If you’ve ever found yourself struggling to get over a relationship that didn’t get off the ground, was unreciprocated, or was largely virtual, you may not realise that you’ve been involved in a fantasy relationship although you may have uttered the words, “I can’t figure out what was real and what wasn’t!”
While some people do the atypical fantasy and conjure up a relationship and a connection that doesn’t and never did exist, what I come across are people who are stuck in a sustained period of continuing a ‘connection’ mentally that’s ceased in real life with the help of the internet, and then those who use the flimsiest of connections as a springboard to create a connection and relationship in their imagination that far surpasses reality.
These situations are often borne out of loneliness, a fear of rejection and intimacy, and great feelings of inadequacy. The more knocks you experience in the real world that you’re trying to avoid, the bigger a cocoon that you’ll build around yourself.
Expectations and illusions have a huge impact on emotional availability and the dynamics in a relationship. When you consider the unhealthy beliefs that you can carry when you have a habit of being in unavailable relationships, it’s also easy to see how you can have an unrealistic picture of what a relationship looks like and how you can choose unavailable people to try to fill voids within you.
Of course the trouble is that while they can often have some ‘good’ qualities, the ones that add up to a mutual, healthy relationship are thin on the ground and they’re under-qualified to fulfil capabilities and expectations that you place on them. One of the things they do do though that’s very useful for those of you prone to overuse of your imagination, is remain distant, so while that does have its frustrations when you want them to make certain things a reality, truth be told, the distance works for you and leaves you free to imagine whatever you like.
Any relationship or even the prospect of one, where there was some level of emotional investment takes some time to get over, but it’s safe to say that it can be awfully difficult to let go of a relationship that didn’t actually exist or what did, was as flimsy as a sandcastle built in the sky. What many people don’t recognise about grieving the loss of relationships is that it’s not just about when you break a relationship; it can also be about grieving the loss of hope and what you thought might be and some of you aren’t doing this and are in fact, holding tight not only to the dream but a massive avoidance of rejection. Unfortunately, it’s a vicious circle because the more you avoid your feelings, is the more you remain in denial, is the more unavailable you become, is the greater likelihood of either opening yourself up to pain with this Mr/Miss Unavailable, or finding fresh pain with a new one.
If you have a tendency to have crushes, get lost in your feelings, continue feeling even when it becomes clear it’s not reciprocated, or can weave a fantasy relationship out of words and your imagination, you’re a Dreamer. Carrying a huge fear of intimacy, you find it safer to live in your mental world rather than risk a ‘real’ rejection. While all Fallback Girls (and guys) have avoidance issues and are chasing a feeling, you don’t truly want to get close to anyone – you want that “feeling” from a distance.
Your mind is very rarely in the present and you’re very ‘dreamy’ and have often been doing your imaginary world thing for a very long time, possibly since childhood or after you experienced a traumatic event. It may be a learned coping mechanism for shutting out anything ‘unpleasant’ that’s eating up too much reality and causing you to feel vulnerable. Often, all you need is a little attention or for them to be in possession of a couple of characteristics or qualities that you overvalue, for you to create a connection that ignites your imagination.
In theory, you can become involved with any unavailable person including in particular, Transitionals, Cheaters, and Opportunists but particularly in these modern times, you’re most likely to be caught out with the Shopper.
Fond of collecting attention, you’re highly likely to find them online or hiding behind their phone. Like all Unavailables, they’re an intimacy dodger and like to keep themselves as distant as possible by fuelling most of the communication through words and never meeting you, or only doing so very occasionally and coming up with the most absurd reasons for why it hasn’t happened yet.
In some respects, they’re a Dreamer themselves but are often more conscious of it due to them having the upper hand in the relationship. That said, they wouldn’t take any responsibility for any promises made off the back of the dreaming. They’re also the type that ‘fishes’ with ambiguous texts, leaves you waiting on Skype, asks you to transfer some money to them after you’ve only known them for a month because their sister has been in an ‘accident’, or has you waiting in every night for a call at a certain time while they’re off pestering someone else or feathering their nest elsewhere.
If you’re entirely honest with yourself, which may be difficult when you’re prone to fantasy, you feel much more secure and in control in your illusionary world than you do in real life.
I’ve read enough mails and comments from readers to know that sometimes you can become so overwhelmed by your experiences and the pain, and lose so much confidence in yourself that you feel helpless to deal with a real relationship and take comfort in your imagination where everything feels and looks a lot better.
Unfortunately in real life, you’re still a Fallback Girl/Guy and while you’re immersed in your feelings and imagination, you miss out on some very obvious signs that all is not well. You don’t register that you’re not being ‘matched’, or that they’ve left the building or were never even there, or that who you think they are is not actually who you’re involved with.
While all this ‘loving’ and ‘trusting’ blindly opens you up to at best being taken advantage of and at worst being abused if you’re involved with someone, if you’re not, it can cause you to become very numb and struggle to discern fiction from reality. On top of this, you lose significant chunks of your life.
You’re an ideal match for an over-estimating, Future Faking, Fast Forwarding, dreaming, attention seeking, and in need of an ego stroke Unavailable.
Shoppers can toss you some words and some pipe dreams in crumb rations and sustain this flimsy relationship for years. While they may not be aware of your dreamy tendencies at the outset, when it becomes clear you’re in LaLa Land and it doesn’t set off alarm bells and have them backing away, they rationalise that it’s not their fault that you’ve got “carried away” and that they’ll pass time with you.
This is one of those situations where it might be all you, but if there’s an Unavailable in the equation, then someone’s benefitting from your fantasy ways. That doesn’t remove your accountability but it’s important to get back to base here: You’re a Fallback that chooses people that reflect your beliefs and allow you to remain in your comfort zone.
While your fantasies and crushes may have involved some Mr/Miss Availables, it’s more likely that they didn’t because an available person poses a risk of vulnerability and intimacy which you’re trying to avoid, so you’ll choose your ‘marks’ well because they’ll be attached, or immersed in their own problems, sitting at the end of a computer etc. Of course, as is always the case with unavailable relationships, eventually reality pierces the illusion bubble and much pain results.
Your thoughts?
This is an excerpt from one of the forthcoming mini guides that will be accompanying Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. More info coming soon! And yes there is one on Miss Independent/Miss Self Sufficient, The Other Woman, and even a Miss Understanding. The new edition of Mr Unavailable & The Fallback Girl is now available to buy both in print and in digital formats plus check out my ebooks the No Contact Rule and and more in my bookshop.
Image source: MichaelAW on SXC
About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1083 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
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I tend to be a dreamer especially when the opportunity catches me off guard. I’m not one who looks for romance, so when a cool guy comes on to me, it’s always a nice and welcome surprise. The last time this happened, I followed his lead. I was 100% there, wanting to date, but although he kept saying he wanted us to get together outside work, he’d never follow through. We were co-workers, so he kept our interactions strictly within working hours – asking me to lunch, happy hours – but never followed through on outings he’d suggest outside work.
I kept making excuses for him and telling myself, “Maybe this time he means it and he’ll call.” It never happened. The odd thing is that I never called him or sent a text message because I didn’t want to sweat him. I thought, “If he’s really into me, he’d call, right?” Well, he still managed to sense that I was really into him. He continued with his charade and as long as I continued liking him, the fantasy remained.
I didn’t call him out until I finally realized he only saw me as a pigeon waiting for him to throw me some crumbs. Someone like that never respected me and when you think about it like that, the fantasy fades. Another thing is that he knew he was good at being a charmer and I think he got off on that. He always paid when we had lunch, complimented me often and while those were nice gestures, they were just part of his game.
Love that–excellent analogy–”a pigeon” waiting to be thrown crumbs. Yes, it’s pigeons who are (or seem to be) happy w/mere crumbs.
Funny that these guys get off on the attention they feel they need to receive. THEY are the more pathetic ones. You never stooped to his level–of needing validation, etc.
LOSER dude.
Totally agree. THEY are the losers, needing to string someone along to make them feel good about themselves. I think these ac’s have lower self esteem than us fallback girls. I may be guilty of the latter but I dont need to have a roledex of men to call to make me feel good about myself.
