Some people roll with the You’re either with me or against me attitude, so they have a dangerous expectation that if we are their family member / friend / partner etc, we must always agree with them (even if we don’t) and anything they perceive as criticism can be met with a great deal of hostility and/or radio silence, so we can be chopped from their lives temporarily or permanently and not always know why, or be baffled as to how it escalated to that level or why there was little or no conversation.
Even without this attitude, conflict and criticism (C-situations), whether it’s the actuality of it or just the potential for it, does bring up vulnerability and if we are not comfortable with expressing our truth as we know it at that time, or stepping up for ourselves, hearing their side or dealing with any potential fallout, we may feel inclined to ‘go dark’ so that we remain safe. Our comfort zone can become not honouring our boundaries and not learning how to navigate conflict and criticism because at least we don’t allow anybody to get close enough to us that we might not be able to deal with what we regard as the bigger pain of disappointment. We use associations with past experiences to inform us and then end up wondering why we’re simmering in resentment or feeling isolated even if technically, there are people around us.
Ten years ago, when I embarked on having boundaries, I was terrified of the vulnerability that came with not only getting honest with me about my own needs, feelings, expectations, desires, opinions and beliefs and how I was going to go about honouring these, but that also came with having to express them with others. Both sides of my family are not into discussing or apologising. This one isn’t talking to that one and I’m sure half the time they can’t even remember why. I hardly know most of my mother’s family and on my father’s side, they’re very Soprano-ish (clan-like not putting bodies in the back of cars), so if you annoy one, you annoy them all, hence why it’s mostly been tumbleweeds since I got married.
If I were to go by my experiences with my family (and similar people), I would be terrified of having boundaries and dealing with C-situations, so I’d just keep it zipped, do whatever I think is pleasing, and fester in misery. No thanks!
Back then, I was afraid of allowing people to be close enough to my truth that it would hurt if they didn’t react in the way that I wanted or predicted. I feared hearing their opinions about my boundaries because I wondered, What if they don’t agree with or like them? What if they cannot do what I expect? What if they criticise and judge me? What if I have boundaries and everyone abandons me?
The funny thing about not having boundaries is that when you think about the prospect of having them, you imagine a hell of lot more conversations and conflict about boundaries than is the reality.
I was terrified of hearing their opinions and dealing with their responses about my boundaries and what appeared to be the easy thing to do was to either go down a well worn path of not having boundaries and then being miserable, or cut them off.
Sometimes cutting people off is seen as the ‘easy’ option because we don’t have to deal with anything. We can just shut it off… or at least try to. Incidentally, this is exactly why some people disappear. (And before anybody asks, disappearing is entirely different to No Contact!)
There are situations and people for whom removing yourself is the best option because they’ve made it absolutely clear that they’re not going to respect your boundaries. They have selective hearing and memory; they try to influence and control you by force; they seek to get their own needs, desires etc met by force, and the relationship is essentially abusive and destructive. Whether it’s romantic, familial, coworker or friendship, somebody who behaves like this will drain the life out of you and drag you down, all while probably blaming you for it too.
Sometimes, it’s not so much that the relationship is abusive but it’s become exhausting, you’ve reached an impasse and there just isn’t a great deal left to say or do that hasn’t already been covered. It’s not even that either side is cutting off– you just stop engaging. The situation is accepted for what it is and over time, you grieve and make your peace with it. You might even get to the point of appreciating the relationship for what it taught you or for the good times but knowing that that season of your life has passed because you can’t remain in a time warp. You’ve evolved.
When I come across people who have the, You’re either with me or against me attitude, they’re often triggered by previous memories of conflict and criticism including feeling ganged upon, unheard, made to be “wrong”, or played for a fool, so they go to the nth degree in defensiveness and don’t distinguish between the past and the present. When they’re in the wrong, rather than admit it, they actually spin their wheels in the conflict trenches and spread more mud splatter. There can even be this fear that in being vulnerable and acknowledging their part no matter how small, that they’re conceding something to someone from the past, so not being “100% right” is seen as terrible. Once recognition that they’re off base or even going OTT creeps in, embarrassment or even shame (even if they won’t admit it) causes them to cut off and then rather than apologise or try to have a discussion when they’ve calmed down, they either stay away for good or they come back when they think that we’ve forgotten about it or that we’ll be feeling too awkward about spoiling the mood by “bringing up old sh*t”. If we do try to discuss it, they’ll bust a gut trying to sweep it under the carpet or vanish again.
Sometimes as humans, we have to stand still and allow ourselves to be seen and to see others.
It is very tempting when we have to be vulnerable with people, to do the opposite and put up walls or even cut them off entirely so we don’t have to deal with them (or us). Unfortunately walls take their toll and it’s not always a workable solution to cut off for instance, a family member plus when we do it as a habit, one day we realise that sometimes we’ve thrown the baby out with the bathwater and all just so that we wouldn’t see, hear or feel certain things that might have grown us in some way, that were not as bad as we predicted, and in fact are more of a release for us than the feelings, thoughts, and things that we’ve dealt with in our quest to avoid.
We realise that all of this cutting off for any and everything that we don’t like has meant that we’re almost in a guarded position waiting to put down the gauntlet and that doesn’t leave much room for love, care, trust and respect.
We discover that it’s not better to hide behind the mask of bad boundaries and that fear of being authentic and the vulnerability that comes with it, is compromising and hurting us in greater ways than vulnerability itself.
Your thoughts?
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This is pure gold:
“The funny thing about not having boundaries is that when you think about the prospect of having them, you imagine a hell of lot more conversations and conflict about boundaries than is the reality.”
I spend SO MUCH TIME imagining abandonment after setting imaginary boundaries that I rarely, if ever, actually (have to) set in the ways I imagine. Often all that does is make me jump the gun and set up the battelements for conflict when there doesn’t even need to be one at all.
Thank you so much for this, Nat. I am right here in this transition right now, where I am learning that instead of demanding superficial checkpoints (take me on a fancy date and be perfect, and if not go f*ck yourself), I need to just be honest about how things make me feel and be willing to express that. This is really f*ing scary, but being heard and allowed to navigate what to do and where to go in a real-world environment at my own pace is priceless. I didn’t realize how much of a power struggle I was used to engaging in until it just didn’t compute with someone who had simple and honest intentions. Communicating with someone without a script or a preconceived notion of the ensuing conflict creates a precious space for relieving tension and rebooting at a more honest place.
In reality, a walk in the park and a beer sounds lovely, but then gets perverted by these fear-based overlays that if it doesn’t fit the fantasy roadmap I won’t get to pot of gold love land. The make-me-a-fairytale-and-you-get-sex exchange has gotten so very old and has little to do with who I actually am as a person.
“I didn’t realize how much of a power struggle I was used to engaging in until it just didn’t compute with someone who had simple and honest intentions.”
This is EXACTLY what I needed to hear this morning, as I have just started a new relationship with a good man and am already playing the “how many times does he need to text for me to feel loved” game, which is a remnant from hurtful past relationships. Just breathe and enjoy this time.
Im blessed by the Universe yet again! Ive been searching for help on this exact issue and here it is!!
I saw my psychologist yesterday and spoke to her about this subject. Im inclined to avoid conflict or resolution by cutting people out of my life to some degree or another. I hate having the feeling of not being agreed with. Ive always struggled with feeling accepted and the fear of not being agreed with makes me feel worthless. Vulnerability can be so scary!
As I mentioned, Im working on this and thank you Nat for posting this blog cause its delved into the matter more for me a lot more.
Char,
I think the more intense the feeling toward certain situations/persons are is indicative of childhood issues that need to be tended to especially when one is now an adult. I was similar in the cutting people off either completely or to some degree however the slightest cut by another’s behaviour made me too exhausted (it really does take energy being overly protective/guarded/fighting for dear life…) so I changed and things are genuinely relaxed now for me. Phew I say.
Keep working at it for sure on some of the things working against you as one can actually beat the odds and live more freely and content. It’s worked for me albeit nearly two years of processing, and definitely worth the (ongoing) journey this will be for you too.
THIS DESCRIBES MY BOYFRIEND TO A T. HE IS A NARCISSIST ASS HOLE. LYING CHEATING STEALING PATHETIC PIECE OF SHIT. I WISH SOMEONE WOULD PUT HIS ASS BACK IN JAIL WHERE HE BELONGS. HE IS A MENACE TO SOCIETY. HE NEVER TELLS THE TRUTH AND WHEN I CALL HIM OUT ON HIS LIES HE THREATENS TO BREAK UP WITH ME. THIS SHIT HAS GONE ON LONG ENOUGH AND I THINK IT IS TIME THAT I TOLD THE TRUTH ABOUT HIM TO EVERY PUBLIC
OFFICIAL CONCERNED SO WE CAN ALL BE RID OF HIS PRESENCE AND HIS STEALING AND DECEIT. ITS TIME THAT HE GOT A TASTE OF HIS OWN MEDICINE.
Anonymous: So, um, why is this guy your boyfriend?
and why should someone rather than you send him packing?
Anonymous,
You need to tell this truth about your boyfriend (why are you still with him again) to yourself first and foremost then follow up with letting him go. Your ill will/description and no doubt being hurt by him is not giving you any sense of peace to include sanity which is overall not a healthy nor good way to live.
He is who he and you are who you are, mismatched so do the honourable thing by you and let go. Once you do this all the unhealthy drama will go poof in that instance.
Anonymous:
If you looked at a dating site online and a man described himself as “lying stealing cheating pathetic piece of shit” would you ask him for a meet up? Hell no! You are better than that, Sister. Throw him to the curb where he belongs.
