When I was a product design student, I learned through theory and experience that it’s better to recognise mistakes or even ‘failure’. Although it’s a lack of success, at the same time these also represent another opportunity for change. Recognising when something wasn’t working and applying that knowledge was better than deciding I am a product designer and anything I make is right and must work.
If you’ve ever watched something like Dragon’s Den, a British show where entrepreneurs pitch their ideas to millionaire investors, you’ll know that some people are so invested in the potential of their idea, in spite of external indications that they need to tweak or abandon, that they’ll sometimes sink hundreds of thousands of pounds into bonkers ideas. Well, sometimes our attitudes to relationships or our lives in general can be like this. We don’t know when to fold and we also don’t process ‘feedback‘.
Acting as if we’re not allowed to fail or err heightens fear of failure.
Too many people operate on a ‘not allowed to fail’ mentality which heightens a fear of failure. It’s like no mistake or lack of success can be admitted. When they eventually are, the mistake or failure is taken so deeply, so personally. It’s as if they’re seen as permanent marks on your ‘relationship record’ or your ‘life record’.
Having a ‘not allowed to fail’ mentality when you’re dating or in a relationship and recognise that all is not well or it doesn’t work out means you’ll get stuck on what you’ve ’done’.
“I’ve given you my time, energy, spent some money; I spent some ‘attraction coins’, kissed you like my life depended on it; I’ve forced myself to feel more attracted than I actually was; I had sex with you at X days/weeks/months. And just in case you didn’t know, I wouldn’t have slept with you if I didn’t think that we were serious or had the potential to be.
I used up my ‘trust fund’ (I find it hard to trust and now I don’t know how I’ll trust again); I believed in your potential, cared about you, put on my best drawers; Hell, I gave you my game face, acted like I liked things that I didn’t. I’ve shaved my legs, been on three dates with you that took up a combined total of 11 hours and 27 minutes of my life, declined a date with someone who I wasn’t interested in anyway but who I might have forced myself to be if you weren’t around; I didn’t take the number of that person that smiled at me on the train the other day. They could be the fricking one and you’ve robbed me of that chance!; I extended hope and fantasy credits amongst other things; you’d better give me my bleeeeep bleeeeeep [insert expletive of choice] relationship!”
Our mistakes and failures aren’t black marks against our worthiness.
If I focused on my various dodgy relationships, I’d see them as ‘permanent’. This would become reality because I’d carry this baggage to my relationships believing I brought less to the table. And this would all be because I had a relationship or few that didn’t work out even after I tried to bust a gut, or because I was the Other Woman. It would be like having to go out there and date like millions of others, but having penalty points. I’d show up to dates with an ankle monitor sending a beep to me every time I dare to hope or try. “Don’t get too carried away Natalie; you’re a failure.”
But my mistakes and ‘failures’ aren’t permanent; they’re events in my life that I had a part in. Back then when I was experiencing these or in the aftermath, I saw my eff-ups as a sign that I was indeed not good enough. I believed I was a failure and worthless. Now, I see them as events that taught me what I needed to know when I was ready to watch, listen, recognise, and apply.
A critical aspect of dealing with mistakes and failures is that the period of time from recognition of an issue to decisive action shrinks.
When it comes to relationships, it means the period between relationships spent dwelling on a failure also shrinks.
It’s a bit of a Goldilocks ethos. Not too short (for example weeks for a serious relationship) and not too long (years, especially if the time elapsed is greater than the relationship itself).
You are far more likely to be greatly impacted by even a brief acquaintance not working out if it takes you a very long time before you’ll work up enough confidence and energy to try again. Same for if you ricochet around from relationship to relationship avoiding your pain.
Yes, you could sit out your relationships and wait to have the ‘perfect conditions’. The truth is, though, getting out of your comfort zone, facing your fears, and putting yourself out there again, means that discomfort comes with the territory. If we could all find a relationship without risk or without even leaving the house, what an easy time we’d have. As many of you have already discovered, though, even with online dating, there’s no such thing as ‘risk free’.
When you start to look at failure and mistakes differently, you’ll realise that they are and were just relationships. These guys were not my father reincarnated for me to validate myself, nor were they gods. Yes, we have history; yes, there were feelings; and yes, we could have all stood to do quite a few things differently. It wasn’t just me in these relationships, though. If I failed, they failed, hence if they and everyone else can get on with their lives, so can I. So can you.
We don’t have to take our mistakes and failures so personally.
Unless two people have only ever been involved with each other, each of us have been with people, who’ve been with people, who’ve been with people. Believing that you’re a failure for making mistakes and having some failed relationships is a distorted perception.
We all have experiences where the sum of events surrounding them ‘lack success’. You’re a living, breathing, human being with life in you yet, so every day presents you with opportunities to grow out of mistakes and to experience success. Writing yourself off as a ‘failure’ is a waste. What are you supposed to do with the rest of your life? Not try?
Not trying again and refusing to adapt and grow, looks more like failure than a relationship not working out.
You’re independent of the events. You are not your relationships and you’re not the other person. If your identity is intrinsically tied to these, you’re at the mercy of external factors beyond your control. This is why after a breakup, it’s the relationship that should be broken, not you.
Your mistakes and any failures (bearing in mind that with the benefit of hindsight, you’ll likely see them as blessings in (painful) disguise, pave the way to your successes. You’re allowed to fail; you can only learn from it. Don’t treat each relationship like it has to be right because of your presence. It doesn’t. Allow yourself to fail at things (and move on from them), so you can allow yourself to succeed.
Your thoughts?
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OMG…Brilliant! Seriously, truly brilliant take on how I feel too often!
It’s true that I always harbour a feeling of total and utter failure when it comes to the end of a relationship even when it is one that I knew deep down wasn’t right for me. In fact, as perverse as this might sound, I think the feeling of failure is even greater when the person I’ve been dating isn’t up to snuff. It’s the backwards unhealthy part of me which believes (although I would love to deny this to my very core) that if they weren’t worthy, I’m twice the failure for not being able to make it work with “even them”!
Thank you for the timely reminder that it’s okay to make mistakes and not to get so hung up on having what feels like an appalling track record. I have learned loads, I’m not making the same mistakes, and I should be proud of myself for breaking old bad habits when it comes to dating and self-respect issues.
This is probably why I keep having to remind myself that I want a partner and NOT a project! It gives me enough comfort to walk away from a scenario that is not healthy for me. Now, I need to work harder on not beating myself up for walking away when it’s the right thing to do.
This stuff is so hard sometimes!!
Bermiegirl: Me, too! “I keep having to remind myself that I want a partner and NOT a project!”
If you have a lifetime of perfectionist tendencies to fight like I do, it’s hard to admit failure even when you know the relationship is doomed.
The most recent guy I’ve noticed seemed nice, painfully shy and wholly disinterested, in me or anyone, frankly…so I began hot pursuit! Of course, I just proceeded to make an a** of myself. It’s as if the more quirky, eccentric, and/or damaged, the more I’m attracted. I know the “double failure” well: If I couldn’t get HIM to like me then what does that say about my relationship possibilities?
Natalie, you are so right. Instead of making my unhealthy relationships define me, I need to realize why they failed, absorb the lesson (i.e. make better choices) and move on. I don’t have to go down with the ship.
“It’s as if the more quirky, eccentric, and/or damaged, the more I’m attracted. ” Can totally relate….what is up with that?? Have tried to figure it out and the best I can come up with is that I am sufficiently misguided to believe that if someone is vulnerable, they will respect my vulnerabilities in turn. The only catch is, I’ve found, that they’re not usually so much vulnerable as weak and weak men always do you wrong… Still like geeks though! lol!
Bernie,
You said. “Have tried to figure it out and the best I can come up with is that I am sufficiently misguided to believe that if someone is vulnerable, they will respect my vulnerabilities in turn.” I just learned this lesson. The guy who just dumped me had a past that left him with some big emotional challenges and he asked for some understanding, but it became clear to me that my past was seen as a liability and there as very little understanding from him. There was only room for his imperfections. I can’t deny I feel kind of set up. Once again , my gut was telling me things weren’t right, but the idea of yet ANOTHER failed relationship felt unbearable. It makes you feel like you are unlovable and the self questioning starts.
Natalie did say in one of her other posts ( one talking about disclosing your past I think) that you have to be careful to whom and when you disclose your vunerabilities. How right is that, to slowly discover, decrease/increase trust and then disclose more of yourself, past ect when it feels right. I see now, doing it too early and without due diligence is like suicide mission. If you are with an AC you just teach them how to walk all over you. My past and vunerabilities counted against me, as well as strenths and successes ( actually!!!) in my last relationship. As well as the ones before. Sometimes I would be saying something and thinking at the same time ” what am I doing , it feels wrong” and continuing anyway. Anyway, when you do NC properly you see eveything so clearly, thank you Natalie.
Thanks sushi. “you have to be careful to whom and when you disclose your vunerabilities” – too true. I’ve also, like jennynic and you, made the mistake of disclosing too much too soon. This time around, I am disclosing some things but am keeping a ton to myself. That is what my girlfriends are for; in other words, any insecurities are best mulled over with those who know you well and love you unconditionally otherwise you risk coming off as a complete basket case! ACs definitely take advantage of this to then add their problems to the mix and put them in your court also because you were stupid enough to be honest about your own shortcomings. Keep reminding myself that there is no rush. Once a man has proven his worth, he won’t bat an eyelid at any foibles of yours. He will understand, accept and love the fact that you’re human and think you all the more awesome because he will see that you rise above any such foibles.
jennynic,
“The guy who just dumped me had a past that left him with some big emotional challenges and he asked for some understanding, but it became clear to me that my past was seen as a liability and there as very little understanding from him. There was only room for his imperfections. I can’t deny I feel kind of set up”..