I think maybe the universe has just sent me my one last ass. I had a one month relationship this past May with a future faking MM who assured me his marriage was over. When I realized it wasn’t I went NC and have been true to that except for a brief email slip-up to decline his request for friendship. End of story with him. I avoid him at work, and it is working, I am moving on. In the last month or so though a guy at work who really seemed to like me has been finding reasons to spend time with me (in the work setting). My colleague said she thought he had a crush on me. I started to dream. Today he stopped by to chat for a while, and after he got back to his office he sent an email “that was a nice break.” And now I have just found out tonight he is attached. I feel so disappointed and discouraged. I have been doing everything right I thought. Getting out and meeting people, doing things for myself, trying new things, seeing a counselor, being happy alone. I am 48 and have been divorced for 7 years. I have made my way in life, I am reasonably successful at work, I have friends who care about me. I have always tried only to love. Even with the MM I was just trying to love, I didn’t mean to hurt anyone and I feel like I was deceived by him. I am basically a good person and I feel like there must be someone who would be happy to be loved by me and share their life with me. It just doesn’t seem to be in the cards. Now I need to set some boundaries for this person at work, and I will do it, because I have learned my lessons here at BR. I just feel such a loss of hope. I am tired of grieving.
Michelle
“Even with the MM I was just trying to love,”
Just trying to love an MM is not only a waste of time, it’s very painful, as you have discovered – there really isn’t any “just” about it – it’s a very damaging situation for all concerned. Don’t throw your love at people willy-nilly cos you’re ‘just trying to love’ someone; You did the right thing to walk away from the MM – and good too that you know you need to now ignore the current attached chancer – if you keep filtering out the cheating chancers (et al), you can’t fail do do better for yourself and also meet someone who deserves you and your love.
Michelle,
Just read your post. I agree with Fearless. Sorry to hear you’ve had some bad luck in the love department, you are not alone. The past two guys I’ve really cared about have been EUM who I did not recognize at once for who they were b/c I was sucked into their charm, good looks, “care and concern” for me…all the while they were doling out crumbs of affection to me while KNOWING that I had romantic feelings… Got angry/annoyed with me for wanting more, hot and cold, all that junk…It’s made me seriously question myself, why are you naturally drawn to these types of men? I’ve realized it’s b/c they remind me of my father in some ways, kind and charming during the short times we share and then absent emotionally or seemingly disinterested in my life most of the time. I kept thinking I could “win them over” make them more interested and show more affection if only I gave more, was sweeter, lost more weight, was funnier, etc. Talk about feeling your self esteem/self-respect take hits. At least now I know where it’s all stemming from & how to better deal with it all. I don’t know if you have a similar history but you might want to think back to the male role models in your life growing up and if you’re drawn to those somewhat similar to them or not. Trying to break my pattern. I’m sorry to hear you’re hurting. Our wounds will heal with time. We need to focus on loving ourselves more & learn to quickly hit the “mental flush” button on those EUM men. I believe we will each one day meet the guys we are meant to be with. In the meanwhile lets create a more full life. In my experience the EUMS at work are the worst b/c you see them so often. Personally I am somewhat shy & sweet & I think they pick up on that & take advantage unless I am acting self aware with my guards up. I am learning to do this. See through the charm and flattery. Have your guard up, tell the next ones you have a bf even if it’s not true, maybe they will buzz off faster. HUGS
Crumbs No More,
Thank you so much for the support. I have learned so much from this site and am trying to get at the root cause for my bad relationship choices. My father had depression and I think that made him unavailable to me in some sense, although he was an incredibly good man with a good heart. I think that all my life I have been looking for a man to love me. I am done with that though. No more trying to win a man at any cost so that I am loved. I’ve realized since this latest attached-guy almost disaster that what I’ve really needed all these years is for me to love me.
Magnolia,
I really relate to your posts! I constantly have arguments in my head with people who aren’t there to hear them too. I also feel like a mess and social misfit most days. I wad reading Nat’s response to you, the part where she said she could walk around assuming people know she’s aftaid of social rejection, looking at her phone or just saying hi and keep walking…this is what I do all the time! And I think a lot of it is avoidance, because of the “hard knocks in life” Nat mentioned in her post. I mean my life sorta sucks. I left my EUM after almost 7 years of utter bullshit about a year and a half ago. Do I feel better a year and a half later? No. Actually, I’ve been alone for a year and a half, not even a date, not even anyone interested in a date! He however, moved on 2 months later and I’ve seen him with her several times, and he of course STILL see’s me alone 1.5 years later…and I gave this guy everything I had. prior to that I was alone and very lonely for years, and prior to that I was burned big time by another guy. So yes, I’ve taken some “hard knocks” and my first ex is married and the last idiot has been with the same girl since we broke up. I have everything, they gave nothing. Anyway point being, I’m tired, I’m drained, and it easier to live in a “safe” fantasy then throw yourself out there yet again to deal with thus kind of shit. I mean, I’ve gone through hardships for years, I’m sure others have too…but it becomes REALLY difficult to remain optimistic and positive about this when nothing good happens, actually quite the opposite… Your worst nightmare keeps becoming a reality with every person you’re with. Come on, something’s gotta give!
tyla
I feel like you, tired and drained and in need of a escape route. When I catch myself fantazying, I try to stop and think that living in fantasy is like living in denial and that at the end i am still alone and not getting what I really want.
It’s hard, its like an addiction.
One thing I’m not clear on in Natalie’s post is the idea that women in this situation don’t want or fear a real relationship. Why would anyone prefer a false or one-sided relationship in which they’re led on over someone showing interest and actually wanting to pursue something with you? Just curious.
I think in my situation, I was looking for him to validate that I’m date material, pretty enough, etc. Can’t believe I ever cared what someone like that thought of me. Shame on me!
Speaking only for myself, it’s *not* what my higher self prefers; my higher self would like to be truly loved and seen for the beautiful person I am inside and out. However, the deeply ingrained pattern from childhood, the one that I know so well (inconsistent “love” from both mother and father, childhood sexual abuse, and being too “artistic” for many of my peers [thus feeling isolated and as one who doesn't fit in]) is the one that has driven me to make choices from a *diminished* sense of self. When you make choices from a pattern of *less than* and do so for a long time, it may seem that you *prefer* it–you start to normalize it, as if that’s all you’re worth because that’s all you’ve known. An escape into fantasy is *infinitely* safer, as you can imagine.
Because the fantasy is much easier to deal with than the reality. I thought I had a wonderful guy who adored me. I wanted a deep, long-lasting, supportive friendship based on mutual trust and respect. And he wanted a shag. That was the reality I didn`t want to deal with, but once I did take the specs off and see it for what it really was, hurtful and painful as it was, I was able to start taking the steps to get out of it.
I was validating myself very much on what he thought of me looking down from way up high on the pedestal I had put him on. And then I realised with someone as effed up as him, his opinion really counts for nothing anyway!
I have to confess to being both a dreamer and a shopper in recent weeks. I would absolutely emphasise that the two go hand-in-hand. In one way, I’ve been a dreamer with a guy I like very much, who has responded very positively whenever I’ve initiated contact with him, and on our dates, but who rarely initiates contact with me – nevermind, I’ve managed to use what material I do have to “fill in the gaps” of the narrative. To keep me busy and distracted and “cool”, however, I’ve been shopping with another guy, who I am somewhat interested in, but do not see a future with. He texts me a lot, which is great – keeps my mind of the real target of my affections – and I’ll text him, throw him the odd piece of meat to keep him hanging around, and make promises of a forthcoming meet-up that I’m not sure will materialise. His attention bolsters my self-esteem when I’m feeling disappointed that the first guy is not showing enough interest. So, I absolutely see how dreaming and shopping work symbiotically. Call me a player but I think most dreamers have been shoppers at some point – different sides of the same coin, not good vs. evil.
KLM
Good v evil is overstating it. I do think, though, that we are so unfocused and directionless that we try to make it about right, wrong, good, bad in an attempt to steer ourselves. Ultimately, what do we really want and are we living our lives and makng decisions in accordance with that? While there is nothing inherently wrong with what you’re doing, it does sound messy. I’m not keen on women seeking self-esteem from men. That’s cos I have five nieces. I wouldn’t want any of them courting male interest to feel good about themselves. And while your situation may be intriguing, and even seems harmless cos none of it seems to be serious, from my own experience of such dalliances it will end badly or, at least, in disappointment.
KLM,
I feel the exact same way. I have been a dreamer and shopper with different men. The men who have the characteristics (good job, successful, charming, funny) that I desire, tend to throw me crumbs and I end up fantasizing intensely about them in result. They also tend to be married or in a relationship – they see me as a friend but I secretly view them as more. The ones that I have dated, I have not been much interested in, and I throw hot and cold signals to them. I’ve seen a pattern in my behavior – the men who express too much interest in me and don’t possess my ideal characteristics, I am ambivalent towards. The men who are unavailable (literally, because they are already in a relationship or marriage) and are my type, I obsess about. In some sense, my attraction derives from the on and off personality of my father growing up – he was kind at times but by and large not around. I need to get myself out of this unhealthy mindset and start living my REAL life instead of getting caught up in this fantasy crap.