Ahhhhh, very timely topic for me as well. I recently got a boundary busted and am going to express it to my bf tomorrow. I’ve gotten a wide range of advice from friends ranging from female friends saying cut him some slack to tell him that’s a boundary and see how he deals with it, to a male friend saying express your anger and kick his ass to the curb and don’t look back. The gist is, a group of his friends came to stay at my house for a concert this weekend. He told me a couple of times how beautiful one of his friends girlfriends is, OK fine. Then on the way to the show as he was placed sitting next to her in the car with her BF across from them, he says, oh, I get to sit next to her? Do I get to make out with her too? All within earshot of the couple and myself. I shot him a dirty look while his friends laughed it off. It’s taken me a couple days to process what happened and why I am bothered. I’ve never experienced anything like it before from a boyfriend. I understand there are over 7 billion people on the planet and that we will all have attraction to other people. I get it. I also possess highly functioning eyeballs and can observe other beings whom I deem attractive. My problem with this situation is not that he finds this woman attractive, but that there was a verbal flirting exchange involving making out with her in my presence. And yes, aside from a dirty look, I suppressed it, I guess I went radio silent for the rest of the weekend. I had to spend time with his friends the rest of the weekend. Now that they’re gone (including my BF) and I’ve had some time to think about things. I’m ranging from defcon 5 pissed to a somewhat lower level of considering how to have civility with this conversation. Bottom line, I feel disrespected and he needs to know that. Any thoughts on the best way to express that would be greatly appreciated.
That was shitty, what he did in front of you. I can totally understand why you feel as you do and why you went quiet. Sometimes you need that space to process what happened and how you feel about it.
I have the feeling that if you were comfortable in this relationship, you might not feel so conflicted about how you’re going to address this. Am I way off the mark here?
How do you see the outcome of your addressing the issue with him? Do you think he will listen to you and apologise or do you see it blowing up?
I think if you ponder those ideas for a bit, it might help you figure out what to say and whether it’s worthwhile saying it.
I’m sorry I haven’t really answered your question yet.
m- you’re right, I don’t feel very comfortable in this relationship. It’s a long distance thing and it’s been a year. Sometimes I feel like I’m in a relationship with a ghost.
How do I see the outcome? Well, in the past when I’ve mentioned things that have bothered me, he has said he was sorry. I’m tired of hearing I’m sorry, those are meaningless words to me.
Bottom line, I think I need to have a bigger conversation with myself. Do I really want to be in a relationship with someone who behaves like this?
Sally,
Lost distance relationships are not real. You do not have a relationship in the truest sense of the word.
There is another website with great articles about LDR’s.
http://blog.havetherelationshipyouwant.com/
The fact that you stuffed down your feelings is also one reason you find yourself in a “relationship” like this. When we women are not true to ourselves, then men are not true to us.
What this guy did was hurtful and he is not good for you.
I would venture to say he isn not good for any woman.
And he knows that what he said is hurtful and disrespectful.
Men like this get into LDR and other non intimate relationships on purpose in order to keep any kind of true intimacy at bay.
Please do yourself a favor and explore why it is you want to be where you are? What are YOU getting out of this? My guess is not much, because you do not yet feel you deserve a better man. But you do. Guys like this are not worth our time, not even for a second. I hope I haven’t sounded too harsh, not my intent. But this is the honest truth. Hugs.
I’d say to him, “when you flirted with that girl it hurt my feelings.” Then see what happens. If he does it again, then he does not care about your feelings. Dump him. If he stops, then you know that he respects your feelings and the relationship is worth working on.
Sally,
I like your bottom line hence advice to self is very sound and very much doable in terms of where to from here post disclosed fantasy coital imaginings with another female by the boyfriend in your presence. Wow, if that doesn’t make one sit up and take serious going to leave note then one is in for ongoing uncomfortable ridin.
You know how the relationship has panned out over the year which has equated to lack of on his part. Currently his input sounds more casual (pattern of long distance dating) than anything else plus his friends are just as clueless beings given the laughing it off scenario. More disrespect which you politely put up with probably out of sheer shock/blindsided until now.
Not sure why the boyfriend of the one he was flirting with even herself) didn’t scold him as clearly he too was disrespecting his own girlfriend by allowing your boyfriend to make such an asswipe comment. You seem to be the only sane and reasoned one in this mix.
Feelings and being uncomfortable are true indicators of something is up in the wrong sense, take heed and what follows will help you figure out what to express and whether it is needing to be expressed (as M says).
Best of luck in your decision.
Sally,
I like your second bottom line…best to have one I’m thinking otherwise shifting the goal post will drive one nuts and not be able to come up with a bottom line decision.
Again good vibes your way re outcome.
Hello Sally,
I regret many of the times when I silenced myself. I follow this blog since 2 years and it really helped me to improve my boundaries and self-esteem. Definitely I am not the same person I was before 2 years and I am sharing my thoughts from the perspective of person with normal self-respect and self-esteem.
He is approaching a girl on front of you. Don’t silence yourself and ask your bf to explain what was the sense of his words and why he approached another woman? He must explain what the hell was that! If he avoids the conversation or give you phony excuse then you have to decide if you can relay on this guy.
By the way have you ever discuss with your bf if both of you are in exclusive relationship? Are you on the same “frequency”?
Asking question like this may set the end of your relationship, but prolonging and avoiding small conflict now won’t lead to anything good.
Good luck!
Thank you for this timely post, Nat. I really needed to read this today! I’ve been struggling with a female friend for a long time. We have been friends for years and share many close mutual friends together. However, I have become increasingly frustrated and stressed at her criticisms of me as a parent, constant interrogation about my child’s milestones, her need to compete and compare our lives, her lack of respect of my time, making me guilty about what I prioritize, and her unwillingness/laziness to reply to texts and messages. She never calls me or texts me, flakes out at the last minute whenever I’ve made concrete plans to go out for dinner, but will happily partake in free food. I know that she has had a difficult childhood and her own share of difficulties in life but I don’t think it’s acceptable for me to keep justifying her behaviour. I have confronted her before but she did not try to understand how I felt. I feel so trapped. I’m not sure if I should just remove myself from the situation or confront her again, it’s making me so unhappy because I’m not great at dealing with confrontation, and I don’t want to be angry at her.
whitelotus, “I feel so trapped. I’m not sure if I should just remove myself from the situation or confront her again, it’s making me so unhappy because I’m not great at dealing with confrontation, and I don’t want to be angry at her.”
Been their, done that. Repeat. Repeat. Very hurtful and self-defeating.
What are you getting out of this relationship? It sounds WAY out of balance and you are taking responsibility for her end as well as yours and yet not taking responsibility for having your own back.
Curious about the comment about not wanting to be angry at her. Why not? Is anger bad? Do you have a right to be angry?
Thanks for the comment, Veracity.
It is hurtful and self-defeating. It just seems like a bad cycle and hard to break out of. What did you do in your situation? Did you confront the person or leave the relationship?
I’m not getting much out of the friendship at all. I don’t know how to handle conflict and want us all to get along. I am very much a people-pleaser, though trying to change that…
I feel like anger is a bad emotion. I don’t want to be angry because she has done lovely things for me in the past, I feel like as a good friend, I should be more understanding?
i’m sure you also did many lovely things for her in the past? look at it in this way – do the benefits of this relationship (whether they’re, attention being paid, advice given, nice walks in the park on sunday) overweight the disadvantages (you always being the caller, providing the free food etc.) as to anger, why it’s bad being angry, i think it’s very good getting angry over seeing injustice, mistreatment, racism etc.
Thanks Mephista, yes I’ve done lovely things for her in the past. I thought that was what friendship was about, give and take. I love giving to my friends and doing things for my friends, seeing them happy. But I have become increasingly angry because I know it is no reciprocated — but I suppose I should have been expecting it to be?
You’re welcome, whitelotus.
Unfortunately, it wasn’t just one. I have attracted many users. I used to try in vain to change them or I would just cut them off…not very healthy approach, but the best I knew how to do at the time.
Now my approach is very similar to Mephista’s below. It depends on the situation/relationship. I also take it much slower when I develop friendships and make sure there is mutual interest/give and take.
I completely relate to all that you are saying! I would encourage you to make friends with your anger (instead of judging it as bad). Anger is an emotion/energy that is there to serve you/help you. It is a gift. It is your warning signal that you/your limits are being violated or are about to be. When you pay attention to it, it guides you/your choices.
You are not obligated to be her friend because she has done some nice things in the past (or for any other reason). Something tells me you’ve likely done way more than your share of nice things for her.
Being more understanding will often get you walked on and abused, especially when you’ve already spoken to the person about your feelings/needs. Takers look for kind, understanding people who are afraid of sticking up for their needs.
You might also consider looking your beliefs and how you acquired them and how they are informing your choices today.
Thank you for your comments, Veracity! I found your advice very helpful. I have reflected on what you suggested and believe that a lot of my beliefs about anger come from my interaction with my parents and family.
I grew up with an emotionally-distant (but financially supportive) father, and my mother was angry all the time. I got yelled at a lot for being useless, stupid and worthless. I have never been good enough or lived up to either of my parents’ expectations. My mother was very verbally abusive to the whole family and went on rage rampages often.
I never expressed who I am or how I felt to anyone, because they’d tell me who they know I am, and tell me how and what to feel. I’m an emotionally crippled adult and when I have tried to stand up for myself or tell them I disagree with something, they have tried to disown me and often distance themselves and tell me that we could never have an authentic relationship because I have chosen to believe or do things differently. I am not allowed to be angry or upset at them, and needless to say, we are not close.
My parents and I are on relatively good terms now, I just say whatever I need to placate them. However, I feel sad I will never be able to be myself around them. I think this has contributed to my inability to stand up to my “friends” when they mistreat me, my desire to find approval and just not being able to be myself around them.
Just typing that to you felt rather cathartic! Sorry for the rant.
whitelotus – First off, you have every right to feel whatever emotion you’d like toward her. You’re angry? Go ahead and be angry. Respect yourself enough to let yourself feel your emotions freely, judgement-free.
As for whether or not to confront your friend, it really depends on your relationship with her and how she responds to criticism. I’ve been where you are and I had to look at it this way: Is there anything at all that I still like about this person? Even one thing that makes me want to keep her as a friend of mine? And is my problem with her behaviour or her personality/character? Behaviour can change if they are willing to make the change, but personality/character is likely never to budge.
Do what you feel is right and best for your situation. It’s not easy either way, but you must do something or your anger towards her and yourself will only grow with inaction.
Thanks for the comment, TeaTime.
I will definitely take your perspective into consideration. She does not respond well to criticism at all. There are things I like about her but I don’t know if I can keep her as a close friend. I feel like she behaves differently with me, than she does with another close mutual friend. She will pour flattery and encouragement to our friend, but be very quick to snap at me. I just don’t understand how someone can be like that. She’s also told me in the past that she “gets people back ten times more” if they hurt her, in the way of taking revenge which I find concerning.
