How To Spot Emotionally Unavailable Men
Also useful for spotting the physically and spiritually unavailable men!
He has a girlfriend
He’s married
He’s recently separated
He has a long distance relationship
He’s very reliant on text messages, IM’ing and email for the majority of his contact
They’re ambiguous about the status of the relationship
You’re not sure when you’ll hear from the next, even though you’ve been dating them for a while
You think you’re in a relationship, but it’s closer to a booty call
He says stuff like ‘If only the timing was different, you’d be the perfect girlfriend’;’If only things were different I’d definitely marry you’
When you try to tackle the status of your relationship or any issues, he either tells you what you want to hear and then returns to his normal behaviour or he just skirts the issue. One way or the other, you wind up back at square one.
He lives with his ex
He shares a bed with a woman that he claims is his friend
He admits that he is dating multiple women continuously
He’s not over his ex – openly
He says he’s over his ex but he’s quietly still trying to cope with the end of the relationship
He mentions his ex or things that happened between the two of them often
He’s an overt mother lover – mummy’s boy
He’s a mother hater – has an overtly negative relationship with his mother
He doesn’t call when he’s supposed to. Ever.
He’s one big walking excuse.
You feel empty after you sleep with him.
He creeps out after sleeping with you even though you’ve been together for a while
He has a stringent routine that he just won’t deviate from – sometimes a sign that he has someone else
He won’t take calls either before or after a certain time – often a sign that he’s cheating
He doesn’t come around to your place until late
He is resistant to involving himself in your life
He talks about his problems, his successes, his life – it’s me, me, me all the way
He determines the momentum of the relationship – you meet up when he wants to meet up
He pushes for an ‘open’ relationship
He never refers to you as a girlfriend, partner or any form of significant other
He uses sex as his way of demonstrating his so-called ‘emotion’
There are pockets of time when he seems to just disappear, and then he resurfaces with little or no explanation
It feels like he blows hot and cold
He’s quick out the gate in pursuing you, gets your attention, and then goes into a slow canter
He tells you that he has a lot of issues that he needs to deal with
He actually says ‘I’m not ready for a relationship’ but is still with you
He says he wants to get married, but there is no sign of a ring, no sign of a date and years are going by
He can’t commit to anything, no matter how miniscule – everything that he’s asked, such as whether he can do something with you is a big drama to get him to say yay or nay
He’s got about as much emotion in him as a stone
He may try and sleep with you on the first night
Your thoughts?
Get ahead on understanding waste of space men and relationships with my ebook, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download. Also find out more about my No Contact Rule web seminar, or if you need personal advice or analysis of your relationship, check out my consultation service.
Ananda September 14th, 2006, 2:49 am
I woud add that the man is careless in his attention towards you.
Angie September 20th, 2006, 3:10 am
When a friend or relative of his ties the knot, he’s certain they’ve made a mistake.
Leeza October 2nd, 2006, 11:47 am
He can’t commit to a bathtowel. And I agree with Ananda. Shamelessly shabby treatment. Glad I woke up to myself
Elizabeth October 9th, 2006, 1:33 am
I agree with he’s quick to pursue, then completely backs off once he has reeled you in. My boyfriend (oops, now ex as of one week ago) would tell me he couldn’t make plans with me because he MIGHT make plans with a friend. I always thought this was ok because we still saw each other frequently. But in retrospect I can see the pattern. For 3 and a half years he ditched my anytime someone else wanted to hang out. The times we saw each other were when neither of us had plans, or in his case potential plans.
Corrina December 9th, 2006, 2:49 pm
I’ve just realised from reading this that I’ve allowed myself to get into a ‘thing’ with an emotionally unavailable man. He lured me in, we spent ‘couply’ days together, talked a lot, he introduced me to friends, bought me a birthday present, but as soon as I casually mentioned that even though I was happy with the arrangement, I did like him, he backed off completely.
I now realise he’s a coward and has no backbone. He says one thing but does something completely different.
Therefore, I have erased both his numbers from my phone and deleted all text messages from him.
If he only wants me on his terms, then I’m afraid he can’t have me.
Kathy February 9th, 2007, 6:46 pm
Way to go Corrina!
I’m sure there are many more ways to spot one.
I might add: that the one whom I dated briefly, relied on his buddies opinions about a woman even when they’ve never met her. His excuse was he had made wrong choices in the past and felt he was incapable of making a right one so he would turn to them to decide.
He also stated that he planned on living alone for the rest of his life, and that, I’m sure will happen.
jj February 23rd, 2007, 7:13 pm
He says that he does not want a relationship but and when you back off from him, he tries to get you back, only to repeat the same pattern.
Susan March 28th, 2007, 3:03 am
He is the KING of mixed signals!! When he is asked to clarify where the friendship/relationship is going, it’s always YOUR fault for being too pushy, clingy, etc.
Rachel April 5th, 2007, 9:04 pm
Totally agree with is really pushy/keen from the start but when you start to show more of an interest backs off like mad. Also, discribes ex girlfriends as ’she was really needy’, I mean what is that about? Just cos you might ask for a change ‘when are we going to get together next’, rather than him, does that make you needy? They want to control the pace of the relationship not you.Lastly, they are very quick to get to the sex thing and when its over that intimate feeling is just not there, making you feel used. Important lesson - if you’re not getting what you want from a relationship, its time to get out of it.
sabrina April 21st, 2007, 10:46 am
This is very familiar, I have just been dumped by someone who I now see is emotionally unavailable. I recognise the majority of these statements… and how hurtful it has all been.
We work together and I was very reluctant to start an office romance, yet he pursued relentlessly and i gave in.
Yet the relationship, had to be kept a secret. I adhered to his schedule. He wouldn’t commit to meeting my friends. There was real pressure to sleep with him. And when we did sleep with each other, the “dates” stopped. he had a super kingsize bed and couldn’t get close enough to the edge the bed when I was in it, so he wasn’t in my proximity! same when we sat on the sofa’s!
He constantly referred to his ex girls friends… so and so got too serious too soon, she was a bit older and was to settle down etc. lots of stories about his ex wife… and any amount about how fabulous the girls at work were.
His favourite suggestion to me at the start of the “relationship” was too “marry him and have 10 ten kids”. What the hell is that all about.
I had no intention of ever having 10 but I mourn the loss of the one or two I may have had with him, which makes it even worse.
But this one would appear to be a little more cruel, he was happy to tell me that I was his partner / girlfriend… just so long as no one else knew.
As a background his ex wife had cheated on him more than once and I think he’d actually caught her. they had a son and she was very demanding of his time to look after the wee boy. work has been a constant source of pressure too…
Yet he had the audacity to incidate I had been causing him to feel pressure!!!!! OBVIOUSLY IT MUST OF BEEN ME, THERE WASN’T ANYTHING ELSE CONTRIBUTING TO HIS BUSY LIFE!!!.
Stupidly, I have now asked if we could try again… and the poor mite is “feeling bad” and if i’m asked I probably will go back to him.
Tracie April 26th, 2007, 4:50 pm
I called my EUM after reading comments on this site the night before. It was so utterly sad and pitiful the way in which he feigned such complete and total ignorance as to whom had he dated first. I needed to know if I was the other woman or was she. He was so mean that I literally could not bellieve this was the same guy I had given myself to so completely for 8 months. To make a long story short, he ended the conversation by advising me not to take my anger out on the kids(I’m a school teacher) and wishing me very good day. I thought that my day would be disasterous and stressful. But being a Christian, I am amazed at what the Lord has placed in my heart- a PROFOUND sense of HIS love/plans for me and my life, and that the man HE would provide for me WOULD NOT be a creep like this one.
I was truly trying to spin straw into gold, begging and pleading for the straw to immeditely do so. I also saw clearly for the first time in my life that EUM are mean, sick, lonely, and miserable people who I DON’T DESERVE because my Father has so much more in store for me than that.
Count this as my testimony of Jesus Christ and who I am in Him.
Stay strong sisters, and know whether you believe in Him or not, God does Love you and wants a lot more for your life than what we have settled for! As for me and my Heart- I will serve the Lord.
“For I know the plans I have for you. Plans for you to prosper and not harm you.” Jeremiah 29
Jocelyn July 1st, 2007, 4:57 pm
I am seeing a EUM. Part of me wants it to end and my desperate side wants to just take what I can get. I keep telling my self that he is still healing from a cheating wife and given time he see the wonderful lady I am.
At 36 I know when something isn’t good, but why do I allow myself to be treated in such a way. I have dated 4 EUM which suggests to me that I have some unresolved issuses of my own.
To anyone who is being ignored, hurt, stood up, insulted and emotionally abused by a EUM, we are worth more than that. I plan on taking my own advise. It is not that bad being alone it is kind of peaceful.
Monique July 17th, 2007, 6:22 pm
July 15, 2007 at 12:52PM
I was seeing an EUM for about 12 weeks but technically not that long because I broke it off twice in the last six weeks. We probably had five weeks of dating (him) constantly calling me ( him) talking about marriage (him) telling me he loved me (him) holding onto me at night like he was trying to melt my body into his ( I sweat so much I almost awoke with an afro) Me resisting and despite having that irritable bowel syndrome feeling in my stomach letting my self melt away into the cloud of his attention on the edge of 23 story building. HAD I MET MY HUSBAND! Actually around the second week I told him not to call me anymore because he went ghost one night and it felt uneasy (IBS)-something did not feel right. So I told him to lose my number and of course he left several messages and texts begging me to give him a chance. That is when he said he loved me and that I reminded him of this grandmother ( no offense his mother is kinda shaky character wise so I did not take offense to being compared to I guess the only positive female in his life- that should have been a sign) Well I should have listened to my intuition then. Thank God I do not hop into bed quickly. (Not judging anyone else) To make a long story short he saw me in my professional capacity watched me (for several weeks) asked about me and asked me out around the last week in April. But neglected to reveal that he and his ex fiance got back together in MARCH!!!! The only thing I can say is listen to your gut the first time. One thing I am proud of is that I was not instantly attracted to him. I had to hear his resume and see some of the actual fruits of it which made him appear successful and driven. ( as the water started squirting from the cracks) Which says to me that the instant rush of being attracted to a PATHOLOGICAL LYING ALCOHOLIC SEX ADDICT IS GONE!!!!
Ginger September 5th, 2007, 5:39 am
Thanx for all the input. I realized it AFTER I read it that I have done it again!! I know this sounds like a cliche but there are deep rooted reasons for everything we do in life. Humans learn things in their family of origin. It is there that I fell in love with my first EUM, my dad. Sure, he was in the home, but certainly not plugged in to his kids. Not able to really bond with me or know me intimately as a dad should. I’ve been chasing his affection in other men for years now and it needs to stop. Just taking inventory girls. My guess is that the EUM’s out there have “Mommy” issues that prevent them from getting close. I know my guy does and he doesn’t want to deal with them. No time for “fixing”. Life is short. Time to move on!
7Towers September 30th, 2007, 6:38 am
Bravo Ginger!
Take it from someone who has thought very deeply about this whole scene .. Most of us women who are drawn to this type man also have a profound unawareness going on within that cultivates the dynamic of the relationship.
You may not choose another man who is a drinker or some other behaivor that is glaring , but rest assured you will pick a man with the same core qualities just different window dressing ..
This is a fact and unless intense soul searching with rigorous honesty is done the underlying causes will remain hidden.
To live with a man like this is truly a nightmare and I don’t dismiss the life killing qualities coming from their part but What makes it most difficult is we women can find so many other woman to complain to for which we will find not only sympathy but an ally to validate how very wicked this man is , but sadly remaining unaware of our substantial contribution to the mix.
Ladies it is subtle , and here in America it is prevelant.
Our men are not behaving as men , and the women can’t help but take up the slack.. Tao help us all…
kaytiej November 2nd, 2007, 10:17 pm
What a great site! I love reading all of your comments — makes me feel better knowing that there are loads of other fabulous, strong women out there who are going through exactly what I am!
I am — or, at least am trying to no longer be, as of a few days ago — involved with an UAM who also has post-traumatic stress disorder. What a mess! I consider myself to be an incredibly intelligent and independent woman, but feel like a complete idiot for continuing to see this man, despite the red flags and warning signs.
Trying my best to follow the “no contact rule” right now — so far, so good. But, I also work with this guy, so that makes things incredibly difficult. It’s so hard to let go, despite the fact that you know THIS RELATIONSHIP SUCKS!
I now realize that this man is a carbon copy of my emotionally unavailable father, minus the alcoholism. So, I’m that little girl, all grown up now, who is still trying like mad to get that man’s attention and love. Pathetic! I want to stop this madness!!
Wish me luck, my forum friends — any words of encouragement or wisdom would be greatly appreciated!
Not His Anymore! November 16th, 2007, 6:20 am
“He is the KING of mixed signals!! When he is asked to clarify where the friendship/relationship is going, it’s always YOUR fault for being too pushy, clingy, etc.”
Totally concur with this. He refused to talk about our relationship for six months, and blamed me for wanting to talk about it; yet he told me that I owned him. I never owned him, and I’m sure I never will.
He’s just a pathetic creature, really… why would I want to spend my time trying to hook something like that?
Zooni January 26th, 2008, 11:16 pm
Dumped a week ago by an EUM who I believed to be my soulmate… together 3 months after 12 months of fancying each other. (Now I know why he never initially pursued me!!)
I truly believe the dumping has happened for a reason because I am finally going to rid myself of all my past relationship traumas.
I have been the nest-builder for 4 men now - preparing them for the next gf who incidentally they have all moved in with.
Sick and tired of it. Thought I’d got it right this time but when I told him I really liked him after 9 weeks I think he got scared and did a runner 2 weeks later - the excuse: the spark was gone and it needs to be 100%!! (Dream on m8 it was there till I told you I really liked you and was feeling vulnerable!)
Sad thing is he spent christmas with my family and me with his. everyone said they couldn’t believe how much he was into me. We looked right together and it was so easy (He said too easy and too serious too soon.hmm think there is mother issues going on here??)
It is his loss and my gain. Since he dumped me I have become so pro-active: I booked my flights to New Zealand for a month, saw a clairvoyant, am putting my house on the market, gonna finish my degree then emmigrate to NZ. I’m really working hard on exorcising all these traumas from my life. No more abandonment issues caused by having an EUM for a father, no more searching for him and no more beating myself up thinking I’m the one with the issues.
I believe we meet ppl for a reason. And you must remember that an ending opens the door for a new beginning.
You are all strong women. Exorcise these past traumas from your life and become the Goddess you are.
Love and light
xx
carla February 2nd, 2008, 3:29 am
Wow!! It is one thing to think that there are other women going through exactly what you are going through, and another to read individial womens’ posts and comments about it!!
I too allowed myself to get involved, yet again, with an EUM. At 36 you would think that I would have figured this stuff out by now, but apparently not!
So I met this guy online and we went out a several times, had great chemistry, a lot in common, and he called me all the time, almost every day. Then, I slept with him. The contact following became random at best, and was via email or text, no more phone calls. I knew right then that he was an EUM, but I acted like the crazy woman anyway, and sent some long winded rambling email asking what was up. After receiving a long winded rambling email in return, that never did answer my question, I decided to just end it, saying I wanted nothing to do with him, via email, since that seemed to be approporiate given the lack of verbal communication.
But then I did the unthinkable!! A month or so later he kept popping up - friends sent pics of us together, he ended up back in my contacts somehow, etc. I decided maybe it wasn’t him after all. Maybe it was me. So, I somehow -maybe through I serious blow to the head?? - thought it best to give it another try.
So, we talked a few times, emailed, had a few text conversations. All well and good. But then we went out again. That was over 5 weeks ago. I still haven’t actually talked to him or seen him since. I mean we played phone tag a couple of times, he emailed and sent a few texts, but only responded randomly.
So, again, I acted like the crazy woman and sent another long and rambling email asking what was up?
Hello?? Am I a glutton for punishment or what??
I realize that this man is a carbon copy of my emotionally unavailable father, alcoholism and all. Yep kaytiej, looks like I too am that little girl, all grown up now, who is still trying like mad to get that man’s attention and love. Pathetic!
It’s just so ironic - we seem to ignore who adores us, adore who ignores us, love who hurts us and hurt who loves us!!
I truly need to stop this madness!!
Cariss February 2nd, 2008, 10:16 pm
Hello, this is my first time commenting here. I had it like Carla but not as that bad.
I was emailing a guy who was from the west coast [ I am from the east coast].
He pulled a disappearing act on me also.
So I just stopped emailing him completely.
It’s been 8 or 9 days since I sent him an email and he hasn’t responded. We both met each other on a political blog.
I know the reason for the lack of interest. He was never interested in me. He put his email out for all to see and respond and like an idiot, I emailed him.
Then I kind of developed a crush on him.
I kept my emails short. His were longer.
But still I sensed he wasn’t all that interested.
Because I emailed him FIRST.
And….after 6 weeks of emailing….he never ever asked for my phone #.
Another LEMON come and gone.
But in my own mind, sleeping with him, let alone going to see him where he lives, were the last things on my mind.
Anyway, the way I see it. When a guy stops emailing or calling, the WORST thing a woman can do is email or call and say “what’s going on?” “Is something wrong?”
A woman should just disappear like the guy does.
Hot Alpha Female February 4th, 2008, 11:48 am
Dam emotionally unavailable men SUCK! Not only do they make you feel extremely happy at times, they can also make you feel extremely shitty at most times.
Hey im sure that these men are really nice people deep down. They just have so much baggage to deal with its not funny. And it’s not worth your time.
The thing is, sometimes attraction factors are super high for these unavailable men. Like what is the deal with that? I think it’s just cruel and unfair at times.
I’ve been complaining about an unavailable man for months. Man it drives me crazy and im the kind of person that likes to have control over my emotions.
The best thing that you can do with these people. Is accept that nothing will ever happen with them and that you deserve so much more! Yeh you have the hots for them, but get over it!
I found that the no contact rule is like the perfect counter for these kinds of guys. I applied the no contact rule to my emotionally unavailable man, told him I didn’t want to speak to him anymore and man did he put up a fight. Send me emails and text even though I told him not to contact me … I didn’t reply to any of them, but then I finally gave in.
As soon as I did, he became distant again - my emotions yet again dependant on whether he would contact me or not.
The lesson learned from that? Go out with better people. In that time with the no contact, I was able to separate my attraction for him and look at things more logically. I found out that he was actually quite immature and a bit of an idiot, someone definitely not worth my time! Now had I not done that … I would still be in goo gaa land about how freaken awesome he was.
So with the unavailable man? Wake up, smell the roses .. And you’ll realize that really you weren’t smelling roses at all……
Hot Alpha Female
http://www.hotalphafemale.blogspot.com
jennie February 6th, 2008, 11:51 am
An EUM is the type of man with who’s been living with you for months but will still introduce you (reluctantly) at parties as his “date for the evening”.
ouch! i should have taken that as a cue to move on rather than a “challenge” to overcome.
Ladies! if it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck, don’t waste your time and effort hoping for it to turn into a a swan because it will not!
Hot Alpha Female February 6th, 2008, 1:35 pm
Hi Jennie,
I couldnt agree with you more. I think that sometimes its hard for some chicks to see through this all because they are wearing the rose tinted glasses!!
I say kill the hope and go out with someone who is deserving of your time and attention!
Hot Alpha Female
http://www.hotalphafemale.blogspot.com
Emma February 9th, 2008, 7:28 pm
I can truly identify with you all my fellow sisters. Christmas 2007 I went to a office party and saw a guy I work with (was quite disappointed that it was him who called me over because I fancied this other colleague.) Anyway, i got so tipsy and he ended up taking me to the top of the boat for some fresh air. he told me that he liked me and asked to kiss me. Initally I just laughed in his face but when he said let’s go back inside i felt this big curious urge to kiss him. I called him back and we kissed. Now let me tell you, from the moment of that one kiss I was completely passionately hooked on him and had to have him for myself. From the monday at work it was constant flirting emails, phone calls and texts but he didn’t ask me out till 2 months later in February! He admitted to wanting to have sex with me and i was so naive and flattered. I was so hooked on him but he kept me at a distance all the time, not answering my calls or calling me late at night. sometimes I didn’t hear from him for days. My friend at work then told me that he had initally wanted some other woman i worked with but she didn’t want him but they would still walk home together and stuff. My friend even told me they go to the cinema and out for drinks every week; he never saw me that often. Even though he was blowing hot and cold (still telling other people how much he liked me including his mum) we slept together 8 months after the kiss. it was good for a while but he started to distance himself from me even more which made me really upset. In the end I told him to stop contacting me because i was falling for him and i didn’t want things to go further as i would get hurt. He pretended I had not said anything and lacked emotion. Up to today he still trys to contact me even though i’ve changed phone numbers (he leaves messages on my old phone) and looks at me in lust and still tries to speak to me at work. I’ve made the message extremely clear to leave me alone and he doesn’t listen. The sad thing is, is that he’s making it hard for me to meet other men because he’s always on my mind even though he’s an a** ho**. And what makes it even worse is that he’s the only guy i think about. i’m trying to move jobs to get away!
SSG February 10th, 2008, 7:26 am
All this sounds VERY familiar. I met a man online back in October, and we immediately hit it off. We exchanged emails and did A LOT of IMing and found we had a great deal in common. I live in the States and he lives in England, and he was adamant about coming over to meet me. He even said I was the woman he’d wanted all his life. Well. I then did the stupidest thing ever, and told him I loved him. He promptly disappeared for three days. He then came back, telling me he missed me terribly and that he loved me, too, and things were great for a few weeks. After Thanksgiving, we had a chat and he started whinging about his “aching lonliness” and “how he was destined to be alone.” He went into a deep depression and I did not speak to him again until Christmas. He was drunk when we started chatting and got even drunker over the course of a four hour IM, even once telling me to “STFU”. (He’d NEVER spoken that way to me before) I broke up with him two days later. We’ve spoken twice since then, but I’ve basically given up on him. I don’t know whether he’s EU or just a tard. Doesn’t matter, I guess.
Mags February 12th, 2008, 2:53 am
I am so grateful I’ve found this site and all of your input
I am also involved with who I THINK may be an EUA man. We’ve been dating a few months but we’re both kind of “Techies” so the text messages, etc. are typical. We talk every night to the point where he only gets a couple of hours of sleep a night. That makes me feel special.
But what I don’t understand is why he is so ambiguous about our relationship. I suppose it is commitment related.
But what REALLY has me scratching my head is why he won’t refer to me as someone he’s in a relationship with. It’s like he is hiding me. I really feel that I am someone a man should be very proud of
It makes me so sad and I don’t understand why the “hiding”. I am introduced to his friends as we happen to see them… he doesn’t invite me as his date to any function his friends are at. Why is this? I would really appreciate advice on this mystery (as least it is to me).
Thank you all again for finding this site and sharing your thoughts and experiences. They mean a lot.
jennie February 13th, 2008, 2:03 am
found two awesome quotes from Marilyn Monroe that i thought were sooo fitting i just had to post them:
“I’m selfish, impatient, and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and sometimes hard to handle; but if you can’t handle me at my worst then you sure as hell don’t deserve me at by best. ”
” I believe that everything happens for a reason. People change so that you can learn to let go. Things go wrong so that you can appreciate them when they’re right. you believe lies so you eventually learn to trust no one but yourself and sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together.”
And by the way i’m on day 17 of cutting contact and Ive never felt more strong, sexy, and in control of my own life! It may suck and hurt at first, but if you can stay strong through the first couple weeks, cutting contact is well worth the effort.
Scott February 15th, 2008, 6:36 am
The estrogen just reeks at this site. None of you women deserve to have a man, what with this crappy pretentious romance-novel approach you have to dating and relationships. You hypocrites bitch about how guys are attracted to just looks, yet you do it yourselves and date guys who are hot jerks! You pick complete jerks to date, shamelessly throwing yourselves at them, then whine about how they treat you like crap! You all deserve the misery you inflict on yourselves.
Siena February 15th, 2008, 4:39 pm
Oh dear, Scott, go away!
Like all the lovely ladies before me, I too was involved with an EUM. HE reeled me in and then grew cold and distant until he needed me to do something for him again. This lasted 5 years and another thing, he never removed his wedding photos and photos of his ex after 15 years! But I am confused as he keeps my letters in which I offer him my loving support.
I know this as I used my key to check his desk…
anyone reason why my letters still may mean something to him?
FinallyOverIt February 26th, 2008, 10:06 pm
I just ended it with my EUM after almost three years of an undefined “relationship” that was a continous rollercoast of emotions–he exhibited the typical “blowing hot and cold”, distancing himself, at times was incredibly wonderful, and then would run away like a scared bunny. I justified a lot of his behavior because I loved him, and my self-esteem was such that I would gladly take whatever scraps he threw my way. I felt that the good times outweighed the bad, and if I didn’t have him, I wouldn’t have anyone.
I know that it is really hard to pull away from relationships, even when they are toxic and poisonous to us. We are so attached to the dynamics of being involved with EUMs because THAT IS ALL WE KNOW. And, like the old saying goes, “you go with what you know.” Most of us who get involved with EUMs have, or have had, distant fathers. So, with every relationship with an EUM, we are desparate to find the love we never got from our father from the EUM. Because, if that were to happen, our wounded selves would be healed once and for all! But, as we know, it doesn’t happen that way. All we can do is move on and the next man who comes into our lives, make sure that we see and recognize any red flags that tell us they are an EUM (those of us who have continued the pattern and who read this website should be really good at recognizing these red flags, ladies!) and WALK AWAY. It’s as simple as that. And then, when we finally find a man that treats us with respect, fulfills our needs and loves us consistently and without fear, we can finally tell ourselves, “Oh, okay so this is what it feels like to be truly loved.” I wish that for all of you! I love this website, it has helped me so much. Thank you, all.
mary February 27th, 2008, 9:58 pm
i thought he love me to,he treat it me like a qween,but i aways knew,was not right from the start,i read all these comment ,and i knew all ,but cose we love them we keep hopeing,but now i am stronger then ever ,they all cheaters,and thats the way they stay,,i was always unhappy,like some of you say here ,we happy when with them ,when they live ,we are sad,mow i got the power ,he is not going to knews me any more ,i am so glad i founf this site ,,,every morning ,when i get up ,i have a cup of coffee and read all your comments,,,and this is makeing me more strong,,,,when i tryed to live him ,he came behind my door,,,i go talk to him ,,he came ,this time i did not ,,he send mesege,i did not anser him,,i feel i am stronger now ,,how long these men is going to use us ,dont let them ladys ,,,8 years i went to hell with him ,no moreeeeeeeeeeeeeeee……..i can write a book the things i been thurgh this 8 years ,but i learend my lesson no more ,,,,,no more ,,,,,thanks ladys ,keep strong ,,,,,
danielle February 28th, 2008, 4:33 am
I just recently found this sight, and like many of you sit here every day reading comments and different pages of this sight hoping for some strenght and courage to do what I need to do.
I have been in a “relationship” for 2 yrs now, if you can call it that. My so called significant other is far from that. I have sat here waiting and waiting for something to change and nothing has, the only problem is that I sit here hoping that today is the day that it will change, and it doesnt. I feel lost and afraid, and dont know what to do.
Its my EUM’s birthday tomorrow, he will be 38yrs old, and I havent seen him for a week now. I mean yea he tx’s me and has called twice but thats about it. Better yet he is leaving friday to go to Daytona for Bike week with all his guy friends for the week, and hasnt even considered seeing me before he leaves (obviously because its now almost thursday). I had back surgery last week and he disappeared for 3 days, and when he did call on wed he never even bothered to come see me and see if I needed anything. The only way I saw him last week was because I went to his house which is an hr away. YES after I just had surgery done, and trying to manage 3 children on my own.
I am a beautiful girl, still have the body of a twenty yr old, but I guess I am just so torn down by these men that I have allowed in my life that I have no self esteem or confidence…. which alotta my friends find hard to believe due to the fact that I was an exotic dancer for the past 9 yrs. I have no retired and am bartending because for the past yr 1/2 I was told by my EUM that it was due to my job that he couldnt have a serious relationship with me, now that I have moved on things are still the same. When I met him he was just recently seperated from his wife and so I figured that it was going to take a little time and freedom for him to commit but still nothing. He has come and gone and yes had told me over that time he couldnt commit, but when we did get back together 7 months ago he said he was ready and he wanted a relationship and wanted to spend his life with me, that he didnt want to live the “bachelor” life anymore and that he was going to try to make this work. Well he had mad some effort the first few months, but still there is always something… work his friends, his houses arent sold yet so we cant live together, he works all day and is to tired to drive here an hr, he loves me but…. he wants to be with me but… but but but….. its going to take a little time….. I am tired of being put last and waiting and wondering and feeling like my needs and what I want doesnt matter, still, I want to believe that what he is saying is true and that maybe I just need to give it some time. I actuality our actual “relationship” has been for 7 months, because before that it wasnt much either.
I read all of this and my mouth drops cause …wow thats my guy…. all these things I;ve heard before, its like they are givin a book. I love him, I really really do, and when we are together things are really great, I have never felt that way with anyone, but no, its not enough. I sit here day after day still waiting and still needing something more. I deserve that. But I am to afraid to let him go, and I dont know why. I pray every night that God help me figure out the right thing to do but one more day just passes by. I think…”ok I’m going to tell him, after this trip you need to give me more and make me a part of your life or I cant do this anymore”…. but 1. I’m afraid to… and 2. Will I really be able to leave when he doesnt?
I Dont know what to do anymore, but I’m tired of feeling this way, tired of the excuses and sitting at home alone every night, tired of not knowing his family and him wanting to show everyone what a great girlfriend he has. What is wrong with me????
HELP!!!
