When someone says that much as they love / like you, that they can’t be with you, or you have to be kept a secret, or it’s never going to progress into something more serious, you’ve actually been declared incompatible. It’s stuff like:
“My parents wouldn’t approve.”
“My kids can’t cope with me being in a relationship” – sometimes these ‘kids’ are adults with their own children.
They don’t believe in something that they’ve known you always believe in.
You’re the ‘wrong’ colour, religion, race, background.
One or both of your parents have the ‘wrong’ type of problems.
One time many moons ago before they were in your life, you did something that they don’t like.
You’re not a virgin…even though you’re both pushing fifty and they’re not one either…
You’re too young or too old.
You don’t have enough money or you don’t handle your finances, career etc in a way that they ‘approve’ of.
You don’t ‘look’ the ‘right’ way.
You have the same kids that you showed up to the relationship with.
They blindside and confuse you because more often than not, whatever it is that they’re deeming you as ‘incompatible’ with, existed when you became involved. This begs the question:
If you can’t be with me because of this, what the frick are you doing with me and why did you get involved in the first place or continue once it became apparent?
What’s incredibly difficult to deal with in these situations is feeling like you’re being ‘penalised’ with a reason that’s beyond your control while at the same time being made to feel that if you win ‘enough’ of their love, they might see their way to changing their mind and letting you into the ‘winner’s enclosure’.
After an ex told me that he’d treated me poorly because I hadn’t told him how to cope with being in an interracial relationship, with my lack of self-esteem, I believed that he would have treated me better had this ‘issue’ not existed. However, even if I’d bleached myself or actually been white, another issue would have been blamed and it doesn’t change his actions.
I’ve come across many readers that believe that they would have gained love, commitment and better treatment had it not been for the fact that they were older / younger / black / white / too dark / didn’t have an alcoholic father / were a Christian / weren’t a Muslim / came from a wealthy family. If you’re already of the inclination to believe that you’re not good enough or that love is about having the power to change someone, this situation will play to your insecurities.
What many don’t realise is that getting into relationships with people that go against your values and may even need to be kept a secret or may be considered rebelling, is just another form of commitment resistance.
It’s made to sound like the feelings and desire to commit are there, it’s just that circumstances beyond their control are preventing them. While some may be genuine reflections of a person’s values, you have to question someone’s authenticity when they get involved with people that contradict a core value that they claim they’re not going to change but they stay anyway.
If they don’t believe in relationships where there’s a significant age difference, why bother?
If they emphatically believe that they could never be with someone of your race, background etc, why not jog on and save you both the time and energy?
If their kids can’t cope with them being in a relationship and they don’t intend to cope, why hang around for a shag, an ego stroke and a shoulder to lean on?
Often, when you dig into their relationship history, they 1) have ‘form’ and have only been with people who they know they ‘can’t’ commit to, or 2) are only with people they have to keep a secret, or 3) they’re unavailable after being with someone who did reflect their values and are avoiding their feelings and commitment with you – rebound relationship with a Transitional.
It didn’t take long for Katie to discover that her ex is always dating white women that he ‘just can’t see himself with’. I know of someone who only dates black or different religion guys that she can’t bring home to her strict parents.
You can end up feeling like you’re not up to standard while at the same time implying that there’s so much love there that they couldn’t ignore or fight it. “Wow, they must be really crazy about me if they’re prepared to go against their values or risk the wrath of their family/community to be with me!” It’s not real risk if they were never intending to truly follow through on it or they think it’s a ‘managed’ risk – just ask Cheaters.
Our values are tied to our beliefs which really help to shape the choices we make and also what we believe our capabilities are in that context. If you don’t believe in something, no matter how hard you try, until that belief changes along with an adjustment of the values attached to it, you’re never going to be truly ‘in’ and committed to something for it to actually work.
Just like the person that doesn’t believe that relationships work always finds a way for their relationships not to, and the person convinced that they’re not good enough finds reasons to legitimise this belief, people who don’t believe they can be with you, will find a way to keep pressing the exit button and sabotaging your relationship until it dies anyway. You can also never feel truly secure with them – they don’t have your back!
Some of these reasons are legitimate. Religion for example is very important to many and a basic part of relationships is respecting each others values – if you ignore or try to impose your values, you end up incompatible anyway.
People of different races, religions, ages etc get involved all the time – these people believe that they can be who they are and be with the other person because their feelings and how they want to conduct their lives are mutual. Equally, I’ve seen these situations not work out because the feelings may be there but the difference in values couldn’t be overcome – incompatible. Equally people of the same race, religion, age etc have completely different values, so it’s important to see the wood instead of the trees.
When someone says they ‘can’t’ be with you for whatever reason and they’re not looking to co-pilot a relationship with you and find a solution you can both live with, they’re unavailable.
Don’t get confused and think “If they loved me they’d change.” People love all the time and struggle to change smaller things than a major difference in core values. If they don’t figure out who they are, what they want, and ultimately make a decision and commit to it, you’re just being made to wait around while they get to have their cake and eat it and avoid commitment. In the worst instances, you’ll be kept as a back pocket option while they secretly or even openly get involved with someone else.
You don’t want to be someone’s secret or rebellion companion. Just like the person who overestimates their capacity for a relationship, some people overestimate the possibility that they’ll ‘change’. And then just like the many that think that if someone is that great they’ll spontaneously combust into being available or a better person, some people set you up to fail by putting it all on you to galvanise them into changing their values.
When someone says that you’re not the right one for them or that they ‘can’t’ be with you, it means they’re no longer the right one for you. You can’t ignore core values – if it wasn’t that important or it was mutual, it wouldn’t be making a difference.
Go and find a mutual relationship. Not just in feeling, but in intent, commitment, and shared values. And it should go without saying – whatever it is that ‘stops’ them from being with you / being able to commit is a reason but it’s not an excuse for any dodgy treatment of you. Nuff said!
Your thoughts?
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My ex told me that i didn’t have a ‘big, round and shapely bottom’ he wanted a girl with one. I promptly told him to go find a girl like that and stop telling me what im not and he just shook his head….and stayed.
Talk about twat
I also had something like this. This guy told me I was too fat (I was just average) and needed to lose weight and then when I lost weight he said I was too bony and had no curves.
I actually had a guy tell me I was too slender and he wished I had a bigger butt! But a bigger butt is not my idea of what I need; I have good proportions that I (and most guys) seem happy with. He’d look longingly at another gal’s out-of-portion rear every time she was in the room. This is as insulting as me really wanting a guy of a certain race (that is not his) and looking longingly at them while clearly only “settling” for him. These are shallow and immature dynamics. They do not at all value the beauty of the person they are with, and instead hold some fantasy as more important than the person they should be focusing on (and I certainly don’t want a guy like that).
Doesn’t it really make sense if one has these preferences that one would pre-screen who they dated? Otherwise, it indeed seems an excuse not to get close. If they don’t want to be with a “white” person or a “Christian” person, etc., these aren’t things you can’t easily overcome, and which they see up front.
Other than religion, which matters to me (and I will prescreen accordingly), the traits I look for are more global. I look for “fitness”, but this can be slim, average, or buff. Etc., etc. Do they have a nice smile and eyes, warmth and friendliness, intelligence? I don’t know these to discriminate by particular color combinations. I can’t imagine ditching someone for a surface quality.
Maybe we should ask people if there are certain traits that are deal breakers, up front?
Ladies – I have just two words to say to you, and those words are ‘Hugh’ and ‘Grant’.
Liz freakin’ Hurley wasn’t pretty enough for him.
Right?? And don’t forget HALLE BERRY was cheated on, too!
I went out with a guy once who told me my feet were too big. Yes, seriously. And he said it one night when we were in bed after having sex.
One ex-EUM, during the 5 years before we got together, often used to tell me what great legs I had. Once we we had got involved, he told me I had horrible legs. Huh????? Didn’t stop him from continuing to see me for a further 5 non-commital years though… These people, truly, are just crazy and ambivalent.
How about: “Your breasts aren’t the right shape.”
Did you also tell him to write to Santa and order a better Barbie, but not to expect mommy to still be around at Christmas to pick up his dirty socks? Pun intended.
The one and only truly, 100% EU man I ever dated married the woman with whom he had an off-again, on-again relationship for at least 3 years. They broke up at least 5 times. (Who knows, really.)
I know a girl he dated–ONCE–who he had MEET HIS FRIENDS on their first date. He never called her again.
When he met the girl for the first time, at a social gathering, he told another woman at the same social gathering–a woman who knew his then-ex, now-wife–that she, the woman friend, “had to meet this girl” as the girl lived in the woman’s building. They met then and there. So that the woman would tell his then-ex that he was eyeing a new prospect?
Anyways, this girl is tall with dark curly hair. Not bad-looking at all. Grad-school-educated. Nice. And wouldn’t sleep with a guy before marriage.
The woman he married? Tall, thin, blonde, and (sorry to say) plain plain plain (of not downright unattractive), with (again, sorry to say) horrible skin to boot. She slept with him by the time they hit the 3-month mark, and despite their rocky beginnings.
When he dated ANY of us, he always looked at other women.
Hey, if they want to look, and they want to treat the darker/shorter/not-as-anorexic of us badly (or worse than the women they end up marrying), then they’d better damn well bring home to momma the Very Embodiment of the Vision of Prefection that they have. Their (bad) actions had better lead to something of substance to justify them!
Great post Nat. I can identify in several relationships. One told me I wasn’t educated enough, another notable one told me I wasn’t sexually experienced enough.
Thank you so, so much NML you are my constant coach, the one that actully encourages me, lays it out for me to read in plain black and white. I am out 2 months shy of an affair…I worked with Mr. Unavailable for almost 6 years, I always found him charming but thought nothing more as he was married. He got wind it and I found myself avoiding him on FB or IM, or in the hallways with his little innuendo’s. He started actively pursuing me last year, I was vulnarble (10 years widowed only one real relationship since) he is 13 years younger than myself. One day I gave in at the very worst possible time, he was expecting his first child, we ended up in an six month affair. He promised me the whole world, I know all the back lash that will come from this confession, but I believed him. I wanted to believe him, although not for one moment did I ever loose the guilt involved, it ate at me daily even sabotaging the affair in ways. He started talking about moving in, telling me one day he was going to show up at my door. I knew in my heart this was wrong for the obvious, we would never make it in the real world. For various reasons on his drive home one day he ended, I’ve been a complete mess since, I told him I was crushed but respcted his need for being with his son. I was wrong in being with him and knew it was just the price I had to pay. I tried being sensible, but he got to me as he started being cold as we would see each other throught the day at work. One Sunday afternoon I came home to a ransaked home, I panicked text’d him asking if he had ever left my house key under the door mat, he said he still had my key (almost a month after he ended things), a brief interaction and he never spoke to me at work over it, I was hurt but, as the days went on and he would still hang out near my work are, I asked for space, he agreed. But when I would run into him in the parking area or walkways he would make it so obvious he didn’t want to see my by having a sour look to him, that I felt embarrased by the reaction of my co-workers that may or may not know. I blew up at him last week after almost three weeks of no contact, and then I read your NC emaill, reminding me of many things, especially not to expect him to validate me…he’s done a compltet about face, acts as if I am not even in the same room, after years always making me the center of his…
Yea, when I pulled him up on his first disappearing act he explained how he had really seen himself with a young Catholic virgin (I guess he could only hope that this virgin wasn’t also looking for a virgin – cos it wouldn’t be him!) Talk about double standards! And funny, it didn’t stop him seeing me for sex and an ego stroke for the previous three months before he came up with that rubbish. His previous two girlfriends were a Jew and a Muslim, so he sure wasn’t looking very hard for a young Catholic virgin. When I pointed this out to him he just mumbled ‘Yes… I know’. End of discussion (pathetic) I thought he had to be kidding himself on, so I didn’t pay a whole lot of attention to what he said he was really looking for. Having never heard so much nonsense in my life (and given that he had plainly been pleased enough with me up until that point); I assumed it was just a daft excuse cos he couldn’t think of anything else to say.I wasn’t insulted, juts angry that anyone could say anything so stupid and expect to be taken seriously. So I didn’t take him seriously!
I was right that it was an excuse but what I failed to take heed of was that he didn’t see himself with me – or with anyone actually and that this was non-negotiable. We parted for best part of a year but we “found each other again” (whoopeee) and trundled on with our incompatability for another nine years – on and off. I’m still not what he’s looking for – no-one is what he’s looking for because he’s not actually looking for anyone. It’s not about me. Oh, if only I knew then what I know now. But I knew none of it was good news – of course I knew; I just chose to ignore it. I thought I could be so wonderfully appealing in every way that he would quit his nonsense about not “seeming” to want to be with me properly and I’d eventually get into the winner’s enclosure (so funny Nat!)
Fearless, I might have said this before, but he sounds like the type that, if he ever married a virgin, he’d be haranguing her for not being “experienced” enough. Also, you’re “We parted for best part of a year but we “found each other again” (whoopeee)” made me choke on my tea. I know EXACTLY what you mean!
I’m still not what he’s looking for – no-one is what he’s looking for because he’s not actually looking for anyone. It’s not about me.
————————————–
This is the truth – in a nutshell!
Ab-so-LUTELY, Kay!!
So true! The whole point of wanting what you can’t have is that you will never actually have to have it and therefore never have to be vulnerable or compromise. I bet if the idiot did find a Catholic virgin, he would suddenly find himself very busy with work, or cleaning his shoes, or some such nonsense!
Minky, it’s just bollocks! He was talking through his arse and that was obvious even to him – no wonder he had nothing further to say on the matter, ever again, nor about any of his other stupid one liners; they appreciate the old adage: better to remain silent and have people think you could be a fool than to open your mouth and confirm the fact.
Perfectly said!!!!
“people who don’t believe they can be with you, will find a way to keep pressing the exit button and sabotaging your relationship until it dies anyway.”