Thank you, I will take action!
Man, this takes me back to a former BFF. One day I finally realized – she just did not like me. At one time she did, we USED to enjoy each other, but for whatever her reasons are, she fell out of love with me and made me pay for it in every interaction.
Sometimes friends outgrow each other, or grow apart, and can’t face it.
Don’t change yourself to please her. It may be time to give up the ghost, accept that the friendship has reached an end. No big discussions. Stop contacting her. Say no to her invitations. Don’t make any invitations of your own. If you two have mutual friends, by all means still contact those others if they are friendly – she doesn’t own those friends. Refrain from discussing her with those mutual friends.
It’s sad, but it is life.
Thank you for your comment, Elgie R.
I really appreciate your advice. It has been good to hear your situation and know that these things don’t happen in isolation. I read that the average length of adult friendships is 7 years, I suppose it’s about there!
May I ask what happened in your situation with your friend? What happened to your mutual friends, and did they ‘take sides’ in the end?
I think there’s a range of behaviours that one can use in various situations, including cutting off somebody without explanations. When I started to realise that I’ve got a right to my own feelings and to express them I was several times very blunt – I’d have confronted people, tell them what I thought and felt. Looking back I think I just came across as mad and ustable because I confronted people who were incapable of understanding and taking in what I was saying (and that’s why they provoked such reaction in me).
Now I think I’d just say to some people that this wasn’t the type of relationship I wanted to be in (without many explanations and getting dragged into long and futile discussions, especially in the situations when the things had already been discussed but never improved) – strategy 1. With some people I’d explain why I’m hurt and what I’m ready to tolerate and what not – strategy 2, and if not, then I’d use strategy 1. And I think there’s a great value in just cutting off some people without confronting them, especially in situation as yours when the other person is vindictive, can’t handle criticisms and thinks they somehow own you, can say anything they want to you because they perceive you as a doormat. (strategy 3)
Now it’s up to you to decide whether to use strategy 4 whether to silently assert yourself, don’t explain to her what’s wrong and just politely limit your contact with her to the areas where you both have some benefit (Nat’s suggestion). In your case this shouldn’t be difficult because she doesn’t initiate the contact anyway. When with other friends, be polite but limit interactions with her to the minimum without explaining anything. If anybody says anything you can simply point out when was the last time she contacted you? Don’t undermine her and when appropriate, help her and ask for help, and socialise with your boundaries in place. You decide whether you want limited or no contact with her anymore.
Of course, there’re also strategies 5+ when you can tell people what bothers you, and situations when you have to make clear to everybody what is acceptable to you and you’re going to do it, and what’s not.
This is what I think about these issues now, I might be wrong.
i think that in your situation (because she’s vindictive and sees you as a doormat that can criticise and abuse at ther whim) you should silently cut her off. it shouldn’t be difficult since she doesn’t initiate contacts with you anyway. when in company with other friends be polite with her but don’t share anything
Sorry, disregard the last paragraph.
Thank you again, Mephista! I think you’re right on the money when you’re talking about strategy #4 here. I have already called her up before to ask what’s wrong. She got her partner to speak to me instead and insisted nothing was wrong. I have now limited my contact with her so I don’t hear from her unless she wants something. I’ve also decided to invest my time and energy on my family and friends, and things I enjoy doing and to be honest, I’ve been feeling so much better. Thank you for the advice and for taking the time to comment. 😀
My old BFF….?…so many stories like little paper cuts given to me over time, they sound very much like yours. Veiled insults, put downs, last-minute broken dates. And she went after the guy I was crazy for at the time. Yet I kept trying to right that friendship, because I always liked her, and together, when we would go out, I think we exuded good vibes, and we were the belles of the ball. But I tired of the putdowns, and I just stopped calling, and things died out. I ran into her a decade later, and I was excited about starting up a friendship again. At that time I had just started with a therapist, I told former BFF about it, and next thing you know, former BFF is going to my therapist, and regaling me with stories about how well she and my therapist were relating. I noticed BFF copying my fashion sense but never giving me a direct compliment while at the same time daring me to think she is copying me…it was just a lot of subtle non-acknowledgements and dismissal of my thoughts. A lot like my mother, but that’s not what you asked about.
Anyway, I opted out of trying to rebuild the BFF thing with her, stopped initiating, and again, things died out. I also stopped seeing that therapist, but that’s not unusual for me. I have started and stopped therapy after one or two visits, four separate times in my life, with four separate therapists. BR has been the best therapy I’ve ever had. It’s changing my life for the better.
There were no “mutual” friends. I’ve never been part of a group of friends, ala Sex-And-The-City. My BFFs have always been one-to-one. I felt so rich in my twenties when I had TWO BFFs. I was the happiest girl in the world. Then, over the years, both of them went after guys I was dating. So…things change.
Wow, Elgie. Your old BFF sounds so intense! I really can’t stand people competing and comparing. It upsets me so much and takes the joy out of the friendship. We should be celebrating our successes and supporting each other when times are rough, not actively trying to hurt the people closest to us. I will never understand why people do this.
I’m sorry also to hear about both your old BFFs went after the guys you were dating at the time. That’s a given no-no! I had an experience with a close friend who liked a guy, but that guy liked me. I knew that she liked him and when he approached me, I turned him down and tried to avoid him. He was pretty mad about that. I did tell her that he contacted me and asked me out. She told me she appreciated what I did, but even then, our friendship faded out.
Hi Whitelotus,
I had to end a friendship when I realised that my BFF had hated every other friendship/boyfriend since I’d known her. That was the start. She tried to tell me that I was unhappy with my husband and she was supportive and non-judgemental. It was two-faced lying.
Once I realised, there was about 6 weeks of travelling for both of us and I ignored her attempts, I said that I was going through some stuff and had to take some time to figure myself out. Her response? SHE needed to get some stuff off her chest and it was all in my head… what I said, when she did ask and did deserve an explaination, was that unwanted critisicm hurts and undermines relationships. That I wasn’t ready to talk.
I could have argued and laid it all out, but it was a matter of character over personality, and she wasn’t trustworthy. I loved her, she had issues too, but without her, wow life is good!
Hi NicW, thanks for sharing your experience with me. Your ex BFF sounds possessive and manipulative. 🙁 It’s almost funny when people try to tell you how you feel about something or someone… not. I can’t handle the two-faced lying — when people are one way in front of someone, and then another way behind their backs, I often wonder what they are saying about me!
Trust is integral on the building of any kind of relationship, and if you don’t have that, then you don’t really have anything. I think you brought to light an important point for me. Trust is everything.
My dad told me a very relevant proverb that goes something like, “it is easier to change the face of a mountain than it is to change someone’s character”. Thanks again for sharing!
Wow, I totally needed this today.
I literally just ordered a book yesterday about Boundararies by Henry Cloud which I cannot wait to read!
When I broke up with the abusive ex, I also ‘broke up’ with a friend that had been in my life for many years as it quite suddenly dawned on me that there were people in my life pushing my boundaries quite substianlly.
I think I have always had boundaries but I have also had a lot of boundary pushers. I have responded by increasing my boundaries and yesterday I had an emphinany – I realised that I could not control how other people behaved but I could control my experience of other people with the use of boudnaries.
So my question is, how do I know when it is time to try and have another coversation with someone about their behaviour or literally just adjust my behaviour?
I have a friend now who seems to enjoy pushing her agenda with the result of offence being caused. I have spoken to her about this on a number of occassions and now I feel it is time to just adjust my bevahiour and limit the amount of time I spend with her. Does this sound ok or am I being too hard?
I also am laying down the boundaries with a man and it feels good although terrifying that I wont know the end result.
But all of this really does feel empowering. No matter how far I think I have come there is always space for further growth!
Bxx
Boo, The boundaries book I read by Henry Cloud was life changing for me. I’m so excited for you! It sounds like you are well on your way.
I’ve been practicing like crazy. What I have discovered is that healthy people respect my boundary setting. They may not like my boundary/limit, but they won’t try to mow it down, they accept it.
I’ve also discovered the takers in my life hate my boundaries. They try to mow them down. They ignore them. They punish me for them. They try to make me feel guilty for them. They know my vulnerabilities (florence, people pleaser, guilty when I don’t put others first) and they take advantage of them.
What I do now is state my boundary/limit once. Then I adjust my behavior. For me, changing my behavior has shown me the most immediate result. Because it usually involves a consequence for the person. Boundary pushers tend to respond only to consistent consequences. They might continue to test, but if you hold firm, they eventually get it.
Trust your gut. Is she really a friend if she continually pushes her agenda at your expense? You’ve told her how you feel and she hasn’t respected that (you). At a minimum I would pull back and adjust my behavior. Although these days I would eject. She’s shown you who she is.
It is amazingly empowering and liberating! Congrats on your progress!
Wow, wow, and wow, Veracity! You may have read on earlier posts about my “love triangle” with the (abusive) man I am divorcing, my “online guy” and “real guy”…well, yesterday I just broke up with the “real guy” (this is apparently my year of learning how to break up with people). While the (premature) relationship had got off to a quite promising start, he unfolded in ways I was increasingly uncomfortable with to the point where I realised that I was in a “driver-passenger” thing and decided to get out of the car. Anyway, I read your reply to Boo a few hours ago, particularly noting your observation that “I’ve also discovered the takers in my life hate my boundaries. They try to mow them down. They ignore them. They punish me for them. They try to make me feel guilty for them. They know my vulnerabilities (florence, people pleaser, guilty when I don’t put others first) and they take advantage of them.”
Well, “real guy’s” initial response that he sent yesterday evening to my breakup message was much gentler than what I was anticipating, but an hour or so ago he just sent another missive with some live ammo in it. I recalled your post cited above and got the “ZING!!!! — that’s EXACTLY what is happening!!!” recognition. I take that as further confirmation that I made the correct decision in letting him go. Meanwhile the ex has been trying his level best to subvert the boundaries and limits I put in place and weasel his way back into my house and my life. No dice! I may end up having to cut him out of my life altogether.