Leila February 28th, 2008, 9:57 am
To Danielle, Ask God to give you the courage and the strength to walk away from this unhealthy relationship. I myself was involved with a man for -ready for this- 12 years. I met him when I was 15/16 and he’s 10 years older, so he had my mind. It took me to leave the state to move on with my life because I knew if I stayed I would continue to get sucked up. As I sit here today, I just want to cry for allowing myself to be devalued and disrespected. Looking back I had no self-love, low self-esteem and no self-worth. Here’s an example, the girlfriend he was with and lived with while I was “waiting” on him, he left her I got pregnant and he went and lived with another woman with 2 kids(not his) and to make mattes worse since the state I lived in I had no family in just him -I ran away from home when I met him. It gets worse, I too use to be a exotic dancer but once I got pregnant I said I would never come back so after I had my baby the job i was working wasn’t cutting it financially so he convinced the new girlfriend to watch my baby while I was at work. I didn’t have a choice because I didn’t have the money (he paid my rent but that’s it) , so I had to go there every day and let me tell you the pain I can’t describe. The job I worked for I worked 6 days a week and this new girlfriend didn’t work at all, he took care of her. But that pathetic unhealthy relationship is over with, I’m back with my family. So my message to you is don’t waste another second, another minute because you will regret it. You see all the signs so did I but I chose not to listen. If you have to ask for more time, more him then that should tell you something. Open your eyes. He doesn’t love u he’s just a selfish man that will hold on to you so no one else can have you. Let him go, it’s hard but God got your back and besides most importantly this type of relationship isn’t good for your children .
internetgirl38 February 29th, 2008, 1:22 am
Hi peace and love ladies, Danielle sound like you don’t actually have a man, just the dream. Emotionally your man is a corpse so bury him already! You’ve got to toughen up and take control of this situation. There is nothing, I mean nothing you can do to get these kind of guys to do what you want or give you what you want. He is not around anyways so move on. How could he not see you during your back surgery…that’s cold blooded. What is it that you are afraid of…telling him what you want will make him leave? Well he’s not around anyway…what are you losing…lonliness, broken promises, callus behavior, neglect,feeling like your always off balance on a limb, scared all the time? Why hold on to that? You are living in a near constant state of panic, fear, and saddness. For what? A few rare moments of bliss? When the bad outweighs the good is time to go girl. You should be past furious at this man…you don’t deserve this type of treatment.
Please reclaim your dignity and attach some value to it. That’s what I had to do to get away from these type of fools. Make your dignity and self-worth, and pride so valuable you won’t tolerate anything but the best. It makes chucking these fools so much easier and is in fact, very satisfying. Why don’t you tell his family what a rotten boyfriend he is when he starts singing about how great you are, then finish by telling them that you are too good for him, you deserve better, and your leaving his sorry ass to find yourself and someone better. Tell HIM that excuses are like assholes…everybody got one and his time is up. Break up with this man…and unless his is willing to change his ways AND commit don’t give him the time of day. In fact, I would disappear just like he has, when he calls be busy…better yet be out meeting people. Join meetup.com in your area and start your life out loud. Spend some time on your self and heal this guy has put you through the ringer and it sounds like you are ready to leave you just need the final push and you are afraid of the unknown. It’s going to be hard…it’s always hard to get over a break up, but we all have done it and you can do it too. There are wonderful men out there waiting for a wonderful you to happen to them, but its not going to happen if you don’t leave this guy and commit to getting better and feeling better and going on with you life. It’s okay to love someone and do absolutely nothing wrong and they don’t love you back or they leave, mistreat you, etc. You have done nothing wrong by loving this man…but staying with him and not getting what you want is the part that is wrong in addition to him pulling you along. Cut off contact now and take a deep breath tell your friends and family whats going on and lean on them for support that’s part of their job. They will help you and you won’t be alone.
scales February 29th, 2008, 9:22 pm
I also have a story to tell. I met a guy online two months ago. We hit it off really great, but I was cautious because he was only a year out of a bad marriage. He told me he loved me about 2 weeks into our relationship, I said nothing. He panicked and told me he hoped he didnt screw up a good thing by saying this. I promptly reassured him that he didnt and within a day or so decided I was ready to tell him I loved him too. So things are going great, we talk for hours every night, He lives an hour away and one day gets his cell phone bill. Its a thousand dollars! He sais it doesnt matter, that money is no object. He tells me Im awsome, that with him Ill always be safe, loved, beautifull. So here is this perfect man. How can I not fall for him?? Just two weeks ago he gives me a gold ring with diamonds and all…and then it starts. He is making promises he doesnt keep, Im letting him know that Im disappointed, but that I understand. He cant see me last sunday cause he has lots of stuff to do. So I email him that I miss him terribly and hope everything is ok, I tell him I love him. He emails me this message: ” I hope you didnt forget where it sais in my online profile that Im looking for someone secure and independent”. Ouch! Two months of perfect(maby I was blind) and then this? It goes on to explain how he tried to please his wife for 10 years ..bla bla bla. He is having a flashback to his marriage. I email him that i need more from him…He emails back telling me about his day and asking me to dinner on friday!? Like nothing happened. So I agree to go and I havent heard from him since. Three days now, dinner is supposed to be tonite. I want so desperately to confront him and ask him why? And I havent (i shouldnt right?), thanks to a friend who made me swear i wouldnt contact him first. I still hope but deep inside I know its done. It feels soo bad! Ive seen this before, my last two relationships. It seems that I do attract this kind of man for some reason. And the first thing Is always to ask “what did I do wrong?” I really hope I learn my lesson this time. If he does contact me again, what should I tell him? I am so glad I found this site. So many wonderfull strong wemen here. It really helps to know Im not alone.
FinallyOverIt February 29th, 2008, 10:03 pm
If he contacts you again, I would tell him that you realize that he isn’t emotionally ready to get involved in another relationship yet, and that you do not want to continue seeing him. This sounds a little different to me than the typical “emotional unavailable man” because it sounds like he is capable of having a relationship, but he is still healing from his failed marriage. I would chalk it up to bad timing, and move on. It obviously has nothing to do with you–the only thing YOU may have done wrong was put too much faith and trust into someone that isn’t ready for a relationship yet. I also think it’s kind of weird that he would give you a ring after only such a short time into the relationship. I guess for me that would have been red flag, but I know when emotions are involved, you don’t always pick up on those red flags. Don’t beat yourself up about this–learn from the experience, and keep your head held high!
danielle March 1st, 2008, 9:12 pm
Dear Scales,
TRUST me I know how you feel. Your story sounds kinda like mine, with less time involved. My EUM always did that to me, he would get involved and start making a relationship with me and when we’d start to get close and I’d bring up “US” and where our relationship was going he’d either pull a disappearing act or turn it around and make me feel like I was doing something wrong by trying to talk about our relationship. I could never understand what the big deal is and now I am starting to believe that a man that is untrustworthy doesnt like to answer any kinda relationship questions because if he does and doesnt answer truthfully he is then lying, BUT if he doesnt talk about anything and finds someone to go with the flow, then he isnt lying or being untruthful, because he never had to answer. Might be wrong but I know that my guy got away with alotta crap, and I allowed that to happen.
I will not try to give you advice because I am also in this crappy situation, my EUM , as I wrote in my last post, asking for advice,…. has now been pretty much avoiding me. He was supposed to leave today for daytona and I had asked him to call last night so that I could talk to him. Not only didnt he call to talk to me like I asked he never even cared to see me before he left for his week full of fun with the guys! yea great….. I went into work last night after not hearing anything from him last night, he decided to tx me at about 10:00pm, I was so upset that I had decided that I was not going to answer, of course after a few more tx’s I gave in, hoping to get an appology or hear something that would make me feel better but it never happened and all he did was talk about him and how he was on the road to Daytona….. not only was I hurt but I felt like an ass again txing him back and not letting him sit there and think about why I could possibly be mad. But my whole outlook on that is that I feel as an adult, with feelings, that I should have to play games with someone to get them to think about their actions. And really what difference is it gonna make. Anyway, our conversation was short, I did try to call last night after the few tx’s he sent but he didnt answer, which is probably a good thing because I was so furious for him just totally disrespecting me, and my feelings, that I would have flipped out. Still no word from the EUM today and I really dont care, its easier for me if he doesnt call. because I def am not calling him. Just need to get enough “balls” or get mad enough to totally cut him off. have thought about giving him an ultimatum but I’m almost sure it wont make a bit of difference.
I feel sorry for your pain, but hope that you realize that you’re not alone and that there are so many women in the same position, making the same choices and mistakes, but hopefully, through this sight we can lend an ear, some advice or just share a story and with a little time and courage we can feel better about getting ourselves out of the situations we’re in. I wish you luck and thank all of you for any advice that was also given to me. And appreciate any more comments and advice anyone else has. this sight is making me a little bit stronger one day at a time, and being a single mother of 3 kids, I am sincerely appreciative of finding this.
Love to all…..
scales March 2nd, 2008, 1:37 am
Your words of encouragement are making a huge difference. Its been 4 days without a word!! I still cant believe it. But Im slowly remembering little things that I said that slowly pushed him away. Like when I told him that I was feeling sick the other day and with a laugh added that it was the same feeling I had when I was pregnant. Another time when we agreed to spend two days in a row together I told him with excitement that it was going to be like a “honeymoon!” Then another time we talked about the possibility of us working the opposite shifts( he is a firefighter, Im thinking of becoming a cop) and I said with a laugh that if that happened we’d probably get divorced before we even get married! I see now that subcontiously I was already planning way into the future. Mistake!! Mind you he totally gave me the green light. These seemingly innocent comments must have set off alarm bells in his mind. I guess the lesson is keep your heart to yourself untill you really get to know somebody. He didnt deserve my love and devotion. We must remember to love ourself first. Be compassionate toward ourself. Ask yourself, would you let your little girl(if u had a daughter) get treated like this? I know the answer to that and I hope to give myself at least half as much reguard as I give my child. After all we are the biggest row models to our children. Ill leave you with this quote ” the love I want begins with me”. So Ill do what my friend did for me these last 4 days. To you Danielle and all of you who continue to suffer: HE DOESN’T DESERVE YOU! Trust in the godesses that you are and move on. NOW!! Love to all.
P.S. I considered pawning the ring and going to get a manicure, but I think Ill wear it to remind me to be smarter next time.
danielle March 2nd, 2008, 8:15 am
Dear scales,
It is NOT your fault, you did absolutly nothing wrong by saying the things that you did. And if thats what he hasn’t contacted you over then screw him, he doesnt deserve to be in a comitted relationship with you. Speaking from your heart and fantacising about a future with the person we are supposed to be in a relationship with is not wrong, and only now am I starting to realize this. I actually cant believe my eyes that I am saying this because, I need to take my own advice. we dont deserve to be neglected and have all of our dreams shattered by a man that doesnt want to commit.
My guy hasnt called me either, and like I had posted the other day, it was his birthady thursday, not only didnt he spend it with me but when I had asked him to call me so i could talk to him I got a tx instead. He left yesterday (fri) for Daytona for a wk with his friends but didnt even bother to see me before he left……So TRUST me I understand and this was only one of may that I allowed him to pull on me in the past 2 yrs.
I do have 2 daughters, and you’re right, I would kill someone if they did this to one of them, so why do I continue to subject myself to it? I still dont know…..false hope I guess…..but all I have really gotten is alot of broken promises and lower self esteem. I hope that I, along with all of you suffering, can find the strength to be strong and let go.
You sound like you might be ready and further along then me!! But I do know that you shouldn’t feel like you did anything wrong. We intend to blame ourselves for their unavailability, but its not us. we deserve the respect any other human does….and a real man would not run from those simple comments, if he did, that should show you that he’ll prob run from even more serious issues if you did get married. And you dont need that. WOW i seriously need to take my own advice!!
your not alone and alot of what I did say I have just learned by reading the book from this sight that you can buy and download, which is called Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. So far very interesting and eye opening. So maybe try that out. But I wish you luck strength and courage to take control and feel better. Hope that for all of us!! xoxoxo
scales March 2nd, 2008, 5:26 pm
Danielle, I see you getting stronger already! Just stay on that track. I am further along than you only because It was 2 months for me not 2 years. Today is day 5 and I am starting to see more clearly and you will too, maby at day 60, but you will. You know, after I posted my last comments I felt a rush of goosebumps come over me. It was a good feeling. At least here there is a chance that what I say will make a littlebit of a difference in someoneelses life. It helps the healing.
leagirl March 6th, 2008, 6:43 am
Well Ladies….I have to say that I have all your comments and have been in a 17 year relationship 14 of those years married….how the hell did I let myself get so deep into this man. Something clicked in my head late last year that this person is emotionally unavailable….all that time I didn’t know what to call it. Now that I have been reading about EUM’s it painfully obvious. Its true they can’t hardly commit to anything. If it isn’t their way its no way, no compromising. Communication is null and void and if it brought up, its a “big” problem”. I have put alot of time and effort into this so called relationship but it has been me the whole time being the glue which is why we are still together. I am at the brink of leaving now…its never too late, but its late and the cow has jumped over the moon…dealing with emotionless people is difficult and I advise anyone If in a online, or regular dating relationship to make sure that you state up front that you have no time for EUM’s.
No Matter how Passionate the Sex is…that person will leave you feeling empty once its over. EUM people they may care for you, but you will never get the love back that you give. Many women have the problem of trying to fix which is what I thought that I could do….Believe me I know now
jennie March 6th, 2008, 7:02 am
okay, so i relapsed after week three of cutting contact because of the super sweet e-mails he sent me and the lonliness i couldn’t shake. things were blissfully happy for two weeks and that’s when he started back into his routine of no call, no show, no apologies. shortly after that i was sitting in the car listening to him go on and on about his promising local band and how he’s going to be a famous celebrated celebrity rockstar and nothing will stand in his way.
“i don’t want to be with a rockstar,” blurted out, “i want the guy back who i had in the beginning.”
he then went on a tyrade about me not believing in him and not supporting his dreams.
but what about my dreams? I want to settle down and raise a family in this little nowhere town he hates so much. someday i’d like to have the financial means to stop stripping and go back to school. i want a partner to support me in my goals and dreams too. and i refuse to be second best to a bunch of his looser band member buddies!
so with that he left and i watched from the driveway. i’m more disappointed in myself for allowing him back into my life only to be left crying in the snow alone after his car pulled away.
This time around i am allowing myself to cry, forget everything anyone ever said about being strong. cry yourself to sleep, cry yourself sick as long as noone is watching, and when you wake up in the morning it will be a new day, one that will hurt less than the day before. At some point I expect that i will run out of tears and tissues. after mourning my broken dreams and the loss of what could have been, i expect to move on and grow from this experience rather than to let it break me. had i stuck with the original plan of cutting contact, although it was hard, i wouldn’t be going through this again.
NML March 6th, 2008, 7:55 am
Jennie, sometimes it takes the experience of going back to put things into perspective. You need to let go of this fundamental thought and desire: “i want the guy back who i had in the beginning.” He doesn’t exist. What you are getting is what he is. If you imagine that he blows hot but always goes back to cold, you are asking for him to always be the ‘hot self’ when in reality, he is the lukewarm or cold self for the majority of the time. You haven’t adjusted your perception of him to reflect the fact that he is not behaving like the man you first met. Don’t make the mistake of assuming that if he was like that in the beginning that this is the real him. It was the beginning and we’re all putting on our best self at the beginning but for many it’s not the real them. Be careful of betting on potential or placing your dreams on a man who will consistently under-deliver.
I hope that you start to feel better and heal soon NML x
FinallyOverIt March 6th, 2008, 6:32 pm
Jennie, your story made me sad. It is heartbreaking to love someone who cannot love you back–the operative word here is CANNOT. I believe that EUMs are totally incapable of giving love to another human being. I feel sorry for them, because in the long haul, they are the ones that are missing out on having healthy, loving relationships. But we will survive these heartbreaks, and we will be the ones to eventually find happiness either with or without a man! This website has made me realize how many women are going through the pain of unrequited love with EUMs, and yet are surviving and moving on, and are learning from these sad and painful experiences. As each day goes by after “dumping” my EUM, I am beginning to see him for what he really is–I am no longer blinded by love, and little by little I am seeing that he is a sad, lonely little boy who doesn’t have a clue about how to connect with a woman in a truly loving, compassionate way. I think that is sad.
Jennie, I hope the best for you–stay strong, and believe that the pain you are going through now will eventually disappear, and your future holds wonderful things for you.
Porshee March 11th, 2008, 12:49 am
This website is totally awesome,I’m glad it exist.. I will visit here often…I just figured out the guy I was seeing for one year…
Porshee March 12th, 2008, 12:44 am
Finally over it, I really like your comments… so tell me…You said you was involved with this guy for 3 years right? I don’t understand when me are EUM why theb do they choose good women to jerk with emotionally when they know their motions is not present…the guy I was seeing frustated me for one year…I just couldn’t figure him out or understand if he was a player or what… all I knew is I didn’t know where I stood with this guy and he wasn’t like any other men I have ever know…When I was with him I was ok but when I wasn’t with him boy was I so lonely… truth is I was lonely while with him apart from sex…that was all we really had in common..this man never really tried to get to know me… he persued me until he thought he had me then it was when he was available to see me…My question to you is why do they stay in whatever they call it with you for years when they know they are not about or going to commit at all to any serious relationship? they guy I was seeing called us just kicking it..Friends with benefits sortof speak… I say was seeing for I’m done with him…. I was not going to allow myself to waste another year of my life with a man he can’t commit to me, only can perform sexually..women need so much more than that, besides what is empty sex…although my feelings became strong for this man, I knew I loved myself first and that I deserve so much more for I am a incredible woman…I was settling for so much less.. I thought this man was colder than the north pole, heartless and very empty…he donb’t care about nothing except himself I guess.,.. but I do realize UEM has to be very lonely for I believe they do want a relationship more than us all but they just can’t…so that has to be a sad indivuall,,, write me back…
getting there March 14th, 2008, 5:43 pm
i just ended a relationship with an UEM.. and I have the book on line about UEM, and it’s so so true.. This has been so hard the last month or so, but all the signs are there, and he’s still creeping in thinking we can be friends. I have officially started the NO CONTACT as of today.. I will keep you posted.. it won’t be easy, but it’s time to think about me for once…
FinallyOverIt March 14th, 2008, 8:11 pm
Porshee and Getting There–Hi ladies, yes I was with my EUM for 3 years, but only in “friendship”. We were never intimate, except for making out once when we were both drunk, but that happened about two and a half years ago! Three weeks ago I told him I could no longer be his friend, and he walked out of my life without a fight–without a word of even trying to keep our friendship intact. That hurt, but I know it is for the best. The hardest part of ending a “relationship” with an EUM is that your heart tells you one thing, and your head tells you another. In your head, you know you did the right thing, and I KNOW I did right by saying goodbye to this man–my therapist tells me that I missed (actually, chose to ignore) all of the red flags that came up after I met him to let me know that he was emotionally unavailable, and would never be able to give me what I needed in a relationship. But, I carried on with a friendship with him, hanging out with him, going to lunch and drinks with him, etc., etc. And in the process of doing that, he shared things with me about his life, allowed me to get to know him enough to fall in love with him. But it was never a two-way street. Most of our conversations were about him and his life. He shared a lot of his stories with me, but I couldn’t reciprocate. But, now that he is out of my life, my head keeps telling me “You did the right thing, he isn’t worth your time, he will never be what you want him to be…” But, my heart– my heart will not lie to me–this is what my heart is saying–I miss him, I miss his smile and his eyes–I miss hearing his voice, and his laughter. I miss Riley (his dog)–I am breaking into over this, but there isn’t anything to grieve because there was never anything there to begin with. There is nowhere to go with these feelings. How can they even be validated because I never should have had these feelings for him to begin with? It’s a pretty lonely feeling. But, that doesn’t negate the fact that I made the right decision. I have to work with this man, and I see him every day. That makes it extra hard, but I am a strong woman and I will get through this. You guys will, too. Just don’t be hard on yourselves because you cared for an EUM. I believe every experience we have that hurts us makes us stronger, and that much more ready to break this cycle of wanting men we cannot have. Again, this website has been my “therapy” during this rough time, and I feel like you guys are my own little support group! Thank you…..
Claudia March 17th, 2008, 8:23 pm
I was dating/seeing a guy who would always cancel plans with my last minutes…he would call me and tell me we should hang out and I would plan for it and get ready, and he would call or sometimes not, and cancel. He was still in love with his ex girlfriend, but tried to assure me that is totally over. Which it wasn’t, b/c he actually told me that they met up, while we were talking. We ONLY hung out when it was convienient for him. Whenever I would suggest doing something, it wasn’t good enough. I learned that he was a total flake!!!
Charlie March 18th, 2008, 10:58 am
Oh dear! I can relate to what you are all saying so much. I need to lose my EUM now as only dating 2 months and I can see all the signs. I am going to get really hurt. Tried to end it a couple of weeks ago but he turned on all the charm and said his “coolness” was just so he didn’t scare me away. Part of me still worries that I have read him wrong but……contact is mainly by text when it suits him, he never arranges the next date but has a tantrum if I can’t then go out, was like a stone emotionally when I shared my really bad day, is going on holiday at end of week but has not arranged to see me before, when with him he treats me like a princess and we have a great time but then he goes cold for a couple of days……need I go on anymore? I’m dating one aren’t I? Tell me to get out now please!
FinallyOverIt March 18th, 2008, 5:17 pm
Yes, Charlie, the red flags are flying! I would move on before you spend any more time with him, because the more attached you get, the harder it is to kick ‘em to the curb! Hang in there.
Charlie March 18th, 2008, 8:50 pm
Oh no! was determined to end it today but he has work leaving do tonight and celebrating and texting me constantly and don’t want to spoil his fun? I know he is still seeing lots girls and I am seeing others so I am not that perfect. Think it is a case of EMU meets EFU! Maybe I am wrong as I am not that emotionally available and have happily played game but have started to get attached and so has he. Know I need to escape but struggling………..
FinallyOverIt March 19th, 2008, 3:43 pm
Charlie, no one can tell you what to do, only you know what you are truly feeling inside, and you must have faith in your decisions, whether it be to stay or go. Sometimes it isn’t so cut and dried, however, it’s good that you are realizing that there could potentially be problems down the road. If you are not exclusively seeing this man and you are okay with him seeing other people, then I would just have fun with him and see what happens, and maybe try not to over-analyze it. That being said, if you were in this relationship for a long time–like over a year– and you were feeling this way, then that would be the time to start thinking about whether he is going to be able to give you what you need in the relationship, and if not, moving on with your life. Hope this helps!
alison March 19th, 2008, 6:43 pm
oh my goodness! this is great, all these posts ring a lot of bells… here’s my story, would be very greatful for any advice!
Have just come home from several years working in Africa in the humanitarian field, lots of hard work, fun and flings - not the ideal place to build a stable relationship! Following the advice of friends, concerned about my seemingly permanent single status at the age of 31, i reluctantly join a dating website.
So.. the very first man i meet, first date early January, sparks fly and i return home starry eyed convinced I have met the man of my life! He spent the next week bombarding me with emails and texts to the point where I got a little freaked out while enjoying the attention all the same. We chatted on msn most days, had a second date, then a third, all going well. He swept me off my feet with his combination of charm and awkwardness. Says its been 4 years since his last relationship and I believe I am the one to get him out of that rut.
Then, bam! he cancels the 4th date with no warning whasoever. Apparently it coincided with the markets crash in February and had an impact on his work. Since then… nothing. He says he’ll call, says he wants to see me - nothing.
We arrange a couple more dates, he cancels. Always last minute, always work related excuses. So i get all upset and decide to delete his number from my phone and let him contact me. I then send a (not too crazy, was quite reasonable i think!) email demanding an explanation. no reply.
Eventually after a few days silence i get a pathetic reply via msn (believe it or not I made first contact and said hi when i saw him online!) He apologises for not getting in touch, he’s been in hospital with stress-related back problems.
So of course, i feel terrible for being so self-obsessed when he is obviously suffering.. i go round with gifts, check how he is. He acts all bright and cheerful when he is obviously feeling terrible. All very strange and awkward. But he still insists he wants to see me, that we’ll do something over easter..etc.
That was last week. Since then - nothing! So after a couple of days, completely confused by his silence, I send another email telling him i think he’s a great guy but i am definitely getting bad vibes, he’s obviously no interested and i just want to forget it (admittedly not the smartest move, but once you’ve clicked “send” there’s no going back!).
No response to that one either…
This evening, still no response.
Am 50% angry with him for not getting in touch, 50% worried about his health and wondering if I am being too impatient when he is obviously going through a bad time.
and am 100% certain that whatever I do, it will be the wrong thing! and in the meantime just keep obsessing over those first few dates when everything seemed perfect and totally don’t understand where the turnaround came round.
I am hugely confused..and just keep thinking that if we can just get through his health problems everything will be fine.. but at the same time, i don’t know him well enough yet to judge if it’s his stress or ME that is causing him to withdraw..
i just dont understand WHY anyone would conciously act that way? i keep thinking he must have some major issues.. and i want to help him solve them.. am i being totally naive? why doesnt he just SAY if he is not interested? surely that would be much easier for both of us?
So - am i being too harsh with someone who is obviously suffering from stress? or too naive about the whole thing?
Should I persevere, swallow my pride and play nurse for a while until he gets better and see how it goes? or should i just ditch him?
It is the first time anything like this has happened to me, I am used to focussing on my work! And am really unhappy with the way he invades my every thought, every minute of the day!
Any advice please?
Karen March 19th, 2008, 11:55 pm
Alison,
For someone to keep making dates and then cancelling seems a little strange. I would back off and let him make the next move. You would be surprised how many men will play this kind of game instead of just coming out and saying they are not interested. It happens all the time. There could be several reasons why - maybe he is scared to tell the truth, maybe he isn’t sure how he feels and needs to sort it out or maybe he is seeing other women. But it seems you have been the one making contact lately so I would definately leave the ball in his court and see what he does with it. I was, still am involved with a EUM but he doesn’t make dates and cancel last minute, he just doesnt’ make very many of them to begin with. I would be very upset if I cleared my schedule for someone and got ready for a date just to have them cancel last minute. Everyone has emergencies, but that shouldn’t be happening over and over again.
Charlie March 22nd, 2008, 11:57 pm
Thank you Finally Over It for your support. I did end it just before he went away. He actually then sent me a text when I ended it saying how much he will miss me etc. etc. and he will contact me on his return. Which bit of its over didn’t he get (or accept)? Can’t imagine he will accept being dumped as too arrogant. I told him again not to contact me please on his return but I suspect he will still try. So……2 weeks where he can’t contact me and 2 weeks to prepare for coping with his next plan of action. Anyone any thoughs on what he will do next? I suspect he will persuade me to go out and talk, try and charm the pants off me, hook me in again and then go cool for a few days? Back to where we started.Was going to delete his number but then thought that better to know he is calling so can reject call and not get cuaght unawares but am also worried that in a weak moment I text him. Had a great date tonight and need to focus on the nice, effort free, drama free, normal guys I am dating. Ta xxx
Charlie March 22nd, 2008, 11:57 pm
Thank you Finally Over It for your support. I did end it just before he went away. He actually then sent me a text when I ended it saying how much he will miss me etc. etc. and he will contact me on his return. Which bit of its over didn’t he get (or accept)? Can’t imagine he will accept being dumped as too arrogant. I told him again not to contact me please on his return but I suspect he will still try. So……2 weeks where he can’t contact me and 2 weeks to prepare for coping with his next plan of action. Anyone any thoughs on what he will do next? I suspect he will persuade me to go out and talk, try and charm the pants off me, hook me in again and then go cool for a few days? Back to where we started.Was going to delete his number but then thought that better to know he is calling so can reject call and not get cuaght unawares but am also worried that in a weak moment I text him. Had a great date tonight and need to focus on the nice, effort free, drama free, normal guys I am dating. Ta xxx
Jen April 4th, 2008, 9:46 am
Signs he may live with some one or be married: When he does call you–it is strangely never from his home–he may call you from his car–or from work/school–but never at home. And if you call him during a time he is at home–he doesn’t pick up and you only get a text page back–or the next day he’ll say his phone was off. If this happens once or twice its totally normal and shouldnt be suspect–but when this is the status quo and happens with almost every phone conversation–you may have a problem.
Sheila April 8th, 2008, 3:21 pm
I was just reading these posts and this one made me chuckle…..
He emails me this message: ” I hope you didnt forget where it sais in my online profile that Im looking for someone secure and independent”.
I cannot believe that a guy wrote that.. What a loser/asshole..
What if the guy you are seeing has about 5 of those traits listed above.. Pathetic really.. I’m laughing at myself for being in this pathetic situation…
One of the best things I read on these guys was..
“they can’t commit to you, but they can’t commit to being without you either”.. SO TRUE..
I have brought in outside help for my situation.. I changed phone service and blocked his number, texts and I cannot call out to him. I can’t ignore the calls/texts, I have tried.. Let’s see what happens when the “fall back girl” goes RADIO SILENT for the first time since all this shit went down 2 months ago…
I’ll keep you posted..
debbie April 10th, 2008, 10:42 am
After reading the other posts I do believe that i to am involved with EUM. The one thing I really identifiy with is the concept of the Fallback Girl. the one girl that no matter whoever else he may be dealing with he will always come back to. Not so much because she is the only one that will put up with his crap but because maybe he really feels a genuine connection with this one person just doesn’t know how to express it. I say this because the other women are putting up with his crap also why else would he have so many and for lack of another word have someone like me as a “main squeeze”?
FinallyOverIt April 10th, 2008, 9:52 pm
Debbie, one of the things we women do when we love an EUM is we—-JUSTIFY! We justify the relationship in any way we can so that we can continue to ride the emotional rollercoaster. In my opinion, being the Fallback Girl is NOT a good thing! Being the Fallback Girl means that you have so little self worth and self-esteem that you are willing to take “crumbs” from these men, and think that crumbs are all you deserve. I do not believe that most men who have a Fallback Girl see them as someone they have a strong connection with but just don’t know how to express it. I think they see Fallback Girls as door mats, pushovers, easily manipulated and fooled, and someone they know that no matter how they treat them, they will always be around like a pair of old soft fuzzy slippers. If there is a true, genuine “connection” between two people, it is based on honesty, caring, support and true concern for that other person’s well-being. I agree with what has been said before on this blog–if a man wants to be with a woman, HE WILL BE WITH HER, and won’t play all of the EUM games as a means of keeping his distance. Harsh, but I believe it to be true!