I believe my EUM of 5 years was eventually waiting for something to go wrong so he could press the Exit Button. Some of his many poor excuses/ reasons of why he wanted to break up was because “he was bored”, Needed more alone time & to do his own thing (even though I only went to his place 1 or 2 days a week) & he wanted change. It all comes down to if their NOT receiving that EXCITEMENT or your NOT providing some sort of a “purpose” for them – then your time is up…… (BTW) he had a new g/f & she moved in with him within 1 month of me emailing him my No Contact message.
It’s ALL about them!!! In 2 words – Egotistical & narcissistic.
And I wanted to say ….Thanks again NAT for another GREAT Article.
You are always helping me to keep it “REAL” & to keep my sanity “In Check”!!!
ElleJaeP,
“It all comes down to if they are NOT receiving that EXCITEMENT or you are NOT providing some sort of a “purpose” for them – then your time is up……”
Well said, girl!!! I had the same situation happening to me just few months back. I tried my best to save our “relationship” while Mr. EUM was enjoying all I had to offer but also saying “I am not ready for a serious relationship” The last straw came in July when he pulled a disappearing act on me… taking his new girl on vacation. I was livid obviously.
It’s all about them, they are overgrown babies!!!
This is EXACTLY what I lived with, and put up with, for over 4 years! As friends first, he KNEW our age difference and that I had kids and couldn’t have any more, and he entered into a relationship anyway. Yet, since then, although he loved me SO much and couldn’t/wouldn’t do without me, those are the exact reasons he’s used to NOT let things progress/become permanent! And I internalized it, letting it become about “what’s wrong with ME, that he “loves” me but won’t commit, when he knew all this about me to begin with???” This SO hit the nail on the head, Natalie! Thank you for reaffirming that it’s not about MY deficiencies, but just a smokescreen for HIS!
Having a similar experience myself. Been seeing someone with a large age difference for around 4 months,he dosn’t want kids, knew the score from the off,both happy,or so I thought…….suddenly started to blow hot and cold. Saw each other at the weekend,no contact since. Not anything i’ve done/not done, but feeling ashamed for being ME !
One of my ex EUMs I met as a long distance pseudo relationship. It wasn’t long until I found out that almost all of his relationships past and after me were long distance, girls that lived in other states. He travels extensively for his job but it wasn’t until I became an avid BR student that I realized that this was his inherent rip cord out of any real commitment and in fact I believe intentionally looks for LDRS. Eventually someone has to move and when push came to shove thats when he would pull the rip cord. But it’s a set up from the beginning. Unfortunately I wasted my precious time on this bloke until I finally got smart and sent him packing via NC. But, I’ve said it on here before, I’m very wary of LDRs and believe many EUMs use this as a tool. One of my best friends met a guy in another state a few months ago, she’s seen him 3 times since on weekend visits.. he met her family, etc. She just found out yesterday he’s married.
As a half-Jew who was involved with a guy that decided he had a problem with my Hebrew Half after having yo-yo-ed me for five years (and yes, I was a half-Jew the entire time), I agree with everything in this article! It wasn’t like he even said, “Jeez, Natasha, I’ve all of a sudden decided this is an issue.” (To be honest, I’m not even sure it was – in this case it was prob just him squirming out of dating me. He’d asked me about religion preferences as far as raising children and my perogative was and still is, “I don’t care which religion they are raised in or choose for themselves, as long as they are good kids with good values.”) He instead just decided to start making nasty remarks, i.e. getting spectacularly intoxicated and referring to me as “Anne Frank”. I kid you not. He’s tried pushing the reset button on me (of course), but I can tell you this…homeboy is on my Permanent Schmuck List.
Oy gevalt. What a See-You-Next-Tuesday he turned out to be. But I think you’re right – it would have been something else, had it not been your Jewish background.
Oh, you are well rid of this one, to be sure. How repellant.
PJM, you hit the nail on the head! Who tries to make a comeback after that?! This is why he had to be told “Gay kaken afen yam.” (for the uninitiated, that means, “Go sh*t in a lake.”).
“getting spectacularly intoxicated and referring to me as “Anne Frank”. I kid you not.”
That’s appalling. He didn’t have the balls to end it himself so he insults you hard enough you’ll end it for him. That’s all he could come up with (nothing essentially) – that should tell you something.
Fearless, that’s exactly what my mother said! Both of you are very smart ladies, so it’s no wonder. She was like, “Well, what the heck else was he going to pick on you for? He sure wasn’t going to say, ‘Actually, I was just using you and now I’m trying to get out of this thing.'” Her initial reaction actually brought a lot of levity to the situation, because she was raised very old school Russian and Russians are incredibly supersitious. The woman put so many good luck charm necklaces on me, I looked like a rapper that’s just trying WAY too hard 😉
Oh Natasha, you are hilarious.
Awww thanks Janie! I’m thinking I actually missed my calling and should have looked into becoming a rapper. My first hit would be a Jay-Z remix that goes: “Since I won’t respond to your text messages, I feel bad for you son/I got 99 problems but an assclown ain’t one/DON’T CALL ME!”
HAHAHAA!!!!
I feel somewhat like I have been ‘in the closet,’ always dating who I thought I “should” be dating, and never valuing my own desires enough to ask myself what I want, and what I want enough to stand up for. My dating life has been a series of comings “out of the closet,” eventually letting men know I’m serious about wanting someone who isn’t racist and just pretending not to be. But I was the one who dated them in the first place, without first figuring out whether they share my views.
There are those folks who will use some unchangeable thing as their excuse: e.g. “I can’t date anyone so much older.” I could have used that one on my ex. It would have been a cop-out.
Then there are folks who learn about themselves and their own values within the relationship, and as you say, hopefully we get out as soon as an incommensurability becomes obvious: “I realized I can’t date a man who gets a kick out of being the one who gives handouts to minority and women’s groups, and gets to look liberal and generous but still feels superior.” That IS what I said, and I didn’t know that about my values, ie. how deep they run, and how I want to live them, until we’d been through the wash.
As for dudes who feel they can’t bring me home to their parents, thank goodness for the ones who leave me alone or at least eventually come out and say so. Buh-bye. There is nothing worse than someone actually feeling that I am something to be embarrassed about, or that they are doing me a social favor by dating me, but not admitting it. I have had enough of dudes who are trying to prove to themselves that they are something they aren’t, or rebel against values they don’t even know they have.
And when I had low-self esteem, I thought that they were the best I could do, and that most guys would be fighting some big internal battle around being both repelled and attracted by me. I either tried to deny that reality or push through it; and of course ended up with exactly those types! Now, I am real about it: those guys exist, and they can go take a jump and take out their colonial angst on … well, I wouldn’t wish them on any one else. They can just go take a jump and work their sh*t out, already.
This has also been a huge factor in my female friendships, and working it out for myself has been AMAZING as far taking back my self-esteem.
“There is nothing worse than someone actually feeling that I am something to be embarrassed about”…..
Oh the denial we lived in! The above sentence almost makes me sick. My ex jumped around this idea and I choose to ignore it because I believed his words after hearing them over and over again. I was always so proud of him as my boyfriend and would boast to others about his accomplishments. He on the other hand was easily influenced by other’s opinions about me, and let them replace the reality of who I was. One time he really failed to stand up for me … I felt very hidden, like I just wasn’t good enough.
“And when I had low-self esteem, I thought that they were the best I could do, and that most guys would be fighting some big internal battle around being both repelled and attracted by me. I either tried to deny that reality or push through it; and of course ended up with exactly those types!”
Interesting perspective. But absolutely right. And if you think about it, it might make you wonder where their self esteem was at if they were dating someone who they deemed as “less than”?…If you know that you had low self esteem, I’m pretty sure you weren’t picking men who had any that was very high…plus only people who have lower levels of self esteem will allow themselves to settle for less than they deserve. In a relationship, two people with low self esteem equals disaster because they will continually whittle away at each other’s. Glad that you know that you’re worth more than that, we all are.
Feeling particularly bleak today and not sure what to think of the post. I was involved with someone of a different religion. It caused some issues. However, if there had been respectful communication the isues could have been resolved easily. When my ex bf screamed at me “I can’t F’in’ take you to my family dressed this way.” and insisted I wait in the street I took it very personally and responded with my own drama by walking away in a fit of tears.
I carried a lot of insecurity in this relationship bc in addition to being from different backgrounds, I believe that I was also a transitional partner. And therefore we were moving at a snail pace. For most of the relationship he used his tight knit family and how he needed to be there for them as an excuse for why we never went anywhere or did anything alone. The entire relationship consisted of me tagging along to his family events or spending the night at my apartment.
The more this went on, the less valued I felt and the more we fought. In the end he broke it off and he feels he did the healthy thing for himself. I should add that he added his own drama by using profanity at me, hanging up the phone while I was speaking, once he even told me to “shut the F up!” He told me that he only acted this way because I lost my cool so much. While he was breaking it off with me over a text message he was lining up his next, “female friend”. I wonder if he’ll be less aggressive and verbally abusive now that he’s “with somone who’ll let him go at a slower pace”.
I think about how much I would have done for this man i.e. converting to Islam, moving to another state, adjusting to living in a situation where we would never have privacy. One day I’ll feel greatful that he freed me from that. I’m just not there yet. I’m embarrassed that I lost credibility by over dramatizing situations where I had a valid complaint.
Donna,
Never be willing to give up who you are for another.
“I think about how much I would have done for this man i.e. converting to Islam, moving to another state, adjusting to living in a situation where we would never have privacy.”
You’re right, Allison. I don’t think the act of moving for a relationship is a problem for the right person. But in this particular case I would have been moving 4 hours away from my family to be with his and I don’t think I would have ever been treated like a priority. As far as converting, he never asked me to but I was willing to do it. But again, he wasn’t willing to change anythinabout his behavior or meet me halfway on any point. At least not that I could see.
Donna
If he cared that much about Islam he wouldn’t be dating outside his religion and he wouldn’t be having sex outside marriage. With more than one person. And before you think that’s hopelessly oldfashioned I know PLENTY of christians who have only had sex within marriage. I don’t think islam condones swearing either.
You are making this all about YOU. About what YOU are prepared to do. What was he prepared to do for you? Nothing. You think you should have let him go at a slower pace? A slow pace to nowhere. He never had any intention of moving this forward. It’s not about you. You focus on your “drama”. I see only an argument and you cried. This is not unusual, If you’d chucked his stuff out into the street or kicked his dog, that would be drama. Do you think you can spend the rest of your life in a relationship where you’re not allowed to argue, disagree, defend yourself or cry? And I know plenty of married women who do all these things and their partners still love them. You can’t have respectful communication with someone who doesn’t respect you. Believe me, I’ve tried it. He broke it off because it was “healthy” for him? You give him so much credit. If it was for his health, he would be taking time out to consider and heal, not lining up his next victim.
If you disregard the religious aspect, what you have is a man who ignores your feelings and insults you. If you take it into consideration, what you have is man who ignores your feelings, insults you and is a hypocrite. How can you, a mere human being, change him into something “better”? It’s lose-lose all over.
Everything you say about him and this relationship is inaccurate because you think it’s all about you and it isn’t. That needs to be addressed because it’s hard to move past a breakup until you recognise the truth, rather than spending huge amounts of time, energy, emotion and effort shoring up an edifice. The truth will set you free.
“If you disregard the religious aspect, what you have is a man who ignores your feelings and insults you. If you take it into consideration, what you have is man who ignores your feelings, insults you and is a hypocrite.”
@grace – Apparently, you have met my Muslim Ex. It’s amazing how all the EUMs act THE SAME, no matter what background they are from.
wicked
yes, it’s scary how they treatment they mete out is basically the same. We get distracted by points of difference – he’s muslim, christian, sikh, martian, chinese, black, white, older, younger, married, separated, divorced, a father, bisexual, rich, poor, educated, uneducated etc – as if that somehow excuses everything.
Thanks grace . You are right on every count. I have so much trouble holding on to my truth of the situation. We had a lot of fights as things were winding down but they didn’t have to be as explosive as they were if he had some maturity or if he knew how to handle himself. He would get aggressive so I would start crying or eventually shut down. In the end he said our fighting made the relationship too hard and he wanted things to be easier. but he never seemed to think about how he contributed. I didn’t help matters because I wanted things to work so badly that I accepted way more responsibility than I should have. And you’re right, I was prepared to do all the work, make all the changes. Ultimately replacing the woman in his life was the only change he seemed willing to make.
I am Indian and dated an Indian man for three years. Same race and religion. He dumped me saying that he can’t be with me 1) I am one year older than him. 2) His family wants arrange marriage for him 3) He does not believe in marriage. Funny he gave a ring last year.
Ha, there you go. I dated an indian, too, who had been married once with non-indian before, but she left him. That indian declared his undying love for me, but at the same time, that didnt stop him to get married behind my back, and when l found out, he said: “but youre non indian, and my parents would not approve you and l was forced into this arragned marriage anyway…” Which didnt stop him to keep continue to chase me down.
Feel your pain Sona. I dated an Indian dude and I’m Indian but apparently wasn’t the right type of Indian b/c he snuck off behind my back and had an arranged marriage. Then had the nerve to come slinking back and tell me he’d made the biggest mistake of his life.
HA! Yoy are so right Nat! My ex assclown first had the nerve to tell one of our coworkers (who by the way sexually harassed me a few times and the ex did nothing about) that my abs were not that flat. So I went on to get like twiggy girlfriend he has now, to the point of looking sick! He told me once he liked my sassiness, just not with him. He told me another time I was too short and I had to be taller. He didn’t like my music, and the list goes on! I came to believe it was all things I had wrong and till this dsy affect me since he was si horrible to me and so great to his new gf. My self esteem then was shot down and now it’s still not high enough. That dickface was such a turd and every man that says similar things to women should really look in the mirror first and start nitpicking their own faults. It’s amazing how those types of men suck us in and suck us dry. And the saddest part is the fact that they still keep getting attention from other women who start thinking they’re gods. We need to wisen up as women and collectively see who those turds are to avoid stepping into them.