That’s awesome, Brenda K!! Isn’t amazing when things click like that and you know you’re on the right path?! It’s so much easier and you end up with more free time and energy because you are no longer wasting it on people who don’t value you!
My ex tried to weasel back in many, many times. I finally told him what I thought of him and to never contact me again. I think he was shocked – he has never called since! 🙂 He was a smelly anchor around my neck.
When they keep pushing like that NC seems to be the only way.
Good luck!
Hi Boo,
What Veracity said. 🙂
You’re right on the mark with limiting the time you spend with that person. You have already addressed the issue that you are uncomfortable with, but she carried right on as if it didn’t matter — that is apparently her “thing” — so you are entirely right in limiting your interaction with her. A few years ago it occurred to me that my life was so full of toxic people monopolizing all of my “discretionary” time that I had no time left to spend with people I actually enjoyed and benefitted from! I have been ridding my life of toxic people ever since.
Wow! This couldn’t have been better timed. I just returned from a visit ‘home,’ where my mother is in the process of dying. My two older sisters live nearby, and the hostility that one felt for the other was incredible. I, too, am in the process of enforcing boundaries, and so, it was a difficult time. But your words are a huge help. Thank you!
I’m sorry about your mother, Nancy. It’s such a painful, difficult time that often brings out all sorts of emotions in everyone around. Sounds like you are taking good care of you.
Soooo timely. Just had a meeting with colleagues go very bad when the subject of how race etc affects student experience. Related an incident when I was a 16 year old student in an all White setting. Totally ignored/dismissed. The White male profs then discussed anti White racism and accused us women of being racist. Ugly. Included in this group was the AC who’d just married Latest Conquest so I also got to hear all about the happy couple (been reading a lot lately of why serial cheaters marry). After I walked away from AC, years ago, he did state that he felt that the only reason I got my job was because of Affirmative Action. Id put him firmly in his place stating that maybe the extensive experience coupled with degrees in three sciences may’ve been a bigger factor and that the hiring committee had no idea I was multiracial until they saw me on campus as a finalist. A good time was had by all. At lunch, the boyz continued their “discussion” so I removed myself from the group, sat alone. Is this just running away or perhaps disengagement? Dunno but I refuse to be dismissed as a person, refuse to subject myself to false accusations. Will no longer dine with or engage the dudes unless absolutely necessary.
Hi Noquay,
No, you are not “running away”. What’s the point of engaging when you’re in an unwinnable situation? They obviously couldn’t care less about your particularly relevant viewpoint given the subject at hand (and how dare you challenge their white privileged ivory tower worldview anyway?), as they are having much more fun ganging up on you and throwing sh!t at you like gorillas in a zoo exhibit. In cases like that I always remember the following sage advice: “Don’t wrestle with pigs. You just get dirty and the pigs enjoy it.” Sorry you have to put up with that. 🙁
A parallel to this saying is “Don’t try to teach pigs to sing. It wastes your time, and irritates the pig.”
Noquay your married ex is effectively toxic for you – it wouldn’t matter if he danced to your merry tune or not – whether you are right or not – each contact reopens or salts the wound – even if he was the most brilliant scholar in the universe – he is toxic to you – ie would you go back to a toxic plant and eat it, once having being poisoned by it and lived through the horror once already?
?
Then don’t go back to him or any associated ‘hims’ either because they will be guaranteed to let you down whether you are in the right or not. They are not for you. Go contact some people who do get what you are saying and have also lived through it for your own validation needs – in other universities/disciplines if necessary. This isn’t the only source of human contact you have no matter how much you persuade yourself that it is. You have to actively go and get it.
As for the toxics – strictly business only.
Only you can know if this is a productive withdrawl or running away from something that will make you a better human being – Natalie is talking I believe about us running away from things that will strengthen and make us better people not diminish and humiliate us further – is it going to make you a better person having more contact with someone who has monumentally hurt you?
Ask yourself what is this experience telling you?
IE are you feeling isolated in your views/without a voice that’s listened and respected? So start finding others who you can connect with on this subject who will and do respect you. Not use it as an excuse to put yourself through more horrible experiences desperately trying to come out on top – one day…. do actions for yourself today.
Oona
I have zero intention of going back to AC or any of this group of colleagues. I am disconnecting to the point that it will probably be construed as unprofessional and at this point, I do not care. This means boycotting meetings I myself used to run, spending lunchtime alone, not participating in many college activities. Forgetting about seeking promotion as AC is on the committee thst decides that. Not just setting up boundaries but an electric fence topped with barbed wire. Yep, I truly wish there was an older, educated, progressive community of folk anywhere near here but as of tomorrow, when the last of my fellow athletes leave, the door slams shut for nine long months. The nearest other university is about 100 miles away. My teaching schedule will effectively prevent being able to travel anywhere til spring. Am taking over part of a colleagues load along with mine due to her illness. This is another step in systematically removing myself from further hurt/disrespect, paying off unsecured debt, fixing up mi casa to increase its sale value, expanding my farming/woodworking skills as part of a “get out without winding up poor and alone for good” plan. Unfortunately, the job market does not want aging, senior level academics these days.I am not trying to come up “on top”; I am trying to ensure, that, a few years down the road, I will once again have the sort of life and relationships I want. My voice will never heard nor respected by these folk. Not only do they not give a tinkers damn about the experiences of a colleague of color, sadly they appear not to care about a good share of our community/campus population either. My action for myself after this latest nonsense is to cut them off regardless of professional consequences. Now perhaps you can see why I do crazy stuff like communicate with/invite guys here from halfway across the continent; I want, for a short time anyway, to be with someone who respects, even honors, who I am.
Of all issues raised on this site, the one thing that gets me raging mad is how come colour is still an issue in US and Canada?! All the AC-stories are trifles compared to the fact that you, lovely Noquay, still have to put up with being disadvantaged on account of skin colour!
Noquay,
I like the plan you have to take care of yourself under some difficult circumstances. Your story has reinforced a ground rule I have related to work relationships.- I WILL NEVER date anyone remotely connected with any work I do. I cannot even imagine having to endure dealing with a workplace full of people like that. I really cringe about you having to see AC daily. You have made the best call to remove yourself from his sight. I wish for you that AC would move away or go to another department. How did your date go with the man that was going to come into town to visit you?
During the school year try to do something fun on the weekend or plan a great spring break get away. I just think you have a tough situation to deal with at work, but you need to have some joy in your life. I understand why you took on the extra workload. You have worked hard and to be placed in a situation where you are being devalued is awful. But I strongly believe I would put up the same boundaries with an electric fence topped with barbed wire. In fact, I have one of those around me right now. I have to be careful about who I allow in my life next time.
I really wish I could send you a mate who shares your values and interests. Someone who would also be loyal and respectful. Your work environment sounds like it will be tense and stressful. Please do something good for yourself daily. Find ways to enjoy yourself during this nine months. I don’t want you to feel like you are in prison while in isolation from what sounds like some disrespectful co-workers. I wish you the best school year under the circumstances. Anytime you can get away try to do that. You have a solid plan to handle some things that will improve your life circumstances over nine months. I hope your hard work pays off and that someone special is in your life one day. Big hug.
MJ
Thanks MJ
Right now getting away won’t happen due to needing to pay off the aforementioned dad bills and save up, didn’t even renew the reg on my car and used the money to pay off an outstanding dad bill. A load offa my lil mind. I “escape” in other ways; trying to keep up running/cycling mileage every day, training for a marathon, working my farm, skipping work meetings, going to the one non-bar place in town, seeking outside folk to socialize with. Have phone convos with the dude that’s flying in a few times a week; if nothing more, we are dear friends. Good, meaningful convo is the staff of life for me. Date, if you want to call it that, went so-so; wondering if this dude is just looking for an activity buddy while in town. Not investing anything emotionally at this point. You’re right about the at-work involvement; my mistake made of loneliness/frustration after finding the region has no age approriate, compatible men, something every woman here of any substance faces. My screw-up. This is why so many do long distance; however, most of us are honest about it. Ironically, AC applied for and was turned down for a job elsewhere. Karma coming home to roost or maybe karma against me or just another older senior level academic nobody wants. Woulda been sooo good to have him gone but understand the rest of that group will still be there. I really had little choice in taking on a higher workload; the alternative woulda been dropping thetwo courses I actually want to teach and I fought hard to keep them. Sadly, the environment has been a place of much stress for me for the past four years and it’s getting worse due to shifting priorities within the institution, the perception by some of us that academic standards are slipping, and declining enrollments. The push to aggressively pursue minority/first generation students is ignoring that our program areas are ones that minorities want nothing to do with, that first generation/minority students have different life situations than others, female students/staff/faculty face challenges here not experienced by men, and that local young folk want to leave upon hs graduation. This is what I was trying to convey and felt every obligation to convey as a minority/only generation educated/self supporting student who was also a due facto parent. They didn’t wanna hear it. Screw em; heading out (on foot) to get some more barbed wire.
Noquay,
I just referenced your ‘plan’ in a post to Mary Jane and now I see she has commented here. I have a similar plan in mind that involves fixing and improving my house, paying off as much debt as possible, and being ‘ready’ for a job/career change and possible move 2-3 years from now. I don’t have the blatant disrespect at work like you mention, and I’m not AS isolated as you, but I feel significantly limited- I can LIVE but not THRIVE (emotionally, financially, socially, romantically, geographically, and career-wise). I too have hope for that “better” life; the one I WANT to be living. I also know that FOR ME, finding the right partner is what I value the MOST on this list. But it’s also the one thing I can’t do anything about. May your plan be exactly what you need right now. Did you ever fly that guy in?