NML April 10th, 2008, 9:59 pm
Amen, Finally Over It! I saw Debbie’s comment come through earlier and I was shocked! Being a Fallback Girl is not about him being misunderstood and being the secret number one. You are defaulted to as an ego massage. You’re a back up plan. Why do you think so many guys have Fallback Girls when they are already with somebody and then when they break up with their girlfriend/wife, they often don’t get with the FB, they get with someone else. They have no respect. If they did, you wouldn’t be a FB in the first place! Being a FB is not something to wear with pride - it is an indicator of something being seriously wrong. Many a women makes the mistake of believing that she’s irresistable hence his bouncing back and forth - it’s not that he can’t resist - it’s just there, easy, and he doesn’t have enough regard for it. Each time he comes back, it’s because he thinks that you finally know the score and don’t expect too much. The moment you expect, the moment he disappears.
debbie April 11th, 2008, 12:01 am
See the thing with me is I know what time it is with him. I know he “sees” other people. He has told me himself that he does this. I don’t expect too much from him either. Why should I. I’m going to get much more than what I get already so I play the game right along with him. I to see other people. The difference is he knows nothing about what I do when he isn’t with me. you should never let one hand know what the other one is doing and he never will.
Katharine April 11th, 2008, 9:32 am
This website is so good. I briefly dated an EUM about 6 months ago. It took me a further 3 months to suss him out and realise that he had serious emotional issues as well as being a mummy’s boy.
However, he still plays games with me. I totally agree with the ‘he can’t commit to you but he can’t commit to letting you go.’ This guy couldn’t commit to me, but he won’t actually say the words as he likes to have me where he wants me if he ever wants anything (usually a quick snog if we’re ever alone!) He continuously blows hot and cold to make sure this is maintained.
Unfortunately, I still have to see him twice a week through an activity we both do. He is incredibly hard to let go of, but I’m slowly getting there…
FinallyOverIt April 11th, 2008, 6:01 pm
It’s all about what you want out of a relationship, I guess. If you want to play games, and skirt around the issue of emotional commitment, that’s what you will get, but just because you are both okay with the “scraps” you throw each other, doesn’t mean it’s a healthy, fulfilled relationship. I just think it’s a big waste of time–when you could be channeling your energy into a relationship that meets your needs and makes you happy.
Sheila April 11th, 2008, 6:57 pm
NML.. boy do you put things in perspective… but everything you say is true.. I had a friend say that to me the other day.. “you told him not to contact you.. if he respected you, he wouldn’t, but he doesn’t, so he does”….
I am blocking his number from my cell.. no calls in or out, no texts.. Ive been going crazy today waiting to hear from him, and he doesn’t give a sht.. He blew me hot for 3 days.. and now he’s scaling back to make sure I stay where he wants me… This is a guy I was in love with?
Actually NO.. the guy I was in love with doesn’t exist.. I am finally starting to see that.. but it still sucks..
and Finally over it.. kudos to you.. YOU ARE DEFINITELY FINALLY OVER IT..
you go!!!!!
Charlie April 12th, 2008, 6:42 pm
Well I did it girls thanks to your advice and the site! No contact for month now and it has just got easier and easier-stress levels down as well. Dating someone lovely and normal now, no drama and can relax and be myself. Have you noticed how the EUMs have you feeling on edge all the time? Will he phone/won’t he, watch what I say, do, wear etc etc. Boy it is soooo great to lose the hassle and feel good about self again. So glad I got out early as it really impacted my self-esteem in such a short time (2 months)and I realise it that if I had continued the impact would have made it really hard for me to walk away. Will always watch for the signs now and never get myself in that position again. So thanks! x
FinallyOverIt April 14th, 2008, 4:32 pm
Thanks for the “kudos” Sheila, but I, too, still have occasional bouts of sadness and grief over “what could have been” if my EUM wasn’t an EUM. I still have to work with him every day, and see him every day, etc. etc. It’s still hard, but I am definitely moving on. I feel for you, and pray that courage will empower you to do what you know you need to do! Take care.
Meg April 17th, 2008, 10:58 am
An excellent list - incredibly accurate and useful. Wish I’d had it many years ago.
Anyone can fall prey to wishful thinking, addictive relationships, manipulative people, or unhealthy, repetitive patterns.
I think that even if your personal situation leaves you feeling incredibly vulnerable, afraid, unhappy, and/or alone, it’s STILL better to walk than to be with someone who cannot “be there” or truly share with you.
Kindness, love, courage, and positive energy to all of you!
Kim April 17th, 2008, 6:58 pm
Danielle & Scales! I hope you are still reading! I couldn’t believe the similarities in our stories! Our assclowns are clones! I am 43 freakin’ years old. I had an old college sweetheart look me up who was recently seperated. Fed me lines of sh*t for 12 weeks until I finally gave in! Said he wanted to just tell me stop when he heard I was getting married! That he used to cry over me! (yeah right - I didnt know a stone could cry!)
Danille - my guy used the same lines “It’s going to take me some time” & ‘Be patient - I’ll be worth the wait”. I am a single mom as well. It is the hardest job in the world & these guys taking advantage of us just sucks. As much as we are supposed to take the blame for our “low self-esteem” it just angers the h*ll out of me that these guys at their age go to such lengths & tell you lies to “reel” you in & suit their oen agendas. I guess the bottom line is we can’t change who they are. We can ony change ourselves. Hard lesson learned.
Scales - My guys was only weeks out of a seperation when he looked me up. I told him I did not want to be a “feel good” that I didn’t think he was ready & I held him off for 3 months. He told me everything I wanted to hear that he was “over it” until eventually gave in. He also told me he loved me early on & upon our very 1st meeting. (long distance relationship). I wasnt ready to hear it & was shocked he said it. Told me also that I would always be & feel very loved by him. Are all of these EUM’s reading from a frakin’ script? This guy was an old love of mine not some stranger or guy from match.com/ I trusted him & never thought he would do something like this especially because of our history. Just goes to show you it IS all about them. Scales - I HAVE to know this & if anybody else wants to comment please do - my guy told me very early on too “You seem so confident, strong & secure with urself & I love that”! Why is that a common comment for these guys? NML maybe you can give us some insight on that? So they need thier egos massaged & WE are the insecure ones? Hmm
Kim April 17th, 2008, 7:08 pm
Scales - one more thing. I made comments to my guy too about the Dr. saying I might be pregnant (which was a joke because I am in early menopause). I told him once I want to grow old with him. I beat myself up for months after it ended because of those comments thinking I scared him off. Although I will never lay my heart out there like that again so easily we can’t blame ourselves. These guys lie, reel us in with outlandish comments they don’t mean & make “empty” promises then go hide like little boys when we reciprocate. I don’t know about you but my guy set the tone early on with his sh*t lines. If these guys would be honest & up front about their fears or intentions I don’t know about you but I would have been a lot more guarded or taken things slower. They misled us. That isn’t our fault. We know the signs now. If it seems unrealistic & too good to be true it’s because it usually is.
FinallyOverIt April 17th, 2008, 7:08 pm
NML pretty much sums it up in her book “Mr. Unavailable and the Fall Back Girl” (I feel like I’m always talking about this book, but trust me, it has some really good insights and has helped me a lot). There is a chapter called “Meet Mr. Unavailable” and it describes the characteristics of most of the EUMs that are floating around on this planet. I have learned to not spend too much time analyzing the “habits” of the EUM–it is very complex and can vary depending upon their background, childhood, addictions, as well as a lot of other social and psychological contributors that have made them what they are today. It’s just not worth it, ladies. They are who they are, and trying to rationalize their behavior is a dead-end road to total frustration and scratching your head until you have no hair left! Don’t waste your time. Just concentrate on YOU, and making whatever changes you need to in your life so that you can be happy and love yourself.
Kim April 17th, 2008, 7:17 pm
LeaGirl - I wanted to ask you a question. If I am correct you said you were married to an EUM for 14 years right? My EUM was married for 16 years. His wife had an affair shortly before he looked me up which he neglected to tell me until months into the relationship. I tried to convince myself I made this relationship fail but but thanks to NML’s book & this blog I know I wasn’t all to blame. Based on some of the comments my EUM said during the course of our year long relationship I am guessing he was an EUM in his marriage as well & that may be why his wife strayed. He suffered trauma when his father passed but I am thinking he withdrew then as well due to his inability to access his emotions to begin with. Did you find this true with your husband? Has he always been an EUM? If you dont mind my asking, what were his family relationships like?
Kim April 17th, 2008, 7:38 pm
FinallyOverIt- I agree with your comments. I told my guy over & over again he was not emotionally ready for a relationship with me. I didn’t head my own freakin’ words!He was relentless trying to convince me otherwise & because of our history of dating back in college & still having feelings for one another I eventually gave in. When I pulled back he went into “panic mode” saying I love you & you have my heart always have. It is very painful at my age to learn another hard lesson. I never realized he was an EUM. I truly believe what you say that they are incapable of giving love. I did put too much faith & trust in this guy too soon. I so wish I would have known about the NCR before he dumped me. I could have left with my diginity. I guess he did me a favor. Like NML said - we are “back up plans”. Sad but true. Time for me to stop playing victim & move on! I so appreciate all of you sharing your stories on this site! Us women need stick together & continue supporting one another!
Kim April 17th, 2008, 7:45 pm
Finally OverIt - thx for the b*tch slap! I needed it! LOL
april April 20th, 2008, 2:22 am
wow.. i think this article just described me. :/
Anne April 20th, 2008, 3:17 am
Hello ladies
This is the first time I have been on this site and I have to say, it is refreshing to read all of these stories and to know that whenever you think you are in something alone, you realise you are not.
Well I was also involved with an EUM and the thing is we have been friends for over 30 years. I have been there with him through his first and second divorce. I went through one divorce myself and we remained friends through all this.
Bout a year and a half ago we were hanging out as we usually did and talking about our lives as usual and he causually said to me “you know something, we have both been through so much hurt, trials and tribulations and we have remained friends through it all” “Don’t you think that we should date each other because I think we know each other so well, we wouldn’t go through all the drama that we went through with our marriages”
To be honest, that was the first time I have even thought about being anything with him other than friends and while what he said had me thinking a bit, I had to admit it was not a bad suggestion.
Anyway to cut a long story short, we started dating and it was easy as he was used to being at my home and interacting with my two girls and I used to visit his home and interact with his daughter as well. In fact my last daughter and his daughter are the same ages (13).
Well, after about 6 months of total bliss, my lifetime friend turned lover started to exhibit signs of the EUM. It started with him not showing up or contacting me for days, then he turns up with no explanation, I would have to ask him what happened and then I would get some flimsy excuse that he was working hard, he got cases that were urgent (he is a lawyer)
Next, we would arrange to go out on a date and he would call and cancel saying he had to see a client urgently, then when we do meet it was always when he could squeeze out some time from his busy schedule.
Well I was really getting pissed off at his behaviour so one day I just put it to him that I think what is going on is that he is emotionally unavailable and I suspect he was this way in both of his marriages that is why they ended with both women cheating on him.
Well, I got the biggest shock of my life when the man told me in no uncertain terms that I should have known that he didn’t want a relationship because of what he went through with his two marriages. Well, I am the sort of person who likes to take things at the centre, so I asked him outright if it was just about the sex with him and then he told me, well he thought I was o.k, with that and he thought I understood that it could never be anything serious between us bcause of all that we went through.
I have to say that I can’t mention here the choice words I give him with very colorful adjectives and told him to stay the hell away from me and my family, don’t call, don’t come around, don’t IM or email me, just take a hike and that was so much for 30+ years of friendship
That was 6 months ago. Well, the past 2 weeks ago Mr. surfaced again and apologised for his behaviour saying he is now fully over his two ex’s and is now ready to commit because he realise that I am the person he was in love with all along and he is begging for another chance.
You know what guys, I am happy to report, I listened to him and when he was finished, I told him just as calmly that I am still single and just loving the feeling, there is no stress in my life. I have a well paying job, my girls and I have a fantastic relationship and I am so happy, I don’t need the likes of him in my life because as sure as we breathe, if I get involved with him and eventually marry him, he will have divorce No. 3, so I told him it was sweet that he has finally gotten over his two wives but he needs to get some counseling.
I told him I don’t go backwards, I only go forwards and while I will always love him as a friend, he sucks as a partner and I told him I deserve a whole lot more than he can ever give me and I told him I am done making choices for myself. God will be the one deciding who is to be a partner in my life and I am really not in any hurry to have one anyway and I wished him all the best for his life but I wasn’t interested in sharing his life as anything else other than a friend.
So that is my story. I can only say to all these women here who are still struggling with these EUM to LOVE, LOVE, LOVE YOU FIRST.
God bless.
Anne
Kim April 21st, 2008, 3:33 pm
Great story Anne! Wish I would have had the b*lls to do it your way! I could have left with my dignity! The loser dumped me before I knew what an EUM was!
FinallyOverIt April 21st, 2008, 4:25 pm
Anne, your story has given me hope! And I am totally amazed at your courage to stand up for yourself and what you want from a relationship–albeit one that was such a big part of your life for so many years. I, too, am struggling to maintain a friendship with my EUM, but so far even the “friendship” is leaving me feeling empty and alone, so that, too, may end….
Thank you for sharing your story!
poetic justice May 22nd, 2008, 11:16 am
Okay ladies so here is the deal!!! As we have established the majority of men out there are EUM!!! So what do we do? Either recognise the signs and run screaming for the hills and find a man who is willing to open up to us OR do what I did with my EUM - heres my story. After splitting up with my husband after 12 years I was extremely scared of the whole dating scene, I started flirting with a guy at work, one thing led to another and after 3 months of seeing each other (in secret) I brought up our position (he did an ostrich maneouvre) Baffled and confused I wondered what the hell I was doing wrong??? So I pushed and pushed and pushed …… it went cold. I took the hint and dropped all contact, 3 days later phone beeps “I really miss you”. I was no longer confused, if this man wants to play games ……game on……I’m not ready for another serious relationship yet so what did I do…….I became an emotionally unavailable woman….I phoned him, told him that yes I liked him, however my life is too important to me to put on hold for him, so if he wants to see me thats fine but he will have to fit it with my life and not the other way round, I made clear I had no interest in a long term relationship with him (lie) and that it really didn’t matter to me if he didn’t want to see me on a particular day (lie), he asked me what I was doing that night and if he could come round and chat, I told him I was going out with friends (lie) I also ignore his texts now and again replying 1-3 hours later and now the table has completely turned!!!! Okay so there will be a lot of you shaking your head and tutting at me now but hey, least I’m in control. The way I see it, it will either develop into something that I want or in the interim I have some form of company until I find someone better…..it may be wrong but it worked for me. Good luck to you all, I am very new at all this and may fall flat on my face with theory but hey you live and learn. xxxxx
FinallyOverIt May 22nd, 2008, 6:16 pm
poetic justice–my only advice would be to be careful. You may think you have the control, and are fine with mutually playing games with this man, but the more you invest emotionally (whether you think you are or not), the more chance for potential heartbreak down the road. As far as this relationship developing into something you want, it’s important to pay attention to the red flags of his possible emotional unavailability, and be able to listen to you gut as to whether he is just playing games, or if he is a full blown EUM, which basically means he will probably never be able to contribute emotionally to the relationship. It’s also about being totally true to yourself. If you are looking for a healthy, trusting and loving relationship with someone, I would do some heavy soul searching about whether to pursue this man. Also, being involved with someone at work (and especially an EUM) is very risky, and you should be prepared for possible fallout down the road if things don’t work out with him. You should check the post about how to handle EUMs at work. Anyway, just some food for thought! Take care.
Bev May 31st, 2008, 5:20 pm
I have to agree with finallyoverit. I played a similar game with a guy who was reliable and all over me to start with then went cool, I played it cool too, but this just served to con me into false security that I had control, when actually he knew the tactics and he had control in letting me have control - if that makes sense. Then I found myself in relationship with an abusive predator, who was very clever. He was also exploiting his position at work in a place where lots of women work, and when I saw his phone he had more than one on the go, but i bet none of them knew why he was blowing hot and cold. he was working all the strings like a master puppetter. I eventually came away from him, but it has taken me ages to get over the abuse, and deceit. Be Careful!! You may find you are trying to get someone who is unavailable for more sinister reasons.
Helena June 1st, 2008, 9:28 pm
Six months ago, my 4 months relationship ended; the traits of intense pursuing in the beginning, an amazing first month with him being oh SO too good to be true (needless to say, I fell headlong!), then the subtle change into him not calling when said he would, denying my calls, cancelling dates, small lies, breaking up with me twice only to take me back with immense strength only a couple of days later (both times), taking drugs and being heavy on the drinking, on alcohol having fierce arguments with me: “It’s about ME! I own this town!” (Jeeze…) It all ended on a weekend trip when under the influence of alcohol he raged at me, saying he would “p*ss on me and make my life a f*cking hell” etc. He cried the day after, begging for forgiveness, but I stood up for myself, saying it was not OK and that I wanted to chill a couple of days and after that - HE split. What happened here?? Borderliner? He ended it via SMS, extremely cowardly. I did not want to break up with him, love him to pieces still…
Is he an EUM or “only” an immature jerk with addiction problems, narcisstic tendencies and way too much money on his hands? He suffers from bad self esteem (narcissistic father creating the family wealth), sometimes has a rather nasty way towards his mother, never really had a long relationship (not longer than a year), sometimes attacks his friends physically, jumps from one relationship to the next (always has a girl!). Now he’s with an older woman with kids - what’s up with that?! I am extremely jealous on the new one and am afraid she might handle him better than I did?
I SO regret saying I wanted to “chill”; if I hadn’t maybe we would still have been together today?? Or was it doomed from the starters? And will he EVER commit? And could I have done ANYTHING to prevent the breakup…?!
NML June 2nd, 2008, 12:45 pm
Hi Helena
I have responded to your email. But please stop blaming yourself for his behavior or thinking that one thing you have done could change the outcome - not saying what you did would just prolong the agony for a little while longer.
NML x
leslie June 11th, 2008, 5:22 am
one to add to the list: when he tell you he loves you only through your shared pet. “(insert dog’s name here) loves his mommy!” . I acutally got a card from yet another past EUM saying “I rove you” signed- the dog’s name
NML June 19th, 2008, 11:29 am
Thanks for making me giggle! I will include this comment in the forthcoming book because it so brilliantly highlights the ridiculousness that is Mr Unavailable!
astelle June 19th, 2008, 2:58 pm
Leslie,
well, he is a dog!
fed up June 25th, 2008, 12:07 pm
Hi ladies.
So happy to have come across this site. I am a 38 year old woman from the uk.
Been a single mum now after my divorce 9 years ago well after he ran off with someone else! brought my 2 boys up on my own and i have done a good job. always been independent. good job. own house and car.
a year ago i thought i would try online dating as my friends are married or cohabiting and i was very lonely, I met someome last year and yes! he turned out to be an eum and messed me about like you wouldn’t believe. it took me months to get over as he made me quiet ill.
decided to try again a few months ago and promised myself i wouldn’t make the same mistake. chatted to a guy for a few weeks. then on the phone for a while and agreed to meet up. this man is 40 bye the way. he was very shy but we got on great. had a lovely time and started to see each other regularly.
he was kind, considerate and was nice to everyone so knew it wasn’t an act.
introduced me to all his family and friends. same with mine. said it was scary as it seemed like we had known each other all our lives. thought this was too good to be true. went on weekends away and almost did everything together.then yes it happened. he started to pull away.called less.went out with his mates which i said was fine he didn’t have to be with me every night. he was so distant i sent him a text and asked him what was wrong. he text back with ” sorry, i shouldn’t have got involved. head all over the place and hope you meet someone who can love you back. WHAT the hell is all that about. of course i got upset and sent him a few nasty messages ie; how can you do this to me. how do i tell my kids, i want my things back bla bla bla. which i apologised for the day after.
got a call the next morning saying my things were outside my house. what a coward. this guy does have problems as the mother of his 3 children took them to live in a different country last year and he misses them. i even offered to go with him to see them. after a 10 year relationship with the mother of his kids he went straight into another one for 7 years which ended a few months before he met me. guess i was the reboumd girl and now he has a taste of freedom this is what he wants. needless to say he is back on the dating site and even blocked me. cheeky ******. sent him a text a couple of weeks ago to say he was childish and don’t hold grudges. told him i wouldn’t be using this site again and wished him all the best in his search. got no reply. in one of his texts when he ended it he said he may have made the worst decision of his life but his heart wasn’t in it.
i just hope that when he gets it broken he will remember that comment. giong to take time out for me now and glad to know i’m not alone. thankyou to you all xx
Classy Lady June 26th, 2008, 4:43 am
Hello Ladies! Thanks for sharing your stories. After reading your comments, I had NO OTHER CHOICE but to do what would spare my emotional and spiritual health. I met a handsome man at a conference last week. He pursued me. We even talked for 2 hours after the conference and never at any time did he try to get me into bed. When I called him on a Friday when I retured home (I live in the South; He lives on the East coast), he said that he would call back. Needless to say, like the typical EUM, he never did call. I FINALLY received a text message from him on Tuesday (or 72 hours later). He said that was thinking of me and that he “found it cruel that he would meet a beautiful woman who was out of reach.” Needless to say, I was very flattered but RED FLAGS immediately flew up the minute that I ONLY received text messages from him. Just today, I received 50 messages from this guy. I wonder if he even has a job! I mean, what job would allow an individual to text all day?!?!?!? I texted him that I would love to hear his voice, and he said that he would call me “momentarily.” Well, that was 8 hours ago and I still haven’t heard from him! I am convinced that this man is living with/sleeping with a woman. However, as fine as he is, I wouldn’t want to be this woman for anything in the world. She is probably convinced that he’s a good guy because he comes home every night, but she doesn’t even know that he’s trying to make plans to fly from Philadelphia to Louisiana to see me. Also, if I were in a relationship with this EUM, he would be pursuing other women behind my back too! This man puts the L in Loser. He has 4 children by 2 different women and has never married any of the mothers. Tells me A LOT about his character, or rather lack thereof. I DESERVE better than this and am very happy that I have the strength to avoid EUM! Ladies, you are an inspiration!
De June 27th, 2008, 11:07 am
I have never done this before but I have been surfing the web for nearly two years trying to find answers, trying to keep my sanity, trying to find hope. It has been an extraordinary experience and I’m sure after reading the mails above I am not alone. everyday I have read for hours, bought countless books trying to quieten the raging frustration, pain, reacurring disappointment, highs and lows love and hate inside me.
I don’t know that I need to tell the whole story because I have lived through it and hope it is now the end of a terrible saga.
I went home to visit my family (do it every couple of years) my Dad was dying, I remember leaning down to his frail body to give him a hug and he was as light as a feather with the illness that had been ravaging his body for 30 years. I new it was my last hug and I left the country trying to hold back the tears. I went back to my work and there before me was a beautiful sight, one of energy and laughter a special mix with confidence and affection shining through. of course I was hooked, come on you know the story
I think the past year a half has been me clinging onto my father, not wanting to let him go, not wanting to believe he was gone forever…. in the guise of this man who played me like the fool. But, I must take my part in the responsibility. I saw the warning signs, I heard the voice when it said..oh oh, not this again. But I sooo wanted it not to be true, I wanted God and life and love to show me that this was going to be different that I could open my heart and I wouldn’t have to loose my father and that a sensitive love would envelope me and hold me to go through my grief process easily. I opened my heart in trust…. the minute I did he shot across the room like a bullet screaming in fear…”I don’t want your love, I don’t want your affection”. I imploded. The roller coaster had begun.
My heart and mind has been consumed every day with how to figure this out.
I have learnt how not to pursue, I have learnt about destructive narcissists, I have learnt about sex addiction. Every signal he gave me that he was unavailable I studied to try to figure out the full impact of the problem, his problem, my problem.
I was afraid for him, for me, I discovered words like ‘cheap illicit sex’, he sent me photos of nasty porn, then said he was joking, he wasn’t a sex addict. I distanced and distanced but we were working on a project. I saw him with other women, a primitive sexual dance that made me vomit and curl up in a ball with despair. I got free, I got strong, then he would need some more information. Why couldn’t we leave each other alone. Every day for nearly two years. Lots of detail that will torment me for a long time, In two years each experience of him has left visual and emotional wounds. The visual, sometimes I made up myself sometimes he put them in front of me serving them up like a dinner he had lavishly prepared.
Welll now it’s over, thank you God for the email he forgot to delete. You are truly looking after me.
This last Sunday I received an email from him…at the end of the email there were some other emails from a collegue we have been working with. In one thread it said ‘I hope you are working things out with your girlfriend’.
A tail spin. Girlfriend?, no!, he’s having multiple partners, he’s into playgirls, swinging parties, S and M. That’s why we can’t be together cause he’s not ready for anything, he’s still playing. Fine, I have learnt to live with that…. and remove myself from it…but what’s this!I I thought I had moved on, not giving any of my personal information not asking for his. Just working on the work (his work by the way!!!) why was I furious why did I feel cheated. Because I had been deceived thats why.
I decided to call him, then thought no..he is not going to have the satisfaction or the sadist pleasure of my pain. I breathed deeply then called with grace in my heart. We talkind about work. I told him that I was glad to hear he had a girlfriend that he had chosen love over cheap sex and multiple partners. That I had been afraid for him, because of aids and sexually transmitted diseases. He was very happy to then tell me how they had fallen in love and been together now for almost a year!!! And that sometimes cheap sex was better than a destructive relationship. for the past year, he had given me plenty of hints at his illicit sexual wanderings, about his erotic tales he was writing. Then when I went quiet he would say… is there something wrong and sound concerned with it!. I learnt not to get upset. No, everythings fine, then I would go and cry for three days and drag myself together again…and yet here it was..he was in a relationship!!
Why didn’t you tell me I asked…’because I didn’t want to hurt you’ was his answer
But he didn’t ever mind hurting me…I don’t get this part…this is where I need some help??? he didn’t want to hurt me, he was hurting me everyday for two years and he didn’t want to hurt me?. I think he just loved my love and attention and didn’t want it to go away. Again. Thank you God for the email you have set me free.
I have grieved for a few days now. I’m glad it’s over, I’m glad I don’t have to worry about him anymore or think of nasty situations he might be in.
Then I realized…whatever…I clung to him because I didn’t want to let go of my Dad and the past almost two years I clung onto someone to help support me through my crisis… with the grief and trauma of this non relationship I guess it has allowed me to bit by bit bury my father. I hope that the past two years for this terribly terribly unhappy man, my love and support and nurturing and goodness has helped turn him into a better more loving man for his new girlfriend.
Sadly i don’t think so.
I want to be free now, to be empty, so God can bring me the love I truly deserve. I will not go and find it because I am trusting God is ready and I am ready for a ‘deep satisfying love’ (another term I have learnt). I now have the vocabulary of how not to give myself away so freely. Whoever comes into my life now will have to be pretty damned versed in deep satisfying love to walk by my side. And like Diana, I will throw down the apples.
I wish God will give you all the same.
Thank you for giving me a space and an invitation to let it all out.
xxxx from the heart
De
Cynnie June 27th, 2008, 2:20 pm
I started dating this guy one year ago. In the begining we spoke regularly, he texted often and soon after he admitted that he was smitten by me. One time we were in a karoke bar and he sand and dedicated a song to me. Wow I thought. This is great. He introduced me to his family and said how much his mum liked me and hoped that I would one day be her daughter-in-law
Then his behaviour changed. He started standing me up, and if he did show, he was at least 2 hours late. He stopped calling as often, maybe every 3 days. He was busy. He would still text, but soon the frequency of these dried up and he started taking very long to respond to texts, if he ever did. He always had an excuse. His phone battery died. His address book got deleted. He had to work. His mother took ill. His car broke down. He was ill. He was was trapped on the top of the Ferris wheel and couldn’t get down. You get the point.
I decided that I’d had enough and told him so. Quick as a flash he was “the guy I first met.” That lasted about one week before he was back to his ways. Soon after that he “forgot” my birthday. This back and forth of “making” up and breaking up became common.
I stumbled across this site when I was trying to understand why he was behaving the way he did and more importantly, understand why I was tolerating it and not kicking him to the curb. When I read the post about EUM I was gobsmacked. As I went through the signs I realised that (sadly) he had the majority of them!
But still I persisted wit h the “relationship”. I would be cool. I would try harder. I would feign disinterest. All that happened is …. NOTHING
By month # 8 of his rubbish, I’d had enough. I tried the NCR but slipped, so I’m doing the Get Out Plan and it’s been working. He knows that something is up but can’t quite figure it out.
What hurts is the times that we would “talk” I would tell him how I felt and why his actions hurt me. I would invite him to explain his actions. Nothing. I’ve had enough. I’m upset that he doesn’t seem to care that I’m hurt or try to understand why. Instead, he gets angry or dismissive, telling me that I’m always looking to quarrel about something.
I’m angry at myself for allowing him to set the pace of this “relationship.” For putting up with his nonsense. Would you beleive that he was travelling abroad for 3 weeks and make no effort to spend time with me before he left? I was also disappointed that he didn’t call when he was overseas until my inner, sensible voice pointed out that if he doesn’t call you when he’s in your country, will he call when he’s in another? Anyway, I’ve blocked him from seeing me online, I don’t respond to his texts/emails and I take his calls when I want. I hope to get him out of my system once and for all.
My Aha! moment was on this site when a reader pointed out that she was tired shoving her love down her boyfriend’s throat.
Then i realised that I was doingthe same thing. I feel as if I’m twisting his arm to love me. Spend time with me. Take me out. And upon reflection, I do not want a relationship based on duress.
Kasbah August 11th, 2008, 11:30 am
My heart sank when I stumbled on this site reading it’s content and commentary from variious ladies, as I saw “ME” in almost all of them. I came here searching for answers to a relationship that has drained the life out of me.
Confused by a man’s behaviour (whom I will admit I adore) and even more so by my own stupidity. This website enabled me to step back and have a rethink of my situation and go on a 2 week vacation, with a clear perspective on what I was dealing with, whilst at the same time, envoking the NCR.
It gave me answers that have, thus far, been ambiguous, non committal or questionable at best, to the lack of traction, secrecy, lack of reciprocity, vagueness and lack of intention surrounding my now dubious long term “relationship”….a word that I will throw around as loosely as my EUM.