Dear NML,
Great article. The feeling of confusion when you hear “I love you” and at the same time “You cannot hold my hand cause people know I’m married” is very (very) strong. I made the mistake of being with a married woman for 6 months and the ability to live dualisticly – in two parallel relationships – shocked me. I asked her about us in the future, and she kept on telling me that “we have time” and that “we’ll make our little life together because we love so much”….and for a moment I went with it.
Of course in time (luckily short time) I had enough and asked her to choose. She said something like:’I love you but you don’t know the agony of getting a divorce….just be with me like we do now…”.
Needless to say that it broke my heart…. Never met a person who can say at the same breath that they love you but also that they’ll never be with you. I was tired of being an option and even though it was one of the painful things I did in my life, I finished the deal with her. Went OUT>NC.
Yeah…”buts” can existe in a relationship, but if the fundamental issue of being together is being questioned all the time don’t take their “I love you” so blindly. If they love you they would have seen the situation and WORK on it positively in either ways. Their love would have been seein in actions. And that’s a amjor difference.
Thanks for the article nat – so true 🙂
Interesting post here.
It reminded me of a few things an ex said to me when he wanted to break up. This was after several years of being together. We had our problems but he brought all this other stuff up near the end. He pointed out that he knew I was not attracted to him when we met and that I did not want to have kids (he wanted to). And I do not follow the same religion as him (I did not care what he believed in so as long as he was not trying to shove it down my throat). All of a sudden AFTER YEARS of being with me, he says all this. That it’s fundamental to a relationship. He said he thought I’d change my mind about the kid thing. Though he did not seem to have that much of an issue with my religious views (or lack thereof) in the beginning. So why did he stay all that time if he supposedly knew all this? I think he thought some twinkly little fairy would come along and tap my nose to make me change my mind. Or I’d morph into who he wanted me to be. Wherever he’s at and whomever he’s with, I sure hope the gal follows his religion, wants 2.2 kids and is into him physically.
@Colororange: This is again proof why we should never expect to “change” anyone else. Unfortunately, many women seem to act exactly the same way. If he says “I don’t want kids”, they think “I do want kids, but I don’t worry, because sooner or later I’m going to change him”. This can be a very bad idea.
Frankly, I think if one partner wants kids and the other one doesn’t, that’s a valid reason for a breakup. Having children or not is one of the most important choices in life. We shouldn’t leave this decision to anyone else but ourselves.
I’m not even sure whether I want kids or not. I don’t think this should keep me from (maybe) having a relationship someday, but I have to be aware that this question can indeed become a dealbreaker. That’s life.
I am married to a man who keeps telling me all is fine, Im imagining things and that Im too emotional. Meanwhile he is spending my money, and seeing some of his ex girlfriends as just friends. I’m older by 10 years. He never said I was too old, or anything like that. He never made excuses that I wasn’t enough. He just keeps on sabotaging the relationship because he is disrespectful of women. In certain African countries men are the Lords of the Manor, women are there to serve them, and raise the children. Its about a culture clash, which I find difficult to accept. We are now living apart, and spending our weekends together, which ends up most of the time, in a disagreement about the way he treats me. I tell him without anger, or harshness he is taken advantage of me, then he finds something to pick on; then I get upset, and he blames me for getting upset. He blames everything on me. I also found out he has Aspergers Syndrome, which he is not aware of. A psychiatrist friend of mine, diagnosed him one evening, he is certain of it. So just to let you know, its not about YOU, sometimes its about their condition, and I am not saying this because Im trying to excuse him. There are real sick people out there, and we cannot have them commit to anything or they won’t commit to anyone, except in some cases commit themselves to the looney bin.
Hi Cat Nils –
I hear you; I am all too familiar with this patriarchal attitude, taking women for granted and dishing out the blame. AND the passive aggression: ‘Everything is just fine, you’re too emotional’ – ‘and now watch me while I subvert you, undermine you, pick on you and work out my anger at you in a thousand different ways, leaving you feeling confused, hurt and exhausted’.
But beware of using Asperger’s as an explanation – sometimes it’s a part of the problem, but not the whole problem.
Some Aspies are lovely men but they just have poor social skills and get stressed in certain situations.
BUT: A man with Aspergers can also be narcissistic, passive-aggressive and bad-mannered, like my ex was (and still is).
Yup. Completely on the money, as always.
It occurs to me that this is also a variation on future-faking – only the person is doing it to themselves, rather than you: ‘when I meet the right one’ with the long hair/big arse/small arse/right skin colour/virginity. But it’s always off in la-la land and not here and now.
Another variation on this theme is the ‘Bed of Procrustes’ relationship, where you are constantly compared to the (fantastic and flawless) ex, and while you are OK in and of yourself, it would be so much BETTER if you had long hair/big arse/small arse etc, like she did.
Heavy sigh. Feeling the weight of my ovaries today, ladies, and not enjoying it. Time to take a dose of my own medicine!
The best part of this is that in 99.985% of cases, the “flawless ex” that no one, no ooooooooone, can measure up to…dumped his arse because he acted like a chump with her too.
At this point in my life, if any man hated on my hair/size of my arse/etc., I’d be all, “Right. When are you appearing on the cover of Men’s Health again? Or is it GQ? Neither? Please SIT DOWN.”
Yes yes and more yes! I had this one guy who romanticized his first love, who broke up with him. I always got the feeling that he thought I was the second coming of her in a new flesh, because he said that he never thought he would get this lucky twice. It was funny how I realized that I had met her before and the next time I ran into her we had an interesting conversation about him, and I found out that things weren’t as great as he made them out to be. Funny how he remembered things very differently than she did…
Lia, that is too funny! My ex and some of my close friends live in the same small area. He dated a girl many years ago that he was allegedly crazy about for two months (his theme song is “Everlasting Love”, obvi). They broke up and she moved away and married someone else and, as far as anyone knows, never spoke to him again. When I first went NC, one of my friends took a look at his Fbook profile (I have him blocked) and she called me up hysterically laughing. Apparently, he had changed his profile pic to one of him and this girl. This girl that is married to someone else. These people, I tell you, live in their own bizarre little world haha!
I really will have to remember that one! Sadly my ex assclown would openly criticise me, in a ‘jokey’ (yeah) way then if I tried the same thing back, would say ‘if you think you can get better then rock on’ what a Tw**
This site has helped me through some very dark moments,I only wish I had found it sooner.Another brilliant article Natalie,they are all brilliant.When I read some of the comments from the ladies I sometimes think we have been out with the same person.The lady who went out with the younger man sounds very much like my situation.I know it isn’t,there’s just a lot of assclowns about.
Are you ever going to come to Manchester Nat ? I would love to come and see you. Keep up the good work.
I find this all pretty fascinating. I was with someone who seemed to like me for being what seemed to be his opposite. I didn’t have a demanding job at the time, am creative, not very materialistic, open minded, not religious, and have overcome some crappy behavior and a difficult family. After a while he began to chip away at all of it. I wasn’t driven enough (I was working to establish a freelance career and got a full time job right before we ended-he had nothing good to say about it), my creativity was weird (I should know more scientific and historical facts), my possessions weren’t the best of the best (I have supported myself since I was 18 and never hid that I never made a lot of money), my various friends (according to him no one could be trusted) my political and religious beliefs were too far out (I always said I was agnostic and a libertarian-I still can’t pinpoint his politics, and he’s never attended a church service I know of), my past was too difficult (I gave him the lowdown after 3 months of serious dating, and he failed to ever really disclose his), my family was too much work (his background was no different, but his mother chose to stay, unlike mine), I was too depedant (he complained for months that I never put him first, then when I began to I was making him feel “pinched and squeezed”). I just think I was a novelty to him for awhile, and when it wore off he wasn’t willing to man up and let me go the way someone with true character would. I don’t think he WANTED to be that way, but I also don’t think he had any idea how NOT to be. It didn’t take him long to stop trying to get to know me-instead I was constantly “tested” to make sure I was the person I really said I was. I started deflecting ridiculous innuendos and subtle accusations and suspicions. And so many things he said were so inconsistent with who HE claimed to be, I didn’t know WHAT was going on. It was like he wanted to beat me down for having the confidence to be my real self that he lacked. I’ve posted on here a few times thinking I’ve figured out who he was or what happened, but I’m just going to have to chalk it up to never knowing because I don’t even think he has an idea himself. There aren’t any concrete values in people like that-just confusion you can never keep up with.
Happy Girl, I think in layman’s terms we call this a ‘mind fuck’.
Run like hell. Do not look back. You can do WAY better than this!
good for you – stay a happy girl.
Happy girl,
I agree with PJM. My guess is that if he can’t figure himself out and why he’s unhappy, he will have to start to attack you to avoid doing any self work. Your job wasn’t to be a what he seems to deem as the “right” kind of partner by being like him/agreeing with him in every single way. Of course, sharing core values is important in a healthy relationship. Now, if they don’t line up and he was self aware at all, he could have said early on with respect : “These things are too important to me and with our different values, I don’t think we can progress.”
But to get into the relationship with you, with you putting everything out on the table…and then start the attack on the things you presented yourself as in the first place? It’s cowardly, unfair, and something he’s doing to distract himself from the real source of his unhappiness: a lack of self awareness and as you said probably confidence. I wonder, while you were with him, did you ever have an accomplishment or achieve a goal and he was somehow not as supportive as you hoped he’d be, even for something small? Almost as if he were threatened by it?
Anyhow, If he’s not willing to work on maturing and becoming self aware, then he won’t understand or even perceive his bizarre hypercritical behavior… and if he doesn’t understand it… how can you? You are better off moving on than dealing with someone who is a walking emotional tornado, wreaking destruction in his interpersonal relationships as he goes, regardless of whether it is intentional or not.
jas
Hi everyone
Another great article.I can relate to you jess ,I have a very similar story.I sometimes wonder if I have been out with the same man when I read every ones comments,but I know there are a lot of assclowns out there.
Natalie-Will you be coming to Manchester in the future ?
“One time many moons ago before they were in your life, you did something that they don’t like.”
At first when I started reading today’s post I didn’t think it would be relevant, but yet again, of course it is! I have been told by my ex that he can never forget my partying past. What a shadey thing not to be able to look beyond! I have tried to explain to him how I was never such a partier yet for some reason he choose to stick with it.
My past made me the wonderful person I am today and he could never understand that. Or he did, yet he was using it as an excuse not to be fully committed for whatever reasons he had.
Anyways, I am a few days into no contact after we ended things for about the 8th time. I find myself longing for a text or call from him, but know that I only want it for validation, for that familiar feeling and still find myself hoping for that fairytale ending.
Any advice on how to not text, how to avoid the feeling of lonely, how to avoid feeling nostalgic, how to stay busy? I know I will see him as we work in the same building from time to time, so how can I avoid melting at the site of him and staying strong in no contact?
I dated a guy once who told me one of the reasons he broke up with his ex of 4 years was because she dated a person of different color 10 years before he met her. What?! I thought he was an idiot at the time but brushed it aside. My exhusband told me I was ‘too’ American (he’s from Europe was also cheating on me with a chick in Asia), hello you were in USA when you met me what did you expect. Of course he didnt remember saying that later when he was trying to get me back. Another guy two months into dating told me I didnt show enough cleavage(I showed the same amount as when he met me and he was all over me constantly) and that I wasnt ambitious enough (not true, I’ve also been broken up with for being too ambitious).
Looking back now it is all quite comical.
People make any illogical excuse to break up, but don’t actually want to do the breaking. So they abuse you until you do the dirty work. My ex alternately called me too controlling and too wishy-washy. How does that work? She accused me of being too poor, but she was actually broke, and in debt. I wasn’t rich but I had more than her. I finally realized she couldn’t face her confusion about who she was and what she wanted so she created flaws to justify not being together. But she wouldn’t break up!
That is so true j d! Years ago, when I was just starting out, like a lot of people I had a car that was a few years old. The guy I was dating at the time used to make fun of it all the time and say it was embarassing. His car was…oh. Wait. He didn’t have one. You are so well rid of that woman!
@Australia
This blog IS chock-full of invaluable insight and advice from Natalie (and many posters) on NC, as well as Nat’s NC book (new one is out at the end of this month!)
Try rummaging through the archive, read about NC (again?), and perhaps purchase Nat’s new NC book?
Although, from what I hear from your various postings, you are continually flip-flapping, getting high here and there, never truly committing to putting a FINAL STOP to your AC ‘high’ (and debilitating) supply.
No amount of advice can make you change the status-quo, if you don’t heed and put that advice into ‘practice’ (eg. change your number/ delete his, which should immediately stop the urge to text/call, block his email etc etc).
As Nat so eloquently wrote: Get out of your ‘uncomfortable comfort zone’.
I think you’ll be truly serious about NC (and stick to it) when your gut finally screams ENOUGH ALREADY.
Not a second before (or more advice).
Do the work.
Good luck.
Ps. The REAL issue is NOT (the quite insignificant, fantasy-fueled image of) him but your low self-esteem, denial, lack of self-nurture, inability to take care of your emotional needs etc .. That’s where the REAL work is. Your invaluable energy is wasted elsewhere, unfortunately.
Aussie – you’re going to feel lonely and in need of validation. Treat this like you’re a patient in a detox facility, trying to get off smack. I don’t want to trivialise drug addiction, but we all know that there is something intensely addictive and harmful about these relationships. So it’s not how you stay busy – I could give you lists of the usuals (a new passion, journalling, exercise, friends, entertainment, travel, a new responsibility at work) – really. It’s your attitude towards being busy. In fact, a lot of this is about NOT being busy, but about gently facing who he was and what your relationship was, and then cleaning your mind out by letting go of it (through meditation, prayer, Yoga or whatever). You just can’t avoid some amount of pain. But then once you’ve seen it all, be done with it. Don’t thrash about. As for seeing him, try visualising yourself being calm and detached, rather than falling apart. It will help. You can’t avoid a bad response, but you’d be served by only focusing on a healthy one.