Cat
I understand. The whole point of working toward getting away is to also be in a place where there are options other than totally alone or being disrespected. I also feel: one, I deserve to be with someone who respects me; two, not gonna happen here barring a miracle, three, a real fear is when I leave, I will be 60 and it’ll take a good coupla years to get the new farm going, get my woodshop going, make new contacts. That’ll make me 62. It well be too late then or I may find myself in the same boat as here because by then I may no longer considered attractive. There may be nothing to wait for. I have been patient for 12 friggin years (my attitude has indeed gone to crap) since the breakup of my marriage. Took time to heal, fight cancer, relocated to offload a doomed job in a place I could not afford to be. Long damned time to be alone, trying to get “out there”. True, I should be saving every penny which means again, no socialization, no races (one of the things keeping me sane and vital), no dating, no doing anything for Noquay. I don’t do much “women” stuff; no manicures/spas/hairdressers/shopping/clubbing with the girls. I am tired of feeling punished for my dads debts, for stepping up and being a lone caretaker for the last of family, for going thru cancer, paying off the medical stuff, for trying to insure I don’t end up poor and in the gutter. I live extremely frugally, especially given my socioeconomic level. No TV, no driving at present, no plug in kitchen anything, no produce from the grocery, no internet; I dont even use fossil fuels to heat my home, I cut firewood. I understand I may be taking a chance on someone that could end in utter failure plus the waste of a couple hundred dollars; I could also be taking a chance on someone who may well be OK with relocating to “real home”, being a willing part of my new life. Life is risk. At the very least, on my upcoming celebration of attainment of elderhood, I will have a date. MJ said “do something for me”; that’s exactly what I am doing.
Whoops, commented in the wrong place. I am not flying him in; he’s flying himself in then driving two hrs to here. I am putting him up at a friends hostel, much cheaper than local b and b’s yet safe in case things go south.
Noquay,
I think your decision to low contact these idiots is honoring and respecting you. Keep honoring and respecting YOU. Do it for yourself; why wait for some stranger from down yonder to do it? Why waste money on his room and board when you could use that money toward your long term goals? Patience really is a virtue.
“Patience is not the ability to wait, but the ability to keep a good attitude while waiting.” ~~Joyce Meyer
(I’m not saying you should not date, etc. I’m saying keep your priorities straight, especially when vulnerable.)
I have a tendency of second guessing my boundaries which leads me to not speak up/confront & I do disappear. I recently had this happen on a date. It’s a really long story but the meat & potatoes is: I was pursued by a long time friend, was led to believe that he was divorced for 8+ months only to find out 1/2 hour into the date that he was NOT divorced & had no intention of doing so any time soon. If I had stayed true to my boundaries & values, I would have asked him to turn the car around immediately but I second guessed myself.
The date was cut short eventually, by myself, (I asked him to take me home much earlier than planned) but only after he informed me of all of the women he was sleeping with, that his “pretend divorce” was NOT mutual like I was told originally & the best part……. after his wife joined us on the date at a festival!!
I wanted to know what the point of pursuing me was. I wanted to express to him how foolish, embarrassed & uncomfortable I felt. Instead I disappeared. I deleted & blocked him from social media & phone contact. I guess I didn’t want the confrontation. I feel completely disrespected but I question myself about how emotional I should be after only one date & if maybe I was expecting too much. But on the other hand I think it’s never too much or too soon to expect honesty, true intentions & respect, Ever! I’m so angry about being led on by someone who I always thought was such a nice guy. And I’m also angry with myself for not speaking up. I’m happy I cut the date short, in the past I think I would have just went along no matter how miserable & uncomfortable I was. At least I’m getting better. But I definitely need to work on not second guessing what I deserve & the confidence to voice my thoughts without worrying about coming across as too emotional.
River
That’s horrible! I wish I knew why but this sort of thing apparently is rampant. What, pray tell, do they intend to accomplish here? Why does the fact that they are wasting another’s time and emotional energy, causing great hurt with this type of shenanigans never cross their little minds? Had a number of these to the point I was wondering if there is something massively wrong with me that attracts attached guys. Nope, some of them do this all the time. This spring/summer, a local students dad would chat me up when he saw me, even asked me out. Turns out he is married; found out by seeing her while on a training run. Now the dude intentionally heads away in the other direction and is angry with me as though it is all MY fault?! Given we live in the same community my finding out was a given. Hotrunnerdude of two years ago asked me to run the 10K race in our series and I didn’t know until we finished that the woman running alongside us was his girlfriend! We’d been hanging out together all summer, I crewed him in one of the races, was going to stay at my house for one of them, so there was ample opportunity to disclose this. Then there is the whole AC debacle. They owe us a huge I. Am. Sorry. but it never happens. Never acted this way when I was married, my husband was mentioned ASAP. This week, I am meeting an out of town aquaintance for coffee. Lives outta town, met through a professional function, passes thru this town on his way to/from meetings, fellow athlete. Could be a textbook case of a married/attached looking for attention so my Spidey senses will be on high alert. Yep, true honesty and respect for another is a given.
Noquay and river…. Say it ain’t so.my only guess is that there are so many women out here desperate to belong to just any man. and then there are also the women within these marriages / relationships that are doing what they can to hang on as well.they know their men are stepping out on him and they may put up a fuss but ultimately they don’t do anything about it. Sad.I think you so gotten so bad to the point that there are guys that are just sitting here trying to see how low can women go period and a lot of us can go pretty low smh.
River, I understand what you mean.. I also have the tendency of second guessing and not speaking up, and then disappearing. I understand the anger of not speaking up and when you disappear you feel that you haven’t done yourself justice for defending yourself. I’ve been there. I think you did good deleting him and no contact. He totally wasted your time and he shouldn’t of pursued you. I think he had bad intentions. I too worry about coming across as emotional when I think about voicing my thoughts but honestly we shouldn’t worry about that. At the end of the day, it’s how you feel, and it real, so always stick up for yourself.
I actually had a similar experience two weeks ago minus the guy not being married. I’ve known him for about two years and we were always cordial with each other. We always made small talk and he finally decided to ask me out. Before we actually went out on our first date when had long phone conversations almost every other day. We vibed really well. We had a great first date and the second was a disaster. We clearly talked about what we were looking for and we decided to see where this goes. I wanted to take things slow, I wasn’t interested in anything sexual anytime soon and he’d agreed. Mainly I just wanted us to get to know each other.
On the second date he told me that he slept with a lot of women and he was ashamed to tell me the number. I encouraged him to tell me, and I was outraged. Hundreds! Then he had the nerve to show me pictures of two women he recently slept with on his vacation… & then he tells me I’m not too sure I can do the relationship thing, I may be single for the rest of my life.. It was just red flag after red flag.
Do you know I did not voice my thoughts at all? Why would he even take me on a date? What was the point? I’m so angry at myself. I disappeared after that date. No words, no nothing, and I’m mad for not sticking up for myself. What’s even worse is that we live in the same neighborhood and I have to see him from time to time…
What’s the deal with these men?
Hi, Lana. What thoughts did you want to express? Although I think what you said here is great – would’ve loved to know his reaction to “Why did you even take me on a date? What was the point?”
I actually think it is great that he flew his red flags so early. Keeps you from wasting any more of YOUR time.
Going radio silent on him is quite appropriate I think, although I get it – would’ve been satisfying to call him an a$$ and THEN walk out. He is not even a Future Faker. Future to him is the next five minutes. All he’s worth is a head nod should your paths should cross again. No more phone conversations.
Hi Elgie. Mainly what I wanted to express was questioning his intentions. I feel as though he wasted my time. 2 dates, long phone conversations where we got to know a bit about each other. Also I just wanted to stick up for myself. I felt disrespected, and uneasy when he showed me pictures of two girls he recently slept with while he was on vacation. I mean what was the point of showing me? Did he want a pat on the back? Lol
It is great that he flew his red flags so early. He said a lot of things that night that had me in disbelief. Yes your right, the future to him is the next five minutes. So done. We have crossed paths twice since that disaster date and those times were so awkward. I say hello and keep it moving.
Don’t be mad at yourself, I think you did great. Telling these morons all about themselves won’t change anything as they still think they’re gods gift and have every right to treat people as they please and to their own ends. If you did speak up he’d probably have turned it on you ‘you’re too sensitive’, ‘you’re so uptight’ ‘have more fun’- trust me, I’ve had it happen to me and it makes me madder. I used to speak up but now I find it far more satisfying to keep quiet and be pleased with myself for not reacting and allowing these clowns to bring out the worst in me. As Natalie says, we keep getting sent the same thing til we learn the lesson is learned. I personally think disappearing will really annoy them too as they are clearly attention seekers, so it’s win win 🙂
Lana I totally get you feeling as though you didn’t defend yourself in some sort of way. But honestly, what would have been the proper response to something like that? Were you supposed to say ‘oh that’s nice or oh you’re a naughty naughty boy?’ I think the guy was just putting blunt feelers out there / essentially telling you what you’re in for up front. And if you would have continued to see him, then you would have given him your silent consent. in there for covering his rump in the future because if you were to ever complain about his behavior in the future then he can that you already knew this about him. some years ago I had a guy tell me on our first date that he was crazy and I kept seeing the guy for almost 3 months after that. then when all fell down like it was destin too, I told him that he was crazy. But whats is dead make, because you told me doing a first date is crazy. I do remember killing myself before I met that guy that the next guy I met I was going to ‘make it work’. Bless my heart lol! and why he took you out and had those long phone conversations with you it’s because it’s about him and what he wants not you. I’m sure that he is one of those guys that on some level feel that women are here strictly to service men. so if he wants to find a woman to service,/entertain him for one year 1 month 1 week 1 day or 1 hour didn’t he feels he should have that. you dodged a huge bullet on this one miss mam trust me. A guy like that lack self control impulse control and I’m sure he is one of those guys that he thinks who he is is a man is to be found between a woman’s thighs. they like the chase. and the chase is not about the woman, but about the high/entertainment it provides him. They like the game of it. External stimulus seeking. the world is his video game / board game and women in particular are his video game characters / game board pieces. That’s why he was able to nonchalantly show you pictures love to other women he slept with while he was on a date with you. Because you are all are for his
entertainment.It’s like since these guys weren’t talented enough to play professional sports they have to settle for playing with women.These types don’t really like women they like to use women .and I’m sure he is a addictive personality as well.and that is a between him and him issue. Don’t try to play therapist, don’t try to figure out what happened in his childhood, or what type of mother his mother was. Ruuuuun!
typo. I meant to say what sense did it make for me to say he was crazy when he told me during our first date that was crazy.
Hi Yoyo. Thanks. Your right. Telling him all about hisself wouldn’t of changed anything. ” I personally think disappearing will really annoy them too as they are clearly attention seekers, so it’s win win.” Lol, I’m sure it does annoy them, and thats satisfying. I’m glad I dodged a bullet and he showed who he was early on. I’m so tired of giving away my power to men, & the heartbreak and what not. I’m glad that flushing him quick was a way of sticking up for myself, something I’m learning to do, and I see this as improvement.