I mandated my friends to visit the site (more so to rationalise the incessant whing(e)ing they have had to endure from me for months) , which resulted in them too seeing themselves and men they have encountered on here. So we shall be buying the ebook.
For “Fed up” : My view is good men are not to be found/met online, good men are out and about enjoying life and you will encounter them in this space. From the experience of myself and my friends, invariably I find men on line are your typical EUM candidates. I say this as the internet provides them a safety net which they can hide behind and platform from which they can “project” what they “want ” you to see and indeed what they would like to believe about themselves, as it is by no accident that EU males ,(that I and my friends have encountered, are also chronically delusional about themselves.
My view is, the reality of what you are more than likely, dealing with online is an emotionally (and more than likely physically) lazy little man, who enjoy the distance/anonimity that the web provides, to enable them to perpetuate little fantasy versions of themselves and lure in unsuspecting vulnerable women with declarations of undying love, a predisposition to “you are the one-itus” at day 2, coupled with little, if any , intention of seeing things through and delivering on their oh so sweet words.
Equally, at the risk of sounding totally jaded, my friends and I set up “a man tester”on a site, a fake profile which we would send in as ammo, on being persued (you know the “Ooooooh lovely fluffy bunny stage”) or when behaviour turned questionable during a relationship, who we would send in as a test…each of us accessing it and sending messages when the “target” knew his S.O. was unavailable, the findings were horrific…flirting, suggestion, the exact same MO in attempts to woo, no mention of being in a relationship and rather crass attempts at cyber sex and meet up plans. Our eyes were so opened, so much so, we are to document our observations and findings to warn all women on the risks and types of man you can encounter on line. Some may say what we did was wrong, but it served a purpose in seperating the wheat from the chaff, and is no more deceitful than the bollocks you are fed from these scumbuckets, that said there ARE some decent guys out there girls, but sadly, they are not normally sat on their fat arse in front of a computer screen asking to “SEE SOME SKIN”….;-)
Mr Froggynocock and HFM Hater August 11th, 2008, 2:26 pm
Kasbah, I am with you on this sister, FO SHO! The sheer volume of C-U-Next-Tuesday ish men online has been staggering to me as well. Here’s my story….
After being a serial monogamist for 18 years, (one marriage, two LTR’s lasting: 9 years, 6 years and 3 years respectively) I took a much needed hiatus from all things men. The fact that my last relationship was with an eventually diagnosed manic depressive psychopath (what a catch!) may have had something to do with the fact that I remained entirely man free for the next six years. During that time, I grew nice and fat and content.
Then, 18 months ago, that all changed. Purely by chance, I met “the one” online. Within a very short space of time, he was suggesting that we might marry and confessing that he believed he was “falling in love” with me. I overlooked a number of “red flags” including:
* he admitted he had slept with upwards of 100 women (he was very attractive) and had nothing nice to say about any of them
* he admitted he and his brother had shared a prostitute - NICE!
* he chopped and changed his mind every five minutes with regard what he was going to do with his life
* he only ever talked about himself and his problems
I could go on, but you get the gist. Anyway, he moved to France, which devastated me. He left all his stuff at my house and then dropped contact. I eventually had to find out where his brother lived and get rid of his stuff there.
I then went hell for leather online dating with a vengeance in a vain attempt to get over him. To cut a very long story short, I then proceeded to meet a succession of candidates for “Shit of the Year” or the alternative award of “Desperado of the Decade”. I even met one man who was totally upfront about there being zilch likelihood that he would ever settle down - he saw the internet as the equivalent of a sweet shop - that there was always another fresh lolly to suck, why settle for one which could lose it’s flavour?
Kasbah is right, I believe. I think the chances of meeting a normal, emotionally available, non-game playing man on the internet are akin to winning the lottery - sure, we know it CAN happen, but how many people do you actually KNOW of, PERSONALLY - who have found true love online?
Yeah, me neither….
Cynnie September 10th, 2008, 1:28 pm
EUM’s are always “busy”. Doing what, no ones knows.
They come across as generally nice men who may be a bit shy or unable to express themselves properly, hence the reluctance to have meaningful conversations. Don’t be fooled.
Don’t think that you are being patient and that he’ll eventually come out of his shell. NML’s list is spot on! And as she says, if you find one, you’ll find much more.
Don’t waste your time. Bail out now and get on with your life with someone who loves you and is truly available.
Peter October 15th, 2008, 10:08 pm
Wow, there’s a site all about me, I never realised I was so popular!
I’ve always had issues with relationships, mostly due to me being selfish. I don’t feel it myself but when I look at things from the outside it’s so true. My best friend (also an ex-girlfriend) said to me the one way of keeping me interested is to pretend you don’t care! I tried to argue but it’s so true!
My most recent relationship I ended recently because I didn’t think things we’re working out. She was fantastic, pretty, caring and always had time for me but it wasn’t enough. When I look to the future I see ski holidays in the Alps, fast cars and fast women. I can’t imagine spending my life with one person, no matter how good they are!
I get addicted to almost everything I try, this year alone I’ve take up Wakeboarding and Snowboarding, last year it was rock climbing. All my spare time and money I use doing things I want, if I have a spare day with bad weather or I run out of money I’ll visit the girlfriend. It doesn’t help that we live in different countries but if we we’re both in the UK it probably wouldn’t of lasted as long!
I can’t explain why I’m like this, just wanted to put our side across. I’ve never intentionally hurt anyone and I’ve always been honest. When I get into a relationship all I want to do is settle down and do all the good things that come with it, after a few months I just want to do my own thing.
The only long term (over 12 months) relationship I’ve had lasted 5 years, we have two lovely children and did reasonably well considering I was such a rubbish boyfriend and father.
Lastly I agree with your list almost entirely. A few points though, the reason we never call when we’re supposed to it’s not because we’ve forgotten about you, it’s because we can! You can control many things but you can’t make me call at 9pm so I’ll wait until 9.30 and you’ll still be there, it’s just a control thing. We disappear for days on end because we want to be single, if only for a short while. It may not mean going out looking for girls, just being with our friends and not having anyone to answer to.
And just to sign off, I am a nice guy, I have had some lovely girlfriends, have a good stable job and enjoy my life. I hold on to the hope that one day I’ll meet a girl who will always keep me interested, however that may be.
Pete
Astelle October 15th, 2008, 10:19 pm
Woe, great post, Peter. Let me ask you something, how do you feel when you don’t make time for the girl and she keeps calling and calling.?
Do you tell her to leave you alone or wait for her to give up?
Do you break off relationships or do you just disappear? Do you leave the door open?
FinallyOverIt October 15th, 2008, 10:33 pm
Could the post from “Pete” be a hoax? Something about it seems strange. (I think it’s written by someone who is trying to get everyone fired up).
Astelle October 15th, 2008, 10:38 pm
What seems strange?
FinallyOverIt October 15th, 2008, 11:11 pm
I don’t know exactly, he just seems a little too happy in his EUM existence to be for real. Oh well, it takes all kinds…
Peter October 16th, 2008, 10:54 pm
I think I’m just kind of used to it, I’m sure one day I’ll meet someone who can keep me in check but until then I like to share the love.
As for Astelle’s questions; I’ve never really had that, if I did just need a night off I would turn my phone off or tell them I’m on duty, perks of the job, although I realise they probably only believe me half the time that doesn’t really matter as long as they get the hint!
I always end a relationship although I rarely break up on bad terms, not intentionally so I can go back if I get bored just because I’m a nice guy. I usually explain that if we continued to see each other I’d likely start cheating and I don’t like to do that, but don’t have the self control to not. Surprisingly most girls take this ok after a few weeks we tend to get back in touch and I’m still quite good friends with most. There we’re a few occasions where I, subconciously, acted like an arse until I got dumped, when I look back it’s so obvious, but at the time I was just enjoying myself. This was before I realised what I was like and wouldn’t do it again.
Finallyoverit; there’s no point being depressed, you are how you are and there will always be someone out there with worse problems than you!
Joan Cullen October 17th, 2008, 2:00 pm
this site is amazing. so glad i found it. opened my eyes but my heart is still wounded. why are men like this? what caused them to become so horrible and mean and the sad thing is do they even realise themselves how hurtful they are being in their actions??? or lack of them. please give some good feedback
SuzieQ October 17th, 2008, 6:06 pm
What is wrong with me!!? I started NC 2 weeks ago after having an argument with the EU BF at the 7-11 near my house. I changed my phone number and deleted my e mail account. This morning I was driving by the same 7-11 and I saw him coming out of the store. I beeped, he was looking around but didn’t see me, so I yelled his name out of the window. When he looked at me I waved. He hesitated but waved back. If I didn’t have my son in the car I might have pulled in. Then I started to write him an e mail, but I stopped myself from sending it. I am acting just like an EUM! I need help!
FinallyOverIt October 17th, 2008, 6:17 pm
Joan, I would recommend reading “Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl” that is available on this website. I learned so much from reading it, and I saw myself in almost every page. Also, just reading the posts on this website will educate you about the EUM and the women that get involved with them. Please keep in mind that this website is geared to the woman who habitually finds herself being attracted to unavailable men, and its about women empowering themselves, learning to love themselves and make healthier relationship choices. To me, it isn’t about trying to figure out why men are emotionally unavailable or why they do the things they do. They are on their own little “Planet EU”, but we are the ones that can change and make our lives better and happier.
RES October 18th, 2008, 2:46 am
If only I’d have read this two freaking years ago….
Astelle October 18th, 2008, 2:52 am
Suzie, what did you tell him in the e-mail? I hope you didn’t send it??
Astelle October 18th, 2008, 2:53 am
Peter, can I ask how old you are? Under 40 or over 40?
Peter October 18th, 2008, 9:36 am
I’m 25
Kez October 18th, 2008, 11:45 am
Hi Girls………
Wow, this site is great, I have been reading all the posts and would like to share my stories and knowledge with you all.
I am trying to work backwards here as right now I am single and have been for a couple of months AND trying to figure out WHY I have attracted EUM’s into my life for the past few years. I have a great childhood and wonderful relationship with my dad…..but he passed away 8 years ago, a time when I also went through a divorce. I am trying to figure out if this is where it all BEGAN for me or what??
Anyway…..I have beeb reading about COMMITMENT PHOBIC men alot latey, and I think that I might now also be a commitment phobe but never knew it, hence the reason why I have also attracted this kind of guy into my life for the past few years unconsciously!!!!!!! What a huge wake up call this has been….I have cried alot over this discovery as deep down I really DO want to just meet a emotionally available, happy man who wants a stable relationship.
My wake up call came after my EX was COMMITMENT PHOBE No 3. I could not believe it!!! Number one was a massive shock and learning experience (wedding plans, broken promises ETC ETC, the list is huge), Number two went abit like this…..we went out for 6 months….he was very ‘into me’, talked about having children, moving in together, introduced me to all his friends and family ETC,,,,I never put any pressure on him and just went with the flow for a while.
After 5 months the sudden MIXED MESSAGES began.
ie. I had been out with work friends for a couple of drinks one Friday night, he knew and was cool about it all. On the Saturday we saw eachother and he said to me “Soooo, did you get any phone numbers?” I asked him why I would want to get other guys phone numbers when I was with him etc. He said “Oh, I just thought you might want to get a different perspective on things”.!!!????????
So many things I could write, I could also write a book! Basically he was so scared shitless all of a sudden (because things were going WELL), that he has to sabotage the relationship…and so it began! He became critical, moody and said that we were seeing too much of eachother (once a week is too much!!).
Funny thing was, I became good friends with his sister-in-law who claims that his mother loved me and thought he was going to propose to me!! How little she knew what her 40 year old “little boy” was really like!
Number three (the last one and hopefully FINAL ONE), was a classic EUM!
We met online, he persued me with constant emails and texting and then the phone calls. It was long distance (different states), and he wanted to talk on the phone every night. We got along very well i must say. There was a strong connection and he was keen to come and meet me. We had a 4 month relationship and talked every night on the phone. He came to visit me 3 times and i went to see him once and spent a week with him. He was talking future holidays and plans and telling me how much he missed me bla bla…..he was even trying to convince me to move to his town as there was more work and the weather was better etc. He told me he was ready to be a dad and that I had become his best friend etc.
THEN……..he dropped the bomb one day on the phone. He told me that he had been thinking alot, and that as much as he had deep feelings for me, he was not ready for children (he is 35!), and that we were more like friends than partners!!???? WHAT? Sooo not true…..
I then cried my eyes out and we had another month together before I really thought hard and saw him for what he was…ANOTHER EMOTIONALLY UNAVAILABLE MAN!!! Trying to sabotage and push me away because he was scared !
I decided to end it over the phone before he next came down as i saw the major red flags. He was both upset and good about it all……then 3 days later he sent me a text telling me that I was just being over emotional / hormonal (how dare he!!) and that by the end of the week I would realize that I had just said goodbye to my soulmate!
He is still texting me every couple of days, trying to remain “friends”, but i am ignoring his texts and not buying into his crap.
I am trying to understand how “like attracts like” and how I can work on myself and stop attracting these crappy men into my life when I know I am strong, intelligent, attractive and deserving of so much more!
We all deserve more!! It has taken my this long (I am 38) to really stop and think hard about myself…we as women need to work on ourselves and our self esteem first, then maybe we will not attract these kind of men into our lives anymore….
I will keep you posted on my journey…….
BE STRONG GIRLS!!!
Joan Cullen October 21st, 2008, 1:41 pm
thanks girls, this site is really helpful. i still cant believe what an idiot i have been. 3 years of a very flirty friendship where I didnt know where I stood with all the mixed signals. got together a few months ago to be dumped in the most immature way….. he just ignored me. cut contact with no answers. even though I know i’m better off its so upsetting
ReginaToxicodendronDiversilobum October 30th, 2008, 5:54 pm
Here were my warning signs. These were all red flags waved early on, but because I didn’t know what they were, I found myself in a six-year relationship with an EUM. It is what I call a long-term operator EUM. Obviously I am very envious of all y’all who “wasted” oh, eight months or so with an EUM before turning him out.
1) Very quiet on first date.
He has been cheated on by a previous woman.
2) Leaves after you have sex, won’t stay the night.
3) Disappears for days after the first or second sexual experience.
4) Separated but not divorced.
5) He has been in a number of long term relationships with little time single. (serial monogamist.)
5) Some kind of tragedy in the context of his previous relationships (mine had lost a baby with his ex-wife).
6) His ex is not over him, she’s still in love with him.
7) He has been financially hurt by a woman, or in the context of a relationship (mine lost his pants in the sale of their house).
9) Alcoholism in the family.
10) Father described as being very remote.
11) He says he is not into a serious relationship.
12) He wants to date other women to keep things non-committal.
13) He says he doesn’t believe that love and relationships last.
Somehow we managed to get past all that (we had annual DTR conversations) and into a relationship that lasted six years. By year three of blowing hot, I was very much in love and ready to cohabitate. He would never cohabitate, and I think that is when his chill set in, realizing that I was ready for a real committment. The EU behaviours were implemented very gradually, so I didn’t even notice it, and all the other hallmarks of A Good Relationship were present.
Then for this years DTR conversation he asked me what I would think about his plan: He would move out of his apartment and go “sofa-surfing” for awhile so he could save up money and buy himself a condo so he could have housing security and an investment to sell for his old age. My response? Dude, you have written a future for the short term, mid term and long term WHICH DOES NOT INCLUDE ME! Am I supposed to not notice this, or take it as an oversight?
I am heartbroken and six days into NC.
I think we need to teach this in Jr. High school. We are now two generations of conditioning ourselves to this BS and do not think for a minute that it hurts just us Fallback Girls. Our whole culture gets pandemic heartbreak from this.
Blaze October 30th, 2008, 7:01 pm
I just came across this website. I am a guy though and intrigued by what women have to deal with when it comes to us. I am recovering from a relationship with my ex two months now. But I’m wondering is there something such as a emotionally unavailable woman. Cause reading your article i’m thinking she fit some of those qualities. It’s two months into my break up and i am even of the assumption she has moved on a month into the break up. Question to you ladies out there. How can you know your b/f never hurt you even though you guys have some cashing traits and yet still convince yourself that he hurt you and say the disappointment is still there. I mean that’s what i was told. She has not a clue what i have done to hurt her, she does not know why she is treating was treating me badly. And all because of events i had no control off. Example I was ill, tumor in my spine and i could not walk and feel. I had back to back surgeries. I resumed my life with a full plate. I went to college and i work. Time was a problem in the relationship. She was a teacher at the time. My family, more like my grandmom dissed her twice in front of me at my home. But yet still she knows i’m not to blame but is upset and angry at me. This girl even openly admitted to me that her mom had not been as supportive of the relationship as she used to and had been criticizing it for a long while. All of these things i had no control over. And i have had someone one treat me badly and take me for granted. She says she is young n wasn’t prepared for my situation. she’s 20 and i’m 25 been together for 2 yrs. And straight from a unhealthy relationship in ours. I treated her much better than the last dude but was more than apparent she wouldn’t let go of him and some other ex b/f.
SuzieQ October 30th, 2008, 8:31 pm
Regina, my ex EUM had some of these qualities:
2) Leaves after you have sex, won’t stay the night. - I never wanted him to stay as I prefer sleeping alone.
He has been cheated on by a previous woman. - wife left him for another man
4) Separated but not divorced. - refused to get divorced because he didn’t want her to get his pension.
5) He has been in a number of long term relationships with little time single. (serial monogamist.) - Never single, went from high school GF to wife to me.
6) His ex is not over him, she’s still in love with him. - other way around - he is not over his wife yet.
7) He has been financially hurt by a woman, or in the context of a relationship (mine lost his pants in the sale of their house). - yes, same thing
9) Alcoholism in the family. - he drank EVERY time I saw him.
10) Father described as being very remote.
8 out of 13 traits are the same, and I bet they had other things in common. My EUM would only text or e mail. After the 1st two months, telephone calls stopped completely.
Like you I spent way too much time with him and I am kicking myself I didn’t leave him sooner. Maybe this will make you feel better - I read somewhere once that when you are tied up in a relationship that is not meant to be forever, the person you are meant to be with forever is also tied up with someone and that the the two of you will be single at the same time in the future. So maybe you were just killing time with this guy while your true love was busy. I hope this is true!
ReginaToxicodendronDiversilobum October 30th, 2008, 8:49 pm
Sorry for the stupid emoticon where #8 should be - don’t know how that happened.
Daisy November 3rd, 2008, 1:43 am
Another thing about emotionally retarded men (great name alpha lol) they always speak about sex, but only after they have reeled you in first of course when they were charming, considerate etc etc
jigna2 November 10th, 2008, 8:25 pm
while not ALWAYS true, one might list:
“meets the majority of his dates/girlfriends online.”
i have found that the internet, including activities and social networking sites, as well as pure dating sites are gathering points for men (and women) who want the illusion or benefits of a relationship, without the work or being the real thing.
if this is how you met your man… USE THIS LIST to check against the dating patters. it’s always what he does, not what he says!
pkitten November 11th, 2008, 9:15 pm
I cant thank you enough on this website. I actually met someone online, we talked and chatted then I went to visit him. The relationship started turning sexual Ever since then I have been wondering the status of our relationship— It was so wrong of me to VISIT him, he should have visited me instead. We continued to talk, and when i would bring up, “where are we” he continued to remain ambigous: I want to add a few more pointers to the list:
* He is in his late 20’s or early 30’s yet has only had 1 girlfriend- my EUM, 29 years old complained that there were no “good girls ” for him hence the reason why he had only 1 girlfriend. and his previous relationship was only in college. RED FLAG—
* Uses other escuses to make up for the fact that he cant commit , ” im really busy with work/school”, I dont have time for a relationship.
Im kicking myself for not listening to my gut instinct of this guy. I m thankful that i followed the NC rule.. basically after 2 months of no contact out of the blue he instant messanges me.. i told him that i have no further contact with him ( no facebook, no phone number, IM) because he is an EMOTIONALLY uncommitted man. He pleads with me to be “friends ” and uses the escuse ” girls have hurt me in the past” , ” so Its YOUR way and the highway” and i respond by telling him YES - that i have figured that he is noncommittal and no matter how many escuses he has he DOES NOT WANT ME… nothing would further friends with benefits. I want and deserve committment
This website enabled me to have a “ureka” moment- and for that, i am very grateful
Bob November 16th, 2008, 5:21 pm
A cofession of a man…. IM EXACTLY THIS MAN…. after i’v been loving and romantic…
Not Happy,,,, Can you suggest a solution,, or should i be hangged high,,,, Who is the lady to attract me back to my good nature?
Bob
NML November 17th, 2008, 1:55 pm
Hi Bob, I feel for you, I really do! But actually, it won’t be down to a woman to change you or fix you. If you know you’re this way, take responsibility and figure out why and be different. At the very least make a conscious effort to be different or stop dating because there are too many men out there behaving in the same way, thinking that a woman will come along and make it all better, but no woman lives up to your ever changing goalposts.
Alfie December 1st, 2008, 10:49 pm
HOLY CRAP! This list is scaring me. I believe my ex had all the symptoms of being a EUM:
He frequently pushed for 3-somes or open relationships. In fact, he wanted me to be bisexual for him for that reason.
He had a bad relationship with his mother ( I could hear him treat her like crap in the background).
He proposed to me & never gave me a ring.
He’s very bitter towards his ex & women in general.
“I don’t respect women…except for you”, was what he said.
He told me that sex is how he expresses his feelings.
Cynnie December 4th, 2008, 12:48 pm
Based on my experiences with Mr. Unavailable, I’d like to add:
1. It’s never their fault - You were waiting for him at eight, but he swears what he said was “I already ate” See? He didn’t stand you up at all. You just weren’t listening.
2. You’re too demanding - How dare you want to see him more than every forthnight?
3. They have great difficulty giving you an apology. After all, it wasn’t their fault (see #1). And if you do get an apology, it is not sincere.
4. They are always busy.
5. You’re always LAST on their list of priorities - that is, if you even make the list.
6. They don’t include you in their plans. Asking him “what’s on this weekend” will never get a straight response and if you do, they will be “busy” and not be able to see you or spend too much time with you.
7. Worse, they don’t ask about YOUR plans….
8. It’s their way or the highway
9. They seldom have any close male buddies. Ask him who’s his best friend and see what he says…
10. People at work are simply not as good as he is and as a result, he’s busy picking up their slack. They don’t like him because he’s so professional… (giggle - we know better. It’s because he’s an assclown!)
11. You’re very upset and of course, want to make things right, so he’ll tell you how sexy you are and how much he loves you. He doesn’t addresses the issues but hopes that by flattering you it won’t be so obvious.
12. Like NML says, they have lots of problems. Mine had car problems, health issues, family crisises and work stress. Why couln’t I be more understanding and realise that the crumbs he threw my way was the best that he could do?
13. Mine was ALWAYS late, that is, if he bothered to show up. He was late because (pick any reason from #12).
14. They tend to know very little about you, but you know about them. Go ahead, ask him questions that he ought to know based on your lenght of time together. Betcha he scores lowly. After 11 months, mine didn’t know where I went to college, my mother’s name (whom he met), how many siblings I had or my biggest fears (heights and spiders). BTW, all the above questions I knew about him.
15. He is almost always broke.
I wish that I had wised up a long time ago. So glad that I found this site, realised that I wasn’t nuts and have taken steps to save my sanity.
Sandy Girl December 7th, 2008, 3:42 am
After reading many of the posts here I would like to comment (if only to see it for myself in blk&wht….)
It was once pointed out to me that I always seem to “pick men who have thicker walls than I”. That way I could always look to how “unavailable” these men were. I was warned that one of these days I just might pick a man who decides to take his wall down…then what do I do? Can “I” step up to the plate at that point?
I have the same experience as most of the posts I have read here. And I think it is helpful to have feedback and validation that I am not the only one. But it isn’t the MEN I choose who have the problem..they are just being who they are….it is ME that is picking them! So I am the one with the problem. The only one I can change is MYSELF. Otherwise I will continue to repeat the same drama over and over again. I have to be the one to step out of the ring and walk away…and do something different (easier said than done, I know). One of the things I have been asking myself is this…..what am “I” getting out of this? I must be getting something, or I wouldn’t continue to do it. It might be those old tapes in my head that validate the notion that I don’t deserve anything better. Truth be told…I had this realization about myself….
I am considered by other people to be extremely atttractive. I am very bright, funny, kind…the whole package. Yet, I….ME….use “what I have” to get what I want (in terms of a man). And everyone one of those men is the same man, different face. It is my lack of appreciation for myself, and all that lies beneath my skin, that I don’t value about myself. So I find someone who reflects that (EUM). And then the idea that I am only of value for my looks is reinforced. So I try, try again, thinking…..hoping…next time itmight be different. But it is me who is creating this (those men just ARE WHO THEY ARE….and it doesn’t make them bad…it JUST IS). I need to look at my own behavior…and when I do that (in any area of my life I am struggling with), my choices change. They CHANGE. ME, and MY CHOICES. The fact that there are EUM out there is irrelavent….I am the one picking them. I can continue to do the same thing over and over and scratch my head about “how this always happens to me” or I can take responsibility for my own choices and actions, regardless of the origins of those unhealthy choices. It is only when WE decide to change…that our life does. No one is going to come along and magically do it for us. We just keep getting opportunities to do it differently…..and that means to walk away. Or we can just keep doing it…and never have any of it change.
Vivienne December 15th, 2008, 8:31 am
I definitely agree with you Sandy girl. It’s weird because there truly are plenty of great guys out there, but for some reason I ( along with many of the women on this site and millions of others) always fall for the type of guy who treats us like we’re beneath them or somehow not worth getting to know on a deeper level. I also have been told I am very attractive and I would never admit this if I weren’t on a blog site, but I play it up as much as I possibly can and I think it’s because a part of me feels that that is all I have. (I know logically that it’s not)- I actually have a lot going for me but I think because I learned at a young age to be dependent on my looks for male attention (before that I felt invisible) So I learned to work with what I had and sort of became a master at getting guys to like me, but it always ended there because I never knew what to do after that- I always figured they would see through the facade and realize how insecure I really was. Thinking back I can’t really be all that surprised that I wind up dating guys who are only in it for the conquest of something they want on a sexual and instinctual level, when that is the main thing I’m advertising about myself. It’s not like I dress really revealing or act promiscuous, I think honestly it has more to do with the way I feel inside, and as a result, the type of signals I project. It is the type of attention I know exactly how to attain and has become a sad substitute for a meaningful connection with someone who truly likes and wants to get to know me for who I am on the inside. I don’t know if anyone can relate to how I’m feeling- but it has been really soothing for me to read the stories of all of these intelligent women are also struggling to see their true value as something separate from the praise of their EUM on one of his “hot” days only to find themselves desperately grasping for that feeling of self worth when he grows cold. I wish you all the best of luck in figuring it out how amazing you truly are no matter what cards you are dealt in the dating game- I will be out here doing the same. xoxo
Karina December 17th, 2008, 1:26 am
After reading this list (lol) seriously, they all apply to a situation I dealt with for 3 months. I’m upset at myself for being such a smart women and for knowing these things and STILL hanging on. However, it is part of a learning experience and I thankful that I learned it.
Sheila December 17th, 2008, 10:11 pm
Cynnie.. that is funny funny stuff.. I just read it and laughed… These guys are pathetic ass clowns.. loved your additions to the list
Jordana December 18th, 2008, 10:05 pm
Ok,are these sigsn of an assclown or EUM?:
1.He tells you that “all women are messed up in the head/whores” & that he doesn’t respect women except you?
2. He proposes to you after know him for 6 months?
3. He thinks getting blowjobs from women doesn’t count as cheating?
4. He has “I’m the man” mentality(He gets jealous when you had more sexual partners than him from the past)
Gaynor December 19th, 2008, 5:36 am
No, he just sounds like he’s majorly screwed up. Sounds like this one has a lot of serious issues. RUN!!!!!
Anela December 20th, 2008, 12:03 am
i wish I’d know about this site earlier this year. This guy I was involved with (long distance) started with the little disappearing acts, as soon as he knew he had me hooked. It took me a *long* time to get to that point, so I was even more angry when I realized what he was doing.
When I started to question him, he refused to give me straight answers to several questions, at one point asking me “What is truth, anyway?” Ugh! I called him on that, and everything else - the only times he contacted me after that, were when I was upset and apologetic (for offending him at one point). As soon as I called him on his telling me that I’d made up some kind of fantasy vision of him, that there was no way he could possibly live up to it - he’d forgotten that the thing I called him on had been a belief that I held about him, because he’d stated that that was the way he lived, IN WRITING - he was back to avoidance mode. This was a man who’d claimed to love brutal honesty (only when it serves him, it turns out). He missed my birthday (the first incidence of no-contact - about three weeks), didn’t even ask me about it. He claims to not understand the big deal about turning a year older, a year closer to death - he couldn’t even ask the woman he supposedly loves, if she had a nice day?
He came back into my life after about four months of no contact, when he learned that I was very upset and going through a hard time (for a variety of reasons). He told me he was there if I needed someone to talk to, but proceeded to also point out that I shouldn’t need any answers to the questions I still had for him - that if I did, then that just meant that I loved the drama. I countered that as usual, and after several messages where he tried to fluff me off, he finally asked me that I really wanted to know - this after I’d briefly lightened up, and joked with him (giving him a new nickname, based on his dodging). At first I said there was no point in asking, but I then asked him. I got an answer, but I have no idea if it was a truthful one (it was about his sex life - he added “I don’t know why you’d need to know about that, but…” ???
I decided we might be able to be friends - we were friends before, and he has his good points… he occasionally goes mushy, and I become guarded - whenever I think that we might be doing fine just as friends, he suddenly backs off. When I back off, or act as though I don’t care so much anymore, here come the emotions. I’m afraid there’s a small part of me that wouldn’t mind if things did work out somehow, but I’m well aware that it most likely won’t, so I’m not shutting myself off to other prospects, and am pulling back. Whenever he plays the games, I ask myself what I’d tell my sister if a man was doing that with her, and I pull myself together. Then, of course, I wonder why I would even want him as a friend - I have trouble holding a grudge, and feel that once someone’s been important to me, they always will be.
