to find out years down the line he has started off again.
I am single now, nearly divorced, on my own, single mum. No romance on the cards. The thing I have feared all my life. Strangely I feel better than i ever have done. I don’t know whether I am emotionally available, or unavailable, but at the moment it doesn’t seem to matter.:-)
Mymble,
I feel the same as you. I’m alone and somehow, it doesn’t really bother me anymore. I’m not bitter, not hurt, not trying to fill a void, not actively healing any wounds, and I’m not lonely. I’ve come to terms with ‘my stuff’ and unraveled much of the emotional baggage inflicted by my parents, but that’s ongoing. If I meet a great guy and start to date, then so be it, I’m open to the possibility but for now I am happy to be just as I am. I think this is a very peaceful and open place to be. Not looking, but justing being. Instead, I’m working on projects that I always wanted to and put off out of fear or time. Today I just bought a compound mitre saw to start a new project. Noquay would be proud.
Noquay is damned proud of you. 10 or 12 inch blade? You have to calibrate the angle before doing miter cuts; and please watch them fingers; no gloves, miter saws can grab at knots, etc.
10 inch blade. I adjusted the blade last night after my mitre joints were a tiny bit off. I’m super duper careful with it. My first project turned out great.
Mymble, thanks for your thoughtful response. I feel like I am getting better every day. I am still working toward, “Who cares how handsome, successsful, charming, blah blah blah he is.Be THANKFUL you CAN walk away and never look back, that you don’t have his children, that you won’t be wondering for the rest of your life who that text was from or why he was late home from work.” This is so true.
Tangerine and Mymble
My first and mercifully brief marriage in my early 20’s was to a serial adulterer and assclown. I can’t tell you how much it hurt to be lied to and betrayed by this man I thought was wonderful and whom I loved very much.
My daughter was about 14 months old when I found some girl’s hairpins in OUR bed, they weren’t mine.
It rapidly went from bad to worse after I confronted him about what was happening. There was a huge blow up and then I started hearing all the stories from his friends. I had taken my baby girl and left at this stage.
It turned out that while he was still married to me, he was engaged to another girl, he had even bought her a diamond engagement ring. You think that’s bad enough but it gets worse, there were at least another 4 girls he was also “engaged” to not to mention the “older ladies” he was sleeping with for MONEY and GIFTS while their husbands were away. He was also an expert card cheat and would come home with a lot of money after playing poker with his friends, they never knew what he was doing. He had been doing this stuff for YEARS before I got married to this man. After I left this man and started divorce proceedings he caught me off guard one night and belted the crap out of me, left me lying on the ground with these words ringing in my ears “no woman ever leaves ME”. He also broke into the house I was living in one day when I was out and stole all my jewellery and anything else valuable he could find. I did call the police over the bashing and robbery but my word against his and nothing ever came of it. Then he started telling everyone that our daughter wasn’t his and I was sleeping around and he wasn’t going to pay maintenance etc etc. No one believed that as she looks too much like her father to deny it, this is the sort of man he is. Pathetic doesn’t even cover it.
After that he left me alone and got onto his next victim.
He did marry again and my now grown up daughter has little to do with him except for occasional contact but what she tells me says he hasn’t changed one bit, he just hides it better, he’s learnt how to.
While its very hard to forgive other women for having an affair with one’s husband, all I can say is, in a lot of cases the OW’s are conned big time by these serial cheating assclowns, this isn’t a one off as some of these MM’s would have you believe, its what they have been doing for years and will continue to do in the future, with you, if you get involved with one.
While the MM you are involved with might not be as bad as my ex 1st husband, just remember that you don’t know who he is, you’re not that close to him even if you think so, and he purposely keeps you on the peripheral of his life with the wife and kids.
You OW’s are just as much a victim as the wife only you don’t have nearly as much to lose. You don’t lose your husband, your child doesn’t lose their father (and depending on the divorce laws) you don’t lose your home and struggle financially when you have to go back to work with a small child that needs looking after, and you don’t have to fight the bastard constantly for maintenance.
That and more is what happens when you make a decision to have a “affair” with a married man and it all blows up. You can whine and cry about how hurt you are and what a low life he is but the damage done to the family and especially the kids lasts a lifetime. Think about that before you go down the path of “falling in love” with a married man.