Thank u for your comment.
Hi ljsrmissy. Your absolutely right, he was just telling me what I was in for up front. I definitely think he is one of those guys who “thinks he’s a man” because he can be found between many women’s legs, like you said. I was just entertainment and I’m sure he had a bet with himself to see how long it takes to woo me. It’s funny that you said don’t try to play therapist with him. Because in a few of our conversations I definitely felt like one. It was diarrhea out of his mouth when it came to talking about why he’s single and past relationships. There’s so much more that he did that night that were red flags, it’s crazy.
But hunny I ran, more like sprinted, no more communicating with him.
Thank u for ur comment 🙂
Wow River, you really dodged a grenade there! He sure treated you to a spectacular display of his true colours all at once after all that time of playing “Mr. Nice Guy”, didn’t he? I totally hear you about being angry with yourself for not speaking up right then, as I am not good with being put on the spot either, and also have the lifelong habit of just sitting there fuming silently and going along for the miserably uncomfortable ride, but no más. I’m not sure there would have been any real point in making a big drama of it. You should just congratulate yourself for cutting it short and cutting that despicable specimen out of your life!
@noquay Effing hell, that is brutal. I don’t have a lot to give you right now on the subject of only-brown-woman-in-room-full-of-white-male-academics-who-get-defensive-when-called-on-to-acknowledge-their-exclusionism, other than I feel you, I feel you.
I *think* that Natalie is writing about the difference between cutting people off or giving the silent treatment as a way to avoid working through stuff or stating one’s feelings and cutting people off as in going no contact. It’s a good conversation to have because it’s always a judgment call to know when to a) bring something up b) keep talking c) realize talking isn’t working/isn’t appropriate and to back off.
I told myself that after my ‘friend’ penetrated me without my consent that I didn’t owe him a word of explanation, that I could just stop talking to him completely. I had not communicated my sense of being violated in the moment, and he thought things were all good. So I was trying to decide whether to just stop answering his calls or to explain to him, before taking a step back, what was going on with me. I wondered whether I would be acting with *more* weakness and less self-esteem by communicating with him at all. Honestly I wasn’t sure what was the more BR thing to do.
I weighed the relationship: I’ve known this guy for years, I loved a lot about him, he’s been so helpful, and just hours before we had been talking about this being a step into a new kind of relationship between us. So I communicated; I returned a call and said what was on my mind, and the other day I wrote out an email that spelled out my feelings more clearly. It made me feel vulnerable to even be talking to him and acting like he might hear me and listen. But after all that had passed between us, and because I knew that I was clear about how I had experienced things, I figured I could be human and share information.
Had I used radio silence, I would not have gotten to experience his reactions to me describing my feelings or to my calling out his disrespect. His responses have only become new examples of him hearing what he wants to hear (he wants to know: am I being accused? am I being praised?) and not listening (he doesn’t understand I’m trying to tell him the consequences of his actions for me).
I would have been “within my rights” to use radio silence, but not doing so has forced me to hear accusations of blowing things out of proportion, of questioning my perceptions, and of not listening when I’m told I’m loved, mixed in with potentially valid statements like “You’re not listening to me,” “you like to find fault with me,” and “You know I didn’t mean to hurt you and I am so sorry.”
I guess I’ve gone through a phase of “If I even listen to anything you have to say, I’m caving to you, so I’m cutting you off.” But this stage I think was one I went through after listening to far too much BS. Now I feel stronger and think I can hear someone’s side of things and can breathe and sort through which points I think are fair and what is manipulative or bullshit (from my POV, of course).
I just, sadly, blocked my friend on FB last night and got an angry email from him over it that takes a completely different tone (I posted in the other thread). I think I have done a decent amount of staying open and vulnerable and communicative in this situation and now can go no-contact knowing that I’m not just ghosting someone.
Mags
You make good points here. Let them show you who they are when they are called to account rather than evaporating right away. no questioning your actions then. I do tend to be more open, trusting and vulnerable at first, try and “make the peace”, especially in a professional setting, but this was the last straw. There have been other incidents similar to this that did involve actual name calling so I kinda feel pretty justified to just cut them off (as did you)even though they’re colleagues.
@noquay I didn’t mean any of the stuff after my first paragraph to be directed toward your situation, just fyi, I think you handled it in the way the situation called for. But if any of my recent story is applicable to you, that’s cool too. Sending you good vibes as always xo
You have done the right thing, Magnolia, and walked away with dignity and grace after a terrible incident.
Keep your head high.
“Sometimes, it’s not so much that the relationship is abusive but it’s become exhausting, you’ve reached an impasse and there just isn’t a great deal left to say or do that hasn’t already been covered.”
Yup, that’s me right now! After 6 weeks in a very stressful, doomed love affair with a man who seemingly enjoys making me miserable, I have reached the ‘f*ck this, I’m done’ phase of this journey. I saw the red flags… He was always late, never showed up on a couple of occasions, would order me around like I was his long-suffering wife, always accused me of sleeping with other men (including his friends), ridiculously jealous (thinks I’m cheating when I’m at the gym), always in a mood or sulk for no apparent reason… The list of misdemeanors goes on.
Why did I stick it out for this long?
In all honesty, part of me was grateful for the distraction at first… I found out my soldier-ex was married with 2 kids a couple months ago(a fact he conveniently hid from me), and was feeling a bit sorry for myself about another failed relationship.
My friends and family all accuse me of being too quick to flush guys, so on this occasion, I thought I’d try and go with the flow – give him a chance to unfold seeing as he was adamant that he wanted to be with me from the start (I should’ve ran from then). He had some good qualities and we had fun together and stuff, but the bad times started to outweigh the good, the arguments became daily occurrences and I started to question exactly what am I getting out of this situation? Why am I putting up with sub-standard treatment? Why am I always apologising to him, yet he never apologises for speaking badly to me or upsetting my feelings? If things are this bad after a month, then it doesn’t exactly bode well for the future.
It’s gotten to the point where I’ve realised he will never be capable of listening to me or taking my feelings into consideration. I’m wasting my time trying to reason with him because he will always find a way to twist an argument so it looks like I’m in the wrong. As Nat rightly said, “…it’s become exhausting…”. I just don’t want to be around him anymore. I’m mentally drained and the added stress of constantly arguing with him is making my lupus flare up.
A part of me is angry at myself because I know better. Another part of me is sad that I have to console myself over yet another failed attempt. The rest of me feels a mixture of relief and anxiety. Relieved that I don’t have to deal with his BS anymore, and anxious because I’m 31 and would like to start a family before it’s too late… I just never imagined meeting someone nice would be so hard.
I guess it’s time to embrace being on my own again… Don’t think I can take anymore disappointment.
This post is so timely… The past couple of days have brought back feelings about what transpired in my recent pseudo-relationship (which I mentioned some two posts ago).
I’m not confrontational by nature, easily irritated by little things but not quick to anger, and I tend to observe first and process my feelings and evidences before I speak up lest I say something I may end up regretting (I’ve been told I’m too blunt).
Early in our dating, the “ex” told me he: 1) likes girls who sass him, and 2) to let him know if ever he does anything I find offensive. Now, I can sass, and friends know me to be quite sarcastic, but I wasn’t about to sass someone I’m only getting to know and for no reason, and 2) I definitely will. Things were going ok, until I’ve begun noticing things that I felt had to be brought up. We never got to that part for reasons I’ve stated in another post.
I’ve shown my vulnerable side to him and have expressed my concerns about us prior to the fallout and he had addressed them in a way that I found acceptable and sincere at the time (though when I recall his words now, everything seems to be in relation to him/how his actions reflect on him to the point that he goes and tells me after apologizing for his crude joke that I called him out on, that he wants to know if I’m committed because he is and he doesn’t want me just half-heartedly in it) so maybe it wasn’t too much to expect that he’d show up when he’s supposed to, to follow his words through with his actions and show that he actually really cared about my happiness as he claims (because he’s a simple man with simple needs and he’s more concerned about my happiness, he says).
When he texted me at work to tell me there was someone else over the weekend (same night he made those grand proclamations above – he also proclaimed way before that that he’s a one-woman kind of guy, thinks juggling women is disrespectful, and that he really wants me), I felt like ice cold water was dumped over my head. Cold fury. I asked that he call so we can at talk instead of text, but instead made me wait for hours because he “can’t atm”. He knew where I lived and waited to see if he’d come by (we had a plan to go out that day), but no show. I ring him up, but he never picked up and only texted hours after, asking to call, well into the evening without any apology other than it was a long night. I refuse to give him the satisfaction of taking that call and I feel – know – in my heart and my gut that it’s justified. He can’t just go around doing things at his own convenience and say he doesn’t like drama when when he wants to be in a relationship. He never tried reaching out after that by any means, and I know I was right to have walked away. And yet I feel as if I was a coward for just up and slamming the door shut. Like I’m the one who can’t hold her end of the bargain by keeping communication lines open.
I would check myself whenever I start doubting my decision, ask if hearing him out would have changed anything. If saying something, if telling him how utterly disrespected I felt would have changed anything. 99% of the time the answer is “nothing”, but there’s that small percentage that I can’t help but wonder about every now and then and it sucks.
I dated someone like this. As soon as any form of criticism, my opinion or different view point came to the fore they would shut down the whole conversation. They didn’t want to hear or listen or took it as me getting upset or being angry or having an attitude. It was exhausting.
In the end I got that point, where after being with them for a weekend and they did this whole ‘shut down the convo’ lark twice in a few hours. I just stopped speaking for the whole day and spoke to my sister on the phone with no problem.
They proceeded to tell me that I wasn’t very nice and it’s not the right way to behave. In which I had to point out that there’s no point talking or having a discussion with someone who ends the conversation because they don’t want to hear what someone else has to say. So I might as well speak to someone who wants to speak to me instead of wasting my time and my breath. To be honest a minor situation becomes bigger than what it needs to be.
So they can stay there with that childish nonsense. I have very little patience. It’s almost like no one is suppose to criticise, speak negatively or disagree… I must just say yes and yes and take someone’s words as gospel. No thanks.