I am a dreamer, and have not had a ‘real’ relationship for 10 years – most of my adult life. I realise now I am a commitment phobe. In my early 20s I imagined I would not marry and settle down till I was about 30, but that I would have satisfying and rewarding medium term relationships (3-5 years) before then. I have not had that at all – quite the opposite, I have become a fallback girl, being involved with Shoppers, Cheats – all manner of Mr Unavailables. The ‘relationship’ I have just come out of lasted for 9 mostly miserable months and I have just discovered that he is not split up from his ex – they are still together. I met her last week and asked her and finally got the answers. He has been emotionally controlling and manipulative with his compulsive lies and has got me into a complete spin.
I realise that I have forgotten what a real relationship feels like. Although he introduced me to his girlfriend and I met his friends (who covered for him) and he did ‘boyfriend’ type stuff, my friends would exclaim things like “you haven’t heard from him all week?” and “he hasn’t been over for dinner?!” and I would kind of shrug and in a feeble voice say “no…but I’m giving him space” or “no, he’s really busy”. My friends’ reactions come from having real relationship experiences – I remember now that I used to be like that!! I’m not anymore and I don’t know how I slipped into these horrid relationship habits…but I did…it’s a slippery slope. Now I want to stop them but I just don’t know how. I have read Natalie’s posts about having boundaries and being happy in your own life – I have a very full life with friends and family and I have boundaries. I even have boundaries with men, but I think they aren’t strong enough and I have spent a lot of time trying to be a fixer and giving them the benefit of the doubt too much.
How do you stop being a dreamer and get real???
I completely relate to the part where you say “I realise that I have forgotten what a real relationship feels like”
My first relationship went on for two years where basically I let him treat me like I was nothing. I expected nothing and made a million excuses for him. I honestly just had no idea how a real relationship is SUPPOSED to to.
I am almost ten years older now that I was when that relationship happened and I wouldn’t say that I REALLY know now. How much am I entitled to, and at which stage? What is normal and understandable behavior? Since my first EUM I have had many “relationships” that go like this: guy likes me so much, for 1-2 weeks, I start to believe him, return affections, become invested, guy bails. I did have one 2.5 year relationship which was flawed but at least mutual and loving for the most part. Since that ended I went almost two years without dating, and then in the last 6 months I’ve had three brief experiences that went as I described above. I call them “emotional speed bumps”.
I am now at the very beginning stage of a new relationship and I am completely winging it. I am really trying to not rush in, and use this as a discover period, as this blog advises. I have deliberately taken this one slower. I think now, 5 weeks in, I am in the danger zone of emotional investment. So scary….
Add to that, I have this fear that he isn’t really someone I’m excited enough about, but honestly that is very likely because I have this freakish ability to find and be incredibly attracted to EUM, even when they seem the opposite. Those are the guys I feel “the thing” for, and if that’s true, I don’t think that “thing” I was feeling was a good thing at all.
This guy calls me! We spend 3 evenings or more a week together! He tells me he wants a serious relationship! Is patient waiting for physical intimacy! Is generous! Is kind! Has listened and been understanding when I talk about my past experiences!
I wish there was more of exact signs of what TO look for, instead of so many posts about how to AVOID or get away from AC’s and EUMs. What are the hallmarks of available guys?? How can I be sure he’s not a future faker??
I think I just have to be cautions, but not TOO cautious that I become unavailable, and at some point (I’m feeling it’s soon), trust!
I am hoping this guys is a) not EUM, and b) that I can still get the heart flutter for someone AVAILABLE and interested in ME!! (sadly, harder than it should be.)
I am sick of being a dreamer and don’t want to be with a shopper ever again.
you are on your way to answering that question… you get real by remaining self aware and listening to your inner voice when you see red flags.
I can see why people see a MM or Mr EUM. With them you know true score. But if you put yourself back out there, you run the risk of maybe falling in love and getting seriously hurt. I don’t want to get blindsided, cheated on again or get the chop. How does one combat this?
Tyla I also relate to your posts
Like a lot of people on here I had a crap childhood: alcoholism, emotional/physical/mental abuse, cold and distant family, social rejection, no examples of healthy relationships…as an adult , for a long time I’ve wallowed in that background, blaming it for the way I am. But the fact is, I AM an adult and for years I’ve made my own choices, i.e. the same mistakes over and over again, the lesson clearly never learned. And I did it with eyes open. I can no longer pass the buck back to my childhood but instead must own my mistakes.
Amen, Meagen… It may stay with you but doesn’t have to define you. It will surface at times but you can have strategies to manage your feelings about childhood trauma and move on. I grew up with alcoholism and it affected me profoundly but also made me resilient and a coper. I retreated into books and school and that gave me a love of learning and the qualifications I have today. My sister developed her wry sense of humour through some of our childhood situations…its not making a silk purse out of a sows ear…we can use what we endured for the better. I hear what you are saying though…x
Hey, its my 1st time posting but that description of the dreamer has so totally hit the nail on the head for me!!!
I’ve been involved with a guy I work with for the past 6 months following my separation from a 14 year marriage. The guy from work is a lot younger than me and at the time we got together had a gf. We saw each a lot during the time he was with her, texted all the time (when he wasn’t with her, of course, haha!) He was so affectionate and said all the things I wanted to here. Eventually I told him that I didn’t want to continue if he didn’t end things with his gf…..and he duly did! Great right?…so wrong! Seemed ok for the first few weeks then he became more and more distant. I knew it wasn’t going to work and I said it wasn’t what I wanted….meaning I wanted him to see me more etc. He agreed it wasn’t working and ended it!!! Except he didn’t stop texting, and I still had to see him everyday at work (torture!). So, for the past 8 weeks I have been backwrds and forwards in my head, trying to figure out where I went wrong, not being able to let go, keeping the contact going. I’ve realised by reading this that I’m actually still infatuated with the person I thought he was, or was going to be, rather than who he actually is! I’ve been in love with the idea of being in love, because when I look at the situation and him rationally then its so totally not what I want. He’s a cheat, a liar, a narrcacisst, loves the attention, ego boost etc. I was never really myself around him either.
None of that has stopped me from constructing a ‘fantasy realtionship’ in my head, where I get everything I want out of it – something that I’ve realised I do a lot (imaginary conversations etc) and have done since childhood. I now know I need to face up the reality of this ‘thing’, which has done me no good since the beginning and see it and him for what it is!!! Thank you……back to life, back to reality for me, gonna be difficult but I CAN do it!!!
This post resonates with me, completely describes my latest burning heap o’ troubled relationship with the EUM. My question is this: how do we distinguish between the man being geniunely “confused” and us not living in reality? Are there ever circumstances where THEY are “confused” but we can do something to help them along?
Example- the EUM would tell me such things as, “I love you, I want to be with you, you are beautiful and I think we about 90% perfect for each other, but I don’t feel close to you, and it’s because you did X, Y and Z at the beginning of the relationship, and that’s because you are closed-off.” Of course, reading this blog, I now KNOW that is all bs and him blaming me for things I couldn’t change was terrible… but how do we know WHEN to draw the line with this stuff? Is there ever a time we can acknowledge their feelings and have it change/improve? I guess that is what I’m fixated on now. .. BTW, 2 months of NC have been amazing. ..Thank you so much for this blog. Life-changing, truly.
Chica8,
I don’t think it’s ever on us to somehow reason a guy out of his “confusion”. If he isn’t sure whether he wants a relationship with you, that’s your answer right there. While it’s easier to see in hindsight that his comments were bs, I’m guessing that even at the time there was a little voice inside of you saying that it wasn’t quite right. We need to learn to listen to that voice. Whether he’s messed up or wasn’t sure if you two were right for each other, either way, that’s the time to opt out. You deserve more than sitting around waiting to see whether he decides he wants to be with you or can “forgive” whatever mistake he claims you made.
If you’re with a person of integrity who wants to be with you, he will want to work through any problems that may arise (i.e. he will make an effort) rather than making bs excuses and putting the blame on you.
A,
Thank you so much for your response. Heartbreaking to think I ignored myself and waited for this fool…but this is a huge lesson learned. We do not need to bend, wait, hope, pray, think, rationalize our way through this or cross our fingers hoping they will see the light. It’s on me to decide when to stay and when to go. Looking back this seems so obvious. And you are right, this is an issue of integrity, but I see it as an issue of his integrity AND mine… A person with integrity will: 1- DECIDE to be in or out, not stay in limboland and expect me to wait, and 2- will BOUNCE when someone becomes ambivalent. Obviously if he had integrity he would have followed no. 1 and if I had integrity I would have followed no. 2. Lesson learned. Never again.