Tangerine,
I was an OW many years ago, over 30 now, when I was in my 20s. With three married men in a row, I’m mortified to admit. I look back on those years sometime and wonder, what the hell was I thinking? Like Mymble, hearing how much agony OWs have caused wives on this and other blogs is often very uncomfortable. I know that I’m not soulless, nor am I scum or slime. I was however, terribly selfish and immature at the time. I was caught up in all kinds of weird, fantasy thinking. I wanted “experiences” because I was going to be a novelist – and we all know novelists can’t be bound by such boring things like old-fashioned morals and social rules. I wanted to FEEL everything, I wanted to experience everything. I wanted to get swept up in a romance like Tracy (a well-known cheater) and Hepburn (an OW everyone seemed to admire). Since I wasn’t interested in a real relationship with any of these guys and wasn’t trying to break up their marriages, I didn’t think what I was doing was “so bad.” It all existed in some little bubble apart from reality, like a scene from a movie.
Of course, it was a massive illusion and massively self-destructive. I can also see where I was trying to “win” affection from an unavailable man as a way of healing the hurt I felt when my father withdrew from me in my teens. None of this is an excuse of course, but I no longer hate myself for it or feel like I’m lower than dirt. I have forgiven the shallow young adult I was, and have shed many honest tears of remorse over it. If I could go back and apologize to the wives I hurt, I would do so. Since I can’t do that, I ask their forgiveness in my heart, and I forgive myself. I use what I’ve learned to help others, and I think I occasionally do.
Wiser, thank you. What you have learned has certainly helped me. I will continue to come back and read this when I am feeling low.
I’ve got lightbulbs going off all over the place now, after reading this. I see clearly now that I am obsessed with being ‘the special one’, the ‘chosen one’. And I am concerned that it’s happening in multiple areas of my life. And my relationship history is littered with it.
I could go into details, but it’s best I don’t. What good would that do? I know this is true. I want to be the special one. In fact, I find myself wanting to cultivate the drama of ‘special relationships’ with various people in my life. More than one.
How do I change this, now that I know it?
Ladies,
I just heard this theory the other day that women tend to fall for MM because nowadays they are so much more charming than the regular, commitment-resistant single guy. Single guys have so much eager women lining up to choose from that they don´t bother being nice, while the MM has to prove his worth. I don´t know if there´s something to it? I don´t think I´ve ever been approached by married men, but I have noticed that those who already have a girlfriend are more attracted to me than guys who would truly be available for a relationship. Whenever someone is hitting on me I have to check if he´s single, and if not (which is most of the time), it´s an immediate flush, but it does get frustrating.
Lilia
I think there’s really something to that. As I stated earlier, in this area, women going for marrieds is common. Not only do a lot of the single men not want to/have the ability to treat women well, most of them are not at all successful, nor do they take care of themselves or their surroundings. A married man, in a way, has had his wife raise him from the ground up. He had to get his act together to support his kids, no wife is going to tolerate poor grooming, alcohol abuse, a ski bum/party trash lifestyle. She wasn’t going to tolerate him letting himself go, turning their yard into a junk heap, gun luvvin craziness, anything that is a poor example to their kids. Most of the men who have educations, are involved in the community, are all married. The same age singles are hanging at the ski slopes or the bars. One poor soul who broke up with a married told me that she had to take out restraining orders on four single bfs previously. Within a hundred mile radius of here, we women are more educated, keep ourselves attractive, in shape, maintain our homes and land, are very involved in community, drink responsibly if at all. Most single same age men do none of these things. It’s almost as though they’re giving up on life but still blame those of us that reject them, calling us b@#$%&*, entitled, snobs. I can see why, though I do not condone it, a woman would go for a well groomed, mannered, successful married as opposed to her single (and still not truly available) male counterpart. Really sad.
I really liked this post.
I get really, really upset about “other women”. Mostly because of my childhood issues. My dad was always getting married, or getting new gfs and ignoring us. We even got farmed out to foster care at one point because one of our step mothers didn’t want us around. So when someone tells me that they are having an affair with a married man my first thoughts are with the kids who get the short end of the stick. It is even worse when they complain about the kids…ooooooh.
I think we all have our imprints from childhood. One person I know is imprinted so badly by her dad’s affairs that she is only attracted to “taken men”. I get overwhelmed if someone is really affectionate, because my dad was really cold, and thus I often shut down sexually if someone is really touchy…
Work to do…
I so relate Dancingqueen,
It can go both ways, those whose fathers had affairs and they are attracted to attached men and want to be chosen, but I often think even if they were chosen they would just discard them and move on to a new person.