I resonate entirely with this. ^^^
I guess before my last relationship with AC it never occured to me that I *should* be guarded about who I share my past with and how my disclosures would be interpreted. Before I entered it I was in a relationship with another man for almost a decade and he never, ever, ever made me out to be a looney for having the issues that I do. We had a very loving , honest relationship that sadly fizzled out. I made a terrible error in that I thought naiively that every man would respond to my admissions like my first love did. What makes it worse is that I was kinda friends with AC before we started seeing each other so when I opened up freely I never expected him to take it all badly or twist and turn what I had shared to suit his own ends e.g. gas lighting, get out clause. Like you jennynic I felt very betrayed and set up. And of course he was allowed to have his issues and imperfections and the way he was behaving (consistently disrespectful) I feel exasperated mine.
I think we all just have to be selective. Like Natalie said in a previous article disclosing too early to a ‘yet to *earn* my trust’ source is kinda like handing over an AC ‘the blueprints to f&ck you over’.
“Natalie did say in one of her other posts ( one talking about disclosing your past I think) that you have to be careful to whom and when you disclose your vunerabilities. ”
She did and that was very helpful: I definitely made that mistake in my epiphany relationship. Why in the world did I think that ass would be someone to confide in lol?!;) I relate to having felt, at the time after, “set up” also or at least seeing it that way. That loser asked me soooo much about myself and seemed to really empathize with some of the small things I told him about my somewhat dysfunctional family and he ( what a surprise) also shared *so little* about himself….at the time I thought that he just was not interested in talking. Then, weeks later, when he ended up having rage issues, and I ended up responding to them by shutting down and getting quiet suddenly he was trying to imply that I had “communication issues” due to my childhood…He acted like yelling in public and insulting me was normal and I was the weird one. Okay now I can laugh but then it was sooo not funny. Gaslighting is so the word! I almost started to believe him. Sometimes it is infuriating how these guys act like such psychos and then turn it around on you no matter how nutty they act; they won’t see themselves. It leaves scars and then later you feel like you can’t judge anything from your relationships prior to them because those others were the same in the beginning…
Yet question:
But what if, say after 6 weeks- of what seems to be for me currently developing into a trusting, healthy, mutual, seemingly good relationship- you start sharing some things about your past relationships and your childhood? Is that “too soon”? I feel like it is hard to know what that phrase means? I have had several healthy relationships where we shared at this time, and yet I shared with the ass at around this time and look what I ended up with then? Is anyone else having a hard time getting into their first normal seeming relationship AAC ( after ass clown;)?
“but it became clear to me that my past was seen as a liability and there as very little understanding from him.”
OMG. This happened to me with two different men. Both of these men were narcissists, I believe and were really into “detached” interactions/relationships. One was married, the other probably was too. They act like the biggest f*kin weirdos and the moment you feel free to let loose too all of a sudden you are being judged. Messed up thing is that their sh*t is always waaayyyy worse! I do not like these kinds of men.
Bermiegirl
“I am sufficiently misguided to believe that if someone is vulnerable, they will respect my vulnerabilities in turn.”
That’s a new insight. I’ve always concluded that my self-esteem was so low that these “damaged goods guys” were the only ones I could get to date me. Ironically, my self-worth just sank lower because they treated me like something the cat dragged in. Note to self: Messed up people do not good relationship partners make.
As far as revealing vulnerabilities are concerned, I’ve become the close-mouthed detective, searching for clues and observing, almost too protective and insular. Then, I gradually reveal myself. I was so scared to tell the last man I was emotionally intimate with that (gasp!), I had three kids.
I envy your willingness to be vulnerable in a way although I understand you’ve been hurt by it. My security is on high-alert and that’s not such a good thing either.
Natalie, I swear you’ve been spying on all my relationships over the past 30-odd years! I’ve been that Relationship Perfectionist – to the extent that sometimes I’ve even flogged that 3-legged relationship donkey when he just didn’t want to get up and stagger about any more, and should have been allowed to die peacefully in his comatose state. All because I couldn’t/wouldn’t admit I made a mistake, accept the failure, learn from it and move on.
I failed to be anywhere near perfect at learning some new software at work today, got really upset about it and let it set me back a long way in my winding road towards self-esteem recovery. Your blog tonight has really given me pause for thought. As ever, your insights can be applied to many other areas in life, and not only to relationships. Lady, you are a *genius* – thank you again for all that you do.
RadioGirl,
I am literally laughing out loud in recognition at: “I’ve even flogged that 3-legged relationship donkey when he just didn’t want to get up and stagger about any more, and should have been allowed to die peacefully in his comatose state.”
Thank you!
Yeah I agree, that made my nose tickle when the coffee went up at reading that:)
Me too dancingqueen except it was hot chocolate .
I concur. You are a genius NML. Everything suddenly makes sense after I visit this site.
Having just been through (yet another) break-up, I am happy to read this. A great reminder to us all. Thank you!
This is brilliant! A few weeks ago I was feeling like a complete and utter failure. Why? because I had allowed someone who I thought was genuine to take the piss out of me. In the previous post I commented that I was future faked by someone who consistently spoke about how stunning or gorgeous or well educated all his previous dates were and how I allowed this to make me feel insecure. I thought at 37 years old he had ruined my self esteem so badly I couldn’t possibly recover and meet someone else because there was no one else out there better than him! (yes, I really thought that). No matter how many people told me I was wrong or how many posts I read here I just couldn’t stop thinking about him and how badly I had failed. I wanted validation from him so badly and thought I would never get over it.
However, it has been 3 months now and I’m starting to see sense and realise it was just an experience, I’m not a failure because someone cowardly dumped me without explanation and deleted me from their life. That’s his issue, his behaviour, frankly his loss. I can’t allow him to be the be all and end all in my life, he really isn’t worth it. I never thought that I would start to shake off the feeling of being a failure.
I had to laugh because I am guilty of wearing my best drawers to impress this twit! Lol. Like I’ve said previously I have learnt such a valuable lesson that I underrated before this experience and that is to date with my self esteem in tow.
From one who knows who cruel A coward can be…
I am so Glad to see you are doing better!!
I always seem to read your posts,I think because You and I had the same thing done to us…
You know I could never even imagined there are actual people who do that Shit everyday….
The thing I have learned and accepted is that ITS NOT ABOUT US…
I could not have been a better person to this Man…
I think he just dislikes himself for the person he is…And you know what,he should….
I am all for changing,and if someone does so great….But I highly doubt these guys will ever get help,that would require accountability…Which they certainly dont have!
I am recovering,loving this site,and soon he will be just another giggle of embarrasment when I think about dating him….
I am actually giggling right now!!!
Brenda
Brenda
You are so right…Once you accept that ITS NOT ABOUT US then you’ll be OK. Its hard because the first thing you think is it must be something I’ve done/said.
I too couldn’t have been a better person, the only thing I maybe should have done is acted on the red flags at the time and not allowed myself to get in too deep. However, you live and you learn! 🙂
“I’m not a failure because someone cowardly dumped me without explanation and deleted me from their life.”
You are right: he is a failure for being cowardly and acting like a shallow future faker. You have/had no logical reason to make his weak unmanly actions about you and it is good now that you see that:) Keep going!
Dancing Queen…
That was simply well put…Thanks for sharing that……
I too was dumped with no explanation,and deleted…
God those words made me see things more clear!!
Brenda
Stephanie, the thing that is scariest to me is that YOU BELIEVED HIM when he told all those highly fanciful lies about himself (and I’m not even going to go there with the lies he told about you!)
I think this is where it went wrong. Do remember that you have free will, and you can always exercise your constitutional right to laugh right in his face. Here are some lines you might like to use if this ever happens again.
*Start laughing, and then say ‘Oh, you are SO FUNNY – how do you just make all that stuff up like that? Honestly, you should do stand up – you really should.’
*’Oh for crying out loud, who are you? Superman? Now give me that wine list, please.’
*’Hmmmm – sounds like bullshit to me!’
*’Hey, I’ve just been reading this amazing book on narcissistic personality disorder, and there was a guy in it who sounded just like you did right then’.
*Or, more seriously – take his hand, gaze deeply into his eyes and say in your most serious voice, ‘Now, X, you and I both know that this is mostly bullshit, don’t we? But I think it’s important that you take some time to get to the roots of your issues before we go any further, so – ‘ – and this is where you stand up and get your purse – ‘I’ll be heading home now, but it was nice catching up. Buh bye.’
Walk out and don’t look back.
In all seriousness, if you really don’t feel confident enough to use even one of these lines when confronted by an arch-liar and bullshit artist of this sort, perhaps you aren’t confident enough to date again? Guys like this are bullies, plain and simple. You need to learn to recognise them quickly and make your exit swiftly before they do you real damage.
Don’t LET them mess with your head, kiddo. I love this post of Natalie’s because that whole paragraph on ‘attitude’ places responsibility squarely in OUR hands – WE let them do this to us, and this is where it has to stop.
PJM
I love your reply! The thing is during the time I was seeing him, I almost became a mute! I got caught up in the whirlwind and never told him exactly what I was thinking when the red flags were blowing in my face. BUT the next time I date I will use one of those lines if I happen to meet another narcissistic AC. I wondered why such a intelligent man with so much would talk so much s**t about himself?
One more thing…He had an obsession with comic books (ever since he was a child) and his favourite was Superman! So, yes he literally thought he was Superman!
My ex is an airline pilot, and he used a pic of Buzz Lightyear as his Fakebook profile photo for a while. He has also had the alias of “Skywalker” on a dating site. Says all you need to know really. Oh, and it might have been a more accurate alias if he’d replaced the “l” with an “n”.
I freaking love your mind. Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU, as ever. You have a crazy gift, lady. Stunning. Seriously. I don’t know how you find the words, but I am so damn grateful that you do. Over and over again.
Thanks Nat
As I consider the next stage in my life, it’s good to know that failure IS an option. Previously, I would doggedly stick it out (I think I had it confused with commitment) until I was in tatters.
It’s reassuring to tell myself “It may not work out. And that’s okay”.