Australia
There is no fairy tale where the prince and princess break up eight times and then live happily ever after. That ship has sailed.
Australia,
As a couple of posters have already pointed out, you cannot avoid feeling lonely or nostalgic, or whatever other feelings might come up. In fact, for most of us on this site, I would say that wanting to avoid our feelings may be exactly why we distract ourselves with these kinds of relationships in the first place.
It might be tough to face those feelings, but there is a benefit to it. You will learn that you can get through them and it will teach you that you have the strength to make it through, and those feelings won’t be quite as scary the next go round, and you will eventually build an inner strength to walk away from unhealthy relationships, because you will have learned to stand on your own.
Thank you thank you. All your words have helped tremendously. They pop into my head at the perfect moment and help me stay strong.
And it further occurs to me – in relation to my earlier post – that this form of highly personalised and somewhat masturbatory future-faking is Cupid’s way of warning you:
‘This person does not want to deal with THEIR OWN relationship issues and hangups in the here-and-now. Instead, they are waiting for the Perfect Person to come along, who will fix everything and give them an effortless free ride to bliss, sunsets and happily-ever-after.’
The appropriate response here, I think, is to avoid any sudden movements and then try and make it to the treeline for your own self-preservation.
The other appropriate response is to examine yourself closely to make sure you aren’t falling into this category yourself!
This is gold.
“that this form of highly personalised and somewhat masturbatory future-faking is Cupid’s way of warning you”
Wow, PJM…you hit the nail on the head.
You just turned the light bulb on in my brain! It’s kinda like when we pick partners who we know have problems that make us incompatible, unconsciously or otherwise, so we can focus on theirs instead of worrying about and fixing our own. We try to trick ourselves into believing that things will miraculously work out when they never do. It’s the same thing that these guys do when they drag out a relationship when they knew there was a compatibility issue from the start…
Yes Lia, when I came to understand my role in the whole EUM dance I began to look at my own pattern in all the past EUMs that chanced their arm with me and I got hooked. It was actually very similar when I broke it down. Every single one I fell for had the exact same characteristics: hard to get, good looking, funny/charming, assertive/flirty, had multiple girls on the go, outright said they didn’t want to get married, mostly tall, athletic, not happy in their current or past relationships with other women. When I really started to look at my own responsiblity in these relationships it became blaringly obvious I was using these guys to try to win something that was to most everyone else, unwinnable. If I could do that I MUST be special, lovable, amazing woman. But it was of course a never ending defeat and a reinforcement of what my true beliefs were about myself… that I wasn’t good enough, that I wasn’t lovable, that something was wrong with me. Once I changed that core belief model (which took some time) then and only then was I able to free myself from these awful cycles and absolutely reject any man than even smelled of EU quickly, easily, and with a smile.
Did we by any chance date the same idiot??? This is my ex to a T! And to say that now his new gf who was an ex friend of mine thinks he’s the best thing after sliced bread. I wonder when karma will bite their asses if at all!
Karina, I remember what you said about these two in previous comments and, from where I’m sitting, their relationship isn’t as rosy as it seems. She’s singing his praises on her blog and he’s a total jackass? That’s not love, that’s freakin’ Stockholm Syndrome. Also, people in love have better things to do than snipe at their partner’s ex. My advice is, don’t worry about these two and how things work out for them/what they are saying about or to you. As my Dad likes to say, “It will all come out in the wash.”
There was a guy that fits to a “T” what you are talking about. He considered himself an atheist, but he always hooked up with Christians and then belittled their values. I found this intriguing, but after reading your blog, I guess this was a way for him not to commit. It would have made more sense for him to be with someone that had similar core values as he.
Shannon D –
I think, again, that the layman’s term for this is a ‘bully’. I work with someone like this: it’s like they’re magnetically attracted to ‘targets’.
It’s really helpful to get some background on a person where you can.
He never told me I wasn’t ‘enough this or too much that’. He didn’t need to. My gut instinct sniffed the ‘rejection’ a mile off and his passive aggressive ‘actions’ throughout our sordid non-relationship spoke a thousand words. He made me feel that I wasn’t good enough, with his constant ambiguous behaviour (push/pull). That he was mostly attracted to blondes/blue eyes, that brunettes with brown eyes (aka me) left him cold… And yes, he kept mentioning an ex, from a century ago, that ‘she had a perfect body’, how agile, how intelligent , how crazy about her he was (still obsessed obviously) etc..
Of course I stayed longer that I should have (months thankfully, not years). It seems his constant rejection kept me locked in attempts to prove him wrong, to feel validated, to be the brunette exception to his aryan rule..
Why? Because I believed him.
In fact, I believed him before I even met him.
“In fact, I believed him before I even met him.”
Oh my, that’s so true. I’m amazed there are other guys who do this. I thought I was the only one who met these guys.
ARRRGH. I have had several guys who have told me their ideal woman was slim, brunette, fair-skinned, dark-eyed. Here I am, a bodacious curvy blue-eyed blonde. And yet they were dating me. Go figure.
It’s all just belittling others to make themselves feel special, really.
I too also had the you didnt have cellulite when we first met ( 13 years later ) . My you have big feet ( recent one) Don’t like the fact that your ex was mixed race ( He knew that 13 years ago too) and i was the tallest girl he had ever dated.. He likes them small and petite so he can throw them around the bedroom. The last statement was said in front of my friends whom he was meeting for the first time. As you can imagine they didnt like him from the get go… Well he is now married to a petite lady with small feet who obviously hasn’t dated a non white person. Do i care… ? not a jot the guy was a narcissitic tit
Love this post.
Having a dysfunctional family and deducing as a child that it was my fault that my parents did not think I was good enough – not pretty, thin, classy, sweet and demure, good at school, prepared me well for a bunch of EU. You want love that you never really had, but you seek it from people who can’t give you what you never received in the first place and whose ways of treating you are vaguely familiar.
I laughed when a guy told me when our relationship was becoming “ too challenging” when I refused to play his game . I thought “ what a twat ! “ instead of running after him like a crazy woman and bending myself like a pretzel for him in a futile attempt to find me good enough.
Ladies,
what if they say they don’t want (more) kids and yet keep seeing women that want to settle down and have kids?
If it’s a pattern, then I would think it’s thier way of making sure they have an out when those new relationships begin to grow old or they have to step up to the plate committment wise.
I couldn’t agree more.
It’s so strange how I always get something out of reading these posts, regardless of whether or not they directly relate to me…This morning I was doing some reflecting and this post kinda reinforced some of the thoughts that I was having. I’ve never been in the position of having someone tell me that they couldn’t be with me because of differences of age/religion/ethnicity/ect., but I did wait around for someone to change what I perceived as non negotiable character flaws from the start. When we were friends I was able to overlook them, but for a relationship they simply would not do.
So maybe I was the one making an unrealistic request, as I continued to reduce myself and lower my expectations to try to make it work, it became painfully clear that things would never work as they were. And it really is unfair to place the expectation of change on someone else, especially if that person was that way when you met them. That too I had to find out the hard way. In the end, I found that no matter how hard I tried, that little voice in the back of my head never went away. As a Godly woman, I’ve learned that whatever He wants me to have, He will give to me. And if I have to reduce myself to a lesser version of who I was created to be, and ignore key values and principles that I hold, then that is His way of letting me know that person is not for me. But even if you’re not a religious person, we all have standards and values that no amount of coercion will ever change. It’s simply a matter of being in touch with them and maintaining that connection, and recognizing when you’re heart is telling you to let go. It was when I finally stopped fighting myself that I began to realize how true that really was.
Spot on with your post. Not sure if you were leaning in that direction with it though LOL, but my thoughts were already leaning in that direction and I somehow plucked that from it. Thanks!
I get a lot out of posts that don’t relate to me directly, like this one. I’ve been over the EU ex for a while but still learn things here about relationships that will be useful in the future.
Lia,
What you said really hit home with me…
… as I continued to reduce myself and lower my expectations to try to make it work, it became painfully clear that things would never work as they were.
Who was I really trying to convince, him or me?
…we all have standards and values that no amount of coercion will ever change. It’s simply a matter of being in touch with them and maintaining that connection, and recognizing when you’re heart is telling you to let go. It was when I finally stopped fighting myself that I began to realize how true that really was.
It really hurts alot, but I finally realized staying in it and avoiding what I really wanted or that I did matter is where the real struggle was. It wouldn’t matter if I was everything he wanted, the fact remained there was never going to be a commitment on either side and neither of us was ever going to change. I simply could not or would not accept who he and I REALLY were.
What do you think these people criticise others when they have their own glaringly obvious to everyone imperfections that they should firstly deal with think in their head? Do you think they are trying to help with their criticism? Do you think they have low self esteem? Do you think they have too high self-esteem? Do you think someone criticised them in the past?
Lavender,
It may have a lot to do with their own lack of self-esteem. For whatever reason, I don’t think my last ex liked himself at all deep down, even though he made everything about him in our relationship to the point where in the end I had simply become lost in it all. By finding fault with me and blaming everyone else but himself for his problems, he was actually trying to big himself up in an attempt to feel better about himself and his own perceived shortcomings.
Also, pertaining to Natalie’s main subject in this post, I definitely think my ex was continually moving the goalposts of what kind of “perfect” woman he was searching for so that he would never actually find her and have to commit to her. He moaned to me a lot about how his previous g/f “tried to take over his life and put him in a cage”, but when he broke up with me he accused me of being distant and uninterested in him because I didn’t kick up a fuss about him going away for 3 months to play with aeroplanes in Argentina (actually, I encouraged him to do it to achieve his dreams). I don’t know his previous ex, so I don’t know if she truly is the opposite of me – but the point is that he doesn’t really know *what* he is looking for in a perfect partner. As Fearless said, way up in this comments thread, “no-one is what he’s looking for because he’s not actually looking for anyone”. He doesn’t really want to be tied down and put in that cage he fears so much. I think he only wants a partner to be a distraction from his own issues. But then again, as Natalie has said in other posts, we tend to choose partners who reflect ourselves in some way – and looking back at it now I feel sure that is a big reason why I was in that relationship too.
RadioGirl – great explanation!
Thanks, Lavender. I just recently heard some further undeniable proof that my last ex isn’t seriously interested in a committed relationship. Apparently, he’s now joined one of those online “dating” sites to for married people to have affairs with each other! And he’s not even in any kind of relationship himself at the moment, so he’s not even being “honest” on there!! Not the actions of someone who respects other people (or himself, for that matter), or who is truly looking for a long-term commitment. Bleargh! The more I hear about him the more I’m grateful to be away from him.
I only just discovered this blog but wish I had found it sooner! It has helped me SO much!!
My bf of five yrs would always talk of the future – our kids, what they would look like, what school they would go to etc etc, but stall taking any action towards said future because I have a different nationality! Not new info after 5 yrs!?!
Cut a long story short, I now find he has been, in his words, “recently married”. This he had the courtesy to email me because his wife found out and he wants to save his ‘new’ marriage. I have no idea when in these five years he dated someone else, proposed to and married her, all the while keeping up the charade with me. But I read this post and think the signs were always there, if only I had the sense to see them for what they were. Once I finish crying (not for him but for those precious yrs between 25 and 30!), I hope to be stronger and smarter.
Reggie every time I think I’ve heard it all, another one is thrown out there. Are you saying while he was dating you, he dated someone else and then got married and the whole bit all while dating you? People are insane, I would count his new wife as the unlucky one not you. I dont know why these types of people marry some and not others but I can tell you their behavior doesnt usually change. My ex hus dated a girl for 8 years, then met me right after they broke up and we married a year later. She was devastated, I can personally attest to the fact that he eventually started treating me the same way he had treated her. Sometimes I think they get married just to prove to themselves that they can, but were never really into the commitment thing to begin with. This is the man who said I was ‘too’ American as he was explaining why he cheated on me. I have hope that people can change but I think some are too far gone, they dont feel remorse for what they do, they dont see their part in it, they have convinced themselves that they are the good guys and that it is everyone elses fault.
Nat and ladies, this is so funny and so very, very timely – it’s a writer from The Frisky instant messaging with some dude she met online who feels that they can’t date because his conservative family might Google her and find the stuff she’s written about sex. I love how she keeps saying, “I don’t know what to tell you.” Notice he’s still all, “I’d like to ‘hang out’.” Oh no he did not.
Hope you enjoy!
Hahaha! So funny! If she were to give him a chance, fast forward to a few months from now: “Well, you knew I was never comfortable with you being a writer” or “Why can’t you write about something else?!”
thanks for sharing Natasha
Glad you liked it girl! 🙂 My favorite part was when he brought up how she wrote about liking to be called a certain name during “relations”, and said, “Now, personally I love that you love that and I would love to call you that.”
I thought, “I’m sure you would buddy, I’m sure you would.”
Your “a few months down the line” prediction was dead on haha!
“Now, personally I love that you love that and I would love to call you that.”
“I thought, “I’m sure you would buddy, I’m sure you would.”
Yes I though very same – sounds a bit creepy.
I enjoyed. That is EXACTLY my experience with these dudes who on the one hand find my colour, or my poems (also often about sex and fantasy and breakups!) exotic/erotic/nasty whatever, but they are only turned on because they come from some crazy repressed family. These guys are effectively saying: mommy and daddy still have a major hold on how I make my romantic choices, and once I’m done finding you a dirty/rebellious thrill, I’ll be able to dump you and feel like a “good boy” doing it. She was right. He was rude. She was too nice.