Then there are those who were badly affected by the affairs their father had and don’t go anywhere near attached men.
My dad didn’t put me in care, but because he so badly wanted to be with his other woman he gave up all his obligations as a father signed all the relevant court documents to say contact was no longer an option.
I still relate to the article though I don’t go out with attached men.
I still find my self in relationships with ACs and narcissistic men always fighting and competing for their attention the competitive part of me struggles to let go and give up the fight. It is a viscous cycle to be caught up in.
Anyway I wish you luck with your current relationship.
My friend was in a similar life situation as a kid (and she felt the same way about being too touchy) but over time she managed to overcome after a number of therapy sessions.
@risque red
I am dating someone and his the second relationship that I have had since finding this site four years ago.
I have casually dated about three other men. I have slept with one. And I will probably sleep with the one I have been dating three weeks, when I am ready, if things keep going as they are.
Lilia,
This is interesting. I do have men who are not single hit on me and I do have men who are solid human beings probably just wanting to forge something with depth with me who are single (though I am not ready for that yet).
I can honestly say though when a man with a girlfriend hits on me I feel nothing but uneasiness in my stomach, I think of all the pain he must put her through (knowing that’d be me if I let it), and I am instantly turned off. And I run, far far away. Cheating men are slimy. And yes there are plenty of good available ones out there–if you are available.
For the ladies or BR Nation damn it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUuLNx3Na8Y
Great post. But maybe it’s not your need to be the favorite, rather your parents’ inability to give you as much love as you needed?
(Which is not necessarily your parents’ fault, either. It is what they were taught by their parents…)
Been in an on and off relationship with a married guy for 3.5 years now.. It’s been a roller coaster ride that has left me with the lowest self esteem ever. His wife lived in another country which made it easier for him to sugar coat things and difficult for me to see the reality as it was. I always felt he had sex with me because he loved me but that didn’t seem to be the case.. He clearly refused he couldn’t marry me because of the kid and also once his wife is back in the country he just wants to continue talking to me and doesn’t want to meet as he wants to remain loyal to his wife.. It’s been 2 months she is here, I stopped the talking but he has been calling me randomly like once in two-three weeks.. Today I called him and clearly told him I dint want any contact whatsoever because I feel so used by all that has happened in the past few years.. As usual he has denied saying any of this before and blames me for thinking bad in the sense that I feel he used me for sex.. His actions speak so there is no doubt in that.. I have blocked his numbers now and vow not to return back to this mess.. It feels my life has come to a stand still and I’m no longer that chirpy, hallo person and just turned into a super jealous and negative woman in all these years.. After reading the posts here I feel I’m not alone to feel this way but I do believe no contact is the only way to get over and there is nothing like less contact. I hope to stick to my decision and reclaim my life back. I admire all the women who have managed to remain strong and have got themselves out of this situation..
Recovering, good luck and stay strong.
God I wish I’d never met my EU MM then potentially I would have not wasted the last 2 years of my life….ditto to everything everyone has said today, and this post of Natalie’s was not only totally spot on, in terms of my experience, but also sheds new light on why I hung onto this guy for so long, and also as to why I couldn’t stay away….until he eventually ended it…it’s been 3 months and I’m just starting to resurface. Does any one else feel like me, wishing I could press the fast fwd button and make it 6 months, then 9, then 12!?
Yep Mel, I wanna fast forward many years to where I am retired, live in a place where hopefully I can meet functional, healthy, men and the issues with my dad (in a really bad way right now)are over one way or another. Right now I feel horribly lonely, overwhelmed with stuff to get done, and dreading the start of the school year when I feel more isolated and trapped. Unfortunately, we have to force, push ourselves through the bad times. Reading BR helps.
I’m curious as to what the theory is behind men who pursue women in relationships? Maybe some combination of an ego boost off of being “chosen” over the other man, while at the same time having a built in excuse not to commit and/or trust the woman?
A,
The same reason women do. The other is unavailable, so they get the sex and attention, with no commitment.
I’m thinking of AC’s in particular, and that while most OW want the man to leave his partner to be with them, it’s not the same dynamic with the AC/future faker sort.