Your posts have been on fire recently.
“Your posts have been on fire recently”.
Totally in agreement with you, Grace! And your own insights and comments are pretty amazing too 🙂
I think this – as so many other posts by Natalie – applies to many areas in life. I’ve often felt ashamed about having changed my field of study once, having changed my job when my former boss bullied me and having opted out of another bad job situation later on.
I used to believe changing my mind instead of “sticking it out at all cost” was a sign of immaturity and irresponsibility. I told myself I was one of those people who “never got their act together” and who “would never commit to anything”, even if most of the incidents I consider “failures” look like successes (!) from the outside, because whenever they happened, I got my act together quickly and started anew.
I’m now starting to realize I didn’t “fail” at all. I just fought for my happiness. It’s completely okay to do that again in the future, and it’s okay to not feel bad about it at all!
Oh sh***t! I just realized something ( this refers to my last comment to you Grace) and on top of it I forgot to mention, Grace, that my 76 year old stepmother is named Grace on top of it! Funny coincidence huh?
“As I consider the next stage in my life, it’s good to know that failure IS an option.”
Grace you have such a way with words that you make me laugh: I just could not read this and not think how we all, on this site, have had so much evidence that failure so IS an option with some of our “swains” that it makes me laugh that these are indeed also words that can ring in a manner other than “Failure IS an option” in a negative sense. I move to state that not only is failure an option but a preferred one at points;)
btw I forgot to comment on your comment to me many weeks ago but: yes my 86 year old dad is indeed happy in his new marriage and yes you have plenty of time for another round if you so desire:)
“Previously, I would doggedly stick it out (I think I had it confused with commitment)…”
Oh, Amen Grace! Totally the same thing here. I don’t know what the hell I thought there was to commit to, but…that’s a discussion for another day.
I agree Grace. I have been guilty of never giving up the CPR on a long dead relationship. Failure just wasn’t allowed to happen, when it has it has been the apocalypse kind.
Brilliant
The timing of this couldn’t be better, because I got dumped over the phone today. I feel bad, but the way this guy has been acting hot and cold to me, then pretty much blaming it on me has had me upside down for the past few weeks. I am having moments of feeling not good enough right now, blah blah blah, but inside underneath this humiliation is the inner voice that knows it is for the best. I see my issues here, recognize them and own them. He on the other hand doesn’t seem able to do that with his own. I do feel a bit kicked in the teeth though. I had compassion for him and the things he was having trouble with in his own life before I even came along, (one time in band camp stuff) but he had very little compassion for me. I called a friend right after it happened, he said, “You’ve come a long way, don’t let this push you backwards. You’ve come out of your shell more than I’ve ever seen you…don’t go back in.” It is hard not to get the mind set of….gosh I’ve come this far, but still it’s not good enough for someone who is even more messed up than me. Here we go again.
jennynic
“I had compassion for him and the things he was having trouble with in his own life before I even came along, (one time in band camp stuff) but he had very little compassion for me”.
Oh how I know what that feels like, from my exact same experiences in 2010/2011. The positive thing is that you recognise this as the reality of the situation between you, and that it wasn’t any good for you. Onwards!
Life is renewable… it is very hard to fail at life.
People need to be accountable – how can you be blamed for his stuff? Warped…
Can totally relate to what you’re saying. Perhaps it helps to think of this. The most gifted artisan or craftsman cannot make something wonderful without at least basic materials; the same is true for us and relationships.
If you don’t have the basic materials to start with, how or why do you expect yourself to magically whip up a wonderful relationship? It is not a failure on your part that things didn’t work out. You just didn’t have the right materials. Next time, you will have better luck in choosing and/or understanding the materials before deciding whether or not try and work with them. Set yourself up for success and be kind to yourself when you get it wrong. You’re now free to meet the right person. Be thankful, if you are able, that he set you free. xxx
P.S. that whole ‘hot/cold’ thing he was doing….classic EUM. As soon as you feel on edge with someone like that, leave them. It never gets any better. Stable, emotionally available men do not behave like that.
Sorry to hear, Jennynic, but then also glad to hear that you’re listening to the part of you that matters, the one that is saying this is for the best, this guy was not right for you, and your journey is the one that counts. Don’t freak yourself out at being good at this either. I remember being spun-out about how quickly I pulled myself together when my last relationship ended a few months back. I started to think that maybe I needed to pull the shame-bricks on top of myself, beyond the natural barbs and gentle disappointment I felt. It’s just not necessary or healthy. You don’t need to feel too bad. He wasn’t right for you.
“that whole ‘hot/cold’ thing he was doing….classic EUM. As soon as you feel on edge with someone like that, leave them. It never gets any better. Stable, emotionally available men do not behave like that.”
I do absolutely agree, Bermiegirl. For me, this will also have to involve me telling myself that I`m not feeling on edge because of my insecurities. I need to give myself more credit for…well, just about everything. Maybe that is what being authentic is really about, just feeling what you are feeling and not questionning it, acceptance of yourself as you are as opposed to trying to be what you should be – according to whom?? EUM??
So sorry, Jennynic, I know how this feels…and I understand your struggle over still feeling rejected even though the guy wasn’t worthy of you. I think rejection is what it is regardless of the source. I suppose it should feel like less so, but somehow it doesn’t. Don’t give it too much of your energy. I think if we keep taking baby steps, there will come a day when guys that can’t love us don’t seem attractive to begin with.
Thank you everyone for your replies. It’s been a rough day. We spoke on the phone today but it was more frustration. After telling me how guarded I am and that he has tried to be all in with me but that I prevented it by being guarded…..then he drops this stone cold bombshell on me, “I ‘ve been hesitant and holding back since we started dating because I don’t think I can deal with you having a child.” My son is 25 years old! He knew 6 months ago when we started dating that I have a grown son. I feel blind sided since he was blaming his distance on me being guarded…..and I took the bait and started feeling like I was messing up. I started to contort in order to ‘correct’ myself. The red flags were there. I misinterpreted them or tried to excuse them. The guy has serious emotional issues that I downplayed because I wanted this to work. I should of listened to my gut and I wouldn’t be in this situation. He warned me that he has emotional problems he still hasn’t dealt with from his childhood…..I should of heeded the warning.
I just reread Nat’s post and all your replies to me. They made me feel better and get my bearings back a little. The understanding and encouragement here really can shift a negative mindset to at least a hopeful one. And of course, you are right. It needed to happen. Things just didn’t feel right with him, even from the beginning. It’s hard to apply it to ourselves in the midst of a break up, even though we know what we need to do. Your gentle reminders were what I needed. Thank you.
jennynic, I have been reading your posts for a while, they mirrored my situation from last relationship, eerily the same, the doubts, the subtle f***ing with your brain, the walking on egshells, the fact that it was all about him. He used slightly different words and there were many layers to the problems that made him an EUM, I now wish I wasn`t such a Sherlock Holmes. I think that in a while you will look at this break up as a blessing. My ex silenced my very valid concerns several times by “breaking up” with me, which really was only a threat and a way to keep me where he wanted me, in his control, while he is deciding if a relationship is what he actually wants. I wish he actually meant it, the break up. That is why Natalie says don`t allow anyone to reject you more than once.The first time I just accepted his decision, he run back. Second time his red flag behaviour was all my fault and insecutities, I was grateful to have him back, third time I reduced myself to begging him to have me on his terms. I ended up leaving him because I couldn`t take his crap anymore, it was making me ill, and he was about to set how my relationship with my children should be like (I had to cancel on him because of my kids 3 times in 9 months and it interfered with the pub) and this is a boundary nobody is crossing. 9 months of this, followed by further 10 of him trying to reel me back onto a road to nowhere – by text of course. Afer all this I KNOW I made the right decision, it would have only gotten worse, nothing is different, he didn`t have an epiphany, he didn`t change but I did. Stay strong and believe in yourself. It doesn`t matter what they say, what they do and how you feel about it is the only thing you need to look at. Sending you hugs.
jennynic,
Him blaming your ‘child’ is just him grabbing any reason he can to keep a distance and justify his lousy behaviour. Honestly, you are better off without him.
“I had compassion for him and the things he was having trouble with in his own life before I even came along, (one time in band camp stuff) but he had very little compassion for me”.
I think for a lot of ACs another persons issues would steal their ‘thunder’..all of the attention cannot be on them and they get pissed and resentful. Also many are unable to see things from anothers perspective also due to lack of empathy.
Sushi, he won’t come back around. He was pretty cold and clear that the door was shut. It all happened so fast and he changed to cold so quickly, it’s hard to wrap my head around. It is for the best but the way it went down was mean and hurtful. Breaking up is never easy, but being coldly blamed for most of it really is an added punch.
Emma, the bit about my son really hurt. I knew it was his surefire way to end any discussion. It worked. I knew there was nothing left to say after that. I hung up. I may doubt myself sometimes and even sell myself short, but being a mom is something I am proud of. Besides, not being able to deal with my having a 25 year old son just seems very rigid.
“After telling me how guarded I am and that he has tried to be all in with me but that I prevented it by being guarded…”
In between that and him suddenly deciding that your adult child is an issue, I think this dude is a mind f*ck-er. Good Lord are you well rid of him! You have so much going for you Jenny – it’s his loss. Feel better and keep that hopeful mindset 🙂
jennynic,
this happened to me too. these guys don’t want commitment or emotional involvement unless it is them sucking emotion out of us. They are just users, plain and simple. We think that if we treat them a certain way it will be reciprocated – lending a non-judgmental ear, being compassionate. Instead, they use the information against us and as an excuse to ice us. It really amazes me how these guys all use the same playbook. It’s pretty freaky really.
Hi Everyone
” Taken so deeply ” I think that’s the problem we all have.
I processed what had happened to me a long time ago but I am still unable to feel love ( unless it’s for my family ).I have nothing but admiration for those “who know when to fold ” and have the courage to try again.