In my experience, this is what happens when you write about ANYTHING on the internet. I contribute to a political blog and write op-ed pieces about various issues, and I’m sure it’s scared off more than one guy when he’s Googled me.
I thought I was starting something up recently with a nice shy guy, but he’s disappeared on me: I haven’t seen him for 3 weeks and I sent a very brief ‘how are things’ email and haven’t had any response.
And when they disappear, I guess they’re not that into you, aren’t they. I just wish I hadn’t started liking this one!
@Mag – Totally agree! I got the sense that he’s a total weirdo. She flushed with a lot of class and very little fuss!
@PJM – Girl, try not to let it get you down. People disappear for all kinds of reasons and I’ve never heard of it being anything to do with the person they’re disappearing on. I have a lot of guy friends and, though it seems like this is the new norm in dating, only one of them has ever pulled that. Did it have anything to do with the girl? Nope. His commitment phobic ex-girlfriend called and wanted him back (for a whole six weeks). Oy, just oy.
natasha
translation:
“Your writing turns me on. I’d like to have sex with you. But I don’t approve of you so it can never be serious. I’m a good guy – look how honest I am. Now I’m going to insult you. Now I’m going to wind you up. I haven’t done anything wrong. ”
If he doesn’t like what she does, no need to date her. But he wants to “hang out”. We know what that means! It’s funny how annoyed they get when they’re not getting their way.
I feel sad that she was hurt, she doesn’t even know the guy. Maybe she should pay us a visit…
Your translation has me cracking up! That was my take on it too – what a prize this dude is. I’ve thought on many an occasion, “Homegirl! BR is for you!” She got the “chop” from an assclown earlier in the year and you would be amazed at some of the comments people wrote. They all appeared to be from other women and some were like, “Oh, you’re too neurotic, no wonder he left you.” to “Get over it. I’m sick of reading about this.” Nice. No wonder BR is the only blog I’ve ever felt compelled to write a comment on – none of that mallarky up in here!
@Natasha: Yeah, that’s horrible, but also very common. People tend to be very clueless. What might contribute to such reactions is that when we talk about our experiences, we often leave out the worst parts (amnesia anyone?).
This used to happen a lot when I talked about my abusive mother. Some people said: “What’s wrong with you? Yeah, your relationship with your mother is probably a little complicated, but you should be able to handle this as an adult!”
Well, I never mentioned her perversities, her daily death threats or how she regularly claimed I had a serious mental ilness (without ever taking me to a doctor!).
Amnesia is completely normal for abused children, and I think it’s often the same when we talk about abusive relationships. It’s the big picture that matters, not some isolated incidents. Us BR readers can often guess the big picture from such incidents, but many other people don’t get that.
Natasha
True, women PRIDE themselves on their ability to “influence” (ie manipulate and control) men. Unfortunately, the women don’t see that they’re losing out While they’re busy sexing him up, understanding him, cooking, being cool, not being needy, not arguing, not crying, not demanding anything, flattering him, being good company ..he is getting all his needs met for minimal/no effort.
How do I know this? I did it myself!
Natasha, thanks for the link, enlightening. Especially the comments people made to her. Its like they all needed BR, telling her she over reacted and stuff. She didnt, this guy was basically telling her that he’d like a shag but she wasnt good enough to bring home to mommy. I cant believe the women that thought he was being nice. He was a total jerk in the worst way, he tried to play it off like he was ‘honest’ which he was, but being honest about being an ahole doesnt award you the good guy stamp.
@EllyB – That is very, very true. I had an abusive boyfriend once and it took me, like, years to get the full story out to even my best friends! I’m so sorry about how your mother treated you – I have so much respect for people that are able to move past childhoods like that. You remind me of a good friend of mine who had a similar experience with a step-parent and she’s one of the strongest people I know. She’s also awesome, just like you 🙂
@Grace – Totally agree! The sense I got from a lot of the comments left during her break-up was “I’m ‘cool’, I ‘get over it’, I don’t complain – why can’t you do it too?” and, in some cases, when they shared their own experiences…they were being used. I’ve done the “cool” thing too – didn’t work out so well! It never pays to be cool if you’re actually dating a fool.
@sm- “he tried to play it off like he was ‘honest’ which he was, but being honest about being an ahole doesnt award you the good guy stamp.” That was absolutely hilarious and SO TRUE!!
@Natasha: Such a great link, thanks for posting! I have to admit I felt a little stomach ache when I read all this, as if it was MY mind he was trying to fuck with and not hers.
I’m so glad there is BR and all the support from Nat and other people here! Helps putting things back into place whenever I start believing this stomach ache is kind of “my mental health issue”, when in fact it’s a symptom of poisioning (by a toxic person) and it’s time to stop drinking the poison!
“Of course I stayed longer that I should have (months thankfully, not years). It seems his constant rejection kept me locked in attempts to prove him wrong, to feel validated, to be the brunette exception to his aryan rule..”
Last Friday, I finally kicked my EUM to the curb. For a year and a half, I was never told outright that I wasn’t good enough, but it was lots of little petty remarks and comparisons:
1.His ex wife was ‘spectacular’ looking (which apparently happened AFTER she dumped him)
2.His previous GF’s were size 6 or so (I’m a size 10)
3. My clothes weren’t good enough: He thought I should be getting designer fashions because they were higher quality. He knows I’m a single mom of two who gets no child support. He thought he had to ‘teach’ me what quality garments were. Dude, I studied apparel design at art school. I think I know what a quality garment is.
4. Other women he knew were ‘sexy’, ‘hot’, ‘beautiful’, ‘gorgeous’… I was “nice to him”.
5. My lack of money meant that it would be more difficult for us to travel. Hell, I should really forget about travelling altogether…Please see my financial status in #3.
6. We could never really live together because there was no room for my children (the ones I’ve had for 19 years).
7. I was told by EUM that I needed to lose 10 lbs or drop a dress size in order to keep him happy (he literally said, “Do it for me”.). NEVER MIND that he is 50 lbs. overweight himself.
But all in all, I WAS good enough to be there when he needed me emotionally and to assuage loneliness on the weekends he didnt’ have his kids. Oh, and did I mention he didn’t have any friends?
I dated a guy exactly like this. Said basically the same things and I justified it but when I read someone else living it I think woah that’s bad. You are so much better than that.
@tracy: I’m sorry for you, but this is all too common. Did you date the same guy I was dating when I was 20?
He told me I should drop about 40 pounds (I was dress size “medium” back then, but apparently he preferred anorectics), wear only high heels (because I “wasn’t tall enough”), get tatoos and piercings for him (which I hate – and he hadn’t any of those on his own body either!), dye my hair for him, get wall-too-wall-carpet in my room (because he didn’t like bare floors – I did!) and give him BJs all the time (which I hated). His own looks were fairly average, not bad, but not remarkable at all.
Needless to say, he also had this “gorgeous”, “super-sexy”, “super-exciting” ex (who “didn’t make such a fuss” about the sexual activities he required).
I dumped him after a few months, but after that, I felt “guilty” (!!!) for doing this. I thought a “good” woman would have done all those things for a man! Needless to say, he made me hate my looks, too.
EllyB, just when I think I’ve seen and heard it all, I find out that there’s a dude who hated on his girlfriend’s flooring. FLOORING. If it makes you feel any better, the dude I dated a few years ago that I mentioned in another comment on here because he had a problem with my car, once remarked that my laptop was too old. In fact, he referred to me as, “My little hobo with her old computer.” This assclown was blubbering like it was the greatest tragedy of his life when I dumped him.
@Natasha: I never saw it that way, but you are right, it’s hilarious!
ROHFL (Rolling On the Hardwood Floor Laughing)
Damn straight EllyB!! It’s definitely the type of thing it takes a few years to have a good laugh about, but when you really think about it, these guys are absurd. In my case, the guy was verrrrry concerned with his “image”. Did he think that the people he respects and admires were going to band together, break into my apartment, catch sight of my 3-year-old laptop and shun him?! I mean, reaaaaaaaaallly?! What a couple of idiots.
Oh my gosh, is this the guy I have been dating? (I am in the UK tho!)
His ex looked like Carla from Coronation Street (overseas you can google her)
I shouldn’t shop in Primark as ‘he has an image to keep up’ (but he bought jeans for £10 and harped on about the value! personally I don’t give a damn about labels ( its not what you wear its how you wear it!!)
Passing a woman in the street who was dressed for the office remarked.. ‘see thats how women should dress’ even though before I had children and worked in an office I was just like that!
And the clincher.. he didn’t think he could be with me because I had children.. (yep the same ones I showed up with)
I wish I had found this blog years ago, !!
Many moons ago, I had a guy ( a PhD psychologist!) tell me he had to break up with me because I came from a seriously damaged family. At the time, I had been estranged from the aforementioned family for almost a decade, was (and still am) the only member of my family to graduate high school, ever, had earned two college degrees in the sciences, raised a brother starting at age 17, and worked a job in academic research. This was after being in a relationship for three years. Later, it came out that he was ashamed of me for not having a PhD like he did. Flush!
This topic is really reflecting my life. I dated someone who said I wasn’t educated enough for him, just like you, cause his ex had a PhD and I didn’t. I had two degrees anyway and like you was the first person in my entire family to graduate high school. Only difference is the guy I dated wasn’t more educated than me, he had one degree. I found the whole thing disgusting when I realised, cause there are people who can’t have an education at all and then there is him being so arrogant.
I would love to know why they both thought the high education was so important.
Hey miskwa – I have a PhD, and that scares guys off: too educated, you see.
Let’s face it. We can’t win!
@PJM: They fire whatever missile they can find. Too smart, too stupid, too poor, too rich, too dependent, too independent, too old, too young…
It’s very common, and so very nasty. Unfortunately, many “women’s” (sorry, I can’t believe they are “ours” anymore) magazines and other media reinforce those views. Probably because insecure people buy more products and subscriptions (basically it boils down to the same motivations that drive ACs).
I’ve been down that slippery slope. I used to believe I was too smart, too successfull, too independent, too old (I used to believe that since I was 24) and not chic enough (I don’t look bad, but I wear neither heels nor nail polish and little makeup).
It’s very revealing that other ladies have been accused of the opposite of some of the things that made me self-conscious.
All part of the EU ambivalence, ladies, and their inability to choose any one thing/choice/option and stick with it.
Oh, I forgot to mention that the waste-of-space-ex I described above also hinted that he didn’t like my field of study at college, because you could get high-paying jobs with my degree. He told me that his “gorgeous” ex focused on something completely unprofitable, and that her approach to education was so much more charming than mine.
After all, he was the one who should earn all the money later in life, and not his silly little GF/wife! He made that pretty clear.
Btw., he didn’t do very well academically.
Yuck. What a loser.
Very enlightening post and replies. My first ex said “If only you were 10 years older.” A few months later we started dating which turned into 4 years. Just before we broke up he moaned “why can’t you be more like your sister.” she’s 3 years my junior. Then 4 months passed and he announced “I’m getting married to a woman who reminds me of you.” ick.
“some people set you up to fail by putting it all on you to galvanise them into changing their values.”
THIS!! My Ex is STILL trying to convince me that he finds me attractive while I can SEE the internal struggle right there on his face. I am the first white woman he has ever dated (He’s African) and I know for a fact what he finds attractive is NOT an older white woman. He has lied to himself for so long about what he wants that he halfway believes it. He is also convinced that he is NOT lazy, irresponsible, dishonest, moody and a boundary breaking BASTARD who could charm the birds from the sky. He had enlisted me as some kind of mother/jailer/lifeguard/golden ticket figure and once I got tired of babying him and kicked him out, he lost his shit and REALLY showed his ass. Ugh.
SM,
I never in my wildest dreams thought he could be the scumbag he obviously is. Yes, while I was “there” for him through his work worries, being supportive of the things he wanted, he got married, continued being married and dating me all at the same time! If he hadn’t been caught I don’t think he would ever have told me. I still don’t know when he married, who it is, how his wife found out. Nothing but an email that says “I should have told you a long time ago. I know it is unfair and undeserved to my wife and to you. She is a great woman and was completely blindsided by this, as you are.. I hope you can heal in a way that is not harmful..I wish you the best.” WTF??! Five years, one email wishing me the best. How are there people like this in the world??
As I read more posts here I realize I should have had stronger boundaries, less belief in the fact that “we were special” and kept my eyes wide open. But this epiphany comes five years too late, and I feel SO cheated!! While my world’s been turned upside down, his life carries on.
Reggie, this is an awful story. What a cheating, lying scumbag. These guys have no idea of the pain they cause; they think they can just send a “nice” email as a get out of jail free card cos it shows how remorseful and considerate they “really” are. My arse! Who does he think he’s kidding (other than himself). It’s easier said than done (god, don’t I know it), but try to focus on what a lucky escape you have really had – he is a rotter; he is not for you; the rest of your crap-free life is out there waiting for you and there is a guy who is better suited to you out there too.
This is one of the most worst cases l have heared
@Fearless : Today is the first day of the rest of my crap-free life!! =) . Thank you for your comments, feels good knowing there are ppl out there who’ve survived stuff like this.
Its been 5 days, got my act together and went to work today, barring the occasional breakdown, I think I’m doing okay.
Reggie, Good for you! You must be terribly hurt but rest assured this man is *not* the man for you – and not because you are not good enough for him (quite the reverse) but because you are way too good for him and he is not, nowhere near it, good enough for you! It helps me always to remember that the problem with my ‘relationship’ with the ex EUM was that I was desperately trying to convince myself that he was good enough for me – but he simply wasn’t good enough for me and I have my very best days (really good days) when I know it was me who was too good for him. I think it would help all of us who are struggling to remind ourselves that it is not us who are not good enough – it’s him.