As an aside, I am so grateful for this website and all of the strong, amazing women here. Sending good thoughts to all of you facing the same stuff I’m going through. NML- you are a lifesaver and have such a gift. Thank you.
Oh, the timing of this post is incredible! I was doing so well–NC for 4 months with my MM/EU/AC…then he texted, said he wanted to talk (I had blocked his emails, and his phone but the phone block was over after 3 months–I thought him hearing that his number/texts were blocked would get the message through his head)….I decided to toss it back to him (STUPID I now realize)—said that I wondered if talking was such a good idea as it nearly cost him his marriage. Got a jaw dropping response back basically saying that yes it nearly cost him that but losing me would be so bad because we are such good friends…yada, yada. I did not respond even though he said he wanted “feedback” (Picturing the form now—Check A if you think he is an AC!).
I read this today after thinking about him and how I had no clue what was real and what was fake with him.
Im sitting here in tears just a few days away from a milestone birthday wondering if I will ever be “right.” I trusted him–knew him from our childhood, he was a good friend during my divorce, and then well, of course the early days were great…of course. I would love to be with a good person but wonder if I will even know one if I should ever find him.
There have been days that I wonder if this past relationship is the best it will ever be–no, I dont want to go back–but I do wonder…Im kind and loving and way too giving but I really dont know any other way…how do I learn what I need to?
ChiTownKitty
ChiTown Kitty,
I can identify with you. I made a mistake of getting involved with a MM over the summer. He came after me and I foolishly fell for him. I’m in the midst of getting divorced so even though I was doing better getting over THAT relationship, I was still vulnerable. The MM/EUM came on strong, telling me all these wonderful things, how he saw a future with me, etc. Then, as I eventually suspected, he backed off b/c he has kids and doesn’t want to hurt them. While I can understand that, it hurt the way he ended things (just kind of blew me off in an e-mail along with tons of excuses). He’s also on medication for bipolar and went off of it prior to ending things, so I figured that played a role, too. At any rate, I find myself thinking about all the “wonderful” things he told me, the brief amount of time we spent together and even the thought of what our future might have been like together. I hate thinking about these things and wasting my time on them, yet, I truly wonder if I’ll ever meet the “right” guy for me. I’m not even interested right now, but I get a little panicky at the thought of being alone in the future. And I think of myself as kind and loving, too. I feel like I frequently get taken advantage of, and I realize I somehow am letting it happen. It’s hard (for me) having a normal, healthy relationship, I guess.
Amy, ChiKitty
Don’t sacrifice yourself on the altar of kind and loving. If you want to be kind and loving, be kind and loving to someone who welcomes it and deserves it. Right now, and I hope this doesn’t sound mean- you’re playing at being kind and loving – you’re fantasising. You can’t be kind and loving to someone who isn’t around or belongs to someone else! You’re courting a fantasy of how you would be a terrific partner but not actually extending yourself by a) treating YOURSELF with love and kindness and all that entails including making difficult decisions for your own wellbeing and b) choosing men who will reciprocate and have genuine expectations of you, rather than just playing a pushy-pulley game with waste-of-time losers.
I have no doubt that you are capable of giving and receiving genuine love and kindness but by continuing to participate in this charade, you’re only actively avoiding it. The question we have to ask ourselves, and I’m working through this myself, is – what are we so afraid of?
Heartache Amy, he hasn’t backed off because he has kids and doesn’t want to hurt them. He’s backed off because he’s married, pretty effed up and he wasn’t leaving anyway. Don’t get things twisted and think that the kids and his humble generosity is what stands in the way of you and him as if the relationship you never had has been sacrificed at the alter for the greater good. It might not be the popular thing to say but he’s full of shit.
oh yes the BS detector went off with the ‘has kids he doesn’t want to hurt’ explanation. I would have had sympathy for that line in my more naive days. But frankly, he seems very out of sight, out of mind about these kids. Where were they while he was weaving his tales of undying love for you? HE was living in a fantasy too, at your expense. Natalie, you made a very valid point when you said Shoppers are also dreamers. They may be more in control of the situation because they have fallbacks (or a wife), but they are no more in control of their own fantasies. I’ll give it to these assclowns that they believe in their own sandcastles at least half of the time. Momentarily. That’s just weak and immature, not what we expect of a grown man.
Thank you so much Nat I have been in a long distant relationship for 4 yrs with now 2 kids. I am a dreamer did not know lol not familer with dating since I have been married for 15 yrs with an abusive man. I met this I guess unavailable man online and he was there while I was going through my divorce and helping me cope. Then when the divorce was finalized(sp) that is when he came to visit and stayed 3 months with me out of a year for 2 years then our fist baby came he came 6 months out of a year. Just had our second baby in June of this year. He as asked us to come live with him but here is the kicker he can not tell me how he feels abut me. He is the controlling type and it has to be on his terms. Well recently I have found out he is also into men I don’t know if he is bi or gay. I do know when I was pregnant with my last child he started checking out women infront of me and denying it. Then he started trying to pick up men also while we would be out baby shopping. And he still wants me to come live with him and he just recently came from vacation with a man he is involved with that was the last straw of course he is in denile of it! I don’t understand why people just waste peoples time. I am very dissapointed in myself shame on me but he acts like this is ok and still plans on coming on Sunday. Like mothing has happend and want us to return with him. Nat can you or any reader please slap me lol. I am a very nice and forgiving person and I always attract the wrong men. I guess this is my destney(sp)
Sandra, I was so shocked reading this comment that I started doing that inappropriate thing I do when I’m nervous or caught off guard – laughing. Bit like when I went to my step grandmothers funeral and my brother unbeknownst to me went to wash the soil from his hands at the fountain, but from where I was standing, it looked like he was peeing in the middle of the cemetery and I nearly wept laughing.
Anyway…I digress. I’m worried for you. Honestly, this situation is like Relationship Crack, PCP, LSD, in fact *everything* all rolled in together. He’s into men. Not sure if he’s bi or gay. Picking up men while out shopping for baby gear. Trying it on with women. Only living with you for a portion of the year while knocking you up. Controlling. On his terms. ON VACATION WITH ANOTHER MAN! DOESN’T KNOW HOW HE FEELS ABOUT YOU AND YOU HAVE TWO CHILDREN! Have mercy! This *is* pure f*ckery.
I have a reader whose controlling husband runs up millions of dollars of debt so that in essence, she can’t leave or at least that’s what he tells her. This slip and sliding man is coming back to fertilise you periodically so that he can maintain control over you while roaming around trying it on with other men and women and shagging them. By allowing him to only live with you for part of the year, you have no idea what he does with the rest of his time. Or actually, you probably do. That said, I also suspect that this cuts both ways as you’d like to think if you got pregnant that someone might stick around.
It’s not about being disappointed in yourself. I’m not sure that’s the emotion to strive for. I’d be damn *worried* about yourself. I don’t doubt you’re a nice person, but I’ve gotta tell you Sandra, you’re getting the prickles of a doormat and being nice mixed up. They’re two entirely different things. You could also forgive him for having sex with other men and being a jackass if you feel like it, but the fact that he *is* doing all of these things means that you should have stopped being with him. Forgiveness doesn’t mean staying together or giving them a free pass to do it again. I also don’t understand why you would ‘forgive’ someone for something they don’t see as an issue that they persist in doing? This isn’t your destiny – this is your now. It’s not about always attracting the wrong men – it’s about not taking the time to work through coming out of an abusive relationship and divorce before going like a moth to a flame to another abusive man who seized the opportunity and exploited it. You don’t need a slap – you need a hug and some help.
Well put Nat, and good luck Sandra. You’ve got some work to do, but you CAN do it. You have some very good reasons to get down to it– yourself, and those kids. Keep reading this site. Go through old posts. And most of all, ask for help. You deserve it. We all do.
And Nat, thank you. I know you hear it a lot, and I hope you know the real gratitude that is out there for your insight, and your ability to help us find our own. Through almost two years of helping me to ‘wake up’ by means of your books and valuable posts, you have in many ways saved the “me” in me.
Julia T, Cavewoman, Runner Girl and Adrienne,
Wow, as always, I read your comments and the others on here and think, “I am not alone, there are others like me”…Julia, I loved what you wrote about “trying make reality more attractive than the dream/illusion” that resonated very much with me and it is so very true! If the “reality” is less than stellar, how very easy it is to get caught up in the illusions of “what could be” which in turn then takes the focus off you and places it instead on the other person.