The lesson I had to learn was not to be so emotionally self-sufficient because when my world fell apart I didn’t have the resources to recover.In the past when things have hurt I avoid them but it’s pointless trying to avoid love because it’s the one thing we all need.If I am hungry I eat,but I need love and yet I avoid it.
My problem is not letting people in and suffering in silence.That is what I have to work on.I can only share these feelings with people on here because you have all been through the same.I wouldn’t have suffered such bad treatment from my ex if I could have admitted to someone I felt confused,ashamed,guilty,silly,failure,humiliated etc.
The ex brought my problems to my attention even though all he was doing was being an assclown.
I have read so much stuff on the subject and I am not sure if these are Natalie’s words or not.
” They have not rejected you,they have rejected your values and you have not rejected them ,you have rejected their values.
I hope you ladies learn a lot quicker than I did .Good luck to you all. x
Tanzanite..
I am pretty sure those are Nats words…
I too suffer in silence,For a great many things…
I have been a compulsive Gambler for the better part of my life,That is something I am totally ashamed of,soI keep it quite.
The only way I get better from time to time,and hopefully one day recover completely,is when I talk to someone,open up,Its amazing how many people show Compassion..
I Gambled to escape reality,insecurity,lowself esteem….
I choose My Men in the same fashion.There fore I ended up with people who were no Good for me,and I was no better for them…
Today I cannot say with 100% that I am clean,I still think about it alot,But I am a work in progress…
We all are I guess,You are not alone….
Much HUgs
Brenda
Hi Brenda
A lot of us turn to something else to fill the void,so you are not alone.I turn to food which is usually high in sugar.It’s no coincidence that when I was taking anti depressants I was 2 stone lighter.I have to keep telling myself “if hunger isn’t the problem,food isn’t the answer.”Food addiction isn’t considered a serious addiction because people don’t commit crimes because they are under the influence of doughnuts.Opening up to people who have gone through the same is usually a safe option.I go to weight watchers and when I lost 3lb this week the people who understand weight loss said-,” well done” opening up to the wrong people can be counter productive. When I told my dad about my weight loss he said-” you are a yo yo dieter and it will be back on next week”
I wonder where I get my negativity from ?
It is really hurtful when you admit a problem to someone and you get the response-” get a grip ” .It takes time to grieve a loss-even if he was an idiot .
You are not alone x
Tanzanite….
Good For you For losing 3 pounds!!!That is Great work…
I being one person who has suffered with weight issues my whole life,I know how hard it is too feel good about yourself.
I lost about 50 pounds 2 years back,and It felt Great.
I notice I am starting to put a few pounds back on again,so back on the right track for me..
I would be lying if I said it didnt bother me,it does…
I am sorry Your Dad says these things to you,I can almost see that he was this way most of his life..
Which Im sure has not been a great role model of how Men should be…
I am proud of you for losing those pounds…Dont let anyone bring you down or make you feel less than!
Brenda
Nat I love this one..
I cannot tell you how many times I have uttered the words”I am not Not Good enough”,because something did not work out.
I think that is what has kept me from really being Authentic…I have really kept who I really am,It is our light,not our Darkness,that is our Greatest Fear.
I am growing with you all,and I love it!
Brenda
Hey Natalie,
I used to think you were peering over my back fence but now it’s like you are inside my head (that’s a good thing BTW) and writing about what I’m subconsciously thinking! With very expensive therapy, I was able to see my past marriages were mistakes/ learning opportunities and after the demise of each one (3), I did something in my life that I probably would not have done if I remained in the marriage and led to some amazing successes. I’m grateful for each marriage, although they ended. The mistakes/failures were not permanent and were really painful blessings in disguise like you say and didn’t define me until recently. (Thanks to you and the wonderful BR community, I’m learning not to allow my daddy issues to define me as well.) I think my giant eff-up with the exMM upset the apple cart and plunged me into focusing on my past as a sordid string of dodgy marriages/relationships, which it was, but I lost sight of the fact that “if I failed, they failed, hence if they and everyone else can get on with their lives, so can I. So can you”. As I said in a previous comment, I was subtly buying into the last chance saloon mentality and I see that I could be buying into the I’m damaged goods and not good enough.
Thank you for the reminder: “… but you’re a living, breathing, human being with life in you yet, so every day presents you with opportunities to grow out of mistakes and to experience success”. I know this is true. I’ve lived it. I’ll be working on your statement: “This is why after a breakup, it’s the relationship that should be broken, not you”. I’m still struggling with the subconscious thoughts that I’m broken because there was no relationship with the exMM in the first place. And if there was no relationship, there’s no break up? It’s like coming to grips with 2 years of my life didn’t exist. Guess that’s what I signed up for as an OW, non-existence.
You’ve nailed it. I need to see myself as independent of being an OW while accepting responsibility for my role. I’m still a bit intrinsically defining myself through the giant eff-up as a OW though. Such an inspirational and uplifting post Natalie. I’m not an OW anymore and can move on. I’ve done it before! I’m kind of looking forward to what is next?
Hey Runnergirl, We both got drunk on the sex/love/validation potion offered by our MM relationships to correct our daddy issues. We went after “Be the Exception” and we failed…but did we really fail?
I can honestly say I am grateful for that horrible situation because it pulled me so low that finally I had to face MY OWN EU issues. For the first time in my life (at 50!!) I have a truly intimate relationship with someone who values me as a woman and a person. Without my fall, there would have been no rise. We were broken, but not because of our failed relationships with men. We were already broken. So I am grateful that the situation was sent to me, through the MM, to reevaluate my life and strive for something better for the second half of my life.
I finally recognized I need and want true intimacy and good love with a person of value. And I know what that looks like now…it starts with me, not the man. It is how I choose my partner, not how he chooses me. It took a full year but I love myself so much more that I will never consider allowing a man to use or hurt me again. And that is damn powerful stuff!
I was the first person in my family to graduate from college. I earned something that no one can take from me because that degree is now part of who I am and it dies with me. This journey to self love is earned by me and it is now part of who I am. I am so thankful for the result, therefore I must be thankful for the journey as well. He was part of that journey and the catalyst for a new life. I did not fail. I won the prize, and that prize was me, not him.
Hi Oldenough,
It is so wonderful to hear that you have healed, moved on, and won the prize…YOU. Of course, you are spot on. It is icing on the cake that you are now involved with a person who respects and values you because you respect and value you. I’m now totally seeing how that works. It is inspiring to read about your success as well as the other BR ladies who post. I’m so happy for you.
You are right about being grateful because the involvement with the exMM forced you to deal with your own EU issues. I’m almost to the grateful point as well. I think sinking so low as to be an OW and finding this website made me finally (at 52) face my own EU issues. I was already broken before I signed up for the torture of being an OW which is why I signed up. Thank you so much for your reply. Some days I feel like I’m almost moving toward being grateful and then I get this wave of sadness for failing to be the exception even though I rationally know there was no chance. I’m probably moving between sadness and acceptance within the grief process. I do feel that all of the exH’s were part of the journey and I really know I’m grateful. I know one day soon, the exMM will be part of the journey and I’ll be grateful for the horrible experience. I do know that I love myself more now and will never allow a man to use me like the exMM did. Even if he wasn’t my one last AC, the next AC will be flushed, now that I found my flush handle.
Beautiful: “I did not fail. I won the prize, and that prize was me, not him.” You are such an inspiration. I’m almost there. The prize is me not him.
“You’re allowed to fail – you can only learn from it.”
While driving from work this evening, I realized that I didn’t miss my ex. At first, I was in shock and my ego kicked in screaming that there was definitely something wrong with me if I didn’t miss anxiety, anger and sleepless nights. However, the healthier part of me recognized that this “failed” relationship and subsequent NC have given me a lesson in reality -I see him now for who he really is.
I finally stopped wishing, over thinking, and praying for him to change become available and give me the relationship of my dreams. What a relief!
the do not fail mentality resonates greatly in my life ever since i was young, i strived to be perfectionist. i hate mistakes, i hate failure. so i tended to avoid doing anything that would cause me to fail. hell, i even couldnt work as a teacher after i graduated because i cant get perfection from my students. its crazy thinking, but im know starting to understand things and as radiogirl said about work, i failed to graduate (i was the only one that failed) from training for my new job quite recently..i was told i wasnt good enough and booted out 3 days before graduation. so im now unemployed. not to mention, that i strived for perfection in a previous relationship and that didnt work either. my training struggle and relationships mirrors each other. i struggled through training, puting on a face, even though i probably should’ve parted ways weeks ago. same with the relationship, i put on a face and struggled for 2 years. look, i dont like to give up, and i try with everything, i dont like ‘what if’s , which is why i carry on. when i know things are not working, i need to lay them to rest and move on. i thank natalies post, my mistakes and failures are blessings in painful disguise. i am grateful for the experiences and i need to free myself from them and know that i am not a failure.
Jasmine, I am the same, and for years I struggled with the idea that because I hadn’t married, I’d failed.
Now at 42, and with failed and failing marriages all around me – those marriages were made when I was in my 20s, single, and very much the fifth wheel and patronised by the happy couples around me! – I realise that I’ve been spared a bad marriage and/or a divorce and/or an unhappy home for a new generation of children.
For the first time in my life, I really feel like I’ve got my head above water – I’m learning what real success, fulfilment, contentment and happiness look like and feel like. I think the late 30s are VERY hard years for many women – they were for me; desperation, last chance saloon – but once you cross that bridge, the view improves immensely!
PJM
I wish I was simply unmarried and not divorced.
I’m not going to beat myself up about it but … I DIDN’T EVEN WANT TO MARRY HIM, I JUST DIDN’T WANT TO FAIL.
Because an 11 month marriage, followed by a 2 year separation, followed by a divorce – which I would have to explain to any future date and to the minister should I remarry – IS SO SUCCESSFUL!