@Reggie, I was shocked when I read your post. Glad to hear you got back to work and are with us on BR. I know it may not feel like it yet but you are one fortunate lady. His new wife, not so much. She needs to find BR and fast! You gotta keep chanting Natasha’s phrase “Gay kaken afen yam.” (for the uninitiated, that means, “Go sh*t in a lake.”).” I have to remember to be careful when I read BR. I snarfed my ice tea all over the computer, again.
@Fearless, yes, you were too good for him. Congrats on unloading his research project baggage. He owes you big time. If he ever tries to “collect”, tell him to go s**t in a lake!
@Natasha, that one will stick with me forever. I also checked out the site you posted and it took every ounce of my strength no to reply to some of those comments with your saying. Thanks for posting it. It’s a good reminder to stick with BR. I loved that she posted the IM conversation with online guy. She was good enough to shag. Eyes wide open now.
Same here. The EUM had a bachelor’s, his parents paid his way, I had two master’s that I did on my own, and both to improve my standing at work. BUT, the ex had a Ph.D…even though he and her parents paid for it, and I worked full time while I got both my degrees.
Reggie, as an afterthought, you say you know nothing about the how when, where and who of this marriage… I could be way wrong but it makes me wonder if he was maybe married all along (I mean before you met him – not that it makes any real difference – just a thought).
@Fearless: The same thought’s been running through my head ever since I found out. Was it all planned right from the start? He must’ve had practice!! We had a fairytale beginning – met at a 15th century fort. The scumbag used to talk about how we’d tell our grandkids our story. My ‘prince’ sure turned out to be a big fugly toad!! I’ve been thinking about actually hiring a PI to check on him (I used to think trust is key in a relationship, but after this confidence trick I think trust and VERIFY is more imp). But even if I find out stuff about his alleged “recent” marriage, how does it change the end result? Will there be too many things to get over? Will I compare myself to his wife? Should I get his wife’s email and fwd all his loving, sexual emails? Something tells me its unhealthy. The break’s been made, I should keep it clean. But God! I want him to hurt just a little bit.
Nothing changes the end result, Reggie. You have enough information to know he’s a snake. If it was me and it was bothering me (and this isn’t advice or recommended in any way) I’d have been through the records of births, deaths and marriages by now! That’s just me though – nutter. I don’t say it’d be a good thing tho’, but I know I’d be doing it. But one question often troubles another and another, so if you can sit on it’s probably best in the long run; sooner or later you won’t care.
I agree with Fearless, Reggie – there’s no point in doing any further investigation now that you already have more than enough evidence of his covert and disrespectful behaviour. I’m ashamed to admit that, while my EUM was away in South America for 3 months last winter, I logged into his e-mails and FB messages – something I’m not proud of, but I acted on a gut feeling that he wasn’t trustworthy any more. While this did confirm my worst fears that he was being emotionally unfaithful to me with several women (including his previous girlfriend), unfortunately it opened a Pandora’s Box of nasty things. I couldn’t stop looking, and read all his romantic overtures of continuing love for his ex, how he had never got over her, how he had missed another of the women, how “the RadioGirl situation is not as good as it could be”, and how we would “have to do better if it is going to work” (news to me as he’d always said we were good together!), how one of the women had “fallen for him all over again” etc etc. I tortured myself for the whole 3 months and was such a wreck by the time I joined him there that I didn’t even have the wherewithal to confront him about it, as I knew whatever he said would be a lousy excuse and that we were finished anyway. I’m glad in hindsight that I found out what he was really like, but it served me right in a way that I became so devastated by what I was reading. I hope I never, ever get into a situation like that again. Curiosity can indeed kill the cat…
Please don’t put any more of your energy into him now it’s over, Reggie – believe me, it’s the emotional equivalent of throwing good money after bad and no good can come out of it at all for you.
Yes Radio girl; it’s tempting to snoop when you know you’re with someone you can’t trust; but we doubt ourselves. Really the fact that we have no trust should really be enough to finish it off – unfortunately it’s not; all that “doubt” is the driving factor; we want to be sure hat we are not wrongly distrusting of him (we never are!)
I think these things like Reggie’s man of five years telling her he was ‘recently married’ are best dealt with right away and not sat upon. When I have dealt with those types of situations (when I have been brushed off with a half-truth) I have been so shocked at the half-truth that I haven’t dealt with the obvious questions right there and then – they come to me only later once I have processed the information I have; you realise you should have demanded the whole-truth from him right there and then instead of letting him palm you off with some half-truth bullshit and then walk off, i.e. the moment to ask – and expect to be told – when this marriage took place has in many ways past and to follow it up later as something of an ‘afterthought’ starts to look a little bit barking.
For your own thing Radio, in hindsight, you should never have boarded that plane on the grounds that you’d already discovered he wasn’t worth the trip (we’ve all done it tho’ – me too – loads of times)
RadioGirl and Fearless: I hear what you guys are saying. Don’t want to become obsessed with HIS life, should focus on mine. Although I must confess I’ve been googling him like mad these days trying to figure out if there was a wedding announcement anywhere – zilch! Can’t wait for the day I won’t give a damn!
Fearless: I think it would be much better getting the whole truth, might even give a sense of closure. Give me an idea of what happened and when. Right now its like being hit by a truck when I’m fast asleep in bed! But then, if these guys were capable of being that upfront they wouldn’t be the scumbags they are. I wrote him when I got the email (cellphone was turned off, surprise!!) to tell him he was a sick bastard and asked WHEN he got married – got no answer. In any case, I wouldn’t have believed anything he said. I think the email was for the benefit of his wife – it emphasised her pain, how much he loved her, wanted to make it work. The creep wasn’t in the least bit remorseful. He is superbly image conscious and I can imagine how the thought of being labelled “divorced” would have rattled him. BAH!! I will not try to understand what and how and why he did all this. My head isn’t screwed up enough to understand his brain, but I am reflecting on what I can do better next time around (IF there is a next time! How do people have the courage to give it another shot after an experience like this?).
Reggie, I have a horrible feeling there’s maybe a reason why you can’t find any “recent” marriage announcements.
It’s dreadful – while it was good for him to fandango with you it was also good for him to be suffering from ‘wife amnesia’ and now he’s been cured you’re supposed to have caught the same disease (be good if you could, but not v. likely!) In fact it’d be good if you (like him) could now have total wipeout memory loss of the entire relationship (in your case five years worth). Where they get the brass neck to behave this way I will never fathom.
As I said, without a major discussion about the rights and wrongs of it all and potential problems, of which I’m well aware, if it was me I’d want to know because it would fester away with me and I’d never be able to put it to bed otherwise. But I’d be v. careful about getting caught up in a spiral, so I’d have one single objective and I’d do it fast -quickest way I could, I’d check the public records at the registry of marriages – and I’d go further back than you think. But it’s all academic as they say… but at least you’d know and then you can deal with moving past it. I am sorry for your pain.
Fearless: I would love to believe that he made up a wife just to be rid of me. Don’t know on what planet that would be considered “better”, but at least I wouldn’t have to deal with having been made a complete fool of for so many years.
Access to marriage records is restricted by law so I cannot go and check when he got married. The only option is to hire a professional – don’t know if I should do that. I want to let go. I don’t want to think of him or of the last five years. Wish I could just wipe it all off. But there are memories about everything!! From breakfast cereal to books on my shelves.
It’s been one week. Think I fell off the wagon today, and I was doing so well too! I’m really glad I found BR. It has helped me hang on to sanity. Thank you!!
My ex EUM always said: “Every woman i’ve been with has a ‘thing’. I wish i could just meet a girl and say ‘this is my girlfriend'”. When i asked him to elaborate, he said every girl had something about them that made him think he couldn’t be with them. He dated a gorgeous Brazilian girl, but she wanted to settle down and have kids. Another girl wanted a guy who was really rich (he wasn’t). Another was too clingy and wanted to spend every minute of the day with him. I don’t think it occured to him that the problem was HIM!! My ‘thing’ was – ‘i think you want more than i can give you’. I guess actions really do speak louder than words, because i spent the entire time telling him i didn’t want a relationship (i thought i was sooooo clever).
On the other hand he would always say ‘i have nothing to offer anyone’ (too bloody right, pal!). Excuses, excuses. He had all the bases covered.
When someone doesn’t want to do something, they will find every reason in the world not to. I have a friend who wants to lose weight and asked my advice on how i stay slim. I gave her all my helpful hints and she had a counter argument for each and every one of them. I ended up getting impatient and telling her ‘someone coming along and waving a magic wand is not an option, you have to actually DO something!’. I guess the question we need to ask ourselves is: do we actually want what we say we want? Or would we be overwhelmed and unable to cope if we were given what we asked for?
Minky
Oh yes, been there with complainers. I think they are just trying to justify their position (poor diet, debt, boyfriend problems). I offer helpful hints (like “you don’t need three mobile phone contracts” – true example) and they carry on regardless. I’m thinking “why have you bent my ear about this every day for x months if you’re not looking for solutions?” To bring this back to topic – the EUs don’t want a solution, any thing from the colour of your hair to where you live is “a problem”. It helps them to maintain the status quo . Who knows why, it doesn’t even make them happy. But, hey, I did it myself for years. As commented by others – it’s the “comfortable uncomfortable”.
Grace, I am so glad you said this cos it helps me to verbalise my feelings about a current situation:
“I’m thinking “why have you bent my ear about this every day for x months if you’re not looking for solutions?”
Someone very close to me has stopped talking to me cos I’ve been offering ‘solutions’ (BR style) to her relationship problems that she doesn’t want to hear – I’ve had my ear bent about these problems for over a decade – for hours at time (same identical problems, same identical issues… on and on; it’s like ground-hog day). I realise my ‘advice’ has really annoyed her and have decided to stop offering any response, but I think the damage seems to be done – she’s not calling me or talking to me at all – I’m being avoided because I am a pain in neck (partly true! but not that she hasn’t been a pain in the neck busting my head churning out the same relationship issues at me for years! – I just listened and quietly fumed.
Anyway… maybe as much as these people come up with the very dubious “reason(s)” why they need to get *out* of the relationship or not take it to the next level, it’s the same deal when we churn out a similar very dubious “reason(s)” for staying *in* a poor relationship. What I’m saying is I think a lot of us are guilty of the same problem highlighted in this current blog – in reverse! For that person close to me, she cannot do anything at all to help herself or deal with the problem in any way at all because in the current economic climate she has decided that ‘they wouldn’t be able to sell the house’, ergo there is no solution. so she is “trapped” and they have to continue as they are (and continue to moan about it – forever!).
Fearless
When I gave this BR advice to a colleague/friend:
“You can’t break up with someone to make them chase after you. If you really want to get back together with him, take a risk and speak to him properly. Otherwise leave him alone”.
Not heard a peep since!
Compare and contrast with:
“Give him some time to miss you … leave it for a few weeks and contact him … send him a text … if he cared about you, he would try to make up with you … check his facebook .. email him ”
I am CONSTANTLY overhearing aforementioned colleague having this conversation with various people now she’s given up on me. The really don’t want a solution but, yes, we’ve been there ourselves.
Grace,
I totally agree: “the EUs don’t want a solution”. I think some people are unhappy, but don’t want to have to do anything about it, so they blame things they know can’t be changed. The ‘comfortable uncomfortable’, indeed. I also think some people are defined by the fact that their life is messed up, or that they’re ‘misunderstood’, or depressed. I have a friend who isn’t happy unless she’s complaining about something – i had to distance myself because the negativity was becoming too much.
I think i used to be a little like this myself. I would talk about what i wanted, but then come up with a million reasons why i couldn’t have it. I realise now that it’s because i was afraid to try, afraid to fail, afraid to get hurt. It’s true that doing what scares you and not making excuses is the path to happiness. As the famous shoe brand says: JUST DO IT! 🙂 Speaking of which, i need to go and buy a protable mosquito net for my travels!
Minky,
Your comments resonate with me so much they’re playing a tune! You’re so right about some people being defined by their messed-up lives – my ex is a prime example of this. He even relished complaining about some of his “misfortunes” on our first date (massive red flag) – and this also served the purpose of being his One Time In Band Camp story to tug at my Florence Nightingale sympathies. By the end of our year together, he said I wasn’t being “up” enough for him – hardly surprising after 12 months of listening to him whingeing for Britain and telling me how depressed he was about all his largely self-made woes! If he ever actually followed the advice that I (and others) gave him to sort out his life, he wouldn’t have anything much left to say…
I’m still struggling a little with feeling afraid to try, fail and get hurt, but am now aware of having always been a bit like that (mostly a lack of self-confidence), and feeling inspired by people like your good self here on BR to take a deep breath and plunge into doing the enjoyable things I’m starting to be drawn towards. This includes booking onto a singles holiday to somewhere interesting, which I’ve never done before. The thought of going away with a bunch of strangers feels really daunting, but as you say “doing what scares you and not making excuses is the path to happiness”. And “JUST DO IT” is going on a post-it note right by my front door to provide inspiration as I set off from home every day.
Have a fabulous time on your travels, Minky, you must be going somewhere exotic if you need to take a portable mosquito net! 🙂
“When someone doesn’t want to do something, they will find every reason in the world not to.”
Absolutely. We need to recognise the difference between an ‘excuse’ and a ‘reason’. When these guys come up with all the supposed ‘faults’ we have always had which (supposedly) now make it impossible to him to have a committed relationshp with us, these are excuses not reasons; if they were genuine reasons he wouldn’t have been ‘dating’ us in the first place.
It is really important that we don’t take it personally and allow our self-esteem to take a beating over it – there is nothing personal about it; there isn’t a real problem – he’s just clutching at straws and making one up so he can feel he has done nothing wrong in leading us a merry dance – and then make it our fault (for being blonde, black, white, purple with white polka dots… whatever!).