Cavewoman and Runner Girl, yes, the loss of hope, the death of a dream, these are, I am finding, the most difficult losses of a relationship ending. It is the acceptance that, in spite of all that was said/written/texted that, it all falls apart in the light of day…the illusions shattering. Nothing is more harsh, or more difficult to ascertain, because we let ourselves believe, often shutting out those pesky inner voices that were whispering, “Beware, beware”…this is my experience anyway with regards this.
Adrienne, like yourself, I too, was sheltered and to quote again from Jim Carroll and a poem he wrote called “A Child Growing Up With The Sun”…’and in that shelter I dreamt, it was a running joke between myself and each of the others I believed in”…to be in that place is so familiar and comfortable to me, and there is a feeling of safety within it. I seem to recall that you and I share a love of The Smiths and Morrissey, perhaps?
You are not alone…none of us are and the more I read this blog and the various postings from all these wonderful ladies, the more I realize this.
Many hugs to you all
“the loss of hope, the death of a dream, these are, I am finding, the most difficult losses of a relationship ending. It is the acceptance that, in spite of all that was said/written/texted that, it all falls apart in the light of day…the illusions shattering. Nothing is more harsh, or more difficult to ascertain, because we let ourselves believe, often shutting out those pesky inner voices that were whispering, “Beware, beware”…this is my experience anyway with regards this.”
Very well put, Lessie. Will all this wonderful female intelligence, I am wondering if it takes a brilliant woman to experience (create?) the true pain and despair of being involved with an AC/EU/MM
.
Hi Lessie,
As you can see from the number of comments, you aren’t alone. It is difficult to reconcile the misalignment of what was said/written/texted creating the illusions with the actions which were obviously contradiction. I silenced the pesky whispering voices with my flawless fantasy. Presently, I feel like I’m suspended between reality and fantasy. I really want to get to reality. At least I can see the difference now and I don’t have visions of sugar plum fairies dancing in my head. Darn, just as the Nutcracker fantasy season is approaching!
You sound like you are making such great progress. I know it is difficult and painful journey. Others have made it and so will we. Let’s keep the faith!
Hi Lessie, A big hug back to you, too! (What would Morrissey think about all this virtual hugging?
Who cares!
As I read your comments to me and Runner and Cavewoman, a thought popped in: the fantasy of what a relationship *could* have been is definitely for me rooted in childhood fantasies of having the parenting I yearned for: consistent, loving, supportive. I remember that my next door neighbor and I (he was three years younger) growing up would concoct elaborate scenarios/fantasies about his nice mother getting together with my father and then we could be brother and sister and have the perfect family. Never happened, of course.
But it’s like the fantasy we construct with unavailables plugs into the fantasy from childhood and we hope the fantasy will come true this time. We *need* the fantasy to come true so we don’t have to do the real work of facing the unpleasant truths and actually doing something to heal ourselves and make better choices (tough to break those old patterns, not impossible!).
Loved the poem you quoted!
Funny (or not so) how often the things we do out of habit to make ourselves feel *safe* can be the biggest obstacles to actually creating a genuine sense of feeling at ease in the world. Here’s to creating newer, healthier ways of being !
Hi Adrienne,
Yes indeed, what would Morrissey think of all this?! I have my suspicions but somehow, I like to think he would shrug his shoulders and smile and say something like, “Oh well”
Very much like yourself, I lived in a fantasy world as a child which then became continuing to live in a fantasy world as an adult. I realize now it was a self protective way to be and yet, by its very nature, this “self protectiveness” was yet another way for me to hide away and not be IN the world…and thus, all the many risks inherent with that…Natalie made such a great comment in her post to me about this: “It’s not that the world is dangerous but rather certain people and situations” and this is very true, I know and yet, for me, given my background and issues, I have always had so many fears and these fears have governed my choices and actions.
I am thinking of the Audrey Hepburn movie “Sabrina” (I’m a HUGE Audrey fan) where she says to her father, “I want to be IN the world and not just OF the world” and this is how I am feeling now, or “trying” to at least. Try and look at it this way: we did the best we could at the time, with the tools that we had (which in my case, was very little) but at least now, with this site and Natalie’s insightful posts, we can begin to help ourselves understand and hopefully become more aware so that we can make better and healthier decisions for ourselves…
Of course, I write these things today and then tomorrow, will probably struggle with feelings of self worth and depression. It really is an ongoing internal battle within me. I wish you the very best and am sending many big hugs your way
Adrienne! I had parent-swapping fantasies too, and I felt super guilty about them! – Re: consistent, loving, supportive: I certainly had the consistent part. But my parents were consistent in parenting towards their goals for me, not parenting the real me — so *real* support was definitely lacking and my idea of loving got a bit skewed as a result, too. I realized only now that when I visit my parents (once or twice a year because we live on different continents – yes I’m Unavailable to them most of the year) I find true comfort, that deep at-home feeling in the objects around the house. The furniture, the bedding, the kitchen utensils, the laundry drying on the clothesline… the way the house smells… those *things* that they worked so hard to sustain me with while they were raising me. The *things* meant safety. Our interactions were edgy and vaguely perilous. I was always coming up just a bit short. I was never making them quite as satisfied as they wanted to be. But I grew up in a spotless home and was fed and clothed and provided for in an exemplary manner. My mom is a champion homemaker, she gives loves through food, etc. I cannot be too angry with them about this. They were just a tad emotionally unavailable but well meaning and very conscientious. Okay- my dad with his temper not always well meaning. It was a home many children aren’t fortunate enough to have. So why am I in tears as I type this?
When I hug my kids or laugh and play with them, I feel like myself. When I’m exasperated with them, it’s like I’m channeling my parents…
Hello sister,
reality is stellar… in the original sense! It’s cosmic, it’s huge, so much greater than your or I can conceive of… The good news is, all the good that exists out there in the world far surpasses what our feeble little minds can conjure up. Reality is just bigger than you and me. (Sure, it encompasses a few things that aren’t meant to please yours truly. I got that.) When I remember how I used to curl up in my longing and despair, it just feels… small. I still get carried away in my imagination, but when I snap out of it, it actually feels like coming out of a cramped cave into the wide open. Funny, I didn’t quite realize *this* was the cave when I named myself cavewoman!
While caught in the anxiety and pain triggered by the relationship with the guy who drove me to BR, I listed to this song over and over and over to help me find my way out:
It’s called Precious Illusions by Alanis Morissette, it was so helpful to hear her put into song exactly what I was feeling…it still took me a while to extract myself but I’ve been off the AC/EUM train for a year and feeling so good!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tukqRdtYDoU&ob=av2n
You’ll rescue me right?
In the exact same way they never did..
I’ll be happy right?
When your healing powers kick in
You’ll complete me right?
Then my life can finally begin
I’ll be worthy right?
Only when you realize the gem I am?
But this won’t work now the way it once did
And I won’t keep it up even though I would love to
Once I know who I’m not then I’ll know who I am
But I know I won’t keep on playing the victim
These precious illusions in my head did not let me down
When I was defenseless
And parting with them is like parting with invisible best friends
This ring will help me yet as will you knight in shining armor
This pill will help me yet as will these boys gone through like water
But this won’t work as well as the way it once did
Cuz I want to decide between survival and bliss
And though I know who I’m not I still don’t know who I am
But I know I won’t keep on playing the victim
These precious illusions in my head did not let me down when I was a kid
And parting with them is like parting with a childhood best friend
I’ve spent so long firmly looking outside me
I’ve spent so much time living in survival mode
This won’t work now the way it once did
Cuz I want to deside between servival and bliss
Now I know who I’m not
I don’t I still don’t know who I am
But I know I won’t keep on playing the victom
These precious illusions in my head did not let me down
When I was defenseless
And parting with them is like parting with invisible best friends
These precious illusions in my head did not let me down
When I was a kid
And parting with them is like parting with childhood best friends
I am a dreamer in many aspects of my life so it would make sense that this particular characteristic would transcend to this part of my life also. I’m going to have to go through and read the comments when I have some free time as I love seeing what everyone has to say. I swear, every time I read something on this blog I realize something new about myself that needs to be looked at and dealt with. I think I’m going to start journaling for all of your posts and expanding upon them as they apply to me, what I’ve come to realize, how I can improve etc.