*head – desk*
Couldn’t agree more PJM, I’m also 42, unmarried, no kids and I spent my thirties in misery, chasing what I thought I wanted (marriage, babies) from completely the wrong sources. But since my personal worse-case scenario actually came to pass, on the whole I’ve been happy, confident and clear headed… who’d have thought it?!
Ladies
You are right. I’ve never suffered so much relationship-wise until I hit my mid thirties. I’m 37 so 3 years left before I finally see the light!
Stephanie, I hear ya – at 37 I felt as if I’d failed and everything had gone wrong and ended badly for me and that I just had to accept that I was one of life’s losers. I look back in amazement now at the negativity I must have given off (and it’s a vicious circle). These days, despite (or maybe because of!) having no husband, kids or property, but having changed my outlook and thought patterns and built up my self-esteem (thanks BR), and all of a sudden my 40s and beyond look pretty rosy. Just try turning the focus and energy off ‘them’ and back on yourself. Easier said than done I know, but this site really is a godsend xx
Lizzy,
I’m also 42, unmarried, no kids.. but I am struggling with it.
My last single girlfriend has just announced her engagement with someone that she met online a year ago. We set up online profiles together after I talked her into it. I met someone soon after through work who turned out to be AC and I treated him like my last chance saloon . I wish I had known about this website.I am the only one in my family and at work who is single.. How do you get to the stage when you are ok with it ?
Lou – sorry you are having a crappy time, that sucks. I don’t have any answers, I just wanted to give a bit of hope to other ladies in that horrible late 30s/early 40s ‘last chance saloon’ stage that I’ve been through – it’s not the end of everything if you don’t get married and have kids. Hard to come to terms with but it does depend on how you look at it.
What’s helped me the most is reading Baggage Reclaim every day for 18 months and taking all Natalie’s advice to heart. I was a bit of a mess for years, drinking too much (and other stuff) during my decade-long relationshit with the AC, never had a stable job, always moving from flat to flat, and I guess I hit rock bottom and the only way was up. If you’re not doing all that bad stuff to yourself then you’re halfway there already!
For as long as I remember I’d be devastated every time a friend announced a pregnancy/engagement, and used to dread turning up to family gatherings as the only single one etc etc. But now (on the whole, not always) that stuff washes over me because I have separated ‘me’ from ‘them’ and I focus on making sure I’m alright – basic stuff to most people but something I’d been taught was selfish I suppose.
For me it’s just been taking small steps each day to change the way I do things and think, and it seems to have an accumulative effect… I used to wonder why it was me who had all this bad luck but I have gradually come to see that it wasn’t bad luck, it was me making bad decisions without my own best interests at heart and then suffering the consequences.
I hope this helps a tiny bit! Just keep reading BR and believe in you and things should start panning out xx
Hi Lou –
I second Lizzy. What’s been critical for me is Making A Home – a safe place to go back to at the end of each day, that is mine, decorated the way I want. It’s a sanctuary. Having a physical place to go that you can really call your own gives you a centre and some space for doing your own thinking and coming to terms with your life.
You can work on having one of these inside yourself as well, but it really helps to have one in real life. The two often grow together – as you build your home, you build your interior sanctuary as well.
You know, I read your blog and grow stronger in my resolve to not be a “fall back” girl to someone I truly care about, any more. Then, today, he asks my best girlfriend out. She knows every awful moment of the past 16 months, as well as the good. I just broke inside when she told me. It is hard enough to realize that a relationship has failed, or was just a failure from the beginning. To have my best friend being asked out, and having her thinking of accepting. So so tired of this. Tracy
Well she can’t say she didn’t know he was an assclown!
It’s not about you.
Tracy, she is not your best friend. A true best friend would not have even told you he asked her out. She would have just told him to eff off and kept the information to herself to spare you the hurt. She is just a gossip and trying to one up you, she does not love or care for you. Do not be a volunteer for this type of behavior. NC her as well and find a new BFF.
AGREED!
Tracy, have to agree with Oldenough. If she told you and is thinking of accepting, she’s not acting as though your friendship is a priority.
Drop your loser ass “friend” like a bad habit. 😐
Tracy,
Sounds like he is doing this on purpose…and with all the knowledge your friend has of the awful moments you experienced with him….the fact that she even told you and is even in communication with the AC speaks volumes about her lack of loyalty to you and her desperation for a man…you need to flush her…you don’t need to be hurt twice over..
Great post. I feel like I am going through this right now. My current boyfriend has just lied to me about 3 things in his life. He told me he was divorced when I met him and now I find out, not technically, they still need to divide assests before it’s done. He lied about his age to get me and then lied about a card I found from his wife. He called it a farewell letter, but lied about when he got it becasue he was afraid I would think there was something going on with them. Now, I’m dealing with all this. He says he doesn;t want to lose me and I believe him, but am wondering, is this worth continuing in. He is very sorry, but his intention was to have me in his life because he likes me so much. I can see where I set myself up for these lies becasue I told him about my ex not being divorced and I won’t date a seperated man, and I questioned him on how old he was. He lied to get to go out with me and now I caught him in these lies. I don’t know if this is a time for forgiveness and give him another chance. I do like him a lot, but I’m also wondering does this have to be a ‘not allowed to fail realtionship so I don’t feel like a failure, or can I give him a chance. I do have the not allowed to fail mentality, I know and I am confused right now. My friends all have a different opinion, some say it’s not such a big deal and they think I should give him a chance, others say he lied, dump him. I too have lied about my age before, and some married people feel the divorced thing is a grey area, but I don’t know. Up until now I had him on a pedestal, he is a great guy, but now he has definately fallen off the pedestal.
chloe
I think it is a big deal. Not so much the age thing but he’s still married.
Grace is so Right…
I totally steer clear of those who cannot get divorced…
I wont even date someone who is seperated…My choice of course,Had a few bad experiences I guess….
That is a major ommission…See it for what it is!
Brenda
He failed to tell the truth
He failed to commit 100%
What else is he lying about?
He might not want to lose you, but it’s not about his terms or what he wants. You run the risk of losing yourself and your self esteem and identity. Mine was completely demolished and reduced to smouldering ashes after I held on to the assclown! ALL the damage was done AFTER I had accommodated the first instance of their disappearance/disinterest/blew cold.
It took 7 months to get over it AND intensive therapy, my work and thoughts all suffered hugely during that time. That is a huge cost and ALL of it could have been avoided had I listened to myself the first time they blew cold and the words “maybe I should dump them” came into my mind.
I will no longer make it up as I go along – now I am not dating anybody and not looking, I have done NML’s value sheet and narrowed it down to about 8 core ‘non-negotiables’. If they don’t meet the standard, its FLUSH FLUSH. Best done now rather than when I’m in the heat of the moment and being carried away. Some things are meant to fail.
Non-negotiables (the standard):
1. Ethics – If I can’t trust them, if they lie to me, dripfeed – FLUSH
2. Initmacy – if they want to be a “friend”, no sex or bag tag – FLUSH
3. Fidelity- if they are multiple dating, sleeping around – FLUSH
4. Participation – if they’re not pulling their weight and I hardly see them -FLUSH
5. Care
6. Dependability
7. Growth – if it goes backwards or into reverse – FLUSH
Some things are meant to fail. They fail everywhere else and people seem to get on fine.
“Non-negotiables (the standard):
1. Ethics – If I can’t trust them, if they lie to me, dripfeed – FLUSH
2. Initmacy – if they want to be a “friend”, no sex or bag tag – FLUSH
3. Fidelity- if they are multiple dating, sleeping around – FLUSH
4. Participation – if they’re not pulling their weight and I hardly see them -FLUSH
5. Care
6. Dependability
7. Growth – if it goes backwards or into reverse – FLUSH”
I love this tired, a very good list.
I would add for my own;
8. Acceptance: I want the person who I’m with to accept me for who I am. Controllers go bye bye.
9. Respect: I will not entertain those who wish to challenge my boundaries.
I think we all need someone who adds to our life, who has our best interests at heart.
Chloe
Perhaps rather than getting caught up in the finer detail of what he lied about, take a step back and see that he has taught you something about himself: that when he thinks you won’t like the truth, he will lie to you.
My ex did this too, and I ended up completely lost as to what was truth and what was lies. It’s very hard to sustain a trusting relationship on those terms, particularly if they then make you out to be at fault for not trusting them.
Chloe, I know you’ve decided to continue with this situation and, of course, you are in it and know the details. Magnolia posted a section of a book regarding deception and and Natalie responded with some brilliant comments about what deception means within a “relationship”. I can’t remember which post but it may be helpful to you to find the posts.
No matter how many questions I asked the exMM, I got the answers he knew I wanted to hear. He lied. Plain and simple. Of course, he didn’t want to hurt me by telling me the truth. Thus, he hurt me worse by lying.
You are not failing by opting out. You are succeeding.
A farewell card? Please! Top line: He’s still married and getting cards from his wife. Top line: Do you trust him? Top line: He’s lied to you.
PS. They never want to lose you. I heard everything you said in your comment verbatim from the exMM. I’m thinking they have a script and so do we.
runner
there is a topper line. his wife is dragging her feet over financials and sending him cards.
she’s not ready to get divorced.
i wouldn’t want to have a dog in that fight.
@Chole DUMP him NOW. I sure hope you find the strength to do it now before you get mind f’ed!
From one of my all-time favorite movies that Natalie often quotes from:
“Molly, you’re in danger, girl!”
The others have given you directions to escape routes. Follow them.
Chloe, I think he has now set you up for distrust. It is three lies, that looks like a habit. I have been in your situation, the lies continued, in the end you will not trust him or yourself.
Chloe, I would run for the hills.
I’ve been reading your blog for about a year, after the break-up of my 6 year long relationship with an EUM. I just want to thank you, you have shed light on my feelings and now I’m struggling to keep NC ( I am almost 4 months). Every article is keeping me on the track of becoming more aware of what it’s right for me.