My sister was the favored child and I was the unfavored one. I didn’t know it for years and years as I became self-absorbed just like my mother, but it was very difficile for my sister to witness the violence my dad did to me and all the verbal abuse he spewed out to my mother and me. My sister had always been self-confident and independent. She saw education as her ticket to freedom so graduated high school at 17 & off to a prestigious university she went. It was there that she met her husband who, after 22 years of marriage and three gorgeous kids, is still devoted to her. I wish I could have been less self-absorbed so I could have been more present and supportive of my sister who was in so much pain overmy suffering, my mother’s mental problems, and my father’s abusiveness toward everyone in the family but her (he tried once or twice but my sister has a big mouth, no way woulx she have let him get away with it!)
Ironically, I grew up to be an underachiever (now studying for the GRE so I can pursue my M.S. in occupational therapy). I also seem to only have chemistry with men who are available on paper (no MM’s for me, no way!) but who aren’t available to me for a real relationship. It’s like I get the heartbreak without the actual relationship to go with it. I’m one of the ones Risque Red talked about–abstinent 10+ years (except for the one time that I’ve mentioned previously on other post). Louise mentioned how healthy sex must come from a different place than it does when we’re sexually involved through our woundedness. I’d say healthy abstinence must come from the same place that healthy sex does–from who we are and what we want to give, instead of what we want to get and avoid. I’m working on it.
Hey Posey and Cris thanks for responding:)
Yes, work to do. I do agree that therapy helped: it is just hard to sometimes communicate when I feel a bit overwhelmed, without making someone feel rejected. Still trying to figure out how to do that…but onwards ladies:)
Who would’ve think it….that I…avid reader of Baggage Reclaim…would find herself in the position of a side chick/the other woman. It started out innocent. Reconnected with an old classmate from eighth grade. He’s best friends with my cousin. I grew up with most of his family in church. Seemed innocent enough. (December 2013) we’re talking, getting to know each other all over again and he tells me that he’s currently not in a relationship. Lives alone all that jazz. I see an opp for more. (Long distance mind you). We chat about commononalities, sexual things come up…still innocent. For a few months we continued to talk as friends and I was interested in going on a couple of dates with some guys here in town. If they didn’t work out, I wanted to then pursue a relationship with him. They were 1st date duds. So we start talking more. He slipped in that he and his girlfriend were considering getting back together. So did I pump the breaks….oh it gets better. Nope I didn’t. In my mind they weren’t living together and I made him promise that once they begin to be intimate to leave me alone. Basically screw me until you start up with her again because I didn’t want to be THIS other woman. So I’m drawn to him…later bed our conversation and obviously I felt like the choice…i let him be himself, he was comfortable with me, he could tell me anything. In the middle of this period…someone has moved back in. Mind you he kept saying that he only wanted me to be happy and that he didn’t want to hurt me. Do I stop talking to him….nope. I had an agenda, we already had plans to meet in Memphis and I really wanted to sleep with him and he kept saying stuff like how he could see himself with me in Atlanta (I was and still considering moving). So I push on avoiding the facts. I had an interview in Atlanta and was allowed to fly back when I wished since family was nearby. So he and I arranged a meet up 6 hours away from Atlanta to potentially have sex and finally see each other after all this time. He treated me nice. We had to meet up that evening after my interview because he had a trip with friends. That trip ended up being in my hometown for a graduation with his family and girlfriend and he knew I’d be there for the rest of the weekend. Mind you my hometown is 3 hours from Atlanta. Yes I passed home for some dick. Found out he was there from his Facebook status. So I’m ticked. But do I end it? I wanted that Memphis trip on Memorial Weekend. A week before he cancels due to getting a call from a new job. I still continued to talk to him but I used that weekend to reflect. I don’t know what self-love means. I’m very competitive and I will hinge on your every word. He made me think that I had him. I told him don’t tell me anything that you don’t mean. Reality wouldn’t hit until I’d see him with his family, people I know, knowing I would always be hidden. I feel as though I’ve lost my mind. Just the other week i cut it off. Only to send a cryptic message asking if he thought he’d be single in six months. He called, we talked. A few texts followed…last one this past Friday and I’ve freaked out ever since. No call, no text, no racy video…nothin’. Now I’m sitting here today feeling rejected. Pic up on Facebook of him traveling with this new job but we couldn’t figure out our trip!?!? I need counseling because I don’t know how to effectively erase these patterns of misplaced competitiveness. I feel stupid…like i purposely go out of my way to break my own heart. ?