OH. MY. GOD. I have done so much work already on myself over the last year and I didn`t think anything could surprise me anymore, but reading this – it was like “Hello, Gaman! Nice to meet you!” This is ME! Especially the bit about being so caught up in my feelings I am blissfully unaware that he has left the building! Or rather “This WAS me”! Reality is like paracetomol – a bitter pill to swallow but ultimately it makes you feel so much better!
This describes my last relationship to the ‘T’ and I have been waiting patiently on a post like this! I spent almost a year and a half in a relationship that I knew wasn’t “right” from the beginning. It’s like he threw his whole life story on me from the beginning and all these feelings and plans. I thought to myself, “something isn’t right”, but that’s when the rationalizing and stuff began. I figured, “Maybe he’s just a completely honest person that is comfortable with expressing himself”. He would promise trips to see me, me to visit him, of the both of us to travel somewhere but everytime there was an excuse of “I’ve been busy/working”, “I’m broke”, “something happened w/ my sister/brother”, “someone had to borrow $/I owed someone $”, “I’m having heart surgery (didn’t bother telling anyone in the beginning & I have random #s texting/calling my phone telling me “Oh he had surgery/is in the hospital”. The heart surgery was a constant excuse after he figured out I would be so sad and emotionally giving about the situation…”do u want me to come and see you?”…”no, I don’t want you to see me like this”. Yeah right but the next weekend he’s partying it up or sitting around smoking weed. Then he’ll disappear for days/weeks. What were his excuses? I was in jail, I was depressed and ran away, I was depressed and tried to commit suicide, or I tried to commit suicide and had to be locked up in a home without communication. I was on an emotional rollercoaster. I was depressed, losing myself, doing things I’d never do (sending him $, and drinking alcohol to cope with everything). I internalised everything he went through or supposedly went through. I didn’t know what I wanted anymore. Don’t let mecall him on his BS, I would get yelled/cursed at and he’ll disappear and come back blame it on me and then act as if nothing happened. I hated myself b/c everytime I would basically beg him to be there for me like I had been there for him and he would tell me I’m not supporting him enough…blah blah blah. I had never been so unhappy in my life
and he would always say, “well if you’re unhappy u can leave”. I got the courage to leave 2 or 3 times before but then he’d call, say things will be different or I’ll conjure thoughts in my head like, “Maybe I should be more supportive of what he’s going through, what if I leave and …mystery person?”. Now, I see what she means and I would always make excuses for him. I felt like I was walking on eggshells w/ him and if things were going decent or “good”, I expected something bad to happen/an excuse to be made/or him to disappear. I have never dealt w/ anyone like that and never opened up to anyone as much as I did w/ him. Now, I feel so stupid b/c I’ve told him my fears and other things. Since I told him to lose my #, his “family” (some random # again) has texted, saying he’s in the “hospital” again and not doing so well. I honestly believe it was him trying to get in touch. I just told whoever it was that I was busy and to keep me informed. I haven’t heard from him/them since and I knew that I wouldn’t. the reason I broke up w/ him for good is b/c he disappeared for the last time for a month and then randomly called saying, “hi I just wanted you to know that I just got out of surgery”. A week later, “are we still together?”. I just had to tell him how I felt, later realizing I should’ve just told him to f&%$ off and Hung up. thank you so much Natalie b/c you’ve been helping me to get over him. blocked his calls/texts. I’ve never seen this person in my life and he thought he was giving me the moon and the stars. it was my fault for putting him on a pedestal like that. I just want to grow, become my own person again, and learn to live/care/ respect myself.
Bingo! I am guilty of fantasy. Guilty of pretty much all I read on this site! Oh my.
I cannot believe the things I’ve had to address & face about myself over the last few years that I was totally unaware of prior! There was an element of feeling like I wasn’t normal due to feeling anxieties/fears to some degree but I didn’t understand.
How the hell could I have ended up so f*cked up with intimacy, vulnerability & relationships? I know it has to do with my upbringing, but damn!
For me, it was like I’m just being & then due to some very painful certain happenings, it’s like SMACK!- you’re f*cked up & realize some major issues are at play. A whole load of sh*t to face, that can’t be denied & that needs to change. WTF
It all started when I let myself actually get really close and vulnerable for the 1st time in my life and he was an unavailable. So I got burned and this sounds absolutely crazy, but I went into a post-traumatic stress when he just up and left. I know that sounds like I’m some crazy person, but I have never ever in my life gone through that from a break up or have ever felt that extreme, that I can remember. It was a nightmare to the point that now when I think of it, I probably should have seen a doctor; I don’t know how I got through that. Then shortly after, while I was still not well from that, I got together with a new guy, whom was unavailable as well, and got burned again. I didn’t get as close to him and funny, although I’m in pain over the relationship break-up, I feel nothing like that post-traumatic stress one. (I say post-traumatic stress because what I went through was so extreme, I couldn’t understand what was happening to me and was concerned, so I did some research on the net & looking that up, I matched the symptoms of that. I was never diagnosed or anything.)
What the hell is wrong with me? I mean, come on, that’s an extreme reaction from a break up?? !
So since that extreme reaction, to during my last relationship, to now, I have faced some serious issues within me. God, I feel so embarrassed to write this.
So, I cannot figure out- if I came to a spot (with the 1st guy) where I was able to let myself get close to someone and get vulnerable, why did I still choose an unavailable to do it with?
Theories:
1) He was familiar?
2) It was almost like a self punishment to unrealistically remind myself that this is what happens when you get close, so I have an excuse to continue my same patterns of not getting vulnerable?
3) I was ready to get close but hadn’t learned about boundaries, red flags and all that to be selective before I chose the person to get vulnerable with?
Thinking about it, I think perhaps 1 & 3, tied in together? -Because I didn’t yet have the understanding on how to select a good guy, I chose familiar?
Well, at least I can be thankful that I have more knowledge today so that hopefully my future relationship will be better, and definitely this site has been a blessing!
Hi runnergirl,
Thank you so much and yes, let’s DO keep the faith in ourselves and in each other too
I so much appreciate your comments to me but the truth is: even though I may “sound great” I’m really not, at least on a consistent day to day basis. Like yourself, I struggle a lot between the fantasy and reality and mostly right now, I feel as if I have one foot in each of them most days!
“Sugar plum fairies and The Nutcracker”…oh yes, and having studied ballet for several years, I once even PLAYED the role of Clara so you can imagine how ingrained the idea of “fantasy” has been in my life
With the upcoming holidays too, I am concerned that my emotions will be even more fraught with it all so I am hoping that you and the other lovely ladies here will help me through this, if need be, as I will try and help you too, we need to encourage, support and help one another.
Many hugs to you
OMG, you played Clara! How perfectly dreamy. I always wanted to study ballet as a kid but ended up playing shortstop. That was probably a clue.
I’m with you. Fantasy has played such a major role in my life; novels, ballet, books, degrees, music (total Tchaikovsky fan) it’s how I escaped a rather miserable childhood. After this fabulous post, I am starting to move more into reality, I think. Fantasy can be a nice escape but I don’t have to try to live it. As the Nutcracker season approaches, I realize I’ve never lived that Norman Rockwell, Nutcracker fantasy with the exMM or without the exMM or with any of the ex’es or without any of the ex’es. We’ll be there to help and encourage one another.
Natalie, in December, I’ll be celebrating one year of discovering you, BR and all of you. I’ll be celebrating discovering reality. Sugar plum fairies have their place.
Sugar Plum fairy — my four year old daughter is in love with Nutcracker and I just spent the last two weeks watching it twice a day on DVD with her. It was adorable. Do you think Prince Eric is a reformed Unavailable? The dream I think is a good thing for a little girl, as long as the grown woman can hold real men accountable to the ideal and see if there is a difference.
Runner, you were a shortstop! Awesome!
He, he, he, Cavewoman. You made me laugh. Isn’t Prince Eric the typical fantasy? With just one kiss, Clara transforms into the Sugar Plum Fairy Princess and the Nutcracker transforms into the handsome prince, after fighting evil, of course. Oh, if only! God knows, I spent my life kissing (and a few other things) many nuts and when I woke up they were still nuts. “The dream I think is a good thing for a little girl, as long as the grown woman can hold real men accountable to the ideal and see if there is a difference.” Therein lies the problem! Have fun with your daughter and make sure she knows the difference between fantasy and reality when the time comes, hopefully before she is 52!
Yup, I played short. I wanted to dance. When my daughter was born, I dreamed of coaching her softball team. She ended up a dancer and I ended up in the green room fixing her tutu. I still have her unused mitts and her used tutus. Ah, dreams. It’s nice to recognize the difference, finally. Hugs to your Sugar Plum Fairy or shortstop.