Way to Go Crigri…
6 years Is a Long time,Give yourself some Credit…
I was only with a Man for 5 months,And No contact was near impossible,I can’t Imagine How you must be feeling..
It gets Better,Sure there are days when I miss him,But then I have to really think,Do I miss Him,Or just miss what might have been?
Mine had An anger problem,blew Hot and Cold,was As Unavailable as can get,Treated me less than at times…..
But he could also be sweet,and caring…..Its like Jeckyl and Hyde Syndrome…
When He Dissapeared,In the cruelest of fashions,I Blamed myself,Nearly had a breakdown,was depressed,and woulda,coulda,shoulda,myself to Death….And then I found Baggage Reclaim!
It has literally saved my life,Nat’s Posts,and her Spot on way of thinking,have left me speechless at times.
I was never one for School,but here,I cannot wait for the lessons and I study each and every one,and what all the Ladies have to say..
I am approaching life in a very Different Light,The dating world is not as scary as it was before as I seem to have all this Knowledge!
Its so Powerful….
I never Even knew what at EUM was before,I used to think Oh its just me,Im crazy,or Not good enough….
I am Good Enough,I am beautiful,I am Powerful beyond Imagination….And So Beautiful Lady are you!!!
Much Hugs
Brenda
I’ve been reading this site for about 6 months, and THIS — not being able to admit I failed — is why I stuck to a 25-year relationship/marriage with an EUM. When I finally did admit “failure,” it was such a relief. And I discovered that I was MUCH happier not having to succeed in that relationship. Even if it had panned out to maximum potential, it still wouldn’t have been good. I’ve been divorced for 7 years, and in a good space, but Natalie is helping me see what happened and my role in it.
I’m writing to address Tracy’s and Chloe’s comments.
Tracy — Go NC with BOTH of them. If your friend is considering dating him, then you’re playing “fall back girl” in that relationship, too. If she comes to her senses, you may want to revisit that friendship, but only if this isn’t standard behaviour for her. And for him to ask your best friend out — AC+++. Ick. Just. Plain. Mean. (as in puny, tiny, and smaaaaaall.)
Chloe– When I started dating again at 47, I was surprised to find out how many available men there were. One that I liked a lot told me that he had been divorced for a year. I helped him decorate his new house, met his kids, his brother’s family, etc. Then he told me that his divorce wasn’t final.
I had mixed feelings about this. I understand lengthy divorces — mine took over 21 months in court — so it might not have been a deal-breaker for me. But he had lied about it to get me to go out with him. What I finally figured out was that he did not allow me the information I needed to make an aware choice. He lied to me so I would do something that I might not want to do. Not something I want in a partner.
I couldn’t get past that, though I tried because I had a great time with him.
For the past 5+ years I’ve been seeing a man who doesn’t lie to me even when it would benefit him. We have our issues. But when I tell him that something he’s done has hurt me, we talk about it. Once he understands, he apologizes, and IT NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN. (I try to match that, but I do fall back into old behaviours, sometimes.) Both of you should know that there are great fellows out there, once you accept that you are worthy even if you fail.
“He lied to me so I would do something that I might not want to do. Not something I want in a partner.”
I like the clarity of that. I agree.
But of course, when it came to light in my case, what I did was rationalize — oh, he LOVES ME SO MUCH he was afraid of losing me so he lied (always lies of omissions, so deniable!) about x, y, and z.
I even felt COMPASSION for him because he was so emotionally disconnected as to need to do this childish thing, as if I were his mom and asked who took the last cookie.
But how great to hear “I’ve been seeing a man who doesn’t lie to me even when it would benefit him.” Holy crap, that’s almost revolutionary! It’s so…so… manly. What is with these boy-men with their wide eyes and plaintive “I didn’t want to tell you because it would hurt you.” And what is it with me that I would think, oh, he didn’t want to hurt me, awww.
ixnay
I hear you. Should I get involved with someone there are two things I would need to “confess” to – my age and I am divorced. Now I could very well take the high road and say these things should not be relevant to them – but that’s not my decision, it’s theirs.
If they are happy with it, fine. If not, I would be sad for a bit but – not for long. I wouldn’t make it about me.
When to tell them? I’m thinking first date. Could be premature but better TOO EARLY than TOO LATE.
What I wouldn’t do is bury my head in the sand, or continue to see the guy, flirt, be affectionate, and then land him with it when we are both quite attached. That just wouldn’t be fair.
And I would expect him to do the same for me.
The problem often with me is that I often know I’m making the mistakes I’m making as I am making them. Take last relationship for instance: where I was Future Faked and Fast Fowarded..I remember hearing those alarm bells going off in my head at the time. I remember my common sense telling me to take control of the situation. I barely knew the man and I knew that it was not at all possible that he could truely love me or know that I’m the One in such a short space of time..that he was either overestimating his level of interest or he was using those words to manipulate me into giving him what he wanted: which appears to me to be sex or possibly someone to have on his arm for whatever reasons.
When it ended I wasn’t surprised because I knew the whole thing wasn’t rational, I knew that from what I knew of him and his history that he could not maintain that level of interest in me. I was still devastated and felt like he had pissed all over me but realistically it was my own fault because I was refused to act on the mistake I knew I was making at the time..I proceeded to get sucked into the whirlwind. I refused to listen to my gut.
I have no problem with failure in general, I think that failure can be quite a positive learning experience. However in relationships it scares me because I don’t cope well when it doesn’t work out. Failure in that context equals months of tears, insomnia, anger, doubt, depression. Also, I’m finding it hard to trust myself let alone anyone else but I’m working on it.
Jean
I hear where you are coming from. I too could see the mistakes as I was making them e.g. allowing myself to be future faked, fast forwarded etc.. Realistically, I was falling for someone I didn’t know very well simply because I didn’t want to fail and I wanted HIM to be the one.
When I fail or do badly in any other aspect of my life I am able to get up, dust myself off and start again, but when it comes to relationships I’m hopeless, and easily get angry, doubtful and in the last case depressed.
When my Mum used to advise me to find happiness in myself before looking for it in a man, I didn’t really get it. But after feeling so low recently I get it! I don’t ever want to feel this way again.
I had a three-date fantasy relationship with someone that ended months ago and am still affected. Feeling like my last chance saloon is gone, I wasn’t good enough, all of it. I need to learn to process feedback and validate myself.
Choe, RUN, don’t walk, RUN as fast and as far as you can. I was in your shoes a year ago. I got involved in a LDR with a MM, he said he had been separated for 9 months but had not yet worked out the financial details of a divorce. Ok, a bit of a red flag but then again who doesn’t have some baggage at our age. (Speaking of age, he lied about his age, too.) Turns out he was actually still living with his wife, and when I figured that out he insisted that it was a “technical” marrigage, separate bedrooms, for financial reasons, and he only lied because he was afraid I would not give him a chance otherwise. He proclaimed that he was prepared to commit to me for the rest of his life. And, he DID move out, I DID go stay with him several times on his side of the pond, he and his wife DID sell their house. But funny thing, divorce just never got started, he started blowing hot and cold, and a whole new round of lies were told. Long story short, the last time he came here I decided to suprise him at the airport, and he came off the plane with–wait for it– his wife. Even after that, we started emailing (yes, I started it!), he said he was still living on his own, that now he and his wife both knew it would never work, he would write down the whole truth and share it with me, limited email contact while he worked through everything, etc., and then… nothing. Come to find out that he has moved in with his wife and he could not even tell me that, let alone the “whole truth.” I cannot begin to express how devasting this has been. All in conjunction with my immedate family melting down and my best friend dying of cancer after a horrific 6-month struggle. He knew I was going through all that; meanwhile I was trying to help HIM feel better about his guilt over his behavior toward me and his wife. Pathetic, no? I believe he has his own issues with inablity to admit failure in a 20+ year marriage and his conduct has forced him to see himself in a less than admirable light. And God knows *appearances* are so very important to him. Sadly, part of me is STILL trying to justify his behavior with mitigating circumstances, but at the end of the day I am left with the fact that he has proven to be a weak, selfish coward who will never think of anyone but himself. And wondering what my feelings for him says about ME. It’s a total mind-f**k.
Oh, no. I’m so sorry to hear this. It’s terrible when you find yourself attached to something TOXIC.
Like NML has often said ‘This is an open and shut case of as*holery!’ Bang, Bang. FLUSH!
And isn’t it always interesting when we surprise them they turn out to surprise US – with my AC and I, I had to be out of the city for a month. We were always texting (terrible) and I decided I was getting tired of that so I’d call up at 9pm as a nice surprise.
Well, what a surprise I got! I heard a car indicator clicking in the background and said “What’s that”. Turns out they’re driving on the freeway to a hook-up! We weren’t in a titled relationship (and trying to get that was like extracting hens teeth), but I spent the night in tears unable to sleep being tortured by visions of them having intercourse, and totally unable to hold any thoughts in my mind for the next three days straight.
So next time they called me, I pretended like nothing had happened and that I would hold on until I got back to sort out. This one should have failed, long ago. And I blamed myself for so long.
tired
“Sort out” is so telling – infidelity, indifference, disappearances, blowing hot and cold, fibs, another woman,.
How can I sort that out? I used to “sort out” that stuff in the past but nowadays I wouldn’t even know where to BEGIN.
I would just have to “fail” and move along.
I was rationalising, denying and minimising. I told myself in my mind that I would hold on until I got back to figure out where I stood. Terrible. When I did get back and asked what the deal was, I got a boatload of excuses and a – “I can’t explain my ambivalent feelings on the subject [me]”.
Disappointment after disappointment.
To be totally fair, I was EU as well and trying to prove myself because I was hooked and trying to validate myself and pump them up. I would not put up with this shite had I not been EU.