In fact, on second thoughts, maybe it’s more that he wants out without either party having to take the blame, but especially him! Like this: ‘I can’t commit to a woman under five foot four inches tall – I always saw myself with a taller woman – so it’s not my fault that you don’t cut the mustard. And you can’t help being only five foot one and a half so it’s not your fault either, so don’t feel bad! The crucial thing here is that there’s nothing you can do to fix the unfixable excuse I’ve come up with so you can’t even argue with me about it (horrah! – no argument – this is easy), what you can do is just trundle off now and wish you were taller so you could have won the big prize… oh, and also feel like a midget for the rest of your life.
This made me chuckle! You’re so right and i didn’t think of the passsive aggressive narture of it. The fact that no one is to ‘blame’. Brillinat comment as ever Fearless!
This is actually making me think hard. Someone I know but am not involved with (distance-wise, it can’t happen for the foreseeable future), and I have spoken about the possibility of being together when we can.
But we’re of different religions and unfortunately that is a real dealbreaker for me. I don’t think it’s that much of a problem for him (he’s atheist, so not of a ‘different religion’ as such), but probably for some of his family. And my immediate family too. But even if it wasn’t for them, for me a little inside as well.
And we’ve touched upon that briefly but have never spoken seriously because we know other things are stopping us already. And that should be enough to totally put the kibosh on thinking about it…
But he is a great guy and ideal relationship material in pretty much every other way except for this one (as far as I know). I’d like to think that when the time came we could find a viable solution to be together.
But as this article has thrown it into sharp relief it’s not that easy. Especially as religion is often a peripheral factor in one’s personality (you can be the same religion and a wife beater, for e.g.). So things feel a bit unfair! But this article is right, thinking like this is a form of committment resistance. I wish I could say that ‘everything can work out.’ But thank god for BR and its spoonfuls of reality! If it wasn’t hard enough already to find a mate… 🙁
D
My father’s a christian missionary. My youngest brother married a woman who isn’t a christian. My father went to the wedding and even gave a speech (or rather a sermon). I’m chinese and my mother (who I admit is a nutter) would have preferred us not to have “banana” children (yellow on the outside, white on the inside). My sister married a white man. Both parents went to the wedding.
IME parents come round. Especially when children turn up. A lot of the “resistance” is in our own heads.
By all means, if religion is important to YOU, then you need to deal with it. Which is hard enough without trying to factor in how you THINK your family will react. It’s easy for me to say because I’m older but your parents don’t own you. Their job is to give you the upbringing that allows you to make your own decisions, live your own life, and then let you go. If the worse happens and they cut you off, it really is their loss.
Thank you Grace! I’m not thinking about it too hard b/c we’re not together and there’s nothing to say we will be but when something reminds me (like this article) I do get a bit morose.
I think you’re right though, and will keep your advice in mind.
“You’re the ‘wrong’ colour, religion, race, background.”
Out of all of the ones listed in this article, this one bothers me the most because this has happened to quite a few women that I know. To add insult to injury, in some of the cases of the women that I know, the “relationships” dragged on for YEARS. These women (rightfully) thought that they’d spend the rest of their lives with these men. The men would leave and wouldn’t you know it (shocker!!! ), the men were married 6-12 months later… to someone in their ethnic group, of course, OR to someone outside of their ethnic group (which is even worse to me because they LIED about not being able to be with someone outside of their ethnic group).
(Now that I think about it though, my long-term college ex-boyfriend told me that his paternal grandparents said that no one in their family should marry anyone whose parents are divorced. Because you know, everyone whose parents are divorced are damaged goods and his family was just so much better than everyone else’s families. My parents are divorced but to my knowledge, that’s not one of the reasons why he called things off with me.)
I don’t think that this has happened to me, and I’ll make sure that it never does. 😐 To be with someone in a relationship, have sex with them, lead them on, possibly merge lives, and then claim “I can’t do it because (insert bullshit excuse here)”… to basically reject something that someone likely can’t change after leading them on… to reject the CORE of a person KNOWING that you’re leading them on, is egregious at best and despicable at worst. I couldn’t even be friends with someone that despicable. *shaking my head* 🙁
@Spinster: Oh yeah, my mother made the same point about how “messed up” children of divorced parents were and how they were very unsuitable partners. Sigh. It’s insane.
How I wish my father HAD indeed divorced my very abusive, narcissistic, horrible mother and taken me with him! This might have saved me from a very traumatic childhood, and I would probably be much less “messed up” right now.
But there is hope.
Exactly, EllyB. Looking back, his family is probably one of the more messed up families, despite almost everyone in the immediate & extended family being married. *shrugs*
Just another bullshit excuse for ass-wipes to use.
I remember when I was a young (19) single Mom I was riding in my boyfriend’s car and when we drove past his parents house he made me duck down so they wouldn’t see me. This was a punch in the stomach to know he was ashamed enough of me to make me hide. I stood up for myself and said “This is me, if you are ashamed to be with me then don’t ever come back.” Down the road he grew some balls and took me to a family function regardless of his parents opinion of me. Funny thing is, his parents ended up falling in love with my son and in time welcomed us completely. If someone truly wants to be with you, they will overcome the real and perceived obstacles to make it happen. If they don’t see you in their future, they will use these obstacles to manage down the relationship of sever it. Someone who continues to involve you in something they know will never move forward is very selfish and immature. To then turn around and use their family as an excuse (after getting involved with you anyway) is just cowardly. Who would really want someone who can’t think and make decisions for himself or uses scapegoat excuses to keep from having to be real and accountable. It makes them look very small and impotent in the scheme of things. Not attractive at all. I have always said, being told the ugly truth can hurt but it is way less damaging than being purposely deceived. Thinking about all this has stirred up some shit in me. It pisses me off that people actively dot his kind of crap. I am feeling like Fearless lately, and getting angry about not one, but all the EUM’s and AC’s I’ve encountered. I own my part in it, really I do, but the wreckage they leave behind is disgraceful.
I just recently got the “I really like you alot but it just wouldn’t work out in the long because of the age difference..we’re in two different places in life, ya know?” 27 to my 41. Yeah I should’ve known better than to go out with him but he seemed mature and an older type soul at the time and he didn’t seem like age would be an issue. Now when pressed for it not to turn into a bootie call for him but to actually have a “relationship” based on respect, he balks. Seriously now I know both of us are EU otherwise neither would’ve entertained the idea of dating. He’s EU and not able to give intimacy and be vulnerable (man child or not) and I’m EU cause I picked him knowing he’s EU.
Reggie
my ex could be a carbon copy of yours in so many ways. He cheated, i found out. Kicked him out. He tried to come back and all the while was planning an engagement and marriage ( within months) to the girl he cheated on me with. The whole scenario is sick and believe me i dodged a bullet….
It is unbelievably sick, as are these men!! I hope karma’s a bitch!!
Perfect in every way, as usual, Natalie 🙂
Mine told me it was because I was “too quiet.” Lots of backpedaling on his responsibilities, compulsive lying, etc. He also said “I’d be lying if I told you I didn’t like you……sort of.” “I don’t know what I want.”
This was all after almost a year of knowing me and he pursued me pretty strongly in the beginning. He knew how I was from the very beginning and it didn’t seem to be an issue!
I’ve got a twist on this post because I think may be doing what you all are commenting about and would appreciate a reality check. A young 20-something female in my class approached me and indicated that her room mate (he’s 48) was interested in me (there’s articles and pics on the internet). He emailed me and seemed articulate and nice. I responded with my first question: Are you single or married or otherwise attached. His response was good. “Of course I am single and don’t have a girlfriend, or I wouldn’t be contacting you.” He sent pics and a little more info as well.
Here’s the twist. Am I making the stupid value judgments.
1) He has long hair. That worked in the 70’s. Not so much now.
2) He’s a race car driver. Do 48 year olds race cars?
3) Do male 48 year old race car drivers with no kids have female 20-somethings as “room mates”?
4) The 20-something student seems a bit off as though she is recovering from something (very common in my line of work) but is trying really hard.
5) Other than the above niggling details, he seems nice in two email exchanges.
I don’t know if I should say thanks but no thanks and being to quick to judge but if I’m already feeling I should, maybe I should?
PS. I know he could cut his hair but that seems like I’m already trying to change him.
PPS. Natalie, do you see how this post fits? Am I doing what these jerks have done and being an unavailable jerk myself making judgments about the length of his hair? Are my spidery feelings on overdrive? Should I see him as a discovery phase?
Yikes. This dating thing is scary and confusing. Maybe I’m not ready yet.
As I thought about my #1 issue regarding his long hair, I figure I can anticipate your responses: At 52 lady, just be glad he has some!
runner,
you don’t have to date anyone you don’t want to. this isn’t the ‘last chance saloon’ as Nat would say. if you’re not attracted at all, you’re not attracted. not everyone you meet online gets to the go-for-coffee stage, right? even if you meet them online through a student.
now, it IS weird to me that a student is setting up her prof. he’s interested in you through your published work or profiles of you online? why go through her – is he passing notes?
but still: what’s the harm in a coffee? you don’t need us to tell you whether it’s okay to exercise your judgment – i’m interested in how YOU choose to exercise it and then in hearing about the outcomes! not all decisions are black and white. keep us posted!
Okay, I excercised my judgment, now that I have a little. Here’s the outcome so far. After the last email exchange, he suggested we talk on the phone or meet in person (good sign). I gave him my number and figured if he called that would be fine, if not there you have it. He called a few hours later (good sign) and we had a delightful conversation, no ex’s, no drama. He’s out of racing and does something with the business end of race car engines…couldn’t exactly follow because I just turn on my car and it seems to run. We mostly talked about gardening, flying and my daughter. Turns out he’s a pilot (hobby) and my 2nd ex was too, although I didn’t mention the 2nd ex part. Turns out he went to San Diego State (physics major) about the same time I did. He’s growing tomatoes and cactus, I’m growing peppers. No major red flags or even amber ones from the first phone conversation, no drama, and not a single complaint or excuse. Just consistency and effort? I’m under the weather with a minor cold and he said he would call tomorrow to see how I was doing. No pressure, not a single sexual inneundo, no future faking, no fast forwarding? I’ll call you tomorrow to see how you are doing? I was so relieved because I feel like sh*t and need to sleep. It’s no wonder I would have dismissed this guy a year ago when I was a drama addict. Now, it just feels really nice. Several times I wondered if he was a BR reader because he was so considerate. Maybe the hair thing will resolve itself, assuming it it still long. The ex MM had a scraggly, graying beard which he shaved of his own accord. Just taking things slowly and keeping my feet on the ground. Now I’m headed to bed to sleep off this stupid cold. I hate being sick.
runnergrl, you are just BARELY out of the mess with MM, relax and give yourself some time. If you are already confused and trying to figure him out…that sounds like amber flags at *minimum*.
I kinda agree with Sunshine. Relax. At this point in time this man is a stranger who has expressed an interested; what he’s interested in remains to be seen. When and if you get to know him then *you* must decide IF it’s safe to proceed; at this point there’s is not point speculating. Keep your feet firmly on the ground runner – you are still vulnerable ((hug)).
p.s. I agree about the hair! Lol (what are we like!). But at least it’s something he can change! Ha. But he can’t change being the man who thinks long hair at 48 is cool. But IF he’s a good guy – then he’s a good guy and his hair won’t matter.
Runner, I agree with Fearless! Just take it slow and see what happens 🙂 If he turns out to be a jerk, please ask Nat for my email, forward me his phone number and I will personally call him and tell him to go sh*t in a lake (in English, of course).
p.s. If he’s wearing 70’s pants (aka, so tight that if he farts, the cuffs will blow off)…leave. Ohmygod.
Hi ladies, thanks so much for your feedback. After reading this article, I hoped I wasn’t making the same stupid value judgments. You are right Magnolia, I don’t need you all to tell me whether it’s okay to exercise my judgment, now that I have some! I don’t have an online profile. It’s surprising what gets on the internet. There are various newspaper articles about my work at the college and pics from various work functions. Coffee may be okay, we’ll see. Another student in my class today who knows this student wanted to know about my big date, although there isn’t one that I know of. That didn’t bode well. It’s been 48 hours and two email exchanges and already the students are talking.
Fearless and Sunshine, thanks for the reminder to RELAX. If I decide to get to know him, I trust myself to recognize red flags and opt out or proceed slowly. I’m not in any hurry as he isn’t the last chance saloon. If we meet, I can get the answers and proceed from there. You are funny Fearless, IF he’s a good guy, his hair won’t matter, although thinking it is cool at 48 is a possible issue. It also dawned me that in the past, I didn’t let a wife or a large gut or balding head worry me and they weren’t good guys. Thanks again.
i could relate to this article. eventhough mine was more or less about an oath he stands by to than his age. i don’t understand people who doesn’t want a relationship but stayed on with you and keep showing you that they do love you. one day you mess something up, BAM!, he ran out of the door.
he made up a lot of stories why he can’t be with me. and talk about breaking up and making up, we did that most than someone in a real relationship. i don’t even know what was i in, a scandal? a relationshit? or just bad drama?
Thanks for taking on this topic.
I see this all the time where I am, as a foreign woman living in a somewhat socially conservative, but superficially modernized Middle Eastern country. Most of the interested males who approach me clearly seem to envision me in a Fallback Girl, dirty-little-secret type of role. Many of these guys are half my age, give or take a couple of years – in their 20s. They start out trying to invite themselves over, which could be dangerous, and their reluctance or refusal to socialize in public inevitably compels me to flush them before too long.
They are all too often looking for NSA sex, or a visa to the West. It’s a relief to meet one who truly, sincerely only wants to practice his English with no ulterior motives.
They are interested in older, foreign women because girls of their own background and age range are “expecting something” from them, i.e., a proper, serious, above-board relationship, a real boyfriend who would eventually become a fiancé and then a husband. They figure that we either do not or cannot expect that from them. Realistically, we don’t – but they often act as if we don’t expect, or have any right to such things as honesty, common courtesy or basic respect, either.
Looking on the bright side, I suppose I should be grateful that the bullets around here are so obvious and easily dodged that they’re actually more like perhaps those giant Pilates balls.