When I mentioned recently that I had a cold, there was no mention of “I hope you feel better,” or anything of that nature. Nothing. He makes sure to keep his distance emotionally. A couple of days ago, he did something that he claims he thought was a very thoughtful move on his part (it wasn’t). He was aware that it wasn’t appreciated, but did he turn things around? Nope. When I pointed that out, he asked me what the big deal was… he’s well aware of what the “big deal” is, but he obviously has his reasons for doing this, so I’m pulling back, and taking care of myself.
I love this website - I’ve been reading bits and pieces here since Wednesday. I can’t believe that I’ve attracted this man to me, after doing my best throughout my life to not attract this type of relationship. In the beginning, he was Mr. Wonderful (of course). I should be doing the No Contact thing, but made the mistake of responding to something this morning. I have his mail filtered to automatically archive, but I’m thinking of sending it directly to trash.
(((Hugs))) to everyone dealing with this type of relationship. The ironic thing is that I usually love to be single - I actually wonder if this is why I’ve attracted him to me.
Gaynor December 20th, 2008, 7:34 am
Anela,
This is not about holding a grudge but protecting yourself from someone who is not concerned with your best interest. In fact, by allowing this man to continue to be in your life, you’re allowing more opportunities for drama, hurt, confusion and excuses.
You know this guy isn’t going to change and you can’t expect him to, so why hang onto something that isn’t there and never will be? It sounds like he has shown you repeatedly that he doesn’t care, so why keep asking him to care if he is incapable of doing so?
Honey, send to trash!
ReginaToxicodendronDiversilobum December 20th, 2008, 7:41 am
Here is one more of the red flags to add to my previous list, another lady on this site mentioned this in another thread, and it was common to me and a few others of my aquaintance:
14) He says negative things about friends who are getting married or are already married. Things like, why would anyone screw up a good relationship by getting married, or how his male friends who were married were somehow dominated and trapped by their wives.
I consider myself marriage-neutral, but I now know that a marriage-negative man is probably way EU. I feel like I could have a lifelong commitment to someone without being married to them, but anybody who has those sorts of attitudes or beliefs would not be able to do a long term committed relationship of any sort, married or no.
Gaynor December 20th, 2008, 7:46 am
Regina,
Mine had the same attitude about marriage and even people in long-term relationships. I thought it was very strange at the time and should have put a lot more weight into it.
Gaynor December 20th, 2008, 7:48 am
One last thing. I find it so odd as he was married over twenty-years.
juststartedtherapy December 20th, 2008, 3:16 pm
Thanks. I am an intelligent 40 year old woman and have spent the last three years applying all of my intelligence to making a relationship work. I’ve told myself that he’s doing the best he can and I shouldn’t project my expectations onto him. I’ve told myself that I need to learn patience and accept him (Bridget Jones style) just the way he is. But recently I was searching a website for “answers” as I have been doing for 3 years and it said “Why would you want to be with anyone who doesn’t love you back? You deserve better. You may discover you are repeating a pathology from your childhood, clinging to someone who doesn’t appreciate you in an effort to win the approval you could not get from your parents. Seek professional help to dig deeper if you suspect this is true”. This was a bit of wake up call for me and I’ve recognised from that and this site that 1) he’s a classic EUM and 2) my feelings for him are like an “addiction” – they make no rational sense. He’s really not that special and I suspect the incredible “high’s” I get when he treats me like a princess (as he does occasionally) are actually because he’s filling an empty space that’s probably linked to my early relationships, feelings of rejection etc. It feels incredibly good when it’s going well but likewise when it’s going badly the pain is out of all proportion and may well be linked to early childhood stuff. So, I’ve cut off contact and have just started therapy to try and understand why I have pursued this dysfunctional relationship for so long without being able to stop myself. I want to explore my early relationships and try to make sure that I’m more aware of my own ‘baggage’ and don’t make the same mistakes again. I’ve had one therapy session so far and been out of contact for 18 days and it feels good. Good luck to you all and thank you so much for all the messages on here - so helpful x
Carm December 20th, 2008, 3:16 pm
Regina,
I’m glad you mentioned this attitude, I have come across this before too. They describe marriage and long-term relationships of friends and family like the woman is some kind of ball and chain and nagging controller. I brushed off this attitude at first thinking I don’t have anything to worry about because I am very easy going, thinking that he will see I’m not like that. I should have paid more attention to this sign too.
just right December 25th, 2008, 6:31 pm
I am so glad to have a forum to be able to vent and get a little feedback. I am finally able to put a name to the men I seem to get involved with. I have dated very little for the past 22 years because I was raising my 2 children - alone. I have had a couple of kicks at the cat but only one semi-long term and one totally screwed up fiasco. I am writing about my “epiphany”!! Yea!!!!!
I met a man who is in the same business as I am and does work for the same company that I work with. I asked him to do some contract work for me and somehow during the project we decided to go out together. Our first date was really good. I am a successful, intelligent and strong woman and I have always wanted a man that could “take charge” - a little! He asked me out, picked the restaurant and came all the way up to my house from downtown and took me back all the way downtown and back home again… no whining about how far or if I could drive down and meet him. I liked that I didn’t have to think about the evening’s plans or do anything except enjoy it. I was leaving for Europe the following day for almost 3 weeks - on my own. He said at the end of the evening that he would “miss me” and theat “he missed me already”. I thought - hmmmm - that is very nice of him to say. I thought that I would like to see him again and would look forward to it but I certainly wasn’t going to miss him. I emailed him a few times but never got any response. I stooped emailing him…..too busy anyway. When I returned home I called him - we had work which he had a deadline on that he missed and I needed to see the status of the project - he said “You know how they say your life can’t get any better, and then it does? Well my life has just gotten so much better.” Really I asked - why - “because you are home.” OK - now I wait for the next line about how he would like to see me …OOOPS ….I get “can I call you back?” OUCH. OK no call until the NEXT afternoon and I hear from my client that he called them to get my number!!!! Guess what …he should have had it stored in his cell since I called him the day before!!! So know I am getting that “niggly” feeling. The red flags are up!! He doesn’t ask me out or when he can see me he puts me off again about how we need to discuss the “project” but he still hasn’t done what he was requested to do. I stop communication with him at that point…he calls 2,3 or 4 times a day for the next 5 days. I do not return his call. I send an email to the client copying him in that he will send them the information. He emails me back … we need to discuss it…nothing to discuss actually he knows what to do.
Break at this point because I have also noticed that he only calls me in the morning or afternoon on his cell between appointments. Never at night. Never on the weekends, although our first date was on a Saturday night. More red flags.
I tell him in the email I can discuss the “business issue” after 7 pm. tonight. He emails me that he is done at 10 and can he meet me somewhere. I do not respond. My hackles are up and I am not getting good vibes. He does not regularly check his emails either….in the business we are in you need to be in constant touch.
I don’t have to tell you what my suspicions were but I had them and I wanted out. He finally got through to me 5 days later after calling and leaving message after message……I was all business and told him that I wanted nothing to do with him as I felt he was full of shit. I was not going down that road…long story short ….he convinced me that he was just ” not good at theis dating thing since he hadn’t done it in years…blah blah blah. Would I give him another chance. After a letter from him that included “if we were going to have a relationship I had to communicate with him and not shut him out” I told him what my expectations were and if he was shitting me it was his bad karma…. Needless to say - there was one good evening after that where he came to help me out and we had a long chat and then he kicked it into high gear….call at least twice a day for 4 or 5 days, then nothing…….asked me out for brunch SAt/Sun and rushing off …..no more Saturday nights no Fridays no communication - on the weekends. The usual stories - I have to change my life - too much work - I do know he works evening weekends - it’s the nature of our business - but I made time. He said the working cost him his marriage….but he hasn’t changed. He said he threw himself into work after the separation. I do not think he had his divorce but it was 4 years. I told him he would never have a relationship with anyone unless he was able to give his time…he said it would all change in the New Year…he was committed to it. Just give him a month.
Then the good stuff came…after spending a Sunday afternoon together (and yes it got intimate - there was a huge physical attraction and I hadn’t had sex in over a year) he casually said that “he didn’t want to disappoint me but December was a very busy and important month for him because it was his favourite time of year and he wasn’t going to have much time to spend with me…blah blah blah”. He also “felt bad about saying no to me” if I asked him to do something…BTW I only asked him out once which I sent 2 emails on and no response until the day he told me it makes HIM feel bad to say no to me. FUNNY how these guys turn it back into YOUR fault! I was going to that party with or without him and he knew it. I never asked him to ANY other parties except one - the one I was having. I couldn’t say anything to him because I was shell shocked by what he said so I waited until I had my wits about me and I broke it off with an email. It was a classy letter - skimming the surface of what I felt and wishing him well……….then ………….2 days later he sends me a note saying “Sorry it didn’t work out between us and he hadn’t met expectations.” That the timing was wrong and so we were on different pages. Also he wanted us to remain “dear” friends. I hadn’t read “the Book” yet and didn’t even know he was an EUM but that “dear friends” crap mad me crazy. I went out to a big party that night and fueled with several apple martinis and cognac - sent a scathing letter….one which I thought maybe I was channeling Glenn Close in “Fatal Attraction” in…….
I wrote AND SENT the letter that maybe should have been unsent. It was still beautifully written but detailed every bit of what I thought he did and how he was not welcome to disrespect me in ANY WAY….which was down to the last detail the classic EUM behaviour listed in “The Book”.
Thinking about it now - it lasted a whole 3 1/2weeks after I gave him the second chance so I think I caught myself early and I am proud of myself for not slipping into it any deeper.
Thing is - I really just kept looking for the guy that asked me out on that first date. I know now that I will never be a Fallback Girl again because I have come too far and love and honour myself far too much to disrespect myself in that way.
Ladies - don’t let it happen to you ….. trust your insticts and JUST SAY NO!!!
Thanks for the forum to vent … I am so grateful to you all! Bless you and a Happy New Year to all!!!!
Aphrogirl December 27th, 2008, 4:57 am
Great site, love the English wit.
Anyone who is anayltical and been through the EUMK experience has likely done all of the above. I am a 50 year old woman who got involved with a full blown EUM for the first time in my life in my 40’s. Spent close to a decade dealing with the drama queen, mostly as a friend.
Same old story…. when an opportunity arose, after many years, and friends shifted to romance, he freaked. And girls, I had never seen such a spectacle, nor could I ever have imagined the fallout I would experience. I am petty passionate and communicative, so in its own sad way I found his sabotage both fascinating and heart wrenching.
What amazed me was the ” rationalization” that I could do for the boy, and how hard it was to give up on him growing up.
I never sleep with anyone unless it feels just right, and all that really happened between us were a a few passionate kisses as we explored the idea of our friendship evolving into something more.
This thought, however, proved to be enough to freak him out, and he sort of came unhinged and has never been able to really communicate with me since then, I think it was maybe two years ago.
Much like the ” speaks through dogs” concept. my EUM bud sent me soppy greeting card style emails, from faked email personas, weakly trying to explain his mixed up feelings. You know those email thingies with balloons and greeting card poems and such. I could instantly tell they were from the little pup.
Lots of drama with these guys, a bit fascinating in its awfulness.Maybe that’s part of the appeal.
Oh I will always have a soft spot in my heart for him, grounded in some kind of compassion. He really is a rather clueless dude, appears to be not so emotionally bright and it hurts that he could be so dumb to not want work it out with me.
And even though compassion has the roots of the word companion and passion, I know the chance of him retapping into the passion that was in our friendship is slim indeed.
He caused me a lot of grief, said a few mean things, and its sad becasue we really were close before he freaked. The close to 60 year old man has never been able to regain mature composure with me.
Luckily I am pretty independent, open minded, have a lot of interests and keep plenty busy. I do miss him, and carry some sort of sadness over the whole thing and I retain some small hope of him coming around and just being able to communicate again, but I am not waiting on a thing from him.
This site is great because it helps me laugh at the ridiculousness that comes with the EUM territory. I suspect some of us woman find ourselves involved with these folks because we have such emotion and passion and ability to communicate. And thats a good thing !
Claire December 27th, 2008, 9:25 pm
Hi everyone,
This is so great and how much I share the pain with all of you….and it feels so good, and gives us so much support.
I have been dating an EUM for the past 8 months…and this is such a strange relationship. The attraction was enormous, for both of us, on the first date. We connected, not only at the physical level, but also intellectually…same business interests. But he was always too “busy”. We saw each other once a month, for a few hours. I broke off the relationship 6 weeks ago, but he came back to me and I could not resist….I feel so deeply in love, but my brain is telling me to get away running!…for some reasons, I stupidely hope it will get better….he was always straightforward, telling me from the start that he only wanted something “casual and fun”. …that he is not ready…do these men become ready at some point, or is this a desperate battle? Did anyone had any experience of this type of men settling down?…Do they spend their lives like this? Is there a good book that can give me some insight?
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and experiences….
Astelle December 28th, 2008, 1:26 am
Claire, yes, there is a great book for you to read. Download NML’s book “Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback girl”, I have not read anything better than her book and it will answer so many questions for you, you will be amazed! Read her book and let me know what you think or come back here with any questions you may have.
I am also looking forward to her book ; How to lose an assclown in 90 days, even so I feel that I know everything I need to know by now, but her writing style is so amazing and I want to get the last “clues” that I have may missed.
Good luck.
Ernesta December 29th, 2008, 10:41 am
My boyfriend and I dated for several months - online. But he refused to call and make plans to see each other. What’s up with that? In fact, he felt very uncomfortable with the idea of actually talking on the phone and meeting up even though we were supposedly into each other. He accused me of going too fast but I don’t think I was. Was I? Caught an EUM alright! No worries, I ended it 3 weeks ago and we haven’t been in contact since!
Shelly894 December 29th, 2008, 3:47 pm
I am still trying to get over a breakup from a few months ago. This site has helped me so much because up until now I have been beating myself up wondering what I did wrong. I now understand that I was niave to think I could change a commitment phobic person.
He is lovely. A truely lovely guy who was my best friend. We had so much in common and spent all our time laughing and joking with each other. I’ve never been so happy. I was quickly introduced to his friends - but he never introduced me to his family (even after 8 months together and practically living together). He said that his mum might have issues with me because I am a single mum.
I accepted this and just enjoyed my time with him - but when I realised I was in love with him I needed to know that I wasn’t wasting my time with him as I want marriage and kids in the future. He didn’t want to talk about it because he had a hangover - but phoned me 4 days later to say he’d thought about what I’d said and decided that we should just be friends. I’m apparantely a really lovely girl and have been very good to him - but he can’t give me what I want.
I was devastated and did the worst thing ever - begged him to take me back. I’m a strong independent woman and I am disappointed that I let myself down - but I have been suffering from depression since the suicide of my dad - so I think my medication just needed time to adjust to my devastation and feeling of loss.
I’m now beginning to see that although he was and still is a lovely person - he was not the one for me. I would have always been insecure and been acting needy because I wanted reassurance from him. Something he couldn’t ever give.
Good luck to all you girls out there - it will get easier! Mr Right is probably just around the corner!
Claire December 31st, 2008, 11:23 am
I agree with (nearly all) the ‘how to spot’ traits in an emotionally unavailable man. My own story is that my relationship with one has just exploded/ended after a painful 8 years. Would have ended earlier if I hadn’t kept ‘rescuing’ it - so its my own fault. I would just add that many such people (my ex included) I now believe to be suffering from a mild form of ‘Avoidant’ syndrome. If you Google ‘Avoidant’, you’ll see what I mean. That has been comforting to me - although I generally hate ‘psychological labels’ - at least it helps me to know why he and I were not compatible. Good luck to those of you - like me - who must ‘move on’…..and also to those who are themselves Avoidant and fear close relationships.
Gaynor December 31st, 2008, 4:04 pm
Shelly,
First, I’d like to say how sorry I am re. the loss of your dad. I can imagine this situation intensified everything you experienced with you father.
Did he ever say he loved you or was planning on moving forward with the relationship? And why can’t he give you what you want????
Veronica January 4th, 2009, 8:53 pm
I recently bought the book, ” Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl,” and am finding it an eye-opener and very helpful. NML stated that we find relationships that reflect back to us the misconceptions we have about ourselves and love, so I decided that it might be helpful to myself and possibly others if I write down all of the misconceptions I have about myself and love. No doubt some of these were formed from childhood, but a good deal of it started after my ex husband. Although I can see why it’s helpful to be in touch with these misconceptions, I’m not quite sure about how to get past them. I’m not done reading the book yet, maybe she’ll explain how to move past this negativity?Anyways, here’s my list (and yes, I know it’s screwed up):
1. No one will cont. to love me after they find out all my flaws.
2. Relationships and love do not last or cont to be as good after time.
3. My lover will get bored w/me physically and emotionally and I have to perform to keep him.
4. If I do not rush into things, the man will get bored and will not cont. to pursue me.
5. All men hype up their feelings in the beginning but they aren’t sincere and do not follow thru w/their promises and declarations.(Doesn’t matter how much I’m invested because the man will never be as invested as he says he is.)
6. Men are in general very fickle and dishonest, and cannot be depended on.
7. Love is an obsessive, hyped up, silly, dishonest haze brought upon by heightened hormones and perfect behavior in the beginning.
8. No man sticks around unless I behave perfectly in the beginning, or really ever (do they stick around.)
***Side note *** Really all my misconceptions involved me performing and “behaving” correctly.
While I know that these feelings are skewed and not ALL men are like this, from reading about so many cases, I find that a good portion of men ARE like this and sadly, it’s kind of true. Also, in the beginning of forming relationships, it really is a sort of game and we have to perform, otherwise there are “red flags” and the man leaves. Like NML said, it’s ok for the men to be screwed up, but they flee at the slightest sign that we’re not perfect. And nowadays, it’s o.k. to drop anything at the slightest sign that it’s not perfect. Where’s the happy medium? And really, what makes a man want to be committed in spite of flaws/fears? Because really we all have them, and they seem to be quite similar. I guess it really comes down to how well we manage/suppress them?
NML January 5th, 2009, 4:37 pm
Hi Veronica, thanks for your comment and I’m actually going to use it as a discussion point for today’s post. I will post the link later. Thanks
Jan January 5th, 2009, 7:56 pm
Oh boy, Veronica! You have certainly brought up ALL the same things I have experienced. We can’t all be wrong??
I can (kinda) identify myself as a bit of a ‘love addict’ (according to those psychologists websites) and my ex as an ‘Avoidant’ (if you Google that word - a host of familiar-sounding traits awaits you!). But how do we get past it? How can we get past our very personality, which can be so deep rooted as to be partly in our genes and partly learned from bad experiences? (Or so they say)
Apparently I am a typical ‘love addict’ in that I would probably run a mile from a guy who treated me well - as I’d find that a lot less appealing, despite the pain of being used/dumped by the other sort. So I guess that means we only have ourselves to blame?
Jan
BBP January 5th, 2009, 8:05 pm
Veronica - what a iist. I just printed that out so I could bring it to my therapist tomorrow. We’ve been talking a lot about “performing” and wanting to be the most “perfect” at life, and not in a “best in the class” kind of way, but sort of an “overall best” - best at my job - staying late, being reliable etc; being best at being a friend - understanding, self-sacrificing, coolest girlfriend - always up for fun, sex, relaxed with the rules, etc…, in the meantime my therapist keeps asking me what it is about these men that I am attracted to… reading your list just gave me a big “ah-ha” moment about where she has been leading me.
Veronica January 5th, 2009, 11:48 pm
I don’t find it hard to be alone and I don’t really go out and look for men, but I don’t avoid them either. Men always seem to find me and pursue me! My hang up with performing pretty much lies with my romantic relationships because my experience has taught me that it’s not ok to be “human.” Although I will get creeped out if a boss is purposely staring over my shoulder, watching me closely!
I don’t really know what it’s like to have a guy treat me right actually. I mostly have a string of short lasting relationships (like a few months) being as how I usually do stick up for myself and say when something is wrong. The only EUM I stuck with was my ex husband because of religious beliefs my family drilled into me, but I got rid of him a while ago. He was more than just an EUM, he was abusive as well. I realize I have some serious issues to get past, but I don’t know how to address them, seeing as how that’s all I’ve ever known. Therapy is not really an option for me at this point in time, but it’s something I’d like to save for soon.
Veronica January 6th, 2009, 12:00 am
P.S….. I think I just take too many people at face value and believe what they tell me too quickly. I think I’m too hopeful with men. They live up to what they say in the beginning, but then they don’t stay consistent. They “blow hot and cold” like NML says. Although, I say something and they break it off, or I break it off early on. So, I guess it’s good that I don’t stay around for too long! The only problem is that I’m not finding anything healthier either.
ARulesGirl2theEnd January 9th, 2009, 6:53 pm
Hey Veronica, I think sometimes we over analyis men and their motives, in my experience men are men with the traits that Peter pointed out. In his defence that does not in my belief make him a assclown or unavailable. Men are very simple creatures and that is not meant in a derogitory way, in fact that came from an extremley healthy married male friend of mine. In truth most healthy men still need a reason to commit, they hate needy women who make them the centre of their lives, and who get the hump when things dont go their way. In fact nor would I. They like a chase, and for us women that gives us control, the way the law of nature intended it. Men are the pursuers. We as women then lose are minds, when they lose interest, sometimes we have look at ourselves to see why they lose interest, and yes sometimes its us. However in no uncertain terms should we ever put up with shoddy crap disrespectful behaviour. If we do then its no wonder men lose respect for us. I have a rule, its called the me club. If people dont go by my rules their out, full stop no ifs buts or maybes. Men are not children, its not our job to anaylis them and fix them. If they want fixing they will go and find out what they are doing wrong, where their going wrong themselves. Im a mother I dont need any more children thankyou very much. In retrospect, sometimes giving a man the boot, ie zero tolerance can sometimes be the best thing you can do for them. However if they dont get it, its not your problem anymore.
Jan January 10th, 2009, 8:35 am
Dear ‘Rules Girl 2 the End’. You are obviously one of those women who ‘can’ be like that…..you’re very lucky! But many of us are not so lucky - we can’t just flick a switch and suddenly change our personality. No can we necessarily expect to be ‘pursued’ - or even want to be - there are some real freaks out there. The only ‘Rules’ women I know also happen to be very beautiful - and unless they have a vile personality, of course their man is going to pursue THEM. So are a herd of other men! What happens to the ’simple’, moderately good looking woman, who isn’t particularly needy, but who suddenly finds her man has lost interest - he won’t say why - and has become emotionally unavailable. Its heartbreaking - its almost worse if the is no ‘other woman’ involved, as its pure rejection without reason….right in the middle of when things seemed to be going fine. Show me the woman who can get over that and simply ‘move on’ (I hate that expression - it makes it sound so easy) and I’ll show you a heartless cow.
ARulesGirl2theEnd January 10th, 2009, 11:43 am
Hi Jan,
I am a moderatley good looking woman and I am no cold fish. Im not an arse kicker either, Yeah there are freaks out there, but my argument is and I tell my friends this all the time, its about how we look after ourselves from the first time we set eyes on a man we like. Its how we project ourselves. If a man can get it from day one that you are no woman to mess around then he wont. If he does then he has to go. This isnt about turning yourself on and off, no-one can do that,. This about commanding the respect that you deserve as a person and as a woman. Im a woman and know that women are beautiful creatures, with hearts of gold, but if a man doesnt get it he has to go. Being with a man is not about being his best friend or latest hot shag, you want to be a girlfriend, on that pedastal, and why shouldnt you be, what right has anyone got to relegate you to booty call just because his a little bit bored. If he does that then his immature and cant work out his issues, whats happening to him at the moment etc etc etc. Lets look at it another way, I, as probably all the woman on this site, have jobs run homes and bring up children a multitude of tasks and demands everyday, but that does not give me the right to treat those who love me, like me etc like shit. I, and you probably take responsibility for our actions and if we dont then we have to take ours. Its no different, there are no excuses for sloppy disrepectful behaviour full stop. Full stop. None. At the end of the day Im not a mans best friend Im his girlfriend/wife first and that should give me and you and everyone else the right to demand respect, your not asking for the world here, a phone call, to show up when arranged, if they cant do that how on earth are they going to be able manage the real challanges in life. If you want respect from someone else you have to first and foremost give it to yourself and you know why because you are damn well worth it. Any man worth his salt will know that from the get go, if he doesn,t and you should see that he doesnt when you go out with him on the the first few dates, if your not picking up on it, then you need to go back and look at yourself, your values and build your self esteem, you should not ever comprimise those for no-one because as soon as you start, its goodnight vienna. Love yourself first always, then magically those who are emotianally mature enough will love you. Thats a promise. Its not about games, being cocky being fabulous looking, wearing the right clothes, its how you conduct yourself. I never play games I dont play hard to get. But I hold myself with confidence, at work as a mother and a wife, and I pull people up when they give me BS, I always give those I love the benefit of the doubt but when I hear a cock and bull story I let them know and so should you always.
If a man has lost interest, then sometimes its better to let them have the space they are asking for, whether thats through their actions or if they have gathered ther balls together and actually told you. Let them have it, dont waste your time trying to fix it, mold yourself into what they want because its never enough ever full stop. You end up getting less and less and quite truthfully its awful to watch a friend do it to herself, Ive done it myself and never got what I truly desired, Love, more like a kick in the teeth and a crap shag and a slap on the arse as he walks outta the door whistling. No way should any woman put up with that. Your priceless, make sure he knows it. When your gone and he’s on his arse then he’ll get it, but hopefully you will have moved on and it wont matter any more. Men are like spoilt babies at times, you wouldnt let a child get away with crap behaviour, so why should a grown man.
ARulesGirl2theEnd January 10th, 2009, 12:01 pm
Another point Jan, you say what happens when a man becomes emotionally unavailable, no honey he was all along, you probably ignored the signs. Its a bitter pill to swallow, Ive swallowed many but sometimes we just dont want to really see whats hitting us in the face. Im not digging at you, Im on your side, but woman sometimes have to take a bit of responsibility for whats happening to them. Like NML says if it quacks, waddles etc its a duck, not a dove.
Veronica January 10th, 2009, 4:21 pm
I think the reason some of these men are losing interest in us is because we do become too available. Peter is right, if the guy says he’s gonna call at 9 and doesn’t call til 9:30 or 10, we’re there! But to be fair, if you’re in a relationship, made plans to speak at a certain time, and like to keep your word, why wouldn’t you be home? And what person with a regular job schedule, who doesn’t stay out and party like a college student, isn’t home at 10 normally?
So, what should we do? Just not answer the call? Isn’t that technically playing games? And who wants to go back and forth and play little games like that with a man just to keep him, which is basically what we have to do with most men in order not to be taken for granted. I mean, why can’t a man just keep his word? Why promise something you’re not going to keep, when you didn’t even have to promise it in the first place? Also, why tell us you feel so strongly for us, want marriage, kids, etc if the moment we believe you and start to behave in the manner that level of commitment entails- which would be maybe talking more, seeing parents, taking a vacation together, moving in, etc- you just become bored and disinterested because we’re not that hard to get anymore? I thought the whole definition of committing to someone was a mutual agreement that both of you would be there fore each other consistently, i.e. there’s no scramble to “win” the other person like in the beginning stages of dating.
So, my next question would be: How many times does a guy break his word about when he’s gonna call before a little problem becomes a “big problem?” What’s a boundary and what’s just nit-picky? And how do you determine if it’s just an absent-minded thing that most guys do, or something to be concerned about? Most guys will have excuses as to why they didn’t call at that time and will say, ” I’m sorry, but at least I did call.” And what if he doesn’t break his word all the time, but it’s enough to make you uncomfortable and wonder if he’s telling the truth? I don’t know. Dating is too confusing and shouldn’t be so hard, I know this. But having lots going on in your life, being positive, and liking/loving who you are doesn’t necessarily attract good guys. I’ve been there; I wasn’t always so cynical and lacking in self-esteem. I attracted a few decent men with whom there was no physical attraction (at all- as in they were rather ugly) but the assholes still came around and tried to get with me- they got kicked to the curb, but the point is they still came! And seriously what’s the point of all this trouble and thinking over men who (by nature) generally are in their own worlds most of the time anyways? Maybe I will be (happily) single for the rest of my life.
ARulesGirl2theEnd January 10th, 2009, 4:41 pm
But the thing is honey, you have to be nit-picky, if they cant be arsed to ring when they say why should you be arsed to answer. Men let you down all the time like that, and yes Im sorry it is a big deal. It means they have no respect. Therefore you should bang em to rights, if they dont like it, errr theres the door honey!!! go and treat someone else like shit cos you sure as hell aint doing it to this woman. Yes some have viable reasons, er life, but if it looks like BS smells like BS it sure as hell is BS. Being single is a bit crap at times, but its a time to gather yourself for the next onslaught, cos you can bet your bottom dollar they’ll come crawling outta the woodwork. Most men are cads at heart, but men who know they should and want to change do, they are emotionally available, they step back and say ‘you know what this settled life aint bad’ those that dont or cant are looking for the rush! its like groundhog day for most of em. and they are tiresome. Keep loving yourselves.
Jan January 10th, 2009, 6:33 pm
I think there’s a danger of being overly-simplistic here. ‘Emotionally Unavailable’ is a cliche that covers a variety of types of behaviour and personality….right up to a genuine personality disorder. I’m not saying that women should tolerate it - but sometimes it ain’t just bad behaviour - some guys are ‘Avoidant’ (Google it - you’ll be surprised) My last (8-year) relationship turned out to be a guy who ticked all the ‘Avoidant’ boxes….even though (which is part of the personality disorder) he was quite outgoing and affectionate at the start. So, when a guy ’stops trying’ I think women (me included) tend to think “it must be me” or maybe “he’s a b*****d”, neither of which would be true if it turned out your guy was an Avoidant all the time. Most of them are aware their behaviour in relationships isn’t ‘mainstream’ (for want of a better word!) but they are just plain scared. When I realised that…..in my case at least….it was a bit of a comfort, as all the things he did/said (or failed to do/say) fell into place as being a guy with a classic Avoidant Personality Disorder. I’m not saying, by any stretch, that all ‘badly behaved’ guys have APD, but it is a real condition - and whilst you can obviously dump the guy (or be dumped by him) there’s no point balling him out about something that he can’t help because he has ADP. My cousin is a psychologist and I never used to believe her about this, but finally I do. ‘Emotionally Unavailable, she says is a ‘pop psychology’ expression - and she is quite sniffy about that - we all know what we mean by it….but it can have a massive variety of causes, including a reaction to a very clingy woman. As for me - I’m officially giving up men! I suspect most of the women who write on this message board are a lot younger than me - so good luck to you in your search - but I’m now just plain tired of looking for Mr Right!