‘Not allowed to fail’ has been my mantra several times, because for whatever reason (they’re tall enough, they once made me a sandwich, someone else fancies them, their car was parked near mine once so it must be a sign from the universe, some other bloke told me they were a ‘top bloke’, they give me butterflies inside so that must be real love-right? blah blah) I have gone full steam ahead and ignored the alarm bells (they want me to have a three-some, they need a photo of us having s*, they communicate only via text, they cancel plans up to five minutes before they were meant to happen) which is bonkers.
The silliest thing of all, and the main reason that I adopted ‘not allowed to fail’ is i’m hoping that suddenly they’ll turn into the person I thought they were BEFORE I KNEW THEM. I would make an assumption on how they look, walk and act and fantasize about how they possibly could be and then spend far too long waiting for that person to show up. Its as friggin ridiculous as having a crush on a character in a movie.
My heart is open to love, despite having it broken lots, I just wish I could take off the rose tinted spectacles, be patient and see the positives and not ignore the negatives. The warning signs are always there whether you choose to see them or not.
Great post thanks.
After another pretty nice date (#4) with recent guy (who has three kids of his own, and so I find myself asking how open I truly am to that scenario), something occurred to me that helped: that I can take disappointment. I can take it.
I have had a “can’t fail” attitude because the feeling of disappointment in failing was mixed up with feeling like *I* suck, that *I* am a failure. I guess that is low self-esteem, when I’d go into situations thinking “I hope I don’t get disappointed again,” get disappointed (I’d be looking for reasons), and then be like, “See, stupid Magnolia, you put yourself in a situation where you got disappointed again!” The hedge against that would be to try not to invest emotionally, so as not to ever truly ‘fail.’
It’s still quite early to make a call on the potential of this dating scenario (I’m still in discovery mode), but feeling strong enough that I know I am allowed to fail has actually allowed me the pleasure of truly enjoying the guy’s company, instead of being in hypervigilant mode looking for his flaws and eff-ups. I’m strong enough now to really *actually* like someone and explore the possibility of liking them enough to be interested in commitments, but still keep grounded in the investigation of their compatibility, and know that ultimately I’ll make long-term decisions on compatibility.
Even if it doesn’t work with someone I like, but isn’t right – how can making a decision that’s right for me be “a failure”? Sure, there’s the risk that I make a mistake, trust a person, and then they let me down. While that would suck, and stir up old feelings of self-doubt, I’ll be able to handle that, too.
If in the next few years I don’t find a relationship in which I can have my own children with a partner, that would count as a pretty huge failure. I would be very, very, bummed. But I’d live.
Nat and Mags, This is perfect timing for me (we all have our moments when these posts chime!). I spent some time with this guy I have just started seeing last night. We had a great time, but then just a small thing he did (really minor, not a red or amber flag, just someone being different) sparked this moment, by myself later on, of fear. I started to go down the well of ‘what ifs’ (what if this doesn’t work, what if he isn’t as into me as he thinks, what if we’re just caught up in that early idealisation phase and readying ourselves for a fall etc, etc). It was not pleasant. Then this morning, on my walk to work, I told myself a lot of the stuff I have now found here and in Mags’s post: that it is the discovery phase, that we’re just getting to know each other, he is not the arbiter of me, our relationship is not my life journey, if I recentre the energy into me, and be kind and calming to myself, I can then give better to him and our relationship, I get to choose too whether I want to be in this, if it has to end, it will be a net positive and it won’t be because anyone has fooled anyone etc.
One thing I am not the best at is knowing the natural rhythm of things, in the early stage, I seem to be like some old sports car that conks out and bunny-hops between stretches of speed: not sure how to keep hold of my own life and sense of self, and how much to invest in the other and this idea of a relationship. I am better than I have been in the past – much more grounded in myself and keeping expectations fairly realistic and in background (ie not being hyper-vigilant about flaws or fantasizing), but I am still feeling a bit overwhelmed, like I can’t quite see what is good for me. Maybe I actually really liked the peace that came with being on my own, and now I am scared of having the possibility of another person telling me (directly or otherwise) who I am and what I am about. And I say this when this new guy is actually very positive and gentle with me.
“Maybe I actually really liked the peace that came with being on my own, and now I am scared of having the possibility of another person telling me (directly or otherwise) who I am and what I am about. And I say this when this new guy is actually very positive and gentle with me.”
Yes, I agree Elle, pace is what I am not familiar with. I keep returning to me: “What do *I* want? What do *I* want? What do *I* want?” The impulse is to wonder or assume about what he must want, when in fact I don’t know. That’s fine. I actually like not knowing for now.
And when you talk about the experience of fielding another person’s comments about you, I can relate. This guy told me that he wouldn’t have messaged me first online because I was “crazy pretty” and he would have been intimidated. Okay, besides sending me into private spasms about what I would want with a man who is intimidated by a woman’s looks, I thought instantly of Natalie’s posts on beliefs. Do I believe him?
I do not think I am, nor has my life suggested, that I am an intimidatingly good-looking woman. So this person’s statement challenges my beliefs (though it would be nice to believe it). It feels like flattery, I guess. I thought, I can choose between the pleasure of altering my beliefs to fit his (if he’s not full of it), or not. When I believed I was really hideous, I probably would have jumped on such a flattering statement and started liking him a lot or finding ways to get him to say it again.
Now I think: I really prefer to know what *I* think, and keep my own opinion, whether or not this guy is for real. If I’m with a flatterer, I stay grounded. If I’m with some guy who actually has a real boner for someone with my looks – bonus! – but I still stay grounded in establishing my own opinion of myself (which is, btw, sexier every day).
A great moment of realizing how far I’ve come: my opinion genuinely matters to me more than even this (cute!) guy’s. I think discovering that helps me not freak out so much about the idea of letting a man into my life, if I have learned that I can handle someone else’s observations about me without giving them more weight than my own.
This was really insightful Magnolia. In relationships, I feel I care too much about what the other thinks of me; do they like the way I look, do they think I’m intelligent/funny/interesting, do they think I’m good in bed…etc. And I realise by doing this you give out too much control. If your opinion on yourself is based on anothers then they have the power to control it. Sadly some people WANT their partners to feel badly about themselves..they will be less likey to leave if they do not have the confidence to. Others use charm and flattery to manipulate.
By have your own firm opinion of yourself that cannot be swayed by a comment, remark, glance etc we give ourselves power.
Thanks Mags. All of it very useful and kind. It’s funny what you say, I actually have to go through the motions of bringing thoughts back to me (in the soft sense, of me remembering that I am on my own team etc), when I am about to obsess about a remark or look from a loved-one. I am getting better at it, but geez, it’s a discipline! I was in an intense situation growing up, always watched and criticised and often belittled and talked over. Have had lovely experiences and other relationships and friendships to balance this out, and obviously have my own little (fireball) spirit doing what it does, but still, the whole criticism and judgement thing remains quite the challenge. The truth is, I can see sometimes that when I am feeling judged by someone, I am actually judging them and turning it back onto me. I don’t do that often, but I do it.
Anyway, taking this for sure: Now I think: I really prefer to know what *I* think, and keep my own opinion.
Thanks again, Mags, and hope it all unfolds nicely with this guy, with your above mantra guiding you.
Thanks for all your replies. I have been to his home and spent nights there so his wife is not living with him. Yes, I agree, he lied to get me to go out with me and therefore, I didn’t get a chance to make an educated decision. Still not sure I’m ready to flush him. We are getting together tomorrow night and I am taking this as code amber, ask questions and be aware, but yes, it is unfortunate that he has caused a rip in the trust department. And as you mentioned Otter2 I don’t know if I will get past it. I am willing to see if I can, but if I start finding myself turning into a bitch because I can’t get past it, then it will have to be over. I went through all the bs of divorce with my last ex and vowed I won’t get into that again. This man has not shared any of his stuff with me, well, he did mention he owed her some money for the house when it’s sold and that she was going after his pension, and I think I did say, but you are divorced, he said there were still some things to complete. I guess I should have known then that he couldn’t be divorced yet, but I let it go. Now, I know I will want details, as I did with my ex and that’s when I may not like what I hear (and he may lie some more), or may get involved in the process. So, I’ll see how I feel when I see him and talk to him. Yes, my heart is involved, but it is also quite cautious. We still haven’t had sex yet, so my heart is not as involved as it could be. We have been dating over 2 months now. I will tell him if he lies one more time it will be over. Not sure how easy that will be. I plan to ask a lot of questions and will be on the lookout for more lies.
chloe
“I plan to ask a lot of questions and will be on the lookout for more lies”.
That’s not a relationship. It’s an investigation.
A relationship without trust is nothing. Also, if he is lying this early on into the relationship it does not signal good things to come.
Chloe what is the matter with you? You are setting yourself up to get played and used. You come here for advice and to vent but you’re just going back for more of the same!
“We have been dating over 2 months now. I will tell him if he lies one more time it will be over. Not sure how easy that will be. I plan to ask a lot of questions and will be on the lookout for more lies.”
Good grief girl! NOW is the time to bail!! No sex within two months is perfect but all those lies is a RED FLAG. All the rest of us can see it but you can’t. Gurl!
Chloe, Please listen to Flower White and everyone else. I dragged out a bad relationship with a liar waaaaayyyy longer than I should have – ever after coming here. Did not have sex with him *thank gawd* but he did some damage. Did I learn? Yes. But, I’d rather not have learned that lesson. I honestly wish I’d listened to the ladies here at BR early on but I guess some of us have to learn the hard way. It was my first (and last) experience with a MM. You deserve better than a MM even if he is in the process of divorcing. Truly. Besides, he needs to grieve the demise of his marriage and he is likely using you as a rebound.