Something else just popped in my mind (as I was perusing facebook and came upon my former love interest and his long time off and on girlfriend)…..and how much I really, really, really want to tell her about us….but I know she’s been through it before, she just takes him back…yet I felt that I wanted that in my life. Wake up!!
You work to win his affection instead of having him earn your affection.
It really is about the win for me. For most of my so called relationships, it was about the win. If there was another potential suitor…..I knew I’d win. Most recent EUs in my life the past couple of years…..even after the fling is over and you see them pursuing other potential suitors….I’m circling in, gathering information, making nice with them, etc. etc.
Sorry if my posts sound somewhat random. I’m unloading as I go as I really don’t want to tell her but it’s in me and I have to let it out somewhere before it eats me inside. I think I’m jealous. It’s so easy for him to just “roll over” to her while I have lonely nights that were once filled with late night phone calls. It’s such bull that I wanted this!
You’ll never win.
Oh and AlwaysLearning, I am so going to repeat your words over and over til I stand by my standards and not just go with the “feeling” and the need to “win”.
To finally stand up and tell him that I wanted a committed relationship (even though I cowardly went back to him asking if he thought he’d be single in 6 months…daft!), I was finally thinking about who I wanted to be in life. I didn’t want to be the HIDDEN WOMAN. I have too much to offer.
Words below by AlwaysLearning:
Bottom line: Who cares what he’s thinking, doing, planning, whether he cheated before or not, whether he means well or not? It’s not about him, it’s about me.
So conclusion:
1. He’s not available. Period. That’s all I should care about.
2. He’s not asking me to wait for him, not giving me a timeline, nor a chance to know him, which means he doesn’t care about me at all. Nor should care about him and his plans either because they don’t include me and they shouldn’t. I don’t want to be included!
3. Yes, I have to take stock I was pushing for some emotional affair to at least win a little bit (for me….I think a lot).
Hi all,
It’s been a while since I posted and much has happened. I have been reading BR on and off for a few months, but this post made me sit up.
I was in a relationship with a guy for a few months before he decided that he was too busy and wanted to focus on work and that I was getting in his way.
It was hurtful because he was the first guy I had liked since the AC and I felt like I was finally over the AC. But then this guy, who was definitely EU ended up sending me back into who I was before I thought I had started recovering.
A few weeks go by and I lose all self control and contact the ex-AC after 2 years post-split. He has a gf who he is “really really happy” with and he says he wants to meet me. We meet and one thing leads to another and he insists on spending the night at my place. He tries to kiss me a couple of times, but I say no. So nothing happens, but we sleep in the same bed.
I feel guilty as hell because he cheated on me and that broke me, and now I refuse to help him cheat (I believe he is already emotionally cheating). I told him so today because he wanted to spend the night over again and this time I think he would have pushed for something more. I told him that I would never be his other woman and that he needed to go and talk to his gf (who does not know about me at all).
I still want to be friends because I miss him, but I am also very much in love with him (WHY? I have no idea.). But I know that I would never be responsible for putting anyone else through what I went through when I was with him and he cheated. So I refuse to participate.
But I’m confused about what to do now. Any help would be really appreciated.
JustHer- You want to be his friend but he’s not being a friend to you nor to his gf. Stop the nonsense! You are at a low point in your life and it’s easy to go back to old ways as old ways are automatic; they don’t require thought nor energy. However, they didn’t serve you then so what makes you think they’ll serve you now? Do yourself and the innocent gf a favor and stay away from this lowlife who will bring your life even lower. “You in danger, girl!” 😉
Rosie – you are a star for replying!
I have stopped replying now, and yet he has flooded by inbox with messages professing his love and how he will “quit” his gf if I would come back to him. Awkward.
And I love the Scandal reference! You get me 😉
Hi
I just have to say ive read your posts for the last six months continued in a relationship and then finally had a reality check a few days ago and your posts have helped so much.
In fact I would say I feel liberated from making a conscious decision to stop accepting crumbs, to stop being a florence and to stop listening to excuses, i.e. im not future focused so i dont know whether i can commit to you?? Who says that other than an emotionally unavailable man. Enough said. And for the first time in years I do not want to race into finding another to replace him, im going to be on my own and enjoy it on my terms not his, he’s now firmly removed from the pedestal I put him on.
Claire
There are no short cuts for due diligence when assessing for future faking, but lovely idea or what is the bullshit-o-metre? Wonder if they manufacture in convenient hand bag size.
http://www.gifbin.com/982968