Veronica January 10th, 2009, 10:35 pm
And Jan, I feel we’re in similar boats. My ex boyfriend I feel is a bit avoidant and has issues because of his ex screwing him over pretty badly. But even if a person has a serious illness, while we may feel bad for him, it doesn’t excuse him from trying to get help and improving. And even if the man had APD and was seeing a shrink, if he can’t give you want you want and need, and you’re not happy, he might as well be able to “help” his actions cuz it all comes down to the SAME END RESULT. For example, if one day a duck shits in your food and the very next day a dove shits in your food, no they’re not the same bird, but the end result is still the same! You still have SHIT in your food!!!
For the longest time I’ve been so concerned with everyone else being happy I forgot that if I don’t worry about me, really, no one else will. Sorry if the guy has an illness that makes him act like an asshole, but I’m not a shrink or a mother, and I want someone who can FULLY give me what I want and need.
Jan January 11th, 2009, 9:25 am
Veronica - I say ‘Amen’ to that! Don’t get me wrong - I’m not torturing myself any longer with ‘my’ Avoidant’…..but it did help to realise what was going on. And although he knows he’s ‘got issues’ with relationships with women (!!) he hasn’t twigged that it is something that he could, and should, get therapy for - and I ain’t going to be the one to tell him…because another symptom of APD is that they can’t accept the slightest suggestion of criticism……or what they would interpret as criticism. It’s knocked all the ‘desire’ out of me for the time being though - I have no dating intentions right now. Also - I think I must be a bit screwed-up as well, because its the classic “I do tend to be attracted to that kinda guy” syndrome. There’s another guy that I’ve known for years who is kind, thoughtful, generous - ‘good on paper’……but, apart from being a friend, I don’t feel a thing for him.
Sounds like we’ve all learnt the hard way.
ARulesGirl2theEnd January 11th, 2009, 9:36 am
Jan- its a tough lesson to learn, and how your feeling at the moment is natural, its seems youve put yourself through the ringer. But you know what, love yourself and forgive yourself and embrace those around you that give a damn. Only love those that love you honey.
Men are true idiots at times, but the best thing to do is not become bitter, learn from it, and then you’ll become as ruthless as me, in a nice kinda way. When I got myself back out dating and it didnt feel right I ended it, and never explained why, you get bored of telling them how to act. Got children, Im doing it already. Be happy Jan you seem a great lady.
ARulesGirl2theEnd January 11th, 2009, 9:49 am
Jan-I dont think its our job to study men, christ others get paid thousands for that, Our job is to go out with them and have a nice time. Spending hours reading about them and all the personailty traits is obsessive behaviour. When you find a reasonable explanation it doesnt help. If their behaving badly from the first date, end it. Im married, and I can tell you, from the hard knocks Ive taken, as soon as I see bad man behaviour start to raise its ugly head I will stamp on it, mortgage or no mortgage. Ive done it before and I will sure as hell do it again. Even if my heart breaks. Its not because Im savvy or hard arsed, Im not Im a puppy and a sucker for a sob story, but the line is drawn cross it if you dare!!! and that doesnt go to just men, its to my co-workers, children, friends and hell even my mother. Im a good person, I give my time and energy to those I think are worth it and even those who aint at times, but any disrespect, it bye bye. Its because of that selfworth, my stong boundaries and keen eye for red flags that in actual fact Ive had to use it very rarley. It works and Im happy and at peace. So will you be.
Jan January 11th, 2009, 12:45 pm
Dear ‘ARulesGirl’ We’re all different - and you and I seem to be particularly different. FYI…..I am not ’studying men’ to the extent a psychologist might study an individual one. I was just stating an opinion. I’d be grateful if you wouldn’t tell me how to feel or what to do. I’m glad you’re happy - and I’m pretty happy being single right now. Thanks all the same.
yvette Thompson January 11th, 2009, 8:52 pm
i was in a ‘relationship’ with an emothionally unattached man. Well it was just sex - but i convinced myself he would love me as much as i loved him. He would come over to my place once a week, and in between that i hardley heard off him - and when i did it was via txt - never ‘live’ chats. I realised i was fooling myself, and after reading the testimonials on here, i know i was. Being on your own and having peice of mind, is so much more than being in a dead end ‘relationship’ that will never change.
Jan January 12th, 2009, 6:02 am
Yvette…… Brilliantly put! I agree totally with that. Did you also notice that you were the only one in his life that he was so ‘remote’ towards? That his friends and family thought he was SO caring and wonderful?? With mine - when his folks found out how he had been towards me, they were genuinely shocked and said “we’ve never seen this side of him”. Its all interesting stuff, but (as we all agree) there’s no point in staying around and being hurt by such a man.
mariposa January 14th, 2009, 5:08 pm
I wonder how do these men get married? I became involved with a married man. I know..I know…big mistake. We were friends for a very long time. I could tell him anything. I didn’t think he was interested in me until friends said that he was. He pursued me and once he got me he became distant. I had no idea what EUMs where until I met him. It’s been hard for me to let go. I just can’t believe that he would change so much. It’s such a disappointment.
Jan January 14th, 2009, 6:09 pm
Sorry to hear of your experience Mariposa. I’m not going to go near the judgmental thing (re affairs with married men), not least because it sounds like you’ve already suffered enough! My guess its because he got scared…so many are like that - thrill of the chase is fine, but as soon as you’re ‘in the bag’, they internally freak out. These men are weak and selfish. Now you know that they exist, you’ll suddenly find that they are EVERYWHERE. There is a freaking epidemic of ‘em. Those that are married are usually trying to play ‘unmarried’, and those that aren’t are probably trying not to commit - and being successful. Why? Because so many of us are mugs - at least until we wake up and smell the coffee (I would say ‘roses’ but I never got any!
mariposa January 15th, 2009, 1:22 am
Thanks for the response Jan. Believe me a lot of married guys have tried to be with me, but I’m not going there again. I would hope I learned my lesson. I was so naive when I first got together with him. I really thought that he fell in love with me and he just couldn’t help himself. I had no idea that affairs are so frequent. At least I’ve learned a lot about relationships.
JohnT January 15th, 2009, 9:00 am
Men Suck. Thought I’d take a look at what my wife n her mate have been gleaning over for the past few days. We’ve got one broken hearted lady staying with us. Sorry ladies, but the above post sums us up. We’re every where, but some of us get it in the end. I def was one of these guys a few years back. What did it for me? I was treating girls and a particular girl the same as the above, until oned ay, dunno what happened cos she was always worried about how I was, she came over, barged in the door, I like a rabbit caught in the head lights tried to give her some shite about not being in contact, she burst into tears and basically told me what a shit I was, I thought ok blah blah blah, but then she told me about what she wanted, and how I just didnt fit the bill, and then she told me how much pain I’d caused her, it was’nt a rant or directed at me it was about how she was feeling, through her tears. I totally felt ashmed I’d led her and her son a merry dance. I felt like crap she gathered her stuff and walked out the door. And for me ladies thats when I got it. I’d wasted nearly two years of her life and there was no excuse for it, all because I thought was having a bit of fun and basically I was scared to commit. It makes me cringe to even think about it, and she was’nt the first…. I had no respect, for her and her great son, who had loved it when I was a around. I totally respected her after that, I tried my hardest to make it up and get her back, but she was done, who the hell could blame her. Sorry we are gits.
Cynnie January 15th, 2009, 11:41 am
I’ve realised that spotting emotionally unavailable men is also about how you acknowledging how you FEEL in addition to what you OBSERVE about these guys. I had observed that the vast majority of his contact with me was viaemail or instant message. That he had no friends. That he always asked me if he loked nice or if I liked his shirt/car/latest gadget.
And as my involvement progressed with Twatman I FELT increasing upset. But the biggest indication that I was dealing with an emotionally unavailable twat was that feeling of waiting.
Waiting for him to show up
Waiting for him to apologise after he hurt me
Waiting for the “right” time to talk to him about us/relationship
Waiting for him to respond to my text/email/instant message
Waiting for him to call me back
Waiting for a break in his super busy schedule to spend time with me
Waiting for him to take me out and introduce me to his friends
Waiting for his latest problem to clear up so that he could focus on us/the relationship.
Then, when he did act decent, I started waiting for the proverbial other shoe to drop, which always happened as soon as we seemed to be getting along great.
I think most of us know deep down inside when the relationship is a waste of time, but we hold out and wait for a change.
Had it not been for this website, I might still be waiting!
Anyway, I’m slowly getting over him and feel as if I could kick myself for being so stupid for sticking around as long as I did.
Jan January 15th, 2009, 5:43 pm
How long did you suffer him Cynnie? Can you beat my 8 years?!! Mind you, mine was a long distance relationship, so everything was in ’slow motion’. I excused the Emails (instead of calls) because of his excuse about the time difference (he in USA, me in UK) but really I now think he’d have behaved exactly the same if he lived nextdoor! Your list of ‘waitings’ matches mine exactly - they probably usually tick all those boxes, don’t they? John….congratulations on your brave admission - a rare thing to see a EUM not only recognise and admit he behaved unacceptably, but even to feel genuinely sorry about it. I fear you might be in the minority, but its good to hear that ‘reformed’ guys do exist! By the way Cynnie - I too am ’slowly’ getting over mine - the real ’showdown’ only happened recently, and is still very painful…..what a waste of so many years - and I feel I have only myself to blame for ‘waiting’. Shouldn’t there be some sort of Govt Health Warning about this? Do women always have to learn the hard way?
Astelle January 15th, 2009, 6:34 pm
Jan, you live in 2 different countries? How often did you see each other??
Cynnie, I remember the “waiting”..
How did you end it, by telling him it is over or did you just “disappear”?
Gaynor January 15th, 2009, 6:37 pm
John,
Did you tell her you loved her or wanted a relationship with her? I’m truly curious as to what you were thinking at the time b/c didn’t you know that she cared for you? This is not a judgement question, just wondering what was in your head .
What happened in the relationship following this woman? Was it with your wife?
Cynnie January 15th, 2009, 6:49 pm
Jan: I was with Twatman for 11 months and then spent a further 6 months trying to get over him and trying to implement NC. You’d think that with his track record that it would be easy for me to break free of him, but it isn’t. I still think about him a lot.
Each time I broke NC the result was the same: a fleeting moment of happiness followed by intense hurt and disappointment.
I’m trying to get off this merry-go-round. I thought that not having sex with him was my saving grace, but I’m still emotionally attached. He has been nosing around saying that he cares about me & bought me a Christmas present (which he delivered 2 days after Xmas because he stood me up on Christmas Day). I’m really tired of him and the drama.
He is angry because I refuse to give him my new contact details (I changed my number & blocked his emails). If he is truly serious, I thought, then let him prove his worth. Let him schedule time with me and make plans. Let him call me (at work) when he says he will. He works less then 3 mins walk from my office. Surprise me with lunch. Let his actions show that he is truly a changed man and worthy of me. He has done nothing differently. Still “busy,” dealing with a “crisis”, not calling and not trying to spend time with me.
Why? “Because he doesn’t have my number,” he says. What a joke. When he had it he rarely used it and now that is his obstacle to being with me? Puleeeeese! He is lazy and I’m glad to be rid of him. Further more, I will not beg him or anyone to spend time with me.
Anyway, I’m trying to get on with my life (minus him) and I’m about 60% there and moving onwards.
BTW Jan, although Twatman works less than 3 mins walking distance from me and lives 20 mins driving distance from my house, it felt like a long distance relationship.
His behaviour towards me is awful and if I continue to stay then I become a willing accomplice in this web of drama, hurt and misery.
I’ve had enough. I’m out.
Cynnie January 15th, 2009, 6:58 pm
Astelle: Each time I’ve ended it I just disappeared - no talks because it is pointless.
During my second attempt at NC I changed my number and didn’t say a word. His ego is so big that he told me my phone wasn’t working when he showed up at my office (1 month later). I told him it was and that I’d changed it and he was not privy to the new number. He was hurt/angry/ego crushed that I did that. Whatever.
At least I don’t stare at my phone willing him to call me and at work, I’m too busy to notice if he calls/doesn’t call anyway.
loverandfighter January 15th, 2009, 8:37 pm
Cynnie–this is the best thing I have read on here:
“Each time I broke NC the result was the same: a fleeting moment of happiness followed by intense hurt and disappointment.”
Honestly…this is what is going to keep me contact free, because I know for a fact that will be the case in my situation. Do I really want to give up all this hard no contact work for just a moment of conversation and a huge disappointment when I realize he barely cares that I have been gone? Heeeeell No!
mariposa January 15th, 2009, 10:11 pm
Cynnie,
That is a good post. I always felt like I was waiting. He didn’t do the asking if he looked nice or liked his new stuff. He always acted like he held himself in the highest regard. He didn’t need to ask anybody for validation, which is kind of ironic since I’ve recently discover he has a MySpace account with over 5000 skanky friends. The waiting I can relate to.
Jan January 16th, 2009, 6:20 pm
Cynnie - sorry to be dim…but what does NC mean? Yeah, mine being overseas, we had to see each other of chunks of time rather than regular dating obviously - but I don’t think that was the issue. His family told me that they’ve never seen him with another woman (but that may be just because he’s so secretive) but the real EUM and Avoidant issues he had would have ended up the same painful result even if I’d been able to see him frequently - I know it.
The mistake I suspect we all make is that we ‘fall in love’ with the man that he pretends to be in the early days……oh, that was divine! I really fell for the ‘I love you’ and all the romantic times - but looking back, they didn’t last long. Its just that you treasure those memories and make the mistake of thinking “we can get those times back - I haven’t changed since then - so he must still love me”. WRONG!!!
The chances are that he didn’t know the meaning of love! He later admitted he didn’t love me - at least not in the way I needed him to. That makes me sound clingy - but I wasn’t. How dare men say the ‘I love you’ thing without meaning it? Can anything be more cruel? Tossers.
I am ashamed to say that I wasn’t the dumper - I was dumped. I guess I knew it would happen sooner or later, so I really should have had some self respect and broken it off myself. Instead, in the end, I was not only heartbroken but humiliated too. From now on, I’m going to assume that ALL men are EUMs unless they prove otherwise….and that means them making at least 50% of the effort, Yep - I shalln’t hold my breath though…..don’t think such men exist any more.
Cynnie January 16th, 2009, 7:38 pm
Jan
NC is No Contact. If you haven’t as yet, check out NML’s post on this subject - excellent.
Mr Emotional Unavailable Man (EUM) was nice in the begining and seemed to look forward to being with me. He even sang and dedicated a song to me when we went to kareoke. He seemed like a gentleman. He used to call, text and instant message. I thought that was teh begining of a beautiful friendship/relationship!. As the months progressed, the calls became few and contact was mostly text or an offline message.
The person that I fell in love with doesn’t exist. Because he was nice in the beining, I wondered if I had done something to mess things up. So I tried to be understanding, nice & patient. Then I soon realised that it wasn’t making any difference and he wasn’t trying. So I quit.
I kept going back/breaking NC because I thought that I would be getting the Good Fella this time around. After three emotional rounds with this dude, it’s clear to me that Good Fella is gone for good (if he ever existed) and it’s now Twatman. My head knows that he is toxic but my heart clings to the memories of when he was nice and seemed to want me (He still proclaims his love, but that’s all it is - noise. His words and actions always contradict each other)
What a cad - he didn’t love you? It took him 8 years to figure that out? Please Jan, just because he doesn’t love you doesn’t mean that you are unloveable.
I can so relate to your story and the hundreds posted on this site.
mariposa January 16th, 2009, 10:18 pm
Cynnie,
I can so relate to your posts. My EUM was so attentive in the beginning. He would call me up to 6 times a day. We text msg all day too. Then it became less and less. I kept waiting for him to come back, but he never did. I’m having hard time letting go because of the way he use to be. I know he’s showing me how he really is now. He broke up with me almost 2 weeks ago because I was getting too demanding. When I think all I was asking for was the basics. Some days are harder than others. It was a 5 year relationship. I just can’t believe it would end so suddenly over an argument about his MySpace. I know it’s time to focus on myself and I’m trying. It’s just very difficult.
Jan January 17th, 2009, 9:02 am
Cynnie and Mariosa
Wow! It seems like we have all had pretty much identical experiences. These guys are all over us like a rash in the beginning, then seem to lose interest just as we have ‘committed’ our heart to them. Its about as cruel as it gets. And yes, I agree that its hard to totally ‘let go’, even after you’ve split up, the thoughts and memories follow you around. Sometimes I even go to bed in a good mood, then wake up at 3 am already in tears - I presume from a dream. That kind of crazy thing never used to happen to me! I can certainly relate to all your stories and to that Katie Melua song ‘Crazy’…come to think of it there are a lot of songs by female singers that were clearly inspired by EUMs…..the Duffy/Rockferry CD is a cracker!
I am getting on with my life as best I can - but this site is brilliant, and it makes us realize that there are a zillion women out there who have been treated exactly the same way. It ain’t us - its THEM. Mine never had the nerve to come up with the old cliche “its not you, it’s me” (although he did say it in different words) but the answer would be, you’re damned right its you!
Trouble is - I don’t know if I’m alone in this - I don’t think I could be attracted to a man who ‘treated me right’ now….after years of the challenge of ‘walking on eggshells’ to get some good times with mine - it has become perversely addictive. Ok, I KNOW that’s not healthy - but I do feel that if a genuinely decent guy asked me out now (huh - how would we even recognise one??) I might be scared off….or bored by him. Maybe we’ve even become EU ourselves?
Gaynor January 17th, 2009, 4:50 pm
Ladies , these guys are MARRIED, they’re unavailable from the start!
ReginaToxicodendronDiversilobum January 17th, 2009, 6:08 pm
John, what you say is almost exactly what Greg Behrendt says in He’s Just Not That Into You.
I am also curious about what what you were thinking at the time, as Gaynor asked.
Gaynor January 17th, 2009, 6:09 pm
I posted in the wrong place. The comment was meant for “But will he try to contact me?”
Cynnie January 20th, 2009, 2:03 pm
Today I feel miserable and I want to confront Him. I want to scream at him how could he do this to me, leading me on if he doesn’t want me. I want him to explain to me how he loves me but yet would not make any effort to contact me or spend time with me. I want him to tell me what he is so busy doing. I want him to tell me how is it that he loved and missed me yet refused to make any real effort on the relationship.
I want to ask him if I am supposed to be thrilled that after making such a fuss and bringing me a Christmas present (2 days late) I haven’t seen him since. He loves me, yet 25 days later he has made no attempt to see me or make plans with me.
I want to know why he just doesn’t leave me alone.
I wish that I didn’t care, or at least that my feelings for him were just like his are for me.
I’m tired being in this “place” of hurt. I saw him yesterday and everything just started flooding back. I want to cry. Is anyone experiencing anything similar? What are you doing to get over it?
*Sad*
Gabriella January 20th, 2009, 2:56 pm
Cynnie,
If it’s any consolation at all I know just how you feel, I am going through the exact same. I feel angry sad, hurt, disappoined, want to confront etc … *but* I have decided to just let him go, and try to find closure by myself. I have found, after many attempts, that trying to communicate with him is completely pointless.
I am keeping busy and trying to look ahead in order to cope. Not easy at all, since he’s on my mind most of the time anyway but … *this too shall pass*. That is my consolation at this time, and the fact that this wasn’t a proper relationship to begin with, just a one-sided one, like the other ones I’ve read about here. Your typical EUM although very nice unfortunately, just to make it so much harder to walk way. But I refuse to vaste more time on him.
Good luck anywaym, I wish you all the best x
Gaynor January 20th, 2009, 3:53 pm
Cynnie,
He’s not going to change and you have to accept that.
I got over it by going strict NC and not looking back. Yes, he attempted to make contact and I ignored it, I knew I had to love myself enough not to allow this selfish, lying using creep back into my life. Self-respect far outweighs any crumb this fool could offer me.
Jan January 20th, 2009, 7:27 pm
Cynnie and Gaynor…..I feel for you, desperately. I feel much the same and still get really ‘low’ times. They are (amongst other things) selflish cowards who are too weak to explain their bizarre behaviour. I know how it leaves you with all the questions and no answers to help with ‘closure’…which is important I think, even if we are able finally to see them as jerks - it takes a stronger woman than me to walk away and not need closure.
We all need the answer to the big ones - ‘why did he pursue me so much, then lose interest when things seemed to be going ok?’ ‘what went wrong? was it me? what went on in his head - and why can’t he explain it?
Girls - all I can say is that this site is a terrific support network to help us realise that we’re not alone….we’re normal, attractive women, yet EUMs see us as nothing more than ‘collateral damage’ to their selfish lifestyles. Personally, I get strength from ‘playing the long game’, i.e. the knowledge that they will end up a lot worse off than us - I am sure of that. I am perhaps in that ‘my ex’ EUM has a mother and extended family who knew and loved me - and they are disgusted with the way he treated me in the end. They stay vaguely in touch with me - which is kinda helpful….especially as I know that the EUM will be annoyed by it!
Try to stay positive Cynnie - the good times will come around again.
Jan
mariposa January 20th, 2009, 8:15 pm
Gaynor,
I know it was wrong of me to become involved with a MM. I honestly thought our situation was different he pursued me and even told me that if wouldn’t have been me that he would never had had an affair, so I thought I was special. I know….stupid me.
It doesn’t make it any easier to get over. The pain is very intense.
Gaynor January 21st, 2009, 1:32 am
Jan,
Isn’t good to move on from these guys!
Jan January 21st, 2009, 8:35 am
Mariposa - Yep - I know what you mean about the comments. Then again, he confuses you by making other comments that make you feel very special. What I think of now is not what they say, but what they DO. If they don’t do things / make efforts to do things that make you feel special, then EUM alarm bells should ring. Looking back on my relationship, a million bells should have rung…..but I guess we all only see/hear what we want to, and try to ignore/forgive the bad bits. I’m not one to judge - I’ve been there - and would probably still be there, if he hadn’t dumped me in the end.
Gaynor - Yes, it is good to move on (although ‘move on’, when that is a phrase that my friends use as an instruction to me, I find pa’kninful and really annoying - do they think I can do it overnight??)
Y’know, when looking in a bookshop last weekend, I nearly bought a copy of ‘Women who love too much’, but in the end, I couldn’t face yet more judgmental drivel - some smartass telling me how I should feel, why I don’t feel like that, and what I should do. Or am I just being rebellious? I think we all just need time.
By the way - I feel kind of sorry for EUMs - they don’t even realise that, the chances are that they’ll end up tragic, lonely, sports-mad guys with beer guts…..if they settle down at all, it’ll be with someone who reminds them of their mother, probably. I’d rather be me.
Veronica January 21st, 2009, 4:40 pm
Jan, my ex EUM actually told me that he might be destined to be alone! I don’t really think they care if they are alone, as long as every once in a while they get their bell run and compliments… I think my ex EUM would rather be on his own, buying his toys, overeating, over-everything to the max, and playing his video games than having to be bothered doing anything else.
bell rung*
ReginaToxicodendronDiversilobum January 21st, 2009, 5:11 pm
Cynnie, what happened when you saw him the other day?
I dread seeing my exEUM. We like the same music, followed the same bands. So what then? Do I go nowhere until I’m not in love with him anymore?
I did see him once at a show, just out of the corner of my eye, and I turned away and narrowed my focus to the wife of the drummer. Later I went home and cried and cried, and it set back my recover quite a bit.
Cynnie, if he ever gets in contact with you, maybe you could tell him that reading “Mr. Unavailable” would be a prerequisite to any further contact. After my exEUM read it, he knew there was going to be no more BS and that I would not be open to a demotion to friends or booty call. Or any other chain-yanking behavior.
If he is not willing to read a freakin book for the sake of your “relationship” then he has finally shown his hand. I bet he’ll make some comment about self-help BS. Which will show that he is beyond help.
ReginaToxicodendronDiversilobum January 21st, 2009, 5:43 pm
Gaynor,
At our last meeting, Oct 25th, he had read nearly all of “Mr. Unavailable.” He was going into therapy. But he said he agreed that he had “a number of these traits” and saw no reason not to call it off on account of that, he really couldn’t be the person who would be in a committed grown-up making a home and life together sort of relationship. I have no idea where his thinking has gone from there because of NC. Sigh.
Gaynor January 21st, 2009, 5:55 pm
Regina,
HMMMM, he seems to be talking out of both sides of his mouth. One one hand he recognizes he needs therapy (seems he knows and wants to change) on the other hand he cannot see himself in a committed relationship who is working towards a healthy relationship. Doesn’t make sense.
mariposa January 21st, 2009, 6:40 pm
I think you guys are right they like to be alone. I know that’s what my EUM told me. Probably so I wouldn’t expect much from him. The thing is he doesn’t watch sports, but he does work a lot. He told me before that he worked so much and stressed himself out so much that he got shingles. I think it was a way to avoid intimacy with anybody.
I’ve been making a list of everything he did, so I can see that he’s not such a great guy. But do you guys ever doubt yourselves. This guy is a charmer and has a way of talking to people that he sucks people in. He has a lot of women friends, but hardly any guy friends. Is that red flag? He’s not very attractive, so the only way he suck somebody in is by charming them and he’s very good at it. I know men have wondered what I saw in him.
Jan January 21st, 2009, 8:03 pm
Mariposa…..oh boy - I relate to ‘making the list.’ I guess we’ve all done that - at least in our heads. It’s pretty painful, isn’t it?
When I get to the end of my ‘list’, I’m thinking,….so why do I love him? Just because he’s witty, occasionally affectionate, and moderately good looking? Why should those qualities still attract me so much in comparison to all the horrible ways he’s behaved? But they seem to
Maybe the shrinks are right - it’s us - we have some disorder that makes EUMs like a magnet to us. God’s little joke, eh?
I’m not finding it funny any more.
But I’m still not attracted to ‘normal’ men, sadly.
mariposa January 21st, 2009, 8:50 pm
Jan,
I’ve actually written it down in my journal. I had to go back and look at it to remind myself of why he’s an assclown.
I wonder if a lot of these guys are witty. He’s also witty and a good listener. Although he’s not very attractive. He’s not somebody that you would see and think OMG he’s hot…nope. He’s somewhat over weight and balding. People can’t see what I see in him. The thing with us is that we were friends for a long time before we crossed boundaries as a friend he was great, but as a lover he is an assclown. I had no idea.
My therapist says that like attracts like. I’m insecure so I guess he’s insecure too. Never thought he was, but from reading and learning I take it that he is. He saw something in me that he could exploit. There’s only certain kind of women that attract him and I take it it’s the ones that will let him treat them like doormats, if a strong woman came along he wouldn’t go for her because she would be considered a bitch.
Cynnie January 22nd, 2009, 12:04 pm
Regina
I was driving home when I saw him, so it wasn’t contact as such. Still, I felt bad. I remembered some of the few, but nice times we shared followed by an avalanche of memories re: the awful things he did. I was happy, then sad, then angry. Today I feel indifference.
Thanks for the advice re: asking him to read NML’s article. If he was too busy to call me, you can be sure he’s too busy to read as well! What’s important is that I read it and learnt so much from it. You can be sure that I won’t be such easy prey for anyone ever again!
I no longer wish to talk with him, discuss the relationship or try to make it work - I’m getting over him and slowly reaching a better place. I am focusing on me, living better, trying new sports and developing new hobbies.
*Hugs*
ReginaToxicodendronDiversilobum January 23rd, 2009, 5:09 am
Gaynor, you are right, it doesn’t make sense…unless you add in the he’s just not that into you factor. So he has issues, he is EU, he might work on that but it still would not make him want me. “Cause the reason he was EU with me is that I really was not the sort of woman he would be willing to make a life with.
What-ever!
Jan January 23rd, 2009, 8:25 am
Hey Regina….don’t be so hard on yourself. I don’t believe it is (or at least not often) true that men who are EU are like they are because the woman isn’t ‘their type’. They are just like that…..a lot of them will enter middle-age and still be single, flitting from one female to another to get their kicks and/or their ego massaged.
You gotta laugh though, eh girls? I’ve got to a stage where (on a good day) I can stop feeling sad for a moment and actually laugh at how we all fell for these creeps, and some of stayed with them for years - on the constant roller-coaster of happy times and totally devastating times. Like one of you said recently “Even in the happy times, I was always just waiting for the other shoe to drop”. When you get to the point where you realise that a guy like that is dysfunctional….is when you start to regain your self esteem and either leave him or be grateful that he left you….
Believe me - anyone out there who is still in a relationship with an EUM….it ain’t worth it…..years down the line from now and the chances are that it will still be the same, or worse. By all means remain ‘friends’ with them if you want to - but if they are real EUMs, they probably won’t want to, as they have no generosity of spirit.
Ashley January 29th, 2009, 8:15 am
Very happy I stumbled upon this site! I’m sorry, this is going to be long but I need some outside perspectives. I think I may be dating an EUM but this one really has me thrown. I’m a little out of touch with dating, so I don’t know what the rules are. I know the usual advice is to follow your gut feeling when it comes to men, but at the same time I wonder if my perspective and expectations are even reasonable. Men seem to be very good at making you think you’re crazy when they don’t like what you’re asking them for but don’t want you to go away.