NoMo
Hee, thanks for the funny visual of gym balls.
I appreciate your dilemma. Unfortunately, I think it’s very difficult to have a relationship with honesty, respect, courtesy where you know or he knows or you both know that at some point he’s going to skip off with someone younger and more “suitable”, leaving you heartbroken and x years older.
The alternative – to aim high seems, like you say, so … unlikely at our age. I’m still figuring this out.
“girls of their own background and age range are “expecting something” from them, i.e., a proper, serious, above-board relationship, a real boyfriend who would eventually become a fiancé and then a husband. They figure that we either do not or cannot expect that from them. Realistically, we don’t – but they often act as if we don’t expect, or have any right to such things as honesty, common courtesy or basic respect, either.”
You just totally described guys in their 20’s hitting on me – 41 yo. Apparently no regard for the fact that I’m a living breathing human being with feelings that is actually LOOKING to be in a real relationship…it’s like they assume I’m DTF like Samantha from Sex and the City! I tried with ONE guy who seemed mature and open to more than that…epic fail. He started off fine with proper dates and I went for 2 months without him getting my clothes off..but forget it, after they get you – mission accomplished. 😛
All of these horrible stories make me seriously want to give up men forever. Does anyone else feel this way? If it’s so common, as the title says to tell someone they would love you IF you were not white/black/thin/fat/educated/uneducated etc, then do people actually experience love?
Been there Lavender! Hell, I still go there sometimes. It’s hard when you haven’t really experienced a great relationship with a decent guy for yourself to believe that it’s out there (my last one was in high school…and I just celebrated my 30th birthday). If you look to your family, your friends, people you work with, etc. there are a TON of positive examples of people who accept each other and fall in love. Proof positive: One of my guy friends is a male model. So, yeah, homeboy is good looking. And smart. He and his girlfriend just celebrated their one year anniversary. Is she a Victoria’s Secret Angel/Part Time NASA Engineer? Nope. She’s a very nice, normal girl. And he LOVES her! 🙂
Yes. It’s unfortunate, as many of the men in the city I live in are (to my taste) really attractive physically. It sorta feels like being in a gay bar.
I might consider a limited-time offer with one of the young studs, except that a) they start off on the booty-call track, never mind what I might want, and they pressure one shamelessly, and b) they expect that I will do all the calling and take all the initiative. There’s one I know who has a job, but never has any credit on his phone. Whenever I see him he’s crying, “why do you never call me?” Ummm, because YOU never call ME?
In my old age I have come to the realization that many relationships are not about love, they’re about status-seeking, using others to fulfill unhealthy needs, and other forms of desperation. I feel more alone in a bad relationship than I do on my own, so why bother?
I just found a piece of paper in the bf’s passport (he was travelling recently) with a woman’s landline, mobile number and email address written on it in her handwriting. Code red or amber? I can’t ask him, he’d accuse me of snooping. Should I just bin it? How do you know when a lack of trust is your issue/baggage or when it is well founded?
Me, I’m a Bitch with a capital B. I’d call her and find out what the deal is, and THEN deal with him …
… slowly …
Ask him. You are allowed to ask questions. But keep the number handy to confirm. Does that sound sneaky? Trust but verify! My bf of 5 yrs got married and I didn’t have a clue, because it never occurred to me not to trust him.
Hi Natalie,
Great blog again, as always! I can’t explain how much reading your site has helped me over the past months/year since I got dumped by my EUM/assclown.
At least I think that’s what he is. I was wondering if the ‘I love you but can’t with you’ excuse (or is it a genuine reason?) applies to long distance relationships? I was never satisfied with him commitment and dedication to the relationship and very early on he would say things like ‘I can’t really see where this is going but I’m just going to not think about it and see what happens’. He would also never let me know exactly when he was going to be visiting me again on the grounds that he didn’t know himself and that I was to know it would be in a ‘few weeks’.. One time he informed me it wasn’t like I was doing anything else so why do I need to know in advance anyway.
Tosser.
I know he has all the hallmarks of a EUM (he also had no previous girlfriends, had palmed off the girl from his country who was before me on the grounds that he was ‘too busy for a relationship’ – though he does go away for a few months of the year for ‘work’- and he freely admitted he thought he was a commitmentphobe about many things, such as big purchases etc). I wonder sometimes though if maybe it’s not that he’s EUM, it’s just he didn’t like me enough to want to commit to me or treat me with respect at all times?
Ok I’ve rambled on for long enough! My essential question here is whether or not this ‘I love you but’ lark can apply to LDR?
Thanks again,
JJ
Oh, just to add, this bloke was my first proper boyfriend (it started just before i turned 20) and I thought I was fully in love with him, for about 3.5 years. Sometimes I think that because I had no previous relationships to compare him to, I either demonised or forgave his behaviour too much? I don’t want to discover that actually the way he behaved towards me was normal, because now, when I look back, despite the fact that he did come and see me and did ‘put up with’ a lot of bitching and crossness from me, I don’t think his feelings were ever anything more than lukewarm. 🙁 But why? Why did he seem to just reach a plateau of how much he liked me? I feel like I must lack something, even though part of me feels like I’m too good for him anyway.
Confusing!
JJ
People move.
My brother’s sister moved from Hong Kong to marry him. An uber-player I used to know moved to France and learned a new language to marry and have twin girls with a young, spectacularly beautiful French woman. I remember thinking, “hmm, if it took a 20yo French girl to get this man to commit, it’s not exactly worth holding your breath for”. And she got lucky with the timing. He was in his thirties and thinking it was about time he got his act together. Five years earlier and she’d have been another notch in the bedpost. (mind you she’d have been fifteen so maybe not)
It’s not about you. But if he never seemed that bothered about you the solution isn’t to stick around trying to make him more interested, it’s to find someone who IS bothered. Not everyone, even if they ARE available, is going to love and cherish you. If you’r e not getting what you deserve … walk away. At least don’t start REWARDING them for their indifference with sex and your attention!
Lots of people PREFER LDRs (I did) because they are EU. You get the security of being in a relationship without the hassle of showing up, sharing your space and time, or even having to think about them very much. And you have a built-in excuse to end it without any drama.
You call him a tosser. He’s a tosser if he lives five yards, five miles, fifty miles, five hundred miles or five thousand miles away.
“What’s incredibly difficult to deal with in these situations is feeling like you’re being ‘penalised’ with a reason that’s beyond your control while at the same time being made to feel that if you win ‘enough’ of their love, they might see their way to changing their mind and letting you into the ‘winner’s enclosure’.”
Goes back to what Natalie said about “make me the exception.”
I’ve had many “Make me the exception” relationships, but couldn’t put it into words until Natalie did.
JJ,
you said “But why? Why did he seem to just reach a plateau of how much he liked me?”
You are truely wasting your own precious time in wondering why about someone else’s actions. That really is their stuff to deal with. It’s a much better question toi ask yourself “why do I care so much and how can I get my own life back and move on from this idiot!”
The last two men I chose to be with did this to me. One made me a secret because I wasn’t “relationship material”, One told me I was ‘too old’ to be a girlfriend.
I wasted that time on them, and now I AM too old to ever be anything to anyone again.
Don’t let this happen to you.
Mary, my neighbor, a sweet 70 year old widow, recently found a nice boyfriend. You never know.
“I AM too old to ever be anything to anyone again.”
Depends what it is you think you should be.
This is a great topic and very relevant to my situation…
I was with someone of a different cultural/religious background which didn’t seem to be a prob at the beginning of our relationship. However, a year and a bit in the relationship, I suddenly became ‘not very feminine, dressing like a European hippy, coming across very strong…etc etc’. I got out of that mess. 6 months later he comes back with regrets and a serious proposal. I loved him and unfortunately let him back in my life. We had the same scenario, supposedly, and he had proposed when 3 years later religion became a huge issue. He asked me to convert while he knew that I wouldn’t…a great way to get out!!! Before the final break up and during a moment of stupid honesty on his part, he admitted that the prob was multidimensional; he felt emasculated (our difference was also evident in the educational level and future potentials…i am a doer, he is a sit-and-wait-for-things-to-happen type of guy) and he admitted being afraid I would abandon him one day…Meanwhile I was the emotionally secure and ‘stable’ in this relationship being blamed for future mishaps…Lastly, he said ‘ you never know, maybe 3 years down the road we meet again and you look more sophisticated and have fixed your teeth (yep people my front teeth are not TOTALLY straight) and then I fall in love with you….’
Religion was a great excuse for his personal insecurities, low self esteem, emotional unavailability, and commitment issues. He played me great! The sad part is that it took me 5 years to figure out that the problem was not religion but him…
Aw Jasmine, what an unpleasant experience.
Still, there IS something we can all learn from it. We really DON’T need him to “explain” why he’s not interested in a proper relationship. Unless we particularly like being insulted by jackasses.
Don’t fret about the teeth thing. I have a very crooked front tooth which always surprises me in photos.
Years ago, I rejected a man who proceeded to insult me, mentioning my … chin of all things. I have a heart-shaped face like Reese Witherspoon. Stupid that I remember that. I didn’t even like the guy and he was NO oil painting himself.
He’s out of your life now, better things await.
Jasmine, so sorry you had to go through that and good for you that you were able to get past it! I’m sure you have a beautiful smile…use it as often as possible! If it makes you feel any better, on like my second/third go around with my ex he would yammer on about his female friends and how they should have better boyfriends because they were “tall and gorgeous”. Mind you, I’m…5′ 1″. Interestingly enough, he was always telling me to put on high heels. Yick. Grace is 100% spot on – better things DO await 🙂 Plus, that oil painting comment has me dying laughing!!
“maybe 3 years down the road we meet again and you look more sophisticated and have fixed your teeth (yep people my front teeth are not TOTALLY straight) and then I fall in love with you….”
Ooohh! How completely irresistible: three years down the line if you’ve changed into something different I might fall in love with you; maybe not but I might.
Well ain’t that what every woman is longing to hear. Pfft.
Last time I saw him he said “You’d be totally effable if you had brown hair”. I’m a Blonde.
Jasmine,
yes the problem wasn’t religion, it was the fact he was a grade A ahole! You are well rid!
Interesting article, and my incompatibility with my Ex were amongts others…the fact that he suddendly (on this early 30sh) wanted to be play in a band, and I had made clear that I didn’t want a relationship with anybody related to music: (This was due my past, which i had never explain to him despite him asking. I had dated a rockstar for over 3 years and was the most painful relationship you could wish to anyone, girls, drugs and rock & roll around the world pure HELL). Therefore + distance + i appeared not interested enough on him – we were not compatible.
Cutting history short after 3 years gap between relationships this amazing guy blown me away, as he would bring the moon to me. He was from my hometown where i go back every 3/4 weeks, and i live in london(2 hours flight), and I started off pretty exceptical to the whole love you-want to move in with you soon thingy. He impressed me and my friends and my family in every way, he would moved to London or whatever part of the world for me, and me and his family would put things off for a better time “soon”.
Suddenly, his feeling flipped, he thought we were going no-anywhere if i couldn’t change some of my attitud – which at the time i was not willing to listen. (Wish i had now)
He didnt come to my only brother’s wedding, and straight after that split up with me, assuring he loved me, didn’t wanna loose me but He wanted to play music, and didnt like him for what he was and he was going to be very busy (despite all the year we went out he assured me that was over with playing since he was 18!). Yes, he was the sweetheart and had been the bitch – mea culpa, but he didn’t listen to apologies or wanted to give us a chance then. He also – no longer couldn’t move to London never ever.
Since then, we have had limitted contact, 1 1/2 month post-break up he IMs me the news: he is in a band and will be touring europe including London. Now since the breakup talk, I have being home 8 times in 4month and he was always said yes to meet up and then found a perfect excuse, which has left me totally destroyed (as i never used to chase him, and i know feel i have been doing so). Last time 2 weeks ago, same happen, and once back in London, he wanted to talk to me and apologized for not meeting up, yet never made the effort since his apology…, and in a few weeks he will be in London!
This article has made me think that could have been a excuse, but all and all, the facts are he is now an ex, would not call him AC or anything resentfull as he was a gentleman, just it has not been like that since the split – but would he had found other incompatibilities?
I guess i would always wonder if he would have found another excuse to split, if we had talk things through over my rockstar-past, or that was just that I was not right for him anyway? Only him holds the answer.
Thanks for your all your histories, very motivational!
I fail 100% to see how someone who blows off your brother’s wedding, dumps you and then breaks multiple appointments is a gentleman. Surely what defines a gentleman is “my word is my bond”.
You’ve got him on a pedestal. The alarm bell rang when you described him as “amazing”. I won’t even address the moon part! People in healthy relationships do NOT generally describe it as amazing. They are more likely to say (and I have heard this from men and women) “We get on well. I enjoy his/her company. We’re best friends. We’re a team. We love each other.”
I’ve said it to others – he’s not as great as you think he is. I would NC him unless you want him to let you down a fifth time.
I am in a predicament over my relationship with a muslim guy I have been seeing for the past three months. He stated a while ago that our religious background would be an issue, but we decided we will carry on and see how things go but since then, whenever we seem to be making progress in the relationship, he proceeds to sabotaging things, and when I protest, he would say things like: “let’s take it easy” “lets just be friends for now” etc. I have told him that I have no problem with being ‘friends’ except he still expects us to carry on as lovers! I am now at a point where I need to cut him loose, since it has become clear that the relationship will go nowhere, but I suspect this won’t be easy, and he has been pleading with me not to cut him of altogether, but for us to carry on as friends, and see what happens. He truly loves and respects me, and we are best friends, so I’m not quite sure how to handle this. At the end of the day, I need to be emotionally available for someone who is willing and ABLE to commit to me, and I fear being with him, even as ‘just friends’ will prevent this from happening. I have recently turned 30, so haven’t got the time to wait around.