Hi phoenixrising,
Oh, thank you so much for your kind and gracious words to me here
I think the experience that all of us share, while certainly being very individual and unique for each of us, is also rather universal too, meaning: until I found this site, I was so desperate for help and understanding into my own situation of what had happened with the separated EU MM that had recently ended and I was internalizing ALL of what had occurred against myself, which, I now am beginning to realize, I have been doing, in one way or another, most of my life…and wow, that, in and of itself, has been such a revelation for me. It’s almost too overwhelming at times.
But, in reading these comments from others, I am seeing that, my situation is not that unique and that so many of us have placed our trust in and opened our hearts to people who were less than deserving of that. Especially with regards to the things these various men have said, I have realized, “Gosh, are they all reading the same book or something” because I then become aware of this particular truth: “It wasn’t just me, it was him too, saying these things, doing these things”…and for that alone, I can never truly begin to thank everyone here who has helped me see this.
Perhaps women such as us who have had this experience are better able to articulate it, and express the almost inexpressible pain that results from it; the most important thing to know is to realize, we are not alone
My very best to you
Bleck … are you following my life somehow Natalie? You have nailed it again. I’m a Dreamer and after reading this I’m not sure how I won’t end up alone forever.
Men in Black, the movie, is helping me deal recovery from my fantasy/demon lover, the ultimate EUM.
Whenever I get lost dreaming/fantasizing about him, I think of the aliens from MIB–On the surface, he seemed like a normal person, but inside there was a mystery alien who did not speak my language and may have been a real dangerous encounter for me.
I have known this man for years, and finally, finally I understand that I never really knew him.
Most importantly, I never knew myself.
Natalie and the readers of BR–thanks for helping me to meet and greet myself in reality
Hugs to all!
Hi,
Great website – thank you for taking the time to put it together. So, one of my best friends and I have fallen in love. He’s getting married in six weeks. We’re both in our thirties. His fiancee would probably top herself if he left her. We’ve slept together; it should have been very awkward but it was lovely. Now he’s talking about not getting married, having some realisations etc. I’ve said there’ll be no more being together with things as they stand. We’re still nattering like we always have – hours a day, but with the love thing going on. Brilliant!
I’m not sure if I get the tone of your post but…
This person, your best friend, didn’t choose you. He’s still with his fiance. Would you really want to be with someone so unsure about your worth?
Secondly, if he slept with you while with someone else, he is a cheater. Have you ever heard what he’ll do with you he’ll do to you? Relationships that start off this way are often doomed from the beginning.
Shyner – “Brilliant”? Sounds like a heap of trouble. That guy has no business marrying this girl when he’s sleeping with his “friend” and no business sleeping with his “friend” when he’s marrying this girl. It’s called cheating. It’s not lovely – it’s deceit and betrayal. Be very careful with yourself here – there’s trouble ahead.
‘brilliant!’ was sarcastic. I’ve ended this stupid situation with him and feel all the better for it. I feel guilty and pathetic but it’s done now and i will learn from this and get on with life. I lost my mind for a bit there and everything you say is absolutely right. Thank you for taking the time to write.
shyner,
We all make mistakes. Glad you’re ending that situation. Good luck!
Thanks. Feel thoroughly miserable. Don’t know how to get our friendship back. I can’t believe he of all people would say and do everything he has when really, he had no intention of leaving his fiancee.
NML,
you are BETTER than any therapist I have ever had!!!
I’m sitting here in tears because the only thing that is crazier than experiencing the fantasy is to be FULLY AWARE of what you are doing–knowing that it is a fantasy; knowing that you go into this mode when your reality is not providing you with the life you want; knowing that the trauma of lifelong rejection has crushed your spirit so hard that you have turned into a shell of a person.
It really is like a disease. Some people use alcohol or drugs whereas I crawl into this fantasy cocoon where I am beautiful and loved with the relationship of my dreams.
As sad and pathetic as it seems, it really is a means of survival.
Crumbs,
I feel your pain. I too have been tossed “crumbs” of affection from an Emotionally Unavailable or dare I say half interested man. It sucks because I genuinely care about him and have become attached to him over the past year and he seems to have no interest in moving our “relationship” forward. Met at work. No, I did not want to like him b/c of that & fought it for long time but could not help it. We have always had a light, flirty, friendly when it boils down to it, friendship. The flirty aspect had caused me to hope and expect more. That and the consistency. He texts me many days of the week, asking how I’m doing, how’s my family, etc. PERSONAL things, things to get to know me. I’ve caught him checking me out many times. Acting like he cares about my feelings. Telling me about himself, his family. Laughing at my jokes, some of which I know are bad! Given me advice and help when I’ve asked him. He even has occasionally called me (note: most of the time the calls happened were after I had asked him to). Told him I was tired of texting so much. Mostly been texts and emails.Last time he talked to me on the phone he started a new conversation with me when I said I needed to get off the phone and do dishes…he has pretty consistently given me the impression that he likes me yet he has not asked me on a date or even to hang out outside of work or even a “lunch” during lunch break. It hurts. We were “cubbie buddies” for almost a yr & got even closer when I switched jobs. Worked a bunch of jobs earlier this year & now as luck would have it he & I are working at the same company & floor again. It hurts because I want quality time with him, more face to face time, to meet up outside work, I’ve told him so (ex. if you ever want to meet up let me know…never been so straightforward with my feelings with any guy before). Earlier this year I texted him asking him what he thought of me. He never answered the question. I asked him recently if he had a gf & he said no. He texted that he was excited to hear I was coming back to the same co and floor!. But now he acts more detached than before. I have been pretending that I haven’t noticed & that it doesn’t hurt me when I’m around him but it sucks. Any advice on how to deal & get over the bad feelings? Please pray for me.
Crumbs,
I feel your pain. I too have been tossed “crumbs” of affection from an Emotionally Unavailable or dare I say half interested man. It sucks because I genuinely care about him and have become attached to him over the past year and he seems to have no interest in moving our “relationship” forward. Met at work. No, I did not want to like him b/c of that and fought it for awhile but could not help it. We have always had a light, flirty, friendly when it boils down to it, friendship. The flirty aspect had caused me to hope and expect more. That and the consistency. He texts me many days of the week, asking how I’m doing, how’s my family, etc. PERSONAL things, things to get to know me. I’ve caught him checking me out many times. Acting like he cares about my feelings. Telling me about himself, his family… Laughing at my jokes, some of which I know are bad! Given me advice and help when I’ve asked him. He even has occasionally called me (note: most of the time the calls happened were after I had asked him to). Told him I was tired of texting so much. Mostly been texts and emails…Last time he talked to me on the phone he started a new conversation with me when I said I needed to get off the phone and do dishes…he has pretty consistently given me the impression that he likes me yet he has not asked me on a date or even to hang out outside of work or even a “lunch” during lunch break. It hurts. We were “cubby buddies” for almost a year and got even closer when I switched jobs. Worked a bunch of jobs earlier this year and now as luck would have it he and I are working at the same company and floor again. It hurts because I want quality time with him, more face to face time, to meet up outside work, I’ve told him so (ex. if you ever want to meet up let me know…never been so straightforward with my feelings with any guy before). Earlier this year I texted him asking him what he thought of me…he never answered the question. I asked him recently if he had a gf and he said no. He texted that he was excited to hear I was coming back to the same co. But now he acts more detached than before. I have been pretending that I haven’t noticed and that it doesn’t hurt me when I’m around him but it sucks. I hate that so many guys play games and won’t just come out and say what they feel instead of making us try and figure it out. I thought he…
Crumbs no more,
Guy’s who want to get to know you don’t do it by text. He is telling you all you need to know, it’s up to you to pay attention, listen, see the red flags (they’re waving about right in front of your face) and act in your own interests. Drop him. That’s my advice, for what it’s worth. He’s got nothing to offer you. Nothing. It’s dead obvious.
Crumbs No More,
I too have recently been dealing with this kind of ambiguous behavior with a guy at work. He finds ways to spend time with me, emails nice comments to me. But there was no asking to do something outside work and it was frustrating. In my case though I just found out he is attached (boy was he hiding it well).
For you I think the key is that it has been a YEAR and he hasn’t asked you out. It sounds like some weird mind games. If it were me I would go NC because you can’t afford the emotional investment. Move on and find someone who wants to give you more than crumbs.
I’m sending good thoughts your way.
Thank you Michelle L and Fearless for the support.