In my experience, you meet someone especially special, and the two of your can’t keep your hands or minds off of one another for the first few months. But perhaps I’ve got it wrong. I’ve been seeing a man for 3 weeks…we met about 4 weeks ago. He is the first man I’ve developed interest in, in a long time. He claims to feel the same. We get along great and he’s very caring, affectionate, and attentive when I’m in his presence. I’m talking foot rubs, constant hugs and kisses, expressing how wonderful and beautiful he thinks I am and showing me off, holding me tight all night long, talking until we fall asleep and waking up early to talk until we have to part for work… I even caught him watching me sleep the other night! All things that make you believe you’re somebody very, very special to a man. But that’s when we are around each other. When we aren’t around each other, he pulls way back. … he may not answer my texts or calls for hours… he’ll call back when he’s ready, usually around midnight before bed. When I ask him what he was up to as to why I didn’t hear from him, he’ll say he was at the gym, reading, cooking, grocery shopping…something that is a choice and is done alone, not an obligation or such a distraction that you can’t use your phone. He’ll even claim to not have looked at his phone in hours to know that I contacted him. We spent an entire weekend together, he even blew off his friends who were in town by his own choice, but the next day I only spoke to him on a quick hi/bye phonecall during the day. Our work schedules conflict, yet we don’t make plans to see one another…I basically just wait until he asks me and occassionally I hint and he usually gets it and asks. We’re still in the getting to know one another stage, and this lack of desire to get to know me/want me/include me in his day to day life really bothers me. It’s like he pushes me into overdrive when we’re together (he actually pushes me to open up to him more emotionally), then suddenly parks it and pulls the emergency break the next day. I’m thinking about him and checking my phone every half hour to see if he called/textd…excited about this new person in my life and wanting to get more of him to move toward an actual relationship, and he’s happily going about his day as if I don’t exist unless he can see me. He’s a self-described loner, and he’s not from the area and doesn’t know many people so he’s used to being alone a lot. Based on that and a few other factors, I really don’t believe that there is another woman in the picture. If so, I’d have enough sense to walk away. But I do think there is a problem that I need to figure out. The whole thing has me very confused. If you are interested in someone, why wouldn’t you look at your phone for hours to see if they called or text’d you? Would you really rather read a book than call the new woman in your life that you’re still getting to know? Wouldn’t you be anxious to plan your next date together? Personally, I act this way with people that I DISlike. I brought it to his attention after the first week of dating, and gave him an out… I told him that it’s OK if he just doesn’t feel about me what I feel for him…explained to him that his actions in person must have just misled me. In response, he passionately expressed frustration and a bit of offense at the idea that he’s all over me and doing everything he can to make me feel good when I’m around him, but that it’s disregarded over a phonecall. He said that he’s up to do anything with me whenever I ask (which is true), and refuted every claim I made that he was misleading me or not really into me. He made me feel awful for my complaints. Thinking he may just be out of touch, I softly explained to him that if he truly is trying to pursue something with me, that women like to be courted and aggressively pursed and that he’s sending me hot and cold mixed messages. He said that these ideas I have sound like movies and are not realistic. He said he wants to allow me to live my life while still being a part of my life. In a “challenging me to look beyond my way of thinking” kind of way, he asked me if I was going to run away (as if to say it’s fear that has me with these thoughts) or step up. I’ve tried to consider his way of thinking, but it has really begun to look like a man with issues who can’t open up completely. He said he’d do better, and gave me a little more attention for a few days… then today it was back to his becoming unavailable midway through the day until about midnight. This is not what I think falling in love should look like. I’m not saying we should be married tomorrow, but I’m thinking pulling back this way is a sign of something deeper.
To top it off, I am also concerned with the fact that he is 33 and has only had one woman who he will call his girlfriend… she dumped him after three years and he was desperately heartbroken. But this was over 6 years ago! He dated another woman three years ago, but they had an open relationship and after a year she wanted to discuss marriage and he told her that he had other aspirations he wanted to achieve first. She left him. He’s said that he’s in a different place now, but obviously he can be OK settling for an uncommitted relationship, and I’m certainly not in the market for that at all. He tells me that he only dates one woman at a time, and would just like us to enjoy each other and see what it becomes… that we could go all the way to marriage or become good friends. I’m torn between knowing that I can be a bit impatient and may have regrets if I dismiss him entirely after 3 weeks… and feeling like I don’t want to waste my time or obsess over someone who probably can’t give me a true commitment. He’s said that based on how I see him, I’m going to look back and realize that he was a great guy. I understand that people need space, and often men think women are too needy… but when does SPACE begin to look like DISTANCE? It seems to be a fine line. I understand that some people need to move into a relationship at a slow pace, but when I mentioned that I fear I’m dealing with a man who fears commitment he basically told me to stop questioning things so much. He gave no actual answer! I mean, what IS this???? How long do you wait before you determine a man is an EUM?… Does this sound like an EUM or do I just need to relax and give him time to warm up to things?
Karen January 29th, 2009, 2:23 pm
Hi Ashley
I would say that it does sound like this man has some issues. Commitment and other wise. I think like many of us on this site we have learned to pay very close attention to “RED FLAGS” and to not ignore them. It sounds like you have seen many and doubt you’re gut feeling a bit about how they feel to you. If there is anything that I have learned the most from this site its about Boundries (read that section on this site) and determining what is acceptable and not acceptable to you as an individual— the boundries are different for everyone! It sounds to me like you know what you want…. but here comes this man who while has many nice qualities— is missing some very important one’s that would constitute someone who is seeking a committed relationship and that according to you would make you happy (phone calls and texts through out the day, more initiating on his part to get together etc…) all things that we look for when we WANT and are READY and OPEN for a relationship. It sounds like you made him aware of the things that you were confused about and not entirely happy with (which is great) but the next thing to do is to Watch for his actions..not just his words and to see if he walks the talk. He may not be ready, he may be afraid, he may be an EUM, he may be confused…etc..etc…etc.. the list can go on and on but the question that you really need to ask yourself is …. does the WHY really matter? He either is or isn’t meeting certain expectations or needs that you are seeking in someone… I would say opt out before you get entangled in trying to change him etc…. (like some of us women tend to do). I think most of the time as women we tend to doubt ourselves, our gut feelings etc…and we begin to justify or even accomodate behaviour that we know we are not 100% comfortable with but chuck it off to wanting to be understanding, patient, kind etc….. and that is what gets us into trouble sometimes. It is also called “settling” when we know we deserve so much more than that. This man sounds like he has issues (not sure what they are) but the fact that he is undervalueing your feelings (you are thinking about this too much, etc…) as well as the opposing views he has about relationships (this is more like the movies not reality) I would say that it is not a good match for you. Also– there is something REALLY important that he said that should send the alarms ringing in your head… and that is that he is “OK settling for an uncommitted relationship” that right there is the kicker and the answer to your question!!! YOU want a committed relationship– and he is telling you — he is perfectly fine without one. I’m afraid you will spend most of your time going back and forth with him with what discussing or talking about what a relationship should and shouldnt look like or entail (in fact you guys are already disagreeing on this) I don’t want to rain on your hopes and your enthusiasm for having met someone (it is always exciting) but I also don’t want you to fall into the trap (which I already see happening) of you settling for this man because you see the “potential”. Please stay focused on the present and the facts and what he is showing you and not showing you. Actions speak louder than words. Read and educate yourself more with the posts and NML’s advice on this site– you will pretty soon understand what I am talking about and will see for yourself that these are “RED FLAGS” that you need to pay attention to and use them as your guide as opposed to doubting yourself.
I hope this helps!! Best of luck!!!
Carm January 29th, 2009, 2:47 pm
Hi Ashley,
I definately think you have an EUM on your hands. The mixed messages, the turning things around on you when you try to address what’s going on, not making plans, keeping you at bay with the phone contact…all classic EUM moves. You’ve known him for 4 weeks which is not a very long time, and it sounds like when you are together, he blows very hot and makes you feel very special with all the attention and affection..another EUM red flag, to display this kind of behavior in the beginning. You should be getting to know each other, slowly, and that kind of attention and affection so soon in the beginning is not a good sign.
His relationship history also is a major flag. As is the fact he is a self described “loner”. Actually your whole description of this man screams EUM. You are doubting your gut, which alot of us have done before, but your gut is right, do not doubt yourself, and I wouldn’t recommend you wait because this guy definately sounds not capable of commitment.
Take some time and read some of the posts here about emotional unavailability if you haven’t already. Glad you found this site and wish you the best!
Gaynor January 29th, 2009, 4:37 pm
Ashley,
It’s only been three-weeks and marriage is already being discussed? It seems like things are moving WAY too quickly for both sides! You two don’t even know one another but it seems like you are having conversations as if you been dating for a year plus. If this were a normal man he would run for the hills, this kind of talk would scare the hell out of a guy that is emotionally available.
I think this guy is a total EUM but I also think there are some relationship issues on your side, you’re expecting so much ,so fast (marriage talk) Sorry, for being harsh but this seems like a no-win situation.
I don’t understand him previously being in an “open relationship” but “he dates only one woman at a time?” This doesn’t make sense! Listen to the words and watch the actions.
Ashley January 29th, 2009, 5:55 pm
I appreciate the feedback. Just to be clear, we have not actually discussed marriage… I was using his statement about “it can go towards marriage or friendship” as an example of his mentality. Very nonchalant. I’ve experienced enough to know to run from a man who seriously discusses marriage so soon. My issue is simply that he’s hot and cold and I’ve never encountered this before. On when we’re around one another, and lacks passion for me otherwise. I’ve been reading some of these posts and they’re helpful, but everyone’s situation is unique. Some men seem to be blatantly unavailable… their behavior is very suspicious and even downright mean. Others, like my guy, aren’t so easy to read. I initally searched EUM with a hankering that I may have one on my hands, but the information I’ve obtained all seems to be based on perspective. Our experiences change how we process things, so what could be a serious problem could also be my past affecting the way I receive his actions. If I choose to accept that men in general disregard women’s feelings, then I can attribute that to his actions. On the other hand, someone who sees men as individuals, some genuine and others misleading, may see it as my expecting more than what is reasonable. The only conclusion I believe I’m going to come to, no matter how much research I put into understanding this man, is that dating is just complicated. Men and women are extremely different creatures with different needs. I mean, how many sites do you see catering to the emotional perspective a man has on a relationship? Meanwhile you can find plenty of them catering to a man’s sexual needs. Honestly every man I’ve crossed paths with has been an EUM by the definitions on this site. Family and friends included. They are in their own worlds where they can justify their own rules and as a woman you are usually considered to be in the wrong because ultimately we feel the need for companionship moreso than they do. They’re fine without the mental stimulation we desire, and can always replace us physically. Dating seems to be a game in which you study male behavior and try to lasso one in, hoping to find one as compatible with you as you can. I’ve been my happiest when single and carefree, but of course the downside is lonliness. It is becoming clear to me that there are really two options: you either stress yourself while playing the dating game, or accept being happily single for the rest of your life.
RulesGirl2theEnd. January 29th, 2009, 6:02 pm
Ashley- without sounding harsh, errr why you acting that the two of you are exclusive, when you’ve only just met him. One he seems a very needy person, in that he’s saying this stuff for you to validate his ego, and Im sorry but your being as needy as he is. phoning him, txting him it really sounds that this relationship, on both sides is extremley unhealthy from the get go. Why are you not dating other men, I dont mean falling in love and bed! just having a life. Youre throwing everything into a relationship that is only 3 WEES old. Sorry that does not constitute a relationship. He may be telling the truth about what he’s doing, men are solitary creatures, they do not have gaggles of friends to go shopping with. Sorry but if I was a guy, I’d be backing off from you at a million miles an hour. The thing is he may be an EUM, sounds a bit iffy, but even if he was’nt your behaviour would drive him away. Stop txting/phoning, really honey get a life. If he dont ring you say by Mon eve, at a reasonable time call it quits. If you’ve slept with him this quickly I can assure you this ‘reltionship’ is dead in the water, its a fact, believe it. Harsh words, but Im sorry honey the truth.
Gaynor January 29th, 2009, 6:16 pm
Regarding your final comment, dating does not have to stressful if you’re with the appropriate man.
Ashley, remember, you came on here b/c you recognized some big red flags very early on, if this guy is not doing his best to court you what makes you think it’s going to get better later on? I would say it will only get worse as he will manage down your expectations.
In your initial post you stated your concern as to how your needs were not being met but when we responded with info that indicated he is an EUM you backed off of your initial concerns.
Lastly, my ex-EUM talked and me till we fell asleep. he would hold me all night, and there were many occasions that he also watched as I slept. Don’t put any weight into this, it means nothing. There are many so similarities between my ex and your current it is frightening, the only exception was that he was not a loner.
RulesGirl2theEnd. January 29th, 2009, 6:38 pm
Ashley- what you have to remember, is should not have the option to choose, its us that choose, they say crap like this to get you to give it up. The game is done in that instant. Most men are unavailble to some point, dating should not be a trail, but good fun, and with lots going on and a few in the process along with your own friends, interests and work, this then should make him dying to pin you down. This thinking is totally outta whack with the whole dating process, Dont love to much to soon.
Astelle January 30th, 2009, 4:03 am
Ashley, may I ask you: who initiates your get togethers and phone calls? I don’t care if you have known him for 4 weeks or 4 months, if you are most of the time the one that initiates everything, then don’t go further with him. Did you meet him online?
He sounds lazy, does his own stuff and but is excited when you ask to see him? His life is sooo important to him, his reading, cooking, cutting his nails or whatever else keeps him busy.
Sounds to me, when you “ask” him and he is not that busy at the moment, he welcomes you. I think he “wants” a woman, but not 24/7 and not with all the “hassles” that go with courting a woman, because he is fine on his own.
I agree that dating is complicated, but you should date other men, don’t put too much hope in this dude.
Your gut is already telling you that something is not right with him and that is good, follow your gut, pull back, see what he does, don’t ever put more effort in than he does. I am talking big now, I was in that position at one time where I was making the efforts, but I have learned - if he makes no effort then I don’t care what is “wrong” with him and I am not making excuses anymore for him or me.
Set your boundaries, do what is good for you and please bow out early enough, don’t let him suck you in to this “relationship”, make it about YOU, not him.
You are right, everybody’s situation on here is unique, but blowing hot and cold is NOT unique, believe it.
I very much believe that he has just one woman at a time, he is too lazy to juggle more than one woman, look at his past. He had one girlfriend, she dumped him and he is still (sounds like it to me) heartbroken over her after 6 years?
He is “right”, he is not misleading you, he is not doing anything except accepting your efforts towards this relationship.
Isn’t he saying “take it or leave it?” I wish you would go with the latter.
You know, a friend of mine told me once: A man will move mountains if he wants to be with you. Not sure if I totally agrre with that statement, but if a man is not moving anything for me but accepts my attention, time to go.
Again, how did you meet this prince?
You came to the right place, this is a wonderful website.
Cynnie January 30th, 2009, 7:22 pm
Ashley
Your man sounds very familiar. Could it be because I dated that type and I’m still paying the price? Run for the hills girl - he sounds EUM to me and quite twisted too.
You are actually quite lucky that this behavior is surfacing now so that you can bail out immediately and minimise your hurt. Don’t be like me and doubt yourself, think he’s shy, unable to express himself or think that you are being unreasonable. This man appears to have issues that aren’t yours to fix and you should be on your merry way.
I wasted almost a year of my life with a further 6 months trying to fully and finally extricate myself from the clown I was dating. Others on this site have done 2 years plus. Save yourself, your time and your sanity.
I do agree with you that your partner should show interest in seeing you and contacting you. If he’s doing this rubbish now, you can bet your last dollar that it will be the same later - and worse. He seems very lazy to me.
Should you choose to “make a go of this relationship”, be prepared for some or all of the following, based on experience and reading comments on this site:
* Feeling lonely even though you’re in a relationship
* Walking on eggshells because you might upset him
* Being told that you’re crazy, obsessive, a drama queen or his “word of the day” because you want to know where the relationship is going or you have a need to be filled
* Doubting yourself because he won’t commit to the relationship & wondering what’s wrong with you
*Doing all of the work in the relationship, because he only has one foot in.
* Waiting for the other shoe to drop. You never know what mood he’ll be in.
* Being dead last on his list of priorities - if you make the list.
Other readers can share with you their frustrations of being with these types of men and the heartbreak of leaving the doomed relationship though it’s the smart thing to do.
But most importantly, start as you intend to finish. So if you’re cool with being ignored, stood up and not having him be a meaningful part of your life, then proceed, “cause that’s how he has started out.
But if you truly want a loving and committed relatioship, I’d suggest that you bail. NOW.
Ashley February 7th, 2009, 1:12 am
The difference a week can make…
Well, while it’s natural to discount bad news when you hear it, the advice I received from this site and those close to me was too much to ignore. I briefly allowed Mr. Man (and yes I met him online) to convince me that I was viewing things from the wrong perspective, and to be patient. So I stepped back and decided to observe a bit. I stopped reaching out to him as much and made my own plans if he didn’t seize the opportunity to spend time with me. He continued to follow suit with his conflicting signals…told me he missed me and he felt more complete with me in his presence, but his actions showed that he was not enthusiastic to make future plans to spend time with me, answer my calls in a timely manner or commit to any titles anytime soon. Even in his attempts to appease me after my expressing that we are looking for different things in life (and his swearing that I had it all wrong), he was lazy. His efforts amounted to a substance-lacking daily text and phonecall (perhaps at 10 or 11 rather than midnight), a sunday of tv watching and take-out, and being squeezed in his schedule one evening sometime between the gym and bedtime. His behavior and overall demeanor was weird, at best. And what I realized is, whether I’ve got things right according to him or not, that was not what I wanted. Something felt wrong to me, and therefore was wrong. His dysfunction quickly surpassed his good looks and became a complete turn-off. Not to mention that I’d already begun to feel the affects many ladies on this site expressed feeling with an EUM (feeling unworthy, belittled for my views and desires, walking on eggshells, constantly analyzing where things were going)…the fact that it even occupied my time in trying to decipher it all frustrates me. I’m disappointed in myself for not being stronger than that! Although I tend to be the one who has to be burned to know that the fire is hot, I decided to save myself the agony this time around and call it quits early-on.
Karen February 7th, 2009, 2:55 am
Good for you Ashley!!!
Carm February 7th, 2009, 3:13 am
Ashley, I am glad to hear you were able to step back and observe this guy and see him for who he is.
NML February 7th, 2009, 9:15 pm
Hi Everyone. Due to a technical fault with the previous service which notifies you by email when I publish a new post, I have had to move to a new provider. The error means you will now need to sign up to the Feedblitz service if you want to start receiving emails again. Apologies for any inconvenience caused. Thanks Natalie/NML
Anabelle February 9th, 2009, 3:30 pm
Add to that:
Make a note of the times and days when he visits, calls or texts you.
I had a girlfriend who came to my house in floods of tears last year after she had been romantically involved with a guy who claimed he worked nights.
He sent texts, called, visited and emailed weekdays but she never heard or saw him on nights or weekends.
A mutual friend knew him and told her that he didn’t work nights, but he was picking his kids up from school. The (insert your own opinion here on him!) was married and had his kids till his wife arrived home from work.
So, it’s always helpful to make a note of *when* too and perhaps request he calls outside of those times just to see if he can…
Love,
Anabelle
x
Anabelle’s last blog post..Relationship Compatibility By Names
prianna February 22nd, 2009, 1:16 am
My relationship is similar to all the above, my greatest regret is that I didnt get out when I saw all the signs, but I fancied myself in love with the guy I met at first and now I am paying for it bitterly. I am to the point where I feel like I am going out of my mind. My main aim in life has become pleasing him and keeping him happy so that he would walk away but all I do it is still not working. He plays my emotions well. I hate myself for falling into this trap and feel really bad about myself. I am to the point where I am thinking of seeing a phys. My advice is when you see the first warming run like hell is behind you.
Gaynor February 22nd, 2009, 2:15 am
Prianna,
You know what you’re involved in, why don’t you get out?
prianna February 22nd, 2009, 3:43 pm
I guess I am afraid of being alone and starting over again with someone else but I have recently been holding back and I am going to try the no contact for this week, these are baby steps but they will build me.
Tesora February 24th, 2009, 5:46 pm
WOW!! After reading this, it all makes sense about the man I had loved for 2.5 years. I now better understand the behavioral patterns, and have realized where I went wrong. Unfortunately, I saw his potential, and knew that deep down, my guy was sad, lost, and lonely. Sometimes, I felt that maybe I was reading too much into his behavior (because I tend to overanalyze things) plus being blinded by love. However, now that we have been in NC for 4 months (despite me trying two months into our NC phase to reach out to him to let him know that we can be cool with each other - dumb, I know! - because I figured enough time had passed since our blowout…), I am able to reflect objectively on this situation. Sure, I had my flaws and faults which contributed to the relationship, but I guess I held on to the hope that as time passed, he would mature and see me for me. Ahhh!! I was living in a fantasy world, I guess. It is really helpful to read these posts and know that it was likely more him than me (as I spent much time wallowing in self-doubt about why this relationship failed, thinking I was not all he was looking for….which is nonsense!). Ladies, the best info I took away from this situation is this: If a man cannot express himself (thru action or words), then RUN!!! RUN far, far away from him! He will drop you like a hotcake and move on to a girl he KNOWS he can manipulate and swindle! Good luck to you all!!
Gaynor February 24th, 2009, 5:56 pm
Prianna,
Ask yourself if you’re afraid of being happy and winning your self-esteem back?
We don’t need others to make us happy, we have to do that on our own! Prianna, what do you get from this ‘relationship?’
Tesora February 24th, 2009, 6:50 pm
Prianna,
I understand totally where you are coming from. We all do. It will hurt, but you know, what others say is true. Think about how going through the grieving process is relatively brief compared to feleing like you are running in quick sand around this man for years. Men like these have attachment issues, I’d bet that if you knew his family’s history or even his personal story, you could pinpoint factors that made him this way. Keep in mind that it is not you - it is him…he has a warped way of relating to others. And do not fear starting over with someone, when you meet the right person, it will be quick and you will never have the self-doubts or anxieties about why he is acting so oddly. This is what I have learned in just 4 months. You can, too, if you just let yourself grieve and give yourself time away from him. It will be difficult but do things - like workout, take a class, make sure you hang out with friends and family often so as to now be alone and really wallow. Keep your head up! You will ge thru it!
prianna February 25th, 2009, 1:24 am
Thanks guys I am now on day 3 of NC and he doesn’t even seem bothered. But I know I will overcome this. All I get out of this relationship is confusion and stress. Started hanging out with my family and I am going back to school to do my masters. I know that this is very unhealthy for me but I am taking one step at a time. Thnks again.
Tesora February 25th, 2009, 5:44 am
Hi again, Prianna!
Good for you! I, too, am finishing up my advanced degree. I am also doing things that I never did before, like taking a dance class and meditating. However, he still is on my mind a lot and even appears in my dreams still. But I have gotten used to not talking to him. I go up and down, and it is to be expected, but I feel that he has done me a favor by leaving me be, even if he “doesn’t care” anymore or has moved on to some chic. Eventually, you will get to that point of feeling better - time really does ease the stress/pain, as you know. Best of luck in school! And again, chin up, 2 u and all the ladies on here!
Lynn March 7th, 2009, 11:36 pm
To all the Girls..
Thank you truly, i didn’t know what to think from this man i was seeing for 6 weeks, but it was all to clear reading this today, and gave me the strength i needed to end it before the hurt was increased…I thank you because i really had seen what you girls had gone through and it was all to familiar with this man…
Thank you!!!
glad i was able to finish things before they got out of hand.
donna March 9th, 2009, 7:51 pm
am such a fool tko be with him.
Anne March 10th, 2009, 4:34 pm
OMG! I never knew all this! Never even heard of the term “emotionally unavailable”. I always had the good guys and could never understand my friends who dated these morons. But at 35 I fell for one myself. Found a perfect profile on a datingsite and off I went..
And now I have just been sitting solemnly alone on my couch for the last few weeks, obsessively checking my email, his facebook, checking how often he logs in on his online datingprofile with only one question in my head: Why? WHY?
Why did we have this amazing chemistry? Why did he almost immediately started talking about marriage, the one woman who would change his life, children he wanted so badly, leading me to think I could be that woman. Why did he at the same time not have a dollup of interest in the things I do, didn´t call when he said he would, standing me up, playing with his Iphone while I was talking to him, kept logging onto the datingsite I found him on. Why did he outright say to me he didn´t trust me getting my career back on track? Etc. etc. Making me feel constantly that I didn´t match up to his checklist for the perfect woman.
Then after I had the insight to break it off he started texting (of course not calling!) me exessently, telling me he missed me, that he had been afraid, that he felt lik we belonged etc.
So I believed him and caved, spent a day and a night with him, kissed him goodbye to meet up the next day.
He never showed, never called, send me a lame email 3 days later that he didn´t see himself building his so much wanted family with me. In other words, I wasn´t good enough for him and that apearantly excused him from any civil behaviour towards me. He never apoligized for standing me up.
After reading here I no longer ask why he behaved this way and if there is still a chance for us. Now I just wonder why I attracted him in the first place and how to prevend meeting anyone like him in the future. A much healthier approach! Thanks!
Gaynor March 10th, 2009, 5:04 pm
Anne,
One indication he is an EUM is when he moves too quickly into a relationship. It is not normal for someone to be making proclamations of love so quickly, normal love grows over time. This also happened to me-thought it was strange and scary but I let it pass-and as I look back now I should have ran.
If this fool tries to make contact-he probably will when he needs his ego boost or sex-know that nothing will change and it will only continue to erode what self-esteem you have left.
Stay strong!!!!
Gaynor March 10th, 2009, 5:33 pm
Hi NML,
After reading Anne’s post, I was wondering if these guys actually believe themselves to be in love in the beginning, or is it all a con for sex and an ego stroke? I had read (other sites) in the earlier days that these men truly want a relationship but due to their ‘issues’ are emotionally incapable of letting anyone in.
Thanks
Astelle March 10th, 2009, 6:50 pm
Gaynor, they are not capable to have a relationship but they keep on “trying” with the same results. After all, isn’t this what a man is suppose to do?
A friend of mine told me once: Astelle, it doesn’t matter if a horse kicks you by accident or intentionally, it hurts the same.
Gaynor March 10th, 2009, 7:10 pm
Astelle,
Thanks. I got a little chuckle after reading your answer.
I will interpret your answer to mean that they believe themselves to be in love, so I guess they’re actually conning themselves as well.
Anne March 10th, 2009, 7:28 pm
Astelle, LOL at your horse comment! I think my EUM just has this picture perfect image of a future harmonious family in his head which he truly believes will make his whole life completed. But it al depends on the perfect wife of course…
I think he never even saw me (which is the painful bit that makes you want to jump up and down and scream “see me” “here I am”). He only saw this mental image of his imaginitive wife. And I didn´t fit. And then he got doubts, went cold on me. Felt attraction, missed the warmth and went hot again and so on. I don´t think it was bad intent, I just think he is really messed up and doesn´t want to see it himself (cause I did point his out to him).
Well, not at the expense of me anymore. Did I mention he has major mother issues?
Astelle March 10th, 2009, 7:42 pm
Gaynor,I am not sure about the” love” thing, I can just go by what my frog did. He can keep up a façade for just a while and then Mr. Nasty, Hateful, Alcoholic, the real messed up him comes to the surface.
Anne, be “careful” with online dating, you will probaby find a lot of these types online.
Mother issues? What kind?
Anne March 10th, 2009, 7:54 pm
He comes from a broken home, mother left them, swore himself to have a better wife then that and a stable family. He told me all this on the second date. Which in hindsight is perhaps not quite normal… Little red flag that I happily ignored because I was so thrilled to be the one to make it all better for him. Someone should have slapped me in the face…
Scottish Girl March 15th, 2009, 12:48 am
Am so, so pleased to have found this site! Have spent the last couple of hours reading all of the entries. There is oddles of invaluable advice & I now plan to make use of it in the next few days. I will share my EUM experience, once I’ve determined how to put it across.
victoria March 15th, 2009, 8:15 pm
Wow, what a great site. happy to have found it and to read every ones insightful and helpful entries. Feels like support just reading them. I had befriended a man who moved into my building who was going through a divorce. He had been faithfully married for almost 20 years. Found his wife in romantic chat rooms and asked her to stop. According to him she wouldn’t and would also not go into counseling to save there marriage. He hooked up with some one else before he left the house and moved in with her for a month before moving into my building. We became closer and closer friends and I was always a support person to him while he was going through his greiving. I did not at the time think of this as rescuing behavior as I was only thinking of him as a friend at that time. In October of this year he told me he did not feel close to his girl friend, felt shut down a round her and did not feel connected to her and that they almost never had sex which I guess was a big issue in his marriage. He would tell me how he felt way more connected to me. We still were only neighbors and friends at this time. He was always crying that he didn’t know what to do. I would tell him he would eventually. He broke it off with her before Christmas, and even thought it was him who broke it off felt totally abandoned and grief striken, Perhaps the divorce catching up?? He started flirting with me almost immediately and we went out as “friends” a few times, but he would mention wanting to date other women and have sex. Guess I could understand that after a 20 year sexless marriage. I became more atracted to him over the next couple of months and he still confided in me, sometimes about the girls he was trying to date and learning how to do that as he’d never dated before. Went from his Mom’s to his wifes. Anyway, we ended up liking each other more and more, and I kept hearing him say things like “his friends were all making bets on me” and his mother had this intuitive feeling about me when she saw my pick and he told me he talked to her about me all the time. And would say things like “he should just flush all these girls down the toilette that he doesn’t care about and be with me.” and “we should just throw in the towel and get married all ready”. We got together on valentines day, and kissed for 6 hours! then I started having panic attacks the next day!! Thinking it was my emotionally abusive child hood coming up. Well maybe, but it was alos all the red flags I did not want to see waiving at me. HELLO! within less then a week he called from upstairs saying he’d had a bad day. I went up to his place and found him writhing in pain-tears after having vomitted for hours over remorse and sadness regarding his ex-girlfriend. I realized I had been his confidant for a year and a half, but really I did not want to hear any more. He’d given me numerous signals that he was not over her, and now here I was being hit over the head with it. What the hell was I thinking. Well I suppose I was thinking it was the first guy I ever I was friends with (and for a year) before being dating or considering a romantic relationship with. he certainly didn’t look like my type. And we had alwys had honest communicatio. I was in a ball the next day. He’s also been asking me to come home with him to meet his mom for a weekend the next state over. I called and said I couldn’t go, that there was no time or space for that kind of intimacy between us rite now. He agreed said he was sorry, and that if I had gone home with him he would have “fallen rite into it”. He said he’d been talking with a friend and told them he would rather keep me as a friend then to have us both walk away crying. he at first called the nest week to leave a message that he was thinking of me all the time, then another time to ask me to get soup as he was sick and I had to say no. When I called a few days later to see if he was ok, he said he missed me and i said me too. Now it’s been REALLY REALLY hard for me as I am in the front apartment and he parks rite outside my window. Saw him get in his car with some women the other day. Passed him outside and said hello. He stopped by to tell me he got a part in a movie last week and I couldn’t eve fathom the distance that seemed to be between us. I am seriously considering breaking my lease but also feel I should deal with this. I am so sad and there is so much greif coming up from this that I am sure must be attached to all the other grief episodes of my life and childhood. I know this was incredibly long but I know no one has to actually read it so it’s ok. Any one who did take the time, if they could offer anything I would be much appreciative. Thanks so much.