I especially appreciate this post, as it clearly spells out what “vulnerability” is. While it is referenced in numerous BR articles and explained in various ways in terms of one’s emotional (un)availability, I haven’t until now been able to connect the dots as to what it actually means. This. Right here:
“… conflict and criticism (C-situations), whether it’s the actuality of it or just the potential for it, does bring up vulnerability and if we are not comfortable with expressing our truth as we know it at that time, or stepping up for ourselves, hearing their side or dealing with any potential fallout, we may feel inclined to ‘go dark’ so that we remain safe. Our comfort zone can become not honouring our boundaries and not learning how to navigate conflict and criticism because at least we don’t allow anybody to get close enough to us that we might not be able to deal with what we regard as the bigger pain of disappointment. We use associations with past experiences to inform us and then end up wondering why we’re simmering in resentment or feeling isolated even if technically, there are people around us. “
And this is the point I am at now:
“… when I embarked on having boundaries, I was terrified of the vulnerability that came with not only getting honest with me about my own needs, feelings, expectations, desires, opinions and beliefs and how I was going to go about honouring these, but that also came with having to express them with others. “
One more thing this article clarifies is that maddening “why” of when someone “ghosts” us, i.e., just suddenly and inexplicably vanishes.
Interestingly, this post landed just as I was breaking up with a man I prematurely started dating (mid-January 2015) immediately upon exiting a very abusive, destructive marriage of 17 years (for those familiar with this story, this is “real guy”). I am SO grateful from all I have been learning from BR over the past 1.5 years or so, because this time I saw it coming and saved myself (well, it took some urging from a couple people close to me) before I allowed myself to be taken even deeper into what I now recognize as a minefield, and could get out of it with dignity, grace and appreciation for a valuable lesson learned, and quite possibly even salvage the underlying friendship, instead of just more pain, anger and lost years of my life. The big “tell” was the way he reacted to my expressing a need and erecting a boundary around it. Wow….
Well, I am in a muddle again, but it’s all internal:
Guy At Work.
I feel like my feet are slowly being trapped in a sticky web.
Everything happens via email.
He’s not over his ex.
He’s EU in plenty of ways (I went back to the checklist!)
The trouble is that this guy is my last ex all over again, and I feel it, and I know it, and it’s luring me in, the way he did!
So last night I had a good talk with myself and resolved to cut ties. Trouble is, I have had this talk with myself several times now, and then he’s done something cute. But always via email.
Thanks to the therapy, at least now I can identify that a) I get like this when I have unmet needs, and b) this guy is NOT going to meet those needs.
So today I am trying to see this as an opportunity to put the work into practice, and STOP with the amusing emails (fark, the guy is psychic – just got one now!) I have been doing too much of the Pick Me Dance and being sparkly. And you stop by stopping. So I am stopping. I am not being a ghost; just restricting email comms to work matters.
This is one of the hard times, but it’s good to bite down and DO THE RIGHT THING. It’s also good to show you guys my vulnerability, and to ask for your support, which I’m really bad at! I have to look after myself and protect myself from these guys who are no good for me.
Thank you for listening.
Well done Etheldreda!
Just be careful, most likely as you increase the distance he will turn on the heat.
Best of luck to you!
Ethelreda – he is no good. You have sussed it out IN THE MOMENT and now you get the opportunity of a life time to – set boundaries and follow them through….protecting yourself……and get on with what will really fulfill your needs ie working out what are those things you really need to focus on.
Well done – really really good breakthrough. Yep its hard to be the wise AND vulnerable one – but you don’t get one without the other. I wish you lots of whatever you need to get through this and come out of it joyful – keep sticking up for yourself.
Eltheldreda the Unready,
Thank you for sharing your experience, strength, and hope.
Keep taking care of yourself~~:)
And here’s the best bit, ladies – he admitted yesterday that he’s STILL MARRIED.
Boy, did I dodge a howitzer.
My gut was telling me from Day 1 about this guy, but nooo – I had to keep going, because I don’t really trust my gut yet. This has been a valuable lesson in learning that my gut is right, and that I should always give IT the benefit of the doubt, well over my so-called ‘reasoning’ mind.
So some hot tears last night, but this morning great relief, because now I know. I do not thrive on ambivalence – that, I know.
And it’s also lived confirmation of the adage that if a guy can’t or won’t tell you straight out what his relationship status is, he is hiding something. And this guy was.
Ethelreda, wow … charming. Married and flirts. Good thing you have done your work! (and you have) He’s a spider luring women into his harem (ok, is that a mixed metaphor? lol) and you have been smart enough to see him for what he is, and to pull the plug. Good move!!
Nicely done!!
Good job Ethelreda!!!!! You dodged an effing nuclear warhead!
Good on you Etheldreda the Unready. Well done.
Right on time this post!! Made a friend a few months back on the back of my friend of 15 years taking me for granted and that relationship ended as I did use my boundary to say enough is enough, then came this friend who has become worse than my old friend. In the beginning I will tell her all my dating woes and what was going on in my life, let say I was emotionally slutty. This girl however Was never as open with me about her life it appears nothing happened in her life. Recently we were out with friends when one of my friend who was engaged for 4days was talking about the event bearing in mind I was leaving with my boyfriend and engaged to be Married for 5year before the relationship broke down, so I said to her I can imagine how my friend felt as I have been in the same situation before. This girl then said it’s no the same as she was actually engaged and I only lived with my boyfriend so it not the same. Meaning the a four days engagement was for more important then me living with someone for five years. This is not the first time she has made me feel like I was unimpo before or like my issues were secondary to other she always made me feel that way. After the event which she believed to be awkward because i told her I will not be bothering her anymore with my unimportant issues. After the event I called her wanting to speak to her as I did not want to discuss this with my other friends around I wanted a one to one conversation she refused to pick up
My call her call me back. Since this event she has refused to speak to me or invite me anywhere and I will be left out of things, this included gym as me her use to go and I even moved gym so she had someone to go with. Now however she ask other friends and put it on snap chat for me to see. I find this very stressful as we share a group of friends and I am
Not able to interact anymore properly with them non of my friends know what have gone on she just stopped talking to me.
Hi, The Life.
Time to say goodbye to this new “friendship”. It was meant to be short-lived, and if you try to turn it into more, you’re just inviting more disappointment into your life.
You were aching to feel connected, so that caused you to be “emotionally slutty” because you were so in need of feeling like you had a friend. She’s showing that she has no feelings of emotional loyalty to you, so stop trying to turn her into a BFF. She attacked your point of view, unnecessarily. Would’ve been good if you said at that moment that “We don’t have to agree.”
The lesson learned here is to slow down in getting to know ANYBODY.
Go no contact with her. Look into codependency as a possible cause for your need to attach yourself so quickly. Decline any invitations from her. Chances are, once you go no contact with her, she’ll seek you out, if only to include you in events where she can ignore you or put you down. And move back to your old gym if it is affordable to do so. If you can’t do that, continue to go to this new gym, but treat her as someone who is NOT in your life.
I was in a 3 yr relationship that was devoured by radio silence. My girlfriend had extreme difficulty with emotional communication and faded to complete darkness over the course of the last year of our relationship, literally running away to another state to avoid me. I hear from her via text every few months. Very trivial stuff “Hi. How are you” kind of stuff. No indication of why she left or what her reasons were for leaving. She still, to this day, has never actually broken it off with me. It’s a source of frustration, sadness, and also conflict in my current relationship. It’s just too bad we couldn’t both have found the courage to break through the silence and really communicate our needs and feelings. We had a great relationship that just disappeared into thin air.
I must say radio silence is always the easiest option at times
but leads to so much inner pain as i have recently learnt.
I’m coming here for some support. I live with a flatmate who I barely knew before we moved in. It hasn’t really worked out. She eats my food, drinks my alcohol, brings men home and keeps me awake at night, fails to pay her share of the bills etc. The final straw came this weekend when she decided to have a party at 3am against my wishes knowing full well I have an important interview to prepare for. It’s not 7.30am and her guests are still here making a racket. I’ve asked them to leave but they laugh in my face. I tried to get the police to help but supposedly she’s entitled to have guests. My flatmate has just been very aggressive to me telling me I’m the problem, I’m difficult to live with, spoiled and am always going to be alone as this is why everyone leaves me every time. I’m so upset. I’ve kept quiet over so many issues because I wanted to avoid conflict and now this nightmare is happening. On the separate issue of the comment about me always being alone, it’s really hit me and maybe it’s true. I don’t value her opinion as she does not consider or respect others but it’s hit a nerve. How do I become loveable so others won’t leave? 🙁
Hi Yoyo –
You answer your own question with the line: ‘I live with a flatmate who I barely knew before we moved in.’
It’s easy to be wise after the event, but you have been burned by a bad choice. Never move in with someone you don’t really know, whether it’s a partner or just a flatmate. And especially someone you barely know! And yet people do this all the time.
You need to go back and look at your lease, and/or speak to a local agency that handles problems with landlords and tenants. There should be services in your area that manage these kinds of conflicts, as they are sadly very common. There will be steps you can take, depending on what kind of lease you have signed with or without this person.
This is nothing to do with you and your relationships. It’s everything to do with the fact you have moved in with someone you didn’t know, who turned out to be an unstable and very selfish person.
Why you made this choice IS worth exploring, but not yet – what you have to do now is establish your personal safety and the safety of any possessions you have in the house. And see if you can legally get this person out of the house, or find yourself somewhere else to live and leave her holding the baby, if you have to.
You just made a bad choice, that’s all. Focus on fixing the immediate situation, and then later on come back and look at your personal issues behind the bad choice.
Yoyo, Ethelreda,
I would not assume that Yoyo chose to live with someone she barely knew – in most cities I know, and in towns, single people rarely have the luxury of living alone or the luck of needing somewhere at the same time as a good friend, so it’s very common to go into the unknown. You don’t really know someone until you live with them, so it’s not an option for most sharers. The last person I lived with was a friend of a friend who had very similar political views, the same career, and was perfectly pleasant when we met face to face, but then when it came to living with him, I would come home very late to avoid being in the same room. My only other option was a complete stranger. You just don’t know.