This post is a reminder that I need to let it go . . . and let him go. Some days are better than others. Today- not so good. It has been months since I called it off with the AC. Never before has it taken so long and been so arduous to get past something like this. Maybe it’s my lack of experience. This is the first time I was future faked and fast forwarded, and led to believe that I was the exception to the rule. I didn’t even know what any of that was until I discovered this website. Then, it was a long, painful crash into reality. So often I have wanted to contact him to clarify the ambiguous ending (I simply stopped contacting him and I never heard from him). I want to know the extent of his interest in me, what he intended, what I meant to him, whether I was really special to him. It sounds so stupid even as I write it out. I just need to block him out and move on with my life. Our paths still cross ocassionally and we are friends on FB (I can’t bring myself to deactivate my account).
I think the sticking point is this: In the end, he didn’t make me the exception to his rule, which means that either I wasn’t special enough or that man I loved was simply a cheat and liar. Either way, I lose. Well, I am allowed to fail. And fail I did. I must accept that I made a mistake, cut my losses and move on. Keep busy and hold onto the joyful moments. Thank you for this website, and for letting me share.
Daisy, you’re hugging the knife that’s slicing you up.
Have you considered de-friending him on FB, so that you won’t keep watching how his life is going? If he asks for an explanation, ignore him. Don’t break NC; you sound really vulnerable right now.
“In the end, he didn’t make me the exception to his rule, which means that either I wasn’t special enough or that man I loved was simply a cheat and liar. Either way, I lose.”
No, my dear. You ARE special enough, and if he couldn’t see that, then HE is not good enough for YOU. You deserve a man who’s bonkers about you, and if he isn’t, then walk away. At best he’s a dolt, and who needs that? and at worst he is a cheat and a liar.
So you made a bad choice with him. Big deal! We all do that, and if we are smart – which you are – we gradually learn to make good choices instead.
If you think you’re obsessing about him, perhaps it would help to talk to a counsellor about this – obsessing usually affects other areas of a person’s life as well, and you can learn some tools for breaking the obsession cycle generally.
I have thought long and hard about the ambiguity. When I am clear minded about things, I see that the ambiguity was a way to maintain distance. Also, it is a sign that things were not on the up and up. Is there ambiguity in your true friendships? No. Can you clarify intent, feelings and misunderstandings in a true friendship? Yes. If there is ambiguity and confusion, I believe it is a sign of a tenuous, uneven and unmatched relationship. So, when I cannot determine “extent of interest…intention…what I meant to him …if I was special to him”, It means our relationship and our investments in it were mismatched.
It is an effort not to internalize it and find reasons to blame myself. I do see myself at having failed.
Daisy,
Sometimes we have to answer those tough questions on our own – based in reality and without denying or minimizing what happened. Sometimes we get those answers from the person and it’s not what we want to hear, or it starts conversations that lead back into an on/off relationship (a.k.a. relationship insanity). And sometimes we will never know the true answers. All that matters is that he was an AC, and you had the strength to walk away.
What you wrote could have easily been written by myself. The exact thing happened to me. I get very upset when I think of the fact that he didn’t fight for me after all he said. Seemingly he was just talking out of his bum.
Sometimes I’m extremely tempted to break NC but I have too much pride..his ego is already out of control and requires no futher pumping up..and that’s exactly what breaking NC will do. Stay NC. Ride it out. Defriend him on FB (he’s not your friend.. he does not deserve the privilege). It will be easier to get over him and move on if you have full NC.
Hi Daisy, I go through this too. I did finish with mine face to face but he never really said what he thought or felt. He didn’t try to talk me down though. So I am no wiser than you. Thing is to focus on his actions, that will likely tell you what you need to know. You must have been feeling very hurt and anxious to have just gone NC on him. What could he possibly say that would take that away? Even ACs have feelings, I expect he did have feelings of some sort for you and has felt some pain, (if not as much as you), but it wasn’t going to work out the way you wanted. It MAY even be that he is trying to do the right thing by staying away. As Natalie says it isn’t really a compliment when they chase you down in the knowledge that they do not have serious intentions.
I am on my second go of NC, I let him back previously when he came knocking. But on the second go-round it became painfully clear that everything I thought and suspected the first time was right. He went from hot, to lukewarm, and was moving towards cool when I ended it. It was never going to get better, only worse.
Its nothing to do with not being special, show me a woman so special she hasnt ever had a failed relationship! There can’t be many of them. (And in an OW situation the odds are really stacked against you).
Thank you all for the kind responses. Yes, the ambiguity was so difficult. But life IS better without him – I feel like I can breathe again. I just need to break free from the obsessing. I think I’ve been pulled toward him because I am unhappy in my own life, so that is what I need to focus on- my life. I am finally accepting that he won’t be a part of it and I must move forward.
I read somewhere about making a list of joyful activities and incorporating some into each day of your life. Then acknowledge and remember the joyful feelings when they happen, even if they are only momentary. So that is what I will focus on today, then tomorrow, and the days after . . . . I am so grateful for this site and the wise, thoughtful women who post here.
I’ve been struggling with the “failure” of a relationship in which the 43 yr old AC decided to move away to another city to pursue his dream, but wanted to keep me hanging on the side, while exploring his options. The week before he was telling my mom how he had looked up jobs for me so I could move with him. As soon as he used his passive aggressive approach to tell me he wanted to date other women, my gut screamed “NO!!!!!” = Success.
Ladies, rather than taking the end of these heartbreaking relationships as your own personal failure, why not shift the failure on these men instead. They are the failures. They failed us, our hearts, our generosity, our support, our understanding, our love!
I have had bad days, but am trying to hold strong with NC, even though he has texted because he “cares” about me or is thinking about me. Well, he doesn’t care to fly back here and show me how much he cares. The thing is, these guys will never have the guts to give their hearts fully to anyone, which to me is a total FAIL.
I’m the ex queen of this!
My ex, the bisexual who had an ex boyfriend whom he lied about and said was his ex girlfriend (!!!) came into my life a month after my mother died I was grief sticken and depressed. He took clear advantage of me, I was a needy, weepy mess. My mother!
If not, I would have broken up with on the spot when I found out his deception instead I stayed a year and 2 months afterward of arguements and his drunken rages…when the grief fog cleared I dumped his ass in therapy, basically have been single no boyfriends, haven’t had sex in almost two years.
Now I know much much better I am willing to open my heart to love and I am willing to be alone and I am committed to bailing at first sign of bullchit!
I vet men like a pro. First sign of a bisexual past, I am gone. First sign of being a boozehound I am gone, I notice all red flags and gracefully bow out.
I’d like to be married and I’d like to stay sane wonder if the twain shall meet 😉
My mother is separated after 20 years. She was married to an assclown – a violent one too. Ticked every single box you can think of under ‘Domestic Violence’.
She thinks all men are bad now, tarring them all with the same brush. I would suggest that bi people are not the source of assclownary… assclowns are.
I’ve had a bisexual partner before – actually the only one that treated me decently!
Good for you. I and most straight women chose not to date bisexual men for our own personal reasons. Again, the dude I was with LIED about his bisexuality, I asked him right from the start told him I do not date bi men, he denied it and lied to right to my face! No, I don’t want to date a bi guy and that is MY personal choice.
And, cause he was closeted about it he drank more.
If bi guys treat you so well, why not continue to date them??
The fear of failure – whether in relationships or other things – is very real and can be very strong. It takes daily work to fight against it. Take it from me. But it’s better to fight it than remain frozen in fear and, therefore, your life.
As usual, good one. Off to read the comments.
I love this post Natalie, made me praise my experience, my past. my journey to date and embrace the learning curve I’m on .
We can get so so so stuck in why we didn’t stay(itemizing his failures!!), rather than embracing why we were powerful enough to leave. In short we forget, Us.
Hell, we are great when we get this. Unstoppable really.
l left because I know myself very well, thankfully(and well into my forties!). I left because I recognised a pattern in me and in him that was both repetitive and intense. I also recognise ‘the faltering’ when it happens.
After three years of Baggage Reclaim. I get it.
Now, I must continue to live it.
This is a tough one for me. Because when I read your blogs sometimes, I think to myself wasn’t this my ex’s rationale for leaving? So wasn’t my ex right to do it? And it makes me feel like crap.
And then I have to remind myself who sabotaged the relationship, who future faked, who changed the powerbase early on by threatening to leave for a dumb reason that had nothing to do with me, who refused to talk about/discuss anything.
And then I have to struggle to put it into perspective, to try to tell myself that while my ex acted like our relationship was (and lovers in general are) disposable, the lesson I need to learn is that relationships are fail-able, that I’ve got to learn to recognise when the horse is dead and stop trying to flog it and bounce!
I really needed to read this, Natalie. I’ve been beating myself up over a mistake I made. I sent an email in anger and haven’t heard from the guy since. He also had a part in it as you say because he is one of the ones who is too “busy” and always has an excuse why he didn’t contact me. Yes, I compromised my principles by lashing out in the heat of the moment rather than waiting till the anger had passed, but I don’t deserve the silent treatment. Maybe he just needs a little time or maybe this is one of those relationship lessons that I will take with me. Time will tell. I know everything happens for a reason so I can’t regret what happened.
Its over, move on, live and learn, too much drama.
He’s too busy to see you cause he doesn’t want to see you and you took the bait and created a reason for him to sign off.
Feast to Famine,
I think I sent a million e-mails after the MM iced me when I wouldn’t get a room. When I, the potential OW wouldn’t get a room. On the one hand, I am mortified. On the other, IDGAF. Anyway, his crazy ass called me crazy for the sending the e-mails. THAT was an instant love buzzkill. And when I reminded him that he completely shunned me, he realized the part he played in the whole dramatic *preach Flower White* mess. Then he tried to play nice with me but I went NC again. What a mess indeed.
“What makes it worse is that I was kinda friends with AC before we started seeing each other so when I opened up freely I never expected him to take it all badly or twist and turn what I had shared to suit his own ends e.g. gas lighting, get out clause. Like you jennynic I felt very betrayed and set up. And of course he was allowed to have his issues and imperfections and the way he was behaving (consistently disrespectful) I feel exasperated mine.”
Me too! Gas lighting and get out clause. My, my, are these guys really this scary similar? Never again.