It helps hearing from an outsider’s perspective things can get fuzzy when you’re in the middle of it. I realize now I’ve been in denial for a long time, thinking well if he doesn’t care somewhat deeply he wouldn’t initiate contact at times or ask me personal questions & make excuses for him not asking me out. Oh, he hasn’t had a gf in over a yr, he’s shy, etc. But you’re right Fearless, the majority of times the ways he’s used to find out about me are lazy text/email/IM which shows he is not serious. I will drop him. Going NC. You’re right I can’t afford the emotional investment. That fact smacked me in the face after I cried for over an hr last night after I overheard him & his friend making fun of me for contacting him. I also overheard him saying he didn’t know but that he probably won’t ask me out when his friend asked. His true colors have surfaced. So cruel. Esp when he knows what I’ve gone through emot job wise with mult layoffs & all this year.Why couldn’t he have just told me he’s not interested earlier or why couldn’t I have recognized the signs? He doesn’t deserve me. I would have been honest with him. Michelle L, I’ve reviewed the situation in my mind again & I do think it overall has been weird mind games & the other % him wanting to string me along. He wants me to be “nice” to him, give him emotional support, an ego stroke when he needs it but doesn’t want to spend real quality time with me. What an EUM/AC. I am glad yours showed his true colors soon thus saving you more pain. I feel for you. Sending you good thoughts. Any advice on how to heal quickly & regain more concentration at work? For the time being my team works next to his, luckily I do not have to work with him on projects! but I can overhear him during the work day and occasionally see him in the halls. Eventually I will post out for another position in the co, diff flr at least or bldg but I have to work my current position first for at least 3 months to be eligible. It’s a good job which are hard to come by these days. I want to be strong & move on.
Crumbs excuse me for saying this but this guy is seriously effed up in the head. He texts and emails you all the time but then makes fun of you with his friend. That is just mean. Even if he did just want to be friends, friends dont do things like that to each other. Go NC and ignore him, hopefully you wont feel the need to transfer out of the department and he just have to wonder why he gets no attention from you anymore.
Crumbs,
I’m swith SM – this guy is a cad. He is taking the piss, frankly. Nobody’s that shy! If he wanted to get to know you and date you he would ask you out – you’re not school kids. And he’s making fun of you for contacting him – that should show you what he really thinks about you – he’s mocking you behind your back. Time you saw this guy for what he is – pisstaker. He wouldn’t get away with this crap with a woman who had half an ounce of self -esteem in place. You should address this self-esteem issue or you will continue to be vulnerable to him and others just like him. As for him – don’t bother moving your job – just ignore him! He’s an ass*ole.
Fearless,
You’re right my self esteem has been messed up for awhile, esp since I started spending “time” with him. I know I need to address it and love me more. Part of that has been admitting I need help, finding this site, reading the articles, and asking for advice. Thank you and others for telling me that his behavior has been awful, has forced me to “take of the blinders” and realize that he has no good excuses for any of his poor behaviors. He is a pisstaker. Another example of this…one time he texted me asking how I was doing and me, being fed up with too much texting told him to call me to find out. He texted back “haha.” Who laughs at a normal request? Why would he act that way? Anyways I got upset & ended up venting how I was frustrated with him hardly ever calling , wanted to hear his voice, etc and long story short the next day he texted me that he guessed he would have to call me to catch up. He did call later that day and we had a nice long chat which he seemed to enjoy. Then back to texting/emailing for about a month, then calling again, rinse and repeat. He would give me just enough attention, the amount he seemed to sense would keep me hooked but not satisfied. I have been shocked and hurt from his bad behaviors but am moving on. I know he has behaved terribly overall. NC is in effect. I will ignore him at work.
SM,
Thanks for the support. You’re right he is messed up in the head for joking around with his friend about me caring about him. He should have defended me or told him to shut up and not joined in. That was the part that hurt the most, that he would laugh and make fun of my hoping that he would ask me out. As if that was so ridiculous and forward of me to want especially after his behavior towards me, which though “crumbs” was something. From hearing the conversation he never told his friend about him ever initiating contact with me, just let him think that I was always initiating contact, and completely delusional. It made me question has most or all of our contact been part of a sick game? Or maybe he never thought what we had was worth mentioning to his friend. Is he really that emotionally dead inside that he has no true respect for my feelings after all this time to carry on like that esp knowing they were in my hearing vicinity no less?
I almost wonder if I was encouraged by him to come back there just to get the shove off in a cruel way. Because he refuses to talk about feelings directly with me apparently. His friend went on to say that a girl shouldn’t come over and talk to a guy (about non business related stuff) when he is not asking her out that she needs to “take the hint.” Note: I only stopped by my “friend’s” desk once this week, for a short convo. And of course we had our texting and awkward run ins around the floor. And the other contacts between us prior to that.The joking felt like double rejection/hurt…an ache that I was avoiding mentioning earlier. Thanks for reminding me that friends do not that to each other. You’re right and I was making excuses for him earlier b/c I didn’t want to deal. Brought up more bad feelings. How can he know me fairly well & for so long & like me so little (even as a friend, which I was not opposed to switching him back over to that category in my head before this but with less contact). Now I only think of him as a messed up man who needs help. And I’m not willing to give it to him. He will have to get it elsewhere. And I’m not entertainment. I’m a kind, pretty, loving person who deserves better. I’m tired and numb right now, and enforcing NC. I will get stronger each day and eventually this all will just be a stupid memory.
Crumbs
“I will get stronger each day and eventually this all will just be a stupid memory.”
Yes. It will be, crumbs no more. And that’s all it deserves to be – a stupid memory – but you should also take it as a useful learning experience. You sound like a soft, kind and loving person (emphasis on ‘soft’) and I mean this to try to help you when I say you sound like you need to toughen up; not everyone thinks like you do, not everyone is kind and loving – and def not this “friend”, so try to process the information coming at you from people and not assume they are coming from the same ‘kind and loving’ place that you are – at best this numpty “friend” sounds very immature; sounds like you’ve been twisting yourself into a pretzel hoping to get a proper adult approach to a relationship out of a 14 year old school boy! As they say where I come from – he’s just a wee diddy. Ignore him and start focusing on what’s good for *you*.
Crumbs No More,
This guy has no integrity whatsoever. You must NC to protect yourself. I consider myself kind and loving too but I have realized, finally after all these years, that there are people out there that you must protect yourself from. Please do that, Crumbs–Protect Yourself as if your life depended on it. Fearless is right.
It may hurt for a while when you see him, but you will come to be proud of yourself for being strong and ignoring him, and the pain/discomfort will ease with time.
Crumbs & Fearless,
This is a learning opporutnity. Fearless’ comment about getting a proper relationship out of a 14 year old school boy conjured up neighborhood x-mas parties when my daughter was 8 or so. The neighbor would throw a giant x-mas party and all the families would show up, all dressed in our sunday go to meetin’s. At one of the parties, the little boys, all dressed up in their best x-mas gear proceeded to spin on their heads in the middle of the floor. I’ll never forget my daughter’s response: Mom, am I supposed to be impressed because they spin on their heads?” The girls walked off pretty disgusted. The boys thought they were totally cool. Us parents scratched our heads.
Crumbs, let your 8-14 year-old guy spin on his head with his guy friends. Walk! He’s a wee-diddy…great phrase Fearless.
Fearless,
You rock. Thank you so much for your advice. I feel so much better now chatting with you all about it. A weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I no longer feel alone and confused with that situation. You’re right I need to and will remember the lesson I learned from that relationship.
And I have been too soft, by nature I tend to be a bit too trusting, assume that others are coming from a loving and kind place b/c I am, this has caused me problems and pain. I will remind myself that not everyone has good intentions in their interactions with me, have my guard up, make them start earning my trust.
I have chosen to forgive him for hurting me but I will not welcome him back into my life. He is an immature man-child, I need a man.I will focus on what is good for me. Expanding my social circle, spending more time with God, exercising more, adding new hobbies,etc. Learning to love me more, which will help my next relationship to be much better.
Crumbs also, mark my words, this is his character. I can guarantee you this is how he treats others as well so dont take it personal (I know easier said than done). The only thing you need to do, what we all need to do, is to see these jerks and cowards for who they are a lot faster than we do. If he was ‘shoving you off’ with his comments, then give him what he wants. He is messed up.
Reading these articles is like looking into a mirror! In a way it is hard to read, but also i’m so pleased because finally being able to understand how i react to certain situations means i’ve got a good chance of being able to change how i react, and move towards getting a decent relationship going. Once i learn to love myself of course, lol!
Sigh. Just came across this.
This is (was?) me :-/
Ditto!!! to tired_of_assanova