I can only offer my solidarity. I know how crushing it is to live in an unhappy situation, and how hurtful it is when people don’t respect things that are important to you. The first thing is of course to split as soon as you can or get her to. Ethelreda has good advice on handling the conflict side of things.
In the meantime, there is your self esteem to care of. Can you take a step back and emotionally detach yourself from her, while clearly communicating? If you’re tired and emotional in this kind of conflict, it makes things so much worse, though is completely understandable. Is she as obnoxious sober as drunk? Is there a better time to talk to her?
I’m sorry you feel unloveable. It is very much a matter of self esteem rather than ‘making yourself loveable’, it takes loving your life and yourself, then the ‘nobody loves me’ record that you’re playing will disappear. I think this is difficult to attain when you’re in such a terrible situation, but are there small things you can do to make yourself feel better? Are there interests you can follow/take up? Ways to get more fresh air? It’s also a good time to use BR to explore your beliefs and values, but really, I know very few people who haven’t had a nightmare flatmate at some time so please don’t take it all personally.
Thanks for your messages. Unfortunately most of my friends are married so wouldn’t be looking for a flatshare and it’s more affordable to share – though I now realise I’m paying a different price. I’ll be on my own from now that’s for sure.
I’ve done a lot if work on my self esteem thanks to the BR course and I felt I had made huge headway, until a recent ghosting which set me back. Thanks for taking the time to message x
Etheldreda, it’s very common in major cities to live with someone you don’t know, especially as a young person. If you got a dream job in a city you don’t know, and can’t afford to live by yourself, what are you supposed to do?
I don’t know, I find your response a bit shaming towards Yoyo. Bad roommates happen to a lot of people. It’s a crapshoot and then over time you get better at it. Or eventually you can afford your own place. I think it’s unfair to ask her to examine why she made a “bad choice” without knowing the context.
Is it very common? Is it? I had no idea. The thought of sharing an abode with someone I don’t know is VERY uncommon for me. Just the thought of that freaks me out. I have a small nuclear family, one sibling, and from the age of eight I always had my own room. Got my 1st place at 22, a 1 bedroom apartment – never entertained the thought of having a roomie. Even when I had to search the couch for change to get on the bus to go to work and get my next paycheck.
We don’t know what we don’t know. Some things we think are “common” aren’t necessarily another persons’ reality. That’s why one must observe and ask questions before jumping into arrangements that are hard to extricate ourselves from –especially financial things, like sharing rent or mortgage or cosigning (NEVER COSIGN! NEVER!).
What are the other persons habits and traits? As teenagers, a BFF and I talked about sharing an apartment after graduating high school. We visited an older buddy who had a two bedroom, and noticed one of the bedroom’s was larger than the other. Afterwards, my BFF said to me that she thought “The person with the bigger room should pay more rent”. I realized that kind of thinking could grow — the person who watches more TV would pay the most of the electric bill, the person who cooks more would pay more of the gas bill, the person who bathed more often would pay more of the water bill…etc… I realized she and I were NOT going to become roomies, because I don’t agree with that kind of logic.
Yes, it is very common.
More verbal abuse – everyone hates me, I’m the worst person to live with she can’t stand me, I’m spoiled, I run crying to daddy, no man would ever want to be with me, everyone of her friends who met me can’t stand me. I’m never met someone so horrible and such a bully. She tells me she’s having another party tonight and she hopes my interview is awful and I don’t get the job. I feel like I’m in an abusive relationship and need to run away. Looks like I need to find a hotel for tonight. So upset and she knows exactly what she’s doing.
Yoyo, I’m very sorry this is happening to you. Please focus on what you can do to help yourself. If you focus on her, what she’s saying/doing, it drains your power/energy and that’s exactly what she wants! She wants you powerless – a victim, so she can dominate/control you.
Take your power back. Immediately look at your lease/contact the landlord to see what your rights are. Is there a clause that allows you to break her lease for certain reasons? A 30 day opt out, etc.. If you need help with that, ask for it.
When you start to take steps to protect yourself, assert yourself, you will feel less like a victim and you will actually discover that you have more power in this situation than you realize.
Keep yourself safe, but face this head on. She’s a bully. If you need help with it from your father or someone else, get it. You can do this, Yoyo!!
Oh, and I forgot to mention that it is NOT in your best interest to let her know what steps you are taking to protect yourself. It’s ammunition for her and it weakens your power as she will try to counter your moves. If you can stay away from her while you work on resolving this situation, that’s in your best interest. At a minimum detach emotionally.
Don’t tell her any more of your business or feelings. She’ll only use the info against you. Don’t tell her at what hotel you’ll be staying.
And it kills me that women think it’s an insult to say “No man will ever want you.” I can live with the fact that no man will ever want me.
Elgie R. Thank you I appreciate it very much
Thank you. I am stuggling with this, have been for the past 12 months. Back when I didn’t know I had been abused since my childhood, I was compliant and did anything not to break contact with people.
Then the epiphany came that I was literally surrounded by EUMS and abusive people, so cutting ties became vital.
After so much work (yay me!) I am now in a good place, surrounded by normal, aevrage people (emotionally speaking).
Yet, I am still in survival mood (hence, I believe, the insomnia).
“Sometimes as humans, we have to stand still and allow ourselves to be seen and to see others.” I am trying to learn how to float and trust that the water will carry me, that it won’t let me drown, and that there are no monsters in the water anymore. Plus, the boat I’ve built for myself is solid.
Not easy!
Well guys.. here it goes.. I have been on and off on BRclaim over the past few years and just when I think I got rid of my emotionally unavailable assclown (yes all of those things!) I found myself “back out there” again or “trying to put myself back out there” not realizing that with my attitude and what I actually was projecting was “Pick me, pick me!” syndrome and trying too hard..
I really fell for someone I work with mostly via phone, and he knew it, and he took advantage of my availability or his lack there of.. to what I feel like was stringing me a long.. which really just showed me that my lack of self esteem was still very much present.. but what it also made me realize was HIS lack of awareness and lack of finding real fulfillment.. which most of these FF don’t seem to realize..
I felt he gave me hints that he liked me too because I felt the connection was so obvious, that how could he NOT pick up on what WE were doing.. I felt his co-workers noticed and mine did too.. even from never meeting him or vise versa as we speak over the phone..
I think that they try to make themselves “available” to us AT TIMES or HALF WAY, more like half ass.. because THEY are insecure and want to put their feelers out there to see if we will bite at their bait if you will..
Ego trip? Yes
Genuine and looking for a relationship? Willing to put in the effort?
No, but willing to make make “appearances” – sure. They wouldn’t want to make themselves look like complete assholes, right.
Well we got together one time (the first time ever meeting after our phone flirting) and sometimes working 🙂 and we had dinner. He was the perfect gentleman, talking about how he wants to buy a house for his future family, a new car, he wants to get married in a year etc.
He had a plan!
Wow, what was more attractive for me! I could use the focused mindset myself or maybe I just was the same way! Wow, what a perfect match for me, I thought.
He even opened the car door for me, how sweet.
I couldn’t help but text him and thank him for the evening. I’m always the type (good or bad) to let me feelings be known.
Many texts later I get a “when am I going to see u again?” text from him, followed by a couple trys to put something together (MY initiation)
Then, a “We can hang out when I get back from my friends bachelor party. I actually wish you could come.”
To the “I’m back now, I just wanted to tell you, so we can hang out, I’ll call you”
to NADA
NOTHING
Not responding to texts, and shying away from me and I could feel it. He had found someone else.
And then, like a bat out of water, months later, he was back, with “If you were local I would come over” to the “what are you doing tonight” questions.. wow talk about hot and heavy to me
I should have realized these were more than likely to this day I believe just ploys for you know what, he wanted a shag..
Here I am, jumping at his every word! HE wants to see ME???
Wow..
Last Friday I made the mistake of texting him “I wanna see u :(”
Part of me just wanted him to reject me, just tell me it can’t happen, just tell me..
Now I did try to talk to him before and I had gotten frustrated with the whole back and forth above early on! One night I got very pissed and I wrote, “did you ever even like me??” His response… “what?”
Need I say more…
So back to my text… and yes Nat it was a Friday night =)
Our favorite right?
He wrote back “Are you coming this way, where are you staying, what do you wanna do”
I knew it and by this time I was already on my way driving there
I just knew he wouldn’t (flat out reject) me. This was finally my acknowledgment that YES, we had a connection and HE knew it all along.. and this was “the moment”
Well, he didn’t ask where I was going to stay just for comfort purposes so he could sleep at night, he wanted to come there.. in my hotel room… and he made it known to me when he was around 10 min from me.. (mind you, we live around an hour away)
Well I did not know how to take this. I can’t say I didn’t see it coming but I was blinded my infatuation and “our shared connection and bond”..
Well we did the deed, he left, and I felt bad..
My friends say “it was about time”, and “you guys had to get that over with” but I can still see how we talked today and how he still makes sure to not totally reject me.. but to basically give me the bottom CRUMBS as Nat says.. of his existence.. and more often than not, it’s a phone call because HE needs something.. it’s not a fulfillment to me after all..
Sorry for this being so long but wishing you all the best. I wish I didn’t have to talk to him AT work, but I also wish to change my cell phone so he cannot bother me at all hours of the night with work… and then once in awhile keeping me hanging by the “You got glasses.. send me a picture” with no response..
BYE, ASSCLOWN.
LOVE U ALL.
Kelly
@Kelly,
This has future faking written all over it(marriage at this stage, WTF?). He just wants a shag, the connections are faked to ensure the shag. If communication is mainly via phone and inperson meeting only for a shag, it has no future. Be wise, stay NC, walk out of this quagmire.
Kelly, I was praying as I read your story that you DID NOT do the deed…but…oh well.
You were the Uber of sex for him. You drove to him, and in order to feed your need to feel “connected” you decided sex would mean you two had something special.
Oh, Kelly.
Men who play with women’s hearts have learned to put on the “I want to settle down and have a family” act. They have learned that is the best line to pull, because women lap it up without any need to see evidence that it is true. They just start competing to win the prize of being the woman with whom he builds that future.
Well, he’s just another sown seed now. He’ll hang around for sex, but there’s no deep connection building here. But your post shows you see the truth. I hope it won’t take you too long to completely heal from this.