Brokenhearted
prianna March 19th, 2009, 12:55 am
Hi Victoria,
This guy is just what his profession is an actor, I know I have my probs but this story is out of this world, he is just trying to sponge off of you emotionally. Just take one day at a time and do not break you lease. If you can, when you see him be your happiest and smile even if you go in your room and cry after. Do not give him the benefit of knowing that he has such a bad effect on you and most of all girlfriend, keep strong and pray daily and ask the Lord for some insight and clarity. I know that you will make it. Just take tiny steps.
Gaynor March 19th, 2009, 2:19 am
Victoria,
Sounds like a lot of drama. This guy is an emotional user and sounds incapable of being on his own. I was wondering if everything was always about him?
As Prianna said, “do not break your lease” its not worth the expense, and I’m sure you’ll be able to move beyond this clown in no time.
I hope that you are not going to make yourself available for ‘counseling services’ any longer b/c this guy is a complete waste of time.
Gaynor March 19th, 2009, 3:39 am
Victoria,
You have to wonder why no one wants to sleep with him, maybe he’s lousy in bed.
ts March 19th, 2009, 4:30 am
Victoria,
I am sorry you are having to bother with this guy on this level. He reeled you in as his “friend” (although, it sounds rather one sided to me, his side), then tried for the next level, only to back off, in actually very weak and pathetic ways. This is probably a classic example of managing down expectations that NML has written about.
One thing I heard was that, he was keeping you intrigued by suggesting that he was into you by telling you how much “other people” thought you were so good for him.(Including playing the mother card, jeeezzzz). No where in there did I hear you say that he himself actually declared feelings or some kind of commitment to your situation. He was telling you what you wanted to hear by proxy. Using others words and thoughts (if those were even truly real) to give you the impression that somehow he himself had actually expressed them. Believe me, I have been through that, if you would bring it up later, he could deny ever expressing such things, because, in reality, he hadn’t. Strange indeed.
I think it is great that you seem to have caught this before you got in too deep. My suggestion about the window view would be to keep the blinds down or the curtains drawn. Don’t look there anymore, he is probably aware that you can see his car and who he is getting into it with and gets a kick or some kind of sick pleasure out of it. Just close that channel down.
Keep strong Victoria, you sound like you have a handle on this, don’t let him manipulate you into his web any longer. ts.
victoria March 20th, 2009, 12:24 am
Dear Gaynor, Prianna, and TS. Thanks you soooooooooooooo much for your replies. SOOOOOOOO helpful to feel support. Thank you ladies. I still feel like shit on and off but am dealing the best I can. I think you are rite about the proxy stuff and while I was swimming tonight I thought I wonder why I never called him on it and said ” well what are you betting on?” he had told me he loved me about 5 times between valentines and his nervous breakdown over the ex, but still within that was ” you couldn’t have picked a worse time” and “you picked the worst possible person to like”, and “this has nothing to do with not being into you, the timing just sucks!” I guess I was thinking that after being better and better friends after over a year, that he kinda new me and me him. We always had fun together and he once said when he thought of his perfect woman, I fit the T exactly. He really is naive and has not had enough experience (yet) to be a player (who knows, maybe he’s on his way
He told me his wife was 300 pounds and didn’t feel good about herself and that was why they didn’t have much sex. Then after a month with the g.f., “her issues” came up and she didn’t want to either. So maybe that’s his thing and he will unconsciously go find someone else to not satisfy him.
I ran into him the other day in the hallway Prianna, and came across confident and centered. Had a few words and that was it. By the way, he’s not an actor, he’s a courrier. Got lucky and was approached by the director.
I am also not breaking my lease at this time. I also will not be available for counseling services any longer! Maybe I never should have. Thought I was being compassionate at the time. maybe you are rite and I should keep the blinds down. he also took to sitting under the tree that is 10 feet in front of my window! it’s a small patch of grass in the front of the building, not a yard!
I must say though, this has brought up this incredible amount of sadness and longing in me…probably old issues that I really thought I had so moved on from. I am doing “the presence process” by Michael Brown. Don’t know if you ladies ever heard of it…to release old fears, greif and anger.
I have been crying every day. I have only lived in this city for 3 years and he was one of the people who was consistent in my life.
Thanks so much ladies for taking the time to read my story and respond. means a lot to me. You guys sound like strong women.
Victoria
Gaynor March 20th, 2009, 1:25 am
Victoria,
I am so sorry you were taken advantage of the way you were, I didn’t realize to what level he had taken it.
It is so hurtful when you believe them to be your friends-most especially in your case-and they betray you so. My friend/ex also did the I love you thing but when there came a point when he realized that I fell for him, he bailed. He also has ex issues-but won’t return to her-and did the whole “if it were a different time” and my personal favorite “we spend all the holidays together b/c of the kids,” the kids are adults in college and they had been divorced for four-years. So stupid!!! I can laugh now and so will you!
Stay away from this guy, he has so many issues and nothing to offer but endless drama, confusion, lies and betrayal.
Stay strong!
victoria March 20th, 2009, 3:22 am
Hi Gaynor,
Thank you again for your support. I will stay away from him. I am sorry that you had to deal with your ex’s holiday crap! That sounds like it must have been very painful to deal with. I am glad that you can laugh about it now. I am looking forward to the day that I laugh about this and say “What the hell was I thinking!”!
Thanks for your support Gaynor.
Victoria
victoria March 22nd, 2009, 7:57 pm
Hi Ladies,
I was reading some articles on this site last night when knock knock knock on the door. It was him from upstairs. Came down cause he wanted to invite me to the fund raiser for the movie he is going to be in. There filming it in April in the bar where the part is. Apparently he was there the night before with the movie crew and told me how the director introduced him to everyone as the star of the movie and how that felt so weird for him and all the attention. He said he really wanted me to come and twice said how much it would mean to him. I lied and said I was having dinner with a friend and didn’t know what we would be doing later. I regretted it after he left because I am giving him the message that I would do it but just had other plans. He looked so happy about the whole thing that a part of me did not want to rain on his parade. I need to tell him the truth. “I can’t be your friend”. And I really don’t see how he can be mine????? How could this feel good to him??? I mean I don’t know if he is seeing anyone, but he did not ask me to go with him, rather telling me and “feel free to bring your friends” and that he would be doing his henna art and I could get henna’s. I am thinking in my head as he is standing there talking and we, I should say ME is being all nicey nice, saying how good I am doing and blah blah blah. I think it is hard for me to LET GO. Still not wanting it to be nothing. But what am I letting go of….It already is nothing……. Been sad and grieving still. Doing a process not that is bringing up lost of old fear, anger and grief. For me it is the grief and fear. I have not felt this much grief since my mother died 20 years ago. It shocks me that I could have so much sadness in me. Thanks for listening ladies.
Gaynor March 22nd, 2009, 10:08 pm
Victoria,,
Remember with him, it’s me, me, me. It’s time to see him for who he really is.
Let it go, he has nothing to offer anyone! He is user and only offers drama and misery. If you have any doubts reread your other posts.
Glad you didn’t go.
feelishfoolish March 24th, 2009, 7:14 am
I cannot believe this site! I wish I’d found it 18 months ago when I was swept off my feet and left my husband!
Classic EUM, textbook stuff….I have believed that if I kept waiting, eventually he would see that I WAS the love of his life as he kept saying I was in the beginning…together forever, helped him get over his wife…OMG!!! I have just had the worst 6 months of my life when he left me, quite suddenly but had been treating me so badly for most of it. WHY DID I PUT UP WITH IT???!!?? Because my self esteem was so low, that I thought I deserved it.
Well, newsflash ladies…we ALL deserve much better than these creeps give us. Kick them to the kerb and harness the strength of being in control of your own life and destiny in getting better. And don’t be so desperate to look for Mr Right….he will find YOU!!
knowledge is power…how very true!
Popps April 1st, 2009, 3:45 pm
I have just broken contact with my very own EUM. What an idiot. We met at work, he made contact when I left there. I was married, he had a girlfriend. We went for drinks ‘as friends’, and very quickly he made a move. We have seen each other several times since, and the sex was mind-blowing. I have broken up with my husband since (unrelated to him but he was a catalyst - made me realise how unhappy I was to ‘go elsewhere’) He took me away for 3 days to the countryside (while his gf was on holiday!!), we did very couply, romantic things together, had amazing sex, really got on well. Over the past 4 months all I have heard is how much he doesn’t get on with his girlfriend but he can’t dump her because he ‘doesn’t want to hurt her’, etc. And I just let this happen!! He tells me not to wait for him and to go out on the pull, but then on the other hand tells he how much he likes me, takes me to amazing restaurants, etc. MIXED SIGNALS!! He also calls / texts very late at night when drunk - classic EUM. So the crunch came when I met someone new, and I told him I went out for a date. He immediately told me he was being set up with someone on a blind date by his friends. That was the final straw, I sent him a long email saying how unfair it was of him to treat me like this, I could live with the girlfriend but not other women on the side as well! And he replied with some sarcastic email that basically tells me nothing - EUMs are very good at avoiding questions and issues!! I have broken contact, and now only refer to him as Sleazebag-Smallcock-Badjeans-Shortarse. And I feel so much stronger for it. Early days I know but I can’t believe I fell for him and his sleazy lines about how gorgeous he thinks I am etc. It was a load of rubbish to get sex from me and that’s all. He can go get it elsewhere!!
Gaynor April 1st, 2009, 5:24 pm
Popps,
You “could live with the girlfriend but not the other woman?” I don’t get it what’s the difference, he’s still with someone else. Is it acceptable if they only have one other woman in their lives????????
Hon, you allowed him to treat you like this and no one else.
mariposa April 1st, 2009, 6:10 pm
Do you guys think workaholic might be a sign too? xEUM is a big workaholic that is the main reason we broke up. He never had time for me. He was always working 12 hour days and on the weekends too. Do you think working so much might be used as an excuse to avoid intimacy.
Brad K. April 2nd, 2009, 12:41 am
@ mariposa, I don’t think it matters if a workaholic is EUM or not.
What does matter, is that like the married guy, he isn’t available. His focus and dedication are already fully committed - to his work. This might be a reasoned choice - he might be horribly undisciplined and needy, and packed with fears.
And it doesn’t matter. He is not ready to make the life changes that entering a relationship would mean. He is not there for you.
That was a good call in leaving him. Now is the time to figure out how to pick someone interested, respectful, and flexible enough to consider a long term relationship.
@ popps,
So .. the girfriend is OK .. Just curious, how many women do you think it is OK to sleep with, one step removed? How much STD exposure to you wish to leave to your partner’s partners, and their partners, too?
Like gaynor, I fail to see the difference between dating two women and dating four or ten. You are either monogamous, or not. Like saying the light bulb is a little bit burnt out, He is either loyal to you, or he is not. There are no shades of grey.
In the future, never wait for a guy to leave a gf or wife. If he will leave her, he will leave you. And, as he demonstrates, he won’t wait until he leaves to find a new snuggle bunny.
Luck,
Brad K.’s last blog post..From lending money to protecting your heart
Popps April 2nd, 2009, 11:27 am
I could live wiht him having a girlfriend because a stupid part of me felt that the only reason he wasn’t with me was because he was with her. Then finding out he’s actually still on the lookout for something else as well as me hurt like hell. So that’s why. Not saying it’s right.
Brad K. April 2nd, 2009, 2:23 pm
@ Popps,
“right” or “wrong” isn’t the part that bothers me. “hurtful” and “causes popps injury”, that is the part that bothers me.
Brad K.’s last blog post..trlt: Springtime and rediscovering fun
Gaynor April 2nd, 2009, 3:09 pm
Popps,
So let’s see, he trying to prevent any pain to this woman but he’s sleeping around on her, this doesn’t make sense.
I thought it was funny how you were OK when he was ‘only’ sleeping with you but when it became clear that there more women in the picture he became a “sleaze-bag.” Why would you think this man could be honorable if you’re entering the relationship based on lies???? I think it would hurt the girlfriend more to know that her man is screwing around than ending the relationship. Don’t you??
Brad K. April 3rd, 2009, 5:28 am
Gaynor, gently with popps, please. She seems to be in deep denial. I don’t mean that disparagingly, please.
Because until we are ready to hear something - we won’t. To every thing there is a time, and a season, under heaven.
Brad K.’s last blog post..trlt: Springtime and rediscovering fun
Rosie April 29th, 2009, 10:32 am
What a wonderful resource this site is! I met a man online and dated him for just over a month. I had been single for a long time and I admit that I was lonely. So I was naturally bowled over by his constant attention, lavish words and persistent chase. Unfortunately I soon realised that he was obsessed with his ex, I was over-giving, and he wasn’t interested in learning anything about me except for surface details he could use to flatter me with. He left after sleeping with me each time, and I’m ashamed to say that I put up with it five times, until I could no longer deny that sex with him was a horrible empty experience, and the worst sex of my life. I felt more loved using my hand by myself - and that’s the truth. He would barely touch me while he pumped away, would only ever kiss with pursed lips, and in hindsight all I really wanted was to be held. There were also signs that he was contemptuous of me for not being his ex - it turns out she and I were like night and day in lifestyle and appearance. Anyway, to cut a long story short, as soon as I listened to my gut that I’d been trying to drown out with visions of a wonderful man and a future, I told him I no longer wanted to see him, ignored his attempts to wheedle his way back in, and blocked all contact with him. I have since realised that I was repeating a relationship from nearly a decade ago, my first ‘love’, who was very emotionally unavailable (and constantly ashamed of me for superficial reasons.) He even looked like him and had the same lifestyle. I spent four years with my ex but only one month with this Assclown. I think that’s progress - but my grief has been disproportionate to being used for a month, so I think I might be grieving for the past too, as I ran away instead of processing the experience. I’m now trying to be more aware of the signs and making a conscious effort not to repeat history. I have read the excellent eBook and really, really hope that I can be as strong as I’m required to be. (I must, however, thank my lucky stars for giving me the strength to end it after one month not six or twelve as my old habit would have been.)
Allie April 30th, 2009, 2:04 am
I can’t tell you how relieved I was when I found this site. I thought I was losing my mind. I honestly thought everything wrong in our relationship was my fault. I was too emotional, too needy, too this, too that. I gave and gave and got nothing in return except attitude from him. Everything I have felt in the past year or thought about him can be found in this article. My thoughts and feelings could have written it. Thank you.
Trvlnlite516 April 30th, 2009, 2:30 pm
I am so extremely happy that I found this site. Not by chance. It was referenced on EAS website I belong to. Yeah, the bonehead I was dating was a mm and I was a fool to think he cared about me. He only cared about himself and it took me 2 years to wake up to that painful fact. What a fool I am and a huge loser he is. I feel so much better to have picked up my life and am now moving on to peace and happiness. I like this site very much and will visit frequently.
Rachel April 30th, 2009, 9:48 pm
Wow, I found this list yesterday and my jaw dropped. Now, I haven’t had a lot of relationships in my life, but I’m amazed I didn’t see the signs with my ex long before we ever dated. He is a classic EUM. He’s a great friend though, mostly! I was 99% over him but when I read this list I’m now 200% over him. I know I’m naive in general sometimes, but never again about these guys. He’s a fun playmate though, gotta give him that. Thank you for this site, it helped me more than I can explain, and will help me attract different, emotionally Available men in the future when I’m ready to start looking again.
Sarah May 1st, 2009, 2:51 pm
Wow, welcome to my life!!
I met a man at work, (newly divorced), he was so sweet and persued me to the 10th degree! We went on sweet dates, closed down pubs and restaurants. He sent me the sweetest text messages you’ve ever heard. Well that first YEAR of the relationship started out well, but turned into a massiave push and pull, hot and cold. I fell very hard for this man, and he had almost no regard for my feelings. I’d go 2 weeks without hearing from him. I saw a picture on facebook of a girl from the office (who he was apparently just friends with) with him at a wedding! I went to a wedding ALONE that year. I was nearly suicidal that year as I was so depressed that I could fall for someone who couldn’t care less about my feelings. At the end of the first year, we officially became a couple, because I stopped working at the company. I met ALL his friends (this is a year after that and he’s barely met any of my friends, and the ones he has, it was in passing). We haven’t met each other’s families. He still has hot and cold tendencies, we see each other from friday night to Sunday (and he STILL asks me “what are your plans?” and I have to say “you”). He’s very busy with work so we’ll go 10day to 2 weeks REGULARLY without seeing each other, as he has to travel a lot (not a cheating excuse, legitimate travel). But do you think he’ll call me while he’s away? Do you think he’ll text me goodmorning or goodnight? Sometimes I just want to say to him “you know what? I’m getting NOTHING out of this relationship at all, if it wasn’t for me, we wouldn’t see each other, or talk to each other, EVER. You get EVERYTHING out of this relationship. I’m there for you when you need me, I’m caring, I give you your space, I don’t nag, I look the other way when you cancel plans last minute due to a business dinner and leave me with no plans on a friday night, I come to you ALWAYS, what’s in it FOR ME?! Misery?!” But there’s another side of me that is so unbelievably scared that he’ll walk, because I do love him, he’s not a bad person, he just won’t open himself up at all, won’t make himself available. This is 2years in (although just one year for him, we’re still “new”…the first year didn’t count to him…as we weren’t exclusive, nice huh?).
All my friends want me to break it off, but I can’t bring myself to. It’s a massive issue for me!
Brad K. May 2nd, 2009, 1:30 am
Sarah,
Falling in love is a bonding, and attachment that grows towards people, pets, and other things we cherish.
Choosing a companion, though, has to take into account whether we are ready to adapt our needs to our prospective partner - and whether that partner is available, is trainable (will respond appropriately when change is needed), is likely to be a useful addition to our economic and social lives, and is a good person. Restricting our choices to “good” - honorable, honest, respectful, disciplined, nurturing - people helps us to grow to be better people. If we hang with drunks and liars..
Many times we skip the second part, of evaluating whether this person we are drawn to will be good for us, will enhance our lives - and is ready and willing to be a partner. Like many things, just saying the words doesn’t make it so for us, and hearing the words doesn’t make it so, either. It takes time and effort to be sure we have separated the sex adventurers from the mate-prospects.
NML has written a lot about the Fallback Girls and the EUM’s that assure drama and turmoil in their lives. Many of the posts deal with this topic, and her ebook Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl does a good job of explaining what happens and how to stop being a Fallback Girl - and find someone likely to be a good partner.
Luck in finding answers and a happier way to live.
Brad K.’s last blog post..Mate finances
aphrogirl May 2nd, 2009, 4:09 am
Hmmmmm
Brad, this is excellent and sound advice when considering anyone we are thinking of getting to know, not just partners.
Thank you.
Puzzled May 3rd, 2009, 2:22 am
Is it usual for an emotionally unavailable man to try to turn you into his ex? And seem to resent you for not being his ex? A recent dating experience was like this - they had been broken up for nearly a year, but he was not over her, so I dumped his azz. I’m flummoxed as to why someone would try to turn someone else into their ex because I’ve never tried to do that. He seemed to dislike me for not being her - but this doesn’t make sense to me? Was it his self-hate he was taking out on me? Or his resentment that he wasn’t with her? He said he “had to let go of her” but I now suspect that she dumped him.
TJ May 4th, 2009, 6:30 pm
Great article and comments. I was “involved” with a EUM trying to form a simple platonic friendship. He was keen to be friends, and came on strong, sharing deeply personal things with me– going from casual acquaintance to extremely personal within days. As soon as I felt we were “getting close” he dropped from my life without a word and refused to respond to me.
He never explained what happened when he returned 2 months later. His mixed signals were almost comical– obviously making a play to be physically close to me, yet ignoring me once he was next to me. When I questioned him, he got angry at me, and blamed me for “expecting” any kind of emotional “intimacy” with him, like that was such a unreasonable desire to expect between friends!
He’s now in a “relationship” with the 4th women in 9 months (5 if you count me and how close our “friendship” became). He becomes instant-couples with women, and it’s over within 90 days, when normal, healthy relationships would progress to a level of emotional intimacy.
Of course I blamed myself and wondered what I had done wrong. I now know it’s all about him. That said, I have gone through a fantastic recovery program and understand I had an addiction to the pain of EU people, and that I had a history of repeating the pattern of falling for an EUM and reliving the pain over and over.
Interestingly enough, I find myself completely turned off to these types now, which coincides with my many months of recovery. This man and men like him no longer hold any appeal. I see them as a sickness that I no longer want a part of. I have healed and recovered and they are nothing more than harmful “drugs”.
That EUM is still in my social circle but I have nothing to do with him. I might be childish, but I can’t even muster the desire to say hello to him. I think he’s rather surprised at my complete lack of interest– I suspect his latest hookup is little more than a pawn in the game of deceit he plays with himself and others. I think he assumed I’d be jealous, being forced to see him with his new “soul mate” but actually I’m relieved that I’m not her.
Like a developing science experiment, I observe him and see his falseness as he once again plays the role of “attentive boyfriend” with this new woman, and am glad I’m not as sick as they both are.
Popps May 6th, 2009, 1:50 am
Thanks for everyone’s ‘kind’ words when I was feeling at my lowest point. I have broken contact and haven’t seen my wonderful EUM for over 6 weeks. And won’t be ever again. Just thought I would update.
allie May 7th, 2009, 4:15 pm
What do you do when you have to deal with him? Mine owes me money and it is such a chore to get him to pay me every month. I have a right to ask for it but he calls me unreasonable when I ask over and over (just to let you know he has never paid on time and is still a month and a half behind). He turns everything around and makes me feel guilty for even asking in the first place.
truthhurts May 8th, 2009, 7:57 am
Hi Allie, there was an article about that. I think that issue was discussed here: http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/finance-romance-do-not-mix-aint-nothin-going-on-but-the-rent/
Allie May 8th, 2009, 10:14 am
Thanks Truthhurts. The article was so very true. At the time I loaned him the money we were getting along good and yes I did think it would make us closer. I even told him that. Hindsight is 20/20. I will never do that again, for anyone. We had it out yesterday big time and I did get another check. I will get my money and he knows it. I will pester him to death if I have to. Trust me when I say I can outlast him on that. After yesterday he can’t hurt me anymore or control the situation. I took back control of my life and feelings but at the same time I just feel so stupid for ever doing it in the first place. How do you get past that feeling is what I need to figure out now?
caz May 10th, 2009, 2:14 am
OMG an aspergers man!!!!!!..emotionally unavailable….simple…
Brad K. May 11th, 2009, 5:33 am
Puzzled,
I doubt if it is “usual” for an EUM to try to make a new date into whoever they think their ex was.
But I think we all carry baggage around with us. When we are young our parents define for us what an adult is and how they act. As we grow and spend more time with companions our age, our “filter”, our baggage, changes a bit - but the way our parents acted and communicated, the honor, respect, and nurturing we grew up with - those are really powerful definitions in our lives.
Many life experiences layer new information over our home lives - military, police, fire service, most occupations, long friendships, and marriages and long term relationships - we pick up new understandings and redefine how to get along, what other people enjoy or want from us, who we can trust, and even who to care fore and care about.
I imagine your bozo was pretty lost before his ex, and now doesn’t really know anything beyond what he learned with her. And since he is still wrapped up in that failed relationship, he isn’t ready ..
.. he isn’t ready to look at who he is with now. He is so distracted by the “What if ..” and “How could she ..?” questions that he doesn’t even notice - he doesn’t know what you want. He isn’t trying to make you over, or to return to his lost love, with you as a handy stand in - He isn’t ready to respect you for who you are. Whatever other issues this bozo may have don’t matter - he isn’t ready to be a “man” for any woman.
I imagine his communication skills and self-knowledge, his respect and honor are questionable - or why would he have left the previous relationship? Or picked a partner that wasn’t going to be there for the long term? He has stuff to tidy up before he will be ready to meet you as a potential partner, and be a partner for you or for anyone.
Don’t get hung up on details. You recognized that he wasn’t a useful partner, that instead he was likely to make both of you unhappy. While you wonder why he pulled such a stupid stunt, I doubt you will find an answer than a general “He didn’t know any better, and didn’t see what he was doing.” Because his issues are with his feelings for his ex - and his failure to accept responsibility for his role in the demise of the relationship, etc. - there is nothing you can do to make anything work with him. Time might help him, if he starts following a better direction than he has been - but that would mean a change in him. And if he changes - you won’t likely be the woman he then needs.
Bad timing. You were there, but he was not ..
Brad K.’s last blog post..Don’t love harder.
ohtobecherished May 14th, 2009, 1:56 pm
The older I get the less I think I’ll be loved. I’m not bagging men. I love men. But I’ve met so many men who want to use me, and the older I get, these seem to be the only types of men I meet, they come in so many incarnations so slip under my radar. I feel sad. This has been exasperated because I was used recently. And while I used to have confidence now I think that maybe I’m just not meant to be cherished like other girls are. I have been single for ages, live by myself, volunteer, and do all the stuff I’m “supposed” to (which I enjoy as well.) I look after my appearance. I’m in my early thirties and don’t know what to do. I’ve stopped online dating as I only met users and players. I don’t know what I’m asking. I just wonder if any other women feel the same.
truthhurts May 14th, 2009, 4:55 pm
Hi ohtobecherised, I feel the same way. I like to think that it is because all the good guys are taken but although it´s true that a lot of them are, I also think that it is our own insecurtity about getting older that is making us voulnerable to EUMs. And the fact that I don´t meet single men by the dozen as we do when we´re in college and going out a lot. With work and a settled group of friends I just don´t meet a lot of new people (men).
And online dating sites… that´s a playground for EUMs.
So what to do? I´ve been thinking about getting a hobby which will allow me to meet new people but haven´t been able to come up with anything yet.
cassie May 16th, 2009, 7:59 pm
Why is it so hard to let go of an EUM? I have a MBA. I’m a smart woman. I know I deserve better. I want better than this. So why do I find it so hard to let go? I did reject his advances the other night and he left without a problem, but I felt so guilty and hurt that I was willing to think about a FWB relationship. Every time I begin to think that he isn’t an EUM I just have to read the articles on this site and everything I’ve every felt and thought is here in black and white. So why can’t I let go?
Brad K. May 17th, 2009, 4:25 am
cassie,
You are right, you are smart, and skilled, and accomplished. What is left - is emotions.
And it is the emotions part that trips us up.
There are several issues working here. One is that you picked someone that is EUM. Another is that you stayed with one, and appear content to have continued. Then there is the issue of getting your act together, and getting your .. act .. out of harm’s way.
Picking an EUM might be a simple mistake - but more likely, you didn’t want someone that would actually be a part of your life, long term. You weren’t looking for a life-mate, a spouse. An EUM fills that role admirably. An EUM is also exciting (i.e., fraught with danger), and might be slick as can be at winning bed partners. A perpetual dater with advanced bed partner winning skills will be very quick to get to know, will feel comfortable immediately, you will feel you have known him forever -at the first meeting. These are all sterling qualities - for winning lots of bed partners.
There is nothing respectful, dependable, loyal, honest, honorable, or disciplined about winning lots of bed partners.
However you got hooked up with the EUM, you stayed with him. When he blew hot and cold, when he passed off his attacks and evasions - you bought it. Rather than recognize his manipulations and deceits and disrespect for what they were - you forgave his “mistakes”, or even believed that you were causing him turmoil. Uhh, we are all responsible for our own happiness, our own sadness, and our own mistakes. Only a bully will claim, “See what you made me do!”
In one sense you are ready to leave this sick puppy, because you recognize that there is no useful future any different that what you have today. You recognize that you have hurt yourself, trying to accommodate this bozo, and you are ready to heal those wounds and move on.
You have a lot of work to do, on emotions, on your needs, and on finding a way toward healing from where you are today. For some, No Contact is a necessary step, to put a barrier of time and space between interactions with him and yourself. This is to give you protection from additional harm, and time to begin identifying what about an unavailable, perpetually dating, disrespectful and deceptive clown attracted you.
Because something in you responded to him. You didn’t respect yourself, your needs, or your happiness enough to leave him out of your life. If you haven’t followed along in NML’s Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl - you may find some answers and suggestions there. Others have faced this same crossroads, and accepted the need to change.
It takes time, time before you will be ready for another partner, time to heal, time to find yourself, to re-learn to respect yourself and your awareness of red flags and “reject this bozo” moments.
It isn’t about smart, or accomplishment. It is about knowing your emotions, and the you inside. Self-respect, self-awareness, and finding more joy in live. (I find joy is completely different from humor. Humor doesn’t exist without pain, humiliation, etc. Joy is the true foundation of happiness.)
Luck!
Brad K.’s last blog post..Don’t love harder.
cassie May 22nd, 2009, 12:34 am
Please tell me I’m not losing my mind. First let me say that I’m working on me. I know it is my fault I was with an EUM and stayed. I have self-esteem problems that I’m working on. I have acknowledged I have issues and have begun to work on them. Every time I take two steps forward I feel like he knocks me back one.
I still I have deal with my EUM because I lent him money. He is paying it back just not as fast I would like (not even once a month). That is what the fight was about today and why I feel like I’m losing my mind. He agreed to pay on the 15th +/-2 days. Well it is now the 21st and still no payment. I of course having been asking him when he is going to pay. Tomorrow. Tomorrow comes and goes. Nothing. One excuse was “had to work late. I forgot.” I’ve told him over and over that if you can’t make the payment on time just tell me. Common courtesy goes a